Document bB4NG20w4w4ZgM8Qrp7QkZDVy

JUL-11-03 1B:29 FROM = PWHD ^, raiucia unaik, et a1 vs. ACandS, Inc,, et al Theodore Brodie Volume One December 5,2000 173 I correct? 2 A. Basically. 3 Q, And you don't remember who told you it 4 wasn't something you needed to worry about? 5 A, Specifically, no. 6 Q, Did you attend any meetings of Regional 7 Contractor Associations? S A, Yes. 9 Q. When is the first time after -- strike 10 that, , 11 After 1962, what's the first time you 12 attended a Regional Contractor Association 13 meeting? 14 A. *62. 15 Q, Did you ever, as part of your 16 attendance at a Regional Contractor Association 17 meeting, discuss the potential relationship IS between asbestos exposure and lung disease? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Can you tell me the first time, the 21 date, the first time that was discussed? 22 A. It was in the late '60s. The late f60s 23 in my mind tend to run together, so I'm not 24 positive, but I would guess it was, oh, '68, 115 I associations were there? 2 A. Massachusetts would be part of the 3 region of the northeast 4 Q. So, you were travelling throughout the 5 country? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q, And Massachusetts fell within the 8 northeast region? 9 A At that time it was the New England 10 region. n Q. Who else was on the team making the 12 presentation? 13 MS. PETERSON; Objection. 14 A, A John Vyverburg representing Owens15 Corning, V-Y-V-E-R-B-U-R-G, Cliff Scheckler, 16 S-C-H-E-C-K4L-E-R representing Johns-ManvHIe, 17 and Jack Barnhart, B-A-R-N-H-A-R-T, representing 18 the Manufacturers Association. 19 Q. Was that NIMA? 20 A, NIMA 21 Q. Can you give me a summary of the 22 presentation that your team gave at these 23 regional contractor meetings? 24 A. Mr. Scheckler started the presentation 174 1 something like that, was the first. 2 Q. And do you recall what was discussed at 3 the Regional Contractor Association meetings 4 regarding asbestos exposure and lung disease? 5 A I was part of a team that was making a 6 presentation to the regional meeting on the 7 problems of asbestos and how to deal with it, how 8 to protect the workers' health, et cetera. 9 Q. For whom was this presentation being 10 addressed? 11 A. Whoever was in attendance, but it was 12 mostly the contractors and suppliers. 13 Q. And is this Regional Contractor 14 Association a regional group of the IDCNA? 15 A. Yes, it was. 16 Q, Did you make presentations to any other 17 contractor associations? 18 A Well, there were eight regional 19 associations. 20 Q. And were they different regional 21 associations or were they just different regions? 22 A. There was a different regional 23 association in each region. 24 Q. In Massachusetts, how many regional 176 1 by discussing the properties of asbestos and the 2 recommendations at that point from NIMA as to the 3 handling of asbestos and the reducing of dust. 4 pointing out that, like any dust, it was - any 5 dust can be dangerous and that asbestos should be 6 included as being treated with large 7 concentrations of dust and how to do that. 8 Mr. Vyverburg essentially followed up. 9 essentially not dealing with it with the 10 technical part, but with sort of a sales approach 11 to It And Jack Barnhart was sort of introducing 12 people rather than making a presentation, and 13 then I would follow with specifics from the point 14 of view of contractors and then handle the 15 questions from the floor, from the people 16 present 17 Q. Mr. Vyverburg's sales approach, was IS that intended as a way for the attendees to 19 address potential issues about asbestos exposure 20 raised by customers? 21 MS. BOYD; Objection. 22 MR, KIRBY: Objection. 23 . A No. 24 Q. Can you tell mp what you meant by Epriley Court Reporting JUL-1 1-03 15 = 30 FROM = PWHD Theodore Brodie ID = 7572432770 Pamela Ondik, et al vs' ACandS, Inc,, et al Volume One PAGE 3/17 December 5,2G( 177 1 ''sales approach"? 2 MS. BOYD; Objection. Relevance. 3 A. That properly handled, asbestos was a 4 safe material to deal with, and they pointed out 5 there are a lot of materials that are - were in 6 use at that point that were dangerous materials. 7 but could be safely handled if proper precautions 8 were taken* That's what I meant by more of a 9 general approach, rather than the technical 10 approach of Mr* Scheckler. 11 Q, Did the presentation inform the 12 attendees of a relationship between asbestos 13 exposure and lung disease or did it deal more 14 with pneumoconiosis-producing dusts? 15 MS. TAYYAB: Objection. 16 A. Pneumoconiosis-producing dusts* 17 Q. So, the presentation was aimed more at 18 the dusts than a particular dust particle or a 19 particular mineral such as asbestos? 20 A* No, they referred to the pneumoconiosis 21 dust, but it was in regard to asbestos* There 22 was no question that asbestos was being talked 23 about and the possible health -- negative health 24 effects if you didn't follow safe work practices. 179 1 Q. Okay. Did the pamphlet specifically 2 mention asbestos dust as something that should be 3 avoided or minimized? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. It didn't just refer to pneumoconiosis6 producing dusts? 7 A* No, it specifically stated asbestos* 8 Q. At the presentation, were the attendees 9 informed of a potential relationship between 10 mesothelioma and asbestos exposure? 11 A. From my memory, no* 12 Q, Were the attendees informed of a 13 potential relationship between asbestos exposure 14 and lung cancer? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And were the attendees informed of a 17 potential relationship between asbestos exposure IS and asbestosis? 19 A. Yes, 20 Q. Was threshold limit value discussed at 21 those presentations? 22 A* Yes. 23 Q. What was said in regard to threshold 24 limit value? 17$ 1 Q. Were recommendations made as to what 2 were safe work practices? 3 A* Yes, and handouts were given out. 4 Q. Can you tell me what recommendations 5 were made? 6 A. Applying the material in such a way 7 that dust was minimized; having the men wear 8 respirators, sort of discouraging the use of the 9 paper mask, but the use of the rubberized mask 10 with the filter; the way you would open a bag of 11 cement and pour it into a trough before you mixed 12 it, the mixing trough. All kinds of things that 13 would tend to limit dust and exposure* 14 Q. And what was contained in the pamphlet 15 that was handed out? 16 A. Essentially, they would bullet the 17 procedures that were being recommended by NJMA, 18 and the publisher of the pamphlet was NIMA* 19 Q. Do you have any copies of the pamphlets 20 that were handed out at those presentations? 21 A. At this time, no. 22 Q, When is the last time you've seen a 23 copy of the pamphlet? 24 A. Oh, goodness, I couldn't tell you. 180 1 A* I'm trying to remember if there was a 2 specific fiber count I don't believe there was. 3 I think they did it on the basis of the other 4 measurement procedure, which is milligrams per 5 Q. Cubic foot? 6 A* I think it's cubic foot 7 MR, KIRBY; Objection. S Q. When is the first time you heard of the 9 term threshold limit value or TLV? 10 A. Iu the mid to late'60s* I don't 11 remember the specific timing of which 12 conversation it might have been in* 13 Q. And the first time you heard of it was 14 in a conversation? 15 A I believe so* 16 Q, With whom were you conversing at the 17 time you heard it? 18 A As I said, I can't remember exactly who 19 it was or what the conversation was. 20 Q, Was this at one of the national 21 meetings you discussed earlier? 22 A I can't pin it down. 23 Q. Okay. What is your present 24 understanding ofTLV? TUL-1 1-03 15 = 30 FROM = PWHD Pamela Ondik, ei al vs* ACandS, Inc., et al Theodore Brodie Volume One December 5,2000 m 1 A, Threshold limit value? 2 Q. Yes. 3 A, It's the X usually refer to it in 4 terms of the fiber count. The number of fibers 5 that can be - that can be safely in the area 6 that could be ingested, breathed in, without 7 harming an individual, and exceeding that TLV 8 would be harmful to the individual 9 Q. Bo you know where the New England 10 Regional Contractor Association meeting'was held? 11 A. Generally at the - in Sturbrldge at 12 the Old Publick House. 13 Q. Do you recall how many persons attended 14 that meeting? 15 A. Normally somewhere around eight to 10 16 contractors. 17 MIL KIRBY: Objection. Move to strike. IS Q. Do you know the identity of any of the 19 contractors who attended that meeting? 20 A. At the time I knew them all. 21 Q. Do you recall today any of them? 22 A. By name Or by company? 23 Q. By company. 24 A. Johnson Asbestos, Cummings Insulation, m 1 after -- to the union. It was also after the 2 Selikoff presentation to the Association, so it 3 would have been the following year probably. 4 Q. Very good. New England Insulation was 5 a subscriber to Asbestos Worker Magazine; is that 6 correct? 7 A. You don't subscribe to it The union 8 automatically sends it to you. 9 Q. New England Insulation was a recipient 10 of the magazine? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. When did you first see a warning in the 13 Asbestos Worker Magazine regarding the potential 14 relationship between asbestos and lung disease? 15 A. A warning was probably about the same 16 time I was going around the country to the 17 regional. 18 Q. And Asbestos Worker Magazine, you said. 19 was automatically sent out by the union. It was 20 sent out to its membership, I take it? 21 A. To its membership and to all signatory 22 contractors. 23 Q. And was a signatory contractor someone 24 who agreed to a collective bargaining agreement . 182 1 P.S. Thorsen. At,ithat time it would have been 2 ACandS. Those are the primary companies. 3 * Q, Do you know if Eastern Refractories 4 attended that meeting? 5 MR. FELICE: Objection. 6 * A. You're right, they did. 7 MR. KIRBY: You know, Mike, Pm sony. S I missed that one. What was that one? Can 9 you read that back, Lorene. 10 (* Question and Answer read back) 11 Q. Was that NIMA pamphlet that you handed 12 out at the Regional Contractor Association 13 meetings distributed in any other capacity 14 outside the meeting? 15 MR. LAVOIE: To his knowledge? 16 MR. SHEPARD: Yes, always. 17 A. I don't know. 18 Q. Bo you know when NIMA put that document 19 together? 20 A_ As I say, the years in the mid to late .21 '60s, '65 through to about '69 and so on start 22 blending together, and so, X don't know the 23 specific date. It was -- I can go by the events. 24 It was after the Selikoff presentation. It was 184 1 through the union? 2 A. Who would sign a collective bargaining 3 agreement 4 Q. Did New England Insulation ever warn 5 Boston Edison about a potential relationship 6 between asbestos and lung disease? 7 A. No, we weren't working for them. 8 Q. Can you recall the first time New 9 England Insulation -- strike that 10 Can you recall the first time you saw a n warning on an asbestos-contaimng product? 12 A. Sometime in the late '60s, I think. 13 Q. Do you remember the name of the product 14 you first saw a warning on? 15 MS. TAYYAB: Objection. 16 A. Kaylo. 17 Q. Did New England Insulation ever test 18 any of the products that it sold or supplied or 19 provided pursuant to a contract for fiber 20 release, asbestos fiber release? 21 A, No. 22 Q. Did New England Insulation participate 23 in any studies regarding a potential relationship 24 between asbestos and lung disease? F.nnlpv ("!rnir+ T? JUL-1 1-03 15 = 32 FROM = PWHD Theodore Brodie ID = 7572432770 Pamela Ondik, et al vs. ACandS, Inc., et al Volume One PAGE 5/17 December 5,20C 185 1 A. Nope. 2 Q. Did New England Insulation ever conduct 3 any tests of its own facilities for the presence 4 of asbestos? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. When was the first time New England 7 Insulation tested its own facilities for the 8 presence of asbestos? 9 A. probably 1970. , 10 Q. What type of test was conducted? 11 A. Air monitoring and -- both individual 12 and space. Personnel monitoring and space 13 monitoring. 14 Q. Was this done at the Canton location? 15 A. That's correct. 16 Q, What were the results of that test? 17 A. We were well below TLVs. Again, it was 18 hardly measurable. 19 Q. Was this after you had removed all 20 asbestos-containing products from the premises? 21 A. I think this was during. 22 Q. Were the results of that test presented 23 to New England Insulation in a document of some 24 sort? IS7 l Canton. 2 Q, And was the dust precaution to keep 3 down dust from the Construction of the building? 4 A. No. 5 Q. What precautions were taken then? 6 A. We did some fabrication at the 7 facility, and I contacted Dr. Hardy, she 8 recommended an industrial hygienist in Quincy who 9 designed a dust control system for us for where 10 the saws were located, and sucked it out and put 1L it into a dust collector outside the building. 12 MR, KIRBY: Can we take a break? 13 MR. SHEPARD: Sure, 14 (Off the record, 3:24-3:43) 15 MR, SHEPARD: Back on the record 16 Q. The industrial hygienist that designed 17 the dust collector for the saws, what was that 18 person's name? 19 A, I don't remember. 20 Q. Was it a male or a female? 21 A. Male, 22 Q. And he was out of Quincy? 23 A. Yes, he was based out of Quincy. 24 Heavy-set man. 1 A. I'm sure we got a report from the lab. 2 Q. Do you recall the name of the lab that 3 did the work? 4 A. No. 5 Q, Do you have a copy of the report? 6 A. 1 don't personally, no. 7 Q. Do you know if your counsel has a copy S of the report? 9 A. No, he doesn't have it 10 Q. When is the last time you've seen a 11 copy of the report? 12 A. Probably 1970. 13 Q. Would that report potentially be 14 something that's kept in the document repository, 15 document storage? 16 A. If it's anywhere, that's where it will 17 be. IS Q. Did New England Insulation at any time 19 take precautions to keep down the amount of dust 20 in any of its facilities? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. When was the first time a precaution 23 was taken by New England Insulation? 24 A. As we were building the hew building in 188 1 Q. Do you know what his address was in 2 Quincy? 3 A. No.. 4 Q. Do you know what his business was 5- called? 6 A No. 7 Q. And this was in 1970 when the building 8 was being built? 9 A Yeah, I think he designed it in maybe 10 December of *69, it might have been the winter of 11 '70, and it was installed in the late spring of 12 '70. 13 Q, We've talked about Dr. SelikofFs 14 presentation at the Chicago meeting, but I 15 haven't asked you what he said. Can you tell me 16 briefly what the substance of Dr. SelikofFs 17 presentation was? 18 A The substance was he reported on the 19 statistical data that had been collected by . 20 Cuyler Hammond representing the American Cancer 21 Society and the participation of Local 22 and 12 22 of the Asbestos Workers in New York and New 23 : Jersey, and what the meaning of the - how they 24 brought the excess numbers of cancer, diagnosed I JUL-11-03 15=32 FROM = PWHD i wnoia querns., cl at vs. At-andS, lac., et al Theodore Brodie Volume One December 5,2000 189 1 cancers, in that cohort and why it was a good 2 cohort and so on. 3 1 don't remember him going into any of 4 the medical studies at that time. In fact, I 5 don't believe that there were that many medical 6 studies at that time, and then went into, 1*11 7 call it a harangue, about the fact that they S should never work without respirators and how bad 9 the suppliers or manufacturers of the material 10 were, and it was sort of a political , 11 pronouncement kind of thing, which in terms of 12 warning the men I think he felt would be 13 effective. 14 Q. What was the ultimate conclusion he 15 reached in that presentation regarding the 16 relationship with asbestos and lung disease? 17 A. That when using it, you should do it IS with care and as much protection as you could. 19 Q. Did he draw a causative relationship 20 between asbestos exposure and lung disease? 21 A, I believe he did. 22 Q. When masks or respirators were made 23 available to New England Insulation employees, 24 what, if anything, were the employees told about 191 . 1 your men; is that true? 2 A. Yes, that's correct. 3 Q, But in the beginning, you were just 4 warning them that there's a potential problem 5 here and you should be wearing masks? 6 A. I informed my superintendent and he 7 informed the men that it appeared that there was 8 a problem, we didn't know that there was a 9 problem, and that we would keep them advised of 10 whatever we were able to find out. n Q, Did New England Insulation employees 12 provide masks to any bystanders at any 13 construction site at which they were doing work? 14 By bystander, I mean -- 15 A. Not to my knowledge. 16 Q. And by bystander, any non-New England 17 Insulation employee? IS A. Not to my knowledge. 19 Q, Do you know if any New England 20 Insulation employees gave warnings or 21 instructions to persons present at jobsites at 22 which they were working that they should wear a 23 mask or respirator? 24 A. At what time? 190 1 their use? . 2 A* That it was possible and we had 3 information that asbestos could be or might be 4 harmful to their health, that there were some 5 reports that it could cause cancer of the lung, 6 and that we recommended that they use these 7 respirators, masks, whatever, and when applying S it, when you -- to reduce dust when you're 9 applying the product. 10 Q. Was this, all of this information, 11 given immediately following the first SelikofF 12 conference? 13 A. I wouldn't say immediately, no. I 14 relayed the information to the national 15 association, and as far as my own company was 16 concerned, discussed it with the -- our outside 17 superintendent, and he discussed it with the 18 foremen, and with varying degrees of success, we 19 alerted the men that there could be a problem and 20 that they should protect themselves. 21 Q. And if I understand your testimony 22 correctly, then, as you and your company learned 23 more about asbestos and its relationship with 24 lung disease, more information was passed down to 192 I Q, Let's start with when -- let's start 2 with 1965. 3 A. I would say no. 4 Q. Can you tell me when the first time is 5 that you believe that a New England Insulation 6 employee would instruct others at a jobsite that 7 they should be wearing masks? 8 A. 1 really couldn't say because I 9 wouldn't be there when they were doing it, so I 10 couldn't put a time on it 11 Q. Did New England Insulation instruct any 12 of its employees that they should be informing 13 non-New England Insulation employees at jobsites 14 about the hazards of asbestos or the requirement 15 that they should be wearing masks? 16 A* I don't know whether our superintendent 17 did or not . 18 Q. Was the death ofyour stepfather the 19 first occasion you had to ieam of a person 20 employed in the insulation business who died from 21 what you understood to be an asbestos-related 22 illness? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Did any New England InsuLation Eppley Court Reporting JUL-1 1-03 15 = 33 FROM = PWHD Theodore Brodie ID = 7572432770 Pamela Ondik, et al vs* ACandS, IncTJ et al Volume One PAGE 7/17 December 5,20( 193 195 1 employees complain about dust prior to 1962? 1 A. No. 2 A. Not to my knowledge. 3 Q. Okay. Prior to your warning the 2 Q, Did you inform Owens-Coming Fiberglas 3 that your father-in-law had an asbestos-related 4 employees about the hazards of dust, do you know 4 injury? 5 whether any New England Insulation employee ever 5 A. My father-in-law died at the age of 92 6 complained about dust? 6 and never had any asbestos injury. 7 A. Not to me. S Q. Do you know whether any complaints were 9 made to the outside supervisor or any of your 7 Q- Did your stepfather ever assert a claim S for an asbestos-related injury? 9 A. No. 10 employees, other employees? 10 Q. And do you know if you informed 11 A* I was not aware of any. 12 Q. What was the first workers' 11 Owens-Coming fiberglass that your stepfather had 12 an asbestos-related injury? 13 compensation claim, if any, filed against New 14 England Insulation regarding an asbestos or an 13 A Formally, I did not. 14 Q. Informally? .15 alleged asbestos-related injury? 16 A. 1 don't remember which one. 15 A. I might have mentioned it to local 1 16 people for Owens-Corning. 17 Q. Do you remember what year the first one IS would have been in? 17 Q. When you contacted representatives of IS Owens-Coming and Johns-Manville investigating a 19 A. No. 19 potential relationship between asbestos and 20 Q. Do you remember the decade? 20 health hazards, did they ask you why you were 21 A. 1 would say in the '70s at the 21 asking these questions? 22 earliest. It might have even been the '80s. 22 A No. 23 Q. Who is Frank Marlow? 23 Q. Did you give them any reason why you 24 A. Frank Marlow? Frank Marlow? 24 were investigating this potential relationship? 194 1 Q. UTh-huh. 2 A. It's not striking a bell. Help me. 3 Q, Did you have a brother-in-law? 4 A, Not that I know of. Wait a minute. I 5 have a brother-in-law, Carlos Auriema, who lives 6 in New York. 7 Q. Did he ever work for New England 8 Insulation? 9 A. He was the CEO of a hundred million 10 dollar company. 11 Q. Is that no? 12 A, That's no. 13 Q, So, you did not have a brother-in-law 14 that was diagnosed with asbestosis, then? 15 A Nos sir. 16 Q. Okay. Do you know if your father17 in-law ever, or any of your father-in-law's 18 estate representatives, ever asserted a claim 19 against anyone regarding his exposure to 20 asbestos? 21 A He did not 22 Q. Did you ever inform Owens-Coming 23 Fiberglas that you had a brother-in-law who had 24 an asbestos-related injury? 196 1 A Owens-Corning or Manville? 2 Q. Let's start with Owens-Coming. 3 A With Owens-Corning, when I inquired, I 4 told them that I had heard rumors of problems 5 with asbestos and I wanted more information 6 relative to it 7 Q. What was -- what, if anything, did you S tell Johns-Manville representatives regarding 9 your inquiry? 10 A, By the time I was talking to Manville* 11 I was doing it as a member of the board of 12 directors of IDCNA and further as the chairman of 13 the health and safety committee, so they knew why 14 I was asking. 15 Q. When did New England Insulation join 16 the IDCNA? 17 A. I believe it was *57. 18 Q, And is the IDCNA still in existence? 19 A After several name changes, yes, it is. 20 Q. What is its present name? 21 A. National Insulation Association, NIA 22 Q. What other names has it been known by? 23 A NICA, N-I-C-A 24 Q. What does that stand for? JUL-11-03 15 = 33 FROM = PWHD Pamela Gndik, et al vs. ACandS, Lnc., et al Theodore Brodie Volume One December 5,2000 197 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 IS 19 20 21 22 23 . 24 A. National Insulation Contractors Association. I lose trade There w ere two others, and 1 got disgusted and didn't even want to remember them. Q. Is New England Insulation presently a member of the National Insulation Association? A. We are. Q. Has New England Insulation been a member of what started out as the IDCNA and is now the NIA continuously since 1957? 1 A We have. Q, Has New England Insulation ever been a member of the Boston Insulation Contractors Association? A We have. Q. And when did New England Insulation join that association? A. 1935. It was a different name then. Q- What was it called then? A Asbestos Contractors of Boston, I believe. Q. Do you know when it changed its name to Boston Insulation Contractors Association? A Sometime in the '70s. 199 1 A. That is correct. 2 Q. And can you tell me when that 3 combination took place? 4 A. Only roughly. Probably in the late 5 '70s. 6 Q. And when did New England Insulation, if 7 ever, join the Northeast Insulation Contractors 8 Association? 9 A, When I formed it 10 Q. When did you form it? 11 A. Approximately late '60s. 12 Q. Did you also form the Mid Atlantic 13 Contractors Association? 14 A. No. Let me think the date of that 15 I'm trying to remember. Northeast Insulation was 16 formed in the early '60s. 17 Q. Was die Mid Atlantic Contractors 18 Association already operating at that time? 19 A. No. 20 Q, That was formed later? 21 A. I formed that in about the same time. 22 Q. So, you formed both the Northeast and 23 the Mid Atlantic Contractors Associations? 24 A. I aided in forming six of the eight 198 1 Q. And is New England Insulation presently 2 a member of the Boston Insulation Contractors 3 Association? 4 A. We are. 5 Q. Has New England Insulation been a 6 member ofwhat started out as the Asbestos 7 Contractors ofBoston and is now Boston 8 Insulation Contractors Association continuously 9 between 1935 and the present? 10 A. We have. a Q. Has New England Insulation ever been a 12 member ofthe Eastern Atlantic States Insulation 13 Association? 14 A We are. 15 Q. When did New England Insulation first 16 join that association? 17 A When they combined the Mid Atlantic IS Insulation Contractors Association with the 19 Northeast Insulation Contractors Association. 20 Q. So, is it your testimony that the 21 Northeast Insulation Contractors Association and 22 the Mid Atlantic Insulation Contractors 23 Association combined to form the Eastern Atlantic 24 States Insulation Association? 200 I regional associations. 2 Q. And these are regional - 3 A. Five of the eight I want to be 4 accurate. Five of the eight 5 Q. These are regional associations of the 6 IDCNA? ' 7 A That is correct 8 Q, Has New England Insulation ever 9 belonged to any other trade organizations? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Can you name them for me? 12 A National Association of Manufacturers, 13 Associated General Contractors, Mass. 14 Subcontractors Association or Subcontractors 15 Association ofMas&* Smaller Business 16 Association of New England, which is referred to 17 as SBANE, Sales Management Execs Club of Boston, IS which is a trade association, Associated 19 Industries of Mass. I think that's it 20 Q. Is New England Insulation presently a 21 member ofail of these organizations? 22 A I believe so. 23 Q. Can you tell me which, if any, of the 24 organizations you've j ust listed issued any JUL-1 1-03 15 = 34 FROM = PWHD Theodore Brodie ID = 7572432770 Pamela Onciik, et al vs. ACandS, Inc., et al Volume One PAGE 3/17 December 5,20C 201 1 warnings or information regarding the potential 2 health hazard associated with asbestos exposure? 3 MR. HUNT: Objection. 4 A. Most of them would have had no reason 5 to. 6 Q. Would the National Association of 7 Manufacturers have any reason to? S A, I don't know. 9 Q. What do they do? f 10 A. They're an association of 11 manufacturers. We're not a member of that now. 12 When Mr. Swanson -- he was the primary member 13 there, and when he retired, that ended that 14 membership. I'm not sure why he belonged to it, 15 but he did. They had a good meeting. 16 Q. Do you know what the association, the 17 manufacturers in that association, what industry IS they were in? 19 A. I believe they're throughout industry. 20 Q, Throughout industry. Did the 21 Association of General Contractors ever issue any 22 warnings Or information about potential health 23 hazards associated with asbestos? 24 MR, HUNT: Objection. 203 1 started it, which was -- I think he started it in 2 '54 or '55, so we would have become members iu 3 '56 or *57, somewhere in there. 4 Q. Did that association hold regular 5 meetings of any sort? 6 A. Still does. 7 Q. What type of business is conducted by 8 that association? 9 A. Normally they're looking at problems of 10 contract between subcontractors and general 11 contractors and negotiating with the state for 12 sub bid law. 13 Q. And does that association have any sort 14 of health and safety division or has it ever had? 15 A. No, it has no need to. It's not in its 16 charter. 17 Q. How long has New England Insulation 18 been a member of the Associated Industries of 19 Massachusetts? 20 A. 10 years, maybe. 21 Q, Does New England Insulation have 22 insurance available to pay any potential verdict 23 that might be rendered against it in the Ondik 24 case? 202 1 A. I don't know. ` 2 Q. Same question for the Mass. 3 Subcontractors Association? 4 MR HUNT: Objection. 5 A. Not to my knowledge. 6 Q. Same question for the Smaller Business 7 Association ofNew England, SBANE? S A. I would say no. 9 Q. Same questions for the Sales Management 10 Execs Club of Boston? 11 A- No. 12 Q. And same question for Associated 13 Industries ofMassachusetts? 14 A. Not to my knowledge. 15 Q. How long has New England Insulation 16 been a member of the Association of General 17 Contractors? , IS A. It's actually AF. Underhill I have 19 designated as the member. We've been a member of 20 AGC for -- probably since 1980. 21 Q. How long has New England Insulation 22 been a member of the Mass. Subcontractors 23 Association? 24 A. From about the time Joe Coreland 204 1 MR, RUSSELL: Objection. You can 2 answer. 3 A. I believe so. 4 Q. Can you tell me the name of the 5 insurance company that would provide that 6 coverage? 7 MR RUSSELL: Objection, 8 A. Well, there are a whole bunch of them. 9 but the primary one is Liberty Mutual. 10 Q. Are there any policy limits on the 11 various insurance policies covering the potential 12 for liability in this case? 13 MR RUSSELL: Objection. 14 A. There may be, but I'm not verse in it 15 right now to quote various insurance policies. 16 Q. Do you know if there's an aggregate 17 limit on asbestos claims that might be alleged 18 against New England Insulation? 19 MR RUSSELL: Objection. 20 A. There may be, but I*m not sure what it 21 is. 22 Q. Not sure what that is. Will you be in 23 the area, the Boston area, during the first three 24 weeks of January? JUL-11-03 15:35 FROM = PWHD ID = 7572432770 Pamela Ondik, et al vs. ACandS, Inc., et al Theodore Brodie Volume One PAGE 1 0/ December 5,2000 205 1 A. Probably not, if I can help it 2 Q. If you can help it, where would you be 3 during the first three weeks of January? 4 A, My wife and I haven't decided that yet. 5 Q. Are you intending on going to wanner 6 climates? 7 A. That's a safe assumption. S ** Q. Can you tell me the figure of net 9 profit for New England Insulation for the last 10 fiscal year? , 11 MR. RUSSELL: Objection. 12 A- The last fiscal year? 13 Q, Or the last year of your accounting 14 cycle. 15 MR, RUSSELL: I'm going to instruct the 16 witness not to answer that. I think it's 17 well beyond the scope of what this is all 18 about. 19 MR SHEPARD: Mark the question. We 20 may or may not come back to it. -21 (** Question marked) 22 MR SHEPARD: That's it for my 23 questions right now. I'ra going to look 24 through my notes while everyone else asks 207 - 1 all of the information that you have provided to 2 us would have -- about the knowledge of asbestos 3 as far as the trade association and New England 4 Insulation came after the '68 presentation by Dr. 5 Selikoff? 6 A. No. We discussed, because we had 7 information from the union, what Selikoff was 8 talking about Long before he made his 9 presentation. I would say about a year or two. 10 Q. So'67, then? 11 A. Say '67, something like that. 12 Q. And everything else -- 13 MR. SHEPARD: Objection. 14 Q, And everything else is after that? 15 A. "Everything" meaning what? 16 Q. Your presentation to the board about 17 health and safety, to the unions when you're 18 doing your next contract, that was after that? 19 A. No, I discussed with the board what was 20 coming up from the union. In fact, other board 21 members also were raising the question probably 22 in the '67, '66, '67 period because the studies 23 that have been done by Selikoff were obviously 24 before. They had done it with two of the unions, 206 1 questions. 2 MR FELlfcE: I have questions, but I'm 3 going to let others go while I form them. 4 5 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. KIRBY: 6 7 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Brodie. 8 A. Hi. 9 Q, My memory is a little faulty, but it 10 seems to me that I remember Dr. Selikoff first 11 published his concerns about asbestos in the New 12 York Annals of Science in 1964 and first 13 presented it in 1965. Would that comport with 14 your mernoiy? 15 A. I think so. 16 Q, And his next presentation was in 1968 17 to the asbestos Workers, Would that also comport 18 with your memory? 19 A* It would. 20 Q. And do you -- the presentation in 1968, 21 is that the Chicago meeting that you're referring 22 to? 23 A. Yes, 24 Q. Would I be accurate in then saying that 208 I and the union agents talked to other union 2 agents, so our agent here was raising questions. 3 The contractors all over the country were 4 starting to ask some questions, what's going on, 5 so that's when it went to the board, probably 6 '66, '67. It's vague in terms of my dates, but 7 it's in that range. S MR. KIRBY: Okay. It's amazing I have 9 to do this for my own question, but I move 10 to strike the latter portion of that answer 11 as being not responsive to my question. 12 MR. RUSSELL: Well, I move to strike 13 that. 14 MR. KIRBY: Pm just muttering to 15 myself. 16 MR. RUSSELL: Well, mutter softly. 17 MR KIRBY: I'm sure that Lorene didn't IS put that on the record. 19 MR. SHEPARD: Objection. 20 MR, RUSSELL: She's looking the other 21 way, so I don't know what that means. 22 Q. Mr. Brodie, when I ask you a question. 23 I would appreciate it if you would answer the 24 question I ask. If I want you to expand on your -----------------------------------------------______ _______________ Epolev Court R<w>rrin<* JUL-1 1-03 15 = 35 FROM = PWHD _ Theodore Brodie ID = 7572432770 Pamela Ondik, et al vs. ACandS, IncM et al Volume One PAGE 11/17 December 5,200 209 1 answer, I will certainly ask another question so 2 you can do that. 3 MR. RUSSELL: I object to your lecture. 4 MR. KIRBY: I'm not lecturing. I'm 5 just asking him to directly answer the 6 question. 7 Q. Now, do I understand you, sir, S correctly that when you say you worked at the New 9 Boston facility of the Boston Edison, you 10 differentiate that between the L Street facility; 11 is that correct? 12 A. Absolutely. 13 Q. Can you explain to me how you 14 differentiate that? 15 A, They were two separate buildings. 16 Q. Where were they located? 17 A, Off of L Street between -- well, I 18 guess you call it the east side of L Street, but 19 south of the Four Point - not Four Point, but 20 the channel that runs between there and the 21 Boston Army base. 22 Q. And, so, to the lay person, both of 23 them would look like L Street, but they were, in 24 fact, two separate locations? 1 quantities we're talking about? 211 2 A. Considerable. 3 Q. Are we talking about a pickup truck 4 load? 5 A. No, we're talking probably on the order 6 of four or five carloads. 7 Q. When you say "carloads," are you 8 referring to train carloads? 9 A. Train carloads. That's the way the 10 product was delivered. 11 Q, Did you use any other -- anybody ease's 12 product besides Owens-Coming's product at that 13 jobsite? 14 A Not on the base insulation. It was all 15 Owens-Coming. 16 Q, And the facilities were not operational 17 at the time you were working there; is that IS correct? 19 A That's correct. 20 Q. Do you know when the first unit came 21 on-line? 22 A I would say about a year after we 23 started work, which would have been probably *68, 24 '69, somewhere in there. 210 1 A. Before construction, all you would have 2 seen was L Street When construction started, 3 they built a separate building, but if you drove 4 by there today, it would appear to be -- yeah, it 5 would appear to be one structure. 6 Q. When you say the first time you did 7 work at New Boston, was this new construction or 8 repair? 9 A. New construction. 10 Q. Was the facility a secure facility, and 11 when I say a "secure facility," I mean a facility 12 that non-contractors could enter? 13 A. It was restricted solely to contractor 14 personnel. 15 Q. And would that prevent Boston Edison 16 personnel from entering? 17 A. That is correct. 18 Q. And if I understand your testimony 19 earlier, the product that you used there in 20 insulating the non-boiler pipelines was Kaylo? 21 A. That is correct 22 Q. And from whom did you obtain the Kaylo? 23 A. Owens-Coming. 24 Q. And can you tell me what type of 212 1 Q. And do you recall when the second unit 2 came on-line? 3 A. About 14,15 months after the first 4 unit 5 Q. And is it my understanding -- strike 6 that 7 So, that would have been -S A. Pm guessing at that. Pm trying to go 9 on my memory on that. 10 Q, So, we're talking about '69, 1970? 11 A. Yes. 12 MR. SHEPARD: Objection. 13 Q. Is that correct? 14 A. Yes, that's to the best of my knowledge 15 right now. 16 Q. And this is the first time that New 17 England Insulation had ever done any work with IS Boston Edison, to your knowledge? 19 A. That's correct 20 Q. And this certainly comes from your 21 personal knowledge, from 1956 to the present 22 time; is that right? 23 A. That's correct 24 Q. And would that be true of any Boston JUL-11-03 15=36 FROM = PWHD ID = 7572402770 Pamela ontUk, et al vs. ACandS, Inc., et al Theodore Brodie Volume One PAGE 1 December 5, 2000 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 . 24 213 Edison facility? A. That's correct. Q. So, when you talked about having purchased products from various entities on an ad hoc basis, none of these products were ever used at the Boston Edison facility by New England Insulation; is that correct? A. That's correct MR. SHEPARD: Objection- Q. And when you referred to purchasing or trading products manufactured by Baldwin Erhet Hill or Erhet with Hinman Associates, you were referring to a time period in the early 1950s; is that accurate? MR. SHEPARD: Objection. A. '50s and'60s. Erhet it would just have been in the '50s. Q. And then you became a purchaser of BEH products at some time in the late '50$, early '60s? A. No, we never purchased BEH direct. Q. You never purchased BEH direct? A. That's correct Q. Did you use BEH cement? 213 1 Q, Do you have any personal knowledge of 2 whom - from whom Hinman would have purchased 3 products? 4 A. By talking to the people at Hinman, 5 through that method, yes. 6 Q. Do you know if Hinman purchased all of 7 their products from one source or did they use 8 more than one source, from your personal 9 knowledge? 10 -A I couldn't say whether they got it from 11 one or from multiple. 12 Q. But it was your understanding that they 13 did purchase some products from General 14 Insulation? 15 MR. SHEPARD: Objection. 16 A. From who? 17 Q. General Insulation. 18 A. Hinman purchased from General? 19 Q. Correct. 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. You talked about Bird -- a Bird product 22 that went on pipes outside; is that correct? 23 A. That's correct. 24 Q, Did you ever purchase Bird products for 214 1 A. If we did, it was peripherally. 2 Q. From whom would you purchase your BEH 3 products? 4 A. Off the top of my head, I can't 5 remember. 6 * Q. And do you have any personal knowledge 7 of the corporate structure between Hinman and S General Insulation? 0 A. Can we go off the record for a minute? 10 I want to ask a question. 11 Q. If you want to clarify a previous 12 answer, please do. 13 A. Yes. Bid BEH make Powerhouse? I know 14 I bought Powerhouse, but I don't know who the 15 manufacturer was. Okay. 16 Q. Okay. All right. To be honest with 17 you, I thought you said BEH was the manufacturer 18 of Powerhouse earlier in your deposition, but I 19 don't know that that's right. 20 A. I'm just trying to make sure. 21 MR KIRBY: Lorene, would you read the 22 question back, please, 23 (* Question read back. Page 214) 24 A. I do not. 216 1 use at Boston Edison when you were doing the 2 contract at New Boston? 3 A. No, I did not 4 Q. And, therefore, you never purchased 5 Bird products for use at Boston Edison prior to 6 196S; is that correct? 7 MR. SHEPARD: Objection. 8 A. That's correct 9 Q. If that's when the contract started? 10 A. That's correct 11 Q. We haven't got an exact date of when 12 the contract started, do we? 13 A, Not in my mind. 14 Q. Do we have any records that might 15 reflect when that contract started? 16 A, They probably are existent in the 17 record storage area. 18 Q. Of New England Insulation? 19 A. Of New England Insulation in Canton. 20 Q. Do you know where you may have used 21 Bird products that you did purchase at any time? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q- Would that be at any Boston Edison 24 location? Ennlev P.rvnrt Rmnrrinff JUL-1 1-03 15 = 36 FROM = PWHD Theodore Brodie ID = 7572402770 Pamela Ondik, et'al vs, ACandS, Inc., et al Volume One PAGE 13/17 December 5,20( 217 1 A. No. 2 Q. Would that be at 3 A. Excuse me? At any time? 4 Q. From 1956 up to 1975, 5 A. No. 6 Q. Would that be at any Boston Naval 7 Shipyard facility? 8 A Did we work at any Boston Naval 9 Shipyard? 10 Q, And you used Bird product a A. No, we never worked there. 12 Q. Never worked there, okay. You 13 testified that you had purchased a number of 14 different products from Bird, and I believe you 15 indicated that the roofing paper that went on the 16 outside pipes, the pipes that were out to the 17 element, was a product that you understood later 18 had asbestos in it; is that correct? 19 A. That's correct 20 Q. Do you know if any of the other 21 products that you purchased from Bird contained 22 asbestos? 23 A. I think basically those are the 24 products that we used, the felt and the 35- and 219 1 Q. So, if you had testified that you had 2 information concerning the hazards of asbestos as 3 it relates to asbestosis in 1959, that would not 4 have been correct; that would have been a 5 misstatement of the date; is that right? 6 MR SHEPARD: Objection. 7 MR. RUSSELL: Objection. S A* No, I knew of the term asbestosis, as I 9 said, back when I was in high school. I heard 10 the term, and, you know, Til leave it there. 11 Q. But am I accurate -- ami restating 12 your testimony accurately that your first 13 knowledge of any health hazards associated with 14 asbestos, whether it be called asbestosis, lung 15 cancer, mesothelioma, or any other type of 16 disease that may or may not be related to 17 exposure to asbestos products was after your 18 stepfather died in '62? 19 MR. SHEPARD; Objection. 20 A. No, that was with regard to its effect 21 on cancer, not to any possible health hazards at 22 all. 23 Q. So, it is your testimony that you were 24 aware of health hazards related to breathing in 218 1 45-pound roofing paper. 2 Q, And was the 35- and 45-pound roofing 3 paper always used to cover pipes that were 4 outside? 5 A. Yes. There might have been a rare case 6 when it was used inside, but it would have been 7 very rare. 8 Q. Do you recall any particular time that 9 you put it on a pipe inside? 10 A, I can't. a Q. And from that question or answer, I 12 assume you cannot say that you put it on inside 13 at any particular location? 14 A. That's correct 15 MR. SHEPARD: Objection, 16 Q, I just want to make sure I have a 17 couple of other things accurate as well. It 18 seems my memory says that you first became aware 19 of the potential hazards from asbestos after your 20 stepfather died; is that correct? 21 A. That's correct 22 Q. And you didn't have any knowledge of 23 the hazards of asbestos prior to that? 24 A, I did not 220 1 asbestos dust prior to 1962? 2 A. I don't think I or the industry 3 considered it a health hazard. We were aware 4 that there was a term such as asbestosis, and we 5 were informed by our manufacturers that it wasn't 6 a problem with the kinds of work that we were 7 doing. 8 Q. And am I accurate in your testimony 9 that you made specific inquiries to manufacturers 10 prior to 1962 concerning the inhalation of 11 asbestos fibers by the workers that you employed? 12 A Relative to asbestosis, I believe I 13 mentioned It to them, yes. 14 Q, Do you have any documentation that 15 would indicate when you may have made these 16 inquiries? 17 A It was all verbal. 18 Q. Do you know if there are any records 19 that exist concerning the fozmation of the health 20 and safety committee of the IDCNA? Is that the 21 correct -- 22 A. Yes. It should be in the minutes of 23 the association. 24 Q, Where is the association located today? JUL-11-03 15=36 FROM = PWHD ID: 7572492770 Pamela Undik, et al vs. ACandS, Inc., et al Theodore Brodie Volume One PAGE 1 December 5,2000 221 1 A- Alexandria, Virginia. 2 Q. And what about the regional offices, do 3 they still exist today? 4 A. The regions still exist, yes. 5 Q. Do they have regional offices? 6 A. Most of them, I believe, do. 7 Q. And do you know if records are kept at 8 the regional offices or the headquarters? 9 A* I assume they were, I don't know. 10 Q. And is it my understanding that the 11 health and safety committee was established after 12 the first Selikoff report? 13 A, It was right around the time. Whether 14 it was immediately before or immediately after, I 15 don't recall 16 Q. So, if the first Selikoff report was 17 December 31,1965, it would be sometime after IS that? 19 MR. SHEPARD: Objection. 20 A. I think it was around the time when 21 t Selikoff made his presentation to the asbestos 22 workers. It was a year or two -- it was a year 23 either before or after that. I don't believe it 24 ; was related to his report We did not receive ^. 223 1 winter of -- more than likely the winter of 1966, 2 1967? 3 A. Somewhere in there, yes. 4 MR. SHEPARD: Objection. 5 Q. In preparation for your spring 1967 6 annual meeting?* 7 MR. SHEPARD: Objection. 8 A. It wouldn't be in preparation for it, 9 but it would have been before that, yes. 1 can 10 pin it down by saying it was just before the -- 11 Q. Chicago presentation? 12 A, No, before the Worlds Fair in Montreal. 13 It was a year before that 14 MR. LAVOIE: The Expo? 15 A. Whenever that was. 16 MR. LAVOIE: '67. 17 A. So that would make it '66, 1 IS MR. LAVOIE: You can't tie it to the 19 Red Sox? 20 Q. Did you hold " strike that. 21 Did you provide or give any 22 presentations to Local 6 as a result of forming 23 this health and safety committee? 24 A. Not to the membership, but to the 1 copies of that report 2 Q, So, I have here a copy of Dr. Irving 3 Selikoffs Address to the Delegates of the 4 Twenty-First Convention of die International 5 Association of Heat and Frost Insulators and 6 Asbestos Workers in Chicago, Illinois in 7 September of 1967, 8 A. Right so it probably would have been 9 sometime in '66, whenever our board of directors' 10 meeting would have been. 11 MR. SHEPARD: Can we get that marked? 12 MR, KIRBY: Sure. 13 14 (Exhibit 4, Dr. SelikofFs Address, 15 marked for identification) 16 17 Q. Do you recall when the board of 18. directors met? 19 A. Not specifically, but in that time 20 frame, I think the annual meeting was held in the 21 spring, but then there would have been a board 22 meeting sometime in the winter, so it's hard for 23 me to know exactly which board meeting it was. 24 Q. So7 either the board meeting of the 224 1 business agent and the negotiating team, yes. I 2 wouldn't call it a presentation. We had a 3 discussion. 4 Q, And was that the discussion you talked 5 about earlier when you suggested that the union 6 workers wear respirators and if they didn't wear 7 respirators and were reprimanded three times, 8 that they should be let go? 9 A. Right, and that occurred over a period 10 of probably two or three weeks during 11 negotiations at various times. 12 Q. So, this would have been in the 13 negotiations that took place in either 1967 or 14 1968, whenever the next contract period was up? 15 A. Right 16 Q. How long did you normally have a 17 contract period for? 18 A Usually two years. That was the usual. 19 That particular one, I don't know whether it was 20 a one year or a two year. 21 Q. Did you ever have contract periods for , 22 three or four years? 23 A We have lately, yes, three years. 24 Q. Did you ever communicate in writing as .. Eppley Court Reporting JUL-11-03 15=37 FROM=PWHD ID = 7572432770 PAGE 15/17 Theodore Brodie Pamela Ondik, et al vs. ACandS, Inc., et al Volume One December 5,20) 225 I a member of the health and safety committee to 2 the manufacturers concerning your concerns with 3 asbestos? 4 A. 1 don't recall having done so. 5 Q. Did you ever communicate in writing 6 with the locals that you were dealing with your 7 concerns of working with asbestos? a A. I don't believe so. 9 Q. Did you feel as if it was, appropriate 10 or -- strike that. 11 Were you of the opinion that you could 12 work with asbestos in a safe manner at that time? 13 A, I think we all were, yes. 14 Q. Were the contractors of the day looking 15 to assist the workers in maintaining their health 16 by using respirators and informing them of the 17 issues that were presented at the time? IS MR. SHEPARD: Objection, 19 A. Some were, some weren't 20 Q. It was certainly your intention to 21 assist the workers in providing a safe workplace; 22 is that correct? 23 A. That's correct 24 Q. And it was the intention of the 22* 1 A. The international would have sent the 2 recommendations to all of the locals, not just 3 Local 6. 4 Q. Well, would I be accurate in saying 5 that your day-to-day dealing with the asbestos 6 workers was through Local 6? 7 A. Our day-to-day dealings were, yes. S Day-to-day would be our own workmen. 9 Q. And if you wanted to disseminate 10 information, you would disseminate it through 11 your own workmen and the local of your area; is 12 that correct? 13 MR. SHEPARD: Objection. 14 A. That's correct. That's correct. 15 Q, And did you do that? 16 A. We did. 17 Q, And in your opinion, was it an 18 effective message to be sent out to the union? 19 A. We hoped it was, but I saw an awful lot 20 of guys smoking, so I assumed that it wasn't 21 Q. And just to throw my foot into my mouth 22 right here, what does smoking have to do with it? 23 A. It had become a suspect that they were 24 related because the original study done by E. 226 1 organization to provide a safe work area; is that 2 comect? . 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. And that was the puipose behind the 5 establishment of the safety committee; is that 6 right? 7 A. That's correct S Q. Do you know if the workers adopted all 9 of your recommendations? 10 A. Of my own knowledge? 11 Q. Yes. 12 A. Some did, some didn't. 13 Q, Did the union adopt all of your 14 recommendations? 15 A, Formally, I think we were in agreement 16 on the recommendations. 17 Q. When you say "formally" you think you IS were in agreement, what do you mean by that? 19 A. That we had extensive conversations 20 with the international officers and they had them 21 with us about methods and procedures to be 22 followed, and there was agreement on that. 23 Q. And did you also have those 24 conversations with Local 6? 22$ 1 Cuyier Hammond for the American Cancer Society 2 was to determine the hazards of smoking, period, 3 and they fell into the asbestos thing. 4 Q. So, was it your recommendation that the 5 workers who were working with the locals and 6 working with asbestos not smoke? 7 A. That would have been our 8 recommendation. Still is. 9 Q. Just so I make sure I understand what 10 you're saying. You're saying that would have ' 11 been your recommendation- My question is: Was 12 it your recommendation? 13 A Yes. 14 Q. And do you know if that was advocated 15 by the members or the officers of Local 6? 16 A. I don't believe they specifically 17 included smoking in their warnings. 18 Q. Do you know if the officers of Local 6 19 recommended or required their workers to use 20 respirators? 21 A. They recommended it 22 Q. It's your understanding that there was 23 no requirement? 24 A There was no requirement. JUL-1 1-03 15 = 37 FROM = PWHD ID = 7572432770 Pamela Gndik, et al vs. ACandS, Inc,, ei al Theodore Brodie Volume One PAGE 1 December 5, 2000 229 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 IS 19 20 21 22 23 . 24- Q, Did you require your own workers to use respirators? A. We made them available on their request. We did not make it a requirement. Q, Is it a requirement today? A. Nobody is installing asbestos today. Q. In the removal of asbestos? A. That none of them smoke? To my knowledge, they don't have a requirement to that effect, no. * Q. Does New England Insulation do any removal now of asbestos? A. We have never done removal. Q. Okay. After the work at New Boston, when was the next time you did any work for Boston Edison at any location? MR. SHEPARD: Objection, Asked and answered. MR. KIRBY: You can answer. A, I'm trying to remember. Mystic. Over at the Mystic Station, Mystic 7. New construction. Q. And do you know when that took place? A. That was in the mid to late '70s, I 231 1 annealed iron. 2 Q. Was that the wire that you had 3 described that you would wrap the pipecovering 4 with to attach it? 5 A. That would have been one of the uses of 6 it 7 Q. You never bought any electrical wire? 8 MR. SHEPARD: Objection. 9 A. No. 10 MR. SAH: Okay, That's it. Thank you. 11 12 (Whereupon, the deposition suspended 13 at4:52p,m.) 14 15 16 17 IS 19 20 21 , 22 23 24 ...... 230 1 believe. 2 Q. Did New England Insulation install any 3 asbestos-containing product when it was 4 performing its work at the Mystic Station, Mystic 5 7, for Boston Edison? 6 A. No, we did not .. 7 Q. I think I'm pretty much done. S MR. KIRBY: I don't have any other 9 questions. Thank you very much. 10 THE WITNESS: You're welcome. 11 MS. TAYYAB: Are we going to keep going 12 today? 13 MR. RUSSELL: Let's go off the record. 14 (Off the record, 4:43-4:51) 15 MR. SAH: Back on the record. 16 17 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. SAH: 18 19 Q. My name is Perrin Sah. Earlier you 20 testified that you guys purchased some wire from 21 American Steel & Wire; is that correct? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. What kind of wire was that? 24 A. A combination of copper wire and soft COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS Middlesex, . L LORENE R, EPPLEY, & Registered Professional Reporter and Notafy Public in and for the Commonwealth ofMassachusetts, do hereby certify that the foregoing deposition was taken before me On the Sm day ofDecember, 2000; That the witness named in the deposition. prior to being examined, was by me first duly sworn; That said deposition was taken before me at the rime and puce therein set forth, and was taken down by tne In shorthand and thereafter transcribed into typewriting under my direction and supervision; That said deposition 1$ a true record ofthe testimony given by the witness and ofall objections made at the time ofthe examination. I Anther certify that I am neither counsel for nor related to any party to said action, nOr in any way interested w the outcome thereof, IN WITNESS WHEREOF, l have subscribed my name and affixed my seal this 15th day of December, 2000. 232 . - Lorene R, Eppley, Notary Public in and tor the Commonwealth ofMassachusetts My Commission expires: May 26,2006 PLEASE NOTE: THE-FOREGOING CERTIFICATION OF THIS TRANSCRIPT DOES NOT APPLY TO ANY REPRODUCTION OF THE SAME SY ANY MEANS UNLESS UNDER THE DIRECT CONTROL AND/OR DIRECTION OF THE CERTIFYING REPORTER. FnnlftV Cfttirf T? pnrvrtino JUL-11-03 15 = 30 FROM = PWHD Theodore Brodie ID = 7572402770 Pamela Ondik, et al vs, ACandS* Inc,, et al Volume One PAGE 17/17 December 5, 20C December 15, 2000 John M, Resell, Jr., Esq. LAW OFFICE OF JOHN M. RUSSELL, JR. 66 Manomct Avenue Hull, MA 02045 Re: Pamela Gndik, et al Vs: ACandS, Inc., et al C.A. No.: 00-2463 ' Pear Attorney Russell: Enclosed herewith is a copy ofthe deposition transcript ofTHEODORE BRODIE (Volume One) taken on Tuesday, December 5,2000, in the above-captioned case. According to the Massachusetts Rules of Civil Procedure, the witness has 30 days to read and sign the deposition transcript. Please have the witness read and sign the signature page/ensta sheet. If the witness has not read and signed the original signature page within 30 days from the above date, it will be deemed signed. Please have the witness forward the signed signature page/cnata sheet to Attorney Michael Shepard so that he may attach same to the original deposition transcript. Thank you in advance for your cooperation in this matter. Sincerely, Lorene R. Eppley ec: All Counsel of Record. 233 SIGNATURE-ERRATA SHEET 235 1, THEODORE PRODIE, hereby certify under the pains and penalties of peq'uiy that I have read the foregoing transcript of my testimony and further certify that said transcript is a true and accurate record of my testimony (with the exception of the corrections, additions, and/or deletions noted below). PAGE LINE CORRECTION, ADDITION, OR DELETION Signed under the penalties of perjury this ___day of, 2000. THEODORE BRODIE 234 INSTRUCTIONS TO DEPONENT After reading this volume of your deposition, indicate any corrections or changes to your testimony and the reasons therefor on the Errata Sheet supplied to you, and sign it DO NOT MAKE MARKS OR NOTATIONS ON THE TRANSCRIPT VOLUME ITSELF! ERRATA SHEET HANDLING/DISTRIBUTION The original of the Errata Sheet has been delivered to Michael Shepard, Esq. When the Errata Sheet has been completed by the deponent and signed, a copy thereof should be delivered to each party of record and the ORIGINAL thereof delivered to John Russell, Esq., to whom the original deposition transcript was delivered. PLEASE REPLACE THIS PAGE OF THE TRANSCRIPT WITH THE COMPLETED AND SIGNED ERRATA SHEET WHEN YOU RECEIVE IT. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 236