Document Znq5X51jzyDMMV6xRDD2Z1m97

121 1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT CITY OF ST. LOUIS 2 STATE OF MISSOURI 3 JUDITH BECHTOLD, wife of/and 4 STEPHEN E. BECHTOLD, ELIZABETH 5 TAMEWITZ, as Personal 6 Representative of her deceased 7 husband, Kenneth F. Tamewitz, 8 KELLIE LEE TRISLER, as Personal 9 Representative of her deceased 10 mother, NINA TRISLER, PHYLLIS 11 GOODMAN, as Personal Representative 12 of her deceased husband, 13 CHARLES GOODMAN, JR., 14 15 Plaintiffs, Volume 2 16 17 vs NO. 922 00911 18 19 MONSANTO COMPANY and 20 WESTINGHOUSE ELECTRIC 21 CORPORATION, 22 23 Defendants. 24 Cont'd. Deposition of ROBERT EMMET KELLY, M.D. 25 Taken on June 6, 1994 121 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009432 1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT CITY OF ST. LOUIS 2 STATE OF MISSOURI 3 4 JUDITH BECHTOLD, wife of/and 5 STEPHEN E. BECHTOLD, ELIZABETH 6 TAMEWITZ, as Personal 7 Representative of her deceased 8 husband, Kenneth F. Tamewitz, 9 KELLIE LEE TRISLER, as Personal 10 Representative of her deceased 11 mother, NINA TRISLER, PHYLLIS 12 GOODMAN, as Personal Representative 13 of her deceased husband, 14 CHARLES GOODMAN, JR., 15 16 Plaintiffs, Volume 2 17 18 vs NO. 922 00911 19 20 MONSANTO COMPANY and 21 WESTINGHOUSE ELECTRIC 22 CORPORATION, 23 24 Defendants. 122 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009433 1 Continued Deposition of ROBERT EMMET 2 KELLY, M.D., taken on behalf of the 3 Plaintiffs, at the law offices of Husch & 4 Eppenberger, 100 North Broadway, Suite 1300, 5 in the City of St. Louis, State of Missouri, 6 on the 6th day of June, 1994, before Victoria 7 L. Wilson, Registered Professional Reporter 8 and Notary Public. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 123 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009434 1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: 2 3 FOR THE PLAINTIFFS: 4 MR. C. JOSEPH MURRAY 5 MR. JOSEPH A. RACE 6 MURRAY LAW FIRM 7 909 Poydras Street, Suite 2550 8 New Orleans, LA 70112 9 10 FOR THE DEFENDANT MONSANTO COMPANY: 11 MS. CAROL RUTTER 12 Husch & Eppenberger 13 100 North Broadway, Suite 1300 14 St. Louis, Missouri 63102 15 16 FOR THE DEFENDANT WESTINGHOUSE ELECTRIC: 17 MR. RICHARD A. WUNDERLICH 18 Lewis, Rice & Fingersh 19 8182 Maryland Avenue, Suite 400 20 St. Louis, Missouri 63105 21 22 23 24 124 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009435 Examination by Mr. Race Examination by Ms. Rutter EXHIBITS (None marked) PAGE 126 218 125 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009436 1 ROBERT EMMET KELLY, M.D., 2 of lawful age, having been first duly sworn to 3 testify the truth, the whole truth, and 4 nothing but the truth in the case aforesaid, 5 deposes and says in reply to oral 6 interrogatories propounded as follows, to wit: 7 EXAMINATION 8 QUESTIONS BY MR. RACE: 9 Q Okay. Dr. Kelly, you are still under 10 oath and this is a continuation of the 11 deposition we had taken last week. You 12 understand that? 13 A Fine. 14 Q I have gone over the deposition and I 15 don't want to repeat any questions and I will 16 try to avoid anything that we have gone into 17 before. I did look at it for that purpose and 18 if I do mention something or ask you questions 19 about something you previously answered, I 20 apologize; it is not my intention, okay? 21 A Yes, sir. 22 Q Okay. Dr. Kelly, if there were 23 medical problems at any of the production 24 facilities of Monsanto, you would be an 25 individual informed; is that correct? 126 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009437 1 A Yes, sir. It depends if it is a 2 self limiting thing but, yes, if there were 3 any serious medical problems. If a man had a 4 slight burn or something on his hand, I 5 wouldn't. 6 Q However, if there were anyoutbreaks 7 of chloracne, for example, you would be 8 informed? 9 A Oh, yes, I would. 10 Q Do you know of any problems which 11 occurred at the Sauget plant in Illinois in 12 the fifties or sixties? 13 A With PCB's? 14 Q Yes . 15 A No, sir. 16 Q Was there any outbreaks ofchloracne 17 at the Sauget plant that you were aware of? 18 A With PCB's? 19 Q With any chemical? 20 A Yes, we manufactured24D and we 21 manufactured 245T. 22 Q What is 245D? 23 A 24 it is 24D was an ingredient in 24 agent orange. It is a weed killer. And 245T 25 is a brush killer. 127 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009438 1 Q Okay. And 2 A They were not outbreaks. Did you say 3 "outbreaks"? 4 Q Were there any cases? 5 A Yes, there was an occasional case, 6 yes, sir. 7 Q Were any PCB's manufactured at the 8 Sauget plant? 9 A Yes, there were. 10 Q Okay. Do you have any means of 11 determining whether or not the chloracne noted 12 at Sauget was attributed to PCB or the 24D or 13 the 245T? 14 A It was not attributed to PCB's as far 15 as I know. In fact, it wasn't. It was in the 16 24D department and 245T department. These men 17 were not working in both departments. 18 Q How many cases of chloracne were 19 there? 20 A Gosh, I can't answer with less 21 than half a dozen. Less than half a dozen. 22 Q And did you definitively determine 23 that these individuals were not exposed to 24 PCB's in the work place? 25 A Yes, sir. 128 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009439 1 Q And that is by department? 2 A That's correct. 3 Q Did you determine whether or not the 4 PCB's that were manufactured there could have 5 been airborne and have come in contact with 6 the individuals even if they weren't working 7 in the specific PCB department? 8 A Yes, sir. There was no possibility 9 of them being airborne. I don't know that 10 I don't remember the geographical relationship 11 of the departments but they were physically 12 separated considerably. 13 Q Okay. The 24D and the 245T compounds 14 are generically referred to as what? 15 MS. RUTTER: Objection to the 16 confusing form of the question. 17 Q Subject to the objection, can you 18 answer that? 19 A Generically? 20 Q Well, Doctor, it is quite simple. I 21 don't want to keep saying, "24D and 245T." 22 What would I refer to them as? 23 A Herbicides. 24 Q Okay. Thank you very much. So the 25 herbicides, in your opinion, cause and the 129 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009440 1 herbicides are also referred to these 2 particular herbicides are referred to as 3 dioxins, correct? 4 A Beg your pardon? 5 Q These are dioxins; is that correct? 6 A They are not dioxins. They could 7 have had dioxin as an ingredient as a 8 contaminant in them. 9 Q So it could have been the dioxin in 10 the herbicides which caused the chloracne? 11 MS. RUTTER: Objection, calls for 12 speculation and conjecture and you are far 13 afield from your corporate designation list. 14 Q Subject, can you answer that? 15 A What was the question? 16 Q It could be the dioxins that caused 17 the chloracne? 18 A It could. It is possible. 19 Q What is the component in PCB's that 20 cause chloracne? 21 MS. RUTTER: When? 22 Q At any time. 23 MS. RUTTER: Well, he has testified 24 that there wasn't any chloracne at Monsanto. 25 Q Was there any chloracne noted in 130 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009441 1 conjunction with any PCB manufacturing 2 process? 3 A Not by Monsanto. 4 Q But by anybody? 5 A By Swan there was one episode that 6 was never determined what the compound was 7 that caused that. 8 Q Was it also not true that there was 9 chloracne as noted outbreaks in chloracne 10 as noted in the Mission report of 1954? 11 A I can't hear you. 12 Q The Mission report published in 1954, 13 are you familiar with that? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Did Mission not report several cases 16 of chloracne? 17 A Yes, they did. 18 Q And the cases that Mission reported 19 of chloracne were in association with PCB's? 20 A They were associated with a non 21 dielectric PCB. 22 Q So the question is there were cases 23 in which PCB's were associated with 24 chloracne. 25 A Yes, sir, there were. 131 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009442 1 Q Okay. Swan was one; is that correct? 2 A That's correct. 3 Q And as noted by Mission, there were 4 others that occurred in the fifties, correct? 5 A Correct. 6 Q Okay. Now, do you know of any other 7 substance other than PCB's and dioxins 8 strike that. 9 Do you know of any substance other 10 than PCB' s which caused chloracne? 11 A Yes. 12 Q What is that? 13 A Chlorinated naphthalene, 14 pentachlorphenyl. There may be others but 15 those are the two that come to mind. 16 Q Chlorinated naphthalene? 17 A Right. 18 Q And chlorinated 19 A Pentachlorphenyl. 20 Q Are these both chemicals which 21 Monsanto produces? 22 A They do not produce chlorinated 23 naphthalene. I do not know if they still 24 produce pentachlorphenyl but they did for a 25 while. 132 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009443 1 Q Did they ever produce chlorinated 2 naphthalene? 3 A No, sir. 4 Q Chlorinated naphthalene is the same 5 family of PCB; in other words, it is a 6 chlorinated aromatic hydrocarbon, correct? 7 A That's a big family though. 8 Q But it is part of the same family? 9 A Well, it all depends on what you mean 10 by "family." 11 Q Well, we have got seven kids in our 12 family. It is a big family. We are Catholic 13 and we call it a big family. They are all a 14 member of the big family, correct? 15 A Well, not exactly because what you 16 mean what you may interpret as a big 17 family, I don't because I don't think there is 18 that close a relationship between the 19 chlorinated naphthalene and a chlorinated 20 biphenyl. 21 Q They both are classified as 22 chlorinated naphthalenes and 23 polychlorinated biphenyls are classified as 24 chlorinated aromatic hydrocarbons, correct? 25 A Yes, sir. 133 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009444 1 Q Thank you. In the outbreak of 2 chloracne at Swan in the thirties, was it ever 3 determined the source or the cause of that 4 chloracne outbreak? 5 A No, sir. The specific actual 6 chemical that caused it was not determined. 7 It was determined that it was a contaminant of 8 the benzol they used for several rugs. They 9 had no chloracne before they used this benzene 10 from this one supplier. They went to another 11 supplier, they got a benzene and they got 12 chloracne after several months, stopped the 13 second supplier and went back to their old 14 supplier. 15 Q So they had placed chlorinated 16 benzenes 17 MS. RUTTER: Counsel, I object. You 18 interrupted him. 19 MR. RACE: I apologize. I 20 apologize. Rightly so. 21 Q Do you have anything else to say? 22 A I said when they went back to their 23 regular supplier, they had no more chloracne 24 and Monsanto did not have any chloracne in 25 their PCB workers from 1936 to '74 when I 134 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009445 1 left. 2 Q Okay. So it was determined or 3 thought that the chlorinated benzene had a 4 role in causing the chloracne; is that a fair 5 statement? 6 A That's correct. 7 Q Is it also not true that chlorinated 8 benzene can, under proper conditions, produce 9 dioxin? 10 A Yes, sir. 11 Q Is it also true that chlorinated 12 benzene is mixed with PCB's in the compound 13 known as Inerteen PPO; is that not true? 14 A Yes, sir. 15 Q And it is Monsanto that mixes the 16 chlorinated benzene with the PCB's in 17 manufacturing Inerteen PPO, correct? 18 MS. RUTTER: Objection to the vague 19 form of the question. Give him a time period, 20 please, and a customer. 21 Q At any time, any customer. 22 A At some particular time but it was 23 not an extensive part of their PCB production. 24 Q Okay. It was done but to a limited 25 extent? 135 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009446 1 A Beg your pardon? 2 Q It was mixed but to a limited extent? 3 A That's correct. 4 Q Okay. Now, let me just ask you two 5 quick questions and we will then move on to 6 something else. The chlorinated naphthalene, 7 does that in and of itself produce chloracne 8 or is it a contaminant in the chlorinated 9 naphthalene such as a possible dioxin? 10 A I can't answer that. I don't know. 11 We did not manufacture it. We did not I 12 don't recall whether a specific contaminant 13 was caused but chloracne has been known with 14 chlorinated naphthalene since the turn of the 15 century. 16 Q With respect to the chlorinated 17 pet 18 A Pentachlorphenyl. 19 Q pentachlorphenyl. Thank you. 20 With respect to the chlorinated 21 pentachlorphenyl, is it thought that that 22 substance in and of itself produced chloracne 23 or is it a contaminant in that substance? 24 A I don't think that's been resolved. 25 I don't know. 136 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009447 1 Q Now, you produced today several 2 warnings were produced. As you previously 3 testified, it was a part of your function as 4 medical director to draft the appropriate 5 warnings, correct? 6 A That's correct. 7 Q Okay. As medical director, was it 8 part of your function to ensure that the 9 warnings were disseminated to customers and 10 end users? 11 MS. RUTTER: Objection to the form of 12 the question in that it contains a legal term 13 of art that's not defined, "end users." 14 Q Subject to the objection, can you 15 A I didn't even hear the objection. 16 MS. RUTTER: My objection was that I 17 objected to the form as containing an 18 undefined legal term of art, quote, "end 19 users," close quote, but you may answer the 20 question subject to the objection. I will ask 21 the court reporter to repeat the question. 22 Q Are you hearing me okay? 23 A At times. Not as well as last week. 24 Q Okay. I will try to project a little 25 bit better. 137 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009448 1 A Thank you. 2 (The requested portion of the record read 3 by the reporter) 4 A Usually disseminating bulletins was a 5 function of the marketing department. The 6 medical department would answer any questions 7 that came to us from customers when they 8 inaugurated the question. We did not the 9 medical department did not send out the 10 bulletins routinely to every customer. It 11 went with the marketing and with the billing 12 people and other departments of Monsanto 13 rather than the medical department. 14 Q Okay. So would it be a fair 15 statement that you would draft the warning and 16 bulletins and the marketing department would 17 ensure where these bulletins were placed on 18 the products and to whom the bulletins and 19 warnings were forwarded? Is that correct? 20 A Well, except labels, obviously, were 21 placed by the labeling committee and the 22 labeling people. 23 Q Okay. 24 A The bulletins, it all depends on what 25 the proposed use of the product was. It could 138 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009449 1 be by development people, could be by research 2 people or ultimately it could be by the 3 marketing people. 4 Q Okay. When you drafted a warning, 5 was it your intention that the users of the 6 product would read your warning? 7 A Would they heed it? 8 Q Read. 9 A Read it, yes. 10 Q Okay. So it was your intention that 11 they would by some means receive that warning, 12 correct? 13 A Yes, sir. 14 Q In conjunction with the warnings 15 program, did you ever recommend to any 16 customer to institute a training program with 17 respect to the handling of PCB's? 18 A No, sir, I did not. 19 Q Okay. Did anyone from Monsanto to 20 your knowledge make recommendations of 21 training programs in the safe handling of 22 PCB's? 23 A Well, I don't know what you did mean 24 by a "training program." Obviously they did 25 the right thing because they didn't have any 139 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009450 1 problems. 2 Q That's not my question. Could you 3 listen to my question, please? 4 A Well, yes, but I don't know what you 5 mean by a "training program." 6 Q Okay. Did you institute any types of 7 training programs for the handling of 8 chemicals? 9 A No, sir. 10 MS. RUTTER: You are talking about to 11 customers as opposed to internally at 12 Monsanto? 13 A Oh, internal? 14 Q Yes. 15 A Well, we had safety meetings and that 16 was a function of the production department. 17 Q Did you inform the production 18 department of what should take place at those 19 safety meetings? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Okay. So you had input into training 22 with respect to safe handling of chemicals, in 23 general, PCB's, in specific, at Monsanto, 24 correct? 25 A I want to get this straight. What 140 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009451 was it? Q Let me break the question down. You informed the production personnel at Monsanto of topics that should be covered during the safety meetings, correct? A That's correct. Q And those topics included the safe handling of PCB's, correct? A Yes, sir. Q Okay. And that information was necessary to ensure that the employees handled PCB's in a manner in which they would not result in harm, correct? MS. RUTTER: Objection to the overbroad and vague form of the question. You may answer. A I have lost it, the thrust of the question MR. RACE: Could you read it back, please? (The requested portion of the record read by the reporter) A That's correct. Q However, you never recommended a training program similar to that which was 141 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009452 1 conducted at Monsanto to any customer 2 purchasing PCB's; is that correct? 3 A I did not recommend a training 4 program. I recommended what should be done to 5 avoid problems and the two simple things that 6 had to be done was avoid repeated or 7 continuous skin contact and, number two, don't 8 breathe at elevated temperatures or in 9 confined spaces. 10 Q Okay. Now, those were the two golden 11 rules of PCB's, correct? 12 A That's correct. 13 Q Doctor, what does "repeated" mean? 14 A More than once. 15 Q Okay. So, in other words, to avoid 16 repeated contact means strike that. 17 So what you were telling the customer 18 was do not come in contact with PCB's twice? 19 A No, that isn't what I said. Repeated 20 can be from once to a thousand times. 21 Q Okay. So are you telling the 22 customer that once is okay? 23 A No, I am not telling them once is 24 okay but I am also not saying that if you get 25 a spoonful on yourself, you should immediately 142 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009453 1 take you should immediately take a shower. 2 Q Well, that's fine. You have 3 explained that to me now. How was that 4 conveyed to the customer? 5 A Well, I give the customer, the worker 6 of the customer and the management of the 7 company of the customer credit for 8 intelligence. If you tell them, "Don't get it 9 on your skin," they see that and that's it. 10 Q But you didn't say, "Don't get it on 11 your skin," did you? 12 A I said, "Avoid repeated or continuous 13 skin contact." 14 Q Now, moving on with the warnings 15 issue, did you convey to the customer what 16 should be done in the event there was repeated 17 skin contact? 18 A Well, I think "avoid repeated or 19 continuous skin contact" is conveyed to the 20 customer that he should now allow repeated 21 skin contact. 22 Q No, the question is did you explain 23 to the customer what should be done if, in 24 fact, there was repeated skin contact? 25 A I tried to recollect how in some 143 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009454 1 cases I actually did tell the customer what 2 not to do if it got on you wipe it off, 3 wash yourself; if the coverall is soaked, get 4 rid of it but as far as telling a customer 5 how he should avoid repeated or continuous 6 skin contact was not feasible because I did 7 not know how the man was using it. 8 Q Let's talk about how the man was 9 using it. If there was a continuous violation 10 of your warnings to avoid repeated contact and 11 inhalation of vapors at elevated temperatures, 12 what actions, did you, as the medical director 13 of Monsanto, recommend? 14 A Well, in the first place, there 15 wasn't any repeated or continuous skin 16 contact. There wasn't enough. If there was 17 enough, it was not sufficient if there was 18 such contact, it was not sufficient to cause 19 any health effects. This is not my statement, 20 this is put out by Kemper of the U.S. EPA or 21 wherever she is where she said with the 22 exception of an occasional case of chloracne, 23 there were no health problems in the 24 industrial workers using PCB. That was a 25 statement in 1987 and that was my belief all 144 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009455 1 the time up until 1974. 2 Q Okay. Let me ask my question again. 3 If there were repeated contact, did Monsanto 4 have a policy as to what would be done? 5 MS. RUTTER: With Monsanto workers? 6 Q Yes, let's start with Monsanto. 7 A Are we talking about Monsanto 8 workers? 9 Q Yes. 10 A I thought we were talking about 11 customers. 12 Q Well, let's talk about Monsanto now. 13 A Okay. Let's talk about them. 14 THE WITNESS: What did he ask me 15 about Monsanto? 16 Q Let me ask you the question again. 17 In a Monsanto facility if there was repeated 18 skin contact or inhalation, what was 19 Monsanto's policy? 20 A We would stop it. We would stop such 21 contact 22 Q Okay. 23 A of the worker to avoid repeated 24 skin contact. 25 Q Okay. And if a worker had been 145 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009456 1 exposed to substantial skin contact, repeated 2 skin contact or inhalation for an extended 3 period of time, would you recommend any 4 medical examination or monitoring of Monsanto 5 employees? 6 A No, sir, we did not because we 7 considered that chloracne was the hallmark of 8 injury from PCB. 9 Q So, in other words, you considered 10 that there would be no other that there 11 would be no other injury strike that. 12 It is your position that there will 13 be no systemic injury unless chloracne is 14 first observed; is that correct? 15 A With the exception of acute 16 episodes. If a worker, as I explained, the 17 three or four cases where workers were using 18 functional fluids, PCB's, not electrical uses, 19 had leaking operations and developed after 20 three days an acute episode of epiglottitis 21 would occur and chloracne would not occur 22 until later but if you were looking for 23 problems of repeated skin contact, it was my 24 belief that the first warning sign would be 25 chloracne. 146 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009457 1 Q Okay. What about if there was 2 inhalation but no skin contact? 3 A With the exception of the acute 4 episodes that I had mentioned in the course of 5 this deposition, I believe, where people 6 inhaled for three days PCB's at a heat 7 transfer operation at elevated temperatures, 8 they developed a chemical hepatitis without 9 chloracne because it takes some time for 10 chloracne to develop. 11 Q Now, the question is did Monsanto 12 have a policy if there was exposure to PCB's 13 in violation of your two golden rules? 14 MS. RUTTER: At Monsanto? 15 Q At Monsanto. 16 A Not to my knowledge they did not. 17 Q Okay. And so, therefore, you made no 18 recommendations to any customers as to what 19 should strike that. 20 Accordingly, you made no 21 recommendations to your customers with respect 22 to what actions should be taken if their 23 workers were exposed to PCB's, correct? 24 MS. RUTTER: Objection to the form of 25 the question. Please have her read it back. 147 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009458 1 Listen carefully to the question and you may 2 answer it. 3 (The requested portion of the record read 4 by the reporter) 5 A Are we back at customers now? 6 Q Right, customers. 7 A Well, we told them to avoid to 8 avoid such operations. We did not know how 9 the customer was using them, the material. 10 Q Okay. So the question is you did not 11 inform your customer what actions, medical 12 actions or otherwise, should be taken if the 13 employee failed to avoid contact with PCB's? 14 MS. RUTTER: Objection, 15 mischaracterizes prior testimony. 16 MR. RACE: Well, he can agree or 17 disagree. 18 Q Do you agree or disagree? 19 Could you read it back? I think that 20 would be necessary. 21 (The requested portion of the record read 22 by the reporter) 23 A We told them how to prevent any 24 problem with PCB's, if that is what you mean 25 by "action." We told them on our labels and 148 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009459 1 on our bulletins what to do to avoid it. If 2 your question related to what happens after 3 the person gets exposed, we did not know how 4 the man was being exposed in the customers' 5 plants so we were not in a position to avoid 6 them to give them specific statements of 7 how to avoid such exposure. 8 Q I'm not talking about avoiding 9 exposure, I'm talking about after the fact, 10 after the exposure occurs, in the event that 11 the worker is exposed to repeated skin 12 contact, were there any medical advices given 13 by Monsanto to its customers as to the 14 appropriate course of action? 15 A Well, when we tell the person to 16 avoid skin contact or breathing the material, 17 that appears to me to be the type of action. 18 We did not know the manner in which this man 19 was exposed. We had not been in the 20 customer's plant. We did not know what 21 procedures were being carried out with PCB's 22 during manufacturing. 23 Q Now, you say you have not been in 24 these plants? 25 A Beg your pardon? 149 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009460 1 Q Monsanto has not been in these 2 plants; is that what you are telling me? 3 A I'm telling you the medical 4 department has not been in these plants. 5 Q Okay. Do you know whether any 6 department from Monsanto had inspected the 7 plants of customers to whom PCB's were sold? 8 MS. RUTTER: Objection to the use of 9 the term "inspected." I think it is leading 10 and misleading. 11 Q Subject to the objection 12 A What did you say? Subject to what 13 the objection? 14 Q Subject to the objection, you may 15 answer. 16 MS. RUTTER: You may answer the 17 question. Do you need to have it read back? 18 A I know Papageorge went to some of the 19 plants. 20 Q Papageorge went to some of the 21 plants. Do you know the reason why he went to 22 some of the plants? 23 A No, sir. 24 Q Do you know whether Monsanto had a 25 policy to inspect or observe the operations of 150 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009461 1 customers of PCB's in order to ensure that 2 they were properly handled? 3 MS. RUTTER: Counsel, this witness is 4 not designated on that topic. Mr. William B. 5 Papageorge is designated on that topic and you 6 are 7 MR. RACE: I want to point out what 8 the medical department was informed by 9 Mr. Papageorge. 10 MS. RUTTER: That's not what you are 11 asking. 12 MR. RACE: Inspections and knowledge 13 of Monsanto's inspection of Westinghouse's 14 facility, Monsanto's appreciation of safety 15 procedures instituted at Westinghouse and if 16 any infractions by Westinghouse with respect 17 to recommended safety procedures. 18 MS. RUTTER: Those are two topics on 19 your list, they are topic numbers 10 and 11, 20 and W. B. Papageorge is designated on those 21 topics, not this witness. 22 MR. RACE: So it is your position 23 that this witness as medical director has no 24 knowledge and will not testify and 25 Mr. Papageorge has knowledge and will testify 151 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009462 1 as to the medical department? 2 MS. RUTTER: This doesn't ask about 3 the medical department, it asks about visits 4 to the Bloomington plant which, as you well 5 know, Mr. Papageorge is the one who visited 6 the Bloomington plant, not Dr. Kelly. 7 MR. RACE: Monsanto's appreciation of 8 the safety procedures. This is the individual 9 that lays down the safety procedures. 10 MS. RUTTER: Well, then talk to him 11 about his discussions with the Westinghouse 12 medical director. Dr. Kelly has told you he 13 was not personally in the plants. 14 MR. RACE: I want to know about his 15 discussions with Mr. Papageorge. 16 MS. RUTTER: I'm not telling you you 17 can't ask about that. You were asking him an 18 entirely different group of questions. 19 MR. RACE: Well, then let me change 20 it. I'm sorry. That's fine. 21 Q Did you have any discussions with 22 Mr. Papageorge regarding his inspections of 23 Westinghouse facilities? 24 MS. RUTTER: I object to the use of 25 the word "inspections." I believe that is a 152 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009463 1 misleading term and 2 MR. RACE: Why don't we make that a 3 continuous objection since I find it 4 impossible to leave that word out. 5 MS. RUTTER: I'm going to object to 6 that word every time you do it. I think it is 7 misleading and unfair. 8 MR. RACE: Okay. 9 A Is there a question? 10 Q Did you have any discussions with 11 Mr. Papageorge regarding his visits/ 12 inspections of the Westinghouse facilities, 13 subject to the "inspections" objection by your 14 counsel? 15 A No, sir, I did not. 16 Q Okay. If Monsanto employees saw 17 customers using PCB's improperly, did Monsanto 18 have a policy for that information to be 19 brought to the attention of the medical 20 department? 21 A No, sir. 22 Q Did Monsanto set up any hotline for 23 customers to call the medical department with 24 medical problems? 25 A No, sir. 153 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009464 1 Q Did Monsanto's medical department 2 make any attempt to take air samplings of its 3 PCB customers' facilities? 4 A No, sir. 5 Q Did Monsanto make any attempt to 6 ensure that air sampling was done? 7 A No, sir, not that I know of. 8 Q Okay. 9 MS. RUTTER: I object to the 10 relevance of this entire line of questioning. 11 MR. RACE: That's fine. Let's move 12 on here. 13 Off the record. 14 (Discussion off the record). 15 Q I'm going to hand you a document 16 entitled, "Recommended Instructions for 17 Handling PCB's in Electrical Industries," with 18 a Bates stamp number of MONS040440. Do you 19 recognize that document? 20 MS. RUTTER: Let's see if there is a 21 date on it. 22 MR. RACE: Carol, off the record. 23 (Discussion off the record) 24 (Recess) 25 THE WITNESS: I have no recollection 154 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009465 1 of ever seeing this before. 2 Q No recollection whatsoever. Do you 3 know whether or not that's a Monsanto 4 document? 5 A I don't know. 6 Q Does Monsanto have anyfacilities in 7 Australia? 8 A Did they have facilities in 9 Australia? 10 Q Yes. 11 A Yes . 12 Q Okay. Do you know whether this 13 document strike that. 14 As you testified last time, chloracne 15 is a systemic injury; is that correct? 16 A That's correct. 17 Q So you would distinguish between 18 chloracne and temporary skin lesions, would 19 you not? 20 A Yes. 21 Q They are not the same thing, are 22 they? 23 A No. 24 Q Okay. Did Dr. Kimbrough's slides 25 show carcinomas? 155 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009466 1 A According to her pathologist, yes. 2 Q In your opinion, did they show 3 carcinomas ? 4 A I didn't see them. I'm not a 5 pathologist. I can't make a judgment. 6 Q Did Monsanto have a policy one way or 7 the other strike that. 8 Did Monsanto take a position as to 9 whether Kimbrough's slides showed carcinomas. 10 MS. RUTTER: During the time you were 11 medical director? 12 A This all occurred after I left. 13 Q The Kimbrough studies came out in the 14 early 70 's; is that correct? 15 A Right. 16 Q Okay. And Dr. Kimbrough 17 MS. RUTTER: Specifically 1974 is the 18 date that comes to my mind, Mr. Race. 19 Q Last time we chatted, Dr. Kelly, we 20 spoke about the Treon study. 21 A Yes, sir. 22 Q And if I recall it correctly, that 23 was a 150 day inhalation study conducted by 24 Dr. Treon, correct? 25 A Correct. 156 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009467 1 Q Isn't it true, Doctor, that Dr. Treon 2 recommended additional tests to be conducted? 3 A I don't recall. Do you have it? 4 Q Yes. There is a highlighted portion 5 there? 6 MS. RUTTER: Dr. Kelly, since this 7 test dates back to the 1950's, please take 8 your time and look it over. You can look over 9 the entire document, not just the 10 MR. RACE: Carol, I mean I did 11 furnish you that document. Off the record. 12 (Discussion off the record) 13 A I don't see where he has asked for 14 without going over this point by point, he 15 doesn't mention it in his summary. 16 Q I draw your attention to the sentence 17 saying "For practical purposes, this 18 conclusion was subject to the critique of 19 further experiments involving more prolonged 20 exposures of animals to somewhat lower 21 concentrations." Is that not to be construed 22 as a recommendation for further testing? 23 A Well, what he is saying in there, it 24 seems to me, is that he had fatalities from 25 intercurrent infections both in the controls 157 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009468 1 and in the test animals and if he wanted to be 2 absolutely certain that these deaths, these 3 fatalities in the controls, which would 4 have and compare that to the treated 5 animals, he needed some more work but I don't 6 think that altered his viewpoint as to what 7 the particular toxicity of the material was. 8 Q Okay. But in other words, he did, in 9 fact, recommend further testing? 10 MS. RUTTER: Objection to the form of 11 the question. 12 Q With that caveat? 13 MS. RUTTER: The document will speak 14 for itself. 15 A He recommended that they could use a 16 lower a lower level of exposure but he 17 still stated that the level of the exposure he 18 found a safe level because regardless of 19 whether he needed a lower exposure or not, he 20 said when he did 1242 at eight micrograms per 21 liter, it demonstrated no injury so I don't 22 know what the relevancy of 23 Q The question is, Doctor, just simply, 24 in that document 25 A A little louder. 158 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009469 1 Q The question is very simply, 2 Dr. Kelly, in his report, Doctor Treon had 3 requested or recommended additional medical 4 studies; is that correct? 5 MS. RUTTER: Objection to the form of 6 the question, mischaracterizes a document 7 which will speak for itself. 8 A Now, what's your question again, 9 now? Your voice dropped off. 10 Q Mine drops off as hers picks up. Let 11 me try it again. Let me ask you this 12 question, Doctor: Is it your appreciation that 13 Dr. Treon recommended additional studies? For 14 whatever reason, did he recommend additional 15 studies? 16 A Yes, but that is only a half truth. 17 He did not recommend any additional studies to 18 validate his data that was expressed in the 19 summary. He only asked for additional studies 20 if we wanted to be sure that intercurrent 21 infections were the cause of illnesses both in 22 the control and in the subject animals so, in 23 essence, what he was doing was saying we found 24 a safe level. 25 Q Okay. 159 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009470 1 MR. WUNDERLICH: Joe, are you marking 2 these? 3 MR. RACE: No, because we have marked 4 these before. 5 MR. WUNDERLICH: When? 6 MR. RACE: I think last time around 7 or this is the Treon study which we have. 8 MS. RUTTER: The Treon study was not 9 marked before. 10 MR. RACE: It was produced as a 11 result of Dr. James' deposition so it is in 12 Dr. James'. 13 MR. WUNDERLICH: I understand that. 14 My problem is you have got documents that you 15 are using that I may not have copies of. 16 MR. RACE: You have got 17 MR. WUNDERLICH: I may have that one 18 there, that particular document, but you sent 19 Carol apparently a pack of documents. 20 MR. RACE: All of these came from 21 that pack and they are on the way to you. 22 MR. WUNDERLICH: Okay, but I don't 23 have them yet. I want to make sure that I 24 know that I am looking at the same group of 25 documents that you are asking questions about. 160 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009471 1 MR. RACE: They are in there and I 2 gave you the Bates stamp number so you can get 3 it from that. 4 MR. WUNDERLICH: Okay. Do something 5 at least to make sure that the record reflects 6 what he is talking about. 7 MR. RACE: Okay. And this is 8 referring to the Treon study dated June 1956. 9 MR. WUNDERLICH: If it has a Bates 10 stamp on it, read it for the record. 11 MR. RACE: And the Bates stamp is 12 MONS096370. 13 MR. WUNDERLICH: And you say copies 14 are coming to me? 15 MR. RACE: Yes. I have got a box. 16 Q Is it not true that test results of 17 the Treon study indicated deaths among the 18 exposed groups of animals are attributed to 19 pulmonary disease? 20 A Yes, sir. 21 Q And pulmonary disease, for the sake 22 of the jury, is a lung disease, correct? 23 A Yes, but 24 Q And is it also not true that 25 MS. RUTTER: You cut off his answer, 161 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009472 1 Counsel. 2 MR. RACE: Excuse me. 3 MS. RUTTER: He said 4 A Pulmonary disease can be due to 5 several things, either the test material 6 that's being tested or intercurrent infections 7 and that's what he says in there, that he 8 believes that these illnesses are attributable 9 not to the compound itself inasmuch as they 10 occurred in control animals. 11 Q But he doesn't state they occurred to 12 the control animals, he states they occurred 13 with the exposed group. 14 A Wait a minute. 15 MS. RUTTER: Let him see the 16 document, Counsel. 17 Q Second highlighted portion, 18 Dr. Kelly. 19 MR. WUNDERLICH: Off the record. 20 (Discussion off the record) 21 A He says here, "The similarity of the 22 lesions in test and control animals," so he 23 had problems with both his tests and his 24 control animals. 25 Q With various diseases but with the 162 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009473 1 pulmonary disease, it was, is it not true, the 2 exposed groups in which pulmonary diseases 3 were noted? 4 MS. RUTTER: Dr. Kelly, he is asking 5 you a very specific question about a long 6 document that dates back to the 1950's. 7 Please just take whatever time you need to 8 review the document. 9 MR. RACE: I will withdraw the 10 question. Could you give me the document? 11 Q Are you aware, Dr. Kelly, of any 12 lesions in the brain that were observed during 13 the Treon study? 14 A I have no recollection of any. If 15 they are there, show it to me. 16 Q Okay. You have no independent 17 recollection? 18 A No, sir. 19 MR. RACE: The document will speak 20 for itself. 21 Q I will hand you a document previously 22 marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit 1090 entitled, 23 "Comments on Aroclors," dated March 25th, 24 1969. Do you recognize that document? 25 MR. WUNDERLICH: Where was that 163 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009474 1 marked 1090? 2 MR. RACE: In the Scott trial. 3 MR. WUNDERLICH: If you could, make a 4 reference like that, Joe, so I can easily find 5 it in case it is something I have not seen. 6 MR. RACE: Okay. 7 MR. WUNDERLICH: Off the record. 8 (Discussion off the record) 9 A Yes, sir. 10 Q Okay. Do you recognize that 11 document? 12 A I don't recall when I first saw it. 13 I may very well have seen it during one of 14 these depositions but I have no recollection 15 and I could be wrong on that, that I saw this 16 at the time in March of '69. 17 Q Okay. Do you know whether or not you 18 had seen that document while in the employ of 19 Monsanto prior to 1974 when you retired? 20 A No, sir, I'm not sure and I don't 21 even know who Alvin Mehler is. 22 Q Okay. In 1969, had Monsanto 23 established safe limits of exposures for 24 PCB's ? 25 A Yes. 164 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009475 1 Q Okay. That had already been 2 established, correct? 3 A Yes. 4 Q Okay. When was that established? 5 A On the basis of Treon's work, on the 6 basis of a statement by the American 7 Conference of Industrial Hygienists. 8 Q And so that was established in the 9 mid fifties, correct? 10 A Yes, towards the '56, around then. 11 Q I'll get back to that issue but I'll 12 move through the documents and try to get this 13 thing finished. 14 Would you agree that chronic 15 poisoning could occur if there are repeated 16 exposures to sufficient concentrations of PCB? 17 A That chronic what? 18 Q Chronic poisoning could occur if 19 there are repeated exposures to sufficient 20 concentrations of PCB's? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Would you agree that swallowing PCB's 23 could cause death? 24 A That 25 Q Swallowing PCB's? 165 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009476 1 A If you swallow enough of it. 2 Q Okay. How much would be enough? Do 3 you have any idea? 4 A Well, the LD50 for rats is four grams 5 per kilogram. You transpose that to a 70 6 kilogram man, that would be 280 grams, which 7 is almost ten ounces of the stuff. 8 Q A big beer? 9 A Yeah. 10 Q Okay. So if you swallowed a little 11 beer, it wouldn't kill you? 12 A There have been no reports of any 13 deaths in humans from swallowing PCB's so I 14 can't give you a positive number. When you 15 transpose from an animal to a man, it isn't 16 100 percent certain of whether you can do that 17 correctly. 18 Q Okay. I'm going to hand you four 19 handwritten pages, which the first page is 20 dated 10 22 69, Bates stamp Monsanto 057303 21 through 057317. Do you recognize that 22 document? 23 A No, sir, I don't recognize it. 24 Q Okay. Do you recognize the 25 handwriting at all? 166 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009477 1 A No, sir. 2 Q Do you recognize any of the names 3 contained in that document 4 A I didn't even see the names. 5 Q if there are any names? 6 A What? 7 Q If there are any names. I'm not even 8 sure. May I ask you this: Are there any 9 facts contained in that document which you 10 recognize? 11 MS. RUTTER: Objection to the vague 12 and confusing form of the question. 13 Q Subject to the objection, could you 14 answer that, if you can? 15 A Well, I don't see facts in here at 16 all. They are just statements of what the 17 writer of this believed was needed to 18 establish opposition in October '69. 19 Q And you have no idea who the author 20 of this document is? 21 A No, sir. I don't even know the 22 purpose of it. 23 Q Now, we talked before about safe 24 levels. That's something that's referred to 25 in the industry as MAC; is that correct? 167 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009478 A It used to be. It is threshold. Q Limit value now? A Limit, right. Q Okay. Now, MAC stands for maximum allowable concentration A Correct. Q What was the MAC established or accepted by Monsanto? A When? Q At the time of your retirement. MS. RUTTER: For what product, Counsel? Q For PCB's. A It was one milligram per cubic meter for 1242 and .5 milligrams per cubic meter for 1254 . Q How long had that MAC been accepted by Monsanto? A Since around '56. Q Okay. What was the MAC prior to '56? A I don't recall. I'm not sure whether there was one established Q that. Has your opinion changed strike Are you still of the opinion that an 168 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009479 1 acceptable MAC is one milligram per cubic 2 meter for 1242 and .5 milligrams per cubic 3 meter for 1254? 4 A Yes. 5 Q I'm going to apologize because I 6 think I asked you these names but I don't 7 recall off the top of my head. Dr. Barrett 8 was whom? 9 A He was of Monsanto of England, 10 Monsanto of Europe. 11 Q And he was in the medical department? 12 A No, he was not. He was either in 13 research or development. 14 Q Okay. And D.V.M. Hardy? 15 A He was also at Monsanto of Europe and 16 I don't know if he was in research or in 17 development, also. I don't know. 18 Q Okay. Do you know if the same MAC'S 19 were use in England as were used in the United 20 States for PCB's? 21 A I don't know. 22 Q Would there be any reason to utilize 23 a different MAC? 24 A No. 25 Q Okay. Because the MAC is the maximum 169 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009480 1 allowable concentration for human beings 2 whether that human being is English or 3 American; is that correct? 4 A That's correct. 5 Q Okay. So you would anticipate that 6 the same MAC was recommended by Monsanto in 7 England as was in the United States, correct? 8 A Yes. 9 MS. RUTTER: Objection, calls for 10 speculation and conjecture. 11 Q Subject to the objection 12 Doctor, is it not true that animal 13 tests had shown prior to 1955 that 1.5 14 milligrams per cubic meter can produce damage 15 to liver and kidney in test animals. 16 MS. RUTTER: Counsel, you are reading 17 from a specific document without doing the 18 witness the courtesy of showing him the 19 document. 20 MR. RACE: You are right. 21 MS. RUTTER: I would note for the 22 record. 23 MR. RACE: You are right. 24 Q Do you have a recollection? 25 A No, I don't. 170 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009481 1 Q Okay. So you are not aware of any 2 animal tests which showed liver damage at 1.5 3 milligrams per cubic meter, correct? 4 A At the present time, no. I may have 5 in the past. If you show me an article, I 6 will be happy to tell you. 7 Q Doctor, is it not true that when 8 establishing MAC, we use a ten fold a 9 safety factor of ten when looking at the MAC 10 in the context of safe human exposure? 11 MS. RUTTER: Objection to the 12 overbroad and vague form of the question. 13 A The people who establish the MAC 14 would have to answer that question. 15 Q Are you familiar with the 16 establishing of MAC'S at all? 17 A Well, I am familiar with pre '74 and 18 post '74 with EPA when OSHA came in, but 19 prior to that the MAC'S were established by 20 the American Conference of Government 21 Industrial Hygienists. 22 Q Did Monsanto not make any independent 23 efforts to establish what the maximum 24 allowable concentration of its chemicals were? 25 A Certainly we did in the case of 171 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009482 1 PCB's. 2 Q Okay. Are you familiar with the 3 process whereby those figures were attempted 4 to be arrived at? 5 A The process? Yes. You do animal 6 experimentation. 7 Q And why don't you explain that 8 process to me. 9 A Why don't I explain it? 10 Q Yes. 11 A Well, you give animals a certain 12 level and see if it harms them and if it 13 doesn't harm them, use that as a basis for the 14 threshold limit or the MAC depending on which 15 was in vogue at the time. 16 Q Okay. Now, I want to suggest to you 17 that it was found that animals were harmed at 18 a level of 1.5 grams per cubic meter. 19 A Grams? 20 Q Micrograms? 21 A Not micrograms. 22 Q Milligrams? 23 A Okay. 24 MR. RACE: Strike that. And when I 25 say, "strike that," that means knock it out 172 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009483 1 and don't write, "strike that." 2 MS. RUTTER: That does not mean that 3 under Missouri procedure. You can practice 4 whatever way you want in Louisiana, Counsel, 5 but here the stricken question appears in the 6 transcript with Counsel's statements. 7 MR. RACE: Off the record. 8 (Discussion off the record) 9 MR. RACE: I hired you. Strike it. 10 MS. RUTTER: I request that the 11 question be left in the transcript as is the 12 current procedure in Missouri, along with 13 Counsel's instruction that it be stricken. 14 MR. RACE: Okay. Let me clarify that 15 I wanted it stricken only because it was a 16 little confusing and I acknowledge that it was 17 a little confusing and at some point we might 18 have to strike it if it is going to be read to 19 the jury anyway but, nevertheless, why not an 20 extra page, huh? 21 MR. WUNDERLICH: Three pages by now. 22 The court reporter smiles every time you say 23 that. 24 MR. RACE: Yeah, okay. 25 Q Okay. Doctor, so you are aware that 173 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009484 1 tests, in order to establish a MAC, tests are 2 conducted on animals and it is determined at 3 what level there is injury noted to the 4 animal; is that correct? 5 A Yes, that is one of the methods. 6 Presumably they have looked at some of the 7 clinical findings of workers but I'm not 8 certain of whether that is a function that's 9 one of the bases of a governmental group or 10 not. 11 Q Okay. And is it also not true that 12 once you have established the level at which 13 animal studies have revealed harm to the 14 animal, a factor of ten is utilized to 15 establish the MAC? 16 MS. RUTTER: Objection, calls for 17 speculation and conjecture, overbroad and 18 vague. 19 Q Subject to the objection, can you 20 answer that? 21 A I think you would have to ask the 22 government people how they arrive at it. 23 Q You previously testified that 24 Monsanto made independent efforts to establish 25 MAC'S, correct? 174 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009485 1 MS. RUTTER: Objection, 2 mischaracterizes prior testimony. 3 A I don't think I did. I said we ran 4 the animal studies to give the basis for the 5 MAC development. We don't establish MAC's. 6 The government people establish MAC's. 7 Q While you were medical director at 8 Monsanto, did Monsanto attempt to establish 9 the maximum levels that were safe for human 10 beings ? 11 A I think we did. We established we 12 didn't use analytical figures. We used safe 13 working procedures but there were no figures, 14 no analytical data to support it. We did not 15 run animal testing to establish MAC's with the 16 exception of PCB's. 17 Q Okay. So you did run animal testing 18 to establish MAC's for purposes of PCB's? 19 A To form the basis for somebody to 20 establish the MAC and, after all, the 21 government did take Treon's work, which was 22 Monsanto sponsored, and we gave it to them. 23 Of course, it was in the literature, also, but 24 we did give that basis but we did not 25 establish the MAC on our own authority. We 175 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009486 1 didn't have the authority to do it. 2 Q Did you not attempt to establish a 3 MAC in order to ensure the safety of Monsanto 4 workers? 5 A No, because we had had 20 years of 6 manufacturing experience that proved safe for 7 Monsanto workers by the time the MAC'S were 8 established. 9 Q Okay. Then can you tell me what the 10 purpose of the animal studies were? 11 A Yes. We were using PCB's in a 12 different operation where they would be 13 exposed to dropping on a hot metal surface or 14 at an extrusion or an extrusion die cast 15 where there could be exposure repeated 16 exposure to elevated temperatures. We did not 17 anticipate, nor had we had repeated exposures 18 in the electrical field or in the plasticizer 19 field but where we got into the hydraulic 20 fluid field, there was exposure. We had to 21 find that out. That's what the safe level 22 would be. 23 Q Okay. And could you explain to me 24 how that was done? 25 A Certainly. You took animals, various 176 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009487 1 animals, and ran inhalation studies at two 2 levels over 120 to 150 days. 3 Q And you found out at what level the 4 animals died; is that correct? 5 A Well, no, we found out what the safe 6 level was when the animals didn't die or 7 didn't get any problems. 8 Q How do you find the safe levels? 9 A For an animal? 10 Q Yes. 11 A You give them a measured amount and 12 if he doesn't have any symptoms or any 13 pathology from it, you consider it safe. 14 Q Okay. And then it is accepted that 15 the humans can operate in an environment at 16 that same level; is that correct? 17 A Well, the government cut the safe 18 level in half over the one that Treon 19 recommended. 20 Q What was the level that Treon 21 recommended? 22 A I think it was one for 1254 and I 23 don't know if it was as high as ten milligrams 24 for 1242; I'm not sure. 25 Q So the use of the safety factor of 177 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009488 1 ten is something not known to you at all; is 2 that correct? 3 A No, that's not correct. 4 Q Okay. 5 A I have heard it bandied around but I 6 do not know whether the people who are 7 establishing the MAC'S used that safety factor 8 of ten. I don't know that. I said they take 9 into account the clinical experience of the 10 workers who have been handling the material 11 for years. 12 Q Is it true, Doctor, that pathological 13 changes were noted from exposure to PCB's as 14 early as the forties? 15 MS. RUTTER: Objection to the vague 16 and confusing form of the question. 17 A Tricker did some work on PCB's in '37 18 or '38 and found some pathological changes. 19 Q Are you familiar with the public 20 health reports? 21 A Which one? 22 Q Generally, that journal of public 23 health reports? 24 A Do you have it there? 25 Q No, I'm just talking about them in 178 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009489 1 general. 2 A In general, public health reports? 3 Q Yes. 4 A Yes, I know they used to put out a 5 lot of them. They don't seem to do it 6 anymore. 7 Q And in the forties public health 8 reports were put out, correct? 9 A Yes, sir. 10 Q And was this something that you as 11 medical director would monitor? 12 A Well, I don't know how you could 13 monitor them because you couldn't subscribe to 14 them but I think once you get on their mailing 15 list, you got them. 16 Q Are you familiar with the 17 A There were four years that I was not 18 available to the from when I was in the 19 service, I was not close to it, any public 20 health reports. 21 Q Are you familiar with the document 22 Public Health Report dated August 18th, 1944? 23 A This came when I was gone. I was in 24 the service at this time. 25 Q Okay. Had you reviewed it, that 179 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009490 1 document, after you came back from the 2 service? 3 A I think so, yes, sir. 4 Q And this would be a document that was 5 kept in the normal course of business at 6 Monsanto; is that correct? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Okay. And it is something that you 9 would refer to as the medical director at 10 Monsanto; is that correct? 11 A Refer to it for what purpose? 12 Q To see what materials are published 13 in the industry; is that correct? 14 A Well, yes, I would I'm sure we've 15 got a copy of it someplace or other. 16 Q Okay. I don't have any further 17 questions of that document. 18 A Beg your pardon? 19 MR. WUNDERLICH: Does that have a 20 stamp on it? 21 MR. RACE: Yes. I will give you the 22 Bates stamp. 23 Q I'm not going to ask you any more 24 about it at this time. 25 MS. RUTTER: It is MONS07 180 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009491 1 MONS076181. That's just the first page. 2 Q Okay. Can I have that? I'm not 3 going to ask anymore questions about it so I 4 don't know if it is relevant to review it. 5 THE WITNESS: You ask me. 6 MS. RUTTER: Okay. 7 Q Dr. Kelly, would you agree with me 8 that prior to 1970, some harmful effects from 9 PCB's were noted either to Monsanto employees 10 or to its employees of its customers? 11 MR. WUNDERLICH: I'll object to the 12 form of the question. 13 A Yes, in nonelectrical applications. 14 I told you about two cases of heat transfer 15 problems that occurred in Monsanto customers 16 due to acute exposures. There were none in 17 Monsanto employees. 18 Q But there were to Monsanto customers? 19 A Beg pardon? 20 Q The harmful effects did occur to the 21 customers of Monsanto? 22 MS. RUTTER: Objection to the 23 overbroad form of the question as phrased. It 24 mischaracterizes his prior very specific 25 testimony. 181 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009492 1 MR. WUNDERLICH: I will join in that 2 objection. 3 MR. RACE: I will withdraw the 4 question. Thank you. 5 Q When we spoke last time, Doctor, you 6 told me that you had maintained a cancer 7 index. 8 A Yes, sir. 9 Q Okay. And you noted a high incidence 10 of lung cancer. 11 A Yes, sir. 12 Q But you had not made any attempt 13 prior to 1974 when you retired to establish 14 whether that lung cancer rate was in 15 conformity with the nation at large, did you? 16 A I think we did. I think we found 17 that the amount of lung cancer in our employee 18 population and, remember, we did not take 19 into account any confounding aspects such as 20 smoking, all we did was check whether or not a 21 cancer occurred of the lung, and we did 22 came up with a conclusion that it was not in 23 excess of the amount of cancers that you would 24 expect in males at that particular age group. 25 MR. WUNDERLICH: Was not in excess? 182 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009493 1 A Was not in excess, yes, sir. 2 Q Okay. And you had done that shortly 3 before your retirement? 4 A No, we looked at it all the way 5 through. 6 Q All the way through. And as a 7 medical director, that's part of your job, to 8 see whether there is any occupational related 9 diseases ? 10 A Yes, sir. 11 MS. RUTTER: Are you talking about in 12 Monsanto's workers? 13 MR. RACE: Yes, in Monsanto's 14 workers. 15 A Yes. 16 Q Now, I'm not sure, Doctor, if we 17 discussed or tried to identify this document 18 during our last discussions. Can I hand you 19 something that we received from Monsanto, 20 Bates stamped number MONS95218? 21 MS. RUTTER: Are you asking him 22 whether you discussed this with him last week 23 or are you asking him to review the document, 24 Counsel? 25 MR. RACE: Well, I'm asking him if I 183 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009494 1 discussed it last week so I won't go into it 2 this time. 3 Q Do you recall that document? 4 A No, sir, I don't recall it but I'm 5 sure I got it because they refer to me pretty 6 often in there. 7 Q Okay. Who is Mr. Brown? 8 A I do not know. 9 Q Okay. Why don't you peruse that and 10 let me take a one minute break. 11 A Beg your pardon? 12 Q Why don't you look at it just a 13 second and I will take a one minute break. 14 (Recess) 15 Q Doctor, have you had a chance to take 16 a look at that? 17 A I'm on page three right now. 18 Q I think the questions that I'm going 19 to ask you are confined to page two. 20 MS. RUTTER: No, I would ask that he 21 read the entire document. 22 A I'll get down to it pretty fast. 23 They talk about a whole bag of things outside 24 of PCB's. 25 Q That's why I'm not going to ask you 184 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009495 1 about the whole document but, now, because of 2 your attorney, you are knowledgeable about 3 that. 4 MS. RUTTER: I need to take a look at 5 the document, as well. 6 MR. RACE: Counsel? 7 Q Do you recall, Doctor, the contents 8 of or the subject matter as addressed in the 9 first page or two of that document with 10 respect to laying out various schemes for 11 toxicity tests? 12 A Yes. 13 Q Okay. And that was back in the 14 mid fifties, correct? 15 A Right. 16 Q And, for example, that was a cost 17 effort or cost analysis, correct? 18 A Well, I don't know what you mean by 19 "cost analysis." It was the pricing of it. 20 Q Okay. For example, the LD50's cost 21 $50 to $75, didn't they? 22 A Back then, yes, in England. 23 Q Okay. Were they comparable costs in 24 the United States? 25 A We were higher because we did the 185 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009496 1 four tests and well, we got yes, we were 2 somewhat higher. 3 Q Why were the English prices quoted? 4 A Why were they what? 5 Q The English prices as opposed to the 6 American prices quoted? 7 A I haven't the slightest idea. 8 MS. RUTTER: For the record, before 9 handing the document to the witness, Counsel 10 detached it from something that appeared to be 11 a cover memo. I do not know if it was, in 12 fact, a cover memo or it was a separate 13 document. 14 MR. RACE: Counsel, for the record, 15 this document was attached as part of the 16 documents that you produced in the shuffled 17 fashion. It was attached to a document that 18 was totally irrelevant to this document. I am 19 assuming that the cover letter to this 20 document is somewhere in that 130,000 21 documents and I am also quite positive it's 22 been shuffled in a way that I can't find it 23 and perhaps you can. I detached it from a 24 document that was totally irrelevant and if 25 you wish, I will attach both of them to this 186 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009497 1 record and bring it to the Court's attention 2 if that becomes an issue, okay? 3 MS. RUTTER: Have you finished your 4 speech, Counsel? 5 MR. RACE: Yes. Yes, I have. 6 MS. RUTTER: Counsel for Monsanto 7 disputes the numerous characterizations made 8 by Counsel for the plaintiff, 9 characterizations and accusations; however, in 10 order to avoid unnecessarily prolonging this 11 deposition with speeches of counsel, I will 12 just note my general statement. 13 Q Okay. How do you know that the 14 toxicity costs are quoted based on the U.K. 15 market as opposed to the U.S. market? 16 A How do I know? Well, I know what 17 the what the cost in the United States was 18 and they gave me the figure for Europe. 19 Q So this starts off with toxicity 20 costs? 21 A Yes, sir. 22 Q And the first statement is: 23 "Dr. Kelly first outlined the various schemes 24 of toxicity tests that MCC arranged to have 25 conducted on their products," and then under 187 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009498 1 that it says: "Minimum LD50 test cost $50 to 2 $75"? 3 A Yes, sir. 4 Q Okay. So that's not you telling 5 Mr. Brown or someone else that is the cost of 6 the test? 7 MS. RUTTER: Let the record reflect 8 that Counsel has now handed the witness the 9 document. 10 A No, that's a minimum test of U.S. but 11 it says: "Dermal and ocular tests are also 12 carried out, which brings the cost up to 13 $200," in whatever year this was and 14 inhalation is another $75 so we are getting up 15 to $300 or $400. Now, I thought they 16 mentioned someplace in here the cost to MCC 17 MCL. 18 Q Is MCL 19 A That's Monsanto Chemical, Limited. 20 That's Europe. 21 Q "MCC" denotes America, correct? 22 A Correct. 23 Q And at the bottom of the paragraph 24 here it was estimated that it would cost MCC 25 $200,000 a year to carry out their own 188 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009499 1 toxicity investigation. So that's the 2 estimated cost for Monsanto in the United 3 States; is that correct? 4 A Correct. 5 Q And that would be an estimate that 6 you would have provided to the corporation in 7 making determinations as to whether an 8 in house toxicity at the lab would be set up, 9 correct? 10 A Correct. 11 Q And you were head of the department, 12 correct? 13 A Yes, sir. 14 Q And you had been appointed head of 15 that department in the forties, correct? 16 A Yes, sir. 17 Q Since 1946, was it? 18 A Yes, sir. 19 Q Okay. And you had eight physicians 20 or personnel in the medical department; is 21 that correct? 22 A Right. 23 MS. RUTTER: Off the record. 24 (Discussion off the record) 25 Q And the medical department was given 189 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009500 1 a budget; is that correct? 2 A Yes, sir. 3 Q And you were to work within that 4 budget, correct? 5 A Well, it depends. If a problem came 6 up that was going to be expensive and it was 7 urgent, it was done and the cost was approved 8 by the sponsoring division. 9 Q Okay. Did you attempt to try to work 10 within your given budget? 11 A Yes, sir. 12 Q Okay. And Monsanto was, after all, a 13 corporation that was in the business to make 14 money; is that correct? 15 A Yes, sir. 16 Q And you make money by selling 17 products and by holding costs down; is that 18 correct? 19 MS. RUTTER: Objection to the 20 overbroad and vague form of the question. 21 Q Subject to the objection, can you 22 answer that one? 23 A There are other ways of making 24 money. You gave two: Holding costs down and 25 what was the other one? 190 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009501 1 Q And selling the product. 2 A Selling at a profit? Well, sure. 3 Q Okay. So you sell at a profit? 4 MS. RUTTER: Well, he had not 5 finished, Counsel. 6 MR. RACE: I don't mean to cut you 7 off and if I did cut you off, tell me. 8 A I will tell you or my counsel will 9 tell you. 10 No, there are probably other reasons 11 for making money, other avenues of making 12 money but that's outside my field. 13 Q Okay. But you do recognize that the 14 two ways that a corporation makes money is by 15 obtaining a profit on its product and holding 16 its cost down; is that correct? 17 MS. RUTTER: Objection, 18 mischaracterizes prior testimony. 19 MR. RACE: Nothing difficult about 20 that one. 21 Q Is it correct? 22 A Those are two very important factors. 23 Q Okay. And part of your 24 responsibility as the head of a department was 25 to attempt to hold down costs; is that 191 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009502 1 correct? 2 A Well, yes. You don't want to waste 3 money. 4 Q Okay. Now, is it not also true that 5 in 1954, Monsanto had done two year chronic 6 studies to rats in testing some of its 7 chemicals? 8 A It may have. I don't know when we 9 had agricultural chemicals tested for a two 10 year study. We did not have any testing on 11 purely two year testing on purely 12 industrial chemicals. 13 Q But the concept of two year chronic 14 studies were known to the medical department 15 in 1954; is that correct? 16 A Yes. 17 Q Okay. And as a matter of fact, you 18 even quote in here a price for two year 19 studies being in the range of $30,000. Do you 20 recall that? 21 A It was cheap at that time. 22 Q Gotten a little more expensive, 23 hasn't it? 24 A About ten times. 25 Q Especially if you have to have your 192 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009503 1 own conclusions written. 2 MR. RACE: You can strike that. 3 MS. RUTTER: Please do. 4 MR. RACE: No, leave it on there. 5 No, strike it. 6 MS. RUTTER: You can strike it, 7 Missouri style. 8 Q And in 1954, you were of the opinion 9 that it was not economically sound judgment to 10 establish an in house toxicity lab at a cost 11 of $200,000? 12 A That was a yearly cost. 13 Q Yes. 14 A Yes . 15 Q What was your yearly expenditure for 16 testing in this year? 17 MS. RUTTER: What year are you 18 referring to, Counsel? 19 Q 1954. 20 A I don't remember. 21 Q Can you give me a ballpark? 22 A I would just be guessing. I 23 couldn't. 24 Q It didn't exceed 200,000, correct? 25 MS. RUTTER: Objection, asked and 193 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009504 1 answered. 2 A I really don't know. I don't know 3 what our cost was but you are only picking one 4 item out of there. We did not believe we had 5 enough compounds to be tested that we could 6 fully utilize a laboratory of our own and that 7 was as a part of the cost of the laboratory. 8 Q Who was W. R. Richard? 9 A He was research and development in 10 St. Louis. 11 Q Is he someone that you had contact 12 with during your professional employment at 13 Monsanto? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Okay. You had testified that the 16 long term safe exposure level was established 17 in the fifties, particularly, I believe, 1956 18 as a result of the Treon study; is that 19 correct? 20 A Right. 21 Q And these exposure levels, long term 22 exposure levels, remained in effect until your 23 retirement, correct? 24 A Correct. 25 Q Was there any need to recheck those? 194 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009505 1 Were the tests conducted with Treon 2 sufficiently comprehensive? 3 A Yes, they were. Yes. 4 Q Yes, the tests by Treon were 5 sufficiently comprehensive? 6 A That's correct. 7 Q So there was no need to retest the 8 safe long term exposure levels? 9 A That's correct. 10 Q Okay. In establishing the long term 11 exposure levels, that was within your realm of 12 responsibility, the medical department, 13 correct? 14 MS. RUTTER: Objection, asked and 15 answered. 16 A Well, you generally use the 17 experiment or who is more knowledgeable about 18 toxicology or more knowledgeable about levels 19 than I was. 20 Q So that was done out house, correct? 21 A Beg pardon? 22 Q That was done outside Monsanto. 23 A That's right. 24 Q So Monsanto had to use someone 25 outside of its facility to determine what the 195 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009506 1 safe level of chemicals Monsanto produced was; 2 is that correct? 3 A No, it isn't correct because we ran 4 testing on PCB's to find out whether 5 particular working conditions would be safe or 6 not and our particular working condition was 7 that we would have volatilization of the 8 material either by hitting heated objects or 9 extrusion, which was a hot apparatus, a hot 10 procedure, so we then would talk to the 11 experimenter, Treon in this case, and say we 12 want a safe level and we want a level where we 13 would get some pathology, that we would come 14 out with a safe working level. 15 Q Okay. But the actual work on the 16 animals and the pathology was done by a firm 17 outside of Monsanto, correct? 18 A That's correct. 19 Q And that's because Monsanto didn't 20 want to spend the $200,000 for a lab? 21 A No, that was not the reason. 22 Q Okay. As medical director, you never 23 developed a list of employees who had been 24 involved in the manufacture of PCB's; is that 25 correct? 196 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009507 1 MS. RUTTER: At Monsanto? 2 Q At Monsanto. 3 A Whoever no. 4 Q No. You never requested that the 5 personnel department specifically segregate 6 PCB workers in order for you to conduct any 7 epidemiological tests; is that correct? 8 A In a union plant, you could not 9 segregate workers to any one particular 10 department. 11 Q You never asked the personnel 12 department or any other entity at Monsanto to 13 segregate the records of workers in order to 14 establish which ones worked with PCB's? 15 MS. RUTTER: You are asking what 16 Dr. Kelly did before he retired in 1974? 17 MR. RACE: You got it. 18 MS. RUTTER: Good. 19 A No, sir, I did not. 20 Q Okay. Was that request made of the 21 personnel department and that tack taken at 22 any time during your tenure as medical 23 director? 24 MS. RUTTER: Objection to the 25 confusing and vague form of the question. 197 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009508 1 Q Understand it? 2 A No, I don't. 3 Q Let me repeat it. Did anyone else 4 attempt to segregate the employment records at 5 Monsanto or suggest that the employment 6 records be so categorized so as to allow 7 Monsanto to conduct studies as to the medical 8 condition of PCB workers? 9 MS. RUTTER: On or before November 10 '74? 11 Q At any time that you know of while 12 working at Monsanto as medical director? 13 A As any time what? 14 Q While you were working as medical 15 director? 16 A No, sir, with the one exception that 17 our physicians who were carrying out 18 examinations in our PCB manufacturing plants 19 knew the workers when they came in for their 20 periodic examination, knew they were working 21 in PCB's. 22 Q How did they know they were working 23 in PCB's? 24 A They would ask them, "Where are you 25 working?" 198 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009509 1 Q Was there any official list taken of 2 that? 3 A No, sir. 4 Q Okay. That was something that could 5 have been done if you had instructed it to 6 have been done; is that correct? 7 A Yes, it could be. In the absence of 8 any illness, it didn't seem like it was that 9 important. 10 Q And at no time up until November of 11 '74 did you consider that necessary? 12 A No, sir, I did not consider it 13 necessary. 14 Q Okay. It appears that you previously 15 testified that Monsanto did, in fact, conduct 16 two year chronic studies with IBT in the late 17 sixties, correct? 18 A Yes, sir. 19 Q And is it not true that the toxicity 20 of PCB's in those chronic studies was greater 21 than anticipated? 22 A Well, that might have been a 23 supposition, yes. 24 Q Do you know the chemicals that were 25 provided to Westinghouse? 199 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009510 1 A No, sir. 2 MS. RUTTER: Counsel, he is not 3 designated in that area. 4 Q Would you agree with me that PCB's 5 are as toxic as DDT? 6 MS. RUTTER: Objection, repetitious. 7 A I don't think they are and I don't 8 think either one is particularly toxic. They 9 are environmentally dangerous but as far as 10 toxicity is concerned, they are both of a mild 11 to moderate toxicity as far as a worker is 12 concerned. DDT is obviously more toxic to 13 insects. 14 Q So you don't think that either DDT or 15 PCB's are very toxic; is that your testimony? 16 A Is very toxic? 17 Q Yes. 18 A No, I don't think so. 19 Q Would you agree with me that furans 20 are as much as 10,000 times more toxic than 21 PCB's? 22 A I don't know about 10,000 but they 23 are certainly 1,000 times as toxic. 24 Q Who was E. P. Wheeler? 25 A He was in the medical department, he 200 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009511 1 was in charge of industrial hygiene and he was 2 in charge of administration in the medical 3 department. 4 Q Okay. Would you classify the 5 toxicity of PCB's to humans to be unknown or 6 only partially known? 7 A Would I 8 Q Classify the toxicity of PCB's to 9 humans as being either unknown or only 10 partially known? 11 MS. RUTTER: Objection to the vague 12 and confusing form of the question as to at 13 what time period are you inquiring? 14 Q June 4th, 1969. 15 A I would think you would have to 16 differentiate between the inherent toxicity of 17 the material that's certainly known because 18 we have two year testing, we have acute 19 testing, we have testing as far as inhalation 20 is concerned, both acute and chronic, but then 21 you have to consider the exposure of the 22 worker and it certainly has not been toxic as 23 far as the exposure to the worker is 24 concerned. 25 Q So you would disagree and say that 201 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009512 1 the toxicity of PCB's to humans was known in 2 1969? 3 MS. RUTTER: Well, disagree with 4 what, Counsel? You are referring to a 5 document. 6 MR. RACE: With this statement. 7 MS. RUTTER: You are referring to one 8 statement off of a two page document that you 9 are not sharing with the witness. If you are 10 asking him to agree or disagree with a 11 statement, that statement needs to be put in 12 the context of the document that you are 13 referring to but not showing to him. 14 MR. RACE: No, it doesn't. 15 MS. RUTTER: Yes, it does. 16 Q As a statement, Doctor, would you 17 agree or disagree? 18 A With what? 19 Q With the statement that the toxicity 20 of PCB's to human beings is unknown or only 21 partially known? 22 A Is unknown? 23 Q Unknown. 24 MS. RUTTER: Let me get an objection 25 in for the record. I strenuously object to 202 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009513 1 Counsel picking one sentence out of a two page 2 document which he has declined to show to the 3 witness and asking the witness whether he 4 agrees or disagrees with the statement without 5 allowing the witness to know the context of 6 the statement. I am going to state my 7 objection for the record. I think it is a 8 very well founded objection. And in an 9 attempt to move this along, I'm going to 10 permit Dr. Kelly to answer the question, if he 11 can, as phrased. 12 A Well, I don't know if the author of 13 that particular memorandum wait a minute. 14 Wait a minute if the author of that, what 15 he says is unknown, does he mean by that it's 16 never happened so they don't know anything 17 about it? 18 Q Dr. Kelly, I'm going to state a 19 statement. I'm going to give you a statement 20 and will you tell me, please, if you agree or 21 disagree? Okay? 22 A Well, I can't tell you whether I 23 agree or disagree because I don't know what he 24 is referring to. 25 Q It is not "he," it is me. I'm giving 203 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009514 1 you a statement, okay? 2 A What is your statement? 3 Q Okay. 4 MS. RUTTER: No, Counsel, you are not 5 giving him a statement. You are trying to 6 unfairly get the witness to agree or disagree 7 with a statement that you are reading out of 8 the middle of a two page document that you are 9 refusing to show him. 10 MR. RACE: Can you read it 11 upside down? 12 MS. RUTTER: You are giggling again, 13 Joe. I know you think these matters are 14 amusing. If you are asking him to agree or 15 disagree with a statement in the middle of a 16 two page document, then do the witness the 17 courtesy of giving him the document. 18 MR. RACE: Finished? Okay. That's 19 your objection. 20 Q My statement, Dr. Kelly, do you agree 21 or disagree that the toxicity of PCB's to 22 humans either unknown or only partially known? 23 MS. RUTTER: I object to the 24 question. Counsel is reading the statement 25 from a document he has repeatedly refused to 204 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009515 1 identify and he hasn't put a time frame on the 2 question. As phrased, the question is 3 incomprehensible and unanswerable. 4 A I can't answer it because I don't 5 know what he refers to when he says it is 6 unknown. 7 Q We are not talking about "he." This 8 is my statement, Doctor. This is just a 9 statement. 10 A You are stating 11 Q I am stating that in 1969 the 12 toxicity of PCB's is either unknown or only 13 partially known. Would you agree or 14 disagree? 15 A I think it was well known in 1969 16 '59. 17 Q So you would disagree with that 18 statement; is that correct? 19 A Yes. 20 MS. RUTTER: Counsel. Counsel, for 21 the record, that is entirely unfair. 22 MR. RACE: Counsel, that is not. 23 MS. RUTTER: That is the most unfair 24 tactic I have 25 MR. RACE: Giving me 130,000 205 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009516 1 documents and shuffling them is unfair and, as 2 the judge said, that's baseball. 3 MS. RUTTER: As the judge said, the 4 plaintiff sure did send broad discovery 5 requests and, gee, Monsanto responded to the 6 plaintiff's very broad discovery requests that 7 plaintiff sent on the eve of trial. 8 You have mischaracterized his 9 testimony. You told him that this was a 10 statement you were making in 1969 and now you 11 are trying to get him to agree or disagree 12 with the statement from a document you refuse 13 to show him. That's grossly unfair and 14 extremely objectionable under our practice and 15 I am going to object to the use of that 16 testimony for any purpose. 17 MR. RACE: Objection noted. Thank 18 you. 19 MS. RUTTER: How many more statements 20 are you going to pull out of the middle of 21 documents and read to him? 22 MR. RACE: Well, when you don't give 23 me the front page and don't give me the last 24 page and if I do give it to you, it takes you 25 ten minutes to read it. Maybe one or two 206 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009517 1 more. 2 MS. RUTTER: Amazing. 3 For the record, Counsel initially 4 advised that this would be a half hour 5 deposition and then it was changed to an 6 hour. We have now been going for 7 two and a half hours. 8 MR. RACE: Hope to be finished pretty 9 soon, Doc. 10 MS. RUTTER: If you are not finished 11 by 12:30, we will need to take a lunch break. 12 I also need to know what to do with my other 13 witnesses who are hanging around at your beck 14 and call. 15 MR. RACE: We will go to Papageorge. 16 What I think we are going to do is finish with 17 Dr. Kelly within the next half hour, take a 18 break and start with Papageorge this 19 afternoon. 20 MS. RUTTER: What am I supposed to do 21 with Dr. Kaley? 22 MR. MURRAY I will be doing Dr. Kaley. 23 MS. RUTTER: When are you starting 24 Dr. Kaley? 25 MR. MURRAY: Quarter to 2:00. 207 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009518 1 MS. RUTTER: Quarter to 2:00. 2 MR. RACE: Okay. 3 Q Now, produced today were the acute 4 and chronic toxicity studies that were 5 performed by or on the behalf of Monsanto and 6 I'm going to ask you some questions about 7 these acute studies, okay? You testified 8 before that Younger Laboratories conducted 9 several of these studies for Monsanto, 10 correct? 11 A Yes, sir, but you talked about 12 chronic studies. 13 Q And the only chronic study was 14 Dr. Treon prior to IBT; is that correct? 15 A That's correct. 16 Q We will agree on that. Okay. So in 17 reading this, this is the Younger Laboratories 18 toxicological investigation of MCS90. That 19 would indicate the substance which was the 20 subject of that study? 21 A That's correct. 22 Q Okay. Was 23 MR. WUNDERLICH: Does that document 24 have a 25 MR. RACE: Bates stamp number on 208 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009519 1 it? Yes, BEC135733 dated October 17th, 1966. 2 Q Okay. What is MCS90? 3 A I don't know. It is a functional 4 fluid and it is not an electrical grade. 5 Q It is dielectrical? 6 A It is not. It is a functional 7 fluid. The MCS series was nonelectrical use. 8 Q Nonelectrical use. Okay. But they 9 were PCB fluids? 10 A Yes, but I don't know exactly the 11 composition at this time of MCS whatever you 12 have there. 13 Q So the entire MCS line was non 14 dielectric fluid? 15 A That's correct. 16 Q Okay. Now, you testified that 50 17 acute studies were done of PCB fluids? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Before 1969? 20 A I said that was a ballpark. 21 Q A rough estimate, yes? 22 MS. RUTTER: I believe he said a 23 guess. I have reviewed his transcript but the 24 word 50 was used. 25 MR. RACE: Okay. 209 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009520 1 Q Is it not true that only five of 2 those tests actually concerned PCB Aroclor 3 1252? 4 A I don't know. 5 Q Would that sound about right to you? 6 A I don't know. 7 Q If I give you the five tests and you 8 take a look at them, can you tell me whether 9 or not there were any other tests conducted? 10 A I won't be able to but 11 Q Well, then I'm not going to have you 12 look at them. 13 A Well, because I don't 14 Q Doctor, I'll tell you what, I am 15 trying to avoid giving you something. You 16 both read the whole document and I'm trying to 17 get to lunch. 18 A Yes, sir. But what I am saying is I 19 don't recall I cannot recall in 1994 how 20 many other tests of PCB's we may or may not 21 have done, so if you give me five and you say, 22 "Did you do any more?" I won't be able to tell 23 you. 24 Q Okay. Let me ask you this: All the 25 tests that were conducted, reports were 210 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009521 1 authored in conjunction with those tests; is 2 that correct? 3 A That's correct. 4 Q Okay. So if I have a complete set of 5 acute study tests and only five of those 6 studies indicate Aroclor 1244, you would have 7 no reason to be of the opinion that more 8 Aroclor 1242 tests were conducted than those 9 that I have in my possession; is that correct? 10 A You have brought in 1244 which we 11 Q Excuse me. 1242. 12 A 1242. 13 MS. RUTTER: I object to the vague 14 and confusing form of the question. 15 MR. RACE: Of course. Now, let me 16 rephrase the question. 17 Q If I am given all of the acute 18 toxicity tests, the results, and of the 19 results that I am given, five of them are 20 involving 1242, would you have any reason to 21 believe that more than five acute toxicity 22 tests on 1242 were conducted? 23 MS. RUTTER: I object to the form of 24 the hypothetical question. Counsel is 25 hypothesizing that he has interpreted five of 211 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009522 1 these reports as relating to Aroclor 1242. 2 Are you saying that five reports that you 3 found say 1242 on them? 4 MR. RACE: Uh huh. 5 A Yes, I thought we did more. 6 Q You thought you did more than five? 7 A Yes, than five. 8 Q Okay. Do you know how many you 9 thought you did? 10 A Beg your pardon? 11 Q Do you know how many you thought you 12 did? 13 A No, I don't but I thought there were 14 considerably more than five. 15 Q How many isomers are there in 1242? 16 A Well, I can't answer the isomers. I 17 can tell you that there is the average is 18 42 percent chlorination. There are some with 19 less chlorination and some going up to 54. 20 There is a whole series of various 21 chlorinations. The configuration of the 22 different chlorines on the benzene rings which 23 would form the isomers I don't know. 24 Q Okay. Could you disagree or agree 25 that strike that. 212 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009523 1 Would you agree with me that there 2 are 70 known isomers in Aroclor 1242? 3 A I can't hear you when you are talking 4 out the window. 5 Q Oh. Would you agree that there are 6 70 known isomers in Aroclor 1242? 7 A I'm not certain of the number. I 8 don't know. 9 Q Does that sound about right to you? 10 MS. RUTTER: Counsel, on the record, 11 another witness has been designated on this 12 topic. I'm going to allow a few more a 13 very few more questions in this area but he is 14 not the witness designated on this area. 15 MR. RACE: That's fine, Counsel. 16 Thank you. And I thank you for that. I'll 17 tell you where I am going with this. I'm 18 trying to understand what number of tests were 19 conducted in the context of the chemistry of 20 the Aroclor involved so it is sort of relevant 21 and it will be if you will bear with me just a 22 few seconds. I'm not going to spend a lot of 23 time on it because I want to go eat lunch. 24 Q So you don't know whether or not the 25 number of Aroclors strike that. 213 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009524 1 You don't know the number of isomers 2 within Aroclor 1242? 3 A No, I do not. 4 Q Is it not true that there are a large 5 number of isomers in 1242 even though we don't 6 know the specific number but only a small 7 portion of those are actually considered 8 toxic? 9 A I don't think that toxicity data has 10 been established. 11 Q Okay. So you do not know whether 12 only a percentage of the total isomers that 13 are contained within 1242 are toxic? 14 MS. RUTTER: Objection to the 15 overbroad, vague and confusing form of the 16 question. 17 A I didn't say that. I said I did not 18 know that the toxicity of the various isomers 19 have been selectively tested or that toxicity 20 is known. The 1242, we manufactured it over 21 the years, was quite the toxicity tests on 22 the acute toxicity were pretty constant and I 23 don't know whether the isomers changed or not. 24 Q Okay. That is my question. Isn't it 25 possible, Doctor, that when you make an 214 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009525 1 Aroclor, that it may have any combination of 2 isomers, a set of isomers in it over which you 3 have no control? 4 MS. RUTTER: Objection, you are far 5 beyond his area right now. You are into an 6 area on which another witness has been 7 A I can't answer that. 8 MS. RUTTER: designated. 9 Q Is that something that's important to 10 know, that the toxicity of the same compound 11 may vary from batch to batch when you that 12 piece of information is important to know when 13 you are making the determination of how many 14 tests to run and the nature of the tests to 15 run to find out whether or not a substance is 16 toxic? 17 MS. RUTTER: Objection to the vague, 18 confusing and overbroad form of the question. 19 A I don't think it is important because 20 we ran enough to assure ourselves that our 21 material at various years of production was 22 quite close in the toxicity evaluation. 23 Q You ran five 1242 tests; is that 24 correct? 25 A I don't know if that's all that there 215 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009526 1 were. As I said, it surprised me that there 2 were only five. 3 MS. RUTTER: Let the record reflect 4 that it is Counsel's characterization that 5 there are only five, plaintiff's Counsel's 6 characterization. 7 MR. RACE: Off the record. 8 (Discussion off the record) 9 Q I want to make sure, Dr. Kelly, that 10 we have covered all the areas. You never 11 inspected the IBT facility, did you? 12 A Yes, I did. I was 13 Q You did. And you considered it a 14 first class operation? 15 A No question about it. 16 MS. RUTTER: You did cover that topic 17 yesterday, Counsel or not yesterday but on 18 May 31st. 19 MR. RACE: Okay. 20 Q Monsanto was the only producer of 21 PCB's in the United States; is that correct? 22 A That's correct, to the best of my 23 knowledge. 24 Q And the toxicity tests conducted 25 by the only toxicity tests conducted on 216 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009527 1 PCB's prior to, oh, '69 were by Monsanto, as 2 the sole producer; is that correct? 3 MS. RUTTER: Well, objection, 4 mischaracterizes the prior testimony. You 5 went to great lengths to establish that 6 Monsanto hadn't done its own testing. Your 7 question had Monsanto 8 Q Testing on behalf of Monsanto. 9 Monsanto paid for them. 10 A Yes. What year did you say, prior to 11 when? 12 Q '69. 13 A '69. Well, Kimbrough did some 14 testing. 15 Q Yes, other than Kimbrough, that's 16 what I'm trying to get. 17 A The National Cancer Institute did 18 testing of 1254, prolonged testing. I don't 19 know the exact date of that. 20 MR. RACE: That's all the questions I 21 have. 22 MS. RUTTER: Mr. Wunderlich, do you 23 have anything? 24 MR. WUNDERLICH: Not at this time. 25 MS. RUTTER: I have a couple of 217 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009528 1 clarifications. 2 EXAMINATION 3 QUESTIONS BY MS. RUTTER: 4 Q Dr. Kelly, on May 31st when you 5 started your deposition in this case, Mr. Race 6 asked you some questions and I believe you 7 testified that under certain conditions 8 involving high temperature and oxygen, the 9 pyrolysis of PCB's containing trichlorobenzene 10 could conceivably result in the production of 11 dioxin; is that correct? 12 A Yes. With high temperature and 13 trichlorobenzene together? 14 Q Yes. 15 A There is a certain window that 16 dioxins could be formed but as far as I 17 recollect, as far as I remember, we did not 18 know that that occurred before 1974. 19 Q So you are saying that was not known 20 while you were medical director? 21 MR. RACE: Object to the leading 22 nature of the question as to form. 23 MS. RUTTER: Okay. 24 A Yes . 25 Q Was that information of which you 218 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009529 1 were aware while you were medical director? 2 MR. RACE: Object to the form. 3 MS. RUTTER: What's your objection as 4 to form? 5 MR. RACE: Form. 6 MS. RUTTER: No, what is your 7 objection as to form? 8 MR. RACE: Leading the witness. 9 A What information? 10 Q During the time that you were medical 11 director at Monsanto, was it known that under 12 some conditions the pyrolysis of PCB's 13 containing trichlorobenzene could conceivably 14 result in the production of dioxin? 15 A Yes was it known it was not 16 known, no. 17 Q Okay. It was not known while you 18 were at Monsanto? 19 A That's correct. 20 Q Did you know Westinghouse's medical 21 director? 22 A Yes. 23 Q What was his name? 24 A T. Lyle, Lyle, Hazlett, 25 H a z 1 e t t. 219 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009530 1 Q Did you and Dr. Hazlett speak from 2 time to time while he was medical director of 3 Westinghouse and you were medical director of 4 Monsanto? 5 A Yes. We met at conventions. I do 6 not recall any particular telephone call where 7 he talked about any specific problem but I did 8 at these meetings ask him if he was having any 9 trouble with PCB's and he said no. 10 Q Do you recognize the name Wilbur 11 Spiker? 12 A Yes, I do. 13 Q Who is Wilbur or who was Wilbur 14 Spiker? 15 A He is, is or was, a member of the 16 Westinghouse Electric industrial hygiene 17 group. He had previously been an industrial 18 hygienist for some Midwestern state and our 19 industrial hygienist had considerable 20 correspondence with him over the toxic 21 properties of the safe handling of PCB's. 22 Q And what is the name of Monsanto's 23 industrial hygienist who had this? 24 A Albert Wheeler. 25 Q And Mr. Wheeler worked for you in the 220 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009531 1 medical department? 2 A That's correct. 3 Q Does the name Dr. Von Ottengen mean 4 anything to you? 5 A Yes. He was a very prominent 6 toxicologist who I believe worked for the 7 government but he spent most of his 8 professional career at DuPont. 9 Q What was the name of DuPont's 10 laboratory? 11 A Haskell Laboratories. 12 Q Are you familiar with any tests that 13 Dr. Von Ottengen ran on PCB's or Inerteen? 14 A Yes. I was not familiar with it 15 while I was working with Monsanto but I have 16 seen the reports at depositions following my 17 retirement. 18 Q Do you remember approximately the 19 year of those studies? 20 MR. RACE: I'm going to object. 21 Since this witness has been instructed not to 22 answer any of my questions subsequent to 1974 23 and his retirement, I object to his now 24 testifying at the behest of defendants for 25 years for which he was not allowed to testify 221 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009532 1 when I questioned him. 2 Subject to the objection, go ahead 3 and answer. 4 Q Do you remember the time frame of the 5 studies? 6 A The time frame? I thought it was the 7 mid thirties . 8 Q Okay. These von Ottengen tests on 9 Inerteens were not tests that Monsanto 10 A He tested the Inerteen and he also 11 tested the trichlorobenzene separately. 12 Q All I'm trying to ask is did Monsanto 13 to your knowledge participate in or sponsor or 14 pay for those tests? 15 A No, sir no ma'am. No. 16 MS. RUTTER: Okay. That's all I 17 have. 18 MR. RACE: Fine. 19 MS. RUTTER: He will read and sign. 20 21 22 23 24 25 222 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009533 1 COMES NOW THE WITNESS, ROBERT EMMET 2 KELLY, M.D., and having read the foregoing 3 transcript of the deposition taken on the 6th 4 day of June, 1994, acknowledges by signature 5 hereto that it is a true and accurate 6 transcript of the testimony given on the date 7 hereinabove mentioned. 8 9 10 11 ROBERT EMMET KELLY, M.D. 12 Subscribed and sworn to me before this 13 day of , 1994 . 14 My Commission expires: 15 16 17 18 Notary Public 19 20 vw 21 22 Bechtold, et al. V. Monsanto, et al. 23 24 25 223 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009534 1 State of Missouri 2 SS. 3 City of St. Louis 4 I, Victoria L. Wilson, a Notary Public in 5 and for the State of Missouri, duly 6 commissioned, qualified and authorized to 7 administer oaths and to certify to 8 depositions, do hereby certify that pursuant 9 to Notice in the civil cause now pending and 10 undetermined in the Circuit Court of the City 11 of St. Louis, State of Missouri, to be used in 12 the trial of said cause in said court, I was 13 attended at the offices of Husch & 14 Eppenberger, 100 North Broadway, Suite 1300, 15 in the City of St. Louis, State of Missouri, 16 by the aforesaid witness; and by the aforesaid 17 attorneys; on the 6th day of June, 1994. 18 The said witness, being of sound mind and 19 being by me first carefully examined and duly 20 cautioned and sworn to testify the truth, the 21 whole truth, and nothing but the truth in the 22 case aforesaid, thereupon testified as is 23 shown in the foregoing transcript, said 24 testimony being by me reported in shorthand 25 and caused to be transcribed into typewriting, 224 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009535 1 and that the foregoing pages correctly set 2 forth the testimony of the aforementioned 3 witness, together with the questions 4 propounded by counsel and remarks and 5 objections of counsel thereto, and is in all 6 respects a full, true, correct and complete 7 transcript of the questions propounded to and 8 the answers given by said witness; that 9 signature of the deponent was not waived by 10 agreement of counsel. 11 I further certify that I am not of 12 counsel or attorney for either of the parties 13 to said suit, not related to nor interested in 14 any of the parties or their attorneys. 15 Witness my hand and notarial seal at 16 St. Louis, Missouri, this day of 17 , 1994. 18 My Commission expires March 14, 1997. 19 20 Notary Public in and for the 21 State of Missouri 22 23 24 25 225 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009536 1 COURT MEMO 2 CIRCUIT COURT OF THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS 3 STATE OF MISSOURI 4 JUDITH BECHTOLD, et al. , 5 vs. CAUSE NO. 922 00911 6 MONSANTO COMPANY, et al. 7 8 CERTIFICATE OF OFFICER AND 9 STATEMENT OF DEPOSITION CHARGES 10 (Rule 57.03(g)(2)(a) & Sec. 492.590 RSMO 1985) 11 DEPOSITION OF ROBERT EMMET KELLY, M.D. 12 TAKEN ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFFS 13 June 6th, 1994 14 15 Name and address of person or firm having 16 custody of the original transcript: 17 THE MURRAY LAW FIRM 18 909 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2550 19 NEW ORLEANS, LA 70112; 20 TAXED IN FAVOR OF: 21 THE MURRAY LAW FIRM 22 909 POYDRAS STREET, SUITE 2550 23 NEW ORLEANS, LA 70112 24 105 pages of original & copy @ $3.20 $336.00 25 Attendance of reporter & Jurat 81.00 226 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009537 1 Delivery 2 Total $ 3 4 TAXED IN FAVOR OF: 5 HUSCH & EPPENBERGER 6 100 North Broadway, Suite 1300 7 St. Louis, Missouri 63102 8 105 pages of copy @ $1.20 $126.00 9 Delivery 10 Total $ 11 12 TAXED IN FAVOR OF: 13 LEWIS, RICE & FINGERSH 14 500 North Broadway 15 St. Louis, Missouri 63102 16 105 pages of copy@ $1.20 $126.00 17 Delivery 18 Total $ 19 Upon delivery of transcripts, the above 20 charges had not yet been paid. It is 21 anticipated that all charges will be paid in 22 the normal course of business. 23 GORE & PERRY REPORTING CO. 24 100 North Broadway, Suite 1175 25 St. Louis, Missouri 63102 227 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009538 1 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my 2 hand and seal on this day of 3 1994. 4 My Commission expiresMarch 14, 1997. 5 7 Notary Public 228 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009539 [& - accepted] Transcript Word Index & & 123:3 124:12,18 224:13 226:10,24,25 227:5,13,23 0 00911 121:17 122:18226:5 057303 166:20 130,000 200 186:20 205:25 188:13 1300 200,000 123:4 124:13 224:14 227:6 188:25 193:11,24 196:20 14 218 225:18 228:4 125:4 150 22 156:23 177:2 166:20 17th 24 209:1 127:23 057317 18th 245d 166:21___________________ 179:22 127:22 1 1936 245t 1,000 134:25 127:21,24 128:13,16 200:23 1944 129:13,21 1.20 179:22 24d 227:8,16 1946 127:20,23 128:12,16 1.5 170:13 171:2 172:18 189:17 1950's 129:13,21 2550 10 157:7 163:6 124:7 226:18,22 151:19 166:20 1954 25th 10,000 131:10,12 192:5,15 193:8 163:23 200:20,22 100 123:4 124:13 166:16 193:19 1955 170:13 280 166:6 3 224:14 227:6,24 1956 3.20 105 161:8 194:17 226:24 226:24 227:8,16 1966 30.000 1090 209:1 192:19 163:22 164:1 1969 300 11 163:24 164:22 201:14 188:15 151:19 202:2 205:11,15 206:10 31st 1175 227:24 209:19 1970 216:18218:4 336.00 12:30 181:8 226:24 207:11 1974 37 120 145:1 156:17 164:19 178:17 177:2 121 182:13 197:16218:18 221:22 38 178:18 121:1 1242 1985 226:10 4 158:20 168:15 169:2 1987 400 177:24 211:8,11,12,20,22 144:25 124:19 188:15 212:1,3,15 213:2,6 214:2,5 1994 42 214:13,20 215:23 121:25 123:6 210:19 223:4 212:18 1244 223:13 224:17 225:17 492.590 211:6,10 226:13 228:3 226:10 1252 1997 4th 210:3 225:18 228:4_____________ 201:14 1254 25 168:16 169:3 177:22 217:18 126 125:3 126.00 227:8,16 2 121:15 122:16226:10 2:00 207:25 208:1 20 176:5 5 168:15 169:2 50 185:21 188:1 209:16,24 500 227:14 54 212:19 56 165:10 168:19,20 57.03 226:10 59 205:16 6 6 121:25 63102 124:14 227:7,15,25 63105 124:20 69 164:16 166:20 167:18 217:1,12,13 6th 123:6 223:3 224:17 226:13 7 70 166:5 213:2,6 70112 124:8 226:19,23 70's 156:14 74 134:25 171:17,18 198:10 199:11 75 185:21 188:2,14 8 81.00 226:25 8182 124:19 9 909 124:7 226:18,22 922 121:17 122:18226:5 a able 210:10,22 absence 1997 absolutely 158:2 acceptable 169:1 accepted 168:8,17 177:14 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009540 [account - authored] account agricultural answered 178:9 182:19 192:9 126:19 194:1 195:15 accurate ahead answers 223:5 222:2 225:8 accusations air anticipate 187:9 154:2,6 170:5 176:17 acknowledge airborne anticipated 173:16 129:5,9 199:21 227:21 acknowledges al anybody 223:4 223:22,22 226:4,6 131:4 action albert anymore 148:25 149:14,17 220:24 179:6 181:3 actions allow anyway 144:12 147:22 148:11,12 143:20 198:6 213:12 173:19 actual allowable apologize 134:5 196:15 168:5 170:1 171:24 126:20 134:19,20 169:5 acute allowed apparatus 146:15,20 147:3 181:16 221:25 196:9 201:18,20 208:3,7 209:17 allowing apparently 211:5,17,21 214:22 203:5 160:19 additional altered appearances 157:2 159:3,13,14,17,19 158:6 124:1 address alvin appeared 226:15 164:21 186:10 addressed amazing appears 185:8 207:2 149:17 173:5 199:14 administer america applications 224:7 188:21 181:13 administration american appointed 201:2 165:6 170:3 171:20 186:6 189:14 advices amount appreciation 149:12 177:11 182:17,23 151:14 152:7 159:12 advised amusing appropriate 207:4 204:14 137:4 149:14 afield analysis approved 130:13 185:17,19 190:7 aforementioned analytical approximately 225:2 175:12,14 221:18 aforesaid animal area 126:4 224:16,16,22 166:15 170:12 171:2 172:5 200:3 213:13,14 215:5,6 afternoon 174:4,13,14 175:4,15,17 areas 207:19 176:10 177:9 216:10 age animals aroclor 126:2 182:24 157:20 158:1,5 159:22 210:2 211:6,8 212:1 213:2 agent 161:18 162:10,12,22,24 213:6,20 214:2 215:1 127:24 170:15 172:11,17 174:2 aroclors agree 176:25 177:1,4,6 196:16 163:23 213:25 148:16,18 165:14,22 181:7 answer aromatic 200:4,19 202:10,17 203:20 128:20 129:18 130:14 133:6,24 203:23 204:6,14,20 205:13 136:10 137:19 138:6 arranged 206:11 208:16 212:24 141:16 148:2 150:15,16 187:24 213:1,5 161:25 167:14 171:14 arrive agreement 174:20 190:22 203:10 174:22 225:10 205:4 212:16 215:7 221:22 arrived agrees 222:3 172:4 203:4 art 137:13,18 article 171:5 asked 157:13 159:19 169:6 193:25 195:14 197:11 218:6 asking 151:11 152:17 160:25 163:4 183:21,23,25 197:15 202:10 203:3 204:14 asks 152:3 aspects 182:19 associated 131:20,23 association 131:19 assuming 186:19 assure 215:20 attach 186:25 attached 186:15,17 attempt 154:2,5 175:8 176:2 182:12 190:9 191:25 198:4 203:9 attempted 172:3 attendance 226:25 attended 224:13 attention 153:19 157:16 187:1 attorney 185:2 225:12 attorneys 224:17 225:14 attributable 162:8 attributed 128:12,14 161:18 august 179:22 australia 155:7,9 author 167:19203:12,14 authored 211:1 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009541 [authority - cheap] authority beck breathe cases 175:25 176:1 207:13 142:8 128:4,18 131:15,18,22 authorized beer breathing 144:1 146:17 181:14 224:6 166:8,11 149:16 cast available beg bring 176:14 179:18 130:4 136:1 149:25 180:18 187:1 categorized avenue 181:19 184:11 195:21 brings 198:6 124:19 212:10 188:12 catholic avenues behalf broad 133:12 191:11 123:2 208:5 217:8 226:12 206:4,6 cause average behest broadway 129:25 130:20 134:3 212:17 221:24 123:4 124:13 224:14 227:6 144:18 159:21 165:23 avoid beings 227:14,24 224:9,12 226:5 126:16 142:5,6,15 143:12 170:1 175:10 202:20 brought caused 143:18 144:5,10 145:23 belief 153:19211:10 130:10,16 131:7 132:10 148:7,8,13 149:1,5,7,16 144:25 146:24 brown 134:6 136:13 224:25 187:10210:15 believe 184:7 188:5 causing avoiding 147:5 152:25 194:4,17 brush 135:4 149:8 209:22 211:21 218:6 221:6 127:25 cautioned aware believed budget 224:20 127:17 163:11 171:1 167:17 190:1,4,10 caveat 173:25 219:1 believes bulletins 158:12 b 162:8 138:4,10,16,17,18,24 149:1 century back benzene burn 134:13,22 141:19 147:25 148:5,19 150:17 157:7 163:6 165:11 180:1 185:13 134:9,11 135:3,8,12,16 212:22 benzenes 127:4 business 180:5 190:13 227:22 185:22 bag 134:16 benzol c call 184:23 ballpark 193:21 209:20 134:8 best 216:22 133:13 153:23 207:14 220:6 calls bandied 178:5 better 137:25 130:11 170:9 174:16 cancer barrett 169:7 beyond 215:5 182:6,10,14,17,21 217:17 cancers baseball big 182:23 206:2 based 187:14 133:7,12,13,14,16 166:8 billing 138:11 carcinomas 155:25 156:3,9 career bases 174:9 basis 165:5,6 172:13 175:4,19,24 biphenyl 133:20 biphenyls 133:23 221:8 carefully 148:1 224:19 carol batch bit 124:11 154:22 157:10 215:11,11 bates 154:18 161:2,9,11 166:20 180:22 183:20 208:25 137:25 bloomington 152:4,6 bottom 160:19 carried 149:21 188:12 carry bear 188:23 188:25 213:21 becl35733 box 161:15 carrying 198:17 209:1 bechtold brain 163:12 case 126:4 128:5 144:22 164:5 121:3,4 122:4,5 223:22 226:4 break 141:2 184:10,13207:11,18 171:25 196:11 218:5 224:22 136:15 certain 158:2 166:16 172:11 174:8 213:7 218:7,15 certainly 171:25 176:25 200:23 201:17,22 certificate 226:8 certify 224:7,8 225:11 chance 184:15 change 152:19 changed 168:23 207:5 214:23 changes 178:13,18 characterization 216:4,6 characterizations 187:7,9 charge 201:1,2 charges 226:9 227:20,21 Charles 121:13 122:14 chatted 156:19 cheap 192:21 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009542 [check - counsel] check coming configuration control 182:20 161:14 212:21 159:22 162:10,12,22,24 chemical comments confined 215:3 127:19 134:6 147:8 188:19 163:23 142:9 184:19 controls chemicals commission conformity 157:25 158:3 132:20 140:8,22 171:24 223:14 225:18 228:4 182:15 conventions 192:7,9,12 196:1 199:24 commissioned confounding 220:5 chemistry 224:6 182:19 convey 213:19 committee confusing 143:15 chloracne 138:21 129:16 167:12 173:16,17 conveyed 127:7,16 128:11,18 130:10 company 178:16 197:25 201:12 143:4,19 130:17,20,24,25 131:9,9,16 121:19 122:20 124:10 211:14214:15215:18 copies 131:19,24 132:10 134:2,4,9 143:7 226:6 conjecture 160:15 161:13 134:12,23,24 135:4 136:7 comparable 130:12 170:10 174:17 copy 136:13,22 144:22 146:7,13 185:23 conjunction 180:15 226:24 227:8,16 146:21,25 147:9,10 155:14 compare 131:1 139:14211:1 corporate 155:18 158:4 consider 130:13 chlorinated complete 177:13 199:11,12201:21 corporation 132:13,16,18,22 133:1,4,6 211:4 225:6 considerable 121:21 122:22 189:6 133:19,19,22,24 134:15 component 220:19 190:13 191:14 135:3,7,11,16 136:6,8,14 130:19 considerably correct 136:16,20 composition 129:12212:14 126:25 129:2 130:3,5 132:1 chlorination 209:11 considered 132:2,4,5 133:6,14,24 212:18,19 compound 146:7,9 214:7 216:13 135:6,17 136:3 137:5,6 chlori nations 131:6 135:12 162:9 215:10 constant 138:19 139:12 140:24 212:21 compounds 214:22 141:5,6,8,13,23 142:2,11 chlorines 129:13 194:5 construed 142:12 146:14 147:23 212:22 comprehensive 157:21 155:15,16 156:14,24,25 chronic 195:2,5 contact 159:4 161:22 165:2,9 165:14,17,18 192:5,13 conceivably 129:5 142:7,16,18 143:13 167:25 168:6 170:3,4,7 199:16,20 201:20 208:4,12 218:10219:13 143:17,19,21,24 144:6,10 171:3 174:4,25 177:4,16 208:13 concentration 144:16,18 145:3,18,21,24 178:2,3 179:8 180:6,10,13 circuit 168:5 170:1 171:24 146:1,2,23 147:2 148:13 185:14,17 188:21,22 189:3 121:1 122:1 224:10 226:2 concentrations 149:12,16 194:11 189:4,9,10,12,15,21 190:1 city 157:21 165:16,20 contained 190:4,14,18 191:16,21 121:1 122:1 123:5 224:3,10 concept 167:3,9 214:13 192:1,15 193:24 194:19,23 224:15 226:2 192:13 containing 194:24 195:6,9,13,20 196:2 civil concerned 137:17218:9 219:13 196:3,17,18,25 197:7 199:6 224:9 200:10,12 201:20,24 210:2 contains 199:17205:18208:10,14 clarifications conclusion 137:12 208:15,21 209:15 211:2,3,9 218:1 157:18 182:22 contaminant 215:24 216:21,22 217:2 clarify conclusions 130:8 134:7 136:8,12,23 218:11 219:19 221:2 225:6 173:14 193:1 cont'd correctly class condition 121:24 156:22 166:17 225:1 216:14 196:6 198:8 contents correspondence classified conditions 185:7 220:20 133:21,23 135:8 196:5 218:7 219:12 context cost classify conduct 171:10 202:12 203:5 185:16,17,19,20 187:17 201:4,8 197:6 198:7 199:15 213:19 188:1,5,12,16,24 189:2 clinical conducted continuation 190:7 191:16 193:10,12 174:7 178:9 142:1 156:23 157:2 174:2 126:10 194:3,7 close 187:25 195:1 208:8 210:9 continued costs 133:18 137:19 179:19 210:25 211:8,22 213:19 123:1 185:23 187:14,20 190:17 215:22 216:24,25 continuous 190:24 191:25 combination conference 142:7 143:12,19 144:5,9,15 counsel 215:1 165:7 171:20 153:3 124:1 134:17 151:3 153:14 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009543 [counsel - document] counsel (cont.) d depending dioxin 162:1,16 168:12 170:16 d.v.m. 172:14 130:7,9 135:9 136:9 218:11 173:4 183:24 185:6 186:9 169:14 depends 219:14 186:14 187:4,6,8,11 188:8 damage 127:1 133:9 138:24 190:5 dioxins 191:5,8 193:18 200:2 202:4 170:14 171:2 deponent 130:3,5,6,16 132:7 218:16 203:1 204:4,24 205:20,20 dangerous 225:9 director 205:22 207:3 211:24 200:9 deposes 137:4,7 144:12 151:23 213:10,15 216:17 225:4,5 data 126:5 152:12 156:11 175:7 225:10,12 159:18 175:14214:9 deposition 179:11 180:9 183:7 196:22 counsel's date 121:24 123:1 126:11,14 197:23 198:12,15 218:20 173:6,13 216:4,5 154:21 156:18217:19 147:5 160:11 187:11 207:5 219:1,11,21 220:2,3 couple 223:6 218:5 223:3 226:9,11 disagree 217:25 dated depositions 148:17,18 201:25 202:3,10 course 161:8 163:23 166:20 164:14 221:16 224:8 202:17 203:21,23 204:6,15 147:4 149:14 175:23 180:5 179:22 209:1 dermal 204:21 205:14,17 206:11 211:15 227:22 dates 188:11 212:24 court 157:7 163:6 designated disagrees 121:1 122:1 137:21 173:22 day 151:4,5,20 200:3 213:11,14 203:4 224:10,12 226:1,2 123:6 156:23 223:4,13 215:8 discovery courtesy 224:17 225:16 228:2 designation 206:4,6 170:18 204:17 days 130:13 discussed court's 146:20 147:6 177:2 detached 183:17,22 184:1 187:1 ddt 186:10,23 discussion cover 200:5,12,14 determination 154:14,23 157:12 162:20 186:11,12,19216:16 death 215:13 164:8 173:8 189:24 216:8 coverall 165:23 determinations discussions 144:3 deaths 189:7 152:11,15,21 153:10 covered 158:2 161:17 166:13 determine 183:18 141:4 216:10 deceased 128:22 129:3 195:25 disease credit 121:6,9,12 122:7,10,13 determined 161:19,21,22 162:4 163:1 143:7 declined 131:6 134:3,6,7 135:2 diseases critique 203:2 174:2 162:25 163:2 183:9 157:18 defendant determining disputes cubic 124:10,16 128:11 187:7 168:14,15 169:1,2 170:14 defendants develop disseminated 171:3 172:18 121:23 122:24 221:24 147:10 137:9 current defined developed disseminating 173:12 137:13 146:19 147:8 196:23 138:4 custody definitively development distinguish 226:16 128:22 139:1 169:13,17 175:5 155:17 customer delivery 194:9 division 135:20,21 138:10 139:16 227:1,9,17,19 die 190:8 142:1,17,22 143:4,5,6,7,15 demonstrated 176:14 177:6 doc 143:20,23 144:1,4 148:9,11 158:21 died 207:9 customers denotes 177:4 doctor 137:9 138:7 140:11 145:11 188:21 dielectric 129:20 142:13 157:1 147:18,21 148:5,6 149:4,13 department 131:21 209:14 158:23 159:2,12 170:12 150:7 151:1 153:17,23 128:16,16 129:1,7 138:5,6 dielectrical 171:7 173:25 178:12 182:5 154:3 181:10,15,18,21 138:9,13,16 140:16,18 209:5 183:16 184:15 185:7 customer's 150:4,6 151:8 152:1,3 different 202:16 205:8 210:14 149:20 153:20,23 154:1 169:11 152:18 169:23 176:12 214:25 cut 189:11,15,20,25 191:24 212:22 document 161:25 177:17 191:6,7 192:14 195:12 197:5,10,12 differentiate 154:15,19 155:4,13 157:9 197:21 200:25 201:3 221:1 201:16 157:11 158:13,24 159:6 departments difficult 160:18 162:16 163:6,8,10 128:17 129:11 138:12 191:19 163:19,21,24 164:11,18 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009544 [document - extra] document (cont.) effects epidemiological exception (cont.) 166:22 167:3,9,20 170:17 144:19 181:8,20 197:7 175:16 198:16 170:19 179:21 180:1,4,17 effort epiglottitis excess 183:17,23 184:3,21 185:1,5 185:17 146:20 182:23,25 183:1 185:9 186:9,13,15,17,18,20 efforts episode excuse 186:24 188:9 202:5,8,12 171:23 174:24 131:5 146:20 162:2 211:11 203:2 204:8,16,17,25 eight episodes exhibit 206:12 208:23 210:16 158:20 189:19 146:16 147:4 163:22 documents either eppenberger exhibits 160:14,19,25 165:12 162:5 169:12 181:9 196:8 123:4 124:12 224:14 227:5 125:6 186:16,21 206:1,21 200:8,14 201:9 204:22 especially expect doing 205:12 225:12 192:25 182:24 159:23 170:17 207:22 electric essence expenditure dozen 121:20 122:21 124:16 159:23 193:15 128:21,21 220:16 establish expensive dr electrical 167:18 171:13,23 174:1,15 190:6 192:22 126:9,22 152:6,12 155:24 146:18 154:17 176:18 174:24 175:5,6,8,15,18,20 experience 156:16,19,24 157:1,6 159:2 209:4 175:25 176:2 182:13 176:6 178:9 159:13 160:11,12 162:18 elevated 193:10 197:14217:5 experiment 163:4,11 169:7 181:7 142:8 144:11 147:7 176:16 established 195:17 187:23 197:16 203:10,18 elizabeth 164:23 165:2,4,8 168:7,22 experimentation 204:20 207:17,21,22,24 121:4 122:5 171:19 174:12 175:11 172:6 208:14 216:9 218:4 220:1 emmet 176:8 194:16214:10 experimenter 221:3,13 121:24 123:1 126:1 223:1 establishing 196:11 draft 223:11 226:11 171:8,16 178:7 195:10 experiments 137:4 138:15 employ estimate 157:19 drafted 164:18 189:5 209:21 expires 139:4 employee estimated 223:14 225:18 228:4 draw 148:13 182:17 188:24 189:2 explain 157:16 employees et 143:22 172:7,9 176:23 dropped 141:11 146:5 153:16 181:9 223:22,22 226:4,6 explained 159:9 181:10,17 196:23 europe 143:3 146:16 dropping employment 169:10,15 187:18 188:20 exposed 176:13 194:12 198:4,5 evaluation 128:23 146:1 147:23 149:3 drops england 215:22 149:4,11,19 161:18 162:13 159:10 169:9,19 170:7 185:22 eve 163:2 176:13 due english 206:7 exposure 162:4 181:16 170:2 186:3,5 event 147:12 149:7,9,10 158:16 duly ensure 143:16 149:10 158:17,19 171:10 176:15 126:2 224:5,19 137:8 138:17 141:11 151:1 exact 176:16,20 178:13 194:16 dupont 154:6 176:3 217:19 194:21,22 195:8,11 201:21 221:8 entire exactly 201:23 dupont's 154:10 157:9 184:21 133:15 209:10 exposures 221:9 209:13 examination 157:20 164:23 165:16,19 e early 156:14 178:14 easily 1644 eat 21323 economically 1939 Cl ICvl 194:22 entirely 152:18 205:21 entitled 154:16 163:22 entity 197:12 environment 177:15 environmentally 200:9 epa 144:20 171:18 125:3,4 126:7 146:4 198:20 176:17 181:16 218:2 expressed examinations 159:18 198:18 extended examined 146:2 224:19 extensive example 135:23 127:7 185:16,20 extent exceed 135:25 136:2 193:24 extra exception 173:20 144:22 146:15 147:3 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009545 [extremely - handing] extremely find (cont.) founded going (cont.) 206:14 186:22 196:4 215:15 203:8 180:23 181:3 184:18,25 extrusion findings four 190:6 203:6,9,18,19 206:15 176:14,14 196:9__________ 174:7 146:17 166:4,18 179:17 206:20 207:6,16 208:6 f fine 186:1 210:11 212:19213:12,17 facilities 126:13 143:2 152:20 frame 213:22 221:20 126:24 152:23 153:12 154:11 213:15222:18 205:1 222:4,6 golden 154:3 155:6,8 facility 145:17 151:14 195:25 fingersh 124:18 227:13 finish front 206:23 full 142:10 147:13 good 197:18 216:11 fact 128:15 143:24 149:9 158:9 186:12 192:17 199:15 207:16 finished 165:13 187:3 191:5 204:18 207:8,10 225:6 fully 194:6 function goodman 121:11,13 122:12,14 gore 227:23 factor firm 137:3,8 138:5 140:16 174:8 gosh 171:9 174:14 177:25 178:7 factors 124:6 196:16 226:15,17,21 first functional 146:18 209:3,6 128:20 gotten 191:22 facts 126:2 144:14 146:14,24 furans 164:12 166:19 181:1 185:9 200:19 192:22 government 167:9,15 failed 148:13 187:22,23 216:14 224:19 furnish five 157:11 210:1,7,21 211:5,19,21,25 further 171:20 174:22 175:6,21 177:17221:7 governmental fair 135:4 138:14 212:2,6,7,14 215:23 216:2 216:5 157:19,22 158:9 180:16 225:11 174:9 grade familiar 131:13 171:15,17 172:2 178:19 179:16,21 221:12 fluid 176:20 209:4,7,14 fluids gee 206:5 g 209:4 grams 166:4,6 172:18,19 221:14 family 146:18 209:9,17 fold general 140:23 179:1,2 187:12 great 217:5 133:5,7,8,10,12,12,13,14 133:17 far 171:8 following 221:16 generally 178:22 195:16 generically greater 199:20 grossly 128:14 130:12 144:4 200:9 200:11 201:19,23 215:4 follows 126:6 129:14,19 geographical 206:13 group 218:16,17 fashion foregoing 223:2 224:23 225:1 129:10 getting 152:18 160:24 162:13 174:9 182:24 220:17 186:17 form 188:14 groups fast 184:22 fatalities 129:16 135:19 137:11,17 141:15 147:24 158:10 159:5 167:12 171:12 giggling 204:12 give 161:18 163:2 guess 209:23 157:24 158:3 favor 226:20 227:4,12 feasible 175:19 178:16 181:12,23 190:20 197:25 201:12 211:14,23 212:23 214:15 215:18 218:22 219:2,4,5,7 135:19 143:5 149:6 163:10 166:14 172:11 175:4,24 guessing 193:22 177:11 180:21 193:21 203:19 206:22,23,24 210:7 half h 144:6 formed 210:21 128:21,21 159:16 177:18 field 176:18,19,20 191:12 fifties 127:12 132:4 165:9 185:14 218:16 forth 225:2 forties given 149:12 189:25 190:10 211:17,19 223:6 225:8 giving 207:4,7,17 hallmark 146:7 hand 194:17 178:14 179:7 189:15 203:25 204:5,17 205:25 127:4 154:15 163:21 figure 187:18 figures 172:3 175:12,13 forwarded 138:19 found 158:18 159:23 172:17 210:15 166:18 183:18225:15 go 228:2 184:1 207:15 213:23 222:2 handed going 188:8 find 153:3 164:4 176:21 177:8 177:3,5 178:18 182:16 212:3 153:5 154:15 157:14 166:18 169:5 173:18 handing 186:9 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009546 [handled - intention] handled hereunto infections 141:11 151:2 228:1 ibt 157:25 159:21 162:6 handling high 199:16208:14216:11 inform 139:17,21 140:7,22 141:8 177:23 182:9 218:8,12 idea 140:17 148:11 154:17 178:10 220:21 higher 166:3 167:19 186:7 information handwriting 185:25 186:2 identify 141:10 153:18215:12 166:25 highlighted 183:17 205:1 218:25219:9 handwritten 157:4 162:17 illinois informed 166:19 hired 127:11 126:25 127:8 141:3 151:8 hanging 173:9 illness infractions 207:13 hitting 199:8 151:16 happened 196:8 illnesses ingredient 203:16 hold 159:21 162:8 127:23 130:7 happens 191:25 immediately inhalation 149:2 holding 142:25 143:1 144:11 145:18 146:2 147:2 happy 190:17,24 191:15 important 156:23 177:1 188:14 171:6 hope 191:22 199:9 215:9,12,19 201:19 hardy 207:8 impossible inhaled 169:14 hot 153:4 147:6 harm 176:13 196:9,9 improperly inherent 141:13 172:13 174:13 hotline 153:17 201:16 harmed 153:22 inasmuch initially 172:17 hour 162:9 207:3 harmful 207:4,6,17 inaugurated injury 181:8,20 hours 138:8 146:8,11,13 155:15 158:21 harms 207:7 incidence 174:3 172:12 house 182:9 input haskell 189:8 193:10 195:20 included 140:21 221:11 huh 141:7 inquiring hazlett 173:20 212:4 incomprehensible 201:13 219:24 220:1 human 205:3 insects head 170:1,2 171:10 175:9 independent 200:13 169:7 189:11,14 191:24 202:20 163:16 171:22 174:24 inspect health humans index 150:25 144:19,23 178:20,23 179:2 166:13 177:15201:5,9 125:1 182:7 inspected 179:7,20,22 202:1 204:22 indicate 150:6,9 216:11 hear husband 208:19 211:6 inspection 131:11 137:15213:3 121:7,12 122:8,13 indicated 151:13 heard husch 161:17 inspections 178:5 123:3 124:12 224:13 227:5 individual 151:12 152:22,25 153:12 hearing hydraulic 126:25 152:8 153:13 137:22 176:19 individuals institute heat hydrocarbon 128:23 129:6 139:16 140:6 217:17 147:6 181:14 133:6 industrial instituted heated hydrocarbons 144:24 165:7 171:21 151:15 196:8 133:24 192:12201:1 220:16,17,19 instructed heed hygiene 220:23 199:5 221:21 139:7 201:1 220:16 industries instruction hepatitis hygienist 154:17 173:13 147:8 220:18,19,23 industry instructions herbicides hygienists 167:25 180:13 154:16 129:23,25 130:1,2,10 165:7 171:21 inerteen intelligence hereinabove hypothesizing 135:13,17221:13222:10 143:8 223:7 211:25 inerteens intention hereto hypothetical 222:9 126:20 139:5,10 223:5 211:24 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009547 [intercurrent - lot] intercurrent jurat know (cont.) 157:25 159:20 162:6 226:25 205:5 207:12 209:3,10 interested jury 210:4,6 212:8,11,23 213:8 225:13 161:22 173:19__________ 213:24 214:1,6,11,18,23 internal k 140:13 kaley internally 207:21,22,24 140:11 interpret 133:16 keep 129:21 kellie interpreted 211:25 interrogatories 126:6 121:8 122:9 kelly 121:24 123:2 126:1,9,22 152:6,12 156:19 157:6 interrupted 159:2 162:18 163:4,11 134:18 investigation 181:7 187:23 197:16 203:10,18 204:20 207:17 189:1 208:18 involved 216:9 218:4 223:2,11 226:11 196:24 213:20 involving 157:19211:20 218:8 kemper 144:20 kenneth irrelevant 186:18,24 121:7 122:8 kept isomers 212:15,16,23 213:2,6 214:1 214:5,12,18,23 215:2,2 180:5 kidney 170:15 issue 143:15 165:11 187:2 kids 133:11 item 194:4 kill 166:11 215:10,12,25 217:19 218:18219:20 knowledge 139:20 147:16 151:12,24 151:25 216:23 222:13 knowledgeable 185:2 195:17,18 known 135:13 136:13 178:1 192:14201:6,10,17202:1 202:21 204:22 205:13,15 213:2,6 214:20 218:19 219:11,15,16,17_________ I la 124:8 226:19,23 lab 189:8 193:10 196:20 labeling 138:21,22 labels 138:20 148:25 laboratories 208:8,17 221:11 laboratory 194:6,7 221:10 large _____________ J killer 182:15 214:4 james 127:24,25 late 160:11,12 kilogram 199:16 job 166:5,6 law 183:7 kimbrough 123:3 124:6 226:17,21 joe 156:13,16217:13,15 lawful 160:1 164:4 204:13 kimbrough's 126:2 join 155:24 156:9 laying 182:1 knew 185:10 joseph 198:19,20 lays 124:4,5 knock 152:9 journal 172:25 Id50 178:22 know 166:4 188:1 jr 127:10 128:15 129:9 132:6 Id50's 121:13 122:14 132:9,23 136:10,25 139:23 185:20 judge 140:4 144:7 148:8 149:3,18 leading 206:2,3 149:20 150:5,18,21,24 150:9 218:21 219:8 judgment 152:5,14 154:7 155:3,5,12 leaking 156:5 193:9 158:22 160:24 164:17,21 146:19 judith 167:21 169:16,17,18,21 leave 121:3 122:4 226:4 177:23 178:6,8 179:4,12 153:4 193:4 june 181:4 184:8 185:18 186:11 lee 121:25 123:6 161:8 201:14 187:13,16,16 192:8 194:2,2 121:8 122:9 223:4 224:17 226:13 198:11,22 199:24 200:22 left 203:5,12,16,23 204:13 135:1 156:12 173:11 legal 137:12,18 lengths 217:5 lesions 155:18 162:22 163:12 letter 186:19 level 158:16,17,18 159:24 172:12,18 174:3,12 176:21 177:3,6,16,18,20 194:16 196:1,12,12,14 levels 167:24 175:9 177:2,8 194:21,22 195:8,11,18 lewis 124:18227:13 limit 168:2,3 172:14 limited 135:24 136:2 188:19 limiting 127:2 limits 164:23 line 154:10209:13 list 130:13 151:19 179:15 196:23 199:1 listen 140:3 148:1 liter 158:21 literature 175:23 little 137:24 158:25 166:10 173:16,17 192:22 liver 170:15 171:2 long 163:5 168:17 194:16,21 195:8,10 look 126:17 157:8,8 184:12,16 185:4 210:8,12 looked 174:6 183:4 looking 146:22 160:24 171:9 lost 141:17 lot 179:5 213:22 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009548 [louder - monsanto's] louder march (cont.) mehler mission 158:25 228:4 164:21 131:10,12,15,18 132:3 louis marked member missouri 121:1 122:1 123:5 124:14 125:8 160:3,9 163:22 164:1 133:14 220:15 121:2 122:2 123:5 124:14 124:20 194:10 224:3,11,15 market memo 124:20 173:3,12 193:7 225:16 226:2 227:7,15,25 187:15,15 186:11,12 226:1 224:1,5,11,15 225:16,21 louisiana marketing memorandum 226:3 227:7,15,25 173:4 138:5,11,16 139:3 203:13 mixed lower marking men 135:12 136:2 157:20 158:16,16,19 160:1 128:16 mixes lunch maryland mention 135:15 207:11 210:17 213:23 124:19 126:18 157:15 moderate lung material mentioned 200:11 161:22 182:10,14,17,21 148:9 149:16 158:7 162:5 147:4 188:16 223:7 money lyle 178:10 196:8 201:17 met 190:14,16,24 191:11,12,14 219:24 215:21 220:5 192:3 m materials 180:12 metal 176:13 monitor 179:11,13 121:24 123:2 126:1 223:2 223:11 226:11 matter 185:8 192:17 matters meter 168:14,15 169:2,3 170:14 171:3 172:18 monitoring 146:4 mons040440 222:15 204:13 maximum methods 174:5 154:18 mons07 167:25 168:4,7,17,20 169:1 168:4 169:25 171:23 175:9 micrograms 169:23,25 170:6 172:14 174:1,15 175:25 176:3 171:8,9,13 175:5,20 mcc 187:24 mcl 188:16,21,24 158:20 172:20,21 mid 165:9 185:14 222:7 188:17,18 middle 180:25 mons076181 181:1 mons096370 161:12 169:18 171:16,19 174:25 mcs 175:5,6,15,18 176:7 178:7 209:7,11,13 mcs90 204:8,15 206:20 midwestern 220:18 mons95218 183:20 monsanto 179:14 208:18 209:2 mean mild 200:10 121:19 122:20 124:10 126:24 130:24 131:3 1826 133:9,16 139:23 140:5 142:13 148:24 157:10 milligram 168:14 169:1 132:21 134:24 135:15 138:12 139:19 140:12,23 189:7 190:23 191:11,11 206:10 215:13 173:2 185:18 191:6 203:15 milligrams 221:3 168:15 169:2 170:14 171:3 means 172:22 177:23 141:3 142:1 144:13 145:3,5 145:6,7,12,15,17 146:4 147:11,14,15 149:13 150:1 182:24 128:10 139:11 142:16 172:25 mind 132:15 156:18 224:18 150:6,24 153:16,17,22 154:5 155:3,6 156:6,8 127:3 144:7,8 149:4,18 166:6,15 manciQ6rn6ni 143:6 measured mine 177:11 159:10 medical minimum 126:23 127:3 137:4,7 138:6 188:1,10 138:9,13 144:12 146:4 minute 164:19,22 166:20 168:8,18 169:9,10,15 170:6 171:22 174:24 175:8,8,22 176:3,7 180:6,10 181:9,15,17,18,21 183:19 187:6 188:19 189:2 141:12 149:18 148:11 149:12 150:3 151:8 162:14 184:10,13 203:13 151:23 152:1,3,12 153:19 203:14 190:12 192:5 194:13 195:22,24 196:1,17,19 13611 19624 153:23,24 154:1 156:11 minutes 159:3 169:11 175:7 179:11 206:25 197:1,2,12 198:5,7,12 199:15 206:5 208:5,9 127:20,21 128:7 129:4 214:20 180:9 183:7 189:20,25 mischaracterized 192:14 195:12 196:22 206:8 197:22 198:7,12,14 200:25 mischaracterizes 216:20217:1,6,7,8,9 219:11,18220:4 221:15 222:9,12 223:22 226:6 13T1 13517 14922 1766 198:18 201:2 218:20 219:1,10,20 220:2,3 221:1 marrh meetings 163:23 164:16 225:18 140:15,19 141:5 220:8 148:15 159:6 175:2 181:24 monsanto's 191:18217:4 145:19 151:13,14 152:7 misleading 154:1 183:12,13 220:22 150:10 153:1,7 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009549 [months - oxygen] months notary (cont.) obtaining okay (cont.) 134:12 228:7 191:15 212:24214:11,24 216:19 mother note obviously 218:23219:17222:8,16 121:10 122:11 170:21 187:12 138:20 139:24 200:12 old move noted occasional 134:13 136:5 154:11 165:12 203:9 128:11 130:25 131:9,10 128:5 144:22 once moving 132:3 163:3 174:3 178:13 occupational 142:14,20,22,23 174:12 143:14 181:9 182:9 206:17 183:8 179:14 murray notice occur ones 124:4,6 207:22,25 226:17 224:9 146:21,21 165:15,18 197:14 226:21 november 181:20 operate n 198:9 199:10 occurred 177:15 name 219:23 220:10,22 221:3,9 number 142:7 154:18 161:2 166:14 127:11 132:4 156:12 162:10,11,12 181:15 operation 147:7 176:12216:14 226:15 183:20 208:25 213:7,18,25 182:21 218:18 operations names 167:2,4,5,7 169:6 214:1,5,6 numbers occurs 149:10 146:19 148:8 150:25 opinion naphthalene 132:13,16,23 133:2,4,19 151:19 numerous October 167:18 209:1 129:25 156:2 168:23,25 193:8 211:7 136:6,9,14 naphthalenes 133:22 187:7 oath o ocular 188:11 officer opposed 140:11 186:5 187:15 opposition nation 182:15 126:10 oaths 226:8 offices 167:18 oral national 217:17 nature 224:7 object 134:17 152:24 153:5 154:9 123:3 224:13 official 199:1 126:5 orange 127:24 215:14 218:22 necessary 181:11 202:25 204:23 206:15211:13,23 218:21 oh order 127:9 140:13213:5 217:1 151:1 174:1 176:3 187:10 141:11 148:20 199:11,13 219:2 221:20,23 need objected 150:17 163:7 185:4 194:25 137:17 okay 197:6,13 126:9,20,22 128:1,10 original 129:13,24 132:1,6 135:2,24 226:16,24 195:7 207:11,12 needed objection 129:15,17 130:11 135:18 136:4 137:7,22,24 138:14 Orleans 138:23 139:4,10,19 140:6 124:8 226:19,23 158:5,19 167:17 needs 137:11,14,15,16,20 141:14 147:24 148:14 150:8,11,13 140:21 141:10 142:10,15 osha 142:21,22,24 145:2,13,22 171:18 202:11 150:14 153:3,13 158:10 145:25 147:1,17 148:10 ottengen nevertheless 173:19 new 159:5 167:11,13 170:9,11 171:11 174:16,19 175:1 178:15 181:22 182:2 150:5 153:8,16 154:8 155:12,24 156:16 158:8 159:25 160:22 161:4,7 221:3,13 222:8 ounces 166:7 124:8 226:19,23 nina 121:10 122:11 non 190:19,21 191:17 193:25 195:14 197:24 200:6 201:11 202:24 203:7,8 204:19 206:17 214:14 163:16 164:6,10,17,22 165:1,4 166:2,10,18,24 168:4,20 169:14,18,25 170:5 171:1 172:2,16,23 outbreak 134:1,4 outbreaks 127:6,16 128:2,3 131:9 131:20 209:13 215:4,17 217:3 219:3,7 173:14,24,25 174:11 outlined nonelectrical 181:13 209:7,8 normal 180:5 227:22 222:2 objectionable 206:14 objections 175:17 176:9,23 177:14 178:4 179:25 180:8,16 181:2,6 182:9 183:2 184:7 184:9 185:13,20,23 187:2 187:23 outside 184:23 191:12 195:22,25 196:17 north 225:5 187:13 188:4 189:19 190:9 overbroad 123:4 124:13 224:14 227:6 objects 227:14,24 196:8 190:12 191:3,13,23 192:4 192:17 194:15 195:10 141:15 171:12 174:17 181:23 190:20214:15 notarial 225:15 observe 150:25 196:15,22 197:20 199:4,14 215:18 201:4 203:21 204:1,3,18 oxygen notary observed 123:8 223:18 224:4 225:20 146:14 163:12 208:2,7,16,22 209:2,8,16 218:8 209:25 210:24 211:4 212:8 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009550 [pack - producer] P pcb's (cont.) picking poydras pack 139:22 140:23 141:8,12 194:3 203:1 124:7 226:18,22 160:19,21 142:2,11,18 146:18 147:6 picks ppo page 147:12,23 148:13,24 159:10 135:13,17 125:2 166:19 173:20 181:1 149:21 150:7 151:1 153:17 piece practical 184:17,19 185:9 202:8 154:17 164:24 165:20,22 215:12 157:17 203:1 204:8,16 206:23,24 165:25 166:13 168:13 place practice pages 169:20 172:1 175:16,18 128:24 140:18 144:14 173:3 206:14 166:19 173:21 225:1 176:11 178:13,17 181:9 placed pre 226:24 227:8,16 184:24 196:4,24 197:14 134:15 138:17,21 171:17 paid 198:21,23 199:20 200:4,15 plaintiff present 217:9 227:20,21 200:21 201:5,8 202:1,20 187:8 206:4,7 171:4 papageorge 204:21 205:12 210:20 plaintiffs presumably 150:18,20 151:5,9,20,25 216:21 217:1 218:9 219:12 121:15 122:16 123:3 124:3 174:6 152:5,15,22 153:11 207:15 220:9,21 221:13 226:12 pretty 207:18 pending plaintiffs 184:5,22 207:8 214:22 paragraph 224:9 163:22 206:6 216:5 prevent 188:23 pentachlorphenyl plant 148:23 pardon 132:14,19,24 136:18,19,21 127:11,17 128:8 149:20 previously 130:4 136:1 149:25 180:18 people 152:4,6 197:8 126:19 137:2 163:21 181:19 184:11 195:21 138:12,22 139:1,2,3 147:5 plants 174:23 199:14220:17 212:10 171:13 174:22 175:6 178:6 149:5,24 150:2,4,7,19,21 price part percent 150:22 152:13 198:18 192:18 133:8 135:23 137:3,8 183:7 166:16212:18 plasticizer prices 186:15 191:23 194:7 percentage 176:18 186:3,5,6 partially 214:12 please pricing 201:6,10 202:21 204:22 performed 135:20 140:3 141:20 185:19 205:13 208:5 147:25 157:7 163:7 193:3 prior participate period 203:20 148:15 164:19 168:20 222:13 135:19 146:3 201:13 point 170:13 171:19 175:2 181:8 particular periodic 151:7 157:14,14 173:17 181:24 182:13 191:18 130:2 135:22 158:7 160:18 198:20 poisoning 208:14217:1,4,10 182:24 196:5,6 197:9 permit 165:15,18 probably 203:13 220:6 203:10 policy 191:10 particularly perry 145:4,19 147:12 150:25 problem 194:17 200:8 227:23 153:18 156:6 148:24 160:14 190:5 220:7 parties person polychlorinated problems 225:12,14 149:3,15 226:15 133:23 126:23 127:3,10 140:1 pathological personal population 142:5 144:23 146:23 178:12,18 121:5,8,11 122:6,9,12 182:18 153:24 162:23 177:7 pathologist personally portion 181:15 156:1,5 152:13 138:2 141:21 148:3,21 procedure pathology personnel 157:4 162:17 214:7 173:3,12 196:10 177:13 196:13,16 141:3 189:20 197:5,11,21 position procedures pay peruse 146:12 149:5 151:22 156:8 149:21 151:15,17 152:8,9 222:14 184:9 positive 175:13 pcb pet 166:14 186:21 process 128:12 129:7 131:1,21 136:17 possession 131:2 172:3,5,8 133:5 134:25 135:23 phrased 211:9 produce 144:24 146:8 154:3 165:16 181:23 203:11 205:2 possibility 132:22,24 133:1 135:8 197:6 198:8,18 209:9,17 phyllis 129:8 136:7 170:14 210:2 121:10 122:11 possible produced pcb's physically 130:18 136:9 214:25 136:22 137:1,2 160:10 127:13,18 128:7,14,24 129:11 post 186:16 196:1 208:3 129:4 130:19 131:19,23 physicians 171:18 producer 132:7,10 135:12,16 139:17 189:19 198:17 216:20 217:2 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009551 [produces - registered] produces purpose race (cont.) recognize (cont.) 132:21 126:17 167:22 176:10 154:22 156:18 157:10 191:13220:10 product 180:11 206:16 160:3,6,10,16,20 161:1,7 recollect 138:25 139:6 168:11 191:1 purposes 161:11,15 162:2 163:9,19 143:25218:17 191:15 157:17 175:18 164:2,6 170:20,23 172:24 recollection production pursuant 173:7,9,14,24 180:21 182:3 154:25 155:2 163:14,17 126:23 135:23 140:16,17 224:8 183:13,25 185:6 186:14 164:14 170:24 141:3 215:21 218:10 put 187:5 191:6,19 193:2,4 recommend 219:14 144:20 179:4,8 202:11 197:17 202:6,14 204:10,18 139:15 142:3 144:13 146:3 products 205:1 205:22,25 206:17,22 207:8 158:9 159:14,17 138:18 187:25 190:17 pyrolysis 207:15 208:2,25 209:25 recommendation professional 218:9 219:12_____________ 211:15212:4 213:15216:7 157:22 123:7 194:12 221:8 q 216:19 217:20 218:5,21 recommendations profit qualified 219:2,5,8 221:20 222:18 139:20 147:18,21 191:2,3,15 224:6 ran recommended program 139:15,16,24 140:5 141:25 quarter 207:25 208:1 175:3 177:1 196:3 215:20 215:23 221:13 141:24 142:4 151:17 154:16 157:2 158:15 159:3 142:4 programs question 129:16 130:15 131:22 range 192:19 159:13 170:6 177:19,21 record 139:21 140:7 project 137:24 135:19 137:12,20,21 138:8 140:2,3 141:2,15,18 143:22 145:2,16 147:11,25 148:1 rate 182:14 rats 138:2 141:21 148:3,21 154:13,14,22,23 157:11,12 161:5,10 162:19,20 164:7,8 prolonged 157:19217:18 148:10 149:2 150:17 153:9 158:11,23 159:1,6,8,12 166:4 192:6 read 170:22 173:7,8 186:8,14 187:1 188:7 189:23,24 prolonging 187:10 prominent 163:5,10 167:12 171:12,14 173:5,11 178:16 181:12,23 182:4 190:20 197:25 138:2 139:6,8,9 141:19,21 202:25 203:7 205:21 207:3 147:25 148:3,19,21 150:17 213:10216:3,7,8 161:10 173:18 184:21 records 221:5 proper 201:12 203:10 204:24 205:2,2 211:14,16,24 204:10 206:21,25 210:16 197:13 198:4,6 222:19 223:2 refer 135:8 properly 151:2 214:16,24 215:18216:15 217:7 218:22 questioned reading 170:16 204:7,24 208:17 really 129:22 180:9,11 184:5 reference 164:4 properties 220:21 222:1 questioning 194:2 realm referred 129:14 130:1,2 167:24 proposed 138:25 154:10 questions 195:11 reason referring 161:8 193:18202:4,7,13 propounded 126:8,15,18 136:5 138:6 150:21 159:14 169:22 203:24 126:6 225:4,7 proved 176:6 152:18 160:25 180:17 181:3 184:18 208:6 213:13 217:20 218:3,6 221:22 196:21 211:7,20 reasons 191:10 refers 205:5 reflect provided 189:6 199:25 public 123:8 178:19,22 179:2,7,19 225:3,7 quick 136:5 quite recall 188:7 216:3 136:12 156:22 157:3 reflects 164:12 168:21 169:7 184:3 161:5 184:4 185:7 192:20 210:19 refuse 179:22 223:18 224:4 129:20 186:21 214:21 210:19 220:6 206:12 225:20 228:7 published 131:12 180:12 pull 215:22 quote 137:18,19 192:18 quoted receive 139:11 received 183:19 refused 204:25 refusing 204:9 206:20 186:3,6 187:14___________ recess regarding pulmonary 154:24 184:14 152:22 153:11 161:19,21 162:4 163:1,2 r recheck regardless purchasing race 194:25 158:18 142:2 124:5 125:3 126:8 134:19 recognize registered purely 141:19 148:16 151:7,12,22 154:19 163:24 164:10 123:7 192:11,11 152:7,14,19 153:2,8 154:11 166:21,23,24 167:2,10 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009552 [regular - serious] regular requested (cont.) rough samplings 134:23 159:3 197:4 209:21 154:2 related requests routinely sauget 149:2 183:8 225:13 206:5,6 138:10 127:11,17 128:8,12 relating research rsmo saw 212:1 139:1 169:13,16 194:9 226:10 153:16 164:12,15 relationship resolved rugs saying 129:10 133:18 136:24 134:8 129:21 142:24 157:17,23 relevance respect rule 159:23210:18212:2 154:10 136:16,20 139:17 140:22 226:10 218:19 relevancy 147:21 151:16 185:10 rules says 158:22 respects 142:11 147:13 126:5 162:7,21 188:1,11 relevant 225:6 run 203:15 205:5 181:4 213:20 responded 175:15,17215:14,15 schemes remained 206:5 rutter 185:10 187:23 194:22 responsibility 124:11 125:4 129:15 scott remarks 191:24 195:12 130:11,21,23 134:17 164:2 225:4 result 135:18 137:11,16 140:10 seal remember 141:13 160:11 194:18 141:14 145:5 147:14,24 225:15 228:2 129:10 182:18 193:20 218:10219:14 148:14 150:8,16 151:3,10 sec 218:17 221:18 222:4 results 151:18 152:2,10,16,24 226:10 repeat 161:16211:18,19 153:5 154:9,20 156:10,17 second 126:15 137:21 198:3 retest 157:6 158:10,13 159:5 134:13 162:17 184:13 repeated 195:7 160:8 161:25 162:3,15 seconds 142:6,13,16,19 143:12,16 retired 163:4 167:11 168:11 170:9 213:22 143:18,20,24 144:5,10,15 164:19 182:13 197:16 170:16,21 171:11 173:2,10 seeing 145:3,17,23 146:1,23 retirement 174:16 175:1 178:15 155:1 149:11 165:15,19 176:15 168:10 183:3 194:23 180:25 181:6,22 183:11,21 seen 176:17 221:17,23 184:20 185:4 186:8 187:3,6 164:5,13,18221:16 repeatedly revealed 188:7 189:23 190:19 191:4 segregate 204:25 174:13 191:17 193:3,6,17,25 197:5,9,13 198:4 repetitious review 195:14 197:1,15,18,24 selectively 200:6 163:8 181:4 183:23 198:9 200:2,6 201:11 202:3 214:19 rephrase reviewed 202:7,15,24 204:4,12,23 self 211:16 179:25 209:23 205:20,23 206:3,19 207:2 127:2 reply rice 207:10,20,23 208:1 209:22 sell 126:5 124:18 227:13 211:13,23 213:10214:14 191:3 report richard 215:4,8,17 216:3,16 217:3 selling 131:10,12,15 159:2 179:22 124:17 194:8 217:22,25 218:3,23 219:3,6 190:16 191:1,2 reported rid 222:16,19 send 131:18 224:24 144:4 s 138:9 206:4 reporter right 123:7 137:21 138:3 141:22 132:17 139:25 148:6 148:4,22 173:22 226:25 156:15 168:3 170:20,23 Sttf6 139:21 140:22 141:7 158:18 159:24 164:23 sent 160:18 206:7 sentence reporting 184:17 185:15 189:22 167:23 171:10 175:9,12 157:16203:1 227:23 reports 166:12 178:20,23 179:2,8 179:20 210:25 212:1,2 194:20 195:23 210:5 213:9 215:5 rightly 134:20 176:6,21 177:5,8,13,17 194:16 195:8 196:1,5,12,14 22021 safety separate 186:12 separated 129:12 221:16 rings 140:15,19 141:5 151:14,17 separately representative 121:6,9,11 122:7,10,12 212:22 robert 152:8,9 178:7 171:9 176:3 177:25 222:11 series request 173:10 197:20 121:24 123:1 126:1 223:1 223:11 226:11 sake 161:21 209:7 212:20 serious requested 138:2 141:21 148:3,21 role 135:4 sampling 154:6 127:3 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009553 [service - sufficient] service skin spend stating 179:19,24 180:2 142:7 143:9,11,13,17,19,21 196:20 213:22 205:10,11 set 143:24 144:6,15 145:18,24 spent Stephen 153:22 189:8 211:4 215:2 146:1,2,23 147:2 149:11,16 221:7 121:4 122:5 225:1 228:1 155:18 spiker stop seven slides 220:11,14 145:20,20 133:11 155:24 156:9 spoke stopped sharing slight 156:20 182:5 134:12 202:9 127:4 sponsor straight shorthand slightest 222:13 140:25 224:24 186:7 sponsored street shortly small 175:22 124:7 226:18,22 183:2 214:6 sponsoring strenuously show smiles 190:8 202:25 155:25 156:2 163:15 171:5 173:22 spoonful stricken 203:2 204:9 206:13 smoking 142:25 173:5,13,15 showed 182:20 ss strike 156:9 171:2 soaked 224:2 132:8 142:16 146:11 shower 144:3 St 147:19 155:13 156:7 143:1 sold 121:1 122:1 123:5 124:14 168:23 172:24,25 173:1,9 showing 150:7 124:20 194:10 224:3,11,15 173:18 193:2,5,6 212:25 170:18 202:13 sole 225:16 226:2 227:7,15,25 213:25 shown 217:2 stamp studies 170:13 224:23 somebody 154:18 161:2,10,11 166:20 156:13 159:4,13,15,17,19 shuffled 175:19 180:20,22 208:25 174:13 175:4 176:10 177:1 186:16,22 someplace stamped 192:6,14,19 198:7 199:16 shuffling 180:15 188:16 183:20 199:20 208:4,7,9,12 209:17 206:1 somewhat stands 211:6 221:19 222:5 sign 157:20 186:2 168:4 study 146:24 222:19 soon start 156:20,23 160:7,8 161:8,17 signature 207:9 145:6 207:18 163:13 192:10 194:18 223:4 225:9 sorry started 208:13,20 211:5 similar 152:20 218:5 stuff 141:25 sort starting 166:7 similarity 213:20 207:23 style 162:21 sound starts 193:7 simple 193:9 210:5 213:9 224:18 187:19 subject 129:20 142:5 source state 129:17 130:14 137:14,20 simply 134:3 121:2 122:2 123:5 162:11 150:11,12,14 153:13 158:23 159:1 spaces 203:6,18 220:18 224:1,5,11 157:18 159:22 167:13 sir 142:9 224:15 225:21 226:3 170:11 174:19 185:8 126:21 127:1,15 128:6,25 speak stated 190:21 208:20 222:2 129:8 131:25 133:3,25 158:13 159:7 163:19 220:1 158:17 subscribe 134:5 135:10,14 139:13,18 specific statement 179:13 140:9 141:9 146:6 150:23 129:7 134:5 136:12 140:23 135:5 138:15 144:19,25 subscribed 153:15,21,25 154:4,7 149:6 163:5 170:17 181:24 165:6 187:12,22 202:6,8,11 223:12 156:21 161:20 163:18 214:6 220:7 202:11,16,19 203:4,6,19,19 subsequent 164:9,20 166:23 167:1,21 specifically 204:1,2,5,7,15,20,24 205:8 221:22 179:9 180:3 182:8,11 183:1 156:17 197:5 205:9,18 206:10,12 226:9 substance 183:10 184:4 187:21 188:3 speculation statements 132:7,9 136:22,23 208:19 189:13,16,18 190:2,11,15 130:12 170:10 174:17 149:6 167:16 173:6 206:19 215:15 197:19 198:16 199:3,12,18 speech states substantial 200:1 208:11 210:18 187:4 162:12 169:20 170:7 146:1 222:15 speeches 185:24 187:17 189:3 sufficient sixties 187:11 216:21 144:17,18 165:16,19 127:12 199:17 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009554 [sufficiently - treon] sufficiently 195:2,5 suggest 172:16 198:5 suit 225:13 suite 123:4 124:7,13,19 224:14 226:18,22 227:6,24 summary 157:15 159:19 supplier 134:10,11,13,14,23 support 175:14 supposed 207:20 supposition 199:23 sure 159:20 160:23 161:5 164:20 167:8 168:21 177:24 180:14 183:16 184:5 191:2 206:4 216:9 surface 176:13 surprised 216:1 swallow 166:1 swallowed 166:10 swallowing 165:22,25 166:13 swan 131:5 132:1 134:2 sworn 126:2 223:12 224:20 symptoms 177:12 systemic 146:13 155:15 t 197:21 tactic 205:24 121:25 123:2 126:11 147:22 148:12 197:21 199:1 223:3 226:12 1448 14512 13 15210 184:23 196:10 talked 167:23 208:11 220:7 talking tests times (cont.) 140:10 145:7,10 149:8,9 157:2 162:23 170:13 171:2 200:20,23 161:6 178:25 183:11 205:7 174:1,1 185:11 186:1 today 213:3 187:24 188:11 195:1,4 137:1 208:3 tamewitz 197:7 210:2,7,9,20,25 told 121:5,7 122:6,8 211:1,5,8,18,22 213:18 148:7,23,25 152:12 181:14 taxed 214:21 215:14,14,23 182:6 206:9 226:20 227:4,12 216:24,25 221:12 222:8,9 top telephone 222:14 169:7 220:6 thank topic tell 129:24 134:1 136:19 138:1 151:4,5,19213:12216:16 143:8 144:1 149:15 171:6 182:4 206:17 213:16,16 topics 176:9 191:7,8,9 203:20,22 thereto 141:4,7 151:18,21 210:8,14,22 212:17213:17 225:5 total telling thing 214:12227:2,10,18 142:17,21,23 144:4 150:2,3 127:2 139:25 155:21 totally 152:16 188:4 165:13 186:18,24 temperature things toxic 218:8,12 142:5 162:5 184:23 200:5,8,12,15,16,20,23 temperatures think 201:22214:8,13 215:16 142:8 144:11 147:7 176:16 133:17 136:24 143:18 220:20 temporary 148:19 150:9 153:6 158:6 toxicity 155:18 160:6 169:6 174:21 175:3 158:7 185:11 187:14,19,24 ten 175:11 177:22 179:14 189:1,8 193:10 199:19 166:7 171:8,9 174:14 180:3 182:16,16 184:18 200:10,11 201:5,8,16 202:1 177:23 178:1,8 192:24 200:7,8,14,18 201:15 203:7 202:19 204:21 205:12 206:25 204:13 205:15 207:16 208:4 211:18,21 214:9,18 tenure 214:9 215:19 214:19,21,22 215:10,22 197:22 thirties 216:24,25 term 134:2 222:7 toxicological 137:12,18 150:9 153:1 thought 208:18 194:16,21 195:8,10 135:3 136:21 145:10 toxicologist test 188:15212:5,6,9,11,13 221:6 157:7 158:1 161:16 162:5 222:6 toxicology 162:22 170:15 188:1,6,10 thousand 195:18 tested 142:20 training 162:6 192:9 194:5 214:19 three 139:16,21,24 140:5,7,21 222:10,11 146:17,20 147:6 173:21 141:25 142:3 testified 184:17 transcribed 130:23 137:3 155:14 threshold 224:25 174:23 194:15 199:15 168:1 172:14 transcript 208:7 209:16 218:7 224:22 thrust 173:6,11 209:23 223:3,6 testify 141:17 224:23 225:7 226:16 126:3 151:24,25 221:25 time transcripts 224:20 130:22 135:19,21,22 145:1 227:19 testifying 146:3 147:9 153:6 155:14 transfer 221:24 156:10,19 157:8 160:6 147:7 181:14 testimony 163:7 164:16 168:10 171:4 transpose 148:15 175:2 181:25 172:15 173:22 176:7 166:5,15 191:18 200:15 206:9,16 179:24 180:24 182:5 184:2 treated 217:4 223:6 224:24 225:2 192:21 197:22 198:11,13 158:4 testing 199:10201:13205:1 treon 157:22 158:9 175:15,17 209:11 213:23 217:24 156:20,24 157:1 159:2,13 192:6,10,11 193:16 196:4 219:10 220:2,2 222:4,6 160:7,8 161:8,17 163:13 201:18,19,19217:6,8,14,18 times 177:18,20 194:18 195:1,4 217:18 137:23 142:20 192:24 196:11 208:14 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009555 [treon's - workers] treon's undetermined 165:5 175:21 224:10 trial unfair 164:2 206:7 224:12 153:7 205:21,23 206:1,13 trichlorobenzene unfairly 218:9,13219:13222:11 204:6 tricker union 178:17 197:8 tried united 143:25 183:17 169:19 170:7 185:24 trisler 187:17 189:2 216:21 121:8,10 122:9,11 unknown trouble 201:5,9 202:20,22,23 220:9 203:15 204:22 205:6,12 true unnecessarily 131:8 135:7,11,13 157:1 187:10 161:16,24 163:1 170:12 upside 171:7 174:11 178:12 192:4 204:11 199:19 210:1 214:4 223:5 urgent 225:6 190:7 truth use 126:3,3,4 159:16 224:20,21 138:25 150:8 152:24 224:21 158:15 169:19 171:8 try 172:13 175:12 177:25 126:16 137:24 159:11 195:16,24 206:15 209:7,8 165:12 190:9 users trying 137:10,13,19 139:5 204:5 206:11 210:15,16 uses 213:18217:16222:12 146:18 turn usually 136:14 138:4 twice utilize 142:18 169:22 194:6 type utilized 149:17 174:14 types 140:6 typewriting 224:25 u V vague 135:18 141:15 167:11 171:12 174:18 178:15 190:20 197:25 201:11 u.k. 211:13214:15215:17 187:14 validate u.s. 159:18 144:20 187:15 188:10 value uh 168:2 212:4 vapors ultimately 144:11 139:2 various unanswerable 162:25 176:25 185:10 205:3 187:23 212:20 214:18 undefined 215:21 137:18 vary understand 215:11 126:12 160:13 198:1 victoria 213:18 123:6 224:4 viewpoint westinghouse (cont.) 158:6 153:12 199:25 220:3,16 violation westinghouse's 144:9 147:13 151:13219:20 visited we've 152:5 180:14 visits whatsoever 152:3 153:11 155:2 vogue wheeler 172:15 200:24 220:24,25 voice whereof 159:9 228:1 volatilization wife 196:7 121:3 122:4 volume wilbur 121:15 122:16 220:10,13,13 von william 221:3,13 222:8 151:4 vs wilson 121:17 122:18226:5 123:7 224:4 vw window 223:20 213:4 218:15 w wipe wait 144:2 162:14 203:13,14 waived 225:9 wish 186:25 wit want 126:15 129:21 140:25 126:6 withdraw 151:7 152:14 160:23 172:16 173:4 192:2 196:12 196:12,20 213:23 216:9 163:9 182:3 witness 145:14 151:3,21,23 154:25 wanted 158:1 159:20 173:15 170:18 181:5 186:9 188:8 202:9 203:3,3,5 204:6,16 warning 138:15 139:4,6,11 146:24 213:11,14215:6 219:8 221:21 223:1 224:16,18 warnings 225:3,8,15 228:1 137:2,5,9 138:19 139:14 143:14 144:10 wash witnesses 207:13 word 144:3 waste 192:2 ways 152:25 153:4,6 209:24 words 133:5 142:15 146:9 158:8 work 190:23 191:14 128:24 158:5 165:5 175:21 weed 127:24 week 126:11 137:23 183:22 178:17 190:3,9 196:15 worked 197:14 220:25 221:6 worker 184:1 143:5 145:23,25 146:16 went 134:10,13,22 138:11 149:11 200:11 201:22,23 workers 150:18,20,21 217:5 westinghouse 134:25 144:24 145:5,8 146:17 147:23 174:7 176:4 121:20 122:21 124:16 151:15,16 152:11,23 176:7 178:10 183:12,14 197:6,9,13 198:8,19 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009556 [working - younger] working 128:17 129:6 175:13 196:5 196:6,14 198:12,14,20,22 198:25 221:15 write 173:1 writer 167:17 written 193:1 wrong 164:15 wunderlich 124:17 160:1,5,13,17,22 161:4,9,13 162:19 163:25 164:3,7 173:21 180:19 181:11 182:1,25 208:23 217:22,24________________ y yeah 166:9 173:24 year 188:13,25 192:5,10,11,13 192:18 193:16,17 199:16 201:18217:10221:19 yearly 193:12,15 years 176:5 178:11 179:17 214:21 215:21 221:25 yesterday 216:17,17 younger 208:8,17 Kelly, R. Emmet M.D. (frmr Mons Med Dir) in BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000009557