Document ZnpG0Rwj8BjO5qBvdy97zoz98

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 a 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF TENNESSEE COLUMBIA DIVISION KATHERINE JOYCE BREWER, et al . , Plaintiffs, -vs- MONSANTO CORPORATION, et al. , ) Nos. 1-88-008 and ) 1-88-0014 through ) 1-88-0368 ) Judge Wiseman Defendants. DEPOSITION OF JACK T. GARRETT Taken on behalf of the Plaintiffs December 21, 1988 KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY Registered Professional Reporters 408 Olive Street, Suite 316 St. Louis, Missouri 63102 (314) 621-8883 KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043420 !ii INDEX Direct examination by Mr. Cuker Page 3 I I i Parties stipulated to attachment of first and last pages only of lengthy exhibits. WATER PCB-SD0000043421 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF TENNESSEE COLUMBIA DIVISION KATHERINE JOYCE BREWER, ) e t....a I". ,..................... ) ..... 4) Plaintiffs, ) Nos. 1-88-008 and 5 ) 1-88-0014 through -vs- ) 1-88-0368 6 ) Judge Wiseman MONSANTO CORPORATION, ) 7 et al., ) 8 Defendants. ) 9 DEPOSITION OF JACK T. GARRETT produced, sworn ' and examined on the 21st day of December, 1988, 1 0 between the hours of eight o'clock in the forenoon , and six o'clock in the afternoon of that day, at the ! 11 Karpowicz Reporting Company Conference Room, 314 I North Broadway, 11th Floor, in the City of St. Louis, i 12 State of Missouri, before Gwen A. Huffman, a : Registered Professional Reporter, and Notary Public j 13 within and for the County of St. Louis, State of Missouri, in a certain cause now pending in the 14 United States District Court, for the Middle District j of Tennessee, Columbia Division, between Katherine : 1 5 Joyce Brewer, et al., Plaintiffs, and Monsanto | Corporation, et al., Defendants, taken on behalf of ; 16 the PIaintif f s. I 17 APPEARANCES 18 SLAP, WILLIAMS & CUKER One Franklin Place, Suite 960 19 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19102-1227 BY: Mark R. Cuker, Esq., .... For the Plaintiffs. 20 SMITH, HELMS, MULLISS & MOORE 21 500 NCNB Building P.0. Box 21927 22 Greensboro, North Carolina 27420 BY: David M. Moore, II, Esq., . For the Defendant 23 Monsanto Corporation. 24 KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043422 1 KING & SPALDING 2500 Trust Company Tower 2 Atlanta, Georgia 30303 BY: Richard A. Schneider, Esq. 3 J. Kevin Buster, Esq., . . . For the Defendant D u r a c e 11 4 International. 5 DEARBORN & EWING One Commerce Place, Suite 1200 6 Nashville, Tennessee 37239 BY: M. Clark Spoden, Esq., . . . For the Defendant 7 Emhart Industries, Inc. 8 9 IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED by and 10 between Counsel for the Plaintiffs and Counsel for 11 the Defendants, that this deposition may be taken in 12 shorthand by GWEN A. HUFFMAN, a Registered 13 Professional Reporter and Notary Public, and 14 afterwards transcribed into typewriting, and that the 15 signature of the witness is not waived. 16 17 JACK T. GARRETT, 18 of lawful age, being produced, sworn and examined on 19 behalf of the Plaintiffs, deposes and says: 20 DIRECT EXAMINATION 21 BY MR. CUKER: 22 Q. Mr. Garrett, my name is Mark Cuker. I 23 represent a group of workers at the former Waynesboro 24 plant of P. R. Mallory & Company. And I'm going to 2 5 be asking you some questions about your work for KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043423 1 Monsanto in the area of PCBs. 2 If at anytime you don't understand any 3 of my questions, will you let me know and I'll 4 rephrase the question? Will you let me know? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Okay. Have you testified in any of the 7 PCB litigation involving Monsanto? 8 A. I don't recall. I've been in so God 9 damn many and given so many depositions, I don't 10 recall . 11 Q. You don't recall if it was a PCB? 12 A. Not specifically. 13 Q. When did you retire from Monsanto? 14 A. 1985. December 1st, 1985.Three years 15 ago. 16 Q. What was your position? 17 A. Director of industrial hygiene and 18 health se rvice s. 19 Q. How - 20 A. And health information services. I'm 21 s o r ry. 22 Q. At the corporate level? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Were you working in the corporate 25 medical department? KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043424 D 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. 3 hygiene? How long were you director of industrial 4 A. Ten years. Since 1 975. 5 Q. Okay. And before 1975, what positions 6 had you held? 7 A. I was manager of industrial hygiene and 8 pollution abatement. 9 Q - -Was that in the medical department or - 10 A. Yes, in the medical department. 11 Q. What was the difference from that and 12 di.rector of industrial hygiene? 13 A. Well,in Monsanto structure, and this is 14 true of very many companies, since -- in the 1 5 pollution abatement function, up through the -- in 1 6 through the '60s and into the early '70s was handled 1 7 on the state level by the state health department's 18 division or department of sanitary engineering. And 1 9 because of that, most companies began their pollution 20 control activities in their health departments 21 because that's where it was in the states. 22 In my case, ninety percent of the states 23 of the twenty-six states Monsanto operated in, and I 2 4 dealt with the health department, a division of the 2 5 state health department. And it's true to this day. KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043425 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 In many, many states, it still is. Q. Did you report to a director of industrial hygiene? A. Yes. Q. And who was that? A. Elmer Wheeler. Q. Elmer Wheeler? A. Elmer Wheeler. - Q, How long were you manager of industrial hygiene and pollution control? A. Well, because of the very small department at the time, I didn't even know what my title was half the time, depending on the grade levels. Because we operated as individual professionals that got together periodically to discuss common problems. Q. Let me perhaps rephrase the question. How long were you working as an industrial hygienist at the corporate level? A. From 1953. Q. Through 17 5? A. Through -Q. Well, through '85? A. Through actually '85, yes. Q. In a capacity of not being chief of the I I I KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043426 / 1 department, be '53 through '75? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And how much of that time were you 4 working under Elmer Wheeler? 5 A. All of it. 6 Q. Was he thedirector of industrial 7 hygiene all of that time? 8 A. He was directorof occupational health. 9 They had a different title for him. But, yes, he was 10 my boss and he was the director of industrial 11 hygiene. 12 Q. Was the director of occupational health 13 the same as the director of industrial hygiene? 14 A. What's in a name. 15 Q. That's what -- my point. 16 A. That was his part of the medical setup. 17 Dr. Kelly took care of the medical part. 18 Q. Okay. Was he subordinate to Dr. Kelly? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Do you know where Mr. Wheeler is today, 21 other than being in the Carolinas? 22 A. He's in Camden, South Carolina. 23 Q. You know how old he is? 24 A. Seventy-three, seventy-four. 25 Q. Okay. KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043427 1 A. . He's had two heart operations, so -- 2 Q. Was Mr. Wheeler involved in the 3 activities of the American Industrial Hygiene 4 Association? 5 A. He was president of it once. ' 6 Q. He was the president of it? 7 A. Vice president, president, yeah. 8 Q. You remember when that was? 9 A. I should because I worked my ass off 10 while he was being president of AIHA. It had to have 11 been in the late '60s. 12 MR. CUKER: Off the record. 13 (A discussion was held off the record.) 14 THE WITNESS: He was -- being president 15 of AIHA took up half his time, literally half his 16 time. He had to visit all the local sections, 17 including the ones in Europe. 18 Q. (BY MR. CUKER) Were you active in AIHA? 19 A. Yes. 2 0 Q. And how were you active in AIHA? 21 A. I was local president and so forth 22 periodically in the local section in St. Louis. I 23 was also the chairman of the membership committee for 24 seve ral yea r s. 25 Q. Did anyone in Monsanto serve on the TLV KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043428 y I 1 committees of ACGIH for PCBs? 2 A. They could not have. 3 Q. Why is that? 4 A. ACGIH is an American Conference of 5 Governmental Industrial Hygienists, and an industrial 6 man could not be on those committees. 7 Q. Okay. AIH A did not have TLV committees 8 for PCBs? 9 A. They have, in recent years, have what 10 they call wheel committees, which is very similar, 11 except the wheel committee produces a document that 12 is more extensive than just the TLV. 13 Q. Okay. And recent years being when? 14 A. Well, you -- the wheel committees 15 probably started somewhere in the late '70s or early 16 '80s. I think late '70s. Probably '79. '78, '79. 17 Q. Did Dr. Roush serve on a wheel 18 committee - 19 A. No. 20 Q. -- for PCBs? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Let me show you an exhibit that's 23 already been marked as Roush Exhibit 2. Do you 24 recognize that document? 25 A. Yes. KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043429 XU 1 Q. You see your name in the lower left-hand 2 corner of that document? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q . What was your involvement with the 5 preparation of that document? 6 A. I wrote it. 7 Q. You wrote it? 8 A. Yes. Or the original one. 9 Q * What was the original one ? 10 A. Well, which date is this? Excuse me a 11 minute. 12 MR. MOORE: '65, I believe e 13 THE WITNESS: I wrote i t. They've since 14 modified it several times with different people. 15 Q. (BY MR. CCJKER) When was it modified for 16 the first time? 17 A. I have no idea. 1 8 Q. Were the different people who modified 19 it Monsanto people? 20 A. No, not necessarily. 21 Q. Okay. Do you know -- I understand not 22 necessarily. Do you know of any -- you specifically 23 know if any specific Monsanto people - 24 A. No, I do not know. 25 MR. CCJKER: Off the record. On the KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043430 11 1 record. 2 Q. (BY MR. CCJKER) You've been deposed a 3 lot of times. You should know that you shouldn't 4 answer my question until I'm done asking it. Okay? 5 Do you know specifically if any Monsanto 6 people were involved with writing revisions of this 7 Roush Exhibit 2, the AIH A guide? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Okay. What was Elmer Wheeler's 10 involvement with this document? 11 A. He and I -- he brought up the material 12 and I wrote it. 13 Q. Okay. Was this doc -- was this sent out 14 to Monsanto customers using PCBs? 15 A. With the documents that Monsanto 16 customers used, yes, it was. 17 Q. I'm sorry, what do. you mean by with the 18 documents that they used? 19 A. The sales document and the like, yes, it 20 was. 21 Q . Okay. 22 A. It was one of those documents. 23 Q. Would it have been routinely sent out to 24 the customers using PCBs? 25 A. It would depend on the salesmen. But it KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043431 i. . 1 was given to the -- sales department had copies of 2 it. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. And I see no reason why they should not 5 have. 6 Q. Okay. Was it sent out through the sales 7 department rather than through the industrial hygiene 8 depa rtment? 9 - A, Initially, yes, 10 Q. Okay. How frequently did you visit the 11 Krummrich pi ant? 12 MR. MOORE: What period of time, Mark? 13 Q. (BY MR. CUKER) Yeah, that's fair. 1 4 Let's say 1969 to 1977. 15 A. I visited Krummrichplantprobably many, 16 many times a year during the early period of my 17 employment until we began to grow larger with 18 assignees. Then the Krummrich plant was assigned to 1 9 another hygienist who reported to me. 20 Q. Okay. '69 to '76, did you have someone 21 reporting to you on the Krummrich plant or were you 22 still going there? 23 A. Part of that time. 24 Q. When would the reporting period have 2 5 started? KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043432 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Sometime in the early '70s, like '70, 1 71 . Q. Okay. After that, how often did you go to the Krummrich plant? A. Oh, probably one or two times a year. Q. Were you familiar with the types of physical examinations performed by the plant physician at the Krummrich plant? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Did he conduct anexamination - was part of his examination geared towards determining whether the employees had liver problems? A. He did a full physical, and had they had liver problems over the yearly physicals, they would have been -- it would have developed, or they would have reported it to the dispensary. Q. Did he order any tests to determine if they had liver problems? A. Not - MR. BUSTER: Are you talking - THE WITNESS: Not in the early part of the period when I was there. Q. (BY MR. CUKER) Meaning what? A. When I did very frequent periods. Q. Which would be what? KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043433 x* 1 A. Up through 1970. 2 Q. Okay. Do you know what he did, whether 3 he began to order liver tests routinely on these 4 annual physicals after 1970? 5 A. I'm not -- I don't know of my own 6 knowledge, no. 7 Q. Okay. Do you know what an SMA-12 is? 8 A. Y e s. ' 9 Q, Do you recall whether an SMA-12 ever 10 became part of the Monsanto standard annual physical 11 within the corporate medical program? 12 A. You'd have to ask Dr. Kelly. We may 13 have done them on some people. Our physical exam 14 program is based on age, occupation. Periodicity 15 was -- I'm sorry, the periodicity and the extent of 16 the exam, let's be careful, were based on age, 17 location, potential exposure. I 18 For example, that was the people in the j i 1 9 plants got annual physicals. All research people got j I 20 annual physicals. People that sat on their duff in j 21 the office got them every two or three years, 22 depending on their age. At a certain point in age, 23 everyone got an annual physical. 24 Q. How about extent of the examination, how 2 5 did that vary ? KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043434 15 1 A. Well, it was a complete exam, chest 2 x-ray, full hands-on exam by the physician, blood 3 test, and any special tests that had been specified 4 for that particular gentleman. 5 Q. Okay. Were there any special tests 6 specified for PCB workers? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Now, the question you suggested I ask 9 Dr. Kelly I asked Dr. Roush yesterday about when the 10 SMA-12 became part of the exam, and his 11 recollection -- his testimony I think was something 12 in the -- approximately the mid '70s, like '75 or 13 '76. Does that refresh your recollection as to when 14 it happened? 15 A. You'd have to decide what the SMA-12 16 means and what happened prior to that terminology. 17 Q. Okay. 1 8 A. In other words, blood examinations for 19 various things were done long before anybody ever 20 used the term SMA-12. 21 Q. I see. 22 A. Or SMA or SMAanything else. 23 Q. So Monsanto may havebeen doing those 24 without calling them SMA-12s? 25 A. We may have been doing a blood exam. To KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043435 lb________ I 1 what extent it was done, I don't know. That's 2 medical business. 3 Q. Okay. Did you consider this document to 4 still be applicable to work place practices in 1976? 5 MR. MOORE: You're talking about 6 Roush 2 ? 7 MR. CUKER: Yeah. 8 THE WITNESS: Personally? 9 Q. (BY MR. CUKER) Yeah, 10 A. Do I consider it that? 11 Q. No, did you. In 1976 - 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. -- did you consider it to still be 1 4 applicable? 1 5 A. Yes. 16 Q. You did? 17 A. Yes. 1 8 Q. Okay. In 1977? Through the time that 19 Monsanto stopped making PCBs. 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. There's areference in thisdocument to 22 elevated temperatures, when these materials are 2 3 subjected to elevated temperatures. 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. You see that? What temperaturedid that KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043436 i/ 1 mean? 2 A. It would depend on the circumstances and ! 3 the equipment involved. If it got to very high 4 temperatures, the material would creep, would creep i 5 through joints and stuff like that, if you know what | 6 I mean. Oil does at very high temperatures. That's j 7 why you get oil drops in your garage and think it's j 8 horrible. The fact is it creeps through the joints f 9 of even tight joints. 10 At very high temperatures, you could 11 elevate -- you could increase the vapor pressure of , 12 the materials irrespective of which one they were, ! 13 depending on the temperature, to the point at where ' 1 4 there was airborne concentrations that would become i 15 what I would consider hazardous. 16 Q. What temperature is thatthat would i i ! 17 increase the airborne concentration? 18 A. Depend on the Aroclor. 19 Q. 1242. 20 A. Oh, hell, I don't remember. : l j 21 Q. Okay. By the way, did you consider this ] 22 also applicable to Aroclor 1016? ; 23 A. Well, 1016 was a lighter material in 24 respect to its vapor pressure. It would be 25 applicable as it would be to low chlorinated Aroclor, KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043437 io 1 like 1236. 2 Q. Did Monsanto follow - 3 A. Or 1242. 4 Q. I'm sorry, did you say - 5 A. 1236, 1242, the early ones. 6 Q. Would it be considered applicable the 7 same for 1016 - 8 A. Yes. 9 Qe -- as itwould be to 1242? _ 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Just so I'munderstanding, in terms of 12 the part here where it talks about "When these 13 materials are subjected to elevated temperatures, the 14 process either should be completely enclosed or other 15 adequate mechanical exhaust ventilation must be 16 provided," if I understand what you're saying, that 17 is not an absolute temperature like a number, that 18 is -- an elevated temperature is a temperature at 1 9 which it will seep out of the joint - 20 A. A temperature at which it is possible 21 for it to exceed the standards on its own without 22 being mechanically thrown around or anything. 23 Most Aroclors at room temperature have 2 4 no vapor pressure. It's so low it does not exceed 25 these. And we did test on these to prove it. It KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043438 19 1 simply does not -- if you sit here, it does not give 2 off enough fumes to register on the analytical 3 equipment available in those days. 4 Q. Did you do any tests to see what kind of 5 fumes are given off at fifty-five degrees centigrade 6 or higher? 7 A. I don't recall. 8 Q. Okay. Or at a hundred degrees 9 centigrade? 10 A. I don't recall. Those probably were 11 done, but I didn't do that and I don't recall. 12 Q Okay. Did you ever work with a Paul 13 Benignus? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q . In what way did you work with him? 16 A. We went to customers from time to time 17 if Elmer wasn't -- was busy or something. ' 18 Q. Did he work in industrial hygiene? 19 A. Who? 20 Q. Mr. Beni gnus. 21 A. No, he was atechnical sales 22 representative. The salesmen went in and bit the 23 customer and Benignus came in and bit him again. 24 Benignus knew how to use it, its characteristics, 25 most of the -- of a great deal of experience in KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043439 zu 1 manufacture and in containment and that sort of j 2 stuff. He was a technical man in the sales 3 department. They're still there. 4 Q. Okay. Let me show you a document that's j ' 5 already been marked Weber 3, Weber Exhibit 3. This j 6 is a fairly hefty manual by Mr. Benignus. 7 A. Uh-huh. 8 Q. Do you recall seeing that -- ! i ' 9 A. I've seen it, yeah. | 1 0 Q. Okay. j 11 A. I've seen it in the printed form. j I 12 Q. Was this updated? j 13 A. I don't know. I have no idea. 14 Q. This- is page ninety-nine of themanual. j 15 And I believe at the second full paragraph there is a 16 reference to capacitor impregnation. Do you see 17 that? |- 18 A. Uh-huh. i | 1 9 Q. Did Monsanto ever conduct any tests to i 20 see what type of fumes would be released at that 21 capacitor impregnation temperature? | 22 A. No, not that I know of. 23 Q . Okay . 24 A . If they did, I didn't have anything to 25 do with it. KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043440 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Do you know what the basis was for Mr. Benignus saying aboutrespirators being used j during that interval? ! ................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... 1. [ A. No, except that Mr. Benignus knew the product and the health possibilities sufficient to be | I j I able to make those judgments, I think, inthiscase, ' yes. Q. Did you concur in that judgment? A. Yes. Q. And would you have felt the same way in 1976? A. Yes. Mr. Benignus and I visited some ! people. We turned down two customers for use. Q. Which customers did you visit and turn down? A. we turned down one of the -- one of the manufacturers of preformed insulation and a tile manufacturer. Q. These were not capacitor manufacturers? A. No. Q. This was back in the days when they were not selling the enclosed systems? A. This was back in the '60s. Anyway, we were flying in DC-3s. Q. Did you ever visit the P. R. Mallory KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043441 1 plant in Waynesboro, Tennessee? 2 A. No. 3 Q. And you visited the - 4 A. I never did anything. Elmer did that, 5 Q. Do you know what the budgetary criteria 6 system was at the Krummrich plant, the PCB operation 7 at the Krummrich plant? 8 A. No, I have no idea. It would have 9 been -- any budgetary system over there would have 10 been budgeted in the personnel department and it 11 would have been covered by the personnel's overall 12 budget since their safety and eventually industrial 13 hygiene services were budgeted and managed under 14 personnel. 15 Q. Okay. Would that include the cost of 16 the protective clothing used? 17 A._ No. - . 18 Q. What was that budgeted under? 19 A. That would be budgeted under the 20 individual divisions. 21 Q. That issued the clothing? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Dr. Osland, what would he be budgeted 24 under? 25 A. He would be budgeted under personnel. KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043442 1 The cost of personnel was a part of cost of goods. 2 Q. How frequently do they do sampling - 3 sample the air for PCBs at that plant? 4 A. At what period of time? 5 Q. Let's say '69 to '77. 6 A. Probably not very frequently since it 7 was a very cumbersome job. 8 Q. Air sampling? 9 A . Uh-h uh. 10 Q. What did they use to sample? 11 A. Used a very complicated system of 12 breaking down the Aroclor to hydrogen chloride, 13 absorb the hydrogen chloride in a fixed base, and 14 then backtracking the base. 15 Q. Okay. Now, Mr. Papageorge testified 16 that after 1970 they went to a system where they used 17 these vessels containing hexane to sample the* air for 18 PCBs. Were you familiar with that? 19 A. No. That's the one where you run it up 20 the outside tool container, I presume? 21 Q. I'm sorry, I didn't hear what you said. 22 A. That's the kind that you run the -- a 23 gas, and by adiabatic cooling collect samples, is 24 that what you're talking about? 25 Q. Adiabatic? KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043443 1 A. By cooling. 2 Q. Okay. I don't know if that's what I'm 3 talking about or not. 4 A. I don't know what he's talking about 5 either. 6 Q. Okay. He described something with a 7 pump sucking the air through vessels which contained 8 a solvent, and the solvent would capture the 9 contaminant. 10 A. Well, but that's common system. They 11 used what's known as a -- we had a hand pump, and you 12 pumped material through Greenberg Smith impingers or 13 midget impingers, although we preferred the Greenberg 14 Smith impingers. Great big tubes. 15 To ship that equipment would cost you 16 about a hundred and twenty-five percent of a -- of 17 your own personal, air ticket, by the way. The whole 18 thing weighed, oh, two or three hundred pounds, all 19 of the equipment with all the Greenberg Smith tubes, 20 the tripod. The pump weighed thirty-eight pounds 21 that we used. And you had -- you brought two cases 22 of tubes, one of bubblers and one -23 Q. Mr. Garrett, are we talking about what 24 was done in the '70s here? 25 A. We're talking about what was done up to KARPOWJCZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043444 1 the time of the individual samplers. And the early 2 individual samplers weren't worth a dime. 3 Q. When were the early samplers used? 4 A. Introduced in the '70s. And the early 5 ones failed more frequently than they worked, and we 6 never could get really correct air volume 7 measurements with them. 8 Q. Never? 9 A. We never could. 10 Q. Okay. How long were youtrying? 11 A. Well, the first good ones were probably 12 made by DuPont, in our opinion. Sippen made a good 13 one for short-term sampling. Anyone that preceded 1 4 that, as far as we're concerned, would not maintain 15 the airflows. 16 Q. 1 7 down? What do you mean, the pump would run 18 A. Well, you're talking about a little tiny 19 plastic pump with a battery, and you're trying to get 20 an eight hour sample. 21 First, most of them wouldn't take an 22 eight hour sample until the midget ones introduced 23 originally by Sippen and followed by DuPont. The big 24 maker of pumps today is DuPont. 25 Q. When was this midget one introduced by KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043445 1 DuPont and Sippen? 2 A. In the early '70s. They weren't 3 perfected until -- they became very reliable pumps 4 probably in the early '80s. And by the mid '80s, 5 they were accepted as accurate and they were very 6 accurate and they -- by this time had extensive 7 electronic stuff in it so you could set them or 8 anything, set them for time-lapse, anything. They do 9 anything including milk for you, if you had it set up 10 right. 11 Q. Now, by problem with the pump, do you 12 mean that because the pump was not reliable, you 13 could never be sure of what volume of air had gone 14 through the sample? 1 5 A. In the early days. 16 Q. And, therefore, the concentration figure 1 7 would be meaningless? 18 A. That's right, that's why we carried all 19 this heavy gear. We used rotameters for -- good, 20 heavy, balanced rotameters for our air volume 21 measurements. And we read the rotameters on periodic 22 intervals. And the test result looked like a piece 23 of paper with the readings for almost every twenty, 24 thirty minutes to get a decent sample. 25 Q. Did you ever use organic vapor tubes or KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043446 1 carbon tubes for sampling of PCBs? 2 A. Oh, my, yes. Later on, when you got 3 the -- when you could produce and integrate a 4 chromatogram for the PCBs in general, we would use 5 the carbon tubes, and where you -- where we could 6 quantitate them accurately, you could get the -- the 7 chromatogram for PCBs using electron capture 8 technique, you can get a chromatogram. 9 But when you could quantitate them 10 accurately, that means tell how much was there 11 accurately, we used the carbon tubes and we used all 12 types of absorptive materials, including carbon, in 13 tubes. 1 4 Q. When were you doing that? 15 A. From the early '70s through until the 16 time I quit. 17 Q, Okay. Was.it -- . 18 A. All -- every incident of improvement, 19 considering the analytical methods and considering 20 the pumps available. 21 Q. Was there a preference for the vessels 22 with the solvents over the carbon tubes? 23 A. No, no, no, they didn't -- we -- you're 24 not going to carry all that junk around if you could 25 do it with a thing as big as a cigarette package and KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043447 1 a pack about as big as an ordinary cough drop package 2 in your pocket. You're not going to carry that three 3 hundred pounds of trash around. 4 I drove ray cars to death carrying that 5 around. The airlines wouldn't take some of that. 6 And besides that, the first time I ever detected for 7 PCBs in the air with a so-called chlorinated 8 hydrocarbon detector made by a gentleman in Dayton, ! ; 9 Ohio in his own shop, I guess, and it was so , 10 delicate, because it had so much glassware connected ! 11 with it, that if we put it on an airplane in those i 12 days, you'd never -- you'd have to go to a glass 13 blower immediately and have it put back together j 14 aga in/ 15 So we frequently -- I drove all over i i I 16 this damn country in ray personal car to do sampling. j 17 And one of the samplers, this thing was about this I 18 big, about this long. ( 19 Q. What are we talking about here, carbon? ; 20 A. Talking about a sampler for Aroclors. I i i 21 Q. Okay. What kind? i | 22 A. It was elec -- it was a chlorinated ; 23 hydrocarbon detector. I don't know who made it. But 24 a lot of the instruments were made those days in what 25 you'd call garage shops. KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043448 1 Keep in mind, when I went in -- when I 2 was a member or the chairman of the committee for the 3 national AIHA membership committee, we had a great 4 party and we had five hundred members. There are 5 seven thousand of them now. 6 So a person that wanted to make 7 instruments for this business in those days had 8 little incentive. Today, they have much incentive. 9 Because those - 10 MR. MOORE: You've answered his 11 question. 12 Q. (BY MR. CUKER) Were carbon tubes ever 13 used in series? 14 A. In series? 15 Q. Yeah. 16 A. Depending on what you want to measure. 17 Q , PCBs. 18 A. I don't know why you'd use them in 19 series. If you used the proper air settings and the 20 proper tube, you're going to absorb enough on there 21 to get you a sample that you can quantitate. 22 Q. Do you remember a recommended flow rate 23 for sampling with carbon tubes? 24 A. No, I do not. 25 Q. Did Monsanto keep that information? KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPAlNY WATER PCB-SD0000043449 1 A. I'm sure we did. 2 Q. Could you recall whether it was less 3 than one liter per minute or one liter per minute? 4 A. It would depend, again, on the size - 5 on the type of pump you have. And if the pump -- and 6 airflow characteristics would depict the kind of tube 7 you used. 8 You could get tubes that would take low 9 airflows and high airflows depending on the amount of 10 carbon or the amount of absorption in the tube. And 11 you can get pumps now that are quite accurate and 12 work a good twenty-four hour -13 Q. Back in the '70s, I mean. 1 4 MR. MOORE: What part of the '7 0s? 15 MR. CUKER: Let's say '73 t 0 ' 76 . 16 MR. BUSTER: What are you asking? 1 7 THE - WTTNBS..S : We'd be carrying a big-.. . 1 8 load, probably. We'd be carrying the sample with - 19 either the hand pump sampler or the heavy electrical 20 pump with the Greenberg Smith impingers in those 21 days . 22 Q. (BY MR. CUKER) Okay. 23 A. Until we had accurate flow level or 24 accurate devices. The first of these little hang-on 25 pumps came out back in about '69, '70. The first KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043450 JX 1 ones were not accurate. I mean you have enough 2 problem with this kind of analyses to have an 3 inaccurate pump. And there is no way of measuring 4 consistently the volume that flowed through. 5 Q. Okay. When -6 A. There is today. i j | 7 Q. Getting back to let's say the period '73 8 to '77, how would that pump have to be monitored -- j 9 A. W ell, you -- ! 1 0 Q. -- when it was used? j 11 A. In those days, youhad very short period j i i 12 pumps. So if you wanted to run an eight hour, we did ! iI 13 it with a double pumpor a triple pump. j 1 4 Q. Okay. Monsanto did not run eight hours 15 with a single pump? j 16 A. Not until we had single pumps that we 17 felt were accurate enough to do it. ' j i j 18 Q. And when was that? 'j 19 A. 20 date. Q. 21 Oh, hell, I can't remember the exact Well, approximately. j j I ^ 22 A. 23 Q. 24 PCBs now. Sometime during the '70s. Now, I'm just speaking with regard to . I i j ! 25 A. Yes, I'm talking about -- the PCBs are KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043451 1 not unusual sampling material. We sampled 2 everything. | 3 Q. Would it have been the late '70s? I --.....-.--...--..--..-...------------ ----------------------------------------------------------.--................."i 4 MR. MOORE: He said he didn't remember. 5 MR. CUKER: Okay. 6 THE WITNESS: I really don't remember. 7 You'd have to look up the evolution of the pumps. i 8 You can find it in history. Somebody wrote a history 9 of this business, and I'm sure that it would show 10 where the -- when the accuracy was available. It ! 11 does you very little good to sample if you don't get 12 accurate results. Industrial hygienist's primary job 13 was to go look at the operations. 14 Q. (BY MR. CUKER) What operations? 15 A. Any operation that you happened to be 16 responsible for. 17 Q.- You mean the work operation? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Okay. 20 A. That's true. i! i 21 Q. Mr. Garrett, have you reviewed any 22 documents in the last week or so relating to a 23 meeting between Monsanto people and Mallory people i n 24 1 97 6? 25 A. Yes. KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043452 1 Q. Do you have any recollection of that 2 meeting? 3 A. No. --4 .Qv.................... Did reviewing..those documents refresh 5 your recollection in any way of that meeting? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Do yourecall talking to anybody about 8 that meeting up until last week or so? 9 A. No. 10 MR. CUKER: I have no further 11 questions. 12 MR . BUSTER: We don'1 t have anything. 13 MR. SPODEN: No questions for Emhart. 14 MR. MOORE: Thanks, Jack . 15 16 17 18 this 19 20 21 22 Subscrj,pe"cf bef or c me on rday of c My commission /1 1 989 . JOSEPHINE S.M8L0CK Mafary Pu&B - Stat at Mtewurl expires --------------- Si I suit County My Commission Expirm Janusry 16,1991 I /( NOTARY PUBLIC ~ 23 24 25 KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043453 1 NOTARIAL CERTIFICATE 2 STATE OF MISSOURI ) ) 3 COUNTY OF ST. LOUIS ) 4 -- ------------ 1, G-w-e-n--A-^---a---R-e-g-i-s-fe-e-r^e-d--Professional Reporter and Notary Public duly commissioned and 5 qualified in and for the County of St. Louis, State of Missouri, do hereby certify that, pursuant to 6 agreement between Counsel, came before me on the 21st day of December, 1988, at the Karpowicz Reporting 7 Company Conference Room, 314 North Broadway, 11th Floor, St. Louis, Missouri, JACK T. GARRETT, who was 8 by me first duly sworn on his oath to testify to the truth and nothing but the truth of his knowledge 9 touching and concerning the matters in controversy in this cause; that he was thereupon carefully examined 10 upon his oath, and his examination reduced to writing under my supervision; that the deposition is a true 11 record of the testimony given by the witness. 12 IN WITNESS WHEREOF , I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my seal thi s/^L2^day of 13 1989. 1 4 My commission will expire January 27th, 1991. 15 16 :U&<rtary Public 17 18 19 20 21 I 22 ii 23 KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043454 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY 408 Olive Street, Suite 316 St. Louis, MO 63102 January 11, 1989 Mr. Jack Garrett 429 Geyer Forest St. Louis, MO 63122 In Re: Katherine Joyce Brewer, et al. vs Monsanto Corporation, et al. Dear Mr. Garrett: This letter, incorporated as the last page of your deposition taken on December 21, 1988, will serve as notice to you that your testimony is now ready for your reading and signing of same. I would appreciate your contacting my office by calling 314/621-8883 so that arrangements can be made to accomplish this. This letter is being mailed to you, as you know, by Certified Mail with return receipt requested. If we have not heard from you within thirty days after receiving your return receipt, this testimony will be filed with our indication of this offer of submission to you and your refusal to sign. I would appreciate - heajinq- .from you, at your earliestconvenience and appreciate your cooperation in this regard. Sincerely yours, Gwen A. Huffman, RPR CERTIFIED MAIL: P 714 737 467 MAILED ON: January 11, 1989 KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043455 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT MIDDLE DISTRICT OF TENNESSEE COLUMBIA DIVISION KATHERINE JOYCE BREWER, ) .e_t___al_,_,_._........ _______......... ___.. ___..... ....... .............. )___________________________________ Plaintiffs, ) ) Nos. 1-88-008 and -vs- ) 1-88-0014through ) 1-88-0368 MONSANTO CORPORATION, et al . , ) Judge Wiseman ) ) Defendants. ) ) AFFIDAVIT I, GWEN A. HUFFMAN, a Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public within and for the State of Missouri, do hereby certify that under Certified Mail No. P 714 737 467 JACK GARRETT was duly notified that his deposition taken in the above matter had been transcribed and could be read and signed; that signed receipt was .returned- showing signature date of That over thirty days have elapsed since the sending of the aforementioned Certified Letter; that there has been no response from this party or counsel; that therefore, said deposition is herewith filed. My Commissions..expires January 27 , 1991. Notary PufoYicA KARPOWICZ REPORTING COMPANY WATER PCB-SD0000043456 CORRECTIONS 'O DEPOSITION The Witness, states he wishes to make trter following changes in testimony as originally giveij>-x/ PAGE JL LINE SHOULD READ REASON 9-^f Mk.Ray&v^Lvc^s 6^ P/mon* '.>/> Y'- -i / " fiF-t.cz ',," aaj '1 1 " Hfn hej)Uh is vrf Wcv ~T~ 2<^V) fi.~-k- .'14-0 b*> f .-/ AO y A nFF > .'.' 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Sb& hth REASON P<ro^ Ccf<?c^s2-A&s^ 22 AFia."2l Fi>'eP-<4,c) AHlfhivf f-yc. rtj/?cet < A 4<d y}U, CovM&yyfa.o fA.h+rt o/TjjJ^V ._ _____________ 2a iVlfbiCM'-, 'S.hauuej b<^ Fb/>- rI ^^Cr.'Li.Ae-U^i^ /) _2 7K --" AC, k -f FAczpd i aiv; -5* h a > 0*4 ,, . J ^ b b a ok -- T'fr?^ t> Kscj 4*ry? ki?/^R^^1'/^srr 24 2<g__ ll__2 /fM Ffa^ (a2q ed^s- `VucnuO A.-s pA^- kVo/op/ C A<ha ///'^idqe A iMpi uq*i'2. p^f''l MO CoAfit^rM^Si Aria.Pb.e^. F .chulF Loa<; a, H-A/jb pomp'"' /\o sr/zDi*--' _____________ "QJ<> k/d___________ _____________ y^Sraitii '' -i 2) A 22 \ PAS-b-_nLAOM'S aLqm^ (6'iOowg "ycu', F'at-Ljm.-vt,. /b'2- ci*/v-'pJ4*U.is'&s' -ak_- >i mo ac+v ' ' S?'0 L'` L-C__2-2__ TUg. S'-a-^ ! tAJ i U_ lo-z. Cc./W pu -K- cmo "D+a^ -^.&ddl-k42& -S--._ ^A)J2i.AAjfg-7 - . b____ f" TTpm^-/ A TUp y" .A u ? 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