Document Z8jyz0L4yDRew972m1zXewoqL

EICHMOND C. COBUBN THOMAS I..C E 0F T (iet3-1980) JOOHERNAKL.DMJo.FAZEALPFNTD JOHN R. MUSGRAVE KENNETH R. HEINEKAN* PATRICK C. DOWD J. WILLIAM NEWBOLD THOMAS E. DOUGLASS JAMES L. FOGLE* BEHNJAOEHDNWR. .GBEOHYDCEELMAN * LOUIS F. BONACOESI* RICHARD A. MOELLES* RICHARD S. COHNFELD * GUY A. SCHMITZ EDWINO FJ.CPO UU NTSZE EL LL, JE. ILLINOIS AND MISSOURI Coburn-, Croft & Pu t z e l l A t t o r n e y s a t Law- One Me r c a n tile Ce n t e r - S u it e 2900 St. Lo u is . Mis s o u r i 63101-1686 (314) 621-8575 ILLINOIS OFFICE 312 SOUTH ILLINOIS STREET BELLEVILLE, ILLINOIS 62220 (01B) 277-1020 December 22, 1983 RUTH ZIMMERMAN BEEO* FAUL M. BROWN* ELLEN E. BONACORSI' BRUCE D. RYDER* CHRISTOPHER F. JONES* DANIEL T. ENGLE1 KURTIS B. HEEO1 La r r y a . r e e d * WALTER O. THEISS* RONALD L. HACK* DAVID S. DxLUGAS1 BRADLEY A. WINTERS* MICHAEL H, GUBERMAN* SUZANNE M. HORN* M. JANE RUDOLPH ROBERT J. GHYZMALA* PETER M. HAMILTON* EMDAWRIKN AG.. BHAAYRLVEESY** JAMES W. HOWARD* DIANA J. HARTER KEDTERAINNALG. F. RBAANKKEWLIENLL M r . Rex Carr Cohn, Carr, Korein, Kunin, Schlichter & Brennan 412 Missouri Avenue E. St. Louis, Illinois 62201 Re: Kemner, et al. vs. Monsanto Company, et al. Dear Rex: Enclosed please find, per your request to Mr. Heineman, copies of the depositions of Monsanto executives which were taken in the Adkins v s . Monsanto litigation. Very truly yours, BDR/sm enclosure Bruce D. Ryder / .1 IH THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT 0? WEST VIROINIA CHARLESTON, WEST VIRGINIA JAMES M. ADKINS, Adnlnlstrator of the Estate of Ralph E. Adkins, Deceased, et al, Plaintiffs, 8 . MONSANTO COMPANY, a Delaware Corporation, Dafondant ) ) ) ) ) ) ) No. 81-2098 ) ) ) ) > / Deposition of VINCENT T. MATTEUCCI taken on behalf of the plaintiffs* Reporter: M Jot Springer Ja m e s M ay R eporting S ervice CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS R.R. 2 - BOX 65 ED W AR D SV ILLE. IL L IN O IS 62025 t 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OP WEST VIRGINIA 2 CHARLESTON,`WEST VIRGINIA 3 4 JAMES M. ADKINS, Administrator ) of the Estate of Ralph E, Adkins, ) 5 Deceased, et al, ) ) Plaintiffs, ) 7 vs. ) ) No. 81-2098 8 MONSANTO COMPANY, a Delaware ) ) Corporation, 9 ) ) Defendant. ) 10 n 12 APPEARANCES: 13 Messrs, Calwell, McCormick & Peyton, by W. Stuart Calwell, Jr., Esq., For the Plaintiffs; u Messrs. Bowles, McDavid, Graff & Love, 15 by P. Michael Pleska, Esq., For the Defendant. 16 17 18 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED by and between 19 counsel for the plaintiffs and counsel for the defendant 20 that the deposition of VINCENT T. MATTEUCCI may be taken 21 pursuant to Rule 26(a) of the Federal Rules of Civil Pro 22 cedure, on behalf of the plaintiffs, on July 1 5 , 19 8 3 , at 23 the Radisson Hotel, Room 215, 9th Street and Convention 24 Plaza, St. Louis, Missouri, before M, JOY SPRINGER, a 25 Notary Public within and for the County of Madison, State JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE  f 1 of Illinois; that the issuance of notice and dedimus is 2 waived, and that this deposition may be taken with the same 3 force and effect as if all Federal rules and statutory 4 requirements had been complied with. 5 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that 6 any and all objections to all or any part of this deposition 7 except objections as to form of the questions asked or 8 answers given, are hereby reserved and may be raised on 9 the trial of this cause; and that the signature of the 10 deponent is not waived. 11 12 ; 13 14 15 VINCENT T. MATTEUCCI. 16 produced, sworn and examined on behalf of the plaintiffs, 17 deposes and says as follows; 18 19 20 BY MR. CALWELL: EXAMINATION - 21 (Whereupon the reporter marked Plaintiff's 22 Deposition Exhibit #342 (Monsanto's I.D. 23 #832*1389 and 8324390), consisting of two pages; 24 Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit #343 (Monsanto's 25 I.D. #8324391), consisting of one page.) r JA M E S M AY R E P O R T IN G S E R V IC E 2 1 2 please? Would you state your name for the record, 3 A. My name Is Vincent Thomas Matteucci. 4 Q, And where do you live? 5 A. I live at 13638 Armstead, A-r-n-s-t-e-a-d, L 6 St. Louis, Missouri 63131- 7 Q And you're employed by Monsanto? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q What do you do for Monsanto? 10 A. I'm Director of Manufacturing' in the 11 Industrial Chemicals operating unit. 12 Q Is that MIC? 13 A. MIC. 14 Q What is your education? 15 A. I graduated as a chemical engineer in i960 16 from Northeastern University. 17 Q What kind of degree is that? B.S.? 18 A. Bachelor's. 19 Q Okay. Any other education? 20 A. I've attended graduate business school. I 21 don't have a graduate degree. 22 Q So you did some post-graduatecourse work, 23 that kind of thing? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q Okay. When did you first go to work for JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 1 the company, Monsanto? 2 A. Joined Monsanto ir. 1957. 3 Q You are in some kind of a co-op program? 4 A. Yes, I was. 5 Cl Where did you first work for Monsanto? 6 A. In Everett, Massachusetts. 7 Q You b o m up there? 8 . Yes, I was. 9 "d And what kind of a facility did they have 10 at Everett, Massachusetts? 11 A. At that point in time I would describe it 12 as a fairly large multi-product chemical plant. 13 Q Make any herbicides up there? 14 A. Not to my knowledge. 15 & You work with any chlorinated phenols In 16 that operation? 17 A. No, I did not. 18 Q You got your degree, then, in I960 and con 19 tinued on with Monsanto, and what wa3 your next position 20 with Monsanto, where was it? 21 A. Well, I stayed at Everett through 1963 in 22 various technical and manufacturing positions, and at that 23 point In time I transferred to St. Louis Headquarters in an 24 engineering department that was not the Central Engineering 25 Department but was a division engineering department, JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE t. 1 precursor to a central engineering group. 2 4 Now, when you say a central engineering 3 group, is that .a central engineering group in something 4 like MIC? 5 A. Obviously we reorganized several times since 6 then. It was specifically the Engineering Department for 7 the Inorganic Chemicals Division at that time. 8 Q In these depositions we have been talking 9 about organizational units. I realize there's been a lot 10 of reorganizations. 11 A. I'll try to k e e D that clarified. It was 12 Inorganic Engineering Department. 13 Cl So it was the central engineering of an 14 operating unit of some kind? 15 A. That's right. As opposed to the engineering 16 department located at a plant. 17 ^ All right. Did you work with any chlorinatec 18 phenols In that position? 19 A. No, I did not. 20 Q How long did you stay in that position? 21 A. Oh, approximately three and a half years. 22 Just to clarify the organizational changes, during that 23 period we created what's now called the Central Engineering 24 Department, and in the last year or two of that period the 25 Inorganic Engineering Department in effect was assimilated | JAM ES MAY REPO RTING SERVICE R 1 into a Corporate Engineering Department. 2 Q Now, you said Corporate Engineering Depart 3 ment. Is that company-wide? 4 A. World-wide * company-wide. 5 Gt And that happened how long ago? A. *66, approximately. That's a matter of 7 record. 8 Q, I'm Just trying to get some idea. So then 9 beginning in about the middle '60'3 you were in a central 10 engineering department that had company-wide responsibility? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q Now, what does a corporate engineering 13 department do? I mean, is it an advisory kind of thing, 14 or what is it? 15 A. Basically Involved in the capital programs 16 for the corporation, the design and the construction of new 17 plants, significant plant improvements, expansions, things 18 of that sort. 19 Q, Would you be designing new facilities at 20 existing plants? 21 A. All of the above. New facilities, existing 22 plants, new plants, 23 Q Did you design or do any work for the Nitro, 24 West Virginia, manufacturing facility? 25 A. I did not specifically. Obviously, the JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 1 Central Engineering Department did. 2 Q Did anybody working under you or associated 3 with you in that department do that? 4 A. No. 5 Q Do you know anyone in the Central Engineering 6 Department who did? 7 A. Not specifically. 8 Q But you do know that some work was done? 9 A. I'm assuming that some work was done. 10 Q If you wanted to find out what work was 11 done, if at all, who would you go ask? 12 A. Your question is specific to the mid-'SO*s? 13 Yeah, right. 14 A. I guess I'd have to ask the people who were 15 responsible for the Nitro Plant at that time. 16 ^ How would you find them, how would you know 17 who they are? 18 A. It's a matter of record who the plant 19 managers, who the technical superintendents were at that 20 time. 21 Q So, I mean, If you wanted to find out what 22 the Corporate Engineering Department did, youTd ask the 23 NItro Plant manager? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q And he'd know what Corporate Engineering did JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE ** 1 for them? 2 A.' He'd know what was taking place at that 3 point in time. He would know what kind of activity and 4 projects were being installed. It would be a matter of 5 record who the specific people were involved. It could be 6 dozens of people. 7 Q That would be the place to start, the plant 8 manager in charge at that particular time? 9 A. It would be a natter of record. There would 10 be engineering drawings and documents people had probably n signed. 12 Q Now, ha3 there always been, to your knowledge, v' '% 13 some type of a Corporate Engineering Department or function? 14 A. To my knowledge, there has always been a 15 Central Engineering Department in Monsanto. It has been 16 called different things at different points of time and it's 17 had different levels of responsibility. From my earliest 18 days I could tell you that that would have included many of 19 our corporate architects and our corporate specialists in 20 terms of specific areas of technology. 21 Q Now, I am trying to get a relationship 22 between the Corporate Engineering Department and, perhaps, 23 other engineering operations. Is it the ultimate responsi 24 bility of the Central Engineering Department to design these 25 new plants, new facilities, and retooling and that kind of JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE R 1 thing that you were talking about? 2 A. Only significant. 3 <4 The significant program? 4 A. That*s right. And the definition of signi 5 ficant probably has changed through the years. It might 6 have been a dual limit, and even at that point was a guide 7 line, not a policy. Where you might say, to use an example 8 if a project looks like it's under a million dollars, 9 clearly many of our plants would have the capability of 10 designing and executing that kind of expansion or modifica 11 tion. But it might be substantially greater than that and 12 a specific plant at that point in time might have the 13 resources to do, say, a two-million-dollar oroject, so 14 there's no hard-and-fast policy, Guideline based on work 15 loads, both corporate-wide and plant level, and the capa 16 bility of the plant. 17 Q Does the Central Engineering Department, 18 or whatever department carried out that function over the 19 years, does it have a, like, a supervisory function, let's 20 say, over a plant engineering department that might be 21 designing, say, a major project? Would it be subject to 22 the supervision or approval or review of the Central 23 Corporate Engineering? 24 A. Not formally. Our plant Technical Services 25 Departments traditionally have not reported back to our JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 1 Corporate Engineering Department, but, obviously, there is 2 a technology network within Monsanto. Our plant technical 3 people would have technical relationships especially with 4 specialists in our corporate group. 5 Q, So you have pretty good communication net 6 works to tap expertise throughout the -- 7 A. I would hope so. 8 Q Has that generally been true over the years 9 for ?*onsanto? 10 A. I think it's more of an individual situa 11 tion. It's not corporate policy. 12 Q 3ut it is a practice? 13 A. It's a practice. There are people within 14 the company who have spent much of their careers in very 15 narrow technical areas and you know who they are -- 16 Q You can tell. All right. We left off 17 where you're In the Central Engineering Department in '66, 18 right? 19 A. 20 Q In *66. And you're working as an engineer in there, 21 obviously? 22 A. 23 0. 24 A. 25 Q, As a Project Manager but as an engineer. And how long did you stay In that position? Until* about late '66. What happened to you then? JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 10 1 A. At that point in time I transferred to our 2 Krummrich Plant, which is in Sauget, Illinois. 3 Q What were you doing for the Krummrich Plant? 4 A I was at Krummrich from approximately late 5 '66 to June of 1970, so I'll try to capture that entire period for you. During that period I basically had two 7 positions, an Engineering Supervisor and then the Technical 8 Superintendent for what was at that time the Inorganic 9 Division products that were produced at the Krummrich Plant* 10 Q What were those products? 11 A Those products, to the best of my recollec 12 tion, were -- and I'll list them. It's a fairly long list. 13 Q .Just an idea of what it Is. 14 A Phosphoric acid, phosphorus trichloride, 15 phosphorus oxychloride, phosphorus pentachloride. l Q Was Santophen one of them? 17 A Santophen was not one of them. You want me 18 to continue the list? 19 Q No, that's all right. Now, when you were 20 at the Krummrich Plant, did you work with chlorinated phenols? 21 A No. 22 Q Did you supervise anyone who did? 23 A No,I did not. 24 Q Did no work at all with pentachlorophenol? 25 A None at all. JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE Q Orthochlorophenol? A. None at all. Q Trichlorophenol? A. No. Q Did you know there was an operation at that time that dealt with the chlorophenols? A. Yes, I did. Q Was that Department 237, something like that? A. There were a number of departments. I think that was one of them. Q So looks like about four years or so you were at the Krummrich Plant. Your duties never brought you into contact with the operations concerning the chlorophenols there, is that right? A. That's correct. Q Okay. What happened in 1970,then? A. 1970 I became thePlant Manager of our plant in Martinez, California, Q What's that plant do? A. At the time that plant had two major func tions. It produced a family of vanadium and platinum catalysts and produced elemental sulfur and sulfuric acid that were recovered from the refinery waste stream that was located adjacent to the plant. Q During that time did you have occasion to JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 1 work with carbon disulfide? 2 A. No, I did not. 3 a H2S? 4 A. Yes, I did. 5 Q What did your work with H2S involve? 6 A. H2S .was one of the refinery waste streams 7 I mentioned to you. We in effect transferred streams con 8 taining hydrogen sulfide gas from the refinery and produced 9 both elemental sulfur, which we marketed, and sulfuric acid VO from those waste streams. 11 Q You were-the Plant Manager, and as I under 12 stand, part of the mission of the Plant Manager is to be 13 responsible for the health and safety of the workforce? 14 A. That clearly is one of his major responsi 15 bilities. 16 Q Particularlyif you're working with a sub 17 stance such as H2S? 18 A. That's correct. 19 Q That is a highly toxic and dangerous sub 20 stance, isn't it? 21 A. It certainly is. 22 (1 Did you receive any training about the 23 handling of dangerous or toxic substances during the course 24 of your work at Monsanto? 25 A. Yes, I have. JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 1 Q What did that consist of? 2 A. I can't specifically tell you about all the 3 training I have had in that project. 4 Q Kind of -- 5 A. Hydrogen sulfide is probably one of the 6 number one killers in the chemical industry. There are 7 more mortalities from hydrogen sulfide gas than any other 8 chemical. At least, that's the statistics I recall when I 9 was in that Job. So clearly there were a great deal of 10 publications, films for safety trai n i n g available to myself 11 and they were supplied both internally from our Corporate 12 Safety and Property Protection group as well as other - y 13 industry g r o u p s . I can recall seeing several films that 14 were training films giving a great deal of information con- 15 earning that product. 16 Now, aside from b e i n g informed that it would 17 kill you, Were you provided any information about its long- 18 term health effects, if any, that we r e obviously less than 19 fatal? 20 A I don't specifically recall that, although, 21 we certainly at that point in time were monito r i n g closely 22 for hydrogen sulfide gas at this location. 23 Q How did you do that? 24 A Initially I can recall that m o n i t o r i n g being 25 the typical one-shot test with a Draga tube and a capsule ': JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 1 of some sort, and then as technology developed and began 2 to mature, we went to continuous monitors for H2S. 3 4 Continuous monitoring? 4 A. Uh huh (yes). 5 Q Now, In connection with that, did you have 6 any specific health monitoring of the people who were 7 working in that area to check their physical condition 8 periodically? 9 A. Yes i 10 4 And was a part of that physical examination 11 specifically designed to look for-the effects of H2S expo 12 sure? 13 A. I don't believe that we specificallylooked 14 for that. 15 4 Okay. What kind of a health monitoring 16 program did you have in place out there? 17 A. Basically we had a program where all 18 employees received annual physicals under the direction of 19 a local physician that we contracted with. 20 4 Did this local physician have any particular 21 training in industrial hygiene or industrial medicine? 22 A. Not to my knowledge. 23 4 Was there a requirement or company policy 24 that looked at the qualifications of doctors who were con 25 tracted with or hired as plant physicians? JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 1 A Absolutely. That was a decision that was 2 typically Jointly made between plant management and our 3 Corporate Medical Department. 4 Q What were the kinds of things you looked at 5 in terms of qualification for the physician? 6 A Clearly you look for medical competency, 7 somebody who would service the plant. That was always a 8 concern. 9 Q How would you know if a doctor was competent 10 to engage in this rather specialized area of medicine? n A You're making an assumption in those days 12 we had an open choice of physicians who were trained and 13 knowledgeable in industrial medicine, and I don't believe 14 that's an accurate assumption. 15 Q Well, did you look for someone who was? 16 A You would try to, but, frankly, industrial 17 medicine, particularly in the early '7 0 's, was not what I 18 perceived as a field we could simply go out and take our 19 pick among several.. Specifically at. Martinez the physician 20 we had there was there when I arrived and was there when 1 21 left, and he was a very professional physician. He was also 22 a surgeon. He also became my personal physician. That's 23 how much confidence I had in him. I can only tell you that 24 all the people at Martinez felt he serviced them very pro 25 fessionally during that period. JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 1 Q Did you ever determine what his qualifica2 tlons were? 3 A, X never personally looked through his back4 ground. He was a surgeon, he was an F.A.C.S. He certainly 5 had the up-front credentials in terms of my experiences with 6 him that I would have to suggest that his qualifications 7 became apparent to me during the period that I had a rela8 tionship with him. 9 Q Okay. But you don't know whether he had any 10 particular expertise in examining or monit o r i n g people who 11 may have been exposed to one or more hazardous substances, 12 you don't know about his qualifications in that regard? 13 A. Ho, I -don't. As we were concerned about 14 our industrial hygiene exposure in the plant, he was aware 15 of those. We provided a certain amount of that feedback 16 to him tc help h im in his evaluation. 17 Q And was that a company policy or practice, 18 to provide the on-site p h y s i c i a n with as much information 1? as possible to assist hi m in his -- 20 A. It certainly was practice. I don't say it 21 was written policy, I c a n 't say I ever read that, but 22 clearly it was the practice. I'm sure that from time to 23 time we met with h i m and routinely gave h i m some of the 24 specifications of what we were t r y i n g to accomplish. 25 Q Now, your experience as Plant M a n a g e r when yc>u we JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 1 at Martinez, California, insofar as the doctor was concerned, 2 when you got.there he was there and you were perfectly satis- 3 fied with him the years you were at that plant. Now, was 4 that your first plant manager's Job? 5 A. Yes, it was. 6 Q, Was it your only plant manager's Job? 7 A. Yes, it was. 8 Q In preparation for that Job did you receive 9 any kind of training, like, a course from Monsanto, like, 10 introduction to being a plant manager or something like that? 11 A. No course specific to that at that time. 12 Since then we have developed one. 13 1 Since 1970, or thereabouts? 14 A. Well, certainly since 1970. I don't recall 15 specifically when ws developed the course. 16 Q And what I was getting at, did you receive 17 any specific instructions about plant medical people? In 18 other words,"you1re going to be a plant manager tomorrow, 19 Mr. Matteucci, and you have to look for these kinds of 20 things in these medical people/'did you get any instructions 21 like that? 22 A. No, I did not. 23 Q So how did you learn that it was Monsanto's 24 practice to look at the qualifications of the doctors that 25 you contracted with and used as plant physicians? How did i JA M E S M AY R E P O R T IN G S E R V IC E 1 you come to know that? 2 A.*. Annually our corporate medical people would 3 visit the plant, talk to us about our experiences, what we 4 were trying to accomplish, meet with the local physician. 5 I recall specifically those kinds of things. 6 Q Do you know if that was a company-wide 7 practice? 8 A. I can't say. I 'm assuming it was, but that'si 9 an assumption on my part. 10 Q I understand. The Corporate Medical Depart 11 ment people would at least visit your plant and chat with 12 the physician and see what's going on? 13 Yes. And there were others. Not Just 14 corporate medical at that tine. We did have and have had 15 for 3om e time industrial hygiene group that would come out 16 and -- 17 V Do the sane thing? 18 A, Safety and property protection as well. 19 Q And they would take a look at and monitor 20 that H2S situation? 21 A The H2S was probably more a safety concern 22 in the plant than hygiene. Our experience and the industry 23 experience at that time was clearly exposures or emissions 24 of H2S were highly hazardous, not so much from an industrial 25 hygiene standpoint but simply from a survival standpoint. JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE ] It's given that H2S will kill you, obviously. 2 Were-you given any information about repeated low-level 3 exposure over a period of tine? 4 A. Not that I recall. 5 Q, And was there a level of exposure to H2S 6 that was considered safe? 7 A. Yes, there was. I don't recall the specific 8 level, but we clearly had guidelines as t.o what the exposure 9 levels were for most of the chemicals that we had. 10 Q All right. And do you know if those exposure 11 levels took into account the effects of repeated exposure to 12 low levels over the years? 13 A I expect that would have been typical NIOSH 14 data. I can't comment what kind of testing was behind those 15 limits. 16 0, As Plant Manager you didn't receive any par 17 ticular instruction along those lines, is that right? 18 A Not any specific instructions but clearly 19 assimilated knowledge. 20 Q Did you tell your workforce anything about 21 suspected or real long-term effects of low-level exposures 22 to H2S over a period of time? 23 A N o . 24 Q As far as you know, there was no literature 25 from Monsanto about that either? JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE t 1 A. None that I specifically recall on low-level 2 exposure other than we certainly had the NIOSK information 3 available to us on not only H2S but all the other chemicals 4 we produced. That information was clearly discussed openly 5 in the plant with all our employees. 6 Q, And I presume you had a level that was a fata 1 7 level, you could be exposed to a level of it that would kill 8 you? 9 A. Ve certainly knew that. 10 1 And if you blotted that out on a continuum, 11 if you worked back to a point where there would be no expo12 sure, somewhere in between there was a safe level and ; 13 between a safe level and a fatal level yea had varying 14 decrees of exposure thao may or may not have been harmful, 15 is thac right? 16 A That would have been typical information for 17 many of the chemicals we produced, and that exposure level, 18 that thre3hhold level, wa3 at that point ir. time probably 19 the NIOSK book that we annually received an update from our 20 industrial hygiene group or as significant changes were 21 made to that we would receive those. 22 *1 So it would be your testimony, then, that 23 the NIOSK book was the standard for Monsanto on many of 24 these chemicals? 25 A. I wouldn't state that for all of Monsanto, ; JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE .. 1 but clearly that was the guideline we used. 2 Q All right. How long were you at the 3 California plant? 4 A. Approximately five years. I left there in 5 the fall -of 1975. Q, And where did you go? 7 A At that point In time I Joined the Detergent 8 and Phosphates Division of MIC In marketing and had marketing 9 responsibility for general and Industrial phosphates. 10 Q And where were you stationed? 11 A In St. Louis, 12 Q From California back to St. Louis, right? 13 A (Nods head affirmatively.) 14 Cl Now, in that Job you say it was like a 15 marketing Job? l A It was Marketing Manager's assignment for 17 that family of products. 18 Q You sell stuff, or what? 19 A No. This is a planning staff position 20 where you essentially -- 21 Q That's a corporate staff7 22 A No. It's division staff. You'll have to 23 understand that within Monsanto I think of sales as being 24 the salesman who calls on the customer getting the order, 25 and market planning being the people involved with setting JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 1 world-wide strategy, and that includes volume, price, market 2 segmentation and all the typical planning responsibilities 3 of marketing. 4 Q And did any of the products that you were 5 involved with there, were there any chlorinated phenols involved in those products at all? 7 A. No. This was a family of inorganic phos 8 phate products, many of which are used in food, PDA appli 9 cations . 10 Q How long were you in the marketing business? 11 A. I was in that position approximately a year 12 and a half. 13 Q Then where did you go? 14 A. At that point I became the Commercial 15 Director for our water treatment chemicals business. 16 Q Did those products involve any phenols, 17 chlorination of any benzene rings or anything like that? 18 A No, they did not. 19 Q So how long were you in that business? 20 A Approximately two yearB. 21 Q So that gets us up to about *79 or so? 22 A 1979, the spring of '79, April of *79. 23 Q What happened then? 24 A At that point in time I became the Director 25 of Manufacturing for the Detergent and Phosphates Division. JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 1 Q And did the Detergent and Phosphates 2 Division, would that be the same products that you were 3 involved in marketing with? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q Did it include any additional matters? A. Yes. 7 Q Would it have included any chlorinated 8 phenols? 9 A. 10 Q 11 perhaps? 12 A. Yes. And that would have been the Santophen, Yes. 13 Q And orthochlorophenol crude? 14 A. 15 that, yes. And the family of products associated with l In '79 what does a Director of Manufacturing 17 of the Phosphates Division do? 18 A. I had line responsibility for five plants. 19 Those plants were Augusta, Georgia; Kearny, New Jersey; 20 Trenton, Michigan; Carondelet, which is St. Louis, Missouri; 21 Long Beach, California. 22 Q And how long did you stay in that Job? 23 A. Approximately two years. 24 Q In '81. Does that get you to your present 25 position? JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 9h 1 A. Not really. 2 *Q What happened In f8l? , 3 A. In 1981 we reorganized the manufacturing 4 function In MIC, and In addition to the five plants that I 5 Just mentioned I picked up five additional plants. Q Okay. Who did you pick up? 7 A. Nitro, West Virginia; Everett, Massachusetts 3 8 Camden, New Jersey; Seattle, Washington. I left one out. 9 Q That's all right. 10 A. DellaRiver Plant, New Jersey. 11 Q Now, those plants were merely brought under 12 the same kind of position you had as Director of Manufac 13 turing for Detergents and Phosphates, right? 14 A. Yes. Fred Holzapfel retired approximately 15 at that point In time and I replaced him as Director of 16 Manufacturing for Nitro, Just give you that transition. 17 Q Okay. How long did that Job last? 18 A. Two years. m CO 19 Q That gets us to . That must be where 20 you are now? 21 A. Essentially In January of *83 I !m still 22 the Director of Manufacturing with another mix of plants 23 that does not Include Nitro. . 24 4 So for a brief period of time there Nitro 25 was under you, right? JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 2! 1 A. Yes. 2 Q And then it was taken out from under you. 3 Now, through this period of time that we are talking about 4 did you ever learn anything about a family of substances 5 called dioxins? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q When did you first become aware there was 8 such a substance or substances? 9 A. I can't give you specific date, but I would ^ 10 say mid-to-late '7 0 *8 , that range. 11 Q Do you know what the occasion was of your 12 finding out about that7 13 A. I don't recall. 14 Q What did you find out about it? 15 A. Through that period I would have to say that 16 dioxins as a contaminant, certain chemicals was receiving 17 a fair amount of public and in-house exposure, and somewhere 18 in that period of time I became aware of it; but I can't 19 recall specifically whether it was in a trade magazine or 20 an internal document or one of my peers talking about it, 21 I don't recall. 3ut it was in that '76 to '79 time period. 22 Okay. Did you do any professional reading 23 on the subject? 24 A. No, I've not. 25 Q When you got this responsibility for the -; JAM ES MAY REPO R TING SERVICE 1 Nitro Plant, were you made aware of any suspected problems 2 with the dioxin contamination In a product they used to 3 manufacture there, 2,*1,5 T? 4 A I was aware of that, yes. 5 Q How were you made aware of that? A. Through plant visits, discussions and my 7 involvement in the Nitro Task Force. 8 Q Okay. And how long were you on the Nitro ? Task Force? 1 A. Approximatelytwo years. n Q And the reason you were on it was because 12 you had responsibility for this plant during that period of 13 time? 14 A Yes. Fred Holsapfel was a member, and when 15 he retired I became a member. 16 G, Are you familiar, then, with the Suskind 17 studies? 18 A Yes, I am. 19 Q And I 've been told thatthere was a mortality 20 study that Suskind did on the Nitro group, is that correct? 21 A I 've not seen it specifically. I 've heard 22 that comment made. 23 C, And there was also a morbidity study under 24 taken. Were you aware of that? 25 A I was generally aware of that, yes. JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 1 Q Now, do you know why those studies were 2 undertaken at the time they were undertaken? 3 A. Obviously wasn't involved when the decisions 4 were made to conduct those studies. 5 Q But did you learn why those studies were 6 undertaken? 7 A. I don't think I've ever asked specifically 8 why, but clearly this is something because of the exposure 9 that people had had, my perception that Monsanto clearly 10 wanted to identify what, if any, health hazards, h ealth n impacts were the results of chemical exposures at the 12 Mitro P l a n t . 13 3 And as far as you know, that was the motiva- 14 tion for those undertakings? 15 A I think we have done other similar studies, 16 perhaps, with less scope, but thi3 was not unusual. 17 Q Do you know If you've done othe r - similar 18 studies on dioxins? 19 A. Not to my knowledge. 20 Q Do you know if there have been similar 21 studies done -- well, what did those other similar studies 22 involve? 23 A Involved concerns, and I'm talking specifi- 24 cally now back when I was at Martinez when there were 25 exposures there as asbestos became a concern. We were ; JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 1 handling a raw material that contained an amount of 2 crystalline type asbeBtos and we were concerned about that. 3 Our people came out and looked specifically and talked to 4 our local doctor, and we *instituted some additional test's 5 during the annual physicals and tightened down on our expo 6 sure levels as a result of that beyond the NIOSH guidelines. 7 Q Do you know if a study similar to the 8 Suskind studies were done that involved H2S? 9 A. Ho, I'm not. 10 So the people at the Martinez Plant, as far 11 as you know, were not studied as a result of their work 12 with H2S? 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q Do you know of any studies involving carbon 15 disulfide? 16 A. No , I don11 . 17 Q Niran? 18 A. Mo, I 'm not. 19 Q Aside from the asbestos work that you told 20 me about, do you know of any other studies on any other 21 substance that were similar to the undertaking that Suskind 22 was involved in at the Nitro Plant? 23 A No , I'm not. 24 Q, So as far as you know, asbestos is the only 25 one that Monsanto has undertaken? JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE A. Yes. It was not specifically asbestos but a component of a raw material we were using. And it doean*t surprise me that we didn't do a health study at Martinez in H2S. We had a very small population, approximately thirty .operators, and I understand the difficulty of statis tically studying that'small of a group. ^ Okay. Did you have any involvement in the Suskind study at Nitro? A. The only involvement I had was waiting for the study to be published. I can honestly say that to the best of my knowledge all of the work was done prior to my being responsible for the Nitro Plant and the study was not published when I left. Q Did you know If the"Suskind studies had anything to do with the litigation that the Nitro Plant Is involved in? A. -t My perception Is it did not. Q So as far as you know, there was no connec tion there, that was not part of the motivating -- A. It was my perception that it was not. 4 All right. I want to hand you what's been marked Exhibits 342 (Monsanto's I.D. #3324389 and 8324390) and Exhibit 342 (Monsanto's I.D. #8324391). Mr. Matteucci, you have had an opportunity to look at Exhibits 343 and 342, have you not? JAM ES m a v B irp n B Tiw r: c m w ir r 1 A. Yes, I have. 2 A And could you describe 3^2 for the record,. 3 please? Juat tell us the date and who It's to and that 4 sort of thing. 5 A. It is a memo to Clayton Calila and myself 6 from Lloyd Boesch dated February 10th, 1982. 7, 4 8 memo? And as far as you know, you received that * 9 A.. Yes . 10 Q And would you likewise describe Exhibit 3^3 11 for the record too? 12 A. It's a memo from Clayton Callis to myself 13 dated February 9th. 14 All right. I presume you got that also, is 15 that right? l A. Yes , 17 a Do you have any specific recollection of 18 those two documents? 19 A. Generally, yes. 20 a If you would, please read Exhibit 3**2, read 21 the material between A and B marked on that exhibit. 22 A. ''I reviewed the outline in your reference 23 memo, I understand February 11th disclosure is for Monsanto 24 only, but that Dr. Susklnd is then clearly free to go 25 public in any manner he wishes. It would seem reasonable JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 1 for ua to request Dr. Suskind to coordinate any release with J: 2 proper communication inside Monsanto, somewhat as you aug3 g e a t ." 4 Q All right, sir. Thank you. 5 1*11 hand you Exhibit 3^3 and ask you to read the 6 materials between A and 3, if you would, please, to the 7 Jury. 8 A. "Following the discussion with Lloyd at 9 lunch on February 8th, I again reviewed with Dan Bishop 10 the game plan for release of the Suskind study. The avail11 able advance information does not indicate any s u r prises." 12 & All right. Thank you. 13 Now, while you were on the Nitro Task Force did you 14 receive any preliminary information about Dr. Su3kind's 15 results from either the mortality study or the morbidity 16 study? 17 A. I personally did not. 18 Cl Do you know anyone who did? 19 A. I believe that some people did. 20 Q Okay. Do you know who those people might 21 have been? 22 A. I'm speculating, but I assume it was Dave 23 Frazer and probably Clayton Callis, possibly someone from 24 our corporate medical group. 25 Q And did you learn what the information was? : JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE \ 1 A. Generally, yes. 2 Q . What was your general knowledge? 3 A. My general perception of the result of the 4 study was there was no significant health problem to the 5 population he studied beyond chloracne. 6 Q, Okay. Do you know when you learned that, 7 some time frame? 8 A. I would have to say probably early *82, 9 somewhere in that time frame. 10 Q Do you know if there was a written report n that contained that information that you testified about? 12 A. I don't recall. I recall a sequence of 13 events. During this period we were anxious to get Suskind 14 to complete his report primarily to relieve the anxiety of 15 our employees at Nitro. He had promised them face-to-face 16 feedback on a study, and during the period I was involved 17 with the Nitro. Task Force that was primarily our interest 18 in accelerating Suskind to complete and publish that report. 19 Obviously from the standpoint of communications we wanted 20 our employees to hear about it first and not have that kind 21 of information leeking to the press or to our own people. 22 The only other thing I want to comment on is through this 23 period of that lawsuit it was always our intent not to allow 24 the lawsuit or the Suskind study to get in the way of our 25 relationships with our people at Nitro, that we would JAM ES MAY REPO RTING SERVICE 1 manage the plant and manage the people to whatever extent 2 we could oblivious to the lawsuit and the Suskind study. 3 Q Okay. Did this preliminary report that you 4 heard about or at least preliminary communication about some 5 preliminary conclusions, was that communicated to the Nitro 6 workers? 7 A. It*s my perception that it was. I d o n 't 8 recall whether that took place after I left or before I left, 9 but it would have had to have been close to that time frame. 10 Q Do you know how that w o u l d have b e e n accom11 plished? 12 A. I knew what the game plan was, and I assume 13 it was followed. 14 Q What was the plan? 15 A. The game p l a n was to have Suskind, as it 16 always had been, come to Nitro and present his findings to 17 our employees, not only current employees but past employees 18 because they were the ones that were studied, Th e y were the 19 ones who volunteered to be the guinea plg3 for these studies 20 and we owed them that. 21 Q So the idea was to have some kind of 22 meeting and invite all the people? 23 A. The game pla n was to have the meeting, and 24 I can't comment as to w h e t h e r all these things to ok place. 25 Q I understand that. ' JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 1 A. But the discussion revolved around having - / / 2 a meeting, inviting appropriate members of the union as well 3 as all. of our employees at present and retired who were a 4 part of the study who wanted to come plus videotaping the 5 presentation in a Q and A so that others who perhaps couldn't make it might have an opportunity to at least first-hand 7 see that if they wanted to. 8 Q Did the game plan include a mechanism to 9 advise each individual worker what his particular problems 10 or lack of problems were as they were determined during the 11 study? 12 A. I don't recall that ever being discussed V , 13 because I'll assume, as in all other work that we have done, 14 if an Individual is found with a specific problem, then 15 that's handled immediately even through his private physi 16 cian and obviously face to face with that individual. That 17 would have been routine process. 18 MR. CALWELL: Thanks, Mr. Matteucci. 19 Itfs been a pleasure. 20 21 22 23 Vincent T. Matteucci 24 25 JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 1 ~r " f' i] A. " j I t x~=ijt -k;aI ' J Aj >a ;' 'i ih, ti i ,, >D C- ! it- r: i Jl >1 >1 $> It !' 31 i / " 'A V... 1 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my 2 hand'mid affixed my notarial seal on this _________ day of 3 1983. 4 5 7 8 Notary Public within and 9 for the County of Madison, 10 In the State of Illinois# 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE