Document YrqeKdNMbJ7xD9y0vmn2xa9vV

ANTONIA TOLBERT, et al. v. MONSANTO COMPANY PHARMACIA, INC., et al. MICHAEL PIERLE May 21, 2003 REAGAN REPORTERS, LLC Phone: 334.262.7556 Fax: 334.262.4437 www.ReaganReporters.com WATER PCB-SD0000021972 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA 2 WESTERN DIVISION "2 4 ANTONIA TOLBERT, et al., Plaintiffs, 5 vs. CIVIL ACTION NO. 6 CV-01-N-1407-W 7 8 MONSANTO COMPANY PHARMACIA, INC., and 9 SOLUTIA, INC., 10 Defendants. 11 12 ****** 13 14 VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION 15 OF MICHAEL PIERLE, 16 taken pursuant to notice and stipulation on 17 behalf of the Plaintiffs, in the Law 18 Offices of Beasley, Allen, Crow, Methvin, 19 Portis & Miles, P.C., 218 Commerce Street 20 Montgomery, Alabama, before Nicole Paulk, 21 Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public in and 22 for the State of Alabama at Large, on May 23 21st, 2003, commencing at 10:06 a.m. Page 1 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021973 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 2 1 APPEARANCES 2 3 FOR THE PLAINTIFFS: 4 (In Montgomery, Alabama) 5 ROBERT R. RODEN, ESQUIRE 6 Shelby, Roden & Cartee 7 2956 Rhodes Circle 8 Birmingham, Alabama 35205 9 10 11 FOR THE DEFENDANTS: 12 (In St. Louis, Missouri) 13 MICHAEL E. KELLY, ESQUIRE 14 Smith, Moore, LLP 15 300 North Green Street 16 Suite 1400 17 Greensboro, North Carolina 27401 18 19 ALSO PRESENT: 20 (In St. Louis, Missouri) 21 BILL HUELSMAN, VIDEOGRAPHER 22 23 1 INDEX 2 EXAMINATION PAGE 3 By Mr. Roden.................... 4 4 5 ******* 6 7 MR. KELLY: Bob, I would suggest 8 the usual stipulations, 9 reserving objections to the 10 form, and Mike would like to 11 read and sign. 12 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Mike, what's 13 your last name? 14 THE WITNESS: Pierle, P-I-E-R-L-E. 15 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay. We're on 16 the record; the witness is 17 Mike Pierle. You may swear 18 in the witness. 19 20 MICHAEL PIERLE, of lawful age, 21 having first been duly sworn, testified as 22 follows: 23 EXAMINATION Page 4 : Page 3 Page 5 1 STIPULATIONS 2 It is stipulated and agreed by and 3 between counsel representing the parties 4 that the videoconference deposition of 5 MICHAEL PIERLE may be taken before Nicole 6 Paulk, Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public 7 in and for the State of Alabama at Large, 8 without the formality of a commission; and 9 all formality with respect to other 10 procedural requirements is waived; that 11 objections to questions, other than 12 objections as to the form of the questions 13 need not be made at this time, but may be 14 reserved for a ruling at such time as the 15 videoconference deposition may be offered 16 in evidence or used for any other purpose 17 by either party as provided by the Federal 18 Rules of Civil Procedure. 19 It is further stipulated and 20 agreed by and between the parties hereto 21 and the witness, that the signature of the 22 witness to this videoconference deposition 23 is hereby NOT waived. 1 BY MR. RODEN: 2 Q. Mr. Pierle, good morning. 3 A. Good morning. 4 Q. I think we have a little delay in our 5 transmission, so we'll have to bear with 6 each other about that. So you may have to 7 wait for me to -- the transmission to get 8 through to you before you can speak and 9 vice versa, okay? 10 A. Very good. 11 Q. Okay. Again, what is your full name. 12 Mr. Pierle? 13 A. Michael A. Pierle. 14 Q. And where do you reside, Mr. Pierle? 15 A. My current address is 770 Gulf Shore Drive 16 in Destin, Florida. 17 Q. And how long have you lived at that 18 address? 19 A. Since about March of 1999. 20 Q. Okay. And prior to that, you were living 21 in Missouri; is that correct? 22 A. That is correct. 23 Q. Then St. Louis? 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www .reaganreporters .com 2 (Pages 2 to 5) 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021974 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 6 Page 8 1 A. In 801--yes. 2 Q. 801 Greenwich Green Lane? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. Okay. And are you presently or currently 5 employed? 6 A. I have a consulting company. 7 Q. What's the name of it? 8 A. Pierle Consulting, Incorporated. 9 Q. And what's the nature of the consulting 10 business? 11 A. I do environmental consulting work -- 12 Q. Of what? 13 A. -- and I do that relatively infrequently as 14 of now. 15 Q. For what type of environmental work -- 16 what -- is it geared toward any particular 17 type of environmental? 18 A. Initially I was doing consulting work for 19 Solutia, and I have done some projects 20 around property acquisitions for other 21 clients. 22 Q. Can you be more specific about that as far 23 as the name of the clients, and what do you 1 or not there were existing or potential 2 property contamination issues that an owner 3 should be -- should be -- or take into 4 consideration in their acquisition process. 5 Q. And so you're working -- or you have worked 6 mainly for the acquiring company or 7 acquiring entity? 8 A. That's correct. And I want to be clear 9 that this was -- has been a relatively 10 small amount of -- of work. Last year I 11 did, I think, only like a day's activity. 12 I have been in retirement since January of 13 '99 and have chosen to primarily stay in 14 retirement. 15 Q. Okay. And you retired in January of '99 16 from Solutia; is that correct? 17 A. That is correct. 18 Q. Now, you mentioned you have done some 19 consulting work for Solutia since your 20 retirement? > 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Tell me about that. What was the nature of 23 that? Page 7 Page 9 1 mean by property acquisitions? 2 A. I've done three or four pieces of work for 3 small companies, predominantly in the state 4 of Missouri, and for the acquiring company 5 was doing basically environmental 6 assessment work, which typically in the 7 industry would be called Phase 1 property 8 assessments. And that work is in essence 9 looking for possible environmental 10 liabilities. 11 Q. Can you be -- can you give me examples of 12 companies and the type of, I guess, 13 environmental properties you were looking 14 at? 15 A. These -- as I said, it was a small number 16 of jobs. One was for a -- a small die 17 casting operation in Saint Clair, Missouri, 18 and for the acquiring entity, I did work 19 that was probably two or three days work, 20 site visit, site assessments, basically 21 walking the property, looking at the 22 property, checking generally available 23 environmental records to determine whether 1 A. For approximately two years, I was retained 2 to assist and continue work that I had been 3 doing on mainly outside activities out -- 4 and by that I mean in trade associations 5 and other entities that Solutia within the 6 chemical industry had an interest in. I 7 had been doing that prior to my retirement, 8 and it was deemed that that was the best 9 way to continue those activities, so I 10 was -- I continued in activities with, for 11 example, the Chemical Manufacturer's 12 Association and continued as Solutia's 13 representative on the Chemical Industry 14 Institute of Toxicology as Solutia's board 15 member, and I was also a member of that 16 executive committee. 17 Q. All right. Since your retirement - go 18 ahead. Did you finish? 19 A. I'm finished. 20 Q. Since your retirement in January of '99, 21 have you done any work on behalf of Solutia 22 or Monsanto or anybody else concerning the 23 Anniston proper or the -- around the plant 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 3 (Pages 6 to 9) 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021975 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 10 Page 12 1 and/or the city of Anniston? 1 Q. Is that something that you, yourself, had 2 A. For a period of time, I attended in some 2 been instrumental in starting; that is, the 3 cases by conference call; in other cases, 3 remediation issues that were in progress? 4 presence, the ongoing Anniston Solutia -- 4 A. I don't recall how that was started. It 5 sort of the -- the Solutia's committee that 5 was -- it was common that as we were 6 was dealing with Anniston, I was in 6 dealing with remediation questions at 7 attendance at some of those meetings. I 7 certain locations, that we typically had a 8 think that continued for about a year, 8 team that was involved in the management of 9 maybe a little bit longer, until basically 9 the issues, and there were -- the types of 10 that team, you know, was -- had completely 10 people that I have described typically 11 taken over that activity. Prior to my 11 would make up the members of that team. 12 retirement, I was obviously a full member 12 Q. Where were -- where was that working group 13 of that working group. 13 as far as the remediation issues were 14 Q. Who is that working group, if you can tell 14 concerned at the last time you attended the 15 me? 15 meetings? 16 A. I don't know who it is today, because I've 16 A. I don't recall specifically the -- the 17 not been involved since, I guess, that 17 project work that was underway. We had 18 would be sometime in -- sometime in 18 completed the sort of stormwater runoff 19 probably 2001. So I don't know who is 19 retention basin projects, or they were near 20 involved in that working group today. 20 completion, and had begun, as I recall, 21 Q. Who was involved in the working group when 21 some of the additional off-site activities. 22 you were involved with it? 22 We had already been through part of the 23 A. I will try to recall some of the players. 23 property acquisition in conjunction with Page 11 Page 13 >s 1 Bob Kaley; Glenn Ruskin was involved in 2 those sessions; Mike Foresman, I believe 3 was the plant manager. There were one or 4 two people at the plant that were involved 5 in those conversations. 6 Q. Is that Mr. Birchfield or is it 7 Branchfield? 8 A. I'm not familiar with that name. 9 Q. Who is the plant manager? 10 A. At -- at -- for a period of time it was 11 Jack Miyausky, and then he was replaced, 12 and I don't recall -- I don't recall the 13 gentleman's name. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. Kevin Cahill was also involved in that -- 16 in that group. That's sort of my 17 recollection of the members. 18 Q. Well, what was the purpose of this working 19 group? 20 A. It was to basically attend to the 21 investigation and remediation issues that 22 were undergoing -- in progress and underway 23 at the Anniston site. 1 the construction project of the stormwater 2 retention basins. I'm not any clearer than 3 that. 4 Q. Well, other than the property acquisitions, 5 what other off-site activities was the 6 committee or working group attempting to 7 accomplish? 8 A. As I recall at that time, it was primarily 9 further investigation of the presence of 10 PCBs. I recall that this was being done in 11 conjunction with the State and under a -- 12 an order, so the scope of work that we were 13 attempting to implement, as I recall, was 14 what had been discussed and agreed with, 15 with the State -- with the State agencies. ; 16 I don't recall the specifics of the work 17 plan. 18 Q. Was that a written work plan? Is that 19 something that's in writing? 20 A. I believe it was, yes. 21 Q. Did it include the testing of soils in and 22 around the off-site? 23 A. I'm not -- I just do not recall the _______________________________________________________________________________ <ti 4 (Pages 10 to 13) 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021976 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 14 Page 16 ; 1 specifics of the work plan. 2 Q. Okay. Well, let me ask you this -- and I 3 should have asked you this earlier -- you 4 have given a deposition concerning the 5 Anniston PCB concerns how many times? 6 A. 1 believe I have done that twice. 7 Q. All right. Then one would have been in the 8 case of Dyar versus Monsanto, which was, I 9 think, the deposition was October of '98; 10 is that your understand -- recollection? 11 A. Yes, that is. 12 Q. And then the other one would have been in 13 the -- I guess, the Myers/Hills case in 14 June of '98? 15 A. I believe that's correct, yes. 16 Q. And are those the only two you recall 17 giving your deposition concerning -- 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. All right. At the time that you testified 20 in the Dyar case, you mention -- and 21 just -- if you have it; I'll tell you the 22 page number if you need to refer to it -- 23 but you made mention that there was an 1 and materials that would separate out of 2 the -- of the water. > 3 Q. Well, let me ask, did this study result in 4 finding that there was PCBs running off of 5 the south landfill? 6 A. My recollection of what, in part, started 7 this was that there were low 8 part-per-billion levels of PCBs detected 9 prior to this time in some stormwater 10 runoff samples, and that gave rise, then, 11 to further discussions and further reports 12 and studies which then resulted in both 13 the -- I think the -- the construction of 14 the stormwater basin as well as some other 15 work that was done around capping the south 16 landfill and some other areas to provide 17 additional assurance of -- to prevent the 18 migration of the potential for any PCBs 19 from the site. 20 Q. So this would have been done sometime after 21 your deposition in the Dyar case, which was 22 in October '98? 23 A. I don't recall the exact -- the exact dates Page 15 Page 17 1 extensive study underway looking at the 2 hydrology of the system, comma, the 3 sources, comma, potential sources, and that 4 report would be instrumental in helping 5 understand the responsibilities of, I 6 guess, Solutia. Can you tell me what that 7 study was and whether it was ever complete? 8 A. I believe that the work at that time was 9 concentrated on the stormwater runoff areas 10 around the landfills and the property. 11 And, yes, I believe that work was completed 12 beforehand and basically provided the basis 13 for the remedial action, which I mentioned, 14 which was the stormwater retention basin. 15 Q. When you say the stormwater runoff areas, 16 can you be -- can you specify what you 17 mean, where that is? 18 A. I believe in that - in that case, there 19 was stormwater areas from, I believe, a 20 south landfill area, and there may have 21 been other areas, but that was drawn into 22 this stormwater retention basin, and then 23 the purpose of collecting sediments and -- 1 of completion of these projects. 2 Q. Well, the reason I -- I'm sorry. Go ahead. 3 A. There has been a series of work, as I 4 recall, from '93/'94 time frame on up to 5 and including the time when I left in 6 January of '99, so it's difficult to recall 7 in a more slender time frame exactly what 8 work was happening at what time. 9 Q. Well, the only reason, you know, I say it 10 that way was in October of '98, when your 11 deposition was taken the last time, as I 12 understand, the extensive study that you 13 were talking about was underway and had not 14 been completed, and therefore you couldn't 15 answer a lot of questions in that 16 deposition. You obviously left the company 17 two months later, but you continued to work 18 with the working group as I understand it. 19 so obviously the completion of that work in 20 the stormwater retention basin was after 21 October '98? 22 A. I think there are -- I know there's a -- an 23 affidavit that has been submitted which 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 5 (Pages 14 to 17) 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021977 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 18 Page 20 1 describes the entire sequence of 2 activities, and I think that is the 3 accurate description of the time lines of 4 the various projects. 5 Q. Is this an affidavit that you have 6 submitted? 7 A. No, I believe it's an affidavit from Bob 8 Kaley. 9 Q. Okay. Do you know when that was prepared 10 and submitted? Because I don't really have 11 it with me. 12 A. I don't, but I know it was -- because it 13 includes -- as I recall in just scanning 14 it, it includes work that is being done in 15 conjunction with EPA, and I think that was 16 after I left, so it was sometime after I 17 left, but I don't know how -- how much 18 after the -- after I left. 19 MR. KELLY: Bob, as a point of 20 clarification, that was in 21 the Abernathy case but was 22 provided to a note to Johnny 23 Norris in -- during the 1 company? 2 A. I began my work out of school working in 3 their environmental group and my 4 responsibilities were primarily focused on 5 monitoring discharges from the -- the plant 6 site. 7 Q. And discharges of what? 8 A. We were doing primarily work in the water 9 area on phenols, and that's P-H-E-N-O-L-S, 10 and what was termed COD, or chemical oxygen 11 demand. These were two parameters that 12 were of importance in matters with the 13 regulatory -- the state regulatory agency 14 at that time, and I was also involved in a 15 sulfur dioxide monitoring program, which 16 included both stack levels from our power 17 plant as well as levels in the ambient area 18 around the plant site. 19 Q. So did that plant manufacture PCBs? 20 A. Yes, it did. 21 Q. Did you have anything -- did you work in 22 the area of PCBs as far as monitoring the 23 discharge of that? Page 19 Page 21 1 course of either Dr. -- I 2 believe during Dr. Clarke's 3 deposition, but it's been on 4 file in other cases. 5 MR. RODEN: I'm sure we have it, 6 Mike. 7 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 8 MR. RODEN: I'm just not -- I 9 didn't have it, that's all. 10 I know -- I'm sure we do. 11 MR. RODEN: Understood. 12 Q. Let me ask a little bit, Mr. Pierle, 13 about -- a little bit about your background 14 with the companies involved here. As I 15 understand from the Dyar depositions 16 testimony, you began working for Monsanto 17 in 1966; is that correct? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And where were you actually physically 20 located with the company in 1966? 21 A. I began work at the W.G. Krummrich plant in 22 what is now Sauget, S-A-U-G-E-T, Illinois. 23 Q. And what exactly were you doing in that 1 A. Sometime -- and again, it was late '68 or 2 '69 -- and I left that plant site in August 3 of '70 -- we began a program to understand 4 whether or not there were losses from the 5 PCB department and began to define and 6 undertake measures to reduce those losses. 7 Q. Can you -- do you know what prompted that; 8 that is, the monitoring? 9 A. I -- I remember that around that time there 10 was some more public information about PCBs 11 and concerns about them as an environmental 12 contaminant, and the company management, 13 somebody, put together a work group at the 14 site of which I was a member to conduct 15 this sort of study, monitoring, and 16 attempted project work to reduce losses 17 from the department. 18 Q. Can you -- can you quantify what y'all 19 were -- y'all found as to being the amount 20 of losses that you were finding? 21 A. I don't recall. 22 Q. And so you worked on that particular -- or 23 part of your work involved that particular 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 6 (Pages 18 to 21) 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021978 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 22 Page 24 ' 1 part of your job in '68 and '69; is that 2 what you're saying? 3 A. That's my recollection of the time frame. 4 I know I left in '70, and I know it 5 happened sometime prior to that leaving, 6 but it seemed it was in the late '60s that 7 this activity was undertaken. 8 Q. And where did you go after you left that 9 facility? 10 A. I transferred to a plant in Bridgeport, New 11 Jersey, that was called the Delaware River 12 Plant, and I was their environmental 13 engineer at that site. 14 Q. What did they manufacture? 15 A. That plant was primarily a -- what is 16 called a plasticizer manufacturing 17 operation. 18 Q. Like something in the nature of plastics, 19 or am I simplifying it too much? 20 A. I think the simple answer is these are 21 materials that, as I recall, were mixed 22 with certain plastics to make them more 23 pliable -- 1 I really wasn't involved in the process 2 changes; I was primarily involved in the 3 activity around the disposal of the PCB 4 liquids. 5 Q. Can you quantify the amount of the PCB 6 liquids that you were trying to dispose of? 7 A. I do not recall the volumes in those units. 8 Q. Can you tell me the manner and method you 9 used to dispose of them? What did you do 10 with them? 11 A. As I recall, those materials were sent for 12 incineration. 13 Q. Sent where? 14 A. They were sent for incineration. I -- I do 15 not recall the -- the place that we used 16 for -- for -- for incineration and burning 17 and disposal. 18 Q. Was there -- and what time frame are we 19 talking about, Mr. Pierle? 20 A. As I recall, that would have been maybe 21 '71, '72. I could be off there somewhat. 22 but it seemed like it was the early '70s. 23 Q. How long were you at the Bridgeport, New , , Page 23 Page 25 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. -- something like what would go into floor 3 tiling, that sort of thing. 4 Q. So you again at that plant were not -- 5 would not have been involved in any way 6 with PCBs; is that correct? 7 A. The only involvement I recall us having at 8 that plant site is that we -- we had what 9 were heat transfer units -- and I -- I 10 don't recall whether there was one or two, 11 but during that time, the company was 12 changing over its fluids to non-PCB 13 materials, and we -- I was involved in 14 basically, as I recall, the activities to 15 arrange for disposal of the liquid 16 materials that we had removed from the -- 17 the heat transfer units. 18 Q. That is, the PCB material? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. What was it -- what were the heat transfer 21 units being transferred to? What was the 22 new material that was going to be used? 23 A. You know, I -- I don't recall that because 1 Jersey, location? 2 A. I stayed at that location through mid-1974. 3 Q. Was there any type of regulations that 4 would govern the disposal of PCBs at that 5 point in time? 6 A. I don't believe so. 7 Q. Was there ever -- has there ever been a 8 regulation that you know of that governs 9 the disposal in the same way you did then; 10 that is, incineration? 11 A. I don't recall the specifics. I know over 12 time there became standards for PCB waste 13 management for liquids and for solid 14 materials and soils, but I don't recall the 15 timing or the sequence of those 16 regulations. 17 Q. Can you tell me the -- were you involved in 18 any way in the decision to change over from 19 PCB to the non-PCB material? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Did you see any type of documentation 22 concerning the reasons why it was changed 23 over? 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 7 (Pages 22 to 25) 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021979 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 26 Page 28 1 A. No. 2 Q. All right. After you left Bridgeport, 1 Q. And then where did you go from there? 2 A. At the end of that year, I was offered a 3 where did you go? 4 A. I moved to the Washington, D.C., area, and 3 position to come back to Monsanto in the 4 St. Louis area as a manager of 5 1 worked for one year at the Department of 5 environmental protection, and we -- my 6 Commerce in what was an Office of 6 family and I returned to the St. Louis 7 Environmental Affairs, I believe. 7 area, and I believe I began working 8 Q. Now, at Newport -- at Bridgeport, New 8 sometime in the August of 1975 time period. 9 Jersey, were you still working for 9 Q. All right. And as manager of environmental 10 Monsanto? 10 protection, is that -- 11 A. Yes, I was. 11 A. I believe that -- that was the correct 12 Q. And when you went to Washington, D.C., who 12 title for the position. 13 were you working for? 13 Q. When you went to the -- back to Monsanto in 14 A. The Department of Commerce, the government 14 '75, what, if any, connections did you have 15 Q. So you actually had left Monsanto? 15 to the Anniston facility? 16 A. Yes. 16 A. None. 17 Q. Did you have any connections to Monsanto as 17 Q. When would it have been the first time that 18 you -- when you worked for the Department 18 you would have had any responsibilities to 19 of Commerce? 19 the Anniston facility? 20 A. I was basically in a position that was a 20 A. I believe the first connection that I had 21 rotating position in the Department of 21 was sometime in the late ' 80s when the 22 Commerce, and by that I mean they typically 22 Anniston plant, which had been part of 23 had people come in from industry to work in 23 Monsanto agricultural company operations. Page 27 Page 29 1 one of their job positions for about a 2 year, and during that time period, as I 3 recall, I had a dollar a year sort of 4 employment agreement with Monsanto that 5 allowed my medical benefits and things of 6 that nature to stay in place. I was not 7 under an employment contract or a term 8 employment contract, so I was being paid by 9 the Department of Commerce; I had an 10 arrangement that allowed for some of my 11 benefits to continue during that time 12 period. At the end of the year, there was 13 not an agreement, there was nothing that 14 said I'll come back to Monsanto or they 15 have to take me back; it was open-ended at 16 the end of the year. 17 Q. Okay. But as far as Monsanto's concerned, 18 you didn't do any type of work outside the 19 Department of Commerce for them? 20 A. I did not. 21 Q. All right. So you stayed there for what, 22 '74 to '75, something like that? 23 A. Yes. 1 was being considered to be transferred back 2 to the chemical company operations. And I 3 became involved at that time. 4 Q. I -- I -- I don't understand. In the late 5 '80s you're saying the Monsanto plant in 6 Anniston was an agricultural -- 7 A. My recollection is that plant had made -- 8 had been predominantly an agriculture -- 9 had made agricultural chemical products -- 10 Q. Right. 11 A. -- and had been assigned for management 12 purposes to the agricultural company. And 13 in the -- in that time period, I believe 14 the agricultural company was in the process 15 of closing down its last agricultural 16 chemical production, and the question then 17 arose, since there are still chemical 18 company operations here, should the plant 19 be moved under the management umbrella of 20 the chemical company. 21 Q. So in the -- prior to that time, then, do I 22 understand it that the plant in Anniston 23 was making or producing agricultural-type ,, . , t, , ' .................. 8 (Pages 26 to 29) 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021980 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 30 Page 32 1 products and PCBs? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And can you give me a time frame as to how 4 long that had been going on and the 5 agricultural company side had been the 6 managing side of the company? 7 A. I don't recall when that, you know, when -- 8 when the ag -- whether the agricultural 9 people, when they started operations there. 10 I know that plant was acquired sometime in 11 the '30s as I recall, but I don't know 12 exactly when or -- and what the history was 13 of production at the plant site. 14 Q. What agricultural products were being 15 manufactured in the -- that time frame 16 before the change in the ' 80s? 17 A. My recollection, because it was at the end 18 of that time period, was that they had made 19 a decision to exit the parathion business, 20 and that -- the ending of that business 21 then prompted the question of transference 22 of the production site. I don't recall 23 what the prior history was of agricultural 1 Anniston facility? 2 A. The -- the role after or moving this to the 3 chemical company was typical of -- of other 4 plants in that a plant site would have 5 direct responsibilities for meeting 6 environmental requirements, laws and 7 regulations, and internal requirements, and 8 my group, which was a staff group that had 9 influence over all of the plant sites 10 within Monsanto chemical company, would 11 provide regulatory assistance and help in 12 the plant meeting their requirements. 13 Q. Why, Mr. Pierle, would this period of time 14 in the late and/or mid-'80s have prompted a 15 staff group such as yours to get involved 16 with any kind of regulatory situation 17 involving the chemicals? 18 A. The -- this had been standard practice for 19 quite some time or -- 20 Q. This -- what had been -- 21 A. -- the involvement -- I'm sorry. 22 Q. What had been the -- 23 A. -- the involvement -- ; Page 31 Page 33 1 products at that -- at that facility. 2 Q. So -- so when you say management team, is a 3 management team that was the agricultural 4 management, was that team or group located 5 actually in Anniston? 6 A. The -- typically, the -- what I would term 7 the operating company management was in 8 St. Louis, and then each plant site which 9 had its own plant manager and operations 10 team was located at the plant facility, and 11 then that plant manager reported up through 12 some structure into the operating company 13 to which it was assigned. 14 Q. And I assume there would be a plant manager 15 for the agricultural side as well as one 16 for the chemical side? 17 A. No, I don't believe that's correct. At the 18 sites there was typically one plant 19 manager. 20 Q. Okay. All right. So in the late '80s, 21 when you got involved with the Anniston 22 facility, can you give me an idea of what 23 your role was to be in that -- for the 1 Q. I'm sorry. 2 A. We're now having trouble with our 3 communication. 4 Q. I'm sorry. Go ahead. 5 A. I think your question was what in the late 6 '80s would precipitate the involvement of a 7 company-wide staff group in plant 8 activities. 9 Q. Right. 10 A. And my response was, this -- this 11 relationship had existed at least back 12 until the time that I was -- became manager 13 in the mid-'70s, that we've described 14 earlier, that the complexity of rules and 15 regulations, that the resource requirements 16 that were needed in order to effectively 17 manage in this particular area was 18 recognized by management that in addition 19 to the site-related people, that it was 20 useful to have a company-wide group of 21 people that could assist the locations in 22 their activities. So this had been going 23 on for quite some time, and the only thing 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 9 (Pages 30 to 33) 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021981 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 34 Page 36 1 that was really different in the late '80s 2 with respect to Anniston was that it 3 transferred from one operating company, who 4 had a very similar environmental structure, 5 to the chemical company who had the 6 environmental structure that I've 7 described. 8 Q. And so you would have been on the 9 environmental structure side of the 10 chemical company? 11 A. That's correct. I was what was called the 12 director of environmental operations, and 13 then I had a group of people that were 14 working for me who did the primary 15 interface with the -- the plant sites. 16 Q. So you would have been -- to make it clear 17 with me, you would have been the director 18 of environmental operations for the 19 chemical side of the company? 20 A. That's correct. 21 Q. All right. Before that, who would have 22 been your counterpart for the -- as 23 director of environmental operations for 1 you want to. 2 Q. But it's a February 26, 1987, internal memo 3 with a number, DSW119459 Bates stamp. 4 Mr. Pierle, did you author this memo? Was 5 this your memo? 6 A. Yes. I see that I have co-signed this with 7 Mr. Reddington. 8 Q. Okay. Now, is this -- is this the same 9 time frame that you -- you and I have been 10 talking about for the last five minutes or 11 so where you, as director of environmental 12 operations, started working with the 13 Anniston plant? 14 A. Let me just briefly -- because I haven't 15 looked at this -- 16 Q. That's fine. 17 A. -- briefly read this -- 18 Q. Take your time. 19 A. -- and then I'll answer the question. 20 (Witness reviewing document.) I've 21 finished reading this. Could you repeat 22 your question, then, please? 23 Q. I was just trying to get a point of Page 35 Page 37 1 the agricultural side of the company? 2 A. You know, at that time, I -- I don't recall 3 specifically. I do know that Dennis 4 Reddington was an environmental manager in 5 the agricultural company, and I believe he 6 reported to a person with a similar title 7 as mine, director of environmental 8 operations or something, but I don't recall 9 exactly who that was. 10 Q. Okay. I mentioned to Mr. Kelly earlier 11 that there was a document that I wanted you 12 to be -- to have in front of you, and -- 13 MR. RODEN: Mike, do you have 14 that? 15 MR. KELLY: I do, and I'm going to 16 hand it to Mike. 17 MR. RODEN: Okay. And we can mark 18 it, I guess, if you want to 19 or -- I'm not sure how we can 20 handle that. 21 MR. RODEN: That's fine. 22 MR. RODEN: Or we can refer to it 23 by date and Bates number if 1 reference with respect to your involvement 2 with the Anniston facility, and I was 3 wondering if this might help you give us a 4 time of reference when you had first become 5 involved with the Anniston facility. I 6 think you said earlier -- you were using -- 7 you were saying the mid-'80s -- or maybe 8 you said the late '80s, you said, and I'm 9 wondering is this -- this February '87, is 10 that about the same time we're talking 11 about? 12 A. Yes, it is. 13 Q. All right. So would this have been the 14 very beginning of your involvement, or was 15 this some months later, or can you give me 16 some kind of time frame? 17 A. I don't recall, but I would believe it was 18 contemporaneous with this date. 19 Q. Okay. All right. Now, you mentioned 20 Mr. Reddington earlier, who is - you said, 21 Dennis Reddington, who is the environmental 22 manager for the agricultural side of the 23 company; is that correct? 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 10 (Pages 34 to 37) 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021982 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 38 Page 40 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And he signed that along with you? 3 A. Yes, he did. 4 Q. Can you identify any of these other 5 gentlemen that were copied and/or referred 6 to in the memo, Mr. Hal Corbett -- who is 7 he? 8 A. At that time, Hal was a senior executive 9 within the company who had responsibilities 10 which included the environmental health and 11 safety function. 12 Q. Well, was he chemical or agricultural? 13 A. He was -- he had acorporate position and 14 therefore was in that position for the 15 entire company -- for Monsanto Company. 16 Q. Okay. So he would have been -- he would 17 have been responsible for both the chemical 18 and agricultural? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Okay. 21 A. He had -- he certainly had influence over 22 that as the senior executive at Monsanto 23 company for environmental matters. 1 Q. Now, the designation by his name on this 2 memo, C2NJ, does that -- what does that 3 reference? 4 A. That's a building -- a mail code reference 5 for each of these people; designates 6 Building 4 and location within that 7 building and floor. 8 Q. Okay. So that was a -- NJ is not New 9 Jersey; it's just a building designation? 10 Okay. 11 A. That's -- that's correct. 12 Q. All right. Who is Mr. Harness? 13 A. Mr. Harness was also a member of the 14 agricultural chemicals company, and I 15 believe at that time, in seeing this memo, 16 was probably Mr. Reddington's supervisor. 17 Q. Okay. What about the memo makes you say 18 that? Just your memory is... 19 A. Yes. I -- the inclusion of people on the 20 notes would to me indicate -- and I know 21 Bob spent a lot of time in the 22 environmental area, was the lead guy within 23 the agricultural chemical company, I just Page 39 Page 41 1 Q. And was he based in St. Louis? 2 A. Yes, he was. 3 Q. All right. Now, who is R.L. Fields? 4 A. Bob Fields was a member of the agricultural 5 chemicals management team. 6 Q. Are you saying agricultural, slash, 7 chemical? 8 A. No. I'm sorry. I--my reference here 9 would be agricultural chemicals as a unit 10 of Monsanto, and otherwise it would be 11 chemical company as a unit of Monsanto. 12 Q. Well, I guess what I'm trying to -- in my 13 mind I've gotten to thinking about there 14 being two separate divisions or 15 departments -- one is agricultural and one 16 is chemical. Is Mr. Fields in both 17 departments, if you will? 18 A. No. He would be in the agricultural -- 19 Q. Okay. 20 A. -- side of it. 21 Q. All right. And is he also--or was he 22 also in St. Louis? 23 A. I believe he was. 1 couldn't remember exactly if he was there 2 during this time frame, and this suggests 3 to me that he was. 4 Q. All right. And then you have a 5 Mr. Matteucci? 6 A. That's -- that's correct. 7 Q. Who is that? 8 A. Mr. Matteucci. This was a -- was in the 9 chemical company, and he was a director of 10 manufacturing. 11 Q. Was he in St. Louis? 12 A. He was in St. Louis. 13 Q. Okay. And then who is Mr. Mickelson? 14 A. All right. That is Dan Mickelson, and Dan 15 was a member of the agricultural chemical 16 side and he was also in manufacturing and 17 in St. Louis. 18 Q. All right. And then you've got a 19 Mr. Potter -- who is he? 20 A. Mr. Potter at that time was the head of the 21 chemical company unit of Monsanto. 22 Q. Was he an environmental -- he was not in 23 environmental, then? 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www .reaganreporters.com 11 (Pages 38 to 41) 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021983 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 42 Page 44 1 A. He had management responsibilities for the 2 entire chemical company. 3 Q. And he was in St. Louis? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And then Mr. Reding? 6 A. Mr. Reding had the -- the same position as 7 I've described for Mr. Potter for the 8 agricultural -- 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. -- company as a unit of Monsanto. 11 Q. So around this period of time in ' 87 is 12 when the changeover was going to be made 13 and you got involved with the Anniston 14 facility; correct? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And what exactly were you to do or what was 17 your responsibility toward -- with the 18 Anniston facility when you got involved in 19 '87? 20 A. The -- the purpose of this memo was to come 21 to a joint understanding of the 22 environmental situation at the Anniston 23 site as -- with respect to Monsanto 1 respect to the loss of PCBs from the plant 2 in Anniston? 3 A. I've looked at the attachments to this 4 document and -- well, it describes from 5 what I recollect that this was an inventory 6 of the currently active items at the plant 7 site, and the only item I see in here 8 relative to PCBs from an active standpoint 9 was the indication of some work that was 10 planned in the -- the Snow Key -- Creek 11 under the item, PCB removal. 12 Q. Okay. When you say "current active," I 13 assume you mean as opposed to, obviously, 14 inactive, but what would -- what would 15 active versus inactive be? 16 A. As I read this document, it -- it describes 17 the -- and this was primarily a review of 18 issues and the financial accounting around 19 those issues at the site so that we were 20 clear in the transfer of the operation that 21 the finances were under -- were understood. 22 And that way there were a number of what I 23 said then were active issues. There were Page 43 Page 45 1 Company's internal guidelines and 2 requirements and to describe back to our 3 collective management what the current 4 state of environmental matters was at that 5 time. 6 Q. At that point in time, can you tell me what 7 the situation was in Anniston with respect 8 to determining what losses, if any, there 9 had been of PCBs out -- outside the plant? 10 A. May I look at the balance of the memo? 11 Q. Sure. 12 A. It may help me with that. 13 Q. Sure. 14 MR. KELLY: Bob, would this be a 15 good time for a couple minute 16 break for the reporter and -- 17 MR. RODEN: That would be fine. I 18 need a break myself. 19 (Brief recess.) 20 Q. Mr. Pierle, I was asking -- or maybe I 21 better restate it. I was asking you if you 22 knew at the time in February of 1987 what 23 the status of -- or what was known with 1 things that were being done at the plant 2 site at that point in time, one of which 3 indicated again a PCB removal activity 4 in -- in Snow Creek. 5 Q. Where are you referencing or what are you 6 referencing to about that? Where is that? 7 A. I think it's on the fourth page, what 8 you've described as Page 2 and Item Number 9 5. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. PCB removal, Snow Creek. 12 Q. And what is ERAP on the right-hand side of 13 that stand for? 14 A. That was a -- a term that we used for 15 accounting and then describing -- and I 16 believe I'm correct -- their environmental 17 remediation or remedial action plans. 18 Q. Okay. All right. So does not any of this 19 other reflect current active issues 20 concerning the PCBs as far as the remedial 21 actions or monitoring of wells or anything 22 like that? 23 A. There is a -- a reference to -- in this 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 12 (Pages 42 to 45) 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021984 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 46 Page 48 1 to -- and let me find it -- some various 2 land -- RECRA monitoring that I think was 3 underway at the site, but my recollection 4 was that PCBs were not a subject matter of 5 that ongoing work. 6 Q. Of the remediation? 7 A. Of the -- what are defined as the 8 groundwater or - and RECRA monitoring 9 activities. 10 Q. What was that concerned with? 11 A. As I recall, under the RECRA, which was a 12 federal statute for monitoring waste 13 disposal facilities, that there were 14 certain wells around the plant site, and 15 those wells were monitored for a certain 16 set of materials. And it was in a program 17 to ascertain and determine if there were 18 any groundwater impacts resulting from 19 RECRA-permitted disposal facilities. 20 Q. Well, now, up until this time, as I 21 understand your testimony, Mr. Reddington, 22 who was on the agricultural side of the 23 environmental management, would have been 1 time -- in this time period who you would 2 have looked to, to determine what PCB 3 issues did exist or did not exist? 4 A. I think both Dennis and I would have looked 5 principally to the people at the plant site 6 at this time to help us understand what 7 were the issues that were active at the -- ! 8 at the plant site. 9 Q. And can you give me any -- can you remember 10 any particular names of those people? 11 A. You know, I -- I don't really recall at 12 that time who the site environmental person 13 was. 14 Q. Can you give me any names of any site 15 environmental people that would have been 16 there at any time from 19 -- or from ' 87 17 until the time you left? 18 A. Now, this is more towards the '90s time 19 frame -- 20 Q. Okay. 21 A. -- so I don't know where they were in 22 the -- in the'80s. Robert Jones was an 23 environmental manager at the site. I do Page 47 Page 46 1 the one who would have kept up with what, 2 if any, losses of PCBs there may have been. 3 Is that -- is that right or wrong? 4 A. Again, going back and reflecting on the 5 plant structure, the -- the primary people 6 that were following the regulatory 7 activities were the people at the plant 8 site -- 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. -- and that Mr. Reddington as an 11 environmental manager a level above would 12 have had more broader less detailed 13 knowledge of what was going on at the site. 14 And I think then, specific to your question 15 of PCBs, again, as I read this and 16 recollect from both Dennis and I 17 examination of issues in the '87 time 18 period, is that there -- there were not 19 issues of PCB, for example, in the 20 groundwater, that the PCB issue at that 21 time was focused on the PCB removal Snow 22 Creek ERAP item. 23 Q. All right. Can you give me an idea at this 1 remember Jerry Brown would have been an 2 environmental person at the site for quite 3 some time. I guess those are the only two 4 names that come to mind. 5 Q. Okay. Just to give me a sense of -- of 6 structure or organization, you're saying 7 that at the site, that is, the Monsanto 8 plant in Anniston, there would have been a 9 man -- an environmental manager, if you 10 will; correct? 11 A. Yeah. He may have been - this was a small 12 site, so he may have had a different name, 13 but there would have been a person, at 14 least, at the site that had primary 15 responsibilities for environmental matters. 16 Q. And environmental matters would include -- 17 I assume it would include anything to do 18 with PCBs; correct? 19 A. If there were -- if there were active 20 issues, yes. 21 Q. Okay. And again, making sure I understand 22 what you mean by "active" -- I guess you 23 need to explain to me again what you 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 13 (Pages 46 to 49) 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021985 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 50 Page 52 1 specifically mean by "active issues." 2 A. It -- it -- I would say a -- maybe a simple 3 term is that it would have been an issue 4 that would have been in active conversation 5 with the regulatory matters or the subject 6 of an ongoing, say, plant permit. That's 7 what I mean as active, anything that was 8 requiring active work at the -- at the 9 plant site. 10 Q. Could we use the word -- could we use as a 11 synonymous word "concern"? I mean, it 12 might have -- be to the point where it was 13 a concern -- or am I -- is that too strong 14 of a word? 15 A. That's -- I don't know if it's too strong a 16 word, but it's -- 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. --1 don't know how to describe it. 19 Q. Okay. I think I understand what you're 20 saying. Now, in this transition period 21 you're talking about in '87, did you -- as 22 the environmental operation -- or director 23 of environmental operation, did you come to 1 Q. Did you ever deteimine in your mind how the 2 PCBs had gotten into Snow Creek? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Was it an issue with you that -- as to 5 whether or not the PCBs got into Snow Creek 6 from the Anniston facility, that is, the 7 Monsanto facility? 8 A. No. We, at this time, were again 9 principally focused on trying to delineate 10 the projects and the monies around those 11 projects that would need to be understood 12 as this plant site was being transferred 13 from one operating company to the -- to the 14 other, and that was really the content and 15 the context of this discussion. 16 Q. So you would not have -- then I understand 17 what you're saying is, you would not have 18 been concerned at this point in time about 19 what the prior history was concerning the 20 PCB issue? 21 A. That's correct. 22 Q. All right. All right. So after this 23 initial meeting, as I understand what ; Page 51 Page 53 1 find out that there had been an active 2 issue involving escapes of PCBs from the 3 Anniston Monsanto facility? 4 A. I -- I do not recall that as being a 5 subject matter in and around the 6 development and the creation of this 7 document. 8 Q. Well, I'm just trying from -- 9 A. Other than the Snow -- other than the Snow 10 Creek conversation that we -- we discussed. 11 Q. Okay. Can you give me some ideas about 12 what the conversation was concerning the 13 remediation of Snow Creek? I mean, what -- 14 why was that an active issue? 15 A. All I recall there was that there was a -- 16 an open item with the State concerning PCB 17 removals in Snow Creek and that there was 18 work that was contemplated, and I believe 19 that we were leaning to further 20 conversations with the State on the 21 acceptability of that removal plan or were 22 okay to proceed. That's what I recall 23 around this particular item. 1 you're saying, this memo concerned the 2 financial -- along with the other issue 3 you're talking about -- but the financial 4 accounting of what the active issues were 5 concerning, not just PCBs but other 6 matters? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. All right. Now, what -- after this initial 9 involvement, what -- what was your 10 continuing role in the PCB Anniston -- PCB 11 Anniston facility? 12 A. I don't recall much ongoing work from this 13 point forward. I was, as I said, director 14 of environmental operations. At that time 15 I had a number of people working for me, 16 and an environmental manager that would 17 have been one level down from me would have 18 taken on the active communications with the 19 plant sites around all environmental 20 matters. 21 Q. And who would that person have been? 22 A. You know, I don't recall -- I don't recall 23 exactly who that person was. 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 14 (Pages 50 to 53) 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021986 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 54 Page 56 1 Q. Well, how long did you stay with -- as 2 the -- as I understand, you were vice 3 president of environmental safety and 4 health; is that correct? Well, that was 5 later? 6 A. Well, yes, at this time I was, as we've 7 described, director of environmental 8 operations, and I retained that position 9 until April of 1991 when I was appointed as 10 the vice president of environmental health 11 and safety for Monsanto Company. 12 Q. So you were director of environmental -- 13 environmental management up until April of 14 '91, and you would have been -- so 15 therefore you would have been the director 16 of environmental management for the -- with 17 the Monsanto plant in Anniston from about 18 '87 through '91? 19 A. Yes. One slight correction, was director 20 of environmental operations, I think was 21 the -- 22 Q. Okay. I'm sorry. 23 A. -- was the title. 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Okay. Now, during -- 3 A. I would -- 4 Q. I'm sorry. Go ahead. 5 A. I'm fine. Thank you. 6 Q. During the '87 -- '91 time frame, director 7 of environmental operations and after this 8 February '87 memo, do you recall any active 9 issues -- any other active issues 10 concerning PCBs at the Anniston facility? 11 A. No, I do not. 12 Q. All right. Then as -- when you became vice 13 president of environmental safety and 14 health in '91, what were your duties -- or 15 what was the change in the duties for you? 16 A. At that time I was primarily responsible 17 for managing a corporate staff of 18 approximately 100 individuals, and our 19 functions included setting or recommending 20 internal environmental health and safety 21 policies. A lot of compliance with those 22 policies and maintaining understanding of 23 external federal laws and regulations and : Page 55 Page 57 1 Q. Okay. And you don't remember, during that 2 '87 to '91 period, who would have worked 3 under you, directly under you? 4 A. I recall that I had, maybe, four 5 environmental managers that were covering 6 20 to 30 plants, and I just don't recall to 7 which of these individuals the -- the 8 Anniston plant was grouped. 9 Q. Can you give me some of their names -- and 10 it might appear somewhere in -- 11 A. Mike Foresman. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. Leo Parrity, and again I'm reflecting on 14 the time frame where some of these people 15 may or may not have continued to work. A 16 Richard Joslin. I had other functions. I 17 think at least those three guys were 18 handling most of the plant sites. 19 Q. All right. So each one of them would have 20 been assigned a certain number of plants. 21 I mean, so one of -- maybe one of these 22 three may have been in the -- have had the 23 Anniston facility? 1 maintaining Monsanto's presence in external 2 working groups, such as industry groups, 3 environmental groups, regulatory groups. 4 Q. All right. And you held that position with 5 Monsanto until '97, when it became Solutia; 6 correct? 7 A. That is correct. 8 Q. Now, up until the time it became Solutia 9 from '91 until '97, did there -- there come 10 a time that additional PCB-active issues 11 came about at the Monsanto plant? 12 A. At the Anniston plant? 13 Q. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 14 A. There was in the -- I'll say mid-'90s, a 15 set of items that began to come forward, 16 one of which I recall was a property 17 reacquisition from, I believe, Alabama 18 Power. 19 Q. Right. 20 A. And at that time the -- there was a policy 21 within the company that you needed the 22 environmental health and safety function 23 sign-off on the acquisition of property. 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 15 (Pages 54 to 57) 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021987 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 58 Page 60 1 And I remember some conversations, I 2 believe they were with Mike Foresman at 3 that time around that subject, and then 4 subsequent to that time period, we also 5 went through some internal organizational 6 changes and corporate staff function 7 changes at which time -- and I believe it 8 was in the '95 time period -- I basically 9 became the -- the supervisor over all of 10 the environmental people at the staff 11 function levels within -- within the 12 company. And during -- or sort of 13 commensurate with that, the responsibility 14 for remediation of -- for remediation 15 projects for the company then came under my 16 responsibilities. 17 Q. And that was in '95? 18 A. So at that time -- so at that time, the 19 work that began to unfold with respect to 20 the Anniston site as it dealt with PCBs, 21 which we have previously mentioned the 22 stormwater runoff activity, that became 23 under my -- under my direct responsibility. 1 defining. 2 Q. When you say property acquisition, was 3 there a -- an acquisition program 4 developed? 5 A. Yes, there was. 6 Q. And who developed that program? 7 A. It was developed by people internally with. 8 as I recall, some help of outside experts 9 that had developed the new real estate -- 10 real estate acquisition, and there was a 11 group of people, all of which -- I don't 12 recall who was involved -- but in 13 conjunction with the project and the 14 stormwater containment, there was a need to 15 develop and to acquire properties in order 16 to allow us to construct what needed to be 17 constructed, and it was in that context, as 18 I recall, that we began this property 19 acquisition program. 20 Q. And did that -- did that program continue 21 to expand; that is, did it get larger? 22 A. I recall that it did commensurate with, I 23 believe, additional work we were doing with Page 59 Page (> 1 ; 1 Q. And so that would have been around '95? 2 A. That's my recollection. 3 Q. Okay. All right. And at that point in 4 time, what was the -- was the only active 5 issue then the -- the storm runoff issue? 6 A. Yeah. Following the -- you know, the 7 property acquisition, there began a series 8 of studies and investigations, as I recall, 9 around the possibility or the presence of 10 PCBs and stormwater runoff that led to, as 11 we've described, the stormwater set of 12 issues, and then that also moved into some 13 of the property acquisition issues. As I 14 recall, sort of in that time frame, there 15 were a couple of issues with respect to 16 churches within that property acquisition 17 issue, and then it -- it developed into 18 broader area sampling and determinations of 19 PCBs in other parts of the area proximate 20 to the plant site. There was a, as I 21 recall, series of issues and investigations 22 and potential items that we were actively 23 engaged in with the ADEM in studying and 1 the state to look at the potential for PCBs 2 in other areas near the plant site, and I 3 think as that information developed, there 4 were additional offerings of acquisition, 5 you know, consistent with that 6 investigation work. 7 Q. You've mentioned the State, and I assume 8 you mean the Alabama Department of 9 Environmental Management. Is that -- is 10 that who you mean? 11 A. Yes, I believe -- ADEM, I think that's 12 correct. 13 Q. Did you ever have -- I assume you, 14 yourself, personally had contact with the 15 agency? 16 A. No, I don't believe I did. 17 Q. Okay. All right. Was there any other 18 agencies involved such as the EPA during 19 your tenure? 20 A. At some point in time I recall there was 21 people in the organization in the State I 22 think were having informational 23 conversations with the EPA, but -- but I ; 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 16 (Pages 58 to 61) 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021988 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 62 Page 64 1 believe they were primarily informational 2 in keeping them abreast and aware of what 3 was going on. 4 Q. Were you ever involved with -- I believe 5 you mentioned early on the -- the consent 6 orders or the agreements with the ADEM or 7 the EPA. Did you have any input into 8 those? 9 A. I recall some of the development of the 10 early agreements with ADEM, and the people 11 that were working for me would have been 12 primarily involved in the development of 13 those documents and agreements. 14 Q. Have you had any input into the current 15 proposed consent decree? 16 A. No, I have not. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. Let me be -- let me -- let me be clear. I 19 understand that there's one being 20 negotiated with the EPA -- 21 Q. Right. 22 A. -- and that's what my response refers to. 23 Q. That's what -- yeah. That's what I'm 1 A. I don't know that Monsanto became Solutia. 2 I3 Q. Okay. You're right. 4 A. What happened at that time was a decision 5 to what was termed extend the chemical 6 businesses or basically separate the 7 chemical businesses from Monsanto Company 8 and to create a free-standing company which 9 chose the name Solutia, and that process 10 concluded, I think, in -- sometime in 11 September of 1997. 12 Q. Can you give me an idea of when that 13 process began? 14 A. I don't really recall. I --I think it-15 I remember discussions and meetings that 16 went on for several months, but I don't 17 recall the -- the origin of that 18 conversation -- I wouldn't have been 19 involved in that. 20 Q. All right. Did -- with respect to the -- 21 the facility in Anniston, can you give me a 22 sense of what occurred with respect to the 23 personnel when Monsanto -- or when this ; : Page 63 Page 65 1 referring -- the one that has not been 2 approved, but is proposed at this time. 3 A. That's the one I was referring to. 4 Q. Right. Right. So other than the property 5 acquisitions that you talked about, any 6 other active issues that you were 7 personally involved with up until the time, 8 I guess, you retired? 9 A. No. As I indicated, I think there was a 10 sequence of -- of those projects, and I 11 think even when I retired there were 12 ongoing, you know, study and investigatory 13 work around the site, but it was in that 14 context of those projects that -- that I 15 would have had involvement up to my point 16 of retirement. 17 Q. Now, in 1997, as I understand it, you 18 became the vice president of environmental 19 safety and health for Solutia; correct? 20 A. That's correct. 21 Q. Can you give me somewhat of an, I guess, 22 history of how this -- the Monsanto became 23 Solutia? 1 spin-off occurred and Solutia was created? 2 A. My sense would be that there was really 3 no -- no change in -- in personnel. It 4 would have been, I guess -- the term I 5 would have used would be seamless, that 6 there was continuity at the plant site, and 7 there would have been continuity within the 8 chemical component of -- of Monsanto at the 9 time. Really the only real allocation of 10 people or assignment of people came about 11 primarily in the corporate staff functions 12 that needed to be split up, and part of 13 them who were most familiar with, you know, 14 the chemical unit, went with the chemical 15 unit and the ag unit went with the rest of 16 Monsanto at that time. 17 Q. All right. And then -- and then what 18 happened to Monsanto? 19 A. Monsanto was a -- a free-standing company 20 at that time and later became, I guess, 21 merged with Pharmacia. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. And then I know subsequently Monsanto 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 17 (Pages 62 to 65) 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021989 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 66 Page 68 1 has -- the agricultural businesses within 2 Pharmacia have now become Monsanto, and I 3 guess the rest of Pharmacia has now become 4 Pfizer, but that's -- you know, that's 5 mainly through an understanding of what's 6 going on in the newspaper. 7 Q. Did you -- then you became an employee -- 8 you became employed in 1997 with Solutia? 9 A. That's correct. 10 Q. And you ceased your employment with 11 Monsanto? 12 A. That is correct. 13 Q. And you never -- then I take it, you never 14 had any further connections with Monsanto? 15 A. The only residual connection that I had is 16 that I -- I was at a level of management 17 where I had stock options that had 18 expiration dates, and at the time of the 19 separation of the two companies, people's 20 options were separated, so I had some 21 continuing options at that time in 22 Monsanto, but no business responsibilities 23 or business activities with Monsanto. 1 A. I think they were fairly similar, but at a 2 broader scope. What -- what the -- the 3 intent of the separation was to separate a 4 series of businesses into Solutia or what 5 had been Monsanto Company -- chemical 6 company and the rest of Monsanto 7 businesses. And what we did at that time 8 was again to go through this sort of 9 financial and accounting exercise and look 10 at the -- really within the financial books 11 of Monsanto, the issues in the 12 environmental health and safety area that 13 should flow to what were the chemical 14 businesses which flowed to Solutia and the 15 balance of issues which would then 16 basically stay at -- at Monsanto. So we 17 went back through a historical 18 understanding of both current businesses 19 and past businesses, and we went through 20 and assigned those items relative to go to 21 what became Solutia and what was -- 22 remained as Monsanto. And then we assigned 23 the -- really, the finances associated with Page 67 Page 69 1 Q. Well, I guess you were in the same locale? 2 You stayed -- did you stay in the same 3 place physically? 4 A. I made a change. We indicated the -- 5 locations. The people in the chemical 6 company were consolidated for a period of 7 time on part of what had been the Monsanto 8 Company world headquarters site, and so I 9 was -- I did move into the -- obviously the 10 Monsanto -- or the Solutia Company building 11 in '97 and stayed there through -- 12 basically through my retirement. 13 Q. Now, was there a similar transition type 14 assessment done in '97 that had been done 15 in 1987 when the transition from 16 agricultural to chemical operations was 17 talked about? 18 A. Yes, there was. 19 Q. All right. Can you tell me about what was 20 done in that area and trying to -- if I 21 can -- I'm trying to back at the '87 period 22 and see if there was a similar - what the 23 similarities were. 1 those businesses into those two companies 2 and that was the methodology that was 3 basically used then to separate from the 4 business down directly to the business, 5 which then separated out the financial 6 reserves and accounting associated with 7 those businesses at the time of separation. 8 Q. Of course at that time in 1997, the active 9 issues involving PCBs had changed; there 10 were more? 11 A. There -- there were more. The -- as I 12 indicated, though, that we separated 13 primarily on a business, both current 14 businesses and past businesses and since, 15 for example, the PCB business had been 16 historically a chemical company business 17 and was a past business, it was basically 18 put in the Solutia column, if you will. 19 And this was typical of what we did for 20 other businesses that had been either sold 21 or shut down or previously -- or that had 22 existed prior in -- in the Monsanto 23 company's history. 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 18 (Pages 66 to 69) 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021990 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 70 Page 72 1 Q. But in considering the financial accounting 2 aspect, you were looking at the active 3 issues that involved PCBs; correct? 4 A. Amongst other things, that's correct. 5 Q. And, like, in 1987, did you assign a 6 certain reserve, if you will, or 7 prospective cost of the environmental 8 remedial requirements for the active PCB 9 issues? 10 A. We did have a -- an ongoing program that 11 you noted was this ERAP process, and that 12 was a process whereby for an environmental 13 remediation projects we needed to establish 14 at particular points in the definition of 15 those projects, reserves, and those -- that 16 had been done and had been done on a 17 continual basis. And what we did as a 18 result of the '97 separation was to go in 19 and look at those reserves and separate out 20 those reserves that attach to the projects 21 that were being included in the chemical 22 business, the Solutia business, and those 23 reserves that were attached to the 1 projects, and at the time the accounting 2 mechanism that was required was that you 3 have what I'd call line-by-line reserves, 4 so for each project we were working, we had 5 to have a reserve. And I -- I don't 6 recall, you know, what at that particular 7 point in time was in what you might 8 describe as an Anniston reserve. 9 Q. Was there a reserve -- or was one of the 10 projects or any of the projects concerned 11 with litigation? 12 A. This -- this would not have included 13 litigation activities. That -- that was 14 not under the purview of -- of sort of my 15 function in environmental remediation 16 function. 17 Q. Would your -- would one of the projects 18 have been the remediation of private 19 properties? 20 A. To the extent that -- I don't recall there 21 specifically whether to the extent that 22 they were remediation, whether they were 23 included in these reserves or not. I just Page 71 Page 73 1 businesses that remained at Monsanto. 2 Q. What reserves do you recall that were 3 attached to the projects in the chemical 4 business? 5 A. I'm not sure I understand the question. 6 Q. Well, as I understand in your -- in 1987 7 there had been some -- there were some 8 reserves assigned to the environmental 9 sector, and I understand it may not all 10 include PCBs. But in 1997, what reserves 11 were assigned or attached to those projects 12 that would be included in the 13 environment - in the chemical business or 14 that would have been assigned, I guess, to 15 Solutia? 16 MR. RODEN: Object to the form and 17 Bob, just a point of 18 clarification, for the 19 Anniston plant or all of the 20 chemical plants? 21 MR. RODEN: The Anniston plant. 22 A. I -- I don't recall what the specifics 23 were. We had a fairly large number of 1 don't recall the -- the accounting and 2 exactly where that -- you know, whether 3 that ended up in remediation reserves or 4 whether it ended up in some other 5 accounting mechanism. I don't recall the 6 specifics of that. 7 Q. Well, other than remediation reserves, what 8 other reserves would there be as far as 9 your project -- or your involvement was 10 concerned? 11 A. That - the remediation reserve was the 12 only reserve I would have had 13 responsibility and understanding of. 14 Q. And you don't recall discussing remediation 15 of private properties? 16 A. No. I do recall discussing that, and the 17 project involved our group's active 18 participation. What I don't recall clearly 19 is whether we included those costs in the 20 environmental reserve accounting. I just 21 don't recall that. 22 Q. Along that -- that topic, was there any 23 discussion that you recall during the '97 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 19 (Pages 70 to 73) 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021991 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 74 Page 76 1 period of time involving properties within 2 like a floodplain or a flood basin? 3 A. Yes. I believe that some of the extended 4 sampling work that was being done was in 5 part around areas that may have included 6 areas around drainage systems. I'm not 7 sure whether floodplain or the right 8 terminology is -- 9 Q. Right. 10 A. -- but there was -- there was some work in 11 trying to sort of determine if there had 12 been flow, where did the flow go and what 13 is the status of the properties proximate 14 to that. 15 Q. Would that have been part of the analysis 16 of determining what might have been some 17 reserves that might be needed for 18 remediation; that is, what properties, for 19 instance, in the floodplain or I call it -- 20 and you call it water basin -- whichever 21 term you want to use? 22 A. Yeah. Let me describe, maybe, a little bit 23 of what we did on reserves and see if 1 the knowledge of -- of what the situation 2 was as well as what a determination of a 3 commitment would be. I don't know if that 4 answers your question -- 5 Q. Well, it helps, but I guess my -- what I 6 was trying to get at was, at least, any 7 properties outside of the flood -- or the 8 water basin, or floodplain I'll call it, 9 was not considered in determining those 10 reserves; is that correct? 11 MR. RODEN: Object to the form. 12 A. Bob, I'm not again, as I said, a hundred 13 percent certain as to where property 14 acquisition off-site was included. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. I don't think I can be any more responsive 17 to your question. 18 Q. Now, Mr. Pierle, back in your deposition in 19 '90 -- the '98, you had said that it was a 20 common and, I think, acceptable practice in 21 the 1960 time period for companies to 22 discharge chemicals into the water system. 23 Is that -- is that your understanding? ; : Page 75 Page 77 1 that -- see if that helps. But the process 2 that we had in place to establish reserves 3 was primarily consistent with a degree of 4 knowledge about a potential for expenditure 5 and then a commitment to expenditure. So 6 we would typically -- if we had agreed with 7 ADEM, for example, around a sampling 8 scheme -- 9 Q. Right. 10 A. -- we would have attempted to estimate what 11 the cost of that program was and included 12 that in our reserve calculations. 13 Subsequent to that, once one began to 14 understand what the monitoring data was 15 showing and what the conversations with 16 ADEM were proceeding to a point of what a 17 remedial action might be, once it was able 18 to determine that and to be able to put 19 some financial quantification to it, then 20 we would establish a reserve for that phase 21 of -- of the work. So the reserve -- the 22 establishment of work of reserves for each 23 project was sort of a sequential, based on 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. You know what I'm referring to? 3 A. I believe so. And I think my reference 4 there was that during that time period, 5 that generally in the United States, there 6 was -- 7 (Brief interruption.) 8 Q. You may have answered my last question, but 9 I didn't hear it. 10 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Let me go back 11 on the record, please. 12 MR. RODEN: I'm sorry. Go for it. 13 (Off-the-Record discussion.) 14 Q. Mr. Pierle, you may have answered my last 15 question, but I didn't hear it. So do you 16 want me to ask it again, or do you remember 17 the question? 18 A. If you would, please, ask again. 19 Q. I was referring to your testimony in the 20 Dyar case referencing the common practice 21 to dump materials or put materials in 22 rivers and streams by various manufacturing 23 facilities. And you said that was 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 20 (Pages 74 to 77) 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021992 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 78 Page 80 1 acceptable practice for companies to do 2 that; is that -- do you remember that 3 testimony? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And I assume that's still your opinion -- 6 that's still your belief and testimony; 7 correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And was that because there was no 10 regulations concerning that issue? 11 A. During -- during that time period, as I 12 recall, there were -- the regulatory 13 structure was -- consisted primarily of 14 state and local regulations, and the -- the 15 level of treatment that existed on 16 wastewater discharges, both municipal and 17 industrial business, was in many cases 18 nonexistent, and that is what I was 19 referring to, that as I began to work and 20 began to become acquainted with the plants 21 and operations and other industries and 22 municipalities, that was pretty much the 23 conditions that existed as acceptable 1 treatment methodology, but I think the 2 prime determinant, as I recall, during that 3 time was -- was driven by the regulatory 4 structure in which facilities existed. 5 Q. Well, but are you saying that there was 6 not -- what methods were available in the 7 '60s to control wastewater discharge? 8 A. Again, I think in most cases they were what 9 I call would be direct discharges or 10 uncontrolled discharges. What was 11 primarily referred to at that time in terms 12 of treatment may have been in some cases 13 what I call neutralization or adjustment of 14 acidic and basic discharges. 15 Q. For instance, limestone -- 16 A. It was fairly limited. 17 Q. Limestone pits, that kind of thing? Is 18 that what you're saying when you say 19 neutralization? 20 A. That would have been one methodology that 21 would have been used or what I would term 22 to neutralize wastewater discharges. 23 Q. But there are no other -- there was no Page 79 Page 81 1 practice in the late '60s. That began to 2 subsequently change with increased laws and 3 regulations and practices over time, but 4 in the late '60s, I think that accurately 5 described what was general practice. And 6 that would have included regulatory 7 requirements and expectations. 8 Q. Well, but you're not saying there were no 9 standards in existence in the industry 10 concerning wastewater discharge, are you, 11 as opposed to regulations? 12 A. Again, in terms of industry standards, are 13 you asking general industry standards or 14 some standard that existed within, you 15 know, industries broadly? 16 Q. Yes, sir. 17 A. I don't recall or remember any what I would 18 call general or universal industry 19 standards on controlling discharges. 20 Q. Well, were there means and methods 21 available in the industry to control 22 wastewater discharge in the '60s? 23 A. There -- in some cases there was some 1 other methods used by the industry to 2 either prevent wastewater discharge as 3 opposed to neutralize? 4 A. I don't - again, we've kind of moved from 5 standards or practice industry or 6 governmental, which in general there 7 weren't requirements. I don't recall, you 8 know, in the late '60s, mid-'60s, what the 9 host of available technologies -- I know at 10 the plant that I started working -- worked 11 at, there was - which was in a sort of an 12 industrial complex, many different 13 manufacturing sites, we were at that stage 14 just beginning to install and develop 15 projects for what is called primary 16 primary treatment or sedimentation and 17 removal of what would commonly be termed 18 materials that float or sink. But we were 19 just in the process, I think, even at that 20 site of the installation of some of that 21 technology. 22 Q. What period are you talking about? What 23 period of time? 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 21 (Pages 78 to 81) 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021993 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 82 Page 84 1 A. I started work in 66 and one of my jobs 2 there was sort of to look after a plant 3 that got constructed and started in 4 operation kind of mid -- right after -- I 5 think it was right after I started working. 6 Q. Then when you went -- when you worked that 7 one year with the Department of Commerce as 8 officer of environmental affairs, did you 9 come to find out there were industries that 10 did, in fact, utilize means and methods to 11 control wastewater discharge? 12 A. Actually, part of the work that I did there 13 did affect industries other than the 14 chemical industry, and what we were working 15 on was the development -- EPA was in the 16 process of actually developing discharges 17 for standards which included an 18 understanding of treatment technologies 19 that could potentially be applied. So in 20 '74 we were really in a -- in a process 21 of -- for most industries of understanding 22 for the current discharges, were there 23 technologies that could be developed and 1 technologies were, in fact, available? 2 A. I think from there at the site where I 3 worked at the Delaware River, we were -- we 4 were in the process of -- of developing the 5 technology that could be used for that -- 6 that plant site for wastewater treatment. 7 So again, in that time frame, there was 8 a -- there was a large amount of activity 9 around the development and application of 10 technologies. 11 Q. I guess what I'm trying to differentiate 12 between is the standards or the mandatory 13 standards that ultimately came into 14 existence that utilized the technologies 15 that may have been in existence but weren't 16 utilized by the industry; isn't that -- 17 isn't that the way it was? 18 A. No. I don't believe so. I think it was -- 19 it was really about understanding -- and I 20 think their terms were, what is -- was 21 first best practicable technology, which 22 they said, you know, in the Act, needed to 23 be put in, I think, as I recall, 1977. So < Page 83 Page 85 1 applied to their wastewater streams, and 2 what were their performance, and then 3 ultimately what would be what was termed 4 allowable discharges from those industries. 5 So the whole flux at that time was a 6 developmental regulatory process which 7 included a developing understanding of what 8 technologies could be available and applied 9 to certain industrial categories. 10 Q. But wasn't there technologies already 11 available at that time, and the government 12 was looking into actually utilizing or 13 making those techniques mandatory? 14 A. I think it was a combination of both 15 understanding, and what we were working on 16 is were there technologies that could be 17 applied, and then what were the standards. 18 So it was -- it was both aspects. It 19 was -- it was -- it was not simply taking, 20 you know, what was in practice. It had a 21 paramount of development and application 22 associated with it. 23 Q. But even in 1974, did you not find that the 1 the initial focus under the Clean Water Act 2 was the development of best practicable 3 technologies, which could have included 4 technologies that -- that were in 5 development or at certain levels of 6 application and trying to determine how to 7 practically apply those to wastewater 8 discharges. Actually there was a 9 requirement subsequent to that, as I 10 recall, in the Clean Water Act about the 11 application best available for technologies 12 which was some subsequent date of 13 implementation past 1977, which would have 14 actually then been a -- another level of 15 more restrictive technologies. 16 Q. Well, let me ask you, when was it first 17 utilized -- when was a device such as the 18 stormwater retention basin that was finally 19 utilized at the south landfill in Anniston, 20 when was that technology first developed? 21 A. I -- I don't recall. 22 Q. Well, I mean, I -- 23 A. I mean, I -- ; ; 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 22 (Pages 82 to 85) 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021994 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 86 Page 88 1 Q. Go ahead. 2 A. Go ahead with your question. 3 Q. Well, as I understand, retention basins is 4 a -- is a practice that's been utilized in 5 the industry for years, has it not? 6 A. No, not necessarily. I mean, I think at -- 7 at that time again, I recall, for example, 8 in the -- in the oil industry, I think they 9 were using what were referred to as 10 flotation sedimentation basins, and that 11 was for removing floating oils off of 12 wastewater discharges, because that 13 technology had developed within the -- 14 within the oil industry itself. And so 15 separation technology, 1 think, was known, 16 but its application to particular problems 17 and issues, I think, evolved consistent 18 with the regulatory structure. 19 Q. Well, I mean, retention ponds have been 20 utilized in mining operations for years? 21 A. I -- I -- I don't know that -- 22 Q. Well, I guess what I'm trying to ask -- 23 A. I don't know when that practice started. 1 because the government regulations came 2 about? 3 A. I think that was a strong component to that 4 evolution. 5 Q. You mention one other thing in your prior 6 testimony, and that's this -- let me find 7 it. You mention about the aspect of 8 dredging; that is, dredging is not - let 9 me make sure I say it correctly -- that 10 dredging is not a typical answer to the 11 sort of issues involving -- and that line 12 of questioning had to do with the 13 remediation of the PCBs in Snow Creek, 14 Choccolocco Creek and Lake Logan Martin. 15 And your -- you were asked that about doing 16 dredging operations to remove the PCBs from 17 the system, and you said that dredging is 18 not a typical answer to those sorts of 19 issues. Do you recall that line of 20 question and answers? 21 A. I do remember some discussion on that. 22 Q. Can you give me a little more idea about 23 what you -- when you say dredging is not a Page 87 Page 89 1 Q. I guess what I'm trying to ask is, the 2 technology, that is, such as retention 3 ponds or retention basins, that was in 4 existence long before 1974 -- the 5 technology? 6 A. That -- you know, that -- I don't know. 7 What I do know and understand is that the 8 whole subject of stormwater discharge, 9 which we're in essence talking about here 10 as well, was a -- it was not a regulated 11 discharge until even after what were 12 determined as process discharges came under 13 the structure. So -- this is where I say, 14 you know, there may have been some 15 technology; whether it existed and then to 16 when it was applied to a certain problem or 17 capable of being applied to a certain 18 problem, to me, was an evolutionary kind of 19 process from my experience from the sort of 20 mid-'60s on up through mid- to late '70s, 21 and -- you know, and continued on past 22 that. 23 Q. And was it actually -- did it evolve 1 typical answer to these sorts of issues, is 2 that still your belief? 3 A. It's still my belief that I believed it at 4 that time. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. I have not been -- I have not been, as I 7 say, since retirement really actively 8 engaged in following technologies and 9 remediation plans and that, so I really 10 can't comment on, you know, what may or may 11 not have changed since that point in time. 12 Q. All right. And obviously you -- I think 13 you probably anticipate my next question, 14 because we do know now that there is 15 dredging operations going on at the -- in 16 the Hudson River concerning PCBs? 17 MR. RODEN: Object to the form. 18 No foundation. 19 Q. Do you know that for a fact? 20 A. I do not. 21 Q. You've read it, haven't you? 22 A. Pardon? 23 Q. You have read about it? 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 23 (Pages 86 to 89) 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021995 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 90 Page 92 1 A. You know, I have not followed --1 do know 2 that there's activity and that GE is 3 continuing a discussion, but I do not know 4 the current state of actually remedial 5 projects in that area. 6 Q. Okay. Let me ask it this way, then: Is it 7 today still your belief that dredging is 8 not a typical answer to the issue of 9 removing PCBs from areas such as Snow 10 Creek, Choccolocco Creek, and/or Logan 11 Martin in the Anniston area? 12 A. And I think what I've indicated is I don't 13 have any knowledge to -- for me to alter 14 what I said in that deposition. 15 Q. So -- all right, so is it still your -- is 16 that still your belief, then, based on your 17 knowledge? 18 A. Yeah. Based on my knowledge, yes. 19 Q. Okay. Now, do you have any ongoing -- I 20 mean, I understand you're here testifying, 21 I assume -- do you have any ongoing work 22 going on with the Solutia, Monsanto, 23 Pharmacia Companies? 1 Q. Go ahead. 2 A. I have not testified in the -- in any case. 3 Q. Have you testified in the Abernathy case, ; 4 or do you know what case I'm talking about? 5 A. I'm -- I know I haven't testified. 6 Q. Okay. All right. So you don't remember an 7 Abernathy case or an Owens case? Those 8 aren't familiar to you? 9 A. I remember reference to those cases. I 10 don't remember the particulars. 11 Q. Have you worked on any of those cases? 12 A. No. They -- I remember them just in the 13 general context of matters that the law 14 department was working on, but I -- I don't 15 recall doing any specific work on them. * 16 Q. What have you done -- what have you done to 17 prepare yourself to testify today in this 18 case? s 19 A. I did go back and peruse the -- the two 20 depositions that we've referred to. I 21 think it's the Dyar and the Morris Hill. I 22 did meet with counsel to basically tell me, 23 you know, that this was a different case Page 91 Page 93 : 1 A. No, I do not, other than this -- I've been 2 asked to come back for this -- this 3 particular event. 4 Q. This deposition? 5 A. This deposition. 6 Q. Do you know whether or not you intend to 7 testify in this case in the October time 8 frame? 9 A. I do not. 10 Q. You haven't been asked one way or the 11 other? 12 A. No. I've been asked really to come in for 13 this deposition. 14 Q. Okay. Other than the Dyar deposition you 15 gave and the Morris Hill Church case that 16 you gave, have you actually testified in 17 any case involving PCBs on behalf of any of 18 these companies? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Those are the only two that you recall? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. You haven't testified in the Aber -- 23 A. Look -- 1 and the name of it and -- and the generals 2 on that. And I did review the document we 3 talked about earlier, which was the Kaley 4 affidavit. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. And that's all. 7 Q. Have you -- and you have -- did you review 8 any documents in relation to this today? 9 A. In perusing the two affidavits -- or the 10 two -- I'm sorry -- depositions, the 11 documents relative to -- or the exhibits, I 12 guess, for those documents. 13 Q. Okay. But other than those, you don't -- 14 none others? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Is there anything about those documents 17 that you looked at -- that you looked at 18 that would be contrary to what those 19 documents say; in other words, did you 20 refer to any other documents that would 21 contradict any of those documents? 22 MR. RODEN: Object to the form. 23 A. No, I did not. 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 24 (Pages 90 to 93) 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021996 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 94 1 Q. Did you do any kind of work independent of 2 the documents or transcripts concerning 3 the -- the amount of PCBs that were 4 referred in some of those documents that 5 were being discharged into the water 6 system? 7 A. No, I did not. 8 Q. Okay. All right. Mr. Pierle, I think 9 that's all I have. I appreciate it. 10 11 (The videoconference deposition of MICHAEL 12 PIERLE concluded at approximately 13 12:47 p.m. on May 21st, 2003.) 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 1 examination of said witness by counsel for 2 the parties set out herein; that the 3 reading and signing of said videoconference 4 deposition was NOT waived by witness and 5 counsel for the parties. 6 I further certify that I am 7 neither of kin nor of counsel to the 8 parties to said cause, nor in any manner 9 interested in the results thereof. 10 This 29th day of May, 2003 11 12 13 14 Nicole Paulk Reporter and Notary Public 15 State of Alabama at Large 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Page 96 : ; ; ; Page 95 2 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 3 **4=4=**** 4 STATE OF ALABAMA 5 COUNTY OF MONTGOMERY 6 I, Nicole Paulk, Shorthand 7 Reporter and Notary Public in and for the 8 State of Alabama at Large, do hereby 9 certify that on May 21st, 2003, pursuant to 10 notice and stipulation on behalf of the 11 Plaintiffs, I reported the videoconference 12 deposition of MICHAEL PIERLE, who was first 13 duly sworn by me to speak the truth, the 14 whole truth, and nothing but the truth, in 15 the matter of ANTONIA TOLBERT, et al., 16 Plaintiffs, versus Monsanto COMPANY, 17 PHARMACIA, INC., and SOLUTIA, INC., 18 Defendants, Civil Action Number 19 CV-01-N-1407-W, now pending in the United 20 States District Court for the Northern 21 District of Alabama, Western Division, that 22 the foregoing 94 typewritten pages contains 23 a true and accurate transcription of the J ******** WITNESS SIGNATURE PAGE 2 ******** 3 4 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA 5 WESTERN DIVISION 6 ANTONIA TOLBERT, etal.. Plaintiffs, 7 vs. CIVIL ACTION NO. 8 CV-01-N-1407-W 9 MONSANTO COMPANY PHARMACIA, INC., and 10 SOLUTIA, INC., Defendants. 11 I, Michael Pierle, hereby certify 12 that I have read the deposition enclosed herein and that it is a true and accurate 13 transcription of the deposition given by me in this cause with the corrections or 14 additions, if any, indicated by me on the attached errata sheet. 15 16 17 Signature of Witness 18 Subscribed and sworn to before me this day of 2003. 19 20 21 Notary Public 22 23 Page 97 . 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 25 (Pages 94 to 97) 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021997 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 1 A Aber 91:22 Abernathy 18:21 92:3 92:7 able 75:17,18 abreast 62:2 acceptability 51:21 acceptable 76:20 78:1 78:23 accomplish 13:7 accounting 44:18 45:15 53:4 68:9 69:6 70:1 72:1 73:1,5,20 accurate 18:3 95:23 97:12 accurately 79:4 acidic 80:14 acquainted 78:20 acquire 60:15 acquired 30:10 acquiring 7:4,18 8:6,7 acquisition 8:4 12:23 57:23 59:7,13,16 60:2,3,10,19 61:4 76:14 acquisitions 6:20 7:1 13:4 63:5 Act 84:22 85:1,10 action 1:5 15:13 45:17 75:17 95:18 97:7 actions 45:21 active 44:6,8,12,15,23 45:19 48:7 49:19,22 50:1,4,7,8 51:1,14 53:4,18 56:8,9 59:4 63:6 69:8 70:2,8 73-17 actively 59:22 89:7 activities 9:3,9,10 12:21 13:5 18:2 23:14 33:8,22 46:9 47:7 66:23 72:13 activity 8:11 10:11 22:7 24:3 45:3 58:22 84-8 90-2 addition 33:18 additional 12:21 16:17 57:10 60:23 61:4 additions 97:14 address 5:15,18 ADEM 59:23 61:11 62-6 10 75-7 16 affairs 26:7 82:8 affect 82-13 affidavit 17:23 18:5,7 93:4 affidavits 93:9 ag 30:8 65:15 age 4:20 agencies 13:15 61:18 agency 20:13 61:15 agreed 3:2,20 13:14 75:6 agreement 27:4,13 agreements 62:6,10,13 agricultural 28:23 29:6 29:9,12,14,15 30:5,8 30:14,23 31:3,15 35:1,5 37:22 38:12 38:18 39:4,6,9,15,18 40:14,23 41:15 42:8 46:22 66:1 67:16 agricultural-type 29:23 agriculture 29:8 ahead 9:18 17:2 33:4 56:4 86:1,2 92:1 al 1:4 95:15 97:6 Alabama 1:1,20,22 2:4 2:8 3:7 57:17 61:8 95:4,8,21 96:15 97:4 Allen 1:18 allocation 65:9 allow 60:16 allowable 83:4 allowed 27:5,10 alter 90:13 ambient 20:17 amount 8:10 21:19 24:5 84:8 94:3 analysis 74:15 and/or 10:1 32:14 38:5 90:10 Anniston 9:23 10:1,4,6 11:23 14:5 28:15,19 28:22 29:6,22 31:5 31:21 32:1 34:2 36:13 37:2,5 42:13 42:18,22 43:7 44:2 49:8 51:3 52:6 53:10 53:11 54:17 55:8,23 56:10 57:12 58:20 64:21 71:19,21 72:8 85:19 90:11 answer 17:15 22:20 36:19 88:10,18 89:1 90:8 answered 77:8,14 answers 76:4 88:20 anticipate 89:13 ANTONIA 1:4 95:15 97:6 anybody 9:22 appear 55:10 APPEARANCES 2:1 application 83:21 84:9 85:6,11 86:16 applied 82:19 83:1,8,17 87:16,17 apply 85:7 appointed 54:9 appreciate 94:9 approved 63:2 approximately 9:1 56:18 94:12 April 54:9,13 area 15:20 20:9,17,22 26:4 28:4,7 33:17 40:22 59:18,19 67:20 68:12 90:5,11 areas 15:9,15,19,21 16:16 61:2 74:5,6 90:9 arose 29:17 arrange 23:15 arrangement 27:10 ascertain 46:17 asked 14:3 88:15 91:2 91:10,12 asking 43:20,21 79:13 aspect 70:2 88:7 aspects 83:18 assessment 7:6 67:14 assessments 7:8,20 assign 70:5 assigned 29:11 31:13 55:20 68:20,22 71:8 71:11,14 assignment 65:10 assist 9:2 33:21 assistance 32:11 associated 68:23 69:6 83:22 Association 9:12 associations 9:4 assume 31:14 44:13 49:17 61:7,13 78:5 90:21 assurance 16:17 attach 70:20 attached 70:23 71:3,11 97:14 attachments 44:3 attempted 21:16 75:10 attempting 13:6,13 attend 11:20 attendance 10:7 attended 10:2 12:14 August 21:2 28:8 author 36:4 available 7:22 79:21 80:6 81:9 83:8,11 84:1 85:11 aware 62:2 a.m 1:23 B back 27:14,15 28:3,13 29:1 33:11 43:2 47:4 67:21 68:17 76:18 77:10 91:2 92:19 background 19:13 balance 43:10 68:15 based 39:1 75:23 90:16 90:18 basic 80:14 basically 7:5,20 10:9 11:20 15:12 23:14 26:20 58:8 64:6 67:12 68:16 69:3,17 92:22 basin 12:19 15:14,22 16:14 17:20 74:2,20 76:8 85:18 basins 13:2 86:3,10 87:3 basis 15:12 70:17 Bates 35:23 36:3 bear 5:5 Beasley 1:18 began 19:16,21 20:2 21:3,5 28:7 57:15 58:19 59:7 60:18 64:13 75:13 78:19,20 79:1 beginning 37:14 81:14 begun 12:20 behalf 1:17 9:21 91:17 95:10 belief 78:6 89:2,3 90:7 90:16 believe 11:2 13:20 14:6 14:15 15:8,11,18,19 18:7 19:2 25:6 26:7 28:7,11,20 29:13 31:17 35:5 37:17 39:23 40:15 45:16 51:18 57:17 58:2,7 60:23 61:11,16 62:1 62:4 74:3 77:3 84:18 believed 89:3 benefits 27:5,11 best 9:8 84:21 85:2,11 better 43:21 - BILL 2:21 , Birchfield 11:6 : Birmingham 2:8 bit 10:9 19:12,13 74:22 ' board 9:14 Bob 4:7 11:1 18:7,19 39:4 40:21 43:14 ; 71:17 76:12 books 68:10 Branchfield 11:7 break 43:16,18 Bridgeport 22:10 24:23 26:2,8 Brief 43:19 77:7 briefly 36:14,17 broader 47:12 59:18 68:2 broadly 79:15 > Brown 49:1 building 40:4,6,7,9 67:10 i burning 24:16 business 6:10 30:19,20 66:22,23 69:4,4,13 69:15,16,17 70:22,22 71:4,13 78:17 businesses 64:6,7 66:1 68:4,7,14,18,19 69:1 69:7,14,14,20 71:1 C Cahill 11:15 calculations 75:12 call 10:3 72:3 74:19,20 76:8 79:18 80:9,13 called 7:7 22:11,16 34:1181:15 capable 87:17 capping 16:15 Carolina 2:17 Cartee 2:6 case 14:8,13,20 15:18 16:21 18:21 77:20 91:7,15,17 92:2,3,4,7 92:7,18,23 cases 10:3,3 19:4 78:17 79:23 80:8,12 92:9 92:11 casting 7:17 categories 83:9 cause 96:8 97:13 ceased 66:10 certain 12:7 22:22 46:14,15 55:20 70:6 76:13 83:9 85:5 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021998 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 2 87:16,17 certainly 38:21 CERTIFICATE 95:2 certify 95:9 96:6 97:11 change 25:18 30:16 56:15 65:3 67:4 79:2 changed 25:22 69:9 89:11 changeover 42:12 changes 24:2 58:6,7 changing 23:12 checking 7:22 chemical 9:6,11,13 20:10 29:2,9,16,17 29:20 31:16 32:3,10 34:5,10,19 38:12,17 39:7,11,16 40:23 41:9,15,21 42:2 64:5 64:7 65:8,14,14 67:5 67:16 68:5,13 69:16 70:21 71:3,13,20 82:14 chemicals 32:17 39:5,9 40:14 76:22 Choccolocco 88:14 90:10 chose 64:9 chosen 8:13 Church 91:15 churches 59:16 Circle 2:7 city 10:1 Civil 1:5 3:18 95:18 97:7 Clair 7:17 clarification 18:20 71:18 Clarke's 19:2 Clean 85:1,10 clear 8:8 34:16 44:20 62:18 clearer 13:2 clearly 73:18 clients 6:21,23 closing 29:15 COD 20:10 code 40:4 collecting 15:23 collective 43:3 column 69:18 combination 83:14 come 26:23 27:14 28:3 42:20 49:4 50:23 57:9,15 82:9 91:2,12 comma 15:2,3 commencing 1:23 commensurate 58:13 60:22 comment 89:10 Commerce 1:19 26:6 26:14,19,22 27:9,19 82:7 commission 3:8 commitment 75:5 76:3 committee 9:16 10:5 13:6 common 12:5 76:20 77:20 commonly 81:17 communication 33:3 communications 53:18 companies 7:3,12 19:14 66:19 69:1 76:21 78:1 90:23 91:18 company 1:8 6:6 7:4 8:6 17:16 19:20 20:1 21:12 23:11 28:23 29:2,12,14,18,20 30:5,6 31:7,12 32:3 32:10 34:3,5,10,19 35:1,5 37:23 38:9,15 38:15,23 39:11 40:14 40:23 41:9,21 42:2 42:10 52:13 54:11 57:21 58:12,15 64:7 64:8 65:19 67:6,8,10 68:5,6 69:16 95:16 97:9 company's 43:1 69:23 company-wide 33:7,20 complete 15:7 completed 12:18 15:11 17:14 completely 10:10 completion 12:20 17:1 17:19 complex 81:12 complexity 33:14 compliance 56:21 component 65:8 88:3 concentrated 15:9 concern 50:11,13 concerned 12:14 27:17 46:10 52:18 53:1 72:10 73:10 concerning 9:22 14:4 14:17 25:22 45:20 51:12,16 52:19 53:5 56:10 78:10 79:10 89:16 94:2 concerns 14:5 21:11 concluded 64:10 94:12 conditions 78:23 conduct 21:14 conference 10:3 conjunction 12:23 13:11 18:15 60:13 connection 28:20 66:15 connections 26:17 28:14 66:14 consent 62:5,15 consideration 8:4 considered 29:1 76:9 considering 70:1 consisted 78:13 consistent 61:5 75:3 86:17 consolidated 67:6 construct 60:16 constructed 60:17 82:3 construction 13:1 16:13 consulting 6:6,8,9,11 6:18 8:19 contact 61:14 containment 60:14 contains 95:22 contaminant 21:12 contamination 8:2 contemplated 51:18 contemporaneous 37:18 content 52:14 context 52:15 60:17 63:14 92:13 continual 70:17 continue 9:2,9 27:11 60:20 continued 9:10,12 10:8 17:17 55:15 87:21 continuing 53:10 66:21 90:3 continuity 65:6,7 contract 27:7,8 contradict 93:21 contrary 93:18 control 79:21 80:7 82:11 controlling 79:19 conversation 50:4 51:10,12 64:18 conversations 11:5 51:20 58:1 61:23 75:15 copied 38:5 Corbett 38:6 corporate 38:13 56:17 58:6 65:11 correct 5:21,22 6:3 8:8 8:16,17 14:15 19:17 23:6 28:11 31:17 34:11,20 37:23 40:11 41:6 42:14 45:16 49:10,18 52:21 53:7 54:4 57:6,7 61:12 63:19,20 66:9,12 70:3,4 76:10 78:7 correction 54:19 corrections 97:13 correctly 88:9 cost 70:7 75:11 costs 73:19 counsel 3:3 92:22 96:1 96:5,7 counterpart 34:22 COUNTY 95:5 couple 43:15 59:15 course 19:1 69:8 Court 1:1 95:20 97:4 covering 55:5 co-signed 36:6 create 64:8 created 65:1 creation 51:6 Creek 44:10 45:4,11 47:22 51:10,13,17 52:2,5 88:13,14 90:10,10 Crow 1:18 current 5:15 43:3 44:12 45:19 62:14 68:18 69:13 82:22 90:4 currently 6:4 44:6 CV-01-N-1407-W 1:6 95:19 97:8 C2NJ 40:2 D Dan 41:14,14 data 75:14 date 35:23 37:18 85:12 dates 16:23 66:18 day 96:10 97:18 days 7:19 day's 8:11 dealing 10:6 12:6 dealt 58:20 decision 25:18 30:19 64:4 decree 62:15 deemed 9:8 Defendants 1:10 2:11 95:18 97:10 define 21:5 defined 46:7 defining 60:1 definition 70:14 degree 75:3 Delaware 22:11 84:3 delay 5:4 delineate 52:9 demand 20:11 Dennis 35:3 37:21 47:16 48:4 department 21:5,17 26:5,14,18,21 27:9 27:19 61:8 82:7 92:14 departments 39:15,17 deposition 1:14 3:4,15 3:22 14:4,9,17 16:21 17:11,16 19:3 76:18 90:14 91:4,5,13,14 94:11 95:12 96:4 97:12,13 depositions 19:15 92:20 93:10 describe 43:2 50:18 72:8 74:22 described 12:10 33:13 34:7 42:7 45:8 54:7 59:11 79:5 describes 18:1 44:4,16 describing 45:15 description 18:3 designates 40:5 designation 40:1,9 Destin 5:16 detailed 47:12 detected 16:8 determinant 80:2 determination 76:2 determinations 59:18 determine 7:23 46:17 48:2 52:1 74:11 75:18 85:6 determined 87:12 determining 43:8 74:16 76:9 develop 60:15 81:14 developed 59:17 60:4,6 60:7,9 61:3 82:23 85:20 86:13 developing 82:16 83:7 84:4 development 51:6 62:9 62:12 82:15 83:21 84:9 85:2,5 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000021999 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 3 developmental 83:6 device 85:17 die 7:16 different 34:1 49:12 81:12 92:23 differentiate 84:11 difficult 17:6 dioxide 20:15 direct 32:5 58:23 80:9 directly 55:3 69:4 director 34:12,17,23 35:7 36:11 41:9 50:22 53:13 54:7,12 54:15,19 56:6 discharge 20:23 76:22 79:10,22 80:7 81:2 82:11 87:8,11 discharged 94:5 discharges 20:5,7 78:16 79:19 80:9,10 80:14,22 82:16,22 83:4 85:8 86:12 87:12 discussed 13:14 51:10 discussing73:14,16 discussion 52:15 73:23 77:13 88:21 90:3 discussions 16:11 64:15 disposal 23:15 24:3,17 25:4,9 46:13,19 dispose 24:6,9 District 1:1,1 95:20,21 97:4,4 Division 1:2 95:21 97:5 divisions 39:14 document 35:11 36:20 44:4,16 51:7 93:2 documentation 25:21 documents 62:13 93:8 93:11,12,16,19,20,21 94:2,4 doing 6:18 7:5 9:3,7 19:23 20:8 60:23 88:15 92:15 dollar 27:3 Dr 19:1,2 drainage 74:6 drawn 15:21 dredging 88:8,8,10,16 88:17,23 89:15 90:7 Drive 5:15 driven 80:3 DSW119459 36:3 duly 4:21 95:13 dump 77:21 duties 56:14,15 Dyar 14:8,20 16:21 19:15 77:20 91:14 92:21 D.C 26:4,12 E E 2:13 earlier 14:3 33:14 35:10 37:6,20 93:3 early 24:22 62:5,10 effectively 33:16 either 3:17 19:1 69:20 81:2 employed 6:5 66:8 employee 66:7 employment 27:4,7,8 66:10 enclosed 97:12 ended 73:3,4 engaged 59:23 89:8 engineer 22:13 entire 18:1 38:15 42:2 entities 9:5 entity 7:18 8:7 environment 71:13 environmental 6:11,15 6:17 7:5,9,13,23 20:3 21:11 22:12 26:7 28:5,9 32:6 34:4,6,9 34:12,18,23 35:4,7 36:11 37:21 38:10,23 40:22 41:22,23 42:22 43:4 45:16 46:23 47:11 48:12,15,23 49:2,9,15,16 50:22 50:23 53:14,16,19 54:3,7,10,12,13,16,20 55:5 56:7,13,20 57:3 57:22 58:10 61:9 63:18 68:12 70:7,12 71:8 72:15 73:20 82:8 EPA 18:15 61:18,23 62:7,20 82:15 ERAP45:12 47:22 70:11 errata 97:14 escapes 51:2 ESQUIRE 2:5,13 essence 7:8 87:9 establish 70:13 75:2,20 establishment 75:22 estate 60:9,10 estimate 75:10 et 1:4 95:15 97:6 event 91:3 evidence 3:16 evolution 88:4 evolutionary 87:18 evolve 87:23 evolved 86:17 exact 16:23,23 exactly 17:7 19:23 30:12 35:9 41:1 42:16 53:23 73:2 examination 4:2,23 47:17 96:1 example 9:11 47:19 69:15 75:7 86:7 examples 7:11 executive 9:16 38:8,22 exercise 68:9 exhibits 93:11 exist 48:3,3 existed 33:11 69:22 78:15,23 79:14 80:4 87:15 existence 79:9 84:14,15 87:4 existing 8:1 exit 30:19 expand 60:21 expectations 79:7 expenditure 75:4,5 experience 87:19 experts 60:8 expiration 66:18 explain 49:23 extend 64:5 extended 74:3 extensive 15:1 17:12 extent 72:20,21 external 56:23 57:1 F facilities 46:13,19 77:23 80:4 facility 22:9 28:15,19 31:1,10,22 32:1 37:2 37:5 42:14,18 51:3 52:6,7 53:11 55:23 56:10 64:21 fact 82:10 84:1 89:19 fairly 68:1 71:23 80:16 familiar 11:8 65:13 92:8 family 28:6 far 6:22 12:13 20:22 27:17 45:20 73:8 February 36:2 37:9 43:22 56:8 federal 3:17 46:12 56:23 Fields 39:3,4,16 file 19:4 finally 85:18 finances 44:21 68:23 financial 44:18 53:2,3 68:9,10 69:5 70:1 75:19 find 46:1 51:1 82:9 83:23 88:6 finding 16:4 21:20 fine 35:21 36:16 43:17 56:5 finish 9:18 finished 9:19 36:21 first 4:21 28:17,20 37:4 84:21 85:16,20 95:12 five 36:10 float 81:18 floating 86:11 flood 74:2 76:7 floodplain 74:2,7,19 76:8 floor 23:2 40:7 Florida 5:16 flotation 86:10 flow 68:13 74:12,12 flowed 68:14 fluids 23:12 flux 83:5 focus 85:1 focused 20:4 47:21 52:9 followed 90:1 following 47:6 59:6 89:8 follows 4:22 foregoing 95:22 Foresman 11:2 55:11 58:2 form 3:12 4:10 71:16 76:11 89:17 93:22 formality 3:8,9 forward 53:13 57:15 found 21:19 foundation 89:18 four 7:2 55:4 fourth 45:7 frame 17:4,7 22:3 24:18 30:3,15 36:9 37:16 41:2 48:19 55:14 56:6 59:14 84:7 91:8 free-standing 64:8 65:19 front 35:12 full 5:11 10:12 function 38:11 57:22 58:6,11 72:15,16 functions 55:16 56:19 65:11 further 3:19 13:9 16:11 16:11 51:19 66:14 96:6 G GE 90:2 geared 6:16 general 79:5,13,18 81:6 92:13 generally 7:22 77:5 generals 93:1 gentleman's 11:13 gentlemen 38:5 give 7:11 30:3 31:22 37:3,15 47:23 48:9 48:1449:5 51:11 55:9 63:21 64:12,21 88:22 given 14:4 97:13 giving 14:17 Glenn 11:1 go 9:17 17:2 22:8 23:2 26:3 28:1 33:4 56:4 68:8,20 70:18 74:12 77:10,12 86:1,2 92:1 92:19 going 23:22 30:4 33:22 35:15 42:12 47:4,13 62:3 66:6 89:15 90:22 good 5:2,3,10 43:15 gotten 39:13 52:2 govern 25:4 government 26:14 83:11 88:1 governmental 81:6 governs 25:8 Green 2:15 6:2 Greensboro 2:17 Greenwich 6:2 groundwater 46:8,18 47:20 group 10:13,14,20,21 11:16,19 12:12 13:6 17:18 20:3 21:13 31:4 32:8,8,15 33:7 33:20 34:13 60:11 grouped 55:8 groups 57:2,2,3,3 group's 73:17 guess 7:12 10:17 14:13 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000022000 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 4 15:6 35:18 39:12 49:3,22 63:8,21 65:4 65:20 66:3 67:1 71:14 76:5 84:11 86:22 87:1 93:12 guidelines 43:1 Gulf 5:15 guy 40:22 guys 55:17 H Hal 38:6,8 hand 35:16 handle 35:20 handling 55:18 happened 22:5 64:4 65:18 happening 17:8 Harness 40:12,13 head 41:20 headquarters 67:8 health 38:10 54:4,10 56:14,20 57:22 63:19 68:12 hear 77:9,15 heat 23:9,17,20 held 57:4 help 32:11 37:3 43:12 48:6 60:8 helping 15:4 helps 75:1 76:5 hereto 3:20 Hill 91:15 92:21 historical 68:17 historically 69:16 history 30:12,23 52:19 63:22 69:23 host 81:9 Hudson 89:16 HUELSMAN 2:21 hundred 76:12 hydrology 15:2 I idea 31:22 47:23 64:12 88:22 ideas 51:11 identify 38:4 Illinois 19:22 impacts 46:18 implement 13:13 implementation 85:13 importance 20:12 inactive 44:14,15 incineration 24:12,14 24:16 25:10 include 13:21 49:16,17 71:10 included 20:16 38:10 56:19 70:21 71:12 72:12,23 73:19 74:5 75:11 76:14 79:6 82:17 83:7 85:3 includes 18:13,14 including 17:5 inclusion 40:19 Incorporated 6:8 increased 79:2 independent 94:1 INDEX 4:1 indicate 40:20 indicated 45:3 63:9 67:4 69:12 90:12 97:14 indication 44:9 individuals 55:7 56:18 industrial 78:17 81:12 83:9 industries 78:21 79:15 82:9,13,21 83:4 industry 7:7 9:6,13 26:23 57:2 79:9,12 79:13,18,21 81:1,5 82:14 84:16 86:5,8 86:14 influence 32:9 38:21 information 21:10 61:3 informational 61:22 62:1 infrequently 6:13 initial 52:23 53:8 85:1 Initially 6:18 input 62:7,14 install 81:14 installation 81:20 instance 74:19 80:15 Institute 9:14 instrumental 12:2 15:4 intend 91:6 intent 68:3 interest 9:6 interested 96:9 interface 34:15 internal 32:7 36:2 43:1 56:20 58:5 internally 60:7 interruption 77:7 inventory 44:5 investigation 11:21 13:9 61:6 investigations 59:8,21 investigatory 63:12 involved 10:17,20,21 knew 43:22 liquid 23:15 10:22 11:1,4,15 12:8 know 10:10,16,19 17:9 liquids 24:4,6 25:13 19:14 20:14 21:23 17:22 18:9,12,17 litigation 72:11,13 23:5,13 24:1,2 25:17 19:10 21:7 22:4,4 little 5:4 10:9 19:12,13 29:3 31:21 32:15 23:23 25:8,11 30:7 74:22 88:22 ; 37:5 42:13,18 60:12 30:10,11 35:2,3 lived 5:17 61:18 62:4,12 63:7 40:20 48:11,21 50:15 living 5:20 64:19 70:3 73:17 50:18 53:22 59:6 LLP 2:14 involvement 23:7 32:21 61:5 63:12 64:1 local 78:14 32:23 33:6 37:1,14 65:13,23 66:4 72:6 locale 67:1 53:9 63:15 73:9 73:2 76:3 77:2 79:15 located 19:20 31:4,10 involving 32:17 51:2 81:8,9 83:20 84:22 location 25:1,2 40:6 69:9 74:1 88:11 86:21,23 87:6,6,7,14 locations 12:7 33:21 91:17 87:21 89:10,14,19 67:5 issue 47:20 50:3 51:2 90:1,1,3 91:6 92:4,5 Logan 88:14 90:10 51:14 52:4,20 53:2 92:23 long 5:17 24:23 30:4 59:5,5,17 78:10 90:8 knowledge 47:13 75:4 54:1 87:4 issues 8:2 11:21 12:3,9 76:1 90:13,17,18 longer 10:9 i 12:13 44:18,19,23 known 43:23 86:15 look 43:10 61:1 68:9 45:19 47:17,19 48:3 Krummrich 19:21 70:19 82:2 91:23 48:7 49:20 50:1 53:4 56:9,9 57:10 59:12 looked 36:15 44:3 48:2 L 48:4 93:17,17 ' 59:13,15,21 63:6 Lake 88:14 looking 7:9,13,21 15:1 68:11,15 69:9 70:3,9 land 46:2 70:2 83:12 86:17 88:11,19 89:1 landfill 15:20 16:5,16 loss 44:1 item 44:7,11 45:8 47:22 85:19 losses 21:4,6,16,20 43:8 51:16,23 landfills 15:10 47:2 items 44:6 57:15 59:22 Lane 6:2 lot 17:15 40:21 56:21 68:20 large 1:22 3:7 71:23 Louis 2:12,20 5:23 28:4 < 84:8 95:8 96:15 28:6 31:8 39:1,22 .1 larger 60:21 41:11,12,17 42:3 Jack 11:11 late 21:1 22:6 28:21 low 16:7 January 8:12,15 9:20 17:6 29:4 31:20 32:14 33:5 34:1 37:8 79:1,4 M Jerry 49:1 81:8 87:20 mail 40:4 Jersey 22:11 25:1 26:9 law 1:17 92:13 maintaining 56:22 57:1 40:9 lawful 4:20 making 29:23 49:21 job 22:1 27:1 laws 32:6 56:23 79:2 83:13 jobs 7:16 82:1 lead 40:22 man 49:9 Johnny 18:22 leaning 51:19 manage 33:17 joint 42:21 leaving 22:5 management 12:8 Jones 48:22 led 59:10 21:12 25:13 29:11,19 Joslin 55:16 left 17:5,16 18:16,17,18 31:2,3,4,7 33:18 39:5 June 14:14 21:2 22:4,8 26:2,15 42:1 43:3 46:23 48:17 54:13,16 61:9 66:16 K Leo 55:13 manager 11:3,9 28:4,9 Kaley 11:1 18:8 93:3 level47:11 53:17 66:16 31:9,11,14,19 33:12 keeping 62:2 78:15 85:14 35:4 37:22 47:11 Kelly 2:13 4:7 18:19 levels 16:8 20:16,17 48:23 49:9 53:16 35:10,15 43:14 58:11 85:5 managers 55:5 kept 47:1 liabilities 7:10 managing 30:6 56:17 Kevin 11:15 limestone 80:15,17 mandatory 83:13 Key 44:10 limited 80:16 84:12 kin 96:7 line 88:11,19 manner 24:8 96:8 kind 32:16 37:16 80:17 lines 18:3 manufacture 20:19 81:4 82:4 87:18 94:1 line-by-line 72:3 22:14 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000022001 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 5 manufactured 30:15 Manufacturer's 9:11 manufacturing 22:16 41:10,16 77:22 81:13 March 5:19 mark 35:17 Martin 88:14 90:11 material 23:18,22 25:19 materials 16:1 22:21 23:13,16 24:11 25:14 46:16 77:21,21 81:18 matter 46:4 51:5 95:15 matters 20:12 38:23 43:4 49:15,16 50:5 53:6,20 92:13 Matteucci 41:5,8 mean 7:1 9:4 15:17 26:22 44:13 49:22 50:1,7,11 51:13 55:21 61:8,10 85:22 85:23 86:6,19 90:20 means 79:20 82:10 measures 21:6 mechanism 72:2 73:5 medical 27:5 meet 92:22 meeting 32:5,12 52:23 meetings 10:7 12:15 64:15 member9:15,15 10:12 21:14 39:4 40:13 41:15 members 11:17 12:11 memo 36:2,4,5 38:6 40:2,15,17 42:20 43:10 53:1 56:8 memory 40:18 mention 14:20,23 88:5 88:7 mentioned 8:18 15:13 35:10 37:19 58:21 61:7 62:5 merged 65:21 method 24:8 methodology 69:2 80:1 80:20 methods 79:20 80:6 81:1 82:10 Methvin 1:18 Michael 1:15 2:13 3:5 4-20 5:13 94-11 95:12 97:11 Mickelson 41:13,14 mid 32:14 33:13 37:7 57:14 81:8 82:4 87:20,20 mid-1974 25:2 migration 16:18 Mike 4:10,12,17 11:2 19:6 35:13,16 55:11 58:2 Miles 1:19 mind 39:13 49:4 52:1 mine 35:7 mining 86:20 minute 43:15 minutes 36:10 Missouri 2:12,20 5:21 7:4,17 mixed 22:21 Miyausky 11:11 monies 52:10 monitored 46:15 monitoring 20:5,15,22 21:8,15 45:21 46:2,8 46:12 75:14 Monsanto 1:8 9:22 14:8 19:16 26:10,15 26:17 27:4,14 28:3 28:13,23 29:5 32:10 38:15,22 39:10,11 41:21 42:10,23 49:7 51:3 52:7 54:11,17 57:5,11 63:22 64:1,7 64:23 65:8,16,18,19 65:23 66:2,11,14,22 66:23 67:7,10 68:5,6 68:11,16,22 69:22 71:1 90:22 95:16 97:9 Monsanto's 27:17 57:1 Montgomery 1:20 2:4 95:5 months 17:17 37:15 64:16 Moore 2:14 morning 5:2,3 Morris 91:15 92:21 move 67:9 moved 26:4 29:19 59:12 81:4 moving 32:2 municipal 78:16 municipalities 78:22 Myers/Hills 14:13 N name 4:13 5:11 6:7,23 11:8,13 40:1 49:12 64:9 93:1 names 48:10,14 49:4 55:9 nature 6:9 8:22 22:18 27:6 near 12:19 61:2 necessarily 86:6 need 3:13 14:22 43:18 49:23 52:11 60:14 needed 33:16 57:21 60:16 65:12 70:13 74:17 84:22 negotiated 62:20 neither 96:7 neutralization 80:13 80:19 neutralize 80:22 81:3 never 66:13,13 new 22:10 23:22 24:23 26:8 40:8 60:9 Newport 26:8 newspaper 66:6 Nicole 1:20 3:5 95:6 96:14 NJ 40:8 nonexistent 78:18 non-PCB 23:12 25:19 Norris 18:23 North 2:15,17 Northern 1:1 95:20 97:4 Notary 1:21 3:6 95:7 96:14 97:21 note 18:22 noted 70:11 notes 40:20 notice 1:16 95:10 number 7:15 14:22 35:23 36:3 44:22 45:8 53:15 55:20 71:23 95:18 O Object 71:16 76:11 89:17 93:22 objections 3:11,12 4:9 obviously 10:12 17:16 17:19 44:13 67:9 89:12 occurred 64:22 65:1 October 14:9 16:22 17:10,21 91:7 offered 3:15 28:2 offerings 61:4 Office 26:6 officer 82:8 Offices 1:18 off-site 12:21 13:5,22 76:14 Off-the-Record 77:13 oil 86:8,14 oils 86:11 okay 4:15 5:9,11,20 6:4 8:15 11:14 14:2 18:9 23:1 27:17 31:20 35:10,17 36:8 37:19 38:16,20 39:19 40:8 40:10,17 41:13 42:9 44:12 45:10,18 47:9 48:20 49:5,21 50:17 50:19 51:11,22 54:22 55:1,12 56:2 59:3 61:17 62:17 64:3 65:22 76:15 89:5 90:6,19 91:14 92:6 93:5,13 94:8 once 75:13,17 ongoing 10:4 46:5 50:6 53:12 63:12 70:10 90:19,21 open 51:16 open-ended 27:15 operating 31:7,12 34:3 52:13 operation 7:17 22:17 44:20 50:22,23 82:4 operations 28:23 29:2 29:18 30:9 31:9 34:12,18,23 35:8 36:12 53:14 54:8,20 56:7 67:16 78:21 86:20 88:16 89:15 opinion 78:5 opposed 44:13 79:11 81:3 options 66:17,20,21 order 13:12 33:16 60:15 orders 62:6 organization 49:6 61:21 organizational 58:5 origin 64:17 outside 9:3 27:18 43:9 60:8 76:7 Owens 92:7 owner 8:2 oxygen 20:10 P page 4:2 14:22 45:7,8 97:1 pages 95:22 paid 27:8 parameters 20:11 paramount 83:21 parathion 30:19 ; Pardon 89:22 Parrity 55:13 part 12:22 16:6 21:23 22:1 28:22 65:12 67:7 74:5,15 82:12 participation 73:18 particular 6:16 21:22 21:23 33:17 48:10 51:23 70:14 72:6 86:16 91:3 particulars 92:10 parties 3:3,20 96:2,5,8 : parts 59:19 party 3:17 * part-per-billion 16:8 Paulk 1:20 3:6 95:6 * 96:14 PCB 14:5 21:5 23:18 24:3,5 25:12,19 44:11 45:3,11 47:19 47:20,21 48:2 51:16 52:20 53:10,10 69:15 70:8 PCBs 13:10 16:4,8,18 20:19,22 21:10 23:6 25:4 30:1 43:9 44:1,8 45:20 46:4 47:2,15 49:18 51:2 52:2,5 53:5 56:10 58:20 59:10,19 61:1 69:9 70:3 71:10 88:13,16 89:16 90:9 91:17 94:3 PCB-active 57:10 pending 95:19 people 11:4 12:10 26:23 30:9 33:19,21 34:13 40:5,19 47:5,7 48:5,10,15 53:15 55:14 58:10 60:7,11 61:21 62:10 65:10,10 67:5 people's 66:19 percent 76:13 performance 83:2 period 10:2 11:10 27:2 27:12 28:8 29:13 30:18 32:13 42:11 47:18 48:1 50:20 55:2 58:4,8 67:6,21 74:1 76:21 77:4 78:11 81:22,23 permit 50:6 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000022002 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 6 person 35:6 48:12 49:2 49:13 53:21,23 personally 61:14 63:7 personnel 64:23 65:3 peruse 92:19 perusing 93:9 Pfizer 66:4 Pharmacia 1:8 65:21 66:2,3 90:23 95:17 97:9 phase 7:7 75:20 phenols 20:9 physically 19:19 67:3 pieces 7:2 Pierle 1:15 3:5 4:14,17 4:20 5:2,12,13,14 6:8 19:12 24:19 32:13 36:4 43:20 76:18 77:14 94:8,12 95:12 97:11 pits 80:17 place 24:15 27:6 67:3 75:2 Plaintiffs 1:4,17 2:3 95:11,16 97:6 plan 13:17,18 14:1 51:21 planned 44:10 plans 45:17 89:9 plant 9:23 11:3,4,9 19:21 20:5,17,18,19 21:2 22:10,12,15 23:4,8 28:22 29:5,7 29:18,22 30:10,13 31:8,9,10,11,14,18 32:4,9,12 33:7 34:15 36:13 43:9 44:1,6 45:1 46:14 47:5,7 48:5,8 49:8 50:6,9 52:12 53:19 54:17 55:8,18 57:11,12 59:20 61:2 65:6 71:19,21 81:10 82:2 84:6 plants 32:4 55:6,20 71:20 78:20 plasticizer 22:16 plastics 22:18,22 players 10:23 please 36:22 77:11,18 pliable 22:23 point 18:19 25:5 36:23 43:6 45:2 50:12 52:18 53:13 59:3 61:20 63:15 71:17 72:7 75:16 89:11 points 70:14 policies 56:21.22 policy 57:20 ponds 86:19 87:3 Portis 1:19 position 26:20,21 28:3 28:12 38:13,1442:6 54:8 57:4 positions 27:1 possibility 59:9 possible 7:9 potential 8:1 15:3 16:18 59:22 61:1 75:4 potentially 82:19 Potter 41:19,20 42:7 power 20:16 57:18 practicable 84:21 85:2 practically 85:7 practice 32:18 76:20 77:20 78:1 79:1,5 81:5 83:20 86:4,23 practices 79:3 precipitate 33:6 predominantly 7:3 29:8 prepare 92:17 prepared 18:9 presence 10:4 13:9 57:1 59:9 PRESENT 2:19 presently 6:4 president 54:3,10 56:13 63:18 pretty 78:22 prevent 16:17 81:2 previously 58:21 69:21 primarily 8:13 13:8 20:4,8 22:15 24:2 44:17 56:16 62:1,12 65:11 69:13 75:3 78:13 80:11 primary 34:14 47:5 49:14 81:15,16 prime 80:2 principally 48:5 52:9 prior 5:20 9:7 10:11 16:9 22:5 29:21 30:23 52:19 69:22 88:5 private 72:18 73:15 probably 7:19 10:19 40:16 89:13 problem 87:16,18 problems 86:16 procedural 3:10 Procedure 3:18 proceed 51:22 proceeding 75:16 process 8:4 24:1 29:14 64:9,13 70:11,12 75:1 81:19 82:16,20 83:6 84:4 87:12,19 producing 29:23 production 29:16 30:13,22 products 29:9 30:1,14 31:1 program 20:15 21:3 46:16 60:3,6,19,20 70:10 75:11 progress 11:22 12:3 project 12:17 13:1 21:16 60:13 72:4 73:9,17 75:23 projects 6:19 12:19 17:1 18:4 52:10,11 58:15 63:10,14 70:13 70:15,20 71:3,11 72:1,10,10,17 81:15 90:5 prompted 21:7 30:21 32:14 proper 9:23 properties 7:13 60:15 72:19 73:15 74:1,13 74:18 76:7 property 6:20 7:1,7,21 7:22 8:2 12:23 13:4 15:10 57:16,23 59:7 59:13,16 60:2,18 63:4 76:13 proposed 62:15 63:2 prospective 70:7 protection 28:5,10 provide 16:16 32:11 provided 3:17 15:12 18:22 proximate 59:19 74:13 public 1:21 3:6 21:10 95:7 96:14 97:21 purpose 3:16 11:18 15:23 42:20 purposes 29:12 pursuant 1:16 95:9 purview 72:14 put21:13 69:18 75:18 77:21 84:23 P-H-E-N-O-L-S 20:9 P-I-E-R-L-E 4:14 P.C 1:19 p.m94:13 O quantification 75:19 quantify 21:18 24:5 question 29:16 30:21 33:5 36:19,22 47:14 71:5 76:4,17 77:8,15 77:17 86:2 88:20 89:13 questioning 88:12 questions 3:11,12 12:6 17:15 quite 32:19 33:23 49:2 R R 2:5 reacquisition 57:17 read 4:11 36:17 44:16 47:15 89:21,23 97:12 reading 36:21 96:3 real 60:9,10 65:9 really 18:10 24:1 34:1 48:11 52:14 64:14 65:2,9 68:10,23 82:20 84:19 89:7,9 91:12 reason 17:2,9 reasons 25:22 recall 10:23 11:12,12 12:4,16,20 13:8,10 13:13,16,23 14:16 16:23 17:4,6 18:13 21:21 22:21 23:7,10 23:14,23 24:7,11,15 24:20 25:11,14 27:3 30:7,11,22 35:2,8 37:17 46:11 48:11 51:4,15,22 53:12,22 53:22 55:4,6 56:8 57:16 59:8,14,21 60:8,12,18,22 61:20 62:9 64:14,17 71:2 71:22 72:6,20 73:1,5 73:14,16,18,21,23 78:12 79:17 80:2 81:7 84:23 85:10,21 86:7 88:19 91:20 92:15 recess 43:19 recognized 33:18 recollect 44:5 47:16 recollection 11:17 14:10 16:6 22:3 29:7 30:17 46:3 59:2 recommending 56:19 record 4:16 77:11 records 7:23 RECRA 46:2,8,11 RECRA-permitted 46:19 , Reddington 35:4 36:7 37:20,21 46:21 47:10 Reddington's 40:16 Reding 42:5,6 reduce 21:6,16 ? refer 14:22 35:22 93:20 reference 37:1,4 39:8 40:3,4 45:23 77:3 92:9 referencing 45:5,6 77:20 referred 38:5 80:11 86:9 92:20 94:4 referring 63:1,3 77:2 i 77:19 78:19 refers 62:22 reflect 45:19 reflecting 47:4 55:13 regulated 87:10 regulation 25:8 ; regulations 25:3,16 32:7 33:15 56:23 78:10,14 79:3,11 88:1 i regulatory 20:13,13 32:11,16 47:6 50:5 57:3 78:12 79:6 80:3 83:6 86:18 relation 93:8 relationship 33:11 relative 44:8 68:20 93:11 relatively 6:13 8:9 remained 68:22 71:1 remedial 15:13 45:17 45:20 70:8 75:17 90:4 remediation 11:21 12:3 12:6,13 45:17 46:6 51:13 58:14,14 70:13 72:15,18,22 73:3,7 73:11,14 74:18 88:13 89:9 remember 21:941:1 48:9 49:1 55:1 58:1 64:15 77:16 78:2 79:17 88:21 92:6,9 92:10,12 removal 44:11 45:3,11 47:21 51:21 81:17 removals 51:17 remove 88:16 removed 23:16 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www.reaganreporters.com 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000022003 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 7 removing 86:11 90:9 repeat 36:21 replaced 11:11 report 15:4 reported 31:11 35:6 95:11 reporter 1:21 3:6 43:16 95:7 96:14 REPORTER'S 95:2 reports 16:11 representative 9:13 representing 3:3 required 72:2 requirement 85:9 requirements 3:10 32:6 32:7,12 33:15 43:2 70:8 79:7 81:7 requiring 50:8 reserve 70:6 72:5,8,9 73:11,12,20 75:12,20 75:21 reserved 3:14 reserves 69:6 70:15,19 70:20,23 71:2,8,10 72:3,23 73:3,7,8 74:17,23 75:2,22 76:10 reserving 4:9 reside 5:14 residual 66:15 resource 33:15 respect 3:9 34:2 37:1 42:23 43:7 44:1 58:19 59:15 64:20,22 response 33:10 62:22 responsibilities 15:5 20:4 28:18 32:5 38:9 42:1 49:15 58:16 66:22 responsibility 42:17 58:13,23 73:13 responsible 38:17 56:16 responsive 76:16 rest 65:15 66:3 68:6 restate 43:21 restrictive 85:15 result 16:3 70:18 resulted 16:12 resulting 46:18 results 96:9 retained 9:1 54:8 retention 12:19 13:2 15:14,22 17:20 85:18 86:3,19 87:2,3 retired 8:15 63:8,11 retirement 8:12.14,20 9:7,17,20 10:12 63:16 67:12 89:7 returned 28:6 review 44:17 93:2,7 reviewing 36:20 Rhodes 2:7 Richard 55:16 right 9:17 14:7,19 26:2 27:21 28:9 29:10 31:20 33:9 34:21 37:13,19 39:3,21 40:12 41:4,14,18 45:18 47:3,23 52:22 52:22 53:8 55:19 56:12 57:4,19 59:3 61:17 62:21 63:4,4 64:3,20 65:17 67:19 74:7,9 75:9 82:4,5 89:12 90:15 92:6 94:8 right-hand 45:12 rise 16:10 River 22:11 84:3 89:16 rivers 77:22 Robert 2:5 48:22 Roden 2:5,6 4:3 5:1 19:5,8,11 35:13,17 35:21,22 43:17 71:16 71:21 76:11 77:12 89:17 93:22 role 31:23 32:2 53:10 rotating 26:21 rules 3:18 33:14 ruling 3:14 running 16:4 runoff 12:18 15:9,15 16:10 58:22 59:5,10 Ruskin 11:1 R.L 39:3 S safety 38:11 54:3,11 56:13,20 57:22 63:19 68:12 Saint 7:17 samples 16:10 sampling 59:18 74:4 75:7 Sauget 19:22 saying 22:2 29:5 37:7 39:6 49:6 50:20 52:17 53:1 79:8 80:5 80:18 scanning 18:13 scheme 75:8 school 20:2 scope 13:12 68:2 seamless 65:5 sector 71:9 sedimentation 81:16 86:10 sediments 15:23 see 25:21 36:6 44:7 67:22 74:23 75:1 seeing 40:15 senior 38:8,22 sense 49:5 64:22 65:2 sent 24:11,13,14 separate 16:1 39:14 64:6 68:3 69:3 70:19 separated 66:20 69:5 69:12 separation 66:19 68:3 69:7 70:18 86:15 September 64:11 sequence 18:1 25:15 63:10 sequential 75:23 series 17:3 59:7,21 68:4 sessions 11:2 set 46:16 57:15 59:11 96:2 setting 56:19 sheet 97:14 Shelby 2:6 Shore 5:15 Shorthand 1:21 3:6 95:6 showing 75:15 shut 69:21 side 30:5,6 31:15,16 34:9,19 35:1 37:22 39:20 41:16 45:12 46:22 sign 4:11 signature 3:21 97:1,17 signed 38:2 signing 96:3 sign-off 57:23 similar 34:4 35:6 67:13 67:22 68:1 similarities 67:23 simple 22:20 50:2 simplifying 22:19 simply 83:19 sink 81:18 sir 57:13,13 79:16 site 7:20,20 11:23 16:19 20:6,18 21:2 21:14 22:13 23:8 30:13,22 31:8 32:4 42:23 44:7,19 45:2 46:3,14 47:8,13 48:5 48:8,12,14,23 49:2,7 49:12,14 50:9 52:12 58:20 59:20 61:2 63:13 65:6 67:8 81:20 84:2,6 sites 31:18 32:9 34:15 53:19 55:18 81:13 site-related 33:19 situation 32:16 42:22 43:7 76:1 slash 39:6 slender 17:7 slight 54:19 small 7:3,15,16 8:10 49:11 Smith 2:14 Snow 44:10 45:4,11 47:21 51:9,9,13,17 52:2,5 88:13 90:9 soils 13:21 25:14 sold 69:20 solid 25:13 Solutia 1:9 6:19 8:16 8:19 9:5,21 10:4 15:6 57:5,8 63:19,23 64:1 64:9 65:1 66:8 67:10 68:4,14,21 69:18 70:22 71:15 90:22 95:17 97:10 Solutia's9:12,14 10:5 somebody 21:13 somewhat 24:21 63:21 sorry 17:2 32:21 33:1,4 39:8 54:22 56:4 77:12 93:10 sort 10:5 11:16 12:18 21:15 23:3 27:3 58:12 59:14 68:8 72:14 74:11 75:23 81:11 82:2 87:19 88:11 sorts 88:18 89:1 sources 15:3,3 south 15:20 16:5,15 85:19 speak5:8 95:13 specific 6:22 47:14 92:15 specifically 12:16 35:3 50:1 72:21 specifics 13:16 14:1 25:11 71:22 73:6 specify 15:16 spent 40:21 spin-off 65:1 split 65:12 St 2:12,20 5:23 28:4,6 31:8 39:1.22 41:11 41:12,17 42:3 stack 20:16 ; staff 32:8,15 33:7 56:17 58:6,10 65:11 stage 81:13 stamp 36:3 stand 45:13 standard 32:18 79:14 standards 25:12 79:9 79:12,13,19 81:5 : 82:17 83:17 84:12,13 standpoint 44:8 started 12:4 16:6 30:9 36:12 81:10 82:1,3,5 86:23 starting 12:2 state 1:22 3:7 7:3 13:11 13:15,15 20:13 43:4 51:16,20 61:1,7,21 ' 78:14 90:4 95:4,8 96:15 States 1:1 77:5 95:20 97:4 status 43:23 74:13 statute 46:12 stay 8:13 27:6 54:1 67:2 68:16 stayed 25:2 27:21 67:2 67:11 stipulated 3:2,19 stipulation 1:16 95:10 stipulations 3:1 4:8 stock 66:17 storm 59:5 stormwater 12:18 13:1 15:9,14,15,19,22 16:9,14 17:20 58:22 59:10,11 60:14 85:18 87:8 streams 77:22 83:1 Street 1:19 2:15 strong 50:13,15 88:3 structure 31:12 34:4,6 34:9 47:5 49:6 78:13 80:4 86:18 87:13 studies 16:12 59:8 study 15:1,7 16:3 17:12 21:15 63:12 studying 59:23 subject 46:4 50:5 51:5 58:3 87:8 submitted 17:23 18:6 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www .reaganreporters.com 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000022004 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 Page 8 18:10 Subscribed 97:18 subsequent 58:4 75:13 85:9,12 subsequently 65:23 79:2 suggest 4:7 suggests 41:2 Suite 2:16 sulfur 20:15 supervisor 40:16 58:9 sure 19:5,10 35:19 43:11,13 49:21 71:5 74:7 88:9 swear 4:17 sworn 4:21 95:13 97:18 synonymous 50:11 system 15:2 76:22 88:17 94:6 systems 74:6 S-A-U-G-E-T 19:22 T take 8:3 27:15 36:18 66:13 taken 1:16 3:5 10:11 17:11 53:18 talked 63:5 67:17 93:3 talking 17:13 24:19 36:10 37:10 50:21 53:3 81:22 87:9 92:4 team 10:10 12:8,11 31:2,3,4,10 39:5 techniques 83:13 technologies 81:9 82:18,23 83:8,10,16 84:1,10,14 85:3,4,11 85:15 89:8 technology 81:21 84:5 84:21 85:20 86:13,15 87:2,5,15 tell 8:22 10:14 14:21 15:6 24:8 25:17 43:6 67:19 92:22 tenure 61:19 term 27:7 31:645:14 50:3 65:4 74:21 80:21 termed 20:10 64:5 81:17 83:3 terminology 74:8 terms 79:12 80:11 84:20 testified 4:21 14:19 91:16,22 92:2,3,5 testify 91:7 92:17 testifying 90:20 testimony 19:16 46:21 77:19 78:3,6 88:6 testing 13:21 Thank 56:5 thereof 96:9 the'80s 48:22 thing 23:3 33:23 80:17 88:5 things 27:5 45:1 70:4 think 5:4 8:11 10:8 14:9 16:13 17:22 18:2,15 22:20 33:5 37:6 45:7 46:2 47:14 48:4 50:19 54:20 55:17 61:3,11,22 63:9,11 64:10,14 68:1 76:16,20 77:3 79:4 80:1,8 81:19 82:5 83:14 84:2,18 84:20,23 86:6,8,15 86:17 88:3 89:12 90:12 92:21 94:8 thinking 39:13 three 7:2,19 55:17,22 tiling 23:3 time 3:13,14 10:2 11:10 12:14 13:8 14:19 15:8 16:9 17:4,5,7,8 17:11 18:3 20:14 21:9 22:3 23:11 24:18 25:5,12 27:2 27:11 28:8,17 29:3 29:13,21 30:3,15,18 32:13,19 33:12,23 35:2 36:9,18 37:4,10 37:16 38:8 40:15,21 41:2,20 42:11 43:5,6 43:15,22 45:2 46:20 47:17,21 48:1,1,6,12 48:16,17,18 49:3 52:8,18 53:14 54:6 55:14 56:6,16 57:8 57:10,20 58:3,4,7,8 58:18,18 59:4,14 61:20 63:2,7 64:4 65:9,16,20 66:18,21 67:7 68:7 69:7,8 72:1 72:7 74:1 76:21 77:4 78:11 79:3 80:3,11 81:23 83:5,11 84:7 86:7 89:4,11 91:7 times 14:5 timing 25:15 title 28:12 35:6 54:23 today 10:16,20 90:7 92:17 93:8 TOLBERT 1:4 95:15 97:6 topic 73:22 Toxicology 9:14 trade 9:4 transcription 95:23 97:13 transcripts 94:2 transfer 23:9,17,20 44:20 transference 30:21 transferred 22:10 23:21 29:1 34:3 52:12 transition 50:20 67:13 67:15 transmission 5:5,7 treatment 78:15 80:1 80:12 81:16 82:18 84:6 trouble 33:2 true 95:23 97:12 truth 95:13,14,14 try 10:23 trying 24:6 36:23 39:12 51:8 52:9 67:20,21 74:11 76:6 84:11 85:6 86:22 87:1 twice 14:6 two 7:19 9:1 11:4 14:16 17:17 20:11 23:10 39:14 49:3 66:19 69:1 91:20 92:19 93:9,10 type 6:15,17 7:12 25:3 25:21 27:18 67:13 types 12:9 typewritten 95:22 typical 32:3 69:19 88:10,18 89:1 90:8 typically 7:6 12:7,10 26:22 31:6,18 75:6 U ultimately 83:3 84:13 umbrella 29:19 uncontrolled 80:10 undergoing 11:22 understand 14:10 15:5 17:12,18 19:15 21:3 29:4,22 46:21 48:6 49:21 50:19 52:16,23 54:2 62:19 63:17 71:5,6,9 75:14 86:3 87:7 90:20 understanding 42:21 56:22 66:5 68:18 73:13 76:23 82:18,21 83:7,15 84:19 understood 19:11 44:21 52:11 undertake 21:6 undertaken 22:7 underway 11:22 12:17 15:1 17:13 46:3 unfold 58:19 unit 39:9,11 41:21 42:10 65:14,15,15 United 1:1 77:5 95:19 97:4 units 23:9,17,21 24:7 universal 79:18 use 50:10,10 74:21 useful 33:20 usual 4:8 utilize 82:10 utilized 84:14,16 85:17 85:19 86:4,20 utilizing 83:12 V various 18:4 46:1 77:22 versa 5:9 versus 14:8 44:15 95:16 vice 5:9 54:2,10 56:12 63:18 videoconference 1:14 3:4,15,22 94:11 95:11 96:3 VIDEOGRAPHER 2:21 4:12,15 77:10 visit 7:20 volumes 24:7 vs 1:5 97:7 W wait 5:7 waived 3:10,23 96:4 walking 7:21 want 8:8 35:18 36:1 74:21 77:16 wanted 35:11 Washington 26:4,12 wasn't 24:1 83:10 waste 25:12 46:12 wastewater 78:16 79:10,22 80:7,22 81:2 82:11 83:1 84:6 85:7 86:12 water 16:2 20:8 74:20 76:8,22 85:1,10 94:5 way 9:9 17:10 23:5 25:9,18 44:22 84:17 90:6 91:10 wells 45:21 46:14,15 went 26:12 28:13 58:5 64:16 65:14,15 68:17 68:19 82:6 weren't 81:7 84:15 Western 1:2 95:21 97:5 we'll 5:5 we're 4:15 33:2 37:10 : 87:9 we've 33:13 54:6 59:11 81:4 92:20 whichever 74:20 witness 3:21,22 4:14,16 4:18 19:7 36:20 96:1 96:4 97:1,17 wondering 37:3,9 * word 50:10,11,14,16 words 93:19 work 6:11,15,18 7:2,6 7:8,18,19 8:10,19 9:2 9:21 12:17 13:12,16 13:18 14:115:8,11 16:15 17:3,8,17,19 18:14 19:21 20:2,8 20:21 21:13,16,23 26:23 27:18 44:9 46:5 50:8 51:18 53:12 55:15 58:19 60:23 61:6 63:13 74:4,10 75:21,22 78:19 82:1,12 90:21 92:15 94:1 worked 8:5 21:22 26:5 26:18 55:2 81:10 82:6 84:3 92:11 working 8:5 10:13,14 10:20,21 11:18 12:12 13:6 17:18 19:16 20:2 26:9,13 28:7 34:14 36:12 53:15 57:2 62:11 72:4 81:10 82:5,14 83:15 92:14 world 67:8 wouldn't 64:18 writing 13:19 written 13:18 wrong 47:3 W.G 19:21 Y 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www .reaganreporters.com 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000022005 MICHAEL PIERLE - 5/21/2003 yeah 19:7 49:11 59:6 62:23 74:22 90:18 year 8:10 10:8 26:5 27:2,3,12,16 28:2 82:7 years 9:1 86:5,20 y'all 21:18,19 .............. 1 1 7:7 10:06 1:23 100 56:18 12:47 94:13 1400 2:16 19 48:16 1960 76:21 1966 19:17,20 1974 83:23 87:4 1975 28:8 1977 84:23 85:13 1987 36:2 43:22 67:15 70:5 71:6 1991 54:9 1997 63:17 64:11 66:8 69:8 71:10 1999 5:19 ________ 2______ 2 45:8 20 55:6 2001 10:19 2003 1:23 94:13 95:9 96:10 97:18 21st 1:23 94:13 95:9 218 1:19 26 36:2 274012:17 29th 96:10 2956 2:7 6821:1 22:1 69 21:2 22:1 7 70 21:3 22:4 70s 24:22 33:13 87:20 71 24:21 72 24:21 74 27:22 82:20 75 27:22 28:14 770 5:15 8 80s 28:21 29:5 30:16 31:20 32:14 33:6 34:1 37:7,8 801 6:1,2 87 37:9 42:11,19 47:17 48:16 50:21 54:18 55:2 56:6,8 67:21 9 90 76:19 90s 48:18 57:14 91 54:14,18 55:2 56:6 56:14 57:9 93 17:4 94 17:4 95:22 95 58:8,17 59:1 97 57:5,9 67:11,14 70:18 73:23 98 14:9,14 16:22 17:10 17:21 76:19 99 8:13,15 9:20 17:6 __________ 3 30 55:6 30s 30:11 300 2:15 35205 2:8 __________ 4 4 4:3 40:6 __________ 5 5 45:9 6 60s 22:6 79:1,4,22 80:7 81:8,8 87:20 66 82:1 334.262.7556 Reagan Reporters, LLC www .reaganreporters .com Page 9 1.888.662.7556 WATER PCB-SD0000022006