Document Yjv7GQOY3xEdpkpGv5wn1BKLy
FILE NAME Orton ORT
DATE 2008 May 8
DOC ORT013
DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION Legal - Deposition of Dale A. Fronk Spear Exhibit 3
EXHIBIT 3
Dale A. Fronk
SUPERIOR
COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA COUNTY OF SAN FRANCISCO
Chris Shinall and Maruja
Shinall
:
Plaintiffs
:
VS.
CSR Ltd. aka Colonial
Sugar Refinery et al
Defendants
: Case No. CGC 07-274462
:
10
DEPOSITION
11
of Dale A. Fronk taken before me Rosemary F.
12
Anderson a Notary Public in and for the State of
13
Ohio at the Sheraton Suites Columbus 201 Hutchinson
14
Avenue Columbus Ohio on Thursday May 8 2008 at
15
12:37 p.m.
16
17
18
19
20
21
ARMSTRONG & OKEY INC
185 South Fifth Street Suite 101
22
Columbus Ohio 43215-5201
614 224-9481 - 800 223-9481
23
FAX - 614 224-5724
MAY 1 4 2008
COPY COPY 24
COPY
RCVD W
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
APPEARANCES:
Levin Simes Kaiser & Gornick LLP By Mr. William Levin
44 Montgomery Street 36th Floor San Francisco California 94104
On behalf of the Plaintiffs
Jackson & Wallace
By Ms. Catherine Golden 55 Francisco Street 6th Floor San Francisco California 94133
On behalf of Foundation
the
Defendant
Orton
Ceramic
ALSO PRESENT
10
Mr. Gil Whitney Videographer
11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Witness Dale A. Fronk
INDEX
Dale A. Fronk 3
Page
Plaintiff Exhibit
1 - Notice of Deposition
Identified
5
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
Thursday Afternoon Session
May 8 2008
THE VIDEOGRAPHER We are on the record
Today's date is May 8 2008. The time is
approximately 12:37 p.m. We are here to take the
videotape position of Dale Fronk in the case of Chris
Shinall versus CSR Ltd. aka Colonial Sugar
Refinery et al Case No. CGC 07-274462 in the
10
Superior Court of the State California County of San
11
Francisco
12
I am Gil Whitney I'm the videographer
13
today Today's court reporter is Rosemary Anderson
14
We're with the firm of Armstrong & Okey
15
The court reporter may swear the witness
16
Witness sworn
17
THE VIDEOGRAPHER And also I'd like
18
counsel to introduce themselves
19
MS GOLDEN
Yes this is Catherine --
20
MR LEVIN Good morning although it may
21
be afternoon where you are sir My name is Bill
22
Levin How are you doing
23
THE WITNESS Very good Bill thank you
24
MR LEVIN Does the court reporter have
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
a copy of the notice by any chance
EXHIBIT MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION )
MR LEVIN
I just want to say this
deposition is being taken pursuant to deposition
notice which is now attached as Plaintiff's
Exhibit 1
DALE A. FRONK
being by me first duly sworn as hereinafter
10
certified deposes and says as follows
11
EXAMINATION
12
By Mr. Levin
13
Q.
Sir you're being produced as a person
14
most knowledgeable at Orton on a number of topics
15 that are contained in the deposition notice Do you
16
understand that
17
A.
No I don't
18
Q.
Okay Tell me what you do understand
19
A.
I understand that I'm here to give a
20 deposition
21
Q.
Okay Have you seen the deposition
22
notice
23
A.
I don't know that I've actually seen the
24
deposition notice
I don't know what you're -- no I
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
have not seen one
Q.
Okay So you haven't seen the deposition
notice that sets forth the categories that you're
being produced to testify about
A.
That's correct
MS GOLDEN I see that
Madam Court Reporter could
Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 1 has no
categories at all Okay Well I'm not sure what
10
you have
11
Actually I'm sorry this deposition
12
notice that the court reporter has marked actually
13
says Notice of Taking Deposition of Employee Bill
14
Chase
15
MR LEVIN Okay we'll have to
16
substitute the correct exhibit deposition notice
17
Q.
But suffice it to say you haven't seen
18
any deposition notice sir correct
19
A.
That's correct
20
Q.
Okay And you're not familiar with the
21
categories set forth in the deposition notice
22
A.
That's correct
23
MS GOLDEN Well I'm just going to put
24
in a belated objection that that lacks foundation
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
MR LEVIN All right
Q.
Sir could you outline for me your
history with Orton working at the company
A.
I started with the Orton Ceramic
Foundation December 1 1962. I terminated employment with them June 30 2007 That's my employment dates
Q.
Okay
A.
44-1 years basically
Q.
Okay When you started in 1962 what was
10
your position with the company there
11
A.
In 1962 I was hired in as a ceramic
12
engineer
13
Q.
Okay And how long did you work as a
14
ceramic engineer
15
A.
Basically the entire time
16
Q.
Okay And have you ever been deposed
17
before
18
A.
I have been deposed yes
19
Q.
How many occasions
20
A.
One
21
Q.
Okay Do you remember when and where
22
that was
23
A.
Basically ten years ago here in Columbus
24
Ohio
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
Q.
Okay Now when you began with the
company in 1962 as a ceramic engineer what was the
general sort of description of your job duties
A.
As a ceramic engineer I was in charge of
quality control engineering method improvements
Q.
Okay And do you understand that this
case involves what I'm going to refer to as Orton
cones
MS GOLDEN I'm going to object It's
10
vague and it calls for speculation It lacks
11
foundation
12
You can go ahead and answer
13
A.
I understand that it involves Orton and
14
I guess you could say something to do with our
15
materials yes
16
Q.
Okay What materials do you understand
17
to be involved in this case
18
MS GOLDEN I'm going to object That's
19
vague ambiguous It's overbroad It lacks
20
foundation
I don't know what difference it makes
21
what his knowledge is about what the case is about
22
Q.
You can answer
23
A.
Would you rephrase or ask me the question
24
again
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
Q.
Yeah Do you have an understanding as to
which products manufactured by Orton Ceramics are
involved in this case
A.
Well I don't think -- no we didn't
manufacture a product that is involved in this case
Q.
Okay Why is that
MS GOLDEN Okay That's argumentative
That makes no sense
It lacks foundation
It's
overbroad
It's vague
Why is that that you didn't
10
manufacture a product that is involved in this case
11
Q.
Yes What's your basis for saying what
12
you just said sir
13
MS GOLDEN Okay To clarify for the
14
record the basis in this case and the allegations
15
have to do with packaging material that was used in a
16
package to ship the cones
17
A.
We did not manufacture that product
18
Q.
All right How -- how would you describe
19
the packaging materials we're now talking about sir
20
A.
How would I describe them
21 Q. Yeah
22
A.
As it relates to
23
Q.
Well when you were working there what
24
did you commonly refer to these packaging materials
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
10 as
MS GOLDEN I'm going to object
There's no -- it lacks foundation
It's vague and
it's overbroad It's ambiguous and there is no time
frame specified
Q.
What was Orton in the business of selling
when you went there in 1962 what kinds of products
A.
In 1962 we were selling pyrometric cones
Q.
Any other product
10
A.
Not in 1962
11
Q.
Okay And what are polymetric cones
12
A.
Pyrometric cones are time temperature
13
measuring indicators typically used to measure the
14
amount of heat work established in the firing
15
process
16
Q.
Okay And when you sold those polymetric
17
cones did the polymetric cones get sold with
18 packaging material
19
MS GOLDEN
I'm sorry I was going to
20
say it's pyrometric
21
Q.
Pyrometric
22
A.
R pyro
23
Q.
Right pyrometric cones When you sold
24
the pyrometric cones in 1962 did they get sold along
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
11
with packaging material
A.
They were packaged that's correct
Q.
Okay And in 1962 -- well in 1962 were
the pyrometric cones packaged in sawdust
A.
That is correct
Q.
Okay And is it true that in the middle
of 1963 Orton began packaging its pyrometric cones
with vermiculite
A.
It was in that area yes
10
Q.
Okay And do you know why it is that
11
Orton switched from packaging its pyrometric cones in
12
sawdust to packaging them in vermiculite
13
A.
I do know why yes
14
Q.
Tell me why
15
A.
Back in 1962-63 sawdust was difficult to
16
obtain the quantities that we required on a weekly
17
daily monthly basis so we were looking for
18
alternatives to sawdust
19
Q.
Okay Did you look at a number of
20
alternatives to sawdust
21
A.
That is correct probably as many as six
22
or eight different alternatives
23
Q.
Okay And eventually you settled on
24
vermiculite
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
12
A.
That is correct
Q.
And at the time that you were looking at
all of the alternatives did you do any research as
to the possible health hazards that may have been
associated with any of the alternative materials that
you were considering
A.
There was no reason for us to do that
Q.
So that would be a no
A.
That's a no
10
Q.
Okay What were the other materials that
11
you considered using as packaging material
12
A.
Ground up corncobs peanut shells
13
popcorn things of that nature
14
Q.
Okay Eventually you decided on the
15
mineral vermiculite
16
A.
That's correct yes
17
Q.
All right And at the time did Orton
18
have -- how many employees were at Orton
19
A.
Approximate number 45
20
Q.
Okay
And how many of them were -- had
21
an engineering background
22
A.
Myself and the general -- the assistant
23
to the general manager two of us
24
Q.
Okay Was there anybody who had
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
13
responsibility for safety
MS GOLDEN I am going to object It's
vague ambiguous overbroad It lacks foundation
You can go ahead
A.
Probably that would have fallen under my
duties and responsibilities
Q.
Okay Were there any chemists at the
company
A.
No.
10
Q.
Okay What types of disciplines did the
11
other employees have types of expertise did they
12
have at the time
13
MS GOLDEN And just so I'm clear Bill
14
are we talking about '63 now
15
MR LEVIN Yes 63's fine
16
MS GOLDEN Okay
17
Q.
If Orton was in the business of selling
18
pyrometric cones and had a number of employees I'm
19
just trying to get a sense of the different types of
20
expertise that those employees had at the time
21
MS GOLDEN
No no no
That's fine
I
22
thought you had premised a time frame when we started
23
out with 45 employees and I just wondered if we were
24
still in that kind of time frame
That's all
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
14
MR LEVIN
Yes
MS GOLDEN Okay
A.
I'm going to answer the best I can
The
general manager was also a professor at the Ohio
State University in engineering The assistant
general manager was a ceramic engineer sales
engineer myself We had one individual that worked
in the research of pyrometric cones From that point
down the remaining employees were high school
10
graduates or educations less than that
11
Q.
All right And when you were evaluating
12
the alternatives the alternative materials that you
13
could use as packaging material when you were
14
evaluating vermiculite did you do any sort of
15
testing or research into the nature of vermiculite as
16
a material
17
MS GOLDEN I'm going to object It's
18
vague ambiguous and it lacks foundation it's
19
overbroad ambiguous
20
A.
I can state that the testing as I
21
understand the word testing perhaps the way you
22
stated it yeah we tested it as to whether or not it
23
would effectively meet the goals and our objectives
24
of getting our product from our plant to the end
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
15
users plants without the cones breaking
Q.
Okay But beyond trying to determine
whether it was functional for your purposes you
didn't do any further research or investigation into
the nature of vermiculite as a material
A.
I didn't think I had to
There was no
reason for me to do testing other than just that
that's correct
Q.
Okay Now when you were still
10
evaluating the various materials that you could use
11
including vermiculite when you were looking at
12
vermiculite was there some company that you were
13
dealing with that was supplying the vermiculite to
14
you so you could determine whether it was functional
15
for your purposes
16
A.
When you say a company are you talking
17
about where I obtained my source or the manufacturer
18
Can you help me here a little bit
19
Q.
Yeah where you obtained your source
20
A.
It was --
21
Q.
Really I'm talking about both You had
22
to get your hands on vermiculite to see if it was
23
helpful to you in your packaging and I'm just trying
24
to determine who you got from and where you got it
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
16
A.
Very good I think in particular it was
called Oakland Nursery and it was a nursery That's
where we got it
Q.
Oakland Nursery
A.
That's correct
Q.
Where was that
A.
In the middle of Columbus Ohio you
know a nursery an organization that sells plants
flowers trees
10
Q.
Do you know where they got their
11
vermiculite
12
A.
I have no idea
13
Q.
Okay And then eventually you decided to
14
use vermiculite in the packaging of the pyrometric
15
cones in about mid '63 correct
16
A.
That's correct
17
Q.
Okay At that point in time when you
18
first started using vermiculite in the packaging of
19
the pyrometric cones where did you get your
20
vermiculite
21
A.
I don't really know unless I'd go to the
22
records
23
Q.
Okay Are there records
24
A.
I personally don't have records no
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
17
Q.
Okay So you don't know who Orton
purchased its vermiculite from in mid 1963
A.
Not unless I would see the purchase
order no
Q. checks --
Okay
I have a number of checks Orton
A.
Okay
Q.
-~- that were produced by I think it was
Gary Childress and those checks are from Edward
10
Orton Ceramic Foundation beginning in March '63 going
11
all the way through '64 and '65 and '66 and '67 '70
12
and '74 to Zonolite
Have you ever seen those
13
checks
14
MS GOLDEN I'm going to object It
15
lacks foundation The documents speak for
16
themselves
It's vague
Well that's it
That's my
17
objections Go ahead
18
MR LEVIN Okay
19
0
Have you ever seen those checks
20
A.
I might have run across a check but that
21
wasn't - seeing the actual check was not part of my
22
duties or responsibilities
23
Q.
At the time you mean at the time
24
A.
At the time that's correct
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
18
Q.
Okay But in preparing for this
deposition have you been provided by counsel with
copies of those checks to review
A.
I have not seen a check for review
you are
MR LEVIN
Okay
Is there a fax where
MS GOLDEN Yeah There's probably a
fax at the front desk of the hotel
Do you want to
fax something Bill
10
MR LEVIN Well do you have the checks
11
with you Otherwise I'm going to fax them to you
12
MS GOLDEN I don't have everything with
13
me Are you looking at a specific check
14
MR LEVIN I'm looking at the whole
15
stack
16
MS GOLDEN
I don't have the whole stack
17
with me
I mean I had them on Tuesday when we did
18
Gary's deposition but I don't have them anymore
19
MR LEVIN Okay
20
MS GOLDEN
But I do have a few if you
21
want me to show ~-- if you have a specific one you
22
want him to look at
23
MR LEVIN
No a few would be good
24
MS GOLDEN
Okay
Tell me what you're
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
19
looking at and I'll see if I have it with me
MR LEVIN I'm looking at Exhibit 3 to
Childress deposition which starts with check
6810 and then goes through a number of checks
MS GOLDEN
Is this an exhibit from the
prior depo
MR LEVIN Yeah it's from the 107
MS GOLDEN
I got that one
It says
Plaintiff's Exhibit 3 right on the top of it
10
MR LEVIN
Yes
11
MS GOLDEN Yes I have that Do you
12
want me to show it to him
13
MR LEVIN
Yes
14
MS GOLDEN Okay Madam Court Reporter
15
for the record this is a check dated March 20 1963
16
and it has previously been marked as Plaintiff's
17
Exhibit 3 to the Childress deposition dated 11/28/07
18
and the check is for 662.24
19
That's the one you're talking about
20
right Bill
21
MR LEVIN
That's the top one yes
22
MS GOLDEN Okay He's looking at it
23
Q.
By Mr. Levin Just thumb through it
24
sir
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
20
A.
I've got it okay
MS GOLDEN
He's got it
He's got a
copy.
Q.
Okay Thumb through the exhibit
at all the checks there
Look
MS GOLDEN front of him
No he's got one check in
MR LEVIN
You do not have the rest of
them
10
MS GOLDEN
I have a few of them
H
11
don't have all of them with me
12
MR LEVIN Okay Well show him the
13
ones you have
14
MS GOLDEN Well you need to tell me
15
I'm not going to show him the ones I have You tell
16
me which ones you want him to look at
17
MR LEVIN
I'll fax them to the hotel
18
MS GOLDEN
Okay
I mean there must
19
be - you're going to be faxing about what 60 pages
20
MR LEVIN Something like that Let's
21
just take a minute break while I can get it
22
faxed
What hotel are you at there
23
MS GOLDEN
Well it's called the
24
Sheraton Suites
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
21
MR LEVIN Where
MS GOLDEN In Columbus Ohio and I
don't know what the fax number is
Do you want to go
off the record for a moment
MR LEVIN No I'm just going to step
away and get this faxed there
MS GOLDEN Okay all right
Discussion off the record)
Q.
By Mr. Levin Sir you have seen one of
10
the checks from Exhibit 3.
I'm going to fax the rest
11
to the hotel But they reflect don't they a
12
payment from Orton to Zonolite
13
That's correct yes
Q. 14
Are you familiar with Zonolite
15
Yes I am
16
Q.
What is Zonolite
17
A.
Well it's the company that we ordered
18
packaging material from
19
Q.
Okay And do you understand that the
20
packaging material that you ordered from Zonolite was
21
vermiculite
22
A.
That is correct
23
Q.
Okay
And at least this check that you
24
have in front of you reflects that being paid for in
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
22
March of 1963 correct
A.
That's correct
Q. from
And do you know where the Zonolite came
A.
No I do not
. Q.
Okay And in connection with preparing
to be presented as the person most knowledgeable on a
number of subjects including the one I just asked
you about did you do anything to determine -- to
10
help you determine where the vermiculite that Orton
11
was purchasing in 1963 came from
12
MS GOLDEN I'm going to object because
13
you're assuming that he was presented as a person
14
most knowledgeable He's already stated that that is
15
not his understanding
16
MR LEVIN
That was what the notice --
17
MS GOLDEN
But you can go ahead
You
18
can go ahead and answer the question with that
19
caveat
20
A.
Bill can you break the question down a
21
little bit to help me
22
Q.
Well let me -- counsel is saying that
23
you're not being produced as the person most
24
knowledgeable or implying that
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
23
MR LEVIN
Is that the case counsel
MS GOLDEN Well you have a specific deposition notice for Dale Fronk which we don't have
here and it is not for the person most
knowledgeable
MR LEVIN All right Hold on a second
Q.
All right So my question is whether you
have done anything to try to determine back in 1963
where the Zonolite came from
10
MS GOLDEN I'm going to object It's
11
vague It's overbroad and it calls for speculation
12
And I don't know what you mean by where it came
13
from Are you talking manufactured where it was
14
shipped from what
15
MR LEVIN All of those things anything
16
he's done to determine any and all of those things
17
MS GOLDEN
Okay
Well then you can --
18
A.
I don't really remember right now of me
19
trying to determine where it came from other than the
20
shipping point from wherever they had it in stock to
21 us Other than that no Bill I don't remember any
22
details of that
23
Q.
Okay
What do you remember about the
24 shipping point
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
24
A.
In all honesty I vaguely remember it came
from Kentucky to Columbus Ohio That's the best I
can remember
Q.
Okay You were not involved in
purchasing the Zonolite
A.
I was involved in purchasing the
Zonolite
Q.
Okay And was -- did you deal with
anyone at Zonolite or W. R. Grace
10
MS GOLDEN Objection I don't know
11
where W. R. Grace came into this
So we have two
12
questions here That question is compound
13
A.
I
-
14
Q.
Who is W. R. Grace sir Do you know who
15
W. R. Grace is
16
A.
I know of W. R. Grace yes
17
Q.
Okay And did they sell vermiculite to
18
Orton
19
A.
In 1963
20
Q.
No at all
21
A.
There was a period of time yes
22
Q.
Okay And did you deal with anyone at
23
Zonolite or at W. R. Grace
24
MS GOLDEN Okay that question is
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
25
vague ambiguous overbroad and it lacks foundation
It's compound
Q.
Did you deal with anyone at Zonolite in
purchasing vermiculite
A.
Yes
Q.
Okay Who
A.
I don't know by name but by position
probably a sales -- the sales department would be
first The order department would be second
10
Q.
Okay And where were those people that
11
you dealt with located
12
A.
You know Bill in all honesty I have no
13
idea
I'm going to assume from the location that the
14
shipment came from would be my guess
15
MS GOLDEN
Okay And we don't want you
16
to guess If you just don't remember don't know
17
you can just say you don't remember you don't know
18
A.
I don't know Bill
19
Q.
Okay I'm looking at a letter from
20
Grace Diane O'Donnell technical administrator to
21
Dale Fronk And it says Mr. Fronk This is in
22
response to your recent request for a material safety
23
data sheet for vermiculite No. 2 which you have been
24
using as packing material I am attaching a copy of
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
26
our MSDS 140 industrial vermiculite Libby source
size 1 2 and 3
recently
A.
Have you seen that correspondence
Yes
Q.
Okay Do you have it there in front of
you
A.
Not in front of me but --
MS GOLDEN
Do you want him to look at
10
it
11
MR LEVIN
If you have it
12
MS GOLDEN For the record this is a
13
letter from Grace to Mr. Fronk and it has been
14
previously been marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 6
15
to Gary Childress depo of 11/28/07 I'm putting it
16
in front of the witness
17
Q.
Do you see that letter sir
18
A.
I have it in front of me yes
19
Q.
And do you have the material safety data
20
sheet attached to it
21
A.
I have just the letter
22
Q.
Well there is a material safety data
23
sheet attached to the version that I have from
24
Exhibit 6.
Have you seen that also
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
27
A.
I
MS GOLDEN Okay I have a material
safety data sheet It does not have an
exhibit number on it I don't think there's anything
on the Plaintiff's Exhibit 6. No it doesn't say how
many pages it is
If you want me to show him the
material safety data sheet that was apparently sent
at the same time as this letter September 25 1981
I can show it to him
Do you want me to put that in
10
front of him
11
Q.
Okay
Sir --
12
A.
Yes
13
Q.
-- so would you agree with me that both
14
the letter and the material safety data sheet reflect
15
that vermiculite was being supplied to Orton by
16
W. R. Grace from Libby Montana
17
MS GOLDEN I'm going to object That's
18
overbroad It calls for speculation The document
19
speaks for itself and it lacks foundation
20
A.
Bill right now I have just the letter in
21
front of me
22
Q.
All right Will you agree with me the
23
letter reflects that the source of the vermiculite
24
that Grace was supplying to Orton was from Libby
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
28
MS GOLDEN Same objections The
document speaks for itself
A.
It states here I am attaching a copy of
such and such industrial vermiculite Libby source
size 1 2 and 3.
That's what the letter states
Q.
Okay Would you agree that that reflects
that the source of the vermiculite that was Grace was
selling to Orton was Libby -- was from Libby
Montana
10
MS GOLDEN I'm going to object It
11
calls for speculation It lacks foundation The
12
document speaks for itself It calls for
13
speculation The document says what it says
14
Q.
Go ahead sir
15
A.
Bill it doesn't state anything about
16
Montana on this letter
17
Q.
Okay Do you have the material safety
18
data sheet in front of you
19
A.
Not yet
20
MS GOLDEN
I asked you if you wanted me
21
to put it in front of him You didn't respond Do
22
you want me to give it to him
23
MR LEVIN
Yes
24
MS GOLDEN Okay Madam Court Reporter
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
29
identifying for the record a material safety data
sheet dated June 10 1977
Manufacturer's name is
W. R. Grace and this is a page form that I am
placing in front of the witness
Q.
Okay And could you look at
section 1 and read what it says about the
manufacturer of the vermiculite
A.
Yeah The manufacturer on this material
safety data sheet it just says Manufacturer's name
10
W. R. Grace & Company
11
Q.
And then two lines down it says
12
Chemical name and synonyms What does it say
13
A.
Okay It says Expanded Libby Montana
14
vermiculite
15
Q.
Okay And this was a material safety
16
data sheet that was forwarded by W. R. Grace to you
17
at your request
18
A.
I would assume that and I shouldn't be
19
assuming Well I have the material safety data
20
sheet in front of me that's correct
21
Q.
In the letter it says This is in
22
response to your request meaning Mr. Fronk for a
23
material safety data sheet
24
A.
Well let me just do something The
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
30
letter I have is September 25
Q.
Right
A.
And the material safety data sheet is
dated June 10 1977
Q.
Right Well that may be the operative
material safety data sheet for that time period I'm
asking you assuming that this material safety data
sheet came with this letter whether you would agree
it was in response to a request you made for a
10
material safety data sheet for vermiculite
11
A.
That is correct
12
Q.
Okay And do you remember why you made
13
that request
14
A.
For the material safety data sheets in
15
1981
16
Q.
Yes
17
A.
To comply with an OSHA standard
18
Q.
Okay Having to do with what
19
A.
Health and safety in all plants the
20
Williams Steiger Act of 1973
21
Q.
All right And what about the
22
vermiculite was a health and safety concern in 1981
23
MS GOLDEN Okay I'm going to object
24
That assumes facts not in evidence
That lacks
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
31
foundation and it misstates prior testimony vague and ambiguous and overbroad
A.
Bill a material safety data sheet
according to OSHA was required for anything brought into a plant and vermiculite was one of those things brought into a plant
Q.
Hold on a second
Okay
You were --
were you done with your answer
A.
Yes
10
Q.
This letter to you reflects that there
11
was a material called tremolite fiber in the
12
vermiculite correct
13
MS GOLDEN I'm going to object The
14
document speaks for itself It's also hearsay This
15
lacks foundation vague and ambiguous
16
You can answer the question
17
A.
The letter states This further reduces
18
the exposure of the user to airborne tremolite fiber
19
Q.
And what is tremolite fiber as far as you
20
understand it sir
21
MS GOLDEN I'm going to object That
22
calls for an expert opinion It lacks foundation
23
It's vague
It's overbroad
24
If you -
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
32
Q.
Sir
A.
I took courses in mineralogy and
tremolite is a mineral
Q.
An asbestos fiber correct
A.
No I don't -- I wouldn't say it's an
asbestos fiber from my knowledge of the courses that
I've had in mineralogy
Q.
When did you first become aware that the
vermiculite that was purchasing from -- well the
10
vermiculite that you were purchasing contained
11
tremolite
12
MS GOLDEN Well first of all that
13
assumes facts that are not in evidence
There's no
14
time period presented It's vague ambiguous and
15
lacks foundation
16
Madam Court Reporter could you read back
17
the question for the witness please
18
Record read
19
A.
Bill the vermiculite that we were using
20
according to the letter says vermiculite No. 2 --
21
MS GOLDEN
You have to listen to his
22
question carefully He said when
23
THE WITNESS
When
24
MS GOLDEN And then the question does
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
33
assume many things after that so
THE WITNESS
That's correct
A.
This letter here states and refers to
No. 3 expanded vermiculite containing tremolite and we were using No. 2. The answer to your question is I don't really know when that occurred if in fact
it did occur
Q.
Okay Did you - sometime did you become
aware that the vermiculite that you were using
10
contained tremolite
11
MS GOLDEN Objection assumes facts not
12
in evidence lacks foundation
13
You can go ahead
14
A.
I -- I don't ever remember where it
15
was -- we were informed I was informed that the
16
vermiculite we were using did in fact contain
17
tremolite
I don't ever remember somebody hitting me
18
over the head telling me Hey this contains
19
tremolite don't ever remember that other than what
20
the letter states here that No. 3 contained -- could
21
possibly contain tremolite
22
Q.
Okay Well could you turn to the
23
material safety data sheet
24
A.
Okay
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
34
Q.
And this is for the No. 2 vermiculite
that you were purchasing
A.
Correct
Q.
And see where it in section 2 it says
Hazardous ingredients
A.
That's correct
0
And it says
Contains less than
.1 percent by weight of a naturally occurring
contaminant tremolite
10
A.
Okay
I see that now yes
11
Q.
Okay And it says OSHA Regulation
12
1910.1001 defines tremolite as asbestos
13
A.
That's correct that's what it says
14
Q.
Okay
So would you agree with me that
15
the vermiculite that you were purchasing from Grace
16
contained tremolite
17
MS GOLDEN Okay I'm going to object
18
There's no foundation
There's no time frame here
19
and the document is hearsay and it's vague and
20
ambiguous
21
But you can answer the question
22
A.
Bill according to the MSDS sheet dated
23
June 10 1977 section 2 it states that like you
24
said that vermiculite and I'm not sure yet if it's
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
35
No. 2 I'm still looking for that It says
industrial sizes you're correct 1 2 and 3 Okay so it would possibly contain what they say here in
quotes asbestos fibers
Q.
Okay And that was the vermiculite that
you were -- that Orton was purchasing from Grace
A.
No. 2 was what we were purchasing that's
correct
Q.
Okay And the No. 2 along with the
10
No. 1 and No. 3 contained tremolite asbestos
11
MS GOLDEN I'm going to object That
12
calls for speculation The document speaks for
13
itself
There's no foundation here
14
Q.
According to the document the material
15
safety data sheet the vermiculite the No. 2 that
16
you were purchasing at Orton and the No. 1 and No. 3
17
contained tremolite asbestos correct
18
A.
It says here that it contains less than
19
1/10 percent by weight of a naturally occurring
20
contaminant tremolite that's correct
21
Q.
And it also says that OSHA defines
22
tremolite as asbestos correct
23
A.
It says OSHA regulation defines tremolite
24
as asbestos that's correct
That's what it says
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
36
Q.
Okay And that's talking about the
No. 2 vermiculite that Grace was supplying to Orton
MS GOLDEN All right I'm going to
object That's now been asked and answered three or four times and he's answered
You don't need to answer that again
THE WITNESS Okay MR LEVIN Well I'd like an answer just
so we're clear
10
MS GOLDEN We are perfectly clear
11
This is getting abusive You've asked him so many
12
times the same question The document speaks for
13
itself
14
You can answer this question one more
15
time
16
A.
The form states yes in answer to your
17
question what I read here
18
Q.
At any time -- do you have any knowledge
19
that the vermiculite supplied by Zonolite to Orton in
20
the 1963 through 19 - 1969 time period came from any
21
source other than Libby Montana
22
MS GOLDEN That question completely
23
assumes the fact that the vermiculite came from
24
Libby Montana and only Libby Montana That lacks
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
37
foundation You're trying to trick the witness
It's vague It's ambiguous It's overbroad
You can answer the question
A.
Bill I have no recollection as to where
the vermiculite was being mined
MS GOLDEN He's talking about '63 to
'68
A.
That's correct from 1963 to 1968
Q.
At all
10
A.
I have no recollection as to where it was
11
mined that's correct
12
Q.
Could you describe the packaging that
13
these pyrometric cones came in from '63 to you know
14
163 '67 time frame
15
MS GOLDEN I'm going to object
16
There's absolutely no allegations in the complaint or
17
anywhere else that there was any exposure or anything
18
to do with any Orton cones past the spring of 1964
19
So I don't know what the relevance is of a packaging
20
after the spring of 1964
21
MR LEVIN That's fine
22
Q
From the time you came to the company
23
until let's just say through 1964 can you describe
24
what the packaging of the cones looked like
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
38
A.
The packaging material used
Q.
Yes
MS GOLDEN
No he wants to know -- oh
I'm sorry Okay We need to clarify what you mean
by the packaging
THE WITNESS
Yeah
Q.
If someone was purchasing the Orton
cones --
A.
Okay
10
Q.
- in that time period and it was shipped
11
to them --
12
A.
Okay
13
Q.
-- and they had to take the cones out of
14
whatever they were contained in what would they be
15
seeing What would they be looking at Describe
16
how you know how it was shipped what it was
17
contained in
18
A.
Okay
19
MS GOLDEN
I'm confused Are you
20
talking about the box
21
MR LEVIN
Yes
22
MS GOLDEN Okay So we're talking
23
about the box now '62 to '64
24
Q.
Yeah start with the box
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
39
A.
Okay There were two different box sizes
used at that time this time frame
One box was
basically a three inch by three inch by six inch and
that was what we referretdo as a half telescope box
Q.
What kind of box
A.
Cardboard
Q.
Okay And you opened it what at the
top
A.
The top being a half telescope that's
10
correct The top of that box would lift off of the
11
bottom section of the box That was one type box
12
one size box The other size box was just basically
13
half that size half that size in the three inch by
14
three inch -- I'm sorry
It would be the three inch
15
by six inch but only half as tall
16
Q.
Okay
17
A.
So one and a half inch tall And that
18
also was a half telescope box
19
Q.
Okay
20
A.
That's the box
21
Q.
Okay And then you'd open the box and
22
there'd be what
23
A.
There would be the contents of the --
24
whatever the box indicated you know 50 cone
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
40
10 pyrometric cones so there would be 50 pyrometric
cones in that box Surrounding the cones would be a
packaging material
0
And that would be the vermiculite --
Q.
A.
Not --
-- beginning in mid '63 Not necessarily
Q.
A.
And why is that Because when I came in '62 and part of
10
'63 we were using sawdust and those cones would go
11
into inventory and those cones might not have come
12
out of inventory for six eight months later two
13 years later So if I opened up a box of cones in mid
14
'63 it could contain sawdust even in late '63 could
15
contain sawdust Until we used up all the sawdust
16
we did not start to pack in vermiculite
17
Q.
Okay How long did it take to use up the
18
sawdust inventory
19
A.
Back in those days it could take a week
20
two weeks maybe even as much as a month
21
Q.
Okay But after you used up the sawdust
22
inventory it was packaged in vermiculite
A.
That is correct
24
Q.
And did you ever handle the vermiculite
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
41
yourself
A.
Yes I did
Q.
Okay And when you handled the
vermiculite did dust get on your hands
A.
If you and I both accept dust as being
the remains of the product yes
Q.
And so when somebody tried to take the
cones out of the packaging they'd have to move away
the vermiculite that was surrounding it correct
10
MS GOLDEN
That assumes facts not in
11
evidence It lacks foundation It's vague
12
ambiguous and overbroad It calls for speculation
13
Are we talking about a full box a half empty box
14
What are --
15
Q.
If somebody opened a box with a cone in
16
it that was packed in vermiculite to get the cone
17
out they would have to remove the vermiculite that
18
was surrounding the cone correct
19
A.
The best way I can answer that is we
20
wanted vermiculite to be between two cones so that
21
two cones wouldn't be touching each other in the
22
shipping process So the best I can answer that
23
Bill is if I were to remove a cone from a box I
24
would have to touch or move to the side vermiculite
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
43
have that called dust something that would go
airborne
Q.
Did you ever do any testing of the air
for tremolite asbestos in the vicinity of somebody
that was handling this vermiculite that your cones
were packaged in
Record read
A.
No.
MS GOLDEN
Okay
That assumes facts
10
not in evidence
It lacks foundation
11
A.
No.
12
Q.
Okay Did you ever consult with an
13
industrial hygienist as to the health hazard that may
14
have been presented by the vermiculite packaging that
15
you were packaging your cones in And by that I mean
16
a health hazard to somebody that was handling the
17
packaging in connection with using your cones
18
MS GOLDEN I'm going to object That's
19
vague It's ambiguous It's overbroad
20
You can answer it
21
A.
Bill that is very broad because we did
22
have a State of Ohio hygienist in our plant and we
23
did ask them to analyze I'm going to say dust that
24
would be generated in a manufacturing process
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
44
Q.
When was that
A.
Oh gees probably in the 70s and 80s
< Okay
A.
90s
Q.
Did that industrial hygienist in Ohio
the work of that person involve testing for asbestos
in the air at Orton
A.
Well --
MS GOLDEN Objection This lacks
10
foundation
It's overbroad
It's vague and it has
11
nothing to do with the allegations in the complaint
12
or this case what was going inside - on inside the
13
manufacturing plant of Orton
14
Go ahead and answer the question
15
A.
Bill they didn't come to detect asbestos
16
in our plant mainly because we and they didn't see
17
the need for that to be done
18
Q.
And that's -- that's because the plant
19
wasn't -- the packaging was - I mean the plant
20
wasn't making the packaging correct
21
A.
That's correct we were not making
22
vermiculite That's correct
23
Q
Correct
So the industrial hygienist who
24
was there was basically evaluating the condition of
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
45
manufacture of the pyrometric cones not the -- not
the vermiculite packaging
A.
That's negative That's no
Q.
Can you elaborate
A.
Well can you rephrase that
Q.
Well I originally started out by asking
whether an industrial hygienist had ever sort of done
any testing in the air for the presence of asbestos
for you
10
A.
Bill when we asked them to come out to
11
analyze our atmosphere our air --
12
Q.
Yeah
13
A.
-- and this is through EPA or OSHA
14
whatever --
15
Q.
Yeah
16
A.
-- we wanted to make sure that we had a
17
plant that was safe health They analyzed dust
18
and they gave us the report and they analyzed it for
19
knowing what we were using in that plant They
20
analyzed it for anything and everything they thought
21
we should know about that might be hazardous
22
Q.
Well was anybody handling the
23
vermiculite packaging at the plant when they were
24
doing this testing
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
46
That is correct yes
Q. They were
A.
That's correct
Q.
Did they do any air sampling near the
vermiculite packaging
A.
Oh yes
Q.
Do you have the results of that air
sampling
A.
Not in front of me but the State of Ohio
10
did some reports yes
11
Q.
Okay When they did those reports did
12
they -- did the State of Ohio understand that the
13
vermiculite contained tremolite asbestos
14
MS GOLDEN Objection That calls for
15
speculation It lacks foundation It's vague
16
ambiguous and overbroad
17
Do you know what the State of Ohio knew
18
A.
That's what I was going to say Bill I
19
have no knowledge as to the expertise of the
20
individual sampling or the people that tested
21
analyzed the results I don't know that
22
Q.
Okay At that time did you know that the
23
vermiculite contained tremolite asbestos
24
MS GOLDEN Okay You're assuming at
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
47
all times that all vermiculite that Orton ever had
contained asbestos which is simply not true And
also I'm not clear on what the time period is Your
question lacks foundation
It assumes facts not in
evidence It calls for speculation
MR LEVIN The time frame is when they
did the test and he's given the time frames for
that
MS GOLDEN Well the testing went on
10
for quite a long time didn't it Bill
11
THE WITNESS Dale
12
MS GOLDEN
I mean Dale
I'm sorry
13
Didn't it go on for a while
14
THE WITNESS The testing for the dust
15
MS GOLDEN Yeah by OSHA or whoever it
16
was
17
THE WITNESS Yeah we did this like
18
every two years
19
Q.
Starting in what year
20
A.
I have no idea
I'm going to say 1970
21
MS GOLDEN Until when
22
THE WITNESS
I think it's - I don't
23
know if it's still going on
24
MS GOLDEN Okay
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
48
THE WITNESS But at least through 2000
Q.
Okay
And were you aware or do you know
if others at Orton were aware at that time that the
vermiculite contained tremolite asbestos
MS GOLDEN Objection assumes facts not
in evidence lacks foundation overbroad
A.
If -- I don't know if anyone else knew
that Bill
Q.
Okay Did you know that
10
A.
I know that according to the material
11
safety data sheet
12
Q.
But you didn't know it at the time
13
MS GOLDEN Okay I'm going to object
14
to that I have no idea what time period you're
15
talking about now
16
Q.
When they began testing did you know
17
that the vermiculite contained tremolite asbestos
18
A.
Bill I'm going --
19
MS GOLDEN
That assumes that the
20
vermiculite when they began testing in the 70s
21
contained tremolite and you have not established
22
that at all
You've assumed that as a fact so this
23
question completely lacks foundation This is the
24
problem that I have with these types of questions
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
49
Q.
Sir you may answer
MS GOLDEN
No he's not going answer
until you lay a foundation
Q.
Sir in 1970 did you know whether or not
vermiculite contained tremolite asbestos
MS GOLDEN Okay And you're talking
about any vermiculite anywhere in the country
Q.
The vermiculite you were using in your
plant
10
MS GOLDEN
Okay
So that would be
11
19 - I don't know what year he said
12
THE WITNESS
He said 1970.
The answer
13
is I did not know
14
Q.
Okay Did there come a point in time
15
where Orton contained -- strike that
16
Did there come a point in time where
17
Orton included warnings along with the sale of its
18
pyrometric cones that the cones were packaged in
19
vermiculite that might contain tremolite asbestos
20
MS GOLDEN Objection compound
21
overbroad vague
22
You can answer the question though
23
A.
The best I can answer your question
24
because I also found it vague was we never felt that
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
50
it was necessary to put a warning on
MS GOLDEN Did there ever come a point
in time when you put a warning on your cones
THE WITNESS A warning on our cones
MS GOLDEN
I think he said that had to
do with asbestos
THE WITNESS
That's correct
MS GOLDEN
And the answer is
THE WITNESS
No we never did
10
MS GOLDEN Thank you
11
Q.
By Mr. Levin Okay So you never
12
included any warning along with the sale of your
13
cones that the vermiculite that it was packaged in
14
might contain asbestos
15
MS GOLDEN
Is the answer no
16
A.
The answer is no
17
Q.
All right Was Orton a member of the
18
American Ceramic Society
19
A.
Yes
20
Q.
Did you attend those meetings
21
A.
From 1960 up until two years ago yes
22
Q.
Okay And do you recall at those
23
meetings whether the subject of asbestos as a health
24
hazard was discussed
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
51
A.
Now can you clarify that Bill for me
When you say at those meetings it was discussed in
generalities technical papers conferences What
were you referring to
Q.
I wasn't at the meetings
A.
Okay
Q.
But you started attending those meetings
when
A.
1960
10
And they were regular meetings correct
11
A.
Annual meetings of the American Ceramic
12
Society
13
Q.
And what I'm trying to learn if somebody
14
attended though annual meetings as you did of the
15
American Ceramic Society whether there would be
16
information discussed or disseminated at those annual
17
meetings that would inform people that asbestos was
18
hazardous to human health
19
MS GOLDEN Okay I'm going to object
20
That lacks foundation
It assumes facts that are not
21
in evidence It's vague ambiguous overbroad and
22
it doesn't even ~-- we have no time period here
23
whatsoever
24
But you can go ahead and answer the
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
52
question
A.
Bill I don't ever recall attending a
paper or a conference or a seminar where asbestos was
discussed at any of these meetings
Q.
Okay
Did you receive -- was there
literature disseminated by the American Ceramic
Society
A.
Yes
Q.
And did Orton receive that literature
10
A.
Most of it yes
11
Q.
And were you the person that got that
12
literature
13
A.
I got basically the same literature that
14
was sent to the American -- to the Orton Foundation
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I received that at home also yes
16
Q.
Did you review that literature
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A.
Not review
Trust me if you'd see the
18
literature -- did I review it
In some cases yes
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In most cases no
20
Q.
Did somebody else at Orton review the
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literature
22
MS GOLDEN Calls for speculation
23
A.
Probably not
24
MS GOLDEN
Do you know if anyone else
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
53
reviewed it
THE WITNESS
No.
MS GOLDEN Then just say no
A.
No.
MS GOLDEN
Don't guess
A.
I don't know of anyone at the Foundation
no
Okay Let's take a short break
A.
Okay
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MS GOLDEN Oh thank God
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THE VIDEOGRAPHER Off the record at 1:45
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p.m.
13 14
Recess taken
THE VIDEOGRAPHER
On the record at 1:56
15
p.m.
16
Q.
By Mr. Levin Sir are you aware of
17
sales to the University of Hawaii in the -164 time
18
frame
19
A.
No.
20
Q.
Okay Do you know who at the company
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would have been involved in the -164 time frame in
22
purchasing the vermiculite
23
A.
In the purchasing of vermiculite
24
Q.
Yes
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
54
A.
For our packaging materials -164
Q.
Yes
A.
That would have been either directly or
indirectly me
Q.
Okay Anyone else
A.
The purchasing not really no
Q.
Okay Beginning in '63 this was a new
material you were purchasing for the first time
correct
10
A.
A new material for packaging yes a new
11
material yes
12
Q.
Okay But are you telling me as you sit
13
here today you don't remember where you purchased it
14
from
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MS GOLDEN I'm going to object because
16
you've already shown him the check that went to
17
Zonolite so I don't understand the question This
18
has been asked and he answered it and you have all
19
the documents
20
Q.
Other than Zonolite do you remember
21
anyone else that you purchased vermiculite from in
22
the -164 time frame
23
A.
I don't know of any other Bill
24
Q.
Okay Okay Are you aware that the
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
55
Orton cones have been tested for the presence of tremolite
A.
Orton cones
MS GOLDEN Okay I'm going to object
That assumes facts not in evidence
It lacks
foundation it's vague It's ambiguous
MR LEVIN I'm going to rephrase it
Q.
The packaging material that the cones
came in are you aware that they've been tested for
10
the presence of tremolite
11
MS GOLDEN Okay I'm going to object
12
again because there's no time frame here and it
13
lacks foundation It's vague ambiguous and
14
overbroad
15
Are you aware that the vermiculite's ever
16
been tested I don't know -- actually I don't know
17
if you can answer that
18
A.
Well the best way Bill I can answer
19
your question is according to this material safety
20
data sheet that I have in front of me it says that
21
it was tested yes
It was tested or else they would
22
not have put that statement down
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MS GOLDEN Maybe they made it up
24
Q.
Okay
But aside from that are you aware
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Dale A. Fronk
56
of any testing of the Orton packaging material that
the cones came in the vermiculite for the
tremolite
A.
Not to my knowledge
Q.
All right Did Orton retain any of the
packaging material that went along with its cones in
the company warehouse or facility so that they could
be tested
10
now
MS GOLDEN
Okay
Are we talking about
|
11
Q.
Yeah now from back then
12
A.
I guess what you're asking me is would we
13
have vermiculite from 1963
14
MS GOLDEN Did you retain any
15
THE WITNESS Did we retain any
16
MS GOLDEN Yeah I think you should
17
listen to the question again
18
Madam Court Reporter could you read
19
back the question
20
Record read
21
MS GOLDEN
And then we established a
22
time frame
But anyways have you ever retained any
23
vermiculite in your warehouse
24
A.
Not to my knowledge
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
57
MR LEVIN All right You know unfortunately on the PMK issue I wasn't involved in this but Ray tells me that this was the witness that was supposed to be produced as the person most knowledgeable on these subjects but you're telling me that he's not being produced as the person most knowledgeable on various subjects that were contained
in our PMK notice
And I'm going to leave that issue on the
10
table to be resolved by somebody other than me since
11
I was not involved in any of those conversations
12
MS GOLDEN Okay I will just state on
13
the record that I received five PMK notices which we
14
objected to and I had a conversation with Ray on the
15
phone and I said
I have these five notices
I
16
don't know what you are doing because you aren't even
17
allowed to have five notices and you tell me who you
18
want for deposition
19
And he named a few people including
20
Dale And I said Okay You don't have to
21
produce -- you don't have to subpoena him I will
22
produce Dale for you and you can ask him questions
23
And he did send a depo notice for Dale
24
MR LEVIN All right well --
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
MS GOLDEN
58
So as a courtesy to you and
the Levin firm because Mr. Fronk would have had to be
subpoenaed he does not work for Orton anymore in fact anybody else on our PMK would have had to have been subpoenaed I voluntarily made him present for you for his deposition
MR LEVIN All right Well we'll see
where that is
MS GOLDEN That's fine
10
MR LEVIN
All right
I have no further
11
questions
12
Discussion off the record
13
THE VIDEOGRAPHER Off the record
14
The deposition concluded at 2:06 p.m.
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Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
59
State of Ohio
County of
SS
I Dale A. Fronk do hereby certify that I have read the foregoing transcript of my deposition given on Thursday May 8 2008 that together with the correction page attached hereto noting changes in
form or substance if any it is true and correct
Dale A. Fronk
I do hereby certify that the foregoing
transcript of the deposition of Dale A. Fronk was
10
submitted to the witness for reading and signing
that after he had stated to the undersigned Notary
11
Public that he had read and examined his deposition
he signed the same in my presence on the
day
12
of
, 2008
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My commission expires
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Notary Public
F
Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481
Dale A. Fronk
60 CERTIFICATE
State of Ohio
County of Franklin
SS
I Rosemary F. Anderson Notary Public in and for the State of Ohio duly commissioned and qualified certify that the within named Dale A.
Fronk was by me duly sworn to testify to the whole truth in the cause aforesaid that the testimony was taken down by me in stenotypy in the presence of said
witness afterwards transcribed upon a computer that the foregoing is a true and correct transcript of the testimony given by said witness taken at the time and place in the foregoing caption specified and completed without adjournment
10
I certify that I am not a relative employee
or attorney of any of the parties hereto or of any
11
attorney or counsel employed by the parties or
financially interested in the action
12
IN WITNESS WHEREOF I have hereunto set my
13
hand and affixed my seal of office at Columbus Ohio
on this 13th day of May 2008
14
Anderson Anderson Rosemary Ikst 15 Rosemary F. Anderson
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Professional Reporter and
Notary Public in and for the
17
State of Ohio
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My commission expires April 5 2009
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8139
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Armstrong & Okey Inc. Columbus Ohio 614-224-9481