Document YjeOYQxqG6vO5N0v3xKbeJwyE

Xl.UM . UNION IN CARBIDE OORI NOINCU PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT Vi'J-DOQXn UNION CARBIDE CHEMICALS COMPANY IMTITUTI PLANT P. 0. BOX 2831, CHARLESTON, WEST VIRGINIA u inuI Mr. S. C. Giambruno o 23 October 1963 iowNm Industrial Relations Or%iiMHi' o*p. Medical Department - Plant 512 Anwrinf Mir dlti Cap? * Mr. L. N. Dickinson Mr. N. S. Eastman Mr. R. A. Huber Mr. B. F. King Dr. E. M. Best Dr. C. U. Demehl Mr. J. W. Perry sw Insulation Block Dust Survey Mr. P. E. Henry Construction Insulation Shop Mr. R. A. Neal Mr. D. R. Mathany'^'^KL Plant 511 ........................ -- Mr. N. H. Ketcham Mr. L. B. Weddell - Safety Dept. Enclosed is a very excellent and very complete Industrial Hygiene report on the potential hazardousness of "Thermobestos", "Kaylo" and "Carey-Temp" insulation blocks which have been processed in the Construction Department's Insulation Shop. The report points out definitely that "Thermobestos" and "Carey-Temp" insulation blocks cannot be fabricated safely with existing equipment, but that "Kaylo" insulation blocks can be fabricated safely. Mr. Peele's recommendations are quite definite and I am sure that you will wish to comply with them. I believe this particular project should be considered completed. If there are any comments, suggestions or criticism, please direct these to me. Very truly yours, RJSihl Enclosures R. /J./Sexton, M. D. Plant Medical Director INDUSTRIAL HYGIENE SURVEY Construction Insulation Shop - Building 511-2018 Report 63-IH-3-G-1 SUMMARY: The Construction Insulation Shop (Building 2018), Plant 512 location, routinely fabricates large quantities of insulation block with ventilated band saws* This more efficient procedure of fabrication has replaced an older, time honored, practice of using simple handsaws to do the job. However, it has, at the same time, created a health hazard resulting from exposure to excessive concentrations of atmospheric dust. The hazard to health has been evaluated and reported previously* with the result that one material, "Thermsbestos" was clearly identified with the hazard (exceeded TLV) and another material, "Kaylo", was safe to fabricate (within TLV). The present report (the third on this subject) was initiated in an attempt to supply answers to three basic questions: (1) was there any error in the original evaluation of "Kaylo", (2) can supplementary exhaust ventilation reduce the "Thermobestos" hazard to within safe acceptable limits, and (3) is a hazard to health produced in the fabrication of a third material, i.e., "CareyTemp". The information uncovered in the present evaluation reveals the following facts: 1. "Kaylo" insulation blocks can be safely fabricated with the existing equipment. 2. "Thermobestos" insulation blocks cannot be safely fabricated at the present time with existing equipment, but could be safely fabricated if the exhaust ventilation is improved. 3. The TLV (Threshold Limit Value) for "Carey-Temp" is identical with that established for both "Kaylo" and ''Thermobestos", i.e., 20 mppcf (million particles per cubic foot) of air. 4. "Carey-Temp" also cannot be safely fabricated with the existing equipment, but could be if Improvements are made in the ventilation system. 5. The original "downdraft" exhaust ventilation rates, on either band saw, do not meet the recommended capture velocity rate of 4,000 fpm (feet per minute). 6. The supplementary "overhead" exhaust ventilation on both band saws, is an improvement and the rates do meet the recommended capture velocity rate of 4,000 fpm. * I.H. Reports G2-IH-l-G-l'3nd'62-IH-2-G-1 2. INTRODUCTION: A report, submitted in March 1962, stated that an inhalation hazard to health was produced in the Construction Insulation Shop whenever "Thermobestos" insulation blocks ware fabricated. In July 1962, a second survey was conducted in order to evaluate thre'e new "Thermobestos" materials which had bean supplied by the manufacturer for evaluation. This survey revealed that, although the inhalation hazard to health had been substantially reduced from that encountered during the first survey, the atmospheric dust concentrations being emitted during fabrication of these new products, were still in excess of the Threshold Limit Values as designated in the first report. Therefore, all recommendations should remain exactly as stated in the initial report of March 1962. The manufacturer and Union Carbide's Purchasing Department expressed a great deal of concern about the findings revealed in this initial report when it was uncovered that the manufacturer's Research Department also had evaluated these materials and was not able to produce results comparable with those contained in the report of March 1962. That is to say, the atmospheric dust concentrations reported by the manufacturer, when processing "Thermobestos" insulation blocks, were substantially higher than those revealed in Report 62-IH-l-G-l. This revelation disclosed the need for a more extensive evaluation of this problem so as to resolve all differences of opinion relative to the atmospheric dust exposures in this environment. This decision in favor of further evaluation, promoted the production of a much more extensive study than was originally planned, a study which eventually encompassed three separate intervals of dust sampling, analysis, and evalution before all of the unanswered health problems could be resolved, DISCUSSION: These three investigations were actually initiated for the general purposes of both clarification and identification - purposely for' clarification of the actual hazard to health (if any) connected with the fabrication of three different insulation materials and identification of acceptable measures for use in reducing all exposures to within safe acceptable limits. However, each investigation occurred for clearly identifiable reasons as explained below: The investigation of 24 Jan 63 was conducted because: 1. The Johns Manville Company submitted a report, compiled by their Research Department, which contained data that conflicted with that submitted by this department in Report 62-IH-l-G-l. 2. This department desired to clarify the reasons for the discrepancy between the two reports and to identify positively, the actual conditions as they exist in the working environment., The investigation of 25 and 26 Feb 63 was conducted because: 1. In the preceding investigation, the two insulation materials in question, i.e., "Thermobestos" and "Kaylo" were evaluated inadvertently during the same afternoon, a procedure which was not in keeping with an attempt to stimulate the conditions of the original report. In the original report, each material was evaluated on separate occasions so as to preclude the possibility that any one sample might contain dust produced by both operations. 3. 2. The "Kaylo" insulation material had to be re-evaluated. 3. The Construction Insulation Shop requested that a new insulation material,-'i.e., "Carey-Temp", be evaluated. The investigation of 6 Mar 1963 was conducted because 1. The Construction Insulation Shop recently had installed supplementary exhaust ventilation on both band saws and desired to know if this additional control method would reduce the "Thenrobestos" dust concentrations to within safe acceptable limits. A comparison of the reasons listed above discloses that each was different in content and concerned actually with different investigations but all were interrelated in part, i.e., each was concerned with the same environment, the same location and the same specific methods of fabrication. Consequently, the sampling procedures, utilized in each instance,basically were identical and in accordance with the following condensed explanation: First: Two methods of fabrication, i.e., cutting and edging, and cutting a radius, were evaluated at each band saw since this is standard practice followed in the fabrication of any insulation material. Second: The environmental conditions of both preceding reports, i.e., 62-IH-l-G-l and 62-IH-2-G-1, were duplicated in that all outside.doors to the building were closed. Third: Each dust sample was collected in the operator's breathing . zone as he.worked in the fabrication process. Fourth: The complete fabrication of "Carey-Temp" insulation blocks was evaluated in two ways: First, with all available ventilation in operation and second,with only the-original downdraft ventilation in operation. Specialized sampling procedures were utilized also during portions of the latter two investigations, in an endeavor to evaluate the supplementary exhaust ventilation system which had been installed as recommended. These were as follows: First: The complete fabrication of "Therrnobestos" insulation blocks was evaluated in two' ways: First, with all available ventilation in operation and second,with only the original downdraft ventilation in operation. Second: The complete fabrication of "Carey-Temp" insulation blocks was evaluated while utilizing all available exhaust ventilation. 4'. It is necessary to explain that "Kaylo" insulation blocks were not included as a part of this evaluation since the initial investigation, (performed without supplementary exhaust ventilation) disdosed only ona exposure exceeding the TLV of 20 mppcf of air ftnd, tharafore, it could be assumed that any ventilation that might be added should be more than adequate in controlling the hazard. EVALUATIONS: A. Atmospheric dust exposures: 1. The concentrations of inhalable dust, present in the breathing zone when fabricating any one of the three types of insulation materials, were determined in accordance with the following procedure: a. Three locations and nine different conditions of exposure, as described on Page 9, were selected for evaluation. b. Atmospheric dust samples were collected through the use of the impingement* principle of air sampling. The midget impinger apparatus (described on Page 5 ) served as the instrument of use. c. The concentration of dust collected in each sample was established through the use of standard light field microscopic counting techniques as described on Page 5, 2. 'The size of the particles of inhaled dust was determined, for both "Kaylo" and "Thermobestos", in the initial survey of 1962 in accordance with the procedure described on Page 5 . Consequently, no effort was expended to repeat the determination for any of the insulation materials since the sawing techniques as well as equipment, i.e., saw blades with three teeth to the inch operating at 2200 linear feet per minute, were identical on both occasions and, therefore, the size of the particles should not beexpected to deviate to any great degree from the prior recorded values. 3. The composition of the dust, i.e., percentage crystalline free silica or percentage asbestos was determined for both "Kaylo" and "Thermobestos" in the initial survey of 1962. Consequently, no effort was expended to repeat this determination since the materials used on both occasions, were reported as being identical in composition. However, since the composition of "Carey-Temp" was not established at any earlier date it was deemed imperative that it be determined and reported at this time. This was accomplished as described on Page 5. B. Local exhaust ventilation controls: 1. The velocity of the air being exhausted through the ventilation hood openings on both band saws (#1 and #2) was measured through the use of a Model 60 Anemotherm air meter. 2. Four variable conditions of interest were evaluated: a. The velocity of air through the downdraft hood on both saws with all other hoods on the system closed off. * This means to strike against, as (in this application) the striking or dashing of atmospheric dust particles against the bottom of a snail impinger flask containing a specific volume of dust-free water as a collecting medium. s. b. The velocity of air through the downdraft hood on both saws with all other hoods on the system open. c. The velocity of air through the supplementary overhead hood on both saws with all other hoods on the system closed off. d. The velocity of air through the supplementary overhead hood on both saws with all other hoods on the system open. PROCEDURES: Both sampling and analytical methods were as follows: SAMPLING: 1. All samples used in determining the actual concentrations in air were collected with a midget impinger apparatus, sampling 0.1 cubic feet of air per minute through impinger flasks containing 15 milliliters of double distilled dust-free water. 2. All samples used in obtaining particle size distribution data were collected on millipore filters connected to a small battery-operated pump. ANALYTICAL: 1. Each dust sample was evaluated through the use of a counting procedure referred to as the light field microscopic counting technique.* 2. The particle sizing techniques were derived from two separate sources. First, the sample was prepared for sizing in accordance with a permanent mounting method.+ Second, the actual sizing was accomplished in accordance with the recommended technique depicting the use of a filar micrometer and a standard microscope while using both the 43X (high and dry) and the 97X (oil immersion) objectives.+ 3. The. evaluation and free silica determination of "Carey-Temp" material was accomplished through the use of two methods. First, through information supplied by Mr. E. D. Ermenc, Director of Research of the Philip Carey Manufacturing Company and second, through contracted analysis performed by Mr. Thomas M. Durkan, Chief Chemist for the Trudeau Foundation, Inc., Saranak Lake, N. Y. RESULTS: See Pages 8, 9, 10 and 11. * Drinker and Hatch: "Industrial Dust", 2nd Edition, pp. 152-153, McGraw-Hill Book Company, Inc. , New York, 1954. + Pautus, H. J., Talvitie, N. A., Fraser, D. A., and Keenan, R. G.: "Use of Membrane Filters in Air Sampling", A.I.H.A. Quarterly, Vol. 18, p. 269, September, 1957. t Drinker and Hatch: "Industrial Dust", 2nd Edition, pp. 166-179, McGraw-Hill Book Company, Inc., New York, 1954. 6. CONCLUSIONS: Relative to dust exposures from Graph. #1 Tables on Pages 8 9: 1. "Thermobestos" insulation blocks should not be fabricated when using only the original downdraft exhaust ventilation. 2. "Kaylo" insulation blocks could be fabricated safely when using only the original downdraft exhaust ventilation if existing leaks, observed on the #1 band saw, are corrected. 3. "Kaylo" insulation blocks definitely may be safely fabricated when using the entire exhaust ventilation facilities now available, i.e., hoods above the blocks as well as below. From Graph #2 Tables on Pages 8 9: 1. Methods of handling "Thermobestos" blocks (preparatory to sawing) and scraps (after sawing) contribute greatly to specific individual exposures as demonstrated by the following facts: a. The fabrication process, which always begins at the #2 band saw with the simple cutting of each 18" x 36" x 4" block into three smaller blocks about 18" x 12" x 4", is normally the least dusty of all the fabrication operations as revealed by the samples taken on 24 Jan 1963. b. However, on 6 Mar 1963, this operation was revealed as being one of the dustiest, regardless of the ventilation being used. c. There was only one major variable between the samples taken on the two dates, i.e., the method of handling the blocks preparatory to sawing. Consideration of the procedure used on these dates reveals: (1) that on 24 Jan 1963, the blocks were rolled up to the saw after having been removed from their shipping cartons and stacked on a "dolly" for easy individual removal and (2) on 6 Mar 1963, the blocks were not removed from their shipping cartons until needed by the worker. A large amount of dust is produced when blocks are removed individually from the cartons as a result of the natural abrasion produced when one block is pulled over the surface of the other. Consequently, the dust concentrations on this date at this location were greater than normal. 2. The supplementary overhead ventilation (added since the time of the preceding two reports) does successfully reduce the dust exposures. However, it does not reduce "Thermobestos" dust exposures to within safe acceptable limits when cutting radii. From Graph #3 Table on Page 9: 1. "Carey-Temp" dust concentrations for each exposure was substantially greater than the comparable "Thermobestos" dust concentrations and in excess of even the most lenient TLV established for human exposures, i.e., 50 mppcf of air. 7. 2. The existing exhaust ventilation system as installed on both band saws is incapable of reducing the dust hazard, associated with the fabrication of "Carey-Temp", to within safe acceptable limits, i.e,, 20 mppcf of air. Relative to the exhaust ventilation system: 1. The duct velocity in the downdraft ventilation system on both band saws is far below the recommended value of 4000 fpm. 2. The duct velocity in the overhead ventilation system on both band saws is equal to or more than the recommended value of 4000 fpm. 3. The velocity in the downdraft ventilation systems for both band saws could be increased by patching all holes, leaks, etc., now in existence. RECOMMENDATIONS: 1. Do not fabricate 18" x 36" x 4" "Carey-Temp" or "Thermobestos" insulation materials unless: a. The atmospheric dust problem can be reduced to below 20 mppcf of air through the use of improved ventilation techniques or repairs to the existing system, or b. The manufacturers of the two makes of insulation materials are able to produce a product which will not release, upon fabrication with a band saw, dust concentrations in excess of 20 mppcf of air. REP:hl 23 October 1963 Submitted by: T: r."FeeTe~ Industrial Hygienist INDUSTRIAL HYGIENE SURVEY Evaluation of Atmospheric Dust Conditions at the Construction Insulation Shop Table #1 Atmospheric Dust Concentration Data Collected When Using Only Partial Ventilation,i.e., Only Below the Blocks 8 Date Feb 63 Jan 63 Mar 63 Feb 63 Jan 63 Mar 63 Cutting S Edging Insulation Blocks Type of Material Kaylo Thermobestos If Kaylo Thermobestos ir Description of Location #1, i.e., South Side of the 2 Band Saw ^ II II 11 II ft II II II H II II 11 H II H #2, i.e., South Side of the #1 Band Saw 2 ii ti ii ii H it H ii g2 u it ii ii ii ii ii n Concentration in mppcf 9.32 10.00 51.50 17.92 26.36 42.70 Cutting a Radius on Insulation Blocks Date Type of Material Description of Location lar 62 -- Feb 63 lar 62 Ian 63 lar 63 lar 62 eb 63 lar 62 an 63 ar 63 Kaylo II Thermobestos II II Kaylo It Thermobestos II 11 . #3, i.e., South Side of the n Band Saw #3, II 11 11 11 II ii If ft n, #3, II II II II II II ti It ft If If ft fl it ft fl #3, II II It 11 It it It ft #4, #4, #4, loit 6 ^ ii South 11 11 SidIIe It of 11 II the 11 (1 #i ii ii Band If It SaItw 11 #4, #4, n it II If II If it If If If II If If ii II II Concentration in mppcf 17.10 3.39 101.40 69.59 36.82 3.06 29.35 83.30 66.69 70.00 late iar 63 Feb 63 iar 63 Feb 63 Table #2 Atmospheric Dust Concentration Data Collected When Using All Available Ventilation, i.e., Both Above 5 Below the Blocks Cutting & Edging Insulation Blocks 9. Type of Material Thermobestos Carey-Temp Thermobestos Carey-Temp Description of L1ocation #la,.i.e., South Side of the #2 Band Saw II " II II , II II II H H #2a, i.e., South Side of the #1 Band Saw " " ' " 11 " " " 11 Concentration in mppcf 30.20 51.70 17.59 68.20 i Cutting a Radius on Insulation Blocks Type of late Material iar 63 Thermobestos iar 63 Feb 63 Thermobestos Carey-Temp Feb 63 ,. ....Carey-Temp * . Description of Location #3a, i.e., South Side of the #2 Band Saw #4a, i.e., South Side of the #1 Band Saw II II II II 1)1 II H II #5a, i.e., North Side of the #1 Band Saw Concentration in mppcf 22.42 51.70 85.40 100.90 Index for Graphs #1, #2 & #3 #1 #2 = = South It Side If #2 #1 Band II Saw It - Cutting Edging Blocks " - Ventilation II Only II Below II n = II m = II If #2 If #1 If ff If - Cutting a Radius __ If - 11 I* II _ If If ft If If If #la #2a = #3a = II If It If #2 If #1 11 n tl It It It It tt - Cutting Blocks - - Edging " - Cutting a Radius _ If II ft Both Above 6 Below II It 11 If tl 11 11 11 #4a = If fl #1 II If _ W It II _ If II II II II #5a = North Side #1 Band Saw - Cutting a Radius - Ventilation Both Above 6 Below Trial # 1 2 3 Table #3 Determination of Percentage Crystalline Free Silica Present in "Thermobestos", "Kaylo" "Carey-Temp" as Quartz by the "Talvitie" Method 10. "Thermobestos" (As Contained in Report 62-IH-l-G-l) Wx in Grams W2 in Grams W3 in Grams % Free S1O2 0.5002 0.5000 0.5002 0.0390 0.0347 0.0396 0.0069 0.0068 0.0082 Average Percentage Crystalline Free S02 = 6.4 6.42 5.58 6.28 "Kaylo" (As Contained in Report 62-IH-l-G-l) Trial # 1 2 3 in Grams W2 in Grams W3 in Grams % Free S]_C>2 0.5000 0.5000 0.5000 0.0807 0.0730 0.0563 0.0433 0.0364 0.0190 7.48 7.32 7.46 Average Percentage Crystalline Free S1O2 = 7.4 "Carey-Temp" (As Reported by Mr. Thoms M. Durkan) 4 October 1963 Components Soluble in Hcl Other Components Soluble in Phosphoric Acid Percentage Crystalline Free as Quartz 10.8% 88.8% 99.6% 00.4% Table #4 Ventilation Rates on Two Band Saws 11. Date Hood Being Band Saw Checked Description of Condition Ventilation Rate in fpm 25 Feb 63 6 Mar 63 25 Feb 63 6 Mar 63 25 Feb 63 6 Mar 63 25 Feb 63 ' Mar 63 25 Feb 63 6 Iter 63 n n n #2 #2 #2 n #2 #2 #2 Downdraft It It it it it Overhead If ft If Only Downdraft System in Operation If It ft tt tl Downdraft & Overhead System in Operation II It It It It Every Hood in the System Open If tt ft tt If tt Downdraft S Overhead System in Operation tt tt tt ft If tt Every Hood in the System Open If tt ft ft It If 1500 1450 1200 1200 950 900 6500 4800 4000 25 Feb 63 6 Mar 63 25 Feb 63 6 Mar 63 25 Feb 63 6 Mar 63 25 Feb 63 6 Mar 63 25 Feb 63 6 Mar 63 #1 #1 #1 #1 #1 #1 #1 #1 1 #1 DownII draft If II It It OverhIf ead ft fl Onftly DownIf draft Systftem inft Operttation Downdraft & Overhead System in Operation ft ft tt ft If tt Every Hood in the System Open It tl If tl tt tt Downdraft 6 Overhead System in Operation If fl tt tt It tt Every Hood in the System Open tt It tt tt tt tt 2100 1500 1600 1150 1100 5500 4500 4200 oo o DUST EXPOSURES WHILE FABRICATING KAYLO & THERMOBESTOS INSULATION BLOCKS WITH ONLY DOWNDRAFT VENTILATlOf oo o JTV jo jodclui ux SUOT I #Q B and Saw #1 Band Saw #2 Band Saw #1 Band Saw s oz 2 Zz 0 UI > S ft U) Z UI </) o 29 K orv jo joddui ur uoxjpajuaouoo DUST EXPOSURES WHILE FABRICATING B u d Saw # 1 Band Saw #2 Band Saw # i Band Saw uo 5`" jny jo joddtu ur uox^pa^uaouoo f l f \Band Saw #1 B u d Saw #2 Band Saw #1 Band Saw Band Saw UC14-J UNION CARBIDK ICN UNION CARBIDK CHKMICALS COMPANY institute plant p. o. box 283i. charleston, west virgin. Sexton, M.D. Medical Department - Plant 512 Cw * Mr. L. N. Dickinson Mr. N. S. Eastman Mr. S. c. Giambruno Mr. R. A. Huber Mr. B. F. King Dr. E. M. Best Dr. C. U. Demehl Mr. J. W. Mr; P. E. Mr, R. A. Mr. D. R. Mr. N. H. Mr. L. B. Mr. F. G. Dmtt 29 November 1963 *>** Industrial Hygiene - Plant 512 Aiuwarlitf ItMtr All Construction Insulation Shop Building 511-2018 In accordance with Mr. P. E. Henry's request of Thursday, 7 Nov 63, I have investigated the fabrication of "Carey-Temp" pipe covering. This operation is carried out with band saws and, on the basis of visual observation alone, it has been decided that there should be no health hazard associated with this particular type of operation. This investigation took place during the morning of Thursday, 14 Nov 63, in the company of Mr. K. B. Lanham, Foreman of the Fabrication Insulation Shop, and consisted merely of observing the process of the cutting of half sections of eight inch diameter "Carey-Temp" pipe covering with a band saw. No effort was made, at that time, to determine the actual concentration of atmospheric dust being produced during this operation. It should not be necessary to perform this specific test so long as working conditions are not altered appreciably from those observed on this date. However, a more thorough evaluation of these conditions will be performed if (1) it is`specifically requested, (2) employees begin complaining about reactions such as nose bleed, etc., (3) a thicker material, i.e.,more than two inches in diameter is substituted for fabrication, or (4) the fabrication shop begins cutting each curved half-section from large blocks of "Carey-Temp". Very truly yours, REP:hl R. E. Peele Industrial Hygienist tffCitai I M T 1-. r IJ AL COf,'9E!j!>Of'iONO t-. HEMICALS UiV I S I 0 N Mr. K. Lonriura ..'.sulat Lon h-u.ncation mop bldg hi - koom 2018 e<*y * i w <w. Comer ford : u*. r. K, ! Villon hr. ih l. henry .* *.A, ii. Ketcham Mr. K. Math,any id J. ..exton Mr. i rank bnat her Mr. L. b. Weddell ['red Willi.j.rs (snrurt ru: ) . a <: ^ HARliih H, AllI /ivGiNIA ?i33n "' 24 August IDoL `j'u c-'-j u..' industrial IP,,'giene - riant Li? Antnrtj %lf*i n%J >.*>, XJLT CAMTU'V OF "C/*J IIY-TL IP" WfULATIOh he have received results from the dust sampling series conducted In your sftop wnile the read grinder machine was being used to cut "Carey-Te;:.p" insulation block. 'ihese results indicate that the hazard to health fran (lust exposure during tms operation is very slight ana should not present, any serious respiratory problems tc the machine operator if conducted in a similar manner to the to , runs. Luring our' conversation, you mentioned that you anticipate ir -ving the machine to anotner location in thi slop and also makin,7. certain modification.. to in.: atthine and dust exnaust system. It is our reconnendation trat these clianiy be curied out to tneir completion in the near fut'ire so as to further add to me -------- ---- adequacy of the system....... in order1 tc completely finalize tnis investigation, vs would like i .a. another series of sampling when more ''Carey-Teno" insulation is available and aitei' tne above a .anger. and modifications have beer, sale. If, in the interim period, you have any quest sons reim ive .uses, please notify this department. these Very.truly yours, ' <\ \v -n .1 / ). f). Young Jiff: hi