Document YQExYw8QnM9rLLxDrbMeYaXN

1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES 3 DEPARTMENT NO. 31 HON. G. KEITH WISOT, JUDGE 4 5 TRANSWESTERN PIPELINE COMPANY, A DELAWARE CORPORATION, 6 PLAINTIFF, 7 VS . 8 MONSANTO COMPANY AND DOES 1 9 THROUGH 200, INCLUSIVE, 10 DEFENDANTS. 11 ) ) ) ) ) ) NO. BC 026959 ) ) ) ) ) ) 12 13 REPORTER7 S DAILY TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 14 DECEMBER 16, 1993 15 VOLUME 21 16 PAGES 3150 TO 3305 17 18 APPEARANCES: 19 FOR PLAINTIFF: 20 21 22 SHEARMAN & STERLING BY: JAMES P. TALLON, ESQ. & JANET M. GRADY, ESQ. & JERRY MARKS, ESQ. 725 SOUTH FIGUEROA STREET 21ST FLOOR LOS ANGELES, CA 90017 2 3 FOR DEFENDANT: 24 25 26 PREUSS, WALKER & SHANAGHER BY: CHARLES F. PREUSS, ESQ. & DONALD F. ZIMMER, ESQ. & ALAN LAZARUS, ESQ. 595 MARKET STREET 16 TH FLOOR SAN FRANCISCO, CA 94105 27 DAVID A. SALYER, CSR #4410 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 28 111 NORTH HILL STREET LOS ANGELES, CA 90012 HARTOLDMON0039912 1 INDEX FOR VOLUME 21 PAGES 3150 THROUGH 3305 2 3 4 THURSDAY, DECEMBER 16, 1993 A.M. 3150 5 P.M. 3232 6 7 8 DEFENSE WITNESSESDIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS 9 10 BRADFORD, LARRY 3167 3218 3263 11 CLAY, CARL 3268 12 13 DEPO READ 14 BARBER, RICHARD (CONT'D) 3150 15 16 EXHIBITS___________ FOR IDENTIFICATION IN EVIDENCE 17 75 - MEMO 3193 18 206 - DOCUMENT 3195 19 582 - DOCUMENT 3206 20 791 - GRAPH 3212 2 1 224 - MEMO 3226 22 60 - SUMMARY 3256 23 64 - REPORT 3258 24 231 - SUMMARY 3261 25 236 - REPORT 3265 26 27 28 HARTOLDMON0039913 3267 1 TRANSWESTERN A CUSTOMER OF MONSANTO? 2 A WELL, TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE AT THIS 3 MINUTE, THE ANSWER IS YES. 4 BECAUSE IT SHOWS HERE WE SHIPPED THEM 5 PRODUCT. 6 BUT I NEVER CONSIDERED, NEVER KNEW THEY 7 WERE A CUSTOMER. 8 MR. PREUSS: THANK YOU, SIR. 9 THE COURT: ANYTHING FURTHER, MR. TALLON? 10 MR. TALLON: NO. 11 THE COURT: MAY THIS WITNESS NOW BE EXCUSED 12. MR. PREUSS? 13 MR. PREUSS: YES. 14 THE COURT: AND MR. TALLON? 15 MR. TALLON: YES. 16 THE COURT: THANK YOUFOR YOUYOUR ATTENDANCE 17 AT THIS TRIAL. 18 YOU ARE EXCUSED FROM FURTHER ATTENDANCE. 19 THE WITNESS: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. 20 THE COURT: A FURTHER WITNESS, MR. PREUSS? 2 1 MR. ZIMMER: YOUR HONOR, MONSANTO WOULD CALL 22 CARL CLAY. 23 THE CLERK: RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND, SIR, TO BE 24 SWORN. 25 CARL CLAY, 26 CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE DEFENDANT, MONSANTO, WAS 27 SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: 28 /// HARTOLDMON0039914 3268 1 THE WITNESS: I DO. 2 THE CLERK: PLEASE, BE SEATED. 3 PLEASE STATE AND SPELL YOUR NAME FOR THE 4 RECORD. 5 THE WITNESS: CARL, C-A-R-L, MIDDLE INITIAL L. 6 CLAY, C-L-A-Y. 7 8 DIRECT EXAMINATION 9 BY MR. ZIMMER: 10 Q SORRY TO JUMP IN THERE BEFORE YOU GOT 11 YOUR NAME OUT. 12 HOW ARE YOU? 13 A OKAY. 14 Q WHERE DO YOU LIVE, SIR? 15 A HUDSON, OHIO. 16 Q HOW LONG HAVE YOU LIVED THERE? 17 A ABOUT A YEAR. 18 Q ARE YOU MARRIED, SIR? 19 A YES, SIR. 20 Q DO YOU HAVE AFAMILY? 21 A YES . 22 Q CHILDREN? 23 A YES, TWO CHILDREN. 24 Q GOOD. WHERE DO YOU WORK, SIR? 2 5 A WORK FOR MYLES, INCORPORATED IN AKRON, 26 OHIO. 27 Q ARE YOU A FORMER EMPLOYEE OF MONSANTO? 28 A YES, I AM. HARTOLDMONOQ39915 3269 1 Q HOW LONG DID YOU WORK WITH MONSANTO? 2 A FROM '68 TO '77. 3 Q WAS THAT YOUR FIRST JOB OUT OF SCHOOL? 4 A YES, IT WAS. 5 Q COULD YOU TELL THE JURY BRIEFLY ABOUT 6 YOUR EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND, BEGINNING WITH HIGH 7 SCHOOL. 8 A I GRADUATED FROM SANTA FE HIGH SCHOOL IN 9 ATLANTA, GEORGIA AND PROCEEDED TO GO TO COLLEGE AT 10 TWO SCHOOLS, ONE IN SPRINGFIELD, MISSOURI. 11 MY DEGREES CAME FROM UNIVERSITY OF 12 GEORGIA. I HAVE THREE DEGREES. 13 I HAVE ONE DEGREE IN PSYCHOLOGY, ONE IN 14 CHEMISTRY AND A MASTER'S IN BUSINESS. 15 I GRADUATED IN '68. 16 Q WHAT POSITION, SIR, DID YOU HOLD AT 17 MONSANTO WHEN YOU FIRST BEGAN WORK IN '68? 18 A I CAME IN AS A SALES TRAINEE, SALES 19 REPRESENTATIVE. 20 Q AND WHERE WERE YOU BASED AT THAT TIME? 21 A ST. LOUIS. 22 Q WHAT OTHER POSITIONS, IF ANY, DID YOU 23 HOLD WITHIN THE COMPANY? 24 A THAT WAS IT. 25 IT WENT FROM SALES REPRESENTATIVE TO 26 SENIOR SALES REPRESENTATIVE. 27 Q OKAY. AND WERE FUNCTIONAL FLUIDS AMONG 28 THE PRODUCTS THAT YOU SOLD FOR MONSANTO? HARTOLDMON0039916 3270 1 A AT THE BEGINNING THOSE WERE THE ONLY 2 PRODUCTS. 3 Q WAS TEXAS EASTERN TRANSMISSION COMPANY 4 ONE OF YOUR CUSTOMERS? 5 A WHEN I TOOK OVER THE SALES TERRITORY IN 6 ST. LOUIS AND THE HOUSTON SALES TERRITORY, YES, THEY 7 WERE IN THAT TERRITORY. 8 Q WHEN DID YOU FIRST BECOME ACQUAINTED WITH 9 TEXAS EASTERN AS A CUSTOMER? 10 A IT WAS -- I DON'T RECALL SPECIFICALLY BUT 11 IT WAS LATE '68, EARLY '69. 12 Q AT ANY POINT IN TIME WHILE YOU WERE 13 WORKING FOR MONSANTO DID YOU EVER HEAR OF A COMPANY 14 CALLED TRANSWESTERN PIPELINE COMPANY? 15 A NO, I DID NOT. 16 Q HAVE YOU SINCE? 17 A YES . 18 Q WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME YOU HEARD THE 19 NAME "TRANSWESTERN"? 20 A WE HAD A DEPOSITION. IT WAS BROUGHT 21 BEFORE US. 22 I WAS ASKED AT THAT TIME IF I HAD EVER 23 HEARD OF TRANSWESTERN PIPELINE. 24 Q WAS THAT YOUR DEPOSITION IN THIS CASE? 2 5 A THAT'S CORRECT. 26 Q SIR, YOU MENTIONED YOU WORKED AT A 27 COMPANY CALLED MYLES, NOW; IS THAT CORRECT? 28 A YES. THAT'S CORRECT. HARTOLDMON0039917 3271 1 Q TELL ME, WHAT DO YOU DO NOW? . 2 A MYLES, WE HAVE TAKEN THE NAME, IT USED TO 3 BE TO MO BAY CORPORATION. 4 WE TOOK THE NAME THE FIRST PART OF '91. 5 WE TOOK THE NAME FROM MYLES LABORATORIES 6 WHICH MAKES ALKA-SELTZER, ONE-A-DAY VITAMINS AND SOS 7 PADS . 8 MYLES INCORPORATED IS A WHOLLY OWNED 9 SUBSIDIARY OF BAUER OUT OF GERMANY. I WORK FOR A 10 SPECIFIC DIVISION IN THE RUBBER DIVISION. 11 WE, IN THAT DIVISION, MARKET POLYMERS AND 12 RUBBER CHEMICALS. 13 AND POLYMERS ARE THE RUBBER THAT GOES 14 INTO TIRES, THINGS LIKE THIS. 15 THE CHEMICALS ARE WHAT IS THE SALT OR 16 PEPPER OF WHAT YOU USE TO CURE THE RUBBER. 17 I'M SPECIFICALLY INVOLVED AS DIRECTOR OF 18 MARKETING FOR RUBBER CHEMICALS, FOR THAT DIVISION, 19 FOR NORTH AMERICA. 20 Q ARE ANY OF THE PRODUCTS YOU DEAL WITH NOW 21 AT MYLES PRODUCTS THAT YOU HAD SOLD SIMILAR VERSIONS 22 OF WHILE YOU WERE WITH MONSANTO? 2 3 A NOT SPECIFICALLY. 24 IT'S INTERESTING. 25 WE MANUFACTURE RUBBER CHEMICALS, 26 ANTIOXIDANTS AND ACCELERATORS, TO CURE UP AND FINISH 27 TIRES, THINGS LIKE THIS. 28 IT'S IRONIC I DID NOT WORK IN THE RUBBER HARTOLDMONOQ39918 3272 1 CHEMICALS GROUP IN MONSANTO. BECAUSE NOW MONSANTO IN 2 THE NORTH AMERICAN CONTINENT, NORTH AMERICA, PERIOD, 3 IS MY MAJOR COMPETITOR AND ALSO MY MAJOR COMPETITOR 4 WORLDWIDE IN RUBBER CHEMICALS. 5 THE COURT: SIR, YOU ARE SPEAKING VERY QUICKLY. 6 COULD YOU MAKE A POINT TO TALK A LITTLE 7 MORE SLOWLY. 8 THE WITNESS: SLOWLY. 9 THE COURT: MR. ZIMMER. 10 MR. ZIMMER: WE WILL TRY TO FOLLOW YOUR LEAD. 11 Q SIR, WHEN WERE YOU LAST EMPLOYED BY 12 MONSANTO? 13 A I LEFT MONSANTO IN 1978. 14 Q WHY DID YOU LEAVE MONSANTO? 15 A ' 77 . 16 I'M SORRY. ` 17 I HAD A RECRUITER OR SOMEBODY COME AND 18 KNOCK ON THE DOOR AND SAY WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR 19 YOU AND WOULD YOU BE INTERESTED IN COMING TO WORK FOR 20 US AT MO BAY. 21 IT LOOKED TOO GOOD TO RESIST. 22 Q AND MOBAY IS THE COMPANY YOU MENTIONED 23 YOU HAVE BEEN THERE SINCE YOU LEFT MONSANTO? 24 A EXACTLY. 25 Q LET ME MOVE BACK IN TIME TO JUNE OF 1968. 2 6 IS THAT WHEN YOU STARTED? 27 A CORRECT. 28 Q AND YOUR FIRST POSITION WAS AS A SALES HARTOLDMON0039919 3273 1 TRAINEE? 2 A CORRECT. 3 Q WHAT SORT OF TRAINING DID YOU RECEIVE AS 4 A SALES TRAINEE? 5 A MONSANTO HAD A PROGRAM. I CAME TO WORK IN 6 JUNE AND THEN WE WERE PUT INTO A MARKET RESEARCH TYPE 7 OF FUNCTION, KIND OF WE WERE IN WAITING FOR THE , 8 SALES -- THE FORMAL SALES TRAINING FROM THE START 9 WHICH I BELIEVE WAS IN SEPTEMBER. 10 AND IT WAS -- I STILL TALK ABOUT THAT 11 PROGRAM BECAUSE I AM STILL IMPRESSED WITH IT. 12 IT WAS A SIX-WEEK MANAGING THE MARKETING 13 JOB. 14 IT DIDN'T TEACH YOU ABOUT PRODUCTS 15 SPECIFICALLY BUT IT TAUGHT YOU ABOUT YOUR PERSONALITY 16 AND HOW TO CONDUCT YOURSELF AS A SALESMAN AND HOW TO 17 BRING FORTH, I GUESS, YOUR STRONGEST ATTRIBUTES SO IT 18 WAS A TREMENDOUS PROGRAM. 19 I LEARNED A LOT ABOUT MYSELF. 20 PRODUCT TRAINING, SPECIFIC PRODUCT 21 TRAINING WHICH WAS NOT IN THAT COURSE CAME AT A LATER 22 DATE THROUGH TRAVELING WITH TECHNICAL PEOPLE OR 23 COMING INTO ST. LOUIS FOR ONE- OR TWO-DAY, THREE-DAY 24 PERIODS, TECHNICAL PROGRAMS. 25 Q SO THAT IS HOW YOU RECEIVED YOUR PRODUCT 26 TRAINING? 27 A CORRECT. 28 Q WHO WAS YOUR SUPERVISOR, SIR, IN HARTOLDMON0039920 3274 1 FUNCTIONAL FLUIDS WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED? 2 A LARRY BRADFORD. 3 Q AND HOW DID YOU WORK IN THE FUNCTIONAL 4 FLUIDS GROUP? 5 A FUNCTIONAL FLUIDS, SPECIFICALLY IT WAS 6 PROBABLY UNTIL 19 -- EARLY 1970 OR MID 1971. 7 Q NOW, YOU MENTION THAT YOU TOOK OVER SOME 8 EXISTING ACCOUNTS. 9 WHICH CUSTOMERS DO YOU RECALL ASSUMING 10 RESPONSIBILITY FOR? 11 A WELL, WE HAD FOUR OR FIVE DIFFERENT AREAS 12 OF PRODUCTS. 13 WE HAD THE TURBINOL WHICH WAS TEXAS 14 EASTERN, OF COURSE. 15 WE HAD TURBINOLS WHICH WAS HEAT TRANSFER 16 FLUID. 17 PRIMARILY THERE WERE A NUMBER OF 18 CUSTOMERS THERE THAT WERE ENGINEERING AND 19 ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN GROUPS AND WE ASKED THEM TO 20 DESIGN THE TURBINOL INTO A PRODUCT THAT COULD USE 2 1 THAT PROJECT. 22 WE HAD PYDRAULS WHICH WERE INDUSTRIAL 23 HYDRAULIC FLUIDS AND WE ALSO. HAD SKYDROL WHICH WAS A 24 HYDRAULIC FLUID WHICH WAS USED IN AVIATION, 25 AIRLINES. 26 Q SO YOU SOLD PRODUCTS FROM ALL OF THOSE 27 GROUPS? 28 A I'M SORRY. ALL OF THOSE. HARTOLDMON0039921 3275 1 IF YOU TAKE EACH ONE OF THOSE, PYDRAULS 2 WOULD BE LIKE FORD MOTOR, GENERAL MOTORS PLANT, THE 3 DIE CASTING PLANTS, TURBINOLS WOULD BE AN ENGINEERING 4 FIRM AND THEN YOU WOULD HAVE SKYDROL WOULD UNDER TWA 5 AND UNITED AIR LINES, LIKE THAT. 6 Q WHEN DO YOU FIRST RECALL HAVING ANY 7 DEALINGS WITH TEXAS EASTERN? 8 A WE HAD AN ACCOUNT TURN OVER. 9 I DON'T RECALL THE SPECIFIC TIMING ON 10 THAT . 11 BUT I WENT WITH THE SALESMEN. 12 IT WAS A ROUTINE, NORMALLY WHEN YOU HAD 13 INHERITED A TERRITORY THAT YOU WENT WITH THE -- YOUR 14 SALESMEN THAT YOU WERE SUCCEEDING AND MADE A JOINT 15 CALL WITH HIM AT THAT ACCOUNT. 16 SO WE WENT TO SHREVEPORT INTO HOUSTON. 17 Q ALL RIGHT. THOSE ARE THE TWO LOCATIONS 18 THAT YOU RECALL DEALING WITH TEXAS EASTERN ON? 19 A CORRECT, SHREVEPORT, LOUISIANA AND 20 HOUSTON TEXAS. 21 Q WHO DID YOU DEAL WITH AT TEXAS EASTERN, 22 AS BEST YOU CAN RECALL? 23 A THE NAMES I CAN RECALL WOULD BE A TED 24 HARRISON AND AN OLLIE FLETCHER WHO WERE IN HOUSTON 25 AND THERE WERE A COUPLE OF PEOPLE IN SHREVEPORT, BUCK 26 JARNAGIN AND EARL FARMER. 27 Q ALL RIGHT. DID YOU MAKE ANY DISTINCTION 28 IN YOUR MIND BETWEEN THE LOCATIONS YOU HAVE JUST HARTOLDMON0039922 3276 1 MENTIONED, SHREVEPORT AND HOUSTON AND TO WHAT 2 FUNCTIONS WERE CARRIED OUT THERE? 3 A YES, VERY SPECIFICALLY. 4 THE HOUSTON LOCATION WAS STRICTLY 5 PURCHASING. 6 THAT IS, THEY DID ALL OF THE BUYING OF 7 THE TURBINOL AND WHATEVER ELSE TEXAS EASTERN 8 REQUIRED. 9 THE SHREVEPORT LOCATION WAS STRICTLY 10 ENGINEERING AND TECHNICAL. 11 Q DID YOU EVER HEAR, SIR, OF A GENTLEMAN 12 NAMED DON SLOAN? 13 A NO. . 14 Q WHEN YOU WERE DEALING WITH TEXAS EASTERN 15 DID YOU HAVE ANY UNDERSTANDING OF WHERE ANY PRODUCTS 16 YOU SOLD THEM WOULD BE USED? 17 A ONLY THE TURBINOL GOINGINTO TURBINES. 18 Q DID YOU SELL ANY OTHER PRODUCTS TO TEXAS 19 EASTERN, IF YOU RECALL? 20 A NOT THAT I RECALL, NO. 2 1 Q NOW, HOW DID YOU HANDLETHE TEXAS EASTERN 22 ACCOUNT? 23 A WELL, WE WERE -- WE WOULD CALL ON 24 PRIMARILY -- THE FOCUS WOULD BE PRIMARILY ON 25 PURCHASING SINCE I WAS COMMERCIAL AND NOT TECHNICAL. 2 6 WE WOULD CALL ON HOUSTON, ATTEMPT TO MAKE 27 SURE THEY WERE SATISFIED WITH THE SERVICE INVOLVED. 28 ALSO WE WOULD CALL ON THE SHREVEPORT HARTOLDMON0039923 3 277 1 LOCATION IF THERE WERE ANY QUESTIONS ON THE TECHNICAL 2 SIDE . 3 I THINK IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT COMING 4 INTO THIS TERRITORY THAT TEXAS EASTERN WAS WHAT I 5 WOULD REFER TO AS A MAINTENANCE ACCOUNT, IN THE SENSE 6 THAT IT HAD BEEN A LONG-TERM ESTABLISHED ACCOUNT FOR 7 MONSANTO AND REALLY MY FUNCTION AND PURPOSE WAS JUST 8 TO MAKE SURE THEY WERE HAPPY WITH OUR SERVICE, WITH 9 OUR DELIVERIES AND MAKE SURE WE HAD THE ADEQUATE 10 FORECAST TO PRODUCE PRODUCTS OF TURBINOL-153 FOR 11 TEXAS EASTERN. . 12 Q WAS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT 13 RELATIONSHIP HAD BEEN ESTABLISHED FOR SOME TIME? 14 A ABSOLUTELY, YES. 15 IT HAD BEEN A NUMBER OF YEARS PRIOR TO MY 16 TAKING IT OVER. 17 Q' DID YOU MAKE, IN THE COURSE OF YOUR SALES 18 DEALINGS WITH TEXAS EASTERN, PERSONAL VISITS? 19 A I DID. 20 Q PHONE CALLS AS WELL? 21 A MANY PHONE CALLS, YES. 22 Q ANY MORE OF ONE VERSUS THE OTHER? 2 3 A PROBABLY MORE PHONE CALLS THAN PERSONAL 24 VISITS. 25 Q WHY WAS THAT? 26 A I HAD, AGAIN, I CATEGORIZE IT AS A 27 MAINTENANCE ACCOUNT. 28 MY PURPOSE AS A SALESMAN, OBVIOUSLY, WAS HARTOLDMONOQ39924 3 278 1 TO TRY TO IMPROVE OUR POSITION IN SALES. 2 SO I LOOKED AT TEXAS EASTERN AS A 3 MAINTENANCE HOLD ACCOUNT AND SPENT A LOT OF TIME 4 BECAUSE I HAD A LARGE TERRITORY FOCUSED ON SELLING 5 SKYDROL, SELLING PYDRAUL, SELLING MORE THERMINOL, THE 6 OTHER PRODUCTS WHERE THERE WAS GROWTH AND 7 OPPORTUNITIES TO SELL PRODUCT. 8 Q WHO ORDERED FLUID FOR TEXAS EASTERN, AS 9 BEST YOU CAN RECALL? 10 A THAT CAME OUT OF PURCHASING BUT I CAN'T 11 RECALL SPECIFICALLY WHO IT WAS. 12 I'M ASSUMING IT CAME FROM HOUSTON. 13 Q AND WOULD THAT HAVE MEANT EITHER 14 MR. FLETCHER OR MR. HARRISON? 15 A OR SOMEONE IN THEIR DEPARTMENTS. 16 Q ARE THESE THE ONLY TWO NAMES THAT YOU 17 RECALL FROM TEXAS EASTERN THAT YOU DEALT WITH? 18 A YES. 19 Q IN A PURCHASING FUNCTION, I SHOULD SAY. 20 A YES. 2 1 Q WHAT USUALLY HAPPENED WHEN YOU MADE A 22 SALES CALL, IN OTHER WORDS, A PERSONAL VISIT TO TEXAS 2 3 EASTERN? 24 A WELL, WHEN I GO TO PURCHASING IT WOULD 25 JUST BE, AGAIN, MAKE AN APPOINTMENT, MAYBE GO TO 26 LUNCH. 27 I'M QUOTING REALLY WHAT I DID ON NORMAL 28 SALES CALLS. HARTOLDMON0039925 3279 1 BUT I CAN'T RECALL SPECIFICALLY, OTHER 2 THAN MAYBE A CHANGEOVER CALL. 3 TECHNICALLY, YOU WOULD JUST GO IN AND ASK 4 IS THERE ANYTHING NEW OR DO WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS 5 FROM ST. LOUIS THAT WE NEED TO HAVE IMPLEMENTED OR 6 ANSWERED OR RESPONDED TO AT THIS LITTLE TECHNICAL 7 LOCATION IN SHREVEPORT. 8 Q WOULD YOU REPORT THE RESULTS OF VISITS 9 LIKE THAT BACK TO YOUR SUPERVISORS? 10 A YES . 11 Q HOW WOULD YOU DO THAT? 12 A YOU GET INTO AN INTERESTING AREA. 13 MORE COMMONLY OR NOT IT WAS TO USE A CALL 14 REPORT. 15 Q WHAT IS A CALL REPORT? 16 A A CALL REPORT IS SIMPLY A DOCUMENT PIECE 17 OF PAPER IN A FORMAT THAT MONSANTO HAS PREPRINTED. 18 WE ARE TO SUBMIT THE HIGHLIGHTS OF OUR 19 CALL, THAT PARTICULAR CALL AT THAT LOCATION, WHO WE 2 0 CONTACTED, WHO WE TALKED TO, WHAT THE TOPICS OF 2 1 CONVERSATION WERE AND THEN FOLLOW IT UP WITH SOME 22 ACTION ITEMS. 23 THEN WE WOULD SEND THAT IN AND GO WITH 24 THE RESPONSE. 25 A LOT OF TIMES, BECAUSE THE TIME IT TOOK 26 FOR THE CALL REPORT TO BE TIMED, FIRST OF ALL, AND 27 THE TIME IT TOOK TO GET TO THE APPROPRIATE PEOPLE, 28 SAY, IN ST. LOUIS IT WAS TIME FOR -- IT WAS EASIER TO HARTOLDMONOQ39926 3280 1 GET ON THE PHONE. 2 THAT IS TO SAY ON THE PHONE STANDPOINT IT 3 WAS EASIER TO IMPLEMENT, THAN IT WAS WRITTEN. 4 Q UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES WERE CALL 5 REPORTS PREPARED? 6 A YOU MEAN AS FAR AS A MECHANISM? 7 WE HAD AN ANTIQUATED DICTAPHONE. 8 IS THAT WHAT YOUR ASKING? 9 Q I'M ACTUALLY ASKING WHAT KIND OF EVENTS 10 WOULD TRIGGER? 11 A PRIMARILY SOMETHING SIGNIFICANT THAT CAME 12 UP DURING THE CALL AND SOME SIGNIFICANT ACTIONS THAT 13 WERE REQUIRED. 14 AGAIN THAT WOULD BE FOLLOWED UP BY THE 15 FORM OF A PHONE CALL. 16 Q WERE PHONE REPORTS PREPARED FOR EVERY 17 VISIT TO A CUSTOMER? 18 A HYPOTHETICALLY YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO DO 19 THAT. 2 0 MONSANTO REQUESTED THAT THAT BE DONE. 21 I'M NOT A GLOWING EXAMPLE. WITH RESPECT 2 2 TO WRITING CALL REPORTS PRIMARILY BECAUSE I, AGAIN, I 23 DIDN'T WRITE MANY CALL REPORTS. 24 I HAVE LEARNED MY LESSON. 25 IN MY EARLIER CAREER I DIDN'T WRITE VERY 26 MANY CALL REPORTS AT ALL. 27 AGAIN, IF IT WAS A MAINTENANCE ACCOUNT I 28 FELT FAIRLY COMFORTABLE WAS BEING MADE, DIALOGUES HARTOLDMON0039927 3281 1 WERE HELD WITH ME AND OTHER PEOPLE IN ST. LOUIS. 2 Q DO YOU RECALL PREPARING ANY CALL REPORTS 3 THAT RELATED TO A TEXAS EASTERN VISIT YOU WOULD HAVE 4 HAD? 5 A I'M SURE THERE ARE SOME THAT I PREPARED. 6 I DON'T RECALL ANY SPECIFICALLY, BUT I'M 7 SURE THAT I PREPARED THEM. 8 Q YOU THINK YOU DID BUT YOU ARE JUST NOT 9 CERTAIN? 10 A I CAN'T SAY I DID. 11 Q YOU MENTIONED TURBINOL AS ONE OF THE 12 PRODUCTS THAT YOU WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR IN THIS '68 TO 13 '71 TIME PERIOD. 14 DID YOU KNOW TURBINOL BY ANY OTHER NAMES? 15 A IT WAS MCS-153, I BELIEVE. 16 Q IF I SAY "TURBINOL," CAN WE USE THOSE 17 SYNONYMOUSLY? 18 A YES . 19 Q WERE YOU AWARE WHEN YOU STARTED IN 1968 20 THAT TURBINOL-15 3 CONTAINED PCB'S? 21 A WAS I AWARE THAT IT SPECIFICALLY 22 CONTAINED PCB'S? 2 3 I WAS AWARE THAT IT CONTAINED A CHEMISTRY 24 WHICH WAS A PCB CHEMISTRY. 25 PCB'S AS FAR AS MY RECOLLECTION WAS 26 CONCERNED WAS A TERM USED AFTER I CAME TO MONSANTO. 27 Q HOW DID YOU REFER TO THAT CHEMISTRY? 28 A PRIMARILY POLYCHLORINATED BIPHENYLS HARTOLDMONOQ39928 3282 1 INITIALLY CHLORINATED. 2 Q CHLORINATED POLYPHENYLS? 3 A I BELIEVE IT'S P-H-E-N-Y-L. 4 Q THANK YOU, SIR. 5 WHEN DID YOU FIRST BECOME AWARE THAT 6 TURBINOL CONTAINED CHLORINATED POLYPHENYLS? 7 A RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING. 8 Q DO YOU RECALL EVER DISCUSSING THE 9 CHEMICAL COMPOSITION OF TURBINOL WITH TEXAS EASTERN? 10 A I'M SURE IT WAS DISCUSSED. 11 Q DO YOU RECALL ANY SPECIFIC INSTANCES IN 12 WHICH YOU DID THAT? 13 A NO. 14 I JUST LOOK AT IT AS AUTOMATIC. 15 Q NOW, BASED ON YOUR EXPERIENCE IN SELLING 16 TURBINOL TO TEXAS EASTERN, DID YOU GAIN AN 17 UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY WERE AWARE OF THE CHLORINATED 18 POLYPHENYLS CONTACT OF TURBINOL? 19 A TO BE VERY HONEST, AS I SAID EARLIER IN 20 THE DEPOSITION, I DON'T SEE HOW THEY COULD NOT HAVE 2 1 BEEN AWARE JUST BECAUSE OF THE DEFINITION OF THE 22 CHEMISTRY. 2 3 TO CALL IT PCB'S IS ONE THING. 24 BUT CHLORINATED HYDROCARBON BIPHENYLS ARE 25 THE SAME THING. 26 Q YOU NOW USE THE TERM PCB FOR 27 "POLYCHLORINATED"? 28 A THAT IS A CATCH PHRASE. HARTOLDMON0039929 3283 1 Q WAS THE PCB OR POLYCHLORINATED, A TRADE 2 SECRET WHEN YOU WERE SELLING THAT PRODUCT? 3 A I DON'T THINK, YOU MEAN AS FAR AS WHAT IT 4 WAS, HOW MUCH WAS IN IT OR WHAT IT WAS? 5 Q WAS THAT SOMETHING YOU KEPT A SECRET? 6 A NOT NECESSARILY. 7 I DON'T RECALL WHAT IT WAS, OTHER THAN IT 8 WAS ONE AROCLOR IN IT THAT I DO RECALL. 9 I DON'T THINK IT WAS. 10 I THINK IT WAS SOMETHING THAT TEXAS 11 EASTERN SPECIFIC TO TURBINOL WAS AWARE OF SINCE THEY 12 HELPED DEVELOP THE PRODUCT. 13 Q WAS THAT INFORMATION ABOUT THE AROCLOR 14 THAT YOU'RE AWARE OF SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD SHARE 15 WITH CUSTOMERS? 16 A WE HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH SHARING THE 17 CONCEPT. 18 WE WOULDN'T GET INTO THE SPECIFIC, YOU 19 KNOW, SALT AND PEPPERS THAT MADE THEM SPECIAL OR 20 WHATEVER BUT WE WOULD GET INTO THE BASIC CONTENT OF 21 THE CHEMISTRY. 22 Q DID YOU EVER MAKE ANY EFFORT DURING YOUR 23 SALES CAREER AT MONSANTO TO CONCEAL THE CONTENT OF 24 TURBINOL? 25 A NO. 26 AGAIN, WE HAD ONE CUSTOMER WHICH WAS 27 TEXAS EASTERN. 28 AND, IN FACT, WENT TO GREAT LENGTHS HARTOLDMON0039930 3284 1 BECAUSE WE PICKED UP IN MY TIME ANOTHER CUSTOMER ON 2 TURBINOL. 3 AND THAT CUSTOMER WE FREELY TALKED WITH 4 THEM ABOUT WHAT ITS CONTENTS WERE. 5 Q WE WILL GET TO THEM IN A MOMENT. 6 LET ME ASK YOU JUST A FEW OTHER 7 PRELIMINARY QUESTIONS. 8 WHAT WOULD YOU DO, SIR, IF YOU RECEIVED 9 QUESTIONS FROM CUSTOMERS ABOUT SAFE HANDLING OR 10 TOXICITY ISSUES AS THEY RELATED TO PCB PRODUCTS? 11 A PRIMARILY WE WOULD ATTEMPT TO FOCUS THE 12 ATTENTION ON THOSE QUESTIONS TO ST. LOUIS WHERE THE 13 SO-CALLED EXPERTS WERE, NOT FROM A TECHNICAL BUT FROM 14 A MEDICAL STANDPOINT. 15 SOMETIMES IT WAS LUDICROUS FOR US TO 16 ATTEMPT TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS BECAUSE WE WEREN'T AS 17 TECHNICALLY ORIENTED OR MEDICALLY ORIENTED, OBVIOUSLY 18 WITH THE PRODUCT. 19 Q AT ANY POINT IN YOUR SALES CAREER WITH 20 RESPECT TO TEXAS EASTERN DID YOU GAIN AN 2 1 UNDERSTANDING THAT ANY HEALTH EFFECTS HAD BEEN 22 ASSOCIATED WITH PCB'S? 23 A I RECALL SPECIFICALLY ONE INCIDENT THAT 24 WAS THE FIRST TIME I HEARD ABOUT IT. 25 THAT WAS IN LIVER STUDIES THAT WERE DONE 26 IN RATS. 27 Q OKAY. DO YOU RECALL WHEN YOU LEARNED OF 28 THESE RAT LIVER STUDIES? HARTOLDMON0039931 3285 1 A I DON'T, OTHER THAN IT HAD TO BE IN THE 2 EARLY 7 0 ' S , WHEN PCB'S SURFACED. 3 Q HOW DID THAT COME TO YOUR ATTENTION? 4 A I DON'T RECALL. 5 Q IS THAT THE KIND OFTHING THAT YOU WOULD 6 HAVE DISCUSSED WITH CUSTOMERS? 7 A. I DON'T RECALL WHETHER IDISCUSSED IT 8 SPECIFICALLY, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT I WOULDN'T HAVE 9 HESITATED TO. 10 IT'S FREE INFORMATION. IT WASN'T 11 ANYTHING SECRET ABOUT IT. 12 Q DID YOU AT SOME POINT, SIR, LEARN ABOUT 13 CONCERNS ARISING THAT PCB'S WERE PERSISTING IN THE 14 ENVIRONMENT? 15 A YES . 16 Q AND WHAT DID YOU LEARN IN THAT REGARD? 17 A THE LEVEL OF BIODEGRADABILITY, THE PCB 18 CHEMISTRY IN AND OF ITSELF, OR POLYCHLORINATED 19 BIPHENYL CHEMISTRY IS ONE. 20 THAT WAS THE ADVANTAGE IT HAD IN THE 21 APPLICATIONS THAT I HAVE TALKED ABOUT, THAT THE 22 BIODEGRADABILITY OR THE STABILITY OF THIS MOLECULE 23 WAS TERRIFIC IN THE SENSE THAT YOU COULD PUT IT IN A 24 MACHINE AND RUN IT AND RUN IT AND BEAT IT TO DEATH 2 5 ALMOST AND IT WOULD STILL BE STABLE. 26 AND AS A CONSEQUENCE THE DOWNSIDE OF THAT 27 STABILITY WAS THE FACT THAT YOU HAD POOR 28 BIODEGRADABILITY OF IT. HARTOLDMON0039932 3286 1 IT WAS SPECULATIVE AT THE TIME. 2 I DON'T RECALL IF IT WAS EVER PROVED THAT 3 IT WAS A BIG PROBLEM AT THE TIME IT WAS. 4 Q WHEN DO YOU RECALL LEARNING THAT 5 INFORMATION THAT YOU JUST TOLD US ABOUT? 6 A THAT IS JUST THE NATURE OF THE CHEMISTRY. 7 SO AS I LEARNED MORE ABOUT THE CHEMICAL 8 MAKEUP IN PYDRAULS, THERMINOLS OR TURBINOL, IT CAME 9 WITH THE CHEMISTRY. 10 Q I'M ASKING YOU, THOUGH, WHEN DO YOU FIRST 11 RECALL LEARNING ABOUT THE PCB SITUATION AS I THINK 12 YOU HAVE DESCRIBED IT? 13 A AGAIN, IT WAS THE EARLY 70'S. 14 Q NOW, WHAT WAS MONSANTO'S REACTION TO THE 15 PCB SITUATION, AS YOU RECALL? 16 MR. TALLON: OBJECTION, VAGUE AND FOUNDATION. 17 THE COURT: LAY SOME FOUNDATION, MR. ZIMMER. 18 Q BY MR. ZIMMER: MR. CLAY, YOU TOLD ME 19 THAT YOU LEARNED ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL INFORMATION AND 20 OTHER DEVELOPMENTS AS THEY WERE OCCURRING IN '70 TO 21 '71; IS THAT CORRECT? 22 A THAT'S CORRECT. 23 Q WERE THESE THINGS IMPARTED TO YOU BY YOUR 24 SUPERVISORS? 25 A YES, BY THE ORGANIZATION OF FUNCTIONAL 26 FLUIDS ORGANIZATION IN ST. LOUIS. 27 Q ALL RIGHT. WHAT DID YOU UNDERSTAND TO BE 28 THE COMPANY POSITION WITH RESPECT TO THIS EMERGING HARTOLDMON0039933 3 2 87 1 KNOWLEDGE? 2 A THE WAY WE TREATED IT WAS I THOUGHT, 3 AGAIN I HAVE BEEN AWAY FROM THE COMPANY FOR SOME 4 TIME, I THOUGHT IT WAS WITH AN EXTREMELY PROFESSIONAL 5 DEGREE, HIGH DEGREE OF PROFESSIONALISM IN THE SENSE 6 THEY KEPT US INFORMED WITH AS MUCH INFORMATION AS 7 POSSIBLE SO THAT WE COULD EITHER TALK TO THE 8 CUSTOMERS AND BE ABLE TO HAND OUT WHATEVER WE HAD AT 9 THE TIME OR THAT WE KNEW WHO TO REFERENCE OR REFER 10 PEOPLE TO WHEN THEY HAD QUESTIONS ON PCB'S. 11 BUT.IT WAS, I FELT, AN ABSOLUTELY WIDE 12 OPEN, VERY PROFESSIONAL WAY OF HANDLING A VERY 13 DIFFICULT SITUATION. 14 Q DID YOU EVER DISCUSS THAT SITUATION WITH 15 TEXAS EASTERN? 16 A I'M SURE I DID. 17 I DON'T RECALL. 18 Q YOU DON'T - 19 A I'M SURE I DID BUT I DON'T HAVE A 2 0 SPECIFIC RECOLLECTION. 21 Q BUT YOU CAN'T TELL ME A PARTICULAR DATE 22 OR CONVERSATION? 23 A AGAIN YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE 24 CHEMISTRY. 25 A PCB IS A CHLORINATED HYDROCARBON AND A 26 POLYCHLORINATED BIPHENYL. 27 AS SUCH IT IS ALL ONE AND THE SAME. 28 Q LET'S GO BACK TO THE CHEMISTRY FOR A HARTOLDMONOQ39934 3288 1 MOMENT. 2 YOU MENTIONED YOU WERE FAMILIAR WITH AT 3 LEAST ONE AROCLOR THAT WAS A COMPONENT OF TURBINOL. 4 WHICH WAS THAT? 5 A 1242. 6 Q DO YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT THE 7 COMPOSITION OF TURBINOL? 8 A NO. 9 Q DO YOU RECALLRECEIVING ANYCRITICISM 10 FROM EITHER CUSTOMERS OR COMPETITORS ABOUT MONSANTO'S 11 CONTINUED SALE OF PCB PRODUCTS? 12 A I HAVE TROUBLE WITH THE CUSTOMERS WITH 13 THE APPROACH WE WERE TAKING. 14 AS I RECALL IT WAS A FAIRLY POSITIVE 15 APPROACH OR WE ATTEMPTED TO KEEP EVERYTHING ABOVE 16 BOARD. 17 WE DID HAVE AN AWFUL LOT, I REMEMBER 18 SPECIFICALLY, WE HAD SOME COMPETITORS THAT ATTEMPTED 19 TO TAKE VERY WELL-DEFINED ADVANTAGE OF THE 20 SITUATION. 21 Q WHAT DO YOU RECALL IN THAT REGARD? 22 A WELL, THERE IS ONE COMPETITOR IN 2 3 PARTICULAR I WILL NEVER FORGET. 24 IT WAS CALLED STAUFFER CHEMICAL. 25 THEY WERE VERY SPECIFIC IN ATTACKING THE 26 PRODUCTS, NOT ONLY PYDRAULS BUT ALSO WHICH THEY HAD 27 COMPETITIVE PRODUCTS THAT DID THE SAME JOB. THEY 28 WEREN'T CHEMICALLY THE SAME, AND ALSO THE TURBINOL. HARTOLDMON0039935 3289 1 Q DID YOU EVER, SIR, HEAR THE TERMS "CLOSED 2 SYSTEM" OR "CLOSED LOOP" WHILE YOU WERE SELLING 3 FUNCTIONAL FLUIDS? 4 A YES . 5 Q AND WHAT DO THOSE TERMS MEAN TO YOU? 6 A I SEE THEM AS TWO SEPARATE TERMS. 7 I SEE THE CLOSED SYSTEM AS BEING TOTALLY 8 ENCAPSULATED, ALMOST ENVISIONING IT AS A CHAMBER, IF 9 YOU WILL, WHERE YOU HAVE FLUIDS CIRCULATING OR 10 RECYCLING THROUGH THE CHAMBER. A CLOSED LOOP I THINK 11 MORE IN TERMS OF A PUMP. YOU HAVE A DRIVING FLUID 12 THROUGH PIPES, THROUGH HOSES AND THAT IT'S MORE OR 13 LESS RECIRCULATING. IT'S RECYCLING UNDER PRESSURE. 14 Q DID YOU HAVE OCCASION, SIR, TO LEARN WHAT 15 USE TEXAS EASTERN WAS PUTTING TURBINOL TO THAT YOU 16 SOLD THEM? 17 A THE TURBINES, TO MY RECOLLECTION, WERE 18 CLOSED SYSTEMS. 19 THEY WERE IN THIS CHAMBER AS FAR AS I 2 0 RECALL, AS I DESCRIBE IT. 2 1 Q WHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT THE OPERATION OF 22 TEXAS EASTERN'S TURBINES AND COMPRESSORS WHILE YOU 23 WERE SERVICING THAT ACCOUNT?. 24 A I LEARNED THAT -- I LEARNED VERY LITTLE 25 ABOUT IT FROM THE TECHNICAL STANDPOINT. 2 6 I ATTEMPTED TO LEARN HOW MANY THEY HAD, 27 HOW MANY THEY HAD SO WE COULD FORECAST WHAT THE FLUID 28 CONSUMPTION WAS. HARTOLDMONOQ39936 3290 1 I LEARNED VERY LITTLE AS FAR AS THE 2 OPERATION. 3 Q DID YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF ANY SORT OF AN 4 EXPERT IN COMPRESSOR OR PIPELINE OPERATIONS? 5 A NO. 6 I HAD -- FELT IN LOOKING AT TEXAS 7 EASTERN THAT WE HAD A DIALOGUE, AN OPEN DIALOGUE UP 8 AND DOWN BOTH SIDES OF THE ORGANIZATION. 9 MONSANTO AND TEXAS EASTERN, NOT ONLY FROM 10 A COMMERCIAL STANDPOINT ABOVE ME BUT ALSO FROM A 11 TECHNICAL STANDPOINT ABOVE ME IN ST. LOUIS. 12 Q DID ANYONE FROM TEXAS EASTERN EVER TELL 13 YOU THAT THEIR TURBINE AND COMPRESSOR EQUIPMENT WAS 14 LEAKING LUBRICANT INTO THE PIPELINE? 15 A I DON'T RECALL, NO, NO. 16 Q DID YOU EVER BECOME AWARE, DURING THE 17 TIME THAT YOU WERE SERVICING THE TEXAS EASTERN 18 ACCOUNT, OF THE POTENTIAL FOR LEAKS IN COMPRESSOR OR 19 TURBINE EQUIPMENT? 20 A YES . 2 1 Q WHAT DO YOU RECALL IN THAT REGARD? 22 A THE FACT THAT A TURBINE FOR ANY SYSTEM 23 THAT -- A CLOSED SYSTEM SUCH AS THIS REQUIRED SEALS. 24 AND THE FUNCTION OF THE SEALS WAS TO ALLOW TWO PIECES 25 OF METAL OR JOINTS TO COME TOGETHER BUT ALLOW -- NOT 26 ALLOW THE FLUID TO LEAK AROUND OR THROUGH THE JOINT, 27 EITHER THROUGH INCORRECT SEALS OR POOR MAINTENANCE 28 YOU COULD HAVE SEAL LEAKAGE. HARTO L D M 6 N0039937 3291 1 THAT WOULD BE THE WAY THAT YOU COULD SEE 2 LEAKAGE. 3 Q DID YOU EVER LEARN THAT ACTUALLY 4 OCCURRED? 5 A NO . 6 WE DIDN'T -- I DIDN'T PERSONALLY TRACK. 7 Q WHAT IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF HOW SEAL 8 LEAKS LIKE THAT COULD OCCUR? 9 MR. TALLON: OBJECTION, FOUNDATION. 10 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. 11 LAY SOME FOUNDATION. 12 Q BY MR. ZIMMER: DID YOU EVER DISCUSS 13 MAINTENANCE OF COMPRESSOR OR THE SEALS WITHIN THEM 14 WITH ANYONE AT TEXAS EASTERN? 15 A NO . 16 IT WASN'T MY -- IT WAS NOT MY EXPERTISE. 17 Q DID YOU EVER SELL PYDRAUL FLUIDS? 18 A YES . 19 Q AND WHAT WERE THEY? 20 A PYDRAUL, AGAIN, WOULD BE USED IN A -- IN 2 1 THE CLOSED LOOP SYSTEM THAT I WAS REFERENCING WHERE 22 YOU HAVE RECIRCULATING FLUID. 2 3 ITS PRIMARY PURPOSE -- IT WAS USED IN 24 METALWORKING. 25 HERE WHERE YOU MAKE AN ENGINE CASING, 26 WHERE YOU HAVE PRESSURE COMING TOGETHER WITH MOLTEN 27 METALS, YOU NEED TO SHAPE IT AND NEED TO PUT PRESSURE 28 ON TWO PLATES THAT FORM THAT ENGINE MOUNT OR ENGINE --- .................. .. HARTOLDMON0039938 3292 1 HEAD. 2 THAT IS THE TERMINOLOGY, TOGETHER, IN 3 ORDER TO GET PRESSURE TO FORM THAT ENGINE HEAD YOU 4 HAVE TO HAVE A HYDRAULIC SYSTEM PUTTING PSI ON THE 5 PLATES. THAT WAS A CLOSED LOOP. THAT IS AN EXAMPLE 6 OF WHERE A LOT OF PYDRAULS WERE USED IN THAT TYPE OF 7 APPLICATION. 8 Q WAS TURBINOL A PYDRAUL? 9 A TURBINOL. 10 Q RIGHT? 11 A NO. 12 Q DO YOU RECALL, SIR, ANY CHANGE IN THE 13 FORMULATION OF PYDRAULS WHILE YOU WERE SELLING 14 FLUIDS? 15 A ABSOLUTELY, YES. 16 Q AND WHAT DO YOU RECALL IN THAT REGARD? 17 A THAT WE DID CHANGE PYDRAULS FROM AROCLORS 18 TO PCB'S TO NON-PCB'S OR PHOSPHATE ESTERS. 19 Q WHAT IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHY 20 MONSANTO WAS MOVING AWAY FROM A PCB CONTENT IN 2 1 PYDRAUL FLUIDS? 22 A I THINK PROBABLY PRIMARILY THE ISSUE WAS 23 THAT ALTHOUGH PCB'S WAS A CONCERN I DON'T BELIEVE 24 THERE WERE ANY CONSEQUENCES THAT HAD BEEN LAID OUT 25 AGAINST THE PRODUCT. 26 I THINK THERE WERE ENOUGH ISSUES AND I 27 THINK MONSANTO -- AGAIN, I THINK HIGHLY OF 28 MONSANTO -- WAS A RESPONSIBLE COMPANY, RESPONSIBLE HARTOLDMON0039939 3293 1 CHEMICAL COMPANY. 2 AS A CONSEQUENCE THEY SAID THIS IS NOT A 3 LONG-TERM ISSUE WITH US. WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING 4 ABOUT IT NOW. 5 Q DO YOU KNOW IF THE PYDRAUL FLUIDS WERE 6 BEING REFORMULATED? TURBINOL WAS NOT BEING 7 REFORMULATED? 8 A I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE PYDRAUL 9 APPLICATION, AS I MENTIONED, WITH THE CLOSED LOOP 10 TYPE OF THING, I THINK THE VULNERABILITY WAS MUCH 11 GREATER. 12 THE LOSS OF FLUID FROM THAT SYSTEM WAS 13 IMMENSELY GREATER BECAUSE OF THE HIGH PRESSURE AND 14 BECAUSE OF THE POINTS IN THE LOOP THAT YOU COULD LOSE 15 PRESSURE. 16 WE ARE AGAIN GETTING BACK TO THE LITERAL 17 DEFINITION OF CLOSED SYSTEM. 18 YOU HAD A CLOSED SYSTEM WITH THE 19 TURBINOL. 20 Q WHEN YOU SAY "POINTS IN THE LOOP"? 21 A LITERALLY THE CLOSED LOOP OF THE 22 HYDRAULIC SYSTEM. 23 YOU HAD JOINTS BETWEEN HOSE AND PIPE AND 24 BETWEEN PIPE AND PUMP, THINGS LIKE THAT. 25 THERE YOU HAD DEFINITE LEAKAGE, WHETHER 26 YOU WANTED IT THERE OR NOT. 27 I DON'T RECALL SEEING THE PERFECT SYSTEM. 28 Q DO YOU RECALL SEEING HYDRAULIC SYSTEMS HARTOLDMON0039940 3294 1 THAT USED PYDRAUL? 2 A YES . 3 Q WHAT SORT OF HOSES DO YOU RECALL SEEING? 4 A THE ONLY HOSE THAT I RECALL IS THAT USED 5 BY HOUSTON. 6 THAT WAS DIFFERENT. JUST A REGULAR HOSE 7 BECAUSE OF THE COMPATIBILITY PROBLEM YOU HAD WITH THE 8 PYDRAULS OR WITH THE CHEMISTRY. 9 Q TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE WERE ANY HOSES USED IN 10 NATURAL GAS TURBINE AND COMPRESSOR SYSTEMS? 11 MR. TALLON: OBJECTION, FOUNDATION. 12 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. 13 Q HOW WERE YOU INFORMED ABOUT THE PYDRAUL 14 REFORMULATION PROGRAM THAT YOU DESCRIBED A MOMENT 15 AGO? 16 A WE WERE INFORMED BY ST. LOUIS THAT WE 17 WOULD UNDERTAKE AN EFFORT TO REFORMULATE PYDRAULS. 18 SO ST. LOUIS INFORMED US THAT THIS IS ITS 19 INTENT AND THIS IS THE DIRECTION WE ARE GOING AND 20 THESE ARE THE PRODUCTS WE WOULD BE REFORMULATING. 2 1 Q WERE YOU GIVEN INSTRUCTIONS AS TO WHAT TO 22 TELL YOUR CUSTOMERS ABOUT THOSE REFORMULATIONS? 2 3 A YES. 24 Q DID YOU FOLLOW THOSE? 25 A LOOSELY SPEAKING, I WOULD SAY SO. 2 6 AGAIN, AT THAT TIME IT WAS MORE OF A 27 CONCERN THAN A CONSEQUENCE. 28 SO THERE WERE A LOT OF QUESTIONS THAT HARTOLDMON0039941 3295 1 WOULD COME UP BUT THEY WERE NOT NECESSARILY QUESTIONS 2 THAT THE CUSTOMER WAS VITALLY CONCERNED WITH. 3 AGAIN IT WAS NOT A DONE DEAL WITH HOW 4 GOOD OR BAD PCB'S WERE. 5 I THINK I WOULD HAVE ATTEMPTED TO FOLLOW 6 THOSE. 7 PROBABLY IT WAS SAFER FROM MY STANDPOINT, 8 BECAUSE, AGAIN, I HAD A LOT OF PRODUCTS. 9 I HAD A LOT OF TERRITORY TO REFER 10 EVERYTHING BACK TO ST. LOUIS AND LET THEM HANDLE IT. 11 Q MOVING BACK TO TEXAS EASTERN FOR A 12 MOMENT, DID YOU GAIN UNDERSTANDING DURING SERVICING 13 THEIR ACCOUNTS AS TO HOW LONG TEXAS EASTERN HAD BEEN 14 PURCHASING CHLORINATED POLYPHENYLS TURBINE LUBRICANT 15 FROM MONSANTO? 16 A IT HAD BEEN WHEN I CAME ON THE JOB, IT 17 HAD BEEN A NUMBER OF YEARS. 18 SPECIFICALLY I COULDN'T RECALL. 19 Q HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF A PRODUCT CALLED 20 OS-81? 2 1 A YES. 22 Q DO YOU KNOW WHETHER THAT WAS SOMETHING 23 THAT MONSANTO WAS SELLING TO TEXAS EASTERN? 24 A AS I RECALL, THAT WAS THE FOUNDING FATHER 25 OF TURBINOL-153 OR THE INITIAL FLUID THAT WAS 26 DEVELOPED BY MONSANTO AND TEXAS EASTERN. 27 Q NOW, WHEN YOU STARTED ON THE TEXAS 28 EASTERN ACCOUNT IN 1968, HOW WAS TURBINOL SHIPPED TO HARTOLDMON0039942 3296 1 TEXAS EASTERN? 2 A IN DRUMS. 3 Q DID YOU EVER SEE OF ANY THOSE DRUMS? 4 A NO . 5 MR. ZIMMER: YOUR HONOR, THIS MIGHT BE AN 6 OPPORTUNITY. 7 THE COURT: WE WILL TAKE THE AFTERNOON BREAK AT 8 THIS POINT, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN AND BE IN RECESS 9 UNTIL THREE O'CLOCK. 10 PLEASE RETURN AT THAT TIME. 11 (RECESS.) 12 THE COURT: AND RESUMING. 13 LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, A CHANGE IN OUR 14 PROGRAM FOR THIS AFTERNOON. 15 THERE IS SOMETHING I NEED TO DO WITH THE 16 LAWYERS BEFORE WE COMPLETE THE TESTIMONY OF THIS 17 WITNESS. 18 I'M GOING TO EXCUSE YOU NOW UNTIL 19 TOMORROW MORNING. 20 YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO THINK ABOUT THE 2 1 CASE . 22 SO PLEASE REMEMBER THAT ADMONITION AND 23 THE DIRECTION TO NOT SAY ANYTHING TO ANY OTHER 24 PERSON, HAVE A NICE EVENING. 25 WE WILL SEE YOU TOMORROW MORNING AT 26 9:30. 27 (THE PROCEEDINGS WERE RESUMED IN OPEN 28 COURT OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY.) HARTOLDMON0039943 3297 1 THE COURT: ALL THE JURORS HAVING LEFT THE 2 COURTROOM, COUNSEL, WE TALKED INFORMALLY THIS MORNING 3 ABOUT THE TESTIMONY OF MR. BAYLEY. 4 AND I FEEL THAT IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU 5 SHOULD PUT ON THE RECORD AND I NEED TO RESOLVE WHICH 6 I DID NOT FULLY DO THIS MORNING. 7 LET'S TAKE A FEW MINUTES NOW TO RESOLVE 8 THAT CONCERN. 9 MR. PREUSS, IS IT STILL MONSANTO'S 10 POSITION THAT YOU DO NOT WANT TO CALL MR. BAYLEY IN 11 YOUR DEFENSE CASE? 12 MR. PREUSS: YES, YOUR HONOR. 13 WE HAVE MADE THE DECISION NOT TO CALL 14 MR. BAYLEY AS PART OF OUR CASE. 15 THE COURT: AND HIS HAVING BEEN HERE AND BEING 16 SUBJECT TO THE JURISDICTION OF THE COURT AND NOT 17 BEING EXCUSED FROM FURTHER ATTENDANCE, MR. TALLON, 18 YOU WANT TO RECALL HIM IN REBUTTAL; IS THAT CORRECT? 19 MR. TALLON: THAT'S CORRECT. 20 THE COURT: WE DISCUSSED 2034 SUBDIVISION M AND 2 1 HIS AVAILABILITY IN CONNECTION WITH THE PREMISES OF 22 ANOTHER EXPERT. 23 MR. TALLON, COULD YOU TELL US 24 SPECIFICALLY WHAT PREMISES OF MR. MILLER OR ANY OTHER 25 EXPERT YOU EXPECT TO RECALL HIM IN CONNECTION WITH 2 6 FURTHER TESTIMONY? 27 MR. TALLON: YOUR HONOR, MAY I HAVE THE 28 INDULGENCE OF THE COURT TO JUST BACK UP TO THE M-l HARTOLDMON0039944 3298 1 SECTION? 2 THE COURT: GO AHEAD. 3 MR. TALLON: BECAUSE WHEN WE MET IN CHAMBERS 4 THIS MORNING I HAD NOT READ 2034 M AND I HAVE SINCE. 5 2234 M PROVIDES THAT A PARTY MAY CALL AS 6 A WITNESS AT TRIAL AN EXPERT NOT PREVIOUSLY 7 DESIGNATED BY THAT PARTY IF, ONE, THAT EXPERT HAS 8 BEEN DESIGNATED BY ANOTHER PARTY AND HAS THEREAFTER 9 BEEN DEPOSED UNDER SUBDIVISION I OF SECTION 2034. 10 THEN SECTION 2034 M GOES ON - 11 THE COURT: SIMPLY BEING DEPOSED AFTER A 12 DESIGNATION BY MONSANTO QUALIFIES HIM FOR THE CALL 13 OF -- I DON'T THINK THAT IS THE PROBLEM, MR. -- THE 14 PROBLEM IS, IF YOU HAD CALLED HIM IN YOUR CASE IN 15 CHIEF, THEN YOU WOULD QUALIFY UNDER THAT SECTION. 16 THE QUESTION NOW IS, HAVING CHOSEN FOR 17 YOUR OWN REASONS TO NOT CALL HIM IN YOUR CASE IN 18 CHIEF, DO YOU HAVE ANY BASIS TO CALL HIM OTHER THAN 19 IN REBUTTAL? 20 MR. TALLON: MY REASONS FOR NOT CALLING HIM WAS 2 1 BECAUSE HE WAS BEING MADE AVAILABLE, PUT ON THE 22 WITNESS LIST AND LOCKED IN AS OF LAST FRIDAY, AS WELL 23 AS FROM OCTOBER 8TH FORWARD. 24 SO I READ 2034 M-l AS SAYING THAT HE IS 25 SOMEONE I HAVE NOT DESIGNATED BEFORE. 26 HE HAS BEEN DEPOSED AND, THEREFORE, I CAN 27 CALL HIM IN REBUTTAL. 28 THE COURT: LET ME ASK YOU FOR AN OFFER OF HARTOLDMON0039945 3299 1 PROOF, MR. TALLON, ON HIS RELEVANCE. 2 MR. TALLON: OKAY. 3 MR. BAYLEY, IF CALLED BY ME, WOULD 4 TESTIFY AS TO THE FACTS ASSOCIATED WITH THE OPERATION 5 OF THE LABYRINTH SEAL IN TERMS OF THE FLOW ACROSS IT. 6 AND MORE PARTICULARLY THAT IN OPERATION 7 THE PRESSURE DIFFERENTIAL BEHIND THE SECOND STAGE 8 IMPELLER AND IN THE SEAL OIL DRAIN CAVITY ARE THE 9 SAME . 10 THAT IS, AS MR. BAYLEY PUTS IT, THERE IS 11 NO FLOW OF GAS OR ANYTHING HE SAYS ACROSS THE 12 LABYRINTH SEAL. 13 THAT HAS A FACTUAL UNDERPINNING TO THE 14 OPINION. 15 THE COURT: ARE THERE ANY OTHER POINTS? 16 YOU DON'T NEED TO DO A COMPLETE PARADE OF 17 ALL THE THINGS HE WOULD SAY, BUT GIVE ME AN OFFER OF 18 PROOF ON THE RELEVANCE. 19 MR. TALLON: THE SECOND POINT IS THAT HE WOULD 2 0 TESTIFY REGARDING THE FACTS OF THE FUNCTIONALITY OF 2 1 THE SEAL OIL DRAIN TRAP AND HOW IT DRAINS IN NORMAL 22 OPERATION AS WELL AS IN START-UP AND IN SHUTDOWN. 23 THE COURT: SO HE WILL BE TESTIFYING TO THE 24 DRAIN TRAP AND TO THE SEAL PRESSURES. 25 ANY OTHER POINTS? 26 MR. TALLON: WELL, THE EFFECTS OF THOSE 27 THINGS. 28 THE COURT: YES, I UNDERSTAND. HARTOLDMON0039946 3300 1 ANYTHING FURTHER, MR. ZIMMER OR 2 MR. PREUSS? 3 MR. ZIMMER: YES. 4 I THINK THE COURT HAS CORRECTLY OBSERVED 5 THAT PLAINTIFF HAVING RESTED WITHOUT CALLING 6 MR. BAYLEY IN THEIR CASE IN CHIEF WE ARE BROUGHT 7 SQUARELY WITHIN THE AMBIT OF 2034 P-2 WHICH, INDEED, 8 SAYS, AMONG OTHER THINGS, THAT THE IMPEACHMENT 9 TESTIMONY MR. TALLON WOULD INTEND TO OFFER VIA 10 MR. BAYLEY MAY INCLUDE TESTIMONY AS TO THE FALSITY OR 11 NONEXISTENCE OF ANY FACT USED AS THE FOUNDATION FOR 12 ANY OPINION BY ANY OTHER PARTY'S EXPERT WITNESS BUT 13 MAY NOT INCLUDE TESTIMONY THAT CONTRADICTS THE 14 OPINION. 15 THIS MORNING IN CHAMBERS MR. TALLON 16 INDICATED THAT HE BELIEVED THAT MR. BAYLEY'S 17 TESTIMONY WOULD, IN FACT, CONTRADICT SOME OF THAT 18 OFFERED BY MR. MILLER AND, IN FACT, HE HAS JUST 19 REITERATED THAT OF THE THREE OR FOUR THINGS 20 MENTIONED, FACTS ABOUT THE OPERATION OF THE LABYRINTH 2 1 SEAL AND THE FLOW ACROSS IT, WHETHER THE PRESSURE 22 DIFFERENTIAL IS THE SAME OR NOT AND THE FUNCTIONALITY 23 OF THE SEAL OIL DRAIN TRAP, NONE OF THOSE ARE 24 FOUNDATIONAL ISSUES AS TO WHAT EACH OF THESE EXPERTS 25 REVIEWED AND RELIED UPON. 26 THEY ARE ALL, YOUR HONOR, EFFORTS TO SHOW 27 THAT MR. BAYLEY'S TESTIMONY MIGHT CONTRADICT THAT OF 28 MR. MILLER. HARTOLDMON0039947 3 3 01 1 THE COURT: HERE IS THE PROBLEM I SEE, 2 MR. ZIMMER. 3 THE ENTIRE SECTION OF SUBSECTION M 4 RELATES TO CALLING A WITNESS NOT PREVIOUSLY 5 DESIGNATED BY THAT PARTY. 6 HERE TRANSWESTERN HAS NOT DESIGNATED 7 MR. BAYLEY. 8 THE QUESTION IS NOT WHETHER THEY CAN CALL 9 THAT PERSON UNDER EITHER OF THE TWO STANDARDS SET 10 FORTH. 11 I HEAR MR. TALLON OFFERING BOTH STANDARDS 12 AS A BASIS. 13 MR. ZIMMER: I GUESS I PRIMARILY ADDRESSED THE 14 SECOND. 15 THE COURT: BY LOOKING ONLY AT THE SECOND 16 BASIS, YOU ARE SAYING THAT EVEN IF BAYLEY DOES TALK 17 TO THE DRAIN TRAP AND THE SEAL PRESSURES, HE SHOULD 18 STILL BE PRECLUDED FROM TESTIMONY OF A DIFFERENT 19 OPINION, A DIFFERENT CONCLUSION. 20 AND THAT DOESN'T ADDRESS THE FIRST 2 1 CONCERN. 22 THAT DOESN'T ADDRESS THE FIRST AND WE 2 3 DIDN'T LOOK AT IT IN CHAMBERS SO YOU SHOULD RESPOND 24 TO THAT. 25 MR. ZIMMER: I WOULD BE HAPPY TO, YOUR HONOR. 2 6 AS FAR AS CASES THAT INTERPRET 2034 M GO 27 WAS INDEED A LEGISLATIVE RESPONSE TO THE GALLO 28 DECISION WHICH I COULD CITE TO THE COURT, IF YOU HARTOLDMON0039948 3302 1 WOULD LIKE, ONE OTHER CASE CALLED POWELL VERSUS 2 ROSEBUD COMMUNITY HOSPITAL THAT HAS INTERPRETED IN 3 THAT SECTION. 4 BOTH OF THOSE DEAL WITH SITUATIONS IN 5 WHICH THE PARTY WOULD HAVE BEEN PRECLUDED FROM 6 CALLING THAT PERSON AT ALL BUT SOUGHT THE RELIEF 7 BEFORE THEY HAD RESTED. 8 THE COURT: LET ME INTERRUPT YOU. 9 SO THAT I CAN LOOK AT THOSE TWO CASES AND 10 SO THAT TRANSWESTERN CAN LOOK AT THOSE TWO CASES, 11 LET'S HAVE THE CITE. 12. WE WILL TAKE A RECESS FOR THE EVENING AND 13 THEN TOMORROW MORNING I CAN RESPOND WITH WHAT THE 14 CASES APPEAR TO CITE. 15 MR. ZIMMER: OKAY. 16 THE POWELL VERSUS ROSEBUD COMMUNITY 17 HOSPITAL'CASE IS AT 211, CLAN THIRD, 441. 18 AND GALLO VERSUS PENINSULA HOSPITAL IS AT 19 164 CAL.APP.3D, 899. 20 AND IF I MAY, YOUR HONOR, I WOULD LIKE TO 2 1 MAKE ONE OTHER BRIEF POINT IN RESPONSE TO YOUR 22 QUESTION ABOUT 2034 M-l, THAT BEING THAT AS I HAVE 23 ALREADY INDICATED WE THINK THAT THAT SECTION OF THE 24 STATUTE IS MOOT, GIVEN THE FACT THAT PLAINTIFF HAS 25 RESTED AND GIVEN ONE OTHER IMPORTANT FACTOR, THAT IS 2 6 THAT MR. TALLON HAS ALSO INDICATED HE WISHES TO CALL 27 MR. BAYLEY ON REBUTTAL. 28 WE HAVE BEEN SERVED IN THIS CASE AND I HARTOLDMON0039949 3303 1 BELIEVE THE COURT MAY HAVE A COPY OF A LIST OF 41 2 COUNTER-FAIRNESS DESIGNATIONS AND REBUTTAL WITNESSES 3 FROM TRANSWESTERN. 4 MR. BAYLEY'S NAME DOES NOT APPEAR ON THAT 5 LIST AND IMPORTANTLY AT LEAST TWO OF MONSANTO'S 6 CASE-IN-CHIEF WITNESSES, MR. BISTLINE AND MR. MASON 7 DON'T APPEAR. 8 I FEEL THAT IS ANOTHER IMPORTANT 9 INDICATION. 10 THE COURT: I'M STAYING CONSISTENT WITH WHAT I 11 SAID EARLIER THIS MORNING WHEN WE MET INFORMALLY ON 12 THIS CONCERN. 13 THAT IS, I CAN SEE TRANSWESTERN CALLING 14 BAYLEY ONLY ON REBUTTAL, THAT MEANS TO RESPOND TO 15 DEFENSE TESTIMONY. 16 I'M NOT CONSIDERING EVEN UNDER 2034 M-l 17 THAT THEY CAN SUPPLEMENT THE TRANSWESTERN CASE, THE 18 CASE IN CHIEF. 19 MR. ZIMMER: I UNDERSTAND, YOUR HONOR. 20 WHAT I'M SUGGESTING, IN THE LIST OF 2 1 POTENTIAL REBUTTAL WITNESSES THAT THEY HAVE RESERVED 22 DOES NOT INCLUDE MR. BAYLEY. 23 THE COURT: I'M LESS IMPRESSED BY THAT BECAUSE 24 I THINK THEY ARE ENTITLED TO MAKING TACTICAL 25 DECISIONS TO THINK THAT THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO DEVELOP 26 MATERIAL FROM BAYLEY UNDER CROSS-EXAMINATION WHEN HE 27 HAS BEEN ON MONSANTO'S WITNESS LIST, AS I UNDERSTAND 28 IT, FROM THE INCEPTION. HART6 L DM O N0039950 3304 1 SO I DON'T HAVE A SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM 2 WITH THEIR NOT COUNTER-DESIGNATING BAYLEY AS THEY 3 COUNTER DESIGNATED BISTLINE OR OTHERS. 4 THEY CAN MAKE THOSE TACTICAL DECISIONS 5 BUT THEN THEY HAVE TO LIVE WITH THEM. 6 HAVING MADE THE DECISION NOT TO COUNTER 7 DESIGNATE, THEN THE ONLY PROBABLE SCOPE OF ANY BAYLEY 8 TESTIMONY, IT SEEMS TO ME, IS IN REBUTTAL. 9 MR. ZIMMER: OUR FINAL POINT, YOUR HONOR, WOULD 10 SIMPLY BE WE DON'T FEEL THAT ANY TESTIMONY HE COULD 11 OFFER WOULD BE THE PROPER SUBJECT OF REBUTTAL IN THAT 12 MY UNDERSTANDING THAT REBUTTAL TESTIMONY MUST 13 CONFRONT SOMETHING COMPLETELY NEW, DIFFERENT, 14 UNEXPECTED, A SURPRISE TO PARTICIPANTS. 15 BOTH MR. MILLER AND BAYLEY WERE DEPOSED 16 BY TRANSWESTERN FOR SOME THREE AND FOUR DAYS APIECE. 17 THE COURT: ANY CASES YOU THINK I SHOULD LOOK 18 AT THAT YOU KNOW NOW, MR. TALLON? 19 MR. TALLON: NO, I DON'T, YOUR HONOR. 20 IF I MAY HAVE UNTIL FOUR -- I DON'T 21 THINK THERE IS ANYTHING ELSE. 22 THE COURT: IF YOU DO LEARN MORE CASES, PLEASE 23 TELEPHONE THEM TO COUNSEL FOR MONSANTO AND TO THE 24 COURT. 25 I WILL BE HERE. 26 AND I WILL BE ABLE TO LOOK AT THOSE CASES 27 THIS EVENING. 28 MR. TALLON: FOR THE RECORD, THE DOCUMENT THAT HARTOLDMON0039951 3305 1 MR. ZIMMER IS REFERRING TO WAS A DOCUMENT OF 2 POTENTIAL REBUTTAL WITNESSES WE SENT TO THEM. 3 I DON'T THINK THAT HAS ANY OFFICIAL 4 STATUS WITH THE COURT SINCE WE DIDN'T FILE IT. 5 THE COURT: ANYTHING FURTHER THIS EVENING, 6 MR. TALLON? 7 MR . TALLON: NO. 8 THE COURT: MR. ZIMMER? 9 MR. ZIMMER: NO, THANK YOU. 10 THE COURT: THEN WE ARE IN RECESS. 11 THANK YOU. 12 13 14 (AT 3:20 P.M., THE PROCEEDINGS WERE ADJOURNED 15 UNTIL FRIDAY, DECEMBER 17, 1993 AT 9:30 A.M.) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 HARTOLDMON0039952 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES 3 DEPARTMENT NO. 31 HON. G. KEITH WISOT, JUDGE 4 5 TRANSWESTERN PIPELINE COMPANY, A DELAWARE CORPORATION, 6 PLAINTIFF- RESPONDENT, 7 VS . 8' MONSANTO COMPANY AND DOES 1 9 THROUGH 200, INCLUSIVE, 10 DEFENDANTS- APPELLANTS. 11 ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) NO. BC 026959 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 12 STATE OF CALIFORNIA 13 COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES ) ) SS . ) 14 15 I, DAVID ALAN SALYER, OFFICIAL REPORTER OF THE 16 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, FOR THE 17 COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES, DO HEREBY CERTIFY THAT THE 18 FOREGOING PAGES, 3,150 THROUGH 3,305, INCLUSIVE, 19 COMPRISE A TRUE AND CORRECT TRANSCRIPT OF THE 20 PROCEEDINGS HELD IN THE ABOVE-ENTITLED MATTER, AS 21 DESIGNATED BY COUNSEL TO BE INCLUDED IN THE 22 TRANSCRIPT ON APPEAL, REPORTED BY ME ON December 16, 23 1993 . 24 DATED THIS _________DAY OF APRIL, 1994. 25 26 _______________________ ~. CSR # 4410 27 OFFICIAL REPORTER 28 HARTOLDMON0039953