Document YGbZJNJ5nxboVxQExXZqq11gN

Page 1 Page 3 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT IN AND FOR ESCAMBIA COUNTY, FLORIDA 1 THE FIRST JUDICIAL CIRCUIT 2 JOHN ALLEN, et al., ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) ) Case No. 2008 CA 001762 vs. ) ) Division No. B MONSANTO COMPANY, et al., ) ) Defendants. ) 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 VIDEO DEPOSITION OF ROBERT G. KALEY Taken on behalf of the Plaintiffs 13 14 July 19, 2011 15 16 17 18 19 20 DIANNA C. HARK, RPR, CSR CCR MO. LICENSE NO. 1079 21 22 23 24 25 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT IN AND FOR ESCAMBIA COUNTY, FLORIDA THE FIRST JUDICIAL CIRCUIT JOHN ALLEN, et al., ) Plaintiffs, ) ) ) ) Case No. 2008 CA 001762 vs. ) ) Division No. B MONSANTO COMPANY, et al., ) ) Defendants. ) VIDEO DEPOSITION OF ROBERT G. KALEY, produced, sworn, and examined on behalf of the Plaintiffs on July 19, 2011, between the hours of ten o'clock in the forenoon and two-thirty in the afternoon of that day, at the Law Firm of Husch Blackwell LLP, 190 Carondelet Plaza, Suite 600, St. Louis, Missouri 63105, before DIANNA C. HARK, a Certified Court Reporter and a Notary Public within and for the State of Missouri. APPEARANCES The Plaintiffs were represented by Donald W. Stewart of the law firm of Stewart & Stewart, PC, 1000 Quintard Avenue, Suite 500, Anniston, Alabama 36201. The Defendants were represented by Charles E. Merrill of the law firm ofHusch Blackwell LLP, 190 Carondelet Plaza, Suite 600, St. Louis, Missouri 63105. Also present: Bo Kriegshauser, Video Technician Page 2 Page 4 EXAMINATION INDEX PAGE ROBERT G. KALEY DIRECT BY MR. STEWART . EXHIBIT INDEX PAGE 8 Plaintiffs' Exhibit 9 1 Second Amended Notice of Deposition 6 10 3 Defendants' Supplemental Objections and 61 Responses 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Exhibits were received by the court reporter 24 to be returned to Mr. Stewart. 25 Signature was not waived. 1 IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED by and betwe|: 2 Counsel for the Plaintiffs and Counsel for the 3 Defendants, that the deposition of ROBERT G. KALEY, may 4 be taken in shorthand by DIANNA C. HARK, Registered 5 Professional Reporter, Certified Court Reporter, 6 Certified Shorthand Reporter, and Notary Public, and 7 afterwards transcribed into typewriting. And the 8 Witness read and signed the transcript. 9 10 o-0-o 11 12 ROBERT G. KALEY, 13 of lawful age, being produced, sworn, and examined on 14 behalf of the Plaintiffs, and after responding "I do" to 15 the oath administered by the court reporter, deposes and 16 says: 17 18 THE VIDEO TECHNICIAN: We are on the record. 19 This is the videotaped deposition of Robert G. Kaley. 20 Today's date is July 19th, 2011, and the time is 21 10:08 a.m. 22 This is the case of John Allen, et al. versus 23 Monsanto Company, et al. The case number is 2008 CA 24 001762, pending in the First Judicial Circuit Court in 25 and for Escambia County in the state of Florida. 1 (Pages 1 to 4) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006191 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 5 Page 7 1 Counselors, will you please state your 1 A. That's correct. 2 appearance? 2 Q. And you moved to Solutia when that company was 3 MR. STEWART: I'm Donald Stewart and one of the 3 spun off from Monsanto? 4 attorneys representing the plaintiffs in this case. 4 A. Yes, I did. 5 MR. MERRILL: And I'm Charlie Merrill. I 5 Q. And are you familiar with the records that they 6 represent the defendants in the case and the witness. 6 maintain, Monsanto maintained? 7 THE VIDEO TECHNICIAN: Will the court reporter 7 A. Just generally from my days there. 8 please administer the oath? 8 Q. In connection with PCBs? 9 [The Witness was sworn in at this time.] 9 A. Yes. 10 10 Q. Did you not serve, when you were employed at 11 DIRECT EXAMINATION 11 Monsanto, as a steward of PCBs, or the information about 12 QUESTIONS BY MR. STEWART: 12 PCBs? 13 Q. Would you please state your name for the 13 A. Some of the information, yes, I did. 14 record? 14 Q. Okay. When you say "some of the information," 15 A. Yes, Robert George Kaley, II. 15 can you tell us what that was? 16 Q. And is it Mr. Kaley or Dr. Kaley? 16 A. Well, primarily information related to 17 A. It's doctor. 17 regulatory affairs, manufacturing, MSDS sheets, that 18 Q. Dr. Kaley, I wanted to ask you, if you'll take 18 kind of material. 19 a look at what we've marked as Plaintiffs Exhibit 1 -- 19 Q. Now, were you familiar at the time that you 20 MR. STEWART: And I'll give you a copy. 20 worked with Monsanto, and when did you go with Solutia, 21 Charlie. 21 so we can get that time frame? 22 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) -- and say to you this is the 22 A. Solutia was formed September of 1997. 23 Second Amended Notice of your deposition, and ask you if 23 Q. All right. So, you worked for Monsanto up 24 you'll take a look at that. 24 until you went with Solutia in, in September of '97? 25 A. Yes, I've seen it. 25 A. Yes, I did. Page 6 Page 8 1 [Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 1 was introduced.] 1 Q. Now they maintain an archive or historical 2 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) And when did you see that 2 records on PCBs, Monsanto did; did they not? 3 notice? 3 A. The law department did, yes. 4 A. Probably about a month ago. 4 Q. And in connection with the spin-off of Solutia, 5 Q. And when you looked at the, this deposition 5 did that archives, or did those records move to Solutia 6 notice, were you informed that you would be a witness 6 once the spin-off occurred? 7 here for us today? 7 A. They moved to the custody of Solutia, yes. 8 A. Yes, I was. 8 Q. And were you familiar with those records in 9 Q. Okay. And do you understand that those items 9 connection with your work with Solutia? 10 that we asked you to be able to testify about begin on 10 A. In general terms. I knew they existed and I 11 page two? 11 had seen a number of those documents in various 12 A. Yes, I understand. 12 circumstances, yes. 13 Q. Okay. And you understand, of course, that 13 Q. When you say these were gathered by the law 14 you're here on behalf of Solutia; is that correct? 14 department, is that where they were housed at Monsanto? 15 A. I understand that, yes. 15 A. I don't frankly know specifically where the 16 Q. Now are you here on behalf of any other of the 16 documents themselves were housed in Monsanto. I don't 17 entities that are involved as defendants, potential 17 remember. 18 defendants in this case, either Monsanto or Ascend? 18 Q. And do you know where they were housed when 19 A. No. 19 Solutia was spun off? 20 Q. Do you know anything about those companies? 20 A. Actually I don't. 21 A. I know things about Monsanto. I worked there 21 Q. Okay. Now, what, if any, connection do you 22 for a number of years. But the old Monsanto, not the 22 have with the company called Ascend? 23 new Monsanto. 23 A. None. 24 Q. Certainly. You worked for the old Monsanto 24 Q. Do you know anything about what happened to 25 before you became an employee of Solutia; did you not? 25 Solutia's records once the plant in Pensacola was sold 2 (Pages 5 to 8) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006192 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 9 Page 11 1 by Solutia to Ascend? l they followed -- 2 A. Yes, I do. 2 A. Well, basically -- 3 Q. When did that happen? When did that sale 3 Q. -- transferring those documents? 4 occur? 4 A. Well, certainly the documents that were at the 5 A. My understanding is the sale occurred in 5 plant stayed at the plant and became the possession of 6 mid-2009. 6 Ascend. 7 Q. And when I say "the records," what records are 7 The documents at headquarters were, persons who 8 you talking about? You said that this archive on PCBs, 8 left, or left Solutia to go with Ascend who were based 9 or was it just the records from the Pensacola plant? 9 in St. Louis, took their records with them to Ascend. 10 A. Well, it was records associated with the 10 Q. You're talking about the individual or personal 11 textiles business from Solutia that went to Ascend. Not 11 records that they maintained in their offices -- 12 the archive that we've been speaking about particularly 12 A. -- yes, their files, yes. And then records 13 before. 13 that were more, in more general repositories were 14 Q. Okay. Once you got this notice, what, if 14 transferred from basically pretty close after the sale 15 anything, did you do in connection with your preparation 15 to probably six or seven months later in various stages. 16 for your testimony here today on behalf of Solutia? 16 There were actually meetings held in late 2009 to 17 A. I had several meetings with counsel to discuss 17 discuss the separation of some of the records and, and 18 the specifics of the, of this request. I reviewed a 18 there was a major transfer of records after that. 19 number of records from the production sets to assure 19 Q. When you say "the separation of some of the 20 myself that the records that had been produced were 20 records," did she tell you what type of records were 21 records that I would have had, from my years of 21 separated and sent to Ascend -- 22 experience, would have expected to see produced in a, in 22 A. Well, they, a number of type of records. There 23 response to the specific request. 23 were environmental health and safety records, there wen 24 I interviewed the librarian at Solutia to ascertain 24 legal records, business records, anything that was 25 how documents were transferred, or the documents in 25 directly associated with the textiles business that Page 10 Page 12 1 St. Louis headquarters were transferred to Ascend. 1 Solutia had that, that Ascend purchased was transferred 2 I spoke with a paralegal at the Husch firm about the 2 to Ascend. 3 specif, excuse me, the specifics of some of the 3 Q. Would that have included environmental 4 questions here with regard to, for instance, the indexes 4 compliance of documents, documents that were filed 5 for various data sets. 5 either with the federal government or the state 6 Q. When you say you spoke to the librarian at 6 government? 7 Solutia, who was that? 7 A. To the extent that they were present in 8 A. Her name is Marsha Stoklosa. 8 St. Louis, that would have included those. As I said, 9 Q. Marsha? 9 the ones, those kinds of documents typically would have 10 A. Stoklosa. I think it's S-T-O-K-L-O-S-A, but 10 been held at the plant, I understand, and they would 11 that could be incorrect. 11 have remained at the plaint and transferred to Ascend. 12 Q. S-T-O-K-L-O-S-A? 12 Q. All right. When you talk about other 13 A. That's mine, that's what I think it is, yes. 13 documents, would monitoring documents be maintained in 14 It's close. 14 St. Louis or in the plant in Pensacola? 15 Q. When you pronounce it "Stokolosa," is there an 15 A. Most likely at the plant. The specific 16 O after the K? 16 monitoring documents would have been maintained at thi 17 A. If I pronounce it that way, I didn't mean to. 17 plant. I can't say there weren't some in St. Louis, but 18 It's Stoklosa. 18 most of the, the bulk of those would have been 19 Q. Stoklosa, S-T-O-K-L-O-S-A? 19 maintained at the plant. 20 A. I believe that's correct. 20 Q. What about the correspondence that might have 21 Q. She's the librarian for Solutia. What did you 21 been had by employees from Monsanto about problems that 22 discuss with her? 22 might exist, environmental problems that might exist? 23 A. The, the process by which documents were, after 23 Where would those have been maintained? 24 the sale, were transferred to Ascend. 24 A. Well- 25 Q. And what did she tell you was the process that 25 Q. And pardon me. I said Monsanto, I meant 3 (Pages 9 to 12) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006193 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 13 Page 15 1 Solutia. 1 and it was later expanded to include environmental 2 A. I understand. I heard, I heard Solutia. Those 2 documents. 3 would have been maintained at the plant to the extent 3 Q. Was that the documents that you referred to 4 they were generated by plant personnel. 4 earlier that were maintained by Monsanto? 5 If such correspondence had been undertaken by 5 A. By the law department, yes. 6 St. Louis personnel for whatever reason, they probably 6 Q. Did that start sometime in the late '70s, early 7 would have been in both places, the plant and in 7 '80s? 8 St. Louis. 8 A. The archive itself or the MONS set? 9 Q. Before 2009, was that information available to 9 Q. The archive itself. 10 Solutia for the sale in 2009? 10 A. The early 1980s. 11 A. I'm sure it was. I mean those documents would 11 Q. Okay. And was that true for the MONS set? 12 have been in Solutia's possession prior to the sale, 12 A. No, I think it was generated -- I'm not sure 13 prior to the transfer. 13 when it was generated. Probably a decade later. 14 Q. All right. Now, you talked with the librarian 14 Q. Sometime in the '90s? 15 and you talked to a paralegal here at this firm? 15 A. I believe so. I'm, I'm guessing a little bit 16 A. Yes. 16 there but I believe so. 17 Q. Talked to anybody else in connection with your 17 Q. Was that set of documents related to safety and 18 testimony here today on behalf of Solutia? 18 health issues and environmental issues with regard to 19 A. Other than counsel, no. 19 PCBs? 20 Q. I have not said so, but I assume, and I want to 20 A. Yes. 21 have this understanding as we proceed through this 21 Q. Was it gathered for litigation -- 22 deposition, that you're speaking for Solutia and not for 22 A. It was gathered, yes, it was gathered in 23 Dr. Robert Kaley as you testify here today; do you 23 response to various requests, similar requests in 24 understand that? 24 various litigations for that type of document. 25 A. Yes, I do understand that. 25 And so the decision was made to make a thorough Page 14 Page 16 1 Q. Okay. Now, what is your familiarity with the 1 search of the archive to get all those documents and put 2 documents that had been provided to us so far in this 2 them in one place so they could always be produced 3 case? 3 whenever that request came in. 4 A. I have a general understanding of the documents 4 Q. Was that practice maintained by Solutia once 5 that have been provided, and I have actually looked, as 5 they took over the plants from, that they took over when 6 I said earlier, to familiarize myself with what are in 6 they were spun off from Monsanto -- 7 the various sets of documents. 7 A. Yes -- 8 I have looked at selected documents not, not, by 8 MR. MERRILL: Object to the form of the 9 selected I mean randomly chosen as I went, went through 9 question. I need to know what you meant by "practice." 10 the data sets to just assure myself that the kinds of 10 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Putting together documents. 11 documents I would expect to see were, in fact, in there. 11 maintaining documents and collecting over time. My 12 Q. Can you tell me first what data sets that you 12 understanding, the archives were maintained and, and 13 looked at as you sit here today? 13 collected over time, and there were additions to those 14 A. My understanding is that there, there, have 14 documents as years went on. Is that correct or 15 data sets with various Bates labels, Bates stamps have 15 incorrect? 16 been produced including a set prefixed with the letters 16 A. We talking about the, the general archive? 17 M-O-N-S, the MONS set; a set prefixed with the letters 17 Q. Yes. 18 D-S-W, I'm not sure what that means; a set prefixed 18 A. All right. My understanding is that there was 19 F-L-A dash P-C-B; and a set prefixed G-N-Z. 19 an initial creation of that archive. There has not been 20 Q. Do you know where the MONS set came from? 20 a general practice or attempt to sweep in other 21 A. Yes. 21 documents generated after that time, although as 22 Q. Where? 22 documents have been identified, they have been added t< 23 A. Well, it came from the archive that we 23 that archive on an occasional basis but not necessarily 24 mentioned earlier. It's a collection of documents 24 a thorough basis. 25 related to initially safety and health from the archive 25 Q. But let me see if I understand what you're 4 (Pages 13 to 16) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006194 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 17 Page 19 1 saying. Generally speaking, as documents were generated l selection by us. 2 after the archives was originally created, sometime 2 MR. STEWART: You mean, are you saying -- 3 those were added that related to PCB? 3 MR. MERRILL: Not the entire archive, the 4 A. Yes. 4 entire MONS set. 5 Q. And did they relate to safety and to health and 5 MR. STEWART: I was going to say, if you were 6 environmental issues regarding PCB? 6 going to tell me it was the entire -- 7 A. Some of them may have. 7 MR. MERRILL: No, no, no. 8 Q. What other kind of documents were added, if you 8 MR. STEWART: -- archives, Charlie -- 9 know, during the time that you worked at Monsanto -- 9 MR. MERRILL: Absolutely not. 10 A. I couldn't be specific. I would be guessing. 10 MR. STEWART: -- got that in the Monsanto case. 11 I don't know specifically which documents were or 11 400,000 pages. 12 weren't added. 12 MR. MERRILL: And the MONS set is approximately 13 Q. Was that general practice continued once 13 100,000. 14 Solutia was spun off? 14 MR. STEWART: A little over 100. 15 A. I don't know. 15 A. But it's a subset of the archive. The MONS set 16 Q. Who would? 16 is a subset of the archive. 17 A. Presumably a Solutia attorney or someone 17 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Which pertain to what? 18 representing Solutia. 18 A. Health, safety and environment. 19 Q. Would the librarian be familiar with that? 19 Q. Would the MONS set include any data that was 20 A. No, she had nothing to do with the archive. 20 collected either by soil sampling, water sampling. 21 The archive was strictly a law department creation and 21 anything like that at the Pensacola plant? 22 maintained by the law department. 22 A. If such data were in the archive. 23 Q. Is that where the MONS set came from? 23 Q. Where else would that be? 24 A. The MONS set came from the archive, the PCB 24 A. At the plant. 25 litigation archive, yes. 25 Q. Maintained at the plant? Page 18 Page 20 1 Q. And how is it, if you know, was the MONS set of 1 A. Maintained at the plant, yes. 2 documents that we have received in this case selected? 2 Q. Now, what do you understand the DSW documents 3 A. By the process I described earlier. That it is 3 to be? 4 a, I'll use the term because I've heard it used, a shelf 4 A. My understanding of the DS documents, DSW 5 set, a set of, a complete set of documents related to 5 documents is that they were initially, that set was 6 those issues that are produced in response to requests 6 initially created in response to manufacturing, 7 for production of documents related to the health, 7 marketing and sales information, request for production 8 safety and environmental affects of PCBs. 8 of manufacturing, marketing, sales information generate! 9 Q. So, do you know who went to the MONS set and 9 in production requests from the early Alabama 10 selected those documents based on your interviews and 10 litigations. 11 the work that you've done? 11 I believe the D stands for Dyer. What the W and S 12 MR. MERRILL: I'm going to object to that. I'm 12 stands for, I don't know, but I think it was the Dyer 13 not going to object to it. What I'm going, I'm going to 13 litigation. It was created for that. 14 note for the record that that question calls for 14 Now it has been supplemented a couple of times. The 15 testimony beyond the matters designated in the 15 major supplement was, I believe, after your firm did a 16 deposition notice. 16 search of documents for, at the plant or other places 17 MR. STEWART: You mean I can't ask him that 17 for your litigation. And as those documents were 18 question here? 18 identified and produced, they were added to the DWS set, 19 MR. MERRILL: Well, you can ask him the 19 or DSW set, I'm sorry. 20 question, it's just, I'm saying that it's not -- 20 Q. Our litigation, you talking about this case in 21 MR. STEWART: Are you instructing him not to 21 Pensacola -- 22 answer - 22 A. -- talking about the Alabama litigation. 23 MR. MERRILL: No, I'm not at all. And by the 23 Sorry. 24 way, this might help, I don't know if he knows this, but 24 Q. So there were additional documents added to the 25 the entire MONS set was produced. There was no 25 DSW set from the litigation in Anniston? 5 (Pages 17 to 20) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006195 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 21 Page 23 1 A. That's correct. 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. What about Florida PCB? What is that? 2 Q. Now those documents came from Ms. Dyer from 3 A. All right. That is a, a collection of 3 Ascend; is that correct? 4 documents that was assembled by the Husch firm in 4 A. That, yes. 5 response to the production request in this particular 5 Q. Did you have an opportunity to go through those 6 litigation from the archive. 6 documents? 7 Q. Well, that was taken, some of that information 7 A. I leafed through some of them. Electronically 8 was taken from the archives, the MONS documents? 8 speaking, I leafed through some of them. 9 A. Well, all of the FLA-PCB set was taken from the 9 Q. Now, what we have asked you to testify about 10 archive. I believe that some of it is also in the MONS 10 today are the corporate records -- 11 set. 11 A. Excuse me. Can I, so we don't get lost, there 12 Q. Okay. But some might not be in the MONS set; 12 was another set of documents that, when you asked me, 13 is that correct? 13 that I'd forgotten about, and those were documents thai 14 A. That is correct. 14 were prefixed URS. I don't know whether you want to 15 Q. Okay. Can you tell us which ones? Are you 15 discuss those or not? 16 familiar with the way they produced it to tell us which 16 Q. Yeah. Go ahead. 17 ones or not? 17 A. Okay. URS is a consulting firm that has done 18 A. Not specifically. But for example, and I'm 18 most, if not all, of the environmental work with related 19 speculating a little bit, but my guess is that the 19 to regulatory policies and -- 20 retention manuals, which are here in this binder which 20 [The court reporter interrupted.] 21 were requested in the notice for this deposition, are 21 A. RCRA. And those documents that were in 22 not necessarily health, safety and environment 22 possession of URS were also reviewed and responsive 23 documents. My guess is that they are not in the MONS 23 documents were produced. Sorry for the interruption, 24 set, but they were produced in the FLA-PCB set. 24 but I did want -- 25 Q. Would the insurance policies be the same? 25 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) That's okay. That's okay. Page 22 Page 24 1 A. I'd be guessing. I don't really know. 1 That's fine. Do you know who gathered those documents? 2 Q. Okay. Now, there was another set of documents 2 A. Not specifically, no. 3 that you mentioned, the GNZ documents. Do you know whal 3 Q. Let me ask you -- 4 those are? 4 A. Well, maybe -- no, as I think back, I believe 5 A. Those are documents that were produced, those 5 actually that they were, they were made available for 6 are documents from the plant that were produced in 6 your review, or the attorneys for the plaintiffs' 7 response to the request. Those are actually, I guess, 7 review. Those attorneys selected those documents so 8 they're documents that were transferred from Solutia to 8 that they would like to see, then they were provided to 9 Ascend at the plant and then searched by Ascend 9 you. 10 personnel and given to, I believe, Husch for review and 10 Q. All right. If you'll take a look at page two. 11 production. 11 I'll start there, and I want to see what you're in a 12 Q. Who did that review? 12 position to testify to about today on behalf of Solutia. 13 A. My understanding it was a person named Amy 13 The first one is a Corporate Records Maintenance and 14 Dyer. 14 Retention Policy of Solutia and the Pensacola Nylon 15 Q. And did she at one time work for Solutia? 15 Plant at issue in this litigation. 16 A. Yes, she did. 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And she now works for Ascend? 17 Q. Have you made yourself familiar with that -- 18 A. That's my understanding, yes. 18 A. Well, I was -- 19 Q. And what is her position with Ascend? 19 Q. -- enough where you can answer questions for us 20 A. I'm not sure. I don't know. 20 on that particular issue? 21 Q. What was it with Solutia? 21 A. Well, I'm familiar with it from my days at 22 A. I think she was an environmental manager, but 22 Solutia, and I did review the Solutia retention policy 23 I'm not sure. 23 in preparation for this deposition -- 24 Q. At the Monsanto, at the Solutia plant in 24 Q. So you are prepared to answer questions for 25 Pensacola and at the Ascend plant at Pensacola? 25 Solutia on that? 6 (Pages 21 to 24) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006196 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 25 Page 27 1 A. Yes. I don't know that I know chapter and 1 found? 2 verse without referring to the document, but I'm, I'm 2 A. Yes, in the archive. 3 here to answer questions. 3 Q. Okay. "The existence and location of documents 4 Q. All right. And then the Electronic Data 4 regarding locations, history and time period of use. 5 Maintenance and Retention Policy, I'll ask you about. 5 waste characterization and maintenance of all landfills 6 And I assume you looked at that too in connection with 6 located at the Pensacola Nylon Plant since 1950 which 7 your review? 7 contain or which documents refer to PCBs"? 8 A. It's the same as the paper document retention 8 A. Well, again, to the extent that those documents 9 policy. 9 exist, they would have, they would be maintained at the 10 Q. Okay. And then "The existence and location of 10 plant. 11 documents regarding the topography and location of 11 Q. Would those documents not exist referencing the 12 buildings; water features, natural and manmade; sewers, 12 disposable waste on the plant site? 13 ditches and similar controls for managing storm and 13 A. I would have to check the retention manual to 14 process water; wells; surface impoundments and any other 14 be sure, but since the date 1950 is specified, I think 15 such improvements at the Pensacola Nylon Plant"; are you 15 it's possible that there were documents about landfills 16 in a position to talk about that? 16 prior, you know, to some specific date that, that may no 17 A. Well, those, those documents exist and they 17 longer exist. 18 were, are at the plant. Similar documents probably 18 I believe that the URS investigations around the 19 existed at URS since they would have been generating 19 RCRA permit would have uncovered information about tha 20 reports based on some of that information. 20 but I can't say that, that documents from the 1950 time 21 Q. When you say "those documents do exist and are 21 frame were destroyed under normal retention policies. 22 located at the plant," are you talking about all the 22 Q. We'll go to the retention policy a little 23 documents that I listed under Paragraph 3? 23 later, but is it your statement here today that 24 A. To the extent the documents referencing those 24 monitoring data that was maintained for governmental 25 do exist, they would have, you know, they would be at 25 agencies can be destroyed? Page 26 Page 28 1 the plant, yes. 1 A. I would have to check the specifics of the 2 Q. The next one is "The existence and location of 2 retention. I think there are long-term if not permanent 3 documents regarding location, general use and 3 requirements for some of those, but I would have to 4 maintenance of equipment and buildings that contain or 4 check the specifics of the document. I don't have it 5 once contained PCBs or PCB-containing substances 5 memorized. 6 including but not limited to sumps, decanters. 6 Q. We'll get to it a little bit later. Tell me if 7 condensers, capacitors, transformers, natural gas 7 you would, since you were involved in Monsanto and you 8 compressor stations and heat transfer fluid piping"? 8 were involved with Solutia, do you know whether or not 9 A. To the extent those documents exist, they would 9 any waste from any other plant was ever transferred from 10 be at the plant, although I know there are some 10 another plant to the Monsanto plant site PCB way? 11 documents relating to PCBs at the Pensacola plant and 11 MR. MERRILL: I would note for the record the 12 the litigation archive. 12 question calls for testimony beyond the matters 13 Q. In the litigation archive? 13 designated in the deposition notice. 14 A. Yes. 14 MR. STEWART: Well, I would respectfully 15 Q. And when you say the "litigation archive," 15 disagree. We're talking about the existence and 16 you're talking about the MONS set or the archives that 16 locations of documents regarding locations, history and 17 were maintained on safety, health and environmental 17 time period of use, waste characterization and 18 issues by Monsanto? 18 maintenance, and I was just asking if he knows, as an 19 A. No, I'm talking about the overall archive from 19 employee formally of Monsanto and Solutia and having to 20 which the MONS set was generated. 20 do his -- 21 Q. Okay. But I thought I included that, but I 21 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) I think you served as a 22 want to make that I get my answer to the question from 22 steward for PCB, if you know any of the waste went from 23 you. But you're talking about the archives, you're 23 the Anniston plant or any other plant? Krummerich or 24 talking about the archives include documents other than 24 any other? 25 the MONS set, and that's where those documents would be 25 MR. STEWART: The witness can certainly answer 7 (Pages 25 to 28) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006197 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 29 Page 31 1 the question. I'm just making the note for the record 1 MR. STEWART: You can have a blanket objection 2 when there's something that I believe is outside of the 2 to this line of questioning -- 3 scope of -- 3 MR. MERRILL: Okay. 4 MR. STEWART: - that's fine, Charlie. 4 MR. STEWART: That's no problem there. 5 A. I don't know. 5 A. My understanding of the use of PCBs at the 6 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) You don't know. Is that a 6 Pensacola plant was, it was only in electrical 7 possibility? 7 equipment, possibly heat transfer systems, and for a 8 A. I would be speculating to, to answer. 8 short time, in air compressor systems as a lubricant. 9 Q. You feel free to speculate. Dr. Kaley. 9 That's my understanding of the only uses of PCBs at th< 10 A. Fine. I, I think if there is a possibility, it 10 Pensacola plant for any product line. 11 was extremely remote. It was, I've never heard of any 11 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Where did you obtain that 12 policy where waste from one site within Monsanto were 12 information? 13 transferred to another site. 13 A. Basically in my course of my duties as the PCB 14 Q. Do you know whether or not PCBs were ever used 14 steward as you called it for Monsanto and Solutia. 15 in the nylon production of nylon products at the 15 Q. Give me, if you would, whether or not you'd be 16 Pensacola plant? 16 in a position to testify about the existence and 17 MR. MERRILL: I'll note for the record the 17 location of documents moralizing communications or 18 question calls for testimony beyond the matters 18 interactions with environmental and water regulatory 19 designated in the deposition notice. 19 agencies including these agencies: The Florida 20 A. I, I guess I would ask you to clarify what you 20 Department of Environmental Regulation, the Florida 21 mean by used in the manufacture? 21 Department of Environmental Protection, United States 22 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Actually using PCs, PCBs as a 22 Environmental Protection Agency, or the EPA, Corps of 23 raw material for the manufacture and process in some 23 Engineers of the Northwest Florida Water Management 24 fashion? 24 District? 25 A. No, they would not have been. 25 And I'm talking about documents that are limited in Page 30 Page 32 1 Q. Is that your testimony here today on behalf of 1 scope to those referencing the Pensacola Nylon Plant. 2 Solutia now. Dr. Kaley? 2 This can be a river; this can be a bay or its contiguous 3 A. I would say that's more my testimony on behalf 3 waters. Are you able to tell me anything about the 4 of Dr. Kaley. 4 existence and location of documents which memorialize 5 Q. Who in Solutia would know whether or not the 5 those types of communications? 6 product PCBs were used? 6 A. To the extent those documents exist, they would 7 A. Well, somebody familiar with the process to 7 have been maintained at the plant. Certainly some of 8 know whether PCBs were a raw material for nylon. 8 those documents, especially if communications with 9 Q. And where would, not necessarily for nylon, but 9 regulatory agencies, especially the EPA, probably would 10 as a part of the product that was produced? 10 have had copies in the St. Louis offices, which would 11 A. Well, I'm not, I guess I'm not sure what you're 11 have been transferred to Ascend. And there are probabl 12 asking. Certainly PCBs were used for a short time in 12 some documents that meet that description in the HRS 13 air compressor equipment at the plant which was 13 files. 14 producing nylon. 14 Q. Now that was just generally memorializing 15 But PCBs, the chemical PCBs are not a chemical part 15 communications or interactions with the environmental 16 of the process by which nylon is produced. They were 16 and water regulatory agencies about any matter. Would 17 not one of the raw materials used to make nylon. 17 the same be true, though, for the same kind of 18 Q. I understand that. 18 communications regarding PCBs with those agencies that I 19 A. Okay. 19 mentioned? 20 Q. But I'm just asking if it was some product that 20 A. Yes, my answer would be the same. 21 was manufactured at the Pensacola plant in which they 21 Q. So you're telling me that those documents would 22 used PCB? 22 be maintained both at the plant and quite possibly if it 23 MR. MERRILL: Again, can I, as long as we're on 23 had to do with EPA or DEP, it would be also in 24 this topic. I'd like to, can I, so I don't have to 24 St. Louis? 25 interrupt every question -- 25 A. There are, they certainly would be maintained 8 (Pages 29 to 32) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006198 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 33 Page 35 1 at the plant. There are, it is a possibility that 1 employee, and I may be paraphrasing it, we'll look at 2 copies of some of those documents were in St. Louis. I 2 that in more detail, it's my understanding you all 3 don't know for sure. 3 maintain those records? 4 Q. And again, what about the existence and 4 A. If that's -- as I said, I can't speak to 5 location of documents such as reports, meeting minutes. 5 specifics without looking at the document. But if 6 presentations, due diligence or other documents prepared 6 that's what it says, then that's what should have been 7 in response to or preparation for any communication with 7 done, certainly. 8 a local, state or federal environmental and water 8 Q. And that was to be maintained along with the 9 regulatory agency? And I would list the same agencies. 9 report or whatever it was they were discussing on a 10 Now that's just generally? 10 permanent basis, as I understood the retention policy; 11 A. Okay. My answer would be the same. I should 11 is that your understanding? 12 add that probably URS has documents or had, has had 12 A. I would have to check to be sure on the 13 documents that are, that are responsive to that request 13 specifics. 14 also. 14 Q. And then the. No. 10, "The existence and 15 Q. Well, while you are saying that, I want to make 15 location of documents constituting, evidencing or 16 sure that I understand that the plant itself would 16 related to environmental reports and/or laboratory 17 maintain the documents that would be responsive to what 17 testing prepared by Solutia or disseminated to Solutia 18 I ask you about in six and seven, and then the Paragraph 18 which relate to PCBs in or around the Pensacola Nylon 19 8 on page three of Plaintiffs Exhibit 1, those would 19 Plant, the Escambia River or the Escambia Bay." 20 also be located at the plant; is that correct? 20 Would those documents, are you in a position to 21 A. Yes. I would, yes. The plant would have, in 21 testify about where those exist and can you tell us? 22 my understanding, a complete file of those documents. 22 A. Well, excuse me, certainly some of the 23 But copies of some of those documents may be in some of 23 documents that exist from the 1969 release are present 24 the other, the locations, St. Louis or URS. 24 in the PCB archive. They were among those document) 25 Q. At the time -- and would that be true for No. 25 collected and maintained by the law department. Page 34 Page 36 1 9, which deals, it's on page four, Paragraph No. 9, 1 Documents generated after that period of time, after 2 that's the same type of document, reports, minutes, 2 the early 1980s, to the extent that they exist and were 3 meeting minutes, presentations, due diligence, other 3 maintained in accordance with the retention policies 4 documents regarding PCBs and having to do with 4 would be at the plant, yes. 5 preparation for response or communication with the 5 Q. Well, let me ask you this. Did you limit your 6 local, state or federal environmental and water 6 review, this deposition notice to the spill in '69 and 7 regulatory agency? 7 beyond as it relates to PCBs and the release of PCBs 8 A. That's my understanding, yes. 8 from the plant site? 9 Q. So those two would be quite possibly at URS but 9 A. Well, I don't know that I'd, I'd limit it to 10 also at the plant site? 10 that. I'm not aware of anything before that. But 11 A. Certainly at the plant site and quite possibly 11 that's the first awareness of PCBs in Pensacola that I 12 URS, yes. 12 have -- 13 Q. Now, based on your experience, Dr. Kaley, while 13 Q. -- reference -- I'm sorry. I'm talking over 14 working at Monsanto, working at Solutia, what about the 14 you and I apologize. 15 maintenance in the file of notes, memorandum, e-mails, 15 A. That's fine. Go ahead. 16 that type of communication between employees, is that 16 Q. What I had reference to is after '69. Did you 17 maintained in the files in connection with the 17 just look for documents or did you understand that 18 preparation of communication with local, state or 18 documents were looked for in the '69-70 period, 71, 19 federal environmental and water regulatory officials? 19 somewhere along in there? 20 A. To the extent that it comports with the 20 A. Those, documents related to that time period 21 retention policies, yes. 21 would have, would be in the PCB archive. And I mean, 22 Q. Well, I looked at the retention policy, both in 22 I've, I've, those were among the documents I saw in my 23 preparation for this previously and then today, and it 23 quick review of production documents, so I know some ol 24 appears that if it has to do with a conversation or 24 them were produced and my guess, my assertion would bi 25 preparation for a conversation with a government 25 that all documents related to that spill in the '69 time 9 (Pages 33 to 36) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006199 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 37 Page 39 1 frame that are in the archive would have been produced. 1 And if there are documents that we don't have, 2 Q. Well, I guess what I'm talking about is if 2 that's what I'm looking for. And if we've got to ask 3 we're talking about a release from the plant site, is 3 specifically about documents, Mr. Merrill, in connection 4 that the only documents that were provided to us as far 4 with this case, you know, almost by name before you all 5 as you know the documents that related to the '69 spill? 5 will produce them to us, or you will give us a big set 6 MR. MERRILL: I'm going to object to the 6 of documents and say, We've answered your question 7 question as worded, because to the extent it's asking 7 because the documents are there within this, when we ask 8 about the production of documents. It's calling for 8 a specific question, then we may have to go somewhere 9 testimony beyond the matters designated in the 9 and get some relief. Because that's what I'm beginning 10 deposition notice. But go ahead and answer. 10 to hear in connection with this production process. 11 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Well, I guess what I'm asking 11 If we don't specifically say that we're going 12 you though is, is it your understanding that the 12 to ask him when we say the existence and location of 13 documents were produced in connection with the releases 13 documents related to environmental reports or laboratory 14 or related only to the '69 release and the 70, 71? 14 testing, what you're saying to me is I can't ask him if 15 A. No, that's not my understanding. My 15 there were documents that might have to do with the 16 understanding is that the documents that were produced 16 release in those documents that he looked at that you 17 were all the documents available at the plant or at URS 17 all produced. 18 or in the archive related to this specific production 18 MR. MERRILL: No, you can ask him that 19 request that, that the plaintiffs made in this case. 19 question. My objection was to something different. You 20 So it would have been, to the extent there were any 20 asked him if we had, what we had produced. 21 documents about releases post 1969, they would have been 21 MR. STEWART: Well, that's exactly right. I'm 22 produced within one of those data sets. 22 asking if you've produced, if you've produced documents 23 Q. Okay. So it's my understanding, as you sit 23 in our document request. I'm here trying to find out if 24 here today, that you maintained on behalf of Solutia 24 there's something missing. 25 that they have produced for us those documents that are 25 MR. MERRILL: I understand, but -- Page 38 Page 40 1 related to any release, whether it's '69 or any time 1 MR. STEWART: - telling me that, and we will 2 after that, of PCBs from this plant site? 2 start over. We'll start over with that and some other 3 MR. MERRILL: I'll note for the record that 3 things. I'm, I'm just trying to find out if we're going 4 that question about the nature and extent of the 4 to play hide the pea today. If we are, that'll be fine. 5 production by Solutia is not a matter that's reasonable 5 MR. MERRILL: I, I, you know, I object and 6 to, designated with reasonable particularity in the 6 disagree with, you know, any comment or, or assertion 7 disposition notice. 7 that there has been any hiding the pea but - 8 MR. STEWART: Well, you and I just respectfully 8 MR. STEWART: -- deficiencies later -- 9 disagree. I mean, if, if you're telling me that our 9 MR. MERRILL: -- my point is that this was not 10 questions about the existence and location of documents 10 a deposition notice to us to discuss the, what is and is 11 related to environmental reports, which would certainly 11 not included in our document productions. That's never, 12 include releases, we're limited to asking him just 12 that's not specified anywhere in this notice. So, 13 general questions about that, I mean we might quit now 13 existence and location of documents, you can continue 14 and start over again. 14 asking him about that and - 15 MR. MERRILL: Well, you didn't, you didn't ask 15 MR. STEWART: Well, I guess that's what I'm 16 in your notice any questions concerning the production 16 asking, Charlie. 17 sequence or process by our firm. Depending on those, if 17 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) I'm asking, do you know, 18 those questions had been asked, we may or may not have 18 Dr. Kaley, if there are documents in here that evidence 19 objected to him, but that's certainly is not the 19 or relate to environmental reports and laboratory 20 designated -- 20 testing prepared by Solutia or disseminated to Solutia 21 MR. STEWART: - I'm familiar with that process 21 which relate to the Pensacola Nylon Plant? This can be 22 and, and we'll get to that in just a minute because 22 a river or this can be a bay. 23 there's some deficiencies have been raised, but I'm 23 A. To the extent those documents do exist, and 24 going to be asking him about these deficiencies and what 24 some do, they would be located at the plant. 25 the limitations were about these documents. 25 Q. And did you, in your effort to be able to 10 (Pages 37 to 40) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006200 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 41 Page 43 1 answer that question, determine whether or not there was 1 supposed to be set up to maintain waste on a plant site, 2 anything beyond this '69 spill? Any test that was 2 then certainly you would have a release if it got out of 3 performed? 3 that impoundment area, wouldn't you? 4 A. I did not -- 4 MR. MERRILL: Okay. I note for the record the 5 Q. -- had to do with PCB releases from this plant 5 question calls for testimony beyond the matters 6 site? 6 designated in the deposition notice. 7 MR. MERRILL: Okay. Now I need to note for the 7 MR. STEWART: I'm just trying to get his 8 record again that this question calls for testimony 8 understanding, Mr. Merrill -- 9 beyond the matters designated in the deposition notice. 9 MR. MERRILL: You can answer, I'm just making 10 Because it's not, it's not asking him about the 10 my record -- 11 existence of documents. You asked him if there were any 11 MR. STEWART: I understand what you're doing. 12 spills -- 12 I understand what you're doing. You can have a blanket 13 MR. STEWART: -- asking him about the existence 13 objection to anything I ask him about why we came here. 14 of documents that relate to spills beyond the '69. 14 That's fine with me. 15 That's all I'm asking him about. And if he knows if 15 MR. MERRILL: No, there, there are two 16 they exist -- 16 different sets of things and you know what the rules 17 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) -- and if so, where are they 17 are. There are things that are designated in the notice 18 located? 18 in which he's speaking for Solutia. 19 A. I have no specific information that such 19 There are other questions that you have a lot 20 documents exist. If they did exist, they would be 20 of them that are not matters designated with reasonable 21 located at the plant. I did not make a specific inquiry 21 particularity in the notice, and those are for him to 22 into spills that may or may not have occurred after 1969 22 testily on his own. And I'm just trying to distinguish 23 to pick a date -- 23 between - 24 Q. -- environmental reports be related to? 24 MR. STEWART: - we're not going to proceed 25 A. Any number of things. MPDES permits, 25 down that road. My understanding of a rule 30(b)(6) Page 42 Page 44 1 discharges of air, you know, air discharges, any, you 1 witness is he's got to determine whether or not there 2 know, violations that the State had noted for any number 2 are documents that exist and are located at this plant 3 of things. 3 site that relate to releases. If it has to do with an 4 Q. Releases of PCBs into the river? 4 environmental report, he's already said an environmental 5 A. If that had happened and there were reports 5 report would be made about that. 6 about that, they would exist at the plant. 6 MR. MERRILL: Your last question didn't ask 7 Q. Contaminated sites beyond impoundments that 7 about records, it asked him about releases from an 8 were set up for the storage of PCB waste on the plant 8 impoundment and whether, if sludge got out of -- 9 site? 9 MR. STEWART: -- I was trying to do, 10 A. I'm not sure what you're referring to. 10 Mr. Merrill ~ 11 Q. What if there was sludge located in the 11 MR. MERRILL: - to do- 12 impoundment on the plant site and there were releases 12 MR. STEWART: -- was to get around the 13 that came from that sludge, that would be an 13 objection that you're making. I won't, I think 14 environmental incident, there'd be an environmental 14 Dr. Kaley knows what an environmental report is. 15 report made, wouldn't it? 15 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) And an environmental report, 16 A. I would believe so, yes. 16 Dr. Kaley, would it not be made if there was some kind 17 Q. And should be, according to you as I understand 17 of finding that PCBs had escaped from an impoundment 18 it, located at the plant site; is that correct? 18 area on the plant site? 19 A. If there are documents related to such a 19 A. If, if there were such a hypothetical release 20 release as you alleged, then they would be, they would 20 and the regulations required reporting that release, 21 be maintained at the plant site, yes. 21 that would be, that there would be a report generated. 22 Q. Well, a release could be on plant site or off 22 Q. Wouldn't you do monitoring or testing about 23 plant site, couldn't it. Dr. Kaley? 23 that? 24 A. I suppose it could be, yes. 24 A. I can't speak to a specific, I mean to a 25 Q. If you've got an impoundment area that's 25 hypothetical. I think it depends on the particular 11 (Pages 41 to 44) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006201 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 45 Page 47 1 situation. l your discussion. I have not seen -- 2 Q. Well, let's say the impoundment area was 2 Q. -- you're saying, what I'm trying to clarify 3 designed to maintain or hold the PCB? 3 is -- 4 A. Well, you seem to have a specific incident or 4 MR. MERRILL: I'm saying that is within the 5 question or site in mind, and I'm not familiar with, 5 matters designated in the notice. The existence of a 6 with the specifics of what your site that you're 6 document about testing in the bay would, is within the 7 presenting to me as a hypothetical, that doesn't really 7 gamut of the notice. 8 seem to be is. 8 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Yeah, and I'm asking you, as a 9 I am not aware of any such release at the Pensacola 9 representative of Solutia here today, if that record 10 plant, whether hypothetically or actually, and I don't, 10 does exist? 11 so I have no idea whether there are documents associated 11 A. I have not seen that, any specific record with 12 with any such hypothetical release. 12 regard to that -- 13 Q. Okay. So you're saying that there's no release 13 Q. -- ask -- 14 from any impoundment area on the plant site? 14 A. -- review of the documents, but I am confident 15 A. No- 15 that if that testing was done, those records would be 16 MR. MERRILL: Wait a minute. I'm going to note 16 maintained at the plant and probably at URS, because UR! 17 again for the record the question calls for testimony 17 likely would have been involved in that testing, 18 beyond the matters designated in the deposition notice. 18 certainly within recent years, and those documents would 19 A. Wait, I, I believe I'd like to answer that 19 have been produced. 20 question -- 20 Q. Are there any documents there that indicate 21 MR. MERRILL: No, you can answer. 21 that PCBs have gotten out of the impoundment area? 22 A. If you could repeat the question, please? 22 A. Mr. Stewart, I haven't reviewed every document 23 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) I'm just asking you if there's 23 that has been produced in this litigation. I don't know 24 no records related to a release from the plant, other 24 the answer to that. All I'm here to say is that if such 25 than this '69-71 thing we keep talking about? 25 documents existed, they would be at the plant. And they Page 46 Page 48 1 A. I don't know the answer to whether there is, 1 would have been included, I'm confident, in the 2 exist a single document related to a PCB release. I 2 production. 3 have not seen any such documents. 3 Q. Well, I, so it's my understanding that, as you 4 Q. Do you know if there was any testing by 4 sit here today, that you didn't review the documents 5 Monsanto in the bay? 5 that were maintained at the plant or at the Ascend - 6 A. I don't know specifically. 6 not Ascend, but Solutia offices or in the archives to 7 Q. You're not aware of any testing by Monsanto or 7 determine whether or not this, my question I just put to 8 by Solutia in the bay? 8 you, is true or not? You just didn't look at the 9 A. As I sit here today, I don't have any specifics 9 documents so you don't know about that? 10 about any such testing, no. 10 A. I did not look at all of the documents that 11 Q. In the bay? 11 have been produced in this case, no. 12 A. In the bay. That isn't to say it didn't 12 Q. And that would be true if I asked you about a 13 happen. I'm just not aware of it. I have no specific 13 release into any drainage area in and around the plant 14 information about that. 14 shortly before it reaches the river, the land reaches 15 Q. Are you speaking on behalf of Dr. Kaley there 15 the river? 16 or from Solutia? 16 A. That would be also true, yes. 17 A. I'm speaking on behalf of myself there. 17 Q. But it's your testimony here today that all you 18 MR. MERRILL: Now that, that question actually 18 know, as you sit here today, as a 30(b)(6) 19 was about documents. 19 representative, when I ask you about those specific 20 MR. STEWART: Yeah. 20 documents is that if they do exist, it would have been 21 MR. MERRILL: Okay. The question was about 21 at the plant? 22 documents. 22 A. Yes. Among possibly -- 23 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) I'm asking you about 23 Q. -- provided to us? 24 documents. I'm asking you - 24 A. Yes. 25 A. I answered it I thought, before he, you had 25 Q. Would that be the same for 13, would you look 12 (Pages 45 to 48) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006202 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 49 Page 51 1 at 13? 1 material to be disposed of off site? 2 A. Yes, that would be the same answer, yes. 2 MR. MERRILL: Can I have my continuing comment 3 Q. So you don't know whether or not those 3 for this line of questioning? 4 documents do exist that are referred to in Paragraph 13 4 MR. STEWART: Yeah. 5 on page four of Plaintiffs' Exhibit 1? 5 A. Could you rephrase -- 6 A. I, I have not seen in my review of the 6 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) What level of PCBs in, let's 7 documents I reviewed, any documents that are 7 just say it's in some sludge, what level can you 8 specifically responsive to that Question 13; that is 8 maintain on site? 9 correct. But I would again say that, that if those 9 A. That would depend on a negotiated settlement 10 records exist, those kinds of records would be 10 with the EPA on how those, how those materials were 11 maintained at the plant. 11 managed. 12 And to the extent that they were dielectrics, they 12 Q. Could you maintain it in an open impoundment? 13 would have been maintained or there would have been 13 A. I don't know. 14 copies in the, initially in the files at Solutia, but 14 Q. You don't have any idea? Do you know anything 15 those files then would have been transferred to Ascend. 15 at all about what was done in connection with the 16 Q. What about the disposable PCBs and 16 disposal of that waste? What documents were there at 17 PCB-containing products at the plant site? Documents 17 the plant site related to disposal of PCBs and 18 that authenticate that or memorialize that? 18 PCB-containing products at the Pensacola Nylon Plant? 19 A. Again, to the extent that they exist, and they 19 A. Again, you seem to be referring to some 20 would exist for disposable PCBs after the PCB disposal 20 specific incident and I'm -- 21 regulations went into effect in 1978, those records 21 Q. No, I'm just asking you generally, do you know 22 would be maintained at the plant in accordance with EPA 22 about, anything at all about the documents that relate 23 regulations, and copies of those documents would have 23 to that -- 24 existed in St. Louis, but the EPA retention policy for 24 A. -- if those documents exist, they would be 25 those documents is very specific, that they can be 25 maintained at the plant. Page 50 Page 52 1 destroyed after three years. 1 Q. But you don't know, as you sit here today as a 2 So I don't, I don't specifically -- after three 2 representative for Solutia, as to whether or not there 3 years after the plant is PCB free. So I don't know 3 are such documents? 4 specifically whether those documents were maintained or 4 A. That's correct. 5 not. 5 Q. And take a look at 14. I want to ask you some 6 Q. What is meant by "PCB free"? 6 questions about that. 7 A. There is, there is a documented absence of PCBs 7 A. Okay. 8 in any equipment, either active equipment or equipment 8 Q. Do you know if any such documents exist that 9 for storage, or PCBs waiting disposal at the plant. 9 are referred to, talks about the existence and locations 10 Q. When you say "PCBs waiting for disposal at the 10 of documents memorializing internal communications or 11 plant," are you telling me that after, sometime after 11 interaction regarding PCBs in or around the Pensacola 12 1978, the plant site was supposed to be PCB free? 12 Nylon Plant, and that includes memorandum, handwritten 13 MR. MERRILL: Wait a minute. I note for the 13 notes, e-mails, letters, facsimile transmission reports. 14 record the question calls for testimony beyond the 14 meeting minutes, presentations, due diligence, and all 15 matters designated in the deposition notice. 15 laboratory testing? 16 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Go ahead. 16 A. Yes, I'm aware of such documents. 17 A. It was PCB free under the definition of the PCB 17 Q. You've looked at those? 18 regulations of the EPA, yes. 18 A. I've seen some that are, specifically with 19 Q. Would that allow you to have waste on the plant 19 regard to this question, yes, I've seen such documents. 20 site that contained PCBs? 20 Q. Okay. And how is it that you came to see those 21 A. If it was properly contained, yes. 21 documents? 22 Q. If what? 22 A. Well, a couple ways. Number one, I was 23 A. If it was properly contained, yes. And if it 23 involved in some of those communications at various 24 was not awaiting disposal off site, yes. 24 times. And secondly, in my spotty, admittedly spotty 25 Q. What requirement would there be for a PCB-laden 25 review of documents associated that have been producei 13 (Pages 49 to 52) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006203 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 53 Page 55 1 in this litigation, I saw some of those types of 1 the records that are referred to in Paragraphs 1 through 2 documents. 2 14 on Exhibit 1, matters upon which testimony would be 3 Q. Specifically what did you see? 3 required? 4 A. Well, there were documents related to the 1969 4 MR. MERRILL: Now, I'll object to that question 5 spill. 5 for the reason that it's asking a question about 6 Q. Is that all you saw? 6 something that's beyond the requirements of a 7 A. No, there were also documents related to the 7 corporation under a 30(b)(6) notice. There's no 8 remediation of the, of a pond on the site in the late 8 requirement of an investigation with third parties, but 9 1990s, early 2000s. 9 you can go ahead and answer. 10 Q. And why was the pond, if you know, remediated? 10 A. I did not speak to anyone at the plant. 11 MR. MERRILL: And I note for the record the 11 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) You didn't talk to anybody? 12 question calls for testimony beyond that as designated 12 A. Not at the plant, no. 13 in the deposition -- 13 Q. So that you'd be prepared to tell me whether or 14 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) -- one of the documents that 14 not any of these documents existed that are referred to 15 was remediated? 15 in Paragraphs 1 through 14? 16 A. Because PCBs were found to be in some of the 16 A. My understanding is that documents at the plant 17 materials in those, in that pond, the sediments in the 17 were reviewed in response to the production request ant 18 pond. 18 response of documents were produced. But I did not 19 Q. Were the documents that were related to the 19 speak to anyone specifically about the specific content 20 findings that were made at that time? 20 of those documents. 21 A. Basically, what I saw were, in my review, were 21 Q. Tell me if you would. Dr. Kaley, if there are 22 documents related to the, the agreement with EPA under 22 documents that are maintained, either at the plant site 23 which that site was remediated. Those are the specific 23 in Pensacola or at the St. Louis office, that were 24 documents I recall -- 24 reviewed which were not provided to us? Do you know 25 Q. Was that placed in a landfill on site, the 25 whether or not there were? Page 54 Page 56 1 material that was in the impoundment area? 1 Because of some decision that was made by somebody 2 A. I'd have to review it to give you a specific 2 not to provide those documents to us that were related 3 answer to that question. I believe it was placed on 3 to any one of the subject matters that you've been 4 site in a, in a, some sort of RCRA covered, I guess you 4 called upon to testify about here today? 5 call it a landfill. I don't know specifically what 5 MR. MERRILL: And I note for the record that to 6 terms were used in the documentation. 6 the extent that that question is, is asking about the 7 Q. All right. But do you know where the 7 production process from, production process in general 8 impoundment area that you're talking about is on the 8 or production of Ascend documents, that it's beyond the 9 site itself? 9 matters designated in the deposition notice. But you 10 A. No, I don't. 10 can answer. 11 Q. Okay. 11 A. My understanding is that the attorneys reviewed 12 A. Not as I sit here. 12 the documents for privilege, for example. So it's 13 Q. Any other documents that you saw that were 13 certainly possible that there were documents that were 14 related to 14? 14 in those files -- 15 A. Those are the ones that I recall. 15 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Other than privileged, are 16 Q. The spill in '69 and the 1995 impoundment area 16 there documents that you know of that were not provided 17 that they talked about remediating? 17 to us because they weren't specifically asked for? 18 A. Whenever it was. In that '90s-to-early-2000 18 A. Not that I'm aware of. 19 time frame, yes. 19 Q. So if I ask about documents generally, then 20 Q. So it's my understanding that you just took a 20 they were provided to us? 21 spot-check of the documents that had been produced so 21 A. If they were responsive to these production 22 far in preparation for your testimony here today? 22 requests, yes. 23 A. Yes. 23 Q. But the lawyers made that decision? 24 Q. Did you talk to anybody at the plant site in 24 A. Yes. Presumably. I don't, I don't really know 25 Pensacola and asked them about the existence of any of 25 the answer to that but. 14 (Pages 53 to 56) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006204 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 57 Page 59 1 Q. And you don't know who was involved at the 1 they were at Solutia took those records with them? 2 plant site in assisting, from Solutia, assisting in 2 A. Yes. 3 gathering the documents? 3 Q. Do you know how many of those employees who 4 MR. MERRILL: I'll object to the form of the 4 worked for Solutia went with Ascend? 5 question. 5 A. No, I don't. 6 A. I don't know specifically, no. 6 Q. Was it a fair number? 7 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Did you talk to anybody at 7 A. I have no idea, frankly. 8 Solutia in connection with this case other than the 8 Q. Were there some employees -- the answer to my 9 woman that you mentioned previously? 9 question indicated that there were some employees who 10 A. No. 10 left Solutia and went with Ascend? 11 Q. So, in connection with your preparation of your 11 A. That's my understanding, yes. 12 deposition here today, you did not talk to anyone other 12 Q. Was that, I guess you call it a sale or a spin- 13 than her? 13 off, was that done in such a way that the people who 14 A. I, I personally did not talk to anyone other 14 made that purchase of that plant was a separate company. 15 than her. 15 or was it created to purchase the nylon production 16 Q. Did someone on your behalf talk to anybody? 16 facility? 17 A. I believe Mr. Merrill had communications with 17 A. I believe it was a pre-existing company that 18 Solutia personnel on some of the issues, yes. 18 bought the nylon process. 19 Q. Who would that be? 19 Q. Ascend was? 20 A. I don't remember specifically. Somebody, I 20 A. Yes. 21 don't remember specifically. 21 Q. So they just took employees who were connected 22 Q. Where are Solutia's headquarters located? Are 22 from Solutia connected with the nylon process; is that 23 you still working with them? 23 correct? 24 A. No. 24 A. Some of them that they believe they needed for 25 Q. You retired? 25 their production, for their management of the process - Page 58 Page 60 1 A. Yes. 1 Q. -- existed prior, wasn't like a spin off of 2 Q. Are you working as a consultant for them? 2 Solutia -- 3 A. Occasionally, not very often. 3 A. It was not, definitely -- 4 Q. Are you working in this case as a consultant? 4 Q. -- former Monsanto employees? 5 A. No. 5 A. It was definitely not a spin-off. It was a 6 Q. Are you doing any work for Ascend? 6 separate company that purchased the nylon facility. 7 A. No. Excuse me, no. 7 Q. Well, how is it -- 8 Q. So Solutia's offices are located here in 8 A. Nylon business, there were -- 9 St. Louis? 9 Q. How is it that you all managed to produce these 10 A. That's correct. 10 GNZ, which is, as I understand it, are Ascend documents? 11 Q. That their home office? 11 MR. MERRILL: And I'll note for the record the 12 A. Yes. 12 question calls for testimony beyond the matters 13 Q. Is it located near the offices that are 13 designated in the deposition notice. 14 maintained by Monsanto here? 14 A. I don't know specifically how that production 15 A. Well, I don't know what you mean by "near." 15 process -- 16 They're within several miles of them. 16 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Do you know who went through 17 Q. Not in the same building? 17 those matters at the Ascend plant in Pensacola and 18 A. No, they're not even, they're not on the same 18 provided those documents to us? Do you have any idea -- 19 site. 19 A. My understanding was that it was Amy Dyer who ] 20 Q. It was at one time, was it not? 20 mentioned earlier. 21 A. Just a very short interim period immediately 21 Q. Amy did that? 22 after the spin-off, but very quickly Solutia moved away 22 A. That's my understanding. 23 from the Monsanto site. 23 Q. And she was the one who stayed with them as a 24 Q. Well, you indicated earlier that Ascend 24 result of the sale? 25 employees who had maintained records of their own while 25 A. She was one of those, but she was already at 15 (Pages 57 to 60) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006205 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 61 Page 63 1 the plant. She wasn't in St. Louis. 1 Q. And we are referred to there in the MONS set. 2 [The court reporter interrupted.] 2 It says MONS00001 through 100120 document collection and 3 A. Right. She was at the Pensacola plant, she was 3 to the DSW collection and the URS document collection. 4 not in St. Louis. 4 Are those documents, to your knowledge, that were 5 MR. STEWART: We've been going for about an 5 provided to us in those three sets Bates numbered? 6 hour and 30 minutes. You want to take a short break? 6 MR. MERRILL: I'm going to note for the record 7 MR. MERRILL: All right. 7 the question calls for testimony beyond the matters 8 THE VIDEO TECHNICIAN: Off the record at 8 designated in the deposition notice. 9 11:20 a.m. 9 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Well, Dr. Kaley, you have 10 [There was a break in the record.] 10 looked at, have you not, a set of those documents, some 11 THE VIDEO TECHNICIAN: We are back on the 11 of those documents? 12 record at 11:32 a.m. 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Dr. Kaley, let's go to 13 Q. From each of those collections? 14 Plaintiffs Exhibit 2, and I want you to take a look at 14 A. Yes. 15 that and I want to ask you about it. 15 Q. And when you looked at those documents, they 16 And this is a document entitled the Plaintiffs 16 had Bates numbers. You're familiar with what those are; 17 Objections and Responses to the Plaintiffs First 17 are you not? 18 Request for Production of Documents. 18 A. Yes, the documents were numbered. 19 I'm going to withdraw that, excuse me. We may need 19 Q. And in looking at those documents, did you see 20 that, but I'm not going re-number it. I'll just make 20 documents that fit of the question that was asked here? 21 this three. We may go back to two. We'll make this 21 A. I saw some documents that fit that, yes. 22 three. You got Exhibit 3 in front of you now? 22 Q. Okay. And were they distinguishable from other 23 A. I do. 23 documents that you looked at? 24 [Plaintiffs Exhibit No. 3 was introduced.] 24 A. I'm not sure what you mean by that. 25 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) And this is the Defendants' 25 Q. Well, some of these things had to do with Page 62 Page 64 1 Supplemental Objections and Responses to our First 1 reports, some of those agencies that I'm talking about 2 Request for Production of Documents, and it was provided 2 in, in Paragraph 1 ? 3 to us, it's a complete document, make sure I got the 3 A. Yeah, I mean-- 4 date here, April the 6th of 2010. 4 Q. Some of them were sent to those agencies, some 5 Just take a look if you would, at the Paragraph 1. 5 of the documents you looked at were not sent to those 6 And if you would read that, I will ask you questions 6 agencies; is that correct? 7 about that supplemental response. 7 A. Yes, there were a variety of types of 8 It has to do with permits, applications, reporting 8 documents. 9 forms, lab data or other documents in your possession. 9 Q. And some of them fit the description of what we 10 custody and control that originated from, or purport to 10 asked for here in this Request for Production of 11 originate from, or which were sent to, or purport to 11 Documents? 12 have been sent to, the Florida Department of Public 12 A. Yes. 13 Health, the Florida Department of Environmental 13 Q. And if one looked through those documents, he 14 Protection, the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease 14 could determine from the Bates numbering that was done 15 Registry, the EPA, Federal Department of Transportation 15 which of those documents were related to the question 16 or Occupational Safety and Health Administration, or any 16 that was asked here; is that right? You can distinguish 17 other state or federal department or agency concerning 17 one from the other, couldn't you? 18 PCBs generally or the plant specific. Do you see that? 18 MR. MERRILL: Again, I'll note for the record 19 A. Yes. It says "PCXs generally." Is that a 19 the question calls for testimony beyond the matters 20 typo? 20 designated in the deposition notice. 21 Q. Must be, but refers to PCB. 21 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Go ahead. Dr. Kaley? 22 A. Okay. 22 A. I didn't make that specific inquiry, but 23 Q. They responded to that. You see the 23 presumably, you could make some decisions based on thos 24 supplemental response? 24 documents, yes. 25 A. Yes, I see it. 25 Q. So if I asked you specifically for documents 16 (Pages 61 to 64) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006206 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 65 Page 67 1 that dealt with reports to these agencies or 1 objection. All I want you to do, if you've got an 2 communications with these agencies, you could certainly 2 objection, if you want to signal to him what you want 3 distinguish those types of documents from others that 3 him to say, you know, I'll leave the room and allow you 4 might appear in this 100,000 pages of documents that had 4 to go through that. 5 been provided to us in the MONS set and then thousands 5 MR. MERRILL: I'm going to instruct him not to 6 of pages of documents in the DSW and URS set? You could 6 answer because as worded, it calls for him to disclose 7 distinguish that; could you not? 7 the thoughts and impression of counsel. 8 A. Presumably, yes. I didn't try to do that, but 8 MR. STEWART: Well, he was not involved, as I 9 presumably you could make some decisions along those 9 understand it, in the process, Mr. Merrill. All I'm 10 lines -- 10 asking is if there was some documents that were 11 Q. -- make that distinction as to a report or 11 different, and if you could designate documents. I'm 12 something that wasn't a report, couldn't you. Dr. Kaley, 12 just asking - 13 as you sit here today? 13 MR. MERRILL: -- that's not your last 14 A. Yes, I guess. I mean, but again, the request 14 question. That wasn't your last question. 15 is very, I mean it's correspondence, permits, 15 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Well, let me just ask. Was 16 applications, forms, data, you know, to and from 16 there a way to designate the documents that fit the 17 agencies. I mean that's a very broad, I would think a 17 description I've asked? You could just pick them out, 18 very broad request. So, yeah, you could do that -- 18 couldn't you? 19 Q. You can certainly distinguish the agencies and 19 A. I, I don't know. In general, I mean there, 20 the request that we made; did you not? 20 certainly you could look at a document and decide 21 A. I'm sorry? 21 whether it fit in one of those classifications - 22 Q. You certainly, the question certainly 22 Q. - there are some documents that don't fit 23 distinguishes the agencies that are, that is being, the 23 those classifications in these sets of documents that 24 information being requested about -- 24 were provided to us; are there not, Dr. Kaley? 25 A. Yes, it does. 25 A. I would believe there are, yes. Page 66 Page 68 1 Q. And it talks about communications, permits. 1 Q. And so as I understand it, the response here 2 applications, you know what those are; do you not? 2 just says, take a look at the documents we provided to 3 A. Yes, generally, I mean. 3 you; doesn't it say that? 4 Q. Lab data and other document -- 4 MR. MERRILL: And again. I'm going to note for 5 A. -- my idea what they were, but yeah. 5 the record that the -- 6 Q. And some of the documents that are referred to 6 MR. STEWART: He can read, Mr. Merrill. 7 in that question are not necessarily some of the other 7 MR. MERRILL: -- testimony beyond the 8 documents that you looked at in these production? USR 8 matters -- 9 or URS rather, DSW or the MONS doc? Some of them are 9 MR. STEWART: We're talking about the documents 10 different kinds of documents than what we've asked for 10 that were provided us and the existence and location of 11 here? 11 those documents, Charlie. And I'm just trying to figure 12 A. Some of them, yes. 12 out what Solutia is relying on in response to our 13 Q. Okay. And is it my understanding that Solutia 13 questions that we asked in the interrogatories and 14 stands on its response to this request here that the way 14 request for production of documents that we provided to 15 to answer this question is just to refer us to a set of 15 you. And if he can tell me that you can distinguish 16 documents that you all provided us? 16 those, I want that on the record. 17 MR. MERRILL: I note for the record the 17 MR. MERRILL: I didn't instruct him not to 18 question calls for testimony beyond that matters 18 answer. I'm just making my, my, my observation for the 19 designated in the deposition notice. 19 record. 20 I think probably the witness does not know the 20 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) And, and is it fair to say 21 answer to the question, but if he does know the answer 21 that the response that we got from Solutia is they just 22 to the questions, then I'm going to instruct him not to 22 said. Just look at the documents that we have provided; 23 answer -- 23 isn't that what they're saying? 24 MR. STEWART: - I'm going to ask you, if you 24 MR. MERRILL: I'm going to state that asking 25 would, to make an objection and quit making speaking 25 the witness to characterize our responses to 17 (Pages 65 to 68) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006207 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 69 Page 71 1 interrogatories is a matter not reasonably designated in 1 want to ask you some questions about that. 2 the deposition - 2 A. Okay, I've read it. 3 MR. STEWART: We're talking about documents, 3 Q. Now this asks for the presence of PCBs that 4 Charlie, that you all are relying on. What we're trying 4 were collected at the Escambia River, Escambia Bay or 5 to find out is what you are relying on. And just to 5 the areas surrounding those waters or at the plant site. 6 throw a bunch of documents at somebody and say, This is 6 And again, we are referred to the DSW and URS and 7 what we're relying on, is not quite fair - 7 MONS documents. Do you know whether or not there was 8 MR. MERRILL: - I disagree with what you say 8 any testing in any of those documents that was done in 9 in specifics and generally, but it's not, what you're 9 Escambia River, Escambia Bay or the areas that surround 10 talking about and what your goals are are not the 10 the waters? 11 questions that you're asking. You can continue with 11 A. I didn't see any that specifically referred to 12 your questions. 12 such sampling, no. I don't know. 13 MR. STEWART: Well, I just want to know what 13 Q. Is it your testimony here today on behalf of 14 Solutia is relying on in connection with their response 14 Solutia that no such documents exist? 15 to this particular question. 15 A. No. 16 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) And is it fair to say that 16 Q. There may be documents that exist? 17 what they're relying on, as far as you can see here, is 17 A. Yeah, if such testing has been done, they 18 just the documents they provided to us so far? 18 would, the documents would certainly exist at the plant 19 A. They refer you to those document sets, yes. 19 and at URS, I would assume, to the extent that URS was 20 Q. Now, are there any documents that would be 20 involved in such testing, if they were. I don't know 21 responsive to this request that have not been provided 21 that they were. 22 to us; to your knowledge? 22 Q. Do you know whether or not there was any 23 A. To my knowledge, no. 23 testing or sampling done in the area that would be 24 Q. Either in Pensacola, and when you say that, 24 drainage areas on the plant site itself? 25 you're speaking for Solutia; is that correct? 25 A. I don't know specifically if there was or not. Page 70 Page 72 1 A. Yes. 1 Q. Would those documents be located at the plant 2 Q. Okay. Either in Pensacola or in St. Louis? 2 if that was done? 3 A. Yes, or at URS. 3 A. Yes, or to the extent that URS was involved, 4 Q. Or at URS. Or in the DSW document? 4 URS would also have such documents. 5 A. Well, those would be in St. Louis. 5 Q. And do you know what the purpose would be of 6 Q. Okay. By the way, when y'all turned the 6 those documents, those documents indicate the purpose of 7 archives over to Solutia, did they maintain those here 7 that? 8 in St. Louis? 8 A. I don't know the answer to that. 9 A. I believe they were maintained in North 9 Q. Take a look at six. 10 Carolina. 10 A. Page six or No. 6? 11 Q. In North Carolina? Are they still there? 11 Q. No. 6. Where would photographs and maps of the 12 A. No, no. 12 plant be? 13 Q. Are they now located in St. Louis? 13 A. At the plant. 14 A. I believe they're in a warehouse here, yes. 14 Q. Would historical photographs and maps be 15 Q. And would the additional document that were 15 maintained at the plant? Showing a historical layout of 16 added to that by Solutia during the time that they 16 the plant? 17 maintained those archives, would that be in a warehouse 17 A. If they existed, they would be maintained 18 here? 18 there. 19 A. I believe if they are part of that archive, 19 Q. Are they generally maintained at, at, by 20 they would be in the warehouse, yes. 20 Solutia at plant site? 21 Q. Where is, do you have the particular address 21 A. That's my understanding, yes. 22 for that? 22 Q. The historical data? 23 A. No, I don't. 23 A. Maps and photographs? Yes. 24 Q. Take a look at page four, please. Again, this 24 Q. What's the purpose of that, Dr. Kaley? 25 may be a misprint here, but can you read five, and I 25 A. I'm not, I don't know. Historical interest I 18 (Pages 69 to 72) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006208 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 73 Page 75 1 guess. 1 those, those documents would have been generated, yes. 2 Q. Well, if there was an impoundment or a landfill 2 Q. And what would they show? 3 area, you all maintain historical maps of those so you 3 A. They would show the location of the various 4 know where they're located? 4 solid waste management units. 5 A. Presumably, yes. 5 Q. And is there any effort made to show what 6 Q. And those would be at the plant site? 6 affect they might have on, on a particular portion of 7 A. Yes. 7 the property? 8 Q. Why would there be any need to narrow this 8 Let's just say a drainage area. Could you show the 9 request to provide exemplars of the layout of the 9 effect it might have on that drainage area? 10 Pensacola Nylon Plant? 10 A. Well, in general I would say that the RCRA 11 MR. MERRILL: Note for the record that question 11 process may or may not involve such exemplaries, 12 is asking for testimony about how counsel answered an 12 depending on how that solid waste management unit is 13 interrogatory is beyond the matters designated in the 13 being managed. 14 deposition notice. 14 Q. But if that unit is being managed in such a way 15 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Aren't there, aren't there 15 that may or may not affect the drainage area, it would 16 general maps and layouts of the plant site, historical 16 indicate that; would it not? The historical data would? 17 layouts of the plant site that have little or nothing to 17 A. Well, the RCRA, what some RCRA report would. 18 do with the use of PCBs? 18 don't know what you mean by historical data necessarily. 19 A. I don't know -- 19 I mean there are documents around RCRA 20 Q. -- at the plant site? 20 investigations that would discuss the various solid 21 A. I don't know the answer ~ 21 waste management units and what, what was in them and 22 Q. -- wouldn't there be? 22 what the condition was, and if remediation was 23 A. I don't know. 23 necessary, what the remediation options would be. 24 Q. You don't know whether they exist or not -- 24 Q. But if something drove remediation efforts. 25 A. I don't know, I don't know whether -- I guess 25 such as a drainage area or the possibility of certain Page 74 Page 76 1 I'm not -- what was your question? I'm sorry. I need 1 substances leaving the plant site and getting into the 2 your question repeated. 2 river, the reports would indicate that; would they not? 3 Q. Well, do you all generally have a layout of a 3 A. They might. Again, it just depends on the 4 plant site that's related to the use of a specific 4 specifics. I don't, I can't say that generally every 5 product, or do you have it related to just the layout of 5 report about every solid waste management unit would d( 6 the plant site itself? 6 that. But in general, if that's part of the 7 A. It would be related to a specific process. 7 investigation, those reports would indicate that, yes. 8 Generally, there would be layouts for specific processes 8 Q. Take a look at No. 7. 9 at the plant, not necessarily the use of a particular 9 A. Okay. 10 product. 10 Q. Now, this talks about press releases. 11 I mean if you're asking me is there a document that 11 advertisements, public pronouncements or warnings issued 12 says PCBs were used here, here, here and here, I don't 12 by the Defendant pertaining to, it should be PCB 13 know. But frankly, I doubt it. 13 generally and the threat -- 14 Q. Well, I would, too. So the layout of the plant 14 [The court reporter interrupted.] 15 would have to do with the production of nylon there at 15 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Or the lack of a threat of 16 the plant site, wouldn't it? 16 same to the neighbors of the plant or to Escambia River, 17 A. Yes. 17 Escambia Bay and all connected waterways. 18 Q. And then if there were landfills and that type 18 If you look at the supplemental response on page six 19 stuff, those would be noted on the map or a layout of. 19 and seven, it talks about document collections that have 20 of, that might be done historically, wouldn't it? 20 been made available, contain press releases and public 21 A. They may or may not have been, I don't know. 21 announcements issued pertaining to the temporary 22 Q. Impoundment areas would be; solid waste 22 accidental release of PCBs in 1969 from the Pensacola 23 management areas would be located -- 23 Nylon Plant; do you see that? 24 A. Well, certainly after RCRA went into affect and 24 A. I see that. 25 the solid waste management unit concept came into being, 25 Q. Is it your understanding, as you sit here today 19 (Pages 73 to 76) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006209 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 77 Page 79 1 on behalf of Solutia, that that is the only press 1 A. I don't know the answer. It would depend on 2 release or public pronouncement about a threat to the 2 the specifics -- 3 neighbors that exist in the documents that are located 3 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) -- need for it? 4 at the Solutia plant, or now Ascend plant in Pensacola? 4 A. It would depend on the specifics of the 5 MR. MERRILL: I'll note for the record the 5 situation. 6 question calls for testimony beyond the matters 6 Q. Let's just say they contaminated all of 7 designated in the deposition notice which do not include 7 Escambia Bay and it needed to be cleaned up. Would 8 publicity. 8 there not be some need to respond on the part of 9 A. Well, I would, I don't know that any of them 9 Solutia? 10 deal with, particularly with the threat to the neighbors 10 MR. MERRILL: And may I have that continuing 11 as its phrased. But I'm not aware of other, of press 11 notice to this line of questioning so I don't need to 12 releases or public announcements associated with any 12 interrupt you -- 13 other release of PCBs from the plant, and if there was 13 MR. STEWART: Certainly you can. 14 such. 14 A. I can't speak for how Solutia or Monsanto would 15 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) What about any possible 15 respond to that situation. 16 releases? 16 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) It's been your experience in 17 A. I'm not aware of any press releases or public 17 the past, has it not. Dr. Kaley, that they respond 18 announcements on, on that subject matter. 18 through the press? 19 Q. You didn't see any in the documents that you 19 A. If they're asked to respond, they do. 20 looked at? 20 Q. To such information coming to their attention 21 A. No, I don't. Nor am I aware of any. 21 about possible contamination of either a neighborhood or 22 Q. Well, the only press releases that you saw from 22 a body of water that would be located near their plant 23 Solutia in the documents that you looked at those that 23 site? 24 refer to a release that took place in 1969? 24 A. If they're asked specific questions, they 25 A. Well, honestly, in the documents I looked, I 25 respond to those questions, yes. Page 78 Page 80 1 didn't see any press releases or public announcements at 1 Q. And they have a specific methodology, do they 2 all. I saw internal documents discussing, discussing 2 not, for responding or, or model to follow under those 3 that release, and I saw some regulatory documents, but 1 3 circumstances; do they not? 4 didn't see any specifically press releases or public 4 A. Not that I'm aware of. 5 announcements. 5 Q. Now, the next one asks for all bid documents, 6 Q. Did you do a cursory review of the MONS 6 correspondence, contracts, specifications, invoices or 7 documents and the DSW documents to see if you could find 7 other documents as they, pertaining to, in the use of 8 anything like that, or did you just spot-check it as you 8 independent contractors to inventory, study, remove, 9 previously mentioned? 9 apply or dispose of toxic or hazardous substances or 10 MR. MERRILL: Wait, wait, wait. Again, I note 10 wastes at the plant, and we were referred again to the 11 for the record the question calls for testimony beyond 11 MONS documents. Did you see any of those kinds of 12 the matters designated in the deposition notice which do 12 references made in the documents that we were provided 13 not include press releases and publicity. 13 specifically? 14 A. I did. I did not do a specific search for 14 A. Specifically in the MONS documents? 15 documents related to this question. 15 Q. In any of those sets? 16 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) In the event. Dr. Kaley, based 16 A. Yeah, in the URS sets, there were clearly 17 on your experience both at Monsanto and Solutia, that 17 correspondence in the documents related to the use of 18 there was contamination in Escambia Bay from PCBs that 18 contractors. 19 quite possibly came from this plant site, and something 19 Q. In connection with the reference to the removal 20 was discovered about that say in the '90s, not '69 but 20 or disposal of PCBs from the plant site? 21 in the '90s, would there not be some response from, from 21 A. I don't remember PCB specifically, but the 22 Solutia, or frankly Monsanto or Solutia? 22 question is disposal of toxic or hazardous substances oi 23 MR. MERRILL: I'm going to note for the record 23 wastes at the plant. 24 the question calls for testimony beyond the matters 24 So to the more general question, I saw documents 25 designated in the deposition notice. 25 with regard to PCBs. I don't recall seeing any specific 20 (Pages 77 to 80) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006210 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 81 Page 83 1 documents with regard to PCBs. 1 Q. And correspondence too, back and forth? 2 Q. But if, if Defendants' counsel was, was told 2 A. There may have been, I don't know. It depended 3 that it applied to independent contractors, to 3 on the project and contractor -- 4 inventory, study, remove, apply or disposal of PCBs from 4 Q. -- pretty good-sized project, would that have 5 the Pensacola plant site, is it your testimony here 5 taken place between say St. Louis and at the office here 6 today that you did not see any such documents in what 6 on behalf of Solutia and the folks at the plant in 7 had been provided to us? 7 Pensacola? 8 MR. MERRILL: Object to the form of the 8 A. It may have. I don't know that I saw any 9 question. 9 specific documents of that type. But I certainly, for 10 A. With regard to PCB specifically, or with 10 instance, in my dealings with Anniston saw those kind o 11 regard -- 11 documents at Anniston, yes. 12 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) PCB specifically. 12 Q. Did you see any of the kinds of documents that 13 A. I, as, I don't recall seeing any that 13 I'm referring to, the correspondence and notes and 14 specifically dealt with PCBs. But again, I didn't look 14 things like that between the Solutia headquarters here 15 at every document, the URS production set or the 15 in St. Louis and any project that might have taken place 16 Pensacola production set for that matter. 16 just generally with regard to the disposal of hazardous 17 Q. But you did see, did you not, Dr. Kaley, 17 waste? 18 documents in that set that could have been identified by 18 A. At Pensacola? 19 the Bates numbers that were located on the bottom of 19 Q. Right. 20 those documents that related to contracts that they had 20 A. No, I didn't see any specific documents that 21 with outside vendors to remove or study toxic or 21 would meet that characterization. 22 hazardous waste? 22 Q. Did you see any that were related to PCBs? 23 A. Well, the whole URS data set would have been, 23 A. No. 24 would, I would, would basically fall within that 24 Q. Now if RCRA or some federal agency was 25 classification. I mean they were an independent 25 involved, there would be correspondence, would there Page 82 Page 84 1 contractor that was contracted to investigate those 1 not, between those agencies and the plant? 2 various subjects at the plant. 2 A. Either the plant or the contractor, yes. 3 Q. Is it standard operational procedure for you 3 Q. And was it your experience, when you worked at 4 all to hire outside contractors to remove or dispose of 4 Solutia, that there would be documents that pertained to 5 toxic substances when a large-sized project is involved? 5 the preparation that you all might have that were 6 A. Within, for Solutia, yes, that's definitely the 6 memorialized what you would do prior to the time you 7 case. But Solutia did not and does not have the 7 went in and met with the federal agency? 8 in-house capability to do those kinds of investigations. 8 A. I don't have any specific recollection of any 9 Q. So in the event that Solutia did anything like 9 documentation of that kind of stuff. I can't -- 10 that, it would have been with an independent contractor? 10 Q. -- meetings about it or -- as I recall, when 11 A. With the oversight of Solutia, yes. 11 the task force met, determined what to do about PCBs in 12 Q. With somebody from Solutia working with the 12 Anniston, there were numerous documents that related to 13 project manager to make sure it was done according to 13 the meetings that were held in connection with your 14 what you all had asked for? 14 efforts to do something about that. 15 A. That's correct. 15 A. I, I don't remember, frankly I don't remember a 16 Q. And where would those documents be located? 16 "task force" anyway, but I don't recall those kinds of 17 A. They could be at the plant; they could be at 17 documents there. They may very well have existed, but I 18 St. Louis; they could be at the contractor. Could have 18 don't, I don't have a specific recollection to that. 19 been. 19 Q. Well, let's just say you determined that there 20 Q. Now generally, there is correspondence related 20 was some problem with PCBs at the plant site after '69. 21 to that too; is there not? 21 You mentioned, for instance, the '95 problem, what, in 22 A. To the formalization yes, certainly. 22 the '90s, early '90s dealing with an impoundment? 23 Q. And there's also internal conversations that go 23 A. Yes. 24 on in connection with that; are there not? 24 Q. Were there not notes made by people who were 25 A. I'm sure there are conversations, yes. 25 meeting with federal officials at that time frame that 21 (Pages 81 to 84) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006211 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 85 Page 87 1 you saw? 1 Q. -- differences -- 2 A. Not that I saw. 2 A. -- differences. 3 Q. Sir? 3 Q. Which would be better to look at? The June 4 A. Not that I saw. I don't know. 4 2004 or 2002? 5 Q. So you don't recall seeing any notes? 5 A. I would think the latest. 6 A. No. 6 Q. Okay. 7 Q. Would there not be, if there were meetings held 7 A. Later. 8 between employees, among employees of Solutia, would 8 Q. Would you take a look then at, at, let's see if 9 they not keep minutes of those meetings? 9 I got, is 004476 is the page number. 10 A. I don't know. 10 A. All right. 11 Q. If it dealt with a large-sized project that had 11 Q. I think it says at the bottom of the page down 12 to do with say the removal of a huge amount of PCB-laden 12 there, and you correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears 13 waste, wouldn't there be minutes from those meetings? 13 that the company requires, company copy of relevant 14 A. I don't know. 14 correspondence and notes of conversations, meetings with 15 Q. So there's no requirement for you all to have 15 government and originating office file, and this has to 16 any kind of record made of the meetings that you have 16 do with regulatory agencies and compliance and that type 17 with or among yourselves at Solutia? 17 stuff. Looks like that record's supposed to be kept 18 A. Not that I'm aware of. 18 permanently; and am I correct? 19 Q. What about conversations that you might have 19 A. That's what it says, yes. 20 with federal officials? 20 Q. So if you're dealing with a governmental agency 21 A. I don't think there's any requirement that 21 and you have, and this was in effect, would this have 22 those are memorialized. 22 been in effect in '95? 23 Q. Well, are notes generally made about meetings 23 A. No, Solutia didn't exist in '95. 24 with federal officials? 24 Q. So, did Monsanto have a similar policy? 25 A. They could be. I don't know that they're 25 A. They had a policy. I don't know, I, as I sit Page 86 Page 88 1 "generally" made. It's possible. 1 here, without looking I couldn't say that it's the 2 Q. Sir? 2 same. I would think it would be similar. I don't think 3 A. I'm sorry? I said they could be made, I don't 3 the policy changed much when Solutia was spun off. 4 know that they are "generally" made. 4 Q. Well, can you look at the Monsanto document and 5 Q. What is the retention policy in connection with 5 tell me whether or not that -- 6 those notes that are made in connection with 6 A. I suppose I can at some point. 7 conversations that you might have with federal officials 7 Q. Do you want to do that during lunch? Maybe we 8 or state officials? 8 can do that during lunch if that's what you want to do? 9 A. I'd have to refer to the documents. I'd be 9 A. That's fine. 10 happy to do that. 10 MR. STEWART: And I've got 12:00, is that the 11 Q. Can you do that? 11 same time here, Charlie? 12 A. Sure. You're referring to Solutia? Because 12 MR. MERRILL: Yeah, same thing 13 that's why I'm here obviously. 13 MR. STEWART: What do you all want to do for 14 Q. Yeah. By the way, before you get started on 14 lunch? We can stop right here if you want to. 15 that, this may be the same, but I've got Solutia 15 THE VIDEO TECHNICIAN: We'll go off the record 16 Incorporated Records Retention Manual dated May of 2002. 16 at 12:11 p.m. 17 And then I have Solutia Incorporated Records Retention 17 [There was a break in the record.] 18 Manual dated June of 2004. Was it revised in June of 18 THE VIDEO TECHNICIAN: We are back on the 19 2004? 19 record at 12:54 p.m. 20 A. It was re-issued. I'm not sure it was revised 20 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Dr. Kaley, let's go back to 21 in any significant manner. 21 Plaintiffs Exhibit 1 if we could, and that's the Second 22 Q. It would be the same? 22 Amended Notice of the Video Deposition. 23 A. In general outline, yes. I don't, I don't, I 23 A. I have it. 24 didn't, again, go page by page, but I don't recall there 24 Q. And did you understand that you were to be 25 being any specific -- 25 designated today, let's take a look at Paragraph 3 on 22 (Pages 85 to 88) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006212 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 89 Page 91 1 page two. Did you understand that you would be l Q. Well, that talks about the existence of such 2 designated today to discuss the existence and location 2 documents which means, do they actually exist or are 3 of documents regarding those topics that are listed in 3 they, are there such documents, doesn't it? 4 Paragraph 3? 4 A. Yes. 5 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. But you don't know that, do you, as you 6 Q. And is it my understanding from your testimony 6 sit here today? 7 previously that you cannot tell me that, let's just take 7 A. I believe, I don't know, I have not seen a 8 the first word after "the," of the existence of 8 document that specifically addresses the topography of 9 documents that are related to those matters that are 9 the plant. However, I have seen documents, not 10 discussed in Paragraph 3, other than just generally 10 necessarily from Pensacola but from other places, where 11 reciting for me that they're probably located either at 11 RCRA investigations and other types of investigations do 12 the offices of Solutia in St. Louis, or Ascend, or maybe 12 investigate the topography, and I am making assumption 13 in these documents that had been provided to us, or 13 that those kinds of documents exist in the URS files 14 maybe at the plant site, is it just a maybe, Dr. Kaley? 14 because they have done those kinds of investigations. 15 A. Well, no, to the extent they exist, they exist 15 Q. Well, don't you understand, didn't you 16 today at Ascend, at the plant site, and probably at, 16 understand, as you came here today, that we were talking 17 they're probably at URS. I assume that many of these 17 about the Pensacola Nylon Plant? That that's what this 18 features that are discussed in this paragraph would lu 18 suit was about? 19 features that would be involved in outside contractor 19 A. Yes. 20 investigations at the plant. 20 Q. And that that was the plant that was located at 21 Q. Well, I guess what I'm saying is, can you, when 21 3000 Old Chemstrand Road in Cantonment, Florida, did you 22 I talk about the existence of those documents, do you 22 understand that? 23 understand that to mean, Dr. Kaley, that I'm asking you 23 A. Yes. 24 about specific documents? Let's just take one out of 24 Q. And didn't you understand your responsibility 25 that list, and can you tell me where I would find those 25 was to be able to tell me whether or not such documents Page 90 Page 92 1 documents that regard to topography of water features, 1 as this existed and where we would find it? 2 are natural and manmade? Where would I find that? 2 A. I did not review every document that has been 3 A. At the plant or in the URS files to the extent 3 produced in this case. 4 they exist. I mean those kinds of, that kind of 4 Q. No, sir. I didn't ask you that. My question 5 information is available in the kinds of investigations 5 was, did you not understand that you were to determine 6 that URS does - 6 if such documents existed, as a 30(b)(6) representative 7 Q. -- I'm just asking you really if they exist. 7 of Solutia, and the location of those documents? 8 Because the first portion of this question, and I got 8 A. Not specifically -- 9 sort of thrown off this morning, but the first portion 9 Q. -- responsibility? 10 of this morning is, if such documents exist? 10 A. Not specifically to determine if the document, 11 A. I'm sure in this particular case, such 11 every document addressed in here exists, no. My, I 12 documents do exist - 12 understood my responsibility to address the question 13 Q. Do you actually, do you actually know that they 13 that if documents to those, if those documents of that 14 exist? 14 kind do exist, where would they be and would they have 15 A. I have not seen those document, no. I've not 15 been included in the production. 16 seen such documents -- 16 Q. Who told you that? 17 Q. You've made no effort to determine whether or 17 A. That was my understanding from Counsel. 18 not those documents did exist and where they were 18 Q. So when I ask, and Counsel said earlier for 19 located? 19 Solutia, matters upon which testimony would be required. 20 A. Not specifically, no. 20 you were told you really didn't have to determine if 21 Q. Well, what did you understand your role to be 21 such documents existed? 22 as a 30(b)(6) representative of Solutia at this time? 22 MR. MERRILL: I'm going to object to the 23 A. My role was to address the questions that are 23 question as worded and then instruct the witness not to 24 addressed in your deposition, or your notice of 24 answer. 25 deposition to this - 25 MR. STEWART: Now - 23 (Pages 89 to 92) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006213 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 93 Page 95 1 MR. MERRILL: Attorney-client privilege -- 1 MR. MERRILL: I've not hidden any pea. I 2 MR. STEWART: I understand that, Charlie, but 2 disagree with that. 3 this is a 30(b)(6) representative and you've designated 3 MR. STEWART: Well, I don't. 4 him as a representative for Solutia, and I've traveled 4 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Let's take a look at four on 5 up here and hired these folks to take this deposition, 5 the next page, Dr. Kaley. Before we leave three, are 6 and you know dam good and well that the existence of 6 you telling me that Solutia doesn't maintain any 7 documents mean, do these documents actually exist? 7 documents that would be relevant to this question? 8 That's all it could mean. 8 Every single document has to do with the topography, 9 MR. MERRILL: Right. 9 location of buildings, water features, natural and 10 MR. STEWART: It's just the English language. 10 manmade, all those items that I mentioned there, all 11 MR. MERRILL: I understand. 11 went to Ascend? 12 MR. STEWART: But I'm talking about documents 12 A. Yes. 13 regarding the topography and location of the buildings. 13 Q. Every single one of them? 14 It's obvious this witness doesn't really know that. 14 A. To the best of my ability to answer that 15 He says it might be, and it might be in the URS 15 question, yes. 16 document. It's obvious that he hasn't done what he's 16 Q. Well now, how did we get the URS documents? 17 supposed to do - 17 Just, you all told us that's where they existed? 18 MR. MERRILL: -- as I noted earlier, this 18 A. Yes. 19 witness does not have the responsibility for Solutia of 19 Q. Well, how did we get the MONS documents? 20 going out to a third party company to finding answers to 20 A. That was in response to production request 21 these questions. Solutia doesn't have these documents 21 from. 22 anymore. 22 Q. Solutia? 23 MR. STEWART: Oh, so we're going to play who 23 A. From, of my understanding, of all three 24 dropped the pea, the existence, location -- well, 24 defendants, Solutia, Pharmacia and Monsanto. 25 Solutia had these documents and gave them to them. 25 Q. Are you telling me that there's no documents Page 94 Page 96 1 MR. MERRILL: Yeah. Yes. They've owned them. 1 regarding the topography, location of buildings and 2 Ascend bought them. Ascend bought these, became the 2 water features, natural and manmade, sewers and ditches 3 owner of these documents in -- 3 and similar controls for managing storm and process 4 MR. STEWART: - Charlie? 4 waters, wells, impoundments and any other such 5 MR. MERRILL: I do. And you didn't serve 5 improvements at the Pensacola Nylon Plant in the 6 discovery on them until a month ago. You waited two 6 possession of Solutia at all? 7 years after their formation to serve discovery on them. 7 A. Today, there should not be, no. 8 MR. STEWART: He's supposed to be -- why in the 8 Q. Every single document is with Ascend? 9 world did you find these documents with Ascend? Why did 9 A. Should be, yes. 10 you do that? 10 Q. In connection with any of the topics that I've 11 MR. MERRILL: I'm not here. I'm not the 11 mention here? 12 deponent today. 12 A. Well, I think some of the, some of the topics 13 MR. STEWART: Well, I know you're not the 13 have documents that relate back to historical situations 14 deponent, but you certainly provided me with documents 14 that are in the Monsanto litigation archive. 15 from Ascend, so let's let the record -- 15 Q. Where, which ones are those? 16 MR. MERRILL: -- good thing I did or you still 16 A. Well, we've talked about a number of them. 17 wouldn't have them. Because you just, you just served a 17 Q. Let's talk about them again. 18 discovery request on Ascend last month after they've 18 A. But they probably also, Solutia doesn't have 19 been in business two years and they've been in the 19 any of them. I mean that's the simple answer. Solutia 20 lawsuit for a year and a half. 20 doesn't have any of the documents. They do not have tin 21 MR. STEWART: Well, you're such a good guy. I 21 Monsanto litigation archive; they don't have the MONS 22 really appreciate that. 22 set; they don't have the DSW set; they don't have any of 23 MR. MERRILL: Apparently not. 23 these sets. They don't have any of these documents. 24 MR. STEWART: No, I don't appreciate that. I 24 Q. Who would have those? 25 don't appreciate the way you've hidden the pea. 25 A. Well, Monsanto has the litigation archive and 24 (Pages 93 to 96) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006214 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 97 Page 99 1 the document sets derived from that which would be MONS 1 A. And then when Solutia entered bankruptcy, they 2 and DSW. Pensacola plant, Ascend has the GNZ documents, 2 were all given back to Monsanto. 3 URS and their now-employer Ascend has the URS documents. 3 Q. When they did what now? 4 Q. So, none of the documents that we're talking 4 A. When Solutia went into bankruptcy, the PCB 5 about in this deposition, I mean this 30(b)(6) notice 5 archive was given back to Monsanto. 6 were the property of Solutia? 6 Q. And where are they today? 7 A. Now you've switched from "were" to "are," or 7 A. In a warehouse somewhere in the St. Louis area. 8 from "are" to "were." You were asking me today, does 8 Q. Well, then where were the documents provided to 9 Solutia have any of these documents? The answer is no. 9 us by Solutia? Where did that come from? 10 Did Solutia at one time have some or all of these 10 A. The documents provided -- 11 documents? The answer is yes. 11 Q. The MONS documents and the DSW documents, how 12 Q. -- did you look at in, in preparing for this 12 in the world did that happen? How in the world did you 13 deposition? 13 all happen to get those? 14 A. The documents that were produced in response to 14 A. The, my understanding is the discovery request 15 your request. 15 was propounded to all three defendants, Monsanto, 16 Q. Well, weren't some of those documents produced 16 Solutia and Pharmacia. 17 to us by Monsanto and by Solutia? 17 Q. I understand that, but what I'm asking you. 18 A. They were produced, my understanding is they 18 Dr. Kaley, is do you have access to the documents that 19 were produced by Monsanto, Solutia and Pharmacia in 19 we're asking you about in three, four, five, six, seven. 20 response to a joint request. Or a request to those 20 eight, nine, ten, 11, 12, 13, and 14? 21 companies jointly. 21 Those are the documents that talk about the 22 Q. Can you tell us which one of these topics are 22 existence and location of documents that, that have to 23 covered in those? Because we've been referred to the 23 do with particular topics. Do you all have access as 24 MONS documents, the DSW documents, and the Florida-PCB 24 Solutia to those documents? 25 documents. 25 A. I, I don't know the answer but I doubt very Page 98 Page 100 1 A. All of them. I mean there are documents in 1 sincerely if Solutia has access to the Ascend -- 2 those data sets that respond to every one of these. 2 Q. -- 30(b)(6) representative, and you don't know 3 Q. Okay. And do you know if those are the total 3 whether they have those, access to -- 4 number of documents, let's just say for this first 4 A. I don't know, I don't know the details of the 5 topic, that exists as far as Monsanto and Solutia are 5 sale agreement as to whether Solutia has access to, you 6 concerned? 6 know, documents that have been transferred to Ascend o 7 MR. MERRILL: And I'm going to note for the 7 not. I would have to look at the terms of the sale. I 8 record, the question calls for testimony beyond the 8 doubt it but it's possible. 9 matters designated in the deposition notice to the 9 Q. -- Ascend didn't get the archives, did they? 10 extent it refers to Monsanto -- 10 A. No, Monsanto has the archive. 11 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) I'm asking you if, if Solutia 11 Q. Okay. And Ascend didn't get the MONS 12 is the person - well, didn't you all inherit, as I 12 documents, did they? 13 understood it, you all inherited this Solutia document, 13 A. They were part of the archives, no. 14 I mean the Monsanto documents related to PCB, didn't 14 Q. Okay. And the DSW documents they didn't get. 15 you? 15 did they? 16 A. At one point. Well, I don't know about all. 16 A. Part of the archive, no. 17 We certainty at one point -- 17 Q. So, are you all out of bankruptcy now? 18 Q. -- I thought that was previous testimony. We 18 A. Am I out? I'm not. I don't work for 19 can go back over it, but I thought that was your 19 Solutia -- 20 previous testimony. I'm just trying to find the pea, 20 Q. No, Solutia -- 21 Dr. Kaley. 21 A. -- Solutia is out of bankruptcy, yes. 22 And my understanding is, from your previous 22 Q. Okay. Did they not get the archives and 23 testimony, I'm getting a little older but not quite that 23 documents back? 24 old, that you told me that you all inherited those from 24 A. No. 25 Monsanto when you all were spun off in '96? 25 Q. Those remain with Monsanto and Pharmacia? 25 (Pages 97 to 100) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006215 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 101 Page 103 1 A. Yes. I believe they have access to them, but I 1 case. Is that plant one of the plants that was 2 don't know, I don't even know that for sure. 2 transferred to Solutia? 3 Q. Now, Dr. Kaley, haven't you testified in cases 3 A. Well, the plant, there was no plant involved in 4 dealing with, dealing with PCB? 4 the Krutsinger case. She was an employee of Illinois 5 A. Yes. 5 Power. 6 Q. Recently? 6 Q. Okay. But -- 7 A. Recently? How recently? 7 A. It did not involve a plant at all -- 8 Q. Well, more recently than 1996, let's put it 8 Q. Who owned the St. Clair County facility? 9 that way. 9 A. Today? Solutia owns it today, but that 10 A. Certainly. 10 litigation had nothing ~ 11 Q. What are some of the cases you've testified in? 11 Q. -- was that one of the plants that was 12 A. Well, I've testified in a number of the 12 transferred to, to them? 13 Anniston cases. 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Have you ever testified in a case in the 14 Q. Okay. And you made an affidavit in that case 15 Southern District of Illinois? 15 in connection with a woman who was injured as a result 16 A. I may have. 16 of a blown-up transformer; is that what happened? 17 Q. Involving a Krutsinger versus Pharmacia 17 A. She claims she was injured as a result of that. 18 Corporation? 18 Q. I understand that. I understand that. 19 A. Yes, I did testify in that. 19 MR. MERRILL: And by the way, I note for the 20 Q. And were you involved in the gathering of 20 record that all of this is beyond the matters stated in 21 documents in that case? 21 the deposition notice. 22 A. No. 22 MR. STEWART: It may not be. It may not be. 23 Q. Were you involved in the review of documents in 23 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Certainly after that plant was 24 connection with that case? 24 spun off to St. Clair, I mean it spun off to Solutia, 25 A. I reviewed documents from that case but not in 25 you were an employee of Solutia; were you not? Page 102 Page 104 1 the terms of, was I involved in attorney review for 1 A. For some period of time after the transfer, 2 privileged log or anything like that, no. I wasn't 2 yes. 3 involved in a review to decide what to produce. 3 Q. How long did you work for them? 4 Q. And who were you working for at that time? 4 A. About six years. 5 A. Who was I working for at that time? 5 Q. Okay. And the suit was against Pharmacia and 6 Q. Yes, sir. 6 not against Solutia? Was Solutia involved in the suit? 7 A. What was the date? 7 A. I don't recall. 8 Q. Well, the date, I don't see a date on here. I 8 Q. You said you worked as a consultant for them? 9 just have an affidavit from that case. But -- 9 A. I have worked as a consultant. I believe in 10 A. Well. 10 that litigation, you won't tell me what the date was, so 11 Q. - affidavit involving a case against 11 I don't know. 12 Pharmacia, it was certainly after Pharmacia was formed? 12 Q. Well frankly, I don't have it on the document 13 A. I believe I was working for myself. I believe 13 that was provided to me. 14 I was retired and self-employed at the time of the 14 A. I believe I was, I believe it was after 2003, 15 Krutsinger file, I'm almost sure I was. If it was after 15 and I believe I was consulting with counsel for Monsanto 16 2003,1 was self-employed. 16 in that litigation. 17 Q. Who owned the plant that was the subject of 17 Q. For Monsanto? 18 this, the St. Clair facility in St. Clair County, 18 A. Used generically, yes. 19 Illinois? 19 Q. When you say -- because I ran into this last 20 A. At what point in time? 20 time we had to try to figure out which hat fit. But in 21 Q. At the time of that case. 21 any event, what I'm trying to find out is, were you 22 A. Well, I don't know, I don't recall what the 22 testifying not only for Pharmacia or Monsanto, as you 23 time of that case was. It was one of the plants 23 say using it generically, but was Solutia also 24 transferred to Solutia at the time of the spin ~ 24 involved? That's all I'm asking. 25 Q. Well, it was a St. Clair County, Illinois 25 A. I don't know. I don't know if they were a 26 (Pages 101 to 104) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006216 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 105 Page 107 1 defendant or not. 1 in the possession of Solutia; that is correct. 2 Q. Not aware of it. Which law firm represented 2 Q. And that has been true since the sale to Ascend 3 them at that time? 3 or the bankruptcy of Solutia? 4 A. The Husch firm. Well, hold it. Represented 4 A. Well, the documents, the transfer of documents 5 Solutia? I don't know the answer to that. The firm 5 from Solutia to Ascend took place over a period of 6 representing the defendants in the Krutsinger case was 6 months after the actual date of the sale. 7 the Husch firm. 7 Q. The date of that sale was September of 2009? 8 Q. Do you know the plaintiffs lawyer involved in 8 A. I'm thinking it was June, but it doesn't 9 that? 9 really, somewhere in that time frame. 10 A. I've met him. Given enough time, I might be 10 Q. -2009? 11 able to come up with his name. 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Is he from here? Is he from Illinois -- 12 Q. And so for months after that, the transfer of 13 A. He's from Illinois. 13 documents took place? 14 Q. Okay. And was that suit filed in Illinois? 14 A. For a period of about six months is my 15 A. If that's, yeah, I believe, yes. I mean it was 15 understanding, yes. 16 tried in Illinois, so I suppose -- 16 Q. Six months? And so what other documents that 17 Q. -- deposed? 17 are, have been looked through and provided to us, the 18 A. Yes. 18 MONS and DSW, and there's some documents with MCL Bate 19 Q. Were you deposed with reference to documents 19 stamp prefix and Florida-PCB, all of those came from 20 that were introduced in the file? 20 either Ascend, well, really from either Monsanto or 21 A. No. 21 Pharmacia? None of them came from Solutia? 22 Q. What, what were you deposed about in that case? 22 A. Well, my understanding is Solutia has "access" 23 A. Generally Monsanto's history with the 23 to those documents. So to the extent that Solutia has a 24 manufacturing and sale of PCBs, properties of PCBs, 24 responsibility to respond to discovery in these cases 25 chemical properties. 25 that involves those databases, they have access to them Page 106 Page 108 1 Q. So basically just technical information about 1 but they don't have possession of them. That's my 2 the properties of PCBs and the sales of PCB? 2 understanding. 3 A. Totally. 3 Q. Well, tell me what you mean by that? 4 Q. So the issue you were testifying about is 4 A. I mean in a case like this, if Solutia's a 5 whether or not there were PCBs in the transformer that 5 defendant and there are questions that, for production 6 blew up and injured her? 6 that require production of documents that come from the 7 A. No, I was testifying about Monsanto's 7 PCB archive, that Solutia can produce documents from 8 historical involvement in PCB issues, not anything 8 that archive in response to those production requests. 9 specific about that transformer. 9 Q. So, in fact, if there was some MONS documents 10 Q. Well, the affidavit referred to it, that's the 10 that were responsive to, let's say Paragraph 3, that had 11 only reason I asked. 11 to do with topography of some of the areas that we 12 A. Well, I mean, the PCBs in that transformer were 12 mentioned today, Solutia has the capability to take a 13 measured by someone, not us, and I was aware of those 13 look at the records that were maintained by Pharmacia 14 measurements, but that wasn't the crux of my testimony. 14 and Monsanto and produce those to us? 15 I'm not even sure I mentioned that transformer in my 15 A. If that were the case. But with regard to 16 testimony. 16 MONS, I don't think any documents responsive to three 17 Q. The affidavit did -- 17 would be in MONS, but that may be a technicality. I 18 A. Well, you haven't shown me the affidavit and I 18 mean MONS is health and safety and environmental. 19 don't recall it, so I can't really address what's in it 19 Q. Well, if there was some questions having to do 20 or not. 20 with that, such as six, take a look at six on page 21 Q. So it's your testimony here today that none of 21 three, the existence and location of documents 22 these documents that have been provided to us so far 22 memorializing communications or interactions with 23 came from Solutia? 23 environmental and water regulatory agencies including 24 A. None of the, my understanding is that none of 24 but not limited to, and it lists a number of agencies. 25 the documents that we have discussed today are presently 25 both state and federal, there would be documents such as 27 (Pages 105 to 108) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006217 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 109 Page 111 1 that in the archives; would there not? 1 A. They could be. 2 A. There could be. 2 Q. And very well would be; wouldn't they, 3 Q. And are you telling me as you sit here today as 3 Dr. Kaley? 4 a 30(b)(6) representative from Solutia that they had 4 A. Yes. 5 access to those documents? 5 Q. And you didn't see it as your responsibility to 6 A. I believe Counsel for Solutia had access, would 6 make a determination as to whether or not they did exist 7 have access to those documents. 7 as a 30(b)(6) representative for Solutia? 8 Q. Is that based on an agreement that you all had 8 A. I saw, I saw documents in the production sets 9 with Monsanto and Pharmacia when those documents were 9 that were responsive to that. 10 turned over to them when Solutia filed for bankmptcy? 10 Q. No, sir. I'm talking about to make a 11 A. That would be my understanding, but I don't 11 determination as to the existence of those, and then 12 know that specifically. I don't know the terms of that 12 where they came from? Says existence and location. 13 agreement. But that's, as I sit here as Bob Kaley, 13 Dr. Kaley. 14 that's my understanding. 14 A. All right. So the documents exists, the ones I 15 Q. Well, Solutia would have that understanding too 15 saw came from the archive. 16 because it was a written agreement that was entered into 16 Q. So, they were produced by Solutia? 17 by Monsanto and Solutia; was it not? 17 A. And Pharmacia and Monsanto. 18 A. But I don't know the details of that agreement, 18 Q. And you didn't see, as I understand it, all of 19 so I don't want to, I can't testify as to what it says 19 the documents that were referred to in six, did you? 20 or doesn't say specifically. 20 A. Well, I don't know that all those documents 21 Q. Well, wouldn't that be necessary for you to 21 even exist. That's the point. I, I don't know whether 22 take a look at that document in order to determine 22 there's, you know, I did not see any document between 23 whether or not you have the right to make a 23 Solutia or anyone in the United States, I guess that's 24 determination on behalf of Solutia about the existence 24 supposed to be states, States Army Corps of Engineers. 25 and location of documents that respond to Question 6? 25 If those documents exist, they would have been at Page 110 Page 112 1 MR. MERRILL: I'll object to the form of the 1 the plant, they would have been transferred to Ascend. 2 question, and note that in part, it calls for testimony 2 Whether I, but whether there is a actual document 3 beyond the matters designated in the deposition notice. 3 memorializing communication with the United States Arm 4 A. It's not something I determine I should review, 4 Corps of Engineers, as I sit here today, I don't know. 5 no. 5 I have not seen such a document. 6 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) But if you had access, or 6 Q. Well, the next one is the existence and 7 Solutia had access and you were a 30(b)(6) 7 location of documents that memorialize communications or 8 representative of Solutia, then you could determine 8 interaction regarding PCBs with all of those agencies. 9 whether or not the documents that I ask about in 9 environmental and water regulatory agencies. 10 Paragraph 6 would exist, wouldn't you? 10 And what I'm asking you is, are you telling me that 11 MR. MERRILL: I'm going to object, I'm going to 11 those were deleted as far as a nylon plant in Pensacola 12 note for the record that the topic that's being 12 from the archives and provided to Ascend at the time 13 acquired, inquired upon, which is whether specific 13 Solutia sold that plant to Ascend? 14 documents exist within a specific document set, is not a 14 A. No. They were, nothing has ever been deleted 15 matter of this designated with reasonable particularity 15 from the archive. 16 in the deposition notice. 16 Q. Well, then I though you earlier told me that 17 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) You know, it asks for specific 17 you all maintained in the archives those things that had 18 documents that memorialize communications, whether or 18 to do with health and safety issues and environmental 19 not they exist, or interactions with environmental water 19 issues? 20 regulatory agencies, that's what I was asking about. 20 A. If, by "you all" you mean Solutia, Solutia does 21 A. Well, those, those documents do exist. Largely 21 not own that database, that archive -- 22 at the plant and not in the, the archive. 22 Q. I understand -- 23 Q. Well, they very well could be some of those 23 A. -- do not maintain it. 24 historical documents that were located in the archive; 24 Q. No. I understand, but at the time Solutia 25 could they not? 25 existed? 28 (Pages 109 to 112) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006218 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 113 Page 115 1 A. Okay. Solutia still exists, but okay. 1 the archive. 2 Q. But had the archive and worked with the 2 Q. And what would they be, how would they be Bates 3 archive, they provided documents on a regular basis as 3 numbered; do you know? 4 Monsanto did to that archive. That's what you 4 A. How would what be Bates numbered? 5 previously told us. 5 Q. Those documents? 6 A. No. I would, I would not, I did not say they 6 A. That aren't in the archive? 7 regularly provided, presented or added documents to thai: 7 Q. They are in the archive -- 8 archive. I said there were occasions when documents had 8 A. No, I just said they -- documents related to 9 been added to that archive that were discovered, for 9 environmental incidents in the 2004 time frame, I'm 10 instance, in your sweep of the documents during the 10 almost sure would not be in the archive. They would 11 Anniston litigation. 11 have been maintained at the plant, or in the URS files, 12 But it's not a regular process. There's no regular 12 or possibly in the Solutia files. Headquarters' files. 13 schedule. There's not a process to do that. 13 Q. In what now? 14 Q. But from time to time, they were added by 14 A. What now what? I'm sorry. 15 Solutia -- 15 Q. I'm just trying to find out where we would find 16 A. That's my understanding. Well, I guess during 16 these things. That's what I'm - 17 the dependency of the Anniston litigation, if Solutia 17 A. The 2004 documents? 18 was still in existence at that particular time, it would 18 Q. Yeah. If something was done in 2004, where 19 have been by Solutia, yes. 19 would we find that? 20 Q. And those were historical documents that had to 20 A. It would either be, my understanding, in the 21 do with the interaction, let's just say you sold the 21 GNZ data set or in the URS data set. 22 plant to Ascend in 2000, was it 2004? 22 Q. Okay. And there wouldn't be any from Solutia? 23 A. Sold the plant to Ascend in 2009. 23 A. From Solutia specifically? Not, not as of 24 Q. 2009. So if there was some interaction with 24 today, no. 25 these folks in 2004, Solutia would have had a copy of 25 Q. I'm talking about there wouldn't be any Page 114 Page 116 1 it, wouldn't it? Let's just say with one of these 1 provided from Solutia in this case? That's what I'm 2 environmental agencies. 2 talking about. 3 A. Well, the plant would have, yes. 3 MR. MERRILL: Again, I'm going to note for the 4 Q. Well, not only that, but if it was a report 4 record that all of these questions about production are 5 that was provided to RCRA or EPA, copy of that would 5 beyond the matters designated in the deposition notice. 6 have gone in the archives, wouldn't it? 6 A. Well, my understanding is that the documents 7 A. No, probably not. No. 7 that have been provided in this case, all of those we 8 Q. Are you telling me that there are no, we 8 have discussed, have been provided on behalf of Solutia, 9 wouldn't find any documents that were related to the, to 9 Pharmacia and Monsanto. To the extent my understandin 10 the environmental issues at the plant in Pensacola that 10 is correct, yes, Solutia has provided documents in this 11 would come from the archives that were, were placed in 11 litigation. 12 those archives prior to the time that you all sold that 12 THE VIDEO TECHNICIAN: Excuse me, Mr. Stewart, 13 plant down there to Ascend? 13 you're putting papers on your microphone. 14 A. Your time references are getting very 14 MR. STEWART: I am sorry. I didn't mean to put 15 confusing. What I am saying is that there are certainly 15 papers on my microphone. 16 documents in the archive related to environmental issues 16 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) So the rest of them would come 17 at the Pensacola plant from some period of time, 17 from Ascend? 18 certainly those related before the time of the creation 18 A. Yes. 19 of the archives in the early 1980s. 19 Q. All right. I want to go through the rest of 20 Documents have been added to that archive on a 20 these so that I'm sure that you may have solved my 21 as-needed or as-appropriate or as-decided basis since 21 problem for me and we may have to talk to Ms. Dyer I 22 that time. But I am telling you that I would be 22 guess. 23 surprised if there are any documents from the 2004 time 23 But are you telling me that historical documents 24 frame, which is where this discussion started, that are 24 that dealt with matters that, such as, take a look at 25 from the Pensacola plant that have made their way into 25 Paragraph 8, where there was information related to 29 (Pages 113 to 116) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006219 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 117 Page 119 1 communication with local, state or federal environment. 1 A. Yes. It's, I looked it up and it's, just for 2 environmental and water regulatory agency folks 2 reference FLA-PCB-004348. 3 regarding PCBs, and that would frankly be nine, you all 3 Q. What is it now? 4 did not maintain those historical records as it relates 4 A. FLA-PCB-004348. It's the 1994 Monsanto record) 5 to this particular plant after you sold to Ascend? You 5 retention policy, and it's the section corresponding to 6 all gave all of those to Ascend? 6 the section we were looking at in Solutia. And based on 7 A. That is correct. Except for the early 7 cursory review, it's the same. 8 documents that are contained in the archive. 8 Q. So they have to be maintained on a permanent 9 Q. Yeah. 9 basis? 10 A. Yes, that is correct. 10 A. If they exist. 11 Q. So if there was some kind of problem that 11 Q. Well, oh, I see what you're saying. If the 12 existed say, Mr. Kaley, in 2001, you all would not have 12 conversation was -- 13 provided that to the archives? 13 A. Memorialized. 14 A. Probably not on a plant issue. Probably, I 14 Q. -- memorialized or a memorandum made? 15 can't say that something didn't get in there -- 15 A. Then under the policy, should have been 16 Q. I just want to know for informational 16 retained permanently. 17 purposes -- 17 Q. And I don't want to call anybody anal retentive 18 A. -- I would think that such documents would not 18 because I'm probably that way myself, but it was my 19 have gotten to the archive, that is correct. 19 experience with Monsanto, and frankly even with Solutia, 20 Q. They would have been maintained at the plant? 20 that if you all had a meeting you memorialized it? 21 A. Or at headquarters, yes. In the remediation 21 Somebody took some minutes and wrote it down? 22 group or law department or whoever, but they would not 22 A. I, I can't speak to that. I don't know. 23 have gotten into the PCB litigation archive because they 23 Q. Sir? 24 were not, at that time, subject to PCB litigation. 24 A. I can't speak to that. I don't know. 25 Q. So what I'm trying to find out is where those 25 Q. Well- Page 118 Page 120 1 documents got deposited once you sold in 2009 to Ascend? 1 A. I mean I was certainly at a lot of meetings 2 A. They got deposited at Ascend. 2 where nothing was written down, so. 3 Q. So all of those documents were maintained by 3 Q. Well, there were also a lot of meetings, you'll 4 Solutia, and when you went into bankruptcy, you didn't 4 agree with. Dr. Kaley, that were recorded -- 5 provide those documents to Monsanto or Pharmacia, did 5 A. Certainly. 6 you? 6 Q. -- in connection with that case and in 7 A. No, just the archive. No. 7 connection with the kind of problem that existed at the 8 Q. And that would be the same for documents that 8 Pensacola plant? 9 related to environmental reports and laboratory testing? 9 A. That would be a presumption on my part, but I 10 A. That's correct. 10 would assume that some of those meetings with regard to 11 Q. Same thing that relates to testing that was 11 Pensacola were memorialized in some form or another, 12 done in Escambia River or Escambia Bay? 12 yes. 13 A. That's correct. 13 Q. And so for ten and 11, there were some problems 14 Q. Under 11? 14 that existed, were there not. Dr. Kaley, with the 15 A. That's correct. 15 presence of PCBs on the Pensacola plant site while 16 Q. So all of those would have been maintained by 16 Solutia owned that plant? 17 you at Solutia? 17 MR. MERRILL: And I'll note for the record the 18 A. At the time of the bankruptcy, yes. 18 question calls for testimony beyond the matters 19 Q. But then even after the bankruptcy -- 19 designated in the deposition notice. 20 A. Until the time of the sale, yes. 20 A. I just want to read this, make sure I'm 21 Q. In 2009? 21 answering. 22 A. Yes. 22 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Sir? 23 Q. Okay. Now you were going to tell me about. 23 A. I want, just want to read these to be sure I'm 24 before I got off on this, how you, about the retention 24 answering the question. Yes, certainly with regard to 25 policy, about conversations under Monsanto? 25 the plant itself, the plant site itself, there would be 30 (Pages 117 to 120) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006220 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 121 Page 123 1 documents associated with that investigation. I don't, l A. With regard to -- 2 as I said before, I don't know whether there were any 2 Q. -- Pharmacia and Monsanto about access to the 3 documents, I don't know whether there was any sampling 3 archives after the, that written document? 4 or testing done -- 4 A. Not that I would know, and I would be surprised 5 Q. -- documents that indicate that there was 5 if there is anybody. 6 testing done on the plant site in 2001 and 2004? 6 Q. Who maintains written documents such as that in 7 A. Right. 7 Solutia? If we wanted to ask for that document, who 8 Q. There's some remediation work started in that 8 would we ask for that document? 9 time frame? 9 A. The, the agreement between Solutia and Monsanto 10 A. Correct. 10 with regard to access to the archive? 11 Q. And so, the existence and location of those 11 Q. Right. 12 documents and anything related to those documents. 12 A. An attorney. I have no idea which one. I 13 whether they exist or not, if any do, would be at Ascend 13 don't even know who's there anymore. 14 now? 14 Q. That's maintained in the law department? 15 A. Yes. 15 A. I would presume so, yes. 16 Q. All I want to do is nail that down. 16 Q. To your knowledge, it is a written agreement? 17 A. That's correct. 17 A. I, well, there certainly is a, I, I assume, I 18 Q. And the person who would know where those are 18 don't know. I have not seen that agreement. I can't 19 and would be able to tell me whether we had everything 19 sit here and tell you there is a written agreement. 20 would be Ms. Dyer; is that? 20 That is my understanding. 21 A. My understanding is that she's selected 21 Q. Your understanding is that there's an agreement 22 documents. I don't know whether she's the appropriate 22 between Monsanto and Pharmacia, that if you all were 23 person to ask those questions -- 23 called upon to produce documents in a case similar to 24 Q. -- you talked to? 24 this, that you have a right to access the archives? 25 A. I did not talk to her. I was given that 25 A. You're getting way beyond what I'm all that Page 122 Page 124 1 information by counsel. 1 confident of, but that's my understanding. 2 Q. Okay. Okay. Pardon me. You talked to the 2 Q. Well, you would have to know something like 3 lady at Monsanto, where the archive, the librarian? 3 that if you were called upon as a 30(b)(6) witness for 4 A. No, I talked to the librarian at Solutia. 4 Solutia in this case -- 5 Q. Solutia, pardon me. It just piques my 5 A. Well, I know -- 6 curiosity. Why in the world would you talk to the 6 Q. -- talk about the existence and location of 7 librarian at Solutia if you all don't have anything to 7 these documents? If Solutia has any of them at all. 8 do with those archives? 8 they have them in those archives; do they not? Or in 9 A. Because she was the person who oversaw the 9 the MONS set or in the DSW set? 10 transfer of documents from St. Louis Solutia offices to 10 A. Solutia does not have, physically have any of 11 Ascend. 11 those documents. 12 Q. Okay. I see what you're talking about. She 12 Q. But what I'm saying to you, though, is they 13 should handle those documents? 13 have access to it? 14 A. Yes. 14 A. That's my understanding based on the fact that 15 Q. Would she also be the same person who would be 15 the production in this case, specifically was propounded 16 familiar with your all's access to the archives? 16 to the three defendants and was given to you on the 17 A. No. 17 basis of all three defendants. 18 Q. Who would that person be? 18 So to the extent that that, my understanding of how 19 A. At Solutia? 19 that process would work, I assume they or their counsel 20 Q. Right. 20 have access to those documents. 21 A. Presumably one of the attorneys. I don't know 21 Q. Well, how, since Solutia was the last entity 22 specifically. 22 that was connected with Pharmacia or Monsanto, new 23 Q. Well, is there somebody there who is not an 23 Monsanto, old Monsanto, that outfit, how is it that the 24 attorney who would be familiar with the agreement that 24 process worked for the gathering of these documents? 25 you all made? 25 Did Solutia take the lead and the responsibility of 31 (Pages 121 to 124) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006221 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 125 Page 127 1 gathering those documents to provide to us in connection 1 the record when I think we've moved beyond 30(b)(6), 2 with this case? 2 because it's not reasonably designated. That's, that's 3 MR. MERRILL: I'll note for the record that 3 the whole purpose of it. 4 that question calls for testimony beyond the matters 4 A. I'm sorry. Could you repeat your question? 5 designated in the deposition notice. 5 MR. STEWART: If you just object, it goes 6 A. I don't know. 6 beyond the record - 7 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Well, who does this lady work 7 MR. MERRILL: Ifs not an objection. Oh, you 8 for that you said you talked to that had given those 8 want me, you want me to shorten it? I'll shorten it. I 9 records to Ascend? 9 can say "goes beyond the designation" - 10 A. Marsha Stoklosa? She works for Solutia. 10 MR. STEWART: -- that's all I want you to do. 11 Q. And who did the lady work for that you talked 11 You know better than that. 12 to who now works for Ascend? 12 MR. MERRILL: I don't know better than that. 13 A. I didn't talk to anybody that now -- 13 In fact, I know that I have to preserve a record when 14 Q. Or that you were told about who handles the 14 you decide to go beyond the 30(b)(6) designation, which 15 transfer - 15 you can, but I need to note that on the record so we 16 A. What was the question? She worked for Solutia 16 know whether we're in the 30(b)(6) mode or not. 17 at the time of the sale, she became an employee of 17 MR. STEWART: I frankly think we are, but that 18 Ascend. 18 will be decided by people who are a lot better than you 19 Q. Is it fair to say then that, Dr. Kaley, that 19 and me. 20 the only people that you talked to in connection with 20 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Dr. Kaley, I'm just deducing 21 these documents were people who were employees of 21 from the fact that the people you talked to, or the 22 Solutia, or former employees of Solutia? 22 people who were involved in it, talking about the Ascend 23 A. Well, the only person other than counsel and 23 records and the person who got those together from 24 representatives of counsel that I talked to was Marsha 24 Solutia to give to Ascend, that Solutia was the one who 25 Stoklosa at Solutia. 25 gathered up these records for Pharmacia and Monsanto. Page 126 Page 128 1 Q. And the only person you knew that they had 1 Because Monsanto didn't own that plant at the time some 2 talked to about the documents that were provided to 2 of these problems took place, did they? That plant was 3 Ascend was the former Solutia employee? 3 spun off in 19, what '97? 4 A. The only one I'm aware of, yes. 4 A. Yes,'97. 5 Q. Can we deduce from that that the person that 5 Q. And so the records would have been until it was 6 they went to to gather up the documents would have been 6 sold to Ascend, Solutia's records; is that correct? 7 Solutia employees? 7 A. That's correct. 8 MR. MERRILL: I'll note for the record the 8 Q. So it, and natural deduction, I just want to 9 question calls for testimony beyond the matters 9 make sure I'm clear about this because I don't know of 10 designated in the deposition notice. 10 a, can you think of a Monsanto, new or old, or a 11 MR. STEWART: Frankly, I think that has to do 11 Pharmacia employee that you talked about in preparation 12 with the existence and location of the documents, 12 for your testimony here today? 13 Mr. Merrill. It may be embarrassing, but it has to do 13 A. No, but I talked to persons representing those 14 with that. 14 entities. 15 MR. MERRILL: No, I think it has to do with 15 Q. You talking about counsel? 16 what you said it had to do with, which is, who gathered 16 A. Yes. 17 documents. 17 Q. Okay. Well, I understand that. I understand 18 MR. STEWART: Well, that - 18 that. To your knowledge, did anybody from any of those 19 MR. MERRILL: We'll disagree on this. I just 19 entities, Monsanto, Pharmacia, or old or new Monsanto, 20 made my record. He can answer the question. 20 or Pharmacia, participate in the gathering of these 21 MR. STEWART: You keep making speaking 21 documents? 22 objections. Why don't you just get over there and, move 22 A. Well, sure. I mean because most of the 23 over there, Dr. Kaley -- 23 production, the DSW set, the MONS set, and the Florida- 24 MR. MERRILL: -- speaking objection. In fact, 24 PCB set were selected from the PCB litigation archive 25 it's not an objection at all. It's just a notation for 25 which was created by old Monsanto. 32 (Pages 125 to 128) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006222 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 129 Page 131 1 Q. Well, wouldn't Solutia have an archive, I mean 1 A. I would think it would be retained 2 an index of that archive? 2 electronically, but I don't know that for sure. 3 A. I don't know that there's an index of that 3 Q. Okay. But that's what I'm trying to find out. 4 archive that exists. 4 In the event that it is a permanent record that you had 5 Q. Well, we were -- 5 to have, then Solutia has a policy where that had to be 6 A. -- Solutia doesn't have it. Solutia has 6 maintained, and some of these things have to do with a 7 nothing to do with that archive as of the day other than 7 retention time that goes beyond the time that the plants 8 possibly access to it to respond to litigation 8 is terminated? 9 production -- 9 A. I believe that's correct. 10 Q. -- do they have access to it? 10 Q. Which ones are those, Dr. Kaley? 11 A. Through counsel, I assume. I don't know the 11 A. I would have to go back and look. 12 answer -- 12 Q. You'd have to go back and look? 13 Q. No, what I'm saying, how do they have access to 13 A. Yeah - 14 it? Do they actually go to the archives, or do they 14 Q. -- make the determination? 15 have it on some kind of computerized disk? Do they have 15 A. ~ I don't know specifically what. 16 it that way? 16 Q. Well, you understand you were going to be asked 17 A. There are, there is a, a computerized system to 17 about the retention policies, so you -- 18 retrieve documents from it. 18 A. Well, I didn't memorize it, no. 19 Q. All right. Let's go to the retention policy 19 Q. Can you tell me about what documents have to be 20 for e-mails for Solutia. 20 maintained in connection with, with closure of the 21 A. Okay. 21 plants sites on a permanent basis? Years past that? 22 Q. What was that retention policy? 22 A. If I go back and review the document, I can. 23 A. It's the same as the retention policy for 23 But I don't, but I believe the closure of the plant site 24 documents, for paper documents. 24 is not a sale of the plant site. 25 Q. All right. Can I understand with you, can we 25 The Pensacola plant, presuming that's what we're Page 130 Page 132 1 have this understanding then that if there was a e-mail 1 talking about, was not closed. It was sold to Ascend, 2 that had to do with an environmental and safety and 2 and Ascend would then take control of all those 3 health matter that dealt with conversations, for 3 documents. They would no longer be Solutia documents ti 4 instance which we talked about earlier, the government 4 be retained. They would be Ascend documents. 5 officials, would that need to be maintained? 5 Q. So you're saying that a termination of the 6 A. Should have been, yes. 6 plant site would not include a sale of the plant site? 7 Q. Now, I don't use a computer, so getting into 7 A. That's my understanding. 8 water that's a little deep for me, but I noticed in the 8 Q. What happens to it on a sale of a plant site? 9 retention policies that after a certain period of time, 9 Is there some specific provision that distinguishes the 10 you could wipe it off, so to speak, delete it, an 10 two in the retention policy? 11 e-mail. 11 A. Not in the retention policy, but there would be 12 But if it had to do with something like minutes from 12 a, part of the contract of the sale I'm sure would 13 a meeting with a governmental agency or conversations 13 address the transfer of records. 14 with a governmental agency, don't you have to maintain 14 Q. Will you look at 04476? 004476? 15 those on microfiche under the policy? 15 A. Yes, I'm there. 16 A. Oh, I don't think they would be maintained on 16 Q. Am I correct that if there is a compliance 17 microfiche. They would be maintained, they should be 17 record and supporting data indicating compliance with a 18 maintained on some format. 18 regulatory agency, federal, state, county and municipal. 19 Q. Might be a, I just noticed that in the record, 19 you all have to maintain that on a permanent basis? 20 retention policy, it talked about microfiche. Even 2002 20 A. I'm sorry, where you looking? Okay. I see 21 and 2004. 21 it. I see it now. Yes, if there's a, if there's a 22 A. Yeah, I'd, I'd have to go review. I don't know 22 compliance or other record, a company copy of 23 whether they still use microfiche or not. I would 23 non-compliance or other records supporting data in 24 think -- 24 original file office, that needs to be retained 25 Q. -- better technology today? 25 permanently in the original file office. 33 (Pages 129 to 132) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006223 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 133 Page 135 1 Q. And if there's monitoring required, which would 1 disposal, yes. 2 be a part of the supporting data, then that would have 2 Q. Well, if, I know, in other words, if the waste 3 to be maintained on a permanent basis; would it not? 3 had PCBs in it, you still had to report it, didn't you? 4 A. As I read this today, yes. 4 MR. MERRILL: I'm going to object to the 5 Q. And surveys and audits, which would include I 5 question as calling for a legal conclusion. We're 6 would assume environmental audits on page 004477, those 6 getting into the legal requirements of the TSCA disposal 7 would have to be maintained on a permanent basis; would 7 regulations now. 8 they not? 8 A. If it is waste that is subject to the TSCA 9 A. I'm sorry. Let me go back to the previous 9 regulations, then it has to be reported. If you're 10 question. I want to make sure I'm reading this 10 alluding to waste in a RCRA-closed landfill, no, it 11 correctly. 11 would not have to be reported because those are not 12 Okay. With regard to your previous question, with 12 waste stored for disposal. They are waste that have 13 regard to discharge monitoring reports, as I read this, 13 been disposed of in an EPA-approved landfill. 14 they only have to be maintained if there's a 14 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Right. But if, if you were, 15 non-compliance. 15 let's say you did that sometime in the '70s, and then 16 So it says, "Company copy of non-compliance and 16 all of a sudden you decided you were going to dispose of 17 other records supporting data in originating file 17 it in some way, either on site or off site, other than 18 office." It doesn't say that if they're routine 18 what you had, would you have to report that? 19 monitoring and there's no non-compliance, that they 19 A. Only off site. 20 would have to be retained permanently. That's the way I 20 Q. Only off site. So if you're doing something on 21 read it. 21 site, you don't have to report that? 22 Q. So, if there's a company copy of non-compliance 22 A. Well, you don't have to report it under the 23 and other records supporting data in the originating 23 TSCA regulations that, that specify how to, we were 24 office file, you got to keep that on a permanent basis 24 talking about the PCB reports that are specified by 25 if it's non-compliant? 25 TSCA. They are very specific categories that you have Page 134 Page 136 1 A. If it's non-compliant. 1 to maintain records on and keep in the PCB file at youi 2 Q. If it's in compliance, you don't have keep it? 2 plant site. 3 A. That's the way I read it. Other than as 3 PCBs in a landfill would not be subject to that 4 specified by law or regulation in the above paragraph. 4 regulation. I was just giving you an example of where 5 "Copy of compliance record and supporting data in 5 something specified by law or regulation might be less 6 originating office, retention time is as specified by 6 than permanent. 7 law or regulation." 7 Q. What about documents that pertain to permits. 8 Q. Well, doesn't law and regulation require you 8 petitions, variances, waivers, orders that you would 9 all to keep those on a permanent basis? Let's just say 9 file with the government? Data that would be supporting 10 it's permits and things like that -- 10 of those? 11 MR. MERRILL: I'm going to note for the record 11 A. Are we over in the next page now? I'm not 12 that that's calling for testimony beyond the matters 12 sure -- 13 designated in the deposition notice and possibly calling 13 Q. -- top of the page. 14 for a legal conclusion. Go ahead. 14 A. Those, according to the policy, would have to 15 A. Okay. Let me give a specific example, we 15 be maintained permanently. 16 talked about it earlier this morning. The EPA and their 16 Q. Okay. So if you're making a change in the 17 PCB regulation required a PCB report from every 17 impoundment that we talked about earlier, you would have 18 operating facility as long as they had PCBs on the 18 to maintain that on a permanent basis? 19 facility. 19 A. If it was done under permit with a regulatory 20 But that record only had to be maintained for three 20 agency, yes. 21 years after the site was specified to be PCB free. So 21 Q. And at the time of the sale, would that have to 22 in that particular case, those PCB records could be 22 be maintained by Ascend? 23 destroyed after three years. 23 A. That's my understanding, yes. That would be 24 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Does that include waste? 24 part of the transfer -- 25 A. It includes waste stored for, waste stored for 25 Q. -- responsibility -- 34 (Pages 133 to 136) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006224 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 137 Page 139 1 A. -- transfer to Ascend, that's my understanding 1 Q. What I was trying to find out, if there was 2 yes. 2 engineering or technical reports that were done in 3 Q. Okay. And so to complete the circle, if we had 3 connection with a project that had to do with waste 4 conversations, or if they had conversations, if you all 4 disposal or remediation, that type of stuff, how long do 5 had conversations with governmental regulators during 5 you have to keep those at the plant? 6 that time frame that were recorded or memorialized. 6 A. As I sit here now, I'm not sure whether they 7 those would have to be maintained, too, on a permanent? 7 would fall under the ten-year requirement or the 8 A. That's my understanding -- 8 permanent requirement. I would have to either think 9 Q. -- data generated in connection with that 9 about it and read these better or talk to an attorney. 10 particular matter would have to be maintained on a 10 Q. One or two? One of the two? 11 permanent basis, wouldn't it? 11 A. One of the two, yes. 12 A. Yes, I believe that's my reading, yes. 12 Q. The project was started then in 2004, then 13 Q. So let's just say there was some test done on 13 certainly it should still be on, on site, shouldn't it? 14 the plant site around an impoundment area that you all 14 The engineering plans for that project? That would be 15 were seeking a permit for to make changes to. Then that 15 the least time that it would be required, wouldn't it? 16 data has to be there at the plant site even after it's 16 A. Well, yes. 17 sold to Ascend, right? 17 Q. Would you take a look at 004475, and it says 18 A. That's my understanding, yes. 18 "Engineering Technical Reports." Does that have to do 19 Q. What about engineering drawings in connection 19 with processes or does that have to do with technical 20 with a particular project like that? How long do they 20 reports that were related to waste disposal or any of 21 have to be maintained? Will you look at 004474 -- 21 the above? It says the year originated in '35 - 22 A. Thank you. 22 A. No, I understand. I'm, I frankly am not sure 23 Q. -- looking at the wrong thing -- 23 what falls under the classification of an engineering 24 A. Well, my problem is is that there's an index at 24 technical report. I would think that would not be 25 the front of this document with page numbers, but there: 25 plans. It sounds to me more like a write-up of a Page 138 Page 140 1 are no page numbers on the pages that I can see. 1 particular project. But I don't really, as I sit here 2 MR. MERRILL: Yeah, I noticed that myself. 2 today, I don't know what would fall under that 3 A. All right. So your question is in regard to 3 categorization. 4 facility engineering drawings? 4 But whatever it is, it is your originated plus 35 in 5 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Yeah. Let's just say you had 5 the, well, this is obviously outdated because I don't 6 a project designed for solving the problem. How long do 6 think the Webster Groves Technical Center files exist 7 those have to be maintained? 7 anymore. They've been moved back to headquarters 8 A. Ten years after the termination of the 8 believe. But, but they either have to be in the central 9 facility. I mean, I'm reading at the top of the page. 9 file, the plant file, or some file storage facility for 10 If you're further down. 10 35 years, yes. 11 Q. I'm looking, project, well actually, facility 11 Q. When you're talking about that, are you talking 12 engineering drawings. Does that have to do with product 12 about what I was discussing - 13 or does that have to do with the project? That's the 13 A. Yes. 14 reason I ask. 14 Q. -- Dr. Kaley? 15 A. Well, okay. Because there's facility and then 15 A. Yes, it's Dl. The engineering technical 16 there's, again, I'm not an engineer. I don't know the 16 reports. 17 specifics of these, of what's characterized here. 17 Q. Okay. Now you talking about something that 18 The retention times are the same so maybe it doesn' t 18 might apply to waste disposal or something to do with 19 matter so much. But my understanding is the facility 19 the remediation of a particular area on the plant site 20 engineer drawings would be the layout of the facility 20 because of a release of some toxic substance? 21 where the buildings are located -- 21 A. I doubt it. 22 Q. - trying to find - 22 Q. What would you be talking about again? Just 23 A. -- product engineering would be the specific 23 something to do - 24 designs for the process itself, for the individual 24 A. -- engineering projects, yes. 25 processes. Where the reactors are. 25 Q. Well, on 004474, it says "project files." And 35 (Pages 137 to 140) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006225 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 141 Page 143 1 it talks about closed project files prepared in 1 they would have to be maintained on a permanent basis. 2 accordance with Procedure 106, and it says "retention 2 so the e-mail would be, too, wouldn't it? 3 time up to ten years after completion of the project"? 3 A. That's what this policy says, yes. 4 A. Yes. 4 Q. But if you delete it, and I saw the policy 5 Q. What does that refer to? 5 earlier and I can't go to it right now, but if you 6 A. I don't know. 6 delete it within 60 days, it's my understanding from 7 Q. Would that be a project similar to what I was 7 previous conversation with you that that document has to 8 talking about? 8 be stored in some way on a permanent basis? 9 A. I don't know what's, I mean this is, this is 9 A. Yes. I mean it says that specifically here. 10 for Monsanto's engineering department, central 10 It says, "It is the individual user's responsibility to 11 engineering, so - 11 determine the applicable retention period and whether to 12 Q. -- this is Solutia we're talking - 12 maintain the e-mail in printed format, in appropriate 13 A. Solutia. Okay. I'm sorry. I do the same 13 hard copy files, or on the user's hard drive, or a 14 thing. I use them interchangeably. I apologize. For 14 network server, or to some other storage media." 15 Solutia's engineering department - 15 So then it would be out of the documents that were 16 MR. STEWART: You want to mark that in the 16 being routinely deleted by the information technology 17 record? That he uses that interchangeably? 17 department. 18 A. I do, when I'm careless. The, so I'm not sure 18 Q. Now did Solutia maintain back-up tapes? 19 exactly what this refers to. Most of the engineering 19 A. It says it does. 20 drawings for the project, which I assume you're 20 Q. And were those back-up tapes turned over to 21 referring to, would be in the URS files. And I assume 21 Ascend? 22 that the retention policy applies to our contractors, 22 A. Well, based on this policy, the back-up tapes 23 but again, I don't know that for sure. 23 are not, you know, they are not to be used to maintain 24 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Well, they provide you with 24 the kinds of records we've been talking about. 25 documents; do they not -- 25 Q. But were they retained -- Page 142 Page 144 1 A. That's true. You're correct. 1 A. I have no, I don't know the answer to that. 2 Q. -- it's your document -- 2 Q. Who would know the answer to that? 3 A. You're correct. You're absolutely correct. 3 A. Someone in the Solutia IT department I assume, 4 Q. Okay. And then documents on page 4477, we've 4 or someone at Ascend. 5 cleared up that documents pertain to permits. 5 Q. Do you know who that person might be? 6 registrations, which would include, I would assume. 6 A. I have no idea. 7 supporting data which could be testing by anybody, your 7 Q. And if you look at 004461,1 want you to know 8 company or URS, whoever did the testing, that has to be 8 that I wasn't crazy when I said what I did. There's a 9 maintained on a permanent basis, doesn't it? 9 paragraph down there that says, "After microfilming, 10 A. I would read it that way, yes. But again, not 10 once the paper's been microfilmed" - 11 necessarily permanently by Solutia because those kinds 11 A. -- I wasn't questioning - 12 of documents would be transferred to the purchaser of a 12 Q. I just want you to know that I didn't make it 13 facility. 13 up. That it was on microfiche, but my understanding. 14 Q. But they would have to maintain it on a 14 Now was there a policy at the time that you worked for 15 permanent basis, wouldn't they? 15 Solutia up until 2003 about what was retained in 16 A. I think it would then fall under their, their 16 connection with the litigation that was ongoing? 17 document retention policy and I, as I sit here, don't 17 A. My understanding was that anything contained, 18 know Ascend's document retention policy. 18 pertaining to ongoing litigation was to be retained. 19 Q. On page 004460, let's take a look at some of 19 Q. Until the litigation was completed? 20 those things there dealing with e-mails. If an e-mail 20 A. Yes. 21 dealt with some of the issues that we mentioned earlier 21 Q. And is that not covered in this Record 22 that had to be maintained on a permanent basis, in other 22 Retention Policy Manual? 23 words, there were conversations that were recorded by 23 A. I believe, I thought it was actually. 24 way of e-mail that had to do with conversations with 24 Q. That was my understanding. 25 government officials or agencies, preparation for that. 25 A. When I reviewed, I thought I read something to 36 (Pages 141 to 144) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006226 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 145 Page 147 1 that. 1 A. I'm sorry. It's on page 4493. 2 Q. Let's take a look at 004465. 2 Q. Do you know what the Corlew litigation is? 3 A. Okay. 3 A. I may have at one time, but as I sit here 4 Q. And dealing with photographs and videotapes and 4 today, no. 5 film, if there were photographs taken or videotapes or 5 Q. Did the MONS documents provide us with chemical 6 film taken in connection with a permit application, is 6 safety data sheets, material safety data sheet, or was 7 that your understanding that it, that was used in 7 that in the DWS, or DSW document? 8 connection with a permit, it would have to be maintained 8 A. I don't know. They should be in the MONS set. 9 on a permanent basis? 9 Q. Did you see any metrological data in the 10 A. Yes, that's what it says. 10 documents that were, does that exist? 11 Q. Would that be true for mapping? 11 A. I don't know whether it exists. I didn't see 12 A. If it were, yes. I mean I says "maintain and 12 any. 13 record in accordance with retention period for the 13 Q. Any document having to do with hydrology of 14 record category." So if it pertained to one of those 14 that area there? Did you see any of that? 15 record categories, that that was permanent, yes, it 15 A. Yeah, I believe some of the URS reports talks 16 would be. 16 about hydrology. 17 Q. So if somebody tells me that they're going to 17 Q. Did you see any waste manifest, bills of 18 give me exemplars of something, and yet those documents 18 lading, internal memos, correspondence? 19 that I referred to, either maps or photographs, were, 19 A. I didn't -- 20 had to be maintained permanently if it had to do with 20 Q. Lots of other documents pertaining to waste 21 disposal of waste or permitting, that type stuff, the 21 disposal at the plant? 22 exemplar wouldn't do the trick, would it, Dr. Kaley? 22 A. I didn't in this review, but I know they 23 They'd all be there if they were all related to that if 23 existed in the PCB compliance documents that were 24 they were to be maintained on a permanent basis, 24 maintained at the plant, so. 25 wouldn't they? 25 Q. So that would be in those Ascend documents? Page 146 Page 148 1 MR. MERRILL: I'll object to the form of the 1 A. Ascend. 2 question. 2 Q. Now what do you know about, or what did you see 3 A. 1,1- 3 in these documents about the plant or wells in the 4 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) The only reason I ask that 4 vicinity of the plant that were under control of the 5 question is, we've been told that they would give us 5 plant down there? 6 exemplars of layouts, exemplars. Frankly, I don't 6 A. I didn't see anything specifically. But again, 7 understand what that means. 7 that's the kind of information that would have been 8 If they have to do with a plant site and solid waste 8 covered thoroughly in any of the URS documents with 9 management units or RCRA closure, then they're to be 9 regard to the plant. 10 maintained on a permanent basis, aren't they? 10 Q. Was there ever any criminal investigation 11 A. If they're associated with one of those 11 against the defendant in connection with their operation 12 categories, yes. 12 of this particular plant? 13 Q. So if there were 50 and we got three, then 13 A. I have no idea. 14 we're missing some, aren't we? 14 Q. Now you have provided us, I believe, with a 15 A. That's your hypothetical. I don't, I don't 15 corporate organization of Monsanto, Pharmacia 16 know how the decisions were made and what the basis for 16 Corporation and Solutia, Inc.; is that right? 17 those was. 17 A. There are a number of documents related to 18 Q. Neither do I. Neither do I. I believe that's 18 corporate structure that have been produced, yes. 19 all I have of that retention policy for the time being. 19 Q. Is Solutia connected in any way with Pharmacia 20 I want to go back to this -- 20 or Monsanto or new Monsanto? 21 A. Can I go, I mean, there is a section on legal 21 MR. MERRILL: Object to the form of the 22 and it says "court files and work papers and law 22 question. "Connected in any way," but. Could you, are 23 department file for litigation and claims," and it does 23 you talking about a legal, a formal, structural or a 24 say until completion of litigation, so. 24 legal -- 25 Q. That's what I thought. Where is that? What -- 25 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) -- part of the corporate 37 (Pages 145 to 148) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006227 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 149 Page 151 1 organization of Monsanto Company or new Monsanto -- 1 talking about Solutia. 2 A. No. 2 MR. MERRILL: Your, your question was not clear 3 Q. Separate company ~ 3 on that. It spoke in the present tense. 4 A. Totally separate. 4 MR. STEWART: No. I assumed that you put him 5 Q. What about Pharmacia and Monsanto and new 5 up to talk for Solutia. If you put him up to talk for 6 Monsanto? Are they all owned by Pharmacia? 6 Ascend, hell. I'll be glad to start all over my 7 A. New Monsanto is totally separate. 7 questions -- 8 Q. So new Monsanto is separate; Solutia is 8 MR. MERRILL: -- did not. That's what I was 9 separate? 9 trying to make. 10 A. That's correct. 10 MR. STEWART: Well, I'm not talking to 11 Q. And the corporation Pharmacia, is that the 11 Dr. Kaley about it. I'm talking about Solutia. 12 owner of old Monsanto or is that old Monsanto -- 12 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Do you all keep them off site 13 A. It is old Monsanto. 13 or on the plant? 14 Q. So Pharmacia Corporation is a separate entity 14 A. Probably both. I mean, I, the URS documents, 15 from new Monsanto? 15 there would be a complete set at URS. There may or maj 16 A. Totally, yes. 16 not be a complete set or have been a complete set at the 17 Q. And Solutia is a separate entity? 17 plant -- 18 A. From both of those. 18 Q. -- could have been some of them at the plant? 19 Q. So they're all three separate defendants; is 19 A. Certainly. 20 that correct? 20 Q. Were there some maintained in St. Louis? 21 A. That's my understanding, yes. 21 A. There could have been some in St. Louis, yes. 22 Q. When new Monsanto was created, did it assume 22 I don't know that specifically, but I would assume that 23 any of the responsibilities for the liabilities that 23 the, that some of the environmental people in St. Louis 24 occurred, if you know, Dr. Kaley, at plants that were 24 had access to those documents. 25 previously owned by old Monsanto? 25 Whether they kept them or not and stored them, I Page 150 Page 152 1 MR. MERRILL: I'll note for the record that 1 don't know because they wouldn't have had the 2 question calls for testimony beyond the matters 2 responsibility for storing them. But they probably at 3 designated in the deposition notice. 3 least passed through St. Louis. 4 A. I don't know the details of the separation 4 Q. Are those documents that are maintained, that 5 agreements. I don't know. 5 were maintained by Solutia off site, were they in 6 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) Give me just a second. Give 6 electronic form or were they hard copy paper? 7 me a minute. Are all the environmental documents that 7 A. At URS? 8 are related to the Pensacola plant kept off site such as 8 Q. Yeah. 9 the tests for the presence of hazardous substances on 9 A. I, you probably know the answer better than I, 10 the plant site? 10 or somebody, somebody reviewing them. I don't know. I 11 A. By off site, you mean off the plant site? 11 assume there's paper copies. There probably are both, 12 Q. Yeah. We were referred to URS earlier. Are 12 but I'm sure there are paper copies because they would 13 some of those kept on site in Pensacola? 13 have had to file with the government -- 14 MR. MERRILL: I note for the record that that 14 Q. Are the indexes of those records that are 15 question calls for testimony beyond matters designated 15 maintained, that were maintained by Solutia on site? 16 in the deposition to the extent it's beyond Solutia -- 16 A. I don't know. 17 MR. STEWART: -- location of those documents 17 Q. Who would know that from Solutia? 18 and that's what I'm asking about. I'm just asking are 18 A. Probably Amy Dyer who's now with Ascend, I 19 the environmental documents that we referred to in our 19 guess. By on site you mean at the plant? 20 questions, I can go to the specific question, but I'm 20 Q. Yeah, I'm talking about. What about Solutia's 21 not going to, are they maintained on site or off site? 21 laboratory test results? Are they maintained on site? 22 MR. MERRILL: And I'm going to object because 22 A. For what? I mean the answer is yes. That 23 he doesn't have any obligation, as a 30(b)(6) witness 23 would be my understanding. I don't know particularly 24 for Solutia to find out how Ascend runs their business. 24 what lab reports. You're talking about environmental 25 MR. STEWART: I'm not talking about Ascend, I'm 25 lab reports? 38 (Pages 149 to 152) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006228 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 153 Page 155 1 Q. Yeah, environmental lab reports? 1 Solutia? Well, I don't know, I don't know when or how 2 A. I would, they would be at the site, or at URS 2 documents were, were added, but they would have been 3 because many of them were probably obtained by the 3 added by either in-house or outside counsel for Monsanto 4 contractors. 4 or Solutia. 5 Q. How long were they kept. Dr. Kaley? 5 Q. Who, who, other than the lawyers were 6 A. If they have to do with permitting and closures 6 participants in that decision, who would have been? 7 and regulatory materials, many of them would have to be 7 A. No one that I know of. 8 kept permanently. 8 Q. Not the woman you mentioned that was the -- 9 Q. Are they maintained electronically? 9 A. At Solutia? No, no. She, she probably doesn't 10 A. I don't know the answer to that. Whether it's 10 even know the archive exists. 11 electronic or paper or both, I don't know. 11 Q. Well, back to my question I was asking, some of 12 Q. Who would know that, Ms. Dyer? 12 the Florida-PCB documents have MONS numbers that are 13 A. I presume that would be my best answer, yes. 13 higher than 100,000 to 120. It indicates that there's a 14 Q. Now we talked earlier, earlier about back-up -- 14 gap that exists between the documents we were provided. 15 MR. STEWART: Be ashamed of yourself -- 15 because they have double Bates numbers on them. 16 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) -- back-up tapes. Are those 16 There was Bates numbers for MONS and there were 17 maintained at each site? 17 Bates numbers for the Florida-PCB. And we were told by 18 A. I don't know. 18 counsel that they came from the MONS documents. So why 19 Q. Who is, who was responsible at Solutia for 19 is it that we're getting some documents that have Bates 20 organizing and keeping up with the electronic? IT 20 numbers on them, the MONS Bates numbers that are higher 21 person? 21 than that figure? 22 A. The IT person, that's all. I have no idea who 22 A. I don't know the answer to that. 23 that is. 23 Q. Well, could it mean that there are documents 24 Q. You don't know who that is? 24 that were in between those numbers that had been 25 A. No. 25 selected by the lawyers? Is that what it is? Page 154 Page 156 1 Q. Do you know what GNZ refers to? 1 A. Could it mean that? 2 A. What the letters specifically refer to? 2 Q. Yeah. That's what we assume - 3 Q. Yeah. 3 A. ~ could mean ~ 4 A. Gonzales. 4 Q. - documents that were sitting out there that 5 Q. Just the -- 5 old Donald and Samantha haven't seen? 6 A. Location of the plant. 6 A. Those, the archive is maintained by counsel 7 Q. -- location of the plant? That's really 7 through - 8 original. Well, does anybody that keeps the MONS set 8 Q. - piqued my curiosity today, just got on to 9 updated today? 9 me, because we didn't look at documents from 2009. 10 A. There's no specific, as far as my 10 After 2009, they were sent to Ascend. He was good 11 understanding, it's maintained by the law department, so 11 enough to tell us that. 12 I really don't know how it's maintained. That's the 12 He's going to find out that Don will look at every 13 best answer. 13 document he's got before it's over with. So, I just 14 Q. We've got some of the Florida-PCB documents and 14 want to know if there was a gap there. 15 they have MONS numbers that are higher than the number 15 A. I have no idea. 16 that we have provided to us. 16 Q. I may need to fill in the gap on behalf of my 17 A. Okay. Well as I said, documents are added. I 17 client. Now there's a gentleman named Merrill who said 18 don't know who does that or what, you know, how that 18 specifically to one of my colleagues that he was 19 decision has been made. But as relevant documents are 19 confident that Solutia sent documents to Ascend after 20 identified, for instance, in a search of the plant or 20 the sale, which you've confirmed for us, Dr. Kaley. 21 something like that, then those documents are added to 21 And then he stated that "we're looking for 22 the MONS set. 22 responsive documents still at Solutia." So, where in 23 Q. Who made the decision as to what to add to the 23 the world would that be? If Mr. Merrill told one of my 24 MONS set at Solutia; do you know? 24 lawyers that there was some responsive documents still 25 A. Counsel, representing, either counsel -- for 25 at Solutia, which is one of the reasons I'm sitting up 39 (Pages 153 to 156) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006229 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 157 Page 159 1 here looking at you, where would that be? 1 no, they should not be there. There may have been some 2 A. Well, if there are documents and they are at 2 possibility of shared documents that may still exist 3 Solutia, then they're at Solutia. I don't know that 3 there. I don't know. 4 there are documents at Solutia. And I'm, there, there 4 Q. Wouldn't it be the possibility of some 5 may be some files that have yet to be reviewed. I don't 5 documents that would be maintained there by people who 6 know what he was representing to you. 6 were in the remediation department that perhaps related 7 Q. Well, he also mentioned that some of these 7 to the plant down there that didn't go to Ascend? 8 documents went to off-site storage that were maintained 8 A. There should not be. 9 by Solutia prior to the time of the sale. Where would 9 Q. How did that get to Ascend? Was there a sweep 10 that be? 10 of those documents from those peoples' personal files 11 A. I don't know. 11 and sent down to Ascend? 12 Q. Sir? 12 A. Those people were told to give their files to 13 A. I don't know. 13 Ascend, yes. 14 Q. Well, am I to understand, I'm just trying to 14 Q. So all the remediation, am I to understand your 15 figure this out -- 15 testimony here today on behalf of Solutia, all the 16 A. I mean they may have gone to off-site Solutia 16 people who were working in the remediation department 17 for, to off-site sites for Ascend. Ascend may have said 17 gave documents that they had in their personal files to 18 "send them to this on site." I don't know. It doesn't 18 someone to deliver to Ascend? 19 say that they were still in the control of Solutia. I 19 A. That's my understanding, yes. 20 don't know. But I don't think it necessarily means that 20 Q. Who, who handled that at Solutia? 21 they are at the control of Solutia. 21 A. I would assume Ms. Stoklosa handled most of it. 22 Q. Well, I'm, I'm just asking. I mean I'm 22 I don't know the specific person who undertook those 23 obligated in a discovery deposition to find out every 23 files or it could have been, it could have been counsel 24 little bit piece of information I can. And if 24 managing the transfer of documents at the sale, I don't 25 Mr. Merrill was still looking at, for documents at 25 know. But the information I got, I got from her that Page 158 Page 160 1 Solutia, where in the world would he be looking? I want 1 that's, those transfers occurred. 2 to answer that question first; if you know? 2 Q. So, she said she went to each person involved 3 You're the 30(b)(6) representative from Solutia 3 in the remediation - is there a law section? Went to 4 that's supposed to know about the existence and location 4 those and got those files? 5 of documents. Mr. Merrill tells somebody he's looking 5 A. She did not say that. She said that the 6 at Solutia. He's not looking in an empty bucket, is he, 6 documents were transferred. 7 Dr. Kaley? He's looking at documents, isn't he? 7 Q. Well, does that mean the documents that were 8 A. No. He said he's looking for documents. I 8 housed in some kind of central location, or the 9 don't, I don't know whether any have been found. I 9 documents that were housed in a central location plus 10 don't necessarily know where he's looking. I would 10 the documents that people might have had in their 11 guess he would be looking in the various, or the library 11 personal files? 12 at Solutia, but I don't know the -- 12 A. Yes, all those documents that related to the 13 Q. -- personnel that worked at Solutia who might 13 textiles business, whether they were in a central file 14 have had some connection with the Pensacola plant? 14 or in peoples' personal files, were transmitted to 15 A. Well, my understanding is that, through my 15 Ascend. 16 discussions with Ms. Stoklosa, that the documents have 16 Q. Now, I don't want to beat anybody up, but what 17 been transferred to Ascend. That's my -- 17 would Mr. Merrill have meant by responsive documents 18 Q. Well, wouldn't they have, though, similar to 18 still at Solutia? 19 the ones that went from Solutia to Ascend, wouldn't they 19 A. I have no idea. 20 have the possibility of documents on their personal 20 Q. He also mentioned that some of these documents 21 computers or in their file that they maintained at, at 21 went to an off-site storage of the next tenant after 22 Solutia after they stayed there when Ascend was, was the 22 that, and I assumed, and maybe I'm wrong about it, but 23 purchaser of the plant? When it purchased the plant? 23 that would be a Solutia off-site storage. 24 A. If they were documents that related only to 24 To your knowledge, is there any off-site storage of 25 that process or to that business, the textiles business, 25 documents that were related to Solutia's operation and 40 (Pages 157 to 160) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006230 EXAMINATION BY MR. STEWART Page 161 Page 163 1 maintenance of the plant located there in Pensacola? 2 A. Not to my knowledge. 3 Q. So can I be confident in saying to my 4 colleague, "Based on what Kaley tells me, there are no 5 documents that are responsive to our discovery request 6 still at Solutia"? 7 A. No, you can say that, "According to Kaley's 8 knowledge, there are no documents that da-da-da." 9 Q. You understand, Dr. Kaley, I'm looking at you 10 and I'm not, I'm not trying to be cute, I'm looking at 11 you as a person who knows where these responsive 12 documents are? 13 A. I am not aware as I sit here 14 Q. -- chastised today for not doing my job 15 MR. MERRILL: Object to your interrupting. He 16 was starting to answer a question. 17 MR. STEWART: And I understand. But I want to 18 get my part in and then - Dr. Kaley and I go back a 19 long way. He knows I'll give him time to answer the 2 0 question. 21 Q. (By Mr. Stewart) So tell me, Dr. Kaley, am I to 2 2 understand that that's just you saying that, you're not 2 3 speaking for Solutia, as to whether or not there are any 2 4 responsive documents still at Solutia? 2 5 A. In my role as a representative to Solutia, I am Page 162 1 NOTARIAL CERTIFICATE 2 STATE OF MISSOURI ) ) 3 COUNTY OF ST. LOUIS ) 4 I, DIANNA C. HARK, a Certified Court Reporter and 5 duly commissionedNotary Public within and for the State of Missouri, do hereby certify that there came before me 6 at the offices of Husch Blackwell LLP, 190 Carondelet Plaza, Suite 600, St. Louis, Missouri 63105, 7 ROBERT G. KALEY, 8 who was by me first duly sworn to testify to the truth 9 and nothing but the truth of all knowledge touching and concerning the matters in controversy in this cause; 10 that the Witness was thereupon carefully examined under oath and said examination was reduced to writing by me; 11 and that the signature of the Witness was not waived by agreement of the Witness and all parties, and that this 12 deposition is a true and correct record of the testimony given by the Witness. 13 I further certify that I am neither attorney nor 14 counsel for nor related nor employed by any of the parties to the action in which this deposition is taken; 15 further, that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney or counsel employed by the parties hereto or 16 financially interested in this action. 17 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and seal this 23rd day of July, 2011. My commission expires January 22, 2015. 19 20 21 NOTARY PUBLIC 22 23 24 25 Page 164 1 not aware of such documents as I sit here today. 2 Q. And you did what you needed to do in order to 3 make that determination? 4 A. I thought I had, yes. I believe I have. 5 Q. And that involved talking to the woman that you COMES NOW THE WITNESS, ROBERT G. KALEY, and having re;Id the foregoing transcript of the deposition taken on JULY 19, 2011, acknowledges by signature hereto that it is a true and accurate transcript of the testimony given on the date hereinabove mentioned. 6 talked to? 7 A. Yes. ROBERT G. KALEY 8 Q. That you mentioned? 9 A. Among other things. 9 Subscribed to before me this ,2011. " 10 Q. And so would she be the one that we would ask 10 day of 11 if she knows about an off-site storage? 12 A. I, I believe so. I wouldn't know who else 13 Q. -- talk to Mr. Merrill. He's been good to give 14 us those Ascend documents. Maybe he'll just tell us, 11 Notary Public 12 My Commission expires: _ 13 15 "No, there ain't no documents there," and we'll take him 14 16 at his word. I believe that's, that's all I got of 15 17 Dr. Kaley. 16 18 MR. MERRILL: All right. So we want to review 17 JOHN ALLEN, et al. 19 the deposition and sign. 18 2 0 THE VIDEO TECHNICIAN: This concludes the 21 deposition. We will go off the record at 2:30 p.m. 22 2 3 Whereupon, signature was not waived and the witness was excused. 24 2 5 o-0-o 19 MONSANTO COMPANY, et al. 20 21 22 23 Reporter: Dianna C. Hark, RPR, CCR, CSR 24 Date taken: July 19, 2011 41 (Pages 161 to 164' PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877)421-0099 WATER PCB-SD0000006231 1 A ability 95:14 able 6:10 32:3 40:25 91:25 105:11 121:19 absence 50:7 absolutely 19:9 142:3 access 99:18,23 100:1,3,5 101:1 107:22,25 109:5,6,7 110:6,7 122:16 123:2,10,24 124:13,20 129:8,10,13 151:24 accidental 76:22 accurate 164:4 acknowledges 164:3 acquired 110:13 action 163:14,16 active 50:8 actual 107:6 112:2 add 33:12 154:23 added 16:22 17:3,8,12 20:18,24 70:16 113:7 113:9,14 114:20 154:17,21 155:2,3 additional 20:24 70:15 additions 16:13 address 70:21 90:23 92:12 106:19 132:13 addressed 90:24 92:11 addresses 91:8 administer 5:8 administered 4:15 administration 62:16 admittedly 52:24 advertisements 76:11 affairs 7:17 affect 74:24 75:6,15 affidavit 102:9,11 103:14 106:10,17,18 afternoon 3:13 age 4:13 agencies27:25 31:19,19 32:9,16,18 33:9 64:1 64:4,6 65:1,2,17,19,23 84:1 87:16 108:23 108:24 110:20 112:8,9 114:2 142:25 agency 31:22 33:9 34:7 62:14,17 83:24 84:7 87:20 117:2 130:13,14 132:18 136:20 ago 6:4 94:6 agree 120:4 agreed 4:1 agreement 53:22 100:5 109:8,13,16,18 122:24 123:9,16,18,19,21 163:11 agreements 150:5 ahead23:16 36:15 37:10 50:16 55:9 64:21 134:14 aint 162:15 air 30:13 31:8 42:1,1 al 1:2,6 3:2,6 4:22,23 164:17,19 alabama3:21 20:9,22 alleged 42:20 alien 1:2 3:2 4:22 164:17 allow 50:19 67:3 alls 122:16 alluding 135:10 amended2:9 5:23 88:22 amount 85:12 amy 22:13 60:19,21 152:18 anal 119:17 anniston3:21 20:25 28:23 83:10,11 84:12 101:13 113:11,17 announcements 76:21 77:12,18 78:1,5 answer 18:22 24:19,24 25:3 26:22 28:25 29:8 32:20 33:11 37:1041:1 43:945:19,21 46:1 47:24 49:2 54:3 55:9 56:10,25 59:8 66:15 66:21,21,23 67:6 68:18 72:8 73:21 79:1 92:24 95:14 96:19 97:9,11 99:25 105:5 126:20 129:12 144:1,2 152:9,22 153:10,13 154:13 155:22 158:2 161:16,19 answered 39:6 46:25 73:12 answering 120:21,24 answers 93:20 anybody 13:17 54:24 55:11 57:7,16 119:17 123:5 125:13 128:18 142:7 154:8 160:16 anymore 93:22 123:13 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4 close 10:14 11:14 closed 132:1 141:1 closure 131:20,23 146:9 closures 153:6 colleague 161:4 colleagues 156:18 collected 16:13 19:20 35:25 71:4 collecting 16:11 collection 14:24 21:3 63:2,3,3 collections 63:13 76:19 come 99:9 105:11 108:6 114:11 116:16 comes 164:1 coming 79:20 comment 40:6 51:2 commission 163:18 164:12 commissioned 163:5 communication 33:7 34:5,16,18 112:3 117:1 communications 31:17 32:5,8,15,18 52:10,23 57:17 65:2 66:1 108:22 110:18 112:7 companies 6:20 97:21 company 1:6 3:6 4:23 7:2 8:22 59:14,17 60:6 87:13,13 93:20 132:22 133:16,22 142:8 149:1,3 164:19 complete 18:5 33:22 62:3 137:3 151:15,16,16 completed 144:19 completion 141:3 146:24 compliance 12:4 87:16 132:16,17,22 134:2,5 147:23 comports 34:20 compressor 26:8 30:13 31:8 computer 130:7 computerized 129:15,17 computers 158:21 concept 74:25 concerned 98:6 concerning 38:16 62:17 163:9 concludes 162:20 conclusion 134:14 135:5 condensers 26:7 condition 75:22 confident 47:14 48:1 124:1 156:19 161:3 confirmed 156:20 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