Document XR76g7ZvN7YVQG3ZnRZGwggBK
FILE NAME: RT Vanderbilt (RTV)
DATE: 2007 July 24
DOC#: RTV 121
DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Legal - Deposition of Margaret Joan Baumgardner with Applicable Documents
TUESDAY JULY 24, 2007
ComfMJOSTnON OF MARGARET BAUMGARDNER
NO. 04-CI-00274
ANDERSON CIRCUIT COURT
1
COMMONWEALTH OF KENTUCKY
JOHNNY FRANKLIN, INDIVIDUALLY
2 AND AS ADMINISTRATOR OF THE
3 ESTATE OF FLORA FRANKLIN PLAINTIFF
4 v.
Page 1
1 For Defendant Georgia-Pacific Corp. KRISTIE M. ALFRED, ESQ.
2 Wyatt, Tarrant & Combs, LLP
500 West Jefferson Street 3 Suite 2600
Louisville, Kentucky 40202-2898 4 (502)562-7168
(Appearing telephonically)
Page 3
5 GENERAL MOTORS CORP.,ETAL., DEFENDANTS
6
DEPOSITION OF MARGARET JOAN BAUMGARDNER
7
July 24, 2007
8 __________________________________ _
9 PURSUANT TO NOTICE AND THE KENTUCKY RULES OF CIVIL
10 procedure, the deposition of Margaret joan Baumgardner, 11 taken by the Plaintiff at Claims Resolution Management 12 Corporation, 3390 Peoria Street, Suite 304, Aurora, 13 Colorado, beginning at the how of 1:07 p.m., on Tuesday, 14 July 24, 2007, recorded stenographically by
15 Debra L. Beery, Registered Merit Reporter and Notary
16 Public, State of Colorado.
17
jg
* * * * *
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
For Claims Resolution Management Corporation: 6 JEANNE R- MARVIN, ESQ
Claims Resolution Management Corporation 7 3110 Fairview Park Drive
Suite 200 8 Falls Church, Virginia 22012
(703) 204-9300 9 (Appearing telephonically)
10 Also Present: Elaine M. Corrigan, paralegal, Wells, Anderson & Race
11
12
EXAMINATION INDEX
13
Page
14 Examination by Mr. Satterley
6,31
15 Examination by Mr. Ludwig
23
16 Examination by Mr. Shadbume
32
17
18
19
20
21
Exhibit
EXHIBIT INDEX
Description
Initial Reference
1 January 18, 1973 memo to S. Speil from 8
23
R.S. Lamar
24 2 January 23, 1973 letter to R.S. Lamar 9 from P.A. Martinson
25
APPEARANCES
2 For the Plaintiff: JOSEPH D. SATTERLEY, ESQ.
3 Sales, Tillman, Wallbaum, Catlett & Satterley 1900 Waterfront Plaza
4 325 West Main Street Louisville, Kentucky 40202
5 1502) 589-5600 (Appearing telephonically)
6 For Defendants DaimlerChryslcr Corporation, General
7 Motors Corporation, and Ford Motor Company: ADAM B. SHADBURNE, ESQ.
8 Thompson Miller & Simpson, PLC 600 West Main Street, Suite 500
9 Louisville, Kentucky 40202 (502)357-1910
10 (Appearing telephonically)
11 For Defendant Honeywell International: ROBERT C. RIVES, IV, ESQ.
12 Boehl Stophcr & Graves, LLP 400 West Market Street
13 Suite 2300 Louisville, Kentucky 40202
14 (502)589-5980 (Appearing telephonically)
15 For Defendant Pneumo Abex, Inc:
16 JOHAN D. FLYNN. ESQ. Dehay A Elliston, L L P .
17 36 South Charles Street Suite 1300
18 Baltimore, Maryland 21201 (410) 783-7011
19 For Defendant R.T. V anderbilt Co. Inc.:
20 ERIC A LUDWIG, ESQ. H aw kins & Parnell, LLP
21 4000 Suntrust Plaza 303 Peachtree Street, N.E.
22 Atlanta, Georgia 30308-3243 (404)614-7420
23
24
25
Page 2
Initial
Exhibit
Description
Reference
2 3 February 14, 1973 letter to P.A. Martinson 10
3
from S. Speil
4 4 June 20,1973 letter to John Stender from 10
c
Robert C. MeIwen
J
5 July 18,1973 letter to Robert Bacon
10
6
from J.V. Fitzgerald
7 6 July 19,1973 letter to Hon. Jon Stender
11
from Paul B. Gibney, Jr.
8
7 August 28, 1973 internal correspondence 11
9
to F.L Pundsack from S. Speil
10 8 July 16,1974 internal correspondence
12
to F.J. Solon, Jr., from R.P. Outer
n
9 July 31, 1974 internal correspondence
13
12
to R.P. Carter, et al., from E.M. Fenner
13 10 August 21, 1974 internal correspondence 13 to F.J. Solon, Jr., from R.P. Outer
14
11 August 28, 1974 internal correspondence 14
15
to E.M. Fenner and R.P. Carter from
G.L. Swallow
16 12 October 4, 1974 internal correspondence 15
17
to F.J. Solon, Jr., from R.P. Carter
18 13 October 11,1974 internal correspondence 15 to V.E. Wolkodoff from R.S. Lamar
19 14 October 23,1974 internal correspondence 16
20
to R.J. Lamar from V.E. Wolkodoff
21 15 October 25,1974 internal correspondence 16 to R.P. Carter from P.A. Martinson
22 16 October 31, 1974 internal correspondence 17
23
to F.J. Solon, Jr., from R.P. Carter
24 17 November 7, 1974 internal correspondence 17 to F.J. Solon, Jr. and R. Carter from
25
Paul Kotin, M.D.
Page 4
THOMAS T. TOMKO & ASSOCIATES, INC. 303.825.1822
Page 1 - Page 4
TUESDAY JULY 24, 2007
CondBrhiIfTrtlON OF MARGARET BAUMGARDNER
Exhibit o
Description
Initial Reference
18 November 26,1974 internal correspondence 18
3
to F.J. Solon, Jr., from EM . Fenner
4 19 March 18, 1975 internal correspondence
18
to P. Kotin, M.D., from EM . Fenner <>
20 April 18, 1975 letter to RB. Vanderbilt
19
6
from R.S. Lamar
7 21 February 18,1977 internal correspondence 20
to E,M. Fenner from R.S. Lamar with
8
attachment Asbestos in Your Future
9 22 July 18,1978 letter to Marcel Cossette
21
from Allan M. Harvey
10
23 October 23,1974 internal correspondence 22
11
to R.S. Lamar from V.E. Wolkodoff
12 24 May 15, 1973 correspondence to Members 24
of Celite Environmental Committee from
13
Richard Carter with attached Experimental
Studies on Biological Effects of
14
Tremolite Talc on Hamsters
15 25 December 2, 1974 internal correspondence 25
to Filtration & Minerals Environmental
16
Committee from EM . Fenner, attached
Department of Labor OSHA document
17
26 July 29, 1971 letter to John Marshall
26
18
from C L. Shccklcr
19 27 October 9,1974 letter to H.B.
27
Vanderbilt from John H. Stender
20
28 June 20,1973 letter to Allen Harvey
27
21
from Richard D. Wilson
22 29 July 22, 1974 internal correspondence
28
to M.A. Baloga from R.K. Comann
23
(Exhibits 1 through 22 were previously marked.)
24
25
*****
Page 5
Page 7
l essentially I've worked for the Manville Trust/CRMC since
2 September of 1995.
Q. And have you participated and assisted in
4 locating, indexing, and packing many of the records that
5 are maintained there at the facility?
fO: A . I did when I was a paralegal for Johns
7 Manville.
8 Q. And have you subsequent to that been a
9 custodian of records with relating to Manville documents?
10 A . I manage the records that were given to the
11 Manville Trust, and I am in charge --from Johns
12 Manville, and those relate to asbestos products, and
13 those are the records that I am the custodian of
14 records --custodian for.
15 Q. And are you personally familiar with many of
16 the records stored at the facility?
17 A. I've certainly reviewed many of them, yes.
18 Q. And you're familiar with how many of the
19 records have been gathered?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And prior to the deposition today, did I send
22 you 21 exhibits to review?
23 A. Yes, you did.
24 Q. And I think I sent them to the court reporter
25 as well.
___________________
Page 6
Page 8
1
MARGARET JOAN BAUMGARDNER,
1
MR. SATTERLEY: Ms. Court Reporter, do you have
2 having been duly sworn, was examined and testified as
2 those?
3 follows:
4
EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. SATTERLEY:
6 Q. Please state your full name, ma'am. 7 A. Margaret Joan Baumgardner. 8 Q. Ms. Baumgardner, my name is Joe Satterley. I 9 represent Johnny Franklin and the Estate of Flora
3
(Discussion off the record.)
4 Q. (By Mr. Satterley) Ms. Baumgardner, we'll use
5 your documents.
6 A. That's fine.
7 Q. I'll hand you what I've previously marked as
8 Exhibit 1.
9 A. Okay.
10 Franklin in the case pending in Anderson Circuit Court in 10 Q. Do you have that before you?
11 Lawrenceburg, Kentucky.
12
Can you hear me okay?
13
A . I can hear you.
11 A. I do. 12 Q. Can you certify that Exhibit 1 is a record that 13 was maintained in the facility, the Manville facility
14 Q. All right. I appreciate you letting me 15 participate by telephone and asking you questions here 16 this afternoon. If at any point in time you can't hear 17 me because we're over the telephone, let me know and I'll
14 there? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And can you certify for the court that the 17 records were made at or near the time when it was
18 restate the question. Okay? 19 A. That's fine. 20 Q. What is your current position with the crmc? 21 A. I am the research coordinator for the Claims
22 R e s o lu t io n M a n a g e m e n t C o rp o ra tio n , sh o rten ed t o CRMC.
23 Q. And how long have you been in that position? 24 A. For the CRMC as well as the Manville Trust, I 25 have been --well, this plus another title, but
18 created? 19 A. Based on how they came to me, I believe they 20 are true and correct copies. 21 Q. And was the information on Exhibit 1 22 information transmitted by a person with knowledge of -- 23 within the Johns Manville Corporation? 24 A. It is a Johns Manville document. 125 Q. And was the document kept in the ordinary and
THOMAS T. TOMKO & ASSOCIATES, INC. 303.825.1822
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TUESDAY JULY 2 4 ,2007
ConiBdsEOSfriON OF MARGARET BAUMGARDNER
Page 9
Page 11
1 regular course of business of the activity at Manville?
1 A. Jul -- excuse me. Yes.
'
2 A. Yes, it was.
2 Q. And does this likewise bear a Bates number of a
. i
3 Q. I want to go through - I am going to ask those
3 CRMC Bates?
4 same questions to you for the other documents, and let's
4 A. Yes, it does.
1
5 just go one by one.
1
6 A. All right.
5 Q. And would this likewise be a document that 6 would have been kept in the regular course of business of
7 Q. First, before you-all go off Exhibit 1, is that
7 Manville?
5
1
8 a document dated January 18th, 1973?
J
9 A. Yes, it is.
8 A. It is a document filmed on microfilm at the 9 CRMC which came from Johns Manville. I would then call
10 Q. And does it bear Bates numbers at the bottom?
10 it a Manville record, yes.
J
11 A. Yes, it does.
11 Q. Moving forward to Exhibit No. 6. Is Exhibit 6
12 Q. CRMC Bates numbers?
12 a letter dated July 19th, 1973?
13 A. Yes, it does.
13 A. Yes, it is.
14 Q. Okay. And does that assist you in identifying
14 Q. And is this document once again a document that
]
15 that it would be a document that would have been produced 15 would have came from the microfilm from Johns Manville?
16 by CRMC?
1
17 A. Yes, it does.
16 A. Yes, it is. 17 Q. And would this have been -- can you certify
-1
18 Q. Okay. Let's go to Exhibit 2. Is that
18 that this record is once again a document that would have
19 Exhibit 2 a letter dated January --or memorandum dated
19 been received from the Manville --Johns Manville
;
20 January 23rd, 1973?
20 Corporation?
i
21 A. Yes, it is.
22 Q. Is it likewise a true and authentic copy of
21 A. Yes, it is. 22 Q. Moving forward to Exhibit 7. Exhibit 7, is
'!
23 documents maintained by the CMRC?
_
24 A. CRMC, yes.
23 that an inter-correspondence Johns Manville document? 24 A. Yes, it is.
25 Q. And once again, would this document be a
25 Q. Excuse me. August 28th, 1973?
i; -
Page 10
l document that was made near time --the date of the
1 A. Yes, it is.
Page 12
2 document, according to your knowledge?
2 Q. And would this likewise be a document which
j
3 A. It. is a document kept at the CRMC warehouse and 3 would have been received from Johns Manville to be
4 I believe it is authentic.
4 maintained by CRMC?
5 Q. L et's move on to Exhibit No. 3. Is that a 6 document dated February 14th, 1973?
5 A. Yes, it is. 6 Q. And does it likewise carry a Bates number from
7 A. Yes, it is.
7 CRMC?
8 Q. And is it likewise an authentic document kept
8 a . Yes, it does.
1 j
9 in the regular course of business activity of Manville? 9 Q. And would this then be a document that would
10 A. It is a document given to the CRMC and is a
10 have been kept in the regular course of business o f Johns
11 document that certainly seems authentic in the sense that 11 Manville?
12 it is --it came from the records here at the CRMC.
12 A. It is a document found on m icrofilm given to
13 Q. Can we move forward to Exhibit No. 4. Is that 13 the Manville Trust and, hence, is a business record of
14 a document dated June 20th, 1973?
r
15 A. It is a document of such.
14 Manville. 15 Q. Moving forward to Exhibit 8. Is Exhibit 8 a
16 Q. It's got the Bates number with the CRMC Bates 16 Johns Manville inter - internal correspondence letter
17 number on it, correct? 18 A. Correct.
17 dated July 16th, 1974? 18 A. Yes, it is.
19 Q. A nd is this likewise a document that would have 19 Q. And is that a document that would have been
20 been maintained as business records of the CMRC?
20 received by the CRMC to be m aintained at the facility
21 A. This is a document that came from microfilm
21 there?
!
22 that was given to the CRMC by Johns Manville, so it is a 22 a . Yes, it is.
23 document of M anville's records.
23 Q. And does it have the Bates num ber on it at the
24 Q. Moving forward to Exhibit No. 5. It's a
24 bottom as well?
25 memorandum dated July 18th, 1973, correct?
25 A. It does.
THOMAS T. TOMKO & ASSOCIATES, INC. 303.825.1822
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TUESDATJULY24, 2007
ConcfiffieOgfrlON OF MARGARET BAUMGARDNER
Page 13
Page 15
1 Q. And would it therefore indicate to you this
1 Q. And is this once again a document that's got a
2 would once again be a document that would have been
2 crm c Bates number on it?
3 maintained in the regular course of business activity of
3 A. Yes, it does.
4 Manville?
4 Q. And is this a document that would have been
5 A. Yes, it would have been.
5 r e c e iv e d b y th e CRMC fr o m m ic r o fic h e ?
6 Q. Moving forward to Exhibit 9. Is this an
6 A. I don't know if it's from microfiche but it's
7 internal Johns Manville correspondence document dated
7 certainly a document that's kept in our repository here.
8 July 31st, 1974?
8 Q. And it's an authentic document from Johns
9 A. Yes, it is.
9 Manville, correct?
10 Q. Would this once again be a document that would
10 A. Correct.
11 h a v e b een m a in ta in e d b y th e CRMC?
11 Q. Moving forward to Exhibit No. 12. Is Exhibit
12 A. Yes, it is.
12 No. 12 a Johns Manville internal correspondence document
13 Q. Would have this been a document that was given
13 dated October the 4th, 1974?
14 to CRMC from the Johns Manville Corporation?
14 A. Yes, it is.
15 A. Yes, it is.
15 Q. And does this once again have a crm c Bates
16 Q. And to your knowledge would this document,
16 number on?
17 Exhibit 9, be a document that would have been kept in the 17 A. Yes, it does.
18 regular course of business of the Johns Manville
18 Q. And would this document then be an authentic
19 Corporation?
19 document maintained by the facility there?
20 A. Yes, it would be.
20 A. Yes, it is.
21 Q. No. 10, Exhibit 10, is this a Johns Manville
21 Q. And would have this document been kept in the
22 internal correspondence document dated April 21st,
22 regular practice and business activity at Manville?
23 1974?
23 A. It is one that was given to us, the Manville
24 A. It is dated August 21st, 1974.
24 Trust/CRMC, and is a business record of Johns Manville.
25 Q. I apologize. Thank you for correcting me.
25 Q. Exhibit 13, is that an October 11, 1974 Johns
Page 14
Page 16
1
The August 21st, 1974 Johns Manville internal
1 Manville internal correspondence?
2 correspondence memorandum, is that once again a document 2 A. Yes, it is.
3 m a in ta in e d b y th e CRMC?
3 Q. Does it likewise have a Bates number on it?
4 A. Yes, it is.
4 A. Yes, it does.
5 Q. And is it likewise a document which would have
5 Q. And the Bates number is a CRMC Bates number,
6 been received from Johns Manville?
6 correct?
7 A. Yes.
7 A. Yes, it is.
8 Q. And based upon your knowledge, can you certify
8 Q. Would this document once again be an authentic
9 that this document, Exhibit No. 10, is a record that
9 Johns Manville document?
10 w o u ld h ave been m ad e at or near the tim e o f the date o f
10 A. Yes, it is.
11 the docum ent?
11 Q. And to your knowledge was it kept in the
12 A. It i s a d o c u m e n t g iv e n t o th e CRMC fro m th e
12 regular practice and business of Johns Manville?
13 Manville Corporation and by then being a record, it is a
13 A. When it was given to the Manville Trust, yes.
14 document authentic in that sense. 15 Q. And to your knowledge this would have then been
14 Q. Moving forward to Exhibit 14. Is this a Johns 15 Manville internal correspondence memorandum dated October
16 a document that would have been kept in the ordinary
16 the 23rd, 1974?
17 course of business of Johns Manville, correct?
17 A. Yes, it is.
18 A. Yes.
18 Q. And does it likewise bear a Bates number from
19 Q. I'm sorry, did we cut off?
19 th e CRMC?
20 A. Sorry. Yes. The answer was yes.
20 A. Yes, it does.
21 Q. I apologize. I didn't hear the answer.
22
Moving forward to Exhibit 11, do you have
21 Q. And would this indicate to you that this is 22 once again a document --authentic document from Johns
23 Exhibit 11, is that an August 28th, 1974 Johns Manville
23 Manville?
24 internal correspondence? 25 A. Yes, it is.
24 A. Yes, it would. 25 Q. Moving forward to Exhibit 15. Is this a Johns
THOMAS T. TOMKO & ASSOCIATES, INC. 303.825.1822
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TUESDAY JULY 24, 2007
ComBiEDSTnON OF MARGARET BAUMGARDNER
Page 17
Page 19
1 Manville internal correspondence memorandum dated l A. Yes, it does.
2 October 25th, 1974?
2 Q. Moving forward to Exhibit 20. Is Exhibit 20 a
3 A. Yes, it is.
3 memorandum dated April 18th, 1975?
4 Q, And would have --this have a Bates number on 4 A. I have - it's a letter dated April 18.
5 it from the CRMC?
5 Q. A letter, I'm sorry. A letter from Mr. Lamar
6 A. It does.
6 to a Hugh Vander --to Mr. Vanderbilt?
7 Q. Does this likewise indicate that this would be
7 A. Correct.
8 an authentic Johns Manville document?
8 Q. Is it dated April 18th, 1975?
9 A. Yes, it would indicate that.
9 A. Yes, it is.
10 Q. Moving forward to Exhibit 16, is this
10 Q. And is it from the Johns Manville Products
11 Exhibit 16 an October 31st, 1974 Johns Manville
ll Corporation?
12 internal correspondence?
12 a . Yes, it is.
13 A. Yes, it is.
13 Q. And does it indicate that it's from the
14 Q. And would this be an authentic document?
14 filtration and minerals division?
15 A. It appears to be an authentic document from
15 A. Yes, it does.
16 Johns Manville's records, yes, given to the Manville 16 Q. And it also indicates it's from Denver,
17 Trust.
17 Colorado, correct?
18 Q. Does it have a CRMC Bates number on it?
18 A. Correct.
19 A. It does.
19 Q. And that's where you are today, correct?
20 Q. Moving forward to Exhibit 17. Is this a
20 A. Actually, w e're in Aurora, but it's a suburb of
21 document --Johns Manville internal correspondence 21 Denver.
22 document dated November 7th, 1974?
22 Q. Okay. What, about 15 minutes away?
23 A. It is.
23 A. Less than that.
24 Q. And does this appear to be an authentic
24 Q. Okay.
25 document from Johns Manville?
25 A. The Denver borders get a little funky.
Page 18
Page 20
1 A. Yes, it is.
1 Q. All righty. Well, this document, Exhibit 20,
2 Q. Does it likewise have a Bates number o f the
2 is this a document with a Bates number on it from the
3 CRMC?
3 CRMC?
4 A. It does.
4 A. Yes, it is.
5 Q. Moving forward to 18, Exhibit 18. Does this
5 Q. Does this indicate to you that this is an
6 document - is it dated November 26th, 1974?
6 authentic Johns Manville document?
7 A. It is.
7 A. Yes, it is.
8 Q. And is this a Johns Manville internal
8 Q. Would it indicate to you that this was a
9 correspondence memorandum?
9 document that was kept in the ordinary course of business
10 A. Yes, it is.
10 of the Johns Manville Corporation?
11 Q. And is this document, to your knowledge, an
11 A. Yes.
12 authentic Johns Manville document?
12 Q. Moving forward to Exhibit 21. Is Exhibit 21 a
13 A. It appears to be, yes. It is a document kept
13 memorandum dated February 18th, 1977?
14 at the research facility here.
14 A. Yes, and it also has an attachment to it.
15 Q. Does it likewise have a CRMC Bates number on 15 Q. Both the memorandum and the attachment, do they
16 it?
16 bear CRMC Bates numbers?
17 A. Yes.
17 A. Yes, they do.
18 Q. Moving forward to Exhibit 19. Is this a
18 Q. Does this indicate to you that based upon the
19 memorandum dated March 18th, 1975?
19 Bates numbers and based upon the identification markers
20 A. Yes, it is.
20 on the document that this would be an authentic Johns
21 Q. And does this appear to be an authentic Johns
21 Manville document?
22 Manville internal correspondence?
22 A. Yes.
23 A. Yes, it does.
23 Q. And would it also indicate that this document
24 Q. Does this likewise have the Bates number CRMC 24 was kept in the ordinary course of business of the Johns
25 on it?
25 Manville Corporation?
THOMAS T. TOMKO & ASSOCIATES, INC. 303.825.1822
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TUESDAY JULY 24,2007
CondBffifiDtifrlON OF MARGARET BAUMGARDNER
Page 21 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Moving forward to Exhibit 22. Is this a letter 3 dated July 18th, 1978? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Does it have a CRMC Bates number on it? 6 A. It does. 7 Q. Does this indicate that it's --the letterhead 8 is from R.T. Vanderbilt Company, Inc.? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. And is it addressed to -- this letter addressed 11 to the Quebec Asbestos Mining Association? 12 A. Yes, it is. 13 Q. Would it indicate to you that this document, 14 based upon the Bates number, that this would have been a 15 document that would have been maintained by the Claims 16 Resolution Management Corporation? 17 A. It's certainly a document found in the research
18 fa c ility o f th e CRMC
19 Q. Would have that been a document that would have 20 been provided to the CRMC by the Johns Manville 21 Corporation? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And I believe that includes all the documents 24 that I sent to you to authenticate, correct? 25 A. There was a document dated October 23rd, 1974,
Page 23
1
MR. LUDWIG: Object to form.
2 A. I can certify that these records were kept by
3 Johns Manville in their ordinary course of business or
4 that certainly somebody can talk to me about it. The
5 former Manville records person who gave these records to
6 me certainly kept it during -- as their business records.
7 Q. (By Mr. Satterley) And who was that former
8 Manville person that you're referring to?
9 A. That would be Ann Rogers. She was the
10 custodian for Johns Manville, or as they were known at
11 the time, of Manville Corporation when the records were
12 given to the Manville Trust.
13 Q. And as far as you know, were each of these
14 documents kept in the regular practice and business
15 activity of the Johns Manville Corporation?
16 A. Yes.
17
MR. SATTERLEY: Thank you, Ms. Baumgardner.
18 Those are all the questions I am going to have for you
19 right now. Some of the other attorneys may have some
20 questions for you.
21
MR. LUDWIG: I'l l Start.
22
EXAMINATION
23 BY MR. LUDWIG:
24 Q. Good afternoon -
25
MR. SATTERLEY: Who is that?
Page 22
Page 24
1 that came after exhibit --it might be a duplicate here.
1
MR. LUDWIG: This is Eric Ludwig.
2 Hold on. But it's titled TEMand Selected Area 3 Disfraction. There's no exhibit number on it, but there
2
MR. SATTERLEY: Okay.
3 Q. (By Mr. Ludwig) Ms. Baumgardner, I have a few
4 are Bates numbers on it Would that help for you to look
4 follow-up questions.
5 at that?
5
la m going to show you a document. This is a
6 Q. Let's go ahead and just mark that as
7 Exhibit 23.
8 A. Okay.
9
(Deposition Exhibit 23 was marked.)
6 document dated M ay 15th, 1973, and it has an
7 attachment. If you could look at that.
8 A. Okay.
9
MR. SATTERLEY: Identify the num ber, the
10 Q. And let me just ask you, does that have the
10 exhibit number.
11 CRMC Bates number on it? 12 A. Yes, it does. 13 Q. Would that then indicate to you that that is a
11
MR. LUDWIG: This w ill be -
12
THE DEPONENT: 24.
13
MR. LUDWIG: --Exhibit 24.
14 document that would have been maintained by the facility 14
MR. SATTERLEY: Okay.
15 there? 16 A. Yes.
15
(Deposition Exhibit 24 was marked.)
16 Q. (By Mr. Ludwig) And at the bottom is there a
17 Q. And that would have been an authentic Johns 18 Manville document? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Let me just wrap this up and just verify. Each 21 of the 23 exhibits that I had you go through, can you 22 certify for the Court here in Kentucky that these records 23 were made at or near the time with a person with 24 knowledge and kept in the ordinary course of business 25 activity of Manville?
17 CRMC Bates number on that? 18 A. Yes, there is. 19 Q. Now, does that indicate to you that this is a 20 document kept by the CRMC? 21 A. Yes, it does. 22 Q. A nd does that indicate that this w as a document 23 forwarded to the CRMC from the Johns Manville 24 Corporation? 25 A. Yes, it does. It was a record that was found
THOMAS T. TOMKO & ASSOCIATES, INC. 303.825.1822
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TUESDAY JULY 24, 2007
Cond&EEOSiTlON OF MARGARET BAUMGARDNER
r j
Page 25
Page 27
1 at the CRMC here, research facility, and provided to a
1 is going to be Exhibit 20 --
1 ,
2 customer, shall we call them, of the CRMC research
2 A. '7.
L
3 facility.
3 Q. - 27.
4 Q. Okay. And does -
4
(Deposition Exhibit 27 was marked.)
|. !
5
MR. SATTERLEY: Can I get the date of the
L:
6 document also?
5 Q. What is the date of this document? 6 A. It is dated October 9th, 1974.
7 A. It is dated May 15, 1973, with an attachment
7 Q. And at the bottom of this document do you see a
j
8 dated May 8th, 1973, titled Experimental Studies on
8 CRMCnumber -
L !
9 Biological Effects of Tremolite Talc on Hamsters.
9 A. Yes, I do.
10 Q. (By Mr. Ludwig) Now, does this indicate to you 10 Q. --Bates number.
1
11 that this is a document that was kept by Johns Manville 11
Okay. And does this indicate to you that this
J
12 in the ordinary course o f business?
12 was a record forwarded to the CRMCfrom the Johns
13 A. Yes.
13 Manville Corporation?
14 Q. Thank you.
14 A. Yes, it does.
.. J
15
Show you the next document. W e'll mark this as 15 Q. Okay. And does this indicate to you that this
15 Exhibit 25.
16 was a document kept by the Johns Manville Corporation in
'I
17
(Deposition Exhibit 25 was marked.)
17 the ordinary course of business?
! J
18 Q. And what is the date of that document?
18 A. Yes, it does.
19 A. It is dated December 2nd, 1974, with an
19 Q. Let's see. The next one.
' 5 i ;
20 attachment dated November 21st, 1974, which is a
20
(Deposition Exhibit 28 was marked.)
!
21 Department of Labor OSHA document.
21 A, All righty.
22 Q. A t the bottom do you see a CRMC Bates number? 22 Q. And this is Exhibit 28, correct?
1
23 A. Yes, I do.
23 A. Correct.
1
24 Q. And does each of those documents have a CRMC 24 Q. And this is a document dated?
25 Bates number?
(! '' { *
1. .
1 A. Yes, they do.
25
Page 26 1
A. Well, it's kind of stamped June 20th, 1973. Q. Can I look at this quickly?
Page 28
2 Q. And is this a record that was forwarded to the
2
Okay.
1
3 CRMC from the Johns Manville Corporation?
j
4 A. Yes, it is.
3
And at the bottom is there a Bates number from
4 the CRMC?
5 Q. Is this a document that was kept by Johns
j I
6 Manville in the ordinary course of business?
-)
7 A. Yes, it is.
5 A. Yes, there is. 6 Q. And does that indicate to you that that was a 7 document forwarded to the CRMC from the Johns Manville
8 Q. Thank you.
\
9
I am next going to show you a two-page
|
10 document, we can mark that as Exhibit 26.
8 Corporation? 9 A. Yes. In fact, it was found on microfilm, this 10 particular document --
11
(Deposition Exhibit 26 was marked.)
11 Q. Okay.
I1
12 Q. And what is the date of this document?
J
13 A. It is dated July 29th, 1971.
12 A. --which was then given to the Manville 13 Trust/CRMC.
14 Q. And at the bottom of that document do you see a 14 Q. Okay. And does that indicate to you that this
"1
f
15 CRMC Bates number?
!
16 A. Yes, I do.
15 was a document kept by the Johns Manville Corporation in 16 the ordinary course of their business?
17 Q. And is this a document that would have been
' 1 1
18 forwarded to the CRMC from the Johns Manville
17 A. Yes. 18 Q. This is an authentic Johns Manville document?
.1
19 Corporation?
19 A. Yes.
20 A. Yes, it is.
20 Q. Okay. And my last exhibit, No. 29.
21 Q. Okay. And does that indicate to you that this
21
(Deposition Exhibit 29 was marked.)
22 is a document that was kept by the Johns Manville
22 A, Urn-hum.
23 Corporation in the ordinary course of their business? 23 Q. And this is a document dated what?
_ 24 A. Yes.
24 A. July 27th -- 22nd, excuse me, 1974.
25 Q. Okay. The next document I am going to show you 25 Q. And at the bottom do you see a Bates stamp
THOMAS T. TOMKO & ASSOCIATES, INC. 303.825.1822
Page 25 - Page 28
TUESDAY JULY 24, 2007
Cond&EeDSrriON OF MARGARET BAUMGARDNER
.
Page 29
Page 31
l number?
1 Q. Okay. And so all the documents you have seen
2 A. Yes.
2 today were created before the date you first started with
-,
3 Q. And that is a Bates stamp number from the CRMC, 3 Johns Manville?
'1 4 correct?
4 A. I believe they were all from the '70s, yes.
5 A. Correct.
5
MR. ludw iG; Okay. Thank you. That's all the
. J
6 Q. And is this a document that would have been
6 questions I have.
1
7 forwarded to the CRMC from the Johns Manville 8 Corporation?
7
MR. SATTERLEY: Anybody else have any questions
8 on the phone? I just have a follow-up, Ms. Baumgardner.
9 A. Yes. This also came from M anville's microfilm 9
EXAMINATION
10 collection which was given to the CRMC.
10 BY MR. SATTERLEY;
j
i
11 Q. This is a Johns Manville internal 12 correspondence document, correct?
11 Q. Even though you started with CMRC years after 12 the creation of these documents, is there any question in
13 A. Correct.
13 your mind that these are authentic documents maintained
; '
14 Q. Okay. And is this a document that would have 14 in the regular course of business by either Johns
!
15 been kept by Johns Manville in the ordinary course o f 15 Manville Corporation or the CMRC?
16 their business?
j 17 A. Yes.
1..
18 Q. Okay. Now, ju st to follow up. All the
16 A No, there is no doubt.
17
MR. SATTERLEY; Thank you, ma'am.
18
Those are all the questions I have.
19 documents that I have shown you, these are all authentic 19
MR. SHADBURNB: Joe, this is Adam Shadbume.
Jj
20 documents? 21 A. Yes.
22 Q. That are kept here at the CRMC?
20 And I may have a few questions for her, because I don't 21 know what these documents are. But if I could have a 22 couple minutes to talk to the defense counsel that are
23 A. Correct.
23 there, I may not need to ask any questions.
24 Q. Okay. Thank you.
24
So if you want to just take a quick break and I
25
Now, Ms. Baumgardner, I ju st want to follow up 25 can find out generally what these things are and then I
i
!
Page 30
Page 32
_ i
1 quickly on your role. You are a records custodian,
1 can decide if I need to ask her anything.
2 correct?
2
MR. SATTERLEY; I have no idea what Eric's
3 A. Among other things.
3 documents are. We can go off the record here.
4 Q. And a researcher?
4
(Discussion off the record.)
i 5 A. Yes, I am.
5
(A break was taken from 1:36 p.m. until
l 6 Q. Now, 1 guess what I'm asking, is that you had 6 1:43 p.m.)
. J
7 no role in the creation of any of the documents that have 7
the deponent: I'm ready.
8 been shown to you today?
8
Who are you, first of all?
f i
9 A. N ot in these documents, no.
9
MR. SHADBURNE: This is Adam Shadbume, and I'm
j\ 10 Q. Okay. And that you have no personal knowledge 10 counsel for Ford, GM, and Chrysler.
11 regarding the contents o f these documents, do you?
11
THE DEPONENT: Okay.
i1
12 a. No. 13 Q. Okay. And one final question.
12
EXAMINATION
13 BY MR. SHADBURNE:
14
The Johns Manville Corporation is a completely 14 Q. I wanted to ask you.
1 15 distinct company from the R.T. Vanderbilt Corporation, 15
My understanding is you are not the person who
I 16 correct?
16 would be the person at the CRMCthat has the most
17 A. I believe so.
n 18 Q. Have you ever worked for the R.T. Vanderbilt i 19 Company?
17 knowledge about the claims filing process? 18 A. That's correct. 19 Q. And are you aware that the plaintiff in this
n i 20 A. No. 21 Q. Okay. Now, I'm not sure this was asked 22 earlier. When did you start with the CRMC?
20 case, the plaintiff's decedent in this case, Flora 21 Franklin, has filed a claim against the Johns Manville 22 Trust?
23 A. Officially 1999, but I started with the
23 A. I'm aware they have, yes.
r~ " i
1
24 M anville Trust, which is the, shall we say, the larger 25 company, in September of 1995.
24 Q. Now, have you ever seen that claims form? 25 A. No.
THOMAS T. TOMKO & ASSOCIATES, INC. 303.825.1822
Page 29 - Page 32
TUESDAY JULY 24, 2007
CondMittSrnON OF MARGARET BAUMGARDNER
Page 33
Page 35
1
MR. satterley: Just place an objection on
l
I, Margaret joan Baumgardner, do hereby certify
2 the --this line of questioning. Can I have a continuing
2 that I have read the foregoing transcript and that the
3 objection, Adam?
3 same and accompanying correction sheets, if any,
4
MR. SHADBURNE: Sure. Yeah.
4 constitute a true and complete record of my testimony.
5
MR. FLYNN: What's the basis of the objection?
5
6
MR. SATTERLEY: Relevance.
6
7
MR. FLYNN: Okay.
7
8
MR satterley: You guys have already moved to
8
9 exclude any reference to bankruptcy at this trial and now
9
10 you are going to try to inject in bankruptcy. But go
10
11 ahead.
11
MARGARET JOAN BAUMGARDNER
12 Q. (By Mr. Shadbume) Ms. Baumgardner, you've
12
13 seen the claims form filed by Ms. Franklin in this
13
14 case --
14
Subscribed and sworn to before me this
15 A. I have not.
15
16 Q. --by Mr. and Mrs. Franklin?
16
Mv commission expires:
.
17 A. I have not.
17
18 Q. Okay. And I understand that there's another
18
19 person or persons within the CRMC that would be most
19
Notary Public
20 knowledgeable about the claims filing process; is that
20
21 right?
21
22 A. Correct.
22
23 Q. Who would that person be?
23
24 A. In terms of the actual claim filing, you know,
24
25 the person that I refer these kinds of requests to is
25
Page 34
Page 36
1 Heather Seitzer. 2 Q. And where is she located?
1
REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
STATE OF COLORADO
}
2
)ss.
3 A. Falls Church, Virginia. 4 Q. And that's at a CRMC facility there?
3 COUNTY OF JEFFERSON )
4
Debra L. Beery, Registered Merit Reporter and
5 A. That's the main office o f the CRMC. 6 Q. Okay. And would Heather Seitzer also be the 7 person that would, as far as you know, have the most
5 Notary Public, State of Colorado, duly commissioned to 6 administer oaths, does hereby certify that previous to 7 the commencement of the deposition, the deponent was
8 knowledge about the E filing claim system? 9 A. Yes.
8 first duly swom by me to testify to the truth;
9
That the said deposition was taken in stenotype
10
MR. SHADBURNE: Okay. M a'am , I think those are 10 by ine at the time and place aforesaid and was computed to
11 all the questions I have. Thank you.
11 typewriting under my supervision, and the foregoing
12
THE DEPONENT: Thank you.
12 constitutes an accurate and complete transcript;
13
MR. SATTERLEY: Anybody else have any
13
That I am not counsel nor in any way connected
14 questions?
14 with any counsel for any of the parties to said action or
15
With that being said, I think this concludes
16 the deposition.
17
Ms. Baumgardner, thank you very much for
18 appearing today.
15 otherwise interested in its event.
16
in witness whereof, I have hereunto set my hand
17 and affixed my seal this 31st day of July, 2007.
18
My Commission expires: September 19, 2007.
19
THE DEPONENT: Thank you.
19
20
I would like to put on the record that I do not
20
DEBRA L, BEERY, RMR
Notary Public
21 waive signature and would like to read the deposition. 21 MARGARET JOAN BAUMGARDNER
22
MR. SATTERLEY: That's fine. That's fine.
22
23 Thank you very much.
23
24
That closes the record, I believe.
24
25
(The deposition concluded at 1:46 p.m.)
25
THOMAS T. TOMKO & ASSOCIATES, INC. 303.825.1822
Page 33 - Page 36
EXAMINATIONBYMR SHADBURNE: MARGARETJOANBAUMGARDNER
35
1
I,
MARGARET JOAN BAUMGARDNER, d o h e r e b y c e r t i f y
2 th a t I have read th e fo re g o in g tr a n sc r ip t and th a t th e
3 sam e and accom p an yin g c o r r e c tio n s h e e t s , i f a n y , 4 c o n s t i t u t e a t r u e and c o m p le te r e c o r d o f my te s t im o n y .
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
MARGARET JOAN BAUMGARDNER
12
13
14
S u b s c r ib e d and sw orn t o b e f o r e me t h i s
15
16
My c o m m i s s i o n e x p i r e s :
17
18
19
N otary P u b lic
20
21
22
23
24
25
Thomas T. Tornio & Assoc., Inc. (303} 825-1822
36
1
REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
2
STATE OF COLORADO
)
) ss.
3 COUNTY OF JEFFERSON )
4
Debra L. Beery, Registered Merit Reporter and
5 Notary Public, State of Colorado, duly commissioned to
6 administer oaths, does hereby certify that previous to
7
the commencement of the deposition, the deponent was
8
first duly sworn by me to testify to the truth;
9
That the said deposition was taken in stenotype
10
by me at the time and place aforesaid and was computed to
11
typewriting under my supervision, and the foregoing
12
constitutes an accurate and complete transcript;
13
That I am not counsel nor in any way connected
14
with any counsel for any of the parties to said action or
15
otherwise interested in its event.
16
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand
17
and affixed my seal this _____ 1st day____ day 0fAugust
18
2007
19
My Commission expires: September 19, 2007.
20
21
22
23
24
25
Deposition of MARGARETJOANBAUMGARDNER- TUESDAYJULY24,2007
37
Thomas T. Tornio Si Assoc., Inc. (303) 825-1822
TUESDAY JULY 2 4,2007
Condenselt!TM
'7 - Bates
DEPOSITION OF MARGARET BAUMGARDNER
-1-
1 [7] 3:22
8:8 8:12 9:7 37:3
10 [71 4:2 4:5 4:13 13:21 14:9
11 [7] 4:14 14:23
4:7 4:18 15:25
12 [4] 4:10 15:11 15:12
13 [4] 4:11 4:18 15:25
1300 m 2:17
14 [4] 4:2 4:19 16:14
14th [l] 10:6
15 [7] 4:16 4:21 5:12 19:22 25:7
15th [11 24:6
16 [61 4:10 4:21 4:22 17:11
16th 12] 12:17
17 [4] 4:22 4:24 17:20
18 [12] 3:22 5:2 5:2 5:4 5:5 5:9 18:5
19:4
18th [7] 9:8 18:19 19:3
20:13 21:3
19 [5] 4:7 5:5 18:18
1900 [l] 2:3
1971 [2] 5:17
1973 poi 3:24 4:2 4:5 4:7
5:12
9:20 10:25
24:6
5:20 10:6 11:12
25:7
27:25
1974 [33] 4:11 4:13 4:16 4:18 4:21 4:22 5:2 5:10 5:19 5:22
13:8 13:23
5:23 8:21
4:4 13:21
4:8 14:22
4:16
4:13
4:14
4:18 16:25
4:19 17:10
37:1 4:24
4:5 5:4 5:7 18:5
10:25 19:8
5:4 36:18
26:13 3:22 4:4 4:8 9:8 10:14 11:25 25:8
4:10 4:14 4:19 4:24 5:15 12:17 13:24
14:1 15:25
17:11 21:25
27:6
14:23 16:16 17:22
25:19 28:24
1975 [S] 5:4 18:19 19:3
1977 pi 5:7
1978 [2] 5:9
995 pi 7:2
1999 [l] 30:23
19th [i] 11:12
1:07 pi 1:13
1:36 [l] 32:5
1:43 [i] 32:6
1:46 [l] 34:25
15:13 17:2 18:6 25:20
5:5 19:8 20:13 21:3 30:25
- 2-
2 [41 3:24 9:18 9:19
20 [9] 4:4 5:7 5:20 19:2 20:1
37:11
200 [l] 3:7
2007 [8] 1:7 36:17 36:18 37:8 37:11
204-9300 [il
20th [2] 10:14
21 [6] 4:13 5:9 7:22 20:12
21201 [i]
21st [4] 13:22 14:1 25:20
22 [51 5:9 5:22 5:23
22012 U
22nd [1 28:24
23 [8] 3:15 4:19 5:10 22:7 22:9
2300 [112:13
23rd [3] 9:20 21:25
24 [8] 5:12
24:13
1:7 5:12
24:15
25 pi 4:21 5:15 25:16
25th [l] 17:2
26 [5] 5:2 5:17 26:10
2600 pi 3:3
26th [1 18:6
27 [5] 5:19 5:20 27:3
27th [l] 28:24
28 [6] 4:8 5:20 5:22 27:22
5:15
5:5 19:2 27:1
1:14 37:3 37:11 3:8 27:25 5:7 20:12
2:18 13:24
5:10 21:2 3:8
3:24 5:10 22:21
16:16
1:14 24:12 37:8 5:15 25:17
5:17 26:11
5:19 27:4
4:14 27:20
28th [2] 11:25 14:23
29 [4] 5:17 5:22 28:20 28:21
29th [l] 26:13
2nd[i] 25:19
-3-
3 P] 4:2 10:5 303 [2] 2:21 37:2 30308-3243 [i] 2:22 304 [2] 1:12 37:6 31 pi 3:14 4:11 4:22
3110 [i] 3:7 31st [3] 13:8 17:11
36:17 32 [X] 3:16 325 pi 2:4 3390 [2] 1:12 37:6 357-1910 [l] 2:9 36 [X] 2:17
-4-
4 Pi 4:4 4:16
10:13
400 [I] 2:12
4000 [l] 2.21
40202 PI
2:4
2:9 2:13
40202-2898 [i]
3:3
404 pi 2:22
410 [I] 2:18
4th pi 15:13
-5-
5 [2] 4:5 10:24 500 [2j 2:8 3:2 502 pi 2:5 2:9 2:14 3:4 562-7168 [i] 3:4 589-5600 pi 2:5 589-5980 [X] 2:14
-6-
6 [4] 3:14 4:7 11:11 11:11
600 pi 2:8 614-7420 pi 2:22
-7-
7 [4] 4:8 4:24 11:22 11:22 703 [1] 3:8 783-7011 [X] 2:18 7th [l] 17:22
-8-
8 [5] 3:22 4:10 12:15 12:15 37:11
80010 [l]
37:6
80202 [l]
37:2
820[i] 37:1
825-1822 [1] 37:2
838 [l] 37:1
8th [l] 25:8
-9-
9 [5] 3:24 5:19 13:6 9th [l] 27:6
4:11 13:17
-A-
A bex[ii
2:15
accom panying [i]
35:3
according [i] 10:2
accurate [i] 36:12
action [i]
36:14
activity [6j 10:9 13:3 22:25 23:15
9:1 15:22
actual [i]
33:24
A ctually [i] 19:20
A dam [4]
2:7
31:19 32:9 33:3
addressed [2] 21:10
21:10
adm inister [i] 36:6
A D M IN ISTR A TO R
[1]
1:2
affixed [i] 36:17
aforesaid [i] 36:10
after [2] 22:1 31:11
afternoon [2] 6:16 23:24
again [io] 11:14 11:18 13:10 14:2 15:15 16:8
9:25 13:2
15:1 16:22
against [i] 32:21
ahead [2]
22:6
33:11
al p] 1:5 4:12 37:8
ALFRED [X] 3:1
A llan [i]
5:9
A llen [i]
5:20
already pi 33:8
Am ong [i] 30:3
A nderson p] 1:1 3:10 6:10
A nn [i] 23:9
answ er [2] 14:21
14:20
apologize [2] 13:25
14:21
appearp]
17:24
18:21
A PPEA R A N C ES [i]
2:1
appearing [6] 2:5 2:10 2:14 3:4 3:9 34:18
appreciate [i] 6:14
A p ril p]
5:5
13:22 19:3 19:4
19:8
A rea [ij 22:2
arrangem ents [i] 37:10
asbestos pj 5:8 7:12 21:11
assist [I]
9:14
assisted [i] 7:3
A SSO CIA TES p]
37:1 37:15
A ssociation p] 21:11
A tlan ta [X] 2:22
attached p] 5:13
5:16
attachm ent [6] 5:8 20:14 20:15 24:7 25:7 25:20
attorneys [i] 23:19
A ugust [io] 4:13 4:14 13:24 14:1 37:3 37:11
4:8 11:25 14:23
37:11
A urora p]
1:12
19:20 37:6
authentic pi] 10:4 10:8 14:14 15:8
16:8 16:22 17:14 17:15
18:12 18:21
20:20 22:17 29:19 31:13
9:22 10:11 15:18 17:8 17:24
20:6 28:18
authenticate [i] 21:24
aw are p] 32:23
32:19
aw ay [x] 19:22
-B -
B [21 2:7 B acon [x]
B aloga [X]
B altim ore [X]
bankruptcy p] 33:10
b ased [sj 14:8 20:18 21:14
b a sis [I] 33:5
B ates [34] 9:12 10:16 11:2 11:3
4:7 4:5 5:22 2:18 33:9
8:19 20:19
9:10 10:16 12:6
THOMAS T. TOMKO & ASSOCIATES, INC. 303.825.1822
Index Page 1
TUESDAY JULY 24,2007
Condenselt!M
Baumgardner - event
DEPOSITION OF MARGARET BAUMGARDNER
12:23 15:2 15:15 C hrysler [i] 32:10 10:17 10:18 10:25 custom er [i] 25:2
11:18 11:23 12:2
16:3 16:5 16:5 Church pj 3:8
14:17 15:9 15:10 cu t [1] 14:19
12:9 12:12 12:19
16:18 17:4 17:18 34:3
16:6 19:7 19:17
13:2 13:7 13:10
2108::22 2108::1156 2108::1294 C ircuit pj 1:1
19:18 19:19 21:9 21:24 27:22 27:23
13:13 13:16 13:17
-D -
13:22 14:2 14:5
21:5 21:14 22:4
6:10
29:4 29:5 29:12 D p ] 2:2 2:16
14:9 14:11 14:12
22:11 24:17 25:22 CIVIL [i]
1:9
29:13 29:23 30:2 5:21
14:14 14:16 15:1
25:25 26:15 27:10 claim pj
32:21 30:16 32:18 33:22 D aim lerC hrysler p]
28:3 28:25 29:3
33:24 34:8
correcting pj 13:25 2:6
15:4 15:7 15:8 15:12 15:18 15:19 15:21 16:8 16:9
B au m gardner [isj 1:7 1:10 6:1
claim s [io] 3:5 3:6
1:11 6:21
correction p] 35:3
date pi 10:1 14:10
16:22 16:22 17:8
6:7 6:8 8:4
21:15 32:17 32:24
correspondence p 2] 4:8 4:10 4:11
25:5 25:18 26:12 27:5 31:2
17:14 17:15 17:21 17:22 17:25 18:6
23:17 24:3 29:25 31:8 33:12 34:17
33:13 33:20 37:5
closes [i]
34:24
4:13 4:14 4:16 4:18 4:19 4:21
dated [32]
9:8
9:19 9:19 10:6
18:11 18:12 18:13 20:1 20:2 20:6
3375::15 3357::171 3367::291 C M R C [4] 9:23 4:22 4:24 5:2
10:14 10:25 11:12 20:9 20:20 20:21
b e a r [4] 9:10 11:2
10:20 31:11 31:15 C op] 2:19
5:4 5:7 5:10 5:12 5:15 5:22
12:17 13:7 13:22 13:24 15:13 16:15
20:23 21:13 21:15 21:17 21:19 21:25
16:18 20:16
B eery [3]
3:15
collection p] 29:10
12:16 13:7 13:22 14:2 14:24 15:12
17:1 17:22 18:6 18:19 19:3 19:4
22:14 22:18 24:5 24:6 24:20 24:22
36:4 36:19
C olorado p] 1:13 1:16 19:17 36:2
16:1 16:15 17:1 17:12 17:21 18:9
19:8 20:13 21:3 21:25 24:6 25:7
25:6 25:11 25:15 25:18 25:21 26:5
beginning [i] 1:13 B iological pi 5:13
36:5 37:2 37:6
18:22 29:12
25:8 25:19 25:20 26:10 26:12 26:14
25:9 CCoommbans n[i]p] 53::222 CC oorsrsiegtaten pp]] 35::910 2268::1233 27:6 27:24 2276::517 2267::722 2267::2156 27:24 28:7 28:10
L. bBooredhelr[si][ij 21:91:225 com m encem ent pi counsel [s] 31:22 D earm 37:9
28:15 28:18 28:23
r
b ottom [8]
9:10
36:7 com m ission p] 35:16
32:10 36:13 36:14 37:16
Debra pj
1:15
36:4 36:19
29:6 29:12 29:14
12:24 24:16 25:22 26:14 27:7 28:3
36:18
C OUNTY pj 36:3
decedent p]
32:20
docum ents p7] 7:9 8:5 9:4 9:23
28:25
commissioned m
couple [l]
31:22 D ecem ber [2] 5:15
21:23 23:14 25:24
break pj
31:24 36:5
course p8] 9:1
25:19
29:19 29:20 30:7
32:5
Com m ittee p] 5:12
10:9 11:6 12:10 decide m
32:1
30:9 30:11 31:1
busin ess psj 9:1
5:16
13:3 13:18 14:17 D efendant m 2:11
31:12 31:13 31:21
10:9 10:20 11:6 c o m m o n w e a l t h 20:9 20:24 22:24 2:15 2:19 3:1
32:3
12:10 12:13 13:3
[1]
1:1
23:3 25:12 26:6 D efendants pj 1:5
doubt [i]
31:16
13:18 14:17 15:22 com pany m 2:7
26:23 27:17 28:16 2:6
D rive [i]
3:7
15:24 16:12 20:9
21:8 30:15 30:19 29:15 31:14
defense p] 31:22 duly p] 6:2 36:5
20:24 22:24 23:3
30:25
23:6 23:14 25:12 com plete pj 35:4
court [6] 1:1 7:24 8:1
6:10 8:16
Dehay pi
26:6 26:23 27:17 36:12
22:22
Denver pj
2:16 19:16
36:8 duplicate [i] 22:1
28:16 29:16 31:14 com pletely p] 30:14 created p] 8:18
19:21 19:25 37:2 during p]
23:6
com puted [i] 36:10 31:2
D epartm ent pj 5:16
25:21
-E -
-c -
concluded p] 34:25
creation p] 31:12
30:7
deponent [6] 24:12 E p i
34:8
C m 2:11 4:4 C.L [l] 5:18
concludes [ij 34:15 CRM C [59] 6:20 connected pj 36:13 6:22 6:24 9:12
32:7 32:11 34:12 E .M [6] 4:12 4:15
34:19 36:7
5:3 5:4 5:7
carry [i] 12:6
constitute [i] 35:4
9:16 9:24 10:3 deposition p7] 1:7
5:16
Carter p]
4:10
4:12 4:13 4:15
constitutes p] 36:12
10:10 10:12 10:16 10:22 11:3 11:9
1:10 7:21 22:9 24:15 25:17 26:11
E ffects p]
5:13
4:17 4:21 4:23 contents p] 30:11 12:4 12:7 12:20 27:4 27:20 28:21 25:9
4:24 5:13
continuing p] 33:2
13:11 13:14 14:3
34:16 34:21 34:25 either p]
31:14
case [4] 6:10 32:20 coordinator p] 6:21
14:12 15:2 15:5
36:7 36:9 37:7 E lain e p]
3:10
32:20 33:14
copies [l]
8:20
15:15 16:5 16:19 37:11
E llisto n [i] 2:16
C atlett [i]
2:3
copy [1] 9:22
17:5 17:18 18:3 18:15 18:24 20:3
D escription p] 3:21 4:1 5:1
Environm ental pj
cc[i] 37:16
C elite [i]
5:12
Corp pi 1:5 3:1 Corporation pi]
20:16 21:5 21:18 21:20 22:11 24:17
D iscussion pi 8:3
5:12 5:15 E ric p] 2:20 24:1
certain ly [6] 7:17
1:12 2:6 2:7
24:20 24:23 25:1
32:4 D isfraction p] 22:3
E ric'sp i
32:2
10:11 15:7 23:4 23:6
21:17
3:5 3:6 6:22 8:23 11:20 13:14
25:2 25:22 25:24 26:3 26:15 26:18 d istin c t [l]
30:15
ESQ [71 2:2 2:11 2:16
2:7 2:20
CERTIFICATE pj
13:19 14:13 19:11 27:8 27:12 28:4 division [l] 19:14 3:1 3:6
36:1
20:10 20:25 21:16 21:21 23:11 23:15
28:7 29:3 29:7 29:10 29:22 30:22
docum ent [106] 5:16 8:24 8:25 9:8
esse n tially p] 7:1
certify m
8:12
8:16 11:17 14:8
24:24 26:3 26:19 26:23 27:13 27:16
32:16 33:19 34:4 34:5
9:15 9:25 10:1
E sta te p] 6:9
1:3
22:22 23:2 35:1
28:8 28:15 29:8 cu rren t [i] 6:20
10:2 10:8
10:3 10:6 10:10 10:11
etp]
1:5
4:12
36:6
30:14 30:15 31:15 custodian pi 7:9
10:14 10:15 10:19 37:8
charge [i]
7:11
37:5
7:13 7:14 23:10 10:21 10:23 11:5 ev en t p]
36:15
C harles [i] 2:17 correct [25] 8:20
30:1
11:8 11:14 11:14
THOMAS T. TOMKO & ASSOCIATES, INC. 303.825.1822
Index Page 2
TUESDAY JULY 24, 2007
Condenselt! TM
Examination - locating
DEPOSITION OF MARGARET BAUMGARDNER
E xam ination pj 3:12 3:14 3:15
3:16 6:4 23:22 31:9 32:12
exam ined pj 6:2
ex clu d e pi 33:9
excuse p i
11:1
11:25 28:24
e x h ib it [ss]
3:21 4:1 8:8 8:12
9:7 9:18 10:5 10:13 11:11 11:11 11:22 12:15 13:6 13:17 14:9 14:22
15:11 15:11 16:14 16:25
17:11 17:20 18:18 19:2 20:1 20:12 21:2 22:1
22:7 22:9 24:13 24:15 25:17 26:10
27:1 27:4 27:22 28:20
3:20
5:1 8:21
9:19 10:24 11:22 12:15 13:21
14:23 15:25
17:10 18:5 19:2 20:12
22:3 24:10
25:16 26:11 27:20 28:21
ex h ib its pi 5:23 7:22 22:21
E x p erim en tal p]
5:13 25:8
expires pi 36:18
35:16
-F-
F.J [] 4:10 4:17 4:23 5:3
F .L [l] 4:9
fa c ility [i2] 7:16 8:13 12:20 15:19 21:18 22:14 25:3 34:4
fa c t p] 28:9
F airv iew p]
F alls [2] 3:8
fa m ilia r p] 7:18 fa r p] 23:13
F eb ru ary [4] 5:7 10:6 Fenner m 4:15 5:3 5:7 5:16
few [2] 24:3 file d [2] 32:21
filing p] 33:20 33:24
film ed [i] filtratio n p]
19:14
fin a l [i] 30:13
fin e [4] 6:19
4:13 4:24
7:5 8:13 18:14 25:1
3:7 34:3 7:15
34:7 4:2 20:13 4:12 5:4
31:20 33:13 32:17 34:8 11:8 5:15
8:6
34:22 i:irst[4]
32:8
] j
34:22
9:7 36:8
6:9 32:20
]FLYNN [3] 33:5 33:7 jFollow [2] 29:25
31:8
36:11
Form p 33:13
Formel 23:7
Fornai 10:24 12:15 15:11 17:10
2118::218
fornai 26:2 28:7
11:11
13:6 16:14 17:20 19:2
26:18 29:7
21:17 24:25
1:3 6:9 32:21 33:13
37:8 6:6
31:2
4:6 1:3
2:16
29:18
24:4
6:3 32:10 35:2
32:24
23:5
10:13
11:22
14:22 16:25 18:5
20:12
24:23 27:12
12:12 28:9 1:2 6:10 33:16
19:25 5:8
-G -
G.L[i] 4:15
gathered pj 7:19
G eneral p] 1:5 2:6 37:8
generally [l] 31:25
G eorgia [l] 2:22
Georgia-Pacific pi 3:1
G ibney p] 4:7
given [i2] 10:10 10:22
13:13 14:12 16:13 17:16 28:12 29:10
7:10 12:12
15:23 23.12
GM [i] 32:10
Good [l]
23:24
G raves [i]
2:12
guess p]
30:6
g u y s PI 33:8
-H-
H[i] 5:19 H .B p] 5:5 Hamsters pj
25:9 land p] 8:7
'larvey pj 5:20 Hawkins [i]
5:19 5:14
36:16 5:9
2:20
5:22 13:22 15:12
12:16 14:1
16:1
13:7 14:24 16:15
17:1 17:12 17:21 18:8 18:22 29:11
International m
2:11
TV[I] 2:11
rear [4] 6:12 6:16 14:21 Heather pi 34:6 help[i] 22:4 icnce tu
hereby [2] 36:6
hereunto [i]
H old [i] 22:2
H onp] 4:7
6:13 34:1
12:13 35:1 36:16
-J-
J.V pi 4:6 January p] 3:22 3:24 9:8 9:19 9:20 JEA N N E pi 3:6 Jefferson [2] 3:2 36:3 Joan pi 1:7 1:10 6:1 6:7 35:1
35:11 36:21 37:5
Honeyw ell [i] 2:il
37:7
h o u rp i 1:13
Joe p] 6:8 31:19
Hugh [i]
19:6 JOHA N pj 2:16
John p] 4:4 5:17
-I-
idea[l] 32:2
identification 20:19
Identify [i]
identifying pi
Inc [4] 2:15 37:1 37:15
Inc. [l] 21:8
includes [i] INDEX [2]
3:20
indexing [i]
indicate po] 16:21 17:7 19:13 20:5 20:18 20:23 21:13 22:13 24:22 25:10 27:11 27:15 28:14
indicates [i]
[i]
24:9 9:14 2:19
21:23 3:12
7:4 13:1 17:9 20:8 21:7 24:19 26:21 28:6
.1.9..:.1..6
5:19
Johnny pi 6:9 37:8
Johns [65]
7:11 8:23
10:22 11:9
11:19 11:23
12:10 12:16
13:14 13:18
14:1 14:6 14:23 15:8
15:24 15:25
16:12 16:14
16:25 17:8 17:16 17:21 18:8 18:12
19:10 20:20 22:17 23:15
20:6 20:24 23:3 24:23
26:3 26:5 26:22 27:12
28:7 28:15
29:7 29:11
30:14 31:3
1:2
7:6 8:24 11:15 12:3 13:7 13:21 14:17 15:12 16:9 16:22 17:11 17:25 18:21 20:10 21:20 23:10 25:11 26:18 27:16 28:18 29:15 31:14
IN1:2DIVIDUALLY [i]
32:21 Jonpi
4:7
inform ation pi 8:21
8:22
Initial pi
3:21
4:1 5:1
JO SEPH [l] 2:2 Jr [7] 4:7 4:10 4:13 4:17 4:23 4:24 5:3
inject [i]
33:10 Ju lp ] 11:1
in ter [i] 12:16
inter-correspondence
[l]
11:23
interested ii] 36:15
internal pi] 4:8
4:10 4:11 4:13 4:14 4:16 4:18
4:19 4:21 4:22
4:24 5:2
5:4
July [is] 1:7 4:5 4:7
4:11 5:9
5:22 10:25
12:17 26:13 37:8
13:8 28:24
June p] 4:4
10:14 27:25
1:14 4:10 5:17 11:12 21:3 36:17
5:20
5:7 5:10 5:15
-K-
K entucky pi 1:1
1:9 2:4 2:9 2:13 3:3 6:11
22:22
k ep t ps] 8:25
10 8 11:6 13:17 14:16 15:21 16:11
20:9 20:24 23:2 23:6
24:20 25:11 26:22 27:16 29:15 29:22
10:3 12:10
15:7 18:13 22:24
23:14 26:5
28:15
k in d p i 27:25
kinds [i]
33:25
knowledge pi] 8:22
10:2 13:16 14:8 14:15 16:11 18:11 22:24 30:10 32:17
34:8
know ledgeable p]
33:20
know n [i]
23:10
K otin p]
4:25
5:4
KRISTIE pj 3:1
-L-
L p ] 1:15 36:4
36:19
L .L .P p ]
2:16
L abor p]
5:16
25:21
L am ar p]
3:23
3:24 4:18 4:20
5:6 5:7 5:11
19:5
la r g e r tu
30:24
last [l] 28:20
Lawrenceburg pi
6:11
L essp ] 19:23
letter pa] 4:2 4:4
4:7 5:5 5:17 5:19 9:19 11:12 19:4 19:5 21:2 21:10
3:24 4:5 5:9 5:20
12:16 19:5
letterhead p] 21:7
lettin g [i]
6:14
likew ise [i4]
10:8 10:19 11:5 12:2 14:5 16:3 17:7 18:2 18:24
9:22
11:2
12:6 16:18 18:15
lin e p ] 33:2
LL P [3] 2:12 2:20 3:2
located pi 34:2
locating [ii 7:4
THOMAS T. TOMKO & ASSOCIATES, INC. 303.825.1822
Index Page 3
: I
TUESDAY JULY 24,2007
7:24 8:1 36:4
REPO RTER'S[i] 36:1
re p o sito ry [i] 15:7
rep resen t [i] 6:9
req u ests m 33:25
research pi 6:21 18:14 21:17 25:1
25:2
research er [i] 30:4
R eso lu tio n pi 1:11 3:5 3:6 6:22
21:16 37:5
re sta te [ij
6:18
rev iew [i]
7:22
rev iew ed [ij 7:17
R ich ard p] 5:13
5:21
rig h t [4] 6:14 9:6 23:19 33:21
rig h ty [2]
20:1
27:21
R IV E S [l] 2:11
RM Rp]
36:19
Robert pj
2:11
4:4 4:5
R ogers [i]
23:9
ro le pi 30:1 30:7
R U L E S [i] 1:9
-S-
S [3] 3:22 4:3 4:9
S ales [i]
2:3
S atterley p3]
2:3 3:14 6:8 8:1
23:7 23:17 24:2 24:9
25:5 31:7 31:17 32:2
33:6 33:8 34:22
2:2
6:5 8:4 23:25 24:14 31:10
33:1 34:13
seal [i] 36:17
see [5] 25:22 26:14 27:7 27:19 28:25
Seitzer pj
34:1
34:6
S elected [i] 22:2
sen d p i 7:21
sense pi
10:11
14:14
sen t p] 7:24 21:24
S eptem ber pj 7:2 30:25 36:18
set [2] 36:16 37:11
S hadburne [io] 2:7 3:16 31:19 31:19 32:9 32:9 32:13 33:4 33:12 34:10
shall [2] 25:2 30:24
Sheckler [i] 5:18
sheets [i]
35:3
shortened [i] 6:22
show [4]24:5 25:15 26:9 26:25
shown pj
29:19
30:8
signature [ij 34:21
signing [i] 37:11
Sim pson [ij 2:8
S incerely [ij 37:13
Solon pi
4:10
4:13 4:17 4:23
4:24 5:3
sorry p] 14:19 14:20 19:5
South pj
2:17
S peil [3] 3:22 4:3 4:9
SS[l] 36:2
stam p p] 29:3
28:25
stam ped p] 27:25
sta rt p] 23:21 30:22
started pj
30:23
31:2 31:11
state [4] 1:16 6:6 36:2 36:5
S tender [3] 4:4
4:7 5:19
stenographically [i] 1:14
stenotype p] 36:9
S topherp] 2:12
stored p]
7:16
S treet [9]
1:12
2:4 2:8 2:12 2:17 2:21 3:2
37:1 37:6
Studies pj 5:13 25:8
S ubscribed m 35:14
subsequent pj 7:8
suburb [l] 19:20
suchfi] 10:15
S uite [8] 1:12 2:8 2:13 2:17 3:3 3:7 37:1 37:6
S u n tru st p] 2:21
supervision pj 36:11
Sw allow [l] 4:15
sworn pj
6:2
35:14 36:8
system [ij
34:8
-T-
T alc [2] 5:14 25:9
T arran t p] 3:2
telephone [2] 6:15 6:17
telephonically p]
2:5
2:10 2:14
Condenselt! TM
REPORTER'S - you-aU
DEPOSITION OF MARGARET BAUMGARDNER
3:4 3:9
TEM [lj22:2
term s p]
33:24
testified pi 6:2
te stify [i]
36:8
testim ony [i] 35:4
th an k [12]
23:17 25:14 29:24 31:5 34:11 34:12
34:19 34:23
13:25
26:8 31:17 34:17
therefore [i] 13:1
Thom pson [i] 2:8
through p] 5:23 9:3 22:21
T illm an [i] 2:3
title [i] 6:25
title d [2]
22:2
25:8
to d ay p]
7:21
19:19 30:8 31:2
34:18
TO M K O p] 37:1 37:15
tran sc rip t p] 35:2 36:12
transm itted [i] 8:22
T rem olitep] 5:14 25:9
34:3
-w-
waive [i]
34:21
Wallbaump] 2:3
warehouse p] 10:3
Waterfront [i] 2:3
Wells [i]
3:10
West [4] 2:4 2:8
2:12 3:2
WHEREOF [i] 36:16
Wilson [i] 5:21
within pj
8:23
33:19
WITNESS p i 36:16
Wolkodoff pi 4:18
4:20 5:11
worked pi 7:1
30:18
wrap p j 22:20
Wyatt [i]
3:2
-Y-
years p] you-all [l]
31:11 9:7
trial [2] 33:9 37:11
true [3] 8:20 9:22
35:4
T ru st [8]
7:11 12:13 17:17 23:12
6:24
16:13 30:24
32:22
Trast/CRMC p]
7:1 15:24 28:13
tru th [l] 36:8 try [i] 33:10 T u esd ay ^] 1:13
tw o-page [1] 26:9 typew riting [i] 36:11
-U -
Um-hum [i] 28:22
under [i]
36:11
understand [i] 33:18
up p i 22:20 29:18
29:25
-V-V
V [2] 1:4 37:8
V .E p ] 4:18 4:20 5:11
V an d erp ] 19:6
V anderbilt [7] 2:19
5:5 5:19 19:6 21:8 30:15 30:18
v erify [1]
22:20
V irg in ia p] 3:8
THOMAS T. TOMKO & ASSOCIATES, INC. 303.825.1822
Index Page 5
1/16/73 with William Ashton, Johnson & Johnson
As you know, we have been working with B i l l Ashton on the p o ssib le jo in t development of^ Canadlnn MarTntr*'~f*" t a lc with J-M and J&J.
B i l l probably knows as much about t a lc as anyone. Be i s very honest and Quite outspoken sometimes in expressing h is opinion. He i s a great person!
B i l l Ashton i s v*ry upset1about;=vh*t JUT. Vanderbilt Company i s tryin g to do through the Talc Producer's A ssociation , and more p a rticu la rly ; what they are attempting to do by having Alan Harvey node chairman of th e A.S.X.H. abb-committee to re-d efin e "asbestos" . According to Ashton, they^also hope to d e fin e "talc" through th is same committe.. This i s what has Ashton r e a lly upset!
1 know th at both, you and I cameaway from our January 11, 1973 meeting a t R.T. Vanderbilt Company, New York C ity not agreeing w ith th e ir d e fin itio n o f "trem olite". They are playing with words.and ignoring fa c ts .
Ashton said today that they (Vanderbilt) plan to u se th is same A.S.T.H. committee to r e - d e f in e t a lc a s:
1 . Pure t a l e mineral (never found i n :n atu re).
2 . Commercial t a le which i s ; always- a ssociated w ith trem o lite.
Both d e fin itio n s ar.e not true but areo b v io u B ly aimed a t strengthening
V an d erb ilt's marketing p o sitio n . These are obvious and d e lib e r a te attempts
by Vanderbilt to bend th e truth.
'
We have seen numerous samples o f n atu ral pure t a lc m in eral.
Many conanerical t a l c s , even though they are not pure ta lc m inerals, do not contain triemolite.
Z do n ot b e lie v e .th a t Weshould.allow Vanderbilt to proceed unchallenged: with t h is typ.e of-. approach. I t might be very worth w h ile i f you were to &lk' w lth sB ill Ashton about a l l o f th is prior to the forthcoming Talc Producer's A ssociation meeting on February 5,
a t B..T. Vanderbilt Company o f f ic e s NeV York C ity.
' CRMC-MAD-000437
71 -
C e l it e DBQ January 23, 1973
R S . Lamar
TALC PRODUCERS' ASSOCIATION (PROPOSED) R. T . V a n d e r b ilt company
In view o f the developments a t th e recent m eeting in New York C ity a tte n d e d b y you and D r. S p e l l, i t appears v e r y much in o rd er t o : g o -o n .r e c o r d n o t o n ly w ith t h e V anderbilt people, but a iso oth ers in th e industry i n t e r e s t e d i n OSH, PDA and o t h e r m a tters o f con cern . a t th is tim e.
pursuant t o our con versation l a s t week in Denver, i t i s t h e r e f o r e su g g e ste d th at .you im m ed iately p rop ose a l e t t e r , which you in d icated - you would do, and send i t to t h e w r i t e r , i t i s ' isJced 't h a t you in d ic a t e t o whom you f e e l t h is le t t e r sholdVbe.addressed, in accordance with t h f o r e g o in g s ta te m e n t. A ls o , i t i s my s u g g e s tio n t h a t perhaps* jacc S ola^ sh d l i n i t i a t e t h e l e t t e r and follow th r o u g h . I-;am :givi3ig-i'a^iop?bf >:.your January 18 l e t t e r t both M essrs. Solon ahd D ick c a r te r .
I t i s ,iny .str o n g :eelang*bnvfchis m a tte r t h a t J o h n s-M a n v ille ' s p o s i t i o n m u s t be-based>on, f a c t s . I know on. t h is you ag ree, a n d a lso , in gen eral> others in th e industry o f n e c e ssity f o r th good o f th e in d u str y , c e r t a in ly must ta k e t h e same p osition .
W. Xi. F. j .
H. R. E. B. Ri P . W. C. -Ry-P .
J . M. d c
VanDerbeek Solon
K efe Sm ith B assett Streib carter
Sharratt
zI
CRMC-MAD-000436
X
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TALC PRODUCER' S ASSOCIATION' (PROPOSED) R. s . Lam ar's l e t t e r o f Jan u ary 3 1 , 1973
D ick Lam ar's l e t t e r su g g e s te d t h a t I comment on th e t e c h n ic a l soundness o f the l e t t e r b efo re i t i s s e n t. B efore doing so , I would lik e to r a is e a q u e stio n as to th e d e s i r a b i li t y o f sen d in g such a l e t t e r out a fte r atten d in g the r e c e n t m eeting o f t h e T a lc P r o d u c e r 's A s s o c i a t i o n in New York C i t y . W h ile th e in te n t o f th e m eetin g was to prom ulgate a s e r ie s o f d e f i n i t i o n s d i f f e r e n t i a t i n g a s b e s t o s , t r e m o i i t e , t a l c and commer c i a l t a l c , I b e lie v e I was in stru m en ta l in ch an gin g th e end r e s u lt so th at only one d e fin itio n i s being prop osed , i . e . , in d u stria l ta lc.
W h ile t h e e x a c t w o r d in g may d i f f e r v e r y s l i g h t l y from th e d e fin itio n below , th e gen eral g i s t was as fo llo w s :
" in d u str ia l ta lc is a product varying in m ineral com position from th e m ineral t a l c k g g (sig 0 2 o ) (OH)^ to m ix tu res o f m in era l t a l c and o th e r n a t u r a lly a s s o c ia te d n o n -fib r o u s an d /or f i b r o u s m in e r a ls a s d e f i n e d by ASTM D e s ig n a t io n D 2 9 4 6 -7 1 .
W hile we sh ou ld c le a r w ith th e V an d erb ilt p eo p le w hether they in ten d to continue, t h e ir p rev io u s plan to co n v in ce Government o f f i c i a l s t h a t t r e m o i i t e i s n o t an a s b e s t o s m i n e r a l , ray own im p ressio n from th e m eetin g i s th a t th ey a r co n v in c ed o f th e f u t i l i t y o f t h i s A p p roach . The much more r e a s o n a b l e a p p r o a c h , and one w hich has some s l i g h t p o s s i b i l i t y o f b e a r in g f r u i t , i s t o c o n c e n t r a t e on t h e d e f i n i t i o n o f f i b e r . The ASTM d e f i n i t i o n r e fe r r e d t o above u ses an a sp e c t r a t io o f 10:1 r a th e r than th e ACGIH r a t i o o f 3 : 1 .
R. T. V a n d r b ilt ap pears t o be th e sp earh ead f o r th e w h ole e f f o r t to d is a s s o c ia t e t r e m o iite from th e l i s t o f a s b e s to s m in e r a ls . I f t h e y a r e n o t going t o push t h i s a p p r o a c h , th e n t h e r e i s l i t t l e n e e d , i n my o p in io n , f o r s e n d in g th e le t t e r to T alc Producers or to th e T alc P roducer's A sso cia tio n .
So much fo r th e p o l i t i c a l a s p e c t s o f th e l e t t e r . W ith r e f e r e n c e to th e te c h n ic a l a s p e c t s , I sh o u ld lik e to make th e fo llo w in g p o in ts , some o f which o b v io u sly w i l l be m inor.
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1
^ R M C -M a d -000443
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February 14, 1973 Pago 2
P. A. M artin son - 2 West
(
. Item 2. While trem olite does have a fib r o u s " crystal h a b it
th e p a r t ic le s can be fib rou s or n o n -fib r o u s. In e s s e n c e , a f i b e r i s a p a r t i c l e , w ith a d e fin e d minimum r a t io o f le n g th t o w id th . U n fo r tu n a te ly , t h is a s p e c t r a t io (L/D) i s h o t a d e f i n i t e l y e s t a b lis h e d l i m i t . As a m a tter o f f a c t , in th e ASTM d e f i n i t i o n s th e r e a r e two r a t i o s g iv e n a s minimum. In t h e ASTM d e f i n i t i o n o f a s b e s t o s m i n e r a l s , th e r a t i o i s 1 0 :1 ; in th e T e x tile Fiber se c tio n , th e lim it is given as 100:1.
However, the more im portant a s p e c t r a t io lim it , w hether i t has any more s c i e n t i f i c s ig n if ic a n c e o r n o t , i s th a t prom ulgated b y t h e ACGIH, n a m ely , an a s p e c t r a t i o o f 3 . I f th e t r e m o l i t e p a r t i c l e s have an a s p e c t r a t io g r e a t e r than 3 :1 , th ey are f i b r o u s a s f a r a s OiSHA i s c o n c e r n e d . I f th e r a t i o i s l e s s than 3:1, the trem o lite p a r tic le i s a p a r tic le , n ot a fib e r . Thus, alth ou gh " trem olite i s a fib r o u s m ineral" as s ta te d in I te m 2 , t h e i n d i v i d u a l p a r t i c l e s may b e f i b r o u s o r may n o t b e fib r o u s , depending on th e ir s p e c i f i c a sp e c t r a t io s .
S ta r tin g w ith t h is d is t in c t io n , we go to Item 1 which sa y s th a t t r e m o l i t e i s c l e a r l y a member o f t h e " a s b e s to s fa m ily " o f m in era ls. A gain, th is i s c o r r e c t, b u t sin c e th e a sb esto s m in e r a ls a r e fib r o u s by d e f i n i t i o n , th en we co u ld c o n c lu d e th a t th o se p a r tic le s o f trem o lite whose asp ect r a tio i s ex trem ely sm all are r e a lly n ot fib e r s and, th e r e fo r e , they cou ld be con sid ered as n ot b eing a sb e sto s.
What J a m tr y in g to p o in t ou t i s th a t w h eth er tr e m o lite i s t o b e c la s s e d as an a s b e s to s m in e r a l i s secon d ary to--w hether t h e p a r t i c l e s a r e r e a l l y f ib r o u s o r n o t i n s o f a r a s t h e OSUA r e g u la tio n s are. con cern ed , and we sh o u ld tr y to p in our argu m ents on th e a sp e c t r a tio fa c to r .
I te m 3 ., X -r a y d i f f r a c t i o n m eth o d s make p o s s i b l e a p o s i t i v e " d iffe r e n tia tio n between" both m in e r a ls. I t w ill n ot d e f in it e ly id e n t ify tr e m o lite in a m ixture co n ta in in g sm all q u a n titie s o f tr em o lite in a large con cen tration o f ta lc . S tron gest id e n t if y in g X -ray lin e s fo r tr e m o lite a re e s s e n t i a l l y th e same as t h o s e f o r a n th o p h y llit e and s e v e r a l o th e r am phibole m in e r a ls .
The s t a t e m e n t t h a t p u r e t a l c m in e r a l i s f a i r l y common i n n a t u r e i s s o m e th in g t h a t I m ust d e f e r to - R. L am ar's k n o w le d g e . I h ad n o t a n tic ip a te d th a t th ere were any la r g e d e p o sits o f pure t a lc m in eral w ith o u t' concom itant im p u r itie s , a lb e it n o n -fib ro u s im p u r itie s such as carbonates, o x id e s, e tc .
CRMo^ d . AJ
February 14, 1973 Page 3
P . A. M a r tin so n - 2 W est
Item 8 . W h ile I am s u r e t h a t o u r I n d u s t r i a l H y g i e n i s t s can supply in form ation regarding c o r r e c t procedures fo r d u st . c o n tr o l and o t h e r p r o t e c t iv e m ea su res th a t mey b e r e q u ir e d , i t w ill be a lon g tim e b efo re s u f f ic ie n t m edical or ep idem io l o g i c a l d a ta a r e a v a i l a b l e on w h ic h t o p a ss any recommendations o th e r than to in c lu d e t r e m o lit e as e i t h e r an a s b e s t o s f i b e r , in .w h ich ca se th e fib e r count lim ita tio n s w ill be param ount, o r as a n u isa n ce d u st in which p a r t ic le count would b e p ara m ount.
D ick Lambr i s t o b e c o n g r a t u la t e d on p r e p a r in g a sum m ation o f tt ihoins otyf p ea wt ehcihc hn ibc ar iln gnsa tut or eg*e t h e r a t o n e p o in t p e r t i n e n t in f o r m a i
f
S . SPEIL
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G K. L. VanDsrbcek - 2 w e st
J . M. S h a r r a t t - 2 W est
H. R. K e e fe
- 2 W est
W. C. St r e i b R. P . C a rter
- 3 W est - 5 West
R. S . Lamar
- 1 North
E. B Sm ith
- Long-Beach Carson/*'
R. F . B a s s e t t - L ong B ach C arson
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CEMC
AppeiltUX 6
4 - * V G S S 8 ? A m s ? ; S 3 m.
P.O. Be* JUj- Princeton. H.J. CCi*0 CC? W I-'nlO
J u l y 1&, 1973
Mr. Robert Bacon
Talc' industry Association
R. T. V a n d e rb il t C o., In c .
33 W in f ie ld S t r e e t . '
.
.
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E..st Norwalk, C onnecticut 06855
.
Dear Kr. Bacon:-
. f o r o v e r 25 y e a r s , t h e T ile . Council o f America has w orked, through
Research and A d v e rtis in g , to c re a te and expand the market fo r . ceram ic t i l e . At th e. p r e s e n t time, T i l e Council members produce 9 p e rc e n t o f th e 313 m i ll io n square f e e t o f ceram ic t i l e produced annually in the United S ta te s .
To o b t a i n a f a c t u a l pi d u r e o f the s i g n i f i c a n c e o f t r e m o l i t i c t a l c
as a raw m a te ria l f o r th e t i l e in d u s try , I have confcrrod.w l.th
'
C h ief e x e c u t i v e s o f b o th T i l e Coun'ci 1 o f Anvrira mnmhnr and non
tim b er m a n u fa c tu re rs. Talc, is used in a l l 32 American Wall t i l e
f a c t o r i e s to reduce s h r in k a g e , and th ereb y c o n tro l th e u n ifo rm ity
o f size' required in a l l ceram ic.tile. T alc also' reduces moisture
expansion, thereby ei IrninaUng the occurrence o f cracks and .crazing
t h a t would o t h e r w i s e o c c u r s e v e r a l years, a f t e r I n s t a l l a t i o n . To
achieve th is de? ired:di:mens:iortal.. sta b i i ity-,va t i l e b o d y i s composed
o f f r o m k5 p e r c e n t .to 7- p e r c e n t t a i c . . fal'c~alS Q I S" u sd *to:ima'nu--
factur ceramic bathroom, f ix tu re s , g lazesWfor ceramic t i l e and
ceramic mosaic flo o r t i l e . Talc is a component'of the refracto ries
that su p p o rt-tiles .during th eir manufacture.
' Twenty-five o f the thtr'ty-tw o ceramic t i l e fa c to rie s in th i s c o u n t r y
(ail o f those lo cated in United S tates Regional Marketing Arens
numbered 1, 2 , 3, 9 and 6 in t h e n s o n tu l y i n d u s t r i a l R e p o rts p u b l i s h e d
by the Deportment o f ConvrarceJ'.usc and depend on t r c i i p l i t i c t a l c . In
March o f 1373, a l o n e , t h e s e p l a n t s a r e r e p o r te d to have produced
17 ,579,000 s q u a r e f e e t o f g la z e d w all t i l e , o r Sb p e r c e n t o f t o t a l
domes t i c. p r o d u c t 1o n . The f a c t o r i e s in. t h e s e f i v e re g i o n s employ some
It,300 persons and produced 217,028,000 square fe e t o f glazed.-wall .
t i l e in 1972, r e p r e s e n t i n g $1 10 ,400,000.
-
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n r . Robert Bacon
-2 -
J u l y 18, t.973
Coramie t i l e m anufacturers, th e r e f o r e w ill be severely in ju re d should tr e m o litlc
t a l c become u n a v a i l a b l e o r sh o u ld they be compel ted to comply, In th e han dling
o f t h i s raw m a t e r i a l , w i t h t h e S t r i n g e n t new OSHA s ta n d a rd s f o r a s b e s t o s and o th e r
to x fc substances. A pplication f asbestos r e s tr i c ti o n s to tr e m o l i t i c t a l c would
c r i p p l e American m anufacturers* c a p a b i l it y of furnishing t h e i r pro d u ct in the
market that thpy have worked to create. Recognizing that th is m atter Is c r itic a l,
t h e Board o f Di r e c t o r s o f t h e V ile Council Of America h a s . r e q u e s te d t h a t I a s s i s t
and support the Talc Industry Association in Its p etitio n to exempt tr e m o litic
t a l c from in c lu s io n u n der OSHA s ta n d a r d s f o r a s b e s to s m i n e r a l s and o tb -veb
to x ic subs Dances.
.
The average a f t e r tax p r o f i t margin Is A,2 percent in th e t i l e in d u s try . This is
so tow,, i t is q u e s t i o n a b l e t h a t many ceram ic t i l e f a c t o r i e s c o u ld a f f o r d the
physical changes re q u ire d by im position on the handling o f t r e m o l i t l c t a l c o f the
' QSltA a s b e s to s s t a n d a r d s . Tht's becomes obvious when the i n d u s t r y p r o f i t s o f - 1.1
'p e r c e n t in 1963, 2 . 0 p e r c e n t In 1970 and 1.9 p e rc e n t in 1971 a r e c o n s i d e r e d . Some
o ld e r'fa c to r ie s .m ig h t w ell not a f f o r d 'th e $250,000 o r more In c a p it a l expenditures
requi red. to' comply.
'
The a l t e r n a t i v e - r e p l a c i n a t h i s b a s i c raw m a te r ia l w ith some o t h e r p ro d u c t -
would a l s o be e x tr e m e ly d f r f i c u l t and c o s t l y a5 t o ' t i m e , c o s t o f e x p e rim e n ta tio n ,
and passible revamping o f d i e s and other-equipment. Reserves o f t h e ta lc -lik e
mineral.,, pyrophyl 1i t e , which i s used t o manufacture-some, t i l e , a r e I n s u f f i c i e n t
t o meet demands s h o u l d t r e m o l i t l c t a l c become u n a v a i l a b l e . F u r t h e r , the value of
e x i s t i n g in v e n t o r i e s a t fco.th f a c t o r i e s and d i s t r i b u t o r s v/oul d be s e r i o u s l y a f f e c t e d ,
iln'rr:
march i n s o f sir.c nnd sharin'would hrv-irjrinsirihle. F in s ! ly, t h e m is no
q u e s t io n th at the q u a l i t y o f th e product would s u f f e r by any such change, making
. iit even more d i f f i c u l t to 'c o m p e te v/ith th e lower co st o f f o r e i g n Im ports w hile
. m aintaining q u a ilty standards for th e domestic industry. Thus the a 'te r n a tt v e for
Some. American m a n u f a c tu r e r s could be-economical 1y I m p r a c t i c a l and cau se them to
go.-out of. business.
.
'
.W ith th e s e c h o ic e s , one company has r e p o r te d to m e t h a t , I f th e s t r i n g e n t asb e s to s
s t a n d a r d s a re Imposed on t r e m o l i t i c t a l c , th e y w i l l have t o c l o s e down and b u i l d
a. p l a n t in a f o r e i g n c o u n tr y and e x p o r t t o th e U n ited S t a t e s , t h u s , t h e r e i s no
, question.,but that the domestic ceramic wall t i le industry w ill be seriously injured
i f OSHA req'ui res"treriio"l i t f c - t a l c t o be c l a s s i f i e d and h a n d le d a s a t o x i c a sb e s to s
mineral.. .
-
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'- - -
Si.nceiu!/ yours,
Ji. )i ''fd y y x tltl'
'l. ,V.,, F it z g e r a l d .
JVFznk.
J'.. Bruce IF.. Cibney
CRMC-BEV-000365
We are attorn eys fo r B. T. V an d erb ilt Company, In c. w ith o f f i c e s a t 230 Park Avenue, Wew York, N .Y ., and fo r
In tern a tio n a l Talc Co., In c. w ith o ffic e s at 420 Lexington
.Avenue, Hew York, N.Y. Our c l i e n t s , e it h e r d ir e c t ly or through w h olly owned s u b s id ia r ie s , are miners and producers
o f ta le.
Pursuant to .29 CFB 1 9 1 1 .3 , we hereby p e t i t i o n , on b eh alf o f our said c lie n ts , for the m odification o f the a ir contam inants and a sb estos standards promulgated pursuant to
th e O ccupational S a fety and H ealth Act (29 U.S.C. 655)
The p e t i t i o n .
S p e c if ic a lly , we p e t i t i o n fo r th e m o d ific a tio n o f Table g- 3 (Mineral D usts) o f 29 CFB 1 9 1 0 .9 3 , and we fu rth e r p e t i t i o n fo r the m o d ifica tio n o f 2 9 CFB 1910-93( a 5 0ur p a r tic u la r proposals are'attach ed hereto as Appendix 1.
. The proposed amendment to the sa id Table G-3 would d ivid e the reference therein to the mineral tremo}i t e in to two separate referen ces, one being fo r non-asbestiform tremol i t e and th e oth er b eing for' asb estiform tr e m o lite , and would consolidate the refcvonccs therein to ta lc into a sin g le r e fe r e n c e . We propose th a t n on -asb estiform tr e m o lite and
CRMC-MAD-000355
Da v i s , G iudeiuv Le v in e & S c h w a r tz
Hon. John Stender
-2-
. July 19, 1973
t a lc he su b ject to th e m ineral dust standard, and th a t a s b e s tiform tr e m o lite con tin u e to he su b ject to th e a sb e sto s standard.
The proposed amendment to S e c tio n 1 9 1 0 .9 3 (a ) v/ouxd amend-the d e f in it io n o f asb esto s so as to in clu d e th erein the a sb estifo rm forms o f tr e m o lit e , a n th o p h y llite and a e t i n o l i t e , and d e fin e " fib e r " , a l l based on th e d e f in it io n s o f th e Amerle a n S o c ie ty f o r T e s tin g and M a teria ls (D e sig n a tio n : D29h6-71T) .
Background.
The p r e s e n t d e f i n i t i o n o f a s b e s to s , as con tain ed in
th e a s b e s to s standard (29 CFR 1 9 1 0 .9 3 a ), in c lu d e s th e r e in , as
asb estos, the m ineral treraolite. I t appears th a t th is in clu
s io n was made r a th e r lo o s e l y . For example, th e c r i t e r i a
document (H5M 72 10267) o f th e N a tio n a l I n s t i t u t e f o r Occu
p a tio n a l S a fe ty and H ealth m entions tr e m o lite on ly on ce, and
ijhptt.
jjtsv
i'fDindB.t.i avt - tsyocsccls on th e
assumption th a t tr e m o lite i s an asbestiform m in era l. L it t le
.or no a tte n tio n was paid to trem o lite during subsequent hear
in g s .and p r o c e e d in g s'. T alc p rod u cers, n o t r e a l i s i n g th a t tr e m o lite was being considered as an asb estiform m ineral, did
not p a rticip a te in the hearings preceding the adoption o f the
asb estos standard,"and thus found them selves fa c in g a f a i t
accom pli when th e a s b e s to s standard was adopted. Treraolite
i s o fte n found mixed w ith th e pure m ineral t a l c , and i s con
sidered to be a normal part o f In d u strial t a lc . This in turn
has led to in d u str ia l ta lc being considered under the asbestos
standard a s some kind o f a s b e s to s . The. e f f e c t o f t h i s con
sideration o f in d u stria l ta le as asbestos portends disastrous
economic consequences, h e rein a fter d iscu ssed , w ithout any firm
s c ie n t if ic b a s is or r e su ltin g h ealth b e n e fit to j u s t if y same.
Wc subm it th a t th e in c lu s io n o f a l l t r e m o lit e , v /ith in the
d e fin itio n o f asb estos contained in the asb estos standard, is
i n e rro r f o r m in e r a lo g ic a l and n o d ic a l r e a so n s, and hence we
arc filin g th is p e titio n for m odification.
,
, /
M ineralogy.
' Enclosed her, w ith i s a paper (Appendix 2) e n title d " D iscu ssio n o f th e M ineralogy o f I n d u s tr ia l T alcs" by C. b. Thompson, P h .D ., to g e th e r w ith th e accompanying p i c t o r i a l stu d y.
CRMC-MAD-000356
I
Da v is , Giudert, Le v in e & S cirw A rz
Hon.John Stonder
-3-
July 19; 1973
Dr. Thompson demonstrates th a t tr e m o lite Is an a sb esto s
m ineral only in rare circum stances. His d iscu ssion o f mineral-
u g ic a l h is to r y , examined in con ju n ction w ith h J icm atic .
photomiorotfraphie presentation, clearly demonstrates th a t i f
tr e m o lite , lik e r ie b e c k ite , only.had a d if fe r e n t nomo fo r i t s
fib ro u s form, then th is p e titio n would be e n tir e ly unnecessary.
However, sin ce the term "trem olite" covers .a ll v a r ie t ie s ,
a sb estifo r m and n on-asb estiform , said m ineral has been lumped,
even in i t s non-asbestiforro form, w ith the fib rou s asbestiform
m in e r a ls. The proposed amendment t o Table 0-3 w i l l make th is
d i s t in c t i o n between th e asb estiform and n on-asbestiform forms
o f tr e m o lite , retaining th e former w ithin the s tr ic tu r e s o f the
asb estos standard, w hile releg a tin g the la tte r to the mineral
dust standard where i t more p rop erly b elo n g s. I t w i l l further
remove th e confusing reference to " talc fib ro u s" , sin c e ta le
is fib rou s only by v irtu e o f other minerals contained therein,
which m inerals should- be governed by the p a r tic u la r standards
a f f e c t i n g them. Said proposed amendment a ls o w i l l supply an
accepted d efin itio n o f "fiber", enabling a l l a ffc ite d p arties
to know w ith c e r ta in ty th e nature o f th e m ineralogies.! fe m e
which arc -the su b ject o f th e standards; i t w i l l f i l l a g la r -
.ing om ission in the present standard by p la cin g the d efin itio n
in th e standard i t s e l f , rath er than req u irin g r e lia n c e on some
u nspecified source.
.
Medicial Stud'i e s .
.
.
.There heretofore appear to have been few au th oritative
w r itin g s on the fib r o g e n ic ity and c a r c in o g e n ic ity o f in d u str ia l t a l c s , one o f th ese few was by Morris K lc in fe ld , M.D. Dr. ' K lc in fe ld has now s i g n i f i c a n t ly furthered h is stu d y , and t h is was done a t our c l i e n t s ' o p e r a tio n s. Wc are su b m ittin g to you
h erew ith "Paper Presented at th e Metal and N on m ctallic Mine H ealth and S a fety Svmposium o n Tale Dust Hazards on May 8,
1973" by Morris k lc in f e ld , M.D. (Appendix 3 ) , "The B io lo g ic a l A c tio n o f Talc and o t h e r 'S ilic a t e Minerals" by G crr it W. H. S ch cp ere, M.D., D .Se. (Appendix 4) and "Experimental S tu dies on B io lo g ic a l E ffects, o f T rem olite Talc on Hamsters'1 by William E. Sm ith, M.D. (Appendix 5 ) . For, even le a v in g a s id e the problem o f the non-fibrous nature o f most tr e m o lite , there would s t i l l remain th e q u estion as to th e p h y s ic a l e f f e c t th e r e o f on the h ealth o f th e workers u sin g some. But what p h y s ic a l e v i l s can be shown to be caused by tr e m o lite ?
- ..... : frtWfc'jit
..... , .
K im
___ _ .
. Vt't tn.1. *(eM ie t e ' i K J.....
CRMC-MAD-000357
Da v is , Giu je h t , Le v in e & S chwartz
Hon, John Stender
rty-
-July 19, 1973
C r o c id o llt c , c h r y o o t ile and am osite a re o fte n m entioned i n
m edical lite r a tu r e in connection w ith various pathogenic
r e sp o n se s and h y p o th e se s, b u t i t appears th a t tr c m o lit,. XL
n o t so m entioned. We b e lie v e th a t th e q u estio n has been
ra th e r d e f i n i t i v e l y answered by D rs. K le ln fe ld , Schepers and
Sm ith. The q u a l i f i c a t io n s o f th e s e d o ctors are beyond q u es
t i o n , and t h e ir exp erien ce i s v a s t . They a re t r u ly ex p erts
in the broad f ie ld o f the e ffe c ts o f s ilic a t e m inerals. I t
would bo & d iaoorvico to their- p resen ta tio n s to attem pt to
summarize them in any way h er e , and probably u n n ecessary.
S u ffic e i t to' say th a t th e experim ental, c lin ic a l and e p i
d e m io lo g ic a l evid en ce com piled by them p o in ts in e sc a p a b ly to
th e c o n c lu s io n th a t t a l c and t r e m o lit ic t a l c s a re b i o l o g i c a l l y
in e r t , n on -carcin ogen ic, and w ith l i t t l e or no adverse fib r o -
gerJLc e f f e c t , o r e f f e c t on th e h e a r t . Given t h i s la c k o f
p a th o g e n ic e f f e c t , we su g g e st t h a t tr e m o lite (b u t, i n th e
in t e r e s t s of. lim it in g our r e q u e st, on ly th e n o n -fib reu s form
t h e r e o f ) be tr e a te d a s .o t h e r m in era l d u s t. We th in k th a t
th e m aterials here enclosed rather con clu sively esta b lish
^*&5jLC
C**T t i . " * m
5
Oil "txlS Sllfe--
. j e c t o f "asbestos" sim ply do not d eal d ir e c tly w ith the sub
j e c t o f t r e m o lite and in d u s t r ia l t a l c s , and are n o t a p p o site
t o t h i s p e t i t i o n . We know o f no s tu d ie s co n tra ry t o th o se
presented here.
Economic Im pact.
I t i s n a tu r a lly tem p tin g , when d e a lin g w ith a su b je c t o f such importance as h ea lth , to regu late broadly on th e theory th a t such regu lation w ill aid in achieving the d esired g o a l. But however l o f t y the m otives, th e more mundane su b je c ts, such as th e economic impact o f such reg u la tio n , must be c a r e fu lly con sid ered , fo r they too have an enormous e f f e c t on the q u a lity
o f l i f e . So a ls o , in evalu atin g the asb estos standard as i t r e la t e s to in d u s tr ia l t a l c s , th e e f f e c t s th e r e o f, n ot only on t a l c miners and m ille r s , but a ls o on th ose workers and b u s i n e sse s which depend on t a l c , and on consumers Who u se products
made w ith t a l c , must be c a r e fu lly weighed.
.
T r e m o litic t a l c s make up ap proxim ately o n c -h a lf o f
a l l t a l c s mined in th e Ur.tted S t a t e s . Such t a lc s a re used
e x t e n s iv e ly in th e p a in t , rubber, p l a s t i c s and ceram ic w a ll
t i l e in d u s tr ie s . I f such talc'"are to be considered as
CRM C-M AD-000358
Da v is . Gilb e r t . Le v in e & Schwartz
Hon. John Stcnder
-5-
' July 19. 1973
asbestos under the asbestos standard, then, as h erein after d iscussed, both the p ain t and ceramic t i l e in d u stries w ill have to elim inate the use o f t a l c . With th e ir major users thus gone, our c lie n ts w ill be forced out o f the ta lc ..ti n eas. The lo c a l e f fe c t b i 'this" w ill be severe. Loth oi bur c lie n ts have f a c i l i t i e s in S t. Lawrence County, New. York. This county i s an economically impacted area (see l e t t e r dated June 20, 1973 from Congressman Robert c . McEwen to A ssistan t Secretary of Labor John Stendcr, attached hereto as Appendix 6 } . The t a le operations o f our two c lie n t s em p loy 373 peop le, whose aggregate annual p a y ro ll, including fr in g e s, amounts to almost 4 m illio n d o lla r s, in ad dition , our c lie n ts pay almost a quarter o f a m illio n d o lla r s annual l y in lo c a l and s ta te ta x e s, i f our c lie n ts are forced to discontinue th eir ta lc operations, because of a lo s s of cus tomers, then th e aforesaid job s, with the accompanying p ayrolls and the taxes paid, w i l l a l l simply disappear. The impact of t h is on any a r e a , and e sp e c ia lly 'o n on impacted a rea, i s not hard to imagine. .
In addition, i f our clien ts arc forced to th e ir ta lc operations, certain of th e ir suppliers w ill also be hard h it . For example, our c lie n ts annually purchase over a quarter of a m illion d o lla rs in products o f the paper bag Industry. In ad dition , bur c lie n ts pay more than 4 .7 m illio n dollars annually to the transportation industry for transpor ta tio n o f t a l c products. .The*se supplying in d u str ie s would th erefore s u ffe r su b sta n tia l danage i f our c lie n t s must d is continue th e ir ta lc op eration s. And the fig u res given above do not r e f le c t the fu rther damage which w i l l be done when other miners of ta lc are forced out of operation by lo s s of customers
` As t o th e e f f e c t on th e p a in t in d u s tr y o f th e ap p lic a tio n o f the a sb esto s standard.to tr e m o litic t a lc s , attach ed h ere to as Appendix 7 i s a l e t t e r dated July 3, 1973 from Royal A. Brown o f th e N a tio n a l P a in t & C o a tin g s A s s o c ia t io n t o Mr. Gerard S c a n n e ll, D ir e c to r o f th e O f f ic e o f S ta n d a rd s, O ccupational S a fety and H ealth A d m in istration . I t i s apparent therefrom th a t th e im p lica tio n o f the a sb esto s stanOaro to " 'in d u s t r ia l tfci.co rf'lj.*. ror.dei- l- u o t is lta e ' i-no conu.n;iou Uf~~o f t a l c by tn c y n ih t ' xnuxtstr;/. The j o s s ' ox' \.ue~ p a in t in o u s tr y as1a custom er, v ;iii, in i t s e l f , require our c lie n t s to coasc . operations in th e t a lc f ie l d , w ith a l l o f th e concom itant econom ic r e s u lt s whh.h nave-been d isc u sse d ab ove. I n .a d d itio n , p lease note th at the use of a su b stitu te m aterial In p aints 'would r e s u lt in h ig h e r c o s ts to th e consumer fo r p rod u cts .
C R M C -M A D -000359
Da v is , Giuoeijt, Le v in e & S ciiwaht'/
Hon- John Stender
-6-
July 1 9 , 1973
which could f a i l to provide the standard of performance o f
the e x istin g coatings products", In these days o f severe
I n fla tio n , i t i s ce rta in ly .c le a r that consumers
v,nH do
without Increased co sts, coupled with in ferior products.
Yet the continued application of the asbestos standard to
trem olitic ta lcs w ill, in the paint field , result in ju st
that,
'
,
With, respect to th e e ffe c t on the ceram ic t i l e
industry o f the ap p lication o f th e osbeGtos standard to tremo l i t i c t a l c s , attached hereto as Appendix 8 i s a ' l e t t e r dated
July 18, 1 9 7 3 from J. V. F itzg era ld o f the T ile C ou n cil'of
America, xnc. to Mr. Robert Bacon o f R, T. V anderbilt Company, In c. I t would b a f a ir summary o f Mr. F itz g e r a ld !s statement
to say that t'ne ap p lication o f the asbestos standard to the t a lc s used in the ceramic t i l e industry may very w e ll r e su lt in the destruction o f th at industry. Note that tw en ty-five
o f the th irty -tw o -ceramic t i l e fa c to r ie s in th e United S tates denend on tr e m o litic t a l c , th a t they produce over .80fS o f the L o ts! American production o f ceramic t i l e , o f a voivic o f iiO m illio n d o lla r s , uid Umt these la c lo r ie s d ir e c tly employ some h,300 persons. The technology o f th at in d u stry, coupled
V ith the economics th er eo f, makes i t p la in th at said industry ennno't survive in t h is country i f i t must apply the asb estos standard to i t s use of trem o litic ta lc .
Environmental Impact.
Effectuation o f th e m odification of. th e asb estos standard, hero proposed, should have no -adverse environmental Impact. Although the Environmental Protection Adm inistration
has defined "asbestos" in th e same manner as has th e Occupa tio n a l Safety and Health Adm inistration, i t i s c le a r th at the Environmental Protection Administration has never considered in d u str ia l t a le an coming w ith in the ambit o f i t s asb estos re g u la tio n s. - For in i t s em ission standard fo r manufacturing (!|0 CFR 6 1 .2 2 (c )), no mention whatsoever i s made o f th e manu factu re o f ceramic w all t i l e , which industry, in i t s e l f , i s one of the .largest users o f trem o litic ta le s . Furthermore, in a l e t t e r dated June 13, 1973 to the counsel fo r th e N ational Paint & Coati:.r,,3 A ssociation (attached hereto as Appendix 9 ), the Environmental P rotection Administration stated * * * the
CRMC-MAD-OOOldo
Da v is , Giu je u t , Le v in e 6cScirvvAicrz
Hon. John stcndcr
-7-
July 19 1973
standards were never Intended to cover the manufacturing o f p a in ts or coatings when commercial or in d u stria l t a l c I n u sed
as an inrcrcdlcnt." i n is was" reaac "even clearer 'oy crie t,,. n -
meritai P rotection Administration in lt o le t t e r o f June 20,
1973 to Hr. A llen Harvey o f R. T. Vanderbilt Company, In c.
(attached hereto as Exhibit 1 0 ), wherein i t was sta ted th at #* * * the asb estos standards do not apply to any manufacturing
p rocesses th at use c o a se r c ie l or in d u stria l t a lc as an in gre-
dicht *
(emphasis added). Said Administration conss-
quentiy plans to amend i t s regu lation s to make t h i s c le a r .
From the foregoing, we b e lie v e i t obvious th a t the granting
of the proposed m od ification w i l l not have adverse environ
mental impact.
'
Conclusion.
For a l l o f th e foregoing reasons, we submit th a t the inclusion of non-asbestiforo trem olite in the asbestos standard i s an error, which error should be corrected . A ccordingly, -?c- request th at "biz G- 3 and th e a sb esto s standard be amended as we have proposed in Appendix 1 . N either the sa fe ty nor the h ea lth o f the American worker . .w ill be adversely a ffe c te d by such amendment, which amendment w i l l e f f e c t iv e ly p reserv e.th e Jobs and liv e lih o o d s o f thousands.
PBGibney, ,1r . /rw
>LJ
Enclosure
P etition - 5 additional copies
Appendix 3 - 6 cop ies
Appendix 2 - 6 copies
Photomicrographic Study - 3 copies
Appendix 3 - 6 copies
Appendix A - 6 cop ie-
photon, o f s lid e s accompanying
Appendix H - 2 copies
Appendix 5 - copies
Appendix 6 - copies
Appendix 7 Appendix 0 Appendix 9 Append!* io -
copies copies copies
copies
000361
Johns-Manville
A ( c ' / i t / '?
Internal Correspondence
in F. L. PundsacK - RsD C enter Ost: August 2 8 , 1973 S . S p e il - R&D Centex
Copie*'
SuoiKi TREMOLITE IN TALC
You asked th a t I rev iew th e background fo r pur d e c is io n not to support V anderbilt's claim that "trem olite is n o t asb e i:Os". \
I need not dw ell n the tec h n ica l reasons in volved sin ce you are w e ll acquainted w ith th e s e . However, t o summarize b r i e f l y , t r e m o l i t e i s an araphibole m in era l d if f e r in g from am o site, c r o c id o lit e , and, o th e r amphiboles' on ly in the s u b s titu tio n o f calcium fo r p art o f th e magnesium, ir o n , an d/or sodium, p r e s e n t-in th e in te r n a l str u c tu r e o f other am phiboles.- F ib ers o f tr e m o lite and a o t in o l it e are g en era lly much s h o r t e r and u s u a lly more b r i t t l e than t h o s e o f c r o c i d o lit e and amositsf and, th e r e fo r e , fin d l i t t l e commercial . u t i l i t y as a r e in f o r c in g a g e n t. From a s c i e n t i f i c sta n d p o in t, any tr e m o lite p a r t ic le s which are fib er-form must be ca teg o rized as {asbestos s in c e a l l fibrous amphiboles are included in th is d e fin itio n .
The f i r s t in d ica tijion o f J-M 's sta n d on t r e m o lit e a s an a s b esto s m ineral i s included in th e minutes o f a m eeting o f C elite and E nvironm ental p e r s o n n e l'h e ld on October 2 , 1972 (se e A ttachm ent A ). The c o n c lu s io n s o f t h i s m eetin g reg a rd in g r e c l a s s i f i c a t i o n o f t r e m o lit e i s summarized on page 5 and in c lu d e s t h e fo il*ow.in g s ta te m e n ts:
"E. M. Fenner exprce sse d firm o p in io n t h a t we h a v e n 't g o t a p rayer co n cern in g e s t a b lis h in g a v a ria n c e o r amendment t o th e OSHA r e g u la tio n w:1th r e s p e c t - t o t r e m o lit e " ..................... "Fur th erm o re, e . M. Fenner and H. M. Jackson r e p o r t t h a t am osite and c r o c id o lite have proven c a u sa tiv e to m esotheliom a. Both these m aterials have a 'fib rou s' nature th a t is sim ilar to t r e m o l i t e . The e l e c t r o n m icrographs e x h ib ite d in a symposium o f p apers p resen te d t o th e Canadian i n s t i t u t e o f Mining and M etallurgy and re p r in te d by the' Quebec A sb estos Mining A sso c ia tio n '1958' e x h ib it t h is c h a r a c te r is tic on pages 21-23 com paring am osite,! c r o c i d o l i t e , and t r e m o lit e . Thus, H. M. Jackson e x p r e sse d th e o p in io n t h a t an a tta c k on 'f ib e r s ' d e lin e a te d (om tr e m o lite would be a long-term stu d y. Tre m o lit e was n o t s e p a r a te ly i d e n t i f i e d in th e OSHA h e a r in g , so e v id e n c e would haxje t o be d ev elo p ed to d is c la im t r e m o lite fu n c tio n in g a s an a s b e s t o s m in e r a l. There appears -to be no
CRMC-MAD-000347
-2
L. Pundsack
August 2 8 , 1873
area o f attack by r e c l a s s i f i c a t i o n o f tramol i t o through m irieralogical or s t r u c t u r a l d e f i n i t i o n . Any approach to d isa sso cia tio n w ill require m edical evidence."
Although no R esearch r e p r e s e n ta t iv e s were p resen t a t t h i s m eeting, I h e a r tily agree w ith the conclusions of the group.
On January 11, 1 9 7 3 , s i S p e i l , R. S . Lamar, N. B. s h e f f e * , and E. L. Smith were g iv e n a p r e s e n ta tio n a t th e New York o f f i c e s o f R. T. V a n d er b ilt o f th e sto r y put to g e th e r by
Mr. C. s. Sm ith, V a n d e fb ilt g e o l o g i s t , to "prove" th a t
tr e m o lite , e s p e c i a l l y t h a t p resen t in th e V a n d erb ilt Company Hew York S ta te t a l c , was n o t a s b e s t o s . U n fo r tu n a te ly , t h i s p r e se n ta tio n gave no t e c h n ic a l ev id e n c e t o su pp ort V a n d e r b ilt1s p o s it io n . The photom icrographs showed t h a t th e p a r t i c l e s o f tr e m o lite w ere, in d e e d ! much sh o r te r than c h r y s o t il e f ib e r s and d id have an a sp ec t? r a t i o (L/D) l e s s than t h a t o f c r o c id o l i t e and am o site used com m ercially. However, th e L/D fo r many p a r t ic l e s was d e f i n i t e l y over 3 (th e p r e s e n t l i m i t e s t a b lis h e d by ACGH and a c c e p te d by OSHA) and, t h e r e f o r e , th ey would be in c lu d e d i n t h e ca te g o ry , o f " f ib e r s " . Many o f th e s e p a r tic le s had L /D 's g r e a te r than 10.
I t i s c o n c e iv a b le t h a t ] t h e p r e s e n ta tio n -would have an im pact on th e laym an, b u t a s s u r e d ly n o t on any person h a v in g t e c h n ic a l competence in th e f ie l d o f asbestos or a sb esto s reg u la tio n . The p r e s e n ta tio n r e l i e d h e a v ily oh laym an-type d e f i n i t i o n s o f a "fib er" from v a r i o u s )e n c y c lo p e d ia s and a l i s t o f a s b e s to s m inerals proposed by Mr. Thompson which he in d ic a t e d came from THE federal register and which in c lu d e d t r e m o li t e and a c tin o lite as n on -fib rou s v a r ie tie s . This inform ation i s in cluded as Attachment Bj
in the-am phibole f i e l d ] am osite and c r o c i d o li t e f ib e r s have th eir non-fibrous counterparts with s p e c ific term inology-- cummingtonite and r ie b e c k it e , r e s p e c tiv e ly . N orm ally, anthop h y ll it e , t r e m o lit e , and a c t in o lit e are used t o in c lu d e any occurrence o f th e se amphiboles whether fibrous or n on -fib rou s.
At t h is m eetin g I in d ic a t e d th a t J-M co u ld n o t su p p o rt t e c h n i c a l ly V a n d e r b ilt' s p o s i t i o n . Mr. Harvey s t a t e d t h a t th e T a lc Px'oducars had schedule** a m eeting in e a r ly February t o d ev elo p new d e f in i t io n s o f a s b e s t o s t a l c , and com m ercial .ta lc which they would p rop ose fo r ja c c e p ta n c e by an ASTM Subcom m ittee on P a in ts and P igm en ts. Once accep ted ,, t h i s would s e r v e as a springboard to f o s te r approval by G overnm ent-regulating agen c ie s . i p o in ted o u t th a t d e fin itio n s for a sb esto s and for th e term "fiber" a lrea d y e x is te d under th e a u sp ic es o f o th e r ASTM groups and agreed | t o supply t h is in fo r m a tio n , as w e ll as
t
CRM C-MAD..000348
F- L. Pundsack
August 28, 1973
to p a r tic ip a te in tl)e February 5 m eeting on d e fin itio n s . S u b se q u e n tly , I se n t to Mr. Thompson c o p ie s o f th e d e f i n i t i o n s r e la t in g t o " a sb e sto s f ib e r " under ASTM D2946-71T in w hich f i b e r was d e fin e d w ith a L/D. o f 10:1 as w e ll as th e d e f i n i t i o n o f f ib e r fo r t e x t i l e p urposes under ASTM Committee D123 in which an L/D o f a t l e a s t 100 was s p e c i f i e d . T hese a re in c lu d e d a s A ttachm ent C,
At th e February 5 m eeting none o f the atten d ees from o th er
t a lc producers concurred w ith th e V a n d erb ilt p ro p o sa l th a t
t r e m o lit e was n ot a s b e s t o s .. D uring th e d is c u s s io n I empha
sized :
l
'
1. th a t one o f the major item s req u irin g a ctio n was to ' s e c u r e e lim in a t io n o f t h e ACGIH d e f i n i t i o n " t a lc ( f ib r o u s ) -
T rem o lite" and tjhe co n co m ita n t 5' f i b e r s / c c TLV e s t a b lis h e d by th e ACGIH; [
2 . t h a t 'tr e m o lite p,a r t i c l e s c o u ld b e c la s s e d as n o n -fib r o u s
o r fib r o u s depemd in g upon t h e L/D r a t io fo r ea c h i n d i -
v id u a l p a r t ic le and th a t th e th r u s t h ere should be to attem pt to estab l i s h a h ig h er L/D than the 3:1 cu rren tly a ccep ted . Been se tim e was o f th e essen ce, 1 suggested t h a t we prop ose th e 1 0 :1 r a t i o o f ASTM D e sig n a tio n D2946-71T;
3. t h a t we n o t tr y !to r e d e f in e a s b e s t o s t o s p e c i f i c a l l y e x clude trem o lite sin ce assu redly th is could only lead to a
long-term tech n ica l and s c i e n t i f i c debate;
4 . t h a t any p r e s e n ta tio n t o t h e FDA o r t o t h e Bureau o f Mines
Symposium which had b een -arran ged a t V a n d e r b ilt's b e h e s t sh o u ld co n c e n tr a te oni th e m e d ic a l.ev id e n c e reg a rd in g th e
d iffe r e n c e in b io lo g ic a l e f f e c t o f tr e m o lite and oth er amphibole fibers!; and,
5. th a t we propose k s in g le d e f in it io n o f commercial t a lc which would in clu d e a ll types o f t a lc and, th e r e fo r e , e lim in a te the need fo r d if f e r e n t ia t in g between "pure"
t a l c and t a l c ( fib r o u s ) -T r e m o lite as d e fin e d by t h e ACGIH.
In g e n e r a l th e s e recommendations were adopted by th e group and t h e f o llo w in g d e f i n i t i o n p rop osed by me wcia tcHtatl-VC ly a ccep ted lor p resen tation to the Talc Producers A ssociation:
" In d u strial ta lc is a product varying in m ineral
c o m p o sitio n from th e m in e r a l t a l c 1 M96*s *820^ (oK)4J to m ixtures o f m ineral t a l c and o th er n a tu ra lly a sso c i a t e d non-fibr<j>ua a n d /o r fib r o u s m in e ra ls as d e f in e d by ASTM D esign"jiirn D 2946-71."
CRMC-MAD-000349
-4-
l'u nclaad k
August 28, 1973
Acceptance o f th
change o f the W: trem olite partic; fo r e , from th e . a p ercen tage o f th' as "asbestos f i this d efin ition agencies would.
s d e fin itio n would a u tom atically in fe r a
o f a f ib e r to 1 0 i l and e lim in a t e many
e s -from th e " fib er" c a te g o ry and, t h e r e b e sto s ca teg o ry . However, a co n sid era b le
t r e m o lit e p a r t i c l e s would s t i l l be classed r A l t h o u g h ASTM would p rob ab lv a cc ep t f t a lc , I frankly doubt whether ^ vemment
Subsequent to thi s m e e tin g , R. S. lamar on January 3 1, 1973,
proposed t o P. A. M artinson t h a t we is s u e a l e t t e r g iv in g our p o s itio n to ur custom ers and th e in d u str y , and s t a t in g
th a t tr e m o lite i s an a s b e s to s m in e ra l. I commented a t le n g th on t h is l e t t e r on F ebruary 14 ( s e e Attachm ent D) recommending th a t we n o t sen d o u t su ch a l e t t e r . The m ajor t h r u s t o f my comment was addre:s e e d to th e p o in t th a t t r e m o lit e can b e e i t h e r fibrous or n o n -fi brous, i . e . , e ith e r asb estos o r n ot depending
on the sh ape o f e,ach in d iv id u a l p a r t i c l e and t h a t we sh o u ld
not c a te g o r ic a lly s t a te th a t a l l trem o lite was indeed a sb e sto s, (in c id e n ta lly ,- s Olftle o f my much e a r l i e r comments m ig h t be i n t e r preted as in d ic a t in g th a t a l l trem o lite was a sb e sto s.)
Since that tim e I trem olite in ta lc
resp on sib ility. Mines Seminar in p r im a r ily t o raedi. e f f e c ts o f tremol, stand th a t th e V. which was given
n o t a s b e s t o s " , buour d iscu ssion s.
have had e s se n tia lly no contact w ith the s itu a tio n which has been B i l l s t r e ib 's .
ly u n d ersta n d in g i s t h a t a t th e Bureau o f ay 1973 t h e J-M p r e s e n t a t io n w as r e s t r i c t e d a l a sp e c ts, d iffe r e n tia tin g between the
te and other asb estos fib e r s . I a lso underd e r b i l t p resen tation in c lu d e d th e same s t o r y
us in January, to "prove th a t tr e m o lite was
p o s s ib ly m od ified somewhat in th e lig h t o f
In Ju ly 1973 V a n d e r b ilt through t h e i r a tto r n e y s p e t it i o n e d OSHA t o m odify a s b e s t o s sta n d a rd s prom ulgated p u rsu a n t t o th e OSHA A ct. T h is i s p r e s e n te d in Attachm ent E. I am e n t i r e l y in accord w ith t h e ir p e t it i o n - t o rep la ce th e word "trem olite" by "a sb e stifo r m tr e m o lite " t o d is t in g u is h t h i s from t h e non
fib r o u s (by d e f i n i t i o n ) forms o f t r e m o lit e . In t h i s way non-
asb estiform tr e m o lite and t a lc would be su b je c t to th e "mineral dust standard" and a sb estifo rm tr e m o lite would con tin u e to be
subject to the "asbestos standard".
Their p rop osal summarized in Appendix I o f Attachm ent E i s based
on th e February 5 m eetin g p r e v io u s ly r e fe r r e d to and, th e r e fo r e , i s e n t i r e l y a c e e p ta b le althou gh p e r s o n a lly I s e e no p o s s i b i l i t y o f Gooveerrnnmment a g e n c ie s changing th e It</D d e tfiinn i t i o n
o f a Liber from 3 iX to 1 0 i l e x c e p t by th e p r e s e n ta t io n o f
-5-
X#. Pundsack
August 28, 1973
v a lid medical evidence to support such a change. Some'of
th e work th a t th e QAMA i s su p p o rtin g a t F a ir le ig h D ickenson and th e work b e in g done by Stanton on s iz e d f ib e r s prepared `by us might se rv e as th e b a sis for regu estin g such a proposed change which w ould, undoubtedly, be opposed by S e lik o ff on the basis of the lin ite^ l data availab le.
in cid en ta lly , I have be4n to ld thirdhand that V anderbilt
secured concurrence o f xjheir o r ig in a l proposal to elim in a te
tr e m o iite as an a s b e s to s m in eral from Governmental regula
t io n s (EPA) and t h a t t h i s is . su pp orted by Appendices 9 and io
o f Attachment E. A c l o s e reading o f t h e s e l e t t e r s from EPA
in d ic a te s the p resen ce o f "weasel words" sin c e they both
include the statem ent "the standard i s ap p licab le, however, to p a in t and c o a tin g s m anufacturing when a sb e sto s a s d e fin e d
by 40' CFR 6 1 .2 0 , w ith th e above e x c e p t io n , i s u sed in th e
manufacturing p rocess" .
T rem oiite i s in c lu d e d as an a sb e s to s m in eral in 40 CFR 6 1 , and even though both, l e t t e r s s t a t e th a t 40 CFR 6 1 , N a tio n a l Emis sio n Standards f o r Hazardous A ir P o llu ta n ts , w i l l be amended in order to properly c la r ify th is situ a tio n , n either le tte r in d ic a te s th a t' trem olitej w i l l be removed from th e d e f in i t io n o f 40 CFR 6 1 .2 1 . I t i s h ard to understand how in d u s t r ia l t a l c ,
some o f which co n ta in s 50 per ce n t or more o f t r e m o iite , can be s p e c if ic a lly excluded m erely by c a llin g th is m aterial t a lc (containing trem o iite) rather th a n .c a llin g i t trem o iite (con taining t a lc ) .
A copy o f th e a p p lic a b le p ortion s o f the N ational Em ission Standards fo r Hazardous Air P o llu ta n ts for asb esto s i s in eluded as Attachment F.
In th e J-M " c r is is " m eetin g on August 2 4 , 1 9 7 3 , t o d is c u s s
the FDA d e c is io n t o i s s u e proposed stand ard s on food grad e t a lc which presumably would a lso in clu d e t a le used in paper f"o r wrapp"ing f o o d"s , R. P C arter s t a t e d th a t h e had been t o l d by FDA m iddle-m anagement p_ erso n n el r e s_p o n s ib le f o r p_ re_p arin g_ the reg u la tio n s th a t they were in favor o f issu in g an in terim regulation which would Continue th e sta tu s quo fo r a t le a s t 2
to 3 years w h ile t e c h n ic a l and m ed ica l ev id e n c e were b ein g accum ulated t o in s u r e a f a i r and r e a so n a b le s e t o f regulations However, they had been in s tr u c te d in s te a d by t h e ir su p e r io r , the new Comm issioner o f FDA, to prepare proposed r e g u la tio n s ' re str ic tin g the use o f talc-con tain in g asbestiform m inerals for immediate p u b lic a tio n . Carter was to ld th a t th e e n t ir e te c h n ic a l and m e d ic a l ev id e n c e p resen te d by J-M and o th e r in d u s t r ia l p e t i t i o n e r s wks co m p letely ig n o re d in t h is d e c is io n which was m o tiv a te d by ;4J i t i c a l p ressu re from th e Environmen
t a l D efense Fund and o th p r groups.
CRlviC-MAD-000351
(f
I f f i l Johns-Manville
To: F . J . S o l o n , J r .
-%
Internal Correspondence I
Date: J u l y 1 6 , 1 9 7 4
-Kc
*cm' R, P . C a r te r Copies: P i l e & Chrono
Subject: TREM0LITE ASBESTOS
,
...
E v e r s i n c e A u g u s t 1 2 , 1 9 7 2 , w hen t h e Food & Drug
A d m in istra tio n p u b lish ed a p rop osed r e g u la tio n w hich
would p r o h ib it th e u se o f t a l c c o n ta in in g a s b e s to s in
food and food p a ck a g in g m a teria ls, R. T. V a n d erb ilt
Company, a le a d in g ta lc jp r o d u c e r ,. h as tak en th e
p o sitio n th a t th e trem olite in th e ir ta lc is not fib ro u s,
I
b ut a c ic u la (n e e d le -lik e ), and th e r e fo r e cannot be con
sid ered " a sb esto s."
]
S id S p e i l , B i l l S t r e ib , D ick Lamar and o th e r p e r so n n e l
from J-M , in c lu d in g m y s e lf, h ave a tte n d e d m e e tin g s w ith
V an d erb ilt to exp lore th e ir r a tio n a le fo r such a p o s itio n .
Our R e se a rch p e o p le have a lw a y s ta k e n th e p o s it io n t h a t
th ey can n ot agree w ith V a n d erb ilt's approach, as tr em o lite
f
i s f ib r o u s , b u t h ave w ish ed them lu c k in c o n v in c in g v a r io u s
governm ent a g en cies on th e ir p o s itio n .
'V.:
N o t o n ly h a s V a n d e r b ilt taken su ch an a p p roach w it h FDA, b ut s im ila r ly through m eetin g s, le t t e r s and p e titio n s , w ith o th er governm ent a g en cies -- a l l o f th is inten ded to co n v in c e them n o t to c l a s s i f y a l l tr e m o lite a s " a sb e sto s.
T h u sfa r, V a n d e r b ilt has been s u c c e s s f u l w ith two governm ent
a g e n c i e s , EPA an d MESA, On May 3 , 1 9 7 4 , EPA p u b l i s h e d an
amendment to i t s A p ril 6 , 1973 N a tio n a l E m ission Standard
f o r A s b e s _t o__s_, w h e r e in t hl e y a d d e d t h e te r m " c o m ra e rica f . .
a s b e s to s " t'o d i s t in g u i s h b etw een a s b e s t o s t h a t i s p rod u ced
as a p rod u ct and a sb esto s th a t occu rs as a contam inant
in g r e d ie n t in o th e r m a te r ia ls . The p urpose o f ad din g th e
1
term "com m ercial asb esto|s" was to make i t c le a r th a t
l\
m a te r ia ls th a t c o n ta in ajsb estos as a contam inant o n ly , are
not covered.
I n t h e May 3 am end m ent, tePA i n d i c a t e d t h a t q u e s t i o n s w e re
s(
r a ise d con cern in g th e a p p lic a b ility o f th e standard to
Si
m a n u f a c t u r in g o p r a t io n s ) t h a t u s e d t a l c . EPA i n d i c a t e d _
th a t when t h e ir r e g u la tio n s were f i r s t p rop osed , t a lc m ines
w e r e n o t c o v e r e d b y t h e |EPA p r o p o s e d s t a n d a r d s ; t h i s w as
a ls o in ten d ed to in d ic a te th a t m anufacturing o p e r a tio n s
th a t u sed t a lc o r o th er M a teria ls contam inated w ith a sb e sto s
w ere n o t co v ered by th e standard.
9
CRMC-MAD-000317
Page 2 7 /1 6 /7 4
In a d d i t i o n , th e in f o r m a t io n a v a i l a b l e t o BPA a t t h e tim e o f prom ulgation {A pril 6, 1973) did n ot dem onstrate th a t th e m ining and m illin g o f such m a te r ia ls were major sou rces o f a s b e s t o s e m is s io n s . T h e r e fo r e , su ch m a t e r ia ls and manu f a c t u r in g o p e r a t io n s in Which th e y a r e u sed a r e ex c lu d e d from t h e EPA A s b e s to s E m is s io n s S ta n d a r d .
On J u r y 1 , 1 9 7 4 , t h e US D epartm en t o f th e I n t e r i o r (MESA) p u b lish ed an a sb e sto s standard fo r m eta l and n o n -m e ta llic op en p i t m in e s . In t h i s , s ta n d a r d , MESA d i s t i n g u i s h e d betw een "treroolite asb estos" and "non-asbestiform tr em o lite ."
T r e m o lite a s b e s t o s , under MESA's s ta n d a r d , i s c o v e r e d by a fiv e fib e r per cc standard, whereas non-asbestiform trem o lite i s c o v e r e d by t h e ACGIH TLV f o r t r e m o l i t e , 5 m i l l i o n p a r t i c l e s p e r c u b ic f o o t . MESA, ip. t h e s ta n d a r d , i n d i c a t e d t h a t n o n a sb estifo r m tr e m o lite which occu rs in t a lc d e p o sits i s n ot m entioned in th e d e f in it io n , th e r e fo r e , i t . i s n o t covered . F u r t h e r , MESA p o in t e d o u t t h a t on May 8 , 1 9 7 3 , a p u b l i c symposium was h e ld in W ashington, D .C ., to r e c e iv e d a ta on t a lc d u st hazards in th e m etal and n o n -m eta llic m ining i n d u s t r i e s . A t t h a t tim e , m e d ic a l d a ta b a sed on b o th human and anim al s tu d ie s were p rese n ted , su p p ortin g th e o p in io n th a t t a lc and tale-w ith -ijarem olite are n o t a s hazardous as c h r y s o t ile and o th e r tr u e a s b e s to s m in e r a ls.
I sp ok e t h i s week w ith D r. A u rel Goodwin, C h ief o f H ealth S ta n d a r d s f o r MESA, t o a s c e r t a i n how MESA d i s t i n g u i s h e s _ betw een " trem o lite a sb estos" and "non-asbestiform tr e m o lite ." D r. G oodwin s a i d t h a t MESA h a s n o e x a c t d e f i n i t i o n t h a t makes su ch a d i s t i n c t i o n , b u t in d ic a t e d th a t "a f ib e r m ust look lik e a fib er" ; th a t i s , have an asp ect r a tio o f a t le a s t 5 0 - t o - l or 1 0 0 -t o -l, and n o t m erely a 3 - t o - l a sp e c t r a t io i n a c c o r d a n c e w ith OSHA's d e f i n i t i o n o f a s b e s t o s .
I n a d d i t i o n , MESA a g r e e s .w ith V a n d e r b i l t ' s p o s i t i o n t h a t a d i s t i n c t i o n sh o u ld be made b etw een th o se p a r t i c l e s w hich a r e tr u ly fib e r s and th o se which a re n e e d le -lik e in shape (a c ic u la p a r t i c l e s ) . D r. Goodwin s a id f u r t h e r . t h a t in a l l th e t a l c sam ples th ey have an alyzed , th ey have d ete cte d no a sb e sto s fib e r s . T his ap paren tly supports th e ir con clu sion th a t tr e m o lite , as i t e x is t s in com m ercial t a l c , i s n ot fib r o u s .
D r. Goodwin i s p r e s e n t ly checking t o d eterm in e w h eth er o r n o t MESA h a s exam in ed J-M t a l c . I f n o t , MESA i s a g r e e a b le t o ex a m in in g J-M t a l c t o dejterm ine i f th e t r e m o lit e i t c o n ta in s is or is hot fib rou s.
I
CRM C-MAD-000318
Page 3 7 /1 6 /7 4
L a s t week Bob B acon, A s s is t a n t t o th e P r e s id e n t o f R. T .
V a n d e r b i lt Company, c a l l e d |me t o r e p o r t on a m e e t in g
he had on J u ly 2 , 1974, w ith John S ten d er, A lexander
R e i s , Howard S c h u l t e and Dan Boyd o f OSHA. B acon r e p o r t e d
th a t S ten d er was q u ite sym p ath etic to V a n d erb ilt's p o s itio n
and a s k e d R e i s : "Why a r e y o u h o l d i n g t h e s e p e o p le h o s t a g e ? "
A c c o r d in g t o B a co n , S t e n d e r a l s o t o l d R e is t h a t : "OSHA
sh ou ld : ' t b a se sta n d a rd s' oh th in g s not' proven t o .b e g u ilt y ."
B acon l e f t t h e m e e t in g q u i t e o p t i m i s t i c t h a t OSHA w o u ld
m odify i t s d e f in it io n o f th e term " a sb esto s." Bacon fu r th e r
n o te d t h a t Dan B oyd, C h ie f !of OSHA's O f f ic e o f S ta n d a r d s ,
w i l l v i s i t V a n d e r b i lt ' s t a l c m in e in New York S t a t e on
Ju ly 19.
j
I t i s u n c e r t a i n a t t h i s t im e w h e t h e r o r n o t OSHA w i l l m o d ify i t s p r e s e n t d e f i n i t i o n o f t h e w ord "a s b e s t o s " , i n accordance w ith V a n d e r b ilt's p o s itio n a s was r e c e n tly done b y MESA. H o w ev e r, l a s t w e ek w hen Ed F e n n e r , a s C h airm an o f A IA 's T ech n ica l C om m ittee, m et w ith John O 'N e ill o f OSHA, OnN e i l l r e q u e s t e d t h a t A I A 's C o m m ittee p r e p a r e a new d e fin itio n o f th e term , " asb esto s."
N o t w it h s t a n d i n g t h e r e c e n t a c t i o n t a k e n b y EPA a n d MESA, B i l l R e i t z e and I d o n o t b e l i e v e t h a t OSHA w i l l m o d if y i t s p r e se n t a sb e sto s standard to conform to th e r e c e n tly pro m u lg a te d MESA s t a n d a r d . R e jitz e s p o k e y e s t e r d a y w i t h Howard S c h u lte , Deputy A s s is ta n t S e c r e ta r y fo r O ccu p ation al S a fe ty & H ealth to check th e r e s u lt o f V a n d e r b ilt's m eetin g w ith OSHA. S c h u l t e r e p o r t e d t h a t Dan B oyd an d som eon e fr o m NIOSH in S a lt Lake C ity , w i l l v i s i t V a n d e r b ilt's m ine t h i s week and w i l l ta k e t a lc sam ples to d eterm in e i f th e tr e m o lite p r e se n t i s fib r o u s o r a c ic u la . A ccording to S c h u lte , even i f th e t r e m o l i t e i s fo u n d t o b e n o n - f i b r o u s , OSHA i s n o t p l a n n i n g t o change i t s cu rren t asb estos' standard w ith resp ect to tr e m o lite . H o w ev e r, OSHA w o u ld g r a n t V a n d e r b i l t a v a r i a n c e fr o m t h e OSHA a s b e s t o s s t a n d a r d an d s i m i l a r v a r i a n c e s t o o t h e r t a l c producers whose tr e m o lite co n ten t i s n o n -fib ro u s. However, S ch u lte to ld R eitze no d e c isio n w ith resp ect to V a n d erb ilt's r e q u e s t w i l l b e made u n t il m id -A u gu st a t th e e a r l i e s t . In t h e m e a n tim e , h e c a u t i o n e d t h a t OSHA h a s c i t e d an d w i l l co n tin u e to c i t e t a lc producers and th e ir custom ers fo r v i o l a t i o n s o f OSHA's a s b e s t o s s ta n d a r d .
T h e se r e c e n t d e v e lo p m e n ts r a i s e a q u e s t io n a s t o w h e th e r J-M
sh o u ld b e g in to i n s e r t "warning" la b e ls on i t s com m ercial
t a l c p a c k a g e s . A s I s e e i t !, t h r e e a l t e r n a t i v e c o u r s e s o f a c t i o n
a re a v a ila b le to u s . F irstj, we can go ahead w ith our agreed upon
la b e l. Second, we cou ld sim p ly ca u tio n w ith r e sp e c t to t a lc
dust a t th e p r e s e n t time, until OSHA makes a d e c is io n w ith r e s p e c t
to tr e m o lite . T h ird , we cob id ta k e no a c tio n w h atsoever u n t il
OSHA m ak es a d e c i s i o n .
!
CRMC-MAD-000319
I
I would s u g g e s t we v e r y prom ptly c a l l a m eetin g o f th e J-M p e r s o n n e l in v o lv e d t o r e v ie w th e c u r r e n t s i t u a t i o n and make an in t e r im o r f i n a l d e c i s i o n . I hope t h i s memo w i l l be h e lp fu l as background m a teria l to be read by a l l atten d ees p rio r to th a t m eeting.
C R M G -M A D -000320
Si. tO 'A
fio-n. b . m . F o n n o r
Copies: f i l e & C
Subject: MEETING - 9 : 0 0 A . M . , AUGUST 6 , 1974. DEFINITION OF AN ASBESTOS FIBER - OSHA STANDARD
As you are aw are, th e r g has been c o n s id e r a b le d i- - j e s s io n
c o n c e r n in g th e d e f i n i t i o n o f an a s b e s t o s f i b e r a s p r e s e n t ly
u sed by osilA, p a r t i c u l a r l y in reg a rd t o th e p r o s c r ib e d
aspect r a tio of 3 to 1.
.
ASTM h a s o r g a n iz e d C om m ittee E -3 4 , "Committee on O c c u p a tio n a l
H ealth and S a fety A spects o f M a te r ia ls, P h y sica l and
B io lo g ic a l A g en ts" , There are a number o f subcom m ittees
and ta s k gro u p s w it h in t h is c o m m itte e. One o f t h e s e ta s k
groups is concerned w ith "naturally occurring inorganic
fib ers" .
!
T his task group is p resen tly engaged in w ritin g fo r subm ittal t o Of.'IIA th ro u g h norm al ASTM c h a n n e ls a r e v is e d sta n d a rd f o r o c c u p a t io n a l e x p o su r e tjo a s b e s t o s f i b e r s . One o f th e im portant s e c tio n s being w ritten by th is task group is concerned w ith the d e fin itio n o f asb estos fib e r .
I The nc::L m e e tin g o f th e 1 Task Group on N a tu r a lly O ccu rrin g I n o r g a n ic F ib e r s ta k e s >lace on A uqust 14 and 14 in Canada. I w ou ld v e r y much l i k e to be a b le to su b m it t o th e group a lohns-Manvi 1lo d e f in it io n o f an a s b e s to s f ib e r .
i I)i o r d e r to a c c o m n lis h t h is , I am r e q u e s t in g t h a t you a t t e n d a m e e tin g to d i s c u s s .thp s u b j e c t a t 9 :0 0 A.M. on T u esd ay, A u g u st 6 , in our C o n fe ren ce Room, 4 N o rth .
For background inform ation p rio r to tne m eeting, I en close the follow in g:.
(1) A l e t t e r to F. J . iijalon, J r . , d e s c r ib in g ASTM C om m ittee E -3 4 ,
(2) A d e f in it io n fo r a sb e sto s f ib e r as prepared by a su b se c tio n o f th e t a s k qroup f^>r a f f ir m a t iv e o r n e g a t iv e b a l l o t t i n a by th e group member^.
CRMC-MAD-000268 /
T his l i s t i n g i s ft supplement t c |Document Mo. 5 published as Appcnd'X 6 of the minutes of th e-seco n d mooting o f the Task Group on N atu rally .Occuring In organic F ib e rs o f AS'lT-i Conunittoc E-34-.
1. D e fin itio n s subm itted by Mr 74 Jan 1974-
f ib r e s F ib re s are d efin ed 4s being of a le n g th g re a te r then 5pm and
having o le r.g th /b rc a th r a t i o o f a t l e a s t 3 :1. There i s no upper lim it
fo r the len g th o f the f ib r e d , but n maximum diam eter o f 3pm i s d efined.
Airborne asbestos dust concqntrotiona are expressed in fib e rs per
m illilite r of a ir (f/m l). !
(taken from the A sb o sto sia Research C o u n c il's Technical Mote 1,
paragraph 2.1)
;
asbestos -- a c ic u la r silic a te ) m ineral, with a s tru c tu re based on silic o n
oxygon te tr a h e d r a , composed ,of c r y s ta ls in a predom inantly p a r a lle l
o r ie n ta tio n , and d is tin g u is h e d by i t s a b i l i t y to s p l i t in d e f in ite ly
4 jrora i t s j.'iacrv fwi.u lu in d ivid u al f le x ib le f i b r i l s haim g
to breath ra tio of 3 to 1 and cross sectio n al dimensions approaching
0.01 pm.
j
7., D e fin itio n s subm itted by Mr.; G. Gagnon, Lake A sbsotos or Quebec L im ited,
23 Jan 197/.:
j
fib r e - any m a te r ia l in a fprm such th a t i t haa a minimum r a t io o f le n g th to overage maximum tra n sv erse dim ensions o f 10 to 1.
asb esto s f ib r e - s i l i c a t e m ineral, with a stru ctu r e based upon s i l i c o n oxygen te tr a h e d r a , t h a t f i t si tho d e f in itio n o f a f ib r e and i s composed Of s in g le c r y s ta ls in predom inantly p a r a lle l o r ie n ta tio n . Common usage a lso
designates a c o lle c t iv it y o f aGbestos fib r e s as asb estos f ib r e s .
3 . D e fin itio n s sub m itted by DrJ M. Grimard, C h ief, Heath E ffe c ts D iv isio n ,
Environm ental h e a lth D ire a to ira te , Department o r N ational H ealtti end
Welfare of Canaoa,
i
l.h.ro - ( d e f in itio n ns nppllpd to m in e ra ls): any m a te ria l uhich by m icros copy p re se n ts tho fo llo w in g O p tical c h a r a c te r is tic s : a f ilif o r m o r bundle of f ilif o r m bodios having a len g th to diam otor r a t i o o f a t l e a s t 3:1
a sb e sto s fib e r - a c ic u la r s i l i c a t o m in eral, with a s tru c tu re based upon silicon-oxygen te tra h e d ra , th a t f i t s the d e fin itio n of a f ib e r , and i s composed o f s in g le c r y s t a l s in predom inantly p a r a lle l o r ie n ta tio n .
r,-?-. Tr/rw7x>-y*p:r
CRMC-MAD-000270
f
/f . D efin itio n :) subm itted by Mr. A. M. Harvey, Manager, Legal and Products
A p p lic a tio n , 1U T. V an d erb ilt Company, I n c ,, k Jon 1'97A:
m iner! r i i y r - any form o f Miner si c h aracterized by p ro p o rtio n of f l e x i b i l i t y and .length to width r a t i o of a t le a s t 100, and composed of d e fin ite c ry sta l u n it p e lls oriented with respect to a sp ecific axis.
I an t e n to r. - J . a gen eric tp m f e r . n'anbor o f hydrated s i l i e r t e m inerals th a t, v:iv_'n crushed or p ro cessed , sepnrnto in to f le x ib le f ib e r s made up o f f i b r i l s . ' Tncue m in erals in clu d e cihrycotile, c r o c id o lite , am ositc, " a n th o p h y llitc a s b e sto s, tre m o lite asb e sto s and e c tin o litc a sb e sto s,
5- D efini lien:: sub. tto d by i-jr. R. B. S te e le , Labora ary f vices E ngineer,
iVoducl Research and Development Department, Asbestos C orporation Lim ited,
5 March 1cy7/:
i
F i b r i l - I s a polym eric form o f s o lid whoso component re p e n tin g sub-aiits
'
extend along a sin g le ma.jpr a x is , and which can n o t be subdivided along
th is longitudinal axis without destroying the in te g rity of the stru ctu re.
Fib e r - I s a bundle of f i b r i l s in p a r a lle l alignm ent, the composite
p o sse ssin g a maximum d iam eter of ICO m icrons, and a minimum a sp e c t r a tio
of 20.
!
.
Asbe s to s - I s g e n e ric tefrra f o r rt number o f c i l i c a t e m in e ra ls , th e morphology c f vhcce ccapchest p a r t i c l e s f i t s The d e f in itio n o f a f ib e r .
A sbestos F ile r - I s a f ib p r belonging to one of the s ix types o f asb esto s m inerals: cry so tilc, c ro cid o lito , anosite, onthophyllite asbestos, trem olite a sb e sto s, and o c tir.o lite A sbestos.
I
6, D e fin itio n ;: subm itted by Mr. A. A. Harvey, Manager, Legal and Products A p p lic a tio n , R, T. V a n d e rb ilt Company, I n c ., 30 Jan 197A; D e fin itio n s tak en from pages 26, 27 174. end 175 of th e 1973 ASTH G lossary: R efor to page 3
'
.
7. R efer to Appendix 5 and 6 p f the m inutes of the th ir d m eeting o f the Tack Group on N a tu ra lly Oepuring In o rg a n ic F ib e rs.
APPENDIX I
ATTENDANO.
Thj.rd meetin," of the Tack Group on N a tu ra lly Occuring In o rganic F ib e rs , Phi lacicdphia, i'e . 18 end 19 A pril 197A
W. il. Ashton M. Co'ssottc
L . J-l. Fenner G. J . Foy A. li. Harvey S. Holmes
H. H. Kaufman A. 1-1. Kooiman
J . F. Her to n ik
R . M cCarthy
.P,
11
W.
il.
McDaniel
Here ne n s
P. V. P e in a r, H.D.
C. S , Thompson A. A. Winer
j - Johnson & Johnson Co,
- Recording Secretory -
'
Quebec A sbestos Mining- A ssociation
j- V ico- Chairman, Johns-Manvj.:
Department o f Natural, le e . 'S o f Quebec
j - H. T. V a n d e rb ilt Co.
jS ecretary of the A sto sto sis P.ecearch Council
T. B.A. I n d u s tr ia l P roducts Lim ited
j~ GAF C orporation - H epresentotive o f the E d ito ria l Subcommittee
i- Jiotor Vehicle M anufacturers1 A ssociation
- MESA, Department o f the I n t e r i o r Washington
j D.C.
In tern a tio n a l Talc
j- Union Carbide C orporation
j- Asbestos Information A sscciation/H orth
! America
j - In s titu te of Occupational and Environmental
I Health
j - H. T. V a n d e rb ilt Company.
|- Chairman, Deportment o f Energy, Mines and
i Resources o f Canada
Dr. J . VI. Axclson
Dr. h . Berry R. A. Bromley-Haore
H. R. Cooling H. A. Esche .-.bach
P. A. F iltc a u G. Gagnon
G. W. Gibbs
Dr. M. Grjmard
HAILING LIST
j- Jobns-M anvillc Research and Development
I Center j - Deportment o f M aterials Chemistry
~ C h ry so tilo C orporation o f A u s tra lia
; Pty. Ltd. '
Asbestos Corporation Limited
- I n d u s tr ia l H y g ien ist
j W. II. Grace c< Co.
j- Quebec A sbestos Mining A ssociation
~ A s s is ta n t M ill S up erin ten d en t
I Lake Asbestos o f Quebec Lim ited
McGill U niversity ' I Department o f Epidemiology end Health
r Department o f N ational Health and Vlclfaro
j o f Canada
C ^fC -M A D -000272
N a tu r a lly , we sh o u ld f i r s t c a r e f u lly r e v ie w S te n d e r 's
l e t t e r a s soon as we r e c e iv e a cop y. I t w ould a ls o be
........ toy r e c o m m e n d a tio n t h a t p r i o r t o o u r i n s t i t u t i o n o f
a s b e s to s w arning la b e ls op t a l c , we sh o u ld p r e se n t
V a n d erb ilt w ith th e r e s u lts o f our a n a ly sis, o f th e ir
&
. t a l c and urge them t o c o n s id e r a p p ly in g a. s im ila r la b e l
f
I n v ie w o f t h e a b o v e d e v e l o p m e n t s , .1 s e e n o r e a s o n f o r
u s t o s c h e d u l e a s p e c i a l m e e t i n g w i t h OSHA a s w a s d i s c u s s e d
a t th J u ly 24 t a l c la b e lin g m e etin g .
.
V v R. P . C a r te r
CRMC-MAD-000310 rt?srr
JohnS'Manville
F i
, '
' / -ai
InternaiCorrespSrS3enc Il
S9PS
j. E. M. Fenner ` R. P. Carter
Dote: August 28, 1974
From. G. 1. Swallow
.
'
I
F .1. S n ln n . d r .
Co?ic: (.f. B. Reitze
i
File & Chron
Subject- CONVERSATION WITH HOWARD J. SCHULTE/OSHA, AND RAY McCLURE/OSHA
REFERENCE: JOHN STENOER'S LETTER OF AUGUST 6, 1974, TO HR. II. 8. VANDERBILT, R.T. VANDERBILT CO., INC.
in response to .your request, I called Howard Schulte and discussed with him the subject l e t t e r . Hp was obviously e n tire ly familiar with i t .
Hr. Schulte -stated that the whole interpretation of the l e t te r hinges upon the definition of "asbestiform" and "non-asbestiform".
In response to my question! as to what was the current definition of as-
bestiform, or differentiation between asbestiform .and non-asbestiform,
he stated that the definition is the same as oreviously used in conjunc
tion with the asbestos rem/Iations, specifically that the aspect ratio
bo 3*1
qnfj Mjat th? Isnnfcii bo n^?ntor tti?o ? frieron?. **
amplified his definition by saying that i f a talc samde were examined
under a microscope and more than 5 a rtifa c ts /c c were counted, which f i t
this definition, i t would bo termed a violation of the OSHA regulations.
When I pressed him concerning thn difference between a rtifa c ts and tremo-
l i t c , he stated t h a t ,"Me cnjnnot take tremolfte from the standard at this
time." He further stated that OSHA technicians have never seen a r t i - .
facts which f i t the above definition which they consider to be non-tremo
litic.
.
He stated that. NIOSH is currently studying the possibility that there do e x is t non-tremol tic "slivehs" which should be differentiated from the tremoliti.c fibers and which, because they are (perhaps) not a health hazard, should not he counted when evaluating a talc sample. However,
the results of this study aye one to too years off.
In answer to my query, he stated that the Vanderbilt Company argued the
above point, namely that such "slivers" do exist and that i t is inac
curate and unfair to include them in any fiber counts associated with
t a l c sampling. He went on to say that despite Vanderbilt's arguments,
OSHA was not going along wifch this concept, unless and until the NIOSH
studymentioned above confirmed i t .
As our conversation drew to a close, Mr. Schulte suggested that since I had asked s many detailed and technical questions, i t would be well for
me to talk to Ray McClure. He told me that he would have Ray call me
1
; U
1
CRMC-MAD-000275 :i "flfcT
V.
Z. H. Fornor/F:. P. Carter
August 2, 1974
' Page Two
.
l a t e r this morning, U-iy McClure called and referred to my conversation with Howard Schulte.
Me started by explaining that the Vanderbilt mining operations are un der the jurisdiction of MESA, not OSHA. Tfieir concern with the OSHA " regulations is because of their customers who have read the asbestos . regulations and are worried about beino cited in their plant operations because of possible t r e n d i ti c content in the talc.
Mr, McClure said that Jolhn Stender's l e t t e r of August 6, 1974, was an_ attempt to give some rel ie f for th is situation, but doubted that i t did
so very effectively.
He stated that he was presently urging certain modifications to the standard as presently written. His recommendations are to NIOSH, and must be approved by NIOSH before they can be seriously considered or promulgated. In answer to my question as to what specifically he was recommending, he cautioned me to realize that these were wholly tenta tiv e and stated that they were:
1.' Revise the aspect ratio in the fiber definition (as associated with talc) from 3:1 to 5:1. He noted that such a recommendation would he Contingent upon lIOSR'opinion regarding the health aspect.
Do not count any ibers whose diameter is greater than 5 microns.
Require that the nricrosconist attempt to make positive id e n tif i cation of fibers as be ing asbestos particularly by means of observ-
ing the fib e r end configuration.
lie sta te d that the Salt 1.ake City'laboratory consists chiefly of OSHA
people, now, and that the microscopists already attempt to differen-
t i a t e between true trnmal i t i c fibers and other non-fibmis a rtifa c ts
which'would l)o classifie , as fibers i f judged only by aspect ratio and
length. (Please note the discrepancy between this note and Howard
Schulte's)
]
.
Mr. McClure stated that i f the above changes are successfully promul gated, the standard will probably require sampling by the "asbestos technique" and by impinuolr. -.'bother or not a given station is over TIV w ill be judged by whidte.vbr criterio n is s t r i c t e r . OSHA is also consi
dering requiring high voljume a i r samples to permit chemical or minera lgica! analysis of the airborne dust'.
yG. L. Swallow GLS/jmb
CRM C-M A D-000276
Johns-Manville
Internal Correspondence
F . J . S olon , J r. ^1
from: r . p . C a r t e r
Copte*: f i l e & C
D1*! O c t . 4 , 1 9 7 4 ,
Subfoet: TREMOLITIC TALC
Bob B a co n c a l l e d me t h i s a f t e r n o o n t o a d v i s e me h e h ad r e c e i v e d a t e le p h o n e c a l l from Dan B oyd. Boyd i n d i c a t e d th a t he had been d ir e c te d by John Stender to prepare a le t t e r to R. T. V a n d erb ilt fo r S ten d er*s sig n a tu r e , a d v isin g V a n d erb ilt th a t th ey can c e r tify to th e ir c u s t o m e r s t h a t V a n d e r b i l t * s t a l c (NYTAL) d o e s n o t c o n t a i n a sb e sto s, p rovid ed th e t a lc o re does n ot co n ta in fib e r s in R. T. V a n d e r b ilt's judgem ent. Boyd b e lie v e s th a t th e le t t e r w ill be sign ed e a r ly n ext week.
Boyd in d ic a te d to Bacon th a t t h i s d e c is io n was b a sed on g u id a n c e fr o m J o n May a t NIOSH, w ho a d v i s e d OSHA t h a t
th e ev id en ce cu rren tly i s in c o n c lu siv e as to w hether treru o lite i s ca rcin o g en ic.- " T h erefore, V a n d erb ilt sh ould b e g r a n t e d som e r e l i e f u n t i l NIOSH c o m p le t e s i t s in v e stig a tio n o f tr e m o litic ta lc .
As soon as t h is l e t t e r i s sig n e d by S ten d er, Boyd agreed t o c a l l B acon and rea d th e c o n te n t s o f idle l e t t e r t o him . Bob B a c o n , i n t u r n , h a s a g r e e d t o c a l l me a s s o o n a s h e h ea rs from Boyd and w i l l im m ed iately forw ard a cop y o f th e le tte r to us.
I f w h a t Bob B a co n h a s r e p o r t e d i s c o r r e c t , I am a t a l o s s t o u n d e r sta n d OSHA's r a t i o n a l e f o r su c h a c t i o n . I n t h e
p a s t , OSHA h a s n o t h e s i t a t e d t o r e g u l a t e a s u b s t a n c e even though th er e was l i t t l e , i f any, evid en ce to e s ta b lis h t h a t a p a r t i c u l a r s u b s t a n c e w a s h a r m f u l t o man a t c e r t a i n exposure le v e ls . I f such a le t t e r is in fa c t issu e d by S t e n d e r , t h e n , i n e f f e c t OSHA w o u ld b e h o l d i n g ir i a b e y a n c e t h e a p p l i c a t io n o f t h e a s b e s t o s d e f i n i t i o n in OSHA's a sb e sto s stan d ard w ith r e sp e c t to tr e m o lite .
I a d v ise d Bob Bacon t h a t we w ere s t i l l p la n n in g t o commence
th e in s e r tio n o f w arning la b e ls on a l l com m ercial t a l c
on o r ab ou t November 1 , and w ould n o t r e c o n sid e r t h is
d e c is io n u n t il su ch tim e a s we had an o p p o r tu n ity to
review S ten d er's fo r th c o m in ^ ^ ^ jte g ^
,
C R M C -M A D -0 0 0 3 11
F. J . S o lon, Jr. Page 2 O ct. 4 , 1974 In th e e v e n t we sh ou ld d ecid e t o sch ed u le a m eetin g w ith Howard s h u l t e , Dan Boyd and A le x a n d e r R e is , i t m ig h t b e a d v i s a b l e t o f i r s t m e e t w i t h J o n May a t NIOSH t o
ascertain where t h e y s ta n d i n t h e i r s t u d y o f t r e m o l i t i c
t a l c and le a r n fir s t -h a n d w hat h is recom m endation was to OSHA w i t h r e s p e c t t o V a n d e r b i l t ' s r e q u e s t T h is b a ck g ro u n d may b e b e n e f ic ia l to us a t a m eetin g w ith S h u lte , Boyd and R eis.
R. P. C arter R P C /em r
C RM C-M A D -000312
to: V. E. M olJcodcff From: K, s , L am ar
^ `October l i 1 9 7 4
Copie*: s e e end o f c o r r e sp o n d e n c e
Subject, your MEMO OP OCTOBER 9, 1974 OPTICAL AND TEM COUNTING OF ASBESTOS MINERALS IN ASBESTINE 3X, ASBESTINE 325., NYTAL 200* AND NYTAL 400 AS CURRENTLY PRODUCED BY R. T . VANDERBILT CO.
Thank you Vlad fo r your v e r y f in e rep ort covering your
m ic r o s c o p ic e x a m in a tio n o f t h e s e sam p les. Your d a ta
co n firm a n a ly s e s we. h ave had m ade.oh th e se same sam ples
by >J. P. McGourty u s i n g X -r a y d i f f r a c t i o n te c h n iq u e s
(R eport No. 414-T -33) and by X. Jaunarajs u sin g d iff e r e n
t i a l therm al a n a ly sis - p rim arily for the d etection of
serp en tin e m ineral.
'
T h ese p r e s e n t sa m p les a r e .1r e a l l y no d i f f e r e n t from p r e v io u s sa m p les o f N y ta l and A s b e s t in e th a t I: have .exam ined p e iio d io a lly -o v e r th e .y e a r .s.. They,-ali contain very sub
s t a n t i a l amounts o f both^tr e m o lite and c h r y s o tile and in tyro.cases -su b sta n tia l amounts o f a third asb estos m in eral, an th op h yllito.
I n _n u m e r o u s ;.d is c u s s io n B >X -.iaiye had w ith R. T. V a n d e r b ilt
p e o p l e , t h e y r;hayei.:r e h j d i ^ ^ & i - f e t e d . t o h a v in g t r e m o l i t e
(*'w h ic h i s n o t ' a n * jB t is^ M h e r a l.-a n d . i s n o t f i b r o u s " ) ,
b u t th e y h ave never&alLib'td. t o th e p r e se n c e o f e it h e r
c h r y s o t il e o r a n th j> h l-it. They do adm it ..that y e a r s .a g o ,
when th e y were d e lib e r a te ly m ining ce r ta in s e c tio n s o f - t h e ir
d e p o s i t s f o x - f i b e r , some;, o f t h e i r ..p r o d u c ts d id c o n t a i n .....
c h r y s o t i l e . . T h isdpro,du ct,; JNibi'hii^wajSis o ld a s a d ir e c t
rep la cem en t fo r a sb e sto s, in^theAmanufaature o f v in y l t i l e .
I ' bVe'fe>f<u&ined--4W-HcHil<^."''-ih 1 ^ i`^ t ' ' ' a n d . i t was i n f a c t
a lm o s t e n t i r e l y c h r y s o t i l e . "Moulden" i s no lo n g e r b e in g
m a d e, b u t a l l o f t h e . I n t e r n a t i o n a l T a lc Company and
,
R. T . V a n d e r b i lt C o m p a n y -ta lc vp r o d u c ts a lw a y s h a v e and
c o n t i n u e t o c o n t a i n c h r y s o t i l e a s a- s i g n i f i c a n t m in e r a l
com ponent (in a d d itio n t o tr e m o lite and a n t h o p h y llit e ) .
c b m c -M a d - 177
V. E. wolkodoff
-2
October 11, 1974
I t i s ap p aren t th a t th e R. T. V an d erb ilt p r e s e n ta tio n s to
OSHA, NIOSH, FDA/ MESA, e t c . a r e b a sed on so m e th in g l e s s
than th e tr u th . 1 find' i t d if f ic u lt to b e lie v e th a t they
c o u ld b e s o g r o s s l y m isin fo rm ed a s t o what t h e ir m a t e r ia ls
rea lly are.
-
How t h i s in f o r m a t io n i s u l t i m a t e l y u sed i s so m e th in g t h a t
w i l l have to . b e d e cid ed a t h ig h e r l e v e l s w ith in J-M. H ow ever, i t i s my b e l i e f t h a t R. T. V a n d e r b ilt , w ith a con tin u an ce o f th e ir p resen t m ethods, does n oth in g but c o n fu s e th e i s s u e among th e t a l c p rod ucers and. w ith th e v a r io u s F ed era l' a g e n c ie s in v o lv e d . Any p r o p e r ly inform ed
p erso n would know th a t th e y a r e wrong.
R. s . Lamar
kgm
OC5
R. P. C arter
. 4N
E. M. F e n n e r .
4N
P. K otin
4N
W. B. R e i t z e
4N
F. J . S olon , Jr.
4M
G. L. S w a llo w
. 4M
A . C. F . F ir ik b in e r , I I I 5W
J . A. McKinney
5W
H. R. K eef
2W
P. A. M artinson
2W
C. J . S u lew sk i
2W
W. l . V an D erbeek
2S
R. G. R ied e
2S
F ile 414-C R. T. V an d erb ilt
F. L. Pundsack
W. C. S t r e i b J . P. L einew eber
S. S p ell A. J . McArthur
C R M C -M A D -000478
>j, i-'orAl* 7, ''i. Kod^J*.'* - iiViU
*/l J' 1,;*; i/Uu lot. w;i iwVcii'JC
Vivl
AilHA Plii-'liACTIOW PATTBIJIS Of ASBESTOS KIKHIAI.S l'W Kith:
M.u.y::.-::, ; HoouOi-sj hv l i . v . v /.iip aiB ir/? cokfam
j 't m r r<-< a v a l , J u'iy a b le to e o n tru e L tim e on th e P h i l i p s 200
;..i.:;-u:;eopi> n l be river U .'^ v n r c .'i I n s t i t u t e t o co n fin e. l<y
.civil iiW i illl'X V uctioi. p a l t e r m i, th e p re s e n c e o f c h r y B o l l l e ,
:...;.;,yi 11(...- anil l.ivn.i.1 il.v in a l l Uu.- il. T. VaridorbU 1. ta l o n
..
a] : ..if/. .,yl.nl h O u , A:;bi;:;U'nv : / , and Anii**iil i no ?<"//>
i .
i v.'i c .y
o f l/c tn b v /' 0 , iVY', wi,ioil i;. b.v.vii
1.. ../.I iy on j''l vi `{i uj <:u } in.ilJiod.s mil] lilt.' li.H; O] o u r HCA i: i 1'1 1m ;.
i'(<..>:pv:i L<> c o n firm e h r y s o t i l o ) . T t won f e l l t h u l a e le c le u
;. it t flV n o .i uii p .itt.r npi o f tl.v nub on bob iiir.oriu.ii u siiip th e
I i | >:. i\j<> vnuiUl lend p o u itx v e X denti i'i c a ti o n - a ty p e o f
!y.. c:i `.it, eh l'.'i.MiOL lie lioni: on o u r HCA iviiJ-3B m odel.
l <; p o . j n o t o n ly i d e n t i f i e s n an.pl.:s> n u t a l t o i d e n t i f i e r .
`i'ic-i p r i n t a n d 'n e le c tc d a r e a d i f f r a c t i o n p a t t e r n s o i th e p r i n t s a t t a c h e d t o t h i s l e t t e r . The TEM p l a t e s a r e alvm yc on f i l e , 'i'iie m ic ro sc o p e c o n s t a n t (L A ) w<xs d e r iv e d h y n v e r u f i ; 21. s u c r o s e o p e c o n s ta n t v u lu c s b a s e d on l i n e s o f All and F a , The
m icroscope co nstant is :
I, A = h .lijl A
'i'o c a l c u l a t e u -s p u c in i', in A ngstrom u n i t s , th e f o l l o w i n g fo rm u la
f/k>J *
.
J. A .?/> on. . . n jiot p a ii' ra d iu s ' (cm)
(aii-yiicitilir, n r.th O p h y lJito , and tr e n .o litc were a i l found in c a c h e .,
til.: fm ir ii. V, V a n d e rb ilt t a l c Kiuopier.. p a r t i c u l a r (lata f o r i s d .
i.uii.plc a rc found in 'i'UilL- iiO. 1 UT.U a p p r o p r ia t e a tta c h e d elc.'-'-.r o t
d iffra c tio n patterns -
'
'l . ltlrf/'.:u j -
'nw**!HVsp
!/Si Johns-ManviHe
To: R .P . C arter - 4N
From: r . A . M a r t i n s o n
Copies:
Sublect: LABELLING DESERTALC PRODUCTS
Internal Correspondence
Dale: October 25 197^
At th e FSM D iv isio n s t a f f m eeting l a s t week, th ere appeared to
be g en era l consensus th a t J-M should approach R .T . V anderbilt
p eop le and o u tlin e , in some d e ta il why we are tak in g the p o s itio n
to la b e l our ta lc products.
*
I t i s th e f e e lin g th a t J-M should n ot take th e p o s it io n o f p o lic in g such m atters and c e r ta in ly not su ggest to V anderbilt th a t they should lab el th eir products.
Perhaps, th is p oin t can he put across by im p lica tio n . .
Purpose of th is le tte r is 't o suggest th at you d iscuss the matter v i t h R .S . Lamar. I b e lie v e you gentlem en can b e s t r e s o lv e a t what l e v e l th e fo llo w up ahould be made, i . e . , Research or your le v e l which e s s e n t i a l l y -would be l e g a l .
I am su re th a t you are aware th a t Dick Lamar i s acquainted w ith Mr. Bacon and '`Slim" Thompson o f V an d erb ilt,
P le a se l e t me know what i s determ ined a ft e r your d is c u s s io n w ith Mr. Lamar.
v. noun F .J . Solon W.B. R e itz e A.C.F. Finkbiner H.R. K eefe D
C
CRA/C-MAD.00Q3J5
lisi Johns-Manville
Internal Correspondence
lb: F . J . S o lo n , J r .
0*t*: O c t . 3 1 , 1974
From: it. P . C a r te r Copt*: F i l e & C
Subject: TELEPHONE CONVERSATION WITH BOB BACON
Bob B acon, A s s is ta n t t o th e P r e s id e n t, R. T. V a n d e r b ilt C o .,
c a l l e d me t h i s m ornin g t o a d v is e t h a t o u r t a l c l a b e l i n g
d e c isio n i s ca u sin g a "b ig stin k " . V a n d erb ilt's t a lc
c u s to m e r s a r e v e r y c o n c e r n e d a s t o why J-M h a s d e c id e d t o
commence in s e r t in g a s b e s to s c a u tio n la b e ls on a l l p a ck a g es
o f ta lc .
.
R. T . V an d erb ilt Co. i s o f th e o p in io n th a t i t i s
J o h n s-M a n v ille's in te n tio n to h u rt th e ir company.
'
Bob Bacon req u ested th a t I b r in g t h is m atter to th e
h i g h e s t l e v e l o f m anagem ent w it h in J-M and i n d i c a t e t h a t
V a n d erb ilt is "very, very u pset" w ith our la b e lin g d e c is io n ,
w h ich th e y f e e l w i l l r e s u l t in " ir r e p a r a b le damage" t o
th em . Bob B acon i n d i c a t e d t h a t h e i s g o in g t o r e q u e s t Hugh
V a n d erb ilt to p e r so n a lly c a l l a S en io r O ffic e r a t Joh n s-M an ville '
to v o ice th e ir concern.
I t h a s b e e n o b v io u s f o r som e t i m e fr o m my c o n v e r s a t i o n s w i t h
' Bob Bacon th a t V a n d e r b ilt i s v e r y concerned ab o u t ou r t a l c
la b e lin g d e c is io n . W ithout a ttem p tin g to c h a r a c te r iz e th e
m o tiv a tin g fa c to r s b eh in d Bob B acon ' s freq u en t te le p h o n e
c o n v e r s a t io n s t o m e, t h e i r c o n c e r n may v e r y w e l l b e b a se d
on a d is t in c t d iffe r e n c e betw een th e ir "corporate con scien ce"
and o u r s. C e r ta in ly , ou r d e c is io n in no way r e f l e c t s any
in t e n tio n on J-M 's p a r t t o h u r t o r d e str o y V a n d e r b ilt, w hich
i s V a n d erb ilt's cu rren t f e e lin g . I t is -V a n d e r b ilt's o p in ion
th a t b ased on John S te n d e r 's l e t t e r o f O ctober 9 , 1 9 7 4 , to
Hugh V a n d e r b ilt, t h e i r t a l c d o es n o t c o n ta in a s b e s tifo r m
m in era ls such as fib ro u s tr e m o lite . Perhaps th a t i s tr u e ,
and i t i s even p o ssib le th a t our ta lc does n o t co n ta in
a sb estifo r m m in erals b ased on th e d e fin itio n co n ta in ed in
S te n d e r 's le t t e r . B a s ic a lly , V an d erb ilt is r e q u e stin g ,
i f n o t dem anding, th a t J-M r e v e r s e i t s t a l c la b e l in g d e c is io r
based on Stender's le t t e r .
'
.
C E M C -M A D -000313
As you w i l l r e c a l l , I recommended s e v e r a l w eeks ago t h a t we prom ptly tak e th e fo llo w in g a c tio n s in th e seq u en ce l i s t e d b elow :
) Reconvene a m eetin g o f th e t a lc la b e lin g group w hich met ' e a r l y t h i s p a s t Summer t o r e v ie w R&D's a n a l y s e s o f
V a n d e r b ilt 's N y ta l and t o d e te r m in e J-M p o l i c y an d a c t io n
in resp on se to S ten d er's O ctober 9 le t t e r .
F. J. Solon, J r. Page 2 O ct. 31, 1974
(2} Arrange a m eetin g in Denver betw een c e r ta in R. T. V a n d erb ilt p e r s o n n e l and a p p r o p r ia te i n d i v i d u a l s from R&D t o r e v ie w our a n a ly ses o f N ytal and to inform V anderbilt o f f i c ia l ly a s t o J-M p o l i c y and co n tem p la ted a c t io n s on t h i s m a tte r .
(3 ) M eet w it h Jo n May and p e r h a p s o t h e r NISH p e r s o n n e l t o review th e d e t a ils o f th e ir stu dy o f tr e m o litic t a lc and t h e i r r e co m m en d a tio n s t o OSHA, w h ic h .1 h a v e b e e n t o l d
` . were in corp orated in S ten d er's le t t e r . (4 ) A rran ge f o r a m e e t in g w it h OSHA, i n c l u d i n g A le x a n d e r R e i s ,
Dan Boyd and Howard S c h u l t e ,t o d i s c u s s th e t a l c l a b e l i n g s itu a tio n , and perhaps p o in t ou t th e error in S ten d er's d e fin itio n o f " fib rou s,, a sb estifo rm m inerals". I b e lie v e t h is m a tter w arrants our im m ediate a t te n t io n .
R. P. C arter RPC/emr
From: Paul K otin, M.D., 4N
Copttu Sublet:
F. J . Solon, Jr. . R. Carter
TALC LABELING
I
j
NOV 8 J974
i
1t
i
*.
\ \
*W. R. Goodwin, 5W
L . Pundsack, RsD
F. H. May, J r . , 5W
C. J . S u le w sk i, 2W
J . A. McKinney, 5W
W. L. VanDerbeek, 2S
1
We have been informed by Mr. 'Robert Bacon, A ssista n t to
i
th e P resid en t o f R. T. V anderbilt Company (a major t a lc com petitor) th at J-M's d ecisio n to in se r t asbestos
caution la b els on a l l ta lc shipments w ill r e su lt in "irreparable damage" to V an d erb ilt. Mr. BaeOn requested
that th is matter be brought to the a tten tio n o f the
h ig h e s t l e v e l - o f management, and' he s ta te d th a t he was_
a sk in g Mr. Hugh V a n d erb ilt, P resid en t o f R. T. V a n d erb ilt,
t o c a l l a se n io r o f f i c e r a t J - 'I to v o ic e th e ir concern
i and t h e ir b e l i e f th a t i t i s J-M 's in te n tio n t o hurt th e ir
! company.
'
The purpose o f t h i s memorandum i s to a le r t you to the
!
s it u a t io n in th e even t you are contacted by Mr. V an d erb ilt.
!
OthuartdJe-cMis'iso nt atloc claobnetal int as l cfibwraosu bs aasesdb eosntoos uarndc oinnv incotiownay ii
r e f l e c t s any in te n tio n to hurt o r d estro y the V anderbilt
Company, i f you would l i k e a d d itio n a l d e t a ils on t h is m atter, p le a se c a l l me.
F. J. Solon, Jr.
o**! November 2 6 , 1974
Fnm b . M. F enner
c1*" P . K o tin , M. d . W. B. R e itz
8ub)e<: OSHA Memorandum-- A a b ea to s
R. S . Lamer r e c o iv e 'd ^ a lp h o n e^ ca ll- today. ,roa.' R ob ert Bacon
o f R. 'T. V an d^ rbi'lt ;C o`^. .^'.-v;Mr'..;Baconfeealled Mr. Lamar
when h e was u n a b le -tO'Scbi
R. P, Cartsr .
Mr. Bacon w is h e d t o in fo rm -J o h n s-M a n v ilie t h a t h e had
r e c e iv e d a copy of..^OSH^^'^l^ineniorandum con cern in g a p o licy change I n /iK ek ^ if^ & ^ i& b n -o f the asbestos
standard.
Mr. Bacon a g reed - to^seh'd^Mr, Lamar a copy o f t h e memorandum and read to him o v er the. phone i t s m a jo r.p o in ts. These points are:
1. She O S H A H aicros^tiisti - only-;
F ibeiifralS L ,,, ' e n d s . Tr&md-ii|^#3;S1S:
in stru cted to count
. ^ 3 |h ^ e 'i r'frayed liv e r .
In addULtio*t`.i ^ c 6 ^ t ii^ i^ ^ S ^ e 3 ^ t it % t a w e t th e above d e fin itio n ^ ,1di^w 3ilii^ftg>Si2e.diiiiiit'ation w ill
a p p ly .- Ah os#e:o t^ iS ti'o ?-'or%'to -1. . A - f i b e r d ia m e te r n o t o v e r 3 miCronS/.-and -a"' f i b e r le n g t h n o t o v e r 30
m icrons.
B. M. t e n n e r
n r?:
&/Lsl Johis-M anville Products Corporation
Filtfofion ft Mineral Division Greenwood Plaza Denver Colorado 80? 17 <303)770 1000
A p ril 18, 1975
<c?75
Mr. H. B. V a n d e r b ilt , P r e s id e n t
R. T. V a n d e r b ilt Company, I n c .
30 W in fie ld S tr e e t
N o rw a lk , CT 06855
`
Dear Mr. V a n d e r b ilt:
. You r ,c o u r t e s y i n m e e tin g w ith u s e a r l i e r t h i s w eek i s
\
i a t e d . We f e l t .th a t i t was im p o r ta n t.
v. f o r y o u t o understand' o u r .. p o sitio n w it h - r e s p e c t t o
\ t a l c l a b e l i n g and th e v a rio u s- a c t io n s we a r e 'c u r r e n t ly
tak in g in the. market p la ce in t h is regard. '
. .
Our in t e n t m sh a r in g w ith ypu our a n a ly t ic a l d a ta on
yo u r p r o d u c ts i s an a tte m p t t o 'b e h e lp f u l and i s m ost
c e r t a i n l y f r i e n d l y , xn. t h i s 'r e g a r d , i f we.. :can i n any
way b e o f a s s is ta n c e to your t'ech h ica l p e o p le through
an e x c h a n g e o f in fo r m a tio n a n d ssa m p les .we w ou ld b e g la d
t o do s o . I f Dr. Thompson w ould ;.care t o m eet, w ith our
R e s e a r c h -p e o p le 'to r e v ie w n a u r -fin d in g s we. w ould b e
p l e a s e d , t o a rr a n g e t h i s !f o r . h im . T h is k in d o f t e c h n i
c a l e x ch a n g e would b e h elp fu l-..'to b o th c o m p a n ie s .'-
F o llo w in g our m eeting in Norwalk, I have-review ed w ith Dr. P aul X otxn,. M edical D irector' fo r T ohns-M anviile C o rp ., th e v a rio u s p o in ts we d isc u sse d . H eh as- in d i c a te d th a t i f 'you so d e s ir e he- would g la d ly , m eet w ith you and v a r io u s members., o f ' y o u r - s t a f f t o d e s c r ib e t h e
m edical a sp ects of the situ a tio n . .
W ill y o u p l e a s e co n v ey my th a n k s t o th e o t h e r members o f you r group who a tte n d e d our m eetin g on A p r il 1 6 .
S in c e r e ly ,.
vl
R. S . Lamar, Manager
. F i l t r a t i o n arid M in e r a ls D i v i s i o n
Growth Developm ent
'
cU a
D r . P a u l K o tin
Dr. Fred Pundsack
bcc:
S . W. S c h u lm e y e r
H. R. K eefe
RSI, c h r o n o
f ile F. T. V anderbil
file
A0
C. J . S u l.ew sk i
F. A. tiar.tinsori
.
R. P.. c S r 't d r -
C R M C-BEV -000375
NOxequifMS
^ Ijo h n s-M a n v ille
To: E.' M. F e n n e r , 1 - 0 6
From: H. S . Lamar, 3 - 0 5
Copies: J . H. S w e n s e n , J . P. L e i n e w e b e r , W. C. S t r e i b , D, C
subject:
Paper by C. S . Thompson "A sbestos in Your Future"
D r . L e i n e w e b e r ' s -comments,,:o n r. t h i s ^ p a p e r g i v e n .. i n . h i 3 ,
memo t o ..you d a t d - ^ e S p ^ feV}17.> 1 9 7 7 , a r e i h ;my o p i n i o n
c o r r e c t. b u t ;prh^F^||^p|:;(3'.
'
'
'
One o f .the"-
by.
. D r . .
:
d iseig ree ^ aS t ^ l^ ^ I 0b3ep,t^st^bndi#u
___ ..._____ _ _u_, . ir,e
we'll T hse^M ^U tlgsif'a're! r e p o r ts .':' :;"; '
evehi-.m br.sitgjip
R. S . Lamar
' .
ib
'
Attachm ents a l l cop ies
by C. S. THOMPSON Manager. - Minerals', Ceramics andPaper R&D, R I. Vanderbilt Co
Tij many, the (lie of these comments mightinfer a ma jor discovery of new asbestos deposits, ah increase in production, or new areas o f application. However, others might suspect a more serious und sinister mcahingrund. unfortunately ,,thc^arc. correct.'.
highly-uSCfuI material elsewhere:iriithe world.'
``Asbeslos'' mincralscreatedbyregulations
However, in the last few years, sin ce excessive .expo sure lo-.asbcslbs'.haslbecn.'shownitoVbc.ai.seriousrhSitlih h az ard .r|h e^ lJitH cd 5 ia te ^ tJv e^ rtcn ts1 itiff^ ^ ^ feu s
regtl 1?t/irV/Wb^nru*.;. hifQrnfiViririi^ihtr'smil^rtmiiR^iiS'hii-
cascs
............
c nviro nment^wi\h
.so that :thc:;natui
> .
y
surface
gi^ unil^ t^ fn
ers arid producers of Indusi'nhtihlmdrais^h^s^n^iy;%Vhs-
bestos" materials
ties, rubber; or as bnsi'c ingredients in'cciV>cn(sv&pak|irig -comptmndyraild-ccramie^rqdiicts . . . . . .--- ; _',.--;--
-T oStii ^.taindihW ^^% ^}<^U oalipn.7luikdeqnib. about. let us exami ne_Y f i e ' v . c i i h f e i i c l i ^ i i i i ' :or events which" has '(^ccuhcd'bV'cr?theypasi'''fewycal^,. '
Issuance of standard fn 1972 start hain of events
ti all beganxwithjtheissuance the Oci 'atiohaliSafc-
1. . 1A
A.sbc^v. F'ifWiiril
'
ulgatcd regulations listed.in..table. 2. It is obvious from these documents that the majority o f standard producing
Table 2. Initial Reliction. (IVimiiry definitions covering asbestos
.
exposures)
Agency
O sha
Daw
July 7.1972 (Revised Oct.
IS. 1972)
U.SliM (Coal) EPA (Air)
.
Ntiv. 7. 1972
Apr. 6. 1973
- '
.
.
Definitions
.
f>M in e r a ls (See lutile 1)
F ib e r - 3; 1 l.cnglh; width ratio >5 Micrometers in
length . Same as Ostia
.Same as Osha
Asbe.sitn n t tiirn u l - Asbestos or
any material containing asbestos A s b e s t o s f a it h m s - Any solid
Waste product of asbestos mining or milling operations which con tains asbestos
agencies, tire reluctant to develop definitions of their own
and arc perfectly satisfied to incorporate those promul
gated by others even to the perpetuation anil expansion
of erroneous ones.
,
B ureauoffylines tried to clarify issue wilhsymppsiiim
the realization that materials to be regulated most be cor
rectly defined and described by the-field-of science to
which (hey belong ifmeaningful stnndards arc to be devel
oped! To quote Professor.Tibor.Zollai 'bfdhc Department
o f Geology and GeOphysles, University of Minnesota;-in,
comments It* (he MinncsoiaPolliition Control ^Agency*
fegardiiigtliedlsiiiictltin belwecn,fiberso f natural dsbc*
tos nhd bfclctivfjgc fragments:
Unfortunately, the misuse o f some relevant mineral-
ogicol concepts ami terms arc becoming so wide
spread that it may he extremely difficult to correct
them. However, i f that Is not done, some mincrahgkal ]
concepts anil expressions will have double definitions:
one fo r mineralogists ond physicul scientis ts, and one
fo r axe in environmental public health sciences and
practices,
'
The continuing use o f these double definitions would
be m ost unfortunate as li-Will undiiuhtcdlylead to addi
tional misunderstanding and conflict, between mineral
ogists nnd geologists, on dne'side, ttiul environmental
and public health personnel on the other. As the con
cepts and expressions are odneraiogicai, the logical so
lution to this problem would hefa r the personnel in the
second category:to restrict themselves to the proper
altonby?
Sympsium on Tal c o n 1May*.8 9734 n
' tibie 3. Turnabout or Sidestep. (Secondary reactions
.
' concerning asbestos definitions)
Agency
EPA (Air)
D a re
May 3, 1974
USIJM Joly 1, 1974 ( Metilinonmetal)
Osha
Oct. 9. 1974 Nov. 21. 1974
EPA ' (Air) Mesa
Oct. 25. 1974. ' Dec. .1.3. 1974
D efinitions
Same ns Osha
Standard revised (o include only
"commercial asbestos," not opera
tions where asbestos was a con
taminant
Only includes asbestifonn varieties
of six minerals',' Recognizes exis
tence of niin'-fib'rotiSfdtitisSBfiscd
decision oh data prCkithtcii tit 1
symposium oirinlc*.
.
Agreement with tiilc.prixliicef'
Issocil fleIdmemorandum? using .
five critcria-forfihcr identifi
cation (see table 4)
Set cxclusionje.vcj of one percent
asbeskWcontent11- - -
- .
Issued memorandum iet|tiirt'ng use.
orcrilcri;i;Siinilar. toO sha for
counting fibers
W ashington, D.CV Numerous speakers presented,data
o3t.thb:in^fcaKc|rccts'r..inlc.'iihti.assoia'te'^iiiij|iiiQ.^gii
. bot h.
so
-.cutn'tlwrcH^sfri^t^irtHirKc ^iWeriiiir-dd^Si^liS^'ti
in detail..
fueluring'opcrations>an d :ihc `'releases of stsbestos-from .(aconite milling operations" as being excludcd from cov erage.
Efifort was made to correct erro r
. Ift the meantime, through the diligent and consistent cf-
TdrlS'Of a'sm alfgroupibfintcresicd parties, Oslia becam e.
;;wiirc!of.'iH.c:.crrbrsdriidcfinitipn:and the Department;of
f;
LrabbrJssued.an.agrcrnehtort
9. 1974Vwilhprtc;in-
'fi
;itstrilrfaic:-tir-ptfccfts'taiiirig tl&t-Vmm-fibrous bj.'hteqasj--.
'b^Stifd'rm'miheri'dsrs'uch'asinbn-asbcstiform
'^'(<Sivfthiil?th-sc^'pcjbT^.*s(aridttrd . . " Smitfttheris-
'fd'teV. on'N dv. 2h;l974`r:<3sh.Tjssucd a Field Information
W riibrandiim'' rccugrilfirt&ihe-two forms o f th-nphi-
bdlii riiincriils' nnd iistirtglfive criteria to be used iivdcter-
M
Tnble 4, Criteria to he used by O.shh in countmirfihers
A. Particles must appear to he fibrous rather than a.s crystals or
,U. ,-sThlyieerms,aximum diameter of a liber to be coun. ted.i.s 3 n JJ%Kt
crons.-
.
,
C.
-.TIicmaxinnim tiaiglh ofatiber to be counted is'30 microns.
D. "fhcdcri^th to'widih;riiiit>.`oiiisi be 5 or more, to I, thnt is ,.
;-iriii;'c.ir.!fmrc;1t>f(6di:lfitvfi^il.
bee,.iuscii aoc'pi bvcf.iht^'flBtotis.,iitirre, of-jhc;pttriiitcs;fThe.i . lengtilii''lto .Width miib of.5,tir. mre to-I Is not meant to imply thiitot her particles iire notlniziii'diuis,
piining Whtth'cr nmineral puntele could be consideredas r fibrBus.'r iisbestift:m r:Thcs'tirc.Tiibluted''n;tnbli4.,
'
Oshtt's recognition of the problem is evidenced hylhesc
Asbesltis Stitiiditftl (sec table 5).11 Not only did O shttpro- ^ '|jf
two documents mUI its repented verbid assurances thin
pose to'tiikc-iHbJtiep hiiCkward and use the aspect rntip.it* . ~ ; |
correct mincrtilogieul terminology and identification method would be incorporated into the asbestos amend ment nppciircd to signal it real and welcome change in this agency's attitude toward the scientific correctness of
(he sitlc'cnTdrion irt'dcfinitig tt fiber hut also to lOwer ihc . S . thrcshbldi|i^i|itViluci(TLV) from 5 fibers/cm*.(thisTLV |
wtfs auldfiiVtticfiilyVtlroppcd lo 2 fibers/cm3 on July .); f 1976) to :5>i3i^fi;ih:tb'c;;piciimblc to this document OjShit , |
its standards.
continues (o .vhotVits iiick of mincrtilogieitl c.xpcHwc'by i
V ery soon thereafter, on Dee, 13, 1974, Mesa issued ' `Health Division Instruction Memorandum No. 8-- Definilion o f Asbestos Fiber for Trcmoliic Occurring in
Table 5. Hack lo go and worse. (Most recent reactions
|
concerning asbestos definitions)
,->
T alc." which listed criteria for fiber determination similar
Agency Dun-
Di'fuuttom
to those outlined in the Oshn document. T he year 1974
ended with a feeling of optimism thiit science had won
Ostia Oct. 9. 1975 AMhu-rtth--No distinction as to
.}
out and (Juii future regulatory documents denting with
cryslidlincfojiiijj,-. . . .
"asb esto s" would contain definitions itnd terminology
her 3:1 Ic'nglhiwidth ratio ,
Jhnl would limit their application to the true asbestos min
= >5 micrometers in length (negates field memorandum");'
erals upon which all medical daia concerning human
HPA Gel. 14. 1975 No change fromoriginal--details
health hazards has been obtained.
'
(Ail)
disposal niclhods
HPA Gel. K>. 1975 No change fromoi igintil--groups
(Water)
woilastohiic with asbestos for re
quired effluent controls
Plan to rescind Labor Dept, agreement revealed
. Mesa June 29. 1975 Removes "asbestos'' icmiinalogy
(Mctnl-
and substitutes "mineral fiber"
The first indication that nil was not well was a thinly nonmcinl)
Mitwriilfiber tiny mineral par-
veiled ihreal early in 1975 that Osha-wa.<considering.the
tide with a3:1aspect ratioor
more
_
'JSr ` 3
rescinding of the Department of I^bora^ccm cnhw jih the before mentioned talc producer -ahdlifiM^i.lHaraiWairof
>5 Micrometers in length
Osha Field information Memorand um^74-92.: Thism a-
<5 Micrometers in width
neuver was based on misinfonnati<ii.sJ^J^.ti om-
petitor concerning the mineralogy^ 60He^taici products
in .question and on%continuingi:p r ^ y i ><fHfrpn> Niosh which, to this day. insists on.umngpnij^ihc,`sirhpiistic;3:I
(lengthr.vvidtJi) criterion to define aVfiber.i: mectihgwas
held with the then Assistant' Secretary b n Labor,: John
Stenderi with alhprincipais represerited.^t^KiHjStendcr
staled-that as. long as he held office boihei& gfeem enI
and Field Information McmorapuihVwiiIii'Tcmitin. in force. Slender left the Department bf. Labor sooruthere-
aftcr.
" Another document was brought to ouf'at.tchtion late in
the summer of 1975 by.Bureau,of-jMirtSip,fs^nhel;iT;his
was
Asscsstpent of. jsbcsts;. '
Sources o fiA sbestos.",a Th ispublicin
niiHiy .
with the occurrences d f-a n tp h i^ u lc ^ .^ l^ r S ^ tt ^ h e i'
under' th-subdtimof. " A s ^ ^ i f r h i ^ . i ^ ^ ^ ^ n 't f e s I.' ' .
-Mesa'prbp<>}tit\vu\tl3.cxpiid.nilniiig regulation
amphiBbics in. any. rock makes that rbcieitrp&tcfitial1 metdenlial source,of asbestos.']
. Proposed amendment lo s( . ><
.. i.^slcp
'I'hC;Sh'oe^drpppcd r Oct.-9,yj_975;(BJa6k-,Hfiur.,idtiy) ^ 11HVififelisStJiincdfpf"the ,'hdV|>fo^K^ifiHcnUtti'cni lb its
/VI../,.II. ,,;;,ir i, J/,\ .
/7
CRMC-BEV-000681
tfnutph 2U*
,a
vir''-
y 9
' lime defining, Tram (he standard and replacing il will) iwn containing material . . . al the end of each operating
* words, " mineral fther." The agency would further .simpli day." Try to imagine the situation the mining industry
cfylethihe;irieegxuclaeteodrs's5Dmiskiclrioyndscifntiiliennggath"fhibatern"otas5amnyic"ropnasniin Mwoeusald"hmeininerwalhelinbetrh'e' dFe.fPiAnitsiotanrltso ttoheaphpulnydtrheedsporofpthosoeud $
' width, and shall have a tcnglh-to-wiiltli ratio of al least 3 sands of Inns of mine tailings and overburden dumped 1
in 1." While the terminology and definitions are altered,
i daily, liven worse, try to dream up a soil or cover of any 1
, the requirements for humJling these "mineral fibers" re kind which would not contain any "mlncftil fib e rs /'
main the same as those promulgated for true asbestos.
Many stale agencies try to improve on their federal court
To my knowledge, there is no mineral assemblage imparts by setting more..stringent standards. The Illinois
being mined, milled, processed and either used as such or liPA, for example, requires that any "asbestos" co n
discarded as tailings that would not contain significant taining material be disposed of in steel drums.
am ounts of mineral particles which would be classified as
" mineral fibers" sing the Mesa definition. The majority o f silicates, including those most common in mineral de
Kvery mining company would bcaffeclcd
posits (i.c. amphihofes, pyroxenes and feldspars), and nil-'
mci'ous nonsilicntcs have, by nature, cleaviige charneler-
All the potential problems need not be elaborated on
istie.s that cause them to elongate during comminution. here. Liveryonc in the business of mining has been greatly
Nature itself forms particles meeting. M esa's criteria --affected by one or-more o f the-multitude of safety and
. through normal, weathering.processes.
health regulations now on the books, but Ibis latest " min
. Two points should be made quite clear at (his-time:
eral fiber" proposal by Mesa is probably the only stand
-- All of the medical data concerning the nature and cx- ard thiil fleets every.mining company in this nation. To
tent i>f health hazards related to asbestos-exposure
make it worse, it is based on a lack of medical data, a to
has been gained: on:
tally unjustified extrapolation of hazard from fibers to I
. * truly nshestiform varieties o f only four minerals,
noh-fibers and a complete absence of mtncralogical under
chrysolite, crocidolitc, amositc and anlhophyllitc standing and expertise.
...
groups of workers exposed to extremely excessive
In conclusion, I would urge the entire mining industry 'i
amounts of these nsbesliform minerals, usually as to support the efforts now being spearheaded by the
mixtures of at least two types.
AMC Noncoal Occupational Health Committceto coun
-- No definitive medical, data has been presented to in- teract the ever growing umbrella of the " asbestos-mincr-
dicatc that comparabie health hazards exist, with re id fiber" regulations. An AMC ad hoc subcommittee on
spect to the non-asbestiform varieties of the true-as "mineral fibers-" has alfeady made a presentation to the
.
bestos minerals. No references at all regarding expo Federal Mine Safety Advisory Committee in Birming
' sores to tremolite or aetinrilitc, in any form, were ham, resulting in the assignment o f that topic to subcom
included in the list o f 70 plus references listed in the
mittee for study. Continued efforts will be made to pre
Osha Asbestos Standard and the additional 42 con sent any and a!! d a ta w hich will aid all regulatory
" taming" " new- inform ation" in- ihc'prbpbscd amend ment. The extrapolation of hazard from three or four
agencies,-federal"and state, lo-eorrcct past errors in min
eral definitions and to make use of the vast reservoir of %
extremely- rare forms o f common minerals to the in
mincralogical expertise in the U/S. Bureau of Mines and
clusion of cleavage fragments and particles o f csscn-
Ihc U.S. Geological Survey tit all future standards dealing
' * bally all other minerals is entirely unwarranted.
with minerals. To accomplish this, the backing ofthc-.cn-
(ire mining.indnslry will be-needed.
Ramifications to mining boggle the mind
Almost everyone knows what-asbestos is. but there $ seems to be a.grcat many people in numerous regulatory 4
agencies that do not know what "asbestos" is not. Un
There are many ramifications of the.present and pro- . less these people are enlightened, most everyone-who
posed " asbestos" regulations, which would 'dircctly af has not had" " asbestos" in his past will-find that he has
fect the mining industry, that may not be immediately ap "asbestos" in his future.
parent. As mentioned earlier, regulatory agencies show a "great reluctance to develop definiliopStof their oWn and eagerly adopt .those suppii<idbyo!hers.-Thc;:ERA.is using
.
References
'federal Register. Vol. 37. No. tlti. July 7,. 1972. p. 11320-11322. X nlcrin-F or A-Recommended Standard^ Occupational hxposure
the 3:1 aspect ratio exclusively for the-six listed " as bestos'.' minerals in its extensive study of.w ater, con-
"to Asbestos. National Institute f o r Occupational Safety and Health.
1972;
.'Proceeding of ihc Symposium on "talc, Washinplim. D.C., May 8,
lamination.by mines, mills and manufacturing facilities. At present, the HPA requires that any material containing . one percent or-more '.'asbestos" must be disposed o f by covering with " at least 15 cm test: b in.) of non-asbestos'
Shelthm ihonipsoit is /{S/J Airin-
ayer-Minertds. Ceramils ami Paper th'partotrat. li. T. VanderhiU Co. Thump. Min henan Ill's professional eitr-er hi the field o fiiiiiieriilany in IWS as >, fesxor
al Wrsiminixlrr .Colleyc In salt la k e '
' City; loHiiwiiiy iluil. Thom t>i srrw '
us research upiiernlopisl-si ` in l.a'dt < Kninertill Capper Carp: - '
iniitcr'itUipiM-yrnitp mam .
sciences. Union Carbide <hrp. Minina
i'
and Mauds DMsitni. V inipsaii has n PhD from the UniVersih i f Utah.
- i.
1973. U.S. Htireuu of Mines Information Circular s 1), 1974.
q-edcral Register, Vnl. .39, No. 127. July 1: 1974 p, 24316.
Vadim. Tibor -.mil 3.- H. Stout. '"Commcnis on Asbcsufomi unit Fi
brous Mineral fragm ents. Relative In Reserve-Mining Company Tuconile Deposits."'-Minnesota Pollution Control Agency .` Mjir.24, 1976,
"Federal Register". Vol.. 39. No. (.7, May 3." !974ip. 15396.
'Lettcr lu H.-UriVaiiiicrbllt from John-H,-Slender. Assistant Sccrc-
tury o flJib d r.d atd d 0'et."9; .1974:
./
,
Ficlil inforrwlion Memorandum #74-92. Nov. 2I.-.W4. Tremolite
Asbestos." F.PA-6.Mt/2-74-OH7. Buttcltc Columbus. Laboratories. Septi
1974
. ."
.'
.'
" PedcridRegister. Vol. 40,'N... 197. Oct. 9,
"Fcdcm l Register. Vol. 40, No.-199.Oct. 14. ^b.P -:^^2-48W 2.
.'Federal Kegistdr. Vol. 40. No. 2 0 1 ,0 . IN l?75,p. ,48632^8663.
"Anciidii for the 19th Meeting fth e F cdcm l;M c^ and:Nanietat,.
Mine Safety Advisory C< ................... ................ ,9K: B'nmflshant, -
AL
CRMC-BEV-000682
R. T. V A N D E R B IL T COMPANY. INC.
3 0 WIN F IE LD S T R E E T NORW ALK, C O N N EC TIC U T 0 6 8 5 5
J u ly 18, 1978
CASL1 A&ORCftft
`'BILtVAWNOmVAL^COHNBOtlCVl TWX7IO*4ef*1940
. IIOS1 B69-UOO
Mr. M arcel C o s s e tte Quebec Asbestos Mining Association U n iv e r sity o f Sherbrooke, P.Q. Sherbrooke, QUEBEC J1K 2R1
D ear Mr. C o s s e t t e :
I t h as come t o my a t t e n t io n t h a t t h e req u irem en t fo r c a u tio n l a b e l s a s s t a t e d in paragraph 5 . 3 . 1 . o f t h e 1 2 th d r a f t o f t h e ASTM E-34 Standard f o r O ccu p a tio n a l Exposure to A sbestos i s unworkable a s w r itte n .
The wording "caution la b e ls sh o u ld be a f f ix e d to a l l raw m a t e r ia ls , m ix tu res, . scra p , w a ste, d e b r is , and o th er p rod u cts co n ta in in g asb esto s f i b e r s , o r t o t h e ir con tain ers," could be in terp reted by th e co u rts, in th e absence o f any q u alifyin g, minimum c o n c e n tr a tio n o f a s b e s t o s f i b e r s i n th e p r o d u ct, t o mean an y c o n c e n tr a tio n above z e r o . Such an in t e r p r e t a t io n was ta k e n by th e c o u r ts i n t h e c a s e : GAP Corp o r a t io n v . OSAHRC and Dunlop (No. 7 6 -1 0 2 8 ). i n r e la t io n t o th e OSHA a s b e s to s : sta n d ard req u irem en ts f o r m e d ic a l exams fo r e x p o se d em p lo y ees. The c o u r t r u le d t h a t "con c e n tr a tio n s o f a sb e sto s" , as sta te d in th e r e g u la tio n , meant any co n cen tr a tio n o f a s b e s t o s above z e r o .
O b v io u sly , a s i m i l a r in t e r p r e t a t io n o f "c o n ta in in g a s b e s to s f ib e r s " f o r pur p o s e s o f l a b e l i n g , w ould mean t h a t t h e a s b e s t o s warning la b e l w ou ld b e r e q u ir e d on m ineral product co n ta in ers where th e co n cen tra tio n o f a sb e sto s was in th e p a r ts p e r m i l l i o n r a n g e . The p o s s i b i l i t y t h a t t h i s m ight happen i s su p p o r te d by a r e c e n t f i n d i n g , through Freedom o f In fo rm a tio n R e q u e s ts , o f a recom m endation b y th e OSHA S o l i c i t o r ' s o f f i c e th a t t a lc s co n ta in in g any amount o f a sb esto s b e la b e le d w ith th e o f f i c i a l A sb estos Warning L ab el.
I t h a s b een argued t h a t th e OSHA r e q u ir e m e n ts fo r la b e lin g p r o d u c ts c o n ta in in g
a s b e s t o s , w hich u s e s e s s e n t i a l l y th e same la n g u a g e as th e ASTM d r a f t sta n d a r d , m ight
be in t e r p r e t e d t o mean t h a t o n ly p r o d u c ts c o n ta in in g s u f f i c i e n t a s b e s t o s "so t h a t
during any reasonably fo reseea b le u se, han d lin g, storage, d isp o sa l, p ro cessin g , or
tran sp ortation , no airborne con cen tration s o f asbestos fib e r s in ex c e ss o f the pre
sc r ib e d exposure lim its" be la b e le d . N a tu r a lly i t would be u n reason ab le to b e lie v e
t h a t a p ro d u ct c o n t a in in g , f o r exam p le, 0.1% a s b e s to s cou ld r e l e a s e more than 2
f ib e r s /c .c . under normal co n d itio n s o f u se. But as long as th e language o f the
standard remains vague o r u n s p e c ific , th e c o u r ts, in th e ir e f f o r t s t o fa v o r the
p r o te c tio n o f th e em ployee, m ight e a s i l y adopt an a ttitu d e s im ila r t o t h a t a p p lie d
in th e GAF c a s e .
.
However, th e GAF c a s e p o in t s o u t th e n eed f o r p r e c is e term s i n r e g u la t io n s o f
im portance t o human l i f e . C ir c u it Judge MacKinnon, in h is c o n c u r r in g o p in io n in
th e GAF c a se c r i t i c i z e s th e r e g u la t io n ;
c r m c -m a d -0 0 0 3 2 2
f 2 W*dorotyuartitteetheresuittob*t<Bind
R. T VANDERBILT COMPANY, INC .
2d C.P.H. #1910.1001fb)llj and (2) (IT'm. The prescribed standards in these regulalint were; "five fibers, longer (Han 5 micro meters, per cubic centimeter of air." and after July 7. 1976. "two fibers." These standards inform the nation's employers precisely what degree of exposure is per mitted and what -.xposure is excessive, but the regulation requiring medical examina tions is almost completely deficient in this respect.
What number of fibers, of what length, per what volume of air will constitute a "concentration" is nowhere stated or even hinted at---and like the regulation, the court's opinion leaves the matter completely to conjecture. This is particularly unsettling
to law abiding citizens when the agency is ' dealing with tremendously minute quan
tities of infinitesimally small particles. It makes compulsory law enforcement diffi cult and it lessens the likelihood of voluntaiy compliance with the law, a result devoutly to be wished., The first requirement for uniform and voluntary compliance with the law is a clear understandable statement of what conduct is required and this regula tion falls woefully short or that minimal, requirement.
Regulations that have Hie great im portance that this regulation has to human fife should be -written in more precise terms--so people of ordinary understanding can determine what course of conduct .is being required or them. What one person might consider to constitute a "concentra tion" will differ greatly from 1he interpre tation that another would give (o that term: and what one person loday might regard not (o constitute a concentration" might be considered tomorrow, on the basis of hind sight as medical knowledge increases, to come within that term.'
Page 2
^believe, however, that the Occupational Safety and Health Review Commission Should clarify the regulation governing medical examinations so as to give other persons subject to.the regulation reasonable notice of some measurable quantity of air borne asbestos the Commission intends u> trigger the medical examination require-nient. Merely to slate that all employers must provide medical examinations when ever flicir employees arc exposed to "con centrations" of asbestos fibers docs not provide an ascertainable standard for those who wish to comply with the law.
For th e above r e a so n s we b e lie v e th e language o f paragraph 5 .3 .1 . concerning
caution la b e ls should read:
CRMC-MAD-000323
, R T. V A N D E R B IL T C O M P A N Y . IN C .
Page 3
C aution la b e ls should be a ffix e d t o a l l raw m a te r ia ls , m ix tu res, sc ra p , w a ste, d e b r is , and o th e r p ro d u c ts c o n ta in in g more than 1 p ercen t a sb esto s on a dry w eigh t . b a sis or to th e ir con tainers, except th at no la b e l i s req u ired where a sb e sto s fib e r s have been m od ifie' by a bonding a g en t, c o a tin g , b in d er, or o th er m a teria l so th a t during any reasonably fo re see a b le u se , h an d lin g, sto ra g e, d isp o sa l, p ro cessin g , or tran sp ortation , no airborne co n cen tra tio n s o f a sb esto s fib e r s in ex cess o f th e exposure lim its p rescribed in 5 .1 w ill be relea sed .
T his i s th e same e x c lu s io n a llo w e d i n th e EPA N a tio n a l E m ission Standard f o r A sbestos (Federal R eg ister 38, 8829 A p ril 6 , 1 973), fo r sp rayin g, which reads:
(e)-Spraying: There s h a ll be no v is ib le em issio n s to th e o u tsid e a ir from spray-on a p p lic a t io n o f m a te r ia ls c o n ta in in g more than 1 p ercen t a sb e sto s, on a dry w eigh t b a s is , used to
Furtherm ore, the p r a c tic e o f s e tt in g ex c lu sio n le v e ls fo r reg u la ted m a teria ls
h a s b een f o llo w e d b y OSHA i n t h e c a s e o f t h e 14 c a r c in o g e n s (29CFK 1 9 1 0 .1 0 0 3
through 1910.1016) w herein ex c lu sio n le v e ls o f 0 .1 and .1 .0 p erc en t were allow ed
fo r v a rio u s c a r cin o g e n ic ch em ica ls b e fo r e th e r e g u la tio n a p p lie d , and more r e c e n tly
i n t h e c a s e o f t h e OSHA b e n z e n e s ta n d a r d (29CFR 1 9 1 0 .1 0 2 8 ) w h e r e in t h e r e i s no
w arning la b e l requirem ent fo r m ixtu res co n ta in in g 0 .5 p ercen t benzene (0 .1 p ercen t
a fte r June 27, 1981).
'
.
C R M C -M A D -000324
The p r a c tic e o f ch o o sin g e x c lu s io n l e v e l s f o r r e g u la te d m a te r ia ls co u ld be
c o n s id e r e d a s an e f f o r t b y OSHA and o t h e r r e g u l a t i n g a g e n c ie s - t o now r e c o g n iz e " f e a s ib ilit y " in th e developm ent o f sta n d a rd s. I t would n o t be f e a s ib le t o an alyze a l l s i l i c a t e m ineral m ixtures fo r any a sb esto s co n ten t, y e t a requirem ent t o la b e l ta lc s or any .other s i l i c a t e m inerals assem blages such as p y ro p h y lli'te , k a o lin , m o n t m o r ill o n it e , e t c . c o n t a in in g a n y a s b e s t o s w o u ld o b l i g a t e t h e p r o d u c e r s o f many n o n -b e n e fic ia te d m in eral p ro d u cts to m a in ta in an ex trem ely c o s t ly program o f .tra ce a n alysis.
In a d d it io n t o f e a s i b i l i t y , t h e a g e n c i e s a r e a l s o q u e s t i o n i n g t h e n e c e s s i t y ---- o f s t r i n g e n t ^ r e g u l a t i o n i n a r e a s su c h a s l a b e l r e q u ir e m e n ts . -The e x c e p t io n t o l a b e l i n g i n t h e OSHA s ta n d a r d f o r m a t e r i a l s c o n t a in i n g a s b e s t o s t h a t h a s been- m o d if ie d w ith a b in d er, t c ., i s ev id en ce o f a r e c o g n itio n th a t on ly tr a c e amount o f a sb esto s w ill be r e le a s e d by th e normal h a n d lin g o f th e s e p r o d u c ts. I f o n ly tr a c e amounts o f a sb e sto s can be r e le a se d from a n on-m od ified . m ixtu re co n ta in in g a low p ercen ta g e o f a s b e s to s , then th ere i s s im ila r ly no. need to la b e l or r e g u la te th e m ixtu re.
In a f i n a l c o n s id e r a t i o n o f t h e n eed t o s t i p u l a 4-0 a c o n c e n t r a t io n o f a s b e s t o s in a m ineral p rod uct m ixture below w hich no warning lab . would be req u ired th e s ta te o f th e a r t o f a s b e s to s d e t e c t io n 1 c o u n tin g should be r e c o g n iz e d . D e s p ite some p u b lish ed r e p o r ts th a t co n c e n tr a tio n s o f a sb e sto s 1 alow 1 p e r c e n t can b e d e te c te d w ith accu racy, i t rem ains th a t th e a ccu ra te id e n t if ic a t io n and q u a n tita tiv e deternnna-
fjt.'T. V A N D E R B IL T C O M P A N Y , IN C -
Page 4
t io n o f some, o f th e amphibole v a r i e t i e s o f a s b e s to s i n an unknown m ixture i s d i f f i c u l t
below 5 p e r c e n t and alm ost im p o ssib le below 2 p e r c e n t by w eigh t c o n c e n tr a tio n . T h is
coupled with the present unresolved controversy over the d e fin itio n o f an asb estos
f i b e r fa v o r s th e s e t t in g o f a minimum a s b e s to s c o n cen tra tio n f o r p u rp oses o f la b e lin g
req u irem en ts i n th e ASTM d r a f t stan d ard f o r a s b e s to s .
1 would be p leased to d is c u s s t h i s m atter fu rth er a t our n ext m eeting o f B-34
com m ittee.
'
.
S in c e r e ly ,
R. T., VANDERBILT COMPANY, INC.
AMH:lsm
A lla n M. Harvey, Manager
*
T echnical Development Department
CRM C-M AD-000325
t .Ov/i 1. .C.. . /i,|
.*,. .- . -
( j r: rii"\
j ,._ .___v_ ,"..y . j '... ,,^.vLo 'J w
. /J. Lm/iar. - K6D V, VioJkoduf:' - li&U
D.ii.)' October 23, 197^ .
' D is t r ib u t io n u;r R everse i>ide
TKM Adi'. SELECTED AREA DIFFRACTION PATTERNS OF ASBESTOS MINERAI.S IN K M ' T/.LC SAMPLES i'iiOijUCED BY R. 1'. VANDERBILT COMPANY
J.
. '
At your r e q u e s t , I wus a b le t o c o n tr a c t tim e on th e P h ilip s 200
.. i i r o n mL.;ror. cope tit Denver Reucnrch I r io t it it le t o co n firm by
lectuii area d iffr a c tio n p attern s j th e presence o f c h r y s o tile ,
.'ii.tl.u /diyllili.- and tr u K o lit o in a l l th e R. V. V a n d er b ilt t a l c s
it':;i
Jyi.nl 2 0 0 , H y la l hOO, A sb e stin e 37., and A s b e s tin e Yc'-`/A
r e f.-i l.o n.y . le t t e r o f O ctober 0 ,
, which in bn.nai
i... i d . l l y or. FDA o p tj.c u l mbthoda and th e u se o f our RCA e le c t r o n
;.iierotic.pen to con firm c h r y s o t il e ) . I t was f e l t t h a t s e le c t e d '
nr.:,\ ififfr a c tio n p a tte r n s o f th e a sb esto s m in erals u sin g th e
I't ! i ip-.. 200 would le n d p o s i t i v e i d e n t i f i c a t i o n - u ty p e o f
a n a l y s i s v/hicl, can n ot be done on our RCA EMIJ-3H m odel.
2 . Table ilo. 1 not on ly id e n t if ie s sam ples, b u t.a ls o id e n t if ie s
. a i l TKM p r in t s and s e l e c t e d a r e u d if f r a c t io n p a tt e r n s o f t h e
.
. 33 p r i n t s .a tta c h e d t o t h i s , . l e t t e r . The TEM p l a t e s a re a lw ays
ori f i l e . - T h e'm icroscop e, c o n s t a n t (L A ) v a s d e r iv e d by a v er& ein f
21 m icroscop e c o n s t a n t v a lu e s b a sed on l i n e s o f Au and Pa. The
m icroscope con stant is :
'
L A = )t.)i5 1 A cm 1 0 .0 0 3
To c a lc u la te u ~spacini' in Angstrorn u n it s , the. fo llo w in g form ula
was used:
____ L A (A cm )
- . ..
.
<9
pot p a i r ru d iu s ' (cm) ~ --.p a c in g { )
C n r y s o t ilc , n n t h o p h y llit e .,. and t r e m o li le were a l l found i n each o',
t.lu: fou r R. V. V a n d e r b ilt t a l c , sa m p les. P a r t i c u l a r d a ta f o r .-ouch'
sam ple are. found, in T ab le No. 1 un a p p r o p r ia te a tta c h e d e l e c t r o n
d iffraction p atterns.
:
.
l / i d i k a t /,
v.
Wolk odo f f `` '
` J.d. Attachm ents
. EOTCNiQOii
DEPOSITION
l
EXHIBIT
IN
CRMC-BEV-000274
Distribution :
k; ]'. Carter*
. K. Connor
Paul K otin , M.D.
V/.'.n. Jteitze
'
K. J . bolnn, J r .
i;,.- I,, wallow
A. C. I1'- 'KiHliUiner
A. McKinney
11.. I-. Koi; /'<* . I'.- A. Martinson
C. ,1. Sulcwaki W. b. VanDerbcek
U,, C. HIode '
` .'lYinUi a tta ch ed o n ly t o those' names fo llo w ed by a s te r is k
^C -B E V -000275
. ; _ .. , v ^ y - :, - .- . . >5 > V i ':'ixi
'
. TABLE 1
. .
'
Vfv! T a b u la tio n o f M icr o g ra p h s and S e le c t e d A rea D i f f r a c t i o n P a tte r n s . o f fo u r T a lc S a m p les From H. T . V a n d e r b ilt Co.
yauriori'J \ l
T ifi P iu te
* f0,. J'tvS J'i.al i H Ko. , M apitif i e n t
i..u 7 A P 5 5 r t Ay t a l litui
}*
b y Lui Sq
'S
nv:-7*.:`5 5 - i i'iyiial 200
). :n: 7 ,b '5 5 -i b y t u i 200'
23UJLA, 1 1 ,0 0 0 X
231.7A lo ,0 0 0 X . 2 3 0 5 A , 22-,OOOX
5 \*
7 . }j
1..; y 5 - 1 lu: yii,'";5-i
.Sytal 200 fly ta l- 201;
i;'7t;-55-l Iiytul 2-0 ';i.::55-l Kytal' 200
2306A , 2 2 ,000X
-
. .
2307A, 2 2 ,ooox --
w
7 t 2 5 5 - 2 U y ta l 1)00 ' 2 3 0 2 D , ll.O O X
;o
' ' . h y ' s W K y ta l 00
23lfiC , l6,00O X .
i ' i-;;
.
7'n'55
l i y t a i fi00 N ylut boo
230A, 22.000X
"
_
'
f '>
7.P 5 5 -2 ' fly t a l hoo.
iA
ho 7 )'2 5 5 " 2 l y t n l 1)00
2309A, 22,000X
-
15
a .:'Y b 2 5 5 -2 U y t a l Aoo . 2310A 3 2 jOOX
1.0 7 2 5 5 -2 K y ta l hOO
-
.7
. f 7 t;:y > " 3 A s b e s t in e 3X 2 3 0 3 0 , l l , 0 0 0 x
u.
Vf.2 9 5 - 3 As t e s t i n e . 3X 239V lo.OOOX
i 'J
V 'iP y-'l A s b e s t i n e 3X" -2 3 1 1 A , 22. 00X `
Y'..'.*59-3 A sb estin e 3X
of
Anbontlne- iY.
7-'>255 -3 A sb estin e 3X
2312A, 22.00X
:' ,*f-55-3 A sb estin e 3X 2313A, -22,000X ;.'A .y Y`>2;>5-3 A sb estin e 3X -- . '
;'s
Vb2'i5-ii A sb estin e 325 230bA.,. ll.OOOX
;o . C T t255-t' A sbestine 325 2322A, l6.,000X
S.-lccted Arco Di f fraction
2305B. 23133
Oliryn o t ile fib e r
P a ttern -is .of Itient
fib er in 2305A,
C ltfysotile
'
Anthophyllite f - r
AnWiojihylli t.- f ! '.
in 2 3 O0 A
Tremoli te j`i .
Tremoli te f i iv
2307A .
C hrynotile :".t.i-r
P a t t e r n o f <.'..ry
i f '-p
above
Anthophyll i P utte rn: o f A.ithopi.yl 1 P t||
above .
'
Trernolitc f i ... .
P attern' o f V ,-.--
above
C h ry so tile f i t * . ' on
bottom
\
P atternpof th.-vac.ri 3s
above
.
Anthophyll i t <
Pattern o f A.i...... -,
above
T rem olitc f i -< .
P attern o f '.`.a ...&i i ti_-`
above
'
. ..w j|| ^
^1 ;i'^l
Fiber, i s com!...tun .iiitrysS t i l e and Ampi-iluU-
CRMC-BEV-0 0 0 2 7 6
' >
.
.
(2) `I ' u b L t j 1 COiitjiiUUU
;v.-. ."7 b>.'
'Vhiulevuij. L .l>, .-Vt;i, i'l'n u tio n .
TOi P la te Wo, , liana j f ic a t io n
Aul/estinu 325 -
<.'vi !2;
r Aubestiric-. 323 23lW i, .22,000J{
/.<*/ i.-J '''2v5-* Aubest inu 327
30 ' U>.` ',7:255-)i A sb e stin e 327 2315A, 22.000X
*5 j
-h /ir.ijcuiam: 327 " - .
v' * 7 p- t A sb e stin e 327 2316A, 22.000X
3j
.;c '(Uuyj-h. A sb e stin e 325 - .
'
.
ejected /fivu
D iffraction
P a tte r n , 35^ f(i,utrkr.
.
2322b
-
231 'ID
2315^ 2316b
Chry.noti J n p su -e /,. superim pose! or,
/imp!)ibole p ; , . .
C h r y so tile :'ii;r
. . P a tte rn o f Cr.r;'so si lu
above Lonneat fib e r in
AnthojSfrylli te
:
futL crn *!* A;.*, .v v )ij'? Wu>
auovi?
I.am o s t fiVu',' '*
ifrem olite
P a tte r n o f `fr. i '.te
above
t
MEMBERS OP CELITE ENVIRONMENTAli COMMITTEE
.
j
!I 1
E n c l o s e d to r. y o u r i n f o r m a t i o n i s a copy o f t h e p r e s e n t a t i o n
made by D r. W i l li a m Ji.S m J .th i n b e h a l f a R. T. V a n d e r b i l t Company a t t h e T a l c Symposium i n W ash in gton on May 8. B a s ic a lly , Dr. Smith con clu des th a t th e ca r cin o g e n ic a c t io n o f c h r y s o t i l e is. r e l a t e d t o d o se and i n t r a p le u r a l i n j e c t i o n s - o f t a l c c o n t a i n i n g !>0$ t r e m o l i t e in d u c e d no mesotheliom as in haissters, whereas sim ila r in jectio n s o f oth er types o f asb estos produced m esotheliom as, the nun\ber o f which vary p r o p o r tio n a te ly w ith d o se.
Richard Carter
!; .
*
IlXPEia.Ml'JNTAL STUDIES. ON. BIOLOGICAL KPFLCTS
. OF TRilMODITi: 'l'ADC : ON HAMSTERS
-
W i l l i a m E. Sm ith M.D. Health Research In stitu to Fairleigh' Dickinson University M a d is o n , New J e r s e y 07940
P r e s e n ta tio n fo r Symposium on T alc Dust Hazards,
U .S . Bureau o f M ines,
.
W ashington, D.C.
May 0 , 1 9 7 3 .
ife-^,
-, ; _v.`.
I
y--
U1W
-1~
My name i s w i l l ia m li. Sm ith. I am d i r e c t o r o f
H ealth R esearch I n s t i t u t e a t F a i r l c i g h Di.cfci.nson U n i v e r s i t y ,
Madison, N .J . I am a d o c to r o f m e d ic in e . Over th e p a s t
25 y e a r s , I have stu d ie d , more than 200 chem ical m a t e r ia ls
for c a r c in o g e n ic it y in anim als and have reported r e s u lt s
of th ese t e s t s in s c i e n t i f i c jo u rn a ls. In the past 8 years
my a s s o c i a t e : ; and J exposed a n im a ls t o v a r i o u s minerai,
d u s t s , m aintained them over th e ir n atural l i f e spans,
and s t u d ie d them fo r p a t h o lo g i c changes by g r o s s and
m icroscopic exam ination of t h e ir t i s s u e s and organs.
' The p r in c ip a l purpose o f th e s e l a t t e r s tu d ie s has
been to develop, inform ation on p o s s ib le fib ro g en ic
and/or carcinogenic properties of various preparations
o f m in era l d u s t s . The p r i n c i p a l su p p o rt f o r t h i s work
was p r o v id e d by R esearch Grant EC 00226 from Bureau o f
Occupational S afety and H ealth, U.H. Public Health S ervice.
Thus f a r , we have p u b l i s h e d f i v e p a p e r s , l i s t e d b e lo w ,
d e s c r ib in g some o f our fin d in g s in anim als exposed to
various prparerions of a sb esto s. Today, 1 would lik e to
o f f e r a b r i e f summary o f our ex p e r im e n ts w ith a s b e s t o s
and d e s c r i b e as y e t u n p u b lis h e d d a ta from s t u d i e s we
have made w ith a . sample o f t a l c c o n t a i n i n g a l a r g e
.
amount o f t r e m o l i t e .
CRMC-ELS-OOMlSj
Prom o u r w o r k , we i d e n t i f i e d 1 he G olden S y r i a n , ham ster as a s p e c ie s th a t was cap ab le o f d evelop ing pulm onary f i b r o s i s r e s e m b lin g a s b e s t . o s i s s e e n i n man. Those exp erim en ts were done by rep ea ted in tr a tr a c h e a l injection.*: o f ch ryr.otile or anionite a sb esto s.
The method vised fo r th o se e x p e r im e n ts, weekly in t r a t r a c h e a l i n j e c t i o n s , i s t e c h n i c a l l y te d io u s and t i m e - c o n s u m i n g . We fou n d t h a t we c o u l d com pare t h e r e l a t i v e f i b r o g e n i c i t y and c a r c i n o g e n i c it y o f m in eral d u sts more c o n v e n ie n tly by d ep o sitin g - the d u sts by a sin g le in je c tio n in to the pleural space o f hamsters.
A fter sin g le intrap leu ral in je c tio n of preparations o f the c h r y so tile , am osite, an th op h yllite or cro cid o lite t y p e s o f a s b e s t o s , we fou n d t h a t h a m s te r s d e v e lo p e d e x te n s iv e p leu ra l adhesions. Those adhesions were composed la r g e ly o f round c e l l s and m u ltin u c le a te d g ia n t c e l l s in - t h e f i r s t few months a ft e r in j e c t io n . W ithin f i v e m onths, th e se adhesions became d en sely f i b r o t i c . A d h esio n s induced by the c h r y s o t i l e , a m o site , a n th o p h y llit e or c r o c id o lite types of asb estos tended to extend over largo areas of the surfaces of the lungs. .
In c o n t r a s t , we saw v e r y l i t t l e r e a c t i o n when we gave ham sters in tra p leu ra l in je c tio n s o f a sample of tiroino] i t c t a l c , which I s h a l l i d e n t i f y by our sam p le, number, FD-14. A fter in tr a p le u r a l .in jectio n o f th is
CRMC-ELS
s?f- -
-3 "
trem olite ta lc , the p a r tic le s were gath ered .in to sm all
d e p o t s Oh chO
s u r t a o e . l 'honc d e p o t s c o n t a i n e d '
.
round c e l l s and m u ltin u c le a te d g ia n t c e l l s , b u t th e r e
war, v e r y l i t t l e f o r m a t i o n o f f i b r o u s t i s s u e . . The
experim ents thus show th a t fib r o g c n ic a c t i v i t y o f
'
t r e m o l i t e t a l c i s v ery much l o s s than th e f i b r o g c n i c
action of the four p rin c ip a l types of asb estos.
A l s o , , i n ham ster's t h a t hacl beon g i v e n i n t r a p l e u r a l
i n j e c t i o n s o f t h e fo u r p r i n c i p a l t y p e s o f a s b e s t o s , we
fou n d i n t r a t h o r a c i c tu m ors t h a t wo d e s i g n a t e a s
m esotheliom as (Table 1 }.
-
.
Prom th e d a ta o f T a b ic 1 , i t can he soon t h a t
th e y i e l d o f m esoth eliom as, in groups o f 50 ham sters
per .sample, was r e la te d to d o se. In response to a la rg e
d o s e (25 mg) o f c h r y s o t i l o , 9 h a m sters d ev elo p ed
m e s o t h e l i o m a s . In r e s p o n s e t o a s m a l l e r d o s e (10 mg) o f
c h r y s o tile , 4 hamsters developed m esotheliom as. In
r e s p o n s e t o a s t i l l s m a lle r d o s e ( 1 mg) th e r e were
no inesot.hfjli.omas. T his exp erim ent p rovid es ev id en ce
to show th a tth e c a r c in o g e n ic a c tio n o f c h r y s o t ile i s
rcIcited to close, hence should be c o n tr o lla b le by
appropriate in d u stria l hygiene measures to con trol dose. A t . t h e 10 mg d o s e l e v e l , a m o s i t e and a n t h o p h y l l i t e
gave about the same y ie ld o f m esotheliom as as. d id c h r y s o l i t e ,
but e r o c j .d o lit e induced more than d ouble th e number o f
m esotheliom as got with the other types of a sb esto s.
.
CRMC-ELS-0044201
.**4^
W
A ls o , e r o c i d o l i t e induced m esoth eliom as in two
ham sters tr e a te d w ith the lo w e st d o se l e v e l ( 1 mg),
whereas n o.m esotheliom as ocurred in animals treated with
that dose of ch ry so tile or am osite.
T able 2 shows r e s u lts o f t e s t s fo r ca r c in o g e n ic ity of
s i x p r e p a r a t i o n s o f c h r y s o t i l e i n g ro u p s o f 50 h am sters
each. E ach.of th ese preparations was tested a t our .
h i g h e s t clo se l e v e l (25 mg p e r i n j e c t i o n ) . The t a b l e
g i v e s d a t a on t h e mean f i b e r l e n g t h and mean f i b e r
d ia m e te r o f t h e s e s a m p le s, i t can be s e e n t h a t 8 t o 10
m esotheliom as were induced by th re e o f th ose sam ples:
harsh c h r y s o t i l e , s o f t c h r y s o t i l e and the same sam ple
o f s o f t c h r y s o t i l e h e a t - t r e a t e d t o a c h i e v e some o f .
the p ro p erties of harsh c h r y so tile . These three samples
t h a t p roved c a r c in o g e n ic had mean f i b e r le n g t h s o f 5 .3
to 6 .9 m ic r o n s , mean f i b e r d ia m e te r s o f 0 .2 to 0 .1 8 m icro n s.
Those tlircc a c tiv e p rep aration s o f c h r y s o tile ware
subjected to further m illin g to reduce th m ajority of
.
p a r t i c l e s t o su b m ic r o s c o p ic d im e n s io n s . The t a b l e shovJs
that th is reduction in p a r tic le s iz e elim inated the
carcin ogen ic e f f e c t o f th ese samples.
Wow, wo h a v e t e s t e d a . s a m p l e o f t r e m o l i t c t a l c f o r
ca rcin o g en icity in hamsters. Electron d iffr a c tio n stu d ies
o f th is sample show ed-it to con tain 50t fib rou s tr em o lite
and 35^ t a l c (T able 3 ). A m a jo rity o f th e t a l c p a r t i c l e s
wore p l a t y , b u t some wore r o l l e d or f i b r o u s .
-
fc
jC R M C -E L S -0 0 4 4 2 1
I
-5 -
In t h i s sam ple, th e f ib r o in p a r t i c l e s had average
len gth o f 5.7 m icrons, average diameter o f 1 .6 m icrons.
They a r e t h e r e f o r e i n a s i .z c range t h a t m ig h t fce
ca rcin o g en ic in our experim ents w ith c h r y s o tile . However,
th i s s a m p le o f t r e m o l i t e t a l c i n d u c e d nO m e s o t h e l i o m a s .
a fte r in trap leu ral in je c tio n in to hamsters.
T able 5 g iv e s d e t a i l e d d ata on th o se to o ts which
were conducted a t our h ig h e s t dose le v e l (25 mg). In
view o f the long la te n t period before development of
.
tu m ors, i f we w ish t o compare r e l a t i v e c a r c i n o g e n i c i t y
o f d i f f e r e n t s a m p l e s , v a l i d i t y o f t h e c o m p a r is o n s
depends on th e number o f a n im a ls . s u r v iv in g i n t o th e
l a t e r p e r io d s o f th e t e s t s . In T able 5, th e number o f
s u r v iv o r s in each group a t each tim e p eriod i s shown
a s th e denom inator. The cu m u la tiv e number o f anim als
b ea rin g m esoth eliom as i s shown its th e num erator.
.
We s t a r t e d , w i t h a b o u t 50 h a m s t e r s i n . e a c h g r o u p . The
f i r s t tumor was found a t 151 days in an animal, t h a t had
.
been treated with harsh c h r y so tile .
.
,
Mov l o t us l o o k a t t h e s i t u a t i o n a s i t vas 500 d a y s
a ft e r s ta r t of t e s t s . At th a t tim e, A m esotheliom as
$'
had occurcd in the group trea ted with s o f t c h r y s o t ile
.
and o n ly 11 an im als s u r v iv e d .
m
In the group tr ea te d with harsh c h r y s o t ile ,
7 m esotheliom as; had o cc u r cd and 13 ham sters were s t i l l 0 ivi ng.
in the group given h ea t-trea ted s o f t c h r y s o tile ,
t h e r e vicro A .m esoth eliom a and 17 .su rv iv o r ; . OKMC-ELS-004422
tW
By co m p arison ,, no m c n o t h c lic m a s had occu rod i n
th e group tr e a te d v/ith tr o m o lite t a l c , and th ere wore
27 s u r v iv o r s *
The gro u p on t r o m o l i t e t a l c t h u s had many more
animals a t risk in the la te stage o f the te s t s , yet
no m esotheliom as d eveloped in them.
Tn t h e t h r e e g ro u p s o n p r e p a r a t i o n s o f c h r y s o t i l e
a l l o f the anim als had d ie d or wore k i l l e d to c l o s e
o u t t h o s e g r o u p s by 650. d a y s . At t h a t t i m e , t h e f i n a l
y i e l d o f m esoth eliom as i n th o s e groups was 8, 9 and 10
re sp e c tiv e ly .
By co m p a r iso n , th e group on t r o m o l i t e t a l c had
d cvclop ecl.n o m esotheliom as by 650 d ays, and th ere were
s t i l l 15 anim als liv in g and a t r is k in th a t group a t
th a t time..
.
B ig h t.o f th ese survivors died of various causes b e t w e e n 650 and 700 d a y s . No m e s o t h e l i o m a s w e re found
in them.
.
The rem aining 7 su rv iv o rs on tr e m o lite t a lc were
k i l l e d f o r e x a m in a tio n a t 700 d a y s . No m e s o th e lio m a s
v/ero found in them.
.
Throughout the . t e s t s , animals treated v/ith the
p r e p a r a tio n s o f c h r y s o t il e v/cre found to have th ick fib rou s p leu ral adhesions extending over large areas of the lung su rfaces, whereas animals treated with
-7-
tremolito talc never showed more than small depots of
the mineral p a rticle s with r e la tiv e ly l i t t l e tissu e
r e a c tio n .
These experim ents thus show profound d ifferen ce!?
betv/een the b io lo g ic e f f e c t s o f trem olite ta lc as ;
compared with the b io lo g ic e f f e c t s of c h r y s o tilc
a sb esto s.
'
RBPBRRl!CJ5S
.
1 . S m i t h , w. b . , i,. M i l l e r , R . u . B l a a s s c r and D .B , H u b e r t. . ' f o n t s f o r c a r c i n o g e n i c i t y o f a s b e s t o s . A n n a ls New
York Academy o f S c i e n c e s 132 (Art .1): 456 4 8 8 , 1965.
2 . M i l l e r , . I , , , VMJ. S m it h , S.W. B e r l i n e r . T e s t s f o r e f f e c t
o f a sb e sto s on bsm so(a)pyrene c a r c in o g e n e s is in the
r e s p i r a t o r y t r a c t . Annals: New York Academy S c i e n c e s
132 (Art 1): 469-500, 1965.
'
3 . S m ith , W.E. A s b e s t o s i n r e l a t i o n to tumors o f t h e
r e s p i r a t o r y t r a c t . Pp. 5 6 5 -5 7 0 in Lung Tumors in A nim als. L. S e v e r ! , e d i t o r , Univ P erugia ( I t a l y ) 1966.
4 . S m i t h , W. K. , L. M i l l e r and J . Churg. An e x p e r i m e n t a l model for study of cocarcin oyen cois in the resp ira to ry t r a c t , AEC .Symposium S c r i e s 21: 2 9 9 - 3 1 6 , 1 9 7 0 .
5 . S m i t h , W. E . , D. D. H ub ert and M. B a d o l l e t . B i o l o g i c d if f e r e n c e s in re sp o n se to long and sh o r t a s b e s to s f i b e r s . Amer I n d u s t Hyg A ssn J o u rn 33:A 162 P e b . 1973,.
-`.il
CRMC-ELS-004424 j m
CRMC-ELS-004425
'M c R M C - E L S '0 0 4 4 2 6
CRMC-ELS-004427
CRMC-ELS-004428
CRMC-ELS-004429
From: . e . H. F e n n e r
.
' Cop'-
Subject:
P. K o tin , M.D. j , D. McGrath F ile & C
qSHA DIRECTIVE - TREMOr.lv-' AND TALC
*R. P. C a rter W. A . C o o p er . C. F. F in k b in e r I I I
D. E. S i l l i e r T . M. J a c k s o n , J r . H. R. K eefe
R. W. M cln d oe ' W. B . R e i t z e ..
ij. W. S c h u im e y e r F. J . S olon , J r . W. C . S t r e i b G. W; W r ig h t, M.D.
A t t a c h e d f o r y o u r in f o r m a t io n i s a c o p y o f 0SH F i e l d Memorandum # 7 4 -9 2 , s u b j e c t - t r e m o l i t e and t a l c .
A ttach.
DEPOSITION EXHIBIT "'l
-a '
CRMC-ELS-004574 1
<s -. u :
The a tta ch ed l e t t e r ir o n Assi- nt S ecreta ry o f lab or John H,
fifccnder g iv e s fu rth e r p o lic y c, d c lin e s in regard t o tr e n o litr
and t a lc th a t are n ot asbesH o r fib rou s.
2 . P o lic y Changer .
In o rd er -to b e con sidered asbasfciform o r fib r o u s th e fo llo w in g c r i t e r i a v o l i b e u sed by th S a l t l a t e c i t y lab oratory o f OSEA:
A. P a r tic le s must appear to be fibrous rather than as cr y sta ls
or clivers.
*
.
B . The maximum diam eter o f a f i b e r t o b e counted i s 3 m icrons.
. Ci The maximum le n g th o f a fib e r ^ to Be counted i s 30 jnicrons.
D. The len g th t o width r a tio must be 5 o r more to l r th a t i s , `
. 5 tim es o r more longer than w id e.
.
i
E. The separate or individual fib e r s must contain f i b r i l s or
'
-tiie "bundle o f stick s" e f f e c t , u n le ss th ey ore a t a n o n -.
d iv i s i b le sta g e . A f i b r i l cannot be subdivided and would
be counted, i f i t meets th e oth er c r it e r ia . The e le c tr o n
; !
m icroscope may be used t o prove th e fib r o u s nature o f t t e
:
p a r t i c l e s . The len g th t o w idth r a t io o f 5 or more to 1 _
'
i s n ot meant to irtpiy th a t other p a r tic le s are not hazardous.
I
3 . Sample C o lle c t io n and Subm ission:
.
H
I f t h e Compliance S a fe ty and H ealth O ffic e r (CSKO) i s reasonab ly
. sure th a t the ta lc or trem olite i s fibrous or asbestiform , he
w i l l sample fo llo w in g th e OSHA Sampling Data Sheet 2 f o r a s b e s t o s .
CRMC-ELS -004575 i- :
f* .
. V'
/* i." *.**
.
>
In a l l o th e r can es for. t a l c o r tr e m o lito , he w i l l (1) sample:
fo llo w in g th e Sampling Data S heet #.'? fo r a sb e sto s and (2) sample
<; J * : ;.. "
:
using th e m idget ircpingee fo r non-arbestiform , non-fibrous t a lc
I
o r tr e m o litc . When iropinger samples are tak en , an a i r sample
.
mast bo c o lle c t e d fo llo w in g OSHA Sampling Data S heet &3 fo r
. '
c r y s ta llin e s i l i c a fo r determining ih e p ercait. quarto a t th e
.
S a lt Lake C ity OSHA L aboratory..
. '
I
. Midget im pinger sam ples must bo analyzed w ith in 24 hours a f t e r
;
w l l c c t i p n for the results to bo v a lid . T herefore, arrange, (.into
I
' must b e made by th e Industrial H y g ien ist w ith a lo c a l lab oratory
" j
concerning th e a n a ly se s p r t .. t o malting th e in sp e c tio n . These
it
..sam ples a r e n o t to be sen t :'n th e 0,'lHA lab oratory, S a lt LaKe^City;
'
ffiey" w i l l n o t be analyzed"': -r e ... Xi: th e In d u str ia l H y g ien ist i s
.
ce rta in - th a t the. t a lc or to d a te xs asbestiform or fib ro u s,
'
iropinger sam ples may be an il l f r a i th e in s p e c tio n s .
.
' j
.
4. R esu lts and In ter p r eta tio n
. .
,
'
; * j . . j
(1) "R esults frcm th e
:.ampxes v 5 ill b e used i f th e t a l c
o r tr e m p lite i s non-asbestiform . o r r o n -fib r e u s. Table G-3
o f 1910.93 vo u ld /a p p ly . The Time .Weighted Average
fo r ta lc or trem olite that i s rnn-asbestiform , hon-fibrous
i s 20 m illio n s o f p a rticle s per cubic fo o t o f a ir by the
l i g h t r f i e l d cou n t method.
.....
-- c '1
. .
'
,
j
j
(2) The lab oratory m i l g iv e two r e s u lt s fo r th e t a l c o r t r a r o lit a
(
J
th a t i s asb estiform or- fib r o u s subm itted fo r a n a ly se s o f
.a s b e s to s . One f o r d e f i n i t e asb estiform f ib e r s m eeting th e
.-j.
c r i t e r i a o f S o r more t o 1 and one fo r th o se i erb cir.eeting
th e o ld e r a sb esto s c r it e r ia , namely th o se p a r tic le s having a
le n g th t o w idth. r a t io o f 3 o r snare to 1 . Samples having a
5 o r more to i len g th to width r a tio and meeting th e other
c r i t e r i a o f paragraph..#2 P o l i o / Change would mean t h a t
.
1fib r o u s o r asb eS tiforfr t a l c : o r t r e r o i i t e i s p r e se n t: T here- .
.-'fore,, tjie, standard fo r ja sb e sto s, 1910.93a, would apply.
T his guidance i s .temporary .and may change a s a r e s u l t o f fiM ir ig s frcm
an on-go`irg' NIOSH stu d y o n 't i ii s 's u b je c t.
\
t '1
fI * f
.v\> ;i
CRMC-ELS-004576 fii i
3 '~
t o y q u e stio n s m y b e d ir e c te d t o Mr. C harles McClure, D iv isio n o f O ccupational H ealth Programming, O ccupational S a fety and H ealth ^.T m inistration, Washington, D. C. 2210, telephone 202-961-2726,
^ ( Itd cS /? C Jso-'
Barry J . VJhite
'
.
A ssociate A ssistan t Secretary
f o r R egional Programs
Attachment
CRMC-ELS-004577
,\
July 29,-1971
., .i /-"1 *
Hr. John Marshall Purchasing Department General E lectric Coopany Small Steam Turbine D ivision 166 Broad S treet Fitchburg, Maea. 01420
Dear Mr, Mar*hatlj
* i i -i -i tji
' i .. 1 t ' t
fleeontly you requeatad toxl<
al data concerning our JohnaManvtlle >. < .
products Themobeaton and Supuren.
It is a pleasure to provide you with the following Information.
Our Thertnobestos product now contains lasa than 77, Chryaotlla Asbestos. Other ingredients Include Hydrated Lime.and Natural Dlatomaceoua Barth.
Buperex product now contain lesa than 107. Chrysotlle and Amoaita Asbestos. `
Other ingrediente Include Magnesia Carfapnate, Bentonite, and Calcined
_ ,'/
Diotomnceous Earth.
The Threshold Limit Value for Asbestos, as prescribed by the Federal
Occupational S afetyan d Health Act, Federal Register, Volume 36,/ Humber
A-
105, Part I I , la 1 2 /fib res,p er m i l l i l i t e r o f a i r , greater,than -5 microns,
in length or 2 m illion r a r tic le s per cubic foot of. a ir . Fibres per m lllllltee^ i!;^ '|
are determined by the' sbrnne f i l t e r method at 430X phase'contrast magnifi
cation . M illions o p a r tic le s per cubic foot are based on impingar samples &'!'
counted by lig h t - f ie ld technlcn.
Health problems nnnoctnted w ith Asbestos /uc dorc-tltnc r e la te d . They occur only a fte r Inhalation o exceaslvc concentrations o f Asbeatos dust over a period o f many y ea rs.
A abentos-contalnlng thermal In su la tio n product# can be handled and used a s fe ly . Simple precautionr to control airborne dust to vilthin the allowable threshold lim it v a lu e during I n s ta lla tio n should be taken. Once in p la c e , the m a teria l p resen ts no h e a lth problem.
.iohna-M envllle Is producing tnetal-ort and molded f i t t i n g s to reduce dust
exposure during a p p lic a tio n . T su ggest you dieciina those products with
our salea representative,
C R M C -ELS-004561 rw .
Ir. John Mnrnhall
July 20, 1071
Through our National In su lation Manufacturers A ssociation, ve havei prepared Recommended Health 8aety P ractices booklets for handling and applying In su lation products containing Asbestos, a lso those containing mineral fib res. These booklets Include sp e c ific recommendations for c o n tr o llin g airborne contaminant to within allowable lim it*.
I so en clo sin g capias o f each o f the NIMA booklets, plus a copy of our Safe P ractices booklet fo handling Asbestos fib re. In addition,
attached ora phpora e n title d ; 'Asbestos and Human Health, "Asbestos and the G eneral.Public" , and, "Asbestos - A Family o f Minerals".
I f you require any addition-' assistan ce, please contact >
mr-tion, or X can be o f further
Very tru ly yours,
C. I.. S h cck lcr Manager, Accident Prevention end Health Administration
cc: M. W. B urleson R. A, S ta p le to n C. E. E rnst S. A. Tompkins
CRMC-ELS-004562
I
.30 W in field S tr e e t Norwalk, C onnecticut 08855
Pear Mr. V an d erb ilt:
This i s in r e p ly t o your lo tt- >C Septanber _26, con cern in0g? yho' ur requ est fo r r e l i e f from .th e ash t:os standard fo r your t a l c s co n ta in in g n o n -fib r o u s tr e u o liti a c t ia o l i t e , and a n th o p h y llite .
^ fritter o f August 6 Stated
..>a-;br.ous or pjpu'lgbiestiform .
i n era ls such as- ^oft-as^e^iforw . .ircmolite are not
citope of the a sb esto s standard and, th erefo re, the .ptoyisiririS
of that standard do not apply to ta lc containing non-sbestiform
iSfoaerals.
'
`
NIOSH i s c u r r e n tly conducting a thorough in v e s tig a tio n in t o the
ex a c t m in erals to which t a l c workers were exposed in th o se
`
stu d ies where a sb e s to s is or other adverse m edical e f f e c t s were found.
Pending th e r e c e ip t and. ev a lu a tio n by OSM o f th e rep o rt by. NIQSli
on th is in v estig a tio n * i f you h a v e 's c ie n tific evidence th at the
m
n a tu r a lly o ccu rrin g t a l c s , p rior to p rocessin g by m illin g - or
cru sh in g, do not con tain fibrous or asbestirbrm- tr C n o lite ,
a n to p h y llite, a c tin o lite or other asbesriforn m inerals, you
say c e r tify to your customers that the ta lc does not con tain
asbestos.
.
-xli
F ib ro u s, a S b e stifo r a m in erals such as fibrous tr e m o lite means
n a tu r a lly occu rrin g a sb estiform m inerals which p rio r to or a fte r
c r u sh in g and p r o c e s s in g , c o n ta in fib e r :; made up o f f i b r i l s .
S in c e r e ly ,
/a/ John H. Stender ..V
John H. Stender _ A ssista n t S ecretary o f Labor
CRMC-ELS-004581
31
31 Tv
rsi^ssE S-.t^ ^sE
l-" S O \\> S
.*/ *_*.* .\ ft w 3
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UNITED STATES ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20460 .
% 0 JUN 1973
Mr- A lle n Harvey
P atent and L egal Department
R. I , V an d erb ilt C o ., In c.
33 W infield S tr e e t
E ast Norwalk, Conn. 06855
Dear Mr. llarvey:
T h is in l i t 'as in i a b ility of the asbestos m illin g operations.
use to your inquiry a s to. th e ,a p p li- . ..i M ,,ardous a ir p o llu ta n t standard to t a lc "
'The proposed N a tio n a l Em ission Standards fo r Hatardous A.ix '
P o llu ta n ts. (HESHPS) d efin ed a sb esto s w i l l as a .fa c ility .-; engaged-
in the. co n v ersio n o f a sb e sto s -ore, in to canmercialT:asi>djitdb,i
i t has been determined that ta lc m illin g does ndt f it - t h is -
-,
d e f i n i t i o n , th e a sb e sto s standards do not apply t o :;th is op eration .
In a d d itio n , i t has been determined that the asbestds"standards
do not apply to any m anufacturing.processes that use.commercial .
or in d u s tr ia l t a lc as an in gred ien t (u n less asb estos as-d efin ed .
by 40 CFR 6 1 .2 1 , w ith the above ex cep tio n , i s used i n the p r o c e s s ).
I t should- he noted th a t 40 CFR 61, NESHAPS, w i l l b e . amended -
in order to properly c la r ify th is situ ation .
.
...
S in c e r e ly ,
D irector, D ivision of Stationary Source Enforcement
deposition
EXHIBIT
td jg r.
: '.*i,' !i C R M C -E L S -004613
-------------- -
m
f >
Johns-Mar>ville
- ../(/
"0 //.v
Internal Correspondence
To: M. A. B a lo g a - 4N
Date: J u ly 2 2 , 1974
Trow R. K. Comann - 4S
Copfeo:
Subject:
W. 1 . V a n D er b e ek , R. G. R ie d e , 0 . E . H i l l i e r , . G. L. S w a llo w , W. B . R e i t z e , F i l e , C hrono
SEMI-ANNUAL INDUSTRIAL. HYGIENE SURVEY - TALC PLANTS RE: YOUR LETTER JUNE 1 8 , 19.74
As y o u '
ou r m ost r e c e n t su rv ey s i t e d a number o f
-
m r Los A n geles P la n t as b e in g o v er th e
o f ...
o r 2 .0 F/CC f o r t a l c d u s t . B a sed on t h i s
su rvey we ;e t a k in g im m e d ia te s t e p s t o c o r r e c t t h e
s i t u a t i o n s o a s t o b e i n c o m p lia n c e w it h t h e 1 9 7 2 OSHA
Standards m entioned in your June 18 l e t t e r . However, in
Mr. F . J . S o lo n 's l e t t e r o f J u ly 1 5 , 1 9 74, t h e r e i s an
E nvironm ental A ffa ir s C h e c k list w hich s ta te s -the fo llo w in g :
N o. 1 1 . MESA T a l c S ta n d a r d
mesa h aa a n n o u n ced t h a t i t i s p la n n in g A j o i n t study,
w i t h NIOSH t o d e t e r m in e t h e t o x i c i t y o f T a l c and T rem b lite d u st ex p osu re. U n til th e study i s com pleted t h e t h r e s h o l d l i m i t v a l u e s (TLV) p u b l i s h e d i n t h e 1 9 7 3 e d it io n o f th e Am erican C on feren ce o f .G overnm ental I n d u s t r i a l H y g i e n i s t s (ACGIH) w i l l b e u s e d t o m ea su re and r e g u l a t e t a l c e x p o s u r e . MESA o f f i c i a l s h a v e d e t e r m in e d , as a r e s u l t o f t h e May 1973 P u b l i c T a lc . Sym posium , t h a t T a lc and T e r m o lite exp osu re a re n o t as hazardous as C h rysotile or o th er tru e asb estos m in erals. Thus, a r e v ise d T alc standard can w a it u n til th e jo in t stu d y is f in is h e d .. .probably se v e r a l y ea rs.
i
^ W h a t d o es t h i s mean t o us? Are we s t i l l g o in g t o b e
req u ired to reduce our in -p la n t T alc d u st to 10.0 or 2.0
. I 1 1 F/CC? S in c e we a r e p la n n in g , som e r a th e r e x p e n siv e
`
appropri at i ons very soon to c o r r e c t our d u st problem s, i t
i s e s s e n t i a l th a t we know w hat sta n d a rd s we are g o in g t o
be req u ired to m eet.
.
!-
P le a se ad v ise r ig h t away.
'i
l
DEPOSITION EXHIBIT
Vn-I
I
I I
_ jc2 S -- r
I
CRM C-ELS-004622