Document XLgwJxQrYddR0XpzRvOXELzd

OMW.CtfmfeNtiT atarntm Nay 23, 1974 T..* Asusro Nr. Charloa t. Laafely Calaaaaa Corporatloa S22 - 5th Abm 1m Tort, XT 10034 Daar Mr. Lasblyt Nr. aaitaa aakad aa to forward tha attaehad to yoo and aapraaa hit apologlaa la tha dalay. Mary traly yean. Saerotary to V. I. Naltsa Naaafar, hoetdaat Pravaatloa aad Zadoatrlal Naalth Attaehaaat 004387 100040.0 a - and the ixcmi vu United largely to asbestosis, expected; oancerof gastrointestinal tract, a aodest increase, three tines increase only, unexpected, and as Dr. Doll has poiatad out, eaaoar of tha lung, enthrothorasic caaoar; whereas thara should hava been or 7 canoexs occurring, 45 actually did. Mev uo wars wrong, as Z say, bscausa wa too couldn't answer how each of this eaaoar rssultad fron an aaoass, a larga excess of over-e^oeuxe. a didn't know whether tha asbestos insulation workers in Saw fork ware hawing 1,000 tines or 10,000 tines or 100 tines or 10 tinea wore than they needed to be inflicted with this disease. So that in 19(4, wa were in the sane position that Dr. Doll wan in tan years previously. Icwever, a good deal had been learned during the tine of the first report in 1935 by Dr. lynch and the 19(0's when we began to find this, and the nest lapertant thing that becane dear in those years was that as Ben Farris said yesterday, everything that happened with asbestos tended to take nore than 20 years to bscans evident. For enanple, those data of a study of ours in Saw York where we at a thousand asbestos insulation workers, of the 725 nitii loss than 20 years free onset of etpsonre, snot had nenal S-rays and whan they were sbnomal they tend to he iiy so. On the other hand, with nore than 20 years v ttm onset, the najority had sbnomal X-rays and not infrequently tha dsnoraality was considerable. The second iaportaat thing 004389 1000(2.0 -3 learned vii that the nasothellal surfaces not infrequently beeeam involved and nobody raally knows why yet,as John Ufa has just shewn os# pisural plagooa warn eoMonly soon not infrequently. This was wocy esteneive -- wan fatal. Xn sooh eases tha plaques anoatlnas baeaaa calcified, and these too obey the twenty year rain. Of the 725 with less than 20 years from onset' aost of then had a normal pleura on X-ray. After that point f however, the ^ pleura was frequently abnormal with either fibrosis or calcification. Zf the pleural plaques were largely on the parietal pleural and sometimes .the pleura net only Showed fibrosis and calcification but showed neoplasia -- in other words mesothelioma. in our aqperieaoe in any rate so far. these haws been invariably fatal, fhe mseotbeliun of the abdomen too. of duriaq tha aarly IMO'a beytaniaf in 1*50 and in itlO's became apparently involved and in the eaeellsnt papers of Snticknap and tmither the frequency of sooh peritoneal iawolwamsnt was eapbaslsed. fhe dirroiaasss again earn be well demonstrated in any laparotomy. Za our own stadias the i^ortanoe of the mesothelioma was no clearly soon in the 370 survivors of the original 032 group. On Jmiunry 1/1*03 our prospect of observation through Fa rosier 31, 1*71 has shown that long csneer, as ea^ected, is marksdly increased whereas totally there should have bean 5 deaths there were 10d -- twioe as may asbestos worfcon 004390 died as wore aspected to die daring that period' age' year and ass specific rates'of course. Wiarsss there should have a .1 00003.0 i bMB S deaths of lung c--oar, there were actually 42, bat interestingly u has boon just Mfbulud, tho aesothall--as, pleural aad perltooeal, bogaa to bo oooa with increasing frequency. Tho sa-- --dost increase la gastrointestinal eoaeor aad, of course, daatha of aaboatoala. as have pot oe tbia alido o --tire o^oxioaeo with this taw lock City group from '43 thsoogh '71, aad it's ovidoat that ia this particular group ooa out of every 5 deaths aaoag those % asbestos insulation workers has beea due to bronchogenic oarcln--a. to--whore around one out of 20 deaths has beea doe to aooothelio-- , spproai--tely one out of 10 to g--troiatestiaal e--oar, and approxlaately one out of IS to sab--tools. There was a possibility that the V-- lock e^erienoe was ualqwsi therefore, we haws undertaken a second study ia which ca January 1# 1H7, those are new data which base not yet be-- published. On January 1, 1017, -- registered every single uni-- lasulati-- worker ia the country. There ware 17,000 a-- ia the uni-- -- that day. That's about a can-third i--U or a --e out of four staple of all the lasulati-- workers ia the country, tad -- haws foil--ed then sad the-- data reflect what hqp--sfl to the 17,100 a-- through Do--*ar 31, 1971. Aad although it's a asch younger group ooataiaiag, -- Z say, all angers of the uni--, ev-- those i \ who wore ia tho uai-- only a year -- tan -- Ion, -- had vary aneh the saae results. There should haws be-- age, year, sad sex specific 44 deaths of hr--dogsale oarda--a --d 100004.0  bosh** Two boats burst amidst our thinking. An first ona from Dr. Wagner. Chris Wagner roportsd in 1990 that whoross all of us wars sowing wary few neaothaUomaa, wo at Mt. Sinai saw throo in 30 years from 1930 to 1M0. o raportod 47 eaaos of mMOthelloma all in tho oorthwoatarn portion of tho Capo Provinca, a placo wharo thoxo's much in tha v^f of eroeidolita ninos and mills, and in 45 of tha 47, thora bad boan potontial aabastoo oootaet. mall, this waa no surprise. Ms had had a nofeor of rsporta of asbastos and aoaothalioma but what was interacting was that in many of those people thora had boon no occupational closure. Those ware people who lived in tho household of an aabastoo worker or along tho road along which tbs donkey carts ware taking tbs bags to tbs aill. following these data Holley mswheusa reported in 19IS that she looked at tbs histories of interviewing tha people of tho 7f eases of mesothelioma in tho files of a London hospital, bad sura enough, 31 out of tbs 71 bad worked with ashestoo. from tho 45 Act had not, 9 bad simply lived household of a> asbestos worker, and of the M who neither worked with asbestos nor lived with sons on who method with asbestos, 11 had sl^ly lived within one-half mils of m asbestos plant* This than raised for tbs first tiM tbs inportanoa of "light closure*. I really don't know what "light' means and X don't know what "heavy" moans. This is snought to cause mesothelioma. Or. Liabon in fennsylvania 004393 looted at tte assothalloaas ia tte flit* of tte ttato tealth Dspartaaat, ad of th* 42 euu ttera, 20 hod vetted with asbestos. But of tte 22 who had not, eight ted siaply lived la tte how* la tte tflghhorhood within half alia of aa asteoto* plaat aad thraa had lived la tte heoaahold of aa astesto* waiter. At this point tte saoood bote borat aad it waa a golat soonest aad* la that papar by Or. larrlaa who la ter* with us today, and looking at tte aateato* dlaaaaa altoatioa of tte Davenport Dock yard, te reported that la addition to eaaa of assottelloaa tear* war* fiat patlata with aabaatoaia; tear* war* flv* with aaaottelloaa at tte Davenport Dock yard that te know boat. Wall, this a lav weald eaaoa a great otir, specially whoa rapidly his otearvatlona war* oonfiraad by otters la Britain-- Nhltwall, teOwn, lapplaaton and otters and slssteara. tew this raised tte gaastlon that wa as* dlsoosslag bora at this nesting, fte prtelaa of ladlzaet asposur* as X'va board today a vary cote phrasa "Or lispin'* bystaadar dlaaaaa ia shipyards", tte iaportaao* of this to as ote bn dsanstrated bars, te ia tte felted nates had a aaall telpballdiag ladostry bstwai tea two world wars, te yon know, tea Sritish ahlpboildieg ladostry was reactivated voted li31*1922. te did not begin to rebuild oar shipbuilding ladostry until 1940. te saployad around 79,900 ate at any oaa tins fxca 1922 to 1940. teM tte shipbuilding Industry 004394 100*07.0 began again is fall Monaco la 1140# va vent tp to a very neb larger natter# and this U graph of thoaa on tho eaat ooot# tho watt ooaat# and# of eoorae# the gulf eoaat# and tho Great lakoa araa. a had also# ctartlag aroond 42# 43# no bego to aaploy a fair nober of voaan d Dr. Hake told oa yeaterday that at tha yard that ba vo at thara eoaetlnaa raaehad aa aaay aa alaoat 1/3 of tha voxk forea. Only 1 of S00 vo a pipa eovarar, vo aa iaaolatioa vorkar. All tha otbar tradaa taro bara# bat than you eenalder that happaaad ia tha hold of a ahlp# tha Iaaolatioa torfcar vaa obtionaly aorroonded by all tha otbar tradaa# alaetrleiaaa# ataaa fittara# ate. thara vaa a hoga tnxaover doriag tha war# approximately 100% a year# and aa a raaolt# va had ia thia eoontry 4% aillioo people# may vaanc# vho vorkad at aona tiaa or mother ia ear ahipyarda ia lorld War XI from 1040*1149# reaching a art-- at tha and of 1043. hall# ia thia a hoard? Mall# Z'll ahov yoa aona of ov atvdias that are trying to gat aona information on thia. e firat foond ont that kind of inamlatien thaaa paepla maad# and it vaa made by by and largo. 1 levy in 103S#iaeidontaUy. vith regard to tho gnaation df orocidolita# tha a^arionoo that __ v Z'va Jot ahovn yoa ho nothing vhataoevar to do vith orocidolita vhich va didn't von ia thia oooatry at all in verb, to tho a^artooa of Inaalatioa voxkara ho netting to do vith eroddolito. ontil arood 1039# it vaa otiraly ohryaotile. a hago to no aona oooito in 193* 004395 1000M.D 10- of assothellra. MS got the rtoordi oat bat when we iaqoirod about bin, bis wife wrote os about another tragedy, sad this Was a tragedy that you sm on tbs screen aow. Ibis was his daughter, young child who bad newer, of course, worked la tbs factory or say factory aad sba was found to bawa a plooral plaque aot too wall saaa of calcified plaqoa. Three yaars latar sba developed nssothelicns wd died, sad Mrs. Xwrote os that bar only ooataet with this particular insulation was that tbs chiaf aagiaaar would bring hone tbs products proudly to show bis fsadly what ha bad iaasatad and tbs kid bad playad with then oa tbs dining rooni tabla. a this is a aosothaliona that wa saw asst. Ibis was tba Plant Manager. Mr. Shutt, ia bis prawious X-ray bad baaa aoxaal. Ms than looksd at to saa bow sach of this notarial would bo aaoassary to causa assotheliona or ether eaaoars or other isease, aad 1 will now show you eons aow data oa this studr ia progrsas, sad* of course, has aot boon published. Mb bows aow awl aad 200 fanily aaabars of tba aan aad wosnn -- so woshad ia this factory during *41f *42. Thaos ara tba wiwos and ohildrao who liwed with than froiMd of period 1941-1949# and ms is our analysis of tbs first 119 eases wa'we scan. Ms bans found that 401 bows X-ray awidsnoa of paraataral mi/oz pleural disaass. fhsso wars sisply fanily nsafcers of . paopla who worked ia that factory. Ms haws trad it that wiwos, sens, daughters, siblings, ptxeats in abent tba sans proportion. So that it did net take naoh of this particular dost of this particular Material of anoeite asbestos, and 004397 10M7..0 11 these ir the typical thing* v* haw* found as Dr. idga ha* shewn you this___ ,__ plaque. .These, people art..___, incidsntal sun /this cm. At ninintl asbsstosis vs found occasionally and tha plaural plaquss that you sat host. This stody is still in progress as Z say. Is has* looked at it another way, and again* these data ha/a not bean published. 1 thought you night be inteieatad in than. In the lev Tort City group when ve eranInert these people, the history was obtained whether or not they worked in shipyards. Mow these are all insulation workers. Approximately one-third newer worked il ia a shipyard* ooe-thisd vent up to two years* and one-third worked for 3 or 4 years in shipyards, low these were all people of the sane city and the sane union -- all insulation workers* and their lung cancer rates* their aesotheliooa rates were wary anch the sane. We haw* also locked at it another way. Za the Motional Survey we're doing fron *47-'71 we haws analysed the Onion's experience by whether or not the sen were registered in locals in the aidweet* in the central states* and prasunably without any shipyard e^erlenee* and those registered in shipyard locals. Thar* has besn no difference in the rata* of wortmea in shipyards or not in shipyards, lew we saw our first nssnHiaHnna in a shipyard worker in ISIS* Dr. Sdga saw his first one in 19M. Z thldt that Dr. lorries reported that he saw his first one * in Davenport la 1SC4. low the British ejqperleaee is about five, sis* seven years before ours, they began their shipyard work about that length of tins before we did. a didn't m. M<r wk i> tk. Mr s* kif*u4 --ottiiHn.. <*" the past year or two. low we're seeing one roughly 100071.0 u azoDd om every two weeks. I have bo idea bow aaay thoro are* but it' soaswhere around in oar experience t thi* tlaa about on* and two wooka aad bow nasy tboro ro la tbo ooantxy wo don't know, i'll show yon soon of oar rooont cuts to down this presentation. This la a an who workad -- tbasa aro all naenthsllonaa. A nan who workad for two yoara la tha Brooklyn laey Tarda aa aa ' electrician, 1*43. thia la a yoon woaaa who workad for ala woaka la tbo Bingham fblpyard la Beaton while aba waa going to aebool. iba waa a college atndant. Za raaponaa to patriotic appeal* abe worked for ala woaka at tbo llnghaa Shipyard aa a pipe oooaror. Thia la a nan who worked aa aa engineer for two yoara la Mayor Zalaad la Baa Praaelaoo. Thia la a aaa who workad aa a abaot natal worker -- Thaaa are all aaaotbellowaa -- at the Bethlehem yard la the law York area* The next two eeaee z now hare at life. Slaai. Thaaa are two pefeiaata that Z left at the boapltal whan Z oho oat bare. Thia la a yoong woaaa* not a yonay woaaa* She'a St z think -- Sally* Or. Cooper kaowa thia patient wall* She la the wife of a good friend of Or. Cooper's* hero in tha aaooad row* if yon wait to know aona detaila aboafe bar* She waa perfectly wall. She worked at Z. MHwla la fcaa Praadaoo. Sawaral aontha ago* aha underwent a roofeiae store phyaioal. la toanraal X-ray was found. She wont to bar private physiol* ifto did a -- *d be oene 004399 100*72.0 -13- tack late bar rooa, aad ha said ally, X'vo gctaoaa bad mw- than la aoaa problaa,* aad aba aald "kail X know chat X'va get. I've got aaaotbalioaa*, eta said, lha told him that for II aoathe, '43 to *5, aha tad worked at aa Oakland, California ahipyard aad tbaa went tack to bar elarleal work. Aad thla la bar aaaotbalioaa at tha praaaat tint, nd aha la now at Mt. tlaal la ear enorlaeatal ebaaotherapy prograe. Another patlaat we aew have la the * boapltal la a weaaa who never tad any work of any klad otter tbaa elarleal work, fte developed a dlcaeca la 1971. A blopey waa done aad plaoral aaaotbalioaa waa feoad. Am had ao aabeatoe enoeore. Checking her hiatory, however, aha waa feoad to have been aarrled la *42 to a aaa who waa a cheat aetal worker at tha Sea Shipyard la Cheater, fcaaaylveaia. for thoea two yaara/aba waahad hla elethaa aad aha deeeribed eealag heat with thla white doat ever hla elethaa, which aha than waahad, aad thla la bar aaaotbalioaa, aad `ahe'a aaw beglaalag to go down hill after a good portion of thane laet IS acaths . or ao. Oh,thla waa a an that X aaw three yaara age. A 30 year old aaa with thla aeeotfiaHnaa. X oooldn't find eat whan he get hla cAicctna arpoawrw bacaaaa at 3S yaan eld when diftte gat lt7 hi took a eanfol hlatecyr of oeona. a wm tan da tall Street, lived than for a year aad thaa evad for If yaan to VUaca Straat aadSaaha got aarrled. Ill ife aald "hall, wa can't live aroend hen. ha'va 004400 I4M79.D # IS- 9m asbestos workers .... Z think z ought to introduce ayself. Too ought to kivw m by aov. z think oftor tho loot tvo doctor*, Dr. Solikoff and tho doctor fro* Cnglend gave thoir presentations -- *heir excellent prosootatieo* **.i -- X voold liko to aasvor o little hit to Dr. Boll of hi* prsemtation yootordoy. I voold like to My tho following in regard to hi* very interesting paper. Bomb soneral. ZX-4, ho stated that tha Division of Occupational Boalth oad Pollution Control haa boilt op a reputation for iapartiality. z think ia hi* oaao it'* tins to baeoM partial. Z'a not eritieisiag Or. Ball, I'a eritidaiag the ooapany. I think it'* tiao they h*o-- partial. 9m aany health prctleM they have ariaiag fron lack of ooMnnication, to ba blaaad on look of ooano&ieatloa and onaatiafaetory anployar and oaployaa ralatiooahip*, and look of )ob satisfaction. This, ia ay opinion, is tho fault of both lover and upper supervision. Soanvboro along tha lino, if tha mb are that -- and their aorale is that lov, tha eupervielon is wrong, this is all Z oan say about this if tha Boralo ia that lov. Z knew v* have aany prthlsM hero tmi^r and va'vo goMovar naay pcoblaM. Also in bis slide ha m hasarde iavolvad far clean-up work. Bxpoaed dry laaolatida on oailiags, the aoa of sprayed vat asbootoo ia group workers, tha cutting of aabaatoa sheets ia open air and power operated hand saws ia cabinets of ao kasards. 004402 100*75 .D II- X think nftnc tha two prasontations thin naming, X think thnt iMneci hnn an awful lot to loan and as was put so aptly by Ds. Solikoff this warning, if x Was a businoss agaat as X vn in Tolado, Ohio for If yoars, if X was a businoss agant in Australia, thars wouldn't ba ooa nan working in thosa yards. lboso gatss would ba bloekad tight ovary aomlng. X thank you for your tiaa. 004403 100074.0 f (Tap* 1 - tid* B) 17- Could you repeat that plaaaa? 0* T*a, what oounant would you hat* to aaka, aad X would Ilka to ash or. larrias if ho has a**o any Mary people datalcp any of thaaa syaptOM who probably work around this stuff for yaars. JL X think parhapa Or. larrias will b* abls to aaswar that * ia groat datall. Ma hava studlad th* non-toty parsooaol. X did Motion yaatarday that all of th* Msotbalionas that X saw at th* insd Forcaa Inatituta of Pathology war* in spirals. X didn't aaa ooa in a general, that's baeausa tba paopl* who war* not, X saw tbair sparinana ia WO or so, 30 yaars bafora thay war* lioutaaant junior grad*, in tba angina room th* ganarak X aspect war* bating a good tiM on som of fch* any peats. fi 0. Or. larrias, you ear* to fiald that? 0. Thank you. Ha art nosing aabastos diaaana ia tba laral personnel. But wa hata a problan, and X asawM that you hate tha mm problan in your ooontxy that ear total f--rotira young so that m w* aaa fron Or. Sallkoff'a v wonderful presentation, those diaattaa occur after a period of 20 yaars. to that by the tiM tha nan oqms to rotira, ha hasn't got any sign of the disease, and they're occurring after thsy taka v other aaployaant. to that thay 004404 100t77.D tad with choaetharapy 1m u able to 90 book to work for year and half. What we bad deno vaa to grow aeaothalloa* oalla in eall culture and than taat variooa battarlaa of chaaotbaraputlc agent* againat the apadflc call Uaaa of tha apadfle patlaota. Wa had alao grown thla la baaatar ehaak pooehaa and had need tha aaa* approach. a ara bow with Or. lollaad who has com to a* froa RoawaU Park, * have now begun a program of arpariaantal rhoantharapy with acao wary lataraatiag maw droga. One, for ample, that la apedfically oaafol la teaora that prodaea nuoooa oa paopla polyaacarldaa. We.don't know whathar thla la going to be effective bare, fhare la a reoaat aarlaa froe Manorial loepltal of parltoeeal aaeothalloaa, gi*a* fall abdominal radiation, d seemed quite heroic, bet they have five patieeta novwho have, one haa gone 10 yeara and tha fear other* have goaa free 5 to 10 yeara, and they did not do their petlaat* any hare. Z aaw one patlaat with ahdowinal aooothslloM aeat a* from Waahlngtoo. Be waa 00a of tha eaaoatlvea of Soya of haarlca and ha had aoaa shdoalnal twilai la weat Into Qaorgetown loapltal. fee next thing ha 1am after tha operation vaa the yoeng Intern can over to hla and said "Man have yen worked with aabeotoo? * le v eald ! alaoot fell oat of the bod." Sm intern had aeea tha Ada. Zt vaa a peritoneal aaaothelloaa and, of eonraa, ho had vorfead whan he vaa in Oaraaay la 1921 with aahoatoa. 004406 town.o .-20 Wall# ha vaa traatad at Gaorgatovn loapital with fall abdoadnal radial tharapy, and ha alao vaa abla to lira thraa yaara vhieh vaa longer than oar peritoneal aaaothelloau go* there ia a poaaibility oar inanotherapy people, va have than looking at thia alao, ara tolling oa that they night not ba abla to handla tha bnga aooont of aaaotballona that'a praaant in a ehaat or an abdoMn and tbay hart raiw--nilail that va oonaidar oo^lnad aorgieal and lannologieal and/or choaotharapotic approachaa ao that tha eanear ohaaotharapy aight have a ehanea ia tbaao patianta. Me ara alao aagagad ia a, aorry to giva yea ao aaay of thaaa tharapotie approachea* bat va don't know vhieh ia going to vorfc and ao va ara trying all at tha aaaa tiaa. Ma hava a vary activa prograa going baaad open tha oboervationa of tehlipoolor ia Oaraaay vith only and oxide and ailiea to aaa vhathor va aight ba abla to iaaetiviata doat that ia alraady in tiaaoa ia lg or ia ethar tiaaoaa, and ia tha toat trte va ara vail abla nov, va baton a varlaty of chartrale that oan inactivate tha aarfaoa of aabeatoo, tha variona Undo of aobaatoo fibara boaolitie toot ayatana and ethar taat eyataae, and va ara nov going into tha aaiaal nodal, thia ia alao a poaaibla approach, to that va hava, va'ra looking at a anfter of diffarant vaya of appwanhfng thia and Z hava ay fiagora eroaaad. Z hopa that ana or aoro of than ia going to ba abla to aolva thia pzoblan vhieh otharviaa, *"004407 ia no aolotion 100000.0 .-ax- 0. Dr. Schnldt -- x ham two qoMtiooa. 0oe, ainee haring be-- dlagaoaed, has anycoo op to now reached the fire year lerel? l--ter one, water two -- xa tteso any emanation aa to why, mo on tho aotor eapoeare aoat paepla aoeaiagly ara predlspoaed to aaaothelio--? A. Stem ia a Preach papar which la onpebliahad, which waa 4 p--wanted at thair lloa Coafaranoa in June. Xt waa a conference on diaaaaaa of tha plearal ia which cm of thair tea-therapy tmatad aaaothaXicma haa 900a fire yaara. It waa a wary, wary long tor. Sowerar, and 1 dea't know wtethar you ooald eradit tte ch--otherapy with thia beceaae acmtla-- wa aaa patiaata going thma aootha aad a eaaa of patiaata withowt any tzeataant laat for thno yaara aad foor yaara. so that x don't know how to 09: tin thia Praach report, aad I'm jaat gir-- you tte report with rafard to radialtharapy. Wa ham ooo otter oaao ia oar hoapitaX ia which fail cheat radial tterapy waa yiwoa following eargezy to a doetor'a wife X year and a half apo aad ao far ter X-ray loeka perfectly aoraaX. So we have ear fiayara ereaaad kaita. Aad why doaa reXatiweXy light e^poaam, United erpoaare prodana thia t--or? tell, tte eaaear people, tte oardeepen--la people, are ioad of talltag -- that tte oeoarcanor of eaaoer ia _____ aa--t, that atea y-- haae tea Initial taraaro--d of aor--1 oalla into eaaearo-- oella, ft-- teat 004408 iogMl.D {. 1 -22, point at, tboy nood no other energy source fro* tbo original carcinogenic agent. They are then off oo their am, and just prooood. to that vhat it Meoosary is enough to have a snail sros beeoae eaoosr sad free than on in tho initial causo has m relevance. Q. X'n Os. Coopoc free hurtsley. X agios with Br. tolikoff 4 that o art facing a potentially vary serious situation and regardless of vhat the ineidanoe turnout to he, the population involved here is oo large that the total prohlen in hunsn, eeonoade and soeial terns is bound to bo a serious om, and X feel that the shipyard workers vote casualties of the war, just as sonsona ubo loot an are or log or worse in coobat. the people of the shipyards ttere are no provisions for taking ease of this situation. Our Worknaa's Oonpensation and other provisions very often will not apply and X just vendor vhat kinds of stops are being taken. Hat the poesibilities are of vpsoaohlag thin thing in a my that will be fair to those individuals no natter whether there are 1,00# or 10,001. v h. there in aonsthing being done and X thlak ve have at least in large part to thaak Oeorge levtoe for this, the Bureau of federal laployees Coup motion has agreed in the Uttt Itatt., 1 tkllk till i* tt. JMI, to OOMitot 004409 24 A. (Selikoff) - i an no expert on legal aittars, perhaps Dr. Lawton eaa tall as. A. (Lawton) - the Federal laployees Coapaasatlon applies only to fadarally eapleyed workers. Contract eaployees weald fall sadar a different conpensation. Dooa that sisirsr year question? there are ether asasores that hate bean tttanpted. a year aad a half age we socoaadad in hating inserted in the OtBHROtl bodget a special line appropriation for a asoethaliooM case finding registered, this itsa was tetoad whan the president tetoad that part of the bodget. A second attest was nada by os to begin this work. Legislation has besn intredooad. It's called skeletal legislation, that is to say, it is pot into the hopper to be filled oat later la hearings by Senator abort lanphrey, and this bill will call for a national register of all esposores as the befilming of tin process of identifying these workers aad trying to son that whatever ooasnaity rsaonroae esist are Bo, we're not sleeping on 1 i (SeUhoff) there's anothsr evidence of waitfnlnsss that's now in the works, and this is again the idea of driving foroa off hfTir-- i |Be has bean the principal individual who has bean trying to devolop a am approach 004411 to jsst sosh problens. lis groop has stadied the population of the onion Asbestos and lubber Coepaay Plant la-tyler, Van 100004.0 sen 900 people noticed there froa 1954 through 1971. the pleat it now closed. Yet, here ve bene 900 people who were exposed to exactly this aateriai that we've been describing and ehat is to happen to than. Or. Wagoner- neat to the Watiooal Cancer Institute sene nine snaths ago and proposed that the Watioaal Canoer Institute fund a study of the chest hospital in Tyler, Texas to nake a register of every one of these 900 workers and felloe then for the rest of their lives. The Cancer Control Division of the Motional Cancer Institute has taken this proposal and it is qr understanding that Dr* Wagoner's efforts will be successful* We hope to hear about this in the nest several weeks and this night set a pattern for problaas like this that vs will have X'a sure froa tins to tins* I'a no authority in this particular field in response to the yets* lady's question, but sons place beck in the gray natter here ve're talking about sane legislation identified as whits lung as we relate to the blade lung in the coal industry. Mow far dosastrean this is, I really don't know. is Dr. telikoff indicated and feelley Saaaels, Senator Dtaphrey has proposed a bill with Mspressntative rrelinghuysen end Senator Taft. The asst reoast one la regard to your question the so-called white Imt bill and Z think the 1 that 004412 ttonns.o -2<- Jtffr-CXO as well as the Asbestos Workers International la going to bade la spooaorad by Smator Harrison# William Javita, Jr., and tanator William. lew, Z understand Hug&rey la willing to withdraw hla bill andthey're going to mke tbla bill a oonpansatioo law reform. It's going to bring tha baaatita op to at laaat tha level of Longshoreman's Act of Washington, D.C., which changed Oetobar 1. Z think for it total disability/was 11(7.00 a weak and new I believe it's op 25%. However# Z want to say this snob and I'll road a quote ftoo ooa of tha mgasiaaa -- *tha alarm has f soandad and gaasa oho sounded it?* Ooa industry and an fhe association,/Rational Insolation ooatraotora Association is trying to sound an alarm. Zts tmecutiva Director# John Pollack, has written to sem 30 industry association emeutives urging than to carefully analyse the bill and take steps to haws it mended# if aeoassary# to aaka it mre powerful. This bill if unacted# said Pollack# will in our opinion base a greater Jjpeet on aaployers of OUh. Despite this# no organiaed effort spears to be made to alert aaployers to the wary drastic.provisions it contains, la's alerted tbs ADC# of course# and this bill also prowldm for the attorney fees to be over and above any settlaaant or any oosponsation pajmnta Zt's going to be quite a fight. Z think it's cm that our International will be backing. Z knew the Aft-CXO is going to book it. Z'a sore the ineuranoe eoopanies will probably split on it. Z'n fairly sure a lot of than will book tbs bill but it is going to be our so-called white lung bill that we decided to go for at our last ooovoetion in (aptesbar. 004413 iooe_ i .-27' One aon X think from Ingland. Q. Could X aaka om consent and uk oca question? fhe ona consent la that we had a caall gaa aaak factory -- X think actout aakad about individual susceptibility -- Ha had a aaall gaa aaak factory in at tba baginaing of tba war which waa using this blua aabaatoa froa Western Australia and this aaployed only f woaan for a period about * a yaar packing this stuff into part of gas masks, fis of tbasa have diad of aesothslioaa. fha thraa have boon loot sight of. Ibis suggests to at that there is no individual susceptibility required to aeeount for this. Ton can have tike right fiber ia the right place for long enough, you probably will gat the .. disease. That is ay ooaasnt. fha two questions that are part of Selikoff's breakdown on tba associated lesions or nsrnlnnaaa related to industries that described either fibrosis. Could you give us a brief ooanaat on the associated lesions with the asn who develop otnoar and finally in regard to ther^j -- has be any ooants about the use of ICQ or________ L (Salihoff) - All of oar insulation workers have autopsy have anbestoeis whatever else they have. . v they aay not have it on X-ray, bat histologically there is almya sons pulaonary fibrosis aaoog these poepla. fha shipyard Moothalioaas we've seen on X-ray frequently have 004414 10-->.o -21- ao awidanoa of aabsstoais. fbay aay or may act haws plaques* tat those it so association with asbestosls aeeessarily. With regard to BOB we ousselwas have not used this, zt certainly is thought, Bowewsr* wa hews discussed this with our 1 Minnlogy group and they art looking at tha poaaibility of various laeoaologleal appcoaehoa. this it a waxy aetiwa fiald aa wo all know at tha proaoat tiaa with xoyard to eaaoar nnageaaat. Wa'ra kaapiag oar flagon crossed that it won't go away aa sea of tha othar eaaoar which offarod groat proaiaa at fint and than hawa left oa atlll worrying about oar prohloaa. m Right aa wall wind it t^y oaa announcansnt to aakay oaa obaarwatioo and Or. Ooldaaith would like to aaka com eooaaata. Thnai of yea who hawo not algaad p for tha workshop* plaaaa do* Zt is a great deal of iataraat. 004415 looses,d *W 2 - tide A Hot asbestos -- I got lest on the turn has*. Mbit Blue asbestos any different than y other kind of ubMtoi or do yon Man, jnat don't spray that bias staff? ft. the qaastlons is -- Is bias, say diffacaat than say otbar kiad of asbestos? A. Has asbestos is erocidolite asbestos which cones asialy froa tooth Africa, though there are seas deposits la Australia, sad it has differeat properties to aaoelte or ehrysotile asbeetoe. Z'a going to ask Or. telikoff to eeaaaat ia s aoaeat sad the reeeca Z wee ssking yoa the question ia this fora and he nay want to ask yoa soae qaastlons, and z know others will. Bat the question, they bnilt s begs Pint Batieoal Bank in Portlsad reoaatly and they sprayed all that steel work for 40 stories sad for about a weak around there for fear blocks around yoa walked around then sad you wen walkiag on white stuff* and Z thought certainly the aswspapen would yet wind of this and rein the question, bat nobody did. tte Bander's Digest article was a little too far back then sad you night wsat to oonant on that. Z don't know* Z aeons it's asbeetoe. Z see then still putting white sad gray staff ea these steel buildiags then ia Portland. Z'a aot absolutely son what that staff is* but yoa did talk about the spraying of this notarial and its pmblans. Z osn't help but feel that this staff is still being used rather widely. Mould you like 4416 looses.o i 30- to oommt on hit mirks aad pezhaps dialate a littla tad ask bln a question or two. A. Or. WSgaar ia Great Brltaia it of tha oplaioo that eroeidoiita aaboatoa it even aort dangerous thaa anoaita atbottot or ohryabtlle atbottot. Than have, however, boto ao population ttudiot which would iadieata that thia it to. fupatlnsntal ttudiot hawt ahewa that all type* of aobootoo have tha ^ preparer pretty aneh tha tarn levels of producing tha aaoplatat. the Onitad States' aapariaaeo iaeladaa ao eroeidoiita exposure. All of our data tad ethar aeiaatiata ia tbs Onitad ttatat have haaa haaad npon aaoaita aad chxysetila eyesore. 1 tea ao raatoe for treating eroeidoiita tap differently than aoaita or chrysotile, or thall I put it tha ethar war* X toe ao ratten for treating chrytotila or Malta any differently than ckoeldolita, aad in thia regard, Z an net optinietie at all. I at not optinlstle at all about our ability to protect wockara who are new eoaiag into theee trader bated open our eurrant standards. I'd like to tranalate teat figures. tha level of two fibara par oc that there would ha 2,000,000 fiber* par eubie aster. thaaa are fibara only longer than five adcroos in length, ha wan pointed out thia naming , them nay be Mywhaxe free M to Oft aore fibara shorter than those five herons in length, but if wo would include only tha long ones, 004417 ,0o**0.o 31 only those over five aicroos, two fiber* per ee, a mb working is an ataosphere coctaining two fiber* each ee wool* be working in an ataoepbere which ha* 2,000,000 fibers per coble Mter. low, the working a*a iahalee OMthiag around I coble Mtars of air la aa C-boor day, a aaa actively at week, that aeaaa he woold be labeling, if the ataesphere oontalnad two fiber* per ee, be woold be inhaling 1C,000,000 fibers longer thaa five aiereas * and perhape 100 tiass that aaay aborter thaa five aiereas ia eadi working day. lew, we do aot know wbat pereeatage of those Inhaled are retained. There are worn stadias by lob Karris of lerth Carolina, university of lerth Carolina, iddch seggests that soMthiag arooad SOt are retained. I know of no stediee that woold iadleate that his Mtbenatical nodeIs and scan engineering aodels are necessarily tree. Wo any retaia only 1% or 101 or 201, we don't really knew at this polat. Za the absence of kaewledge, Z think that preeantien is do*ly asesMary. Bat whateWr, we are askiag workers at the present tlM to work ia ataosphares in which thsy will Inhale IC,0M,000 fibers la each working day oi long obm aad perhaps several billion of the smII oms, and retaia an onstodled proportion, z have dosbts whether this vodd protect aayoM ia the fetare. m o*ta are based open the fact that first of all those with very light ei9More,M yoe pointed oefc, that only too of year in snoothelionM were/asbeeto* workers, tte ether M were 004418 in the other trades. So that we have reason to believe that this will not protect workers in the fetare. Z have a second iooesi.o 33- " the British Occupational iygiene Sociaty aid* no elaia that this standard would prevent eaneoc. Tot whoa wo iaportad tills standard across tho Atlantic, wo forgot tho caution that tho British Occupational Hygiene foeiety and wo said* this is tho standard for asbostos. lot that this is tho standard for tho prevention of asbestools but this is tho standard for asbostos in general. those is no published body of data that would say that a standard * of two fibors per ee or If,000,000 fibers in a working day will prevent cancer, there are no such data and with so dsngoroos a situation with such an iaportant disease, with irreversible disease, with death of neoplaaa, X subnit that not to take every possible precaution not to wait everything on the side of the worker is not necessarily going to prevent the disease of death of esnoer in the future. || X agree that Or. Selikoff node a very iaportant point that these standards do refer to the prevention of asbestosis, and our regulations were dram up at the tins whan crocidollte satrsstns was ante closely associated with nosotheliona than the other two varieties of asbestos. X still think they're eat absolutely eortaia all the degree of risk involved with the different types of asbestos, and we need to know aero about it* Ad far as our eevironasntal conditions are oonoerned- in our ahipe our dust ssapling teen are i** dispirited because they do not find asbestos fibers in the air and X don't thlak x asntlcosd this in m talk that we take thousands of anvil fiber 004420 1000V3.0 t -34- ocoeentratlona. X knew thaaa are by the light nicroacopa hot it it tha btat eaa do with a practical point of view. We hava brooght aboot vary draatieredoctiona in aabaatoa eonceatraticae# bot X agraa that thaaa etaadarda vara deaigaed to prevent aabeatoeia, and it ia n aboot a ataodard for aaaothalioaa. Axe.there qeeatioae? Q? X have two qoaatiooa. One# baeaoaa of tha precautionary aaaaoraa that aabaatoa workara have to taka# tha plaatic aoita# thay appaar to ba plaatic# and tha raapiratora and thia typa of thing# ia thara any eeapaaaatioa, ahorfear work hoora or aenataxy cowpanaatioa for thia? Saoood qoaatlon yoo raiaad aboot tha throw away raapirator# X woold lika to have that qoaation anawarad aa to ita effectiveaeea for aabaatoa filtering* X believe that waa yoor qoaation. A. yao# thank yoo. Tha firat point ia that wa do pay tha nan an antra rata for wearing tha mooafortabla clothing. Xt ia noat mocnfortable to do an l-hoer day waaring aa inpandeoa aoit. go wa pay than poraly for waaring an nnnITnrfili overall raapirator. ha aaoond qoaation waa# waa a qaaaticn that X poaad. X an not core . x do not know whether anybody hw dona any avaloatico on thia kind of thing on tha affactivaoaaa of thaaa raapiratora. Aa far aa X knew# thay are not approved by oar aialatxy# cor DapnrtMOt of pufUBt# ror protection agaiiwa m. 004421 loorw.o 1 f -35- Q. X'a ton that they not approved. Those gsys are soaring surgical aasks.--Xtb deferred for tha aoaont with your pendaaioo. Oaa question, X gathered aoawwhara that eubliaiaally you taad to have thla type of work dona ao--what is laolatioo oa tha ahlp. Xa this oorraet? Tea don't ala a whola buach of othar eats ia there with thaaa chape? Mo, this was always tha problem that tha aan woold ba ia working eoaditioos that you've saaa now with all tha othar trades aad tha Mawy ia with thaa. Mowadaya, wa do not 1st tha othar trades go ia until tha asbeetes work has been done aad as wa ara not putting aay asbestos back late oar ahips, this would ba a aalf-liaitiag problem. Ms isolate tha workers as far as possible. Xa foot, it's gone so far that our aan ara wary particular whan they sea a dusty condition, aad they insist that wa awaluata tha duat aad lot thus kaow what tha dust is aad what tha eoaoaatratioos ara. X think this is good that psopla ara aware of tha 004422 looses.o -it- JVM and July of lut year, X spent five weeks going through the nuclear coal station* in Great Britain and X earn back to London to talk to than about what I'd learned, and Dr. Lianll apant all of m tian not talking about nuclear pcoblaaa but tailing no about ubat tbay vara doing with aabastoa in tba ooal stations in . 110 najor ooal burning electrical stations in Ingland and Valas and they bane a vary special progran that is all tunad op and in operation. X haven't seen too aneh aneltenant about that vithin the ftatas as yet, but X slag>ly nsntion that they felt that the noelear problen was handled years .ago, but tbs aabastoa problen is vary aneh with then, that's the reason X asked about the spraying on the buildings and the question of its use in the ooaounity, but it appeased to as it is nary widely used still. Q. Dr. Heston, X would like to know if you haws in your studies of your asaothalloaas -- if the erperleaos of sacking was brought out in your study? h. lot waqr clearly, with the sene problen that Dr. Sdge asatloaed this aexaing, that lots of these people die before wa oould get to thaau Ha haws, X think r sin aon. soakers is esongst our 55, but there's no dear relationship v as far as X oan sea fcon the incidenca or the provdonoo of pleurd ____in sacking habits as far as X can sea. xootwa.o