Document X7ZMpnvb3RJbqZQLw0Gxe7vxx

FILE NAME: Saranac 7th Symposium (SSY) DATE: 1952 DOC#: SSY036 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Transcript of Discussion from Sept 26 AM Session o T1XXX FBON PACK J JS JS S S JS S ia * Thank pen* Mr. Shtoarla, tad ta r that moving t r i b u t e w ith which you co n clu d ed your re m a rk s, to th< men o f sc ie n c e who, w orking n o ta b ly h ere a t S a ra n a c Lake and in the Trudeau L ab o rato ry , have advanced the fr o n tie r s o f knowledge so a s t o make i t more e a s i l y p o s s i b l e fo r u s to enkindle the hope o f coping w ith the problems th at have been r a is e d in the a d m in istra tio n o f workmen` a compensation^ and f o r the an sw ers to which we m ust indeed lo o k to the men of science* Now, we have about a h a l f an hour f o r d i s c u s s i o n , w hile you a r e g e ttin g to the q u e stio n s which you want to ask about the m orning's papers and p re se n ta tio n s, I w ould l i k e t o r e c o g n i s e , l i k e my s e l f , an a d m in is t r a t o r o f w orkm an's co m p e n satio n , th re e o f my c o lle a g u e s from oth er s t a t e s who a r e h ere and to a sk them i f they w ould l i k e to co n trib u te a few words to what has been s a i d * I think I*m g o in g t o ask a l l o f you who r i s e to d i s c u s s , to b e generous w ith co lleagu es o f you rs, and th e re fo re , to confine y ou raol* to say three m inutes each, or something o f th a t k in d, w ith o u t tr y in g t o l i m i t y o u , so some may need a l i t t l e more o r some a l i t t l e l e s s * I 'd l i k e , f i r s t , to s t a r t out by re c o g n isin g C o m m is s io n e r V. J . K night from I l l i n o i s . Mr. Chairman K night, w ill you t e l l us what you have been thinking about th is m orning's d isc u ssio n or anything e lse you want to say I to us t69. y MB. KMIGgH wdM, C h a im s, fro . 1 1 1 b<>,u-d l" " nd from a * M f . r U . * * 1- "-tp - tw o ln C" "P8" " ' iloB Act and . . C haim an o f th . Board of X lU n o l., I *= le a r tily in f * Tor o f " * advisory ^ 61081 b0&rd * * J , J tho n o d ical c o l l .g . centalTM d w ith in th . S ta to of 1 a o la , among t h . . d o in g t h . D n l t . r . l t j o f l U l n o l . . B .t h .1 C o ll.g o * K o r t h v .a t .r o , Chloago and I h . l l . T . t h a t w. who ha^a ao m andatory o c c u p a tio n a l d l . . a . . a c t a r . p r a c t ic a lly P*j ! . . . a t t i n ., in th . prop.r adm inistration o f th at a c t. I * . . . d i d . n o a n - t b . o f . . . l . t a n o . to . I toow o f no one t h a t c a n . Thank you. BY MISS DOKLOKt you , . r j auoh, and n o . f r o . M aryland, w. t a r * Doctor * . D. E M u ^ * r' C 8 1" y DOCTOR HSRMAHl Kadam Chairm an, Mr. W aters, i t would h a re been e ry i n t e r e s t i n g t o have heard some comment on the o th e r Ide o f the fence ae to the d isad v an tages. IV WTftS PONLOMt Want t o sp eak a l i t t l e lo u d e r . D octor Herman! i v TOG TOR HtgKHAB . ! 8ay i t would have been i n t e r e s t i n g and p o s s i lyj t o have h e a r d s o u t h in g from the o th er side o f ^ . __________________ _______________________________________________________________ 670. fence, th a t i s as to the disadvan tages of such m edically tra in e d b o a r d s , t e c h n ic a lly tra in e d b o a rd s, in seme id e a o f a rriv in g a t su b sta n tia l Ju s t ic e , Everybody seems in accord! th a t th e se boards are u s e f u l . B ein g a p h y sician and s i t t i n g on a b o a rd t h a t i s c o n s t i t u t e d somewhat d i f f e r e n t l y from th o other s t a t e s , o f co u rse, I'm h e a rtily in accord. There i s one th in g I would lilce to ask and p o s s i bly M iss Donlon can answer i t , I a fran k ly at a lo s s to know w hether o r not Hew York r e c o g n iz e s p a r t i a l d i s a b i l i t y in the - in s i l i c o s i s and i f s o , what are the u s e fu l means o f a rriv in g a t such, such determ ination, I think th a t Doctor B ra u n 's remarks were p a r tic u la r ly p ertin en t inasmuch as p h y sician s appear before us and are sin g u larly i l l p re pared in t h e ir - in the testim ony th at they g iv e . I t * s a l l too freq u en tly poorly prepared, the records a r e n 't ade quate and in f a c t , th ey may be in c r im in a te d on ab o u t e v e ry count, I t hi nk as Doctor Braun has poin ted ou t, i f th is were more - h ad moro g e n e r a l cu rren cy amongst the p h y s ic ia n j , a l o t o f m e d ical a d m in istra tio n would be s im p lifie d . BY M ISS DONLONt Thank you, D octor Herman. W ell, I th in k I can c le a r up any m isunderstanding there i s with regard to the scope o f co v era g e o f the New York law . Alone in the d u st in h a la t io n d i s e a s e s , New York denys Workmen's Com pensation . fo r p a r t i a l d i s a b i l i t i e s . There are a number o f r e a s o n s , | y o u rw elf; g iv e your name and your a f f i l i a t i o n . RY MR. KkNGANO* Kangano o f L a v e r ic k St H a in e s. I h aven 't a qua*- tio n to ask nor do I th in k you can say . . . . KY MISS DONLOKt Can you h ear in the b a ck o f the room or v h a l l we have him come to the f r o n t o f th e room t Come on up h e r e . BY MR. MAHGAHOt Thank you, M ias Donlon. I do not have a qu estion hVi5 x want to aak nor do I th in k t h a t I c a n aee D octor Herman's d e sire to hear from the other a id e , in r e la tio n to the m edical b o ard , but I do want to e x p ress Ju s t one though; t h a t occurr o d t o me when t h is d i s c u s s i o n a b o u t m e d ic a l b o a r la oocurred. I , f o r one, ste e p e d in l e g a l t r a d i t io n s , would v e ry much d i s l i k e to s e e any b o a rd which would have f i n a l say in fa c t-fin d in g , e sp e c ia lly a m edical b o ard . I do no* t h in k th a t an y th in g can r e p la c e th e g iv e and ta k e o f e x amin atio n ana cross-exam ination of export w itn e sse s. Hc^ever, th e r# a r e o c c a s io n s , o f c o u r s e , when th e re a r e a b u s e s , as have been p o in te d out by a number o f sp e a k e rs h e r e . I would much r a th e r p la c e my r e l i a n c o upon an ab so lu te ly im p a rtia l trib u n al with adequate review by courta than to r e ly upon any b o ard , however competent and however e x p e r t . I th in k t h a t we must b e a r in mind where a v o ard i s co n cern ed , t h . adm onition o f our comrade when he . a i d . Ire thrall# by t h . b o w el, o f C h r l . t , y . th in k y . may be U taken. and I th in k th. c . th at w. e l t .d by H r. Tiernan h e re , where t h . B oard o f H e. York S t a t e d l .a g r a .d w ith t h . m edical e x p ert, on both .I d e a , 1 . e ty p ic a l e x p e r t'. - or an exam p le. I d o n 't know who e r r e d In t h a t c a a e . b u t o b T io u .ly .om eon. d id and when w. . . . th e m o u n t o f d l . a g r . e ment which th ere 1 . . .v an among the m e t le a rn e d e x p e r t .. I think th a t, a . X .e ld b e fo re , th . g iv e and tak e o f e r o ..- j ex a m in atio n , com petent cro.e x a m in a t io n w ith p ro p e r p r e p .r a t io n a . H r. B am ako m d the o th er a p . ^ e r . on the p an e l . h i . morning In d ic a te d , 1. the p roper e o lu tlo n to fa c t- fin d in g and a sc e rta in in g the truth# BY M IS S DONLONt y o u . I do w ant to c l e a r up the m a tta r, i f I may, .In ca t h l . gentleman a llu d .d to thla ra th a r h la to r la . . . . th at Harry Tie m an got u . In to . Into th . d lacu a.lo n of.. I do n ot th in g I t l a a m a tta r o f e r r o r . I do n ot th in k th a t any d octor taT O lr.d In th a t a ltu a tlo n c m b . . . I d to h ay . erred In what he . a i d . I th in k t h . doctor fo r the comf p an , and t h . d octor fo r t h . u n io n , a l i k e , g am * b o n c .t j d l . g n o . l e , end o p in io n , b a e .d on t h e ir e x p e rie n c e m d understanding o f a d i f f i c u l t m d a narrow . t a t . o f f a c t a , and I am o o n f id .n t t h a t th e B o a rd o f C heat C o n s u lt a n t ., , l i k e w i s e , g a r e an h o n e st o p in io n b a s e d on t h e i r k n o w le d g e ; * 4 . x p . r l . n o in to . . situ a tio n , and th . only crn oln s jlrcu m stan e ., th at t h . s o - c a lle d lm p w tU l t r ib u n e - and th l. 1 . hy I t . a . m .n tlo n .d . I'm s u r .. th a t t h . only 1 - .ttn o . where I t . . . m entioned, ' th s,pt' ` l t * I d . , fin d in g th at under cu r law t h .r . nc righ t to .on- pensation, b .o a u .. to . d ia d b illty -- d f P a r tia l, although t o . two a m in .n t p h y s i c i a n s . t o r * th* " Pl0J ' tn . Othar fo r th . .m p lo y .., had found .x a c t ly t o . oppo- . X t . , t h a t t h . r . was a t o t a l d i s a b i l i t y an d , t h o r .f o r > p ro te stab le under our narrow law . HOT, v h a t d o . , t h l . p r o . t It p ro ... ho. b .lp l..n 1. .o r to m 'a co p .n ..tlo n adm inistration in th . f a o f * " lo t i opin ion th at o u ld lc..p a ..1 1 q u a lifie d parson In t o . p o .lt lo n w h .r. t h . . . th in g , can com. out so d l a o t r i o U .ly o p p o . l t . . Whan - t h . to n d lc a p 1 . t h a t o f a l a . w hich p l a o . g r o t r e s t r i c t i o n , on t o . r i g h t o f t h . c l a m a n t . Had v . a l a . In t h is s t a t . which p arm ittad d i s a b i l i t y fto t o . p a r t i a l d i s a b i l i t y , p .rh a p a v . would n ot fin d good d o c to r , .t r a i n in g q u i t . a . h ard a . to .y do to fin d t o t a l d is a b ilit y ) . X only want to t r y to c le a r th a t up fo r you, b u t x d o n 't th in k anybody . . . in e rro r, I think I t . m Ju st a d iffe re n ce o f opinion# ttv- MH. MAyOAKOj I hops nothing I sa id gay. th . Im pression th at I 4* monted any Improper W Jtia .s to any o f th . wltne. 675, witness* that t e s t if ie d . Try M IS S DONLOH t Ho, I d o n 't th in k i t was e r r o r , th at was the o 7 word I qu arreled w ith . " "U * x oniy _ to poln t ** ^ ls ^ . u . . . . . - no- controwartad, that opinion which a x i .t a , not th a t I th o u ^ t <* wa. e n d i n g unusual ahout i t . r y W TSS DONLOHl f r i g h t . a r . thara , L_ o th ar R a t i o n . or pain * fo r d iscu ssio n * I * 8ur* yoU' ' 8 *11 80" * Tou W i ll th in k o f aona th in g To wanted to o ak . * # BT TOCTOH P R IS M M I p ri.a w n fr o . I gnaaa noat o f jo u know I * , houla P r la o w n Blm lnshan* I want to aay t h l a . - > " " la tr a tlo n o f i n .t i e . In c . a ln o lvln g ooenp* . a . . . o f t h . c ta a t. I d o n 't t a lla r a . U k . .0 n f - l n ferred, that o f our d o cto r, or , .1 - * * " g i .h o n .a t . ! t a lla r a th a t 99 d M./100 paroant o f onn 1 dootora n d lawyera are b a a lo a lly honaat p a .p l * . * - | d i f f i c u l t . Which . . ancountar 1 . d o c to r . - attem p tin g to a o l i n t e l l i g e n t l y and ao u ltab , . ror c o -p a n a a tlo n , 1 . the f a c t th a t we a r . f o r e .d opinions on tthhee bbaaaslias of 01 oor currant k n__o__w__l_._d__g__.__I_n____t_h___. __f i 62&a o f s t a t u te s which have been en acted fiv e , ten or fifte e n y e a r * p r e v i o u s l y . We make a l o t o f p r o g r e s s in m edicin e every y ear, and I th in k a lo t o f the d iffic u lty could be r e so lv e d i f the in d iv id u a l s t a t e s would have com pensation a c t s or o la u so s o f a vague enough n atu re to p erm it the ap p l i c a t i o n o f new m e d ic a l knowledge as the s i t u a t i o n a r i s e s from year to y e a r * Sow, f o r e x r n p le y e s t e r d a y , D octor W aters - Mr* l i t e r s made r e fe r e n c e to the West V ir g in ia com pensation Act which he th ou gh t was a v ery w onderful a o t , bu t there in V est V irg in ia , the o ccu p ation al d ise a se s o f the ohest are lim ite d to the d isco v e ry o f nodules in a m an's Roantgeno- gram * W a ll, we know today t h a t we can have v ery s i g n i f i o a n ; and d is a b lin g pulmonary d is e a s e , d u st d is e a s e , w ithout any evidence o f n od u latio n in the Roentgenogram. W ell, I can a a e how a d o c to r f o r the c la im a n t o r a d o cto r f o r the d e fe n se , in West V ir g in ia , w ould have a g re at d e a l o f d i f f i c u l t y i n s o l v i n g t h e i r problem when i t comes to a p a r t i c u l a r c a se o f an I n d iv id u a l who i s d is a b le d from pulmonary d u st d ise a se end p roved to be d isa b le d bu t has no n odulation in M c h e st* S o , I b e lie v e th a t i f the law s and s t a t u te s o f the v a rio u s s t a t e s would b s th us lim itin g upon ths p h y s i c i a n , I b e l i e v e we would have a more e q u it a b le a p p l i - i c a t i o n o f J u s t i c e i n each c a s e w ith ou t so much d is s e n t io n I I and w ith o u t so much n a m e - c a llin g * j 677* BY HISS DONLOHt Thank you, go cto r Friedman* Who i s n ex t w ith a q u e stio n or a consnont? D octor H ussey, have you got some th in g you'd lik e to aay to u s, or have you, Doctor Oreen- b u r g t (Ho r e s p o n s e ) . I s th e re somebody e l s e t h a t I sh o u ld c a l l on and t h a t I'm p a s s in g o v e r? (Ho r e s p o n s e ) . W ell, I want to say to a l l the members o f th is m o rn in g 's program and th o se who have Jo in e d i n the d is c u s s io n , how f o r tu n a t e I am as Chairman o f t h i s m o rn in g 's program , th e g r e a t e f f o r t th a t w ent in to the p a p e rs was ev id en t to a l l o f you, I'm su re , by th e ir scope and content , stnd t o most o f you v&o came and s a t on th e s e very h ard c h a i r s lis te n in g to us d isc u ss an im portant problem . Sometimes, th o se o f u s who have to d e a l w ith the c a s e s , day a f t e r day , w ith a c o n flic t o f views p r e v a ilin g around us and uncer- t a i r t i e a on the p a r t o f even th e most exp erien ced and w e ll- q u a l i f i e d o f p h y s ic ia n s , som etim es we f e e l v e ry much alo n e in c e n te r o f the v o r te x and we d o n 't know q u ite how to got out o f i t s Such o p p o rtu n itie s as the Saranac Sympotiun a f f o r d s , D o c to r v o rw a ld i make u s r e e l t h a t we a r e n 't e t r u g g lin g alone w ith th is problem and I speak , I'm su re , f o r a y c o l l e a g u e s , o t h e r a d m i n i s t r a t o r s who a r e h e r e , i n e x p r e s s in g our a p p r e c ia tio n to you and to Mr. W aters fo r t h is very con stru ctive program . J 678.! I u n d e rsta n d t h a t Mr. W aters has some announce m ents he w ants to make to you, and he now may have the flo o r fo r that purpose. MY MR. WATERS: I have th ree very b r i e f announcements to make. The f i r s t i s th a t a t th e co n c lu sio n o f t h is s e s s io n , there w ill be a group photograph tak en , and I hope th a t a l l o f you w ill remain fo r th a t p urpose. The secon d i s t h a t I * d l i k e to c a l l to your a t te n tio n the a fte rn o o n s e s s io n whieh I b e lie v e w i l l be one o f th e h ig h lig h t s o f th e Symposium. When we g e t to g e th e r men l i k e Ben K euchle and B i l l C o n n o lly and Roy Hamlin and Commissioner W isely and Jim H ill, y o u 're going to see a lu ggin g match, and i t ' s going to be an exceedingly in te r e s t i n g s e s s i o n , w ith e n liv e n e d d e b a te and, I am su re th a t a l l p o in t s o f view t h a t may be c o n c e rn e d w ith the adm in is tr a tio n o f com pensation laws w ill be properly presen ted . t h ir d announcement i s n o t an announcement. I t i s a rem ark . I b e l i e v e t h a t the p ro g n o sis t h a t I made th is morning h as been f u l f i l l e d . Mary, you have done your u su a l b o *x itifu l and e f f e c t iv e job as chairman o f the m eet- , tn g and I know th a t I sp e a k f o r D o ctor Vorwald, f o r the mem' b ers o f the Saranac L aboratory, fo r the audience in atton dance, fo r the sp e a k e rs, In thanking you fo r the ve. y g ra c lo u s and e f f e c t i v e jo b th a t you have done. May ve g iv e ; a r is in g Tote of thankst (A p p lau aa)* BY DOCTOR VOSWALD: Va t a g you t o stay fo r tba photograph. I know t h a t many o f you h are had your ph otograph b e f o r e , b u t r e a l l y t h i s l a an e f f o r t to show th a t the members o f the m e d ica l p r o f e s s io n and menfcers o f the l e g a l p r o f e s s io n m ig it , a t l e a s t s t ic k togeth er fo r a photograph, so i f you w ill ocoe fo rw a rd so we m ight photograph y o u , p l e a s e come fo rw ard and remain fo r the photograph. I t w ill only taka ten m in utes. (S e s s io n ad jo u rn ed a t ItOO P . M .)