Document X3vGj6e6mN3NqXrz4606KOZd

Page 1 1 CAUSE NO. 03CV0588 2 LOUISE ALTIMORE * IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF 3 VS. 4 * * GALVESTON COUNTY, TEXAS * QUIGLEY COMPANY, INC., ET AL. * 405THJUDICIALDISTRICT 5 6 7 8 9 10 ORAL DEPOSITION OF 11 BRUCE LARSON 12 MARCH 23, 2004 13 14 15 16 THE ORAL DEPOSITION OF BRUCE LARSON, duly sworn, produced as 17 a witness at the instance of the PLAINTIFF LOUISE ALTIMORE, 18 was taken in the above styled and numbered cause on the 23rd 19 of March, 2004, from 10:56 a.m. to 1:32 p.m., before Suzi 20 Gladney, CSR, RPR, Certified Shorthand Reporter in and for 21 the State of Texas, reported by machine shorthand, at the 22 offices of Abrams, Scott & Bickley, LLP, 700 Louisiana, 23 Suite 1800, Houston, Texas, pursuant to the Texas Rules of 24 Civil Procedure and the provisions stated on the record. 25 Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004691 1 APPEARANCES 2 3 FOR THE PLAINTIFF LOUISE ALTIMORE: Mr. Denman H. Heard 4 HEARD, ROBINS, CLOUD, LUBEL & GREENWOOD, LLP 910 Travis, Suite 2020 5 Houston, TX 77002 Tel: (713) 650-1200 6 FOR THE DEFENDANT EXXONMOBIL: 7 Mr. S. Shayne Gardner DeHAY & ELLISTON, LLP 8 901 Main Street, Suite 3500 Dallas, TX 75202 9 Tel: (214) 210-2430 10 FOR THE DEFENDANT EXXONMOBIL: Mr. R. Thomas Radcliffe, Jr. 11 DeHAY & ELLISTON, LLP 36 South Charles Street, Suite 1300 12 Baltimore, MD 21201 Tel: (410) 783-7225 13 FOR THE DEFENDANT EXXONMOBIL CORPORATION: 14 Ms. Glenna M. Kyle EXXONMOBIL CORPORATION 15 P. O. Box 2180 Houston, TX 77252-2180 16 Tel: (713) 656-6522 17 18 REPORTED BY: 19 Suzi Gladney, CSR, RPR Texas Certification No. 6857 20 Word for Word Reporting Office City Plaza, Building II 21 7015 Gulf Freeway, Suite 110 Houston, TX 77087 22 (713) 847-8984 23 24 25 Page 2 Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004692 1 INDEX 2 3 Appearances. 4 Index. . . . 5 BRUCE LARSON 6 Examination by Mr. Heard...................................................... 7 Signature and Changes........................................................................... 8 Reporter's Certificate ...................................................................... Q Page 3 PAGE 2 3 6 105 107 10 11 NO. 12 1 2 13 3 4 14 5 15 6 7 16 8 9 17 10 11 18 12 19 13 14 20 15 21 16 17 22 18 19 23 20 21 24 25 EXHIBITS DESCRIPTION PAGE Curriculum Vitae of Mr. Larson Record of Service of Mr. Altimore Accident Prevention Manual (10/1/49) To Your Good Health at Esso Manual Safety Rules and Safe Practices Manual (6/22/36) Safety Highlights (1956) Accident Prevention Manual (9/1959) Accident Prevention Manual (3/1962) The Medical Bulletin (3/22/46) Humble Oil and Refining Company Article Method of Surveying Toxic Exposure in the Occupational Environment Occupational Cancer Now (3/3/71) Asbestos Handling Guidelines (9/1/72) Rules and Regulations (6/7/72) Hot Equipment Insulation Application (3/1972) Industrial Safety Survey Deposition of Louise Altimore (6/12/03) Dust Producing Operations (1937) Map Deposition of Louise Altimore (12/23/03) Analysis of Cancer Mortality Article 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 49 90 Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004693 Page 4 1 (Larson Exhibit Nos. 1 through 19 were marked) 2 MR. HEARD: Let's just start with some sort 3 of -- I don't know if it's an agreement; but I know that 4 Mr. Larson needs to be done by 3:00, 3:30. I need to be 5 done by 1:00 something so I can get over to the 6 courthouse. I'm not ordered to be there and I'm not 7 lead counsel in the case but I need to be there to help 8 with some matters. So, if that's okay with y'all, 9 wherever we are at that time, I'm going to cut it off. 10 We don't have a notice for this deposition, an official 11 notice; is that right? 12 MR. GARDNER: That's right. We're taking 13 it by agreement. 14 MR. HEARD: So, we'll just plow as far 15 ahead as we can; and if we need to come up to Virginia 16 and visit your lovely country up there before trial 17 again. we'll do that -18 THE WITNESS: Fine. You're invited. 19 MR. RADCLIFFE: Let me just jump in. I ' m 20 from Baltimore. 21 MR. HEARD: Oh, you are? 22 MR. RADCLIFFE: My pro hac in the case has 23 not been filed yet. I have not been admitted. I'm not 24 going to participate, but we're willing to work with 25 you. We want to make sure that everybody knows what is Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004694 Page 5 1 going on. My only concern is just timing and scheduling 2 and making sure that we get everything done. And so, 3 understand that time constraints -- let's get done what 4 we can get done; but we can't just pick any date if you 5 decide that you need to talk to him a little bit more. 6 And we can't go on endlessly if you decide that you need 7 to talk to him a little bit more. 8 MR. HEARD: I agree, and we won't. So, 9 what I think -- I'm just talking about purely from the 10 perspective of time -- I mean, I've been provided a 11 stack of documents I haven't looked at yet. I'll look 12 at them. We'll discuss them here today together; but if 13 we don't get through all this stuff, as long as y'all 14 can make him available at a mutually convenient time 15 between now and trial, it's fine with us. 16 MR. RADCLIFFE: We'll work with you. If 17 y'all need more time, we'll work with you to - 18 MR. HEARD: Right. Thank you. 19 THE REPORTER: What about signature? 20 MR. GARDNER: Would you like to read and 21 sign the deposition? 22 MR. RADCLIFFE: Yes, he does. 23 24 25 Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004695 Page 6 1 BRUCE LARSON, 2 having been first duly sworn, testified as follows: 3 EXAMINATION 4 BY MR. HEARD: 5 Q. State your name for the record, please. 6 A. My name is Bruce Allen Larson. 7 Q. Mr. Larson, my name is Denman Heard. You 8 understand that I represent the plaintiff in this case; do 9 you not? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. We've never met before? 12 A. No, sir. 13 Q. Have you ever given a deposition before? 14 A. I have on, I believe, three other occasions. 15 Q. Can you tell me about those, when and what they 16 were for? 17 A. There was one in 1996. I gave a deposition in 18 Washington involving, I guess, a case involving Mobil Oil. I 19 really don't recall the specifics of it, but I did give a 20 deposition then. 21 Q. Do you know what kind of case it was, in other 22 words, what the basis of the lawsuit was? 23 A. It had to do with several -- part of it was related 2 4 to asbestos. Part of it was related to benzene. Part of it 25 was related to 1-3 butadiene. It was a number of issues. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004696 Page 7 1 Q. Was it a single-plaintiff case, or were there 2 multiple plaintiffs involved? 3 A. I don't recall. 4 Q. But that was in about 1996? 5 A. Yes, correct. 6 Q. Do you know where that deposition was taken? In 7 Washington -8 A. In Washington. 9 Q. -- you said? Do you know who the lawyers were who 10 were representing the plaintiffs? 11 A. Yes, it was Hershal Hobson. 12 Q. And you don't recall the name of the plaintiff; do 13 you? 14 A. Not -- no. 15 Q. How long did that deposition last? 16 A. I think probably about three hours. 17 Q. Was that the first deposition you had ever given? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. Did you give that deposition in a capacity as an 20 expert witness or a fact witness, or do you know? 21 A. Don't really know. I really don't. 22 Q. Obviously, y'all talked about industrial hygiene 23 issues? 24 A. Right. They basically wanted to find out about my 25 experience with OSHA and then further with Exxon and finally Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004697 1 with Mobil. Page 8 2 Q. We're going to be doing some of that here today; 3 and if they asked you a bunch of questions about your 4 background, it may be helpful to me to cut some time off. 5 also. Maybe I can read from that other deposition -- 6 A. They did. They did that. 7 Q. Okay. Good. What was the second time you gave a 8 deposition? 9 A. Second time, I believe, was last year. I think it 10 was in November. 11 Q. I'm going to back up because I forgot to ask you 12 something: Were you presented by Mobil in that deposition? 13 A. I think so. 14 Q. So, you testified on Mobil's behalf in the 1996 15 deposition in Washington? 16 A. I believe so. 17 Q. And were you paid for your time to show up and 18 testify in that case? 19 A. As an employee, no. It was part of my j ob. 20 Q. You were an employee for Mobil at the time? 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. Are you currently an employee? 23 A. No . 24 Q. We'll come back to these depositions in a minute. 25 Who do you work for now? Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004698 1 A. I work for myself. Page 9 2 Q. Doing what? 3 A. Well, basically I'm retired; but I have a small 4 farm in Edinburg, Virginia; and I've been doing some 5 consulting work part time for ExxonMobil. 6 Q. Do you do any other consulting work for other 7 companies besides ExxonMobil? 8 A. No . 9 Q. What is your financial arrangement with ExxonMobil? 10 Currently I mean. 11 A. Okay. Currently I'm paid by the hour. 12 Q. How much? 13 A. 300 . 14 Q. Does that increase if you have to -- have you ever 15 testified in a trial? 16 A. Once . 17 Q. Did the $300-an-hour fee, did that increase for 18 trial; or did it remain the -- 19 A. No, it was just time per hour. 20 Q. All right. After the 1996 deposition. when was the 21 next time you testified? 22 A. I believe it was November of 2003. It was a 23 deposition. 24 Q. So, your trial was sometime after that? 25 A. Yes. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004699 Page 10 1 Q. In November, 2003, who paid for your time to be 2 present at the deposition? 3 A. ExxonMobil. 4 Q. Did you testify as an industrial hygienist, an 5 industrial hygienist -6 A. Correct. 7 Q. On behalf of ExxonMobil? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. Was there a particular facility involved in that 10 testimony? 11 A. Let's see. I'm trying to remember. I believe it 12 was the Beaumont refinery and the Beaumont olefins and 13 aromatics facility. 14 Q. Who was the plaintiffs' lawyer who took your 15 deposition? 16 A. You know, I don't really recall. 17 Q. Were they a Beaumont law firm? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And it wasn't Mr. Hobson's firm? 20 A. No . 21 Q. Provost & Umphrey? Does that sound right? 22 A. I think it is. I believe that was it. 23 Q. But you don't remember the name of the actual 24 lawyer who took -- 25 A. Not off the top of my head. I have a copy of the Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004700 1 deposition. I could probably refer to that. Page 11 2 Q. I'll tell you what would really help me -- if you 3 guys don't mind -- could I have copies of these three 4 depositions so that I can review them? 5 MR. RADCLIFFE: I don't know if we have 6 them. to tell you the truth. 7 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Okay. You have them, correct? 8 A. I think I have two out of the three. I may have 9 all three, but I'm not sure. But I know I have several. 10 Q. You have the Hershal Hobson deposition? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. And you just mentioned you have the Provost & 13 Umphrey deposition in 2003? 14 A. I'm not sure if I do or not. I know I've got at 15 least two depositions, but I'm not sure which ones I have. I 16 know I' ve got the one from '96. 17 Q. You know you have the one from '96? 18 A. Right. 19 Q. And you have another one out of the remaining two 20 depositions -- 21 A. Correct. And I know -- 22 Q. -- that you did, and you have -- 23 A. -- I have at least one -- 24 Q. -- at least one? 25 A. Correct. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004701 Page 12 1 Q. Would you mind when you get home today finding 2 those depositions and giving them to the lawyers, to the 3 lawyers for ExxonMobil who are present here today? 4 A. If that's acceptable, sure. 5 Q. I'll make a request from them for them; and if they 6 feel it' s appropriate, they can give them to me. I'm just 7 asking you since -8 A. Fine . 9 Q. -- you have them to give them to me. 10 A. Fine . 11 Q. Thank you. Now, were you being paid $300 an hour 12 for that 2003 deposition; or was it a different charge? 13 A. It might have been 250. I'm not sure. 250 or 300 . 14 Q. When is the next time you testified in a deposition 15 after that? 16 A. The third would have been -- I believe it was sere 17 in Houston in January of this year because it was during the 18 week of the Super Bowl. I remember that. 19 Q. That's pretty convenient. Did you get to go? 20 A. No, but I got involved with all the congestion at 21 the airport. 22 Q. Who was the plaintiffs' attorney in that case? 23 A. Again, off the top of my head, I really don't -- it 24 was a very short deposition, lasted only about an hour. 25 Q. What was it about? Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004702 Page 13 1 A. It was about -- I think it was about an alleged 2 exposure to asbestos at one of Mobil Chemical's plastic 3 fabricating facilities in Temple, Texas. 4 Q. Did you provide documents in that deposition as you 5 provided me with here today? 6 A. I think we did provide a few. 7 Q. All right. Well, let me tell you what I'm going to 8 do since we're limited on time here. I'm going to hope that 9 one of those other depositions covers in detail your 10 background and what you've done. 11 A. I think at least two -12 Q. Okay. Great. 13 A. -- two will that I have access to. 14 Q. And so, what I'm going to do, just in case there's 15 a problem with those, I'm going to run through your 16 background but probably not spend the normal amount of time 17 on it. 18 A. All right. Fine. 19 Q. Where did you grow up? 20 A. Grew up in Houston. 21 Q. You went to Spring Branch High School? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. And after high school, what did you do? 24 A. After high school, I attended University of Texas 25 at Austin Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004703 1 Q. You received a degree from UT? Page 14 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. What was your degree in? 4 A. Natural science. 5 Q. Did you have any kind of special focus? Was it a 6 BS degree 7 A. Yes, and I also had a minor in chemical 8 engineering. 9 Q. What year did you receive that degree in? 10 A. 1972 . 11 Q. Now, during your time at University of Texas, did 12 y'all talk about OSHA or study about OSHA and what it was 13 about to do? 14 A. Somewhat about both EPA and OSHA since they were 15 both established in 1970. 16 Q. That was a pretty hot issue at that time, correct? 17 A. Right. 18 Q. So, that would have been the subject of some of 19 your classes, I take it, at least in chemical engineering? 20 A. It come up -- yeah. It was also something that I 21 was looking toward in terms of a career. 22 Q. So, you already knew in 1972 when you graduated 23 that you may want to have some sort of career involving work 24 with OSHA? 25 A. Correct. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004704 Page 15 1 Q. Did you ever intern for OSHA prior to graduating 2 from UT ir 1972, or the EPA? 3 A. Well, no, that was back during Nixon's hiring 4 freeze for the government. So, initially upon graduation I 5 submitted an application; but I couldn't actually be hired 6 until the hiring freeze was lifted; and when it was, in '73, 7 I went to work for OSHA. 8 Q. What did you do between 1972 when you graduated and 9 1973 when you went to work for OSHA? 10 A. I worked here in Houston for MD Anderson Hospital 11 and Cancer Research Institute as a research biochemist. 12 Q. What years did you spend with OSHA? 13 A. 1973 through 19 -- well, the latter part of 1976, 14 July of ' 76 . 15 Q. You spent approximately three years with OSHA? 16 A. Approximately. 17 Q. Can you run through for me briefly your job duties 18 during that time? 19 A. I was an industrial hygienist with the Houston area 20 office of OSHA. Geographically we covered the area of 21 Houston metropolitan area over to the Golden Triangle area -22 Beaumont, Port Arthur, Orange -- up to the Austin area. 23 Q. How long did that last? 24 A. Well, for the three years that I was employed. 25 Q. You had the same job all three years? Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004705 1 A. Correct. Page 16 2 Q. Gotcha. Did you have a specific title, or was it 3 just industrial hygienist? 4 A. Well, the official title was compliance safety and 5 health officer, CSHO; but I was an industrial hygienist. You 6 could either be a safety specialist or industrial hygienist, 7 and my speciality was industrial hygiene. 8 Q. What were your day-to-day job duties as a 9 compliance safety and health officer? 10 A. It varied, but primarily it was investigating 11 working conditions in the working environment of the 12 facilities located in my area of responsibilities. And it 13 could be anything from a bakery to a steel mill to a chemical 14 plant or a refinery, just the mix of industries that you 15 would find in this area. 16 Q. What would bring about the need for you to go 17 investigate a facility? 18 A. Generally it would stem from three -- well, four, 19 actually -- potential sources. One would be fatality 20 investigations, complaint investigations, general scheduled 21 inspections, and special emphasis inspections. 22 Q. What's the special emphasis inspection? 23 A. In the early '70s OSHA had what they called their 2 4 "target health hazards programs," THHP; and it focused in on 25 I believe it was five agents that were special priority, Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004706 Page 17 1 involved cotton dust, silica, asbestos, lead. And I believe 2 those were the materials of interest. 3 Q. So, as part of the target health hazards program, 4 OSHA would go and inspect facilities where there was possible 5 silica or asbestos or lead contamination? 6 A. Correct. That was basically what we did when we 7 weren't either investigating fatalities or complaints. Those 8 were the first two priorities. Then the special emphasis was 9 the third priority, and then general scheduled or random 10 inspections were the last. 11 Q. Is there any way for you to go through this list of 12 kind of your job duties -- fatalities, complaints, and 13 scheduled inspections and special emphasis inspections -- and 14 during the three years there give me a percentage breakdown 15 on how much of your time you spent doing each category? 16 A. I'd say probably the least was the fatalities. 17 Generally fatality inspections were done by the safety 18 complaints officers. So, I was probably less than 10 percent 19 of my time involved fatalities. 20 Complaints, I would say probably about 20 to 25 percent. 21 The special emphasis program was probably maybe 20 percent, 22 and the balance would be the general scheduled. 23 Q. How many times did you investigate facilities owned 24 by Exxon during the 1973 to 1976 time period? 25 A. As I recall there was one instance where I Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004707 Page 18 1 accompanied a safety compliance officer, and I believe that 2 was at the Baytown refinery. As I recall there were no 3 violations or citations issued as a result of that site 4 inspection 5 Q. What was the purpose of y'all's inspection in that 6 instance - 7 A. I really don't recall. 8 Q. It wasn't part of the special emphasis -9 A. No. 10 Q. So, it wasn't an inspection where you went and 11 looked at asbestos contamination -12 A. No . 13 Q. -- or silica contamination? 14 A. No . 15 Q. Now, from the compliance safety -- I'm sorry. 16 Start over 17 Is that a division, compliance safety and health? You 18 were a compliance safety and health officer -- 19 A. That was just the title of any. quote, "OSHA 20 inspector. " That was their overall title. and within that 21 you could have the safety specialist or an industrial 22 hygienist. But under credentials and with your picture, it 23 would say "United States Department of Labor, Occupational 24 Safety and Health Administration, Compliance Safety and 25 Health Officer." Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004708 Page 19 1 Q. Is that another way of saying OSHA inspector? 2 A. Yeah. 3 Q. How many OSHA inspectors were there in your office? 4 Was it one office in the Houston to Golden Triangle area? 5 A. At that time. Later it became two after I left 6 OSHA. 7 Q. So, from 1973 to 1976 when you were there, there 8 was one OSHA office for the greater Houston and Golden 9 Triangle -10 A. Correct. 11 Q. How many people -- how many OSHA inspectors worked 12 in that office? 13 A. I think initially when I joined OSHA in 1973, we 14 had approximately ten OSHA inspectors. By the time I had 15 left in '76, I think that number had risen to about 25. 16 Q. I know you weren't there, but do you know when they 17 opened the second office? 18 A. I think it was about 1978; and I think about the 19 time I was leaving, they opened a Beaumont district office 20 where they had two or three employees in the Beaumont area. 21 Q. So, around 1976 they actually opened up a second 22 office in that area; and that was located in Beaumont, 23 correct? 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. They had two or three compliance officers there -- Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004709 1 A. Right. Page 20 2 Q. Or OSHA inspectors? 3 A. Right. 4 Q. Then in about 1978 they opened a second office in 5 Houston. This would have been the third office total -- 6 A. Correct. There was a Houston north and a Houston 7 south office at that point. 8 Q. Which one was the main office, the original office? 9 Was that Houston north or Houston south? 10 A. I believe it would have been Houston north. 11 Q. In 1978 do you know if they added any more OSHA 12 inspectors when they opened up the second office; or did they 13 transfer out of the existing 25 inspectors for -- 14 A. I really don't know, but that was after I actually 15 had left. 16 Q. Sure. Of the 25 inspectors who were with OSHA in 17 the greater Houston and Golden Triangle office in 1976 when 18 you left. have you kept up with any of them after you left? 19 Were you friends with any of them? 20 A. I did for probably the first five or six years 21 because I was still in the Houston area at the time, but I 22 couldn't tell you where they are now. 23 Q. So, you stayed in the Houston area? 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. After you left OSHA? Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004710 1 A. Yes. Page 21 2 Q. How many years did you stay in the Houston area? 3 A. Well, let's see. I was here until 1981. 4 Q. So, about five years after you are left? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. That's what you said. 7 A. Uh-huh. 8 Q. So, during that time period, at least, you still 9 had -- I mean, you worked with those guys on a daily basis at 10 OSHA, right, when you were there? 11 A. Sure . 12 Q. And I mean, you knew who they were, I guess is what 13 my point is -- 14 A. Right, correct. 15 Q. -- because you worked with them on a daily basis. 16 But then you lost kind of your -- whatever your relationship 17 with them after you left Houston? You didn't keep up with 18 them -- 19 A. That's basically when I didn't really have any 20 further - - you know, I'd see them occasionally, like, at the 21 annual hygiene conference I attended. 22 Q. Right. 23 A. But I didn't have any day-to-day relationship with 24 them. 25 Q. All right. But you don't know what they're doing Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004711 1 today, is my point? Page 22 2 A. No, I sure don't. 3 Q. But back when you were working in the OSHA office. 4 y'all were friends, right, with -- I mean, the 25 inspectors. 5 A. Well, I wasn't -- I wouldn't say I was friends with 6 all 25. I knew them, and I don't really recall doing 7 anything socially with them. I mean, we'd go out to lunch. 8 that type of thing. 9 Q. That's not what I meant. I'm sorry. 10 A. Okay. 11 Q. You had a working relationship with them when you 12 left OSHA , correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Of those 25 inspectors -- and you didn't have any 15 enemies over there; did you? 16 A. Not that I know of. In fact, I went back several 17 times and I demonstrated some technology that I had developed 18 actually when I was with Exxon. 19 Q. Okay. Can you tell me about that? 20 A. It was a computer system, and it's covered in the 21 depositions that you'll see. 22 Q. Okay. Great. 23 A. And I went back to show them how we were 24 computerizing this for industrial hygiene records. So, yeah. 25 we had an ongoing relationship. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004712 Page 23 1 Q. Do you know out of those 25 inspectors how many 2 ended up leaving OSHA for jobs in industry? 3 A. I'm only aware of, that I know of, one. 4 Q. And do you know who he went to work for? He or 5 she? 6 A. I believe he went to work for Exxon. Bruce 7 Simpson. 8 Q. Did you know Bruce Simpson after he left OSHA? Did 9 you ever see him? 10 A. Occasionally I would see him. 11 Q. Y'all were in the same department? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Was he an industrial hygienist? 14 A. Yes . 15 Q. All right. So, we're up to 1976. After 1976 or 16 after you left OSHA in 1976, what did you do? 17 A. I went to work for Exxon Chemical Company in 18 Houston at the Houston chemical plant on the ship channel. 19 Q. How long did you work with Exxon Chemical? 20 A. I believe it was about two years. 21 Q. Let me get a time line, and we'll come back to 22 that. What did you do after that? 23 A. Went to work for Mobil, Mobil Chemical in Houston. 24 Q. Were you at the plant? 25 A. I was located in Greenway Plaza. I had a regional Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004713 1 responsibility for several plants. Page 24 2 Q. How long did you do that? 3 A. Did that until 1981. 4 Q. 1981? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. What did you do after that? 7 A. I was transferred -- and promoted -- to Edison, New 8 Jersey, and was supervisor of industrial hygiene for Mobil 9 Chemical Company. 10 Q. How long did you hold that position? 11 A. Until 1984. 12 Q. What next? 13 A. Then I was transferred and promoted to Mobil 14 corporate and safety hygiene department. And let's see. 15 Where was I located? 16 Q. Wait. So, after 1978 -- we're up to 1984 right 17 now. Did you spend your time in the plants even though you 18 held -- you had an executive office? 19 A. Yes. In terms of my job with Mobil Chemical, that 20 was, like , a working supervisor's job. So, I did do quite a 21 bit of fieldwork. And as the industrial hygienist in 22 Houston, I was responsible for industrial hygiene for any 23 facilities west of the Mississippi; and that included about 24 18 facilities. 25 Q. Have you read any of the records regarding Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004714 1 Mr. Altimore's employment with Exxon? Page 25 2 A. Well, yes, just by reading the deposition -- 3 Q. Yes, sir. 4 A. -- of his wife. 5 Q. Right. 6 A. I have a general feeling for what he did. 7 Q. What's your understanding of when he worked for 8 Exxon, what he did? 9 A. It's my understanding that he went to work for 10 Exxon in Baytown in the early 1940s. Then he worked 11 initially for just several weeks as a laborer. Then he 12 became a machinist trainee and then eventually became a 13 machinist . And then in 1968 he transferred from the refinery 14 to the Baytown polyolefins plant where he worked until he 15 retired. I believe, in the early '70s, early to mid '70s. 16 Q. Are those two separate facilities? 17 A. They're located contiguous to each other. You can 18 see on this chart. 19 Q. There's a fence separating them? 20 A. I believe so. 21 Q. So, like one of these chain-link fences? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. Just from an operational perspective, how do you 24 describe the difference between the olefins plant and the 25 Baytown refinery? Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004715 Page 26 1 A. Well, there's quite a bit of difference . A 2 refinery obviously makes petroleum products whereas a 3 polyolefins plant makes basically polypropylene. which is a 4 plastic material. 5 Q. Do both processes involve high heat -- 6 A. Well, obviously the refinery does. The 7 polypropylene plant has very -- the only area where you have 8 a high temperature is in the reactors themselves. Other than 9 that, all the operations are at ambient or room temperature. 10 Q. Let me show you what has been marked as Larson 11 Exhibit No. 19. Could you just take this little pink 12 highlighter -- 13 A. Is that what that is? 14 Q. Isn't that neat? They have everything up here. 15 -- and mark the boundary of both plants? In other 16 words. with the pink I want you to mark the boundary; and 17 then we can mark the dividing line. 18 A. (Witness complies) Basically it would be this. 19 Anything north of that pink mark would be the chemical side. 20 Q. Now, so, you have not marked the entire boundary. 21 though. of the Baytown refinery, correct? 22 A. I could if you'd like me to. It's just 23 basically -- 24 Q. Would you mind doing that for me? 25 A. Let me make sure that's right before I do it. This Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004716 Page 27 1 is used as a railroad track. So, the vast majority of the 2 site is devoted to refinery operations. 3 Q. Great. Thank you very much. So, on Larson No. 19, 4 you have outlined the outer perimeter of the Baytown Exxon 5 refinery. correct? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. And to the north of the perimeter is the olefins 8 plant you mentioned, correct? 9 A. Correct. As we see it labeled -10 Q. We can say that they're adjacent to one another? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. And it's your understanding that Mr. Altimore 13 worked in the Baytown refinery, the part that's surrounded by 14 the pink marks here, from the early 1940s until at least 15 1968, correct? 16 A. Initially, yes, that part of his career, he did. 17 Q. And you don't have any records that would indicate 18 otherwise , correct? 19 A. No . 20 Q. Now, can you -- 21 MR. GARDNER: Actually, here is a copy of 22 the records which might speed that along a little bit. 23 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Well, let me hand you what has been 24 marked as Larson Exhibit No. 2. What is that document? 25 A. It looks like his personnel records in terms of his Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004717 Page 28 1 job assignments during the period that he worked for Exxon. 2 Q. Is that all the personnel records that you've ever 3 seen pertaining to Mr. Altimore? 4 A. I believe it is, yes. 5 Q. For instance, looking on Page 1, what does Page 1 6 tell us? 7 A. This page? 8 Q. No, sir, the first page. Just in summary. 9 A. In summary it shows the department, the position. 10 the rate of pay, and the date of each of his job assignments. 11 Q. May I see that? 12 A. Uh-huh. 13 Q. Thanks. Is it related to a particular year here? 14 I don't know how to read that. 15 A. Yes, in this column it gives the dates 16 (indicating). 17 Q. I see. Okay. Now, is Page 2 a continuation of 18 Page 1; or is that a separate, completely separate document? 19 A. Okay. It looks like when he moved from the 20 refinery to the chemical company, they used a different form; 21 but it basically shows the same information for his 22 assignment in Mobil Chemical. I mean, Exxon Chemical. 23 Q. So, Page 2 at the top is entitled "Exxon Chemical 24 Personnel Record," correct? 25 A. Correct. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004718 Page 29 1 Q. And it shows that Mr. Altimore was a machinist. 2 correct? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. And the date begins in 1968? Did I read that 5 correctly 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. Now, I notice over here on Page 1 that the records 8 that y'all had go from when to when with respect to 9 Mr. Altimore? 10 A. Let's see. They start in 1942 through 1955 at the 11 refinery and then from 1968 to -- let's see -- 1976 for Exxon 12 Chemical. 13 MR. GARDNER: Just let -- 14 MR. HEARD: Please help me out in any 15 way -16 MR. GARDNER: On this document it looks 17 like it actually has a date of 1966 when he transferred 18 to the chemical side. 19 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) But here is my question: You 20 understand that Mr. Altimore was employed by Exxon between 21 1955 and 1968, correct? 22 A. Well, actually till, what, in the '70s, actually. 23 Q. Yes, sir. And he was employed after 1968. I 24 understand that. 25 A. Correct. Correct. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004719 Page 30 1 Q. But I'm just wondering: Would there be any other 2 records? Am I missing something here? Would there be - 3 A. There seems to be a gap on these two sheets of a 4 period from -- let's see -- March of 1955 until January of 5 '68. 6 Q.Why would there be a gap there? 7 A. I don't know; but from reading, I guess, the 8 deposition of Mr. Stovall, and his wife, I came to the 9 conclusion that he continued to work as a machinist in the 10 refinery until I guess it was 1966 when he moved to Exxon 11 Chemical. 12 Q. Well, yeah, their testimony can bear that out; but 13 I guess what I'm saying is: Is there any kind of document 14 retention problem that you envision as to why they wouldn't 15 have records regarding Mr. Altimore between 1955 to 1968? 16 A. I can't really speak to that. I just assume it 17 wasn't available for some reason, either it was misfiled or 18 misplaced. That's all I can - 19 Q. All right. That's fine. In your duties with OSHA, 20 did you ever visit the Exxon olefins or Exxon-Baytown 21 Chemical plant as an inspector? 22 A. No, not when I was with OSHA. 23 Q. During your time at OSHA, could you just share with 24 us how many chemical plants, refineries, and other facilities 25 were under y'all's jurisdiction in the greater Houston area Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004720 1 and Golden Triangle area from 1973 to 1976? Page 31 2 A. I would say probably be in the range of hundreds. 3 Probably , I'd say, between two or 300. 4 Q. Two to 300? 5 A. Uh-huh. 6 Q. No way that y'all are going to visit everyone, I 7 guess, during your three-year period? 8 A. Not me personally. I would imagine between the 25 9 compliance officers within a three- to five-year period 10 probably each of those facilities had been inspected at some 11 point. 12 Q. Either for a fatality -- 13 A. Complaints. 14 Q. -- a complaint -- 15 A. Special emphasis or general schedule. 16 Q. But under the special emphasis program at OSHA, 17 there's no way for y'all to go test every facility under your 18 jurisdiction, at least while you were there, correct? 19 A. That's correct. We had to set priorities. We had 20 to rank facilities by what we felt the risk would be. 21 Q. And the priorities were fatalities, complaints, and 22 then special -- 23 A. Special emphasis. 24 Q. -- special emphasis? 25 A. Correct. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004721 Page 32 1 Q. That was the one where you look at asbestos and 2 silica and things of that nature? 3 A. Right. Lead, cotton dust. 4 Q. When you performed a special emphasis inspection. 5 what were you looking for? Were you looking for industrial 6 hygiene controls, air monitoring, respiratory protection 7 programs 8 A. Yes, all of that. Typically do exposure monitoring 9 to determine exposure levels and also document what type of 10 protective measures were in place, what types of training 11 were in place. 12 Q. How many facilities do you think that you 13 personally visited under the special emphasis program at 14 OSHA? 15 A. I would estimate -- let's see -- like I said, it 16 was about 20 percent. I performed 300 inspections. So, it 17 would be 20 percent of that. 18 Q. 60 about? Neighborhood? 19 A. Yeah. 20 Q. 60. Probably visited 60 facilities? 21 A. Sure . 22 Q. Between 1973 and 1976? 23 A. Approximately. 24 Q. And many of those facilities would be visited 25 because of their use of asbestos insulation? Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004722 1 A. Some. Page 33 2 Q. During that time period, did you ever visit a 3 facility that required its workers to wear respiratory 4 protection products while they were working around asbestos 5 insulation? 6 A. I can recall one in particular, yes. 7 Q. Which one was that? 8 A. Standco Industries on the ship channel. It was a 9 textile operation where they were weaving asbestos into the 10 brake blocks for the oil rigs. 11 Q. Other than that, no others required respiratory 12 protection when working around asbestos, say, pipe insulation 13 and block insulation, as an example? 14 A. When it was being removed, yes, I can recall 15 several chemical plants and also the British Petroleum 16 refinery in Port Arthur. 17 THE REPORTER: Wait. Which one? 18 THE WITNESS: British Petroleum. 19 A. It was FINA at one time. Then it was British 20 Petroleum. 21 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) What kind of respiratory protection 22 was provided, if you recall, when you went to inspect those 23 places ? 2 4 A. Would have been a NIOSH approved dust respirator. 25 That's what we look for. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004723 1 Q. Cartridge respirator? Page 34 2 A. Either cartridge or there's an 8710 model that's 3 approved for asbestos. 4 Q. Did you find that most of the companies, if ever 5 anybody required respiratory protection, that the most 6 popular protection that they would provide would be the 8710 7 respirator? 8 A. It varied. Some did. Some didn't. It was 9 basically, I think, personal choice. I think most people 10 when they develop a respiratory protection program offer the 11 employees a selection to give them the opportunity to find 12 what they feel is the most comfortable as long as it's 13 effective. 14 Q. Right. When you left OSHA in 1976, was it your 15 understanding that the 8710 was effective to protect against 16 asbestos and silica -- 17 A. In '76, I believe, yes, that was approved by NIOSH 18 for use with pneumoconiosis. 19 THE REPORTER: I'm sorry? Approved by 20 what? 21 THE WITNESS: Approved by NIOSH. 22 MR. HEARD: N-I-O-S-H. 23 THE WITNESS: For pneumoconiosis-producing 24 dust. 25 MR. RADCLIFFE: Mr. Larson, you are Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004724 Page 35 1 answering very quickly. If you'll let Mr. Heard finish, 2 you're sometimes stepping on the end of his question. 3 MR. HEARD: Well, the reason you do that is 4 because I talk so slow that it's just miserable for 5 people to sit here and listen. You want to start 6 talking before I finish, and I understand it. I take no 7 offense whatsoever, but he's right. It's hard for the 8 court reporter. 9 THE WITNESS: Sorry. 10 MR. HEARD: No. No problem. 11 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) My question was a different 12 question. My question was: Was it your understanding at the 13 time you left OSHA in 1976 that a 3M 8710 dust mask was 14 effective against protecting against pneumoconiosis-producing 15 dust such as asbestos and silica? 16 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 17 A. I believe in 1976, my answer would have been yes. 18 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Did you ever change that opinion? 19 A. I've been out of the industrial hygiene field for a 20 while, and I practiced industrial hygiene until about -- 21 let's see. That would have been about 1989; and I believe 22 during the time I was a professional industrial hygienist, I 23 felt the 8710 was effective. Now it may -- things may have 2 4 changed since then. 25 Q. You would agree that Mr. Altimore would have been Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004725 Page 36 1 exposed to asbestos on a consistent and routine basis in his 2 job at Exxon-Baytown refinery up until 1966 or 1968, correct? 3 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 4 A. I don't think so. I don't think there is any 5 information that would show that he was routinely exposed, 6 no . 7 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) How do you think he was exposed, as 8 an industrial hygienist who worked with Exxon who was in 9 charge of that facility? 10 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 11 A. I really don't believe he would have any 12 significant exposure as a machinist. 13 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) So, your opinion at this trial is 14 going to be that Mr. Altimore had no exposure to asbestos 15 during the time he worked for Exxon? 16 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 17 A. I wouldn't say that. I can't agree with that, but 18 I'd say he did not have a significant exposure to asbestos 19 based on the information concerning his job and what he did 20 at the refinery. 21 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) How do you define "significant" in 22 your mind? 23 A. I'd say, as an industrial hygienist, a significant 2 4 exposure would be an exposure that exceeded either the 25 threshold limit value or the OSHA permissible exposure limit. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004726 Page 37 1 Q. Do you know of any information where the areas in 2 which Mr. Altimore worked during his time at Exxon were 3 tested for asbestos dust levels? 4 A. He was primarily assigned to the machine shop, and 5 to my knowledge, there is some information available on that. 6 Q. Is it here today with us? 7 A. I don't think so. 8 Q. Have you seen it? 9 A. No, I haven't. 10 Q. So, it's your understanding that there are -- well, 11 that first , that the only place Mr. Altimore worked as a 12 machinist at Exxon was in the machine shop? 13 A. No, no. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that was 14 his primary work location. He did do work out in the units 15 from time to time. 16 Q. Yes, sir. And what is your understanding of his 17 work? 18 A. He worked primarily on rotating equipment in the 19 units from time to time if he would be required to go to a 20 location and remove a piece of equipment and either replace 21 it or take it back to his shop to repair it. 22 Q. What kind of equipment? Do you recall? 23 A. Things such as pumps, that type of thing. 24 Q. Is it your testimony that equipment and products 25 containing asbestos were never taken to the machine shop for Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004727 1 repair or for work on them? Page 38 2 A. It's my understanding that if there was a piece of 3 equipment that was insulated potentially with an 4 asbestos- containing insulation, that it was the 5 responsibility of either the insulator or the operating 6 personnel to remove the insulation before the machinist 7 actually took possession of the equipment. 8 Q. Your understanding of Mr. -- let me make sure I 9 understand this -- Mr. Altimore's exposure during his time at 10 Exxon is based upon two things, from what I gather so far: 11 One is the testimony that you have read in this case. 12 correct? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. That would be the testimony of who? 15 A. It would have been -- her name is Louise Altimore, 16 Mr. Altimore's wife and -- let's see -- Mr. Stovall. 17 Q. Jessie Stovall? 18 A. I believe that's correct. And then I read one 19 other deposition. I think his name was Kilian. 20 Q. So, your understanding of Mr. Altimore's exposure 21 to asbestos during his time at Exxon is based upon your 22 review of the testimony of Mrs. Altimore, correct? 23 A. Partially. 24 Q. Mr. Stovall, correct? 25 A. Partially. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004728 1 Q. And Mr. Kilian -- Page 39 2 A. Partially. And it's just my general understanding 3 of what a machinist does. 4 Q. The second thing that your opinion of his exposure 5 is based upon is your general understanding of what a 6 machinist does, correct? 7 A. Correct. And there's the third component, too. 8 Q. What is the third thing that your understanding of 9 Mr. Altimore's exposure while he was at Exxon was based on? 10 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 11 A. My understanding of Exxon's safety and health 12 programs and their procedures for handling asbestos or 13 asbestos- containing insulation, I should say. 14 MR. HEARD: Would you read back that 15 answer? 16 (Requested testimony was read back) 17 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Before coming here today, you had 18 an opportunity to meet with the lawyers for Exxon, correct? 19 A. For a time, yes. 20 Q. And you're being offered as an expert witness on 21 industrial hygiene matters? 22 A. That's my understanding. 23 Q. What is your understanding as to the purpose of 24 your testimony? What are you going to be testifying about? 25 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004729 Page 40 1 A. Testifying about the -- I think I just basically 2 covered this but about Exxon's safety and health programs and 3 their procedures for handling asbestos insulation safely. 4 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Is that basically the area of 5 testimony that you've given in the past for Mobil? 6 A. Yes, as it pertains to Mobil primarily. 7 Q. So, as you appreciate your job in this case, it's 8 to testify about Exxon's safety program as it relates to the 9 handling of asbestos? 10 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Have you ever worked as a 13 machinist? 14 A. Personally, no. 15 Q. You brought with you some documents here today that 16 are numbered Larson Exhibits 1 through 19, correct? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. Are these documents that came from your files? 19 A. They came from Exxon's file. 20 Q. Well, did the attorneys give them to you? 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. When did you come in to meet with the attorneys to 23 prepare for this deposition? 24 A. It was late yesterday afternoon. 25 Q. So, have you had an opportunity to review these Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004730 1 documents , Larson Exhibit Nos. 1 through 19? Page 41 2 A. Yes . 3 Q. Some of these documents, are they the safety and 4 health programs and procedures you were just talking about 5 regarding the handling of asbestos? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. Now, from 1976 to 1981 you were actually in 8 Houston, correct ? 9 A. That's correct. 10 Q. And from 1976 to 1978 you were in Houston working 11 at the Exxon Chemical plant, the physical location? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. And that is the plant that borders the 14 Exxon-Baytown refinery? 15 A. No, no, it was actually on the ship channel. 16 Q. That's the ship channel? 17 A. Uh-huh. 18 Q. When you moved to Greenway Plaza and you were 19 working for Mobil -- you with me? 20 A. Uh-huh. 21 Q. Did you have any further involvement with Exxon 22 facilities ? 23 A. No, but I did maintain contacts with Exxon 24 personnel 25 Q. And during your 1976 to 1978 employment with Exxon, Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004731 Page 42 1 you never visited the Exxon-Baytown refinery, correct? 2 A. No. I did. 3 Q. You did visit it? 4 A. Yes . 5 Q. In what capacity? 6 A. Let me back up. When I first joined Exxon, as part 7 of the orientation program -8 Q. Yes, sir. 9 A. -- I spent one month in Houston with the corporate 10 medical and industrial hygiene staff. After that month then 11 I spent two weeks each at each of Exxon's major refineries: 12 I spent two weeks at Baytown learning about their programs. 13 Then I spent two weeks in Baton Rouge learning about their 14 programs ; and then finally I spent an additional two weeks in 15 Bayonne, New Jersey, learning about their industrial hygiene 16 programs 17 Q. When you say "learning about their industrial 18 hygiene programs," what do you mean? What did you learn 19 about them? 20 A. Basically their approach to industrial hygiene as 21 it related to their facility, and that would cover a wide 22 variety of potential hazards. It would cover things like 23 noise exposure. It would cover things like hydrocarbon 24 exposure . It would cover safe handling of 25 asbestos -containing insulation procedures, respiratory Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004732 Page 43 1 protection, their medical surveillance programs, their 2 training programs. I believe that covers most of what they 3 would review with me. 4 Q. That's an awful lot of information; isn't it? 5 A. It is . 6 Q. How many hours a day did y'all work during those 7 two weeks? 8 A. Probably about ten hours a day. 9 Q. And did they have a classroom or something where 10 they taught you all this stuff? 11 A. No, it was hands-on, one-on-one. 12 Q. With who? 13 A. With the senior industrial hygienist at each 14 location. 15 Q. So, you would go -- let's focus on Baytown since 16 that's where we are in this case. You spent two weeks at the 17 Exxon-Baytown facility -18 A. Correct. 19 Q. And let's start with this: Other than that two 20 weeks at that Exxon-Baytown facility, you never visited the 21 facility. correct? 22 A. No, I did go back several times. 23 Q. For what purpose? 24 A. At the time industrial hygiene for both Exxon 25 Chemical and the refining side was provided by the industrial Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004733 Page 44 1 hygienist at the refineries. So, for example, Eric LaBrock 2 was a senior industrial hygienist at the Baytown refinery; 3 but he also had responsibilities for the chemical facilities 4 that were there. So, we had a common connection in that I 5 was responsible for the chemical facility on the Houston ship 6 channel; and we met several times to discuss approaches that 7 were being taken at, say, the Baytown chemical site that 8 would also apply to the facility that I had responsibility 9 for. Plus they started building what they called the Baytown 10 olefins plant back in 1976, and I was given the primary 11 responsibility for developing the industrial hygiene programs 12 for that facility as it was being constructed. So, I had to 13 have a liaison with the Beaumont industrial hygiene staff in 14 that regard. 15 Q. With the Beaumont staff? 16 A. I'm sorry. The Baytown staff. 17 Q. So, the olefins facility is different from this 18 Exxon Chemical - 19 A. It's part of this north section here (indicating). 20 Q. But that wasn't developed until when? 21 A. It started up, I believe, in 1978, just about the 22 time I was leaving. 23 Q. You didn't have any supervisory involvement in the 24 industrial hygiene actual practices at the olefins plant, 25 correct? Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004734 Page 45 1 A. I did. I was responsible for developing the 2 programs that went into effect upon startup. 3 Q. Gotcha. You did not have that role with respect to 4 the Exxon-Baytown facility -- refinery? 5 A. The refinery, no. That's correct. 6 Q. Right. And you did not have that role with respect 7 to the Exxon-Baytown chemical facility, correct? 8 A. Well, with regard to the olefins plant, yes . Not 9 with the polyolefins where Mr. Altimore worked, no. 10 Q. That's what I'm talking about. 11 A. Right. 12 Q. And certainly it wasn't your job to tell 13 Mr. LaBrock what to do, right? 14 A. No . 15 Q. Mr. LaBrock had been with Exxon before you joined 16 the company, correct? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. And he was the person who was in charge of 19 industrial hygiene at the Baytown refinery, correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Who was the person in charge of industrial hygiene 22 at the Baytown chemical plant? And when I say "chemical 23 plant," let's have the agreement, just as you stated. that 24 we're talking about where Mr. Altimore worked. 25 A. It would also have been the same person, LaBrock. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004735 Page 46 1 Q. And Mr. LaBrock do you remember when he started 2 working for Exxon? 3 A. I could only estimate. I would say probably around 4 '73 or '74. 5 Q. It was after OSHA came out, correct? 6 A. I think so. I can't say for sure. 7 Q. All right. Now, what year did you spend your two 8 weeks at the Exxon-Baytown facility? 9 A. It would have been the first year. That would have 10 been 1976. 11 Q. Other than the two weeks that you spent at the 12 Exxon-Baytown facility in 1976 and the discussions that you 13 would have with Mr. LaBrock regarding the industrial hygiene 14 at the Exxon Chemical and refinery in Baytown -- 15 A. Uh-huh. 16 Q. -- you did not have any other involvement in the 17 industrial hygiene aspects of those two facilities, correct? 18 A. I'll agree with that in general although I did have 19 many discussions with Eric LaBrock and his assistant. 20 Q. Right. That's fair. I'm just trying to 21 understand -- 22 A. As far as being physically present? 23 Q. Yes, sir. 2 4 A. After those two weeks, I was there several times 25 for meetings; but I'd say that was the extent of it. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004736 Page 47 1 Q. I mean, you weren't out in the field testing 2 workers and things of that nature. I'm trying to figure out 3 where to go with this deposition. 4 A. No, that's correct. 5 Q. Your time after the two weeks and other than the 6 discussions that you and Mr. LaBrock would have , your time 7 would be time that was spent talking with Mr. LaBrock or his 8 staff about industrial hygiene issues, correct? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. And then you could use that information hopefully 11 maybe to help you with your industrial hygiene issues at the 12 olefins plant or the other facility at the ship channel? 13 A. Right. 14 Q. Or maybe they could use some of your information at 15 their facility, correct? 16 A. Right. 17 Q. That was the purpose of it? 18 A. Correct. And I think they relied on me, also, due 19 to the fact that I had the experience with OSHA ; and I was 20 very familiar with the OSHA regulations including asbestos. 21 Q. So that I can understand, then, the hands-on. 22 out-in-the-field experience that you had at the Exxon-Baytown 23 facility where Mr. Altimore worked was limited to the two 24 weeks you spent getting your industrial hygiene training at 25 that facility; is that correct? Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004737 1 A. Specific to Baytown? Page 48 2 Q. Yes, sir. 3 A. That is correct, but I've had quite a bit of 4 experience at other Exxon refineries and Mobil refineries. 5 Q. Right. 6 A. So, I understand the basic refining operation and 7 what a machinist does. 8 Q. I understand. But I just want to limit it to 9 Baytown 10 A. Okay. 11 Q. So, with respect to Baytown, the only hands-on. 12 out-in- the-field experience you had was during your two weeks 13 in 1976 , correct? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. All right. Now, you brought with you some -- 16 you've never met Mr. Altimore, correct? 17 A. No . 18 Q. You've brought with you some safety program 19 information and things of that nature from Exxon? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. We're going to go through these. 22 MR. HEARD: Can we take about a 23 three -minute break before we go through these? I want 24 to figure out what these are and educate me. 25 MR. GARDNER: Sure. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004738 Page 49 1 (Recess from 11:59 a.m. to 12:06 p.m.) 2 (Larson Exhibit No. 20 was marked) 3 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Mr. Larson, I want you to briefly 4 take a look at Larson Exhibits No. 2 through 20 and tell me 5 if these are all the documents that you're relying upon for 6 your testimony in this case. 7 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 8 A. (Views documents) That's all the documents that we 9 have here today. So, my answer, I guess, would be yes. 10 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Let's go through these as quickly 11 as we can. We've already looked at No. 2. There is an 12 Exhibit No. 1 -- here it is. 13 MR. GARDNER: Just so that we're clear, 14 these aren't the only documents he's relying on for his 15 opinion. These were the ones that were presented to him 16 to refresh his recollection. 17 MR. HEARD: Okay. What other documents are 18 there that are not here today? 19 MR. GARDNER: Other documents he's reviewed 20 in the past or were present when he was an employee. 21 These are just the ones that are offered for his review 22 in this case so far. 23 MR. HEARD: Just to put y'all on notice, if 2 4 you want to give me those documents when we resume in 25 Virginia, if we do, that will be fine. But I would Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004739 Page 50 1 certainly like an opportunity to review any documents 2 that he's looking at because I will be forced to object 3 to any testimony based on other documents that we 4 haven't gotten. 5 MR. GARDNER: Really, I just didn't want 6 him to be limited because I know he's looked at 7 industrial hygienist books and so forth in the past 8 which aren't here today. And I didn't want you to say 9 that these were all the documents that he's going to 10 rely upon for all of his opinion. 11 MR. RADCLIFFE: I think one of the problems 12 was that there is no notice of deposition. So, there's 13 no document request; and we just selected a couple 14 representative documents, not to be complete. Of 15 course, when we give you your exhibits, when we exchange 16 exhibits -- you give us yours, and we give you ours - 17 we'll have a complete set of exhibits that weintend to 18 offer at trial. So, there won't be anyproblem with 19 that. 20 MR. HEARD: But respectfully, you know, I'm 21 not going to have an opportunity to ask him questions in 22 the deposition about those exhibits, is my problem. 23 Since we haven't been involved in the discussion on how 24 we got here today, let's leave that to other people; and 25 let's move on with the deposition. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004740 Page 51 1 MS. KYLE: That's a good idea. 2 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) All right. What is Larson No . 3? 3 A. Larson No. 3 is an accident prevention manual for 4 the Baytown refinery dated October 1st, 1949. 5 Q. Who drafted it? 6 A. Would have been drafted. in my opinion, by a 7 committee at the refinery that was given the responsibility 8 for writing the safety manual. 9 Q. What refinery? 10 A. Baytown. 11 Q. Why do you say that? 12 A. Because it says "Humble Oil and Refining 13 Department." 14 Q. Did Humble Oil only have one refinery at that time? 15 A. Let's see. In '49? I'm not sure. It was either 16 just Baytown or Baytown and Baton Rouge. It could have 17 possibly been two. I can't really answer your question . I 18 think probably -- let's see. It's signed by Mr. Ferguson. 19 So, if we knew if he was at Baytown or Baton Rouge, we would 20 probably have the answer to that. 21 Q. Did you ever draft one of these types of similar 22 documents when you were in the employ of Exxon? 23 A. Yes. I was secretary of the safety committee at 24 the Houston chemical plant on the ship channel, and it was my 25 responsibility to help draft and revise safety manuals for Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004741 1 that plant. Page 52 2 Q. Can you mark in Exhibit No. 3 the discussion 3 regarding protecting workers against hazards of asbestos? 4 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 5 A. (Views document) 6 MR. GARDNER: Denman, just so I can be 7 clear on what your question is, you want him to actually 8 mark all the places in that manual - 9 MR. HEARD: I just want him to show -- he 10 understands the question. I just want him to show me 11 where it talks about things that protect from asbestos. 12 A. Well, it's covered on Page 146 under "respiratory 13 protection," specifies the respirators that are to be used 14 specifically for when handling asbestos-containing materials. 15 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) What page is that on? 16 A. Be Page 146. 17 Q. Just take this highlighter. Don't highlight the 18 whole section. Highlight the title of the section. 19 A. Okay. 20 Q. And does what you just highlighted on Page 146, the 21 words entitled "dust respirators," does that represent -- the 22 paragraphs following that title -- the respirator protection 23 program in place at the Baytown facility during 1949? 2 4 A. Well, no, it specifies the type of respirator to be 25 worn when handling asbestos materials. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004742 Page 53 1 Q. Okay. So, is that the only area in Exhibit No. 3 2 that discusses protection against asbestos? 3 A. In this particular manual it would be. It's also 4 my understanding that there were more details, specific 5 procedures, regarding work practices. 6 Q. I want to focus on Larson No. 3 since that's what 7 was; produced here -- 8 A. Sure . 9 Q. There may have been a whole host of other stuff -- 10 A. Okay. 11 Q. In Larson No. 3, Accident Prevention Manual, dated 12 October 1, 1949, correct? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. This is a manual that is used by the safety people 15 at Exxon , correct? 16 A. It would be available to the safety people as well 17 as employees. 18 Q. Right. But accident prevention manuals of this 19 nature in 1949 aren't handed out in their entirety to all the 20 employees, correct? 21 A. It's my understanding that they would be available 22 in each unit in the refinery. 23 Q. Right. Let's say you had an employee who was 24 working as a pipefitter. I see "pipefitter" right there 25 (indicating) . Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004743 1 A. Uh-huh. Page 54 2 Q. This isn't something that was the customary 3 operation of Exxon to give each employee a separate copy of 4 this document? That doesn't happen, correct? 5 A. No, it wouldn't fit in his hip pocket. That's for 6 sure. They did have a condensed safety rules that each 7 individual had, but each individual had access to this in 8 their work area. It's so comprehensive you couldn't distill 9 it into something that was -- 10 Q. That's my point. That's normal industrial hygiene 11 practice. You don't give employees a 173-page, you know, 12 somewhat scientific document to read over and understand? 13 A. They wouldn't physically give it to them but they 14 would have it available and they would base a lot of their 15 training programs on the contents of the manual. 16 Q. I forgot what I was asking way back when. Oh, so 17 this is the -- I mean, is this kind of the main document, the 18 accident prevention manual, as far as safety goes at this 19 time? 20 A. It's the, I guess, the core program basically. 21 Q. For workers' safety? 22 A. Right. 23 Q. Okay. And I'm simply asking you -- you mentioned 2 4 Page 146. Is there anywhere else besides 146, once I get 25 home and I can read this whole thing, that I need to look for Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004744 1 protection against asbestos? Page 55 2 A. In this particular manual? 3 Q. Yes, sir. 4 A. To my knowledge, that's the main section. 5 Q. But to your knowledge, there are no other sections? 6 A. In that particular manual, no. There may have been 7 other procedures that aren't part of the manual. 8 Q. But we're going to get through this, and I'm going 9 to politely ask you to just keep in mind what my question is 10 because you're going way beyond what my question is. Is that 11 okay? 12 A. Fair enough. 13 Q. All right. Larson No. 4, what is that document? 14 A. This is a document that summarizes the industrial 15 health program at one of Exxon's refineries. I believe in 16 this case it's for the Baton Rouge refinery. Talks about 17 measures that are taken to prevent exposures to toxic 18 materials and the medical surveillance programs that have 19 been developed to monitor employees' health in ways that 20 employees can stay fit and healthy basically. 21 Q. Exhibit No. 4 is from what year? 22 A. That would have been, I believe, 1962. 23 Q. Exhibit No. 4 is entitled what, sir? 24 A. "To Your Good Health at Esso." 25 Q. This is a document that pertains to the Baton Rouge Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004745 1 facility. correct? Page 56 2 A. It's my understanding. 3 Q. So, this is not a document that pertains to the 4 Baytown facility, correct? 5 A. Correct. Although I believe they had similar 6 approaches 7 Q. Well, again, I didn't ask you if you believe they 8 have similar approaches. Okay? 9 A. Okay. 10 Q. I asked: This is not a document that pertains to 11 the Baytown facility; and your answer was no, right? I mean. 12 your answer was it does not pertain to the Baytown -- 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. -- facility? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. Is the word "asbestos" mentioned in here? 17 A. I don't recall. 18 Q. I'm showing you Larson No. 5. Could you tell us 19 what that is, please? 20 A. All right. It's a "Safety Rules and Safe 21 Practices" for the refining department dated June 22nd, 1936, 22 for Humble Oil and Refining. 23 Q. Did you say 1936? 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. What is the purpose of that document? Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004746 Page 57 1 A. It's similar to the later document that we just 2 discussed in that it outlines some of the core safety and 3 health programs for the refineries. 4 Q. This will be something that would apply to the 5 Baytown facility, correct? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. Where Mr. Altimore worked? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. Now, with respect to Exhibit No. 3, you said this 10 was the core program, correct? 11 A. Uh-huh. This is an earlier version. 12 Q. This is an earlier version of the core safety 13 program for workers' safety, correct? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. Would you show me the parts that pertain to 16 protection against asbestos? 17 A. Okay. (Views document) Okay. It would be on 18 Page 96; and if you'd like me to. I'll mark it. 19 Q. Thank you. You're going to mark the part 20 pertaining to asbestos with the yellow highlighter, correct? 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. And that is Exhibit No. 5, right? 23 A. Correct. Just to clarify, I don't know if it 24 specifically addresses asbestos. It's under "Toxic Dust" and 25 it gives examples of toxic dust and I don't know if I see Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004747 1 asbestos listed or not. Page 58 2 Q. But you believe that's the part of Exhibit No. 5 3 that would deal with protecting workers against the asbestos 4 hazard. correct? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And so, here in this document entitled "Safety 7 Rules and Safe Practices, June 22nd, 1936," Exxon is taking 8 steps -- it would be your opinion, I guess -- to protect 9 workers against the asbestos hazard, correct? 10 A. Virtually any toxic dust, and that includes 11 asbestos 12 Q. Well, that's my question. Is asbestos not other 13 toxic dust? In this document, "Safety Rules and Safe 14 Practices, 1936," Exxon, you believe, is taking steps to 15 protect their workers against the asbestos hazard, correct? 16 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 17 A. I would assume that would include asbestos, yes. 18 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Well, that's what you said earlier. 19 right, when you said that's the steps they're taking in this 20 document to protect the workers against the asbestos hazard. 21 correct? 22 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 23 A. It's respiratory protection. It covers respiratory 24 protection. 25 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) So, is that a "yes" or "no"? Does Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004748 1 that protect against asbestos hazard? Page 59 2 A. Respiratory protection? 3 Q. Yes, sir. 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. So, is it your testimony in this document, Larson 6 Exhibit No. 5, that this is Exxon's attempt -- this section 7 you've nighlighted -- to protect workers against the asbestos 8 hazard? 9 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 10 A. Only with respect to respiratory protection. It 11 doesn't address work practices and that type of thing. 12 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Work practices are not in there? 13 A. Not in there. It's respirators. 14 Q. But this is the core of the program in 1936? 15 A. Core, but there would be other procedures for 16 specialized operations. 17 Q. My question is: With respect to the respirator 18 section here that you highlighted in Exhibit No. 5, that is 19 Exxon's attempt, in your opinion, to protect workers against 20 the asbestos hazard in 1936, correct? 21 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 22 A. That would only be part of it. 23 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) That was part of their attempt -- 24 A. Part of -- 25 Q. Is that going to be your -- Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004749 1 A. Correct. Page 60 2 Q. Do you have any other documents here that show 3 Exxon's other attempts in 1936 to protect workers against the 4 asbestos hazard? 5 A. Let's see. Yes. 6 Q. Thank you. I'm handing you Larson Exhibit No. 18. 7 Would you tell me what that is, please? 8 A. It's a report that was issued by Exxon's chief 9 safety inspector titled "Dust Producing Operations in the 10 Production of Petroleum Products and Associated Activities"; 11 and it' s dated July, 1937. 12 Q. Would you please turn to the sections of Exhibit 13 No. 18 which deal with protecting workers against the 14 asbestos hazard? 15 A. Okay. That would be Page 73 -- if I can read 16 this -- titled "Measures for Reduction of Dust Hazards." 17 Q. So, when I'm looking at this document later. 18 Page 73 is where the section begins on protecting the workers 19 from asbestos hazard, correct? 20 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 21 A. Asbestos among other dust hazards but asbestos 22 would definitely be included, yes. 23 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) And that's 1939? 24 A. '37. 25 Q. 1937. We just looked at a document. Exhibit No. 5, Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004750 Page 61 1 from 1936 entitled "Safety Rules and Safe Practices," right? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. You mentioned that that was a core kind of safety 4 rules and practices but that there was other information 5 also? 6 A. Yes. Things such as engineering standards and 7 specific. like, confined space entry procedures, lockout/tag 8 out. Yes , there would be corollary procedures for specific 9 jobs . 10 Q. Larson No. 18, is this a core safety document for 11 Exxon in 1937? 12 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 13 A. I would say yes. 14 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) This, again, is not something that 15 Exxon hands out to employees, correct? 16 A. The report was basically the basis for establishing 17 safe work practices. 18 Q. Right. But this is something that the industrial 19 hygiene people or -- did Exxon have industrial hygiene people 20 on staff back in 1937 that you know of? 21 A. I think that came a little bit later. 22 Q. Right. 23 A. I think safety handled the health aspects. 24 Q. So, the safety department? 25 A. Correct. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004751 Page 62 1 Q. So, this is something that the people who weren't 2 working with supervisors and things of that nature would talk 3 with the supervisors about, correct? 4 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 5 A. Obviously that's before my time, but I would assume 6 that they would. 7 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) That's a good point. All of these 8 documents you have here today are before your time, correct? 9 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 10 A. Correct, although I have had the opportunity to 11 talk to some of the people that were involved with it. For 12 example. Jim Hammond was the first industrial hygienist for 13 Humble Oil. And I've known him for a number of years. I'm 14 familiar with the background on some of these documents. 15 MR. HEARD: Objection; nonresponsive. 16 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Let me ask my question again: All 17 of these documents that we're going over that you brought 18 with you today are from a time period before you were 19 employed with Exxon, correct? 20 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 21 A. I don't know if all of them are. I'd say the 22 ma j ority are, at least. 23 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) If they're dated before 1973, it's 24 before your time? 25 A. Correct. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004752 Page 63 1 Q. You didn't have any involvement with Exxon -2 A. Right. 3 Q. -- industrial hygiene program or anything else with 4 Exxon before 1973, correct? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. So, all of these documents that are dated prior to 7 1973 were drafted by or put together by or utilized by people 8 other thar yourself? 9 A. That's correct. 10 Q. And you have no personal knowledge other than the 11 conversations with people at Exxon about how they were 12 implemented? 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q. And that would apply, for example, to Larson No. 18 15 as an example of these documents that are before your time. 16 then, correct? 17 A. Correct. Can I add one thing? 18 Q. Well, if it's about a conversation you had with 19 somebody. no . 20 A. From my own experience, I can say that we had -- 21 when I came to the company, we had programs that were very 22 similar to the ones that were drafted at that early date. 23 That's what I would say. 24 MR. HEARD: I would say "Objection; 25 nonresponsive." Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004753 1 A. Okay. Page 64 2 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) I would be remiss if we left this 3 deposition and I didn't ask you some questions about while 4 you were at Exxon. So, can I do that real quick with you 5 just so I can know and continue going through these 6 documents? 7 A. Sure. 8 Q. From 1973 to 1976 is it going to be your testimony 9 at this trial that safety issues related to protecting 10 workers from dust hazards were the same at all the various 11 refineries that Exxon owned? 12 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 13 A. Well, first of all, it would have been '76 to '78 14 that I was with Exxon. 15 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) I'm sorry. My fault. Thank you. 16 During that time period? 17 A. I would say, yes, they were comparable. 18 Q. They were comparable? 19 A. Comparable. 20 Q. Can't say the same, but your position would be they 21 were comparable? 22 A. Based on the times I spent and during the 23 orientations and just conversations I've had, I'd say they 2 4 were comparable. 25 Q. How many different refineries were there that Exxon Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004754 1 owned? Page 65 2 A. There were a total of -- in the U.S. there were 3 probably about five, three major and then two smaller ones 4 Q. Did each have different industrial hygiene controls 5 in place for protection against the asbestos hazard? 6 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 7 A. I'd say no, but they were comparable. There was a 8 single program that was implemented out of Houston, and I 9 have a copy of that here. 10 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Where is that document? 11 A. It's dated 1972. This is it. 12 Q. I hand you Larson Exhibit No. 13. Can you tell us 13 what that is, please? 14 A. This is "Asbestos Handling Guidelines for Humble 15 Oil and Refining Company" and "Enjay Chemical Company" by 16 James W. Hammond, dated September 1st, 1972. 17 Q. Is Larson Exhibit No. 13 the first time Exxon came 18 out with an asbestos handling guide? 19 A. Not to my understanding. 20 Q. When was the first time, to your understanding? 21 A. I believe it dates back to this 1937 record by 22 Mr. Bonsib. 23 Q. Do you have that here with you today? 24 A. That's the one we just reviewed. 25 Q. Well, that's not an asbestos handling guideline. is Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004755 1 it, like Exhibit No. 13? Page 66 2 A. It goes into virtually the same areas as this one. 3 This one was modified to meet specific OSHA regulatory 4 requirements in terms of type of placarding the wording, for 5 example; but it addresses many of the same topics. 6 Q. So, you think that Larson Exhibit No. 13 is just 7 kind of an updated version of Larson No. 18 from 1937 in 8 order to comply with OSHA? 9 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 10 A. It's been -- what's the right word -- tailored to 11 meet the regulatory specifics that were contained in the OSHA 12 asbestos regulations. 13 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Who was this sent to, the asbestos 14 handling guidelines? 15 A. That would have been sent to essentially any 16 facility where it was known that asbestos-containing 17 materials were present. 18 Q. How many copies would they make of it? 19 A. I would guess -- I'm just -- I have no way of 20 knowing. but I would estimate -- I don't know -- 40 or 50 and 21 in turn would be copied at the site. 22 Q. Was this document, the asbestos-handling guidelines 23 evidenced in No. 13, in place when you joined Exxon? 24 A. In '76? 25 Q. Yes, sir. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004756 Page 67 1 A. Yes, sir, it was. In fact, it was one of the 2 programs I reviewed when I spent the one month in Houston. 3 Q. Why were you reviewing it? 4 A. So I'd be familiar with what Exxon was doing. 5 Q. You weren't reviewing it to critique it and suggest 6 changes? 7 A. No. And I was familiar already with the OSHA 8 asbestos regulations, but I wanted to make myself familiar 9 with what they had, in fact, implemented. 10 Q. Is this the type of document that's supposed to be 11 given to all the employees? 12 A. You know, I don't know that it was given to all 13 employees ; but it was used for training employees, as a 14 source document for that. But I don't know for a fact that 15 it was provided to all employees. 16 Q. After 1972, then, is it your testimony that all the 17 employees who worked around asbestos at an Exxon facility 18 were trained according to the asbestos handling guidelines in 19 Exhibit No. 13? 20 A. That's my understanding. 21 Q. Well, you were in charge of industrial -- or you 22 were in the industrial hygiene department with Exxon, right? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. So, your understanding would be a pretty good 25 understanding, wouldn't it, if I was talking to somebody from Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004757 1 Exxon, correct? Page 68 2 A. Absolutely. 3 Q. So, your understanding from 1976 to 1978 while you 4 were with Exxon was that any Exxon employee or any person who 5 is working -- like Mr. Altimore -- there for a long time 6 would be instructed and trained on these asbestos handling 7 guidelines if they worked around asbestos, correct? 8 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 9 A. If they worked around asbestos and that would 10 include not only employees but also contractors. 11 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) That would include contractors? 12 A. Right. 13 Q. So, then, what should be happening at the Exxon 14 refinery in Baytown from Exxon's industrial hygienist 15 perspective is that all employees and contractors who worked 16 around asbestos -- at least as of 1972 when this document was 17 written - - should be trained according to the asbestos 18 handling guidelines by Exxon, correct? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. And you expected that as a member of the industrial 21 hygiene staff? 22 A. Absolutely. 23 Q. You expected that the people who were in charge of 24 industrial hygiene at the representative Exxon facilities to 25 train all those Exxon employees and contractors according to Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004758 1 the asbestos handling guidelines in No. 13, correct? Page 69 2 A. Well, the industrial hygienist didn't actually do 3 the training. The safety department did that. Industrial 4 hygiene served as basically a resource to the safety 5 department. 6 Q. So, you expected the safety department at 7 Exxon-Baytown refinery and chemical plant to train all 8 employees and contractors who were exposed to asbestos 9 pursuant to the asbestos handling guidelines in No. 13, 10 correct? 11 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 12 A. Okay. Let me clarify this with regard to the 13 contractors. Some of the larger contractors like Brown & 14 Root had their own full-time safety or industrial hygiene 15 department. In that case, the larger contractors would do 16 their own training. There was no need for us to get directly 17 involved. If it was a smaller contractor who didn't have the 18 resources of, say. Brown & Root, then in that case we would 19 provide the training. 20 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Who were the smaller contractors? 21 Or maybe it would be easier if you told me who the bigger 22 contractors were. 23 A. I'd say Brown & Root. 2 4 Q. So, if it wasn't a Brown & Root contractor, then it 25 would fall into this kind of -- there may be an exception or Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004759 1 something Page 70 2 A. Correct, yeah; but -- 3 Q. All right. With that understanding, then -- so I 4 can move onto another document -- during your time with Exxon 5 from 1976 to 1978 you expected that the safety department at 6 Exxon-Baytown refinery and chemical plant would train all 7 employees and contractors other than Brown & Root according 8 to the asbestos handling guidelines represented in Exhibit 9 No. 13? 10 A. If they were deemed to have potential asbestos 11 exposure. 12 Q. If they were deemed to have potential asbestos 13 exposure. the answer to that question is yes? 14 A. Yes. We wouldn't train office workers, for 15 example. if they didn't go out into the refinery. 16 Q. But assuming that they were going to be exposed to 17 asbestos, then they needed to be trained by Exxon, correct? 18 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 19 A. I'll agree with that. 20 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) And one of the reasons you agree 21 with that is because they were on Exxon's property, right? 22 They were working for Exxon, correct? 23 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 24 A. Well, they were Exxon employees; and we had a 25 responsibility for that training, yes. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004760 Page 71 1 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Right. And people who weren't 2 Exxon's employees who were contractors who weren't with 3 Brown & Root, they needed to have that same kind of training 4 from Exxon because they were working at Exxon's request on 5 Exxon's property -6 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 7 A. Well, let me explain that. Ultimately it comes 8 down to -- it's the contractor's responsibility. 9 THE REPORTER: Sir, I need you to slow down 10 for me just a little bit. 11 THE WITNESS: Sorry. Sorry. 12 A. I need to clarify in that ultimately it's the -- 13 the contractor as the employer of the contract employees 14 ultimately has the responsibility. But again, if they were 15 smaller contractors that didn't have the resources that Exxon 16 had, then we would provide that expertise to them. 17 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Right. Because I mean, y'all, like 18 you saic , y'all had the resources to do that, right? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. And the knowledge? 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. And they hired people like you from OSHA, correct. 23 who had some knowledge about OSHA guidelines and things of 24 that nature, correct? 25 A. Correct. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004761 Page 72 1 Q. And Exxon knew -- we found today -- at least by 2 1937 -- was fully aware about the asbestos hazard, correct? 3 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 4 A. They were aware that asbestos is a potential 5 hazard, correct. 6 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Right. I mean, if they weren't 7 aware of the asbestos hazard, then, they wouldn't be writing 8 protection manuals from asbestos in 1937, right? 9 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) So, you're aware, you know, that 12 just a regular worker or a small, say, mom-and-pop shop type 13 contractor who doesn't have Exxon's resources even in the 14 '70s, many of them didn't know about the hazard that asbestos 15 presented? You agree with that? 16 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 17 A. I don't agree with that, no. By that time there 18 was an OSHA regulation in effect. 19 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) That's right. There was an OSHA 20 regulation, but that didn't necessarily translate to 21 everybody knowing about it unless they were told. That's why 22 Exxon was telling them, according to your testimony, about 23 the hazard and how to prevent it, right? 2 4 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 25 A. Well, what Exxon told them was that there was Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004762 Page 73 1 asbestos-containing insulation present and that they needed 2 to be aware of that and to comply with the OSHA regulation. 3 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Right, but what I'm saying is: You 4 would train them on asbestos handling guidelines when they 5 came to your property. That's what you expected your safety 6 people to do, right? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. And all I'm saying is that one of the reasons y'all 9 did that, I think you acknowledged, was because many of those 10 people didn't have the resources and knowledge, et cetera, 11 that Exxon had? 12 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 13 A. In some cases. 14 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) In this document, even when you 15 were there in 1976, four years later, you still expected your 16 safety people at the various refineries to train all those 17 workers pursuant to these same guidelines, right? 18 A. Well, if they didn't have the expertise that they 19 needed. 20 Q. We've already established that. And so, let's set 21 aside Brown & Root or whoever else it was; but you've 22 testified on numerous -- at least two or three times today 23 that you expected your safety people to train contractors' 2 4 employees even in 1976 - 25 A. No, I didn't say that the safety people would train Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004763 1 contractor employees. To make sure the contractor -- Page 74 2 Q. Contract - 3 A. -- had the knowledge for them -- 4 Q. Let me restate my question. Okay? "Contractor 5 and." I probably ran my words together. Let's go back. 6 You have stated that Exxon -- you in the industrial 7 hygiene department at Exxon expected the safety people to 8 train Exxon employees even when you were there in 1976 with 9 respect to the hazards of asbestos according to these 10 asbestos handling guidelines, right? 11 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 12 A. If they had potential exposure, yes. 13 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) If they had potential exposure, 14 right. If they didn't have exposure to any asbestos, there 15 wasn't, I guess, any need from Exxon's perspective to train 16 them about that, right? 17 A. They were trained on many things, and they didn't 18 need to be trained on something they weren't concerned with. 19 Q. Right. And that's fair. What I'm saying is that 20 one of the reasons that y'all would do that -- I'm not saying 21 it's a bad thing. I'm just saying one of the reasons y'all 22 would do that is because an employee who comes to work for 23 Exxon doesn't have the knowledge when he first steps on the 2 4 plant about those hazards that Exxon has, right? 25 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004764 1 A. When he first comes to work? Page 75 2 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Yes, sir. 3 A. Right. And, of course, we had an orientation 4 program to train them. 5 Q. And that's my whole point. So, my whole point is: 6 You' ve got to train them, right? 7 A. Sure . 8 Q. So you can give the worker the same appreciation of 9 the risk of the asbestos hazard, right? 10 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 11 A. I'd say hazard. I don't know if I could say risk. 12 I don't know if -- 13 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Well, asbestos kills people; 14 doesn't it? 15 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 16 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Asbestos can kill people? 17 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 18 A. You have to qualify that. I mean, at what level or 19 for how long? 20 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Well, let me ask the question 21 again. Do you take issue with this statement: Asbestos can 22 kill people. 23 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 24 A. Well, I guess to the same extent that you could say 25 water kills people. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004765 Page 76 1 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) So, your testimony is that the 2 statement that asbestos can kill people is the same thing as 3 saying that water can kill people? 4 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 5 A. No, I'm not saying it's the same thing. I'm saying 6 "hazard" does not necessarily equal a risk depending upon the 7 intensity of the exposure and the duration of the exposure. 8 Obviously both water and asbestos under certain conditions 9 can be hazardous, but that doesn't mean they are inherently 10 hazards. 11 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) So, you cannot agree with the 12 statement that asbestos can kill people. 13 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 14 A. I'll agree with it to the extent that it also 15 relies upon the level of exposure and the duration of 16 exposure. And then I'll agree with it. 17 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Okay. Do you think asbestos is 18 more hazardous than water? 19 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 20 A. I don't think you can say that. Obviously if you 21 fall out of a boat without a life preserver, it's probably 22 more hazardous. 23 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Water, you mean? 24 A. Right. 25 Q. With respect to Larson Exhibit No. 15, did you Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004766 1 already tell me what that document is? Page 77 2 A. No, this is titled "Hot Equipment Insulation 3 Application." And it is a Baytown engineering standard for 4 the refinery and the chemical plants, and it is dated March 5 of 1972. 6 Q. What was the point of that document? 7 A. It's a revised specification for insulation, 8 thermal insulation, to be used in the refinery and chemical 9 plants. 10 Q. What type of asbestos insulation was Exxon using on 11 its pipes and in boilers and things of that nature when you 12 arrived there? 13 A. There was several different types when I arrived in 14 '76. There were some that contained asbestos in the range of 15 10 to 30 percent, and that was primarily chrysotile asbestos. 16 Q. Which company names were those that y'all were 17 using at that time? 18 A. I don't recall the company names, but I'm sure it 19 was probably something like -- may have included 20 Johns-Manville. It may have included Raybestos. I'm just - 21 you know, those are some of the manufacturers. I'd say of 22 all the insulation, the asbestos-containing insulation was 23 typically only used on the very high temperature processes in 24 the refineries and somewhat in some of the chemical plants; 25 and it probably made up maybe -- I'm just -- rough estimate Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004767 Page 78 1 maybe 30 percent of the insulation that was found at the 2 refinery and much, much less in the chemical facilities. 3 I'd say the other types of insulation that were used did 4 not contain asbestos; and they consisted of rock wool, 5 fiberglass and ceramic insulation. You want me to explain 6 the application guide? 7 Q.Please, if you don't mind. 8 A. I believe the tone of the guide was to specify that 9 where available only nonasbestos-containing insulation 10 products should be purchased for future insulation 11 applications. That's the gist of it. 12 Q. Who authored this document? 13 A. It would have been the engineering department for 14 Humble Oil. 15 Q. What do you define as high-temp pipe insulation? 16 In other words, what does the temperature need to be for 17 high-temp application? 18 A. I think it's specified in there. Off the top of my 19 head, I'm not sure. 20 Q. I think I saw -- where did I read that from? I 21 thought you were reading when you told me "We're not going to 22 use asbestos." 23 A. Oh, do you want me to find out - 24 Q. Did I misunderstand that? 25 A. -- where it's referred to? Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004768 1 Q. Yes, sir. Page 79 2 A. Section 4.1. You want me to highlight it for you? 3 It's right here (indicating). 4 Q. All right. No. 6, what is that document? 5 A. Okay. This is called "Safety Highlights, 1956, 6 Humble Oil and Refining Company, Baytown, Texas." And it 7 essentially covers potential hazards of gases and dust that 8 may be found in the refinery and the approved types of 9 respirators to use when working around any of these 10 potentially toxic materials. 11 Q. You said found in a foundry? Did I hear that 12 right? 13 A. In a refinery. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. And on page -- let's see. I think it's the first 16 page it lists under "hazardous dust." It lists a number of 17 items including asbestos. 18 Q. This is obviously something that was probably 19 posted around the plant? 20 A. I assume it was. It could also have been handed 21 out at safety meetings, that type of thing. 22 Q. But you wouldn't know, would you, because this is 23 1956, first-hand knowledge? 2 4 A. First-hand, no; but I mean, obviously it was meant 25 for employee distribution. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004769 Page 80 1 Q. No. 7 is another accident prevention manual. Is 2 this another core of the safety program but from a different 3 year? 4 A. Correct. This is for the Baytown refinery, dated 5 September, 1959. 6 Q. Could you briefly just highlight the parts that 7 pertain to asbestos hazard? 8 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 9 A. Again, it will refer to approved respirators for 10 asbestos because that changed from time to time. Would be 11 Page 111 12 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) So, the portion of Exhibit No. 7 13 that you highlighted on Page 111, that is the portion that 14 deals with protection of workers against the asbestos hazard. 15 correct? 16 A. Respiratory protection. 17 Q. That's the portion that deals with respiratory 18 protection? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. To protect against the -21 A. Correct. 22 Q. -- dust hazard, correct? 23 A. Right. 24 Q. Just so I can understand when I'm going back and 25 looking at this document, there's nothing else in this Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004770 Page 81 1 document that deals with protecting workers against the 2 asbestos hazard, correct? 3 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 4 A. As I mentioned earlier, there would be a corollary 5 program for work practices. 6 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Okay. Let me ask my question and 7 try to see if you can answer. My question is: There's 8 nothing else in Larson Exhibit No. 7, the accident prevention 9 manual, that discusses protecting workers against the 10 asbestos hazard other than what you highlighted on Page 111, 11 correct? 12 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 13 A. Correct, in that manual. 14 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) All right. Now, with respect to 15 No. 8, I'm just going to ask you the same questions real 16 quick. If you can just -- what is No. 8? 17 A. Okay. It's a comparable document titled "Accident 18 Prevention Manual," dated March, 1962, for Humble Oil and 19 Refining. 20 Q. And we've established that No. 7 was dated 21 September, 1959, correct? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. All right. Go ahead. I'm sorry. 2 4 A. Again, it will designate the proper type of 25 respirator for handling asbestos-containing insulation. Same Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004771 Page 82 1 as the other ones, just another update. Actually I don't 2 even know if this document pertains to that or not. 3 THE WITNESS: Correct me if I'm wrong, but 4 I don't think this addresses protective equipment in 5 this particular manual. 6 A. I don't know why it got in the pile, but this 7 doesn't pertain. 8 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Exhibit No. 8 does not pertain to 9 protection of any dust hazard at Exxon-Baytown - 10 A. No, it has to do with other procedures. 11 Q. What is Larson No. 9? 12 MR. HEARD: Wait a minute. Is this 13 supposed to be part of that? 14 MR. RADCLIFFE: I want to see it. 15 MR. HEARD: You want to take this - 16 THE WITNESS: Unless I overlooked 17 something, I don't think it addresses anything, any 18 protective equipment or procedures. 19 MR. HEARD: Is this supposed to be attached 20 to that, what he's looking at there, because that's 21 nothing? 22 MR. GARDNER: No, these are two separate 23 documents. 2 4 A. What this is -25 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Let me ask the question first: Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004772 1 What is Exhibit No. 9? Page 83 2 A. It appears to be a notice of a meeting that 3 Standard Oil Company of New Jersey was hosting for medical 4 and safety personnel in New York from March 15th through the 5 22nd, 1946. And it indicates some of the presenters at that 6 conference; and it also shows, I guess , photographs of them. 7 And I guess the one significant person involved here would 8 have been Roy Bonsib who was the author of that 1937 report 9 concerning dust producing operations in the petroleum 10 industry. 11 Q. He was with Exxon? 12 A. Well, he was with Standard Oil in New Jersey which. 13 I guess. later became Exxon. 14 Q. Any other significance you can see about that 15 document ? 16 A. No . 17 Q. When you got to Exxon, what industry groups was 18 Exxon a member of? API? A gazillion. right ? 19 A. Oh, yeah. API -- 20 Q. Did y'all have anybody that sat on the board of. 21 say, the API? 22 A. I don't recall. 23 Q. You weren't involved with communications with any 24 of the industry groups of which Exxon -- 25 A. Not really at this time. I think later -- Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004773 1 Q. Hang on. I'm sorry. Page 84 2 -- of which Exxon was a member? You weren't -- let me 3 start the question over again because she can't take it down. 4 You weren't involved with communicating with any 5 industry groups of which Exxon was a member during your 6 tenure with Exxon? 7 A. Not at that time. 8 Q. Were you involved at some other time? 9 A. Not with Exxon. 10 Q. With who? 11 A. With Mobil. 12 Q. With Mobil? Which reminds me, I didn't finish out 13 your career. Let's do that real quick. What did you do 14 after 1984? 15 A. 1984, I was transferred to Mobil's corporate safety 16 and industrial hygiene department. 17 Q. Did you consult with Mobil pertaining to asbestos 18 insulation matters or asbestos exposure matters? 19 A. I helped develop company comments on revision to 20 OSHA's asbestos regulations. 21 Q. Did you disagree with OSHA's regulations? 22 A. No . 23 Q. How long did you work in that capacity for Mobil? 24 A. I was in the corporate safety and industrial 25 hygiene department until 1989, but I had various duties. In Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004774 1 1984 for one year, my title was manager of regulatory Page 85 2 affairs. 3 Q. What did you do in that capacity? 4 A. In that capacity I developed company comments on 5 the revision to OSHA's asbestos regulations among other 6 things. 7 Q. Do you have any comments that you developed? 8 A. No, I don't. 9 Q. What was the gist of them? 10 A. The gist of it was making comments regarding in 11 some cases operational improvements to a standard that would 12 enable us to comply without -- well, consistent with some of 13 the programs we had in place already at the time. 14 Q. That would allow you to comply with what? 15 A. Well, that would allow us to comply with the OSHA 16 regulations? 17 Q. I just don't understand what you mean by that. 18 A. I'm trying to remember specifically what we 19 commented about, and quite frankly it's really a little 20 difficult for me to recall at this point. But I think the 21 gist of our comments were we basically supported the 22 revisions ; but we made some suggestions, I guess, for making 23 them more user friendly. 24 Q. As I understand what you're telling me, your 25 suggestions to OSHA were suggestions that would allow Mobil Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004775 Page 86 1 in its day-to-day operations to better comply with the OSHA 2 regulations, correct? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. You weren't saying "OSHA, your regulations need to 5 be more stringent than they are"? That wasn't Mobil's 6 position ; was it? 7 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 8 A. Well, I think in general we agreed with the 9 approach they were taking -- 10 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) No, sir, that wasn't my question. 11 My question was -- 12 A. That we objected to them? 13 Q. -- in your position at Mobil, you did not take the 14 position with OSHA that their regulations needed to be more 15 stringent than what they proposed? 16 A. They were already proposing more stringent 17 requirements. 18 Q. And you were not taking the position that -- 19 A. No . 20 Q. -- they were not stringent enough, the proposals? 21 A. I think that's probably fair to say. 22 Q. And while you were with Exxon, the same would be 23 true? You never took the position with OSHA that their OSHA 24 regulations needed to be more stringent? 25 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004776 Page 87 1 A. I never took a position while I was at Exxon on 2 that. 3 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) You don't know anybody with Exxon 4 who took such a position, correct? 5 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 6 A. I really have no way of knowing. I don't recall 7 that there was any rule making going on at the time I was 8 there. 9 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) You're not aware of any letters 10 Exxon ever sent to OSHA saying "Y'all need to have more 11 stringent regulations to protect our employees"? 12 A. Well, first of all, I think Exxon and Mobil's 13 policy was to keep exposure to a minimum no matter what the 14 regulation was. So, to that extent, no, I'm not. 15 MR. HEARD: Objection; nonresponsive. 16 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) I'm just asking you if you know. 17 A. Okay. 18 Q. My question is: You're not aware of any 19 correspondence or communications with OSHA while you were an 20 industrial hygienist with Exxon where Exxon told OSHA that 21 their standards or regulations needed to be more stringent to 22 protect Exxon employees? 23 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 24 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) You're not aware of any is all I'm 25 asking? Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004777 Page 88 1 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 2 A. Well, if I answer "yes" or "no, it's not going to 3 be a complete answer. 4 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Well, are you aware of any? 5 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 6 A. No, because employees were not being -- I mean, 7 exposures were kept at a minimum. So, there would be no 8 reason to. 9 MR. HEARD: Objection to the nonresponsive, 10 everything after "no." 11 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) What did you do after 1989? 12 A. '89 I moved into the product safety division of 13 Mobil; and it took me completely -- well, 99 percent out of 14 the industrial hygiene profession. 15 Q. What does the product safety division do? 16 A. Product safety included Mobil's toxicology 17 personnel, labeling experts, regulatory advisers to deal with 18 the whole area of communicating potential -- well, 19 determining, evaluating the potential hazards of products and 20 making sure that customers were warned of any potential 21 hazards that might arise from their use. 22 Q. So, you weren't really focused on the hygiene 23 issues with respect to the employees of Mobil? 2 4 A. No, but we were concerned mainly with the customer. 25 Q. More of an outward focus? Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004778 1 A. Exactly. Page 89 2 Q. Is that what you did up until the time you retired? 3 A. Yes, basically. 4 Q. What year did you retire from Mobil? 5 A. 2000 . 6 Q. 2000. Now, was it ExxonMobil at that time? 7 A. The merger was just going on at that time 8 basically . It was still Mobil. I retired as a Mobil 9 employee. 10 Q. Gotcha. Other than the $300 an hour that Exxon 11 pays you to testify in these kinds of cases, do you have any 12 other financial arrangements with that company? 13 A. No, I own no stock. I don't receive an annuity. 14 Q. You receive no other benefits from Exxon? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. While you were an OSHA inspector from 1973 to 1976, 17 did you ever receive any communication from any industry 18 member that the OSHA regulations needed to be more stringent 19 to protect industry employees? 20 A. No . 21 Q. Are you aware of whether the Houston and greater 22 triangle office ever received any such communication? 23 A. I'm not aware of any. 24 MR. HEARD: Could you mark that as the next 25 exhibit? Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004779 Page 90 1 (Larson Exhibit No. 21 was marked) 2 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) I'm handing you Larson No. 10. Can 3 you tell me what that is? 4 A. Okay. It's apparently a company article concerning 5 an award for industrial health that Humble Oil received in 6 1957 . 7 Q. Can you quickly point to me the parts of Exhibit 8 No. 10 that relate to asbestos? 9 A. I don't see anything in here specific to asbestos. 10 but it did address the medical and industrial hygiene 11 programs that were in place. 12 Q. But does it address it with respect to asbestos 13 exposure or just the general? 14 A. I would have to say it addresses it in general. 15 Q. That's not an award that Exxon got for protecting 16 people from asbestos, in other words? 17 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 18 A. That was one of many. It's one of many elements 19 that was included in their health and medical programs. 20 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) No. My question is: That 21 document, Exhibit No. 10, doesn't pertain to any award or 22 acknowledgement that Exxon -- that they received about 23 protecting workers from asbestos? 24 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 25 A. It's not specific to any material. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004780 Page 91 1 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Including asbestos, correct? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. I'm showing you Larson Exhibit No. 11. What is 4 that document? 5 A. Okay. It is a document entitled "Methods of 6 Surveying Toxic Exposure in Occupational Environments" by 7 James W. Hammond of Humble Oil and Refining Company. 8 Q. What's the date? 9 A. The date is -- it's November of 1965. 10 Q. What does that document have to do with Exxon's 11 procedures for protecting workers against asbestos hazard? 12 A. It goes into the program that was in place for 13 monitoring employee exposure to asbestos and the types of 14 medical surveillance programs that were implemented to 15 monitor employee health relative to potential asbestos 16 exposure 17 Q. And you have no first-hand knowledge about the 18 implementation of any of those programs, correct, at that 19 time before you arrived? 20 A. Not at that time. Only after I arrived. 21 Q. Okay. Larson No. 12, what is that document? 22 A. It's an article titled "Occupational Cancer Now" by 23 Robert Eckardt, director of medical research division. Esso 24 research and engineering. 25 Q. What is the significance of that document? Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004781 Page 92 1 A. It was a presentation that was made at MD Anderson 2 Hospital and Tumor Institute on March the 3rd, 1971; and it 3 addresses , I believe, the current understanding of the 4 potential health effects of asbestos. 5 Q. Who is that presented to? 6 A. Presented to the Symposium on Fundamental Cancer 7 Research, and it reviews the hazards of asbestos and current 8 knowledge of health effects. 9 Q. In what year? 10 A. 1971. 11 Q. Before you got to Exxon, right? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. The information that's contained in this document 14 entitled "Occupational Cancer Now," were you taught that in 15 your classes at University of Texas? 16 A. Yes, very much similar information. 17 Q. Now, speaking about health effects such as cancer. 18 you would acknowledge that asbestos can cause the disease 19 mesothelioma, correct? 20 A. Asbestos is one of several causes, yes. 21 Q. And you would acknowledge asbestos is one of 22 several causes? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. In the United States, what is your opinion as to 25 the other causes of mesothelioma for workers who are Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004782 1 occupationally exposed to asbestos? Page 93 2 A. Radiation therapy is one other potential cause. 3 Some people would say that a portion of mesotheliomas are 4 caused by genetic defects; and there are some people that 5 really have no explanation at all. 6 Q. So, you believe that mesothelioma can be caused by 7 genetic defects? 8 A. That's what I've read. 9 Q. I'm sorry. I was asking what you believe. As an 10 industrial hygienist who was with Exxon, do you believe that 11 mesothelioma can be caused by genetic defects? 12 A. I do. 13 Q. You do? Do you believe that mesothelioma in an 14 occupationally exposed person to asbestos that you've seen 15 case reports where the doctor said it was idiopathic 16 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 17 A. I'm sorry. Repeat that, please. 18 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) That was a horribly worded question 19 which is why the lawyer here for Exxon very capably objected 20 to it. 21 Have you seen case reports where a doctor in a case 22 where a patient was diagnosed with mesothelioma and had 23 occupational exposure to asbestos diagnosed him with 24 idiopathic mesothelioma? 25 A. I'm not personally aware of that, no. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004783 Page 94 1 Q. So, do you believe that there are cases in 2 occupationally exposed or people exposed to asbestos where 3 their mesothelioma has no explanation? 4 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 5 A. I think there could be. 6 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Okay. But you're not personally 7 familiar with any such cases is what you just told me, I 8 think? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. The answer is, no, you're not personally aware of 11 any such cases ? 12 A. Okay. No. 13 Q. Are there any other causes in the United States of 14 mesothelioma that you're aware of? 15 A. Well, I did read one report that people who worked 16 with sugarcane have an excess of incidence of mesothelioma. 17 That's the only common thread that they see, is the fact that 18 they're involved in working around sugarcane. 19 Q. Do you remember where you read that report? 20 A. Let's see. I think I read it on a website that is 21 sponsored by a mesothelioma information institute or 22 something of that nature. 23 Q. Did you actually read the medical or scientific 24 report that that information came from? 25 A. The original document, no. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004784 Page 95 1 Q. Well, I mean, did you read it on the website. the 2 document ? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. What do you mean by "original document"? I'm not 5 talking about something you're holding in your hand like this 6 (indicating). I'm saying did you read the actual report. 7 scientific study that said -8 A. No, no, I didn't read the actual scientific report. 9 Q. You read something that was on the website 10 referencing -11 A. Right. 12 Q. -- that kind of -- 13 A. Right. Summarizing the various causes. 14 Q. So, do you believe that sugarcane can cause 15 mesothelioma? 16 A. I don't think anybody knows that. It's just that 17 it's somehow related to it. 18 Q. All right. You believe that asbestos can cause 19 lung cancer, correct? 20 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 21 A. Same clarification -- depending on the level of 22 exposure and the duration, it can. 23 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) What is the level of exposure that 24 you deem necessary for a person occupationally exposed to 25 asbestos to cause mesothelioma, for example? Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004785 Page 96 1 A. I don't think anybody can put their finger on a 2 specific level. I wouldn't try to. 3 Q. Well, you keep saying depending on the level and 4 the length of exposure. What do you mean by that? 5 A. Well, there, I'm sure, is a range of exposure based 6 on individuals' susceptibility that could cause that effect. 7 And I'm sure there are some people that could be heavily 8 exposed and never experienced the disease, whereas other 9 people who have a, quote, "light" exposure potentially could. 10 I'm sure it depends on the individual susceptibility. 11 Q. There's some people who can be exposed to asbestos 12 during an entire working lifetime and never get the disease. 13 correct? 14 A. I would assume if it was a high enough level. 15 anybody could experience some effect. 16 Q. I'm talking about the disease mesothelioma. There 17 are people who work over a working lifetime being exposed to 18 asbestos who never get mesothelioma, correct? 19 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 20 A. I think I'd have to have an idea of the level of 21 exposure and the duration. You're saying a full working 22 lifetime? 23 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Yes, sir. 24 A. I'd say it would depend on the level of exposure. 25 yeah. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004786 Page 97 1 Q. Okay. Well, and certainly the converse is true. 2 too, as you just mentioned, that there are people who have 3 much lower exposures but because of whatever reason medically 4 they may get mesothelioma -- at much lower levels -- than the 5 person who never gets mesothelioma and has worked a lifetime? 6 A. But there are people who are never exposed to 7 asbestos who never get mesothelioma. 8 MR. HEARD: Objection; nonresponsive. 9 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) My question is: There are people 10 who have much lower exposures than occupational exposures who 11 get mesothelioma, right? 12 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 13 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) You've reviewed case reports or 14 case lit erature on mesothelioma; haven't you? 15 A. No, I haven't. 16 Q. You have not? Okay. You haven't reviewed medical 17 studies or scientific articles on necessary exposure levels 18 to cause the disease mesothelioma? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Same true with lung cancer? 21 A. In terms of exposure level. 22 Q. Yes, sir. I'm asking you the same question with 23 respect to lung cancer. Have you reviewed medical and 24 scientif ic literature that addresses the exposure level and 25 length o f exposure necessary for a person to get lung cancer Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004787 1 from asbestos exposure? Page 98 2 A. I've seen several studies of that nature, yes. 3 Q. So, you haven't seen them with respect to 4 mesothelioma, right? 5 A. I haven't specifically studied reports regarding 6 meso and exposure levels, no. 7 Q. But you have lung cancer? 8 A. I've seen some that address it. 9 Q. And what is your opinion as to the exposure level 10 and length necessary for a person to get an asbestos-related 11 lung cancer? 12 A. I think it's generally accepted that there is a 13 potential for lung cancer in persons that have been exposed 14 to the extent that they already have asbestosis. So, it 15 would take a fairly significant exposure over a fairly long 16 timeframe. 17 Q. So, in other words, in your opinion a person who 18 has enough exposure where when they go get their x-ray taken, 19 their histories taken, and they have asbestosis clinically 20 and they have lung cancer -- develop lung cancer later that 21 that can be attributed to asbestos exposure, correct? 22 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 23 A. Well, it depends on other types -- there's, like, 2 4 smoking history, that type of thing. It's potentially - 25 yes, I believe that. I'd agree. It is potentially Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004788 1 connected. Page 99 2 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) And your limitation there relates 3 to smoking . You want to make sure you look at their smoking 4 history, correct? 5 A. Right. And the limitation is that they would need 6 to be exposed to the extent that they develop fibrosis and 7 asbestosis 8 Q. Right. Which you can see on an x-ray, right? 9 A. I believe you can. 10 Q. What about asbestosis? How much exposure, then. 11 and length of exposure do you need to get the disease 12 asbestosis in your opinion? 13 A. I'd say significant, in other words, at levels -- 14 well, I don't know if I'm really qualified to say that. 15 Q. Okay. That's fair. 16 A. It's definitely -- 17 Q. That's fair. If you're not qualified, just tell 18 me. We'll move on. 19 A. All right. 20 Q. You feel like a medical doctor ought to address 21 that? Would that be fair? 22 A. I'm sorry? 23 Q. You feel like a medical doctor ought to address 24 that ? 25 A. Exactly. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004789 Page 100 1 Q. What about latency? Are you in the same position 2 with respect to latency, that a medical doctor ought to 3 address latency issues? 4 A. I think it would be more appropriate. I mean, I 5 can tell you what my general understanding is just from my 6 research and education; but I think -- assuming we're going 7 to have medical people involved -- that they're probably the 8 best ones to answer the question. 9 Q. Where were we? 10 A. I think we're almost finished. 11 Q. I hope so because it's about that time. Larson 12 No. 14, what is that; and what is the significance of it? 13 A. This is the original OSHA permanent asbestos 14 regulation that was published in 1972. I think what 15 happened -- that came off the 1972 Jim Hammond "Asbestos 16 Handling Procedure." I don't know if this is supposed to be 17 a stand- alone exhibit. 18 Q. Okay. Larson No. 16, what is that document? 19 A. Okay. This is a report published, again, by this 20 Roy Bonsib who published the earlier 1937 document on dust. 21 who published a later document in 1943 titled "Safeguarding 22 Petroleum Refineries and Their Workers." 23 Q. Who is that presented to? 24 A. It was published in the INDUSTRIAL SAFETY SURVEY 25 journal. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004790 Page 101 1 Q. Does that deal with protecting workers against 2 asbestos ? 3 A. It addresses a wide range of potential hazards in 4 refineries . It does address dust; but I don't believe that 5 Roy Bonsib , in this particular later publication. addressed 6 asbestos-containing insulation. I don't believe it' s 7 addressed in this. 8 Q. Okay. Well, my question was: Does it address the 9 asbestos hazard? 10 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 11 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) And protection against the asbestos 12 hazard? 13 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 14 A. I don't think that particular document does. 15 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) What is Exhibit No. 21? 16 A. Okay. This is an earlier epidemiology study that 17 Humble Oil conducted to determine the health status of their 18 workforce in -- let's see -- 19 THE WITNESS: Do you see a date on there? 20 MR. GARDNER: I don't see a date. It gives 21 a time period. 22 A. Oh, okay. Here it is. Covered a 21-year period 23 ending in 1955; and I think the significance, very briefly. 24 of this is that they did study causes of deaths from 25 pulmonary fibrosis as well as lung cancer. And in this Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004791 Page 102 1 particular study, the mortality due to those diseases and 2 others were well below what would be expected in the normal 3 United States population. And they felt that was significant 4 because this study covered employees that would have been 5 employed as early as -- let's see -- 1934. I'm sorry -- 6 January 1st, 1935, through December 31st, 1955. They 7 concluded "There were 179 cancer deaths reported in a 8 population which averaged 15,257 annually. This is 9 equivalent to an overall cancer death rate of 55.9 per 10 hundred thousand per year." 11 Q. When is the first time you saw that document? 12 A. Yesterday. 13 Q. Given to you by the lawyers, right? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. Those lawyers who represent Exxon? 16 A. Yes . 17 Q. When you worked with OSHA from 1973 to 1976, were 18 you of the opinion that asbestos was the most dangerous toxic 19 substance unleashed on the American workforce? 20 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 21 A. At that period of time, I thought it was one of 22 many hazardous materials. I told you about the target health 23 hazard program. 24 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Right. 25 A. We looked at asbestos. We also looked at lead. Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004792 Page 103 1 silica; and quite frankly, at that time I think most people 2 thought silica was probably a greater hazard than asbestos. 3 Now, over time I think we've learned more about asbestos. 4 So, the gravity, I think, has changed since the 1970s to the 5 present 6 Q. As far as the work -- I keep forgetting the name of 7 it -- sorry about that. As far as the special emphasis 8 inspections program that you were a part of, would you agree 9 that silica and asbestos were two of the most hazardous toxic 10 substances in the American workforce while you were with 11 OSHA? 12 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 13 A. They were being used on a widespread basis. I 14 won't call them the most toxic, but certainly they were a 15 hazard. 16 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) They were what? 17 A. They were a hazard, a potential hazard. 18 Q. I mean, that's why they were included on the target 19 health nazards -20 A. Absolutely. But you were saying whether asbestos 21 was the most toxic material ever used in the workplace; and 22 I'd say it was one of them. 23 Q. I didn't say that, though. OSHA said that; didn't 24 they? 25 A. No, OSHA never -- Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004793 1 Q. In 1972? Page 104 2 A. They said it was a potential occupational health 3 hazard. I'll agree with you there. It certainly was and is 4 to this day. 5 Q. Well, asbestos and silica were two of the five 6 substances on the target health hazards program. 7 A. Right. 8 Q. The reason they were on the target health hazards 9 program is there was a major concern in the country that 10 workers weren't being protected against the health hazard, 11 correct, presented by asbestos and silica? 12 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 13 Q. (BY MR. HEARD) Isn't that right? 14 MR. GARDNER: Objection; form. 15 A. Let me -- it was based on the fact that there was a 16 very high potential toxicity, and there was widespread use. 17 It wasn't toxicity alone. 18 Q. Right. 19 MR. HEARD: I think that's all we have time 20 for today, if that's okay with you. So, we'll just go 21 out of here with all these conversations we've had and 22 see what they want to do about it. Is that all right 23 with everybody? 2 4 MR. GARDNER: Yeah. 25 (Deposition adjourned at 1:32 p.m.) Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004794 1 2 PAGE/LINE 3 _____________ 4 _____________ 5 _____________ 6 _____________ 7 _____________ 8 _____________ 9 _____________ 10 11 12 13 _____________ 14 _____________ 15 _____________ 16 _____________ 17 _____________ 18 _____________ 19 _____________ 20 _____________ 21 22 23 _____________ 24 _____________ 25 _____________ CHANGES AND SIGNATURE CHANGE FROM/CHANGE TO Page 105 REASON Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004795 Page 106 1 I, BRUCE LARSON, have read the foregoing deposition and 2 hereby affix my signature that same is true and correct, 3 except as noted above. 4 5 ___________________________________________ BRUCE LARSON 6 7 THE STATE OF ) 8 COUNTY OF ) 9 Before me, , on this day personally 10 appeared BRUCE LARSON, known to me to be the person whose name is subscribed to the foregoing instrument and 11 acknowledged to me that they executed the same for the purposes and consideration therein expressed. 12 Given under my hand and seal of office this _____ day 13 of , 2004. 14 15 ______________________________________________________________ NOTARY PUBLIC IN AND FOR THE STATE OF 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004796 Page 107 1 CAUSE NO. 03CV0588 2 LOUISE ALTIMORE 3 VS. 4 QUIGLEY COMPANY, INC., ET AL. * IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF * * GALVESTON COUNTY, TEXAS * * 405TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT 5 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION ORAL DEPOSITION OF BRUCE LARSON 6 MARCH 23, 2004 7 I, Suzi Gladney, a Certified Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of Texas, hereby certify to the following: That the witness, BRUCE LARSON, was duly sworn by the 9 officer and that the transcript of the oral deposition is a true record of the testimony given by the witness; 10 That the deposition transcript was submitted on 11 to the witness or to the attorney for the witness for examination, signature, and return to me by 12 , 2 004; 13 That the amount of time used by each party at the deposition is as follows: 14 Mr. Heard - 2 hours, 30 minutes 15 That pursuant to information given to the deposition 16 officer at the time said testimony was taken, the following includes all parties of record: 17 FOR THE PLAINTIFF LOUISE ALTIMORE: 18 Mr. Denman H. Heard HEARD, ROBINS, CLOUD, LUBEL & GREENWOOD, LLP 19 910 Travis, Suite 2020 Houston, TX 77002 20 Tel: (713) 650-1200 21 FOR THE DEFENDANT EXXONMOBIL: Mr. S. Shayne Gardner 22 DeHAY & ELLISTON, LLP 901 Main Street, Suite 3500 23 Dallas, TX 75202 Tel: (214) 210-2430 24 25 Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004797 1 FOR THE DEFENDANT EXXONMOBIL: Mr. R. Thomas Radcliffe, Jr. 2 DeHAY & ELLISTON, LLP 36 South Charles Street, Suite 1300 3 Baltimore, MD 21201 Tel: (410) 783-7225 HAl FOR THE DEFENDANT EXXONMOBIL CORPORATION: 5 Ms. Glenna M. Kyle EXXONMOBIL CORPORATION 6 P. O. Box 2180 Houston, TX 77252-2180 7 Tel: (713) 656-6522 OO Page 108 9 I further certify that I am neither counsel for, related to. nor employed by any of the parties or attorneys in the 10 action in which this proceeding was taken, and further that I am not financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of 11 the action. 12 Further certification requirements pursuant to Rule 203 of TRCP will be certified to after they have occurred. 13 Certified to by me on this 31st day of March, 2004. 14 15 16 17 SUZI GLADNEY, CSR, RPR Texas CSR No. 6857 18 Expiration: 12/31/2004 Word for Word Reporting 19 Firm Registration No. 222 Office City Plaza, Building II 20 7015 Gulf Freeway, Suite 110 Houston, TX 77087 21 (713) 847-8984 22 23 24 25 Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004798 Page 109 1 FURTHER CERTIFICATION UNDER RULE 203 TRCP 2 The original deposition was/was not returned to the deposition officer on ; 3 If returned, the attached Changes and Signature page contains 4 any changes and the reasons therefor; 5 If returned, the original deposition was delivered to Mr. Denman H. Heard, Custodial Attorney; 6 That $ is the deposition officer's charges to the 7 PLAINTIFF LOUISE ALTIMORE for preparing the original deposition transcript and any copies of exhibits; 8 That the deposition was delivered in accordance with 9 Rule 203.3, and that a copy of this certificate was served on all parties shown herein on and filed with the Clerk. 10 Certified to by me this ____ day of , 2004. 11 12 13 14 SUZI GLADNEY, CSR, RPR TEXAS CSR No. 6857 15 Expiration: 12/31/2004 Word for Word Reporting 16 Firm Registration No. 222 Office City Plaza, Building II 17 7015 Gulf Freeway, Suite 110 Houston, TX 77087 18 (713) 847-8984 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004799 A Abrams 1:22 Absolutely 68:2,22 103:20 acceptable 12:4 accepted 98:12 access 13:13 54:7 accident 3:13,15,16 51:3 53:11,18 54:18 80:1 81:8,17 accompanied 18:1 acknowledge 92:18,21 acknowledged 73:9 106:11 ~ acknowledgement 90:22 action 108:10,11 Activities 60:10 actual 10:23 44:24 95:6 95:8 add 63:17 added 20:11 additional 42:14 address 59:11 90:10,12 98:8 99:20,23 100:3 101:4,8 addressed 101:5,7 addresses 57:24 66:5 82:4,17 90:14 92:3 97:24 101:3 adjacent 27:10 adjourned 104:25 Administration 18:24 admitted 4:23 advisers 88:17 affairs 85:2 affix 106:2 afternoon 40:24 agents 16:25 agree 5:8 35:25 36:17 46:18 70:19,20 72:15 72:17 76:11,14,16 98:25 103:8 104:3 agreed 86:8 agreement 4:3,13 45:23 ahead 4:15 81:23 air 32:6 airport 12:21 AL 1:4 107:4 alleged 13:1 Allen 6:6 allow 85:14,15,25 Altimore 1:2,17 2:3 3:12,21,23 27:12 28:3 29:1,9,20 30:15 35:25 36:14 37:2,11 38:15,22 45:9,24 47:23 48:16 57:7 68:5 107:2,17 109:7 Altimore's 25:1 38:9 38:16,20 39:9 ambient 26:9 American 102:19 103:10 amount 13:16 107:13 Analysis 3:23 Anderson 15:10 92:1 annual 21:21 annually 102:8 annuity 89:13 answer 35:17 39:15 49:9 51:17,20 56:11 56:12 70:13 81:7 88:2,3 94:10 100:8 answering 35:1 anybody 34:5 83:20 87:3 95:16 96:1,15 API 83:18,19,21 apparently 90:4 Appearances 3:3 appeared 106:10 appears 83:2 application 3:20 15:5 77:3 78:6,17 applications 78:11 apply 44:8 57:4 63:14 appreciate 40:7 appreciation 75:8 approach 42:20 86:9 approaches 44:6 56:6,8 appropriate 12:6 100:4 approved 33:24 34:3 34:17,19,21 79:8 80:9 approximately 15:15 15:16 19:14 32:23 area 15:19,20,21,21,22 16:12,15 19:4,20,22 20:21,23 21:2 26:7 30:25 31:1 40:4 53:1 54:8 88:18 areas 37:1 66:2 aromatics 10:13 arrangement 9:9 arrangements 89:12 arrived 77:12,13 91:19 91:20 Arthur 15:22 33:16 article 3:17,23 90:4 91:22 articles 97:17 asbestos 3:19 6:24 13:2 17:1,5 18:11 32:1,25 33:4,9,12 34:3,16 35:15 36:1,14,18 37:3,25 38:21 39:12 40:3,9 41:5 47:20 52:3,11,25 53:2 55:1 56:16 57:16,20,24 58:1,3,9,11,12,15,17 58:20 59:1,7,20 60:4 60:14,19,21,21 65:5 65:14,18,25 66:12,13 67:8,17,18 68:6,7,9 68:16,17 69:1,8,9 70:8,10,12,17 72:2,4 72:7,8,14 73:4 74:9 74:10,14 75:9,13,16 75:21 76:2,8,12,17 77:10,14,15 78:4,22 79:17 80:7,10,14 81:2,10 84:17,18,20 85:5 90:8,9,12,16,23 91:1,11,13,15 92:4,7 92:18,20,21 93:1,14 93:23 94:2 95:18,25 96:11,18 97:7 98:1 98:21 100:13,15 101:2,9,11 102:18,25 103:2,3,9,20 104:5 104:11 asbestosis 98:14,19 99:7,10,12 asbestos-containing 38:4 39:13 42:25 52:14 66:16 73:1 77:22 81:25 101:6 asbestos-handling 66:22 asbestos-related 98:10 aside 73:21 asked 8:3 56:10 asking 12:7 54:16,23 87:16,25 93:9 97:22 aspects 46:17 61:23 assigned 37:4 assignment 28:22 assignments 28:1,10 assistant 46:19 Associated 60:10 assume 30:16 58:17 62:5 79:20 96:14 assuming 70:16 100:6 attached 82:19 109:3 attempt 59:6,19,23 attempts 60:3 attended 13:24 21:21 attorney 12:22 107:11 109:5 attorneys 40:20,22 108:9 attributed 98:21 Austin 13:25 15:22 author 83:8 authored 78:12 available 5:14 30:17 37:5 53:16,21 54:14 78:9 averaged 102:8 award 90:5,15,21 aware 23:3 72:2,4,7,11 73:2 87:9,18,24 88:4 89:21,23 93:25 94:10 94:14 awful 43:4 a.m 1:19 49:1 B back 8:11,24 15:3 22:3 22:16,23 23:21 37:21 39:14,16 42:6 43:22 44:10 54:16 61:20 65:21 74:5 80:24 background 8:4 13:10 13:16 62:14 bad 74:21 bakery 16:13 balance 17:22 Baltimore 2:12 4:20 108:3 base 54:14 based 36:19 38:10,21 39:5,9 50:3 64:22 96:5 104:15 basic 48:6 basically 7:24 9:3 17:6 21:19 26:3,18,23 28:21 34:9 40:1,4 42:20 54:20 55:20 61:16 69:4 85:21 89:3,8 basis 6:22 21:9,15 36:1 61:16 103:13 Baton 42:13 51:16,19 55:16,25 Bayonne 42:15 Baytown 18:2 25:10,14 25:25 26:21 27:4,13 42:12 43:15 44:2,7,9 44:16 45:19,22 46:14 48:1,9,11 51:4,10,16 51:16,19 52:23 56:4 56:11,12 57:5 68:14 77:3 79:6 80:4 bear 30:12 Beaumont 10:12,12,17 15:22 19:19,20,22 44:13,15 begins 29:4 60:18 behalf 8:14 10:7 believe 6:14 8:9,16 Page 9:22 10:11,22 12:16 16:25 17:1 18:1 20:10 23:6,20 25:15 25:20 28:4 34:17 35:17,21 36:11 38:18 43:2 44:21 55:15,22 56:5,7 58:2,14 65:21 78:8 92:3 93:6,9,10 93:13 94:1 95:14,18 98:25 99:9 101:4,6 benefits 89:14 benzene 6:24 best 100:8 better 86:1 beyond 55:10 Bickley 1:22 bigger 69:21 biochemist 15:11 bit 5:5,7 24:21 26:1 27:22 48:3 61:21 71:10 block 33:13 blocks 33:10 board 83:20 boat 76:21 boilers 77:11 Bonsib 65:22 83:8 100:20 101:5 books 50:7 borders 41:13 boundary 26:15,16,20 Bowl 12:18 Box 2:15 108:6 brake 33:10 Branch 13:21 break 48:23 breakdown 17:14 briefly 15:17 49:3 80:6 101:23 bring 16:16 British 33:15,18,19 brought 40:15 48:15 48:18 62:17 Brown 69:13,18,23,24 70:7 71:3 73:21 Bruce 1:11,16 3:5 6:1,6 23:6,8 106:1,5,10 107:5,8 BS 14:6 building 2:20 44:9 108:19 109:16 Bulletin 3:16 bunch 8:3 butadiene 6:25 C C 2:1 call 103:14 Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004800 Page 2 called 16:23 44:9 79:5 cancer 3:18,23 15:11 91:22 92:6,14,17 95:19 97:20,23,25 98:7,11,13,20,20 101:25 102:7,9 capably 93:19 capacity 7:19 42:5 84:23 85:3,4 career 14:21,23 27:16 84:13 cartridge 34:1,2 case 4:7,22 6:8,18,21 7:1 8:18 12:22 13:14 38:1140:7 43:16 49:6,22 55:16 69:15 69:18 93:15,21,21 97:13,14 cases 73:13 85:11 89:1194:1,7,11 category 17:15 cause 1:1,18 92:18 93:2 95:14,18,25 96:6 97:18 107:1 caused 93:4,6,11 causes 92:20,22,25 94:13 95:13 101:24 ceramic 78:5 certain 76:8 certainly 45:12 50:1 97:1 103:14 104:3 certificate 3:8 109:9 certification 2:19 107:5 108:12 109:1 certified 1:20 107:7 108:12,13 109:10 certify 107:7 108:9 cetera 73:10 chain-link 25:21 change 35:18 105:2 changed 35:24 80:10 103:4 changes 3:7 67:6 105:1 109:3,4 channel 23:18 33:8 41:15,16 44:6 47:12 51:24 charge 12:12 36:9 45:18,21 67:21 68:23 charges 109:6 Charles 2:11 108:2 chart 25:18 chemical 14:7,19 16:13 23:17,18,19,23 24:9 24:19 26:19 28:20,22 28:22,23 29:12,18 30:11,21,24 33:15 41:1143:25 44:3,5,7 44:18 45:7,22,22 46:14 51:24 65:15 69:7 70:6 77:4,8,24 78:2 Chemical's 13:2 chief 60:8 choice 34:9 chrysotile 77:15 citations 18:3 City 2:20 108:19 109:16 Civil 1:24 clarification 95:21 clarify 57:23 69:12 71:12 classes 14:19 92:15 classroom 43:9 clear 49:13 52:7 Clerk 109:9 clinically 98:19 CLOUD 2:4 107:18 column 28:15 come 4:15 8:24 14:20 23:21 40:22 comes 71:7 74:22 75:1 comfortable 34:12 coming 39:17 commented 85:19 comments 84:19 85:4,7 85:10,21 committee 51:7,23 common 44:4 94:17 communicating 84:4 88:18 communication 89:17 89:22 communications 83:23 87:19 companies 9:7 34:4 company 1:4 3:17 23:17 24:9 28:20 45:16 63:21 65:15,15 77:16,18 79:6 83:3 84:19 85:4 89:12 90:4 91:7 107:4 comparable 64:17,18 64:19,21,24 65:7 81:17 complaint 16:20 31:14 complaints 17:7,12,18 17:20 31:13,21 complete 50:14,17 88:3 completely 28:1888:13 compliance 16:4,9 18:1 18:15,17,18,24 19:25 31:9 complies 26:18 comply 66:8 73:2 85:12 85:14,15 86:1 component 39:7 comprehensive 54:8 computer 22:20 computerizing 22:24 concern 5:1 104:9 concerned 74:18 88:24 concerning 36:19 83:9 90:4 concluded 102:7 conclusion 30:9 condensed 54:6 conditions 16:11 76:8 conducted 101:17 conference 21:21 83:6 confined 61:7 congestion 12:20 connected 99:1 connection 44:4 consideration 106:11 consisted 78:4 consistent 36:1 85:12 constraints 5:3 constructed 44:12 consult 84:17 consulting 9:5,6 contacts 41:23 contain 78:4 contained 66:11 77:14 92:13 containing 37:25 contains 109:3 contamination 17:5 18:11,13 contents 54:15 contiguous 25:17 continuation 28:17 continue 64:5 continued 30:9 contract 71:13 74:2 contractor 69:17,24 71:13 72:13 74:1,1,4 contractors 68:10,11 68:15,25 69:8,13,13 69:15,20,22 70:7 71:2,15 73:23 contractor's 71:8 controls 32:6 65:4 convenient 5:14 12:19 conversation 63:18 conversations 63:11 64:23 104:21 converse 97:1 copied 66:21 copies 11:3 66:18 109:7 copy 10:25 27:21 54:3 65:9 109:9 core 54:20 57:2,10,12 59:14,15 61:3,10 80:2 corollary 61:8 81:4 corporate 24:14 42:9 84:15,24 CORPORATION 2:13 2:14 108:4,5 correct 6:10 7:5,18 8:21 10:6,8 11:7,11 11:21,25 13:22 14:2 14:16,25 16:1 17:6 19:10,23,24 20:6,24 21:5,14 22:12 24:5 25:22 26:21 27:5,6,8 27:9,11,15,18 28:24 28:25 29:2,3,6,21,25 29:25 31:18,19,25 36:2 38:12,13,18,22 38:24 39:6,7,18 40:11,16,17,21 41:6 41:8,9,12 42:1 43:18 43:21 44:25 45:5,7 45:16,17,19 46:5,17 47:4,8,9,15,18,25 48:3,13,14,16,20 53:12,13,15,20 54:4 56:1,4,5,13,15,24 57:5,6,8,10,13,14,20 57:21,23 58:4,9,15 58:21 59:4,20 60:1 60:19 61:2,15,25 62:3,8,10,19,25 63:4 63:5,9,13,16,17 67:23 68:1,7,18,19 69:1,10 70:2,17,22 71:19,21,22,24,25 72:2,5,10 73:7 80:4 80:15,19,21,22 81:2 81:11,13,21,22 82:3 86:2,3 87:4 89:15 91:1,2,18 92:12,19 92:23 95:19 96:13,18 98:21 99:4 102:14 104:11 106:2 correctly 29:5 correspondence 87:19 cotton 17:1 32:3 counsel 4:7 108:9 country 4:16 104:9 COUNTY 1:3 106:8 107:3 couple 50:13 course 50:15 75:3 court 1:2 35:8 107:2 courthouse 4:6 cover 42:21,22,23,24 covered 15:20 22:20 40:2 52:12 101:22 102:4 covers 13:9 43:2 58:23 79:7 credentials 18:22 critique 67:5 CSHO 16:5 CSR 1:20 2:19 108:17 108:17 109:14,14 current 92:3,7 currently 8:22 9:10,11 Curriculum 3:12 Custodial 109:5 customary 54:2 customer 88:24 customers 88:20 cut 4:9 8:4 D daily 21:9,15 Dallas 2:8 107:23 dangerous 102:18 date 5:4 28:10 29:4,17 63:22 91:8,9 101:19 101:20 dated 51:4 53:11 56:21 60:11 62:23 63:6 65:11,16 77:4 80:4 81:18,20 dates 28:15 65:21 day 43:6,8 104:4 106:9 106:12 108:13 109:10 day-to-day 16:8 21:23 86:1 deal 58:3 60:13 88:17 101:1 deals 80:14,17 81:1 death 102:9 deaths 101:24 102:7 December 102:6 decide 5:5,6 deem 95:24 deemed 70:10,12 defects 93:4,7,11 DEFENDANT 2:6,10 2:13 107:21 108:1,4 define 36:21 78:15 definitely 60:22 99:16 degree 14:1,3,6,9 DeHAY 2:7,11 107:22 108:2 delivered 109:5,8 demonstrated 22:17 Denman 2:3 6:7 52:6 107:18 109:5 department 18:23 23:11 24:14 28:9 51:13 56:21 61:24 Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004801 Page 3 67:22 69:3,5,6,15 70:5 74:7 78:13 84:16,25 depend 96:24 depending 76:6 95:21 96:3 depends 96:10 98:23 deposition 1:10,16 3:21 3:23 4:10 5:21 6:13 6:17,20 7:6,15,17,19 8:5,8,12,15 9:20,23 10:2,15 11:1,10,13 12:12,14,24 13:4 25:2 30:8 38:19 40:23 47:3 50:12,22 50:25 64:3 104:25 106:1 107:5,9,10,13 107:15 109:2,2,5,6,7 109:8 depositions 8:24 11:4 11:15,20 12:2 13:9 22:21 describe 25:24 DESCRIPTION 3:11 designate 81:24 detail 13:9 details 53:4 determine 32:9 101:17 determining 88:19 develop 34:10 84:19 98:20 99:6 developed 22:17 44:20 55:19 85:4,7 developing 44:11 45:1 devoted 27:2 diagnosed 93:22,23 difference 25:24 26:1 different 12:12 28:20 35:1144:17 64:25 65:4 77:13 80:2 difficult 85:20 directly 69:16 director 91:23 disagree 84:21 discuss 5:12 44:6 discussed 57:2 discusses 53:2 81:9 discussion 50:23 52:2 discussions 46:12,19 47:6 disease 92:18 96:8,12 96:16 97:18 99:11 diseases 102:1 distill 54:8 distribution 79:25 district 1:2,4 19:19 107:2,4 dividing 26:17 division 18:17 88:12,15 91:23 doctor 93:15,21 99:20 99:23 100:2 document 27:24 28:18 29:16 30:13 32:9 50:13 52:5 54:4,12 54:17 55:13,14,25 56:3,10,25 57:1,17 58:6,13,20 59:5 60:17,25 61:10 65:10 66:22 67:10,14 68:16 70:4 73:14 77:1,6 78:12 79:4 80:25 81:1,17 82:2 83:15 90:21 91:4,5,10,21 91:25 92:13 94:25 95:2,4 100:18,20,21 101:14 102:11 documents 5:11 13:4 40:15,18 41:1,3 49:5 49:8,8,14,17,19,24 50:1,3,9,14 51:22 60:2 62:8,14,17 63:6 63:15 64:6 82:23 doing 8:2 9:2,4 17:15 21:25 22:6 26:24 67:4 draft 51:21,25 drafted 51:5,6 63:7,22 due 47:18 102:1 duly 1:16 6:2 107:8 duration 76:7,15 95:22 96:21 dust 3:22 17:1 32:3 33:24 34:24 35:13,15 37:3 52:21 57:24,25 58:10,13 60:9,16,21 64:10 79:7,16 80:22 82:9 83:9 100:20 101:4 duties 15:17 16:8 17:12 30:19 84:25 E E 2:1,1 earlier 57:11,12 58:18 81:4 100:20 101:16 early 16:23 25:10,15 25:15 27:14 63:22 102:5 easier 69:21 Eckardt 91:23 Edinburg 9:4 Edison 24:7 educate 48:24 education 100:6 effect 45:2 72:18 96:6 96:15 effective 34:13,15 35:14,23 effects 92:4,8,17 either 16:6 17:7 30:17 31:12 34:2 36:24 37:20 38:5 51:15 elements 90:18 ELLISTON 2:7,11 107:22 108:2 emphasis 16:21,22 17:8 17:13,21 18:8 31:15 31:16,23,24 32:4,13 103:7 employ 51:22 employed 15:24 29:20 29:23 62:19 102:5 108:9 employee 8:19,20,22 49:20 53:23 54:3 68:4 74:22 79:25 89:9 91:13,15 employees 19:20 34:11 53:17,20 54:11 55:19 55:20 61:15 67:11,13 67:13,15,17 68:10,15 68:25 69:8 70:7,24 71:2,13 73:24 74:1,8 87:11,22 88:6,23 89:19 102:4 employer 71:13 employment 25:1 41:25 enable 85:12 ended 23:2 endlessly 5:6 enemies 22:15 engineering 14:8,19 61:6 77:3 78:13 91:24 Enjay 65:15 entire 26:20 96:12 entirety 53:19 entitled 28:23 52:21 55:23 58:6 61:1 91:5 92:14 entry 61:7 environment 3:18 16:11 Environments 91:6 envision 30:14 EPA 14:14 15:2 epidemiology 101:16 equal 76:6 equipment 3:20 37:18 37:20,22,24 38:3,7 77:2 82:4,18 equivalent 102:9 Eric 44:1 46:19 essentially 66:15 79:7 Esso 3:13 55:24 91:23 established 14:15 73:20 81:20 establishing 61:16 estimate 32:15 46:3 66:20 77:25 et 1:4 73:10 107:4 evaluating 88:19 eventually 25:12 everybody 4:25 72:21 104:23 evidenced 66:23 Exactly 89:1 99:25 examination 3:6 6:3 107:11 example 33:13 44:1 62:12 63:14,15 66:5 70:15 95:25 examples 57:25 exceeded 36:24 exception 69:25 excess 94:16 exchange 50:15 executed 106:11 executive 24:18 exhibit 4:1 26:11 27:24 41:1 49:2,12 52:2 53:1 55:21,23 57:9 57:22 58:2 59:6,18 60:6,12,25 65:12,17 66:1,6 67:19 70:8 76:25 80:12 81:8 82:8 83:1 89:25 90:1 90:7,21 91:3 100:17 101:15 exhibits 3:10 40:16 49:4 50:15,16,17,22 109:7 existing 20:13 expected 68:20,23 69:6 70:5 73:5,15,23 74:7 102:2 experience 7:25 47:19 47:22 48:4,12 63:20 96:15 experienced 96:8 expert 7:20 39:20 expertise 71:16 73:18 experts 88:17 Expiration 108:18 109:15 explain 71:7 78:5 explanation 93:5 94:3 exposed 36:1,5,7 69:8 70:16 93:1,14 94:2,2 95:24 96:8,11,17 97:6 98:13 99:6 exposure 3:17 13:2 32:8,9 36:12,14,18 36:24,24,25 38:9,20 39:4,9 42:23,24 70:11,13 74:12,13,14 76:7,7,15,16 84:18 87:13 90:13 91:6,13 91:16 93:23 95:22,23 96:4,5,9,21,24 97:17 97:21,24,25 98:1,6,9 98:15,18,21 99:10,11 exposures 55:17 88:7 97:3,10,10 expressed 106:11 extent 46:25 75:24 76:14 87:14 98:14 99:6 Exxon 7:25 17:24 22:18 23:6,17,19 25:1,8,10 27:4 28:1 28:22,23 29:11,20 30:10,20 36:8,15 37:2,12 38:10,21 39:9,18 41:11,21,23 41:25 42:6 43:24 44:18 45:15 46:2,14 48:4,19 51:22 53:15 54:3 58:7,14 61:11 61:15,19 62:19 63:1 63:4,11 64:4,11,14 64:25 65:17 66:23 67:4,17,22 68:1,4,4 68:13,18,24,25 70:4 70:17,22,24 71:4,15 72:1,22,25 73:11 74:6,7,8,23,24 77:10 83:11,13,17,18,24 84:2,5,6,9 86:22 87:1 87:3,10,12,20,20,22 89:10,14 90:15,22 92:11 93:10,19 102:15 ExxonMobil 2:6,10,13 2:14 9:5,7,9 10:3,7 12:3 89:6 107:21 108:1,4,5 Exxon's 39:11 40:2,8 40:19 42:11 55:15 59:6,19 60:3,8 68:14 70:21 71:2,4,5 72:13 74:15 91:10 Exxon-Baytown 30:20 36:2 41:14 42:1 43:17,20 45:4,7 46:8 46:12 47:22 69:7 70:6 82:9 Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004802 F fabricating 13:3 facilities 13:3 16:12 17:4,23 24:23,24 25:16 30:24 31:10,20 32:12,20,24 41:22 44:3 46:17 68:24 78:2 facility 10:9,13 16:17 31:17 33:3 36:9 42:2143:17,20,21 44:5,8,12,17 45:4,7 46:8,12 47:12,15,23 47:25 52:23 56:1,4 56:11,14 57:5 66:16 67:17 fact 7:20 22:16 47:19 67:1,9,14 94:17 104:15 fair 46:20 55:12 74:19 86:2199:15,17,21 fairly 98:15,15 fall 69:25 76:21 familiar 47:20 62:14 67:4,7,8 94:7 far 4:14 38:10 46:22 49:22 54:18 103:6,7 farm 9:4 fatalities 17:7,12,16,19 31:21 fatality 16:19 17:17 31:12 fault 64:15 fee 9:17 feel 12:6 34:12 99:20 99:23 feeling 25:6 felt 31:20 35:23 102:3 fence 25:19 fences 25:21 Ferguson 51:18 fiberglass 78:5 fibrosis 99:6 101:25 field 35:19 47:1 fieldwork 24:21 figure 47:2 48:24 file 40:19 filed 4:23 109:9 files 40:18 FINA 33:19 finally 7:25 42:14 financial 9:9 89:12 financially 108:10 find 7:24 16:15 34:4,11 78:23 finding 12:1 fine 4:18 5:15 12:8,10 13:18 30:19 49:25 finger 96:1 finish 35:1,6 84:12 finished 100:10 firm 10:17,19 108:19 109:16 first 6:2 7:17 17:8 20:20 28:8 37:11 42:6 46:9 62:12 64:13 65:17,20 74:23 75:1 79:15 82:25 87:12 102:11 first-hand 79:23,24 91:17 fit 54:5 55:20 five 16:25 20:20 21:4 65:3 104:5 five-year 31:9 focus 14:5 43:15 53:6 88:25 focused 16:24 88:22 following 52:22 107:7 107:16 follows 6:2 107:13 forced 50:2 foregoing 106:1,10 forgetting 103:6 forgot 8:11 54:16 form 28:20 35:16 36:3 36:10,16 39:10,25 40:10 49:7 52:4 58:16,22 59:9,21 60:20 61:12 62:4,9 62:20 64:12 65:6 66:9 68:8 69:11 70:18,23 71:6 72:3,9 72:16,24 73:12 74:11 74:25 75:10,15,17,23 76:4,13,19 80:8 81:3 81:12 86:7,25 87:5 87:23 88:1,5 90:17 90:24 93:16 94:4 95:20 96:19 97:12 98:22 101:10,13 102:20 103:12 104:12,14 forth 50:7 found 72:1 78:1 79:8 79:11 foundry 79:11 four 16:18 73:15 frankly 85:19 103:1 Freeway 2:21 108:20 109:17 freeze 15:4,6 friendly 85:23 friends 20:19 22:4,5 FROM/CHANGE 105:2 full 96:21 fully 72:2 full-time 69:14 Fundamental 92:6 further 7:25 21:20 41:21 108:9,10,12 109:1 future 78:10 G GALVESTON 1:3 107:3 gap 30:3,6 Gardner 2:7 4:12 5:20 27:21 29:13,16 35:16 36:3,10,16 39:10,25 40:10 48:25 49:7,13 49:19 50:5 52:4,6 58:16,22 59:9,21 60:20 61:12 62:4,9 62:20 64:12 65:6 66:9 68:8 69:11 70:18,23 71:6 72:3,9 72:16,24 73:12 74:11 74:25 75:10,15,17,23 76:4,13,19 80:8 81:3 81:12 82:22 86:7,25 87:5,23 88:1,5 90:17 90:24 93:16 94:4 95:20 96:19 97:12 98:22 101:10,13,20 102:20 103:12 104:12,14,24 107:21 gases 79:7 gather 38:10 gazillion 83:18 general 16:20 17:9,22 25:6 31:15 39:2,5 46:18 86:8 90:13,14 100:5 generally 16:18 17:17 98:12 genetic 93:4,7,11 Geographically 15:20 getting 47:24 gist 78:11 85:9,10,21 give 6:19 7:19 12:6,9 17:14 34:11 40:20 49:24 50:15,16,16 54:3,11,13 75:8 given 6:13 7:17 40:5 44:10 51:7 67:11,12 102:13 106:12 107:9 107:15 gives 28:15 57:25 101:20 giving 12:2 Gladney 1:20 2:19 107:7 108:17 109:14 Glenna 2:14 108:5 go 5:6 12:19 16:16 17:4 17:11 22:7 29:8 31:17 37:19 43:15,22 47:3 48:21,23 49:10 70:15 74:5 81:23 98:18 104:20 goes 54:18 66:2 91:12 going 4:9,24 5:1 8:2,11 13:7,8,14,15 31:6 36:14 39:24 48:21 50:9,21 55:8,8,10 57:19 59:25 62:17 64:5,8 70:16 78:21 80:24 81:15 87:7 88:2 89:7 100:6 Golden 15:21 19:4,8 20:17 31:1 good 3:13 8:7 51:1 55:24 62:7 67:24 Gotcha 16:2 45:3 89:10 gotten 50:4 government 15:4 graduated 14:22 15:8 graduating 15:1 graduation 15:4 gravity 103:4 Great 13:12 22:22 27:3 greater 19:8 20:17 30:25 89:21 103:2 Greenway 23:25 41:18 GREENWOOD 2:4 107:18 Grew 13:20 groups 83:17,24 84:5 grow 13:19 guess 6:18 21:12 30:7 30:10,13 31:7 49:9 54:20 58:8 66:19 74:15 75:24 83:6,7 83:13 85:22 guide 65:18 78:6,8 guideline 65:25 guidelines 3:19 65:14 66:14,22 67:18 68:7 68:18 69:1,9 70:8 71:23 73:4,17 74:10 Gulf 2:21 108:20 109:17 guys 11:3 21:9 H H 2:3 107:18 109:5 hac 4:22 Hammond 62:12 65:16 91:7 100:15 hand 27:23 65:12 95:5 Page 4 106:12 handed 53:19 79:20 handing 60:6 90:2 handled 61:23 handling 3:19 39:12 40:3,9 41:5 42:24 52:14,25 65:14,18,25 66:14 67:18 68:6,18 69:1,9 70:8 73:4 74:10 81:25 100:16 hands 61:15 hands-on 43:11 47:21 48:11 Hang 84:1 happen 54:4 happened 100:15 happening 68:13 hard 35:7 hazard 58:4,9,15,20 59:1,8,20 60:4,14,19 65:5 72:2,5,7,14,23 75:9,11 76:6 80:7,14 80:22 81:2,10 82:9 91:11 101:9,12 102:23 103:2,15,17 103:17 104:3,10 hazardous 76:9,18,22 79:16 102:22 103:9 hazards 16:24 17:3 42:22 52:3 60:16,21 64:10 74:9,24 76:10 79:7 88:19,21 92:7 101:3 103:19 104:6,8 head 10:25 12:23 78:19 health 3:13 16:5,9,24 17:3 18:17,18,24,25 39:11 40:2 41:4 55:15,19,24 57:3 61:23 90:5,19 91:15 92:4,8,17 101:17 102:22 103:19 104:2 104:6,8,10 healthy 55:20 hear 79:11 Heard 2:3,4 3:6 4:2,14 4:21 5:8,18 6:4,7 11:7 27:23 29:14,19 33:21 34:22 35:1,3 35:10,11,18 36:7,13 36:21 39:14,17 40:4 40:12 48:22 49:3,10 49:17,23 50:20 51:2 52:9,15 58:18,25 59:12,23 60:23 61:14 62:7,15,16,23 63:24 64:2,15 65:10 66:13 68:11 69:20 70:20 71:1,17 72:6,11,19 Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004803 Page 5 73:3,14 74:13 75:2 75:13,16,20 76:1,11 76:17,23 80:12 81:6 81:14 82:8,12,15,19 82:25 86:10 87:3,9 87:15,16,24 88:4,9 88:11 89:24 90:2,20 91:1 93:18 94:6 95:23 96:23 97:8,9 97:13 99:2 101:11,15 102:24 103:16 104:13,19 107:14,18 107:18 109:5 heat 26:5 heavily 96:7 held 24:18 help 4:7 11:2 29:14 47:11 51:25 helped 84:19 helpful 8:4 Hershal 7:11 11:10 high 13:21,23,24 26:5,8 77:23 96:14 104:16 highlight 52:17,18 79:2 80:6 highlighted 52:20 59:7 59:18 80:13 81:10 highlighter 26:12 52:17 57:20 Highlights 3:15 79:5 high-temp 78:15,17 hip 54:5 hired 15:5 71:22 hiring 15:3,6 histories 98:19 history 98:24 99:4 Hobson 7:11 11:10 Hobson's 10:19 hold 24:10 holding 95:5 home 12:1 54:25 hope 13:8 100:11 hopefully 47:10 horribly 93:18 Hospital 15:10 92:2 host 53:9 hosting 83:3 hot 3:20 14:16 77:2 hour 9:11,19 12:11,24 89:10 hours 7:16 43:6,8 107:14 Houston 1:23 2:5,15,21 12:17 13:20 15:10,19 15:21 19:4,8 20:5,6,6 20:9,9,10,17,21,23 21:2,17 23:18,18,23 24:22 30:25 41:8,10 42:9 44:5 51:24 65:8 67:2 89:21 107:19 108:6,20 109:17 Humble 3:17 51:12,14 56:22 62:13 65:14 78:14 79:6 81:18 90:5 91:7 101:17 hundred 102:10 hundreds 31:2 hydrocarbon 42:23 hygiene 7:22 16:7 21:21 22:24 24:8,14 24:22 32:6 35:19,20 39:21 42:10,15,18,20 43:24 44:11,13,24 45:19,21 46:13,17 47:8,11,24 54:10 61:19,19 63:3 65:4 67:22 68:21,24 69:4 69:14 74:7 84:16,25 88:14,22 90:10 hygienist 10:4,5 15:19 16:3,5,6 18:22 23:13 24:21 35:22 36:8,23 43:13 44:1,2 50:7 62:12 68:14 69:2 87:20 93:10 I idea 51:1 96:20 idiopathic 93:15,24 112:20 108:19 109:16 imagine 31:8 implementation 91:18 implemented 63:12 65:8 67:9 91:14 improvements 85:11 incidence 94:16 include 58:17 68:10,11 included 24:23 60:22 77:19,20 88:16 90:19 103:18 includes 58:10 107:16 including 47:20 79:17 91:1 increase 9:14,17 Index 3:1,4 indicate 27:17 indicates 83:5 indicating 28:16 44:19 53:25 79:3 95:6 individual 54:7,7 96:10 individuals 96:6 industrial 3:21 7:22 10:4,5 15:19 16:3,5,6 16:7 18:21 22:24 23:13 24:8,21,22 32:5 35:19,20,22 36:8,23 39:21 42:10 42:15,17,20 43:13,24 43:25 44:2,11,13,24 45:19,21 46:13,17 47:8,11,24 50:7 54:1055:1461:18,19 62:12 63:3 65:4 67:21,22 68:14,20,24 69:2,3,14 74:6 84:16 84:24 87:20 88:14 90:5,10 93:10 100:24 industries 16:14 33:8 industry 23:2 83:10,17 83:24 84:5 89:17,19 information 28:21 36:5 36:19 37:1,5 43:4 47:10,14 48:19 61:4 92:13,16 94:21,24 107:15 inherently 76:9 initially 15:4 19:13 25:11 27:16 inspect 17:4 33:22 inspected 31:10 inspection 16:22 18:4,5 18:10 32:4 inspections 16:21,21 17:10,13,13,17 32:16 103:8 inspector 18:20 19:1 30:21 60:9 89:16 inspectors 19:3,11,14 20:2,12,13,16 22:4 22:14 23:1 instance 1:17 17:25 18:6 28:5 institute 15:11 92:2 94:21 instructed 68:6 instrument 106:10 insulated 38:3 insulation 3:20 32:25 33:5,12,13 38:4,6 39:13 40:3 42:25 73:1 77:2,7,8,10,22 77:22 78:1,3,5,9,10 78:15 81:25 84:18 101:6 insulator 38:5 intend 50:17 intensity 76:7 interest 17:2 interested 108:10 intern 15:1 investigate 16:17 17:23 investigating 16:10 17:7 investigations 16:20,20 invited 4:18 involve 26:5 involved 7:2 10:9 12:20 17:1,19 50:23 62:11 69:17 83:7,23 84:4,8 94:18 100:7 involvement 41:21 44:23 46:16 63:1 involving 6:18,18 14:23 issue 14:16 75:21 issued 18:3 60:8 issues 6:25 7:23 47:8 47:11 64:9 88:23 100:3 items 79:17 J James 65:16 91:7 January 12:17 30:4 102:6 Jersey 24:8 42:15 83:3 83:12 Jessie 38:17 Jim 62:12 100:15 job 8:19 15:17,25 16:8 17:12 24:19,20 28:1 28:10 36:2,19 40:7 45:12 jobs 23:2 61:9 Johns-Manville 77:20 joined 19:13 42:6 45:15 66:23 journal 100:25 Jr 2:10 108:1 JUDICIAL 1:4 107:4 July 15:14 60:11 jump 4:19 June 56:21 58:7 jurisdiction 30:25 31:18 K keep 21:17 55:9 87:13 96:3 103:6 kept 20:18 88:7 Kilian 38:19 39:1 kill 75:16,22 76:2,3,12 kills 75:13,25 kind 6:21 14:5 17:12 21:16 30:13 33:21 37:22 54:17 61:3 66:7 69:25 71:3 95:12 kinds 89:11 knew 14:22 21:12 22:6 51:19 72:1 know 4:3,3 6:21 7:6,9 7:20,21 10:16 11:5,9 11:14,16,17,21 19:16 19:16 20:11,14 21:20 21:25 22:16 23:1,3,4 23:8 28:14 30:7 37:1 50:6,20 54:11 57:23 57:25 61:20 62:21 64:5 66:20 67:12,12 67:14 72:11,14 75:11 75:12 77:21 79:22 82:2,6 87:3,16 99:14 100:16 knowing 66:20 72:21 87:6 knowledge 37:5 55:4,5 63:10 71:20,23 73:10 74:3,23 79:23 91:17 92:8 known 62:13 66:16 106:10 knows 4:25 95:16 Kyle 2:14 51:1 108:5 L labeled 27:9 labeling 88:17 Labor 18:23 laborer 25:11 LaBrock 44:1 45:13,15 45:25 46:1,13,19 47:6,7 larger 69:13,15 Larson 1:11,16 3:5,12 4:1,4 6:1,6,7 26:10 27:3,24 34:25 40:16 41:1 49:2,3,4 51:2,3 53:6,11 55:13 56:18 59:5 60:6 61:10 63:14 65:12,17 66:6 66:7 76:25 81:8 82:11 90:1,2 91:3,21 100:11,18 106:1,5,10 107:5,8 lasted 12:24 late 40:24 latency 100:1,2,3 law 10:17 lawsuit 6:22 lawyer 10:14,24 93:19 lawyers 7:9 12:2,3 39:18 102:13,15 lead 4:7 17:1,5 32:3 102:25 learn 42:18 learned 103:3 learning 42:12,13,15 42:17 leave 50:24 Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004804 Page 6 leaving 19:19 23:2 44:22 left 19:5,15 20:15,18,18 20:25 21:4,17 22:12 23:8,16 34:14 35:13 64:2 length 96:4 97:25 98:1099:11 letters 87:9 let's 4:2 5:3 10:11 21:3 24:14 29:10,11 30:4 32:15 35:21 38:16 43:15,19 45:23 49:10 50:24,25 51:15,18 53:23 60:5 73:20 74:5 79:15 84:13 94:20 101:18 102:5 level 75:18 76:15 95:21 95:23 96:2,3,14,20 96:24 97:21,24 98:9 levels 32:9 37:3 97:4,17 98:6 99:13 liaison 44:13 life 76:21 lifetime 96:12,17,22 97:5 lifted 15:6 light 96:9 limit 36:25,25 48:8 limitation 99:2,5 limited 13:8 47:23 50:6 line 23:21 26:17 list 17:11 listed 58:1 listen 35:5 lists 79:16,16 literature 97:14,24 little 5:5,7 26:11 27:22 61:2171:10 85:19 LLP 1:22 2:4,7,11 107:18,22 108:2 located 16:12 19:22 23:25 24:15 25:17 location 37:14,20 41:11 43:14 lockout/tag 61:7 long 5:13 7:15 15:23 23:19 24:2,10 34:12 68:5 75:19 84:23 98:15 look 5:11 32:1 33:25 49:4 54:25 99:3 looked 5:11 18:11 49:11 50:6 60:25 102:25,25 looking 14:21 28:5 32:5,5 50:2 60:17 80:25 82:20 looks 27:25 28:19 29:16 lost 21:16 lot 43:4 54:14 Louise 1:2,17 2:3 3:21 3:23 38:15 107:2,17 109:7 Louisiana 1:22 lovely 4:16 lower 97:3,4,10 LUBEL 2:4 107:18 lunch 22:7 lung 95:19 97:20,23,25 98:7,11,13,20,20 101:25 _________ M_________ M 2:14 108:5 machine 1:21 37:4,12 37:25 machinist 25:12,13 29:1 30:9 36:12 37:12 38:6 39:3,6 40:13 48:7 main 2:8 20:8 54:17 55:4 107:22 maintain 41:23 major 42:11 65:3 104:9 majority 27:1 62:22 making 5:2 85:10,22 87:7 88:20 manager 85:1 manual 3:13,13,14,15 3:16 51:3,8 52:8 53:3 53:11,14 54:15,18 55:2,6,7 80:1 81:9,13 81:18 82:5 manuals 51:25 53:18 72:8 manufacturers 77:21 Map 3:22 March 1:12,19 30:4 77:4 81:18 83:4 92:2 107:6 108:13 mark 26:15,16,17,19 52:2,8 57:18,19 89:24 marked 4:1 26:10,20 27:24 49:2 90:1 marks 27:14 mask 35:13 material 26:4 90:25 103:21 materials 17:2 52:14 52:25 55:18 66:17 79:10 102:22 matter 87:13 matters 4:8 39:21 84:18,18 MD 2:12 15:10 92:1 108:3 mean 5:10 9:10 21:9,12 22:4,7 28:22 42:18 47:1 54:17 56:11 71:17 72:6 75:18 76:9,23 79:24 85:17 88:6 95:1,4 96:4 100:4 103:18 meant 22:9 79:24 measures 32:10 55:17 60:16 medical 3:16 42:10 43:1 55:18 83:3 90:10,19 91:14,23 94:23 97:16,23 99:20 99:23 100:2,7 medically 97:3 meet 39:18 40:22 66:3 66:11 meeting 83:2 meetings 46:25 79:21 member 68:20 83:18 84:2,5 89:18 mentioned 11:12 27:8 54:23 56:16 61:3 81:4 97:2 merger 89:7 meso 98:6 mesothelioma 92:19,25 93:6,11,13,22,24 94:3,14,16,21 95:15 95:25 96:16,18 97:4 97:5,7,11,14,18 98:4 mesotheliomas 93:3 met 6:11 44:6 48:16 Method 3:17 Methods 91:5 metropolitan 15:21 mid 25:15 mill 16:13 mind 11:3 12:1 26:24 36:22 55:9 78:7 minimum 87:13 88:7 minor 14:7 minute 8:24 82:12 minutes 107:14 miserable 35:4 misfiled 30:17 misplaced 30:18 missing 30:2 Mississippi 24:23 misunderstand 78:24 mix 16:14 Mobil 6:18 8:1,12,20 13:2 23:23,23 24:8 24:13,19 28:22 40:5 40:6 41:19 48:4 84:11,12,17,23 85:25 86:13 88:13,23 89:4 89:8,8 Mobil's 8:14 84:15 86:5 87:12 88:16 model 34:2 modified 66:3 mom-and-pop 72:12 monitor 55:19 91:15 monitoring 32:6,8 91:13 month 42:9,10 67:2 mortality 3:23 102:1 move 50:25 70:4 99:18 moved 28:19 30:10 41:18 88:12 multiple 7:2 mutually 5:14 N N 2:1 name 6:5,6,7 7:12 10:23 38:15,19 103:6 106:10 names 77:16,18 Natural 14:4 nature 32:2 47:2 48:19 53:19 62:2 71:24 77:11 94:22 98:2 neat 26:14 necessarily 72:20 76:6 necessary 95:24 97:17 97:25 98:10 need 4:4,7,15 5:5,6,17 16:16 54:25 69:16 71:9,12 74:15,18 78:16 86:4 87:10 99:5,11 needed 70:17 71:3 73:1 73:19 86:14,24 87:21 89:18 needs 4:4 Neighborhood 32:18 neither 108:9 never 6:11 37:25 42:1 43:20 48:16 86:23 87:1 96:8,12,18 97:5 97:6,7 103:25 New 24:7 42:15 83:3,4 83:12 NIOSH 33:24 34:17,21 Nixon's 15:3 noise 42:23 nonasbestos-containi... 78:9 nonresponsive 62:15 63:25 87:15 88:9 97:8 normal 13:16 54:10 102:2 north 20:6,9,10 26:19 27:7 44:19 Nos 4:1 41:1 NOTARY 106:15 noted 106:3 notice 4:10,11 29:7 49:23 50:12 83:2 November 8:10 9:22 10:1 91:9 number 6:25 19:15 62:13 79:16 numbered 1:18 40:16 numerous 73:22 N-I-O-S-H 34:22 O 0 2:15 108:6 object 50:2 objected 86:12 93:19 Objection 35:16 36:3 36:10,16 39:10,25 40:10 49:7 52:4 58:16,22 59:9,21 60:20 61:12 62:4,9 62:15,20 63:24 64:12 65:6 66:9 68:8 69:11 70:18,23 71:6 72:3,9 72:16,24 73:12 74:11 74:25 75:10,15,17,23 76:4,13,19 80:8 81:3 81:12 86:7,25 87:5 87:15,23 88:1,5,9 90:17,24 93:16 94:4 95:20 96:19 97:8,12 98:22 101:10,13 102:20 103:12 104:12,14 obviously 7:22 26:2,6 62:5 76:8,20 79:18 79:24 occasionally 21:20 23:10 occasions 6:14 occupational 3:18,18 18:23 91:6,22 92:14 93:23 97:10 104:2 occupationally 93:1,14 94:2 95:24 occurred 108:12 October 51:4 53:12 offense 35:7 offer 34:10 50:18 offered 39:20 49:21 office 2:20 15:20 19:3,4 19:8,12,17,19,22 Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004805 20:4,5,7,8,8,12,17 22:3 24:18 70:14 89:22 106:12 108:19 109:16 officer 16:5,9 18:1,18 18:25 107:9,16 109:2 officers 17:18 19:25 31:9 officer's 109:6 offices 1:22 official 4:10 16:4 Oh 4:21 54:16 78:23 83:19 101:22 oil 3:17 6:18 33:10 51:12,14 56:22 62:13 65:15 78:14 79:6 81:18 83:3,12 90:5 91:7 101:17 okay 4:8 8:7 9:11 11:7 13:12 22:10,19,22 28:17,19 48:10 49:17 52:19 53:1,10 54:23 55:11 56:8,9 57:17 57:17 60:15 64:1 69:12 74:4 76:17 79:5,14 81:6,17 87:17 90:4 91:5,21 94:6,12 97:1,16 99:15 100:18,19 101:8,16,22 104:20 olefins 10:12 25:24 27:7 30:20 44:10,17 44:24 45:8 47:12 once 9:16 54:24 ones 11:15 49:15,21 63:22 65:3 82:1 100:8 one-on-one 43:11 ongoing 22:25 opened 19:17,19,21 20:4,12 operating 38:5 operation 33:9 48:6 54:3 operational 25:23 85:11 operations 3:22 26:9 27:2 59:16 60:9 83:9 86:1 opinion 35:18 36:13 39:4 49:15 50:10 51:6 58:8 59:19 92:24 98:9,17 99:12 102:18 opportunity 34:11 39:18 40:25 50:1,21 62:10 oral 1:10,16 107:5,9 Orange 15:22 order 66:8 ordered 4:6 orientation 42:7 75:3 orientations 64:23 original 20:8 94:25 95:4 100:13 109:2,5 109:7 OSHA 7:25 14:12,12 14:14,24 15:1,7,9,12 15:15,20 16:23 17:4 18:19 19:1,3,6,8,11 19:13,14 20:2,11,16 20:25 21:10 22:3,12 23:2,8,16 30:19,22 30:23 31:16 32:14 34:14 35:13 36:25 46:5 47:19,20 66:3,8 66:11 67:7 71:22,23 72:18,19 73:2 85:15 85:25 86:1,4,14,23 86:23 87:10,19,20 89:16,18 100:13 102:17 103:11,23,25 OSHA's 84:20,21 85:5 ought 99:20,23 100:2 outcome 108:10 outer 27:4 outlined 27:4 outlines 57:2 outward 88:25 out-in-the-field 47:22 48:12 overall 18:20 102:9 overlooked 82:16 owned 17:23 64:11 65:1 P P 2:1,1,15 108:6 page 3:2,11 28:5,5,7,8 28:17,18,23 29:7 52:12,15,16,20 54:24 57:18 60:15,18 79:15 79:16 80:11,13 81:10 109:3 PAGE/LINE 105:2 paid 8:17 9:11 10:1 12:11 paragraphs 52:22 part 6:23,24,24 8:19 9:5 15:13 17:3 18:8 27:13,16 42:6 44:19 55:7 57:19 58:2 59:22,23,24 82:13 103:8 Partially 38:23,25 39:2 participate 4:24 particular 10:9 28:13 33:6 53:3 55:2,6 82:5 101:5,14 102:1 parties 107:16 108:9 109:9 parts 57:15 80:6 90:7 party 107:13 patient 93:22 pay 28:10 pays 89:11 people 19:11 34:9 35:5 50:24 53:14,16 61:19 61:19 62:1,11 63:7 63:11 68:23 71:1,22 73:6,10,16,23,25 74:7 75:13,16,22,25 76:2,3,12 90:16 93:3 93:4 94:2,15 96:7,9 96:11,17 97:2,6,9 100:7 103:1 percent 17:18,20,21 32:16,17 77:15 78:1 88:13 percentage 17:14 performed 32:4,16 perimeter 27:4,7 period 17:24 21:8 28:1 30:4 31:7,9 33:2 62:18 64:16 101:21 101:22 102:21 permanent 100:13 permissible 36:25 person 45:18,21,25 68:4 83:7 93:14 95:24 97:5,25 98:10 98:17 106:10 personal 34:9 63:10 personally 31:8 32:13 40:14 93:25 94:6,10 106:9 personnel 27:25 28:2 28:24 38:6 41:24 83:4 88:17 persons 98:13 perspective 5:10 25:23 68:15 74:15 pertain 56:12 57:15 80:7 82:7,8 90:21 pertaining 28:3 57:20 84:17 pertains 40:6 55:25 56:3,10 82:2 petroleum 26:2 33:15 33:18,20 60:10 83:9 100:22 photographs 83:6 physical 41:11 physically 46:22 54:13 pick 5:4 picture 18:22 piece 37:20 38:2 pile 82:6 pink 26:11,16,19 27:14 pipe 33:12 78:15 pipefitter 53:24,24 pipes 77:11 placarding 66:4 place 32:10,11 37:11 52:23 65:5 66:23 85:13 90:11 91:12 places 33:23 52:8 plaintiff 1:17 2:3 6:8 7:12 107:17 109:7 plaintiffs 7:2,10 10:14 12:22 plant 16:14 23:18,24 25:14,24 26:3,7 27:8 30:21 41:11,13 44:10 44:24 45:8,22,23 47:12 51:24 52:1 69:7 70:6 74:24 79:19 plants 24:1,17 26:15 30:24 33:15 77:4,9 77:24 plastic 13:2 26:4 Plaza 2:20 23:25 41:18 108:19 109:16 please 6:5 29:14 56:19 60:7,12 65:13 78:7 93:17 plow 4:14 Plus 44:9 pneumoconiosis 34:18 pneumoconiosis-pro... 34:23 35:14 pocket 54:5 point 20:7 21:13 22:1 31:11 54:10 62:7 75:5,5 77:6 85:20 90:7 policy 87:13 politely 55:9 polyolefins 25:14 26:3 45:9 polypropylene 26:3,7 popular 34:6 population 102:3,8 Port 15:22 33:16 portion 80:12,13,17 93:3 position 24:10 28:9 64:20 86:6,13,14,18 86:23 87:1,4 100:1 possession 38:7 possible 17:4 Page 7 possibly 51:17 posted 79:19 potential 16:19 42:22 70:10,12 72:4 74:12 74:13 79:7 88:18,19 88:20 91:15 92:4 93:2 98:13 101:3 103:17 104:2,16 potentially 38:3 79:10 96:9 98:24,25 practice 54:11 practiced 35:20 practices 3:14 44:24 53:5 56:21 58:7,14 59:11,12 61:1,4,17 81:5 prepare 40:23 preparing 109:7 present 10:2 12:3 46:22 49:20 66:17 73:1 103:5 presentation 92:1 presented 8:12 49:15 72:15 92:5,6 100:23 104:11 presenters 83:5 preserver 76:21 pretty 12:19 14:16 67:24 prevent 55:17 72:23 prevention 3:13,15,16 51:3 53:11,18 54:18 80:1 81:8,18 primarily 16:10 37:4 37:18 40:6 77:15 primary 37:14 44:10 prior 15:1 63:6 priorities 17:8 31:19 31:21 priority 16:25 17:9 pro 4:22 probably 7:16 11:1 13:16 17:16,18,20,21 20:20 31:2,3,10 32:20 43:8 46:3 51:18,20 65:3 74:5 76:21 77:19,25 79:18 86:21 100:7 103:2 problem 13:15 30:14 35:10 50:18,22 problems 50:11 Procedure 1:24 100:16 procedures 39:12 40:3 41:4 42:25 53:5 55:7 59:15 61:7,8 82:10 82:18 91:11 proceeding 108:10 processes 26:5 77:23 Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004806 produced 1:16 53:7 producing 3:22 60:9 83:9 product 88:12,15,16 Production 60:10 products 26:2 33:4 37:24 60:10 78:10 88:19 profession 88:14 professional 35:22 program 17:3,21 31:16 32:13 34:10 40:8 42:7 48:18 52:23 54:20 55:15 57:10,13 59:14 63:3 65:8 75:4 80:2 81:5 91:12 102:23 103:8 104:6,9 programs 16:24 32:7 39:12 40:2 41:4 42:12,14,16,18 43:1 43:2 44:11 45:2 54:15 55:18 57:3 63:2167:2 85:13 90:11,19 91:14,18 promoted 24:7,13 proper 81:24 property 70:21 71:5 73:5 proposals 86:20 proposed 86:15 proposing 86:16 protect 34:15 52:11 58:8,15,20 59:1,7,19 60:3 80:20 87:11,22 89:19 protected 104:10 protecting 35:14 52:3 58:3 60:13,18 64:9 81:1,9 90:15,23 91:11 101:1 protection 32:6 33:4,12 33:21 34:5,6,10 43:1 52:13,22 53:2 55:1 57:16 58:23,24 59:2 59:10 65:5 72:8 80:14,16,18 82:9 101:11 protective 32:10 82:4 82:18 provide 13:4,6 34:6 69:1971:16 provided 5:10 13:5 33:22 43:25 67:15 provisions 1:24 Provost 10:21 11:12 PUBLIC 106:15 publication 101:5 published 100:14,19,20 100:21,24 pulmonary 101:25 pumps 37:23 purchased 78:10 purely 5:9 purpose 18:5 39:23 43:23 47:17 56:25 purposes 106:11 pursuant 1:23 69:9 73:17 107:15 108:12 put 49:23 63:7 96:1 p.m 1:19 49:1 104:25 O qualified 99:14,17 qualify 75:18 question 29:19 35:2,11 35:12,12 51:17 52:7 52:10 55:9,10 58:12 59:17 62:16 70:13 74:4 75:20 81:6,7 82:25 84:3 86:10,11 87:18 90:20 93:18 97:9,22 100:8 101:8 questions 8:3 50:21 64:3 81:15 quick 64:4 81:16 84:13 quickly 35:1 49:10 90:7 QUIGLEY 1:4 107:4 quite 24:20 26:1 48:3 85:19 103:1 quote 18:19 96:9 R R 2:1,10 108:1 Radcliffe 2:10 4:19,22 5:16,22 11:5 34:25 50:11 82:14 108:1 Radiation 93:2 railroad 27:1 ran 74:5 random 17:9 range 31:2 77:14 96:5 101:3 rank 31:20 rate 28:10 102:9 Raybestos 77:20 reactors 26:8 read 5:20 8:5 24:25 28:14 29:4 38:11,18 39:14,16 54:12,25 60:15 78:20 93:8 94:15,19,20,23 95:1 95:6,8,9 106:1 reading 25:2 30:7 78:21 real 64:4 81:15 84:13 really 6:19 7:21,21 10:16 11:2 12:23 18:7 20:14 21:19 22:6 30:16 36:11 50:5 51:17 83:25 85:19 87:6 88:22 93:5 99:14 reason 30:17 35:3 88:8 97:3 104:8 105:2 reasons 70:20 73:8 74:20,21 109:4 recall 6:19 7:3,12 10:16 17:25 18:2,7 22:6 33:6,14,22 37:22 56:17 77:18 83:22 85:20 87:6 receive 14:9 89:13,14 89:17 received 14:1 89:22 90:5,22 Recess 49:1 recollection 49:16 record 1:24 3:12 6:5 28:24 65:21 107:9,16 records 22:24 24:25 27:17,22,25 28:2 29:7 30:2,15 Reduction 60:16 refer 11:1 80:9 referencing 95:10 referred 78:25 refineries 30:24 42:11 44:1 48:4,4 55:15 57:3 64:11,25 73:16 77:24 100:22 101:4 refinery 10:12 16:14 18:2 25:13,25 26:2,6 26:21 27:2,5,13 28:20 29:11 30:10 33:16 36:2,20 41:14 42:1 44:2 45:4,5,19 46:14 51:4,7,9,14 53:22 55:16 68:14 69:7 70:6,15 77:4,8 78:2 79:8,13 80:4 refining 3:17 43:25 48:6 51:12 56:21,22 65:15 79:6 81:19 91:7 refresh 49:16 regard 44:14 45:8 69:12 regarding 24:25 30:15 41:5 46:13 52:3 53:5 85:10 98:5 regional 23:25 Registration 108:19 109:16 regular 72:12 regulation 72:18,20 73:2 87:14 100:14 regulations 3:19 47:20 66:12 67:8 84:20,21 85:5,16 86:2,4,14,24 87:11,21 89:18 regulatory 66:3,11 85:1 88:17 relate 90:8 related 6:23,24,25 28:13 42:21 64:9 95:17 108:9 relates 40:8 99:2 relationship 21:16,23 22:11,25 relative 91:15 relied 47:18 relies 76:15 rely 50:10 relying 49:5,14 remain 9:18 remaining 11:19 remember 10:11,23 12:18 46:1 85:18 94:19 reminds 84:12 remiss 64:2 remove 37:20 38:6 removed 33:14 repair 37:21 38:1 Repeat 93:17 replace 37:20 report 60:8 61:16 83:8 94:15,19,24 95:6,8 100:19 reported 1:21 2:18 102:7 reporter 1:20 5:19 33:17 34:19 35:8 71:9 107:7 Reporter's 3:8 107:5 Reporting 2:20 108:18 109:15 reports 93:15,21 97:13 98:5 represent 6:8 52:21 102:15 representative 50:14 68:24 represented 70:8 representing 7:10 request 12:5 50:13 71:4 Requested 39:16 required 33:3,11 34:5 37:19 requirements 66:4 86:17 108:12 Page 8 research 15:11,11 91:23,24 92:7 100:6 resource 69:4 resources 69:1871:15 71:18 72:13 73:10 respect 29:8 45:3,6 48:11 57:9 59:10,17 74:9 76:25 81:14 88:23 90:12 97:23 98:3 100:2 respectfully 50:20 respirator 33:24 34:1,7 52:22,24 59:17 81:25 respirators 52:13,21 59:13 79:9 80:9 respiratory 32:6 33:3 33:11,21 34:5,10 42:25 52:12 58:23,23 59:2,10 80:16,17 responsibilities 16:12 44:3 responsibility 24:1 38:5 44:8,11 51:7,25 70:25 71:8,14 responsible 24:22 44:5 45:1 restate 74:4 result 18:3 resume 49:24 retention 30:14 retire 89:4 retired 9:3 25:15 89:2 89:8 return 107:11 returned 109:2,3,5 review 11:4 38:22 40:25 43:3 49:21 50:1 reviewed 49:19 65:24 67:2 97:13,16,23 reviewing 67:3,5 reviews 92:7 revise 51:25 revised 77:7 revision 84:19 85:5 revisions 85:22 right 4:11,12 5:18 7:24 9:20 10:21 11:18 13:7,18 14:17 20:1,3 21:10,14,22,25 22:4 23:15 24:16 25:5 26:25 30:19 32:3 34:14 35:7 45:6,11 45:13 46:7,20 47:13 47:16 48:5,15 51:2 53:18,23,24 54:22 55:13 56:11,20 57:22 58:19 61:1,18,22 Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004807 63:2 66:10 67:22 68:12 70:3,21 71:1 71:17,18 72:6,8,19 72:23 73:3,6,17 74:10,14,16,19,24 75:3,6,9 76:24 79:3,4 79:12 80:23 81:14,23 83:1892:11 95:11,13 95:18 97:11 98:4 99:5,8,8,19 102:13 102:24 104:7,13,18 104:22 rigs 33:10 risen 19:15 risk 31:20 75:9,11 76:6 Robert 91:23 ROBINS 2:4 107:18 rock 78:4 role 45:3,6 room 26:9 Root 69:14,18,23,24 70:7 71:3 73:21 rotating 37:18 Rouge 42:13 51:16,19 55:16,25 rough 77:25 routine 36:1 routinely 36:5 Roy 83:8 100:20 101:5 RPR 1:20 2:19 108:17 109:14 rule 87:7 108:12 109:1 109:9 rules 1:23 3:14,19 54:6 56:20 58:7,13 61:1,4 run 13:15 15:17 S S 2:1,7 107:21 safe 3:14 42:24 56:20 58:7,13 61:1,17 Safeguarding 100:21 safely 40:3 safety 3:14,15,21 16:4 16:6,9 17:17 18:1,15 18:17,18,21,24,24 24:14 39:11 40:2,8 41:3 48:18 51:8,23 51:25 53:14,16 54:6 54:18,21 56:20 57:2 57:12,13 58:6,13 60:9 61:1,3,10,23,24 64:9 69:3,4,6,14 70:5 73:5,16,23,25 74:7 79:5,21 80:2 83:4 84:15,24 88:12,15,16 100:24 sat 83:20 saw 78:20 102:11 saying 19:1 30:13 37:13,13 73:3,8 74:19,20,21 76:3,5,5 86:4 87:10 95:6 96:3 96:21 103:20 says 51:12 schedule 31:15 scheduled 16:20 17:9 17:13,22 scheduling 5:1 school 13:21,23,24 science 14:4 scientific 54:12 94:23 95:7,8 97:17,24 Scott 1:22 seal 106:12 second 8:7,9 19:17,21 20:4,12 39:4 secretary 51:23 section 44:19 52:18,18 55:4 59:6,18 60:18 79:2 sections 55:5 60:12 see 10:11 21:3,20 22:21 23:9,10 24:14 25:18 27:9 28:11,17 29:10 29:11 30:4 32:15 35:21 38:16 51:15,18 53:24 57:25 60:5 79:15 81:7 82:14 83:14 90:9 94:17,20 99:8 101:18,19,20 102:5 104:22 seen 28:3 37:8 93:14,21 98:2,3,8 selected 50:13 selection 34:11 senior 43:13 44:2 sent 66:13,15 87:10 separate 25:1628:18 28:18 54:3 82:22 separating 25:19 September 65:16 80:5 81:21 served 69:4 109:9 Service 3:12 set 31:19 50:17 73:20 share 30:23 Shayne2:7 107:21 sheets 30:3 ship 23:18 33:8 41:15 41:16 44:5 47:12 51:24 shop 37:4,12,21,25 72:12 short 12:24 shorthand 1:20,21 107:7 show 8:17 22:23 26:10 36:5 52:9,10 57:15 60:2 showing 56:18 91:3 shown 109:9 shows 28:9,21 29:1 83:6 side 26:19 29:18 43:25 sign 5:21 signature 3:7 5:19 105:1 106:2 107:11 109:3 signed 51:18 significance 83:14 91:25 100:12 101:23 significant 36:12,18,21 36:23 83:7 98:15 99:13 102:3 silica 17:1,5 18:13 32:2 34:16 35:15 103:1,2 103:9 104:5,11 similar 51:21 56:5,8 57:1 63:22 92:16 simply 54:23 Simpson 23:7,8 single 65:8 single-plaintiff 7:1 sir 6:12 25:3 28:8 29:23 37:16 42:8 46:23 48:2 55:3,23 59:3 66:25 67:1 71:9 75:2 79:1 86:10 96:23 97:22 sit 35:5 site 18:3 27:2 44:7 66:21 six 20:20 slow 35:4 71:9 small 9:3 72:12 smaller 65:3 69:17,20 71:15 smoking 98:24 99:3,3 socially 22:7 somebody 63:19 67:25 somewhat 14:14 54:12 77:24 sorry 18:15 22:9 34:19 35:9 44:16 64:15 71:11,11 81:23 84:1 93:9,17 99:22 102:5 103:7 sort 4:2 14:23 sound 10:21 source 67:14 sources 16:19 south 2:11 20:7,9 108:2 space 61:7 speak 30:16 speaking 92:17 special 14:5 16:21,22 16:25 17:8,13,21 18:8 31:15,16,22,23 31:24 32:4,13 103:7 specialist 16:6 18:21 speciality 16:7 specialized 59:16 specific 16:2 48:1 53:4 61:7,8 66:3 90:9,25 96:2 specifically 52:14 57:24 85:18 98:5 specification 77:7 specifics 6:19 66:11 specified 78:18 specifies 52:13,24 specify 78:8 speed 27:22 spend 13:16 15:12 24:17 46:7 spent 15:15 17:15 42:9 42:11,12,13,14 43:16 46:11 47:7,24 64:22 67:2 sponsored 94:21 Spring 13:21 stack 5:11 staff 42:10 44:13,15,16 47:8 61:20 68:21 standard 77:3 83:3,12 85:11 standards 61:6 87:21 Standco 33:8 stand-alone 100:17 start 4:2 18:16 29:10 35:5 43:19 84:3 started 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surrounded 27:13 surveillance 43:1 55:18 91:14 Survey 3:21 100:24 Surveying 3:17 91:6 susceptibility 96:6,10 Suzi 1:19 2:19 107:7 108:17 109:14 sworn 1:16 6:2 107:8 Symposium 92:6 system 22:20 T tailored 66:10 take 14:19 26:11 35:6 37:21 48:22 49:4 Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004808 52:17 75:21 82:15 84:3 86:13 98:15 taken 1:18 7:6 37:25 44:7 55:17 98:18,19 107:16 108:10 talk 5:5,7 14:12 35:4 62:2,11 talked 7:22 talking 5:9 35:6 41:4 45:10,24 47:7 67:25 95:5 96:16 talks 52:11 55:16 target 16:24 17:3 102:22 103:18 104:6 104:8 taught 43:10 92:14 technology 22:17 Tel 2:5,9,12,16 107:20 107:23 108:3,7 tell 6:15 11:2,6 13:7 20:22 22:19 28:6 45:12 49:4 56:18 60:7 65:12 77:1 90:3 99:17 100:5 telling 72:22 85:24 temperature 26:8,9 77:23 78:16 Temple 13:3 ten 19:14 43:8 tenure 84:6 terms 14:21 24:19 27:25 66:4 97:21 test 31:17 tested 37:3 testified 6:2 8:14 9:15 9:21 12:14 73:22 testify 8:18 10:4 40:8 89:11 testifying 39:24 40:1 testimony 10:10 30:12 37:24 38:11,14,22 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transfer 20:13 transferred 24:7,13 25:13 29:17 84:15 translate 72:20 Travis 2:4 107:19 TRCP 108:12 109:1 trial 4:16 5:15 9:15,18 9:24 36:13 50:18 64:9 triangle 15:21 19:4,9 20:17 31:1 89:22 true 86:23 97:1,20 106:2 107:9 truth 11:6 try 81:7 96:2 trying 10:11 46:20 47:2 85:18 Tumor 92:2 turn 60:12 66:21 two 11:8,15,19 13:11 13:13 17:8 19:5,20 19:25 23:20 25:16 30:3 31:3,4 38:10 42:11,12,13,14 43:7 43:16,19 46:7,11,17 46:24 47:5,23 48:12 51:17 65:3 73:22 82:22 103:9 104:5 TX 2:5,8,15,21 107:19 107:23 108:6,20 109:17 type 22:8 32:9 37:23 52:24 59:11 66:4 67:10 72:12 77:10 79:21 81:24 98:24 types 32:10 51:21 77:13 78:3 79:8 91:13 98:23 typically 32:8 77:23 U Uh-huh 21:7 28:12 31:5 41:17,20 46:15 54:1 57:11 ultimately 71:7,12,14 Umphrey 10:21 11:13 understand 5:3 6:8 29:20,24 35:6 38:9 46:21 47:21 48:6,8 54:12 80:24 85:17,24 understanding 25:7,9 27:12 34:15 35:12 37:10,16 38:2,8,20 39:2,5,8,11,22,23 53:4,21 56:2 65:19 65:20 67:20,24,25 68:3 70:3 92:3 100:5 understands 52:10 unit 53:22 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65:16 102:6 1-3 6:25 1:00 4:5 1:32 1:19 104:25 10 3:17 17:18 77:15 90:2,8,21 10/1/49 3:13 10:56 1:19 105 3:7 107 3:8 113:17 91:3 11:59 49:1 110 2:21 108:20 109:17 111 80:11,13 81:10 12 3:18 91:21 12/23/03 3:23 12/31/2004 108:18 109:15 12:06 49:1 13 3:19 65:12,17 66:1,6 66:23 67:19 69:1,9 70:9 1300 2:11 108:2 14 3:19 100:12 146 52:12,16,20 54:24 54:24 15 3:20 76:25 15th 83:4 15,257 102:8 16 3:21 100:18 17 3:21 173-page 54:11 179 102:7 18 3:22 24:24 60:6,13 61:10 63:14 66:7 1800 1:23 19 3:22 4:1 15:13 26:11 27:3 40:16 41:1 1934 102:5 1935 102:6 1936 56:21,23 58:7,14 59:14,20 60:3 61:1 1937 3:22 60:11,25 61:11,20 65:21 66:7 72:2,8 83:8 100:20 1939 60:23 1940s 25:10 27:14 1942 29:10 1943 100:21 1946 83:5 1949 51:4 52:23 53:12 53:19 1955 29:10,21 30:4,15 101:23 102:6 1956 3:15 79:5,23 1957 90:6 1959 80:5 81:21 1962 55:22 81:18 1965 91:9 1966 29:17 30:10 36:2 1968 25:13 27:15 29:4 29:11,21,23 30:15 36:2 1970 14:15 1970s 103:4 1971 92:2,10 1972 14:10,22 15:2,8 65:11,16 67:16 68:16 77:5 100:14,15 104:1 1973 15:9,13 17:24 19:7,13 31:1 32:22 62:23 63:4,7 64:8 89:16 102:17 1976 15:13 17:24 19:7 19:21 20:17 23:15,15 23:16 29:11 31:1 32:22 34:14 35:13,17 41:7,10,25 44:10 46:10,12 48:13 64:8 68:3 70:5 73:15,24 74:8 89:16 102:17 1978 19:18 20:4,11 24:16 41:10,25 44:21 68:3 70:5 198121:3 24:3,4 41:7 1984 24:11,16 84:14,15 85:1 1989 35:21 84:25 88:11 1996 6:17 7:4 8:14 9:20 2 2 3:3,12 27:24 28:17,23 49:4,11 107:14 20 3:23 17:20,21 32:16 32:17 49:2,4 2000 89:5,6 2003 9:22 10:1 11:13 12:12 2004 1:12,19 106:13 107:6,12 108:13 109:10 2020 2:4 107:19 203 108:12 109:1 203.3 109:9 213:23 90:1 101:15 21-year 101:22 210-2430 2:9 107:23 21201 2:12 108:3 214 2:9 107:23 2180 2:15 108:6 22nd 56:21 58:7 83:5 222 108:19 109:16 23 1:12 107:6 23rd 1:18 25 17:20 19:15 20:13 20:16 22:4,6,14 23:1 31:8 250 12:13,13 __________ 3 3 3:4,13 51:2,3 52:2 53:1,6,11 57:9 3M 35:13 3rd 92:2 3/1962 3:16 3/1972 3:20 3/22/46 3:16 3/3/713:18 3:00 4:4 3:30 4:4 30 77:15 78:1 107:14 300 9:13 12:13 31:3,4 32:16 31st 102:6 108:13 3500 2:8 107:22 36 2:11 108:2 37 60:24 4 4 3:12,12,13,13,13,14 3:15,15,16,16,17,17 3:18,19,19,20,21,21 3:22,22 55:13,21,23 4.1 79:2 40 66:20 405TH 1:4 107:4 410 2:12 108:3 49 3:23 51:15 5 5 3:14 56:18 57:22 58:2 59:6,18 60:25 50 66:20 55.9 102:9 __________ 6 6 3:6,15 79:4 6/12/03 3:21 6/22/36 3:14 6/7/72 3:19 60 32:18,20,20 650-1200 2:5 107:20 656-6522 2:16 108:7 68 30:5 6857 2:19 108:17 109:14 7 7 3:15 80:1,12 81:8,20 70s 16:23 25:15,15 29:22 72:14 700 1:22 7015 2:21 108:20 109:17 713 2:5,16,22 107:20 108:7,21 109:18 73 15:6 46:4 60:15,18 74 46:4 75202 2:8 107:23 76 15:14 19:15 34:17 64:13 66:24 77:14 Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004810 77002 2:5 107:19 77087 2:21 108:20 109:17 77252-2180 2:15 108:6 78 64:13 783-7225 2:12 108:3 8 83:1681:15,1682:8 847-8984 2:22 108:21 109:18 8710 34:2,6,15 35:13 35:23 89 88:12 __________ 9 93:16 82:11 83:1 9/1/72 3:19 9/1959 3:15 90 3:23 901 2:8 107:22 910 2:4 107:19 9611:16,17 57:18 99 88:13 Page 12 Word For Word Reporting (713) 847-8984 EXX-MOR-004811