Document VjzpMKO1BkwGQRkY5gE0pKQrp

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF WEST VIRGINIA AT CHARLESTON 4 JAMES M. ADKINS, A d m in is tra to r ) 5 of the E sta te of Ralph E. Adkins ,) Deceased, e t a l, ) 6) Plaintiffs, ) 7) v s . ) No. 81-2098 8) MONSANTO COMPANY, A Delaware ) 9 C orporation, ) ) 10 D efen d an t. ) IT 12 APPEARANCES: s 13 P a u l L. P r a t t , P .C ., by Paul L, P r a tt, Esq. 14 For P la in tiffs , M essrs, Bowles, McDavid, G raff & 15 Love, by C h a rles M. Love I I I , E s q ., 16 and Paul E. Frampton, E sq ., For D efendant, 17 and 18 Thomas M. B i s t l i n e , Esq. 19 Monsanto Company C o u n sel. 20 21 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED by and between 22 c o u n s e l f o r th e p l a i n t i f f s and c o u n s e l f o r th e d e fe n 23 d a n t t h a t th e d e p o s itio n o f FRANK J . HELMER may be tak en 24 p u rs u a n t to Rule 26 (a) o f th e F e d e r a l R ules o f C i v i l 25 P ro c e d u re , on June 2 , 1983, a t th e R adisson H o te l, 9 th J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E S t r e e t and C onvention P la z a , Room 215, S t. L o u is, M is s o u ri, b e fo re M. JOY SPRINGER, a N o ta ry P u b lic w ith in and fo r the County of E d is o n , S ta te o f I l l i n o is ; th a t the issuance of n o tic e and dedimus Is w aived, and t h a t t h i s d e p o s itio n may be ta k en w ith th e same fo rc e and e ffe c t as i f a l l F ederal ru le s and s ta tu to ry r e quirem ents had been complied w ith . IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED t h a t any and a l l objections to a l l or any p a rt of th is deposi tio n except o b jectio n s as to form of the questions asked or answers given, are hereby reserv ed and nay be ra ise d on th e t r i a l o f t h i s c a u s e ; and t h a t th e s ig n a tu r e of the deponent is n o t waived. * * * ic FRANK J , HELMER p ro d u ced , sworn and examined on b e h a lf o f th e p l a i n t i f f s , deposes and says as follow s: EXAMINATION BY MR. PRATT: (Whereupon the r e p o r te r marked P l a i n t i f f s 1 J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V IC E 2 1 D eposition E xhibit #97, co n sistin g of 1 page; 2 E xhibit #98, co n sistin g of 1 page; E xhibit #99, 3 co n sistin g of 3 pages; and E xhibit #100, con 4 s is tin g of 1 page, fo r the purposes of id e n tifi 5 catio n .) Q (By Mr. P r a t t ) T e ll me your name, s i r . 7 A Frank J . Helmer, H -e -l-m -e-r. 8 Q Mr. H elm er, my name i s P a u l P r a t t , and 9 I r e p r e s e n t some p eo p le a lo n g w ith S t u a r t C a lw e ll in 10 th e F e d e ra l C o u rt in W est V ir g in ia c o n c e rn in g some 11 w orkers a t N itr o who a l l e g e d l y w ere exposed to d io x in 12 and some o th e r to x ic ch e m ic als w h ile w orking th e r e , 13 and I'm going to a s k you some q u e s tio n s a b o u t your 14 p o s s ib le in volvem ent in t h i s p a r t i c u l a r s u b je c t m a tte r . 15 I f any q u e s tio n I a s k you i s n o t c l e a r , you t e l l me 16 and I w i l l t r y to make i t c l e a r , O.K.? 17 A (Nods head a f f i r m a t i v e l y . ) 18 Q And g e n e r a lly w hat I ' l l be ta lk in g 19 a b o u t, f i r s t o f a l l , i s your e d u c a tio n a l background 20 and work background and th en w e 'l l g e t in to some docu 21 ments t h a t you show up on on th e d i s t r i b u t i o n l i s t , O.K.? 22 A O.K. Q T e ll the C ourt and ju ry your name, p le a se . A My name i s F ra n k H elm er. Q Where do you li v e ? J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 3 11 r" 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A 2825 Flamewood D rive in S t. Louis County. Q A l l r i g h t . How o ld a r e you, s i r ? . A 51. Q G raduate from h ig h sch o o l ab o u t 1950? A '49. Q What d id you do a f t e r th a t? A I w ent i n t o th e Army in 1951 and g o t out in 1953. Q What d id you do from '4 9 to *51? A I operated our fam ily business. Q And w hat was t h a t , s i r ? A I t was a f u r n it u r e s to r e in the town of M onticello, Iowa. Q You w en t in th e Army from !51 to *53? A To '5 3 . Q th e Army? What did you do a f t e r g e ttin g out o f A Then I w ent to s c h o o l a t Iowa S ta te U niversity. Q A You s t a r t e d in th e F a l l o f 1953? A c tu a lly I s ta r te d in *54. Q A ll r i g h t . F a l l o f *54? A Yes. Q What d id you do betw een th e Army and when you w ent to Iowa S t a te in *54? J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 4 1i 1 if A I worked a t v arious jo b s. ;C 2 Q O.K. S t a r t i n g th e F a l l o f *54 a t Iowa 3 S ta te ? 4 A Uh huh (y e s ). 5 Q Was t h a t a t Ames, Iowa? 6 A Ames, Iowa. 7 Q . And when d id you g ra d u a te ? ,8 A In June o f 1959. 9 Q And what was your Degree? 10 A B ach elo r o f S cien ce in C hem ical E n g in e e r- 11 . in g . 12 Q Can you t e l l me g e n e r a lly w hat co u rse s S' 13 you took to o b ta in th e B .S . in C hem ical E n g in e e rin g ? 14 A C ourses in m a th em atics, c o u rse s in 15 p h y s ic s , in ch em ical e n g in e e rin g elem en ts p er s e , c o u rse s 16 in c h e m is try , some c o u rse s in h u m a n itie s . 17 Q O.K. How many hours do you have in your 18 m ajor? 19 A I r e a l l y d o n ' t r e c a l l . 20 q Over 30, p ro b a b ly , r ig h t? .21 A P ro b a b ly . 22 Q You have a m inor? 23 A Not r e a l l y . 24 Q A ll r i g h t . When you g ra d u a te d in June 25 o f '5 9 , w hat d id you do? J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E - 5 ^ V. _y/ ^ 1 A I went to work fo r G eneral M ills in 2 M inneapolis, M innesota. 3 Q Now, b e fo re we go an y f u r t h e r , do you 4 have any higher Degrees? 5 A No. 6 Q You went to work f o r G en eral M i l l s , 7 and what was t h a t d ate? 8 A T hat was in 1959, June o f 1959. 9 Q And how long were you w ith them? 10 A For two y e a r s , u n t i l June o f *61. 11 Q And what was your t i t l e w h ile you were 12 th e r e and w hat were your d u tie s ? 13 A My t i t l e was Food E n g in e e r, and my ' 14 d u t i e s were th e developm ent o f new g ro c e ry p r o d u c ts , 15 p ro c e s s e s to produce new g ro c e ry p ro d u c ts . 16 Q And d id you rem ain a s a Food E n g in e e r 17 d u rin g t h a t tw o -y ear p e rio d ? 18 A Y es. 19 Q A ll r i g h t . Where d id you go a f t e r June 20 o f 1961? 21 A I jo in e d M onsanto a t th e Queeny P la n t 22 in S t. Louis 23 Q And what was your f i r s t p o s i t i o n w ith 24 them, w ith Monsanto? ^ 25 A As a P ro c e ss E n g in e e r. J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 6 1 Q What d ep artm en t ware you in ? 2 A As a P ro cess E n g in ee r I worked in 3 m aleic anhydride, maleic and p h th a lic . 4 Q And what a r e th o se p r o d u c ts , s i r ? 5 A They a re chem icals t h a t e v e n tu a lly become 6 components of p la s tic s . 7 Q How long were you a P ro c e ss E n g in e e r in 8 th at division? 9 A Two y e a r s . 10 Q Be a b o u t June o f 163? 11 A Yes. 12 Q Where d id you go th en ? 13 A I became a P ro d u c tio n S u p e rv is o r a t th e 14 same f a c i l i t y . * 15 Q And w hat were you th e P ro d u c tio n S u p e rv is o r 16 of? 17 A T o lu e n e su lfo n y l c h lo r id e M a n u fa ctu rin g 18 D ep artm en t, TSCL. 19 Q What were your d u tie s th e re ? 20 A To s u p e rv is e th e m an u factu re o f c h e m ic a ls , 21 TSCL and d e r i v a t i v e s . 22 Q How long were you in t h a t p o s it io n ? 23 A In th a t p o s itio n f o r two and a h a l f y e a rs , 24 ro u g h ly . 25 Q About Ja n u a ry o f *6 6 J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E A T h a t's a b o u t r i g h t . Maybe a l i t t l e l a t e r . Maybe A ugust o f 166. Q Where d id you go th e n ? A Then I went to th e G eneral O ffic e s as a Production Planning Supervisor. Q As a w hat? A Production Planning S upervisor. Q T h a t's a t World H ea d q u arters, a s th ey c a ll it? A Yes. Q How lo n g w ere you in t h a t jo b ? A U n til approxim ately September of *67. Q What were your d u tie s a t the G eneral O ffice as Production Planning Supervisor? A To a rra n g e f o r th e m an u factu re o f chem icals a t th ree d if fe re n t p la n ts to tretch the mar k e tin g demand. Q What th re e p la n ts and w hat ch em icals? A A whole arm load of chem icals, b u t the p la n ts of Texas C ity , John F. queeny and L u lin g . Q N othing to do w ith N itro ? A No. Q Any o f them have to do w ith 2 ,4 ,5 -T ? A No. Q 2,4-D? J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E -------------- ? ff .-T" ; 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 U 15 l 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A No. Q you go? Then a f t e r Septem ber o f 1967 where did A Then I became a Commercial Development P ro je c t Manager. Q And where wre you a t when you d id t h a t , s i r ? A At the General O ffices. Q How lo n g w ere you in t h a t jo b ? A Short period of tim e. U n til, perhaps, February of 1968. job? Q A What were your r e s p o n s i b i l i t i e s in th a t I had one prim ary r e s p o n s ib ility , and t h a t was in tr o d u c tio n o f a new c h e m ic al to a cu sto m er, to a sp e c ific custom er. Q F o llo w in g F e b ru a ry o f 168 w here d id you go? A W ell, th e fu n c tio n of Commercial Develop- ment was d is s o lv e d a s a C o rp o ra te f u n c tio n , and a t t h a t time I had r e a lly no jo b . I had to look around the c o rp o ra tio n fo r a jo b , and th e re was one open a t N itro . So in F e b ru a ry o f ' 68 I w ent to N i t r o , West V ir g in ia , as an Engineering Supervisor. Q How lo n g were you in your c a p a c ity a t N itro as an Engineering Supervisor? A U n til 1975. J J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E O 1 Q A l l r i g h t . Now, l e t me a s k you t h i s , 2 Mr. Helmer, d id you change any jo b s w hile you were th ere? 3 A No. I had th e same jo b . . 4 Q And w hat w ere your r e s p o n s i b i l i t i e s a s 5 an E ngineering S upervisor a t N itro in February of '68 6 u n til 1975? 7 A I was re s p o n s ib le fo r th e te c h n ic a l 8 support of a number of products th e re . 9 Q rJ h a t v?ere th o se p ro d u c ts? 10 A P r i n c i p a l l y th e t a l l o i l m a n u fa ctu rin g 11 f a c i l i t y . I a l s o had a number o f ru b b e r c h e m ic a ls, 12 s e v e r a l o f th o s e , and in th e b e g in n in g I a l s o had 2 ,4 ,5 - T . 13 Q And you had 2 ,4 ,5 - T F e b ru a ry o f *68 14 u n t i l when, s i r ? 15 A U n til th e tim e t h a t we knew th e p ro d u c t l would be abandoned, t h a t th e m anufacture Gf th e p ro d u c t 17 would be aband o n ed , w hich I s u s p e c t was p ro b a b ly in the 18 e a r l y p a r t o f 1969. 19 Q A ll r i g h t . Now, t e l l me a b c u t what 20 jjour r e s p o n s i b i l i t i e s were as the E n g in eerin g S u p erv iso r 21 in th e 2 ,4 ,5 - T p ro c e s s u n t i l i t c lo s e d . 22 A w e ll, my e n g in e e rs were r e s p o n s ib le f o r 23 m a in ta in in g th e r a t e d c a p a c ity of th e u n i t , f o r i n s t a l l 24 in g c a p a c ity and y ie ld improvement p r o j e c t s , to perform 25 any s o r t of e n g in e e rin g s e rv ic e s th a t would be re q u ire d J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V IC E 1U i 1 to keep the operation a t an econom ical and re lia b le ra te . ' T Q Can you t e l l us when th a t o p e ra tio n 3 ceased? 4 A I b e lie v e i t was in th e m iddle o f 1369. 5 I th i n k , in th e summer tim e o f *69, I fra n o t su re o f 6 those d ates. 7 Q A ll r i g h t , Were you in v o lv ed as an en - 8 g in e e r in any o f the work o f d ism an tlin g the 2 ,4 ,5 -T 9 plant? 10 A None. Our f u n c tio n was an o p tim iz in g 11 f u n c tio n , and once i t was known t h a t th e p ro d u c t was 12 phased o u t, we had n o th in g f u r t h e r to do w ith i t . ^ 13 0 What was th e reaso n th ey phased th a t out? 14 A I c a n f t sa y p r e c i s e l y why i t was phased 15 o u t. 16 Q Was i t because th e governm ent was no 17 lo n g e r go in g to buy 2 ,4 ,5 - T or A gent O range, as i t w ere? 18 A I r e a l l y d o n 't knew. 19 Q So you had n o th in g more to do w ith 2 ,4 ,5 - T 20 a t N itr o a f t e r th e summer o f '6 9 ? 21 A We w^re p ro b a b ly o u t o f th e re b efo re 22 th e summer o f f 69. I th in k e a r l i e r in th e y e a r we g o t 23 o u t o f t h e r e . / 24 Q We'1.1 come back to t h a t p e rio d o f tim e 1 . ~ 25 l a t e r . Where d id you go a f t e r 1975? J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 11 A Came to th e Krummrich P la n t in S a u g e t, Illin o is. Q What was your p o s itio n th e re ? A Process Engineer Superintendent. Q O.K. And how lo n g d id you rem ain in th a t job? A I'm s t i l l in t h a t jo b . So from '7 5 u n til the p resen t tim e. Q Are you over th e e n t ir e p la n t? A No. I have ro u g h ly a q u a rte r o f th e p l a n t , 257 o f i t . Q Nave you alw aj's been over th e same p a r t of the p lan t? A No. I 'v e had th re e of the fo u r a r e a s now. Q T e ll me tim ew ise and w hat a r e a s . A W ell, in the f i r s t period I had the a c id s , ch lo ro su lfo n ic and s u lfu ric acid s and monochloro benzene f a c i l i t i e s and l a t e r took, on th e n itr o c h lo r o benzene, monochlorobenzene and la te r the n itro c h lo ro benzene f a c i l i t i e s , and then in the th ird period the nitrochlorobenzene f a c i l i t i e s and d e riv a tiv e p ro d u cts, p a ra - and o rth o -a n ilin e s and o rth o -n itro p h e n o ly lb a tc h n itratio n s. Q Any o f th o se a re a s you ta lk e d ab o u t D epartm ent 236 or 237 be under? T h a t's th e o n ly p e n ta J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E >1 .i 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ^ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 / 24 25 and ortho. A I d id have Departm ent 239 b u t n o t p en ra. I had 239. Q What d id th e y make in 239?' A I t 's a b a c te rio sta t. I t 's an ingredient in soaps. I t 's c a lle d Santophen. Q You had n o th in g to do w ith penta- o r o rth o - chlorophenol? A No, n o t to my r e c o l l e c t i o n , n o . q 2,4-3? A No, 2,4-D has n o t been a p ro d u ct th ere f o r some tim e. Q 2,4 dich!orophenol7 A No. Q 2,6 dichlorophenol? A (Shakes head n e g a tiv e ly .) Q N othing to do w ith phenol? A No, W ell, the - - No, n o t r e a l l y . Q Now, l e t me a s k you t h i s , g o in g b ack to your tour of duty in N itro where you were th e head of the 2 ,4 ,5 -T and Engineering Supervisor from February o f '6 8 u n t i l b e fo re th e summer o f '6 9 , O.R. Would you f r e q u e n tly be in th e 2 ,4 ,5 -T a re a ? Where were th e y nnking i t a t th a t time? B u ild in g 92? A T hat name r in g s a b e l l . 1 d o n 't r e c a l l J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 13 1 p r e c is e ly th e number of the b u ild in g . 2 Q Had th e re b ee n , do you know w h eth er 3 o r n o t th e r e had been any r e l a t i v e l y new u n i t o r new i u n i t p u t in in a b o u t *62? 5 A I was aware t h a t th e f a c i l i t y was n o t an 6 old f a c i l i t y . I was n o t aware o f th e e x a c t d a te when i t 7 had been in s ta lle d . 8 Q Did you have any problem in the manu 9 fa c tu re ,of 2 ,4 ,5 -T w hile you were th e re concerning 10 making th e co n tam in an t c a lle d 2,3,7,8-TCD D? 11 MR. LOVE: O b je c tio n t o th e form o f th e 12 q u e s tio n . 13 Q (By Mr. P r a t t ) Go ah e a d . 14 A X c a n 't r e c a l l s p e c i f i c a l l y w h eth e r we 15 had problem s w ith th e ch em ical t h a t you m en tio n ed . 1 Q Would some documents r e f r e s h your memory? 17 A Depends on th e docum ent. 18 Q T his f i r s t one, P l a i n t i f f s 'D e p o s itio n 19 E x h ib it #97 (Monsanto i d e n t i f i c a t i o n number 8319364), 20 may n e t be e x a c tl y r e le v a n t to w hat we w ant to t a l k 21 a b o u t, b u t I'm going to show i t t o you. Hand you 22 P l a i n t i f f s 1 E x h ib it #97, a s k you to ta k e a lo o k a t t h a t . 23 This docun^nt p u rp o rts to be from an 24 R. A. A tk in so n . Do yen know who he i s ? 25 A Yes. J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 14 ------------= i 1* 1 , VJ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 < 13 y 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 / 24 25 Q Who i s he? A He was a c h e m ist w orking a t th e p l a n t a t th a t tim e. Q A ll r ig h t. A pparently, is a document t h a t was d a te d A p r il 15, 1969? A Uh huh ( y e s ) , Q And lo o k in g a t th e s u b j e c t , lo o k s lik e Sodium 2 ,4 ,5 - T . What does th e r e s t o f t h a t word s a y , can you make i t out? A 2 ,4 ,5 -T Eimco B e lt. C a n 't read th a t la s t one. Rinse or wash, something lik e th a t. Q And y o u 're on th e d i s t r i b u t i o n o f t h a t document, c o rre c t? A Yes. Q La kin ? And th e document was t c a Mr. F. A. A B-ight, Q Who i s he? A I b e lie v e F ran k L ak in v?as th e P ro d u c tio n Superintendent of th a t product a t the tim e. Q Who i s Mr. K ellogg? A W ally K ellogg was my b o ss. He was th e General S uperintendent of Technique a t the se rv ic es a t N itro. Q How a b o u t Mr. D olin? J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 15 1 A D olin was the C hief a b e n d st. 2 V, 3 f / 4 Q Mr. Rhodes? A la v e rn e was th e P ro d u ctio n S u p erv iso r o f the 2 ,4 ,5 -T Departm ent. : s Q What a r e th ey d is c u s s in g in the te x t 6 o f t h a t s h o r t memo? 7 A Looks to me lik e what th e y w ere tr y in g 8 to do here is to see what the co n ten ts of the wash w ater 9 was a f t e r we h^d f in is h e d w ashing th e Eimco b e l t , 10 Q . How were th e y going to do th a t ? 11 A Taking th e w a te r and t e s t i n g i t f o r th e 12 ch em icals t h a t i t c o n ta in e d . 13 Q And w hat p ro c e s s was u sed on th a t? 14 A A p p a re n tly - - W ell, as i t -says h e r e , 15 a c i d i f i e d th e w a te r and th e n e x t r a c t e d , w hich means 16 shake th e w a te r u p , w ith 15 m i l l i l i t e r s o f c h lo ro fo rm 17 w ith t e t r a l i n ad d ed , I d o n * t know why, and what happened 18 th e r e was p ro b a b ly th e o rg a n ic t h a t was in th e w ate r was 19 d is s o lv e d o u t p r e f e r e n t i a l l y In th e ch lo ro fo rm and th e n 20 r a n a sample o f th e c h lo ro fo rm th ro u g h a GLC, w hich i s 21 a gas chrom atograph and th en th e y can t e l l what kind 22 o f chem icals were c o n ta in e d in th a t w ater* 23 Q What d id th ey fin d or n o t f in d in th a t 24 document? 25 A They found a s m a ll, e x tre m e ly sea 11 J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G SE R V IC E 1 am ount o f 2 ,4 ,5 - T and no d e t e c t a b le amount o f TCP. 2 Q And w hat w ere t h e i r d e te c tio n lim its ? 3 A A cco rd in g to R ick in h i s memo, you A could d e te c t up to -- is th a t p e rc e n t - - fiv e te n thou 5 sandths of a percent. 6 Q Cf TCP? 7 A Yes. 8 Q And how much 2 ,4 ,5 -T ? 9 A I s t h a t a p e r c e n t s ig n on th e end o f 10 th a t ? T hat would he one th o u sa n d th o f a p e rc e n t o f 11 2 ,4 ,5 - T . ' 12 Q And how much a p p ro x im a te ly o f 2 ,4 ,5 13 tr ic b lo r o p h e n o x y a c e tic a c id ? 14 A How much he found was .007%, o r seven 15 th o u sa n d th s o f a p e r c e n t, w hich i s v e ry t i n y , an d no 16 d e te c t a b le amount o f TCP. 17 Q A ll r i g h t . l i t me hand you P l a i n t i f f s 1 18 D e p o s itio n E x h ib it #98 (M onsanto i d e n t i f i c a t i o n number 19 8319432), and a s k you i f you can i d e n t i f y t h a t . 20 A Ye s . 21 Q A ll r i g h t . T hisdocum ent, P l a i n t i f f s 1 22 E x h ib it # 98, a p p e a rs to have o r ig in a t e d from a man named 23 Jack Strum , i s t h a t c o r r e c t ? 24 A R i g h t . 25 Q Who i s o r was Ja ck Strum? J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G SE R VIC E 1 A Jack Strum was a young Process E ngineer 2 a t the time a t N itro . 3 Q And h e 's w r i t t e n a memorandum d a te d 4 May some tilin g , 1969, c o n c e rn in g TDD a n a ly s is o f 2 ,4 ,5 - T , 5 right? 6 A C orrect. 7 Q And w hat you're ta lk in g a b o u t is the 8 te t r a le ve 1 o f th e p a ra d io x in s , c o r r e c t , th e term TuD * 9 w hat i t means ? 10 A Y es. 11 Q A g ain , th e 12 A h huh (ye r 13 ? Q And th e pc 14 w ere D o lin , y o u r s e l f , an a who a re th e o th e r p eople? 15 A VJ. C. Woods,t h a t ' s C u rt Woods, and 16 h e ' s a c h e m is t, and P. B a ld er so n ,a n d h e 's a l s o a ch& raist. 17 Q A p p a re n tly , Mr. B ald er son had a g re e d re 18 ru n TDD a n a l y s i s on a number o f sam ples o f sodium TCP 19 c u r r e n t l y b e in g produced in o rd e r to a s c e r t a i n t h a t 20 no in c re a se had occurred in the amount o f d io x in , r ig h t? 21 A C o r r e c t. 22 Q C u rt Woods was to s e t up aprogram fo r 23 a r o u tin e a n a ly s is o f th e 2 ,4 ,5 - T f in is h e d goods s a r p le ?4 fo r d io x in by the Q u a lity C o n tro l Lab, r ig h t? 25 A C o r r e c t. J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V IC E It 1 Q In o rd er to e s ta b lis h where they were 2 now on th e f in is h e d goods, i s t h a t a p r e t t y good sta te m e n t? J 3 A Yes. 4 MR. LOVE; O b je c tio n to th e form o f the 5 q u estio n , fo r what i t 's w orth. 6 Q (By Mr. P r a t t ) And th e l a s t p arag rap h 7 s t a t e s t h a t , " A f te r s u f f i c i e n t a n a ly s e s have been com 8 p le te d , I w ill ev aluate our cu rre n t situ a tio n and rep o rt 9 to you," meaning L akin, rig h t? 10 A Y es. 11 Q Did you e v e r se e a copy o f t h a t r e p o r t? 12 A N ot t h a t I can r e c a l l . 13 Q 14 a t a l l ? Were you in v o lv e d in t h i s type o f t e s t i n g 15 A P e r s o n a lly ? l Q Y es. 17 A No. 18 Q Why w ould you. be r e c e iv in g a copy o f 19 t h i s ty p e o f document t h a t r e l a t e s to gas chrom atograph 20 a n a l y s i s f o r TCDD? 21 MR. LOVE; O b je c tio n to th e q u e s tio n a s 22 t o i t s form . T h e r e 's no m ention o f a gas 23 chrom atograph, th a t I'm aware o f , in th e document. 24 Q (By Mr. P r a t t ) Go a h e a d . 25 A J a c k worked in my g ro u p . J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E ,t VI 1 2 j^ 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 / 13 U 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 / 25 Q Worked f o r you? A Yes. Q Are you p r o fe s s io n a lly cap ab le o f doing th a t type o f a n a ly tic a l te stin g ? A Personally? Q Were you? A Personally? Q Yes. A No. Q d o e sn 't it? This deals w ith a n a ly tic a l chem istry, A C orrect. Q engineering ? A Completely d if fe re n t f ie ld o f chem ical Yes. Q Hand you w h a t's been marked, Mr. H elm er, P l a i n t i f f s ' D eposition E x h ib it #99 (Monsanto id e n tif ic a tio n number 8319180), and ask you i f you can id e n tif y th a t docum ent. You re c o g n iz e t h a t docum ent, s i r ? A Yes. Q This document, P l a i n t i f f s ' E x h ib it 99, c o n sists of th ree pages, does i t not? A Yes. Q The f i r s t page i s a P ro g ress R ep o rt, J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 2( " 'j \ l_ = 1 2 3u 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 dated February 21, 1969, is th a t co rrect? A C orrect. Q And i t ' s from your a s s o c i a t e , J . C. Strum , rig h t? A C orrect. Q And i t shows t h a t y o u 'r e on th e d i s - trib u tio n li s t , correct? A Yes. Q And w hat i s th e t i t l e o f t h i s document? A T i t l e I s R e d u c t i o n o f TDD i n S o d i u m X P - B uilding 92. Q And w hat was th e problem t h a t ' s s t a t e d there ? A "Reduce fo rm a tio n o f TDD in 2 ,4 ,5 - T p l a n t sodium TCP a u to c la v e s , and in c re a s e c o n v e rs io n o f TCB to sodium TCP." Q In other words, increase production and to lower the dioxin? MR. LOVE: O b je c tio n to th e form o f th e q u estio n . Dioxin has n o t been mentioned in any o f th ese documents. I f you want to use th a t term , I would re q u e s t th a t you la y som e s o r t of a foundation fo r the tim e p erio d in which i t became a term t h a t was known t o t h i s w itn e s s , w h eth er i t was known a t th e tim e o f th e a u th o r - J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 21 sh ip o f the document. Q (By Mr. P r a t t ) What i s T D D ,'sir? A I'm n o t sure o f th e chem ical com position o f TDD. .Q is n 't it? I t 's tetrachlorodibenzo-para-dioxin, A That sounds lik e what i t would be, yes. Q W ell, then i t would commonly be c a lle d d io x in , would i t not? MR, LOVE: O b je c tio n a s to th e form o f th e q u estio n a s to when and what p o in t in tim e, i f e v e r, i t was commonly c a lle d d io x in . MR. PRATT: Your o b j e c t i o n 's n o te d . Q (By Mr. P r a t t ) Go a h e a d . A When we d e a l t w ith t h i s c h e m ic a l, TDD, t h a t was i t s i d e n t i t y , and t h i s I s how we r e f e r r e d to i t , a s TDD, and a s you can se e in th e s e docum ents. Q T hat's an ab b re v ia tio n of w hat, s ir ? A I t 's an ab b rev iatio n of the chem ical name o f th e th in g , which i s t e t r a d i c h l o r o w h a te v e r. W hatever th e ch em ical name I s . TDD i s , o b v io u s ly , a shorthand n o tatio n . Q is n 't it? I t 's tetrachlorodibenzo-para-dioxin, A A pparently th a t's so , yes. J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E *" \ 1 .je 2 3 4 .5 7 8 9 10 11 12 0~ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 / 24 25 Q So th e problem a s s t a t e d was to red u ce form ation of the tetrach lo ro d ib en zo -p ara-d io x in in 2 ,4 ,5 -T p la n t sodium a u to c la v e s, i s n 't th a t c o rre c t? A Reduce f o m e t i p n o f TDD. Q And in c re a s e c o n v e rs io n o f t e t r a c h l o r o benzene i n to sodium TCP? A Yes. Q In other words, increase production an d red u ce th e amount o f TDD, r i g h t ? A T h at's c o rre c t. Q Looking a t th e summary in th e f i r s t parag rap h , would you read to the ju r y the second sen - tence. A "The re se a rc h stu d y in d ic a te d a re d u c tio n in fo rm a tio n o f TDD (a c h lo ra c n e g e n ) from 40 p a r t s p e r m illio n (1968 e x p e rien ce ) to 5 to 7 p a r ts p er m illio n , w ith a c o n c u rre n t r e d u c tio n in TCA -- " Q What i s TCA? A T richloroanisole. Q A ll rig h t. A " -- c o n te n t from 1% to t r a c e . " Q And would you r e a d th e f i r s t l i n e o f the second paragraph. A "The t r h l ru n showed a r e d u c tio n i n TDD co n ten t from 10.5 p a rts per m illio n to 3.05 p a rts p e r J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 23 * i c_J / 1 1 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1. m i l l i o n . *' Q Do you know th e am ount o f p a r ts p e r m illio n o r p a r ts p er b i l l i o n t h a t was a c c e p te d in the in d u s try as b ein g saffe a t th a t tim e o f te tra c h lo r o dibenzo-para-dioxin? A No. Q I t in d ic a t e s on t h a t day w ith t h a t ru n , th e TDD, o r te tr e c h lo r o d ib e n z o - p a r a - d io x in , showed 3.05 p a rts per m illio n , is th a t co rrect? MR. LOVE: O b je c tio n to th e form o f th e q u e s tio n . I d o n 't know w hat day y o u 'r e talk in g about. MR. PRATT: F e b ru a ry 2 1 s t, 1969. Q (By Mr. P r a t t ) You w ant th e q u e s tio n read back. (Whereupon th e r e p o r te r read back the preceding q u estio n .) A I d o n 't b eliev e y o u 're ta lk in g about t h a t day a t t h a t r u n . I t seems to me t h i s would b e , the 3.05 m ight be the average o f the t r i a l runs. Q (By Mr. P r a t t ) A ll r i g h t . T urning to P l a i n t i f f s ' D eposition #99, page 2 under D e ta ils , would' you read th a t f i r s t paragraph, s i r . A " T e tra c h lo ro d ib e n z y ld io x e n e (TOD) i s th e o n ly known c h lo ra c n e g e n in v o lv e d in th e m anufacture o f J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E N> * ** rr? >p i jc ^ ^ 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2 ,4 ,5 - T . I t I s form ed In th e sodium TCP a u to c la v e s In a s id e r e a c t i o n d u rin g th e p ro d u c tio n o f sodium TCP." Q Did you know w hat c h lo ra c n e was then? A Yes. Q Did any o f your persons th a t worked in th e 2 , 4 #5-T o p e r a tio n , d id you e v e r h e a r o f them h aving any o th e r p h y sic a l problems o th er than chloracne? ' A No. Q Did you e v e r go over and t a l k to any o f th e men t h a t worked in th e r e and d is c u s s any p h y s ic a l problems th a t th ey were having? A No. Q Would you read to th e ju r y the second paragraph of page 2 of P la in tif f s 1 E xhibit #99. A " I n p a s t y e a rs TDD produced d u rin g th e sodium TCP r e a c t i o n has amounted to a p p ro x im a te ly 40 p a r ts p e r m illio n (b ased on t o t a l p h e n o ls ). S ince th e in s ta lla tio n of the autoclave pressure charging system, a s i g n i f i c a n t r e d u c tio n in TDD has been o b serv ed , b u t the Incidence of chloracne is s t i l l high." Q And t h i s d a te , F eb ru ary 2 1 s t, is ab o u t th e tim e th e y s h u t th is o p e ra tio n down, w ith in a few months? A Yes. Q Would you re a d th e f i r s t se n ten c e o f J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 25 J '' - 1 .-r 3 A 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ^ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 V _ 25 p arag rap h 3, page 2 o f P la in tif f s * E x h ib it #99, Mr. Helmer. A " A g ric u ltu ra l Research re c e n tly completed a s tu d y o f th e sodium TCP r e a c t i o n w ith th e g o a l o f m in im izin g TDD and o b ta in in g a more com plete c o n v e rsio n o f TCA ( t r i c h l o r o a n i s o l e , th e main in te rm e d ia te in th e r e a c t i o n ) to sodium TCP.11 Q And w hat does th e n e x t se n te n c e sa y , s i r ? A "The s tu d y in d ic a te d t h a t TDD c o n te n t o f th e sodium TCP c o u ld be red u ce d to 5 to 6 p a r ts ner m illio n u sin g pure methanol and 7 to 8 p arts per m illio n u sin g recy cled m ethanol (normal p la n t p ra c tic e )." Q Turning to page 3 of P la in tif f s ' E x h ib it # 9 9 , in T able I I c e r t a i n co m p arativ e a n a ly s e s were made on B atch N os. 149, 150, 151, 152, 154, 155 and 157, is n 't th at correct? A Yes. Q And f o r B atch No. 149, how much t e t r a c h lo ro d ib e n z o -p a ra -d io x in was found in p a r ts p er m illio n ? A The TDD w as, a p p a r e n tly , 4 .3 . Q B atch No. 150, what was found? A 14 p a r ts p er m illio n . Q And B atch 151? A 11-1/2. Q B atch 152? A 3.1 J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G SE R VIC E 26 vy ' i 2 3 4 Q Batch 154? A 2.6. Q Batch 155? A 2.3. 5 Q B atch 157? 6 A 6.5. 7 Q I hand you w h at's been marked P l a i n t i f f s ' 8 D ep o sitio n E x h ib it #100 (Monsanto id e n tif ic a tio n number 9 8306643). Ask i f th is is n o t a S erv ice Request in the 10 K itr o P la n t T e c h n ic a l S e r v ic e s , d a te d 1 /9 /6 9 , th e R eq u est 11 i s from Mr . J . C. Strum , i s t h a t c o r r e c t? 12 A C o r r e c t. ^ 13 Q And y o u 'r e one o f th e p eople on th e 14 d i s t r i b u t i o n , c o r r e c t? 15 A Y es. 16 Q 17 O u tr ig h t? And a Mr. O u t r i g h t 's t h e r e . Who i s Mr. 18 A O u tr ig h t was a Ife n u fa c tu rin g S u p e r in te n - 19 d e n t o f t h a t u n i t . Nov:, I th in k he was succeeded by 20 M r , Lakin v ery s h o r tly a f t e r t h i s , I b e lie v e . 21 Q And th e s ta te m e n t o f problem and o b je c tiv e 22 was w hat? Would you t e l l th e j u r y w hat t h a t w as. 23 24 25 A You w ant me t o re a d th a t? Q Yes, s i r . A "TDD, th e p rim ary cau se o f c h lo ra c n e in J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 27 , * ' "i ./ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 r 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 / 24 25 2 ,4 ,5 -T , is produced in a sid e re a c tio n in the sodium TCP a u to c la v e s . A g r i c u l t u r a l R e se a rc h has developed a p ro p o sa l to red u ce th e TDD c o n te n t o f th e sodium TCP from 50 p arts p er m illio n t o 5 p a r t s p e r m il lio n . An in te n s iv e p la n t s tu d y i s r e q u ir e d t o e v a lu a te th e p ro p o s a l and make n e c e s s a ry p ro c e s s and equipm ent m odifications i f the proposal is adopted." Q A ll r i g h t . Would i t be f a i r to sa y th a t in January of *69, from th is document, th a t the process was shewing ab o u t 50 p a rts p er m illio n ? HR. LOVE: O b je c tio n to th e form o f the q u e stio n in th a t th e document is one p re pared by someone e ls e w hich r e f l e c t s a carbon copy to the w itn ess, and no foundation has been la i d to su g g e st he had any knowledge v?here th e in fo rm a tio n came from o r a c c u ra c y o r a u t h e n t i c i t y . Q (By Mr. P r a t t ) Go a h e a d . A I don* t know w hat th e l e v e l o f th e TDD was in th e process a t th a t tim e. Q W ell, in the second sentence i t say s, "A g ricu ltu ra l Research has developed a proposal to reduce th e TDD c o n te n t o f th e sodium TCP from 50 p a r t s p e r m illio n to 5 p a rts per m illio n ." Based on th e te n se of t h a t s ta te m e n t, would you co n clu d e t h a t on Ja n u a ry 9 th , a t l e a s t , th ey s t i l l had as much as 50 p a r ts per m illio n J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 28 1 in th at process of tetrochlorodibenzo-para-dioxin? 2 MR. LOVE: O b je c tio n to th e form o f 3 th e q u e s tio n , and i t c a l l s f o r c o n c lu sio n on 4 the p a rt of the w itness w ithout any proper 5 foundation being la id , 6 Q (By Mr. P r a t t ) You may a n sw e r. 7 A I f th is is in referen ce to a lab o rato ry 8 ru n - - I d o n 't knot-7 w hether t h i s i s in r e f e r e n c e to a 9 laboratory sim ulation of our process or to our process 10 i t s e l f . 11 Q So you c a n 't answ er t h a t q u e s tio n ? 12 A No, so I r e a l l y c a n 't an sw e r. I d o n 't 13 remember what th e TDD le v e l was in our a c t u a l p r o c e s s . 14 Q Then on th e docum ent, P l a i n t i f f s ' E x h ib it 15 100, i t ' s h ard to r e a d , b u t I th in k i t h as to do w ith 16 b e n e f i t s , g e n e r a lly , i s n ' t t h a t c o r r e c t ? 17 A Yes. 18 Q And would you t e l l the j u r y w hat th e 19 fo u r b e n e f i ts a r e shown. 20 A On t h i s docum ent,,rNumber 1, S a f e ty 21 (G re a tly red u ce p e rs o n n e l exposure to TDD). 2 , S h o rte r 22 a u to c la v e c y c le s . 3 , E lim in a te problem s a s s o c i a t e d 23 w ith in co m p lete a / c r e a c tio n (h ig h tcA in p r o d u c t, 24 plugged d ry in g sy stem , low a s s a y ) . 4 , Im proved r e l a t i o n s 25 w ith c r a f t p e rso n n e l, c o rre sp o n d in g ly im proving J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 29 a v a ila b ility of maintenance w orkers." Q O.K. Do you know a n y th in g a b o u t th e h ealth e ffe c ts of exposure to tetrach lo rd d ib en zo -p aradioxin? A I know a l i t t l e b i t , y e s . Q T e ll me w hat you know. A I know t h a t some in d iv id u a ls who were s e n s itiv e would s u ffe r a sk in i r r i t a t i o n . Q And t h a t was c a l l e d w hat? A I t was l o c a l l y known a s th e bumps o r weed bumps, b u t i t v?as c h lo r a c n e , Q Do you knot? o f an y o th e r h e a l t h e f f e c t s " A No. Q Had you a t th e tim e orhave yous in c e read any of the s c ie n tific lite r a tu r e concerning the lew le v e l te tra c h lo ro d ib e n z o -p a ra -d io x in s ? MR. LOVE: O b je c tio n . You a sk e d him a t th e tim e. I d o n ' t know w hat tim e y o u 1r e talk in g about. MR. PRATT: At th e tim e he was th e r e working in 2 ,4 ,5 -T . A No. Q (Ey Mr. P r a t t ) Are youf a m i l i a r , o th e r th an th e se documents we have looked a t h e r e , w hich a r e P l a i n t i f f s ' E x h ib its 97 th ro u g h 100, w ith an y o f the J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 1 t e tra c h 1o ro d ib en so -p ara-d io x in values th a t were found 2 under gas chrom atograph in the 1960*s? 3 A No, n o t r e a lly . 4 Q You would have n e v e r r e c e iv e d any o f 5 those documents in your work o th er than p o ssib ly the 6 ones we have h e re w here you tie rs a cc? 7 A C orrect. 8 0 Did you ev e r t e l l any o f th e w orkers 9 d u rin g th e p erio d o f tim e you were over the 2 ,4 ,5 -T 10 p l a n t a s E n g in e e rin g S u p e rv is e r t h a t w orking in th e r e 11 c o u ld be h arm fu l to t h e i r h e a lth ? 12 A No. 13 MR. PRATT: Thank you v e ry much. 14 15 Frank J . Helmer 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 31 IV1 * 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 s 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 / 25 STATE OF ILLINOIS ) ) SS. COUNTY OF MADISON ) I , M. JOY SPRINGER, a N o tary P u b lic , d u ly commissioned and q u a lifie d in and fo r th e County o f M adison, S ta te o f I l l i n o i s , do hereby c e r t i f y th a t p u r s u a n t t o n o tic e came b e fo re me on th e 2nd day o f June, 1983, a t the Radisson H otel, 9th S tre e t and C onv en tio n P la z a , Room 215, S t. L o u is, M is so u ri, FRANK J . HELMER, who was by me d u ly sworn to t e s t i f y to the tr u th and nothing b u t the tr u th o f h is knowledge touching and concerning the m atters in controversy in th is c a se ; t h a t he was thereupon c a r e f u lly examined upon oath, and h is exam ination reduced to w ritin g u n d e r my s u p e r v is io n ; t h a t th e d e p o s itio n is a tr u e reco rd of the testim ony given by the w itn ess; and sig n a tu re of th e w itness is not waived. I FURTHER CERTIFY t h a t I am n e i t h e r a t to r n e y nor co u n sel fo r nor r e la te d to nor employed by and of the p a r tie s to the a c tio n in which th is d ep o sitio n i s ta k e n ; and f u r t h e r , t h a t I am n o t a r e l a t i v e or employee o f any a tto rn e y or co unsel employed by the p a rtie s h ereto , or fin a n c ia lly in te re ste d In the a c tio n . IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have h e re u n to s e t my J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 32 hand and a f f i x e d my n o t a r i a l s e a l on t h i s day of June, 1983. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 / 24 25 N otary Public w ithin and fo r the County of M adison, S tate of I l l i n o i s . J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E