Document VGb9kGEQ3z5Gg6YJG5YabJbo4

A p r i l 1 , 1993 &CoJnaceagnenron General G J Court Reporters 'V 705 Olive Street, Suite 604 St. Louis, Missouri 63101 (314) 421-1000 COMPUTER AIDED TRAM S CRIPTIOH I 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEVADA 2 3 ADA POWER COMPANY, ) ) 4 P lain tiff, ) 5 -vs- ) ) # C V - S - 89-555 LDG (LRL) 6 MONSANTO COMPANY, e t a l . , ) ) ) 7) Defendants. ) 8 9 DISCOVERY DEPOSITION OF WITNESS, to be used i n an 10 a c t i o n pending i n t h e D i s t r i c t Court of th e U n i t e d S t a t e s , 11 f o r the D i s t r i c t of Nevada, wherein NEVADA POWER COMPANY i s 12 P l a i n t i f f , and MONSANTO COMPANY, e t a i . , are t h e 13 D e f e n d a n t s , p u rsu a nt t o N o t i c e , under th e p r o v i s i o n s o f 14 Rule 26 o f the R u le s o f C i v i l P r o c e d u r e , taken on A p r i l 1 , 15 1993, a t the law o f f i c e s o f M e s srs . Husch & E p p e n b e rg e r, 16 100 N. Broadway, S t . L o u i s , M i s s o u r i , b e f o r e Mark D. 17 Concannon, a Notary P u b l i c w i t h i n and f o r the S t a t e of 18 M i s s o u r i . r 19 A P P E A R A N C E S 20 The P l a i n t i f f was r e p r e s e n t e d by A t t o r n e y Ralph A. Bradley of the law firm of Jo n e s , Jo n e s, Close & Brown, 21 C h a r t e r e d , 700 Bank o f America P l a s a , 300 South Fourth S t r e e t , S t e . 700, Las V e ga s, Nevada 89101, and R ich a rd 22 H i n c k l e y , V i c e - P r e s i d e n t / G e n e r a l C o u n s e l , Nevada Power. 23 The D e fe n d a n t , Monsanto, was r e p r e s e n t e d by A t t o r n e y Bruce A. Featherstone of the law firm of K irk lan d & E l l i s , 24 1999 Broadway, S t e . 4000, Denver, Colorado 70202. 25 o CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A P P E A R A N C E S (:continuing) f2 3 4 The D e fe n d a n t , W estin g h o u se, was r e p r e s e n t e d by orney Laurie Basch of the law firm of W eil, Gotshal & g e s , 767 F i f t h Avenue, New York, New York 10153. Also present: Liz G ini, paralegal. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - 3- CON CANNON JAEGSPv COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 DAVID WOOD, 2 of la w f u l age, being f i r s t duly sworn to t e l l the t r u t h . 3 whole t r u t h , and n othing but the t r u t h , deposes and 4 says on b e h a l f of the P l a i n t i f f , as f o l l o w s : 5 DIRECT EXAMINATION 6 QUESTIONS BY HR. BRADLEY: 7 Q. Would you p l e a s e s t a t e your name and s p e l l 8 your l a s t for the record. 9 A. My name i s David Wood, W -o-o-d. 10 Q. Mr. Wood, my name i s Ralph B r a d l e y . We i n t r o 11 duced o u r s e l v e s t o one another j u s t a few moments ago? i s 12 t h a t t r u e ? 13 A. Y e s . 14 Q. And you u nderstand t h a t I r e p r e s e n t Nevada 15 Power Company in t h i s l a w s u i t they brought a g a i n s t 16 Monsanto, G e n e r a l E l e c t r i c , and W e s t in g h o u s e ? i s t h a t 17 c o r r e c t ? 18 A. Y e s . 19 Q. I f d u rin g t h e course of the d e p o s i t i o n I ask a 20 q u e s t i o n t h a t you d o n ' t u n d e rs ta n d , w i l l you t e l l me? 21 A Y e s . 22 Q And i f a t any p o in t d u rin g t h e d e p o s i t i o n you 23 want t o t a k e a break f o r whatever r e a s o n , j u s t l e t us know 24 and w e '11 accommodate y ou. A l l r i g h t ? 25 A. Thank you. - 4- COMCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRP :ISCR IPT ION 1 Q. Did you review any documents i n p r e p a r a tio n 2 for today's deposition? 3f # A. Y e s t e r d a y I d id l o o k a t one or two documents 4 t h a t we produced c o n t a i n i n g my name t h a t had been t r a n s 5 ferred to you. 6 Q. Do you r e c a l l which documents t h o s e were? 7 A. No, not i n d e t a i l . 8 Q. Do you r e c a l l the date of them, r o u g h ly ? 9 A. They covered p a r t of a p e r i o d between 1966 and 10 1 9 7 5 - ' 7 6 . 11 Q. And were they -- The documents t h a t you 12 reviewed, were those l e t t e r s w r i t t e n by you? 13 A. Some of them were w r i t t e n by me and some of 14 them were r e c e i v e d by me. 15 Q. Other than l e t t e r s w r i t t e n t o you or by you, 16 d i d you review any other m a t e r i a l s i n p r e p a r a t i o n f o r 17 t o d a y ' s d e p o s i t i o n ? 18 A. The package of documents c o n t a i n e d c e r t a i n 19 a tt a c h m e n t s t h a t were a t t a c h e d t o what had been sent to me. 20 Q. A l l r i g h t . Other than t h e l e t t e r s and t h e 21 a t t a c h m e n t s , d id you r e v ie w any documents t o p re p a re f o r 22 today* s d e p o s i t i o n ? 23 A. I b e l i e v e n o t . 24 Q. Okay. Have you had your d e p o s i t i o n t a k e n 25 b e f o r e ? - 5- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- :------ ------------------------------_ ------------------------------------------------------------ CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRAMSCRIPTXOH 1 A. Yes, I have. 2 Q. When d id you have yourd e p o s i t i o n ta k e n 3 before? 4 A. My d e p o s i t i o n was t a k e n i n 1992, and i n an 5 e a rlie r period which would probably have been in the period 6 of 1986 or ' 87. 7 Q. What case was i t i n '92 t h a t r e s u l t e d i n your 8 having your deposition taken? 9 A. I don't r e c o lle c t. 10 Q. Was your d e p o s i t i o n ta k e n he re i n S t . L o u i s ? 11 A. Y e s , i t was. 12 Q. What s u b j e c t m a t t e r s were c o v e r e d i n your 13 d e p o s i t i o n ? 14 A. My u n d e rs ta n d in g of the use of A r o c l o r , PCB15 r e l a t e d d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s i n e l e c t r i c a l equipment. 16 Q. And can you be more s p e c i f i c about what th e 17 s u b j e c t m a tte r of your d e p o s i t i o n was i n ' 9 2 ? For example, 18 what p a r t i c u l a r use of P C B - r e l a t e d d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s did 19 you d i s c u s s i n your d e p o s i t i o n ? 20 A. I r e a l l y d o n ' t r e c a l l in 1992 th e p a r t i c u l a r 21 s u b j e c t m a t t e r , or in d eed t h e case i n q u e s t i o n . 22 Q. Do you remember what l e g a l i s s u e was i n v o l v e d ? 23 A. In t h a t p a r t i c u l a r c a s e , n o, I d o n ' t . 24 Q. Okay. Were you r e p r e s e n t e d by an a t t o r n e y in 25 1992 when you had your d e p o s i t i o n t a k e n ? - 6CONCANNON &JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Yes, I was. o* Q. And who was t h a t a t t o r n e y ? 3 A. I don't r e c a l l . 4 Q. Was your d e p o s i t i o n t r a n s c r i b e d ? 5 A. Yes, i t was. 6 Q. Did you sig n i t ? 7 A. Yes, I did. 8 Q. Do you have a copy of i t ? 9 A. No, I d o n ' t . 10 Q. Who has a copy, do you know? 11 A. The -- I assume t h a t th e Monsanto counsel 12 would have a copy of t h a t . 13 Q. Are you r e p r e s e n t e d by an a t t o r n e y to d a y ? 14 A. Y e s . 15 Q. Mr. F e a t h e r s t o n e ? 15 A. Y e s . 17 Q. What was t h e s u b j e c t m a tte r of t h e d e p o s i t i o n 18 you had t a k e n i n 1986 or 1987? 19 A. That was a case t h a t i n v o l v e d a t r a n s f o r m e r 20 f i r e i n San F r a n c i s c o . 21 Q. Going back t o t h e 1992 d e p o s i t i o n , do you 22 r e c a l l the names o f any of t h e p a r t i e s i n t h a t 1 a w s u it ? 23 A. My mind i s a b la n k on t h e 1992 d e p o s i t i o n . 24 Q. Does Stroh Die C a s tin g sound f a m i l i a r to you? 25 A. No. - 7CONCANNON & JAEGER COIIPO"TER AID3D TRANSCRIPT ION I Q. Do you r e c a l l the names of any a t t o r n e y s t h a t 2 were p r e s e n t durin g your 1992 d e p o s i t i o n ? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Do you know whether t h e case i n which you gave 5 a d e p o s i t i o n i n 1992 r e s u l t e d i n a t r i a l ? 6 A. I t didn' t . 7 Q. I t did not r e s u lt in a t r i a l ? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. Did i t s e t t l e ? 10 A. I d o n ' t know. To t h e best of ray r e c o l l e c t i o n , 11 the d e p o s i t i o n I gave i n 1992 d i d not i n v o l v e c h l o r i n a t e d 12 b i p h e n y l s . 13 Q. A l l r i g h t . What was t h e n a t u r e of the d e p o s i 14 t i o n you gave i n 1 9 8 6 -'8 7 ? 15 A. There had been, in a l a r g e b u i l d i n g i n San 16 F r a n c i s c o , fume damage t o t h e i n t e r i o r of t h e b u i l d i n g 17 r e s u l t i n g from the involve m e nt i n a v o l t t r a n s f o r m e r i n t h e 18 s t r e e t o u t s i d e t h e b u i l d i n g , and t h e damage t o t h e i n t e r i o r 12 of the b u i l d i n g had r e s u l t e d i n r e n o v a t i o n o f t h e i n t e r i o r 20 of the b u i l d i n g . The in s u r a n c e company who had p r o c e s s e d 21 the c la im f o r th e damage to t h e i n t e r i o r of t h e b u i l d i n g 22 was s e e k in g t o r e c o v e r c e r t a i n o f t h e i r damage from oo Monsanto and o th e rs . 24 Q. And d id you t e s t i f y i n t h a t d e p o s i t i o n about 25 the work you had done a t Monsanto r e l a t e d t o c h l o r i n a t e d - 8CONGANNOK & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 biphenyls? 2 A. Yes, I did. 3 Q. I now would l i k e you t o g i v e me a summary of 4 your educational history beginning with your f i r s t college 5 attendance. 6 A. I attended T rin ity College Cambridge, in 7 England, and I have a degree in th e N a tu r a l S c i e n c e s , and 8 p a r t two of th e Law T r i p o s . 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. That gave me a B a c h e lo r of A r t s i n N a t u r a l 11 S c i e n c e . 12 The degree system of an e x p e r t i s d i f f e r e n t i n 13 England t o t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s . When I l e f t Cambridge U n i 14 v e r s i t y I j o i n e d Monsanto i n G r e a t B r i t a i n and have worked 15 with Monsanto from t h a t tim e t o t h e p r e s e n t . 16 Q. Does t h e degree you r e c e i v e d i n d i c a t e you 17 r e c e i v e d a B a c h e l o r ' s Degree? 18 A. I r e c e i v e d a B a c h e l o r ' s D e gre e , y e s . 19 Q. A l l r i g h t . And i n G r e a t B r i t a i n i s t h a t the 20 e q u i v a l e n t of some s i m i l a r degree from American u n i v e r s i oi ties? 22 A. The degree system in Cambridge U n i v e r s i t y says 23 t h a t I c o u l d , in a t h r e e - y e a r p e r i o d , which I spen t a t 24 Cambridge U n iv e rsity , gain the equivalent in American terms 25 of a BSC i n s c i e n c e , and have proceeded thro u gh a o n e -y e a r - 9- COMCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 law c o a rse which woula have exempted me from two y e a r s of 2 chambers work had I chosen to pursue the lav; as an a c t i v e 3 legal profession. 4 Q. And you i n d i c a t e d t h a t you s t u d i e d N a t u r a l 5 Sciences? is that correct? 6 A. That is correct. 7 Q. And when d id you a t t e n d T r i n i t y C o l l e g e ? 8 A. 1957 t o *59. 9 Q. How o l d were you when you began c o l l e g e ? 10 A. S e v e n t e e n . 11 Q. As p a r t of your study of n a t u r a l s c i e n c e s , did 12 you study p o l y c h l o r i n a t e d b i p h e n y l s ? 13 A. No, I d id n o t . 14 Q. You a l s o i n d i c a t e d t h a t you s t u d i e d p a r t two 1\5 of the Lav; T r i p o s ? 16 A. That i s c o r r e c t . 17 Q. What i s t h e Law T r i p o s ? 18 A, The Law T r ip o s i s t h e t h r e e - y e a r s tu d y of la w , 19 which i s th e n f o l l o w e d by another two y e a r s of chamber 20 work, which would have equipped me t o p r a c t i c e law and be 21 c a l l e d t o t h e bar i n G r e a t B r i t a i n . 22 In p a r t two of the Lav; T r i p o s , I e s s e n t i a l l y 23 covere d t h e t h e o r e t i c a l study of c o n t r a c t lav;, communal 24 p r o p e r t y , h i s t o r y of la w . Those were t h e major a r e a s o f 25 s t udy. - 10 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COKE>UTER AIDED TRANSCRIPT ION J7L Q. linen you began work w ith Monsanto, was t h a t i n 2 their Great B ritain o ffice? 3 A. Yes, i t was. 4 Q. What y e a r d id you b e g in work f o r Monsanto? 5 A. 1959. 6 Q, What j o b t i t l e d id you have when you began 7 work f o r Monsanto i n 1959? 8 A. Sales tr a in e e . 9 Q. What work d i d you do as a s a l e s t r a i n e e ? 10 A. I began t o l e a r n about Monsanto, Monsanto1s i l lin e of products, the ben efits that those products could 12 b r i n g t o t h e B r i t i s h i n d u s t r y , and t o l e a r n how to s e l l 13 those p r o d u c t s t o B r i t i s h i n d u s t r i a l u s e r s of th e c h e m ic a l s 14 t h a t Monsanto produced. 15 Q. As a s a l e s t r a i n e e , I take i t you were r e c e i v 16 ing t r a i n i n g from one person or s e v e r a l p e o p l e ? 17 A. I was r e c e i v i n g t r a i n i n g from many p e o p l e . 18 Q. And how lo n g were you a s a l e s t r a i n e e ? 19 A. A p p r o xim a te ly one y e a r . 20 Q. During th e one year you were a s a l e s t r a i n e e , 21 d id you l e a r n t h a t Monsanto m a n u fa ctu re d p o l y c h l o r i n a t e d 22 b i p h e n y l s ? 23 A. No, I d id n o t . 24 Q. What work -- Excuse me. What was your next 25 jo b t i t l e ? - 11 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION X1 A. The next j o b t i t l e was salesman i n t h e U n i t e d 2 Kingdom. 3 Q. How lo n g were you a salesman i n t h e U n i t e d 4 Kingdom fo r Monsanto? 5 A. A p p ro xim a te ly two t o t h r e e y e a r s . 6 Q. Who was your s u p e r v i s o r when you were a s a l e s - 7 man a t Monsanto? 8 A. Dennis Hope. 9 Q. H-o-p-e? 10 A. Uh-huh. 11 Q. What work d i d you do a s a salesman f o r 12 Monsanto i n t h e U n i t e d Kingdom? 13 A. I was s e l l i n g o r g a n i c s i l i c a t e s , which were 14 used i n t h e p r e c i s i o n c a s t i n g o f toughened m e t a l s f o r 15 a p p l i c a t i o n s such as t h e r o t a t i n g b l a d e s i n j e t a v i a t i o n . 16 Q. During t h a t t w o - t o - t h r e e - y e a r p e r i o d when you 17 were a sa le sm a n , d id you s e l l p ro d u c t s c o n t a i n i n g p o l y 18 c h l o r i n a t e d b i p h e n y l s ? IS A. No, I did n o t. 20 Q. What was your next j o b t i t l e ? 21 A. I was a European-wide s a le s m a n . 22 Q. What was your j o b t i t l e ? , 23 A. S a l e s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e . 24 Q. And was i t s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e , p e r i o d , or 25 s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e f o r Europe? - 12 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRAMSCRIPT10B 1 A. I d o n ' t b e l i e v e we made t h a t d i s t i n c t i o n , 2 Q. A l l r ig h t . But your job r e s p o n s i b i l i t i e s 3 involved sales throughout Europe? 4 A, At th at p o in t, yes, throughoutEurope. 5 Q. And what y e a r d id you become a s a l e s r e p r e 6 sentative? 7 A. I don* t r e c a l l . 8 Q. Would i t have been in roughly 1962 or '63? 9 A. Given the time I jo in ed Monsanto, i t would 10 have been l i k e l y to have been i n t h a t p e r i o d . 11 Q. How lo n g were you a s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e f o r 12 Monsanto? 13 A. E s s e n t i a l l y through 1966 or *67. 14 Q. During t h e tim e you were a s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a 15 t i v e , were you i n v o l v e d i n t h e s a l e of Monsanto p r o d u c t s 16 c o n t a i n i n g p o l y c h l o r i n a t e d b i p h e n y l s ? 17 A. Y e s , I . w a s . 18 Q. What i n f o r m a t i o n -- W e l l , l e t me ask t h i s : 19 What p r o d u c t s were you s e l l i n g a s a s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e 20 t h a t c o n t a in e d PCBs m anu factu red by Monsanto? 21 A. I was i n v o l v e d i n s a l e s of A r o c l o r c a p a c i t o r 22 f l u i d s and P y r o c l o r t r a n s f o r m e r f l u i d s . 23 Q. Were you i n v o l v e d i n t h e s a l e of P yranol 24 t r a n sfo r m e r f l u i d s , as w e l l ? 25 A. I s h o u ld e x p l a i n . That* s when I s o l d - 13 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 P yro clo r. In Europe Monsanto sold PCB-containing tr a n s 2 former f l u i d s under a trademark, P y r o c l o r . They were 3 s im ila r to the f l u i d s which were sold in the United S ta te s 4 under various other corporate, such as GE, Pyranol, 5 Westinghouse -- Pyranol was a trademark o f G e n e r a l 6 E l e c t r i c . I n e r t e e n was a trademark of W e s t in g h o u s e . 7 Q. During t h e 19 -- During th e time you were a 8 sales rep resen tativ e, did you s e ll products th a t contained 9 the equ ivalent of Aroclor 1242? 10 A. Y e s , I d i d . 11 Q. Under what brand name? 12 A. P y r o c l o r , p r o b a b ly . 13 Q. During t h e tim e you were a s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a 14 t i v e , how many f o r m u l a t i o n s o f P y r o c lo r were you s e l l i n g ? 15 A. P y r o c l o r was -- There were no more than two 16 f o r m u l a t i o n s t h a t I r e c a l l of P y r o c l o r . 17 Q. What were th e f o r m u l a t i o n s t h a t you r e c a l l 1 8 s e l l i n g w hile you were a s a le s re p re s e n ta tiv e ? 19 A. One was a m i x t u r e of a h i g h e r c h l o r i n a t e d 20 A r o c l o r , A r o c l o r 1260, with t r i c h l o r o b e n z e n e , with a sm all 21 a d d i t i o n of t e t r a phenyl t i n as a s c a v e n g e r . 22 Q. Would you s p e l l t h a t f o r me? 23 A. T - e - t - r - a , t e t r a , p h e n y l , p - h - e - n - y - 1 , t i n , 24 t - i - n . 25 And t h e other was a m i x t u r e of h i g h e r - 14 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 c h l o r i n a t e d b i p h e n y l , with t r i ch i or obe nz e n e , with PPO as a 2 scavenger. 3 Q. Did t h e P y r o c l o r s have s p e c i f i c names t h a t you 4 r e fe r r e d to them by? 5 A. P yroclor. 6 Q. Did the d if f e r e n t form ulations have s p e c i f i c 7 names? 8 A. I don't r e c a ll. 9 Q. You had i n d i c a t e d e a r l i e r -- L e t me ask i t 10 t h i s ways D id t h e f i r s t f o r m u l a t i o n r e l a t e t o t h e t r a d e 11 mark of I n e r t e e n or P y r a n o l ? 12 A. I'm s o r r y . I 'm not sure I u n d e rsta n d your 13 q u e s t i o n . 14 Q. Did t h e f i r s t f o r m u l a t i o n resem b le I n e r t e e n or 15 P y r a n o l ? 16 A. The f i r s t f o r m u l a t i o n t h a t I mentioned r e l a t e d 17 t o P y r a n o l , t h e second f o r m u l a t i o n r e l a t e d more c l o s e l y to 18 I n e r t e e n . 19 Q. Who w i t h i n Monsanto, i f you know, was 20 r e s p o n s i b l e f o r s e l l i n g PCS p ro d u c t s i n Europe t h a t were 21 s i m i l a r but not i d e n t i c a l to P y r a n o l ? 22 A. Are you a s k i n g me, were t h e r e o th e r companies 23 s e l l i n g s i m i l a r m a t e r i a l s or who was r e s p o n s i b l e w i t h i n oAAA Monsanto f o r th o se p r o d u c t s ? 25 Q. W it h in Monsanto. - 15 COMCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 HR. FEATHERSTONE: W e l l , y o u ' r e o b v i o u s l y 2 e x c l u d i n g Mr. Wood, who s o l d a P y r o c lo r t h a t was s i m i l a r to 3 but not id e n tica l to Pyranol. 4 THE WITNESS: You1re go in g t o have t o ask me 5 the question again. 6 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y) I ' m i n t e r e s t e d i n knowing 7 who w i t h i n Monsanto determ ined t h a t f o r i t s European s a l e s 8 i t would s e l l a p rodu ct t h a t was s i m i i a r t o but not i d e n t i 9 c a l to P y r a n o l, which was s o l d i n the U n i t e d S t a t e s . 10 MR. FEATHERSTONE: O b j e c t t o t h e form of the 11 q u e s t i o n . 12 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y) The way th e r u l e s f o r depo 13 s i t i o n s work, when an o b j e c t i o n i s made, y o u ' r e s t i l l 14 r e q u i r e d t o answer u n l e s s y o u 1re i n s t r u c t e d no t t o . So go 15 ahead and answer my q u e s t i o n . 16 A. The f o r m u l a t i o n of tr a n s f o r m e r f l u i d s t h a t 17 Monsanto s o l d i n t h a t p e r i o d i n Europe would be proposed by 18 th e b u s i n e s s management i n t h e U n it e d S t a t e s , and a t such 19 time a s they had recommended a f o r m u l a t i o n t o be s o l d , we 20 would conduct s t u d i e s i n Europe t o make su re t h a t m a t e r i a l 21 s a l e was c o m p a tib le w it h r e s p o n s i b l e b u s i n e s s p r a c t i c e i n 22 comparison t o c o m p e t i t i v e m a t e r i a l s s o l d by F r e n c h , German 23 and I t a l i a n p ro d u c e r s of s i m i l a r m a t e r i a l s . 24 Q. Did you ever speak with anyone w ith in the 25 b u s i n e s s group of Monsanto i n t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s where they - 16 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 ind icated to you the reason for the p a rtic u la r form ulation 2 of PCS t h a t was s o l d t h r o u g h o u t Europe by you when you were 3 a sales representative? 4 A. Y e s. I t a l k e d t o Mr. Paul B e n ig n u s , 5 B-e-n-i-g -n-u-s. 6 Q. Did you speak w i t h Mr . Benignus d u r i n g t h e 7 time you were a sa le s rep? 3 A* Yes, I did. 9 Q. Was t h a t i n person or v i a t h e t e le p h o n e or 10 bo th ? 11 A. B o th . 12 Q. What d id Mr. Benignus t e l l you was t h e r e a s o n 13 t h a t Monsanto was s e l l i n g t h e p a r t i c u l a r f o r m u l a t i o n s o f 14 PCBs in Europe during th e time you were a s a l e s re p re s e n ta 15 t i v e ? 16 MR. FEATHERSTONE; Y o u 'r e now t a l k i n g about 17 t h e P y r o c l o r ? 18 MR. BRADLEY: Y e s . 19 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Okay. 20 A. Mr. Benignus t o l d me a t t h a t p o i n t i n tim e 21 t h a t we i n Monsanto were making m a t e r i a l s t h a t were r e l a t e d 22 to f o r m u l a t i o n s t h a t had been in v e n t e d by G e n e r a l E l e c t r i c ? 23 and t h a t ? as su c h , the f o r m u l a t i o n s t h a t we were s e l l i n g , 24 i f we were to use performance data which had been g e n e r a t e d 25 i n t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s , t h e f o r m u l a t i o n s had t o be a l i g n e d - 17 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 with the f o r m u l a t i o n s t h a t we made f o r G e n e r a l E l e c t r i c i n 2 the States. 3 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) Did Mr. Benignus t e l l you 4 why you would not be s e l l i n g t h e s p e c i f i c f o r m u l a t i o n made 5 by GE i n t h e S t a t e s ? 6 MR. FEATHERSTONE: You have not e s t a b l i s h e d 7 t h a t . I object to the form of the q u estion . 3 Q. (by Mr. B rad ley) Go ahead and answer. 9 A. I ' d l i k e you to rephrase the q u e stio n . 10 Q. As I understand i t th e f o r m u l a t i o n of P y r o c l o r 11 t h a t was s o l d was s i m i l a r to but not i d e n t i c a l to t h e 12 f o r m u l a t i o n made by GE i n t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s ? i s t h a t 13 c o r r e c t ? 14 A. Py r a n o l , as f o r m u l a t e d by G e n e r a l E l e c t r i c , , 15 i t s e l f had s e v e r a l f o r m u l a t i o n fo r m s . They c o u l d v a ry 16 depending on whether t r i c h l o r o b e n z e n e was used a s an 17 a d d i t i v e , whether a t r i t e t r a c h lo ro b e n z e n e was used as t h e 18 a d d i t i v e , to t h e p e r c e n t a g e r a t i o between t h e c h l o r i n a t e d 19 benzene and t h e c h l o r i n a t e d b i p h e n y l , and t o t h e c o n c e n t r a 20 t i o n of t h e scaveng er t h a t I had t a l k e d a b o u t , th e t e t r a 21 p henyl t i n . We d e c id e d t o s t a n d a r d i z e on one of the formu 22 l a t i o n s f o r s a l e i n Europe, which was an e x a c t r e p l i c a t i o n 23 of one of t h e P yranol grades s o l d by G e n e r a l E l e c t r i c i n 24 the U n i t e d S t a t e s . 25 Q. Do you r e c a l l which of th e Pyranol grades s o l d - 18 COHCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 in the United S ta te s you sold in Europe? 2 A. No, I don1t . But here we1re t a l k i n g sm all 3 d is t in c t io n s between these various grades of product. 4 Q. Was t h e o th e r f o r m u l a t i o n t h a t you s o l d w h i l e 5 a s a le s rep resen tative id e n t ic a l to an Inerteen form ulation 6 t h a t was m anufactured and s o l d i n th e U n it e d S t a t e s ? 7 A. Y e s . The b a s i c d i f f e r e n c e between t h e two 8 g r a d e s o f P y r o c lo r was i n t h e sca ve ng e r t h a t was used. And 9 e s s e n t i a l l y , th e p ro d u c t t h a t vie s o l d i n Europe was t h e 10 same as I n e r t e e n KA, I b e l i e v e was t h e d e s i g n a t i o n . 11 Q. Did you r e c e i v e any t r a i n i n g p r i o r to becoming 12 a s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e r e g a r d i n g P y r o c l o r ? 13 A. Once I had assumed r e s p o n s i b i l i t y f o r s a l e s of 14 P y r o c l o r , I r e c e i v e d t r a i n i n g . 15 Q. Where d id you r e c e i v e t h e t r a i n i n g ? 16 A. I r e c e i v e d some t r a i n i n g i n Europe and I 17 r e c e i v e d some t r a i n i n g i n t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s . I 18 Q. Was t h e t r a i n i n g j u s t f o r y o u , or were you 19 p a r t of a group t h a t was b e in g t r a i n e d on P y r o c l o r ? 20 A. In terms of s a l e s of d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s i n 21 Europe, a t t h a t p o i n t i n tim e I was t h e person r e s p o n s i b l e 22 f o r s e l l i n g d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s i n Europe. 23 Q. And I ta k e i t , th e n , the t r a i n i n g was d i r e c t e d 24 j u s t towards you when you r e c e i v e d t r a i n i n g r e g a r d i n g 25 P y r o c l o r ? - 19 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRAMSCRIPTION 1 A. Yes -- 2 Q. Who gave you -- 3 A. -- at th a t tim e. 4 Q. And we1re t a l k i n g about d u rin g t h e tim e t h a t 5 you were a s a le s r e p r e s e n ta tiv e . 6 A. Uh-huh. 7 Q. In f a c t , u n t i l I ask you q u e stio n s about your 8 nest jo b r e s p o n s i b i l i t y , I w i l l assume t h a t a l l of your 9 answers r e l a t e to th e work you did as a s a l e s r e p r e s e n ta 10 t i v e . P a i r enough? 11 A. Y e s . 12 Q. A l l r i g h t . Who gave you t h e t r a i n i n g r e g a r d 13 i n g P y r o c l o r ? 14 A. In Europe I was t r a i n e d by John C am p b ell, by 15 C o l i n Coleman, C - o - l - e - m - a - n , and R i c h a r d B a x t e r . 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. In t h e U n it e d S t a t e s I r e c e i v e d t r a i n i n g from 18 Paul B e n ig n u s . I S Q. What j o b t i t l e d id J o h n Campbell have when you 20 r e c e i v e d t r a i n i n g from him? 21 A. Products u p e r v i s o r , s p e c i a l t y c h e m i c a l s . 22 Q. Was Jo h n Campbell a m e d i c a l d o c t o r ? 23 A. Mo, he w a s n * t . 24 Q. Was he a t o x i c o l o g i s t ? 25 A. Wo. - 20 CONCANKON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. Was he an e p i d e m i o l o g i s t ? 2 A. No, he was n o t . 3 Q. Was he a businessm an? 4 A. Yes, he was. 5 Q. Was h i s t r a i n i n g i n b u s i n e s s ? 6 A. His t r a i n i n g was i n s c i e n c e . He ad o p te d a 7 business career. 8 Q. Do you know whether Jo h n Campbell had r e c e i v e d 9 a d o c t o r a t e degree when you r e c e i v e d t r a i n i n g from him? 10 A. Jo h n had r e c e i v e d a Doctor of S c i e n c e degree 11 b e f o r e he t r a i n e d me. 12 Q. A l l r i g h t . And what j o b t i t l e d id C o l i n 13 Coleman have when you r e c e i v e d t r a i n i n g from him? 14 A. He was an MTS r e p r e s e n t a t i v e . MTS i s a term 15 in Monsanto used t o mean M a rk e tin g T e c h n i c a l S e r v i c e s . 16 Q, I take i t , t h e n , C o l i n Coleman was not a 17 m edical d o c t o r ? 18 A. He was not a m e d ic a l d o c t o r . He was n o t a 19 d o c t o r . 20 Q. Nor was he a t o x i c o l o g i s t ? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Nor was he an e p i d e m i o l o g i s t ? 23 A. He was not an e p i d e m i o l o g i s t . <L4 Q. Do you knowwhether h i s e d u c a t i o n a l background 25 was i n b u s i n e s s ? - 21 - CONCANNON k JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. His t r a i n i n g was in s c i e n c e . 2 Q. And do you r e c a l l what s c i e n c e he r e c e i v e d 3 training in? 4 A. Chemistry and p h y s ic s . 5 Q. And what j o b t i t l e d id R i c h a r d B a x t e r have 6 when you r e c e i v e d t r a i n i n g from him? 7 A. He was manager of r e s e a r c h i n our l a b o r a t o r y 8 in North Whales, England. 9 Q. Was R i c h a r d B a x t e r a d o c t o r ? IQ A. Y e s . He was a d oc tor of s c i e n c e . 11 Q. He was not a m e d ic a l d o c t o r , t h e n ? 12 A. He was not a m e d ic a l d o c t o r . 13 Q. Was he a t o x i c o l o g i s t . 14 A. No, he was not a t o x i c o l o g i s t . 15 Q. Was he an e p i d e m i o l o g i s t ? 16 A. No. 17 Q. What was h i s s p e c i a l t y in s c i e n c e ? 18 A. C h e m i s t r y . 19 Q. Do you know what a re a of c h e m is t r y he 20 s p e c i a l i s e d i n ? I f t h e r e was an a r e a . 21 A. Chemical s y n t h e s i s . 22 Q. What was Paul Benignus* s j o b t i t l e when you 23 r e c e i v e d t r a i n i n g from him? 24 A. Product manager, d i e l e c t r a s . 25 Q. I s Paul Benignus a d o c t o r ? - 22 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. No, he i s n o t . 2 Q. Is he a t o x i c o l o g i s t ? O A. No, he i s n o t . * 4 Q. Is he an e p id e m io lo g is t? 5 A. No, he i s n o t . 6 Q. Do you know whether h i s e d u c a t i o n a l background 7 is in business? 8 A. Yes, i t i s . 9 Q. You i n d i c a t e d t h a t you r e c e iv e d t r a i n i n g from 1G Mr. Benignus i n t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s ? i s t h a t c o r r e c t ? 11 A. I want t o r e v i s i t t h a t q u e s t i o n because you 12 asked me t o c o n f i n e my comments t o t h e tim e when I was a 13 s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e , and I d o n ' t b e l i e v e I r e c e i v e d 14 t r a i n i n g from Paul i n t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s w h i l e I was a s a l e s 15 r e p r e s e n t a t i v e . I c e r t a i n l y met and was i n s t r u c t e d by Paul IS in Europe d u r in g t h e tim e t h a t I was a s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a 17 t i v e . 18 (Thereupon, a s h o r t r e c e s s was t a k e n . ) 19 Q. (by Mr. B rad ley) A l l r i g h t . Did you r e c e i v e 20 any w r i t t e n m a t e r i a l s a s p a r t of the t r a i n i n g you r e c e i v e d 21 from J o h n Ca m pbe ll, C o l i n Coleman, R i c h a r d B a x t e r or Paul 22 Benignus r e g a r d i n g P y r o c l o r ? 23 A. I s m sure I d i d . 24 Q. Do you r e c a l l th e n a t u r e of the w r i t t e n 25 m a t e r i a l t h a t you r e c e i v e d from th ose gentlem en? - 23 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. In th e p e r io d t h a t I was a s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a tiv e I would have received and I would have reviewed with 3 them such th in g s as t e c h n i c a l l i t e r a t u r e about th e product 4 at that time. I would have received the m aterial related 5 to the maintenance of equipment containing those flu id s at 6 that time. I would have received reports about the nature 7 of the marketplace and use of these m a te r ia ls in the 8 European community, including Great B r i t a in . That would 8 have included packaging and handling inform ation surround 10 in g t h e t r a n s p o r t a t i o n and s t o r a g e of t h e s e m a t e r i a l s . I l i would have received in d u s t r i a l hygiene inform ation as to 12 how workers i n our customers' p l a n t s were t o use th e s e 13 m a t e r i a l s . 14 Now, t h a t l i s t , I must have you understan d a t 15 t h i s l a t e r s t a g e , i s not e x h a u s t i v e or c o m p le t e . I 16 p ro ba b ly r e c e i v e d i n f o r m a t i o n on o t h e r s u b j e c t s , but t h o s e 17 s p e c i f i c a r e a s , d e f i n i t e l y I would have r e c e i v e d and did 18 r e c e i v e i n f o r m a t i o n a b o u t . 19 Q. Do you r e c a l l th e t i t l e s o f any of t h e docu 20 ments t h a t you r e c e iv e d w h ile a s a l e s rep as p a r t of your 21 t r a i n i n g on P y r o c l o r ? 22 A. I would have r e c e i v e d th e t e c h n i c a l l i t e r a t u r e 23 which I can r e c a l l a t t h i s d a t e . I t was a blue b in d e r of 24 m a t e r i a l w i t h a t i t l e , " P y r o c l o r , " and I would have 25 r e c e i v e d c o p i e s o f a document r e l a t e d t o t h e s e r v i c i n g and - 24 COMCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 maintenance of equipment which was c a l l e d an A s k a r e l 2 Maintenance Guide. Askarel, A -s -k -a -r-e -1 . 3 Q. What was i n th e b lue binder of m a t e r i a l 4 e n t it le d "P y ro clo r"? 5 A. Information about the areas in which f i r e - 6 r e t a r d a n t tr a n s f o r m e r s would be used. I t would have 7 contained information about compatible so lid elastomeric 8 m a t e r i a l s t h a t would be used i n th e c o n s t r u c t i o n of 9 transformers in combination with chlorinated biphenyl 10 l i q u i d d i e l e c t r i c s . 11 Q. What do you mean when you r e f e r to t e c h n i c a l 12 l i t e r a t u r e ? 13 A. When I r e f e r to t e c h n i c a l l i t e r a t u r e , I r e f e r 14 to l i t e r a t u r e which w i l l d e f i n e t h e p ro d u c t i n t e c h n i c a l 15 term s. I t w i l l d e f i n e the a re a of a p p l i c a t i o n o f such 16 ch e m ica l p r o d u c t s . I t w i l l d e f i n e the r e l a t i o n s h i p between 17 t h a t chem ical m a t e r i a l and o th e r m a t e r i a l s t h a t w i l l be 18 combined w it h i t i n che m ic a l a p p l i c a t i o n . I t w i l l d e f i n e 19 how the m a t e r i a l s h o u ld be s t o r e d and h a n d le d . I t w i l l 20 include i n d u s t r i a l hygiene p r a c t ic e r e l a t e d to the 21 m a t e r i a l . I t w i l l i n c l u d e d i s p o s a l methodology f o r waste 22 m a t e r i a l s . I t w i l l i n c l u d e d e t a i l e d t e c h n i c a l s p e c i f i c a 23 t i o n s f o r t h e p r o d u c t , and i t w i l l p ro b a b ly i n c l u d e , in 24 many c a s e s , r e l e v a n t codes and i n d u s t r y codes and s t a n d a r d s which r e l a t e to the m a t e r i a l , and i t w i l l o f t e n c o n t a in - 25 - CONCANHOW & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED.TRANSCRIPTION 1 c h a r t e d m a t e r i a l by t h e way of c h a r t s and graphs which w i l l 2 relate to the performance properties of the m aterial. 3 In the case of something lik e Pyroclor, i t 4 would include such things as the d i e l e c t r i c s tre n g th , the 5 v a r i a t i o n of d i e l e c t r i c s tre n g th and tem perature, the 6 variatio n of d ie le c tr ic strength with the frequency of the 7 power which was b e in g c o n t r o l l e d by the t r a n s f o r m e r . 8 This i s an overview of the types of things 9 that a piece of technical lite ra tu re related to a chemical 10 i n s u l a t i n g f l u i d would have t o p o r t r a y to t h e custom er, a 11 very wide range of i n f o r m a t i o n i n v o l v i n g both the p ro p e r 12 t i e s and t h e usage and h a n d l i n g o f t h a t m a t e r i a l . 13 Q. Was t h e t e c h n i c a l l i t e r a t u r e i n t h e blue 14 b in d e r o f m a t e r i a l e n t i t l e d " P y r o c l o r " p r i m a r i l y l i t e r a t u r e 15 d e v e lo p e d i n - h o u s e by Monsanto? 16 A. There c e r t a i n l y was i n f o r m a t i o n t h a t was 17 s o l e l y g e n e r a t e d by Monsanto, but e q u a l l y , our P y r o c l o r 18 l i t e r a t u r e would draw on i n f o r m a t i o n t h a t had been 19 g e n e r a t e d by s t a n d a r d s and c o d e - s e t t i n g committees i n t h e 20 U n it e d S t a t e s , and i t would g i v e r e f e r e n c e and c r e d i t to 21 th o s e p a r t i c u l a r da ta s o u r c e s . 22 Q. Other than s t a n d a r d and code p u b l i c a t i o n s were 23 t h e r e any other p u b l i c a t i o n s w i t h i n t h e b in d e r m a t e r i a l 24 e n t i t l e d " P y r o c l o r " t h a t were not i n - h o u s e - g e n e r a t e d docu 25 ments by Monsanto? - 26 - CONGANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED-TRANSCRIPTION 1 MR. FEATHERSTONE: You mean s p e c i f i c a l l y c i t e d 2 in the brochure? Because you have not e s ta b lish e d th a t he 3 a c tu a lly drafted the document. 4 MR. BRADLEY: I assumed t h a t he d i d n ' t . He 5 s a i d t h a t he was provid ed i t . 6 MR. FEATHERSTONE: R i g h t . But how would he 7 know what m a t e r i a l was l o o k e d a t t o d e v e lo p t h i s i f he 8 didn't draft it? 9 MR. BRADLEY: I d i d n ' t ask him what he -- what 10 m a t e r i a l was l o o k e d a t t o d r a f t i t . I asked him what was 11 in t h e blue b i n d e r . At l e a s t t h a t ' s what I t h o u g h t I asked 12 him. 13 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Okay. Then I make ~ 14 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Okay. L et me ask t h e q u e s 15 t i o n a g a i n . W it h in t h e blue b in der of m a t e r i a l e n t i t l e 16 " P y r o c l o r , " was t h e r e any other t e c h n i c a l l i t e r a t u r e 17 g e n e r a t e d o u t s i d e Monsanto o t h e r than by c o d e - s e t t i n g 18 gr o u p s ? 19 A. I t h i n k t h e most d i r e c t way I can answer t h a t 20 q u e s t i o n i s t h a t t h e P y r o c l o r l i t e r a t u r e i n Europe was 21 based on t h e d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d l i t e r a t u r e which had been 22 g e n e r a t e d by Monsanto in t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s , and t h a t 23 l i t e r a t u r e had been developed by Monsanto i n c o m b in a tio n 24 w ith our customers i n t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s . 25 Q. For example, in t h e blue b in d e r of m a t e r i a l - 27 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 e n t i t l e d " P y r o c l o r ," were th e r e any co p ie s o f any s t u d ie s 2 done by i n d i v i d u a l s or groups o f p eo p le o t h e r than Monsanto 3 employees r e l a t i n g to the h e a lth and s a f e t y of people 4 exposed to PCBs? 5 A. I don't r e c a l l . 6 Q. Do you r e c a l l t h e r e b e in g anyr e f e r e n c e i n t h e 7 b l u e bin der of m a t e r i a l e n t i t l e d " P y r o c l o r " t o a 1937 8 r o u n d -ta b le d i s c u s s i o n t h a t was r e p o rte d i n th e J o u r n a l of 9 Industrial Hygiene? 10 A. No, I d o n ' t . 11 Q. As I u n de rsta n dyour t e s t i m o n y , youc ea se d 12 b e in g t h e s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e around 1967? 13 A. I t ' s n o t c l e a r i n my own mind. At a p o i n t i n 14 tim e I was not t h e s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e f o r d i e l e c t r i c 15 f l u i d s . I e s s e n t i a l l y became t h e m a r k e t in g manager f o r 16 d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s , r e p l a c i n g J o h n C a m p b e l l ' s r o l e of t h e 17 same p e r i o d of t i m e . Althou gh I had European-wide 18 r e s p o n s i b i l i t y , I was r e l o c a t i n g from th e U n i t e d Kingdom to 19 th e B r u s s e l s h e a d q u a r t e r s du rin g t h a t p e r i o d . 20 We moved t h e European h e a d q u a r t e r s from London 21 to B r u s s e l s , and e s s e n t i a l l y I s t i l l m a i n t a in e d t h e same 22 c o n t a c t and r e l a t i o n s h i p w ith t h e European e l e c t r i c a l 23 i n d u s t r y , but t h e r e had been a s u b t l e s h i f t i n my 24 r e s p o n s i b i l i t i e s from t h a t of p u r e l y t h e s a l e s c o n t a c t w ith 25 the m a r k e tp la c e t o r a t h e r e s t a b l i s h i n g what our s a l e s and - 28 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 performance s t r a t e g y f o r t h a t p a r t i c u l a r p roduct l i n e was 2 in Europe. 3 Q. And when you became m a r k e tin g manager, d id t h e 4 blue binder of material e n title "Pyroclor" s t i l l exist? 5 A. Yes, i t did. 6 Q. Did you use -- L e t me r ep h rase t h e q u e s t i o n . 7 During the time t h a t you were marketing manager did you 8 maintain the blue binder of material e n title "Pyroclor"? 9 A. We m a i n t a in e d t e c h n i c a l l i t e r a t u r e r e l a t i v e to IO the use and h a n d lin g of P y r o c l o r . Whether i t remained blue 11 d u rin g t h a t whole p e r i o d , I r e a l l y d on"t remember, 12 MR. BRADLEY? C o u ld you read back t h a t answer, 13 p l e a s e ? 14 {Thereupon, the r e p o r t e r read back t h e an sw e r.) 3.5 Q. (by Mr. B rad ley) Did you have f i l e s o f 16 l i t e r a t u r e on PCBs d u ring t h e time t h a t you were s a l e s 17 r e p r e s e n t a t i v e , o th e r than m a t e r i a l s c o n t a i n e d i n t h e blue 18 b in d e r e n t i t l e d " P y r o c l o r " ? 19 A. Would you r e p e a t t h a t q u e s t i o n , p l e a s e ? 20 Q. Did you have m a t e r i a l s on PCBs during the 21 p e r i o d of tim e you were s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e , o t h e r tha n 22 the m a t e r i a l t h a t was i n t h e blue binder e n t i t l e d 23 " P y r o c l o r " ? 24 A. We would have had e q u i v a l e n t l i t e r a t u r e which 25 r e l a t e d t o t h e use o f the A r o c l o r f a m i l y of p r o d u c t s i n - 29 COMCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRAUSCRIPTION 1 c a p a c i t o r s . We would have i n c e r t a i n s i t u a t i o n s made use 2 of American l it e r a t u r e . 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. And our market t e c h n i c a l s e r v i c e group would 5 prepare s p e c i f i c p r o j e c t r e p o r t s on i s s u e s which were 6 r a i s e d by s p e c i f i c customers r e l a t i v e t o t h e i r i n d i v i d u a l 7 use of our m a t e r i a ls . 8 Q. And t h i s was a l l m a t e r i a l t h a t you would have 9 maintained but would not have been w ithin the blue binder IO of m a t e r i a l e n t i t l e d " P y r o c l o r " ? 11 A. T h is i s t r u e . 12 Q. And where was t h i s l i t e r a t u r e or -- Excuse me. 13 Where was t h i s m a t e r i a l k e p t ? 14 A. C o p ie s o f t h i s l i t e r a t u r e would be kept i n our 15 -- c e r t a i n l y i t was m a i n t a in e d i n our B r u s s e l s o f f i c e . But 16 i n our r e g i o n a l s a l e s o f f i c e s ? p eo p le would have a c c e s s to 17 s e t s of t h a t da ta t o send t o both c u r r e n t and p r o s p e c t i v e 18 c u sto m e rs. 19 MR. FEATHERSTONE: W e're now s w i t c h i n g between 20 the time p e r i o d t h a t you were s a l e s rep and t h e tim e p e r io d 21 you were m a r k e t in g manager? because you j u s t now made 22 r e f e r e n c e to t h e B r u s s e l s o f f i c e . 23 A. Uh-huh. I th o u g h t we had a l r e a d y made t h a t 24 b r i d g e , anyway. 25 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) A l l r i g h t . So t h a t I under- - 30 CONCNNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRADSCRIPTIOH 1 stand your answer, the period of time that you had the 2 lite r a tu r e outside of the blue binder of m aterial e n title d 3 " P y r o c l o r " was during the time you were m arketing manager? 4 A. We had l i t e r a t u r e about our p r o d u c t s t h r o u g h 5 out t h e p e r i o d when I was s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e and when I 6 was m a r k e tin g manager. 7 Q. And t h e s e p a r a t e s e t of documents t h a t were i n 8 e x iste n c e w h ile you were s a le s rep were m aintained where? 9 A. At t h a t p a r t i c u l a r time when I was a s a l e s 10 rep , our European h e a d q u a r te r o f f i c e was i n London, and t h e 11 main l i t e r a t u r e c e n t e r was a t t h a t time i n London. When we 12 moved t h e European h e a d q u a r t e r s from London t o B r u s s e l s , 13 then our c e n t r a l l i t e r a t u r e source would be m a i n t a i n e d i n 14 B r u s s e l s , not i n London. But a l l s a l e s o f f i c e s would have 15 a c c e s s and would have a more l i m i t e d s t o r a g e o f t e c h n i c a l 16 l i t e r a t u r e f o r p ro d u c t which they were s e l l i n g i n t h a t 17 p a r t i c u l a r r e g i o n , and i f t h e i r p a r t i c u l a r r e g i o n c o n t a i n e d 18 custom ers o f d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s , t h a t r e g i o n a l o f f i c e would 19 have c o p i e s o f t h e d i e l e c t r i c l i t e r a t u r e . 20 Q. Okay. Whileyou were s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e , 21 d id Monsanto have a m e d ica l department i n i t s European 22 o p e r a t i o n s ? 23 A. Y e s , we d i d . 24 Q. And where was i t l o c a t e d ? 25 A. In London. - 31 CONCAUNOK & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. W hile you were s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e , who was 2 the head of the medical department in London fo r Monsanto? 3 A . We had a m e d ic a l department which had a number 4 of f u n c t i o n s . One was t h a t p u r e ly of h a v in g a m e d ica l 5 o ffic e in a headquarters* building to look a fter s t r ic t ly 6 p erso n n e l m e d ica l a f f a i r s . We e q u a lly had a s s o c i a t e d w ith 7 t h a t departm ent an i n d i v i d u a l who was r e s p o n s i b l e f o r 8 product issu e s of a medical n ature, but th a t la t t e r fu n c 9 tio n operated as an extension of the headquarters product 10 s a f e t y groups i n th e U n ite d S t a t e s . 11 Q. D uring th e tim e you were s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e , 12 who was th e p erso n w i t h in Monsanto* s m e d ic a l departm ent i n 13 London r e s p o n s i b le f o r p ro d u c t i s s u e s o f a m e d ic a l n a t u r e ? 14 A. Doug H ardy, H - a - r - d - y . 15 Q. At th e tim e you were s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e , do 16 you know whether th e Monsanto h e a d q u a r te r s p ro d u ct s a f e t y 17 group i n th e U n it e d S t a t e s was run by a m e d ic a l d o c t o r ? 18 MR. FEATHERSTONE: S o r r y . May I hear th e 19 q u e s t io n a g a i n , p l e a s e ? 20 (Thereupon, th e r e p o r t e r read back th e q u e s t i o n .) 21 A. No, I d o n ' t . 22 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) W hile s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e , 23 do you know whether th e Monsanto h e a d q u a r te r s p ro d u ct 24 s a f e t y group i n th e U n it e d S t a t e s was run by a t o x i c o l o 25 g i s t ? ' - 32 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. No, I don' t . 2 Q. Do you know whether the p erso n i n charge of 3 the headquarters product sa fe ty group in the U .S ., while 4 you were s a l e s r e p , was an e p i d e m i o l o g i s t ? 5 A. No, I d o n 't. 6 Q. Do you know w h e th e r, w h ile you were s a l e s r e p , 7 the person in charge of the Monsanto headquarters product 8 s a fe ty group in the U n ited S ta te s had any t r a in in g whatso 9 ever in the m edical and t o x ic o lo g ic a l a sp e cts of 10 p o l y c h l o r i n a t e d b ip h e n y ls ? 11 A . No, I don' t . 12 Q. W hile you were s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e , d id you 13 ever hear th e term " b u s in e s s group" i n r e l a t i o n t o th e 14 m anu factu re and s a l e o f p o l y c h l o r i n a t e d b i p h e n y ls ? 15 A . Can you r e p e a t t h a t q u e s t i o n ? 16 MR. BRADLEY: Would you rea d i t ? 17 (Thereupon, th e r e p o r t e r read back t h e q u e s t i o n .) J 18 A . Y e s . 19 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) Was th e p ro d u ct s a f e t y group 20 a t M o n sa n to 's h e a d q u a r te r s i n th e U n ite d S t a t e s p a r t of the 21 b u s in e s s group w orking w ith Monsanto p r o d u c t s c o n t a i n i n g 22 PCBs? 23 A. No. 24 Q. W hile you were s a l e s r e p , what p e rso n s by 25 t i t l e or name were p a r t o f th e b u s in e s s group w orkin g w ith - 33 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Monsanto products th a t contained PCBs? 2 A. W h ilst I was a s a le s r e p r e s e n ta tiv e w ith 3 Monsanto in Europe, ray c o n t a c t in th e U n ite d S t a t e s i n th e 4 b u s in e s s group was Paul sB e n ig n u s . 5 Q. Did Mr. Benignus i n d i c a t e to you who e l s e , i f 6 anyone, was p a r t of th e b u s in e s s group r e l a t i n g t o Monsanto 7 products containing PCBs? 8 A. To th e e x t e n t t h a t Paul B enignus h i m s e lf re 9 ported to su p erviso ry management w ith in a broader b u sin ess 10 d i v i s i o n th a n d i e l e c t r i c c h l o r i n a t e d b i p h e n y ls , t h e r e were 11 p e o p le s e n io r to Mr. Benignus who had management r e s p o n s i 12 b i l i t y f o r a range of p r o d u c t s , in c l u d i n g th e c h l o r i n a t e d 13 b ip h e n y l d i e l e c t r a s . 14 S p e c i f i c a l l y , s in c e you asked me t o be 15 s p e c i f i c , we would be v i s i t e d o c c a s i o n a l l y in Europe by Mr. 16 George Buchanan, who was r e s p o n s i b l e f o r th e s p e c i a l t y 17 p r o d u c ts a r e a , or he may a t t h a t tim e have been c a l l e d th e 18 f u n c t io n f l u i d b u s in e s s w i t h in th e o r g a n ic d i v i s i o n , and 19 w i t h in whose group Mr. Benignus worked. 20 Q. Did Mr. B enignus i n d i c a t e t o you t h a t h i s 21 s u p e r v is o r was p a r t of th e b u s in e s s group f o r Monsanto 22 p ro d u c ts t h a t c o n ta in e d PCBs? 23 A . Y e s . 24 Q. Did Mr. Benignus i n d i c a t e t o you anyone e l s e 25 who was p a r t of th e b u s in e s s group f o r Monsanto p r o d u c ts - 34 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 containing PCBs? 2 A. In the United States? 3 Q. Yes. 4 A . D r. Ralph Munch, M - u - n - c - h , was r e s p o n s i b l e 5 f o r th e t e c h n o lo g y , th e a p p l i c a t i o n a l t e c h n o lo g y of th e PCB 6 flu id s at that point in tim e. 7 Q. And Mr. Benignus i n d i c a t e d t o you t h a t D r. 8 Munch was p a r t o f th e b u s in e s s group f o r Monsanto p ro d u c ts 9 th at contained PCBs? 10 A. Y e s . 11 Q. Who e l s e , i f anyone, d id Mr. -- 12 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Are you t a l k i n g about 13 d i e l e c t r i c s , D avid ? 14 MR. BRADLEY: I'm t a l k i n g abou t d i e l e c t r i c s . 15 MR. FEATHERSTONE: H e 's t a l k i n g about p ro d u c ts 16 c o n t a i n i n g PCBs. So, Mr. B r a d le y , a re you t a l k i n g about 17 d i e l e c t r i c s , or a r e you bro a d e n in g t h i s ? 18 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) So t h a t I u n d e rsta n d your 19 answer, your answer i s r e l a t e d t o d i e l e c t r i c p r o d u c ts 20 m an u factu red by Monsanto t h a t c o n ta in e d PCBs; i s t h a t 21 c o r r e c t ? 22 A. A s.w as r e l a t e d t o d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s . 23 Q. A l l r i g h t . Did Mr. Benignus i n d i c a t e to you 24 who e l s e was a p a r t o f th e b u s in e s s group w orking w i t h i n 25 Monsanto f o r d i e l e c t r i c p ro d u c ts c o n t a i n i n g PCBs? - 35 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. At the tim e th a t I was a s a le s r e p r e s e n t a t iv e 2 the o n ly two peop le I had c o n t a c t w ith and t h a t I was aware 3 of as b e in g members of th e d i e l e c t r i c s b u s in e s s group f o r 4 flu id s in clu d in g ch lo rin a te d biphenyls were Paul Benignus 5 h im se lf and Dr. Munch. 6 Q. Was t h e r e th e b u s in e s s group -- L e t me 7 rep hrase i t . Was t h e r e a European b u s in e s s group f o r 8 d i e l e c t r i c p r o d u c ts m a n u fa ctu re d by Monsanto t h a t c o n ta in e d 9 PCBs? 10 A. I t was not r e fe rr e d to as a d i e l e c t r i c b u s i 11 ness g ro u p . I mean, th e b u s in e s s i n Europe was managed by 12 -- At th e tim e t h a t I was s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e , e s s e n t i a l 13 l y , d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s i n Europe i n a com m ercial management 14 sense were managed by Jo h n C a m p b e ll. I was t h e s a le s m a n , 15 and C o l i n Coleman was th e t e c h n i c a l s e r v i c e r e p r e s e n t a t i v e . 16 Q. When you have -- Do you c o n s id e r p o l y c h l o r i 17 n a te d t e r p h e n y l s t o be p a r t o f th e group o f p o l y c h l o r i n a t e d 18 b ip h e n y ls ? 19 A. I ' d ask you t o r e p e a t t h a t q u e s t i o n , p l e a s e . 20 Q. Do you c o n s id e r p o l y c h l o r i n a t e d t e r p h e n y l s t o 21 be p a r t o f t h e group known a s p o l y c h l o r i n a t e d b i p h e n y ls ? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Did Monsanto m a n u fa ctu re p r o d u c ts s o ld 24 th ro u gh o u t Europe w h ile you were s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e t h a t 25 c o n t a in e d p o l y c h l o r i n a t e d t e r p h e n y l s ? - 36 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Monsanto m a n u fa ctu re d a number of p o l y c h l o r i 2 nated te rp h e n y ls , but they were p a rt of the p o ly c h lo rin a te d 3 p o ly p h e n o l f a m i l y . There i s no way t h a t you can -- A 4 p o l y c h l o r i n a t e d b ip h e n y l by d e f i n i t i o n cannot be a 5 p o ly c h lo r in a te d te r p h e n y l, and v ic e v e r s a . 6 Q. And you i n d i c a t e d t h a t t h e y ' r e a l l p a r t o f th e 7 polychlorinated polybiphenyl fam ily? 8 A. No. No. 9 Q. T h a t 1s why I a s k e d . 10 A. I s a i d t h a t , i f you b e g in t o l i n k benzene 11 r in g s t o g e t h e r , a t one p o in t or j u n c t u r e , one i s a p h e n yl 12 grou p, two i s a b ip h e n y l gro u p , t h r e e i s a t e r p h e n y l grou p, 13 fo u r i s a q u a tr a p h e n y l gro u p . So, som ething which c o n t a in s 14 th r e e r in g s can never be a b i p h e n y l. Som ething t h a t con 15 t a i n s two r in g s cannot be a t e r p h e n y l . That te r m in o lo g y 16 d i s c r e t e l y d e f i n e s th e d i f f e r e n c e between t h e number of 17 r in g s you have in th e p a r t i c u l a r m o le c u le . You can combine 18 and cover th e whole group by a d e s c r i p t o r which i s not 19 w id e ly used which i s a p o ly p h e n o l. 20 Q. A t th e tim e t h a t you were a s a l e s r e p , d id th e 21 Monsanto c o r p o r a te h e a d q u a r te r s i n th e U n it e d S t a t e s have a 22 m ed ical departm ent? 23 A. I'm s o r r y ? 24 Q. At th e tim e t h a t you were a s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a 23 t iv e , did the Monsanto corporate headquarters in the ufiited - 37 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 States have a medical department? 2 A. I d o n 't know. 3 Q. Does Monsanto s t i l l have a corporate head 4 quarters in Brussels? 5 A. Monsanto has i t s European headquarters of i t s 6 a g r i c u l t u r a l company and i t s chem ical group in B r u s s e l s . 7 Q. Do you know whether th e European h e a d q u a r t e r s 8 for Monsanto in B ru ssels s t i l l m aintains f i l e s of m aterial 9 i t had on PCBs? 10 A . I do not know whether th e company c o n s o l id a t e d 11 re c o rd s about PCBs i n Europe w i t h i n Europe or whether we 12 combined th o s e r e c o r d s i n our c o n s o l i d a t e d PCB r e c o r d s in 13 S t . L o u i s . 14 Q. And i f they were c o n s o l i d a t e d w i t h i n E u rop e, 15 they would be a t th e h e a d q u a r te r s i n B r u s s e l s ? 16 A . I d o n 't know. 17 Q. Did you r e c e i v e any a d d i t i o n a l t r a i n i n g i n 18 P y r o c lo r when you became m a r k e tin g manager f o r d i e l e c t r i c 19 f l u i d s ? 20 A . The tim e t h a t they changed my r e s p o n s i b i l i 21 t i e s from s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e to t h a t o f m a r k e tin g mana 22 g e r , I'm not c o n s c io u s t h a t I r e c e iv e d any s p e c i f i c a d d i 23 t i o n a l t r a i n i n g . 24 The re a so n f o r my appointm ent t o th e m a r k e tin g 25 management r o l e was e s s e n t i a l l y because of th e e x p e r ie n c e - 38 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 th a t I had gained in being the s a le s re p re s e n ta tiv e fo r 2 those m a t e r i a l s . And s o , i f e d u c a t io n i n c l u d e s t h a t p e r io d 3 of osm osis of le a r n in g on th e jo b , y e s , I r e c e iv e d more 4 training. 5 Q. Do you r e c a l l whether you r e c e iv e d any a d d i 6 tio n a l w ritten m aterial s p e c ific a lly directed towards 7 P y r o c lo r when you became m a r k e tin g manager f o r d i e l e c t r i c 8 fluids? 9 A. As we d e v e lo p e d and updated t e c h n i c a l l i t e r a 10 t u r e , I would r e c e i v e new m a t e r i a l s and new a d d i t i o n a l 11 m a t e r ia l to in c lu d e i n f u r t h e r a d d i t i o n s o f our t e c h n i c a l 12 l i t e r a t u r e . 13 A p ie c e of t e c h n i c a l l i t e r a t u r e i s n o t s t a t i c . 14 As your knowledge e v o l v e s , so does -- you update your 15 t e c h n i c a l l i t e r a t u r e . 16 Q. Would t h e t e c h n i c a l l i t e r a t u r e t h a t was 17 e v o lv in g in c lu d e i n s t r u c t i o n manuals f o r custom ers p u r c h a s 18 in g Monsanto p r o d u c ts c o n t a i n i n g PCBs? 19 A . Y e s , i t w ould. 20 Q. Did t h e EuropeanMonsanto i n s t r u c t i o n m anuals 21 d i f f e r from i n s t r u c t i o n m anuals d i s t r i b u t e d by Monsanto t o 22 i t s custom ers w i t h i n t h e U n it e d S t a t e s ? 23 MR. PEATHERSTONE: O b je c t t o th e form of th e 24 q u e s t i o n . I t * s vague and i n d e f i n i t e . 25 A . I ' 11 answer i t . - 39 CONCANNON & JAEGER COHPUTER AIDE D TRANSCRIPTION 1 Our Am erican l i t e r a t u r e was i n t h e Am erican 2 form of th e E n g l is h la n g u a g e . Our European l i t e r a l was i n 3 several languages, including B ritish English. 4 Q. (by Hr. B radley) Would the European i n s t r u c 5 t i o n manual sim p ly ta k e th e E n g lis h v e r s i o n s d e v e lo p e d by 6 Monsanto*s corporate headquarters in the U nited S ta te s and 7 t r a n s l a t e them in t o v a r io u s la n g u a g e s? 8 MR. FEATHERSTONE: O b je c t t o th e form of th e 9 question. Also vague. 10 A. Would you c a r e t o re p h ra s e th e q u e s t i o n ? 11 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) Y e a h . When -- Do you know 12 whether th e i n s t r u c t i o n m anuals t h a t were s e n t t o custom ers 13 of M o n sa n to 's European o p e r a t io n s r e c e i v e d i n s t r u c t i o n 14 b o o k le t s t h a t were i d e n t i c a l to t h e i n s t r u c t i o n b o o k le t s 15 d i s t r i b u t e d t o Monsanto* s custom ers i n t h e U n it e d S t a t e s , 16 w ith th e e x c e p t io n t h a t th ey were sim p ly w r i t t e n i n a n o th e r 17 la n g u a g e ? 18 A. By e x t e n s io n o f th e d e f i n i t i o n o f "o th e r 19 l a n g u a g e ," you need t o a p p r e c i a t e t h a t t e c h n o lo g y i s i t s e l f 20 a la n g u a g e . So t h a t , to t h e e x t e n t t h a t some of our 21 European custom ers were advanced enough t o use a d i f f e r e n t 22 system of measurement, th e m e t r ic s y ste m , t h e r e vas not 23 j u s t t r a n s l a t i o n o f la n g u a g e t o l a n g u a g e . C h a r t s , g r a p h s , 24 t a b l e s would need t o be changed from th e duodecim al system 25 o p e r a te d i n th e U n it e d S t a t e s t o th e more b r o a d ly used - 40 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 metric systems. 2 In terms of s ta n d a r d is a tio n , where m a te ria l 3 s ta n d a rd s i n Europe d i f f e r e d from th e ASTM s ta n d a rd s 4 exercised in the United S ta te s , then the relevant national 5 sta n d a rd s, such as BIN in Germany or the B r i t i s h Standards 6 I n s t i t u t e i n B r i t a i n , would need t o be c h e c k e d , and we 7 would need to change the m a te ria l content so th a t i t 8 r e la te d to th a t p a r tic u la r n a tio n a l emphasis. Even th en , mGi Monsanto was s t r a t e g i s i n g g l o b a l l y and a c t i n g l o c a l l y . 10 Q. So a s I u n d e rsta n d i t , the d i f f e r e n c e s were in 11 --* in v o lv e d c o n v e r s io n o f th e m easuring system in th e 12 U n ite d S t a t e s t o t h e m e t r ic s y ste m . That was one change in 13 the i n s t r u c t i o n b o o k l e t ; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ? 14 A. Y e s . 15 Q. And a n o th e r change came about i f t h e r e were 16 d i f f e r e n t c o d e - s e t t i n g s ta n d a r d s i n d i f f e r e n t n a t i o n s ? 17 A . T h is i s t r u e . 18 Q. Were t h e r e anyo th er ch an ges? 19 A. P r o b a b ly , y e s . 20 Q. ,,And what were th e y ? 21 A . I d o n 't r e c a l l minute by minute e v e r y t h in g 22 t h a t happened twenty y e a r s a g o . I'm s o r r y . 23 Q. Of co u rse I d o n 't e x p e c t you t o r e c a l l e v e r y 24 t h i n g i n d e t a i l , but I'm i n t e r e s t e d in what you do r e c a l l . 25 Who would know -- L et me r e p h ra se i t . Who, i f - 41 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 anyone, was i n ch a rge w i t h i n M o n sa n to 's European o p e r a t io n 2 for development of the in s tru c tio n s manuals th a t 3 accompanied Monsanto products c o n ta in in g PCBs th a t were 4 sold throughout Europe? 5 A. A t t h a t s t a g e th e p r o c e d u r e , as I -- Now, are 6 we t a l k i n g ab ou t -- ara l a s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e or am I a 7 marketing manager? 8 Q. S a les rep. S A . Okay. When I am s a l e s r e p , th en Jo h n 10 C a m p b e ll, as t h e m a r k e tin g m anager, would be r e s p o n s i b l e 11 f o r c l e a r i n g any new l i t e r a t u r e b e fo r e i t was p u b l i c and 12 is s u e d t o our customer b a s e . He would make s u re t h a t our 13 te c h n o lo g y as r e p r e s e n t e d by R ic h a r d B a x te r and C o l i n 14 Coleman had s ig n e d o f f , t h a t they a gre e d t h a t th e t e c h n i c a l 15 in f o r m a t io n c o n t a in e d t h e r e i n was a c c u r a t e and was 16 e x p r e s s e d c o r r e c t l y in u n i t s . There would be a s ig n o f f by 17 Doug Hardy in t e r m s .o f s a y in g t h a t he a g r e e d t h a t th e 18 r e p r e s e n t a t i o n f o r m a t e r i a l h a n d lin g i n s t r u c t i o n s were 19 e s s e n t i a l l y s u i t a b l e f o r u n d e rs ta n d in g i n E urope. 20 Q. And when you became m a r k e tin g m anager, d id you 21 have th e r o l e t h a t p r e v io u s ly Mr. Cam pbell had? 22 A. D r. C a m p b e ll. 23 Q. D r. C a m p b e ll. 24 A. Yes, I did. 25 Q. And when you undertook t h a t r e s p o n s i b i l i f c y as - 42 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPOTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 m arketing manager, did you review any xaedical or t o x i c o 2 lo g ic a l inform ation r e la tin g to PCBs? 3 A. P u r e ly f o r c l a r i f i c a t i o n a r e we g o in g t o be 4 jumping back and f o r t h a t t h i s p o in t between my m a r k e tin g 5 management r o l e or my s a l e s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e r o l e , or -- In 6 terms o f my t r y i n g t o o p e n ly answer your q u e s t i o n s , i t 7 r e a l l y would be h e l p f u l i f I know what p e r io d I'm answ ering 8 from , b ecause ray r o le ch an ged , as I s a i d , and I need t o 9 know what r o l e I'm in i f I'm g o in g t o be r e s p o n s iv e t o your 10 q u e s t i o n s . 11 Q. I a p o lo g i z e i f my q u e s t i o n w a s n 't c l e a r . I 12 th o u gh t my q u e s t i o n s t a r t e d by when you were m a r k e tin g 13 manager, but i f i t d i d n ' t , t h a t ' s what I in t e n d e d . 14 S o , w h ile you were m a r k e tin g m anager, d id you 15 review any m a t e r ia l r e l a t i n g t o t h e m e d ica l or 16 t o x i c o l o g i c a l i s s u e s i n v o l v i n g PCBs p r io r t o your work w ith 17 u p d a tin g i n s t r u c t i o n m anu als? 18 A . I was not q u a l i f i e d t o comment on th e h a n d lin g 19 and i n d u s t r i a l h y g ie n e m a t e r i a l s . P e r s o n a l l y , i t was my 20 r e s p o n s i b i l i t y to make su re t h a t l i t e r a t u r e t h a t we were 21 g o in g t o be se n d in g t o th e m a r k e tp la c e had r e c e i v e d review 22 in Europe from Doug Hardy as t o h i s u n d e r s ta n d in g t h a t t h i s 23 was an a p p r o p r ia t e r e p r e s e n t a t i o n o f the s a f e t y o f t h a t 24 p ro d u ct and th e h a n d lin g o f t h a t m a t e r i a l . And i f he 25 r e q u ir e d t o ask q u e s t i o n s o f h i s c o n t a c t s i n th e U n it e d - 43 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 S ta te s , then he would so do. 2 Q. Do you know whether Doug Hardy was r e l y i n g on 3 in fo r m a t io n f o r g i v e n t o him by Monsanto em ployees i n th e 4 U n ite d S t a t e s when he review ed t h e proposed c h a n g e s , i f 5 there were any, to in s tr u c tio n manuals? 6 A . Okay. Now, am I m a r k e tin g manager? 7 Q. Yes. 8 A . M a rk e tin g m anager. Okay. At t h a t tim e I know 8 t h a t Doug Hardy would make h i s judgm ents about m a t e r i a l in 10 Europe based on h i s view of what he was r e c e i v i n g from h i s 11 p e e r s i n th e U n ite d S t a t e s , and i n d i v i d u a l c o n t a c t s t h a t he 12 would make w i t h i n t h e Monsanto t e c h n i c a l community as 13 opposed t o t h e com m ercial community, and o u t s i d e o f th e 14 Monsanto t e c h n i c a l community in th e European t e c h n i c a l 15 community. 16 Q. When you r e f e r to " h is p e e r s , " do you mean h i s 17 p e e r s w i t h i n t h e Monsanto c o r p o r a te h e a d q u a r te r s i n th e 18 U n ite d S t a t e s ? 19 A. Y e s . Doug Hardy was s e e k in g t o f i n d ou t how 20 to -- what was th e U n it e d S t a t e s view o f h a n d lin g m a t e r i a l s 21 made by Monsanto. P r o t o c o l s u g g e s te d he s h o u ld e l i c i t such 22 in f o r m a t io n from h i s p e e r s w i t h i n M onsanto. 23 Q. Was Doug H a r d y 's r o l e d i f f e r e n t a t a l l d u rin g 24 the p e r io d o f tim e when you w e r e . s a l e s rep v e r s u s when you 25 were m a r k e tin g manager r e g a r d in g t h a t one i s s u e w e 'v e j u s t - 44 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COKPUTER AIDEO TRANSCRIP?ION 1 discussed? 2 A. Not co n sid e ra b ly d if f e r e n t . 3 MR. BRADLEY: I f i t ' s a c c e p t a b l e , t h i s would 4 be a good tim e f o r me t o be t a k i n g a b r e a k . Ten m in u te s . 5 (Thereupon, a s h o r t r e c e s s was ta k e n , a f t e r which 6 the reporter read back the la s t question.) 7 A. Not co n sid e ra b ly d i f f e r e n t . 8 Q. (by Mr. B radley) I take i t , d u rin g th e tim e 9 you were m arketing manager, th a t you subm itted changes in 10 i n s t r u c t i o n manuals t o Doug Hardy f o r h i s review f o r 11 p r o d u c ts c o n t a in in g PCBs? 12 A . Y e s . 13 Q. Did you send a l e t t e r to Mr. Hardy r e q u e s t in g 14 t h a t he review th o se changes i n th e i n s t r u c t i o n m anuals? 15 A. I t would have been normal p r a c t i c e t h a t , i f a 16 d r a f t change of any s o r t had been s u g g e s t e d , p ro p o se d , t h a t 17 I would send a copy t o H a r d y 's o f f i c e and s a y , "Need your 18 commentary on t h i s s u g g e s te d c h a n g e ." 19 Q. Okay. And would Doug Hardy then p r o v id e you 20 w ith w r i t t e n comments r e g a r d in g any s u g g e s te d c h a n g e s ? 21 A . I t would have been t h e a p p r o p r ia t e a c t i o n f o r 22 him to t a k e , y e s . 23 Q. Do you r e c a l l whether h e , whether Doug Hardy 24 ever p ro v id e d my w r i t t e n m a t e r i a l to you r e g a r d in g any of 25 th e proposed changes i n i n s t r u c t i o n manuals f o r p r o d u c ts - 45 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 co n tain in g PCBs? 2 A. S p e c ific a lly , no. 3 Q. What was your j o b t i t l e f o l l o w i n g your b e in g 4 marketing manager? 5 A. I became m arketing manager, food and f in e 6 chem icals. 7 Q. When d id you become m a r k e tin g manager f o r fo o d 3 and f in e chem icals? 9 A. 1970 s la s h '7 1 . 10 Q. When you became m a r k e tin g manager f o r fo o d and 11 f i n e c h e m ic a ls , d id you have any r e s p o n s i b i l i t y f o r 12 d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s c o n t a i n i n g PCBs? 13 A. I d id n o t . 14 Q. What f i n e c h e m ic a ls were you r e s p o n s i b l e f o r 15 when you became m a r k e tin g manager f o r fo o d and f i n e 16 c h e m ic a ls ? 17 A . The m ajor p ro d u ct a r e a f o r which I had 18 r e s p o n s i b i l i t y was f o r th e m a r k e tin g o f a s p i r i n . 19 Q. What was your nest job t i t l e ? 20 A. A f t e r th e f o o d - a n d - f i n e j o b ? 21 Q. Y e s . 22 A. My n e x t jo b t i t l e was i n t e r n a t i o n a l s a l e s 23 m anager, f l u i d s . 24 Q. When d id you become i n t e r n a t i o n a l s a l e s 25 m anager, f l u i d s ? CONCANNON & JAEGER COI-iPUTSR AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. 1974. 2 Q. As in t e r n a t i o n a l s a le s manager fo r f l u i d s , d id 3 you have any r e s p o n s i b ilit y fo r d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s c o n ta in 4 ing PCBs? 5 A. Yes, I did. 6 Q. What r e s p o n s i b i l i t i e s d id you have? 7 A. I had th e r e s p o n s i b i l i t y to manage th e s a le of 8 d i e l e c t r i c f lu id s c o n ta in in g PCBs in m arketplaces o u tsid e 9 of the United S ta te s , around the rest of the w orld, as part 10 of a p ro d u ct range of f u n c t i o n a l f l u i d s , which i n c lu d e d 11 a v i a t i o n f l u i d s , i n d u s t r i a l h e a t in g f l u i d s . So i t was one 12 produ ct l i n e component of a p ro d u ct l i n e f o r which I had a 13 r e s p o n s i b i l i t y f o r s a l e s o u t s i d e of North A m e r ic a . 14 Q. Okay. 15 A . And t h a t jo b was based i n A m e ric a . 16 Q. As i n t e r n a t i o n a l s a l e s manager f o r f l u i d s , d id 17 you have any r e s p o n s i b i l i t y f o r s e l l i n g t r a n s f o r m e r s or 18 c a p a c i t o r s c o n t a in in g PCBs? I mean -- S t r i k e th e q u e s t i o n . 19 As I n t e r n a t i o n a l s a l e s manager f o r f l u i d s , d id 20 you have r e s p o n s i b i l i t y f o r s e l l i n g any Monsanto p r o d u c ts 21 t h a t were in te n d e d f o r use in e l e c t r i c a l t r a n s fo r m e r s or 22 c a p a c i t o r s t o be used by th e e l e c t r i c a l in d u s t r y ? 23 A. Y e s , I d i d . 24 Q. What were you s e l l i n g in t h a t r e g a r d ? 25 A. I was s e l l i n g P y r o c l o r , 2 was s e l l i n g - 47 COMCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED.TRANSCRIPTION 1 In e r te e n , and I was s e l l i n g P y ra n o l. 2 Q. Was t h e I n e r t e e n t h a t you were s e l l i n g manu 3 f a c t u r e d by Monsanto? 4 A. Yes, i t was. 5 Q, Was i t m a n u fa ctu re d on -- in p l a n t s owned and 6 o p e ra te d by Monsanto? 7 A. Yes, i t was. 3 Q. Was t h e P y ra n o l you were s e l l i n g m a n u fa ctu re d 9 by Monsanto? 10 A . Y e s , i t w as. 11 Q. And was i t m a n u fa ctu re d i n p l a n t s owned and 12 o p e r a te d by Monsanto? 13 A. Y e s , i t w as. 14 Q. And were th o s e p l a n t s t h a t m a n u fa ctu re d 15 P y ra n o l w i t h in th e U n it e d S t a t e s ? 16 A . The p l a n t s t h a t m a n u fa ctu re d t h e I n e r t e e n and 17 P y ra n o l t h a t I s o l d were i n t h e U n it e d S t a t e s . I f I were 18 s e l l i n g P y r o c l o r , th e n i t would have been m a n u fa ctu re d i n 19 our B r i t i s h p l a n t . 20 Q. As i n t e r n a t i o n a l s a l e s manager f o r f l u i d s , d id 21 you have any r e s p o n s i b i l i t i e s r e g a r d in g i n s t r u c t i o n m anuals 22 t h a t accom panied p r o d u c t s m a n u fa ctu re d by Monsanto t h a t 23 c o n t a in e d PCBs and were d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s ? 24 A. My r e s p o n s i b i l i t y as s a l e s manager o f f l u i d s 25 would be t o in s u r e t h a t any customer or p e r s p e c t i v e - 48 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 customer i n my g e o g r a p h ic a l are a of r e s p o n s i b i l i t y had 2 received a copy of our in s t r u c t io n manuals. I t would not 3 have had -- My jo b a t t h a t s t a g e d id not c o n t a in a 4 resp o n sib ility for a ctu a lly producing the in stru ctio n 5 manuals. 6 Q. While you were in te r n a tio n a l s a le s manager for 7 f l u i d s , who w i t h i n Monsanto was r e s p o n s i b i l i t y f o r p rod u c 8 ing the in s tr u c tio n manuals fo r Monsanto d ie l e c t r ic f lu id s 9 containing PCBs? 10 A. Paul B e n ig n u s . 11 Q. Do you know how lo n g Mr. Benignus had t h a t 12 r e s p o n s i b i l i t y ? 13 A . At th e tim e t h a t I was i n t h e i n t e r n a t i o n a l 14 salesm an management jo b i n 1974, Mr. B enignus had c e r t a i n l y 15 been r e s p o n s i b l e f o r th e d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d l i n e f o r 16 m a t e r i a l s c o n t a i n i n g c h l o r i n a t e d b ip h e n y ls f o r a t l e a s t t e n 17 y e a r s . 18 Q. And d id th o s e r e s p o n s i b i l i t i e s t h a t Mr. 19 Benignus had in c lu d e d e te rm in in g what would be c o n t a in e d 20 w it h in t h e i n s t r u c t i o n manuals accom panying Monsanto 21 d i e l e c t r i c -- Monsanto p ro d u c ts c o n t a i n i n g d i e l e c t r i c 22 f l u i d s w ith PCBs? 23 MR. FEATHERSTONEi W e l l , I t h i n k you had i t 24 r i g h t th e f i r s t t im e , which was Monsanto d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s . 25 You s a i d Monsanto p r o d u c ts c o n t a in in g d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s . - 49 CONCANNON JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) L e t me r e - a s k t h e q u e s t i o n . 2 Did Mr. Benignus have r e s p o n s ib ility during th a t ten-year 3 p e rio d f o r d eterm in in g what would be in c lu d e d in th e 4 in s tr u c tio n manuals fo r Monsanto d ie l e c t r ic f lu id s 5 containing PCBs? \ 6 A. As product manager, he would have r e s p o n s i 7 b i l i t y f o r i s s u i n g i n s t r u c t i o n m a n u a ls. He would be gu id ed 8 as to content of c e r ta in chap ters of the in s t r u c t io n book 9 by in p u ts from o ther d i s c i p l i n e s w it h in Monsanto. 10 Q. And a f t e r he r e c e iv e d t h a t g u id a n c e , th e f i n a l 11 d e c i s i o n , th o u gh , was h i s ? 12 A. No. He c o u ld n o t -- I f f o r exam p le, our 13 te c h n o lo g y departm ent i n s i s t e d t h a t c e r t a i n d i e l e c t r i c 14 perform ance d ata were in c l u d e d , he c o u ld n o t p r e c lu d e them 15 and s a y , "No, w e 're not g o in g t o in c lu d e t h a t . " So he had 16 r e s p o n s i b i l i t y f o r making s u r e t h a t Monsanto had i n i t s 17 m a r k e tp la c e s t e c h n i c a l su p p o rt l i t e r a t u r e r e l a t i v e t o our 18 p r o d u c t s . He would have to o b t a in c le a r a n c e t h a t such 19 l i t e r a t u r e f o llo w e d c o r p o r a t e g u i d e l i n e s beyond j u s t h i s 20 p ro d u ct a u t h o r i t y r e l a t i v e to c e r t a i n a r e a s o f c o n t a c t . 21 Q. I want t o ta k e you back i n tirae to 1970. 22 Whatever your j o b t i t l e was d o e s n 't m a tte r to me. 23 A. Okay. 24 Q. In 1970 were t h e r e any European n a t io n s t h a t 25 had prop osed e l i m i n a t i o n o f PCBs? - 50 - CONCANNON JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTIOK 1 MR. FEATHERSTONE: O b je c t to t h e form of th e question. o A. Could you ask the question -- 4 Q. (by Mr. B rad ley) I w i l l r e - a s k i t . In 1970 5 had any European n a tio n s outlaw ed th e use of PCBs?' 6 A. Hot t o my know ledge. 7 Q. In 1970 had any European n a tio n proposed -- 8 L e t me re p h ra s e i t . In 1970 had t h e r e been proposed 9 l e g i s l a t i o n in any European n a tio n t h a t would r e s t r i c t or 10 e li m in a t e th e use of PCBs? 11 A . No. 12 Q. In 1971 was t h e r e any European n a t io n t h a t had 13 l e g i s l a t i o n r e s t r i c t i n g or e l i m i n a t i n g th e use of PCBs? 14 A. Not t o my know ledge. 15 Q. Was t h e r e ever a tim e when any European n a t io n 16 e n a cte d l e g i s l a t i o n r e s t r i c t i n g or e l i m i n a t i n g t h e use of 17 PCBs? 18 A . I am not aware of any p o in t when my jo b w i t h in 19 Monsanto c o n t a in e d r e s p o n s i b i l i t y f o r f l u i d s a s s o c i a t e d 20 w ith PCBs or throu gh my g e n e r a l knowledge of a n y t h in g t h a t 21 be hap p en ing w h i l s t my jo b was not r e l a t e d t o PCBs, of any 22 European c o u n try t h a t went a s f a r as e a r l y , in term s o f 23 r e g u l a t i n g PCBs, as th e U n ite d S t a t e s o f A m e ric a . 24 Q. D id n 1t Sweden ta k e any r e g u l a t o r y a c t i o n 25 r e l a t i n g t o PCBs d u rin g th e 1970s? - 51 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED 'TRANSCRIPTIOll 1 A. I c a n 't ta lk fo r the whole of the 1970s, 2 because I was not in v o lv e d w ith PCBs d u rin g th e t o t a l i t y of 3 the 1970s. 4 Q. When d id you ce a s e your in v o lv e m e n t w ith PCBs 5 during the period of the 1970s? 6 A. In 1977. 7 Q. By 1977 had Sweden ta k e n any a c t i o n to 8 r e s t r ic t or e lim in ate the use of PCBs? 9 A. Sweden may -- I do not s p e c i f i c a l l y know. I f 10 th e r e were a n y t h in g g o in g on i n Sweden a t t h a t p o in t i n 11 t im e , i t was p ro b a b ly g o in g t o be r e g u l a t i n g t h e use or 12 r e s t r i c t i n g t h e u s e , but I am not s p e c i f i c a l l y aware of 13 Swedish r e g u l a t i o n s c o n c e r n in g t h e use of PCBs. 14 Q. So t h a t I u n d e rsta n d your answer -- I'm not so 15 much i n t e r e s t e d i n what your s p e c i f i c knowledge i s o f 16 s p e c i f i c r e g u l a t i o n s i n Sweden r e g a r d in g t h e use of PCBs, 17 but I am i n t e r e s t e d i n knowing i f you know when Sweden 18 f i r s t e n a c te d r e g u l a t i o n s , i f i t ever d i d , r e s t r i c t i n g or 19 e li m i n a t i n g th e use of PCBs. 20 A. I am not aware of any r e g u l a t i o n s i s s u e d by 21 Swedish a u t h o r i t i e s r e f e r e n c e th e use of PCBs. 22 Q. And when I say " r e g u l a t i o n s , " I in c l u d e law s 23 in t h a t . I s t h a t your u n d e r s ta n d in g ? 24 A . Y e s . 25 Q. Okay. P r io r to 1977 d id Ja p a n e n a c t any laws 52 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION,. i or r e g u la t io n s r e s t r i c t i n g or e lim in a t in g th e use of PCBs? 2 A. For c l a r i f i c a t i o n may I ask whether we1re 3 ta lk in g about d ie le c tr ic s itu a tio n s or generic uses of 4 PCBs? 5 Q. Generic uses of PCBs. 6 A. I believe that Japan did issue regulations 7 concerning th e use of PCBs, e x clu d in g them from c e r t a in 8 applications. 9 Q. And when do you b e l i e v e t h a t Ja p a n to o k t h a t 10 a c t i o n ? 11 A . In th e s e v e n t i e s . 12 Q. In th e e a r l y , mid, or l a t e s e v e n t i e s ? I f you 13 know. 14 A. E a r ly to m id. 15 Q. Do you know whether th e r e s t r i c t i o n s imposed 16 by Ja p a n on PCBs in c lu d e d r e s t r i c t i o n s on PCBs i n 17 d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s ? . 18 A . I b e l i e v e i t d id n o t . 19 Q. Did G r e a t B r i t a i n p r i o r to 1977 e n a c t any laws 20 or r e g u l a t i o n s r e s t r i c t i n g or e l i m i n a t i n g th e use o f PCBs? 21 A . I am not aware o f r e g u l a t i o n s i n G r e a t B r i t a i n 22 r e s t r i c t i n g t h e use of PCBs g e n e r i c a l l y or l i m i t i n g th e use 23 of PCBs g e n e r i c a l l y . A t t h a t p o in t in tim e Monsanto was 24 only in v o lv e d i n d i e l e c t r i c u se s o f PCBs. 25 There were r e g u l a t i o n s p a ss e d i n a number o f - 53 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION -L c o u n t r i e s a f t e r th e f a c t o f M onsanto1s w ith d ra w a l from 2 certain n o n electrical a p p lica tio n s. Again, I'm not sure of 3 d e t a ils because they were ir r e le v a n t to us, because, in the 4 1970s, e s s e n t i a l l y , Monsanto a t a p o in t in tim e was o n ly 5 involved with d ie le c tr ic uses of PCBs. 6 Q. When d id you c e a s e b e in g i n t e r n a t i o n a l s a l e s 7 manager fo r f l u i d s ? 8 A. Late 1974, early 1975. 9 Q. So you had t h a t jo b fo r about a y e a r? 10 A . About a y e a r . 11 Q. What was your n e x tjo b t i t l e ? 12 A . I was manager of d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s . 13 Q. Did t h a t jo b b e g in i n 1975? 14 A . I t was e i t h e r November or December o f 1974, or 15 Ja n u a r y of 1975; i t was abou t th e tu r n o f th e y e a r . 16 Q. Did you r e c e i v e any a d d i t i o n a l t r a i n i n g r e 17 g a r d in g PCBs when you became manager o f d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s ? 18 A. Y e s , I d i d . 19 Q. What t r a i n i n g d id you r e c e i v e ? 20 A . In fo r m a l t r a i n i n g . 21 Q. Prom whom? 22 A . Prom P aul B eni gnus ? from my immediate s u p e r 23 v i s o r , D r. P a to n , P - a - t - o - n ; from th e r e s e a r c h d ep artm ents 24 w i t h in M onsanto; and from p e o p le who were in v o lv e d w ith 25 M o n sa n to 's p o s i t i o n s r e l a t i v e to th e use and a p p l i c a t i o n o f - 54 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 PCBs, such as Mr. Papageorge, P - a - p - a - g - e - o - r - g - e . 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. And a g a i n , t h a t l i s t i s a l i s t of s i g n i f i c a n t 4 p eo p le who t a l k e d t o me a t th e tim e t h a t I changed -- I 5 made t h a t t r a n s i t i o n . I t i s n o t e x h a u s t i v e . 6 Q. What -- I want you t o t e l l me a s much as you 7 can remember about th e c o n te n t o f your d i s c u s s i o n s w ith Mr. 8 Papageorge as p a r t of your in fo r m a l t r a i n i n g when you 9 became manager of d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s . 10 MR. FEATHERSTONE: T h a t 's t h e q u e s t i o n ? 11 MR. BRADLEY: Y e s . 12 THE WITNESS: Can I t a l k t o C h r is a moment? 13 MR. BRADLEY: Y e s . 14 (Thereupon, a s h o r t c o llo q u y was h a d , a f t e r which 15 th e r e p o r t e r propounded th e p r e v io u s q u e s t i o n .) 16 A . The in fo r m a l t r a i n i n g e s s e n t i a l l y was a d ay17 t o -d a y p r o c e s s ; t h e r e would be v e ry few days t h a t I would 18 not be t a l k i n g w ith B i l l P a p a g e o rg e , 19 The n a tu r e of th e d i e l e c t r i c s b u s in e s s i n th e 20 U n ite d S t a t e s and beyond t h e U n ite d S t a t e s was such a t t h a t 21 p o in t i n tim e t h a t we were r o u t i n e l y com m unicating w ith our 22 c u s to m e r s, w ith th e u s e r s o f e l e c t r i c e q u ip m e n t, w ith 23 r e g u l a t o r s , w ith u n i v e r s i t i e s , and as s u c h , very few days 24 would go by t h a t I would n o t have o c c a s io n t o d is c u s s 25 em erging s i t u a t i o n s w ith Mr. P a p a g e o r g e , and t o th e e x t e n t - 55 CONCANNON & JAEG R COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 th a t, in the course of those d iscu ssio n s I would le a rn 2 things th a t I had not been knowledgeable of p re v io u sly , i t 3 was p a r t of ray e d u c a t io n . 4 Q. (by Mr. B rad ley) So your in fo rm a l t r a i n i n g 5 with Mr. Papageorge i s what you learn ed p rim a rily from your 6 day-to-day co n tacts with him? 7 A. Yes, i t was. 8 Q. You in d ic a t e d t h a t , because of the n atu re of 9 the d ie le c t r ic flu id s during the period of time you were 10 manager of d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s , t h a t you would *-- Excuse me 11 -- t h a t Monsanto would r o u t i n e l y have com m unications w ith 12 c u s to m e r s ; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ? I s t h a t what you s a i d ? 13 MR. FEATHERSTONE: He s a id Nature of th e 14 d i e l e c t r i c s b u s i n e s s . 15 MR. BRADLEY: W hatever. 16 I s i t t r u e t h a t , because o f th e n a tu r e o f th e 17 d i e l e c t r i c b u s in e s s when you were manager of d i e l e c t r i c 18 f l u i d s , t h a t Monsanto would be r o u t i n e l y com m unicating w ith 19 cu sto m ers? 20 A. We werer o u t i n e l y com m unicatingw ith cu stom ers 21 th ro u gh o u t th e p e r io d t h a t I was manager of d i e l e c t r i c s . 22 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) D id th o s e cu stom ers i n c l u d e 23 G e n e ra l E l e c t r i c ? 24 A. Y e s . 25 Q. Did th e y in c lu d e W estin g h o u se? - 56 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. You a ls o in d ic a te d t h a t , because of the n atu re 3 of the d ie le c t r ic business w hile you were manager of the 4 d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s , th a t Monsanto would have communications 5 with users of d ie le c tr ic equipment; is th a t co rrect? 6 A. Monsanto had communications w ith users of 7 d i e l e c t r i c equipm ent. By v i r t u e of our membership w ith 8 c e r ta in in d u s t r ia l p a n e ls, and a t the request of our d ir e c t 9 c u s to m e r s, from tim e to tim e we would have com m unication 10 s e s s io n s w ith t h e i r c u s to m e r s. And th ro u g h p r o c e s s e r s and 11 r e p a i r e r s o f e l e c t r i c a l equipm ent, we would have c o n t a c t 12 w ith our customers* c u s to m e r s. Through p a r t i c i p a t i o n i n 13 EPA p a n e l s , we would have c o n t a c t w ith our cu sto m ers' 14 c u s to m e rs. 15 There were many ways d u r in g t h e p e r io d t h a t I 16 was manager of d i e l e c t r i c s t h a t Monsanto, m y s e l f , and more 17 b r o a d ly , o th e r p e o p le w i t h in M onsanto, were i n c o n t a c t and 18 com m unicating w ith not o n ly our d i r e c t c u s to m e r s , but t h e i r 19 c u s to m e r s, and o th e r p eo p le in v o lv e d i n PCB c o n s i d e r a t i o n s . 20 Q. What i n d u s t r i a l p a n e ls was Monsanto a member 21 of t h a t r e s u l t e d i n Monsanto com m unicating w ith u s e r s o f 22 d i e l e c t r i c a l equipm ent? 23 A . There were groups such as th e ANSI C107 24 com m ittee, th e E P R l, E l e c t r i c a l Power R e s e a rc h I n s t i t u t e , 25 N a t io n a l E l e c t r i c a l M a n u fa c tu re rs A s s o c i a t i o n , E d ison - 57 -- CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Institute. 2 Q. Is th a t Edison E le c tr ic a l In s t it u t e , EEI? 3 A. Yes. 4 There were vario u s conferences which were 5 s p e c i f i c a l l y summoned t o r e l a t e t o PCBs. There was an EPA6 sponsored convention th at related to these PCBs. 7 Q. Was t h a t i n C h ica g o i n 1975? 8 A. Y e s , i t w as. W idely a tte n d e d by a broad 9 representation of the e le c tr ic a l industry. 10 Q. What le a d s you to t h a t c o n c lu s io n , t h a t i t was 11 b r o a d ly r e p r e s e n te d by th e members o f th e e l e c t r i c a l 12 in d u s t r y ? 13 A. I was a speaker a t th e c o n fe r e n c e ? I know what 14 th e a tte n d a n c e a t t h e c o n fe r e n c e was. 15 Q. How do you know what th e a tte n d a n c e was? By 16 s p e a k in g w ith p e o p le who were a l s o i n a t t e n d a n c e ? 17 A . Y e s . 18 Q. And how e l s e do you know whether t h e r e were 19 members o f th e e l e c t r i c a l u t i l i t y in d u s t r y a t th e 1975 20 c o n fe r e n c e ? 21 A. B ecause t h a t c o n v e n tio n was convened by th e 22 EPA to keep p e o p le aware of how th e c o n v e n tio n was b e in g 23 p u b l i c i s e d and how i t was b e in g p o s i t i o n e d , and I know t h a t 24 th e EPA sought a s t r o n g a tte n d a n c e from th e u t i l i t y 25 in d u s t r y . - 58 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. Any o th e r way t h a t you know t h a t members o f 2 the e l e c t r i c a l u t i l i t y in d u s try were p re se n t a t t h a t 1975 3 conference? 4 A. I guess a t the tim e of the convention and 5 s h o r t l y t h e r e a f t e r we had some d i s c u s s i o n s r e g a r d in g who 6 had been th e r e , and sh o rt of review ing any sign -u p l i s t fo r 7 the co n v e n tio n , I mean, I was aware th a t th e r e had been a 8 fa ir ly broad representation of the u t i li t y in d u stry. 9 Q. Did you p erso n ally review the sign-up l i s t ? 10 A. No, I d id n o t . 11 Q. Who d id you speak w ith a t th e c o n fe r e n c e who 12 i n d i c a t e d t o you th e y were a member of th e e l e c t r i c a l 13 u t i l i t y in d u s t r y ? I f you r e c a l l . 14 A. I d o n 't -- I t a l k e d t o an enormous number o f 15 p e o p le a t t h a t c o n v e n t io n . 16 0 . W e ll, do you r e c a l l whether any of them 17 inform ed you t h a t they were a customer of G e n e r a l E l e c t r i c ? 18 A. Nobody a d v is e d me s p e c i f i c a l l y t h a t th ey were 19 a customer of G e n e r a l E l e c t r i c . Many of them t o l d me t h a t 20 they were members o f v a r io u s U n it e d S t a t e s u t i l i t y c o rp o ra 21 t i o n s and th e y bought e l e c t r i c a l equipment c o n t a i n i n g PCBs, 22 which was th e s u b j e c t of th e c o n fe r e n c e . 23 Q Were t h e r e w r i t t e n p r o c e e d in g s o f th e 24 c o n fe r e n c e f o l l o w i n g i t s c o m p le tio n ? 25 A. Y e s , th e r e were* - 59 CONGANNON JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRAMSCRIPTIOD 1 Q. Do you know whether th o s e were m a i l e d ' t o 2 e le c tric a l u t ilit y ind ustries that purchased d ie le c tr ic 3 f l u i d s c o n t a in in g PCBs t h a t were m a n u factu red by Monsanto? 4 A. I know t h a t we m a ile d c o p ie s o f my p a p e rs -- 5 my paper a t t h a t c o n fe r e n c e to a number o f u t i l i t y p e o p le 6 who s a i d t h a t e i t h e r th ey had been and had n o t managed t o 7 g e t a copy a t the conference or had heard o f the con feren ce 8 and req uested a copy of the p ap er. In terms o f s a y in g , 9 "Was t h e r e a Monsanto m a i l i n g o f th e p r o c e e d in g s o f t h a t 10 c o n fe r e n c e t o our cu sto m e rs' c u s t o m e r s ," n o , t h e r e was n o t . 11 I t was n o t our c o n fe r e n c e ? i t was an EPA c o n f e r e n c e . 12 Q. Do you know whether -- L e t me a sk i t t h i s way: 13 We know Monsanto d i d n ' t do th e mass m a i l i n g . Do you know 14 whether EPA d id a m a i l i n g o f th e p r o c e e d in g s o f t h a t 15 c o n fe r e n c e t o your cu sto m e rs' cu sto m ers? 15 A . I know t h a t they had th e p r o c e e d in g s a v a i l a b l e 17 t o th o s e who r e q u e s te d i t . 18 Q. You a l s o i n d i c a t e d t h a t you r e c e iv e d in fo r m a l I S t r a i n i n g when you became manager o f d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s from 20 d iffe r e n t research departments w ith in Monsanto. Which 21 r e s e a r c h d ep artm ents d id you r e c e i v e in fo r m a l t r a i n i n g from 22 when you became manager of d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s ? 23 A . I r e c e iv e d -- A g a in , I r o u t i n e l y communicated 24 w ith our d i e l e c t r i c t e c h n o lo g y grou p, headed by Ralph 25 Munch. I communicated w ith our a n a l y t i c a l s e r v i c e s d e p a r t - - 60 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION jn. ment, s p e c i f i c a l l y w ith Jim Muir a t t h a t t im e , and, as I 2 have said p re v io u s ly , I communicated ro u tin e ly with B i l l 3 P a p a g e o rg e , r e p r e s e n t in g t h e o u tre a c h from my p a r t i c u l a r 4 ro le in to the to x ic o lo g y and m edical group of Monsanto. 5 Q. So B i l l Papageorge, as I understand your l a s t 6 answer, was your c o n n e c tio n t o E'lonsanto's m e d ic a l and 7 to x ico lo g y departments w hile you were manager of d ie le c t r ic 8 fluids? 9 A. He was my major c o n t a c t w ith th o s e d e p a r t 10 m ents. 11 Q. Who was d i r e c t o r of M o n sa n to 's m e d ic a l d e p a r t 12 ment when you were manager of d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s ? 13 A. George Roush. 14 Q. Did you d is c u s s a n y t h in g w ith G eorge Roush 15 w h ile you were manager of d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s r e g a r d in g t h e 16 m ed ical or t o x i c o l o g i c a l a s p e c t s o f PCBs? 17 A . Prom tim e t o t im e , y e s . 18 Q. T e l l me what you remember about th o s e co n v e r 19 s a t i o n s . 20 MR. FEATHERSTONE: W ith D r. Roush? 21 MR. BRADLEY: Y e s . 22 A . I c a n ' t r e c a l l s p e c i f i c c o n v e r s a t i o n s . I f 23 o c c a s io n s demanded t h a t I reach out t o th e m e d ic a l group, 24 and i f f o r some rea so n Papageorge was t r a v e l i n g or 25 u n a v a i l a b l e , t h e r e were o c c a s io n s when I would c o n t a c t - 61 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Roush. There would be few o c c a s io n s when I would 2 in te n tio n a lly roach out rather than through Papageorge i f 3 Papageorge was a v a i l a b l e . 4 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) Do you r e c a l l any o c c a s io n 5 were you reached out to Dr. Roush and d is c u s s e d w ith him 6 in fo rm atio n regard in g the m edical or t o x ic o lo g ic a l a sp e cts 7 of PCBs? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Have you ever spoken w ith anyone from Nevada 10 Power Company? 11 A . To my r e c o l l e c t i o n , no. 12 Q. Have you ever spoken w ith any salesm en who 13 have s o ld t h e d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s m a n u fa ctu re d by Monsanto t o 14 Nevada Power Company? 15 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Any salesm an who h as s o ld 16 d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d m a n u fa ctu re d by Monsanto t o Nevada Power? 17 MR. BRADLEY: Y e s . 18 A . No. B ecause a t th e p o in t t h a t I became t h e 19 d i e l e c t r i c manager i n 1975, a t t h a t p a r t i c u l a r p o in t in 20 tim e I b e l i e v e we had a lr e a d y ce a se d s e l l i n g d i e l e c t r i c 21 f l u i d s t o anybody o th e r th an m a n u fa c tu r e r s o f e l e c t r i c a l 22 equipm ent. 23 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) Have you spoken w ith anyone 24 w it h in Monsanto who c la im s t h a t th ey have spoken w ith 25 anyone from Nevada Power Company? - 62 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. To my r e c o l l e c t i o n , no. 2 Q. Do you know whether PCBs e n te r th e body 3 through the skin? 4 A. We, as a m a tte r of c o u r s e , f o r many y e a r s i n 5 our i n d u s t r i a l h yg ie n e made recomm endations t o u s e r s o f 6 PCBs, s tr o n g ly recommended and advocated a v o id in g p rolonged 7 sk in co n ta ct to preclude any p o te n tia l entry of PCBs to the 8 system through the s k in . There i s no q u e s tio n t h a t PCBs 3 have s o lv e n c y a c t io n ? we p o in t e d t h a t o u t . And t o th e 10 e x te n t t h a t any s o lv e n t m a t e r ia l can p e n e t r a t e th e s k i n , 11 t h e r e was a p o t e n t i a l of th e PCBs t o e n t e r th e body throu gh 12 th e s k i n . 13 Q. Do you know whether PCBs e n t e r th e body 14 throu gh th e s k in ? 15 MR. FEATHERSTONE: O b je c t t o th e form o f th e 16 q u e s t i o n . 17 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) I 'm not i n t e r e s t e d i n what 18 you t o l d your c u s to m e r s. I'm i n t e r e s t e d i n whether you 19 know whether PCBs e n t e r th e body throu gh th e s k i n . 20 A. I d o n 't know t h a t they e n te r th e body throu gh 21 th e s k i n . 22 Q. Have you ever heard t h e term " f u r a n " ? 23 A. Y e s . 24 Q. Do you know what a f u r an i s ? 25 A . Y e s . - 63 CONCANNON & JAEGER ~~ COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1a. Q. What i s a f u r an? 2 A. I t i s a c y c la b le compound. I t ' s an o rg a n ic 3 cyclable m aterial. 4 Q. Have you ever heard th e term p o ly c h lo r in a t e d 3 d i be ns of ur an? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Do you know whether any of th e d i e l e c t r i c a l 8 f l u i d s m a n u fa ctu re d by Monsanto c o n t a in e d any p o l y c h l o r i 9 nated dibenaofurans? 10 A. The a l l e g e d p re s e n ce of c h l o r i n a t e d d ib e n z o 11 ru ra n s i n c h l o r i n a t e d b ip h e n y ls was a c la im t h a t came 12 f a i r l y l a t e i n t h e d i s c u s s i o n s , r e g u l a t i o n and c o n t r o l o f 13 PCBs. 14 At th e tim e t h a t Monsanto became aware o f 15 a l l e g a t i o n s s u r ro u n d in g c h l o r i n a t e d d i b e n z o f u r a n s , we a g a in 16 i n i t i a t e d t e s t work w i t h i n Monsanto t o be a b l e f o r us t o 17 v e r i f y w h e th e r, f i r s t , you have th e p r e s e n c e , and t h e t e s t 18 work, and we co n clu d e d t h a t p r io r to e x i t i n g t h e PCB 19 d i e l e c t r i c s b u s i n e s s , as I r e c a l l , co n firm e d o n ly th e 20 p o t e n t i a l of e x tr e m e ly e x t r a o r d in a r y low l e v e l s o f f u r a n s 21 in h ig h e r c h l o r i n a t e d b ip h e n y ls t h a t Monsanto had p ro d u c e d . 22 Q. What was your u n d e rs ta n d in g abou t t h e l e v e l s 23 of th e f u r a n s i n t h e d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s m a n u fa ctu re d by 24 Monsanto? 25 A . I th o u g h t I j u s t answered t h a t q u e s t i o n . - 64 - COMCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. You d id . You s a id t h e r e were extrem ely sm all 2 le v e ls . But what were the le v e ls th a t were found, th a t you 3 recall? 4 A. In A r o c lo r 1254, th e one r e p o r t t h a t I saw o f 5 work h a n d le d in M u ir*s d e p a rtm e n t, s u g g e s t e d t h a t th e y may 6 have id e n t ifie d presence in the p a r ts -p e r -b illio n le v e l. 7 Q. Have you ever heard th e term " c h lo r a e n e "? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. What i s i t ? 10 A . C h lo ra e n e i s ac o n d i t i o n which was r e a l l y 11 d e f in e d d u r in g t h e Second World War, v/hich was a c o n d i t i o n 12 which c a r r i e d symptoms o f s k i n e r u p t i o n s , a c e r t a i n amount 13 o f s k in d a r k e n in g , a c e r t a i n amount o f r a s h , p u s t u l e s , 14 which was a s s o c i a t e d a t t h a t p a r t i c u l a r p o in t i n tim e w ith 15 th e use of c h l o r i n a t e d m a t e r i a l s , in i n s u l a t i o n o f c a b le s 16 and c e r t a i n power c o n t r o l system s i n m i l i t a r y equ ip m en t. 17 Q. Do you knowwhether t h e r e were any r e p o r t e d 18 c a s e s o f c h lo ra e n e p r i o r to t h e Second World War? 19 A . A t th e tim e t h a t p eo p le were d e v e lo p in g d a ta 20 about th e p re se n ce of PCBs in th e environm ent and t h e 21 p o t e n t i a l im pact of such p r e s e n c e , review was c a r r i e d ou t 22 of th e p r e v io u s m e d ic a l l i t e r a t u r e c o n c e r n in g c h l o r a e n e , 23 and, as I r e c a l l , t h e r e were some e a r l i e r r e p o r t e d c la im s 24 of s im ila r symptoms in th e t h i r t i e s and f o r t i e s , but which 25 subsequent g e n e r a t io n o f m e d ica l in fo r m a t io n c e r t a i n l y d id - 65 CONCAHNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 not relate s p e c ific a lly to chlorinated biphenyls. 2 MR. BRADLEY: Read i t b a c k , p l e a s e . 3 (Thereupon, the reporter propounded the previous 4 question.) 5 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) When was th e tim e p e r io d 6 t h a t people were d e v e lo p in g data about th e p resen ce of PCBs 7 in the environment and the p o te n tia l impact of such 8 p re se n ce t h a t r e s u l t e d i n a review b e in g made of p r i o r 9 cases of chioracne? 10 A. C o n s id e r a t io n s o f th e p o t e n t i a l p re se n ce of 11 PCB in th e environm ent and t h e p o s s i b l e im pact o f such 12 p r e s e n c e , i f d e te rm in e d , of any le n g t h y d u r a t i o n , rea ch e d a 13 peak i n th e p e r io d s t a r t i n g from about 1 966 and c o n t in u e d 14 u n t i l th e p r e s e n t . 15 Q. So was t h e r e a review made of p r i o r c a s e s o f 16 c h lo r a c n e s h o r t l y a f t e r 1966 r e g a r d in g any a l l e g e d c o r r e l a 17 t i o n between c h lo r a c n e and PCBs? 18 A. I don' t r e c a l l when t h e review o f th e e a r l i e r IS cases was done. 20 Q. When d id you l e a r n t h a t t h e r e had been a 21 review o f th e e a r l i e r c a s e s ? 22 A . In t h e 1 9 7 4 -'7 5 p e r io d . 23 Q. Who t o l d you t h e r e had been a review o f th e 24 p r io r c a s e s o f c h lo r a c n e ? 25 MR. FEATHERSTOHE: You c a l l e d i t th e p r i o r - 66 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRAMSCRIPTION 1 c a s e s o f c h l o r a c n e . He c a l l e d i t th e l i t e r a t u r e . Are you 2 t a l k i n g about th e same t h i n g , Mr. B r a d le y ? 3 MR. BRADLEY: I have my q u e s t i o n out t h e r e . 4 I t ' s based upon the notes I have of h is te stim o n y . 5 MR. FEATHERSTONE: I o b j e c t to t h e form of th e 6 question. 7 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) Go a h e a d . 8 A . I t h i n k , g iv e n th e o b j e c t i o n o f c o u n s e l, we 9 better rephrase the question. 10 Q. D id you not u n d e rsta n d t h e q u e s t i o n ? 11 A. I'm now c o n fu s e d . 12 MR. BRADLEY: Would you rea d t h e l a s t q u e s t i o n 13 b a c k , p le a s e ? 14 (Thereupon, th e r e p o r t e r rea d back a p o r t i o n o f th e 15 t e s t im o n y .) 16 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) Who t o l d you t h a t a review 17 was made of p r e v io u s m e d ic a l l i t e r a t u r e r e g a r d in g c h l o r 18 acne? 19 A. I t was e i t h e r Paul B en ig n u s or B i l l 20 P a p a g e o rg e . 21 Q. D id -- W hichever one of them gave you t h e 22 in f o r m a t io n , d id th ey i n d i c a t e to you t h a t a p e e r -r e v ie w e d 23 stu d y had been con d u cted t h a t d is c o u n te d t h e c la im s made in 24 th e 1930s and '4 0 s r e g a r d in g c h lo r a c n e and i t s r e l a t i o n s h i p 25 to PCBs? - 67 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. I am g o in g t o have to ask you t o r e p e a t t h a t 2 question, because there are a lo t of elements in the 3 question. 4 (Thereupon, the reporter propounded the previous 3 question.) 6 A. N e ith e r one of them claim ed a peer rev iew . 7 The in fo rm atio n was th a t a l i t e r a t u r e review had been 8 c a r r ie d out which su ggested th a t th e symptoms which had 9 been p e r c e iv e d i n c e r t a i n p eo p le a l l e g e d to be s u f f e r i n g 10 from c h lo r a c n e e a r l i e r was p ro b a b ly r e l a t e d t o e x p o s u r e to 11 c h l o r i n a t e d n a p t h a le n e s or o th e r m a t e r i a l s o t h e r th an PCBs. 12 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) D id e i t h e r B i l l Papageorge 13 or Paul B en ig n u s r e f e r you t o an a r t i c l e i n t h e J o u r n a l o f 14 I n d u s t r i a l Hygiene and T o x i c o l o g y , d ated S e p te m b e r, 1937, 15 Volume 19 , Number 7 , by C e c i l K. D rin k e r and o t h e r s ? 16 A . I d o n 't r e c a l l . 17 Q. I'm g o in g t o show you P l a i n t i f f ' s E x h i b i t 979 18 and ask you t o review t h a t f o r me. 19 MR. FEATHERSTONE: What do you want him t o do? 20 MR. BRADLEY: I want him to review i t to 21 i n d i c a t e to me w hether h e ' s e ver seen i t b e f o r e and whether 22 h e ' s f a m i l i a r w ith the in f o r m a t io n i n i t . So he i s g o in g 23 to have t o rea d i t . 24 MR. FEATHERSTONE: You want him to rea d t h i s 25 e n t i r e a r t i c l e ? 68 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 MR. BRADLEY? U n le s s h e ' s a lr e a d y seen i t . 2 THE WITNESS: I d o n 't know whether I ' v e seen 3 t h is a r t i c l e or n ot. 4 Q. (by Mr. B radley) In your work a t Monsanto 5 have you ever reviewed any a r t i c l e s concerning PCBs th a t 6 were p ublished in the Jo u r n a l of In d u s tr ia l Hygiene and 7 Toxicology? 8 A. I don't r e c a ll. 9 Q. Did e ith e r Paul Benignus or B i l l Papageorge 10 i n d i c a t e to you t h a t i n 1937 a r e p o r t was w r i t t e n r e g a r d in g 11 th e e f f e c t s from exposure to v a p o rs o f c h l o r i n a t e d 12 d ip h e n y l? 13 A . E it h e r B i l l Papageorge or Paul B en ig n u s i n d i 14 c a t e d t h a t th e a p p r o p r ia t e p e o p le i n Monsanto were c o n t in u 15 o u s ly r e v ie w in g known h y g ie n e e f f e c t s o f PCBs, as we d id 16 w ith a l l our p r o d u c t s . 17 I t was not p a r t of my j o b . I t was n o t r e 18 q u ir e d o f me or a p p r o p r ia t e f o r me t o a tte m p t t o encompass 19 th e jo b o f a l l e x p e r t f u n c t i o n s w i t h i n Monsanto t h a t h e lp e d 20 us t o good d e c i s i o n making around t h e c o m m e r c i a lis a t io n o f 21 th e p r o d u c ts t h a t we s o l d . 22 ICR. BRADLEY: I move t o s t r i k e th e answer as 23 n o n r e s p o n s iv e . 24 My q u e s t i o n was w hether B i l l Papageorge or 25 Paul B en ign us i n d i c a t e d t o you t h a t i n 1937 a stud y was - 69 - --------------------------------- ;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CONCANNON JAEGER ____________ COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION____________ 1 done regard in g the e f f e c t s of in h a la tio n of vapors from 2 chlorinated diphenyl. 3 A. 4 Q. 5 diphenyl"? I don' t r e c a ll. Have you heard the term, "c h lo r in a te d 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. I s t h a t th e same as c h l o r in a t e d b ip h e n y l? 8 A. Yes. Chlorinated diphenyl is the terminology 9 used i n E u ro p e , or c h l o r i n a t e d b i p h e n y l, or th e o th e r way 10 around. I mean, t h e r e i s a d i s t i n c t i o n a c r o s s t h e A t l a n t i c 11 between th e use of th e term s b ip h e n y l and d i p h e n y l . 12 Q. And a r e both of them r e f e r r e d t o a l s o a s PCBs? 13 A . Today, y e s . 14 Q. Do you know whether i n 1937 anyone used t h e 15 term PCBs? 16 A . I have never seen th e use of th e term PCB a t 17 t h a t p o in t i n h i s t o r y . 18 Q. When d id you know PCB began t o be used a s a 19 term? 20 A. P ro b a b ly i n t h e l a t e s i x t i e s . 21 Q. And when i t began b e in g used a s a term i n t h e 22 l a t e s i x t i e s , i t r e f e r r e d i n p a r t , d id i t n o t , to what had 23 been r e f e r r e d t o a s c h l o r i n a t e d d ip h e n y l? 24 A. That was p ro b a b ly not th e c a s e u n t i l th e e a r l y 25 s e v e n t i e s . 70 - CQNCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. Did B i l l Papageorge or Paul Benignus ever t e l l 2 you t h a t in 1937 th e e f f e c t s of i n g e s t i o n of c h l o r in a t e d 3 diphenyls were stud ied? 4 MR. PEATHERSTONE: O b je c t t o th e fo rm . 5 A. I don't r e c a ll. 6 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Are you f a m ilia r w ith the 7 term "halowax"? 8 A. I know th e term h alo w ax. 9 Q. What was halowax in 1937? I f you know. 10 MR. PEATHERSTONE: I f you know. 11 A. Y e a h . I know th e term halow ax was used i n 12 r e l a t i o n s h i p t o some c h l o r i n a t e d waxy typ e of p r o d u c t s , 13 beyond t h a t I cannot be more s p e c i f i c . 14 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) Do you know whether halow ax 15 was com prised i n p a r t o f c h l o r i n a t e d d ip h e n y l? 16 A . No, I d o n ' t . 17 Q. Do you know whether i t was com p rised i n p a r t 18 of c h l o r i n a t e d n a p h th a le n e ? 19 A. My r e c o l l e c t i o n i s t h a t I a s s o c i a t e halow ax 20 r e l a t i v e t o c h l o r i n a t e d p a r a f f i n s and c h l o r i n a t e d 21 na ph t h a l e ne s . 22 Q. Do you know whether Monsanto u ndertook any 23 s t u d i e s between 1930 and t h e c o m p le tio n o f your work w ith 24 PCB p r o d u c ts a t Monsanto r e g a r d in g th e h e a l t h e f f e c t s o f a 25 c o m b in a tio n o f c h l o r i n a t e d n a p h th a le n e and c h l o r i n a t e d - 71 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRAM SCRIPT IOil 1 diphenyl? 2 A. I have no d e t a i l e d knowledge o f such work. 3 Q. Did B i l l Papageorge ever d iscu ss w ith you any 4 stud ies th a t had looked a t the e ffe c ts of exposure to a 5 combination of ch lo rin a te d naphthalene and c h lo rin a te d 6 diphenyl? 7 A . I do not r e c a l l c o n v e r s a t io n s r e l a t i v e to t h a t 8 sp e cific procedure. 9 Q. Do you r e c a l l s p e c i f i c c o n v e r s a t io n s r e l a t i v e 10 to t h a t t o p i c w ith any Monsanto em ployee? 11 A . No. 12 Q. D id B i l l P apageorge i n d i c a t e t o you t h a t 13 Monsanto knew as e a r l y as 1937 t h a t e i g h t or t e n G e n e r a l 14 E l e c t r i c em ployees exposed t o a c o m b in a tio n o f c h l o r i n a t e d 15 n a p h th a le n e and c h l o r i n a t e d d ip h e n y l as p a r t o f a halow ax 16 m ix tu re were v e ry s e v e r e l y a f f l i c t e d , h o r r i b l e s p e c im e n s , 17 as f a r as t h e i r s k in c o n d i t i o n was co n ce rn e d ? 18 MR. FEATHERSTONE: O b je c t t o th e fo rm . 19 A. As I have a lr e a d y s t a t e d , I d id n o t d i s c u s s in 20 d e t a i l w ith e i t h e r B en ign us or w ith P apageorge i n any 21 e x t e n s i v e d e t a i l work t h a t was r e l a t i v e to th e e a r l y 22 t h i r t i e s and f o r t i e s . 23 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) D id anyone ever t e l l you 24 t h a t , i f t h e r e were a s u f f i c i e n t c o n c e n t r a t io n o f PCBs on 25 th e s k in t o cause a s k in c o n d i t i o n or r a s h , s y s t e m ic - 72 CONCANNON JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED.TRANSCRIPTION 1 p o is o n in g may occur in some p e o p le who a re h y p e r s e n s i t i v e 2 to PC3 s? 3 A. Y e s . And t h a t would form th e b a s i s f o r th e 4 good i n d u s t r i a l hygiene p r a c t ic e which Monsanto communi 5 c a te d , which was t h a t , i f people were working w ith PCBs and 6 were seen to have any rash or a l l e r g i c c o n d itio n , th a t they 7 s h o u ld be withdraw n from work i n a PCB e n v iro n m e n t. 8 MR. BRADLEY: I move to s t r i k e th e answer 9 fo llo w in g th e word " Y e s ," as n on responsive and s e l f 10 s e r v i n g . 11 D id Monsanto ever g e n e r a te documents in f o r m in g 12 r e a d e r s t h a t e x p o su re to PCBs may cause s y s t e m ic p o i s o n i n g ? 13 MR. FEATHERSTONE: O b je c t t o th e form of th e 14 q u e s t i o n . 15 A . I d o n 't r e c a l l e x a c t l y what th e c a u t io n a r y 16 s ta te m e n ts o f i n d u s t r i a l h y g ie n e were i n th e b o o k l e t , th e 17 i n s t r u c t i o n m anu al. I f you have one and want t o show i t t o 18 me, then I c o u ld comment t o i t . 19 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) With your degree i n s c i e n c e 20 and w ith your e x t e n s i v e work h i s t o r y a t M onsanto, a re you 21 f a m i l i a r w ith th e p h ra se " s y s t e m ic p o i s o n i n g " ? 22 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Can I have th e q u e s t i o n 23 a g a i n , p l e a s e ? 24 (Thereupon, th e r e p o r t e r propounded t h e p r e v io u s two 25 q u e s t i o n s .) - 73 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 MR. BRADLEY: Go ahead and answ er. 2 THE WITNESS: I was w a i t i n g . D id my c o u n se l 3 want -- Other th a n l i s t e n t o th o s e q u e s t i o n s , do you want 4 to g i v e me any a d v i c e , or -- 5 MR. FEATHERSTONE: I ' v e a l r e a d y o b j e c t e d t o 6 th e form o f t h e q u e s t i o n . S o , I f you can answer i t , go 7 ahead. I f you c a n ' t , t e l l him t h a t . 8 A. I can' t answer i t . 9 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Have you ever heard the term 10 " s y s t e m ic p o i s o n i n g " ? 11 A. Y e s . 12 Q. When y o u 'v e h e a rd t h a t term , what h as i t meant 13 to you? 14 A. S y s te m ic p o is o n in g i s a s i t u a t i o n where an 15 exposure a t a p a r t of th e body does not n e c e s s a r i l y c r e a t e IS a symptom a t t h a t p a r t o f th e body, but may a f f e c t or have 17 an im pact on a c e n t r a l system so t h a t symptoms e ls e w h e r e i n 18 th e body may th e n d i s p l a y f u r t h e r a d d i t i o n a l symptoms. 19 Q. What a r e th e c e n t r a l system s i n t h e body? 20 A. The h e a r t -- Can I answer t h a t q u e s t i o n w i t h 21 out i t b e in g -- as a g e n e r a l i s e d t h i n g ? I'm not s a y in g 22 t h a t I'm a s s o c i a t i n g i n t h i s answer i n any way any of t h e s e 23 t h i n g s t h a t m ig h t co n ce rn th e c e n t r a l system where t h e r e i s 24 PCB a c t i v i t y . 25 Q. Y e s . - 74 CONCNNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. The h e a rt i s a c e n tr a l system , the lun gs are a n cen tral system, the liv e r is a cen tral system, the kidneys 3 are a central system. 4 Q. Do you know whether any c e n t r a l system s have 5 been shown to be p o iso n ed by exposure to PCBs? 6 A . An e x p o su re t o PCBs has been shown t o 7 p o t e n t i a l l y le a d to a b u ild u p o f PCBs in ad ip o se t i s s u e . 3 Whether t h a t , and when t h a t would p ro ce ed t o a p o in t t h a t 9 c o u ld be d e f in e d as p o i s o n i n g , t h a t g e t s us i n t o a n o th e r 10 d e f i n i t i o n and d i s c u s s i o n . 11 Q. Other th an t h e b u ild u p o f PCBs i n a d ip o s e 12 t i s s u e , a re you aware o f any o th e r c e n t r a l system s t h a t a re 13 a l l e g e d t o have been i n j u r e d by ex p o su re to PCBs? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Has anyone e v e r i n d i c a t e d t o you t h a t l i v e r 16 damage may r e s u l t from ex p o su re t o PCBs? 17 A . The l i v e r i s an orga n which c o n t a in s s u b s t a n 18 t i a l a d ip o se t i s s u e , and, t h e r e f o r e , b u ild u p o f PCBs i n t h e 19 l i v e r a re a h a s been a s s o c i a t e d w ith PCBS. To th e e x t e n t 20 t h a t a l i v e r surrounded by a d ip o s e t i s s u e c o n t a i n i n g PCBs 21 may have a change i n f u n c t i o n , and t h a t th e change i n 22 f u n c t i o n c o u ld be c o n s id e r e d a s damage, t h e n , y e s , t h e r e i s 23 damage. 24 Q. Did anyone ever t e l l you th a t before March 25 1 8 th , 1970, Monsanto a d m itte d t h a t a l l custom ers u s in g - 75 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s co n ta in in g PCBs had not been o f f i c i a l l y 2 n o t i f i e d about known e f f e c t s , nor d id Monsanto l a b e l s c a r r y 3 in f o r m a t io n abou t known e f f e c t s ? 4 MR. FEATHERSTONE: O b je c t t o th e fo rm . 5 A. R e la tiv e to what Monsanto is sayin g about the 6 usage of PCBs, I have to ask you to divide th at question 7 t h a t you j u s t asked me, t a k i n g i n t o a c c o u n t and a s k in g me 8 i t i n term s o f , a re you a s k in g me abou t knowledge a t th e 9 time I was in the s a le s r e p r e s e n ta tiv e jo b , or a t the tim e 10 t h a t I was i n t h e European m a r k e tin g management j o b , are 11 you a s k in g -- 12 MR. FEATHERSTONE: I t h i n k t h e q u e s t i o n i s 13 narrower th a n t h a t . I t h i n k t h e q u e s t i o n i s whether any 14 body has e ver a d m itte d to y o u , w hatever th e q u e s t i o n , and 15 then goes on t o s t a t e . Why d o n 't you ask t o have t h e q u e s 16 t i o n r e p e a t e d . 17 (Thereupon, th e r e p o r t e r propounded t h e p r e v io u s IS question.) 19 A . No. 20 MR. BRADLEY: O f f th e r e c o r d f o r j u s t a 21 moment. 22 (Thereupon, a lu n c h e o n r e c e s s was t a k e n .) 23 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) D u rin g th e p e r io d o f tim e in O th e 1960s when you were w orking w ith d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s 2DI-, r* c o n t a i n i n g PCB s, d id you r e l a y any i n f o r m a t i o n t o any - 76 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TUAHSCRIPTION - i e le c t r ic a l u t i l i t y industry group regarding the e ffe c t s of 2 exposure to PCBs? 3 A . At th e tim e t h a t I was in v o lv e d w ith PCB 4 d i e l eii c t r i c s i n t h e s i x t i e s , t h e r e would be o c c a s io n s when I 5 would t a lk to u t i l i t i e s th a t used the e l e c t r i c a l equipment 6 about the handling and maintenance of the equipment. I can 7 r e c o l l e c t a few o c c a s io n s when t h a t s o r t of com m unication 8 occurred during th at period. 9 Q. During the 1960s did you t a lk w ith any i10 e l e c t r i c u t i l i t y companies w i t h i n t h e U n it e d s t a t e s r e g a r d 11 in g th e e f f e c t s o f PCBs? 12 A . No, I d id n o t . 13 Q. D u ring th e 1960s were you aware o f any 14 com m unications Monsanto Company made to e l e c t r i c a l u t i l i t y 15 companies w i t h i n t h e U n it e d S t a t e s r e g a r d in g t h e e f f e c t s o f 16 e xp osu re t o PCBs? 17 A . Only to th e e x t e n t t h a t such com m u nications 18 were t r a n s l a t e d i n t o i n s t r u c t i o n m anuals t h a t would be 19 s u p p lie d t o European u s e r s o f our m a t e r i a l s . 20 Q. What work d id you do when you were no lo n g e r 21 manager of d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s ? What was your n e x t jo b 22 t i t l e ? 23 A. Are we now in t h e l a t e s e v e n t i e s p e r io d ? 24 Q. T h a t 's my u n d e r s t a n d in g . 25 A. Im m e d ia te ly a f t e r I was manager of - 77 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 d i e l e c t r i c s , I was manager of h eat t r a n s f e r f l u i d s . 2 Q. Over what p eriod of tim e were you the manager 3 of heat tran sfer flu id s ? 4 A. That was about a tw o -to -th r e e -y e a r p e rio d . 5 Q. Beginning when, roughly? 6 A. '76, *77. 7 Q. Okay. D u rin g your work a s manager ox h e a t 8 tr a n s fe r f l u i d s , did you have any involvement w ith PCBs? 9 A. Yes, I did. 10 Q. And what was t h a t in v o lv e m e n t? 11 A . To th e e s t e n t t h a t t h e r e were r e s i d u a l 12 co rre sp o n d e n ce q u e s t i o n s , i s s u e s a f t e r we had s to p p e d 13 m a n u fa c tu r in g and d i s t r i b u t i n g and s e l l i n g P C B - c o n t a in in g 14 d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s , I was c a l l e d upon o c c a s i o n a l l y t o h a n d le 15 q u e s t i o n s o u t s id e of Monsanto which p e r t a in e d t o t h e tim e iS t h a t we had been i n t h a t b u s i n e s s . 17 Q. Were th o s e q u e s t i o n s posed from e l e c t r i c a l 18 u t i l i t y com panies? 19 A. I b e l i e v e I may have had a l i m i t e d number of 20 i s o l a t e d q u e s t i o n s from u t i l i t y companies d u r in g t h a t 21 p e r io d o f t im e . 22 Q. I ta k e i t , th o u g h , t h a t th e h e a t t r a n s f e r 23 f l u i d s t h a t you were managing d id not c o n t a in PCBs? 24 A. They d id n o t . 25 o . What was your n e x tjo b t i t l e ? - 78 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Manager of raw m a t e r ia l p u r c h a s e s . 2 Q. When d id you b e g in t h a t jo b and when d id i t ~s end? 4 A. I t began in th e p erio d of e ith e r 1972 or '8 0 , 5 and i t would have ended in 1982. 6 Q. What was your next jo b t i t l e ? 7 A. I became commercial d ir e c to r fo r Monsanto 8 Chem ical Company in B r a z i l . 9 Q. When d id you b e g in and end t h a t j o b ? 10 A. End o f March of 1982, and I f i n i s h e d i t in 11 September of 1988. 12 Q. What was your n e s t jo b t i t l e ? 13 A. I th e n became b u s in e s s d i r e c t o r f o r p l a s t i 14 c i s e r s and s p e c i a l t y r e s i n s . 15 Q. When d id t h a t jo b b e g in ? 16 A . That jo b began i n September of 1988. 17 Q. When d id i t end? 18 A. U n t i l sometime i n 1989. 19 Q. What was your n e s t j o b t i t l e ? 20 A. B u s in e s s d i r e c t o r f o r polymer m o d i f i e r s i n t h e 21 s p e c i a l t i e s d i v i s i o n . 22 Q. D id t h a t b e g in i n 1989? 23 A. Y e s . 24 Q. And when d id i t end? 25 A. That jo b ended i n 1991. - 75 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. What was your n e s t j o b t i t l e ? 2 A. B u s in e s s d ir e c t o r / S a f l e s A m e r ic a s . S - a - f - 3 1 - e - x , Americas/ v/ith an S on th e end. 4 Q. What i s S a f l e s A m e ric a s? 5 Q. S a fle s i s a p la s t ic sheet which i s used to 6 laminate glass in such ap p licatio n s as safety in automotive 7 w indshields. Every w indshield in the western world con 8 tains a p la s tic laminate to protect passengers. It is a ll 9 p l a s t i c , and Monsanto i s the major world producer of th a t 10 p l a s t i c s h e e t . 11 Q. Over what p e r io d o f tim e were you d i r e c t o r of 12 S a f l e s A m e r ic a s ? 13 A . Prom 1991 u n t i l th e p r e s e n t t im e . A m ericas 14 im p l ie s t h a t I have r e s p o n s i b i l i t y fo r t h a t p a r t i c u l a r 15 b u s in e s s i n n o r th and South A m e ric a . 16 Q. W e r e y o u -- L et me ask i t t h i s way: Do you 17 know whether Monsanto and i t s custom ers have e n t e r e d i n t o 18 i n d e m n i f i c a t i o n agreem ents r e g a r d in g t h e customer s a l e o f 19 PCBS? i 20 A. In th e e a r l y 1970s, b e f o r e I became r e s p o n s i 21 b le f o r th e d i e l e c t r i c b u s in e s s i n t h e A m e r i c a s -- North 22 A m e rica , Monsanto had e n t e r e d i n t o agreem en ts w ith our 23 cu sto m ers who produced d i e l e c t r i c equipm ents i n which t h e y , 24 to a c e r t a i n e x t e n t , in d e m n ifie d Monsanto a g a i n s t th e con 25 sequences o f t h e i r m is h a n d lin g our PCBs. - 80 - COUCANNON Sc JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION T JL. Q. Do you know whether M o n sa n to 's c a s t o n e rs' 2 customers were informed of the in d em n ificatio n agreement 3 that you ju s t discussed? 4 A. No. 5I Q. Monsanto sold d ie le c t r ic f lu id beginning in 6 th e 1930s? i s t h a t -- L e t me r e p h ra s e th e q u e s t i o n . 7 Monsanto so ld d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d c o n ta in in g PCBs 8 beginning in the 1930s? is th a t co rre ct? 9 A. My r e c o l l e c t i o n o f th e h i s t o r i c a l p e r s p e c t i v e s 10 t h a t I was g iv e n when I became in v o l v e d w ith th e b u s in e s s 11 i s t h a t we e n te r e d t h a t b u s in e s s sometime i n t h e 1930s. 12 Q. Do you know whether Monsanto cu sto m ers were 13 ever inform ed r e g a r d in g t h e 1930s s t u d i e s t h a t a s s o c i a t e d 14 c h lo r a c n e w ith exp osu re t o c h l o r i n a t e d d ip h e n y l? 15 MR. FEATHERSTONE: O b je c t t o th e fo rm . 16 A . A t th e tim e t h a t I became in v o l v e d w ith 17 d i e l e c t r i c f l u i d s c o n t a i n i n g PCBs, I know t h a t our i n s t r u c 18 t i o n manuals which were s u p p lie d t o p ro d u c e rs o f e l e c t r i c a l 19 equipment c o n t a i n i n g such f l u i d s c e r t a i n l y c o n t a in e d 20 i n d u s t r i a l h y g ie n e recom m endations which r e c o g n iz e d t h a t 21 s k in c o n t a c t f o r a p r o lo n g e d p e r io d was u n d e s i r a b l e . 22 Beyond t h a t i t would be pure s p e c u l a t i o n on my p a r t . 23 Q. Do you know whether Monsanto ever in fo rm e d i t s 24 custom ers t h a t c h lo r a c n e was a c o n d i t i o n known i n th e 25 t h i r t i e s t o be caused by exposure to a m ix tu r e of - 81 - CONCAMMON JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRAHSCRIPTION c h l o r i n a t e d n a p h th a le n e and c h l o r i n a t e d d ip h e n y l? 2 A. i do not have s p e c i f i c knowledge about t h a t . 3 Q. Do you know whether Monsanto e ver in fo rm e d i t s 4 customers th at p athologic changes in animals exposed to a 5 com m ercially ch lo rin a te d diphenyl were reported as e a rly as 6 1944? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Do you know w hether Monsanto ever in fo rm e d i t s 9 custom ers t h a t th e t o x i c i t y of th e v a p o rs o f A r o c lo r 1242 10 and 1254 were documented a s e a r l y as 1956? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Do you know whether Monsanto e ver r e p o r t e d t o 13 i t s cu stom ers t h a t n i n e t y - n i n e p e r c e n t of a l l A m ericans 14 r e p o r t e d ly have over f i v e hundred p a r t s per b i l l i o n PCBs i n 15 t h e i r a d ip o s e t i s s u e ? 16 A . C ou ld you r e p e a t th e q u e s t i o n ? 17 Q. Do you know whether Monsanto ever in fo rm e d i t s 18 cu stom ers t h a t n i n e t y - n i n e p e r c e n t o f a l l Am ericans 19 r e p o r t e d ly have over f i v e hundred p a r t s per b i l l i o n PCBs in 20 t h e r e a d ip o s e t i s s u e ? 21 MR. PEATHERSTONE: P a r t s per b i l l i o n ? I s t h a t 22 what you s a i d ? 23 MR. BRADLEY; Y e s . 24 A . I don' t b e l i e v e Monsanto e ver c a r r i e d out any 25 work which would have cau sed us t o make such an e s t im a t e - 82 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 fo r us to communicate to our cu sto m e rs. There were 2 a lle g a t i o n s t h a t PCBs were broad ly presen t in th e adip ose 3 t is s u e of the p o p u la tio n of Am erica, b u t, in t h a t i t was 4 not f o r us t o f u e l n o n s c i e n t i f i c s p e c u l a t i o n by r e p o r t i n g 5 every a l l e g a t i o n t h a t was made a t t h a t t im e , we p ro b a b ly 6 did not report such. 7 Q. (by Mr. B rad ley) Are you f a m i l i a r w ith the 8 term b io m a g n ific a tio n ? S A. Yg S . 10 Q. What i s i t ? 11 A. B i o m a g n i f i c a t i o n i s t h e p r o c e s s by which a 12 m a t e r ia l can be a s s i m i l a t e d by a s p e c i e s i n t h e e c o l o g i c a l 13 c h a in , and a s t h a t p a r t i c u l a r s p e c i e s , as a n a t u r a l fo o d 14 fo r a h ig h e r s p e c i e s , i s consumed, then t h e p re s e n c e o f th e 15 m a t e r ia l t h a t may be i n t h e a d ip o s e t i s s u e of th e consumed 16 s p e c i e s i s m a g n if ie d i n t h e t i s s u e o f th e consuming 17 s p e c i e s . 18 Q. Are you f a m i l i a r w ith the p hrase fo o d c h a in ? 19 A. Y e s . 20 Q. Do PCBs b io m a g n ify in t h e human fo o d c h a in ? 21 A. Y e s , they c a n . 22 Q. Did Monsanto e ver inform i t s custom ers t h a t 23 PCBs can b io m a g n ify in t h e human fo o d c h a in ? 24 A. Y e s , we d id . 25 Q. And how d id you do t h a t ? - 83 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A As p a r t of the n o t i f i c a t i o n to our custom ers 2 of th e need t o a v o id c o n t a m in a t in g w a te r s w ith PCBs. We 3 used examples, as I r e c a ll, of b iom agn ification in the fis h 4 food chain. 5 Q. Where would t h a t in fo r m a tio n have been? 6 MR. FEATHERSTONE: I'm s o r r y . Where would 7 th at inform ation have been? 8 Q. (by Mr. B radley) I s t h a t in th e in s t r u c t io n 9 manual? 10 A. No. i 11 Q. Where was i t l o c a t e d ? 12 MR. FEATHERSTONE: You mean, in what form was 13 i t communicated? 14 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Thankyou . In what form was 15 i t communicated? 16 A . As Monsanto over a p e r io d o f tim e d e v e lo p e d 17 in f o r m a t io n about th e f a t e of PCBs i n th e en v iro n m e n t, we 18 kept our custom ers aware on a c o n t in u in g o n g o in g b a s i s o f 19 v a r io u s s t u d i e s t h a t were c a r r i e d ou t which r e l a t e d t o 20 d i s t r i b u t i o n o f PCBs i n t h e e n v iro n m e n t, and -- 21 MR. FEATHERSTONE: I t h i n k h e ' s a s k in g you 22 whether i t was done i n a w r i t t e n form or whether i t was 23 done i n m e e t in g s . How was t h a t in f o r m a t io n communicated? 24 Q. (by Mr. B r a d le y ) B r o c h u r e s , l e t t e r s , 25 i n s t r u c t i o n m anuals? - 84 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. L e tte rs and d iscu ssio n s. 2 Q. Did you ever author a l e t t e r to a customer -- 3 B e fo r e I --- L e t me s t o p t h a t q u e s t i o n f o r a moment and ask 4 to have the la s t question read back. 5 (Thereupon, the reporter propounded a portion of the 6 testim ony.) 7 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) L et rae s t a r t a new q u e s t i o n : S Mr. Wood, d id you a u th o r any l e t t e r s t o any Monsanto c u s t o 9 mers in form in g those customers th a t PCBs can biom agnify in 10 th e human fo o d c h a in ? 11 A. Alm ost c e r t a i n l y n o t . 12 Q. Did you e ver review any l e t t e r a u th o re d by a 13 Monsanto em ployee which in fo rm e d Monsanto custom ers t h a t 14 PCBs can b io m a g n ify in t h e human fo o d c h a in ? 15 A. I b e l i e v e , y e s . 16 Q. Who a u th o r e d t h a t -- Who were th e a u t h o r s , i f 17 t h e r e was more th a n o n e, of th o s e l e t t e r s , i f t h e r e was 18 more th a n one? IS A. That type of communication would probably have 20 been a u th o r e d by Jim M u ir, B i l l P a p a g e o r g e . These a r e th e 21 names t h a t come t o mind a s p e o p le who would compose such 22 l e t t e r s . oJ Q. I'm in te r e s te d in knowing whether you surm ise 24 t h a t th e s e gentlem en w rote th o se l e t t e r s or whether you 25 ever remember r e v ie w in g a l e t t e r w r i t t e n by anyone t h a t - 85 COHCABNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION! 1 inform ed Monsanto custom ers t h a t PCBs can biom agnify in th e o human fo o d c h a i n . 3 A. I know t h a t t h e r e were q u e s t i o n s from our 4 customers about the issu es of b io m agn ificatio n , and, there 5 f o r e , I know t h a t i n d i v i d u a l l e t t e r s would have been 6 authored by such people i n response to such q u e s t i o n s . I 7 am not aware o f any g e n e r a l open custom er l e t t e r 8 communication th a t they authored. 9 Q. And g o in g back f o r a moment, do you r e c a l l 10 ever r e v ie w in g a l e t t e r w r i t t e n by a Monsanto employee to 11 Monsanto custom ers t h a t d i s c u s s e s PCB b i o m a g n i f i c a t i o n i n 12 th e human fo o d c h a in ? 13 A . I d o n 't r e c a l l t h a t . 14 Q. Did you have any d i s c u s s i o n s w ith any Monsanto 15 c u sto m e rs where Monsanto in fo rm e d t h e custom ers t h a t PCBs 16 can b io m a g n ify in th e human fo o d c h a in ? 17 A . Y e s , I d i d . 18 Q. When d id t h o s e o c c u r ? 19 A. Between 1975, J a n u a r y , and 1976, ` 7 7 . 20 Q. With whom d id you have th o s e d i s c u s s i o n s ? 21 A . A t v a r i o u s p o i n t s I would have had d i s c u s s i o n s 22 around th o s e s u b j e c t s w ith every one of our U . S . c u s to m e r s . 23 Q. So you had th o s e d i s c u s s i o n s w ith G e n e r a l 24 E l e c t r i c ? 25 A . ,. Ye s . - 86 - CONCANNON JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. And you had th o s e d i s c u s s i o n s w ith 0 Westinghouse? 3 A. Yes, I did. 4 Q. Do you knowwhether anyonew i t h i n Monsanto 3 p r io r to 1975 inform ed i t s custom ers t h a t PCBs can 6 b io m a g n ify in t h e human fo o d c h a in ? 7 A. I surmise t h a t they musthave done because 8 b io m a g n i fi c a t io n was not an a l i e n term in d is c u s s io n s 9 between Monsanto and i t s custom ers when I became in v o l v e d 10 in t h i s b u s in e s s i n 1975. I I Q. Have you ever review ed a l e t t e r w r i t t e n by any 12 of M onsanto' s custom ers t o t h e i r custom ers t h a t i n d i c a t e s 13 t h a t PCBs can b io m a g n ify in th e human fo o d c h a in ? 14 A. Mo. 15 Q. Have any o f Monsanto* s custom ers e v e r in fo rm e d 16 you t h a t they have t o l d t h e i r custom ers t h a t PCBs can 17 b io m a g n ify in t h e human fo o d c h a in ? 18 MR. FEATHERSTONE: I t h i n k we' re on M o n s a n to 's 19 custom ers t o i t s c u s to m e r s . Is t h a t r i g h t ? 20 THE WITNESS: I th o u g h t we had j u s t d e p a r te d 21 from t h a t . 22 MR. FEATHERSTONE : W e l l , l e t ' s have th e q u e s 23 t i o n b a ck , t h e n , to p re v e n t any c o n fu s io n on t h i s . 24 (Thereupon, th e r e p o r t e r propounded th e p r e v io u s 25 q u e s t i o n .) - 87 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. M o n sa n to 's cu stom ers a d v is e d me t h a t th e y were 2 communicating with th e ir customers about the presence and 3 impact of PCB in th e e n v iro n m e n t. Whether they s p e c i f i c a l 4 ly in such communication d e a lt with b io m a gn ifica tio n , I 5 cannot with certain ty say. 6 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) Do you know what th e term 7 "synergism" means? 8 A. Yes. 3 Q. What does synergism mean? 10 A . Synergism means t h a t a p a r t i c u l a r a c t i v i t y 11 r e l a t e d w ith two or more i n d i v i d u a l p r o d u c ts can be 12 m a g n ifie d more th a n by p u r e ly th e a d d i t i v e a f f e c t o f th o s e 13 two a c t i v i t i e s when th e y a re com bined. 14 Q. Can PCBs work s y n e r g i s t i c a l l y w ith o th e r 15 compounds im p a ir in g an immune system ? 16 MR. FEATHERSTONE* O b j e c t i o n . C a l l s f o r 17 s p e c u l a t i o n on t h i s w i t n e s s ' s p a r t . 18 A. I have no know ledge. 19 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) Do you know whether Monsanto 20 ever inform ed i t s cu stom ers t h a t PCBs can work s y n e r 21 g i s t i c a l l y w ith o th e r compounds by im p a ir in g t h e immune 22 system ? 23 A. No. 24 Q. No, you d o n 't know, or no, Monsanto d i d n ' t 25 r e la y t h a t in f o r m a t io n t o it 's cu sto m e rs? - 88 CONCANNON a JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. You asked me i f I knew i f Monsanto had e v e r , 2 and I sa id no. 3 Q. D id W estin gh ou se ever in fo rm you t h a t i t knew 4 as o f 1938 t h a t PCS c o n t a c t w ith th e s k in can cau se 5 systemic e ffe c t s , including in jurious e ffe c ts to the liv e r ? 6 A . W estinghou se never t o l d me t h i s . 7 Q. Did General E le c tr ic ever t e l l you th a t i t 8 knew in 1938 t h a t PCS c o n t a c t w ith th e s k in can cau se 9 sy ste m ic e f f e c t s , in c lu d in g in ju r io u s e f f e c t s on th e l i v e r ? 10 A. G e n e ra l E l e c t r i c never t o l d me t h i s . 11 MR. FEATHERSTONE: C o u ld I have t h a t l a s t 12 q u e s t io n o a c k ? 13 (Thereupon, th e r e p o r t e r read back t h e q u e s t i o n .) 14 A. In both c a s e s , in answer to both of th o s e 15 q u e s t i o n s , I was never t o l d t h a t by W estinghou se and I was 16 never t o l d t h a t by G e n e r a l E l e c t r i c . 17 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) D id W estin gh ou se e ver t e l l 18 you t h a t i t knew in 1947 t h a t c h r o n ic p o is o n in g may occu r 19 w ith r e p e a te d e x p o s u r e s t o s u f f i c i e n t c o n c e n t r a t i o n s of PCB 20 vapor ? 21 A. NO. 22 Q. D id G e n e r a l E l e c t r i c ever in fo rm you t h a t i n 23 1947 i t knew t h a t c h r o n ic p o is o n in g may occu r w ith r e p e a te d 24 e x p o su re s t o s u f f i c i e n t c o n c e n t r a t io n s o f PCB v a p o r? 25 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. Did Monsanto inform i t s customers p rio r to 2 1970 t h a t c h r o n ic p o is o n in g may occur w ith r e p e a te d 3 e x p o su re s t o s u f f i c i e n t c o n c e n t r a t io n s o f PCB v a p o r? 4 MR. FEATHERSTONE: I'm s o r r y . L e t me h ear th e 5 fir s t part of that question back. 6 (Thereupon, the reporter propounded a p art of the 7 previous question.) 8 MR. FEATHERSTONE: A l l r i g h t . T h a t ' s a l l I 9 need. 10 (Thereupon, th e r e p o r t e r propounded t h e p r e v io u s 11 q u e s t io n i n i t s e n t i r e t y . ) 12 MR. FEATHERSTONE: I o b j e c t t o t h e form of t h e 13 q u e s t io n a s c a l l i n g f o r s p e c u l a t i o n on t h e p a r t o f t h e 14 w itn e s s a s t o what may have happened a t Monsanto p r i o r to 15 197 0. No f o u n d a t io n f o r him t o answer th e q u e s t i o n on 16 b e h a l f of t h e e n t i r e company. 17 A . I c e r t a i n l y made no such d i s c l o s u r e t o my 18 customer base i n E u rop e. 19 Q. (by Mr. B r a d le y ) Were you ever p r o v id e d any 20 documents i n t h e work t h a t you d id w ith Monsanto t h a t 21 i n d i c a te d Monsanto knew in 1947 t h a t c h r o n ic p o is o n in g may 22 occu r w ith r e p e a te d e x p o s u r e s t o s u f f i c i e n t c o n c e n t r a t i o n s 23 of PCB va p o r? 24 A. NO. 25 Q. Were you e ver in fo rm e d d u r in g your work a t - 90 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Monsanto t h a t r e p e a te d e x p o s u r e s t o PCB vapor nay produce 2 i n t e r n a l b o d i ly i n j u r y which may be d i s a b l i n g or c o u ld be 3 fatal? 4 A. Sorry. I t ' s ju s t the form the form of 5 in g e stio n I dicin' t capture in th a t q u e stio n . 6 MR. BRADLEY: Would you rea d t h e q u e s t i o n 7 back? 3 (Thereupon, the reporter read back the q u estion .) o A. I was in fo rm ed by Monsanto t h a t e x p o su re to 10 vapors of PCBs a t high l e v e l s a t high tem peratures should 11 be a v o id e d . T h is was never communicated t o me i n a sense 12 t h a t t h i s was p o t e n t i a l l y f a t a l . 13 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) D id Monsanto e ver in fo rm i t s 14 custom ers t h a t p e r i o d i c p h y s i c a l e x a m in a tio n s s h o u ld be 15 co n d u cted by m e d ica l p e r s o n n e l f o r w orkers e xp osed t o PCBs? 15 MR. FEATHERSTONE: O b je c t t o t h e form of th e 17 q u e s t io n and t o t h e .a b s e n c e of f o u n d a t io n f o r t h i s w it n e s s 18 to t e s t i f y on b e h a l f of Monsanto over a lo n g p e r io d o f 19 t im e . C a l l s f o r s p e c u l a t i o n . 20 A. The standard in d u s t r ia l hygiene p r a c tic e th a t 21 was communicated i n our i n s t r u c t i o n a l manuals t o d i e l e c t r i c 22 u s e r s d id n o t in c l u d e recommendation as t o r o u t in e m e d ic a l 23 i n s p e c t i o n . 24 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) And over what p e r io d o f 25 y e a r s a r e you f a m i l i a r w ith th o se i n s t r u c t i o n m anu als? - 91 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRAMSCRIPTION 1 A. An i n i t i a l p e r io d between 1965 and 1970, and a 2 secondary phase between 1975 and 1978. 3 Q. Did you ever review i n s t r u c t i o n m anuals 4 prepared p r io r to 1965? 5 A. No, I did n o t. 6 Q. Have you e v e r heard o f Congressman Ryan? 7 A. I r e c a ll the name. I c a n 't r e c a l l in what 8 c o n t e x t I know th e name. 9 Q. Do you know whether Congressman Ryan i n 1970 10 p rop osed l e g i s l a t i o n t h a t would im pact upon th e s a l e of 11 PCBs? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Do you know whether i n 1955 Monsanto knew t h a t 14 p r o d u c t io n w orkers m a n u fa c t u r in g PCBs e x p e r ie n c e d c h l o r 15 a c n e , g a s t r i c t r o u b l e s , and l i v e r t r o u b l e s ? 16 L e t me r e p h ra s e th e q u e s t i o n . I ' m not happy 17 w ith t h a t q u e s t i o n . Do you know, d u rin g t h e p e r io d o f tim e 18 you were employed a t M onsanto, whether i t ever in fo rm e d i t s 19 custom ers t h a t i t was r e p o r t e d in 1955 t h a t p r o d u c t io n 20 workers m a n u fa c tu r in g PCBs e x p e r ie n c e d c h l o r a c n e , g a s t r i c 21 t r o u b l e s , and l i v e r t r o u b l e s ? 22 MR. FEATHERSTONE: O b je c t t o t h e form of th e 23 q u e s t i o n . 24 MR. BRADLEY: W h a t's wrong w ith th e form of 25 th e q u e s t i o n ? - 92 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 MR. FEATHERSTONE: I t m i s s t a t e s th e e v id e n c e . 2 Q. (by ilr . B ra d le y ) Go ahead and answ er. 3 A. I ' m unable to respond to th at q u estio n . I 4 have no knowledge of such com m unications p r i o r to my b e in g 5 in v o lv e d , and c e r t a i n l y I was not in v o lv e d w h ils t I was 6 r e s p o n s ib le w ith any such com m unication. 7 Q. You' re f a m i l i a r w ith th e work o f P r o f e s s o r 8 Widmark? 9 A. P r o f e s s o r Widmark, to my know ledge, d id v e ry 10 l i t t l e work h i m s e l f w ith any r e le v a n c e t o t h e s u b j e c t we* re 11 t a l k i n g a b o u t . 12 Q. Are you f a m i l i a r w ith th e work o f D r. Je n s e n ? 13 A* Y e s . 14 Q. Did he i s s u e a p u b lis h e d r e p o r t i n 1967 15 r e g a r d in g PCBs i n t h e environm ent? 16 A. No. 17 Q. When d id he i s s u e a r e p o r t ? I f he d i d . 18 A. I b e l i e v e h i s r e p o r t , which he commented about 19 th e work e a r l i e r , but h i s r e p o r t was i s s u e d no e a r l i e r th a n 20 1969. 21 Q. Was h i s r e p o r t a p u b lis h e d r e p o r t ? 22 A. Which one a re we t a l k i n g a b o u t? 23 Q. The one i n " 69, I g u e s s . 24 A. I b e lie v e h is work was f i n a l l y p resen ted in a 25 p u b lis h e d form sometime i n th e 1969 tim e fr a m e . - 93 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRAMSCRIPTION I Q. Was i t a v a i l a b l e i n an u n p u b lis h e d form p r io r 2 to *69? 3 A. I t had been -- Commentary about the d ir e c t io n 4 t h a t h i s work was t a k i n g were r e l e a s e d by D r. Je n s e n and 5 D r. Widmark in th e w in te r of 1966. 6 Q. What was D r. Je n s e n r e p o r t i n g ? 7 A. I d o n 't b e lie v e Je n se n was a doctor a t th a t 8 tim e, so t h a t Dr. Je n s e n , he was not a doctor r e p o r tin g 9 anything at that point in tim e. 10 Q. What was Mr. J e n s e n r e p o r t i n g ? I I MR. FEATHERSTONE: O b je c t t o t h e fo rm . 12 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) What was Mr. Je n s e n 13 r e p o r t i n g i n t h i s u n p u b lis h e d stu d y t h a t came out i n 1966? 14 MR. FEATHERSTONE: W ait a m in u te . The w i t n e s s 15 has t a l k e d about com m entaries i n th e w in te r of 1966. I s 16 t h a t what y o u 1re t a l k i n g a b o u t? 17 MR. BRADLEY: The w it n e s s has t a l k e d ab o u t a 18 p u b lis h e d s tu d y t h a t ap peared i n *69 and com m entaries t h a t 19 were a re r e l e a s e d i n t h e w in t e r of *66. T h a t ' s what my 20 n o te s show. 21 Were th e com m entaries w r i t t e n by Mr. Je n s e n or 22 by o t h e r s ? 23 A. By o t h e r s . 24 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) Were th e com m entaries 25 comments on an u n p u b lis h e d s tu d y p rep ared by Mr. J e n s e n ? - 94 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. The commentaries dep arted from an unpu blished 2 study of work in p r o g r e s s by Mr. Je n s e n and e x te n d e d them 3 s e l v e s i n t o a r e a s o f s p e c u l a t i o n which were of some 4 embarrassment to Mr. Jen sen . 5 MR. BRADLEY: I move t o s t r i k e th e answer as 6 nonresponsive. 7 Were th e com mentaries e v a l u a t i o n s o f an un 8 p u b lis h e d work t h a t was b e in g c i r c u l a t e d by Mr. Je n s e n ? 9 A. Ho. C e r ta in ly n o t. 10 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) A l l r i g h t . What were -- 11 Were th e com m entaries on -- W e ll, l e t me ask i t t h i s way: 12 What were th e com m entaries commenting on? 13 A. Commentaries i n December of 1966, based on 14 some a n a l y t i c a l s t u d i e s which Mr. J e n s e n was c o n d u c t in g b u t 15 had n o t co m p le te d , were made e s s e n t i a l l y a t th e i n s t i g a t i o n 16 o f p e o p le who were m a n u fa c tu r in g an a n a l y t i c a l -- a p ie c e 17 o f a n a l y t i c a l equipment which they w ished t o promote a t 18 t h a t p a r t i c u l a r tim e . 19 The p r e s s r e l e a s e s about th e p erfo rm an ce of 20 t h a t equipment r e l a t e d t o t h e a b i l i t y of such equipment t o 21 d eterm ine th e p re s e n ce of t h e e n v iro n m e n ta l c o n ta m in a n ts o f 22 a c h l o r i n a t e d n a t u r e i n t h e e n v iro n m e n t. The commentary 23 r e l a t e d t o some t h i n g s or th e p re s e n ce of some m o le c u le s 24 other than BDT, which the p a r t i c u l a r study was in v o lv e d 25 w ith , and beyond t h a t p o i n t , th e r e s t of th e commentary was - 95 COMCAMNOH & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 speculative. 2 Q. Was t h e r e any d i s c u s s i o n i n t h e commentaries 3 of PCBs? 4 A. No. There was a commentary a t t h a t p o in t in 5 tim e about some m a t e r i a l s which were d e s c r i b e d by t h e 6 commentators as c h l o r i n a t e d d i p h e n o l s . And t h i s c r e a t e d 7 some major c o n f u s i o n a s t o what c h l o r i n a t e d s p e c i e s o f 8 i n d u s t r i a l or a g r i c u l t u r a l product was J e n s e n r e a l l y 9 addressing in his an alytical study. 10 Q. Was t h e r e a tim e when i t was made c l e a r t h a t 11 c h l o r i n a t e d d i p h e n o l s were c h l o r i n a t e d d i p h e n y l s ? 12 MR. FEATHERSTONE: W a it a m i n u t e . That 13 d o e s n ' t f o l l o w . You mean t h a t t h a t ' s what he was t a l k i n g 14 a b o u t? 15 MR. BRADLEY: Y e s . C h l o r i n a t e d d i p h e n o l s , and 16 i n f a c t , he was t a l k i n g abou t c h l o r i n a t e d d i p h e n y l s . 17 Can you answer t h e q u e s t i o n ? 18 A. S u r e . 19 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Then go ahead and answer 20 i t . 21 A. To my mind, t h e query as t o what c h l o r i n a t e d 22 s p e c i e s r e a l l y were i n v o l v e d i n Mr. J e n s e n ' s s t u d y , to my 23 mind, was n o t s c i e n t i f i c a l l y r e s o l v e d u n t i l about 1969 or 24 even l a t e r . 25 Q. {by Mr. B ra d le y ) When i t was s c i e n t i f i c a l l y - 96 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 r e s o l v e d , what c h l o r i n a t e d compound was i t t h a t was 2 in v o lv e d in Mr. J e n s e n ' s study? 3 A. Highly chlorin ated biphenyls. PCPs, as they 4 became known. 5 MR. FEATHERSTONE; When you s a i d " c h l o r i n a t e d 6 d ip h en o ls," would you s p e ll th at for the reporter? 7 THE WITNESSs Y e s . The o r i g i n a l Swedish 8 la n g u a g e a r t i c l e s commenting on J e n s e n t a l k about v/ork 9 related to a chemical material described as chlorinated 10 d i p h e n o l s , d - i - p - h - e - n - o - l - s . 11 MR. FEATHERSTONE: A l l r i g h t . 12 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) O kay. And how i s t h a t 13 d i f f e r e n t from t h e s p e l l i n g o f c h l o r i n a t e d d i p h e n y l s ? 14 A. A phenol r a d i c a l i s a benzene r i n g w i t h a 15 h y d r o x y l group a s s o c i a t e d w i t h i t . 15 Q. I ' m j u s t t a l k i n g about t h e s p e l l i n g ? How does 17 t h e s p e l l i n g d i f f e r ? 18 A. D ip h e n y l has a Y i n p l a c e of t h e 0 , but 19 t h e y ' r e v e r y d i f f e r e n t c h e m ic a l m a t e r i a l s , and, t h e r e f o r e , 20 whether my answer i s s e l f - s e r v i n g or n o t , we have t o be 21 very p r e c i s e on what w e ' r e t a l k i n g a b o u t . 22 MR. BRADLEY: I move t o s t r i k e as n o n re sp o n 23 s i V Q . 24 MR. FEATHERSTONE: O f f the r e c o r d . 25 (Thereupon, a s h o r t c o l l o q u y was h a d .) - 97 - CONCANNON k JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) And a t the time of the 2 J e n s e n p u b l i s h e d r e p o r t i n 1969, was he a d o c t o r ? 3 A. I d o n ' t know. I d o n ' t know whether he 4 received h i s doctorate or not. 5 Q. And f o l l o w i n g h i s r e p o r t , do you know whether 6 Monsanto increased or decreased i t s production of PCBs? 7 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Which r e p o r t , now? 8 MR. BRADLEY: The 1969 p u b l i s h e d r e p o r t . 9 A. C h r o n o l o g i c a l l y , Monsanto* s r e d u c t io n of i t s 10 o u tp u t of PCBs was a f t e r t h e p u b l i c a t i o n o f t h e J e n s e n 11 r e p o r t , but I must i n s i s t t h a t t h a t i s p u r e l y t h a t . I 12 mean, c h r o n o l o g i c a l l y we reduced p r o d u c t i o n , i n t i m e , a f t e r 13 th e p u b l i c a t i o n o f J e n se n * s r e p o r t . 14 Q. (by Mr. B r a d le y ) W e l l , l e t me a s k t h i s q u e s 15 t i o n : D id you i n c r e a s e or d e c r e a s e t h e p r o d u c t i o n of PCBs 16 i n 1970 v e r s u s 1969? 17 A. On a worldwide b a s i s , I do not have t h a t know 18 l e d g e . 19 Q. How about on t h e -- u s i n g t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s a s 20 a u n i v e r s e ? Between 1969 and 1970, d id Monsanto i n c r e a s e 21 or d e c r e a s e i t s U n i t e d S t a t e s p r o d u c t i o n o f PCBs? 22 A. I d o n ' t know. 23 Q. Between 1969 and 1971, d id Monsanto i n c r e a s e 24 or d e c r e a s e i t s worldwide p r o d u c t i o n o f PCBs? 2D A. I don* t know. - 98 CONCANWON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. Can you t e l l rae what y e a r Monsanto f i r s t 2 reduced i t s worldwide p ro d u ctio n of PCBs f o ll o w i n g iss u a n c e 3 of the p u b l i s h e d r e p o r t by J e n s e n i n 1969? 4 MR. FEATHERSTONE: O b j e c t t o t h e form of t h e 5 q u e s t i o n . Also c a l l s f o r s p e c u l a t io n on th e p a r t of the 5 w itness, since h e 's already to ld you for several of those 7 y e a r s he d o e s n ' t know one way or t h e o t h e r . 8 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) Mr. Wood, i f you d o n ' t know 9 t h e answer, j u s t t e l l rae you d o n ' t know i t ? i f you do know 10 the answer, go ahead and answer i t . 11 A. Because I was u n i n v o l v e d w i t h PCBs d u r i n g t h a t 12 p e r i o d , I d o n ' t know t h e answer t o t h a t q u e s t i o n . 13 Q/* A l l r i g h t . Do you know what i t means t o b i o 14 d e g r a d e ? 15 A. Y e s , I do. 16 Q. Do PCBs m a n u fa c t u re d by Monsanto b i o d e g r a d e ? 17 A. Y e s . 18 Q. What does b io d e g r a d e mean? 19 A. B io d e g ra d e means t h a t when a c h e m ic a l i s 20 present in the environment in con tact with other n a t u r a l ly 21 occurring sp ecies in the environment, th a t the m aterial 22 w i l l g r a d u a l l y be broken down i n t o s m a l l e r components. 23 Q. And i f a compound b re a k s down i n t o s m a l l e r 24 components but does not completely disappear, does i t s t i l l 25 b i o d e g r a d e ? - 99 - CON CANNON Sc JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A Yes. 2 Q. And how i s t h a t e x p r e s s e d , as com p lete b i o 3 d e g r a d a t i o n , p a r t i a l b i o d e g r a d a t i o n , or some o t h e r phrase 4 or term? 5 MR. FEATHERSTONES O b j e c t t o t h e form of t h e 6 question. 7 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) What p h r a se i s used t o r e f e r 8 to a compound t h a t bre a ks down i n t o s m a l l e r components but 9 does not completely disappear? 10 A. I would r e f e r to i t a s a p a r t i a l l y b i o d e g r a d 11 a b l e m i x t u r e . 12 Q. Are t h e PCBs m a n u fa c tu re d by Monsanto com 13 p l e t e l y b i o d e g r a d a b l e or p a r t i a l l y b i o d e g r a d a b l e ? 14 A. P a r t i a l l y b i o d e g r a d a b l e . 15 Q. Are t h e r e any PCBs m a n u fa c t u r e d by Monsanto 16 t h a t a r e c o m p l e t e l y b i o d e g r a d a b l e ? Excuse me. L e t me 17 r ep h r a s e t h a t . D u rin g t h e p e r i o d o f tim e t h a t you were 18 working w i t h Monsanto r e l a t i v e to t h e i s s u e o f PCBs, were 19 any of t h e PCBs m a n u fa c t u r e d by Monsanto c o m p l e t e l y b i o 20 d e g r a d a b l e ? 21 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Are you t a l k i n g about 22 p roduct m i x t u r e s , or a r e you t a l k i n g abou t i n d i v i d u a l 23 is o m e r s ? 24 MR. BRADLEY: I u n d e r s t a n d , you know, from t h e 25 Tucker d e p o s i t i o n t h a t t h e r e i s a d i f f e r e n c e . I want t o - 100 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION i hear what h i s understanding i s and e x p la n a tio n of i t , so 2 I'm ju st going to leave the question as i t is . 3 MR. FEATHERSTONE: O b j e c t t o t h e form of the 4 question. 5 A. P o l y c h l o r i n a t e d b i p h e n y l s , as s o l d by Monsanto 6 fo r v a r io u s d i e l e c t r i c a p p l i c a t i o n s , were complex m ixtu re s 7 o f isom ers. The v a r io u s isomers of c h l o r i n a t e d b ip h en y l 8 have d i f f e r i n g b io d e g ra d a tio n r a t e s , and those v a ry in g 9 b io d e g r a d a t io n r a t e s w i l l them selves vary depending on th e 10 environment w i t h i n which t h e b i o d e g r a d a t i o n i s o c c u r r i n g , 11 So d i s c u s s i o n about complete or in c o m p le t e b i o d e g r a d a t i o n 12 can o n ly be d i s c u s s e d r e l a t i v e t o s p e c i f i c PCB m i x t u r e s and 13 d i f f e r e n t s p e c i f i c e n v ir o n m e n t a l e x p o s u r e s . 14 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) D u rin g t h e tim e you were 15 working w i t h PCBs a t Monsanto, were t h e r e any PCB m i x t u r e s 16 t h a t c o m p l e t e l y b io d e g r a d e d ? 17 A . C e r t a i n is o m e r s o f p o l y c h l o r i n a t e d b i p h e n y l in 18 t e s t s c a r r i e d out by Monsanto were shown t o b io d e g r a d e com 19 p l e t e l y . 20 Q. Were any t e s t s con d u cte d by Monsanto o u t s i d e 21 of a l a b o r a t o r y s i t u a t i o n which showed t h a t -- S t r i k e t h e 22 q u e s t i o n . 23 Would you read back h i s answer t o me? 24 (Thereupon, t h e r e p o r t e r propounded t h e p r e v i o u s 25 answer.) - 101 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED.TRANSCRIPTION; "~i 1 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Did Monsanto perform any 2 te st to determine whether the isomers which were'shown to 3 biodegrade completely would biodegrade completely outside 4 of the laboratory? 5 MR. FEATHERSTONE: O b j e c t t o t h e form . 6 A. That would not have been a f r u i t f u l l i n e of 7 t e s t i n g , so we d id n o t . 8 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) I have shown youP l a i n t i f f 8s 9 E x h i b i t 424 j u s t b e f o r e we s t a r t e d up a g a i n f o l l o w i n g t h e 10 lunch h o u r . I s t h a t an e x h i b i t you have ever seen b e f o r e ? 11 A. You s a i d 424. 12 Q. L e t me s t a r t t h e q u e s t i o n a g a i n . I 'm now 13 showing you P l a i n t i f f ' s E x h i b i t 422 which I a s k e d you t o 14 review j u s t b e f o r e we s t a r t e d up a g a i n h e r e f o l l o w i n g our 15 lunch b r e a k . I s t h a t an e x h i b i t t h a t you have seen p r i o r 16 to t o d a y ? 17 A. No, I h a v e n ' t . 18 Q. Okay. I 'm g o i n g t o show you P l a i n t i f f ' s 19 E x h i b i t 435 and a s k you t o review t h a t f o r me, p l e a s e . 20 A. Y e s . 21 Q. I s t h i s a l e t t e r w r i t t e n by you? 22 A. Y e s , i t i s . 23 Q. A l l r i g h t . And i t * s t o George Buchanan i n S t . 24 Louis? 25 A. Y e s , i t i s . - 102 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRAM SCRIPT IOil "T 1 Q. And i t ' s d a te d December 1 , 1966? 2 A. Yes, i t i s . 3 Q. And a t t a c h e d t o t h e l e t t e r i s a copy of a 4 l e t t e r received from Ola Palm in Stockholm? 5 A. The s i g n a t u r e appears t o be " O l a , " and g i v e n 6 my knowledge of the -- or remembrance of t h e o r g a n i s a t i o n , 7 th a t would have been Ola Palm. 8 Q. And i s t h i s e x h i b i t a t r u e and a c c u r a t e copy 9 of the l e t t e r you a u th o r e d December 1 , 1966 to George 10 Buchanan w i t h t h e a t t a c h m e n t ? 11 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Are you e x c l u d i n g t h e hand 12 w r i t i n g t h a t ' s on t h e second and t h i r d p a g e s ? 13 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) L e t me f i r s t a s k ; I s t h a t 14 your h a n d w r i t i n g on t h e l e t t e r from O l a Palm to you ? 15 A. No. 16 MR. FEATHERSTONEi L e t ' s go o f f t h e r e c o r d . 17 (Thereupon, a d i s c u s s i o n was h a d .) 18 Q. (by Mr. B r a d le y ) O ther than t h e h a n d w r i t i n g 19 on t h e f i r s t page of t h e l e t t e r w r i t t e n t o you by O la Palm, 20 i s t h i s a t r u e and a c c u r a t e copy of t h e l e t t e r you wrote 21 December 1 , 1966 t o George Buchanan a t t a c h i n g t h e l e t t e r 22 d i r e c t e d t o you from O la Palm i n S t o c k h o lm ? 23 A. The copy of t h e l e t t e r from R i s i n g & S t r a n d i s 24 indeed a copy of t h e l e t t e r I r e c e i v e d from them. The 25 l e t t e r d a t e d t h e 1 s t of December i s my l e t t e r t o George - 105 - / ~ CONCANNON & JAEGER '7 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Buchanan. Other than th e handw ritten notes on th R i s i n g & 2 S t r a n d l e t t e r , t h e r e a r e some u n d e r l i n i n g s of emphasis on 3 page two and some s i d e - l i n i n g s on page t h r e e which a r e not 4 mine. 5 Q. Otherwise, i t ' s a true and accurate copy? 6 A. Yes, i t is . 7 Q. Did you w rite the l e t t e r to George Buchanan, 8 December 1 , 1966, s h o r t ly a f t e r you r e c e iv e d th e l e t t e r 9 from Ola Palm in Stockholm? 10 A. G i v e n t h e normal m a il t r a n s m i s s i o n t i m e , the 11 R i s i n g & S t r a n d l e t t e r you s e e i s d a t e d November 2 8 t h , and 12 almost im m e d ia t e l y I wrote t o Mr. Buchanan. 13 Q. I s t h i s a document t h a t you m a i n t a i n e d i n your 14 f i l e s a t Monsanto a s p a r t o f M o n s a n to 's r e g u l a r l y - c o n d u c t e d 15 b u s i n e s s a c t i v i t y ? 15 A . I t would n o r m a l ly have been i n ray d i e l e c t r i c 17 Sweden f i l e . 18 Q. Okay. 19 MR. FEATHERSTONE : About t h a t q u e s t i o n , Mr. 20 B r a d l e y , you were i n t e n d i n g t o ask him about h i s copy of 21 the l e t t e r w i t h o u t somebody e l s e ' s h a n d w r i t t e n m a r g i n a l 22 n o t e s ? 23 MR. BRADLEY: T h a t ' s c o r r e c t . W ithou t t h e 24 h a n d w r it t e n n o t e s and w i t h o u t t h e u n d e r l i n i n g s and w i t h o u t 25 t h e l i n e s drawn b e s i d e two p a r a g r a p h s on t h e l a s t page from - 104 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTIOR 1 Ola Palm. o4 MR. FEATHERSTOME: Okay. 3 Q. (by Mr. B r a d le y ) Mr. Wood, I have shown you 4 P l a i n t i f f ' s E x h i b i t 358. I s t h a t a memorandum t h a t you 5 wrote to B i l l Papageorge on October 3 0 th , 1975? 6 A. The heading would su g ge st s o . 7 Q. A ll r i g h t . Is t h i s a true and a ccu ra te copy 8 of the l e t t e r t h a t you wrote to Mr. Papageorge on t h a t 9 date? 10 A. I d o n ' t r e c a l l every l e t t e r I wrote i n 1975. 11 I t does no t seem t o have been tampered w i t h . 12 Q. And i s t h i s a document you wrote r e g a r d i n g 13 an EPA l e t t e r r e c e i v e d O c to b e r 17, 1975? 14 A. T h a t ' s what t h e r e f e r e n c e t o t h i s memo 15 s u g g e s t s . 16 Q. I s t h i s a document t h a t you kept i n your f i l e s 17 a t Monsanto a s p a r t of i t s r e g u l a r l y - c o n d u c t e d b u s i n e s s ? 18 A. Y e s . 19 Q. I 'm now g o i n g t o show you P l a i n t i f f ' s E x h i b i t 20 357 and ask you t o review t h a t document. 21 L e t ' s go o f f th e r e c o r d f o r a moment. 22 (Thereupon, a s h o r t r e c e s s was t a k e n . ) 23 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) Mr. Wood, you have b e f o r e 24 you both P l a i n t i f f ' s E x h i b i t s 357 and 358? 25 A. Y e s . - 105 - CONCANNON .& JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. E x h i b i t 358, which we have p r e v i o u s l y spoken 2 a b o u t , i n d i c a t e s t h a t i t * s a comment on an EPA l e t t e r 3 r e c e i v e d 1 0 -1 7 -19 7 5 . I s P l a i n t i f f 8s E x h i b i t 357 t h e l e t t e r 4 from th e EPA t h a t i s r e f e r e n c e d i n E x h i b i t 358? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Is th a t a true and accu rate copy of the l e t t e r 7 that is referred to in P l a i n t i f f ' s E xh ib it 358, absent the 8 markings and handw riting? 9 A. Are we on 358 or 357? 10 Q. L e t me s t a r t a l l overa g a i n . On 357 t h e r e a r e 11 some u n d e r l i n i n g s and t h e r e a r e some h a n d w r i t t e n words. 12 A. Y e s , t h e r e a r e . 13 Q. Did you w r i t e t h o s e h a n d w r i t t e n words? 14 A. Y e s . 15 Q. Didyou u n d e r l i n e t h o s e p o r t i o n s o f E x h i b i t 16 357 t h a t a r e u n d e r l i n e d ? 17 A. Y e s . 18 Q. And d id you put t h e m arkin gs n e x t t o c e r t a i n 19 p a r a g r a p h s , the s t r a i g h t l i n e up and down? 20 A. Y e s . 21 Q. And i s t h i s a t r u e anda c c u r a t e copy o f t h e 22 l e t t e r t h a t you r e c e i v e d O c to b e r 17, 1975 from t h e U n i t e d 23 S t a t e s E nviron m e n ta l P r o t e c t i o n Agency? 24 A. Y e s . 25 Q. I s t h i s adocument t h a t youm a i n t a i n e d w i t h i n - 106 COMCAMMON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 your f i l e s a t Monsanto as part of Monsanto's r e g u la r ly 2 conducted business? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Turning t o 358, on th e second page under item 5 tw e lv e , you have l i s t e d Q10, which I assume means q u e s t i o n 6 t e n . I t s a y s , None, q u e stio n mark; Yusho, q u e s tio n mark? 7 C i o r a c n e y e a r s a g o , hyphen, Dangerous Q u e s t i o n . What were 8 you r e f e r r i n g t o when you i n d i c a t e d t h e r e was a dangerous 9 question? 10 A. Q u e s t i o n t e n i n t h e EPA l e t t e r r e q u e s t s a 11 d e s c r i p t i o n o f any a d v e r se h e a l t h or e n v ir o n m e n t a l e f f e c t s 12 which you know or b e l i e v e s p e c u l a t e t o have r e s u l t e d from 13 the i n t r o d u c t i o n of PCB compounds. 14 I t a ske d t h e c o r r e s p o n d e n t t o i n d i c a t e 15 s p e c i f i c a l l y o c c a s i o n s o f d a t e s , t i m e s , l o c a t i o n s , amounts 16 and p a r t i e s i n v o l v e d f o r which such e f f e c t s a r e known, and, 17 i n making a comment on t h i s q u e s t i o n t e n t o B i l l 18 P a p a g e o r g e , who would be r e s p o n s i b l e f o r M o n s a n t o 's r e 19 sponse t o t h e EPA, I was t r y i n g t o e x p r e s s a c o n c e r n t h a t , 20 i n t r y i n g t o s u c c i n c t l y and p r e c i s e l y t o resp ond i n an open 21 f a s h i o n t o q u e s t i o n t e n , t h a t t h e r e were i s s u e s o f j u d g 22 ment, and t h a t we needed t o be ve ry c l e a r and g e t consensu s 23 t h a t t h i s in d e e d d i d r e p r e s e n t a c o r p o r a t e p o s i t i o n i n our 24 r e s p o n s e s . 25 I a l l u d e t o Yusho because t h e r e had been an - 107 CONCANNON JAEG ER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 awful l o t of i n a c c u r a t e r e p o r t i n g about e x a c t l y what was 2 th e Yusho i n c i d e n t , who was i n v o l v e d , what had been t h e 3 effects. 4 Q. W e l l , l e t me a s k t h i s q u e s t i o n : Number t e n 5 ask s, as you in d ic a t e d , fo r a d e s c r ip t io n of any adverse 6 h e a l t h or e n v ir o n m e n t a l e f f e c t s which you know or b e l i e v e 7 t o have r e s u l t e d from the i n t r o d u c t i o n of PCBs compounds or 8 m ixtures i n t o the environment, and then i t asks fo r 9 s p e c i f i c in f o r m a t io n , and on E x h i b i t 358 r e g a rd in g t h a t 10 q u e s t i o n you b e g in w i t h none, q u e s t i o n mark. Why d id you 11 put none, q u e s t i o n mark? 12 A. Because t h i s was a t a t im e when t h e r e were 13 a l l e g a t i o n s t h a t perhaps PCBs were c a r c i n o g e n i c , and s o , in 14 answering any type of resp onse of t h i s s o r t , by p u t t ix ig 15 those words w i t h t h o s e q u e s t i o n m arks, I was s a y i n g t h e r e 16 needs t o be some d i s c u s s i o n , some d e b a te a s t o , i s t h e r e 17 any l i m i t t o t h e s e v e r i t y of a f f e c t . We need t o -- L e t ' s 18 t a l k about i t , B i l l . 19 Q. And by p u t t i n g " N o n e ," w a s . t h a t i n t e n d e d a s 20 an e x p r e s s i o n o f p r i o r c o r p o r a t e resp onse t o s i m i l a r t y p e s <?"i of q u e s t i o n s ? 22 MR. FEATHERSTONE: O b j e c t t o t h e form . 23 A. No. I don* t b e l i e v e that, was s o . 24 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) A r e n ' t you b a s i c a l l y s a y i n g 25 here i n E x h i b i t 358, "G e e s, maybe we s h o u l d n ' t t e l l them - 108 CONCANNON JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION i a n y t h i n g . I-iaybe we s h o u ld t e l l them about Yusho. Maybe we 2 should t e l l them about ch lo ra cn e t h a t happened y e a r s a g o . " 3 That's a pretty dangerous question? i s n 't th at b a s ic a lly 4 what y o u 'r e sayin g t h e r e ? 5 A. No. I think t h a t ' s your in t e r p r e t a t io n of 6 what you t h i n k was i n my mind. I t ' s no t what I ' v e j u s t 7 s t a t e d was i n my mind. 8 Q. T e l l me -- I d i d n ' t u n d e rs ta n d your answer on 9 why you would l i s t "None" f o r a d e s c r i p t i o n o f any a d v e r s e 10 h e a l t h or e n v ir o n m e n t a l e f f e c t s . Did you b e l i e v e t h a t 11 "None" would be an a p p r o p r i a t e res p o n se t o q u e s t i o n t e n ? 12 A. I t h i n k t h a t "None" c o u l d have been a p p r o p r i 13 a t e a s a r e s p o n s e t o a d v e r s e human h e a l t h e f f e c t s . 14 Q. W e l l , the q u e s t i o n s a y s , "A d e s c r i p t i o n o f any 15 a d ve rse h e a l t h or e n v ir o n m e n t a l e f f e c t s . . . " Now -- 16 MR. FEATHERSTONE: W e l l , t h a t ' s no t what i t 17 s a y s , so l e t ' s g e t i t r i g h t . " . . which you know or b e l i e v e 18 t o have r e s u l t e d from th e i n t r o d u c t i o n o f PCS compounds or 19 m i x t u r e s i n t o t h e e n v i r o n m e n t ." 20 MR. BRADLEY: T h a t ' s t h e r e a s o n t h a t I t a l k e d 21 about e n v ir o n m e n t a l e f f e c t s , Mr. F e a t h e r s t o n e , i s b e c a u se 22 he had t a l k e d about a d v e r s e human h e a l t h e f f e c t s . I was 23 j u s t t r y i n g t o broaden i t . 24 But i n 197 5 you were av?are of t h e r e p o r t by 25 Mr. J e n s e n d e s c r i b i n g PCBs i n t h e environm ent? i s t h a t - 109 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 true? 2 A. I saw the r e p o r t of Mr. J e n s e n which r e p o r t e d 3 the presence of a previously unidentified chlorinated 4 s p e c ie s i n th e environm ent. T h a t 's a l l he was r e p o r t i n g , 5 the presence of a chlorinated species h ith e rto u n id en tified 6 in the environment. 7 Q. L e t s me ask you t h i s q u e s t i o n , t h e n , Mr. Wood: 8 By 1970 d i d n ' t you b e l i e v e t h a t PCBs were p r e s e n t i n t h e 9 environment and were h a v i n g some a d v e r s e a f f e c t on t h e 10 environm ent? 11 A. No. I b e l i e v e d t h e PCBs were i n t h e e n v i r o n 12 ment. I would have been g u i l t y of t h e w o r s t s o r t of s p e c u 13 l a t i o n had I t r i e d , from my knowledge base a t t h a t p o i n t i n 14 t im e , t o say what was t h e e f f e c t of t h o s e compounds i n t h e 15 environm e nt. 16 Q. Did you e ver b e l i e v e t h a t PCBs i n t h e e n v i r o n 17 ment caused e g g s h e l l s t o t h i n ? 18 A. I b e l i e v e t h a t c h l o r i n a t e d s p e c i e s i n t h e 19 environment c o u l d be c o n n e c te d w i t h e g g s h e l l t h i n n i n g . I 20 d i d n o t -- I was not c a p a b l e a t any tim e p r i o r t o 1975 of 21 r e a lfl y b e in g a b l e t o s a t i s 'f y m y s e l f i n t e l l e c t u a l l y t h a t 22 PCBs were d i r e c t l y i n v o l v e d i n e g g s h e l l t h i n n i n g . 23 Q. What d id you mean when you w rote on E x h i b i t 24 3 58, " C h io r a c n e y e a r s ago - Dangerous Q u e s t i o n , " w i t h a 25 hyphen i n between t h e r e ? - 110 CONCANNOW & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRAMSCRIPTION 1 A. The hyphen i n between was not r e l a t i n g t u . 2 dangerous q u e s t i o n t o c h l o r a c n e . I was m erely p o i n t i n g out 3 t h a t , in terras of the adverse e f f e c t s , or adverse h e a lth 4 e f f e c t s of PCB, chloracne had been ra ise d as an adverse 5 a f f e c t o f . P C B s . That had n o t h i n g t o do w i t h t h e i r p r e s e n c e 6 in th e environment i n th e sense t h a t t h i s q u e s t i o n was 7 b e in g a sk e d . I mean, t h a t was t h e i r p re se n ce i n th e work 8 p la c e which was l e a d i n g t o -- had been r e l a t e d t o l e a d t o 9 chloracne years ago. 10 And t h e q u e s t i o n s a i d , " . . t h a t you know or 11 b e l i e v e t o have r e s u l t e d from t h e i n t r o d u c t i o n o f PCB 12 compounds or m i x t u r e s i n t o t h e e n v i r o n m e n t ." C h l o r a c n e was 13 a s s o c i a t e d w i t h i t s p r e s e n c e i n t h e w o r k p l a c e , so i t was 14 p u r e l y an i n d u s t r i a l h y g ie n e q u e s t i o n , and I wanted t o know 15 how B i l l was g o i n g t o h a n d le t h a t . 16 I th e n put a hyphen t h e r e , b e c a u s e I ' m s a y i n g 17 now, t h e d a n g e r o u s - q u e s t i o n comment i n t h i s ite m t w e l v e , i t 18 r e l a t e s t o t h e whole of q u e s t i o n t e n i n t h e EPA document. 19 So I s a i d t h i s i s a dangerous q u e s t i o n be ca use by 1975 we 20 had a l r e a d y e x p e r i e n c e d a s a c o r p o r a t i o n t h e a b i l i t y of 21 p e o p l e t o t a k e an h o n e s t d i s p l a y of i n f o r m a t i o n by Monsanto 22 and t o e x t e n d t h a t i n t o s p e c u l a t i o n , c o n j e c t u r e , and t o 23 d e p a r t u r e s which t h e i n f o r m a t i o n d id not s u p p o r t , and 24 t h e r e f o r e , I 'm s a y i n g t h a t t h e r e i s an i s s u e h e r e of danger 25 in how we respond t o t h a t q u e s t i o n . - Ill CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. By 1975 y o u 'v e a l r e a d y i n d i c a t e d t o us t h a t L e i t h e r Mr. Benignus or Mr. Papageorge had made a review of 3 the early s tu d ie s regarding chloracne and determined t h a t 4 they d id n o t r e l a t e t o PCBs. I s t h a t c o r r e c t , or am I 5 misunderstanding what you t o l d us p r e v io u s ly ? 6 A. Yes, you a re . 7 MR. PEATHERSTONE: Or m i s s t a t i n g . 8 THE WITNESS: W e l l , c e r t a i n l y m i s s t a t i n g , i f ma* not m i s u n d e r s t a n d i n g . 10 Q. (by Mr. B r a d le y ) What was t h e p r i o r review of 11 -- L e t me ask i t t h i s way: By 1975 had t h e r e been a review 12 made of t h e p r e v i o u s m e d i c a l l i t e r a t u r e of c h l o r a c n e 13 r e g a r d i n g s i m i l a r symptoms i n t h e t h i r t i e s and f o r t i e s , but 14 which e i t h e r Mr. Benignus or Mr. Papageorge d e te rm in e d d i d 15 not r e l a t e s p e c i f i c a l l y t o PCBs? 16 A . Wow. 17 MR. PEATH ERS TONE : O b j e c t t o t h e fo r m . 18 THE WITNESS: T h a t i s s t i l l a m i s s t a t e m e n t of 19 what we t a l k e d about e a r l i e r t o d a y . 20 MR. PEATHERSTONE: W e l l , a l l r i g h t . But a l l 21 he a sked i s d i d t h a t happen, and i f i t * s a m i s s t a t e m e n t , 22 then t h e answer i s n o. A. No. 24 Q. (by Mr. B r a d le y ) Okay. Was t h e r e a review 25 made of p r e v i o u s m e d i c a l l i t e r a t u r e of c h l o r a c n e by Mr. - 112 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Benignus or Mr. Papageorge p r io r to 1975? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Did Mr. Benig nus or Mr. Papageorge e v e r make a 4 review of any l i t e r a t u r e regarding chloracn e? 5 MR. FEATHERSTONE: O b j e c t i o n . C a l l s f o r 6 speculation. 7 Q. (by Mr. B r a d le y ) Go ahead and answ e r. 8 A. I d o n ' t know. I do not b e l i e v e t h a t e i t h e r 9 Mr. Benignus or Mr. Papageorge p e r s o n a ll y reviewed th e 10 p r e v i o u s l i t e r a t u r e about c h l o r a c n e , b e c a u s e n e i t h e r of 11 them was competent so t o do. 12 Q. Did e i t h e r Mr. Benig nus or Mr. Papageorge 13 in form you t h a t a review had been made of p r e v i o u s m e d i c a l 14 l i t e r a t u r e on c h l o r a c n e ? 15 A. Mr. Benignus or Mr. P a p a g e o r g e , as p a r t o f my 16 e d u c a t i o n when I came on b o a r d , t o l d me what t h e i r l a t e s t 17 t h i n k i n g was about c h l o r a c n e and PCBs. 18 Q. Did they t e l l you -- 19 A. The b a s i s o f t h a t I do not know. 20 Q. Did t h e y t e l l you t h a t a review had been made 21 of p r e v i o u s m e d i c a l l i t e r a t u r e on c h l o r a c n e ? 22 A. I b e l i e v e somebody t o l d me t h a t t h e i n f o r m a 23 t i o n had been r e v i e w e d . 24 Q. Did somebody t e l l you t h a t , as a r e s u l t of the 25 r e v i e w , t h a t they d eterm ined subsequ ent g e n e r a t i o n o f - 113 CONCANNON JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 m edical in f o r m a t io n i n d i c a t e d t h a t those symptoms t h a t were 2 reported in the t h i r t i e s and f o r t i e s did not r e la te 3 s p e c i f i c a l l y to PCBs? 4 Yes 3 Q. Why t h e n , Mr. Wood, would you i n P l a i n t i f f s 6 Exhibit 358, item twelve, regarding question ten of E xh ibit 7 357, w rite, "Cloracne years ago" in re la tio n to a question 8 th a t asked fo r a d e s c r ip t io n of any adverse h e a lt h or 9 e n v ir o n m e n ta l e f f e c t s which you know or b e l i e v e t o have 10 r e s u l t e d from t h e i n t r o d u c t i o n o f PCB compounds or m i x t u r e s 11 i n t o t h e e nvironm e nt? 12 A. I r r e s p e c t i v e of whether I b e l i e v e d c h i o r a c n e 13 was a s s o c i a t e d w ith t h e use o f PCBs p r e v i o u s l y , t h e r e i s no 14 q u e s t i o n t h a t t h e r e was a r e c o r d which s t r e t c h e d f o r y e a r s 15 of p e o p le b e l i e v i n g and p e o p l e m i s s t a t i n g c a u s a l c o n n e c 16 t i o n s between c h i o r a c n e and PCBs. And i t was c l e a r t o me 17 t h a t as we respond t o t h i s p a r t i c u l a r EPA q u e s t i o n n a i r e and 18 as o t h e r p e o p le respond t o t h i s EPA q u e s t i o n n a i r e , t h a t 19 t h e r e was a p o t e n t i a l f o r o l d mythology to renew i t s e l f . 20 Q. P a r t o f t h e r e a s o n you d e s c r i b e d q u e s t i o n t e n 21 as a dangerous q u e s t i o n i s b e c a u s e you b e l i e v e d i t would 22 r e q u i r e Monsanto t o t e l l t h a t i t knew t h a t t h e r e were 23 problems a s s o c i a t e d w i t h PCBs t h a t i t hadn' t in fo r m e d t h e 24 public about? is n ' t that true? 25 A. NO. - 114 CONCANNON JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED .TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. Mr. Wood, I 'm g o i n g t o show you P l a i n t i f f ' s 2 E x h i b i t 1675. Have you -- L e t me ask i t t h i s way: Are you 3 f a m i l i a r w i t h a 1575 or 1977 r e p o r t from NIOSH on PCBs? 4 A. I r e c a l l t h a t t h e r e was a r e p o r t from NIOSH in 5 t h a t s o r t of time frame on PCBs. 6 Q. Do you r e c a l l whether you r ev iew e d t h e NIOSH 7 r e p o r t t h a t was gen e ra te d sometime around *75 to '7 7 ? 8 A. I t would have been review ed by t h e department 9 w ithin Monsanto that should review such data to give i t 10 t h e i r -- who were t e c h n i c a l l y equ ipp ed t o so r e v i e w , and 11 they would t h e n -- n o r m a lly they would e i t h e r d i s c u s s w i t h 12 th e b u s i n e s s group or w r i t e t o t h e b u s i n e s s group t e l l i n g 13 us what t h e y b e l i e v e d t h e -- was an a p p r o p r i a t e e x e c u t i v e 14 summary of drawing our a t t e n t i o n t o what th e y f e l t were t h e 15 c r i t i c a l p u b l i c i s s u e s s u r r o u n d i n g such a document. 16 Q. Perhaps my q u e s t i o n w a s n ' t c l e a r . My q u e s t i o n 17 was, do you e v e r r e c a l l r e v i e w i n g a -- W e l l , l e t me ask i t 18 t h i s way: I'ra now g o in g t o show you P l a i n t i f f ' s E x h i b i t 19 1373 and a s k you whether you have ever seen t h a t document 20 b e f o r e . 21 A. No. 22 Q. I s t h i s t h e r e p o r t -- W e l l , would you know 23 whether t h i s i s t h e r e p o r t of NIOSH t h a t you were r e f e r r i n g 24 to a s b e i n g g e n e r a t e d i n t h e 1975 - t o - l 977 t im e fra m e? And 25 I r e f e r you t o t h e r e f e r e n c e j u s t above t h e d a t e a t t h e - 115 CONCAHNON JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 bottom of the document. 2 A. I know t h a t NIOSH p u b l i s h e d a r e p o r t i n t h a t 3 time frame. Whether t h i s p a r t i c u l a r document t h a t I'm 4 l o o k i n g a t , which i s a document which has an HEW cover but 5 with a NIOSH subhead down h e r e -- s i n c e I know t h a t t h e 6 NIOSH document p u b l i s h e d a t t h a t tim e r e l a t e d t o e x p o s u r e 7 to PCBs, I surmise th a t t h i s i s the document to which th a t 8 was r e f e r r i n g . 9 Q. A l l r i g h t . Mr. Wood, I 'm g o i n g t o r e p r e s e n t 10 t o you t h a t P l a i n t i f f ' s E x h i b i t 1675 i s a copy of t h e 11 r e f e r e n c e s e c t i o n ou t of 1373. And i f you w ou ld, f o r a 12 moment, I ' d l i k e you t o compare t h e p a ge s t o make s u r e t h a t 13 ray r e p r e s e n t a t i o n i s a c c u r a t e . 14 MR. FEATHERSTONE: W e l l , do we need t o do 15 t h a t , or can we j u s t sim p ly assume t h a t your r e p r e s e n t a t i o n 16 i s a c c u r a t e ? I s t h a t a c c e p t a b l e t o you? I t ' s a c c e p t a b l e 17 t o u s . 18 MR. BRADLEY: Y e s . T h a t ' s f i n e . I S Nov/, my q u e s t i o n , Mr. Wood, i s , which of t h e 20 r e f e r e n c e s l i s t e d on P l a i n t i f f ' s E x h i b i t 1675 g i v e you -- 21 A. That* s t h i s r e f e r e n c e ? 22 Q. (by Mr. B r a d le y ) Y e s . 23 A. 1675? 24 Q. I ' m g o in g t o s t a r t th e q u e s t i o n a l l over 25 a g a i n . Which of t h e r e f e r e n c e s l i s t e d on P l a i n t i f f ' s - 116 CONCANNON JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 E x h i b i t 1675 r e l a t e to any adverse h e a l t h or environmental 2 a f f e c t s which you know or b e l i e v e t o have r e s u l t e d from t h e 3 i n t r o d u c t i o n of PCB compounds or m i x t u r e s i n t o t h e e n v i r o n 4 ment -- 5 MR. FEATHERSTONE: O b j e c t t o t h e q u e s t i o n . 6 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) -- t h a t p r e c e d e s O cto b e r 17, 7 1975? 8 And I assume you o b j e c t t o t h a t , as w e l l . 9 MR. FEATHERSTONE: I do. I o b j e c t t o t h e form 10 and o b j e c t t o t h e h a r a s s i n g n a t u r e of t h e q u e s t i o n and 11 o b j e c t t o t h e form of t h e q u e s t i o n . 12 THE WITNESS: A n y t h in g e l s e ? 13 MR. FEATHERSTONE: W e l l , 1*11 t h i n k abou t i t 14 w h il e you t r y to f i g u r e out how y o u ' d ever answer a q u e s 15 t i o n l i k e t h a t . 16 THE WITNESS: W e l l , I c a n ' t answer a q u e s t i o n 17 l i k e t h a t . 18 Q. (by Mr. B r a d le y ) Do you know whether any of 19 t h e r e f e r e n c e s l i s t e d on P l a i n t i f f ' s E x h i b i t 1675 r e l a t e to 20 a d v e r se h e a l t h or e n v ir o n m e n t a l e f f e c t s a l l e g e d t o have 21 r e s u l t e d from t h e i n t r o d u c t i o n o f PCB compounds or m i x t u r e s 22 i n t o t h e environm ent? 23 A. To answer t h a t q u e s t i o n we' re g o i n g t o have to 24 go t h r o u g h t h i s one by one, and i f I can r e c a l l h a v i n g seen 25 the p a r t i c u l a r s t u d y , th e n I ' l l have t o make a judgment as - 117 CONCANNON JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 t o whether I have any comment about any p o t e n t i a l h a z a r d . 2 I f we* re g o in g t o do t h a t , we* d b e t t e r g e t t o i t . 3 MR. FEATHERSTONE: O f f t h e r e c o r d . 4 (Thereupon, a d i s c u s s i o n was h a d .) 5 Q. (by Mr. B radley) Have you completed your 6 review of the re fe re n c e s on P l a i n t i f f ' s E x h ib it 1675? 7 A. Yes, I have. 8 Q. Would you answer my q u e s t i o n now? 9 A. None of t h e s e r e f e r e n c e s l e a d s me t o change my 10 c o n c l u s i o n about t h e a d v e r s e h e a l t h q u e s t i o n s on human 11 b e i n g s r e s u l t i n g from t h e i n t r o d u c t i o n of PCB compounds or 12 m i x t u r e s i n t o t h e e n v ir o n m e n t. 13 As a c l a r i f i c a t i o n o f an e a r l i e r answer, I am 14 -- t h a t comment i s r e s t r i c t e d t o a d v e r s e h e a l t h e f f e c t s 15 r e s u l t i n g from t h e i n t r o d u c t i o n o f PCBs i n t o t h e e n v i r o n 16 ment . 17 Q. And how -- Do any of t h e r e f e r e n c e s on E x h i b i t 18 1675 -- J u s t a moment. 19 I ' m g o i n g t o s t o p t h a t q u e s t i o n and go back 20 and ask you t o re a d t h e q u e s t i o n t h a t h e ' s r e s p o n d in g t o 21 t h a t I p o s t e d t o him j u s t b e f o r e t h e b r e a k . 22 (Thereupon, t h e r e p o r t e r read back t h e q u e s t i o n . ) 23 Q. (by Mr. B ra d le y ) Mr. Wood, I a p p r e c i a t e t h e 24 answer you have g i v e n me, and t h a t p a r t i a l l y answers my 25 q u e s t i o n . Are t h e r e any r e f e r e n c e s on P l a i n t i f f s E x h i b i t - 118 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 1675 t h a t r e l a t e s t o any adverse environm ental e f f e c t which Ao. may have r e s u l t e d from t h e i n t r o d u c t i o n o f PCB expounds or 3 mixtures into the environment? 4 A. I have not reviewed t h i s l i s t of r e f e r e n c e on 5 1675 from the t o t a l view p oin t of e f f e c t on the environm ent. 6 Monsanto conceded v e r y e a r l y on i n our d e l i b e r a t i o n s on PCB 7 t h a t PCB was p r e s e n t i n t h e e n v ir o n m e n t . I 'm t r y i n g t o 8 wend my way through t h i s o n e . I f i t ' s n o t r e s p o n s i v e , then S s t o p me. 10 MR. FEATHERSTONE: L e t ' s go o f f t h e r e c o r d f o r 11 a s e co n d , and maybe we can come -- 12 MR. BRADLEY: Okay. 13 (Thereupon, a s h o r t c o l l o q u y was h a d .) 14 Q. (by Mr. B r a d le y ) Back on t h e r e c o r d . L e t me 15 ask i t t h i s way, Mr. Wood: I n O c t o b e r , 1375 were t h e r e 16 a d v e r s e e n v ir o n m e n t a l e f f e c t s which you knew or b e l i e v e d t o 17 have r e s u l t e d from t h e i n t r o d u c t i o n o f PCB compounds or 18 m ix tu r e s i n t o th e environm ent? 13 A. There was t h e a d v e r s e a f f e c t of t h e r e b e i n g 20 p r e s e n t i n t h e environment u nbiod e g ra d e d s y n t h e t i c m a t e r i a l 21 which was c a p a b l e of b i o m a g n i f i c a t i o n i n f o o d c h a i n s . I 22 c o n s i d e r t h a t an a d v e r s e a f f e c t . 23 Q. Any o t h e r a d ve rse e f f e c t s , a d v e r s e e n v i r o n 24 mental e f f e c t s ? 25 MR. FEATHERSTONE: T h a t t h e w i t n e s s knew - 119 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 a bo ut ? 2 Q. (by Mr. B r a d le y ) T h a t you knew or b e l i e v e d t o 3 have r e s u l t e d from t h e i n t r o d u c t i o n o f PCB compounds or 4 mixtures into the environment in 1975. 5 A. At t h a t s t a g e my knowledge of t h e a d v e r s e 6 environm ental e f f e c t s was p resence and th e b i o r e f r a c t o r y 7 n a tu re of the m a t e r i a l t h a t was p r e s e n t . 8 Q. Do you now have i n f r o n t of you P l a i n t i f f ' s 9 E x h ib it 1475? 10 A. Y e s . I s t h a t an e x h i b i t t h a t you have se en 11 b e f o r e ? 12 A. Y e s , i t i s . 13 Q. I s t h i s a l e t t e r from D o u gla s Hardy t o y o u , 14 among o t h e r s , d a t e d J a n u a r y 12, 1967? 15 A. Y e s . 16 Q. I s t h e s u b j e c t m a tte r " A r o c i o r - Sweden"? 17 A. Y e s . 18 Q. I s t h i s a t r u e and a c c u r a t e copy of t h e l e t t e r 19 w r i t t e n t o you and o t h e r s by Douglas Hardy on t h a t d a t e ? 20 A. Y e s . 21 Q. I s t h i s adocument t h a t youm a i n t a i n e d i n your 22 f i l e s a t Monsanto a s p a r t o f M o n s a n to 's r e g u l a r l y - c o n d u c t e d OO b u s i n e s s ? 24 A. Y e s . 25 Q. I s t h a t t h e Monsantol e t t e r h e a d i n t h e to p - 120 CONCANNON JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRAMSCRIPTIOH 1 left-hand portion of that exhibit? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Would you now put i n f r o n t o f you P l a i n t i f f ' s 4 E x h ib it 1498? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q I s your name l i s t e d on t h e t o p r i g h t - h a n d 7 c o r n e r as someone who r e c e i v e d a carbon copy of t h i s ? 8 A. It is . 9 Q. I s t h i s a document you have s een b e f o r e t o d a y ? 10 A. Y e s . 11 Q. And i s t h i s a memo w r i t t e n by R. A. B a x t e r to 12 R. E. K e l l e r d a te d A u gu st 1 9 t h , 1975? 13 A. Y e s , i t i s . 14 Q. And i s t h i s a t r u e and a c c u r a t e copy of t h e 15 l e t t e r t h a t you r e c e i v e d a copy of from R. A B a x t e r t o R. 16 E. K e l l e r d a te d Au gu st 1 9 t h , 1975? 17 A* I t i s , e x c e p t I was no t p r e v i o u s l y p r i v y to 1 8 t h e comment on t h i s p a r t i c u l a r copy H. S . Bergen made. 19 Q. Pardon me? 20 A. I had n o t p r e v i o u s l y seen t h e a d d i t i o n a l hand21 w r i t t e n comment t h a t was made by somebody who r e c e i v e d t h i s 22 copy o th e r th a n m y s e l f . 23 Q. You m ention t h e name H. S . B e rg e n . Does i t 24 appear to be h i s h a n d w r i t i n g ? 25 A. I c a n ' t t e l l whether t h a t i s Howard* s copy or - 121 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 whether t h i s i s somebody e l s e ' s ? I c a n ' t make out t h e 2 s ig n a t u r e or the i n i t i a l i n g of the comment. 3 Q. Can you make out what t h e comment i s ? 4 A. Mo. 5 q ,,, Does i t appear t o you t o say European 6 something? 7 A. Again, speculating, I read i t as "European 8 t r i p , " but 9 Q. Okay. And i s t h i s a memo t h a t you m a i n t a i n e d 10 in your f i l e s a t Monsanto as p a r t of M onsanto's r e g u l a r l y 11 co n d u cte d b u s i n e s s ? 12 A. Y e s . 13 Q. And t h i s a l s o ha s t h e Monsanto l e t t e r h e a d i n 14 t h e to p l e f t - h a n d c o r n e r ? 15 A. Y e s , i t d o e s . 16 Q. Would you now examine E x h i b i t 1425? 17 A. Y e s . 18 Q. I s t h i s a copy of a memo you w rote t o W. B. 19 Papageorge on A u gu st 29, 1975, r e g a r d i n g an A u gu st 2 9 , '75 20 te le p h o n e c a l l ? 21 A. Y e s , i t i s . 22 Q. Did you w r i t e t h i s memorandum s h o r t l y a f t e r 23 you r e c e i v e d t h e t e l e p h o n e c a l l ? 24 A. Y e s , I d i d . 25 Q. I s t h i s a t r u e and a c c u r a t e copy of the memo - 122 CONCANNON JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 you s e n t t o W. B. Papageorge d a te d August 2 9 , 1975? 2 A. Yes, i t i s . 3 Q. Did you m a in ta in a copy of t h i s e x h i b i t in 4 your f i l e s a t Monsanto as part of i t s regu larly -co n d u cted 5 business? 6 A. Yes, I did. 7 Q. Would you now l o o k a t E x h i b i t 1117? 8 A. I have i t . 9 Q. On t h e t o p r i g h t - h a n d p o r t i o n o f t h a t i t i n d i 10 c a te s you re c e iv e d a carbon copy of t h i s ; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ? 11 A. That i s c o r r e c t . 12 Q. And t h i s i s a l e t t e r from R. E. K e l l e r t o R. 13 B a x t e r d a t e d August 1 5 t h , 1975 on t h e s u b j e c t of c h l o r i 14 n a te d d i b e n z o f u r a n s ? 15 A. Y e s . 16 Q. What does t h e LLN hyphen 5045 i n d i c a t e under 17 R. B a x t e r ' s name? 18 A. At t h a t s t a g e , our European T e c h n i c a l 19 L a b o r a t o r y had moved from Ruabon i n North W a le s , E n g l a n d , 20 t o L ouvain-La-Neuve, B e lg iu m , and t h e m a il zone r e l a t i v e t o 21 t h a t l o c a t i o n was 5045. 22 Q. T h e r e ' s a l s o some h a n d w r i t i n g on i t which 23 ap pe a rs t o say "European t r i p f i l e f o l d e r , p i s , " which I 24 assume means " p l e a s e . " 25 A. T h a t ' s my a s s u m p t io n . I t ' s not my h a n d w r i t - - 123 CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 ing. 2 Q. A l l r i g h t . And o t h e r than t h e h a n d w r i t i n g , i s 3 t h is a true and accurate copy of the l e t t e r th a t you 4 received a copy o f , dated August 15, '7 5 , from R. E. K e lle r 5 to R. Baxter? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And i s t h i s a document t h a t you m a in ta in e d i n 8 your f i l e s a t Monsanto as p a rt of Monsanto* s r e g u l a r l y - 9 conducted business? 10 A. Y e s . 11 Q. Does t h i s a l s o have Monsanto* s l e t t e r h e a d on 12 t h e to p l e f t - h a n d p o r t i o n o f t h e e x h i b i t ? 13 A. Y e s , i t d o e s . 14 Q 15 1242 . 16 A. I now ask you t o l o o k a t P l a i n t i f f ' s E x h i b i t Okay. ' - 17 Q. T h i s document i n d i c a t e s t h a t you were a 18 r e c i p i e n t of t h i s e x h i b i t w ith an a tta ch m e n t from G. to you 19 and a v a r i e t y of o t h e r s ? i s t h a t c o r r e c t ? 20 A. Y e s . 21 Q. And i t ' s d a t e d February 10 , 1975? 22 A. Y e s , i t i s . riUi ^J Q. S u b j e c t m a t t e r i s " W e s t i n g h o u s e "? 24 A. Y e s , i t i s . 25 Q. I t s a y s , " A t t a c h e d i s a x e ro x copy of th e - 124 - CONCANNON & JAEGER COMPUTER AIkD TRAM SCRIPT IOK 1 Westinghouse C o d i c i l No. J which i s p a r t of the c o n t r a c t " ? 2 - -"W 3 Q. Who i s G . ? j 4 A. I think this is related to Gladys Burgos in 5 the New York o f f i c e s wip i s t h e "from" i n t h i s p a r t i c u l a r 6 memo. 7 Q. And i s tfcis a t r u e and a c c u r a t e copy of th e 8 // l e t t e r she sent to ycli and o th e r s dated February 10, 1975? 9 / A. I believe so. 10 Q. Okay, /is t h i s a document you m a i n t a i n e d i n 11 your the f i l e s a t Mjionsanto a s p a r t of i t s r e g u l a r l y - 12 con du cted b u s i n e s s ? 13 A. C. Paton i s a s t e r i s k e d , r e c e i v i n g t h e o r i g i n a l 14 copy; Ray Ford r e c e i v e d an o r i g i n a l carbon c o p y ; and t h e 15 way t h a t t h e c o n t r a c t f i l e s were m a i n t a i n e d , c e r t a i n l y 16 t h o s e f i l e s would have been m a i n t a i n e d . I ' m not s u r e t h a t 17 I would have kept my copy of t h i s p a r t i c u l a r document on 18 f i l e because i t would have been p a r t of t h e c o r p o r a t e 19 c o n t r a c t f i l e . 20 Q. But Monsanto would have r e t a i n e d a copy? 21 A. Y e s . 22 Q. Okay. And I ' l l ask you t o l o o k a t P l a i n t i f f ' s 23 E x h i b i t 1419. Have you r eview ed i t ? 24 A. Y e s . 25 Q. I s t h i s a copy of a l e t t e r fromyou t o Mike - 125 - CONCANNON S JAEGER