Document V3demYwpen6zmgyZ3rx5yEZmq

5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin STATE OF ILLINOIS IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE ELEVENTH JUDICIAL 2 CIRCUIT COUNTY OF McLEAN 3 4 IOWELL GWIN, Special ) Administrator of the ) 5 Estates of Donald Gwin ) and Dorothy Gwin, ) 6 deceased and ) JUDY GRAMMER, ) 7] Plaintiffs, ) 3 vs. ) ) No. 03 L 207 9] PNEUMO ABEX CORPORATION, ) 10 et al., ) ] 11 Defendants. ) 12 13 The 30(B) (6) deposition of CARLO F. MARTINO, 14 taken in the above-entitled case, before Mary M. 15 Lewis, CSR, RPR, in and for the County of Cook and 16 State of Illinois, on the 25th day of May, 2005, at 17 9:30 a.ra., at 190 South LaSalle Street, Chicago, 18 Illinois, pursuant to notice. 19 20 21 22 23 24 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin INDEX 2 WITNESS 3 CARLO F. MARTINO 4 EXAMINED BY 5 Mr. Kelly 6 Ms. Clark 7 8 9 10 11 12 EXHIBITS (Attached) 13 UCC DEPOSITION 14 No. 1 15 No. 2 16 No. 3 17 No. 4 13 No. 5 15 No. 6 20 No. 7 21 No. 3 22 No. 9 23 24 PAGE 4, 102 100 PAGE 4 54 57 57 63 69 73 77 83 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 2 PRESENT: 3 WALKER WYLDER, LTD. By MR. ANDREW J. KELLY 4 207 West Jefferson Bloomington, Illinois 61701 5 (309)828-5044 6 appeared on behalf of the plaintiffs; 7 MAYER, BROWN, ROWE MAW By MS. KATHERINE CLARK 3 190 South LaSalle Street Chicago, Illinois 60603 9 (312)782-0600 10 appeared on behalf of the witness and Union Carbide; 11 O'CONNELL ASSOCIATES, P.C. 12 By MR. MARK I. TIVIN 645 Tollgate Road, Suite 220 13 Elgin, Illinois 60123 (847)741-4603 14 appeared on behalf of John Crane; 15 SEGAL McCAMBRIDGE SINGER MAHONEY 16 By MR. JOHN J. KOHNKE One IBM Plaza, 330 North Wabash Avenue, Suite 200 17 Chicago, Illinois 60611 (312)645-7800 18 appeared on behalf of Garlock Sealing. 19 20 21 22 23 24 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 (UCC Deposition Exhibit No. 1 was 2 marked for identification.) 3 CARLO F. MARTINO, 4 being first duly sworn, was examined and testified 5 as follows: 6 EXAMINATION 7 BY MR. KELLY: 8 Q Can you please state your full name. 9 A Carlo, C-a-r-l-o, F., Martino, 10 M-a-r-t-i-n-o. 11 MR. KELLY: And for the record.I'll state 12 this is the discovery deposition of Union 13 Carbide Corporation taken pursuant to notice 14 and all applicable statutes and court rules for 15 the State of Illinois. There's no 16 stipulations. 17 I'll ask counsel for Union Carbide, I 18 know I did receive a letter yesterday from 19 Tobin Taylor, but my understanding is that 20 Mr. Martino is being tendered with respect to 21 less than all of the matters on the Rule 206 22 notice; is that correct? 23 MS. CLARK: That is correct. 24 MR. KELLY: And which paragraphs ishe 2 4 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 going to be testifying to today? 2 MS. CLARK: Mr. Martino is going to 3 testify about Category 10, 18, 19, 20, 22, 23 4 and 27. There*s a limitation with respect to 5 all of those categories in that he*s only going 6 to be testifying about the phenolic resin business. 8 As you know. Union Carbide is a large 9 corporation with many other products and some 10 of the requests could be read much more broadly 11 than just the phenolic resin business. He*s 12 only here to talk about that aspect of the 13 business and also the requests, for example, 14 19, 20, 22, 23, 27, which say to GE and/or 15 specifically the GE plant in Bloomington, 16 Illinois, he*s going to be addressing those 17 with respect to the GE plant in Bloomington, 18 not GE as a whole. 19 MR. KELLY: Is there any other individual 20 that will be testifying today in response to 21 the other categories in the notice? 22 MS. CLARK: Not today, no. 23 MR. KELLY: And when will GE produce 24 further individuals to testify as to those 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 remaining matters? 2 MS. CLARK: When will Union Carbide 3 produce? 4 MR. KELLY: Yes. 5 MS. CLARK: That's something that we will 6 have to discuss with you. Counsel. 7 MR. KELLY: Okay. 8 Q Mr. Martino, where do you live? 9 A Branchburg, New Jersey. 10 Q And did you just come in for this 11 deposition today? 12 A Yes -- well, I didn't come in today but I 13 came in for this deposition. 14 Q Have you given depositions before on 15 behalf of Union Carbide in asbestos litigation? 16 A Yes. 17 Q On how many occasions have you done that? 18 A Oh, about seven or eight. 19 Q When was the most recent time that you did 20 so? 21 A Last December. 22 Q Do you remember where that was? 23 A Here. 24 Q When was the first time that you testified 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 for Union Carbide in an asbestos litigation case? 2 A I think it was probably 2001. 3 Q Are you currently employed by 4 Union Carbide? 5 A No, I am not. 6 Q Are you retired? 7 A Yes. 8 Q How long have you been retired? 9 A Nine years. 10 Q So that would be 1996? 11 A 1996, yes. 12 Q And how were you first contacted in order 13 to give the deposition testimony that you gave for 14 Union Carbide back in 2001? 15 A I was contacted by Jonathan Glasser who 16 worked for another law firm, Kelley Drye I think it 17 was. 13 Q And since that time you've testified on I 19 think you said on seven to eight different 20 occasions? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Have any of those particular times that 23 you've given testimony, have they ever been at trial 24 or they've just been depositions like today? 5 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 A There have been trials, yes. 2 Q How many trials have you testified in? 3 A Two. 4 Q And is that two times that you've 5 testified in addition to the seven and eight 6 depositions? 7 A Yes. 8 Q So about a total of ten times roughly is 9 the times that you've actually testified in asbestos 10 litigation whether deposition or trial? 11 A Yes. 12 Q And on each of those ten occasions you 13 were tendered as a witness by Union Carbide? 14 MS. CLARK: Objection, calls for a legal 15 conclusion. 16 A Well, by attorneys representing 17 Union Carbide. 13 BY MR. KELLY: 19 Q And in each of those occasions was your 20 testimony related to the topic of phenolic resin 21 products? 22 A No, phenolic molding material products. 23 Let me clarify that, phenolic resins did come into 24 the discussions once we got started so I don't know 6 7 8 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 how you want to interpret that. 2 Q Are you aware that in addition to, and 3 we'll just call them phenolic molding materials at 4 this point, are you familiar with the fact that 5 Union Carbide also mined a type of asbestos in 6 addition to marketing and manufacturing the molding 7 materials? 8 A Yes. 9 Q Has your testimony ever involved any 10 discussions with respect to the asbestos mining 11 business of Union Carbide? 12 A Only insofar as whether we used some of 13 that asbestos in the molding materials. 14 Q Through your career at Union Carbide did 15 you ever have an opportunity to go to the location 16 or locations where Union Carbide mined its asbestos? 17 A No. 18 Q Do you even know where that occurred? 19 A Only the general location, out west. 20 Q And do you know that as King City, 31 California? 32 A I didn't know the specific place. 23 Q And did you ever have any day-to-day 24 contact when you were an employee of Union Carbide 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 with people that worked out in the California west 2 coast asbestos raining operation? 3 A No. 4 Q When did you first start working for 5 Union Carbide? 6 A 1948. 7 Q And in what capacity, what was your job 8 title at that time? 9 A Trainee. 10 Q And where were you based? 11 A Bound Brook, New Jersey. 12 Q And was the entity that you worked for in 13 Bound Brook was that Union Carbide Chemicals and 14 Plastics Corporation? 15 A At that time it was known as the Bakelite 16 Division of Union Carbide. 17 Q And what were you a trainee in when you 18 first started in 1943? 19 A I started in the production department. 20 Q And if you could explain to me. 31 Bound Brook was the manufacturing processing 32 location where molding materials were made; is that 23 correct? 24 A That's the location. More than just 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 molding materials were made there, there were other 2 thermoplastics as well. 3 Q And were there other locations in 4 North America where molding materials were being 5 made other than Bound Brook when you first started? 6 A In the U.S.? 7 Q In North America. 8 A In North America, yes, Canada. 9 Q Is that in Belleville? 10 A Yes, and also there was a plant in Mexico. 11 Q Was there a plant in Monterey or 12 Mexico City then? 13 A Monterey. 14 Q And as a trainee, were you involved in the 15 thermoplastics part of the business or in the 16 molding materials? 17 A At that time it was all operations in the 13 Bound Brook side, at the Bound Brook side. 10 Q What's your educational background? 20 A I have a BS in Chemical Engineering. 31 Q And did part of your duties as a trainee 22 involve applying what you learned from a chemical 23 engineering background? 24 A Yes. 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 Q Now, you said that you were working in 2 production, can you explain exactly what it was that 3 you were doing in production in *48? 4 A There was a program to train new employees 5 to eventually be supervisors in the production 6 department and it entailed going to each department 7 for a period of a number of weeks and learning 8 actually hands-on training in that area as to what 9 was being done. 10 Q This gave you an overview of basically 11 everything that was being done throughout the entire 12 facility? 13 A Yes. 14 Q When you completed your trainee work, what 15 position did you take? 16 A I wastransferred to the research and 17 development department, it was also located there. 18 Q What year wasthat? 19 A 1949. 20 Q And how long did you remain in research 21 and development? 22 A Ever since, until 1996. 23 Q What were the various positions that you 24 held in research and development over the years? 10 11 12 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 A I started as an engineer, chemical 2 engineer in polystyrene, then I was moved oh, about 3 nine years later to the polyethylene business, same 4 capacity, then I became a group supervisor for the 5 technical service activities for all the plastics 6 that we sold out of -- that we sold and had testing, 7 support of testing facilities at that site. 8 In 1960 I believe I was transferred 9 to group manager of the phenolic molding material 10 and laminating resins group and I stayed there until 11 1974, then I was transferred again to polyethylene 12 molding as a group manager and the rest were various 13 assignments in many different activities in that 14 area, licensing, blow molding and became associate 15 director in the 90's for all the molding, 16 polyethylene molding activities and pipe. 17 Q Was that the last position you held before 18 your retirement? 19 A Yes. 20 Q What were the different types of materials 21 that were being made at Bound Brook over your career 22 other than just the molding compounds at this point, 23 the phenolic molding compounds? 24 A There was a vinyl sheeting manufacturing 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 business, there was phenolic resin manufacturing, we 2 made our own formaldehyde and hexa there, phenoxy 3 resins, which are the specialty thermoplastics -- 4 Q What was that again? 5 A P-h-e-n-o-x-y. 6 -- polystyrene, there was a phenol 7 plant there and all our research and development 8 activities primarily for catalysts and development 9 of polyethylene products for polyethylene. The 10 manufacturing was done elsewhere. 11 Q You said something about formaldehyde and 12 then I think you used the word hexa; is that right? 13 A Yes. Hexa is made from formaldehyde and 14 used as a cross-linking agent for one type of 15 phenolic resin. 16 Q And is that spelled h-e-x-a? 17 A Yes, the full -- that's a short name for 18 hexamethylene tetramine. 19 Q I like hexa better. What exactly is 20 polyethylene just in laymen's terras? 21 A It's a polymer made from ethylene gas and 22 it's a very commonly used product, milk bottles, 23 dish pans, plastic pipe. Glad Wrap, wire and cable 24 jacketing. 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 Q Is there any asbestos used in the 2 manufacturing process of polyethylene? 3 A No. 4 Q The vinyl sheeting business, what was the 5 vinyl sheeting being used for, what kind of 6 applications? 7 A When it was very popular, it was a leather 8 replacement used in automobiles, upholstery. 9 Q Is there any asbestos used in that 10 production? 11 A No. 12 Q The other one you said was a phenol plant? 13 A Yes. 14 Q What exactly is that in laymen's terms? 15 A What's that? 16 Q In laymen's terms, what's a phenol plant? 17 A That's one of the chemicals that's used to 13 make the phenolformaldehyde resins, it's one of the 19 building blocks. 20 Q Is there any asbestos used in the actual 21 phenol plant? 22 A No. 23 Q And then the hexaformaldehyde, what 24 exactly :is that used for? 13 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 A Well, the formaldehyde was used to make 2 the phenolformaldehyde resins. 3 Q So basically you combine the materials 4 that you get from thephenol plant andthe 5 hexaformaldehyde inorder to create your phenolic 6 molding materials? A Well, no, hexa and formaldehyde are two 8 different products so we combine the phenol and the 9 formaldehyde to make the phenolformaldehyde resins. 10 Q And the polystyrene, is that just 11 basically plastic? 12 A Yes, it melts. 13 Q And is there any asbestos used in the 14 manufacturing of the polystyrene? 15 A No. 16 Q Now, you said before that in your mind 17 there's a difference between a phenolic resin and 18 what we commonly call a molding material, can you 19 explain that to me? 20 A The molding material is the phenolic resin 21 to which we have added fillers and colorants and 22 lubricants so the phenolic resin is actually the 23 glue that holds them all together. 24 Q And of the various fillers or binders that 14 15 16 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 you use to add to the phenolic resin, did that 2 include asbestos? 3 A Some products did, yes. 4 Q Was asbestos being used as a filler in the 5 molding materialsthat UnionCarbide was 6 manufacturing when you started in *48? A Yes. 8 Q And when was the last date that you*re 9 aware of that Union Carbide utilized asbestos as a 10 filler component of the molding materials? 11 MS. CLARK: Objection, ambiguous. 12 BY MR. KELLY: 13 Q You can stillanswer. 14 A 1974, '75. 15 Q I want to talk just about the fillers for 16 a second here. What was the purpose of using the 17 filler in addition to the resin in order to create a 18 molding material? 19 A The resin is like glass, it's brittle. 20 The filler is primarily to give it some 21 reinforcement so it doesn't break. 22 Q And in addition to asbestos, were there 23 other types of fillers that were used? 24 A Oh, yes. 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 Q And what were some of those? 2 A Wood flour, coal, talc, cotton flock, 3 mica. Those are the ones that come to mind, there 4 may be others. 5 Q Why would you choose to use one filler 6 over the other? A It would depend on the properties that the 8 customer wanted. Wood flour was the work horse that 9 gave you the strength, it was adequate for most 10 applications. If you wanted better water 11 resistance, then you would go to a mineral filler. 12 If you wanted more impact strength, you would go to 13 a cotton fiber. So it was getting a balance of 14 properties that fit an application. 15 Q And the use of the asbestos, what was the 16 quality of the asbestos that made it a good filler 17 for certain applications? 18 A Heat resistance primarily. 19 Q When you first started in '48, can you 20 give me a percentage of the number of different 21 grades of molding materials which contained 22 asbestos? 23 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, vague. 24 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 BY MR. KELLY: 2 Q You canstill answer. 3 MS. CLARK: Go ahead. 4 A In *48? 5 BY MR. KELLY: 6 Q Yes. A I don't have figures of '48, I wasn't that 8 involved in the business. 9 Q What's thefirst year that you think you 10 would have enough knowledge based on your working at 11 the Bound Brook plant to be able to define a 12 percentage of which number of the molding materials 13 contained asbestos as a filler as opposed to some 14 other type offiller? 15 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, vague. 16 Go ahead. 17 A Late 50's and I can give it to you only as 18 percentage of pounds I've been told and it's a rough 19 estimate. As best as I can tell from the records 20 that I've seen, about 20 percent or less in the late 21 50's. 22 BY MR. KELLY: 23 Q And in the late 50*s what was the source 24 of the asbestos that was being used as a filler in 17 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 the Union Carbide molding materials? 2 A Oh, we had various sources, Vermont, I 3 don't remember the full name, Carey Mines. There 4 may have been others but I don't remember them. 5 Q The two largest that you remember were 6 Carey and Vermont? A Yes. 8 Q And was the -- first of all, are you 9 familiar with different fiber types of asbestos? 10 A Yes. 11 Q And what was the fiber type of asbestos 12 that you were buying from Vermont? 13 A From Vermont we got some of the longer 14 fiber asbestos which was small volume, I think we 15 may have gotten some of the short fiber from them as 16 well. 17 Q Are you familiar with the terms amosite 18 and chrysotile and crocidolite? 19 A Yes, it was chrysotile. I usually 20 pronounce it chrysotile but I don't know if that's 21 correct or not. 22 Q I don't know if I'm right either so 23 between the two of us I think we know we're talking 24 about the same thing. 18 19 20 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 A As long as we can communicate. 2 Q And from Carey what kind of fiber type 3 were you buying from them? 4 A Short fiber chrysotile. 5 Q Is the Carey material sometimes called 6 Carey floats, have you seen that used? A Yes, yes. 8 Q And is that a term used to describe the 9 short fibers? 10 A I donTt remember the distinction between 11 the floats and the short fibers, whether there was 12 one or not. 13 Q Over the years that you worked at 14 Union Carbide, did Union Carbide start to use 15 different suppliers of asbestos within its molding 16 materials? 17 A Yes, I think we bought from Johns Manville 18 for a while also. 19 Q What years do you recall Johns Manville 20 being a supplier? 21 A It would be in the early 60's probably. 22 Q And was this again the chrysotile 23 material? 24 A Sure, yes. 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 Q Any other suppliers? 2 A There may be but I don't remember them. 3 Q Was there a time frame when Union Carbide 4 started to utilize its own asbestos, the Calidria 5 asbestos as a component of the molding materials? 6 A I was involved in having it tested and I 7 didn't approve it as a source. 8 Q When did the testing of the Calidria 9 occur? 10 A I believe it was in the mid 60's. 11 Q And you said you were involved in the 12 testing but you never approved it? 13 A Yes. It required change in the 14 formulation, too much of a change in the formulation 15 and it meant changes that a customer might see in 16 his own operation. 17 Q Did Union Carbide ever sell molding 18 materials to its customers that contained Calidria 19 asbestos? 20 A If some was made during that testing 21 period, we might have, but other than that, no. 22 Q Did Union Carbide ever sell to its 23 customers molding materials that contained amosite 24 asbestos? 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 A Not that I can recall. 2 Q Did Union Carbide ever sell to its 3 customers molding materials that contained 4 crocidolite asbestos? 5 A I looked at the records to see if Icould 6 find any evidence of that and have not been able to 7 find any so ray answer would have to be no based on 8 what I have seen. 9 Q When you first took on the responsibility 10 of testifying at Union Carbide's request in asbestos 11 litigation, did you review any documents in order to 12 be able to do so? 13 A There weren't any when I started except 14 what I had myself, which was a phenolic molding 15 material manual. 16 Q And let me just start really basic then, 17 the first time you testified back in I think you 18 said 2001, had you reviewed any documents at that 19 time other than that manual that you yourself 20 possessed? 21 A No. 22 Q And basically you were just going on your 23 own personal observations and what you learned over 24 your career, correct? 21 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 A That's right. 2 Q Did you talk to any individuals 3 specifically for the purpose of being able to 4 testify about their recollections of the molding 5 materials business at Union Carbide? 6 MS. CLARK: Can I get that back. (The question was read.) 8 MS. CLARK: I'm just going to object as 9 vague and ambiguous. You can answer. 10 A I have -- I did, whether it wasjust 11 before that one or not, I don't recall. 12 BY MR. KELLY: 13 Q At some point or another you did have some 14 discussions with somepeople? 15 A Yes. 16 Q And that was mainly just to sort of give 17 yourself the most information you possibly could, 18 correct? 19 A Yes. 20 Q Who were the individuals that youspoke to 21 about the molding business? 22 A People whohad worked for me, Tony O'Livo, 23 Lou Fishburg, George Ealer, Burt Krevsky, 24 K-r-e-v-s-k-y, Doug Neal, Don Gould. This is over a 22 23 24 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 period of time. 2 Q Sure. The individuals you named you spoke 3 with either just before the time you testified in 4 2001 or since then, correct? 5 A Yes. 6 Q And what kind of position did Tony O'Livo 7 hold? 8 A He was a product engineer in my group when 9 I had the phenolic molding material responsibility. 10 Q He's someone that had worked at 11 Bound Brook? 12 A Yes. 13 Q And what kind of information did he 14 provide you that you rely on for your testimony? 15 MS. CLARK: Object to form. 16 A Refreshing ray memory on product numbers. 17 BY MR. KELLY: 18 Q What about Lou Fishburg, what was his 19 position? 20 A He was a product engineer also. 31 Q And what information did he provide to 32 you? 23 A Same, trying to identify which products we 24 had put asbestos in and which we did not. 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 Q What about George Ealer? 2 A Same. 3 Q And Burt Krevsky? 4 A He was no longer with the company but he 5 happened to have some old plastic encyclopedias 6 which were helpful in refreshing my memory of what 7 happened in the 60*s. 8 Q When he was with the company, what 9 position did he hold? 10 A He had worked in the phenolic molding 11 material business in R$D in the 50's. 12 Q What about Doug Neal? 13 A He did a lot of the testing, lab testing 14 for asbestos in the air. 15 Q What was his position at Union Carbide? 16 A I don't recall his exact title but he was 17 associated with the safety organization, safety 18 health and environmental protection. 19 Q And the testing that he did for asbestos 20 in the air, was that in the actual air that was 31 contained within the buildings that made up the 32 Bound Brook facility? 23 A Yes. 24 Q What about Don Gould? 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 A He was in the packaging area. 2 Q And what information did he provide to 3 you? 4 A I was interested in finding out when we 5 started labeling bags and what we put on them, 6 warning labels. 7 Q And what information did you learn about 8 warning labels from Don? 9 A Approximate dates. 10 Q And what are those? 11 A Well, I've since looked into the records 12 and gotten exact dates. 13 Q Well, let's talk about the documents you 14 looked at, first of all. Sometime after 2001 you've 15 reviewed some corporate documents at Union Carbide, 16 correct? 17 A I gradually became aware -- well, some 13 were found, in fact, quite a few were found later 10 that year, I didn't have direct access to them. 20 Q And at some point were you given access to 31 those documents? 22 A To some, yes. 23 Q And first of all, do you know where those 24 particular documents were found? 25 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 A Where they were found, no, I wasn't 2 involved in that. 3 Q Do you know if they were found at 4 Bound Brook or at some other location? 5 A I think some were found at Bound Brook. 6 Q Do you know any other locations where 7 those or at least some of those documents were 8 found? 9 A We had a facility inVermontwhere a lot 10 of old documents were stored, how many came from 11 there I don't know. 12 Q And since that initial time that you 13 reviewed some documents, have you seen additional 14 documents from the company with respect to the 15 molding operation? 16 A Yes. 17 Q And if you couldquantify, how many 13 documents or boxes of documents do you think you've 19 reviewed over the years with respect to 20 Union Carbide's molding business? 21 A I've seen most of them at depositions. I 22 would guess -- you know, people have come in with 23 boxes full of them, a half a dozen boxes probably. 24 I didn't review them in detail but that's how many 26 27 28 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 they were going through. 2 Q Did you review any documents in 3 preparation for your deposition today? 4 A Did they? 5 Q Did you review any documents in 6 preparation for your deposition today? 7 A Some to refresh my memory, yes. 8 Q And were some of those corporate type 9 documents with respect to the molding operation? 10 A Yes. 11 Q Did you also review any sales records? 12 A Yes. 13 Q Any other types of documents that you saw? 14 A Just some general correspondence. 15 Q Were all of the documents that you had 16 reviewed. and setting aside at this point the sales 17 records. were they documents you had seen before in IS the past? 19 A Many were, yes. 20 Q The asbestos that was used in the molding 21 compounds as a filler, was that a free-fiber 22 asbestos as opposed to the palletized form like some 23 of the Calidria? 24 A Yes, it was free fiber. 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 Q And how was it that the asbestos arrived 2 at the Bound Brook facility, did it come by rail or 3 by truck, how did it get there? 4 A I don't know whether it was by rail or 5 truck, how it was delivered, it was not in bulk. 6 Q Was there a particular part of the 7 Bound Brook facility where items such as asbestos 8 were received into the facility? 9 A Yes. 10 Q And once the asbestos was taken into the 11 facility, was there a particular part of the plant 12 where the asbestos was used in the phenolic molding 13 material operations? 14 A Yes. 15 Q And were there different buildings that 16 made up Bound Brook or how exactly did you identify 17 where it was that the asbestos was going to be used? 18 A Thereweredifferent buildings that were 19 identified to manufacture particular products. We 20 had a phenolic molding material department that was 21 set up to handle fillers. 22 Q So theasbestos went to thephenolic 23 molding department? 24 A Yes. 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 Q Now, we already talked about how the 2 phenol and the formaldehyde were combined together 3 after being produced in their ownseparate 4 locations, correct? 5 A Yes. 6 Q And then the end product of that is what's 7 called phenolformaldehyde? 8 A Yes, phenolformaldehyde resin. 9 Q I'm sorry. The phenolformaldehyde resin 10 and then the filler, whether it be asbestos or some 11 other material, found its way tothe phenolic 12 molding department, correct? 13 A Yes. 14 Q How was it thatyou were able tointroduce 15 the two materials together, can you explain to me 16 the manufacturing process of combining those two 17 materials to create a final molding compound? 18 A Well, the process was spread out over a 19 three-story building. The top floor is where the 20 pulverized phenolic resin was introduced and also 21 the fillers and lubricants and colorants and 22 cross-linking agents, these are all powders, into a 23 ribbon blender and then it was fed by gravity to hot 24 rolls where the blended mixture would be -- well. 29 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 the resin would melt and would coat everything. 2 There was mixing action in the rolls. 3 It would then be taken off as a 4 sheet, go up into another set of rolls where the 5 same thing would happen again, then it would come 6 off in a sheet and then go up into a rough grinder 7 and then to a fine grinder and then a set of screens 8 and a black or brown, dark brown sand-like product 9 would end up being -- that had been screened to 10 fines and coarse would end up going into bags, drums 11 or gaylords. 12 Q So you started with a resin and then the 13 fiber, whether it be asbestos or cotton or whatever 14 it is, you would combine them together to make a 15 sheet, a single piece and then you would actually 16 grind that down to make the sand? 17 A Yes. 18 Q And what was the amount of material that 19 was contained in the bags of Union Carbide molding 20 materials? 21 A Fifty pounds. 22 Q What about thedrums? 23 A I think thosewere 200-pound drums but I'm 24 not certain of that, could be 250. 30 31 32 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 Q It's certainly more than what was in the 2 bags? 3 A Oh, certainly. 4 Q And the gaylords? 5 A That was a thousand pounds. 6 Q When was the first time that Union Carbide 7 placed any kind of warning on the bags or drums or 8 gaylords with respect to asbestos being a component 9 of the molding materials that did contain asbestos? 10 A In 1973. 11 Q Do you know what month in *73 that 12 occurred? 13 A Not certain. They were using a stamp for 14 a while until they got the printed labels so I 15 couldn't give you the exact month. Even when I 16 looked at the records I couldn't determine exact 17 month when it started, it might be there but I 18 didn't see it. 19 Q Do you know if it was in early '73 or mid 20 or late? 31 A I would guess it was probably towards the 32 latter part of the first half. 23 Q So like May or June approximately, 24 somewhere in there? 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 A Probably, yes. 2 Q And what did the initial warning say that 3 was placed on theparticular bags or drums or 4 gaylords? 5 A I don't remember the exact warning, it's 6 in the files, but it's something like product 7 contains asbestos and then went on, it could be 8 detrimental to your health, but the exact words I 9 don't recall. 10 Q Did it say anything about avoid breathing 11 dust? 12 A It had something about dust -- well, we 13 had dust labels on prior to that on all our 14 products, even in the 60's. There's something in 15 the files on it, if you want the exact wording of 16 it, I don't remember that fine a detail. 17 Q Was there anything on the 1973 label that 18 mentioned the word cancer? 19 A I don't recall seeing that. 20 Q Now, you said there were dust labels prior 21 to *73, what did those labels inform people that 22 read that particular label? 23 A Again, I don't remember the exact wording 24 but you can get it in the file. 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 Q Was there anything in the dust label that 2 talked about asbestos? 3 A No. 4 Q Was the label that was placed on the 5 materials prior to '73 just simply informing the 6 reader of the label that the material within the bag 7 or drum or gaylord was a dusty material? 8 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, go 9 ahead. 10 A I think the wording said it could create 11 dust. 12 BY MR. KELLY: 13 Q Now, Doug Neal you said had done some 14 testing for asbestos in the air at Union Carbide? 15 A Yes. 16 Q And was he doing this testing in the 17 molding material department? 13 A He did some but I don't know if he did it 19 all. 20 Q As far as you're aware, was he testing the 31 air for asbestos in all of the various building at 22 Bound Brook? 23 A He would do it on request, yes. 24 Q And what would cause him to receive a 33 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 request to test the air for asbestos? 2 A Well, in RfiD it would be the request of 3 the manager in the area. 4 Q When was the first time Union Carbide did 5 any testing of the air at Bound Brook for the 6 presence of asbestos? 7 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 8 A After the -- 9 MS. CLARK: You can go ahead. 10 A It was after the OSHA test was 11 published -- I believe that was the end of *70 or 12 beginning of '71 -- testing began to determine 13 whether we were in compliance both in RD and it 14 began also in our manufacturing facilities. 15 BY MR. KELLY: 16 Q And was there a department or a certain 17 group of people that were responsible for doing the 13 tests of the air? 10 A Well, the person I was most familiar with 20 that did the testing was Doug, whether there were 31 others involved in other parts of the plant I don't 22 know. 23 Q Now, we talked before about how the other 24 manufacturing processes that were going on at 34 35 36 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 Bound Brook didn't utilize asbestos as a raw 2 material; is that right? 3 A Yes. 4 Q Where was the asbestos that was being 5 looked for in the air in the other buildings coming 6 from if it wasn't coining from the manufacturing 7 process? MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, go 9 ahead. 10 A Thetestingwould be done where the 11 asbestos were beingused. 12 BY MR. KELLY: 13 Q And the only places that you're aware of 14 where the testing occurred would have been in 15 research and development and in the manufacturing 16 building, the phenolic molding department? 17 A That's correct. 18 Q Are youaware ofasbestos being present on 19 the pipes, boilers, things of that nature that were 20 used in the manufacturing process but not actually 21 raw materials? 22 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 23 A No. 24 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 BY MR. KELLY: 2 Q Did you ever receive any information from 3 Union Carbide that asbestos was present in any of 4 the buildings that were being used in the 5 manufacturing of any product at Bound Brook? 6 A Well, as we said before, the asbestos was 7 only being used in the phenolic areaand I was 8 always aware of it so why would there be a 9 notification? I mean, I wouldn't have got a 10 notification, I knew it was there. 11 Q I think you've answered my question, but I 12 mean, I just want to be clear, the only asbestos 13 that you ever received any information about 14 existing in any of the buildings, whether for 15 manufacturing or use as a material in the actual 16 products themselves, was the asbestos used as a 17 filler in the phenolic molding business? 18 A That's right. 19 Q Did Union Carbide make asbestos-containing 20 molding material at any of the other facilities that 21 we talked about, whether Belleville, Ontario or down 22 in Mexico? 23 A They did in Belleville, I don't knowabout 24 Mexico. 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 Q Did you ever have an opportunity to visit 2 the Belleville plant? 3 A Yes. 4 Q On how many occasions did you go there? 5 A How many what? 6 Q How many occasions did you go there? 7 A Probably about two. 8 Q And was the operation in Belleville 9 similar to the operation that was at Bound Brook 10 with respect to these phenolic molding materials? 11 A Yes, but smaller. 12 Q And were the materials being made in 13 Belleville the same types of materials, they were 14 just being made for Canada? 15 A Some were. Their market was smaller. 16 Q Were there any materials that were made in 17 Belleville that weren't made at Bound Brook? 13 A None that I'm aware of. 19 Q So, for example, if a customer wanted a 20 particular type of molding material, there weren't 21 molding materials that they could only get from 22 Belleville, they would be able to get those from 23 Bound Brook if they wanted to? 24 A That's right. 37 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 Q Are you familiar with a Union Carbide 2 facility in Ottawa, Illinois? 3 A What kind of facility? 4 Q A manufacturing facility? 5 A There was a polyethylene facility there 6 for a while. 7 Q Do you know if there was ever any molding 8 material manufacturing done in Ottawa? 9 A Phenolic molding material? 10 Q Yes. 11 A No. 12 Q Do you know if asbestos was ever used in 13 any of the manufacturing processes in Ottawa? 14 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, also 15 beyond the scope of this deposition. 16 BY MR. KELLY: 17 Q You can still answer. 13 A I'm not aware of any. 19 Q Back at Bound Brook, the phenolic molding 20 department, were there any kinds of measures which 21 Union Carbide had instituted in that building in 22 order to try to reduce the amount of dust in the 23 air? 24 A In the manufacturing? 38 39 40 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 Q Yes. 2 A Oh, yes. 3 Q And whatwere someof those? 4 A Improvingventilation, implementing 5 procedures as to how to handle the asbestos most 6 safely, the last few years people wore special 7 clothing, protective clothing, they always wore 8 masks, consolidating asbestos all into one line, all 9 the products. 10 Q The entirety of the time that you were at 11 Bound Brook the individuals that were working with 12 the asbestos materials wore masks? 13 A Yes. 14 Q And did the mask change over time that the 15 people wore? 16 A I don't recall that we changed masks, I 17 can't be sure. 18 Q What did the masks look like that the 19 individuals wore in there? 20 A They were paper masks that fit over the 31 nostrils that screened out dust and fibers. 32 Q Sort of the kind of mask that you would 23 expect a painter to wear or something like that? 24 A Yes. The inference went primarily into 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 ventilation, improving ventilation. 2 Q And did some of the ventilation measures 3 include dust hoods, things that would try to vacuum 4 or suck up some of the dust from the air? 5 A Yes. 6 Q And those particular hoods, where were 7 they located with respect to the various processes 8 that were being done inthatbuilding? 9 A Usually right over the rolls, over the 10 mixers, wherever there was a possibility that dust 11 would be generated. 12 Q And when the various hoods sucked up the 13 asbestos or whatever else was in the air, where did 14 the dust go? 15 A It was -- went into collectors, dust 16 collectors. 17 Q And was the dust bagged and disposed of 18 after that? 19 A I don't know what the procedure was. 20 Q Were there any kind of fans or any other 21 kinds of implements that attempted to move the air? 22 A The fans would probably be in the 23 ventilation system somewhere. 24 Q You said there were alsosome procedures 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 on safe handling that were implemented? 2 A Making sure that the bags were opened in a 3 way that would create the least dust, that they were 4 dumped in a way that would create the least dust and 5 under hoods, that sort of thing. 6 Q Union Carbide knew that the material 7 within the bags of asbestos was hazardous,correct? 8 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, calls 9 for expert opinion, go ahead. 10 A Well, when the OSHA regulations were 11 published, they certainlywere, they had to comply 12 to that. 13 BY MR. KELLY: 14 Q And one of the ways in which Union Carbide 15 tried to at least reduce the hazard to the worker in 16 the phenolic molding department was to try to reduce 17 the amount of dust that was actually in the air, 18 correct? 19 A Yes. 20 Q And one of the means of doing so was to 21 try to reduce the amount of dust from simply opening 22 or pouring out the asbestos to be used in 23 manufacturing? 24 A Yes. 41 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 Q And then also you said places like the 2 rollers or the mixers where dust would typically be 3 generated they imposed ventilation and collection 4 measures to try to reduce the dust as well? 5 A Yes. 6 Q You said also Union Carbide at some point 7 implemented special clothing for the workers? 8 A Yes. 9 Q When did that occur? 10 A That I don't know, I wasn't inthat 11 department. 12 Q What was the time frame that you weren't 13 in that department that that would have occurred? 14 A Well, this was in manufacturing so I was 15 never in manufacturing. 16 Q So at least in research and development 17 they never wore special clothing? 18 A That'sright. 19 Q At some point in manufacturing, you're not 20 sure of the date. Union Carbide imposed special 21 clothing to be used by the workers? 22 A Right. 23 Q You said also that manufacturing that 24 involved use of asbestos was limited to a single 42 43 44 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 manufacturing lino? 2 A That was the plan. That was begun in 1970 3 and we started removing asbestos from products# 4 especially low concentration# so that we could put 5 all our asbestos products on one line. Whether they 6 got to that point where they were doing it# I donTt know. 8 Q With respect to the sampling that Mr. Neal 9 and maybe others were doing of the air in the 10 manufacturing part# do you know if any of those 11 samples ever exceeded the OSHA thresholds? 12 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 13 A Not that I'm aware of. 14 BY MR. KELLY: 15 Q Was Union Carbide ever cited by OSHA or 16 any other entity# for example# the New Jersey Board 17 of Health or whatever it may be called for exceeding 18 a threshhold imposed for asbestos? 19 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 20 A From what I could see from the records# 21 they were not. 22 BY MR. KELLY: 23 Q Did you ever observe Mr. Neal or others 24 sampling the air for the presence of asbestos? 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 A Yes. 2 Q And was that in the RfiD building? 3 A Yes. 4 Q When was the first time you recall 5 actually observing that? 6 A The first documented time was in early *73 7 but I think I had asked them to do some testing 8 prior to that time. 9 Q You personally had asked to have some 10 testing done? 11 A Yes. 12 Q When was it that you personally requested 13 some testing of the air? 14 A I think it was in '72 but I haven't found 15 records of what the results were. 16 Q What caused you to request sampling of the 17 air in '72? 18 A I wanted to be sure that we had a safe 19 environment when we were handling the products. 20 Q The research and development people, did 31 they perform their work for all of the various types 32 of processes that were being done at Bound Brook? 23 Let me ask it a different way, that was confusing. 24 Some of the stuff that you did your research and 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 development work for at Bound Brook included the 2 phenolic resin and phenolic moldingcompounds# 3 correct? 4 A Right. 5 Q Did the RiD team# did they also do 6 research and development work for the other types of 7 materials# polystyrenes and thingslike that? 8 A Yes# yes. 9 Q Was the research and development area 10 sectioned off in any way such that there were 11 certain people in certain areas of that building 12 that worked on just polystyrene and people that just 13 worked on the asbestos-containing molding materials? 14 A The thermoplastic operations were a 15 separate part of the building than the thermosetting 16 operations primarily to avoid contamination and they 17 were different also. 18 Q You said before that at one point 19 Union Carbide at least researched the possibility of 20 using Calidria as one of the components of its 21 molding materials. Were there any other types of 22 asbestos suppliers or fiber types that Union Carbide 23 attempted to research the possibility of using in 24 its molding materials? 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 A When Calidria came up with pelleted 2 asbestos# that was evaluated in the manufacturing 3 department. 4 Q And Calidria was sold in a resin grade 5 form; is that correct? 6 MS. CLARK: Objection# foundation. A It was sold in a pellet -- well# was 8 offered in a pellet# I don't know how much they sold 9 that way but it was offered in a pellet. 10 BY MR. KELLY: 11 Q And was there ever a form of Calidria that 12 you know of that was sold simply for purposes of 13 being used in resins? 14 MS. CLARK: Objection# foundation. 15 A No special grade for a -- if there was, I 16 was not aware of it. 17 BYMR.KELLY: 18 Q Have you ever seen any reference to like 19 Calidria RG-200? 20 A Yes. 21 Q And do you know if that was a resin grade 22 form? 23 A It was suitable for resin# whether that 24 was its only use I don't know. 46 47 48 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 Q Do you know if the RG-200 cam in 2 pelletizeed form or any other type of form? 3 A As I recall, it was a pelleted form. 4 Q Did you ever see or test or otherwise have 5 any interaction with any form of Calidria that was 6 not in the pelletizeed form? A During ray earlier tests in the raid 60*s, 8 that was not pellet. 9 Q Do you know if there was a time when all 10 of the Calidria was pelletizeed? 11 A I don't know. 12 Q In addition to attempting to improve the 13 ventilation from the asbestos being used in the 14 operations at Bound Brook, did Union Carbide do any 15 medical monitoring of the employees that were 16 working with the asbestos? 17 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 18 A I don't know what was done in that area. 19 BY MR. KELLY: 20 Q Did you yourself ever have the company 21 take chest X-rays of you or otherwise monitor any of 22 your breathing function? 23 A That was part of our annual physical. 24 Q And were the annual physicals, were they 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 part of your employment when you first started in 2 *48 or did it start sometime after that? 3 A As I recall, we were entitled to an annual 4 physical all those years. 5 Q And you used the word entitled, does that 6 mean that if you didn't want to have an annual 7 physical you could opt out from that? 8 A I believe so. 9 Q Union Carbide paid for the physical if you 10 chose to have one? 11 A Yes. 12 Q And what did the physical include, did it 13 include a chest X-ray? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Did it include a pulmonary function test? 16 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague. 17 A In the later years it did, I don't 18 remember how far back it went. 19 BY MR. KELLY: 20 Q What else did the physical entail? 21 A A typical physical, took a couple hours, 22 blood tests, hearing, eye test, very thorough. 23 Q After the physical was performed, was the 24 Union Carbide employee entitled to learn the results 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 of the examination? 2 A Yes. 3 Q And was there a place where the files that 4 were kept pertaining to these examinations were 5 kept? 6 A Yes. 7 Q Was that at Bound Brook? 8 A Yes. 9 Q What was the building or the name of the 10 location where the medical materials were kept? 11 A I don't remember the number of the 12 buildings. 13 Q Was there a -- how did you refer to the 14 building where it was kept? 15 A Well, the medical department. They were 16 located in the plant initially and then they were 17 moved to another location that was more modern. 13 Q Were the doctor -- let me ask, was it 19 doctors or nurses that performed the physicals? 20 A Doctor. 21 Q And was the doctor somebody that was on 22 the payroll of Union Carbide or was it a private 23 outside doctor that had been hired for that 24 particular function? 49 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 A They had both. 2 Q Do you remember the names of any of the 3 doctors that performed the examinations? 4 A Dr. McKinley, Dr. Flores -- 5 Q F-l-o-r-e-s? 6 A F-l-o-r-e-s. 7 -- and then I don't remember who the 8 recent one was. 9 Q Were any of Dr. McKinley or Dr. Flores 10 employees of Union Carbide? 11 A They were, yes. 12 Q Has Union Carbide ever been named in a 13 worker's compensation or occupational disease act 14 claimed by a former employee of the Bound Brook 15 plant with respect to asbestos exposure? 16 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 17 A I don't know of any. 13 BY MR. KELLY: 19 Q Have you ever learned just from talking to 20 other retirees or other former employees that you 21 used to work with at the plant as to whether anyone 22 has ever filed such a claim against Union Carbide 23 for asbestos exposure at Bound Brook? 24 A No. 50 51 52 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 Q When you were at Bound Brook, did 2 Union Carbide ever provide any training to the 3 employees with respect to the hazards of asbestos? 4 A They were informed when the OSHA tests 5 became available, they were informed as to why we 6 were doing it and what the limits were. 7 Q Did Union Carbide inform the workers at 8 these particular meetings as to what the potential 9 hazards were from inhaling and breathing asbestos? 10 A Yes. 11 Q And did that include cancer? 12 A Yes. 13 Q Asbestosis? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Was it the safety department or some other 16 people that performed the task of informing the 17 workers of the testing and the various hazards 18 associated with asbestos? 19 A We could ask them to come in or any 20 specialist to come in that we wanted if we felt we 31 needed that and any employee was free to go to 32 anyone in the organization and inquire and get 23 information as to whether a product is hazardous or 24 not without fear of being disciplined for doing it 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 and they had access to all the material safety data 2 sheets we had on all our products, all our 3 chemicals. 4 Q Was it the safety department that informed 5 the workers of the various hazards at these 6 meetings? A That is where much of the information 8 originated, they didn't necessarily have to be the 9 ones who presented it. 10 Q But once the safety department diseraanated 11 that particular information, you're comfortable with 12 at some point or another the workers were informed 13 of what the safety department had passed out through 14 its written materials? 15 A Yes. We had divisional safety meetings 16 every month. 17 MR. KELLY: Let's take a five-minute 18 break. 19 (A recease was taken.) 20 MR. KELLY: Can you mark that for me. 21 (UCC Deposition Exhibit No. 2 was 22 marked for identification.) 23 BY MR. KELLY: 24 Q I'mgoing to show you what's been marked 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 as UCC Exhibit No. 2, take a chance to look at that 2 and let me know when you*re done. 3 MS. CLARK: Do you have any extra copies? 4 MR. KELLY: I don't. 5 Q Have you seen that document before? 6 MS. CLARK: Can you hang on, I would like to see it. 8 BY MR. KELLY: 9 Q Have you seen that document before? 10 A No. 11 Q The document itself is entitled Tentative 12 Product Formulation, do you see that in the top left 13 corner? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Did you see forms like this at all, not 16 this particular one but this general form used at 17 all in the research and development? 18 A Yes. 19 Q And what was this particular form used 20 for? 21 A It was a way of communicating what the 22 formula was that we intended to make in the 23 manufacturingdepartment. 24 Q And typically when you would put a form 53 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 like this together you would have a certain customer 2 that was asking you to create a certain type of a 3 molding material that had certain qualities? 4 A That could be one reason, there could also 5 be others. We may have initiated the product 6 ourselves. Q And at least based on this particular 8 sheet here where it says customer or manufacturing 9 process method, it says Plastics Engineering 10 Company, do you see that? 11 A Yes. 12 Q Do you know what Plastics Engineering 13 Company is? 14 A That's a manufacturer of molding 15 materials. 16 Q Do you know if Union Carbide ever 17 manufactured molding materials for Plastics 18 Engineering Company? 19 A Molding materials, I don't know, I don't 20 know. 21 Q What about resins,thisparticular one 22 says it's a solid one-step resin? 23 A Yes. I wasn't aware of this, but reading 24 what I see here, it's a lump resin, no fillers. 54 55 56 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 Q At least based on what you see in this 2 particular document, does it appear to you that 3 Union Carbide was at least formulating a one-step 4 resin for Plastics Engineering Company? 5 A Yes, that's how I would interpret that. 6 Q And other than what you see on this 7 particular document, do you know if Union Carbide 8 ever made resins or molding compounds or any other 9 type of material for Plastics Engineering Company? 10 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague, compound. 11 A No, I don't know. 12 MR. KELLY: Can you mark that as three and 13 four. 14 (UCC Deposition Exhibit Nos. 3 and 4 15 were marked for identification.) 16 BY MR. KELLY: 17 Q I'm going to show you what's been marked IS as Exhibits 3 and 4. Take a look at both of those 19 and let me know when you're done. 20 A Okay. 31 MS. CLARK: I think I'm okay, we'll see. 32 THE WITNESS : I don't think I need to read 23 the whole; thing unless I get stuck. 24 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 BY MR. KELLY: 2 Q I'm probably notgoing to ask you about 3 the whole thing anyway. Exhibit 3, that's the 4 May 18, 1973 letter that you received? 5 A Yes. 6 Q And the G.E. Baler, is that the Mr. Ealer 7 you spoke about before? 8 A Yes. 9 Q And first of all, what is this particular 10 correspondence in relation to? 11 A We were trying to --well, we had a 12 program to come up with asbestos-free molding 13 materials wherever possible and this was one of the 14 grades that contained about I believe 30 percent 15 asbestos. We had not up to this point found a good 16 replacement for asbestos. The best we could do was 17 reduce the amount without affecting the properties 18 and George had come up with a 50/50 blend. He was 19 also using the pelleted Calidria asbestos because we 20 had hopes of being able to go into bulk handling of 21 asbestos and keeping it in a completely enclosed 22 system. 23 Q The first thing you said was that you had 24 some sort of directive to make the molding compounds 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 asbestos free? 2 A Yes. 3 Q When did Union Carbide first attempt to 4 make its compounds asbestos free? 5 A We started in the late 70's to remove 6 asbestos and with the products that contained 7 5 percent we were able to do that fairly easy, then 8 we moved up to higher percentages. The higher we 9 went, the more difficult the job was. So between 10 late '70 and '73 we had been systematically 11 eliminating asbestos from the lower levels and 12 gradually working our way up and this was -- we had 13 succeeded in doing it up to about oh, I think 10, 14 15 percent level. This one we weren't able to 15 remove the asbestos without affecting the 16 properties. 17 Q You said a couple times there late 70's, I 18 think you meant late 60's up until 1973 was the time 19 period that you were trying to take out the 20 asbestos? 21 A We started in 1970 to remove the asbestos 22 in products that contained only 5 percentand we 23 were working our way from late -- did Isay -- from 24 the latter part of 1970, I should have said latter 57 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 part of 1970, to this point and we had succeeded in 2 all -- with all the lower levels but not at the 3 30 percent level. 4 Q Now, you said before that 20 percent of 5 the molding materials in general actually contained 6 asbestos? A That was at the end of the 50's. 8 Q By 1970 when the program was instituted to 9 take asbestos out of the products, what percentage 10 of the materials contained asbestos at that point? 11 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, vague, 12 ambiguous. 13 A We hadreached a peak ofroughly 14 40 percent of the total pounds contained asbestos 15 and then succeeded in bringing it -- that was in 16 '69 -- and then we succeeded in bringing it down oh, 17 I would estimate that in '74 we were probably down 18 to about 20 percentagain. 19 BY MR. KELLY: 20 Q So some of the materials you were able to 21 simply just take the asbestos out and replace it 22 with another filler? 23 A Yes. 24 Q Some of thematerials like the one 56 59 60 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 referenced on the May 18, 1973 letter you weren't 2 able to substitute something else so you looked for 3 other options to reduce the amount of asbestos? 4 A Yes. It was -- the only option we had at 5 that time was to reduce it as much as possible to 6 reduce the risk of exposure. The less asbestos, the 7 less risk it will be of asbestos in the air. 8 Q And the purpose of reducing the amount of 9 asbestos was to try to make a safer product even 10 though you couldn't entirely remove the hazardous 11 asbestos? 12 A That's correct. 13 Q Exhibit 4 I think it is, the August 22, 14 1973 report? 15 A Right. 16 Q That's also a document that you received? 17 A Yes. 18 Q And is that a report outlining further 19 results with respect to this material referenced in 20 Exhibit 3 or is that something different? 31 A They are in reference to the same product, 32 6935 and 5303, I think both contained about the same 23 amount of asbestos in them. And he talks about, you 24 know, in the fourth paragraph here all the above 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 information is essential in determining the right 2 formula for our 5303 compounds which are top grade 3 asbestos filled molding materials we sell so here he 4 just talks about 5303. 5 Q And the end result of the report in the 6 August 22, 1973 report is that a 70/30 blend of both 7 the Calidria and the Carey floats can be utilized in 8 substituting the prior amount of just Carey 9 asbestos; is that right? 10 A As I recall, we ended up focussing on the 11 50/50 mixture, 50 percent asbestos, 50 percent blend 12 of calcium carbonate, at least that was our goal. 13 Q Did he -- 14 A Oh, he says indicate a 70/30 blend, I'm 15 sorry. It looks as if 70/30 was what he ended up 16 with at this time. Our goal was 50/50. 17 Q Did the newformula that Mr. Baler came up 18 with that's enumerated in the August 22, 1973 19 report, did that ever become material that was 20 actually manufactured by Union Carbide? 21 A We ran into a problem with the dispersion 22 of the pelleted Calidria asbestos. 23 Q And what was that? 24 A We couldn't break up thepellets back to 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 the original fibers sufficiently, you get clumps of 2 undispersed asbestos in the product so that delayed 3 the introduction of this particular product. 4 Whether -- I don't know without going to the records 5 whether we went back to the regular asbestos and 6 introduced this formula made with it in '74 or not, 7 I would have to go back to the records to check 8 that. 9 Q At least during this time frame that 10 material continued to be made with asbestos? 11 A Yes. 12 Q It just wasn't made with the calcium 13 carbonate and Calidria mix? 14 A That's right. 15 MR. KELLY: Can you mark that for me. 16 (UCC Deposition Exhibit No. 5 was 17 marked for identification.) 13 BY MR. KELLY: 15 Q Exhibit 5, take a look at that and let me 20 know when you're done. 21 A Okay. 22 Q Who is R.E. Graebert? 23 A He was the health and safety manager for 24 the division, for the phenolic division. 61 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 Q Is Mr. Graebert still living, do you know? 2 A No, he's dead. 3 Q What about Mr. Nicolson, the name at the 4 top of the page? 5 A What about him? 6 Q Who is that? A He was the business manager for the 8 phenolic business. 9 Q And if you look about midway through that 10 first paragraph, it says. We urge that a technical 11 effort by R$D be initiated towards minimizing the 12 use of asbestos, do you see that? 13 A Yes. 14 Q And then in the next sentence it says, 15 Ideally, of course, a nonhazardous substitute for 16 asbestos would be the most desirable solution? 17 A Yes. 18 Q And that's part of what you were trying to 19 do in R$D was to eliminate thehazardous asbestos 20 that was already contained inthosematerials? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Union Carbide knew that the asbestos was 23 hazardous and was trying to eliminate that hazard to 24 both its employees and to its customers? 62 63 64 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, calls 2 for an expert opinion, go ahead. 3 A Yes, we were trying to reduce and possibly 4 eliminate the hazard. 5 BY MR. KELLY: 6 Q And in fact, Mr. Graebert goes on inthe 7 second paragraph that part of themeans bywhich to 8 protect workers and customers is to reduce the 9 amount of airborne asbestos in the plant in order to 10 keep levels below the OSHA levels, correct? 11 A That's correct. 12 Q Did you yourself ever do any testing of 13 the products that Union Carbide was making for 14 molding -- strike that. Let me ask it a different 15 way. Did Union Carbide ever test its molding 16 materials to determine whether or not free asbestos 17 was released into the air when it was being used by 18 its customers? 19 A Yes. 20 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague. 21 BY MR. KELLY: 22 Q And when did it -- when did Union Carbide 23 first do that type of testing? 24 MS. CLARK: Go ahead. 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 A In 1973 we took -- we decided because 2 there was so many different ways customers were 3 using asbestos molding materials perhaps the best 4 way to determine whether there was a hazard or not 5 was to take one of our highest containing asbestos 6 material, 5303, and dump it from one drum to another 7 under the worst possible conditions and have 8 Doug Neal sample the air around it and around the 9 area while we were doing it. 10 This was a nonventilated area, we 11 were using a fiber drum, the highest, 30 percent 12 asbestos and we found that the number of fibers for 13 30 percent asbestos containing material exceeded the 14 OSHA limits under those conditions. Now, there was 15 no further work done to the OSHA tests -- in order 16 to reach a final figure, you should run tests to 17 differentiate between cellulosic fibers and asbestos 18 fibers, that was not done. There was no time 19 weighted average done. So it was -- everything was 20 biassed to make it the worst possible conditions. 21 We found that at the 15 percent level 22 we did meet OSHA requirements under the worst 23 possible conditions and that's when, you know, 24 within a few weeks after that the decision was made 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 to label all our bags with -- that it contained 2 asbestos, including those that were under 3 15 percent, anything containing asbestos and to 4 accelerate the program that we were working on to 5 remove asbestos. 6 Q The test that you performed with respect 7 to the dumping of the 5303 product, how many bags of 8 asbestos were used? 9 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague, foundation. 10 A I don't remember, I'd have to go back to 11 the files for that. 12 BY MR. KELLY: 13 Q Is the process of dumping the bag 14 sometimes called charging, have you ever heard that 15 term used? 16 A No. 17 Q Did the test of the 5303 product by 18 Mr. Neal did that include any OSHA representatives 19 being present? 20 A No. 21 Q That was just something Union Carbide did 22 on its own? 23 A That'sright. 24 Q Did Union Carbide ever do any testing of 65 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 the finished product, for example, a product after 2 it had been molded to determine whether or not there 3 was any health hazard to people that were handling 4 that product or simply sanding off the flashing or 5 things of that nature? 6 A My recollection was that we did do some 7 drilling and some abrasion tests and had air samples 8 taken when we were doing that. I haven't been able 9 to find any written records as to what the results 10 were. 11 Q Do you have any recollection as you sit 12 here today as to what the results were even though 13 you've never seen a document? 14 A What I recall was that we were well below 15 the limits of the OSHA -- the OSHA limits. 16 Q Who were the individuals -- well, let me 17 ask you this, first of all, were the people that 18 performed the testing on the finished product people 19 in RD over at Bound Brook? 20 A That was my recollection. 21 Q And do you know who the individuals were 22 that were involved in that? 23 A No. I've been trying to determine it. 24 Tony O'Livo recalls the same thing I do, that we ran 66 67 68 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 the tests and we came up with positive results. He 2 also cannot remember where the -- why we can't find 3 a record of it. 4 Q Do you know who Carl Dernhehl is? 5 A Who? 6 Q Carl Dernhehl, D-e-r-n-h-e-h-1, have you 7 ever heard that name? MS. CLARK: Maybe Dernhehl? 9 A Dernhehl, yes. He's in -- I think he's in 10 our corporate safety organization, either medical 11 or - 12 BY MR. KELLY: 13 Q Did you ever speak with him at any time 14 about asbestos issues? 15 A No. 16 Q You said before that the last time that 17 you're aware of Union Carbide using asbestos in its 18 molding compounds was in either '74 or '75? 19 A We went out of the business in '75. 20 (UCC Deposition Exhibit No. 6 was 21 marked for identification.) 22 BY MR. KELLY: 23 Q I'm going to show you Exhibit 6. 24 A My -- 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 MS. CLARK: Wait. 2 BY MR. KELLY: 3 Q Have you seen that exhibit before? 4 A No, pretty surprising. 5 Q Do you know any of the individuals that 6 are named as people that received that particular 7 letter? 8 A Roger Hampson I know. 9 Q And what was Roger Hampson, what was his 10 position? 11 A He was a sites manager while I was there. 12 Q What does the sites manager do? 13 A He's sort of like the landlord, you know, 14 make sure the building is maintained, heating, air 15 conditioning, the works. 16 Q In charge of all the pipes in the 17 buildings and the facilities themselves? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Anybody else in that memo that you know? 20 A Smith Eberhardt, he was in charge of 21 safety. 22 Q You see in the first sentence there where 23 it talks about asbestos purchases? 24 A Yes. 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin : Q And effective, what's the date there? 2 A That's 1989. 3 Q January 1 of 1989? 4 A The date I gave you was for phenolic 5 molding materials. 6 Q Right, I understand that. Let me ask a 7 question here. 8 MS. CLARK: Just wait until he asks you a 9 question. 10 THE WITNESS: Okay. Well, I just wanted 11 to clarify to make sure that ray answer before 12 was not misinterpreted. Go ahead. 13 BY MR. KELLY: 14 Q Your information and your testimony is 15 that in either '74 or *75 asbestos discontinued use 16 as a filler in the molding compounds, correct? 17 A Right. 13 Q That particular memo there discusses how 19 Union Carbide effective January 1 of 1989 is going 20 to cease purchase of asbestos, is that correct, yes? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Do you know what purchases of asbestos 23 Union Carbide continued to make after 1974 or 1975? 24 MS. CLARK: I'm just going to object to 69 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 the mischaracterization of the document as to 2 purchasing asbestos. 3 A This is the solvents and coatings material 4 division and I don't know what they were doing with 5 asbestos. 6 BY MR. KELLY: Q The solvents and coatings division, did 8 they have buildings at Bound Brook? 9 A Yes, well, they had people at Bound Brook. 10 Q What kind of work were the people that 11 were at Bound Brook doing? 12 A The coatings -- 13 MS. CLARK: Can you read that back. 14 (The question was read.) 15 MS. CLARK: In the solvents -- I just 16 didn't understand yourquestion. 17 MR. KELLY: I'll ask again so we're clear. 18 Q The people that were in the solvents and 19 coatings division that were working out of 20 Bound Brook, what kind of work were those 21 individuals doing there? 22 A The people I knew in the coatings division 23 developed coatings resins and I never was aware that 24 they were using any asbestos at all. 70 71 72 9L `VL qnqs Aqq uqM qBp qoBX qq mou>( q,uop i oe \}i\ &Z Aft ut ssutsnq qq qji I -- q,uo IV Jlsqt toj S3{Bds quumoop ZZ ZZ qq #qoCqo oq 6uto6 , i :>ni\nO *SW 13 * sA IZ qdBj6BJB,j 0 v OZ 6T mZ qdBj6BiBa $ BT 0qBqq st qdBtfiBJBd qBqfl v iqq Bui qqtM j6b noA op 'soqsqsB putBquoo iT 91 qsqq "[BtiqBUi pAqpiBimojiouqd qti}(Bg qq gj pios puB pinqoBjnuBui qt qsqq urtq qsBi qq sbm &/.6T frl ptui qBqq tqqi JBinotqtBd stqq ut v<33 Mq 6utHq st ptqiBO uotun qsqq iq sAbs qt puv 0 * SBqBUTUTBf UA pUB SpunodUIOD OTIOUqd Oq JJJ 01 31 II oq AitxBintqd Atqsnput qq ut uuq dttu6 b ureoq oi qt uqq pub utAqsAtod puBtq qti^Bg 'uqAqsAtod q6 pinoM noA qBqq os hm sb sotqsBidoui-ioqq jno ns joj ureu puBtq b sb qti3(Bg 6utsn 6 g z UB6q m uqj, 'sqButuiBi ^tt sqonpotd , stuioqsno 9 tno jo uios 6utpniout sutst pAqpiBuuojiouqd uiojj pBui sbm qsqq ButqqAuB jaoo oq ppudx XlIBnpBifi qt uqq 'sutsj pAqpiBUUOjiouqd oq pttjt qtt3iB8 AiiBtqtui v 5 ^ Z c,qq6tt qBqq st ;qtt3iBg pTTBO st spunoduioo 6utptoui 1 U|M9 U| O|jeo 'ouqjew SOOZ/SZ/S SL iButqsoq stq Butop sbm jjb3 *iw uqM g6I JqjB urrq Aub q soqsqs BjjpTjBO oq qodst qqtM qumqtBdp Qsg qq qB jo ibmb q4noA qBqq uop Butqsq Aub tqq sbm puv $ qqfira v Lq861 #qqO0 unp oq dn ptqtBO uotun Aq pxos sbm BtiptiBO qsqq sAbs qdBt6BtBd qq s noA op puv 0 *Z qdBifiBJBd *z * Abjjo : ATIHi! *9N V *Z :HWTIO *SH otqq Abs noA pta :SS3NJ,IM 3HL omj, IATIHH *3W ZZ 6ed Abs noA ptp '6Bd 6uotm qq uo i,m J(Utqq 1 :>!HV33 *SW o586T 'OE unp oq 0961moJJ AiBtptsqns sqt 10 ptqjBOuotun Aq pios puB psutui sbm soqsoqsB BtaptiBO'sAbs qt tqM z qdBt&BtBd 'z 6sd uo s noA puv & sa V iJojq qnoqB psj(iBq noA >|ti uotqtsodp b qB qt jo suotqaod bbs noA ptp puv 0 qt jo suotqtod s ptp 1 qnq Aqitqu sqt ut qt s q.uptp IV \Z Z ZZ IZ OZ 61 gi Z.I 91 51 H 1 ZT n OT 6 g z 9 5 ^ z T UIM9 u) opeo *ou!MeW SOOZ/SZVS qq jo utbu pBiq qq #ijb jo qsatg *^Z,6I PTm TT^un 6061 AxqBuiTxojddB iuojj soqsqsB putBquoo qotqM qti^Bg pios puB ptnqoBjnuBui ptqtBo uotun sAbs qj *Z qdBt6BtBd #0 6d oq uinq noA ubo ^ oq uotqBuuojut mu st stqq -- 1 *ou 'on Hi v 0uitq qBqq tqjB soqsqsB jo uitoj tqqo uios to BttpttBO 6utsn sbm stBttqBUi puB s6utqBOO jt mouji qtuop noA & *mou3( q4uop 1 qumqiBdp siBtiqBiu pus s6utqBoo qq ut tq pttnooo qBqpj *6utqsq Aub op oq sn toj uosbi ou sbm tqq os touiAub pBin qonpoid ou sbm jqq siBtiqBiu 6utpioui tog *siBtJqBui Butpiovn joj qBds Aiuo ubo IV fiutqqAuB tog ^ SATiaa *3W A9 i,siBtiqBiu 6utpioiu tog v *n6BA 'uotqoCqo :>ra\TIO *SW o5A6I qqq^T^PTI^O uo q^uusui Aub jo 6utqsq Aub op quuiqtBdpayg qq pja ^ *IBtJqBui Butpiovn iom Aub 6utqBui qou im m os g^6I UT sssutsnq qq jo qno quM m *sA otqM soqsqsB BtiptiBO uq v 0 V VZ Z ZZ IZ OZ 61 gi ^i 91 gi &I 01 z\ II oi 6 8 L 9 5 ^ Z Z I U|M9 U| O|jeo 'ouqjew SOOZ/SZ/S ijojq quumoop stqq uss noA abh 0 qqBtg v 0qoJtoo '6661 't tqoqoo PqP snog 6uttBio qov uotqBUiiojui soqsqsv V<33 ^Uq oq 'qnotqouuco 'AinquBQ ut quuiqjBda mbt ptqtBO uotun qq moij qunmoopb st z 0 *sA IL qj ST -- qtqtqxa V $ (*uotqBOTjtqupt ioj pi|JBiu :A313X *>IW A3 SBM l *on qtqtqxg uotqtsoda 0011) *mtq qBqq qB uotstAtp BttptiBO qq ut uo ButoB sbm qBqM mou^ q,uop IV uotqBpunoj 'uotqoCqo :>J9V1D *SW c,BttptiB3 qq 'soqsqsB ttqosAtqo umo sqt Hs puB q^tBUi oq pnutquoo ptqiBO uotun 5Li PUB fr6T jqjB Buoi ua qBqq 'jts 'jbmb JinoA 0 :A313M `9W A9 qt pBt 1 Abm qq s.qsqj, v quumoop qq sztqqoBtBqostui 'uotqBpunoj 'uotqoCqo :)WV10 *SW i,qoJioo 'q6noqq soqsqsB 6utsn tM Aqq qsqq stBdd qt '9 qtqtqxa sb p3itBui uq s.qsqq ouiui qsqq uo pSBq qsBt qv & tZ Z ZZ \z qz 61 91 /.I 91 gi H 01 ZI II oi 6 g L 9 g t 0 z I uiMQ u) ofjeo *ou!neW SOOZ/SZVS 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 down the plant. So if they said raid *74 I'd have to 2 accept that. 3 BY MR. KELLY: 4 Q Well# you said before it was either *74 or 5 '75. Have you seen documents that show the sale or 6 manufacture of the asbestos-containing 7 phenolformaldehyde molding compounds into 1975? 8 A I did see some sales records for '75. 9 MR. KELLY: Mark that please. 10 (UCC Deposition Exhibit No. 8 was 11 marked for identification.) 12 BY MR. KELLY: 13 Q I show you Exhibit 8. 14 A Okay. 15 Q Are there types of phenolics that 16 Union Carbide made other than for the purpose of 17 compression plunger and injection molding? 18 A Phenolic compounds you'retalking about? 19 Q Right. 20 A If there were anyexceptions# Ican't 21 recall them now. 22 Q Okay. On the second page there's a number 23 of different types of materials and then information 24 about each one. My first question for you# what's 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 the difference between a one-step and a two-step 2 material? 3 A A one-step product has a 4 phenolformaldehyde resin that has the cross-linking 5 agent built right on the molecule and a 6 cross-linking agent is what makes the material a thermoset. It doesn't melt after it's cured# you 8 get a three-dimensional, multidimensional network, 9 like a chain fence linked together and it doesn't 10 melt. 11 In the case of a two-step resin# you 12 have to add the cross-linking agent to it and that's 13 where the hexa is used as the cross-linking agent 14 and that is done in the molding material 15 manufacturing operation. 16 Q That's something that Union Carbide would 17 do as opposed to a place like GE in Bloomington 18 where they're actually molding the product? 19 A That's right# they would have to request 20 what they want. 21 Q The second I guess line underneath each of 22 the various types of materials indicates the type of 23 filler and some of them say wood flour# some of them 24 say mineral, some of them say mica# some of them say 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 flock. Are any of the materials on this sheet the 2 kind that contained asbestos? 3 A In the top -- on the top here or all of 4 them? 5 Q On the following two pages, the last two 6 pages# page 2 and 3? MS. CLARK: Take your time and review it. 8 A 5333 did, 2035 did# 5138 did, 5303 did. 9 I'd have to look at the formula sheets to determine 10 whether any of the others were asbestos or not. 11 BY MR. KELLY: 12 Q The number designation for each of the 13 materials# it will say something like BMG or BMC# 14 what do the letters indicate? 15 A B is Bakelite# M is molding# G is 16 granular. Generally five is two step# two is one 17 step# that's the first digit# but there are always 18 exceptions to the rules but that is generally true. 19 Q And the last three numbers, are they 20 generally just like a style or a grade? 21 A Yes# just what the sequence was. 22 Q And then the reference to virtually all of 23 the materials on this particular document refer to 24 Black 25, there's some others but most of them are 77 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 Black 25# what does Black 25 mean? 2 A That means that the colorant was 3 nigrosine # which is an oil soluble dye. 4 Q So, for example# if there's a reference to 5 Brown 15 or a Black 35# that's just a different 6 coloring agent? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Did Union Carbide make phenolic molding 9 compounds in colors other than black and brown? 10 A Up until the late 60's they did have some 11 colors, yes. 12 Q And what were the other colors that you're 13 aware of? 14 A Maroon# green# we had red and I believe we 15 had a gray, dark gray. There may be others but 16 those are all I recall now. 17 Q When you take# for example# a red molding 13 material and you perform the molding on it# does it 10 come out as a red finished product? 20 A Yes. 21 Q And is that the purpose of adding the 22 color? 23 A Yes. 24 Q Does the color of the material have any 78 79 80 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 other significance for purposes of molding? 2 A No. It's what the customer wanted for his 3 particular application. 4 Q Did the type of asbestos have any effect 5 on the color of the material? 6 A No. Q I'm going to show you Exhibit 7 again, and 8 if you turn to the very last page, page 5, 9 Union Carbide goes through on page 4 and 5 the three 10 general types of asbestos containing Bakelite that 11 it made and the third group it calls high impact 12 heat resistant and that particular material 13 Union Carbide indicates contained long fiberAfrican 14 Blue asbestos? 15 A Yes. 16 Q Do youknow ifthat long fiberAfrican 17 Blue asbestos is crocidolite? 18 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 19 A I looked attherecordsbecause I was 20 concerned about this, you know, whether we actually 21 used it or not, I havenft found -- in the 5250, 22 BMZ 5250 records that they have here, it was Vermont 23 long fiber asbestos which was chrysotile. I haven't 24 found any formulation that shows the long fiber 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 African Blue asbestos. 2 BY MR. KELLY: 3 Q Would you agree with me though that 4 African Blue asbestos is typically crocidolite? MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 6 A Yes. 7 BY MR. KELLY: 8 Q And do you see-- 9 A If it is African Blue, then it is 10 crocidolite, yes. 11 Q And you see in paragraph 4, I guess it 12 would be the third sentence where it begins. Some of 13 the long fiber asbestos had a green hue to it. Any 14 idea as to why the asbestos would have a green hue 15 to it if it was a chrysotile as opposed to a 16 crocidolite? 17 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 18 A This particular product did not have a 19 colorant added to it. What you got was the result 20 of blending the asbestos, which usually had a light 21 gray shade, with a pulverized resin, which is 22 usually a yellowish brown shade, and when you put 23 those two together, you get whatever color comes 24 out. He describes it as a green hue. I would say 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 it was probably a light, you know, very light green 2 hue. It would certainly not be like this carpet. MR. KELLY: Mark that please. 4 (UCC Deposition Exhibit No. 9 was 5 marked for identification.) 6 BY MR. KELLY: Q You understand that the allegations in 8 this particular case relate to a plant in 9 Bloomington, Illinois, of General Electric 10 Corporation? 11 A Yes. 12 Q And have you ever been to the GE plant in 13 Bloomington? 14 A No. 15 Q During the time that you worked for 16 Union Carbide, did you know GE to be a customer of 17 Union Carbide? 13 A I knew that on <occasion we sold to GE 13 plants, I didn't know the details as to what we sold 20 and where. 21 Q Let me show you Exhibit 9 which was 22 provided to me by counsel this morning. Have you 23 seen that document before or that group of 24 documents? 81 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 A I think I need more coffee. 2 Yes, I saw it. 3 Q Do you want to take a break, we can take a 4 break? 5 A No, that's all right. 6 Q What's your understanding of what those 7 particular documents are? 8 A These are sales scrolls. 9 Q And does Union Carbide maintain its sales 10 scrolls with respect to all of its sales of molding 11 compounds? 12 A They did, yes. 13 Q And do you know if they have the entirety 14 of those particular sales scrolls going back to the 15 beginning of time? 16 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 17 A It's my understanding that what is 13 available only goes back to 1964. 17 BY MR. KELLY: 20 Q At least with respect to the documents 21 retained back to 1964, is it your understanding 22 those documents are complete in the sense that 23 they're not missing some? 24 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 82 83 84 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 A That I don't know. 2 BY MR. KELLY: 3 Q Did you review thisdocumentpreviously? 4 A Yes. 5 Q And what did you find withrespect to when 6 Union Carbide was selling materials to the GE plant 7 in Bloomington? 8 A I think the document started in 1968. I 9 can't see what's on this one. This must be 1967 so 10 it must be 1967. 11 Q When was the last date that you found 12 sales to Bloomington? 13 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague. 14 A 1974 -- wait, take that back, a product is 15 shown but no pounds, the same is true of '73, 16 products are shown but no pounds. The last date the 17 pounds were shown is 1972. 18 BY MR. KELLY: 19 Q And what does it mean to you when you see 20 those '73 and '74 entries that show products and no 21 poundage? 22 A That Bloomington didn't order any 23 material. 24 Q And what was the grade of material that 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 was being shipped to Bloomington over these years? 2 A Well, in '72 they had 2051 which was a 3 medium-impact compound, 2798 which was a two -- I'm 4 sorry, a one-step general purpose product and 8052 5 maroon, one of our colored products. 6 Q Did any of those three contain asbestos? 7 A No. 8 Q What about 1971? 9 A 0750 was sold to Bloomington I believe -- 10 no, it's listed but no sales, 2051 again, this looks 11 like 2788 but I think it must be 2798 and 8052 12 maroon again. 13 Q Did any of those materials contain 14 asbestos? 15 A No. 16 Q What about 1970? 17 A Here they go to -- they show the product 18 numbers but don't show the -- and then below they 19 show the pounds as molding material regular, molding 20 material medium impact. The only thing I can do is 21 interpret this to say that the molding material 22 medium impact must be the 2051 that they list here 23 that shows pounds and the molding material regular 24 it must be the BMG 2798 they list and neither of 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 those contained asbestos. 2 Q What about 1969? 3 A Again, they show molding material regular, 4 molding material medium impact and I have to make 5 the assumption that it must be the same products 6 that they bought in the later years. Q There's just no indication for *70 or '69 8 as to the exact grade, just the description, 9 correct? 10 A Just description. 11 Q What about '68? 12 A They show special color a small quantity, 13 it looks like a hundred pounds, no indication as to 14 what color that was, and molding material medium 15 impact, I have to assume it's the same one that we 16 saw before, it shows some pounds. 17 Q What about 1967? 18 A Molding material regular, which we have to 19 make the assumption it was a 2798. 20 Q Were there other grades of material, 21 molding material that Union Carbide manufactured 22 that could be considered regular other than the 23 21 -- or 2798? 24 A I would consider BMT 5000, which is our 85 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 general purpose wood flour two step -- a resin 2 that's a regular. 3 Q Were thereanyasbestos-containing 4 materials that would fall in the category of 5 regular? 6 A I wouldn't consider any of those regular. Q What about with respect to the medium 8 impact material, werethere any asbestos-containing 9 materials that were interchangeable with the 2051? 10 A No. 11 Q I'm going to show you Exhibit No. 1 again 12 and I've turned it to the page that's entitled List 13 of Matters Upon Which UCC is To Be Deposed, and when 14 we started off this deposition, I understood you to 15 be someone that would be testifying as to 16 paragraph 10, what defendant knew about 17 investigations defendant performed regarding the 18 safety of its products or the safety of its product 19 practices and procedures as related to asbestos. 20 What knowledge do you have with respect to 21 paragraph 10 other than what we've already spoken 22 about today? 23 MS. CLARK: I'm just going to again state 24 for the record that this is subject to the 86 87 88 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 limitations previously stated about the extent 2 of his knowledge. Go ahead. 3 A I covered all that I was aware of. I 4 can't say that there weren't others done by other 5 parts of the company. 6 BY MR. KELLY: Q And then the investigations that you're 8 aware of would be the investigations ofthe finished 9 product and the tests that Mr. Nealdid onthe 10 bagging of the asbestos and unbagging the asbestos 11 materials? 12 A Right. I would not be familiar with what 13 the solvents and coatings division did with regard 14 to their asbestos products. 15 Q Do you know the names of any of the people 16 that worked in research and development or in the 17 safety department with respect to thecoatings 18 division? 19 A Coatings division? 20 Q Yes. 21 A It would be the samepeople that 22 interacted with us. 23 Q The next page, paragraph 18, the reasons 24 surrounding Union Carbide'sdecision to remove 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 asbestos and/or phenolformaldehyde from any of its 2 products. I understand you're not going to be 3 talking about the phenolformaldehyde aspect of that, 4 but is there anything about Union Carbide's decision 5 to remove asbestos from the product molding 6 materials other than what we've discussed today? A I think we covered them all. 8 Q Union Carbide knew that the asbestos in 9 its molding materials was hazardous and posed a 10 potential health risk, correct? 11 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, calls 12 for an expert opinion. 13 A Until we ran that test under the worst 14 possible conditions, we did not think it was 15 hazardous. We considered it bound -- that the 16 asbestos was bound into product and that did not 17 pose a health hazard. 18 BY MR. KELLY: 19 Q Let's just talk about the free asbestos 20 though. When Union Carbide received the bags of raw 21 asbestos from Carey or from Vermont, UnionCarbide 22 knew that that chrysotile asbestos was potentially 23 hazardous, correct? 24 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 A Beginning with the introduction of the 2 OSHA test, it was well-known that it was hazardous. 3 BY MR. KELLY: 4 Q Do you know when it was that 5 Union Carbide -- strike that. When did 6 Union Carbide first learn that asbestos was 7 hazardous to humanhealth? 8 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, beyond 9 the scope of what he's being tendered for and 10 also calls for -- well, that's it. 11 A I don't know. 12 BY MR. KELLY: 13 Q During any of the testing that you 14 performed on either asbestos or finished products 15 with respect to your research, did you ever 16 determine whether or not there is a time period by 17 which a fiber of asbestos can remain airborne? 18 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, calls 19 for anexpert opinion. 20 A I don't know. 21 BY MR. KELLY: 22 Q Do you know if asbestos fibers once in the 23 air can travel long distances? 24 A I don't know. 89 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 MS. CLARK: Same objection. You have to 2 wait and give me time to object. Carlo. 3 THE WITNESS: Sorry. 4 BY MR. KELLY: 5 Q Paragraphs 19 and 20 I'm going to take up 6 together. We've already gone through the sales 7 scrolls. Are there any documentswhich 8 Union Carbide maintains withrespect to its sales or 9 attempts to make sales at the Bloomington GE 10 facility other than those sales scrolls? 11 MS. CLARK: I'm just going to object to 12 foundation and also state that the entire 13 repository was made available, that this 14 witness is not able to know or memorize 15 everything that's in that repository. 16 A If there are, I don't know where they are. 17 BY MR. KELLY: 18 Q Do you know where the sales scrolls were 19 kept? 20 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague. 21 A Are you saying originally where they were 22 kept? 23 BY MR. KELLY: 24 Q Well, let's start, first of all, with the 90 91 92 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 ones that are in front of you as Exhibit 9, do you 2 know where those copies came from? 3 A These came from here. 4 Q Do you know if Mayer Brown possesses 5 copies of all of the sales scrolls of 6 Union Carbide's sales of molding materials? A It's my understanding they did a complete 8 search and got everythingthey could thatwas 9 available. 10 Q Where were the records that were searched 11 by Mayer Brown that resulted in the pages of sales 12 scrolls that are marked as Exhibit 9? 13 MS. CLARK: I'm just going to object, 14 foundation. 15 A Could you repeat that again. 16 BY MR. KELLY: 17 Q I simply want to know where are the 18 original sales scrolls that we havecopies of, where 19 do they currently exist? 20 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 21 A I don't know whether Mayer Brown has the 22 originals or not. 23 BY MR. KELLY: 24 Q Have you ever been to the Union Carbide 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 document repository in New York City? 2 A No. 3 Q Did you know there was one? 4 A No. 5 Q Do you know if there's anything that 6 you've ever heard referred to as a document repository as Ms. Clark just mentioned with respect 8 to molding materials? 9 MS. CLARK: Can I get that back. Hang on, 10 Carlo. 11 (The question was read.) 12 MS. CLARK: I'm just going to object to 13 foundation and ambiguous. 14 A Otherthan the ones we talkedabout, we 15 talked about Vermont and we talked about 16 Bound Brook, other than those two I don't know of 17 any others. 18 BY MR. KELLY: 19 Q The only two places, the only two 20 locations that you're aware of where Union Carbide 21 maintains documents with respect to its molding 22 operations is that place in Vermont and Bound Brook? 23 MS. CLARK: Objection, raischaracterizes 24 the testimony, foundation. 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 A If there are others, I don't know where 2 they are. 3 BY MR. KELLY: 4 Q Do you know if either Vermont or 5 Bound Brook is a location where sales records are 6 kept? MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 8 A I don't know. 9 BY MR. KELLY: 10 Q In the other cases which you've testified 11 in in asbestos litigation, have you seen sales 12 scrolls similar to the ones marked as Exhibit 9? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Have you ever seen any other sales 15 documents, whether it be a purchase order or 16 correspondence, relating to a sale with respect to 17 any of the customers that were involved in those 18 other cases? 19 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague, compound. 20 A I think I saw one purchase order. 21 BY MR. KELLY: 22 Q Do you know where the purchase order was 23 found? 24 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 93 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 A In the customer's files. 2 BY MR. KELLY: 3 Q It wasn't something that Union Carbide had 4 maintained? 5 A That's right. 6 Q At least withrespect to documents that 7 Union Carbide has maintained, would it be safe to 8 say that the only documents you'veseen that have 9 been retained are the salesscrollslike Exhibit 9? 10 A Yes. 11 Q Paragraphs 22 and 23, we went through the 12 names of a number of the individuals that you spoke 13 to with respect to your testimony in the Union 14 Carbide molding compound cases. Are there any other 15 individuals that you're aware of that would have 16 knowledge with respect to the sale, supply or 17 delivery of Union Carbide molding materials to GE in 18 Bloomington? 19 A The most knowledgeable person would be the 20 sales rep who calls on Bloomington. 21 Q And do you know who that individual was? 22 A That changed periodically, I don't know 23 who it would be. 24 Q Is there any kind of database or any other 94 95 96 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 moans by which Union Carbide can search to find the 2 name of the sales representative that called on 3 Bloomington back in the 50's, 60's and 70's? 4 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 5 A None that I'm aware of. 6 BY MR. KELLY: 7 Q Paragraph 27, which is the last page, at 8 least the last page of the numbered list, have you 9 seen MSD sheets for any of the materials that were 10 shipped to Bloomington? 11 A Only one. 12 Q And which one was that? 13 A The mica filled 0750. 14 Q And you said before that MSD sheets for 15 all of the chemicals used at Bound Brook were 16 maintained and made available to the employees that 17 worked there, correct? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Were there MSD sheets that were retained 20 for the asbestos materials that were received and 31 used in the manufacturing process? 32 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 23 A At this point I can't say whether there 24 were or not, I don't remember. 5/25/2005Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 BY MR. KELLY: 2 Q You've never seen one in your review of 3 documents? 4 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague. 5 A Well, the documents would not show me 6 whether what was in these binders full of MSD sheets 7 had one on asbestos. That goes back 40 years so I 8 don't know. I never -- I don't recall an instance 9 where I went there andlooked for one myself. 10 BY MR. KELLY: 11 Q Let me ask you this then, when the bags of 12 raw fiber were received from Carey or Vermont, did 13 any of those bags of asbestos have any warning 14 labels on them? 15 A I don't know. 16 Q Have you ever seen any documents that 17 discussed whether or not warning labels were 18 contained on the bags of the raw fiber? 19 A No. 20 Q When did Union Carbide start including MSD 21 sheets with its shipments of molding compound 22 materials? 23 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 24 A I don't know. 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 BY MR. KELLY: 2 Q When was the first time you ever saw an 3 MSD sheet with respect to one of the 4 asbestos-containing molding compounds? MS. CLARK: Same objection -- sorry, go 6 ahead. A Yesterday. 8 BY MR. KELLY: 9 Q And was that the Bloomington MSD sheet? 10 A The one for the 0750. 11 Q Do you know if Union Carbide had an MSD 12 sheet that corresponded with each and every material 13 compound that it made? 14 A I saw a list of MSD sheets for various 15 products and in that they showed all the products we 16 were making in the mid 70's as having MSD sheets. 17 We weren't able to locate them but they claim that 18 they were available. 19 Q What information if any did Union Carbide 20 pass on to its customers like GE in Bloomington with 21 respect to the hazards of asbestos? 22 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 23 A There would be the warning label of course 24 and I don't know what sales were told to communicate 97 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 to our customers when the OSHA test was introduced 2 and when we started changing, removing asbestos from 3 our products. 4 MR. KELLY: That's all the questions I 5 think I have for you, Mr. Martino, other than 6 obviously allowing counsel to ask any questions they may have. I'll just reserve the remaining 8 paragraphs of the notice to be taken up 9 whenever further witnesses are produced based 10 on agreement of the parties. 11 MS. CLARK: Can we take five minutes? I 12 just need a five-minute break, I may have just 13 a couple follow-up questions. 14 MR. TIVIN: Just so you know, I don't have 15 any questions. 16 (A recess was taken.) 17 EXAMINATION 18 BY MS. CLARK: 19 Q Mr. Martino, I want to place before you 20 UCC Exhibit No. 9, the sales scrolls that were 21 referred to earlier, do you see that? 22 A Yes. 23 Q And I just want to clarify, the first two 24 pages of this document. I'll direct your attention 99 98 100 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 to the top right-hand corner? 2 A Yes. 3 Q If you could take a close look and tell 4 us, what is the date on these first two pages? 5 A On the second page it looks like 1968 and 6 the second page looks like 1968 also. I said it was 7 T67. MR. TIVIN: Did you mean the first page? 9 THE WITNESS: The first page, yes. 10 MS. CLARK: And I'll just stipulate, 11 Counsel, that's my understanding too, that this 12 is 1968 and he had said earlier 1967 so I just 13 wanted to clarify that. You're welcome to look 14 at it, if you like. 15 Q Mr. Martino, I just want to clear up a few 16 things. The manufacturer of asbestos-containing 17 phenolic molding compounds ceased in what year? 18 A 1974, the end. 19 Q And you referredearlier to a testthat 20 was run by Doug Neal on the 5303 product, do you 21 recall that? 22 A Yes. 23 Q And I believe you statedthat there were 24 some results as to the number of fibers that were 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 found as a result of that test? 2 A Yes. 3 Q Was there any effort made to determine 4 what types of fibers were collected? 5 A No. 6 Q Are there any -- at that time, at the time 7 the test was run, were there other cellulosic fibers 8 in the 5303 products other than asbestos? 9 A Yes. 10 Q And what were they? 11 A Cotton flock. 12 MS. CLARK: That's all I have. 13 MR. TIVIN: I still don't have anything. 14 FURTHER EXAMINATION 15 BY MR. KELLY: 16 Q Are you familiar with any of the 17 collection methods for airborne asbestos fibers that 18 either OSHA or NIOSH or any other government agency 19 promulgates? 20 A No. 21 Q Do you know if there's reason to 22 distinguish between fiber types when you take an air 23 sample? 24 A Yes, there are. 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 Q And do you know if that's required under 2 each and every one of the various standards for 3 collection of fibers? 4 A I don't know whether it's required or not, 5 I've seen it as part of the procedure. 6 Q Do you know what NIOSH 7400 is? 7 A No. 8 Q What about NIOSH 7402? 9 A No. 10 MR. KELLY: That's all the questions I 11 have. 12 THE WITNESS: Okay. 13 MR. KELLY: Signature? 14 MS. CLARK: We'll reserve. 15 (THE WITNESS WAS EXCUSED.) 16 17 13 10 20 21 22 23 24 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin STATE OF ILLINOIS : ) SS. 2 COUNTY OF C O O K ) 3 GWIN V. PNEUMO ABEX CORPORATION 4 03 L 207 5 I hereby certify that I have read the 6 foregoing transcript of ray 30(B)(6) deposition given 7 on Wednesday, May 25, 2005, consisting of pages 1 3 through 103 inclusive, and I do again subscribe and 9 make oath that the same is a true, correct, and 10 complete transcript of my 30(B)(6) deposition so 11 given as aforesaid, as it now appears. 12 Please check one: 13 I have no corrections 14 Number of errata sheets enclosed. 15 16 17 CARLO F. MARTINO Subscribed and sworn to before me this day of , 20 19 20 Notary Public 21 22 23 24 102 103 104 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 CASE NAME: GWIN V. PNEUMO ABEX CORPORATION 2 DEPOSITION OF: CARLO F. MARTINO 3 DATE TAKEN: May 25, 2005 4 5 PAGE 6 __ 7 __ 8 __ LINE CHANGE 9 _____ 10 _____ 11 _____ 12 __ 13 __ 14 _____ 15 _____ L 6 _____ 17 __ 16 _____ 19 _____ 20 __ 31 __ 22 DATE: 23 SIGNATURE: _____________________________________________ 24 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 The undersigned is not interested in the 2 within case, nor of kin or counsel to any of the 3 parties. 4 In witness whereof, I have hereunto set 5 ray hand and seal of office this 22nd day of June, 6 2005. 7 ___________________________________________ 8 Notary Public 9 10 My commission expires May 1, 2006 11 CSR. NO. 084-004128 12 13 14 15 16 17 13 19 20 31 22 23 24 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 STATE OF ILLINOIS ) ) S. 2 COUNTY OF COOK ) 3 4 I, MARY M. LEWIS, CSR, RPR, in and for 5 the County of Cook, State of Illinois, do hereby 6 certify that on the 25th day of May, 2005, the 30(B)(6) deposition of the witness, CARLO F. 8 MARTINO, was taken before me, reported 9 stenographically and was thereafter reduced to 10 typewriting under my direction. 11 The said deposition was taken at 12 190 South LaSalle Street, Chicago, Illinois, and 13 there were present Counsel as previously set forth. 14 The said witness, CARLO F. MARTINO, was 15 first duly sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth, 16 and nothing but the truth, and was then examined 17 upon oral interrogatories. 18 I further certify that the foregoing is 19 a true, accurate, and complete record of the 20 questions asked of and answers made by the said 21 witness, CARLO F. MARTINO, at the time and place 22 hereinabove referred to. 23 24 105 106 5/25/2005 Martino, Carlo in Gwin 1 EASTWOOD-STEIN DEPOSITION SERVICES & LITIGATION SUPPORT 2 11 South LaSalle Street, Suite 1150 Chicago, Illinois 60603 3 (312) 553-0733 4 June 22, 2005 5 Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw 190 South LaSalle Street 6 Chicago, Illinois 60603 Attn: Ms. Katherine Clark 7 CASE NAME: GWIN V. PNEUMO ABEX CORPORATION 8 CASE NO.: 03 L 207 WITNESS: CARLO F. MARTINO 9 DATE TAKEN: May 25, 2005 10 Dear Ms. Clark: 11 Enclosed is the deposition transcript for the aforementioned deponent in the above-entitled cause. 12 Also included are additional signature pages, if applicable, and errata sheets. 13 Per our agreement to secure signature, please submit 14 the transcript to the deponent for review and signature. All changes or corrections must be made 15 on the errata shets, not on the transcript itself. All errata sheets should be signed and all signature 16 pages need to be signed and notarized. 17 After the deponent has completed the above, please return all signature pages and errata sheets to me 18 at the above address, and I will handle distribution to the respective parties. 19 If you have any questions, please call me at the 20 phone number above. 21 Sincerely, 22 Steve Artstein 23 cc: Mr. Andrew J. Kelly 24 Mr. Mark I. Tivin Mr. John J. Kohnke 107 108