Document RpgggK8GmbB2m82YYvdwE6v7E
FILE NAME Manhattan RBM
DATE 1973-1974
DOC RBM024
DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION Memo RE McGill Study of Asbestos Safety
Garments
Raybestos Raybestos Manhattan Manhattan
DIVISION
Manheim
and
LOCATION
TO
Mr. J. H. Marsh -
Bridgeport
--...-- ---- --...-- ---- ---- --,,----, --------,,----..., -- ---- ---- --,,--w r --s ,_
EL Famer
JM - Denver
DATE March 7 1973
SUBJECT Testing Asbestos Cloth for Release of Airborne Fibres
ie Recently we talked on the
to
determine
the
amount
telephone
of
concerning
the
testing
of
asbestos
and installation or
airborne dust that may be released
on piping
I
fabrication of cloth believe
used
to
wrap thermal
during
I suggested having such tests
installation
outfit
'. was
that
did
the
tests
on
the
asbestos
performed by the same
being investigated by FDA This
containing coats at the time this
inasmuch as my file indicates this
that we would want to get them
probably was not
test was performed
a very good suggestion
by NIOSH and I
involved in investigation of
doubt
our pipe covering
~:
released
concerning during normal
similar
tests
to
determine
the
that McGill University use of asbestos safety clothing
It
amount was
of
fibre
It was also
might be a suitable place to have
recommended
suggested that the Abrado machine
such tests conducted
<
developed by the late
7 release
Since I was not at this
regarding further
meeting I don't know what conclusions
as McGill
action but I know it was
were made
should certify the tests
agreed that a third party such
rather than ATI
facturers involved
ATI
Perhaps Milt Scowcroft
or any of the manu-
thinking or activities on this
can fill you in on the latest
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DIVISION
3-3
LOCATION
Messrs
P. G. Dolan
J. Maclachlan
M. W. Oliver
W. S. Simpson
1. H. Weaver
SUBJECT
McGilMcGilll Study
Garments
March 1 1974
The Dr.
final Gibbs
raised report on Phase I of the
in response to questions
McGill McGill I
study
are
sets of photographs not reproducible by Nerox
John Magenheimer has one set I have the other
and comments by attached Tho
are available
.
I call 11 and are to
are your particular attention to the
12. Engineering improvements be acceptable under the existing
recommendations on pages
essential if the products
federal asbestos standard
The management of
been advised that
Plant 2 airborne
referred asbestos
to in fiber
Dr. Gibb's report has concentrations in the
breathing zones of men wearing asbestos exceeded the threshold limit value of 5 hour work day and that concentrations exceed the excursion level of 10 fibers
garments in their plant
fibers per cc for an over 10 fibers per cc
which
per co permitted for a
period minute
Administration
by the U.S. Occupational Health standard were also observed
and
Safety
Immediate
Immediate
necessary
action
action
in
in
the
to insure that
form
of
engineering
engineering
M products comply
improvements
is
improvements is
with OSHA standards
John H. Marsh
-
AttachmeAnts ttachments
CC
J. Messrs
J. Magenheizer
T. Trainor
|
er
|
INTER ORGANIZATION
TO
Advanced Research
DIVISION
and
Laboratory
LOCATION
.
J. H. Marsh - Bpt
|
DATE Marc4h 1974
SUBJECT
.
McGill Study
I have discussed the possible direction of continuing work at McGill with
Dr. Gibbs He has a number of interesting proposals relative to the
distribution of fiber size and fiber
of project would involve significant
geometry to carcogenicity This type expenditures for information which will
be of value at some indeterminable time in the future
This work should be
done but M is not in a position to fund this type of project from initiation
to completion
I would think that M should definitely participate in this
type of research as a member of AIA ATI or just as an interested party
to We do have access the
with Dr. Gibbs We also
test chamber at McGill have a problem in that
and a good working relationship we know that safety garments
are capable of producing unsatisfactory dust counts We have documented the
problem with Dr. Gibbs and he could document the solution either in the field
or using the dust chamber
The only possible solution for conventional fabric inside of hoods and the outside shoulder area such not exposed to open asbestos fabric
appears to be aluminizing the that the breathing zone is
However filled Novatex has demonstrated its low dustiness for which safety
garments appears to be a perfect application
*
Besides a decrease in dust counts .
during use I'm sure that the Novatex would decrease the asbestos contamination
of workers clothing after the safety garments are removed
I discussed the possibility of aluminized conventional with M. Scowcroft a
months ago he felt
hot
He thought an
think this would be
that it would be too
increase of chemical
satisfactory
expensive and also make the surface coating would help
hoods but I
few too don't
The use of filled Novatex does pose an additional problem in that the fillers
themselves are capable of producing poisonous gases upon thermal decomposition
e.g. neoprene could produce hydrochloric acid or possibly phosgene and nitrile
could give off hydrogen cyanide gas
I have asked Dr. Gibbs about testing
fabrics for emission of these gases at a McGill laboratory
His
was that they could do it but he is checking into it further
initial
feeling
fabric I would recommend then as you suggested in your memo of 3/1/74 that M. Scowcroft|
and J. Hawkins consider immediate engineering improvements of conventional
|
However we should produce a commercial aluminized and filled Novatex as per J.
Trainor's memo to J. Orzechowski of 3/4/74
.
J. H. Marsh March 5 1974
McGill Study Pg 2
Bpt
I would recommend with respect to McGill that we
.
y
1
Use the mitt tester to examine the dustiness of various filled Novatex
samples from Novatex
2
Request Dr. Gibbs to test in the field the new safety garments - either
conventional or Novatex
fe
3 Examine the possibility of testing for poisonous gases at McGill and at other possible locations
A. Let the program specifically money investment lag until suitable samples
have been produced
. John J. Magenheimer
d
CC oc
J. T. Trainor Seccenft
MQ Seccenft Seccenft
JHM
00705
INTER OORGANIZATIORN GANIZATION COMMUNICATION
Raybestos Manhat an Manhattan Raybestos
cue
Raybestos
Manhattan
Manhattan
RaybRestoas RybaesytboseRaysbesttos Roaybesstos
; Manhattan Manhattan Manhattan
SON
Manhattan Manhattan Manhattan
NORTH CHARLESTON
DIVISION
and
NORTH CHARLESTON
LOCATION
S.C.
TO
Mr. John Marsh
DATE March 6 1974
SUBJECT
McGill Study of Asbestos Safety Garments
I have studied the Asbestos Fiber Release From Safety Garments report
by Dr. G. W. Gibbs of McGill University which was received along with
your letter of March 1 1974.
A report of this type must be carefully
critiqued to be of value
I would be remiss if I did not advise that
overall the research was poorly done and I am disappointed in what
report is in
1
British
comparison to what it
have
ADVANTEC sv
SOME vo SOME
ADVANTEC Ss ADVANTEC
Procedure Used CILITE Lengte ADVANTEC ADVANTEC
Sricu CILITE Lengte 00 4m
SAFETY
SAFETY
Le
For sampling and counting the NIOSH procedure should have been
used
Several differences may introduce new variables
NIOSH
the
thinks that their the membrane
procedure
is
superior
particularly dissolving
2
3
4
Unidentified Fabrics
.
Of the 45 tests conducted 29 were on unknown materials
/
material was compared against unknown products
It would have
been very easy to identify these products to the extent of
knowing the weight finish etc.
They were identified as
uncoated
Some coatings are difficult to distinguish and I
question in plant 1 whether the unknown fabrics were treated
Sampling Technique
Filter over the coat but under the hood and unobserved pg 3
It is important to know how long the filter was under the hood
etc.
We do
it may come
not know from the
the source hood
of
the
dust Dr.
7
Gibbs
implies
M Treated Fabric Was Dustier
M 71-1173 was treated with an adhesive to hold the dust and
lint in place
Visually the cloth is very clean
The McGill
report indicates uncoated fabric
it I
to be about twice as
question this could
dusty as unknown samples be crossed
or 1173 not actually used A serious problem here
up
= PLAINTIFF'S
r
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Mr. .
Mr. John Marsh
-2-
March 6 1974
5 6
High Counts At Plant 2
NECEITARILY A count of 26.2 from a safety garment sounds unreal
If this
count was obtained the operator is working in a visual cloud -
of dust
It would take severe abrasion and abuse to
a
count of 26.2 from a garment
+6
NECEITARILY NECEITARILY
NOT NECEITARILY
Miscellaneous Areas
Table A
Table A
Table A Table A
Table 6
Calculations are not correct for C3 in many cases
Dates of survey are incorrect Only one count given
YEAR
MONTH
DayDay
a7) rice
Footnotes about of the report
suits
are
not related
Evinusly Evinusly
to the
rest
> 4 weeks - 112.3 is incorrect
I do not think that the report is worthy of being published in its
form
present
immediately If the dust originates from the hood I would recommend that M
more highly coated product for this use
A product of this
be made available
type
offer could
I think my comments may be of
would be glad to discuss them
help
with
jje
to Dr. him on
Gibbs in future
the telephone
work
and I
jje John
jje
jje
Hawkins
ch
Foe. BENITO
Canc
CILT
WINE
oh
00643
T. Trainor - Trumbull 6/17/74 Size Distribution of Novatex Pg 2
Fibers
If you have any disagreements let me know
John 9. Magenheimer
.
d
CC
Marsh J. Marsh
.. Orzechowski
sa '-
ae
me
baevi
00496
mA .
3
Oe
7
INTER
ORGANIZATION
ORGANIZATION
COMMUNICATION
Raybestos
Raybestos
;
RaRyay bb eessttoos s
= .
Manhattan
Manhattan
Advanced Research
DIVISION
and
Laboratory
LOCATION
10
i
SUBJECT
|
T. Trainor - Trumbull
McGill
:
oO
4
Size Distribution of Novatex Fibers
J. Marsh's memo to you of 6/6/74
.
Trumbull tel tel Trumbull
|
J
Trumbull
Trumbul Trumbull TruTrmumbbullull TrumbullTrumbul Trumbull
.
DATE
6/17/74
I discussed the above memo with John last
opinion concerning the work being done at
proposal
week in order
Edinburgh and
to give him my
Dr. Gibbs research
feeling Wth heat I wanted to point out to John was the fact that at the present time
relationship between the inhalation of fiber and disease is not understood
This is demonstrated by the fact that Dr. Holmes in his letter to Mr.
used phrases such as
the effect of fibers
Hills
must have been ... not
likely to be very hazardous must surely ... and one would
expect The work at Edinburg will help to increase our understanding of the problem but we cannot expect it to state that Fortex fibers
If research is continued in this area we might expect sufficient ar ie nfosramfaetion
in five to ten years but one study is not enough
This means that Dr. Gibbs
study of Novatex fiber size distribution would at best give us a
concerning the problems with Novatex material
The previous study at McGill has shown that filled Rovatex releases fewer fibrils
than treated conventional
Filled wet processed material is in all liklihood
the and
safest asbestos
use standpoint
textile possible with present technology
An awful lot of research will
both
from production
this statement is modified
ct
pass under the bridge before
_
M is faced with a number
demand by
significant capital
feel that we have a
present technology towards
customers
of diverse asbestos dust problems all of which expenditures at a time when capital is hard to come
responsibility to use this capital and the best making our products safe both for our workers and our
a
Considering these factors I think the proposed study at McGill is ill timed
If however Dr. Curtiss at NIOSH wished to study fiber distributions I think it
would be to our advantage to cooperate
.
support I also told John that in my opinion we must notify our customers in the safety
garment industry
Dr. Gibbs
of
the
McGill
results
at U.S.
Steel
and
Irco
As he suggested
have M me rn ep to ir ot nedshoas ulda b seour pc ue bliosfhed as soon as possible and I would prefer to
We also discussed the fact that M at the present time does not make an
fabric which is acceptable for use in safety garments
This would
embarrassing position when the McGill results
put us
as J. Orzechowski and I have
are published
The obvious
discussed is to get a filled Novatex on the
ASAP
;
asbestos in an
answer
market
eu.
N. PLAINTIFF'S
PEDIGAD
80
654
INTER ORGANIZATION COMMUNICATION
RaybestoRsMaMybaesntohsaattann hattan
Advanced Research Laboratory
DIVISION
and
LOCATION
TO
So J. Marsh - Trumbull
DATE
7/15/74
SUBJECT
McGill Study of Asbestos Safety Garments
Ref M.Q. Scowcroft's Memo of 6/28/74
I have read Milt Scowcroft's memo concerning the McGill Study and I discussed it further with him over phone on Thursday
Milt has brought out some important points which determining the best approach towards Dr. Gibb's
like to make some comments on this memo
should help in
report I would
Our contract with Dr. Gibbs for the McGill Study in question stated
as the objective To determine the exposure of a man to asbestos
fiber during the normal use of asbestos safety garments in industry
The determination of the specific source of the i.e. hood coat or
mitts is an obvious extension of this study which was not pursued for
a variety of reasons
There was also a lack of proper identification
of the fabrics involved which was my responsibility However the
objective of the report was to determine the dust levels under normal
use and this done in a scientific manner
\ I agree with Milt's premise that most of the dust arises from the hood
Some of it Bamber and
probably does come from the coat and mitts as shown Butterworth Ann Occup Hyg 13 77-80 1970 but
by I agree
that we should work under the assumption that the hood is the problem
I think Dr. Gibbs article can be written in such a way
surface treatment of fabrics reduces the dust levels
the Tribestos treatment and John Hawkins present work
I think we can obtain a possible salses advantage from
as to imply that Combining this with on the hood fabric
the article
~~
Dr. Gibbs report will in all liklihood be published The only thing
we can affect is the time of publication and possibly the tone
Until
the article is published Milt's program of informing his customers will
assist in making this information public
I would suggest suggest that he extend
the caution to the use of any uncoated asbestos fabric for safety garments
/
Once John
.,
Hawkins
has
engineered
the
textile
fabric
for
the hoods
we
should be prepared to set up a test to verify the improvements
Jahim John J. Magenheimer
.
dt
CC M. Scowcroft - Charleston
IL PLAINTIFF'S
JHAL
00624
Jd Jd
Mr. M. Q. Scowcroft
McGill Study of Asbestos Safety Garments
July
24
1974
As John Magenheimer has previously commented on your
June 28 concerning the McGill study I will limit my to the following
letter of observations
1.
The McGill study confirms earlier British studies
showing that in normal use asbestos safety garments
release concentrations of asbestos fibers in
excess of permissible limits
2 There is evidence that aluminizing or otherwise treating the fabric will significantly reduce the amount of fiber
,
released
3
Asbestos safety garments are necessary for the protection
of workers in essential industries
4
The safety garment industry must take measures to insure
that users inhalation
of of
asbestos asbestos
garments are protected from fibers and that the use of such
garments does not violate the OSHA Asbestos Standard
5
M has the knowledge and capabilities needed to lead
the industry in the development and marketing of
asbestos safety garments
If there is further delay
we will lose the advantage we now have
Copies of two attached
British
studies
and
a nemorandum
from Stephen
+
-
Holmes
arc
-
Attachments
CC
Messrs P. C. Dolan
J. F. Maclachlan
J. J. Mugenheimer
W. S. Simpson
3. T. Trainor
1.
John H. Marsh pis