Document Rax2ogm4b1450KQpNQa3rG3KX

FILE NAME: Garlock (GAR) DATE: 1986 Dec 4 DOC#: GAR042 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Legal - Deposition of GE Houghton with BC Notes EVH*.Of''--- ?^ 4 /3- ^7 3 . r U jr ^ y i. O ' /fz-7W?3? ^0yp^2sAAy*> 2- &^<^c&-xs ^ x-o*a An 7 ^ ^^Hylo^ia -PUZfi &/ K < f /y -y~^*y2>, y x ^ Jl -/h /-/vV^ t e ^ f Y i Afi&tyjf'sf ^'Zks'^Sfcc- 7i/^^Tu^/lsd. % y' fi*?"3 yfcs^ue; ^AfififiAfi ^c^o-e-tP C^TOT^yAAcAAo ~Oi^_ ^.^^AcOfiA y ^ 1-c-^e-n~* y/yoA h^?iLf *f & 'U^anfiZn y /?Y & fi c& rU'Ay^^jUSi>A&-^ OUZ'Z -- ..-+ a * fi V 1g,7? C^*fif'M4-^!* * *, r / j S cf. rt&-^0yfi-i~TM~~c,'L ^ vv^ W a .' %y:A.? y /n_e_ a -fyu{ i^zyJ 97o *~9 Y ffl/f 47n&A/&&/vacfiA' l*n-\w->~-<227 A& --^7tsz. / / ? Wifi^o $7 jS-yTzz^t^^ /99&=>/j7/va .yti^ y y y ^ ^ k f A - -ccca^ceP //C<y f T ? A yfiAfiA^ *oO/s^^ (AA^\ )A/^Ct'AyfiA^tpAfifiA7^'C*?' /y^ / ?5~Zo '7'ZlA'i,^ t ^ i / ' 'Coecsiy y' y -- ^ a a <?p j? s?r? ,/^fZs- "/<?i?p> 0 3s><(o-oicV "^ t ' . ^ y y y / ^ ^(Oyu-./y^'y^^aye.- yAy&yy/] /Pf y yAct'Upp-C^/ y? 7/^ c09-'l-i.^ i,, -- CIRCUIT COURT 07 TEI CITY 07 CHESAPEAKE, VIRGINIA WILLIAM STACEY OVERBY, vma GARLOCK INC. Plaintiff, Defendant. Docket No. 20585-M Deposition of GEORGE ELWOOD HOUGHTON, held at 516 Meet Main Street, Palayra, New York on December 4, 1986, conaen- cing at lOtOO a.a. APPEARANCES: GLASSER and GLASSER, ESQS. Suite 400 126 St. Paul Boulevard Norfolk, Virginia 2S610 Appearing on behalf of the Plaintiff By: RICHARD S. GLASSER, ESQ., of Counsel DUANE and SHANNON, ESQS. The Joynee Houae 209 Meet Franklin Street Rlchaond, Virginia 23220 Appearing on behalf of the Defendant By: JAMES C. SHANNON, ESQ., of Counsel ALSO PRESENT: BERNARD L. LEVINTHAL, ESQ. HELEN ZORNOW REPORTED BY: CAROL P. RABS Midtown Reporting Service 1100 Tines Square Building Rochester, New York 14614 (716) 326-2130 DEPOSITION EXHIBIT czMidtoum cRepoxtiny cSexvicc sot D 03660 I- i CIRCUIT COURT OF T U CITY OF CHBSAPEAU, VIROIRIA WILLIAM STACEY OVERBY, wrtoa OARLOCK INC Plaintiff, Dockat No. 20555-M Dafendant. Deposition of GEORGE ELffOOD HOUGHTON, held at 516 Mast Main Street, Palayra, New York on Deceaber 4, 1966, conaen- cing at 10 :0 0 a.n. APPEARANCES: CLASSER and GLASSER, ESQS. Snlta 400 125 St. Paul Boulevard Norfolk, Virginia 23610 Appearing on behalf of the Plaintiff By: RICHARD S. GLASSER, ESQ., of Counsel DUANE and SHANNON, ESQS. The Joynee House 209 Nest Franklin Street Richmond, Virginia 23220 Appearing on behalf of the Defendant By: JAMES C. SHANNON, ESQ., of Counsel ALSO PRESENT: BERNARD L. LEVINTHAL, ESQ. HELEN ZORRON REPORTED BY: CAROL P. RAES Midtown Reporting Service 1100 Tinea Square Building Rochester, New York 14014 (716) 326-2130 cMiJtoum czReportiny eSetoice SOI 7 m vi cSfMM* OE m itjif D 03660 2 INDEX TO WITNESSES GEORGE ELWOOD HOUGHTON Examination by Mr. Glassar Examination by Mr. Shannon 3 - 106 106 - 107 INDEX TO E X H I B I T S EXHIBIT NO. DESCRIPTION MARKED 1 Pour-page document; first page reading "Mr. Bristol" and "Important" 49 2 Asbestos Textile Institute sinutes of June 19. 1946 asetlng 69 3 March 13, 1946 Dust Control Meeting J inutes 64 4 June 13, 1946 Dust Control Coamlttee inutes 67 6 86 pages of documents; first document being "Report Preliminary Dust Investi gation Por Asbestos Textile Institute, June 1947" 75 6 Minutes of March 8 , 1986 meeting of Asbestos Textile Institute 81 .i1: - 7 Minutes of March 7, 1956 seating of Asbestos Textile Institute 81 ! D 03661 il M UawL -.7,P.'Spyo*A.^JLSl.L, 3 1 MR. SHANNON: 2 3 4 8 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 29 There 1 one stipulation. I'll read it froa a letter of Septeaber 6 to ae froa Robert Hatton. Paragraph 4 of that letter states, "The deposition of George Elwood Houghton will proceed at .,a~<tla and,.place convenient to Garlock and the witness, within three weeks of this dats and, of course, we have by agreeaeat,.abrogated that.particular date requlrMsid.. such-deposition*. itwebiiXl seal and not be- used:u ndwr%eSCMan^nR9^b in cases In which the 1iwnfisTTJf GlRswir sad Glasser or Patten, N o r m a ^ P l S Q E t t ^ a r counsel of I. Thiq^gg^y^loB-will be noticed in a w a r whlcfettlitlWi^ t h e attend the deposit4an other thee flarlnrfclg deposition- relevant 'i1 tn the iiliebllitr efr other liability litigation. Cap-look grove that the dopesItiou way Us cMiJtoutn ^Reporting eSettrice SOt 'Jim ti cSfM ff `BuiUimy ................... . i D 03662 4 1 renotlced. t*-parait 4 fen counsel an 2 opportunity to participt In the deposition 3 end have it in a fora that would-h*^. 4 adaieeible In litigation in which other 5 defendants were involved." 8 As a follow up to that letter of 7 Septeaber 8 , I responded to Bobby Hatton on 8 Septeaber 18, and the following portion of ay 9 letter of Septeaber 18 is also pertinant to 10 the taking of thla deposition. "Also, I 11 understand that your agreeaent not to use 12 this deposition other than in a case in which 13 you are counsel of record refers to your 14 involveaent .as counsel who originated a 15 particular plaintiff's cass. He do not 18 understand," we, being Oarlock, "that ws have t 17 agreed that you are eligible to be associated 18 in other plaintiffs' lawyers' cases around 19 the country and use your etatue as counsel of 20 record to offer this deposition against 21 Oarlock therein." So under thoee teras and 22 conditions we're hors today to proceed with 23 Mr. Houghton's deposition. <zMiJtoum cRepoxtiny cSctoice SO! Oimti cSfusu HaiUiaq 0 03443 6 1 MR. GLASSBR: 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 16 16 17 18 jc. 19 ' 20 21 22 23 If I M y M k e a preliminary coimnt, aa Jia Shannon is well aware, X am associated with Bobby Hatton, and X aa aware of both Bobby's letter of September 6 , 1986 and Jia Shannon's response of September 18, 1986, both of which you have accurately reported to the record. X do went to M k e sure that ay feelings are known that the letter of September 5, 1966 confirmed e,settlement that was M d e in ten cases in which Garlock was a defendant. These ten cases were either handled by ay office or by Bobby Hatton's office or by our offices jointly, and they were pending either in the state of Virginia or in the state of Texas. The provision concerning Mr. Houghton's deposition and that it be placed under seal and other provisions calling for basically a temporary moritoriua in discovery were requested by Garlock, were a part and parcel of the settlement procedure, and ae Jia has consented to so that wa could in fact resolve the differences for the ten plaintiff that we were cMiJtown cRcpoxtintj cSetoicc 30/ c5fur* e3uiUiny ................. 0 03664 6 1 representing. They were consented to by the 2 plaintiffs; eyself. Included. I asks this 3 stateaent because I'a not in favor of sealed 4 depositions. It was not ay desire that it be 5 placed under seal, bat it was-, as Jin 6 reported, a part of the'discussions that 7 ended with the- resolution of ten cases. With 8 that coaaent-, <X'a proposed to proceed and I 9 - would ask you please to^sweavr the witness. 10 MR. SHANNON: We're reserving all objections except 11 as to the fora of the question. j 12 MR. GLASSER: That1 correct. jI i 13 i 14 G E O R G E E L W 0 0 D H O O G H T O W , called herein 15 as having first been duly ewera , was exaained i 16 and test*#fsdf as follows: 17 18 KXMttilTIOW BT MW. OLASSBR: . J.'? 19 Q ^ Before I ask you any foraal questions, I just wanted to 20 let you hear ay voice a little bit as I will be talking 21 to you once the foraal questioning starts to aako sure 22 that you can hear as and understand as. Do you 23 undsrstand? cMidtotvn Reporting (Service 501 lim a (Squat* HutfJiaq 0 03445 I 7 1A 2q 3A 4Q 7h . I notice thet you're wearing two -- I have it In both ears/ yea. -- two hearing aides, and you have told ne before the 8 depoeition started you night need queetlone repeated, 6 so If at any tine you don't understand ny question or 7 I'a not clear, please don't hesitate to*ask dd to 8 repeat or to rephrase. 9A I won't. 10 Q And if at any tine you want to take a breakor a rest 11 for whatever reason, if you will tell ue we will 12 pronptly do so. 13 A Yes. 14 Q And we havehere with us today ateveryone'srequest 18 Helen Zornow who is a nurse and she'll aleo be looking 16 out for you. 17 THE WITHBSSt You can see ay eyes, all right? 18 MRS^^varZOmON! Yes. 19 Q ~ You're coafortable and you're ready to begin? 20 A 21 Q 22 23 A I'n relaxed. ji YhaUkyoe, sir. Just so the record will he oleer, Mr. j i Houghton, would you state your full naae? |i My full is nans is George 11wood, M - w - e - o - d , ! cMiJtoum Reporting Service SO/ 'Dim*i cSfiMtf ImlfJimf 0 03666 8 1 Houghton > H-o-u-g-h->t-o-n. I. go by ny w o c n d none, 2 Elwood. - 3Q And today lo Doconbor 4th, 19007 - - 4I A 0Q Correct.-- * ... - And wo ars'-ct yonr h M M l M f t l f t d l n 8 M M o 0 8 n r t ? i n 6 Palayra, Hew Tank. ' 7A TOO, 14022. v m -- . 'i. na~- o 8Q Mr. Houghton/ have you ylym- any p w t w o r n testimony 9 In n y asbestos-related natter?' 10 A 11 Q Yes, we have had the investigations. And what type of investigations were they? 12 A I'd say slnilar to what you're going to carry out. 13 Q And can you tell ae about how aany tines you have had 14 teetinony like this that you have given? 15 A I'd say slnilar. I've been aeked questions. 16 Q Have they been with the presence of a court reporter? 17 A I don't recall any of that being done. 18 Q Were they Involving only attorneys fron Garlock or did 19 - they also Involve attorneys like ayself who -- 20 A It would be both. 21 MR. GLASSERt Off the record. 22 (Whereupon a dicsussion was held off the record.) 23 Q Have you ever been called upon to give any etateaents cMidtoum cRepottinq cSnoice so t lim tt cSq.jtl `BuiUinf o 03647 9 1 2 3A to any legislative body or to eny trade association concerning asbestos? I Mas the representative froa Oarlock to Asbestos 4 6Q 6 Textile Institute. I will discuss that with you later on in our discussion. Have you ever written anything concerning 7 asbestos? 8A My aajor writings have 6een regarding the asbestos 9 spinning operation. 10 Q 11 And do you have copies of what you wrote concerning the asbestos spinning operation? 12 A I sight possibly have soae, but they would be buried in 13 file papers. I'd have to search. Z don't know. 14 Q Can you tell se during what tine fraae you did writings IS concerning asbestos spinning? 16 A Well, that was while I was active with Asbestos 17 Textlls Institute. I think it was probably about 18 .7-1662 to 1970. Any report I alght have made would 19 '" have been probably about 1968, in that neighborhood. 20 Q 21 22 A I 'a going to drop back, Mr. Houghtoo, and ask you if you will review for as year educational background. I graduated froa Westown's School in Pennsylvania in 23 1924. That was a college preparatory eehool. I cMidtown Reporting Service 301 'Jimtt a au 'BuiUimj D 03668 10 1 attended Philadelphia Text11a -- Philadelphia Textile-- 2 no. It m i called -- Tee, Philadelphia Textile School 3 wee the naae of it. It was located at Broad and Pine - niir n r r in . r j 4 In Philadelphia at that tlae. It has been changed froa 5 6 7Q Philadelphia Textile to Philadelphia College of -V .u .. Textiles and Science now. t - ~t How long did you attend there? 8A That was a three-year course. " " 9Q Did you learn anything during that schooling period 10 11 A about the uee of asbestos as a textile? No. 12 Q Old yougraduate froa thePhiladelphia Textile School 13 approximately 1927? 14 A 19*7. 15 Q And following your graduation, what was the first type 16 of eapleyaeut that you had? 17 A I nosed free school right to Johns-Maavllls Corporation 18 X * a e a ' 19 Q '= What MM#J$fte nature of your eaployeent at 20 21 A Johns -- aiIlls or field? I woe la theasbestos textileaanufacturlng which 22 involved fiber preparation, spinning sad twisting and 23 weaving asbestos cloths and yarns. <zMiJtoum cRepottiny cSetuicc SOI 'Jim t) cSfiMM 'SutfJimf J 0 0366? 11 1Q That was your specific responsibility? 2A Yes, I was there for 12 years, and so I noved fros 3 learning the trade and then up to you' eight say an 4 engineer of various operations. 1 had exposure to all 3 of the operations fros the fiber preparation where 6 fibers were sold as such and''spinning into asbestos 7 yarn, carding and twisting*, weaving. I'b#caae ' 8 acquainted with braiding, which was in the neighboring 9 department, so I had a pretty bfbfcd education; also in 10 safety clothing manufacturing. "1 ~ ' j 11 Q Primarily, if I' understand yotf coM%tIVY"your 12 experlenoe at Johns-Manvl1le was with the asnufacturing 13 of asbestos cloth and asbestos yarns? 14 A That's right. 15 Q Row such occasion did you have to see and be around the 16 aachlnee where the fibers were prepared, spun and 17 twisted lh the aanufacturlng process? 18 A I'd eey dbeplste knowledge of the aechanlcal .rr. . ... .. .. ... 19 1 pfiacsesoe . X was sent to set ap textile and Instruct 20 21 Q 22 people act the handling of the equipment. And did year Job responsibility relate to the equipment itself and how it ehould be eat up free ax engineering 23 standpoint? c M idtown cRepotting cSetuicc SOt Oimti cSfitff . o . . t ................ V . o 03670 12 1A Tn . 2Q Did yon also hays a role. concerning how tha dost would 3 ba vent H a t td or control lad? I'a apaakipo of,#sbe*tos 4 duat that wag aanaratad d u r ^ t ^ v^rijpi^f p^pcasaeo of 5 tha manufacturing that yxm,1va daacribad. 6 7Q What waa aval labia in tte.4927-1^9 tiwe %awu,to 8 enable you t g ^ t o .f f l U t r o l , - 9A Mora or lesa ygur,,.Rwifc ingenajty^ I daa.'fc.thlflfciWS had 10 auch in actual aagnificationa or duat-atudying 11 equipment. 12 Q Did thay hava exhaust faaa and ventilation? 13 A Yea. 14 Q Did thay hava hooda that could fit ovar duaty araaa to 15 gathar and raaova tha dart? 16 A That waa particularly trwa la flint praparation and 17 carding, tana haoding waa aipllad ta looaa. 18 Q - Did thay also understand that you could aaparata or 19 iaolata a dusty process so that the dust that was being 20 created would not go all ovar tha work environaent? 21 MR. SHANNON: I object to tha leading of that 22 question. 23 A Tha hooding was designed for that, yes. cMidtoum cReportiny cSetuicc SOI cSqiuu 'BttiUiaf q 03671 13 1Q You or aworo that In the-19*T to-tftP tiaefraae 2 thoro eera loo respirator 'that-were available? 3 MR. SHANNON: I object tot h e loading 4 5 6 handliDf'ofstesI, a i i f l E B i f l ^ ' 7Q 8 Ho ero roaplratoro used r'by<the on ho handled the stock and ere in-the various aanufacturing processes? 9 MR. SHANNON: I object to that, ft elecharacterizes 10 hie foraer teetiaony. 11 A 12 It ould be used because it as recognized ae a dusty area. Tha 13 governaent at that M itt -iiTrt ffflTY aUfflfl. *-- not 14 16 studies that s a w dona .UAhalM*-- 16 17 in and aaka analyass=.a4ases-- ddaa*aaewr,ee^teT-nd 18 1 Q 20 . IJjie uiiiTif the federal raqairaiasisi You aantioned 6 aicrone per cubic foot. Could that have been 6 i l H l ^ - p i t f t M ^ b f ^ M l e A t ? 21 A A aicron. I think, le a ten thousandth of a 22 ailliaeter. I think. I'a not positive on that, but a 23 aicron ae a nicroscopic aeasureaent. c M idtown (Reporting cSetoice SOt cSqumxt 0 03672 14 1Q Z understand what a aicron la. My question* Mr. 2 Houghton* is that the standard that you described? 3 Think back and say would you agree that that standard 4 was 5 aillion particles of total dust in a cubic foot? 5A No, it would be 5 aicrons in an examination microscopic 6 examination area. I think the sampling was taken 7 against a glass plate* and ttw$ was magnified, and 6 the particles are counted in 9 certain, area on that 9 magnified sample. 10 Q Let me try to clarify. There was a standard that you 11 tried to stay within* and in determining size* there 12 were microscopes available in order to allow the dust 13 that had been gathered in testing to be counted. 14 MR. SHANNON: I object as the leading. He hasn't 15 testified to that. 16 A This measurement device I'm mentioning was not 17 available to me until Z was at Oarlock. 18 Q *_ I understand, but at Johns-Manville, they were able to 19 u p t a k e dust counts. 20 A Ths insurancs company did that. 21 Q And whan they took dust counts* they will then count 22 it under a microscope* is that correct? 23 A That's the way I understand they did it. cMidtoum cRepotting cSetoice so t Oimtt tSqmxt HuifJtmf . f . . t .......... o 03673 1 2 3 I 9 6 I 7 I 8 i* 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 ,21 22 15 And they had standard that they tried to stay within when they were dealing with aebeetos duet? Yes. a standard for asbestos dust in the 192? to 1939 tins frame? cMidtown cRepottinq eSctaice SO/ 'Jtm ti cSfc `BuiU iuf cV,,,. H /jri I 4 t'4 D 03674 16 1 low. I II 2q Your fork m priaarily-atr-the level where- the j 3 Manufacturing aachinea warbeing-designed.developed | 4 and uaad? | i 9A Z waa aaaociated with the aachinaa producing the 6 aatarial, but Z woa iofc.caMaitdi wiUi A h daaigning of 7 cards-oe^ fiber preparatieu:-Zdld do soae-deeign work 8 9Q 10 on laaaaii . | Did your design work on the looae taka into I I conaideration how beemttalriiMdust- that, could becut j 11 out by tha aabaatoa fiber.that ware being spun in ! 12 looaa? j 13 A 14 15 16 Q Any equipoant designed would be to act like a vacuus I cleaner but not get in tha way of the Manufacturing i operation of tha equipoant. j And by vacuua cleaner, they hod vucuua cleaner in the Ij 17 1927-1986 period, is that correct? |I 18 A -v. Yea, they had fans and hoods connected with the vacuua, j 19 20 Q And the vacuua cleaner affect woo to reaoae the excess 21 duet without interfering with the Manufacturing 22 proceee? 23 A Yee. He realised that to pick up dust, you had to i <zMiJtoum cRepotting cSexuice SOI Oimtt cSqumu D 03675 17 1 approach aa closely as<posedble to tha aovsaants that 2 war taking placa to ba affactiva. 3Q And you wanted to raaova tha aabaatoa duet froa the 4 work environaent to avoid any hazarda aaaociated with 5 breathing too much aaboatoa duet? 6 MR. SHANNON: Z object to tha lead!ng-questione, 7 Richard. Ha^haaa't aaid anything about 8 aabeatoa duat. He' talked about duat. If 9 you're going to aak why* aak hia. Don't tell 10 hia. 11 MR. 6LASSBR: 12 13 14 15 I want to Bake it vary clear that I have a right to lead thla wltnaea, and that I I don't think an objection aa to leading ie i appropriate* and I feel that ay queetione are ! proper aa atructured. Z understand your 16 objection, and you may object aa to fora if J i 17 you faal it'a appropriate, and obvlouley, I 16 would want to have an chanca to raphraae it, 19 but I do feal that leading la peralssible j 20 here. I 21 MR. SHANNON: I underetend that under tha conditions 22 wa're working under today. I feel you night | 23 be advised to be very clrcuaspeet in your c M idtown ^Reporting eScxoice 301 'Jim* cS^w.t, 'Buifjimy 0 03674 i 18 1 leading questions considering Nr. Houghton's 2 3 MR. CLASSER: age end considering his hearing difficulties. I'a trying but I feel ay questions are 4 5 6Q proper In terms that he Is a `long-tera Oarlock employee?' * -- Don't you concern yourself with*the lawyers talking. 7 He're talking to th judge tffl&'dldn' t want to cone up 8 and brave th Snow wlth uS'. '* 9 (Whereupon the Reporter'Vead~baefc`'tl!eet>ending ' 10 question.) 11 Q 12 Do you remember my question that I asked before I talked with Jim Shannon? 13 A X didn't have a machine like that, X know. 14 Q Let me repeat my question as beet X can. 16 16 17 18 A as(^lMecelotk, 19 Q 20 21 A 22 q 23 op aassbeet Yes, t h a t * * x o n n | And-even hlg asbestos pei nsntage cMiJtoum <zRepotting Service 5 0/ lim tt tS^utu Hvltjiaj 0 03677 19 1A j g n j H g n ^ 9 5 percent. 2 3 auch of the asbestos dust as could be done so as- to 4 0 6A reducs any hazard to the., workers. j*hpj*puld .be.,breathing ths dust? ; ; ^ 7Q And that's bscauss It as known t|wt ths brsathing of 8 asbestos dust could be haraful to those who breathed 9 it? 10 MR SHANNON: 11 12 13 14 13 16 I object to that. 1 think it was known that the breathing of any dust could be j haraful to those breathing it, as we know j ( that people who worked in cotton aills today have brown lung and other diseases. X object j ji to your question as it iaplles special knowledge that this aan has about the hazard 17 of asbestos dust, and no such knowledge has 18 been established. 19 Q 20 21 22 A 23 that It waa^iapertaat to H a l t 1 t h a t ^ id i e w breathdd? ashSffde dust J You1rd"'leoEIng"~at M s t e i T M i i H W | p | I P V P P M l leelining i We IHiil back I cMiJtoum cRtpoxtinq cService SOI `Jimtt tSfumu D 03678 20 1 tlw ymurt; in other words, 2 w e ^ V ^ K S s s o m sort of progress. We have not been 3 swsrs ell that tine of everything that we now know. 4Q Z understand, but thiy known Ism She'ttlO^e when you were 5 at Johns-Manville the.4,t^mee lepui t^itahevhryato -.. 6 control and H a l t thr.ianimt 1 \mwlmmhue tuel tlist thn 7 aanufactaring procees t h panel . In 8 i 9Q And part of your jobr as an engineer working In the | i 10 asbestos textile manufacturing wae to help with the j 11 deeign to liait the dust. 12 MR. L8VXNTHAL: I object to that. It alscharacterizes ^ 13 his prior testlaony as to what involvement he j 14 had with it. 10 MR. GLASSKR: Jin and I are nodding at each other. 16 If we can have one, it will make the sides 17 fair and confora to our court rules. i 18 MR. fSAnOWt That's right. Z will have to sake i 19 the objectlone. I will aake that ay j 20 objection and we'll proceed. 21 (Whereupon the reporter read back the pending 22 question.) 23 Q Zs that correct? c M idtown (Repotting cSetoice SOt Utmt, c$q*dJtc D 0367? 21 1A 2Q 3 4 9 6A 7 8 9Q 10 11 A 12 Q 13 A 14 Q 18 18 17 A 18 19 Q 20 21 22 A 23 That's on of the duties, yes. What progress can you describe to ae that was aade In I Halting dust while you were at Johns~Manville? Did you play any role In helping to reduce the dust of the workers? I get confused with knowing that I did aore actively work here, but at Johne^ManvillVpay job wae not designing particularly for dust control. And you say when you became aore active "here," you sean once you becaae an eaployee at' Oarlock? Z was a superintendent here. And "here" Is the Oarlock plant at Palayra, New York? Yes. While you were at Manville, was there any discussion i that you can recall concerning the hazard that could occur to a person who breathed too auch asbestos? j To ay position there, I think I did not get in on those j engineering discusslone. ! i Can you tell as how you learned that there was a j standard that you should strive to stay within when ji dealing with the quality of asbestos duet? Z can't give you a good answer when Z learned that it j I would be beet to keep it at e certain level. Z think cMidtovon cRepottiny cSetaice 50/ 'Jim ti cSfucit D 03680 I 22 1 probably casual discussions would b# the best I could 2 say. 3Q While you were at Manvllle? 4A Johns-Manvllle. 5Q While you were at Manvllle did you have any occasion 6 to attend any aeetlngs or educational eealnars 7 concerning' your engineering expertise relative to 8 asbestos textile aanufacturing?' ^ 9A 10 11 Q 12 Ho seainare. Practical experience on the job was probably the aajor -- where I picked up mforaation. Who were in your opinion the aost knowledgeable i people at Manvllle concerning the need to control dust 13 while you were there? I 14 A Z think Mr. Cannon Phil Cannon wae probably the | j i 15 cloeeet. I don't think you'd have such inforaation 18 froa hla now. 17 Q He'e deceased? 18 A Tee. 19 Q ` Old you know Clifford Sheckler? 20 A I think Z know the naae but Z don't think Z associated 21 with hla any. 22 Q Did they have a aedlcal departaent at the Manvllle 23 plant? cMidtown (Reporting cSetuice SOI <7imei eSqmu HuiiMmj o 03481 23 Later they worked into a need for a nurse, but when I wee there, they had a doctor, but aoet of the aedical treataente were Bade in the office of the factory; very Halted aedical service at the beginning Were you aware as tQnWfcejtherfchesa .had baas any Workaen's Coapansatlon~culfcaAIlid against Manville in the 1930'a for ssbfjfeps,,0tssaas? r. ,ix. I was act aaara.of^aai-llftitkethat tlae. Yes. Did you have occasion while you war working at Manville to travel around to aay other Manville plant other than the textile aanufacturlnp facility at Manville, Mew Jersey? I only picked up equipment at the Waukegan factory when -- This is 1033. Z wan asked to neve equipaent froa both Manville and Waukegan to the asbestos factory at Asbestos, Quebec, factory at Asbestos, Quebec wee a plant with a nuaber of depertaunts asking slailar products to those at Manville. They also had soae aining facilities that Manville owned in Asbestos? That was the aajor. What was going on there wee there cMidtoum Reporting <Sezaice SOI r7im*i cSqttmu 'Bmifjimy D 03682 jft e 1 2 3 4 0 6 7 8 9 10 A 11 Q 12 13 14 A 16 Q 16 A 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 inlng, but they had set up a production plant there, too, for Canadian product and X was sent up there when they wanted to set up a textile plant, and so X went up there with equipment froa Manvllle and Waukegan, but I saw very little of Waukegan's production.' ' X was just taking eoae aachlnery away. Did you help In settirigupiftj5?i^ft^i^`1 S ^ \ l ?asbestos textile Mnufacturlhg'^c^ft^y'^Ault wife tiel&lrset up in Asbestos,' Qtietiec7 -- ;-r vj Tss. And you were aware at^tliiatitles it was laportant how to lay it out and also to lay it out so that you could control the dust that would be generatsd? Yes. Ns -- the curds already had hooding on then. The carding nachines? Yes, the carding nachines had hooding, so Z had than lay out a dust recovery dspurtnent with fans exhausting the hoods of the cards and blowing into a recovery syete ee that you weren't blowing the dust over the countryside. And in that fashion, you were able to rsnows such of the asbestos dust froa the work environaeat and then capture It so it would not, like you say, be blown' cMidtown aRepotting cService 301 cSqvmxt 'BatU inj 0 03683 26 1 outsldr>t)M plant to tha neighborhood? 2A Yea, it was filtered. 3Q Row advanoed was the- thinking at Manville concerning 4 the need to control- aebeetoe duet in the-1930'e? 5A They had made good advances.- The o U ytes wae fane 6 on top of the building, not down where the duet are 7 generated 'The deet wae>4a-rthe O M a v Then when ! got S there, they hadjuetlnstalled'46 eete-iediHaaadn wAtk=, 9 10 11 Q duet recovery eye tea blowing taterOnliMer hoeee on iI the roof. I ii And the duet recovery eyetaa on the carde wae cloee to 12 the eource where the duet wae being generated? j 13 A Yea, cowpletely covering the hooding and the aachine; 14 aleo drawing out frow underneath the card, too. 15 Q Now, while you were at Manville, did you have occaeion ! 16 to eee any of their aebeetoe product aanufaotaring I 17 facilitloe other than textilea, like the pipe covering? ; 16 A ; The.. 19 Q * And they aleo had a pipe covering facility right at i 20 Manville? | i 21 A Toe. I I 22 Q And were they aleo using engineering devices for duet 23 control in the other operations, other than textile cMidtoujn Reporting cSetvice SOI 'Dimtt D 03^84 26 1 2A 3 4 6 6Q 7 8 9A 10 Q 11 A 12 13 Q 14 A 15 16 17 Q 18 19 A 20 21 22 Q 23 A Manufacturing? Thara was soaa hooding where dry aabeatoa was handled to faad Into sixers. There Mae hoods ovar that area. Mostly, though, tha recovery aysteas were connected with tha cards and tha looas. Did you have occasion during your tins at Manville ever to see tha Manufacturing prasaeaest.ikt another Manufacturer*.plant? _ ,, ... Yea. , Can you tall as whose plants you had occasion to visit? Keasbey A Mattiaon. That waa Z think at north -- or it was in Pennsylvania, yea. Has that Aabler, Pennsylvania? Yes. And it becaae -- They were purchased by Aserican Asbestos, so Keasbey A Mattiaon disappeared and Aserican Asbestos took it over. Do you know whether Iflcolet also purchased sons of Keasbey A Mattiaon? I never went to any Ificolet plant in Pennsylvania. I went by the Nicolet sines in Canada, but I didn't visit it. You did not go into tha Nicolet sines? No. cMidtoum cRepottiny cSetmce SOI 'Jim* 'BttiUimf 0 3<SS5 27 1q When you wont to the Keaebey 6 Mattleon textile plant, 2 how up to date aa coapared to Manvllle -- 3A The date? 4Q No, how up to date, how advanced were they ae coapared 6 to Manvllle in their efforts to control aebeetoe duet? 6A Keaebey A Mattleon were not ae advanced ae 7 Johna-Manvl1le. 8Q What wae the purpoee of your going to Keaebey ..Au 9 Mattleon? 10 A 11 12 Q They wanted ae to take a job thspe.ee supervisor. I didn't go. Did you have occasion to go to any other asbestos 13 coapaniee other than Keaebey A Mattleon while you were 14 at Manvllle? 16 A There's one other I vieited, aay have been a Raybeetoe 16 division. Z think it's a Raybestos factory but it was 17 owned -- it wae a different naae. It was in about 18 central Pennsylvania. 19 Q ** It wae aa aebeetoe textile facility? 20 A Tee. 21 Q Row advanced, froa what you could observe, wae the 22 23 A Raybeetoe-Manhattan facility? I think they were voaowhet viailar to Johns-Manvllle. Midtown Reporting cSeroice SO! 'Jim tt eSyymU 'B u itJ if 0 03686 28 By siailar, you aean that they had aade soae of the ease advances to control duat? Hooding and ao forth yea. Did you ever have contact while you were at Manvllle with anyone froa Raybeetoe concerning aebeetoe or engineering duet control aeaeures? Ho. It wee aore observatlna~-Afcheoalt. That's all. j Not dust control or probleae. j Why did you go to the- Raybestee^Manhattan facility? | Has that in the 1990's? . . . It was In the 90's. I'a hazy on that. I was sent there by Johne-Manvllle for soae purpose. It aay have | been for picking up cylinders or equipaent. They aay I have had eoaething for sals and so other than that, I can't give you an answer. Other than Keasbey ft MattIson and Raybestos, do you \ recall seeing any other asbestos aanufacturer's f operation? * I've seen several after being here, notat Manvllle. j Still at Johne-Manvllle, sueher question, did you ever ! ! have a chance to see the peekst nansfeutaring operation j at the Naseille facility v. MiJtoum Reporting cSetaice SOI `B u ild iuf i ! SI ^ p 03687 29 1q 2 3A 4 5 e 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 16 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Can you tall us what you obssrvad concerning the gasket aanufacturing operation at Manville? Cloth froa asbestos textile was shipped to then. There were aore than one operation. One was dipping, passing the cloth through a gasoline rubber shaaoy and then passing It up through a drying towel to reaove the gasoline fuaes, so fully iapregnatsd-asbestos-cloth was aade as one of the-peoducts that's particularly used in frictioning where two pieoss of d o t h are pressed together in asking a gasket. Then the other aethod was frictioning and sklaaing by colander, and a large percentage of the cloth was used that way Baking slabs. These slabs were used in cutting packing rings for gaskets. They were a punch press type of opsratlon. More cloth was used in either iapregnating or in frictioning than used as dry cloth. Dry cloth was used in their clothing aanufacturing for safety clothing. They had a plant at Johns-Manville for asking gloves and coats and pants for firsfightlng, working in steel Bills, where you wore exposed to high teaperaturss, that they aade thsa. (wheroupon brief recess was taken.) <zMidtoum cRepotting Sezaice SOI c5yt, -v. . -sfi o 03688 30 1 BY MR. GLASS: (Continued) 2Q Do you recall the naaee of any of the people you aet at 3 the Raybeetoe facility? 4A No. I night reaeaber it if the naaee were recited to 3 ae, but no, Z waan't particularly faailiar with those 6 folks. 7Q 8A Do you reaeaber any naaee froa Keasbey 8 Mattieon? ............ r That wae 30 yeare ago. I'a poor on reaeaber ing naaee. 9Q 10 I*a going to shift over now', Mr.'Houghton, to Oarlock, and I want to aek you firet how did you coae to be 11 12 A eaployed by Oarlock? In 1938, the superintendent of the textile plant was 13 Harry Elder and he died. I*a not sure why he died but j 14 he died in *30, and they were in need of soaeone to I 15 operate the departaent. They had at least a couple of 16 years of doing the beet they could with what they had 17 or Owen Burns wae one of the workers and he was in 4 18 charge when I caae here, but Mr. Hubbard, Cecil Hubbard 19 wee factory aanager. He was later proaoted to vice 20 president. Oeorge Abbott wae president of the conpany, 21 and I caae up here in March of that year and they told 22 ae to -- I caae in February and they told ae to cone up 23 in March, so I've been in here; aade a good iapression cMiJtoum cRepoztinq Service SOI 7iimi cSfw 'BaitJimj 0 03689 31 1 2Q 3A 4 3Q 6 7A 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 16 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 on. That was February, 1930 or 1939? It wee *39 when I wee celled In February to exaaine the place and I caae to work in March the 13th. How did you know about Oarlock or how did Oarlock know about you? fiVrlr gird -- ltlmWihJr frn"rrin Oarlock and JOtws-Manvilie." There line ill riitgjjifieiiuaa There wae sons people that went froa here to work at I Johns-Manvi11* and S O M folk fro Johna-Manvill hd cose here, so the cospanies knew s a e M r T h i s was in '39, tall end of the depression, and when I told ay superintendent, Mr. Cannon, that I had accepted a j position here as superintendent, Phil Cannon said to ae t it there was anyplace other than Oarlock, I*d advise you not to 9 0 . This was a backside way of a cosplisent j of Oarlock, so he didn't stand in ay way, but I had I t already told hla I had accepted because I had had a couple of other opportunities to leave and they told ne they were glad I stayed at Johns-Manville, so I didn't like -- Usually, when soaethlng like that happens, you got a little Increase in pay, so I didn't like to keep edging syself up by the saying I got another chance, ___ 1 cMiJtoum cRepoxtinq Sctaice SOI 'Jimtt cffwu lultjim j 0 03490 32 1 2 3Q 4 8 6 7A 8 9 10 11 12 13 Q 14 15 18 17 A 18 19 20 21 Q 22 A 23 Q but anyway, ha aaid If thara waa anyplace baaldaa Oarlock that I'd advlaa you not to go. j You aantionad that aoaa of the people froa Manvllle had coaa to Garlock and aoaa froa Oarlock to Manvllle. Can you help aa with any naana o.people who traneferred froa one to the other? I know that there wee a Bavia whoae brother worke here, had gone froa her* ta iTnhn i>lane)Llla i/i8*o*orfea4- In. the packing departaant, thaw-thea*- wa* aaatthar. achenif\ that aoved down there. Mia n a a e - w a ^ r ,0br- w ^ e . He waa a very good aechanlc. When I'a not thinking. I'll I reaeaber it for you. | II If you reaeaber it, you juet advlaa ue of the naae but ! we'll keep going in the aeantlae. Had you ever vieited j I any facility owned by Oarlock while you were at j Manvllle? i No, I didn't know of Garlock until I heard that there j waa an opportunity here. I aay have heard the word but Ji I j I didn't really know auch about it, but I never eaw ji Oarlock until I caae here to vlelt. T o o e ta r t e d with O a r lo c k is N a ro h 1 M 9 7 j Too. | And that waa in Palayra, New York, where your hone ie? j cMidtown cRcpoxtinq cSezaice SOI `Jim tt tS q u tu `BaiU iaf 7/ct# 33 1A 2q 3 4A 6 e 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 18 16 17 16 19 20 21 22 23 That' right. What type of facility did Garlock have in existence in 19397 What did they produce in Palmyra? Well, they have about a dozen departments. They make gaskets, folded gaskets, sake gasket rings, had panholed gaskets for boilers and then they made varieties of packings, rings mad compressed asbestos sheet gaskets. They sell sheeting, bat they also punch out millions of disk rings for valve stems or they sake felt packings for ball bearings. They make large variety of molded parts in high temperature molding for vulcanizing rubber. They make rubber sheets for sale. They furnish cloth to others to make safety clothing. They now make Teflon products. cMiJtoum cRepoxtiny Sexoict SOI O im t cSfurnu `BultJimj i 0 03692 34 1 2Q 3 4A 6 6 7Q 8 9 10 11 A 12 13 14 15 16 Q 17 18 19 MR. 20 21 22 A 23 froa which gaokuts m m hi* cut tu u ypuciflcHljje? Yea, aoat of thaa in single ahaat froa a 64 on up to maybe aa far aa an 8 , and then they laminate If they want to go thicker than 8 . And the folded gasket and the coaprassad ashestoe sheets and the packings did ~th6 e*< contain, or ddvyou know the percentage of asbestos by weightr ia those products, the general range? the 75 percent, and then 50 or 60 percent rubber on top of ttart-r so wiTre oown nb*T to maybe 30 percent asbestos lir~sbms uFOiijr^iiStrlted producte. And the onee that did not have the rubber, then, would mors or lees be like the commercial grade of asbestos cloth, roughly about 76 percent asbestos by weight? lAHlIOVt I object. I don't think that he said there were any that didn't have the rubber that were used for gaskets. Hell, others dipped in maybe Teflon. Again, they're eomtsd. A wall pareontag sight be used In a dry c M idtown cRepoxting cSetoice 50/ 'BvifJimj 0 03693 36 1 cloth, but mostly they're coated or lapregnatsd, . 2Q Aa I correct that Garlock Packing Coapany had bMii in 3 busineae for a good while biford you caas'htfre in 19397 4A Tee, I guess GarlOck was"probably about 1680 0> 3 soaewherf around there. 6Q 1887 sound about right? 7A That's soaewhere around when it started. I think it 8 started with rubberized fabric using soaebody's rubber 9 boots for strings for asking packings power plant. The 10 fella was using anything he could get. Finally he used 11 this and it worked, so he aoved froa the power plant 12 over to asking rubber slabs like rubber boots, and froa 13 thers he progressed into using other aaterials. 14 Q When you case to Palayra, Mr. Houghton, can you tell me 15 overall about how aany people were eaployed? 16 A 17 Oh, I don't know, maybe less than 200. . 200 Maybe around 18 Q _ Approximately how aany of those 200 would have been 19 v involved in manufacturing iteas that contained 20 asbestos? 21 A That's kind of a broad figure you're asking. I could 22 say aaybe 36 to 38 asking the asbestos parts, then the 23 other parts like high-pressure manufacturing and the (zMidtown cRepoxting cSexoice 50! 'Jimti cSqutU lnifJiaj c. . rv--i 'i*'i D 03694 36 1 2 3 4 0Q 6 7A 8Q 9 10 A 11 12 13 Q 14 A 15 16 q 17 18 A 19 20 21 Q 22 A 23 ill and colander they all handled the products, maybe another hundred there. You're now reaching out into a range of products eo to give you an exact figure, I couldn't do it. The type of aebeetoe that was used was primarily the chrysotlle or the white asbestos? Mostly, Y3Sb__, / And you also had soae of the blue a the crocidolite? A certain percentage of the crocidolite was used. Ne didn't do any weaving or spinning of crocidolite. That was purchased aaybe fro* Gernany. Or Rhodesia? The Rhodesian would be the source but the spinning was done aaybe in Geraany. The crocidolite, was tan gaqJtats-or was it strietlfFQ^TT^Vaskets? aeide than the ehrysotfS^ Less corrosive when it coaes in contact with -- Yes, it would resist corrosion or resist decomposition better than the croeldolite. cMidtotvn Reporting cSctoice SOI lim n eSfw ii tBulUiaf -v... H /..( ! l f t 0 03695 37 1Q 2A 3 4 5Q 6 7 6 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 IS 19 20 21 Q 22 23 A Than the chrysotile? Chrysoite. That would be daaaged. The blue, which is harsher and not as easy to handle, does resist chesical action better than the -- Pros the engineering. did you obs#hn t)nt d i s l e a f c i H M R l M t t n e w t r o l dust when you first cans ah Bid*!a.1A39? And then yea can recapture what yoe'ee get in the fllterhouse? The filter bags are shaken every day m that naterial cMidtoxan cRepotting Service SOI 'Jimti 'BuiUiaf D 03696 38 1 2Q 3 4 S 6A 7Q 8 9A 10 Q 11 A 12 13 14 Q 18 16 A 17 16 19 20 21 ja 22 Q 23 fall and la reaoaad'ohce atobek. And thb >0096' atf9**the Vfccutrtf vrfHTTDit Ion ayatea that you've deecribad m V baaft&irllY to raaove* thk aabaatoa duat that ana being ganaratadlh tha aanftfacturlng proceee? ThatTrltfhtV And you uaad tha s u e type of engineering both for the chryaotlla and for the crocfddllte? ''* Wa did not procaaa-'any crooidblita. Through carding and through tha looaa. That'a right. Ha didn't sake any fabrlca. Ha bought aoaa yarna for braiding, but thoaa ware dipped in oile or greaeee and than braided. What wee your specific job reeponeibillty aa superintendent whan you etarted with Oarlock in 19397 3 arar of the need to keep aabaatoa duat to a certain unuKotaa Gs\cf/sj\iiny SOt Utmti wra ^3m 0 03697 :| 3 I 'ji 4 iQ i 6 | li 6 7j A I 8i Q 9 ; li 10 ,1 11 ! 12 13 Q 14 15 ii 16 A 17 J 18 | 19 20 j 21 j Q |1 22 1 | A "i l i .1 that tine. War there any law that you were aware of iron the State of Hew York that related to the work site and dust? I don't recall any New Yor*k Sr-t-.a-X.t,e..law. ** *. *-4t%How would you compare -the knowledge conesm l n^the inportance of controlling. ashestos dust ..Oarlocte to what you had observed at ttanvil^e? I think we were better here than Menvllle. I ^ ^ S k T t h e dust. S rw fH e ie n tly . Did your responsibilities ae plant sanager, superintendent, include keeping an eye over how well the dust control systea was operating? I was probably the only one that wee closely related to these jobs. X would call the Maintenance department S'.. for cleaning up once a week or coning in to do any of St1', . *^those operations to keep place working right. It was T ay Job. Did601,1eok have any'respirators who were w r i c i ^ f ^ i g r i q H a U | ( H h F t o s ? Yes. 4 Those people'that DjiMown $tporti*f uoo :7-w. {LIU , o 03698 40 1 departaent had to wear the laproved aln raaplratora 2 when they were cleaning up at the end of the week when 3 they were reaoving duet froa the fllterhousee or froa 4 cleaning up around the aachinery. Me used respirators 6 for those aen that carried stock. Ne'd have those box 6 trucks and they would bring the aaterial that had been 7 blended. Rayon and asbestos was loaded into these 8 trucks and brought up the elevator and than brought to 9 feed into the cards so those asn were required to wear 10 respirators during handling of stock by hand. 11 Q How auch textiles were produced a s b f l N r t M t t t n were 12 produced at the Palayra plant of Oarlock? 13 A Oh I guess it was probably about 4 M 1ATTffo-pounds a 14 year. 18 Q And that was sold coaaercially? 16 A The highest percentage was used within the factory 17 either in the dipping aachlnes or in the high- pressure 18 ~~ aanufactoring where they coated it with rubber. 19 Q ' SO S O M of it -- 20 A Most** i* was i-- I nJI- 21 b u ^ the aost of I f w ' l S S Q t l g p e d . 22 Q <4 23 And was any of the textiles that you have described also used to sake further products like the Oarlock If&JL* fcfporiutf H0tJ% VI ' -- ^ . / / . 0 03699 ^Sd 1 1 ,1 2A gaekete? Yw.. That was after the coating proceee. There le 3 ! i 6 ;Q 'i 6 very little requirement for aabeetoe Juet ae a dry cloth. Once you had aade a coapreseed aabeetoe eheet out of which gaskete could be cut. you were able to print on 7 that coapreeeed aabeetoe eheet. aa t. correct? aA They would put a label on it, yee. , ....... 9Q And you could put Oarlock*e naae on it? 10 A It aight be a label, the brand, and a etyle nuaber 11 aight be on there, eo it could be identified ae a 12 Oarlock product. 13 Q And that would be right on the product iteelf? 14 A That would be printed right on the eheet. 15 Q And Oarlockaadegaskets invarioue light anddark 1 colore? 17 I MR. I I 18 J 19 i Q SHAMVORt You're talking about compressed- aabeetoe sheet gaekete? A Coapreseed-aebeatoe eheet gaekete, what colore did they 20 coae in? 21 i A 22 j; Q Color? Yee, sir. c 23 ! A Oh, aight be in a black, one a dark gray. They had WuL M/H ttf)Q tjtf t, 42 1 i o h in th* whit*. 2Q Would tht be a white or a light gray? 3A It would b* off color white. One* you start using j i 4 white rubber on white asbestos you come up with a 6 dirty gray and they night have a -- I think they ay 6 have used- sons blue and sons red. 7Q Now' th* style nuaber, does the number 7009 ring a boll S for you froa the gasket aatreriale? j I 9A I wae not aajorly connected with that so -- 7SO1*, I ! 10 heard those nuabere, but I didn^t handle the* enough to j 11 be a good answer for you. 12 Q Aa 1 correct that aany of the gaskets produced by j I 13 Oarlock but not all had th* nans of Oarlock on the 14 naterial itself? j 16 MR. SHANNON: Again coapreased-asbestos sheet I 16 17 A 18 gasksts. j 1 well, aany of the products aight have a nuaber and then j i be boxed in a Oarlock-labeled box. I don't think the 19 ~ word "Oarlock" would show on everything that they aade. 20 Q I understand, but the naae was put on son* of the 21 coapressed-asbestos sheet gasket naterial? 22 A Oh, I guess the word "Oarlock" showed on eon* of the 23 sheet, yes. cMidtoum Reporting cSeroice SOI `Jim ti cSfm ttt CBuifJif D 03701 43 1Q 2 3 4 5 6A 7 8 9 10 11 Q 12 13 14 A 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ^ ****'t,r'aoald^ it-bo fair to atata that GdMMatekai aaplayaaa that wara expoaad to duat aabaotoa duet, wara awara that aabaatoa could poaaibly ba. harmful to the if they breathed It without nacaaaary protaction? Moat people do t w t llao la atata a# awgfeheee of danger hangin,gr!*p!weythedr b_a--adruiH~ .tnfniwauatrinot..* H--a had probably aora-ilongntara workaradiidbaatlla theii--trrmost * -r -vruaif of the othar planta. Thara waa no aanaa of fear-larthe plant. Waa thara awaranaee-that- it- waa-lapaataat to kaap the vantllatlba and exhauat arpilpnaat working and to uaa raapiratora whan you wara around, aabaatoa duet? Whan you wara working-in- a iTilIVI MraUi y , Qfnaral 1( wa had a pratty_elaaa l i p r ti aiYrgj raijjTii^-rT liar not willn hy aiiarybadli TT^HSTiiWTE iihara you wara aatavial llka^ feeding a eaod- or laying a cMidtoiun Repotting eSetoice SOI Jim i eSfustt *3i t j i f D 03702 44 1A of the aopnjrvlslon. 2Q And Mf^aid the supervision do to asks sure that the 3 sen wtre w w a ef ths iaportance^df kpeping the 4 asbestos coatsvL 5A I don't think that gaonaadl%.pnsp&e scab spare of 6 details like that r D a y depend -Mb^hoAriPrawerxision to 7 keep things up te* date < 8 Now, you neks 9 that? tl 10 that was the fore-- a/n -Job*-, 11 be checking by thaudapartaent to 12 see that it was being-done, bat that 13 were aiao responsible. 14 Q How aeny buildings were there at Palayra? 15 A Oh, the nuabers were soaething like up to 25. Nuabers 16 of buildings is kind of a hard thing to do because 17 here's a shed and it's given a nuaber, so roughly, 18 v- there were around 25 different types of aanufacturing 19 ? going on. 20 Q Mho was Nr.Bristol? 21 A Bristol? 22 Q Yes, sir. 23 A He wae in charge of the aachlne shop, and I guess he eMidtoum (Reporting cSetoice SOI 'Jimti eSqusu I v iiJ if o 03703 45 1 had yard gang for aaintenance of tha whola factory 2 outaida aa all aa tha tinaalth and tha alectrlcal 3 departwant were all under Brlatol. 4Q In aoaa of tha buildlnge, for exaaple, Building 15, are 5 you abla to identify what Building IS waa or what 6 eervice waa performed there, do you recall, in the 1942 7 tiaa fraaa? 8A 15? I waa in Building 7. 15 I don't..think ia clear 9 enough in ay aind juat which it waa*- 10 Q 11 12 13 In Building 6 or Building 16, in June of 1942, I have a I paper which I will ahare with you, but I want to aak a I I clarification firat. A coaaant waa aada of the need to i! reaove fuaaa and iapurltlee on tha eecond floor that 14 were created, generated or ralaaaad by filling bina j 15 with powdered aatariala. Mould tha powdered aateriala 16 being referred to bo aebeetoe? j 17 MR. SBAMNOKt Why don't you let hia eee the | 16 docuaent? It aight help. Are you talking 19 about Building 6 or IS? You aald both at the 20 beginning of the queetion. 21 MR. GLASSER: There'a a reference, Jla, and I think 22 I'll need hia help to clarify it, but I have 23 extra copleo of the eaae doeuaeat. c M iJ to io n c R e p o ttin q S e v ric c 50t (Summit 'BaifJtmy D 03704 i i 46 1Q 2 3 4 6 6A 7Q 8 9 10 A 11 12 13 14 Q 15 A 16 Q 17 A 18 Q 19 20 21 22 23 This is the docuaent, Mr. Houghton, I'a showing to you. At the saae tins I've got another copy here for your counsel. Let as turn to the first page. I'a t going to aove back just for a second and It is aarked June 5, 1942. Do you see that, 6-5-427 Yes. And it has "Mr. Bristol" then the word "important" and it has soae initials. Do you know whose initials those are? I can see a C there, but that nuaber 8 doesn't tell ae auch. Let's see, I don't know whether that night be l C. R. Hubbard. C. R. Hubbard was the vice president in j charge of the factory, the Bolding departaent. If you will turn to the next page -- It likes like Frisboe Walborth. That looks like who? This looks like Walborth. ! r This aight be a signature froa the industrial | coaaissioner. What 1 was questioning, if you look at the paragraph nuabered 1 , it talks about the need to j "Provide an exhaust systea to reaove tuaee or other \ ; lapurlties froa your factory on second floor, created, j generated or released by filling bins with powdered ' c M id to u m c R e p o ttin g (S e rvice SOI Uimtt cSqumrt HiiitJinf 0 03705 47 1 materials." Do you so where I road that7 2A Yea. 3Q Is the powdered aaterlal that they're referring to 4 there asbestos? 5A It sounds like it say be where they were making up 6 compounds, second floor. 7 MR. GLASSKR: Jim, to answer your question,..it says 8 Building 8 and 16. 9A Manufacturing didn't do much blending on the second 10 11 Q 12 floor. That was blending in the basement. j Now, with regard to that on the basement, look with me I at paragraph marked number 2. Here the direction is to j 13 "Construct and locate hood so that dust from grinding i I 14 gaskets will fall or be drawn into the hood," and then 15 it has a parenthesis, "(gaskst grinding machine - 16 basement - building 8 and 16.)" 17 A They had a mill in the basement for re-- well, they 18 would chop up gasket trimmings to be reprocessed in the 19 BixioB, gasket grinding. There might be some type of a 20 gasket tolerance that required a certain thickness, and 21 then they would put it through a grinder which would 22 have a surface grinding operation. That could make a 23 rubber duet and be a nuisance and it could be a fire cMiJtoum cRcpottinq cScxuice 301 'Junti cSytMU 0 03706 | 48 1 hazard if you didn't keep your machinery clean. 2Q Do you have any recollection of a document euch as 3 this being delivered to the Oarlock Packing Company 4 by the Department of Labor? 8A No. I being not connected with maintenance, I would 6 not see any report like this. 7Q Can you identify the writing that appears on the left- 8 hand margin of page 2 of this exhibit? 9A No. 10 Q 11 12 If anydirection ororder weregiven to the plant to collect certain fumes or grindings that were escaping into the work environment, would those have generally 13 been brought to your attention? 14 A No. 18 Q Are you awarethat in the 1942 timeframe,there were 16 documents such as this received by the Oarlock Packing 17 Company at its Palmyra plant? 18 A They wouldn't have come to me. I was not in ths health ' 19 -- department. The problems of textiles would cose to 20 me. In fact, only to me because it was -- if I needed 21 any help, I'd go to maybe Bristol for electrical or 22 other upkeep business, but for the maintenance of dust 23 control was mine, designing was mine. cMidtown Reporting cSetvice 501 <Sq**u D 03707 49 1Q Thank you, Mr. Houghton. I' going to give this to the 2 court reporter and aek her to identify that pleaee ae 3 Houghton Number 1 ao they can aee what you and I were 4 eharing and talking about. 6 (WHEREUPON HOUGHTON EXHIBIT 1 - Pour- 6 page document; first page reading "Mr. 7 Bristol* and "Important" - WAS MARKED FOR S IDENTIFICATION.) 9Q When problems worm brought to your attention that 10 needed correcting ae it related to the vacuum system or 11 the need to keep aebeetoe dust low? Nbmt sources of 12 information did you have to turn to in addition to your 13 own paet experience? 14 A We had a very good man, a John Kattsnack, who was a big 15 help in designing duet recovery systems like a cyclone, 15 and he was the one I would go to, and he was very 17 helpful. 18 C ^ p t i m i l a b l e today? 19 A h ^ l elso in the ground. 20 Q WUs there anyone at ui e i e i H W v ^ e y e r s S d w M e c k . who 21 22 23 (zMiJtoujn cRcpottinq cSetwce SOt cSquat* D 03708 50 1Q My question Is had you any tine, say, in the 1930's, 2 while you were at Manvllle or In the early part of your 3 career at Oarlock heard of Dr. Merewether over in 4 England and the studies that he had done on asbestos 6 textile plants over there? 6A Z think ay answer is no. 7Q 8 Z'a going to show you, and it's a thick docuaent consisting of 34 pages, but Z'a showing it to you just 9 to see whether or not that in any way refreshes your 10 recollection. This is only a photocopy of what the 11 docuaent was. 12 MR. SHANNON: Can we identified it for the record? 13 MR. GLASSER: For the record, Z'a showing hia the 14 "Report on the Effect of Asbestos Dust on the 18 Lungs and Dust Suppression in the Asbestos 16 industry." Zt is a two-part paper by E.R.A. 17 Merewether and W.C. Price. Zt is dated 1930. 18 A One shilling, three pence. No, Z did not know of hia, 19 - and the report that this covere did not coae to ae. 20 Q Z thank you, and Z will show you another report and ask 21 you whether you have seen or heard of this. 22 MR. GZiASSER: For the record, this is an United 29 States Treasury Departsent Public Bcalth < zM id tou jn ( R e p o rtin g S e r v ic e 50/ met cSqurnxt q 0370? 51 1 2 3 4 3 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 MR. SHANNON: 14 13 16 MR. GLASSER: 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Report which was done by the United States Public Health Service. It is the January to June, 1935 voluae, and specifically fros that is an article which carries the date January 4, 1935 entitled, "Effects of the Infiltration of Asbestos Dust on the Lungs of Asbestos Workers." It is signed by Dr. A.J. Lanza. Now, one thing that I would show Mr. Houghton and ask him to read is the introduction or the introductory paragraphs on this article to see if that has any aeaning to hia. You're asking hia whether he knew that in 1929 the Metropolitan Life Insurance Coapany was approached? I'm asking hia basically does he have any faailiarity with Dr. Lanza's 1935 study, and what I'a showing hia which aight tie in with what we've discussed on the record is whether or not the Metropolitan Life Insurance Coapany was the plant that studied Manville. The reference is nade that this report emanated out of Manville studies, and c M idtown cRcpotting cSezmcc SOf `Jimti cSquatt q 03710 j 52 1 2A 3 4 5 6Q 7 8 9 10 11 I believe also Raybeetos-Manhattan studies. j Nell, this fas not brought to ay attention fhile I fas ! | at Johns-Manville. It was not brought to ay attention j at Garlock. It aay be that aost -- some of these ! , ii inforaation were not -- That didn't excite people yet. j I Let ae ask tfas it known while you were at Manville in I j the 1927-1939 tlae fraae that if you and I rant out for j the first tiae today and breathed asbestos, that it would not hurt us or show up on our x-ray toaorrow or j next aonth or even next year but that it took tiae for i ! the injury which aay result froa asbestos to show up? 12 MR. SHANNON: 13 14 15 Halt, Mr. Houghton. I object to that question. I don't quite understand it, and are you asking whether he knew in the 1930's that there tfas a lag, that your question? 16 MR. GLASSKR: I'll be happy to re -- ! 17 Q Do you understand ay question? 18 A 19 I t t M r f d , and I don't think that then consciousness I of rShe industry had becoae too auch a*fare of the j 20 seriousness of it, and they feren't preaching to us who 21 were forking in the factory you aust get going on 22 this. It fasn't the saae attareness that you have now | 29 as not then. - i D 03711 czMidtoiun cReportinq Service 50/ `Jim tt cSquate 53 1Q 2 3 4 0A 6 7 8 9 10 Q 11 A 12 Q 13 A 14 Q 15 16 A 17 Q 18 A 19 20 Q 21 22 23 A I understand, but to clarify ay question, were you aware that the hazard of breathing asbestos fibers in the 1930's wae that over a period of tlae, it could cause problems? No. He knew that soae folks were sent to be checked by x-ray, but it was not the saae plantwide type of study t , . that was undertaken at Garlock. He were sent every two years to Clifton Springs, all of us, for an x-ray check. Why? For an x-raycheck. Has there -- There was no discussion to the individual why. Did you understand why they were taking periodic chest x-rays? I did, yes. What was your understanding, Mr. Houghton? Hell, the reports caae back only to those that aight be cautioned you'd better aove to another department. And the reports would reflect that there were soae change on your x-ray that related to your breathing asbestos dust? Not described as such, but we sight assume that. cMidtoum cRcpoztinq cSetuice 50t Jimes cSquatt e23uifJi/ty D 03712 54 * Let as show you still a third report that 1 will share with your attorney. GLAS5ER: This,is a report, for the record, from Jthe U.S. Treasury Department Public Health Service, Public Healthy Bulletin p* 241, dated August 1938.,../pnd_ this, wap, ji "Study of Asbestosis. in the 4f^p|itps Textile Industry," I and the prisynryn# u ^ w M4^Wal^e*ar C. Dreesen. Now, this bulletin did not come to my hand. It was dated -- 1938. --'38. Were you aware that the U.S. Public Health Service had evaluated and reviewed four textile plants? We were aware that the insurance coapaniee would sake periodic checks. I And the standard that you and I have described that linited the quantity of asbestos duet, was that developed, according to your understanding, by the insurance coapany investigations? Well, there was a U.S. Bureau of -- I don't know whether it's the Bureau of Safety or eeaething that cMidtoum (Reporting (Service 50t D 03713 i 55 1 2 3 4 3 6 7 8 9Q 10 11 12 13 A 14 Q 15 A 16 Q 17 18 19 A 20 Q 21 A 22 Q 23 issued their requirements. I'm not sure of the wording of the department, but there was a Safety Department in the O.S. Government that issued theme health notices, and that's the one that -- well, Public Health Service, ! right in front of me. I understand. Let me try to find one thing in this report. I'm reading on page 117, and I juet wanted to refer in line 3 to the wording where it eaye "Less than 5 million pmrtielee per cubic foot." Do you see that? Yes. Was that standard 5 million particles per cubic foot? That was the top limit. And that wee the top limit, and if Z understand, beyond that Unit, there was a recognised hazard to people breathing, asbestos? That M W N h e r e you were supposed to use respirators. And that -- And it was our problem, to keep it below that. And am I correct that it did not sake any difference where the person worked but if the 'air that he was cMiJtaum cRepoxtiny cSexuice 50/ c5fwatf cV,.- H L -rf l i t / S 0 03714 56 1 breathing had asbestos in it and the measurement was 2 greater than 5 million particles of total dust per 3 cubic foot, there was need for protection, regardless 4 of what his job was? 5A That's true. 6 (Whereupon a brief recess was taken.) 7 8 BY MR. GLASSER: (Continued) 9Q You mentioned earlier, Mr. Houghton, the Asbestos 10 11 12 A 13 Textile Institute. What was the Asbestos Textile Institute? It was a membership of all asbestos manufacturing companies as well as the different mining companies in 14 Canada. I guess you have one mining company in 15 Vermont, but it was mads up of the manufacturing 16 companies as well as the mines. 17 Q And was it an organization formed to render service to 18 buyers and uers and makers of asbestos textiles? 19 A Not so much for the uere as the producers. I think it 20 21 22 23 Q was mainly for the manufactures to discuss problems. Each might come up or bring to the organizations some of their thoughts. And it was also an organization where you could share cM idtou m czReporting S ervice 50/ 5ywjf/ D 03715 ) 1 2 3A 4Q 5 6A 7Q 8 9A 10 11 12 13 14 Q 15 16 17 18 19 s V K 20 A Q Q0v/ ^22 A L '- O ' *7 | 11 1 advanceaents, engineering advancements on natters like ! dust control? Yes, you could share. j Now, you aentioned Osorge L. Abbott as being a i 1 president of the Oarlock Packing Coapany. ; Rs m m president. Has he also the representstivanto the Asbestos Textile i Institute in. the 1946 tine fraas for Oarlock? He any have been brought in on sons of their organization's side of it, but aostly it -would be aaybe 1 i a purchasing agent, or soae other one of the group would be sent to those nestings and I would bs usually the one. Look with ae, please, at the exhibit that I have passed to you and, for the record, it is soae ainutes of the Asbestos Teetlle Institute taken at the general nesting held on June 19, 1946 at the Harwich Hotel in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Rave you seen ainutes froa Asbestos Textile Institute? Sons. Those that I attended I would see then. Is this in the general fora of the ainutes that you attended? 1 don't roaeaber Harris McKinney. This is back right <z M idtown Repotting cSetuice 501 cSqujic ^ 03716 58 2 3Q 4A 5Q 6A 7Q 8A 9 10 Q 11 A 12 Q 13 A 14 15 Q 16 A 17 Q 18 19 20 21 22 23 in the beginning stages, and so I recognize soee of these naaes like George Fabel. And he was with Southern Asbestos Coapany? Yes. And do you recognize any of the other naaes? Well, I think I reaeaber Dillon of Johns-Manville. What about Mr. Weaver of Raybestos Manhattan? I aay have reaeabered hia. Wakea, I reaeaber, of Johns-Manville. That's Mr. Wakea, W-a-k-e-a, Frank J. Wakea? Yes. What about Mr. Widaayer of Keasbey 8 MattIson? I don't reaeaber hia. I never really got closely attached to -- What about Mr. J. A. Bettes of Raybestos-Manhattan? No, I don't reaeaber hia. If you will, turn with as to page 4of those alnutes that Mr. George L. Abbott attended for Oarlock. There's reference to a definition of the Institute, and do these words, in your opinion, reflect the purposes of the Asbestos Textile Institute? "The Asbestos Textile Institute is a voluntary, non-profit organization foraed to render service to buyers and aMi<hoiun cRcpoxtiny cSetoice 50/ Urret cSquar* 0 03717 59 \y 2A users of asbestos textile*." They're eeying users, then they plan to send out bulletin* to custoaer*. I was not in on that. 0 Q I understand. 5 MR. GLASSER: I*a going to ask the court reporter if 6 she'd be kind enough to just aark this as 7 Houghton Exhibit Number 2. 8 (WHEREUPON HOUGHTON EXHIBIT 2 - Asbes . 9 tos Textile Institute ainutes of June 19, 10 11 12 Q 1946 meeting - WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Are you aware as to whether or not some time during 13 1946 or maybe prior to 1946 a report from the Garlock 14 Packing Company relative to their dust control system 15 was prepared? 16 MR. SHANNON: What are you referring to there? 17 MR. GLASSER: Let me give you a copy. For the 18 record, I aa looking at the reference to 19 appearance, and I have a copy for Mr. 20 Houghton, also, in the minutes of the dust 21 control coaaittee nesting held on Wednesday, 22 March 13, 1946 at the Engineers Club in 23 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania of the Asbestos czM iJtoivn d R ep o ziin g Service 50/ cSquaxt D 037^ 60 1 2Q Textile Institute. i On page 2 under paragraph nuabered Number 5, there is a 3 statement that "The problem of reduction of dust at the 4 carding engines was then discussed. Mr. McKinney 5 presented a report from the Oarlock Packing Company 6 relative to their dust control system." Did you see t 7 where I read that? i 8A That's number 5? 9Q Yes, sir. 10 MR. SHANNON: Your question is does Mr. Houghton 11 remember that report? 12 Q Do you remember a report prepared? 13 A No. There's a fair chance that I may have been asked 14 to prepare the report, but *46, I was there and nobody 15 else was working in a supervisory state in the textile 16 department but me, so 1 don't remember any report. 17 Q If a report had been prepared as this copy of the 18 minutes indicates, do you know whether a copy of the 19 report would still be available at Carlock? 20 A Hell, they had copious storage of reports, but I don't 21 know anyone now over #there that is responsible for such 22 a thing, but, you know, it night be the thing to do 23 would be to ask -- I don't know who over there, but <zMiJtoiun cRepoztinq cSezuice 501 'Jimti cSfuatt 'B'difJinf D 03719 61 j 1 what's his naas? ! 2Q Is this the current Management at Oarlock? j 3A 4 6 6 7 8 The current management and the manager -- president was not closely connected with It at that tine. We've had j several changes In the top. Dick Watson would probably i be able to dig in to whoever might be having knowledge j of times. The one In charge of files is dead. She was I a pretty good person to go to, but I think this would 9 have to be brought up to Dick. He would be a much i 10 better one to go after than me. 11 HR. GLASSER: Let me make a request to the attorneys 12 that are here. I would request that you ask 13 Mr. Watson whether or not he knows of and can 14 produce a copy of the report from Garlock 15 Packing Company relative to their dust 16 control system that was presented to Mr. 17 McKinney, who is Harris D. McKinney, the 18 Inetitute Manager of the Asbestos Textile 19 Institute and discussed in these minutes of 20 March 14, 1946, and I have no reluctance, as 21 stated on the record, I have very high regard 22 for Jin Shannon, and if that inquiry can be j I 23 made, if you think it's more approprite that cAlidtoujn czRepozting cSetaice 5 Of *Jinet cSyuait 0 03720 62 1 we file it with a more formal notice to 2 produce, I will do so, but I'm trying to 3 accomplish that more informally right now, 4 and if that's permissible to make that 5 6 MR. SHANNON: request -- He'll note your request and make your 7 request to Mr. Watson. 8A This paragraph 2 refers to a Bausch ft Lomb dust 9 counter, and we purchased a Bausch ft Lomb dust 10 counter. That was in effect when you saw that 5 11 million particles reference. Well, that's when we were 12 using it, and we used it here. It was a device in 13 which there was a combination of a magnified device and 14 a cylinder with a plunger that would suck in a cardium 19 of air and Impinge that against a glass plate. We used 16 a piece of paper that we would moisten to give humidity 17 and we put that in the chamber, and when you pulled 18 that plunger, the air was slightly moistened and 19 particles would be lodged on that glass plate. Then 20 you simply pick the thing up and you -- the plate was a 21 disc and that sample would be a little band and you had 22 about 12 positions on that glasa plate, so you could 23 make samplings at different places. cMidtoujn cRcpoxtinq (Service SOt Otmei cSquaX4 0 03721 63 1Q Looking through a microscope? 2A Right, and then we would -- we had a numbering so we 3 had a record of where we had taken our samples and then 4 I would plug it into the -- There was a light on it and 3 you would count. It was a little grid. It was a two 6 bars and some vertical marks, and in that area was the 7 equivalent of a reading of a cubic foot. 8Q And you could determine, therefore, what the dust was 9 by making this counting and make a very good educated 10 11 12 A 13 guess as to what the dust concentration was in the area? As you were counting maybe 40 particles on that little plate, the 40 particles times a thousand would be forty 14 thousand. I'm talking a little bit out of the top of 15 my head, but -- 16 MR. SHANNON: Mr. Houghton, excuse me, but don't 17 talk out of the top of your head. Wait for 18 Mr. Glasser to ask you a question and answer 19 what he asks you. If he wants to get more 20 information about this mechanism, I know he 21 will ask. Don't discuss, Mr. Houghton, 22 please do not discuss things he doesn't ask 23 you about. cMidtomn aRcpoztinq (Service 50/ mtt cSquat* D 037^.2 64 1Q But I'm very interested and I take it from your 2 statements that you did some of the counting yourself. 3A (No verbal response.) 4Q You're nodding your head yes? 5A Yes. 6Q These countings were done at Oarlock in the 1946 time 7 frame or earlier? 8A The year we bought it I can't give you, but we had it. 9 MR. GLASSER: I'm going to ask please that this be 10 marked as Houghton Number 3, and specifically 11 they are the minutes of the dust control 12 committee meeting held March 13, 1946. 13 (WHEREUPON HOUGHTON EXHIBIT 3 - March 14 13, 1946 dust control meeting minutes - WAS 19 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.) 16 Q I'm going to go back to what is marked Houghton Exhibit 17 Number 2, and this is the minutes of June 19, 1946 18 where Mr. George Abbott, George L. Abbott, attended for 19 Garlock. On paragraph Number 2, it states that one of 20 the activities that had been done during the last 21 quarter included the "notification to members and 22 nonmembers on O.P.A removal of ceiling prices." That 23 was one thing they did. Another thing was the cM idtown cRepotting cSetuice SO I 'Jt 'r e i cSqvati 'S vifJtn f 03723 1 2 3 4A 5Q 6 7 "distribution of the Garlock Dust Control System j i report," and that's the report that I've asked you did i l you specifically recall. j ! I do not recall it. i I Do you know whether it was the practice of the ATI to j j keep not only members advised of what was going on but i also keeping nonmeaber companies informed of Institute j a activities? 9 HR. SHANNON: Mr. Olasser, please, if you're going i 10 to ask him a question, if he knows, ask him, 11 but I think the record should reflect you're 12 pointing out something on that document which 13 evidentally indicates what you've just 14 asked. IS MR. GLASSER: I'm happy to confirm what I was 16 showing him when I asked the question is 17 paragraph number 3. In fact, let me read it 18 to the record, and I'm reading from Houghton 19 Exhibit Number 2, the minutes of general 20 meeting of June 19, 1946. 21 Q r ^* Has it your understanding that this was a regular -.t-..;:! i...m:'y , "Tin* rt.v-s1lient brought up the matter 23 of keeping nonmeaber companies informed on Institute <zM idtoivn cR cpoztin g cSetoice SOI cSquatt 'BuifJinq 0 03724 activities." Do you know whether the Asbestos Textile Instltue not only tried to serve its members concerning asbestos matters but also nonmembers? I don1t know that. ! Going back, Mr. Houghton, to tha 1940 time frame, i ! again, the aid^40'sv were you- familiar 9th the Industrial ^Health Poundutiowthe IHF? No, I wae not kept up to date on that, no. Do you recall whether or not a study was made of the Garlock Packing Company's plant by a Mr. W.C.L. Heaeon who was a chief engineer for the Industrial Health Foundation in the 1947 time frame? Do you remember people coming or Mr. Remeon coming to the plant to study and evaluate what you do with regard to dust control? I can't give you an answer. No, I'd say no. I will share some papers with you that may or say not help let me ask this question first. Ars you aware that the Asbestos Textlls Institute at its meeting as reflected by the minutes of the subcoaeittee meeting on dust control committee held June 19, 1949 at the \ Engineers' Club in Philadelphia, was concerned and I'm reading in paragraph 1 A of those minutes, of the cM idtourn (Reporting (Service sot *31*1*1 <S<f 0 03725 67 "Importance of duet control problem to all aeeber 2 coapaniee and the need for iaaedlate cooperative 3 action." My question: Were you aware that the 4 Asbestos Textile Inetitute was discussing the need to 5 gather information* facts, on dust determination and 6 control procedures in ths various plants of its 7 A 9Q aeabers? I do not remember any report of that action. Were you aware of any services that were available by 10 the Mellon Inetitute in Pittsburgh? 11 A I'a not aware now. No, I can't say I was aware. 12 Q And I might have asked this, but were you aware that 13 the Industrial Health Foundation operated out of 14 Pittsburgh and offered industrial hygiene, engineering 15 and aedical advice to industry where it was sought? 16 A No. 17 MR. GLASSER: For the record, I will ask that this 18 be narked as Houghton Nuaber 4. 19 (WHEREUPON HOUGHTON EXHIBIT 4 - June 20 13, 1946 Dust Control Coaaittee ainutes - WAS 21 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.) 22 MR. GLASSER: Off the record. 23 (Whereupon a discussion was held off the record.) cMidtotvn (Reporting (Service 50/ Otmt* cSquou `SuifJny D 03726 I'* going to show you a thick docuaent, and though it's t 1 1 one docuaent, the copy that I give you is divided by 8oae loose pages and then there's a paper-clipped i lI portion and then soae aore loose pages. I'a going to ask the court reporter to nark this entire exhibit as II Houghton Nuaber 5, and for the^ record, I will read it with Mr. Houghton. This is a report of the Industrial Hygiene Foundation of Ase^cs*. Incorporated out of Pittsburgh. It is a "Report of the Preliainary Dust Investigation for the Aabaetos Textile Institute," dated June, 1947 by W.C.L. Heaeon, head engineer; specifically, it's dated June 137 I think June 13, 1947. I'd like you to take a aoaent or ae auch tiae as you need and look at that, wl I don't want to speed your taking the tiae. You taka your tiae, but also let ae pull out for you the paperclipped portion, and the papercllpped portion is dated July II, 1947 and it's a "Meaorandua on the Plant of the Garlock Packing Company Supplementing the General Report," and the general report la the docuaent that you have, and it identifies that as the "Preliainary Dust Investigation For Asbestos Textile Institute of June, 1947," and you night look specifically at this three-page report to cMiJtoum cRepottinq cSezuice SOf mtt cSfudf* 'Butfjtitf Q Q372? 69 r xi see whether it has any effect on your aeaory concerning 2 a study that waa done by Dr. Heaeon on the Garlock 3 Packing Coapany plant. j A "He rate thia aa average." 3 MR. SHANNON: 6 Don't read out loud. She'll write it i down. Just read it to yourself. J 7 MR. GLASSER: Off the record. 8 (Whereupon a discussion was held off the record.) j I 9 ! 10 MR. GLASSER: While we were off the record# Mr. 11 Houghton had just a aatter of several ainutes 12 to look at the docuaent# which is a rather 13 large docuaent. We decided we're going to go 14 to lunch. I have told Mr. Houghton in the 15 presence of hia counsel that when we return 16 froa lunch# I will ask you hia whether or not 17 the docuaent has any effect on hia aeaory, 18 whether or not he recalls this study being 19 Bade; specifically, whether he reaeabers or 20 recalls a study being aade of the Garlock 21 facility, which is included in this report, 22 but in any event, we'll resuae those 23 questions following the lunch hour. cMidtown Reporting cSezoice 5Of Otma cSfwar* 'Huilditty 0 03728 70 % 1 2 (Whereupon a recese was taken at 12:50 p.a. and the i deposition reconvened at 1:50 p.a.) 3 4 HR. CLASSER: j i We have had a lunch break since 5 approximately an hour ago, and when we i 6 returned, Hr. Houghton had not had an 7 opportunity to review the docuaent that we 8 left with hia, naaely the Heaoen docuaent 9 which we aarked as Houghton Exhibit Number 10 5. Since we've been back ten ainutee or so, 11 he has had tine -- 12 HR. SHANNON: Pive. 13 14 BY HR. CLASSER: (Continued) Q S 16 You've had soae time, Mr. Houghton, to review the large docuaent and the three-page peperclipped 17 18 A 19 Q 20 portion? M- ! I've gone in deatail on the one Oarlock. ; i Do you have any recollection of an exaainatlon or | evaluation having been nade by the repreeentatlvee of | 21 the Industrial Hygiene Foundation of Aaerlca around the 22 1947 tine frane ae a part of an investigation of ; approximately ten plants that the leheetoe Textile cMidtou/n (^Reporting Service 501 eSquatt D 0372? 71 -1 2 3 6Q 7 8 9A 10 Q 11 12 13 A 14 Q 15 16 17 A 18 Q 19 A 20 21 22 23 Insti tuta was overseeing? a definite report, I cannot accurately say. I know that. As I understand your testiaony, were there reports or evaluations u d of the Palayx^planJ: .ft, aid 1940's? Since you say in the area of the 40's, yes. What you don't have any specific recollection of Dr. Heaeon coaing through and reviewing your plant and writing this report. No. Did Garlock have arather unusual interplant heating systea where extra heat froa one plant was carried over to another plant? Heating? Heating orexcess hot air reaoval. Bach plant had its own heating systea froa the power plant's supply of steaa. Our own theraostat would take care of our unit. Each building was a unit, but there was no puaping of air around. It was steaa heated by independent heating units. cMidtown cRepoztinp cSczuice 50/ cSyuaxt *3ui fJtnj D 03730 72 1Q 2 3 4 5 6A 7Q 8 9 10 11 A 12 13 14 Q 15 16 17 A 18 19 Q 20 21 22 23 A Staying with the period around the date of this report, i namely, July 1947, were you aware that there warn | 7 j concern in the Aebeetoa Textile Industry to try to j determine or verify whether the 8 million level was in ! I fact a safe or sure level? ! No. Were you aware that there were efforts among the j various asbestos textilemanufacturer through the | Asbestos Textile Institute to exchange Information on j i how to improve things? 1 i I think it was an independent effort to improve your particular unit. We weren't -- I was not concerned with other units. But if you had good information, you were willing to share it through the Asbestos Textile Institute with others? , Willing. I was always willing but there was not a constant feeding from one to another. 1 Was it your understanding in the aid 1940's that the 5 i l j million particle standard that we have discussed was j not positive insurance that no disease would occur, it ! was more of a goal to strive for, is that correct? j It was more as a goal, yes, that's -- I was not in the cM id to u m cR epoxtin g cSexaice 5 Of cSquan 'E u ifJiiy 0 0 3 ^oA 73 1 2Q 3 4 5A 6 7Q 8A 9 10 Q 11 A 12 Q 13 14 15 A 16 Q 17 18 19 A 20 Q 21 22 A 23 health department. As an engineer, were you aware that there was the electron microscope was in existence in the 1946-1947 time frame? To answer that question, I couldn't say -- no, I was not aware tha^ it was available for our use. But were you aware that it had been invented? Oh, I think I may have heard that they had developed the microscope. The electron microscope? The electron microscope; yes. Am I correct that the electron microscope had an ability to see things at a far greater magnification than a regular light microscope? Yes, I've heard that. Here you aware that there was concern expressed in the 1947 time frame that the light microscope was not a good device for counting very small asbestos fibers? No, I didn't hear that. Did you know the difference between a fiber and a particle? I think the definition was a fiber was of some 5 microns or over; a particle was a spot. cM id to w n aR epoxtm g cSczuice 501 0 \mti cSquatt D 03732 74 1Q Would it be fair to say that a fiber was three tines 2 longer than it was wide and a particle was nore of a 3 rounded shape. 4 MR. SHANNON: I object to that. 5A No, I can't say that. 6 MR. SHANNON: He hasn't testified to anything like 7 that. 8A I can't say that. 9Q I'a showing you a page that cones out of the Heneon 10 report, Houghton Nuaber 5, that has a copy of what 11 purports to be a photoaicrograph. Do you see where I 12 show that? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Have you ever seen in the 1947 tine fraae pictures or 15 studies of asbestos that were produced under an 16 electron aicroscope? 17 A No. 18 MR. GLASSER: I aa going to request the court 19 reporter to conflra that this has been marked 20 as Houghton Nuaber 6 and pursuant to ay off- 21 the-record discussion with Jia Shannon, I am 22 going to give you today the cover sheet of 23 that exhibit, and I'll discuss it on the cM idtown ^Reporting c Service 50/ 0 03733 75 1 recors. My notations ware basically ay own 2 cues that give as an abbreviated portion of 3 the text. I really don't have an objection 4 to that being filed. I think it would be 5 nicer to have a nice clean copy, but rather 6 than run the risk I'a going to leave her this , 7 copy and then if I can supply her with a 8 clean copy, then it will be substituted. The 9 copy of the text is identical^ 10 MR. SHANNON: I don't have any objection of what 11 ever you want to do. If you want to supply 12 her with a clean copy at a later time, that's 13 perfectly all right. 14 MR. GLASSER: Pusuant to that I'a going to add to 19 page ono the rest of this bulk. 16 MR. SHANNON: Off the record. 17 (Whereupon a discussion was held off the record.) 18 (WHEREUPON HOUGHTON EXHIBIT 5 - 8 5 19 pages; first docuasnt being "Report of 20 Preliminary Dust Investigation For Asbestos 21 Textile Institute, June 1947 - WAS MARKED FOR 22 IDENTIFICATION.) i 23 Q Mr. Houghton, did you have any occasion, sir, in the c M id to u m SOI < zR e p o x tin q c S e tu ic e cSqaat* 0 03734 76 1 2 3A 4 5Q 6 7A 8Q 9 10 A 11 Q 12 13 A 14 15 16 17 18 19 Q 20 A 21 Q 22 23 1940's to attend any of the aeetings of the Asbestos Textile Institute? I have no record that I know of of ay attending in the 40's. I think ay start was in the 50*s. Has it Mr. Abbott who attended ATI for Garlock in the 1940's? He prtibly jfV Hh'erfi attended,'he did not. When he attended in the 40's, did he ever report to you what had been discussed? I cannot recall any reports froa hia. Do you know to whoa he would ordinarily report in the 1940's? It aight have been through the various different factory aanagers, Cecil Hubbard for a nuaber of years, and ay neaory is poor, but there were probably a period of not aors than five or six years of any one of the various aanagers when soaething took place and they would change or they died. Mr. Hubbard, you told as, is no longer available? He's dead. I guess he's been dead for 20 years. Do you know whether any of the aanagers of any of the asbestos-producing Garlock plants froa the 1940's are still alive and available? c M id to u jn 501 ( R e p o ttin g c S fsjrr cS e zo tc e D 03735 77 1A 2 3 4 5Q 6 7 8 9 10 11 A 12 Q 13 14 15 16 17 Q 18 19 A 20 Q 21 22 23 I don't think so. Mullen is dead and oh, fella that lived down here, he's dead. Ho, there aren't aany of thea alive. All along the line, they've dropped off, and they didn't work in the asbestos plant. Me have" talked about various dust counting techniques that wars used* within the piant'"bn the carding and other dust*-prodelng'"peb<fblons. To*your knowledge, did Oarlock ever itiO'tste to nSeterelne^the duet count of how thertrrodtict would act when it was being1used by the user? Not that I know of, no. To your knowledge, did Oarlock ever publish any booklet or put down in a report for its custoaers what precautions should be taken when people, users, were using asbestos containing products froa Oarlock? (Whereupon a discussion was held off the record.) Were you shaking your head before we went off the record? I can't give you any positive answer, no. To your knowledge, at any tins while you were with Garlock, did they ever place a warning on their asbestos-containing aaterlale to warn people of any hazard that night be associated with the use of the <zMidtown cRepoztiruj (Service 5Of `Jtmtt cSfWdf `UutfJtnf D 03736 78 1 products? 2A 3 It was not ay Job." I'don't'"know ofartybnendoin"that, j i but I cari' j 4Q How long did you rasain Id'thBeap36y~bf GArleck? 5A Thirty-one years on sllli^tftbrd? niftbryeare*aa*a 6 consultant1After rat1 resents 7Q And ifs?'J,aAtfi3Ai?i6sliie<iotirecrt'> tftfcnV you*4fcld'have j 8 worked for Garlock froar I 1 WTOT J 9A That`s right*.**`1 r` ~ - j 10 Q On salary?" " j I 11 A On salary. I [ 12 Q And then, are served in a coneultant capacity froa j I 13 1970 to 1979? j i 14 A Tea. ! 15 Q And your answer about never having seen any warnings j 16 on any of ths asbestos-containing products -- | 17 A No. | 18 Q -- that would be true froa 1939 to 1979? j 19 HR. SHANNON: i That also assumes that he would have 20 had an opportunity to observe. You didn't 21 ask hia where he aight have served as a | Ii 22 consultant. My father is a consultant now in | 23 his old flra, and he hasn't been in the firm ! cMidtotvn cRepoxtinq Service SOt cSquat* D 03737 79 1 2Q 3 4 5A 6Q 7 8A 9 10 11 12 13 14 19 16 Q 17 A 18 Q 19 20 a 21 Q 22 23 for years. A I correct that you never froa 1939 to 1979 saw any warning on the asbeetoe-containing aateriala manufactured by Garlock? | Ho. What'-wee. the nature oi vyoum^oonsultankwork froa 1970 I to i979~foYv6eeleck? , _ j i Soae was development 'work inthe~factory<`Mainly concerned with graphite, .yarn~aad-.Ieflov.-5nae..of .it | hae been in foreign countries; Z warn-se*b'to set up | braiding plant and instruct the weaver -- the | t operators on asking braided packings, both in France i i and in the Philippines. For one period, I examined a j i textile plant reporting back conditions I found in that plant in Spain. Were these all Oarlockplants? All Oarlaok planta. Has Paliyra always been its primary manufacturing site f o r ^ M B b t and textiles? nt'priiminr, ya. Did Oarlock, to your knowledge, ever share aay of the information it had about the Importmes of reducing dust where asbestos dost was being generated? Did it oMidtawn cRepottinq cSetuice 50/ Jim ti cSquaxt 0 03738 80 1 2 3A 4 5Q 6 7 8A 9Q 10 11 12 13 14 A 13 Q 16 17 18 A 19 Q 20 21 22 A 23 Q share that Information with1 any of- tha aoro or"* j | purchaooro of-ita poodnot7 j I was not in on any of that, no. Aa for'Ohfluck doing I it, I ean*<t~give yarn aneaMwer.' <* j Whan did-you^firat become aware odvany'awoeiation i between the inf iltration'Of ^aebeetoerfiberspand'any | ! fora of cancer?* * ~* "*' Yon eay when? ^That^trcaarttigi vengoarcawfood" answer. | I have-a paper that l a i n ibsrdIoouoa4 ftgawtftpyou* in a j i atterofmoaeittenfrsa'Marcfcoofl996 nfce*e tha*records indicate you attended* aa ATI meeting? bat I want to ask some leading questions first, mien did you first start attending ATI meetings? Probably about 1960. j But if a record indicates that you had attended earlier, could you have attended as early ae March of ! I 1999Tefe.-. iI Baefnipair meuory. possibly, m Philadelphia. That's correct, that's correct. Did you know the name { in the 1950'a of the Saranac Laboratories in Saranac, New York? I think I'll have to say no. Did you know the name as beat you can recall, Mr. czMidtoum (^Reporting cSexuicc 5 Of 0 imti cSfaar* e3uifJt*f r 1 ......... . . * . 4 4`4 03?39 81 1 2A 3Q 4A 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Q Houghton of Dr. Garrett Sceepere? No. Did you know the name of Dr. Wilhela Hueper? I'll have to eay no. Let ae ehow you the docuaent that I had reference to and I'a going to ehow you and your" aT^oVneye two different docuaents which I aa going to Bark nuabers Houghton Nuaber 8 and HoughVon Vunber Hoghtbn Nuaber 6 will be the ainutee of tHie general aeeting of * ' '* '*.*' ^ ( iN C 'N H e*Q -a 1** ,. , the Aebeetoe Textile Inatitute held Mfcrch 6 , 196B in Philadelphia, Penney!vania, and Houghton Nuaber 7, though inconsietent chronologically, will be the ainutee of the aeeting of the Board of Governore of the ! Aeboetoe Textile Inetitute held on March 7, 1958 in Philadelphia, and let ae give a copy of theee to cDifnsel. (WHEREUPON HOUGHTON EXHIBITS 6 and 7 - Mjfinltfti of March 8 , 1956 and March 7, 1956 acetinge of the Aebeetoe Textile Inetitute, respectively - WERE MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Mr. Houghton, I'm turning to now what the court reporter hay mnrkt:.l ay Houghton Number 6 , and in terns (zMidtown czRcpoxtinq cSexoice SOI Uimt! cSy*j:r 'EuifJinf ... -V. ~"-~t Q Q3 7 4 Q 82 f 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 of the general fora, can you Identify thle fora aa being what you recall the Asbestoe Textile Inetitute ainutee generally to look like? A Hell, it looka like the type of report that we received. Q And do you see your naae on page 1? A Right here, there and here. (Indicating.) Q And so that the record is clear, the two places that you referred to, number one was on the list of those in attendance over on the right-hand side of the page in the aiddle, in all cape it says, "Oarlock Packing Company," and it says 0 . K. Houghton, that's you, is that correct, sir? A Tee. MR. SHANNON: Attending as a guest. MR. GLASSBR: Attending as a guest, that's right. Q And the second place where your naae is listed is in paragraph nuaber one where it states in the next to of that paragraph that Nr. 0. B. Houghton, Oarlock Packing Coapany, and Prank Oatke, Asbestoe Textile Coapany were in attendance at the meeting and also were in attendance at the Air Hygiene nesting on March ?th, okay? ____________________________________ __________________________ cMidtoivn cRepottinq cSetuice .?5 0i `J..t.m tt-vc.Sq. usnu/..; 0 03741 831 A 2Q 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 A 13 14 16 Q 16 17 18 19 20 21 IH h All'right. If If you turn over to pug* 2, In paragraph nuabar 6 , It Indicate that at th aeetlng on March 7th, th day before, that one of the natter that wee fully discussed were the coanenta of Dr. Saith, that's Kenneth Wallace Snlth of the Johns Manvilla Corporation, which related to the report issued by Dr. ~*BT Hueper, who was with the Rational Cancer Institute, on a subject relating aebeetoeia with laag and heart disease wee discussed at great length. Do ytnKeee where I'a reading that? I see where you're reading It, yes, but T as not at ! I that earlier aeetlng. This was aa earlier neeting, j wasn't it? i I understand bat If you will turn back with as and see whether this refreshes your recollection. Xa. paragraph j nuaber. 1 Jit etatse, aadr 1*11 read* it fn its entirety I and"yeet^read with aa. "The seating was called to order j I by ft'opiiint Kakea and aa address of wecans satended to i IT of"thS"seabers present. RScognitlett sad welcoae j was also extended to representstives of two foraer -nr''*,.SBJtesau*... aeaber coapanies who attended the aeetlng of the Air Hygiene CoaaTt^ee^on March 7 and wen?a25^fn j cMidtown Reporting cSetvice SOI lu rn i cSqumu `Buttjim f ... _-v. H.-tt utu D 03742 ii 84 1 3 4A 6Q 6 attendance at this eating, naaely, 0. K. Houghton, j Oarlock Packing Copany, and Hr. Frank Oatke, Asbestos j t Textile Coapany." Do you seo where I've read that? ! | This apparently ay first aeetlng with the ATX. I But the question is raised concerning the nesting on March 7th, and for that I would ask that ws turn to 7 the other exhibit that X gave yea which you now have in i 8 front of you, and this is-the one for March 7th, and do | 9 you see -- and I'd like you to look at paragraph 2^, 10 and take a aoasnst. It's difficult to reed. 1'lljps 11 happy to read it with you. Can you read it? 81r, 12 while you're flipping on the light te ess better, do j II 13 you reasaber Dr. Kenneth Wallace Saith froa the 14 Johns-Mauvilie Osoperatise? 15 A X cannot give any aecurate reaesbmaee o f this 16 Q Are you Mtr> te read it, Mr. Houghton? 17 A Most of the words' f 'com tiedsirstand .*^r 18 HR. SHANNON: Off the record. 19 (Whereupon a diacueslon was held off the record.) 20 Q 21 You'awf^wTll read it together; ISe. geiag te read it and she'll take it down so the recorar la.deer. Starting on i, it *3 report wee presented cM iJtotvn cRcpottinq cSctuice SOI *7n<i eSfiMU H u lfJ tf ^IcrC It t t t 0 03743 3 4 6 6 7 8 A Q coaalttee, Or. Kenneth Salth and Nr. D.R. Koine, chairaan of the conlttee. Dr. Salth addreeeed the meeting flret with remarks directing attention to a report ieeaed by Or. Baeper titled 'Public Health Monograph #36, A quest lata the environmental causes of cancer of the lung. 1 Mali of the information set forth in this report is unsubstantiated and le In variance with established understanding aad knowledge of . informed aen in the aedlcal profession; however th^s article is apparently aeeuaod to bo the only authentic treatise today aval labia,which any bo used ae-w, reference for court actlea Ihevelvlag aebeatools and its relationship to heart ttaoaao and lung cancer. Dr. Salth strongly recoaaenMd tfcstr the Institute initiate a program of investlgatl^''ai^M'patfI2olty to counteract the unfavorable publicity tfseosatlg directed to the asbeatoe Induetries ad`W rWg>l>'-egrtBh wash of Or. Hueper. " It was recommended that tit ThdustrlW Air HygIVNb foundation be engaged"to owl lost the necessary iriforaafIwi"to publ 1ciaa^Sw^reeuits so obtained." Did I reed that cserecSAy? Yoo* Do you recalT the preesa1 iBennetil Saith cMidtoion Reporting Service 5 Of *7*1**% cSfvcT# f3*U*j D 03744 86 1 concerning the article that had been written by Dr. Rueper aeeoclatlng asbestosis and lung cancer? 3A If I had seen that. It would have been fron a report | 4 6Q 6 7A 8Q because I wasn't at that nesting. i If you will turn back with ae to Houghton Nuaber 6 , do | you recall being at the nesting on March 8 , 1956? j i Tee. I Do you recall at that nesting aa is reflected'by Runber 9 6 of those ainutes that the report concerning Dr. I 10 Rueper'a article was discussed at the nesting that you 11 were in attendance at on March 8 , 1956? Do you 12 reneaber any discussion such as ig reflected by Nuaber 13 14 A 15 Q 6 of the ainutes? ! i To recall? No. i Do these ainutes, and take your tins aaf review then, * and see whether any of the natter the discussed help to !> serve or* refresh year iniTNlUpt 11 m 18 MR. GIiASSER: Off the record. 19 (Whereupon a discussion was held off the record.) 20 MR. GLASSKR: Jia Shannon has pointed out to ae 21 that in Houghton Nuaber 6 , the ainutes froa 22 March 8 , 1966 that there is a very obvious 23 deletion of four or five inches or so in the <cMidtown cRcpoxtiny Setaice SO! Oirntt cSquatt `B u iU iD f ... r( u6>4 0 03745 87 1 2 3 4 3 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 19 16 A 19 Q Q 21 22 23 A iddle of page 2 of those minutes. There Is a partially visible 6 in the left-hand nargin apparently marking paragraph 9 which has been blocked out. My best knowledge is that this I is a copy of what we have in our office j expressly, so that no question is raised, it ! is nothing that we have blocked out, and yet i I leave open the fact that should anyone be able to produce a bonified copy of the , minutes of this meeting, that we will be ! happy to receive that as an exhibit or perhaps a supplemental exhibit which we could aark 6A for whatever value that is. My copy does not reflect paragraph 3, and I have no information as to what it is or how it got blocked out. I remember being at this meeting, but then you asked me j do I recall these various items. My answer would be | i no. i My concern, Mr. Houghton, is to determine do you j recall any mention associating asbestos or asbestosis with lung cancer from the meeting? Oh, I think I've absorbed that over the years. cMidtoujn cRepoxtiruj Service 50t Utmei cSf* V uitd,*, i,... f7A-r U 6 I 4 0 03746 88 1Q What about in the tlae fraae around March of 19967 Oo 2 you recall having looked at this, and I don't aean to 3 try to ask do you reaeaber everything, but I'a trying 4 to deteraine do you have any recollection as to whether 6 you had heard anything concerning the association of 6 asbestosis and lung cancer in the- 1998 tiae fraae? 7 MR. SHANNON: I object to the question because it's 8 been asked an answered at least two or three 9 tines now, and the continued repetition of it 10 is beginning to suggest an answer to hia. 11 MR. CLASSER: 12 MR. SHANNON: 13 I don't aean for it to do so. I know you don't aean it. It's going to have that effect if you keep asking it of 14 hia. 19 Q Do you understand ay question? 16 A I understand do I have that knowledge, but not -- I 17 don't recall when I got the knowledge. Q 3 19 20 Do you recall whether or not you would have received a copy of the alnutes of the aeetlng that you attended? Wasn't that generally the praetioe of -- 21 A The practice would be about a aonth after the aeeting. 22 Q 3 And wee it your personal practice with regard to aeetings that you had attended to read or review the c M id to iv n ^ R e p o rtin g 501 ^ ir r t i cSqvat* c S e tu ic e 0 0374? 89 ainutea that war* aant to you? j A I 3Q Yea. 1 I And ia it not aore likely than not that you would have j 4 received a copy of theae ainutea, and I'a referring to j | 5 Houghton Nuaber 6 which haa your naae aentioned? 6 MR. SHANNON: i Z object. That calla for coaplete | 7 apeculation. He'a he told you that he j 8 9 10 11 12 Q reaeabera being at the aeeting, but he can't reaeaber the apecific topica. Now you're j aaking if he reaeabera receiving the i docuaent. That'a a different queetlon, but do you recall 13 receiving a copy of theae ainutea? 14 A Z recall receiving copiea of ainutea, yea. Thia ! 15 particular one, Z can give you a poaitive answer. i 16 Q Guatoaarily when you did receive ainutea, you would | 17 review thea? 18 A Yea. Yeara have go by. 19 Q Z underatand that, Z really do, Mr. Houghton, and Z j II J 20 know that the queation la tough. You never had i 21 occaaion in reading ainutea that you received froa I 22 ATZ aeetlnga to aay well, that'a wrong, that didn't 23 happen or make any correction to any ainutea? cMtdtoivn cReportinq cSezuice 50/ Otmei cffMat 'SuifJt/tj o 03748 1 90 1A /T" Q 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 A 12 Q 13 A 14 Q 18 Ms 3A 18 Q 19 A 20 21 Q 22 23 Ho. Going to a different topic, Mr. Houghton., are you aware that In 1957 on Noveaber 14, 1987 a^-Worker's Coapeneatlon clala was filed by a lady by the naae of Grace Baylord oAeiaing *hat-ebe had- wither pulaonary fibrosis or pulaonary asbestos la and her job or work place was the textile dapartaent where she hadnbeen eaployed lateral tentlyfom <2 yearn daring-the L923 to 1967 tlMi^fraae? Do you reaeebeeaor^kasw Grace Baylord? Yes. That was her aarrled naas. Mas she a worker under your supervision? Yes. Here you aware that In 1967 she filed a Worker's Coapensatlon clala against Oarlock for pulaonary asbestosis? I~think. ay answer would be yee. And you're aware that she was paid funds then? I don't recall seeing that report, but Z know she filed a clala. Has she the first clala for aabestosis that you are aware of at Garlock or were there ones earlier than 19877 cMtdtoujn czRepozting cSetvice 01 U m t! cSqvau "ButUimf 0 0374? 91 1A I can't answer that. j 2Q You don't recall any before 1967? j i 3A Ho, I don't recall any. Q Do you know what her job was in the textile department? O- A I think she was a twister operator. Twister means a 6 machine that combines two or aore threads together and 7 twists it. She was a twister operator. 8Q Did the twieter have a local exhaustventilation j 9 10 A 11 12 13 system? ! iI No. The yarn is spun so it doesn't produce much dust, so the twister is relatively a clean machine. The spinning frame produced dust. That's the one I put machine dust recovery equipaent on. 14 MR. GLASSER: Off the record. 15 (Whereupon a discussion was held off the record.) 16 Q What period of time did you attendthe ATImeetings ^ 17 yourself? 18 A Most of the meetings from that date there. 19 Q Prom list? 20 A 21 '86. Most of time I attended up to 1970. I think that there were not many that -- I didn't attend one. There's one I did not attend was down in South 23 Carolina. It was at a Hilton Head. cM idtown (^Reporting (Service 50/ met cSqvaxt i 0 03750 92 j 1Q They had approximately how many meetings a year? 2A It wae two, eoaetimes three. 3Q 4A Did you serve on any committees? Oh, yes, we would break up into committees, but I 9 haven't clear-cut records of committees I served on, -T i o 6 but we would have a general meeting, then we would meet 7 in groups, probably mostly reflecting that sections we I 8 were involved in. 9Q Did anyone else attend meetings with you from Oarlock? A 11 Q 12 Tee. Who generally would attend with you or in addition to you? j 13 A It wae not always the same one. I can't give you | I 14 those names. I'd have to work on ay memory, which 19 isn't very good. I can't give you a list of names. I i 16 know that Sedella Dixon went with me in the latter part j 17 because he came with ue in 1967. 18 MR. SHANNON: Off the record. 19 (Whereupon a discussion was held off the record.) 20 Q 21 I understood your testimony that starting with 1966 and continuing through 1970 that you attended many of the 22 meetings yourself and you rarely aieeed any. 23 A Yes. Midtown Reporting (Service 5 Of ^r-ret cSquatt II 0 0375i v 1Q 2 3A 4Q 5 6A 7 8Q 9A 10 Q 11 A 12 13 Q 14 A 15 Q 16 17 18 A 19 20 21 Q 22 23 The one that you aiseed was In Hilton Head, that your j I aware of? That's the only one that stands out in ay mind. | And In addition to your attending, there were other | people who would, on occasion, attend froa Garlock? Yes, there would be frequently there would be one j other. Mr. Kuzauk? i Kuzauk. Did Al Dayton ever go? I don't think Ireaeaber Al Dayton being with ae. He was on the safety coaaittee. Did you go to any Beatings of the ATI after 1970? I think not. When you went to aeetings of the ATI between 1956 and 1970 and returned to Palayra, to whoa would you report what had happened at the aeeting? It would only be the factory nanager. Factory aanager soaetlaee was the vice president, but it would be the factory aanager that I would directly report to. And your position, Mr. Houghton, when you caae in, you were initially, I believe you told us, a superintendent in the textile departaent? czMidtoivn tzRepoxtinq Service SOt eSqualr D 0.^752 94 1A 2 3 4 5 6 7Q 8 9A 10 11 Q 12 A 13 14 15 16 17 Q 18 19 A 20 Q 21 22 23 Up until 1958 and then they wanted ae to go In the new j ml88lle department, so I wae aoved over to the ! i engineering departaent froa then on, I worked in the aissile departaent and then he worked on deyelopaent for Chevron and other producte, probably aainly Chevron. Did you continue to have.sontapt with^thpes ,plants j ji that were aaking aebeetgg-g9b|;ai^ngnfterials7 ! When an Asbestos Textile neeting would take place, they'd ask ae if Z could.go. And you would attend for the coapany? I i Yes. Z was the -- up until -- now, that wae -- yes, ! 1970. Froa then on, Z didn't attend, bat that wae 1960 iI that Z started working on engineering, bat Z was still ! i I more or less related to the textile departaents, aore or less consultant for textile probleas. And still attending the Asbestos Textile Znstitute aeetings? Y ea. Zs it fair to state that one of the topics that was discussed at aany nestings was the health effect associated with exposure to asbestos and ways to control it duet? d M idtown a.Repotting (Service 50/ cSyuart D 03753 95 1A 2Q 3 4 3 6A 7Q 8 9 10 11 12 A 13 14 16 Q 16 A 17 Q 18 A 19 Q 20 A 21 Q 22 23 So b , not all. It was discussad at aoaa Beatings but not all Beating. Did there coae a tine where you heard any diecuseion at the A8beetoe Textile Institute about the need to place warnings on asbestos-containing products? I recall nodiscuesion on warnings; After 1970. when you were no longer on the payroll but were serving as a consultant to Oarlock, were you kept abreast as to duet count* thatTWere going on at the plant and what the asbestos levels were in those dust counts? Only in discussions. We had developed a new plant and I was following that. Out in Sherbrook. I was aware of what was happening there. Did you know who Nr. H.R. Hughes was? Hughes? That's not clear in ay aind. Do you know who Nr. L.A. Green was? Green? Yes. sir. No. Are you aware as to whether or not Gar lock was cited for any occupational safety and health violations in the 1972 tiae frame under the new OSRA law? (zMidtoum (Reporting cSetoice SO/ D 03754 I I 96 I 1A 2Q 3 4 6 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 A 14 15 Q 16 17 A IS Q 19 A 20 Q 21 A 22 Q 23 I didn't hear of it. I In your experience ae an engineer, did you ever have J occasion to use yourself or to hear of anyone else who 1 i used a tindle-beaa laap to help visual observation of j i dust aoveaents, and what I*a showing Mr. Houghton as I speak is a letter dated August 18, 1972 froa Turner I Brothers Asbestos Coapany Liaited to a Mr. O.J. Kamel, Vice president International Operations, Garlock Inc., 1260 Midtown Tower, Rochester, which has a Garlock j "received" staap on it of August 31, 1972 with the notation "vice president engineering." You see the reference on page 2 of this letter? I do not renenber hearing of that. I knew that Kamel was president, but I did not hear of that. You never had occasion in evaluating any dust to use a tindle light -- No. -- to help you to see the dust or the fibers? i Only thisBausch & Loab. iI The Bausch ALoanb counter that you described? That one. Mr. Houghton, when you were with Garlock, even in the very late 1930's and 1940's, were you aware that the cMidtown dRepozttny cSetoice 501 'Jt'na cSquatt 0 03755 1 2 3 4A 6 6Q 7 8 9A 10 Q 11 12 A 13 14 Q 15 16 A 17 18 Q 19 20 21 A 22 Q 23 A I 97 i I Garlock asbestos-containing products were going to be used by various mechanics, asbestos workers, insulators as a part of their day-to-day jobs? The products we sade were not of the insulation type. We made packing rings, gaskets. i But you were aware that Garlock gaskets, for exasple, would be used on ships to work with flanges and valve | j covers? ! j Yes. j i Were you aware that Garlock gasket aaterials were being , ! sold to the government for use aboard ships? When you way you were aware, I was not connected with i the sales departaent. Z knew gaskets were being made. And did you know that gaskets were or soae of the gaskets would be used aboard ships? Well, just in conversation I would say I would assune they would be, but I was not connected with sales. Were you also aware that other aaterials, perhaps from your days at Manville, were being used to go on pipes and boilers, turbines and heat-generating equipment? That type of product was made by Johns-Manville. i I I understand. I knew that that was being made for boilers and c^Midtoum Repotting cSetmce 50/ met cSqvatt C-B M n , D 03754 1 2Q 3 4 5A 6Q 7 6 9 10 11 12 A 13 14 15 16 Q 17 18 19 A 20 Q 21 22 23 turbine. And did you also know that some of the gaskets th wers being made by Garlock would also end up being used on boilers and turbines? Not then. I didn't even know who Garlock was. Let me clarify. Once you came to-work for Garlock and you knew that they were making compressed gasket sheeting and gaskets, you wero-aware that-.some -ofwthe Garlock gaskets would be- used on boiler, and turbine couplings and on- pipes 1sealing off. of. boilers and turbines? List of names did not coae to me in the textile department, but X knew Garlock was making gaskets. It was up to the sales department where they were to go to. And you knew that the Garlock gasket materials foreseeably could be used on all of these hot machine processes? fly answer is yes. You also knew, did you not. that the gasket materials that Garlock was making, though new at the time that you manufactured them, ultimately had a limited life span when they were subjected to the high temperature czMidtoum cRepoxtinq Service 501 Otfret cSquaxe 0 03757 99 1 2 3A 4Q 9 6A 7Q 8 9A 10 Q 11 12 13 14 A 15 Q 16 A 17 18 19 Q 20 21 22 A 23 Q heats for which thsy wars Intended!? They would not last forever. l Oh, I know that replaceaents are needed. j You would be out of business if they did didn't need soae replacements^ I was not a maintenance san. X understand, but you know that the materials ultimately to bo. replayed with psw-ones. That's alaost an axiom.... I agree, and you knew that where there were boilers or turbines that were insulated that not only would the j insulation have to be replaced but that the gasket fittings would also have to be replaced. Nobody ever discussed that with ae. But you are aware of that? No, I wasn't aware of it. X wasn't even thinking about j it. How could I be aware of it when X didn't know where it was being used? What I'a trying to clarify is that you knew that the products, the gasket materials that Garlock was making ultlaately would have to be replaced. Well, you said those words. Do you agree with ae that -- cM idtown aRcpoztiny cSezuice 501 cSqualt 'SuifJtnj 0 03758 100 1A I agree that generally things have to be replaced. 2 There's nothing that we Bake that's permanent. 3Q Are you aware that once a gasket had been subjected to 4 the intense heat of a boiler -- 5A What is intense heat? 6Q I can use a number of 600 pounds pressure upwards. 7A What is the temperature? 8Q 600 degrees upwards. 9A The asbestos would stand that, maybe not the rubber. 10 Q Well, that's helpful. Once your gasket material that 11 Oarlock made the asbestos containing gaskets, whether 12 it was rubber coated or however it was coated, once it 13 had been subjected to high temperature, there would be 14 some deterioration of the carrier product, am I 16 correct? 16 A Probably. 17 Q Are you aware as to how mechanics in the field would 18 remove a worn out or burnt out or gasket that needed to 19 be replaced? Are you aware that they would use knives? 20 MR. SHANNON: I object now. Richard, you asked him 21 a question, now you're trying to go back and 22 give him the answer. 23 MR. GLASSER: I have a right to ask questions as 1 cA tid to ic n <zRepottin<j S ervice S C I ~7 -nei cffuaT, o 0375? r 101 1 2Q 3 4 5 6 7A 8 9Q 10 11 A 12 Q 13 14 A 15 Q 16 17 A 18 19 20 21 22 Q 23 see fit and you have a right to object. Are you aware or did you understand that once gasket materials had been used and subjected to heat and had to be replaced, that workers soaetiaes would have to scrape or file or cut the gasket froa the pipe or turbine -- I night ask you that question. How would you answer it? My question for you, Mr. Houghton, is were you aware of how theaechanics installed your product in thefield? Ho. Here you aware of how they reaoved your products in the field? Ho. All you were aware of ie that ultiaately they would need replaceaent, aa I correct? Placed another order. Ho, that kind of a question is not -- Most of us aren't concerned with that, then you say aa I aware. Ho I wasn't aware, but Z know that we've got a replaceaent order. That's up to the custoaer not as. I understand, Iunderstand. The pointI'a trying to get to, if we can assuae that there would be a hazard czMidtoivn Reporting (Service 501 1,m,, c-V" 0 03760 102 ! 1 when the person who went to scrape an asbestos- 2 containing gasket off of a hot pipe had to reaove the 3 old gasket so a new one with a good hot seaa could be 4 replaced, whose concern was it at the Oarlock 5 organization to sake sure that the hazard was reduced 6 or that the people who would be reaove the asbestos 7 gasket would be advised of the hazard? Whose *- . 8 responsibility was that in the Oarlock organization as 9 you reaeaber it? 10 MR. SHANNON: I object to that question because it 11 iaplies that soaeone had a specific respon 12 sibility as you have exactly described it. 13 MR. GLASSER: Then I would aaended ay question. 14 Q Whose responsibility, if anyone, was that at Oarlock? 15 A Not Oarlock. How he gets it off there is net Oarlock's 16 responsibility and who was it deciding that it was 17 hazardous? If it's hazardous, why wasn't his director 18 -^jnMagunre of it? 19 MR. SHANNON: He has to ask the questions and you 20 just have to respond. 21 A I'll leave you to think it out. 22 (Whereupon a brief recess was taken.) 23 BY MR. GLASSER: (Continued) c M id tow n 50/ (zR e p o ttin g cS e iu ice D 03761 103 1Q 2 3 4 3 6 7 8A 9 10 11 12 Q 13 14 A 13 16 17 18 Q 19 20 21 22 A 23 Q Mr. Houghton, to your knowledge, did Garlock ever go in I and take any dust sample or dust counts of any of its | asbestos-containing gasket material after it had been j on a hot turbine or boiler for a long period of time j | for the purpose of determining how much asbestos dust ! was generated trying to remove and clean the pipe j flange? j I, not being in the sales department or where things j i were -used, I couldn't answer that accurately. I dog't remember anything like that being done, but as far as any report to me goes -- Who would be the best person whose available today for me to ask that question to? X don't know many people over there now. Sit down with Dick Watson and see if he can give you some guidance. He's closely associated with the people over there. He would be able to help you. Are you aware in the 1973 time frame of any surveys that were done either at Gar lock or made available to Garlock concerning the awareness and attitude towards use of asbestos? No. This has, and I'm showing you a copy and your counsel, czMtdtouin cRcpoxtiruj cSetuice SOI cSayoi* D 03762 104 1 2 3 4 5A 6 7 8Q 9 10 11 12 A 13 Q 14 15 A 16 Q 17 18 A 19 Q 20 A 21 22 Q 23 A a received stamp from Garlock Inc. of June 11, 1973 with the stamp of vice president of engineering and it's dated May 10, 1973. Rave you ever seen this document or can you identify what that document is? I've never seen this kind of a report. I don't think there's no occasion or anyone to bring that report to me. I'm going to shift questions now to the state of Virginia. Do you know which salesman or sales representatives from Garlock had various or various distributors as their customers? No. Do you know the names of any distributors of Garlock products for the state of Virginia? No. Do you know who at Garlock was in charge of sales to the United States Government? When was that? At any time from 1939 to '79. Sales, our president was connected with sales and service, that was -- he died -- but he's dead. Is that Wes Wright? What? c M id tow n (R eporting (Service 50! cSqyjt, `BuiiJtny D 03743 105 Is that Wes Wright? Wes -- Wright? Oh, Wright? I don't remember that naae. George Townsend? Yes, he becaae president of the company. He was -- he has several jobs here at Garlock. If you could locate hin, he could tell you soae things. Are you aware, Mr. Houghton, that in 1977 a decision was aade at Garlock by the product liability comaittee 11 to put a warning on the asbestos-containing gasket 12 aaterials? 13 No, I was not in that phase of the company, so I was 14 not aware of what warnings were being proposed. 15 Aa I correct that in the field of coapressed-gasket 16 sheeting, that Garlock was one of the aajor 17 manufactures in the United States of coapressed-gasket 16 sheeting? 19 I can'lTsay I was aware of that, but I just by ay own 20 judgaent, I would say that's probably so. Johns- 21 Manville was a producer of coapressed sheet, too, but Garlock probably is a larger producer than Johns-Manville of that itea. cM id to ivn (Reporting (Service 50/ cSguart 03764 106 1Q And Nicolet was a producer of that Item, also? 2A Probably, yes. 3Q 4 Do you have an opinion as to whether Garlock was also I larger than Nicolet? 5A I'* not aware of that, because I don't know how big 6 Nicolet was. ! 7Q 8A 9Q Have you heard of or had any dealings with C a m Mango? l No. | i Kenneth Bowen? > 10 A Don11 know thenaae. 11 Q A Mr. C.C. Whiteside from the Departaent of Labor? 12 A No. I 13 MR. GLASSER: I have no further questions and I want ' 14 to thank you for being so patient with me. 15 I'm very grateful. They might have some 16 questions for you, but I do want to thank 17 you. i 18 [ 19 EXAMINATION BY MR. SHANNON: j i 20 Q I just have onequestion. Am I correct that you never I 21 did work directly in the making of compressed-asbestos { 22 sheet at any tine during your career with Garlock? 23 A For about less than two years, I was given the job as-- cM id to w n ^R eporting S ervice 50/ cSquott D 03765 107 1 for want of a better name--supervlsor of the general 2 packing division, and then after I had been in that, 3 examine covered compressed-asbestos sheet and high- 4 pressure manufacturing, I was moved to the engineering 5 to start missile filament winding, and so I know what 6 they do there, but didn't stay with it very long, but 7 as you work in a plant for 40 years, you begin to get 8 acquainted with the whole works. 9 MR. SHANNON: That's all I have. 10 MR. GLASSER: 11 MR. SHANNON: 12 And I have no further questions. We're going to ask that he read and sign it so we won't have a waiver of 13 signature. 14 This young lady is going to type this 15 up in a little booklet of what we've said 16 today, and she's going to send it to you, and 17 we want you, if you would to be kind enough, 18 to be sure that she has typed it up 19 accurately. 20 THE WITNESS: She will read it to me7 21 MR. SHANNON: Send it to you and you'11 read it, and 22 when you've read it, if she's made any 23 mistakes, you'll have a sheet that you can cMidtoiun cRepoztiny cSezuice 50/ cTi-Jti t3uifJtny q 03766 108 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 THE WITNESS: 9 MR. SHANNON: 10 11 MR. CLASSER: 12 13 14 15 THE REPORTER: 16 17 18 19 MR. CLASSER: 20 21 22 23 Bake notes of the mistakes that she aay have j aade. You cannot change your answers, but If | she typed something down wrong, you can | change that. After you've done that, you j need to sign it in the presence of a Notary j I and have it sent back, and I'a sure Carlock J can provide you with a Notary. Who would I return it to, Dick Watson? That will be fine, and he can send it | i back to her. ! i Can you indicate responding for yourself on the record approxiaately how long it would take for the record to be prepared without any extra charges? It depends on if you're going to want ae to send your copies out at the saae tine or if you want ae to hold all of thea until ! i he sends his back. I would request that you do exactly as you've indicated, namely, to send I a copy of the transcript once it's prepared to be sent to Mr. Houghton to ae, and I understand Jim Shannon and to Mr. Levinthal cM idtown czRcpoxtinq Setcice 30/ furiti Sqvair j5UlUnf D 0376? 109 1 at that stage, and then If there are any 2 errata changes that you feel are appropriate, 3 you can send us a copy of the errata sheet 4 once that*8 returned and perhaps a signed 5 cover sheet, signed by Mr. Houghton so that 6 we'll have an opportunity to review our copy 7 instead of waiting until everything is done e at your end. 9 10 n 12 l 13 14 15 16 17 I 16 19 20 21 22 0 03768 23 cM idtown czRepoztmy cSezvice 5 Of cSq*a\ ' S y i f J . f 110 ! 1 WITNESS CERTIFICATION 2 3 I, GEORGE ELWOOD HOUGHTON, do hereby certify that I have 4 read the transcript of ay testimony taken under oath on the 5 4th day of December, 1986; 6 that ay testimony in the transcript herewith, pages 1 7 through 109 is a true, complete and correct record of what 8 was asked, answered and said during the deposition; 9 and that the answers on the record as given by se are 10 true and correct, except for anything duly noted on the 11 attached errata sheet. 12 13 14 15 GEORGE ELWOOD HOUGHTON 16 17 Subscribed and sworn to before me 18 this __ day of ___________ . 1986. 19 20 21 22 My Commission Expires: 23 March __ , 19____. NOTARY PUBLIC D 03769 V/Jl k?,poAtny -S.-'. ~ -v~ LUU, hft I Lm ERRATA SHEET # \ * 1 1 1 Dated this I GEORGE ELWOOD HOUGHTON dav of .19 . 0 03770 Ill STENOGRAPHER'S CERTIFICATION 2 ' 3 I, CAROL PIENDEL RAES, do hereby certify that I am a 4|! Court Reporter in Rochester, Honroe County, New York; 5 |i that I reported in Stenotype shorthand the proceedings 6 " held on December 4, 1986 at the home of GEORGE ELW00D 7 - HOUGHTON, 516 West Main Street, Palmyra, New York in the !i 8 matter of William Stacey Overby, Plaintiff versus Garlock 9 Inc., Defendant; 10 ! that the witness, GEORGE ELWOOD HOUGHTON, was duly sworn 11 ' by me; J i; and that the transcript herewith numbered 1 through 109 13 : is a true, accurate and correct record of said shorthand 14 notes. 15 16 17 . 18 19 20 21 22 Dated at Rochester, New York 23: this 16th day of December, 1986. VLL:> k>, s . D 03771 ERRATA SHEET ** 3 23 29 29 29 29 33 33 34 34 34 35 __ IL 42 42 45 47 50 61 62 62 6: 6: 6: 7( 7( 75 77 80 rm^ lM I 4 ^and several other places) Mv mirfflTp name is Fllwnnri. 23 Last word -should be - their - 5 Seventh word should be - solution 6 Seventh word should be - tower 11 FifPh word should be - calender 14 Third and fourth words should be - this was 5 Word seven and eight should be - and hand 6 First word should be - hole 4 Tenth word should be - 64th 5 Sixth word should be - 8th 6 Sixth word should be - an 8th 9 End of sentence should read - packing for power plants. 1 Third word should be - calender 2 First word should be - Chrvsotile 9 The numeral should be - 7.000's 11 First word should be - have 3 First word should be - departments 10 Second'word should be - There 12 Third word should be - identify 23 Seventh word should be - appropriate l' Eiehth word should be - magnifying - U Last word should be - sample - Fifth word should be - had 5 Tenth word should be - had 5 Eleventh word 'should be deleted. 8 Sixth word should be - Hemeon 18 Fourth word should be - detail 1 First word should be - record 1 Fifth word should be - McMullen 6 Believe that third word was - inhalation - GEORGE ELLWOOD HOUGHTON Dated this dav of . 19 --------------- -- . _ 0 03772 ERRATA SHEET Pl| j LiM 84 I 10 I Fourth word should be - moment - 87 9 I Fifth word should be two words - bona fide 89 I 15 I Fourth word should be - can't - 89 18 Fourth word should be - gone 92 16 I Third and fourth words should be - Sudhakar Dixit 94 4 1 Fifth word should be - we - 95{ 13j Seventh word should be - Sherbrooke -________ 96}7&13| Last word of each line should be Camille - 96|4&16| Believe the correct spelling is - Tyndall - 971 121 Third to fifth words should be - -say were you 99 l| Sixth word should be -intended - 99 I believe - were - should be inserted at the end of the line. 104 Second word should be - any - JL2 Fourth word should be - for - First word should be - had - 101 lfl First word should be - manufacturers - U io; 3 | The word "examine" does not make sense - I do not recal1 what was said. 7<j 2-5 | Upon review of the question as transcribed, I believe that my proper answer would have been "Yes". I did not see warning on Garlock products between 1939 and 1979. : Dated thla GEORGE ELLWOGD HOUGHTON day oi_ 19 D 03773 EXHIBIT V D 03774 r G?<S> . /***-/<. x WW1 r tp lji** rtlm to 8 - y - f G I > - 2 9 2 --5 - 1 3 - 1 4 --1 5 - 4 2 The Oarlock Packing Co., Division St., Pelsyra, I. T. *** * > ! urcto4 ky tkk m Um DEPARTMENT OF LABOR mvimom o r M tn m o ii FRIEDA A MILLER U4wCrUl f w lr t u . v B Albany, June 4, 1942 Ip You arc hereby directed to comply w ith the following requirements of Chap. 60, Law of 1921, u * ) amended, in the building located a t DiTie ion 8t. -- Palayra -- Wayne County ^ now used for manufacturing purposes, of which you are owner and oocupant. ^ Orders explained to T . Armstrong, Safety Inepeotor. Provide an exhaust eyetee to reaove fueee or other iepurities from your faotory on seoond floor, oreated, generated or released by filling bins with powdered Materials. Pile plans and speoifioatlons in triplioate for approval aa required by Rule 701 and do not in stall, change or alter any aachinery or apparatus for any of the purposes speoified herein until plans are approved by the Department TSpecifications and copy of Rule 701 enolosed.)(Bld g . 8 4 15)30 days Cone true t and locate hood so that dust fro gr indin ; gaskets will fai: T h e oKrj ^ bfief e&d riAamwnU nianmtous t tbhe eco mh oploiedd,w i(thg a isnk e t g 10 rind due i n g maScThAiTnEeDE-PbARaTsMeEmNeTnOtP - LABOR unless otherwise specified herein. FluM tM n a mmmmataam bossau or rAcrosT ixsrtcnloow r*m H. t-n-U-UM ((-SBT) StotioetaaSMS. Alter,M.T. AjUtoii Indusvtrial Cohmmis:sioner D 03??5 *0 0 8TAT1 Or NSW YOU DEPARTMENT OP LABOR D IV IS IO N O F IN S P E C TIO N SO Cm i S>iA New York Ckjp IMPORTANT UNLOATTIXCVER TTOO EMPLOYERS COMPLIANCE W ITH EXHAUST SYSTEM ORDER Tbo Oarlook Paoklng Oo., DlYlolon 8t., Palmyra, i. T. r v.. J u n e 4 , IflA R The Labor Lew ead Code rake (or the R e a o n l of D ad, Geaee and Fume* piece the responsibility on the oinwgneexrhoafuetht eayesttearbnlisohfmsuenffticfioerntccoamppalciiatnycaenwd ipthowtheer tloawreamnodvecotdhee rdaolesst, rgealasteisv,e(ttounperso,vvidapinogr,s,ufsiibnegrsanodr motahienrtaiimn puritTiehsegoewnenrearteodf othrerfealecatoseryd iisnrtehqeuicroedurtsoe foilfe fthoer abpupsrionvesasl scpaercriifeidcaotinonisnanandyplwanosrkirnooamccoordf aancfeawctoitrhy.Industrial CthoedienRstuallleat7i0o1n oinr terxiptelincsaitoenshisomwiandge,baonthd ptolasnhaonwdaenleovuattlioinnevoiefwpodrrtaiwonnotof sbcuailledignigviwnghedriemseynsstieomnsiasntdo rhiseeisnbsteaflolerde omracehxitneensd,erde,caelpltapcolsetss,ocroalupmpanrsaoturssttorubcetucraolnnmeecmtebdetros esxutcehndexinhgauasbtosvyesteflmooorrwphipicinhgatrheeraedojfa. cent to any wheels, If specifications and plans are not submitted for approval by the person or firm to whom the order was issued, tIhnesypeccatniobneasnubamutihtetendticbycoamn mauutnhiocraitsieodn aignednictaotnfgsuthchatpseurscohnagoernftirims auptrhoovriidseedd tthoefrieleissucfuhrnspisehceifdicathtieonDs iavnisdiopnlaonfs for me person or firm to whom the order was issued. Persons or firms must file specifications and plans before the expiration date of the order, and shall cot make any installation or extension of any exhaust system until specifications and plans have been filed approved by the Industrial Commissioner, when installations or extensions are maae before approval of the specifications and plans by the Industrial Commissioner, they will be at the risk of the person or firm having a violation. If the system is not in full compliance with the law and code rules, such person or firm is responsible for the violation. 1. All machines (including sweeps) to be attached to the exhaust system are to be shown on plan. Names and sixes of the machines with the floor, basement, yard or other location shown and designated. 2. Fan--Make, size, number or design, R. P. M.--C. F. M. inlet and outlet dimensions to be given. Each fan to be designated under one of the following specifications at the fan--"New Fan," "Second Hand Fan," Recovnditioned Fagnw."W wL'lw>n ir , w ,, r a t .louble line larout. The sire of each pipe section of EXHIBIT tbxirfTn 9 ' asbestos t si-t i l s institute mbit ISNUTSS of tho General liest1^3 held June 19 194& at the Tiamick Hotel, Fniladelphia, Penna. Hi ATTZIOANCE; CSOECS L. A330TT. The Carlock Packing Co. C3DRGZ 17. 11SHALL, JR. Raybestos-Menhatten, Inc. KOT/ARD T. BAIN. John3-Menvi11e Corp. F. S E E NcCRATH, Cadwalader, TTickershaa L Taft J, A. ESTES. Raybestcs-Hanhatten, Inc. ERNEST KJuHLSCK, Keasbay & tlattiscn J, F. BURKS, J* Franklin Burke & Co* E. R. TUSHES, JR. Philadelphia Asbestos Co. C. H. CARIOUS, Carolina Asbestos Co. FRANK J, ZiSSi, Johns-llanvilie Corp. S. V. DILLON, Johns-Menville Carp. J. 21. 77EATHR, Raybestos-l'anhattan, Inc. CEDRGE S. FABEL, Southern Asbestos Co. D. TT. T/IDHAYER, Keasbey & ifattisoa HARRIS D LIcKIKNZY, Institute Manager NO. 1 The President called the nesting to order ar.d the Manager read the mirute3 of the General Meeting of April l;th. The minutes rare approved as read by unanimous vote. The President then read the auditor's report and the Treasurer's report, llr. Marshall moved that these reports be approved as read, seconded by llr. Fabel and approved unanimously* NO. 2 0 03777 The Manager presented a brief outline of the activities of his office during tbo last quarter. These included the notification to members and non-members 00 O.P.A removal of ceiling prices, distribution of Carlock Dust Control System report, correspondence with non-members regarding lianagar's Surrary Report, record of activities in gathering nccs for publicity items end his cork with th9 v e r r o u a ccrmitees. Mr. Ujchlcck cov-d that the Karager's report bo epproved as presented Motion seconded by Mr. Fabel and approTod unanimously. NO. ? The Jr'zidar.t brought up tha natter of keeping r.on-nerber companies informed on Institute activities. Discussion was held and it was recommended that the i^nnger send copies of the ninutes of this meeting, with ecccnpanying committee reports, to the following non-member companies. It wes also unanimously agreed that rapra- sentatives of these companies be invited to attend the next General Meeting of the A.T.I.t ASDE3TC3 'J2iCFACTU?.ETC CC.VT.i-Vi ASTEN-HILL KANUFACTU7H1C CO. FIBRE L METALS COMPAilY CREDE-TT7ZZD COMPANY U. S. RJB3Z3 COMPANY NO. k * The matter of publicity nsw3 releases was discussed and Mr. Marshall suggested that each xasnber company furnish the Manager with a specially-selected list of about 10 representative buyers and/or users of textiles, so that the Manager can contact them with a view to obtaining information, for news items on new products, new uses, etc, This suggestion met with full approval and the Manager will -- its to each member company regarding the required list NO. 5 ].!r. Weaver, Chairman of the Technical Conmittee, presented a report cn recent ac tivities of his Committee. (copy attached). It was the recommendation, of the Technical Committee that the Institute establish a Fellowship at Rutgers College, and to consider Dr. Kyrii C. Svaw as head-of tho activity. Mr. Febei raved that ne epproprietc a sum of $15,000. e year, for two years, to set up an Asbestes Fellowship as recommended by the Technical Committee. This notion was seconded cm D 03778 r* =3sd by all companies present. It teas understood that this Fellowship would operate under the Technical Ccmmittae who would be responsible for its supervision snd guidance* Furthermore, the recor c? tbs --t -reeormer.ded in the Technical Committee repent to head this Fellowship, Dr. Myril C. Shaw, met with the approval of the group, tut the full responsibility for selecting a can to head the Fellowship was essigsed to the Technical Committee The President pointed out that the Constitution calls for a vote by all member ten parties on natters relating to special assessments* It was therefore recommend;! that the Manager get in touch with the two absent member companies (Asbestos Textile Company and Union Asbs3tos & Rubber Company) at an early date, for puxpcs; of obtaining their approval of the Fellowship program* VO, 6 v Mr. Bain, Chairman of the Sales Promotion Committee, presented his report cn rece: activities* (copy attached). Mr. Bain stated that the "Pricer* is now in produc tion and that cost estimates obtained for preparing end printing this job are wel. within the approved figure. However, these cost estimates do not induce any mai dwg or distribution expense that might be involved* The natter of news releases was agein brought up for discussion and. it was agreed that some general publicity could be gained by sending releases about Institute General and CccBittee meetings, to publication in the textile field and to Asbestos" magazine* The Manager will accordingly do so. The Manager then presented revised layouts and copy for the space advertising pre gram. Open discussion was held on these layouts and approval was voiced informal It was agreed that details in the space advertising program should be handled through the Sales Promotion Committee. It was also agreed that the currently- D 03779 rlnnned space cdverfc isin* should include a definition* cf the Institute baaed cn thnt given ia the Coastitution. The following wording est with approvili "The Asbestos Textile Institute ia a voluntary, non-profit organization 'creed to render service to buyers acd users of asbestos textiles,* Mr. Miehlsck moved that the Sales Pronotion Ccmcittee report he approved as read. Motion seconded by Mr. Fabel and unnninously approved. i-j t In the ehsence cf Mr. Luttenberger, Chaimsn of the Fibre Improvement Committee, Mr. Marshall presented the Committee report, (copy attached) Since all members who reoissted trial lots of fibre from the Canedian Producers have not as yet sent their reports to the Manager*a office, the President sug gested that they do so as soon as possible, a The many shortcomings of the shaker box method of evaluating spinning fibres wre discussed and Mr. Lutteriberger suggested that this matter of purchasing test equipment be referred tack to his'Committee for further consideration. It was suggested that a development of test methods would be a worthy subject for study by the Pellovehip, Mr* Marshall moved that after Mr. Luttenherger makes his report on the special fibre from the Canedian producers, that another Q.A.F.A. - A.T.I- Joint Committed ceetisg he arranged, Motion seconded and unanimously approved. The Manager rill cake the arrangements for this meeting et the required time. 170. 8 Mr. Muehleek, Chairman of the Dust Control Committee, presented a report of his Committee, (copy attached), including numerous findings ami recommendatiora. D 03780 rV lb . - .5 - absl presented the tentative plan for an A.T.I. central nodical department, ( -:va3 prepared by Dr. Vestal. It was agreed that this plan should ba turned over to * the Dust Control Corrr.ittee for action, but that in the near.tima, copies of tee plan should be distributed to all naaber companies. Tie reconnraodation of the Dust Control Cosnittee to incorporate damp reaving wherever feasible was brought up for discussion. Ur. Bettes gave his reactions iron the Sales standpoint, general discussion followed, but no decisions were reach'-d. MO. Q The President complimented all Committee Chairmen on the excellent work of their Ccmitteas_, and it was unanimously agreed that a great deal of worthwhile work is being cepably handled by these Committees. Ur. TTaksm moved that, in order to ex press the appreciation of the member companies for the good work, the Manager be asked to send copies of all minutes of Institute meetings to all members of the committees. Motion unanimously epproved* MO. 10 It was unanimously agreed that the next meeting of the Institute should be held in Hershey, Pennsylvania at the Hotel Hershey on Friday, September 27, 15 k&- MO. 11 There being no further business before' the meeting, adjournment was moved, seconded and unanimously approved. HARMS D. McJONKSY Institute Manager D 03781 3 EXHIBIT IN ATTENDANCE: ASBESTOS TEXTILE INSTITUTE MINUTES of the Dust Control Coqsnittee mooting hold Vedneeday, March 13, 19*6 at the Engineers Club, Philadelphia, Pa. C. E. Carlough CAROLINA ASBESTOS CO. C. S. Fabel SOUTHERN ASBESTOS CO. T. S. Sadler CAROLINA ASBESTOS CO. A. J. Scanlon PHILADELPHIA ASBESTOS CO. Phil Cannon JOHNS-MANYTLLE CORP. John Vebor PHILADELPHIA ASBESTOS CO. Fred Armstrong JOHNS-MANVTLLE CORP. Harris D. McKinney INSTITUTE MANACER Ernest Muehleck XEASBET & MATTISON NO. 1 The meeting vas called to order by Temporary Chairman, Ernest Muehleck. It voe moved by Mr. Fable and seconded by Mr. Cannon that Mr. Muehleck be elected Chairman of the Dust Control Committee. Motion unanimously passed. NO. 2 Using the agenda preoared by Mr. Muehleck as a guide, the matter of various methods used In determining the amount of dust present in the atmosphere vas brought up for discussion. Mr. Muehleck described the Bauech & Lomb dust counter, its coats, etc. and open discussion vas held on methods used by other member companies. Mr. Muehleck suggested that each member company send a report to the Cosmlttee Chairman covering their duet count procedures, as veil ae their State and Insurance Company regulations and standards. This suggestion vas acceptable to all present. Discussion vas held on means of protection for employoes engaged In the emptying of asbestos fibre bags as received from the mines. Various types of respirators vere D 03782 -2 - type dlscussad, and It vas suggested that all member companieis aond to tho Committee Chairman a report on thalr experience vith different of respirators. The use of X-Raya aa a means of analyzing lung condltiona of omployees vas also diacuaaad In detail. It vas agreod by all that a pre-employment examination la important and further protection to the employee could be given by meana of X-Rays throughout the year. Mr. Muehleck offered to furniah to the Manager the name of the Keaabey & Mattiaon doctor who la a specialist in X-Ray reading. He also agreed to send to the Manager several fora letters vhlch the X 4 M doctor uaea in notifying employees vhoae working conditions should be changed. HO. k Dust control In the fibre preparation room vas covered in a report by Mr. Muehleck. His recommendation of the use of Sun Oil Company's No. 538 asbestos fibre condition ing oil vas discussed in detail. The problem of reduction of dust at the carding engines vas then dlocussed. Mr. McKinney presented a report from the Oarlock Packing Company relative to their duet control ayetern. Since this report eeemed to be of considerable interest to all present, it vas suggested that the Manager secure the permission of the Oarlock Packing Company to have this report copied and circulated to the member companies of the Institute. NO. 6 Before analyzing the renining problems of this Dust Control Committee, Mr. Armstrong suggested that an outline be made of the objectives at hand. Relieving the point discussed, It vae agreed that the following points vere vorthy of initial considera tion by this Conmlttee: D 03?83 ASagrog TETTIIJ D.'SHTITTE f -EXHIBIT j C-S.9V IZ-4-V 2M ATTENDINGEi ERNEST UUTHLECX* Chairman Keasbey & Mattiaon Co* Fi J ARLSTPONC. Johns-Uanville Corp* P. 0. CANNON, Johns-Manville Corp* MDWTE3 of the meeting of the Sub-Coeuittee of the Duet Control Ccoaittee held June 13. 19^6 at the Engineers' Club. Fhila.* Pa* B. I. LLTCTENBERCER, Raybeatos-iianhattaa, Inc* J. C. TYSON, Jbiledelphia Asbestos Co. KARRIS D. KcKXNNEY Institute Manager The Chairman opened the meeting by outlining the assignment of the Sub-Cosrr.ittee, stating that it was their responsibility to analyze the letters and roports fran the various member companies herein they gave facts on dust determination and control procedures in their respective plants* Copies'of the letters and reports from member companies were given to all those present* These were road end then open discussion was held on the various procedures. Consents and recaaaendations were cade as followsi 1* (A) Tha letters end reports clearly indicated the importance of the dust control problem to all member companies, and the need for imaediato cooperative eetion* (B) At present, there is wide variance in indivlduel company procedures for measuring, exhausting end collecting asbestos dust* (C) It ie the reeonaendetion of the Dust Control Cocnittee that contact be cade immediately with the proper Health Departments pr officials of (1) The U* 3. Foderal Government (2) The Statoa wherein member plonta are located ((k3)) The Mellon Institute The Uotropollton Lifo Insurance Co. 0 03784  for purposes of preparing a tentative program aimed at bringing to member companies the assistance of qualified technical and medical counsel* (D) The conmittoo also racoanonds that* pending the preparation of such a plan, the following points be considerodi (1) Pro-employment and periodical cheat X-Rays to be made, analyzed and reportod upon by a reputable Roentgenologist. (2) The method of dust count dsterminstion to be used by ths member companies, or their outside consultants, should be the standard Greenburg-Smlth Impinger method as described ' in *The Impinger Dust Sampling Apparatus' as used by tha U. S* Public Health Service, Pihlic Health Reports, 3/18/; Vol. 47 No. 12, Government Printing Office, Washington. D* C Tha method is also described in detail in the 'Analytical Chemistry of Industrial Poisons, Hazards, and Solventa* by Uorris B* Jacobs (1944), Interselence Pub lishers, Inc, New York City, On page 114, Jacobs states The Greenburg-Smith Impinger is tha standard instrument in ths U. S* for ths collection.of dusts'* He quotoa the American Publio Health Association Yearbook, 1930-40, peg 9 2 , as an authority for this statement, (3) In ths analysis of the exposures, it is importer* to dete mine as accurately as possible, tha following! (a) tha amount of dust is the air from tha various industrial operations (this to be expressed in terms of millions of particles par cu* ft, of lr sampled) D 037S5 3 (b) the size of dust particles measured mleroscopleall; (o) the mineralogical composition of dust with partic ular reference to quartz content and designated as the percent of free allies or quartz* (NOTE a description of the method of determination under (a) and (b) above is co7ered in the attached copy of letter from J* W, Fohnel, Director of Industrial Hygiene Laboratory and Field Service*) 2 The Canaittoe further recommends that the problem of asbestos dust bo coc siddred at its source* i.e., by the reduction of dust through dampening of yarn* in weaving and braiding operations* Every effort should be male by the Management of each firm to convince the Sales Divisions of the necessity* eeonooy and health advantages that would result thereby. It was generally agreed that many of the present ealos objections to moisture-controlled products really have no foundation* 3* Me , Cannon said that be would obtain for testing in the Johna-Manville .Corp* plant* every type of respirator mentioned in the member company reports, end at a lator date would roport thereon to the Ccmittoe* There being no further business before the meeting* motion for adjournment was moved* soconded and passed* ERNEST MUmLEOC, Chairman 0 3?86 NOTE: Exhibit 5 consists of 28 pages of the Hemeon Report, June 18, 1947, plus July 11, 1947 supplements pertaining to particular plants as follows: A. U.S. Asbestos (Manheim) Plant of Raybestos-Manhattan, Inc. B. General Asbestos U Rubber Plant of Raybestos-Manhattan, Inc. C. Plant of Philadelphia Asbestos Company 0. Plant of Keesbey & Mattison Company E. Plant of Carolina Asbestos Company F. Plant of Southern Asbestos Company / G. Plant of The Garlock Packing Company H. Plant of Union Asbestos & Rubber Company 1. Plant of J. F. Burke and Company J. Plant of Johns-Manville Corporation D 03787 EXHIBIT HCwWrfRn C0 # USiCTLS of the General nesting of the Asbestos Tentile Institute hold h'arch G, 19$o in Philadelphia, ?a. 3ui A . 1-- f D A J C S F. J. Waken, President JOHIIS-MA7ILL2 CO?.?. AI~IJA:; A53ISICS f~7ILI CCil? J, v;, Weber ASTE'-HILL >lAIiDFAC7RII!G CO. D. K. Koines p:,-'; '<"nrr7TT rnro Vi, C, Seeds E. A. Schuman K. ME., Q. H. S, MBeayielsxd Hough K. N. Jackson J. T. Griffis G, J. Harris R. S. nulse CASSIAS AS3ESTCS CORPOPATICIT, LTD, T, T, Tigeri CALWALADER, V/ICTZRSI-iyi St IAJT M. I, Ruddock AS3IST0S TEXTILE HiSTITuTE H. C, Shaw KEAS3ET it KATTISOH CO, C, R, RL., Frederick Lans A. 2, 'Mtfield D, V/, Widmayer RAIBESTCS-rLAKKATTAK, 'C. J, A, Bettes J, A, Broun M, V/, Oliver R. 3, Smith Guests: ASBESTOS TEXTILE CGIPALT Frank Gatke GARLOdt PACKIriO CGiPANT G, E. Houghton D 03788 1 , The nesting was called to order by President Waken and an address of welcome extended to all of the members present. Recognition and welcome was also c.:tended to representatives of two former r.amber companies who attended the meeting of the Air Hygiene Committee held llarch 7 and were also in attendance at this meeting, namely. Hr. G. E. Houghton, Garlock Packing Company, end Mr, Frank Gatke, Asbestos Textile Company 2, The iiinutes of the last meeting of the Institute were presented for reading, however, since all members had received copies of these minutes and were familiar with the actions there taken, it was moved by J, A. Bettes, seconded by D. R. Holmes and unanimously agreed that the reading of the minutes be omitted at this time* 3 The Treasurer's report was read by the Secretary in the absence of J. G, Scho?pf, Treasurer. Following a discussion of the contents of this report, it was moved by D, W, Widmayer, seconded by J, A, Bettes and unanimously agreed that the report be accepted. > 4 iUA -- c-T *thc I n s t i t u t s 'r? I'.ailLag, :::j:\r.; ;era b :ir." r.zii by tho President ar.d Secretary, As soon as the 'crsMJryns^fv ascertain the number of numbers who vdli attend this this "inform,atiiiiT^irt11 be turned over to President l.'aken :;ho will In turn er.doa^W^o <carry the plans forward vdth some assistance of the traffic de- cartsant at Johns-iianvi11s Corn, h;--''lidd or. the cay preceding the General nesting in i.sw i.*~< on che day pre cceediirn.gg the Tihnetfiora msestings., Tmhee results ofr any actions taken at the cor.rdtteo r.eetings will be reported at the Hvetford meetings by the Chairman of th9 respective cocidttees. c 0 0 03789 6. ThCeornrietxtteer,eporThtewacsonpsriedseernatteidonbsyoDf.tRh.isHoclommemsi,ttCeheaiirnmasnesosfiotnhoenAiMarrHcyhgi^enwaare fully discussed and the specific actions there taken were noted. The ccrr.ente of Dr. Smith, Johns-llanville Corp., related to the report issued by Dr. Uuaper on a subject relating esbastosis vdth lung and heart diseases was discussed at great length. This latter natter earlier received attention by the Board of Governors and it was announced that this body had appropriated sufficient funds to initiate a preliminary survey to investigate the possibility of more concerted action designed to refute the work of Dr. Kueper. The full report for this coroittee is attached as a part of the Ednute3 of this meeting. 7* Tho Sales Promotion Comittee report was presented by J. T, Griffis, Chairman* It was reported that this committee has been actively engaged in efforts de signed to promote the dissemination of information designed to enlighten and educate the consumer of asbestos textile products regarding their uaio.ue characteristics and applications. The placement of Visual Aid Displays and plans for the development of the new asbestos textile exhibit ware fully discussed. V In an effort to speed up the development of the r.ew exhibit it v:as agreed that a part of the necessary'funds for its construction should be made availabl at this tine. It was moved by D, U. Widmayer, seconded by D. P.. Holmes and unanimously agreed that a sun of blvOOO.OO be transferred from the General Fur.d Ihc Institute to the Publicity Fund for this work. It was further agreed '.\i; there should be a refund of ./uCCO.CQ frcr. tho Publicity Fund to the ! .:eral Fur.i upon, oon.nletior. of r.ocesoiiy ?.3ceson.-;nis required to cover thio project, Th9 full report covering the activities of this co'r.ittae is attached as a part of the iinutes of this nesting, The full report, as presented, is attached as a part of the Hir.utss of this resting, 9 The Fellowship Report was presented b7 Dr, Shaw and is attached as part of the limites of this meeting, iiuch interest is presently being evidenced in the elevated temperature serviceability characteristics of asbestos textiles and the necessity for a standard test method is becoming ever r.ors apoarsnt. The Fellowship report includes work along these lines and a new technique lcno'.m as dynamic testing has been here introduced for consideration. It is felt that this new approach in elevated temperature studies will provide further significant information. 10, During the course of the meeting, hr, D, W, Uicfaayer announced that Hr. C, R, Frederick was being transferred fren the textile, division of Xeasbay t Hattison Company to another division of that company and that r. R, L. Lanz would hereafter represent that Company on the Teciinical Comittee, depressions of gratitudes were extended to fir, Frederick by President Waken, iir. Oliver and Dr, Shaw.for the continued interest and many contributions he has made during his long and active participation as a member of the Institute, a period extending from the date of founding of the Institute in 19U6. 11, There being no further business to ccme before this meeting it was moved by D. W. Widmayer, seconded by R, S. Kulse and unanimously agreed that the meeting be adjourned, liyril C, Shaw, Secretary f D 03790 O i Larch S j 1956 Dca." *.:r. Schoepf: T ^ if.sj*'c2 f.n.wh 4cur recu23t, a: ration '.res v.iada -lia : ^ : o 3 T i i ' . t i i Institute under Dr, i:, C, Shaw's 2, 1?56, The audit cavers the period fro* December 3, inclusive. e bocks ar.d. recards vlsicn cn Pricey,, il to ilarch 2, 1956 The 2alar.ce Sheet of the Asbestos Textile Institute at liarch 2, 1956 is set fo th belo:.*: AS ii;s Total Cash in Baric (Schedule A) Total Cash on Hand: Postage on Hand * Furniture i Equipment (nonincl value) ^ 16,033.11 90.33 2 ,i;0 l.CQ ~16.127.li: L1A3HI>TIZS Social Security L Withholding Taxes Hew Worth 0 27.25 16,099,59 0 ~&27.Ui * Other Asset items not included in above classification are shown in Schedule 3, The latest statement received from the depository (Chase-Hanhattan Ban!: of Hew York) in which all funds of the Institute are kept, show's a balance of N13,U5U05 on January 31, 1956, The Petty Cash Fund totalling .,100,C0 includes 090,33 in each and *9.67 in vouchers. This fund was verified by actual count. Schedule A*, Showing a reconciliation of the 3ar!c 3alancs at March 2, 1955: Baric Balance per latest Statement. January 31, 1956 Add: Bank Deposit of February 1956 Less: Checks Drawn Subsequent to 0 13,U5b.C6 S,na.9i * 18.595.97 Check Ho. Date Payee Amount lCO 1/30/56 l/ilkra Company $ 1,175.00 1C2 1/30/56 A.S.T.M. 5.00 1C53 2/1/56 H. ii. Laurence U.70 iocU 2/2/56 Petty Cash 85.58 1C65 2/2/56 J. J. Cogan 9.00 ( 1C56 2/10/56 Philadelphia Textile Institute 15.U3 1C67 2/18/56 A. K Thomas Company 17.19 1C53 2/29/56 li. C. Shaw C96.CO 10 6 ? 3A/56 Pennsylvania Company 199.36 1070 3/1/56 K. C. Shaw 22.58 1071 3/1/56 Petty Cash 88.07 D 03791 H^.-ks nuraercd 102? to I0li3 inclusive, v.'hich ware cuts tiding t the las'; audit ^.;'/cSrjlcL.1c:.:9?1~ar.nedd and found to be in order. 3ank .rars credited to General Fund, deposits during this period totalled \ reir.burser.cnt transfer in the ancunt of .9305.53 w*s na.de iron the General Fund to the Petty Cash Fund, Schedule B: Other Assets of Asbestos Textile Institute5 T i;-- (a) (b) (c) (d) <> (f) (g) (h) (i) (3) 0c) (M1) (n) Quentii*.* *O u . .,T3w.'.vU AccfjZd. Purchase C 7 Visual Aid Display Cases January 1950 3,1014.32 1 Suter Tensile Tester August 19U7 726.CO 1 Keat Aging Furnace April l?5l 19.93 1 Bausch it Lena Triple Puroose Micro-Projector Way 1 95k 9'u.CO 1 Braoender Moisture Tester September 19Su 7S.CC 1 Federal Thickness Gage January 19U7 50,50 1 Iiapes Magnetic Analyser 1 Scott Twist Tester 1 Abradoflesc ADperciemlb1e9r5T3 9 U.,T ^ ICO.CO 126.50 Decer.oer 19h7 50O.C0 hOffice 1 1 ' 1 1 1 2 5 1 1 1 1 Furniture it Equipment Steel Work Benches Steel Flat Top Desk Steel Table Swivel Chair Straight Chair U Drawer Steel Legal File Steel Storage Cabinets Steel Book Case Units Wall Costumar Waste Tesico Basket rtuffleover L Control Cenco Balance Septender 195U n n h n n n n tt it * it n II n n it it it October 195U October 19SU 757.50 161.00 32.25 1 Electric Stopclock October 19SU 5o.ee 1 Aoradoflex January 1956 1,175.CO TOTAL 8jeC2.Co Tours very truly, S, C, Getean, Auditor D 03792 AS / ) ' j i H t . ii* XI,'^j ^ ^ ; Treasurer's Report .-.rch 2, 1955 ( balance in Various Funds - December 2, 1955: relic:;ship Fund Cer.er"! Fund Petty Cash Fur.d ?at:v -Zr.z'r. I:A:: Fund Receipts; 0 9,260,27 5,69!i.36 3,17 58.50 V* I5,0l5.c Assessments: Fellowship Fund General' Fund Transfers; To Petty Cash (From General Fund) Disbursements: 0 U.112.16 2,999.75 7,111.91 r* 0 305.53 V 305.53 1* V 22.LU.0U Fello:.'shio Fund: Fellowship Salary Laboratory rbrpense Amer. Soc, Test. Hat, 0 2,377.81 17.19 26,C O , ;) 2 ,1 2 1 .0 0 General Fund: Secretary's Salary Secretary's Travel Stenographic Expense Meeting Exoensa Legal Expense Auditing Expense Visual Aid Zxcensa Abradoflax Expanse Petty Cash Transfers liisc. Office Expense 3 76U.55 15.62 116.00 59U.66 507.87 3.00 22.16 1,175.00 305.53 107.71 0 3,6U2.13 Petty Cash Fund: Mise. Office Expense Laboratory Assistance Balance on Hand - March 2, 1956 j 35.17 192.00 0 277.17 0 6.3L0.30 } 16,123.71 Balance in Various Funds - March 2, 1956: Fellowship Fund General Fund Petty Cash Fund 0 10, 981.1:3 5,05193 ____ 90*33 0 16,123.71 D 03793 Respectfully submitted e x h ib it a-i-v* ' . thj Ito-tin3 of tha vri c." -2;ri;ovs of th-: Avie I.titiroi-.: hoi:? Kirch 7 , .VrrO in Philo dslphU, ?n. HoTCS tTEiiio-Z CCS?, J, ScahlTi a 1 * i fi 1Wcs*J-VwCV*'<;w<1i--1--M.*HPZrsoCiCAd?a,nh 9 4 zirsssxs-iiUfxiTXis, u>c. j* A. So tViO m-i-imi wifc?Acrj?Jiffl ca, j, a , Esinas snr: <:. hurrsc:! co, ,. S.-Yfeitfiald SOUTHZSIi ASB2ST2S CO, 2, 5, Eulas * * *, ^ * cikjijisz?., yidinss; i titt 2$, I, r.uddodc AS32STC3 nXiTLS SaHTUTS H, C 4 Sraw D 03794 Tr.s first 325r.r.t a * 'the nostir.2 vos davsied to the prssinhaiion cf conniit:rco vs* ------ - m ------------ * * ---- -- ' -- " ' ^ " * - \ rvi-or: into zr.o anrirors'eatou. cavjsss of Cooici-r t? the !vn:,3 iiiich of th?. lifsmsiio2 sot forth in this r;p?.-t io 'fsrhAr.iiatod aad is in v-cinno M* M t^V W ^ - y * --. - -^* --*-** M /W 4V 4 Miww w no lion involvi-^ 20erito 210 aitd its rolstionohip to b>i:c*t diaooo cr/i lur.g 2 .2c-120;-nilad tho.1 th ir.'jiitui.nitiata .1 tmti 1 IK A - r o o - . ilt c f w'.siO i *> " ''1 :- > - '. . I '. o -.'j j i t 0. 5. r v i j 2:0r o d ' i h.i t il; s 'e y D * ?.. I To'--:-; t , I r . i 1t r i o ! A i r c y ; i c: ..*.,-- v *V croro I), 1'., 31.V.23 =v>;_ -t-'d the repo::. for tha Air K- `era Co.raittoi, praasr.tir.: h e j c '.~cj t.i.cr.u ir>''! - v'~ - *'.1 cou. .* of che ccmit'tae : ..'tin, >. ild earlier en thiu da's, V-':.* ..'ill - jvo.-c e.r.e.-;.-$ th.as nttuch-vd r.s a piurt oi tha rinu i:: c.f ib Curaral :.sting. b) 'li Salea Prcnotic:; Cc_-riit.i report :r-.w pr:';.vhev1 37 J, ?. Griiia^ Cb sircan ai that Ccmi'ctee, The r.e.-tirv; til.' ccrvriti-au hold a*rlijr ca tila ata vaa devoted to liacuj Lerus relsicd to .1 variety c subjects cc.v c:m;<! :rith advancing attention and interest in hu producto o the o.areatos tar.tila irhurtry., Action vea t:i;er. directing tha pamar. nt pscesete o a Visual Aid Display at Lev all Textil2 I_-.3titu.ti aod a t-asperatery ploranart' r.t ;20??.chu3ctto Inalitaty o Techmlcry, Usa, ploro w^r\ urther advanced aor the corotructioo o the r.ev -jijuloy vhien has b?:n under cem i oration by th3 lo.otitula or the post ymr,. ... .. . " .. The cenritee oloo essaiderad ths report presented by Dr. Sha* related te. corta that were ciada curios tho poot canthu to criaaver to arrest tha rvork-etir.g o certain ironing board carura, tas r.rlaa o which ora orocota through Shav or urihnr consideratio*n, Thu Technical Comittea, thrcush ito Caairnan, ir. li, W. Olivar, sought the aaaiutmco o tha Salas Prenotion Conorittoo ir its endeavor to establish a standard heat a^Lng tost for asbestos textiles, in light o related wort being conducted by the PoIIovj it vas agreed that) action in this regard 3houli be deierred until tha relievehip investigations can provide a basis ior 3 = 2 r.ore dofinite concluaions. Tha fltli report covarirg the activities of ths Solus Prenotion Cmr.vittai is attached as 2 part of the iinuteo o tha Genere! Mating, c) Tha Tsshnicai Cocorittai report */zs presentid by it. Vf, Glirer, Ch.sirr.m ci that Cenriitau* Tha v;orl; of the u-.rvrnl tao'c groups aoaigned probli-.o related to cloth, braid and taps vjro diucr'.oa*d aril ths rurulto o thosg endeavors out orth. The cespate report covering tha setiviMes o this errmitti to attached 00 a part o ths lliinxtas o ths C-ansrol seating, Follavir.g the co:*nlttas reparte, ths rc;ul:_- agenda ior tha carting v ?uj urdortrhan, The iirat subject introduced vos ths Truos'or.-.r'a Koport and oHov'in?. 3. r.iocuosisn a : ths natters hero presentid it woo svov-d by , E. /hitiisldj .^uended by A. Hettsa rnd urianin-usly ogrard that the report be rscanr.ended for apprsval ot ths Gsr.arnl rc'iticg, Tha President announced tint tha r.i-uit Gsnerrl m e t i n g of the Institute vculd bu held at Th.ei'crd lineo, Csr.cda, m Jens C rnd 7, l93o, 1 diacorsian fol- lo-.-cd concerning this nesting nnd it v3 i-.prcrd that ilia Secretary should direct a cueotionnairs to each r.u-.b-r o thj Sovnd ei Go-rsmoro ia an eort to nocertain hov inar.y r.r-noers -o the Inc live >.e vculd attend this ceetir.g rculov.-i-.g tl'-j occuruacin o ir.io~a.iticn, it is to be t-irned over to the :'.*3iisnt >t .o :.ili ciuieavor to unt:bl'_:..'i the proper v.eating ivcilitiu3 dr. th.o Thsciord area nrd travel :i-cc.va-cdctaonJ .Car th group. 0 03795 ? ^ / / (AJ O o d (picJt >dr (p (o 3 / U L ---- - b i t s r t . ( t* * u c A u r m ^ ) r JZ * yy ----- r ^ - <" / L Pli i , ' 7 /> z \ p*1 fr- -- 4 7 ?75 ILl~h crr\ ~htr\u+*P ^ J i *7^*06. & J U - r . A - J ^ ' P M`- J U ~ n ----- ------ ---/ J\ iA t - (ih^ t ' J L /J a r 4 Z ^LtLo^y" fO(X '-P*-- ^ P\ ipJL*~J , -------7C7T ' fP***7- A p4 p* ------- PSa , /JL^ji/S' JJJ&' a Z i J / - C a J L u 'ril^ , v * r,2 ^ ------ f--M.- ------ jamli-! Q - r ^ S^? ^ _ / 9V sULff*\J - ^ 7 f h ------ fp t C1 VpLl -/ X- 5 /? ^ fe, -- <y<y <ytf < c ^jg-> * ' > * P & ? r fjs&r. ~T~*. \ y ir r f t Z 'J l /5 7s / .JUL /; > Y l ^ T Al^c^ - y / - ^ -----------------------------------D 03?9 ______________________ n< (a_________ J Z Z lZ \ ____ ______ _________ g^ZZZL,-- 7 ------ -- rf H J ,o ^^Ct~ V fm Q JhrrfO^ ------- f j p *1 J . ' f ____, . - ^ r**- - - 'm- / ; r t\ -^ ^ z z a J v S T c L j ' , - - ______________ jQS J 7^ he. y ~ u*z- 7 ------ --r---------------- fpr ? i> ^ ' (7 ------ f/)9U pRl *9i ------ y ~ P yii >,o4 ir / i . J/<* Jl a TvnataJ ? i l Z Z ^ -t .^ZZ; ' f-- *7***' - n ~ z& ............. . y*ia<1" ^ 7 pt 7 - S J + , -A. l u u -----------------J/t )l79f V g ^ 1 D 03797 ---- RECEIV ED GARLOC JUL 8 988 LAW DEPAR - RW.W 4 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR THE THIRD JUDICIAL CIRCUIT MADISON COUNTY, ILLINOIS 5 IN RE: ASBESTOS LITIGATION 6 CASES FILED BY BARON & BUDD Plaintiffs, 3 --VS" 9 A. P. GREEN, ET AL., 0 Defendants. 11 Deposition of G. ELLWOQD HOUGHTON held at the 12 Sheraton Hotel, 125 North Main Street, Newark, New York on the 9th day of June, 198S. 13 14 APPEARANCES: 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BARON 6 BUDD, ESQS. Attorneys for Plaintiffs BY: FREDERICK M. BARON, ESQ. and LISA A. BLUB, Ph.D., ESQ. 8333 Douglas Avenue Dallas, Texas 75225 BROWN, JAMES & RABBITT, ESQS. Attorneys for Defendant Crane Company BY: A. J. BRONSKY, ESQ., 705 Olive Suite 1100 St. Louis, Missouri 63101 P a c k in g CHURCHILL 6 MC DONNELL, ESQS. Attorneys for Defendant Combustion Engineering Incorporated BY: BENJAMIN N. HEWITT, ESQ., 525 West Main Street Suite 125 Belleville, Illinois 62220 TIRO REPORTING SERVICE D 03798 1 2 3 4 5 ; ; 7 s 9 , 10 " ! 13 13 " 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 A M O PRESENT: 23 24 REPORTED BY: 25 GOLDFEIN & JOSEPH, ESQS. Attorneys Cor Defendant Garlock Incorporated BY: BERNARD L. LEVINTHAL, ESQ. Packard Building, 17th Floor 15th A Chestnut Streets Philadelphia, PA 19102 GUNDLACH, LEE, BGGMANN, BOYLE & ROESSLBR, BSQS. Attorneys for Defendant 3M BY: RICHARD E. BOYLE, ESQ. 4000 West Main Street Box 692 Belleville, Illinois 62222 HEYL, ROYSTER, VOBLKER & ALLEN, ESQS. Attorneys for Defendant Wellington BY: BARRY 8 . NOBLTNER, ESQ., and ROBERT H. SHULTZ, JR., ESQ. 17 Ginger Creek Meadows Bdwardsville, Illinois 62025 REED, ARMSTRONG, GORMAN AND COFFEY, BSQS. Attorneys for Defendant Harbiaon~Walker Refractory Co. BY: STEVEN M. AROBSTY, ESQ. 507 National Bank Building P.O. Box 467 Bdwardsville, Illinois 62025 SKELTON, TAINTOR A ABBOTT, ESQS. Attorneys for Defendant H. K. Porter, Incorporated BY: CHARLES H. ABBOTT, ESQ. 95 Main Street P.O. Box 3200 Auburn, Maine 04210 HELEN M. ZORNOW G. Ellwood Houghton's nurse SUSAN M. AMDOLINO TIRO REPORTING SERVICE D 0379? 1 1 2 3 INDEX 4 5 Witness G. Ellwood Houghton 6 by Mr. Baron 7 by Mr. Levinthal i Page Number 3-30 30-34 3 9 EXHIBITS 10 11 Exhibit wtMihar Page Nuaber 12 Plaintiff's Exhibit 1 13 13 Defendant's Exhibit 1 35 14 15 1C 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 TIRO REPORTING SERVICE 0 03SOO 1 DBPOSITION- 2 2 MR. BARON: The stipulations 3 that I understand that we are entering 4 into is all objections except as to 5 fora are reserved; 6 i And that further the 7 deposition is being noticed for a evidentiary purposes and cases in which 9 the notices have already gone out. 10 There are cases pending in 11 several jurisdictions, as I understand 12 it. 13 : MR. LBVXMTHAL: That's 14 likewise ay understanding of the 15 stipulations. 16 I would ask that the record 17 reflect that also present is Helen 18 Zornow, who is Mr. Houghton's nurse, 19 who is present with hin. 20 MR. SHULTZ: Let ae say as 21 far as ay involveaent hare on behalf of 22 Wellington, who have been naaed the 23 Greco lead case in Madison County, it's 24 ay understanding that's the only case 25 that has been noticed. I don't have TXRO RIPORTING SBRVICI D 03801 1 DBPOSITION- 3 2 the list of ths defendants with me, but 3 that's who appears here. 4 MR. BARON: It's all of the 5 cases in Madison County -- 6 MR. SCHULTZ: Then we have a 7 difference of opinion. It's in the 3 notice, in the Greco case and that's ay 9 understanding as to how the case is, 10 which is- under those-- as to those 11 defendants who have been noticed in 12 your group of cases, the Greco 13 file. 14 15 16 17 G. B L L W O O D H O U G H T O N , called herein as a 18 witness, being duly sworn, testified as follows: 19 rr h r - 20 Q. Mr. Houghton, ay nano is Fred Baron. Could you hear 21 me okay, sir? 22 A*- - Very well. 23 Q. If I an talking too loudly or too softly let ne 24 know; all right, sir? 25 A. I will do that. TIRO R8PORTIMO SBRVICI D 03802 1 Q' A. Q. 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 10 A. 11 Q. A. 13 Q14 A. 15 Q. 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 A. 21 ftk 22 23 A. 24 Q. 25 HOUGHTON - BARON 4 Mr. Houghton, first if you would state your nane for the court reporter? G. Bllwood Houghton, H-O-U-G-H-T-O-N. And you pronounce it Houghton rather than Hoeghton? (Phonetic) Yes. Mr. HoughtonT'can"yourellvui your (Sate of birth first, pleese? October 22, 1905. So that nakes you older than ne. I'a 82. Soae say gotiigrSa8S*1 Mr. Houghton, where do you live now? I live in Palnyra. Okay. Mr. Houghton, you have had your deposition taken at least once before, have you not, sir? Yes. So you are generally familiar with the process, you understand what a deposition is? Yes. If I ask you a question that you don't understand, would you be sure to tell ne that? X would. Because I want to be certain that we are coanunicating properly. All right, sir? TIRO REPORTING SERVICE 0 03803 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 A. 5 6 Q. 7 A. 3 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 A* 14 15 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 20 21 22 Q*- 23 24 A. 25 HOUGHTON - BARON 5 Okay. Nr. Houghton, tall no whore you Wint to school? I wont to Philadelphia Toxtilo School -- Philadolphio Textile. I graduetoedrln 1927. What is a toxtilo school? A toxtilo ochoolxaao a speeiefcSiedvmoboolP handling various'phasos<of the manufacturing of Yayson cloth, dying and t b e w e e e e # vertoee typosowlaseaving, like Jacquard, t h at's frenchmans, . All rights After you'finished that schools did you taka a job? I was asked -- interviewed by a man from Johns-Manville, and then throe of us wont from that school to Johns-Manville in 1927. All right. Now, what base was Johns-Manville in that would have involved textiles? They nade cloth and yarns, and they also used the yarns in a braiding departnent for packing. And the cleth was used in various departnents, sheet goods, for gaskets and other forms of packing. Was the cloth nade out of cotton or was it made out of soma other material? Zt was cotton used in it, although the majority was of asbestos. TIRO REPORTING SERVICE D 03804 1 2 Q. 3 HOUGHTON - BARON 6 So Johns-Manville than would weave the asbestos into these various products that you have just described? 4 A. Uh-huh. 5 Q. 6 A. 7 Is that right? Yes. MR. LIVINTHAL: Mr. Houghton, a when he asks you a question, you have 9 to answer verbally so the court 10 reporter can take it down. 11 Q. What was your job with Johns-Manville in the 12 asbestos textile business? J 2 i| 13 ' A. Over the 12 years I was there, I was in the various I departments in the manufacturing and supervision of 15 yarn manufacturers, fabric manufacturers and also in 16 17 Q. 18 19 A. the making of safety clothing. Here all these things made out of asbestos fibers, primarily? Ho. They were blendsd with other products like 20 21 Q* rubber. But did all of the products that you have discussed 22 contain asbestos fibers as part of their 23 components? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Did you becone familiar then with the process by TIRO REPORTING SHRVIC* D 03805 1 HOUGHTON - BARON 7 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 which asbestos was woven into thesa goods? What was your irst part of that? Did you bacoma familiar with tha way tha process worked to weave asbestos into these- goods? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Now, in 1939, did you leave Johns-Manville? 8 A. 9 Q. In 193*, X ve&fc <faenGarAoetor4to*rlUifrG*'-K. And where was- Garlock located? 10 A. In Palmyra*-Ne*Yerfc!>~.... 11 Q. tfhat- job did you take with Garlock? 12 A. 13 Q. 14 15 16 A. 17 18 19 Q. Superintendent of the Aabeatos Textile Department. Was that generally the same type-of department that you worked at Johns-Nanvilie? Was it the same type of business? Yes. Johns-Manville had -- Johns-Manville was made up of about 12 different departments, but one of them was Asbestos Textile Manufacturing. Wall, when you went to work for Garlock in the 20 Asbestos Department as a superintendent, what was 21 your job? What did you actually have to do? 22 hm ' X wam. hired to learn the various phases of asbestos 23 textile production. At the moment that I was hired, 24 I was -- probably most of my time was with weaving. 25 Q. Now, at that period of time in 1939, were you aware TIRO RIPORTINO SERVICI o 0 3806 1 3 4 5 6 ! A. 7 Q. 8 9 A. 10 11 12 Q. 13 ' 14 15 16 17 18 Q. 19 A. 20 21 22 23 0 . 24 25 HOUGHTON - BARON 8 that thara were cartain things that you had to do to protect workers against breathing dust on the job? MR. LKVINTHAL: Objection to the fora. You can answer the question. Where dustjwus hlohtiateasityr aasks were required. How did you know that aasks had to be used? Was that soaething that was coaaon in the industry? I guess the only thing would be the judgaent of the aanageaent; if it was a dusty position, they would require wearing a aask. Okay. Now, was there a standard or a requireaent for how auch dust could be in the air around that tine? MR. SHULTZ: Clarify. Could you clarify, please, what tine you are talking about? I an talking about 1939. There was.a federal H a l t for whet various companies would try to stay within, and that was 9 Billion particles per cubic foot. That's depending on how you arrive at that figure. Okayv -Aad ia order to deteralae whether you were in the figure or out of the figure, did you have to do dust counting froa tiae to tiae? TIRO RIPORTINO S1RVICS D 0380? 1 2 A. 3 4 5 Q. 6 7 A. HOUGHTON - BARON 9 The insurance companies aant people to take specimens, samples on different parts of the factory. Was the dust that they were counting primarily asbestos dust? Well, when you take dust, like it would include any 3 dust you might make from your cotton, too. 9 Q. 10 Well, was the standard that you are referring to generally called the asbestos standard for dust in 11 the air? 12 A. 13 14 Q. 15 16 17 Well, X guess manufacturing asbestos, you would classify as asbestos dust. Would it be fair to say that it. was known by 1939 when you went to work for Oarlock, that if a worker breathed too much asbestos dust that he had a good chance of getting ill? 18 MR. LKVINTHAL: Objection. 19 MR. SHULTZ: Objection. 20 Leading. 21 h* . Xt was not a subject that we had brought up to us to 22 discuss. 23 Q. 24 A. 25 Well, do you know why there was a standard? It was not explained to us why asbestos was a harmful drug. TIRO RIPORTXNG SIRVXCK D 3S08 1 Q- 5 A. 6 7 8 9 Q* 10 A. 11 Q. 12 A. 13 ;| q . 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q. 25 HOUGHTON - BARON 10 Do you know why people had ..to waar raaplratora? MR. LKVXNTHAL: Objection to tha fora. Wall, you find a aan in any industry or even on the farm, if it's dusty, you ara annoyed by tha dust, so you protact against it, but.tha physiological discussions_wart_not analysed-by us. .. How long,did -yeustay working .for ^Garlack? I workad with.thaa.-for about --about ,40 yaars. And during tha 40-yess-period, did your job change? Oh, yes~~ How long, did .you stay an .superintendent in tha asbestos textile area? About 21 years. That would have than bean up until 1960? Yea. Now, during tha period of time that you worked in tha asbestos textile area, did you participate in this work to help ventilate tha area? Yea. My job in being auperintendent was, I was also the engineer designing sines to improve dust conditions. Did you remain in that position all the way up to 1960? TIRO R1PORTING SKRVXCI 0 03809 1 2 A. 3 4 Q. 5 6 7 8 9 10 Q. 11 12 13 A. 14 15 Q. 16 17 18 A. 19 Q. 20 21 A. 22 23 24 25 0* Yes. HOUGHTON - BAILON 11 Also in ths rsst of ay employment there, I was a consultant. Mas there reference aaterials that you could look at to help you understand how to control dust where asbestos was being used? MR. LRVTNTHAL: Objection. Do you want to clarify at what point in time? <1 Proa the beginning-of your employment at Garlock in 1939, were there reference1 materials that you could look at to determine how to control asbestos dust? No. It was left to us= to determine the best means to control dust. Okay. Now, I think you were talking about earlier threshold limit values, were you not, TLV's, the federal standard you were talking about? Yes. When did you become aware that there was a TLV for asbestos dust? X would -- X would not be able to give you any date, bet the general work of supervision, you know you are trying to make it a better working condition for ths operator. And were you also trying to be sure that the TIRO REPORTING SERVICE 0 03810 A. Q. A. 8 Q. 9 A. 10 Q. 11 A. 12 Q. 13 il A. 14 15 16 17 18 Q. 19 20 21 22 9F* 23 24 A. 25 HOUGHTON - BARON 12 operator would not got sick from an asboatos dlsoaao? That was not brought up as a subject. Hell, you were a participant in something called the Asbestos Textile^ Institute, were you not? I was the representative froa Garlock. When did you becone ther-reparesantetive~from Garlock? I think it was probably about 1945. And what*was~ ths-Asbestee Textile Instituted Where was it? What was it? The Asbestos Textile* Institutes'-,wasrenr organization composed of all the asbeetos textiles manufacturers and the miners in Canada, and there were some miners in the United States. There may have been some representatives of South Africa. And what was the purpose of the Asbestos Textile Institute? The najor purpose was in finding better ways for merchandising the product. Did they also get involved in other issues such as health issues? Yes. There would be some discussions of health. MR. BARON: Let me have you TIRO R1PORTING SERVICI D 03811 1 2 3 4 5 Q* 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 A . 14 Q. 15 16 A. 17 18 Q. 19 20 21 A. 22 23 Q. 24 A. 25 HOUGHTON - BARON 13 aark this docuaant as px 1 . (Hheraupon Plaintiff's Exhibit 1 was narked for identification.) Sir, I have in front of me a three page document that we have had narked by the court reporter as Plaintiff's Exhibit number 1. It is the minutes of a nesting of the Asbestos Textile Institute held on March the Bbht- 1P56 in`-Philadelphia^-Pennsylvania. It shews in-attendance that there was a C. B. Houghtonpresent froa Garlock Packing Company. Was that you? Tes. Probably. Do you remember being at a meeting at the Asbestos Textile Institute on March 8 , 1956? As for the date, I wouldn't be able to claim, but I was sent to these various meetings, yes. All right. Mow, when you would attend a meeting, afterwards, would you generally receive some written minutes of the meeting? Minutes would be issued to the various members and they would be mailed to the company. Did you read the minutes from time to time? Most of the minutes would be mailed and copied to me. TIRO REPORTING SERVICE D 038U 1 HOUGHTON - BARON 14 2 Q. 3 4 A. 5 Q. Okay. Did they generally, accurately reflect what went on during the Meeting? Yea. We had-a good secretary. Now, at this particular meeting, the president of 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 A. 10 Q. 11 the group was an F.- J. Waken from Johns-Manville? Yes. Did you knew*!?- Yes. ?*He'pronounced it Wecom. (Phonetic) In the 'minutes that I hare in Front -of-me, which is PX number '>*, firetof all,- X will ask*you t You have 12 been shown 'those minute`bef ore ,-havs you not? 13 A. Probably 14 MR. LKVINTHAL: I think the 15 record should reflect on the front page 16 of PX 1 where it indicates that Mr. G. 17 I. Houghton of Garlock Packing Company 18 4 19 was in attendance, ha was there with a Mr. Frank Gatke froai the Asbestos 20 Textile Company. 21 I think that the record should 22 reflect what this indicates is that 23 these two men were also in attendance 24 as "representatives of two former 25 member companies." TIRO RIPORTINO SERVICI D 03813 1 2 Q. 3 4 5 6 7 A. 8 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 A. 15 Q. 16 A. 17 18 19 20 Q. 21 22 O N 23 24 A. 25 HOUGHTON - BARON 15 Mr. Houghton, in tho minutes of tho moating undor paragraph 9 it stataa as follows: "Tho Fallowship Roport was prasanted by Dr. Shaw and is attachad as part of tha minutas of this masting." Who was Dr. Shaw? Dr. Shaw was an anginaar who did assignments -- research assignments at various projects. Ha would be assigned different projects over the years, and he would report back to the organization. All right. In paragraph*'6 it states: "The next report was presented by D. R. Holmes, Chairman of the Air Hygiene Committee." Who was he? I can't recall exactly what his job was. What was the Air Hygiene Committee? It would be associated with both the Federal requirements and the conditions throughout the industry. They would be associated with any -- with the insurance companies who studied dust conditions. Did yow ever serve on the Air Hygiene Committee? No* Did Oarlock ever have a representative on the Air Hygiene Committee? Not as such. The Asbestos Institute was mainly concerned with sales. TIRO REPORTING SSRVICH D 03814 HOUGHTON - BARON 16 I as going to road jou a portion of this paragraph to soo if it refreshos your recollection, sir. MR. SHULTZ. I a going to objoct to tho fora of that question, because I don't think he testified to a lack of recollection that needs to be refreshed. Do you remember anything that happened at that nesting on March the 8th. of 1956? . My aeaory wouldn't.give .you,very.such information. All right. ~ Let. me itry..to refresh your recollection by reading from this paragraph. It talks about the report of the Air Hygiene Committee and it states: "The comments of Or. Smith of Johns-Manville Corporation related to the report issued by Dr. Hooper on a subject relating asbestosis with lung and heart diseases was discussed at great length." Did you know at that time what the disease asbestosis was in 1956? What did you understand asbestosis was in 1956? Asbestosis was usually the result of a person being exposed to asbestos for msy be years of working. And tho best Z could understand was that your lungs TIRO REPORTING SERVICE 0 03815 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 3 Q. 9 10 A. 11 12 13 14 Q. 15 16 17 18 19 20 A. 21 22 A* 23 24 Q. 25 HOUGHTON - BARON 17 ara aquippad to work with dmfc. All of ua ara in duat anyway. So, thara la a waahlng naana in your lunga, bat aonatinaa if you ara working with a too concantratad duat; It ovarloada that lung from it's claariag and waahlng out itwalf and aona of tha duat will ranain in tha lung. Whan did you firat laa ra aboirt-thw diaaaaa aabaatoaia? * ir- r Wall, whan ia kind-of-odd to giro you a data, but I think ooar -yaara of axparianca, you bacoaa awara of aoaa of thaaa t i r n . -- g # rethink*tb#g p r o b a M y in tha 1940'a, r w ar awara-l o t 'what aabaatoaia waa. Okay. Now, thia paragraph diacuaaaa tha raport by Dr. luapar that ralatad aabaatoaia with lung and haart diaaaaaa. Do you racall axactly what ha waa talking about? MR. ABBOTT: I objact. I don't think it'a aatabliah -- Lung and haart diaaaaaa? Taa. No. I don't think I could giva you any conmanta on that. Okay. Wara you awara at that tina that aabaatoa had alao baan linkad to cancar of tha lunga? TIRO RIPORTXMO SIRVXCB 0 03816 1 HOUGHTON ~ BARON 18 2 MR. ABBOTT: Objection. 3 Leading. A. I don't recall tying in cancer with aabestos. I did 6 7 8 9 Q. 10 understand that asbastosiswas a blanking out of the effectiveness of your lunge;< ycu-becoae les and less able-to gat resultiva breathing, sore of blanking out. N o w , M r . Houghton, ware you t h e parson who was in charge of safety at Garlock? 11 A. 12 Q . Va X.- the parson who--Vara you in charge of safety* and* health etc Garlock? 13 i A. Not as such. No had a safety departaent, but ay job I 14 was handling aanufacturing. If we had a condition 15 where the dust was nore than the federal governaent, 16 we would do -- work to inprove the other naans of 17 picking up the dust to renove it froa the air. 5 18 Q. All right. Now, this Inhibit nuaber 1 that we have 19 had aarked, I will have you look at it for a minute. 20 Does this appear to be a true and correct copy of 21 the aiautes? Does this appear what it looks like? 22 MR. SHULTZ: Are you asking if 23 those are true and correct copies that 24 he received or do they just look like 25 other aiautes that he received? TIRO RXBORTZNG S1RVICI D 03817 1 2 Q. 3 4 5 6 7 3 Q. 9 10 A. 11 12 Q. 13 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 19 A. 20 21 S 22 23 24 Q. 25 HOUGHTON - BARON 19 Does that appr to ba a true and correct copy of the ainutes as you would have received thea from the Asbestos Textile Institute? MR. LSVINTHAL: Are you asking hla the ainutes in general or the ainutes of March 8, 1956? Do you have a specific recollection of that docuaent? Specific is not a very <good word for ae. No, I don't think I could give you a good answer. Does"tbisfoaerally appear b0 <*a*the'type of a docuaent that you would receive as ainutes froa the Asbestos Textile Institute? * Tee. Does this look to you to be an accurate copy of the type of ainutes that you would receive froa the Asbestos Textile Institute? Yes. MR. SHULTZ: Objection to the fora. ML. LSVINTHAL: Object to the fora. Do you have any reason to doubt that this is a correct copy of the ainutes of the Asbestos Textile TIRO RHFORTING SERVICI D 03818 1 2 3 4 A. 5 : 6 ! i 7 8 Q. 9 iI 10 11 12 13 ; A. 14 ' 15 I 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 20 21 22 23 0. 24 A. 25 Q. HOUGHTON - BARON 20 Institut? It looks liks MR. SIULTZ: Objection -- MR. SIULTZ: Lot as stats ay objection. I object to the fora as being argumentative and leading. So, as far as you're coacerned, sir, if I understand your testiaony, you have no specific recollection of this particular set of ainutes, but you believe that it looks like the ainutes that you received in the past? That's a Xerox of that. MR. ABBOTT: I object -- MR. LSVXMTHAL: Objection. Noe, you worked at the facility here in New York the whole tine, did you not? Veil, I have had assignments to various factories, but ay aajor job was asbestos textile in Garlock, but l worked in several of the departaeats in Garloek. I have been to Camden, New Jersey one of the plants that makes Teflon and related projects. Do you know a person by the name of Grace Baylord? Clayton Baylord? Graoe Baylord? D 03819 TIRO RIPORTINO SERVICI 1 2 A. 3 4 Q. 5 6 7 3 9 10 Q. 11 12 13 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 19 20 21 22 A. 23 Q. 24 25 A. HOUGHTON - BARON 21 It way have been the name, but I don't remember too well. Do you remember when Grace Baylord filed a workers' compensation claim in 1957 for asbestos dust related diseases at your facility?. MR . LHVINTHAL: Objection. He has just testified that he doesn't recognize the name Grace Baylord. Do you remember that therewere'workers' compensation dai a m r filed--against Garlock for asbestes*'re]reted diseases? MH. LHVINTHAL: Objection to the fora. I think I knew of some instances, yes. Okay. Mow, the last time you gave a deposition, you were asked if you remembered a claim that was filed on Movember 14, 1957 by a women named Grace Baylord, who had been employed in the Textiles Department for about 22 years, and you said yes, you remembered her married name? Tee. Does that now refresh your recollection that you remember Grace Baylord? I know Grace Baylord, yea. 0 03820 TIRO RBPORTING S1RVICI 1 2 Q. 3 A. 4 i Q. 6 7 8 A. 9 10 11 12 A. 13 Q . 14 A. 15 16 17 Q. 18 19 A. 20 21 22 23 A. 24 Q. 25 HOUGHTON - BARON 22 D id a h * w o rk u n d a r y o u r s u p e rv is io n ? Y ss. And w a rs yo u w a rs th a t in 1957 w han aha was w o rk in g u n d a r y o u r s u p a rv is io n sha f ila d a w o rk a rs ' c o n p a n s a tio n c la in f o r a s b a s to s is ? Do yo u re n e n b a r th a t? I th in k -- I c a n 't s ta ta I ra n a n b a r th a t, b u t i t w o u ld b o t e o u r S a fa ty ^ O a p a rta a n t/ a o t t o a a . H a ll, w a r n g a i.m a d e j w w o o f th a fa c t th a t sha was c la ia in g u a w b e e n o s ia t- ................ I t h in k 1 n a y h a w h e a rd ''to h a t-n h e w as- th a o n a . D id yo u in v a s tig a ta th a t a t a ll? I th in k sh a h a d b oo n w o rk in g f o r a a n y y a a rs as a c r a a l o p e ra to r; t h a t 's a c o n n a c tio n w ith a lo o n , and sha was a tw is ta r o p a ra to r. Do y o u know o f a n y o th e r p e o p le who w o rke d a t O a rlo c k t h a t c la im e d a s b a s to s is ? Z c a n 't g iv e y o u a nam e o f a n y o th e r s t h a t c la ia e d A t. - .r B u t wa r e y o n -a w a re t h a t o th e r s d id c l a i n i t f r o n tim e to tin e ? Tan. Has th a t in y o u r a re a o f r e s p o n s ib ility o r was th a t a n o th e r d e p a rtm e n t th a t h a n d le d th o s e c la ia s ? TIRO RBPORTING SBRVICB 0 0382\ 1 2 A. 3 4 5 Q. HOUGHTON - BARON 23 Garlock had a procedure of having all of the workers in the Textile Department sent over to Clifton Springs about every other year for an X-ray. When did that procedure begin? - 6 A. 7 I can- only give you an^ approximate*date.- Probably about 1950. 8 Q. 9 And why did they send then over to Clifton Springs every year for an X*-ray beginning at about 1956? 10 A. Ivery other* year- --s- -- 11 Q. accuse me, every other year. Nhy did they do that? 12 13 14 A. 15 16 17 Q. 18 A. 19 MR. LXVXNTHAL: Object to the fora. To check if there ana any health problems developing in the individuals. They would nova anyone that was a passible question to other departnents. A possible question of what, sir? If they found signs of any lung accumulation, they might take them out and move them to another section 20 of the factory. 21 ft. Long accumulation of what? 22 fe&V Nell, that would be the dust that X have just 23 > mentioned to you. 24 Q. The asbestos dust? 25 A. Yes. TIRO RBPORTXMG SSRVXCI 0 03822 1 2 0. 3 4 A. 5 6i 7 Q. 8 9 10 A. h 12 13 14 o. 15 16 A. 17 o. 18 19 20 A. 21 0* 22 23 A. 24 Q. 25 HOUGHTON - BARON 24 And if they found accumulation of asbestos dust in the lung, they would then do what? They would move thee to another area of the factory, and the usual result was that the person -- the X-rays improved. When you say to another area of the factory, would that have been an area where they were also using asbestos? No. Oarlock was made up of about 12 different departments. Bothers were -- it could be secretarial or it could be another type of manufacturing. All right. Bo was it Oarlock's policy then to try to catch these problems early? Yes. As seem as they found a problem in the lung from asbestos, they would then move the worker out of the asbestos area? T h a t was usually the action, yes. And again let's talk about what time-frame. You believe that was about 1950 when that began? Z think the X-ray was started around 1950. Okay. New, to your knowledge, did Oarlock aver do any dust counting in the areas where their product TIRO RBPORTING SKRVICB D 03823 1 2 3 A. 4 5 Q. 6 7 8 9 A. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 T ' Q. 18 19 A. 20 Q. 21 22 23 Q. 5 J5 HOUGHTON - BARON 25 w u being uaed by purchaaera? I do not know of any uaa of a duat countar in aoaebody that uaaa that product. So, would it ba fair to aay that tha duat counting * only want on in tha Oarlock plant whara tha workers that wara uaing tha product wara? MR. LSVIMTBAL: Objection -- It -- MR. LIVIMTHAL: I hawe an . ;. . ............. 1t a ary - . k objection to the queation. It*a a niacharactarization of hia teatiaony. k I, Ha says he doean't know if it occurred. MR. SMOLTZ: A further objection aa to the fora of tha question. Leading. Oarlock, aa I uaderatand it, would do duat counting ia their plaata froatine to tine; correct? Yea. To your knowledge, did they ewer do duat counting where their product waa being uaed outaide the plant I ! by theircuatoaera? \ Mot that I know of. To your knowledge, did Oarlock ewer place warninga oa their aateriala about the potential hazarda of TIRO RSfORTIMO SBRVICS D 03824 1 A. 5 6 7 8 9 A. 10 11 Q. ' 2 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 A. 17 18 19 20 A. 21 22 23 0. 24 A. 25 HOUGHTON - BAAON 26 ASbeStOS? I think throughout tho industry, probably that there was not that kind of an action. All right. I an not talking about the industry now. I an talking about Oarlock. To your knowledge, did Oarlock awsr.iput^a warning on^ any of its products about tha hazards-of asbestos? Not that I know of Inwaa..nothin, that -- I was in nanufaotiuriagraad..so on, and.not in the sales. Okay. Did you ewer..see*sales brochures concerning the products? No. -- ___ Did you ewer see the products actually being installed by users? Oh, that's kind of a -- I have seen packing installed. I haws installed then syself. When you installed packing, did you ewer wear a respirator? No. No dust was created in handling packing. It's anally either impregnated with rubber or a grease there is no dust. __ Did you ewer neasure the dust? HE. ABBOTT: Objection. T 0 KirOftTXNO s m v i c s D 03825 1 2 A. 3 ^ 4 Q. 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 A. 9 Q. 10 A. 11 Q. HOUGHTON - BARON 27 No. As of the uso of tho product, I M a t u r e d it in our own manufacturing operation. Now, asbestos fibers could be very small, can't they? Tee. Do you know what flee micron'is? TOO. - T h e h u n a n e y e can'teem^firm*microns? can it? No. You mood a microscope. And if dust that has partieias<-of* flee-microns or 12 13 14 A. 15 less is in a roeenrcahPfou samlt with-your naked eye? You could aeo a harm-ifthere was a high percentage of dust im tbe aroa. 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 Q. 20 But mould tbe room appear to bo dusty to somebody looking at fibers lsss than flea microns? Only in tbe aocusnlatiom it night Corn. It terns of tbs air itself though, it would not appear dusty if there were fibers of firm or less 21 ^aierpns; correct? 22 ^ * 23 * 4: MR. LXVXMTHAL: Objection. ML. SHULTZ: Objection. Loading. A. You mould heme to m agnify it. TItO tlfORTIMO SitVICK 0 03826 HOUGHTON - BARON 28 What you're saying, you,couldn't soo it without a nicroscopo? That's right. Now, you nontionsd sarlisr that it was coanon in ths industry about not placing.warnings on packages. Do you raasabar you stated that? MR. ABBOTT: I think that is a nischaracterisation.,, Is that your understanding, of what wan done generally in the industry? MR. ABBOTT.; What time-frame -- I have been away from the sales completely. I was not in that, so Z couldn't give you a comment on what the sales do. Okay. A a t was your basis for saying that it was I > cossoa in the industry not to place warnings on 1 these, products? how did you know that? ML. ABBOTT: Objection. MR. MRJLTX: I don't understand what industry means. Again,.! was net associated with sales at all, so I couldn't give you much help. Veil, why did you make that statement, sir? TZRO R1PORTZNG SSRVICS D 03827 A. Q. Q. A. 14 O 75 $ f 16 ry 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 HOUGHTON - BABON 29 MB. ABBOTT: Objection. Which stateaent? The teteaent where you, said tbt i$ryas coaaon in the industry not .to .place warnings,<?n packages? MB. ABBOTT: Saae objection. I don't know how Z could g i v e b e t t e r nswer than, as far as I know, they didn't put warning signs oa sales products. . Mow, you left 0arj.9j$ain 1970, did you not? Well, I h a d r e t i r e d in *70, but Z kept being called back for about eight er_niag*Bf|ars. They couldn't live without you? Well, they found ay work was soae help. Do you also believe, based on your knowledge of the industry, that at least by the 1 9 8 0 's the industry was aware of the disease asbeatoais? MB. LBVZMTHAL: Objection. MB. ABBOTT: Objection. MB. SHULTZ: Objection to the fora of the guestion -- e is going to aake an objection first. Be is going to be objectionable for a ainute, then you can MB. SHULTZ: Let ae speak. Z TXBO BXPOBTZNO SBBVZCI D 03828 I HO0QHTON - BARON 30 object to tbo fora of the question as leading, and I object to the vagueness of the question, in that there is the generic word of industry use. Okay. Now you can answer the question. Asbestosis has bean known for a good aany years. Asbestosis has normally been the result of several years exposure to dust in the ataosphere. Was that generally what was known by the 1950's in the asbestos industry as you knew it? MR. L1VINTHAL: Objection. MR. SMOLTZ: Sane objection as I stated earlier. It was known, yes. Mr. Houghton, thank you very such. I'n finished with you. I don't know whether these other people have questions or not, but I appreciate your being here. (hereupon there was a brief recess in the proceedings.) IT lit MVaffBMn Mr. Houghton, I aa going to ask you a few questions and follow-up on sons of the things that Mr. Baron asked you. Okay? TIRO RH90RTIH0 SERVICI 0 03829 1 2 A. 3 4 5 6 7 Q. 8 9 A. 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 15 A. 16 17 18 19 20 Q. 21 22 23 A. 24 Q. 25 HOUGHTON - LSVIMTHAL 31 Okay. MR. BARON: Would you nind identifying yourself for the record? MR. LSVINTHAL: Bernard Levinthal. I represent Garlock. Now, Mr. Houghton, an I correct that you were navar actually an officer of Garlock. a corporate officer? I have only had the superintendent office and later ae am engineer, but no. I was not. Okay. Now. Mr. Baron asked you sone questions about what he narked PZ 1. the ninutes of the ATZ neeting of March 8, 1958. You recall hin asking you questions about those ninutes? I don't recall any neeting that was held, because of this -- MR. BARON: I'm going to object. He wasn't responsive to the queetion. I will straighten it out. The first thing I an asking you: You recall Mr. Baron asking you questions about it. right, just a few ninutes ago? Yes. Okay. Now, an Z correct then that what you are saying is you do not recall this particular neeting TZRO RIPORTZMG SKRVZCI 0 03830 1 2 3 4 5 A. 6 7 Q. HOUGHTON - LRVIKTHAL of March 8, 195? MR. BARON: loading. Objaction. Vary Whan ha apaclflaa a data, I don't hava that in ay ind. Okay. Juat to claar tha racord, I will ask It 8 anothar way. Oo you hava any racollaction of tha 9 naating whara Dr. Huapar apoka to tha ATI? 10 MR. BARON: Objaction. 11 That'a a mischaractarization. Dr. 12 uapar didn't apaak. Thay discuss Dr. V 13 14 Q. Nuapar. Do you hava any racollaction of tha naating whara 15 Dr. Buapar's raport was discussad at tha ATI 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 naating? No, not this particular raport. Do you hava any racollaction of avar racaiving tha ninutas of tha naating -- thasa ainutas thare in 20 front of you now? 21 MR. SHULTZ: Plaintiff's 1? 22 PR 1? 23 A. 24 25 Not a spacific raaaabranca. It would go ovar ay dank and I would raad than, but not any particular data is sticking out in ay aind. TIRO RIPORTIMG SIRVICB 0 0393V 1 2 Q. 3 4 A 5 6 7 8 9 Q. 10 11 12 13 14 A. 15 Q. 16 A. 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0. HOUGHTON - LEVINTHAL 33 War* there also at tines ever paopla iron Oarlock who would raprasant Garlock at tha ATI aeetings? Yes. Othars would go, and usually before thay want, thay would coaa over and have a brlaflng, bacausa thay didn't know what aabsatos taxtllas ware. So I was tha ona explaining it to than and thay would go to tha nesting. Now, Mr. Houghton, whan Mr. Baron first showed you these ninutes, I said something for tha record about it saying hare that you ware representing Garlock, which was a fornar nanbar conpany of tha ATI. Do you rananbar ne saying that? That I was a fornar nanbar? That Garlock was a fornar nanbar of the ATI? I think Z do rananbar that Garlock was a nanbar, nora or lass, of tha original forming of tha Asbestos Textile Institute, but it was nainly coaqposed of finding ways for nerchandixing tha product. Garlock was actually nerchandixing it within its own, not as an asbestos product, but as pecking. Be they found that whatever dues thay paid wasn't bringing in vary nuch return, so for a while, they dropped out. Garlock dropped up? TIRO RIPORTINO SIRVIC* 0 03832 OUOHTOH - LBVIHTHAL 34 HR. ABBOTT: Mot responsive. A. They want back in again. Q. Juat to claar up tha record, did thara coma a tiaa when Oarlock dropped out aa a manbar of tha ATI? A. Yaa. MR. LSVINTHAL: further. I hava nothing Doaa anybody hava any questions? (Mo'response) MR. BARON: Thank you vary such. (hereupon thara waa an off-tha-racord discuaaion.) MR. BAROM: Thara ia an agraenont with counaalor that I am going to laava tha original Exhibit 1 with you, but Z aa going to aand you a battar copy to aubatituta for that so that you could attach that to tha depoaition and avaryona agrees with that. MR. SHULTZ: I would ask if tha court reporter could attach the notice of depoaition aa an exhibit or TIRO RBPORTZMO SRRYZCB 0 03833 1 - DEPOSITION - 35 2 court exhibit or my exhibit or whatever 3 to the deposition. In fact, mark it as 4 Defendant's Exhibit 1. 5 (Whereupon Defendant's Exhibit 1 was marked for 6 identification.) 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1S 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 28 T W O REPORTING SERVICE D 03834 C E R T I F I C A T .I O N 1 2 3 I hereby certify that I reported in stnotype shorthand 4 the foregoing proceedings; 5 And that this transcript is a true, accurate and 6 complete record of those stnotype shorthand notes. 7 S 9 10 11 k i / x i n H T ). ( I n c i B i x jb 12 13 C ju / u . 3, W ? 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 > 03835