Document RadKxjZ8qDmO1D78z9RZnbjX7

FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 2 NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA 3 EASTERN DIVISION 4 5 WALTER OWENS, et al., ) 6 Plaintiffs, ) 7 8 vs . CIVIL ACTION NO. 9 CV-P-440-E 1 0 MONSANTO COMPANY, 11 De f endant . 12 1 3 DEPOSITION OF: DON ROBERTSON 14 15 In accordance with Rule 5 (d) of The 16 Alabama Rules of Civil Procedure, as Amended, 1 7 effective May 15, 1988, I, TAMMY JENNINGS 1 8 GREGORY, am hereby delivering to MS. LAURA RUTH 1 9 the original transcript of the oral testimony 2 0 taken on the 3rd day of November, 1999, along 2 1 with exhibits. 2 2 Please be advised that this is the same and 2 3 not retained by the court reporter, nor filed 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 - 8 0 0 - 8 8 8 -DEPO HARTOLDMON0036589 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 2 1 with the Court. 2 The deposition of Don Robertson was taken 3 before Tammy R. Jennings Gregory, commencing at 4 8:15 A.M. on the 3rd day of November, 1999, by 5 the Plaintiffs, at the law offices of Fite & 6 Miller, Anniston, Alabama pursuant to the 7 stipulations set forth herein. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036590 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 3 1 APPEARANCES 2 3 Appearing For The Plaintiffs: 4 MITHOFF & JACKS, LLP 5 By: Laura Ruth, Esquire 6 and Drew Wright, Esquire 7 111 Congress Avenue, Suite 1010 8 Austin, Texas 78701 9 10 Appearing For The Defendant: 11 LIGHTFOOT, FRANKLIN & WHITE 12 By: Adam Peck, Esquire 13 The Clark Building 14 400 20th Street North 15 Birmingham, Alabama 35203-3200 16 17 SMITH, HELMS, MULLISS & MOORE 18 By: Michael E. Kelly, Esquire 1 9 300 North Greene Street, Suite 1400 2 0 Greensboro, North Carolina 27401 21 2 2 Court Reporter: 23 Tammy R. Jennings Gregory 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036591 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 4 1 I N D EX 2 3 Witness: Don Robertson 4 Stipulations.................................................................................................page 5 5 Examination by Ms. Ruth..........................................................page 7 6 Reporter's Certificate................. page 83 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 EXHIBITS 14 15 (No exhibits were marked for identification, 16 admitted, or attached as exhibits hereto.) 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036592 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 5 1 STIPULATIONS 2 3 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED by and 4 between the parties through their respective 5 counsel that the deposition of Don Robertson may 6 be taken before Tammy R. Jennings Gregory, at the 7 law offices of Fite & Miller, Anniston, Alabama 8 on the 3rd day of November, 1999. 9 10 11 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that 12 the signature to and the reading of the 13 deposition by the witness is waived, the 14 deposition to have the same force and effect as 1 5 if full compliance had been had with all laws and 1 6 rules of court relating to the taking of 17 depositions. 18 19 2 0 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that 2 1 it shall not be necessary for any objections to 2 2 be made by counsel to any questions, except as to 23 form or leading questions, and that counsel for 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036593 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 6 1 the parties may make objections and assign 2 grounds at the time of trial or at the time said 3 deposition is offered in evidence or prior 4 thereto. 5 6 7 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that 8 the notice of filing of the deposition is waived. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036594 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 7 1 STATE OF ALABAMA, CITY OF ANNISTON, 2 NOVEMBER 3, 1999. 3 8:15 A,M., 4 5 DON ROBERTSON. 6 having been first duly sworn, was examined and 7 testified as follows: 8 9 COURT REPORTER: Usual stipulations 1 0 okay? 11 MS. RUTH: Yeah. 12 MR. KELLY: Yeah. 13 14 EXAMINATION BY MS. RUTH: 15 Q. Mr. Robertson, I think we were introduced 1 6 before. I'm Laura Ruth, and I want to - 1 7 have you ever taken a deposition before? 18 A . No . 1 9 Q. No. Okay. Well, you probably already know 2 0 this -- it's probably already been explained 2 1 to you -- but giving an oath is the same as 2 2 giving an oath in a court of law, and you're 2 3 required to tell the truth. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036595 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Okay. I think the way we're going 2 to do this is the way it's worked so far is 3 we'll quickly trace your work history and go 4 back into some areas and maybe talk about it 5 with a little more specificity. You are now 6 at Monsanto or Solutia? 7 A. Solutia, yeah. 8 Q. And when did you start working there? 9 A. September of '66. 1 0 Q. Is that your first job? 11 A. Oh, no. 12 Q. No. Had a long work history before there? 1 3 A. No, I was just twenty-one when I hired in out 14 there. I had two or three jobs before I come 15 there. 1 6 Q. What kind of work did you do before you ended 17 up at Monsanto? 1 8 A. Well, when I first graduated from high 1 9 school, we couldn't find any work around 2 0 here, so several of us guys went to Los 2 1 Angeles to try our luck out there and didn't 2 2 like it and heard they was hiring at Lee 2 3 Brothers. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888 -DEPO HARTOLDMON0036596 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 9 1 Come back, but I didn't get on at 2 Lee Brothers right then, so I went to work at 3 Chastain Roberts. It's now Supervalu. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. And worked at Chastain Roberts for a while 6 and eventually got on at Lee Brothers, worked 7 there a couple years and -- 8 Q. And what did you do for those places? 9 A. At Chastain Roberts, I was a picker. I'd get 1 0 an order for grocery stores -- grocery stores 11 give an order, and I'd go back in the 12 warehouse and fill that order to be loaded 13 onto a truck. 14 At Lee Brothers, I done all the 15 foundry work and done some molding and set 1 6 core s. 17 Q. Okay. And then you went from Lee Brothers to 1 8 Monsanto; is that right? 19 A. I worked there for a couple years and then 2 0 went to Monsanto. 2 1 Q. And what was your first job at Monsanto? 2 2 A. Well, I don't know whether it's so or not. I 23 was hired as -- I was probably - - they said I 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036597 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 10 1 was the first white laborer they hired out 2 there. 3 Q. What department was that? 4 A. I think that was part of the maintenance 5 group. 6 Q. Maintenance. And what did you do in the 7 maintenance department at that time? 8 A. As a laborer, I done laborer duties. We're 9 union, so you got different duties. 1 0 Q. Uh-huh (indicating yes). But I've heard 11 things -- well, I've heard two different 12 things. We can talk about this in a little 1 3 bit, but one that the plant was essentially 14 divided up in terms of maintenance workers 15 where some people took care of the north side 1 6 and some people took care of the south side. 17 Was that - - do you remember that - 1 8 A. We had a north maintenance shop and south 19 maintenance shop. 2 0 Q. Did you switch back and forth? 2 1 A. We'd, you know, you worked -- as a laborer, I 2 2 worked all over the plant. 23 Q. What would you say, like, just list for me a 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036598 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 11 1 few things that you did pretty much on a 2 daily basis. 3 A. The laborer group usually kept up the yards, 4 and we cleaned control rooms and offices and 5 helped the other maintenance people. 6 Q. Clean out tanks sometimes? 7 A. No, we -- that wasn't part of our duties as a 8 laborer. 9 Q . No? 1 0 A. (Witness shakes head.) 11 Q. Okay. How long were you as a laborer in the 1 2 maintenance group? 13 A. When I first went in, I wasn't there but just 14 a few months, and they opened up a new 1 5 department. 1 6 And they was asking for volunteers 1 7 that wanted to go down there, and I signed up 1 8 and went down there, P2S5. 1 9 Q. P2S5. What did you do at P2S5? 2 0 A. I was an operator. 2 1 Q. And so this is still going to be -- is this 2 2 before or after we transition to '67? 2 3 Because you said you were a laborer for a few 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036599 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 12 1 months. Was it after Christmas you went down 2 to P2 S 5 ? 3 A. It was probably after the first of the year 4 when I went down to P2S5. 5 Q. And how long did you stay there? 6 A. It's been so long ago. Probably close to two 7 years. 8 It was two operators per shift, and 9 it got so smooth and everything was going so 1 0 well that -- well, the original plan was 11 anyhow to go to one operator per shift. 12 When they did, I was one of the 1 3 junior operators, so I moved to another 14 department. 15 Q. Okay. Where did you move at that point? 16 A. That, I'm not sure about. It was either back 1 7 to the laborer group, or that may have been 1 8 when I went as an aroclor operator, laborer 1 9 in the aroclor department. 2 0 Q. Okay. So you were a laborer in the aroclor 2 1 department ? 2 2 A. Operator, laborer. 2 3 Q. Operator, laborer. Does that mean it was a 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036600 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 13 1 blended type position where you did some 2 operator functions - - 3 A. Operator laborer usually done the drumming 4 and flaking and stuff like that right there. 5 Q. Okay. And you're not sure if there was 6 something -- this is around 1969? Early 7 part? Late part? 8 A. Probably sometime along then, yeah. Like I 9 say, it's been so long ago, and that's such a 1 0 short stint, you know, all these different 11 places. I can't remember just how long I 12 spent in each place. 1 3 Q. So you're not sure if there was something 14 that was between your P2S5 tour duty and your 1 5 aroclor - - 1 6 A. Like I say, I don't know when I left P2S5 if 1 7 I went back to the laborer group or over -- 1 8 Q - - over to aroclor? 19 A . - - there . It's been so long ago. 2 0 Q . So there might have been something in the 2 1 interim? 2 2 A. Could have been. I could have gone back to 23 the laborer group. I can't remember. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036601 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 14 1 Q. How long you were in the aroclor department? 2 A. It was a very short period of time. It was 3 - - I don't know if it was over a year and a 4 half or maybe not been that long. I can't 5 recal1 . 6 Q. Okay. Were you there when it shut down? 7 A . No . 8 Q. So you left before it shut down? 9 A . Right. 1 0 Q. Did you leave a long time before it shut 11 down, or was there some initial downsizing 1 2 before it shut down? 13 A. I don't think so. I left there and went to 14 niran department. I don't know if I bid over 15 there or what. I just -- it's been so long. 1 6 Q. Okay. So you left there and went to niran. 1 7 And how long were you in niran? 1 8 A. I spent a long time over there. I stayed 1 9 there until probably early to mid '70s. No, 2 0 mid '80s. Excuse me. Early to mid '80s. 2 1 Q. So presumably you went over there sometime in 2 2 the early '70s because you went over before 2 3 they shut down? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036602 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 15 1 A. Right. I spent a long time in the niran 2 department. 3 Q. And stayed there for ten years, fifteen 4 years ? 5 A. Let's see. Between ten and fifteen. 6 Q. Between ten and fifteen years. Okay. And 7 what did you do over there? 8 A. I was an operator and a chief operator. 9 Q. Okay. And then that's -- you stayed there 1 0 until they shut down niran; is that right? 11 A . Right. 12 Q. That was about the time they shut down 13 niran. 14 A. Right. '86, along in there. 1 5 Q. And then you went where? 16 A . Biphenyl. 17 Q . Biphenyl. 1 8 A. I went everywhere. I've been all over. 1 9 Q. All right. That's how you end up with 2 0 staying power; right? 2 1 A. Let me -- I forgot. I didn't stay there the 2 2 whole time. About '84, I went to 2 3 maintenance. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036603 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 16 1 Q. Maintenance. 2 A. I went from maintenance back to biphenyl. 3 Q. So you weren't there when they shut down? 4 A. Huh-uh (indicating no) . 5 Q. Okay. So you were in maintenance about two 6 years ? 7 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes), two, three, four 8 years. 9 I thought I was getting a day shift 1 0 job, but I got surprised on that. They put 11 second shift on maintenance. 12 Q. What did you do in maintenance? Made the 13 switch on you huh? 14 A. Just maintenance work. 15 Q. You change lightbulbs? 1 6 A. Oh, no. I was an electrician. I was a 17 maintenance mechanic. Valves, pumps. 18 Q. Okay. So you're out there fixing equipment? 1 9 A. I was a millwright pipe fitter more or less 2 0 what I was. 2 1 Q. Okay. And then you go to biphenyl in about 2 2 '86? 2 3 A. (Witness nods head.) When niran shut down. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036604 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 17 1 Q. There was a big - - was there a big shift at 2 that point in who does what and sort of 3 trying to relocate some people, I guess? 4 A. Yeah. I had about twenty years seniority 5 right along that there, and I almost got laid 6 off. I was on the -- near the bottom of the 7 totem pole. But I went to biphenyl. 8 Q. Okay. And how long were you in biphenyl? 9 A. Let's see. I've been in maintenance since 1 0 about the last four years, so from then until 11 about four years ago. 12 Q. Is that '95? '86 to '95? 1 3 A. '94, '95. 14 Q. '94, '95. What did you do in biphenyl? 15 A. I was an operator. 16 Q. Operator. They say variety is the spice of 1 7 life, and you've now been, what, how many 1 8 different places; right? 1 9 A. Been about everywhere. 2 0 Q. And now you're back in maintenance? 2 1 A. I'm back in maintenance. 2 2 Q. And are you back doing pipe fitting type 2 3 stuff ? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036605 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 18 1 A. (Witness nods head.) 2 Q. Okay. Now, I know it was a brief time and a 3 long time ago, but we are going to need to 4 focus some here on your time in the aroclor 5 department and just sort of try to hammer out 6 as best we can what you did in the aroclor 7 department. 8 Maybe we should start with a day in 9 the life. What was - 1 0 A. When I first went over there, like I say, I 11 was an operator laborer. We drummed and 12 flaked, so mostly I flaked biphenyl. 13 Q . Okay. 14 A. Most of what I've done down there is flake 1 5 biphenyl. 1 6 Q. That would mean you're working in the solid 17 aroclor group? 1 8 A. That was kind of on the other side of me. 19 They flaked on the same department -- same 2 0 level as me, yeah. 2 1 Q. Okay. You know what, yesterday we had -- we 2 2 asked Mr. Rich to sort of draw us an overview 2 3 layout of what it looked like in the aroclor 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036606 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 19 1 department. Maybe if I pull that out, you 2 can kind of point to me where you were - 3 A. I'll see. 4 Q. -- and see if it rings any bells. It might 5 be easier for you. Okay. 6 We're going to use Plaintiffs' 7 Exhibits 23, 24, and 25. And for Mr. Rich's 8 benefit, he'll, I'm sure, want to qualify 9 that he told us from the onset he was not an 1 0 artist. So here we go. 11 As I understood it from our 12 discussions yesterday, let's -- looking at 13 Plaintiffs' Exhibit 24, outside you've got 14 your chlorinators and blow tanks for your 15 liquid aroclor production. 16 Do you remember that being right 1 7 outside the aroclor building? 18 A. Right. Okay. Yeah. 1 9 Q. Does that ring a bell? 2 0 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 2 1 Q. And do you remember if that was concreted? 2 2 Was that a concrete area? 23 A. I can't recall. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036607 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 20 1 Q Can't recall? 2 A . Huh-uh (indicating no). 3 Q Do you remember if there was a roof over that 4 at all? 5 A . Over this part right here? 6 Q Yeah . 7 A . I can't recall. 8 Q Just can't remember? 9 A . I run the continuous chlorinators, but I 1 0 can't remember if there was a roof over them 11 or not. I can't remember. 1 2 Q You ultimately -- you worked on these, the 13 continuous chlorinator, from this group? 14 A . Uh-huh (indicating yes). 1 5 Q . We've heard some people tell us that the 1 6 pumps on the continuous chlorinators leaked 1 7 on occasion. Do you recall those chlorinator 1 8 pumps leaking? 1 9 A . Well, we have drip pans under - 2 0 Q - Yeah, drip pans underneath the pumps. 2 1 A . I don't -- they run all the time, but like I 2 2 say, I don't - - 23 Q - Yeah . 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036608 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 21 1 A. But we have drip pans. 2 Q. Underneath? 3 A. We have them under the pumps now. 4 Q. For different - 5 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 6 Q. Not for aroclor? 7 A . No . 8 Q. How - - what did a drip pan look like? 9 A. Just a square aluminum stainless steel pan, 10 what ever. 11 Q. And did it run into something else, or would 12 it just periodically fill up and you would - 13 A. I guess you just -- eventually fill up and 14 you poured it somewhere. 15 Q. Okay. Do you remember what you did with it? 16 A . No . 17 Q . No . 1 8 A. Some of that stuff could be reworked. 1 9 Q. Might put it back in? 2 0 A. Might put it back where it could be reworked. 2 1 Q. Yeah. 2 2 A. It's been so long. I don't - 23 Q. You don't remember? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036609 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 22 1 A. Like I say, I didn't - - it was such a short 2 period of time I spent in that department. 3 Q. Sure. Yeah. When you -- if you'd kind of 4 pull it out from underneath, I assume, to 5 dump it back in; is that right? If you were 6 going to rework it, would you sort of pull it 7 out from where it is - 8 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes), slide it out. 9 Q. - - and trickle it back in? Was there a 10 procedure for cleaning out, cleaning out the 11 pans? I mean, was there some protocol, some 12 plan? 13 A. No, I don't reckon. 14 Q. Was it a common sense thing? Pan's full so 1 5 we empty it? 1 6 A. I guess so. 17 Q. Yeah. Did you slide another pan under it - 18 A. Well, you know, that was just put under there 1 9 as a precaution. Most of them, you know - 2 0 if it did leak. They all didn't leak. 2 1 Q. Uh-huh (indicating yes). Do you remember 2 2 there being some kind of packing in the pump 2 3 to help it - - 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036610 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 23 1 A. Well, you have packing and then mechanical 2 seals too. 3 Q. Both? 4 A. (Witness nods head.) 5 Q. What's the difference? 6 A. Packing is just solid material that you put 7 in there and tighten up, where a mechanical 8 seal is like - - 9 Q. Is it like a gauze or something? 1 0 A. Of the packing? 11 Q. Yeah. 12 A. Yeah. 13 Q. Kind of stick it in there almost like you 14 would put on a wound, I guess, to keep it 15 from - - 16 A. Yeah, yeah. 17 Q. And the mechanical seal is actually a 1 8 fitting? 1 9 A. It's stainless -- it slides up against -- I'd 2 0 have -- I can't tell you. 2 1 Q. Do you want to draw it? 22 A. No, I couldn't draw it. It's kind of 23 complicated. I couldn't draw it. Ain't no 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036611 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 24 1 way . 2 Q. Okay. But it somehow fits onto - 3 A . It fits on your shaft. 4 Q. And it keeps -- and it - 5 A. It keeps your product from leaking out. 6 Q. Did you always have mechanical seals on the 7 pump s ? 8 A. Yeah. 9 Q. As long as you remember? 1 0 A. (Witness nods head.) 11 Q. Did you always use packing also, or did you 12 use a - 13 A. We have about two pumps out there now. And 14 back then I couldn't tell you which had 1 5 mechanical seal on them because I didn't know 16 what a mechanical seal was as an operator at 17 that time. 1 8 Q. Okay. So you're not sure if there was a 1 9 mechanical - - probably not sure if there was 2 0 - - are you sure - 2 1 A. I couldn't tell you what kind of - 2 2 Q. -- whether there was a mechanical seal or 2 3 not ? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036612 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 25 1 A . Right. 2 Q. Because at the time, you wouldn't have known 3 what a mechanical seal was? 4 A. Being a mechanic now, the packing is just put 5 on pumps that's not used much and there's not 6 no problem with the product -- whatever it is 7 -- kind of product it is -- of hurting 8 anything. 9 The mechanical seal is used on 1 0 products -- on your main products. 11 Q. Okay. I'm going to have to admit - 1 2 A. Packing goes on stuff like water and stuff 1 3 like that there is what I'm trying to say. 14 Q. Okay. So you use packing if you think the 15 product is not toxic? 16 A. Right. 1 7 Q. Okay. If you think the product is toxic - 1 8 A. -- they usually use a mechanical seal. 1 9 Q. Because the mechanical seal - 2 0 A. - - is a better seal. 2 1 Q. Is a better seal. But you don't remember 2 2 whether or not there were mechanical seals on 23 the chlorinators? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036613 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 26 1 A. I couldn't tell you what kind. Sure 2 c ou1dn't. 3 Q. And do you remember if there was packing on 4 5 A. I don't know. 6 Q. You don't remember? 7 A. (Witness shakes head.) 8 Q. Okay. Okay. So for a while, you worked as 9 an operator on the chlorinators? 1 0 A. (Witness nods head.) 11 MR. KELLY: You have to say yes or 1 2 no . 13 THE WITNESS: Yes. I'm sorry. 14 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) What else did you do in the 15 aroclor department? 16 A. That was the only two jobs that I done in 1 7 that department was flaked and run those 1 8 continuous chlorinators. 1 9 Q. Okay. Let's talk a little bit about the 2 0 flaking then. 2 1 Over here, we drew a flaker on the 2 2 second floor in the main aroclor building. 2 3 And then what Mr. Rich told us is later, it 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036614 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 27 1 was moved to a warehouse, a special warehouse 2 for drumming and flaking. 3 Do you remember where or if you 4 worked in both places or - 5 A. Now, the biphenyl flaker was moved, I know. 6 It was moved to the warehouse. 7 Q. The biphenyl flaker. Well, where did you 8 work ? 9 A. I worked -- let's see. Say if this is the 1 0 bottom floor, I was kind of right in the 11 center right here. Somewhere right in here 12 (indicating). 1 3 Q. So the bottom floor on the center? 14 A. (Witness nods head.) 15 Q. And what did -- okay. So the way I was 16 described the flaker - - tell me if this makes 1 7 sense to you -- you've got a big roller - 1 8 this is going to be on the second floor - 19 you had a big roller that's rolling this 2 0 substance - 2 1 MR. PECK: Laura, remember he was 2 2 working on the biphenyl flaker. 2 3 THE WITNESS: I'm working on the 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 - 8 0 0 - 8 8 8 -DEPO HARTOLDMON0036615 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 28 1 biphenyl flaker. 2 MR. PECK: Not the aroclor flaker. 3 THE WITNESS: I didn't work the 4 aroclor flaker. 5 MR. PECK: It's different entirely, 6 so you might just want to describe it. 7 THE WITNESS: I'm getting a little 8 confused. 9 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) Okay. That's my mistake. I 1 0 had you working on the aroclor. Explain to 11 me what did you then. 12 A. This flaker, it would chill the product, come 13 off in a flake, and I'd put it in a bag and 14 put it on a pallet. 15 Q. Okay. Where did the product come from? 16 A. From another department up the hill somewhere 1 7 up in here. 1 8 Q. Did it come from the biphenyl department? 1 9 A . Right . 2 0 Q. Okay. How did it get to you? 2 1 A. Piped down there. 2 2 Q. It was piped down there. What did your 2 3 flaker look like? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036616 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 29 1 A. I couldn't describe it. I can describe the 2 new one they got down there because I worked 3 on it more than I did this one here. It was 4 just - - it had a big hopper. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. -- and a chiller that chilled the product 7 from a liquid to a flaking. 8 Q. Did it go through any process before it - 9 did it get piped directly into a hopper, or 1 0 did it get piped some place first? 11 A. Piped to a tank. 12 Q. It got piped to a tank. 13 A. And then it circulated through the chiller. 14 Q. Where is the -- is the tank in the aroclor - 15 A. I don't -- I -- the only -- I couldn't 1 6 describe this down here to you because I 1 7 didn't spend that much time down there. 1 8 Q. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 1 9 A. But when I -- another one of my stints, I 2 0 worked in the warehouse, and we -- we flaked 2 1 biphenyl as one of our duties down there. 2 2 Q. Okay. Let's finish up though with your time 2 3 in the aroclor department, and then we'll 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036617 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 30 1 move over to your time in the warehouse. 2 The stuff, the biphenyl product, is 3 piped to the aroclor department? 4 A . I as sume it was . 5 Q And it went into a tank? 6 A . Right. 7 Q You're not sure where the tank was -- 8 A . No . 9 Q - - in the aroclor department? 1 0 A . No . I wa sn 't responsible for the tank 11 anything. All I was responsible for was 12 getting - 13 Q. You never saw the tank? 14 A. I'm sure I saw the tank. 1 5 Q. You're sure you saw it, but you just can't 16 place it - 17 A. No, I couldn't place it. 1 8 Q. -- in your head? Do you have any 1 9 recollection of at least whether the tank was 2 0 inside or outside? 2 1 A. I couldn't tell you where it was at. 2 2 Q. Okay. From the tank, you knew it went to a 2 3 chiller? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036618 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 31 1 A. It had to go through a chiller. 2 Q. Through a chiller. What does a chiller look 3 like? 4 A. It's just a rotating -- big round rotating 5 machine right there that has water to it. 6 When it comes around, it has a blade, and it 7 just peels off that wheel. 8 Q. Sounds like it's similar to the -- what they 9 call the drum -- or not the drum, the -- they 1 0 called it part of the flaker in the aroclor? 11 A. (Witness nods head.) 1 2 Q. Where is the -- where is the -- where is the 1 3 biphenyl product in relation to this turning? 14 A. It's circulated out of that tank they pumped 15 down to it through the chiller. 16 Q. So it comes down from the tank? 1 7 A. (Witness nods head.) 1 8 Q. Does it get poured on top of the chiller, 1 9 into the chiller? 2 0 A. Well, I wasn't responsible for that, but the 2 1 way I recall it was that you pumped the - 2 2 it's pumped from the department up here to a 2 3 tank down here. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036619 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 32 1 And then you have a circulating 2 pump that circulated through this chiller. 3 And as it's chilled, it falls over into this 4 hopper. That's all I can say. 5 Q. When it comes into the hopper, what does it 6 look like? 7 A. It's a white material. 8 Q. Is it powder? 9 A. White powdery. 10 Q. White powder. Like machine -- I mean clothes 11 detergent, laundry detergent? 1 2 A. It's kind of like sugar. 1 3 Q. Like sugar ? 14 A. Yeah. 15 Q. How do you -- and that's the flaked material? 16 A. (Witness nods head.) 1 7 Q. What did you do? 18 A. When I put it in the bag and put it on the 1 9 pallet, when they got the pallet full, I 2 0 moved my pallet over there and put another 2 1 pallet down there to be filled up. 2 2 Q. How did you get it in the bag? 2 3 A. Just set it under a little funnel like thing 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036620 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 33 1 where it'd come out. 2 Q. Does it come out of the hopper into a funnel? 3 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 4 MR. KELLY: Answer out loud. 5 THE WITNESS: Yes, I'm sorry. 6 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) Is it constant or continuous, 7 or is there some valve where you turn it off? 8 A. It can be closed off, but most of the time it 9 was constant. 1 0 Q. So how many of you were down there bagging? 11 A. There was usually one guy over there, and 12 there may have been somebody drumming out. I 1 3 guess it's according to what your orders was 14 as to what was needed, to drum out or flake 15 out . 1 6 Q. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 1 7 A. Some days you didn't flake; some days you 1 8 didn't drum. 1 9 Q. What would you do on the days you didn't 2 0 flake? 2 1 A . Clean up. 2 2 Q. Clean up? 2 3 A. Clean up. Train. Train on other jobs if you 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036621 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 34 1 wanted to get some overtime. 2 Q. So that you would then be prepared to fill in 3 on the other jobs? 4 A . Move up. 5 Q. To move up. What does drumming mean? What's 6 the difference between -- I'm gathering that 7 you're equating putting these flakes in a bag 8 as the same as flaking? 9 A. (Witness nods head.) 1 0 Q. You call that flaking? That was the title of 11 the job? 12 A . (Witness nods head.) 13 Q What is the drummer doing? 14 A . He ' s put ting material in a drum. 15 Q What kind of a drum? 16 A. . Usually, it was a fifty-five-gallon drum . 1 7 Q Is it a fiber drum, or is it -18 A . - - it 's a metal drum 19 Q It's a metal drum . And is he putting the 2 0 same material in the drum that you' re put ting 2 1 into the bag? I s he putting -2 2 A . You don't put biphenyl in -- not in a 2 3 fifty-five-meta1-ga11on drum, but you put 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-88S-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036622 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 35 1 biphenyl in a fiber pack drum. 2 Q. But you told me there was somebody down there 3 with you who's drumming. If there's two of 4 you down there, one of you is flaking and one 5 of you is drumming; is that right? 6 A. Not on a biphenyl. There was just one person 7 on a biphenyl flaker machine. That was me. 8 Q. Right. But there's somebody else down there? 9 A. There's usually somebody over here maybe 1 0 drumming or flaking aroclor. 11 Q. Aroclor. So you all were just standing in 12 the same neck of the woods, but you were 13 working on a different product? 14 A. Right. Different machines and all. 1 5 Q. Okay. So occasionally, if you didn't have 1 6 any flaking to do on biphenyl, did you ever 1 7 substitute over in the drumming or flaking 1 8 area of aroclor? 1 9 A. As far as I recall, I never did go on that 2 0 side. 2 1 Q. So you were -- is there any actual barrier 2 2 between you, like, physical barrier - 23 A . No . 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036623 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 36 1 Q. So you can see them, yell back to the people 2 working over there, chat, all that kind of 3 stuff? 4 A. Yeah. 5 Q. Okay. So generally, you're the only person 6 doing the flaking? 7 A. (Witness nods head.) 8 Q. You're standing there; you've got a bag 9 underneath at the end of the funnel to fill 1 0 it up. Once it's full, you throw it on a 11 pallet? 1 2 A. Weigh it. 13 Q. Weigh it because it has to be a certain 14 weight ? 15 A. (Witness nods head.) 16 Q. Then it looks like if you're at -- we 1 7 described it yesterday as a bunch of lines, 1 8 maybe if you're in a Home Depot, and they've 19 got a bunch of stuff stacked on pallets. Is 2 0 that the way it looked? 2 1 A. I can't recall how many pallets -- how many 2 2 bags we put to a pallet. 23 Q. But you'd fill up a pallet, whatever the 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 - 8 0 0 - 8 8 8 -DEPO HARTOLDMON0036624 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 37 1 appropriate number was at the time? 2 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 3 Q. And would you -- sorry. 4 I tend to be conversational too, 5 and so I'm not always sensitive to the fact 6 you're not saying it out loud. What was I 7 going to say? 8 Would you then drive the pallet 9 away, or would somebody else? 1 0 A. It was just a little hand operated thing 11 where you mash a little button and it'd pick 1 2 the pallet up. And move it over to the 13 loading dock. 14 Q. Okay. So all that was mechanized? It's all 15 a machine? 1 6 A. The - - 17 Q. The pallet -- moving the pallet is all on 1 8 some machine you press a button; it lifts the 19 pallet, and then it moves it? 2 0 A. It was just kind of a miniature forklift is 21 what it was. I mean, you know, a little hand 2 2 operated, you know, like you jack a car up or 2 3 something another. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036625 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 38 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. And it had wheels on it and you just rolled 3 it over there to the dock. 4 Q. And so while you're doing that, you shut off 5 the funnel for the flaker? 6 A. You have enough time to do that, but you have 7 to hurry. You had to hurry. 8 Q. You had to hurry. Were there -- what did you 9 do if you didn't hurry enough? What was 1 0 the - 11 A. You'd overfill the bag, and you had a little 1 2 dipper you had to dip some out where you'd 1 3 get your right weight in there. 14 Q. Okay. So you would leave a bag poised for - 1 5 leave a bag sitting there ready to catch some 16 stuff coming out of the funnel and then quick 1 7 run over -- while it's sitting there ready to 1 8 catch -- you run over to move your pallet 19 over to the - - 2 0 A. (Witness nods head.) 2 1 Q. So it's kind of a race against you and the 2 2 bag -- and how fast the bag's gonna fill up? 2 3 A. Not what you call a race. You stayed busy. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036626 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 39 1 Q. Stayed busy. And if you get back there and 2 it weighs out too much, you'll scoop a little 3 bit out and do what with it? Put it in - 4 A. You had a drum right there. Sometimes you'd 5 underfill some bags. 6 When you put it on the scale if it 7 was underfilled, you had this drum right 8 here. You'd just scoop some out and put your 9 right weight in there. 1 0 Q. What did you do if some of the biphenyl got 11 on the floor? 12 A. It could be reworked. We swept it up. 13 Q. You swept it up? 14 A. (Witness nods head.) 1 5 Q. And did what with it? 16 A. Put it where somestuff may have some dirt or 1 7 whatever. We didn't mix it in with the good 1 8 stuff. 1 9 Q. You didn't mix it in with the good stuff. 2 0 And then you'd try and put it back in - 2 1 A. Rework it. 22 Q. What was -- you said when you weren't busy, 23 you would clean up. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036627 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 40 1 A. (Witness nods head.) 2 Q. What was cleaning up? 3 A. That's something we've always done out there. 4 We've always had good housekeeping. You want 5 a good clean area to work in. 6 You don't want dirt or boards or 7 whatever in your working area. Cleanup. 8 Just general cleanup. 9 Q. We've read some places and talked to some 1 0 people about hosing areas down using steam 11 and water or soap to hose places down. Did 12 you hose your area down? 13 A. You didn't want to get any of that stuff in 14 there wet. If they did - - I didn't. They 15 may have. I didn't. 16 Q. So you didn't hose down because you didn't 17 want to get the equipment wet or you didn't 1 8 want to get - - 19 A. Well, you - - 2 0 Q. What didn't you want to get wet? 2 1 A. The biphenyl. You didn't want to get the 2 2 biphenyl wet. 2 3 Q. But if you've shut down operations, is there 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-88 8 -DEPO HARTOLDMON0036628 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 41 1 any usable biphenyl you're going to worry 2 about getting wet? 3 A. We just kept the area clean. Where we hose 4 it down or not, I don't remember. 5 Q. You don't remember hosing it down? 6 A. (Witness shakes head.) 7 Q. Well, what are some of the specific things 8 you do to clean? You sweep; you dust; you - 9 I mean, you know, what are - 1 0 A. Well, you get old pallets out of the way, and 11 if there's any splinters off pallets, you get 1 2 them out of the way. You just swept up and 1 3 just general cleanup. 14 Q. Okay. Do you ever clean the equipment? 1 5 A. We may have blowed it down some. You know, 1 6 take an air hose or whatever and blow it 1 7 down . 1 8 Q. An air hose and blow it down? 1 9 A. (Witness nods head.) 2 0 Q. And then I guess whatever is in there would 2 1 fall in the floor and then sweep it up? 22 A. Swept it up. 2 3 Q. Did you wear any protective gear? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036629 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 42 1 A. Well, you'd want to wear a half face mask to 2 keep the dust out of your face. 3 Q. Okay. Is that like a surgical mask, or is 4 that - - 5 A. Half face air respirator. 6 Q. So it actually gives you oxygen? 7 A. No, no . 8 Q. Okay. How does it work? 9 A. Filters the air. Keeps the air -- 1 0 Q. Is there anything attached to it more than 11 just a mask? 1 2 A. Covers your nose and your mouth. And you've 13 got two filters on it right there, and you're 14 able to breath through it. 1 5 Q. Okay. So if you were going to blow something 1 6 - - blow clean something, you might put that 17 on ? 1 8 A. It wasn't required, but it was a good idea to 1 9 do it. 2 0 Q. Okay. How about when you worked out by the 2 1 chlorinators, what would be some of your 2 2 housekeeping out by the ch1orinators? 2 3 A. They really wasn't -- if I remember 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036630 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 43 1 correctly, there really wasn't that much 2 housekeeping to be done on that because it 3 was just continuous, you know. I -- it's 4 been so long. 5 Q. Yeah. You just don't remember? 6 A. And I wasn't in that department that long. 7 Q. Uh-huh (indicating yes) . 8 A. It's just been too long. 9 Q. Did you ever work on the muriatic acid? 1 0 A. I don't think I did. I know where it was at, 11 but I didn't have anything to do with that. 12 Q. Okay. So you said before that later you 1 3 started working a - - the flaker in the 14 warehouse; is that right? 1 5 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes) . 1 6 Q. And I think that this picture. Plaintiffs' 1 7 Exhibit 23, depicts where the ware -- if 1 8 you're looking at the plant and this is 1 9 Clydesdale, and this is 202 up here - 2 0 A. Okay. 2 1 Q. Mr. Rich put the aroclor department right 2 2 here (indicating) and the warehouse right 2 3 here (indicating), I guess would be the sort 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036631 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 44 1 of central south part of the plant, and had 2 the warehouse in more like the north east 3 part of the plant; is that about right? Is 4 that what you remember? 5 If you're coming in from Clydesdale 6 here -- it's not a very good picture, I 7 understand. 8 A. Does that say niran? 9 Q. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 1 0 A. The warehouse where I was at -- this 11 warehouse was the niran warehouse right here 1 2 (indicating). 1 3 Q. So the warehouse he has depicted on Exhibit 14 23 you think was the - 1 5 A. That looks like where the niran warehouse 16 would be located right here. Of course this 1 7 other warehouse right here wasn't down here 1 8 at that time. 19 MR. KELLY: Let's go off the record 2 0 a minute. 2 1 (Discussion off the record.) 2 2 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) So you moved over to - - now 23 that we've figured - - you're now in the 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036632 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 45 1 warehouse for flaking. At what point in your 2 tenure do you move to the warehouse to do 3 f1aking ? 4 A. I left -- I left out one of my little stints 5 right there. I went from biphenyl operator 6 to a loader, unloader in the warehouse. 7 Q. Okay. This is -- when is this - 8 A. This would have been in the early '90s 9 probably. 1 0 Q. Oh, early '90s. So this is going to be after 11 they shut down aroclor? 12 A. Oh, ye s. 13 Q. So that would probably explain why you only 14 remember one flaker. 1 5 A. This was the biphenyl flaker here. 1 6 Q. That makes sense. 17 A. It's gone too now. 1 8 Q. Now it's gone. So just quickly, what was 1 9 your -- what did you do here? Did you do 2 0 anything differently than you did when you 2 1 worked on the biphenyl flaker when it was in 2 2 the aroclor department? 2 3 A. Oh, yes. It was much simpler. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036633 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 46 1 Q It was much simpler. How was it simp1e r ? 2 A . You set - - you're setting down there. 3 Q Oh, you sit down? 4 A . Yeah 5 Q You don't have to be up and staying busy as 6 you said before? 7 A. All you had to do was close the bag up, and 8 you hit a little button, and it falls out 9 into a little conveyor belt and goes all the 1 0 way around. 11 Q. How does it seal itself? 12 A. You sealed it. 13 Q. You sealed the bag? 14 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 1 5 Q. But you're sitting down, so are you sitting 1 6 at the base of the funnel? 1 7 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 1 8 Q. So you're sitting on a seat at the base of 1 9 the funnel - 2 0 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 2 1 Q. -- with a bag. And into the bag is coming - 22 A. - - biphenyl. 23 Q. Biphenyl. You seal it, then you press a 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036634 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 47 1 pedal - 2 A. And it falls down on the conveyor belt and 3 rolls around, and another guy stacks it on a 4 pallet or in a box. 5 Q. So there's two of you now full time? 6 A. (Witness nods head.) 7 Q. Are you still called operators? You're still 8 called operators at this point? 9 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes), yes, ma'am. 1 0 Q. And you did this in the early '90s? 11 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes), yes. 12 Q. For about how long? 1 3 A. Well, I didn't do this every day. This 14 wasn't an everyday job, but I was a loader, 1 5 unloader for two or three years. 1 6 Q. So that's what they called the operator at 1 7 this point who does -- were you called a 1 8 loader, unloader the last time you worked the 1 9 flaker, when you worked the flaker in the 2 0 biphenyl department back in the '60s? 2 1 A. No, no. Just operator laborer when I worked 2 2 in aroclor department. 2 3 Q. Okay. But when you were an operator in the 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 - 8 0 0 - 8 8 8 -DEPO HARTOLDMON0036635 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 48 1 biphenyl department in the '90s doing 2 essentially the same job that you had done in 3 the '60s, only easier, they called you a 4 loader, unloader at that point? 5 A. No, I was an operator. 6 Q. An operator. So what's a loader, unloader? 7 A. I was a relief operator. 8 Q. Okay. So what's a loader, unloader? 9 A . Load t rucks. 1 0 Q. Okay. 11 A. Unload trucks, tank cars, rail cars. 1 2 Q. And that was your primary job? 1 3 A. (Witness nods head.) 14 Q. And then occasionally - 1 5 A. Occasionally, I had to do that. 1 6 Q. Where did you do your work as a loader, 1 7 unloader ? 1 8 A. In the yards. 1 9 Q. In the yards. Okay. I think I just have a 2 0 few more questions for you. 2 1 In your time at the plant, did you 2 2 ever go up to the landfill, particularly when 2 3 you were working in maintenance? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036636 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 49 1 A. When I was a laborer. 2 Q. Yeah. When you were a laborer with 3 maintenance, you went to the landfill? 4 A. (Witness nods head). Yes. 5 Q. Yes. Thank God we've got Mike because I'd be 6 just as bad. 7 What did it mean to go to the 8 landfill, what did you do? Did you go around 9 and pick stuff from -- pick trash up from the 1 0 different departments? 11 A. Picked up trash from different departments to 12 be taken to the landfill. 1 3 Q. Loaded on a truck? 14 A. Loaded on trucks. And we had a tractor and 1 5 trailer at the time that we'd load stuff on. 1 6 Q. You'd take up the hazardous stuff in the 1 7 drums -- in drums, or did you have a 18 special - 1 9 A. I don't know if you considered it hazardous. 2 0 We had unloaded some drums up there in the 2 1 1andfill. 2 2 Q. Would you pick up stuff from niran, pick up 2 3 drums from niran to go up there? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 - 8 0 0 - 8 8 8 -DEPO HARTOLDMON0036637 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 50 1 A. I'm sure we did. 2 Q. Yeah. 3 A. No, we may have picked up some stuff from 4 niran -- not necessarily niran, but we picked 5 up some stuff down in niran. 6 Q. Their trash basically? 7 A. Right. 8 Q. How about aroclor, did you pick up trash - 9 A. Yes, yeah. 1 0 Q. -- from aroclor? What other departments 11 would you pick up from, biphenyl? 12 A. The entire plant if they had trash, you know, 1 3 we'd take up there to the landfill. 14 Q. You had a route -- did you have a route you'd 15 drive and people would leave their trash in a 1 6 certain place and you'd pick it up? 1 7 A. Not in a certain place. We'd just pick it 1 8 up . 1 9 Q. Yeah. And you drive out to the landfill. 2 0 What did the landfill look like? 2 1 A. Just - - where we went was just a big hole. 2 2 Q. Big hole. Does it have liquid in it or no 2 3 liquid in it? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036638 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 51 1 A. Drums and stuff like that. 2 Q. I mean, you can see the drums, but, I mean, I 3 guess what I'm -- does it look like -- does 4 it look like a lake? Or does it look like - 5 A. No, no lake . 6 Q. -- a pit? 7 A. Just a big pit. 8 Q. So there's no free water in it? 9 A. (Witness shakes head.) 1 0 Q. Okay. Were you supposed to -- do you just 11 put everything from the truck -- I mean, do 12 you back up the truck and push everything off 13 the back? 14 A . Right. 1 5 Q. That's how you do it? 1 6 A. (Witness nods head.) 17 Q. Are there different pits, or is it one big 18 pit? 1 9 A. Well, I imagine we moved it around there. 2 0 They had a contractor that done all the 2 1 backhoe work and stuff like that up there. 2 2 We just -- we were told where to 2 3 put it, and that's where we put it. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 - 8 0 0 - 8 8 8 -DEPO HARTOLDMON0036639 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 52 1 Q So for a while, you put everything in one 2 pit, and then maybe that pit would fill up 3 and you'd go to another pit? 4 A . Yes. 5 Q Did you bulldoze over the pit? 6 A . They had a contractor do all that kind of 7 stuff up there. 8 Q They had a contractor. Do you remember who 9 the contractor was? 1 0 A . I couldn't recall his name. 11 Q No . 12 A. . No . 1 3 Q Was it a company or an independent guy? 14 A . I guess it was just an individual guy. I 15 don't recall. It was here in Anniston. 1 6 Q He was from Anniston, or I mean the company 1 7 was in Anniston? 1 8 A . Right. 1 9 Q - And you think the company probably just had 2 0 his name as the company as opposed to - 2 1 A . I don't know. 2 2 Q Yeah. Okay. You did that you said back in 23 your -- as a maintenance laborer, so that was 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036640 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 53 1 your first job; is that right? 2 A. Yes, ma'am. 3 Q. So you probably --- looks like you just did 4 that for about six months or so, four months? 5 A. I was in the laborer group two or three 6 times, but that -7 Q. Was that first time the only time you went 8 to - 9 A. That was the first time. 1 0 Q. Was the first time the only time you did 11 landfill work, or did you do landfill work 12 every time you were in maintenance? 13 A. I can't recall. Most of the other times if 14 there's anything taken to the landfill, the 15 shipping people would do that. I guess. 16 Q. Did it switch from being a maintenance job? 1 7 A. That's when aroclor shut down. 18 Q. When aroclor shut down, going to the landfill 1 9 switched to being a maintenance 2 0 responsibility to - 2 1 A. We didn't have maintenance anymore. We 2 2 didn't have laborers anymore or anything like 2 3 that. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036641 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 54 1 Q. Oh, when aroclor stopped, you got rid of the 2 hole? 3 A. No, no. When '86 come around, we done away 4 with a lot of crafts. 5 Q. In 1986, you got rid of a lot of the 6 laborers? 7 A. Wasn't no laborer force anymore. 8 Q. Okay. When did you stop having a laborer 9 force ? 1 0 A. I don't recall. We combined all the crafts 11 and done away with some of the crafts. 12 Q. I'm sorry. I don't think I know what word 13 you're saying. 14 MR. PECK: Craft. 1 5 THE WITNESS: Crafts. 16 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) Crafts. And crafts is a level 1 7 of employment? Craft you mean, like - 18 A. Like we used to have just millwrights and - - 1 9 separate from the pipe fitters and 2 0 millwrights -- and then we .combined the two 2 1 of them to just one craft. 2 2 Q. I see. I see. At some point, there was a 23 time when you -- before they got rid of 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036642 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 55 1 laborers where the laborer was part -- the 2 laborers' craft was to take things to the 3 landfill? 4 A. That was part of our duty. 5 Q. Right. And then later when they got rid of 6 laborer, you think they shifted that 7 responsibility over to shipping; is that what 8 you're saying? 9 A. Yeah, yes. I could say that. 1 0 Q. Okay. But you don't recall when that was? 11 A . No . 12 Q. But that would be when the aroclor department 13 shut down? 14 A. I don't know. 15 Q. You don't know. So you don't know if it was 16 after 1972? 17 A . No . 18 Q. In 1972, do you know if laborers were still 19 going to the landfill? 2 0 A. I can't recall. 2 1 Q. You can't recall? 22 A. (Witness shakes head.) 2 3 Q. When you -- you went back to maintenance 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036643 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 56 1 when? Oh, looks like you didn't go back to 2 maintenance until the '80s; right? 3 You were there -- when you first 4 signed on, you were in maintenance, and then 5 it looks like from my notes from we talked 6 about you didn't go back to maintenance again 7 until the '80s; is that right, or was there 8 other times you worked in maintenance? 9 A. I was in maintenance before the big shutdown 1 0 at niran. When niran shut down, I went to 11 biphenyl. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. I went from biphenyl to the warehouse loader, 14 unloader. From there I went back to 1 5 maintenance. 1 6 Q. Okay. And all that though is from the '80s? 1 7 Because niran shut down, we think, about '86; 1 8 is that right ? 1 9 A . Right. 2 0 Q. So you'd have been in maintenance in the 2 1 '80s. Do you remember if anybody on your 2 2 maintenance team -- and I'm just walking you 2 3 through this because it's like if you lose 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 - 8 0 0 - 8 8 8 -DEPO HARTOLDMON0036644 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 57 1 your car keys, right, and you don't remember 2 where they are, but then if you retrace your 3 steps when you come back from the grocery 4 store, sometimes you can find them or at . 5 least remember if you left them in the 6 kitchen or not. 7 That's the only reason I'm walking 8 you through this a little bit; that is, if 9 you remember when you were with maintenance 1 0 prior to niran shutting down. 11 At that point, do you know if -- if 12 not you if other people in your maintenance 13 crew at that point were still going up to the 14 landfill? 15 A. We didn't have any reason to go. Shipping 16 done it then for sure. 17 Q For sure. 1 8 A . But that was f r om recycle. Aroclor was gone 19 Q Okay. Okay. Why do you keep using aroclor 2 0 as a benchmark of some sort? 2 1 MR. KELLY: Object to the form. Go 2 2 ahead and answer. 23 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) You can still answer. I'm 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036645 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 58 1 just wondering why you keep saying that it 2 went from -- I don't think I'm understanding 3 why you keep using at that point aroclor shut 4 down and went to shipping for sure because it 5 was recycle. I think I need to have that 6 explained to me a little bit more. 7 A. I don't know where you're coming from. I 8 don't know what you mean. 9 Q. Okay. When I asked you in '84 if there were 1 0 still people in maintenance going to the 11 landfill, you said for sure not - - 12 A. Right. 13 Q. -- it was shipping. And you said something 14 after that that I don't think I fully 1 5 understood. For sure it went to shipping. 1 6 Aroclor was shut down? 1 7 A. Aroclor had been gone for a long time. 1 8 Q. Right. Twelve years at that point. Would 1 9 going to the landfill have switched to 2 0 shipping or shipping responsibility when 2 1 aroclor shut down? 2 2 A. I don't know. 2 3 Q. You don't know. Okay. We'll leave that 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036646 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 59 1 alone for right now. 2 So we know that -- we know that 3 shipping took things to the landfill whenever 4 you started in '66, '67, '66. 5 MR. KELLY: Object to the form. 6 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) I'm sorry. That maintenance 7 worked on bringing materials to the landfill 8 in 1966. We know that when you were in 9 maintenance again in 1984, it was no longer 10 maintenance's responsibility, that shipping 11 brought things to the landfill? 12 A . Yeah. 13 Q. Okay. So somewhere between the end of your 14 first - - somewhere between 1 9 6 6 and 1984, the 1 5 responsibility for bringing materials to the 16 landfill shifted from maintenance to 1 7 shipping, but you're not sure when? 1 8 A. It was probably when the laborer group was 1 9 done away with. We didn't have a laborer 2 0 group. 2 1 Q. But you don't remember when that was? 2 2 A . No . 23 MR. KELLY: For the record, I'm not 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-8QO-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036647 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 60 1 sure we're clear on maintenance as a 2 department and laborers as a job category. 3 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) Okay. As when you were a 4 laborer in aroclor, would it have been your 5 responsibility to - 6 A. Operator laborer. Not a maintenance laborer. 7 Q. Operator laborer. So laborers were -- the 8 term "laborer" applies only to the 9 maintenance department? Anything else is a 1 0 blended title? I mean, did aroclor have its 11 own laborers ? 1 2 A. Operator laborer, yes. 13 Q. It had an operator laborer. Did the operator 14 laborer for aroclor have any responsibility 1 5 to go to the landfill? 16 A. No, I don't think so. 1 7 Q. No. So the only position that you knew of 1 8 that did have a responsibility to go to the 1 9 landfill would be the maintenance laborer? 2 0 A . As far as I can recall. 2 1 Q As far as you can recall. Okay 2 2 I guess the only other question I 23 have about the landfill was when you went up 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036648 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 61 1 there you said it was like a big pit? 2 A. (Witness nods head.) 3 Q. You'd back up the truck - 4 A. Yes. 5 MS. RUTH: Thank's Mike. 6 Q. You'd back up the truck and -- I don't know 7 -- lift things, dump things? What was the 8 - - did one of you get out and actually get 9 into the landfill and actually hand it down 1 0 to each other, or how do you get it from the 11 truck? Or did you have one of those trucks 12 that tilts up? 1 3 A. We had a - - I can't - - sometimes we just 14 rolled them off; sometimes there was a - - 1 5 there was some kind of thing where you could 16 slide it back there. I can't remember. 1 7 Mostly we just rolled it off. 1 8 Q. Rolled it off. Yeah. And everything was - 1 9 was everything normally in a drum, or was 2 0 there trash bags? I mean, did you take sort 2 1 of the regular waste paper waste there too, 2 2 or was it all drums always? 23 A. Mostly drums. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036649 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 62 1 Q. Mostly drums? 2 A. (Witness nods head.) 3 Q. Did you ever bring old equipment or anything 4 like that up there? 5 A. I don't recall it. 6 Q. Don't recall. 7 A. If we had any old equipment, I think we had a 8 decontamination pit where stuff like that was 9 put in. 1 0 Q. Okay. 11 A. Then I don't know what was done with it. 12 Q. Where is the decontamination pit? Is it near 13 the landfill? 14 A. It was in the plant. 15 Q. It was in the main area of the plant. I wish 1 6 we had our pictures. They're being 1 7 overnighted. That would really help. Real 1 8 pictures as opposed to these drawings. 1 9 A. Any pipe and stuff like that went into the 2 0 decontamination pit. 2 1 Q. The decontamination pit. And then what 2 2 happened to it? 2 3 A. It stayed in there for a long time. What 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036650 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 63 1 they done with it, I don't know. 2 Q. You don't know? You never worked in the 3 decontamination pit? 4 A. Other than putting stuff in there. 5 Q. You'd put stuff in it, and then would you 6 treat it any way. I mean, did they say once 7 you put it in there, throw "X" on it? 8 A. I don't know. I don't recall. 9 Q. You don't recall being told to do anything 1 0 with it other that put it in the pit? 11 A. (Witness shakes head.) 12 Q. Who oversaw the decontamination pit? 13 A. I don't recall. 14 Q. Would it have been somebodyin maintenance, 1 5 do you think? 1 6 A. I don't know. It could have been because he 17 was -- you know, our boss was one in 1 8 maintenance that told us to put it in there. 1 9 But as far as him being over it, I 2 0 c ou1dn' t say. 2 1 Q. Who was your boss at maintenance? 2 2 A. Oh, God. I've had dozens of bosses. At that 2 3 time, it was Hue Starr, the late Hue Starr. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036651 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 64 1 Q. The late Hue Starr. Who was Hue Starr's 2 boss, do you know? 3 A. I don't know. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. That's a long time ago. 6 Q. I know. It was. 7 A. Before you were born. 8 Q. It was. Can't lie. 9 MR. KELLY: I wish it was before I 1 0 was born. 11 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) Okay. So the decontamination 12 pit -- do you remember if the decontamination 13 pit was lined, or did it look like the 14 landfill? Was it basically a big hole that 1 5 you threw things in? 16 A. It was -- actually, it looked like a swimming 17 pool. 18 Q. Looked like a swimming pool. Does that mean 1 9 it had water in it? 2 0 A. Right. 2 1 Q. Okay. Does that mean it was cemented? 2 2 A. Right. 2 3 Q. Was it cemented or that lining on a pool. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036652 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 65 1 which would just - - 2 A . It was cement. 3 Q It was cement. It wa s a cement pool . Did it 4 have a drain in it 7 5 A . I don't know. 6 Q Did you drain the water out peri ally? 7 A . I don't know. 8 Q So you were never asked to drain the pit? 9 A . No . 1 0 Q You don't know if they ever put - - you never 11 asked -- were you ever asked to put fresh 12 water into it? 13 A . No . 14 Q. Okay. Were you ever asked to put anything 1 5 into the water? 1 6 A. I don't recall if I was. 1 7 Q. Okay. So basically what I'm hearing is you'd 18 load up -- somebody would say "X" equipment 1 9 or "X" pipe or "X" whatever is no longer 2 0 needed, bring it to -- go pick it up from the 2 1 aroclor department or whatever department - - 2 2 A. So and so place. 23 Q. -- put it on the truck, you'd bring it over. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036653 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 66 1 you'd throw it in the swimming pool? 2 MR. KELLY: Object to the form. 3 MS. RUTH: I didn't characterize it 4 that way. 5 Q. You'd throw it in the pool, and it would sit 6 there, and you'd think that ultimately at 7 some point somebody would take it out, but 8 you never actually took anything out of the 9 decontamination - 1 0 A. I don't recall it. 11 Q. You don't recall taking it out. But, of 1 2 course, it would have at one point overfilled 1 3 if somebody didn't take out the old stuff and 14 put in the new stuff? 15 MR. KELLY: Object to the form. 16 THE WITNESS: It was big. 17 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) But it was big. How big was 1 8 it ? 1 9 A. Big. 20 Q. It was as big as a swimming pool. Bigger, 2 1 like, an Olympic pool? 2 2 A. What size is an Olympic pool? 2 3 Q. I don't even know. I threw that out there, 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036654 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 67 1 and I don't even know how big one is. I 2 guess about a hundred meters. 3 A. I don't deal in meters. I don't know 4 anything about meters. 5 Q. Let's think. 6 A. It was big. 7 Q. As big as a football field? 8 A. No, not as big as a football field. 9 Q. Big like a basketball court? 1 0 A. Probably the size of a basketball court. 11 Q. Do you have any idea how deep it was? 12 A. . No, I don't., 13 Q. Okay. 14 MS. RUTH: Can we take a little bit 15 of a break? 16 MR. KELLY: Sure. 1 7 ( Short rece s s . ) 1 8 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) I think I just have a few more 19 questions for you. I wanted to ask you if 2 0 you've ever heard of Lake Clegorn? 2 1 A . Yes. 2 2 Q. Is Lake Clegorn the same as a decontamination 23 lake? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036655 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 68 A . No . Q. Where was Lake Clegorn? A. His drawing is not all that good. All right. Kind of like you see this chlorine department before they shut it down. It was in behind it . Q. Behind it. Over here behind the chlorine department ? A. (Witness nods head.) Q. So that would be the sort of central west part of the plant? was - - If this is going west, it A . No . Q. Would it be closer to 202? A. West would be this way. chlorine plant. It'd be south of the Q. Okay. This is south. If this is 202 -- 202 is south. map . MR. WRIGHT: It isn't the best THE WITNESS: Okay. Q. (By Ms. Ruth) No? A. It would still be right in here. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036656 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 69 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. Okay. So right -- according to our map - due west of the chlorine plant. According to your recollection, due south of the chlorine plant? A. All right. Q. Did you ever have cause to go to Clegorn Lake ? A . Yes. Q What would you go to Clegorn Lake for? A. . Set up valve s. Q Set up valves? A . Set up valves as an operator. Q- What happened over at Clegorn Lake ? What Clegorn Lake used for? A. From the biphenyl department, we blowed bottoms over here into it. Q. And bottoms are what was left from the stills; is that right, are bottoms? A. Yes. Q. What's left over in the stills. And you would blow them over there. Does that mean there's a pipe? A. It was piped over there, yes. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036657 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 70 Q. It was piped over to Clegorn Lake. Did it - was it an underground system or above ground? A. I believe it was above ground. Q. Above ground? A. (Witness nods head.) Q. And would it pour in like a spout then into Clegorn Lake ? A. Right. Q. Okay. Was there anything else that went into Clegorn Lake that you knew of? A. No. As far as I recall, that was it. Q. Okay. Was Clegorn Lake something that was - or was it -- was it something that you all built, Clegorn Lake? A . Just a name. Q . Just a name ? A. Just a name. Q. Yeah. Was it lined with anything, or was it - A . Limestone rock , I think. Q . You think it was lined with limestone? A. . I be 1ieve it was limestone rock. I ' m sure . 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036658 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 71 1 Q. You're not sure. You're not sure if it was 2 lined at all, or you're just not sure? 3 A. I'm not sure if it was lined. 4 Q. Was there water in it? I mean, did it look 5 1ike a lake ? 6 A. No, it's not a lake. 7 Q. So it wasn't a lake. Didn't even look like a 8 lake? 9 A. It was just a name. I don't know who - 1 0 Clegorn, but it was just a name. 11 Q. What did it look like if you were going to 12 look at it? 13 A. Like I say, it was material. The bottom's 14 blowed out, and it would eventually set up. 1 5 Q . Get solid? 1 6 A . Get solid. 1 7 Q. Did it look solid as opposed to liquid, the 1 8 lake, or - 1 9 A. Right, it was solid. 2 0 Q. -- was it goopy? 2 1 A. It was solid. 2 2 Q. Solid. So the lake was actually solid? 2 3 A . Right . 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036659 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 72 1 Q. Is the lake still there? 2 A . No . 3 Q. When did they get rid of the lake? 4 A. I couldn't tell you the exact date, but we 5 recycle that material now and reuse it. 6 Q. Oh, now you recycle, so you don't need to 7 dispose of it? 8 A. (Witness nods head.) 9 Q. Again, we're trying to nail it down in terms 1 0 of a few years since we're not going to get 11 an absolute date, and let's just look back at 12 your history with biphenyl. 13 I think you said you were i n 14 biphenyl i n the early '90s; i s that right, 15 were you i n the biphenyl in the '90s or late 16 '80s? 17 A . Late '80s 1 8 Q Late '80s t o the early '90s . I have from hQ 00 19 about t o ' 94 ? 2 0 A. I had that stint in the warehouse loader, 2 1 unloader. 2 2 Q. Okay. Did you -- was Clegorn Lake there at 23 that point? Did Clegorn Lake still exist 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036660 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 73 1 when you were in the biphenyl department in 2 the late '80s or early '90s? 3 A. When I first went up there, we -- I couldn't 4 have been there very long before we 5 discontinued using that. 6 Q. So that would be the mid '80s? 7 A. It had to be somewhere along in there. 8 Q. Okay. But it was you all who put into 9 Clegorn Lake, not maintenance laborers? 1 0 Maintenance laborers didn't go to Clegorn 11 Lake, or did they? Or as a maintenance 12 laborer, did you - 13 A. We didn't have maintenance laborer at that 14 time I don't think. 1 5 Q. Was there a Clegorn Lake back when you were a 1 6 maintenance laborer? 17 A . I sure it was. 1 8 Q. You think it was there at that point. Do you 1 9 think it was there when you first started 2 0 working? 2 1 A. I'm sure it was there when I first started. 2 2 Q. Okay. Have you ever heard of the West End 23 Landfill? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036661 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 74 1 A. I've heard that term. 2 Q. Do you know where the property is? 3 A. I have no idea where it's at. 4 Q. Do think the West End Landfill and Clegorn 5 Lake could be the same place? 6 A. I wouldn't think so. 7 Q. You wouldn't think so? 8 A. (Witness shakes head.) 9 Q. You'd never been to the West End Landfill? 1 0 A. I don't know where it's at. 11 Q. You just kind of heard people talk about it? 12 A. (Witness nods head.) 13 Q. Okay. Now, have you ever been blood tested 14 for PCBs? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. You have been? Was this back in the - - about 1 7 five or six years ago when they came around? 1 8 A . Yes. 19 Q Do you remember what your blood level was? 2 0 A . It was low. 2 1 Q It was low? 2 2 A . I was kind of surprised. 2 3 Q Did it come back - - do you remember if it was 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036662 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 75 1 single digit? 2 A. It was single. 3 Q. It was a single digit number? 4 A. (Witness nods head.) 5 Q. Did you go to -- I talked with Mr. Rich a 6 little bit about how he remembers the process 7 of getting blood tested or how it worked, but 8 I'd kind of just like to walk through it with 9 you a little bit. Like I said, I don't think 1 0 it will take very long. 11 It may be easier to - - were you 1 2 asked to be blood tested? 13 A. No, it was volunteer. 14 Q. Volunteer. How were you made aware that 1 5 blood testing was an option if you wanted it? 16 A. The company asked us, you know, if we wanted 17 it . 1 8 Q. Did they send out a letter, put it on a 1 9 bulletin board, send you an e-mail? 20 A. Could have been on e-mail or whatever. I 21 don't recall. We were just made aware of. 22 Q. You don't recall how you were told. And then 2 3 did you go sign up for a time, or were you 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036663 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 76 1 just given a day? 2 A. We were given time slots, I think, to go up 3 to the doctor's office to give a blood 4 samp1e. 5 Q. Okay. You got your blood taken, and how were 6 you notified what the results were? 7 A. I don't know if Dr. Gehi -- we were sent, I 8 guess, a form or whatever. 9 Q. You got a letter. Did you get a letter in 1 0 the mail at home, or did you get a letter in 11 the mail at work? 12 A. I don't remember. 13 Q. You don't recall. Was there ever a meeting 14 to discuss results? 1 5 A. I believe we had a plant wide informational 16 meeting. 17 Q. Was that mandatory or voluntary? 18 A . Voluntary. 1 9 Q. Voluntary. Who -- again, do you recall how 2 0 you were notified about that meeting? 2 1 A. We usually get all that stuff over the 2 2 e-mail. 2 3 Q. Over the e-mail. Who ran the meeting. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036664 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 77 1 A. I can't remember who the plant manager was. 2 We -- we've had a change of plant managers. 3 It could have been -- I don't know if it was 4 Dr. Gehi -- I don't recall who led the 5 meeting. I really don't remember. 6 Q. You don't know who was standing in front of 7 you ? 8 A. No. I don't know if I even went because it 9 wasn't (sic) voluntary because after I done 1 0 got my results, you know -- 11 Q. You might not have chosen to go? 12 A. I might not have went to the meeting. I 13 don't remember. 14 Q. So you don't remember how long the meeting 1 5 was? 16 A . No . 17 Q Did you ever -- whether you were there or 1 8 heard about it, do you know what was 1 9 discussed at the meeting? 2 0 A . No, no one, you know -- that was an 2 1 individual's option or, I guess, if he d i d n ' t 2 2 want nobody to know what his PCB level was or 23 what . 2001 PARR PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036665 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 78 1 Q. I understand. I'm assuming, and maybe I'm 2 wrong -- correct me if I'm wrong -- was the 3 meeting about specific results, or was the 4 meeting generally about - 5 A. No, it was just a plant wide informational 6 meeting. 7 Q. Plant wide meeting. So they didn't talk in 8 the big meeting about people's individual 9 blood test results? 1 0 A . No . 11 Q. What kinds of things did they talk about? 12 A. I don't recall even being there. 13 Q. Yeah. Did you ever hear from anybody -- I 14 mean, people come out of the meeting, you 1 5 know, big rush of people comes out of the 1 6 meeting, everybody's having lunch or dinner 17 or whatever. Did they say, man, you really 18 missed a meeting? Such and such was 1 9 discussed. 2 0 A. No, we hadn't had no exciting meetings out 2 1 there. 2 2 Q. No meeting worth talking about. So you don't 2 3 know - - you don't know if you were at the 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036666 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 79 1 meeting, and you don't know what was 2 discussed at the meeting? 3 A. No, I don't . 4 Q. Do you remember when the first time -- well, 5 have you heard -- have you heard about 6 contamination, PCB contamination, off-site, 7 off the Monsanto property? 8 A. Repeat the question. 9 Q. Have you heard about PCB or aroclor 10 contamination off the Monsanto property? 11 A. If you take the "Anniston Star," you can't 12 help but see it. 1 3 Q. Yeah. Do you recall the first time you ever 14 heard about there being any kind of 1 5 contamination problem off-site? 16 A. When the "Anniston Starr" first released it. 17 I guess that was probably the first I heard 1 8 about it . 19 Q. Three, four, five years ago? 2 0 A. Something like that. 2 1 Q. You don't remember when? 2 2 A. (Witness shakes head.) 2 3 Q. You'd never heard about it before then? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036667 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 80 A. Not that I can recall. Q . No? A . No . Q. Have you ever heard about any other type of contamination in the area or around but not on Monsanto property? MR. KELLY: Object to the form. Q. (By Ms. Ruth) You can still answer. A. (Witness shakes head.) Q. Never heard about any contamination problems off the Monsanto plant? A . No . Q. In the area around the Monsanto plant or the waterways around Monsanto? A . No . Q. Have you ever heard about contamination problems on the Monsanto plant, on site? A. What do you mean contamination? I mean, what - - Q. Have you ever heard about their being a problem with parathion in the soil or mercury in the soil or PCB in the soil? A. (Witness shakes head.) 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888 -DEPO HARTOLDMON0036668 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 81 Q. Or any of the same in the soil off the plant, in the fish, in the water? A. Well, you know, other than reading what's in the paper. Q. That's it. So just in the last few years from reading the paper, the "Anniston Star"? A. (Witness nods head.) Q. And that's what you know. Do you remember when they shut down the aroclor department? A. I don't know the exact date, you know, anything like that. Q. You remember the event though? I mean, you remember - - A . It - - Q. You were no longer there. A. I was there. I was in the niran department. Q. I'm sorry. I mean you were no longer in the aroclor department. A. No, I wasn't in the aroclor department. Q. Do you remember there being any gossip as to why the aroclor department might have been shut down? MR. KELLY: Object to the form. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036669 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 82 1 THE WITNESS: No. Only thing that 2 concerned us was jobs. 3 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) Yeah. 4 A. People losing jobs. 5 Q. I bet. I think we're done. 6 A. Thank you very much. 7 8 (Deposition concluded at 9:35 a.m.) 9 FURTHER THE DEPONENT SAITH NOT. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036670 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 83 1 CERTIFICA T E 2 3 STATE OF ALABAMA 4 CALHOUN COUNTY 5 6 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the above and 7 foregoing transcript was taken down by me in 8 stenotype, and the questions and answers thereto 9 were transcribed by means of computer-aided 1 0 transcription, and that the foregoing represents 11 a true and 12 given by said witness. of the testimony 13 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither 14 of counsel, nor of any relation to the parties to 15 the action, nor am I anywise interested in the 16 result of said cause. 17 18 19 20 /2 1 TAMMY / . JENNI/UGS (^EGO^Y^ 'Notary Pub idyj State of Alabama 22 MY COMMISSICJN EXPIRES: 9 - 12 - 2 0 0 1 23 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO HARTOLDMON0036671