Document RaZE0oOarV4MMMQYjLJ57ywyX
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF WEST VIRGINIA
CHARLESTON, WEST VIRGINIA
JAMES M. ADKINS, A d m in is tr a to r o f the E stata o f Ralph E. A dkins, Deceased, a t a l,
P la in tiffs,
v s.
) ) )
) ) ) ) No.
81-2098
MONSANTO COMPANY, a D elaw are C orporation,
\ Defendant.
) ) ) ) )
-r > Jk - 1'
D eposition of LEE A. MILLER taken on b e h a lf o f th e
P la in tiffs.
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R e p o r te r : M. J o y S p r in g e r
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J am es M ay R epo rtin g S ervice
C ER T IFIED SHO RTH AN D R EP O R T ER S fl fl 2 - B O X 65
EDWARDSVILLE. ILLINOIS 62025
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y IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF WEST VIRGINIA CHARLESTON, WEST VIRGINIA
JAMES M, ADKINS, A d m in istr a to r ) o f the E sta te o f Ralph E. A d k in s,)
Deceased, e t a l,
)
) P la in tiffs, )
) vs. )
MON5ANTO COMPANY, a D elaw are
) )
C orooration,
)
-) Defendant. )
No. 81-2098
APPEARANCES:
M essrs. C a lw e ll, McCormick & P ey to n ,
by W. S tu a r t C a lw e ll, J r . , and John H. S k a g g s. E s q ..
E sq ., For P la i n t i f f s ,
M essrs. 3 o w les, McDavid, G raff & Love,
by P. M ichael P lesk a , E sq ., and John Woods, Esq.
For D efendant.
IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED by and betw een c o u n se l fo r the p l a i n t i f f s and c o u n se l fo r the d efen d an t th a t th e d e p o s it io n o f LEE A. MILLER may be tak en p u rsu an t, to Rule 2 6 (a ) of the F ed eral R ules of C iv il P roced ure, on J u ly 1 8 , 1 9 8 3 , a t the R a d isso n H o t e l, Room 2 1 5 , 9 th S tr e e t and Convention P la z a , S t. L o u is, M isso u ri, b efo re
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M. JOY SPRINGER, a N o ta r y P u b lic w it h in and f o r th e County o f M adison, S ta te o f I l l i n o i s ; th a t the issu an ce o f n o tic e and dedimus is w aived , and th a t t h is d e p o s itio n may be ta k en w ith th e same f o r c e and e f f e c t a s i f a l l F ed era l r u le s and s ta tu to r y req uirem en ts had been com plied w ith.
IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED t h a t any and a l l o b jectio n s to a l l or any part of th is d e p o sitio n , ex cep t o b je ctio n s a s to form of the q u estio n s asked or an sw ers g iv e n , a re h ereb y r e s e r v e d and may be r a is e d on the t r i a l o f th is cau se; and th a t the sig n a tu re of the deponent is not w aived.
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LEE A. MILLER produced, sworn and examined on b e h a lf o f th e p l a i n t i f f s , deposes and says as fo llo w s:
EXAMINATION BY MR. CALWELL:
(Whereupon the r e p o r te r marked P la in t i f f s 1 D ep o sitio n E x h ib it #355 (Monsanto .#236180 and #236181) c o n s is tin g o f 2 pages;
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Q What i s your p o s i t i o n th e re ?
A I Tm a G en eral Manager o f the N u t r i t i o n a l
Chem icals D iv isio n . Q Would you t e l l us w hat your e d u c a tio n i s .
A I g o tmy B a c h e lo r 's in C h e m istr y 'from
Augustana C o lleg e in Rock I s la n d , I l l i n o i s . I have a
Ph. D. in Organic C hem istry from the U n iv e r sity o f I l l i n o i s .
Q When d id you g e t your Ph. D?
A 1955.
Q And a f t e r g e t t i n g t h a t d id you go t o
work?
A I jo in e d Monsanto d ir e c t ly out o f
s c h o o l, and I have been w ith them 28 years now. S ta r te d
in r e se a r c h , worked in to the b u sin ess end o f the corp o
ra t io n .
You sa y you s t a r t e d in r e s e a r c h in
1955?
A Yes.
Q What was your job then? A I was r ese a rc h ch em ist in D ayton,
Ohio, in the then C entral R esearch L a b o ra to ries.
tio n ?
Q Is t h a t now M onsanto R esea rch C orpora
A Yes, i t is .
-Q And how lo n g w ere you in t h a t p o s i t i o n ?
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A For s i x y e a r s. During 1961. I had a few p rom otion s, but I d id n 't r e a l ly reach a management le v e l from the R and D a r e a .
Q And were you d o in g la b o r a to r y t e s t s , is th a t what you were doing?
A R eally laboratory research. Attem pt in g to d e v e lo p new p r o d u cts t h a t m ight be u s e f u l to th e c o r p o r a tio n .
Q During your s t i n t there in Dayton did you work w ith any ch lo ro p h en o ls?
A Yes. I worked w ith both 2 ,4 - d ich lo ro o h en o l and 2 ,4 ,5 - t r ic h lo r o p h e n o l a lo n g w ith p e n ta c h lo r o p h e n o l. These p r o d u cts were u sed in h e lp in g new compounds th a t m ight have p o t e n t ia l h e r b ic id e a c t i v i t y .
Q So you worked w ith d ic h lo r o p h e n o l, pen tach lorop h en ol and tr ic h o lo rp h e n o l?
A T richolorphenol. Q Did you do any work in c o n n e c tio n w ith a product th a t was m anufactured a t the N itro P lan t c a lle d 2,4,5-T ? A No. ^ Was your work w ith t r ic h lo r o p h e n o l in any way r e la te d to 2 ,4 ,5 -T ? A Only in th e sen se th a t p a r tic u la r m oiety was in clu d ed in 2 ,4 ,5 - T , but o th er than th a t i t ~
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was q u ite sep a ra te,
Q Did you r e l y on what M onsanto knew
about the production of 2,4^5-T and the use of tr ic h lo r o
phenol in th a t process in the work th a t you were doing
w ith trichlorophenol?
A No, no. Q uite d iffe r e n t ch em istry.
Q But you d id n 't r e fe r to any m a teria ls
th a t the company may have had r e l a t e d to t h a t p r o c e ss?
A No. I co n su lted only the published
l i t e r a t u r e t h a t wa? a v a i l a b l e d u rin g th a t tim e,
Q During th is s ix -y e a r p eriod were
you g e n e r a lly aware of a fa m ily o f su b sta n ces c a lle d
d io x in s?
A N ot r e a l l y . That was b e fo r e th ey b e
came w e l l known.
Q :f e l l , w ere th ey known .then? A To my k n o w led g e, th e y were n o t .
Q t o ?61 p eriod ?
And t h i s w ould have been in the 1955
A '55 to '6 1 .
Q To your k n o w led g e, d u r in g your work
w ith d ich lo ro p h en o l, pentachlorophenol and tr ic h lo r o
ph en ol, you did n ot c o n sid er a d io x in in the work th a t
you were doing th e r e , is th a t r ig h t?
A No. T hat's c o r r e c t.
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1 Q Now, a f t e r 1961 w hat d id you do? 2 A In 161 I came to S t . L o u is a s a 3 P r o je c t Manager in the Commercial Developm ent Department 4 o f th e O rganic Cherrfcals D i v i s i o n o f M onsanto, and I h e ld 5 th a t jo b u n t i l May o f *65 when I became a S e c t io n Manager in th a t same departm en t. 7 Q Now, w h a t d id y o u r jo b e n t a i l ? I s 8 t h a t th e same s u b s ta n c e s o r was t h a t ' a d i f f e r e n t a r e a 9 a ll together? TO A No. T h is was a b u s in e s s o r ie n t e d TT o p e r a tio n t h a t d i d n ' t in v o lv e la b o r a t o r y work a t a l l , T2 and from t h a t d a te forw ard , from th e *51 c a t e fo rw a rd , 13 I have n o t been in v o lv e d in la b o r a t o r y e x p e r im e n t a tio n . T4 Q So *61 was th e l a s t tim e t h a t you w ere 15 down in the l a b s , r ig h t ? 16 A R i g h t . 17 Q What d i d you do i n t h i s new p o s i t i o n , 18 '6 1 t o 65? 19 A What we w ere t r y in g t o do i s b r in g 20 on a major new fo o d in g r e d ie n t s e c t i o n f o r M onsanto, 21 and I was in ch a rg e o f in t r o d u c in g th e fo o d i n g r e d i e n t s , 22 among them b e in g fu m aric a c i d , c o ld w a te r s o l u b l e fu m a r ic 23 a c i d , and a d i p i c a c i d . 24 Q T h is was an e n t i r e l y d i f f e r e n t a r e a a l l 25 t o g e t h e r ?
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1 A I stayed w ith th a t job u n til February 2 o f 1 9 6 8 , and a t t h a t tim e I t r a n s f e r r e d t o New York C ity 3 t o s e r v e a s th e p r e s id e n t o f a new M onsanto a c q u i s i t i o n , 4 M onsanto F la v o r ssen ce Company, w hich was a company 5 in v o lv ed in fla v o r and fragran ce in g r e d ie n ts . 6 Q And t h a t s u r e l y had n o th in g to do
7 w ith the fla v o r o f 2 ,4 ,5 -T and trich lo ro p h en o l?
8 A R ight.
9 Q And, a g a in , th a t sounds lik e a b u sin ess
10 o r ie n t e d kind o f Job?
11 A V ery much s o .
12 Q And how lo n g w ere you in New York?
13 A I was in New York th rou gh J u ly o f
14 *74. Came back to S t . L ou is a s th e D ir e c t o r o f R e s u lt s
15 Management o f M onsanto. T h is i s w hat I*d d e s c r ib e a s
16 a p e r s o n n e l o r ie n t e d f u n c t i o n .
17 Q Now, in t h a t f u n c t io n d id you w ork vrfth
18 Mr. H arb ison ?
19 A Y es. Mr. H a rb iso n was th e le a d e r 20 a t t h a t tim e o f t h a t r e s u l t s management f u n c t i o n .
21 Q And was t h a t th e b r a in c h ild o f John
22 H anley? 23 A
yes.
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24 Q And was H a n ley P r e s id e n t a t t h a t tim e?
25 A Y e s. I th in k he may have been P r e s id e n t
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1 and Chairman a t t h a t tim e . I ' d need to c o n s u lt some 2 n o tes on t h a t , b u t i t ' s r e a d i ly a v a i l a b l e . 3 Q Is th at a corporate s ta ff position 4 th a t you went to? 5 A Yes. I t was in e f f e c t an o p e ra tin g company s t a f f p o s itio n . I worked fo r Monsanto I n d u s t r i a l 7 C hem icals, one of fiv e o p e ra tin g u n its a t th a t tim e. 8 And H a r b i s o n was n o t a s s i g n e d t o a n 9 o p e r a t i n g d i v i s i o n l i k e MIC? He was up i n t h e company 10 l e v e l s t a f f , I s t h a t r i g h t ? 11 A T h a t ' s c o r r e c t . 12 Q Were you a n o t c h b elo w him i n t e r m s o f - 13 A Y e s. He w o rk ed f o r t h e D i r e c t o r o f 14 p e r s o n n e l a t t h a t t i m e , Bob V ara ( p h o n e t i c } a n d I r e p o r t e d tD a 15 M an ag in g D i r e c t o r , H a r o ld B i e b e l . 16 Q So you w e re c h a r g e d w i t h i m p le m e n tin g 17 t h i s Management By R e s u l t s P ro g ram i n MIC, I s u p p o s e ? 18 A C o r r e c t . 19 Q And H a r b i s o n was c h a r g e d w i t h im 20 p l e m e n t i n g Management By R e s u l t s i n a l l t h e c o m p a n ie s ? 21 A C o r r e c t . 22 Q O.K. How l o n g w e r e you i n t h a t . s l o t ? 23 A I was in t h a t s l o t u n t i l November 1 s t 24 o f 1975, A t th a t tim e I became G eneral Manager o f th e 25 P r o c e s s C h em icals D i v i s i o n in MIC.
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Q Now, when you became a s s o c ia te d w ith
t
MIC, I g u e ss, in 1974, the N itr o P la n t was in th a t operating d ivision ?
A Y es. A c tu a lly , the Organic D iv isio n became a p a r t o f MIC when i t was form ed in 1 9 7 1 , s o in th a t sen se I was a s s o c ia te d throughout th a t p eriod w ith MIC.
Q A l l r ig h t . Now, when you became a ss o c ia te d w ith MIC, were you made aware a t an y tim e of a problem th a t N itro had w ith a ch loracn e r e la te d to the 2 ,4 ,5 -T process?
A Not a t th is tim e. In November o f 1976 I became G eneral Manager o f the S p e c ia lty C hem icals D i v i s i o n , and my r e c o l l e c t i o n i s t h a t I became aware o f th is concern about d io x in somewhere in the fo llo w in g Spring, the Spring o f *77.
Q T h at's the .f i r s t time you r e a lly run across th is substance?
A The f i r s t tim e I ran a c r o s s i t in th e M onsanto c o n te x t. Now, th e S e v e so I n c id e n t was p rob ab ly around 1975 and , o f c o u r se , th a t was w id e ly rep orted in the p u b lic and te c h n ic a l p r e ss; so I was c e r ta in ly aware o f i t a t th at tim e, b u t, a s I r e c a ll, t h a t was my f i r s t a w a r en ess o f th e d io x in i s s u e .
Q When you became a G e n e r a l M anager o f
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1 S p e c i a l t y C h em icals D i v i s i o n , i s t h a t s t i l l p a r t o f MIC?
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I t ' s gone through sev era l transform a
3 tio n s sin e s and no longer is a d iv isio n that d ir e c tly
4 corresponds to th a t o p e r a tio n , but one o f the r e sp o n si
5 b i l i t i e s was the N itro P la n t.
q In f 76?
7 A In '7 6 , r ig h t.
8 Q And was t h a t b e c a u se w h a tev e r su b
9 stan ces the s p e c ia l chem icals were were a ls o manufactured
10 th e r e a t N itr o ?
11 A B a s i c a l l y i t was b eca u se S p e c i a l t y
12 C h em icals had th e b u lk o f th e p la n t s th e r e a t N it r o
13 P la n t e x c e p t f o r the p h o sp h a te p l a n t s , s o we d i d n ' t
14 have t h a t many more c h e m ic a ls a t N it r o b u t we had th e
15 r e s p o n s i b i l i t y f o r t h a t p la n t ,
16 Q How lo n g d id your jo b a s G en era l 17 Manager o f S p e c i a l t y C h em ica ls D iv ts o n l a s t ? 18 A Through th e end o f th e y ea r 1 9 6 9 . 19 Q What happened th en ? 20 A I became G en eral Manager o f N u t r it io n a l 21 C h em ica ls a s o f Janu ary 1 , 1 9 8 0 , 22 Q You s t i l l have an a s s o c i a t i o n w ith th e 23 N it r o P la n t in *79? 24 A Through 1979 I d id h a v e , y e s , 25 - Q Was t h a t in c o n n e c t io n w it h your
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. 1 G eneral M anagership o f the N u tr itio n a l Chemicals -- 2 A S p e c ia lty Chem icals ended in *79. 3 Q Then you w ent on to G en eral Manager 4 o f N u tr itio n a l C hem icals, and th a t had n oth in g to do - 5 A Only i n d i r e c t l y . Two o f our p r o d u cts 6 a r e made a t N it r o . 7 Q What a r e th o s e ? 8 A P ro d u ct c a l l e d MHA, w h ich i s an 9 acronym fo r m ethionine h yd roxy-an alog. That*s a sy n 10 t h e t i c amino a c id u sed in a n im a l f e e d s , p o u lt r y f e e d . 11 The seco n d p ro d u ct c a l l e d b a n to q u in , S - a - n - t - o - q - u - i - n , 12 M o n san to trade name fo r a n t io x id a n t a ls o used to p re13 s e r v e f e e d i t u f f s . 14 0 Does the S a n to q u in p r o c e s s in v o lv e 15 th e c h l o r i n a t i o n o f a benzene r in g ? 16 A No. N e ith e r o f th o s e p r o c e s s e s d o . 17 A raw m a t e r ia l f o r S a n to q u in i s a p r o d u c t c a l l e d p a r a 18 n itr o b e n z e n e g o in g back a l l th e way t o th e b e g in n in g . 19 That in tu r n comes from c h lo r o b e n z e n e . So in t h a t s e n s e 2 0 i t d o e s , b u t i t f s a b o u t f i v e or s i x s t e p s b e f o r e we g e t 21 down to our p a rt o f the p r o c e s s . 22 Q Does th a t e n tir e p rocess take p lace 23 a t N itr o ?
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A No. I t takes p la c e, i t sta r ts l if e
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a t Kruminrich, th a t* s our e a s t s id e p la n t , goes to Queeny
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f o r a p r o c e s s , back to Krummrich and th en t o N itr o a g a in ,
so i t ' s e s s e n t ia lly a four- departm ent op era tio n .
Q So the c h lo rin a te d part o f th a t process
tak es p la c e some p la c e o th e r than N itro ?
A A t Krummrich,
Q A l l r i g h t . When you had ym r jo b s
w it h MIC, d id you have d i r e c t l i n e com m unication t o th e
M edical Departm ent, was th a t p art o f p u r fu n ction ?
A On an a s - r e q u ir e d b a s i s . No d i r e c t
lin e s in the rep ortin g sen se.
q Your name a p p ea r s on some docum ents
th at r e la te to a th in g c a lle d the N itro Task Force or
N it r o H e a lth S tu d y Task F o r c e . Do you r e c a l l th a t?
A Y es. The C hair nan o f c h a t Task F o r c e ,
I th in k , wes F red H o is a p f e l, who was my D ir e c to r o f
M anufacturing r e p o r tin g to me.
Q A l l r i g h t . ' Why w ere you on t h a t
Ad Hoc C om m ittee or t h a t T ask F orce?
A My r e c o l l e c t i o n , I was n o t on th e
Task F orce b u t r a th e r H o lz a p f e l, w h o 's my im m ediate su b -
ord in a te,' ch aired i t and assem bled the app rop riate group
o f people to run th a t op era tio n .
Q And you w ere m e r e ly c o p ie d w it h the
paper th a t was generated ? A Yes.
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1 Q Did you have any d i r e c t involvement 2 w ith the N itro H ealth Study Task Force? 3 A I fd say in d ire ct involvement rather 4 th a n d i r e c t . I c e r t a i n l y was s u p p o r t i v e o f the Task F o r c e , 5 was aware o f what was g o in g on b u t d i d n ' t p a r t i c i p a t e 6 in the routine meetings. 7 Q Mr. H a r b i s o n r e f e r r e d t o th e N i t r o 8 Task Force and the N itro problem as a m aterial problem 9 and s a i d t h a t in k e e p in g w i t h the Monsanto Management by 10 Rewards Program t h a t t h a t m a t e r i a l p r o b l e m w ould h a v e 11 s t o p p e d s h o r t o f him e x c e p t i n a n i n f o r m a t i o n a l s e n s e 12 w i t h you. 13 A Uh huh ( y e s ) . 14 ^ Mould t h a t be t r u e ? 15 A I c h i n k c h a t ' s a f a i r d e s c r i p t i o n , 16 y e s . I was ce r t a i n l y a p p r i s e d o f t h e m a j o r t h i n g s t h a t 17 w ere g o i n g on b u t n o t d a y - i n , d a y - o u t . 18 Q I n k e e p i n g w i t h t h e Management by 19 Rewards s y s t e m , t h e n , we re you k i n d o f t h e - - d i d you h a v e 20 t h e s a y o v e r t h i s Mr. H o l z a p f e i who was c h a i r i n g t h e t h i n g ? 21 A He l E p o r t e d t o me a n d o b v i o u s l y h a d a 22 g r e a t d e a l o f i n f l u e n c e , s u r e l y .
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Q In t h a t s e n s e d i d you have some r e s
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p o n s ib ility for th at N itro Task Force?
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A Yes.
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Q And in k e e p in g w it h t h a t p a r t o f your
2 jo b , d id you have to bee one fa m ilia r w ith the h is to r y
3 o f the N itr o problem and a l l that?
4 A In an overview way, y e s .
5 Q You d i d n ' t u n d e rta k e a n y i n d iv i d u a l or s p e c ific in v e stig a tio n o f that?
7 A No, not p erso n a lly .
8 Q And a t th e en d o f 1979 you moved on 9 to some o th e r u n i t , some o th e r job?
10 A Y e s. 11 Q D id your a s s o c i a t i o n w it h th e N it r o 12 problem end a t t h a t p o in t in tim e?
13 A Y es.
14 q And s in c e t h a t tim e have you had a n y 15 in v o lv e m e n t in th e o n g o in g h e a l t h s t u d ie s ?
l A None a t a l l .
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Q You j u s t l e f t t h a t in th e d u s t , r ig h t ? A Moved on.
' 19 20
Q When you w ere a t l e a s t in name r e s p o n s ib le fo r the N itr o Task F o rce, did you have o c ca sio n to
21 become fa m ilh r w it h a n y work done by Mr. U d e ll in th e 22 a n a ly s is o f su b s ta n c e s fo r d io x in or a n y th in g l i k e th a t? 23 A No.
24
Q D id n 't review any s tu d ie s th a t Monsanto
25
had made in y e a r s p a s t t h a t in v o lv e d t e s t i n g o f v a r io u s
- JA M ES MAY R EPO R TIN G S E R V IC E
ll
ft 4
1 1 ,
t
'
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
products for dioxin?
'."A
I was aware a t th e tim e o f th a t 1949
in c id e n t a P ro fe sso r Suskind was c a lle d in and did a
near-term stu dy which was view ed a s journey p o s itiv e , and I was a p art o f the d e c is io n to a g ree to have him
come back in a g a in . T his w ould have been back in a b ou t
probably F a ll o f *78, I g u ess, to I n itia t e another stu d y.
Q A ll r ig h t , s i r . I want to hand you
w h a t's been marked P la fc itiffs' E x h ib it #355 (Monsanto
#236180 and # 2 3 6 1 8 1 ), w h ich i s a Janu ary 2 4 , 1 9 7 9 , Mons a n t o memo, I t h in k , a u th o r e d by F red H o lz a p f e l, i s -
that correct?
A C orrect.
Q And y o u 1re shown on th e d i s t r i b u t i o n
list? A R ig h t. A c t u a lly , I ' m shown on a
d irect copy b a sis.
Q You have r e a d t h a t docum ent, h av e you
not?
A Yes.
Q And th e r e i s no r e a s o n t o b e l i e v e you d id n 't get i t , righ t?
A No.
Q In about the second or th ird paragraph r e f e r e n c e i s made to th e 2 , 4 , 5 - T p r o c e s s a s d e s c r ib e d
JA M ES MAY R EP O R TIN G S E R V IC E
17
#
t
t
1 2 3 4 5
6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
by Mr. H o lz a p f e l a s , "Ours was a d i r t y p r o c e s s ." Do
you know w hat t h a t means? A My i n t e r p r e t a t i o n o f t h a t w ould mean
th ere were numerous b yp rod u cts. There w a sn 't 100" y ie ld
2 ,4 ,5 -T .
Q
Would th a t in c lu d e d io x in ?
A In r e tr o s p e c t, y e s.
Q So i s " d ir ty " in t h a t c o n te x t maybe
a terra o f a r t , perhaps, in the ch em ica l in d u stry ? A I think so, A d escrip tiv e th in g.
You c a l l a c le a n p r o c e ss so m e th in g t h a t w ou ld g iv e a
very high y ie ld of the product you're a f t e r . D irty
p ro cess i s one th a t g iv e s an a r ra y o f m a te r ia l and you
s le e t out the m aterial.
Q I th in k th a t same paragraph o f th a t
e x h i b i t H o lz a p f e l o b s e r v e s , "We w ere p la g u e d w it h c h l o r -
a c n e p ro b lem s," D id you know w hat he was t a l k i n g a b o u t th ere when you read th at?
A I c e r ta in ly understand the sen ten ce. I d i d n ' t h ave a n y p e r s o n a l e x p o su r e t o t h a t . My r e c o l -
l e c t i o n i s we w ere in th e p r o c e s s o f g o in g o u t o f t h a t '
2 ,4 ,5 - T b u s in e s s somewhere a lo n g a b o u t 1 9 7 3 , s o ray
p erson al ex p erien ce during th a t time was a p r e tty m inim al o v e r la p .
'Q
You d i d n ' t make a n y in q u ir y y o u r s e l f
JA M ES MAY R EP O R TIN G S E R V IC E
18
---- ,
>1 2 3
"1 14
5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 i 18 * 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
abou t t h is ch lo ra cn e problem?
'A
No, I did n o t.
Q F air to say you j u s t accep ted H olz-
a p fe l' s observation as true?
A R ight.
Q I want to hand you w h a t's been marked
E x h ib it #356 (Monsanto #8322238, #8322244 and # 8 3 22245),
w h ich lo o k s l i k e a memorandum on M onsanto le t t e r h e a d
dated February 5 , 1979, authored by Lee A. M ille r , and
i t e n c l o s e s a tw o-p age memorandum o f s o r t s . Ask you
to take a look a t th a t.
> o
Q Dr. M i l l e r , th e tw o-p age memorandum a tta c h e d to the L a tte r , th a t was w r itte n b y y )u , the l e t t e r ?
A The l e t t e r was w r i t t e n by me, and my r e c o l l e c t i o n was th e tw o-p age a tta c h m e n t vjas so m e th in g I c o lla b o r a te d on w ith H o lz a p fe l.
Q How d id you d eter m in e in 1957 t h a t th e c a u s a tiv e a g e n t fo r ch lo ra cn e was i d e n t i f ie d a s b e in g a dioxin?
A I ca n 't respond d ir e c tly to th a t. To my knew l e d g e , t h a t was a r e t r o a c t i v e c o n c lu s i o n ,, bu t th a t m ight be in e r r o r . I'm n o t aware o f th a t.
Q Would a tim e l i n e be a f a i r way t o d escrib e th a t two-page document?
i
d
-
JA M ES MAY R EP O R T IN G S E R V IC E
1
I A Yes, i t w as.
2 1Q What was th e purpose o f d e v e lo p in g th a t?
3 A W ell, he was to tr y to put in to to ta l
4 c o n t e x t th e h i s t o r y o f how we g o t t o t h a t th en c u r r e n t
5 s itu a tio n which led Suskind to req u est an op p ortu n ity
6 t o come back in and do an a u d it .-jhich le d th e S t e e l
7 workers to req u est the op p ortu n ity to send S e lik o ff or
8 h is team in to do an a u d it. 9 Q And in fo r m a tio n c o n ta in e d in t h a t tim e 10 l i n e , a s fa r a s you know, was f a i r l y a c c u r a te ? 11 A B e st o f our a b i l i t y to put it t o g e t h e r 12 a t t h a t tim e , y e s . 13 Q L et me hand you w h a t's been marked 14 E x h ib it v357 (Monsanto ^ 8 3 2 2 3 1 3 ). 15 A O.K. l . Q Would p u b r i e f l y d e s c r ib e th a t fo r th e 17 r e c o r d , p l e a s e . 18 A T h is i s a l e t t e r from F red K o lz a p f e l 19 t o me a s o f Iferch 2 1 , 1 9 7 9 , b a s i c a l l y h i g h l i g h t i n g th e 20 need fo r. b e t t e r com m unication to our em ployees in term s 21 o f our o v e r a l l s a f e t y p rogram s, p a r t i c u l a r l y a s th e y 22 r e l a t e to c h e m ic a l e x p o s u r e s .
23 q You know i f a n y a c t i o n was ta k e n
24
a f t e r th e su g g e s tio n th e re in *57 ab ou t im proving the
25
communication about h e a lth and sa fe ty ?
JA M ES MAY R E P O R T IN G S E R V IC E
20
ijp "
.I
A I r e a lly c a n 't r e c a ll. I would
2 assume th a t i t was.
3 Q I 'm goin g to hand you #358 (Monsanto
4 #233577 and # 2 3 3 5 7 8 ). As you rea d i t , you *11 n o t i c e i t
5 makes r e fe r e n c e to some kind o f c o n fr o n ta tio n c o u r se .
6 I s e e th a t in a number o f docum ents. I ' m j u s t c u r io u s ,
7 d id you take the c o n fr o n ta tio n course?
8 A No, I did n o t. This cou rse was b a s ic -
9 a l l y a cou rse d esign ed to h elp the P la n t Manager and th e
10 s t a f f perform more e f f e c t i v e l y in c o n f r o n t s t i o n a l s i t u a -
11 t i o n s , su c h a s b e in g in t e r v ie w e d by th e p r e s s , s o on
12 and s o f o r t h .
13 ^ I s t h a t so m e th in g new th a t M onsanto
14 i s u n d e rta k in g ?
15 A I th in k t h i s was p r o b a b ly th e se c o n d
16 one o f i t s k in d . The f i r s t f o r th e N i t r o r i a n t .
17
i
18
Q for the record .
V oulc you ju o t b r ie f ly ^ e sc r ib e th a t
19 A T h is i s a memo from Jim McKee, who 20 a t th e tim e was D ir e c t o r o f P u b lic R e la t io n s in M onsan to,
21 t o j o e N o la n and M ontie T h ro d a h l. N olan was th e head
22 o f a l l p u b lic r e l a t i o n s , p u b lic a f f a i r s . T h r o d a h l,. o f 23 c o u r s e , i s th e key S e n io r V ic e P r e s id e n t in c h a r g e o f 24 th e e n v ir o n m e n ta l s a f e t y i s s u e .
25
Q O.K. I ' m g o in g to hand you w h at' s
JA M ES MAY R EP O R T tN G S E R V IC E
j
21
been marked P l a i n t i f f s 1 E x h ib it #359 (Monsanto #8322875), and s p e c ific a lly d ir ec t your a tte n tio n to the second
t
paragraph on th a t le t t e r which appears to have been w r itte n b y y iu , Lee A. M ille r , dated Way 10, 1979. W hile you f r e lo o k in g a t t h a t , l e t me go ahead and hand y o u E x h ib it #360 (Monsanto #8322918), and a sk you to look a t the f i r s t paragraph of th a t. That e x h ib it is a l e t t e r from M ontie Throdahl ad d ressed to you, dated June 1, 1979.
A O.K. Q In E x h ib it #359 in the second para graph you make m en tion o f some r i s k y s i t u a t i o n and then in the f i r s t paragraph o f 360, I b e lie v e , you ta lk a b o u t the many i n t e r r e l a t e d and d i f f i c u l t s i t u a t i o n s a t the N it r o P la n t . Now, what a r e you t a lk in g a b o u t th ere? A T h ere's twod if f e r e n t p eop lew r itin g those le t t e r s . X wrote 359 and M ontie Throdahl wrote 3 6 0 . I can sp ea k fo r my l e t t e r . Q O.K. A And my. c o n c e r n , a"I i n d ic a t e d in th e l e t t e r , was the tim in g on the S e l i k o f f and S u sk in d s t u d i e s . -My r e c o l l e c t i o n .is th e y w ere b o th com m ission ed alm ost sim ultan eou sly in the F a ll o f 1978, and y e t, S e l i k o f f g o t o f f th e ground much more q u ic k ly than S u sk in d d id . My l e t t e r i s e x p r e s s in g some c o n c e r n a b o u t
JA M ES MAY R EP O R TIN G S E R V IC E
2:
1 our i n a b i l i t y to g e t Dr. S u sk ind on th e move to do the
2 stu d y and the concern th a t c le a r ly i f the S e lik o ff data
3 sh o u ld be n e g a tiv e and sh o u ld come o u t p r io r to Suskind
4 b e g in n in g h i s w ork, we w ou ld have b een v e r y v u ln e r a b le
5 in d eed . T hrodahl's l e t t e r , I'm not sure e x a c tly h a t
6 h e 's ta lk in g a b ou t, I su sp ec t he m ight be ta lk in g n ot
7 o n ly a b o u t th e d io x in i s s u e b u t p o s s i b l y th e o ld PAB 8 problem t h a t goes back many y e a r s . 9 Q So in the one you w rote, you ju s t 10 w anted t o be su r e we g o t S u sk in d o u t th e r e f i r s t , r ig h t ? 11 A R ig h t. I w anted t o be a b l e t o s a y 12 in th e S e l i k o f f d a ta , i f i t a p p e a r e d , I w anted t o a t 13 l e a s t be a b le t o s a y we had S u sk in d underway and n o t 14 make i t lo o k a s i f we w ere d o in g a r e a c t i v e t h in g . 15 Q L et me hand you w h a t's been marked 16 P l a i n t i f f s ' E x h ib it #361 (M onsanto #8323075 th rou gh 17 # 8 3 2 3 0 7 9 ), and i t ' s a l e t t e r from W illia m J . M c C a r v ille 18 on M onsanto l e t t e r h e a d , d a te d June 2 5 , 1 9 7 9 , t o M ontie 19 T h rod ahl and y o u 'r e shown a s a c o p y e e on t h i s o n e , and
20
i t a l s o e n c l o s e s a memorandum o f some fo u r p a g e s . Why 21 d o n 't you g la n c e th ro u g h i t . The t h in g I'm i n t e r e s t e d
22
in i s on th e f i r s t page o f the atta ch m en t under Major.
23
Issu e s th ere a re four major is s u e s id e n t if ie d th e r e ,
24
so take a look through th a t.
25
A O.K. /
JA M ES MAY R EP O R T IN G S E R V IC E
* l
1
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22
23 24 25
Q Down i n th e fo u r m ajor i s s u e s , w ould you read those to the ju ry.
A F ir st issu e , " is the N itro Plant a s a f e p la c e? " Number tw o, "Are a l l e g e d h e a l t h e f f e c t s from t r ic h io r o p h e n o l, 2 ,4 ,5 - T and PAB d i f f e r e n t from e a r lie r fin d in g s? " Third i s , "Are a lle g a t io n s from em ployees and oth ers about e a r lie r s e c r e tiv e dumpings/ d is p o s a l o f contam inanted tr ic h io r o p h e n o l on N itr o property valid ? I f so , is th at o f m aterial concern today?" Four, " Is there a co n tin u in g exposure o f s i g n ific a n c e to d io x in s or oth er compounds in th e N itr o P lan t today? In the community today?"
Q During the time th a t you were a s s o c ia te d w ith th is Task Force and, I g u e ss, u n t il the end o f f i s c a l - - or was th a t year end?
A Year end, 1979. Q Do you know i f th o s e i s s u e s w ere answered? A I d on 1t r e c a l l th e y w ere an sw ered q u ite as d e f in it iv e ly a s th is would su g g e st th ey were goin g to b e , but I would sa y the im p ression I l e f t the d iv is io n w ith in *79 was th a t th e is s u e was p r im arily an h i s t o r i c a l one and th a t th e Suskind stu d y appeared to be very prom ising, a lth o u g h , a t th a t tim e we d i d n ' t have th e f i n a l d a ta .
JA M ES MAY R EPO R TIN G S E R V IC E
J 2k
'
1 2 3 4 5
6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
i
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
i^S?'.
Q A sid e from the Suskind s t u d ie s , was th e r e a n y th in g e l s e you r e l i e d on t o make th e c o n c lu s io n s
th a t you j u s t did?
A I guess in p art, H olzap fel's opinion,
the opinion o f our m edical p eo p le, in clu d in g Dr. Roush,
who i s much more k n o w led g ea b le a b c u t th e d a ta than we
had o u r se lv e s and th a t Suskind had been g a th e rin g .
Q Now, Mr. H arb ison s a i d i f th e r e w ere
two p eop le he c o u ld go to t o fin d ou t answ ers a b ou t .t h is
s it u a t io n , i t would be you and Dr. Roush. Are you sa y -
ing th a t Roush is the guy th a t r e a l l y had the h an d le on
th is?
A I would sa y he c o u ld g iv e you more
d e ta ile d in form ation than I c o u ld , but I would c e r t a in ly
s a y a t th e end o f *79 my q u a l i t a t i v e judgm ent was p o s i -
tiv e in a l l the four p o in ts.
Q And t h a t was p r im a r ily b a sed on your
c o n v e r sa tio n s w ith Roush, H o lz a p fe l and some know ledge th a t
you had a b o u t S u sk in d 1s work?
A The p r e lim in a r y p e r s p e c t iv e work from
Suskind's work.
Did you see any w r itte n rep o rts or
in form ation from Suskind?
A No. That was one o f our g r e a t fr u s -
t r a t i o n s . We w ere p u sh in g v e r y hard f o r th e S u sk in d d a t a .
JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
2!
1 I d o n 't have any occasion to see i t today, so i t nay 2 have w ell baan issu ed . 3 Q Do you know how i t i s t h a t you had 4 irfbrm ation t h a t S u s k in d 's work was v e ry prom ising? 5 A I t cane back through the Medical 6 Department, c e r t a i n l y Roush h im s e lf , Throdahl and> 7 I b e l i e v e , George L ev in sk a s who worked f o r Roush, were 8 a l l making c o n t a c t s w i t h S u sk in d on an i n f o r m a l b a s i s . 9 Q Was t h i s s o m e t h i n g t h a t he j u s t w ould 10 h a v e t o l d you? 11 A Yes. We h a d b e e n t a l k i n g a b o u t , 12 "W h en 's th e S u s k i n d s t u d y g o i n g t o be p u b l i s h e d , w r i t t e n 13 up? W e l l , we d o n ' t have a n y h a r d d a t a y e t b u t h i s 14 g e n e r a l f e e l i n g i s i t l o o k s p r o m i s i n g . " I t w o u ld be 15 t h a t k i n d o f a comment. 16 Q I w a n t t o hand you w h a t ' s b e e n marked 17 E x h i b i t #362 (Monsanto #8323 203 t h r o u g h # 8 3 2 3 2 0 5 ) , a n d 18 i t ' s a memo from F r e d H o l z a p f e l d a t e d J u l y 9, 197 9 , a nd 19 y o u 'r e shown a s h a v i n g b e e n p r e s e n t a t a m e e t i n g t h a t 20 th e memo r e c o r d s . What I ' m r e a l l y i n t e r e s t e d i n i s 21 r e f e r e n c e i s made t o a m o r t a l i t y e x p e r i e n c e o r s t u d y 22 r e l a t e d t o t h e 1949 i n c i d e n t , an d I t h i n k i t ' s i n t h e 23 f i r s t p a r a g r a p h , b u t you go a h e a d a n d l o o k a t i t . 24 A L e t me c o r r e c t one t h i n g . The c o p i e s 25 show a s t h o s e p r e s e n t p l u s a n d i t goes down C a r p e n t e r ,
JA M ES MAY R E P O R T IN G S E R V IC E
'
.
to !
to *
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
M ille r , e t c e te r a . So I w a s n 't a t t h a t m ee tin g b u t I
got a copy;of th is.
Q On t h a t m o r t a l i t y s t u d y , i s t h a t t h e S uskind-Z ack m o rta lity stu d y t h a t 's re fe re n c e d th ere ?
A I c a n 't sa y f o r c e r t a i n on th a t. I have th e im p re ssio n th a t i t was one th a t was done in p a r t w ith in M o n san to . T h a t may h av e b e e n Z ack a n d p a r t by S u sk ln d . I do r e c a l l th e r e s u l t s o f t h a t s tu d y w ere en co u rag in g to us a t th a t tim e.
Q I n y o u r c o n n e c tio n w i t h t h i s N itro
T ask F o rc e e p is o d e , d id you l e a r n how th e m o r t a l i t y s tu d y w as to be c o n d u c te d o r who was to be in c lu d e d in i t or anyching lik e th ac?
A N o t i n d e t a i l . To my k n o w le d g e , t h e
p la n was to r e s u r r e c t a l l m ed ic al re c o rd s c o v e rin g d e a th s o f p eo p le th a t w ere in the N itro p o p u la tio n , com pare th o se to death s in the p o p u latio n a t la rg e and reach c o n c lu sio n s as to re la tiv e ris k .
Q Who h a d d i r e c t s u p e r v i s o r y r e s p o n -
s i b i l i t y for th a t s tu d y in s o f a r a s back was c o n n e cte d
to i t , i f you know? A My r e c o l l e c t i o n i s t h a t F e r d M e y e r
was the p e rso n m anaging th r c s tu d y w ith in th e M ed ical D epartm ent.
Q And w ould he have been u n d e r Roush?
J
JA M ES MAY R EP O R T IN G S E R V IC E
27
.
*
1 2 3 4 5
6
7
8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
A He w ou ld have b een w ork in g f o r Roush. Q And was Roush in t h a t p o s i t i o n on the date o f th at study? A Yes, he was. Q So in terras o f e x a c t l y how th e dead p op ulation was d efin ed , I could probably ask Dr. Roush, righ t? A I think th a t's r ig h t. q O.K. L et me hand you 363 (M onsanto 3323313 th rou gh 8 3 2 3 3 2 0 ), and i t ' s a n o th e r memo from Fred H o lza p fel, and i t ' s dated August 24, 1979,and looks lik e you g o t a copy o f i t . I th in k item number 6 on page 2 th e r e i s some r e f e r e n c e made t o ex a m in in g some a i t r o em p loyees who were h ir e d a f t e r 1973. T h a t's what I'm p r io a r ily in te r e ste d in . A Uh huh (y e s ) . Q Do you knov I f t h a t s tu d y was a c t u a l l y done? A I. d o n 't know. q I f you d o n 't know w h eth er i t was d o n e , you o b v io u s ly d o n 't know the r e s u l t s , r ig h t ? A No. Q I want to hand you 364 (Monsanto 236245 and 2 3 6 2 4 6 ), w h ich i s a n o th e r memo from Fred H o lza p fel, and i t ' s dated October 15, 1979, and, I g u e ss,
JA M ES MAY R EP O R TIN G S E R V IC E
21
y o u * re a c o p y e e on t h a t . What
curious about, r e fe r -
e n c e l a made in th e se co n d paragraph on page 1 t o some
w ipe sam ples and w ater sa m p les. Take a lo o k a t th a t.
A Uh huh ( y e s ) .
Q W ith r e fe r e n c e to the wipe sam p les,
a s id e from th e ones r e f e r r e d to t h e r e , do you knew i f
any other wipe sam ples were taken a t N itro to t e s t fo r d io x in ?
A I'm sim ply n ot th a t c lo s e to i t . Q I f you were going to ask somebody a b o u t t h a t , who w ou ld you ask ?
A I would th in k I 'd a sk probably Royce S c o t t , who was th e P la n t Manager a t t h a t t im e , o r
George Ross c o u ld g e t th e r e c o r d s . He m igh t n o t have been p erson ally in volved .
Q 0,K . I want to hand you y e t an oth er memo from F red H o lz a p fe l d a te d O ctober 2 9 , 1 9 7 9 , on w hich you*re shown a s a co p y ee, and on the th ir d page, paragraph 9 there is reference to dioxin content of
ch lo ra cn e c y s t s . This su b je c t appears s e v e r a l tim es in the m inutes o f the N itro H ealth Study Task F orce, so take a look a t th a t and see i f you recogn ize thatlit t le issu e.
A I do have a vague r e c o lle c t io n o f th a t.
Q O.K. D id th e y e v e r g e t around to d o in g
JA M ES MAY R E P O R T IN G S E R V IC E
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`^
1 th is , te stin g th is for dioxin?
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X d o n 't r e a l l y know t h a t ,
3 Q You d on' t e v e r remember a n y th in g
4 oth er than th ey were planning to do i t , r ig h t?
5 A R igh t. S e e , the problem here i s th a t
6 t i i i s i s now two months b e fo r e y e a r e n d , and i f th e y
7 had done i t , I probab ly w ould n o t have known i t .
8 Q A g a in , w ould Roush be th e guy to ask?
9 A I th in k s o . My o th e r r e c o l l e c t i o n 10 i s t h a t the secon d h a l f o f *79 th e pace o f m e e tin g , o f 11 th e N it r o Task F orce were s lo w in g down a g a i n s t th e 12 p e r c e p t io n we th o u g h t th in g s w ere com ing i n t o p la c e
13 r e a s o n a b ly w e l l , t h a t i s , th e d a ta w ere n o t a s c o n c e r n in g 14 a s we once fe a r e d th e y m ight b e .
15 Q D id you come t o u n d e rsta n d why th e r e 1 Was t h i s f e a r t h a t th e d a ta m ight n o t be a s f l a t t e r i n g 17 a s you hoped i t w ould be?
18 A W e ll, I th in k th e p u b lic p r e s s a t 19 t h a t tim e on d io x in was more n e g a t iv e than i t i s to d a y , 20 S e v e s o i n c i d e n t and s o on.
21 Q I w ant to hand you 354 (M onsanto 22 #004300 th ro u g h # 0 0 4 8 4 7 ), a s k you i f y o u ' ve e v e r s e e n 23 t h a t b e f o r e .
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A No, I 've never seen th a t. I sim ply
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h a v en ' t se e n i t b e f o r e . I t ' s an Ag Company r e p o r t ,
JA M ES MAY R EP O R TIN G S E R V IC E
1 o b v io u s ly , on th e 2 ,4 ,5 - T p r o c e ss. This i s the kind 2 ' o f th in g th a t would n o t norm ally fin d i t s way in to 3 p la n t management hands. I t would fin d i t s way to the 4 operating le v e l of the p lan t. 5 MR. CALWELL: O .K ., D o c t o r . Thanks a lo t.
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1 STATE OF ILLINOIS ) W'. > SS.
2 . COUNTY OF KADIS ON )
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4 I , M. JO Y SPRING-R, a N o ta r y P u b lic , 5 d u ly com m issioned and q u a lif ie d in and fo r the 6 County o f M adison, S ta te o f I l l i n o i s , do hereby 7 c e r t i f y th a t p u rsu an t t o n o t i c e came b e fo r e me on 8 the ISth day of Ju lv, 1933, a t the R adisson H o tel, 9 Room 2 1 5 , 9th S t r e e t and C o n v en tio n P la z a , S t . 10 L o u is , M is s o u r i, T.FC A. MILL"?., who ^as by rae d u ly U sworn t o t e s t i f y t o th e tr u th and n o th in g b u t the-, 12 t r u t h o f h i s know ledge to u c h in g and c o n c e r n in g the" 13 m a tte r s in c o n t r o v e r s y in t h i s c a s e ; t h a t he was 14 th ereu p on c a r e f u l l y exam ined uoon o a th , and h is 15 e x a m in a tio n reduced to w r i t i n g under my s u p e r v is io n ; 16 t h a t th e d e p o s it io n i s a trun r eco rd o f th e te s tim o n y 17 g iv e n by th e w it n e s s ; and s ig n a tu r e o f th e w it n e s s 18 was n o t w a iv e d . 19 I FURTHER CERTIFY t h a t I am n e i t h e r 20 a t t o r n e y n or c o u n s e l f o r nor r e l a t e d to n or em 21 p lo y e d by and o f the o a r t i e s to the a c t i o n in w h ich 22 t h i s d e p o s it io n i s ta k en ; and f u r t h e r , t h a t I am n o t 23 a r e l a t iv e or em ployee o f any a tto r n e y or c o u n s e l 24 em ployed by the p a r t ie s h e r e to , or f i n a n c i a l l y in 25 te r e s te d in the a c tio n .
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*V 1
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I ha v e h e r e u n t o s e t my hand 'and a f f i x e d my n o t a r i a l s e a l on t h i s ______ day of July, 1983.
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N otary P u b lic w ith in and fo r the County of M adison, S ta te of I l l i n o i s .
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