Document Ra2QGVdknQjmkgKEdb9X6aKOv

In The Matter Of: ,DEBBIE ACCETURO, ETAL., v. ABEX CORPORATION ETAL., ROGER HOBBLE June 21,2007 MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 25 West 45th Street - Suite 900 New York, NY 10036 PH: 212-557-7400 / FAX: 212-692-9171 HOBBIE, ROGER - Vol. 1 exhibit /U^/9- SCF-EC-6050 ROGER HOBBIE IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF MIDDLESEX ***** DEBBIE ACCETURO, et al, Plaintiffs, v. ABEX CORPORATION, et al. Defendants. NO. MID-L-6601-99 DEPOSITION OF ROGER HOBBIE June 21, 2007 Tucson, Arizona Page 1 David Christy, Certified Court Reporter, No. 50061 (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bed-afe7-469e-b187-b081 ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE Page 2 Page 4 1 APPEARANCES 2 * * * * * 3 KEEFE BARTELS 4 By: Patrick J. Bartels, Esq. 5 830 Broad Street 6 Shrewsbury, NJ 07702 7 732-224-9400 8 For the Plaintiffs 9 10 DeHAY & ELLISTON, LLP 11 By: Thomas W. Burch, III, 12 Esq.(Telephonically) 13 3700 Buffalo Speedway, Suite 1000 14 Houston, Texas 77098 15 713-626-0126 16 For the Defendants Abex Corporation 17 18 BRZYTWA, QUICK & McCRYSTAL 19 By: Harry T. Quick, Esq. 20 1660 W. 2nd Street, Suite 9000 21 Cleveland, Ohio 44113 22 216-664-6900 23 For the Defendant Eaton Corporation 24 25 1 BE IT REMEMBERED that the deposition ofRoger Mobbie 2 was taken pursuant to notice at the J. W. Marriott, 3800 W. 3 Starr Pass Blvd., in the City ofTucson, County of Pima, State 4 ofArizona, before David G. Christy, on the 21 st day of June 5 2007, commencing at the hour of 9:30 am. on said day, in a 6 certain cause now pending in the Superior Court of Middlesex 7 County, State ofNew Jersey. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 3 Page 5 1 APPEARANCES(Continued): 2 ECKERT, SEAMANS, CHERIN & MELLOTT, LLC 3 By: Robert J. Hairier, Esq.(Telephonically) 4 Two Liberty Place 5 50 S. 16th Street, 22nd Floor 6 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19102 7 215-851-8400 8 For the Defendant ITEC 9 10 KELLEY, JASONS, McGOWAN, SPINELLI & HANNA 11 By: Joseph McGuire, Esq.(Telephonically) 12 Two Liberty Place, Suite 1900 13 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19102 14 215-809-8701 15 For the Defendant Carlisle 16 17 FISHER FALLON 18 By: Edward Kelley, Esq.(Telephonically) 19 517 Passaic Avenue 20 Spring Lake, NJ 07762 21 732-449-2177 22 For the Defendant Penske 23 24 25 1 INDEX 2 WITNESS PAGE LINE 3 ROGER HOBBIE 4 By Mr. Bartels 76 5 By Mr. Hafrter 77 23 6 By Mr. Maquire 84 10 7 By Mr. Hafner 87 4 8 By Mr. Bartels 94 5 9 By Mr. Hafiier 98 5 10 EXHIBITS 11 Exhibit 1 employment history 9 17 12 Exhibit 2 memo-1/14/87 10 8 13 Exhibit 3 monthly report 10 8 14 Exhibit 4 monthly report 10 8 15 Exhibit 5 employee training program 37 6 16 Exhibit 6 internal correspondence-4/16/85 48 18 17 Exhibit 7 internal correspondence-7/22/85 50 4 18 Exhibit 8 internal correspondence-5/1/85 52 1 19 Exhibit 9 OEM accounts document 55 10 20 Exhibit 10 internal correspondence-9/25/86 59 23 21 Exhibit 11 flyer 63 6 22 Exhibit 12 letter-7/31/87 65 1 23 Exhibit 13 internal correspondence-3/5/90 67 12 24 Exhibit 14 letter-10/14/86 69 22 25 Exhibit 15 letter-10/15/86 71 23 2 (Pages 2 to 5) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afe7-469e-b187-b081ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE Page 6 Page 8 1 EXHIBITS 2 Exhibit 16 letter-11/21/86 74 14 3 Exhibit 17 letter-12/19/86 76 12 4 Exhibit 18 letter-11/22/83 86 21 5 Exhibit 19 inter-office correspondence-2/13/84 90 6 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 A Yes. 2 Q Mr. Quick. I will give a briefseries of 3 instructions. Then I'm going to have some questions for you. 4 As you have done in the past, tills is a deposition. You 5 understand that you havejust swom an oath to tell the truth? 6 A Yes. 7 Q You understand that oath is the same oath you would 8 take as ifyou were testifying before ajudge and ajury7 9 A Yes. 10 Q Listen carefully to my questions. Ifyou don't 11 understand my question, it is okay for you to ask me to repeat 12 it and I will until you do understand it. Do you understand 13 that? 14 A Yes. 15 Q For purposes ofthis record, ifI ask you a question 16 and you answer it, we will assume two things. Number one, you 17 understood my question and, number two, you are answering to 18 the best ofyour ability. Do you understand that? 19 A Yes. 20 Q Please make sure all ofyour responses are verbal in 21 nature like you are doing now. It is hard for the court 22 reporter, and for me, frankly, to interpret a shrug or nod of 23 the head. Do you understand? 24 A I will. 25 Q Sometimes when we get into a flow ofquestion and Page 7 Page 9 1 ROGER HOBBIE, 2 having been first duly sworn to state the truth, the 3 whole truth, and nothing but the truth, testified on 4 his oath as follows: 5 EXAMINATION 6 BY MR. BARTELS: 7 Q Good morning. 8 A Good morning. 9 Q Would you please state your full name. 10 A James Roger Hobbie. 11 Q Mr. Hobbie, where do you presently reside? 12 A Oro Valley, Arizona. 13 Q Have you ever had your deposition taken before? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Can you approximate for me how many times? 16 A At least twice. 17 Q On those two occasions that you were called today. 18 did any ofthem have to do with asbestos litigation? 19 A No. 20 Q Can you generally give me an idea ofwhat they were 21 about? 22 A One was a product problem issue with one ofour 23 components. The other was an accident with one of our 24 components. 25 Q You are here with counsel today; is that correct? 1 answer, sometimes we begin to talk over each other. Let me or 2 whoever is asking the question completely finish asking the 3 question first, for two reasons. Number one, the court 4 reporter gets confused and he can't figure out who is saying 5 what and, second, you may think you understand the question 6 and answer too quickly. Do you understand that? 7 A Yes. 8 MR. HAFNER: Patrick, I can hear you perfectly 9 clear. The witness, I don't know if he is speaking softer, 1 10 don't know what type of phone setup there is. 11 MR. BARTELS: He has a soft voice. 12 MR. HAFNER: Ifyou can keep your voice up so 13 we can hear you. 14 THE WITNESS: I moved up closer also. 15 MR. HAFNER: That's much better. That 16 improves it a lot Thank you very much. 17 (Exhibit 1, employment history, was marked for 18 identification.) 19 Q I will show you what's been marked Hobbie 1 for 20 identification. Do you recognize that document? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Can you describe what it is? 23 A It is a history of my employment over the last 24 roughly 45 years or so with Eaton Corporation primarily and 25 then some consulting work I'm presently engaged in. 3 (Pages 6 to 9) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afe7-469e-b187-b081 ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE Page 10 Page 12 1 Q How current is the information on that document? 2 A It is up-to-date. 3 Q I will have some additional questions later on but I 4 wanted to go to a couple of other items before we do that. I 5 will show you a couple other documents preliminarily. I would 6 like to have the following marked 2,3 and 4. 7 (Exhibit 2, memo-1/14/87; Exhibit 3, monthly 8 report; Exhibit 4, monthly report, were marked for 9 identification.) 10 Q I have had those items marked and am showing them to 11 Mr. Quick and the witness. I will describe them before I ask 12 any questions. Mr. Hobbie, what I will do is, I have some 13 preliminary questions about each of these documents. I won't 14 go into anything substantive until you have had a chance to 15 look at them. I have a couple of preliminary questions. 16 According to your CV, you first began working 17 for Eaton in 1959; is that correct? 18 A That's correct. 19 Q What was the name of the company when you first 2 0started working for them? 21 A Eaton Manufacturing Company. 22 Q Where were they located? 23 A East 140th street in Cleveland, Ohio. 2 4 Q How long did you continue to work for Eaton until 2 5 you left their employ? 1 A Yes. 2 Q Can you describe generally what you did in that 3 position? 4 A Basically, I was domiciled in Portland, Oregon and 1 5 called on customers in the northwestern United States and 6 western Canada plus Alaska and the Yukon, both the truck 7 manufacturers that were located in that area and truck fleets 8 and dealerships and basically represented the company and our 9 products from the axle and brake product line area. 10 Q Exactly, what were you trying to sell, generally? 11 A General ly, we were trying to promote our 12 specification of our components in vehicles where a fleet 13 would specify different components when they were ordering new 14 trucks and just basically familiarizing them with Eaton 15 components and providing a contact so that we informed them 16 about our products and their use. 17 Q Can you describe some of the component parts that 18 you were representing to the customers? 19 A Yes. Drive axles that ranged from weight ratings of 2 0 15,000 pounds up to 44,000 pounds and generally 16 and a half 21 by seven inch S-cam brakes. Basically, that's it 22 Q I assume you had to have a working knowledge of how 2 3 the braking systems were used and what materials were used 2 4 within the braking systems? 25 A Yes. Page 11 Page 13 1 A Almost 38 years. 2 Q Based on the information in your CV, it looks like 3 you last worked for Eaton as an employee in 1997; is that 4 correct? 5 A That is correct. 6 Q Between 1959 and 1997, did you work for anyone other 7 than Eaton Corporation? 8 A No. 9 Q Your firstjob it looks like according to your CV 10 between 1959 and 1970, you worked as an engineering test 11 technician for Eaton axle and brake divisions; is that 12 correct? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Can you generally describe what you do as an 15 engineering test technician? 16 A Basically worked in a lab area where we conducted, 17 oh, both development tests and quality audit-type tests on 18 axle components using dynamometers and test trucks and also on 19 foundation brake products using primarily at that time test 2 0 trucks. 21 Q Obviously, your testing would include brakes? 22 A Yes. 23 Q Between 1970 and 1974, it looks like you then moved 2 4 on to the district sales and engineering manager for Eaton; is 25 that correct? 1 Q From 1974 to 1977, it looks like you were the 2 manager of the engineering test facilities and application 3 engineering for the axle division; is that correct? 4 A Yes. Brake product had been moved basically out of 5 the axle division when the brake division was formed, about 6 tire time I moved back to Cleveland. 7 Q Were you working in the brake division between '74 8 and 77? 9 A No. 10 Q What division were you working for? 11 A The axle division. 12 Q You were back in Cleveland at that point? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Generally, describewhat your responsibilities were 15 as the manager of the engineering test facilities. 16 A Basically, 1 was the manager ofthe facility that I 17 had worked in before where I was overall supervisor of setting 18 up tests and managing the people that conducted those tests. 19 Q Wliat kind of tests generally were you supervising? 20 A Dynamometer tests, truck tests where we used test 21 trucks to put new products through durability testing tilings 22 like that before they were released for sale to our OEM 2 3 customers. 24 Q What is a dynamometer test? 25 A Basically where you mount an axle between two load (800) 4 (Pages 10 to 13) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afo7-469e-b187-b081 ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE . Page 14 Page 16 1 absorbers and drive it with an electric motor just like a 2 truck would drive it and it stimulates the most severe 3 conditions an axle would undergo in its normal approved 4 application. 5 Q Would that also include the efficiency of the brakes 6 that were on the axles? 7 A It didn't at that time. There was a brake developed 8 by Eaton and built by Eaton that ended up at that particular 9 time had been moved to the brake division when the brake 10 division was formed and it was up in Southfield, Michigan. 11 Q When was the brake division first formed? 12 A It is my best recollection about 1974. 13 Q Why did Eaton, ifyou know, separate and develop 14 this new brake division? 15 A I think they wanted to probably focus more on the 16 brake market and we were able to do that when it was combined. 17 Q Prior to 1974, when the brake division was first 1B formed, how did Eaton test the sufficiency ofthe brakes on 19 the axles? 2 0 A When I started out, we were testing primarily with 21 test trucks and we followed SAE standards as far as running 2 2 those tests and basically we had to meet the criteria in those 2 3 SAE standards. 2 4 Q For the record, what are the SAE standards you are 2 5 referring to? 1 administered our warranties. 2 Q At that time, did any ofyourjob responsibilities 3 involve brakes? 4 A Not directly. 5 Q When you say not directly, how was it involved if it 6 was? 7 A Basically, the brake was bolted to an axle. And 8 basically, you came in contact with the performance of the 9 brake because you were - usually, if there was a problem or 10 an issue with the brake, you called somebody from the brake 11 division in to get them involved in it at that point 12 Q Did the warranty program - did the warranty program 13 include problems with brakes? 14 A Not at that time. They had their own 15 administration. 16 Q So I guess the brake division did offer warranties 17 on the brakes, but they handled it themselves and not where 18 you were at that time? 19 A Yes. 20 Q It looks like you moveon from 1980 to 1983, you 21 then become the manager of the service and parts for Eaton 2 2 truck components marketing; is that correct? 23 A Yes. 24 Q Can you describe where you were located when you 2 5 took over this position? Page 15 Page 17 1 A They had to do with different conditions where the 2 brake was run through severe operations, basically to measure 3 fade and wear, and tilings like that. 4 Q It is my understanding that the SAE regulations 5 established minimum safe braking -- I'm not sure what the 6 right word would be ~ braking conditions for a brake? In 7 other words, it told you, the brake manufacturer, what your 8 brakes had to do when put on a certain type of truck; is that 9 correct? 10 A That's correct. 11 Q It looks like between 1977 and 1980, you then became 12 the manager ofthe technical services and warranty for the 13 axle division; is that correct? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Where were you located when you took over that 16 position? 17 A In Cleveland, same facility. 18 Q Could you again generally describe what your duties 19 were in that position? 20 A Basically represented the product in the service 21 area as far as product performance in the field, provided 2 2 technical support to both our OEM and field organization which 2 3 represented us to the fleets and dealers. And the warranty 2 4 supervisor reported to me and basically he dealt with the OEMs 2 5 which were the customers we sold the product to and 1 A I moved to our corporate headquarters which was in 2 downtown Cleveland and had responsibility through the Eaton 3 truck components marketing which was the field organization 4 which included sales and service personnel distributed 5 throughout the United States and Canada. And I basically sort 6 of coordinated the service activities from the field back to 7 headquarters and product divisions and also ensured that 8 emergency parts were available. We had a system at that time 9 where we stocked some parts in our branches and I was 10 responsible for that 11 Q Did any ofthe components that you were dealing with 12 include brakes? 13 A Yes, at that time, right. 14 Q Can you give me an example of what you would do? 15 When you talk about monitoring and service calls, things like 16 that, give me an example ofthe kinds ofthings you would do 17 on a regular basis as the manager of the service and parts 1B section. 19 A Well, since essentially we sold our products to the 2 0 truck manufacturers, if there was a problem in a field 21 operation in a fleet or end user or dealer, the system 22 basically worked where the OEM, they would report the problem 2 3 back to the OEM and the OEM, ifthey deemed it necessary, 2 4 would contact Eaton and we would go in jointly and research 2 5 that problem and try to come to some resolution. 5 (Pages 14 to 17) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afe7-469e-b187-b081ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE . Page 18 Page 20 1 Q When you say OEM, you are referring to original 2 equipment manufacturer? 3 . A Truck manufacturer or trailer. 4 Q Then the fleet would be the actual entity using the 5 truck? 6 A Yes. 7 Q It is my understanding when an OEM, obviously you 8 will correct me ifI'm wrong, it is my understanding that 9 Eaton would provide the axles to the OEM for the OEM to 10 actually manufacture the truck; is that correct? 11 A That's correct 12 Q Were you familiar at all during the 1980-83 time 13 frame with who the OEMs were that Eaton did regular business 14 with? 15 A Yes. 16 Q How did Eaton conduct business with the OEMs? Did 17 they enter into contracts, was it catch as catch can? IB ALL COUNSEL: Objection to the form. 19 Q If you understand, you can answer. 20 A Generally, the truck manufacturer would decide to 21 engineer our product into their vehicle. And they would then 22 enter that product into their sales data books and make it 23 available to their customers and basically our competition did 24 the same thing. 25 Through that period of time, I don't think 1 Q Now, I understand obviously there is different sizes 2 oftrucks. The OEM, the Ford that you just mentioned, from 3 '80 to '83, do you recall what size trucks Ford was 4 manufacturing with Eaton axles? 5 A Everything from class six up to class eight 6 Q Class eight being the heaviest truck? 7 A Yes. 8 Q How about International? 9 A The same. 10 Q How about Freightliner? 11 A Primarily class eight at that time. 12 Q Ofthe group that you have just mentioned, who was 13 the largest most significant OEM for Eaton during this time 14 frame 1980 to 1983? 15 A I would say overall probably between Ford and 16 International. I left out GMC at that time too. They were 17 also in there, GMC and Chevrolet. They were fairly large too. 18 Q So Ford and International and GMC were the largest 19 OEMs that Eaton did business with during the 1980 to 1983 time 20 frame? 21 A Yes. 22 Q During 1980 to 1983, are you familiar with where 23 Eaton obtained its brake linings from? 24 A Yes. 25 Q Can you tell me whose brake linings Eaton used Page 19 Page 21 1 there were really any direct contracts as far as supply 2 contracts in that, during that era. It sort of evolved later 3 on where there were more supply contracts developed. 4 Q As I understand it, a truck OEM would decide, make 5 some decision based on performance or other issues to take 6 your product and put it into their truck or spec it into their 7 truck? 8 A That's correct. And it also had to do with customer 9 or fleet specifications and preferences. 10 Q And what you would do, they would come to you and 11 say we are going to make this truck and we want your axle and 12 here is what we want in our axle? 13 A That is correct. 14 Q You would then try to meet their specifications, you 15 would manufacture the axles and then send them to the OEM to 16 allow them to then place them into their product? 17 A That's correct. 18 Q At that time during the 1980-'83 time frame, do you 19 recall the names of any of the OEMs that used Eaton axles? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Could you name them for me. 22 A Ford Motor Company, International Harvester, 23 Kenworth, Peterbilt, Mack, Freightliner, Crane Carrier, I'm 24 trying to think of who was still around, I don't know whether 25 Brockway was still in existence then or not. White Motor. 1 during this time frame, 1980 to 1983? 2 A I would say primarily Abex and Carlisle. 3 Q Were there others during this time frame? 4 A There were small special orders. I think Raybestos 5 was in there and maybe New Turn. 6 Q You described these as special orders so they 7 weren't generally ones being used by Eaton during this time 8 frame? 9 A Probably they were more special orders where a 10 customer said I want that particular type of tining. 11 Q I want to stop for a second and ask you to look at 12 these documents I have given you previously, Hobbie Exhibits 13 2,3 and 4. I have some general preliminarily questions. I 14 won't get into anything substantively right now. 15 Do you recognize Hobbie Exhibit 2? 16 A Yes. 17 Q Can you just generally describe what it is? 18 A It was a request made to me by the then -- this is 19 1987 - the axle brake division to help them determine where 20 some fleet customers would be interested in testing or 21 basically applying nonasbestos-type linings and operating them 22 in their fleets. 23 Q My first question is, does that form look familiar 24 to you? 25 A Yes. 6 (Pages 18 to 21) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afe7-469e-b187-b081ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE . Page 22 Page 24 1 Q The form itself? l A Yes. 2 A Yes. 2 Q Can you describe how those reports were used by 3 Q Can you describe what the form is? 3 Eaton employees? 4 A Interoffice correspondence form, just written 4 A Again, it was a summary or the past mon th's 5 communications between offices. 5 activities in various areas as listed to update management and 6 Q How was an interoffice correspondence used during 6 the other people that were copied and had some interest in 7 the time that you were working at Eaton? 7 what was going on as to what progress was being made or what 8 A Basically to communicate requests, basically in the 8 have you in different areas. 9 form - a formal record that that request had been made for 9 Q During the time you were at Eaton, did employees of 10 the files and what have you. 10 Eaton regularly rely upon the information that was contained 11 Q Did the employees rely on information contained in 11 in such reports to do business for Eaton? 12 interoffice correspondences to do theirjob, generally 12 MR. QUICK: Objection to what he knows about 13 speaking? 13 what other people relied on. Go ahead and answer. 14 MR. QUICK: Objection, go ahead and answer. 14 A I would say yes. 15 A Yes, generally. 15 Q That's all I want to ask about right now. I will 16 Q Were these types of correspondence regularly used by 16 come back to these. We were up to 1983. It looks like 17 employees to communicate with other employees of Eaton during 17 according to your CV -- well, let me step back. IB the time you worked with Eaton? 18 During the time that you worked from 1959 19 A Yes. 19 through 1983 with Eaton, did you ever become aware ofwhat the 20 Q The next one is Eaton Exhibit 3 which is in front of 20 brake materials were made of that Eaton were using in its 21 you. I will ask you some general questions. Do you recognize 21 products? 22 what Eaton Exhibit 3 is? 22 A Generally, yes. 23 A Yes. 23 Q Generally, what was your understanding of what was 24 Q Can you describe generally what the form ofthe 24 contained in the brake products that were used by Eaton on 25 document is? 25 their axles? Page 23 Page 25 1 A This particular one is a national accounts monthly 2 report and basically it is a summary of the previous month's 3 activities with our national account fleet customers and 4 basically reporting it back to upper management 5 Q During the time that you worked with Eaton, were you 6 familiar with those kinds of monthly reports? 7 A Yes. 8 Q How were these monthly reports used by Eaton? 9 A Again, as communication of information, basically. 10 Q Did the employees of Eaton during the time that you 11 were there regularly or routinely rely upon the information 12 that was contained in those monthly reports to do business for 13 Eaton? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Do you recognize that as it appears to be a copy of 16 an Eaton monthly report It actually has your name on it? 17 A Yes, it has my name on it 18 Q Hobbie Exhibit 4. Do you recognize Hobbie Exhibit 19 4? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Can you describe what that particular document is? 22 A It is another monthly report from the marketing 23 department of the then axle brake division in 1986. 24 Q During the time that you worked for Eaton, do you 25 recall seeing those kinds of reports? 1 A Prior to that period, it was an asbestos-type 2 lining. 3 Q And prior to 1983, do you know where -- let me ask 4 you this, prior to 1983, did Eaton, the company Eaton, ever 5 manufacture asbestos brakes? 6 A No, not linings. 7 Q Where did Eaton obtain its asbestos linings from 8 prior to 1983, ifyou know? 9 A I would say Abex and Carlisle primarily. 10 Q Do you recall the names of any other companies that 11 they may have purchased asbestos linings from other than Abex 12 and Carl isle prior to 1983? 13 A Raybestos, Manhattan, New Tum was the other one. 14 Q How did they compare to the purchases from Abex and 15 Carlisle in terms of quantity? 16 A I would say much smaller quantities. 17 Q Did Eaton prior to 1983 ever sell a brake product 18 under its name Eaton? Do you understand the question? In 19 other words, did they ever sell a brake lining or a brake shoe 20 with a lining on it under the name Eaton? 21 A Yes. A brake shoe assembled with a lining on it. 22 yes. 23 Q Do you recall when Eaton first sold brake shoes with 24 a lining on it prior to 1983, if you know? 25 A Personal knowledge probably goes back to about 1950. 7 (Pages 22 to 25) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afe7-469e-b187-b081ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE . Page 26 Page 28 1 Q Do you know ifEaton at any time during the time you 1 the same type of operation that I had before except it 2 were there ever had Eaton employees grind brake linings? 2 expanded some of my responsibilities because of the higher pay 3 A As far as I know, and 1 was not directly involved, 3 rate and overall direct responsibility to some of the field 4 this is talking the manufacturing side in the factory, I guess 4 people. 5 I knew of it. T never really experienced that process, you 5 Q Can you be a little more clear? Describe what you 6 know, firsthand. 6 did as the general service manager. You are now in Michigan; 7 Q Based on your knowledge of the company, where was 7 is that correct? 8 that taking place, the actual manufacturing of the brake 8 A Yes. I'm now in Michigan and basically I had 9 linings and the brake shoes? 9 responsibility for setting policy for the field service people 10 A In that particular period oftime? . 10 that basically were stationed around the U.S. and Canada, 11 Q You didn't manufacture brake linings. Let me take 11 working out ofour regional offices. And those people 12 it back. During that time frame, prior to 1983, where within 12 basically called on dealers and fleets, supporting our . 13 Eaton did that process take place? . 13 products through service and training and those types of 14 A Marion, Ohio; Gallatin, Tennessee; Louisville, 14 things. 15 Kentucky. I think that's it. . 15 Q Did you have any overall responsibility for the 16 Q Did there ever come a time when Eaton stopped 16 brake division? 17 allowing its employees to grind its brake linings? 17 A Not for the brake division but the brake division 1B MR. QUICK: Objection to the characterization 18 funded part of our truck components marketing organization. 19 about allow but go ahead and answer. 19 Q How did they do that? Describe the process. 20 A Yes. It was my understanding basically as a process 20 A Basically, each year we agreed on an annual budget 21 improvement, they decided to try to move that operation back 21 for the overall truck components marketing and the three 22 to the suppliers' operation and obtain preground lining 22 product divisions, transmission, axle and brake division 2 3 materials or prefinished. 2 3 contributed to that pool to fund that budget So we 2 4 Q Do you recall when that took place? 2 4 essentially were their representatives in the field. 25 A It was around 1980-'81, somewhere in there. 25 Q During the time that you were there between 1983 and Page 27 Page 29 1 Q It is your understanding at some point, Eaton --I'm 2 trying to say this without being too objectionable -- Eaton 3 stopped the process ofgrinding at its plants and negotiated 4 with the brake manufacturers to pregrind the brakes before 5 those brakes arrived at the Eaton facilities? 6 A Yes. 7 Q And you think that happened some time around 1980? 8 A Late '70s, early '80s. 9 Q Do you know ofany other reasons why Eaton decided 10 to do that other than process improvement? 11 A Well, I think taking a process out of our own 12 facility and putting it back at the source was always 13 something that you looked - ifyou could do that, you would 14 by to do that to by to streamline the process. 15 Q Do you know if any health concerns were included in 16 the reasons why they decided to push this process back to the 17 brake lining suppliers? 18 A I don't know specifically ifthere were. 19 Q It looks like from 1983 to 1991, you are the general 2 0 service manager for Eaton; is that correct? 21 A Yeah, Eaton truck components marketing. 22 Q Where were you when you took over that job? 23 Alt started out -- actually, we moved fiom Cleveland 24 in 1983 and we were in Galesburg, Michigan. That's when I was 2 5 promoted to that position which was essentially the boss of 1 1991, were you familiar with the major OEMs that Eaton did 2 business with? 3 A Yes. 4 Q Can you name for me the OEMs that Eaton did business 5 with during the time frame 1983 to 1991? 6 A Again, Ford Motor. Actually, Volvo probably in that 7 period replaced White Motor. GMs in the medium duty area, 8 Kenworth, Peterbilt, Mack, Crane Carrier, Freightliner. I 9 guess that is it. 10 Q International? 11 A Oh, International, sure. 12 Q Anybody else you can think of? That was pretty good 13 off the top of your head. 14 A At that time, I think some ofthe other ones had 15 gone by the wayside, gone out of business. Those are the 16 major ones. 17 Q Of the group that you just named, were some more 18 significant a customer than others? 19 A Yes. 20 Q Can you name for me the top three or four customers 21 out of tills group that you can recall? 22 A 1 would say through that period, Peterbilt and 23 Kenworth had evolved into major customers of ours. Ford 2 4 started to diminish. Freightliner was also probably one of 2 5 the top three. 8 (Pages 26 to 29) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bed-afe7-469e-b187-b081 ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE . Page 30 Page 32 1 Q So you think Peterbilt, Kenworth and Freightliner 2 were in the top three7 3 A Top three, hm-hmm. 4 Q During this time between 1983 and 1991, did Eaton 5 manufacture its own brake products? 6 A Yes. 7 Q Did they make their own brake linings? 8 A No. 9 Q Again, during this time frame between 1983 and 1991, 10 from what source or sources did Eaton purchase its brake 11 linings from? 12 A Again, primarily Abex, Carlisle and probably to a 13 lesser extent, smaller amounts still probably some Raybestos. 14 That's probably it It started to winnow down. 15 Q During 1983andl991,do you know what the brake 16 linings were made out of that Eaton obtained from Abex, 17 Carlisle and to a lesser degree Raybestos? IB A Through the early part ofthe period, of course they 19 probably would have been asbestos and then evolved into the 20 nonasbestos product 21 Q Were you familiar with the process Eaton went 22 through to move from asbestos to nonasbestos? 23 A Yes, generally, yes. 24 Q I will come back to that Now, between 1991 and 25 1995, you then became the division manager for Eaton truck 1 industry. 2 Q Then it looks like you left Eaton in 1997. Can you 3 recall the reason for leaving Eaton? 4 A 1 retired. 5 Q The next employment looks like as a consultant with 6 Cognis Corporation in Cincinnati, Ohio? 7 A Right. Part-time operation for them representing 8 them as far as business development, sales development and 9 industry feedback. 10 Q What type of business was Cognis in? 11 A Chemical company primarily produces synthetic 12 lubricants for drive train components. 13 Q Over die next couple ofyears, you served as a 14 consultant for several companies, one, Mckay and Company; is 15 that correct? 16 A Yes. 17 Q What did they do? 18 A They do market research work in the trucking 19 industry. 20 Q Then another one, Lubrizol Corporation? 21 A Yes. They are also a chemical company out of 22 Whitcliffe, Ohio and also represent them to the trucking 23 industry, attending industry functions and giving them 24 feedback on the market conditions and also help them in the 25 field testing activities. Page 31 Page 33 1 components marketing; is that correct? 1 Q You have listed from 2006 to present a consultant 2 A Yes. 2 for Eaton Corporation? 3 Q Where were you located at that time? 3 A That's correct. 4 A In Galesburg, Michigan. 4 Q Between 1997 and 2006, did you provide any sort of 5 Q Can you basically tell us what you did as division 5 consulting at all for Eaton? 6 manager for the Eaton truck components marketing division? 6 A No. 7 A I had overall responsibility for all of the 7 Q Can you describe how you were first contacted by 8 operations, including sales, including national accounts for 8 Eaton to act as a consultant? 9 all of the field organization. I had about 150 people 9 A 1 think through the law firm. 10 reporting to me either directly or indirectly. 10 Q Mr. Quick's law firm? 11 Q From 1995 to 1997,1 think it says director of 11 A Yes. 12 . industry and -- 12 Q Was it in relation to an asbestos case or some other 13 A Customer relations. 13 matter? 14 Q For the truck components operation. North America; 14 A Through an asbestos case, not a specific case at 15 is that correct? 15 that time, but it was more general background type of 16 A Yes. 16 information. 17 Q Again, where were you located at that time? 17 Q Do you recall how you were first contacted? 18 A Still in Galesburg. 18 A 1 think it was a phone contact. 19 Q Please describe what your duties were at that time. 19 Q Since being a consultant for Eaton Corporation, 20 A Basically represented the truck components operation 20 aside from this particular case, have you worked on any other 21 to die major industry organizations as far as, like, the 21 asbestos cases? 22 American Trucking Association, the National Tank Truck 22 A One, I guess. 23 Carriers, National Truck Dealers Association and any major 23 Q Do you get paid for your time? 24 fleet accounts. Basically fed or acted as the liaison between 24 A Yes. 25 Eaton and these organizations that represented the trucking 25 Q What is your pay for appearing here today as a 9 (Pages 30 to 33) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afe7-469e-b187-b081 ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE Page 34 Page 36 1 witness? 1 major competitors in the axle business? 2 A S85 per hour. 2 A What was their name --Rockwell. 3 Q Are you asked to write reports? 3 Q Aside from Rockwell and Eaton, were there any other 4 A Not really. I haven't been yet. 4 manufacturers that were competing for the axle business during 5 Q Have you reviewed any materials to help prepare you 5 that time frame? 6 for today's deposition? 6 A Well, Dana was building axles for International at 7 A Yes. 7 that time, but it was like a contract deal primarily. Of 8 Q Can you describe generally, and I don't want to know 8 course, Mack built their own axles during that period of time. 9 anything you talked about with counsel, but describe the 9 That's about it as far as tractor. You know, there were 10 materials you looked at prior to today. 10 obviously some other trailer manufacturers that manufactured 11 A Some of the correspondence that was in discovery in 11 different trailer axles, things like that 12 the past 12 Q Do you know if at any time during the time you 13 Q By correspondence, you mean the kind of exhibits 1 13 worked at Eaton, did Eaton place warnings on any of the brakes 14 have just shown you? 14 they sold? 15. A Yes. 15 A No, not directly on the brake. 16 Q Have you ever had a chance to go to Cleveland to 16 Q How about on the boxes that the brakes were in? 17 examine documents in the Eaton repository? 17 A Not that I'm aware of. 18 A Yes. 18 Q Are you familiar with whether or not Eaton ever 19 Q Do you recall the first time you did that7 19 instituted a safety program for its employees regarding the 20 A A couple months ago. 2 0 handling of asbestos products? 21 Q Describe what you did. Were the documents handed to 21 A I would say that through the period when OSHA became 2 2 you? Or did you have to sit down like we did and go through 2 2 involved in some of the operations that, yes, Eaton complied 2 3 boxes and boxes of stuff? 2 3 with those regulations as they were implemented. 24 A Just like you did. 24 Q Do you know if they specifically, and do you have a 2 5 Q Now, in the course of doing that did you set aside 2 5 specific recollection, ofEaton ever instituting a safety Page 35 Page 37 1 documents that you thought were helpful to your testimony? 2 A No, not really. 3 Q Did you find documents that had your name on it? 4 A Yes. 5 Q I have shown you a couple here. 1 may have a couple 6 more. I will wait for that question and I will come back to 7 that one. 8 Do you know ifyou are actually listed as a 9 witness for Eaton in any other litigation other than possibly 10 tliis one for asbestos specifically? 11 A No. ' 12 MR. QUICK: No, he doesn't know. 13 Q Other than the documents that we have just talked 14 about, do you recall speaking to anybody, aside from counsel, 15 any old employees or anything like that, anybody like that, 16 who you contacted to assist in preparing for your testimony 17 here today? 18 A No. 19 Q During the time frame from 1983 and 1991, can you 2 0 estimate or can you tell me as between Abex and Carlisle who 21 supplied more brake linings to Eaton? 22 A No, I can't really -1 don't know what the split 2 3 was. I think it sort of varied to tell you the truth over the 2 4 years. 25 Q During the time frame 1983 to 1991, who were Eaton's 1 program that was designed for its employees specifically 2 relating to the potential hazards ofbreathing in asbestos 3 dust? 4 A Not that I'm aware of. 5 Q What I want to do is mark this as Exhibit 5. 6 (Exhibit 5, employee training program, was 7 marked for identification.) 8 Q I will show that to counsel. This is a document 9 dated October 1986 titled Employee Training Program for 10 Asbestos, Eaton Corporation, Gallatin, Tennessee. In the 11 upper right-hand comer, a date 10/23/86 and underneath it in 12 print, Roger Reell, R-E-E-L-L. Take a couple minutes and if 13 you need more time, let me know, and 1 have some basic 14 questions about that document. 15 A Okay. 16 Q Have you ever seen that document before today? 17 A Yes, when I was going through them. 18 Q Does that refresh your memory at all as to whether 19 or not Eaton ever developed a safety program regarding 2 0 possible hazards of asbestos? 21 A Yes. I think as I mentioned as far as meeting OSHA 2 2 regulations is concerned, yeah. I'm sure they did that. 23 Q Now, this says October 1986. Are you saying there 2 4 was an earlier employee training program? 25 A No, I'm not aware of one. 10 (Pages 34 to 37) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bed-afe7-469e-b187-b081ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE Page 38 Page 40 1 Q Do you know if, in fact, what you are looking at in 2 that exhibit is the first time Eaton developed such a training 3 program? 4 A 1 don't know that for sure. 5 Q Are you familiar with the potential hazards of 6 asbestos, breathing in asbestos dust? 7 A Sure. 8 Q Do you recall the first time you became aware of 9 what some of the potential hazards of breathing in asbestos 10 dust were? 11 A Approximate dates or years? 12 Q The best you can. 13 A 1 would say probably back in late - mid to late 14 '60s, probably. 15 Q Can you describe for me how you first became aware 16 that there might be a problem for someone breathing in 17 asbestos dust? 18 A I think itjust sort of was an industry awareness 19 that was published in various communications and things like 2 0 that as far as industry magazines and articles, that type of 21 stuff. 22 Q Do you recall ever attending any kind of meeting at 2 3 Eaton prior to 1980 where the subject of the potential hazards 24 of asbestos were discussed by other Eaton employees? 25 A No. 1 A 1 can't specifically say that I was, no. 2 Q Do you recall anyone at Eaton ever advising you that 3 breathing in asbestos dust could possibly cause a cancer 4 called mesothelioma? 5 A No. 6 Q Do you recall anyone at Eaton ever advising you that 7 breathing asbestos dust and smoking cigarettes combined could 8 potentially lead to a greater incidence of lung cancer? 9 A No. 10 Q Did Eaton ever advise its individuals who were 11 potentially handling asbestos not to smoke while handling 12 products that contained asbestos? .. 13 A Not that I'm aware of. 14 Q Do you know during the time frame between -- well, 15 prior to 1983, what was the official position ofEaton 16 regarding the potential hazards of asbestos? 17 A I would say basical Iy it evolved into what OSHA 18 basically presented to us, the way the regulations evolved. 19 We didn't really generate any of our own knowledge ofthe 2 0 problems, per se. 21 Q With respect to this exhibit, Hobbie Exhibit 5, is 22 it your understanding that this was a document that was 2 3 prepared by Eaton for its employees? 2 4 A It looks like it, yes, just by the title, employee 2 5 training program for asbestos and it is specifically aimed at Page 39 Page 41 1 Q Do you recall ever receiving any sort of interoffice 2 correspondence or interoffice memorandum or reports prior to 3 1980 wherein the hazards of breathing in asbestos dust were 4 discussed? 5 A No. 6 Q What is your understanding of the hazards of 7 asbestos? What could possibly happen ifyou breathed enough 8 asbestos dust in? . 9 MR. QUICK: Objection. Go ahead and answer if 10 you know. 11 A It was always my understanding that the hazard was 12 primarily in the raw asbestos, that generally after the brakes 13 had been used, any of the dust was not harmful. But as was 14 always our standard practice, you just never blew dust around 15 to breathe any kind of dust, you know, even if it was road 16 dust that was on the vehicle. So from that standpoint, we 17 never considered the dust on a used brake assembly as 18 something that was hazardous, but we treated it as we did not 19 want to inhale it anyway. 20 Q The name in the upper right-hand comer, 21 Roger Reell, are you familiar with that name? 22 A No, I'm not familiar with that individual. He may 23 be somebody who was at the plant 24 Q Were you ever told by anyone at Eaton that breathing 25 in asbestos dust could cause lung cancer? 1 the Gallatin, Tennessee plant where the brakes were assembled. 2 Q You agree that the information within that document 3 actually lays out the potential hazards of asbestos? 4 MR. QUICK: Objection. He is not qualified to 5 answer that question. You can go ahead and make a guess if 6 you want to. 7 A I would say offhand it looks like it to me. 8 Q In other words, there are statements in there that 9 seems to be informing whoever is reading it that asbestos can 10 cause certain kinds of problems? 11 A Yes. '' . . 12 Q This was intended for Eaton employees, it appears? 13 A At that plant as far as I know. 14 Q You agree with me that, well, let me see, under the 15 section Health Effects Associated with Asbestos Exposure, and 16 I will read the first sentence, second paragraph, it reads, 17 the inhalation of asbestos fibers has been clearly associated 18 with three clinical conditions, asbestosis, mesothelioma and 19 lung cancer. Did I read that correctly? 20 A Looks like it, yes. 21 Q It also says there are many studies that have also 2 2 observed increased gastrointestinal cancer risks, correct? 23 A Yes. 2 4 MR QUICK: I thought this was a discovery 2 5 deposition. Why are you trying to nail him with a document (800) 11 (Pages 38 to 41) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afe7-469e-b187-b081 ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE . Page 42 Page 44 1 that speaks for itself? 2 MR. BARTELS: It does speak for itselfand I 3 will move on. Let me take a break. 4 (A short recess was held.) 5 Q Mr. Hobbie, I will show you again and come over next 6 to you Hobbie Exhibit 3 which is titled TCM National Accounts 7 Monthly Report, September 1985. Is that correct? 8 A Yes. 9 Q It is written out to a J.I. Warren. Do you know who 10 J.I. Warren was? 11 A Yes. 12 Q Who was he? 13 A He was at the time division manager for Eaton truck 14 components marketing. 15 Q It's from J.J. Collins? 16 A He was the national account sales manager. 17 Q And your name appears under the subsection, TCM/NAHQ 18 stafT? 19 A North American headquarters staff. 20 Q At the time of this report, what was your position 21 with Eaton, September of 1985? 22 A 1 was general service manager. 23 Q This is, again, you have already testified this is a 2 4 national accounts monthly report One of the things discussed 25 in the report is under pending orders, it says see attached. 1 number is BAT-0400. There are designations for the account 2 name Hertz Penske? 3 A Correct 4 Q Can you describe what is reflected on this report 5 regarding Hertz Penske. 6 A It would be a pending order for new trucks. The 7 estimate was a thousand units going to GMC, 300 going to IHC, 8 another 300 to IHC, and another 300 potential to IHC for a 9 total of 1900 trucks and basically listing the components that 10 were being specified as the engines. These are medium duty 11 trucks with the Eaton five-speed manual transmission. 12 Q You were referring to GMC? 13 A Right, to GMC. Then it had a 17,500 pound drive 14 axle; brakes, other, probably these were hydraulic brake 15 vehicles which we didn't supply those brakes for that 16 particular size vehicle. . 17 Q What about the other Hertz Penske designations 18 showing the purchases from IHC7 Do you know what IHC is 19 referring to? 20 A International Harvester Corporation. 21 Q Why don't you go through each one. 22 A The next one was for 300 units, engine. 23 Q It says eight class? 24 A Yes, probably a Cummings. I'm guessing at that. It 25 sounds like a Cummings designation. Eaton Fuller Page 43 Page 45 1 Is that correct? 2 A Yes, sir. 3 Q What is a pending order? 4 A It would be where the national account sales 5 representative, one ofhis assigned fleet accounts would have 6 basically said they were going to order X amount oftrucks 7 from X manufacturer and basically the representatives would B report that back so it would give an alert to the Eaton 9 organization that these new orders were coming in. 10 Q Now, attached to this report appears to be a 11 computer-generated list Is that correct? * 12 A Yes. 13 Q And do you know how to read that particular 14 document? 15 A Used to. 16 Q I have a question about a particular page. 17 A Yes, fleet name is over here on the left with 18 account number which is our computerized account number. Then 19 it designated the OEMs that were under consideration or were 2 0 bidding on the order; the engine that was going to be 21 specified; the transmission that was going to be specified; 2 2 the rear axle and the brake that was going to be specified. 23 Q You are familiar with those computer printouts? 24 A Yes. 25 Q l will go to the last page. The Eaton Bates stamp 1 transmission, nine speed, direct transmission; Rockwell SQ 2 1 OOP in a 40,000 pound tandem and it shows either Eaton or 3 Rockwell brakes. I guess they probably were not specific at 4 that time as to which brake they were going to specify. It 5 was going to be left up to the final order. 6 Q Okay. 7 A Next one, another 300 IHCs, Cummings L-10 200 8 horsepower, Eaton Fuller, nine-speed transmission, rear axle, 9 this is a single drive axle, not a tandem, and it is an 10 International RA-57 which is a 23,000 pound axle or a Rockwell 11 R-170 which is another 23,000 pound. 12 And basically on the International, it looked 13 like they were potentially specing the Eaton brake on that 14 with the RA-57 International axle and then the Rockwell brake 15 on the Rockwell drive axle. 16 Then the next group, another 300 IHCs. DT-466 17 is an International diesel engine, it is a medium duty engine. 18 CM552A is a Spicer, Dana Spicer transmission, five-speed. 19 Rear axle, G-175, that was a Dana IH axle, 1 believe, at that 2 0 time. And then brakes, probably neither Eaton or Rockwell 21 would have made the brakes for that. It probably would have 2 2 been hydraulic brakes. 23 Q Thank you. With respect to Hobbie Exhibit 2 we 2 4 previously discussed briefly, can you describe for us what is 2 5 being discussed in regard to that interoffice correspondence? 12 (Pages 42 to 45) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com Scfe6bcd-afe7-469e-b187-b081 ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE . Page 46 Page 48 1 That is addressed to you, is it not? 2 A Yes. Tt is addressed to me by a representative of 3 the axle brake division, Dave Jones. 1 think at the time he 4 was their tech service manager. 5 Q And what is the date on that document? 6 A January 14,1987. 7 Q And what is being discussed in that? 8 A They are asking, it was during the approval period, 9 I guess, certification period, for nonasbestos linings. They 10 were asking us to supply them with some specific fleet 11 recommendations, in other words, fleet users that would be 12 willing to put these new nonasbestos linings on their vehicles 13 and run a field test We were being asked that because we 14 were the -- under me, I had the contact people reporting to me 15 that would contact those fleets. 16 Q What size brake were they talking about there? 17 A I think it looks like a steer axle, 18,000 pound 1B steer axle. It probably at that time would have been a 16 and 19 a halfby five, I think. 20 Q Now, it sounds to me like when Eaton was moving from 21 the use of asbestos to nonasbestos, there had to be this 2 2 process where they were testing the new nonasbestos products; 23 is that correct? 24 A Yes. 25 Q Ts that correct? 1 area they wanted to make sure the product would meet the 2 standards. 3 Q Do you recall when Eaton first started the process 4 oftesting these NAB brake linings, nonasbestos brake linings, 5 before offering them to their OEMs? 6 MR. QUICK: You mean regardless of class? 7 MR. BARTELS: Regardless of class. 8 A 1 would say to the best of my recollection, probably 9 late '70s. 10 Q Do you recall if there were any particular truck 11 models that posed more of a problem with respect to the use of 12 nonasbestos brakes than others, specifically various weight 13 sizes? 14 A 1 would say probably the on-off road type of heavy 15 haul vehicles more so than any of the general highway use 16 vehicles. 17 (Exhibit 6, internal correspondence-4/16/85, 18 was marked for identification.) 19 Q Mr. Hobbie, I'm going to show you what 1 have marked 20 as Hobbie 6 for identification and just ask you to look at it 21 Show counsel. Have you had a chance to look at that document? 22 A Yes. 23 Q Do you recognize what it is, generally? 24 A Yes. 25 Q What is it for the record? Page 47 Page 49 1 A That is correct 2 Q And the purpose for testing those products was to 3 ensure that they met the SAE requirements for safe braking 4 distances, right7 5 A Well, yeah. In that period oftime too, the Federal 6 Motor Vehicle Standards were developed which gave speci lies as 7 far as standards that the brakes had to meet as far as 8 stopping distance and wear, those types of things. 9 Q Prior to the use of nonasbestos, would it be fair to 10 say that all of the brakes were actually spee'ed for use with 11 asbestos-containing brakes? 12 A Yeah, that was the technology at the time. 13 Q So in this process, now this is 1987, am I to 14 understand that as late as 1987, Eaton is still testing . 15 nonasbestos brake linings before they are actually using them 16 because they are still not able to meet the requirements 17 necessary? 18 A Well, yes, but this is a specific request that - 19 the percentage oftrucks that would use an 18,000 pound steer 2 0 axle is very small. It's probably a big probably a dump truck 21 or a mixer. And they are asking for specific operators that 2 2 would be operating in a winter environment. So that is 2 3 uncommon. They probably had the confidence. I'm sure it 2 4 probably would have passed all of the other lab tests, a lot 25 of other tests and other field testing but this was a specific 1 A It is a communication from Tom O'Boyle who was at 2 that time the marketing manager of the axle brake division to 3 his boss George Cotter I thinkjust communicating the position 4 that nonasbestos brake linings were coming to the market and I 5 guess there had been an EPA meeting to discuss that, it sounds 6 like we were not represented at And he was just making his 7 boss aware ofthe situation as it was evolving. 8 Q And this is dated April 16, 1985, correct? 9 A Yes. 10 Q Do you agree based on your knowledge as you were 11 working, during the time you were working with Eaton, do you 12 agree with the statement that the standard friction material 13 found in heavy truck brakes today is asbestos? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Based on your knowledge ofEaton at the time you 16 were working for Eaton, do you agree with this statement 17 written in this particular document, while the industry is 18 progressing toward the elimination of asbestos, there is still ; 19 a great deal ofwork to be done before we can be confident of 2 0 success. : 21 Did I read that correctly? ; 22 A Yes. : 23 Q The next sentence, to eliminate asbestos in the near j 2 4 term would cause unproven and potentially unsafe products to j 25 be put on the nation's highways. Did I read that correctly? j 13 (Pages 46 to 49) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afe7-469e-b187-b081ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE . Page 50 Page 52 1 A Yes. 2 Q Do you agree with those two statements? 3 A Yes. 4 (Exhibit 7, internal correspondence-7/22/85, 5 was marked for identification.) 6 Q I will show you what i have now marked Hobbie 7. 7 Have you had a chance to look at that document? 8 A Yes. 9 Q Could you please generally describe what it is for 10 the record? 11 A It is an information document from one of the axle 12 brake division aftermarket parts people, Dave Schmitt, to 13 another aftermarket parts employee, Perry Johnston. And I 14 think it is basically just communicating all ofthe various 15 lining numbers and where, you know, what customers use them 16 and as an information piece to people that were dealing in the 17 aftermarkets parts area. 18 Q The individuals that prepared the memos, are you 19 familiar with them or were you familiar with them? 20 A Yes. 21. Q And you would agree that apparentlywhat is listed 22 in this document are the specific brake lining mixes that are 2 3 used by the various OEMs? 24 A Yes. 2 5 Q That Eaton did business with at that time? 1 (Exhibit 8, internal correspondence-5/1/85, 2 was marked for identification.) 3 Q I have marked Hobbie 8 for identification. I will 4 show that to Harry. Have you had a chance to look at that 5 exhibit? 6 A Yes. 7 Q Can you generally describe what that document is? 8 A It is a communication primarily to the field people 9 and some other marketing personnel as a document to show the 10 availability of different brake linings in the OEM channel and 11 also in the aftermarket channel just so they have something to 12 refer to, like a reference piece. 13 Q Dated May 1, 1985? 14 A Yes. 15 Q It is from LJ. Valentine, do you know who that was? 16 A Yes. 17 Q Who was he? 18 A He was the axle brake division sales coordinator I 19 bel ieve at the time. 20 Q And what is this? It's an internal correspondence 21 with an attached list; is that correct? 22 A That's correct. 23 Q He describes it in his correspondence as a matrix 2 4 listing the standard lining on Eaton brakes at the OEM level; 25 is that correct? Page 51 Page 53 1 A Yes. 2 Q So in other words, if I wanted to know what 3 International Harvester was using in a certain size brake, 1 4 could go to this list and it would show for me what brake 5 lining mix was actually being used by International in that 6 size brake? 7 A Yes. 8 MR. QUICK: 1 will object to the 9 characterization of the lining mix. All that does is identify 10 parts numbers. It doesn't speak to the lining mix. 11 Q Let me rephrase it then. What it does show is the 12 lining designation that is used by each particular OEM with 13 regard to the size of the brakes, correct? 14 AT would say that is correct, 15 Q So again, without using the word brake lining mix 16 which I think Harry is correct on, if 1 wanted to find out 17 what brake lining Kenworth was using in a 15 by 4 brake, 1 18 could go to this list, look it up, and it would tell me what 19 brake lining was being used? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Thank you. 22 A The idea behind that was to make sure that the parts 2 3 people knew that they were replacing the OEM brake with an OEM 2 4 comparable product 25 Q 1 will mark this as the next exhibit 1 A That's correct 2 Q So how would this list be used? Ifyou turn the 3 page, how would I use this list if 1 were a sales 4 representative for Eaton7 5 A Essentially, when they were contacting a fleet 6 account in this particular case, they would -- if the fleet 7 was specifying what brake lining they wanted, then our 8 representative, if he was being asked can you guys supply that 9 particular lining on an Eaton brake, this would give them the 10 information to say yes or no. 11 Q Now, the last page is a chart titled standard lining 12 used at Gallatin by OEM for 15-inch and 16-and-a-half inch 13 brakes, correct? 14 A Yes. 15 Q What is that referring to? 16 A It is basically the standard linings that a truck 17 manufacturer could specify. In other words, if they came in 18 and ordered either a 15-inch brake or 16-and-a-half-inch brake 19 with any one ofthese linings, those would have been at that 2 0 time the approved lining that would be available to that OEM 21 on the Eaton brake. 22 Q Let me ask you this, here is how I read this chart 2 3 and tell me if I'm incorrect If I was reading this chart, if 24 I wanted to go to, for instance, International Harvester, 2 5 based on how this is titled, I had the impression that 14 {Pages 50 to 53) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afe7-469e-b187-b081ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE . Page 54 Page 56 1 International Harvester had spec'ed out the lining mix 2 industry number showing over in the left-hand column at that 3 time7 4 A Yeah, that was probably their standard. 5 Q So in other words, if I wanted to find out by 6 looking at this chart what International Harvester's standard 7 was at the time of this memo, I would go under International 8 Harvester listed on the right-hand side, go to where it says X 9 and then go back towards the left-hand column and see under 10 that lining mix industry number, apparently it is MM-D39A. Is 11 that correct? 12 A Yes. 13 Q Do you recognize the designation for MM-D39A? 14 A I don't recall specifically. 1 remember hearing 15 about it but not specifically whose it was. 1 suspect it was 16 Carlisle's with the MM designation. 17 Q Right next to the lining mix industry number there 18 is a column that says type, asbestos (A) and asbestos (NA.) 19 A Correct 20 Q I assume A means asbestos-containing? 21 A Yes. 22 Q And NA means nonasbestos7 23 A Yes. 24 Q So you could even tell at that time whether or not 25 an asbestos lining mix was being spec'ed by a particular OEM; I Q What do these documents appear to be? ; 2 A They are -- each axle brake division account manager 3 is listed and then the OEM accounts that he was responsible 4 for are listed on each page. In other words, Craig Arms had 5 those accounts. Ruel Carter had those accounts, and so on. 6 Q Are you familiar with the names ofthe account j 7 managers? ! 8 A Yes. i 9 Q All of them? Why don't you go through each page and 10 just indicate who the account managers are. J 11 A Jack Murray, he was out West, basically in the 12 Northwest area. James Mollard was in the Detroit area. 13 That's one I don't know where. j 14 MR. QUICK: Call out his name. Leonard .! 15 Gawron, G-A-W-R-O-N. 1 16 Q You don't know Mr. Gawron? 17 A Doesn't ring a bell. Mel Ekster, he was located in IB the eastern Pennsylvania area, yes, called on those accounts. 19 Ruel Carter was located down in Kentucky and sort of handled 20 that central area. Penske there is actual Penske at one time 21 owned a trailer manufacturing company. They built tank j 22 trailers. That was an OEM, same company we were talking | 23 about. : 24 And Craig Arms was located at that time 1 25 think in Galesburg I would guess. He had International and j 1 correct? Page 55 1 some ofthe other major accounts. Page 57 ; ! j 2 ALL COUNSEL: Objection to the form. 2 Q As I understand it, would it be fair to say that as j 3 MR. QUICK: Go ahead. 3 of the date these documents were generated, the OEM accounts 4 A Yes, that's correct 4 listed on these are the extent of the OEM accounts Eaton was ? 5 Q So in other words, it looks like Mack spec'ed a 5 doing business with at that time or is it possible there are : 6 nonasbestos lining mix; is that correct? 6 other OEM accounts? 7 A That's correct 7 A There are other OEM accounts. Other than ! 8 Q Thanks. 8 International, I didn't see any -- well, Volvo, he had two 9 (Exhibit 9, OEM accounts documents, was marked 9 major accounts and Kenworth, another major account. 10 for identification.) 10 Freigbtliner, another major account. But the other ones are 11 Q Mr. Hobbie, I'm going to show you what I have marked 11 more of the smaller, primarily trailer manufacturers for Ruel f 12 as Hobbie 9. I will show that to Harry. 12 Carter, These are mainly trailer manufacturers with the ; 13 MR. QUICK: For the record, 1 will note 13 exception of Mack truck. 1 14 apparently Exhibit 9 does not bear a date on any ofthe pages 14 MR. QUICK: When you say these, could you 15 so we can't tell when that was generated. It's Eaton Bates 15 identify what Bates stamp number is on the lower right-hand f 16 stamp 005812 through 5818. 16 comer. | 17 Q You couldn't find any dates on that document either, 17 Q What you are basically looking at the page that has I 18 correct? 18 Mel Ekster as the account manager. Other than the Mack truck ! 19 A Right. 19 designation on those page are trailer companies? 1 20 Q Do you recognize anything on that document that 20 A Yes. ! 21 might help us determine the approximate time the document was 21 Q With repeat to Mr. Gawron's page? 22 generated? 22 A Primarily small OEMs, Crane Carrier, refuse trucks, i 23 A No, not really. I recognize the names ofthe 23 some on-offroad trucks and other specialty type vehicles. ; 24 individual account managers but to specifically recollect what 24 Q And talking about Mr. Mollard? 1 25 year they had those assignments, I couldn't do that. 25 A James Mollard, he had GMC and Pontiac in Canada and ! 15 (Pages 54 to 57) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afe7-469e-t>187-b081ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE . Page 58 Page 60 1 also had the Ford Motor account in Detroit, Dearborn and 1 A Okay. 2 Louisville and Canada. 2 Q Do you recognize that document? 3 Q I think there is one more? 3 A Yes. 4 A Jack Murray had - the OEMs were Western Star which 4 Q Can you describe what it is? 5 was a smaller OEM at that time, Kenworth, Freightliner, 5 A Basically a communication from Jim Clark who was I 6 Peterbilt Volvo had an operation in Ogden, Utah evidently 6 think the chief brake engineer at that time, September 1986. 7 Jack called on. The rest of these are smaller trailer 7 He was I believe, Tom Bruggeman, I believe he was in the 8 manufacturers and crane manufacturer appears specific. And I 8 scheduling department, production scheduling and in a chain 9 would say they are probably a specialty equipment 9 somewhere. I guess he was located in Galesburg. But I think 10 manufacturer. 10 Jim was just alerting people ofthe fact of being carefiil not 11 Q Do you keep in touch with any ofthese individuals? 11 to give the truck manufacturers a specific cutoff deadline on 12 A Jim Mollard, I run across him at some industry 12 the asbestos linings because of some uncertainties of certain 13 function meetings, American Trucking Association, Maintenance 13 specifications being able to be replaced by nonasbestos at 14 Council meetings. He works for -- the last I knew, I think he 14 that time. 15 worked for Abex. Pretty sure it was Abex. 15 Q This is dated September 25,1986? 16 Q He worked for Eaton and then moved on at some point 16 A Right 17 to work for Abex? 17 Q The subject is nonasbestos phase-out, correct? 18 A Yes. 18 A Yes. 19 Q When was the last time you saw him; do you remember? 19 Q It reads, engineering is continuing to investigate 20 A Probably within the last year. 20 consequences of announced deadlines for the stoppage of 21 Q Do you know where he presently resides? 21 asbestos production by Abex and Carlisle. Correct? 22 A In the Detroit area. 22 A Yes. 23 Q Do you know if he is stil I working for Abex? 23 Q Now, specifically, it addresses a list attached to 24 A 1 don't know for sure but I would guess he still is. 24 this memo, correct? 25 Q Is there a way for you to find out Mr. Mollard's 25 A Yes. Page 59 , Page 61 1 address? 2 A Yes. 3 Q How would you do that? 4 A I have a list of members ofthe American Truckers 5 Association maintenance council. 6 Q Do you keep in touch or have you had any contact 7 with any ofthe other account executives listed in the 8 exhibit, for instance, Craig Arms? 9 A No, 1 haven't. 10 MR. BARTELS: I will follow this up, Hany, 11 but I'm going to request that he produce Mr. Mollard's 12 address. 13 MR. QUICK: Do you want to pay him to do it? 14 A It's confidential information, I have to get ATA's 15 permission. 16 Q Oh, you do? 17 A No, just kidding. 18 MR. QUICK: Do it with a letter so 1 can 19 follow up. 20 Q I would like to mark this as the next exhibit 21 (Exhibit 10, internal correspondence-9/25/86, 22 was marked for identification.) 23 MR. QUICK: For those of you on the phone, it 24 looks like Pat is getting near the bottom ofthe stack. 25 Q This isHobbie 10. 1 Q Apparently, the memo reads as follows, based on the 2 attached list, Navistar has requested all current brake 3 assemblies using asbestos linings to be provided (via 4 stockpiling, if necessary) through 1987. 5 A Correct, yes. 6 Q It also talks about applications that have not been 7 currently having nonasbestos materials will require continued 8 supply of asbestos products through 1988, while test programs 9 are completed? 10 A Correct 11 Q Navistar has requested stockpiling for asbestos 12 linings to be used through 1987, correct? 13 ALL COUNSEL: Objection to the form. 14 A That's correct 15 Q It also looks like they are continuing the testing 16 ofnonasbestos materials and they don't anticipate that they 17 will be in a position to replace the nonasbestos materials 18 until some time through 19887 19 A Correct I think he was speaking from his best 20 knowledge of the whole situation, I think. 21 Q And now, attached is what appears to be a pretty 22 detailed listing of Eaton parts used by International 23 Harvester; is that correct? 24 A It looks like it, yes. 25 Q Apparently, these are lists of all current brake 16 (Pages 58 to 61) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afe7-469e-b187-b081 ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE . Page 62 Page 64 1 assemblies using asbestos linings by Navistar7 2 A Yes. 3 Q It looks like on the far left is the Eaton part 4 number used by International, correct? 5 A Yes. 6 Q Right next to it is the lining material column? 7 A Yes. 8 Q That tells you what lining is being used with that 9 particular part number? 10 A Yes. 11 Q Or that may be the part number. Then the brake size 12 is obviously the size oftire brake7 13 A Yes. 14 Q Apparently, these are all of the asbestos brakes 15 used by Harvester in the relevant brake sizes listed? 16 ALL COUNSEL: Objection to the form. 17 A It looks like it I don't know if that is actual 18 usage or if ifs a forecast It could be either one, I guess. 19 Q Ifyou go back to the memo, it says, again I will 20 read it to make sure I'm not trying to put words in anyone's 21 mouth, based on the attached list, Navistar has requested all 22 current brake assemblies using asbestos linings to be provided 23 (via stockpiling, if necessary through 1987. Did I read that 24 correctly? 25 A Yes. 1 distributed it to their dealers. 2 Q It says Eaton Axles and Brakes? 3 A Yes. 4 Q In the top right hand, it seems to be referring 5 specifically to single anchor pin brakes, 15-inch series, 6 16-and-a-half-inch series, correct? 7 A Yes, correct. 8 Q On the second page, there seems to be a chart? 9 A Yes. 10 Q Can you describe what that chart is? 11 A For the two different size brakes, it lists the 12 various lining materials that are available, the friction 13 codes, the ratings, medium, high friction. I think that is 14 the Eaton part number, kit. It shows a shoe only and then 15 shoe and lining assembly, return springs, spring kit. They 16 are calling it a minor kit and major kit which would include 17 other things like bushings and rollers, that type of stuff. 18 Q As I understand it then, someone could go to this 19 chart, an OEM, and find the lining mix industry number they 20 would need for their product and obtain it from Eaton? 21 A Yes. 22 Q This is what is being offered by Eaton, what is 23 displayed on this chart? 24 A I would say so. 25 (Exhibit 12, letter-7/31/87, was marked for Page 63 Page 65 1 Q You would agree it sounds like these are the current 2 brake assemblies using asbestos linings that they want 3 stockpiled through 1987? 4 A Yes. 5 (Exhibit 11, flyer, was marked for 6 identification.) 7 Q Let me show you what's been marked as Hobbie 11. 8 A Okay. 9 Q Do you recognize that exhibit, sir? 10 A Yes. 11 Q Describe what it is. 12 A I would say it's a quick reference sales flyer to be 13 used by OEMs and their dealers to -- as a quick reference of 14 different parts that were available for servicing the brakes. 15 Q Is there a date? 16 A I can't see one on here. 17 Q Pointing to the lower right-hand comer, does that 18 help? 19 A Oh, 1984, no month though. 20 Q You would categorize that as an advertising flyer or 21 something more than that? 22 A Partially advertising. It is an awareness flyer or 23 quick reference flyer. 24 Q Who would that go to? 25 A Probably go to the OEMs and they would have 1 identification.) 2 A Okay. 3 Q Have you had a chance to look at that document? 4 A Yes. 5 Q Describe what that document is, please. 6 A It is a communication from division purchasing 7 manager to Mr. Robert VanWarmer who was -- 1 think he was 8 titled as, like, a brake sales manager at that time. And he's 9 asking that all ofthese OEMs listed on the attachment using 10 the current asbestos specifications and the size brakes and 11 part numbers, basically he is requesting a status update as to 12 how these could be converted over to nonasbestos. 13 Q The date of that letter is dated July 31, 1987, 14 correct? 15 A That is correct. 16 Q Reading the second paragraph, from the list of brake 17 assembly part numbers provided to me by John Lilly, I have 18 compiled a list by customer which shows asbestos applications, 19 correct? 20 A Correct 21 Q The list that he is referring to is the list 22 attached to this piece of correspondence, correct? 23 A Yes. 24 Q If you would go to the list that is attached, it 25 appears that it is listed as appendix A, correct? 17 (Pages 62 to 65) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afe7-469e-b187-b081 ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE . Page 66 Page 68 1 A Yes. 2 Q On the left-hand column, it designates the customer 3 name? 4 A Yes. 5 Q Next to it is the brake size? 6 A Right. 7 Q Then brake P/N7 8 A Part number. 9 Q Is that the Eaton part number? 10 A Yes, of the whole assembly. 11 Q Tire last column is asbestos type? 12 A Right. 13 Q The asbestos type column, it looks like it shows the 14 numerical designation for the lining used7 15 A That is correct 16 Q This appears to be a list compiled by this gentleman 17 Lilly of every OEM's customer's applications of asbestos as of 18 the date of that letter? 19 A Right. They would be open or standing 20 specifications that had not yet been taken out of the system 21 at that time. So there may have been other active nonasbestos 22 at that rime too. I don't know if this last sheet back here 23 refers to nonasbestos. 24 Q You are referring to appendix B? 25 A Yeah, appendix B. 1 A Yes. 2 Q Who do you recognize? 3 A Lcn Podd who probably at that time was a technical 4 service representative at the axle brake division. Richard 5 Lord was a -- I think he was a product engineer in the brake 6 area for the axle brake division. Meyer, I'm not sure, it 7 sounds like a guy maybe in the purchasing department It 8 sounds to me, my interpretation ofthis, would be that 9 Len Podd maybe asked a question, maybe somebody had asked him. 10 okay, when was the cutoffof asbestos-type lining, you know. 11 when was that replaced with the nonasbestos and he was 12 answering l guess with this material. 13 Q For the record, the subject of that internal 14 correspondence is asbestos to nonasbestos phase-out. Correct? 15 A That's correct. 16 Q It is internal correspondence, there is no signature 17 for a signature block signing off? 18 A Right 19 Q It indicates that, attached you will find copies of 20 letters received by Abex and Carlisle. Eaton's only two 21 linings suppliers -- I will read that again. Attached you 22 will find copies of letters received by Abex and Carlisle, 23 Eaton's only two linings suppliers, stating that os of 24 January 1,1988, neither company will provide/sel! any 25 asbestos lining material. Then it continues on, Eaton's Page 67 Page 69 1 Q That is titled? 2 A Nonasbestos lining program status, 787. 3 Q 787, okay. 4 A So evidently these are the ones that had been 5 approved and could start to supersede these open specification 6 part numbers. 7 Q Listed on appendix A? 8 A Right. 1 think that is basically what he was saying 9 is that he wanted an updated list of what was going to happen 10 there. 11 (Exhibit 13, internal correspondence-3/5/90, 12 was marked for identification.) 13 Q Let me show you what's been marked as Hobbie 13. 14 MR. QUICK: I'm going to object to Eaton Bates 15 stamped 002149 dated March 5 of 1990. We have absolutely no 16 clue as to why somebody at Eaton, and we don't even know who 17 it is, maybe the witness knows, would send old letters from 18 Abex and Carlisle to somebody for God knows what reason in 19 1990. So with that, I will let you ask him whatever questions 20 you want to put to him. 21 Q Have you had a chance to look at all ofthose? 22 A Yes. 23 Q 1 will come around behind you again. Do you 24 recognize any ofthe names on tire first page ofthat document 25 entitled internal correspondence? 1 phase-in has been happening since early 1985 with the 2 introduction of the 931-162 material. Have I read that 3 correctly? 4 A Yes. 5 Q What is attached to this is apparently a letter from 6 Motion Control dated August 13, 1986 addressed to Eaton 7 Corporation, correct? 8 A Correct. 9 Q Also attached to this is a letter from Abex to Eaton 10 Corporation dated September 3,1986? 11 A Correct. . 12 Q And also what looks like an OSHA confidentiality 13 policy for regulatory analysis data collection with no 14 apparent date7 15 A Yeah. 16 Q 1 have a couple more documents. Why don't we take a 17 quick break to see if I need to go through the rest of those. 18 1 may be very close to finishing this up. 19 (A short recess was held.) 20 (Exhibit 14, letter-10/14/86, was marked for 21 identification.) 22 Q Mr. Hobbie, I will show you what's been marked as 23 Hobbie 14. Have you had a chance to look at that document? 24 A Yes. 25 Q What is it? 18 (Pages 66 to 69) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afe7-469e-b187-b081 ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE . Page 70 Page 72 1 A It appears that the purchasing -- well, the 1 A Yes. 2 principal buyer for the Eaton axle brake division wrote to -- 2 Q What is it? 3 1 think Mr. Jim Pruneski's title was the president of Abex at 3 A It's a letter to Freightliner, I believe purchasing. 4 the time and alerting him to the situation where the lack of 4 Q What is the date of the letter? 5 availability ofthe nonasbestos for the high friction 5 A The date ofthe letter is October 15, 1986. 6 applications which would be more of a heavy duty nonhighway 6 Q Who is it addressed to? 7 type dump trucks, things like that, those applications. 7 A Mr. Michael Harmon, Freightliner Corporation, 8 And basically, he was telling them that Eaton 8 Portland, Oregon. 9 was in a position that they couldn't supply product with the 9 . Q Who is it from? 10 nonasbestos lining at that time and of course the asbestos 10 A Larry Hopper, Eaton axle and brake division, OEM 11 material was evidently no longer being supplied either. 11 account manager for Eaton to Freightliner. 12 Q The person who wrote the letter, what is his name? 12 Q At the bottom, there is a cc. list? 13 A Thomas Bruggeman. 13 A Yes. 14 Q Did you know Mr. Bruggeman? 14 Q Do you recognize any of the names on the cc. list? 15 A I knew who he was but never had any direct business 15 A A few of them. 16 dealings with him. 16 Q Could you name them and describe who they are? 17 Q Do you recognize any of the c.c. names copied in on 17 A R. Young was Robert Young. He was the axle brake, 18 this correspondence? 18 Eaton axle brake division, OEM sales manager. Tom Furdek was 19 A Yes. 19 an Eaton axle brake engineer. Jim Clark was the chief 2 0 Q Who do you recognize? 20 engineer of the brake product. Jim Tipka was an engineer for 21 AG. Cotter, George Cotter, at the time he was general 21 Freightliner in Charlotte, North Carolina. Ron Salter I don't 22 manager of the axle brake division. Williams Hoenes was 22 know. Rainier Kaiser worked for Freightliner. JohnBohm, 2 3 engineering manager ofthe axle brake division. Bob Ule I 23 B-O-H-M, was an engineer for Freightliner. Curt Doane I don't 2 4 think was purchasing manager at that time. Gopel Singh, 1 2 4 know. Beck Baxter, Portland Freightliner employee, I don't 2 5 think he was actually the chief -- chief brake engineer at the 2 5 know. D. Welker, I don't know. Denise Reeves, I don't know. Page 71 Page 73 1 time. Jim Clark worked for him. He was titled chiefhighway 2 brake engineer. John Lilly was in Gallatin. I think he was 3 sort ofthe in-house sales guy at the Gallatin plant for brake 4 product. 5 Q The high friction concerns that were being raised in 6 this letter, is it just related to these off-road vehicles you 7 are talking about or were there other on-road vehicles that 8 would fall into that high friction category? 9 MR. HAFNER: Can you speak up a little bit? 10 It is hard to understand what you are-saying. 11 A They could have been in some on-road applications 12 like, say, refuse trucks, mixer trucks, but primarily more 13 off-road heavy-duty applications. They wouldn't have been 14 used in a general over the rand highway type hauling 15 application. 16 MR. HAFNER: Is there a date for that exhibit? 17 MR. BARTELS: October 15,1986. October 14, 18 1986 is Hobbie 14, a letter to Mr. J. Pruneski, Abex 19 Corporation, 3001 West Beaver Road, Troy, Michigan from Thomas 2 0 Bruggeman, principal buyer of Eaton. 21 Q I will show this to Ilany. 22 (Exhibit 15, letter-10/15/86, was marked Tor 23 identification.) 24 A Okay. 25 Q Have you had a chance to look at that exhibit? 1 Jay Cowan, I don't know. 2 Q What is your understanding ofwhat the letter was 3 for? 4 A It appears to me they were proposing to Freightliner 5 that because ofthe lack of availability of the approved high 6 friction nonasbestos lining, there were some idea or a concept 7 that they could look at specific applications and maybe be 8 able to fine-tune by making other adjustments to the brake 9 system where they could use the medium friction nonasbestos 10 instead of having to go to asbestos and that would be by maybe 11 using a larger air chamber size or a longer slack adjuster to 12 be able to meet the stopping requirements of that particular 13 vehicle or number of vehicles. So it was sort of a way they 14 could tty to fine-tune the system to get by this lack of a 15 high friction. 16 Q On the first page, the writer mentions stockpiles. 17 Do you see that? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Do you know what he is referring to with respect to 2 0 this mention of stockpiles? 21 MR. QUICK: Objection. You can answer if you 22 know. 23 A I guess T would have to assume that purchasing had 2 4 increased their normal stocking quantities and had some higher 2 5 levels of stock available to get through this interim period. 19 (Pages 70 to 73) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afe7-469e-b187-b081 ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE . Page 74 Page 76 1 Q When you were at Eaton during this time frame, do 2 you recall Eaton making arrangements to stockpile excess 3 asbestos brake linings in anticipation of Carlisle and Abex 4 discontinuing the manufacture of asbestos-containing brakes? 5 A I was not personally aware of that. Although I 6 would say that knowing situations where somebody was going to 7 phase out a product that was supplied to us, that in order to 8 keep from having to shut down production and not be able to 9 ship our products to our customers, that, yeah, that was a 10 practice that would be, you know, performed to meet that 11 standard. 12 Q A couple more, the next exhibit, please. 13 (Exhibit 16, letter-11/21/86, was marked for 14 identification.) . 15 Q 1 will show you what's been marked as Hobbie 16. 1 16 will show that to Harry. 17 A Okay. 18 Q Have you had a chance to look at that document? 19 A Yes. 20 Q Can you describe what it is? 21 A Eaton axle brake purchasing, the principal buyer 2 2 communicating to Mr. Robert Kickel, vice-president, OE sales 2 3 for Motion Control. 24 Q What is the date ofthe letter? 25 A November 21,1986. 1 and not cause a shortage to stop production. 2 Q Again, during the time that you were at Eaton, do 3 you have a recollection of Eaton entering into agreements with 4 either Abex and/or Carlisle to provide materials in a 5 stockpile setting beyond the date that they stopped their 6 production of asbestos products? 7 A No. 1 was not specifically aware of that, again 8 going back to what standard practices would have been to 9 ensure that there was a flow, a continuous flow for production 10 to not shut down the plants. 11 (Exhibit 17, letter-12/19/86, was marked for 12 identification.) 13 Q 1 will show you Hobbie 17.1 will give that to 14 Harry. 15 A Okay. 16 Q What is that document? 17 A It's from Tom Bruggeman, the purchasing guy at axle 18 brake division, to Milt Barnhart who was at the time December 19 19, 1986 the Eaton axle brake account manager for 2 0 International Harvester. This looks to me like he is 21 referring to this stockpile situation and that Navistar, 2 2 International Harvester, had signed a supply contract with 2 3 Rockwell, the brake competitor, and there was concern that the 2 4 production usage by International of the Eaton brake may drop 2 5 off enough that this whole stockpile thing would just be Page 75 Page 77 1 Q Who is it from specifically? 2 A From Thomas Bruggeman, principal buyer, Eaton axle 3 brake division. 4 Q There is a cc. listed at the bottom? 5 A Yes. 6 Q Do you recognize any of the names? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Could you outline who you know? 9 A Tom Sheikh was the sales representative from Motion 10 Control to Eaton. George Cotter, general manager of the axle 11 brake division. Fred Kovalik I think at the time was probably 12 materials control manager or operations manager, I forget 13 which, for Eaton. Bill Hoenes, again engineering manager, 14 axle brake. Robert Hie, purchasing manager, axle brake. 15 Gopel Singh, he was overall chief brake engineer, brake 16 products. 17 Dennis Bryant I think was a schedu ler out of 18 the Henderson, Kentucky plant; Jim Clark, chief engineer 19 axle -- brake product; John Lilly, internal sales. Larry 2 0 Singewalt was a sales coordinator at the axle brake division. 21 Q What is your understanding of what is being asked of 2 2 Motion Control in that Ietter7 2 3 A It appears to me they were being asked to meet their 2 4 original commitment they had made about supplying enough 2 5 material to meet the needs, i.e., stockpiling some material 1 sitting there not used. That's what I would say it is. 2 Q At any time while you were with Eaton during this 3 time frame, between '84 and '88-89 time frame, did you ever 4 become aware of Eaton basically being stuck with excess 5 asbestos materials? 6 A No. 1 would say no, at least from my perspective in 7 my function, when we switched over to nonasbestos, like for 8 field applications, we were never trying to sell asbestos as a 9 replacement or anything like that. We were basically going to 10 nonasbestos and that was what we did. We didn't drag asbestos 11 out of the woodwork or anything. 12 Q I understand what you are saying. Do you know if 13 prior to Eaton going completely nonasbestos if they had any 14 leftover asbestos materials? 15 A 1 don't know that for sure. There may have been but 16 it wasn't like they had a fire sale or anything that I was 17 aware ofto get rid of it or anything like that. I don't know 18 how it was disposed of or what happened to it. 19 MR. BARTELS: Mr. Hobbie, thank you very much. 2 0 MR QUICK: He will read. 21 MR. BARTELS: Anybody else have any questions? 22 BY MR HAFNER: 23 Q Bob Hafner, I have a few follow-ups. Mr. Hobbie, I 24 do not have the document in front of me, but do you have 2 5 Exhibit 8 there you can look at? 20 (Pages 74 to 77) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afe7469e-b187-b081ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE . Page 78 . Page 80 1 A I have it. 1 cover everything. But like we talked about before, die high 2 Q Can you please identify that document for me? 2 friction applications which were more for the on-off road type 3 A The subject is brake lining availability dated 3 real heavy applications, that may have been the case at this 4 May 1, 1985. It is an internal Eaton correspondence. Do you 4 time. But for over-the-road highway type applications, there 5 want me to read it to you? 5 were nonasbestos that did meet the Federal Motor Vehicle 6 Q Not the whole tiling. In summary fashion, if you 6 safety specifications, I believe. 7 can, describe die document to me. 7 Q For a class eight, for instance? 8 A It was a communication from LJ. Valentine who was a 8 A Yes. 9 sales coordinator to our field organization relating to lining 9 Q When did that material first become available? 10 availability at various OEMs. 10 A Oh, boy, I know tiiey were working on it in die early 11 Q My recollection is, and if I am wrong or your 11 '80s. 12 recollection is different, please tell me, when Mr. Bartels 12 Q I understand they were working on it in the early 13 was asking you questions about this document, there was some 13 `80s. Do you know when it first went into production such 14 discussion as to whether International was specifying that it 14 that you were able to supply it to one of your customers? 15 be supplied with brakes that contained asbestos? 15 A I think we sold brakes with nonasbestos lining 16 A Yes. 16 approved to Mack Truck as early as '80 or '81. 17 Q Do you recall that testimony? 17 Q What type of vehicles were those linings going into 18 A Yes. 18 to your knowledge? 19 Q And did International, to your knowledge, ever 19 A I guess they were -- 2 0 actually specify tiiat it wanted to be supplied with brakes 20 MR. QUICK: Don't guess. 21 that contained asbestos? 21 A I can't specify. 1 don't know for sure. 22 A I don't know die answer to tiiat. But according to 22 Q Well, do you have any knowledge or information as to 23 the matrix diat was attached to this memo, it indicates that 2 3 why Mack would be using nonasbestos-containing brakes in 2 4 International only was offering an asbestos material at this 24 certain of its trucks as early as 1980 or 1981 and 25 time. 2 5 International would not have been doing the same thing? Page 79 Page 81 1 Q By offering, do you mean to its customers it was 2 offering an asbestos-containing brake material at that time? 3 A Yes. 4 Q And do you know what types of trucks tiiose brakes 5 referred to in that document were going on? 6 A Primarily class eight. 7 Q Class eight being the heaviest? 8 A Yes. 9 Q Trucks that weighed the most? 10 A Yes. 11 Q Do you have any knowledge or information that 12 International ever indicated in any way that if it was 13 possible to provide it with nonasbestos-containing brake 14 material that would still meet performance specifications that 15 it did not want that type of brake material? Ifyou don't 16 understand that question, let me know. 17 A I think I know what you are saying. And no, I don't 10 have -- 1 don't have any recollection ofthat. 19 Q Am I correct that in the time frame we are talking 2 0 about here that as far as heavy trucks were concerned, class 21 eight trucks were concerned, there was not a 2 2 nonasbestos-containing brake material available that would 2 3 meet the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety standard performance 2 4 specifications? 25 A I don't know that to be a fact I think it didn't 1 A No. I don't really know. It is probably a 2 marketing decision. I don't know. 3 Q Is it also possible that it was because of the 4 difference - is it possible, Mr. Hobbie, that the reason Mack 5 was able to use nonasbestos-containing brake material in 6 certain of its vehicles was because those vehicles differed in 7 design or weight classi fication or some other performance 8 specification versus International vehicles? 9 A I would say it's possible. I don't know that for 10 sure, but it is possible. 11 Q Give me one second. I'm just reviewing my notes. 12 Okay? 13 A Sure. 14 Q I'm not going to be able to refer you to the 15 specific exhibit, but I think it was actually more than one 16 that referenced the stockpiling as you were calling it of 17 asbestos-containing brake linings in the '87 time frame? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Do you recall being asked questions about that 1 20 earlier? 21 A Oh, yes, yes. 22 Q And one ofthose documents referenced International 2 3 making such a request? 24 A Yes. 25 Q Asking you to ensure that you were able to continue 21 (Pages 78 to 81) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afe7-469e-b187-b081ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE Page 82 Page 84 1 to supply them with this material I think through the end of 2 '87; is that correct? 3 A Sounds like it, yes. 4 Q Was that request submitted by International 5 different in any way from any request you got from any other 6 OEM customers? 7 A I'm going to say yes. 8 Q How did it differ? 9 A I don't think we had that request from any other 10 OEMs. 11 Q If you exclude International for the moment, do you 12 know when the last OEM customer would have purchased an 13 asbestos-containing brake lining on the axle or assembly 14 purchased from Eaton? 15 A No, I don't know that for sure. 16 Q Do you know when the last asbestos-containing brake 17 lining sold to anyone was by Eaton? 18 A No, 1 don't know that. 19 Q Do you have any knowledge why International would 2 0 have made a request to stockpile or build up inventory of 21 brake material that contained asbestos versus any other OEM 22 manufacturer? 23 A No. 1 guess -- 2 4 MR. QUICK: Don't guess. 25 A Okay, I'm not going to guess. I don't know. 1 became involved with the asbestos-free brake linings that 2 gradually other customers brought more and more of their 3 requests to the nonnsbestos frame? 4 MR. BARTELS: Objection to the form. 5 MR. QUICK: Go ahead. You can answer. 6 A Yes. T would say that it was probably, just 7 thinking about it, application specific as to that evolution. 8 Q Maybe I can rephrase that a little bit I'm 9 actually not crazy enough to think that you are going to 10 remember the specific applications and customers this many 11 years later. But obviously, you saw those letters indicating 12 that both my client, Carlisle, and Abex had announced that 13 they were ending the production of the asbestos materials, in 14 the case of Carlisle by the end of 1986. 15 Are you with me so far? 16 A Yes. . 17 Q Now, between the time that Mack first began using 18 the asbestos-free materials in the earlier part of the '80s 19 and when your company became aware that Carlisle and Abex were 2 0 ending the asbestos materials, had there been a gradual and 21 increasing transition of applications over to the nonasbestos 2 2 material or did Eaton, for example, in 1986 find itself in an 2 3 immense bind because the vast majority oftheir axles no 2 4 longer had any or didn't have any nonasbestos materials for 25 them? Page 83 Page 85 1 Q Is it possible that Eaton had received the same 2 requests from other OEM manufacturers to your knowledge? 3 A Not to my knowledge. 4 Q And do you have any knowledge why International 5 would have made such a request of Eaton? 6 A No. 7 MR. HAFNER: That's ail I have. Thank you. 8 MR. QUICK: Anybody else? 9 BY MR. MAGUIRE: 10 Q This is Joe Maguire. I represent Carlisle in this. 11 Basically, 1 just have a couple of questions. One ofthe 12 things you said was that your recollection was that Eaton 13 began working with the asbestos-ftee linings for trucks 14 sometime either in the late 1970s or early '80s. Do I 15 understand that correctly? 16 A Yes. 17 Q Just a minute ago, you explained as to Mr. Hafiier 18 that in your recollection that the first ofEaton's customers, 19 truck makers, to go with the nonasbestos materials for brake 2 0 linings was Mack and that you believed that was somewhere 21 early in 1980 or 1981; is that correct? 22 A That's correct 23 Q In your recol lection, d id you understand the 2 4 experience with Mack to be isolated or was it your 2 5 understanding is that as time progressed from when Mack first 1 MR. BARTELS: Object to the form. 2 A That was I would call it a process of working with 3 the lining suppliers trying to - basically doing the testing, 4 both lab dynamometer testing and field testing and all of that 5 to come up with the materials that met the wide range of 6 applications that were in the customer base. So yeah, it was 7 an evolutionary thing that led up to that period of time. 8 And there were changes too in the requirements 9 I think along that period of time that caused it to be more 10 urgent, as it was. 11 Q Now, you did say that in this time frame of 1986 and 12 1987 based on the documents you have been asked about, there 13 apparently were applications for the off-highway type 14 vehicles, I think you called them, the high friction 15 applications where apparently asbestos-free formulations had 16 not gone through the entire approval process. Is my 17 understanding correct? 18 A Yes, I believe that is correct. 19 Q Now, in that same time frame, was it your 2 0 recollection that the majority ofon-highway or over-the-road 21 type applications had been transitioned to nonasbestos 22 materials? 23 A Yes, I would say that is correct. 2 4 MR. MAGUIRE: Sir, that is all of the 2 5 questions I have. Thank you very much. (800) 22 (Pages 82 to 85) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afe7-469e-b187-b0B1ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE . Page 86 Page 88 1 MR. HAFNER: Anyone else have questions before 2 I ask some more follow ups? 3 BY MR. HAFNER: 4 Q Mr. 1-lobbie, and Patrick or Harry i fyou want to help 5 him, there was a document marked during Mr. Urban's deposition 6 on February 7 of 2007, Exhibit 5. It is a letter from A.G. 7 Beier, dated November 22,1983, Eaton Bates number 144145. 8 Was that marked as an exhibit already? 9 MR. BARTELS: 1 don't know. 10 MR. QUICK: Not in Roger's deposition. 11 Q Do you have a copy of that with you, Patrick, by any 12 chance? 13 MR. BARTELS: Maybe. 14 MR. QUICK: This is Harry, 1 don't have a copy 15 of it . 16 MR. BARTELS: Yes, we have it. Urban 5. 17 Q I can either just leave it marked as Urban 5 or do 18 you want to remark it as the next exhibit ifyou have an extra 19 copy. It is a copy so we can do that. 20 (Exhibit 18, letter-11/22/83, was marked for 21 identification.) 22 Q Take a moment to review that letter. 23 A Harry is looking at it right now. I'm ready. I 24 read it 25 Q Have you seen that document before today7 1 A Yes. 2 Q Were you aware of problems being encountered with 3 the nonasbestos material being tested for performance in the 4 brakes of these trucks? 5 A No. 6 Q Are you saying there were no problems encountered or 7 you were not aware of any? 8 A I'm not aware of any. 9 Q Were you aware back in the time frame -- let me ask 10 you this, in the November of 1983, was there nonasbestos brake 11 material available for use to your knowledge with a class six. 12 seven or eight vehicle? 13 A Yes, for Mack, that's the one I'm aware of where it 14 was available in production. 15 Q Were you aware of any performance problems being 16 encountered with that material? 17 A No. IB Q Do you have any knowledge why if that material was 19 available for Mack and its trucks why International would not 20 have used the same type of material in its vehicles? 21 A I would say because ofthe testing that Mr. Beier 22 refers to, the extensive testing they had to do to qualify it. 23 certify it, to meet Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. 24 In fact, he made a comment he didn't want another 121 debacle 25 so he wanted to be sure it met all the standards required. Page 87 Page 89 1 A Yeah, probably went through it when I reviewed some 2 of the disclosure stuff. 3 Q Well, when you say that, so we are a clear, do you 4 have a specific recollection of having seen that document now 5 that you're reading it? Ifyou could just tell me who 6 Mr. O'Boyle was? 7 A At this time, he was the marketing manager for the B axle brake division. 9 Q Mr. Hoenes? 10 A Mr. Bill Hoenes was the engineering manager.for tire 11 axle brake division. ' 12 Q Do you recall being shown or becoming aware ofthis 13 communication from International when it was sent back in 14 1983? 15 A No. 16 Q Were you at all aware of any testing programs being 17 implemented by International back in this time frame about 18 evaluating nonasbestos brake material to use in its vehicles? 19 A Offhand I would say I was aware ofsome testing that 20 was done at Snyder National and I don't know what other 21 testing. That is one that I sort of recollect that because 22 that was a major national account of International's at the 23 time and Eaton's. 24 . Q Snyder was the operator of a truck fleet that 25 transported commercial goods over the road, correct? 1 Q What is your understanding of the 121 debacle? 2 A The antilock brake, first go-round of the antilock 3 brake systems. I assume that's what he is referring to. 4 Q Did Mack conduct any testing to evaluate the 5 performance of the nonasbestos brake material before putting 6 it into its vehicles it was manufacturing? 7 A I would assume so, but I don't know specifics of any 8 tests that they did conduct, but I assume they probably did or 9 took the suppliers' test results. 10 Q Page two of Mr. Beier's letter, second to last 11 paragraph, where he makes a statement, second to last 12 sentence, the elimination of asbestos from lining materials 13 will occur and we all need to expedite our efforts to make 14 this conversion. 15 Are you aware of any situation where 16 International for some reason in your opinion was not 17 expediting its efforts to try to put nonasbestos brake 18 material into its vehicles? 19 A No, I am not. 20 MR. HAFNER: I'm not sure ifthis was marked 21 as an exhibit already. I don't recall it being referenced. 22 It is an interoffice correspondence. It was Urban deposition 23 Exhibit 7, Eaton interoffice correspondence dated Februaiy 13, 24 1984 to a variety of different people from an L. Barnhart 25 Does that sound familiar? ; 23 (Pages 86 to 89) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afe7-469e-b187-b081ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE Page 90 Page 92 1 MR. BARTELS: Urban 77 1 customers such as International? 2 MR HAFNER: Urban 7. Was that previously 2 A Yes, for instance, Walther, his accounts were 3 marked today or not? 3 Kenworth, essentially. 4 MR BARTELS: No. 4 Q How about Mr. VanWarmer? 5 (Exhibit 19, inter-office 5 A 1 don't know if he was a sales manager, like a brake 6 correspondence-2/13/84, was marked.) 6 product line sales manager or something like that in that 7 Q For the record, while we are waiting, I want to say 7 area. 8 Eaton Corporation Bates 324, that may not be correct. Is that 8 Q And I just asked you about Mr. VanWanner, right? 9 your Bates number or Eaton's Bates number7 9 A Yes. 10 MR QUICK: Eaton's Bates number is in the 10 Q Mr. Valentine? 11 lower right-hand comer and it should be 018743. 11 A Sales coordinator at that time. 12 MR HAFNER: Patrick, is that your Bates 12 Q We have talked about Mr. Hoenes before, correct? 13 number in the center bottom ofthe page? 13 A Engineering manager. 14 MR BARTELS: Yes. 14 Q What was your position in this time frame of 15 MR HAFNER: For the record, it is P-EAT-0432. 15 February 19847 16 A Okay. 16 A '84,1 would have been general service manager for 17 Q Mr. Hobbie, have you seen that document before 18 beginning your deposition today? 17 Eaton truck components marketing. 18 Q I think the name came up before, Mr. Barnhart in 19 A I think in reviewing the disclosures. I didn't see 19 this time frame. Who was he? 20 it back in 1984 but when I went through the files, yeah. 20 A Axle brake division sales account manager for 21 Q I think we covered who Mr. O'Boyle was, did we not? 21 International Harvester, Navistar. 22 A Yes. 22 Q In the first sentence, IH engineering brake group 23 Q Mr. Singh? 24 A He was the axle brake -1 think he was chief 23 has advised that both Carlisle and Abex are withdrawing all 24 current testing on nonasbestos lining. The reasons given are 25 research and development engineer for the brake product at 25 incurring in -- it probably should say incurred -- the Page 91 Page 93 1 that time. 2 Q Mr. Pipik? 3 A Pipik at that time would have been the axle brake 4 tech service manager. 5 Q Mr. Billian7 6 A Probably at that time probably a sales coordinator. 7 Q Mr. Lawrence7 8 A Global product manager for the brake product for 9 axle brake division. 10 Q Mr. Welser? 11 A Probably sales coordinator, axle brake division. 12 Q Mr. Young? 13 A Axle brake division, sales manager. 14 Q I missed the last part. 15 A Sales manager. 16 Q Mr. Hopper? 17 A Sales account manager for axle brake. 18 Q Mr. O'Connor? 19 A Probably sales coordinator. 20 Q Mr. Zalar? 21 A Sales coordinator. 22 Q Mr. Walther? 23 A Sales account manager for axle brake division. 24 Q When you are referring to sales, whether account 25 manager or manager, you are talking about sales by Eaton to 1 problems incurring in one, excessive wear compared to 2 asbestos; two, drum problems; three, composition of 3 materials - very sporadic. Were you familiar with that 4 situation as referenced in that memo? 5 A No, not at the time. 1 think this is probably based 6 on lab dynamometer testing. That's what I'm guessing. To my 7 knowledge, that didn't occur on any ofthe field tests 8 applications that were out there. 9 Q And whose lab dynamometer testing are you referring 10 to? 11 A I don't know. It could be the lining suppliers or 12 it could have been Rockwell, Eaton, I don't know. 13 Q The next sentence reads, based on this input, IH has 14 temporarily stopped their NAB program until such time, and it 15 seems to be missing a word, the lining suppliers can develop a 16 nonasbestos lining that meets or exceeds the current asbestos 17 lining being produced today. 18 Were you aware oflH in this period stopping 19 its nonasbestos brake program because ofthe issues addressed 20 in this memo? 21 A No, I was not. 22 Q Were you aware of any other OEM manufacturers 23 besides International at any point stopping their efforts to 24 go to nonasbestos brakes because of problems encountered with 25 the nonasbestos material being supplied? 24 (Pages 90 to 93) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afe7-4B9e-b187-b081ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE . Page 94 Page 96 1 A No. 2 MR. HAFNER: 1 believe that is all of Ihe 3 questions I have. 4 BY MR. BARTELS: 5 Q 1 have some Follow-up. Mr. Hobbie, L wanted to 6 clarify some testimony you just discussed. It is not your 7 testimony that by 1986, the majority of all trucks on the road 8 had nonasbestos brakes? 9 A No. 10 Q In fact, ifyou go back over some of the documents, 11 and 1 will tty to do this as quickly as I can, Hobbie 6 which 12 was the document dated April 16,1985 from T.W. O'Boyle where 13 he in the memo indicates that the standard friction material 14 found in heavy truck brakes today is asbestos? 15 A Yes. 16 Q You agreed with that at least as of the date of this 17 memo? 18 A Yes. 19 Q You still agree with it? 20 A Correct 21 Q In fact, in Hobbie Exhibit 10, which was a memo 2 2 dated September 25, 1986 from Jim Clark, now he is referring 23 to Navistar, he is actually mentioning that Navistar has 2 4 requested all current brake assemblies using asbestos linings 25 to be provided via stockpiling if necessary through 1987. 1 low friction asbestos product because they are not convinced 2 that the current nonasbestos product is equal in all 3 performance aspects. Did I read that correctly? 4 A Yes. 5 Q So obviously at least through 1986, there are still 6 major OEMs based on this information that are still insisting 7 on using asbestos products until the nonasbestos products can 8 be worked out, correct? 9 ALL COUNSEL: Objection to the form. 10 Q Let me rephrase it. It appears from this letter 11 that there are still as of October 1986, certain major OEMs 12 continuing to use low friction asbestos products because they 13 are not convinced that the current nonasbestos product is 14 equal in all performance aspects, correct?. 15 ALL COUNSEL: Objection to the form. 16 A Right. 17 Q The reason I'm bringing this back up is at one point 18 it sounded like you were suggesting that by 1986, the trucking 19 industry in general had from 1985 to 1986 miraculously evolved 2 0 into straight nonasbestos products? 21 A No. 22 Q You agree with me on that? 23 A 1 agree with you on that I think what actually 2 4 transpired, it had started to reach that point, even though 2 5 that sort of raises a flag that there were still issues going Page 95 Page 97 1 So it would appear that at least Navistar 2 through 1987 wasn'tjust limiting it to high friction brakes 3 but all brakes they used with asbestos? 4 ALL COUNSEL: Object to the form of the 5 question. You are reading a whole lot more into thaL 6 Q Let me ask you again. Here is what it says, based 7 on the attached list, Navistar has requested all current brake 8 assemblies using asbestos linings to be provided via 9 stockpiling, if necessary, through 1987. 1 have read that 10 correctly: is that right? 11 A Yes. 12 Q You would agree that Navistar at least is not just 13 limiting these to these off-road heavy-duty frictions? 14 A Basically, that's what that says. 15 Q They are saying we want all brake assemblies that we 16 use with asbestos to keep going through at least 1987? 17 ALL COUNSEL: Objection to the form. 18 A Yes. 19 MR. HAFNER: What was the exhibit number of 20 the last exhibit number you referred to? 21 MR. BARTELS: 1 think it was 10. 22 Q Exhibit 14, dated October 14,1986, this is a letter 2 3 from Mr. Bruggcman to Abex, a guy named Mr. Pruneski wherein 2 4 he says, even as of that date, October 14, 1986,1 will read 25 the one paragraph, certain major OEMs still continue to use 1 on, the industry was starting to accept the fact that 2 nonasbestos was going to happen and it would come and they 3 weren't going to flip a switch necessarily because of all of 4 the testing that had to be connected. It was a whole new 5 technology. 6 Q In other words, there was still testing not only 7 Eaton was performing but Rockwell and other competitors to 8 ensure that the new nonasbestos products coming on the market 9 were at least equal to the asbestos products that they were 10 replacing? 11 A Exactly, had to be. 12 ALL COUNSEL: 1 will object to the form of the 13 question. The witness has already explained. 14 MR. BARTELS: You can object to the form. You 15 can't discuss why. I have your objection on the record. 16 MR. HAFNER: I think you are putting words in 17 the witness's mouth. 18 MR. BARTELS: He seems to understand my 19 questions and he is answering them. So 1 appreciate what you 20 are saying. Thank you. 21 Q Again, just to cl arify because of something I 2 2 thought you said earlier on, it is not your position that by 2 3 1986, the majority ofthe trucks on the road were using 2 4 nonasbestos products? 25 A That's correct. 25 (Pages 94 to 97) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afe7-469e-b187-b081ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE . Page 98 Page 100 1 MR. BARTELS: Thank you. No further 1 International is saying or the internal memo is saying is as 2 questions. 2 far as International is concerned, on this list with these 3 MR. QUICK: Anybody else? 3 parts numbers attached to this memo, certain of them have 4 BY MR. HAFNER: 4 asterisks next to them. For those parts, we have to stockpile 5 Q Can you please pull up or somebody give Mr. Hobbie 5 or keep available asbestos-containing linings for those parts. 6 Exhibit 10 for me. And do you have that Bates number by any 6 Is that correct? 7 chance? 7 A I believe that's correct. 8 MR QUICK: It's 012366 through 371. B Q But as far as the ones that do not have asterisks to 9 Q Let me see if I can find it here. I don't think I 9 them, all of these are okay to use nonasbestos materials; is 10 have it readily handable. Okay. Mr. Hobbie, I apologize for 10 that correct? 11asking you to do this again. What is the date of that letter7 11 A Sounds like it, yes, 1 think that's what it is 12 A September 25, 1986. 12 saying. 13 Q Is it an interoffice memorandum? 13 Q Now, looking at those part numbers with the 14 A Yes. 14 asterisks next to them, is it possible for you to tell, and 15 Q And who is it from? 15 again I don't have it so I apologize for asking you to do 16 A Jim Clark. 16 this, the ones with the asterisks, do they appear to be 17 Q To who7 17 relating to class six, seven, eight trucks, bigger trucks 18 A Tom Bruggeman. 18 versus smaller trucks? Can you make that distinction based on 19 Q It is a multi-page document? 19 the information on those pages? 20 A Single page memo with attachments listing a bunch of 20 A They all look like class eights. There are some 18 21 Eaton part numbers, brake assembles, lining material, brake 21 by 7s which is definitely heavy-duty. 16 and a half by 5s, 22 size. Then there is quantities after that. 2 2 that is heavy-duty steer. No medium duty that I can see. 2 3 Q Can you read the memo, the first page to me, the 2 3 They are all on the heavy-duty side. 2 4 contents. 24 Q When you say that, you mean that the medium duty 25 A Engineering is continuing to investigate 2 5 trucks reflected on tire five-page list. International is Page 99 Page 101 1 consequences of announced deadlines for the stoppage of 2 asbestos production by Abex and Carlisle. Based on the 3 attached list, Navistar has requested all current brake 4 assemblies using asbestos linings to be provided via 5 stockpiling, if necessary, through 1987. 6 Any applications not currently having approved 7 nonasbestos materials will require continued supply of 8 asbestos products through 1988 while test programs are 9 completed. (These brakes are indicated by an asterisk on the 10 list, the attached list) 11 Q The difficulty I'm having because I can't easily lay 12 hands on the document, is it a multi-page list attached to 13 that first page? 14 A Yes. 15 Q How many pages are there? 16 A Five. 17 Q If I understand it correctly, some of the items on 18 those five pages have asterisks near them or next to them? 19 A Yes. 20 Q If I understand the way you read the memo to me, the 21 ones with the asterisks next to them are the ones that do not 2 2 have a nonasbestos brake material already approved for that 2 3 part number; is that correct? 24 A Yes, 1 believe that is correct. 25 Q So we are clear, am I correct that what 1 buying from you brake material that does not have asbestos in 2 it? 3 A It looks like there is quite a few 16 and a half by 4 7s that don't have asterisks by them so. . . 5 Q Unfortunately, I don't have the document in front of 6 me, what I'm trying to get at, does it appear that the ones 7 that have the asterisks next to them are your bigger vehicles? 8 A Yes. Generally, and I think it is the higher 9 friction material. 10 Q And they would be --would all of them be air brake 11 systems, can you tell? 12 A Yes. 13 Q Are there any, the part numbers that do not have 14 asterisks, are any of them hydraulic? 15 A No. 16 Q It was exclusively air brake systems? 17 A Yes. 18 MR. HAFNER: That's it 19 MR. QUICK: Anybody else? 2 0 MR. BARTELS: 1 would like the court reporter 21 to send us both an original with die exhibit as well as an 22 E-transcript. 23 2 4 (Continued on following page) 25 26 (Pages 98 to 101) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afe7-469e-b187-b081ecda30a3 ROGER HOBBIE . Page 102 1 2 3 MR. HAFNER: Do the same for me. 4 MR. QUICK: Me too. 5 6 7 8 ROGER HOBBIE 9 (Witness excused.) 10 (Deposition concluded at 1:06 p.m.) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ' Page 103 1 CERTIFICATION 2 ****+ 3 4 BE IT KNOWN that 1, David G. Christy, took the 5 foregoing deposition at the time and place slated in the 6 caption hereto; that the witness, Roger Hobbie, before 7 testifying was first duly sworn to state the truth; that the 8 testimony ofsaid witness was reduced to writing under my 9 direction; and that the foregoing 102 pages contain a full, 10 true and accurate transcription ofmy notes ofsaid 11 deposition. 12 1 FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not ofcounsel nor attorney 13 for either of any ofthe parties to said cause or otherwise 14 interested in the event thereof; and that I am not related to 15 either or any ofthe parties to said action. 16 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto subscribed my name 17 this 26th day ofJune 2007. IB 19 20 21 David G. Christy 22 23 2 4 Certified Court Reporter, #50061 25 a 3 s a l 4 z :: l l : .] i : ) 1 | 1 ! ; i ;i ; 3 | | i .S 3 > 27 (Pages 102 to 103) (800) MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS 325-3376 www.MerrillCorp.com 5cfe6bcd-afe7-469e-b187-b081ecda30a3