Document RJqv9XnoK3Xweez7GE186QkRV

VOLUME II UNITED STATED DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS C.A. No. 89-30201-F ALICE L. WARREN, ADMINISTRATRIX OF THE ESTATE OF JOHN H. WARREN, DECEASED VS . THE DOW CHEMICAL COMPANY, THE B.F. GOODRICH COMPANY, WHITTAKER DEVELOPMENT CO. (FORMERLY GREAT AMERICAN CHEMICAL CORPORATION), UNION CARBIDE COMPANY, AMERICAN CYANAMID CORPORATION, AND CONTINENTAL OIL COMPANY CONTINUED DEPOSITION OF: RUTH G. GRIFFITH, taken before Kathleen M. Houghton, Notary Public, Stenographer, pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, at the offices of Robinson, Donovan, Madden & Barry, P.C., 1500 Main Street, Springfield, Massachusetts on November 7, 1990, commencing at 10:00 a.m. APPEARANCES: (PLEASE SEE PAGE 2) Kathleen M. Houghton Shorthand Reporter PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES Certified Shorthand Reporters Certificate of Proficiency Certificate of Merit COMPUTER ASSISTED TRANSCRIPTION 95 State Street Springfield, MA 01103 Tel. (413) 733-4078 P. O. Box 402 Pittsfield, MA 01202 Tel. (413) 499-2231 RSV0022733 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 2 1 APPEARANCES: 2 ROBINSON, DONOVAN, MADDEN & BARRY, P. C , 1500 Main Street, Springfield, Massachusetts 01115, 3 representing the Plaintiff. BY: KEITH A. MINOFF, ESQUIRE 4 MORRISON, MAHONEY & MILLER, 250 Summer Street, 5 Boston, Massachusetts 02210, representing the Defendant B.G. Goodrich Company. 6 BY: JOSEPH E. RENDINI, ESQUIRE 7 NUTTER, McCLENNON & FISH, One International Place, Boston, Massachusetts 02110, representing the 8 Defendants Conoco, Union Carbide and Dow Chemical. 9 BY: SHARON BURGER, ESQUIRE 10 HAH 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 RSV0022734 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II WITNESS Ruth G. Griffith INDEX DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT 5* 41** 136* RE-CROSS 140** * Randini ** Burger *** Minoff EXHIBITS DESCRIPTION PAGE ***** RSV0022735 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 4 1 STIPULATIONS 2 3 It is agreed by and between the parties 4' that all objections, except as- to the form of the 5 question, are reserved to be raised at the time of 6 trial for the first time. 7 8 It is further agreed by and between the 9 parties that all motions to strike unresponsive 10 answers are also reserved to be raised at the time of 11 trial for the first time. 12 13 It is further agreed that the deponent 14 will read and sign the deposition and that the 15 sealing of the said deposition will be waived. 16 17 It is further agreed by and between the 18 parties that notification to all parties of the 19 receipt of the original deposition transcript is also 20 hereby waived. 21 22 ***** 23 &SV0022736 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 5 1 Ruth G. Griffith, the Deponent having been 2 previously sworn, deposes and says as follows: 3 CONTINUED DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR, RENDINI 4 Q. Ms. Griffith, this is a continuation of 5 yo ur deposi tion which was first taken -- which began 6 on May 9th, 1990. Do you understand yourself s till 7 to be under oath? 8 A. Yes . 9 0. Okay. 10 MR. MINOFF: Same stipulations 11 obviously as last time. 12 MR. RENDINI: Obviously. 13 Q. (By Mr. Rendini) Ms. Griffith, you said a 14 few minutes ago there was something you wanted to 15 clear up in terms of answers to -- from the previous 16 deposition? 17 A. Yes, I would like to correct one of my 18 responses. It appears on page 128 of the transcript, 19 9th line. Your question begins on the 9th line. The 20 question that begins: Have you ever made any claims 21 against Monsanto? 22 Q. Yes. Would you like to add something to 23 your answer or change something? RSV0022737 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 6 1 A. No. I would like to add something to my 2 answer and I would like to clarify. You asked the 3 question in two different ways and the operative 4 word, not -- as a layman for me is "claims." 5 "Have you ever made any claims against 6 Monsanto as a result of unsafe working conditions or 7 conditions which you feel threatened employee 8 health?" 9 And when I asked: "You mean personally, 10 my own health, or someone else's," you rephrased the 11 question: "You personally -- your health or someone 12 else's health -- have you ever made a formal or 13 informal complaint to Monsanto?" 14 Now, my answer: "My own health, no," is 15 in response to the question phrased using the word 16 "claims," which means to me a legal, you know, 17 something that's serious, written and way beyond the 18 word "complaint." That might not be a legal 19 distinction but to me the word "claims" means 20 something different. My response: "My own health, 21 no," is in response to the claims. 22 The correct answer, my corrected answer to 23 the second question: "Have you ever made a formal or RSV0022738 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 7 1 informal complaint to Monsanto?" My own health, yes. 2 I've made complaints to Monsanto since -- from 1943 3 to 1982 on a regular basis. 4 Q. Are those complaints or were those 5 complaints all of the same nature or did they cover a 6 variety of different topics? 7 A. This involves health, safety and health. 8 Q. Okay. But did they -- Within the topic of 9 health, did they cover -- was it about one subject or 10 many different subjects? 11 A. No, mostly about inadequate ventilation 12 but involved several different chemicals and working 13 conditions. 14 Q. Can you describe these complaints or do 15 you remember any of them specifically? 16 A. I can describe the earlier one because 17 I'll never forget it. It was a long period where I 18 had headaches every day, which must have been in '44 19 or very close to that. I worked for many hours every 20 day on an open bench with ether and acetone, very 21 involved gravimetric tests. 22 I started going to the plant hospital to 23 get, not aspirin but whatever they were doling out RSV0022739 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 8 1 down there. And I think around the second week I saw 2 the doctor and he said, Well, if you have continual 3 headaches you should go to a doctor to take care of 4 it. And I was real irritated and I explained to him 5 exactly and I.could find this in my medical 6 record. The only reason I got a headache was -- is 7 because of the job I was on and the job was 8 responsible for my headache. I didn't have any 9 headache outside of work and when I went out to get 10 fresh air even in a lab it disappeared. I said, If 11 you could improve the ventilation I wouldn't have 12 headaches. And then he asked me what I was working 13 on. The next day that operation was put inside of a 14 hood and my headaches disappeared. 15 Q. Did you have any complaints with regard to 16 health subsequent to that? 17 A. On the same problem of headaches? 18 Q. Well, on any health complaint, trying to 19 run through them sequentially? 20 A. Oh, yes. You see, one of the problems, we 21 were so well trained, we were spooked about the 22 dangers of everything we were working with, 23 principally, the fire hazards; however, not health RSV0022740 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 9 1 hazards, fire hazards. But most of us believed if we 2 got a headache or we got sick to our stomachs when we 3 were working with something that was the cause. We 4 associated one with the other whether it was true or E not. 6 So they hammered into us the dangers and 7 then when we confronted the dangers and suggested a 8 way of getting away from it, sometimes it was 9 resented but it was usually changed. If a remedy was 10 simple it was changed. It just needed pointing out 11 at the time. I can remember one about vinyl chloride 12 that occurred to me as I was reading this yesterday, 13 again, about ventilation. 14 As I mentioned before, we had to share a 15 downdraft hood with the men or the analyst who was 16 working on the vinyl chloride monomer and because 17 some of the excess monomer was poured on the screen, 18 the screen became clogged and up through towards the 19 motor became clogged through the ductwork. So the 20 draft was negligible. And other analysts who had to 21 work on that screen say with benzene or chloroform or 22 some other heavier-than-air solvents complained 23 because the hood wasn't operating right. So the RSV0022741 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 10 hood -- After a while the hood got cleaned out, had to been cleaned out periodically or sometimes a cloth put over the screen would obstruct it. I can remember complaining about that several times. Q. When was that? A. It was in 3 Lab so that puts it before ' 68 . Q. Can you describe for me the configuration of the hood that you've been talking about? ,.A. It was a bench-top hood. It was designed for heavier-than-air solvents, fumes. The working area was a large screen. I think it was a sheet metal frame and you worked on the hood and the benzene or chloroform, whatever it was, from the beakers would be pulled down through the screen and from the exhaust they had extrusion through for out, up to the top of the ductwork. It would be pulled out up through the ductwork into the -- into the Indian Orchard air. Q. So the screen, in other words, formed your work surface? A. Yes. Q. And the fumes were sucked out through the RSV0022742 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 11 1 screen? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And therefore away from you? 4 A. Yes. And it was about -- I don't know -5 5 feet or 5 feet long. 6 Q. Okay. Now, you said before when you were 7 talking about the previous complaint that they 8 hammered the dangers of these various chemicals into 9 you? 10 A. ,Oh, yes, all the time. 11 Q. Who were you referring to? 12 A. Each department had safety meetings and I 13 think the lab was probably more conscious than any 14 other group because they worked with everything, not 15 only chemicals that were used in the plant but 16 re-agents, you know, that labs use. And it was so 17 easy to have an accident mixing them or something so 18 the lab really spent a lot of time trying to educate 19 the analyst who worked there. 20 Q. Now, aside from the one instance that 21 you've just described to me about vinyl chloride 22 monomer, did you ever make any other health 23 complaints that involved vinyl chloride monomer? RSV0022743 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME XI 12 `___ I 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A, I may have when I got to 10 Lab, the new lab, when we started doing monomer testing there because the basement was so hot before they got the air conditioning going the second year. But it was -- it would have been a general -- I would have to think about that. I probably -- We used to have a safety log where people logged in suggestions or complaints about specific safety hazards. In fact, I started it. Q Where w,as that log kept? A. In the 10 Lab. Q. How recently? A. Well, it started in '67 or so and went just a couple years. It didn't last very long. Q Do you know if that log was maintained anywhere ? A. No. Q. Do you recall any other complaints either by yourself or people that you knew complaining of headache or nausea from exposure to chemicals? A. . You mean outside the lab? Q. Anywhere really. A. Yes . RSV0022744 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 13 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Do yourecall anyof those incidents 4 specifically? 5 A. I recallbeing told of several occasions 6 where men had passed out inside the vinyl chloride 7 kettles. I remember one area mechanic, Bill Cook 8 Sr., who pulled out Jean Duprey, D-U-P-R-E-Y. That 9 was in the early fifties I think. 10 And then several other stories. I heard 11 most of these stories from Harold Williams who took 12 care of the safety problems over in that area. He 13 became the chief steward and he handled a lot of 14 safety complaints. 15 Q. So your knowledge about the difficulties 16 in the vinyl chloride kettles is from conversations 17 with Mr. Williams? 18 A. No, it's -- I heard that long before I 19 heard that from Harold. I heard it from his son I 20 think. Bill Cook, Jr. 21 Q. Okay. Bill Cook, Jr., is that his name? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And, of course, his father is the Bill RSV0022745 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 14 Cook, Sr. that you referred to before? A. Yes. Bill Cook, Sr. is no longer living. His son is retired. Q* living? Do you know where the Jr. Mr. Cook is -now A. He lives in I believe Belchertown. His last Christmas card was from Belchertown. Q. You wouldn't happen to have an address for him, would you? A. No. It's a box number I think. Q. alive? What about Mr, Williams, is he still A. No, he isn't. Q Did you hear any stories about difficulties with the kettles or men fainting in the kettles from anyone else? A. It seems to me every time you talked with somebody who worked in that area you heard something about someone being affected by it. Q. Who were the individuals that you knew that worked in that area? A. Let's see. I have to look up a list of people who worked there. RSV0022746 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 15 1 Q. Okay, If you -2 A. {Interposing) Harold Murray was one of 3 them, Paul Cullinan, Vito Martea, M-A-R-T-E-A. Most 4 of them dead. Almost all of them are dead. Are you 5 looking for someone who is living? 6 Q. If there is anyone living. 7 MR. MINOFF: What area are we 8 talking about specifically? 9 THE WITNESS: Carl Rehm, R-E-H-M. 10 MR. RENDINI: Speaking about people 11 who worked in the kettles. 12 THE WITNESS: He was foreman of the 13 kettles. 14 Q. (By Mr. Rendini) Did you ever inspect the 15 kettles yourself? 16 A. Not really. The only time I remember 17 going into one of the kettles was -- was I think 92 18 and I just went in to the first floor. 19 I've seen kettles. If you've seen one 20 you've seen them all. And I saw the inside of 92 21 Building on TV. That's the first time I had ever 22 seen it. They had a news segment or a weekly series 23 on Monsanto and they included some shots inside. One RSV0022747 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 1 of them was inside 92 Building. It was the first 2 time I had ever been inside where the kettles are. 3 Q. Do you remember when that was, the 4 television -- 5 A. I'd have to look it up. '79 maybe, I just 6 don't have a handle on that right date. 7 Q. Was this a local news report? 8 A. It was Channel 40. What are the call 9 letters? I can't remember the call letters. 10 MR. MINOFF: GGB? { 11 THE WITNESS: GGB, yes. 12 By the way, 92 Building was used for two 13 entirely different processes. 14 Q. (By Mr. Rendini) Okay. I was just -- 15 Thank you for reminding me. It was a question I was 16 thinking of asking. 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. I know we spoke in the last section about 19 the buildings you had seen and where the kettles were 20 located. Could you just refresh my memory, what 21 buildings were the kettles located? 22 A. The first one was 86 Building, then 88, 84 23 and 92. COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION RSV0022748 PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 17 X Q. Now, during your employment were they 2 always located in all four buildings or did it change 3 over time? 4 A. It exchanged. 5 Q. How did it change? 6 A. Well, in the case of 86, which is the 7 first one, half of the building was polystyrene and 8 the other half was polychloride. And after they had 9 an explosion they hurried up building a separate 10 building for vinyl chloride, which was 88 Building. / 11 Q. So when was the explosion if you recall? 12 A. '51 or '53, I forget which. 13 Q. Then Building 88 was built? 14 A. Yes, yes. I think they were about to 15 build it anyway or they were in the process but they 16 certainly hurried it up after that. 17 Q. So was Building 88 devoted entirely to the 18 VCM process? 19 A. Yes. And the others were also until PVC 20 closed. Then they converted 92 Building to what they 21 call barrier resins. 22 Q. So Building 88 came on board around 1953 23 or so? RSV0022749 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 18 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Around there I would say. Q. What about Buildings 84 and 92, when did they start the VCM process in those buildings? A. I would have to look that up. I don't know. Around that same time I would say. 92 probably was the -- No, it was 84. 92 was the last one I guess but it wasn't too many years after that. Q. I believe we've mentioned Mr. Rehm's name before but let me ask you this: Do you know where he's located now? A. He lives in Holyoke. Q. Do you know his address? A. No, I don't. Q. Do you remember any other complaints of any symptoms, be it fainting or headache or nausea, involving VCM? MR. MINOFF: From whom? she knows. MR. RENDINI: Well, from anyone that MR. MINOFF: Complaints made to her or to someone else? MR. RENDINI: Okay. Well, let me -- MR. MINOFF: A little vague. RSV0022750 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 19 1 Q. (By Mr. Rendini) I mean the question to 2 be a broad one but the question is: Do you recall 3 ever hearing or ever being involved in an incident in 4 which there was a complaint of-headache or nausea or 5 some other physical symptom because of physical 6 exposure to VCM other than the ones, of course, that 7 you've already described? 8 A. Well, I have my own. I got terrible 9 headaches when I was using the full face shield when 10 it was so hot in the basement. But all I did was 11 take it off and go away for a while and came back. 12 But I Every time I met somebody when I 13 was working in Saflex, which was 99 Building. During 14 my last ten years at Monsanto the building had 15 nothing to do with PVC but a lot of men who used to 16 work at PVC were transferred or bumped into jobs in 17 99 Building so we had practically half of the 18 population in 99 were ex-PVC workers. And it seems 19 every time we talked about working conditions, 20 whether it was 85 Building in processing or in the 21 kettles, somebody had a story about either somebody 22 passing out, getting high or getting sick. I mean 23 this was very -- this was common. I don't know RSV0022751 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II I 20 whether they were repeating the same single incident but it seemed to me, getting it all at once, that it was a common occurrence. Q. Do you recall any specific person who told you such a story? A. I'd have to think about it. I'd have to -- I can't recall. Some of the men I probably didn't even know their names; we met in the smoking rooms or something. Offhand, I can't picture any of them specifically. Q. During your employment at Monsanto did you ever make any complaints about health affects caused by exposure to any chemical other than vinyl chloride monomer? A. Probably. Q. Do you remember such a complaint? A. I can remember just one but there were probably many of them that made me ill. Q. Okay. What's the one you remember? A. It was cresylic acid, C-R-E-S-Y-L-I-C, I guess. My spelling isn't too good. I was running a distillation range on it and it went dry. And as I assembled -- disassembled COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION RSV0022752 PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 21 1 the apparatus I got a whiff of the fumes that were 2 left, just the fumes that were left on the bottom, 3 and it made my very ill. I had to go to the nurse's. 4 Q. When was that? 5 A. I don't I'd have to look it up. It's 6 in my medical record. A lot of the safety reports, 7 if you can remember them and you did report them, you 8 were supposed to report everything to the medical. 9 You weren't -r- Now, even a headache, nausea, burn, 10 cut, anything. In fact, I know a man who got fired 11 because he didn't go. So that's a pretty good way of 12 checking updates. Offhand, I can't tell you. It was 13 in '67 maybe, around there. 14 Q. It was in the sixties sometime? 15 A. Yes, late sixties. 16 Q. Were you yourself exposed to any other 17 chemicals that caused you to have some sort of 18 painful or unpleasant symptom? 19 A. Many times, many chemicals. 20 Q. Do you recall any other specific instance? 21 A. DMF I remember. That's the last one I 22 remember, dimethyl formamide. That's the chemical I 23 was told was fetal toxic. RSV0022753 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 22 Q. When did you come into contact with the DMF? A. The first time in 10 Lab before '70 but the last time in Saflex Lab. Q. What is the particular incident to which you're referring? A. I was use using it. We use to clean out Fenske pipettes. It's a glass apparatus used to pressure viscosities. And it spilled on the bench and I got sick cleaning it up. Q. Are you talking about nauseous? A. Mm-hmm. Q. About when did that occur? A. Seventies, late seventies I would say. Q. Do you recall any other such instances of exposure that involved you personally? A. There are so many. You ask anyone who worked in the lab and there are just --.'I couldn't possibly recall all. Q. Just the ones that actually stand out? A. That is what I mean, yes. Q. Are there any other -- Strike that. Are there any others that stand out in RSV0022754 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 23 1 your mind? If there aren't, that's fine. 2 A. Well, I can remember quite a few but I 3 can't remember the name of the chemical. It was a 4 mercaptan (phonetic) something. I can't remember the 5 right name. 6 Q. All right. Do you ever remember any other 7 incidents that you witnessed involving someone else 8 in which there was a chemical exposure leading to 9 some physical symptom or sickness? 10 A. Yes. A man on a shift I was working on 11 passed out from fumes on, I think it was what they 12 call a bubble extruder. 13 Q. Do you recall what chemical was involved? 14 A. It was fumes from the PVC. No, wait. Was 15 it PVC then? No, it was styrene then, styrene of 16 some type. 17 Q. Do you remember who the man was? 18 A. His last name was Pittsley, 19 P-I-T-T-S-L-E-Y, Ralph. 20 Q. And do you remember what his job was? 21 A. He was same as mine, lab analyst. 22 Q. Do you recall where this incident 23 occurred? RSV0022755 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 24 A. It was the basement of 10 Lab. It was at night. Q. What was Mr. Pittsley doing at the time? A . I'm not positive but I think he was extruding polystyrene in what they call a bubble extruder or some type of extruder. Either that or he was extruding PVC. They did both down there. Q. But you don't know which it was? A . It was a very small lab-.type extruder. I just can't remember which product he was working on. He normally worked on PVC but they had changed over. Q. Do you remember approximately what year this was? A. Well, I was in 10 Lab so it had to be from '65 to '70 Q Do you remember what happened to Mr. Pittsley; was he given medical attention? A. I think they called an ambulance finally. In fact, I complained about the length of time it ( took to get him attention. Q. . Was anything done to change the conditions -- change working conditions because of 1 that incident? COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION RSV0022756 PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 25 1 A. I think there were some, yes. I think 2 there was some action. 3 Q. Do you know what that action consisted of? 4 A. I think they did. a study. I can't 5 remember specifically. I guess he probably would 6 remember. I don't. 7 Q. Do you recall any other incidents that you 8 witnessed? 9 A. I can remember suggesting that people 10 go -- We were always told to go for a walk. I 11 remember that if we were getting woozy, I can 12 remember suggesting that to a couple of people who 13 looked like they were pale or gray or something but I 14 can't remember saying anything specific. 15 Q. Do you recall what caused you to say that 16 or what led up to their being pale and gray? 17 A. Usually it involved heat of some kind, if 18 I recall, sometime in the summertime where the 19 beginning of the fumes -- Well, the fumes were higher 20 in the summertime and I seemed to associate that. 21 Q. Do you recall any of these, instances 22 specifically? 23 A. Not offhand. If I thought about it long RSV0022757 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 26 enough I probably could. Q. All right. Ms, Griffith, it would seem so from some of the previous answers but let me ask you the question: Have you read through the transcript of the previous session of this deposition? A Yes, I did yesterday. Q And do you recall the exhibits we referred to in the previous deposition? A Mm-hmm. ,Q I'm going to call your attention again to Exhibit Number 5 and especially the xerox pages'of your notebook. Do you recall that? A. Yes, I do. Q. All right. MS. BURGER: You are referring to the 13th page of that exhibit. MR. RENDINI: Is this the 13th page, okay. Q. (By Mr. Rendini) Referring now to the 13th page of that exhibit in which on the left-hand side of the page, those are some notes that we've spoken about before, correct? A. Yes, we have. RSV0022758 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 27 1 Q* And those are your notes, are they not? 2 A . Yes . 3 MR. MINOFF: Just hold on for a 4 second. 5 MR. RENDINI: Sure. (Pause) 6 Q. (By Mr. Rendini) Now, we have here, as we 7 discussed in the previous session, several names such 8 as Dow and Conco and what's the third name there? 9 A. Goodrich. 10 Q. , Okay. We have several names followed by 11 numbers, correct? 12 A. Mm-hmm. 13 Q. And just so that it's very clear on the 14 record, could you tell me again where you got the 15 information that you recorded in your notes here? 16 A. That information came from individual data 17 sheets in the East Control Lab that had been filled 18 out by an analyst testing vinyl chloride monomer. 19 Q. And when did you go to those data sheets? 20 A. Well, it must have been '81. 21 Q. And the data sheets were kept where? 22 A. In the East Control Lab which was then in 23 10 Building. RSV0022759 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 28 Q. And were they kept in any sort of volume or box or how were they kept? A. At that time they had changed the format to large, you know, regular letter-size pages that were pink, from the small data books that were about that size. (Indicating) Q. The size of the "Faith Hope & $5,000" book? A. Yes, It seems to me at the time I started testing we were using these data sheets and then I did get this information from the data sheet, '68. Q. So the information that's on page 13 of Exhibit 5 is from a data sheet? A. Yes, whether it. was in that form or on the pink sheet, yes. Q. And those data sheets were kept in the East Lab? A. Yes . Q. And this was in 1981 that you went and you made these notes? A. . Yes. Q. Now, as I understand it, the data sheets themselves were drawn from tags that were put on the RSV0022760 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME IX 29 1 bombs ? 2 A. Yes, yes. The identification that was on 3 the data sheet was from the tag. 4 Q. And the data sheets were created by the 5 analysts, lab analysts? 6 A. Yes . 7 Q. And at one time you were a lab analyst. 8 correct? 9 A. Yes . 10 Q. But do you have any way of knowing that 11 the notes you took from the data sheets that you took 12 from 1981 were taken from a data sheet that you had 13 created? 14 A. I don't think any of them were other than 15 the first entry which was "Earliest RGG VCM test in 16 file, April 26, 1968 or '69." 17 Q And that refers to, what is an "RGG"? 18 A. That is Ruth Gladys Griffith. 19 Q. I see. So that refers to a -20 A. (Interposing) That was the earliest one I 21 could find on the data sheets. 22 Q. So that was a data sheet that you yourself 23 had created? RSV0022761 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 30 A. Ye s . Q. The data sheet in which you got the information that you recorded as "Dow, Conco and Goodrich"? A. Mm-hmm. Q. Were those data sheets that you yourself had created? A. No, it was not my writing. Q. So those are drawn from different data sheets also? A. Yes, they were all different data sheets. Q. Arid data sheets that you had not created? A. None of mine. Q. What was your understanding of what the words -- of what the word "Dow" meant? A. The supplier. Q- What was the function of a data sheet? A. To identify the sample and the test results. Q. And the function of the -- Strike that. And the information of the data sheet came from the tags that were affixed to the bombs, correct? RSV0022762 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 31 A. Yes. Q. Who prepared the tags on the bombs? A. The tank farm operator. Q. Okay. So no lab analyst prepared the tags ? A. No . Q. Was it the normal practice to have the name of the supplier on the tag? A. Not in my experience, until later when Texas City no longer supplied Monsanto in Springfield. ~ Q. Do you recall when that was? A. Well, itwas around the time I was testing vinyl chloride monomer. Q. So at around the time you were testing Texas City stopped supplying? A. It might have stopped before, I just wasn't that knowledgeable about it. Q. Mm-hmm. But at the time you were testing did you test any VCM that came from Texas City? A. I -- Well, you mean, all I. would know -- It. wasn't marked Texas City. All I would know is if it was an MONX or, as I said before, a GATX, I RSV0022763 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II T7 assumed was Monsanto. Q. Now, the letters you are referring to -A. (Interposing) They were tank car designations. Q. Tank car designations? A. On the tag, yes. Q. But why did you assume that they came from Monsanto if they had those letter designations? A. MON sounded like Monsanto and GATX was common enough that I thought so I just really didn't *f think about it before I was told that Monsanto'was looking for other suppliers and we might get other suppliers to test. Q. Do you remember when you were told that? A. It had to be the time that I was actually in that group on 3 to 11 so it had to be after '68 or after '67, somewhere around there when I went back on shifts. Q. So am I correct in interpreting what you've told me that at sometime toward 1968 Monsanto began, at least from what you understood, to have different suppliers? MR. MINOFF: Objection. RSV0022764 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 33 1 MR. RENDINI: Strike that question. 2 That's a bad question. 3 Q. (By Mr. Rendini) Did you understand 4 starting sometime around 1968 that Monsanto was 5 looking for other suppliers? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And you understood that because of 8 conversations you had had with people in the plant? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Was it ever the function of the tags to 11 identify the suppliers? 12 A. I don't think specifically in the lab. We 13 just had to have some identification for the sample 14 we received. The supplier designation was up to the 15 tank farm operator or his boss, how they wanted it 16 identified. 17 Q. So there was no reason why the lab had to 18 know who the supplier was? 19 A. No, none whatsoever. 20 Q. Was it unusual to see a supplier 21 designated on a tag? 22 A. In my past experience it was but I didn't 23 know at the time until I talked with Joe Zalewa that RSV0022765 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME XI 34 he was aware of other suppliers many years before that. Q. When did you have that conversation with Mr. Zalewa? A. This was after I retired during the Cullinan case I talked with him. Q. At the time you were testing vinyl chloride monomer in the lab during that time period when testing was part of your function, was it ever the function of the tags to designate suppliers? A. Just tank car number. Q. Now, with respect to the data sheets that you drew the information from here in your notes and on Exhibit 5, there were words that you understood as indicating suppliers, correct? A. Definitely, yes. I wouldn't have known that tank car was Dow, for instance, unless it was on the data sheet. Q. do you? Now, you no longer have those data sheets, A. . No. Q. All you have is the notes? A. Yes . RSV0022766 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 35 1 Q. When you went back to extract this 2 information from those data sheets did it surprise 3 you to see the name "Dow"? 4 A. It pleased me because it confirmed what I 5 had been told. 6 Q. Was it -- Did you find it unusual that you 7 saw something that to you meant a supplier? 8 A. Not for that time, no. 9 Q. At what time -10 A. (Interposing) It would have been unusual 11 I think before that time. 12 Q. I see. So and what was the time when you 13 saw -- when the data sheet with the word "Dow" on it 14 was created? 15 A. Well, it was -- I associated it probably 16 wrongly with the period when Monsanto was using other 17 suppliers of looking for other suppliers. 18 Q. Why do you say "probably wrongly"? 19 A. Well, I just assumed that when I was told 20 it had something to do with the designation on the 21 tag for the first time. 22 Q. Okay. Looking at your notes here, is 23 there a date next to the number that's next to the RSV0022767 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 36 word "Dow"? A. Yes . Q. da te ? What is that date; where did you get that A. The date is the date the analyst had put on the data sheet, that was the date he tested the sample. Q Is that the same for all these entries here, that the date came from the data sheet? A. Yes . Q in 1968 At the time of these dates, which are all to look MS. BURGER: Objection. You ought They aren't all 1968. MR. RENDINI: Okay. THE WITNESS: The confusion about the first entry, as I recollect, '68 or '69 is because on the data sheet my eight sometimes look like nine. I'm almost positive that's an eight but it really could be confused with a nine on the data sheet that I copied it from. - Q. (By Mr. Rendini) Let's refer to the entries which begin, "Dow, Conco, Goodrich." Are you RSY0022768 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 37 1 certain that the dates that you recorded were all 2 1968 for those? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Referring to those three entries, at the 5 time of those three entries was it the usual practice 6 for such a name as Dow, Conco or Goodrich to be 7 recorded on the data sheets? 8 A. I don't honestly -- I can't answer that 9 question because I didn't -- I would just notice the 10 ones probably I was testing. 11 Q. Did you -- When you went back to look at 12 the data sheets did you notice if it was the usual 13 practice for the data sheets generated in 1968 to 14 have such a name? 15 A. Well, as I was saying, in my experience it 16 would have been unusual but then I didn't -- I didn't 17 find any that I had tested that were identified this 18 way. 19 Q. Now, just a few minutes ago you referred 20 to Mr. Joe Zalewa? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And after you retired you had certain 23 questions for Mr. Zalewa? RSV0022769 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 38 1 A. Yes, I did. 2 Q. And you talked about suppliers of VCM to 3 the Indian Orchard plant? 4 A. Yes, I did. 5 Q. And what did he tell you in those 6 conversations ? 7 A. Well, he remembered several suppliers not 8 just from the time period that I was talking about, 9 the '68 period but he remembered them all through the 10 time he was testing them and he identified them by 11 their tank car designation. 12 Q. What suppliers did he remember? 13 A. He remembered Goodrich, Union Carbide and 14 I don't remember that he mentioned Dow. I'd have to 15 look up my notes but those two he remembered. And I 16 asked him if he could tell me when he remembered 17 testing them and he said almost as far back as he had 18 been testing raw materials, which would be in the 19 1950's. 20 Q, All right. Did you have your conversation 21 with Mr.. Zalewa before or after you created the notes 22 here in Exhibit 13? (sic) 23 A. Oh, a long, long time after. It didn't RSV0022770 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 39 1 occur to me to ask people those questions at that 2 time when I was doing that, 3 Q. And you are referring to the notes? 4 A. To the notes, yes. 5 Q. Other than the data sheet that you saw and 6 from which you recorded these notes and your 7 conversation with Mr, Zalewa, do you have any other 8 reason to believe that Goodrich might have 9 supplied -- and by -- Strike that question. 10 Other than your conversation with Mr. 11 Zalewa and other than on the data sheets you referred 12 to in creating the notes in Exhibit 5, do you have 13 any other reason to believe that E.F. Goodrich 14 supplied vinyl chloride monomer to the Indian Orchard 15 plant? 16 A. It seems to me I talked to another analyst 17 who gave me Goodrich. I can't remember, I talked to 18 so many. I'm positive Joe's not the only one who I 19 talked to who gave me Goodrich. 20 Q. Do you remember anyone also that you 21 talked to? 22 A. It might have been a tank farm operator, I 23 just can't remember. It might have been Harold or RSV0022771 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 40 1 Carl Rehm. I just can't remember who it was. I 2 would have to check my notes to see. 3 Q. Well, aside from conversation -- Do you 4 have other notes? Strike that. 5 Do you have other notes that you have not 6 produced? 7 A. Well, they are all in the Cullinan case. 8 I wouldn't have anything since the Cullinan. 9 Q. Aside from your conversations with 10 whomever, be it other tank farm operators or lab 11 analysts or Mr. Zalewa, and aside from the data 12 sheets that you drew your notes from, do you have any 13 other reason to believe that B.F. Goodrich was a 14 supplier? 15 A. Well, it had occurred to me not too long 16 ago that the tank car designation GATX might be 17 Goodrich but it just began with a G or it might be 18 General Aniline or whatever but that's just a theory 19 I have. I have no -- When Joe told me he remembered 20 Goodrich he didn't tell me Goodrich was GATX, I don't 21 think. Now, he might have. My understanding, to 22 me -- and I have forgotten -- but that's the only 23 other connection I have that the possibility that RSV0022772 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME IX 41 1 might be the designation. 2 Q. Mr. Zalewa, do you kn ow where he is 3 ntly living? 4 A. He died two years ago C MR. RENDINI: I have no more. 6 MS. BURGER: Do you need to take a 7 break before we go any further? 8 THE WITNESS: Yes. 9 (A recess was taken.) 1 * * * * * 11' CROSS EXAMINATION BY MS. BURGER 12 Q. Ms. Griffith, although I've been sitting 13 here today and was here on May 9th, let me take a 14 moment to formally introduce myself to you. I am 15 Sharon Burger and I represent three of the defendants 16 in this lawsuit, Union Carbide Chemical and Plastics, 17 Conoco Chemical and the Dow Chemical Company. I know 18 I've heard this but if you don't understand anything 19 that I've asked you, please ask me to rephrase it and 20 I will do my best to ask you a question you do 21 understand. And if you need a break or anything just 22 le.t us know and we'll be happy to accommodate you. 23 We were delayed, Ms. Griffith, in getting RSV0022773 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME IX 42 1 this deposition going because recently you had an 2 injury to your wrist. Is it your left wrist? 3 A. Wrist, mm-hmm. 4 Q. I just wonder, are youpresently on any 5 medication because of your injury? 6 A. No . 7 Q. Are you on any medication forany other 8 reason? 9 A. Yes, you know, for a chronic problem, has 10 nothing to do with my wrist, no pain medication. 11 Q. What type of medication is it? 12 A. Thyroid. 13 Q. What is the name of it, of the medication? 14 A. Synthroid. 15 Q. Do you take that daily? 16 A. I'd rather not answer questions about my 17 health if it doesn't have anything to do with my 18 presence here. 19 Q. Do you know if that medication has any 20 affect on your memory at all? 21 A. No, I don't know. 22 Q. The reason -- and I don't mean to be 23 unnecessarily personal -- RSV0022774 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 43 1 A. (Interposing) If it's affected my memory 2 it would have affected my memory for eight or nine 3 years. I've been taking it that long. 4 Q. Are you on any other medication? 5 A. No , I ' m not * 6 Q. Okay . Ms . Griffith, you've been asked a 7 lot of questions about your notes that are the 13th 8 page of Exhibit 5 and I will ask you some more 9 questions about that if I may. Do you have that in 10 front of/you now? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Did you go back to the data book -- Is 13 that the right word for it? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. So you went back to adata book in 1981 or 16 1982? 17 A. Yes. I'm not sure if it was '81 or '82. 18 Oh, shortly before I retired. 19 Q. And the purpose for which you went back 2 0 was to determine when you personally had first been 21 exposed to, amongst other chemicals, VCM? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And the specific reasonyou wanted to do RSV0022775 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 44 that at that time in 1981 or 1982 was because Monsanto had listed chemicals to which you had been exposed but excluded, among others, VCM from the list? A . That's correct. Q And you, being confident that you had tested VCM, wanted to check that out? A . Yes. Q When you proceeded to do your search, did you have to ask /anybody at Monsanto for permission to examine the data books? A. No . Q. Did you at that time have personal access to the data books? A. Anyone in the lab did, yes. Q * So you did? A. Yes . Q. You were still employed then? A. Yes . Q- Where did you go within East Lab physically to get these data books that you examined? A . It was the first floor of 10 Building lab. Q* And was that the ordinary place in which COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION RSV0022776 PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 45 1 you would find stored data books? 2 A. Yes. Well, I correct that, not stored 3 really. They weren't very old. The storage area was 4 in the storeroom. This was the lab itself, a part of 5 the lab that had recently stored data books. I 6 didn't go into the storage area. 7 Q. So the place that you went was in the 8 basement of 10 Lab. 9 A. No, no. 10 Q. First floor? 11 A. First floor. 12 Q. When you went into the first floor of 10 13 Lab you were able to get books that had not been 14 moved off-site into storage? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And you said they were recent data books, 17 correct? 18 A. Well, fairly. They would just store them 19 until they did not have anymore room over the bench 20 tops. They were stored over the bench tops and I 21 don't know, I didn't notice how long they had been 22 stored there. 23 Q. Were they stored alphabetically? RSV0022777 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 46 1 A. I think they were stored by group maybe, 2 like raw material group would have their storage area 3 and resinenes would have theirs. It's not clear in 4 my mind. 5 Q. In what category or area did you search 6 for the VCM data books? 7 A. Vinyl chloride monomer. 8 Q. Is vinyl chloride monomer a category of 9 its own? 10 A. I would have found fit under the raw 11 materials section of data books. 12 Q. The data books containing information 13 about VCM contained data about no other chemical; is 14 that right? 15 A. That's correct. 16 Q. Did you have in mind before youbegan your 17 search a year in time that you wanted to begin your 18 search? 19 A.- I don't recall how I did it. 20 Q. Do you recall what year you started your 21 search with? 22 A. No, I don't. 23 Q. Do you recall whether you started at an RSV0022778 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME IX 47 1 earlier year and moved forward in time? 2 A. Well, if I had been thinking properly I 3 would have started with an earlier time. I don't 4 know whether I did or not, I just don't recall. 5 Q. Were you specifically looking for your 6 earliest exposure? 7 A. I was. 8 Q. Were you concerned with any subsequent 9 exposure you may have had? 1 A. I probably was looking --'Also, it 11 occurred to me at the same time I could find out 12 about other suppliers, which was another question we 13 had, another question at the same time. 14 Q. Well, when you say, another question that 15 we had, who was the "we" to which you refer? 16 A. Well, the group of us that was concerned 17 about people who were dying. 18 Q. Who is the group to whom you are 19 referring? 20 A. The KOSHA. 21 Q. Who are the people in KOSHA to whom you 22 refer? 23 A. The people like me that were just RSV0022779 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 48 interested people. Q- Ms. Griffith, what are their names? A . I can't tell you who the names are because I'm the only one who knows who KOSHA is and part of our agreement was that no one would of ever be identified and our agreement was that no one would ever be identified. Q. You understand that you are under oath? A. I'm 'not lying to you. I'm telling you what I promised, that I wouldn't reveal the /source of my information and I have never broken my promise. Q So you are refusing now to tell me -A. (Interposing) No, I'm not refusing. Q. please. Wait a minute. Let me finish my question, Are you refusing now to identify the people other than yourself who are associated with KOSHA? A. I can't do it. Q. So you are refusing to answer? A. No, I'm not refusing. It just is an impossibility for me to do it. I'm not refusing. Q. Why is it an impossibility? RSV0022780 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 49 1 A. I've given names'freely whenever I was 2 asked of people who I contacted. I've answered every 3 question so far that has been asked me, who gave me 4 the information, who I found, who told me this. I 5 have not refused to answer one specific question or 6 give names that I could remember but I can't answer 7 your question. I can't. It is a physical 8 impossibility for me to answer that question. 9 Q. It is a physical impossibility? 10 A. Ves, itis just an impossibility for me ,-to 11 answer the question. 12 Q. Ms. Griffith, what is the physical 13 restraint? 14 A. Willyou ask the question again? 15 Q. Yes. 16 Please identify the names of the 17 individuals other than yourself who were or are 18 associated with KOSHA? 19 A. There are no members of KOSHA. There are 20 no associates of KOSHA. There are sympathizers and 21 people who I worked with, who helped me, so I can't 22 identify specifically because I listen carefully to 23 your question and I just can't answer it. RSV0022781 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME XI 50 Q. Ms . Griffith A. (Interposing) I don't know of any such people. Q. Ms. Griffith? A. Yes . Q. Earlier when I asked you essentially the purpose for your search, you said we were also interested in determining other suppliers of VCM or something to that effect; do you remember that tes timony? A. Yes, Ido. Q. And I asked you who"we" referred to; do you remember that question? A. Yes. I was using an editorial "we." I always speak of KOSHA as we. Q. So at that point you were speaking only of yourself? A. Yes. Q. And your testimonyhere is thatthere are no other people who you can identify as being in any way associated with KOSHA? A. Not -- sympathetic, helpful, helpmates, interested, caring. RSV0022782 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 51 1 Q. Where did the name -2 A. (Interposing) But not associates. I mean 3 no way -- You are trying to get me to do something 4 that's an impossibility because there were no 5 associates, no members. 6 Q. Where did the name KOSHA come from? 7 A. I don't even remember that really. 8 Q. Did you create the name? 9 A. I did and I can't remember. It seems to 10 me it was to distinguish it from OSHA. 11 Q. Did you publish the name any place? 12 A. I used the name several times in 13 correspondence. 14 Q. In correspondence with whom? 15 A. Oh, whoever I happen to be writing to, a 16 lot of different people. NIOSH I think was the 17 earliest. 18 Q. Who were the people who were sympathizers 19 of KOSHA? 20 A. You mean who worked at Monsanto? 21 Q. No, I mean anyone who you would identify 22 as a sympathizer of KOSHA. 23 MR. MINOFF: What time period? RSV0022783 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 52 1 MS. BURGER: Any time period that 2 KOSHA existed. 3 THE WITNESS: I can't remember now 4 who the first ones were. These names are people who 5 assisted in anything that we were interested in as 6 KOSHA. 7 Q. (By Ms. Burger) "We" being you? 8 A. "We" editorial, KOSHA was interested in. 9 "We" meaning I was doing it because I was concerned 10 and I couldn't do it alone. There were some things 11 that I just could not do alone and I got help from 12 people like Harold Williams, who is not a member of 13 KOSHA, never was. 14 Q. Well, you've testified that there are no 15 members of KOSHA, correct? 16 A. No members. So in your question to me I 17 cannot -18 Q. (Interposing) Hold on. There is no 19 question. 20 There are no members of KOSHA? 21 A. . No, never. 22 Q. You have used the word sympathizer to me 23 and I would like to know who the sympathizers were? RSV0022784 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 53 1 MR. MINOFF: I believe she was 2 continuing to answer that question. 3 THE WITNESS: Harold Williams. 4 Q* (By Ms. Burger) Is there any other person 5 besides Harold Williams that you can identify? 6 A. There are dozens of them. I don't have a 7 list of people. They change. Most of them, in fact, 8 almost all of them are dead. 9 Q. Ms. Griffith, would you do me the favor of 10 letting me finish the question, primarily so that the 11 court reporter can get it? 12 A. I thought you finished the question. 13 Q. Are you able to identify by name any 14 sympathizers of KOSHA other than Harold Williams? 15 A. I am able to. 16 Q. Will you do that? 17 A. May I have a word with you? 18 MR. MINOFF: Sure. 19 (A recess was taken.) 20 MS. BURGER: Would you read the last 21 question? 22 (Reporter read back as requested.) 23 RSV0022785 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 54 1 MR, MINOFF: I think the question 2 is: Will you do that? Ruth? 3 THE WITNESS: I don't want to 4 prolong this anymore than I have to, I know your 5 time is valuable too and mine certainly is but there 6 are several points that I'd like to stress: 7 Number one, it is true that information I 8 received from some people was received on the 9 condition that they be anonymous. 10 Number two, I cannot at this time recall 11 even probably one-hundredth of the people you asked 12 for, namely, sympathizers of KOSHA. To single out a 13 few people among those hundred is not fair, whether 14 they are dead or alive except Harold Williams. I 15 think he'd like to be singled out. I think he'd like 16 to be remembered in that way. 17 Number three, I am concerned about the 18 well being of people who are still employed at 19 Monsanto. I am concerned about people worried about 20 their pensions from Monsanto and I would do 21 absolutely nothing to increase their worry or 22 anxiety, whether it is real or imagined. And naming 23 a few people out of hundreds of people would do that RSV0022786 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 55 1 or it might do that. 2 I am also not impressed with your need to 3 know. I don't understand what this has to do with 4 John Warren. So I have answered specific questions 5 about vinyl chloride and the people that gave me 6 information about vinyl chloride. I've given 7 addresses. If you go through and pick out the names 8 that appear in the deposition of May and this 9 morning, those would be probably the sympathizers of 10 KOSHA. I cannot rattle off names because I just 11 don't have those names in my head. I would have to 12 sit down and think very, very carefully and what I 13 came up with -- Say you gave me ten minutes to come 14 up with a list, if I came up with a list they would 15 be a small list and their importance would be 16 exaggerated because they are only the onesthat I 17 spoke with maybe recently or had something to do with 18 this particular case. So I think the question is 19 very unfair and I don't see a need for it. 20 If you insist that I answer it, I would 21 say I cannot answer it as I told you before. I 22 cannot physically answer the question. I cannot give 23 you sympathizers, all the sympathizers. And there RSV0022787 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 56 are other sympathizers of KOSHA who are not affiliated with Monsanto that I don't even know -whose names I don't even know. There are other sympathizers that I have never, known that did so, so that I don't even know who they are. If you would like to rephrase the question I might be able to answer it. Your question said sympathizers of KOSHA. I cannot answer that question. I do not know the answer to that, fully, to that question. Q. (By Ms. Burger) Ms. Griffith, respectfully, I would ask that your answer that you've just given be stricken because it wasn't responsive to the simple question of will you identify people or whatever the precise question was which was very limited. MR. RENDINI: If you are making a motion to strike, I join. MR. MINOFF: They have been reserved and I think she's answered your question and more. MS. BURGER: The question was will you do that. MR. MINOFF: I think the answer is COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION RSV0022788 PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 57 1 no, unless Ms. Griffith has a different answer. 2 Q. (By Ms. Burger) I gather the answer to 3 will you do that is no, Ms. Griffith? 4 A. The answer is I cannot. I told you I 5 couldn't. I do not have that information in my head 6 at this time. 7 Q. You've just spoken for approximately ten 8 minutes with Mr. Minoff in the hallway about this 9 issue, correct? 10 A. I didn't notice how long it was . 11 Q. You just had a conversation with him? 12 A . Yes, I did. 13 Q. Out in the hall? 14 A. Yes . 15 Q* Does Mr. Minoff represent you in any 16 capacity? 17 A. No, he does not. 18 Q. Would you tell us generally what your 19 conversation with Mr. Minoff was? 20 A. About your question. 21 Q. And what was your conversation; what did 22 you say and what did he say? 23 A. Do you have a tape recorder on you? RSV0022789 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 58 MR. MINOFF: She's just asking you for your best memory, Ruth. THE WITNESS: I told Mr. Minoff approximately, not in the order that I just gave to you, what I just said what my reservations were, especially since I had promised in some cases anonymity. I also did not understand what this had to do with John Warren's death and since the connection to his death in this case wasn't clear to i?e, I wondered if any information that I gave could be used in some other way at some future time. I went over every point that I just gave to you about not -- not knowing the names of the hundreds, not being able to bring them out of my head at this time and if I did try, the fact that I could remember today, it would be unfair to all of the others. It would seem to exaggerate perhaps the importance of the few that I could recall. Q. Ms. Griffith, did Mr. Minoff say anything to you during the course of your conversation with him? A. He said he understood what I was saying but he could not advise me since he was not my RSV0022790 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 59 1 counsel. He said that in a case of my refusal, I 2 could be ordered to answer the question in a court. 3 He said other things generally trying to clarify I 4 guess what I had just told him. 5 Q. Do you understand that part of the process 6 of taking a deposition in a civil lawsuit is to 7 gather information which may lead to the discovery of S evidence for trial? 9 A. Are you telling me that now? 10 Q. , I'm asking you if you understand that as 11 one of the purposes? 12 A. I understand it as you say that now, yes. 13 Q. That is one of the purposes. I represent 14 to you that one of the purposes of the deposition is 15 to gather information which may lead to the discovery 16 of evidence that would be admissible at trial. Were 17 you unaware of that purpose of the deposition 18 previously? 19 A. No, not really. 20 Q. You have said that there are specific 21 people to whom you promised anonymity with respect to 22 their sympathizing with KOSHA or providing 23 information to you; is that right? RSV0022791 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 60 A Yes . Q Will you identify those people now? A No . Q How many people are there -A (Interposing) I have no idea. Q. Let me finish the question, please. How many people are there to whom you promised anonymity who you will not identify now? A. I give you the same answer, I don't have that information in my head. Q. Are there more than five such people? A. I don't -- I would have to think about it. I just don't happen to have a photographic memory. Q. Is KOSHA -- Withdraw that. I believe you have described KOSHA as an ad hoc committee, correct? A It was always one ad hoc after another, yes . Q What do you mean by "one ad hoc after another"? A. . We were always interested over long time periods, depending upon the circumstances in the special project usually. COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION RSV0022792 PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 61 1 Q. Who is "we" in that context? 2 A. "We" is KOSHA. "We" is me and people like 3 me . 4 Q. Did anyone suggest to you that you form an K ad hoc committee which would investigate issues 6 relating to chemical exposures? 7 A. I don't recall if anyone did. 8 Q. Did anyone direct you to do it? 9 A. No . 10 Q. Did you at some time form such a 11 committee ? 12 A. No. 13 Q. When is the first time you used the 14 terminology KOSHA? 15 A. I would have to look that up. I really 16 don't remember the first time. 17 Q. What source of information do you use as 18 KOSHA in order to go to people to find information 19 out? 20 A. I use my name, Ruth Griffith. 21 Q. How do you know to whom to speak if you 22 want information? 23 A. Well, if we're talking about a vinyl COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION RSV0022793 PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II I 62 chloride problem, safety problem, I go to people who have worked with vinyl chloride. Q. Talking to people only at Monsanto? A . No . Q. Do you go to people at other chemical companies ? A. I don't recall ever going to another chemical company. Q. Where else are the people located other than at Monsanto to whom you go for information? A. Libraries, books, organizations that are similar like the COSH groups, MASSCOSH in particular. Q Which group is that? A. MASSCOSH. Q. What did that stand for, do you know? A. Massachusetts Coalition of Occupational Safety and Health. Q. And is that actually a group with a telephone number? A. Well, they are in Boston now. They did have branches all over the state at the time I was active in i t. Q. You were active in MASSCOSH? RSV0022794 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 63 1 A. Yes, I was. 2 Q. Does KOSHA have a telephone number? 3 A. No . 4 Q. Does it have a mailing address? 5 A. Well, it did have a mailing address 6 briefly in the Orchard, Box 122 I think it was. 7 Q- When did it have that mailing address? 8 A. '80, in the mid-eighties. 9 Q. For how long did it have that address? 10 A. About a year. 11- Q Was it at Monsanto? 12 A. No . 13 Q. Was it at someone's home? 14 A. Indian Orchard post office. 15 Q. Who was the person who collected that 16 mail ? 17 A. I collected it. 18 (The lunch recess was taken.) 19 Q (By Ms. Burger) Miss Griffith, I have 20 just a few more questions. 21 A. Ms . please. 22 Q. I'm sorry, Ms. 23 A. Ms . RSV0022795 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOTUHE II--------------------------------------------------- 61----- r1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 L# 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. Okay. I'd be happy to use that. any way? With respect to KOSHA, is that funded in A. How -- I don't understand the question, "funded . " Q. Does KOSHA ever have any expenses? A. Yes. Q. And who pays the expenses? A. I usually do. Q. Are there occasions when somebody other than- you pays the expenses of KOSHA? A. I've had donations. They don't pay really. I've had donations of paper and envelopes and things like that. Q. Have you ever told either Mr. Minoff or Mr. Tourtelotte the names of the helpers or sympathizers of KOSHA? A. They've never asked. Q. What is the purpose -- Well, let me withdraw that. My question isn't whether they have ever asked. My question is whether you've told them the names ? RSV0022796 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 65 1 A. They have never asked and I never told 2 them. 3 Q. What is the purpose for which KOSHA 4 exists? 5 A. The purpose changed over the years. I'm 6 trying to remember the original. The original 7 purpose was to facilitate the NIOSH study. I think I 8 mentioned that last time. That was an ad hoc 9 situation where we were concerned with helping the 10 NIOSH proportionate mortality study and to establish 11 a connection with the epidemiologist in charge of the 12 study so that we could supply them with alternate 13 names of deaths among our local, that is, Local 288 14 members, not KOSHA members. 15 Q. Roughly what year are you referring to in 16 terms of the NIOSH study? 17 A. The NIOSH study would have been '78 or 18 '79, I'm not sure which. 19 Q. So to the best of your present 20 recollection it was 1978 or 1979 when NIOSH or -- 21 A. (Interposing) No. That's, when they 22 published the study. It must have been earlier when 23 they started it, '76. RSV0022797 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES TT 1 Q. "They" being NIOSH? 2 A. Yes. I would say they started when I was 3 on the negotiating committee so it must have been -4 or before, 1975 maybe, 1975. 5 Q. Now, you've referred to providing 6 information through KOSHA of Local 288 members' 7 deaths; is that correct? 8 A. We could only provide them with the hourly 9 people's deaths because we didn't have any list or 10 any information or little information on salary t 11 people. 12 Q. What was the source of information to 13 KOSHA about deaths of Local 288 members? 14 A.- Well, at that time all our -- I wish you 15 wouldn't use the word "members" -- but all the people 16 who cooperated were members of the Local 288 at the 17 time. They were the same people. They were both 18 Local 288 members and people who cooperated with our 19 ad hoc committee. 20 Q. That is back in the mid-1970's? 21 A. . Yes, '75 or so. 22 Q. Is there any relationship between KOSHA 23 and Local 288? RSV0022798 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN Sc ASSOCIATES VOLUME II * 67 1 A. No, except that fact. 2 Q. Except what fact? 3 A. That at that time all of the people 4 helping the ad hoc committee were also union members. 5 That suspended later and was no longer the case but 6 at the time the first people were all members of the 7 Local 288. There was no official connection with 8 KOSHA and Local 288 and there never has been. Even 9 though I was an union officer at the time there was 10 no official connecti/on. 11 Q. And the NIOSH'study that these people were 12 supporting or providing information to was about 13 what? 14 A, It was a proportionate mortality study of 15 production workers I believe at Monsanto, Indian 16 Orchard from 1950 through 1976. 17 Q. Going back to the 13th page of Exhibit 5, 18 may I ask if we have that handy? 19 MR. MINOFF: Here. (Indicating) 20 Q. (By Ms. Burger) Before we got off on a 21 tangent I was asking you about the period of time 22 during which you reviewed records -- Withdraw that. 23 I'll just ask a question instead of trying RSV0022799 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II r 1 1 to go back to what we were talking about earlier. 2 What was the time period which you 3 reviewed in coining up with the information that is 4 contained on page 13 of Exhibit 5? 5 MR. MINOFF: I'll have to object to 6 the form. I think it's pretty ambiguous the way you 7 phrased it. 8 MS. BURGER: I'll rephrase it and do 9 it in smaller pieces I hope. 10 MR. MINOFF: Okay. 11 Q. (By Ms.Burger) Ms.Griffith, you've 12 explained that you have looked at data books for VCM 13 sometime in 1981 or 1982, correct? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And your primary purpose atleast in doing 16 that was to determine when you personally had first 17 been exposed to VCM? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. As I understand it, you also had a 20 secondary purpose, did you not? 21 A. . Yes. 22 Q. And that secondary purpose was to 23 determine the identity of suppliers of VCM to RSV0Q22800 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 69 1 Monsanto other than Monsanto? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And that secondary purpose was the result 4 of your involvement with KOSHA? 5 A. More or less. It wasn't specifically 6 KOSHA but it did involve my interest in KOSHA. 7 Q. Why did you care personally in what 8 suppliers there had been of VCM to Monsanto? 9 A. Well, most of KOSHA or most of my work I 10 will say, if I might use the personal pronoun, most 11 of my work involved answering questions and I was 12 asked this question so many times and got so many 13 answers, I wanted to get an answer that I could 14 believe. And the only way I could do it was to get 15 something in writing. My memory wasn't that good. 16 This happened in '68 and I was doing it in '81 or '82 17 and I was told first that Monsanto was the only 18 supplier then -- after Texas City -- this was after 19 Texas City. Then I was told that Dow was the only 20 one after that and there were conflicting opinions 21 about who supplied more, if Union Carbide supplied 22 any at all. Some thought that they had and some 23 didn't remember. These were all questions that I was RSV0022801 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 70 1 trying to answer. And 90 percent of my work was 2 involved with answering all kinds of safety 3 questions. That happened to be a question that kept 4 coming up and I was just curious about what the right 5 answer was. 6 Q. Who is it -- Who told you that Dow was the 7 only supplier after Texas City? 8 A. I can 1t remember whether it was a tan k 9 farm operator or who. It was while I was still at 10 work though. It wasn't after. See, I'm trying to 11 separ ate the knowledge that I was able to obtain 12 after I retired and the knowledge I had at the time I 13 got this information from the lab. At the time I got 14 this information from the lab I really didn't know 15 much of anything about suppliers except what I was 16 told, that Monsanto was getting other suppliers, to 17 check to see whether their quality was okay. I 18 didn't know that that they picked any or they used 19 any because I had left the lab before the PVC units 20 shut down in '75. 21 So I think the answer to your question is 22 I got the answer about Dow after I -- after 1981. 23 After I retired when I was asking about it. RSV0022802 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHXLBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 71 1 Q. Ms. Griffith, my question -- 2 A. (Interposing) I don't remember. The 3 answer to your question is I don't remember who told 4 me . 5 Q. And you don't recall for certain when you 6 were told of that? 7 A. No, I don't. 8 Q. Do you know whether it was true or false, 9 that Dow is the only supplier of VCM after Texas 10 City? 11 A. I don't know that it is true or false. 12 Q. You stated in your last answer something 13 about looking to other suppliers to check if their 14 quality of VCM was okay? 15 A. Yes. I'm sorry, go ahead. 16 Q. What were you referring to? 17 A. If I recall right, the first information I 18 received as a lab analyst from a supervisor or 19 another analyst was we were going to check several 20 suppliers for quality including running some tests 21 that we wouldn't normally run on Monsanto. My 22 original idea or impression was that the lab was 23 going to receive samples from a lot of these RSV0022803 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 72 1 suppliers and then the company was going to decide on 2 a supplier or a prime supplier. I neverknew whether 3 that was true or false. I suspect it might have had 4 some truth to it but that's what I meant by Monsanto 5 was going to check out the quality of the VCM. 6 Q. And who is it who told you while you were 7 a lab analyst that such sampling of suppliers' 8 products was to occur? 9 A. I don't remember. I don't even remember 10 whether it/was another analyst or a supervisor. 11 Q. Do you remember when you were told that? 12 A. Well, it would have had to have been about 13 '68 or about that. 14 Q. Do you know whether any of the samples 15 that are referenced on page 13 of Exhibit 5 16 constitute samples from suppliers which were being 17 tested for quality in order to select a new supplier? 18 A. I have no knowledge. That would have 19 represented an entire tank car now, that's a pretty 20 big sample. 21 Q. . What? 22 A. Each one of those samples tested 23 represented an entire tank car. RSV0022804 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 73 1 Q. What is the basis of your knowledge that 2 those samples represented an entire tank car? 3 A. Well, I don't have any. I just assume 4 that. 5 Q Did you go back and look at the data books 6 for the year 1967 in order to search for your 7 earliest exposure to VCM? 8 A. As I told you, I don't remember how I did 9 it. I assumed I picked an early date if I did find 10 my first one I would have gone back. In other words, 11 if I found my initials on a page in 1968 I would have 12 gone backwards to see whether I would have found an 13 earlier one. 14 Q. Do you know as you sit here whether you 15 looked at data books for the year 1967 to search for 16 VCM tests which you conducted? 17 A. I'm sure I did. 18 Q. Did you look at data books for VCM for the 19 year 1966 to determine any testing you did on VCM? 20 A. Probably not. 21 Q. And why would you assume you looked at 22 1967 but did not go back as far as 1966? 23 A. I don't think I was testing VCM but I'd RSV0022805 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES "VOLUME II TT 1 have to check for that but I don't think I was 2 testing VCM in '66. 3 Q. What would you check to determine that? 4 A. Oh, at that time I might have remembered. 5 Q. No, but what would you have checked today 6 if you wanted to find that out? 7 A. Oh, now, my work history. 8 Q* While looking at the data book for 1967 9 did you see any entries for tank car identifications 10 which were for suppliers /as you understood it other 11 than Monsanto? 12 A. I can't answer that yes or no because I 13 don't remember specifically whether I was looking for 14 that in * 67. 15 Q. Were you looking for the information about 16 suppliers for 1968? 17 A. I think I was trying to match them up, 18 looking for the suppliers at the time that I knew I 19 was testing so that I went from '68 beyond. 20 Q. Did you examine data books for VCM for all 21 of 1968?. 22 A. I don't remember if I went all through .23 '68 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION RSV0022806 PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 75 1 Q. Did you examine data books for all of 2 1969? 3 A. I couldn't tell you that either but I 4 assume that I did. It wasn't that difficult. You 5 know, it wouldn't take that long to go through a year 6 but I couldn't say for sure whether I did-or not. 7 Q. Did you examine data books for VCM for the 8 year 1970? 9 A. For my signature orthe suppliers? 10 Q. Either. 11 A. Not for my signature and I don't really 12 know whether I did for suppliers or not. 13 See, the suppliers were secondary at the 14 time. I just sort of jotted those down. The primary 15 one that I was interested in was my own earliest 16 test. I didn't check for any of my later testing. 17 Q. Do you know who the lab analyst was who 18 performed the tests on the entry that you have for 19 Dow X 3337, July 19, 1968? 20 A. No, I don't. 21 Q. Do you know whether that test passed 22 specifications? 23 A. No, I don't. I didn't write down any test RSV0022807 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 76 1 results. 2 Q. Do you know whether the VCM from which the 3 sample was taken ever made it into a storage tank? 4 A. I have no idea. 5 Q. Do you have idea whether the VCM from 6 which the sample was taken reflecting Dow X 3337 ever 7 made it into any kettle? 8 A. I don't haveany information on anything 9 that I ever sampled of what happened after. 10 Q. I take it if I ask you the dante 11 question And I hope you will bear with me on the 12 next question but I do want to ask them. 13 With respect to the entry under Conco -14 A. Yes. 15 Q. -- CONX 9066, dated October 14, 1968, do 16 you know the name of the lab analyst who performed 17 that test? 18 A. No . 19 Q. Do you know whether that sample passed 20 specifications? 21 A. . No. 22 Q. Do you know whether the VCM from which 23 that sample was taken ever made it into a storage RSV0022808 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 77 1 tank at Monsanto? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Do you know whether the sample from which 4 that test was taken ever made it into any kettle at 5 Monsanto? 6 A. No . 7 Q. I'm going to ask the same question for 8 Goodrich, which is the next question. 9 Do you know the identity of the lab 10 analyst wh o performed the test on the sample ( 11 identified as Goodrich V8 2527, dated October 14, 12 1968? 13 A. No . 14 Q. Do you know whether that sample passed 15 specificat ions? 16 A. I do not. 17 Q. Do you know whether the VCM from which 18 that sampl e was taken ever made it into any storage 19 tank? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Do you know whether the VCM from which the 22 sample was taken ever made it into any kettle? 23 A. I do not. RSV0022809 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 78 1 Q. Do you have any records in your possession 2 of shipments of VCM by Union Carbide? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Did you in your search of thedata books 5 come across any entry which reflected a sample from a 6 tank car with Union Carbide's name on it? 7 A. Nothing with Union Carbide's name on it. 8 Q. Did you come across any other entry in 9 your review of the data books which suggested to you 10 that Union Carbide was the supplier? 11 A. No, because I didn't know thatUnion' 12 Carbide was a supplier then. 13 Q. At some point after 1981 or 1982 when you 14 searched the data books did someone tell you that 15 Union Carbide had been a supplier? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q- And who told you that? 18 A. Joe Zalewa. 19 Q. And he is now diseased? 20 A. Yes . 21 Q. And what is it that he told you about 22 Union Carbide? 23 A. He said he remembered that Union Carbide RSV0022810 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 79 1 was a supplier of the monomer he tested. 2 Q. And he was another lab assistant? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. An analyst? 5 A. He was 5 lab analyst at the time. 6 Q. Did he tell you the basis of his knowledge 7 that Union Carbide had been a supplier of the VCM he 8 tested? 9 A. He said he was told and he recognized a 10 car identification. It was either UCX or something 11 like that. He said he was told that that was Union 12 Carbide. 13 Q. That UCX stood for Union Carbide? 14 A. I don't remember the designation but he 15 was told a certain car designation was always Union 16 Carbide. 17 Q. Did he tell you who told him that? 18 A. No. 19 Q. When did you have this conversation -20 A. (Interposing) Yes, he did tell me. He 21 told me supervision told him. Supervision -- I can't 22 remember whether it was lab supervision or production 23 supervision, someone he talked to though but -- RSV0022811 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 80 1 Q. Did he give you the name of the person who 2 told him that? 3 A . No . 4 Q. Did you ask him about this in your 5 capacity as a KOSHA sympathizer? 6 A . No . 7 Q* Was it in your own personal capacity? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Why were you interested? 10 A. I was -- I was checking information for 11 the Cullinan case. 12 Q. When did you -13 A. (Interposing) Supplier information. 14 Q. When did you have this conversation with 15 Mr. Zalewa? 16 A. Well, I had several conversations with him 17 over several years. 18 Q. Specifically, I'm interested in the 19 conversation you said you had with him about Union 20 Carbide being a supplier of VCM? 21 A. , First time, I'm sorry. It might have been 22 before the Cullinan case. I can't remember when that 23 was . RSV0022812 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 81 1 Q. Do you recall the conversation the first 2 conversation you had with them about suppliers of 3 VCM? 4 A. It was a telephone conversation. 5 Q. And did you call him in order to speak 6 with him about the subject? 7 A. I think it came up. I think we were 8 talking, you know, general terms about a lot of 9 different things and I didn't call him for that 10 specific reason. I did call him later for that 11 specific reason but years -- maybe over a year at 12 least. 13 Q. And the reason for. your subsequent call is 14 because you were investigating about suppliers of VCM 15 for a case called Cullinan? 16 A. Yes, but it seemed earlier -- when we 17 talked about it earlier we weren't talking about the 18 Cullinan case when we were just talking about vinyl 19 chloride cases in general. 20 Q. Cases meaning lawsuits? 21 A. Lawsuits, that's why the supplier came up. 22 Q. Are you aware of any lawsuits involving 23 VCM other than the Cullinan case and this case RSV0022813 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 82 1 involving Mr. Warren? 2 A. Not any lawsuit. Maybe it was the other 3 angiosarcoma case. I just can't put a handle on the 4 year that I talked to him about it. We were talking 5 about the legal aspect of suing in Massachusetts, not 6 being able to -- most people who asked us assumed you 7 could sue Monsanto so we had to look up just to 8 explain why they couldn't sue Monsanto on the state 9 level. 10 Q. Who do you mean when you say "we" in that 11 context? 12 A. Well, Joe was one of the ones who was 13 asked because he worked on monomer. He was supposed 14 to be an expert. When you work on something I guess 15 you are supposed to be an expert on it, so I guess 16 that was maybe one thing we were discussing. 17 Q. What role did you play in the Cullinan 18 case in terms of investigating? 19 A. Well, I wouldn't say I investigated it 20 but -~ 21 Q. . What did you do in connection with that 22 case? 23 A. I tried to answer questions that were RSV0022814 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 83 1 asked me about suppliers and about any other 2 questions that came up about his working conditions, 3 I had taken notes of a long conversation I had with 4 Paul before he died and I tried to get people who 5 would be reliable witnesses to tell me what would be 6 helpful in his case. 7 Q. Did Mr. Cullinan's attorney ask you to 8 help find information? 9 A. I think I volunteered because I had -- I 10 had been involved in his case long before he had an 11 attorney. He didn't have an attorney at the time I 12 talked with him. 13 Q. At the time that you talked with Mr. 14 Zalewa was that on behalf of Mr. Cullinan without 15 regard to any lawsuits that he had? 16 A. The first time was without a lawsuit, yes, 17 the earliest time. 18 Q. You've mentioned earlier today about notes 19 that you had taken of conversations with, I believe, 20 Mr. Zalewa and perhaps Mr. Williams; do you have 21 personal notes that reflect telephone, conversations 22 or-in-person conversations that you had with either 23 of those people on the subject of VCM supply to RSV0022815 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 84 1 Monsanto? 2 A. I gave all my notes to Attorney Halpern. 3 Q. Attorney who? 4 A. Keith Halpern, the Cullinan family's 5 attorney, 6 Q. Can you spell his last name? 7 A. H-A-L-P-E-R-N. S Q. Where is he located? 9 A. Boston. 10 Q. Do you know the name of his firm? 11 A. No, it changes so often I couldn't tell 12 you. 13 Q. You gave Mr. Halpern all of your personal 14 handwritten notes? 15 A. On telephone conversations relating to 16 what I was doing for Paul's family. 17 Q. Did you keep a copy of those notes? 18 A. I don't recall that I sent him the 19 original or -- I probably did send him the copies. 20 Q. Where are the originals? 21 A. It's a good question. Somewhere in the 22 files. 23 Q. In what files? COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION RSV0022816 PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 85 1 A. Well, somewhere in the file that I keep 2 Q. At your home? 3 A. Well, would be mostly in my home, yes. 4 Q * Where else do you keep files? 5 A. I think I have some in a barn in 6 Southwick. I think I might have some. No, I threw 7 those away. No, I threw those away. 8 Q. You threw what away? 9 A. The ones inSouthwick. 10 Q. In a barn? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. So the only place you have them would be 13 at home? 14 A. Yes, I forgot. I did take care of those. 15 Q. When did you throw notes away that you 16 kept in Southwick or materials? 17 A. I think shortly after I retired, maybe 18 ' 83. 19 Q. When is the last time you saw your own 20 notes reflecting telephone conversation or other 21 conversations you had with anybody about VCM supply? 22 A. Well, the last- time I looked something up 23 for Mrs. Warren I couldn't find all of them so the RSV0022817 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 86 1 ones I found were a couple years ago. 2 Q What did you do -3 A . (Interposing) Three years ago. 4 Q. What did you do with those notes? 5 A . I think they are in either her file or the 6 PVC file somewhere 7 0- What do you mean by "her file"? 8 A. The file I have for Mrs. Warren. 9 Q. Did you look in that file when you were 3,0 asked to produce documents at this deposition? 11 A. No, because I assumed you had everything 12 that the Cullinan case had and that would have been 13 included in the Cullinan case. I really couldn't 14 take the time to duplicate work I had already done. 15 Q. You understand that this case and the 16 Cullinan case are separate legal actions? 17 A. No, but I assume they are available and 18 the amount of time it would take me to not only find 19 it but research it -- You know, if you want me to 20 produce everything I have for the Cullinan file that 21 I can find it would take me a long time and a lot of 22 copying and I just don't have time for it. And I was 23 told that you had available to you everything in the RSV0022818 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 87 1 Cullinan case so all of the material that I provided 2 to Keith Halpern would also be available to you. 3 Q. Who told you that? 4 A. I don't know, somebody I was talking with. 5 Q. You don't know who told you that? 6 A. I don't know who it was. 7 Q. And you just assumed it was true? 8 A. Well, I guess I assumed it was true 9 because every time I asked the question about do I 10 have to produce this or -- not in this case but in 11 several other -- in one other case, the Cullinan case 12 I guess it was -- and if they could they could get it 13 through some other means, you know, through another 14 attorney, you know, they did. 15 Q. Ms. Griffith, I'm going to read to you one 16 of the paragraphs in Exhibit Number 1, which is the 17 notice of taking your deposition. Paragraph seven 18 asks you to bring to the deposition any and all 19 photographs, drawings, papers, records, notes, books, 20 and other writings relating to or identifying the 21 names and addresses of suppliers of vinyl chloride to 22 Monsanto facilities in the Springfield area during 23 the years 1947 to 1983. My question to you, having RSV0022819 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 88 '___ i 1 read that, is: Have you, in fact, not provided us 2 with all documents which fall within that category? 3 A. You mean notes specifically? I don't know 4 of anything else. I've given you all that I have as 5 far as documents, that one page from my notebook. 6 That's the extent of my documents that I have. As 7 far as my personal notes, I assumed that you had 8 those. If my assumption was wrong I'm sorry. 9 Q. Your assumption is wrong and what I would 10 ask because I don't want to take up your time any 11 more than necessary is -- so I don't want to ask you 12 to come back for another deposition -- I would ask if 13 you would find the notes and provide them either 14 directly to me and to other counsel or to Mr. Minoff 15 who could then provide them to us? 16 A. I would like to see the notes you have. I 17 don't have all of them. I tried to provide them to 18 Mrs. Warren and I couldn't tell -- I just have some 19 of them. 20 Q. When did you try to locate them for Mrs. 21 Warren? . 22 A. I don't know, a couple years ago. 23 Q. Did you locate some of the notes for Mrs. RSV0022820 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 89 1 Warren at that time? 2 A. Yes, some of them. 3 Q. Did you supply them to Mrs. Warren at that 4 time ? 5 A. No, I don't think I did. 6 Q. All we can ask you to do is to provide 7 copies of that which you do have. If you have 8 discarded them or given some to Mr. Halpern and not 9 retained copies, whatever, my only request to you is 10 to look for notes that you do have and provide us 11 with a copy. Will you do that? 12 A. I understand. 13 Q. Will you do that? 14 A. I understand and I will try. 15 MR. MINOFF: What notes are these so 16 we have it clear on the record exactly? 17 MS. BURGER: What I understand to 18 exist are notes that Ms. Griffith has taken of 19 telephone conversations or perhaps in-person 20 conversations she has had with people like Mr. 21 Zalewa, perhaps Mr. Williams or others, where they 22 have identified the names of suppliers of vinyl 23 chloride to Monsanto; and as I understand it that is RSV0022821 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 90 1 requested in Paragraph seven. I certainly appreciate 2 Ms. Griffith's not having provided them earlier. 3 THE WITNESS: I put all that stuff 4 away . 5 MR. MINOFF: As long as you 6 understand what it is specifically that she's looking 7 f or. 8 THE WITNESS: I understand exactly 9 what she's looking for. 10 MR. M IfN OFF: Okay. 11 Q* (By Ms. Burger) Okay. Do you have any 12 records in your custody orpossession of shipments of 13 VCM by Dow? 14 A. What records are you talking about? 15 Q. Records of shipments of VCM by Dow to 16 Monsanto? 17 A. You mean other than this? (Indicating) 18 Q. Yes, other than page 13 of Exhibit 5? 19 A. Well, obviously I don'thave any with me, 20 no . 21 Q Not with you today, Ms. Griffith, but in 22 your possession or custody in your home or any place 23 else that you have control over? RSV0022822 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 91 1 A. Well, if you call notes, records, I 2 probably do, yes. 3 Q. Those are the notes to which we just 4 referred? 5 A. Yes . 6 Q- Do you have any records in your custody or 7 possession of shipments of VCM by Conoco to Monsanto 8 of VCM? 9 A. I believe I do, yes. 10 Q. Other than page 13 ,of Exhibit 5? 11 A. I believe so, I'd have to look. 12 . Q And other than the notes that we've been 13 talking about? 14 A. No, no, just the notes. 15 Q. Just the notes? 16 A. Mm-hmm. 17 Q. Did somebody tell that you Conoco was at 18 any time a supplier of VCM to Monsanto? 19 A. The man who told me -- I'd spell it wrong. 20 Q. And that was who? 21 A. Joe Zalewa. 22 Q. And what is it that he told you about 23 Conoco's supply of VCM? RSV0022823 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 92 1 A. That he remembered testing it, the 2 monomer. 3 Q. Did he tell you how he happened to 4 remember testing Conoco's VCM? 5 A, No, he didn't tell me. I might have said 6 something about a tank car designation but I don't 7 remember specifically. 8 Q. Did he tell you how many samples of 9 Conoco's VCM he recalled testing? 10 A. He might have said quite a' few or 11 something like that and I said what and -- It's not 12 clear at this time, it happened so long ago. I can't 13 remember the precise conversation. It's been so long 14 ago. 15 Q. Is this something that you believe you 16 have notes on some place? 17 A. I probably took notes, yes, on one of our 18 conversations, probably not the earliest ones. 19 Q. Do you have any records of receipt of VCM 20 by Monsanto from Union Carbide? 21 A. . Other than this? (Indicating) 22 Q. Other than Exhibit 5, page 13 or your 23 personal notes of conversations? RSV0022824 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 93 1 A. No. 2 Q You don't, for example, have any invoices 3 to show that shipments were made by any supplier, 4 right? 5 A. I do not. 6 Q. And you don't have any Monsanto documents 7 that showed it received VCM from any supplier? 8 A. No . 9 Q. Is that true for Dow as well as Union 10 Carbide ? ( 11 A. It is . 12 Q. And is that true as well for Conco as well 13 as Union Carbide? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Page 13 of Exhibit 5 you've described as a 16 page from a personal notebook that you've maintained 17 for a certain period of time; is that right? 18 A. Yes . 19 Q. Can you describe for us what this personal 20 notebook was ? 21 MR. MINOFF: You mean physically 22 what kind of notebook it is? 23 THE WITNESS: What it looked like? RSV0022825 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 94 ri 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 J* 23 Q. (By Ms. Burger) I would like to know -A . (Interposing) It was black with white pages, blue lines and a red outline. It was about three inches by five maybe. Q. So it was a small notebook? A. Yes . Q- Was it a loose-leaf notebook? A. It was a bound notebook. Q. What was the purpose for which you maintained or took notes in this notebook? ~ A. This was the one I started I think in 1974 for safety and health notes in the plant. I didn't use it very long. I went to some other type of notebook so only a few of the pages were used. Q. Were there any references in this personal notebook to Union Carbide? A. No. Q. Were there any references to Dow Chemical? A. No. Q. A. . Were there any references to Conoco Oil? Conoco Oil, no. Q. To Conoco? A. No. RSV0022826 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 95 1 Q- To Conco? 2 A. Just this Oh, you are talking about 3 this page again? (Indicating) 4 Q- I'm sorry. Other than page 13? 5 A. No, there are no other references. 6 Q Just to try and bring closure to this 7 issue, Ms Griffith, can you identify for us the 8 period of time over which you reviewed the data books 9 to find references to VCM testing? 10 A. You mean the entries that are in this 11 notebook? (Indicating) 12 Q- Yes . 13 A. I'd say it was one evening. 14 Q. I don't -- My question I gather was 15 ambiguous I'm not referring to how long it took you 16 to make a review. I'd like to know the years over 17 which the review covered. 18 A. Oh, it was only after Monsanto refused to 19 give me the complete list of chemicals that I was 20 exposed to so it was after the '81 letter. It must 21 have started sometime in ' 8- -- 22 Q. We'll try again. 23 A. You want a date? April something, 1982? RSV0022827 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 96 1 Q. 2 way. No, no. Let me ask the question another 3 A. I'm sorry, I misunderstood the question. 4 Q. I understand that. I'm trying to find a 5 way that the question can be understood in a third 6 way. 7 A. Well, it is afternoon and I do tend to 8 slow down in the afternoon. 9 MR. MINOFF: It also has been asked 10 before. 11 THE WITNESS: Okay, try again, maybe 12 I'll get it this way. 13 Q. (By Ms. Burger) Going back to 1960, which 14 covers the time period when you were looking at -- 15 Withdraw that. 16 What was the time period covered by the 17 records which you reviewed in the data books? 18 A. Oh, that's what you wanted to know. 19 Q. I finally got it right I think. 20 A. As I said before, I'm not clear on the 21 subject.. 22 Q. Your best estimate or memory of the 23 period? RSV0022828 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 97 1 A. Well, I would say, if I had to guess I 2 would say it was from '67 through '70 or so. I might 3 have been curious and got carried away and gone to 4 '12, I don't know. 5 Q. Is it fair to say that you looked roughly 6 at a three- to five-year period? 7 A. I would say yes, three, five. I just 8 couldn't say accurately what I did. 9 Q. For that period of your review did you 10 record in your notes that are here on page 13 of 11 Exhibit 5 all of the entries reflecting a supply of 12 VCM other than Monsanto? 13 A. I tried to but unfortunately I must have 14 missed some because I didn't understand the tank car 1 5 designations. 16 Q. What do you mean, unfortunately you must 17 have missed some? 18 A. Well, I understood later through Joe and 19 other people that Conoco was CONX and Goodrich was V 20 or something else and GATX -- I still don't know what 21 that is but if I had been looking at tank car 22 designations I would have done a better job. 23 As it was, I was looking for Dow, Goodrich RSV0022829 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 98 _I 1 and Conco Company on the designation so I think I 2 missed a lot. And, as I said, I wasn't primarily 3 interested in that anyway. At the time I was wasn't 4 primarily interested in suppliers. 5 Q. Did you mark down every supplier and tank 6 car number from the data sheets you reviewed for that 7 period? 8 A. No, I'm sure I didn't. 9 Q. And that's because you would not -- you 10 were not able to identify them at that time? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Did you personally ever write a tank car 13 number on a string tag? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Did you ever personally see a designation 16 on a tank car? 17 A. Yes, several times. 18 Q. . And were those tank cars VCM designated? 19 A. I don't know. 20 Q. Do you know whether or not the designation 21 that you. saw on tank cars were tank cars which were 22 carrying VCM? 23 A. I think I assumed they were because the COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION RSV0022830 PHILBIN Sc ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 99 1 configuration of the tank car but I couldn't tell you 2 that I knew absolutely it was a VCM tank car. 3 Q. When was the -- 4 A. (Interposing) Well, they were 5 compressurized. 6 Q. I'm sorry? 7 A. They were compressurized. 8 Q. What was the configuration of the tank 9 cars? 10 A. They were the only ones that I knew of 11 that were, so they looked -- their silhouette was a 12 little different but I'm no.t an expert so I couldn't 13 tell you. 14 Q. What identifications did you observe on 15 any tank cars? 16 A. I don't remember any of them. 17 Q. Absolutely no memory? 18 A. None of them at all. 19 Q. Did you personally ever write a number 20 from a string tag on a data sheet? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And with respect to the entries on page 13 23 of Exhibit 5, none of those were instances where you RSV0022831 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 100 had written the number from the string tag to the data sheet, correct? A . The four entries are you talking about now? Q- The four entries that start with M 33010 that go down Dow, Conco and Goodrich? A. That's correct. Q. If the data said April 26, 1968 or '69, you would have been the one to write that number from the tag to the book number? A. Yes, I would. Q- Do you personally know where the East Control Lab file -- Withdraw that. What is the East Control Lab file to which you referred in our last deposition, do you remember? A. I don't know what lab file you are referring to. Do you mean where we filed data books? Q. Does calling something East Control Lab file have any meaning to you as you sit here today? A. I would have to know the context. It might have been a general term I used when I was talking about a lot of different sources. Q. After you examined the data books that RSV0022832 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME IX 101 1 we've been talking about, did you return them to the 2 same location from which you had gotten them? 3 A. Yes. There were data books and there were 4 data sheets in loose-leaf notebooks. And the format 5 had changed, well, I think just before I left so I 6 returned everything that I had used to its former 7 place. 8 Q. Okay. Did you bring with you today the 9 list of chemicals to which you say you were exposed 10 and which you mentioned to us the last time you were 11 with us ? 12 A. No, I didn't. 13 Q. Where were you physically when you 14 reviewed the data books and made the entries that 15 you've put on page 13 of Exhibit 5? 16 A. I was on the first floor of the 10 Lab. 17 Q. When you had the discussion with Mr. 18 Zalewa regarding Conoco's supply of VCM to Monsanto, 19 was anyone else present other than you and Mr. 20 Zalewa? Let me withdraw that. 21 Was the conversation that you had with Mr. 22 Zalewa regarding the suppliers of VCM in person or on 23 the telephone? RSV0022833 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 102 1 A. I think the earliest one might have been 2 in person. 3 Q. Was anyone else present during that 4 in-person conversation? 5 A. I don't recall I don't recall. 6 Q. Any subsequent conversations you had with 7 him on the subject of suppliers was on the telephone? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Was anyone else on the phone with you? 3.0 A. Not that I know of, you never know. I 11 didn ' t hear an 12 Q. Ms . 13 depo sit ion in 14 with Mr . Mi nof 15 A. Me e 16 Q Yes 17 A. Why 18 MR. MINOFF: Just answer the 19 ques tio n. 20 THE WITNESS: They are not my 21 a tto rne ys. 22 Q. (By 23 A. No. RSV0022834 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 103 1 Q. Did you spend any time speaking with Mr. 2 Minoff or Mr. Tourtelotte over the telephone on the 3 fact that you were to be deposed? 4 A. I think I acknowledged receipt of the 5 letter when I called Keith. Yes, I did talk with him 6 then when I got the letter. 7 Q. Did you discuss what was going to take 8 place at your deposition? 9 A. Well, we talked briefly about it, you. 10 Know, 11 Q. Prior to having your deposition noticed in 12 May or April, had you, prior to that, had 13 conversations with either Mr. Minoff or Mr. 14 Tourtelotte about Mr. Warren's case? 15 A. I had no conversations with Mr. 16 Tourtelotte. I did have conversation with Mr. 17 Minoff. 18 Q. And do you recall when you first spoke 19 with him? 20 A. No, I don't. 21 Q. And do you recall the substance of your 22 conversations with him? 23 A. It was to do with the John Warren case RSV0022835 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II TOT 1 that was our sole conversation. 2 Q. Did you discuss with him the suppliers of 3 VCM to Monsanto? 4 A. I believe we did. 5 Q. And do you recall what you told him about 6 the suppliers of VCM? 7 A. X think I tried to tell him what I have 8 told you today about what my notebook said and the 9 talks with Joe Zalewa. 10 Q ( Were you approached by Mr. Minoff to speak 11 with him? 12 A. I can't remember whether it was Mrs. 13 Warren or Mr. Minoff, probably, yes. Since we met it 14 must have been that way. 15 Q Did you actually meet with him in person? 16 A. Yes . 17 Q. And this was sometime before your 18 deposition? 19 A. Yes, yes. 20 Q. How long did you spend with him on that 21 occasion.? 22 A. I have no idea. 23 Q. Did you meet with him here in his office? RSV0022836 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 105 1 A. No , 2 Q- He came to your home? 3 A. Yes . 4 Q- And you can't recall whether you met with 5 him for five minutes or an hour or half an hour? 6 A. Well, I could give you an idea, maybe an 7 hour. 8 Q. Was Mrs. Warren present? 9 A. No, no one else also was present. 10 Q. Was'anyone else present? 11 A. Not that I know of, no, no. 12 Q. You've just said that you do not know Mrs. 13 Warren, correct? 14 A. I don't know her personally -- I do know 15 her personally, yes, but I've only spoken with her on 16 the phone and written to her. 17 Q. And you've never met her? 18 A. No. 19 Q. You have written to her? 20 A, Yes . 21 Q. About the death of your husband? 22 A. Yes . 23 Q. Did you retain copies of your RSV0022837 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II TW 1 correspondence to Mrs. Warren? 2 A. No. Well, maybe one that had something to 3 do with, seems to me I did keep a copy of a letter. 4 There was some question she asked me. I can't recall 5 offhand but normally it was a personal, you know, 6 personal correspondence, Christmas card. 7 Q. When you speak of Mrs. Warren are you 8 speaking of, is it Louise, is that her first name? 9 A. I believe it's Louise, yes. 10 Q. Have you ever spoken with either of John 11 Warren's sons? 12 A. No, no, I never have. 13 Q. Have you ever met either of them? 14 A. No, I never have. 15 Q. When was the -- I think it's Alice Warren? 16 A. Alice Louise. She goes by the name 17 Louise, yes. Alice is her first name. 18 Q- I thought I was getting confused there. 19 When was the first time you spoke with 20 Louise Warren? 21 A. . It was shortly after her husband died. 22 Q. What was the circumstance under which you 23 happened to speak with her? RSV0022838 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 107 1 A. She phoned me and asked me if I knew John 2 had died of angiosarcoma and I didn't. 3 Q. Do you know how she came to call you in 4 particular? 5 A. She said that somebody at Monsanto had 6 suggested that she might contact me for some 7 information about vinyl chloride. I think it was 8 someone John had worked with but I can't offhand 9 recall his name. I think impersonally I knew who he 10 was but I didn't know the man personally. 11 Q. You didn't know John Warren personally? 12 A. Well, I didn't know John personally but I 13 knew who he was, you know, to say hi to. 14 Q. You didn't know the person who Louise 15 Warren identified as having referred her toyou? 16 A. Yes. I didn't know him personally. 17 Q. And you say you did not personally know 18 John Warren either other than that you could identify 19 him? 20 A. Yes. I -- The last time I saw him I 21 didn't recognize him because he had changed so much 22 but I would have recognized him, you know, a few 23 years earlier. RSV0022839 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 108 1 Q. Was he a friend of yours? 2 A. No. 3 Q Was he simply a business acquaintance of 4 yours ? 5 A. He was in the same union on the picket 6 line, occasionally brought samples over to the lab. 7 During his last few years he visited the Saflex lab. 8 Q. Have you spoken with Mrs. Warren about her 9 husband's illness? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And can you tell us generally what those 12 conversations have been? 13 A. Well, what any widow likes to talk about, 14 how difficult the last few weeks were, the last 15 months, and regretting the fact that she didn't have 16 really a chance to spend time with him while he was 17 still John Warren and all kinds of guilt, that he 18 couldn't enjoy his retirement. 19 Q. Did you discuss with her the illness 20 itself in terms of it being cancer as opposed to a 21 heart condition or anything like that? 22 A. Yes, when she did bring it up. I didn't 23 bring it up, she did. RSV002284Q COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 109 1 Q. What was the substance of that 2 conversation? 3 A. I didn't know whether I should mention the 4 connection between angiosarcoma and vinyl chloride if 5 she didn't know but it was obvious right away that 6 she knew more about it than I did because she had 7 been aware of it before John died I guess. And I 8 think she did most of the talking but she did tell me 9 that she had an attorney. She told me the attorney's 10 name and I volunteered my assistance if shd should 11 need my help or anything in my file about PVC, I 12 would be glad to help her or her attorneys at any 13 time and to talk to them at any time. 14 (A recess was taken.) 15 (Reporter read back as requested.) 16 17 Q. (By Ms.Burger) Ms.Griffith, would you 18 be equally happy to help Union Carbide or Dow 19 Chemical or Conoco Oil in this case? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Would you be in, infact,reluctant to 22 help them in this case? 23 A. Yes. RSV0022841 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 110 1 Q. And is that because you personally feel 2 that the chemical industry has been irresponsible? 3 MR. MINOFF: Objection to form. 4 THE WITNESS: I didn't say that. I 5 don't even imply that. That's a strange jump. 6 Q. (By Ms. Burger) Fine. Then you don't 7 feel that way? 8 A. I don't feel that way. 9 Q. Are you angry with the chemical industry? 10 A. I was very angry at Monsanto and all the 11 other companies but you can't be angry very long. 12 I'm no longer angry but I wouldn't waste my time when 13 my time is limited. I wouldn't waste my time trying 14 to help entities that don't need help. A lot of 15 people don't have a million bucks and need help. 16 Those are the people that I'm trying to offer help 17 to. 18 Q. So your sole differentiation between 19 helping Mrs. Warren and helping the defendants in 20 this case is that she doesn't have money and the 21 chemical, companies do? 22 MR, MINOFF: Objection to the form. 23 THE WITNESS: No, I didn't say that. RSV0022842 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 111 1 I said I don't have the time. If I had time to help 2 everyone I probably would for the experience alone, I 3 probably would be glad to sit down with Mr. Dow or 4 whoever the guy is and say what the hell have you 5 guys been doing for 40 years. You know, we've got a 6 lot of people dead. I think I would enjoy it. I 7 don't have the time. It's an indulgence, you know, 8 with the limited time and limited resources and 9 limited abilities I have I would rather put limits on 10 people that I can probably not help but at least 11 listen to. 12 Q. Do you personally hope to see Mrs. Warren 13 win this lawsuit? 14 A. I certainly do. 15 Q. Do you, in fact, Ms. Griffith, have any 16 personal knowledge about who the suppliers of VCM 17 were to Monsanto? 18 A. My personal -- I don't understand the 19 question, personal knowledge. 20 Q. In other words, personal knowledge meaning 21 that which you saw with your own eyes- or heard with 22 your own ears as opposed to somebody telling you 23 something or your reading it some place? RSV0022843 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 112 1 A. Or reading it? 2 Q. Yes. 3 A. I -- At the time I didn't know what I was 4 looking at. I was completely ignorant and I know now 5 that I probably should have recognized some other 6 tank car numbers but I didn't at the time so I don't 7 have any personal knowledge of the time either when I 8 was testing VCR -- VCM or when I was assisting 9 testing VCM. I have no knowledge, personal 10 knowledge, of suppliers otherthan Monsanto. 11 Q. And what is the basis of your personal 12 knowledge that Monsanto was a supplier of VCM to 13 itself? 14 A. Well, I really don't know that I worked on 15 vinyl chloride. I'm beginning to doubt, you know, 16 whether I really worked on vinyl chloride. I 17 couldn't prove it to you, you know, in court. How 18 can you prove it? I can't. I can't prove it was 19 vinyl chloride monomer. 20 Q. Ms. Griffith, truly, I'm not trying to 21 trick you. I'm only trying to exhaust your personal 22 knowledge. 23 A. You are exhausting me. RSVQ022844 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 113 1 Q. But am I exhausting your personal 2 knowledge; that's the question. 3 Let me just clarify or make certain of one 4 thing; With respect to the entries you've put on 5 page 13 of Exhibit 5 where it says, for instance, M 6 33010, then the date 9/10/69, did you copy down 7 specifically that which you saw on a data sheet? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And with respect to the entry that said 10 Dow X 3337 and the date 7/19/68, were all of those 11 words and numbers on the data sheet that you looked 12 at? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. So both the word "Dow" was there and the 15 number "X 3337" was on that sheet? 16 A. That's correct. 17 Q. And the same for Concowhere it said 18 either Conco, C-O-N-C-O, a misspelling, or Conoco, 19 C-O-N-O-C-O, on it, also with the letters CONX 9066 20 and the date 10/14/68 on the data sheet? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And the Goodrich V82527, dated 10/14/68, 23 that entry also was in that form on the data sheet? RSV0022845 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 114 1 A. Yes, it was. 2 MR. MINOFF: With the word 3 "Goodrich"? 4 MS. BURGER: Yes. 5 MR. MINOFF: I don't think you said 6 that in your question. 7 MS. BURGER: Let me ask the question 8 again. 9 THE WITNESS: Ask the question 10 again, please. 11 Q. (By Ms. Burger) You looked at a data 12 sheet from which you wrote down the information, 13 "Goodrich V8 2527, 10/14/68," correct? 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. Did that data sheet have on it the word 16 " Goodrich"? 17 A. Yes, it did. 18 Q. It also had the number "V8 2527"? 19 A. It did. 20 Q. Is it now your understanding that the 21 letter V., for instance, in this Goodrich entry 22 standing alone connotes Goodrich? 23 A. No, not necessarily. I've never been told RSV0022846 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 115 1 that. 2 Q. So you don't have that understanding now 3 either, correct? 4 A. No, no. I just copied what I saw down 5 there. I don't know whether it does or whether it 6 doesn't. 7 Q. Is it your understanding that the prefix 8 CONX designates Conoco in any way? 9 A. No, just happened to be there. 10 Q. Is it your understanding that the prefix 11 X, as in the Dow entry you have on this page 13, 12 Exhibit 5, in any way designates Dow? 13 A. No . 14 Q. How long did a typical VCM test take on a 15 sample? 16 A. Most of the tests took a long period. 17 Actual working time you mean or how long you had to 18 wait for the answers? 19 Q. Both. 20 A. Oh, probably close to eight hours I think, 21 about one shift. 22 Q. Eight hours to do what, perform the test 23 or wait for the results? RSV0022847 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 116 1 A. Well, before you could complete the test I 2 think there was one that had to be -- Let me see. We 3 rarely did them. 4 You are talking about a single test now? 5 Was your question about a single test, one tank car? 6 Q. My question relates it one bomb. 7 A. One tank, one tank. We rarely did one at 8 a time. I actually can't recall what the overall 9 period -- I know it was a full night's work when we 10 had a few bombs but if you had one, I can't even 11 remember what the longest test was right now. 12 If it's important I could look up my 13 notebook for my test procedures and maybe refresh my 14 memory. 15 Q. We can go forward. I appreciate that. 16 Did you ever observe personally on any 17 string tag the word Conco or Conoco? 18 A. I don't think I did. I couldn't be sure 19 but I don't think I did. 20 Q. Did you ever observe on any string tag the 21 word Dow? 22 A. I'm not sure whether I did or not. 23 Q. You have no present memory about whether RSV0022848 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 117 1 you did or not? 2 A. No. 3 Q. So you also couldn't tall me how many you 4 would have seen with Dow on it? 5 A. No, I just have no recollection of ever 6 seeing that company name. 7 Q. Then I take it -8 A. (Interposing) Although something about 9 this does look familiar but I just don't remember 10 that clearly. (Indicating) 11 Q. Did you ever observe the letter M as an 12 initial letter before a number on any string tag? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And did you have any understanding about 15 what the M stood for? 16 A. I just assumed it wasMonsanto or maybe 17 someone told me, I don't remember. 18 Q. Did you ever see a string tag with the 19 word or words Union Carbide on it? 20 A. No. 21 Q.. Did you ever see a string tag with the 22 prefix MONX on it? 23 A. Yes, many times. RSV0022849 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 118 1 Q. What does MONX represent? 2 A. Well, I was told Monsanto. 3 Q. Who told you that? 4 A. I don 1t recall. 5 Q. And did you see so many string tags with 6 the prefix MONX on it that you couldn't count them 7 for us now? 8 A. No, there are so many, GATX, MONX. 9 Q. Did you see many string tags then with 10 GATX on it? "ll A. Yes. 12 Q. Other than GATX or MONX do you recall any 13 other letters or prefixes which you observed on 14 string tags? 15 A. Not on string tags but I seemed to 16 remember the tank car number SH somewhere and I 17 seemed to be the only one that remembers it so it 18 probably wasn't vinyl chloride monomer but something 19 keeps coming back about SH, I saw it somewhere. 20 Q. Do you know what SH represented? 21 A. , No, no, I have no idea what SH means. 22 Q. Why did you ask Joe Tierney or somebody 23 who was working in the tank farm whether the MONX RSV0Q22850 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 119 1 symbol on the string tag identified a supplier? 2 A. I think we had a question -- Well, this 3 was the time when Monsanto was -- we were told it was 4 getting other suppliers and the question came up 5 about identifying the contents by car number, the 6 tank car number- And there was discussion in the lab 7 and no one could agree about whether you could tell 8 what was inside by the tank car number. I don't 9 remember ever asking Tierney specifically about MONX. 10 ;I mean if you are going to identify your own tank car 11 you would probably use your own name and Monsanto is 12 pretty close to MONX- I don't remember the. -- 13 Someone probably told me years ago, I mean not just 14 when I -15 Q. (Interposing) Let me -16 A. -- worked on it. 17 Q. Let me try and narrow this down for you so 18 you understand why I'm asking. When you were deposed 19 last time -20 MR- MINOFF: (Interposing) What 21 page is that? 22 MS. BURGER: I'm going to try to get 23 to the beginning of it before I state a page. Page RSV0022851 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 120 1 84 . 2 Q- (By Ms. Burger) I'm going to read you the 3 answer that starts at page 83. If you need to go 4 back and review or have me read more to you I will 5 but I think this will be enough. 6 You were answering: "Yes, Attorneys for 7 Defendant B.F. Goodrich. Now, it made me think about 8 my the response I got to a question I had about 9 how do you know what's in the tank car by the name. 10 I asked this either to Joe Tierney or somebody who 11 was working on the tank farm. 12 "If it's labeled MONX or some other number 13 are you sure you know who the supplier is. And he 14 said. No. And I said. Why not. He said, It's 15 because they lease cars sometimes. You know, if you 16 have extra cars or you're down or something, so if 17 somebody incoming in a GATX might be a Monsanto car 18 and at the time I accepted that." 19 I've read that to you just for a frame of 20 reference; that's where my question comes from, which 21 is: Why. did you ask Joe Tierney or somebody who was 22 working on the tank farm why the MONX on the string 23 tank identified the supplier? RSVQ022852 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 121 1 A. Well, as I say, my concern then was if we 2 could tell any of these other suppliers by the tank 3 car numbers. 4 Q. And this was back in the late 1960's? 5 A. Well, in this case it was the sixties when 6 I was actually working on them. It wasn't earlier I 7 don't believe. 8 Q. Why were you concerned about who the 9 supplier was at that time? 10 A. Because we were told we were testing 11 something different, you know, this was different, 12 something we had never done before. And it seems to 13 me the qualitative control lab was involved because 14 they were doing extra testing. They were doing 15 special testing of some of the suppliers so it was, 16 you know, if the name of the company wasn't on the 17 tag, was there any way -- I'm just surmising this is 18 why I asked the question. I'm not sure I asked Joe 19 Tierney about it but I asked somebody working on the 20 tank farm, either an operator or Joe or some foreman 21 or something. 22 Q- Ms. Griffith, you said in the answer that 23 I've just read to you that at the time you were told RSV0022853 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 122 1 that you couldn't necessarily know who the supplier 2 was from the number that was on the tank car? 3 A. Mm-hmm. 4 Q. That you accepted that? 5 A. I did, yes. 6 Q. And later on inyour testimony, about 7 another page or so, you said -- Question on page 85. 8 Question: "And that indicated -- As a 9 result of that conversation you came to believe that 10 not all of the tank cars containing VCM were from 11 Monsanto?" 12 Answer: "Well, I was concerned -- I 13 didn't believe that. To answer your question: I did 14 not believe the answer but that was the answer I got. 15 I answered your question: I did not believe the 16 answer." 17 A. Yes, that is confusing. Do you have the 18 question? 19 Q. Yes. The question is: Did you believe 20 Mr. Tierney or whomever it was when you were told 21 that you. could not identify the supplier of the VCM 22 by the number on the tank car? 23 A. Yes, at first I did. At the time I was RSV0022854 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 123 1 told that I believed it. 2 Q. At some later time did you come to 3 disbelieve it? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. When did you come to disbelieve it? 6 A. Shortly after if I remember correctly. 7 Q. Why did you come to disbelieve it? 8 A. I don't remember why. Some conversation 9 or some information I got. It was something from 10 inside Monsanto. 11 Q. As you sit here today do you have any 12 basis for disbelieving that you cannot identify the 13 source or supplier of VCM from the number on the tank 14 car? 15 MR. MINOFF: Objection to form. I 16 couldn't follow the negatives. 17 MS. BURGER: I'll ask the question 18 over. 19 Q (By Ms. Burger) As you sit here today 20 do you have any reason to doubt what Mr. Tierney or 21 someone else from the farm, tank farm-, told you? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And what is that reason? RSV0022855 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 124 1 A. Well, I doubt anything I was told now. 2 You know, I have no reason to doubt and I have no 3 reason to believe. I just don't know the answer to 4 that question and I probably will never know the 5 answer to that question. 6 Q. Do you know whether in fact you can 7 identify for certain the supplier of VCM by the 8 designation on the tank car? 9 A. As a f act, no. 10 Q. Do you know whether samples of VCM were 11 taken from tank cars on the same day that the tank 12 cars arrived at Monsanto? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Do you have any idea theperiod oftime 15 which a tank car would sit at Monsanto before a 16 sample was taken? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Do you know how long VCM, once itgot from 19 a tank car into a storage tank, would beheld there? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Do you know how long ittook toget VCM 22 from a storage tank into a kettle for processing? 23 A. I have no idea. RSV0022856 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 1 125 1 Q. Do you know how long the processing took 2 once the VCM got into a kettle? 3 A. A few hours. I really have no idea. I 4 don't know. 5 Q. Aside from your entry on page 13 of 6 Exhibit 5 and now the conversations which you've told 7 us you had with Mr. Zalewa -8 A. (Interposing) Zalewa. 9 Q. -- Zalewa and Mr. Williams, is there any 10 other basis which leads you to believe that Conoco 11 was a supplier of VCM to Monsanto? 12 A I can't recall that there are any. There 13 might be but at this moment I can't recall any 14 others. 15 Q. Okay. Other than page 13 of Exhibit 5 -16 A. Yes. 17 Q. -- and conversations that you had with 18 either Mr. Zalewa or Mr. Williams, is there any other 19 basis that you have to believe that Dow was a 20 supplier of VCM to Monsanto? 21 A. Yes. There are others that told me that 22 Dow was involved. 23 Q. And who were the others? RSV0022857 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 126 1 A. Well, Carl Rehm was one. There was 2 another analyst. I think the Dow name came up quite 3 often in the latter part of, you know, what this time 4 is -- that I'd have to check my notes. I really am 5 not clear on who told what. 6 Q. When you say you have to check your notes, 7 are those the ones that I've asked you to look for? 8 A. The telephone notes. 9 Q. Is there anyone else besides Mr. Zalewa, 10 Mr. Williams and Mr. Rehm that told you that Dow /had 11 been a supplier? 12 A. As I said, I can't remember. 13 Q. Okay. Other than conversations you had 14 with either Mr. Zalewa, Mr. Williams or Mr. Rehm, is 15 there any other basis for you to believe that Union 16 Carbide was ever a supplier of VCM to Monsanto? 17 A. As I said, I can't recall the names of 18 these people and who told me what company. 19 Q. Okay. Was every tank car of VCM tested 20 before it was used? 21 A. That was my impression. I was told that. 22 Whether it was or not, you will have to ask Monsanto. 23 Q. And it was your understanding that if a RSV0O22858 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 127 1 VCM sample failed to pass the specs it would be sent 2 back to the supplier? 3 A. Well, ideally but usually it was blended 4 off or used in junk, a junk batch which could be used 5 in 85 Building. I think it was rare that they 6 actually returned it because it was expensive. 7 Q. What do you mean by "blended off"? 8 A. Well, if you have -- They made several 9 different products of PVC and some you needed better 10 raw material than others. So if you got a bad batch 11 you could blend it with some good batches and some of 12 these less demanding formulas and if the batch didn't 13 take -- turn out right -- then you could ship it 14 right next door to 85 Building and they could make 15 film or compound out of it. 16 Q. Do you know what the prefix CVX stands for 17 before a tank car or other number? 18 A. No. 19 MR. MINOFF: CVX? 20 THE WITNESS: I have seen it but I 21 have no idea what it stands for. I assume it stands 22 for a supplier. 23 Q. (By Ms. Burger) Do you know how many RSV0022859 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 128 r ' 1 storage tanks there were for VCM at Monsanto? 2 A. No . 3 Q. Do you know if it was more than five? 4 A. No . 5 Q. Do you know how many kettles there were in 6 which VCM was processed? 7 A. I did know at one time but I have 8 forgotten 9 Q- Do you know whether it's more than five? 10 A. I would say more than five, yes. 11 Q. Do you know whether it's more than ten? 12 i__ i 13 A. No . Q. When did Louise Warren send you a picture 14 of John Warren? 15 A. Sometime this year. 16 Q. Why did she do that? 17 A. I asked her for it. 18 Q. Why did you ask for a picture? 19 A. Well, I was -- I was thinking about it and 20 I wasn't sure if I got the right man. I knew I knew 21 John Warren but I wasn't sure so she sent me a 22 picture. 23 Q. Have you spoken with Mrs. Warren since RSV0022860 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 129 1 your deposition was taken in May? 2 A, Yes, I have. 3 Q. Did you call her or did she call you? 4 A. I don't remember which. 5 Q. And what was the substance of the 6 conversation you had with her after your deposition? 7 A. Oh, I guess we talked about how it went 8 and I said it was eight hours and I didn't think we 9 accomplished anything. No offense. 10 Q Did you discuss with her the lawsuit and 11 how it's going at any time? 12 A. Well, there wasn't anything to discuss. 13 Q. So the answer is no? 14 A. No. Well, we might have said, you know, 15 how is it going and it's been this long and, you 16 know, we discussed it but not at any great length 17 because there wasn't anything to say. 18 Q. When you were deposed last you identified 19 four buildings, 86, 88, 84 and 92, which were all in 20 Department 80; do you remember that? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And you told us that John Warren was in 23 Department 80? RSV0022861 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 130 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And the basis of your knowledge that he 3 was in Department 80 was your reference to union 4 materials; is that right? 5 A. That was one -- that was one of means. 6 Q. And other sources of that information were 7 what ? 8 A. Harold Williams worked with him so he knew 9 he worked in Department 80. 10 Q. Do you have any personal knowledge of when 11 in time Mr. Warren, in fact, worked in Building 86? 12 A. Our records. You are talking about our 13 seniority records, which started in '51 so if he 14 started -- I wouldn't have -- I'd have a department 15 number, I wouldn't have a building designation. 16 Q. And my question simply is: Do you have 17 any knowledge of whether, in fact, Mr. Warren worked 18 in Building 86? 19 A. I think Harold told me he was there when 20 Harold worked there, which would have been '49. 21 That's the only knowledge. I don't have any direct 22 knowledge. 23 Q. And, Ms. Griffith, that would be RSV0022862 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 131 1 specifically that he worked in Building 86 in 1949? 2 A. Yes, because Harold worked there. That's 3 the only -- 4 Q. Okay. Other than the 1949 do you have any 5 information which would tell you whether Mr. Warren 6 worked in Building 86? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Do you have any basis for knowing that Mr. 9 Warren worked in Building 88 at any specific time? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Do you have any basis for knowing that 12 John Warren worked in Building 84 at any specific 13 time? 14 A. Just through Harold and people he worked 15 with. 16 Q. Did Harold Williams tell you that John 17 Warren worked in Building 84 at some specific time? 18 A. All he told me was that he worked in all 19 of them but, you know, I didn't look it up or check 20 it with anyone or ask Mrs. Warren. 21 Q. I take it then you also don't know 22 specifically of any time when Mr. Warren worked in 23 Building 92? RSV0022863 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 132 A. Well, I know he worked in 92 when it was changed over from PVC. Q. Okay. With respect to exposure to VCM? A. VCM, no. Q. Do you know of anytime when Mr. Warren, if ever, actually worked in Building 92? A. No, no. Q. What caused you to ask Harold Williams where John Warren worked? A. I think I was comparing John's record with the other angiosarcoma case. I wanted to know if they had worked in PVC, the same building, same time, for the length of time and the only way I could do it was to ask someone who had worked for John for a long period. Q. Ms. Griffith, what is the other angiosarcoma case to which you refer? A. Another Monsanto worker -Q. (Interposing) And who is that? A. -- whose name escapes me. Q. . You knew I was going to ask. A. No. A French name. Q. Did you say a French name? Did this RSV0022864 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 133 1 person die? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Do you recall when he died? 4 A. Oh, he died a long time ago, in the late 5 seventies . 6 MR. MINOFF: Messier? 7 THE WITNESS: No, no. That wasn't 8 cancer . 9 Q. (By Ms. Burger) Has Mrs. Warren ever told 10 you in which buildings Mr. Warren worked? 11 A. I don't know whether we mentioned building 12 numbers or not. I don't know whether the numbers 13 meant much to her. She knew he worked in more than 14 one . 15 A. Charles Giroux, G-I-R-O-U-X, Charles. 16 Q. Can you spell that again? 17 A. G-I-R-O-U-X. 18 Q. What were the dangers associated with VCM 19 about which you were warned? 20 A. Flammability mostly, explosions, narcotic 21 effect, heavy doses but primarily explosion. I think 22 we were told time and time again about that. 23 Q. Were you directed to wear any type of RSV0022865 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 137 1 Q. And did you feel that you were lied to by 2 Monsanto? 3 A. I definitely did. 4 Q. What was the lie that you believe you were 5 told? 6 A. Well, there are hundreds of them but the 7 principal ones, that we were never warned about 8 cancer. I was never told benzene or any of the other 9 carcinogens were carcinogens, even long after they 10 knew it. We were never told about any chronic 11 long-term effects of any of the chemicals. We were 12 told that something will burn or it will explode and 13 be careful of fire. Fire was -- They were always 14 concentrating on fire because the record of fires 15 wasn't very good. And then everything changed when 16 the publicity of vinyl chloride came out in '72, '73, 17 angiosarcoma. 18 Q. How did it change? 19 A. Well, we started looking at it for the 20 first time. I started looking it at it for the first 21 time and looking at the people dying around us. 22 There were some people who had died earlier perhaps 23 from vinyl chloride that we hadn't associated with RSV0022866 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME XI 138 1 that exposure. Even after '74 the safety manuals 2 never changed much. They never mentioned cancer. 3 They were still talking about vague terms, about 4 handling it with care and we felt we should have 5 known everything that Monsanto had known. We trusted 6 Monsanto to know more than we did. We trusted them 7 to know that benzene was dangerous, styrene was 8 dangerous, not in ways that they told us it was 9 dangerous but in other ways. And the confidence we 10 had was misplaced. 11 Q. Were you ever led to believe by anyone at 12 Monsanto that any of these materials -- and I think 13 you've mentioned benzene, styrene and, of course, 14 polyvinyl -- Strike that -- VCM -- were you ever told 15 by anyone at Monsanto that these materials were not 16 dangerous, I mean other than for explosion or? 17 A. Yes, we were told -- the typical thing, 18 these are so safe you can eat it, like PVC. The 19 engineer said you could eat a sandwich of PVC it was 20 so safe. I think he was encouraged to eat one 21 several times after that. 22 Q. Who was the engineer? 23 A. I don't know, the late engineer. RSV0022867 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 139 1 Q. Was it a Monsanto engineer? 2 A . Yes, yes . 3 A. Everyone knew he was a dim ball but he 4 still was in a position of authority and he should 5 have known better. But I worked at Monsanto for 6 almost 40 years and I was never told that anything 7 would cause cancer until the time I retired in 1982, 8 never, ever. 9 Q. Did you ever have reason to believe that 10 Monsanto had such knowledge but did not release it to 11 you? 12 A. As I say, with -- I understood or accepted 13 that Monsanto knew more than we did, that was their 14 job. They were supposed to know all of these things 15 about the chemicals; that's what they had research 16 and medical research for and it would filter down to 17 us in a way that would protect us. They didn't have 18 to scare the hell out of us but you shouldn't get 19 stuff on your skin. They should say not only will it 20 burn but 20 years down the line you are going to get 21 melanoma or something. 22 If they had, if they had protected us or 23 protected anyone properly with their knowledge, like RSV0022868 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES L' 1___ 1 VOLUME II i 140 1 in 1961 when they knew vinyl chloride caused liver 2 disease, even John Warren might still be alive today. 3 Q. Now, you just mentioned that Monsanto knew 4 in 1961 that VCM caused liver disease; is that 5 correct? 6 A. Well, Dow knew it. I think they shared 7 all that knowledge with the industry. 8 Q. Okay. Do you have any specific knowledge 9 that Monsanto had that awareness in 1961? 10 A. Np, just what I read somewhere, that they 11 were instructed at a meeting of some kind that -- I 12 think they knew it, probably suspected it before. 13 MR. RENDINI: I have no further 14 questions. 15 MS. BURGER: I'll just ask hopefully 16 a quick question. 17 * it * * * 18 RECROSS EXAMINATION BY MS. BURGER 19 Q. You say in 1961 you believed that Dow knew 20 that VCM caused liver disease; is that right? 21 A. . Yes. 22 Q. What's the basis of your statement? 23 A. Well, there was a study they did of RSV0022869 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 141 1 animals that caused severe liver disease in an animal 2 study that Dow sponsored. I don't have -- I don't 3 know who did the study. I don't have the study 4 itself. 5 Q. Have you seen the study? 6 A. I think I read the study or a summary of 7 it years ago. I don't have it, no. 8 Q. Do you know what it was called, the study? 9 A. No, I have no idea. 10 Q. Do you redall how the study came to your 11 attention? 12 A. Yes, because I was reading a chronology, 13 you know, of PVC. And then there was a big meeting 14 of industry at some time, they were invited to 15 discuss this, the impact of the these study results 16 on their industry. And it was after that that they 17 decided voluntarily to reduce their standards from 18 500 to 50 parts per million. 19 MS. BURGER: Okay. Thank you. 20 THE WITNESS: Okay. 21 MR. MINOFF: I have no questions 22 MR. RENDINI: I'd just like to point 23 out that there were some documents that were RSV0022870 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 142 r1 L _i 1 mentioned in the first deposition that we were 2 supposed to get copies of. What I'll do is just send 3 a letter. 4 MS. BURGER: I have the OSHA 5 complaint number that you asked for. 6 MR. RENDINI: What is that complaint 7 number? 8 MS. BURGER: Okay, the date was May 9 21st, 1982, CSHO No. G3644, Report 178. That was 10 Springfield, Massachusetts/' 11 (The deposition was concluded.) 12 13 14 ****** 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION RSY0022871 PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II 143 COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS COUNTY OF FRANKLIN I, Kathleen M. Houghton, a Notary Public within and for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts at large, do hereby certify that I took the deposition of RUTH G. GRIFFITH, pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, at the offices of Robinson, Donovan, Madden & Barry, P.C., 1500 Main Street, Springfield, Massachusetts 01115 on November 7, 1990. I further certify that the above-mentioned deponent was by me first duly sworn to testify to the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth concerning her knowledge in the matter of the case of ALICE L. WARREN, ADMINISTRATRIX OF THE ESTATE OF JOHN H. WARREN, DECEASED vs. THE DOW CHEMICAL COMPANY, ET ALS, now pending in the United States District Court for the District of Massachusetts. I further certify that the within testimony taken by me stenographically and reduced to typewritten form under my direction by means of COMPUTER ASSISTED TRANSCRIPTION; and I further certify that said deposition is a true record of testimony given by said witness. was the I further certify that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties to the action in which this deposition was taken; and, further, that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney or counsel employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of the action. WITNESS my hand and seal this 26th day of November, 1990. My commission expires April 17, 1992. Notary Public Shorthand Reporter RSV0022872 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES VOLUME II ' 114 r ii 1__J t 1 SIGNATURE PAGE - ERRATA SHEET 2 3 I, the undersigned, Ruth G. Griffith, do hereby certify that I have read the foregoing transcript of 4 my testimony given in the matter of WARREN vs. THE DOW CHEMICAL COMPANY, et als, and that to the best of 5 my knowledge, said transcript is true and accurate (with the exception of the following corrections 6 listed below): 7 Page : Line: 8 9 #m 10 11 12 ** ## ! ' 13 14 * 15 * * 16 * * 17 * 18 19 DEPONENT'S SIGNATURE: DATE 20 21 22 kmh 23 RSV0022873 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION PHILBIN & ASSOCIATES