Document QqeMKooezo07Xyavq4a9mkDv

1 1 IN THE COMMONWEALTH COURT OF PENNSYLVANIA 2 PENNSYLVANIA DEPARTMENT : NO. 284 M.D. 3 GENERAL SERVICES, : 1990 PENNSYLVANIA DEPARTMENT : 4 OF TRANSPORTATION, : PENNSYLVANIA PUBLIC : 5 UTILITY COMMISSION, : PENNSYLVANIA EMERGENCY : 6 MANAGEMENT AGENCY, and : PENNSYLVANIA DEPARTMENT : 7 OF STATE, : Plaintiffs, : 8 -vs- : UNITED STATES MINERAL : 9 PRODUCTS COMPANY, : CERTAINTEED CORPORATION,: 10 COURTAULDS AEROSPACE, : INC., CHEMREX, INC. : 11 PHILIPS ELECTRONICS : NORTH AMERICA : 12 CORPORATION, ADVANCE : TRANSFORMER COMPANY : 13 and MONSANTO COMPANY, : Defendants. : 14 BEFORE THE HONORABLE 15 CHARLES P. MIRARCHI, JR. 16 Wednesday, February 2, 2000 17 Trial testimony in the above-captioned matter, held at the 18 Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania, City Hall, Courtroom 453, Philadelphia, 19 Pennsylvania 19103, on Wednesday, February 2, 2000, beginning at 20 approximately 10:15 a.m., before Megan McKay, a Registered Professional Reporter 2 1 and Notary Public. 22 23 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 1880 J.F.K. Boulevard, 15th Floor 24 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060682 1 APPEARANCES: 2 HUMPHREY, FARRINGTON & MCCLAIN, P.C. 3 BY: KENNETH B. MCCLAIN, ESQUIRE 221 West Lexington, Suite 400 4 Independence, MI 64051 (816) 836-5050 5 Counsel for Plaintiffs 6 THOMAS W. HENDERSON, ESQUIRE 7 Suite 3975, One Oxford Circle 301 Grant Avenue 8 Pittsburgh PA 15219 (412) 261-6474 9 Counsel for Plaintiffs 10 WHITE & WILLIAMS 11 BY: THOMAS GOUTMAN, ESQUIRE One Liberty Place, 18th Floor 12 Philadelphia, PA 19102 (215) 864-7000 13 Counsel for Defendant Monsanto Corporation 14 15 MONTGOMERY, MCCRACKEN, WALKER & 16 RHOADS, LLP BY: JOYCE S. MEYERS, ESQUIRE 17 123 South Broad Street Philadelphia, PA 19109 18 (215) 772-7452 Counsel for Defendant Courtaulds 19 Aerospace, Inc. 20 21 DANAHER, TEDFORD, LAGNESE & NEAL BY: KEN NEAL, ESQUIRE 22 700 Capitol Place 21 Oak Street 23 Hartford, CT 06106 (860) 247-3666 24 Counsel for Defendant U.S. Mineral INDEX WITNESS 2 3 JOHNWOODYARD 4 5 BY MR. MCCLAIN 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 PAGE 101 HOYLE, MORRIS & KERR 1 BY: SUSAN HERSCHEL, ESQUIRE 2 1640 Market Street, Suite 4900 3 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 981-5700 Counsel for Defendant CertainTeed 4 Corporation 5 4 5 6 7 68 79 8 10 9 11 10 12 11 12 13 13 14 14 15 15 16 16 17 17 18 18 19 19 20 21 20 21 22 22 23 23 24 24 THE COURT CRIER: In the name of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania this Commonwealth Court is now declared open. The Honorable Charles Mirarchi, Junior, is presiding. Please be seated. Good morning, your Honor. THE COURT: Good morning. I believe we reserved this time for... MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, I want to make a clarification to the record. Yesterday Mr. Goutman represented to the Court that he never received any of the bulk samples of fireproofing from Mr. Roux, Mr. Neal's partner. So I contacted Mr. Roux last night because my recollection was that Mr. Roux had sent bulk samples of materials to Mr. Goutman. Mr. Roux confirmed to me from memory that he had done that. In fact, identified those samples as being ; ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060683 68 1 the samples of fireproofing that 1 other buildings. 2 were attached to the report 2 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor - 3 attached to Mr. Kominsky's 3 MR. GOUTMAN: I don't think 4 report. Mr. Neal hasn't had a 4 I'm done. You want to interrupt. 5 chance to confirm that yet with 5 MR. MCCLAIN: No, I don't. 6 documents, and I have asked him to 6 I really don't. I had 7 do that. But that was Mr. Roux's 7 misrecollected that. I had not 8 oral representation to me 8 heard that distinction that Mr. 9 yesterday on the telephone. 9 Goutman made in the record that 10 So Mr. Goutman's 10 they were T&S Building samples. 11 recollection on this subject, I 11 and I don't know whether the Court 12 think, is in error. He has had 12 did or not either. My impression 13 other bulk samples of materials 13 was the argument that was being 14 sent to him, and that emphasizes 14 made that Mr. Goutman was saying 15 the need for a chain of custody 15 that he didn't have any other bulk 16 from Mr. Goutman's office to the 16 samples of fireproofing. Be that 17 laboratory for these samples, in 17 as it may, the point is still the 18 my view. 18 same. The issue on chain of 19 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, I 19 custody applies equally either 20 think counsel's recollection of 20 way, but I want to tell Mr. 21 what I said to this Court is in 21 Goutman that I apologize because I 22 error, and I know it's in error, 22 had misrecollected what you had 23 because I have the transcript, and 23 said in regard to the samples. 24 here's what I told the Court: "We 24 But if you had other bulk samples 79 1 never received" - I will start 1 in your possession, that may be 2 from the beginning at Page 2 the source of confusion for these 3 113. "I'd like to correct the 3 samples. 4 record. Plaintiffs counsel said 4 MR. GOUTMAN: Are you done? 5 to this Court that plaintiffs 5 MR. MCCLAIN: Yes, sir. 6 counsel gave us other asbestos 6 MR. GOUTMAN: The samples 7 samples," which you will recall 7 that were sent from other 8 the Court and plaintiffs counsel 8 buildings, and I think there are, 9 did, and, of course, at least 9 I think, maybe three other 10 according to my representation 10 samples. My recollection is were 11 they never did, but in any event, 11 sent. Again my recollection was 12 I continue,"Plaintiffs counsel 12 that is some time in the fall of 13 never gave us any other asbestos 13 1998. And, again, your Honor, the 14 samples." Then I say further,"We 14 record is still clear what j 15 never received any other T&S 15 occurred here with respect to the 16 Building samples from Mr. Roux and 16 prefire samples. I received a box 17 Mr. Roux's partner could probably 17 from Mr. Ziegler and I turned that j 18 verify that." 18 around and sent it to the lab. 19 Now, Mr. McClain this 19 This is plaintiffs 20 morning has said that I told the 20 counsel's attempt for a third bite 21 Court that I had never received 21 of this apple. The apple is 22 any asbestos samples from Mr. 22 getting rather old and moldy at 23 Roux, and that's just not true. 23 this point and I think we should 24 He sent me asbestos samples from 24 move on. The jury is going to be ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60684 tssssaa hagBs*3ygmi 10 12 1 here shortly. Thank you, your 1 MR. GOUTMAN: Yes. I see 2 Honor. 2 you are look at the same thing I 3 MR. NEAL: Your Honor, I 3 am. 4 would like to say for the record. 4 THE COURT: The reason I 5 as your Honor knows, I got into 5 mention that is I'm looking for 6 this case late, so I have no 6 Page 8 and don't have it. 7 knowledge of what is being 7 MR. GOUTMAN: One problem 8 discussed. I'm a little 8 is, your Honor, that plaintiff's 9 concerned, because Mr. Roux is my 9 counsel is using a version of the 10 former partner and he is not 10 second edition, which, I believe, 11 handling this case and that he was 11 was withdrawn. Can you tell me-- 12 contacted. But in any event, Mr. 12 THE COURT: No, no. The 13 McClain asked if I had any 13 reason I didn't find it is because 14 correspondence to that effect. As 14 Page 13 preceded Page 8, and in 15 I say, I am not aware of it, and 15 the maimer of which I was 16 if it's the Court's pleasure I 16 examining the document I thought 17 will look for correspondence. But 17 they would be sequentially 18 other than that, I don't know what 18 numbered. 19 I can do. I have no knowledge of 19 MR. GOUTMAN: It may well be 20 this. 20 that my pages, as can you see, 21 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 21 your Honor, if plaintiffs counsel 22 with respect to the other 22 can hold up his second edition, 23 exhibits, I don't know if 23 my second edition is different. 24 plaintiff's counsel has copies for 24 And as I advised plaintiffs l # ii 1 the Court. Do you? 1 2 MR. MCCLAIN: I have some. 2 3 On what? On the management 3 4 handbook? 4 5 MR. GOUTMAN: Start there. 5 6 MR. MCCLAIN: I think that I 6 7 have the relevant pages, your 7 8 Honor. There is only two sources 8 9 for these blow-ups. What we 9 10 marked as PCB Management Handbook, 10 11 this is, your Honor, these are 11 12 just pages from this book that I'm 12 13 holding up for the Court right 13 14 now. 14 15 THE COURT: Is that this? 15 16 MR. MCCLAIN: That's pages 16 17 from this book. 17 18 THE COURT: Uh-huh. 18 19 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, I 19 20 direct the Court's attention to 20 21 Page 8 and what Exhibit 4008 E is. 21 22 THE COURT: You are talking 22 23 about Page 8 from this same 23 24 document. 24 13 counsel, the reason might well be because one of the second editions was withdrawn at the author's request because the publisher had made changes against the author without the author's knowledge. But in any event, we're going to have a problem perhaps locating the pages. THE COURT: I have Page 8 now. MR. GOUTMAN: Okay. MR. MCCLAIN: What is the quote you are looking for? Because I don't think anything I have on eight is quoted. MR. GOUTMAN: The reproductive tests on primates. MR. MCCLAIN: That's not on Page 8. MR. GOUTMAN: It's on my Page 8. That's the problem. MR. MCCLAIN: Jim, can you come here and help me with this? ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60685 14 16 1 MR. GOUTMAN: In this 1 and low birth rates for surviving 2 edition of the second edition it 2 test subjects." He is talking 3 is in the introduction, your 3 about animal tests here. 4 Honor. Just so that we can move 4 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 5 this along, the quote that he has 5 the witness testified repeatedly 6 blown up is reproductive tests on 6 about this building being safe, 7 primates that involved PCB 7 about the levels being safe. The 8 contamination have resulted in 8 issue is what is the meaning of 9 total reproductive failure. 9 safe? Here the witness talks 10 increased mortality, still birth 10 about tests demonstrating that 11 and low birth rates for surviving 11 animals that are exposed to PCBs 12 test subjects. 12 have resulted in total 13 MR. MCCLAIN: That is on 13 reproductive failure, increased 14 Page 8. I'm sorry. 14 mortality, still birth and low 15 MR. GOUTMAN: On my Page 8 15 birth rates. I would suggest that ? 16 it's the middle paragraph, last 16 a substance that does that is not 17 line of the middle paragraph; is 17 safe. The witness has repeatedly 18 that correct? 18 said this building was safe. The 19 MR. MCCLAIN: Yes. 19 concerns that we had for these 20 MR. GOUTMAN: Okay. Now, 20 very issues, and the witness has 21 your Honor, just to start from 21 written about them. This is his 22 beginning, and we've been over 22 own book, for heaven's sake, and 23 this terrain before, documents 23 for the world called PCB 24 like this are hearsay and the law 24 management handbook. And I don't 15 17 1 of Pennsylvania is that they 1 think that he can run from what he 2 cannot be used except for 2 has written. 3 impeachment purposes of an expert 3 MR. GOUTMAN: Well, your 4 once he acknowledges them as 4 Honor, respectfully, obviously he 5 authoritative. Assuming this book 5 hasn't quoted from those portions 6 is acknowledged by its author as 6 of the book where he says, "PCBs 7 authoritative, the question is 7 may be less dangerous than other 8 what is it that he is impeaching 8 hazardous chemicals. Studies have 9 this witness? This witness has 9 found that workers without 10 not been offered to testify on 10 sophisticated protection can 11 toxicology. He has offered no 11 handle PCBs for their entire 12 testimony on direct on animal 12 career without greater risk." 13 tests. Mr. McClain in his voir 13 There are various 14 dire on credentials established 14 observations in this introduction 15 that this witness is not a 15 concerning the subject of 16 toxicologist, and, therefore, I 16 toxicology, but Mr. Woodyard has 17 don't understand how this gets 17 not been qualified as an expert on 18 into the expert impeachment 18 toxicology, he hasn't been 19 exception to the hearsay rule. 19 qualified as an expert in 20 Again, it says,"Reproductive 20 epidemiology or the health effects 21 tests on primates that involved 21 of PCBs. And in any event, none 22 PCB contamination have resulted in 22 of his direct testimony dealt with 23 total reproductive failure. 23 that, and I don't know what the 24 increased mortality, still birth 24 impeachment value is. What Mr. I ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOO6O686 18 20 1 Woodyard said is there are various 1 MR. MCCLAIN: Thank you, 2 standards that set safety levels, 2 your Honor. 3 and the levels in the building 3 THE COURT: Although, we do 4 were beneath those standards. 4 have sentences that immediately 5 That's what he said. He didn't 5 follow that espouse on the same 6 discuss animal studies. He didn't 6 issue. 7 discuss the circumstances of these 7 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 8 animal studies, the fact that they 8 the next area -- 9 were high dose, doses that aren't 9 MR. MCCLAIN: I don't 10 even applicable to the T&S 10 object, your Honor, if he wants to 11 Building and so forth. 11 read that entire next paragraph. 12 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 12 That's fine with me. I mean, 13 this is cross examination. 13 those certainly aren't things you 14 Anything which tests his 14 can rule on at the time. But, I 15 credibility and his opinion that 15 mean, it demonstrates ~ 16 this was safe, particularly where 16 THE COURT: I merely call it 17 he has written about it, is open 17 to your attention. 18 for cross. 18 MR. MCCLAIN: I understand. 19 MR. GOUTMAN: I guess my 19 Thank you. 20 question is what is the relevance 20 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 21 of an observation of reproductive 21 the next area deals with just -- 22 tests on primates that involved 22 there is another publication. 23 PCB contamination and so forth, 23 The other major publication that 24 what is the relevance of that to 24 he is taking from -- I shouldn't I t i 4 19 21 1 this witness's testimony that he 1 call it a major publication, but 2 is aware of PCB safe standards and 2 it's called deriving remediation 3 the levels in the building were 3 criteria for PCBs and PCB 4 beneath them? Nothing that he 4 combustion -- that's not it. 5 said -- he didn't say anything 5 MR. MCCLAIN: The concrete 6 about animal tests. He hasn't 6 article. 7 been qualified as an expert on 7 MR. GOUTMAN: Yeah. 8 toxicology. So, again, there is 8 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 9 no foundation, there is no 9 there is some other quotes that 10 relevancy. 10 are taken from an article he wrote 11 MR. MCCLAIN: It goes to his 11 called State of the Art Technology 12 credibility of telling the jury 12 PCB Decontamination of Concrete. 13 that this was safe, and it's for 13 Can I just hand this up? 14 the jury to decide whether this 14 THE COURT: Yes. Thank you. 15 impacts on his opinion of safety. 15 MR. MCCLAIN: You're 16 You know, the real debate here is 16 welcome. 17 should we have chosen the lower 17 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 18 NIOSH standard as opposed to this 18 again, I think starting from the 19 quote-unquote EPA safe standard, 19 beginning, what is it that's being J 20 Judge, which we're going to find 20 impeached here and what is the 21 out about in a minute. 21 relevance of it to this case? 22 THE COURT: The objection of 22 There was no testimony on direct * 23 Monsanto is overruled and you may 23 about concrete decontamination. 24 question on this. 24 There is no evidence presented by ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60687 4 22 24 1 it's plaintiffs concerning any 1 said in Court and what was i 2 problems with the concrete in the 2 testified to. So I excerpted both 3 T&S Building. This article and 3 Mr. Bond's testimony and Mr. 4 these questions that might be 4 Halliwell as well as the 5 derived from here are, frankly, 5 specifications about what was done 6 out of left field. As an example, 6 to the concrete. Sol will hand ! 7 your Honor, Page 122 he has blown 7 those to the Court. 8 up the first paragraph under 8 First of all, the article 9 Surface Concrete Removal. 9 doesn't only deal with concrete. 10 MR. MCCLAIN: Which one? 10 It deals with many things about 11 MR. GOUTMAN: Page 122, the 11 the difficulty of remediating PCBs 12 paragraph under Surface Concrete 12 from buildings and it talks about 13 Removal, which is 4006 F. "The 13 the remediation techniques for 14 type of PCB contamination of 14 concrete being helpful for 15 concrete that is most frequently 15 remediating other building 16 encountered and most difficult to 16 systems, and so it's a 17 treat is just below the surface 17 steppingstone. The witness uses 18 resulting from short-term spill 18 the technology used to 19 contact or grinding of dust 19 decontaminate PCB containing 20 deposits through tracking." There 20 concrete to demonstrate how 21 is no foundation here that this 21 difficult it is and how elusive 22 occurred at the T&S Building. 22 trying to find contamination in a 23 There is no foundation here that 23 building is and how difficult it 24 any concrete removal was required 24 is to clean up. And then he uses 23 25 1 in the T&S Building. Plaintiffs 1 the examples of how concrete 2 counsel attempted to elicit some 2 absorbs PCBs, et cetera. 3 testimony from Mr. Halliwell 3 Now we had that problem at 4 concerning that and we objected 4 the T&S Building, as you will see 5 because Mr. Halliwell, or the 5 from Haliwell's testimony where he 6 plaintiffs, couldn't identify the 6 showed the jury slides about the 7 manufacturer of the mastic. 7 shot blasting of the concrete to 8 It goes on,"PCBs have shown 8 take off the PCBs. That's at Page 9 they are to penetrate concrete to 9 93. It would need to be cleaned 10 much greater depths than common 10 further, shot blasted further in 11 sense would dictate," and so 11 terms of cleaning up the building 12 forth. There is no evidence that 12 for reoccupancy to one at Page 13 this occurred at the T&S 13 93. And then Mr. Bond, we asked 14 Building. It's irrelevant and 14 him in his testimony at 164,1 15 there's nothing that this witness 15 asked him,"What is shot blasting? 16 has said which this can be used to 16 Shot blasting is a machine that 17 impeach him on. So I assume, I 17 heralds tiny beebees within a 18 guess, counsel is just going to 18 controlled space. The mastic is 19 read it to him and say did you 19 removed. The specifications 20 write that? 20 require a quarter inch removal of 21 MR. MCCLAIN: Well, your 21 the concrete. Answer: Of the 22 Honor, I thought this would come 22 concrete." That's Mr. Bond's 23 up so I thought the Court should 23 testimony in this case. 24 have reference to what was really 24 So we have testimony in this ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOO6O688 26 28 1 case about removal of concrete 1 well go through it. But my 2 being necessary to decontaminate 2 question is where in his case did 3 the building. The witness has 3 he present evidence that there was 4 testified that we went to extreme 4 any PCB entering the concrete? He 5 lengths far more than was 5 had evidence and entered evidence 6 necessary in regard to this 6 that mastic, which is glue, on top 7 building, and yet his paper 7 of concrete was removed. In fact, 8 indicates how difficult it is to 8 on July 28,1999, your Honor, Mr. 9 decontaminate concrete. 9 Halliwell attempted to show 10 And so having put in issue 10 pictures of shot blasting of that 11 our methods of decontaminating 11 mastic. I objected, or Mr. 12 this building, that particular 12 Schmidt objecting saying that the 13 paragraph is relevant to that 13 manufacturer of that mastic had 14 issue where he has written about 14 not been identified and that 15 how difficult it is where PCBs are 15 objection was sustained. 16 detected on or in concrete. And 16 So there is no evidence in 17 so that's the relevance of that. 17 this case of penetration of PCBs 18 If the Court would like to see the 18 in the concrete. And what we have 19 specification that Mr. Bond 19 is a series of quotes about what 20 referred to I have a copy here. 20 to do when PCBs penetrate 21 but I don't think that's 21 concrete. There is no foundation 22 necessary. 22 for that. It certainly is not 23 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, I 23 impeachment of anything this 24 guess my objection was, and 24 witness said. I ' 't 27 29 1 plaintiffs counsel hasn't 1 MR. MCCLAIN: We shot 2 answered it, what evidence was 2 blasted the concrete, he talks 3 presented during his case, 3 about shot blasting the concrete 4 certainly none was presented 4 necessary to decontaminate the 5 during our case, that there was 5 building, the mastic on the 6 any PCB penetration of concrete? 6 flooring contained PCBs. He talks 7 MR. MCCLAIN: There was the 7 about the capillary action of 8 tests done of the mastic, which 8 concrete absorbing PCBs. As the 9 was on the concrete, which the 9 Court heard Mr. Goutman read, how i 10 witness talks about. The 10 it sometimes is unexplainable how 11 necessity to remove concrete, to 11 it occurs. 12 remove all contamination even when 12 MR. GOUTMAN: Well, your 13 there aren't tests. The 13 Honor, if he can lay a foundation 14 witness's article talks about the 15 necessity of doing that because 16 concrete absorbs PCBs. So if you 14 through this witness that there 15 was penetration of PCBs into the 16 concrete and then what would it be \ j 17 are going to decontaminate a 17 required, or had been required to 18 building you have got to shot 18 remove it, that's fine. But he 19 blast the concrete. That's what 19 can't go waving around quotes 20 his article says. 20 concerning a hypothetical 21 MR. GOUTMAN: Well, your 21 situation about which there has 22 Honor, rather than trust 22 been no foundational ' 23 plaintiff's counsel's 23 establishment. 24 characterization of the article 24 THE COURT: Refresh the ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 4 TOWOLDMONOQ60689 4 30 32 1 Court's memory on this. The Court 1 THE COURT: We are talking 2 recalls that we did have some 2 about the outside concrete. 3 concrete penetration allegedly 3 MR. MCCLAIN: Floor. 4 when the outside caulk was done. 4 THE COURT: You are talking 5 Other than that, the Court doesn't 5 about the floor. 6 recall any penetration. 6 MR. MCCLAIN: Floor. Shot 7 MR. GOUTMAN: Actually -- 7 blasting the concrete. Then Mr. 8 MS. MEYERS: Your Honor, can 8 Bond testified, in fact, they had 9 I address that? 9 did that. They had shot blasted 10 THE COURT: I just--we're 10 the concrete. Mr. Halliwell 11 not putting it in such a fiat. I 11 suggested that it would had to 12 remember there was some concern 12 have been shot blasted further to 13 about the caulk penetrating or the 13 get it down to one -- from ten to 14 PCBs from the caulk allegedly 14 one. 15 penetrating the concrete -- 15 MR. GOUTMAN: Where is that? 16 outside concrete. 16 MR. MCCLAIN: That's in this 17 MS. MEYERS: Mr. Ewing's 17 quote. 18 testimony was that the data didn't 18 MR. GOUTMAN: Where? i 19 show that. Plaintiffs allege it, 19 MR. MCCLAIN: Where he is 20 but the data didn't show it and 20 talking about -- let's take a look 21 that was Mr. Ewing's testimony. 21 at everything that is gone. If 22 MR. GOUTMAN: In fact, your 22 you look at these -- 23 Honor, Mr. Halliwell attempted to 23 THE COURT: Where are you 24 express an opinion on that. There 24 reading? 31 33 1 is an objection by Ms. Meyers, it 1 MR. MCCLAIN: Page 93 in 2 was sustained and his testimony 2 the middle of the page, your 3 was stricken. I have that cited 3 Honor, at line nine. "Where 4 somewhere here. 4 they're left for PCBs and asbestos 5 THE COURT: That was only a 5 containing materials to remain 6 preamble to my next question. 6 when, in fact, it would be in my 7 That was one place where the Court 7 opinion in the concrete deck. It 8 recalls concrete. 8 would need to be cleaned further, 9 MR. MCCLAIN: Coming in. 9 shot blasted further." 10 THE COURT: Being mentioned. 10 MR. GOUTMAN: The problem 11 MR. MCCLAIN: Yes. I think 11 with that -- 12 that the Court is correct. 12 MR. MCCLAIN: I'm sorry, you 13 THE COURT: Was there any 13 know. You asked me to show you -- 14 other place where concrete was 14 but I don't want to argue with 15 mentioned? 15 you, Tom. "It would also be in the 16 MR. MCCLAIN: Yes. Where I 16 metal deck, which is a rough 17 have given you those two cites. 17 surface had has a lot of openings 18 Mr. Halliwell was asked what his 18 in it. It's difficult to clean." 19 opinion would be to further 19 He did offer the opinions that the 20 decontaminate the building down to 20 concrete deck was, in fact, 21 one. Remember the Court allowed 21 contaminated and needed to be shot 22 that testimony? He talks about 22 blasted and the Court allowed that 23 further shot blasting being 23 opinion. 24 necessary. 24 So we do have opinion ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060690 34 36 1 testimony about the contamination 1 association with PCBs. 2 of the concrete deck and the need 2 Now, Ms. Meyers had a whole 3 to shot blast it. This witness is 3 argument about that. The Court 4 an expert in that area, has 4 overruled it in regard to the 5 written articles about it and I'd 5 motion for nonsuit and it's in the 6 like to elicit his opinion about 6 jury's hands about whether that 7 the necessity of shot blasting 7 was necessary to decontaminate the 8 concrete. 8 building. But we have the whole 9 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 9 issue of concrete, as it says 10 there is no testimony and there's 10 here, PCB has been shown, however, 11 none here that there is any 11 to penetrate concrete to much 12 penetration of PCBs in the 12 greater depths than common sense 13 concrete. None. Mr. Halliwell 13 would indicate. That's in this 14 didn't present any. There is 14 paragraph that I have blown up 15 simply no data, no data presented 15 through capillary action or other 16 as part of plaintiff's case, 16 physical mechanisms. I want to 17 because none exists that there was 17 ask the witness what does that 18 PCB penetration of any concrete. 18 mean? What are capillary actions? 19 So plaintiff's counsel would like 19 What are the physical mechanisms 20 to ask, I guess, show this witness 20 by which concrete when it's in 21 a bunch of quotes about how you 21 association with PCBs becomes 22 remove PCBs once they have 22 contaminated? What are the 23 penetrated. Now, if he can lay a 23 concerns there, Mr. Witness? 24 foundation through this witness 24 That's in the middle of that 35 37 1 that there was PCB penetration at 1 paragraph, Judge, under the 2 the T&S Building, fine. But the 2 heading Surface Concrete Removal. 3 factual foundation isn't there. 3 And so he studied this 4 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 4 subject about why concrete absorbs 5 this witness was allowed to 5 PCBs and I think I have a right to 6 testify without any data on 6 ask him about it. It's at issue 7 anything. He got up here and 7 in this case. 8 talked about vaporization without 8 MR. GOUTMAN: Well, he 9 any data, without any tests. 9 doesn't have a right to ask him 10 None. Zero. The Court allowed 10 about something that is not an 11 him to testify. Now, we have 11 issue in this case. There is no 12 testimony from two witnesses 12 foundation that there was any bulk 13 regarding the necessity to shot 13 testing of concrete in this 14 blast the concrete to clean off 14 building, which showed PCB 15 the mastic and Mr. Halliwell 15 penetration. If There was I'd 16 offers the opinion that the 16 like to see it. There is no such 17 concrete was contaminated, the 17 data. 18 Court allowed that opinion. In 18 Now, Mr. McClain is saying, 19 addition, the Court is correct. 19 well, Mr. Woodyard didn't have any 20 We then had additional testimony, 20 tests. Mr. Woodyard talked about 21 which this is relevant to, that 21 the 20,000 some tests that he 22 is, the saw cutting of the 22 reviewed. I think that's a little 23 concrete panels because of 23 more persuasive than the so-called 24 concerns about contamination from 24 test that Mr. Ewing did. * Lj j J ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60691 f 38 40 1 But in any event, your 1 training in regard to how concrete 2 Honor, there is no factual premise 2 reacts when it is in association 3 or foundation. There are -- and I 3 with PCBs. That was the basis 4 think there are a dozen quotes 4 upon Mr. Haliwell's opinion in 5 from this article concerning 5 this regard and why it needed to 6 cleaning up PCBs once they have 6 be shot blasted. So those become 7 penetrated concrete. There was no 7 facts for the purpose of this 8 testimony that that was even a 8 issue. There is not a need to 9 problem at the T&S Building. 9 have a specific test on the 10 There is no testimony that there 10 concrete. 11 was even bulk sampling of concrete 11 MR. GOUTMAN: Well - 12 at the T&S Building. So again, 12 THE COURT: You mentioned 13 your Honor, it has nothing to do 13 there was none. 14 with this case. 14 MR. MCCLAIN: I understand. 15 THE COURT: The Court has no 15 I was just laying out for the 16 recollection of tests performed on 16 Court my recitation of where we 17 the concrete evidencing PCB 17 are in the evidence. 18 penetration; is that correct? 18 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, I 19 MR. MCCLAIN: There is tests 19 think the Court's question goes to 20 on the mastic, your Honor; not the 20 the heart of this matter. 21 concrete. The mastic on the 21 Plaintiffs counsel hasn't given 22 concrete was tested. 22 us any citation to Haliwell's 23 THE COURT: The mastic? 23 testimony where he said there was 24 MR. MCCLAIN: Yes. 24 penetration. He wants to do 39 41 1 THE COURT: But we're 1 further shot blasting. 2 talking about penetration in the 2 Plaintiffs counsel didn't explore 3 concrete, as I understand it. 3 to him why he wants to do further 4 MR. MCCLAIN: Right. We 4 shot blasting, or, in fact. 5 have Mr. Haliwell's opinion. As 5 whether further shot blasting was 6 the Court laid out to the jury. 6 done. 7 experts are allowed to testify by 7 But in any event, Mr. 8 opinion and the jury can consider 8 Halliwell at no time opined that 9 their opinions as facts. That's 9 there was penetration of PCBs into 10 what the Court told the jury in 10 concrete. He attempted to do so 11 regard to Mr. Woodyard and that 11 once and that was with respect to 12 was a correct statement of law. 12 the exterior caulk and Ms. Meyers 13 And so the opinion that Mr. 13 rose and objected. This Court 14 Halliwell has rendered here that 14 sustained the objection. She 15 the concrete was contaminated is a 15 orally moved to strike the 16 fact for the jury to consider 16 testimony and the Court struck the * "i 17 without the necessity, because the 17 testimony. That's all there is :1 18 Court allowed it, of specific 18 concerning penetration of PCBs in 19 tests on the concrete like Mr. 19 the concrete. Here we have a 20 Woodyard was allowed to offer 20 dozen or so exhibits, blowups of 21 opinions about the no vaporization 21 what you do once PCBs penetrate 22 from the ductboard, even though he 22 concrete. And, therefore, again, 23 didn't have any tests. It was 23 your Honor, it's not about this 24 based upon his experience and his 24 case. It might be about another ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60692 42 1 case, but it's not about this 1 2 case. 2 3 MS. MEYERS: Your Honor, may 3 4 I be heard on this as well? 4 5 THE COURT: Yes. Could you 5 6 come forward? 6 7 MS. MEYERS: Yes. IVe 7 8 looked at the quotes that Mr. 8 9 McClain would like to show Mr. 9 10 Woodyard about concrete, and all 10 11 of them, as I understand them. 11 12 refer to liquid spills on concrete 12 13 floors. That's not what we have 13 14 here, and it's one thing to talk 14 15 about liquid penetrating a floor 15 16 with the help of gravity, perhaps, 16 17 and it's quite another thing to 17 18 talk about what we really have in 18 19 the T&S Building where there was 19 20 not any liquid spill and there is 20 21 no evidence in the record 21 22 whatsoever that PCBs penetrated 22 23 any concrete surface inside or 23 24 outside. That's the first point. 24 44 there is no data. There is test data, and the test data does not support that conclusion. So it's confusing and it's prejudicial. One of those quotes talks about penetration up to 12 inches. There is no evidence in this case that anything like that even remotely happened at the T&S Building. So in addition to not being within the scope of Mr. Woodyard's direct testimony and not being relevant to any evidence that plaintiffs put in about the Transportation & Safety Building, it's an invitation to the jury to speculate that things that never happened might have happened or could have happened, and, therefore, they can take them into consideration when they didn't happen. That's allowing the jury to make a decision based on nothing but speculation and ft \ 1 t 1 fA ) u rft r] i i 1 ft | i i ft 43 45 ft 1 The second point is even if this 1 conjecture and that's improper. 2 had some remote probative value, 2 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 3 which it doesn't, it's outside the 3 Ms. Meyers clearly is at a 4 scope of this witness's direct 4 disadvantage, since she hasn't 5 testimony and it's unrelated to 6 any evidence in the record about 5 read these articles. If youH 6 look at the Page 118 of the State 7 the T&S Building, it's also unduly 7 of the Art for PCB Decontamination 8 prejudicial and confusing to the 9 jury, because the same confusion 8 of Concrete written by Mr. 9 Woodyard, defendant's expert. He | f 10 that came up in the last few 11 minutes about concrete floors 10 says that the mode of 11 contamination of concrete is at ft 12 versus concrete exterior wall 12 least in four ways. One, surface j 13 panels could arise in the jury's 13 soot. Imagine that. Surface 14 mind. Suggesting or getting this 15 witness -- eliciting testimony 16 from this witness about what 14 soot. Now, haven't we heard 15 enough about soot in this case to 16 know that's an issue in this Jj ft 17 happens when liquid PCBs penetrate 17 case? And we had bear concrete -j 18 concrete floors could allow Mr. 19 McClain to try to argue to the 18 floors throughout this building 19 and they alleged that surface soot l; 20 jury that somehow PCBs moved out 20 was found throughout this building \ 21 of the caulk into the concrete 22 panels on the outside of the 21 every square inch? We've heard 22 Mr. Goutman say that at least 15 ft 23 building in the same way, even 23 times to this jury. Penetrated 24 though his own expert admitted 24 fumes. We have heard repeatedly ; ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES ft TOWOLDMONOQ60693 46 48 \ 1 about fumes in this building. We 1 this case. Look at table one. 2 have a theory about the release of 2 It's at Page 123 and 124. In the 3 fumes from the overhead ductwork. 3 middle of that page,"Some commonly 4 Hie defendant contends that does 4 cited standards for PCB 5 not occur. We contend it does. 5 contamination," the witness 6 But more importantly, they contend 6 wrote. And what does he cite in 7 that such fumes occurred during 7 the middle of the page? The NIOSH 8 the fire. 8 standard. He doesn't say that it 9 Now, we have several modes 9 just applies to PCB fires. Judge, 10 of contamination of this concrete, 10 which he told the jury it did. He 11 which Mr. Woodyard opines about. 11 says that it's presumably for 12 But he talks about the nature of 12 interior surfaces and it's based 13 concrete and why it's such a good 13 not on a PCB fire dioxin furan \ 14 absorber of PCBs. And what he 14 cleanup standard, as he told the 15 says is,"Structural and ornamental 15 jury. He says based on upper 16 concrete has several attributes 16 background limits in 17 which combined to make this 17 nonmanufacturing facilities. 18 substance unique from a 18 So this article has wide I 19 contamination standpoint." That's 19 application and uses in cross 20 in the characteristics of concrete 20 examination and we did have 21 up above, your Honor. That's in 21 concrete shot blasting at issue in 22 this paragraph up above. "First, 22 this case. We did have the 23 all concrete is porous to some 23 opinions of an expert that, in 24 degree thereby allowing 24 fact, it was contaminated and 47 49 1 penetration by either liquid or 1 needed to be shot blasted. So we 2 vapor contaminants. Second, 2 believe that we ought to be able 3 concrete continuously ages and 3 to explore that with this witness. 4 dries over its life-span changing 4 MS. HERSCHEL: Your Honor, 5 its porosity and its ability to 5 Mr. McClain just did some public 6 absorb contaminants. Third, and 6 reading. It is irrelevant what 7 perhaps more importantly, concrete 7 Mr. Woodyard's -- at least for 8 is often an intrical structure 8 this case it's irrelevant what Mr. 9 component of the building so 9 Woodyard's opinions are about the 10 decontamination must be 10 process of PCBs concentrating in 11 performed. Demolition and 11 concrete and the difficulty or 12 disposal is not always an option." 12 lack of difficulty for cleaning it 13 So the essence of it is that 13 up, because, as your Honor has \ 14 when you have surface soot you 14 pointed out several times now. 15 have to be concerned about the 15 there is not a single piece of 16 concrete, and he talks about 16 data in the record that shows that i 17 that. And so to the extent that 17 there were PCBs in the concrete. M 18 there has been a suggestion that 18 The fact that plaintiffs 19 we did not have to be concerned 19 witnesses may have attempted to 20 about the concrete, that's 20 put evidence in and were blocked 21 incorrect. 21 successfully does not create a 22 And then we go over, Judge, 22 record. There's a not a piece of 23 to table one in this same document 23 data which shows that there were 24 to show its wide application to 24 PCBs in concrete inside the ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60694 > 4 50 52 1 building, and I think that's the 1 because he does comment about 2 beginning and end of it, your 2 standards or guidelines. The 3 Honor. 3 problem I have, your Honor -- is 4 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, I 4 do you have table one in front of 1 5 found it was on August 10th what I 5 you? It's on Page 123. 6 was talking about. Mr. Halliwell 6 THE COURT: 123 of what 7 was going on about the exterior 7 document? 8 caulk and he said,"In contractors 8 MR. GOUTMAN: I'm sorry. 9 actually coming in and not only 9 It's the paper titled State of the 10 removing the caulk, but he is 10 Art Technology Decontamination of 11 removing one and a half inches of 11 Concrete Penn 4006. 12 concrete either side of that seam 12 THE COURT: Okay. 13 where it was determined that the 13 MR. GOUTMAN: It's Page 14 caulk had, in fact, leached into 15 the concrete. Ms. Meyers" -- 14 123. Now, you will see that the 15 first entries on this table are I 16 where he says it had, in fact, 16 greater than 110,100 micrograms 17 leached into the 17 and so forth. Plaintiff's counsel 18 concrete. "Objection, your Honor. 18 reproduces the top title, but then 19 The Court: Sustained. Ms. 19 skips essentially what was 20 Meyers: Move to strike. The 20 ultimately to be the EPA standards 21 court: That will be stricken. 21 and goes right to the bottom. My 22 The jury is directed to disregard 22 objection to this is that it's 23 that. And that was on August 10, 23 inherently misleading. If he 24 1999 at Pages 69 to 70. 24 wants to blow up this document 51 53 1 Additionally, I forgot to 1 you'll see he is -- this document 2 bring up my notes, your Honor. 2 has the title of it, but it is 3 I'm sorry. 111 find the other 3 edited and he has edited out what 4 citation. The other two points I 4 are essentially the EPA 5 want to make, your Honor, are that 5 guidelines, although the EPA had 6 without the factual predicate that 6 not yet enacted this. This 7 there was PCB penetration in any 7 document was published before this 8 concrete surfaces of this 8 spill policy. So this exhibit, 9 building, and there is none and 9 which is 4006 A, is inherently 10 plaintiffs counsel hasn't shown us 10 misleading and I object to its 11 any, all the testimony in the 11 use. 12 world concerning methods for 12 MR. MCCLAIN: Let me address 13 getting it out of concrete is 13 that, if we can. Your Honor has 14 simply irrelevant in this case and 14 allowed us repeatedly to use 15 certainly there is nothing that 15 portions of a document and blow 16 this witness has said that would 16 them up so that you can read 17 suggest this is impeachment 18 material. 19 One more point about this 17 them. The problem with trying to 18 do that entire chart was that you 19 couldn't read the entire chart in j 20 concrete stuff. I have no problem 20 this size blow up. You'd have to 21 with plaintiffs using this article 21 blow it up as big as a house. 22 for one and only one purpose and 22 Now, there is no question that 23 that is to show table one. I have 23 there are other entries on that 24 no problem with that, your Honor, 24 exhibit, and we will make that ( i ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES i TOWOLDMONOQ60695 } 54 56 1 clear to the jury when we question 1 what he said was agency helped 2 the witness. But if the Court-- 2 base clean up criteria determined 3 in a typical situation if we put 3 by this assessment for One Market 4 it on the elmo the Court would 4 Plaza. 5 certainly allow me to focus on 5 THE COURT: That is the 6 this so that we can read it, and 6 address of that building. 7 that's all we've done. I have not 7 MR. MCCLAIN: Right. 8 presented -- 8 THE COURT: And this is the 9 THE COURT: If I understand 9 concrete test. 10 that it says .5 -- 10 MR. GOUTMAN: It has nothing 11 MR. MCCLAIN: Micrograms per 11 to do with concrete. 12 hundred cubic centimeters 12 THE COURT: It has nothing -- 13 squared. NIOSH 11/10/83, 13 MR. GOUTMAN: This has 14 presumably interior surfaces based 14 nothing to do with concrete. 15 on upper background limit and 15 MR. MCCLAIN: The article 16 nonmanufacturing facilities. I 16 deals with a lot of subjects; not 17 quoted it exactly. 17 just concrete. It talks about 18 THE COURT: Yes. That is as 18 using concrete decontamination 19 to the concrete. 19 techniques to test out ways to 20 MR. MCCLAIN: That's just to 20 clean up buildings, and one of the 21 some commonly cited standards of 21 tables they cite is that this -- 22 PCBs. 22 what standards have been set for 23 THE COURT: That's the 23 decontaminating buildings; not 24 inherent standard. 24 just concrete. 55 57 1 MR. MCCLAIN: Exactly what 1 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 2 we've been talking about. Then he 2 that's wrong. What he has 3 cites another one in regard to the 3 excerpted from this article are 4 One Market Plaza decontamination, 4 observations about decontamination 5 which he told us about in his 5 of concrete. It happens that in 6 direct and I'm -- and I blew that 6 this article there is a table that 7 up specifically because I have a 7 deals not with concrete, but 8 question about it, the One Market 8 general clean up standards and 9 Plaza situation. 9 that's table one. The point I 10 THE COURT: Which one is 10 wanted to make to this Court is I 11 that? 11 have no problem with him using 12 MR. MCCLAIN: That's the one 12 table one. I do have a problem 13 microgram - it's the next one 13 with him skillfully editing it so J 14 down on the chart. Judge, from I 14 that the jury thinks that this I 15 think- 15 witness said that some commonly 16 THE COURT: It said City and 16 cited standards for PCB 17 County of San Francisco. You 17 contamination and then he lists 18 might have been naming the 18 first NIOSH whereas, in fact, the 19 building. 19 entire table should be shown to 20 MR. MCCLAIN: General 20 the jury. 21 occupancy - yes. Department of 21 MR. MCCLAIN: I will be 22 Health City and County of San 22 happy to show -- let's see if we 23 Francisco. That's in this first 23 can resolve it so we don't have a 24 column, but in the last column 24 silly argument in front of the ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60696 58 60 1 Court. I will be happy to show 1 Deep Concrete Removal. 2 the entire table, but I'm using 2 MR. MCCLAIN: I wasn't going 3 this blow up so everyone can read 3 to use that blow up. 4 it. That's all. 4 THE COURT: You're 5 MR. GOUTMAN: Fine. In 5 withdrawing it. 6 another example, your Honor, of 6 MR. MCCLAIN: That blow up 7 the problematic use of this -- 7 I'm not going to use. 8 THE COURT: Youdontsee 8 THE COURT: Okay. 9 any problem with -- 9 MR. GOUTMAN: Another 10 MR. GOUTMAN: That table. 10 example, your Honor, Page -- I 11 THE COURT: That page. 11 have trouble reading these pages, 12 MR. GOUTMAN: As long as he 12 your Honor. 128,1 believe it is, 13 shows that page. 13 under coating technology. 14 MR. MCCLAIN: But I can use 14 THE COURT: Where are you 15 the blow up to read the parts that 15 reading? 16 I want to. 16 MR. GOUTMAN: 128, a few 17 MR. GOUTMAN: That's fine. 17 pages back from there. In the top 18 MR. MCCLAIN: Fine. No 18 of the page, it says,"In situ 19 problem. 19 treatment." Then it says "Coating 20 MR. GOUTMAN: As long as you 20 Technology." What they're talking 21 show the entire page first. 21 about and what he wants to read or 22 MR. MCCLAIN: I don't object 22 blow up or has blown up is the 23 to that. 23 second paragraph under Coating 24 MR. GOUTMAN: Okay. But 24 Technology. "In practice, because 59 61 1 again, your Honor, the table is 1 of any ongoing decontamination 2 one thing. The portions that he 2 projects involving industrial 3 wants to read or blow up and show 3 property, transfer or long-term 4 this jury are another problem 4 liability issues." In any event, 5 entirely. They're very 5 what he is talking about there is 6 prejudicial and they have nothing 6 the use of sealants on top of 7 to do with this case. 7 concrete. What does that have to 8 Another example, your Honor, 8 do with this case? 9 Page 126, where it says,"deep 9 MR. MCCLAIN: I will tell 10 concrete removal," like that has 10 you, if you'd like to know. 11 something to do with this case. 11 MR. GOUTMAN: Sure. I'd 12 You will see the first 12 like to hear it. 13 sentence,"Long-term open use of 13 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 14 PCB in certain industrial 14 this witness has the opinion, and 15 applications that resulted in 15 he has expressed it, that PCBs 16 isolated cases of deep PCB 16 stay put, stay put, as Mr. Goutman 17 penetration of concrete." Well, 17 has said. They don't move 18 the plaintiffs in their blow up 18 anywhere. They don't go 19 have omitted that sentence, lifted 19 anyplace. They have no vapor 20 it out and blown up the rest of 20 pressure. Why be worried about 21 that paragraph. 21 PCBs on surfaces? And yet he 22 MR. MCCLAIN: Where are you 22 writes that even after you 23 talking about, Mr. Goutman? 23 decontaminate concrete you got to 24 MR. GOUTMAN: Page 126 under 24 seal it. If they don't go 4 t f ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 4 TOWOLDMONOQ60697 > 62 64 1 anyplace, why do you have to put a 1 maybe before remediation, putting 2 sealer over PCBs on concrete? If 2 a sealant on top of the concrete, 3 there's no ability for these to 3 something that didn't even happen 4 move, if they truly do stay put, 4 in this building, where are we? 5 stay put, why do you have to put 5 What does this have to do with 6 an epoxy coating to keep them away 6 this case? There is nothing in 7 from people? That's the issue. 7 this paragraph about PCBs moving 8 Why is it, Mr. Witness, if, in 8 around. He is saying putting a 9 fact, they do not move and they do 9 sealant down to prevent future 10 not vaporize and they don't 10 spills or for wear resistance. 11 present any risk to building 11 There is nothing about PCBs moving 12 occupants, why do you then have to 12 around. 13 seal them after you decontaminate 13 MR. MCCLAIN: Look at what 14 concrete? That's the issue. 14 he says at 128, your Honor, in the 15 MR. GOUTMAN: Well, Mr. 15 middle of that paragraph,"like 16 McClain, maybe you should read the 16 capping a landfill. Coating PCB 17 article, because he says why in 17 contamination in concrete requires 18 the first paragraph,"Concrete 18 long-term maintenance and 19 sealants are often used as a means 19 long-term responsibility for the 20 of finishing industrial floors for 20 user." We talked about -- 21 spill proofing, that is protecting 21 Secretary Crowell testified at 22 against future spills, or wear 22 length how he was concerned that 23 resistance, wearing down the 23 if they left concrete -- left PCBs 24 concrete." 24 in the floor it would require them 63 65 1 MR. MCCLAIN: Then it 1 to be involved in long-term 2 says,"These coating techniques 2 maintenance and long-term 3 have some applicability to PCB 3 responsibility to keep that 4 contamination situations on the 4 material from coming out again. 5 principle that a sound coating 5 and the witness confirms that 6 material would at least 6 testimony from his own article. 7 temporarily inhibit human exposure 7 The issue is that if you leave it 8 in the workplace." 8 in place, even if you clean it up 9 MR. GOUTMAN: That's right. 9 to one, you've got long-term 10 MR. MCCLAIN: That's what he 10 maintenance and long-term 11 says. So the issue is why are 11 responsibility for the user at 12 coatings used and needed to 12 that level and he has written 13 inhibit people being exposed to 13 about it. It's relevant to this 14 them in the workplace if they 14 case. We've had testimony about 15 don't go anywhere? 15 the concerns the Commonwealth had 16 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 16 that they would have to maintain 17 this, I think, illustrates how far 17 this. That they would have to 18 afield we are. There is, number 18 continue to monitor it even if 19 one, no testimony that there is 19 they capped it, even if they 20 any concrete problem in this 20 cleaned it down to one. 21 building that there was any 21 And so we talked in 22 penetration of PCBs. Now we're 22 Secretary Crowell's testimony 23 talking about assuming there was 23 about filling the troughs with 24 penetration after remediation, or 24 lightweight concrete to cap them. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60698 66 68 1 But he was concerned that that 1 therefore, what you do about it. 2 would not be enough in terms of a 2 what problems might occur if there 3 long-term solution to this 3 is penetration of concrete 4 problem. So those issues have 4 shouldn't go before this jury. 5 been in this case and they 5 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, he 6 continue to roll around and this 6 testified at length about the 7 witness has written about them. 7 specification. We are looking for 8 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 8 Secretary Crowell's testimony. I 9 maybe counsel can show me where 9 had it out and I had it copied, 10 Mr. Crowell, who is not an expert 10 but we didn't bring it over. So 11 in anything, or at least not an 11 well show you where that is. 12 expert in any environmental field, 12 too. 13 testify about a concrete problem. 13 But in terms of the 14 He talked about the under 14 remediation of this building, he 15 flooring. But in any event, your 15 testified on direct that he 16 Honor, there is no expert 16 examined these specifications. 17 testimony that there was any PCB 17 that the specifications were 18 penetration of concrete. So now 18 written by people that didn't know 19 we're going to read to the jury 19 anything about this subject, that 20 all the problems that might occur 20 they were overblown, and at three 21 if there is PCB penetration of the 21 places they talk about cleaning 22 concrete and all the, quote, 22 the concrete in exactly the same 23 concerns. That's highly 23 terms he talks about in this 24 prejudicial. It has nothing to do 24 article at Page 13, your Honor, at .\ |\ m l \ 67 69 1 with this case. If they wanted to 1 Page 1. 2 present a PCB penetration of the 2 THE COURT: What are you 3 concrete case they could have 3 reading from? 4 presented it. The problem they 4 MR. MCCLAIN: I'm reading 5 have, your Honor, is that they 5 from the document in evidence the 6 have no data to support any 6 Penn 2584.1, the project manual 7 argument that there was PCB 7 for decontaminating the building. 8 penetration of the concrete. So 8 And with the Court's permission, I 9 now they want to devote at least a 9 will just hand you the document. 10 substantial -- from the number of 10 It's tabbed at those locations. i 11 exhibits here, there might be 11 MR. GOUTMAN: Where are you 12 eight or ten exhibits from this 12 directing him? 13 one article -- a substantial 13 MR. MCCLAIN: The three 14 amounts of cross examination 14 tabs. 15 devoted to what you do when PCBs 15 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, iJ 16 penetrate concrete. And that's 16 again, there is nothing there -- 17 highly prejudicial. It's not in 17 in answering the Court's original 18 this case. If, in fact, Mr. 18 question, there is nothing in 19 Woodyard's opinions are so unfirm 19 there that says that there is any 20 concerning what he has testified 20 PCB penetration of concrete. What 21 to, why are we talking about 22 penetration of concrete? There 21 they did was remove the mastic. 22 But there is nothing in that '4 23 has been no testimony about 24 penetration of concrete. And, 23 document that says that PCBs 24 penetrated the concrete. There is i ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 4 TOWOLDMONOQ60699 70 72 1 no test data that shows that. 1 building. The specifications that ! i 2 It's not there. 2 he has shown you deal with 3 THE COURT: Ami correct 3 specifications for demolition. i } 4 this is for the new building, the 5 Keystone Building? 4 There is no testimony that 5 anything had to be done to the 6 MR. MCCLAIN: That was 6 concrete for reoccupancy of the 7 decontamination before the 7 building. None. y 8 building was tom down, before the 8 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 9 T&S Building was tom down. 9 Mr. Goutman really ought to go and 10 MR. GOUTMAN: Those were 10 read Mr. Haliwell's testimony that 11 specifications, your Honor. There 11 I just gave him because that's 12 are no facts of record here that 12 what he was talking about. The 13 suggest that there was any PCB 13 Court allowed him to opine that at 14 penetration. Those are 14 that point in the testimony about 15 specifications should they find 15 what was necessary to clean down 16 PCB penetration. 16 to a level of one. And he talks 17 MR. MCCLAIN: No, your 17 about the necessity of further 18 Honor. We had testimony that they 18 shot blasting of the concrete. He 19 actually did it. They actually 19 talked about that it had been done 20 shot blasted the concrete. We had 20 but it needed to be done more 21 pictures of it. We had Mr. Bond's 21 because it was contaminated with 22 testimony regarding it. We had 22 PCBs in his opinion. That the 23 Mr. Haliwell's opinion that the 23 Court allowed. The Court allowed 24 concrete was contaminated, which 24 that testimony over objection and 71 73 1 is a fact before the jury. 1 it is part of this record. 2 MR. GOUTMAN: And the 2 MR. GOUTMAN: Well, I guess, 3 testimony was that shot blasting 3 your Honor, I don't know where in 4 occurred to remove the mastic from 4 the record it says plaintiffs have 5 the surface. That was the 5 established that, number one, 6 testimony. 6 we're talking about bulk sampling, 7 MR. MCCLAIN: That's not 7 and NIOSH does not have a bulk 8 what the specification calls for. 8 guideline. It's a wipe surface 9 It calls for shot blasting of the 9 guideline. So they have not 10 concrete to remove contamination 10 established that in order -- by 11 in the concrete. 11 any expert that in order to occupy 12 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 12 a building you would have to clean 13 the record before this Court is 13 down to one part per million, 14 that whatever shot blasting 14 which is the bulk standard. But 15 occurred had occurred to remove 15 in any event, your Honor, that's 16 the mastic. 16 neither here nor there. The point 17 MR. MCCLAIN: I can't 17 is, your Honor, they have cited : j 18 remember the number. It's on the 18 absolutely no evidence that there 19 first page, your Honor. 19 was PCB penetration of concrete. 20 THE COURT: Pen 2584.1. 20 The issue here is whether this 21 MR. GOUTMAN: I should also 21 jury is going to be entertained 22 add, your Honor, that plaintiffs 22 with an hour's worth of questions 23 are trying to tie this in to some 23 about what to do in cases of PCB 24 problem with reoccupying the 24 penetration of concrete. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060700 l 74 76 1 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, I 1 a Thursday, your Honor. I'm sure 2 found where Secretary Crowell was 2 that came to your mind 3 asked about this subject and where 3 immediately. A little levity 4 he expressed the exact concerns 4 never hurts. i 5 that are in the article about 5 I was asking about this 6 maintenance of concrete, if you'd 6 subject of entombing the Q-deck 7 like to read it, Mr. Goutman, 7 trenches because the idea was they 8 before I read it to the Court and 8 could never get those cleaned up. 9 before I hand it up to him. 9 You remember that. He said,"What 10 MR. GOUTMAN: What are you 10 about entombing these trenches 11 referring to? 11 with concrete with the PCBs in 12 MR. MCCLAIN: 158,159,160, 12 them? What was your feeling about 13 161. He talks about capping the 13 whether that was a good idea?" He 14 concrete, he talks about long-term 14 says,"I had -- for a long time I 15 concerns about maintaining PCBs in 15 had a problem with that because 16 place, even if they were entombed 16 people come into the building and 17 in a new layer of concrete. 17 did some maintenance work, what 18 MR. GOUTMAN: No. He is 18 have you. They weren't aware of 19 talking about filling the 19 that. People can drill through 20 electrical cells with lightweight 20 those trenches. The possibility 21 concrete. That's what he is 21 of releasing PCBs when people put 22 talking about here. 22 suspended ceilings -- now remember 23 MR. MCCLAIN: Right. 23 that the decking, because it's 24 MR. GOUTMAN: In any event, 24 decking and below when they put 75 77 1 I don't see how Secretary Crowell 1 hangers into the suspended 2 presents the expert foundation for 2 ceilings they shoot into that area 3 any kinds of questioning about 3 and hang suspended ceilings. So 4 whether there was PCB 4 there's a possibility that that 5 penetration. Now, again, if he 5 could be disturbed." Then he goes 6 can establish through this witness 6 on to talk about disturbing the 7 that there was PCB penetration of 7 PCBs. That's what Mr. Woodyard 8 concrete, fine. But he has no 8 talks about here in regard to 9 foundation for that line of 9 capping the concrete. He says 10 questioning at this point. 10 that -- this is on coating 11 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 11 technology at 128. "Furthermore, 12 now we're missing the point. The 12 like capping a landfill," this is 13 point on Secretary Crowell's 13 at Page 128, Judge. 14 testimony, let me read it to you, 14 THE COURT: Right. You are 15 if I could. Could I have the mike 15 reading what section? 16 so the Court can hear me, if I 16 MR. MCCLAIN: That paragraph 17 could? Thanks. Your Honor, what 17 under the heading Coating 18 Secretary Crowell testified about 18 Technology, the paragraph that 19 was that now - he was talking 19 begins "in practice". I'm reading 20 about the Q-deck. 20 the line that says,"Like capping a 21 THE COURT: What was that 21 landfill coating PCBs in concrete 22 date? 22 requires long-term maintenance and 23 MR. MCCLAIN: This was June 23 long-term responsibility for the 24 3rd of99. The record says it was 24 user." And that's what Secretary ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060701 1 78 80 I 1 Crowell was talking about. He was 1 name in vain, that there are ten 2 talking about that same problem 2 separate ways I can get this into 3 and why he was concerned that even 3 evidence, and I think that I've 4 filling in these trenches didn't 4 laid out for the Court ten 5 relieve him of the responsibility 5 separate ways. 6 in regard to PCBs. And the 6 MS. HERSCHEL: He needs 11, 7 witness recognizes that principle 7 your Honor. 8 in his article. It's all 8 MR. MCCLAIN: I will 9 interrelated and it relates to the 9 probably come up with it, because 10 subjects we've been dealing with 10 I've got boxes of stuff that I 11 and this witness has written about 11 prepared on this subject. 12 it and I think it would be 12 MS. HERSCHEL: Your Honor, 13 informative to let the jury know 13 Mr. McClain wants to cross examine 14 some of the things that he has 14 Mr. Woodyard about his views on 15 written. They confirm, in our 15 problems potentially created when 16 view, the plaintiffs position on 16 PCBs penetrate concrete. He can't 17 these things. That's what cross 17 do that in this case because there 18 examination is all about. So we 18 is no evidence that PCBs 19 would like to be able to use this 19 penetrated concrete and presented 20 article for a variety of purposes. 20 any kind of potential problem in 21 and we've shown you several that 21 that area for the Commonwealth 22 are relevant in this case. 22 agencies. The mention of concrete 23 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 23 by Mr. Crowell is collateral. He 24 plaintiffs counsel just 24 is talking about using concrete to 79 81 1 represented to the Court that 1 fill in trenches that he was 2 there was something in this 2 worried about. So that there is 3 transcript about Secretary 3 no basis for Mr. McClain to ask 4 Crowell's concerns about 4 Mr. Woodyard questions about his 5 penetration of PCBs in concrete. 5 views on problems created by PCBs 6 There is nothing there. I will 6 penetrated into concrete. 7 hand it up. 7 THE COURT: Is there 8 MR. MCCLAIN: He can read 8 anything further? 9 that whole section. 9 MR. GOUTMAN: Nothing on 10 MR. GOUTMAN: Not that 10 this document on the concrete 11 Secretary Crowell could lay the 11 issue. I can proceed to the other 12 necessary factual expert 12 exhibit if the Court wishes, or if 13 predicate. What he is talking 13 the Court wants to rule on 14 about is penetration of the 14 concrete. Whatever the Court 15 electrical cells and they were 15 wants. -^ 16 going to seal them with 16 THE COURT: The objection is 1 17 lightweight concrete. That's the 17 overruled. 18 only reference to concrete in the 18 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 19 pages plaintiffs counsel has 19 could we have a continuing 20 cited for the Court. 20 objection so that I don't have to m 21 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 21 keep on popping up and down? 22 I'm reminded, on the issue of 22 THE COURT: Yes. 23 levity again, I'm reminded of Mr. 23 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 24 Roux's comment, not to use his 24 going back to the PCB Management ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060702 i 82 84 1 Handbook. 1 were present in the T&S Building. 2 THE COURT: We're going back 2 MR. MCCLAIN: I will wait 3 to where? 3 until the Court has read the 4 4 MR. GOUTMAN: The PCB 4 paragraph. 5 Management Handbook. 5 THE COURT: I don't 6 MR. MCCLAIN: This one, your 6 understand the relevance of that 7 Honor. Your Honor, it might be 7 sentence. 8 easier for you to follow along if 8 MR. MCCLAIN: The sentence 9 you had my book. Would that be 9 that I want to read is it's 10 easier than those pages? Are they 10 impossible to identify all of 11 legible? 11 these materials as PCB 12 THE COURT: As long as we 12 contaminated -- no, that's not 13 deal with the pages that are 13 it. "It's important to recognize 14 contained in here I can follow 14 that the residual contamination 15 them. 15 from these sources can exist in 16 MR. MCCLAIN: Okay. Let me 16 industrial and commercial 17 make sure about that. What page. 17 settings. PCB spills or fires 18 Mr. Goutman? 18 that involve transformers, 19 MR. GOUTMAN: Well, that's 19 capacitors or other equipment in 20 just it. My book is different 20 these locations can inadvertently 21 than yours. 21 reveal contamination from these 22 MR. MCCLAIN: Tom, you want 22 residual sources and misrepresent 23 this? 23 the spill-related contamination. 24 MR. GOUTMAN: Yes. 24 The point that he makes is that 83 85 1 MR. MCCLAIN: I have got the 1 frequently following a fire 2 references to my pages on the 2 testing is done for PCBs and you 3 blowups. 3 find residual contaminations, 4 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 4 which are ascribed to the fire. 5 Page 27. 5 That's what we believe the 6 MR. NEAL: What exhibit 6 defendant is doing here now. 7 number is that? 7 They're ascribing preexisting 8 MR. MCCLAIN: This is 408, 8 contamination to the fire. The 9 Ken. You don't have a copy. 9 witness has written about this 10 MR. GOUTMAN: The quote that 10 subject matter and the subject 11 he wants to read is from the 11 matter is relevant here. He is 12 middle -- he has cut off the first 12 talking these other applications, 13 part of the middle paragraph and 13 PCBs and investment casting wax, 14 wants to read the second part, 14 dye, carriers for carbonless 15 which starts with, "It is important 15 papers and colored inks are just 16 to recognize that residual 16 other sources for PCBs in 17 contamination from these sources." 17 buildings which preexist fires. 18 My objection is, your Honor, not 19 only is it misleading to crop off 18 And so what I want to ask him 19 about is this subject matter that L 20 what the reference is, these 20 fires frequently disclose 21 sources, but if you read up here, 21 preexisting contamination, isn't 22 there is no expert foundation that 22 that true? Isn't that what that 23 any of, quote, these sources, 23 paragraph refers to? It's not 24 close quote, that contain PCBs 24 just restricted. If Mr. Goutman ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 4 TOWOLDMON0060703 . 86 88 i 1 wants to read all that and if the 2 witness wants to say that only 1 THE COURT: Aren't you more 2 referring to the second sentence 3 applies to investment casting wax 3 of that or the last sentence of I 4 in dye carriers for carbonless 4 that paragraph that deals with PCB 5 paper, that's a subject for 5 spills or fires that involve 6 redirect. But the subject matter 6 transformers, capacitors rather 7 is what we're dealing with here. 7 than the first sentence that you 8 We believe that the fire disclosed 8 read? 9 previous contamination that 9 MR. MCCLAIN: I'm not 10 existed from the ductwork during 10 following you, your Honor. 11 the heating season. Mr. Kominsky 11 THE COURT: Well, you 12 has put forward the additional 12 indicated that the paragraph that I 13 idea that PCBs off-gas during the 13 you want to read, or the portion 14 installation of those ducts when 14 you want to read, quote, in that 15 you tape them. It was preexisting 15 first full paragraph on Page 27, 16 in the building and the fire 16 it is important to recognize that 17 disclosed that to us is our view 17 the residual contamination from 18 of the evidence. And the witness 18 these sources can exist in 19 has written about that subject 19 industrial and commercial 20 here. That's its relevance in 20 settings. 21 this case. 21 MR. MCCLAIN: I have got the 22 MR. GOUTMAN: The problem is 22 whole quote. I go on PCB 23 he hasn't, your Honor. The 23 spills -- 24 plaintiff hasn't presented no 24 THE COURT: Wait a minute. 87 89 1 evidence that the T&S Building had 1 I'm sure you can read. Honest. 2 PCB containing investment casting 2 MR. MCCLAIN: I have blown 3 wax, dye carriers for carbonless 3 up the whole quote and what I'm 4 copy paper, colored inks and so 4 saying. 5 forth. There's no evidence of 5 THE COURT: And I'm picking 6 that. 6 it apart. 7 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor- 7 MR. MCCLAIN: Okay. 8 MR. GOUTMAN: There's no 8 THE COURT: Can I go back 9 evidence that anything they are 9 and pick? Okay. 10 ascribing to what this paragraph 10 MR. MCCLAIN: It's your 11 means is mentioned in this 11 court. 12 paragraph. 12 THE COURT: Thank you. The 13 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 13 first part that you wanted to read J 14 this is cross examination. The 14 is,"It is important to recognize 15 subject matter is the same subject 15 that residual contamination from 16 matter that we're dealing with, 16 these sources, these sources can 17 and I'm allowed latitude to be 17 exist in industrial and commercial 18 able to ask the witness. If he 18 settings." Is that correct. 19 disagree that it applies here, 19 MR. MCCLAIN: Yes. 20 then he can say that. That's 20 THE COURT: Now "these 21 all. If the witness doesn't agree 21 sources" refer to the paragraph 22 that that's the situation that 22 above it, the sentences above it 23 we're dealing with, he can say 23 when we're talking about 24 that. 24 carbonless paper, colored inks, ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060704 90 92 1 casting wax and dye carriers, et 1 the second of those two sentences. 2 cetera, et cetera, et cetera. We 2 MR. MCCIAIN: Okay. 3 don't have that here. The 3 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 4 sentence that I thought that you 4 Page 3, introduction. 5 might -- that you were more 5 THE COURT: Of the same 6 interested in was,"PCB spills or 6 document? 7 fires that involve transformers 7 MR. GOUTMAN: Yes. Counsel 8 and capacitors," which is what we 8 has blown up that part of the 9 do have here. 9 first paragraph that starts 10 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 10 with,"Partly because PCBs comprise 11 that same sentence refers to 11 the only chemical class explicitly 12 "these residual sources." So 12 controlled by an act of congress. 13 it's the same problem, your 13 These chemicals are a popular 14 Honor. The second to the last 14 focus for public and the news 15 line there,"these residual 15 media." I don't know what the 16 sources." 16 relevance of that is. 17 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor- 17 MR. MCCLAIN: It goes on to 18 MR. GOUTMAN: It's the same 18 say,"This special treatment has 19 problem. 19 helped create a regulatory and 20 MR. MCCLAIN: I think the 20 business subculture that targets 21 witness would agree, and I can lay 21 PCBs as a major environmental 22 a foundation before we show it, 22 hazard." And that's his 23 that other applications aren't 23 business. He is part of this 24 restricted. These are just 24 business subculture that targets l 1 ? I 91 93 1 examples. PCB investment casting 1 PCBs as a major environmental 2 wax, dye carriers for carbonless 2 hazard and it goes to his entire 3 papers. He'd agree that other 3 credibility, because what this guy 4 applications would include 4 does is goes around, in my view, 5 building products. I think that 5 and tells business clients they've 6 the witness would agree with that 6 got a real problem on their hands 7 if I asked him on the stand and I 7 and they need to hire him to clean 8 will do that as a foundation and 8 it up. He is part of this 9 that will clarify that. 9 business and regulatory subculture 10 THE COURT: If we have the 10 that targets PCBs as a major 11 foundation as -- I still do not 11 environmental hazard, and yet he 12 believe that the first sentence of 12 has come on the stand here to say 13 that document is relevant, and 13 we didn't have much of a problem. 14 that is the sentence beginning "it 14 MR. GOUTMAN: Well, your 15 is important to recognize." 15 Honor, I think the problem with 16 MR. MCCLAIN: Okay. But I 16 plaintiffs argument is there was 17 will ask him some questions about 17 no PCB problem in the T&S 18 foundation before we show that 18 Building. Pennsylvania Department 19 blow up. 19 of Health and the various 20 THE COURT: As I say, that I 20 plaintiffs in this case said so 21 would excise. 21 time and again until they decided 22 MR. MCCLAIN: I understand. 22 to sue the PCB defendants. 23 THE COURT: If you have a 23 But in any event, everything 24 foundation then you may get into 24 that Mr. Woodyard said is ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES I * TOWOLDMON0060705 1 1 J, f1 y t ! s ! f iwt :1 i. j 94 96 l completely consistent with what 1 and the Court has allowed them on 2 the Pennsylvania Department of 2 the issue of defect. The issue in 3 Health, the Pennsylvania 3 this instance is the U.S. out of 4 Department of Transportation and 4 the mainstream. I mean, is this 5 DGS said year after year. But 5 an overreaction by our government 6 leaving that aside, your Honor, 6 or have others reacted in the same 7 the fact that the public and the 7 way? And the issue is, of course, 8 news media have created a 8 we reacted in the same way every 9 subculture is not relevant to this 9 place it's been dealt with. And 10 case. 10 that's what the witness -- that's 11 MR. MCCLAIN: It's partly 11 why the witness points it out. 12 because PCBs comprise the only 12 The witness brings it to the 13 chemical class explicitly 13 attention of the reader in his PCB 14 controlled by an act of congress. 14 management handbook to show the 15 which the jury has already heard 15 U.S. Government is not out of sync 16 about and he recognizes this and 16 with everybody else. Everybody 17 he is part of this business 17 thinks this stuff needs to be 18 subculture that targets PCBs as 18 banned. So that's the essence of 19 major environmental hazard. A 19 the paragraph. 20 major environmental hazard are his 20 MR. GOUTMAN: Well, your 21 words. And the jury has a right 21 Honor, I believe the Court 22 to know that that's how he has 22 permitted the United States 23 characterized PCBs. 23 regulations because they're 24 THE COURT: Overruled. 24 relevant to the T&S Building, 95 97 1 MR. GOUTMAN: Next, your 1 since the T&S Building is located 2 Honor, Page 5,1 believe, relates 2 in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania USA 3 to most industrialized nations 3 what Canada regulations might be 4 have since imposed their own 4 or what United Kingdom regulations 5 controls and they talk about the 5 might be is irrelevant here. 6 regulations of Canada and Germany 6 MR. MCCLAIN: We've heard 7 and so forth. I don't know what 7 about studies all around the 8 the relevance of that is to this 8 world. We heard about studies 9 case. It's the middle paragraph. 9 from Dr. James of people in the 10 MR. MCCLAIN: Page 5. 10 Netherlands. We heard about other 11 THE COURT: On Page 5. 11 children that have been studied in 12 MR. GOUTMAN: Enacted in 12 these other populations, Norway. 13 1976, and they go on to talk about 13 We heard about a study from 14 the regulations in United Kingdom, 14 Norway. This is all related to 15 Norway, Canada and Germany. 15 the essence -- 16 THE COURT: Is it the whole 16 THE COURT: Only the first 17 paragraph? 17 sentence would be admissible. 18 MR. MCCLAIN: Yes. 18 MR. MCCLAIN: Actually, I 19 MR. GOUTMAN: I don't 19 think that's the way we have them 20 believe that those regulations are 20 blown up. 21 applicable to the T&S Building. 21 THE COURT: The objection is 22 MR. MCCLAIN: The issue is 22 sustained as to the remaining 23 the jury already knows about the 23 portion of the paragraph. The 24 U.S. regulations. These others -- 24 first sentence may be read. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060706 98 100 1 MR. MCCLAIN: Okay. 1 objection with the appropriate 2 MR. GOUTMAN: The next 2 subject matter. 3 thing, your Honor, is on Page 5 at 3 THE COURT: It will apply to 4 the very bottom. 4 CertainTeed and Courtaulds. 5 THE COURT: Now, where are 5 MS. MEYERS: That's correct, 6 you? 6 your Honor. Courtaulds also joins 7 MR. GOUTMAN: I'm on the 7 from all the objections. 8 same page, the last line of that 8 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, I 9 page under bioconcentration. Like 9 need ~ we have spread these 10 chlorinated pesticides, the 10 exhibits out all over the place 11 structure of PCBs bioconcentrate, 11 going through them. I need just a 12 bioaccumulate and biomagnify in 12 minute to organize them, if I 13 the food chain. There is nothing 13 could have it. It will take less 14 that this witness has said on 14 than five to probably put them in 15 direct about biomagnification in 15 order. 16 the food chain. There is nothing 16 THE COURT: We still have to 17 that he has said that this could 17 then tailor our cross examination 18 be used to impeach. It is well 18 to allow for reasonable luncheon 19 outside whatever the purposes this 19 period, but we will commence 20 witness was called for and it's 20 testimony before lunch. 21 irrelevant to this witness' 21 MR. MCCLAIN: I would like 22 testimony. 22 to, sure. I will be ready within 23 MR. MCCLAIN: It's the same 23 five minutes. 24 issue the Court has already ruled 24 THE COURT: That's fine. 99 101 1 on regarding the study of primates 1 Well take a five-minute recess. 2 and developmental problems. It 2 (Recess is taken at this 3 goes to the issue of safety. The 3 time.) 4 witness has written about it. 4 THE COURT CRIER: You may be 5 This is one of the reasons why he 5 seated. This Court is in session. 6 goes on to say why it's regulated 6 THE COURT: Good morning. 7 and why we're concerned about it, 7 THE COURT CRIER: Sir, state 8 and it relates to the general 8 your name for the record. 9 issue of his testimony about what 9 THE WITNESS: John Woodyard. 10 is safe and what isn't. 10 THE COURT CRIER: I remind 11 THE COURT: How much of that 11 you that you are still under oath. 12 paragraph? 12 MR. MCCLAIN: May I proceed, 13 MR. MCCLAIN: Just that 13 your Honor? 14 sentence, isn't it? 14 THE COURT: Yes. 15 MR. GOUTMAN: Yes. 15 MR. MCCLAIN: Good morning, 16 MR. MCCLAIN: Just that 16 ladies and gentlemen. 17 sentence. 18 THE COURT: Overruled. 17 THE JURY: Good morning. 18 * * * 19 MR. GOUTMAN: That's all I 19 EXAMINATION 20 have. 20 * * * 21 MS. HERSCHEL: Your Honor, 21 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 22 CertainTeed, of course, joins in 22 Q. Good morning, Mr. Woodyard. 23 the objection that Mr. Goutman has 23 I want to take up where we left off 24 made and asks for a continuing 24 yesterday -- where you left off, anyway, l j # i i ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 4 > TOWOLDMON0060707 102 104 1 with Mr. Goutman to see if I have this 1 Q. Now, you have been working ! \ 2 right. The last number you put up was 2 with Mr. Goutman for how long? Two 3 that you thought that it would take 1.3 3 years? 4 million to remove the asbestos and only 4 A. Approximately three, 5 $100,000 to decontaminate the building 5 actually. 6 for PCBs; is that right? 6 Q. And you have gotten pretty 7 A. My original estimate was 7 friendly with him; isn't that right? 8 13.3, actually. I think you read 1.3. 8 A. I know Mr. Goutman. 9 Q. I'm sorry. 13.3, and then 9 MS. MEYERS: Objection, your 10 $100,000 for the PCBs; am I right? 10 Honor, to the relevance of that 11 A. Yes. The PCB aspects of the 11 question. 12 asbestos abatement. 12 MR. MCCLAIN: It goes to 13 Q. Just so that I'm clear, as I 13 credibility and bias, your Honor. 14 remember from your qualifications, you 14 THE COURT: Overruled. 15 have been paid over $250,000 in this case 15 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 16 alone; am I right? 16 Q. In fact, he calls you Woody, 17 A. My firm has been paid, but 17 doesn't he? 18 that includes lab work, that includes 18 A. I ask that outside the 19 database management for all those 19 courtroom everybody call me Woody. 20 samples. It's a lot of work. 20 Q. Well, you didn't ask me to 21 Q. For your participation your 21 call you Woody when I took your 22 firm has been paid $250,000; am I right? 22 deposition, did you? 23 A Approximately, yes. 23 A. I consider that inside the 24 Q. And it's your testimony to 24 courtroom, but well have a chance 103 1 this jury that the PCB component of this 2 building would have cost us $100,000; is 3 that right? 4 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection. 5 That isn't what he said, your 6 Honor. 7 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 8 this is cross examination. 9 THE COURT: Overruled. 10 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 11 Q. That's the number you had up 12 here, Mr. Woodyard, $100,000. 13 A. That $100,000 is the PCB 14 related increment of that asbestos 15 abatement project. 16 Q. Right. And that's your 17 estimate, right, $100,000 for the PCB 18 related increment; is that right? 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 Q. You have charged $250,000 21 for your participation in this case; is 22 that right? 23 A. My firm has for all the work 24 we've done, yes. 105 1 someday, hopefully. 2 Q. And from your association 3 with Mr. Goutman you have gotten another 4 case for Monsanto Company down in Alabama 5 that you are working on; isn't that true? 6 A. Actually, it has nothing to 7 do with my association with Mr. Goutman. 8 Q. You are doing another case 9 for Monsanto in Alabama. 10 A Yes, sir, but I got involved 11 in that case with no relationship at all 12 through Tom. It was a completely 13 different avenue. 14 Q. Through Monsanto? 15 A That's correct. 16 Q. But before you met Mr. 17 Goutman you have, as you told the jury, 18 written about PCBs; is that correct? 19 A Yes, sir. 20 Q. One of the things that 21 you've written is the PCB management 22 handbook; isn't that right? By John P. 23 Woodyard and James J. King? 24 A Yes, that's correct. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060708 106 1 Q. You can buy this book from 2 industrial hygiene supply stores and 3 other things; isn't that right? 4 A. You could buy the book. 5 It's out of print now, but back in the 6 early 90s you could. 7 Q. Would it surprise you that I 8 bought this book a month ago? 9 A. Thank you. Thank you. 10 Q. It's still for sale, isnt 11 it? 12 A. Not to my knowledge. People 13 call and say it's been out of print for a 14 couple years. 15 Q. You get royalties when it's 16 sold, don't you? 17 A. Yes. Well, my daughter's 18 college fund. 19 Q. The Indian Princess. 20 A. Absolutely. 21 Q. We are going to talk about 22 that in just a little while. In this 23 book you have written various 24 instructions and information that other 108 1 MR. GOUTMAN: Mr. McClain, 2 could you show me the exhibit 3 before you show it? Thank you. 4 MR. MCCLAIN: It's the same 5 order we just went over with the 6 Court. 7 MR. GOUTMAN: I just would 8 like to see it first. 9 MR. MCCLAIN: Fine. 10 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 11 Q. Now, Mr. Woodyard, in this 12 book that you wrote for other 13 professionals, at Page 3 you have a 14 quote. Would you turn to Page 3. 15 A. Okay. I'm there. 16 Q. The quote -- counsel, you 17 with me? I have it blown up so that the 18 jury can read along with us. You 19 wrote,"Partly because PCBs comprise the 20 only chemical class explicitly controlled 21 by an act of congress, these chemicals 22 are a popular focus for the public and 23 the news media. The special treatment 24 has helped create a regulatory and 107 1 professionals can use when considering 2 the issue of PCB cleans ups; am I right? 3 A. Yes, sir. 4 Q. And I have taken some quotes 5 from that because I'd like to ask you 6 about them from your book. I have 7 excerpted portions of it, unless you have 8 a copy with you today. 9 A. No, I do not. 10 Q. And I have blown them up, 11 Mr. Woodyard. But this is just so you 12 can confirm whether or not the quotes are 13 accurate. I think counsel has looked at 14 them, but I want you to have a chance to 15 look at them and be sure about that, 16 too. 17 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, I 18 think it's important the witness 19 have the book in front of him, the 20 entire book in case any question 21 of context arises. 22 MR. MCCLAIN: I would be 23 happy to. 24 THE COURT: That's fine. 109 1 business subculture that targets PCBs as 2 a major environmental hazard." That's 3 what you wrote, didn't you? 4 A. That's correct. That's 5 what's in here. 6 Q. Yes. It's true, isnt it, 7 that your company is in the business of 8 addressing major environmental hazards; 9 isnt that true? Roy F. Weston, that's 10 your business? 11 A. Well, we do environmental 12 engineering and service work. 13 Q. As you told the jury, on 14 some dozens of PCB projects you have been 15 involved in cleanups; am I right? 16 A. Yes, that's correct. 17 Q. Now, there was -- there is 18 part of this quote that I want to come 19 back to and I think that we've heard it 20 before. I want to know, it's your view 21 that PCBs are the only chemical class 22 explicitly controlled by an act of 23 congress. That's true, isn't it? 24 A. Yes. The Toxic Substance 1 . [i 4 J ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060709 i 110 112 1 Control Act was passed in 1976 to 1 to the media hype, if you will, about 2 regulate the use of all chemicals in the 2 PCBs and about how the concern translates 3 United States, and at the time there were 3 to regulators and legislators. 4 no regulations that things like PCBs 4 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, so 5 could be subjected to. So congress 5 that you are with us, it's at Page 6 included PCB as one of the chemicals they 6 4. 7 wanted to regulate. 7 THE COURT: Page 4. 8 Q. Specifically PCBs? 8 MR. MCCLAIN: I will call 9 A Yes, sir. 9 out the page from now on. I 10 Q. The only class explicitly 10 apologize. 11 controlled by an act of congress, PCBs 11 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 12 are special in the law. 12 Q. "Unfortunately, these 13 A Because largely the popular 13 characteristics are also viewed as 14 focus of the media. There was concern 14 potential threats to human health and the 15 with Congress that they needed to have 15 environment." What you are referring to 16 some regulatory control and that's what 16 is the chemical stability, low solubility 17 they established. 17 characteristics of these chemicals; isn't 18 Q. And we are going to talk 18 that right? Isn't that what is viewed as 19 about some of the reasons for that right 19 potential threats to human health in the 20 now. Look at Page 4 of your handbook, 20 environment? 21 Mr. Woodyard. This quote at Page 4 21 A Not really. Those are 22 is,"PCBs developed about a hundred years 22 characteristics that made PCB the wonder 23 ago." So they were not natural in the 23 chemical that you are hearing about. 24 environment; am I right? They were 24 Before what concerned people is simply m 1 man-made about a hundred years ago; 2 right? 3 A. They were first developed in 4 the laboratory a hundred years ago, as I 5 understand. They weren't really 6 manufactured for use until quite some 7 time after that. 8 Q. But the point is that they 9 are a synthetic chemical. They are not a 10 naturally occurring substance in the 11 environment; isn't that true? 12 A That's correct. 13 Q. "PCBs developed about a 14 hundred years ago and are characterized 15 by chemicals stability, heat resistance, 16 low flammability, low solubility in water 17 and low electrical conductivity making 18 them suitable for many electrical and 19 high temperature industrial 20 applications. Unfortunately, these 21 characteristics are also viewed as 22 potential threats to human health and the 23 environment." That's what you wrote? 24 A. Yes. Again, referring back 113 1 their persistence in the environment and 2 the fact that you couldn't measure them. 3 At the time the laws were initiated and 4 the regulations were developed there 5 still was no certain knowledge that PCBs 6 were, in fact, a human health threat. 7 Q. You point that out at Page 8 5. You say,"In regard to the way they 9 act" -- your Honor, this is Page 5 of the 10 handbook. 11 THE COURT: We have it 12 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 13 Q. "Like chlorinated 14 pesticides." Tell the jury about some of 15 them they might remember. DDT was a 16 chlorinated pesticide, wasn't it? 17 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, 18 your Honor. Can we go to side 19 bar? 20 (Side-bar discussion begins 21 at this time.) 22 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 23 this Court has residually 24 attempted to keep other chemicals ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60710 l 114 116 1 out of this case. Mr. McClain 1 seeing here is doesn't the book 2 would now like to tar and feather 2 say this, doesn't the book say 3 PCBs with DDT and God knows what 3 that. The book speaks for 4 else. I don't want to defend a 4 itself. 5 DDT case. There are many 5 MR. MCCLAIN: These 6 distinguishing properties between 6 statements are in contravention of 7 the chemicals toxicologically and 7 the statements that he has made 8 otherwise, and I think it's, 8 before the jury in regard to the 9 frankly, outrageous that this jury 9 safety of these products and in 10 is now being treated to a 10 regard to the way that they need 11 comparison between DDT and PCBs. 11 to be handled and that they are 12 This Court has continuously ruled 12 safe to be left in this building. 13 that this is a PCB case; not a DDT 13 He has a right to be confronted 14 or any other kind of case. 14 with his previous statements and 15 MR. MCCLAIN: I didn't make 15 the jury can decide whether it 16 the comparison. This is the quote 16 impacts his credibility. He 17 that's contained within the 17 doesn't have to agree or 18 article and the witness made the 18 disagree. He wrote it. It's his 19 comparison. He says,"Like 19 statement. It's not a learned 20 chlorinated pesticides PCBs 20 treatise. It's his own 21 accumulate, bioaccumulate and 21 statement. It is impeachment. 22 biomagnify in the human system. 22 It's an admission against this 23 That's his quote. And so the most 23 witness that he said these things 24 common example of a chlorinated 24 out of court. And so it's nothing l \ i f <1 ] 115 1 117 1 pesticides is DDT, but I will let 1 different than in a deposition 2 him answer the question. 2 where you present them and said 3 MS. HERSCHEL: Just because 3 this is what you said in the 4 Mr. Woodyard treats a subject in 4 deposition, isn't it. And so we 5 his professional papers doesn't 5 have a situation here where he is 6 mean it can be bantered back and 6 being -- the Court has already 7 forth in this courtroom. 7 ruled on all these statements. 8 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 8 MR. GOUTMAN: Except the 9 while we're here, on to the maimer 9 Court hasn't ruled that this can 10 in which this is done. This is 10 be shown like a slide show. 11 not impeachment of a witness. 11 Counsel is right. If the witness 12 The witness is not being asked 12 had said something different in 13 whether -- in the abstract whether 13 his deposition you can read the 14 he agrees or disagrees with a 14 deposition, but you can't stand up 15 proposition. He is merely being 15 and say you said this in your 16 shown portions of the book and 16 deposition, didn't you? And you 17 saying isn't this what it says, 17 said that in your deposition. The 18 isn't this what it says. This is 18 witness said nothing in his direct 19 not impeachment. That is not the 19 about PCBs being banned or why 20 proper use of anyone's 20 they were banned. He is not being 21 publications. The proper use of a 21 impeached at all. This is 22 publication is if the witness says 22 essentially a closing speech by 23 something different and then you 23 plaintiffs counsel using excerpts 24 confront him with it. All we're 24 from the book. It's an improper ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 4 TOWOLDMONOQ60711 118 120 j 1 use of the material. 1 certain parts of our body and accumulate i i 2 THE COURT: At the moment 2 there; am I right? Bioconcentrate? 3 we're here with the last sentence 3 A. That's generally what that 4 on Page 5. That's the only area 4 means. ) 5 that we're going to rule on and 5 Q. So, like, in regard to PCBs, 6 the objection is overruled. 6 the literature that you looked at says 7 MR. MCCLAIN: Thank you. 7 they bioconcentrate in the liver, as an 8 your Honor. 8 example. That would be an example of 9 THE COURT: That is a form 9 where they bioconcentrate; am I right? 10 of impeaching. 10 A. I don't know that. I'm !1 11 (Side-bar discussion ends at 11 typically familiar with fat accumulation 12 this time.) 12 of things like PCBs it. 13 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 13 Q. Tell us what bioaccumulate 14 Q. I asked you for a 14 means. 15 chlorinated pesticide. Have you thought 15 A. It means that the amount of 16 of one? 16 PCB, or whatever compound you are talking 17 A. No, I haven't. 17 about, might tend to increase because the 18 Q. Is DDT one such chlorinated 18 body doesn't remove it as fast as it 19 pesticide? 19 might come in the body. 20 A I don't know. 20 Q. So you take some of it and 21 Q. What did you intend when you 21 it's retained in the body; is that the 22 wrote this, Mr. Woodyard? When you wrote 22 idea? It bioaccumulates. 23 chlorinated pesticide, did you have 23 A Some of it might. That's 24 anything in mind? 24 what that term is supposed to refer to. 119 1 A. The reference material that 1 Q. Because it's difficult to 121 2 we looked at to create the summary that 2 get rid of it because it's not water or 3 you are using pointed out that a number 3 fat soluble; right? 4 of chemicals like chlorinated pesticides 4 A. I believe so. 5 bioaccumulate, which is well-known, and 5 Q. And biomagnify in the food 6 that's the first signal to scientists 6 chain. What does biomagnify mean? 7 that they should look at these issues and 7 A. I think biomagnify refers to 8 determine whether there really is a 8 the accumulation through food chain I 9 health threat or not. 9 consumption, things that contain 10 Q. Like chlorinated pesticides, 10 chemicals. 11 the structural components of PCBs 11 Q. Doesn't biomagnify mean as 12 bioconcentrate, bioaccumulate and 12 it accumulates in the food chain it gets 13 biomagnify in the food chain. 13 larger in various species? Isn't that 14 Bioconcentrate, what does that term mean? 14 what it means, biomagnify in the food 15 Can you tell us? 15 chain? 16 A. It means that PCBs 16 A. In a manner of speaking it's 17 accumulate in certain parts of living 17 related to accumulation because it 18 organisms. 18 specifically identifies how PCBs got to 19 Q. Is bioconcentrate different 19 you, whether it's through fish or 20 than bioaccumulate? 20 something like that that might have low 21 A. In the sense that it would 21 levels of PCB. 22 target a particular part of the organism, 22 Q. It's true, isn't it. Page 5, 23 say a fat tissue or something. 23 your Honor, you have also written the 24 Q. In other words, they go to 24 Abrupt U.S. PCB Banned in 1976 was Partly ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60712 122 1 Motivated by the Discovery of Widespread, 2 Low Level PCB Contamination Worldwide. 3 Is that what you wrote, Mr. Woodyard? 4 A. Yes, sir. 5 Q. And it's true, isn't it, 6 that -- 7 A. Excuse me for a second. I'm 8 not sure -- what you need to understand, 9 and I didn't point this out before, this 10 particular version of the book, the blue 11 version, was edited by somebody at the 12 publisher and it was sold without an 13 author review. And because they weren't 14 scientific editors they tended to make it 15 more journalistic. If you flip through 16 here there is headings that are totally 17 off the wall. Some of the terminology in 18 here would not have been mine. The term 19 "abrupt U.S. banned" is not something I 20 think I would have written. 21 Q. Mr. Woodyard, are you saying 22 that this book that is sold -- 23 THE COURT: May I see 24 counsel, please. 124 1 THE COURT: Then I don't 2 have a problem. 3 (Side-bar discussion ends at 4 this time.) 5 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 6 Q. Mr. Woodyard, this book has 7 been sold over the country with your name 8 on it, am I right? 9 A. There is a black version 10 that looks just like this that has been 11 sold all over the country. These were 12 recalled. I don't know where you bought 13 it. 14 Q. Sir, I cant testify where I 15 bought it, but it's true, isn't it, that 16 copy has been circulated all over the 17 country with your name on it; am I right? 18 A. I have no idea. 19 Q. You received royalties on it 20 that went into your daughter's college 21 fund; isnt that true? 22 A. Not for the blue version I 23 didn't, no. 24 Q. So the blue version somebody 123 125 1 (Side-bar discussion begins 1 somehow snuck some words in there? 2 at this time.) 2 MS. HERSCHEL: Objection to 3 THE COURT: The paragraph 3 the form. 4 that you are reading is not one 4 THE WITNESS: That's 5 that was offered to the Court and 5 absolutely true. 6 we had highlighted those areas. 6 MR. MCCLAIN: It's cross 7 MR. MCCLAIN: Mr. Goutman 7 examination, your Honor. 8 didn't object to this one. This 8 THE COURT: Overruled. 9 one was most industrialized 9 THE WITNESS: I would not 10 nations. It was that point. 10 have used a term like "abrupt U.S. 11 THE COURT: If you notice 11 PCB banned" because there wasn't 12 that's out. And the next one -- 12 an abrupt U.S. PCB banned. There 13 we skipped this one and the next 13 was a law passed by congress that 14 one was this one. 14 directed EPA to develop management 15 MR. MCCLAIN: Right. 15 procedures for continuing to 16 THE COURT: The reason that 16 regulate how PCBs are to be used, 17 I'm bringing you here is because I 17 and it's perfectly legal today to 18 did not have the paragraph that 18 use PCBs for a number of things. 19 you are referring to highlighted 19 So there was no abrupt U.S. PCB 20 because I was not familiar with 20 banned and I cant vouch for that 21 this being part of the cross 21 language. 22 examination. 22 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 23 MR. MCCLAIN: Mr. Goutman 23 Q. Well, in the book that bears 24 didn't object to that paragraph. 24 your name it says the abrupt U.S. PCB l ii ) 1 t ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES . TOWOLDMONOQ60713 126 1 banned in 76 was partly motivated by the 2 discovery of widespread, low level PCB 3 contamination worldwide; am I right? 4 A. That's what the blue book 5 says. 6 Q. It's true, isn't it, that 7 widespread low level PCB contamination 8 worldwide has been discovered; isn't that 9 true? 10 A. PCBs have been identified at 11 extremely low levels in a number of 12 locations around the world, yes. 13 Q. As you pointed out on the 14 board that I have two back, this PCB low 15 level contamination was, in fact, created 16 by man; am I right? It was 17 manufactured. 18 A. The PCBs themselves were 19 manufactured by man. In fact, they are 20 distributed at extremely low levels 21 worldwide and the result of extremely low 22 level environmental releases, I assume, 23 over many, many decades. 24 Q. They bioconcentrate, 128 1 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 2 Q. That's some of the things 3 that have concerned the regulators and 4 others as they banned PCBs; am I right? 5 A. No. Their primary concern 6 was the existence of PCBs in the 7 environment at all and making sure for 8 the safety of people that those levels 9 were somehow regulated on the basis of 10 some type of risk. At that point, and at 11 the point we wrote this, a lot of that 12 was sketchy scientific research. 13 Q. Widespread low level PCB 14 contamination is what you are talking 15 about worldwide; right? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. And you wrote that 18 reproductive tests on primates that 19 involve PCB contamination have resulted 20 in total reproductive failure, increased 21 mortality, stillbirth and low birth rates 22 for surviving test subjects; true? 23 A. The fact that is cited in 24 there bears no relationship to this low 127 1 bioaccumulate and biomagnify in the food 2 chain; true? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. Now, this is Page 8, your 5 Honor, from the handbook. You also wrote 6 about reproductive tests on primates that 7 involve PCB contamination have resulted 8 in total reproductive failure, increased 9 mortality, still birth and low birth 10 rates for surviving test subjects, didn't 11 you? 12 A. Where is that in here? 13 Q. Page 8. 14 A. Where is that on Page 8? 15 Q. I think it's in the middle 16 of the paragraph or the end of the 17 paragraph. 18 THE COURT: It would be the 19 last sentence of the third 20 paragraph. 21 THE WITNESS: Okay. Thank 22 you, your Honor. Yes, that's what 23 it says in here, again, subject to 24 the qualifier I gave you before. 129 1 level worldwide concentration that we are 2 talking about. There is nothing in here 3 about concentration, as you heard Dr. 4 James explain. That's the all important 5 factor in doing these types of tests. 6 And it requires the liver research. This 7 is not based on primates that were found 8 in the wild and tested. This is based on 9 actual scientific laboratory research. 10 Q. It is, isn't it? It's 11 actual laboratory scientific research. 12 A. Back at the time that this 13 was written there wasn't much available 14 in the 10 or 12 years since that work was 15 published. There has been a tremendous 16 amount of information out there, as you 17 heard from Dr. James, a lot of news and a 18 lot of studies that have shown quite the 19 opposite. There isn't quite the health 20 effect concern that was expressed by 21 congress 25 years ago. 22 Q. Did you ever write a letter 23 to all the people that bought your book 24 and say now that I heard Dr. James I want ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60714 130 1 to change what I wrote? Have you ever 2 done that, Mr. Woodyard? 3 A. No. But the beginning of 4 this book, like any book, there is a 5 qualifier that says anybody who wants to 6 make decisions in the field about things 7 like PCB cleanup should consult the most 8 current regulations and most current 9 scientific literature. This type of book 10 when it comes to health effects 11 information is more like Reader's 12 Digest. It's a summary of a moment in 13 time of what information is available. 14 Obviously, from what you heard in court 15 here, there is a lot more, a lot better 16 information out there now that 17 contradicts a lot of this. 18 Q. And there is a lot that 19 supports it. But we are not here to 20 debate that. I'm talking about what you 21 wrote. 22 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection. 23 Motion to strike counsel's 24 commentary. 132 1 A Yes, absolutely. The term 2 PCB contaminated has a very specific 3 meaning in the regulations and in the law 4 that is really geared toward electrical 5 equipment where PCB levels are high and 6 workers might be in contact with it all 7 the time like in a utility service shop 8 or someplace like that. It doesn't refer 9 to anything really but that. 10 Q. Look at Page 9, would you, 11 and refer to us any language that you 12 have that qualifies that statement. Go 13 ahead and read it. Read us anything you 14 like to from Page 9. 15 A. The headings that are in 16 here are very different from the ones in 17 the final versions. I can't vouch for 18 how the book is broken up. I'm chuckling 19 because some of the headings are funny. 20 Q. Funny? 21 A. Funny in the sense that they 22 aren't scientific or technical headings. 23 There is a heading in there in the 24 section that talks about cleaning up 131 1 THE COURT: Sustained. 2 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, I 3 -- let me ask a question. 4 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 5 Q. Now, it's true, isn't it, 6 that this is what you wrote in your book, 7 PCB Management Handbook, Mr. Woodyard, 8 that's what you wrote? 9 A. That's what's in here. I 10 have to check it against the real version 11 to determine if it's exactly what I said. 12 Q. Now, you also wrote, didn't 13 you, at Page 9 of your PCB Management 14 Handbook -- and by the way, this book was 15 written before you started doing work for 16 Monsanto; isn't that true? 17 A. Yes, that's correct. 18 Q. "A strict program of personal 19 hygiene," this is at Page 9, your Honor. 20 You say,"A strict program of personal 21 hygiene should be established in any 22 workplace where the work can involve PCB 23 contaminated equipment." That's true, 24 isn't it? 133 1 spills that says "out with wash", which 2 sounds more like a newspaper article than 3 it does a technical book. 4 Q. Funny with your name on it, 5 am I right? 6 A Excuse me? 7 Q. Funny and it bears your name 8 on its front page. 9 A I'm embarrassed by the fact 10 that is even out there. I don't know how 11 you got a copy. 12 Q. Now -- 13 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection. 14 Could I see the Court at side bar? 15 (Side-bar discussion begins 16 at this time.) 17 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 18 I'd like to object to this exhibit 19 and I'd like to at this time - 20 this is found at Page 13. The 21 chapter of the heading is chapter 22 two. 23 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, I 24 think that we need to argue this i ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60715 134 136 1 out of the presence of the jury 1 precluding you from having lunch i 2 because it will take a little more 2 with defense counsel. We are just 3 than just a -- if he is really 3 advising you that conversations 4 objecting to it. 4 relating to the subject matter of 5 THE COURT: 1 assume he is. 5 the trial cannot be discussed 6 MS. HERSCHEL: Me too. 6 during lunch, and I know that Mr. 7 MR. NEAL: Since we're all 7 Goutman and other counsel are 8 standing here. 8 familiar with that, and I'm sure 9 MR. MCCLAIN: I'm willing to 9 now you know and you are familiar 10 break right now. 10 with it. 11 THE COURT: But the major 11 THE WITNESS: Yes. Thank 12 problem is I don't have it. 12 you, your Honor. .! 13 MR. MCCLAIN: You don't have 13 MR. GOUTMAN: May I call him 14 13? Yes. It's before Page 8. 14 Woody? 15 It's out of sequence. 15 THE COURT: Outside the 16 THE COURT: Why wouldn't I 16 courtroom. 17 remember that? 17 MR. MCCLAIN: Please do. 18 MR. MCCLAIN: I remember 18 (The jury and the witness 19 everything you've said, your 19 are excused at this time.) 20 Honor. 20 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 21 THE COURT: I got Page 13. 21 the basis for my objection is that 22 MR. MCCLAIN: That's it. 22 much of this paragraph concerns 23 THE COURT: Industrial 23 postsale conduct of Monsanto 24 history. 24 Company and this Court precluded 135 137 1 MR. GOUTMAN: Yep. 1 numerous documents that plaintiffs 2 THE COURT: I only have one 2 sought to introduce concerning 3 page. Is that all we need? 3 postsale conduct of actually all 4 MR. MCCLAIN: It's after 4 the defendants, at least all of 5 TSCA. After TSCA 5 the PCB defendants, and the same 6 THE COURT: Okay. Well 6 proposition holds here. 7 break for lunch. 7 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, I 8 MR. MCCLAIN: Okay. 8 mean, the whole subject of TSCA is 9 (Side-bar discussion ends at 9 postsale. The Court has allowed 10 this time.) 10 it on the issue of defect and we i 11 THE COURT: We are going to 11 have a witness here who professes 12 recess for lunch at this point, or 12 to know that Monsanto cut its 13 at least the jury is going to 13 sales of PCBs for certain on 14 recess for lunch. We have another 14 electrical applications, and what 15 matter that we are going to take 15 we've seen in the documents what * 16 up during the recess. So we're 16 they cut was the plasticizer 17 going to recess until 2 o'clock. 17 applications in 1970. And the 18 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 18 reason they did was because of 19 before we can excuse Mr. Woodyard 19 their concern for releases to the 20 can we have the traditional 20 environment. 21 admonition of witnesses discussing 21 Now, the witness has written 22 the case? 22 about this subject in the book. 23 THE COURT: We're going to 23 the plasticizers that we're here 24 recess for lunch. We are not 24 to talk about. He has introduced ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60716 138 140 1 this subject to a readership 1 is referring to that went to 2 worldwide in his handbook and he 2 defect. The Court ruled if we had 3 ought to be asked about 3 it, it would be admissible, but 4 plasticizers. And what I want to 4 without an expert it's not 5 ask him about is regarding 5 admissible. We have an expert on 6 Monsanto and what they cut in 70 6 the stand who has written on the 7 was plasticizers. Do you know 7 subject and I ought to be able to 8 that? That is what you are 8 explore this with him because he 9 referring to. Yes. Why do they 9 has rendered the opinion to the 10 doit? Because of this worldwide 10 jury that they don't vaporize. 11 low level pollution that we are 11 They do vaporize. They get into 12 talking about. They escape to the 12 the environment. They are an open 13 environment. That's what it's all 13 system and this witness knows 14 about. It goes to this 14 that. He has written about it so 15 vaporization idea that we are here 15 we have a right to explore it. 16 to address, its ability to off 16 And it goes to the nature of the 17 gas. It's all related. 17 defect. The defect is this 18 MR. GOUTMAN: I think, your 18 product vaporizes. That's what 19 Honor, this Court concluded months 19 we're here about. 20 ago that Pennsylvania law is clear 20 MR. GOUTMAN: This Court 21 that the postsale conduct of an 21 rejected that argument last -- I 22 alleged tortfeasor whether it's a 22 believe the Court initially ruled 23 402 A case or what is not 23 perhaps in June and they filed a 24 admissible. The Court ruled out 24 petition for reconsideration and 139 141 1 numerous documents on this basis. 1 the Court reaffirmed its ruling, I 2 Now they want to get into it. The 2 believe, in either the end of 3 mere fact that this witness has 3 August or early September. 4 written on it does not make it 4 Plaintiffs argue, well, it goes to 5 admissible. And, indeed, once 5 defect. And this Court ruled, I 6 again, your Honor, this witness 6 believe, that they're postsale 7 said nothing about what Monsanto 7 actions which simply don't go 8 did or didn't do on direct. But 8 before the jury. Now plaintiffs 9 in any event, your Honor, I 9 counsel has said what they are 10 believe the Court was scrupulous 10 talking about is vaporization. 11 about keeping out postsale 11 There is nothing in here about 12 documents based upon clear 12 vaporization. And, once again, we 13 Pennsylvania law concerning 13 go to a fundamental problem, your 14 postsale duty to warn, and, 14 Honor, of the way plaintiff is 15 therefore, references to what 15 using this as sort of a closing 16 Monsanto did or didn't do in the 16 speech slide show where, 17 1970s should not go before this 17 incidentally, he asks some 18 jury. 18 questions of Mr. Woodyard, which 19 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 19 involve largely didn't you say 20 you have ruled that postsale 20 this, didn't you say that? This 21 evidence could come in on defect. 21 witness has said nothing about 22 The defect is what I want to focus 22 what Monsanto did or didn't do. 23 on and the Court -- specifically 23 This isn't impeachment material 24 on some of these documents that he 24 and it doesn't say anything about ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES I f ! . TOWOLDMONOQ60717 4 142 144 1 vaporization in here. Now, it's 1 admissible. j 2 not even impeachment material and 2 MS.HERSCHEL: Your Honor 3 it gets into postsale conduct. 3 has ruled clearly that postsale 4 Tliat's the basis for my 4 conduct and knowledge are not 5 objection. Thank you, your 5 issues in this case, and that has 6 Honor. 6 not changed by any expert's area 7 MS. MEYERS: It just 7 of expertise. 8 occurred to me in listening to Mr. 8 MR. MCCLAIN: It goes to 9 McClain explain what he wants to 9 defect, your Honor. 10 do with this that in addition what 10 THE COURT: The objection is 11 he is trying to elicit from this 11 sustained. Anything further? 12 witness is hearsay speculation 12 MR. GOUTMAN: No, sir. 13 about why Monsanto did what it did 13 THE COURT: We will now 14 and what Monsanto knew at any 14 recess for lunch. 15 given time. And there's certainly 15 (A luncheon recess is taken 16 no foundation for that with this 16 at this time from 12:35 p.m. until 17 witness. 17 2:15 p.m.) 18 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 18 MR. MCCLAIN: For the 19 they qualify him as an expert, as 19 record. Exhibit 4008 A was Page 3 20 a PCB control expert. They 20 from the Woodyard and King 21 qualified him in the area of PCB 21 beginning"partly because PCBs." 22 chemistry and the analytical 22 Exhibit 4008 B. I from Woodyard 23 methods. They qualified this 23 and King's book at Page 4 24 witness in the cost of cleaning up 24 begjnning"PCBs developed." Exhibit 143 145 1 PCBs. They've qualified him in 1 4008 C is from Woodyard and King's 2 every single area. An expert can 2 book from Page 5. It begins,"Like 3 rely on hearsay and render 3 chlorinated pesticides." Exhibit 4 opinions about it. And he has 4 4008 D is from Page 5 of Woodyard 5 rendered an opinion regarding why 5 and King and it says "the abrupt 6 they stopped selling it and it 6 U.S. PCB banned." That's the 7 relates to this open system 7 beginning of the sentence. 4008 E 8 nonelectrical applications. The 8 is reproductive tests on primates 9 plasticizers that we're concerned 9 from Page 8 of Woodyard and King's 10 about that got free in this 10 book and 4008 F begins "a strict 11 building and contaminated it. 11 program," and it's from Page 9 of 12 That's the whole purpose of the 12 Woodyard and King's book. And 13 examination. 13 those were read to the witness 14 MR. GOUTMAN: Well, your 14 while he was on the stand. Mr. 15 Honor, Mr. Woodyard was not 15 Goutman, do you acknowledge or do 16 qualified in the field of 16 you agree that those are the ri 17 clairvoyance or mind reading and 17 correct exhibit numbers and 18 plaintiffs counsel believes that 18 exhibits that were read to the 19 he can question this jury as to 19 witness? 20 why Monsanto did what it did. It 20 MR. GOUTMAN: I don't 21 does not state here why Monsanto 21 acknowledge anything. Yes. 22 did what it did. It just says 22 MR. MCCLAIN: Note that 23 what Monsanto did, and what 23 there was laughter in exchange 24 Monsanto did after 1970 is not 24 between counsel. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60718 146 148 1 THE COURT: I just want to 1 presiding. You may be seated. 2 refresh my memory about our 2 THE COURT: Mr. McClain, Mr. 3 schedule. As I remember we're due 3 Woodyard. 4 here the rest of this week. 4 THE COURT CRIER: Your full 5 Thursday and Friday. And for next 5 name and address. 6 week we have several days that 6 THE WITNESS: John Woodward, 7 were out, if I remember correctly. 7 W-O-O-D-Y-A-R-D. 8 MR. GOUTMAN: That's 8 THE COURT CRIER: Your 9 correct. 9 address. 10 MR. MCCLAIN: I know about 10 THE WITNESS: 610 Paradise 11 Tuesday. What other days are we 11 Lane in Liberty, Illinois. 12 out? 12 * * * 13 MR. NEAL: Friday. 13 JOHN WOODYARD, after having 14 THE COURT: I think Friday 14 been duly sworn, was examined and 15 we're out. 15 testified as follows: 16 MR. GOUTMAN: A juror can't 16 *** 17 make it either Monday or Friday, 18 according to my notes. 17 18 EXAMINATION *** 19 TOE COURT: So I'm-that's 19 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 20 Tuesday and Friday that we're out 20 Q. Mr. Woodyard, now you're 21 -- or Monday, Tuesday and Friday. 21 double sworn. 22 MR. GOUTMAN: Monday my 22 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 23 notes said that a juror is not 23 before we begin, Mr. Goutman and I 24 available Monday and Friday and I 24 read the exhibit numbers from 147 149 1 asked the Court to take Tuesday 1 those blow-ups into the record 2 off. 2 before the Court ascended the 3 THE COURT: You have 3 bench and we agreed those were the 4 something very special on 4 ones that were read to the witness 5 Thursday -- 5 -- shown to the witness 6 MR. GOUTMAN: Tuesday. 6 previously. 7 THE COURT: Tuesday. Which 7 TOE COURT: That's fine. 8 only gives us Wednesday and 8 MR. MCCLAIN: I would like 9 Thursday of next week. But I 9 them noted for the record and at 10 wanted to be in sync and I wanted 10 the end I'm going to be moving 11 to be able to tell the jury. By 11 those into evidence. We could 12 the way, did you meet Sam, our new 12 just move them into evidence now 13 court officer for the rest of the 13 so that. 14 day? 14 TOE COURT: You may. 15 MR. MCCLAIN: He has been 15 MR. MCCLAIN: I move those 16 here before. 16 into evidence that we read in the 17 THE COURT: Yes, he has. 17 morning session. 18 MR. MCCLAIN: We said hello 18 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, 19 again. 19 your Honor. I believe he's 20 THE COURT CRIER: All rise. 20 rested. 21 In the name of the Commonwealth of 21 THE COURT: Pardon me? 22 Pennsylvania this court is now 22 MR. GOUTMAN: He's rested, 23 open. The Honorable Charles P. 23 your Honor. 24 Mirarchi, Junior, is now 24 THE COURT: I didn't hear d i 4 i ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 4 TOWOLDMONOQ60719 150 152 1 you. 1 MR. MCCLAIN: I wanted the 2 MR. GOUTMAN: Plaintiff 2 general subject area, your Honor. 3 rested five months ago. 3 THE WITNESS: Where is that? 4 THE COURT: Plaintiff did 4 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 5 rest. 5 Q. It's on Page 27, Mr. 6 MR. GOUTMAN: I object to 6 Woodyard, about residual contamination. 7 him moving it into evidence. 7 A. I'm not finding it. Can you 8 THE COURT: Overruled. 8 show me exactly where it is? 9 MS. MEYERS: Your Honor, 9 Q. Sure. I obviously have the 10 could Mr. McClain announce to the 10 wrong page or I cant find it either. 11 rest of us -- 11 Wait a minute. Here it is. It's in the 12 THE COURT: I think we're 12 middle of this paragraph. 13 going to need the microphones. 13 THE COURT: Okay. Now could 14 MS. MEYERS: My question was 14 we have the Court find it? 15 could Mr. McClain tell the rest of 15 MR. MCCLAIN: It's in the 16 us the exhibit numbers. 16 paragraph beginning "other 17 THE COURT: Yes, fine. 17 applications", your Honor, on Page 18 Would you identify the exhibits 18 27. 19 that you -- 19 THE COURT: Okay. Fine. 20 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 20 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 21 next time well do this in open 21 Q. That's the paragraph we were 22 court. 4008 A, 4,008 B, 4008 C, 22 looking for. 23 4008 D, 4008 E, 4008 F. 23 A. I found it. And the 24 MS. MEYERS: Thank you. 24 question is? 151 153 1 MR. MCCLAIN: You're 1 Q. The concept that's discussed 2 welcome. 2 there involves fires disclosing residual 3 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 3 contamination in buildings. 4 Q. Mr. Woodyard, we broke at 4 A. Yes, sir. 5 lunch and I want to deal with another 5 Q. All right. And the concept 6 subject. In your book you write about a 6 you discuss there is that sometimes 7 situation where following a fire 7 following a fire involving PCB 8 sometimes you will find what's called 8 transformers you can find contamination 9 residual contamination, don't you? 9 that previously existed in the building 10 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, 10 that you didn't know about; am I right? 11 your Honor. If there is a 11 A. Well, the specific term 12 specific passage that he is 12 "residual sources" in this context in 13 pointing him to -- 13 the situations I have been involved in 14 THE COURT: Sustained. 14 relates specifically to things like 15 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 15 office products. I think we might have 16 Q. I would be happy to, your 16 discussed earlier the fact that 3 17 Honor. I just wanted to -- before 17 carbonless copy paper made 30 years ago, 18 refreshing his recollection does he not 18 40 years ago contains a small amount of 19 recollect it? It's at Page 27. 19 PCB. So if you have a lot of carbon 20 THE COURT: I think even if 20 paper in your office back in those days 21 a person wrote a book, just to 21 you would have some small, low level 22 pick a sentence out of it would 22 residual maybe on desks or somewhere in 23 not be sufficient to draw his 23 the office environment. So it's 24 attention to it. 24 analogous in a way to this background ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060720 stW}m,si,eK 154 1 concept we were talking about before. 2 Q. PCBs that vaporize from 3 other sources and get onto surfaces that 4 you are unaware of. 5 A. Excuse me. I didn't say 6 anything about vaporizing. If you got 7 carbon paper on a desk it rubs off on the 8 desk. 9 Q. It's true, isn't it, that 10 sometimes this residual contamination 11 from sources that you are unaware of, or 12 that's even in the air, as you talked 13 about, background, can be unknown until 14 there's a fire and it's discovered, isn't 15 that true? 16 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection to 17 the form of the question. That's 18 a compound question. 19 THE COURT: Sustained. 20 THE WITNESS: Could you 21 repeat it, please. 22 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 23 Q. You talked about background 24 contamination; am I right? 156 1 book. It's not really a term of art. 2 Q. It's a term you used? 3 A. That's correct, correct. 4 And it really refers to the sort of 5 background concentrations we have been 6 talking about. 7 Q.' Now, I want to go to another 8 issue. You talked to Mr. Goutman 9 repeatedly about the EPA safe level. You 10 said it was called the EPA safe level. I 11 want to hand you what we marked 12 previously as 3221.3A 13 THE COURT: What was that 14 number? 15 MR. MCCLAIN: 3221.3A your 16 Honor, the EPA spill policy. 17 MS. HERSCHEL: Mr. McClain, 18 can we have one more? 19 MR. MCCLAIN: If you say 20 please. 21 MS. HERSCHEL: Thank you. 22 MR. MCCLAIN: You're 23 welcome. Your Honor, could I hand 24 one up to the Court, please. # j 4 1 1 155 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And so it's possible that a 3 fire will disclose, quote-unquote, 4 background contamination; isn't that 5 true? 6 A. Well, the fire doesn't 7 disclose it. What happens, as you can 8 imagine, if you have a spill in a 9 location where PCB carbon paper, for 10 example, might have been used a long time 11 ago and you start taking samples, you 12 might not have known that there was any 13 low level background already there and 14 you find that out because suddenly you 15 are taking samples for the first time. 16 So it's important to know what those 17 background levels are before you start 18 the cleanup so that you're not knocking 19 yourself out trying to get to an 20 extremely low level when there's already 21 some there. 22 Q. Residual contamination you 23 call it, right? That's the term used. 24 A. Well, that's the term in the 157 1 THE COURT: I'm sure we have 2 one, but we don't carry all of the 3 exhibits with us. 4 MR. MCCLAIN: That's why I 5 made extra copies. 6 THE COURT: Thank you. 7 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 8 Q. Now, I had a copy that was 9 highlighted. Who has my copy? Have I 10 given that to you, Mr. Goutman? 11 A. I believe I may. Are you 12 talking about yellow? Do I win a prize? 13 Q. You get to trade me so I 14 know what questions to ask. 15 A. I see. 16 Q. You are familiar with this, 17 are you not? 18 A. Yes, I am. 19 Q. Now, you said repeatedly 20 this was called the EPA safe standard, 21 didn't you, to Mr. Goutman? 22 A. I've used terms like that. 23 or EPA safe level when referring to the 24 cleanup standards themselves. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 4 TOWOLDMONOQ60721 j 158 160 1 Q. Read to the jury anywhere in 1 that's in here. 2 that document that says that. 2 Q. The one that's in here at 3 A. I don't recall it being in 3 page -- when we say "in here" it's in the 4 here. 4 federal register at page -- your Honor, 5 Q. It's not in there, is it? 5 it's at 10690. It begins at the bottom 6 A. The exact wording, no. 6 at four. 7 Q. It's not called the EPA safe 7 A. Was there a question? u 8 standard in the document, is it? 8 Q. I'm letting the Court find 9 A. No. It's referred to by a 9 where we are before I begin. 10 number of different names throughout the 10 A. I understand. 11 industry. 11 THE COURT: Okay. 12 Q. It's called the EPA 12 MR. MCCLAIN: Do you see 13 polychlorinated biphenyl spill clean up 13 where we are, your Honor? J 14 policy final rule; am I right? 14 THE COURT: Yes. 15 A. No. The EPA safe standard 15 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 16 we have been talking about is a number. 16 Q. A spill is defined as the 17 It's a clean up target that you use when 17 term as used in this policy means both 18 you are taking samples. 18 intentional and unintentional spills, 19 Q. Mr. Woodyard, is this 19 leaks and other uncontrolled discharges 20 document called the polychlorinated 20 where the release results in any quantity 21 biphenyl and spill clean up policy final 21 of PCBs running off or about to run off 22 rule? 23 A. Yes, it is. 24 Q. And this is the document 22 the external surface of the equipment or 23 other PCB source as well as the 24 contamination resulting from these 159 1 which establishes this ten number that 2 we've been looking at throughout this 3 case; am I right? 4 A. Yes, that's correct. 5 Q. And that's for high contact 6 interior surfaces; am I right? 7 A. Yes, in general, that's 8 true. 9 Q. Now, let's look at this 10 document, would you, for a minute. This 11 document relates to spills, doesn't it? 12 Isn't that what it says? 13 A. Yeah. That's part of the 14 title. 15 Q. Yeah. It's part of the 16 title. In fact, you have a definition of 17 what a spill is in your book, don't you? 18 A. I don't recall. 19 Q. It's taken directly from the 20 EPA spill policy. Look at that for the 21 jury, if you would. Your Honor, I don't 22 have an excerpt on the bench right now. 23 A. Yes. There is a definition 24 in my book. It's not the same as the one 161 1 releases; am I right? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. That's the definition of 4 what a spill is? 5 A. Yeah. It goes on. 6 Q. It says,"This policy applies 7 to spills of 50 parts per million or 8 greater PCBs. The concentration of PCBs 9 spilled is determined by the PCB 10 concentration in the material spilled as 11 opposed to concentrations of PCBs in the 12 material onto which the PCBs were 13 spilled." Did I read that accurately, 14 Mr. Woodyard? 15 A. Yes, yes. 16 Q. Let's read that again 17 because it was -- 18 A. I'm sony. My copy is kind 19 of garbled from the copying source and my 20 glasses are kind of old. 21 Q. I'm responsible for the 22 copying, but not your glasses. 23 A. I understand. 24 Q. "The concentration of PCBs ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60722 162 1 spilled is determined by the PCB 2 concentration in the material spilled as 3 opposed to the concentration of PCBs in 4 the material onto which the PCBs were 5 spilled." Did I read that right? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. What that means is that the 8 way we determine whether or not 50 parts 9 per million exist in a circumstance is 10 not in relation to the surface or area 11 where the material is spilled, but the 12 material from which that spill so-called 13 came; am I right? 14 A. That's what that definition 15 means, yes, sir. 16 Q. And then it says,"Where a 17 spill of untested mineral oil occurs, the 18 oil is presumed to contain greater than 19 50 parts per million but less than 500 20 parts per million as is the subject to 21 the relevant requirements of this 22 policy," right? That doesn't apply 23 here. We don't have mineral oil 24 containing PCBs that we know about, am I 164 1 A. No. I think the jury can 2 understand that a spill, and I will 3 excerpt the words out here, a spill 4 includes an unintentional, uncontrolled 5 discharge where the release results in 6 any quantity of PCBs. 7 Q. Is that what it says, Mr. 8 Woodyard, or does it say this? Let's 9 show the jury. Let's show them what the 10 words really say. You and I can read 11 them, but it would be helpful to see 12 them. 13 A I think - 14 Q. So that we're reading 15 together, it says here, Jim, if you can 16 focus that tighter. Perfect. It says 17 here,"Spill, the term as used in this 18 policy means both intentional and 19 unintentional spills, leaks and other 20 uncontrolled discharges where the release 21 results in any quantity of PCBs running 22 off or about to run off the external 23 surface of equipment or other PCB 24 source." I want to focus on these words i Cl 163 1 right? 2 A. Really, most of the 3 definition doesn't apply to the T&S 4 Building. 5 Q. Right. Because we don't 6 have a spill as defined here; am I right? 7 A. Not at all. We have a 8 release that you define as a spill for 9 purposes of taking some action to clean 10 it up. 11 Q. By this definition it's not 12 a spill, is it? 13 A I think you would be able to 14 take issue with that. 15 Q. I'm asking you what the 16 words say. 17 A. No. This is absolutely a 18 spill. 19 Q. What spilled? 20 A. What was released during the 21 fire is a spill. 22 Q. Tell the jury what ran off 23 the external surface of the equipment or 24 other PCB source. 165 1 for a minute and tell me what ran off or 2 was about to run off the external surface 3 of equipment or other PCB source in that 4 building, the T&S Building. 5 A EPA has always interpreted a 6 release as being a release -- forget the 7 words ran off or about to ran off. We're 8 talking about contamination, which they 9 cite very clearly there, contamination 10 resulting from those releases. 11 Q. Mr. Woodyard, we said the 12 words now. I'm not talking about 13 someone's interpretation. 14 A The interpretation is 15 everything. This guideline is set up for 16 people who don't want to talk to EPA or 17 deal with them on a relatively routine 18 spill. 19 Q. So we have to look at the 20 words. 21 A This, as you characterize 22 it, hardly qualifies as a routine spill. 23 It's a catastrophic fire that released 24 PCBs into this building. ij ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 4 TOWOLDMONOQ60723 lee 168 1 Q. Absolutely. And this is a 1 Q. You agree with me that there 2 routine spill policy, isn't it? 2 was no running off -- there was nothing 3 A The policy itself is 3 that was running off or about to run off 4 designed for what I would consider a 4 any external surface in the T&S 5 routine spill. I would agree with you. 5 Building. 6 Q. And the words here about 6 A. That's correct. But there 7 what is a spill does not apply to the 7 clearly was contamination resulting from 8 situation at the T&S Building; am I 8 the release, which is what the EPA is 9 correct? 9 really worried about. ft 10 A. Well, the words running off 10 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, I 11 or about to run off don't, but the 11 ask that that part of the answer 12 concept clearly does. 12 be stricken. I asked whether 13 Q. The words -- 13 there was any run off. 14 A You take a release that 14 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, it 15 results in contamination, which is what 15 was responsive to the question. 16 they're talking about. That's EPA's 16 THE COURT: Overruled. 17 concern is that the PCBs somehow escape 17 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 18 their use and are available as 18 Q. Now, Mr. Woodyard, let's 19 contaminants. 19 look at some other things in this 20 Q. Mr. Woodyard -- 20 document. Now, you also mentioned, did 21 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor -- 21 you not, something about NIOSH and 22 THE COURT: We are having a 22 transformers and electric capacitors. 23 run over between the answer and 23 There is a whole section on leaks and 24 the next question, so I don't know 24 spills from transformers and capacitors 167 169 1 that we have the, quote, answer 1 in this document as well, isn't there, if 2 recorded. 2 you look over at Page 10695. 3 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 3 A. You are referring to the 4 Q. I apologize if I stepped on 4 section under "risks posed by leaks and 5 the witness's words, your Honor. But my 5 spills of PCB." 6 question really is this: Do the words as 6 Q. Yes, sir. 7 written here on this screen describe the 7 A. Yes, that's correct. 8 situation at the T&S Building? And I 8 Q. And it talks about 9 think the answer to that is no, isn't it, 9 transformers and capacitors leaking; am I 10 Mr. Woodyard? 10 right? And how much leak from them. 11 A. It was not EPA's intent to 11 A, Yes, that's correct. It's a 12 give you a cookbook to clean up a 12 narrative explaining the whole concept of 13 catastrophic incident like the T&S 13 capacitor and transformer leaks. 14 Building. Clearly this is not as written 14 Q. And that's not what happened 15 relevant directly to cleaning up the PCB 15 at the T&S Building, is it? 16 spill there. 16 A No. Absolutely not. 17 Q. And, likewise, Mr. Woodyard, 17 Q. Now, look over at -- this 18 this definition does not apply to what 18 document talks about some issues about 19 happened at the T&S Building; am I right? 19 the applicability of this spill policy 20 A. The definition in general is 20 over at Page 10782,1 believe it is. 21 intended to apply to any type of 21 Jim. 22 contamination when you are talking about 22 MS. HERSCHEL: It only goes 1 23 spills. The release from the intended 23 up to 709. I 24 use of the PCB. 24 BY MR. MCCLAIN: ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60724 170 1 Q. 702. It's 10,702. 2 A. Uh-huh. 3 Q. Where it says 4 "additionally". Your Honor, are you 5 with us? You need to tighten that up, 6 Jim. 7 Now, first of all, are you 8 familiar with this document, Mr. 9 Woodyard? 10 A. Yes, I have seen it before. 11 Q. It says that when EPA was 12 developing this spill policy they assumed 13 550 square feet of indoor surfaces in 14 regard to a typical spill, didn't they? 15 A Yes, that's correct. 16 Q. There's more than 550 square 17 feet in the T&S Building, isn't there? 18 A. Certainly. 19 Q. How many would you estimate 20 was in the T&S Building square foot wise? 21 A. I believe it's on the order 22 of 750,000. 23 Q. Square feet? 24 A. Floor space, that's correct. 172 1 THE COURT: They are three 2 columns very closely printed, and 3 I don't find exactly where you are 4 reading from. 5 MR. MCCLAIN: The first 6 column beginning with 7 "additionally". 8 THE COURT: Fine. You 9 should preface each citation to 10 the document as to the column or 11 the paragraph so that we can find 12 it. 13 MR. MCCLAIN: I apologize. 14 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 15 Q. And that is your 16 understanding of this spill policy as 17 well, isn't it? Those were the 18 assumptions and that's what it says? 19 A. That's what the intended use 20 of the spill policy as a whole was for; 21 that's correct. 22 Q. Okay. Now, look over at 23 Page 10704 in the last column beginning 24 with the words "in addition". Are you 171 1 Q. It's over what? 100 times 2 the amount assumed by this policy? 3 A. Yes. It's much larger than 4 was intended by the spill policy. 5 Q. It says, "Additionally, spill 6 situations involving significantly larger 7 areas of contamination than those assumed 8 in developing this policy, e.g. less than 9 .5 acres in soil and 550 feet on indoor 10 surfaces, spills in areas involving 11 repeated daily contact such that the 12 potential for dermal contact may be 13 significantly higher than assumed was 14 developed this possible, e.g. spills 15 resulting from violent equipment rupture 16 during PCDF and/or PCDDs were formed and 17 spills onto farmlands on which root crops 18 are grown may require more stringent 19 levels of clean up." Correct? 20 A. Yes, that's correct. 21 THE COURT: You are reading 22 from 10702. 23 MR. MCCLAIN: Yes, your 24 Honor. . 1 with us, your Honor? 173 2 THE COURT: Uh-huh. 3 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 4 Q. It's on the screen, if 5 that's helpful. Okay. It says here, in 6 addition, the TSCA policy discusses other 7 spill situations which may warrant the 8 use of EPA authority to require more 9 stringent requirements, e.g. where depth 10 of ground water and type of soil and the 11 presence of chemicals may pose 12 exceptionally high potential for ground 13 water contamination by residual PCB spill 14 situations involving significant larger 15 areas of contamination than those assumed 16 in developing this policy, spills 17 resulting from the violent equipment 18 rupture during which PCDFs and PCDDs were 19 formed and spills onto farmland on which 20 root crops are grown. The TSCA policy 21 provides that in each situation the 22 regional administrator may require clean 23 up in addition to that required by the 24 TSCA policy." True? .1 ,) ( LJ ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60725 1 A. That's correct. 174 176 1 standards for areas that are in excess by J- 2 Q. And that is something that 2 what's covered in the spill policy. 3 EPA can do; am I right? 3 Q. We are going to come back to 4 A. Well, yes, but elsewhere in 4 that 5 here, which you haven't dted, EPA makes 5 A. The rule invites both, but 6 it very clear that they are perfectly 6 the more stringent clean up standards in 7 willing to accept less stringent 7 there relate to what weVe been calling 8 standards for a variety of different 8 high occupancy type applications. 9 reasons. In fact, back toward the front 9 Q. Now, let's look at some 10 in the areas they highlight is their 10 other things from your book Woodyard 11 request. This policy, just so that you 11 and King, PCB Management Handbook at Page 12 understand, is designed -- it was 12 67, your Honor. 13 conceived back in the mid 80s back when 13 THE COURT: What page is 14 utilities had a lot of little spills and 14 that? 15 there were no cleanup standards at all 15 MR. MCCLAIN: 67. 16 and they didn't want to deal with EPA, do 16 THE COURT: From the 17 a risk assessment and all that stuff 17 handbook? 18 every time they had a spill. So what 18 MR. MCCLAIN: Yes. ! 19 they elected to do with EPA and utilities 19 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, I 20 together is come up with a policy, and 20 would ask that this entire page be 21 that's what this is called. It's not a 21 shown to the jury for context 22 regulation. It's basically a standard 22 purposes right here where you just 23 procedure you use to clean up a routine 23 put it up on the TV screen. 24 spill. 24 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, I 175 177 1 Q. And we've already 1 don't object to Mr. Goutman 2 established ~ 2 reading anything additional after 3 A. You have established the 3 I'm done, but I have a right to 4 boundaries for the conditions under which 4 ask questions. If he wants to 5 it automatically applies. Clearly EPA 5 read more for context - 6 over the years has accepted the same 6 THE COURT: Is this the book 7 cleanup standards for larger spills on a 7 you are talking about? 8 very regular basis and even relaxed, as I 8 MR. MCCLAIN: Right. 9 just pointed out, because they're 9 THE COURT: I don't have a 10 inviting people to use risk assessments 10 Page 67. 11 and use extenuating circumstances to 11 MR. MCCLAIN: Last page. 12 argue for more lenient standards. 12 THE COURT: Yes, I do. I'm 13 Q. Mr. Woodyard, you talked 13 used to seeing pages sequentially, 14 about all of that in your direct. I'm 14 and when I had less than the 15 talking about this document right now. 15 number of pages I didn't think we 16 It's true, isn't it, that the EPA 16 were up to 67. 17 regional administrator may require 17 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 18 additional clean up, particularly in 18 I'm not suggesting that anything 19 areas where the surface area is larger 19 be read. I just think the page 20 than 550 square feet. That's what the 20 should be shown to the jury as it 21 policy says; am I right? 21 exists. Tliey have excerpts. 22 A. Certainly. But as I said, 22 MR. MCCLAIN: I said I don't f 23 the policy also says the regional 23 object. 24 administrator may accept less stringent 24 MR. GOUTMAN: Thank you. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60726 178 1 MR. MCCLAIN: You want 2 anything else, Mr. Goutman? 3 MR. GOUTMAN: Cup of coffee 4 would be great. 5 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 6 that's where I draw the line. 7 THE COURT: I thought it was 8 at cream and sugar. 9 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 10 you are right. 11 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 12 Q. At Page 67 in your handbook 13 you state, do you not,"PCBs can migrate 14 through simple ventilation. Although the 15 related vapor pressure is low, so are the 16 clean up guidelines." 17 MR. GOUTMAN: Excuse me. 18 Your Honor, I would ask that the 19 picture remain up. It just was 20 taken off the entire page. 21 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, I 22 was very gracious. If Mr. Goutman 23 wants to show anything during his 24 exam, he can. But this is 180 1 MR. GOUTMAN: Thank you, 2 your Honor. 3 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 4 Q. Can everyone read it over 5 here? "PCBs can also migrate through 6 simple ventilation. Although the related 7 vapor pressure is low, so are the clean 8 up guidelines. The most commonly used 9 criteria for airborne contamination is .1 10 grams to M third, the current NIOSH 11 recommendation; am I right? 12 A. The standard is actually 1.0 13 micrograms per cubic meter, which is the 14 number we've thrown around before in the 15 testimony. 16 Q. Right. And that's what you 17 say in your book. 18 A. Yes. It was taken out of 19 context. It's an odd stand alone 20 statement. 21 Q. Is this statement there or 22 not? 23 A. Yes, it is. The section 24 it's in, by the way, since you didn't see 179 181 1 interrupting me at this point. 1 the page long enough probably -- 2 MR. GOUTMAN: I am not just 2 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor - 3 interrupting. I believe it is 3 THE COURT: No, because -- 4 important for the jury to see the 4 MR. GOUTMAN: It was taken 5 entire page in the context. He 5 out of context. 6 has removed a portion of that 6 THE COURT: If the 7 page. The jury should see the 7 identification of the subject 8 entire page. 8 matter is misleading, the witness 9 MR. MCCLAIN: We know that. 9 has the right to put it in proper 10 I will stipulate to that. That's 10 context. So that we can't pull 11 why we have blown it up. So they 11 out a sentence from thin air and 12 can read it. 12 ask the witness about it just 13 MR. GOUTMAN: I think the 13 because it's in the book if it's 14 jury should see the entire page. 14 out of context. 15 It was on the TV screen. 15 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 16 THE COURT: At this point we 16 Q. Mr. Woodyard -- 17 will permit Mr. McClain to proceed 17 THE COURT: So to that 18 with his cross, and, of course. 18 extent Mr. Woodyard has the right 19 reserving the right to supplement 19 to explain the context in which 20 it. 20 the document is referring. 21 MR. MCCLAIN: Thank you, 21 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, I 22 your Honor. 22 invite Mr. Woodyard to read 23 THE COURT: With any cross 23 whatever he like from that page. 24 examination that's appropriate. 24 MR. GOUTMAN: I would like 1 i # A ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60727 182 184 1 the witness to explain his answer. 1 through simple ventilation? That's a 2 THE COURT: The Court did 2 true statement, isn't it? 3 not limit Mr. Woodyard to the 3 A. Like I just said, PCBs will 4 page. The Court stated that he 4 move with air currents, and if you are i 5 could identify the page to the 5 cleaning up a spill, particularly in a 6 context under which it is 6 dust, which is what we're always talking 7 associated. Otherwise, it is 7 about here, if you don't isolate with 8 misleading. 8 plastic or something like that the areas 9 MR. MCCLAIN: Well, your 9 that are clean from the areas that are 10 Honor, I would hope that you would 10 dirty, it will move with the dust. 11 reserve whether it's misleading 11 Q. And it's true, isn't it, 12 until he says whatever it is he is 12 that although the vapor pressure is low, 13 going to say. I don't want to be 13 so are the clean up guidelines, that's 14 misleading. I understand the 14 true, isn't it? 15 Court's ruling. 15 A. Well, I think that really 16 THE WITNESS: Well, so we 16 points out the whole issue we talked 17 all understand, this as a stand 17 about. We talked about terms like 18 alone statement is very 18 micrograms and milligrams for so long you 19 misleading. The section that is 19 forget how small those levels really, 20 in the book is the section about 20 really are. And when you are worried 21 cleaning up spills, and 21 about isolating one room from another you 22 specifically the section about 22 have to be extremely careful. It's 23 gross clean up. If you remember 23 almost like hospital conditions where you 24 when we talked the other day we 24 are separating clean rooms from areas 183 1 were talking about the different 2 steps you go through to clean up a 3 spill. One of the areas is what I 4 called containment, I believe, in 5 my testimony. That's when you 6 seal up doors and so forth so 7 people aren't trapped in the 8 contamination back and forth so 9 that you don't have dust moving 10 into clean areas. In that 11 context, which is what I'm talking 12 about in that statement, we are 13 talking about being concerned 14 about dust moving back and forth 15 between rooms, especially when you 16 are doing the clean up. It has 17 nothing to do with ventilation and 18 the concept we are talking about 19 related to ductwork and 20 off-gassing and things we have 21 been dismissing all along here. 22 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 23 Q. Mr. Woodyard, it's true, 24 isn't it, that PCBs can also migrate 185 1 where you are doing work. 2 Q. It's true that the most 3 commonly used clean up criteria for 4 airborne contamination is the one NIOSH 5 recommendation. 6 A. Well, the only standard is 7 really the OSHA standard, but people had 8 used on cleanups the NIOSH airborne 9 guideline. And I understand that when we 10 talked about NIOSH, don't get confused, 11 we are talking here about the airborne 12 measured levels; not this one microgram 13 per hundred square centimeter surface 14 letter that the state elected on their 15 own to use for the clean up. Very, very 16 different. 17 Q. Now, you have mentioned -- 18 you have written some other papers as 19 well, haven't you? 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. You wrote one paper on the 22 decontaminating concrete containing PCBs; 23 am I right? 24 A. Yes, sir. iI ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60728 186 1 Q. In fact, it's called State 2 of the Art Technology for the 3 Decontamination of Concrete. Your Honor, 4 do you still have your copy of that paper 5 up on the bench? 6 THE COURT: Decontamination 7 of concrete, yes. 8 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 9 Q. In this document you have a 10 table one; am I right? 11 A. Yes, sir. 12 Q. And just to show the jury 13 everything on table one, because it goes 14 on for two pages, Mr. Ziegler, could you 15 put that up? Three pages, actually. 16 MR. GOUTMAN: Excuse me. 17 your Honor, what I had asked for 18 is that the jury be permitted to 19 see -- and I thought there was an 20 agreement -- be permitted to see 21 the entire first page. The blow 22 up only blows up the bottom half 23 of the first page. 24 MR. MCCLAIN: That's what 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 188 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, this is disruptive of my cross examination. MR. GOUTMAN: Well, your Honor, I think we have reached an agreement, and I don't know -- they're showing this document in a way the jury can't even see it. I don't know that reflects our agreement. MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, this is -- maybe we need to come to side bar. THE COURT: To put the whole document on the screen, it would not be practical for anybody to read it. MR. MCCLAIN: That's right. THE COURT: And what we could do is start at the top and swing back and forth so that we get line by line. MR. GOUTMAN: That's fine. MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, I 187 18 9 1 we're showing them. 1 didn't want -- that's not part of 2 MR. GOUTMAN: You are 2 my exam. If the Court directs me 3 showing it in a way that I think 3 to do that I'm happy to do it. 4 the person with the best eyesight 4 But this breaks everything up when 5 in the world can't read a word of 5 I want to go through a specific 6 it. 6 line in this document. It would 7 MR. MCCLAIN: That's why we 7 be more proper for redirect 8 blew it up, your Honor. But I 8 examination. 9 agreed to show the entire page. 9 THE COURT: You may proceed. 10 THE COURT: And we're 10 MR. MCCLAIN: Thank you, 11 reading from table one. 11 your Honor. 12 MR. MCCLAIN: Right. We 12 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 13 already ruled on this and I said I 13 Q. I want to take your 14 would show the whole first page so 14 attention to table one. This is from the 15 they could see there were more 15 first page of the document. In this 16 things on it. If Mr. Goutman 16 document you say some commonly cited 17 wants to direct them to anything 17 standards for PCB decontamination; am I 18 he can do that on redirect. 18 right? 19 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, I 19 A. Yes. This paper was written 20 would like the jury to see the 20 around 1985, probably a couple years 21 page in a way that they can read 21 before EPA had their spill policy. There 22 it, and right now we are focusing 22 were no standards, and what this table 23 on the center of it. I'd like the 23 does, which if you could read the whole 24 left-hand column to be shown. 24 thing, is list a whole bunch of different 1 1 i t ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60729 190 192 1 standards that people had used on 1 standard. 2 different projects and a little bit of 2 Q. That was being recommended 3 background of where they came from and 3 by NIOSH back in 1983 for interior 4 why it had been used on that particular 4 surfaces; am I right? 5 project. This table one excerpt on the 5 A. But it was related like all 6 blow up is a small section of that that 6 of NIOSH'S work related to these PCB 7 refers to two particular standards. 7 fires. That's what we discussed before 8 Q. When did you last review 8 where the standard really isn't PCB. The 9 this, Mr. Woodyard? 9 standard is these dioxins that were 10 A. It's been a long time. 10 formed and the PCBs are just the 11 Q. Going back to -- you just 11 measuring device. 12 recall that about that table out of this 12 Q. Tell the jury where you say 13 one article you wrote? 13 that in this document. Tell the jury k 14 A. This article is easily the 14 where in this document you say some 15 most commonly requested article I get. 15 commonly cited standards for PCB 16 Q. It's still used? 16 decontamination you say anything about 17 A. Absolutely. 17 PCB fires. 18 Q. So you said that you were 18 A. This document is all about I 19 talking about the NIOSH recommendation in 19 cleaning up concrete, and people are 20 your book PCB management was an air 20 interested when they read documents like 21 standard, but back in this article you 21 this in what the standards are that are 22 were talking about a surface standard, 22 out there, particularly when there were 23 were you not? 23 no standards, and they were looking for 24 A. Yes, yes, I believe that's 24 different examples to cite. 191 193 1 correct. 1 Q. The document doesn't say 2 Q. And you referred people to 2 anything about PCB fires, does it? 3 some commonly cited standards for PCB 3 A. It doesn't have to. The 4 contamination; isn't that true? 4 second example you have on that list 5 A. Yes. Actually, they're 5 right there, if I can read it. It says 6 examples of different clean up standards 6 One Market Plaza, which is one of the 7 used on different projects. 7 more widely known PCB transformer fires 8 Q. One of those that you listed 8 in the country back in the early'80s. 9 was a recommendation by NIOSH as of 1983 9 Q. Does the NIOSH reference say 10 .5 micrograms per 100 cubic centimeters; 10 anything about PCB fires, sir? 11 am I right? 11 A. Not on the table. I don't 12 A. That's ~ that standard was 12 know what the reference itself says that 13 listed in the table because, if I recall 13 that came from. 14 correctly, I think it was the Santa Fe, 14 Q. Look at it. Look at your 15 New Mexico PCB incident that had used the 15 paper. Does it make any reference to # 16 .5 background level. 16 that standard being a PCB fire? 17 Q. It says .5 micrograms per 17 A. I'm sorry. I'm talking 18 100 cubic centimeters, NIOSH, presumably 18 about the citation, the source 19 interior surfaces based on upper 19 information that was used to put that 20 background limits in nonmanufacturing 20 number on the table. I can't recall 21 facilities; am I right? 21 where that came from. 22 A. That's what it says. Again, 22 Q. But anybody reading your 23 it's based on a particular project, I 23 paper from the world some commonly cited 24 think, where we found this unusually low 24 standard for PCB decontamination. It ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060730 194 1 says that the standard is .5 per 2 microgram per hundred square centimeters 3 from NIOSH, presumably interior surfaces 4 based on upper background limits and 5 nonmanufacturing facilities; am I right? 6 That's what you tell the world? 7 A. What I'm telling the world 8 ~ in all fairness, what I'm telling the 9 world is here are the standards people 10 have used on some different projects. 11 There is a whole range of standards all 12 the way up to 100 micrograms. An 13 informed clean up expert is going to use 14 the standard that applies best to their 15 situation. They are not going to pick 16 the low standard. 17 Q. You say this relates to the 18 Santa Fe situation? 19 A. That's my guess; although, 20 the schedule on there says '83. 21 Q. You know Mr. Kominsky has 22 been here, worked on that. Was there any 23 fire at the Santa Fe transportation 24 building? 196 1 NIOSH for the moment. You are aware, are 2 you not, that NIOSH wrote a report. In 3 fact, you mentioned it to the jury, 4 didn't you, on the T&S Building. They 5 wrote a report to Mr. Jannetta at DGS. 6 You are familiar with that? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Let me hand it to you 9 Exhibit 996. Your Honor, you have a 10 number of these, but I will hand it up 11 for the Court. 12 MS. MEYERS: Can I have one, 13 Mr. McClain? 14 MR. MCCLAIN: Sure. Your 15 Honor, the jury needs a stretch. 16 Do we need a break? 17 THE COURT: Well take a 18 short recess. 19 THE COURT CRIER: This court 20 now stands in recess for the call 21 of the crier. 22 (Recess is taken at this 23 time.) 24 THE COURT CRIER: Court is 195 1 A. It was a transformer 2 explosion or rupture. 3 Q. Was there any fire? There 4 was no fire at Santa Fe, was there? 5 A. Going back to the jargon we 6 have been using, the whole idea of 7 transformer fires is equipment failures 8 that result in releases of PCB. Santa Fe 9 was unique because it spewed out liquids 10 and vapors up through the building at 11 extremely high concentrations, thousands 12 of pounds perhaps, and resulted in a very 13 different kind of contamination. 14 Q. Was there any fire? 15 A. No, except there was arcing 16 inside the transformer, which is a fire. 17 But it has absolutely no relevance to the 18 T&S Building. It's exactly the example 19 we are trying to illustrate to 20 everybody. These are like night and day, 21 apples and oranges. 22 Q. I want to go to another 23 subject that you discussed with Mr. 24 Goutman. First of all, let's stay with 197 1 now in session. Sir, you are 2 still under oath. 3 MR. MCCLAIN: May I resume, 4 your Honor? 5 THE COURT: You may proceed. 6 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 7 Q. Now, Mr. Woodyard, what 8 we're -- when we broke we had handed out 9 a letter, which -- I don't know whether I 10 gave Mr. Ziegler a copy. Did I? When we 11 broke we were looking at a letter written 12 by Allen Echt at NIOSH to Secretary 13 Jannetta. We've already seen this in 14 evidence. It's Exhibit Pen 996. Back 15 that up, if you would, so they could see 16 the first page. And you reviewed this in 17 preparation for your testimony, did you 18 not? 19 A. Yes, sir, I did. 20 Q. It's to Mr. Jannetta, the 21 Secretary of the Department of General 22 Services, and it's signed. If you could 23 point up at the top, Mr. Ziegler, where 24 it says "NIOSH" over in the right-hand i 1 J 1 i ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 4 TOWOLDMONOQ60731 1 i 198 200 1 comer, please, the heading. National 1 the first page of this document. 2 Institute of Occupational Safety and 2 THE COURT: I see that. 3 Health, Cincinnati, Ohio, and go to the 3 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 4 last page, signed by Allen Echt, MPH, 5 that's Master of Public Health; am I 4 Q. Did I read that accurately? 5 Did I read that accurately? 6 right? That's what those designations 6 A Yes, so far. 7 mean. 8 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. And there's no mention in 8 this at all about any transformer fire; 9 Q. And CIH, a Certified 9 ami right? 10 Industrial Hygienist, am I right? 10 A That's correct. It's just 11 A. That is correct. 11 structural fire. 12 Q. You are neither one of those 12 Q. And structural fire is 13 things, are you? 13 different from a transformer fire, am I 14 A. No, I'm not. 14 right? 15 Q. Now, it's signed by Mr. 15 A I'm not familiar with the 16 Echt, Master of Public Health, and a 16 term structural fire except burning down 17 Certified Industrial Hygienist. You are 17 a building. 18 neither Master of Public Health or a 18 Q. So there's no indication in 19 Certified Industrial Hygienist, are you? 19 this document that NIOSH thought we were 20 A. That's correct. 20 dealing with a transformer fire; am I 21 Q. And he is a direct employee 21 right? 22 of NIOSH and you've never worked for 22 A That's correct in the sense 23 NIOSH, have you? 23 that a transformer didn't bum, but the 24 A No, I have not. Ihave 24 terminology we've been using all along 199 1 worked with them but not for them. 2 Q. Now looking over at the 3 first page again, Mr. Ziegler, this is 4 August 21 of 1995. That's when this 5 letter is dated, and this is a report 6 about the T&S of PCB contamination and 7 provides some recommendations, does it 8 not, from NIOSH? 9 A. Yes, in general, that's 10 correct. 11 Q. You talked to us earlier 12 that NIOSH, when requested, is required 13 to write such a report; am I right? 14 A. They do. I assume they're 15 required by somebody to respond. 16 Q. Yes. So in this letter that 17 NIOSH responded to Mr. Jannetta by, there 18 is some background. Would you bring that 19 up for us, if you would, Mr. Ziegler. 20 Back that up a little bit. Focus it. On 21 June 16th, 1994, a structural fire began 22 on the sixth floor. The fourth, fifth 23 and seventh floors were also damaged in 24 the fire. Your Honor, I'm reading from 201 1 for transformer fires is the destruction 2 of PCB that involves creation of dioxin 3 and dioxin like contents, which is, in 4 fact, what he addressed in his report. 5 Q. Well talk about that in 6 just a minute. It's tme, isn't it, that 7 he doesn't discuss any transformer fire 8 in this report, and none occurred? 9 A. In the sense that we've been 10 talking about transformer fires he 11 certainly did. 12 Q. Read for the jury then any 13 part where he says something about a 14 transformer fire. Just go ahead and read 15 that to the jury. 16 A No. He doesn't use the term 17 transformer fire. That's why we've been 18 explaining what that really means. 19 That's a term of art to those of us who 20 do this for a living. 21 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 22 can we have that last part of the 23 answer stricken? 24 THE COURT: You may give an j ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60732 202 1 answer yes or no and then explain. 2 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, 3 your Honor, I thought I was. 4 THE COURT: What you omitted 5 was the yes or no part. 6 THE WITNESS: I will work on 7 that. Thank you. 8 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 9 Q. Let's do this by the book. 10 He does not say anything in this letter 11 about a transformer fire, does he? 12 A. I don't recall him using the 13 term transformer fire in the letter. I 14 can't recall if he used it as one of the 15 footnotes or citations when he talked 16 about the dioxin issue, which I just 17 alluded to. 18 Q. Let's go over to PCB on 19 surfaces, if we, can Page 3, your Honor. 20 It's titled PCBs on Surfaces; am I 21 correct? 22 A. PCBs on Surfaces, yes. 23 Q. And it says -- if you can 24 move that and center it, Jim. "NIOSH 204 1 of surface contamination in the range of 2 50 to 100 microns per square meter." Am 3 I right? Did I read that accurately? 4 A, Yes. You said micron. I 5 think it's micrograms. 50 to 100 6 micrograms in several office buildings. 7 Not in Harrisburg, of course, but 8 somewhere in Santa Fe and elsewhere. 9 Q. If we convert that into 100 10 square centimeter calculation, that's .5 11 to one microgram per 100 square 12 centimeters. Do I have that conversion 13 correct? 14 A. Yeah. You got the city 15 wrong, but the conversion is correct. 16 Q. What do you mean I have the 17 city wrong? I didn't say anything about 18 the city; you did. 19 A. No, not at all. Let's get 20 back to the citation. It referred to -- 21 what page are we on again? 22 Q. It says,"Results of several 23 investigations of PCB surface 24 contamination in office buildings 203 1 recommends that occupational exposure to 2 carcinogens be reduced to the lowest 3 feasible level." Do you see that? 4 A. Yes, sir. 5 Q. It says NIOSH recommends 6 that. 7 A. Yes. Which is well below 8 the safe level we've been discussing that 9 EPA has proposed on a risk assessment 10 basis. 11 Q. It's below the level in the 12 spill policy, right, that's what you are 13 talking about, the spill policy? 14 A. The level that was 15 originally cited in the spill policy and 16 is now widely used on everything. 17 Q. Spill policy, that's the 18 level we are talking about. 19 A. We can call it the spill 20 policy level, sure. 21 Q. Sure. It goes on,"Results 22 of several investigators of PCB surface 23 contamination in office buildings 24 indicate that there is a background level 205 1 indicate that there is a quote-unquote 2 background level of surface contamination 3 in the range of 50 to 100 micrograms per 4 square meter." Did I read that 5 accurately or not? 6 A. Yes. And my point was the 7 results of several investigations of PCB 8 surface concentration or contamination in 9 office buildings, those buildings were in 10 Boston, they were in Santa Fe, New 11 Mexico. There is no relationship to the 12 situation in Harrisburg. 13 Q. Why does Mr. Echt put it in 14 his letter if there is no relationship? 15 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection. 16 This witness can't read Mr. Echt's 17 mind. 18 THE COURT: Sustained. 19 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 20 Q. Does Mr. Echt say this 21 doesn't apply to your buildings? 22 A. No. What Mr. Echt is doing 23 in this letter is giving the state a 24 collection of background information that i | # * ) J 4 i ! ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 4 TOWOLDMONOQ60733 206 208 1 they can use to better understand the 1 Q. And that converts again to 2 situation that they're in. 2 the one microgram standard per 100 square 3 Q. He never says in this 3 centimeter standard that we were -- that 4 letter, does he, this doesn't apply to 4 we have been talking about is the NIOSH f 5 your building, does he? 5 standard; am I right? 6 A. He never says it does. 6 A. No, it's not a standard. 7 Q. Okay. He never says it 7 It's a recommendation or a guideline 8 does. Now will you agree with me that he 8 based on basically no PCBs above 9 never says that it does not? 9 background. It's not health risk based 10 A. No. There has been--there 10 at all. 11 is only probably two, three studies of 11 Q. It's the NIOSH level we have 12 background PCB levels and he cited them 12 been talking about for surface. 13 in this range. He is trying to help 13 A, The NIOSH guideline, yes. 14 out. He is trying to help out. 14 Q. And he says here that -- he 15 Q. And he cites these 15 talks about risk assessment down here, 16 quote-unquote background levels to try 16 doesn't he? 17 and help out; am I right? 17 MR. GOUTMAN: Excuse me, 18 A. Yes. He is trying to get 18 your Honor, if I can ask the next 19 them acquainted with the whole issue of 19 sentence be read for the rule of 20 background, which is important. 20 completeness. The last sentence 21 Q. My question in regard to 21 of that paragraph. 22 this conversion is to use the same 22 MR. MCCLAIN: Sure. It 23 measurements we've been talking about, he 23 reads,"It must be emphasized that 24 says it's .5 to one microgram per 100 24 this recommendation does not 207 209 1 cubic -- square centimeters, do I have 1 represent NIOSH policy, paren, 2 that right? 2 although, it is a logical 3 A. Close enough. The two goes 3 extension of the NIOSH carcinogen 4 after the M, the other M. 4 policy. It is merely a guideline 5 Q. ThisM. Okay. 5 used by NIOSH investigators in the 6 A. And the other M is a U. 6 conduct of health hazard 7 Q. Whatever. 7 evaluations. And that's true, 8 A. I think we all understand. 8 isn't it, Mr. Woodyard. 9 Q. It's the one standard we 9 THE WITNESS: Yes. It's 10 have been talking about. 10 just a starting point and should 11 A. This is beyond spelling. 11 be backed up by risk assessment 12 Q. Okay. Now, so then he goes 12 work or use of other risk based 13 on he say,"Therefore, for surfaces in 13 standards. 14 occupational environments that may be 14 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 15 routinely contacted by the unprotected 15 Q. We are talking about what he 16 skin, NIOSH investigators have 16 said here now. He says that it's used by r~j 17 recommended that PCB contamination not 17 NIOSH investigators in the conduct of i 18 exceed 100 micrograms per square meter; 18 health hazard evaluations, doesn't he? 19 am I right? 19 A. That's correct. 20 A. Yes, that's correct. 20 Q. Then he does talk about risk 21 Q. The lowest feasible level 21 assessments here in the next paragraph 22 considering background contamination; am 22 and he says in his letter,"The risk posed 23 I right? I 24 A. Yes. 23 by this level of contamination was 24 assessed by the U.S. Environmental ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60734 210 1 Protection Agency in its PCB spill clean 2 up policy, and that was the document we 3 just looked at; am 1 right? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And he doesn't call it the 6 EPA safe level, does he? He calls it the 7 EPA spill clean up policy, doesn't he? 8 A. He is not talking about the 9 standards when he says that. He is 10 talking about the policy in its broadest 11 sense. like I said before, talking about 12 little spills, regular cleanups every day 13 of relatively routine events. 14 Q. He refers to it as the EPA 15 PCB spill clean up policy, doesn't he? 16 A. Yes. And I think I made a 17 very clear distinction between a clean up 18 number and that policy, which is that 19 document you were showing us before, 20 which is much broader than just the 21 numbers. 22 Q. Go to the document if you 23 want. Cite me any place in the document 24 that says safe limit. It doesn't say 212 1 stated in terms of workers with 30 year 2 work history; am I right? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. They say that at one -- at 5 the one microgram standard the EPA under 6 the NIOSH guideline, to use your phrase, 7 that EPA predicts excess testing between 8 one in 100,000 and one in one million 9 using EPA's risk assessment, am I right? 10 At the one microgram level. That's what 11 he is saying. 12 A. Yes, that's what the ten to 13 the fifth and ten to the sixth refer to, 14 that's correct. 15 Q. Now, I want to take you over 16 to17 MR. GOUTMAN: Well, your 18 Honor, once again, the next 19 sentence states what the NIOSH and 20 what the EPA policy is. I ask 21 that that be read. 22 MR. MCCLAIN: Sure. How 23 much of it would you like me to 24 read? The whole paragraph. 211 1 that, does it? 2 A. The term "safe" is 3 throughout the document. In terms of 4 safe limit as the definition? No, they 5 prefer to call it the clean up standard 6 or clean up criteria. 7 Q. And none of them include the 8 EPA safe standard, am I right? None of 9 the phrases they use say that. 10 A. No. I don't believe that's 11 typically EPA terms for it. 12 Q. Then it goes on in the 13 development section of the policy, 14 paren,"Risks posed by leaks and spills of 15 PCBs. The EPA states that the estimated 16 level of oncogenic, paren, cancer causing 17 risk associated with dermal exposure of 18 50 grams per square meter of PCBs on hard 19 indoor high contact surfaces is between 20 one times ten to the fifth and one times 21 ten to the negative sixth." Am I right? 22 A. Yes, yes. 23 Q. Between one and 100,000 and 24 one in a million excess testing usually 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 213 MR. GOUTMAN: Although the EPA guideline. MR. MCCLAIN: Just tell me what you want me to read. MR. GOUTMAN: That sentence. MR. MCCLAIN: I understand what the sentence is. I was asking you for some limit. If you want me to read the whole paragraph I will be happy to read it all. MR. NEAL: I think it's Mr. Goutman's serve. MR. GOUTMAN: I asked you to read that sentence. I don't know how I could be clearer. MR. MCCLAIN: "Although the EPA document did not provide a risk assessment for the cleanup criteria, it's believed for high contact indoor surfaces 1,000 grams per square meter. It did 1 state that EPA also believes that the surface standards of 10,000 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60735 ! 214 216 1 grams per square meter for indoor 1 we're on Page 8. These results 2 low contact surfaces and bulks and 2 indicate that PCBs exceeded or 3 high contact surfaces in a 3 exceed the guideline used by NIOSH 4 restricted access industrial 4 investigators of 100 micrograms 5 facility would not present 5 per square meter for surfaces that 6 significant risk to workers or the 6 may be routinely contacted by the 7 general population." Is that the 7 unprotected skin on all 14 8 sentence you wanted? 8 floors. That's what he said. 9 MR. GOUTMAN: I think you 9 MR. GOUTMAN: Can we have 10 misread it, but that's okay. 10 the next sentence? 11 MR. MCCLAIN: What did I 11 MR. MCCLAIN: Yes, you can. 12 misread? 12 THE COURT: Let him finish. ! 13 MR. GOUTMAN: You keep on 13 THE WITNESS: But his 14 mixing up what a gram is and 14 statement was incorrect and he 15 microgram and so forth. 15 goes on to explain why it was 16 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 16 qualified. 17 Q. I'm confident about that. I 17 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 18 read that correctly, Mr. Woodyard, or 18 Q. Well, first of all, did he 19 close? 19 say it? 20 A. Close enough. I think the 20 A. You read it correctly. 21 point has been made, and it's an 21 Q. Now, the next sentence is 22 important one. The EPA has, regardless 22 what Mr. Goutman would like me to read. 23 of whatever the risk level is that they 23 It says,"However, the SLPCBW data set 24 explain has recommended these standards, 24 includes surfaces such as floors, 215 217 1 which are the standards we have been 1 ceilings, air filters, floor troughs and 2 talking about all along as the safe 2 computer subfloors; am I right? 3 level. 3 A. That's what the next 4 Q. You referred to them that 4 sentence says. As I pointed out, the 5 way and EPA didn't? 5 data was mixed up so it was impossible 6 A. Yes. I think it's a lot 6 for Mr. Echt to decide whether the 7 easier to understand that way. 7 standards applied to the right locations 8 Q. Now, let's go over to --1 8 or not. 9 want to go to the- now, Mr. Echt 9 G. Well- 10 reviewed the data taken from the building 10 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 11 in terms of the wipe samples that were 11 could we just have the rest of the 12 taken; am I correct? 12 paragraph read? 13 A. He reviewed the data as it 13 MR. MCCLAIN: Fine. 14 was presented to him; that's correct. 14 THE COURT: Are you asking 15 Q. And look over at Page 8, if 15 for the remaining sentence? 16 you would. 16 MR. GOUTMAN: It just puts 17 A. Yes, sir. 17 in context the one sentence. 1 18 Q. And it says,"Table 8,10 and 18 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, I 19 13 present the results of the analysis of 19 don't object to it. I don't need 20 the PCB wipe samples in the data sets 20 a speaking objection. Hie results 21 SLPCBW and ELSPCB." Correct? I read 21 for furniture and office items 22 that correctly? 22 should be separated from these / 23 A. Yes, that's correct. 23 others for a more detailed 24 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 24 analysis. These results should be ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60736 218 1 compared with the EPA clean up 2 criteria of 100 micrograms per 3 square meter. 4 MR. GOUTMAN: It's 1,000. 5 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 6 Q. 1,000 micrograms per square 7 meter for high contact indoor surfaces 8 and 10,000 micrograms per square meter 9 for indoor low contact surfaces; correct? 10 That's what he said? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. Now, then finally, Mr. Echt 13 says at Page 9,"However, the Pennsylvania 14 Department of General Services in concert 15 with the Health Department and 16 representatives of the employees in the 17 building needs to decide whether the goal 18 of the clean up should be reaching the 19 guidelines used by NIOSH investigators or 20 the clean up criteria established by the 21 EPA." Am I right? 22 A. Yes, that's what it says. 23 Q. And then it says,"Dioxin 24 sampling results indicate that dioxin 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 220 THE COURT: Can the question be answered yes or no that was asked? THE WITNESS: I think I began that way and went on to explain it. MR. MCCLAIN: No, your Honor. Read my question back. THE COURT: Could you read the question back? (The reporter read back from the last record.) MR. MCCLAIN: That was my question, your Honor, and I'd like an answer to it. THE COURT: And what was the answer? (The reporter read back from the last record.) THE COURT: We didn't get a yes or no answer, as I had directed, but the Court will tell you that you may give an answer yes or no, and if an explanation 219 1 clean up should be the focus of the sixth 2 floor." Am I right? 3 A. Yes. Highlighting again 4 that dioxins don't come from PCBs. It's 5 a different issue of clean up. 6 Q. When we come back tomorrow 7 well talk about that subject. So I'm 8 going to leave it to one side except to 9 say you know in this case that the 10 Pennsylvania Department of Health 11 recommended the NIOSH level of clean up 12 for the T&S Building; isn't that true? 13 A. Well, what I know, going 14 back to your sentence, is that none of 15 the people who were involved in making 16 any decisions on this project had any 17 experience with similar work. So putting 18 it back on the state to make a decision 19 without competent help was not helpful, 20 in my view. 21 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, I 22 ask that that comment be stricken 23 and the witness be admonished to 24 answer my questions. 221 1 is required, you may answer it. 2 You may state it. 3 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 4 Q. Mr. Woodyard, the question 5 is you know, do you not, that the 6 Pennsylvania Department of Health 7 recommended the NIOSH level? 8 A. Yes, they did. But as I 9 pointed out, they had no experience, 10 their consultants, contractors had no 11 experience with similar work. So it was 12 inappropriate for them to make that all 13 by themselves without some help. 14 Q. Well, Mr. Woodyard, NIOSH 15 directed the Pennsylvania Department of 16 General Services, the consultant of the 17 Pennsylvania Department of Health, didn't 18 they? 19 A. Yes, they did. And the 20 answer they got back was, well, you can 21 use the NIOSH standard, or you should 22 look at the EPA standard, too, because 23 that's good. That was not a conclusive 24 recommendation. I j \\ 1 j ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES * TOWOLDMONOQ60737 222 224 1 Q. Then the NIOSH -- then the 1 Q. Thank you. Your Honor, I'd 2 Pennsylvania Department of Health 2 like to put it up. 3 recommended that the NIOSH clean up 3 THE COURT: It may be 4 standard be used at the T&S Building, 4 admitted. 5 isn't that true, by the Pennsylvania 5 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 6 Department of Health? That is a true 6 Q. It's dated October 6th, 7 statement, isn't it? 7 1994, top, if you will go down to after y 8 A. That's correct based on lack 8 "consultation". This is written by 9 of experienced input to that decision. 9 Allan S. Noonan MPH. Dr. Noonan is an 10 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 10 M.D. doctor, isn't he? 11 I'd like to hand this up. This is 11 A That's correct. 12 Exhibit 3524. 12 Q. He has a Master in Public ?fi 13 MR. GOUTMAN: Could I see it 13 Health. 14 before it's put up, please? 14 A. Yes, sir. 15 MR. MCCLAIN: Sure. Your 15 Q. You have neither of those 16 Honor, I'd like to put up 3524. 16 degrees? 17 Any objection, Mr. Goutman? 17 A. No, that's correct. 18 MR. GOUTMAN: A foundation 18 Q. And he is the Secretary of 19 has to be laid as to whether this 19 Health or was at the time? 20 witness is familiar with it, 20 A. Yes. 21 whether he relied upon it and so 21 Q. Of the Commonwealth of 22 forth. The same foundation has to 22 Pennsylvania? 23 be made with every expert. 23 A. Yes. 24 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 24 Q. Am I right? 223 1 this is in evidence already, but I 2 will ask the witness. 3 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 4 Q. Mr. Woodyard, are you 5 familiar with the Department of Health's 6 recommendation in this very case? 7 A. Iam not -- I don't recall 8 seeing this document, but I am familiar 9 with the recommendation we just 10 discussed, yes. 11 Q. All the work you've done on 12 this, the $250,000, the horns you spent, 13 you have never been shown this document, 14 never? 15 A. No. My point is I haven't 16 tried to memorize everything I read over 17 these past several years. What I have 18 seen is numerous documents with the 19 recommendation in it. 20 Q. Do you believe or not that 21 you saw this document in the many hours 22 that you spent on this case? 23 A. I believe I saw that 24 document. 225 1 A Yes, that's true. 2 Q. And he states that,"After 3 consultation with NIOSH, we have reviewed 4 available PCB information from a number 5 of sources, paren, NIOSH, OSHA, EPA, and 6 are able to recommend that the 7 Commonwealth follow the same 8 recommendations issued by NIOSH relating 9 to potential exposure levels to workers 10 and the public in the air and on 11 workplace surfaces." Doesn't it? 12 A That's what he says, yes, 13 sir. 14 Q. And he cites the NIOSH 15 recommendation as the third bullet point, 16 doesn't he? 17 A That's correct. 18 Q. He says,"NIOSH recommends 19 that the occupational exposure to PCBs be 20 reduced to the lowest feasible level. 21 Results of several investigations of PCB 22 surface contamination in office buildings 23 indicate that there is a quote-unquote 24 background level of surface contamination ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60738 226 1 in the range of .5 to one microgram per 2 100 square centimeter. Therefore, for 3 surfaces in the occupational environment 4 that may be routinely contacted by 5 unprotected skin, NIOSH investigators 6 have recommended that PCB contamination 7 not exceed one microgram per 100 square 8 centimeter, the lowest feasible level 9 considering background contamination." 10 That's what he wrote. 11 A. Yes, sir. 12 Q. And that was the standard 13 that was adopted at the T&S Building for 14 clean up; am I right? 15 A. Yes. But as far as I can 16 tell from this document he could have 17 done it by flipping a coin. All the 18 documents I reviewed that you cited. 19 there is nothing in there that is related 20 at all to a risk assessment. Any 21 scientific input to that decision at all 22 is as though they simply set all this 23 stuff on the table and picked one. There 24 is no basis. I respect the gentleman's 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 228 leave the courtroom. (The proceedings concluded at approximately 4:15 p.m.) 227 1 degrees and all that, but the fact is 2 they need to exercise them and show that 3 there's some risk and some basis for 4 making that decision. 5 Q. You may think it's flipping 6 the coin, but the reality is that NIOSH 7 issued a report and said consultant to 8 the Department of Health, that's what was 9 done. And then Department of Health 10 recommended that NIOSH's clean up 11 standard be applied; am I right? 12 A. That's what happened, 13 although the basis for that is not clear 14 in any of the evidence. 15 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 16 this will be a good stopping point 17 for the day. 18 THE COURT: I think you're 19 right. 9:30 tomorrow morning. 20 MR. MCCLAIN: Yes. 21 THE COURT CRIER: Court now 22 stands recessed until tomorrow 23 morning at 9:30. All parties 24 remain seated while the jurors 1 CERTIFICATE 229 2 3 4 5 I hereby certify that the 6 witness was duly sworn by me and that the 7 deposition is a true record of the 8 testimony given by the witness. 9 10 11 12 13 Megan McKay, RPR 14 Dated: February 2,2000 15 16 (The foregoing certification of this 17 transcript does not apply to any 18 reproduction of the same by any means, 19 unless under the direct control and/or 20 supervision of the certifying shorthand 21 reporter.) 22 23 24 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES A \ | 4 i 3}i 4 TOWOLDMONOQ60739 230 1 LAWYER'S NOTES 2 PAGE LINE 3 4 5 6 7 8 9__________ 10 11 12 J 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060740 231 A abatement 102:12 103:15 ability 47:5 62:3 138:16 able 49:2 78:19 87:18 140:7 147:11 163:13 225:6 about 11:23 16:3,6,7,10 16:2118:17 19:6,21 21:23 24:5 24:10,12 25:6 26:1,14 27:10,14 28:19 29:3,7 29:21 30:13 31:22 32:2,5 32:20 34:1,5 34:6,21 35:8 35:24 36:3,6 37:4,6,10,20 39:2,21 41:23,24 42:1,10,15 42:18 43:6 43:11,16 44:5,14 45:15 46:1,2 46:11,12 47:15,16,20 49:9 50:6,7 51:19 52:1 55:2,5,8 56:17 57:4 59:23 60:21 61:5,20 63:23 64:7 64:11,20 65:13,14,23 66:7,13,14 67:21,23 68:1,6,19,21 68:23 72:12 72:14,17,19 73:6,23 74:3 74:5,13,14 74:15,19,22 75:3,18,20 76:5,10,12 77:6,8 78:1,2 78:11,18 79:3,4,14 80:14,24 81:2,4 82:17 85:9,19 86:19 89:23 91:17 94:16 95:5,13,23 97:7,8,10,13 98:15 99:4,7 99:9 105:18 106:21107:6 107:15 110:19,22 111:1,13 112:1,2,23 113:14 117:19 120:17 127:6 128:15 129:2 129:3 130:6 130:20 132:24 137:22,24 138:3,5,12 138:14139:7 139:11 140:14,19 141:10,11,21 141:24 142:13 143:4 143:10 146:2 146:10 151:6 152:6 153:10 154:1,6,13 154:23 156:6 156:9 157:12 158:16 160:21 162:24 164:22 165:2 165:7,8,12 166:6,11,16 167:22 168:3 168:9,21 169:8,18,18 175:14,15 177:7 181:12 182:20,22 183:1,12,13 183:14,18 184:7,17,17 184:21 185:10,11 190:12,19,22 192:16,18 193:2,10,18 199:6 200:8 201:5,10,13 202:11,16 203:13,18 204:17 206:23 207:10 208:4 208:12,15 209:15,20 210:8,10,11 214:17 215:2 219:7 above 46:21 46:22 89:22 89:22208:8 above-captio... 1:17 abrupt 121:24 122:19 125:10,12,19 125:24 145:5 absolutely 73:18 106:20 125:5 132:1 163:17 166:1 169:16 190:17 171:5 172:7 153:17,18 1:11 195:17 address 30:9 155:11 amount absorb 47:6 53:1256:6 agree 87:21 120:15 absorber 138:16 148:5 90:21 91:3,6 129:16 46:14 148:9 116:17 153:18 171:2 absorbing addressed 145:16 166:5 amounts 29:8 201:4 168:1 206:8 67:14 absorbs 25:2 addressing agreed 149:3 analogous 27:16 37:4 109:8 187:9 153:24 abstract administrator agreement analysis 115:13 173:22 186:20 188:6 215:19 accept 174:7 175:17,24 188:10 217:24 175:24 admissible agrees 115:14 analytical accepted 97:17 138:24 ahead 132:13 142:22 175:6 139:5 140:3 201:14 and/or 171:16 access 214:4 140:5 144:1 air 154:12 229:19 according admission 181:11184:4 animal 15:12 7:10146:18 116:22 190:20 217:1 16:3 18:6,8 accumulate admitted 225:10 19:6 114:21 43:24 224:4 airborne animals 16:11 119:17 120:1 admonished 180:9 185:4 announce accumulates 219:23 185:8,11 150:10 121:12 admonition Alabama another 20:22 accumulation 135:21 105:4,9 41:24 42:17 120:11121:8 adopted Allan 224:9 55:3 58:6 121:17 226:13 allege 30:19 59:4,8 60:9 accurate ADVANCE alleged 45:19 105:3,8 107:13 1:12 138:22 135:14 151:5 accurately advised 12:24 allegedly 30:3 156:7 184:21 161:13 200:4 advising 30:14 195:22 200:5 204:3 136:3 Allen 197:12 answer 25:21 205:5 aerospace 198:4 115:2 166:23 acknowledge 1:10 2:19 allow 43:18 167:1,9 145:15,21 afield 63:18 54:5 100:18 168:11182:1 acknowledged after 61:22 allowed 31:21 201:23 202:1 15:6 62:13 63:24 33:22 35:5 219:24 acknowledges 94:5 111:7 35:10,18 220:15,17,21 15:4 135:4,5 39:7,18,20 220:23 221:1 acquainted 143:24 53:14 72:13 221:20 206:19 148:13 177:2 72:23,23 answered acres 171:9 207:4 224:7 87:17 96:1 27:2 220:2 act 92:12 225:2 137:9 answering 94:14 108:21 again 9:11,13 allowing 69:17 109:22 110:1 15:20 19:8 44:22 46:24 anybody 110:11113:9 21:18 38:12 alluded 130:5 188:16 action 29:7 41:22 59:1 202:17 193:22 36:15 163:9 65:4 69:16 almost 184:23 anyone's actions 36:18 75:5 79:23 alone 102:16 115:20 141:7 93:21111:24 180:19 anyplace actual 129:9 127:23 139:6 182:18 61:19 62:1 129:11 141:12 along 14:5 anything actually 30:7 147:19 82:8 108:18 13:15 18:14 50:9 70:19 161:16 183:21 19:5 28:23 70:19 97:18 191:22 199:3 200:24 215:2 35:7 44:8 102:8 104:5 204:21 208:1 already 94:15 66:11 68:19 105:6 137:3 212:18 219:3 95:23 98:24 72:5 81:8 180:12 against 13:5 117:6 155:13 87:9 118:24 186:15 191:5 62:22 116:22 155:20 175:1 132:9,13 add 71:22 131:10 187:13 141:24 addition agencies 197:13 223:1 144:11 35:19 44:10 80:22 although 20:3 145:21154:6 142:10 agency 1:6 53:5 178:14 177:2,18 172:24 173:6 56:1 210:1 180:6 184:12 178:2,23 173:23 ages 47:3 194:19 209:2 187:17 additional ago 106:8 213:1,17 192:16 193:2 35:20 86:12 110:23 111:1 227:13 193:10 175:18 177:2 111:4,14 always 47:12 202:10 additionally 129:21 165:5 184:6 204:17 51:1170:4 138:20 150:3 AMERICA anyway 1 } * j J i ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES * TOWOLDMONOQ60741 232 iI] 101:24 anywhere 61:18 63:15 29:19 64:8 64:12 66:6 93:4 97:7 assumed 220:18 170:12171:2 221:20 171:7,13 backed 139:17 141:8 194:14 147:16 better 130:15 148:23 149:2 206:1 158:1 126:12 173:15 209:11 151:17 154:1 between 114:6 apart 89:6 180:14 assuming 15:5 background 155:17 160:9 114:11 apologize 189:20 63:23 48:16 54:15 170:10 145:24 8:21112:10 art 21:1145:7 assumptions 153:24 180:14 166:23 167:4 172:13 52:10 156:1 172:18 154:13,23 189:21192:7 183:15 apple 9:21,21 186:2 201:19 attached 6:2,3 155:4,13,17 210:11,19 210:17 apples 195:21 article 21:6,10 attempt 9:20 156:5 190:3 222:14 211:19,23 applicability 22:3 24:8 attempted 191:16,20 began 199:21 212:7 63:3 169:19 27:14,20,24 23:228:9 194:4 199:18 220:5 beyond applicable 38:5 48:18 30:23 41:10 203:24 205:2 begin 148:23 207:11 18:10 95:21 51:21 56:15 49:19 113:24 205:24 160:9 bias 104:13 application 57:3,6 62:17 attention 206:12,16,20 beginning big 53:21 47:2448:19 65:6 67:13 11:2020:17 207:22 208:9 1:19 7:2 bioaccumulate applications 68:2474:5 96:13 151:24 225:24 226:9 14:2221:19 98:12 114:21 59:15 85:12 78:8,20 189:14 banned 96:18 50:2 91:14 119:5,12,20 90:23 91:4 114:18 133:2 attributes 117:19,20 130:3 145:7 120:13 127:1 111:20 190:13,14,15 46:16 121:24 152:16 172:6 bioaccumulates 137:14,17 190:21 August 50:5 122:19 172:23 120:22 143:8 152:17 articles 34:5 50:23 141:3 125:11,12,20 beginning"pa... bioconcentrate 176:8 45:5 199:4 126:1128:4 144:21 98:11119:12 applied 217:7 asbestos 7:6 author 13:5 145:6 beginning"P... 119:14,19 227:11 7:13,22,24 15:6 122:13 bantered 144:24 120:2,7,9 applies 8:19 33:4 102:4 authoritative 115:6 begins 77:19 126:24 48:9 86:3 102:12 15:5,7 bar 113:19 113:20 123:1 bioconcentrat... 87:19 161:6 103:14 authority 133:14 133:15 145:2 98:9 175:5 194:14 ascended 173:8 188:13 145:10 160:5 biomagnificat... apply 100:3 149:2 author's 13:3 base 56:2 being 5:24 98:15 162:22 163:3 ascribed 85:4 13:6 based 39:24 8:13 10:7 biomagnify 166:7 167:18 ascribing 85:7 automatically 44:23 48:12 16:6,7 21:19 98:12 114:22 167:21 87:10 175:5 48:15 54:14 24:14 26:2 119:13 121:5 205:21 206:4 aside 94:6 available 129:7,8 31:10,23 121:6,7,11 229:17 asked 6:6 129:13 139:12 44:11,13 121:14 127:1 appropriate 10:13 25:13 130:13 191:19,23 63:13 114:10 biphenyl 100:1179:24 25:15 31:18 146:24 194:4 208:8 115:12,15 158:13,21 approximately 33:13 74:3 166:18 225:4 208:9 209:12 117:6,19,20 birth 14:10,11 1:20 102:23 91:7 115:12 avenue 2:7 222:8 123:21158:3 15:24 16:1 104:4 228:3 118:14 138:3 105:13 basically 165:6 183:13 16:14,15 arcing 195:15 147:1 168:12 aware 10:15 174:22 208:8 192:2193:16 127:9,9 area 20:8,21 186:17 19:2 76:18 basis 40:3 believe 5:9 128:21 34:4 77:2 213:14 220:3 196:1 81:3 128:9 12:10 49:2 bit 190:2 80:21118:4 asking 76:5 away 62:6 136:21139:1 60:12 85:5 199:20 142:21143:2 163:15 213:8 a.m 1:20 142:4 175:8 86:8 91:12 bite 9:20 144:6 152:2 217:14 203:10 95:2,20 black 124:9 162:10 asks 99:24 B 226:24 227:3 96:21121:4 blast 27:19 175:19 141:17 B 2:3 144:22 227:13 139:10 34:3 35:14 areas 123:6 aspects 150:22 bear 45:17 140:22 141:2 blasted 25:10 171:7,10 102:11 back 60:17 bears 125:23 141:6 149:19 29:2 32:9,12 173:15 assessed 81:24 82:2 128:24 133:7 157:11 33:9,22 40:6 174:10 209:24 89:8 106:5 become 40:6 169:20 49:1 70:20 175:19 176:1 assessment 109:19 becomes 170:21179:3 blasting 25:7 183:3,10 56:3 174:17 111:24 115:6 36:21 183:4 190:24 25:15,16 i 184:8,9,24 203:9 208:15 126:14 beebees 25:17 211:10 28:10 29:3 aren't 18:9 209:11 212:9 129:12 before 1:14,20 223:20,23 31:23 32:7 20:13 27:13 213:19 153:20 174:9 14:23 53:7 believed 34:7 41:1,4,5 88:1 90:23 226:20 174:13,13 64:1 68:4 213:20 48:21 71:3,9 132:22 183:7 assessments 176:3 183:8 70:7,8 71:1 believes 71:14 72:18 argue 33:14 175:10 183:14 71:13 74:8,9 143:18 blew 55:6 43:19 133:24 209:21 188:21 90:22 91:18 213:23 187:8 141:4 175:12 associated 190:11,21 100:20 below 22:17 blocked 49:20 argument 182:7 211:17 192:3 193:8 105:16 108:3 76:24 203:7 blow 52:24 8:13 36:3 association 195:5 197:14 109:20 203:11 53:15,20,21 57:24 67:7 36:1,21 40:2 199:20 112:24 116:8 bench 149:3 58:3,15 59:3 93:16 140:21 105:2,7 204:20 219:6 122:9 127:24 159:22 186:5 59:18 60:3,6 arise 43:13 assume 23:17 219:14,18 131:15 beneath 18:4 60:22 91:19 ; arises 107:21 126:22 134:5 220:8,10,11 134:14 19:4 186:21190:6 around 9:18 199:14 135:19 best 187:4 blown 14:6 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60742 233 22:736:14 123:17 189:24 career 17:12 175:22 119:4,10 59:20 60:22 brings 96:12 burn 200:23 careful 201:11 145:3 89:2 92:8 Broad 2:17 burning 184:22 certainteed chosen 19:17 97:20 107:10 broader 200:16 carriers 85:14 1:9 3:3 chuckling 108:17 210:20 business 86:4 87:3 99:22 100:4 132:18 179:11 broadest 92:20,23,24 90:1 91:2 certification CIH 198:9 blows 186:22 210:10 93:5,9 94:17 carry 157:2 229:16 Cincinnati blowups broke 151:4 109:1,7,10 case 10:6,11 Certified 198:3 41:20 83:3 197:8,11 buy 106:1,4 21:2125:23 198:9,17,19 Circle 2:7 blow-ups 11:9 broken 26:1 27:3,5 certify 229:5 circulated 149:1 132:18 C 28:2,17 certifying 124:16 blue 122:10 building 7:16 C 2:1145:1 34:16 37:7 229:20 circumstance 124:22,24 8:10 16:6,18 150:22 229:1 37:1138:14 cetera 25:2 162:9 126:4 18:3,1119:3 229:1 41:2442:1,2 90:2,2,2 circumstances board 126:14 22:3,22 23:1 calculation 44:7 45:15 chain 6:15 18:7 175:11 body 120:1,18 23:1424:15 204:10 45:17 48:1 8:18 98:13 citation 40:22 120:19,21 24:23 25:4 caD 20:16 48:22 49:8 98:16 119:13 51:4 172:9 Bond 25:13 25:11 26:3,7 21:1104:19 51:14 59:7 121:6,8,12 193:18 26:19 32:8 26:12 27:18 104:21 59:11 61:8 121:15 127:2 204:20 Bond's 24:3 29:5 31:20 106:13 112:8 64:6 65:14 chance 6:5 citations 25:22 70:21 35:2 36:8 136:13 66:5 67:1,3 104:24 202:15 book 11:12,17 37:1438:9 155:23 67:18 78:22 107:14 cite 48:6 15:5 16:22 38:1242:19 196:20 80:17 86:21 change 130:1 56:21165:9 17:6 82:9,20 43:7,23 203:19 210:5 93:20 94:10 changed 192:24 106:1,4,8,23 44:10,15 211:5 95:9 102:15 144:6 210:23 107:6,19,20 45:18,20 caUed 16:23 103:21105:4 changes 13:5 cited 31:3 108:12 46:1 47:9 21:2,11 105:8,11 changing 47:4 48:4 54:21 115:16 116:1 50:1 51:9 98:20 151:8 107:20 114:1 chapter 57:16 73:17 116:2,3 55:19 56:6 156:10 114:5,13,14 133:21,21 79:20 128:23 117:24 62:11 63:21 157:20 158:7 135:22 characteristics 174:5 189:16 122:10,22 64:4 68:14 158:12,20 138:23 144:5 46:20 111:21 191:3 192:15 124:6 125:23 69:7 70:4,5,8 174:21183:4 159:3 219:9 112:13,17,22 193:23 126:4 129:23 70:9 72:1,7 186:1 223:6,22 characterizati... 203:15 130:4,4,9 73:12 76:16 calling 176:7 cases 59:16 27:24 206:12 131:6,14 84:1 86:16 calls 71:8,9 73:23 characterize 226:18 132:18 133:3 87:1 91:5 104:16 210:6 casting 85:13 165:21 cites 31:17 137:22 93:18 95:21 came 43:10 86:3 87:2 characterized 55:3 206:15 144:23 145:2 96:24 97:1 76:2 162:13 90:1 91:1 94:23 111:14 225:14 145:10,12 102:5 103:2 190:3 193:13 catastrophic charged city 1:18 151:6,21 116:12 193:21 165:23 103:20 55:16,22 156:1 159:17 143:11 153:9 Canada 95:6 167:13 Charles 1:15 204:14,17,18 159:24 163:4 165:4 95:15 97:3 caulk 30:4,13 5:5 147:23 clairvoyance 176:10 177:6 165:4,24 cancer 211:16 30:14 41:12 chart 53:18 143:17 180:17 166:8 167:8 cap 65:24 43:21 50:8 53:19 55:14 clarification 181:13 167:14,19 capacitor 50:10,14 check 131:10 5:12 182:20 168:5 169:15 169:13 causing chemical clarify 91:9 190:20 202:9 170:17,20 capacitors 211:16 92:11 94:13 class 92:11 Boston 205:10 194:24 84:19 88:6 ceilings 76:22 108:20 94:13 108:20 both 24:2 195:10,18 90:8 168:22 77:2,3 217:1 109:21111:9 109:21 160:17 196:4200:17 168:24 169:9 cells 74:20 112:16,23 110:10 164:18 176:5 206:5 215:10 capillary 29:7 79:15 chemicals clean 24:24 bottom 52:21 218:17 36:15,18 center 187:23 17:8 92:13 33:18 35:14 98:4 160:5 219:12222:4 Capitol 2:22 202:24 108:21 110:2 56:2,20 57:8 186:22 226:13 capped 65:19 centimeter 110:6 111:15 65:8 72:15 bought 106:8 buildings 8:1 capping 64:16 185:13 112:17 73:12 93:7 124:12,15 9:8 24:12 74:13 77:9 204:10208:3 113:24 114:7 158:13,17,21 129:23 56:20,23 77:12,20 226:2,8 119:4 121:10 163:9 167:12 Boulevard 85:17153:3 carbon centimeters 173:11 171:19 1:23 203:23 204:6 153:19 154:7 54:12 191:10 chemistry 173:22 boundaries 204:24 205:9 155:9 191:18 194:2 142:22 174:23 175:4 205:9,21 carbonless 204:12 207:1 CHEMREX 175:18 176:6 box 9:16 225:22 85:14 86:4 certain 59:14 1:10 178:16 180:7 boxes 80:10 bulk 5:15,20 87:3 89:24 113:5 119:17 children 182:23 183:2 break 134:10 6:13 8:15,24 91:2 153:17 120:1137:13 97:11 183:10,16 135:7 196:16 37:12 38:11 carcinogen certainly chlorinated 184:9,13,24 breaks 189:4 73:6,7,14 209:3 20:13 27:4 98:10 113:13 185:3,15 bring 51:2 bulks 214:2 carcinogens 28:22 51:15 113:16 191:6 194:13 68:10 199:18 buBet 225:15 203:2 54:5 142:15 114:20,24 210:1,7,15 bringing bunch 34:21 170:18 118:15,18,23 210:17 211:5 * ) ft \ ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60743 4 234 211:6 218:1 combined 174:13 218:18,20 46:17 concentrating 219:1,5,11 combustion 49:10 222:3 226:14 21:4 concentration 227:10 come 13:24 129:1,3 cleaned 25:9 23:22 42:6 161:8,10,24 33:8 65:20 76:16 80:9 162:2,3 76:8 93:12 109:18 205:8 cleaning 120:19 concentrations 25:1138:6 139:21 156:5 161:11 49:1268:21 174:20176:3 195:11 132:24 188:12219:4 concept 153:1 142:24 219:6 153:5 154:1 167:15 comes 130:10 166:12 182:21184:5 coming 31:9 169:12 192:19 50:9 65:4 183:18 cleans 107:2 commence concern 30:12 cleanup 48:14 100:19 110:14 112:2 130:7 155:18 comment 52:1 128:5 129:20 157:24 79:24219:22 137:19 174:15 175:7 commentary 166:17 213:19 130:24 concerned cleanups commercial 10:9 47:15 109:15 185:8 84:16 88:19 47:19 64:22 210:12 89:17 66:1 78:3 clear 9:14 COMMISSION 99:7 112:24 54:1102:13 1:5 128:3 143:9 138:20 common 183:13 139:12 174:6 23:10 36:12 concerning 210:17 114:24 17:15 22:1 227:13 commonly 23:4 29:20 clearer 48:3 54:21 38:5 41:18 213:16 57:15 180:8 51:12 67:20 clearly 45:3 185:3 189:16 137:2 139:13 144:3 165:9 190:15 191:3 concerns 166:12 192:15 16:19 35:24 167:14 168:7 193:23 36:23 65:15 175:5 commonwealth 66:23 74:4 clients 93:5 1:1,18 5:2,3 74:15 79:4 close 83:24 65:15 80:21 136:22 207:3 214:19 147:21 concert 214:20 224:21 225:7 218:14 closely 172:2 company 1:9 concluded closing 117:22 1:12,13 138:19 228:2 141:15 105:4 109:7 conclusion coating 60:13 136:24 44:3 60:19,23 compared conclusive 62:6 63:2,5 218:1 221:23 64:16 77:10 comparison concrete 21:5 77:17,21 114:11,16,19 21:12,23 coatings competent 22:2,9,12,15 63:12 219:19 22:24 23:9 coffee 178:3 completely 24:6,9,14,20 coin 226:17 94:1105:12 25:1,7,21,22 227:6 completeness 26:1,9,16 collateral 208:20 27:6,9,11,16 80:23 component 27:19 28:4,7 collection 47:9 103:1 28:18,21 205:24 components 29:2,3,8,16 college 106:18 119:11 30:3,15,16 124:20 compound 31:8,14 32:2 colored 85:15 120:16 32:7,10 33:7 87:4 89:24 154:18 33:20 34:2,8 column 55:24 comprise 34:13,18 55:24 172:6 92:10 94:12 35:14,17,23 172:10,23 108:19 36:9,11,20 187:24 computer 37:2,4,13 columns 217:2 38:7,11,17 172:2 conceived 38:21,22 39:3,15,19 92:12 94:14 40:1,10 108:21 41:10,19,22 109:23 110:5 42:10,12,23 110:11,15 43:11,12,18 125:13 43:21 45:8 129:21 45:11,17 conjecture 46:10,13,16 45:1 46:20,23 consider 39:8 47:3,7,16,20 39:16 104:23 48:21 49:11 166:4 49:17,24 consideration 50:12,15,18 44:21 51:8,13,20 considering 52:1154:19 107:1 207:22 56:9,11,14 226:9 56:17,18,24 consistent 57:5,7 59:10 94:1 59:17 60:1 consult 130:7 61:7,23 62:2 consultant 62:14,18,24 221:16 227:7 63:20 64:2 consultants 64:17,23 221:10 65:24 66:13 consultation 66:18,22 224:8 225:3 67:3,8,16,22 consumption 67:24 68:3 121:9 68:22 69:20 contact 22:19 69:24 70:20 132:6 159:5 70:24 71:10 171:11,12 71:11 72:6 211:19 72:18 73:19 213:21 214:2 73:24 74:6 214:3 218:7 74:14,17,21 218:9 75:8 76:11 contacted 77:9,21 79:5 5:18 10:12 79:17,18 207:15 216:6 80:16,19,22 226:4 80:24 81:6 contain 83:24 81:10,14 121:9 162:18 185:22 186:3 contained 186:7 192:19 29:6 82:14 conditions 114:17 175:4 184:23 containing conduct 24:19 33:5 136:23 137:3 87:2 162:24 138:21142:3 185:22 144:4 209:6 containment 209:17 183:4 conductivity contains 111:17 153:18 confident contaminants 214:17 47:2,6 confirm 6:5 166:19 78:15 107:12 contaminated confirmed 33:21 35:17 5:22 36:22 39:15 confirms 65:5 48:24 70:24 confront 72:21 84:12 115:24 131:23 132:2 confronted 143:11 116:13 contamination confused 14:8 15:22 185:10 18:23 22:14 confusing 24:22 27:12 43:8 44:4 34:1 35:24 confusion 9:2 45:11 46:10 43:9 46:19 48:5 congress 57:17 63:4 64:17 71:10 83:17 84:14 84:21,23 85:8,2186:9 88:17 89:15 122:2 126:3 126:7,15 127:7128:14 128:19 151:9 152:6 153:3 153:8 154:10 154:24 155:4 155:22 160:24 165:8 165:9 166:15 167:22 168:7 171:7 173:13 173:15 180:9 183:8 185:4 191:4195:13 199:6 203:23 204:1,24 205:2,8 207:17,22 209:23 225:22,24 226:6,9 contaminations 85:3 contend 46:5 46:6 contends 46:4 contents 201:3 context 107:21 153:12 176:21177:5 179:5 180:19 181:5,10,14 181:19 182:6 183:11 217:17 continue 7:12 65:18 66:6 continuing 81:19 99:24 125:15 continuously 47:3 114:12 contractors 50:8 221:10 contradicts 130:17 contravention 116:6 control 110:1 110:16 142:20 229:19 controlled 25:18 92:12 94:14 108:20 109:22 110:11 controls 95:5 conversations 136:3 conversion ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60744 235 204:12,15 34:19 40:21 206:22 41:2 51:10 convert 204:9 52:17 66:9 converts 78:24 79:19 208:1 92:7 107:13 cookbook 108:16 167:12 117:11,23 copied 68:9 122:24 136:2 copies 10:24 136:7 141:9 157:5 143:18 copy 26:20 145:24 83:9 87:4 counsel's 6:20 107:8 124:16 9:20 27:23 133:11 130:23 153:17 157:8 countiy 124:7 157:9 161:18 124:11,17 186:4 197:10 193:8 copying County 55:17 161:19,22 55:22 corner 198:1 couple 106:14 corporation 189:20 1:9,12 2:13 course 7:9 3:4 96:7 99:22 correct 7:3 179:18 204:7 14:18 31:12 court 1:1,18 35:19 38:18 5:1,4,8,14 39:12 70:3 6:21,24 7:5,8 89:18 100:5 7:21 8:11 105:15,18,24 11:1,13,15 109:4,16 11:18,22 111:12 127:3 12:4,12 131:17 13:10 19:22 145:17 146:9 20:3,16 156:3,3 21:14 23:23 159:4 166:9 24:1,7 26:18 168:6 169:7 29:9,24 30:1 169:11 30:5,10 31:5 170:15,24 31:7,10,12 171:19,20 31:13,21 172:21174:1 32:1,4,23 191:1198:11 33:22 35:10 198:20 35:18,19 199:10 36:3 38:15 200:10,22 38:15,23 202:21 39:1,6,10,18 204:13,15 40:12,16 207:20 41:13,16 209:19 212:3 42:5 50:19 212:14 50:21 52:6 215:12,14,21 52:12 54:2,4 215:23 218:9 54:9,18,23 218:11 222:8 55:10,16 224:11,17 56:5,8,12 225:17 57:10 58:1,8 correctly 58:11 60:4,8 146:7 191:14 60:14 69:2 214:18 70:3 71:13 215:22 71:20 72:13 216:20 72:23,23 correspondence 74:8 75:16 10:14,17 75:21 77:14 cost 103:2 79:1,20 80:4 142:24 81:7,12,13 counsel 2:5,9 81:14,16,22 2:13,18,24 82:2,12 84:3 3:3 7:4,6,8 84:5 88:1,11 7:12 10:24 88:24 89:5,8 12:9,2113:1 89:11,12,20 23:2,18 27:1 91:10,20,23 92:5 94:24 courtaulds 138:6 76:24 95:11,16 1:10 2:18 cutting 35:22 declared 5:4 96:1,21 100:4,6 decontaminate 97:16,21 courtroom D 24:19 26:2,9 98:5,24 1:18 104:19 D 4:1145:4 27:17 29:4 99:11,18 104:24115:7 150:23 31:20 36:7 100:3,16,24 136:16 228:1 daily 171:11 61:23 62:13 101:4,5,6,7 Court's 10:16 damaged 102:5 101:10,14 11:2030:1 199:23 decontaminat... 103:9 104:14 40:19 69:8 DANAHER 26:1156:23 107:24 108:6 69:17 182:15 2:21 69:7 185:22 112:7 113:11 covered 176:2 dangerous decontaminat... 113:23 cream 178:8 17:7 21:12,23 114:12 create 49:21 data 30:18,20 45:7 47:10 116:24117:6 92:19 108:24 34:15,15 52:1055:4 117:9 118:2 119:2 35:6,9 37:17 56:18 57:4 118:9 122:23 created 80:15 44:1,2,2 61:170:7 123:3,5,11 81:5 94:8 49:16,23 186:3,6 123:16 124:1 126:15 67:6 70:1 189:17 125:8 127:18 creation 215:10,13,20 192:16 130:14 131:1 201:2 216:23 217:5 193:24 133:14 134:5 credentials database deep 59:9,16 134:11,16,21 15:14 102:19 60:1 134:23 135:2 credibility date 75:22 defect 96:2 135:6,11,23 18:15 19:12 dated 199:5 137:10 136:15,24 93:3 104:13 224:6 229:14 139:21,22 137:9 138:19 116:16 daughter's 140:2,17,17 138:24 crier 5:1 106:17 141:5 144:9 139:10,23 101:4,7,10 124:20 defend 114:4 140:2,20,22 147:20 148:4 day 147:14 defendant 141:1,5 148:8 196:19 182:24 2:13,18,24 144:10,13 196:21,24 195:20 3:3 46:4 146:1,14,19 227:21 210:12 85:6 147:1,3,7,13 criteria 21:3 227:17 defendants 147:17,20,22 56:2 180:9 days 146:6,11 1:13 93:22 148:2,4,8 185:3 211:6 153:20 137:4,5 149:2,7,14 213:20 218:2 DDT 113:15 defendant's 149:21,24 218:20 114:3,5,11 45:9 150:4,8,12 crop 83:19 114:13 115:1 defense 136:2 150:17,22 crops 171:17 118:18 define 163:8 151:14,20 173:20 deal 24:9 72:2 defined 152:13,14,19 cross 18:13,18 82:13 151:5 160:16 163:6 154:19 48:19 67:14 165:17 definition 156:13,24 78:17 80:13 174:16 159:16,23 157:1,6 87:14 100:17 dealing 78:10 161:3 162:14 160:8,11,14 103:8 123:21 86:7 87:16 163:3,11 166:22 125:6 179:18 87:23 200:20 167:18,20 168:16 179:23 188:2 deals 20:21 211:4 171:21172:1 Crowell 64:21 24:10 56:16 degree 46:24 172:8 173:2 66:10 74:2 57:7 88:4 degrees 176:13,16 75:1,18 78:1 dealt 17:22 224:16 227:1 177:6,9,12 79:11 80:23 96:9 demolition 178:7 179:16 Crowell's debate 19:16 47:11 72:3 179:23 181:3 65:22 68:8 130:20 demonstrate 181:6,17 75:13 79:4 decades 24:20 182:2,2,4 CT 2:23 126:23 demonstrates 186:6 187:10 cubic 54:12 decide 19:14 20:15 188:14,19 180:13 116:15 217:6 demonstrating 189:2,9 191:10,18 218:17 16:10 196:11,17,19 207:1 decided 93:21 department 196:19,24,24 Cup 178:3 decision 44:23 1:2,3,6 55:21 197:5 200:2 current 130:8 219:18 222:9 93:18 94:2,4 201:24 202:4 130:8 180:10 226:21 227:4 197:21 205:18 currents 216:12 184:4 217:14 220:1 custody 6:15 decisions 130:6 219:16 deck 33:7,16 218:14,15 219:10 221:6 221:15,17 220:9,16,20 8:19 33:20 34:2 222:2,6 220:22 224:3 cut 83:12 227:18,21,21 137:12,16 decking 76:23 223:5 227:8 227:9 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES i i ) ! J 4 TOWOLDMONOQ60745 I 236 deposition difficult 22:16 113:20 dose 18:9 edited 53:3,3 53:19 57:19 i 1:23 104:22 24:21,23 118:11123:1 doses 18:9 122:11 58:2,21 93:2 117:1,4,13 26:8,15 124:3 133:15 double 148:21 editing 57:13 107:20 117:14,16,17 33:18121:1 135:9 down 31:20 edition 12:10 176:20 229:7 difficulty dismissing 32:13 55:14 12:22,23 178:20179:5 deposits 22:20 24:1149:11 183:21 62:23 64:9 14:2,2 179:8,14 depth 173:9 49:12 disposal 47:12 65:20 70:8,9 editions 13:2 186:21187:9 depths 23:10 Digest 130:12 disregard 72:15 73:13 editors 122:14 entirely 59:5 36:12 dioxin 48:13 50:22 81:21105:4 effect 10:14 entombed derived 22:5 201:2,3 disruptive 200:16 129:20 74:16 deriving 21:2 202:16 188:2 208:15 224:7 effects 17:20 entombing dermal 218:23,24 distinction 8:8 dozen 38:4 130:10 76:6,10 171:12 dioxins 192:9 210:17 41:20 eight 13:16 entries 52:15 211:17 219:4 distinguishing dozens 109:14 67:12 53:23 describe dire 15:14 114:6 Dr 97:9 129:3 either 8:12,19 environment 167:7 direct 11:20 distributed 129:17,24 47:1 50:12 110:24 designations 15:12 17:22 126:20 224:9 141:2 146:17 111:11,23 198:6 21:22 43:4 disturbed draw 151:23 152:10 112:15,20 designed 44:12 55:6 77:5 178:6 elected 174:19 113:1128:7 166:4 174:12 68:15 98:15 disturbing dries 47:4 185:14 137:20 desk 154:7,8 117:18 139:8 77:6 drill 76:19 electric 138:13 desks 153:22 175:14 doctor 224:10 ductboard 168:22 140:12 destruction 187:17 document 39:22 electrical 153:23 226:3 201:1 198:21 11:24 12:16 ducts 86:14 74:20 79:15 environmental detailed 229:19 47:23 52:7 ductwork 111:17,18 66:12 92:21 217:23 directed 50:22 52:24 53:1,7 46:3 86:10 132:4 137:14 93:1,11 detected 125:14 53:15 69:5,9 183:19 ELECTRONL. 94:19,20 26:16 220:22 69:23 81:10 due 146:3 1:11 109:2,8,11 determine 221:15 91:13 92:6 duly 148:14 elicit 23:2 126:22 119:8 131:11 directing 158:2,8,20 229:6 34:6 142:11 209:24 162:8 69:12 158:24 during 27:3,5 eliciting 43:15 environments determined directly 159:10,11 46:7 86:10 elmo 54:4 207:14 50:13 56:2 159:19 168:20 169:1 86:13 135:16 elsewhere EPA 19:19 161:9 162:1 167:15 169:18 170:8 136:6 163:20 174:4 204:8 52:20 53:4,5 develop directs 189:2 172:10 171:16 ELSPCB 125:14156:9 125:14 dirty 184:10 175:15 173:18 215:21 156:10,16 developed disadvantage 181:20 186:9 178:23 elusive 24:21 157:20,23 110:22 111:3 45:4 188:7,15 dust 22:19 embarrassed 158:7,12,15 111:13 113:4 disagree 189:6,15,16 183:9,14 133:9 159:20 165:5 144:24 87:19 116:18 192:13,14,18 184:6,10 EMERGENCY 165:16 168:8 171:14 disagrees 193:1 200:1 duty 139:14 1:5 170:11173:8 developing 115:14 200:19 210:2 dye 85:14 emphasized 174:3,5,16 170:12 171:8 discharge 210:19,22,23 86:4 87:3 208:23 174:19 175:5 173:16 164:5 211:3 213:18 90:1 91:2 emphasizes 175:16 development discharges 223:8,13,21 6:14 189:21 203:9 211:13 160:19 223:24 E employee 210:6,7,14 developmental 164:20 226:16 E 2:1,1 4:1 198:21 211:8,11,15 99:2 disclose 85:20 documents 11:21101:19 employees 212:5,7,20 m device 192:11 155:3,7 6:6 14:23 145:7 148:17 218:16 213:2,18,23 devote 67:9 disclosed 86:8 137:1,15 150:23 229:1 enacted 53:6 214:22 215:5 devoted 67:15 86:17 139:1,12,24 229:1 95:12 218:1,21 DGS 94:5 disclosing 192:20 each 172:9 encountered 221:22 225:5 196:5 153:2 223:18 173:21 22:16 EPA's 166:16 dictate 23:11 discovered 226:18 earlier 153:16 end 50:2 167:11 212:9 different 126:8 154:14 doing 27:15 199:11 127:16 141:2 epidemiology 12:23 82:20 discovery 85:6 105:8 early 106:6 149:10 17:20 105:13 122:1126:2 129:5 131:15 141:3 ends 118:11 epoxy 62:6 115:23 117:1 discuss 18:6,7 183:16 185:1 early'80s 124:3 135:9 equally 8:19 117:12 153:6 201:7 205:22 193:8 engineering equipment 119:19 discussed 10:8 done 5:23 8:4 easier 82:8,10 109:12 84:19 131:23 132:16 136:5 153:1 9:4 24:5 215:7 enough 45:15 132:5 160:22 158:10 174:8 153:16 192:7 27:8 30:4 easily 190:14 66:2 181:1 163:23 183:1185:16 195:23 41:6 54:7 Echt 197:12 207:3 214:20 164:23 165:3 189:24 190:2 223:10 72:5,19,20 198:4,16 entered 28:5 171:15 191:6,7 discusses 85:2 103:24 205:13,20,22 entering 28:4 173:17 195:7 192:24 173:6 115:10 130:2 215:9 217:6 entertained error 6:12,22 194:10 discussing 177:3 223:11 218:12 73:21 6:22 195:13 135:21 203:8 226:17 227:9 Echt's 205:16 entire 17:11 escape 138:12 200:13 219:5 discussion doors 183:6 20:11 53:18 166:17 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60746 237 especially 183:15 espouse 20:5 ESQUIRE 1:23 2:3,6,11 2:16,21 3:1 essence 47:13 96:18 97:15 essentially 52:19 53:4 117:22 establish 75:6 established 15:14 73:5 73:10 110:17 131:21175:2 175:3 218:20 establishes 159:1 establishment 29:23 estimate 102:7 103:17 170:19 estimated 211:15 et 25:2 90:1,2 90:2 evaluations 209:7,18 even 18:10 27:12 38:8 38:11 39:22 43:1,23 44:8 61:22 64:3 65:8,18,19 74:16 78:3 133:10 142:2 151:20 154:12 175:8 188:8 event 7:11 10:12 13:7 17:21 38:1 41:7 61:4 66:15 73:15 74:24 93:23 139:9 events 210:13 ever 129:22 130:1 every 45:21 96:8 143:2 174:18 210:12 222:23 everybody 96:16,16 104:19 195:20 everyone 58:3 180:4 everything 32:21 93:23 134:19 165:15 186:13 189:4 203:16 223:16 evidence 21:2423:12 27:228:3,5,5 28:1640:17 42:2143:6 44:7,13 49:20 69:5 73:18 80:3 80:18 86:18 87:1,5,9 139:21 149:11,12,16 150:7 197:14 223:1 227:14 evidencing 38:17 Ewing 37:24 Ewing's 30:17 30:21 exact 74:4 158:6 exactly 54:17 55:1 68:22 131:11152:8 172:3 195:18 exam 178:24 189:2 examination 18:13 48:20 67:14 78:18 87:14 100:17 103:8 123:22 125:7 143:13 179:24 188:3 189:8 examine 80:13 examined 68:16 148:14 examining 12:16 example 22:6 58:6 59:8 60:10 114:24 120:8,8 155:10 193:4 195:18 examples 25:1 91:1191:6 192:24 exceed 207:18 216:3 226:7 exceeded 216:2 except 15:2 117:8 195:15 200:16219:8 exception 15:19 exceptionally 173:12 excerpt 159:22 164:3 190:5 excerpted 24:2 57:3 107:7 excerpts 117:23 177:21 excess 176:1 211:24212:7 exchange 145:23 excise 91:21 excuse 122:7 133:6 135:19 154:5 178:17 186:16 208:17 excused 136:19 exercise 227:2 exhibit 11:21 53:8,24 81:12 83:6 108:2133:18 144:19,22,24 145:3,17 148:24 150:16 196:9 197:14 222:12 exhibits 10:23 41:20 67:11 67:12 100:10 145:18 150:18 157:3 exist 84:15 88:18 89:17 162:9 existed 86:10 153:9 existence 128:6 exists 34:17 177:21 experience 39:24 219:17 221:9,11 experienced 222:9 expert 15:3,18 17:17,19 19:7 34:4 43:24 45:9 48:23 66:10 66:12,16 73:11 75:2 79:12 83:22 140:4,5 142:19,20 143:2 194:13 222:23 expertise 144:7 experts 39:7 expert's 144:6 explain 129:4 142:9 181:19 182:1 202:1 214:24 216:15 220:6 explaining 169:12 201:18 explanation 220:24 explicitly 92:1194:13 108:20 109:22 110:10 explore 41:2 49:3 140:8 140:15 explosion 195:2 exposed 16:11 63:13 exposure 63:7 203:1211:17 225:9,19 express 30:24 expressed 61:15 74:4 129:20 extension 209:3 extent 47:17 181:18 extenuating 175:11 exterior 41:12 43:12 50:7 external 160:22 163:23 164:22 165:2 168:4 extra 157:5 extreme 26:4 extremely 126:11,20,21 155:20 184:22 195:11 eyesight 187:4 e.g 171:8,14 173:9 F F 22:13 109:9 145:10 150:23 229:1 facilities 48:17 54:16 191:21194:5 facility 214:5 fact 5:23 18:8 28:7 30:22 32:8 33:6,20 39:16 41:4 48:24 49:18 50:14,16 57:18 62:9 67:18 71:1 94:7 104:16 113:2,6 126:15,19 128:23 133:9 139:3 153:16 159:16 174:9 186:1196:3 201:4 227:1 factor 129:5 facts 39:9 40:7 70:12 factual 35:3 38:2 51:6 79:12 failure 14:9 15:23 16:13 127:8 128:20 failures 195:7 fairness 194:8 foil 9:12 familiar 120:11 123:20 136:8 136:9 157:16 170:8 196:6 200:15 222:20 223:5 223:8 far 26:5 63:17 200:6 226:15 farmland 173:19 farmlands 171:17 FARRINGT... 2:2 fast 120:18 fat 119:23 120:11121:3 Fe 191:14 194:18,23 195:4,8 204:8 205:10 feasible 203:3 207:21 225:20 226:8 feather 114:2 February 1:16,19 229:14 federal 160:4 feeling 76:12 feet 170:13,17 170:23 171:9 175:20 few 43:10 60:16 fiat 30:11 field 22:6 66:12 130:6 143:16 fifth 199:22 211:20 212:13 filed 140:23 fill 81:1 filling 65:23 74:19 78:4 filters 217:1 final 132:17 158:14,21 finally 218:12 find 12:13 19:20 24:22 51:3 70:15 85:3 151:8 152:10,14 153:8 155:14 160:8172:3 172:11 finding 152:7 fine 20:12 29:18 35:2 58:5,17,18 75:8 100:24 107:24 108:9 149:7 150:17 152:19 172:8 188:23 217:13 finish 216:12 finishing 62:20 fire 46:8 48:13 85:1,4 85:8 86:8,16 151:7 153:7 154:14 155:3 155:6 163:21 165:23 193:16 194:23 195:3 195:4,14,16 199:21,24 200:8,11,12 200:13,16,20 201:7,14,17 202:11,13 fireproofing 5:16 6:1 8:16 fires 48:9 84:17 85:17 85:20 88:5 90:7 153:2 192:7,17 193:2,7,10 195:7 201:1 201:10 firm 102:17 102:22 103:23 first 22:8 24:8 42:24 46:22 52:15 55:23 57:18 58:21 59:12 62:18 71:19 83:12 88:7,15 89:13 91:12 92:9 97:16 97:24 108:8 111:3 119:6 155:15 170:7 172:5 186:21 186:23 187:14 189:15 195:24 197:16 199:3 200:1 216:18 fish 121:19 five 100:14,23 150:3 five-minute 101:1 flammability i s 1 j J ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60747 238 111:16 19:9 22:21 168:24 95:6,15 46:13 76:13 147:6 148:23 i flip 122:15 22:23 28:21 169:10 gets 15:17 101:6,15,17 149:18,22 flipping 29:13 34:24 171:15,22 121:12142:3 101:22 150:2,6 226:17 227:5 35:3 37:12 172:4 173:17 getting 9:22 221:23 151:10 floor 1:23 38:3 75:2,9 176:10,16 43:14 51:13 227:16 154:16156:8 2:1132:3,5,6 83:2290:22 181:11,23 give 167:12 gotten 104:6 157:10,21 42:15 64:24 91:8,11,18 184:9,21,24 201:24 105:3 166:21 170:24 91:24 142:16 187:11 220:23 goutman 2:11 168:14 199:22 217:1 222:18,22 189:14 190:3 given 31:17 5:13,21 6:19 176:19177:1 219:2 foundational 193:13,21,23 40:21142:15 8:3,9,14,21 177:17,24 flooring 29:6 29:22 194:3 199:8 157:10229:8 9:4,6 10:21 178:2,3,17 66:15 four 45:12 199:24 gives 147:8 11:5,19 12:1 178:22179:2 floors 42:13 160:6 200:13 giving 205:23 12:7,19 179:13 180:1 43:11,18 fourth 199:22 215:10 glasses 161:20 13:12,17,21 181:4,24 45:18 62:20 Francisco 217:22 219:4 161:22 14:1,15,20 186:16 187:2 199:23 216:8 55:17,23 220:11,18 glue 28:6 17:3 18:19 187:16,19 216:24 frankly 22:5 225:4 226:16 go 28:1 29:19 20:7,20 21:7 188:4,23 focus 54:5 114:9 front 52:4 47:22 61:18 21:17 22:11 195:24 92:14 108:22 free 143:10 57:24 107:19 61:24 63:15 26:23 27:21 205:15 110:14 frequently 133:8 174:9 68:4 72:9 29:9,12 30:7 208:17 139:22 22:15 85:1 foil 88:15 88:22 89:8 30:2232:15 212:17 213:1 164:16,24 85:20 148:4 95:13 113:18 32:18 33:10 213:5,14 199:20 219:1 Friday 146:5 fumes 45:24 119:24 34:9 37:8 214:9,13 focusing 146:13,14,17 46:1,3,7 132:12 40:11,18 216:9,22 187:22 146:20,21,24 fund 106:18 139:17 141:7 45:22 50:4 217:10,16 follow 20:5 friendly 104:7 124:21 141:13 156:7 52:8,13 218:4222:13 82:8,14 from 5:16,22 fundamental 183:2 189:5 56:10,13 222:17,18 225:7 6:16 7:2,16 141:13 195:22 198:3 57:1 58:5,10 Goutman's following 85:1 7:22,24 9:7 fonny 132:19 201:14 58:12,17,20 6:10,16 88:10151:7 9:17 11:12 132:20,21 202:18 58:24 59:23 213:13 153:7 11:17,23 133:4,7 210:22 215:8 59:24 60:9 government follows 14:2117:1,5 foran 48:13 215:9 224:7 60:16 61:11 96:5,15 148:15 20:24 21:10 furniture goal 218:17 61:16 62:15 gracious food 98:13,16 21:18 22:5 217:21 God 114:3 63:9,16 66:8 178:22 119:13 121:5 22:18 23:3 further 7:14 goes 19:11 69:11,15 gram 214:14 121:8,12,14 24:12 25:5 25:10,10 23:8 40:19 70:10 71:2 grams 180:10 127:1 30:14 32:13 31:19,23 52:21 77:5 71:12,21 211:18 foot 170:20 35:12,24 32:12 33:8,9 92:17 93:2,4 72:9 73:2 213:22 214:1 footnotes 38:5 39:22 41:1,3,5 99:3,6 74:7,10,18 Grant 2:7 202:15 43:16 46:3 72:17 81:8 104:12 74:24 78:23 gravity 42:16 foregoing 46:18 55:14 144:11 138:14 79:1081:9 great 178:4 229:16 57:3 60:17 Furthermore 140:16 141:4 81:18,23 greater 17:12 forget 165:6 62:7 65:4,6 77:11 144:8 161:5 82:4,18,19 23:10 36:12 184:19 67:10,12 future 62:22 169:22 82:24 83:4 52:16 161:8 forgot 51:1 69:3,5 71:4 64:9 186:13 83:10 85:24 162:18 form 118:9 83:11,17 203:21 207:3 86:22 87:8 grinding 125:3 154:17 84:15,21 G 207:12 90:10,18 22:19 formed 86:10 88:17 garbled 211:12 92:3,7 93:14 gross 182:23 171:16 89:15 97:9 161:19 216:15 95:1,12,19 ground 173:19 97:13 100:7 gas 138:17 going 9:24 96:20 98:2,7 173:10,12 192:10 102:14105:2 gave 7:6,13 13:8 19:20 99:15,19,23 grown 171:18 former 10:10 106:1107:5 72:11127:24 23:18 27:17 102:1103:4 173:20 forth 18:11,23 107:6 112:9 197:10 50:7 60:2,7 104:2,8 guess 18:19 23:12 52:17 117:24 127:5 geared 132:4 66:19 73:21 105:3,7,17 23:18 26:24 87:5 95:7 129:17 general 1:3 79:16 81:24 107:17 108:1 34:20 73:2 115:7 183:6 130:14 55:20 57:8 82:2 100:11 108:7 113:17 194:19 183:8,14 132:14,16 99:8 152:2 106:21 113:22 115:8 guideline 73:8 188:21 136:1142:11 159:7 167:20 110:18 118:5 117:8 123:7 73:9 165:15 214:15 144:16,20,22 197:21199:9 135:11,13,15 123:23 185:9 208:7 222:22 145:1,2,4,9 214:7 218:14 135:17,23 130:22 208:13 209:4 forward 42:6 145:11 221:16 149:10 133:13,17 212:6 213:2 86:12 148:24 154:2 generally 150:13 176:3 135:1136:7 216:3 found 17:9 154:11 120:3' 182:13 136:13,20 guidelines 45:20 50:5 159:19 gentleman's 190:11 138:18 52:2 53:5 74:2 129:7 160:24 226:24 194:13,15 140:20 178:16 180:8 133:20 161:19 gentlemen 195:5 219:8 143:14 184:13 152:23 162:12 101:16 219:13 144:12 218:19 191:24 165:10 Germany gone 32:21 145:15,20 guy 93:3 foundation 167:23 168:7 good 5:7,8 146:8,16,22 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60748 239 H 209:18 156:21 half 50:11 hazardous 169:22 186:22 17:8 high 18:9 HaliweU's hazards 109:8 111:19 132:5 25:5 39:5 heading 37:2 159:5 173:12 40:4,22 77:17 132:23 176:8 195:11 70:23 72:10 133:21198:1 Hall 1:18 headings 211:19 213:20214:3 Halliwell 23:3 122:16 218:7 23:5 24:4 132:15,19,22 higher 171:13 28:9 30:23 health 17:20 highlight 31:18 32:10 55:2293:19 174:10 34:13 35:15 94:3 111:22 highlighted 39:14 41:8 112:14,19 123:6,19 50:6 113:6 119:9 157:9 hand 21:13 129:19 Highlighting 24:6 69:9 130:10 198:3 219:3 74:9 79:7 198:5,16,18 highly 66:23 156:11,23 208:9 209:6 67:17 196:8,10 209:18 him 6:6,14 222:11 218:15 23:17,19 handbook 219:10 221:6 25:14,15 11:4,10 221:17 222:2 35:11 37:6,9 16:24 82:1,5 222:6 224:13 41:3 57:11 96:14 105:22 224:19 227:8 57:13 69:12 110:20 227:9 72:11,13 113:10 127:5 Health's 74:9 78:5 131:7,14 223:5 85:18 91:7 138:2 176:11 hear 61:12 91:17 93:7 176:17 75:16 149:24 104:7 107:19 178:12 heard 8:8 115:2,24 handed 197:8 29:9 42:4 136:13 138:5 handle 17:11 45:14,21,24 140:8 142:19 handled 94:15 97:6,8 142:21143:1 116:11 97:10,13 150:7 151:13 handling 109:19 129:3 202:12 10:11 129:17,24 215:14 hands 36:6 130:14 216:12 93:6 hearing hire 93:7 hang 77:3 112:23 history hangers 77:1 hearsay 14:24 134:24 212:2 happen 44:22 15:19 142:12 hold 12:22 64:3 143:3 holding 11:13 happened heart 40:20 holds 137:6 44:9,18,18 heat 111:15 Honest 89:1 44:19 167:19 heating 86:11 Honor 5:7,11 169:14 heaven's 6:19 8:2 227:12 16:22 9:13 10:2,3,5 happens held 1:17 10:2111:8 43:17 57:5 hello 147:18 11:11,19 155:7 help 13:24 12:8,2114:4 happy 57:22 42:16 206:13 14:2116:4 58:1 107:23 206:14,17 17:4 18:12 151:16 189:3 219:19 20:2,7,10,20 213:10 221:13 21:8,17 22:7 hard 211:18 helped 56:1 23:22 26:23 hardly 165:22 92:19 108:24 27:22 28:8 Harrisburg helpful 24:14 29:13 30:8 97:2 204:7 164:11173:5 30:23 33:3 205:12 219:19 34:9 35:4 Hartford 2:23 HENDERSON 38:2,13,20 having 26:10 2:6 40:18 41:23 136:1148:13 heralds 25:17 42:3 45:2 166:22 HERSCHEL 46:21 49:4 hazard 92:22 3:1 49:4 49:13 50:3,4 93:2,11 80:6,12 50:18 51:2,5 94:19,20 99:21115:3 51:24 52:3 109:2 209:6 125:2134:6 53:13 57:1 144:2 156:17 58:6 59:1,8 60:10,12 215:24 impeaching 61:13 63:16 217:10,18 15:8 118:10 64:14 66:8 219:21 220:8 impeachment 66:16 67:5 220:14 15:3,18 68:5,24 222:10,16,24 17:24 28:23 69:15 70:11 224:1 227:15 51:17 115:11 70:18 71:12 honorable 115:19 71:19,22 1:14 5:5 116:21 72:8 73:3,15 147:23 141:23 142:2 73:17 74:1 hope 182:10 important 75:11,17 hopefully 83:15 84:13 76:1 78:23 105:1 88:16 89:14 79:21 80:7 hospital 91:15 107:18 80:12 81:18 184:23 129:4 155:16 81:23 82:7,7 hours 223:12 179:4206:20 83:4,18 223:21 214:22 86:23 87:7 hour's 73:22 importantly 87:13 88:10 house 53:21 46:6 47:7 90:10,14,17 HOYLE 3:1 imposed 95:4 92:3 93:15 human 63:7 impossible 94:6 95:2 111:22 84:10 217:5 96:21 98:3 112:14,19 impression 99:21100:6 113:6 114:22 8:12 100:8 101:13 HUMPHREY improper 103:6,7 2:2 45:1117:24 104:10,13 hundred inadvertently 107:17112:4 54:12 110:22 84:20 113:9,18,22 111:1,4,14 inappropriate 115:8 118:8 185:13 194:2 221:12 121:23 125:7 hurts 76:4 inc 1:10,10 127:5,22 hygiene 106:2 2:19 131:2,19 131:19,21 inch 25:20 133:17,23 Hygienist 45:21 134:20 198:10,17,19 inches 44:6 135:18 hype 112:1 50:11 136:12,20 hypothetical incident 137:7 138:19 29:20 167:13 139:6,9,19 191:15 141:14 142:6 I incidentally 142:18 idea 76:7,13 141:17 143:15 144:2 86:13 120:22 include 91:4 144:9 148:22 124:18 211:7 149:19,23 138:15 195:6 included 150:9,20 identification 110:6 151:11,17 181:7 includes 152:2,17 identified 102:18,18 156:16,23 5:24 28:14 164:4 216:24 159:21160:4 126:10 incorrect 160:13 identifies 47:21 216:14 166:21167:5 121:18 increase 168:10,14 identify 23:6 120:17 170:4 171:24 84:10 150:18 increased 173:1176:12 182:5 14:10 15:24 176:19,24 Illinois 148:11 16:13 127:8 177:17 178:5 illustrate 128:20 178:9,18,21 195:19 increment 179:22 180:2 illustrates 103:14,18 181:2,21 63:17 indeed 139:5 182:10 186:3 imagine 45:13 Independence 186:17 187:8 155:8 2:4 187:19 188:1 immediately Indian 106:19 188:5,11,24 20:4 76:3 indicate 36:13 189:11196:9 impacts 19:15 203:24 205:1 196:15 197:4 116:16 216:2 218:24 199:24 impeach 225:23 201:21 202:3 23:17 98:18 indicated 202:19 impeached 88:12 208:18 21:20 117:21 indicates 26:8 212:18 indication k t 1 i J i ! ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES # TOWOLDMONOQ60749 240 200:18 interrelated 184:16 136:18 kind 80:20 77:12,21 indoor 170:13 78:9 202:16 139:18 114:14 Lane 148:11 171:9 211:19 interrupt 8:4 206:19 219:5 213:21214:1 interrupting issued 225:8 140:10 141:8 143:19 161:18,20 195:13 language 125:21 218:7,9 industrial 179:1,3 227:7 intrical 47:8 issues 16:20 147:11158:1 kinds 75:3 132:11 159:21 King 105:23 largely 110:13 59:14 61:2 introduce 62:20 84:16 137:2 61:4 66:4 119:7144:5 163:22 164:1 164:9 176:21 144:20 145:5 141:19 176:11 larger 121:13 88:19 89:17 introduced 169:18 177:20179:4 Kingdom 171:3,6 106:2 111:19 137:24 items 217:21 179:7,14 95:1497:4 173:14 175:7 134:23 introduction 186:12,18 King's 144:23 175:19 198:10,17,19 214:4 14:3 17:14 92:4 J J 105:23 187:20188:8 145:1,9,12 last 5:18 192:12,13 knew 142:14 14:16 43:10 industrialized investigations James 97:9 196:3,15 knocking 55:24 88:3 95:3 123:9 204:23 205:7 105:23 129:4 201:12,15 155:18 90:14 98:8 industry 225:21 129:17,24 jury's 36:6 know 6:22 102:2 118:3 158:11 investigators Jannetta 43:13 8:1110:18 127:19 information 203:22 196:5 197:13 just 7:23 10:23 17:23 140:21 106:24 207:16 209:5 197:20 11:1214:4 19:16 33:13 172:23 129:16 209:17 216:4 199:17 130:11,13,16 218:19 226:5 jargon 195:5 14:21 20:21 21:13 22:17 45:16 61:10 68:18 73:3 177:11190:8 198:4 201:22 193:19 investment Jim 13:23 23:18 30:10 78:13 92:15 208:20 205:24 225:4 85:13 86:3 164:15 40:15 48:9 94:22 95:7 220:12,19 informative 87:291:1 169:21170:6 49:5 54:20 104:8 109:20 late 10:6 78:13 invitation 202:24 56:17,24 118:20 latitude 87:17 informed 44:16 john 4:3 101:9 69:9 72:11 120:10 laughter 194:13 invite 181:22 " 105:22 148:6 78:24 82:20 124:12 145:23 inherent invites 176:5 148:13 85:15,24 133:10 136:6 law 14:24 54:24 inherently inviting 175:10 jJoin10s0:969:22 90:24 99:13 99:16 100:11 136:9 137:12 39:12 110:12 138:7 146:10 125:13 132:3 52:23 53:9 involve 84:18 journalistic 102:13 153:10 138:20 inhibit 63:7 88:5 90:7 " 122:15 106:22 155:16 139:13 63:13 127:7 128:19 JOYCE 2:16 107:11108:5 157:14 laws 113:3 initially 131:22 JR 1:15 108:7 115:3 162:24 LAWYER'S 140:22 141:19 Judge 19:20 124:10 134:3 166:24 179:9 230:1 initiated involved 14:7 37:1 47:22 136:2 142:7 188:6,9 lay 29:13 113:3 15:2118:22 48:9 55:14 143:22 146:1 193:12 34:23 79:11 inks 85:15 65:1105:10 77:13 149:12 194:21197:9 90:21 87:4 89:24 109:15 July 28:8 151:17,21 213:15 219:9 layer 74:17 input 222:9 153:13 June 75:23 174:11175:9 219:13 221:5 laying 40:15 226:21 219:15 140:23 176:22 knowledge leached 50:14 inside 42:23 involves 153:2 199:21 177:19 10:7,19 13:6 50:17 49:24 104:23 201:2 Junior 5:6 178:19 179:2 106:12 113:5 leak 169:10 195:16 involving 61:2 147:24 181:12 184:3 144:4 leaking 169:9 installation 153:7 171:6 juror 146:16 186:12 known 155:12 leaks 160:19 86:14 171:10 146:23 190:11 193:7 164:19 instance 96:3 173:14 jurors 227:24 192:10 knows 10:5 168:23 169:4 Institute irrelevant jury 9:24 200:10 201:6 95:23 114:3 169:13 198:2 23:14 49:6,8 19:12,14 201:14 140:13 211:14 instructions 51:14 97:5 25:6 39:6,8 202:16 Kominsky learned 106:24 98:21 39:10,16 209:10 210:3 86:11194:21 116:19 intend 118:21 isolate 184:7 43:9,20 210:20 213:3 Kominsky's least 7:9 45:12 intended isolated 59:16 44:16,22 217:11,16 6:3 45:22 49:7 167:21,23 isolating 45:23 48:10 223:9 63:6 66:11 171:4 172:19 184:21 48:15 50:22 J.F.K 1:23 L 67:9 135:13 intent 167:11 issue 8:18 54:1 57:14 lab 9:18 137:4 intentional 16:8 20:6 57:20 59:4 K 102:18 leave 65:7 160:18 26:10,14 66:19 68:4 keep 62:6 laboratory 219:8 228:1 164:18 36:9 37:6,11 71:1 73:21 65:3 81:21 6:17 111:4 leaving 94:6 interested 40:8 45:16 78:13 94:15 113:24 129:9,11 left 22:6 33:4 90:6 192:20 48:21 62:7 94:21 95:23 214:13 lack 49:12 64:23,23 interior 48:12 62:14 63:11 101:17 103:1 keeping 222:8 101:23,24 54:14 159:6 65:7 73:20 105:17 139:11 ladies 101:16 116:12 191:19 192:3 79:22 81:11 108:18 ken 2:21 83:9 LAGNESE left-hand 194:3 95:22 96:2,2 109:13 KENNETH 2:21 187:24 interpretation 96:7 98:24 113:14 114:9 2:3 laid 39:6 80:4 legal 125:17 165:13,14 99:3,9 107:2 116:8,15 KERR 3:1 222:19 legible 82:11 interpreted 137:10 156:8 134:1 135:13 Keystone 70:5 landfill 64:16 legislators 165:5 163:14 112:3 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060750 2 41 -------- length 64:22 68:6 lengths 26:5 lenient 175:12 less 17:7 100:13 162:19 171:8 174:7 175:24 177:14 let 53:12 75:14 78:13 82:16 115:1 131:3 196:8 216:12 letter 129:22 185:14 197:9 197:11199:5 199:16 202:10,13 205:14,23 206:4 209:22 letting 160:8 let's 32:20 57:22 159:9 161:16 164:8 164:9 168:18 176:9 195:24 202:9,18 204:19 215:8 level 65:12 72:16 122:2 126:2,7,15 126:22 128:13 129:1 138:11 153:21 155:13,20 156:9,10 157:23 191:16 203:3 203:8,11,14 203:18,20,24 205:2 207:21 208:11 209:23 210:6 211:16 212:10 214:23 215:3 219:11 221:7 225:20,24 226:8 levels 16:7 18:2,3 19:3 121:21 126:11,20 128:8 132:5 155:17 171:19 184:19 185:12 206:12,16 225:9 levity 76:3 79:23 Lexington 2:3 liability 61:4 Liberty 2:11 148:11 life-span 47:4 lifted 59:19 lightweight 65:24 74:20 79:17 like 7:3 10:4 14:2426:18 34:6,19 37:16 39:19 42:9 44:8 59:10 61:10 61:12 64:15 74:7 77:12 77:2078:19 98:9 100:21 107:5108:8 110:4 113:13 114:2,19 117:10 119:4 119:10 120:5 120:12 121:20 124:10 125:10 130:4 130:7,11 132:7,8,14 133:2,18,19 145:2 149:8 153:14 157:22 167:13 181:23,24 184:3,8,17 184:23 187:20,23 192:5,20 195:20 201:3 210:11 212:23 216:22 220:14 222:11,16 224:2 likewise 167:17 limit 54:15 182:3 210:24 211:4 213:8 limits 48:16 191:20 194:4 line 14:17 33:3 75:9 77:20 90:15 98:8 178:6 188:22,22 189:6 230:2 liquid 42:12 42:15,20 43:17 47:1 liquids 195:9 list 189:24 193:4 listed 191:8 191:13 listening 142:8 lists 57:17 literature 120:6 130:9 little 10:8 37:22 76:3 106:22 134:2 174:14 190:2 199:20 210:12 liver 120:7 129:6 living 119:17 201:20 LLP 2:16 located 97:1 locating 13:9 location 155:9 locations 69:10 84:20 126:12 217:7 logical 209:2 long 58:12,20 76:14 82:12 104:2155:10 181:1184:18 190:10 long-term 59:13 61:3 64:18,19 65:1,2,9,10 66:3 74:14 77:22,23 look 10:17 12:2 32:20 32:22 45:6 48:1 64:13 107:15 110:20 119:7 132:10 159:9 159:20 165:19 168:19 169:2 169:17 172:22 176:9 193:14,14 215:15 221:22 looked 42:8 107:13 119:2 120:6 210:3 looking 12:5 13:14 68:7 152:22 159:2 192:23 197:11 199:2 looks 124:10 lot 33:17 56:16 102:20 128:11 129:17,18 130:15,15,17 130:18 153:19 174:14 215:6 low 14:11 16:1,14 111:16,16,17 112:16 121:20 122:2 126:2,7,11 126:14,20,21 127:9 128:13 128:21,24 138:11 126:19 153:21 management 155:13,20 1:6 11:3,10 178:15 180:7 16:24 81:24 184:12 82:5 96:14 191:24 102:19 194:16 214:2 105:21 218:9 125:14 131:7 lower 19:17 131:13 lowest 203:2 176:11 207:21 190:20 225:20 226:8 manner 12:15 lunch 100:20 115:9 121:16 135:7,12,14 manual 69:6 135:24 136:1 manufactured 136:6 144:14 111:6 126:17 151:5 126:19 luncheon manufacturer 100:18 23:7 28:13 144:15 many 24:10 111:18 114:5 M 126:23,23 M 101:19 148:17 180:10 207:4 207:4,5,6 machine 25:16 made 8:9,14 170:19 223:21 man-made 111:1 marked 11:10 156:11 Market 3:2 13:5 99:24 112:22 114:18 116:7 153:17 157:5 210:16 55:4,8 56:3 193:6 Master 198:5 198:16,18 224:12 214:21 222:23 mastic 23:7 25:18 27:8 mainstream 96:4 maintain 28:6,11,13 29:5 35:15 38:20,21,23 65:16 maintaining 74:15 69:21 71:4 71:16 material maintenance 51:18 63:6 64:18 65:2 65:10 74:6 65:4 118:1 119:1141:23 76:17 77:22 mqjor 20:23 142:2 161:10 161:12 162:2 21:1 92:21 162:4,11,12 93:1,10 94:19,20 109:2,8 134:11 materials 5:21 6:13 33:5 84:11 matter 1:17 make 5:12 40:20 85:10 44:23 46:17 51:5 53:24 57:10 82:17 114:15 122:14 130:6 85:11,19 86:6 87:15 87:16 100:2 135:15 136:4 181:8 139:4 146:17 193:15 219:18 221:12 makes 84:24 174:5 may 8:17 9:1 12:19 17:7 19:23 42:3 49:19 91:24 97:24 101:4 101:12 making 122:23 111:17 128:7 136:13 148:1 219:15 227:4 149:14 man 126:16 157:11 171:12,18 173:7,11,22 175:17,24 189:9 197:3 197:5 201:24 207:14 216:6 220:23 221:1 221:2224:3 226:4 227:5 maybe 9:9 62:16 64:1 66:9 153:22 188:12 mcclain 2:2,3 4:5 5:11 7:19 8:2,5 9:5 10:13 11:2,6,16 13:13,19,23 14:13,19 15:13 16:4 18:1219:11 20:1,9,18 21:5,8,15 22:10 23:21 27:7 29:1 31:9,11,16 32:3,6,16,19 33:1,12 35:4 37:18 38:19 38:24 39:4 40:14 42:9 43:19 45:2 49:5 53:12 54:11,20 55:1,12,20 56:7,15 57:21 58:14 58:18,22 59:22 60:2,6 61:9,13 62:16 63:1 63:10 64:13 68:5 69:4,13 70:6,17 71:7 71:17 72:8 74:1,12,23 75:11,23 77:16 79:8 79:21 80:8 80:13 81:3 82:6,16,22 83:1,8 84:2,8 87:7,13 88:9 88:21 89:2,7 89:10,19 90:17,20 91:16,22 92:2,17 94:11 95:10 95:18,22 97:6,18 98:1 98:23 99:13 99:16 100:8 100:21 101:12,15,21 103:7,10 104:12,15 107:22 108:1 108:4,9,10 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 1 * \3Ji ) 0 ` ' . ) i 0 i .J ''...j is. < } 1 ( i ^ TOWOLDMONOQ60751 242 112:4,8,11 mean 20:12 113:12114:1 20:15 36:18 150:14,24 196:12 misleading 190:15 52:23 53:10 motion 36:5 34:7 35:13 39:17 72:17 114:15 116:5 96:4115:6 MI 2:4 83:19181:8 130:23 need 6:15 118:7,13 119:14121:6 microgram 182:8,11,14 motivated 25:9 33:8 123:7,15,23 121:11137:8 55:13 185:12 182:19 122:1126:1 34:2 40:8 124:5 125:6 198:7 204:16 194:2204:11 misread move 9:24 93:7 100:9 125:22 128:1 meaning 16:8 206:24208:2 214:10,12 14:4 50:20 100:11 131:2,4 132:3~ 212:5,10 misrecollected 61:17 62:4,9 116:10122:8 133:23 134:9 means 62:19 214:15 226:1 8:7,22 149:12,15 133:24135:3 i % 134:13,18,22 135:4,8,18 87:11119:16 226:7 120:4,14,15 micrograms misrepresent 84:22 184:4,10 202:24 150:13 170:5 188:12 136:17 137:7 121:14 52:16 54:11 missing 75:12 moved 41:15 196:16 139:19 142:9 160:17 162:7 180:13 mixed 217:5 43:20 217:19 227:2 142:18 144:8 162:15 184:18 mixing 214:14 moving 64:7 needed 33:21 144:18 164:18 191:10,17 mode 45:10 64:11149:10 40:5 49:1 145:22 201:18 194:12204:5 modes 46:9 150:7 183:9 63:1272:20 146:10 229:18 204:6 205:3 moldy 9:22 183:14 110:15 147:15,18 measure 207:18 216:4 moment 118:2 MPH 198:4 needs 80:6 148:2,19,22 113:2 218:2,6,8 130:12 196:1 224:9 96:17196:15 149:8,15 measured micron 204:4 Monday much 23:10 218:17 150:10,15,20 185:12 microns 204:2 146:17,21,22 36:11 93:13 negative 151:1,3,15 measurements microphones 146:24 99:11129:13 211:21 152:1,4,15 206:23 150:13 monitor 65:18 136:22 neither 73:16 152:20 measuring mid 174:13 monsanto 169:10 171:3 198:12,18 154:22 192:11 middle 14:16 1:13 2:13 210:20 224:15 156:15,17,19 mechanisms 14:17 33:2 19:23 105:4 212:23 Netherlands 156:22 157:4 36:16,19 36:24 48:3,7 105:9,14 must 47:10 97:10 157:7 160:12 media 92:15 64:15 83:12 131:16 208:23 never 5:15 7:1 160:15 167:3 94:8 108:23 83:13 95:9 136:23 M.D 1:2 7:11,13,15 168:10,17 110:14 112:1 127:15 137:12 138:6 224:10 7:21 44:17 169:24 meet 147:12 152:12 139:7,16 76:4,8 171:23 172:5 Megan 1:20 might 13:1 141:22 N 198:22 206:3 172:13,14 229:13 22:4 41:24 142:13,14 N 2:1 4:1 206:6,7,9 173:3 176:15 memorize 44:18 55:18 143:20,21,23 101:19,19 223:13,14 176:18,24 223:16 66:20 67:11 143:24 148:17,17 new 70:4 177:8,11,22 memory 5:22 68:2 82:7 MONTGOM... name 5:2 80:1 74:17 147:12 178:1,5,9,11 30:1146:2 90:5 97:3,5 2:15 101:8 124:7 191:15 178:21179:9 mention 12:5 113:15 month 106:8 124:17 205:10 179:17,21 80:22 200:7 120:17,19,23 months 125:24 133:4 news 92:14 180:3 181:2 mentioned 121:20 132:6 138:19 150:3 133:7 147:21 94:8 108:23 181:15,21 31:10,15 153:15 more 26:5 148:5 129:17 182:9 183:22 40:12 87:11 155:10,12 37:23 46:6 names 158:10 newspaper 186:8,24 168:20 migrate 47:7 51:19 naming 55:18 133:2 187:7,12 185:17 196:3 178:13 180:5 72:20 88:1 narrative next 20:8,11 188:1,11,18 mere 139:3 183:24 90:5 122:15 169:12 20:21 31:6 188:24 merely 20:16 mike 75:15 130:11,15 National 55:13 95:1 189:10,12 115:15 209:4 milligrams 133:2 134:2 198:1 98:2 123:12 196:13,14 met 105:16 184:18 156:18 nations 95:3 123:13 146:5 197:3,6 metal 33:16 million 73:13 170:16 123:10 147:9 150:21 200:3 201:21 meter 180:13 102:4 161:7 171:18 173:8 natural 166:24 202:8 205:19 204:2205:4 162:9,19,20 175:12 176:6 110:23 208:18 208:22 207:18 211:24 212:8 177:5 187:15 naturally 209:21 209:14 211:18 mind 43:14 189:7 193:7 111:10 212:18 212:22 213:3 213:22 214:1 76:2 118:24 217:23 nature 46:12 216:10,21 213:6,17 216:5 218:3 143:17 morning 5:7,8 140:16 217:3 214:11,16 218:7,8 205:17 7:20 101:6 neal 2:21,21 night 5:18 215:24 methods mine 122:18 101:15,17,22 6:4 10:3 195:20 216:11,17 26:11 51:12 mineral 1:8 149:17 83:6 134:7 nine 33:3 217:13,18 142:23 2:24 162:17 227:19,23 146:13 NIOSH 19:18 218:5 219:21 Mexico 162:23 MORRIS 3:1 213:12 48:7 54:13 220:7,13 191:15 minute 19:21 mortality Neal's 5:17 57:18 73:7 221:3 222:10 205:11 88:24 100:12 14:10 15:24 necessary 168:21 222:15,24 meyers 2:16 152:11 16:14 127:9 26:2,6,22 180:10 185:4 223:3 224:5 30:8,17 31:1 159:10 165:1 128:21 29:4 31:24 185:8,10 227:15,20 36:241:12 201:6 most 22:15,16 36:7 72:15 190:19 191:9 MCCRACKEN 42:3,7 45:3 minutes 43:11 95:3 114:23 79:12 191:18 192:3 2:15 50:15,20 100:23 123:9 130:7 necessity 193:9 194:3 McKay 1:20 100:5 104:9 mirarchi 1:15 130:8 163:2 27:11,15 196:1,2 229:13 142:7 150:9 5:5 147:24 180:8 185:2 197:12,24 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60752 198:22,23 210:18 225:4 occurred 9:15 oncogenic 140:12 143:7 160:19,23 199:8,12,17 numbered 22:2223:13 211:16 147:23 163:24 200:19 12:18 46:7 71:4,15 one 2:7,11 150:21 164:19,23 202:24 203:5 numbers 71:15 142:8 12:7 13:2 openings 165:3 168:19 207:16 208:4 145:17 201:8 22:10 25:12 33:17 173:6 176:10 208:11,13 148:24 occurring 31:7,21 opine 72:13 182:24 209:1,3,5,17 150:16 111:10 32:13,14 opined 41:8 185:18 207:4 212:6,19 210:21 occurs 29:11 42:1444:5 opines 46:11 207:6 209:12 216:3 218:19 numerous 162:17 45:12 47:23 opinion 18:15 others 95:24 219:11221:7 137:1139:1 October 48:1 50:11 19:15 30:24 96:6 128:4 221:14,21 223:18 224:6 51:19,22,22 31:19 33:7 217:23 222:1,3 odd 180:19 51:23 52:4 33:23,24 otherwise 225:3,5,8,14 O off 25:8 35:14 55:3,4,8,10 34:6 35:16 114:8 182:7 225:18 226:5 O 101:19 83:12,19 55:12,13 35:18 39:5,8 ought 49:2 227:6 148:17 101:23,24 56:3,20 57:9 39:13 40:4 72:9 138:3 niosh's 192:6 Oak 2:22 122:17 57:12 59:2 61:14 70:23 140:7 227:10 oath 101:11 138:16 147:2 63:19 65:9 72:22 140:9 out 19:21 22:6 none 17:21 197:2 154:7 160:21 65:20 67:13 143:5 39:6 40:15 27:4 34:11 object 20:10 160:21 72:16 73:5 opinions 43:20 49:14 34:13,17 53:1058:22 163:22 73:13 82:6 33:19 39:9 51:13 53:3 35:10 40:13 123:8,24 164:22,22 99:5 105:20 39:21 48:23 56:19 59:20 51:9 72:7 133:18 150:6 165:1,2,7,7 110:6 118:16 49:9 67:19 65:4 68:9 201:8 211:7 177:1,23 166:10,11 118:18 123:4 143:4 80:4 96:3,11 211:8 219:14 217:19 168:2,3,3,13 123:8,9,12 opposed 19:18 96:15 100:10 nonelectrical objected 23:4 178:20 123:13,14,14 161:11 162:3 106:5,13 143:8 28:11 41:13 offer 33:19 135:2 156:18 opposite 112:9 113:7 nonmanufact... obiecting 39:20 156:24 157:2 129:19 114:1116:24 48:17 54:16 28:12 134:4 offered 15:10 159:24 160:2 option 47:12 119:3 122:9 191:20 194:5 objection 15:11123:5 183:3 184:21 oral 6:8 123:12 nonsuit 36:5 19:22 26:24 offers 35:16 185:4,12,21 orally 41:15 126:13 Noonan 224:9 28:15 31:1 office 6:16 186:10,13 oranges 129:16 224:9 41:1450:18 153:15,20,23 187:11 195:21 130:16 133:1 NORTH 1:11 52:2272:24 203:23 204:6 189:14 190:5 order 73:10 133:10 134:1 Norway 95:15 81:16,20 204:24 205:9 190:13 191:8 73:11100:15 134:15 97:12,14 83:18 97:21 217:21 193:6,6 108:5 170:21 138:24 Notary 1:21 99:23 100:1 225:22 196:12 organism 139:11146:7 Note 145:22 103:4104:9 officer 147:13 198:12 119:22 146:12,15,20 noted 149:9 113:17 118:6 off-gas 86:13 202:14 organisms 151:22 notes 51:2 125:2 130:22 off-gassing 204:11 119:18 155:14,19 146:18,23 133:13 183:20 206:24 207:9 organize 164:3 175:9 230:1 136:21142:5 often 47:8 208:2 211:20 100:12 180:18 181:5 nothing 19:4 144:10 62:19 211:20,23,24 original 69:17 181:11,14 23:15 38:13 149:18 of99 75:24 212:4,5,8,8,8 102:7 184:16 44:24 51:15 151:10 Ohio 198:3 212:10 originally 190:12 56:10,12,14 154:16 oil 162:17,18 214:22 203:15 192:22 195:9 59:6 64:6,11 205:15 162:23 217:17 219:8 ornamental 197:8 206:14 66:24 69:16 217:20 okay 13:12 226:1,7,23 46:15 206:14,17 69:18,22 222:17 14:20 52:12 ones 132:16 OSHA 185:7 217:4 221:9 79:6 81:9 objections 58:24 60:8 149:4 225:5 outrageous 98:13,16 100:7 82:16 89:7,9 ongoing 61:1 other 6:13 7:6 114:9 105:6 116:24 observation 91:16 92:2 only 11:8 24:9 7:13,15 8:1 outside 30:4 117:18 129:2 18:21 98:1108:15 31:5 50:9 8:15,24 9:7,9 30:16 32:2 139:7 141:11 observations 127:21135:6 51:22 79:18 10:18,22 42:24 43:3 141:21168:2 17:14 57:4 135:8 152:13 83:19 86:2 17:7 20:23 43:22 98:19 183:17 obviously 152:19 92:11 94:12 21:9 24:15 104:18 226:19 17:4 130:14 160:11 97:16 102:4 30:5 31:14 136:15 notice 123:11 152:9 172:22 173:5 108:20 36:15 51:3,4 over 14:22 number 63:18 occupancy 206:7 207:5 109:21 53:23 81:11 47:4,22 62:2 67:10 71:18 55:21176:8 207:12 110:10 118:4 84:19 85:12 68:10 72:24 73:5 83:7 occupants 214:10 135:2 147:8 85:16 90:23 100:10 102:2 103:11 62:12 old 9:22 169:22 185:6 91:3 97:10 102:15 108:5 119:3 125:18 occupational 161:20 186:22 97:12 106:3 124:7,11,16 126:11 198:2 203:1 omitted 59:19 206:11 106:24 126:23 156:14 207:14 202:4 onto 154:3 108:12 166:23 169:2 158:10,16 225:19 226:3 once 15:4 161:12 162:4 113:24 169:17,20 159:1 177:15 occupy 73:11 34:22 38:6 171:17 114:14 171:1172:22 180:14 occur 46:5 41:11,21 173:19 119:24 136:7 175:6 180:4 193:20 66:20 68:2 139:5 141:12 open 5:4 146:11 197:24 199:2 196:10 212:18 18:17 59:13 152:16 154:3 202:18 1 ] w } \ U! dp n .j ii3 1 % j[ "1 .\ tJ , ' 1 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60753 244 212:15 215:8 179:5,7,8,14 part 34:16 125:12,19,24 113:5 114:3 1:18,19,24 215:15 181:1,23 73:1,13 126:2,7,14 114:11.20 5:3 15:1 223:16 182:4,5 83:13,14 127:7128:13 117:19 93:18 94:2,3 overblown 186:21,23 89:13 92:8 128:19 130:7 119:11,16 97:2138:20 68:20 187:9,14,21 92:23 93:8 131:7,13,22 120:5,12 139:13 overhead 46:3 189:15 94:17109:18 132:2,5 121:18 147:22 overreaction 197:16 198:4 119:22 137:5 142:20 125:16,18 218:13 96:5 199:3 200:1 123:21 142:21145:6 126:10,18 219:10221:6 overruled 202:19 159:13,15 153:7,19 128:4,6 221:15,17 I 19:23 36:4 204:21 168:11189:1 155:9 160:23 137:13 143:1 222:2,5 81:17 94:24 215:15 216:1 201:13,22 161:9 162:1 144:21154:2 224:22 99:18 103:9 218:13 230:2 202:5 163:24 160:21161:8 people 62:7 104:14118:6 pages 11:7,12 participation 164:23 165:3 161:8,11,12 63:13 68:18 125:8 150:8 11:16 12:20 102:21 167:15,24 161:24162:3 76:16,19,21 168:16 13:9 50:24 103:21 169:5 173:13 162:4,24 97:9 106:12 own 16:22 60:11,17 particular 176:11 164:6,21 112:24 128:8 43:24 65:6 79:19 82:10 26:12 119:22 189:17 165:24 129:23 95:4 116:20 82:13 83:2 122:10190:4 190:20191:3 166:17 165:16 185:15 177:13,15 190:7 191:23 191:15 192:6 178:13 180:5 175:10 183:7 Oxford 2:7 186:14,15 particularly 192:8,15,17 183:24 184:3 185:7 190:1 o'clock paid 102:15 18:16175:18 193:2,7,10 185:22 191:2 192:19 135:17 102:17,22 184:5 192:22 193:16,24 192:10 194:9 219:15 panels 35:23 parties 227:23 195:8 199:6 202:20,22 per 54:11 P 43:13,22 partly 92:10 201:2202:18 208:8 211:15 73:13 161:7 P 1:15 2:1,1 paper 26:7 94:11108:19 203:22 211:18 216:2 162:9,19,20 105:22 52:9 86:5 121:24 126:1 204:23 205:7 219:4 225:19 180:13 147:23 87:4 89:24 partner 5:17 206:12 PCDDs 185:13 PA 2:8,12,17 153:17,20 7:17 10:10 207:17 210:1 171:16 191:10,17 3:2 154:7 155:9 parts 58:15 210:15 173:18 194:1,2 page 4:1 7:2 185:21186:4 119:17120:1 215:20 225:4 PCDF 171:16 204:2,11 11:21,23 189:19 161:7 162:8 225:21 226:6 PCDFs 205:3 206:24 12:6,14,14 193:15,23 162:19,20 PCBs 16:11 173:18 207:18 208:2 13:10,20,22 papers 85:15 passage 17:6,11,21 Pen 71:20 211:18 14:14,15 91:3 115:5 151:12 21:3 23:8 197:14 213:22 214:1 22:7,11 25:8 185:18 passed 110:1 24:11 25:2,8 penetrate 216:5 218:2 25:12 33:1,2 Paradise 125:13 26:15 27:16 23:9 28:20 218:6,8 45:6 48:2,3,7 148:10 past 223:17 28:17,20 36:11 41:21 226:1,7 52:5,13 paragraph PCB 11:10 29:6,8,15 43:17 67:16 Perfect 58:11,13,21 14:16,17 14:7 15:22 30:14 33:4 80:16 164:16 59:9,24 20:11 22:8 16:23 18:23 34:12,22 penetrated perfectly 60:10,18 22:12 26:13 19:2 21:3,12 36:1,21 37:5 34:23 38:7 125:17 174:6 68:24 69:1 36:14 37:1 22:14 24:19 38:6 40:3 42:22 45:23 performed 71:19 77:13 46:22 59:21 27:6 28:4 41:9,18,21 69:24 80:19 38:16 47:11 82:17 83:5 60:23 62:18 34:18 35:1 42:22 43:17 81:6 perhaps 13:8 88:15 92:4 64:7,15 36:10 37:14 43:20 46:14 penetrating 42:16 47:7 95:2,10,11 77:16,18 38:17 45:7 49:10,17,24 30:13,15 140:23 98:3,8,9 83:13 84:4 48:4,9,13 54:22 61:15 42:15 195:12 108:13,14 85:23 87:10 51:7 57:16 61:21 62:2 penetration period 100:19 110:20,21 87:12 88:4 59:14,16 63:22 64:7 27:6 28:17 permission 112:5,7,9 88:12,15 63:3 64:16 64:11,23 29:15 30:3,6 69:8 113:7,9 89:21 92:9 66:17,21 67:15 69:23 34:12,18 permit 179:17 118:4 121:22 95:9,17 67:2,7 69:20 72:22 74:15 35:1 37:15 permitted 127:4,13,14 96:19 97:23 70:13,16 76:11,21 38:18 39:2 96:22 186:18 131:13,19 99:12 123:3 73:19,23 77:7,21 78:6 40:24 41:9 186:20 132:10,14 123:18,24 75:4,7 81:24 79:5 80:16 41:18 44:6 persistence 133:8,20 127:16,17,20 82:4 84:11 80:18 81:5 47:1 51:7 113:1 134:14,21 136:22 84:17 87:2 83:24 85:2 59:17 63:22 person 151:21 135:3 144:19 152:12,16,21 88:4,22 90:6 85:13,16 63:24 66:18 187:4 144:23 145:2 172:11 91:1 93:17 86:13 92:10 66:21 67:2,8 personal 145:4,9,11 208:21 93:22 96:13 92:21 93:1 67:22,24 131:18,20 151:19 152:5 209:21 102:11103:1 93:10 94:12 68:3 69:20 persuasive 152:10,17 212:24 103:13,17 94:18,23 70:14,16 37:23 160:3,4 213:10 105:21107:2 98:11102:6 73:19,24 pesticide 169:2,20 217:12 109:14 110:6 102:10 75:5,7 79:5 113:16 172:23 Pardon 112:22 105:18 79:14 118:15,19,23 176:11,13,20 149:21 114:13 108:19 109:1 Penn 52:11 pesticides 177:10,11,19 paren 209:1 120:16 109:21110:4 69:6 98:10 113:14 178:12,20 211:14,16 121:21,24 110:8,11,22 Pennsylvania 114:20 115:1 225:5 122:2 125:11 111:13 112:2 1:1,2,3,4,5,6 119:4,10 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60754 245 145:3 petition 140:24 Philadelphia 1:18,24 2:12 2:17 3:2 PHILIPS 1:11 phrase 212:6 phrases 211:9 physical 36:16 36:19 pick 89:9 151:22 194:15 picked 226:23 picking 89:5 picture 178:19 pictures 28:10 70:21 piece 49:15,22 Pittsburgh 2:8 place 2:11,22 31:7,14 65:8 74:16 96:9 100:10 210:23 places 68:21 plaintiff 86:24 141:14 150:2 150:4 plaintiffs 1:7 2:5,9 22:1 51:10,21 59:18 71:22 73:4 93:20 137:1141:4 plaintiff's 7:4 7:5,8,12 9:19 10:24 12:8 12:21,24 23:1,6 27:1 27:23 30:19 34:16,19 40:21 41:2 44:14 49:18 52:17 78:16 78:24 79:19 93:16 117:23 141:8 143:18 plastic 184:8 plasticizer 137:16 plasticizers 137:23 138:4 138:7 143:9 Plaza 55:4,9 56:4 193:6 please 5:6 122:24 136:17 154:21 156:20,24 198:1 222:14 pleasure 10:16 point 8:17 9:23 42:24 43:1 51:19 211:14 57:9 72:14 position 78:16 73:16 75:10 possession 9:1 75:12,13 possibility 84:24111:8 76:20 77:4 113:7 122:9 possible 155:2 123:10 171:14 128:10,11 postsale 135:12 179:1 136:23 137:3 179:16 137:9 138:21 197:23 205:6 139:11,14,20 209:10 141:6 142:3 214:21 144:3 223:15 potential 225:15 80:20111:22 227:16 112:14,19 pointed 49:14 171:12 119:3 126:13 173:12 225:9 175:9 217:4 potentially 221:9 80:15 pointing pounds 151:13 195:12 points 51:4 practical 96:11184:16 188:16 policy 53:8 practice 60:24 156:16 77:19 158:14,21 preamble 159:20 31:6 160:17 161:6 preceded 162:22 12:14 164:18 166:2 precluded 166:3 169:19 136:24 170:12 171:2 precluding 171:4,8 136:1 172:16,20 predicate 51:6 173:6,16,20 79:13 173:24 predicts 212:7 174:11,20 preexist 85:17 175:21,23 preexisting 176:2 189:21 85:7,21 203:12,13,15 86:15 203:17,20 preface 172:9 209:1,4 prefer 211:5 210:2,7,10 prefire 9:16 210:15,18 prejudicial 211:13 43:8 44:4 212:20 59:6 66:24 pollution 67:17 138:11 premise 38:2 polychlorinated preparation 158:13,20 197:17 popping 81:21 prepared popular 92:13 80:11 108:22 presence 110:13 134:1173:11 population present 28:3 214:7 34:14 62:11 populations 67:2 84:1 97:12 117:2 214:5 porosity 47:5 215:19 porous 46:23 presented portion 88:13 21:24 27:3,4 97:23 179:6 34:15 54:8 portions 17:5 67:4 80:19 53:15 59:2 86:24 215:14 107:7 115:16 presents 75:2 pose 173:11 presiding 5:6 posed 169:4 148:1 209:22 pressure 61:20 178:15 180:7 184:12 presumably 48:1154:14 191:18 194:3 presumed 162:18 pretty 104:6 prevent 64:9 previous 86:9 116:14 previously 149:6 153:9 156:12 primary 128:5 primates 13:18 14:7 15:2118:22 99:1127:6 128:18 129:7 145:8 Princess 106:19 principle 63:5 78:7 print 106:5,13 printed 172:2 prize 157:12 probably 7:17 80:9 100:14 181:1189:20 206:11 probative 43:2 problem 12:7 13:8,22 25:3 33:10 38:9 51:20,24 52:3 53:17 57:11,12 58:9,19 59:4 63:20 66:4 66:13 67:4 71:24 76:15 78:2 80:20 86:22 90:13 90:19 93:6 93:13,15,17 124:2 134:12 141:13 problematic 58:7 problems 22:2 66:20 68:2 80:15 81:5 99:2 procedure 174:23 procedures 125:15 proceed 81:11 101:12 179:17 189:9 197:5 proceedings 228:2 process 49:10 product 140:18 products 1:9 91:5 116:9 153:15 professes 137:11 professional 1:20 115:5 professionals 107:1108:13 program 131:18,20 145:11 project 69:6 103:15 190:5 191:23 219:16 projects 61:2 109:14 190:2 191:7 194:10 proofing 62:21 proper 115:20 115:21 181:9 189:7 properties 114:6 property 61:3 proposed 203:9 proposition 115:15 137:6 protecting 62:21 protection 17:10 210:1 provide 213:18 provides 173:21 199:7 public 1:4,21 49:5 92:14 94:7 108:22 198:5,16,18 224:12 225:10 publication 20:22,23 21:1115:22 publications 115:21 published 53:7 129:15 publisher 13:4 122:12 pull 181:10 purpose 40:7 51:22 143:12 purposes 15:3 78:20 98:19 163:9 176:22 put 26:10 44:14 49:20 54:3 61:16 61:16 62:1,4 62:5,5 76:21 76:24 86:12 100:14 102:2 176:23 181:9 186:15 188:14 193:19 205:13 222:14,16 224:2 puts 217:16 putting 30:11 64:1,8 219:17 P.C 2:2 p.m 144:16,17 228:3 Q qualifications 102:14 qualified 17:17,19 19:7 142:21 142:23 143:1 143:16 216:16 qualifier 127:24 130:5 qualifies 132:12 165:22 qualify 142:19 quantity 160:20 164:6 164:21 quarter 25:20 question 15:7 18:20 19:24 28:2 31:6 40:19 53:22 54:1 55:8 69:18 104:11 107:20 115:2 131:3 143:19 150:14 152:24 154:17,18 160:7 166:24 167:6 168:15 206:21 220:1 220:8,10,14 221:4 questioning 75:3,10 questions 22:4 73:22 81:4 91:17 141:18 157:14 177:4 219:24 quite 42:17 111:6 129:18 129:19 quote 13:14 14:5 32:17 66:22 83:10 83:23,24 88:14,22 89:3 108:14 108:16 109:18 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 4 % l * 4 TOWOLDMONOQ60755 246 110:21 208:19 144:14,15 215:4 95:2 99:8 remind 114:16,23 212:21,24 196:18,20,22 referring 143:7 153:14 101:10 167:1 213:4,9,10 recessed 74:11 88:2 159:11 reminded quoted 13:16 213:15 227:22 111:24 194:17 79:22,23 17:5 54:17 214:18 recitation 112:15 relating 136:4 remote 43:2 quotes 21:9 215:21 40:16 123:19 138:9 225:8 remotely 44:9 28:19 29:19 216:20,22 recognize 140:1157:23 relation removal 22:9 34:21 38:4 217:12 220:8 83:16 84:13 169:3 181:20 162:10 22:13,24 42:8 44:5 220:9,11,18 88:16 89:14 refers 85:23 relationship 25:20 26:1 107:4,12 223:16 91:15 90:11121:7 105:11 37:2 59:10 quote-unquote reader 96:13 recognizes 156:4 190:7 128:24 60:1 19:19 155:3 readership 78:7 94:16 210:14 205:11,14 remove 27:11 205:1 206:16 138:1 recollect reflects 188:9 relatively 27:12 29:18 225:23 Reader's 151:19 refresh 29:24 165:17 34:22 69:21 Q-deck 75:20 130:11 recollection 146:2 210:13 71:4,10,15 76:6 reading 32:24 5:19 6:11,20 refreshing relaxed 175:8 102:4 120:18 49:6 60:11 9:10,11 151:18 release 46:2 removed R 60:15 69:3,4 38:16 151:18 regard 8:23 160:20 163:8 25:19 28:7 R 2:1229:1 ran 163:22 77:15,19 recommend 123:4 143:17 225:6 26:6 36:4 39:11 40:1,5 164:5,20 165:6,6 179:6 removing 165:1 range 194:11 164:14 recommendat... 55:3 77:8 171:21172:4 180:11185:5 78:6 113:8 166:14 50:10,11 167:23 168:8 render 143:3 204:1 205:3 177:2187:11 190:19 191:9 116:8,10 released rendered 206:13 226:1 193:22 208:7,24 120:5 170:14 163:20 39:14 140:9 rates 14:11 16:1,15 127:10 128:21 199:24 reads 208:23 ready 100:22 reaffirmed 221:24223:6 206:21 223:9,19 regarding 225:15 35:13 70:22 recommendat... 99:1138:5 165:23 releases 126:22 137:19 161:1 143:5 reoccupancy 25:1272:6 reoccupying rather 9:22 141:1 199:7 225:8 143:5 165:10 195:8 71:24 27:22 88:6 real 19:16 recommended regardless releasing repeat 154:21 reached 188:5 93:6 131:10 192:2 207:17 214:22 76:21 repeated reaching reality 227:6 214:24 regional relevance 171:11 218:18 really 8:6 219:11 221:7 173:22 18:20,24 repeatedly reacted 96:6,8 23:24 42:18 222:3 226:6 175:17,23 21:21 26:17 16:5,17 reacts 40:2 72:9111:5 227:10 register 160:4 84:6 86:20 45:24 53:14 read 20:11 23:19 29:9 112:21119:8 recommends Registered 132:4,9 203:1,5 1:20 92:16 95:8 104:10 156:9 157:19 report 6:2,4 45:5 53:16 134:3 156:1 225:18 regular 175:8 195:17 196:2,5 53:19 54:6 156:4 163:2 reconsideration 210:12 relevancy 199:5,13 58:3,15 59:3 164:10 167:6 140:24 regulate 19:10 201:4,8 60:21 62:16 168:9 184:15 record 5:13 110:2,7 relevant 11:7 227:7 66:19 72:10 184:19,20 7:4 8:9 9:14 125:16 26:13 35:21 reporter 1:20 74:7,8 75:14 185:7 192:8 10:4 42:21 regulated 44:13 65:13 220:11,18 79:8 83:11 201:18 43:6 49:16 99:6 128:9 78:22 85:11 229:21 83:14,21 reason 12:4 49:22 70:12 regulation 91:13 94:9 represent 84:3,9 86:1 12:13 13:1 71:13 73:1,4 174:22 96:24 162:21 209:1 88:8,13,14 123:16 75:24 101:8 regulations 167:15 representation 89:1,13 137:18 144:19 149:1 95:6,14,20 relied 222:21 6:8 7:10 97:24 102:8 reasonable 149:9 220:12 95:24 96:23 relieve 78:5 representatives 1 108:18 100:18 220:19 229:7 97:3,4 110:4 rely 143:3 218:16 117:13 reasons 99:5 recorded 113:4 130:8 remain 33:5 represented 132:13,13 110:19 174:9 167:2 132:3 178:19 5:14 79:1 145:13,18 recall 7:7 30:6 redirect 86:6 regulators 227:24 reproduces 148:24 149:4 158:3 159:18 187:18 189:7 112:3 128:3 remaining 52:18 149:16 158:1 190:12 reduced 203:2 regulatory 97:22 217:15 reproduction 161:13,16 191:13 225:20 92:19 93:9 remediating 229:18 162:5 164:10 193:20 refer 42:12 108:24 24:11,15 reproductive 177:5,19 202:12,14 89:21120:24 110:16 remediation 13:18 14:6,9 179:12 180:4 223:7 132:8,11 rejected 21:2 24:13 15:20,23 t 181:22 187:5 recalled 212:13 140:21 63:24 64:1 16:13 18:21 187:21 124:12 reference relate 176:7 68:14 127:6,8 188:17 recalls 30:2 23:24 79:18 related 97:14 remember 128:18,20 189:23 31:8 83:20 119:1 103:14,18 30:12 31:21 145:8 192:20 193:5 received 5:15 193:9,12,15 121:17 71:18 76:9 request 13:4 200:4,5 7:1,15,21 references 138:17 76:22 102:14 174:11 201:12,14 9:16 124:19 83:2 139:15 178:15 180:6 113:15 requested i 204:3 205:4 recess 101:1,2 referred 183:19 192:5 134:17,18 190:15 205:16 135:12,14,16 26:20 158:9 192:6 226:19 146:3,7 199:12 135:17,24 191:2 204:20 relates 78:9 182:23 require 25:20 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60756 247 64:24171:18 173:8,22 175:17 required 22:24 29:17 29:17 173:23 199:12,15 221:1 requirements 162:21173:9 requires 64:17 77:22 129:6 research 128:12 129:6 129:9,11 reserve 182:11 reserved 5:9 reserving 179:19 residual 83:16 84:14,22 85:3 88:17 89:15 90:12 90:15 151:9 152:6 153:2 153:12,22 154:10 155:22 173:13 residuaUy 113:23 resistance 62:23 64:10 111:15 resolve 57:23 respect 9:15 10:22 41:11 226:24 respectfully 17:4 respond 199:15 responded 199:17 responsibility 64:19 65:3 65:11 77:23 78:5 responsible 161:21 responsive 168:15 rest 59:20 146:4 147:13 150:5,11,15 217:11 rested 149:20 149:22 150:3 restricted 85:24 90:24 214:4 result 126:21 195:8 resulted 14:8 15:22 16:12 59:15 127:7 128:19 195:12 resulting 22:18 160:24 165:10 168:7 171:15 173:17 results 160:20 164:5,21 166:15 203:21 204:22 205:7 215:19 216:1 217:20,24 218:24 225:21 resume 197:3 retained 120:21 reveal 84:21 review 122:13 190:8 reviewed 37:22 197:16 215:10,13 225:3 226:18 RHOADS 2:16 rid 121:2 right 11:13 37:5,9 39:4 52:21 56:7 63:9 74:23 77:14 94:21 102:2,6,10 102:16,22 103:3,16,17 103:18,22 104:7 105:22 106:3 107:2 109:15 110:19,24 111:2112:18 116:13 117:11120:2 120:9 121:3 123:15 124:8 124:17 126:3 126:16 128:4 128:15 133:5 134:10 140:15 153:5 153:10 154:24 155:23 158:14 159:3 159:6,22 161:1162:5 162:13,22 163:1,5,6 167:19 169:10 174:3 175:15,21 176:22 177:3 177:8 178:10 179:19 180:11,16 181:9,18 185:23 186:10 187:12,22 188:18 189:18 191:11,21 192:4 193:5 194:5 198:6 198:10 199:13 200:9 200:14,21 203:12204:3 206:17 207:2 207:19,23 208:5 210:3 211:8,21 212:2,9 217:2,7 218:21 219:2 224:24 226:14 227:11,19 right-hand 197:24 rise 147:20 risk 17:12 62:11128:10 174:17 175:10 203:9 208:9,15 209:11,12,20 209:22 211:17 212:9 213:19 214:6 214:23 226:20 227:3 risks 169:4 211:14 roll 66:6 room 184:21 rooms 183:15 184:24 root 171:17 173:20 rose 41:13 rough 33:16 routine 165:17,22 166:2,5 174:23 210:13 routinely 207:15 216:6 226:4 Roux 5:17,18 5:20,22 7:16 7:23 10:9 Roux's 6:7 7:17 79:24 Roy 109:9 royalties 106:15 124:19 RPR 229:13 rubs 154:7 rule 15:19 20:14 81:13 118:5 158:14 158:22 176:5 208:19 ruled 98:24 114:12117:7 117:9 138:24 139:20 140:2 140:22 141:5 144:3 187:13 ruling 141:1 182:15 run 17:1 160:21 164:22 165:2 165:7,7 166:11,23 168:3,13 running 160:21 164:21 166:10 168:2 168:3 rupture 171:15 173:18 195:2 S S 2:1,16 224:9 safe 16:6,7,9 16:17,18 18:16 19:2 19:13,19 99:10 116:12 156:9,10 157:20,23 158:7,15 203:8 210:6 210:24 211:2 211:4,8 215:2 safety 18:2 19:15 44:15 99:3 116:9 128:8 198:2 sake 16:22 sale 106:10 sales 137:13 Sam 147:12 same 8:18 11:23 12:2 20:5 43:9,23 47:23 68:22 78:2 87:15 90:11,13,18 92:5 96:6,8 98:8,23 108:4 137:5 159:24 175:6 206:22 222:22225:7 229:18 samples 5:16 5:20,24 6:1 6:13,17 7:7 7:14,16,22 7:24 8:10,16 8:23,24 9:3,6 9:10,16 102:20 155:11,15 158:18 215:11,20 sampling 38:11 73:6 218:24 San 55:17,22 Santa 191:14 194:18,23 195:4,8 204:8 205:10 saw 35:22 223:21,23 saying 8:14 28:12 37:18 64:8 89:4 115:17 122:21 212:11 says 15:20 17:6 27:20 36:945:10 46:15 48:11 48:15 50:16 54:10 59:9 60:18,19 62:17 63:2 63:11 64:14 69:19,23 73:4 75:24 76:14 77:9 77:20 114:19 115:17,18,22 120:6 125:24 126:5 127:23 130:5 133:1 143:22 145:5 158:2 159:12 161:6 162:16 164:7,15,16 170:3,11 171:5 172:18 173:5 175:21 175:23 182:12 191:17,22 193:5,12 194:1,20 197:24 201:13 202:23 203:5 204:22 206:3 206:6,7,9,24 208:14 209:16,22 210:9,24 215:18 216:23 217:4 218:13,22,23 225:12,18 schedule 146:3 194:20 Schmidt 28:12 scientific 122:14 128:12 129:9 129:11130:9 132:22 226:21 scientists 119:6 scope 43:4 44:11 screen 167:7 173:4176:23 179:15 188:15 scrupulous 139:10 seal 61:24 62:13 79:16 183:6 sealant 64:2,9 sealants 61:6 62:19 sealer 62:2 seam 50:12 season 86:11 seated 5:7 101:5 148:1 227:24 second 12:10 12:22,23 13:2 14:2 43:1 47:2 60:23 83:14 88:2 90:14 92:1122:7 193:4 Secretary 64:21 65:22 68:8 74:2 75:1,13,18 77:24 79:3 79:11197:12 197:21 224:18 section 77:15 79:9 132:24 168:23 169:4 180:23 182:19,20,22 190:6 211:13 see 12:1,20 25:4 26:18 37:16 52:14 53:1 57:22 58:8 59:12 75:1102:1 108:8 122:23 133:14 157:15 160:12 164:11179:4 179:7,14 180:24 186:19,20 187:15,20 188:8 197:15 200:2 203:3 222:13 seeing 116:1 177:13 223:8 seen 137:15 170:10 197:13 223:18 selling 143:6 sense 23:11 36:12 119:21 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES j]iI A f i | o sJ i S # ! l i< AW , i t1 1 | * i ; ;j <T"' $bjk '> J \ ! 4 TOWOLDMONOQ60757 248 132:21 200:22 201:9 210:11 sent 5:20 6:14 7:24 9:7,11 9:18 sentence 59:13,19 84:7,8 88:2,3 88:7 90:4,11 91:12,14 97:17,24 99:14,17 118:3 127:19 145:7 151:22 181:11 208:19,20 212:19 213:5 213:7,15 214:8 216:10 216:21 217:4 217:15,17 219:14 sentences 20:4 89:22 92:1 separate 80:2 80:5 separated 217:22 separating 184:24 September 141:3 sequence 134:15 sequentially 12:17 177:13 series 28:19 serve 213:13 service 109:12 132:7 services 1:3 1:23 197:22 218:14 221:16 session 101:5 149:17 197:1 set 18:2 56:22 165:15 216:23 226:22 sets 215:20 settings 84:17 88:20 89:18 seventh 199:23 several 46:9 46:16 49:14 78:21146:6 203:22 204:6 204:22 205:7 223:17 225:21 shoot 77:2 shop 132:7 short 196:18 shorthand 229:20 shortly 10:1 short-term 22:18 shot 25:7,10 25:15,16 27:18 28:10 29:1,3 31:23 32:6,9,12 33:9,21 34:3 34:7 35:13 40:6 41:1,4,5 48:21 49:1 70:20 71:3,9 71:1472:18 show 28:9 30:19,20 33:13 34:20 42:9 47:24 51:23 57:22 58:1,2159:3 66:9 68:11 90:2291:18 96:14 108:2 108:3 117:10 141:16 152:8 164:9,9 178:23 186:12 187:9 187:14 227:2 showed 25:6 37:14 showing 187:1 187:3 188:7 210:19 shown 23:8 36:10 51:10 57:19 72:2 78:21115:16 117:10 129:18 149:5 176:21 177:20 187:24 223:13 shows 49:16 49:23 58:13 70:1 side 50:12 113:18 133:14 188:13 219:8 Side-bar 113:20 118:11123:1 124:3 133:15 135:9 signal 119:6 signed 197:22 198:4,15 significant 173:14 214:6 significantly 171:6,13 silly 57:24 similar 219:17 221:11 simple 178:14 180:6 184:1 simply 34:15 51:14 112:24 141:7 226:22 since 45:4 95:4 97:1 129:14 134:7 180:24 single 49:15 143:2 sir 9:5 101:7 103:19 105:10,19 107:3 110:9 122:4 124:14 128:16 144:12153:4 162:15 169:6 185:20,24 186:11 193:10 197:1 197:19 198:8 203:4 215:17 224:14 225:13 226:11 situ 60:18 situation 29:21 54:3 55:9 87:22 117:5 151:7 166:8 167:8 173:21 194:15,18 205:12 206:2 situations 63:4 153:13 171:6 173:7 173:14 sixth 199:22 211:21 212:13 219:1 size 53:20 sketchy 128:12 skillfully 57:13 skin 207:16 216:7 226:5 skipped 123:13 skips 52:19 slide 117:10 141:16 slides 25:6 SLPCBW 215:21 216:23 small 153:18 153:21 184:19 190:6 snuck 125:1 soil 171:9 173:10 sold 106:16 122:12,22 124:7,11 solubility 111:16 112:16 soluble 121:3 solution 66:3 some 9:12 sort 141:15 11:221:9 156:4 23:2 30:2,12 sought 137:2 37:2143:2 sound 63:5 46:23 48:3 sounds 133:2 49:5 54:21 source 9:2 57:15 63:3 160:23 71:23 76:17 161:19 78:14 91:17 163:24 107:4109:14 164:24 165:3 110:16,19 193:18 111:6 113:14 sources 11:8 120:20,23 83:17,21,23 122:17 125:1 84:15,22 128:2,10 85:16 88:18 132:19 89:16,16,21 139:24 90:12,16 141:17 153:12 154:3 153:21 154:11 225:5 155:21163:9 South 2:17 168:19 so-called 169:18 176:9 37:23 162:12 185:18 space 25:18 189:16191:3 170:24 192:14 speaking 193:23 121:16 194:10 199:7 217:20 199:18 213:8 speaks 116:3 221:13 227:3 special 92:18 227:3 108:23 somebody 110:12 147:4 122:11 species 121:13 124:24 specific 39:18 199:15 40:9 132:2 someday 151:12 105:1 153:11189:5 somehow specifically 43:20 125:1 55:7 110:8 128:9 166:17 121:18 someone's 139:23 165:13 153:14 someplace 182:22 132:8 specification something 26:19 68:7 37:10 59:11 71:8 64:3 79:2 specifications 115:23 24:5 25:19 117:12 68:16,17 119:23 70:11,15 121:20 72:1,3 122:19 147:4 speculate 168:21174:2 44:17 184:8 201:13 speculation sometimes 44:24 142:12 29:10 151:8 speech 117:22 153:6 154:10 141:16 somewhere spelling 31:4 153:22 207:11 204:8 spent 223:12 soot 45:13,14 223:22 45:15,19 spewed 195:9 47:14 spill 22:18 sophisticated 42:20 53:8 17:10 62:21155:8 sorry 14:14 156:16 33:12 51:3 158:13,21 52:8 102:9 159:17,20 161:18 160:16 161:4 193:17 202:2 162:12,17 163:6,8,12 163:18,21 164:2,3,17 165:18,22 166:2,5,7 167:16 169:19 170:12,14 171:4,5 172:16,20 173:7,13 174:18,24 176:2 183:3 184:5 189:21 203:12,13,15 203:17,19 210:1,7,15 spilled 161:9 161:10,13 162:1,2,5,11 163:19 spills 42:12 62:22 64:10 84:17 88:5 88:23 90:6 133:1159:11 160:18 161:7 164:19 167:23 168:24 169:5 171:10,14,17 173:16,19 174:14 175:7 182:21 210:12 211:14 spill-related 84:23 spread 100:9 square 45:21 170:13,16,20 170:23 175:20 185:13 194:2 204:2,10,11 205:4 207:1 207:18 208:2 211:18 213:22 214:1 216:5 218:3 218:6,8 226:2,7 squared 54:13 stability 111:15 112:16 stand 91:7 93:12 117:14 140:6 145:14 180:19 182:17 standard 19:18,19 48:8,14 54:24 73:14 157:20 158:8 158:15 174:22 180:12 185:6 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60758 249 185:7 190:21 190:22 191:12 192:1 192:8,9 193:16,24 194:1,14,16 207:9 208:2 208:3,5,6 211:5,8 212:5 221:21 221:22 222:4 226:12 227:11 standards 18:2,4 19:2 48:4 52:2,20 54:21 56:22 57:8,16 157:24 174:8 174:15 175:7 175:12 176:1 176:6 189:17 189:22 190:1 190:7 191:3 191:6 192:15 192:21,23 194:9,11 209:13 210:9 213:24 214:24 215:1 217:7 standing 134:8 standpoint 46:19 stands 196:20 227:22 start 7:1 11:5 14:21155:11 155:17 188:20 started 131:15 starting 21:18 209:10 starts 83:15 92:9 state 1:7 21:11 45:6 52:9 101:7 143:21 178:13 185:14 186:1 205:23 213:23 219:18 221:2 stated 182:4 212:1 statement 39:12 116:19 116:21 132:12 180:20,21 182:18 183:12 184:2 216:14 222:7 statements 116:6,7,14 117:7 states 1:8 96:22110:3 211:15 212:19 225:2 stay 61:16,16 62:4,5 195:24 stepped 167:4 steppingstone 24:17 steps 183:2 stm 8:17 9:14 14:10 15:24 16:14 91:11 100:16 101:11 106:10 113:5 127:9 186:4 190:16 197:2 stillbirth 128:21 stipulate 179:10 stopped 143:6 stopping 227:16 stores 106:2 Street 2:17,22 3:2 stretch 196:15 stricken 31:3 50:21168:12 201:23 219:22 strict 131:18 131:20 145:10 strike 41:15 50:20 130:23 stringent 171:18 173:9 174:7 175:24 176:6 struck 41:16 structural 46:15 119:11 199:21 200:11,12,16 structure 47:8 98:11 studied 37:3 97:11 studies 17:8 18:6,8 97:7,8 129:18 206:11 study 97:13 99:1 stuff 51:20 80:10 96:17 174:17 226:23 subculture 92:20,24 93:9 94:9,18 109:1 subfloors 217:2 subject 6:11 17:15 37:4 68:19 74:3 76:6 80:11 85:10,10,19 86:5,6,19 87:15,15 100:2 115:4 127:23 136:4 137:8,22 138:1140:7 151:6152:2 162:20 181:7 195:23 219:7 subjected 110:5 subjects 14:12 16:2 56:16 78:10 127:10 128:22 substance 16:16 46:18 109:24 111:10 substantial 67:10,13 successfully 49:21 suddenly 155:14 sue 93:22 sufficient 151:23 sugar 178:8 suggest 16:15 51:17 70:13 suggested 32:11 suggesting 43:14 177:18 suggestion 47:18 suitable 111:18 Suite 2:3,7 3:2 summary 119:2 130:12 supervision 229:20 supplement 179:19 supply 106:2 support 44:3 67:6 supports 130:19 supposed 120:24 sure 61:11 76:1 82:17 89:1100:22 107:15 122:8 128:7 136:8 152:9 157:1 196:14 203:20,21 208:22 212:22 222:15 surface 22:9 22:12,17 33:17 37:2 42:23 45:12 45:13,19 47:14 71:5 73:8 160:22 162:10 163:23 164:23 165:2 168:4 175:19 185:13 190:22 203:22 204:1 204:23 205:2 205:8 208:12 213:24 225:22,24 surfaces 48:12 51:8 54:14 61:21154:3 159:6 170:13 171:10 191:19 192:4 194:3 202:19 202:20,22 207:13 211:19 213:21 214:2 214:3 216:5 216:24 218:7 218:9 225:11 226:3 surprise 106:7 surviving 14:1116:1 127:10 128:22 SUSAN 3:1 suspended 76:22 77:1,3 sustained 28:15 31:2 41:14 50:19 97:22 131:1 144:11 151:14 154:19 205:18 swing 188:21 sworn 148:14 148:21 229:6 sync 96:15 147:10 synthetic 111:9 system 114:22 140:13 143:7 systems 24:16 T T 101:19 148:17 229:1 229:1 tabbed 69:10 table 47:23 48:1 51:23 52:4,15 57:6 57:9,12,19 58:2,10 59:1 186:10,13 187:11 189:14,22 190:5,12 191:13 193:11,20 215:18 226:23 tables 56:21 tabs 69:14 tailor 100:17 take 25:8 32:20 44:20 100:13 101:1 101:23 102:3 120:20 134:2 135:15 147:1 163:14 166:14 189:13 196:17 212:15 taken 21:10 101:2 107:4 144:15 159:19 178:20 180:18 181:4 196:22 215:10,12 taking 20:24 155:11,15 158:18 163:9 talk 42:14,18 68:21 77:6 95:5,13 106:21 110:18 137:24 165:16 201:5 209:20 219:7 talked 35:8 37:20 64:20 65:21 66:14 72:19 154:12 154:23 156:8 175:13 182:24 184:16,17 185:10 199:11 202:15 talking 11:22 16:2 32:1,4 32:20 39:2 50:6 55:2 59:23 60:20 61:5 63:23 67:21 72:12 73:6 74:19 74:22 75:19 78:1,2 79:13 80:24 85:12 89:23 120:16 128:14 129:2 130:20 138:12 141:10 154:1 156:6 157:12 158:16 165:8 165:12 166:16 167:22 175:15 177:7 183:1,11,13 183:18 184:6 185:11 190:19,22 193:17 201:10 203:13,18 206:23 207:10 208:4 208:12 209:15 210:8 210:10,11 215:2 talks 16:9 24:12 27:10 27:14 29:2,6 31:22 44:5 46:12 47:16 56:17 68:23 72:16 74:13 74:14 77:8 132:24 169:8 169:18 208:15 tape 86:15 tar 114:2 target 119:22 158:17 targets 92:20 92:24 93:10 94:18 109:1 technical 132:22 133:3 techniques 24:13 56:19 63:2 technology 21:11 24:18 52:10 60:13 60:20,24 77:11,18 186:2 TEDFORD 2:21 telephone 6:9 tell 8:20 12:11 61:9 113:14 119:15 120:13 147:11 150:15 163:22 165:1 192:12,13 194:6 213:3 220:22 226:16 telling 19:12 194:7,8 tells 93:5 temperature 111:19 temporarily 63:7 * 'J 1 . ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60759 250 ten 32:13 102:24 26:2131:11 throughout 174:9 154:9,15 I 67:12 80:1,4 180:15 183:5 37:5,2238:4 45:18,20 Toxic 109:24 155:5 159:8 159:1211:20 197:17 229:8 40:19 50:1 158:10 159:2 toxicologically 173:24 211:21 212:12,13 testing 37:13 85:2211:24 55:15 63:17 211:3 78:12 80:3 thrown 114:7 toxicologist 175:16 183:23 184:2 tend 120:17 212:7 90:20 91:5 180:14 15:16 184:11,14 tended 122:14 tests 13:18 term 119:14 14:615:13 93:15 97:19 Thursday toxicology 102:8 107:13 76:1146:5 15:1117:16 185:2191:4 201:6 209:7 120:24 15:2116:3 107:18 147:5,9 17:18 19:8 219:12222:5 122:18 16:1018:14 109:19 114:8 tie 71:23 tracking 222:6 225:1 125:10 132:1 18:2219:6 121:7 122:20 tighten 170:5 22:20 229:7 153:11 27:8,13 35:9 127:15 tighter 164:16 trade 157:13 truly 62:4 155:23,24 37:20,21 133:24 time 5:9 9:12 traditional trust 27:22 156:1,2 38:16,19 138:18 20:14 41:8 135:20 try 43:19 160:17 39:19,23 146:14 76:14 93:21 training 40:1 206:16 164:17 127:6 128:18 150:12 101:3 110:3 transcript trying 24:22 200:16 129:5 145:8 151:20 111:7 113:3 6:23 79:3 53:17 71:23 201:16,19 Thank 10:1 153:15 113:21 229:17 142:11 202:13 211:2 20:1,19 163:13 164:1 118:12 123:2 transfer 61:3 155:19 terminology 21:14 89:12 164:13 167:9 124:4 129:12 transformer 195:19 122:17 106:9,9 177:15,19 130:13 132:7 1:12 169:13 206:13,14,18 200:24 108:3 118:7 179:13 133:16,19 193:7195:1 TSCA 135:5,5 terms 25:11 127:21 184:15 187:3 135:10 195:7,16 137:8 173:6 66:2 68:13 136:11142:5 188:5 191:14 136:19 200:8,13,20 173:20,24 68:23 157:22 150:24 191:24 204:5 142:15 200:23 201:1 Tuesday 184:17 211:3 156:21157:6 207:8 210:16 144:16 201:7,10,14 146:11,20,21 211:11 212:1 177:24 213:12 214:9 150:21 201:17 147:1,6,7 215:11 179:21180:1 214:20215:6 155:10,15 202:11,13 turn 108:14 terrain 14:23 189:10 202:7 220:4 227:5 174:18 transformers turned 9:17 test 14:12 224:1 227:18 190:10 84:18 88:6 TV 176:23 16:237:24 Thanks 75:17 thinks 57:14 196:23 90:7 153:8 179:15 40:9 44:1,2 their 17:11 96:17 224:19 168:22,24 two 11:8 56:9,19 70:1 39:9 59:18 third 9:20 times 45:23 169:9 31:17 35:12 127:10 93:6 95:4 47:6 127:19 49:14 171:1 translates 51:4 92:1 128:22 113:1128:5 180:10 211:20,20 112:2 104:2 126:14 tested 38:22 137:19 225:15 tiny 25:17 transportation 133:22 129:8 166:18 THOMAS 2:6 tissue 119:23 1:4 44:15 186:14 190:7 testified 16:5 174:10 2:11 title 52:18 94:4 194:23 206:11 207:3 24:2 26:4 185:14 though 39:22 53:2 159:14 trapped 183:7 type 22:14 32:8 64:21 189:21 43:24 226:22 159:16 treat 22:17 128:10 130:9 67:20 68:6 194:14 thought 12:16 titled 52:9 treated 167:21 68:15 75:18 221:10 23:22,23 202:20 114:10 173:10 176:8 148:15 themselves 90:4 102:3 today 107:8 treatise types 129:5 testify 15:10 126:18 118:15 178:7 125:17 116:20 typical 54:3 35:6,11 39:7 157:24 186:19 together treatment 170:14 66:13 124:14 221:13 200:19 202:3 164:15 60:19 92:18 typically testimony theory 46:2 thousands 174:20 108:23 120:11 1:17 15:12 thin 181:11 195:11 told 6:24 7:20 treats 115:4 211:11 17:22 19:1 thing 12:2 threat 113:6 39:10 48:10 tremendous T&S 7:15 21:22 23:3 42:14,17 119:9 48:14 55:5 129:15 8:10 18:10 24:3 25:5,14 59:298:3 threats 105:17 trenches 76:7 22:3,22 23:1 25:23,24 189:24 111:22 109:13 76:10,20 23:13 25:4 30:18,21 things 20:13 112:14,19 Tom 33:15 78:4 81:1 35:2 38:9,12 31:2,22 34:1 24:10 44:17 three 9:9 82:22 105:12 trial 1:17 42:19 43:7 34:10 35:12 78:14,17 68:20 69:13 tomorrow 136:5 44:9 70:9 35:20 38:8 105:20 106:3 104:4 172:1 219:6 227:19 tried 223:16 84:1 87:1 38:10 40:23 110:4 116:23 186:15 227:22 trouble 60:11 93:17 95:21 41:16,17 120:12 121:9 206:11 top 28:6 52:18 troughs 65:23 96:24 97:1 43:5,15 125:18 128:2 through 22:20 60:17 61:6 217:1 163:3 165:4 j 44:12 51:11 130:6 153:14 28:1 29:14 64:2 188:20 true 7:23 166:8 167:8 63:19 65:6 168:19 34:24 36:15 197:23 224:7 85:22 105:5 167:13,19 65:14,22 176:10 75:6 76:19 tom 70:8,9 109:6,9,23 168:4 169:15 66:17 67:23 183:20 100:11 tortfeasor 111:11 170:17,20 68:8 70:18 187:16 105:12,14 138:22 121:22 122:5 195:18 196:4 70:22 71:3,6 198:13 121:8,19 total 14:9 124:15,21 199:6 219:12 i! i 72:4,10,14 72:24 75:14 98:22 99:9 think 6:12,20 8:3 9:8,9,23 11:6 13:15 122:15 15:23 16:12 178:14 180:5 127:8 128:20 183:2 184:1 totally 122:16 125:5 126:6 126:9 127:2 128:22 131:5 222:4226:13 U 100:20 17:1 21:18 189:5 195:10 toward 132:4 131:16,23 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060760 251 U 207:6 54:15 191:19 V wall 43:12 56:19 80:2,5 189:22 Uh-huh 11:18 170:2 173:2 ultimately 52:20 unaware 154:4,11 uncontrolled 160:19 164:4 164:20 under 22:8,12 37:1 59:24 60:13,23 66:14 77:17 98:9 101:11 169:4 175:4 182:6 197:2 212:5 229:19 understand 194:4 ups 107:2 USA 97:2 use 53:11,14 58:7,14 59:13 60:3,7 61:6 78:19 79:24 107:1 110:2 111:6 115:20,21 118:1125:18 158:17 166:18 167:24 172:19 173:8 174:23 175:10,11 185:15 vain 80:1 value 17:24 43:2 vapor 47:2 61:19 178:15 180:7 184:12 vaporization 35:8 39:21 138:15 141:10,12 142:1 vaporize 62:10 140:10 140:11154:2 vaporizes 140:18 vaporizing 154:6 122:17 want 5:12 8:4 8:20 33:14 36:16 51:5 58:16 67:9 82:22 84:9 85:18 88:13 88:14101:23 107:14 109:18,20 114:4 129:24 138:4 139:2 139:22 146:1 151:5 156:7 156:11 164:24 165:16 174:16 178:1 wear 62:22 64:10 wearing 62:23 Wednesday 1:16,19 147:8 week 146:4,6 147:9 welcome 21:16 151:2 156:23 well 12:19 13:117:3 23:21 24:4 27:21 29:12 37:8,19 40:11 42:4 59:17 62:15 190:18,22,23 192:9,22,23 197:11 199:23 200:19 205:9 205:10 208:3 210:19 215:11 219:15 weren't 76:18 111:5 122:13 West 2:3 Weston 109:9 we'll 28:1 68:11101:1 104:24 135:6 150:21 196:17 201:5 15:17 20:18 39:3 40:14 42:11 54:9 84:6 91:22 111:5 122:8 160:10 161:23 164:2 174:12 182:14,17 185:9 206:1 194:13 201:16 206:1 206:22 209:12 211:9 212:6 221:21 used 15:2 23:16 24:18 62:19 63:12 98:18 125:10 125:16 vapors 195:10 variety 78:20 174:8 various 17:13 18:1 93:19 106:23 121:13 ventilation 178:14 180:6 183:17 184:1 182:13 189:1 189:5,13 195:22 210:23 212:15 213:4 213:9 215:9 wanted 57:10 67:1 89:13 110:7 147:10 147:10 73:2 82:19 88:11 93:14 96:20 98:18 104:20 106:17 109:11 125:23 141:4 143:14 153:11 155:6 155:24 219:7 we're 13:7 19:20 30:10 39:1 63:22 66:19 73:6 75:12 82:2 86:7 87:16 87:23 89:23 99:7 115:9 115:24 118:3 207:8 213:6 215:7 understanding 172:16 unduly 43:7 unexplainable 29:10 155:10,23 156:2 157:22 160:17 164:17 177:13 180:8 185:3,8 190:1,4,16 verify 7:18 version 12:9 122:10,11 124:9,22,24 131:10 versions 132:17 151:17 152:1 214:8 wants 20:10 40:24 41:3 52:24 59:3 60:21 80:13 81:13,15 160:23 166:10 169:1 172:17 174:4 182:9,16 184:15 185:6 185:19 188:4 203:7 212:17 118:5 134:7 135:16,23 137:23 140:19 143:9 146:3,15,20 150:12 164:14 165:7 unfirm 67:19 Unfortunately 111:20 191:7,15 193:19 194:10 versus 43:12 very 16:20 59:5 98:4 83:11,14 86:1,2 130:5 142:9 177:4 216:18 217:9 219:13 221:14,20 184:6 187:1 187:10 197:8 216:1 112:12 202:14 132:2,16 178:23 well-known we've 14:22 unintentional 203:16 209:5 147:4 165:9 187:17 119:5 45:21 54:7 160:18 164:4 209:16 216:3 164:19 218:19 222:4 unique 46:18 user 64:20 195:9 65:11 77:24 172:2 174:6 175:8 178:22 182:18 185:15,15 want 139:14 warrant 173:7 wash 133:1 went 26:4 108:5 124:20 140:1 220:5 were 6:2 8:10 55:2 65:14 78:10,21 97:6 103:24 109:19 united 1:8 uses 24:17,24 195:12 wasn't 60:2 9:7,10 18:4,9 137:15 159:2 95:14 96:22 48:19 210:17 223:6 113:16 19:3 49:17 175:1176:7 97:4 110:3 unknown 154:13 using 12:9 51:2156:18 57:11 58:2 view 6:18 78:16 86:17 93:4 109:20 125:11 129:13 water 111:16 49:20,23 68:17,20 70:10 74:16 180:14 197:13 200:24 201:9 unless 107:7 229:19 80:24 117:23 219:20 119:3 141:15 viewed 111:21 121:2 173:10 79:15 84:1 173:13 90:5 110:3 201:17 203:8 206:23 unprotected 195:6 200:24 112:13,18 waving 29:19 110:23,24 whatsoever 207:15 216:7 202:12 212:9 views 80:14 wax 85:13 111:3 113:3 42:22 226:5 usually 81:5 86:3 87:3 113:4,6 while 106:22 unrelated 43:5 211:24 utilities violent 171:15 90:1 91:2 173:17 way 8:20 117:20 124:11 115:9 145:14 227:24 untested 174:14,19 voir 15:13 43:23 96:7,8 126:18 128:9 WHITE 2:10 162:17 utility 1:5 vouch 125:20 97:19 113:8 129:7 145:13 whole 36:2,8 until 84:3 132:7 132:17 116:10 145:18 146:7 79:9 88:22 93:21111:6 U.S 2:24 vs 1:8 131:14 149:3,4 89:3 95:16 135:17 95:24 96:3 141:14 152:21154:1 137:8 143:12 144:16 154:13 182:12 96:15 121:24 W 122:19 W 2-6 125:10,12,19 wsajt 84-?. 147:12 153:24 162:8 180:24 187:3 161:12 162:4 171:16 172:17 168:23 169:12 172:20 227:22 unusually 191:24 upper 48:15 125:24 145:6 209:24 88-24 152-11 WALKER 2:15 187:21188:8 194:12 215:5 215:7 220:5 ways 45:12 173:18 174:15 177:16 183:1 187:15 184:16 187:14 188:14 189:23,24 J] ) i K'i (W FI \ ! i 5 1 ] ! AW ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60761 252 194:11195:6 229:6,8 109:12 122:3 127:5 10:15 1:20 1998 9:13 206:19 witnesses 212:24 213:9 35:1249:19 129:14 131:15,22 128:11,17 130:1,21 100 52:16 1999 28:8 171:1191:10 50:24 wide 47:24 48:18 135:21 witness's 19:1 185:1192:6 131:6,8,12 202:6 209:12 151:21 191:18 194:12204:2 2 widely 193:7 27:14 43:4 212:2219:17 185:21 204:5,9,11 2 1:16,19 203:16 167:5 221:11 190:13 196:2 205:3 206:24 135:17 widespread wonder 223:11 196:5 226:10 207:18 208:2 229:14 122:1126:2 112:22 worked W-O-O-D-Y-... 216:4218:2 2:15 144:17 126:7 128:13 Woodward 194:22 148:7 226:2,7 20,000 37:21 wild 129:8 148:6 198:22199:1 100,000 2000 1:16,19 WILLIAMS Woody workers 17:9 X 211:23 212:8 229:14 2:10 104:16,19,21 132:6 212:1 X 4:1101:19 101 4:5 21 2:22199:4 willing 134:9 136:14 214:6 225:9 148:17 10690 160:5 215 2:12,18 174:7 woodyard 4:3 working 10695 169:2 3:3 win 157:12 17:16 18:1 104:1105:5 Y 10702 171:22 221 2:3 wipe 73:8 37:19,20 workplace Yeah 21:7 10704 172:23 247-3666 2:23 215:11,20 39:11,20 63:8,14 159:13,15 10782 169:20 25 129:21 wise 170:20 42:1045:9 131:22 161:5 204:14 11 80:6 2584.1 69:6 wishes 81:12 46:1177:7 225:11 year 94:5,5 11/10/83 71:20 withdrawing 80:14 81:4 world 16:23 212:1 54:13 261-6474 2:8 60:5 93:24 101:9 51:12 97:8 years 104:3 110 52:16 27 83:5 88:15 withdrawn 101:22 126:12 187:5 106:14 113 7:3 151:19 152:5 12:1113:3 103:12 193:23 194:6 110:22111:1 118 45:6 152:18 witness 4:1 105:23 194:7,9 111:4,14 12 44:6 28 28:8 15:9,9,15 107:11 worldwide 129:14,21 129:14 284 1:2 16:5,9,17,20 108:11 122:2126:3 153:17,18 12:35 144:16 23:15 24:17 110:21115:4 126:8,21 175:6 189:20 122 22:7,11 3 26:3 27:10 118:22 122:3 128:15 129:1 223:17 123 2:17 48:2 3 92:4 108:13 28:24 29:14 122:21124:6 138:2,10 yellow 157:12 52:5,6,14 108:14 34:3,20,24 130:2 131:7 worried 61:20 Yep 135:1 124 48:2 144:19 35:5 36:17 135:19 81:2 168:9 yesterday 126 59:9,24 202:19 36:23 43:15 141:18 184:20 5:13 6:9 128 60:12,16 3rd 75:24 43:16 48:5 143:15 worth 73:22 101:24 64:14 77:11 30 153:17 49:3 51:16 144:20,22 wouldn't 77:13 212:1 54:2 57:15 145:1,4,9,12 134:16 Z 13 12:14 301 2:7 61:14 62:8 65:5 66:7 75:6 78:7,11 85:9 86:2,18 87:18,21 90:21 91:6 148:3,13,20 151:4 152:6 158:19 161:14 164:8 165:11 166:20 write 23:20 129:22 151:6 199:13 writes 61:22 written 16:21 17:2 18:17 Zero 35:10 Ziegler 9:17 186:14 197:10,23 199:3,19 68:24 133:20 134:14,21 215:19 133 102:8,9 14 216:7 15 45:22 3221.3A 156:12,15 3524 222:12 222:16 3975 2:7 96:10,11,12 98:14,20,21 99:4 101:9 107:18 114:18 115:11,12,22 116:23 117:11,18 125:4,9 127:21 167:10,17 168:18 170:9 175:13 176:10 181:16,18,22 182:3 183:23 190:9 197:7 209:8 214:18 221:4,14 223:4 26:14 34:5 45:8 65:12 66:7 68:18 78:11,15 85:9 86:19 99:4 105:18 105:21 106:23 121:23 122:20 $ $100,000 102:5,10 103:2,12,13 103:17 $250,000 102:15,22 103:20 223:12 15th 1:23 15219 2:8 158 74:12 159 74:12 16th 199:21 160 74:12 161 74:13 164 25:14 1640 3:2 18th 2:11 4 4 110:20,21 112:6,7 144:23 4,008 150:22 4:15 228:3 40 153:18 400 2:3 4006 22:13 52:11 53:9 136:11,18 137:11,21 139:3,6 Woodyard's 44:12 49:7,9 67:19 129:13 131:15 137:21139:4 0 06106 2:23 1880 1:23 4008 11:21 19102 2:12 144:19,22 19103 1:19,24 145:1,4,7,10 ' 's I 140:13 141:21 142:12,17,24 145:13,19 148:6,10 149:4,5 152:3 154:20 181:8,12 182:1,16 202:2,6 205:16 209:9 216:13 219:23 220:4 222:20 223:2 word 187:5 wording 158:6 words 94:21 119:24 125:1 163:16 164:3 164:10,24 165:7,12,20 166:6,10,13 167:5,6 172:24 work 76:17 102:18,20 103:23 140:6,14 167:7,14 185:18 189:19 197:11 224:8 wrong 57:2 152:10 204:15,17 wrote 21:10 48:6 108:12 108:19 109:3 111:23 116:18 118:22,22 1 1 69:1180:9 1.000 213:21 218:4,6 1.0 180:12 13 102:3,8 10 50:23 129:14 215:18 10th 50:5 10,000 213:24 218:8 10,702 170:1 3:2 19109 2:17 1970 137:17 143:24 1970s 139:17 1976 95:13 110:1121:24 1983 191:9 192:3 1985 189:20 1990 1:3 1994 199:21 224:7 1995 199:4 150:22,22,23 150:23,23 402 138:23 408 83:8 412 2:8 453 1:18 4900 3:2 5 5 54:10 95:2 95:10,11 98:3 113:8,9 118:4 121:22 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60762 145:2,4 171:9 191:10 191:16,17 194:1 204:10 206:24 226:1 50 161:7 162:8,19 204:2,5 205:3 211:18 500 162:19 550 170:13,16 171:9 175:20 6 6th 224:6 610 148:10 64051 2:4 67 176:12,15 177:10,16 178:12 69 50:24 7 70 50:24 138:6 700 2:22 702 170:1 709 169:23 750,000 170:22 76 126:1 772-7452 2:18 8 8 11:21,23 12:6,14 13:10,20,22 14:14,15 127:4,13,14 134:14 145:9 215:15,18 216:1 80s 174:13 816 2:4 83 194:20 836-5050 2:4 860 2:23 864-7000 2:12 9 9 131:13,19 132:10,14 145:11 218:13 9:30 227:19 227:23 90s 106:6 93 25:9,13 33:1 981-5700 3:3 996 196:9 197:14 l253 f ) J J . J ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60763