Document QgjO54EVrE42B2YQ4E7DQ1nYv

804 Annals New Yo-k Academy of Sciences children may be the victims. Should (here be a recall of all people who have worked with asbestos; if there would be recall, what could be done with them'? Dr. Seukopr You have asked the most embarrassing of alJ questions.. What we are doing is collecting information, but so fir we sre only coopting the bodies. We are going to notify, educate people concerning that which they have been exposed to in the past, but what ihey should do about it. every one of the scientists that I have been dealing with looks ni one another: What arc wc going to do? What art wc going to advise these people": Wt haven't solved that one. Miss Yuncker: What do you tell them? Dr. Seukopf: First of ell, you hare got to tell the truth, and the truth is when someone has beeneaposed inadvertently to asbestos, during the days of our ignorance, Inattention, unconcern, they were, unfortunately, exposed lo amounts that we now know can cause trouble, cause cancer, various kinds of cancer. Hov do they handle themselves? Well, this is something for the future. The medicnl profession is not yet equipped to do this. Miss Yunckex: For the tuluic---for those of ut who have not been exposed and for our children, should we ban asbestos? Dr.SeukofF: Banning is something that our country has nut done. In lurge pm. we have gone the route of controlling, and I think that asbestos can be rigorously controlled. It will be expensive, and, in some cases, so expensive it will have to be abandoned, Well, that is up to the industry. They have to have the ingenuity to do this, and if they don't, then--(shrug). MR. SpivaK: Dr. Upton, the war or, cancer which the National Cancer Institute has been directing since 1971 has been refetred loss the nation's medical Vietnam, 1 believe you are spending now about S800 million a year oh that war. Will you give us your appraisal of what has been accomplished since 1971? Dr. Upton: I think it is a most unfortunate parallel to compare the nation's waron cancer with the war on Vietnam. I don't know nnyxne who doesn't want to see as win the war on cancer. Everyone admits that it is a laudable goal, and as for accomplish ments, we are very much further along now thar. we were just a few years ago in regards loour knowledge of the causes of cancer. The meeting that is lo take place this week under the auspices of the New York Academy of Sciences will review advances in our knowledge of cause and opportunities to take preventive measures, today, thnl simply weren't available a few years ugu. * As concerns treatment, there have been remarkable advances in the treatment of cancer. MR. Spivak: Can you tell us anything about what important causes you have found? . Dr. Upton: Wc know vety much more today about asbestos. This was discussed just a moment ngo. And stnndnrds fur controlling esposurc to nsbcstns itre being reduced and made more rigorous. There are many chemicals thitt arc identified today as hazards in the workplace, hazards in .he environment. Many of them, through the work of the National Cancer Institute. These have been reflected in regulatory actions to protect the public, so I think there urc a number of things that wo arc doing new that ougur well for cancer prevention. As concerns treatment, we are able to save now about 20,000 lives h year more than wc would have saved before the Notional Cancer Act was pnssed, thanks to advance.* in treatment. These 20,000 people will enjoy about half n million productive work years, which returns lo the economy billions of dollars each year. These are real people. These are real advances. Ccrtitinly we haven't the magic bullet, but I don't think anyone in their right mind would have predicted that we would hnve ''the1' cure by this time. Mr. Mazzocchi: It is Dr. Upton's answer that frightens us, those of us who NBC's Meet the Press: Environment 805 represent people at the point of risk. Dr. Upton has said, "Well, we know a great deal about asbestos.''That is true, but the question is whala'e wt doing about asbestos and other carcinogens, and the answet is nothing t.css thaa one percrnl of the employers in our industry are in compliance with the ntbestus standard. Thtl means 99 percent of them are still Inflicting cancer upon their workers. That is a fuc: we can document. DR. Upton: When I became awnre last December of the.magnitude of the risk, the cancer risk associated with heavy asbestos exposure, through the vork of Dr SelikolT. I went directly to the Secretary oflhc Dcpnrimcnl nf Health, Education andWelfarc, Mr. Califano, and recommended that the department take a strong position in this matter, develop a departmental strategy, and that, in fact, has en:ued. So 1 eject the contention that our department has been standing pnt on this issue. MR. GREEN8ERU: Or. Kotin, given whnl wc know about the extremely dangermr. aspects of aibestos, wouldn't it be prudent simply to phase the material cut of the American economy? Dr. Kotin: It would be if it didn't serve some very useful and imporlint social needs. 1 notice that every time I cross Fifth Avenue, the cars were able to stop and not hit me, and I could go cn ond be trivial, but I won't. Mr. Greenbercj: You are talking about asbestos in brake linings? Dr. Kotin: Exactly. Asbestos has gotten where it has in the environment by virtue of the fact thnl it has met ccrtnin needs. There art responsible uses and trivial uses of asbestos. I would defer to nobody in my attacking trivial uses of asbestos. I would be equally energetic in maintaining my position that responsible uses of asbestos can be measured in terms of lives saved, in terms of trauma averted, of significant contributions to the economy, not at the cost ol lives and limbs, as has been said. Dr. SelikOFF; I agree with Dr. Kotin about ihc essential uses. Until we get a replacement for asbestos in brake linings, I see no alternative to it! use, but it that any reason not to protect the one million Americans who are working in broke repair ar.d break maintenance work? Dr. Kotin: I would agree with, Dr. SelikolT, May I make one quick comment? I would be outraged i.' I weren't amused by Mr. Mazzocchi. Hiving sent millions cf mice to their makers ih the 20-year career of using animals for testing carcinogens, lo suddenly be accused of having no faith in animal testing is something that I just can'l let go by. It is Ihc bum science related lo Ihc use ot animal tests in the generic standard. It isn't the use of animal tests in the generic standard-- MR. Orienbbrg: Dr. Kotin, arc you suggesting that if nature hadn't pul asbestos on earth, we wouldn't know how to slop curs1 Dr. KOTtN: I wouldn't know how lo answer that but 1 do know thar ond am reiterating, if it didn't meet certain needs find meet them in a way that warrants nl least the examination in relation ;o the perpetuation In commeret or not, I would be singling that out from all other agents in our environment where--and now you come to it again, the old cliche of risk/tenefu, cost/benefit, with all the hyperbole that goes with that. MR. Mazzocchi: I will agrte with Dr. Kotin, Tor a change. We cannot ban aibestos overnight, There Is sufficient in plncc lo kill millions and millions of Americans. We arc saying control it, and wc are asking industry tu support this contention. t tvas at aa international conference with Dr. SclkofT, and I believe Dr. Kotin might have been there, a World Health Organization conference, where I suggested one very simple fact, that wt label a bag of asbestos dangerous to your hcalth.it cause., cancer, and what lodoabout it when you are using it. Uniformly, industry at that conference resisted that very fundamental suggestion.