Document QM4ZeVGaqRGYmojZrzQ8Y9nnk

FILE NAME: Garlock (GAR) DATE: 2005 Oct 25 DOC#: GAR092 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Legal - Deposition of Gyan Shankar Rajhans Page 1 j I 1 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION j GYAN SHANKAR RAJHANS I 2 3 4 5 STATE OF ILLINOIS j IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE SIXTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT I 6 COUNTY OF MACON f 7 LEE DUNN and CAROL DUNN, 8 9 Plaintiffs, 10 -vs - No. 04 Lll 11 SPRINKMANN SONS CORPORATION OF ILLINOIS, et al., 12 Defendants. 13 14 15 Videotaped deposition of GYAN SHANKAR 16 17 RAJHANS, taken pursuant to Notice, in the law 18 19 offices of LIPSITZ & PONTERIO, LLC, 135 Delaware 20 21 Avenue, Suite 210, Buffalo, New York, on 22 23 October 25, 2005, commencing at 10:23 a.m., 24 25 before ANN M. SAWYER, Notary Public. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 1 2 APPEARANCES : 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 PRESENT : 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page WALKER & WYLDER, LTD., By ANDREW J. KELLY, ESQ., 207 West Jefferson, Bloomington, Illinois 61701, Appearing for the Plaintiffs. SEGAL MeCAMBRIDGE SINGER & MAHONEY, By ROBERT P. COLEMAN, ESQ., i United Plaza, 30 South 17th Street, Suite 1700, I$I Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103, Appearing for the Defendant, Garlock. O'CONNELL & ASSOCIATES, P.C., ! By SEAN P . FERGUS, ESQ., * 645 Tollgate Road, j Suite 220, j Elgin, Illinois 60123, j Appearing for the Defendant, | John Crane, Inc. | j MATTHEW W. MESSING, Videographer. 1 j jI I I I I ? Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 3 1 2 The following were marked for Identification: 3 RAJHANS EXH. 1 Notice of Videotaped 4 Discovery Deposition 5 RAJHANS EXH. 2 Curriculum Vitae 6 RAJHANS EXH. A Field Visit Report dated 7 10/20/69 8 RAJHANS EXH. B Field Visit Report dated 9 7/29/80 10 RAJHANS EXH. C Air Sampling for Asbestos 11 and Lead, Garlock Canada, LTD 12 dated 5/25/71 13 RAJHANS EXH. D Nelson Letter to Rostas 14 dated 9/9/71 15 RAJHANS EXH. E Air Sampling of Asbestos 16 Fibers dated 5/1/72 17 RAJHANS EXH. F Nelson Letter to Breckon 18 dated 6/19/72 19 RAJHANS EXH. G Memo to Tidey dated 2/21/75 20 RAJHANS EXH. H Field Visit Report dated 21 3/11/75 22 RAJHANS EXH. I Letter to Rajhans dated 23 5/30/75 24 RAJHANS EXH. J Tidey Letter to Woods dated 25 11/25/75 Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 I Page 4 j 1 I 2 RAJHANS EXH. K Air Quality Assessment f 1 3 Report dated 2/10/77 j | 4 RAJHANS EXH. L Letter to Rostas dated j 5 6/2/78 I C 6 RAJHANS EXH. M Air Quality Assessment j 7 Report dated 8/21/79 j 8 RAJHANS EXH. N Peter Pelmear Letter to I 9 Mrs. B . Golbourn date J 10 10/22/79 I | 11 RAJHANS EXH. O Rajhans Letter to Millican j J 12 dated 1/18/80 } 1 13 RAJHANS EXH. P Rajhans Letter to Rostas } 14 dated 4/30/80 \ 15 RAJHANS EXH. Q Pikk Memo to Rajhans dated j 16 10/15/80 j 17 RAJHANS EXH. R Rajhans Letter to Millican } 18 dated 7/28/81 { 19 RAJHANS EXH. 3 Photocopy of Cover of Book - j 20 Asbestos Sampling and \ 21 Analysis 5 22 23 24 25 Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 5 1 2 G Y A N S H A N K A R R A J H A N S , 4183 3 Rayfield Court, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada, 4 L4Z 1E6, after being duly called and sworn, 5 testified as follows: 6 7 THE WITNESS: You can call me mister, 8 because I am -- 9 i 10 EXAMINATION BY MR. KELLY: 11 1is 12 Q. That was going to be my first question. 13 Mr. Rajhans, you're not a doctor, are you? j 14 A. No, I'm n o t . 15 Q. Let's start, first of all, you said - 16 that your home address is in Ontario, Canada. How ; 17 long have you lived in Canada? * 18 A. Since '64. And that will be about 39, 19 38 years, something like that. I have to \ 20 calculate. I 21 Q. And -- and where were you born? 22 A. I was born in India. 23 Q. And did you live in India up until the 24 time you came to Canada? 25 A. That's right. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 6 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. Whereabouts in India did you live? 3 A. In the Province of Behar near Calcutta. 4 Q. Have you ever given a deposition 5 before? f I 6 A. No. I 7 Q. Okay. Let me explain to you sort of | I 8 the ground rules, if you will, as to how this going 1 I 9 to go about today. { 10 First of all, as can youtell, this isgoing j 11 to be videotaped. And sothere's avideographer -- j 12 Matt, in the back corner there -- and also a court ! 13 reporter that's going to type down everything you S 14 say. j 15 A . Um-hum. 16 Q. In order for us to get an accurate 17 transcript, not so much on the videotape, you need 18 to verbalize your answers out loud. Say "yes" or 19 "no" as opposed to nodding your head and saying 20 "um-hum" even though you'll be able to see that on 21 the video. 22 Second of all, if there's any question posed 23 to you that you don't understand or don't hear, 24 please ask any of the attorneys that asked the 25 question to rephrase it, and we'll try to do so. I I Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Otherwise, we'll just assume that you heard and 3 understood the question. Is that okay? Page 7 1I I 1 I 1 4 A. Okay. 1 5 Q. Good. I want to go over your \ s1 6 education. j 7 First of all, did you start your educational f 8 training in India? i I! 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And did you go to high school in India? j 11 A. Y e s . 12 Q. And then did you go to college? 13 A. Y e s . 14 Q. Where did you go to college? 15 A. That's Ranchi University in Behar 16 India. 17 Q. How do you spell Behar? i 18 A. B -- as in Bob -- E-H-A-R. \ \ 19 Q. For the record, we've already marked as i 20 Exhibit 1 the notice of videotape discovery | I 21 deposition for today. And I'll indicate for the j 22 record that the deposition is taken pursuant to the \ 23 Illinois statutes and court rules, and there's no j 24 stipulations other than the stipulation that I \ 25 believe the two Defendants have come up with, which I Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 8 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 is that an objection by one is the objection of 3 all. And that has been marked as Exhibit 1. 4 Exhibit 2 has been premarked, and that is 5 your CV. And I'm going to pass that to you, sir. 6 If you could go to the sixth page, please, 7 the part under education. 8 Can you explain to me the major and minor of 9 your educational training when you were at Ranchi 10 University in India? 11 A. The major was mining engineering. 12 And -- oh, the minor was mining engineering. 13 Sorry. 14 And major that I wrote a thesis on was dust 15 control in coal mines. 16 Q. And what was the dust at issue in the 17 coal mines? 18 A. It was mainly coal dust and some rock 19 dust causing pneumoconiosis. Should I spell it for 20 you? 21 Q. If you can, go ahead. I wouldn't even 22 try. But -- 23 A. P-N-E-M-0 -- no, yeah -- M-O-C-O nusis, 24 K-N -- I give up. I'm sorry. 25 But it's -- it's -- it's a dust-causing Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 9 J 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 disease that's called pneumoconiosis. Yeah. 3 Unless I write it out, I will not be able to -- 4 Q. What degree did you graduate from from 5 Ranchi University? 6 A. B -- Bachelor of Science in 7 engineering. 8 Q. And you completed that in 1963? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Did you go to work at all in India? 11 A. No. I just had post-graduate training 12 for one year. And that is almost like, you can 13 say, articling after bachelor's degree in law. 14 No -- there's no payment for it. You just go and 15 get the training in order to appear for some kind 16 of certification later on. 17 Q. And -- and the word you used was 18 articling, which is sort of a Canadian term for 19 practical training after you graduate from law 20 school, correct? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. And they don't necessarily have 23 anything like that in the United States, but your 24 understanding is -- is basically after you graduate 25 with the degree, you do some sort of practical Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 10 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 training, which is what you did? 3 A. That's right. 4 Q. In that one year; is that right? 5 MR. COLEMAN: Object to the form. 6 THE WITNESS: That's right. 7 BY MR. KELLY: 8 Q. The -- you came to Canada after J i 9 completing that training? j 10 A. That's right. In 1964. j 11 Q. And at that time, did you obtain j 12 employment or did you immediately go to school? > 13 A. I went straight to Queens University j 14 because of this scholarship. f 15 Q. Okay. And how was it that you received j 16 the -- the scholarship, first of all? ; | 17 A. I applied to Queens to do the masters. j 18 And one of the conditions that I put forward in my I 19 application is that I don't have the money to -- to f 20 pay for this study. And if they have any { 21 scholarship or fellowship, then only I would j 22 consider coming over to Canada and to do the ? 23 masters. \ 24 They looked at my transcripts. Andthen 1 25 they decided that I could be awarded Joseph Bateman fi 3? I Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 11 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Fellowship which would cover the cost of my 3 tuition, as well as my accommodation in Kingston, 4 which is the place of Queens University. 5 Q. Okay. And what was the area of study 6 that you did at Queens? 7 A. Critical velocities of mineral dusts. 8 Q. And was that a masters that you 9 received in engineering? 10 A. That's right. 11 Q. And that was in 1966? 12 A. That's right. 13 Q. Upon completion of your education, did 14 you go to work? 15 A. That's right. 16 Q. And where did you go to work, sir? 17 A. Federal government. Canadian federal 18 government gave me a contract job to do the 19 research in uranium mines on dust sampling 20 instruments in Elliott Lake which is near Sudbury. 21 And that's how I started my first employment. 22 Q. When you first started working for the 23 Canadian government, what was your profession, if 24 you will? 25 A. The title was research scholar -- or, Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 15 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 the workers. 3 Q. The primary goal of industrial hygiene 4 or occupational hygiene is to protect the workers 5 that are in the workplace; is that right? 6 A. Health -- 7 MR. COLEMAN: Object to the form. 8 THE WITNESS: -- health and safety of the 9 workers. 10 BY MR. KELLY: 11 Q. And over the years, you had a number of 12 different certifications as we've gone through 13 within the profession of industrial hygiene; is 14 that right? 15 A. Yes, sir. 16 Q. And have you also been a member of a 17 number of associations or trade-type organizations 18 with respect to industrial hygiene? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And -- and what are some of those? 21 A. I've been a member of American 22 Industrial Hygiene Association since late '60s, 23 early '70s. 24 But I have been a member of American 25 Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists, Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 16 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 well known as ACGIH since 1966, I think. I would 3 have to go back to my resume to -- to be sure on 4 the -- on the date. 5 And I have been a member of Occupational 6 Hygiene Association of Ontario for quite a while. 7 Again, I don't remember exact date, but I can go 8 through the resume and give you the date. 9 And then I have been also a member of 10 International Society of Indoor Air Quality. 11 Several other associations off and on I have 12 been member of, and served on their committees. 13 Q. If you turn to page 7 of your CV, among 14 these professional organizations, have you held any 15 positions on the board or as a director or anything 16 like that within any of these organizations? 17 A. Yes. One of the highlights of my 18 career was that I was the second Canadian in 19 67-year history of ACGIH to be elected as 20 vice-chair elect, and eventually became the chair 21 of ACGIH from 1995 to 1998. I served on the -- on 22 the board as vice-chair elect, vice chair, chair, 23 and then past chair. 24 I was also appointed -- well, actually 25 elected and appointed, because there's two Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 17 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 processes going on, direct -- one of the directors 3 on American Board of Industrial Hygienists, which 4 gives out the designation CIH, certified industrial 5 hygienist. I have been on their board for six 6 years, from 1998 to 1995. 7 When Canadian registration Board of 8 Occupational Hygienists which grants ROH that you 9 asked me about -- registered occupational 10 hygienist -- and when that was formed in 1988, I 11 became the secretary-treasurer. 12 And when industrial occupational hygiene -- 13 no, sorry. Let me get back. 14 When International Occupational Hygiene 15 Association was formed in Montreal in 1987, I was 16 appointed as chair of ethics committee of that 17 association. 18 And I was -- I also served as director of 19 Occupational Hygiene Association of Ontario from 20 1976 to 1978. 21 Q. Are you -- do you currently still hold 22 your CIH? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And what other certifications do you 25 currently hold, or registrations? Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 18 1 Gyan Shankar Rajbans - 10-25-05 2 A. C -- okay. I have CIH, ROH, and 3 P . Eng. 4 Q. Have you ever written any -- any -- any 5 papers or books that have been published that 6 relate to asbestos? 7 A. Yes. Several. 8 Q. And do you have any feel as you sit 9 here today for how many such writings that you've 10 actually done with respect to asbestos? 11 A. I have -- 12 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 13 THE WITNESS: About 50 -- 14 MR. COLEMAN: Can we go off the record for a 15 second? 16 (Discussion off the record at 10:41.) 17 (On the record at 10:41.) 18 MR. COLEMAN: Note my objection at this 19 juncture because we're going beyond just a general 20 background. 21 This witness was called, not as an expert, 22 but he was called as a fact witness. 23 Therefore, I object on the grounds of 24 relevancy as to what, if any, publications he may 25 have had in the arena of asbestos since this Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 g Page 19 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 individual is not being called as an expert in the 3 field of asbestos, but rather as a fact witness. 4 MR. KELLY: Well, I agree that's what the 5 disclosure says. And the relevancy is it goes to 6 foundation for what he's going to testify to later. 7 So, it's also a discovery deposition. I'm entitled 8 to ask the question, but your objection is noted 9 for the record. 10 Do you remember the question that was asked 11 to you? 12 THE WITNESS: No, please repeat it again. 13 MR. KELLY: Would you mind reading it back? 14 (The above-requested question was then read 15 by the reporter.) 16 THE WITNESS: Yes. I have done 25 papers. 17 I've written 25 papers, peer review papers, on 18 asbestos sampling, control, analysis and 19 respiratory protection for asbestos exposures. 20 Then I have written two books, reference 21 books, on asbestos as far as publications are 22 concerned. 23 But, I have been invited to various 24 organizations, associations, student bodies, 25 universities, to talk on asbestos-related subjects Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 20 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 from 1971 onwards. 3 BY MR. KELLY: 4 Q. Okay. And is -- is -- is one of the 5 books that you wrote called asbestos sampling and 6 analysis? 7 MR. COLEMAN: Same objection. 8 THE WITNESS: I am one of the co-authors, 9 yes. 10 BY MR. KELLY: 11 Q. And is this the book right here? 12 A. Yes, this is the book. 13 Q. Can you hold that up so that the camera 14 can see that? 15 MR. COLEMAN: Same objection. 16 BY MR. KELLY: 17 Q. And when -- when was that particular 18 book published? 19 A. 1981. 20 Q. Okay. You can put it back down. 21 And for the record, we've marked as 22 Exhibit 3 a copy of the cover of that particular 23 publication. 24 Have you ever received any kinds of awards 25 in health and safety? Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 21 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 i 2 A. Yes. I have received several awards. 3 And the most noticeable in those awards are 4 Amethyst Award -- yes, this is a mineral, it's I 5 based on a mineral found in Ontario, basically -- \ 6 this Amethyst Award was for outstanding civil I 7 servant in the field of occupational health and 8 safety. This award, in the field of occupational 9 health and safety, was never given before. This 10 award has been in existence for a number of years, \ I 11 but has not been given to a -- an occupational j 12 health and safety professional as a civil servant. \ 13 This was awarded, and I was very proud of that 14 because this award was given to me by the then, 15 Premier, Mike Harris. \ 16 Then I also received an award called Hugh M. < 17 Nelson Award for excellence in occupational hygiene j 18 in Ontario. And I really feel very honored about j 19 this award as well, because this award was given by ! 20 my peers. j 21 And then I was bestowedLifeAchievement 22 Award by Occupational Health andSafety Magazine, i 23 Canada. ! 24 And then in the year 2000, I was bestowed an 25 Award of Excellence for professional achievements Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 22 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 by one of the accident prevention associations of 3 Ontario called IAPA, Industrial Accident Prevention 4 Association. And this one is sponsored by 5 3M Canada. 6 Q. Upon your graduation, you said, or -- 7 from Queens University, you said you went to work 8 for the government of Ontario. And you were a 9 research scientist; is that right? 10 A. No. First I was given a contract job 11 at the federal government of Canada. 12 Once that contract job was over, then I got 13 a regular employment with the Ontario Ministry of 14 Health. 15 Q. Okay. And when -- when you say 16 Ministry of Health, is that sort of the equivalent 17 of what the United States would call the 18 Department -- the Department of Health would be the 19 Ministry of -- of Health in Canada? 20 MR. COLEMAN: Objection to form. 21 THE WITNESS: Yes. 22 BY MR. KELLY: 23 Q. And when did you first start working 24 for the -- the Ministry of Health? 25 A. July 1968. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 23 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. And were you part of a particular 3 branch of the Ministry of Health when you started 4 in July of 168? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And what was that? 7 A. It was called occupational health % 8 branch, but it kept changing its name over the 1 9 years. Sometimes it was called occupational health | j 10 protection branch. Sometimes it was called j 11 occupational health branch. But basically, it was S & i 12 occupational health branch. 13 Q. And -- and when you first started, were 14 you -- were you a dust control specialist; is that 15 your title? 16 MR. COLEMAN: Object to the form. j 17 THE WITNESS: Yes. j 18 BY MR. KELLY: I 19 Q. And -- and how long did you hold that 20 job title within the Ministry of -- of Health? 21 A. Until 1977, when the entire 22 occupational health branch or occupational health 23 protection branch was transferred to the Ontario 24 Ministry of Labour. 25 And with that transfer, I was promoted to be Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 24 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 the chief of occupational health engineering 3 service, which later on was called occupational 4 hygiene service. 5 Q. How long were you the chief of 6 occupational health and hygiene service? 7 A. For ten years. 8 Q. And so that would have been 1987, then? 9 A. That's right. 10 Q. And at that time, what position did you 11 move to? 12 A. Then I was given a job of principal 13 occupational hygiene advisor to the Ministry. 14 Q. And how long did you stay in that 15 position? 16 A. About four years before I was -- 17 MR. FERGUS: I'm sorry. Four? 18 THE WITNESS: Four. 1987 to 1991. 19 BY MR. KELLY: 20 Q. And then in 1991, what position did you 21 move to? 22 A. I was then further promoted to the job 23 of district manager of one of the biggest districts 24 of Ontario. 25 And then I became more administrative in the Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 25 f i 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 I? i 2 sense that under me there were safety inspectors, I 3 hygienists, employment standards officers, ways 4 protection clerks, all kinds of other things. 5 But I was the chief administrator of that 6 district. 7 Q. Did you hold any other positions with 8 the Ontario government other than the ones we've 9 already talked about? 10 A. No. I don't think so. 11 Q. And did you retire, ultimately, from 12 working for the Province of Ontario? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And when was that? 15 A. January 2000. 16 Q. And since January of 2000, have you had 17 any other employment? 18 A. Yes. I -- I was given a part-time 19 employment by one of the consulting companies in 20 Toronto called REA Limited -- Resource 21 Environmental Associates, Limited -- as their 22 senior scientific advisor. 23 Q. And when working for REA Limited, did 24 the work that you were doing at that time relate to 25 asbestos -- Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 26 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. -- in a 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And in 6 asbestos? 7 A. I -- 8 MR. COLEMAN: 9 THE WITNESS : -- I would review all their 10 asbestos sampling, analysis, and any other projects 11 that they were involved where asbestos removal was 12 being done. 13 BY MR. KELLY: 14 Q. Did your work with REA Limited 15 ultimately came to an end? 16 A. Yes -- 17 Q. And when did that -- 18 A. -- it did. 19 Q. -- that happen? 20 A. 2003, I think. 21 Q- 22 work? And since that time, have you done any 23 A. Yes. I formed my own consulting firm 24 called Gyan S. Rajhans and Associates, 25 Incorporated. And I did consulting work for Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 27 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 various companies. 3 Q. And as a -- basically, that work is a 4 private consultant, correct? 5 A. That's right. 6 Q. And as a private consultant, are you 7 paid on an hourly basis for your time? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And so your time is valuable in the 10 sense that you only get paid for the time that 11 you're actually working on a consulting project for 12 whatever client it may be, correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And in order for you to come here today 15 and agree to sit for a deposition here in the 16 United States, you had to take time away from your 17 consulting business, didn't you? 18 A. That's right. 19 Q. And as a result of your graciousness in 20 agreeing to sit for a deposition, my firm agreed to 21 compensate you at your regular consulting rate for 22 your time involved with this, didn't we? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And what is -- can you state for the 25 record your professional consulting rate? Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 28 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. One hundred American dollars per hour. 3 MR. KELLY: Okay. Let's take a quick break. 4 (Discussion off the record at 10:52.) 5 (On the record at 10:59.) 6 BY MR. KELLY: 7 Q. Mr. Rajhans, I want to talk to you 8 about your work with the Ontario Ministry of Health 9 and Ministry of Labour. 10 Let's start, first of all, with when you 11 first started in -- in '68 and you were a dust 12 control specialist. What were your job duties at 13 that time? 14 A. My job duties entail going and visiting 15 all the plants in Ontario which could have any kind 16 of dust exposure, including asbestos. But, silica, 17 asbestos, talc, any kind of dust exposure anywhere 18 in the plant, in any plant. I will be the one who 19 will be going around inspecting them, and following 20 it up with air sampling and then commenting on air 21 sampling results and recommending mitigating -- 22 mitigating solutions, and then following it up 23 again, those plants, to see if they installed 24 those -- those recommendations that I made, whether 25 that improved the condition or not. Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 29 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 So, I was first all by myself going around 3 the province visiting mines, construction sites, 4 industrial plants, hospitals, whatever, wherever 5 there was any potential dust exposure, I was 6 involved in. 7 Q. And -- and let me ask, first of all, 8 was this there any particularized region in Ontario 9 that you were responsible for back in '68? 10 A. No. I was responsible for the entire 11 province. 12 Q. And were there other people that worked 13 for the Ministry of Health and the environmental 14 health services branch that had the same type of 15 role as you did? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And how many other people were there? 18 A. There were two more people. One was 19 involved in chemicals, or the specialist of 20 chemicals other than dust. And the third one was 21 involved in noise control or physical agents 22 specialist. 23 Q. So there were three people that held 24 the title of P. Eng.? 25 A. They were all P. Eng. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 59 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 30 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. Okay. And that's P period, capital 3 E-N-G? 4 A. That's right. 5 Q. And what does that mean, again? 6 A. That's equivalent to PE of United 7 States, professional engineer. 8 Here in the States, they have just initials 9 PE, whereas in Ontario it is P dot E-N-G dot. 10 Q. And you said one of the -- strike that. 11 You said that your role was to go into these 12 various places, whether it be a plant or a mine or 13 what have you in order to inspect the location for 14 any dust control problems; is that right? 15 A. That's true. 16 MR. COLEMAN: Objection to form. 17 BY MR. KELLY: 18 Q. And when -- what was it that gave the 19 Ministry of Health the authority to go into these II 20 various locations? 21 A. Ministry of Health, at that time, had 22 employed these specialists to work as consultants 23 to the industrial safety officers of Ontario 24 Ministry of Labour. 25 Industrial safety officers of Ministry of Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Labour had the authority under Industrial Safety 3 Act of Ontario to enter any plant. 4 When they requested us to do the 5 investigation, they transferred that authority of 6 entering any plant to us. 7 Q. Is the Industrial Safety Act that was 8 in place in Ontario, is that sort of the rough 9 equivalent of what OSHA is in the United States? 10 A. At this time -- 11 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. Calls for a legal 12 conclusion. 13 MR. KELLY: You can answer. 14 THE WITNESS: At this time, you can say yes, 15 it i s . 16 However, Industrial Safety Act at that time jI I 17 might not have resembled the same way as OSHA now. 1 18 BY MR. KELLY: 19 Q. How far back -- well, let me ask it jII I 20 this way. When did the Industrial Safety Act first 1 ii 21 come into law in Ontario? 22 A. In 1930's, and I honestly cannot give 23 you the exact date or exact year. 24 Q. At least since the 1930's, however, the 2 5 Ontario government, the Ministry of Health through *I Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 32 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 the Ministry of Labour has had the authority to go 3 into various plants and other locations in Ontario 4 in order to do the types of inspections that you 5 did, correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 8 BY MR. KELLY: 9 Q. When you went into -- well, let me ask 10 this: How was it that you as the P. Eng. that was 11 working for the Ministry of Health, how was it that 12 you became involved? How did you learn about a 13 particular location having a -- a dust control 14 problem that required you to go there in the first 15 place? 16 A. Industrial safety officers working in 17 the Ministry of Labour had the direction or the 18 order or instruction from their director that each 19 plant must be visited quarterly to inspect 20 thoroughly to -- to recognize or at least have some 21 idea if there are health and safety problems in 22 that particular plant. 23 So, the industrial safety inspectors were 24 stationed in all parts of the province. And then, 25 if they spot anything which may have health Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 33 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 problems or hygiene problems, then they will go to 3 their director and say that they would like more 4 investigation on this. And their director, then, 5 would try to our director to ask one of our 6 specialist -- one of his specialists to go and 7 further investigate. And that's how I got 8 involved. 9 Q. Let me make sure I understand. 10 The minister -- the Ministry of Labour had 11 people called industrial safety officers, correct? 12 A. Yes, sir. 13 MR. COLEMAN: Object to the form. 14 BY MR. KELLY: 15 Q. And were they sometimes called ISO's? 16 A . That's right. 17 Q. And the ISO's were the people that 18 actually went into the plants on a quarterly basis 19 for inspection? 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. And in the event that the ISO found 22 something that they believed could be a concern for 23 health or safety or hygiene, they would call in 24 other specialists from other ministries to help 25 them with those issues? Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FEMK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 34 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 MR. COLEMAN: Object to the form. 3 THE WITNESS: Yes. 4 BY MR. KELLY: 5 Q. When the industrial -- do you have any 6 familiarity with how it was that the industrial 7 safety officers went into the various plants? Did 8 you ever accompany them? 9 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 10 THE WITNESS: Several times. 11 BY MR. KELLY: 12 Q. And in order for the industrial safety 13 officer to get into a particular plant, did they 14 have to make an appointment with the plant or did 15 they just show up? 16 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 17 THE WITNESS: They just -- they just showed 18 up because their principle was not to let the 19 companies know when they are coming. They were -- 20 these visits were always surprise visits. 21 BY MR. KELLY: 22 Q. And what was the basis for that 23 reasoning? 24 A. Because -- 25 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 35 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 THE WITNESS: -- because they thought if 3 they let them know, the place will be cleaned up 4 and they would not have the true picture of the 5 working conditions. 6 BY MR. KELLY: 7 Q. In addition to the quarterly visits 8 that the industrial safety officers made, were 9 there any other means by which the ISO's would be 10 called in or requested to actually examine or 11 investigate a particular plant or mine or other 12 location? 13 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 14 THE WITNESS: Yes. The -- sometimes the 15 unions might also ask the director of the 16 industrial safety branch to come and -- and 17 investigate if they thought something was not 18 right. 19 BY MR. KELLY: 20 Q. In addition to you and the other two 21 people that were the dust control specialists, what 22 were the titles of the other people that were 23 working for the environmental health services 24 branch in the 1968 to ' l l time period? 25 A. At that time, there was -- I will go Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 I Page 36 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 from the beginning. 3 There -- there was director. Then there was 4 chief of the service. And then there were the 5 specialists. 6 Q. And you said before that one of the 7 jobs of -- of people like yourself, when they went 8 into these plants or mines or other locations, was 9 to examine the workplace, record your observations 10 and make recommendations or solutions; is that 11 right? 12 A. Exactly. 13 Q. And when you, as the dust control 14 specialist, made a recommendation, did that have 15 the authority of law on the individual plant or -- 16 or location workplace? 17 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 18 THE WITNESS: No. Our recommendations did 19 not have the authority of law. But our 20 recommendations were made to the industrial safety 21 branch -- that's that time period we are talking 22 about -- and the industrial safety officers that 23 will issue so-called directions which would almost 24 be like citations here. And then those directions 25 became enforceable. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 37 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 BY MR. KELLY: 3 Q. Okay. So the recommendations that 4 people like yourself, if we're talking about the 5 '68 to '77 time period when the dust control 6 specialists made recommendations, those didn't have 7 actual citation authority until they were actually 8 implemented by the industrial safety officer of the 9 Ministry of Labour? 10 MR. COLEMAN: Objection to form. 11 THE WITNESS: Correct. Correct. 12 BY MR. KELLY 13 Q. When the dust control specialists were 14 requested by the Ministry of Labour to go into a 15 particular work environment, were you -- were you 16 allowed to roam freely throughout the workplace? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Did you do that on your own, or were 19 there representatives of the company always 20 present? 21 A. Company representative was always 22 present with us, because that was one of the 23 requirements that we had from our seniors: That we 24 go into the plant, ask for one of the company's 25 representatives, and we would not go to any section Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 38 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 of the plant without being accompanied by one of 3 the company's representatives. 4 Q. When you were being escorted by the 5 company representatives, were you allowed to talk 6 with the actual workers? 7 A. No. I 8 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. I 9 BY MR. KELLY: ! 10 Q. And why was that? 11 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 12 THE WITNESS: Because that was exactly how 13 our mode of practice written in -- in the branch 14 that you only contact the company representatives 1 15 and not talk to the workers. I 16 BY MR. KELLY: 17 Q. When you became chief of occupational 18 health hygiene service in January of 1977, how did I 19 your job change? 20 A. My job changed in two respects. 21 One, that I had acquired the lab 22 technicians, the hygienists, and specialists or 23 senior hygienists, they all worked for me. And all 24 their reports will not go out of the branch without 25 me reviewing them. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 39 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans -10-25-05 j 2 And secondly, I was involved on any external f I 3 committees, external to the Ministry, where any j 4 kind of hygiene policies, occupational hygiene | 5 policies, will be discussed in the province. ! 6 Q. Your job became more supervisory in J 7 nature? 8 A. Yes. Supervisory, as well as you can 9 say administrative, yes. 10 Q. After 1977, did you still have occasion 11 to go into any plants or mines or other locations 12 to actually do physical inspections and 13 investigations? 14 A. Yes. Some of the plants, if -- became 15 very complex. Complex in the sense that after 16 repeated visits, if my juniors could not resolve or 17 could not see any -- any improvement, then I will I 18 take over and visit the plant. ? ( 19 Q. In 1987 when you became principal ! 20 occupational hygiene advisor, how did your job II I i 21 duties change? 22 A. They changed drastically, in that -- 23 that I would be writing the protocols for various 24 inspectors and hygienists and others to do hygiene 25 visits at asbestos plants or brick plants or any Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-F1NK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 40 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 other plants. And -- and I became members, or at 3 least I got on the various committees which 4 developed -- which developed policies regarding 5 occupational hygiene. 6 Q. At this time, you sort of set of 7 protocols for how people should do the jobs that 8 you were doing previously back in '68 up to '77? 9 MR. COLEMAN: Objection to f o r m . 10 THE WITNESS: Yes. And I also trained them. 11 BY MR. KELLY: 12 Q. Okay. And during that time period from 13 '87 to '91, did you still ever go into plants and 14 perform investigations? 15 A. Only on the very, very special case. 16 Q. When you became district manager or, I 17 think you might have said general manager, for the 18 central region from '91 up until the time of your 19 retirement, how did your job duties change then? 20 A. They became more diversified in the 21 sense that I was not only looking for -- looking 22 after occupational health and safety, although I 23 had the construction, health and safety officers 24 under me, industrial health and safety officers 25 under me, hygienists under me, but I also had Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 41 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 employment standards officers and other people. 3 So, it became much more diversified. 4 I would say that I would spend only 40 5 percent in -- in the field of health and safety. 6 And the rest will be more administrative and 7 other -- other parts of the -- the Ministry. 8 Q. Okay. I want to go back to the time 9 period when you were a dust control specialist. 10 During the time that you were performing 11 that job, on occasions when you actually went into 12 a plant or a mine or another location, did you make 13 any written recordings of what you observed and 14 what your recommendations were? 15 A. Yes. The process was that we all carry 16 field notes, or field books, just like a police 17 officer would. It was a police officer's notebooks 18 that were given to us, empty notebooks. And we 19 will record all the observations and details that 20 we saw at that time whether it was good or bad or 21 indifferent or -- everything will be written, 22 including whom we talked to, what we observed or 23 what measurements. 24 And then we will transcribe those notes in 25 official reports as a -- first it was as a memo to Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 Ii I 2 my immediate boss, and later on it kept changing. 3 But it was always called a field visit report. 4 Q. The field visit report was something 5 that you typed up and put together after -- strike 6 that. 7 The field visit report was the document that I 8 resulted from you sort of putting together all of j 9 the notes that you made out of your -- I% | 10 MR. COLEMAN: Objection to form. f 11 BY MR. KELLY: IJ 12 Q. -- own field notebook? } I 13 A. Yes. Yes. 14 Q. And when you made those particular 15 documents, did you make the field visit reports at I 16 or soon after the time that you actually visited 17 the plant? & % 18 A. As soon as possible. 19 Q. And was it part of the protocol of the 20 Ontario Ministry of Health and later the Ministry 21 of Labour to make those field visit reports in the 22 ordinary course of its business? 23 A. That's 24 M R . COLEMAN: Objection to form. 25 THE WITNESS: -- right. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 43 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 BY MR. KELLY: 3 Q. Is it your understanding that the 4 Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Labour kept 5 copies of those various reports as part of its 6 ordinary course of business? 7 MR. COLEMAN: Objection to form. 8 THE WITNESS: They did. But how long? I 9 d o n 't know. 10 BY MR. KELLY: 11 Q. Okay. During the time that you were 12 working for the Ontario government, did you ever 13 have an opportunity to visit any plants owned 14 and/or operated by a company with the name Garlock 15 in its name? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And I want to talk, first of all, where 18 was the -- the -- the Garlock plants that you're 19 familiar with? 20 A. The most frequent visits I made to 21 the -- to one of the Garlock plants was on the 22 Jutland Road in Etobicoke, Ontario. 23 Q. And Jutland is spelled how? 24 A. J-U-T-L-A-N-D. 25 Q. And -- and that's a street in Toronto, Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 correct? Page 44 | It i I 3 A. Yes. ! i I 4 Q. Or what we call Toronto today? Il 5 A. Yeah. I 6 Q. All right. Back then, it was -- was it 7 considered Etobicoke? 8 A. Yes. It was a part of Toronto, but it 9 was called Etobicoke. 10 Q. And that's E-T-O-B-I-C-O-K-E? 11 A. C-O-K-E. 12 Q. And was there any other location of 13 Garlock that you ever visited as a representative 14 of the Ontario government? 15 A. To the best of my recollections, I 16 don't know. I don't think -- I -- I might have 17 done it. I'm not sure which other plants I did. 18 Q. Okay. Well, at least as you sit here 19 today, you recall having gone to the Jutland -- i 20 A. That's right. s 21 Q. -- location in Toronto? 22 A. That's right. 23 Q. And first of all, what was Garlock in 24 the business of -- of doing? What did they make in 25 Toronto? Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 45 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 3 THE WITNESS: Garlock made gaskets. And all 4 this plant was the manufacturing facility of 5 gaskets. 6 BY MR. KELLY: 7 Q. And when you say "gaskets," what 8 exactly do you mean? 9 A. Gasket is -- is a sealer between two 10 joints or pipe joints or anything, to -- to -- to 11 minimize the leakage of liquid flow or gas flow of 12 any kind. 13 So, the gaskets are put between two joints 14 to seal and prevent the leakage. 15 Q. And the gasket material was 16 manufactured at the plant at Jutland? 17 A. Yes. 18 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 19 BY MR. KELLY: 20 Q. Did they make any packing material at 21 Jutland? 22 MR. COLEMAN: Objection to form. 23 THE WITNESS: Not that I remember. 24 BY MR. KELLY: 25 Q. Okay. And was asbestos used as one of Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 46 | 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 ! iI 2 the so-called ingredients of the gasket material 3 that was being manufactured -- II 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. - - a t Jutland? I I 6 MR. COLEMAN: Objection to form. f 7 THE WITNESS: Yes. I) I 8 BY MR. KELLY: I 9 Q. We premarked a number of Exhibits which 10 we've marked as Rajhans A through R, and I believe 11 that they're corresponding in that binder before | 12 you, as well. } iI 13 MR. COLEMAN: Note my objection to the use j 14 of the documents. No authentication has been laid j 15 for their use. I don't know where they came from. j 16 I don't know how they arrived at this office. I It 17 don't know who made any changes to any of the | 18 documents. And basically, that's my objection. j I 19 They have not been properly authenticated at this tj 20 juncture. I 21 MR. KELLY: Okay. So your objection is that 22 there's lack of authentication at a discovery 23 disposition? 24 MR. COLEMAN: That they have not been 25 properly authentication as of this juncture to be Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 47 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 used, even at a discovery deposition. 3 I don't know who authored them, where they 4 came from, where they've been, how they may have 5 been authored, and/or even to that extent how they 6 got here. I don't know when the witness first saw 7 the documents. I know nothing of the documents. 8 That is the basis of my objection. 9 MR. KELLY: Okay. And -- and you have been 10 making a number of objections -- 11 MR. COLEMAN: Yes, I have. 12 MR. KELLY: -- so far without any basis. 13 And my question is: When did you receive 14 your license in Illinois and when -- or when were 15 you pro hoc'd into the Dunn case in Illinois? 16 MR. COLEMAN: So this is going to be a 17 pro hoc fight? 18 I have not been. 19 BY MR. KELLY: 20 Q. Do you have before you what we've 21 marked Exhibit A through R? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Okay. And you've also been provided by 24 my office more documents than what is identified 25 for the purposes of this deposition as Exhibits A Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 48 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 through R; is that right? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And would you agree with me there's 5 about 200-plus pages of documents total that 6 purport to be from the Ontario Department of Health 7 or Labour? 8 A. It appeared that way. 9 Q. Okay. And amongst those various 10 documents, some of those actually have your name on 11 them; is that correct? 12 A. That's right. 13 Q. Some of them you've actually signed; is 14 that right? 15 A. Yes. 16 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 17 BY MR. KELLY: 18 Q. Some of them you've actually authored? 19 A. Yes. 20 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 21 BY MR. KELLY: 22 Q. And in reviewing those various 23 documents, do those purport to be documents that 24 either you, yourself, made or that you, yourself 25 were carbon copied on or reviewed during your Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 49 j 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 | 2 ordinary course of work as an employee of the ( 3 Ontario Ministry of Health, and later the Ontario f 4 Ministry of Labour? | 5 A. Yes. f 6 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. } 7 THE WITNESS: That's very true. j | 8 BY MR. KELLY: i I 9 Q. Let's start with the firstone, A. | 1 10 MR. FERGUS: Do you have a Bates stamp on \ 11 that one? Exhibit A? f 12 MR. KELLY: No. But you can take those, if \ I 13 you want. f 14 MR. COLEMAN: We'll share. 15 MR. FERGUS: I've got a complete set, but I 16 these aren't Bates stamped. j 17 The copies that I have have GR-001 through f I 18 211. So I'm just trying to, for the sake of j fi. 19 housekeeping, coordinate these with theones that I j I 20 have. j 21 MR. KELLY: And -- and let me just clean } 22 that up for you, Sean. 23 What we have marked are the actual copies, i 24 pre-Bates numbering, simply because the Bates j 25 numbers were not on the copies when we received j ] Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-F1NK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 50 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 them from the Ontario government. 3 That's -- they're somewhat modified from 4 what Mr. Rajhans would recall because, of course, 5 they weren't Bates numbered at that time when he 6 made and reviewed these documents. 7 MR. FERGUS: All right. Give me a second, 8 and I'll find them with my Exhibits. 9 MR. KELLY: Why don't we take a break and 10 I'll let you do that. 11 (Discussion off the record at 11:25.) 12 (On the record at 11:33.) 13 BY MR. KELLY: 14 Q. Do you have Exhibit A in front of you? j 15 A. Yes,' I d o . i| 16 Q. And will you, first of all, describe to j 17 me what that particular document is? { 18 A. This document is Part 1 of a field s 19 visit report written by me on October 20th, 1969 as I 20 a memorandum to Dr. V.L. Tidey, chief of j 21 occupational health service. And it was on Garlock f 22 Canada -- of Canada Limited, 66 Jutland Road, 23 Toronto, Ontario. i 24 Q. And this is a document entitled field |! 25 visit report. Is this the same type of field visit j Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 51 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 report you told us about before that you make after 3 visiting a particular location? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And, again, this was the kind of 6 document that you created during the ordinary 7 course of business, and that the Ministry retained 8 during its ordinary course of -- 9 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 10 BY MR. KELLY: 11 Q. -- business, correct? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. The -- the field visit report says 14 underneath it Part 1? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. What does that signify? 17 A. This really signifies that there -- 18 there is going to be Part 2 after the sampling 19 results are available. 20 Q. And is there only a Part 1 when you 21 know there's going to be some sampling involved? 22 A. That's right. 23 Q. Okay. And where is sampling -- strike 24 that. 25 Where was sampling done in 1969 when samples Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 52 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 were actually taken by the Ontario government? 3 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 4 THE WITNESS: The sampling was done in -- in 5 this case, when we are talking about in reference 6 to this report, was taken at Garlock of Canada 7 Limited, 66 Jutland Road. 8 BY MR. KELLY: 9 Q. Okay. And that might have been a poor 10 question. Let me try it again. 11 The -- the actual samples, were those 12 samples of the air? 13 A. That's right. 14 Q. And they were samples of the air to 15 determine what content -- strike that. 16 What -- what -- what were -- what were 17 the -- the purposes of the air samples? 18 A. To determine the exposure to asbestos 19 for the workers. 20 Q. And were you, yourself, the person that 21 ever took the actual air samples when you went into 22 these various plants? 23 A. In some cases, I did. In some cases, I 24 supervised. And in some cases, the technicians and 25 I both did. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 53 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans -10-25-05 t 2 Q. Were there people that worked for the j j 3 Ontario Department of Health or Labour that simply J 4 had the job of performing dust samples? i 5 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. ! 6 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. j 7 BY MR. KELLY: j 8 Q. And after samples are obtained by those J 9 individuals, whether it be yourself or one of the j 10 technicians, where did the samples go? ,1 | 11 A. The samples went to the lab, called I 12 occupational health lab. And there, the \ 13 technicians will make the samples ready for \ 14 counting on the microscope. 15 Once the counting is finished, then they J | 16 will send the results to me if I requested the j 17 samples, and then I will comment on the results. j l 18 Q. The people that worked at the -- what | f 19 you called the -- the lab, were they employees of i 20 either the Ministry of Health or the Ministry of j 21 Labour? j 22 A. Ministry of Health at that time. j 23 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. j 24 BY MR. KELLY: ! 25 Q. And later, after the Ministry of f Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 19 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 54 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 legality was sort of consolidated into the -- 3 strike that. 4 After the environmental health services 5 branch was consolidated into the Department of 6 Labour, did those same employees become employees 7 of the Ministry of Labour? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. So all of the sampling, the actual 10 taking of the air samples, the actual analysis of 11 those samples, was done by individuals employed by 12 the government of Ontario? 13 A. Yes. 14 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 15 BY MR. KELLY: 16 Q. Let's start, first of all, with the 17 section that says -- first of all, the plant you 18 indicate was Garlock of Canada Limited, and that's 19 the location at Jutland Road; is that right? 20 A. That's right. 21 Q. And then the section for context, 22 what -- what's the reference there? 23 A. That is the company personnel whom I 24 contacted and who accompanied me during my visit. 25 Q. So, as you described before, when you Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 55 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 actually visited the Garlock plant on this 3 occasion, you went and asked for someone in 4 management, and at this time you got Mr. Rostas; is 5 that right? 6 A. That's right. 7 Q. And he was the individual that would 8 have accompanied you through the plant during your 9 inspection? 10 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 11 THE WITNESS: That's right. 12 BY MR. KELLY: 13 Q. Do you know -- well, first of all, 14 Mr. Rostas is -- it indicates on this report, was 15 the plant engineer. 16 A. That's right. 17 Q. What -- what does that mean, do you 18 know? 19 A. Well, at that time -- 20 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 21 THE WITNESS: -- he was the senior-most 22 company personnel available to accompany me. 23 BY MR. KELLY: 24 Q. And do you know -- well, strike that. 25 The next section on, sort of, the right-hand Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 56 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 side there, there's a section that says "requested 3 by." Who is Mr. Cotgreave? 4 A. Mr. Cotgreave is or was one of the 5 ISO's I talked about. 6 Q. And beside his name, it says "ISB." 7 What does that mean? 8 A. That's industrial safety branch. 9 Q. So, would he have been an employee of 10 the department -- strike that -- of the Ministry of 11 Labour? 12 A. That's right. 13 Q . And M r . Cotgreave would have been the 14 individual that would have requested your 15 invo1vement ? 16 A. That's right. 17 Q. It indicates on the next line 18 "accompanied by." What's the references there for? 19 A. That says that that particular person, 20 that is Mr. Cotgreave, the ISO, also accompanied me 21 during my visit. 22 Q. And underneath it says Mr. H.L.M. King, 23 D. of Lab. What does that mean? 24 A. That's Department of Labour. 25 Department of Labour. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 57 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 And Mr. H.L.M. King was an understudy of 3 Cotgreave before he became an ISO. 4 Q. So on this occasion, there were three 5 people from the Province of Ontario and Mr. Rostas 6 that went through the plant? 7 A. That's right. 8 Q. And the date of the visit was what? 9 A. October 17th, 1969. 10 Q. It also -- this document indicates that 11 copies were sent to certain individuals. Who were 12 those people? 13 A. Mr. Turton, at that time -- copies to 14 Mr. R. Turton -- Mr. Turton was at that time acting 15 director, if I recall correctly, and I think I do. 16 Mr. R. Turton was the acting director of the 17 industrial safety branch. 18 And Dave Moore -- Mr. Dave Moore was the 19 senior, you can say, officer at the chest disease 20 service. We used to have chest disease service. 21 And Mr. Wall was in charge of the lab. 22 Q. Tell me about the chest disease 23 service. What did they do? 24 A. We had one section in our occupational 25 health branch which was called chest disease Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 58 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 services where a mobile x-ray unit will be 3 employed, or at least -- there were several mobile 4 x-ray units available that will go to various 5 plants where there were dust exposures, and x-ray 6 the workers and keep their x-rays with them and see 7 if, on subsequent visits, those x-rays changed. 8 Chest x-rays. That's why they were called chest 9 disease services. 10 Q. Did Garlock have its own equivalent of 11 a chest disease service where they took x-rays of 12 the employees? 13 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 14 THE WITNESS: N o . 15 BY MR. KELLY: 16 Q. Do you know why? 17 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 18 THE WITNESS: I would not know why. 19 BY MR. KELLY: 20 Q. Okay. Mr. Wall was the person from the 21 lab, you indicated? 22 A. He was in charge of the lab. 23 Q. And would he have been the person on 24 this occasion that would have done the sampling? 25 A. No. He was just an -- an Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 59 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans -10-25-05 1 'I 2 administrative head. He would have technicians and j 3 scientists working for him. S 4 Q. Let's go to the body of the report. j 5 It says that the -- This visit was made at j | 6 the request of Mr. A. Cotgreave. j 7 Do you know what it was thatprompted | I 8 Cotgreave to go into the Garlock plant in the first 9 place? I 10 A. This would have been just a cyclical 11 visit, as I talked about. Every three months, all f 12 these inspectors were asked to visit the plants in 1 i 13 their area or the companies in their area. But, if 1 14 any particular plant had major problems, then they J 15 might go more often. j 16 And Mr. Cotgreave would have gone to this i 17 plant as a routine, cyclical visit, or because j 18 there was asbestos exposure, he paid more attention f 19 to it. ! 20 Q. And do you have a feel, as you sit here 21 today, as to whether or not Mr. Cotgreave's initial 22 interaction prior to you coming into the Garlock 23 plant in October 20 of 1969 was as a result of one 24 of those cyclical, quarterly visits, or as a result 25 of major problems that -- Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 60 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 3 BY MR. KELLY: 4 Q. -- had been noted at Garlock. 5 A. It could have been both. 6 Q. You don't know one way -- 7 A. No. 8 Q. - - o r the other 9 A . I d o n 't . 10 Q. - - a s you sit here today? 11 A. Yes. I don't. I 12 Q. Okay. Regardless, Mr. Cotgreave 13 requested -- well, strike that. 14 Let me ask it this way. ; 15 Do you have a recollection as to why you I 16 became involved in visiting the plant on 17 October 17, 1969? 18 A. Mr. Cotgreave requested me. 19 Q. And what was it that caused 20 Mr. Cotgreave to request a -- your expertise? I 21 A. Because he thought the plant had 22 asbestos exposure, and because of my expertise in 23 asbestos, he would have liked me to see it. 24 M R . COLEMAN : Objection. II 25 BY MR. KELLY: Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 61 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. And the second paragraph indicates that 3 during the visit, you observed some braiding 4 machines. What are braiding machines? 5 A. Braiding machines are the machines 6 where twines of asbestos or yarns of asbestos are 7 intertwined in -- in -- in order to make a braid, 8 braided-type of cable. 9 So, they -- they -- the various twines will 10 be intertwined on this machine to make it a 11 braider. 12 Q. And the purpose of that is to, sort of, { 13 create a -- a matrix of material that ultimately 14 becomes the gasket material? 15 A. That's right. 16 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. f 17 MR. KELLY: You can answer. | 18 THE WITNESS: That's right. I 19 BY MR. KELLY: S 20 Q. And was one of the materials used in 21 the braiding process asbestos? 22 A. That's right. 23 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 24 BY MR. KELLY: 25 Q. Did the Garlock plant, in Jutland or -- Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 62 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 or on Jutland, use any other materials other than 3 asbestos in the braiding process? 4 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 5 THE WITNESS: They used, to the best of my 6 recollection, at times, they used jute, hemp and 7 cotton. f 8 BY MR. KELLY: S 9 Q. And if you had to quantify what was | I 10 used the most of the various things -- jute, hemp, j | 11 cotton and asbestos -- what was the primary S i| 12 braiding material used by Garlock? j | 13 A. Asbestos. j 14 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. \ 15 THE WITNESS: Asbestos. j I 16 BY MR. KELLY: \ | 17 Q. Are you familiar with the fact there j I 18 are different fiber types of asbestos? I 19 A. Yes, I am. j 20 Q. And -- and what are the -- the 21 different fiber types -- f 22 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 23 BY MR. KELLY: 24 Q. -- that you're familiar with? 25 MR. COLEMAN: Calls for expert testimony. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 63 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 THE WITNESS: There are three basic types of 3 asbestos. 4 In the layman's term, you can say white, 5 brown and blue. 6 White is mineralogically called chrysotile. 7 The brown is called amosite, A-M-0 -- okay. 8 And the blue is called crocidolite. 9 Crocidolite. 10 And -- and these are the three main types of 11 asbestos. 12 But then there are several other varieties 13 which contain more than 50 percent asbestos. But I 14 just gave you three main types. 15 BY MR. KELLY: 16 Q. And of the three types that you gave 17 me, are those the ones primarily used in indus -- 18 in industry? 19 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 20 THE WITNESS: The white and blue were 21 primarily used. Not the brown, as -- as much. 22 BY MR. KELLY: 23 Q. Okay. And did Garlock use different 24 fiber types, or did it just use one? 25 A . No -- Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 64 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 3 THE WITNESS: -- they used white and blue 4 quite often. 5 BY MR. KELLY: 6 Q. And that would have been the chrysotile 7 and the crocidolite? 8 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 9 THE WITNESS: That's right. 10 BY MR. KELLY: 11 Q. You also indicated that you observed a 12 sheet room when you were at Garlock. What's the 13 sheet room? 14 A. The sheet room -- 15 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 16 THE WITNESS: -- is when the material 17 crushed by hammer nail -- hammer mill is taken 18 between two calendars -- now let me explain what 19 these are. These are the heated rolls, the 20 rollers, you can say, where the material is passed 21 through to make a sheet from which the gaskets are 22 stamped out. 23 So the sheeter room is where the 24 sheet-making machines are. 25 BY M R . KELLY: Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 65 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. Okay. You use the term "hammer mill." 3 What's the hammer mill? 4 A. Hammer mill is where loose asbestos 5 materials or asbestos-containing materials are 6 crushed and cut by using a -- compressed air 7 hammers and shredded, and make -- and are made 8 pliable so that they can be then used to make 9 sheets and braidings. 10 Q. How big was the Jutland Road location 11 of Garlock in Toronto? 12 A. If I could, to the best of my 13 recollection, it -- it was quite big. And 14 I -- I -- I am sorry, I can not give you the -- the 15 square feet of that -- I might have written it in 16 some report, but I don't recall the square feet of 17 that plant. 18 Q. Was it as big as a football field? 19 MR. COLEMAN: Objection to form. 20 THE WITNESS: Yes. Yes. Yes. It was quite 21 b i g . 22 BY MR. KELLY: 23 Q. Was it bigger than that? 24 A. No. 25 Q . Okay. Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 66 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. I would not think so. 3 Q. Was it multiple floors? Or was it just 4 a single level? 5 A. If I recall correctly, it was a sing -- 6 correctly -- if I recall correctly, it was one 7 level. 8 Q. And was asbestos, raw asbestos, 9 received at a particular part of the plant? 10 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 11 THE WITNESS: Yes. 12 BY MR. KELLY: 13 Q. And where -- whereabouts was that, with 14 respect to the other -- 15 A . They -- 16 Q. -- machines and things of that nature 17 going on in the manufacturing area? 18 A. They had a place called receiving room 19 where they would receive loose asbestos. Loose 20 asbestos, you can say, in -- in bundles or in 21 containers. 22 And that receiving room was close to the 23 hammer mill. So from there, sometimes manually 24 they transferred those loose asbestos fibers to the 25 hammer m i l l . Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 67 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Later on, they came up with the device where j f 3 it could be air conveyed to the hammer mill. But I 1 4 have seen both. j 5 Q. Okay. So at least with respect to the I 6 actual receiving of -- of asbestos at Garlock, they 7 had an area where the receiving was done, right? 8 A. That's right. 9 MR. COLEMAN: Objection to form. \ 10 BY MR. KELLY: ! 11 Q. And did you ever get a feel for how the 12 asbestos arrived at the plant? Was it by rail? Or 13 by truck? Or anything like that? 14 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 15 THE WITNESS: I -- I can't tell you how they 16 arriyed. The only -- I never saw any -- any rail 17 cars or anything coming and dumping it, no. 18 BY MR. KELLY: 19 Q. Now, regardless, you did see it in j 20 bundles and also in -- in cartons? j 21 A. That's right. 22 Q. And this was raw asbestos fiber? 1 23 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 24 THE WITNESS: That's right. 25 BY MR. KELLY: ' Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 68 f 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 II 2 Q. And -- and it was both the white 3 chrysotile and the blue crocidolite? 4 A. That's right. 5 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 6 BY MR. KELLY: 7 Q. Now, you indicated that after the raw 8 fiber was received, it was sent to the hammer mill 9 area? 10 A. That's right. 11 Q. And what was it they actually did in j 12 the hammer mill area with this raw asbestos? Ii 13 A. They crushed -- 14 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 15 THE WITNESS: -- they -- they cut, they 16 crushed, they -- they shredded it before they were 17 sent to the braiders or -- no. They were sent to 18 the mixing room. And then from there, to the 19 sheeting room or braider. 20 I'm sorry, at this time, I cannot tell you 21 exact sequence. I don't recall exact sequence. 22 But that's how it happened. 1 23 BY MR. KELLY: 24 Q. Regardless, the raw asbestos would be 25 milled into some sort of form whereby it could be Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 69 i 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans -10-25-05 } 2 braided and used in the -- the -- i | 3 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. j 4 BY MR. KELLY: I 5 Q. -- final Garlock gasket material? j 6 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. j 7 THE WITNESS: That's right. 5 8 BY MR. KELLY: j 9 Q. During your visit on October 17th, } % 10 1969, did you find that -- well, tell me what you \ I 11 found with respect to this visit. ; 12 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. : 13 Are you asking him to read from that ' 14 document? Or are you asking him what he 15 specifically recalls from his own recollection? * 16 I wasn't sure what you meant by the J 17 question. 5 18 BY MR. KELLY: J 19 Q. Did you understand the question? I 20 A. I did understand the question. I 21 Q . Okay. | 22 A. And I think I could use my memory, j 23 also. But -- j 24 Q. Based on both your memory and the { 25 document -- ! Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 9 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 ' - I Page 70 f 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. And the document -- 3 Q. - - i n front of you? * 4 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. j 5 THE WITNESS: -- helps me to bring back my J 6 memory. To revive my memory. I -- I will admit * I 7 that. I 8 BY MR. KELLY: 9 Q. Okay. Well, feel free to use the 10 document to refresh your memory. But tell me 11 everything you remember about that visit. i 12 A. Well, during that visit, as -- as the 13 report says, and I -- I can visualize, I can 14 remember this, the braiding machines and the sheet 15 room were checked. 16 And what was amazing to both Mr. Cotgreave, 17 the industrial safety officer, and myself, that 18 South African Blue asbestos, crocidolite, was again 19 found in the -- at one of the braiding machines 20 which was not fitted with ventilation or local 21 exhaust. 22 Q. And let me ask you, first of all, you i 23 said that South African Blue crocidolite was, j 24 again, found to be in use at the plant. f i 25 A. Yes. ! Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 71 j 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. Why was that a surprise to you? 3 A. Because -- 4 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. I 5 THE WITNESS: -- because we were told in 6 previous visits that they will not use South I 7 African Blue asbestos unless the machine is 8 adequately exhausted. So, this is we are talking 9 about in 1969. 10 BY ATTORNEY FIVE: 11 Q. So prior to your visit on October 17 of 12 1969, had Garlock told you and Mr. Cotgreave that 13 it would not use the blue asbestos on any machine 14 unless it had a local exhaust? 15 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 16 THE WITNESS: Mr. Cotgreave was told that, 17 y e s . i 18 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. Move to strike. 19 BY MR. KELLY: 20 Q. And -- and did Mr. Cotgreave 21 indicate -- strike that. 22 Did Mr. Cotgreave pass that information onto 23 you as to what Garlock had represented? 24 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 25 THE WITNESS: That's right. Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 72 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 MR. COLEMAN: It's a hearsay statement. 3 BY MR. KELLY: 4 Q. The -- the visit on October 17th, 1969, 5 you found that Garlock was using the blue asbestos 6 even on braiding machines that didn't have exhaust? 7 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 8 THE WITNESS: That's right. Because, as I 9 said previously, both Mr. Cotgreave and I had 10 indicated to the plant management that blue 11 asbestos shall not be used without adequate local 12 exhaust. 13 BY MR. KELLY: I 14 Q. And why was there a concern with the 15 blue asbestos being used in the absence of local i 16 exhaust? 17 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. Calls for an I i 18 expert opinion. 19 THE WITNESS: Because blue asbestos is more Ii 20 toxic. At that time, even in 1969 it was I 21 universally accepted that blue asbestos crocidolite 22 is, in order of magnitude, more toxic than white 23 asbestos. 24 BY MR. KELLY: 25 Q. Both the white and the blue asbestos ajim Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 73 j 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 are toxic? 3 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 4 THE WITNESS: Both are toxic. 5 BY MR. KELLY: 1 6 Q. And did Garlock have a number of I I 7 braiding machines that it used in its manufacturing 8 process? I 9 A. That's right. I 10 Q. Did some of them have exhaust? I 11 A. Yes. i 12 Q. And some didn't? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And at least on this particular visit, 15 the machines that Garlock had chosen to use the 16 crocidolite on were the ones that didn't have 17 exhaust? I 18 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 19 THE WITNESS: Yes. 20 BY MR. KELLY: 21 Q. At -- the very last sentence of your 22 report indicates that you had made certain 23 directions in your September 30 report -- which 24 we're going to get to in a second -- but, just to 25 reiterate what we spoke about earlier when Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FENK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 i Page 74 | 1 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans -10-25-05 I 2 Mr. Cotgreave issued directions as a member of the \ i 3 Department of Labour, it was equivalent to what an j 4 OSHA citation would be, correct? * f 5 MR. COLEMAN: Object to the form. j 6 THE WITNESS: That's right. j 7 BY MR. KELLY: I 8 Q. Now, at the bottom of that particular \ 9 page, first of all, is that your signature? i I 10 A. Yes, sir. I I 11 Q. And that stamp at the bottom that \ 12 says -- bottom right-hand corner that says j 13 occupational health, October 20, 1969, what does I 14 that mean? i 15 A. This is a stamp of the chief, ? 16 V.L. Tidey, that you see at the top, chief of j 17 occupational health and service. This is the stamp j 18 of his office. These are his initials that he has j I 19 seen it. V.L.T. That's how he used to initial it. 20 And that's what the stamp is all about. 21 Q. And by having -- by stamping this 22 document with the -- the seal that we just 23 mentioned, that indicates that the chief of the 24 occupational health service received this 25 document -- Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 75 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 MR. COLEMAN: Object to the form. 3 BY MR. KELLY: 4 Q. -- correct? 5 A. That's right. 6 Q. And is it your -- that's fine. 7 What -- what's the handwritten numbers? It 8 looks like it says J-63 and some other indications 9 at the bottom. 10 A. Okay. That -- once the chief has seen 11 it, it will go to his assistant, and his name was 12 Gordon Sinclair. 13 And Gor -- these -- these initials that you 14 see at the bottom of those handwritten things are 15 his -- his initials. And then he is the one who 16 will send it to the file. 17 And J-63, it just our -- used to be some 18 coding of the files where certain field visits 19 could be filed. 20 Q. But at least because the document was 21 received by the chief and carries those 22 representations, the -- the handwritten writings at 23 the bottom, that's an indication that this document 24 was not only made by the -- strike that. 25 The -- the stamp and the handwritten Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 76 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 notations at the bottom are an indication that this 3 document was received by the chief and kept by the 4 Department of Health during its ordinary course of 5 business; is that right? 6 A. Yes. 7 MR. COLEMAN: Object to the form. 8 MR. KELLY: Did you get the yes? 9 THE COURT REPORTER: Yes. 10 BY MR. KELLY: 11 Q. The next page of Exhibit A is a field 12 visit report from September 30, 1969; is that 13 right? 14 A. September 16th. Oh, the -- the date of 15 the report is September 30th. The visit was 16 September 16th. 17 Q. Okay. Thank you. 18 A. Sorry. 19 Q. And, again, this is a memo to the 20 chief, Tidey, correct? 21 A. That's right. 22 Q. And that's T-I-D-E-Y? 23 A. That's right. 24 Q. And was he your boss? 25 A. He was my boss's boss. Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 77 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. Who was your direct boss at this time? 3 A. Mr. Nelson. 4 Q. And this is actually the field visit 5 report that's referenced on the October 20, 1969 6 report, correct? 7 A. That's right. 8 Q. This is the report that was the basis 9 for the directions that Mr. Cotgreave issued to the 10 company upon the October 17th, 1969 visit? 11 A. That's right. 12 Q. And the report indicates that the -- 13 that your visit was at the request of D.E. Moore, 14 E.H.B. 15 Who is he? 16 A. D. Moore, I indicated before, let me 17 say it again, was one of the officers at our chest 18 disease services. 19 And when their x-ray technicians would visit 20 the plant, then they might observe something. And 21 they would come back to Mr. Moore and say that this 22 plant should be thoroughly investigated by an 23 industrial hygienist. 24 So Mr. Moore, then, would request our branch 25 to send one of the hygienist -- or send me, at that 5 Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 78 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 time I was the only hygienist or specialist or 3 anything they had to go and visit the plant. 4 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. Move to strike. 5 It's based upon speculation that that could have 6 happened at the Garlock plant. 7 MR. KELLY: Well, I -- I object to your 8 motion. 9 Number one, you can't do that under the 10 rules in Illinois on a discovery deposition. 11 Second of all, it's -- his answer was 12 talking generally. He wasn't talking about this. 13 But, I'll ask the question as to Garlock, if you'd 14 like. 15 BY MR. KELLY: 16 Q. Do you recall if D.E. Moore was -- made 17 the request for your involvement because of someone 18 having performed chest x-rays at the Garlock plant 19 that noticed a major problem with respect -- 20 A. Yes, I do. 21 Q. - - t o dust control? 22 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 23 THE WITNESS: Yes. 24 BY MR. KELLY: 25 Q. And was that communicated to you by Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 79 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Mr. Moore? 3 A. Yes. 3 4 Q. And as a result of that, you made your I 5 field visit to the plant on September 16, 1969? I 6 A. That's right. I 7 Q. In the first paragraph of your report, 8 it indicates that dust counts were done on 9 August 13 of 1969. Do you know who performed ! 10 those? I 11 A. I would not, unless I go to the record 12 and see who did it. I -- no. My memory could not 13 tell me exactly who did it. 14 Q. Okay. At least based on the results 15 enumerated in your report, it indicated that the 16 counts were below the TLV. 17 First of all, what's the TLV? I 18 A. TLV is a threshold limit value. It's 19 the acronym for threshold limit value, which are 20 developed and issued by ACGIH, American Conference 21 of Governmental Industrial Hygienists, after 22 reviewing all the published literature on that 23 particular contaminant for which the TLV is being 24 recommended. 25 There -- there is so-called a TLV committee Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 80 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 which comprises of all kinds of experts who would 3 review all the documentations of a level on that 4 particular contaminant. And then they will also 5 interview people who could give more testimony 6 about the hazards. 7 The bottom line, at the end of the day, is 8 the TLV's are the guidelines issued by ACGIH every 9 year for the use of professional hygienists to 10 evaluate exposures to various contaminants. And 11 they are revised, updated every year. 12 MR. COLEMAN: Objection, and move to strike 13 to the extent it does give expert testimony. 14 MR. KELLY: Well, I mean, he's talking about 15 the basis for what he was doing at the plant -- 16 MR. COLEMAN: As an expert. 17 MR. KELLY: -- for how he was evaluating 18 things done at the plant as a fact witness. 19 He had expertise, which is why he was in the 20 plant. But he's -- he's not giving an expert 21 opinion on TLV's. 22 BY MR. KELLY: 23 Q. At the time that you were in the plant, 24 what was the TLV that you were using for 25 comparison? Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 81 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. 12 fibers per milliliter, greater than 3 five microns in length of the fibers. 4 Q. And the TLV of 12 fibers, do you know 5 if that number has changed over time? 6 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 7 THE WITNESS: Yes. 8 BY MR. KELLY: 9 Q. And is that something that you learned 10 through your course of working for the Ontario 11 government? 12 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 13 THE WITNESS: Yes. 14 BY MR. KELLY: 15 Q. And as a result, over time, the TLV 16 that you used for comparison upon your various 17 field visits to plants and other locations was a 18 lower number than the 12; is that right? 19 MR. COLEMAN: Objection to form. 20 THE WITNESS: Yes. 21 BY MR. KELLY: 22 Q. In the next paragraph, it indicates 23 that the asbestos sheet room was considered to be 24 very dusty. 25 Can you explain to me what you meant when Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 82 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 you wrote that line? 3 A. That -- when I said "appeared to be," 4 that was based on visual observation. When dust 5 particles or fibrous particles were floating in the 6 air and staying in the air for quite some time. So 7 visually, it looked like a dust cloud hanging in 8 the room environment. 9 Q. You could actually visualize the dust 10 in the air? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And I know that the -- the -- the best 13 way to determine how much asbestos is in the air is 14 from actually taking a sample. But, I mean, in a 15 situation where you can visually see the dust, is 16 that sort of an indication that there is asbestos 17 in the air that can be inhaled? 18 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 19 THE WITNESS: That is the part of 20 recognition phase of industrial hygiene. 21 BY MR. KELLY: 22 Q. And explain to me what that means. 23 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 24 THE WITNESS: That means when you walk 25 through a plant, and if you smell something, you ssssswASsasK Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 59 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 83 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 know it's wrong -- something is wrong. If you see 3 any dusty place, you know something is wrong. And 4 so on and so forth. I I 5 So that is the recognition phase before you 6 start doing sampling at that particular place. I 7 BY MR. KELLY: 8 Q. Once you've been able to visualize, 9 smell or hear a problem, you can perform additional I 10 tests to determine the extent of that problem? 11 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 12 THE WITNESS: That's right. I 13 BY MR. KELLY: 14 Q. In this particular visit, did you note 15 that the blue asbestos was in use? 16 A. That's right. South African, as I say, 17 South African Blue crocidolite was found to be in 18 use without any local exhaust. 19 Q. And do you see here underneath the 20 asterisk where it says, The above mentioned company 21 has been previously visited by Mr. H. Nelson on 22 three occasions. 23 A. That's right. 24 Q. When you went into the Garlock plant 25 for the first time, what was -- strike that. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 ? Page 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Was this the first visit that you ever had i 3 to the Garlock plant that you recall? September 16 4 of 1969? I f 5 A. I think so. As I recall, yes. 6 Q. And when you went into the Garlock 7 plant, you obviously already knew that Mr. Nelson { 8 had visited Garlock on -- on three occasions, j I 9 correct? 10 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 4i 3 11 THE WITNESS: Yes. 12 BY MR. KELLY: j 13 Q. Had you had a chance to review his I 1 14 reports with respect to his three prior visits? % 15 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 16 THE WITNESS: Oh, yes. 17 BY MR. KELLY: 18 Q. And -- and why would that have 19 happened? I I& I 20 A. Because he was my boss. And he had j 21 visited these plants. And every time I would go j 22 and visit any plant which he had previously j t 23 visited, I would have extensive discussion with ? 24 him. In fact, sometimes it could last for hours. f 25 Q. Just generally, after a field visit \ f Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 85 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 report was created by an individual like yourself, 3 you would send copies to the various people listed, 4 correct? I I 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And then the ultimate copy that 7 received the stamp like the one at the top 8 right-hand corner of this particular document, that 9 was kept by the environmental health branch of the 10 Ministry of Health and then Labour, right? % 11 A. That's right. ! 12 MR. COLEMAN: Object to the form. I 13 BY MR. KELLY: I 14 Q. Did you keep -- strike that. 15 Do you know if the individual field visit 16 reports were kept in files by company or by date or 17 how exactly did they organize the field visit I 18 reports after they were maintained? I I 19 A. They were in a -- filed by company I I 20 name. i 21 Q. So, for example, in 1969, if you wanted j 22 to go find out about any prior field visits or any 23 other activities which had occurred with respect to j 24 Garlock at Jutland Road, you would go to the 25 Garlock-Jutland Road file? Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 86 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And do you know if you ever did that? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And did you ever review the -- the 6 Nelson reports? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And you reviewed them at the time of 9 your visits; is that right? 10 A. Just before. 11 Q. And since that time, my office has 12 provided you copies of the entirety of the 13 documents that we received from the Ontario 14 Ministry of Labour and the Ministry of Health; is 15 that right? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And did you find in there the three 18 reports of Nelson? 19 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 20 THE WITNESS: I -- 21 BY MR. KELLY: 22 Q. Well, let me ask it this way: Do -- do 23 you recall reviewing any of the reports of Nelson 24 that preceded your September 30, 1969 report? 25 A. Yes, I do recall. i--<-sssteztf-ite- Xn&tfM Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 87 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. And did those appear to be the same 3 documents that you reviewed prior to your field 4 visits to Garlock? 5 A. That's right. 6 Q. They didn't appear to be tampered with 7 or altered in any way -- 8 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 9 THE WITNESS: No. 10 BY MR. KELLY: 11 Q. -- from the time that you first 12 reviewed them? 13 A. No. Not at all. 14 Q. And they appeared to be the same types 15 of documents which were maintained by the Ontario 16 Ministry of Health and then Labour in the ordinary 17 course of their work? 18 M R . COLEMAN: Objection. 19 THE WITNESS: That's right. 20 BY MR. KELLY: 21 Q. The -- the last paragraph of this 22 report, September 30, 1969, indicates that both the 23 chrysotile, the white asbestos, and the crocidolite 24 blue asbestos were being used; is that right? 25 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. It speaks for Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 88 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 itself. 3 THE WITNESS: Please repeat that. Last 4 sentence of the first page you mean? Or -- 5 BY MR. KELLY: 6 Q. The last paragraph. 7 A. Of the first page? 8 Q. Yes. 9 A. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. 10 Q. Are you with me? 11 A. Yeah. 12 Q. Okay. And that indicates that Garlock 13 was using both the white chrysotile asbestos, as 14 well as the blue crocidolite asbestos on braiding 15 machines; is that right? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And what did you observe about 18 Garlock's use of these two fibers on the braiding 19 machines? 20 A. Well, in -- in some cases, they used 21 blue asbestos without local exhaust. And in some 22 cases, it was white asbestos were used without 23 adequate ventilation. 24 Q . And -- 25 A. And as I say in this report, the Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 89 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 company used blue asbestos more often than they 3 admit. 4 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 5 MR. KELLY: What? Objection to the answer? 6 MR. COLEMAN: Yes. I'm objecting and moving 7 to strike. It calls for speculation. It's his 8 supposition. It's not a fact. 9 MR. KELLY: Well, I don't -- I don't agree 10 with that. 11 BY MR. KELLY: 12 Q. Do you have a recollection of your 13 conversation with Mr. Rostas with respect to the 14 blue asbestos? 15 A. Yes. Very vividly. 16 Q. And -- and can you explain to me what 17 it was that you spoke with Mr. Rostas about on this 18 occasion with respect to the blue asbestos use? 19 A. I was very much concerned about the use 20 of blue asbestos by the company, having known that 21 blue asbestos is extremely dangerous. 22 And I indicated to Mr. Rostas that I would 23 like the company to eliminate the use of blue 24 asbestos or use it under adequate ventilation. 25 Q. And what was Mr. Rostas's response? Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services S9 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 90 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. Mr. Rostas was very receptive. He knew 3 about the -- the toxic effects of blue asbestos. 4 And he promised me that he would look into it. 5 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. Move to strike. 6 BY MR. KELLY: 7 Q. And when you were talking to Mr. Rostas 8 about -- about -- let me ask you this, first of 9 a l l : Did you ever see who it was that was 10 supplying the blue asbestos to Garlock? Do you 11 remember the name of the company? j 12 A . N o , I don't . I 13 Q. What about with respect to the white J 14 asbestos? 15 A. No, I don't. l 16 Q. During the times that you spoke with I 17 Mr. well, let -- let me just start here. j 18 In September 30 -- or, September 16 of 1969, j I I 19 when you were at the plant and being escorted 20 throughout the plant by Mr. Rostas, did he already 1 21 know that the blue asbestos was toxic? I 22 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 23 THE WITNESS: It -- yes. I -- I recall that 24 Mr. Rostas agreed with me that blue asbestos is 25 more toxic. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 91 I 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 BY MR. KELLY: 3 Q. Okay. And when you say "more toxic," 4 does that mean that Mr. Rostas knew that the white 5 asbestos was toxic, and the blue asbestos was also 6 toxic? 7 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 8 THE WITNESS: Yes. I, I. 9 BY MR. KELLY: I 10 Q. And the two of you agreed that the blue 11 asbestos, at least to some degree, was more toxic 12 in comparison to the white asbestos? 13 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 14 THE WITNESS: Yes. 15 BY MR. KELLY: 16 Q. Now, when you made the statement, I 17 have a feeling that the company uses blue asbestos 18 more often than they admit, what prompted that 19 statement? 20 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 21 THE WITNESS: Because in the previous 22 visits, including Mr. Nelson's visit, they kept 23 saying that at every -- on every visit, the company 24 kept saying that they are going to be reducing the 25 use of blue asbestos or eliminating the use of blue Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-F1NK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 92 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 asbestos. And that did not appear to be the case 3 at -- on this visit. 4 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. Move to strike. 5 There's no foundation. He hasn't listed who he 6 spoke to. 7 BY MR. KELLY: 8 Q. The -- the second page, I want you to 9 turn your attention to that. 10 When you're talking about the blue asbestos 11 being stored in 80-pound cartons at the north end 12 of a room, 200-feet by 100-feet by 12-feet high, 13 what room are you referring to? 14 A. These will be -- this will be the 15 receiving room. 16 Q. And what exactly did you observe in 17 these 80-pound cartons? I 1 18 A. They were not tightly packed. And 19 several yarn rolls were found to be lying open on 20 the floor and the cartons. 21 Q. And do you have a recollection of how 22 big these rolls were? I 23 A . N o , I don't . 24 Q. Okay. Did they actually come on a 25 spool, like thread? Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 93 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 != 2 A. Yes. Yes. They did come on a spool. I 3 Q. Did any of the blue asbestos that you 4 found in this room, was it just raw fiber? Or was S 5 it all processed into yarn? ? 6 A. Processed into yarn. ; 7 Q. And were there other areas of the plant i 8 where raw blue fiber was kept? j | $ 9 A. No, not that I recall. f 10 Q. Okay. The next paragraph indicates j | 11 that the Number 5 and 6 braiding machine had some j * 12 sort of exhaust measures; is that right? j 13 A. That's right. 14 Q. Why did Garlock have exhaust mechanisms 15 on the various braiding machines? 16 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. j 17 THE WITNESS: Because they -- they knew that j | 18 asbestos dust or any or other dusts could be } 19 spewing out, and they should be controlled. j 20 BY MR. KELLY: J 21 Q. And was the purpose of controlling the 22 release of asbestos fibers in order to reduce the j s 23 potential health hazards to the workers? I 24 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 25 THE WITNESS : That's right. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 94 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 BY MR. KELLY: 3 Q. At least from your communications with 4 the management people at the Garlock plant at 5 Jutland Road, the management personnel appreciated 6 the fact that the asbestos fibers posed a potential 7 health hazard to the workers? 8 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 9 THE WITNESS: That's right. 10 BY MR. KELLY: 11 Q. During your entire time that you spent 12 visiting the Garlock plant at Jutland Road, did you 13 ever see any signs that informed the workers of the 14 potential health hazards? 15 A . No. Never. 16 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 17 BY MR. KELLY: 18 Q. You indicate that the machines were 19 covered with chrysotile fibers in the last sentence 20 of the second paragraph. Explain that to me. 21 A. Second paragraph? 22 Q. The last sentence. 23 A. The machines were covered with 24 chrysotile fibers. That means the exhaust -- the 25 local ventilation on those machines were not Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 95 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans -10-25-05 f I 2 effective, and that's why the fibers were escaping { 3 the canopies that were over those machines. And f 4 that's why the -- the machines were covered with j 5 chrysotile fibers, because once they escape, they | 6 will settle on the machine. f 7 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. Move to strike. > 8 Calls for an opinion. j 9 MR. KELLY: How does it call for an opinion? j 10 He's giving factual testimony. I mean, I ! 1 11 understand you don't like the testimony, but you j I 12 can't strike it just on that basis. I mean, he's ! 13 giving factual recitations of what he observed j 14 based on his actual recollection in addition to the ; 15 document that he wrote at or near the time that he ! 16 observed it. : | 17 MR. COLEMAN: No. Saying that he sawdust on j | 18 a machine is a factual recollection. i 19 Saying how it got there because he is s 20 opining as to how the machines worked is an 1i? 21 opinion. f 22 MR. KELLY: Well, let's godown that road, | 23 Mr. Rajhans. 24 BY MR. KELLY: ; 25 Q. Part of your training includedmeasures j Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 9 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 96 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 to help reduce the amount of toxic dust in the air 3 in manufacturing plants; is that right? 4 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 5 THE WITNESS: That's right. 6 BY MR. KELLY: 7 Q. And, in fact, one of your books 8 detailed how exactly companies or places where 9 asbestos was being used could design ventilation 10 systems in the hopes of reducing the amount of 11 asbestos dust in the breathing zone of workers? 12 A. That's right. 13 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 14 THE WITNESS: That's right. 15 My book published in 1978 showed detailed 16 designs for the mixers, the cutters, the 17 hammer mill, everything that could be done to 18 reduce asbestos exposure to the lowest possible 19 level. 20 MR. COLEMAN: Note my objection. We've 21 clearly crossed the point right now where we're 22 going from factual to expert testimony. The 23 witness is being called as a fact witness only and 24 not an as expert. 25 MR. KELLY: Well, I mean, you can't have it Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 9 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 97 j I 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans -10-25-05 I 2 both ways. You can't object that he doesn't have j 3 the factual foundational basis in order to make the j | 4 observations that he did at the time he was there. 5 And then, when we try to clear that up 6 foundationally, based on his knowledge, say that he 7 can't give expert opinions. 8 I mean, he's giving his opinions based on 9 his factual recitations. 10 MR. COLEMAN: I actually can, because he was 11 noticed only as a fact witness. 12 Had he been listed as an expert witness, he 13 could have given a foundation for an opinion as to 14 how the dust may have gotten there. 15 The fact is that as a fact witness, he may 16 testify as to what he saw and what he observed. 17 And that is the basis of a fact witness. 18 You're trying to go into the expert opinion. 19 And what you're trying to do at this juncture is to 20 try to give a factual basis for an opinion. 21 It's -- 22 BY MR. KELLY: 23 Q. As part of your -- your job as the dust 24 control specialist in visiting the Garlock plants, 25 were you required to make recommendations to the fcsrfasWiistw-ASi Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FLNK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 98 | 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 I 2 various companies, including Garlock, on ways to I 3 use exhaust and other measures in order to reduce ! 4 the dust as much as possible? 5 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 6 THE WITNESS: That was my job. 7 BY MR. KELLY: 8 Q. And in this particular instance in I I I 9 September 16 of 1969, did you make any such f ( 10 recommendations to Garlock? j 11 A. Yes, I did. I 12 Q. And what was that? I i 13 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 14 THE WITNESS: Those recommendations are 15 listed in the -- under directions to be issued on 16 page 3. 17 MR. COLEMAN: And again, note my objection. j 18 They encompass things that are not necessarily what ; 19 has been observed. These are recommendations based j 20 upon perhaps his training, but it would take an j 21 expert to actually devise new methods to be 22 utilized and things to be done into the future. * 23 That's not an observation. So, I object to him 24 testifying as to what his recommendations were. | 25 MR. KELLY: All right. And you can have a ! Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 99 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 continuing objection to that. , 3 MR. COLEMAN: Thank you. As to -- just -- { 4 just so we're clear, would this be as to all the 5 documents so I don't have to do this for every 6 individual document? Or it just this document? 7 MR. KELLY: Well, if -- if your objection is 8 you think that his factual recitation of the 9 recommendations that he made on his various visits 10 and the observations he made is somehow an expert 1 11 opinion -- ? 12 MR. COLEMAN: Okay. 13 MR. KELLY: -- I'll give you that continuing 14 objection -- 15 MR. COLEMAN: Fair enough. 16 MR. KELLY: -- but I don't think it has any 17 basis. ! 18 BY MR. KELLY: 19 Q. You indicated that you did make j 20 directions to the company, and that that was on 21 page 3? 22 A. T h a t 's right. 23 Q. And what recommendations did you make 24 with respect to exhaust? 25 MR. COLEMAN: Same objection. Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 100 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 THE WITNESS: Well, as you can see on page 3 3 of the report, I did indicate that blue asbestos 4 shall be only used -- the word is "shall," not 5 "should, " -- shall be only used under adequate 6 local mechanical exhaust and adequacy of that I 7 exhaust will further be determined by myself on II I 8 subsequent visits. I z 9 Then the braiding machines should be 10 provided or shall be provided better -- better 11 enclosures, because those braiding machines did not 12 have good enclosures. And that's why dust escaped. 13 And that's why the dust was seen on those machines 14 that earlier was referred by me. 15 Q. And -- and let me cut you off there. I 16 You found loose fibers in both chrysotile 17 and blue fibers on the braiding machine? 18 A. Yes, sir. 19 Q. Okay. And -- and what was your next 20 recommendation? 21 A. The housekeeping in the sheet room 22 shall be improved. Only vacuuming or wet sweeping. 23 And this was emphasized because I -- I would 24 not want anybody to use compressed air to clean the 25 floor. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 101 1 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. Why is that? 3 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 4 THE WITNESS: Because compressed air will 5 stir up more dust and will -- will have more 6 airborne dust in that room. 7 BY MR. KELLY: 8 Q. Have you ever heard the term 9 reentrainment? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And is that the concern that if you 12 introduce air or some other environmental factor, 13 that settled dust can become airborne once again? 14 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 15 THE WITNESS: That's right. 16 BY MR. KELLY: 17 Q. And that was a -- a health and hygiene 18 concern to the workers; is that correct? 19 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 20 THE WITNESS: That's right. 21 BY MR. KELLY: 22 Q. What was the -- the fifth I t 23 recommendation that you made? 24 A. The fourth one, if I could go back? 25 Q. That's all right. The fourth one, y e s . I Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 102 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. The fourth one was that the air 3 conveying system at the hammer mill shall be 4 repaired and maintained leak free. 5 And it was done, because some leakages were 6 observed. And the air conveying system was under 7 pressure. So, it has to be leak free. 8 The fifth was employees handling blue 9 asbestos shall be provided with adequate 10 respiratory protection. 11 Q. Okay. And let's talk about that one 12 for a second. 13 The -- when you were talking about 14 respiratory protection, what are you talking about? 15 A. I'm talking about dust masks that are 16 approved by NIOSH at that time for the protection 17 against asbestos. 18 Q. And can you describe to me what the 19 respiratory protection that NIOSH prescribed for 20 asbestos at that time was like? 21 A. Yes. NIOSH prescribed at that time -- 22 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 23 MR. KELLY: Just a sec. 24 I mean, I understand you're going to object 2 5 to every single question that's asked today. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 103 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 MR. COLEMAN: I'm not trying to cut him off. 3 MR. KELLY: But you can't object during the 4 middle of an answer, in order to, you know, change 5 the way he answers the question. 6 I mean, if you're just doing this to sort of 7 throw him off and stuff, that's unfair and it's not 8 in good faith. 9 I've already given you a continuing 10 objection. So, I'd just ask that you be respectful 11 to the witness, as h e 's been respectful to everyone 1 12 else in the room, and let him -- 13 MR. COLEMAN: I'm trying to. 14 MR. KELLY: -- answer the questions when 15 h e 's answering. 16 MR. COLEMAN: I'm trying to. 17 MR. KELLY: Sorry, Mr. Rajhans. Could you 18 please answer? 19 THE WITNESS: Okay. NIOSH, at that time, 20 had several categories for respirators which could 21 be approved for asbestos exposure. 22 They had one type which usually was called, 23 for example, 3M-8710. I'm just giving an example. 24 I'm not trying to name a company here. Will be 25 approved up to ten times the TLV of asbestos. Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 104 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Then, there will be powered air purifying 3 respirator which will be allowed up to 50 times. 4 So on and so forth. 5 BY MR. KELLY: 6 Q. And during your visit, you reference 7 that the operator of the bag dumping and loosening 8 of fiber operation was wearing an approved-type 9 respirator; is that right? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Did you notice anyone else at the 12 Garlock plant wearing a respirator? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Did you see any signs at any time you 15 went to the Garlock plant advising the workers that 16 they should wear respirators? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Did you ever learn what the operator 19 that was working in the bag dumping and loosening 20 of fibers operation was told as to why he or she 21 should wear such a respirator? 22 A. No. 23 Q. If you go down into comments, you -- 24 you mentioned Mr. Nelson's prior reports that -- 25 that you had to read prior to your visit, and then Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 105 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 also indicated that you were told during the visit 3 that the blue asbestos was not being used that day. 4 Do you know who it was that told you that? 5 A. As soon as I could go into a plant, as 6 I said, I will ask for the senior-most person in 7 charge of that plant to see me and accompany me for 8 the visit. And it was Mr. Rostas, who was the 9 plant engineer. 10 And he, during our initial conversation 11 before we go out in the plant, if I recall 12 correctly, and as this report says, that as soon as 13 we started walking into the plant, I was told that 14 blue asbestos was not being used at least that day. 15 Q. Is that what you found when you went 16 into the plant? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. You found that asbestos was not being 19 used? 20 A. No, it was. 21 Q. Okay. So, in fact, though Mr. Rostas 22 told you blue asbestos was not being used, it was 23 being used on one of the braiding machines? 24 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 25 THE WITNESS: That's right. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 106 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 BY MR. KELLY: 3 Q. The last sentence here indicated that 4 the TLV for blue asbestos is zero. Did you 5 communicate that to Mr. Rostas? 6 A. Yes, I did. 7 Q. And when you communicated that to him, 8 was he aware of the fact that the TLV for blue 9 asbestos was zero? 10 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 11 THE WITNESS: Yes. 12 BY MR. KELLY: 13 Q. In part 3 of the comments, you 14 indicated at the last sentence that the 15 housekeeping in the room was poor. What is 16 housekeeping? 17 A. Housekeeping usually meant for the 18 industrial hygienist, the -- the way the floor of 19 that particular room is cluttered and dust found 20 everywhere. 21 In other words, no clean-up job was done. 22 Regularly, no maintenance or clean-up job was 23 performed. 24 And that's what we called, the housekeeping. 25 MR. KELLY: All right. Let's take a quick Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 I Page 107 f 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 break. I think we need to change the type. 3 THE WITNESS: Okay. 4 (Videotape Number 1 was then concluded at 5 12:33. ) 6 (A short recess was taken.) 7 (Videotape Number 2 was begun at 12:37.) 8 BY MR. KELLY: 9 Q. Now, with respect to the documents that 10 make up Exhibit A, did the Department of Health 11 environmental health branch have a practice or 12 policy of providing these documents to the company 13 at issue? 14 A. That's right. 15 Q. And whose responsibility was it to 16 provide copies of the field visit reports and 17 recommendations to the company? 18 A. It was the chief of the hygiene 19 service. It will go under V.L. Tidey, depending on 20 whoever is the chief. So let's say the chief of 21 the service will send a copy of the report to the 22 company. 23 Q. Okay. So, all field visit reports with 24 respect to a company, including the ones in 25 Exhibit A, would have been forwarded on to Garlock? Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 108 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. Yes. 3 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 4 BY MR. KELLY: 5 Q. Let's turn to tab B. This is a field 6 visit report from a visit of July 16, 1970 and the 7 report is July 29, 1970, correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Again, this is a report that you 10 authored? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And it reflects a plant visit at the 13 Garlock-Jutland Road location? Ii 14 A. That's right. 15 Q. Who are the contacts that you had 16 escort you through the plant on this occasion? 17 A. This time I had Mr. Rostas, as before, 18 but also Mr. Pilmer, who was the president of the I 19 company. 20 Q. He was president of Garlock of Canada 21 Limited? 22 A. At that time, yes. 23 Q. And had you met him before? I 24 A. N o . i 25 Q. Do you know why it was that he Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FENK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 109 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 accompanied you on this particular visit? 3 A. I would not have the recollection of 4 that why he decided to go. I would be speculating 5 and I would not like to. 6 Q. The COPIES were sent, of this report, 7 were sent to who? 8 A. Jim McNair, as you see, got three 9 copies. At that time, he was the director of 10 industrial safety branch. 11 Dr. Cowle was the chief of chest disease 12 service. 13 And Mr. Wall, who was the head of the 14 occupational health lab, as I said before. 15 Q. And when you indicate the names of 16 people that copies are sent to, is that just a 17 reference to who copies are sent to internally at 18 the Department of Health or the Department of I p 19 Labour? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. I mean, you wouldn't make any reference 22 to the fact that copies were sent to Garlock 23 because that was something that the chief did, 24 correct? I 25 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. { Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-F1NK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 110 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 THE WITNESS: That's right. 3 BY MR. KELLY: 4 Q. In this particular location -- or, 5 strike that. 6 What -- what caused you to be in the plant 7 for this particular visit on July 16 of 1970? 8 A. Because we were informed by the I I 9 company, as you can see, this was -- this was one 10 of the unique visits that was requested by the 11 company. Mr. Rostas requested us to come over 12 because they had installed a new exhaust system, 13 and they needed my help to evaluate that one. 14 Q. So -- so Garlock had actually asked you 15 to him in to help them implement their new exhaust 16 system? 17 A. Oh, to -- to evaluate. 18 Q. Okay. And if we go back to Exhibit A, 19 the directions that you issued in September of 20 1969, they were actually issued by Cotgreave by his 21 October 17th visit? 22 A. That's right. 23 Q. And -- and one of those directions I 24 which I think you said before contained the force 25 of law was to not use the blue asbestos absent Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FLNK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 111 \ 1 Gyan ShankarRajhans-10-25-05 } 2 mechanical exhaust? 1 | 3 A. Exactly. ; 4 Q. And when you went back on July 16 of ! 5 1970, did you find that theblueasbestos was still } 6 being used? i 7 A. If I recall correctly, that was. But I j 8 have to read the entire report. But I -- I recall I l 9 every time I went, I found them using asbestos I 10 regardless how many timesthey denied that they j 11 have stopped using it. j 12 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. I 13 BY MR. KELLY: 1 14 Q. Okay. And you made a reference that 15 the blue asbestos was in use on this particular 16 visit, didn't you? 17 A. I -- I will have to -- 18 Q. Take your time? 19 A. -- read the whole thing, again. 20 I do -- do say here, the blue asbestos was 21 being used at the braiding machine during the 22 visit. 23 Q. Okay. And in addition, you also 24 noticed that the chrysotile asbestos was now being 25 used at the machine that didn't have the local Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 112 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 exhaust; is that right? 3 A. That's right. 4 Q. So, in effect, is it your recollection 5 that Garlock had simply just changed which machines 6 it was using the blue asbestos on as opposed to 7 adding local exhaust to the machines that didn't 8 have them? 9 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 10 THE WITNESS: Exactly. 11 BY MR. KELLY: 12 Q. And was this a concern to you? 13 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 14 THE WITNESS: It -- it was my concern, 15 because the -- the ventilation required for various 16 braiding machines using various types of exhaust 17 systems would be different. 18 If you have more toxic asbestos fibers used 19 at a particular machine, they might require more 20 enclosures, better types of ventilation than the i 21 one which will use less toxic fibers. j 22 So that becomes my concern, that became my ! 23 concern when they used two types of asbestos j I 24 interchangeably, whereas the ventilation was the I 25 same. ; Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 113 % 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans -10-25-05 [ 2 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. Move to strike. j ( 3 It's calling for expert testimony. H 4 MR. KELLY: You think his answer called for f 5 expert testimony? My question -- my question f 6 didn't. i 7 MR. COLEMAN: I think, well, it wasn't j i 8 necessarily responsive, too. I mean, he just gave | 9 an expert opinion as to why he believed certain 1 10 vents should have been used for certain types. !3 s 11 That's not an observation of what he saw. It was ! 12 an opinion based upon his experience, and he's only \ 13 being called as a fact witness. ! 14 BY MR. KELLY: 15 Q. When you noticed the chrysotile 16 asbestos being used without local exhaust, did you 17 point this out to the Garlock representatives, 18 Mr. Rostas and Mr. Pilmer? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q . And what was it that you indicated to 21 them was the problem of using the chrysotile 22 without local exhaust? What did you tell them? 23 A. I just said in this report, if I could 24 take you to the report, the -- the second paragraph S 25 towards the end of that paragraph, I say an attempt Fink & Caraey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 114 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 was made to acquaint Mr. Rostas and Mr. Pilmer with 3 the latest information on asbestos dust and its 4 health hazards. 5 Q. Now, let's start back a little bit 6 further here. 7 You noticed that the chrysotile asbestos was 8 being used without local exhaust? 9 A. That's right. 10 Q. And you pointed this out to Mr. Rostas? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And what did he tell you as to why 13 Garlock was using chrysotile on the non-exhausted 14 braiding machine? 15 A. I don't recall what exactly he said at 16 that time. If he said anything, it would be 17 mentioned in this report. 18 Q. Okay. And if you look at the sentence 19 prior to it, do you not reference that Mr. Rostas 20 mentioned that he thought only blue asbestos was 21 toxic and no health hazard is associated with 22 chrysotile? 23 A. Yeah. Now I see it. Yes. 24 Q . Okay. 25 A . Thank you. Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 115 j , i 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans -10-25-05 f i 2 Q. And do you have a recollection ofthat? j 3 A . N o , I d o n 't . I 4 Q. Okay. Now, at least based on his ! | 5 representations to you as to the apparent ! 6 toxicities in his mind of the various fiber types, \ 7 you made an attempt to acquaint both Mr. Rostas and \ f 8 Mr. Pilmer, the president of Garlock, as to the | 9 latest information on asbestos dust and its health j 10 hazards? \ 11 MR. COLEMAN: Objection to form. j 12 THE WITNESS: That's right. As I said in l 13 this report. 14 BY MR. KELLY: 15 Q. Do you have a recollection today of 16 what it was you communicated to Mr. Pilmer and 17 Mr. Rostas about the latest information on asbestos 18 dust and its health hazards? 19 MR. COLEMAN: And, again, you're talking 20 about July 16, 1970? 21 MR. KELLY: That's the Exhibit we're on. 22 M R . COLEMAN: Okay. 23 THE WITNESS: No, I -- if I -- if my memory 24 serves me right, and based on that, I would say 25 that I gave them several published papers at that Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 116 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 time, including our asbestos data sheet that the 1 s 3 Ministry had published at that time. And that had I I 4 details of medical findings and respirators, proper ji I 5 respirators, ventilation, all kinds of things, i 6 recorded asbestos data sheet. i 7 BY MR. KELLY: 8 Q. And within those, the asbestos data 9 sheet and the various papers that you provided 10 Mr. Pilmer and Mr. Rostas, was there any discussion 11 as to the fact that the health hazards included the 12 potential of an individual to develop cancer? j \ 13 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. j 14 THE WITNESS: Yes, there was. I 1 15 BY MR. KELLY: j 16 Q. And do you specifically recall if the j | 17 discussion of the various fiber types -- well, j 18 strike that. I 19 Did the information that you provided 20 them -- did it indicate that all of the various 21 fiber types had the potential of causing cancer? 22 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 23 THE WITNESS: Yes. 24 BY MR. KELLY: 25 Q. And was that information found in the Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 data sheet that you talked about? 3 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. Page 117 f j j 4 THE WITNESS: That's right. j 5 BY MR. KELLY: | 6 Q. Do you recall if it was also contained 7 in the papers that you provided? 8 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 9 THE WITNESS: That's right. 10 BY MR. KELLY : 11 Q. As you sit here today, do you recall I 12 which papers other than the data sheet that you \ 13 provided? 14 A. No, I don't. 15 Q. Do you know if they were medical 16 articles or something else? 17 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 18 THE WITNESS: They -- they -- they were 19 medical findings of various asbestos dust. 20 BY MR. KELLY: 21 Q. Now, if you go to the second page under 22 comments, paragraph 2, had the TLV changed? 23 A. Yeah. 24 Q. And -- and what had it changed from and 25 what did it change to? Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 118 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. From 12 fibers per milliliter, the TLV 3 was changed or reduced to five fibers per 4 milliliter. 5 Q. And is your understanding that 6 the -- the five fibers per milliliter at that time 7 was deemed to be safe and that you would get 8 absolutely no disease? 9 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 10 THE WITNESS: TLV is never -- a fine line 11 between safe and dangerous level. So, TLV should 12 never, never be considered as the speed limit that 13 above that you are dangerous or driving 14 dangerously, and below that you're driving safely. 15 It is just a guideline where most of the 16 workers could perform their work repeatedly day 17 after day, eight hours a day, 40 hours a week, 18 rather, most safely. 19 But it says nearly all workers. 20 That shows that there could be some workers 21 who could still be contracting disease even at that 22 level or below that level. 23 Q. So -- 24 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 25 BY MR. KELLY: Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FLNK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 t Page 119 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans -10-25-05 | 2 Q. -- so even when you were in the Garlock j I 3 plant and taking samples and trying to ensure that j 4 their levels were as low as possible, even when | 5 asbestos fibers were found below the TLV, that was | 6 still a potential health risk to the -- j 7 A. Yes, sir. J | 8 Q. -- workers? I 9 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. { I 10 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. By all means. li 11 BY MR. KELLY: j i 12 Q. And did you communicate that at any ! 13 time to Garlock? 14 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. I 15 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. And invarious ! 1 16 reports later on, you will find that being j 1 17 repeated. j 18 BY MR. KELLY: j 19 Q. As you sit here today, do you have any j 20 recollection of any individuals, whether it be j 21 Mr. Rostas or others, that youcommunicated that j 22 to? 1 23 A. Yes. I did do one to Mr. Rostas. And 24 later, on my boss communicated to other management 25 of the company. Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 120 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. Move to strike. 3 Calls for hearsay. 4 BY MR. KELLY: 5 Q. And if you turn to Exhibit C, first of 6 all, what is this document? 7 A. This is doc -- a document, again, is 8 based on my visit to the company, accompanied by an 9 industrial safety officer, Mr. Cotgreave. And this 10 was -- Mr. Cotgreave wanted to issue the 11 directions, and he wanted me to come with him. 12 Q. Okay. And this is a -- a field visit 13 report again, right? 14 A. Yeah. 15 Q. And it's from July 26, 1971? 16 A. That's right. 17 Q. It's authored byyou? 18 A. That's right. 19 Q. And the contact is who? 20 A. Contact is Mr. Rostas. But the plant 21 was closed at that time. 22 Q. Okay. And did you make any findings at 23 this time? 24 A. We made a quick tour anyway, that we 25 were at the plant. We didn't want to waste our Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 121 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 time. And we -- we did a quick tour to see where 3 the -- any new dust control system or any -- 4 anything else had changed. But we could not assess 5 any adequacy of the local exhaust because the 6 company was closed for the summer. 7 Q. Okay. The next page of Exhibit C, is 8 that a -- air sampling for asbestos and lead 9 report? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And explain to me, first of all, what 12 this document is. 13 A. This document is a -- a report of the 14 sampling done by one of the lab technicians. As 15 you can see at the top, it says Ontario Department 16 of Health, occupational health laboratories, and -- 17 and gives you the street name and everything. That 18 all was under the same branch, but they were 19 located at a different place. 20 Mr. Polny, P-O-L-N-Y, who was one of the 21 technicians, he did the sampling and then reported 22 the results to me. The sample was requested as you 23 can see by me and the chemical specialists at that 24 time, Mr. Bithel. 25 Q. So -- so not only did you request the Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 59 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 122 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 sampling be done, you were also copied with this 3 report at the time it was -- 4 A. That's right. 5 Q. -- prepared, correct? 6 A. That's right. 7 Q. And is this the typical format that, in 8 1971, the air sampling would be reported? 9 A. Yes. In 1971. That's right. You're 10 right. 11 Q. And it's actually broken down into two 12 sections: One with respect to asbestos total fiber 13 counts; and then a second one with respect to the 14 lead counts that were being -- 15 A. That's right. 16 Q. And Mr. Polny, was he one of the 17 individuals that performed the actual samples, or 18 did he just analyze the results? 19 A. He did sampling and analysis. All our 20 technicians were trained for both sampling and 21 analysis. 22 Q. And typically, did the Ontario 23 Department of Health try to have the same person do 24 the analysis that had done the sampling? 25 M R . COLEMAN: Obj ec tio n . Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 123 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 THE WITNESS: Yes. Whoever collected the 3 sample always did the analysis. 4 BY MR. KELLY: 5 Q. When sampling was done, did you have 6 to -- strike that. 7 When sampling was going to be done at a 8 particular location, did the person tasked with 9 doing the sampling have to make an appointment with 10 the company in order to come in and do the samples? 11 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 12 THE WITNESS: Yes. Yes. There -- it will 13 not be a surprise visit. Technicians always made 14 an appointment. 15 BY MR. KELLY: 16 Q. Okay. So unlike the actual field 17 visits where you would just show up and attempt to 18 catch the company in its usual course of -- of 19 doing the work, the sampling of the company was 20 always done by appointment? 21 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 22 THE WITNESS: Pre -- pre-arranged. 23 BY MR. KELLY: 24 Q. And those pre-arranged appointments, 25 the company knew someone was coming to actually Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 124 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 sample the air, correct? 3 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 4 THE WITNESS: That's right. %I 5 BY MR. KELLY: 6 Q. And in this particular report, there 7 were six different samples taken; is that right? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. I'm sorry, let me start that question 10 again. 11 Of the six samples, were any of them in j 12 excess of the -- the fiber limit at that particular f 13 time? I 14 A. No. The fiber limit at that time for 15 the TLV of that time was five fibers. And highest 16 at that time, that Mr. Polny observed and analyzed 17 was two fibers. 18 Q. Okay. Let's go to the next Exhibit, 19 Exhibit D. 20 That first page, it appears to be a letter 21 on Department of Health letterhead from 22 September 9, 1971. What is that? 23 A. That's a letterhead. The -- the 24 protocol had changed. Now, my immediate boss, 25 Mr. Nelson, was allowed to send a copy of my report Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 125 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 directly to the company. 3 Q. So -- 4 A. So, rather than Mr. Tidey doing it. 5 Q. All right. So, the procedure before 6 was Tidey sent the report to the company, and the 7 change in policy for the Department of Health was 8 now the officer in change, Mr. Nelson, was 9 sending 10 A . Yes, sir. 11 Q. -- copies of the report of the company? 12 A. Yes, sir. 13 Q. And at this time, Garlock was being 14 provided a copy your August 11, 1971 report, 15 correct? 16 A. That's right. 17 Q. And that report is three pages; is that 18 right? 19 A. That's right. 20 Q. And, again, it's authored by you? 21 A. That's right. 22 Q. And the report is dated September 1, 23 1971; is that right? 24 A. That's right. 25 Q. And who is the contact? Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 126 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. The contact is, again, Mr. Rostas of 3 the plant. Plant engineer. 4 Q. And you sent copies to a number of 5 individuals who we've talked about before, correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. What was it that caused you to be 8 requested to make a field visit on this occasion? 9 A. Again, this time, it was Mr. Cotgreave, 10 as you see, requested originally, and I just 11 followed it up. 12 Q. And do you know what it was that 13 prompted Mr. Cotgreave to get you involved -- 14 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 15 BY MR. KELLY: 16 Q. - - i n -- in -- with respect to this 17 particular visit? 18 A. This, if I recall correctly, this visit 19 was mainly because they had installed a new local 20 exhaust. And Mr. Cotgreave wanted me to do the 21 entire ventilation, all -- do the ventilation 22 survey of the entire plant, including this new 23 local exhaust to see if they're adequate. 24 Q. So, you performed an analysis at the 25 request of the Department of Labour investigative Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 services branch of each and every exhaust or Page 127 \ I 3 enclosure that was at Garlock? 4 A. That's right. s 5 Q. At least at that time, that was 6 present? 7 A . That w a s . 8 Q. And the chart that you included, does 9 that include your analysis of each and every 10 machine or operation? 11 A. Ventilation analysis. 12 Q. And your overall comments you indicate 13 that the local exhaust appeared to be well designed 14 and adequately ventilated; is that right? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And even though the exhausts were well 17 designed and adequately ventilated, did that mean 18 that -- strike that. 19 Because the local exhausts were, as you 20 found, well designed and adequately ventilated, did 21 that mean that all of the workers were safe from 22 being exposed to asbestos fibers? 23 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 24 THE WITNESS: No. No. No. Because 25 those -- those were just the -- the evaluation of Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 . p Page 128 j 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 ventilation on those machines, not the work 3 practices. Not everything else that was going on. 4 And as I say in the comments, look at 5 Number 1 comment, third sentence, back up a bit, 6 the second -- however the canopy located over the 7 operator working inside the hammer mill enclosure 8 needs some improvement. At present, the canopy is 9 such that the flow of air passes the worker's 10 breathing zone and increases his exposure to I I 11 asbestos dust. 12 Q. What was the -- the risk or 13 significance with respect to that finding? 14 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. p * 15 THE WITNESS: The risk was that if the air, 16 which picks up dust from the machine, flows through I j 17 the breathing zone, the worker will breathe it I 18 first before it gets taken out to the outside. ! 19 BY MR. KELLY: II 20 Q. So even though the exhaust mechanism s 21 moved, at least, some of the fibers out of the area 22 of the machine, it actually took them past where 23 the worker was breathing? I 24 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. II 25 THE WITNESS: Exactly. iSSSSS I Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 129 j 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 BY MR. KELLY: 3 Q. Did you make any findings with respect 4 to the operator himself? 5 A. I found the operator's face and clothes 6 covered with asbestos fibers. 7 Q. And did this confirm to you that there 8 was a problem with you way the exhaust -- 9 M R . COLEMAN: Objection. 10 BY MR. KELLY: 11 Q. -- was operating? 12 A. That's right. f 13 Q. In paragraph 2, you'rediscussing [ 14 the -- the -- well, let me ask you this: Were you 15 again able, on this visit, to visually see airborne j f 16 fibers in the air? | 17 A. Yeah. I | | 18 Q. And you make the comment that any j | 19 respirator would be ineffective. Explainthat to I i 20 me. | | 21 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. Calls for an ! 22 expert opinion. j 23 THE WITNESS: Okay. I will tell you anyway, 24 because each and every respirator has a protection 25 factor which could range from five to 1,000. Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 In other words, if you have one fiber per cc 3 in the air, the risk -- the protection factor of | 4 five would protect the worker up to five fibers per i I 5 cc. fI I 6 Similarly, if you have a respirator with a I 7 protection factor of 100, it will protect you up to 8 100 fibers per c c . 9 But the amount of dust cloud and the things 10 that I observed, I did not think there was, at that 11 time, any respirator manufactured which could 12 adequately protect the workers. 13 In other words, there wasn't any respirator 14 with a protection factor of one million or 1 15 something that would protect, because my 16 observation indicated that was well beyond any 17 respirator's completely protecting the workers. 18 BY MR. KELLY: |1 19 Q. You observed so much dust in the hammer J 20 milling area that there was no respirator that you } l 21 knew of that could protect any worker? | 22 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. j I 23 THE WITNESS: At that time. j 24 BY MR. KELLY: 1 25 Q. The third observation is that one of Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 131 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 the twisters is not provided with any kind of local 3 exhaust. What's a twister? 4 A. The twister was -- is when the yarns 5 come in, in the -- in the plant, then it gets 6 twisted before it gets braided. And twister is one 7 of those machines. 8 Q. And you remember before when one of the 9 directions that was issued by Cotgreave was that 10 the blue asbestos was not to be used without local 11 exhaust? 12 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 13 THE WITNESS: That's right. 14 BY MR. KELLY: 15 Q. Did this twister that was being used 16 for both chrysotile and crocidolite asbestos have 17 local exhaust? 18 A. It was not. And that's why I say that 19 it is desirable to have it. 20 Q. At this time, did you make any further 21 directions? 22 A. That's right. The three directions 23 were made as can be seen on page 3. 24 Q. Okay. And -- and what were those 25 directions? Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 132 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 MR. COLEMAN: Objection, as previously 3 stated. 4 THE WITNESS: The canopy in the hammer mill 5 enclosure shall be improved to provide better and 6 more effective dust control. 7 And in my comment, they could go back and 8 what I want them to do, an adequate local 9 mechanical exhaust shall provided at the twister. 10 Again, they can go to my comments and see what I 11 wanted them to do, and housekeeping shall be 12 improved in the hammer mill. 13 BY MR. KELLY: 14 Q. Al right. And at this time, did you 15 make the recommendation that further air sampling 16 should be done? 17 A. That's right. 18 Q. Let's look at Exhibit E. Did that air 19 sampling get performed? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And actually, this Exhibit E is a -- a 22 sampling from May 1, 1972, one that preceded that 23 visit in Exhibit D, right? 24 A. That's right. 25 Q. And first of all, this is a sampling Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 133 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans -10-25-05 I 2 that you requested, correct? j 'i 3 A. That's right. j 4 Q. And who was the company contact here? J 5 A. Mr. J . -- I would not have any idea who j 6 that person or what position was he on. j 7 Q. He was someone that worked for Garlock? { 8 A. Yeah. j I 9 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. | 10 BY MR. KELLY: I 11 Q. You just don't have a recollection of j 12 what his position was? 5 13 A. No. Mr. Polny might have, but I don't. \ 14 Because he was the one that contacted them. 15 Q. All right. At least as far as you can { 16 recall you never met a Mr. Vandereems? j I 17 A . No. ] 18 Q. Mr. Polny was the one that actually was j | 19 escorted by Vandereems, correct? { 20 A. That's correct. \ 21 Q. You simply received a copy of this j j 22 report at or near the time of its drafting, \ 23 correct? j 24 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. j 25 THE WITNESS: That's correct. j Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 134 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 BY MR. KELLY: 3 Q. And five samples were taken on this j 4 particular visit of April 28, 1972. And were any f j 5 of those considered to be high? j 6 A. Well -- 7 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 8 THE WITNESS: -- two of them was close to 9 the recommended five fibers. 10 And, by that time, the Ministry of Labour 11 was already thinking of reducing the -- the 12 recommended safe exposure level to two fibers per 13 c c . So, it would be twice the recommended limit of 14 asbestos at that time. 15 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. Move to strike. 16 Calls for an expert opinion. It's speculation. 17 BY MR. KELLY: j 1 18 Q. Let's go to ExhibitF. Again, is this 1 19 another copy of the letter sending to Garlock some j 20 air sampling results and surveys? j 21 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. j 22 THE WITNESS: Yeah. j 23 BY MR. KELLY: ( 24 Q. And, again, this is one of the ones 25 that was done by Nelson in accordance with the -- Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 135 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 the new policy of the Department of Health -- 3 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 4 BY MR. KELLY: 5 Q. -- with respect to passing on these 6 particular results on to the company, correct? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. If we turn to the second page, that 9 includes both the reports that we already looked at 10 in Tab C and Tab E, the May 25, 1971 air sampling 11 results, and the April 28, 1972 sampling results, 12 as well as a couple other reports; is that right? 13 A. That's right. 14 Q. And let's start on the report of air 15 sampling for asbestos from August 15, 1969. 16 Do you have that in front of you? 17 A. Yeah. 18 Q. And who is this report authored by? 19 A. This is by Stu Morton, who was one of 20 the scientists, not the technicians, of -- of the 21 lab, occupational health lab. 22 Q. And who were the company contacts that 23 escorted him when he did his sampling on this 24 occasion? 25 A. It can be seen, Mr. Rostas was there Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 136 j S 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans -10-25-05 j I% 2 again. Mr. Vandereems' name comes in, which was j 3 indicated before. And Mr. Rogers. j I 4 I don't recall either Vandereems or Rogers. j 5 MR. COLEMAN: Note my objection to the I 6 document itself. I don't see anywhere within the j \ 7 document that this witness had ever received it. ! j 8 He's being called as a fact witness. He doesn't 9 appear to be carbon copied, nor does he appear to j f 10 have been part of the August 15, 1969 report. j II 11 So, I object to any use of this report. j \ 1 12 MR. KELLY: All right. Well, let's -- let's j I I 13 try to clean that up, then. j 14 BY MR. KELLY: ! 15 Q. As you sit here today, Mr. Rajhans, do 16 you have a recollection of reviewing this I 17 particular report? 18 A. Yes, I do. Because as a dust control 19 specialist in charge of everything regarding dust 20 in the branch, each and every report or sampling 21 done for asbestos or, for that matter, any other 22 dust, has to go through my desk. 23 So, I do recall this. $ 24 And Mr. Morton would discuss with me after I 25 received a report what do I think of this report. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-F1NK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 137 j 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 So, yes, I do recall it. j 3 Q. So, you would have received it sometime j i 4 after the August 15, 1969 date? S 5 A. That's right. i 6 Q. And when you received the report, you j 7 said you also had some sort of contact with ! 8 Mr. Morton? J 9 A. Morton would call on me to find out if j 10 I received it. Because at that time, most of the j I 11 reports were sent by interoffice mail. I i. 12 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. J 13 BY MR. KELLY: f 14 Q. Okay. And with respect asbestos ; I 15 braiding, Mr. Morton found that -- he -- he | 16 analyzed the -- the number of braiders that were in j | 17 operation at the time, and he also found or was } I 18 told that South African Blue asbestos is used on a | I 19 very intermittent basis. j 20 Do you know where he got that information I 21 from? f 22 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. Hearsay. j 23 THE WITNESS: By -- actually, he must have ! 24 observed it. Because he said South African Blue 25 asbestos is used on a veryintermittentbasis. f Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 138 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 So either he was told, or he must have 3 observed it. I can't tell you exactly where he got 4 that information from. But he has clearly written 5 in i t . 6 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. Move to strike. 7 BY MR. KELLY: 8 Q. And the fact that Mr. Morton recorded 9 that the South African Blue asbestos is used on a 10 very intermittent basis and that the last time it 11 was used was six months prior to this visit, is 12 that consistent what Garlock was telling you upon 13 your visits about their use of asbestos -- 14 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 15 BY MR. KELLY: 16 Q. -- that was blue? 17 A. Yes. Yes. Very much so. 18 Q. And the air sampling results contained 19 on the second page, were any of those in excess of 20 what the TLV guideline was at that time of this 21 inspection? 22 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 23 THE WITNESS: Two of them. Two of them, 24 three and four. 25 BY MR. KELLY: Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 139 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. And the TLV at that time was five 3 fibers per milliliter of air? 4 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 5 THE WITNESS: No. I'm sorry. I -- I should 6 get -- go back, because it gets so confusing. 7 In 1970, it got changed to five. Until the 8 end of '69, it was still 12 fibers per milliliter. j 9 So, those will be under the TLV. ! 10 BY MR. KELLY: 11 Q. Okay. And, if you look in the air 12 sampling results section, did -- does it appear 13 that Mr. Morton used the five fibers when he was 14 using -- 15 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. j 16 MR. KELLY: You know, you've objected to j 17 every single question. And you keep objecting 18 during my questions and during his answers. And I j f 19 would just appreciate a little courtesy in your not II 20 doing that. i 21 We've got a court reporter that's struggling l 22 to get this down accurately. f 23 And, as much as we do have the videotape, it I 24 makes it very difficult for people to follow what's j 25 being done. ? Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 140 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 MR. COLEMAN: And I do appreciate that. And 3 I'm trying to get it in, I'm trying to guess where 4 your question is ending before the witness begins, 5 because he's beginning in a heartbeat. And I don't 6 wish to interrupt his answer. Which is why I 7 thought you were done, and I apologize, and I meant 8 no disrespect. 9 BY MR. KELLY: 10 Q. The air sampling results, does it 11 appear to you that Mr. Morton was comparing it to 12 you five fibers per milliliter of air based on the 13 second column of his sampling? 14 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 15 THE WITNESS: No. I think he was -- has not 16 mentioned what he was comparing with. So I would 17 not be able to say to you -- okay. 18 Let me go back to the first page, if I 19 could, please? 20 BY MR. KELLY: 21 Q. Well, just a sec. Let's -- let's -- 22 let's finish the question I've asked here. 23 If you go to the second page -- 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. -- and you look at the second column -- itfaisfcfesj. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 141 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. Yes. \ 3 Q. - - o f the analysis, what -- what's | 4 the -- the title there? j 5 A. Number of fibers greater than five S 6 microns per milliliter. j 7 Q . Okay. I 8 A. This is not -- not the TLV. This is { i 9 the size. f 10 Q. Okay. And that answered my question I 11 then. 12 A . Okay. 13 Q. And then did you find anything in the 14 report that outlined what he was -- what Morton was 15 comparing the TLV to? 16 A. 12 fibers per milliliter. 17 Q. Okay. And that was the existing TLV at 18 the time that 19 A . That's right. 20 Q. - - h e performed the sampling; is that 21 right? 22 A. That's right. 23 Q. Okay. And try -- try to let me finish 24 my -- my question before you answer. All right? 25 If we go to the next page, that's the same Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 142 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans -10-25-05 j I 2 as Tab C; is that right? Or Exhibit C? That we've j 3 already gone through? f I 4 A. Oh, yes. That's right. \ 5 Q. And the next page, the air sampling of j 6 May 1, 1972, that's the same document we went { 7 through under Tab E; is that correct? Exhibit E? j 8 A. Yeah. That's right. j 9 Q. The next document is an air sampling j I 10 result from samples taken April 28, '72 and j 11 reported May 2nd; is that right? ! 12 A. That's right. ? 13 Q. And was it Mr. Polny that took these f 14 particular samples? ? 15 A. That's right. j 16 Q. And what was the TLV in April of 1972? f 17 A. The TLV of nuisance dust at that time l 18 was five million particles per cubic foot. i 19 This is not the sampling for asbestos. This f 20 is sampling of total dust by impinger method. j 21 Q. All right. Let's go to Exhibit G. [ 22 First of all, this is a -- a memorandum from f 23 the Ontario Ministry of Labour; is that right? { f% 24 A. That's right. j 25 Q. And it's dated February 21 of 1975? j Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 143 1 Gyan Shankar R ajhan s - 1 0 -2 5 -0 5 f 2 A. That's right. J 3 Q. What is this particularmemorandum? 5 4 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. I 5 This individual does not appear to have been f 6 carbon copied nor the author of this article. So I { 7 object to its use for any purpose. f 1 8 MR. KELLY: You can stillanswer. | 9 THE WITNESS: This -- this is the -- this j 10 memorandum, from the director of industrial safety f 11 branch, Mr. McNair, to Dr. Tidey, the chief of the ; 12 service. And he is stating the fact that since the i 13 last assessment was made in 1972 by OSPB -- and by \ 14 the way, that's a typo there, it should be OHPB, 15 occupational health protection branch, not "S," i 16 should be replaced by "H" -- this firm had ? 17 installed a new asbestosmixer. s 18 So he wanted us to go and investigate it. i 19 BY MR. KELLY: \ 20 Q. Now, we talked about before how the j 21 Ministry of Labour would make a request to the i 22 Ministry of Health in order to have people like 1 23 yourself go in andperform your evaluations, right? j | 24 A. Yes. j I 25 Q.Is this the document that made that \ Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 144 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 request? 3 A. That's right. 4 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 5 BY MR. KELLY: 6 Q. And during your time as a dust control 7 specialist, did you have happen to see documents 8 like this particular request asking for services by 9 people like yourself to assist the Ministry of 10 Labour? 11 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 12 THE WITNESS: Yes. Because the -- the flow 13 of the paper of this kind of request will go from 14 the chief, to the officer in charge, Mr. Nelson, 15 who is shown here. And Mr. Nelson will then bring 16 that one to me because I will be the one who will 17 be conducting the visit. 18 BY MR. KELLY: 19 Q. During your time as chief, did you 20 receive inspection requests similar to the one 21 that's Exhibit G? 22 A. Yes. I did. 23 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 24 BY MR. KELLY: 25 Q. And does this one, Exhibit G, this Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 145 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 memorandum dated February 21, 1975 from McNair to 3 Tidey appear to be the same type of inspection 4 request that you were familiar with at the time in 5 1975 and later saw as chief? 6 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 7 THE WITNESS: That's right. 8 MR. KELLY: All right. Why don't we take a 9 break? 10 (Discussion off the record at 13:20.) 11 (The above-requested question was then read 12 by the reporter.) 13 (On the record at 13:26.) 14 BY MR. KELLY: 15 Q. Now, the Exhibit G, that first page f 16 that we were discussing, indicates that the firm ? i 17 has installed a new asbestos mixer in the sheeter 18 room, also a lot of asbestos dust on hammer mill, 19 same room, and on braiding machines. 20 Whose -- whose -- whose statement is that? 21 M R . COLEMAN: Obj ect io n . 22 THE WITNESS: This is the statement of the 23 director, based on one of his inspectors' 24 observation. 25 BY MR. KELLY: Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 146 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. And -- and which inspector would that 3 have been? 4 A. In this case, the inspector got changed 5 from Cotgreave to Mr. Chapman. 6 Q. And because of the -- well, let me ask 7 you this: What part of the -- the -- what's been 8 termed "the problem" was the Ministry of Health 9 being asked to get involved in? 10 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 11 THE WITNESS: The main problem was that 12 there was a lot of asbestos dust on hammer mill. 13 And -- and the same room which had hammer mill also 14 had braiding machines. But, also, because there 15 was new asbestos mixture, and at that time, when a 16 new machine is installed it's better to look at 17 that and -- and suggest to them the proper 18 ventilation needed for the machine rather than at a 19 later date. 20 BY MR. KELLY: 21 Q. Can you turn to the next page of that 22 Exhibit? 23 And what is this? 24 A. This is just to -- to indicate to the 25 company -- this was sent to the company to indicate J Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 147 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 that we have changed the asbestos limit from five 3 fibers to two fibers, and a new data sheet 4 indicating the change and the recommended control 5 measures is in this data sheet, Number 18, which is 6 being sent to them. 7 Q. And that's a February 12, 1975 letter? 8 A. That's right. 9 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 10 BY MR. KELLY: 11 Q. Correct? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And was this particular letter sent to 14 all of the various companies that used asbestos 15 when this change in the TLV was made? 16 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 17 THE WITNESS: That's right. 18 BY MR. KELLY: 19 Q. I want to talk to you about the data 20 sheet, Number 18, on asbestos. 21 Is this the same type of data sheet that you 22 described earlier? 23 A. Yes. 24 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 25 THE WITNESS: Yes. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 148 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 f I 2 BY MR. KELLY: I 3 Q. This data sheet, Number 18, on 4 asbestos, was this simply an updated data sheet 5 with the new TLV? 6 MR. COLEMAN: ^ Objection. 7 THE WITNESS: Yes. 8 BY MR. KELLY: 9 Q. Who, whether it be a person or a 10 particular department, was responsible for putting 11 out these data sheets on asbestos? 12 A. There was no separate department. 13 What will happen is that my boss, Hugh 14 Nelson -- H.M. Nelson -- and I at that time, would 15 get together as far as asbestos data sheet was 16 concerned. 17 There were all kinds of other data sheets on 18 other chemicals, and, but asbestos, he and I would 19 get together and review to see if there is any new 20 information, and whether that data sheet needed 21 updating. 22 Q. And we already talked before about how 23 the data sheet included the health hazards that 24 were associated with asbestos. 25 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 149 f 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 THE WITNESS: That's right. 3 BY MR. KELLY: 4 Q. And that included cancer? 5 A. That's right. 6 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 7 BY MR. KELLY: 8 Q. Cancer as to all -- all of the fiber 9 types? 10 A. That's right. 11 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 12 BY MR. KELLY: 13 Q. And the data sheets were provided, at 14 least on two occasions, one based on this 15 particular letter and one on the prior occasion 16 that you mentioned when you provided the data sheet 17 to Pilmer and Rostas that you're aware of, correct? 18 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 19 THE WITNESS: That's right. 20 BY MR. KELLY: 21 Q. Was there anything that prevented or 22 prohibited Garlock from providing the data sheets 23 that outlined the health hazards on asbestos to its 24 workers? 25 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 9 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 150 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 THE WITNESS: No. No. In fact, well 3 BY MR. KELLY: 4 Q. Let's go to Exhibit H. I 5 First of all, this particular document is I 6 the Ministry of Health occupational health 7 protection branch. Is that a different department I 8 than what you used to work for? I 9 A. No. Just the name got changed. 10 Q. Okay. So by April 8 of 1975, you were 11 doing the same work, but just under a different 12 branch name? 13 A. That's right. 14 Q. And this is, again, a field visit 15 report? 16 A. That1s right. 17 Q. And what was the date of the visit? 18 A. March 11th, 1975 19 Q. And the contacts were who? 20 A. ' Contacts were -- one of the contacts 21 was the old contact, Mr. Rostas, who at that time 22 had been promoted to senior plant engineer. 23 And there was this Mr. Popowich, who was the 24 chief chemist. 25 THE WITNESS: Should I spell that for you? Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 151 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 P-O-P-O-W-I-C-H. 3 BY MR. KELLY: 4 Q. In the second sentence of your report, 5 you indicated that the company is still handling 6 the blue asbestos rather carelessly. 7 What was it that you found that made you 8 write that statement? 9 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 10 THE WITNESS: What I recall, as far as I 11 recall, that the spools of asbestos dust were still 12 lying without any protection in -- in few places. 13 So, that, I considered carelessly. 14 BY MR. KELLY: 15 Q. And if we go to the third page where 16 you made your comments, do you -- do you have a 17 recollection of Garlock at any point telling you 18 that they'd stopped using the blue asbestos? 19 A. Yes. I -- to the best of my 20 recollection, I was told that -- on the phone -- 21 that they have stopped using blue asbestos 22 completely. 23 Q. And do you recall who was on the other 24 end of the phone -- 25 A. Mr. Rostas. f Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. -- that made that -- l 3 And was that sometime prior to this | 4 particular field visit that you -- j I 5 A. That's right. I 6 Q. -- received that phone call? j 7 A. That's right. ; 8 Q. When you went to theplanton March 11, j 9 1975, did you find anything that was contradictory I 10 to what Mr. Rostas had told you? I 11 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. j 1 12 THE WITNESS: Yes. As I mentioned on \ 13 page 3 -- this type of thing does not fail your | j 14 memory, because it was very disturbing to find that \ 15 even though the company had said they had to stop j 16 using blue asbestos, the asbestos braider spools I| . . 17 were found lying uncovered m various cartons at Ij 18 the back of the 8 Carrier heavy braider that they { 19 had. 20 BY MR. KELLY: 1 21 Q. You had communicated to Garlock almost 22 five years prior to that that there was no safe 23 level of exposure to the blue asbestos? 24 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 25 THE WITNESS: That's correct. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services TM n ri, Cir^t * New York. New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 153 | 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans -10-25-05 f 2 BY MR. KELLY: ; 3 Q. You also outline in the third paragraph f 4 of comment Number 1 about the amount of usage of j 5 blue asbestos that Garlock had been using at the 1 6 Jutland location. j 7 Do you know who it was that provided that { 8 information to you? j 9 A. I don't recall. But one of the company j 10 contacts did. j 11 Q. It would have been either Rostas or I 12 Popowich? I 13 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 14 THE WITNESS: Yes. It could be. 15 BY MR. KELLY: 16 Q. At this time, you also indicated to the ( 17 company that handling and storing of blue asbestos | 18 could also create exposure; is that right? II I 19 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. j 20 THE WITNESS: That's right. Ij 21 BY MR. KELLY: { 22 Q. And do you recall if that was a | 23 surprise to the company, that asbestos fibers could 24 be released into the air by operations other than 5 25 hammer milling and calendaring and things of that Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 154 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 nature? 3 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 4 THE WITNESS: It was. It was news to them. 5 BY MR. KELLY: 6 Q. Did the company make any attempts, that 7 you're aware of, in order to try to reduce exposure 8 from means other than the actual manufacturing of 9 the material, things like handling and storing? 10 A. I don't recall. 11 Q. If you go to comment Number 3, what was 12 found with respect to the asbestos samples that 13 were taken in March? 14 A. The counts ranged from 1.8 to 4.7 15 fibers per cc, with seven of the eight counts below 16 three fibers per c c . 17 The highest count, 4.7 fibers per cc, was 18 obtained at the hammer mill. 19 The operator of the hammer mill wears -- so 20 on. 21 Q. And what was the TLV at this time? 22 A. 2 fibers. 23 Q. And when did that change occur? 24 A. That occurred in 19 -- I have to go 25 back to my memory. But sometime at the beginning Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 of 1975. 3 Q. And in the second paragraph of the Page 155 I I 4 sampling results, one of the suggestions you made 5 was that Garlock acquire its own sampling apparatus 6 to monitor the environment on a more regular basis. 7 Do you know if Garlock ever did that? 8 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 9 THE WITNESS: No. 10 BY MR. KELLY: 11 Q. Do you know why they never did it? ? 12 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. { 13 THE WITNESS: No, I don't. ! 14 BY MR. KELLY: \ 15 Q. But at least, as far as you recall, j 16 Garlock never invested in sampling apparatuses of j 17 its own? j 18 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. j 19 THE WITNESS: Yes, I don't think they did. j 20 BY MR. KELLY: 21 Q. If we go to the next page of that j 22 Exhibit, again, this is a -- inspection request j 23 from Labour to the Department of Health Services, { 24 correct? I 25 A. Yes. j Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 156 j 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 I II 2 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. Note my objection | % 3 to the use of this document because, again, it does I I| 4 have the witness's name on it. < 5 THE WITNESS: Yes, it does. j 6 MR. COLEMAN: I'm sorry. I apologize for j 7 that. I f 8 BY MR. KELLY: j | 9 Q. And this particular inspection request S 10 was made as a result of a joint inspection that you i J 11 were at with which of the industrial safety branch j 12 personnel? * 13 A. At that time, I was with Mr. Cotton, \ 14 whose name is at the end. W. Cotton. i 15 Q. C-O-T-T-O-N. | 16 A. Bill. Bill Cotton. I 17 Q. And do you recall why it was you were 18 present with Mr. Cotton when he performedhis j 19 investigation? j \ 20 A. Because he had found barrels and carton j 21 of blue asbestos. | 22 Q. And this was in the early-1975 period ( 23 when Garlock had previously conveyed to youthat j 24 they'd stopped using the blue asbestos,correct? f 25 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. I Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 9 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 157 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 j c i 2 THE WITNESS: That's right. I I 3 BY MR. KELLY: 4 Q. The next page is a document dated ? 5 March 24, 1975. What is that? 6 A. That is a memorandum from my boss, Hugh 7 Nelson -- by that time, his title had changed, but 8 he remained my boss, from officer in charge to 9 senior engineering consultant -- to his boss, 10 Dr. Tidey, who had become acting director at that % 11 time. And this is about Garlock of Canada because 12 Dr. Tidey had asked, perhaps, to take some action. 13 I'm saying perhaps intentionally because it does 14 say reference to your action request. 1 15 Q. Now, would this be considered sort of 16 an internal memorandum within the Ministry of 17 Health? I 18 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. I i 19 THE WITNESS: It is very -- it is very 20 internal, yes. 21 BY MR. KELLY: 22 Q. And as much as Garlock was being copied 1 23 on things like the field visit reports and the air I 24 sampling results, would this be the kind of 25 document that Garlock would have received a copy I Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-F1NK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 158 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 of? 3 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 4 THE WITNESS: No. 5 BY MR. KELLY: I 6 Q. You received a copy of this at the time 7 it was it made? 8 A. That's right. 9 Q. And in this particular note, Mr. Nelson 10 concluded that he didn't think that another visit } 11 was -- was necessary at this time? 12 A. That's right. 13 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 14 BY MR. KELLY: ? 15 Q. Exhibit I, do you have that in front of I i 16 you? I 17 A. Yes. ttt 18 Q. Is this the document that you received? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And who did you receive it from? 21 A. From Garlock. 22 Q. And it actually has the Garlock of 23 Canada Limited letterhead on it, doesn't it? 24 A. That's right. 25 Q. And -- and its dated M a y 30, 1975? Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 159 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. Urn-hum. Yes. 3 Q. And -- and who is it from? 4 A. This is from Mr. Woods of Garlock 5 Canada, thanking me for the technical papers on 6 jute and hemp. 7 Q. And we went through this before, but 8 jute and hemp are two of the materials that can be 9 used, other than asbestos, in making gaskets, 10 correct? 11 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 12 THE WITNESS: That'S right. 13 BY MR. KELLY: 14 Q. Do you know why it was that you 15 provided technical on jute and hemp to Mr. Woods? 16 A. Because the company was looking for 17 using jute and hemp, and wanted to know if there 18 was any hazards associated with them, as well. 19 Just like asbestos. And I had some papers with me 20 which I forward to them. 21 Q. And the documents that are attached to 22 this particular letter, do you know why those were 23 sent by Mr. Woods to you? 24 A. They were indicating which machine and 25 what kind of jute and hemp they are going to be Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 160 S 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 I 2 using or importing or bringing to the plant. And I 3 then also showing where blue asbestos will be used I 4 and how much that will be. 5 So, it was combination of every material 6 that they had or the list of every material that 7 they might have had or they will have in the plant. 8 Q. When you received things from the ! 9 company, like Exhibit I, was this something that 10 was kept -- strike that. ! 11 When one of the companies provided stuff to ! 12 the Ministry of Health regarding their operations 13 like Exhibit I, was that included in the file for 14 that particular company? 15 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 16 THE WITNESS: That's right. I 17 BY MR. KELLY: 18 Q. And that was part of the policy of the 19 Ministry of Health to -- 20 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 21 BY MR. KELLY: 22 Q. -- keep such documents? 23 THE WITNESS : That's right. 24 BY MR. KELLY: 25 Q. When you received it, you were - you Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 161 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 forwarded it on, it looks like, to your supervisor. 3 And it was stamped as received. And that's the 4 stamp on the bottom right corner, correct? 5 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 6 THE WITNESS: That's right. 7 BY MR. KELLY: 8 Q. Exhibit J. What is Exhibit J? 9 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. This witness's 10 name does not appear on this document. 11 Therefore -- 12 MR. KELLY: It does. 13 MR. COLEMAN: On the first cover letter? I 14 didn't see it. 15 THE WITNESS: Not the cover, but the 16 attachment. 17 BY MR. KELLY: 18 Q. What is Exhibit J? 19 A. J is just sending the air sampling 20 results to the company under the acting director of 21 occupational health protection branch signature. 22 Q. And the acting director was Mr. Tidey? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And this is, again, him forwarding on a 25 copy of a report to Garlock, correct? Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 162 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 3 THE WITNESS: That's right. 4 BY MR. KELLY: 5 Q. With the same type of cover letter that 6 we saw previously that was part of the policy of 7 the Ministry of Health in passing on information to 8 the company? 9 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 10 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 11 BY MR. KELLY: 12 Q. And attached to the cover letter isthe j 13 report of November 7, 1975 referenced in the 14 letter, which you received a copy of and actually f 15 requested, correct? i 16 A. That's right. f 17 Q. And you recall receiving this j Ii 18 particular document during your employment with the 19 Ministry of Health? 20 A. Yes. j 21 Q. And what is this particular document? | 22 A. This particular document, again, by 23 Mr. Polny, was our sampling technician, he did f j 24 asbestos sampling on various braiding machines and 1 25 other places like sheeter room and, again, just the | Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 163 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 braider and sheeter room. And reported the counts. 3 Q. At the place where it says "copies to," 4 there's some names that we haven't seen before. 5 Who is Mr. Cleverdon? 6 A. Mr. Cleverdon was, at that time, acting 7 director of industrial safety branch, because 8 Mr. McNair, who was the director at one time if you 9 recall seeing his name, was on extended leave. So 10 will Mr. Cleverdon took over as acting director. 11 Mr. Morton, you saw his name appearing 12 previously, he was one of the scientists who -- who 13 had taken over an acting role from Mr. Wall, Eddie 14 Wall, that you saw previously of the lab. So he 15 was in charge of the -- Morton was in charge of the 16 lab at that time. 17 Cleverdon was in charge of industrial safety 18 branch. 19 My -- I sent a -- like, Polny sent me a 20 copy. 21 Then Dr. Vingilis was in charge of the chest 22 disease service. 23 Mr. Bell was working for me. So, he would 24 receive a copy. 25 And Mr. Woods was one of the technicians. Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 164 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. Let's go to Exhibit K. What is this 3 particular document? 4 A. This particular document is, again, 5 sampling and analysis done by Mr. Polny on February 6 the 3rd, 1977, and sending all of us the copies of 7 the reports to comment on. 8 It was requested by Jim Toth, who was my -- 9 one of my hygienists working under me, and he had 10 requested a sampling. 11 Q. Okay. Let's start at the top there 12 where you see where it says Ministry, and it's 13 crossed out, and it's typed in "Labour?" 14 A. Yeah. 15 Q. And then underneath -- 16 A. Because by that time, we were 17 transferred to the Ministry of Labour -- 18 Q . Okay. 19 A. -- but our -- our, like, did not 20 change. The stationery does not get changed in the 21 Ministry in the government that often, and that 22 quickly, because government doesn't have that kind 23 of money. 24 Q. So this was soon after the -- the time 25 that the Ministry of Health became part of the Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 165 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Ministry of Labour -- 3 A. That's right. 4 Q. - - a t least your department, in the 5 environmental services branch? 6 A. That's right. 7 Q. And the contact here was Mr. Sibbald, 8 and then it says "Manager of Eng.?" Do you know 9 what that is? 10 A. Manager of engineering of Garlock. 11 That's all I can say. 12 Mr. Rostas must have left by then or could 13 have been promoted. I don't know, because 14 Mr. Polny contacted him. And that's how the 15 designation is shown here. 16 Q. Okay. Did any of the -- the samples 17 find asbestos fibers greater than the TLV? 18 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 19 THE WITNESS: No. No. But, one or two was 20 close to the TLV. 21 BY MR. KELLY: 22 Q. Okay. And -- and, again, as with all 23 the prior air samples, in 1977, did the person that 24 was tasked with doing the samples still have to 25 make an appointment such that the company knew when Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 166 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 and at what time asbestos sampling would be done in 3 the plant? 4 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 5 THE WITNESS: Yes. That policy never 6 changed. 7 BY MR. KELLY: 8 Q. Exhibit L. 9 MR. COLEMAN: Objection to the use of this 10 document. It's not even signed. 11 BY MR. KELLY: 12 Q. Mr. Rajhans, is this a -- a document 13 that was dictated by you? 14 A. It was -- 15 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 16 THE WITNESS: -- it was -- it was dictated 17 by me. And the -- my secretary was told that 18 rather than bringing each and every cover letter to 19 me, she should just put on an stamp. 20 I -- I -- I remember this very vividly, 21 because that -- a special stamp was -- was made 22 which would indicate that original was signed by 23 m e , 24 BY MR. KELLY: 25 Q. And it was part of the procedure in the Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 167 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 department at the time that you held the position 3 of chief occupational health engineering that you 4 only signed the one copy, and then the stamp would 5 be on the other copies? 6 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 7 THE WITNESS: Exactly. 8 Q. And do you see in the bottom left-hand 9 corner where it says "GSR?" 10 A. gg. GSR is my initials. 11 Q. And what does that indicate? 12 A. That indicates that they were typed for 13 me. That's why GSR. And gg are the initials of my 14 secretary. 15 Q. Okay. So this was a document that was 16 prepared at your request and you saw it and signed 17 the original? 18 A. That's right. 19 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 20 BY MR. KELLY: 21 Q. And this is, again, a similar letter to 22 the ones that we saw previously signed by Nelson 23 where the chief was providing copies of reports to 24 the company, Garlock? 25 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 2' Page 168 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 THE WITNESS: Yes. 3 BY MR. KELLY: 4 Q. And at this -- by this time, June 2nd 5 of 1978, you had been promoted up to the position 6 of chief of occupational health engineering? 7 A. That's right. 8 Q. So Nelson's job of passing things on to 9 the company had become yours? 10 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 11 THE WITNESS: That's right. 12 BY MR. KELLY: 13 Q. Page 2, this is a memorandum that was 14 received by you as chief, correct? 15 A. That's right. 16 Q. And what was the purpose of this 17 memorandum? 18 A. This is the report that -- this is how 19 I had changed the process of reporting. In other 20 words, if one of my hygienists receives a report 21 from the sampling technician, then he is 22 responsible of interpreting the results and then 23 his interpretation with the sampling results will 24 be passed on to me to be forwarded to the company. 25 Q. And what were the results of this Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 169 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 particular sample? 3 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 4 THE WITNESS: That is shown in the attached 5 report by Latty -- or Latty, L-A-T-T-Y. 6 BY MR. KELLY: 7 Q. And by this time in 1978, did -- did 8 Mr. Latty work under your direction? 9 A. He was working. He was one of the 10 technicians. 11 Q. And you would have received in your 12 capacity as chief copies of all of the various 13 reports, whether it be a field report or a air 14 quality assessment report, of all the various 15 employees that worked under your direction; is that 16 right? 17 A. All reports have to go through my desk 18 before it went out. 19 Q. If we look at the page 2 of the June 1, 20 1978 report, the -- the first section appears to be 21 broken down by personal samples. What does that 22 mean? 23 A. These personal samples at that time 24 only were identified by certain codes because we 25 did not want to name the workers. Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 170 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 These personal samples were done on the 3 lapel of the workers. And we did not want to name 4 those workers, because it was against our policy. 5 Q. So, just like how today you're wearing 6 an AIHA pin -- 7 A. Yeah. 8 Q. - - o n your lapel, the worker would wear 9 some sort of a -- a filter in order to pull air 10 through in order to measure the exposure to the 11 worker? 12 A. Yes, sir. 13 Q. And then those results were analyzed in 14 the lab and recorded in the report? 15 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 16 THE WITNESS: That's right. 17 BY MR. KELLY: 18 Q. The -- the area samples, what does that 19 refer to? 20 A. That's just stationary samples in the 21 area. 22 Q. What kind of work was being done in the 23 sheeter room? 24 A. Just making sheets out of the milled 25 asbestos. And also cutting. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 - n Page 171 | I 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 I 2 Q. So in the sheeter room, they would 3 actually be rolling out the sheets of gasket 4 material and then cutting out the rounded -- 5 A. That's right. 6 Q. -- gaskets from the material? 7 A. That's right. 8 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 9 BY MR. KELLY: 10 Q. And what was the amount of asbestos 11 dust that was found in the air in asbestos -- in 12 the sheeter room? 13 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. j 14 THE WITNESS : The area samples show the fI 15 count, and these -- these, you have to understand, j 16 is the background count, because there's no -- i 17 personal samples are above. These are half a fiber j 18 per milliliter. Half a fiber per milliliter. 5 19 BY MR. KELLY: j 20 Q. And -- and what was the -- what was the I 21 total fiber count that you found? ; 22 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. ; 23 BY MR. KELLY: \ 24 Q. Is thatthe 0.43 number? i 25 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. f Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 172 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 THE WITNESS: That's right. These are 3 the -- the background counts. 4 BY MR. KELLY: 5 Q. All right. And you also, the -- the 6 Ministry also had personnel samples on two of the 7 people that worked in the sheeter room; is that 8 right? 9 A. That's right. 10 Q. And what was the fiber counts that they 11 found on the actual workers in the breathing zone 12 of the -- 13 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 14 BY MR. KELLY: 15 Q. -- people working in the sheeter room? 16 A. It varied -- it varied from 0.4 to 1.3. 17 Much -- much higher than -- than the background 18 count of the area samples. 19 Q. If we go to the folded gasket area 20 sample, first of all, what operation is the folded 21 gasket area? What do they do there? 22 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 23 THE WITNESS: I don't recall. 24 BY MR. KELLY: 25 Q. Okay. What about the spiral -- spiral Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 173 \ 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans -10-25-05 | 2 wand gasket area? Do you know what they do there? | 3 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. = 4 THE WITNESS: I don't recall that, either. j 5 BY MR. KELLY: * 6 Q. The asbestos braiding area? t 7 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. i 8 THE WITNESS: Yeah, that, obviously -- all | 9 the braiding machines were there. So that's why ; 10 it's called asbestos braiding area. j 11 BY MR. KELLY: f1 12 Q. And what was the area sample? \ 13 A. At that time, it was .051 fibers per f 14 milliliter. And -- yeah, go ahead. 15 Q. And was there a personal sample for the \ 16 braiding area? \ 17 A. Is. Asbestos braider operator, and j 18 that was 1.4. 5 19 Q. Exhibit M, this is an air quality j 20 assessment report, correct? j 21 A. That's right. i 22 Q. This is a document that would j 23 have crossed your desk -- 1 1 24 A. That's right. j 25 Q. -- as the chief in 1979? j $ Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 174 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 3 THE WITNESS: That's right. 4 BY MR. KELLY: 5 Q. And this, again, outlines the results 6 of air sampling for asbestos and also for jute? 7 A. Yes. 8 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 9 BY MR. KELLY: 10 Q. If you turn to the -- the second page, j 11 is this sort of the -- the new format that was | 12 being used in 1979 to record sampling results of 5 ! 13 the Ministry of Labour, occupational health branch? 14 A. Yes. j 15 Q. And on the second page of that 16 particular sampling results, I think it starts with t 17 sample number 15, 13, 20, 17. Do you have that in 18 front of you? 19 A. Yeah. 20 Q. On sample number 13, what -- what's 21 gasket cutter (Relco machine,) what does that f s> 22 reference? I i 23 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. ! 24 THE WITNESS: This was automatic cutter j 25 of from the sheet of the gasket which will ! I Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 175 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 fall -- gasket will fall off, and it will go and 3 exact size of the gasket -- 4 BY MR. KELLY: 5 Q. So, was it -- 6 A. -- will be cut out of that sheet. 7 Q. It was an automated process by which 8 the -- the flat sheets of gasket material had the 9 rounded gasket in various diameters cut from it? 10 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 11 THE WITNESS: Exactly. 12 BY MR. KELLY: 13 Q. And obviously, the -- the gasket 14 material contained asbestos, which is why you were 15 performing samples around it? 16 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 17 THE WITNESS: That's right. During -- 18 during the cutting. 19 BY MR. KELLY: 20 Q. And because there's that handwritten 21 S. 21, does that mean this was a personal sample? 22 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 23 THE WITNESS: That's right. 24 BY MR. KELLY: 25 Q. And that's where basically the name of Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 176 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 the person has been redacted? 3 A. That's right. 4 Q. And what was the amount that you found 5 of asbestos in the air on the personal sample of 6 the gasket cutter? 7 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 8 THE WITNESS: It was less than .1, as you 9 can see. So -- 10 BY MR. KELLY: 11 Q. And what about with respect to the next 12 one? Sample number 20. What -- what does packing 13 gaskets refer to? 14 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 15 THE WITNESS: Packing gaskets, is as the 16 gaskets are cut out from the sheeter, they are 17 manually taken to the packing room and stacked up 18 and packed. 19 BY MR. KELLY: ! 20 Q. Like, actually, physically packing them I 21 in a box? I 22 A . Box. 23 Q. And there was a -- a personal sample 24 taken of the person that was responsible for 25 packing the materials -- i I Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 177 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. That's right. 3 Q. -- in boxes? 4 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 5 BY MR. KELLY: 6 Q. And what was the amount of asbestos 7 fibers found in the air from the simple task of 8 packing gaskets in a box? 9 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 10 THE WITNESS: Not -- not much. Not detected 11 to less than 0.1. 12 BY MR. KELLY: 13 Q. Does that mean that there were zero 14 fibers found? 15 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 16 THE WITNESS: You can say that, but 17 nobody -- we never say zero. We say nondetected, 18 because it depends on the procedure, how the -- how 19 they instrument. That's why we never say zero. 20 BY MR. KELLY: 21 Q. The next page, is simply just a 22 memorandum that you received; is that right? From 23 Holmes? 24 A. Excuse me? Oh. Are you talking 25 about -- yeah. The first page? _J Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 178 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 II 2 Q. Sorry. The first page. 3 A. Yeah. ! I 4 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. I 5 BY MR. KELLY: 6 Q. It's a memorandum dated September 6, l ; 7 1979? 8 A . That's right. 9 Q. And that was a -- a memorandum that you 10 received in your capacity as chief? 11 A. That's right. 12 Q. Exhibit N. 13 MR. COLEMAN: Again, note my objection to j 14 Exhibit N, as the witness's name does not appear on 15 the face of this document. There's no indication 16 he ever received it. 17 BY MR. KELLY: : 18 Q. Who is Peter Pelmear? | 19 A. Peter Pelmear had, at that time, chief j 20 of occupational health and medical service. 21 And, just like me as chief of the hygiene j 22 service, there was health medical service where I 23 medical doctors will work. And he was head of ; I 24 them. j 25 Q. And the next page is field visit report > Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 179 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 of October 19, 1979, and you were copied on that 3 document, correct? 4 A. That's right. 5 Q. Was it the routine procedure that the 6 chief be copied on each and every report with 7 respect to a company? 8 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 9 THE WITNESS: That's right. 10 BY MR. KELLY: 11 Q. And this particular visit report is in 12 reference to a medical audit visit. What is that? 13 A. What used to happen is that for certain 14 substances, at that time, we had started, or rather 15 the entire Ministry had started medical programs, 16 in other words, biological samples being taken, 17 x-rays being taken, and everything at the cost of 18 the government. 19 But these substances were called -- 20 so-called designated substances, and only few and 21 far between. We could have not done for 22 everything. But asbestos was one of the target 23 substances or designated substances. 24 Q. And with respect to this particular 25 report, it also indicates that there's going to be Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 180 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 an assessment of the medical surveillance program. 3 Is that a medical program that Garlock ran? 4 A. No. 5 Q. That was one that the Ministry ran? 6 A. Ministry ran. 7 Q. Do you know if Garlock ever had its own 8 medical surveillance program? 9 A . N o . I don't . 10 Q. And so then the reference in the 11 comments section to The Evans Medical Clinic, 12 number 3 there, is that a reference to a clinic 13 that was utilized by the Ministry? 14 A. That's right. 15 Q. Let's go to Exhibit 0. 16 MR. COLEMAN: Again, note my objection. 17 Oh, I'm sorry. Withdraw it. 18 MR. KELLY: You got rhythm, you know. 19 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 20 MR. COLEMAN: Yes, well, I still object 21 because I'm not sure if it's his signature. I 22 really can't tell. Someone signed it on behalf of 23 the doctor, so I object to its utilization here. 24 BY MR. KELLY: 25 Q. This is a January 18, 1980 cover letter Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 59 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 181 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 under your name, correct? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And is the signature yours? 5 A. No. That's the signature of my 6 assistant, Sam Bell. 7 Q. And did -- did Sam have the -- have 8 your authorization to sign cover letters to the 9 various companies that included reports and other 10 assessments of -- of the company? 11 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 12 THE WITNESS: That's right. 13 BY MR. KELLY: 14 Q. And what would occasion Sam to sign 15 such a letter on your behalf? 16 A. When I'm -- I was on vacation. 17 Q. And even though -- even though Sam 18 signed the letter, would you have still been the 19 one who have dictated it? 20 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 21 THE WITNESS: I would have dictated it or 22 not, this was a form, a covering letter, but I 23 would have seen it as on my return each and every 24 letter that went out. And attachment. 25 BY MR. KELLY: Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 182 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. And in this instance, the air quality 3 assessment report was being sent to Mr. Millican, 4 the vice-president of Garlock? 5 A. Yeah. 6 Q. And the report itself is entitled AQA 7 Report. What does that mean? 8 A. Air quality assessment report. Which 9 is another fancy name for sampling. 10 Q. And what is the -- what -- what -- what 11 were the results of the samples that were taken? 12 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 13 THE WITNESS: All results were below the 14 Ontario guideline value of two fibers greater than 15 five micron in length. 16 BY MR. KELLY: 17 Q. And at this point, in 1980, was Garlock 18 still using blue asbestos, do you know? 19 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 20 THE WITNESS: I would not really know 21 firsthand unless I read the report of those people. 22 Because -- remember, that as chief, I would not go 23 to the plant as often. So whatever the report 24 said, I will have to agree. 25 BY MR. KELLY: I Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 183 j 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans -10-25-05 ; j 2 Q. And -- and based on that report, it f 3 doesn't say one way or the other, does it? J 4 A . No. j 5 Q. Okay. And in the next attachment to 6 your cover letter to the company is enclosing the 7 January 14, 19800 -- 8 A. Are you still on Tab O? 9 10 A. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. | 11 Q. I t ' s -- i t 's a -- includes the j 12 January 14th, 1980 report ofPolivka? I 13 A. That's right. J 14 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. i j 15 BY MR. KELLY: 16 Q. And who is Polivka? I 17 A. Polivka was one of thetechnicians, the J %| 18 sampling technicians, just like Polny. | i* 19 Q. And, again, thisparticular report j 20 included asbestos sampling results; is that right? f | 21 A. That's right. j 22 Q. Exhibit P. j 23 MR. COLEMAN: Again, note my objection. \ 24 That is not the witness's signature. 25 BY MR. KELLY: I I Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 184 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. Is this a similar situation as the last 3 one where Sam Bell was given the authority to sign 4 in your absence? 5 A. That's right. 6 Q. And you would havereviewed what Sam 7 signed on this particular form letter after your 8 return, correct? 9 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 10 THE WITNESS: That's right. 11 BY MR. KELLY: 12 Q. This is a document you've seen before? 13 A. That's right. 14 Q. And at this instance, you'reproviding 15 to Garlock a copy of the April 23, 1980 visit 16 report which is actually an April 28th report, 17 isn't it? 18 A. That's right. 19 Q. Exhibit Q, that is a memorandum that 20 you received from Pikk. Who is Pikk? 21 A. Pikk was one of the hygienists working 22 for me. Haddus Pikk. P-I-K-K. 23 Q. And is this a document that you've seen 24 before? 25 A. Yes. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 185 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. And it appears to be in the same format 3 of other memorandums that were written in 1980 4 internally in the Ministry of Labour? 5 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 6 THE WITNESS: That's right. 7 BY MR. KELLY: 8 Q. The next part of Exhibit Q is the air 9 quality assessment report of Dutka. Who is Dutka? 10 A. Dutka was one of the technician hired. 11 Q. And Dutka had performed samplings, is 12 that the basis of this report? 13 A. That's right. 14 Q. Sampling for asbestos? 15 A. Requested by Mr. Pikk, who was one of 16 the hygienists. 17 Q. And based on this, Garlock was still 18 using asbestos in its operations in October of 19 1980, or sorry, September of 1980, correct? 20 A. That's what -- what the report says. 21 Q. And this is, again, a report that you 22 would have received at the time in your capacity as 23 chief? 24 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 25 THE WITNESS: That's right. Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 186 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 BY MR. KELLY: 3 Q. Last is Tab R. 4 MR. COLEMAN: Same objection. It doesn't 5 appear to be the witness's signature. 6 BY MR. KELLY: 7 Q. Do you recognize the signature that's 8 above your name as chief on this document? 9 A. Very well. This was Henry Todd. And 10 he was one of the senior hygienists under me. 11 If I and Sam Bell -- the way it worked is if 12 I'm away for anything, Sam Bell will sign. If both 13 of us are away, then Henry will sign for me. 14 Q. And in this instance, Henry signed when 15 he was providing certain documents to Garlock that 16 are included in this Exhibit? 17 A. That's right. 18 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 19 BY MR. KELLY: 20 Q. This is a document that you would have 21 seen upon your return back at the office, correct? 22 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 23 THE WITNESS: That's right. 24 BY MR. KELLY: 25 Q. Now, we've already gone through this adi Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 187 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 before in some detail, but, you were provided -- I 3 think it was -- 211 documents that were received 4 through basically the equivalent of a Freedom of 5 Information Act request directed to the Province of 6 Ontario. 7 And you've had an opportunity to go through 8 all of those various documents, haven't you? 9 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 10 THE WITNESS: That's right. 11 BY MR. KELLY: 12 Q. And all of those documents were 13 documents that you're familiar with from having 14 drafted them or received them or simply having 15 reviewed them in your various capacities at the 16 Ministry of Health and later the Ministry of 17 Labour, correct? 18 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 19 THE WITNESS: That's -- that's -- that's a 20 correct statement. 21 BY MR. KELLY: 22 Q. And all of those documents were made 23 and maintained by the Ministry of Health during its 24 ordinary course of business, correct? 25 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 59 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 188 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 THE WITNESS: That's right. 3 BY MR. KELLY: 4 Q. And 5 A . And Ministry of Labour. I'm sorry to 6 interject. Both Ministries. 7 Q. Right. Both the Ministry of Health and 8 the Ministry of Labour -- 9 A. Right. 10 Q. -- made those documents in the ordinary 11 course of business, and also maintained them in the 12 ordinary course of business? 13 A. That's right. 14 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 15 BY MR. KELLY: 16 Q. The documents that we've gone through 17 in detail today -- well, let me ask you this more 18 broader question. 19 The documents that you went through today 20 were a part of those various documents totaling 21 about 211 pages, correct? 22 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. 23 THE WITNESS: That's right. 24 BY MR. KELLY: 25 Q. And of all of the -- the various Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 189 j 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans -10-25-05 j 2 documents, they appeared not only to be of the kind | 3 utilized by the Ministry of Health and the Ministry j | 4 of Labour, but they appeared to be authentic in the J | 5 sense that they were not altered or tampered with j 6 in any way? j 7 MR. COLEMAN: Objection. { 8 THE WITNESS: Yes. I % 9 MR. KELLY: I have no morequestions. j If 10 MR. COLEMAN: Should we take a break, then, j | 11 before we begin? j 12 MR. KELLY: Let's do that. j 13 (Luncheon recess, off the record at14:14.) I 14 (On the record at 14:53.) i 15 16 EXAMINATION BY MR. COLEMAN: 17 18 Q. Mr. Rajhans, my name is Bob Coleman, 19 and I am going to be asking you some questions. 20 And the same rules apply. 21 If you do not understand any question that 22 ask you, just let me know and I'll rephrase the 23 question. 24 Even though it's an informal setting, if you 25 simply go ahead and answer the question, I will Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-F1NK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 assume that you understood it, and I'll hold you to 3 it at a later time. Okay? 4 A. Thank you. Okay. 5 Q. Okay. Now, sir, first, are you -- when 6 were you first contacted regarding this deposition, i 7 do you recall? 8 A. Yes. I recall very well. It was 9 Thanksgiving -- Canadian Thanksgiving weekend. 10 Q. Okay. And when is that? 11 A. Oh. October. October. I'm sorry, 12 it's Thanksgiving weekend, I know, but it's 15th or 13 something, October 15th or something. 14 Q. And that would have been October of the 1I 15 year 2004? j 16 A. No, 2005. 17 Q. Oh, okay. This year. 18 And was it the beginning of October? I 19 mean, we just -- 20 A. No, no, no. It was -- the Thanksgiving 21 weekend the towards the second or third week of 22 October. 23 Q. Okay. So within the last week you were 24 contacted? I 25 A. Yeah. Two two weeks. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 191 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. Today is October 25th, I believe. So, 3 if you were contacted two weeks ago, you were 4 first 5 A . Two weeks. 6 Q. Okay. Sometime around October 11th? 7 A. Something like that yes. 8 Q. Okay. And who was it that first made 9 contact with you concerning this case? 10 A. John Comerford. 11 Q. Okay. And was that by telephone? Or 12 was there a letter written? 13 A. By telephone. 14 Q. Okay. And what, if anything, did 15 Mr. Comerford tell you? 16 A. He just asked me if I would like to 17 take part in this deposition. 18 Q. Okay. Did he tell you what the 19 parameters of the deposition would be? Or what you 20 would be testifying about? 21 A. He -- no, he didn't. He just asked me 22 if I would be willing to do it. 23 Q. Okay. And I see that you have with you 24 a book, and a number of documents? 25 A. Yes. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 192 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. Okay. When had you received that book 3 and who sent it to you? 4 A. This was sent to me by Comerford's 5 office. 6 Q. Okay. And do you recall when it was 7 that you received that book? 8 A. Just last -- in last ten days. 9 Exactly, I would not know. But in last ten days. 10 Q. Okay. And may I see that, sir? 11 Thank you. 12 MR. COLEMAN: Can we go off the record for 13 just a second? 14 (Discussion off the record at 14:55.) 15 (On the record at 14:56.) 16 BY MR. COLEMAN: 17 Q. And Mr. Rajhans, had you ever received 18 anything other than that binder -- did you receive 19 any correspondence, for instance -- letting you 20 know when and where the deposition would be? 21 A. I received -- by E-mail? Or by 22 writing? Or -- 23 Q. By either. 24 A. Yes, I did receive -- 25 Q . Okay. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 I Page 193 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. - - a n E-mail -- 3 Q . Okay. 4 A. -- saying -- 5 Q. And what was it -- 6 A. -- saying when the deposition would 7 take place. 8 Q. Other than by E-mail, did you receive 9 anything in writing? Other than -- 10 A. No. 11 Q. -- the binder that's before you? 12 A. No. 13 Q. The E-mails that you did receive, how 14 many E-mails did you get? 15 A. Just one, I think. 16 Q. Okay. Did you bring a copy of that 17 E-mail with you today? 18 MR. KELLY: That assumes that he was asked 19 to do so. 20 MR. COLEMAN: I -- it's not assuming 21 anything. 22 BY MR. COLEMAN: 23 Q. I'm just asking if you brought a copy 24 with you. 25 A. No, I didn't. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 194 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. Okay. Do you recall what E-mail did 3 say? What was contained within the E-mail? 4 A. The E-mail was from John Comerford 5 saying that the date of deposition is now on 25th 6 of October, but didn't give any specific time. 7 And then if it is okay with me. Something I 8 of that. 9 Q. Okay. And since that initial telephone 10 call which was followed up by an E-mail, you then 11 received the binder that is before you. 12 Have you received anything else concerning 13 this deposition? 14 A. I did receive one CD which contained 15 all the Garlock documents they had received from 16 the Ministry. 17 Q. Okay. So, did you bring that CD with 18 you here today? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Okay. Do you still -- 21 MR. KELLY: I'll represent for the record, 22 though, that has been disclosed in this case. All 23 those documents of which the Exhibits marked today 24 are a copy of. 25 MR. COLEMAN: Are you representing that the Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans -10-25-05 2 CD contained nothing other than the what is 3 contained in that three-ring folder? Page 195 j | 1 | I I | 4 MR. KELLY: No. What I'm indicating is that J 5 the CD contained all of the 200, and I think, 11 ! i i 6 documents 7 MR COLEMAN: Okay. 1 . . 1 8 MR. KELLY: -- received from the Ministry. I 9 And those documents, of course, include the 10 documents which we've marked today and gone 11 through. 12 BY MR. COLEMAN: 13 Q. Did you ever receive a copy of all 202 | 14 documents other than by the CD? 1 15 A. No. \j 16 Q. Okay. So when you had received the } 17 material, someone had already culled down the \ i 18 number of documents to what is in that blue folder f 19 right now; is that correct? 20 A. That's right. j 21 Q. Okay. The CD, did it have any j 22 introductory letter or anything with it? 23 A. No. f 24 Q. Okay. And how had you received the CD? \ 25 A. By mail. | t Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q . Okay. 3 A. By Fed-Ex. 4 Q. Okay. And when you received that, was 5 there a letter contained within the Fed-Ex 6 envelope? Or was it the CD by itself? 7 A. Just the CD. 8 Q. Okay. Now, prior to this deposition, 9 have you ever talked to Mr. Kelly concerning the 10 deposition? 11 A. Yes. Mr. Kelly came to see me on that 12 long weekend, Canadian Thanksgiving long weekend -- 13 because your Thanksgiving is separate, different 14 than our Thanksgiving -- to see me for about an 15 h o u r. 16 And then he called me last Friday to tell me 17 if I'm ready for the deposition, and what will be 18 the procedure, who will go first who will go next, 19 and who will not -- and just be truthful and 20 honest. 21 Q. Okay. And other than the one-hour 22 meeting that you had on the Canadian Thanksgiving 23 weekend, and the one phone call that you had with 24 Mr. Kelly, did you have any other communications 25 with Mr. Kelly -- Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 197 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. No. 3 Q. -- up until today? 4 A. No. No. Sorry. 5 Q. Did you have any communications with 6 anyone else from Mr. Kelly's firm at any time? 7 A. No. 8 Q. What about Mr. Comerford? Did you ever 9 talk to him again about the deposition other than 10 when he first contacted you several weeks ago? 11 A. No. 12 Q. And when you did receive the documents 13 that are before you, and they're marked as 14 Exhibits A through, I believe, Q -- 15 MR. KELLY: R . 16 MR. COLEMAN: -- R, I'm sorry. 17 BY MR. COLEMAN: 18 Q. -- A through R, how long did you spend 19 going through those documents prior to your meeting 20 with Mr. Kelly? 21 A. Prior to meeting with Mr. Kelly? 22 Q. Yes. 23 A. When? That weekend? I'm -- I had not 24 received this binder at all. 25 Q. When you did receive the binder in Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 - i Page 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 I* 1 2 preparation for your meeting with Mr. Kelly, how 3 long had you gone through the binder for your 4 meeting? Or were you -- actually, strike that. 5 Were you presented with that binder during 6 your meeting with Mr. Kelly? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Okay. Did you receive that binder 9 prior to the time you met with Mr. Kelly? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Okay. When was it, then, that you did j 12 receive the binder? I I 13 MR. KELLY: Objection. Asked and answered. 14 He's already stated he got it after the meeting 15 sometime within the last ten days. 16 THE WITNESS: Ten days. 17 BY MR. COLEMAN: 18 Q. Okay. And my understanding is that you j | 19 are currently charging $100 American an hour for iI 20 your time? j 21 A. That's right. 22 Q. Okay. Your bill, as it stands right 23 now, do you know what it is? Prior to today's 24 deposition, how much time you've spent in total 25 preparing for this deposition, including meetings? Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 199 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. I would say that -- you're not talking 3 about including travel time to here? 4 Q. Not travel time. That's correct. 5 A. Okay, I would say about --oh, I must 6 have spent two hours on -- on 20th, 19th, 20th -- 7 about four hours. 8 Q. Okay. And when you met with Mr. Kelly, 9 what did you discuss to the best of your 10 recollection? What was discussed at that time? 11 A. At that time, Mr. Kelly just wanted to 12 know how long I worked with the government, and he 13 just wanted to know about my background. 14 Q. Okay. Did you discuss anything about 15 your proposed testimony when you met that one time 16 for an hour prior to today? 17 A. No. It was -- no. 18 Q . Okay. 19 A. The answer is no. 20 Q. And were you shown any documents or 21 Exhibits of any nature during that meeting? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Okay. And I had had an opportunity to 24 review your curriculum vitae prior to today's 25 deposition. And one of the things that you had Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 200 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 listed on first page was that as the president of 3 the -- is it pronounce announced Gyan Rajhans? 4 A. They call me in different ways, but -- 5 Q. You stated that business in 2002, 6 correct? 7 A. Yeah. 8 Q. Okay. One of the things that you have 9 listed is you have served as an expert advisor on 10 asbestos-related claims? 11 A. That's right. 12 Q. What did you mean by that? 13 A. That meant that -- there had been in 14 Ontario several compensation -- WSI -- we call it, 15 compensation claims for asbestos. 16 And I have been contacted, and I have been 17 asked to meet with adjudicators to -- to -- to 18 adjudicate some of those claims. 19 And, also, I have been expert witness on 20 some of the litigations where I have advised the 21 lawyers. 22 Q. And you previously told us you've never 23 been deposed before, correct? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Have you ever given court testimony Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 201 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 before -- 3 A. No 4 Q. -- in an asbestos claim. 5 When you say you've been called upon to give 6 testimony, what is it that you did? 7 A. I wrote report, and I was ready to -- 8 Q. Ready to testify? 9 A. - - t o testify, but my report appeared 10 to be adequate. 11 Q. Okay. And what percentage of your 12 business is legal consulting work at the current 13 time? 14 A. At the current time? I would say about 15 30 percent. 16 Q. The documents that you have before you, 17 I know that specific binder you've only seen 18 approximately 11 days ago. But those documents in 19 general, had you ever seen them at any point prior 20 to being contacted for this deposition? 21 MR. KELLY: Are you talking about other than 22 when he first saw them when he was working at the 23 Ministry? 24 MR. COLEMAN: That's a very bad question. 25 BY MR. COLEMAN: Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 202 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. Had any attorney ever -- for any legal 3 proceeding, have you ever been shown those 4 documents since you left the government's service? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Okay. And did you ever do anything to 7 contact the Canadian government to try to 8 authenticate the documents that are currently 9 before you? 10 A. No. 11 Q. And did you speak to anyone within the 12 Canadian government at any time concerning those 13 documents? 14 A. No. 15 Q. And did you review each and every 16 document to see whether or not it had been altered 17 in any way? 18 A. Yes. I reviewed them very carefully. 19 Q. And is that the two hours that you had 20 spent prior to this deposition? 21 A. Four hours, you mean? 22 Q . Four hours. 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Other than to look at those documents 25 for four hours, did you do anything to try to Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 203 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 authenticate those documents to determine where 3 they came from? 4 A. No. 5 MR. KELLY: Wait -- 6 THE WITNESS: Sorry. 7 MR. KELLY: That's okay. 8 BY MR. COLEMAN: 9 Q. Now, did -- during the course of your 10 testimony, you had indicated that you would go to 11 the different sites and you would have a 12 handwritten log of the different observations that 13 you made. 14 Did you ever keep any of those logs? Your 15 work book, I believe you called it? A field book? 16 A. Field book. 17 Q. Field book? 18 A. No. 19 Q. What happened to the field books after 20 they were completed? 21 A. The field books were kept by the branch 22 for about ten years in case we have to take a 23 company to court. And after ten years, they were 24 shredded. 25 Q. When you left the government's service Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 204 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 in January of 2000, did you retain any original 3 documents that you had authored or that you had 4 reviewed? 5 A. No. We are not allowed to. 6 Q. At any time during your government 7 service, were you ever called upon to act as a 8 custodian of records in any proceeding? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Now, the documents themselves -- and we 11 might as well start with the first one. 12 Going to what has been marked as Exhibit A, 13 I did actually have some questions about that. 14 First, the seal that does appear on the j j 1 15 bottom right-hand corner, when you would actually | 16 author a document, did you have your own seal? i 17 A. No. 18 Q. You had indicated that this was someone 19 else's seal? 20 A. Yeah. 21 Q. Okay. Did you have your own seal? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Okay. Once you actually wrote 24 report, what did you do with the report? Just hand 25 it to your supervisor? Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 205 \ I 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 I 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Okay. Did you have any responsibility 4 for the filing of that report? 5 A. No. 6 Q. The document that is listed as J 7 Exhibit A, other than what appears to be your 1 8 signature, is any of the other handwriting on that J J 9 document yours? ! 10 A. Except my signature? I'm sorry. 11 Q. Except for your signature. ) 12 A. No. | \ 13 Q. Okay. Next to what is your name, GSR, ; 14 there are initials RS. Who is RS? 15 A. RS are the initials of my secretary -- 16 or -- or not my secretary, sorry. The secretary to 17 the officer in charge, that is the service she -- 18 she worked for, professional hygiene service, 19 she -- she worked for three or four people. 20 Q. Okay. | j 21 A. Okay? And she would type my report, as j 22 well. And it was Ryiah Sysko or something like j 23 that. S-Y--S-K-O. That, I remember very vividly. J 24 Q. Now, when you would complete a report f 2 5 such as this, and you would send it to Mr. Tidey, Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 206 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 did you retain a copy for your own personal file? 3 A. Yes. I did. I did. For follow-up 4 visits, yes, I did. 5 Q. Okay. And where was that file 6 maintained? 7 A. That was with Ryiah Sysko, to -- what 8 Ryiah Sysko had, let me just explain to you that 9 all three consultants, all three specialists, had 10 their -- their shelves. And whenever she would 11 type up a report, she would always keep a copy, put 12 a copy in our slots. 13 Q. When you had indicated earlier that you 14 would go back and occasionally review different 15 documents, were they from your own files? 16 A. No. The -- the -- there was a branch 17 file that was whole room full of files. 18 Q . Okay. 19 A. And then there was -- there was a desk 20 files of recent documents which stayed with Ryiah. 21 And if they were within, say, that in the recent 22 past, which will be four or five months or six 23 months, rather than going to -- and if it was my 24 own report, then I would go to her desk for easy 25 retrieval. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 207 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Otherwise, I have to go to the -- 3 Q. To the main -- 4 A. Pass. 5 Q. -- storage room? 6 So that as I understand it, then, when you 7 were talking about the files that are maintained, 8 they're kept near you on the shelves for 9 approximately three to six months, and then they go % 10 to a separate storage area? I % 11 A. I'm sorry, n o . 12 Q. No? 13 A. One copy will always go to the main 14 files room 15 Q- Okay. 16 A. -- under the company. 17 Q. Got ya. I i 18 A . Company's name. I I 19 Another -- another copy will be kept in our I 20 secretary's drawer, desk drawer, for four or five | 21 months in case we wanted a quick -- quick retrieval 22 before we go and see the plant again or visit the 23 plant again. 24 Q. Okay. And were there any other copies 25 that were kept, other than to the people that were Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 208 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 carbon copied or to the person who this was sent 3 to? 4 A. Not -- no. 5 Q. Okay. Any of the copies of the 6 documents that you produced in the main branch, is 7 that a separate area from what I'm looking at here? 8 This stamp appears to be from Mr. Tidey, I believe 9 it i s . 10 A. I believe it is. 11 Q. Did the main branch have its separate 12 set of documents other than this? Or is this a 13 separate filing that I'm looking at here? 14 MR. KELLY: Objection. Compound. 15 MR. COLEMAN: Okay. Oh. 16 BY MR. COLEMAN: 17 Q. Did the main branch, well, I'll break 18 it down to each individual section then. 19 Did the main branch keep a copy of every 20 document that you authored? 21 A. That's right. 22 Q. Okay. The document that I'm looking at 23 here, this stamp is from Mr. Tidey? 24 A. Yeah. 25 Q. Did you ever have occasion to go into Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 209 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Mr. Tidey's filing area to look up documents? 3 A. No. 4 Q. So, you do not know, do you know 5 personally, from firsthand knowledge, how Mr. Tidey 6 kept his documents in his office? 7 MR. KELLY: Objection. Relevance. 8 THE WITNESS: Yes. 9 BY MR. COLEMAN: 10 Q. And what is your under -- and how did 11 you come to this information? Did -- do you have 12 any information of how he personally -- 13 A. We were - - w e were on the same floor. 14 We could watch each other. It was an open office 15 concept. 16 Q . Okay. 17 A. Everybody can see everybody. 18 Q. All right. And where did Mr. Tidey 19 keep his documents stored within the office itself? 20 A. He never kept any. 21 Q. Okay. What I'm looking at here appears 22 to have a seal from Mr. Tidey. Okay? 23 Where did this document -- do you know where 24 this was stored, personally? 25 A. Yes. Let me just give you the flow of Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 210 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 the documents. 3 Q . Okay. 4 A. He will look at it. He will initial 5 it. This will go to his assistant, Gordon 6 Sinclair, whose initials you see on the left of the 7 seal. And he will put it to the file. 8 Q. And where is that file kept? 9 A. The file was the main branch file. 10 Q. Okay. So this is amainbranch file? 11 A. That's right. 12 Q. Okay. Your file, is thatsomething 13 different in the main branch? Or is that separate 14 under your name? 15 I'm trying to get a concept of how many 16 files -- copies of this document I might find if I 17 went to the main branch. 18 A. Main branch would have only one copy. 19 Q. Okay. Now, on those documents, I 20 noticed next to Mr. Turton, there's a number two. 21 The numbers appear different on different 22 documents. Do you know what that number two 23 represents? 24 A. That means he was sent two copies. 25 Q. Okay. And do you know why he would be Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 211 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 sent two copies? 3 A. Because he would keep one copy in his 4 branch file, which was in the Ministry, and one 5 copy would go to the field inspector. 6 Q. And Mr. Moore, do you know why he would 7 receive two copies? 8 A. He would do the same. He would keep 9 one file in the chest disease section, and another 10 he will give it to the x-ray technician. 11 Q. And earlier in your questioning, you 12 had testified that you believe that the first time 13 you may have had an opportunity to go to the 14 Garlock plant in Ontario was in 1969, and I believe 15 it said it was September? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. Do you have a specific memory of 18 the plant outside of what's contained within the 19 document that has been marked as Exhibit A? 20 A. Yes, I do. 21 Q. Okay. Would you please tell me what 22 you do recall from your first visit to Garlock, 23 without referring to the document? 24 A. Yes. I recall very well that it was a 25 huge plant. Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 212 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q . Okay. 3 A. And they had very nice reception area 4 in the -- in the front. 5 And then I would go and present my card. 6 And then ask for the senior-most person to come and 7 see me. 8 Q . Okay. 9 A. And that's how it really started in the 10 plant. 11 Q. And I believe you said the contact on 12 your first visit was Mr. Rostas? 13 A. Rostas, yeah. 14 Q. And could you describe him for me? Do 15 you recall him? 16 A. Rostas? I recall him well. 17 He -- now, this is -- some of the faces in 18 your memory are very vivid, you can never forget. 19 Like, you will never forget me because I'm bald. 20 But similarly, I would never forget 21 Mr. Rostas. He was -- he was well built, and 22 medium height. And lots of hair on the -- not 23 anywhere else, I mean. And a good personality. 24 Q. Okay. And did you recall having a 25 conversation with him on that first meeting? Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 213 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. Yeah. 3 Q. Do you recall anything that was 4 discussed at that time? 5 A. That, well, he just wanted to know 6 about my background. He was very, very -- in a 7 way, he was a little bit surprised. He looked very 8 surprised that I was born in India and -- and came 9 all the way to Canada to do my study. 10 So he wanted to know about my background 11 before we started visiting. 12 Q . Okay. 13 A. He was very curious how I ended up 14 h e r e. 15 Q. And do you recall in total how many 16 times you had an opportunity to visit the Garlock 17 plant on Jute Street? 18 MR. KELLY: Objection. 19 THE WITNESS: Jutland. 20 BY MR. COLEMAN: 21 Q. Jutland. Sorry. 22 A. Jutland, yeah. Jutland Street. 23 Q. Do you recall how many times? 24 A. I -- specifically, it would be 25 difficult. But several times. I mean, at times, Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 214 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 it just appeared that I kept going again and again. 3 Q. And can you give me your best estimate? 4 Are we talking more than 20 times? Less than 50? 5 Just your best estimate, without outright guessing, 6 how many times you had an occasion to go to the 7 Garlock plant in Ontario? 8 A. At least 15 times, I would say. 9 Q. Okay. So during your time with the 10 Ontario Department of Health and its different 11 names after that, approximately on 15 occasions you 12 had an opportunity to go to the Garlock plant? 13 A. Yes, approximately. I 14 Q. When you would go to the plant, how 15 long would you actually spend there during one of 16 your inspections? 17 A. On the average? At least five to seven I 18 hours, not including lunchtime. Because at times, I 19 we will eat lunch almost like working lunch and j | 20 then go on and -- and do the visit. j i 21 Q. So, when you would go there, you would J 22 spend basically the entire workday at just the j | 23 Garlock plant? j i 24 A. Yes. 25 Q . Okay. On that first occasion, when you Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 age 215 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 met with Mr. Rostas, do you recall the names of any 3 of the other individuals that you met with? 4 A . No. 5 Q. And for what period of time do you 6 recall meeting with Mr. Rostas until you met 7 someone other than him when you went to the plant? 8 MR. KELLY: Object to form. I don't 9 understand what you're asking. 10 THE WITNESS: Yeah. I I 11 BY MR. COLEMAN: I 12 Q. Fair enough, then. I'll rephrase the 13 question. 14 Did you meet with anyone other than 15 Mr. Rostas at any time during the first year that i 16 you went to visit the Garlock plant? 17 A. Not the first year, no. 18 Q. Okay. When is the first time that you 19 met someone other than Mr. Rostas? % 20 A. After a couple of years, I would say 21 three years when I met Mr. Pilmer, who was the \ 22 president of -- of Garlock. 23 Q. Other than Mr. Rostas and Mr. Pilmer, 24 do you recall the names of any of the other I 25 individuals that you met with? Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 216 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. No. 3 Q. And when you would meet -- 4 MR. KELLY: They're indicated on the 5 reports, but -- 6 MR. COLEMAN: Well, that's why I'm asking 7 his recollection, as opposed to what's on the 8 reports. 9 BY MR. COLEMAN: 10 Q. Other than Mr. Rostas and Mr. Pilmer, 11 as you sit here right now without reviewing the 12 reports, you can not recall anyone else's name; is 13 that correct? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Okay. Mr. Pilmer himself, do you 16 recall what he looked like? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Do you recall any specific 19 conversations with him? 20 A. No. 21 MR. COLEMAN: Okay. Can we go off the 22 record? 23 (Videotape Number 2 was then concluded at 24 15:19.) 25 (Discussion off the record at 15:19.) Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 217 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 (Videotape Number 3 was begun and on the 3 record at 15:22.) 4 BY MR. COLEMAN: 5 Q. Again, I want you to go back to what 6 has marked at Exhibit A. On the first page, other 7 than your signature that was only handwriting. On 8 the second page, is any of the additional 9 handwriting yours? 10 MR. KELLY: What handwriting are you 11 referring to? 12 MR. COLEMAN: There's handwriting in the 13 lower right-hand corner, it appears. 14 THE WITNESS: No, that's Dr. Sinclair. 15 BY MR. COLEMAN: 16 Q. Okay. And the underlining, was that 17 something that you would have done -- 18 A. No. 19 Q. - - o r was that something that would 20 have been added after the fact? 21 A. No. The secretary will do it for 22 filing purposes so that she would know where to 23 file, under what company. 24 Q. Okay. Now, when you would go to the 25 plant you already told us you would have your Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 218 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 handwriting logbook. 3 Did you ever take any photographs while you 4 were there? 5 A. Not in case of Garlock, not -- no. 6 Q. Okay. Did you ever make any diagrams 7 of the plant itself? 8 A. Yes. In the field book. 9 Q. Okay. Just in the field book? 10 Outside of the field book, did you have any 11 other notes or pictures or diagrams other than what 12 was contained in the field book that you already 13 told us would have been destroyed after ten years? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Now, the report itself appears -- part 16 one, it appears to be titled as an abstract. 17 Was there a longer report that would have 18 accompanied this? 19 To me, an abstract and a shortening of a 20 longer report? 21 A. Sorry. Excuse me. If you could tell 22 me where -- 23 Q. Sure. On page 2 on the left-hand side 24 just under where, oh, it's being said, it says 25 "abstract." Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 219 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Was there a longer report? 4 A. No. No, sir. 5 Q . Okay. 6 A. Abstract is the first part before you 7 see all those asterisks. 8 Q. Okay. So when it says abstract, it - 9 A. That means -- 10 Q. -- doesn't mean 11 A . No. I 12 Q. -- there's a short -- I| 13 A. It does a summary of what you're going f 14 to read further. 15 Q. And would this appear to you to be a 16 complete report? 17 A. Yes, sir. 18 Q. Is there anything else that would have 19 been attached to this report? 20 A. No, sir. 21 Q. Okay. Now, you've been asked numerous 22 times concerning all the different times that this 23 appears to be a similar-type form as to which you 24 would have written. 25 My question to you is slightly different. [ Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 220 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Do you have a specific memory of seeing this 3 specific report in the past -- i 4 MR. KELLY: Seeing it? 5 BY MR. COLEMAN: 6 Q. - - a s opposed -- 7 Yes. 8 Do you specifically recall this document, 9 which is dated September 30, 1969, other than the 10 fact that it appears to be in a correct format and 11 your signature seems to appear on the document, do 12 you specifically recall this document? 13 A. Yes. I recall this one. I'm glad that 14 you asked about this one. 15 I recall this one because this was one of 16 the most important reports I ever wrote on Garlock 17 up until that time. 18 Q . Okay. 19 A. So I recall very vividly this report. 20 Q. Okay. Do you recall any of the 21 subsequent reports -- 22 A. Yes. i II 23 Q. -- other than the fact that they are in I 24 a format that is familiar to you that appears to 25 have been similar to the type of reports you would Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 2 2 1 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 have filed? 3 A. After going through the report, it 4 refreshed my memory. And now, I recall. 5 Q. Okay. Why is it that you specifically 6 recall -- well, strike that. 7 In a given year, how many different 8 factories and mines might you have an opportunity 9 to visit? 10 A. It -- it will depend. Sometimes a mine 11 will take more than two weeks -- 12 Q . Okay. 13 A. -- because mines are big, and you have 14 to wait for the cages and all that to go up. 15 I would say 70 to 75 -- 16 Q . Okay. 17 A. -- in a year. 18 Q. All right. And you've been with the 19 department how many years prior to moving up to an 20 administrative position where you would have 21 written reports? 22 A. Ten years, before I moved to the chief 23 job. 24 Q. Okay. And of the 75 a year of the 25 approximately 750 reports, is there anything in Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-F1NK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 age 222 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 particular about this report that you remember that 3 stands out to you? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And what was it? 6 A. Excuse me. Let's go back. 7 Q . Sure. 8 A. We are talking about September 30th, 9 1969 report? 10 Q. That's correct. 11 A. Okay. The reason that report stands 12 out is because this was the first time that I 13 talked extensively with the plant people, plant 14 management, about blue asbestos and -- and -- and 15 various -- I did extensive ventilation 16 measurements. And I can just close my eyes I 17 and -- and visualize those braiders, and -- and I 18 this -- this was one -- I was proud of this report. ? 19 Q. Okay. Other than Mr. Rostas, do you 20 remember anyone else from that first visit -- you If 21 said you had discussions with management. That s 22 appeared to be plural to me. 23 Do you remember anyone other than him that I 24 you talked to specifically? 25 A . N o , I d o n 't . Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 223 f 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. With your engineering background, did f I 3 you have any special classes or special knowledge 4 as to gaskets as opposed to some other type of 5 product? 6 A . No. S 7 Q. Did you ever have access to the I 8 ingredients that went into gaskets that were j 9 manufactured by Garlock as part of your job duties, fI 10 other than to know that you saw asbestos? I mean, f 11 the actual ingredients that were -- or the formula, j 12 for lack of a better word. As to how they made j i 13 their gaskets? j 14 MR. KELLY: You're asking did he know that j 15 in '69 when he was there, or did he ever learn i 16 that? | 17 MR. COLEMAN: I'm askingin '69 first, and j I| 18 then I'll go from there. j 19 BY MR. COLEMAN: j 20 Q. In 1969, did you have access to the j I 21 actual formula that Garlock mayhave used for any j 22 of its gaskets? \ 23 A. No. 24 Q. At any time, did you actually have 25 access to any formula as to how Garlock made its Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-F1NK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 224 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 gaskets? 3 A. Garlock did -- every -- every time I 4 visited Garlock, one of the management people, 5 Rostas or whoever, would come to receive me. 6 Rostas mostly. 7 In the beginning, first one, they would take 8 me through one of their brochures; tell me what 9 ingredients and raw materials they are using; what 10 is the procedure of making the gasket; where they 11 are selling it; what are they doing with -- with 12 various machines; and where their other plants are. 13 Q. Do you have any memory as a result of 14 this conversation as to whether or not any of the 15 gaskets that were manufactured in Ontario were ever 16 specifically sold in Illinois? 17 A. No. 18 Q. And as a result of those conversations, 19 do you recall what percentage of gaskets might have 20 contained asbestos as opposed to those gaskets 21 manufactured by Garlock that did not contain any 22 type of asbestos? 23 A. If I recall correctly -- and I do 24 recall correctly -- all gaskets at that time 25 contained asbestos. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 225 t I 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. Okay. So as you sit here right now, i t 3 your belief is that every gasket that was f 4 manufactured at the Ontario Garlock plant contained ; 5 asbestos? I 6 A. That's right. j 7 Q. Okay. And do you know what -- or, do j | 8 you have a belief, if at all, as to whether or not j 9 Garlock, during the time you would make your j 10 visits, ever manufactured gaskets that did not j 11 contain asbestos? j 12 A . No. j 13 Q. Okay. So to your knowledge, then, S 14 during the ten years you did visit, all gaskets } 15 manufactured by Garlock at that facility contained j 16 asbestos? j 17 A. That's right. j 18 Q. Okay. Do you have any idea as to j 19 well, we won't go there. j 20 When you were testifying as to Exhibit A, j 21 you said that some of the workers appeared to be j 22 wearing a NIOSH-approved mask. Do you remember j 23 that? I 24 MR. KELLY: Does he remember the testimony? ^ 25 BY MR. COLEMAN: j Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 226 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. Do you remember the testimony, first. 3 MR. KELLY: He's talking about page 2. 4 BY MR. COLEMAN: 5 Q. I'm talking about page 2. The 6 respirator. 7 MR. KELLY: The September report? 8 MR. COLEMAN: Correct. 9 MR. KELLY: Exhibit A. 10 THE WITNESS: Oh. Oh, okay. Thank you for 11 clarifying. 12 MR. COLEMAN: Right. 13 MR. KELLY: Page 2, it's like the fourth 14 paragraph. Page 2 of that report, actually, the 15 next page. 16 THE WITNESS: Oh, thank you. 17 M R . KELLY: There you g o . 18 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 19 MR. KELLY: The bigparagraph. | 20 THE WITNESS: One, two, three -- this is the jI 21 fourth one, am I right? j| 22 MR. KELLY: Yes. j 23 THE WITNESS: Yes, the operator wears an f 24 approved type, that's right. Okay. j 25 BY MR. COLEMAN: j Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 9 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 227 ( 1 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. Do you know what year NIOSH was formed? 1 3 A. NIOSH was formed in 1969 or '70. I 4 Q. Did you ever talk to Mr. Moore \ j j 5 concerning his findings with the x-rays? 6 You had mentioned him in reference to 7 Exhibit A. And you said that you had conversations 8 with Mr. Moore? 9 A. Mr. Moore? Yes, I had. And Mr. Moore 10 would tell me if any abnormalities are on any of 11 the x-rays were ever found in the employees that -- 12 that they -- they -- they examined. 3 13 Q. Do you specifically recall any \ 14 conversations with Mr. Moore back in 1969 iI 15 concerning x-rays of Garlock employees? ; 16 A. The only thing I remember is that i 17 Mr. Moore would say that they are going to be j| | 18 monitoring these plans on a regular basis. ; 19 Q. Okay. Other than Mr. Moore telling you 20 that the plants, in general, will be monitored on a j 21 regular basis, do you have any specific ! 22 recollection of talking to Mr. Moore about the { 23 Garlock plant in particular? s 24 A. That's what I meant. j 25 Q . Okay. I Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 228 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. He said Garlock plant will be 3 monitoring -- 4 Q. I misunderstood, and I apologize. iI 5 A. I'm sorry. 6 Q. Did you ever have any follow-up 7 conversations with Mr. Moore after he told you that 8 the plants will be monitored? 9 A. We would be talking on almost every 10 second or third week. 11 In fact, not only that, but I just remember 12 also that I would go to his place, his office, 13 which was about five kilometers from our office. 14 And every second week as a dust control specialist, 15 I was supposed to talk to the chest disease 16 services and find out if they have monitored all 17 the places where dust exposures could be there. 18 Q. Now, the next time you had gone, I 19 believe from your previous testimony, was in July 20 of 1970. And that was reflected in what has been 21 marked as Exhibit B. 22 Do you specifically recall this memo other 23 than the fact that it appears to be in a form 24 familiar to you? 25 A. This memo, I remember specifically, 1 Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 229 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 also because -- this -- this is amazing that I 3 would recall this. 4 This is the first time I met the president, 5 which was a big thing, because president of the 6 company usually does not come out from their office 7 to meet anyone. 8 And for that reason, I would remember that. 9 Q. Okay. Do you remember any 10 conversations you had with Mr. Pilmer? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Okay. Do you remember anything other 13 than the fact that you met him, without looking at 14 the document itself, from just your recollection? 15 A. What I do remember, and 16 this -- this -- this is going to my recollection of 17 quite a few years -- what I do remember, Mr. Pilmer 18 was very much impressed with my qualification. I'm 19 not trying to put myself up, but I'm just trying to 20 remember everything and visualize. Very much 21 impressed. Patted on my back, as well. 22 And Mr. Pilmer -- no, except that, I don't 23 remember anything he said. 24 But, then we went into the plant. There was 2 5 some blue asbestos that I observed. And that made Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 -I Page 230 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 me upset, because I knew blue asbestos was bad. 3 And I do remember a velometer -- this is to 4 measure the velocity -- I had the velometer which 5 had its limited range of measuring the velocity. 6 In other words, I could not measure less than 100 I II 7 feet per minute, if it was going through the hood. 8 And I could not measure more than 500 feet per 1 9 minute. It one of these small velometers. I 10 remember that. 11 And, so those are some of the things that 12 come to my mind. 13 Q. Okay. Do you remember anything other 14 than the fact that he discussed your qualifications 15 with you and that you had this velometer with you? 16 Do you remember anything else about the visit? i 17 A. Blue asbestos. 18 Q. Okay. Do you remember any 19 conversations other than your qualifications with I ii 20 Mr. Pilmer? ; 21 A. No. ; 22 Q. Do you know whether or not he was with % 23 you when you saw this -- 24 A. No. 25 Q. -- blue asbestos? soasas Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 231 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. No. 3 Q. What about Mr. Rostas? Do you recall 4 any conversations with him during this time? 5 A. All the time through -- throughout, he 6 was with us, with me, through all the plant visit. 7 And every time I would find out about blue 8 asbestos or inadequate ventilation on any of the 9 machines, he would agree with my wholeheartedly, 10 not question me, and say next time he is going to 11 fix it. 12 Q. Okay. And you saw this, as I recall, 13 at one specific winder or braider rather? 14 A. Braider. 15 Q. Behind a braider? 16 And it was in a yarn form? The blue 17 asbestos, as you called it? 18 A. It was in a spool, yes. 19 Q. Okay. How did you know that it was 20 blue asbestos as opposed to some other type of 21 asbestos or substance? 22 A. It looked blue, and the -- the fibers 23 were asbestos. You can see it. Because it had 24 fibrils. 25 Q. Okay. Was there anything written on Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 age 232 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 the material itself that led you to that conclusion 3 that it was blue asbestos, other than the coloring 4 and that it appeared to be fibrous? 5 A. No. It did. But Mr. Rostas agreed 6 that it was blue asbestos. 7 Q. Do you recall what the spool itself 8 looked like? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And could you describe that for me? 11 A. It was, like, about one-and-a-half feet 12 diameter, the spool. 13 Q . Okay. 14 A. And it was a vertical -- it was lined 15 vertically, a vertical spool, quite a few of them. 16 Vertical spools. And that's all I can remember. 17 Q. Okay. Do you remember any writing on 18 the spools or anything of that nature? 19 A. No, there was no writing. 20 Q. Were they kept in a separate area of 21 the plant at the time, behind the braider? 22 A. No, I was hoping they would but not -- 23 it was not kept in a segregated area. No. And 24 that's what infuriated me. 25 Q. Did you find it anywhere other than Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 233 j \ 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans -10-25-05 j 2 behind this braider? f 3 A. No. j ! 4 Q. Do you recall anything elseabout that j 5 second visit, other than the fact that you -- j 6 Mr. Pilmer told you about your qualifications, that j | 7 you saw the blue asbestos, and that you took the l 8 tour with Mr. Rostas? s 9 MR. KELLY: You're asking other than what j 10 he's already testified to? 1 11 MR. COLEMAN: Well, I'm asking him without \ 12 looking at the document what he recalls. You asked j 13 him with the document. j 14 THE WITNESS: No, I don't recall anything ; 15 else. j 16 BY MR. COLEMAN: j |I 17 Q. Now, what has been marked asExhibit B, j ! 18 again, there's some writing down on the bottom j 19 right-hand corner. Is that any of yourwriting? j | 20 A. No. j 21 Q. Can you recognizewho wrote that? I I 22 A. Yes. j 23 Q. And who was that? \ 24 A. Again, it was by Gordon Sinclair. j 25 Q. And that was the assist? j Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 234 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. Of V.L. Tidey. 3 Q. And the writing on the top right-hand 4 corner -- 5 (Interruption by the court reporter.) 6 THE WITNESS: Sorry, sir, but you were 7 asking me something. I'm sorry. 8 BY MR. COLEMAN: 9 Q. The other writing that appears on this 10 document, in the upper right-hand corner, where it 11 says "IF-82," do you recognize whose writing that 12 would be? 13 A. That would be by the secretary before 14 she files it. 15 Q. Okay. Do you know which secretary that 16 would have been? 17 A. That would have been the person who 18 signed that, Ryiah Sysko. 19 Q. Do you recall the name? 20 MR. KELLY: He said Ryiah Sysko. 21 MR. COLEMAN: Oh, okay. Oh, I see what 22 you're saying. 23 BY MR. COLEMAN: 24 Q. Do you recall the name of RS, or who 25 that is? Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 235 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. As I said before, Ryiah Sysko. 3 Q. And for the court reporter, could you 4 possibly spell that? 5 A. I did spell already. 6 Q. Oh, you did already? I apologize. 7 Now, in the next document, when you went for 8 what I believe would have been your third visit, 9 that would have been in May of 1970? 10 A. Are we on B now? 11 Q. Yes, what is marked now as Exhibit C. 12 A. C. 13 Q. May of 1971, I apologize. 14 A. Oh, that was -- okay. 15 My visit is dated July 26th, and date of 16 visit is July 23rd. And, yes, Mike Polny's visit 17 was May 23rd. 18 Q. All right. I was thinking of July 19 1970. And again, back to Exhibit B. 20 A. Oh, I'm sorry. 21 Q. You said that you recall giving papers 22 to Mr. Rostas at that time? In your earlier 23 testimony, you said you gave him some papers? 24 MR. KELLY: He's on the -- 25 MR. COLEMAN: I'm on Exhibit B again. Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 236 j 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans -10-25-05 j 2 MR. KELLY: -- Exhibit B. | I 3 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. 1 I 4 BY MR. COLEMAN: j 5 Q. When you were discussing Exhibit B with js 6 Mr. Kelly, you said that you recall giving -- j 7 MR. KELLY: Hang on. 1 8 MR. COLEMAN: -- Mr. Rostas -- 1 | 9 MR. KELLY: Just let him get to it. 10 MR. COLEMAN : Sure. i 11 MR. KELLY: The Exhibit. Here. Let me help j l 12 y o u . 13 THE WITNESS: I'm totally confused, because 14 I went to "C" first, and -- 15 MR. COLEMAN: Right. That was my fault. I ! 16 apologize. 17 MR. KELLY: Go ahead. j 18 THE WITNESS: Okay. 19 BY MR. COLEMAN: j 20 Q. You said you recall giving Mr. Rostas 1 21 some papers. j 22 My question is: Do you recall the names of f 23 any of the titles of the papers that you gave him? f 24 A. I gav him our data sheet. j | 25 Q. Data sheet? ii Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. Which was asbestos data sheet. 3 Q . All right. 4 A. And some of the British publications on 5 blue asbestos which, at that time, were coming out 6 telling us -- telling the hygienists, by the 7 medical people, that we should be careful of this 8 product. 9 Q. Do you recall the names of any of the 10 authors of any of those articles that you gave to 11 Mr. Rostas at that time? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Do you recall where any of the 14 publications came from, the names of any of the 15 journals, magazines, books -- I j 16 A. Oh, yes. This came from the two i 17 articles that I was talking about came from 18 British -- British Occupational Hygiene Society 19 journal. And American Industrial Hygiene journal. ! 20 Q. And the data sheet, do you know what : sI 21 number was? 22 During the course of your testimony, you did 23 tell us about data sheet Number 18 -- 24 A. Yeah. I % 25 Q. -- down the road. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 238 I J 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans -10-25-05 j I 2 Do you recall what version of the data sheet j 3 that you had given to Mr. Rostas back in July of j 4 1970? i 5 A. Number, I would not remember. 6 Q. And other than the two articles and the 7 data sheet, do you recall giving him anything else? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Did you hand them to him there? Or did 10 you subsequently go back to your office and write a 11 letter to him enclosing the articles? 12 A. No. I gave it to him there, because in 13 my previous visit I thought I might need to educate 14 him on that. 15 Q. Did you give it with a cover letter or 16 anything -- 17 A. No. 18 Q. -- or did you just hand them to him? 19 A. No, I just handed them to him. 20 Q. And now we're going to go fast forward 21 to Exhibit F. And I'm going to ask you, did you 22 ever, prior to receiving that binder that is 23 currently before you, prior to receiving the binder 24 that is before you, do you ever recall seeing this 25 cover letter before? ifca Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-F1NK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 239 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 A. Yeah. 3 Q. And when would you have seen this cover 4 letter? 5 A. Because every time Mr. Nelson would 6 write any or send any material outside from the 7 occupational health protection branch, he was 8 obliged to send or show me in one way or the other 9 as dust control specialist, because I was the only 10 dust control specialist that he had. 11 Q. Okay. Did he have to run every letter 12 to you before he sent it out to a client? 13 A. He would either send me a copy, or he 14 would say, Gyan -- because our offices were close. 15 Side by side. 16 Q. All right. Now, I'm asking you about 17 this letter in particular, because you do not 18 appear to have received a carbon copy. 19 A. No. 20 Q. Okay. Did you see this letter prior to 21 receiving it today? 22 A. Yeah. 23 Q. And do you have a specific memory of 24 that? 25 A. Yes . Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 240 1 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Q. Okay. What about this letter, this 3 cover letter of June of 1972, draws your attention 4 to it such that you would remember that from 5 hundreds or even thousand of letters you may have 6 seen during the course of your career? 7 A. Well, you know, Garlock being one of 8 those companies that we were watching very closely, 9 I remember these letters. 10 Mr. Breckon was a nontechnical manager of 11 Garlock. And this was sent to him. 12 And that's how this will strike my memory. 13 Q. And I understand you said that 14 Mr. Breckon would receive different copies. But 15 you specifically recall just the cover letter going 16 to -- seeing it before it was actually mailed to 17 him? 18 A. And -- and the attachment, yeah. I 19 Q. Okay. Going fast forward again to H. 20 When you were talking as to this document, I 21 you had told us that you remember being on the j 22 phone with Mr. Rosatis (phonetic). | | 23 MR. KELLY: Rostas, is that? j 24 MR. COLEMAN: Rostas. I keep saying } 25 Rosatis. I apologize. j Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 241 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 MR. KELLY: There might have been a Rosatis, 3 but the only one I know of is the Rostas. 4 BY MR. COLEMAN: 5 Q. Do you specifically recall the phone 6 conversation you had with him? You had referenced 7 it during the course of your testimony concerning 8 Exhibit H. 9 A. What? Could you -- 10 Q. Sure. When you were testifying as to 11 Exhibit H. 12 A. H. Yeah? 13 Q. You said you had testified that you 14 remember talking to Mr. Rostas concerning blue 15 asbestos? 16 A. That's right. 17 Q . Okay. 18 A. And he said that he had to stop using 19 i t . 20 Q. Right. Now, do you recall how long 21 before your visit that you had this conversation 22 with him? 23 A. No. I would not remember how long, 24 exactly how long. 25 Q. Do you recall anything about the Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 conversation, exactly what was said? 3 A. The conversation was, I think purely, 4 if I remember correctly, purely about the use of 5 blue asbestos. 6 Q . Okay. 7 A. And I wanted to know once and for all 8 that they stopped using it. 9 Q. Okay. Do you recall anything other 10 than -- about the conversation other than the fact 11 that you wanted him to stop using blue asbestos? 12 Anything else? Any details? 13 A. Anything else I would not remember, 14 because that was my focus. 15 Q. And, again, in March of 1975, when you 16 had this meeting which is referenced in Exhibit H, 17 Mr. Rostas is listed as a person that you met with. 18 And Mr. Popowich, a chemist. Do you remember 19 Mr. Popowich? I 20 A. No. i 21 Q. So other than the fact that his name is 22 referenced on this memo, you don't recall him? 23 A. No. I don't recall him. 24 Q. And going, again, fast forward to 25 Exhibit K. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 243 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 Do you ever recall meeting Mr. Sibbald? 3 A. No, I do not. 4 Q. Okay. Then I guess you have no 5 recollection of any conversations you may have had 6 with him? 7 A. Mr. Sibbald? No. 8 MR. KELLY: This is a Polny-authored 9 document, though. 10 MR. COLEMAN: I understand. I'm just 11 asking. 12 MR. KELLY: Okay. 13 BY MR. COLEMAN: 14 Q. Now we've gone through a lot of the 15 documents. 16 Do you recall anyone else other than 17 Mr. Rostas or Mr. Pilmer at the Garlock plant? 18 A. No, I don't. 19 MR. COLEMAN: Okay. Could we go off the 20 record for a second? 21 (Discussion off the record at 15:50.) 22 (On the record at 15:53.) 23 BY MR. COLEMAN: 24 Q. During the course of your testimony, 25 you said that one of the reasons you might go back Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 244 I i 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 to a plant is that a union may actually request 3 such a visit. 4 Do you ever recall any union at Garlock 5 requesting such a visit where you would go in to do 6 studies? 7 A. Did I say that? 8 Q. You had indicated earlier during the 9 course of your testimony that your agency might be 10 requested by a union to come in to do an 11 inspection. 12 My question is: Do you have any knowledge 13 as to whether or not a Garlock union member or the I 14 union on behalf of Garlock had ever requested -- 15 A. Okay. Let me just clarify it. 16 Q . Okay. 17 A. Union, at times, could request the 18 industrial safety officer who visits their plant on 19 a regular and cyclical basis that, hey, I think -- 1 20 or the union leader will say, hey, I think this i i 21 plant has become worse. Come and see. Or, they 22 have added another machine. So, although you 23 visited it last week, come back and visit again. f 24 During the course of his subsequent visit, I 25 industrial safety branch would ask us, if required. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 245 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 to go and visit. 3 Q. Do you know that -- that -- any union 4 member from Garlock had ever requested such a 5 visit? 6 A . N o , I d o n 11 . 7 MR. COLEMAN: That's all I have. 8 MR. KELLY: No more questions. 9 Unless you have any? 10 MR. FERGUS: No. Based on the 213 11 disclosure, this witness is only being called 12 against Garlock. So John Crane has no questions at 13 this time. 14 MR. KELLY: Under Illinois court rules, you 15 have an opportunity to review the transcript after 16 it's been all typed up for accuracy. Under the 17 rules, though, you can't actually change your 18 answer, you can just do things like spelling and 19 stuff like that. 20 But you have a right to review it, if you'd 21 like to. Otherwise, you can waive signature. It's 22 sort of up to you. If you want to receive a copy 23 and review it, I suggest that you ask -- ask to 24 reserve signature. 25 THE WITNESS: I would like to review it. Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 1 Gyan Shankar Rajhans - 10-25-05 2 MR. KELLY: Okay. We'll show signature as 3 reserved, then. 4 We're all done. 5 THE COURT REPORTER: Within 30 days or 60 6 days? 7 MR. KELLY: Within 30 days. 8 (Proceedings of 10/25/05 were then concluded 9 at 15:55 on Videotape Number 3.) 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 i 24 1 25 J I Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 247 1 I 2 I hereby CERTIFY that I have read the ! 3 foregoing 245 pages, and that they are a true and 4 accurate transcript of the testimony given by me in I 5 the above entitled action on October 25, 2005. I 6 7 8 GYAN SHANKAR RAJHANS 9 10 Sworn to before me this 11 12 day o f --------- ,2005. | I 13 I 14 II 1 15 NOTARY PUBLIC. 16 17 18 I 19 I I 20 21 22 %? 23 24 25 SKS Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 1 2 STATE OF NEW YORK) 3 Page 248 \ 4 COUNTY OF ERIE ) 5 6 I DO HEREBY CERTIFY as a Notary Public in and 7 for the State of New York, that I did attend and 8 report the foregoing deposition, which was taken 9 down by me in a verbatim manner by means of machine 10 shorthand. Further, that the deposition was then 11 reduced to writing in my presence and under my 12 direction. That the deposition was taken to be 13 used in the foregoing entitled action. That the 14 said deponent, before examination, was duly sworn 15 to testify to the truth, the whole truth and 16 nothing but the truth, relative to said action. 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 Page 249 1 INDEX TO EXHIBITS 2 Exhibit Description Page 3 RAJHANS EXH. Notice of Videotaped 1 Discovery Deposition 4 RAJHANS EXH. Curriculum Vitae 52 6 RAJHANS EXH. Field Visit Report dated A 10/20/69 7 RAJHANS EXH. Field Visit Report dated 8B 7/29/80 9 RAJHANS EXH. Air Sampling for Asbestos C and Lead, Garlock Canada, 10 LTD dated 5/25/71 11 RAJHANS EXH. Nelson Letter to Rostas D dated 9/9/71 12 RAJHANS EXH. Air Sampling of Asbestos 3 13 E Fibers dated 5/1/72 14 RAJHANS EXH. Nelson Letter to Breckon 3 F dated 6/19/72 15 RAJHANS EXH. Memo to Tidey dated 2/21/75 3 16 G RAJHANS EXH. Field Visit Report dated 3 17 H 3/11/75 18 RAJHANS EXH. Letter to Rajhans dated 3 I 5/30/75 19 RAJHANS EXH. Tidey Letter to Woods dated 3 20 J 11/25/75 21 RAJHANS EXH. Air Quality Assessment 4 K Report dated 2/10/77 22 RAJHANS EXH. Letter to Rostas dated 4 23 L 6/2/78 24 RAJHANS EXH. Air Quality Assessment M Report dated 8/21/79 25 4 I Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 1 RAJHANS EXH. Peter Pelmear Letter to N Mrs. B. Golbourn date 2 10/22/79 Page 250 4 3 RAJHANS EXH. Rajhans Letter to Millican 0 dated 1/18/80 4 RAJHANS EXH. Rajhans Letter to Rostas 5P dated 4/30/80 6 RAJHANS EXH. Pikk Memo to Rajhans dated Q 10/15/80 7 RAJHANS EXH. Rajhans Letter to Millican 8R dated 7/28/81 9 RAJHANS EXH. Photocopy of Cover of Book 3 - Asbestos Sampling and 10 Analysis 11 12 13 14 iI 15 lI 16 17 I I 18 1 I 19 j 20 i I'( 21 I 22 23 24 25 I __ ____________________ ___________________________ _ __________________fl Fink & Carney Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063 1 2 Witness 3 GYAN SHANKAR RAJHANS 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 INDEX TO WITNESSES Examination BY MR. KELLY: BY MR. COLEMAN: - - I Page 251 Page 5 189 f I I I Fink & Camey Reporting and Video Services 39 West 37th Street * New York, New York 10018 (800) NYC-FINK * Fax: (212) 869-3063