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FILE NAME: Union Carbide (UC) DATE: 1986 Sept 8 DOC#: UC062 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Legal - Deposition of John L. Myers fY V u U ^ iL INC. Mo-10-17 P.0. Box 53170 Houston, Texas 77258 (713)230-0015 S e p t e m b e r 8, 1986 Mr. Ar th u r S ta mm Baker & Botts 3000 One Shell Plaza Houston, Texas 77002 Re: Civil Act i o n No. G - 8 2 - 3 25 B . R. S an f o r d vs. J o h n s - M a n v i l l e Sales D e p o s i t i o n of: John L. Myers (86-634) Dear Mr. Stamm: Enclosed herewith please find the original deposition of the witness named above. Please have the witness review and sign the deposition before any Notary Public before returning to our office. Should the wit ness find it necessary to make any changes or additions to the deposition, please use the amendment sheets enclosed. T h a n k i n g you for your a s si s t a n c e in. this matter, I remain Sincerely yours ACS/ch Enclosure cc : Alina C. Su ll i v an Mr. La wr e n ce H a d e k a h o Mr. R. Paul Yet te r Mr. Jeff M c Clu re SRG/comp 86-634 COST $...... PAID BY.PLF. DEF. !PA No._______ UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS GALVESTON DIVISION BOBBY R. SANFORD VS . JOHNS-MANVILLE SALES CORPORATION, ET AL X X X Civil Action X No . G - 8 2 - 3 2 5 X X DEPOSITION OF: JOHN L. MYERS sfSOsiSf W V R W m D m - .a , ; < COURT % EP ORTERS] */ /y INC. v , , i A* * MS-1047 P. 0 . 8 0 X 58170 Houston. Texas 77258 (713)280-0015 .1 2 I ''I 0 M A N 0 & N S W E R S of J O H N L. 2 MY KPS,, CciiJc v. a wi tncKi; by t h c. P 1 a ;in t i t f:, 1 a !:e.n b o f:o re 8 u s a n (7,01 d 3 t o i n , C o v t i i::i.o d S h o ,rf;Ina ml 4 !e d o x"t.c r in ana f o :r t h o S i a t e o f 'I1e x a 3 r a i. t h e 5 r & Uo 1 1 3 , 33 0 0 0 ne S hell P 1 a xa , 6 H o u o n t h e 4 t.h d a y of Se P 1.c inb c. x , 1 9 B 6 ,. 7 .10 p .m . , p u r s u a n t t o N o t i c e a n d t h e 8 1 a t ions: a n d w a i v e r o f c o u n s e 1 : 9 .1 0 1 1 1 2 13 A P P E A R A N C E S l 4 1 5 1 6 ] 7 1 0 Mr. L a w r e n c e M a d e k s h o , A11. o :rn c;y a L L a w , 1 9 8 3 2 0 G u I E Fr e e w a y , S u i t e 2 1 0, Ho u s t o n , T e x a s , 2 0 7 7 0 8 7, a n d M r . R o b e r t E . Ba 1 .1a r d , of t h e 3 a w i i i in 2 1 o i: A b t a h a m , W a t k i ns, N 1 c ho 1 s , B a 1.].a r & , On s t a d & 2 2. p ;ri e n d , 8 0 0 C o m ine r c e S t r e e t , B o u s t o n , T e x a a , 2 3 7 7 0 0 2 , a p p o a r i.n g E o r t h e P 1 a i n t i f: t: . 2 4 2.5 W 0 R L D W I D E C O U R T R E P 0 R T E RS, INC! f / f r* m A fcf t -71 -i \ o n n ...n n 1 n 2 /i i: 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 .1 1 2 .1. 3 1 4 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 8 M I' . h T t.h U T L t a m in, o f t h e .1a w i-i :rin o f M e s s r s . B a k e r hi 13o L L `j f O n e S h e .1.1!. P I.a x a., 1o u s 1:o n , e x a s , 7 7 0 0 2 , a p p e a r i n g f o r T h e A s b e.s t.o s C .1a i ins Fcil i ty . Mr. R. P a u l Y e t t e r , of t h e l a w f i r m o Messrs. Baker & Bolts, One Shell Plaza, Houston, Texas, 77002, appearing for Ruberoid Company. M r . J e f f M c C l u r e , of t h e 1 a w f i rin o f M e s s r a . B u t l e r & B i n i o n , 1 6 0 0 A 1 1 i e d B a itc P 1 a z a H o u s t o n , T e x a s , 7 7 0 02 , a p p e a r i n g for Pay,nark I n d u s tries . WO R L D W I D E COURT REPORTERO, INC. 3 4 5 6 7 0 9 1 0 1 J. 1 2 13 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 19 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 5 IT I5 S T I P U L A T E D ANDA G R E E D by a n d 1)c t.w o.c n c o u i)s a 1 f o r t.h e x'e ap e e t :iv e p a r i i e a h r o i o T h a 1; this d e p o s i t i o n isb e i n g ta.k o n p u r a u a n 1 t o 1 h e F e d e x-a .1. K u .1cis o f C i v i 1 P r o co d u r a . t h c o i'1 g i n a 1 o t t h 1 s d e p o s i. L i o n s h a l l b e p r e s e n t ed to t h e a t t o r n e y f:o r T h e A s h e s t o s C l a i m s F a c i 1 i ty w h o s h a .11 j.n t u r n $ u b m i t it t o t h e w i t n e s s f:o r h i s e x a m i n a t :1o n a n d ii g n i n g be tore any notary public, and thereat ter s iid a 1 1 o r n e v f o r T h e A s b e s t o s C l a i raa F ac.il x t y d i a l 1 r e t u r n same to the o f f i c e r t a k i n g this depositi.on . W O R L D W I D K C O U R T R E P 0 R T E R 5, I N C . h a v i riq be-on i::i.i r;t. dul y n ivo.i. i) t o .;t i fn c d u p o n h 1 a l h a f;o I I o v; ;; : 6 7 0 9 1 0 1 1 3. 2 1 3 .1. 4 1 5 1 6 3. 7 1 0 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 5 !'x A M I M X 1' :r c Q U E S TI 0 N S B Y M R . M A D E K S B 0: q . w o U .1.d y o u s t a t <2 y o u r f u .1..1 n a m <2 t o r t h e r e c o r d , p 1.e a se, s i r . A. Jo h n L . M y e r s . Q And how old a g e n 1 1 eman a re y o u ? A . PiEty-eight. Q . And who are you employed by? A . KCAC lucorpora t e d . Y o u ' 1.1 h a v e to e x p 1 a i n t h a t i o r us. G A , T h a t 's t h e n a m e of t h e c o m p a n y . t s j u >t. 1 et t er . q. is t h i s a sub s i d 1 ary or does i t hav e some affiliation with Union Carbide? A. No, it d o e s n ' t , ME . STAMM : The w i tness -- M H . M A D E K S H O : I<e t 's g o o f f: t h e. record a minute. (D i s c u a s i o n If: i: t h e r e.c o r d . ) WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, n a i i c 'I'HM /7 1 "A \ 9 H fi-- fifi1 F5 INC. 6 7 B 1 0 1 1 1 2 13 14 1 5 16 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 5 0 (]jy Mr. M a d e k a h o ) Mi'. Myera, y o u cU e. Catii.liar ith U n i o n C a r i i d o . hnd, an I u n d e r s t a n d it from talki no with your l a w y e r Mr. Stamm, you have been u n d e r name typo of c o n t r a c t with them f,o r s o hi c A. p c i'i o cl o i: t i m e ; ;l a t h a t c o n e c.t-? w o t a c o n t r a c t , no. I 've b e e n e.m p l o y e d b y t h a m . q . you hav e b e e n em p .1o y e d b y t h e m . W h e n w ere youemploy ed b y the m , s ir ? A . In 1951 . A nd in w h a t c a p a c i t y d id y o u 1 1 r s t go Q with the corporation' A . A n hourly em p1 Q W i t h w h a t d i v :i A . The Nuc1ea r 0i Q Let 's b a c k u p m i n u te , a n d t r y t o ge !; a n o r g a n i '/a t i o n of U n i o n C a X' w e i'e e m p l o y c cl w j.t h t h e m i u s a o ine e x p .1a n a t i o n 1 n r e c o n e e :rn 1 ng :it ;s d :Lv i a i o n a h . N o , ;t c o v .1d n 1 who 1 e corpo r a t io n ? Q Yes, sir i f /'i i s o o n ...n n 1 n 7 1 2 3 4 5 fi 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 13 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 24 2 5 A. N o , I c o u l d n 't at that time. I was e m p .1oy ecl by t h e N u c 1 c;a r I)1.via:! o a a nd h a d 1 i 1 1 3.c. - had no c o n t a c t w i t h o t h e r p a r t s ot the c o i-p o r a t i o n . q_ were you familiar w i t h the: f a c t an i,o whether or not Onion Carbide actually had other division s? A . Yes, I probably was. Q A t t h a t t i m e in 19 5 1 o r at t h i s t .im e ? A . A t t h i s t .1ine a in f:o r su r e . Q Okay. What we' r e t r y i ng t o d o , Mr . M y e r s , o b v i o u s l y is just f ind out i n f o r m a t i o n a b o u t U n i o n C a r b i d e in r e g a r d to some s p e c i E u . items. And I'm sure y o u ' v e had the o p p o r t u n i t y to d i s c u s s t h e s e items with Mr. Stamm, have you not? A . Yes, Q A n d y o u 've h a d an o p p o r t u n i. 1y t.o a e e t h i s 1 i s 1: o f t h e s e a p p r o x ! m a te 1 y n i n e i t e m s ? A . I 've h a d the li st r e a d to m e . I h a v e not se e n i t . Q Okay . MR. B A L L A l'<D : F,x c u s e m e . I 'd 1 k o t o g e t a c o p y o f: 11:i s N o I x c e m a o. e a n d a t1 a c h t:d to t h e d e p o s i t i o n . W O R L D W I D E C OURT REPORTERS, INC. r t r\ i~* m A M ! i \o n n _ n n 1 u a ( 8 x h i h i t M o . 1 ni(?. r k o 8 f o x' 2 i cli:n t.i f i c.a t 4 on. ) 3 4 P ( y Mr. M a d e k s h o ) Mr. M y e :rs , w h a n d i d 5 y o u f i r s I; I o a v e U n i o in C a r b i d e ? 6 A . A s a n e m p l o y e.e ? 7 Q Yes, sir. 8 A . On June 30th of 1985. 9 Q W h e n y o u we r e f i r s t e m p l o y e d in 19 51 1 0 with U n ion Carbide with the Nuclear Division, what 1 J. w e r e y o u r d u t i e s a t t h a 1: t i m e , s i r ? 1 2 A . T h e f i X's t e m p l o y m e n t w a s primr- i .1y a 1 3 w a i 1:in g p e r i o d to b e c o m e a c cli m a t e d to some of the 1 4 o p e r a t i o ns t h a t w e i"e g o .1n g on. I w a s a c t u a 1 1 y in 1 5 a b u 1.1 p e n , a s t hoy c a 11 u s . A l l n e w hi r es 1 6 w e r c; - - I g u e s s j u s t a n e d u c:a t i o n a 1 p e ri o d f o r 1 7 s o m e m o n t h s u n t i 1 I t o o k o v e r , w a s a e 1:u a 1 .1y g i v e n 1 8 some du t y . 19 Q. W h a t was y o u r e d u ca t i o n a l bac k g r ou nd 2 0 p r i o r to b e i n g h i r e d by U n i.o n C a ,i-b i d e ? 2 1 A . I h a v e a B .5 .C h .E . f r o m Pu r clu e 2 2 University. 2 3 p , d .id y o u h a v e a n v s t u d i o.s 1.n 2 4 f u r t h e r a n c e of any g r a d ua te degr ee s after hiring on w it h U nion Carbide? W 0 R L D W 1 D E C 0 U RT RE P 0 R T E R 8, INC /'/ 1 ^ \ n n r\ 1 2 3 6 7 0 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 ]. 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 5 Mo , Q . -?h e K u c ] o. fir i v 5 s .1 o n o f n o n C a r b i d e , basically what function did they serve tor tne c o r p o r a t i.o n ? h k a*h o y o p a r a t e d f a c i 1 i t :i o s f o r r h c A t o m i c fin <nx'g y C o iniai.s " i o n . Q _ And so eng a g e d i n t h a t p a r t ic u 1 a i ty p o a c t i.v i.t y , w h a t t y p e s o f m a t e r i a 1 s d i d t h e y h andJ e or process? A . I c a n o n 1 y s p e a k t o t h o 1 oc a tions I w a n ,. 1 1 w a s p i'i m a r i i y u i"a n 5.u m . Q A nd w h a t location was tha t , sir? A . Tii is w a s O a k R i d g e , T a n n e s s e e . Q D u r i n g y o u r i:e n u r e w i t h t h e N u c i e a Division, and, by the way, were you with the N u c 1 e a r D i v i s i o n u p u n t i i t h e t i m e t la t y o u 1 e f t U n i o n C a r b i d e in J u n e of 1985? A . No. g. W h at o t her d : thev tha n the N uc 1cax D. g i v e me so m e t y p e o f: 1 1 m ap p re c i a t e that . A . I wa a with P a d u c a h 1.n a k R i d g e n t u c k y f:r o m w e l'e y o u w i t h An d i f: y o u c o u .1d n c e , I 'd a r D i v i s x o n .in n e and then . 19 6 6 , a t w h i c h W 0 R L D W I D E C O U R T R E P 0 R T1 R S , INN C . in t i m o .V L r a n f o r r o d t.o h h e M e t a .1.s D 1 v .1:> i o n .1n 2 N 1 a g t a F a .1.1.a , New Vo rk 3 I n .19 6 7 , I w e n t: i n t o t h o C h o m i c a 1 s a n d 4 p 1 a s t !s c s D i v i 1 o n a n cl t r a n s f e r r e d 1:o t h c a s b e s t o a 5 m i n i n g a n d m i l l i n g o p e r a t i o n in K i n g Ci ty , 6 C a 1 i f:o r ri i a . 7 In 1970, I t r a n s f e r r e d back to Niag r a 0 Fal l s in the M e t a l s D i v i s i o n as M a r k e t i n g M a n a g e r 9 for Asbestos. 1 0 In 1 9 8 3., I t r a n s f e r r e d b a c k t o K i n g 1 1 C i t y , C a l i f o r n i a as P r o d u c t and. P r o d u c t i o n M a n a g e r 12 for the Asbestos Operations. 13 q . Mr. Myers, when did you first become 1 4 familiar with the fact that Union Carbide was 1 5 e i t her buy i n g , p r o c e s s i n g or s e 1 1 in g mater i a l s 1 6 containing asbestos? 1 7 A . Probably when I was approached i n 1966 1 0 a b o u t t r a ns f e r r i n g fr o m the N u c 1 e a r D i v i s i o n to 19 the asbestos ope ration. 2 0 Q, And this was in King City,C a l i f o r n i a , 2 1 was i t not? 2 2 A. No, first Ni a g r a F a 1 1 s . 2 3 Q . N i a g i-a F a 1 1 s , I 'm s o r r y . 24 At what poi n t in t i me were you 2 5 t r a n s f e r r e d to the King City a s b e s t o s m ine in W O R L D W I D E C O U RT REPORTERS, IN C . / i n \ *>M A n n i c 3 4 5 6 7 B 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 i 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 n .ry) 2 4 2 5 1 9 6 7 . What phiiije or: 1:h e o p e x a t :io n w a s t h a t p a r 1:i<:u 1 a r ini n e i n ? 1.i; t: 1 r s t b e g i n n i ng o r h a d t h e inI n e b e n 1.n i 5. o n f:o r a n u m b r r o f: yea r s? A . T hia in:in e a n d 1 9 6 3. il Okay . A . I 'in s o r r y . T h e p r o d u c t ;io n w a 5 star't e d in 1963 . While you were also with the Nuclear Q D i v i s i o n , w e r e n ' t Y u a ].s o i n v o l v e d w i L h p r o c e s s i n g of a s b e s t o s f i b e r s and a s b e s t o s ore as well? A . 1n the Q Ye s , s i A . No . Q W h o w a s t.h e p r es.id e n t o f t h e N u c 1 e a r Division at that ti A . I don't 0 Was it n a ine s o u n d f a m i.1 i.a i A . I know me, 1 d o n ' t k n o w t h a t ire w a s p 3"e s 1 d e n t . W 0 RLDWID E C 0 U RT RKFOR T E R S , INC /-7 1 \ o n n ._r>n 1 c: 1.1. 0 A t the t i.m o thn i; y o u 2 ]9 6 7 w i th, 1 b co1 ie V CO i t. W cl / t "nc .J D i v j.s 1 o n ? 4 A . M i n i n g a nd M e t a :ts 5 Q - T hat w a s th e pr op tor 6 ii. * y e h . I 'in s o r r y r i t 7 t o t hie M e ta 1 s Divi. s i o n 3 o ine t i m e . T h a t w a s '66, 8 q . A r e y o u f a m i l i a r w i t h a ge n 1.1 e ina n by 9 the name of B . R . Buck, Burton B u c k ? 1 0 A . i t h i n k I remeitib e r t h a t n a m e , y 2 s . 1 .1 q . a n d w h o w a.s he? I 2 A. . He might have been, I think, personnel 1 3 perhaps. 1 4 q . W a s h e not. t h e p r e s i d e n t of t h a t 1 5 division? Does that help refresh your 16 recollection? 1 7 A . N o !; t h a t I k n o w of. .1 8 Q What. is y o u r u n d e r s b a n d i n g as to h o w 1 9 1 o n g the a s b e s t o s m i n e a t K i n g C i t y h a d b e e n in 2 0 peralion? 2 1 A . 1 1 w a s started in 1963. 2 2 Q Fr om whom wa s Union Carbide purchasing 2 3 t hie i r a s b e s t o s f i b e r s p r i o r t.o 3 9 6 3? 2 4 A . I ha ve no id ea . 25 q . w h o wer e t.he y p u r c hia s i n g t he. as b e s t o WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, INC / i n \ n r\ 1 o 3 4 c; 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 5 1 3 t::i.b o v s f r o m 1.n .19 8 3 d u r i n g t he t i m e tha' t; y o u w e i n v o .1v e d w it th t h e Mortals a n d M 1 n i n g D 1 v i s :ion o i" t:h o M in 1 n g a n d M <;t a 1 s D i.v/i s 1o n ? j\ , Wh :ic. h 1 o c a t i o n ? I d o n 't -- A t. a n y l o c a t ion, s i.r . A . I. 'm n o t f a rni .11.a r w .1t h t h a t . T h a t 's n o t in m y - - I ' m n o t f a m i 1 i a r w i t h t h a I;. q ,, /re y o u f am i 1 i a r w i t h t h e f a c t t h a t U n i o n C a r b i d e p u r c h a s e d a s b e s t o s f i b e r s f:rom o t h e i c o rnp a n i e s ? A . I b e came famili a r t hr o ug h the y ears . I d o n 't k n o w w h e n I g a .i.n e d t h a t k n o w l e d g e . Q . w i t h w h o m d i d y o u b e c o m e fa ini .11 a r w i t h a s to the s o u r c e of s u p p l y of a s b e s t o s f i b e r s to U ti i o n C a r b 1.d e ? A . ;[ w a s n o t i n v o l v e d w i t h s u p p l y i n g a s b e s t o s f:i b e r s . Q . N o , s x r , I 'in ~ - A . y o u m e a n fr o m o t h e r s o ur c e s ? q _ yes , sir. I-n r e g a r d t.o f r o m w h o rn Union Carbide was purchasing their asbestos. A . No, I'm not a:nilia r with t h a t . q_ You were aware of the fact that Union C a r b i d e did p u r c h a s e large q u a n t i t i e s of asbes t o s f i b e r s f r o m - o t h e r s u p p .1i e r s , o t h e r m a n u t:a c t u r e r s ? W R L D W I D 12 C 0 U 1?T R E P O 12T E R S , IN C m a n m-- rs K-t /n i o \ -> n - n n t n :i 4 ]. (ftV A t w h a 1. t:i m !:r a m o 2 Q A l. a n y t ;irn f: :ra ine . 3 A . Yes . 4 Q . A n d w h a t. t :i.ine f: r a ine a r c. w e t a 1 k i n g r> a b o u t , 1 e t 's t a k e i t i;h a 1: w a y ? 6 A . And a g a i n , 1 t d e p e n ds on what y o ur 7 d e i n i t i o n of .large q u a n t i t y i s . B Q W e 11, 1 et 's u s e -- 9 A . P r o b a b l y in 1970 when I b e c a m e 1 0 Market ing Ma n a g e r . 1 1 Q L e t 's say a m i 1 1 i on p o u n d s a year. 1 2 A . A mi 1 lion p o u n d s . W h a t i s that, 5 1 3 tons? 1 4 Q Yes, sir. .1 5 A , Y e s , I --- I 6 Q W o u l d t ha t S C)u n d -- 1 7 A . I a s s u m e s o . I 'm n c71; s u i-e o f 1 8 q u a n t 5.t i e s 19 Q O r w o u l d t h a t b e a 1 i 11.1 e b i t. .1o w ? 2 0 A . I have no idea really. I w a s n o t 2 3 i n v o l v e d wi t h p u r c. h a s i n g a s b e s t o s . 2 2 Q . A r e y o u f a m .11 i a r w i t h a n y o I:h e r s i t e s , 2 3 o t h e r than the K i n g C i t y Mine, as to w h e r e 2 4 asbestos ore was p r o c e s s e d by Union Carbide ? 2 5 A . It w a s n o t p r o c e. s s e d a n y p 1 a c.e. e 1 s e . WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, M /*x r i f m f\ K1 INC I 0 . Other t h a ) K r nu c .1 y ? A . That' r; t !o o n i y !a c :i,1x ty , y e s , t h c. .3 o p o r a t x on. 4 0 . 1"):I.d U n 1 O T) C a r hi d o h a.v e a n y o t h c. r 5 t o s ni n e s o t h e r {;h a.n t h O Kin g C x 1:y M in e ? 6 i m :1t i n q t.h a t t.o 1.h e U n i t e d S t a t.e s . I 'm 7 t a l k i n g a b o u t C a n a d a a n d So u t h A f r i c a a ;> well. 8 A , i have h e ar d or been no t directly 9 i n v o l v e d in an a s b e s t o s o p e r a t i o n in Z i m b a b w e . I 1 0 don't think it has o perated or been o p e r at ed tor 1 1 so m e ti m e . 1 2 q . is t h a t Deal-Min e r a 1 s , mi n e r a 1 f i b e r s ? 1 3 A . I d o n 't know. i 4 q . W h e n did you firs t lieco m e a w a r e t h a t 1 5 they had an a s b e s t o s mine in Z i m b a b w e as well? 1 6 A . I c a n 't r e ine m b e r t Ina t . .1. 7 Q A p p l'o x i m a t e .1y , s :i.r , w h a t d e c a d e ? 1 8 A . W h a t. cle c. a d e ? 1 9 Q Y e s , sii'. 2 0 A . The seventies . 2 1 Q E a r .1.y , m i d , 1 a t.e s e v e n t i e s , if y o u 2 2 can ? 2 3 A . ! c.o u .1d n 1t tel .1 y o u . 2 4 q , D.i.d U n i o n C a r b i d e a l s o s e l l a s b e s t o s 2 5 f ib er s to o th er c on s um er s? W O RL DW I DE COURT REPORTERS, INC. 1.6 1 r ,. Other than hh e m s o 1v e s ? 2 Q. Y e s , s :l r . J A . Yes . A n d t o w h o in d 5.d t h e y a .1y o a e .11 5 a shestos ibers ? 6 A . Y o u ine a n a 1 i s t o f c u s t o ine r r;? 7 Q Yes, sir. 0 A . I c o u l d n ' t . r e ine inb e r a l l of o u r 9 custom er names . 1 0 q. W e .11 , .1e t ' s g o b a c k a n d t r y to 1 1 r e m e m b e r the ones that you can. 1 2. A . 01), w e l l , K e n t i l e F 1 o o r s , G A F 1 3 Corporation , Uvalde, Arms tr o ng 1 M R . B A L L A R D : A r ins t r o n g C o r k .1 Company? 1 6 T H E W .T N E S 55 : I d o n 't k n o w 1 7 w h e t h e r i t w a s c a 1.1 e d c o r k . A r nis t r o n g B u i l d i n g 1 8 Product s 1 think i t was. 1 9 MR . B A L L A R D : T hank you. I ju s 2 0 w a n t e d to c 1 a r i fy t h a t . 2 1 A . Celotex. 22 Q (By M r . M a d e k s h o ) F i b r e b o a r d ? 2 3 A . N o t t h a t 1 r e c a .1..1 . 2 4 Q Y o u w e r t f a m :i.1 i a r w i t h t h e f a c t t h a t 2 55 F i b r e b o a r <i h a d a 1 a r g e n u m b e r of p 1 a n t s in t h e WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, INC 1 7 o i. C a.1 i ;or n I a , w cir c; y '' n o t 2 \ > N o , I 'in n o 1; i: a hi :i1 .ia .i' t h a t. t h o y ilu ml) e r o f p i.a n t s . <1 0 . W c. 11 , y o u 'r u f a ni .1;ia r w i t.h t h e t h Ciy lia d a n u m h e r o ; n 1 a n t s i n t h o S t a G o r n :l a , a l'e y o u n o t , s i.r ? 7 A . I 'm f a m i 1 i.a r w i t h o n e 8 Q W h i c:h o n e is t h a t ? E m e r y v i 11 e ? 9 A . So me w h e re in t h e Bay A r e a . . 1 O Q E m e.r y v i 1 J.e i s i n t h e B a y A r e a , ]. 1 n o t ? 1 2 A . Yes . 13 Q A n d h o w d :i.d y o u b e c o m e f a m i .1i a r w i t h 1 4 t h e tael; t h a t F i b r e b o a r d liad a p l a n t a t 1 5 E m e r y v i 1 le? 1 6 A . .TL c a n 't i-e ine m b c r t h a t . 1 7 Q Do y o u r e c a 1 .1 t h e e x t e n t of a n y s a 1 C i s 1 8 t h a t w e.r e m a d e t o F i b r e b o a r d d u r i n g t h e P e r i od o f; 1 9 t i m e 1;h a t y o u w e r e w i.t;h t h e M i n i n g a n d M e t a 1 s 2 O Div ision ? 2 1 A . T o m y k n o v;.1.e d g e , t.h e r e w e r e no n e . 2 2 Q I n r e g a r d to t h e g e n e r a 1 k n o w 1 e d g e 2 3 t h a t y o u h a d a -it. t.h e t i m e t h a t t h e a s b g s t o s f i.b e r 2 4 w e r e b e i n g m i n e d a n d s o J.d b y U n i o n C a r b i de, w h a t 2 9 was y o ur unde r stan d i n g a s to t he use of t he fibers WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS u n n t; m Kl 7 1 8 > 2 fi f) - fi fl 1 9 INC . 1 8 1 2. ..j 4 5 6 7 0 9 0 1 .1. 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1. 9 2 0 2 .1 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 5 b y h h e p u rc.li a s e r s ? 1 A , What, do y o u m e a n w h a t was my u n d e v ?5 ta n d .i.n g ? 0 . Y o u r u n d e r r>t a n d i n g a s t o w r1a t t.h e a s h c s t o s f i b e r 3 w e r e i;o b e us e d f o r . A . W a 1.1 , in a w i d e r a n g a o f i n d u s t r i cl..1 products , vinyl asbestos floor tile. fi Is that 1 ike t he f l o o r t i 1 e t h a t w e h a v e in our h o m e s ? A . If you have v i n y 1 a s b es to s f 1 o o r t i 1 e , yes . Th e r e a r e -- q , i*ni s o r r y , I d o n 't m e a n to c u t y o u oft', b u t t h e v i n y l a s b e s t os is a t y p e of p j. o d u c t t h a t ' s c o m m o n l y used in h o mes and o f f i c e s and h o s p i t a l s a n d s c h o o l s a n d t h i n g s ot: t h a l n a t u r e ? A. Yes, yes. A s p h a .11 r o o i:i n g c o m p o u n d s . p _ i,o t m e j u s t a s k y o u s o m e t n i n g a b o u t t he a s p h a .11 r o o f i n g c o m p o u n d s . W o u l d t h e a s p h a 1 1 c o m p o u n d s t h a t had the a s b e s t o s a l s o be used foi r o a d s and p a r k i n g lots a n d t h i n g s of that n a t u r e ? A . No. q . G o a h e a d . I 'm ~ r Y A T h e pu i p h nd p a p er industry . r e s .in a p p .1i c a 1:i o n s , t a p e 'j o i n t c o m p o u n d s . ~ ' w 0 )'i I . DW 3 D E C O U R rJ.' !?IP 0 R T K R S , I N C . 2 3 o 7 8 9 1 0 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1. 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 2d 2 5 A <:o u r t i c a .1. e cai 1 i n g t iI o . r.o i. s e o . S o m e p 1a s t ic re a n i or ee :.;e.:t , ;t can't, r e c a l l I 'in s u r e t h e r e a r e o t h e r s , b u !: I c a n ' t rec.i 1 .1 a n y . q 4 l , a t 'y b a c k u p jn o w , x f. w e c.o u i d , i n r e g a r d to the vinyl a s b e s t o s floors that the asbestos fibers were being used for and being sold to o t h e r m a n u f a c t u r e r s of these p r o d u c t s . To w h o m do you r e c a l l the a s b e s t o s b e ing sold to that would use that in the m a n u f a c t u r i n g and p r o d u c t i o n a n d sale of vinyl a s b e s t o s 1 o o r products ? 2^ _ 'Phat. w o u 1 d b e K e n ti 1 e , G A i , Armstrong. Another customer 1 didn't mention, American Biltrite. Uvalde. That should be about all of the -- Q W h a t about C e 1 o t ex? \ T h e y cli d n ' t m a n u a c t u r c- f !.o O 1" t l i e , m y k 1o w e d g e . I f t h e y did, w e d i d n ' t s e 1 1 to them Q A t t.he s a m e. 1'.i m e w a s U n i o n C a r b i d e a 1 s o u s .n g a s b e s t o s f i b e r s i.o m a n u f a c t u re a n d p r o d u c c: a rid s e .11 v i n y 1 a s b e t o s f 1 o o r t.i .1e r> 1;h e m $ e 1 v e s ? A . No . Q L c.t s g o i o t h e n e x t a r e a t.h a t y o u W 0 R L DWID E C 0 U RT REPORTERS, n r\ n c M`A W { 7 1 3 ^ 8 0 -- 0 0 ].8 INC 2 0 i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 .1 1 2 1 3 1 3.4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 21 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 5 men t Io m u l to us in r e g a r d to the a s p h a l t r o o t i n g . The aa me q u e s t i o n with regard to the m a n u f a c t u r e r s t h a t y o u r e c a l 1. t h a t U n i o n C a r b i d e s o l d t h e i r a s b e v, t o a f. 3 b o r s t o f o r t.h o ina tiu i a c t u i e a T>d p i-o d u e t i o n a n d s a .1.a o f v a r i o u s a. s p h a .1.t. r o o L x n g prod u c t a . A . M o n s e y P r o d u c.t s . 1'h o s e a r e m a i n l y sma ll -- l e t 's see -- I t h i n k t h e r e ' s one c a l l e d Wo rId Asphalt. p, Now, when I'm aski n g this, sir, I d o n 't m e a n for you to limit your e n u n c i a t i o n of these v a r io u s m a n u f a c t u r e r s to the ones that we v e d i s c u s s e d p r e v i o u s l y . I want you to go a h e a d and i n c l u d e t h o s e in each one of t h e s e a r e a s of p r o d u c t s that you m e n t i o n e d to us e a r l i e r . h , I ' m t r y i n g . I t h i n Jc C e 1 ot ex u s e d o u r p r o d u c t i n a r o o f i n g m a t e .r:i.a 1 , b u t 1 d o n ' t t h i n k i t w a s a s p h a l t . I c a n ' t r e ine inb e i . q. Wh a t a b o u t CAP in r e g a r d to the f o o f i n g m a t e r .ia .1s ? . No, not t o m y r e c a 11. I c a n ' t r e c.a 11 a n y o i: t h e o t h e :r r o o f :i.n g m a n u f a c t u r a r s . q _ j n i-e q a r d t o t h e n a m e s t h a t y o u h a d m e n t i o n e d e a r l i e r as to the m a n u f a c t u r e r s of t h e s e a s b e s t o s - c o n t a i n i n g p r o d u c t s to whom O n ion C a r b i d e WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, s\ > * r* in /"\ V'l INC. J w a s s e 11 i ng t lio ir m a t cr :i iI s , w e ha d d j.r;c u s;>o d a 2 Tium her o i t.h c m h o :re. a nd 5 ju s t w a n 1. to a s k y o u 3 a b o u t some of the o t h e r s Yo u lia d i.nd ic a ted tha t 4 you d I d n 't r v. c a 1.1 a n 1'.o \vh e.t h cr o r n o t ']n i o n 5 C a r b id e soId t h oi r as bos' ;os fib o r s t o F .1b i'e b oa r d . 6 W ha t abo u t Owens-Corni ng , air ? 7 A. We h a v e so l d a s b e s t o s to 8 O w e n s - C o m i n g , yes. 9 Q. And this was dur i ng wh a t p e r i o d of 1 0 time, to the best of your r e c o l l e c t i o n ? 1 1 A. Oh, in t h e - - p r o b a b l y in t h e m i d to 1. 2 l a t e s e v e n t i e s , p e r h a p s e a r l y e i g h t i e s . I 'm n o t 1 3 sure when they s t o p p e d pur aliasing. 1 1 Q. A n d as t o y o u r r c o l l e c t i o n and you r .1 5 knowledge, for what was Owens-Corning using the 1 6 a s b e s t o s f i b er s t h a t y o u a l 1 w e r e s e 11 i n g t h e m 1 7 d u r i n g t h a t p o r i o d o f t i me ? 1 0 A . 11 wa s us ed in p o 1 y es t.e r r e s i n . 1 9 Q . A n d t lie p o 1 y e s t o r r e s i n s a r e u s e d i n a 2 0 l a r g e v a r i e ty of p r o d u c t s , a r e they n o t 9 2 .1 A . Ye s , I a s s u m e t h e Y ire . 2 2 Q C o u 1 d y o u t e 1 .1. U J s o m e o f t h e m o r 23 c o m m o n p r o d uc 1;s t h a t we k n o w of t h a i; c o n s i s t 2 4 t h e p o l y e st r 1"e :1n a ? 2 55 A. Boat hulls is one and shower W 0 R L D W I D E C 0 U R T R E P 0 liT E R S , IN C . f T /*\ n (< m / S K1 /'? 1 n *>n n n n i c: , 2 2 1 e n c .1.o r, u r o s , a u t o m o b i .1.o b o 1i e s . T h a t 's a 1.1 I c a n 2 thInk of . 3 Q . 0 k a y , we' 1.1 c o rnc: b a c k a n d I '1.1 d i s c u s a 4 a a n!e a t h c r o 1:h e a e p 1 a s t i c s a n d p r o d u c t s w i t h y o u 5 a 1 :i1 1 1 e b i i .1a t e..r, b u t I w a n t t o m o v e on to 6 a.nother area . 7 You had indicated that youall were 0 a l s o s e l l i n g i 1: to t h e m a n u f a c t u r e r s i n t h e p a p e r 9 and pulp industry. Which ones, to which of the 1. 0 manut'act u r e r s in the a p er and p u l p Indus try do 1 1 you recall that Union Carbide was selling their 1 2 asbestos fibers? 13 A. Boise Cascade. That was really -- the 1 4 market was essentially out when I became Marketing 1 5 M a n a g e r and as -- I'm t r y i n g to r e m e m b e r . 1 6 Q . Did youall also sell some to Champ i o n ? 1 7 A . I t h 1.n k I r e m e m b e r t h a t n a m e . M o s t o f 1 8 the m a jo r c o m p a n i e s r a n t r i a l s . U n f o r t u n a t e l y , 1 9 little sales developed and no c ontinuing sales. 2 0 T h a t 's t he r e a s o n I h a v e a h a r d t i me r e m e m b e r i ng 2 1 the names. 2 2 Q . D o y o u .re c a 11 a 1 s o s e 11 i n g t h e 2 3 a s b e s t o s I:i b e r s to O w e n s - I l l i n o i s in r e g a r d t o 2 4 t h e 1.r w o o d a n d p a p e r p u l p o p e r a t i o n s ? 2 5 A . No . WOR LDWI DE COURT REPORTERS, INC. r-To ri t; !>n w / 7 1 n \ -> n n n n 1 c 2 3 1. 0 . o o y o u I-o hio nib r 3.n w i'ia I; c o n n e c 1:io n 2 U n i o n Carbide: wan nell 3 ng an ben ton fiber:; to 3 0 w a n a 1 I.1.i Tio 1.a d.u r i n g y ur n u r w ^ t h t h e m ? 4 ,, '['o iny knowictlci!.;, wo d i d n o t n o l i to 5 0 wo n s - I I I in o i r> . 6 0 . IIa v e y o n s i n c c. J.e a r n e d f r o m w h o in 7 O w e n s - IJ. 1 i n o i s w a s p u r c h a s i n g t h e i r a s b e s t o s a fib er s? 9 A . Do I know ? .1 0 0 . Y e u , s :ir . 1 1 A . N o , I d o n ' t. 1 2 Q By the way, Mr. Myers, in r e g a r d 1 3 y o u r K .1n g C i t y M i n o , w h a t t y p e of a s b e s t o s f 1 4 d id th a t m i n e consist of? 1 5 A . It w o u 1d b e s h o r t f i b e r c h r y s o ti 1 6 asbestos. 3. 7 Q . J u s t t h e c h r y n o t ;i.1e , t he s h o r t f i b e r 1 0 e h r y s o t i .1.e ? 1 9 A . S h o r t fi b e r 2 0 Q H o w nia n y d i f E e r e n t g r a d e s d i d y o u h a v e 2 1 there , sir? 2 2 A . One. 23 Q A n d w h a t g r a d e w a s t la t ? 2 4 A . W e d o n 't c 1 a s s i f y i t b y -- i f y o u ':re 25 t a 1 k i n g a b o u t. C a n a d i a n g r a d e s , it w o u 1 d a l l b e WO RLD WID E COURT REPORTERS, INC. u A iicp A M / 7 i \ 7 n n - n n 1 q 2 4 1 s j.nii .1.a r L oa (4v a d e 1 , 0 r a d o 7~ R t , w lii c h is l.h o 2 a h o r t e a t. C a n a d i a n g r a d e . 3 q. And, a l s o , in .regard to y o u r Z i m b a b w e 4 ini n e , w h a t t y p e of a r>b a s t o s f i b e r s d i d t h a t. m i n e 5 p r o d u c e , s .1r ? 6 A. Well, you say produce. I'm not sure 7 that it ever produced. 8 Q. Right. I u n d e r s t a n d . Some of it 9 m i ght be a l i t t l e fuzzy to you, but I'm simpl y 1 0 just trying to get your best understanding. 1 1 A. You said produce. I have no k n o w l e d g e 1 2 that it did p r o d u c e a n y t h i n g ~~ 1 3 Q - They just simply were mining the 1 4 asbestos ore? 1 5 A . I *m n o t s u r e i t ' s e v e r b e e n a 1 6 p r o d u c i n g m i n e . T h e g r ad e s were, as I u n d e r s t a n d .1. 7 it, 4, 5 a n d 6 . 1 8 Q Oka y , from the Zimbabwe? 1 9 A . Yes. Rhodesia at that time. Tha t was 2 0 p r i m a r i l y from U . S . B u r e a u of Mines rep o r t s that 2 ]. read . 2 2 Q When d id you r ead the se U . S . Bureau 2 3 M 1nes repo rts? 2 4 A . I t o 1 d y o u e a r l i e r ' I c a n n o t r c m e inb e r 2 5 Q I d i d n 't r e ca 11 us d i s c u s s 1 n g ...,, WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, m n n q t n N l 7 1 3 V2 Q 0 --0 0 1 5 INC. 1 A. Y o u a s k e d mo, w h e n I to u n d o u t a b o u t 2 t h e k !Io d s :la o r a b o u t t h e m i n a y t hie x-c . 3 Q , B u t I d i d n 't a s k a b o u t r e a d i n g a iiy U . /I 3 . B u r c a u o I. M i n on r e p o r t s . 5 A, I c.an 't r e m e m b e r . 6 Q W h e r e d i d y o u r e a d t h o s e U . 5. B u r e a u 7 of Mines repo rts ? 0 A . P r o b a b l y in N i a gr a Fa 1 1 s , New York. 9 Q Didn't Union Carbide also have a 1 0 r e s e a r c:h a n d d e v e 1 o m e n t. l a b o r a t o r y s o m e w h e r e ]. 1 the r e in New York, T u x e d o , New York or s o m e w h e r e 12 c..1o s e to - t h e r e , s i r ? .1 3 A . Yes, they have several research 1 d l a b o r a t o r i e s . T h e r e is one in T u x e d o , yes 1 5 Q A n d is this the la rg e s t one for U ni o n 1 6 Carbide ? 1 7 A . I d o n 't know. 1 0 W h e r e is the o t h e r o ne 1 o c ate d the r e 1 9 i n Ne w York? 2 0 A . I t h i n k t h e r e 's o n e in S t e r .1i n g 2 1 F o r e s t . Metals r e s e a r c h was in Niagra Falls. T 2 2 t h 1 n k t h e.r e w a s s o m e in T a r r y t o w n , N e w Y o r k , a n d 2 3 p r o b a b 1 y o t h e r 1 o c a t i o n s w i t:h w h i c h 1 'm n o t 2 fam i 1iar ' 25 Q S i r , i n r e g a r d to some o f th e W O R L D W I D E COURT REPORTERS, INC. I 2 6 1 r e a p o n s i b 1 J.11: i.o s a nd du. 1;i e o o t t h o .1a b o r a i.o.t y a.nd 2 j'e s c.'a r c.h d e p a :rl.ne n t i.1")c 3:'o a t 'J.'u x e d o a n d S t.R 3. J. n g 3 P o r e 3 t , .1;.5 n ' I- .i.6 6r u 0 t h a t h h e y w e r 0 a 1 a-o 1 n v o 1 v e d 4 w i t h t h e u s e o t o r t.r y in g t o f. i n d n e w u s o s i:o r 5 a s b e s t o s f .1b e r ? 6 A , N o t to iny k n o w l e d g e . A l t h o u g h , t h a t 7 was before my involvement. 8 q . B e f o r e y o u r i n v o l v e m e n t at. w h a t p e r i o d 9 of t i m e ? I k n o w it g e t s a l 1 t t i e c o n u s i n g in 1 0 r e g a r d to these years, but we need to try to kee p 1 J. the r e c o r d just as s t r a i g h t as we can. 1 2 A. - I b e c a m e i n v o l v e d in 1966. 1 3 q, If we c o u l d , I n e e d to go back and 1 4 t.o u c h on s o m e of t h e s e o t h e r m a t e r i a l s that, y o u 1 5 had mentioned earlier about the tape joint ]. 6 c o m p o u n d s and as to whom U n ion C a r b i d e was s e 1 ling 1 7 t h e i r a s b e s t o s f 1.b e r s d a r i.n g t h e p e r i o d of t i m e 1 8 t h a t y o u ' r e m o s t f a m i l i a r with.. A n d w h o w o u 1 d 1 9 some of those o t h e r ma n u fa c t urers b e ? 2 0 a . The tape join t custom er s? 2 1 Q yes sir. 22 A . U . . Gypsum, N at ional Gyp sum , several 2 3 s m a l l c o m p a n i e s i n T e xa s . I c a n ' t - -- t h o s e a r e 24 the major names that I can r ememb er . 2 5 Q . L e t ' 3 m o v e o n to t h e a c o us 1 1 c a 1. WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, h o i!n t n M t 7 1 3 1 2 8 0 - 0 0 1 5 INC. 2 7 c'e i 1 i n q i.j. g x , 1X w o c. o u J.d. , 7 n x o g cixd. L o t h e n a nig 3 o m a xiu f n c i.u r c:x sw h o w o r o p u r c h ets i xig a n cl u s .in g a n d p r o d u c i n g p r od u c t s co n t a i n i n g t h o a i?b e s t e s t h a t c a n r e . c a 1 1 , q j l ' 1' A . C o nw ed C or po ra tio n . Perhaps Celotex 6 n o t s u x 1 e 1. f we e v e r s o J.d to C e 1 o t e x . 7 Q L e t me j u s t a s lc y o u s o m e t h i n g f o r a 8 s e c o n d in r e g a r d t.o C e l o t e x . W e r e y o u g e n e r a l l y 9 a m i ].i a r w i t h t h e b u s i n e s s t h a t C e l o t e x w a s i n ]. 0 d u r i n g t h i s p e r i o d o f: t .1me, i n t tie l a t e s i x t i e s ? J. 1 A . i k n o w 1;Itey m a n u f a c t u r e d a lot of -~ 1 2 oh, in the late, s i x t i e s X was not f a m i l i a r with 1 3 it. I be c a nie fa m i l i a r wh e n I b e c a m e M a r k e t i n g 1 4 Manager. know th e y made a wide range of 1 5 b u i l d i n g p r o d u c t s . I 'm not any more f a m i l i a r than 1 6 that with them. 1 7 p _ j n j'e g a r d t o t h e a c o u s t i c a 1 c e i.l i n g 1 8 til es , A rm s t ro n g w a s a 1 s o a man u fa c tu r e r o t t h o s e 1 9 products. Do you recall Union Carbide selling 2 0 sbesto s f i b e r s to A r m s t r o n g du r i n g th i s per iod of 2 1 t i.rne as w e 11 ? 2 2 A . N o t h o m y k n o w J.e d g e . 2 3 q. I r e c a l l that O w e n s - C o r n : n g was 2 4 a 1 3 o -- w e l l , y o u 've a 1 r e a d y t o 1 d us a b o u t 25 O w e n s - C o r n i n g . I 'm s o r r y . WORLDWIDE COURT R E P O RT ER S , INC fiorir'mAKi /*71 ^ \ 0 0 0 - 0 0 1 2 0 [lavo M u r r e b e e n a n y o t h e r ina n u a e. t u i e;r s 1.h a t w e h a v e n o t. cla s c u s s cod t h a t h a v c come to mind, 3 irV A . o f c o i 1 i n g t.i l e ? Q . Yen, a i r . 6 ]\ , l c a n 't r e m e inb o r a n o t h e r n a m e . I k nov 7 there was at least one other. Wood Conversion, I B d o n ' t k n o w w h e t h e r that, w a s ----- I ' m s o r r y , I c a n 't 9 remember any others. 1 0 q , Do you know whether or not Un io n 1 1 C a r b i d e w a s s e l l i n g a s b e s t o s (:i b e r s to a n y p a i n t 1 2 manu facturers? 1 3 A . Yes. 1 4 Q And who would those be, sir? 1 5 A . Standard Brands, Kelly-Moore, Fuller 1 6 O ' B r i e n w a s a p a i n 1 ina n u f a c:t u r e r , b u t I d o n ' t J. 7 t h i n k t h e y w e r e u s i n g t h e p r o d u c t in p a i n t . I 1 8 c a n ' t r e c a l 1 a ny ot he.rs . 1 9 q. We re you f a m i l i a r w i t h any of t he 2 0 o t h e r ini n e s i n C a] i f o r n i a a t t h i s t i m e p e r i o d of, 2 3. say, fr o m '66 up i n t o t h e s e verities? 2 2 MR. S T A M M : Y o u m e a n a s h e s t.o s 2 3 m i n e s?? 2 4 MR. MA D E K S H 0 ; Rig h t , t h e 2 5 a s b e s t o s m i n e s . I 'm s o r r y WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, INC rrn n c m A M /r7 1 *}\ o n n -- n n 1 2 Q . (H y M r . Ma d e Its h o ) A a d w h i c h ini n e s 3 w o u l d t host; b e ? 4 A. The Atlas Asbestos Company and 5 Joh ns-Manville. 6 q . A n d w a s t h e J o h n s --Manvil 1 e ini n et h e 7 one at Coal inga? a A . Yes. 9 q . And they were the m a j o r i t y o w n e r s of 1 0 that mine? 1 1 A. 1 d o n 't know. 1 2 q , / Do you know the type of a s b e s t o s tha t 13 they mined at that location, sir? 1 4 A . The same type as our mine. 1 5 q . T he r e a s o n I n e e d to ask y o u about, 1 6 t h a t isb e c a u s e I h a v e r e ad so m e o E the 1 7 J o h n s - M a n v .i11 e m i n i n g r e p o r t.s i ridic a t i n g t h a t t h e y 1 8 w e r e m i ni ng c r o c i d o l i te a t t h e C o a 1 i n g a Mi n e . 1 9 A . T h a t ' s c o m p 1 ete news to me. X 'm n o t 2 0 a w a r e of: a n y d e p o s i t o r y in t h e St a t e of: C a l i f o r n i a 2 1 other than the chrysoti1e . 2 2 q. W h a t w a s t h e m o n t h l y p r o d u c t i o n oil t h e 2 3 a sb e s t.os f r o m th e K i n g C i t y M i n e ? 24 A. At what period ? 25 q . A t t.h e p e r i o d o f: t i.ine t h a t y o u ' r e most: W O R L D W I D E COURT REP O R T E R S , INC, 3 0 1. f:<iin,i ).i.(Vr 1w til, s I;a r t j.n g i.n 1;h e '6 0 - 'G 7 y o a r . 2 h . P .ro b a b l y w o u Id r a Jig a f r o m 2 5 t.o 3 0 3 t h o u a a n d i;o n s p e r y e a :r . A Q . A n d o f t h a t p a r t i c u 1 a i' p r o d u c t i o n , w h a t p e r c ie n t a g e o f t h a t w o u 1 d b e u s .id b y U n i o n 6 Carbide:? 7 A . E s s e n t i a 11 y 7. a r o . 8 0 . Y o u 'r e f a m i 1 i a r w i t l i:h e v a r i o u s 9 o p c:r a t.io n s i n w h ic h Union C a r b i d e did us e t h e .1 0 a s bestos fibers, though, are you no 1;? 1 1 A. Not very familiar, but with s om e I am, 1 2 yes . 0 . W h .ic h di vis i o n s a re you mos t fa m i l i a r with in reg a r d to the p u r c h a s e and use of a sbestos 1 F fibers i n e it her the m a n u f a c t u r i n g , the process .in g r tiie p r o d u c t i o n of: m a t e r i a l s or products? 1 7 Mi?. STAMM: To the ex t e n t you 1 8 know 1 9 A . Wh ich d i.v i s i o n s ? 2 0 Q y Mr. Madeksho) Ye 3 / Si". 2 1 A . T 1: C Ite mi ca 1 s a n d Pia s t i c.s D i v i s io n . 2 2 Q And (it's t a 1 k a b o u t the c lie m i.c a 1 e n d 2 3 f. i r a t . W h a t w o u b t h e a s b e s t o s t i b e r s b e u s ed t o r 2 4 i n r e g a i;d to t h e C h e m j.c a J. D i v i s i o n ? 2 5 A. T h a t ' s all o n e d i v i s i o n , C he m i c a Is a n d WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, n f\ n CT rn rA M / 7 i i \ >n n ... n n i c: INC. 3 I P I a s t i.c :> . q . H i q h t . I u n d a r s l.a n d t h a t . I k n o w i;h a t. I u. n d e r r> t a. n d t h :>. I: . B u t .1. w a n t: t o t;a. .1.k a b o u t first in .regal'd t o t h e c h e m i c a l s e n d . M a y b e i t ' s a s x t u a t i.o n t h a t; I h a v o t r o u b 1 e u n d c r s t a n d i n g 6 a d i s t i n c t i o n b e t.w e e n c h e m i c a l s a n d p l a s t i c s , b u t 7 I'm just t a l k i n g a b o u t it in the g e n e r i c sense. 8 A. Asbestos was used for a short period 9 of t i m e in a -- w e l l , t h a t w a s n ' t in t h e C.h e ini c a 1 s 1 0 D i v i s i o n , but in the c h e mi c a 1 c a l l e d P r e stone. 1 1 q , T h i s i s t h e a n t i f .re e z e? 12 A. . Yes. Well, I'm not sure if it was 1 3 a n t i f r e e z e or a s t o p - l e a k formulation. 1 4 q. And what other chemicals was 0n ion Ca r b i d e u s i ny the asbestos for that they w e r e 1 6 se 1 1 ing ? 1 7 A . N o n e t o inv k n o w l e d g e . 1 8 Q 0 t lae .r t.h a n t h e P r e s t o n e ? 19 A . Yes. 2 0 Q What peri o d of time were t hey u s ing 2 1 the a s b e s t o s fibers'? 2 2 A . I c a n ' t r e c a 1 1. 2 3 Q A r e t h e y s ti 11 us 1 n g t h e a s b e s t o s 2 4 f i b e r a i.n t h e P r e s t o n o a t th i s 1 3.m e , to y o u t 2 5 knowledge? W O R L D W I D E C 0 U KT RE P 0 RT ER E , IN C u a n c -nn m n n n r i]- n m r 3 2 A . M o 1, t o m y 2 0. - iLie 1. 'Ss t.cl.11.J;iio w a b o u t t.h c p 1 a s t i c s , i f 3 we c o u 1.d . 7 o u h a d m e n I;i on ed ea r 1 i or po 1 y e s t er 4 i'o s i n s in d I '1.1 a d itii t t o y o u t h a t. X a m f. a ini 1 i a r w i t h the E a c t t h a t CJnion C a r b i d e was i n v o l v e d 6 e x t e n a i v e J y v .11 h t h a t , b u t I d o n ' t k n o w a l l o C t h e 7 particular products that they were making using 8 t h 5.s p a r t i c u l a r c o m p o u n d a n d t h a t ' s w h a t I n e e d to 9 ask you about. So, if you c o u l d simply tell me 1. . 0 w h i c h p r o d u c t s y o u ' r e m o s t f a m i l i a r wit h in r e g a r d 1 1 to the c o m p o u n d s c o n t a i n i n g a s b e s t o s that Un ion 1 2 Carbide was using and manufacturing? 1 3 & . i 1ni n o t a w a r e t h a t t h e y e v e r u s e d or 1 4 they ever produced polyester' resin. 1 5 q , You're not familiar- with t ha t? 1 6 ft, i d o n 't b e 1 iev e Un i on C a r b i d e has e v e r 1 7 produced polyester resin . 1 8 q. How did they use the asbestos fibers 1 9 in t h e p r o d u c t i o n o 1: t h e 1.r p l a s t i c s m a i.e i .1a 1 s ? 2 0 Ii . H o w did t he y use it? It was 2 1 j.n w i t.h t h e r e s i n . 2 2 Q - W h a t. t y p e of r c;s :in ? 2 3 A . T h e o n e I 'm m o s t fa m . l i a r w 5. ">lA phenol, i c. r e s i n . 2 5 q. And what would the p h e n o l i c resin be WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, INC n A n r 'm nxi 3 3 .1 for , sir? 2 A . V a :r;i.o u s :in d u s t r :i.a 1 a p p .1i c a t i o n s . 3 Q L e t 's g o a h e a d )d t a 1 k a b o u t t h e m . 4 A . W e 1 1 , I c a n 't --- I ''m n o t -- y o u n e e d b s o m e b o d y L:r o m 1:h it d i v i s i o n . 6 q . Well, sir, we don't have anybody else 7 f r o m t h e o t h e r d i v i s i o n s h e r e t o d a y a n d t h a 1:'s t h e 8 r e a s o n w e 'v e g o t to a s k you. 9 A. Coffeepot handles. I think some 1. 0 elec tr ical pa r t s like switch boxes. Products 1 1 where e l e c t r i c a l i n s u l a t i o n wa s i s the way 1 1 2 u n d e r s t a/n d it. 13 q. Well, they used that in r e gard to 1 4 electrical cable insulation, did they not? 1 5 A. I d o n 't k n o w . N o t to my k n o w l e d g e . 1 6 q. Did Union Carbide ever produce any .1 7 higli t e m p e r a t u r e r e f :ra e t o r y p r o d u c t s ? 1 8 A. I d o n 't know. 1 9 q. Who with Union Carbide would know 2 0 that, sir? 2 1 A. I don't know. I suppose somebody from 2 2 t h e g r a p h i t e . Is t h a t w h a t y o u ' r e r e E e n i n g to is 2 3 t h a t t y p e o f r e f r a c.t o r y , c a r b o n p r o d u c:t s ? 2 4 q. W e i 1, a c o m b i n a t i o n f r o m t h e c a r b o n 2 5 division, also. W O R L D W I D E COURT R EP ORTERS, INC. u nnn <r>nM t7 1'\V f0- n 0 1 S i 3 4 1 2 3 4 q 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 13 1 4 15 1 6 1 7 18 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 5 X w o uld think that would bo who you'd want to talk to, If they even have a carbon d i v 1 si on a n y mo r e . I d o n 't k n o w . q , t h e r e h a s b e e n a c h exn g e. .1n r e g a r d t o t:h e o r g a n x z a 1:i.o n o f t h e c o r p o r a.1 1 o n o v e r t h e y o u r j n r e g a r d t o t h e r e d u c t i o n in t h e n u nb e r of t h e d i v i s i o n s o r t h e g r o u p i n g s t h a t t h e c o r p o r a 1;i o n presently exists under? A . yes. q, Okay. If you co u l d , go a h e a d and tel 1 u s a b out the v a r i o u s g r o u p i n g s that you u nd e r st a n d U n i o n Ca.rbi.de is o r g a n i z e d u n d e r a t t h i s t i m e . A, I really couldn't tell you with any intelligenee. q. H o w l o n g d i d y o u w o r k w i t h them.'' A . T h i r t y- f:o ur y e a r s . p, And you don't know anything abou t that? A . Y o u s a id a t th i.s t i m e a n d I - - Q were W e l l , .let's go b a c k to t h e t i.m e t h a t w i t h th ein a t t h e e n d of J u n e l a s t y e a r , in '85. A , T h e r e w a s a U m e t c:o M i n e r a Is w h i c ii e n c o m p a s s ed p a r t o f t:h e ol d M e t a 1 s D i v i s i o n . T h e r e w a s -- w e l l , r e a l l y b e y o n d t h a t I a m not. W0 R L D W I D E c 0 U R T R E P O R T E R S , u m i a 'I'nm ! 7 1 3 i 2.8 0 -- 0 0 1 5 INC. 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 ?. 4 2 8 f:a m .i ii a r w i t ' w a s a Ha 1 1 o JD i.v 1 :>i o I) , I w i t h the: U m C: I d o n 't k n o v; a -- they ca w h e r e: t h e y w I ' hi :> u r o t lc v o C a r b u n J t h i n Ir w a s s c p a :ra l o , b u i. te r it w a s a d i v i s i o n . 'there w a s :i.o n 1 1 n (7 a n d s e 11 in g the. ta chno1ogy . q , Mr, M y e3,t s , l e t m e as ky o a *>a m ee h 1 n g r i g h t q u i c k w h i. .1e i t ' s o n - ~ p . A g P r o d u c t s D i v i s i.o n . Q. In r e g a r dto t le M e t a l s D i v i s i o n / di d t h a t a 1 so i n c l u d e t h e p r o c s s i.n y o f ina g n ces i a ? A . N o t to iny k n o w l e d g e . M a g n e s i.a ? Q Y e s , s i .r . A . NO t to m y k n o w J.e d g e Q was W h e n y o u 1 e f: t U n i o n C a i-b i d e i n ' the use of a s b e s t o s , a s far a s you r k n o w l e d g e / a s t.o a n y p r o c e s s f o r t.hie c o r p o x~a t i o n A I a m n o t r e a 1.1 y a m ;LI i a i' o r I 'm n o t a w a r e t h a t t h e y w e r e u s i n g i t i.n a n y p r o d u c t s o t h e r t h a n p cer h a p s a c e t y .1.e u e c:y 1 i ride i's , w lii c h i s o n e I f a i 1 e d t o m e n t i.o n e a r 1 x e r . Q I t:o r g o t a b o u t i t m y s eli:. A . 1 'in n o t s u r e i f. t h e y 'r e s t i 11 us i n g i i- W O R L D W I D R C O U R T H U 1?0 R T E R S , IN C n /\fit*m r\ m /7 n \ o n n -- n n i R 3 6 1 1;h e r o . 2 p. T h e t o wan D O t h C;:I' i t O li t o O i D I C". d a d t;o l:h e s a 1 e o [: t h e f i b e r s . I)o y o u ,r<2 c a 11 H n i o n C a r b i d e y e l l i n g any of t h e i r fib e r s to any of the t o b a c c o c o m p a n i e s ' 6 A . No. Are you familiar with th e fact that 7 Q B the t o b a c c o i n d u s t r y was u s i n g as b e n t o s in t h e i r 9 cigarettes? 1 0 A . No . MR. S T A M M : In t h e i r c.i g a r e t t e s 1 .1. 1 2 or their -filters ? MR. MA D E K SH O : Both. 1 3 q _ (By Mr, M ade ksho) U n i on Car b id e also 1 4 1 had a C a n a d i a n D i vi si on or at least what was 1 6 called Union Carbide Can ad a L im ited ? 1 7 A . Yes. 1 8 q . A n d w h a t is the e x t e n t of y o u r 1 9 k n o w l e d g e c o n c e r n i n g the m i n i n g o p e r a t i o n s in 2 0 C a n a d a , si r ? 21 A. E s s e n t i a 1 ly 2 2 Q. H 0 w w 0 aid y 0 i 2 3 w h a t t h e 0 t.h 0:r p a r t a of l 2 4 W h e n I s a y p a r ts , I 'm t a pi 25 divi s i 0 n s a s 1 ar a 3 the bout the other WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, INC /V fct 3 7 1 A . n y i'o a <11 n g n e w 1 o t t e i'a , 1 15u p p o s o , s t o e k h o 1 d v. :rs r o p o r t s , a n n u a .1 r a p o r t r, . 3 q . D i d U n i o n C a r b i d e liavc a n y p a r t i c u l a r 4 n e w s .1e 1 1 o r s t h a 1 w o u 1 d b e c i r c u 1 a t e d b e t w e c. n t h c:1 r 5 p a r t i c u l a r divis.ioms on a r e g u l a r basis? f. A . N o t t h a t. I i'cc a l l . 7 q , w h a t t y p e of i n f o r m a t i o n d i tl y o u A .L e t ine m o d i f y t h a t a l i t t l e b i t . We 9 r e c e i v e d n e w s l e t t e r s like from the Benefit: Plans 1 0 Gx-oup t e l l i n g ua a b o u t b e n e f i t p l a n s . 1 1 q. Ok a y , I 'm not i n t e r e s t e d in that, 1 2 s ir . 13 D i d t.h e Mi n i.n g a n d M e.t a l s D i v i s i o n 1 4 from time to time have any type of e d u c a t i o n a l 1 5 g a t h e r i n g s as far as d i s c u s s i n g the o p e r a t i o n s of t 6 th a t p a r t i c u 1a r d i v i s i o n e i ther on a y ea r l y basis 3. 7 o r o n a s em :i- y e a r .1y or- onc. a a m o n t h , a ny t h .in g o t 1 8 that n a t u re ? 1 9 A. Yes. 20 q. And how often wo u 1d t h o s e m e etings be 2 1 held? 2 2 A. As I recall, they were e v e ry on c e a 2 3 q u a r t e r , so m e 1:h :i.n g 1 i k e 1:h a t . 2 4 q . A n d w h a t w o u l d b e t h e t o p i c:a o f conversation during these meetings? W 0 RLD WIDE C 0 U R T R E P 0 RTE R S , INC . HOIISTON ( 7 13 12 0 0- 0 0 15 3 0 t A . W o 11 , r. w;i :> n o I', a i: v e r y m a n y , b u I: 2 u s u a 1.1 v j L w o u .1d x n v o .1v c. p v o <1u c. 1 :io n .. w o .1.1 , 3 u s u a 11 y e v e r y s e s s j.o n o (: L h a :> I:a.x*t a d o ifC w i 1;h a 4 s a f. e t y I.o p .1c , s a f o i.y p .ro g r a m , r e v i e w i n g t h e 5 a c c i d e n 1: e x p e x;1 o n c o , t h e i n j u r y e x p e r i e n c e . A n d 6 t hen d e a crip tions o each g r o up , each o p er a tion 7 within the division would discuss their 8 production. T h e r e would be a sales r e p o r t , a 9 .repo s: t f r o m t h e r e s e a r c h o r t h e t.e c h n o l o g y 3. 0 d e p a r t m e n t . T h a t 's a bo u t i t . 3. 1 Q. In r e g a r d to th e s a f e t y d i s c u s s i o n s , 1 2 d id t h e s u b j e c t of d u s t c o n t r:o 1 s or- d u s t h a z a r d s 1. 3 e v e X' c o m e u p ? 1 4 A . I 'in s u r e i t d i d , y e s . .1 5 Q. Do y o u r e c a l l as to w h e t h e r or not the 1 6 s u b j e c t of d u s t c.on t r o .1s o r dust, h a z a r d s w a s e v e r 1 7 a s u b j e c t of conversa t io n c once r ning t h e King City .1 f! M i rie ? 1 9 A . I 'in s u r e t h a t i t. h a d b e e n d i s c u s s e d a t 2 0 time , yes 2 1 Q Wa c< th a t. a n o p e n p i t m i n e t h a t y o u h a d 2 2 i n K .in g C i t y , s i r ? 2 3 A . 1 1 X s a n o p e n p i -il ini n e , y e s . 2 4 q. And how do you go about mining an open 2 5 pit mine in rega r d to the a sb e stos ore? W O R L 15W I D E C 0 U R T R E P 0 R ! E R S , I N C n n n q t o n r? r u 2 fin - n n 1 9 3 y ]. A . th 1 n g i;1p p e v s a n d bui 1 d o z e r s a n d 2 w h a t. 's c al. leni s c r a j id" w a g o n s . 11 's s e o o p e d u p 3 t h a t 'S U b o u.t i t., a n d J o a d c d j.n t o 1:j.-u c k s . n. Q A n d at1. t h e t i m o t h a t y o u w e r e w i t h 5 K i n g C i i:.y M i le , d i cj. U n i o i C'a r b i d o e v e r r e q u i v e 6 u s e O i. 1c: a p i r a t o r a a s f car a s t h e o p e n inin e 7 o p e r a t i o n s , the open p it m i n e s ? 8 A , No, they're not required. 9 q , i w o u l d a s s u m e f r o m t ha t i:ha t U n i on 1 0 C a r b i d e di d not v i e w t hat as a d a n g e r o u s or 1 1 h a z a r d o u s p r o c e d u r e a s a r a s t.he o p e n p i t m 1.n i n g ? 1 2 A. . 11. c o u l d h a v e b e e n , except, f o r t h e 1 3 d u s t c o n t r o l measures, w h i c h w e r e e v i d e n t in air .1 <1 m o n i t o r i n g r e p o r t s that the d u s t l e v e l s w e r e so 1 5 low that a r e s p 1rator was not required. 1 6 R e s p i r a t o r s w e r c m a d e a v a i 1 a b 1 e a n d ina n y e inp .1o y e e ^ 1 7 w e a r t h e m , b u 1: i t 's n o t. a r e s p i r a t o r - r e q u i r e d 1 8 area . .1. 9 Q . H o w d i d t.h e c o m p a n y g o a b o u t 2 0 nio n i t o r i n g t h e d u s t 1 e v e 1 s th e r e a t t h e K i ng Ci ty 2 1 M ine ? 2 2 A, i think in the b e g i n n i n g they used the 2 3 i m p i n g e r m e t h o d a n d t h e n c o n v e r t e d to t h e m e inb r a n e 2 4 f i .11 e r . 28 q _ d o you know why they converted from W 0 R L D W I D E C 0 CJR T R E P O R T E R S , I NC. n a n n ni A M /n i -3 \ o a n - n n l ^ 4 0 ]. i:hn L m p i n q n r to the; m e m b r a n e ? 2 A , I t h ;i n k b e c a u s o e v c r y b o d y e 1 s e ci :i d . -5 I t w a 3 a. r o c o m m e n d o d c h a n g o . 4 0 . w h a t. w a s y o u r u n d e r r>t a rid 5.n g i n r e g a r d 5 to t h i m p i n g c r m e t h o d oil m e a s u r i n g d u s t sa.inp.les? 6 h. I c a n ' t -- 1 'm n o t g ua 1 i f l e d to 7 c o m m e n t on it. I d o n 't k n o w a.n y t h .i71 g a bo u l. it. 8 q. And what was your position there a t 9 the King City Asbestos Mine? 1 0 A. In what period? 1 1 Q . 1966-1967 . 1 2 A. . 19 6 7 ? 13 Q Y e s , sir. 1 4 A . I was Technical Superintendent. 1 5 Q And as a T e c h n i c a l S u p e r i n t e n d e n t , 1 fi what we re your duties? 1 7 A . T o -- p r i m a r i 1 y t o s t a r t u p a n e w pa x' 18 of the plant and also I had the quality control 1 9 l a b o r a t o r y was under my sup ervision. 2 0 q .T h e r e w e r e so m e pretty good e xp an sio n 2 1 p r o g r a m s g o i n g on a r o u n d *6 7 - ' 6 0w i t h t h e K i ng 2 2 M ine , were there not? 2 3 A . No . W e a dd ed t h i. 2 4 y s t e m , b u t i.t w a s n o t a 2 5 Q W h a t w a s th e i n c r WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, INC r.r a n c m a m -5 .1 I h o a:; bo :: to f i b e r s d u r i n g t h e p e r i o d ot t i m o t h a t y o u w e X'c i n v o .1v e d w 5.t h t h es K i n g C.i 1.y A i>o c i>to .> M ine ? A , 1 1 r o ally va r i ed b e t w e e n 2 5 and 3 0 t:.h o u :>a n d t o n s . I d i d n 't i n c .1.u d e t h e 1 a s t o u r 6 y e a .i"a w ie r e w c 're d o w n n o w t o tib o u t 1 5 Lh o u ;>a n d 7 tons per y e ar, a t t he tim e whe n I 1e 1 t . 8 q. And that was in 1 98 5 ? 9 A Ye; 1 0 q , H a v e y o u h e a r d as t o w h e t h e r o r not. 1 1 U vii o n C a r b i d e ' s a.s b e s t o s m i n e a.t K i n g C i t y h a s 1 2 c h a n g e d in t h e i r p r o d u c t i o n s i n c e 19 8 5 ? H a s i t 1 3 increased or decreased? 1 4 A . Maybe I sh o u 1d clarify that. K CAC now 1 5 o p e r a t e s t h a t tni n e a n d ini 11 . 1 6 Q I see 1 7 A . J.'m 3 o r r y . 1 8 p _ x see . W h e n d i d K C A C t a k e o v e r that. 1 9 mm e 2 0 A . J u l y 1s t of 19 8 5 . I 'm s o r r y . I 2 1 thought you gathered that. 2 2 g . i 1m a 1 i.1.1.1.e b 1.1. s l o w , M r . M y e rs, a n d 2 3 y o u ' e g o i.n g t o h a v e t o t a k e t h a I: i n to 7 4 c.ons i d e t a t i o n . 2 5 A . i t h o u g h t t h a t c a m e f:r o m t.h e o r i g i n a 1 WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, INC 11 n im t n N (7 1.3 )2 8 0 - 0 0 .15 4 2 .1. e x p .1.a n a 1: 1 o n 2 I f y o u 'r e a a k i n g a b o u t t h c c u r x 3 c t i o n , i t is a b o u t 10 th o u s a n d t o n s . 4 Q - At t h i s t i m e:? 5 A . fJh h u h . 6 Q W h y d i d U n 1.o n C a r b x d e s e 11 i t s 7 a s b e s t o s mi n e In 1 985 ? 0 A . I think mainly due to c o r p o r a t e 9 r e s t r u c t u r i n g of the type of p r o d u c t s they were 1 0 i n v o l v e d with. The e nt ire M e t a l s Divi s ion line 6 f 1 1 products was up for sale. There was s o m e o n e who 1 2 p u r c h a s e d the asbes t o s part of that. .1. 3 Q. This KC ~~ y o u ' r e g o i n g to h a v e to 1 4 give me those letters again. 1 5 A. K C A C . T h a t 's n o t a r a d i o s t a t i o n . 1 6 Q . K C AC. . A n d w h a t d o e s t h e K C A C s t a n d 1 7 for? 1 0 A. That's just the way it's 1 9 incorporated. 2 0 Q. How long has this KCAC Corporation 2 1 been in existence? 2 2 A . Since 1 905. 2 3 Q . An d h o w d i d i t c o m e in to ex i s t e n c e ? 2 4 A . To operate the asbestos buainess 2 5 purchased from Union Carbide. WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS h o n c t n w (7 1 3 io o n - n n i s INC . ]. 2 3 4 h 6 7 0 9 1 0 I .1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 J. 7 1 0 1. 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 5 4 3 O. A n d w h o wa;; i n :>i;r u m e n 1:a .1 in f o r m i n g K (.' A C ? Wa s :i1 U ri :i.o n C a r b ;i. d c :, I a r, s u in o ? 2. Ho, t h (': b u s ;i n e r> r, . i t w a r 1;h o i. n v e s t o r s w h o p u x-c h as o d Q - A n d w h o w o:ro t h o r, a i n v e ?;t o rs ? M R . S T A M M : I d o n ' t; t h i n k t h a t 's r e 1 e v a n t t o a n y x.n q u j.r y i n t'n i s 1 a w s u it an d - - MR. BALLARD: Put it this way, do t h e y h a v e a n y r e 1 a t.:i.o n s h i.p to U n i o n C a r b i d e ? TH E W I N ESG : No. Q- (By Mr. M a d e k s h o ) Do they have any r e l a t i o n s h i p to the G A F C o r p o r a t i o n ? A . No. Q W h e n d i d y o u b e c o ine f a ini 1 i a r w i t h G A F 's i n t e r e s t .1n a c q u i r i n g U n i o n C a r b i d (2 ? tha t q u e st ion? MR. S T A M M : D o y o u u n d e r s t.a n d T M E WI T N H G S : No, I do n 't . Q - (By M r . M a d.e k s ixo ) A s f a r as t h e b u y - o u t. a n d p u r c h a s e o f Un io n C a i'b i d e 1s f a c i i ,i t :i.e s , fit c e t e r a . A . W i;r e t:h e y t h e o n e s t iia t j u s t r e c e n t .1 t:r 1 e d t o .. MR . GT AMM : Ju st an n wcr to thc b e s t ol; your- k n o w .1.e d g e , i f y o u h a v e a n y k n o w l e d g e . W O R L D W I D E C 0 U R T R E P O R T F,R S , I N C . tj fit? a'n N7 / n i r> \ n ti n n r\ 1 ft 1 2 3 4 3 6 /7 8 9 ]. 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 5 4 4 A Ic o n .1dn ' 1; t e 1..1 y ouw h e n , w a s .in t h e n e w s p a p e r , 1 g u e s s . W !ie n o v e r 11 Q ( B y M r . M a d a k s h o } W h o w a s 1:h e i n d.,iv i d m i l in c h a r g e o f: t.h a K in g C :i.t y M i ne f. o r U n io n C a rb 1 d e b a e k i n j un e o 1: I 9 8 5 ? A . I w a s t he P r odile I'. a n d P r o d u c t i o n M a n a g e r i n J u n e of: 1 9 0 5 Q - I see. Did U n 1o n Carb ide make any p r o d u c t s on s i t e of t h e K i n g C i i:y M i n e ? A . 0 1he r t ha n a s h e s to s f i b e r a ? Q Yes, si r . A . No . Q T h e y d i d n 't h a v e a m a n u f a c t u r i n g facility there other than the mine or the mill? A. No, no. Q- Does KCAC own i n t e r e s t in any other a a b e s t os m i n e s a t t h ,is t.i m e ? A . No . Q Mr. M v e r s , th ere was a no t her i t em of i n q u i r y t h a t w a s J.i s t e d c o n c e r n .1n g t h i s d e p o s i t i o n a n d t h a t w a s t h e m e in b e r s h i p in t h e A IA / N A . A n d w e would like to ask you when Union C a r b i d e b e cam e a ine m b e r o f A IA / N A ? A . In .19 7 2 . Q D o y o u k n o w wh y U n i o n C a r b i d e ;jo i n o d WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, r.3 /''t n n r \ m /-7 1 -j \ o a r\ n n i t- INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 ]. 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 24 25 4 5 AA ? A . Do. Q !*o y o u k ) o w w h o 1. h e .r o r n o 1. U n 5 o n C a r b i i i e w a 5 s t i 1..1 a m e mb or of: A TA w h e n y o u left'. U n i o n C a r b i d e in Juno of 5985? A . Y e s , Oh, w h en I 1e f t ? Y :s , s i r . A . T ile y v i e r e m e m b e r s u n t i 1 J u n e 3 0 th. Q Of 19 8 5 ? A . Yes . Q W fia t .is y o u r u n d e r s t a n d i n g as to t h e p u r x)o s e o f t h e A I A ? A . P r i m a r i l y to d i s s e jn.inate i n f o r m a t i o n c o n c e r n i n g the h e a l t h a s p e c t s of a s b e s t o s and the work practices which w o u 1d accorap]ish the safe use of a s b es 1:o s . Q W h o we r e t h e o t h e rm e m b e r n o f A IA d u r i n g t h i sp e r i o d of tiia e , f r o m 1 972. to 1 9 8 5 ? A> I c o u l d n 't a n s w e r . I 'm s u re t h e r e h a v e b ee n5 0 to 10 0 m e m b e r s . Q W e 1.1L, .1e t. m e j u s t a s Je y o u a b o u t p a r t i c a 1 a r o n e s . A .re y o u fa m i .1i a r w i t h l:fie f a c t t h a t G A P w a s a m e m b e r o i: A IA d u r-i n g t h e p e r i o d of -- A No, I d o n 't t h 1.n k I am f am i 1 i a r w i t h W O R L D W I D E C O U R T R E P ORTERS, INC. H o u s t o n f7 1 3 i2 a n - n n r; .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 3. 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 .1 7 3.8 19 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 9 4 6 i:h a t , A r <o t h e y .\ iiworn h e r n o w ? r d o n ' 1: k n o w Q . W e re y o u f: a m j1.1 i a r w :i.t h t h o' f a c t. R a.y b e s t:o s - M a n h a t ta n , n o w c a 1 1 ed R a y m a r lc, w a in e in b e r o f l\ .[ A ? A . ifcos x y e s . Q. Were you familiar with the fact that C elotex was a m em b er o A I A ? A . No . Q W e 11 , i t m i g h t b e e a s i e r if y o u 1'11 j u s t t e .1.J. m e t h e o n e s t h a t y o u a r e f a m i 1 j.a r w i t h t hat w e r e m e m b e r 3 Of A I A . A . .. O h , C a r e y C a n a d i a n , J o h n s - M a n v i l l e , C e r t a i n - T e e d , L a k e A s b e s t o s . SNA, w h i c h is the Quebec government asbestos companies. I can't r e m e m b e r what that stands for. S upradur. Monsey Products, Q. What about N ico1et? A. N i c o l e t . I think Ken tile was at one t ime. A m e r i c a n Biltrite. T h a t 's n o t v e r y g o o d , b u t t h a t 's a l l I can remember. Q -'ff t h a t. 's e x h a u s t e d y o u r r e c o l .1e c t i o n , t ha t 's i:i ne, M r . M y e r s , w o u l d y o u g i v e us t hie d e f i n i t i o n of A I A / N A f o r the re coz'd, p l e a s e , s i r ? W O R L D W I D E C 0 U R T R E P 0 R T E R S , INC. r j A r f r? >t>a m / 7 I ' M o ti n ... n n i c 1 2 ,'\) A c\ 6 7 8 9 1 0 .1 1 1 2 1 3 ] 4 1 5 1 6 1. 7 1 8 .1. 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 5 4 7 A , As b o t os I n f o r ina t i o n A s s o e i a 1:j.o n o f. N o r 1 h h m o r C ti . () . Do you k n o w w h e t h e r or not A.TA/NA wa .1f:I;i I i a t o d w .t h a n y o f:h o r s i m j.1 ,:ir o r g a n i y. a t .1o n s EuI op c ? A . W f1ci l d o y o u inc;a n a f f i 1 x a t e d w i t h ? Q . W a a t;h e r e 1 i k e a s i s 1;e r o r g a n i z a t i o n for ma nu fac t u r e r s and c o m p a n i e s in E u r o p e ? A . N o . T h e r e ;i. a n i n t e*r n a U o n a l a s s o c i a t i on Q . T h a - . ' 3 it. A . - - w h :i.ch j.s m a d e u p of a s s o c i a t i o n s . I t 's a n a s s o c i a t i.o n o f a s s o c i a t i o n s . Q A n d c o u .1d y o u p l e a s e g i v e u s t h e p r o p e r ti t 1 e f o ' t h a t i n t e r n a t .1o n a 1 o r g a n :i.z a t i o n ? A . A sb e st o s In t e r n a tio n al A s s o c i a t i o n . Q A n d w a s U n i o n Carl) i d e a l s o a m e m b e r o that or ga ni zation? A . T h a t i s a g r o u p of assoc ia tions . T h e r e a r e r>o 5. n d i v i d u a J. ine inb e x s . Q - G o , if y o u 'r e a m e m b e :r o f a s m a..11 e r o r g i t)i z a t i.o n , t h a t 5.s p a r t o f t h e w h o 1 e ? A . T h o a s s o c i a t i o n i s p a ri; o f; th e asaociation / yeS Q D .id y o u e v e r h a v e t fie . o p p o r t u n i ty t o W O R L D W I D E C O U R T R E P 0 RT E RS, INC. H O D S T O N ( 7 13)? fifi- n (\1 r ' 1 9 9 /> 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 3. 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 .1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 5 4 8 a t;f e n d a n y o f t ho A I A nie e t;I n q s ? A Ye s Q A n d wh i c h m e o t.i n g s d i d y o u a 1.1 e n d d u r i n g w h a t y e a r s , s i :i A . I n M a y o f 1 9 8 6. T 11a t 's a I 1 . Q W lao w a s t h e r e p r e s e n t a t i v o fr o m U n i o n Car b id e or did Union Carbide have a represon ta ti v e d e s i g n a t e d to a t t e n d the AIA meet i n g s ? A. Now, as I s a i d b e f o r e , t h a t 's an a s s o c i a t i o n o f a s s o c .1a t i o n s . T h e r e a r e no c o m p a n y members, Okay, I'm talking now not about the i n te rnat ionai . I'm talking ab o ut the Asbestos rif o r m a t i o n A s s o c i a t i o n of N o r t h A m e r i c a , I 'm sorry. A. aga in . Then I need to have the q u e s t i o n Q Who was, or, i f you know, the representative from Union Carbide that attended the A I A/N A m e e t in g s ? A . I h a v e a 1;t e n d e d s e v e r a 1 . M r . T h u r b e r , who w a s m y boss. Dr. R h o d e s . T h a t ' s a b o u t a 11 I ean reca11 . W e r e y o u a l l d e s i g n a t e d b y U n i.o n C a i-b id e t o b e r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s f o r t h e c o r p o r a t i o n W O R L D W I D E COURT R EP ORTERS, INC. Hnrnni'OM ( 7 i n \ o n n _ n n i c 4 .9 1 at thoso mootings? 2 A . .1 clo n 't t h i n k t h o c o r p o r a t i on 3 d e s i g n a t o d p o o p .1.e . I I: w a s p r .im a r i .1.y w h o w a s i n 4 c h a r g e o f t h e a s b e s t o a b u 3 :in e s s o r w h o h a d s o m e 5 m a n a g e m e n t p o s i t i o ni n t he a s b e s t o s b u s i n e s s . 6 Q. How w o u l d y o u a l l find out as to when 7 the m e e t i n g s were g o i n g to be held? 8 A. By letter. 9 Q, From whom? .1. O A. From the AIA/NA. 1 1 Q. Were you on th o i r ma i 1 ing list? 1 2 A. Y e s . Wei. 1, I a m on t h e i r m a i l i n g 1 3 list. I have been on their m a i l i n g list. 1 4 Q. And Dr. R h o d e s , tell us who Dr. R h o d e s 1 5 is . 1 6 A. H e i s a fo rm e r Union C a r b i d e 1 7 employee . 1 8 Q. H e w a s w i th Un i on C a r b i d e at the time .1 9 that you w e n t to work for them, was he not? 2 O A. I d o n ' t k n o w . I d o n 't t h i n k so. I 2 1 d o n ' t k n o w w h e n he w a s hi. r e d . H e w a s hi. r e d a f t e r 2 2 I was, I think. 2 3 Q. Wh a t was h i s p o si tion with Union 2 4 C a r b i d e ? W h a t d i d he do fox*U n i o n C a r b i d e ? 25 A . I can only speak for the per iod fx'O m W O R L D W I D E COURT R EP ORTERS, INC. n a ftq -i1a m n n \ 9 f i n - n n i R 5 0 p r o b a b .1 y J 9 7 0 o :r o a r J.y 1 9 7 0 's , ho 1)n c a m e a p a r t o 2 t h o a s b c a t. o r> m a r k c:t i n g g r o u p . 3 Q . N o w , I n r e g a r d to 1 1\ o m a r k e t i n g g r o u p 4 tha t wa s in volv ed w ath m a r k e t x n g U n :i.o n C u r b x d e'a 5 a s b g a 1:o p r <od u c t s , wh e r e w a s 1:h a t p a r t i c u J.a r 6 d i v .is .i a T) h e a d q u a r t c r e d ? 7 A . It was not a d i v i s i o n , b u t the 8 m a r k e t i n g g r o u p was l o c a t e d in Ni agra F a l l s . 9 Q. And what would be the f u n c t i o n of thi 1 0 p a r t i c u .1a r g r o u p ? 1 J A . To market a s b e s t o s p r o d u c t s and do 1 2 p r o d u c t and a p p l i c a t i o n s r e s e a r c h , in q u o t a t i o n 1 3 m a r k s .i 1 4 Q . A n d t h e r csse a r c h w o u l d b e done: w h e r e ? 15 A . In Niagra Falls. 1 6 Q A t o n e o f t h e t w o -- a 'I: N i a g r a F a 1 1 s 1 7 i t s e 1 1;? 1 8 A Yes 1 9 Q . W ha t type o f r searc h d i d th i s 2 0 particular- group do at Niagra Falls? 2 1 A . The looking at new products, new 2 2 a p p .1i c a t i o n s , qu a 1 i t.y c o n t r o 1 , a i r m o n .i.t.o :ri n g 2 3 T hat 's a b o u t i t . 2 4 Q . Ho w long h ad t h e y b e e n d o i n g t h is 25 p a r t i c u l a r t y p e of work at N i a g r a Falls ? W OR LD W I D E COURT R EP ORTERS, INC. HOUSTON (713 1 2 8 0 ~ D 015 5 1 11 A . I I: b e g a n i n 1.9 7 0. 2 I 'hi s (3r r y . Y o u m oa n t h e ina rit n 1 5 n g 3 group or the research? 4 Q . T h e r e s e a r c h , n x r: . I 'm s o r r y 5 A . I wa s 1 n v o .1.v q d o n .1y t a r t i n g 1.n 6 i s w n e n I 'm f a m 1 1 i a r w i t h t h a t t h e v e w a s 7 p r o d u c t a p p l i c a t i o n work b e i n g done at Niagra 8 Fall. 9 Q. And t h e n you b e c a m e the m a n a g e r of the 1 0 marketing group in 1971? 1 1 A . 1 7 0 , 1 9 7 0. 1 2 Q. 1970? And as the m a n a g e r of the 1 3 m a r k e t i n g group, what were your a c t i v i t i e s on a 1 4 day to day and w e e k to week, m o n t h to m o n t h b a s i s ? 1 5 A. P r i m a r i l y , as I said, t r y i n g to 1 6 i n c re a se sales, d e v e 1 op 1 i t er a t ur e and supervise 1 7 t h e woi-k of the; a p p .1i c a t i o n s , n e w p r o d u c t . s a n d n e w 1 8 a p p 1 ic ation s . 1 9 Q . As t.lie m a n a g e r of t h e m a r k e t i n g g r o u p , 2 0 w e r e y o u fa m i .1.i a r w i t h t h e v a r i o u s p l a n t l o c a t i o n s 2 1 w h e r e U n j.on C a r b i d e w a s u s i n g a r;b e s t:o s f i b e r i n 2 2 the!r products? 2 3 'A . N o t h :in g m o r e t h a n I ' v e a 1 r e a d y 2 4 a n s w e r e d e a r J.i e r . . 2 5 Q . W e l l , w h a t we r e. t.h e 1 o c a t i o n s of t h e WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, m nnct nn n r c ?r n- nn 1 u INC. 1 '> 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 3. 4 1 5 1 6 .1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 5 p ]a s !i 1-n t h a.t fjn j.o n C a r b i.d o w a s m a n u i:a e t u r i n g 1 h a I; 1:hr.y w c.r c: u !i n q t h e a s b o s t o <; u :i.t hi (3u r x n g t h e 1;h a t y o u w e i-e w j.t ii t h e m ? A . H o u n d D i'o o k , 13e;w J e. r a e y . Q A ny ot her s ? A . P e r h a p s Mar-i e 11 a , 0 h i o . Q A . w j.t h . Go ahead. T h a t 's t.h e o n 1 y o n e s I 'm f a ini 1 i a r Q . Y o u 'r e n o t f a ini 1 i a r w i t h t h e fact, t h a t the y w e r e m a k i n g t h e s e sa m e s u b s t a n c e s in Tex a s City, the plant here? A. I d i d n 1t k n o w t h e y w e r e . I d o n 't ~ - to iny k n o w l e d g e , t h e r e is n o a s b e s t o s -- no p .1a s t i c s p r o d u c t i o n in T e x a s C i t y t h a t i n v o l v e s a s b e s t.o s . Q. I 'm n o t ta 1 k i n g n e c e s s a r i l y a b o ut a t t h i s t:i m e o r t h e J.a s t t i m e t h a t y o u 1 e fc"t . A t a n y t i m e d u r i n g t h i s p e r i o d f r o m .19 7 0 f o r w a r d t i l l y o u le t Union C a rbi d e , not n e c e s s a r i l y at the exact tim e that you left Union Carbide. A. No. A s I s a y , l a m n o t a w a r e t h a t t h e y m a k e a n y a s h e s t o s - c o n t a i n i n g p r o d u c t s i.n T e x a s City. I have n e v e r bee n a w a r e of t ha t , i f that. 's a be t t e r w a y t o c o v e r t h e t i m e f r a m e . W O R L D W I D E C O UR T R EP ORTERS, INC. n n i cr 1. 0. What; about, a t 1-io a d ;ri i:t ? 2 h . N o I. t o m y )< n o w .1.e cl g c . 3 q . W h o w o u 1 d y o u r o n o .rt 1:o a a t h o m a n a g e r 4 o f t.h e m n r k e.t j n g g r o u p ? 5 A . D u r 3.iig 1:h e t e n y o a r s , 3.t w a s v a r :io u a 6 p e o p J e , J . W . R a w l i n g s , F . J . S h o r t.s 1 e e v e . 7 MR. STAMM: S h o r t s l e e v e ? 8 THE WITNESS: Yes. 9 MR. M c C L fJR E : W h a t d i d t h e F . J . 1 0 stand for? 1 1 T H E WI T N E S S : F r a n c.es s o m e t h i n g . 1 2 Irish tO'the core. 13 A . J . F . Collins, G . R . Adams, W . C . 1 4 Thurber. 1 5 q. (By Mr. M a d e k s h o ) Mr. T h u r b e r is t he 1 6 s a m e Mr. Th ur ber t ha t we m e n t i o n e d ear 1 i er t ha t 1 7 w a s a l s o a r e p r e s e n t a t i v e for- U n .3.o n C a r b i d e a t t h e I 8 A IA/NA meetings? 1 9 A . Yes. 2 0 I t h i n k t h a t is all. 2 1 Q B h a t w a s Mr. T h u r b e r ' s p o s .3.t i o n w ;i.t h 2 2 U n i o n C a r b .3.d o ? 2 3 A . A t w t:a t. t .i.m e ? W h e n 1 j: e p o r t o:d t o h ;i.in? 2 4 q . W e .1.1 , d ur .1n g 1 1ie p e r i o d o L; t i me t Ira t 2 5 y o u w e r e t h e m a n a g e*.r of t.h e n a r k e t.i n g g r o u p . W O R L D W I D E C O U R T R E P O RTERS, INC. n o n c i i ' A M / *7 1 \ O f) A H D 1 C 1 A , [ia w ;y s c a .1. ]. o d I? .r n d u c t G o n e r a .1. 2 M a n a g e. r/ As b c s i o u a n d T u n gst.o n , i t b i n ' M R . M A D E K 5 HO: L e t 's g o o i;f: t ho 4 r e c o r d f o r inni, a m i n u t e , if we c o u l d . 5 6 (D ;is c u s s i o n o f: f. t 5.e r e c o r d . ) 7 a q , (By Mr. M a d e k s h o ) M r . M y c r s , a .1s o , .if 9 you need to t a k e a break, g e t c o f f e e o r stret ch 1 0 y o u r l e g s o r w h a t e v e r , a y t h e w o r d a n d y o u 've got. i 1 it. Y o u 're in c o n t r o l here. 1 2 A . Al l .right., 1 3 p. Mr. M y e r s , did you ever b ecome 1 4 f a m i l i a r with a g e n t l e m a n by the name of John 1 5 Marsh from Raybestos-Manhattan? 1 6 A . Yes, I know John. 1 7 Q - W h e n d i d y o u f i r s t m e e t Mr-. M a r s h ? IB A . I c a n 't, r e c a 11 . 1. 9 Q Approximat e 1y ~- 2 0 A . P r o b a b 1 y la t.e s e v e n t i e s . 2 1 Q A n d who w a s Mr. M a r s h , to y o u r 2 2 knowledge? 2 3 A . H e w a s a n e m p t o y e e o f: 2 4 R a y b e s t o s --M a n h a t ta n p r o b a b 1 y in s o m e t h i n g i n v o 1 v e d 2 5 w iII t h e r i v i r o n m e n t , e n v i r o n ine n t a 1 c o n c e r n s . 1 in n o t WORLDWIDE COURT R E P0 RTERS, INC / '-r 1 ^ \ O n A n n i c 1 sure . 2 c - W h a t was the e x t e n t of y o u r m e e t i n g s 3 w i. t h Mr . Ma r a h ? *A.t I ' v c: n e v e r .....- y a u. in e a n o n a o n e - t o - o n e 5 1) a s 3. s ? 6 Q. W e .11, e i t.h e r a on e - 1 o - o n e o r s in a 1.1 7 g r o u p m o o t i n g s b e t w e e n fin i o n C a r b i d e a n d 8 R a y beri t o s ~ M a n h a 11 a ri o r g e n e r a l m e e t i n g s w i t h t h e 9 AIA/NA? 3. 0 A . 11 w o u l d on .1y be g e n e r a 1 ine e t i n g s w 1.1h .1 1 the AI A / N A 1 2 Q On h o w man y d i f f ererit o c c a s i o n s did 13 y o u h a v e t h e o p p o r t u n i 1;y to m e e t Mr. M a r s h ? 1 4 A . A t t h e s e ine e t i.n g s , p r o b a b J.y f i f t e e n o r 1 5 twenty. 1 6 Q O n f .i.f t e e n o r t w e n t y d.i f f e r en t 1 7 occasio n a h the m e e ting s? 1 f! A . A t ine e t i n g s , y e s . 1 9 Q W h a t would, be t h e t o t a J. n u m b e r of 2 0 m e e t i n g s that you p e r s o n a l l y at t e n ded w it h the 2 1 A IA/NA? 2 2 A . 0 h , p r o b a b 1 y t.h i r t y . 2 3 Q A n d J. t h i n k y o u i n d i c a t e d t h a t y o u h a d 2 4 e v e n h a d t h e o p p o r t.u n i t y to a t t e n d ina y b e o n e o r 25 two of the i n t e r n a t i o n a l o r g a n i z a t i o n ' s m e e t i n g s ? WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, INC unnc'nnM t7 1"i\o H n ...n n i 1 A . O n e i:ioe t l ng. 2 Q A n d w li:i.e h o n e w a s t h i.s ? 3 A . I n Ma y o f '86. 4 o D r . R h o d e s , w a s t h a t D r . 11a r r i s o n B . 5 R h od e s ? 6 A . Yes. 7 Q And was he a P h .D . t y p e doc t o r o r was 8 he a medical, doctor? 9 A . Ph .D . 1 0 A n d d o y o u k n o w i.n w h a t p a r t i c u 1 a r 1 1 f i e l d t h a t h e had r e c e i v e d h is d o c t o r a t e ? 12 A . I t hi n k c h e m i c a l e n g i n e e r i n g . 13 Q Mr. Myers, when did you f i rst be c o m e 1 4 f a m i l i a r w i t h d i s c u s s i o n s of t h e f o r m a t :ion of T h e 1 5 W e l l i n g t o n Group or the Asbestos Claims Facility? 1 6 A . I 've, n e v e r b e c o m e v e r y f a m i l i a r . 1 7 P r o b a b l y two years ago. 1 8 Q . A n d h o w di d y o u b e c o m e f a m i l i a r w i t h 1 3 this? 20 A . O n l y b y h e a r 1.n g a b o u t it f r o m U n i o n 2 1 Carbide attorneys. 2 2 Q. So, t.his w o u l d h a v e b e e n s o m e w h e r e 2 3 Sept e m b e r in 19 0 4 , sou e w h e r e i n t hat a r e a ? 2 4 A . I c o u l d n 't pin it d o w n to t h a t , b u t I 25 w o u l d say s o m e t i m e in '84 a b o u t . W O R L D W I D E C O UR T REP OR TE RS , INC. n n n n t n m ( 7 i ^ \ 9 ft n - n n i ft 1 t h " n l " C a r b i d e a*tLti-rcr:rj)q y o' ,0" a b Ut :it ! t0 t h - t - M R > STAMM; f r ivlJejeii j,m . ' 9 0 1 "g to fi' Mr . Madok;5h tb.t thi, "Er6 th A g o i t you? J u *t c n v e r s a ti o n . ( , . d i s c USSO(J b " vernation don't . want t n a o k n a w wha "iaL :,usL the g e n e r a l n i t , ' tU r* , 0 the Pttviieged.' Mli- S T A M M - o at - "- o b j e c t i o n . It, x " a i so g o i n g to i n t e r n ,, at thin time to an lo a V m e n t i o n s c o n n ' and o b Ject formation . of t t f the Obentos o c j,.a ; 1 m n p a r. 9 l n g to inni:r u r t , U<'t U 'e o-itnena no1. ln' the , . l t y ' 1 '" tJ'a t - - m e a n t t o t|># , . ' *" - calculated . evidence. fltven Ullder ,, ,, l j t l -- -- thin ' no r can it hp to Joid , ^asonably lfcad to d i s c o v e r y of a d dl"1Sf,i b j e `l u e s t i o n g a n d M R ` BAI'i' A R D ! WeI] x ti a ask the . 1 ^ et them cert i f , lt; olt w i t h again. Judge 9 Cih S->.buon and meet 10 and hassle b* , back down here M R * STAMM; . . 0 r c. 01 Francisco-. 5 0 1 0 . (O y M r . M a d a k s h o ) H a v o y o u si n a a 2 .1e a r n e d a a t o w h e n U n i o n C u r b .1d c w a n a p p r o eh o d b y 3 the Asbestos Claims Facility or The Wellington A group ? 5 A . No. 6 M R . S T A M M : Sa ine i n s t r u e t.i o n . 7 Q . (By Mr. M a d e k s h o ) Mr. M y e r s , a r e you 8 r e f u s i n g to a n s w e r t h e q u e s t i o n o n t h e a d v i c.e o i 9 y o u r a t t o r n e y Mr. Art St a m m ? 1 0 MR. ST A M M : He is. .1 1 A. Yes. 1 2 , MR. MADEKSHO: C e r t i f y that I 3 question, please. 1 4 Q . (By Mr. M a d e k s h o ) Mi'. M y e r s , I as s u m e l 5 that you are g o i n g to r e f u s e to a n s w e r an y and all 16 q u e s t i o n s d e a l i n g w i t h U n i o n C a r b i d e 's i n v o 1 v e m e n t 1 7 as to tim e and c i r c u m s t a n c e s in r e g a r d to thei r 1 8 involvement with The Wellington Group and the 19 Asbestos Claims facility? 2 0 A . Yes. 2 1 q . A n d y o u 'r e d o i n g t h a t on the 2 2 i n s t r u c t i o n o f y o u r a t t o r n e y M r . A r t S t a iniri, i s 2 3 that corre c t -- 2 4 A. Yes. 2 5 q. -- w h o is p r e s e n t h e r e a n d WO RLD WID E COURT REPORTERS, INC. u n i K T A W (1 17 12 H n - (1n 1 9 9 1 r n p r e s o n t in g t h c A s b c s I:o a C .1.a i in a l/a c i 1 i t y ? 2 A . yo s. M I? . M A D E K S Ii0 : W h y d o n 't w e t a k e 4 a s h o r t Ij r o k , j.f w o c o u 1 d . 5 M R . S T A M M : 1?i n (: W i t h in e . 6 7 (Bri ef r e c e s s taken.) 8 9 e. (By Mr. M a d e k s h o ) Mr. M y e r s , a r e you 1 0 i: a m i 1 i a r w i t h a g e n 1 1 e ma n by t h e n a m e of J . C . 1 1 Stephens en? 1 2 A . Yes. 1 3 Q . And who is Mr. S t e p h e n sen? 1 4 A . Who is he ? 1 5 Q Yes, sir. Or was he? 1 6 A . H e w a s P r e s i d e n t of: t h e M e t a 1 s 1 7 D 3.v i s i o n > 1 8 Q Okay , the Mining and Metals Division? 1 9 A . Yes. 2 0 Q A n d t h i s w a s dtir i n g t h e p e r i o d of t i m e 2 1 t h a t y o u w e r e 1:h e M a r k e t i n g M a n a g e r ? 2.2 A . yes . Not dur ing the whole time, I 2 3 d o n 't t ii1 iik , b u t -- 2 4 . q. And the Mini n g and M e tals D iv is io n , 2 5 i t 's m y u n d e r a tand i ng t h at it was w o r l d w i d e "'w o r l d w i d e C O U R T R E P O R T E R S , u r t i M : n > n M / 7 1 7 \ 9 R ft -- D H 1 9 INC. 6 0 e x p .1o r a 1: 1o n a n d m i n i n g ; i s t h a t c. o r r e c t ? A . Yc Q . A n d t h e y w e r e c o n e e r n e.d w I t h h .1g h p u.i' i t y a s b e s t o s ? A . W h o ? 6 Q . T h e M :in I n g a n d M e t a l s D :i.v i s i o n of 7 Union Carbide during this period of time. 8 A . They were concerned with the asbestos 9 o p e r a t i o n i n King City, yes. 1 0 q . Didn't. U n ion C a r b i d e also use and sell 1 1 a s b e s t o s fi b e r s for r u b b e r p r o d u c t s as well? 1 2 A.. Well, use or sell? 1 3 Q. Use and sell. 1 A. No, Union C a r b i d e d o e s n ' t m a n u f a c t u r e 1 5 any rubber p r o d u c t s . 1 6 0 . W h o d i d t h e y s e .11 t h e a s b e s t o s f i b e r s 1 7 to for the the production, m a n u f a c t u r i n g and sale 1 8 of r u b b e r p r o d u c t s ? 1 9 A. To my knowledge, t here was only on e 2 0 c o inp a n y a n d i t 's in 0 h i o . 2 1 q. W o u l d it be s o m e b o d y w e ' r e fa m i 1 ia r 22 w i t h t h e i r n a ine ? 2 3 A. 1 t h in k U . 8 .R u b b e r w a s t h e n a m e . 2 4 q, Are they the only r u b b e r c o m p a n y t h at y o u c a n recad. .1? WORLDWIDE' COURT REPORTERS, INC 61 1 A . Y os . 9 Q A r c . y o u f a ini 1 i a r w .1i h U n i o n C a r b i d o 's 3 nie r b e r s h i p w i t h t h e I n d u s t r i i ; ! u y g i e n e F o u n d a t i o n 4 A . N o t f i r s t h a n d . 1':co in s e e i n g 5 i.n 1:e r r o g a t o r y a n s w e r s o n 1 y , 1 k n o w t h a t t h e y w e r e 6 a member. 7 q . Y o u ine n t .1o n e d s e e i n g .in t e r r o g a t o r y 8 a n s w e r s , H ave you been i n v o l v e d with some of 9 U n i o n C a r b i d e 's l i t i g a t i o n o v e r the yea r s ? 1 0 A. Yes. 1 1 q. And this w o u 1 d be, I a s s u m e , in r e g a r d 1 2 to their .'asbestos l i t i g ation? 1 3 A. Yes. 1 4 Q. When did you first become involved 1 5 w i t h U n i o n C a r b i d e 's a s b e s t o s l i t i g a t i o n ? 1 6 A . I c a n 't r e m e m b e r an e x a c t date, b u t I 1 7 w o u l d as guiiie in t h e m i d to l a t e 1 9 7 0 's 1 8 Q W h a t w a s t h e n a t u r e o f t h e 1 i t i.g a t i o n 19 at that time, Mr. Myers? 2 0 ' A . W h a t do you mean by n a t u r e 7 2 1 Q Of th e litiga tion that you were 2 2 involved with concerning the asbestos. What type 2 3 of cl a ]m s w e r e b e .i.ag m a d o a g a i ns t U n i o n C a i b i d e 2 4 c o n c e r n 5.n g as b e s t o s ? 2 5 ]; d o n 't k n o w . W h a t e v e r c l a i m s w o u l d WORLDWIDE COURT R E P O R T E R S , v y-1 m A t,f / n 1 \ o n n --n n i vz INC. be a s s o e i a i; d w I h a c o m p a n y w h o is a s u p p l i e r of a s b e i .o r. , Q. b e t ' s s e e if; w e c a n g e t it p a r e d d o w n a 1 i 1 1 1 e. b .it . D o y o u r e c a 1 1. a n y p o r s o n a.1. i.n -ju r y c .1.a .iid a b e.i n g m a d o a g a i n t U jii o n C a r b i d o c o n c a :rn i n q 6 t;h e i r a s b e s t o s m a t e r i a 1 s ? 7 A W o u .1d t h i a b e y o u inc a n s o m e o n e t h a t 8 deve1oped a disease? 9 Q . Yes, s ir . 1 0 A . Yes. 1.. .1 Q And do you r e m e m b e r the style of the 1 2 case o r cases that you were involved with? 1 3 A . A g a i n , I d o n 't k n o w t h e t e r m p e r h a p s 1 4 sty1e . i 5 Q O k a y . In o t;h e r w o r d s , i t w o u l d b e a 1 6 s i t u a I;i.on o f J o h n J o n e.s v e r s u s U n i o n C a r b i d e . 1 7 A . Yes, a l o n g with -- 1 0 Q The nam e of th e ca s e . 1 9 A . Along with many other defendants, 2 0 ye s 2 ]. Q . A n d do y o u r e m e m b e r t h e s t y J. o so r t h e 2 2 n a m c-s of s o m e of t ho.ie c a s e s ? 2 3 A . W e .1J. , I,u n d y , C i r v e l .1.o . 24 Q - W h a t w a s t h a t ? 1 'm n o t fa m i1 i a r wi i;h t h a t s e c.o n d o n e . W O R L D W X I)E C 0 U R T R E P O R T E R S H O U S T O N r/ 1 3 1 2 Q Q - - n n i `I INC. 6 3 1 A . C 1.v v e 1 1 o . 2 0 . iio w d o y o u s p e 11 t h a t ? C E R V E L - 3 O ? 4 A . I ' m n o t. s u r a i f .11 's S o r C I R V E- 5 I, 0, I t h I n k . 6 o - I s e e . I a rn f a m i l i a r w i t h t h a t one . 7 A-. DeSard, Rice . I can't recall the 8 specific names. 9 Q . A n d w h e n w e r e t h e s e l a w s u i t s f i.1 e d 1 0 against Union Carbide, sir? 1 1 A. I don't know. 1 2 Q. Approximately? 1 3 A. I c o u l d only say in the -- to the b e s t 1 4 of my k n o w l e d g e , in the mid to la t e s e v e n t i e s and 1 5 early eighties. 16 Q. Do you know where these lawsuits were .1. 7 filed? 1 8 A . In vai-i o u s p a r t s of t h e c o u n t r y . 1 9 Q. You know I'm g o i n g to ask you where. 2 0 A. I can probably only answer for 2 1 those -- you mean for those names that I can 2 2 r e ine m b e r ? 2 3 Q . T h e s e s p e c i f i c. o n e s , y e s , s i r . 2 4 A. Rice was in S o u t h C a r o l i n a . Lun d y was 2 5 in Oregon. C i r v e l l o w a s i n H o u s t o n . What was W O R L D W I D E C O U R T R E P OR T E R S , INC. r\ i r* another name I DeWard . A . D e W a r d , L o s A n g e .1.es. T h e r e 's a B r aclley i n L o s A n g e 1 e s . T h a t 's a 11 t h e n a m e s I t h i n k I -- d i d I f i 11 in t h e 1 o c a t i o n s f:o r t h e names that I gave you? Q . Yes, sir, you did. Thank you. What was the e x t e n t of your i n v o l v e m e n t w i t h t h e s e l a w s u i t s o n b e h a l f oi. U n i o n Carbide?'' A. L e t me go b a c k fi r s t , t h e r e is one t h a t was, in A r k a n s a s . I c a n ' t r e m e m b e r the n a m e of the case, but it was Arkansas. And why I'm a d d i n g t h a t o n e , I r e m e m b e r I d i d t e s t i f y in that. case . Q - I was g o i n g to ask you that in just a minute. A . The others have been r e s p o n d i n g to i n t e r r o g a t o r y answer's or h e l p i n g to r e s p o n d , s ig n ing a f f i d a v i t s c o n c e r n in g d e 1 i v er y of products. Q Have you completed your answer, sir? A . Yes. And depositions. Q How many d e p o s i t i o n s have you given on beh a l f of U n i o n C a r b i d e , Mr. M y e r s ? W O R L D W I D E C O U R T REP O R T E R S , INC. f. 1 A . ?wo . 2 P. - A n d w h e n u c. r c. 1.h o e d e p o s i t i o n s g i v e n ? 3 A . 0 h , I 1: h i n k 1:h e f i r t o n e w a s 1 9 8 1 a n d 4 t h e so c a n d one was 1904. 5 Q W h e r e w e r o t h o s e d e p o s i.t i o n s g I v o n ? 6 h . T he fi r s t o n e w a 5; S 0 u t h C a r o l i n a . 7 Q I n t lie R i ce c a s e ? 8 A . Yes. S 0 And what was y 0 u r tes t im 0 n y cone 0 r n i n g 1 0 in the R ice case? 1 I A . W h a t w a s my t a s t i.m a n y ? 1 2 Q W h at d i d i t c 0 n c e r n ? In 0 t h e r w o r d s , 1 3 w h a t was y o u r t e s t i m o n y about: in t h a t d e p o s i t i o n 1. 4 in the Ri c e c a s e ? 1 5 A . Very muc h t h e s a m e .t y p e of q u e s t i 0 n s .1. 6 that y o u *r e a s k i n g , my b a c k g r o u n d a n d s u p p l y to 1 7 c vis t o m e .rs > ]. 8 Q W h ere was t h a t dopo sition taken in the 1 9 Rice case? 2 0 A . I ri C 0 .1.u m b i a , S o u t h C a r 0 1 i.n a . 2 1 Q Do y o u re c a .1.1 t h 0. p l a i n t i f f 's 1 a w y e r 2 2 in that, c a s e , s i r ? 2 3 A . No. 2 4 Q . H a v e y o u h a d an o p p o r t u n e t.y to r e v i e w 2 5 that d e p o s i t i o n prior to today? WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS INC . Ci f> A . Y o s 2 Q A n d w h e n d ;i d y o u r e v i e w t h a t 3 d e p o s t j.o n ? 4 A . Ya s t or day . 5 Q D 1 d s o m e b o d y a s k y o u 1:o r e v i e w t h a t ? 6 A . No . 7 Q Do you have a copy of that d e p o s i t i o n ? 8 A . Yes, I do have or my lawyer does, I 9 should say. 1 0 Q . Di d he p r o v i d e it. to y o u a n d a s k y o u I 1 to r e v i e w it? 1 2 A . No 13 Q D i d , y o u ask him for a copy of it? 1 4 A . No . 1 5 Q The other deposition that you had 1 6 g i v e n in 19 8 4, in what: c a s e w a s t h a t a s s o c i.a t e d 1 7 w i.t.h ? 1 8 A . DeWard. 1 9 Q D o y o u r e c a J.1 t h e p l a i n t i f f ' s c o u n s e l 2 0 in t h a t c a s e , s i.r ? 2 1 A . No, I d o n 't. 2 2 Q Did you a 1 s o h a v e a n o p p o r t un i ty to 2 3 review t hat de p a s i tion before today? 24 A . Yes, I did. 25 Q A n d c o u I d y o u g e t t h a t 1.n f o X'm a 1 1.o n W O R L D W I D E C O U R T R E P OR T E R S , INC. 6 7 1 b f:o i-' w <; .1o a v n h o r <5 t.o d a y a.iid p r o v i d e 1:h a t t o u s ? M R . f,T A M M : too '1 .1 t a k c: i t u n d e r 3 advisement . 4 M R . B A L L A R D : He has a copy he 5 i n d 1 c a i;e d . W h y d o n 't W G "Ju c? i.. 1 e a v e a c o u p 1 e 6 b 1 a riles f o r t h e n a m e a n d s t y .1e of t h e c a s e a n d w h e n 7 he signs 1t , he can fill tha t i n . 8 MR. STAMM: 1 f his counsel 9 a g r e e s , w e 'll do it. 1 0 q . (By Mr. M a d e k s h o ) I 'in a l s o m a k i n g a 1 1 r e q u e st, Mr. My e rs, t h a t y o u p r o v i d e us with the 1 2 names and address of the p l a i n t i f f ' s counsel 13 i n v o l v e d in the R i c e a n d D e W a r d c a se s . 1 4 MR. STAMM: Same response. 1 5 q, (By Mr. M a d e k s h o ) And c o u n s e l has 1 6 r e.s p o n d e d o n y o u r b e h a l f . 1 7 A. Yes. 1 8 q, You indicated that you had provided J. 9 1 i v e h 6 s t i ino n y in c o u r t on b 6 ha 1 L of. U n i o n C a r b .id g 20 b e f o r e ; is t h a t c o r r e c t ? 2 1 A . Yes. 2 2 o. On how man y occasions was t ha t ? 2 3 A . 0 ne . 2 4 Q W h a t c a se was t h at i n ? 2 5 A . I can 't r e m e m b e r t h e n a m e of the W O R L D W I D E C O UR T REPORTERS, INC. tnuic'i'ftM n I"u )n n ...n n i u I , 1 / : 24 25 6 8 P 1 'i i. n l,,j /; f.- 2 J i/ nu . k1h a t. A . Ei th ii r ? Q . A . e. r e g a r <J t o litigation Where t h i t ? 1" L i t t l e n 0ck ' A1 ka nsas . H W Jon5 have you . answor. " e U "5 ' te,, " i n v lvccl in for D n . SS and r nion Carbide c n ,, where par ' nt!ernl** Peis"al i,, j u r i M =iff.ung ` to * ** - answer b " C O " C K l 'n e d ? ld to l a ` . . . VBnt , ` E you ' <3.n d ear]!/ jt n o w a s eightiss. C a r b i da had a had ever made f .. tabor fro,, Cassiar A * anv ny "t e t h e r or not Unie ,, " P u r c h a s e s ^r ' E isbe`o3 Ca na d i a n ,,,in e ? ' r 'B n o t a w a r o of " ot fa"iliar with - th '' t e u t o n ' BUt Pu r c haao,_ ~ famiiiar ^ho in " Bith f. rjn i union c -a >-u o ` ' " Uld a ? a i 'h I ' m oat in :- " ' C . ' f r . o f iJIo i M t s ? 0 " " P r 0 a " a i " g a n d A . e. th4t " - i d 1 d o n 't k n o w . IS knou there '"a t a n y b o d y in ,,, . UB `for.ati,,,, 1 d o n ' t: k n 0 w _ corpora tio n w u .).d tht> ) " ' egaI d e p a r t m e n t .f n ni- k n o w th a t') i\ . P o. r h a p s . I d o n 't k n o w . Q . U a s C:d o n y o u r k n o w 1 e d g e a tid u n d e r s ta n d i ng , w h a t a r e a.s b e s 1;o s f i b e r s u s e d f. o r in paper products? . A . I t d e p e n d a o n w h 1 ch pa p e r y o u 'r e taIking about. Q. W e l l , l e t 's t a l k a b o u t all of the m. A . Okay. There are insulation papers w h e r e i n t h e a s b e s t o s is used for, X think, primarily for insulation, electrical and/or heat insulation. And th e application which we app 1ied asbestos, f o r a s h o r t p e r i o d of t i m e was to r e m o v e p i t c h a n d o t h e r i m p u r i t i e s f r o m t h e p a p e r pulp) during its {production. Those are the only ones t h a t I 'm f a m i l i a r w i t h . Q . U n i o n C a r b i d e a l s o had w hat is k n o w n as t h e A f r i car! M i d d l e E a s t D i v i s i o n ? A . I 'm f a m i l i a r w .it h a U n i o n C a r b i d e E>o u t h A f r i o a L i.m i t e d . I 'm n o t f a m i l i a r - w i t h t h e other one. q . y o u 're not. s u r e as to whether- or not t h a t p a.r t :1c u i a r c o m p a n y , t h e S o u t h A f r i c a L i m i t e d , would fall under the African Middle East Division, thou g h ? A . No, I 'm not. WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, INC . h mi q t o n !7 i ni p R n - n n 1 s 7 0 1 Q . H o w m a n y m i n e, s d o o s U n i o n C a r b i d o h a v o 2 in S o u t.h A f r ;i a ? 3 A . I d o n't know. 4 H ow many did they have at the t im e 5 t h a t y o u ..eft U n i o n C a r b i d e ? 6 A . I d o n 't kn o w . 7 Q . W o u l d it be more than one? 8 A . I d o n 't k n o w . I a s s u m e it w o u l d b e 9 m o r e than one, yes. 1 O Q What would the asbestos fiber b e used 1 1 f or in r e g a r d to v a r i o u s t y p e s of r u b b e r p r o d u c t s ? .1 2 A. , I'm not really very familiar with that 13 a p p l i c a t i o n . I a s s u m e it w o uld be for a 1 4 processing advantage and perhaps reinforcement. 1 5 Q W a s there anything unique about the 1 6 a s b e s t o s d o p o s i t a n d m i n e t h a t Uni. on C a r b i d e h a d 1 7 a t King City? 1 8 A . Yes .1 9 Q And what was u nique about it? 20 A . 11. w a s a l l s h o r t f i b e r a n d i t 's a 2 1 ma ss iv e d e p o sit 2 2 0. H o w 1 a r g e is that d e p o s i t ? 2 3 A . It 's g e n e r a 1 .1y d e s c r i b e d as s e v e r a 1 24 cub i c mi 1 e s . 25 Q W h e n we t a l k about, c u b i c miles, are we W O R L D W I D E C O U R T REPORTERS, INC. 7 1 ]. ta !!. 1 1'.<j .iboui; s q u a r e m i l e s o n t h e s u r f a c e g o i n g 2 d o w n i c o u p I c ini .1.o v, ? Is t h a t 'n o w y o u 'r e 3 d o s e x*i b i n g c u b :i.c m l i e s ? 4 A. Yes. 5 q . What. i s t he es tima t ed tonnage of t he 6 reserves of the asbestos ini ne at this t ime ? 7 A . We have n e ver e v a l u a t e d that. I would 8 s a y in e x c e s s of o n e h u n d r e d m i l l i o n tons. 9 q. A n d h o w m a n y y e a r s i.s t h a t m i n e 1 0 a n t i c i p a ted to be in p 1 ace? 1 1 A . As far as the reserves or -- 1 2 Q . . Yes, sir. 1 3 A. ~~ other reasons? 1 4 Q. The reserves. 1 5 A . Indefinitely. 1 6 . Calidria Asbestos, what was their 1 7 a s s o c i a t i o n with Union C a r b i d e ? W he r e did they 1 8 fit into the scheme of things? 1 9 A . C a l i d r i a .. 2 0 q . C a l i d r i a , I 'm s o r r y . 2 ]. A . A s b e s t o s is a t r a d e n a m e for the 2 2 Union Carbide and now KCAC asbestos products. 2 3 q . And during the seventies, how many 2 4 different asbestos products was Union Carbide 25 m a k i n g u n d e r t h e t r a d e n a m e C a 1 i.d r i a ? W O R L D W I D E C O U R T R E P O R T E R S , INC. nnncTftN ( 7 13 i 280 - 00 1 5 7 2 1. A . W e l l , y o u w o u 1 d h.iv o t o d o I:i n e a r) p r o d u c t . We s e .11 b a s ic a .1.1 y f o u r d i.f f c:r e n t 3 v e r s i o n s o f: t h e s h o r 1: f i.b r a s b e. s t o s . A g a 3.n , y o u 4 c a n n o t r e .1a i.e a g r a d c t.o i. h e C a n a d i a n s v s t e m . 5 Q - C a .1i d r 3.a , d 3.d t h o y a 1 s o h a v e a n y 6 s y s t e ina t ic e x a m i n a t i o n o e inp .loyees to d e t e r m x n e 7 as to wh e t h e r or not they m ight have any health il e ffects from e x p o s u r e to a s b e s t o s ? 9 A . Yes. 1 0 q, A n d w h a t is y o u r k n o w l e d g e as to t he 1 1 e x t e n t of t h o s e e x a m i n a t i o n s ? As to w h e n - 1 2 A ,, The type of -- okay, what s p e c i f i c 1 3 q. As to when th e y b e g a n and a l s o the 1 4 e x t e n s i v e n e s s of each e x a m i n a t i o n . 1 5 A. T h e y b e g a n in 1963. A mi as far as i 6 e x t e n s i v e n e s s , you mean the t ype of t e sts that are 1 7 p e r f o r nte d ? 1 8 q . Y e s , s i r . L i k e just, x - r a y s o i s o m e 1 9 b r e a t h i n g tes t s or if th e y d i d any i n v a s i v e 2 0 p r o c e d u r e s from time to time on some of the 2 1 emp 1oy ees . 2 2 A . Okay, what 2 3 q , w h e n I s a y i n v a s i v e p r o c e d u r e s , I 'm 2 4 t a l k i n g a b o u t b i o p s i e s a n d t.h i n g s o f t h a t n a t u i e . 2 5 ^ No i n v a s i v e pr o c e d u r es . X - r a y s , c h e s t W O R L D W I D E C 0 U RT R EP 0 R T ER S uoncj'pnM f7 1 3 3 2 0 0 - 0 0 1 5 INC. 7 3 1 x - r a y a , p u .1m o n a r y f; n c 1 5.o n , p u t u m c y t o .1o g y , 2 o c c u 1 t b l o o d . A ild t.h c. n c o n v c:n t .1o n a 1 f.o r o t h e r 3 t e s t s to d e t e r m i n e a p e r s o n ' s p h y s i.c a l c o n d i t i o n , 4 s u c h as b l o o d w o r k , u r i n e t e s ts . 5 q . w h o n 1 s t lie f i r s t t i m e t:h a t U n i.o n 6 C a r b i d e h a d w o r k e r ' s c o m p e n s a t i o n c.3.a i.m s f i l g d 7 a g a i n s t the c o m p a n y a l l e g i n g either r e s p i r a t o r y or 0 health problems from e x p osure to asbestos? 9 A. In what locat i o n ? 1 0 Q . Any location, sir. 1 1 A. I don't know. . 12 Q. , L e t 's t a l k a b o u t t h e K i n g C i t y M i n e 13 then, that's 1 4 A . Never. 1 5 Q W e 3.1 , w h a t o t h e r l o c a t i o n s t h e n ? .16 A . I d o n 't k n o w o t h e r l o c a t i o n s . 1 k n o w 17 t h a t w e ' v e n e v e r h a d a n y in K i.n g C i t y . 1 8 Q A nd t h a t m i n e b e g a n in o p e r a t i o n w h e n ? 19 A. 1963. 2 0 Q. DO' y o u h a v e an u n d e r s t a n d i n g -- 2 1 A. Let me make sure I u n d e r s t o o d the last 2 2 q u e s t i o n . Y o u d i d s a y a s b e s t o s - r e 3.a t t.d? 23 q, R e s p i r a t ory or a sbe st o s - r e l a t e d 2 4 worker's compensation claims. I'm not talking 25 about a broken arm or a broken leg or a pulled W O R L D W I D E C O U R T REPORTERS, INC. (mncTOM n n p ; n o - n n 1 5 7 4 1 back . 2 A . We've n e ver had any a sb e s t o s - r e 1a ted 3 or r e s p i r a t o r y c o m p e n s a t i o n d a i m s . 4 Q. , W e r e t h e r e a n y c l a i m s t h a t y o u ' i e 5 f a m i l i a r with that at least made an a l l e g a t i o n of 6 an a s b e s t o s - r e l a t e d injury or problem? 7 A . At Kin g City? 8 Q . Or any other location against Union 9 Carbide? 1 0 A . I'm not f a m i l i a r with any. 1 1 Q Was Dr. R h o d e s the head of the 1 2 Cali dra/ A s b e s t o s D i v i s i o n or was that a div i s i o n 13 or was that just a trade name? 1 4 A . C a l i d r i a was not i n v o l v e d -- it was just an a s b e s t o s g r o u p was the way it was termed. 1 5 What did this asbestos group consist 1 6 Q 1 7 of? 18 A . Are you talking about the maiketing 19 group? Was Calidria Asbestos the marketing 2 0 ' Q 2 1 group? 2 2 A . Calidria was the trade name. Undei 2 3 Mr. Thur b er t h ere w o u l d be m a r k e t i n g and 24 production. Now, Calidria was the trade name for 25 Q W O R L D W I D E C O U RT REPORTERS, INC. / 7 5 1 I;h e b c s t o s p c o (1u c t 3 f r o m IJn .1o n C a r b i d e ? 2 A . 1'hie a s b e s t:o s 1`i b c r pi' o clu c t s , ye s , f r o m 3 K i ng C ity . 4 p. When did Onion Carbide or did Union 5 C a r b i d e s a v e r s t a r t p .lacing a w a r n i n g on a n y ol: the 6 s h i p m e n t s of a s b e s t o s fibers? 7 A . In 1968. 8 Q W h a t type of con t ainers w er e the 9 a s b e s t o s i:i b e r s s h i p p e d in ? ]. 0 A . M u .11 i --p 1 y p a p e r b a g s . 1 1 Q What w o u l d these bags have on them, 1 2 everything that you can recall? 1 3 A . The name of the product. 1 4 Q What would that ordinarily be? 1 5 A. C a l i d r i a Asbestos. It could read 1 6 S G --1 0 0 o r h i g h p u r i t y a s b e s t o s , a n y of. o u r v a r 1 o u s 1 7 n u m b e r t e r m i n o l o g i e s . The c o r p o r a t e name and at 1 8 one time it was the c o r p o r a t e h e a d q u a r t e r s 1 9 l o c a t i o n a n d it l a t e r b e c a m e the p l a n t l o c a t i o n 2 0 name. And the warning, the warning statement, 2 1 o . what were the sizes of these 2 2 con t a i n e r s , Mr. Myers, th e bag s ? 23 A , in di m e n s i o n or w ei g ht ? 24 q_ Yes, sir, let's talk about weight. 25 . . A. It w o u l d r a n g e from ten po u n d s to one WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS r.in r K ' n n M i 7 1 3 1 2 8 ( 1 - 0 0 1 5 INC. h i m d v a d p o iindH . q , A ii(1 w a n i t. a 1 w a y a it n P a p e r b a g s o r s o m e t I m e a i n s o m e c I o t h b a g s '? 4 j\ . A r e w e r ef e r r i n g to '6 B o r -- 5 q. Or before, as far as y o u r k n o w l e d g e , 6 even go i n g back to 1963. 7 A. Y o u m e an a f t e r '68 o r -- 8 q, Well, I a s s u m e in 1968 and forward it 9 was in p a p e r bags. Am I w r o n g in t h a t a s s u m p t i o n ? 1 0 A. We also have used p 1a s tic b a g s . 1 .1 Q. Well, p a p er bags -- 1 2 A. A n d ho p p e r -- if y o u 'r e t a l k i n g a b o u t 1 3 packages, if you want to c o n s i d e r that, a hopper 1 4 car was used as a s h i p p i n g p a c k a g e . 1 5 q. Now, a hopper car, are we talking 1 6 about a railroad car? 1 7 A. Yes. 1 8 q. Approximately how many tons could you 1 9 g e t in a r a i l r o a d c a r ? 2 0 A . A b o u t 90 tons. 2 1 q , And who would you ship the railroad 2 2 c a r s t o ? W h o w o u l d t ho s e cu s t oine r s b e ? 23 A . T o K e n t i 1 e F 1 o o r s a n d U v a .1d e . 2 4 Anybody e1se? 25 I think t h a t 's all we had. Perhaps WORLDWIDE COUR T R E P O R T E R S , I NC 1 o n e o r I. o t o A m c r 1 c iln B i .1. I;r i h o. . 2 I n r c:s p o n s e t o o n c p a r 1 o f y o u r 3 e a r 1 i o r q u e s t 1.o n , w e h a v e n o v e r u s e d c .1.o t;h b a g s . 4 p. W h e n d i d y o u s t a r t lining th e p l a s t i c 3 b ag s ? 6 A,, I c a n 't r e m e m b e r for s u r e . I w o u 1 d 7 say in t h e e a r l y to m i d s e v e n t i e s . 6 q. You had m e ntioned that there was some 9 type of w a r n i n g that y o u a i l began p lacing on these 1 0 bags. W h e r e did youail p l a c e the warning on the 1 i bags? 1 2 A. On the face of the bag. 1 3 Q, At the top or the b o t t o m or in the 1 4 m i d d .1e ? 1 5 A. Toward the lower part. .1 6 q . what were the d i m e n s i o n s of the 1 7 warn ing? 1 8 A , A p p r o x i m a t e l y t he w id th of the i ron t 1 9 pan e 1 . Probably t e n to twelve inches wide and six 20 t o e 5.g h t i n c h e s h i g h . 21 Q And what did t h i s warning say? 2 2 A . I c a n 't r e c.a 11 v e r b a t i m . S o m e t h i ng 23 .1.ik e " C a u t i on: C o n ta 1.n s a s b e s t o s fi.ber s . Do n o t 2 4 b r e a t h e d u s t . " B o m e t hii n g s i m i 1 a r to t h a t . 2 5 0 . W h a t e l s e ? Is t h a i: a 11? W O R L D W I D E C OURT REPORTERS, INC. u n r i c : r' n M / 7 1 "l \ 2 M0 - H H 1 S 7 8 1 A . T h a t;'s a 11 I c a n r e c a .1.J.. 2 Q.. S o , it. w a s 3 c a u t i o n , n o t a w a r n i n g ? 3 A , Yes. 4 Q T h e i-e 's a d i f f e r e . n e e i n r e g a rd t o t h e 5 1 a b e 1 a i.n r e g a r d t o a c a u t i o n , w a r n i n g or d a n g e r ; 6 is t h a t c o r r e c t ? 7 A . Yes . 8 Q The degree of s i g n i f i c a n c e ? 9 A . Uh-huh. 1 0 fi And y o u ' r e f a m i l i a r wi t h this in v i e w 1 1 o f. t h e c h e m i c a l m a n u f a c t u r e r s ' l a b e l i n g b o o k s ? 1 2 A . I 'm n o t f a m i l i a r w i t h it o t h e r t h a n 13 s e e i n g r e f e r e n c e s to it. I thi n k there are ANSI 1 4 standards which define those terms. 1 5 q, in r e g a r d to this c a u t i o n label, do 1 6 not breathe dust or what? 1 7 A. I d o n ' t -- I d i d n ' t cat c h that 1 8 question. 19 q, Hhat type of message was this supposed 2 O to send to somebody, that Union Carbide was 2 1 s u p p o s e d to be t r y i ng to send to someone? 2 2 A, One s i m i l a r to what you see in a 23 s e r v i c e s t a t i o n w h e r e it says "do not smoke" or in a h o t e l w h e r e it says "do not use the e l e v a t o r in 2 5 case of fire." A very s u c cinct warning. WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, INC m a n r*m n 7 9 1 Q . Weill, l! i a v oi a 1 i 1 1 .1o p r o b 1 e m w i t h t h e 2 a s s o c i a t i o n of t h o s e t w o ox- t h r e e e x a m p l e s as 3 b e i n g 1 cle n 1 1 c a .1 . H o w m u c h d u s t w a s 1 1 t h a t y o u 4 w e r e n 't s u p p o s e d t o b r e a t.h e ? 5 A , I d o n 't know. 6 Q. Well, you we re familiar with the dust 7 m o nitoring procedurtis at the mine, were you not, f sir? 9 A. Yes. 1 0 Q. How much dust does it take b e f o r e an 1 1 i n d i v i d u a l can even see it in r e g a r d to m i l l i o n 1 2 particles per cubic foot? 13 A. I d o n ' t k no w . I d o n 't k n o w w h a t the 1 4 v i s i b l e ~ - it would d epend on the lighting, I 1. 5 suppose. 1 6 Q . But you're familiar with the fact that 1 7 f i v e m i l l i o n p a r t i c l e s p e r c u b i c f o o t is n o t 18 visible to the naked eye? 1 9 MR. STAMM: Of what d u st? What 2 0 c o l o r dust.? W h a t s i z e d u s t ? 2 1 MR. M A D E K S H O : A s b e s t o s dust, 2 2 short i be r asbestos dus t . 2 3 MR. S T A M M : In w h a t c o n d 1.1 i o n s ? 2 4 MR. M A DR'K S H O : W e 'll t a .1k a b o u t 2 5 e v e r y one of them, if we n e e d to. WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS HO fisTOW (7 13 i2 8 fl- h fl15 INC . n o } M H . 5 T A H M : W e 1 1 , t h e n , a s !-: t h e 2 quea tion n thoso tern s . 3 Q . (R y M r . M a d d e n ho) L e t 's t a 1 k a b o u t; d t h c d e a d o f: n i g h t . F i v e ini 1 .1 i o n p a r t i c i e s p o r 5 e u b i c o o t o a s b o s t o s d u s t In t h o n ig h 11 i m (3, 6 c o u 1 d y o u s e e t h a t.? 7 MR . S T A M M : If y o u know. a A . I doubt it . 9 Q (By Mr. M a d e k s h o ) Let's t a 1 k a b o u t 1 0 f i v e m :il l i o n p a 3't i c l e s p e r c u b i c s h o r t f i b e r e d 11 a s b e s to s dust at s u n r i s e . 1 2 A . I don't know. You're asking a .1 3 q u e s t i o n o r which I have no t e c h n i c a l k n o w l e d g e 1 4 of h o w m u d ) d u s t y o u c a n s e e of a n y .. w h e t h e r I. 5 it's asbestos or silica or what. 16 Q . I 1in t a l k i n g a b o u t a s b e s t o s d u s t n o w . J. 7 A. I know you are, but I couldn't answer 1 8 for any product what the visible concentrations 1 9 are . 2 0 Q Was i t com mo n k n o w l e d g e to p e o p l e 2 1 w o r k i n g on t h e ;a .iJ.r o a d s t h a t w o u l d be h a n d ! i n g 2 2 th e s e b a g s t h a t. b r e a t h i n g a s b e s t o s d u s it c o u l d 2 3 c a u s e cancel' b a c k .in 19 6 8? 2 4 A . I ha ve no k n owl e d g e a s to that. 2 5 Q Did youall ever do a s urvey 1o ind WO RLD WI DE COURT REPORTERS, INC. HO U E T O N (7 13 )20 0 - 0 0 15 . H .1 1 o u 1; a b o u t 1 t:? 2 A. I d o n 't k n o w of a n y r a i l w a y worker.'.; 3 w 1;o w e r e h a n d l I ihj a s b o s t os ba gs . 4 q , w h a t w a s t lic n a m c o f t h e r a i i w a y t h a t. 5 was s h i pping out the hoppers of the asbestos 6 fibers? 7 A . Southern Pacific. 8 q. Did youall ever use any other railway 9 besides Southern Pacific? 1 0 A. As a p ick-up r a i l w a y ? 1 1 Q. Well, or just for the shipping of the 1 2 asbestos.fibers from the hoppers. 13 A, I'm sure to get from one part of the 1 4 country to the other there were d iferent lines. 1 5 The Southern Pacific doesn't run across country. 1 6 q . But Southern Pacific was the one 3. 7 y o u ' r e m o s t f a m i l i a r w i t h on t h e W e s t C.oa s t ? 1 8 A . W e 'r e on t h e i r l i n e s . 1 9 q , How were the s m a l l e r bags of the 2 0 asbe stos fibers t v a ns pox ted ? 2 1 A. By truck, container, boxcar. 2 2 q . And would these trucks or container s , would they b e l o n g to U n ion C a r b i d e or would an ( 23 i 2 4 o u t s i d e t r u c k i n g firm be u sed to haul these? 2 5 A. Yes. 1 W O R L D W I D E C OURT R E P 0 R T E R S , INC. L I Q Yee w h a 1I:? 11 w a s U n i o n C a r b 1 d e o r a n 2 i d e t r u c:k 1 n g i:i r m 3 A . i:t w a ;> a n 4 e. Wh a t w e r e 5 that w e r e i n v o l v e d w i t h the h a u l i n g of the 6 asbestos fibers, the bags? 7 A. Oh, I can't recall. Probably several 0 of the c o m m e r c i a l c a r r i e r s in C a l i f o r n i a . T h e r e 's 9 o tie c a l l e d L o u - J a c k . I c a n 't r e c a l l t r u c k n a m e s . 1 0 Q. A r e y o u f a m i 1 iar with the re s earch and 1 1 d e v e l o p m e n t f a c i l i t i e s of U n i o n C a r b i d e , as to ho w .1 2 .long t h a t U n i o n C a r b i d e h a s h a d s u c h f a c i l i t i e s ? 13 A . No . 1 4 Q . A r e y o u f a m i l i a r as to whether- ox- n o t .1 5 U n i o n C a r b i d e was a member' of the National Safe t y 1 6 Council? 1 7 A . N o t p e r s o n a 1.1 y f a m i l i a r . I c a n o n .1y 1 8 a ss ume that they wer e . 1 9 q , h a vc: y o u e v e r a n s w e r e d i n t e r r o g a t o r i e s 2 0 in r e g a r d to e n u m e r a t i n g the v a r i o u s h e a l t h and 2 1 s a f e t y and r e s e a r c h o r g a n i z a t i o n s to which Union 2 2 C a r b i d e had b e en a m e m be r i n various years? 2 3 A . I h a v e n 't a n s w e r e d t h o s e g u e s '1i o n s o n 2 4 interrogator ies . 25 q . H a v e you se e n them .answered on b e h a l f WORLDWIDE COURT R E P O R T E R S , I NC . 8 3 1 o f U n .1o n O a y b 1 d o , is i r ? 2 1\ . I c: a n ' i. r e e a .11 t h a t p a x-1 5 c u J a r 3 q u e s ! ;1 o i A Q . K! e w c: r o d i : c \! r: r: i i! q t it e I n d u s; t r i a 1 5 Hyg i en e Fo u nda ti on a wh i 1o a g o . D id y o u o v o r ha ve 6 a n o p p o r t u n i t y y o u r isc J.i. t o a 1.1 e n d a n y of t b e 7 m e e t i n g s o f I:h e I n d u s t r i a 1 H y g i o n e F o u n d a t i o n ? a A . No . 9 D .1d D r . R h o d e a a 11 e n d t h o a e o n b e h a 1 f C! J. 0 o f U n i o n C a r b j.d e ? 11 A . N o t t o my k n o w .1.e d g e . 1 2 Q D i d Mi`. T h u r b e r a t t e n d t h o s e on b e h a l f 1 3 of Union C a r b i d e ? 1 4 A . N o t t o my Icn o w l e d g e . 1 5 Q Did the Industrial Hygiene Foundation 1 6 e v e r p e r o r tn a n y t e s t is o r s e r v i c e s o r r e s e a r c h o n .1. 7 b e h a .1f o r: U n i o n C a r b i d e ? i a A . Not to my k n o w l e d g e , but I am not 1 9 f a m i ].i a r w i t h t h e I n d u s t r i a .1 1-3e a 1 1 h F o u n d a t :ion o r 2 0 m e m b e r s hi p . 2 1 q. Do you know the e xtent of anyr e s e a r c h 2 2 a n d s c i e n ti f i c s i:u d i e s t h a t w e r e d on e by t h e 2 3 S a r a n a c L ab o r a t o r i e s o n b e h a .1 f: o fU n j o n C ar b id e 2 4 c o n c e r n i n g any of theirp r o d u c t s ? 2 9 A. No. . B O R L D W I D E C 0 U R T R E 1?0 R T E R S , I N C . u n ri c n M H I 3 'i 7 R 0 - n n 1 9 8 4 .1 Q Have y ou seen s o m o o f th a t 2 d o c u ute n t a t i o n i n t h e p a s t w h e r e i t w a d o n o > 3 A . No. I h a V e n e v e r h e a r d <3: i>a r in a c. - 4 w ha t wa s it? 5 . S a r anac La b o ra t o x i e a . It's in N ow 6 York up t h e r e . 7 A . N e v e r h e a r d of it. 8 Q . Right there not far from Niagra 9 F a l l s . The Trudeau Institute? 1 O A . No . 1 1 Q Does the name the Joe 5 Mine sound 1 2 fami liar to you, sir? 13 A . Yes . 14 Q Tel l us a b o u t the Joe 5 Mine, if you 1 5 would. 1 6 A . T h a t 1's o u r a s h e s t o s m i ne n a m e u n d e r - 1 7 i t 's t h e name of t h e c 1 a im o r a t 1 e a s t one o C th e 1 8 c l a i m s u n d e r w h i c h we a r e m i n i.n g 1 9 Q T ha t Union Carbide was mining ? 2 O A . Yes. 2 1 Q . T h a t w a s o n e of t.h e c 1 a i m s ? H o w m a n y 2 2 o t h e 7.' c .1a i m s w e r e t h e y m i n i n g u n d e r ? 2 3 A . i don't, k n o w the total n u m b e r . 2 4 q. What would be your closest 2 5 approximation? W O R L D W I D E COURT REPORTERS, INC. or t f i r mAM 1 1 i i \ ) n n - n n \ ^ 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1. 0 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 5 8 5 A . P r o b a b 3.y b e t w a e n t e n a n d th I r t y . o,. A nd wh e r c >1.3 v;o vi1 d 1.1)es c. b o l o c a t e d ? A . I n C a. J. I f o r n i a . Q N o r t.h c r n C a .1 i l o t ti 1 a ? A . N o , C e n t r a J. C a .11 I:o r n i a . Q W e r e t h e r e s o ine in N o r t h e r n Ca1 i ornia, too? A . No. Again, you d e ane Northern California north -- e It's a m a t t e r of g e o g r a p h y . A . K h e r e w o u 1 d y o u c. a 1.1 n o r t h ? Q Wel l , I cal l a n y t h i n g n o r t h of Frisco -- A . No . Q Mr. Myers, when did you first b ec o m e fami], i a r w i 1;h t h e t e r m m e s o t h e 1 i o m a ? A . I c a n 't r e c a 1.1 . Was it i n the e a r l y to mid six t i e s ? Q A . No . Q L a 3:e s i x t j. e s ? A No . Q Early seven t ie s? A . p r o b a b .1y i n t h e s e v e n t i e s . I c a n ' t r e c a l .1 a y aa r . Q Mid seventies? W O R L D W T.D E C O U R T R E P 0 R T E R E , u n ric ; <i>OM (7 1 3 2 8 0 --0 0 1 5 INC. 0 6 W o r e y o u a I ;; o t: a m 1.1.1 a rw i t h t h e t a c t t.h a t t1 s c i n s u 1 a t n r a h ad t.h c h x g h o st :in c. :3 d c n e e of m e s o I;h e .1.i o m a ? A . W h r:n ? O . i n t hio m id s a v o n t i e. a w he n y o u f o u n d o u t a b o u t m e s o 1:h e 1 i o m a . A . I d i d n 't s a y I f o u n d o u t a b o u t it i n t h e m i d s e v e n t i e s . 11 vi a s i n t h e s e v e n t i e s . I d o n 't, k n o w w h a t p a r t of t h e s ev en t i e s . q. Okay- D r . Rhodes, when he would a 11 e n d these v arious i n t e r n a t i o n a 1 c o n f e r e n c e s , froni t i m e to t i m e h e w o u l d c o m e b a c k a n d c i i c u l a t e m e ino r a n d u m s t o .. A. Which conferences? q . `W e l l , t h e I n t e r n a t i o n a l C o n g r e s s on O c c u p a t i o na 1 He a 1th, that type of c o n f e r e n c e . A ,, i 1jn n o t f. a m 1.1 i.a i' w .it.hh i ma 11 e n d i n g a c onffi x" e n c e b y t h a t n a m e . p. W o u l d Dr. Rho d e s from time to time c i r c u l a t e m e m o r a n d u m s to o t her emplo y e e s under his supervision ? A . Y e s . q . An d h e w o u .1d c i r d i l a t e s vic h memorandums to you ? A . Yes. . w o n 1 . D W I D e c o u n t u e p o n i*e r s , i n c . H O U S T O N (7 13 ) 20 0 -0 0 15 0 7 .1 9 - A nd h o w o u .1d a.J.s o d i s c u s s t h o h e a 1 t h ? aspe; e t s u t a s b e s t o s e x p o s u i c in s o m e of those; 3 ip.e m o r o n a. iin s 4 ]\ k Va s . 5 o Wa a U n i o n C a r b i d e f: a ini .1i a r w i t h t h e 6 f a c t i n t h e in id 1 9 7 0 's t h a t p e o p 1 e w h o 1.1.v e i n 7 c i t.i e s o r a r o u n d s h i p y a r d s w h e r e a s b e s t o s f i b e r s 0 are h a n d l e d are su b j e c t to d e v e l o p i n g 9 rae a o t h e l i o m a ? 1 0 A. I don't know. 1 1 MR. STAMM: Just a minute. Are 1 2 you asking this witness whether he's familiar with 1 3 it. o r a r e y o u a s k i n g h i m t o s p e a k f o r U n .1o n 1 4 C a r b i d e 's c o r p o r a t i o n k n o w l e d g e , w h a t e v e r th a t is? 1 3 M R . M A D E K S H O : W e l l , I 'm g o i n g to 1 6 a s k Mr. M y e r s f: i r s t a s t o h i s o w n p e r s o n a 1 1 7 knowledg e . 1 8 A . W o u 1 d y o u r e p e a t. i t , p .lea a e ? 1 9 Q. (By Mr. M a d e k s h o ) W h e n d i d you f i r st 2 0 beco me a w a r e of the fact that p e o p l e who w e re 2 1 1 i v i n g i.n c i t ie s a n d a r o u n d s h i p y a r d s w h e r e 22 a s b o.s t o s f i b e r s w e r e b e 5.n g h a n d l e d a n d w e r e 2 3 r e 1eused in to t h e e n v iro nment we re d e v e l o p i n g 2 4 m e c o t h e .1i o m a ? 25 A. I 've n e v e r b e c o m e f a m i l i a r w i t h that. WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, MOUSTON 1 7 1 3 1 2 0 0 - 0 0 1 5 INC. 0 . D i rl y o u e v e r b o c o m e 1:a m :i.1 i.a r w i t h 1;h (5 f:a c i. t h a t p c o p .1c w h o w o r k c d a v o u n d 1 a r g e a s b e ;;t o r> p i.a n t :: o r m i n o s w h o d i d n o t a c i;u a 1.1.y w o r k 1 n 1:h.c p .1a n t s o r t h e m i n c s w o r e d e v c;.1o p i-n g m e s o t h e 1 i o ;na ? A . In th in cou ntry7 Yes, s ir . A . No . Q Would the re o n occas i o n s be coni; i d e n t i a l a e m o r a n d u m s c i r c u l a t e d b y D r . R b o d e s t.o a n p l o y e e s of. U n i on C a r b i d e s u c h as y o u r s e .1 ? A. N o t t h a t I r e c a l l . T h e r e c o u l d be if it was r e l a t e d to an e m p l o y e e or a s a l a r y d i s c u s s i o n or p e r f o r m a n c e discussion. Q Or perhap s a discussion o f exposure some of the p r o d u c t s of U n i o n C a r b i d e ? A . Not. t.o iny k n o w l e d g . e . N o t t h a t I r e c a 1.1. . G A r e y o u a ini 1 i.a r w 5.t h a n y d o c t.o r s f r o m C a n a d a by the name of M c D o n a l d ? A . By r e a d i n g his reports, by his r eputation, yes. q . A r e y o u t a .1k i n g a b o u t C o r b i 1 1 M c Don a Id? A . q. J . Corbitt, yes. What about Allison? WOKL D W ID K COUR T R E P 0 R T E R S , INC. H O U S T O N (7 13 )2 0 0-00 1 5 8 9 j 1 A . I 1:h i n k a h e c o ~ a u t h o r e d s o m e o : h i s 2 paper s . 3 Q W hen did you beco m e t a mil ia r w A t h the 4 works of the two Drs. McDonald? 5 A . P r o b a b l y in t h e e a r l y to in.1d 6 seventies. 7 Q - Did you ever attend any conferences 8 w h e r e they w e r e g i v i n g any l e c t u r e s or talks on 9 the hazards and d a n g e r s of a s b e s t o s e x p o s u r e ? 1 0 A . Not that I recall. 1 1 a . How did you become familiar with the ir 1 2 works then, s ir ? 1 3 A . As I said, by r eading their papers. 1 4 Q . Were t h e s e p a p e r s that you went to the 1 5 library to check out or were they some memoranda, 1 6 some i n f o r m a t i o n that was p r o v i d e d to you by Union 1 7 Car b id e? 18 A . I d o n ' t k n o w who it was p r o v i d e d I 1 9 d o n ' t r e m e m b e r who it was p r o v i d e d by. I w o u l d be 2 0 sent copies of such r e p o r t s . 21 Q Are y o u f a m i l i a r w i t h a Dr. S t e v e 2 2 Holmes? 2 3 A . No . 2 4 Q A r e you fa m i i ia r w i t h a D r . R i c h a r d 2 5 Doll ? W O R L D W I D E COURT REPORTERS, INC. u n n i TrtM C/ 1 T \ 2 0 0 - 0 0 1 5 9 0 1 A , Ye . d'). Q. . A n d h o w d i d y o u - - 3 A . A g a i n , t h e n a m e b y h e a i'i n g o t: h i m . '3 Q- A r o Y u f a il 1 i ci:i w 1 t hi a D r . I.e w i n s .ij: A . Yes . 6 Q A n d v;h o J. D r . L t'.w i n r> o h n ? 7 A . He , a s f a r as I k n o w , is in t h e 8 C o r p o r a l , e M e d i c a l D e p a i ' t ine n t o f U n i o n C a r b i d e . 9 Q. When did he come into the Corporati 1 0 Med i c a ] D e p a r t m e n t of Un i on C a r b i d e ? 1 1. . A . I d o n 't know. 1 2 Q / Was it some ti me in the s e v e n t i e s or -- 13 A . I r e a l l y d o n 't know. 1 A e - Well, just pin i t down to a decade. .1. 5 Was i t the s e v e n t i e s or the e ight i es ? 16 A . It was seven 11es or e i g h t i e s , yes. 1 7 Q A r e y o u f a m i 1 i a r w i t h so m e o f; t h e 1 8 s t u d i e s a nd the w o r k s d o n e by Dr. Lewiiiiiohn ? 1 9 . Not very familiar, n o . 2 0 Q. Did you become somewhat familiar with 2 1 s o m e of 1 i s w o r k w h i l e y o u w e r e w i t h U n i o n 2 2 C a X'b i d e , t h o u g h ? 2 3 A . Very limited. 2 4 Q D id y o u r e a d a ny of his m e m o r a n d u m s to 2 5 U nion Ca r b i d e or their e m p l o y e e s ? WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, A k1 / '7 1 ^ \ O fi r\ r\ i rr INC. 91 1 A. I t h i n k so, yes. 2 p. Do yon recall as to how frequently Dr. 3 Lew i.n s oh n w ould p ro v ido memorandums to ti'e -3 einp 1o y e e s o if Union Ca rb .ide ? A . No. 6 q. Would theyprovide, during the r e g u 1a r 7 course o if business, more memorandums to the 8 Calidria group than other portions of the 9 corporation? .1 0 A. I w o u l d n 't th ink so. 1 J. q. Were you familiar with any personnel 1 2 from the Johns-Manvillc Company? 13 A. Yes. 1 4 p, And who were youfamiliar with from 1 5 the Johns-Manville Company? 16 A . Jim Re is . 1 7 Q And wh o else? .1 8 . A Dihedro Putiatine . 1 9 MR. BAL L A R D : You have to spell 2 0 that. 2 1 A . T h e f i r s t o n e is K E I S . 2 2 0. . (By Mr. M a d e ksho) Do you k n o w if -- 2 3 go ahead. I'm so rr y . 2 4 A . Do you wan t m e to s p e l l it or try to? 2 5 MR. S T A M M : I t h i n k she. w o u l d . WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, 130 U S TON ( 7 1 3 ) 2 0 0 - 0 0 1 5 INC. 9.2 ]. A . P U T I A T I N E , t o 1 ho b e s t of: my O. kno w 1odg e 3 Q . (u y Mr. M a d e s ho ) A r e y o u f a ini .11.a r 4 w i h h a n y i n v o s t ine n t 3 t h a t U n i o n L a.x b i cig h a d i n 5 a a b c s t.o s ni n g s o w n e d b y n o ing b o d y o t h c x (.h <un U n i o n 6 Carbide? 7 A . No . 8 Q Are you familiar with any studies that 9 U n i o n C a r b i d e h a d d o n e c o n c e r n i n g t h e u s e of: 1 0 asbestos--containing materials? 1 1 A . No . 1 2 Q. A re you fa m i 1 ia r w i th -- 13 A . Walt a minute. Excuse me there. I'm 1 4 n o t v e r y f a m i l i a r , b u t I k n o w t h e r e w a s o n e --- 15 t h e r e we r e s o m e s t u d i e s d o n e in S o u t h C a r o l i n a 16 q. in w h a t l o c a t i o n was that i n South 1 7 C a r o J.i na, M:r . M y e r s ? 1 0 A . I d o n 't k n o w t h e n a m e of it. .1 9 Q Was that at one of the pi a n t s there? 20 ' A . Yes. It could have been West 2 1 V i r g i n i a . i t 's one of W e s t V i r g i n i a or S o u t h 22 Carolina, but I don't know which.- 2 3 q . w ha t was th e n ature o t th e se stud ie s 24 that were being conducted? 2 5 A . I have little knowledge other than WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, uonct nm m ? n n - n n 15 INC. 9 3 1 e v aa 1 u.a t;1 n g , an y o u n a y , n o m e a s b o a t o s ~ c o n t a i n i n g 2 ina t. e r i a .1 s 3 Q _ A n d w h a t t y p o o i: a s b e v, t o s - c o n t a i n i n g 4 m a t.e r i a.1 n w e r e o v a 1 u a. t e d ? A ^ 'i'o t.he b e n t of m y k n o w ! e d g e , i t w a s G i ns u 1a t ion pro d u e t s . 7 q , W a s 5.t a s b e s t o s - c o n t a i n i n g c e m e n t B i n s u l a t i o n m a t e r i a l s or pipe c o v e r i n g or blocks of 9 materials? 1 0 A . I d o n 't k n o w . q . Did Union Carbide ever become involved 1 1 1 2 with any studi.es as to the use of 1 3 asbestos-containing cloth materials? 1 4 A . Not to my k n o w l e d g e . p m W h e n di d C a l i d r i a A s b e s t o s f i r s t b e g i n 15 1 6 p u 1t i n g a n y t y p e of c a u t x o n .1a b el on b a g s of 1 7 a sb estos f i b e r s t h at were s e n t to the E a s t e r n 18 European countries? 19 A . t o my k n o w l e d g e , t h ere were no 2 0 s h i p m e n t s to the E a s t e r n E u r o p e a n c o u n t r i e s . We 2 1 did not s h i p d i r e c t . And if s o m e w e r e s h i p ped 2 2 t h e r e ):r o m a n o t h e r l o c a t i o n , I a m n o t a w a r e of 23 i t . T h e y w o u l d r e c e i v e the s a m e w a r n i n g s t h a t 24 we used the same bags Cor any c u s t o m e r or any 25 1o c a t i on WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, INC riss rfi- fr* f\ M i7 1 1 \? n n ~ n n i 9 4 1 Q - T h e C a l i i i r i a A s b e s t o s D i v i s i o n of: 2 1]n i o n C a x- b id c:, t h o y d :ici s h i p t.o o t h c r c o u n t r ie a , 3 i;ho u g h ? 4 A . x t 'a n o t. a d i v i s i o n , b u t , y e s , w e d 5.d !-3 s h i p to o t h e r c o u n t r i e s . 6 ') , w h ;ic hc o d n t r i c s d i d rJ n i o n C. a r b i d e s h i p 7 t:o , i:o t h e b e s t of: y o u r r e c o l l e c t i o n , Mr. M y e r s ? 8 A. Japan, Taiwan, Korea, Canada, Mexico, 9 Belgium, England, France, Italy, Brazil, 1 0 A r g e n t j n a , C o 1 u inb 5.a 1 .1 Q. Worldwide, basical1y? 1 2 A . Yes. 1 3 q. Did Union Caabide ever draw 1 4 d i s t i n c t i o n as to the g o v e r n m e n t a l r e g u l a t i o n s 1 5 a f f e c t i n g l a b e l i n g of a s b e s t o s p r o d u c t s as to 1 6 rna k i.n q a d e c i s i o n a b o u t l a b e l i n g of t h o s e 1 7 p r o d uc 1s ? 1 8 A. Y o u ha v e to clarify t h a t o r re peat .1 9 i t . I d o n 't follow. 2 0 Q D i d U n i.o n C a r b i d e e v e r m a k e a 2 1 d i s t i n c 1:.i.o n as t o t h e 1 a b e l i n g of a s b e s t o s 2 2 p r o d u c t s b a s e d u p on g o v e r n m e n t r e g u 1 a t i.o n s ? 2 3 A . No. 2 4 L e t m e. t r y t o c 1 a r i f y it. Do y o u m e a n 2 5 did we put a d i f f e r e n t label on it d e p e n d i n g w h i c h W 0 R LD WID E C 0 URT REPO RT E R S , INC. u n m c iviH t 7 1 3 "12 8 0 - 0 0 1 5 country 1 t wa s g o 1ng to ? 0 . T h a t. i s c o r r e c t. . A . Mo . Q O r n o 1 a b e 1 a t. a A . tve d 1 d n o t 1 a b o 1 6 F o 1 lo wing 19 6 8 , the lab e l i n g 7 packages. 8 (2 When you would s 9 of the as b e s t o s fiber, how d 1 0 b o x c a r s of a s b e stos f i b e r as 1 1 A . 0 n the exterior. 1 2 Q I n t e r i o r or e x te r i o r ? 1 3 A . The bags w e r e all labeled. 1 4 Q No, s ir, I 'm t a l k i n g a b o u t j u s t in 1 5 t h e s e h o p p e r s . Y o u w e r e t a l k i n g a b o u t t h a t y o u a 11 16 s e n t it. o u t b y t h e b o x c a r o r h o p p e r c a r s . 1 7 A. Well, they hada Department o 1 8 ! r a ti s p o r t a t i o n m a r k ont.h e m t ha t s a i d O H M C Asbestos. 2 0 O . W h a t d o e s t.ha t inean? 2 1 A . t h a t 's a d i s t ii'.c t i o n d e v e l o p e d by t h e 2 2 D e p a r t ine n t o f T r a n s p o r t a t i o n . 11 m e a n s o t h e .rw i s e 2 3 r e g u l a t e d m a t e r i a l , C l a s s C, a s b e s t o s . 2 4 Could I have thirty seconds? 2 5 WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, INC T.tr\ rit? M Z'7 1 1 \ 9 fi f) - f) 0 1 y h 1 2. 6 7 0 9 1 0 1 1 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 ]. 6 1 7 3. 8 19 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 2 4 25 (D 3.s e u 3 3 i o n o f f t h e r e c o r d . ) q _ (b y MX'. Made.ksiho) W a s t h e r e a n y t h i n g that prevented Union Carbide from putting a w a r n i n g about c a n c e r - c a u s i n g agent on their bags or on these railroad ear hoppers that the asbestos was being shipped in? A . No . q. Axe you familiar with the name Turner-Newal1? A q. . Yes . What does T u r n e r - N e w a l l mean to you? A. r. d o n ' t k n o w . T h e y 're a m a j o r - - h a v e b e e n a m a j o r f a c t o r in the a s b e s t o s world. I don't know whether they mine or manufacture. q, Did you ever have an o p p o r t u n i t y to v i s i t E n g l a n d on b u s i n e s s for U n i o n C a ibid e > A . Yes. q. And what business was that that you a t t e n d e d for Union C a r b i d e in E n g l a n d ? A . Sales. q . When was this, Mr. M y eis ? A_ i can't recall. While I was Marketing M a n a g e r , b e t w e e n 19 7 (3 a n d 1 9 0 1 . Q> W hen you b e c a m e M a r k e t i n g M a n a g e r in WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, INC n e. n rn A K1 1 9 7 O? A . Yes . 0 . Did Un 5o C a r b 5d e e ver provid e any e d u c a t i o n , t r a i n i n g or s c h o o l i n g a b o u t the hazards o f a ab e sto s t o you ? A . Well, Union Carbide didn't, per se. What do you mean by Union Carbide? Q Well, you were working for Union Carbide at the time. A . Yes . Q Did they ever have any training program f or you as the Marketing Manager to advise you about the dangers or hazards of asbestos, as far as the marketing of it? A . That was primarily a function of the mark e ting group to d e v e l o p that trai n in g , education 1 i terature f o r cus to ine r s , yes. Q - As I recall, you found out about m e s o t h e l i o m a in what year, now, sir? A . I d i d n 't s ay. It w a s in th e seventies Q W e 11, w o u l d that h a v e been by 1970 s i n c e y o u w e r e t h e ma n a g e r o f t h e m a r k e ti ng g r o u p ? n . No. I d o n 't r e c a l l t h a t I k n e w a b o u t it before 1970 WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, HOU S T ON ( 7 1 3 ) 2 B 0 - 0 0 1. 5 INC 9 0 1 Q . N o b o d y b r o u g h t t h a t to you r a 11e n t io n 2 MR . S ! A M M : He d i d n 't s a y t h a t . 3 H e s a i d he d i d n 't r e c a 1 ]. . 4 A . I d o n 't r e c a 11 t h a t t h e y did, no. 5 Q - (By Mr. M a d e k s ho) In r e g a r d to U n io n 6 C a r b i d e 's p u r c h a s e of a s be s t o s f i b e r t o u s e i n i t 7 own b u s i n e s s c o n c e r n i n g the p r o c e s s i n g of 8 materials and the m a n u f a c t u r i n g of various 9 products, what are all of the plants and locations 1 0 that asbestos fibers were used? 1 1 A. I d o n 't know. 1 2 Q. Y o u d o n 't k n o w a n y ? 1 3 A. You said all of them. 1 4 q . As many as you k n o w of. .1. 5 A . Bound Brook, New Jersey. Mainly the 16 o n e s that, w e ' v e t a l k e d a b o u t e a r l i e r . 1 7 MR. S T A M M : I t h i n k t h i s is 1 8 repetitious. 19 A . Indianapolis, Indiana. I don't know 2 0 w lie r e -- P r e s t o n e w a s ei t h e r -- o r t h e s t o p - 1 e a k 2 1 p r o b a b l y was made in West V i r g i n i a or - p r o b a b l y 2 2 I n Wes!: V i r g i n i a . 2 3 q . W a s n ' t ? r e s t o n e a l s o made: in T e x a s 2 4 City ? 2 5 A , i d o n ' t k n o w w h e t h e r t h e s t o p - l e a k ox- WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, HOUSTON ( 1 1 3 ) 2 8 0 - 0 0 1 5 INC. 9 9 1 t:li e a s b g s t o s - c o n t a . n i n g - - 2 Q * T h e P r e s t o n a n t :t f r a a z a ? 3 i'i . -- m a t e r i a 1 , I d o n 't k i o w . 4 Q Y o u w o u .1.d n ' : g u a r :re 1 i f. o t h e r 5 d o c u m e n tr, r e f l e c t e d t h a ; i t w a s m a d o t h e r e , w o u l d 6 you? 7 A , N o t if t h e y ' r e -- no, I w o u l d n 't B q u a r r e l w i t h t h e m b e c a u s e I have no k n o w l e d g e of 9 it . 1 0 Q. Would you quarrel with any other .1. 1 d o c u m e n t s s h o w i n g that the T e x a s C i t y P l a n t of 1 2 U n i o n C a r b i d e was u s i n g a s b e s t o s f i b e r in the 1 3 p r o c e s s i n g of some of t h e i r resins in the 1 4 plastics? 1 5 MR. STAMM: I o b ject to the form 1 6 of the q u e s tion. 1 7 Q . (Piy Mr. M a d e k s h o ) Y o u c a n g o a h e a d 1 0 and answer. 1 9 A. I have no k n o w l e d g e of any such use; 2 0 therefore, I could not quarrel with such 2 1 documents . 2 2 Are you f a m i 1 iar with Robert P e e 1e ? 23 A . Yes . 2 4 And who is Rob e r t Peele ? 2 5 A . X 'm f a nii 1 i a r w i t h - - I t h i n k iie w a s or W O R L D W I D E C O U R T REPORTERS, INC. HOUSTON ( 7 1 3 ) 2 0 0 - 0 0 1 5 1 0 0 1 i s , I d o n 't k n o w , an i n du s t r 1 a 1 h y g i o n 1 st o r 2 e n v i r o n inc n t a 3 t y p e e m p 3 o y c c: of U n i o n Cai' b .i.d c . 3 q . An d a r e y o u a m 1 1 i a r w i t h h o w .1.o n g Mi'. 4 Peele has been e m p lo ye d by On ion C a rb id e? 5 A . No . 6 Q Are you fam iliar w i th Dr . R . J . 7 Sexto n? 8 A . No . 9 W h a t a b o u t a Mr. S . C ,. Giani b r u n o ? 1 0 A . No . 1 1 Q Are you familiar with meetings that 1 2 U n i o n C a r b i d e used to a t t e n d wi t h o t h e r 1 3 m a n u f a c t u r e r s of a s b e s t o s - c o n t a i n i n g ma teri a l s ? 1 4 I 'll g i v e y o u an e x a m p l e . In r e g a r d to m e e t i n g s 15 with O w e n s - C o m i n g that Union Carbide -~ 1 6 A . No . 1 7 q , were there any joint meetings b etwee n 1 8 o t h e r m a n u f a c t u r e r s of a s b e s t o s - c o n t a i n i n g 19 m a t e r i a l s and you as an e m p l o y e e of Union Carbide, 2 0 other than AIA/NA? 2 1 A . W e l l , cis a c u s t o m e r of o u r s , I w o u 1 d 2 2 o n e u s t o m e r s , if y o u m e a n t h a t k i n d o f; a 2 3 meeting. 2 4 q. Yes, sir, t h a t 's p a r t of what. I 'm 2 5 g e t t i n g at. In r eg a r d to you WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, INC. tirtnpmnM c7 n s o n n - n n 15 .1.0 1 1 h _ Yo u k n o w , y o u s a i d a s b o s to -3 tis i n g 2 c. o inp a n i e. ? 3 Ci R i g h t . T h e p u r c.h u s e r s of t h e a s b e s t o s 4 f r o m U n io n C a r b i d e . In o t h e r words, U n i o n 5 C a r b i d e 's c u s t o m e r s . 6 A . Obviously, being Marketing Manager, I 7 w o u l d cali on c u s t o m e r s , yes . 8 q . And these would be the same people 9 that you had mentioned earlier, Armstrong and 1 0 O w e n s - C o r n i n g , C e l o t e x a n d G A P a n d Kfin t i l e a n d 1 1 t h o s e p e o p l e ; is t h a t w h a t y o u 're r e f e r r i n g to ? 1 2 j\. , i can't r e c a l l that I c a l l e d on or 13 have seen all of t h o s e c o m p a n i e s , but, in g eneral, 1 4 yes. 1 5 q, W e l l , l e t 's t a l k a b o u t s p e c i f i c a l l y , 1 6 then. Did you call on GAP? 1 7 A . Yes. 1 0 Q Did GAF also call on youall? 1 9 A . For what purpose? 2 0 Q . In r e g a r d to s e l l i n g you the i r 2 1 asbestos f i.b e r s ? 2 2 A . No . 2 3 Q A r e y o u f am i 1 i a r that. G A F h a d an 2 4 asbestos mine at Hyde Park, Vermont? 25 A . Yes. W O RL DW I DE COURT REPORTERS, INC. u n n c ' i ' f i W l 7 1 7 \ 2 8 f) - 0 D 1 5 t 10 2 1 9. W <is y o u a 11 's m i.ne bi g g e r I;h a n t h a 1 r 2 in i n e ? 3 A . The; m i n e --- t h e d e p o s i t is b i g g e r , I 4 d o n 't k n o w .b o u {'. t h c in i.n e . 5 - y o u a .11 's d e p o s i t is b i g g e r t h a n G A F 's 6 deposit? 7 A . The deposit, yes. 8 Q Did you call on people from A r mstrong? 9 A . Yes. 1 0 Q Did they also have people call on 1 1 y o u a 11 ? ]. 2 A. . No 13 Q Did you also call on people from 1 4 Celotex? 15 A . Yes . 1 6 Q Did you call on Owens-Corning? 1 7 A . I c a n 't r e c a 11 c.a 1 l i n g on t h e m , no. 1 8 Q - D id O w e n s - C o r n i n g have people call on 1 9 youall? 20 A . Not on - the a s b e s t o s group? 2 1 Q Y e s , s i X' . 2 2. A . N o t t h a t I c a n r e m e inb e r . 2 3 Q Did Ra y be s t o s - M a n h a t t a n ha v e pe o p 1 e 2 4 ca l l on you as the m a n a g e r of the m a r k e t i n g g r o u p ? 2 5 A No . WORLDWIDE COURT R E P O R T E R S , m a m n m A M / 7 1 \ P fl 0 " 0 0 1 ^ INC 1 \ 3 1 da: / I 1 0 3. 6 7 0 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 13 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 2 1 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 5 Q _ D i d y o u c a ]..1 o n t h e m ? h . No. Q. what was that big shipping facility you all had down on the East Coast w her e youall u s e d to b r i n g the ore i n t o ? Is it N e w p o r t ? A . I don't know. What ore are you talking about? q. S o m e w h e r e in Vir ginia. A. I d o n 't know. q. I 'm t a l k i n g a b o u t a s b e s t o s ore. A , We have, to my knowledge, never imported/ any asbestos ore. q. Would that be in a n o t h e r d i v i s i o n ? A. To my knowledge, Union Carbide has never' i m p o r t e d any a s b e s t o s ore. q . You, as the - A,, So, it m i g h t be in a n o t h e r d i v i s i o n , I d o n 't q t Mr. Myers, you, as be i n g the M a r k e t i n g M a n a g e r f o r U n i o n C a r b i d e .. A . No, for U n i o n C a r b i d e 's a s b e s t o s products. Q t p i gh t . Wo u 1 d you have k n o w n o f any and all p u r c h a s e s of a s b e s t o s fib e r s from o t he r m a n u f a c t u r e rs WORLDWIDE COURT R E P ORT E RS , imrKTnN ( 7 1 3 ) 2 8 0 - 0 0 1 5 INC 104 A, No, w e 'vc a I r e a d y b e o n t h r o u g h t h a t , 2 t ha t I do n 't k n o w a n y t h ing a b o u t the p u r c h a s e s at 3 o t h e r 1 o e a t .1o n s . O , S o , s o ine b o d y e .1s e w :i.t h U n i o n C a r b i d e would have that information? 6 A. 1 assume they w o uId , yes. 7 q. While you were with the King City 8 M i n e , d i d y o u e v e r h a v e a n y b o d y f r o m t h e U. S. 9 B u r e a u of Mines call on you in any c a p a c i t y ? 1 0 A. I d o n 't r e c a l l t h a t t h e r e w e r e any v i s i t o r s -- no, I don't r e c a l l any v i s i t o r s from 1 2 the U . S i Bureau of Mines. 13 q. Did you have anybody or did you ever 1 4 c a l l o n t h e U. S. B u r e a u o f M i n e s f o r a n y 1 5 a s s i s t a n c e t h a t y o u 'r e a w a r e of, as f a r as 16 information, et cetera? 1 7 A . By t e l e p h o n e or by c a l l i n g on or 1 8 visiting? 1 9 Ei t h e r way, p h o n e or c o r r e s p o n d e n c e or 2 0 in person. 2 1 A . I have called, yes, 22 Q . And do you recall the 2 3 A . A n d I 've h a d c o n v e r s a t i o n s w i t h t h e m . 2 4 Q Do you r e m e m b e r the n a t u r e of those 2 5 conversa t ions and the r e a s o n for the inquiry? WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, n r \ 11 r* rn S XI n n i 7fin-nrn R INC 1 0 [) .1 A . Oh, I ' v e t a l k e d to M r . C 11 11 o n a b o u t t h v. - t h it 's w h o r e I ar; k<;d f o r i n 1.o r m a t ;io n a b o u t. 3 t h e d t.p o s ].t :i.n 7, i m b a b w e , w h a t i t c o n s i.s t e d o f . 4 Q 1 5; t.h i s t h c s a ine M r . C 1 i i t o n t h a t w e n t 5 i;o w o r k w 1 1 h ,1oh n s - M a n v 5.11 e ? 6 A . I he: d i d , I 'in n o t. a w a r e of i t . He 7 8 ' 9 1 0 j us t r e t i re d l a s t y e a r , I t h 1 n k Q What about a nyb od y from OS H A , did they e v e r call o n you as far as any i inspection s ? A . N o t: t.h a t I r e c a l l . Y o u m e a n f e.d e r a 1 i 1 0 SHA? 1 2 q . That's correct, yes. 1 3 A . Not that I recall. 1 4 q . Did you ever hav e any other 1 5 r e p r e s e n t a t i v e d e a l i n g wi t;h h e a l t h a s p e c t s of 1 6 e n v i r o n n e n t a l e x p o s u r e s call on you or the mine at 1 7 K i n g C i t y dur ing the pe ri od o t t im e that you we re 1 8 l ocated the re ? . 1 9 A. Yes. 20 q, And who would that have been? 2 .1 A, C a l - O S HA, MSHA , Air R e s o u r c e s Board, 2 2 t h e M o n t ei'cy B a y O n i i ed A ir P o l l u t i o n ! C o n t r o l D i s t r i c t , t.lie Mo n t e r e y C o u n t y H ea 1 1 h D e p a r t m e n t , 2 4 the Coastal Regional Water Quality Control Board, 2 5 to name a tew. I think that would cover them WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS HOUSTON l 7 13 ) 2 0 0 0 0 15 INC. 1 0 6 1 j)r c 1 1 y g e n o r a .1.1y . p . w h e n y o u w e r e : o a .1. .1 x n g ori c. o inc of: t h e ; c u s i' o hi o I - o l: U n i o n C a :r b :i. d e , d .1d y o u Ir a v e a p x t. t L y g o o d r c:j a t i o n s h i p w :i.1.h t h e m tv i\ _ x n w h a.t w a y o r <ie i;1 n e r e 1 a t i o n s h i p ? 6 p , c l 1 ,j u s t. a w o r k I n g bu s I n e s s 7 r ela t i o n s h i p wi th t h e m . 8 A . in my opin i o n , we did. The c u s t o m e r 9 may not have thought the same. 1 0 q _ w h o w e r e t h e r e p r e s e n t a t.iv e s t h a t y o u 1 1 r e c a 11 f r o m A r m s t r o n g t h a t y o u v i s i t e d w i t h ? 1 2 A, , i don't remember' any names. I can 13 g i v e you a f i r s t n a m e in S o u t h Ga te, C a l i f o r n i a . .1 4 Earl., I t h i n k . I c a n 't reme m b e r " a l a s t n a m e . i 5 q . A t t lre S o u t h G a t e P 1 a n t ? 1 6 A Yes 1 7 q. A n d w ha t w as hi s p o s i t i o n wit h 1 8 A r m s t r o n g a t t h e S o u t h G a t.e P l a n t ? 1 9 A. i think h e was Technical Director. 2 0 q , A t t h e S o u t h G a t e P l a n t of; A r m s t r o n g , 2 1 t h a t 's w h e r e t h e y w a x ' a m a n u a c t u r ing t he a s b e s t o s 2 2 v 1.n y l f l o o r t i .1e s ? 2 3 A. Yes. 2 4 q, And did they also expand that facility 2 5 to include the a c o u s t i c a l tiles there? WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, INC >/\T / o \ O n il., n n 1 r. 1 07 1 A . N o 1. to my k n o w 1 e d y e . 0 p _ T h e y h a d s a v e i'a .1 1 o c a t i o n s :i n 3 Cali, f o r n i a , d 1 d t h e y n o t , i n r e g a r d to t h e 4 asbes tos viny 1 floor t i 1e s ? 5 A . Not to my k n o w l e d g e . 6 p , T h i s was the o n l y plant, t h a t you w e r e 7 familiar with where Armstrong was manufacturing a the asbestos or the vinyl asbestos floor tiles 9 d u r i n g the 1 9 7 0 's? 1 0 A . Yes. 1 1 p t Did they also continue, to manufacture 1 2 t h e m up i n t o t h e 1 9 8 0 's? 13 A. I d o n 't know. 1 4 q , D id yo u c o n t i n u e to cal l on them in 1 5 the 1980 '3? 16 A . No. q t D i d you c a 11 on t h e i r a c o u s t i c a l til e .1 7 18 plants as well, Mr. Myeis? 1 9 A. Not that I recall. 2 0 q. Which of the asphalt roofing plants 2 1 for Celotex did you call on ? 2 2 A. As I said b e f o r e , I d o n ' t r e c a l l tha t 2 3 Celotex had asphalt roofing. It was some kind of 2 4 a roofing compound. And, no, I have not called on 2 5 any of their plants that I can remember. WORLDWIDE COURT R E P O R T E R S , HOUSTON (7 1 3 ) 2 8 0 - - 0 0 1 5 INC. 1 2 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 I 1 2 13 i 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 19 20 2 1 22 2 3 24 25 i on q. w h i c h of the G A P tael 11 t 1 e s d id y o u ca 1 1 on? A. L o n g Beat:]'.. q . rpl a t 's w h e r e t h c y w e r e m a k i n g a 1 s o t h e vinyl asbestos floor t i l e s , 1 n the L o n g B ea c h -- A . Yes . p . d id th ey a1 so mak e the asbestos siding there, too? A . I d o n 't k n o w that they make asbestos siding. q, GAP also made a s b e s t o s -containing roofing materials, did they no t ? A . I don't know. q , w e r e y o u s t i l l c a l l i n g on GAP in the 1980 's? A . No, I d o n 't t.hink so Q Lat e A . I d oonn 't k n o w w h e n w a ; t h e l a s t t i m e I visited GAP Q > Y o u r A . I c a nn ' t p i n i t d o w n toi a n y m o r e t h a n t h e s e v e n t.i e s . Q La te s e v e n ti e s ? A . I, c).t o . Q W a s t h a t t h e i r f a c i l i i:y r i g h t o u t s i d e WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS unnciiinM i7 1 "G ? f!0 - 0 0 1 5 INC. 3. 0 9 1 2 3 D 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 12 13 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 18 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 24 2 5 of L ,,A . , 0 1'a n q o C o u n t;y ? A . Long Beach . Q Ye:i, L o n g R e a c h , t h a l: 's r i g h t MR. MADEKSHO: O f f t h e r e c o r d f o r a mi n u t e . ( D i s c u s s i o n o f f t h e r e c o r d .) MR. MADEKSHO: l i t t l e short break here. L e t us t a k e a , (Brief recess taken.) q. (By Mr. B a l l a r d ) M r . M y e r s , l e t me c l e a r u p s o m e t h i n g s t h a t a r e g u e s t i o n s i n my mind. I t may be c l e a r i n t h er e c o r d , b u t I n e e d to get t h i s s t r a i g h t i n my mym i n d . You m e n tio n ed U v a ld e as one of th e c u s t o m e r s o f U n i o n C a r b i d e ' s a sb e s t o s a nd t h a t s t r u c k a b e l l w i t h me b e c a u s e w e ' v e g o t a U v a l d e h e re in T e x a s . I s t h e r e some c o n n e c t i o n ? A . Yes. q . B o , U n i. c>n C a r b i d e s h 5. p p e da s b e s t o s t o U v a l d e w h a t ? U v a l d e R o c k C o m p a n y o r U v a l d e --- ^ > j t h i n k i t wa s U v a l d e R o c k A s p h a l t W O R L D W I D E C O UR T R EP ORTERS, INC. HOUSTON (713)280-0015 1 1 o 1 2. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 13 14 1 6 1 7 1 0 1 9 20 2 1 2.2 2 3 2.4 25 C ompa ny , th e A s-Rock D iv isio n 0 _ A n d , as I u n d e r s t a rid f r o m y o u r t e s t imony, at some point in time a m a n a g e r i a l d e c i s i o n w a s m a d e t o p u t c a u t i o n s on y o u r b a g s of: asbestos that were shipped from your mine? A . Yes. q. And that once that decision was made, the c a u t i o n s oE some sort were put on all bags thereafter? yes. To the best of my k n o w l e d g e , yes . q. , And that would be . true whether the b a g s w e r e s h i p p e d n a t i o n a .11 y in t h e U . S . ox i n t e r n a t i o n a l l y to f o r e i g n c o u n t r i e s ? A. Yes. p _ And from the time that managerial decision was made, did Union Carbide ever stop p l a c i n g those c a u t i o n s on the bags for any period of time ? A. Not to my k n o w l e d g e . Let me c l a r i f y w h e t h e r it was the same on all b a g s b e c a u s e we did, a n d t h i s is w i t h o u t my n e c e s s a r i l y p e r s o n a l d i r e c t knowledge, we did p a c k a g e in bag s for s h i p m e n t to E u r o p e that were to the d i s t r i b u t o r ' s d e s i g n and no t to our W O RL D WI D E COURT REPORTERS, INC. MAnr*nrtiit / -i i r ?n n - 0 0 1 5 1 1 1 I /. 3 4 13 :J 6 7 8 9 1. 0 1 1 1 2 .13 1 4 ]. 5 .1 6 1 7 1 0 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 24 2 5 d e s i g n , So, i c a n n o t p o s i C I.v o .1.y is a y t h a t w o h a d t.h v. E n g .1i ::h v.'a r n 1 n g o n t h o v. b a g s . Q * W o 1 1., 1 m a y h a V C a s s u ine d 1:h a t; i f y o u. s h i p p e ci to E r a n c e , y o u w o u 1 d p u t. i t i n V :c e n c h . j7.\i. Wo . Q T h a 1. 's i n c o r .re c t y A . yes. Q But the p o i n t I w a n t e d to be su r e in my m i n d a b o u t is o n c e t h e d e c i s i o n was m a d e to pu t caut i o n s on the bags, every bag that you know a bout that went out of your faci l i t y had a cau t i o n on i t a f t e r t h a t p o i n t i n ta ine? A. With that one e x c e p t i o n of the d i s t r i b u t o r to w h o m we s h i p p e d in E u r o p e in bags d e s i g n e d to his speci .icatio n s . Q * Did his bags ha ve any caution s them? A . I c a n ' t r e c a 11. Q So, as we s t a n d now on y o u r t e c.o .11 e c t i on , t h e b a g s to t h a t o n e s p e c i a l c u s t o m e r m a y o v ina y n o t h a.v e h a d a c a u L i o n t. h e in ? A . yes . Q A n d who wa s t ha t c u s t o m e r ? A . Deg us sa . W 0 1?I,DWIl) K C 0 U R T R K P 0 R T E R S , I N C . ( 7 1 1 \ ') H 0 *>(1 fl 1 S ! 1I t i \ ! ii i \ r l;. i L 3. 1 2 l 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 3. 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 I 7 18 1 9 2 0 21 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 5 Q D egussa? A . Yes. D o y o u h a v e a n y f i na n c i a 1 c:o n n e c t i on fi w i t h U n io n C arbide at this time? A . No . Q E i th er t h r o u g h a r e t i r e m e n t plan, a stoc k - f u n d e d plan or anything of that nature? And I d on't care about the amount, but I need to know if you have an y c o n n e c t i o n f i n a n c i a l l y with them? A . I have a vested pension with Union Carbide. And would any of that p e n s i o n be Q funded by Union Carbide stock? I know some c o m p a n i e s f u n d thei.r r e t i r e m e n t p l a n s by the c o m p a n y 's stock. A . I d o n 't t h i n k so. Q Rut you are vested? A . Yes. Y o u r b a c k g r o u n d , as I r e c a l l , is a Q B a c h e l o r of S c i e n c e in C h e m i c a l E n g i n e e r i n g ? A . Yes. I 've q o t to a s k y o u t h i s q u e s t i o n . Q K C A C , I n c . , w o u .1d t h a t b e f r o m K i n g C i t y A s b e s t o s Company? A . B y g o l l y . It. s o u n d s l i k e it, b u t it W O R L D W I D E C OURT REPORTERS, INC. __ _ - ... ^v, / ~r t "I \ n r\ ... n n 1 c 1 ].3 1 i .s i n c o r p o .ra 1:o d a s o n J.y t h e i a i t i a 3.ri . 2 Y o u n e e d e d a n a ino , so v o u p i c 1:e d .. 3 A . It c o u 1 d b e K .1a g C i t y A t h .1.e t i c C l u b . 4 Q O r v a r i.o u o t h a r c. o m b i n a t i o n s o f t h o s 5 1 e 1:t.a r s . 6 M R . S T A M Ms Y o u u s e d t h a t .'line 7 before, I bet, 8 q . (By Mr. B a l l a r d ) And a g ain, so as to 9 s t r a i g h t e n up in my m i n d , U n i o n C a r b i d e is now a n d 1 0 h a s b e e n fox- s o m e p e r i o d of: t i m e a m e m b e r of t h e J. 1 Wellington Asbestos Claims Faci 1i ty? 1 2 MR. S T A M M : W e 'll s t i p u l a t e t h a t i 3 Union Carbide has been a member since June 19th, 1 4 1 9 8 5. ] 5 MR. BALL A R D : W o uld you s t i p u l a t e 1 6 before that? 17 M R . S T A M M : No, b e c a u se t h a t `s 1 8 w le n t le a g r e e m e n t w a s s i g n e d . 1 9 q. (By Mr. B a l l a r d ) Is t h a t y o u r 2 0 r e c o l l e c t i o n t h a t 's w h e n the a g r e e m e n t was s i g n e d ? 2 1 ^ _ I w o u 1d h ave no idea other tha n 2 2 q . T h a t w o u l d b e t h e W e 1 1 in g t o n 2 3 A cj r e e m e n t V 2 4 M R . STAMM: Yes. 2 5 A . l a s riu m e t h a t m y c o u n s e l is a c c u r a t e . w 0 R L D W I D E C0[JRT R E P O R T E R S , Ma n <?fpa m / 7 i *} \ o p n --n n 1 ^ INC. 1 114 M R ` STAMM; r , 2 19, 1985. Ch<!Ck- T " - ' (, <By M r ' BlJlard) (-c*r -i- d e w t,r. . . BO y o u fcnow t . 1 *- U n i o n Wellington? U n d i S c l o s e d m e m b e r of M R - STAMM- ` Tf If you know. ' 1 'ra n o t s u r e ileard that nai' t h e V were a .. cn fid ent i i ntaal member or - of 1 tnat ,+ 1 was term * called ti *have a 2- A . (By Hr. Ballard) } <, >a" e 1 forget the t e r ,, . difference. s j- n a t o r y ? M R - ADKKSHO, c o n f i d e n t i a l Part THE WITNESS t a 1 don't know. ' ^ y Mr. B a l l a r d ) Bid ,, in n e g o t i n f o o t r a t r n g the entry of U n . P l a y a "Y The Facility, C*rb" A No. Do y o u k n o w who did? B e p a r t m e n t X ^ 'a S Z ^" ^ ^ h a d s o m e h a n d in it< Q* ne ther " 1N AN waa he still y n c a m e w i t h th t h Ulf! c o m p a n y ? Mr. W ,, ^ nin Carbide whG" A' 1 d n#t know the name. 1 J. 5 1 Q, 8 e ing a d i e m 1 c a 1 e n g 1 neer, yo u 'ro //".> faiail w i t h t h e volume: p u t out. b y S a x on d a n g e r o u s p r o p e r t i e s o L: m a t e r i a 1 s ? 4 A . P u t mi I: iny w h o ? 5 Q . S a x , S A X . Y o u 'r o n a t 1:a m i 1 i a t w i t h 6 t h a t ? 7 A . No. 8 9 (Discuasion off the record.) 1 0 1 .1 Q . (By Mr. B a l l a r d ) Y o u ' v e i n d i c a t e d J. 2 t h a t y ou.'r e n o t f a m i l i a r w i t h d u s t c o u n t i n g or 1 3 d u s t c o u n t i n g t e c h n i q u e s . Do you k n o w if R o b e r t 1 4 Peel e is -- 1 5 A . Oh, a r e you m a k i n g an a s s u m p t i o n that 16 I 'm n o t a m i 1 i a r w 1 1 h d u s t co u n t i ng? 1 7 Q Yes . 1 (3 A , Yes, I am . 1 9 Q Y o u a X'e f a m i l i a r w i t h d u s t c o u n t i n g ? 2 0 A . I 'm n o t u n f a m i l i a r w i th it. 2 1 Q W e 11 , w h a t i s y o u r f a m i 1 i a ri t y w i t h 2 2 dust count i ng ? 2 3 A . T hie a i r ino n i t.o r i n g f o r o u r c u s t.o m e r s 2 4 w a s d o n e by p e o p 1 e u n d e x' m y s u p e r v i s i o n . 25 Q - W o u 1 d t hio s e b e i n d u s t r i a l h y g i e n i.s t s W O R L D W I D E C O U R T R E P O RTERS, INC. umi c nm r / n n n n- n n u 1 16 1 t h a t m o n i t o r e d .. 2 A . No, p r i o r t.o m y t.i.ine, t h e a i r 3 monitoring was done at the King City Mine and Mill 4 by an .industrial h y g i e n i s t of the corporation, but 5 we do no t h i r e one now. 6 Q. And did Union Carbide have any 7 i n d u s t r i a l hyg i e n i s t s who b e l o n g e d to the A C G IH ? 8 A. I w o u l d a s s u m e so, b u t I d o n 't k n o w 9 t h a t as a fact. 1 0 q. And did Union C a r b i d e s u b s c r i b e to the 1 1 r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s of the A C G IH i n s o f a r as the dust 1 2 counting techniques were concerned? 1 3 A. I d o n 't k n o w w h e t h e r t h e y p u b l i s h e d 1 4 any t e c h n i q u e s on dust counting. .1 5 q. I may be g e t t i n g on d a n g e r o u s g r ou n d 1 6 m a k i n g a s s u m p t i o n s , b u t ina y I m a k e t h e a s s u m p t i o n 1 7 that you d o n 't k n o w a n y t h i n g a b o u t the A C G I H and 18 their publications about dust counting techniques? 1 9 A. That's a correct assumption. 2 0 Q. The next series of q u e stions, Mr. 2 .1 M y e r s . W h e n d i d U n i.o n C a r b i d e f i r s t b e g i n 2 2 negotiating with The Wellington Facility? 2 3 MR. S T A M M : Tins sa m e o b j e c t i o n as 24 I h a d b e f o r e a n d t h e sa ine. i n s t r u c t i o n s to t h e 2 5 w i t n es s . WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTERS, h o ri u t o n m - n i r o - o n i s INC. 1 1 7 ] M R . n A !,LI\ I'0 : C o u .1.d y o u a t a t o t h o r) b a v i i: o 7 t.h o o b ic c t i o a ? 3 MR. G T A M M : I .rr e l e v a n 1. . 4 {) . (b y M r B a1 .1 a r d ) W o u .1d U a io n C!a r b i d e b h a v o b o t;nn e tjo t .i.a t i 11 y v/ 1 b ]\ T h o W e .1.1i n g 1.o n !a c i1 i i-y 6 a a o f: S e}>1.e m b e r 1 9 8 4? '1/ MR. ST A M M : S a tue i n s t r u c i;i o n . 8 MR . H A L L,AR D : C ert i f y t h o s e t w o 9 questions, please. 1 0 q . (By Mr. B a l l a r d ) F i r s t , l e t ine a s k , 1 1 do you know when Union Carbide began negotiating 1 2 w i t h T h e ,W e l l i n g t o n F a c i l i t y ? 1 3 A . No. 1 4 q. Do you k n o w wh o w o u l d know? 1 5 A . No. 1 6 M R . B A L LA R D : W e 'v e w a s ted a 1 o t 1 7 of time with that. 1 8 M R . M A D E K SII0 : Y o u X' o n .1y 1 9 r e c o l l e c t i o n is t h a t t h e a11; o r n e y s h a d t a .1k e d t o 2 0 you about t wo ye a rs ago in r e g a r d to T h e 2 1 W e l l j.n g t o n G r o u p o r t h e As b e s t o s C l a i m s F a c i.1 i t y ? 2 2 T H E W I T N H S S : Yes. I w o u 1 d.n 't 2 3 e r m i t t a .1k e d t o m e . I m e a n , t h i s w a s n 1t a --~ 2 4 MR . M A DE K 3H0 : 11 came to y o u r 2 5 k n o w l e d g e a t i;h a t t :Lm e ? W 0 R L D W J D E C 0 tJR T R E P 0 R T E R S , I N C . u n n <t' n m 1 7 1 1 I 9 l i 11 - (1 P 1 ^ 1 18 1 TH K W IT N E 8 S : That there w a s 2 s o m c t h i n g g o i n g on, yet; . 3 MR. B A L L A R D : That' s a 11 I've 4 got. f> 6 MR. S T A M M : Anyone: else? MR. McCLDE: I don't have any 7 questions at this time. 8 9 ( D e p o s i t i o n r e c e s s e d a t 4 : 5 5 p .m .) 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 J O H N L. M Y E R S 1 5 THE STATE OF TEXAS : 1 6 C O U N T Y O F ______________ : 1 7 S U B S C R I B E D AND S W O R N TO B E F O R E ME, 18 t h e u n d e r s i g n e d a u t h o r i t y , b y t h e w i t n e s s , J O H N L. 1 9 M Y E R S , o n t h i s t h e ___________ d a y o 2 0 _____________________, 1 9 8 6 . 2 .1 2 2 2 3 Nota r y Pub 1 ic i n and tor ___________ C o u n t y , T e x a s 2 4 My Commi s s i o n Expires: 25 W O R L D W I D E C O U R T REPORTERS,' INC. u r> n c< T > r> M / v i n N o n n --nnic: 1 .19 1 THE S T A T 8 OF T K X AG 2 if , 8 u s a n 1? . Go] d o t c :in , a C o r t .if :io d 3 S h ortiia n d R e p o r t e r I a a n d f:o r t h e G t;a t o o f T e x a s , 4 d o h e r e b y c e r t :if y t h a t a t. t hie t i m e a n d p 1 a c e 5 s La t e d h e r e I n , t h e wi i;n e s s , J 0 H N L . M Y R R S , 6 p e r s o n a l l y a p p e a r e d b e f o r e me and a f t e r b e i n g by 7 me first duly sworn to tell the truth, was 8 e x a m i n e d by counsel for the resp e c t ! v e parties 9 hereto; that the testimony of said witness was 1 0 t a k e n in s h o r t h a n d by me, later- r e d u c e d to 1 1 t y p e w r i t i n g u n d e r m y d i r e c t i o n , a n d t h e f o r e g o j.n g 1 2 118 pages is a true and c o r r e c t t r a n s c r i p t of said 1 3 tes t i m o n y . 1 4 GIVEN UNDER MY HAND AND SEAL OF OFFICE 1 5 o n t h i s ___________ d a y o f S e p t e m b e r , 1 9 8 8 , J. 6 1 7 I 8 1 9 2 G Susan R . Goldstein Certified Shorthand Reporter 2 1 i n a n d t'or t h e S t a t e of T e x a s Texas CSR No. 704 22 Expiration Date: 12/31/86 2 3 2 4 25 W O R L D W I D E C O U RT REPORTERS, INC. H O U S T O N C! 13 )2 8 0 - 0 0 15 12 0 1 S T A T !; 0 T ftX A 6 2 Jj r 1 , S uann R . G o .1 d t . e i n , t h e Certif icd 4 S Ito r iIta td R e p o r t o r b e f o r o w h o m t h e a b o v e a n d 5 f: ox o g e i :g d e p o a x t i on wit n t.a k e n , d o h e r e b y c.e 1"t i fy 6 t h a t a t t h e t i.m e o f t h e t a k i n g of s a i d d e p o s i 1 1 o n 7 c e :rt a in o r a 1 que:;ti oris w e r e p r o p o u n d e d a n d c e r t a i n 0 a n s w e r s g i v e n , as s h o w n in the t r a n s c r i p t of the 9 d e p o s i t i o n of J O H N L. M Y E R S , f i l e d in t h e a b o v e i 0 cap t i o n e d cause, and c er ta i n q u e s t i o n s were .1 i pro p ou n d e d and w e re not a n s w e r e d , as s h o w n in t h e 1 2 t r a n s c r i p t of said d e p o s i t i o n , as follows: 1 3 R e g i n n i n g at p a g e 5 0, 1 i n e 1 . 1 4 B e g 1 n n i n g a 1: p a g e 1 1 6 , l i n e 20. 1 5 16 1 7 G .1V E N U N D E R M Y H A N D A N D S E A L O F 0 F F I C E , ]. 0 on t h i s t h e ___________ d a y of S e p t e m b e r , 1 9 8 6 . 1 9 20 2 1 Susan R . Goldstein C ert ified Shorthand Report er 2 2 G SR No. 7 0 4 , S t a t e (if T e x a s 2 3 2 4 2 5 WO RLD WID E COURT REPORTERS, INC. H A n o c n M t7 1 x \9 n n - n n 1 s IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS GALVESTON DIVISION BOBBY R. SANFORD VS JOHNS-MANVILLE SALES CORPORATION, ET. AL. CA: G-82-325 NOTICE OF INTENTION TO TAKE ORAL DEPOSITION TO: Mr. John Sullivan, BAKER 8. BOTTS, One Shell Plaza, Ho ust on Texas, attorney of record for the Asbestos Claims Facility Mr. Witcher McCullough, III, BAKER & BOTTS, One Shell Plaza, Houston, Texas, attorney of record for G . A . F . ; Ms. El i z ab et h Thompson, BUTLER & BINION, 1600 Allied Bank Plata, Houston, Texas, attorney of record for Raymark, Industries; Mr. La wre nc e Madeksho, at to rne y at law, 8320 Gulf Freeway, Suite 218 Houston, Texas, attorney of record for Plaintiff Please take notice that pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, the deposition of UNION CARBIDE CORPORATION, by and through its corporate representative, will be taken on the 4th day of S e p t em be r 1986 c o mm e n c i n g at 1:30 p. m. and c o nt in ui n g from day to day thereafter until completed. The deposition will be condu cted at the Law O f fic es of Robert Ballard, ABRAHAM, WATKINS, NICHOLS, 3ALLARD, ON S TA D 8, FRIEND, 800 Co mmerce Street, Houston, Texas, before a court reporter from Worldwide Court Reporters, Inc., P.0. Box 58170, Houston, Texas 77258. X The corporate defendant shall designate one or more of its officers, directors, managing agents or other persons who consent to testify on its behalf. The persons designated by the corporate defendant shall testify on behalf of said corporate d e f e n d a n t 'with respe ct to the f o l l o wi n g matters: 1. As be s to s mines; 2. M em be r s h i p in the AIA (Asbestos Informa ti on Association); 3. In surance D e pa r t m en t n e g o t i a t i o n s with As be sto s Cla im s Facility; 4. Begi nni ng peri od of n e g o t i a t i o n s between As be sto s Claims Facility and date of signing with Wellington Facility; 5. Produ ce all c o r r e s p o n d e n c e b e twe en Ra ybestos Manhattan, (Raymark Industries) including all correspondence with the AIA; G. M an uf a c t u r e r s of any p r o d u c t s c o n t ai n i n g asbestos; 7. Sourc es of supply cf asbestos; 3, 'Years of using or p r oc e s s i n g as be sto s or asbestos products; 9. Any and all a s b e s t o s cl a im s li ti ga t i o n involved prior to this time. Respectfully submitted, ABRAHAM, WATKINS, NICHOLS BALLARD, ONSTAD & FRIEND Rob er t E. Ballard Texas Bar #1651000 800 Commerce Street Houston, Texas 77002 (713) 222-7211 ATTORNEY FOR PLAINTIFF CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE I hereby certify that a true and correct copy of the foregoing Notice has been forwarded to all interested counsel of record by hand delivery on this the c d a y of August 1086. d*- Rob er t E. Ballard /A ; 3 1560 W. Bay Area Boulevard, Suite 280 Houston, Texass 7777554466 (713)280-0015 August 22, 1986 Mr. Hugh Bartlett District Clerk's Office United States Federal Courthouse 601 Rosenberg Galveston, Texas In Re: C.A. No. G-82-325; Notice of Intention to Take Oral Deposition of Union Carbide Corp. Dear Mr. Bartlett: Enclosed please find the original Notice of Intention to Take Oral Deposition of Union Carbide Corporation in the above-referenced cause. I would appreciate your filing this Notice among the official records in this case. By copy of this letter we are informing all interested counsel of the filing of this Notice. Thanking you for your assistance in this matter, I remain Sincerely yours Enclosure cc : Mr. Robert E. B a ll a r d Mr. Lawrence Madeksho Mr. John Sullivan Mr. Witcher McCullough, III Ms. E lizabeth Thompson