Document OJ1Ypgpw8pkJb4pO3NMV7XjBw

mayausky 0001 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 2 FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA 3 EASTERN DIVISION 4 5 CIVIL ACTION NO. CV-96-P-0440-E 6 WALTER OWENS, et al., 7 Plaintiffs, 8 vs. 9 MONSANTO COMPANY, 10 Defendant. 11 12 13 DEPOSITION OF JACK S. MAYAUSKY 14 In accordance with Rule 5(d) of 15 The Alabama Rules of Civil Procedure, as 16 Amended, effective May 15, 1988, I, DONNA 17 ARMSTRONG, am hereby delivering to LARRY 18 WRIGHT, the original transcript of the oral 19 testimony taken on the 29th 20 day of March, 2001, along with exhibits. 21 Please be advised that this is the 22 same and not retained by the Court 23 Reporter, nor filed with the Court. 0002 1 2 DEPOSITION TESTIMONY OF: 3 4 JACK S. MAYAUSKY 5 6 MARCH 29, 2001 7 8 12:30 p.m. 9 10 11 COURT REPORTER: Donna Armstrong 12 13 14 STIPULATION 15 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED, by 16 and between the parties, through their 17 respective counsel, that the deposition of 18 JACK S. MAYAUSKY may be taken before Donna 19 Armstrong, Commissioner, Certified 20 Professional Reporter and Notary Public, 21 State at Large; 22 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND 23 AGREED that the signature to and reading of 0003 1 the deposition by the witness is not 2 waived, the deposition to have the same 3 force and effect as if full compliance had 4 been had with all laws and rules of Court 5 relating to the taking of depositions; 6 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND 7 AGREED that it shall not be necessary for 8 any objections to be made by counsel to any 9 questions, except as to form or leading 10 questions, and that counsel for the parties 11 may make objections and assign grounds at 12 the time of trial, or at the time said 13 deposition is offered in evidence, or prior 14 thereto. Page 1 HARTOLDMON0017171 mayausky 15 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND 16 AGREED that the notice of filing of the 17 deposition by the Commissioner is waived. 18 19 20 21 22 23 0004 1 INDEX 2 3 EXAMINATION BY: PAGE: 4 5 Mr. Wright 7 6 7 EXHIBITS 8 9 (There were no exhibits offered or attached 10 to this deposition.) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 0005 1 APPEARANCES 2 3 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 4 LARRY WRIGHT 5 Mithoff & Jacks, LLP 6 111 Congress Avenue 7 Suite 1010 8 Austin, Texas 78701 9 10 GROVER G. HANKINS 11 Professor of Law 12 Thurgood Marshall School of Law 13 Texas Southern University 14 3100 Cleburne Avenue 15 Houston, Texas 77004 16 17 FOR THE DEFENDANT: 18 EDDIE NEWSOM 19 Smith, Helms, Mulliss & Moore 20 1355 Peachtree Street, NE 21 Suite 750 22 Atlanta, GA 30309 23 0006 1 KEVIN E. CLARK 2 Lightfoot, Franklin & White, LLC 3 The Clark Building 4 400 20th Street North 5 Birmingham, AL 35203-3200 Page 2 HARTOLDMON0017172 mayausky 6 7 I, Donna Armstrong, a Certified 8 Professional Reporter of Birmingham, 9 Alabama, and a Notary Public for the State 10 of Alabama at Large, acting as 11 Commissioner, certify that on this date, 12 pursuant to Rule 30 of the Alabama Rules of 13 Civil Procedure and the foregoing 14 stipulation of counsel, there came before 15 me at The Clark Building, 400 20th Street 16 North, Birmingham, Alabama, on the 29th day 17 of March, 2001, commencing at 12:30 p.m., 18 JACK S. MAYAUSKY, witness in the above 19 cause, for oral examination, whereupon the 20 following proceedings were had: 21 22 JACK S. MAYAUSKY, 23 0007 1 being first duly sworn, was examined and 2 testified as follows: 3 4 EXAMINATION BY MR. WRIGHT: 5 Q. Mr. Mayausky, how many depositions 6 have you given? 7 A. In my life? 8 Q. Yes, sir. 9 A. Four. 10 Q. How many of them related to the 11 Anniston situation? 12 A. All of them. 13 Q. All of them. All right. What was 14 the most recent? 15 A. Most recent would have been spring 16 of last year, April, I believe -- no. 17 1999. I take that back. 18 Q. Since I don't have those prior 19 depositions present, I'll have them 20 obviously before you testify, but can you 21 give me a two minute version of your 22 background starting with education and work 23 experience? 0008 1 A. I'm trained as a chemist, got a 2 bachelor of science degree from the 3 University of Pittsburg, doctorate in 4 chemistry from Ohio State University. 5 Q. When was that? 6 A. 1982. Immediately started working 7 for Monsanto in Pensacola, Florida, and 8 moved through various positions at that 9 plant eventually rising to what we term as 10 a business unit leader, somebody who runs 11 the manufacturing unit. I left Pensacola 12 and went to Nitro, West Virginia, where we 13 had a plant, and from Nitro to Anniston, 14 and from Anniston to Springfield, 15 Massachusetts where we have a plant. 16 Q. Is that where you've been since 17 you left Anniston? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. When did you first arrive in 20 Anniston? Page 3 HARTOLDMON0017173 mayausky 21 A. I was actually hired for the job 22 approximately June of '94, but there was a 23 transition period so I was in place in 0009 1 August of '94. 2 Q. And Mr. Defer - 3 A. Yeah. 4 Q. -- was in Anniston before you? 5 A. Just prior to me was Bill Defer. 6 Q. Where is he now? 7 A. I kind of lost track of him. He 8 left Anniston to go to the Augusta, Georgia 9 plant, and I'm not certain if he is still 10 there or not. 11 Q. Do you believe he is still with 12 Monsanto or Solutia? 13 A. That portion of the company 14 remained with Monsanto. 15 Q. Okay. What were you told about 16 any PCB environmental situation in Anniston 17 before you took the job or when you took 18 the job? 19 A. As part of the interview process 20 several candidates came down to Anniston, 21 and I was the last of four and I was hired 22 by the employees at that plant. They 23 literally screened us and sent us down to 0010 1 the plant to be interviewed by employees at 2 a closing dinner before I went back to West 3 Virginia. I was having dinner with Robert 4 Jones who was the environmental 5 superintendent at the facility and I guess 6 he got an inkling that I had done very well 7 on the interview and I was likely to be the 8 candidate, so he told me at that meeting 9 about recent findings of the West End 10 landfill and recent findings of the South 11 landfill. 12 Q. Oh, by the way, kind of deal? 13 A. Yeah, oh by the way. 14 Q. Okay. What did he tell you? 15 A. He told me that PCBs in tars had 16 been found in the West End landfill. 17 Monsanto reacquired the land to facilitate 18 the remediation of it and that we were in 19 the process of working with ADEM to develop 20 a remediation plan ana probably during my 21 time there I would be a part of those 22 activities. 23 Q. Did he tell you anything about the 0011 1 South landfill? 2 A. He mentioned that there was a 3 South landfill and that there was some 4 discussions with ADEM that we should sample 5 waters coming off both the West End 6 landfill and South landfill. 7 Q. Was it your understanding that no 8 sampling of the runoff waters at the South 9 landfill had been done at that time? 10 A. To the best of my recollection, I 11 don't think any sampling was done because Page 4 HARTOLDMON0017174 mayausky 12 ?enerally they don't sample water streams 13 or PCBs and they were going to. 14 Q. I'm sorry. What did you just say? 15 A. They don't generally sample water 16 streams for PCB. 17 Q. Who doesn't? 18 A. General practice by people is not 19 to sample water streams. It was more to 20 sample sedimentation. And I remember Mr. 21 Jones telling me there was a specific 22 request to sample water stream. 23 Q. Had there been any sediment or 00 1 soil sampling at the South landfill by that 2 time? 3 A. At that time as I was transitioned 4 into the job? 5 Q. Yes, sir. 6 A. Not that I'm aware of. 7 Q. So all of that was in the future 8 at that time? 9 A. Yeah. 10 Q. When did you -- when was this 11 interview process? 12 A. Around June of '94. 13 Q. And just out of curiosity, explain 14 what you mean by the workers at that plant 15 hired you or - 16 A. The way Monsanto was selecting 17 plant managers at that time is that they 18 would have secession plannings for people 19 who could be potential candidates for plant 20 manager. They would screen that list down 21 to people they thought would be potential 22 for an opening at a given facility. I went 23 to corporate for interviews and out of that 00 1 group then four of us were selected to go 2 to Anniston, and we were interviewed by 3 teams of employees at that plant. People 4 who would be on my direct staff when I got 5 there was one team, union officers was 6 another team, and what we call front line 7 supervisors were a third. 8 Q. How was the decision actually 9 made? 10 A. The criteria was placed on the 11 plant -- there was certain criteria you 12 were interviewed against. Certain skill 13 sets, if it was readily apparent that 14 somebody was successful it was entirely the 15 plant's decision, if there was two 16 candidates who were very close to each 17 other the final decision would go back to 18 St. Louis, listening to the input of the 19 plant. And in my case it was clear and 20 there was not that additional step needed. 21 Q. Did Mr. Jones remain as the 22 environmental manager throughout your 23 tenure at the plant? 00 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. Is he still there today? Page 5 HARTOLDMON0017175 mayausky 3 A. To my knowledge he is still there. 4 MR. WRIGHT: Eddie, are y'all 5 going to call him? Do you know? I don't 6 remember him being on the list. 7 MR. NEWSOM: You better not rely 8 on me for that. I don't want to send you 9 down the wrong road. I think he is 10 certainly on a witness list. 11 MR. WRIGHT: well - 12 MR. NEWSOM: But that's me 13 talking. I hadn't seen it to confirm - 14 MR. CLARK: I'm not sure that he 15 i s. 16 MR. WRIGHT: I'm not sure that he 17 is either. The list that I got from Mike 18 Kelly, I don't think included him. 19 Obviously, if he is going to be called we 20 need to depose him some time. We can do it 21 sometime during trial or something. 22 MR. NEWSOM: I agree. 23 Q. (By Mr. Wright) When did you 0015 1 actually begin work? 2 A. It was August. I don't remember 3 the exact date but August of '94 I was in 4 pi ace. 5 Q. Did you have any meetings with Mr. 6 Defer? 7 A. Mr. Defer, yeah. 8 Q. Before you took over? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Had he already left by the time 11 you got there? 12 A. Yeah. There was a gap where he 13 had left -- I believe it was like May he 14 actually left and there was an interim 15 plant manager. 16 Q. Do you remember who that was? 17 A. A gentleman by the name of Dale 18 Kline. 19 Q. Is he still around? 20 A. He is still with Solutia. 21 Q. In Anniston? 22 A. No, I take that back. He's in a 23 sales position but I think he lives in 0016 1 Oxford, Alabama, but I'm not sure. He is a 2 national sales rep. 3 Q. What is the first post hiring 4 involvement you had with PCBs in Anniston? 5 A. The first that I recall was we had 6 a meeting in St. Louis with Bob Kaley who 7 is one of our experts. I guess he would be 8 termed as an expert. And nad discussions 9 about the situation in Anniston and a 10 little bit of history of PCBs. You know, 11 even though I'm a chemist I hadn't dealt 12 necessarily in that area. 13 Q. Was that essentially your first 14 exposure to PCBs outside of the academic 15 context? 16 A. Yes. I'd like to correct that. 17 Q. Sure. Page 6 HARTOLDMON0017176 mayausky 18 A. When I was a businessman leader in 19 Pensacola we had a transformer that went 20 down and I remember us having discussions 21 about had that one been changed out, 22 because the course of action in Pensacola 23 as transformers went down we changed them 00 1 out, and that was one but that was not an 2 issue. 3 Q. I was going to ask about that 4 because Pensacola at one time had some 5 controversy around PCBs. But was that 6 completely over by the time you were there? 7 A. In fact, I only learned about 8 those controversies as a result of this - 9 what I have come to know since Anniston. 10 Q. All right. How long did your - 11 who else was present except for Mr. Kaley? 12 A. At times there were attorneys 13 present. 14 Q. In-house Monsanto attorneys or 15 outside counsel? 16 A. Outside counsel. 17 Q. From Smith Helms? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Any Lightfoot Franklin guys? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Who was it from Smith Helms that 22 was there? 23 A. I believe it was David. 00 1 Q. How long did that process take? 2 A. It was a day long meeting in St. 3 Louis. 4 Q. One day. What was your next 5 involvement then with PCBs? 6 A. Other than transitioning to work 7 and starting to talk with Robert Jones 8 about the issues and getting some turnover 9 from him as to where ne was in the process 10 of closure in the West End landfill. Bill 11 Defer came back and we had a meeting at the 12 plant with a reporter from the Anniston 13 Star and -14 Q. You and Mr. Defer and a reporter? 15 A. Yes. Bill had already had some 16 interviews with this reporter when the land 17 -- when the West End issues began to come 18 up. He had met with the reporter and we 19 felt like it was a good way for him and 20 myself to transition with the reporter with 21 me coming in and Bill going out. And we 22 were at that time updating him about 23 reacquiring the land and developing some 00 1 plans for closure for the West End 2 landfill. 3 Q. What was the reporter's name? 4 A. Shawn Riley. 5 Q. And I assume an article came out 6 of that? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. When was that? Page 7 HARTOLDMON0017177 9 A. It was September maybe, early 10 fall . 11 Q. Of '94? 12 A. Yes, sir. 13 Q. And I apologize, who was the 14 gentleman you said was the interim -- 15 A. Dale Kline. 16 Q. Okay. K-l-e-i-n? 17 A. K-l-i-n-e. 18 Q. All right. What was your next 19 involvement after the meeting with the 20 reporter ? 21 A. Probably the next major 22 involvement other than regular updates ' 23 Mr. Jones was a meeting held with ,ADEM j n 0020 1 -- don't hold me to the time. But my best 2 recollection would be November, December 3 time frame in Montgomery. We drove to 4 Montgomery, Robert Jones and I. 5 Q. Just you and Mr. Jones? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Do you remember who from ADEM was 8 there? 9 A. I remember Dan Cooper. I remember 10 -- there was a whole series of folks in 11 the room I'm trying to remember. Amy. 12 Her last names escapes me. And I believe 13 John Poole. 14 Q. Poole? 15 A. He was head of the land division 16 and came in to the meeting for a while. 17 Q. Who was the first gentleman you 18 mentioned? 19 A. Dan Cooper. 20 Q. What was the substance of the 21 meeting? 22 A. It was twofold really, to update 23 them on where we were with the 0021 1 reacquisition of the land from Alabama 2 Power, talk with them about timetables for 3 developing a remediation plan and 4 presenting it to them. 5 Q. For the West End landfill? 6 A. Yes, sir. And then to associate a 7 new plant manager so I would have a chance 8 to meet these folks. 9 Q. Was there any discussion of the 10 South landfill or any neighborhood testing? 11 A. No. I don't remember at that 12 time. I do not recall at that time having 13 any discussions about that. 14 Q. Had any neighborhood testing been 15 done up to that point? 16 A. To my recollection, no. 17 Q. What was the next involvement - 18 well, I'm sorry. Was that basically all 19 that went on at the ADEM meeting? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. What was the next milestone? 22 A. I think the next major milestone 23 was in February or March of '95 when we had Page 8 HARTOLDMON0017178 mayausky 0022 1 a remediation plan developed for the West 2 End landfill. We at that time had some 3 results from water sampling from the West 4 End landfill and the South landfill and I 5 believe we had a few soil samples on 6 ditches on our property, which showed some 7 levels of PCBs in the sediment of the 8 ditches. 9 Q. Do you remember which ditches 10 these were? 11 A. To my recollection, at that time 12 we had some from the West End landfill and 13 some from the South. Again - 14 Q. Some from ditches on or near the 15 South landfill? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. But from Monsanto property? 18 A. On our property, yes, sir. So we 19 had a meeting with them in, again to the 20 best of my recollection, probably March of 21 1995, to present those findings, to show 22 them the remediation plan for the West End 23 landfill. And I remember the outcome of 0023 1 that meeting was the consent order to do 2 the closure of the West End landfill. 3 Q. Who was at this February or March 4 meeting? 5 A. I think some of the same -- I 6 don't remember John Poole being there. I 7 think Dan Cooper was there. Amy. I'm 8 trying to think of the guy's name who was 9 head of the land division. He was the one 10 who wrote the consent order. I don't 11 remember his name right now. 12 Q. It may come to you. if it does 13 just pop it off. Were the essential 14 elements of the consent order discussed and 15 agreed upon at this meeting or how - 16 A. My recollection of it was they 17 told us typically how they handle these 18 things was to place the company under 19 consent order. We agreed to that. We 20 agreed that that would be the forward 21 course of action, that the consent order 22 would cover the main elements of closure of 23 the West End landfill according to plan, 0024 1 and at that time we had hired Garity Miller 2 to develop the plan. 3 Q. So you actually had a plan at this 4 meeting? 5 A. Yeah. 6 Q. And they said the plan is okay 7 basically? 8 A. I think we gave it -- again, my 9 recollection is we gave it to them and they 10 reviewed it. 11 Q. And they decided it was okay? 12 A. And they would draft up the 13 consent order for our signature. 14 Q. And that consent order dealt only Page 9 HARTOLDMON0017179 mayausky 15 with the West End landfill? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. But there was some discussion of 18 the South landfill and the ditches coming 19 off of the landfill? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Tell me about the discussions 22 related to the South landfill and the 23 ditches and so forth. 0025 1 A. My recollection is we had had 2 these findings of sediment in those two 3 ditches and realized that we needed to do 4 some additional sampling. The ditch ran 5 through the community. Part of the 6 property we owned, part was owned by 7 private residents. We discussed sampling 8 on our own properties and then we discussed 9 -- depending on what we found on our own 10 properties, we might need to do some 11 sampling in the private owned area. 12 Q. O'kay. I have got -- it is Exhibit 13 Number 1 to Mr. Foust's deposition -- and 14 by the way, was Mr. Foust there when you 15 got there? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Okay, And you're where the 18 mountain is? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Do you remember which ditches you 21 had some of these earlier samples from i n 22 February and March of '95? 23 A. I did not pull the samples myself. 0026 1 Q. I understand. 2 A. But as described to me, there is 3 ditch that ran off the West End landfill 4 and meandered along this side of the plant 5 along the railroad tracks. One finding is 6 in that ditch. Another finding is there 7 where a couple ditches that came off the 8 South End landfill, came along -- this is 9 202 here -- Highway 202 (indicating). 10 Q. Yes. 11 A. Came along Highway 202 and then 12 under t he highway and then meandered down 13 through the community. 14 Q. Right. 15 A. It was sampled on this side of 16 202. 17 Q. The south side of 202? 18 A. Where the ditches converged after 19 coming oi ff the south end landfill. 20 Q. So at the convergence of the 21 ditches just before they went under the 22 highway is what you think? 23 A. That's what I think, yes. 0027 1 Q. What about any to the -- what 2 would that be -- the east side over here 3 (indicating)? 4 A. I don't remember any samples. 5 Q. Okay. Do you remember how many Page 10 HARTOLDMON0017180 mayausky 6 samples there were at this convergence? 7 A. There was a grab and a composite. 8 Q. So you think just two samples? 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. Okay. Do you remember the numbers 11 by any chance? 12 A. No, I don't. I don't recall -13 Q. Not even a ball park? 14 A. Ten parts per million. 15 Q. Okay. When you were talking with 16 the ADEM people you said as a result of 17 that finding - 18 A. Uh-huh. 19 Q. -- you thought that you might need 20 to follow the ditch downstream through the 21 community? 22 A. Yes, sir. We felt that just 23 knowing that the ditch flowed down through 0028 1 there we wanted to do some sampling further 2 along the ditch. We owned -- I think the 3 map is accurate -- this section right here 4 and Monsanto owned this section right 5 here. There were portions we could sample 6 that we already owned. 7 Q. Right. 8 A. But then the ditch -- excuse me - 9 also went through some private areas that 10 we didn't own, and the discussion with ADEM 11 was to go ahead and sample on the places 12 where we had our own property access, 13 discuss with them those results and them 14 move forward if needed in sampling the 15 ditch in the privately owned areas. 16 Q. What happened next? 17 A. We did some sampling in this area 18 which would be north of 202, and we did 19 some additional sampling down in this area 20 which would be -21 Q. You're referencing further closer 22 to 10th Street? 23 A. Yes, sir. And there were some 0029 1 findings of sedimentation there and that 2 led us to conclude, well, if we're finding 3 it here and finding it there we probably 4 need to do some more extensive sampling of 5 the entire ditch. 6 Q. Did you communicate that notion to 7 ADEM? 8 A. I believe Robert Jones did, yes. 9 Q. Do you remember about when he did 10 that? 11 A. It was not very long after that 12 February, March meeting. I would say 13 April, May time frame. Maybe even sooner. 14 Q. So it didn't take you too long to 15 get the sample results back from this north 16 of 202 sample? 17 A. Not that I recall taking very long 18 but there was sedimentation samples and we 19 could catch those. They weren't water 20 samples because the ditches run dry a lot Page 11 HARTOLDMON0017181 mayausky 21 of times. 22 Q. Then what is the next thing you 23 did? 0030 1 A. Realizing that we needed to start 2 going on to properties that's when we 3 discussed that with ADEM and decided we 4 needed go out and get access from the 5 property owners in the area to come on to 6 the property and sample ditches. That's 7 when I started some door to door contact 8 with property owners in this area. 9 Q. Is it your testimony that you did 10 not take any samples from anybody's 11 property before you contacted them? 12 A. To my knowledge, we did not. 13 Q. Did you personally go door to 14 door? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. What did you tell the folks when 17 you went to their door? 18 A. I basically told them - 19 introduced myself because I was still 20 relatively new. I had only been there a 21 few months. Told them who I was with, told 22 them we needed some routine samples as 23 directed by ADEM, we had found some PCB in 0031 1 the soil and we were trying to understand 2 it and we had found it in this ditch, and 3 if I could point to the ditch and talk 4 about the ditch, I would. We would like 5 the opportunity to come in and sample on 6 that ditch perhaps on their property. And 7 I think I went out in a separate meeting - 8 not the initial contacts -- with actual 9 agreements to sign. 10 Q. Okay. Do you remembers how many 11 folks' door you knocked on? 12 A. I tried to hit everybody in the 13 neighborhood. 14 Q. Do you have a feel for how many 15 that ended up being? 16 A. I would say seventy-five percent. 17 That would be speculation. 18 Q. I mean in numbers. Ten, twenty, 19 thirty, forty? 20 A. Twenty. 21 Q. Do you remember anybody 22 specifically, anybody by name? 23 A. Uh-huh. 0032 1 Q. Tell me about the people you 2 remember by name. 3 A. I remember Mr. Nixon, Mr. and Ms. 4 Nixon who lived here. I remember -- there 5 was a lady who lived right across the 6 street in a trailer from Mr. Nixon. There 7 was Mr. Willingham who lived just up this 8 way and then his daughter lived here and 9 her name escapes me. I talked with her. A 10 lot of the houses were unoccupied but I 11 remember those four houses having specific Page 12 HARTOLDMON0017182 mayausky 12 conversations with. There was one 13 gentleman up here on the hill back further 14 up that 1 remember had a goat tied in his 15 front yard and I remember talking with him 16 out by the goat, talked with him. 17 Q. Do you remember anything 18 substantive about the conversations? 19 A. Generally what I heard was that 20 they were willing to let us in. They knew 21 of Monsanto, had been there a long time. 22 They usually hadrelatives that may have 23 worked at the facility. That was about 0033 1 it. I remember this woman right here 2 worked shifts at Tysons and I had a hard 3 time catching her and I think the first 4 time I caught her was when she was coming 5 off of midnight shift, coming off of work. 6 Q. That's somebody off of 6th Street? 7 A. Yes. The name escapes me. I had 8 contacts in that area first. 9 Q. Now, she is not actually on the 10 ditch or adjacent to the ditch? 11 A. No. 12 Q. But you wanted to get a sample 13 from her place anyway? 14 A. My reasoning was that if I was 15 going to have people go in there sampling I 16 needed to talk with them because they were 17 going to see trucks going and things like 18 that. For the same reason Iwent over here 19 and talked to these folks. 20 Q. On the west side? 21 A. I knew there was going to be a lot 22 of activity. And being the new plant 23 manager, I wanted to have a bit of outreach 0034 1 to them so I went down this street about 2 the same time. 3 Q. Did anybody from corporate suggest 4 that you do that or was that your idea to 5 actually go door to door? 6 A. I have to honestly say that I 7 can't recall whether it was my suggestion 8 but I wanted to do outreach. I can't say 9 if they 10 Q. Did anybody refuse you access? 11 A. I hesitate in answe ring because as 12 we went into the 13 process 14 Q. Later on things happened? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. I was talking about - 17 A. Initially, no. 18 Q. Had there been any lawsuits filed 19 by that Doint? 20 A. No, sir, not that I'm aware of. 21 Q. So we're in the spring of '95? 22 A. Yeah. 23 Q. About how many samples were take 0035 1 on that First -- well, let me back up. How 2 long afi 2r your going door to door -- would Page 13 HARTOLDMON0017183 mayausky 3 you say that was probably March or April? 4 A.Yes, somewhere in that time frame. 5 Q. How long after that were the 6 actual samples taken? 7 A. Within weeks of my gaining the 8 access agreements we mobilized a group to 9 go out and do that. 10 Q. Quick question. Did you only 11 sample on locations where you had a written 12 agreement as opposed to verbal? 13 A. I had to have -- my understanding 14 was I had to have a written agreement to 15 enter the property. 16 Q. Okay. What did y'all find 17 generally? 18 A. Generally, we would find -- on the 19 sampling in our own areas and in some of 20 these soil samples along the entire ditch, 21 we would find levels of PCBs around ten 22 parts per million, some higher, some 23 lower. And then we also did some sampling 0036 1 in our own area that were from the 2 flooding. We would go on the banks and on 3 the bank areas we would find PCBs also. 4 Q. When did you find -- was that when 5 y'all find the two hundred thousand parts 6 per million behind the Mars Hill Baptist 7 Church? 8 A. Yes. We found approximately in 9 this area two hundred thousand parts per 10 million. And I need to add, if I could - 11 Q. Sure. 12 A. That about this same time, I also 13 had discussions with the minister and 14 deacons of Mars Hill Baptist Church and the 15 minister of Bethel Baptist church, and the 16 reason being I know the culture of this 17 area is that the churches are looked at as 18 the center of leadership. I wanted to 19 reach out to those people as leaders of the 20 community. 21 Q. Who told you that? 22 A. That was just my experience of 23 living there and getting to know the areas. 0037 1 Q. Well, now, you had only been there 2 six or eight months? 3 A. Uh-huh. 4 Q. You're saying in six or eight 5 months you learned that the preachers were 6 the center of leadership? 7 A. Leadership of the community. I 8 won't say center of leadership but they 9 were recognized leaders of the community. 10 Q. How did you learn that? 11 A. Oh, I just -- general knowledge of 12 the area and knowing that it was a 13 religious area and that was confirmed by 14 talking with Mr. Weatherly, the pastor of 15 that church. He clearly in no uncertain 16 terms told me that he felt like he could 17 speak for the community. Page 14 HARTOLDMON0017184 mayausky 18 Q. With all due respect, when you 19 said knowing that it was a religious 20 community, did you intend to say that it 21 was an African American community? 22 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 23 MR. CLARK: Object to the form. 0038 1 Q. You can answer. 2 A. At that time I hadn't been to 3 every door so I didn't know if it was 4 African American. The ones I went to were 5 and I knew those were recognized African 6 American church. That wasn't in my mind. 7 I wanted to talk to the minister. 8 Q. What did you learn from talking to 9 the ministers? 10 A. Well, in particular with Mars Hill 11 I needed access to their property because 12 the ditch would go along their property so 13 I talked about gaining access. I had them 14 sign an access agreement. They wished to 15 understand further after we sampled what 16 the plans would be if we had findings. 17 They invited me to come and talk to their 18 entire deacon group at that time and that 19 was about all I remember. 20 Q. Did you tell anybody about any 21 health effects or potential or alleged 22 health effects of PCBs? 23 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 0039 1 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Let me just 2 rephrase it in light of the objection. Did 3 you talk to any of these folks, either the 4 residents or the preachers, about health 5 effects of PCB exposure? 6 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 7 Same question. 8 THE WITNESS: No. What I did was 9 I consulted with our own internal 10 scientists. I'm not a health expert so I 11 didn't know. 12 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Who did you 13 consult with? 14 A. Dr. Kaley. 15 Q. That's all? 16 A. At that time when I met with the 17 preachers. 18 Q. All right. 19 A. Was told by Dr. Kaley that there 20 weren't health effects. I was also told - 21 because we were in the process of bringing 22 in some external experts to look over the 23 situation, and I told them we would be 0040 1 having these people out to look it over, 2 but where I was now I didn't know of any 3 health effects but I was clear in telling 4 them that I'm not a medical doctor. I'm a 5 chemist. 6 Q. Did they seem to have any 7 knowledge of PCBs before you brought it to 8 their attention? Page 15 HARTOLDMON0017185 mayausky 9 A. The folks in Mars Hill didn't seem 10 to -- Reverend -- gosh, I'm trying to 11 think of his name. 12 Q. The Bethel preacher? 13 A. Yeah. He did. He had read the 14 Shawn Riley article. Reverend Weatherly 15 actually lived in Birmingham so I don't 16 think he was as attuned to the newspapers 17 as he might have been. I don't know. 18 Q. What you're saying in this Shawn 19 Riley article there had been mention of 20 potential health effects? 21 A. There were mention of the findings 22 of the fish levels in Chocalocca Creek, and 23 there were some discussion about the health 0041 1 effects of PCBs in this article. 2 Q. So other than the Anniston Star 3 newspaper article, did anybody seem to have 4 any knowledge of PCBs, what they are, what 5 their effects might be or anything about 6 PCBs? 7 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 8 THE WITNESS: Not in those initial 9 meetings. In a later meeting where I 10 visited with Mr. Nixon who lived here, he 11 had a special question about his vegetable 12 garden, could he eat his vegetables. By 13 that time we had already had Dr. Kimbrough 14 come so Dr. Kaley funneled that question to 15 her. Her answer which I conveyed back to 16 Mr. Nixon was as long as the vegetables are 17 washed there should be no concern. 18 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Now, we're 19 getting a little bit out of sequence 20 chronologically speaking, but I'm trying to 21 move as fast as I can. Did Dr. Kimbrough 22 actually come to Anniston? 23 A. Yes, sir. 0042 1 Q. When was that? 2 A. I would say to the best of my 3 recollection May time frame of '95. 4 Q. Did you meet her? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. What did she do while she was 7 here? 8 A. She met with us at the plant, 9 reviewed the data, samples up to that time, 10 and then she went out with Mr. Jones and 11 I'm not sure who else and walked the area, 12 and I believe she even talked to some of 13 the neighborhood people who were out there. 14 Q. Were you with her on the walk 15 through? 16 A. No, sir, I was not. I had other 17 things I had to do. 18 Q. What did she say -- to your 19 knowledge, what did she say about health 20 effects from PCB exposure? 21 A. Well, in the levels that we were 22 seeing in these ditches, what she said was 23 that there were no routes of exposure so Page 16 HARTOLDMON0017186 mayausky she was not concerned about health effects. 2 Q. Anything else you remember about 3 health effects that she might have said? 4 A. No. 5 Q. What happened next? 6 MR. NEWSOM: I know you're trying 7 to move -- I mean something that was a 8 significant PCB as opposed -9 Q. (By Mr. Wright) What is the next 10 significant thing that sticks in your mind 11 about PCBs in Anniston? I'm trying to skip 12 over as much as I can. Obviously, the kind 13 of structure of the deposition for your and 14 my benefit - 15 A. Yes, sir. 16 Q. I'm focusing on PCBs in Anniston, 17 Alabama, and the significant events that 18 occurred with relation to PCBs in 19 Anniston. 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. What is the nextsignificant thing 22 23 A. The next significant event I 00 1 remember is that we started to find it in 2 areas prone to flooding. We realized that 3 this area down here was flooding because 4 there was a restriction as the ditch went 5 under 10th Street. 6 Q. The area close to 10th Street is 7 the area you're talking about where the 8 dots are scattered out? 9 A. Yes. This area was prone to 10 flooding and we needed to come down in here 11 and do some sampling also. So my next 12 significant event was to start door to door 13 contacts in and around this area. 14 Q. That's the 8th to 10th Street 15 area? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. Do you remember anything about 18 those contacts? 19 A. Again, I went door to door trying 20 to reach people. By this time I had 21 already talked to Bethel Baptist Church so 22 it was like an ongoing conversation there. 23 I remember talking to Mrs. Neeley who lived 00 1 right on the corner directly across from 2 the church. 3 Q. Do you remember anything about 4 that conversation? 5 A. I do remember that she told me 6 that she had lived there a long time. She 7 owned the house next door. Her sister 8 lived in that house. She told me she used 9 to run a beauty shop and I was never clear 10 whether it was in her home or in the house 11 next door. She told me the name of the 12 family that is sort of across the street 13 right here, and there was a lady who lived 14 there with several children and the name Page 17 HARTOLDMON0017187 mayausky 15 escapes me right now, but I did eventually 16 meet with them. And that's about the 17 course of that conversation that I recall. 18 Q. Okay. You don't remember anything 19 else about the conversation with Ms. 20 Neeley? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Was she nice? 23 A. Yes, very nice. 0046 1 Q. Do you remember anybody else you 2 talked to down in that area? 3 A. Yes. I remember Dessa Ruse. I 4 think she was down here. I remember 5 talking with her. And there was a Mr. 6 Wright, who rented the house to his son 7 about here (indicating). 8 Q. Let me - 9 A. Uh-huh. 10 Q. What do you remember about the 11 conversation with Ms. Ruse? Do you 12 remember anything? 13 A. Generally the same things, that 14 she had lived there. We would like to come 15 in and sample and have an access 16 agreement. I remember telling her that one 17 or the reasons we wanted to sample was 18 because of potential flooding and she told 19 me she had had flooding around her house 20 and around her yard. 21 Q. Did either she or Ms. Neeley or 22 any of these people around here indicate 23 any knowledge of what PCBs are or potential 0047 1 health effects from exposure to PCBs? 2 A. I don't remember Ms. Neely asking 3 me. I remember Ms. Ruse asking me 4 something about health effects, and at that 5 time if I recall correctly we had already 6 had Dr. Kimbrough come out, and I told her 7 that I wasn't a health expert but we were 8 hearing from our own internal expert that 9 wasn't a problem and I could get her a name 10 and a number if she needed it to talk to 11 somebody. 12 Q. Did she seem to accept that? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Any other conversations you 15 remember with the folks down in that area? 16 A. I also started talking -- because 17 we started to get down close to the 18 commercial properties, I went to Mr. Hinds 19 at the pawnshop and the guy at 10th Street 20 21 Q. I'm not going to ask you about 22 those conversations. 23 A. Okay. 0048 1 Q. Any other conversations with 2 residents that you remember? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Okay. What is the next 5 significant thing that sticks out in your Page 18 HARTOLDMON0017188 mayausky 6 memory? 7 A. The next significant thing is when 8 we began -9 Q. I apologize. When was this area 10 when you started walking this 10th Street 11 area? 12 A. Juneish. Again, I'm a little 13 fuzzy about that time. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. We then got our samples -- our 16 access agreements and did some sampling and 17 found PCBs both in the ditches in that area 18 and in the areas prone to flooding, and 19 realized that we would have to do a project 20 to control that sedimentation -- that was 21 in consult with Garity Miller. 22 Q. Who were your primary contacts at 23 Garity and Miller? 00 1 A. I didn't have a lot of direct 2 contacts. It was mainly Mr. Jones and Mr. 3 Foust who had those contacts. The next 4 significant thing after that would have 5 been going to ADEM again, sharing the 6 results that we found. 7 Q. When was that meeting? 8 A. To the best of my recollection, 9 June, July of '95. 10 Q. Was this the first time that ADEM 11 had been made aware of the findings? 12 A. No. I believe Robert Jones was 13 keeping them consulted all along as we were 14 getting the results back. So we went to 15 them -16 Q. Went to Montgomery again? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. You and Mr. Jones? 19 A. Yes. And I think Bob Kaley came 20 in that time. He came in from St. Louis. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. And we talked about the need to 23 develop a sedimentation pond in that area. 00 1 It was becoming obvious to us that we had 2 to do something -- I say sedimentation 3 pond. We had to develop some means to stop 4 the sedimentation. One was a pond. 5 Q. Was that Garity and Miller's 6 proposal? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And that's what you talked to ADEM 9 about was creating a retention pond? 10 A. Yes. And Garity and Miller then 11 went to work to develop several proposals 12 for us for that pond and some of them were 13 entirely utilizing our property, some of 14 them were proposals that would require 15 property where people lived and it was 16 about that time that we began to have 17 discussions about the property purchase 18 program. 19 Q. When you say you began to have 20 discussions, were you talking about that Page 19 HARTOLDMON0017189 mayausky 21 among yourselves or with ADEM? 22 A. We told ADEM that would be 23 something we would look at, yes. 0051 1 Q. Did ADEM suggest that you ought to 2 do property purchases? 3 A. I don't recall them suggesting 4 it. I mean kind of what I recall is he 5 said we had these various proposals, could 6 we build a pond that would be adequate 7 enough on our own property and if not we 8 might have to buy -- and go forward with 9 some sort of - 10 Q. All right. Tell me how those - 11 well, what happened next? 12 A. We began to hone in on what the 13 course of action was. My next significant 14 event I remember was Garity Miller came up 15 with three proposals and I had a meeting 16 with Mars Hill at their request to look 17 over those proposals. That was the entire 18 deacons minus the minister. We hadn't even 19 finalized the proposal yet but I was trying 20 to share with them what might occur and I 21 wanted to be clear with them that one 22 possibility was we might want to talk with 23 them about relocation of the church. 0052 1 Q. All right. Do you remember -- I 2 assume that meeting probably sticks out in 3 your mind? 4 A. Yes, it does. 5 Q. What do you remember about that 6 meeting? Well, first of all, when was that 7 meeting? 8 A. Best of my recollection, June, 9 July time frame. 10 Q. What do you remember about that? 11 A. There were eight or nine deacons 12 there. I remember Mr. Bowie, Mr. Freeman. 13 Those are the only two names I really 14 remember. I had more contact with them 15 than anybody else and I remember laying out 16 the varies plans for them and trying to let 17 them see as much like we have this laid out 18 here (indicating), and saying this is one 19 proposal and it is all on our property. It 20 would be next to the church. This is 21 another proposal that we might need a 22 larger sedimentation pond. It encompasses 23 the church property so we might need to 0053 1 talk with these guys about relocating the 2 church. I remember them telling me they 3 were willing to work with us, both on the 4 relocation of the church and if we needed 5 their church to have any community meetings 6 that we could use their facility, and that 7 was about the course of that. 8 Q. Was there any discussion of 9 potential health effects at that meeting? 10 A. Not that I recall. 11 Q. Were they cooperative and Page 20 HARTOLDMON0017190 mayausky 12 friendly? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. What is the next thing you 15 remember? 16 A. Honing in on a pond that requires 17 some of this land, telling them right up 18 front that this is our proposal but we're 19 going to move forward with this property 20 purchase plan. 21 Q. This was another meeting with 22 ADEM? 23 A. I don't think I went to that one, 0054 1 to be honest with you. 2 Q. Do you remember when that one was 3 generally? 4 A. No. And I remember beginning to 5 teach us about the Monsanto purchase plan 6 program and how it would be conducted. 7 Q. Can yougive me a shorthand 8 version on what they taught you? 9 A. That we should clearly define the 10 area that we wanted to target for 11 purchasing, that we should make it 12 available to all the residents in that 13 area, that it would be a program that would 14 have appraised values of the houses plus a 15 premium, and there would be allocation for 16 moving expenses, lawyers' fees, and there 17 would be also a program for anybody who 18 happened to rent in the area and it applied 19 to vacant lots and occupied houses. 20 Q. What discussions do you remember 21 about the area to be encompassed by the 22 property purchase program? 23 A. I remember very clearly because it 0055 1 stuck out in my mind, they said in their 2 experience in conducting these programs it 3 was sometimes more difficult to define the 4 area because generally they were very 5 popular which I was surprised at -- no 6 experience -- and generally if we chose a 7 street or some boundary to cut off on that 8 you always heard from the people right next 9 door what about us. So they said be sure 10 you have a logical reason to draw your 11 boundaries, and that's what we tried to do. 12 Q. What was the boundary and what was 13 the logical reason behind it? 14 A. The logical reason, this being a 15 low - 16 Q. By this, you had your hand - 17 A. To the east of the plant west of 18 Montrose because as you go up Montrose it 19 rises quite a bit, probably a good fifty 20 foot rise up to those hills. As our data 21 started coming in from the sampling we 22 began to realize that we were having PCBs 23 where there was potential for flooding. So 0056 1 you find it from Clydesdale to this side of 2 Montrose, 10th to 202, all residential Page 21 HARTOLDMON0017191 mayausky 3 properties in that area. 4 Q. What is the next thing you 5 remember? 6 A. Mobilizing Prudential to come on 7 the plant. They actually had a trailer set 8 up in that time. And the most significant 9 event I remember next was the early October 10 community meetings held -- can I back up? 11 Q. Sure. 12 A. I went door to door with invites 13 to community meetings to be held at Mars 14 Hill Church and Bethel Baptist Church. 15 Q. What do you mean by community 16 meetings? 17 A. Community meeting - 18 Q. Actually let me stop you. I 19 assume those were discussed at some length 20 at your other depositions. Is that a fair 21 assumption? 22 A. Yes, sir. 23 Q. What do you remember after the 0057 1 community meetings? 2 A. This was late '95. 3 Q. Right. October '95 where you're 4 talking - 5 A. The property purchase program just 6 started to take its course. I was not in 7 ready contact with the community at that 8 time. People were going over and 9 Prudential was handling the logistics of 10 meeting with people. I would get updates 11 as to whether people were accepting the 12 offer and things like that. 13 Q. During this time period was any 14 actual work going on? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. What work was going on? 17 A. The closing of this West End 18 landfill. That work was proceeding. 19 Q. The plan you said was approved in 20 February or March of '95? 21 A. (Witness nods head.) 22 Q. Is that when the work started 23 generally? 0058 1 A. I remember it being a very rainy 2 season and that project was delayed by 3 rain, so it probably started up in June, 4 July, time frame. 5 Q. What else? Was there any other 6 work going on before October other than 7 work at the West End landfill? 8 A. That's all I recall. 9 Q. After October what's the next 10 thing? 11 A. The next significant event I 12 believe the lawsuits started. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. We were notified of lawsuits on 15 behalf of -- we were also working with the 16 churches for relocation and I think the - 17 I'm getting fuzzy here but I remember the Page 22 HARTOLDMON0017192 mayausky 18 -- I think the first one was the Mars Hill 19 suit came in, and that's what started all 20 this. 21 Q. Okay. Then, after the lawsuits 22 what is the next thing -- significant thing 23 that occurred or that you remember? 0059 1 A. At that time it was Robert Jones 2 and I pretty much at the plant, and I went 3 to corporate. This is getting larger. We 4 couldn't manage this project. I asked 5 specifically for corporate help and that's 6 about the time Allen Foust moved in. 7 Q. Let me ask you, Mr. Moore had been 8 present at your meeting with Mr. Kaley. I 9 mean lawsuits were certainly a 10 possibility. 11 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 12 Q. (By Mr. Wright) In your mind if 13 nowhere else? 14 MR. NEWSOM: That's calling for 15 sheer speculation on his part at that 16 time. 17 MR. WRIGHT: It's not 18 speculation. It's common sense. I'm just 19 asking. 20 THE WITNESS: Lawsuits pending and 21 we were talking about general PCB issues. 22 And my predecessor was named on the 23 lawsuits. 0060 1 Q. (By Mr. Wright) This may not have 2 any significance but just out of curiosity 3 is it really your honest testimony that you 4 didn't have any inkling of the possibility 5 of a lawsuit once the off site 6 contamination results started coming in? 7 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 8 THE WITNESS: I'm not an 9 attorney. I won't say never possibly. You 10 can be sued for anything so, yeah, it is a 11 possibility. 12 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Had you had any 13 other contact with either Mr. Moore or 14 Monsanto's in-house attorneys regarding PCB 15 issues between -- I'm not asking you tne 16 substance. I'm just asking you have you 17 had any other contact with them between the 18 Kaley, Moore meeting and the filing of the 19 lawsuits in the fall? 20 A. We had regular conversations. My 21 main contact was Dr. Kaley. 22 Q. And hewas in contact with the 23 attorneys as far as you knew? 0061 1 A. As far as I knew. 2 Q. Okay.After October andafter the 3 lawsuits, what is the next thing that 4 sticks out in your mind relating to the 5 PCBs in Anniston? 6 A. Well, two things. I started to 7 say earlier that Allen Foust came on board 8 in a full-time position to focus on this. Page 23 HARTOLDMON0017193 mayausky 9 My involvement began to be minimized not 10 only because of Allen's involvability but 11 also because in the suits that were filed 12 by one attorney I was told not to talk to 13 anybody. I mean we would get regular lists 14 of people that we weren't allowed to 15 communicate with, and it was getting into 16 hundreds of people and I literally didn't 17 know who I could talk to and who I 18 couldn't. So I guess I just stopped any 19 kind of community contact because I didn't 20 know if I was going to violate that 21 agreement or not. 22 Q. Mr. Stewart asked you not to talk 23 to anybody on the list? 0062 1 A. Yeah. Well, the list was always 2 growing. We would get additions every 3 week. 4 Q. That takes care of the talking to 5 everybody. What about the doing? We 6 talked about the West End landfill and that 7 work. What is the next work that began to 8 be done? 9 A. Really we did the property 10 purchase program, found out what we 11 required. Allen Foust was closer to the 12 details at this point. And we went to ADEM 13 for approval of that plan and at a meeting 14 with ADEM, then, we were placed under a 15 consent order to do sampling in these areas 16 north of the railroad tracks. 17 Q. That's the north drainage ditch - 18 A. And this area down in here. I 19 think they always refer to it as Area A, I 20 think it was, if I recall correctly. And 21 to do sampling down in there and sampling 22 over on Zinn Parkway and I think sampling 23 over here at the eastside of the 0063 1 landfill. There were several different 2 areas that were defined that ADEM asked us 3 to investigate. 4 Q. Wny did ADEM ask you to sample at 5 the east edge of the landfill? 6 MR. NEWSOM: if you know. 7 THE WITNESS: I really don't 8 know. All of these areas I was not clear 9 on why we were being asked to sample. 10 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Who would know 11 about why you were asked to sample over 12 here to the east of the south landfill? 13 A. ADEM for sure. But if Allen 14 knows, I don't really know, Allen Foust. 15 Q. Okay. All right. What else? 16 What next? 17 A. That was -- by that time we were 18 into '96 and the work began to progress - 19 well, we -- I guess the next significant 20 event was the EPA held a meeting in 21 Anniston in which ATSDR attended, ADEM 22 attended, we attended. 23 Q. Who, what was the first one you Page 24 HARTOLDMON0017194 mayausky 0064 1 sai d? 2 A. ATSDR. At that time it was clear 3 that Alabama Public Health was going to 4 start the reachout to the residents 5 themselves, house testing of dust and blood 6 testing of people and they handled the 7 series of meetings at the two churches and 8 offered that to the residents in the area. 9 Q. Did you go to the meetings? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Did you speak? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Okay. What next? 14 A. The blood testing proceeded and 15 the next significant event I remember is we 16 acquired land and we started to clear some 17 of the land, really just the work began to 18 prepare for the sedimentation plan. And 19 then we're into '97, and I left in April of 20 '97. 21 Q. Is that basically the end of the 22 story from your perspective? 23 A. I have been back to Anniston just 0065 1 to visit but I have now moved on to other 2 duties so -3 Q. By coming back to visit -- well, 4 you came back for your depositions, I 5 guess. 6 A. Well, I actually had a corporate 7 meeting one time in Anniston. 8 Q. What was the corporate meeting on? 9 A. It was a meeting of all the plant 10 managers around the company. Anniston 11 turns out to be a pretty good place for us 12 to have that meeting because we have a lot 13 of facilities that people can drive from in 14 Alabama. We had a plant manager summit at 15 Anniston. 16 Q. When was that? 17 A. I really don't recall. 18 Q. Did the subject of PCBs and PCB 19 pollution in the Anniston area come up at 20 the meeting? 21 A. By that time they were done with 22 the West End landfill, and the South End 23 landfill was I think at that time in 0066 1 progress of being recapped. 2 Q. All right. So that is one visit. 3 Any other visits to Anniston? 4 A. Other than like you said, a 5 deposition where I think I just went in and 6 came back out. 7 Q. So, that is the end of your 8 involvement with Anniston other than giving 9 depositions? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. I want to go back and make sure 12 that I have exhausted your recollection. 13 Are there any other conversations with 14 residents in the east side neighborhood or Page 25 HARTOLDMON0017195 mayausky 15 for that matter the north neighborhood that 16 you had that related to PCBs that we have 17 not talked about? 18 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 19 THE WITNESS: I talked to a lot of 20 people. 21 Q. I know you did. 22 A. But there is nothing that I recall 23 specifically that stands out in my mind. 0067 1 Q. Apparently you are going to be 2 called by Monsanto to testify at trial and 3 I don't want to be surprised by you coming 4 in and saying, you know, I remember a 5 conversation I had with Ms. Mims where she 6 said, you know, Monsanto is a bunch of egg 7 sucking such and such or anything. I just 8 don't want to be surprised. That's why I'm 9 asking you that kind of a broad general 10 question, if there is any other 11 conversations or for that matter 12 observations that really stick out in your 13 mind relating to residences or people over 14 here on the east side of the plant. 15 MR. NEWSOM: Well, Larry, if he 16 recalls any other conversations, which he 17 may do between now and then who knows, 18 we'll certainly share those with you. 19 MR. WRIGHT: Just give me a heads 20 up. 21 MR. NEWSOM: Observations is a 22 little vague. 23 MR. WRIGHT: if it is in the Mars 0068 1 Hill deposition I'll read it. I just don't 2 want something brand new coming out, you 3 know. I don't want him saying, you know - 4 I don't know what all he could say. I saw, 5 you know, Ms. Mims -- well, the new theory 6 is that Ms. Mims somehow hauled field dirt 7 in to her property. I don't want him to 8 say I saw Ms. Mims with a wheelbarrow 9 spreading PCBs around the property. 10 MR. NEWSOM: Did you see Ms. Mims 11 with a wheelbarrow? 12 THE WITNESS: No, I did not. The 13 only thing that jumps in my mind, I think 14 it is already in the deposition, was after 15 Mars Hill filed their lawsuit, I remember 16 them holding their Easter egg hunt on our 17 property over here which I thought was 18 quite strange -19 Q. (By Mr. Wright) There wasn't a 20 fence? 21 A. No. There was a section here that 22 was unfenced (indicating). 23 Q. A section on the side of 0069 1 Clydesdale that was unfenced? 2 A. The only reason I knew about that 3 it was a Sunday afternoon and I was playing 4 golf and I got a phone call at the golf 5 course that there was a bunch of people on Page 26 HARTOLDMON0017196 mayausky 6 our property, and by the time I had left 7 the golf course and got there they had 8 gone, but the chief operator called me and 9 said, I went out to see what they were 10 doing and they were having an Easter egg 11 hunt. That was just kind of strange to me. 12 Q. Do you think that might have been 13 because they had two hundred thousand parts 14 per million PCBs on their property and over 15 here y'all had brand new clean dirt on top 16 of your old limestone pit? 17 A. No. Actually what they told me 18 was they had used it for years. They had 19 always used this land as their Easter egg 20 hunt and I was just surprised that they did 21 it again after suing us. It was just a 22 shock to me. 23 MR. NEWSOM: Nobody knows where 0070 1 the Easter bunny is going to - 2 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Who told you that 3 they had done it for years? 4 A. It was either Mr. Bowie or 5 Weatherly. 6 Q. When did he -- so you don't 7 remember who told you that but it was you 8 think either Mr. Bowie or Reverend 9 Weatherly? 10 A. It was Reverend Weatherly because 11 I remember him saying they always used our 12 field for Easter eggs. 13 Q. When did ne say that? 14 A. At one of the first meetings I had 15 with him. 16 Q. That was before you saw them doing 17 the Easter egg hunt? 18 A. Oh, yeah. 19 Q. He had told you that -- this is 20 when you first told him about PCBs? 21 A. Yes, sir. He told me -- when I 22 introduced myself as Monsanto, he said 23 Monsanto has always been a good neighbor, 0071 1 you have allowed us to use your field for 2 our Easter egg hunt. 3 Q. Okay. Anything else? 4 A. No. That's all I recall. 5 Q. And no other conversations that 6 you recall? 7 A. None that stand out in my mind. 8 Again, I would qualify that by saying I 9 talked to a lot of people. 10 Q. I understand. Did you ever hear 11 any reason why there had not been testing 12 of these ditches up here on the north side 13 of -- I mean on the south side of 202 14 before February of '95? 15 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 16 THE WITNESS: In conversations 17 with Robert Jones these were traditionally 18 not used, were not used for PCB waste. 19 Q. I'm sorry? 20 A. These were not used as cells for Page 27 HARTOLDMON0017197 mayausky 21 PCB waste. 22 Q. Who told you that? 23 A. Mr. Jones. 0072 1 Q. Did he tell you what the source of 2 his understanding of that was? 3 MR. NEWSOM: Gene Jesse told you. 4 MR. WRIGHT: Gene Jesse total me 5 that they were used for PCBs. 6 MR. NEWSOM: No, he didn't. 7 MR. WRIGHT: And there is a memo 8 from 1970 saying that they found raw PCBs 9 in that same area at about eleven thousand 10 parts per million. 11 MR. NEWSOM: That's not what Gene 12 Jessee told you. 13 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Nobody ever told 14 you that they had found PCBs in the ditches 15 leading off of that landfill in 1970 at 16 many thousands of parts per million? 17 A. No, sir. 18 MR. WRIGHT: Well, I've got a 19 whole lot more questions and but you've got 20 to catch a plane. 21 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Let me just ask 22 you a cleanup question. Other than what we 23 have already talked about, is there 0073 1 anything else that you believe that you 2 would be able to or that -- well, let me 3 ask it this way - 4 MR. NEWSOM: Just a suggestion. 5 You might want to ask him because you 6 hadn't read the depo whether he feels like 7 between what you have done and taking Mars 8 Hill, he has been asked everything he 9 knows. I was just making a suggestion. 10 THE WITNESS: Actually that's what 11 I was going to answer, if you have read my 12 depos, I think you've exhausted my 13 knowledge of this. 14 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Again, I just 15 want to make sure that I'm not going to be 16 surprised. Can you think of anything that 17 you could reasonably tell a jury here in 18 Birmingham about PCBs in Anniston that you 19 haven't already either told me or - 20 A. Testified. 21 Q. -- talked about in the Mars Hill 22 depositions? 23 MR. NEWSOM: Object to form. 0074 1 THE WITNESS: NO. 2 MR. WRIGHT: All right.. Thank 3 you, sir. A 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Page 28 HARTOLDMON0017198 mayausky 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 00 1 CERTIFICATE 2 3 STATE OF ALABAMA 4 JEFFERSON COUNTY 5 6 I hereby certify that the above 7 and foregoing deposition was taken down by 8 me in stenotype, and the questions and 9 answers thereto were reduced to typewriting 10 under my supervision, and that the 11 foregoing represents a true and correct 12 transcript of the deposition given by said 13 witness upon said hearing. 14 I further certify that I am 15 neither of counsel nor of kin to the 16 parties to the action, nor am I in anywise 17 interested in the result of said cause. 18 19 20 21 Donna Armstrong 22 23 00 1 2 JACK S. MAYAUSKY 3 4 5 INSTRUCTION TO THE WITNESS 6 PLEASE READ YOUR DEPOSITION OVER 7 CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU SIGN IT. YOU SHOULD 8 MAKE ALL YOUR CHANGES ON THE ATTACHED 9 ERRATA SHEET. PLEASE DO NOT MARK ON THE 10 ORIGINAL DEPOSITION. 11 AFTER MAKING ANY CHANGES WHICH YOU 12 HAVE NOTED ON THE ATTACHED ERRATA SHEET, 13 SIGN YOUR NAME ON THE ERRATA SHEET AND DATE 14 IT. 15 THEN SIGN YOUR DEPOSITION AT THE 16 END OF YOUR TESTIMONY IN THE SPACE 17 PROVIDED. YOU ARE SIGNING IT SUBJECT TO THE 18 CHANGES YOU HAVE MADE ON THE ERRATA SHEET, 19 WHICH WILL BE ATTACHED TO THE DEPOSITION. 20 RETURN THE ORIGINAL ERRATA SHEET 21 AND TRANSCRIPT TO FOSHEE & TURNER, SUITE 22 220 PARK PLACE TOWER, 2001 PARK PLACE 23 NORTH, BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203. 00 1 ACCORDING TO RULES OF CIVIL 2 PROCEDURE, YOU WILL HAVE THIRTY (30) DAYS Page 29 HARTOLDMON0017199 mayausky 3 FROM THE DATE YOU RECEIVE THIS DEPOSITION 4 IN WHICH TO READ, SIGN AND RETURN YOUR 5 DEPOSITION TO THE ABOVE OFFICE. IF YOU 6 FAIL TO DO SO, YOU AUTOMATICALLY WAIVE YOUR 7 RIGHT TO MAKE ANY CORRECTIONS TO YOUR 8 DEPOSITION. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 0078 1 PAGE LINE EXPLANATION 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 DEPONENT'S SIGNATURE 21 22 23 DATE 0079 1 2 3 JACK S. MAYAUSKY 4 5 6 SIGNATURE PAGE 7 8 OF 9 10 JACK S. MAYAUSKY 11 12 13 I HEREBY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I HAVE 14 READ THE FOREGOING DEPOSITION AND THAT THE 15 SAME IS A TRUE AND CORRECT TRANSCRIPTION 16 OF THE ANSWERS GIVEN BY ME TO THE 17 QUESTIONS PROPOUNDED, EXCEPT FOR THE Page 30 HARTOLDMONO017200 18 19 20 21 22 23 0080 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 CHANGES, IF ANY, ERRATA SHEET. SIGNATURE: DATE: NOTED ON mayausky THE ATTACHED Page 31 HARTOLDMONO017201