Document OEQVN5NgrDwx1jaqr04jz9Rqe
i n r x tai x is d states d is t &i c t c o o t SOOTHES DISTRICT <7 WEST TZECTdlA
Cam BSTOM , WEST V1BOIBU
JAMBS M. ADKXBS, A d alD lstB ito c )
o f d a B atata o f Ralph B. A d k io i,)
Dacaasad, a t a l ,
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) P lain tiffs, )
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MGHSAHTO CCKFAHY, Corporation,
) ) Ho, 81-2098 )
) )
) D afondant, )
D apooltion of GKRE L* JSS32 tafean gd boh a l f o f tfca
P lain tiffs.
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R f tp o r ttr : M. Joy S p r l n g t r
J a m es M ay R epo rtin g S ervice
CER TIFIED SHO RTHAND REPORTERS R.fl. 2 - BOX 65
EDWARDSVILLE, ILLINOIS 62025
*' >1821
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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF WEST VIRGINIA
CHARLESTON, WEST VIRGINIA
JAMES M. ADKINS, A d m in is tra to r o f the E sta te of Ralph E. A dkins, Deceased, e t a l,
P lain tiffs,
vs.
MONSANTO COMPANY, a D elaw are C orporation,
D efendant,
) ) ) ) ) ) ) No. 81-2098
) ) ) ) )
APPEARANCES:
M essrs. C a lw e ll, McCormick & P e y to n , by W. S t u a r t C a lw e ll, J r , , E s q .
M essrs. Bowles, McDavid, G raff & Love, by P. M ichael P lesk a, Esq. and Deborah A. Sink and John Wooda, Esq.
For P la in tiffs , For Defendant.
IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED by and betw een counsel fo r the p la in tif f s and counsel fo r the defendant t h a t th e d e p o s itio n o f GENE L. JESS EE may be ta k e n pur** su an t to Rule 26(a) of the F ed eral Rules of C iv il Proc e d u re , on J u ly 11, 1983, a t th e R a d isso n H o te l, Room 215, 9th S tre e t and Convention P laz a, S t. L ouis, M isso u ri,
JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
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1 b e f o r e M. JOY SPRINGER, a N o ta ry P u b lic w ith in and f o r
/ 2 th e C ounty/of Madison, S ta te of I l l i n o i s ; th a t the 3 is s u a n c e Of n o tic e and dedimus i s w aived, and t h a t t h i s
4 d e p o s itio n may be ta k en w ith th e same f o rc e and e f f e c t
5 as i f a l l F ederal ru le s and s ta tu to ry requirem ents had
6 been com plied w ith .
7 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED t h a t an y
8 and a l l objections to a l l or any p a rt of th is d ep o sitio n ,
9 e x c e p t o b je c tio n s a s to form o f th e q ie s tio n s a s k e d or- '
10 an sw ers g iv e n , a r e h ereb y r e s e rv e d and may be r a i s e d
11 on th e t r i a l o f t h i s c a u s e ; and t h a t th e s i g n a tu r e o f
12 th e d ep o n e n t i s n o t w aived.
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16 GENE L, JESSEE 17 p ro d u c e d , sworn and exam ined on b e h a lf o f th e p l a i n t i f f s , 18 d ep o ses an d sa y s a s fo llo w s : 19 EXAMINATION 20 BY MR. CALWELL: 21 (Whereupon th e r e p o r t e r nark ed P l a i n 22 t i f f s 1 D eposition E x h ib it #304 (Monsanto 23 #232571 th ro u g h 232574) c o n s i s t i n g o f 4 24 p ag e s; and E x h ib it #305 (Monsanto #233618 25 and #233619) c o n s is tin g o f 2 p ag es, f o r th e
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purposes of id e n tific a tio n ,) ;'Q (By Mr. C a lw e ll) Would you s t a t e your nam e,pleas*
A Gene Lee J e s s e e , Q And y o u 1r e employed by th e M onsanto Company? A Yes. Q Here in S t. Louis? A Yes. Q What is your a d d re ss? A The Monsanto ad d ress? Q No. Your re s id e n c e a d d re s s . A 447 Magna C a rta , i t ' s two w o rd s, S t. L ouis, M issouri, 63140. Q What is your p o s itio n w ith Monsanto Company? A I'm D irecto r of R egulatory Management on th e C o rp o rate E n v iro n m en tal P o lic y S t a f f . Q And w hat i s your e d u c a tio n ? A I have a Bachelor of Science Degree in Chemical E ngineering, Q What sc h o o l d id you go to ? A U n iv ersity of Houston, Q Did you do any p o s t-g ra d u a te work? A Yes.
JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE1
Q Did you g e t a Degree? \ 7 a No .
Q . What d id you do in p o s t-g ra d u a te work? A Chemical E n g in eerin g . Q Is th a t th e same p la c e ? A No. W ashington U n iv e rs ity , S t. L ouis. Q When d id you s t a r t t o work f o r M onsanto? A O ctober, 1953. Q Wes t h a t s h o r t l y a f t e r you g ra d u a te d from co lleg e? A No. T hat'B a f t e r I got out o f s e r v ic e . Q Did you work f o r a n y o th e r c h e m ic a l company b esid es Monsanto? A No. Q And where d id you go to work f o r M onsanto? A A t w hat was th en M onsanto, I l l i n o i s . Q Sauget? A Yeah, Sauget. Q Did ycu go to work a s ach em ical e n g in e e r? A Yes. Q When you w ere a t M onsanto, I l l i n o i s , now S au g et P l a n t , d id you work w ith a n y h e r b ic id e s ? A Yes. Q Was t h a t in "53? A No, i t w a s n 't in '53* O ff and on between
JAMES MAY REPO RTING SERVICE
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1 53 and ' 61. 2 : Q What h e r b ic id e s d id you work w ith ?
3 A 2,4-D .
4 Q What w ere you d oing w ith 2,4-D?
5 A The f i r s t th in g I d id was I se rv e d a s
6 a r e l i e f foreman in the P roduction Departm ent fo r a
7 summer. The second tim e aro u n d I was A s s i s t a n t E n g in e e r
8 ing Superintendent in the T echnical Service Departm ent,
9 and th e p ro c e ss improvem ent work in t h a t a r e a camftr ^:*, .
10 un d er ray g ro u p ,
.; *
11 Q P ro c ess im provem ent, t h a t was T e h n ic a l
12 S e rv ic e s t h a t to o k c a re o f t h a t s o r t o f th in g ?
13 A Y es.
14 Q Did you do an y w ork w ith 2 ,4 ,5 -T ?
15 A No.
16 Q I s t h a t m a n u fa c tu rin g f a c i l i t y known
17 as S auget?
18 A No. I t ' s th e W. G. Xrutnmrich P l a n t . 19 Q How lo n g w ere you a t th e Xrummrich P la n t? 20 A From O ctober o f *53 u n t i l O cto b er o f *60. 21 Q Now, d u rin g t h a t tim e p e rio d d id you 22 do any work a t th e Krummrich P la n t t h a t was r e l a t e d to 23 th e N itr o , West V ir g in ia , m a n u fa c tu rin g f a c i l i t y in 24 c o n n e c tio n w ith an y h e r b ic id e s ? 25 A Not to my k now ledge, n o .
JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
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Q Do you know i f some w ork was done a t
2 the Krunrarlch P la n t In con n ectio n w ith the m anufacture
3 o f h e r b ic id a s , p a r t i c u l a r l y , 2 , 4 , 5-T th a t was b eing
4 produced a t the N itro f a c ility ?
5 A No.
6 Q A fte r you l e f t th e Krummrich P la n t in 7 I960, rig h t?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Where d id you go? 10 A I wa3 r e a s s ig n e d to th e C h o c o la te Bayou
11 P la n t in A lv in , T e x a s.
12 Q What w ere you d o in g th e re ? 13 A I w ent th e r e a s a s t a r t u p s u p e r v is o r
14 f o r a new u n i t t h a t was b ein g b u i l t t h e r e .
15 Q Ls t h a t in th e h e r b i c i d e , p e s t i c i d e ? 1 A No, i t w asn Tt .
17 Q Do an y w ork w ith p h o sp h a te s?
18 A N ot t h e r e .
19 Q Did you a t th e Krunnnrich P la n t? 20 A No, I d o n 't r e c a l l t h a t .
21 Q A t th e Krummrich d id you work w ith t r i 22 c h lo ro p h e n o l?
23
24 y e a .
A Y es. There was1 some a s s o c ia tio n th e r e ,
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Q Was t h a t c o n n e c te d w ith th e N itr o P la n t?
JAMES MAY REPO RTING SERVICE
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Not to my know ledge. What kind o f work w ere you doing w ith
tric h lo ro p h e n o l a t the Krummrich P la n t?
A T hat was p a r t o f th a t same p ro cess
improvement type th in g , th e chloropbanol u n it.
Q In c o n n e c tio n w ith t h a t p ro c e ss im
provement u n d e rta k in g , d id you a ls o work w ith o rth o ch lo ro -
phenol?
A I d o n 't remember.
Q Pentachlorophenol?
^
A Yes.
Q Is orthochlorophenol crude ap re-step
or an In term ed iate to the development of pentachlorophenol?
A I d o n 't remember. I t 's been so long ago.
Q You s a id you worked w ith tr ic h lo r o p h e n o l,
is t h a t r i g h t ? Was th e tr ic h lo r o p h e n o l p ro c e s s you w ere
g o in g to improve connected w ith the 2 ,4 ,5 -1 p ro c e ss, as
f a r a s you know?
A I d o n 't know. 1 d o n 't remember,
Q 2,4-D process?
Haw a b o u t was i t co n n e cte d w ith th e
, .. A
I d o n ' t r e c a l l , because we were d e a lin g
w ith a b u ild in g th a t had a number of d if f e r e n t u n its in i t .
Some th in g s w ere done in some p la c e s , some in o th e r s .
I d o n 't remember j u s t how th e y a l l f i t to g e th e r .
JAMES MAY REPO RTING SERVICE
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1 Q Was th e p e n ta c h lo ro p h e n o l im provem ent
2 w ork connftoted w ith - - w hat was i t -- S antophen R? 3 A There were a s e r ie s o f tra d e names
4 o f S a n to p h e n s, some o f w hich had p e n ta c h lo ro in i t , 5 Q Now, what a b o u t th e s e c h lo ro p h e n o l p ro c e s se s you were tr y in g to im prove, what was the problem? 7 A X th in k th e th in g s we were w orking w ith 8 was to t r y to improve th e b r iq u e tt in g o f some o f th e 9 m aterials. 10 Q The b r iq u e tt in g ? 11 A Y es. 12 Q What is th a t? 13 A I t ' s ta k in g a s e m i-d rie d m a t e r i a l and 14 making a p i l l o u t o f i t , p r e s s in g i t i n t o a p i l l . We 15 had 3ome g r a n u la r c a te r i a l t h a t we w ere tr y in g to im prove 1 th e p e l l e t s iz e o r th e p a r t i c l e s i z e , u n if o r m ity , p ro 17 d u c t i v i t y , s to p th e equipm ent from p lu g g in g up and t h a t 18 k in d o f s t u f f , T h a t!s th e l a s t th in g 1 remember on i t , 19 Q And how long d id you work in t h a t 20 u n d e r ta k in g , t r y i n g to improve o r work on the c h lo r o 21 p h en o l p ro c e s s e s ? 22 A Oh, I g u e s s , p ro b a b ly no more th a n s i x 23 m onths, maybe, 24 Q And you know w hat y e a r t h a t w ould have 25 been in ?
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A th in k i t was in *60. 9 Was t h a t a l l th e lo n g e r t h i s jo b was r e l a t a d t o th e c h lo ro p h e n o ls , o r was t h a t j u s t your
a sso c ia tio n w ith it?
A T h a t's j u s t mine.
Q You d o n 't know how lo n g i t had been
going on before?
A ilo .
Q A f te r you l e f t th e c h lp r o p h e n o l,'p r o je c tr ;:% where did you go?
A W ell, I was j u s t moved i n to the. T ech-
.i
n lc a l S erv ices Department in ano th er area wherein. ! had
o th e r p ro c e s se s in my e n g in e e rin g group.
Q Did those p ro cesses Involve ch lo ro p h e n o ls? A Yeah, th a t's where I g o t' in to th a t
b u sin e ss, picked up the processes fo r the -2,4-D.
Q I understand chat. A ll rig h t. That was a f t e r you s p e n t th e six months w orking on t r i c h l o r o -
phenol, pantachlorophenol and, perhaps, orthochlorophenol
crude, th a t six-m onth period?
A Right:.
Q Then a f t e r th a t you went to work in another p art of the operation there?
A I g o t promoted to A s s is ta n t E n g in eerin g
S uperintendent,
JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
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1 Q O.K. And th e n d id you c o n tin u e your
2 work w ith th e chlorophenols a f t e r th a t? 3 A Yes, In terms o f th e ir being r e la te d
4 to the 2,4-D .
5 Q O.K 6 A The d ic h lo ro came over f o r --
7 Q D ichloro, rig h t? 8 A Right.
9 Q So th e re were two d i s t i n c t i n q u i r i e s 10 b ein g made? One s e c tio n o f th e o p e r a tio n was c o n c ern ed 11 w ith th e tr ic h lo r o p h e n o ls a n d , p e rh a p s , th e p e n ta e h lo ro * 12 p h e n o ls, and you moved to a n o th e r a r e a t h a t was i s o l a t i n g 13. the d ic h lo r o p henols in the 2 ,4 ,5 - T p ro c e s s ? ^J 14 A As a raw m a t e r i a l f o r t h a t , r i g h t . 15 Q Did you have an y r e s p o n s i b i l i t y f o r l th e c h lo ro p h e n o ls a t th e Krummrieh P la n t betw een 1950 17 and 1960, a n y o f them , tr ic h l o r o p h e n o l, p e n t a - , d i - ? 18 A J u s t t h a t p ro c e s s im provem ent w ork. 19 Q T hat was th e f i r s t tim e? 20 A Yes. 21 Q A ll r i g h t . P r i o r t o t h a t w hat w ere you 22 w orking on a t th e Krummrich P la n t? 23 A I sp e n t most o f my tim e th e re w o rking 24 on th e p h en o l p ro c e s s , b o th in E n g in e e rin g and P ro d u c tio n . 25 Q A ll r i g h t . P h en o l p ro c e s s co n n e cte d
JAMES MAY REPO RTING SERVICE
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1 w ith what?
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Making p h en o l.
3 Q And it: was from t h a t t h a t you moved
4 to th is six-m onth s ti n t w ith the trich lo ro p h e n o l,
5 pentachlorophenol? A I moved out of M an u factu rin g back in to
7 Engineering.
3 Q D uring th e s ix months t h a t you were
9 working w ith the tric h lo ro p h e n o l process and, perhaps, 10 th e p e n ta c h lo ro p h e n o l p r o c e s s , were you aware o f a 11 su b sta n c e t h a t M onsanto r e f e r r e d to as TDD or 2 ,3 ,7 ,8 12 te tr a c n lo r o d ib e n z o - p a r a - d io x in ?
13 A No. 14 Q When d id you f i r s t h e a r of th a t?
15 A ' I g u e s s , w ith in th e l a s t tw o, th r e e y e a r s .
16 Q P r i o r to t h a t you sim p ly d i d n 't know 17 t h a t e x is te d ?
18 A T h a t's r i g h t .
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Q P rio r to the l a s t two to th re e y ears
20 had you e v e r h eard o f th fa m ily o f s u b s ta n c e s c a lle d
21 g e n e r a lly d io x in s ? 22 A No, I d o n 't e v e r remember t h a t .
23 Q N o th in g a b o u t c h l o r i n a t e d d ib e n z o -
24 d io x in s ?
25 A No.
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Q D oesn't rin g a b ell? A No. Q Did you e v e r h e a r o f a problem w ith ch lo racn e th a t might be connected w ith c h lo ro -d ib e n z o 1 d io x in s or 2 , 3 , 7,8-TCDD? A No. Q Never have or ju s t recen tly ? A X say p r io r to w hatever you s a id . Q P rio r to two to th re e y ears ago? A I heard about i t recen tly . Q You n e v e r h e a rd a b o u t any problem o f chloracne a t the Krunrarich P la n t w ith o rth o ch lo ro p h en o l crude or pentachlocophenol? A No. Q O.K. In a b o u t e a r l y 1961 you s h i f t e d to an o th er area of the K ru n m ric h o p eratio n and concentr a t e d on 2 ,4 -D . How long d id t h a t jo b l a s t ? A That d id r .'r l a s t but about s ix months b e fo re I l e f t and was t r a n s f e r r e d to T exas. Q And how lo n g were you in Texas? A About two, two and a h a lf y e a rs . Q Where d id you go then? A To L u lli n g , L o u is ia n a . Q What d id you work, on th e re ? A Adipic a c id . I t 's a p reserv ativ e th a t's
JAMES MAY REPO RTING SERVICE
1 used in J e llo and p ick les and o liv e s . I t 's a ls o used
2 to make some r e s i n s m a t e r i a l s .
3 Q How long w ere you th e re ?
4 A About two, two and a h a lf y e a rs .
5 Q Is th a t a l l you worked on, a d ip ic acid?
6 A No.
7 Q You work w ith an y ph en o ls or a n y th in g
8 there a t L ulling?
9 A Yes. 10 Q Were you c h l o r i n a t i n g ar.y p h e n o ls, 11 a n y th in g l i k e th a t? 12 A No. 13 Q Any a g r i c u l t u r a l p ro d u c ts th e re ? 14 A Ye s . One . 15 Q What as t h a t ? 1 A R ice h e r b ic id e . 17 Q Wha t was t h a t c a lle d ? 18 A I t was c a l l e d M achete. 19 Q Where d id you go n e x t? 20 A I came back to S t . Louis and w ent to 21 th e p la n t down on South Second S t r e e t , 22 Q What d id you do chere? 23 A I was G en e ra l M a n u fa ctu rin g S u p e rin 24 te n d e n t. 25 Q Work on a n y h e r b ic id e s ?
JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
1 A No.
2 Q Vihat happened n e x t in your c a re e r ?
3 A In 1970 I became P la n t Manager of
4 th e p la n t In Alabama .
5 Q Anniston?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Niran f a c ility ?
8 A Yes.
9 Q t'Th a t e l s e th e y make down th e re ? *
10 A PCB's.
11 Q P o ly c h lo r in a te d b ip h e n y ls?
12 A B ip h e n y ls.
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q V.'e c a l l them b ip h e n y l1 in th e tra d e ?
14 A And b ip h e n y l. And we c h l o r in a te d
15 b ip h e n y l and we h y d ro g en ated p a ra -p h e n y l and made p a ra -
16 n itr o p h e n o la te and made e t h y l p a ra th io n and m ethyl pa r a
17 th ion .
18 Q Did you do a n y th in g e l s e down th e re ?
19 A T h a t's enough.
20 Q In your raan u factu re o f PCB's d id you
21 le a r n a n y th in g a b o u t th e d io x in s o r a n y th in g lik e th a t? 22 A Not as I r e c a l l .
23 Q Nobody e v e r m entioned i t to you?
24 A Not th a t I r e c a l l .
25 Q Have you s in c e le a rn e d ab o u t t h a t in
JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
1 connection w ith PCB's? 2 A Not d io x in s in PCB's, no. 3 Q You work on any d ib e n z o f u ra n s ? 4 A Yes. 5 Q . At th at plant? 6 A No. 7 Q Y/here?
8 A At Texas ,
9 Q Is th a t Chocolate? 10 A C h o co late Bayou I 3 th e name o f th e 11 p l a n t . I t ' s n e a r a town c a l l e d A lv in , A - l - v - i - n , 12 q 0. K. '.vha t ha ppene d rie;<c in your ca r e e r ? 13 A I". 197S I cacxs uo S.t. lo u t s and the 14 E nvironm ents 1 P o lic y c t a f f .
15 0 A n d - e r e r e y o u a r e n e w ?
l A Yes. 17 Q In thi-sa-.T?2 jo b you g o t i t '7 8 ? 18 A J u s t c h a n g e d . 19 Q D if f e r e n t na r.-e or d i f f e r e n t - 20 A D iffe re n t f e d e r a l law I look a f t e r . 21 Q So you have been d o in g e s s e n t i a l l y th e 22 same k in d o f work sin c e 1973 fo r the .n /I ro n m e n ta l P o lic y 23 A - - S t a f f . 24 Q Is th a t a c o rp o ra te 3 t a f f p o s itio n ? 25 A Yes.
JAMES MAY R EP O R TIN G SERVICE
1 Q Who is your s u p e rv is o r?
2 A Dr. C arp en ter.
3 Q I s he an M.D. or Ph. D.?
4 A Ph. D.
5 Q Does he have some k in d of o f f i c i a l
6 t i t l e w ith the company?
7 A Yes, He*s D ir e c to r o f E nvironm ents 1
8 Management.
9 Q O.K. Now, w hat does th e E n v iro n m e n ta l ' 10 F o lic y S t a f f do? n A What do th ey do?
12 Q Yes. D'hat is I t s f u n c tio n ? 13 A They s e t the p o l i c i e s , g u id e lin e s and
14 p r a c t i c e s and p ro ced u res and have c o r p o r a te o v e r s ig h t
15 r e l a t i v e to f e d e r a l environm ents 1 la w s .
16 Q Does th a t -iiean you t r y to g e t your 17 o p e r a tio n s i n t o com pliance?
18 A 1 e l l , i t says t h a t v e , th o se o f us
19 who h an d le a g iv en e n v iro n m e n tal -awf a re k n o w led g eab le
20 enough o f t h a t law t h a t we. see that: w h atev er r e g u l a t i o n s
21 im plem ent t h a t Law a r e u n ifo rm ly u n d e rs to o d , a s s i m i l a t e d
22 and a p p lie d w ith in Monsanto on a co rp o ra tew ide b a s i s .
23 Q So you. f e llo w s , you d iv id e up th e s e
24 law s, r i g h t ?
25 A Yeg,
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1 Q Now, what laws hav you been re a p onUvfvii. *-
2 ` >!;: s i b l e f d r a tnc e 198 0 ?
3 A S o lid Waste D isp o sal A ct and Comprehen-
4 siv e Resource and L ia b i lity Compensation A ct.
5 Q T h a t!s why your name*s on some o f 6 th e s e th in g s a b o u t dump s i t e s , r i g h t ?
7 A Yea.
8 Q Any o th e r law t h a t you have been in
9 charge of?
*
10 A No.
v*
11 Q Now, was th e S o lid Waste -- Which was 12 f i r s t ?
13 A S o lid Waste D is p o s a l A ct was f i r s t . 14 Q And d id t h a t change i n t o th e s o - c a l l e d
15 Superfund?
16 A No. I t ' s s t i l l - t h e r e . They a r e 17 s e p a r a te law s.
18 Q They moved you from S o lid Wa-s te to 19 S uperfund? 20 A No. I have b o th . 21 Q You have a n y th in g e l s e ? 22 A No. 23 Q A ll r i g h t . Now, you s a id in th e l a s t 24 two or th re e y ea rs you had been made aw are o f f o r th e 25 , f i r s t tim e som ething a b o u t d i o x in s , r i g h t ?
JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
*
1 A Yes.
2 Q O.K. What d io x in w ere you f i r s t made
3 aware o f and when? 4 A The f i r s t one I was made aw are o f
5 was 2 ,3 ,7 ,8 , and i t was in a s t a f f m eeting and somebody got to ta lk in g about something about dioxins and to x ic ity 7 and they ta lk ed about a re p o rt from Seveso, I ta ly ,o r 8, som ething l i k e t h a t , and th e y p a sse d a th in g around 9 and I read i t , and th a t's i t . 10 Q And t h a t would have been a b o u t 178", 11 you th in k ? 12 A No. I t was p ro b a b ly l a t e r th a n t h a t . 13 Q In c o n n e c tio n w ith your S o lid Waste 14 A ct m o n ito rin g , you d i d n 't become a c q u a in te d w ith or 15 aw are o f d io x in s ? l A (Shakes head n e g a t i v e l y .) 17 Q The s t a f f m e etin g t h a t you had you 18 th in k some tim e in 1979 was th e S eveso in c id e n t th e s u b je c t 19 m a tte r o f t h a t m e e tin g , o r d id i t j u s t come up in fo rm a lly ? 20 A I t j u s t came up in f o r m a lly in a ro u n d 21 ro b in ty p e o f i n c id e n t a s opposed to some ty p e o f fo rm a l 22 p r e s e n ta tio n . 23 Q You s a y you t h i n k th e r e was some k in d 24 o f handout? 25 A Somebody had an a r t i c l e t h a t was o u t
JAMES MAY REPO RTING SERVICE
1
1 o f a j o u r n a l , I d o n 't know w hat i t w as. Some o f us
2 re a d i t . 1 d o n 't know who r e a d i t . I re a d i t . I t
a3 was p r e t t y le n g th y a r t i c l e ,
4 Q During your schooling, train in g , to
5 become a ch e m ic al e n g in e e r , d id any o f your c o u rse work
involve the study of toxic substances?
7 A No.
8 Q Did you have any tr a in in g a t a l l when
9 you handled chem icals ab o u t t h e i r r e l a t i v e t o x i c i t y or
10 p r e c a u tio n s you sh o u ld ta k e?
11 A In s c h o o l?
12 Q Y es.
I 13
A Not in school.
14 Q O.K. Did you do any la b work in sc h o o l?
15 A Yes. 16 Q They j u s t tu rn e d you lo o se in t h e r e ,
17 r i g h t ?
18 A I don1t ev er, r e c a l l an y l e c t u r e s on
19 p r e c a u tio n s o r s a fe h a n d lin g p ro c e d u re s , n o . 20 Q J u s t so m eth in g you w e r e n 't co n cern ed
21 w ith w h ile you w ere in s c h o o l, r i g h t ? 22 A No.
23 Q A f t e r you g o t o u t o f s c h o o l, I presum e, 24 you had some o f t h a t w ith M onsanto, th en ? 25 A Oh, y e s .
JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
1 2 on?
Q What kind o f th in g s were you in s tr u c te d
3 A W ell, as I re c a ll* in the o perating
4 procedures or d e sc rip tio n s of the various processes
5 you worked w ith , they would have in the running te x t
6 things r e la tiv e to sa fe ty precautions and safe handling
7 and w h at to do in em ergency s i t u a t i o n s , g o t some on
8 you, g o t some in your e y e s , b re a th e so m eth in g , i f t h a t
9 happened to be w hat you co u ld b r e a th e , t h a t k in d o f th in g . 10 Q And, in f a c t , on some o f th o se o p e ra - ? n tbns -12 A What to w ear a s p r o te c tiv e eq u ip m en t,
13 x And th e r e was even in some o f th o se
14 o p e r a tin g i/a n u als a t o x i c i t y s e c t i o n , was th e re n o t?
15 A I d o n 't remember w h eth er th e r e was
16 o r n o t .
17 Q But i f you g o t any i n s t r u c t i o n a t a l l ,
18 t h a t 's w here you g o t i t , a t M onsanto?
19 A W ^ll, in term s o f s a fe h a n d lin g o f 20 ch e m ic als* t h a t 's th e o n ly p la c e I can remember g e t t i n g 21 f a i r l y i n d o c t r i n a t e d a b o u t i t .
22 Q You remember g e t t i n g i t anyw here e l s e 23 a t M onsanto? 24 A No, n o t *0 t h a t fo rm a l o f c o n te x t. 25 Q Any in fo rm a l k in d of th in g ?
JAM ES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
1 A No. 2 Q Now, you had p r e t t y good e x p e r ie n c e , 3 i t lo o k s l i k e , down in th e p l a n t s 7 4 A Yes. 5 Q You w ere a fo rem an , I th in k you s a i d . And you w ere a c t u a l l y o u t in th e s e o p e r a tin g - - You 7 were P la n t Manager? 8 A Yes. 9 Q Who had a c c e s s to th e o p e r a tin g manuals?10 A vho has a c c e s s to them? 11 Q Yeah.Down in th e p l a n t . 12 A W ell, in a l l th e o p e r a tin g c o n t r o l 13 rooms th e r e a r e c o p ie s th e r e th e o p e ra to rs co u ld lo o k 14 a t , th e forem en. Anybody who w anted to w alk in th e re 15 to look a t i t co u ld look a t i t . 16 Q I r e a l i z e , p e rh a p s , anybody who was 17 th e r e co u ld lo o k a t i t , b u t who v o u lf have o c c a sio n ? 18 Vas th e re a p a r t i c u l a r jo b c l a s s i f i c a t i o n t h a t would 19 have o c c a s io n to look a t i t ? 20 A Not t h a t s p e c i f i c a l l y . I t was th e r e 21 f o r e v e ry b o d y 's u s e . 22 Q So anyone a s s o c ia te d w ith a p ro d u c tio n 23 u n i t , f o r exam ple, may have cause o r o c c a sio n to ta k e 24 a look a t the o p e ra tin g manual? 25 A Could.
JAMES MAY REPO RTING SERVICE
* 1
2r
i
Q
*t
! y. A
In operating the process? .
3 Q Mow, asid o from the t o x i c i t y informa-
4 tio n and the safo handling ir*forratin n t h a t you- have
5 talked about chat appear*: in the o p eratin g n s r tw ls , do
you know of -ny ocher w r i t i n g t h a t venid have th a t kind
7 of f r e e a c e c:s a t: th 3 ope re >:i o n s 1 o*.re1 ?
8 i* Mo. The one racing i n s t r u c t i o n s were
9 p r e t t y much the o f f i c i a l thing t h a t we? there where we t r i e d
10 to put ,v7.1 the i n f or r a t i o n " r : ,' * ' l J about Che p ro c esses. n 0 Dr. CaHi:" and Dr. Mever, you know
12 those gentlemen?
13 A I know Dr. Cal l i s .
14 Q lie has t e s t i f i e d t h a t th e re I*- g
15 policy th,; t h'on.svtfo ha. t h a t provides tfriat information
1 t h a t the Medical D e n a r t n ^ n t h a s *bout t o : * 'c i t y riust be
17 communicated to :.he w0 r > 0 '- . kr- vo-- .--.'a r e of t h a t nolley?
18 A I n 9 genarf*1 * 'ense , ''Ob,
19 Q He ^v.rtba- '"u-- *ff sd t h r t tho - n r 5; on 20 re sp o n sib le for t-Vv'Tfnc; t V t * fo rra :ion 1#' t r i b u -
21 ted i t by *:a 7 0- . 22 V1o-' '/hi C th a t 1m?
'ta t^* "!h?ei:, -m
23 A I 'n fart LI Lv; i l t h the document, but 24 the many cay* in which i t r-ov.ld u.;od I 'm not. 25 Q I understand. He a l s o t e s t i f i e d th e re
JAMES MAYREPORTINGSERVICE
0
1 was an OSHA form t h a t was u sed p r i o r to t h a t a s s o r t
2 o f a c a tc h a ll form.
3 A Yes. 4 q He t e s t i f i e d t h a t t h a t in fo rm a tio n 5 on th o se kinds of form s would come from th e M edical D epartm ent and would go to the P la n t Manager and he 7 had the u ltim ate r e s p o n s ib ility fo r seein g to I t chat 8 ch at in fo rm a tio n was d iss e m in a te d to p eo p le in th e w ork 9 p la c e . whan you were P la n t M anager, was c h a t tr u e ? 10 A I d o n f t remember chose fo rm s. 1 11 remember t h a t th e p h y s ic a l d a ta o r p h y s io l an d c h e m ic a l 12 p r o p e r t i e s and what we knew a b o u t th e chem iolc . t h a t w ere 13 b eing h andled and made an a in te r m e d ia te s w ere a l l p a r t 14 o f th e s e o p e ra tin g i n s t r u c t i o n s , o f th e s e books t h a t 15 were in th ^ o p e ra tin g c o n t r o l room s. 1 Q Thing we have been t a l k i n g a b o u t c a l l e d 17 th e o p e r a tin g manual? 18 A Yeah. I f th e use o f th e s e o th e r th in g s 19 has come a lo n g s in c e 1978, t h a t may w e ll be s o . 20 Q w e ll , a l l I w ant co knew i s w hat you know. 21 A I know th a t vje had a book a t Anil la con 22 in the c o n tr o l room chat had the p h y s ic a l ch em ical data
on wbat wa knew, d o 's and don' u 's . Q And i t was upddea from tim e to tim e
a s you found out more, r ig h t?
JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
\
t
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20
21
22
23 24 25
A Yeah, e v e ry two y e a rs .
q And would c h a t u p d a tin g be th e ex -
press ion of th a t general p o lic y to inform people in
th e w o rk p lace w hat th e M ed ical D ep artm en t knew a b o u t
to x ic ity and hazards?
A X d o n 't remember th a t b ein g th e main
reason for doing r t .
Q You know w h at th e main re a s o n was?
A Yes.
q What was i t ?
, *
A To have th e b e s t in fo rm a tio n a b o u t
th a t p ro cess o u t th e r e so t h a t p eo p le who needed to
look som ething up could fin d i t .
Q And a s f a r a s you know, t h a t was the
p o lic y of the company, w a sn 't it?
A Yes,
Q And i f th e company g o t new and b e t t e r
in fo rm atio n than i t had the year b e fo re , a s f a r a s you
know, i t was th e p o lic y o t th e company to g e t t h a t new
in fo rm a tio n down th e r e in t h a t p o lic y m anual so th e s e
fello w s w orking w ith i t would be ad v ise d what die prob-
lems were?
A To g e t i t i n t o w hat th e y c a l l th e
o p eratin g manual.
Q As a P la n t M anager - - and sp e a k in g
JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
-
1 p r a c t i c a l l y -- th e o p e r a tin g manual is r e a l l y w here
2 you would e x p e ct a fello w to go to fo r in fo rm atio n i f
3 he had q u e s tio n s a b o u t w hat was g o in g on?
4 A Yes,
5 Q And th e p e r t i n e n t answ ers ought to be
6 there, is n : c th at right?
7 A For th a t p a rtic u la rprocess.
8 Q A ll r i g h t . You f i r s t heard a b o u t
9 2,3,7,8-TC D D in f o rm a lly a t a s t a f f m eetin g in some tim e , 10 you thin*c, 1979, and i t was a s s o c ia te d w ith th e i n c i d e n t n a t S ev eso , I t a l y . Now, su b se q u e n t to t h a t d id you h e a r 12 more a b o u t d io x in ? 13 A How do you mean? 14 Q In c o n n e c tio n w ith your w ork. Did 15 you f in d o u t a n y th in g more a b o u t d io x in ? 16 A Not in c o n n e c tio n w ith my w ork. 17 Q T h a t's tr u e odai. 18 A Yeah, to d a y i t ' s tr u e s in c e my jo b
19
ch an g ed . What r e a l l y carje to minci was th e f e d e r a l 20
government is tn in king about including dioxin and fu ran 21 compounds in th e h azard o u s w aste r u le s and th e y have 22
proposed as the F ederal R eg ister, so, yeah.
23
Q From the tim e in 1979 th a t you f i r s t
24
h ea rd a b o u t i t , aDOut a i ox i n , d id you h e a r an y more
25
from y o u r company? Were you b r ie f e d any on d io x in o r
JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
d id you fin d o ut an y th in g about i t In connection w ith your work o th e r than ju s t th is a r t i c l e you re fe rre d to?
A N ot in c o n n e c tio n w ith my work, Q Did you fin d o u t j u s t in fo rm a lly or do any re a d in g on i t y o u rse lf? A No, I t d i d n 't have a n y th in g to do w ith w hat I was d o in g , so I d i d n 't need to know, Q And you had no d is c u s s io n s a b o u t i t s e f f e c t on man, to x i c i t y or an y th in g lik e th a t? A No, I t ' s n o t p a r t o f my w ork, so I d id n 't have occasion to , Q Ju st so I understand, the only r e a l co n n ectio n or inform ation you had ab o u t d io x in - - and I'm sp e ak in g of 2,3,7,8-TCDD when I say d io x in - - in c o n n e c tio n w ith your work was In t h a t in fo rm a l s t a f f m eetin g when ycu g o t t h a t l i t t l e a r t i c l e a b o u t Seveso? A W ell, t h a t 's the f i r s t time I te rd a b o u t i t . Now, you c a n 't h e lp b u t h e a r p eo p le t a l k about i t and read about i t , so th a t's happened and th is a l l g o t k in d o f mixed up in term s o f s p e c if ic s because I d o n 't r e c a ll having been s p e c if ic a lly involved in a c t i v i t i e s w ith in M onsanto r e l a t e d to my work t h a t I had ca u se to have to know a n y th in g a b o u t d io x in , Q You d i d n 't have to ap p ro v e any p o s i t i o n t h a t the company was going to ta k e in re fe re n c e to d io x in ?
JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
A No.
* i
`
Q And you w e re n ' t on a n y d i s t r i b u t i o n
lis ts or anything to receive inform ation about dioxin,
th a t s o rt of thing?
A I d o n 't know a b o u t t h a t b ecau se a l o t
o f th in g s g e t d i s t r i b u t e d , I may o r may n o t h av e .
q
fo r a w hile?
Now, th e y had you in s o l i d w aste th e r e
A Yes.
Q Did you look a t th e N itr o P la n t-ln * ' terras of s o lid w aste?
A Among o th e r s .
..
Q The f i r s t tim e you d id t h e r e , I g u e s s ,
was in 1978, che b e g in n in g o f *78?
A Yeah. L ate *73 we su rv ey e d M onsanto,
Q Was t h a t in c o n n e c tio n w ith t r y i n g to s ta y in com pliance w ith th e S o lid Waste A ct?
A No.
Q Why were you d o in g th a t? A To g e t re a d y .
Q For what?
A For the im plem entation of the A ct,
w hich we knew th e r u le s w ere com ing.
q So you surveyed N itro ? A T h a t's one p la n t, one o f s e v e r a l.
JAMES MAY REPO RTING SERVICE
1 Q And d id you have a d e f i n i t i o n o f
2 so lid waste?
3 A Not a t th a t tim e.
4 Q You m ust have had some id e a what i t
5 was you were lo o k in g f o r a t t h a t tim e.
6 A We l l , w hat we w ere tr y in g to do is
7 j u s t g e t a volume v a r i e t y co u n t on th e ty p e s o f p ro
8 cess w astes th a t were g en erated .
9 Q That were aver generated a t N itro? 10 A No. T h at was b e in g c u r r e n t l y g e n e ra te d n Q Did you s u rv e y a n y o ld dumps t h a t w ere 12 n o lo n g e r b ein g u sed? 13 A No, n o t t h a t we knew o f. 14 O.K. And t h i s would have b ee n , l i k e , 15 e a r l y *79 o r l a t e '7 3 ? 16 A Oh, t h i s was l a t e *73. 17 Q So you w ere co n c ern ed a t t h a t tim e 13 w ith e x i s t i n g - 19 A M onsanto' s c u r r e n t w aste management 20 p r a c t i c e s 21 Q And d id th e r e come a tim e when you had 22 t o be co n cern ed w ith M o n san to 's p a s t w aste p r a c t ic e s ? 23 A Uh huh ( y e s ) .
24
Q And when was th a t? 25 A T h at was in 179.
JAMES MAY REPO RTING SERVICE
Q And how d id t h a t come a b o u t? Monsanto and f i f t y o th e r companies p a rtic ip a te d in a survey of the major chem ical producers under Congressman E c k h a rd t's House O v ersig h t Committee w ork. Q So th e E ck h a rd t Committee was formed some tim e in 1979 o r th e y undertook t h i s s u rv e y some tim e in 179? A Yes. Q Monsanto was one of f i f t y p la n ts , so what did you do in co n n ectio n w ith th a t u n d ertak in g regarding N itro? A J u s t s e n t o u t some form s and th e i n s t r u c t i o n s f o r f i l l i n g o u t th e f orras and g o t th e form back w ith a l l th e r e s t of th e forms and s e n t them in . Q Were you th e fe llo w who was r e s p o n s ib le fo r seeing to i t the form go t f ille d - o u t? A W ell, not got f ille d out, but they got a l l c o lle c te d c o rp o ra te ly fo r Monsanto. Q Then you to o k th e m a te ria ls and g o t the inform ation out of the m a te ria ls th a t were se n t to you and com pleted th e form s? A No. I p re p a re d , based on th e i n s t r u c tio n s we g o t from E c k h a r d t's Committee te c h n ic a l s t a f f , we p re p a re d a s e t o f i n s t r u c t i o n s f o r p r e p a r a tio n o f th e
JAMES MAY REPO RTING SERVICE
1 s u rv e y fo rm s. We s e n t th e s u rv e y form s t o th e N itr o
2 P l a n t . The N itr o P la n t f i l l e d o u t th e su rv e y fo rm s,
3 s e n t them b ack to me and I added t h a t to th e s ta c k f o r
4 Monsanto and s e n t i t in to th e te c h n ic a l s t a f f fo r th e
5 Eckhardt Com nittee. Q Did you have th e f i n a l a p p ro v a l on
7 th a t? I re a liz e probably Hanley had the u ltim ate say,
8 but in terms of your job?
9 A Yeah. In terms of g e ttin g the forms
10 back and lo o k in g th rough to se e i f people had dime what 11 th e y a r e su p p o sed to d o , y e s , 12 Q You c o u ld sa y yes o r no to th e s t u f f ? 13 In o th e r w o rd s, "We a r e go in g to sen d t h i s , we a r e n 't 14 se n d in g t h a t , i t ' s n o t c o m p le te ," t h a t k in d of th in g ? 15 A Yeah. 16 Q Now, a t t h a t tim e d u rin g t h i s p e rio d 17 o f tim e when you w ere r e q u ir e d to exam ine p a s t w aste 18 d i s p o s a l a t N i t r o , d id you have a d e f i n i t i o n you w ere 19 w o rk in g w ith f o r s o l i d w a ste ?
20
A Yeah, you had a d e f in itio n of s o lid w aste. 21 Q Do you r e c a l l w hat i t was? 22
A No. I t 's about th a t long. I t 's w hat-
23
e v e r 's in the law.
24
Q In a d d i t i o n to w h at was in th e law , d id
25
you id e n t i f y o th e r m a te ria ls when you were doing th is
JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
survey? -, A Survey d id n ' t have a n y th in g to do
w ith th e , law.
Q You may have m isu n d ersto o d my q u e s tio n . The E ck h ard t Conm ittee asked t h a t you perform a su rv ey a t th N itro P la n t, among o th e r p l a n t s , to d e te rm in e , I g u e s s , th e lo c a ti o n o f dump s i t e s f o r s o li d w aste?
A No. T hat was o n ly p a r t of i t . Q O.K. But p a r t o f i t was to i d e n t i f y th a t, right? A I never have been sure. Q Maybe you sh o u ld t e l l me w hat i t i s you were looking fo r pu rsu an t to the E ckhardt re q u e s t. A Congressman E ckhardt*s Subcommittee asked to th e b e s t of anybody* s a b i l i t y fo r them to tr y to re c o n stru c t what they had done w ith th e ir chem ical m anufacturing process waste since 1950. Q O.K. So t h a t was w hat you u n d e rto o k to do a t th e N itro P lan t? A Yeah, fo r th a t form. That*s what the form was supposed to do. Q Were p ro c e ss w a ste s to be d e f in e d , were they defined a t a ll? A W ell, they j u s t sa id from your Indus tr ia l processes.
JAMES MAY REPO RTING SERVICE
i
V \
1
Q For exam ple, i f you were m anufacturing
2- ' i " a h e r b ic id * a t N l t r o , d id you sim p ly s a y i t was a h e r b i -
3 aide o r did you say , w e ll, i t was 2 ,4 ,5 -tric h lo ro p h a n o x y -
4 a c e t i c a c id ? Did you b re a k i t down t h a t f a r ?
5 A No. They were J u s t in te r e s te d in th e 6 process w aste from the p la n t.
7 Q And i s a p ro c e s s w a s te , i s t h a t some
8 k in d o f term o f a r t ? Does t h a t mean so m eth in g s p e c i a l
9 to the chem ical engineer? 10 A Yes.
' . ,H
n Q VJhat does i t mean? 12 A I t means so m eth in g t h a t is no lo n g e r 13 o f com m ercial v alu e to t h a t p a r t i c u l a r p ro c e s s a s i t i s 14 when i t ' s w ithdraw n from th e p r o c e s s . 15 Q Would t h a t in c lu d e b y p ro d u c ts?
1 6 A No. B yproduct s t i l l has v a lu e . T h is
17 i s som ething you tak e o u t o f th e p ro c e s s and t r a d i t i o n a l l y
18 I t h a s n 't had an y v a lu e . You may some day d is c o v e r you
19 c o u ld g e t som ething o u t o f i t , b u t t r a d i t i o n a l l y i t ' s
20 so m eth in g you w ithdraw w ith th e p ro c e s s an d h a s no
21 f u r t h e r v a lu e .
22 Q And i t ' s th e p ro c e s s w a ste t h a t th e
23 E c k h a rd t Committee was i n t e r e s t e d in ?
ii
24 25
A Yes. Q Not a product?
JAMES MAY REPO RTING SERVICE
-
V
r
f
K.
1 2 3 4 5 6
7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
T h at's r ig h t.
-Q
A contam inant would be a p ro cess w aste?
A A contam inant what?
Q I f you had a p ro d u ct th a t had con-
tam inant th a t you could e x tr a c t and o b v io u sly i t would
have no, a s you say , v alu e in term s o f nobody w anted
to buy i t , then th a t would be a p ro cess w aste?
A I f you a c tu a lly did i t . I f you l e f t
i t in the product, i t 's not a w aste.
Q I want to'm ake su re what you mean when
you say pro cess w aste - -
A You go th ro u g h y o u r p u r i f i c a t i o n - -
Y ou're ta lk in g ab o u t, lik e , p u r ific a tio n ?
Q Sure.
A I f you p u r if y som ething and th e im-
p u r itie s th a t you p u ll o u t, i f you have no f u r th e r use
fo r th o se , those w ill be c a lle d pro cess w a ste . In th e
in d u s tr ia l lexicon th a t's what th a t means.
Q And t h a t 's w h at you to o k th e E c k h a rd t
Commit t e a 's r e q u e s t p e r ta in in g to p ro c e s s w aste to mean,
th a t definition?
A Yes.
q And d id you lo c a te some p ro c e s s w aste
dump s i t e s a t th e Monsanto N itr o f a c i l i t y ?
A Yea.
JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
-
1 Q Did you I d e n tif y w het were th en th o se
J 2 p ro c e s s w aste dump s i t e s ?
3 A In a very g en eral way.
4 Q I assume th e y w an t to kn<*7, l i k e ,
5 s in c e 1950, so how would you d e te rm in e w hat was in a 6 p ro c e s s w aste dump s i t e ? 7 A T a lk in g to p e o p le , lo n g s e r v ic e em
8 p lo y e es, going back to w hatever re c o rd s m ight be s t i l l
9 around.
-*r
10 Q So you t a lk e d to o ld tim e r s ?
n A Yeah.
12 Q And lo o k ed a t w h ate v er re c o r d s you
'v J 13 m ight fin d ? u A Yes.
15 Q w hat k in d o f r e c o r d s would t h a t be? 16 A I don' t know w hat th e y w ere. 17 Q Did you lo o k a t them? 18 A No. 19 Q Do you have a n y id e a , would th e y b e , 20 l i k e , la b r e p o r ts ?
21 A I d o n * t know.
22
Q You have
no idea?
23 A I don' t k n w w hat th e y u se d .
24 Q Y o u 're presum ing th e y looked a t r e c o r d s ? 25 A W ell, th e i n s t r u c t i o n s from th e E c k h a rd t
JAMES MAY REPO R TIN G SERVICE
1
1 t e c h n i c a l s t a f f was to do the b e s t Job you c a n , h e re a r e 2 th e p o ssib le so u rces, and so I enum erated the s o rts 3 of sources. 4 Q Told your people th a t? 5 A R ig h t. We s a id t h a t sounds re a s o n a b le i 6 h e re a r e th e p o s s ib le s o u r c e s . D o n 't go make a c a r e e r 7 o u t o f t h i s , b u t do th e b e s t you c a n , we have d e a d lin e s 8 to meet. 9 Q You ta lk e d to popla and looked a t 10 w hatever documents m ight have been in e x is te n c e . Did 11 you do an y t e s t i n g ? 12 A No. 13 Q Did you s u b s e q u e n tly do an y t e s t i n g 14 a t th o se s i t e s a f t e r you co m p leted your work f o r th e 15 H ck h ard t Com m ittee? l A I d o n 't r e c a l l an y t e s t i n g b e in g done 17 w ith re g a rd t o th e E c k h a rd t s u rv e y . E c k h a rd t s u rv e y 18 d i d n 't r e q u ir e an y t e s t i n g . 19 Q T h at s p e c i f i c a l l y d id n o t r e q u i r e
20
te s tin g ? 21 A T h a t's r i g h t .
22
Q I mean, i t s a id , do n o t t e s t , j u s t look 23
a t records aid ta lk to people? 24
A There was n o th in g on the form t h a t r e 25
quired any te s ts .
JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
1 q O.K. Do you remember w hat you fcund v_. 2 in tilo se p ro c e s s w aste s i t e s , do you remember a n y th in g
3 a t all? 4 A No, I d o n 't remember t h a t. 5 Q And w h a te v e r you i d e n t i f i e d by way 6 of ta lk in g to people or lo o k in g a t docum ents, you tu rn ed 7 o v er, th e n , to th e E ckhardt Committee? 8 A Yes. 9 Q The E c k h a rd t Com m ittee, th e n , kflftW ... 10 e v e r y th in g you knew a b o u t th e s e dump s i t e s , anyway^' 11 is t h a t tr u e ? 12 A As b e s t I can t e l l . I d o n 't know 13 w hat th e y 'd do w ith i t . I guess th e y d id . 14 Q S ut t h a t 's your u n d e r s ta n d in g , w h at 15 e v e r you found o u t from th e i n v e s t i g a t i o n you tu rn e d 16 over to th e E c k h a rd t Com mittee? 17 A Yes. 18 Q W hatever happened to th e E c k h a rd t 19 Com m ittea? 20 A Oh, th e y a r e a s ta n d in g House c o n s n itte e . 21 He d i d n 't g e t r e e l e c t e d . H e's n o t chairm an o f th e t h in g , 22 b u t i t ' s s t i l l th e r e . 23 Q What happened in t h i s com m ittee? What 24 happened to i t ? Did you e v e r h e a r a n y th in g ? 25 A They is s u e d a r e p o r t a b o u t w hat th e y
JAMES MAY REPO RTING SERVICE
1 had done :1
2 And t h a t was l t 7
3 A We need to g e t on w ith g e t tin g th e
4 ru le s and reg u latio n s out.
5 Q Now, d id you make an y su rv ey f o r th e 6 E ck h ard t Committee of .any o f f - p la n t s i t e s fo r p ro cess
7 w aste? 8 A I t included both. I t said whatever
9 you d id w ith process w aste, no m atter where, 10 Q Now, a s id e from t h a t su rv e y ,
V3*V
n you done an y o th e r su rv e y s as to lo c a ti o n and c o n t e n t .. *
12 o f th e s e p ro c e s s w aste s i t e s ?
;
13 A Yeah, we have done an u p d ate more
14 r e c e n t l y on th e p ro c e s s w aste v a r i e t y and volum e,
15 Q Now, Is t h a t j u s t som ething you d e l c id e d to do i n t e r n a l l y , o r was t h a t J u s t a r e q u e s t?
17 A I t was i n t e r n a l l y .
18 Q DoLyou know when t h a t was done ? 19 A I t was in T82, 20 Q *82? 21 A Yeah.
22 Q Do yen know i f any t e s t i n g was done? 23 A No, th e re w asn*t any t e s t i n g . These
24
were reco rd type surveys,
25
Q T hat was under your r e s p o n s i b ility ?
JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
A No,
Q Who was t h a t under? A I t was under a Hazardous Waste -4 Management S tu d y ,
5 Q A gain, th a t was an i n t e r n a l stu d y 6 undertaken by Monsanto?
7 A Yes,
8 Q Hazardous Waste Management Study?
9 A Yes.
10
Q
Do you knew who was in c h a rg e
-v *'.T ' V
11 A Yes.
"r-\. .vr.
r , - -;V * '. - V
12 Q Who was th a t ? - a,:" ? '
13 A H e's r e t i r e d . F a u l K lin g s p o rn , K - l - i - n -
14 g - s - p - o - r - n
15 Who d id he work f o r , w hat p a r t o f
16 M onsanto?
17 A I d o n 't know. I d o n 't knew how to 18 t e l l you. I 'd screw i t up i f I t r i e d to t e l l you, 19 Q Did you g e t a copy o f th e r e p o r t? 20 A What r e p o r t?
21 Q WAs th e r e a r e p o r t t h a t em anated from
22 th e Hazardous Waste Management Study? 23
A Yes. 24
Q I guess, the t i t l e of i t is Hazardous 25
Waste Management Study?
JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
1 A Yes.
2 Q 1982?
3 A Yes.
4 Q I f I wanted to g e t a copy of i t , 5 t h a t 's what I would ask fo r? A T h at's what you would a sk f o r. 7 Q Whether I co uld g et i t or n o t is 8 another m atter, rig h t. 9 A ll r i g h t . Now, i s th e r e su c h a 10 th in g a s a p ro d u c t w aste? 11 A Yes. 12 0 Now, w hat would a p ro d u c t w aste be? 13 A A had b a tc h , a had r u n , a bad ta n k f u l 14 of so m eth in g . 15 0 Now, d id you have dumps w here you 1 dumped p ro d u c t w aste? 17 A I d o n 11 know, 18 Q Or did vov dump i t in th e same p la c e , 19 p ro b ab ly ?
20
A I don' t know. T h ere' s a l l k in d s o f 21 th in g s you c o u ld do w ith i t . 22 Q Do you know i f th e r e i s an a tte m p t 23 made o r i f th e r e was an a tte m p t made to s e p a r a te ira te r i a l s 24
th a t you dumped, to have a l l p ro c e ss w aste dumped in one 25
p la c e and i f you e v e r dump a p r o d u c t w a s te , to dump i t
JAMES MAY R EP O R TIN G SER VIC E
1 in a n o th e r? Was th e re any k in d o f r u le a b o u t th a t?
2 A No, n o t to ray know ledge.
3 Q 3o a p ro c e ss w aste dump co uld c o n ta in
4 p ossibly product waste as w ell?
5 A Sure. Q Did you ev e r i d e n t i f y a n y th in g where 7 a p ro d u ct w aste wa.s dumped a t the N itr o P la n t?
8 N'n ( n o t s p e c if i c a l l y .
9 F id you ge ne ra 11y?
10 A lo, n o t t o .-nv kn owle d <?e, ** w
11 3 Wover r r;u iR ted to do th a t Sy an y
12 a L "ha " :
O*, of?
13 ^A V .1 ,
14
"<
?, l^ , V
, J*
7*/ 'n tc r r .a " *ur'**:- to ~*e
15 WK -O i;. - i,2 ........................ . 1 r .
16 l1m. Mo .
17 4.U .d - o"' - r . *- ; oCa t f onr* Iso ?
18 A O vf Q .*
^ *
19 s p e c i f i c a b o u t i t .
it t
20 Q A- * /ov y*:, you n ev er t e s t e d 21 any o f th e se wa she m' t e s , -th e .: i t wa s p.vr>ce$s wa s te
22 or flig h t have been a p ro c u c t va^ta? You r.v.-*er took
23 sa " p ie s t o 3i.o - n r f a t a a you know?................................
...U c . .
,
24 A You r;e;>r. go o u t and d r i l l h o le s ?
25
a i
'.''ah.
JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
1 A N ot to my know ledge.
2 Q I assume t h a t 's th e way you t e s t ,
3 d r i l l a h o le and take a sam ple, is th a t the way you dp it?
4 A I f i t was on my p r o p e r ty . I d o n 't
5 knew a b o u t g o in g on somebody e l s e ' s p r o p e r ty . 6 Q But i f i t was on M onsanto's p ro p e rty ,
7 t h a t 's what you would do, d ig i t up o r d r i l l a h o le? 8 A Yeah,
9 Q As f a r a s you know, t h a t was n ev o r done?
10 A I d o n 't r e c a l l t h a t i t was o r h e a r in g
n about it.
12 Q Now, have you had t o do an y k in d o f
13 su rv ey in c o n n e c tio n w ith your work w ith th e S u p e rfu n d ,
14 t h i s new law y o u 're lo o k in g a f t e r ? 15 A Yeah. A l o t o f th e same type o f th in g .
16 In e s s e n c e , th e y s a id i f you tu rn e d t h i s in f o r E c k h a rd t,
17 you d o n 't have t o do i t , w h a te v e r you tu rn e d in th e r e
18 i s f i n e , t h a t s o r t o f th i n g ; b u t th e r e was a r e p o r t i n g
19 re q u ire m a n t s i m i l a r t o w here have you s e n t s t u f f .
20 Q And d id you f in d t h a t Monsanto had
21 m o stly co m p lied by v i r t u e o f i t s re sp o n se to th e E c k h a rd t
22 Committea?
23 A Yeah, a la r g e p a r t .
24
r\
25
Q Was t h a t p a r t i c u l a r l y t r u e a t N itr o ? A I w o u ld n 't sa y so more than any p lace
JAMES MAY REPO RTING SERVICE
4 1 else.
2 Q You know a n y a d d i t i o n a l r e p o r tin g 3 you have had t o make to th e S u p erfu n d Agency w ith r e f e r 4 ence to N itro? 5 A No. 6 Q So would i t be f a i r to say in g e n e ra l 7 th e E ck h ard t work th a t was done f a i r l y w e ll s u f f ic e d 8 the requirem ents of the Superfund in q u iry , a t le a s t, 9 so f a r a s N i t r o 1s co n cern ed ? 10 A Yeah. 11 0 Do you knew i f a n y 2 ,4 ,5 - T w aste 12 p ro d u c t was i d e n t i f i e d a t an y o f th e dump s i t e s a t N itro ? 13 A I don11 remember e v e r s e e in g t h a t . 14 Q Do you know i f a n y d io x in s w ere id e n 15 t i f i e d to th e E c k h a rd t Committee in an y o f th e p ro c e s s 16 w aste dump s i t e s i d e n t i f i e d ? 17 A No. 18 Q When you were w orking in th e j i a n t a s 19 P l a n t Manager in A n n isto n and a ro u n d , d id you have 20 o c c a s io n t o w ork w ith carb o n d i s u l f i d e ? 21 A No. 22 0 Was t h a t e v e r u sed in an y o f th e f a c i l i 23 t i e s w here you worked? 24 A I th in k th e y use i t a t the Krunaarich 25 P l a n t , b u t I w a s n 't a s s o c ia te d w ith where th e y use i t .
JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
i
1
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q And, co n seq u en tly , you w ouldn*t have been In v o lv ed w ith any H2S, r ig h t?
A W ell, 1 have been Involved In H2S, b u t I t w asn 't around th ere.
Q Where was th a t? ' A I t was in A n n isto n , Q With the N lran o p eratio n ? A Yes. Q From p u r e a r l i e r te stim o n y , I g u ess, the b e st source of Inform ation about the hazards of H2S w ould be th e o p e r a t o r s ' m anual, you th in k ? A Yeah. * Q A f e llc w w orking on one o f th o se process jo b s , you knew, an o p e ra to r or h e lp e r or w hate v e r , w ould t h a t be the b e s t p la c e f o r him to lo o k f o r th a t kind of inform ation? A W ell, yeah. H e'd g et i t during h is o p erato r tra in in g , h e'd get i t during h is breakin period and h e 'd get i t in the in d o c trin a tio n s and o rie n ta tio n he goes through i n i t i a l l y and then get i t out of the o peration in stru c tio n s la te r on. Q During the o p erato r tra in in g phase, he would re c e iv e s p e c ific in s tru c tio n s ab o u t v a rio u s su b stan ces he m ight be working w ith , rig h t? A Yes.
JAMES MAY REPO RTING SERVICE
4
1
Q Do you know t h a t t h a t may be a c o r p o r a -
2 tlonw ida p o lic y th a t would a f f e c t th a t? In o th e r w ords,
3 would you expect --
4 A I assume i t is .
5 Q' You would e x p e c t th e same k in d o f
6 thing to occur a t N itro?
7 A You t r a i n somebody and have somebody
8 to w atch h i? b e fo re you tu rn him lo o se in d e p e n d e n tly
9 to run a job. 10 l Do you know i f th e r e is l i t e r a t u r e 11 t h a t accom panies th e se t r a i n i n g p e rio d s and t r a i n i n g 12 s ass io n s t h a t c o n ta in s in fo rm a tio n a b o u t t o x i c i t y and 13 h a z a rd s a s s :>ciatad w ith s p e c i f i c ch e m ic a ls? 14 ' I d o n ' t know s p e c i f i c a l l y w h a t's t h e r e , 15 b u t i t ' s su'posed to show the guy how to run i t , how 16 to run i t s a f e l y .ad p r o t e c t h im s e lf an d keep th e th in g 17 in c o n t r o l . 18 Q And do vou know w h eth er w orkers a r e 19 a l s o a d v is e d o f su sp e c te d h e a lth h a z a r d s 0 You may have 20 a c h e m ic a l t h a t 's q u e s tio n a b le and you t h i n k , "We a r e 21 n o t su re a b o u t t h a t b u t we th in k i t does th e fcUowing 22 t h in g s , be c a r e f u l " ? 23 A I have ',ome p e rs o n a l e x p e rie n c e . Now, 24 how much i s done w here to whom and how, I d o n 't know. 25 Q What i s your p e rs o n a l e x p e rie n c e ?
JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
#
1 A This was w ith r e g a r d to some r e q u i r e
2 ments t h a t we had to t a l k to peo p le a b o u t benzene In
3 the workplace* l h a t 's J u s t a p erso n al ex p erien ce,
A Q * And was benzene a su b s ta n c e t h a t you
5 nay n o t have had co n c lu siv e p ro o f on as to what i t 6 ca u sed , i f a n y th in g , b u t th e re was a s tro n g s u s p ic io n 7 o r , a t l e a s t , i t was su sp e c te d a s b ein g h azard o u s? 8 A Yedit i t was in t h a t l i g h t -- 9 v Kind of a gray a re a ? 10 ifcat we ta lk e d to cu r o p e ra to r* a b o u t , n said i t 's susnected of th is , studying i t , they a re 12 r u n n in c t e s t s on i t and w h atev er d e v e lo p s w e 'l l k eep 13 you in f o r tr e j, U ; And th e purpose o f t h a t was to r e 15 i t e r a t e th e y sh o u ld be c a r e f u l in u s in g i t , b e in g ex p o sed l to th is k in d o f s t u f f ? 17 A I d o n 't know i f i t wa3 t h a t . They 18 knew t h a t . I th in k i.t was T.ore o f a "'*e ie a rr. c o r e , 19 we' l l t e l l you more " type o f th in g a b o u t w hat y o u 'r e
20
working w ith and things you're cakin'?. 21 0 And you a g re e w ith th a c p o lic y , d o n ' t 22 you? 23
A Sure.
24
Q And a s P la n t Manager would you be 25
re s p o n s ib le to see th a t th a t k in d o f th in g w ent on a s
JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
you became aw are, w e ll, l i k e , in th e benzene s itu a tio n ?
2 A In terms of th e o v e ra ll s i t e a u th o rity ,
3 y a t b u t I d i d n 't a c t u a l l y go do i t . The s u p e rv is o rs
4 and th e foremen in the o p eratin g area s and the m ainten
5 an ce a r e a s d id i t , T h ey 'd a c t u a l l y ta k e th e men and
6 s i t down and t a l k to them o r have s a f e t y m eetin gs or
7 in fo rm al m eetings and t e l l them.
8 Q W asn't an y th in g out of the o rd in ary
9 about th is benzene example you c ite d a t a l l , than?
10 A No.
n Q And i f th e men w ere to f in d o u t t h i s
12 new in fo rm a tio n , t h a t 's p r a c t i c a l l y th e o n ly p la c e th e y 13 co u ld have ?ound i t out is th ro u g h a v e h ic le l i k e t h a t 14 o r the plan** coming fo rw ard and t e l l i n g them?
15 / I d o n 't knc^7 a b o u t t h a t . 16 0 You w ere P la n t M anager. Does M onsanto 17 have th e p o lic y t h a t shows th e f u n c tio n o f a p l a n t 18 p h y s ic ia n , p la n t d o c to r? 19 A I d o n 't know w h eth e r th e y do o r n o t. 20 I d o n 't remember.
21 0 Did you w ork w ith th e p la n t p h y s ic ia n
22 when you w ere P la n t Manager?
23 A W ith him?
24
V,
25
Q
V e il, d id you haveone under
you?
A W ell, y e a h , O.K.
JAMES MAY REPO R TIN G SERVICE
A.
Q He was g e n e r a l l y th e r e ? A He was p a r t tim e . Q What d id you e x p e c t him to do? A Hake su re th e a n n u a l p h y sic als-w ere c o n d u c ted , make su re t h a t th e n e c e s s a r y m e d ic a l re c o rd s and re p o rts were kept c u rre n t and up to d a te , look a f t e r f i r s t - a i d ty p e tr e a tm e n t, make s u re a b o u t h o s p i t a l ad m issio n s, was fa m ilia r w ith a n y th in g unique ab o u t the p ro cesses in the o p e ra tio n s in case th e re was an a c c i d e n t , f i r e , e x p lo s io n a t th e p l a n t . He was s o r t o f the guy who i f he had to have o th e r p h y s ic ia n s o r h e lp , had to take people to th e h o s p ita l in town, he s o r t o f knew w hat to t e l l th e em ergency room people and o th er n 2 d ir.il a tte n d a n ts what to do in s p e c ia l cases and th in g s ''ik e t h a t . 0 Did M onsanto, th a t you know, have any req u irem en ts fo r a p la n t o h y sician ? Did he have to be a s p e c i a l i s t , did he have to have nay in d u s t r i a l hygiene experience or anything lik e th a t, in d u s tria l m edicine? A No, I 'd o n 't know. Q You j u s t d o n 't know?
No. C I f a p la n t had a m edical program or m edical m onitoring program, would th e p la n t
JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE
s
.> *
1
1 2 3 4 5
6
7 8 9 10
n
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
p h y sic ia n be in charge o f th a t o r a t l e a s t keep an eye on i t ?
A In my c a s e he d id . Q Did you have a m edical .M onitoring program a t your p lan t? A Yes. What p la n t i-ras th a t ? A Ann i s t o n . 3 '.-/as t h a t in c o n n e c tio n w ith N iran ? i Y e c.
0 Did you re c e iv e rec o rd s from a m ed ical m o n ito rin g o la n from M itro w i t h re g a rd t*.i t h e N iran ?
^0.
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l o t know i f th e re
;i aedical
m o n ito rin g program a t M ltro re :,itir-.g to .'5ran ?
A I dor:1*: know. "_t ta;-: h.vfore ay tim e .
'`h a t t '.t<? ' . y i d f :;.u 1 m o n ito rin g p ro -
gram did
they have
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Q A n"th i:* -r e ?; 2 0
* T h atfs a ll.
3 How o f te n d id you do ths t? Did th e y do th a t every q u arter?
A I t depended upon the work group and the frequency of co n tact and possible exposure. L ike,
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th e o p e ra to rs would be more fre q u e n t than m echanics and th e en g in eers would be le s s fre q u en t than the m echanics u n t i l th e y g o t to me, and th e y pumped blood o u t o f me e v e ry s i x m onths.
J And as a p a r t o f t h a t program was I t e x p la in e d to the men why th e y w ere b e in g te s te d ?
A S u re . They knew a b o u t i t . q And n o th in g u n u su a l ab o u t th r t e i t h e r ? A Tio . I* T k rt would have been M onsanto1a p o lic y , a s f a r a s you know? A 1 Ion ! t knew. I t u a - r 11.: my p l a n t .
t u t you saw to I t I t wr' done, r i g h t ?
A; v1:rj.*:y t-:-11 >'o;i t h a t ''* d id you j u s t co i t :in your; own?
A V ' . " y m-r d ". i r ; r t when T rnt
t h e r e , k e p t :>n d o in g f t .
Q Did yr?u e v e r s e?.r r th e M ttro H e a lth Study Task Force?
Yes.
A '.'ere you a v e r on c h a t Tr.sk F o rce? A Mo.
Q the Task Force?
Vera you copiec w itn inform ation from
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M iybe,
A
I don' t know. I don' t th in k so .
Q w ith your work?
Did you h e a r a b o u t i t in c o n n e c tio n
A No , s Lc.
Q So you're say in g i t was j u s t ta lk or s c u t t l e b u t t , or what?
A J u s t Calk about th is Task Force th a t was b ein g put to g e th e r to look a t the h e a lth assessm en t situ a tio n a t N itro.
Q Did you u n d e rsta n d why i t was form ed? A No.
Q Did you h e a r why i t was formed?
A No, I don' t th in k I e v e r d id .
Q Did you e v e r ask?
A No.
Q Did you e v e r h ear of Raymond S u sk in d ?
A Yes.
Q What did you h e a r a b o u t Raymond S u sk in d ? A His name. Q In connection w ith what?
A I can' t remember. I 'v e heard th a t name. Q Did you e v e r see th e man?
A No, n o t th a t I 'd know.
Q You don' t knew a n y th in g a b o u t h is h e a l t h
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* i
1 2 3 4 5
6
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s tu d i e s on th e N itr o work f o rc e ?
-* , V:-
Tr- A
I do n o t.
Q Except what you read in the paper?
A R ight.
Q Do you r e p o r t to D r. C a lli s ?
A No.
Q H e's e n t ir e ly s e p a ra te from you?
A Yes.
Q from you?
A Q
M edical D epartm ent e n tir e ly sep arate,- . t -
- . *. N,`
1*" -*' >
Y es. When youfce c h e c k in g to see i f th in g s
*
are in accordance w ith th e se v aricu s f e d e r a l laws f you
have occasion to d eal w ith the M edical Department?
A Not very o fte n .
Q When you do, who do you t a l k to over , there?
A Most o fte n I ta lk about proposed r u le s .
Not ru le s in e f f e c t.
Q So who do you t a l k to o v er th e re ?
A I ta lk to the toxicology people.
Q Anybody in p a r tic u la r ?
A Dr. George L e v in s k a s. Q Anybody e ls e ?
A Yeah. A nother to x ic o lo g is t, Joe Hansen.
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Q 0,K. I want to hand you w h at's been marked P l a i n t i f f s * E x h ib it 303 (Monsanto #233610 through #233612).
Have you had a chance to lo o k a t t h a t document?
A Yes. Q I t ' s on M onsanto l e t t e r h e a d , i s i t n o t? A Yes. Q A n d i t a p p e a rs to be a memorandum d a te d J u n e 5, 1979, over 3. Edward P a g e t's s ig n a tu r e , is th a t rig h t? A That's rig h t.
Q And y o u 'r e shown as a eo pyee o r you got a carbon copy of it?
A Yes. Q Do you see th a t? A Yes. Q Is th e re any reason to b e lie v e you d id n 't get a copy of it? A No. Q Do you remember g e t t i n g a copy o f i t ? A No. Q Mr. J e s s e e , I'm g o i n g t o a s k you to read th is document to the ju r y ,b u t i t w o n 't be n e c e ssa ry f o r you a c t u a l l y to re a d i t now.f The c o u r t r e p o r t e r
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r*
* 1 w i l l sim p ly i n s e r t the t e x t o f t h i s document th e same
2 as though y o u 'd read i t , Q.K.? 3 HR. PLESKA; We have no objection to 4 th a t. I might ask i f counsel is going to 5 mark the e x h i b i t from p o in t "A" to "B" 6 where the re p o rte r is to tra n s c rib e . 7 Q (By Mr. C a lw e ll) I ' l l a s k you to re a d 8 from nAMf w hich w i l l b egin w ith th e f i r s t p a ra g ra p h on 9 page l f and end a t "S" on page 3. T hat j u s t c o v e rs th e .
10 te x t of i t and leaves out the r e s t.
11 A '`C h lo rin a te d o rth o d ib e n zo d io x in s
12 a r e r e f e r r e d to in t h i s memo a s 'd i o x i n s ' u n le s s a 13 s p e c i f i c compound is m en tio n ed . 14 come Axioms. Some c h lo r in a te d d io x in s a r e 15 e x tre m e ly to x ic to L ab o rato ry an im als and one ( 2 ,3 ,7 ,8 16 t e t r a c h l o r o d ib e n zo d io x in - 2 ,3 ,7 ,8 TCDD) has some 17 c la im to be th e most to x ic su b sta n c e known to man, a t 13 l e a s t a s ju d g e d on th e r e s u l t s o f a d m in is tr a tio n to a 19 w ide ra n g e o f L a b o ra to ry s p e c ie s . Profound e x p e rim e n ta l 20 b io lo g ical e ffe c ts - carcinogenesis, teratogenesis 21 and l i k e e f f e c t s - a r e found .n some s p e c ie s a t t o t a l 22 l i f e tim e d o ses o f the o rd e r o f 10 m icrogram s p e r k ilo g ram s 23 These to x ic e f f e c t s a r e h ig h ly isom er s p e c i f i c , 24 and some c h lo r in a te d d io x in s a r e , by com parison a lm o st 25 in n o c u o u s.
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r*
Evidence of profound to x ic ity even of 2 ,3 ,7 ,8 TCDD to man is la c k in g and th e most s e r io u s i l l e f f e c t c l e a r l y r e l a t e d to human exposure to TCDD is c h lo ra c n e . I t i s a t l e a s t p o s s ib le t h a t man i s more r e s i s t a n t to TCDD th an most o th e r s p e c ie s , b u t th e e v id e n c e is no more th a n s u g g e s tiv e gnd ca n n o t be r e l i e d upon.
D ioxins a re produced in a v ery wide v a r ie ty of circum stances in n a tu re , in combustion processes of a l l kinds and a p p a re n tly a ls o in sm all amounts (ppb and o p t' henevsr einr-le arom atic stru c tu re s are c h lo rin a te d .
a n a ly sis of dioxins a t the s ta te of the a r t can be a c h ie v e d a t le v e ls o f o p t, b u t t h is r e q u ir e s g r e a t workup th e sam ple, a d e d ic a te d dC MS and s e v e r a l cay's w ork, '"-irk a .'-s ly s is is n o t p r a c t i c a l on a daily q .c . b a s ic , ^ ith any sc-Mp tab l* le v e l o f re so u rc e a l l o ca tio n .
Causes of Concern - 1. *D io"ir.s, the Most P oisonous S u b sta n c e s Kncr-m to ''an* Is now a media c l ic h e and e l i c i t s sh u d d ers o f h o r ro r a-m o st e q u a l to "A Sea o f C a rc in o g e n s 1 or *Love C a n a l.1 We m ust be s e n s i t i v e to t h i s p u b lic aw areness and be p rep ared :;ith d a ta and a response i f 'M onsanto dioxins* reach the p u b lic eye as they did in th e n o to rio u s Sturgeon s p il l (no m atter what the a c tu a l f a c ts were in th a t c a s e ).
2. A gencies w ill be lo o k in g f o r ' d io x in s*
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wherever they could conceivably be p resen t bearing in
mind 1, above ( c . f . FDA in q u ir y o f Krummrich p l a n t ) .
3. In c e rta in circum stances, dioxins could pre-
s e n t a h azard to w orkers or cu sto m er and we must be aw are
of what such circum stances might be and the e x ten t of the
hazard.
4 . Dow fo u le d up th e d io x in scene by i l l -
judged b e h a v io r. V'e must be s e n s i t i v e enough to th e
is s u e s to av oid doing t h a t , b u t we must a v o id p e n a liz in g
>'on*-*spr.o by going beyond what is n e e d fu l and r e s p o n s ib le ; .
in our reac tio n s to these agents as w ith any o th er 's c a r y 1
s itu atio n .
Ihe Needs - We must e v e n tu a l ly e s t a b l i s h
sp-eu i f ic a ir o n s do* d io x in c o n te n t in p ro d u c ts and w a ste s
th a t c o n ta in them, and >X"?dL h ere th e y a r e l i k e l y to be
en c o u n tered and f i n a l l y we must c o n s id e r w aste and e f f l u -
one of a l l s o r t s f o r the. l i k e l y o e n u ; r .* of d an g ero u s
d io x in s and i f such occurr-.in'f i a t ,, l i k e l y we m ust
in s titu te a m onitoring program.
To do th e se th in g s i n t e l l i g e n t l y and re s p o n -
s i b l y , we n u s t he armed w ith as many
as possible.
The f a c ts we need a r e ; 1. A su rv e y o f
products, p ro cessesf and w astes and an id e n tific a tio n of
th o se t h a t e re l i k e l y no c o n ta in d io x in s .
2, Generic a n a ly sis fo r dioxins in a l l such
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c irc u m sta n c e s down to f a i r l y r e a d i l y re a c h e d le v e ls (? ppb) and where h ig h le v e ls o f g e n e ric d io x in s a re e n c o u n te re d , isom er i d e n t i f i c a t i o n down to p p t sh o u ld be considered.
3. I d e n tif ic a tio n of products fo r which a d io x in c o n te n t s p e c if ic a tio n should be s e t , b e a rin g in mind th e r e s u l t s of 2 . and an a n a l y s i s o f p o s s ib le human exposure. ( I t is probably unnecessary, fo r example, to set a sp e c ific a tio n fo r dioxins in products th a t are r only used as In term ed lates and where th e end process is c e rta in to d estro y them).
4. Id e n tific a tio n of workplaces and w aste stream s whore d io x in s .may o c c u r, and the e s ta b lis h m e n t jf limits ior each case.
1 . ;e m ust have th e c a p a b i l i t y o f i n s t a n t a c tio n when q u e s tio n s a b o u t d io x in l e v e l s o f our p ro d u c t a r is e as u rgencies - s p i l l s , e x p lo sio n s, mishaps, misuse We must n o t l e t a g e n c ie s o r t h e i r r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s d e t e c t and measure 'o u r 1 dioxin*; fo r as and then t e l l us the r e s u l t s a r e i n t o l e r a b l e . We must be f i r s t w ith i n f o r m a tio n . I t =ee.Tis to me t h a t s e v e r a l le v e ls o f a c t i v i t y a re needed - q .c . a n a ly s is probably to le v e ls of ppb (o r even ppm may s u f f i c e ) .
In v e s tig a to ry c a p a b ility in the f i r s t examine tio n of a problem . This must be s ta te of the a r t .
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1 Response a n a ly s is . This a ls o must be a u th o ri
2 ta tiv e and s ta te of the a r t . 3 Inasmuch as the l a t t e r two types of a n a ly s is a re 4 n o n - ro u tin e b u t r e c u r r e n t and c o n tin u o u s , i t seems to me 5 th a t Monsanto should have a d e d ic a te d f a c i l i t y a t the 6 s ta te of the a r t and indeed, c o n trib u tin g to i t . " 7 Q A ll r i g h t . Mr. J e s s e e , you have Ex 8 h i b i t 303 b e fo re you. Do you knew why you would have 9 been a copyee of th is document? 10 A I can s p e c u la te on i t . As in fo rm a 11 t i o n a l a s a member o f th e s t a f f we m ight have some f u t u r e 12 need to be c a lle d in f o r some r e a s o n , b u t t h a t 's a l l I 13 can th in k o f. 14 Q A ll r i g h t . And the document makes 15 r e f e r e n c e to ag en cy i n q u i r i e s a t a c o u p le o f p la c e s . 16 Do you know I f th o se a g e n c ie s m ig h t be r e l a t e d to your 17 r e s p o n s i b i l i t y un d er th e S o lid Waste A ct o r th e S uperfu n d ? 18 A No, I d o n 't th in k th e y would b e. 19 Q And on page 2 o f t h a t docum ent th e r e 20 i s a second p a ra g ra p h numbered 4 on t h a t page. I t ' s down 21 n e x t to th e bottom o f th e p a g e . 22 A Yes, 23 Q I t r e a d s , " I d e n t i f i c a t i o n o f w o rk p lace s 24 and w aste strea m s where d io x in s may o c c u r ." Would t h a t 25 have a n y th in g to do w ith dump s i t e s ?
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1 A No, I d o n 't th in k so .
2 q A ll r i g h t . L e t me have 303 back. 3 I hand you w h a t's been -narked P l a i n t i f f s '
4 E x h ib it #304 (Monsanto #232571 through 232574), and ask 5 you to take a look a t th a t. 6 A ll r i g h t , Mr. J e s s e e , E x h ib it 304 7 is captioned "C h lo rin ated Dibenzo D ioxins, a P o sitio n 8 P aper f o r C o n s id e ra tio n by M. C. T h ro d a h l," and i t ' s 9 w r i t t e n o v er G. Edward P a g e t 's s i g n a t u r e , c o r r e c t? 10 A Y es. n Q And i t ' s d a te d June 2 6 , 1979? 12 A R ig h t. 13 Q And y o u 'r e shown a s h av in g a g re e d to 14 t h i s docum ent, i s t h a t c o r r e c t ? 15 A Yeah, in te r n s o f th e d is c u s s io n under 16 w hich M onsanto was to e l e c t to become or g e t w h atev er i t 17 needed to become h ig h ly p r o f i c t e n t in a n a l y t i c a l w ork, v es. 18 Q Was t h a t a s p e c i f i c p a r t o f t h i s e x 19 h i b i t t h a t you a g re e d to ? 20 A No, I j u s t remember th e c o n d itio n s 21 u n d er w hich th e d is c u s s io n was b ro u g h t fo rw a rd , and the 22 q u e s tio n b e fo re the house was should Monsanto o b ta in , 23 a c q u ir e and become h ig h ly p r o f i c i e n t in th e a n a l y t i c a l 24 c a p a b i l i t y o f tr a c e q u a n t i t i e s o f m a t e r i a l s , and a bunch 25 o f us ta lk e d a b o u t i t an d we s a i d , y e s , we th in k we s h o u ld .
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Q Was t h i s a t a m eetin g o r som ething? You s a id th e c o n d itio n s u n d er w hich --
A Yeah, The g e n e r a l c irc u m sta n c e s I r e c a l l i s , one, should Monsanto have w o rld class a n a ly tic a l c a p a b ility to do t h i s .
Q You know why you were in c lu d e d in t h is ? A W ell, i t has to qo a b i t w ith th e process a s s o c ia tio n , I guess, and p o ssib le fu tu re need to knew t h i s a b o u t th in g s , w hich I m ight have some r e s p o n s ib ility . That*s a l l 1 can say. Q In connection w ith your Superfund and S o lid W aste, th a t kind of work? A Could be or o n ld be th e f a c t - - S ee, som ething lik e th is , sin c e I had had a lo t of p la n t e x p e rie n c e and p ro c e ss e x p e rie n c e , th e y in v ite d me to th is th in g , as I r e c a l l . I t was th a t kind of a c tio n . Q I would lik e fo r you to read to the j u r y c e r t a i n p o r tio n s of t h i s ir o n ' a" to ''B*' .
MR. PLSSKA: And yoi w i l l i n s e r t in th e re c o rd th o se p o r tio n s betw een "A" and "5 r as though Mr. Je sse e read them. A " P re p a re d by G. E, P a g e t, A greed by C. F. C a l l i s , W. D. C a rp e n te r, J . T, G a r r e t t , G. L. J e s s e e H. F. M ieu re. W. 3 . P apag eo rg e, p. S . P a rk , George R oush, J r . , M. D ., B. G. Ward and M. C. T h ro d a h l.
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1 This paper is the outcome of s e v e ra l d isc u ssio n s
2 on th e s u b je c t of c h lo rin a te d dibenzo d io x in s and c o n ta in s 3 su ggested p o lic ie s and reconsnenaed a c tio n s . 4 N om enclature - I t i s common f o r th e c l a s s of 5 compounds under d is c u s s io n to be r e f e r r e d to a s 'd i o x i n s '
6
( c . f . Krummrich c i t a t i o n ) . This is i n c o r r e c t . We a r e 7
s p e c ific a lly considering ch lo rin ated dibenzo d io x in s,
8
and to avoid f a llin g in to the tra p of loose nomencla 9
tu r e , th i^ whole c la s s w i l l be r e f e r re d to h ere a s CDD's. ' 10
Of p a r t i c u l a r concern w ith in t h a t g e n e ric c l a s s a r e th e
11
t e t r a c h l o r i n a t e d specie? and t h i s group (o f 22 iso m e rs) 12
w i l l he r e f e r r e d to as TfD D 's. Of th i s group o f 22 13
iso m e rs, one {** of p a r t i c u l a r c o n c e rn . This is th e 14
2 ,3 ,7 ,8 isom er and th is w i l l be r e f e r r e d to a s 2 ,3 ,7 ,8 15
TCDD. l Background 3Lology - S e v e ra l CDD' s a r e ex 17 tre m e ly to x ic e x p e rim e n ta lly and 2 ,3 ,7 ,3 TCDD is e s 18 p e c i a l l y s o . In v a rio u s an im al s p e c ie s , in g le d o ses 19 o f 2 , 3 , 7 f 8 TCDD o f th e o rd e r o f 1 - 6 m icrogram s p e r
20 k ilo g ram s produce se rio u s and i r r e v e r s i b l e ch a n g es,
21 ra n g in g from d e a th th ro u g h te r a to g e n e s is and c a r c i n o
22 g e n e sis to lo n g - la s tin g b io c h em ical a n o m a lie s.
23 Knowledge o f th e to x ic o lo g y o f CDD and 2 ,3 ,7 ,8 24 TCDD in p a r t i c u l a r is s t i l l f a r from co m p reh en siv e. 25 Even more in co m p lete 1b knowledge o f human
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---- ---l-- 1 re sp o n se to th e se m a te r ia ls . I t i s known t h a t th e m ost 2 obvious re sp o n se is c h lo ra c n e , and t h a t CDD's a r e power3 f u l causes of th is co n d itio n . Other e ffe c ts of exposure 4 a re le s s w e ll e s ta b lis h e d . However, evidence su g g ests 5 in c o n c lu s iv e ly t h a t humans may be l e s s s u s c e p ti b le to 6 CDD t o x i c i t y th an most la b o r a to r y s p e c ie s . In th e 7 e x p e rim e n ta l a n im a l, th e h a l f - l i f e o f TCDD! s i s o f 8 th e o rd e r o f 30 days. In th e en v iro n m en t TCDD's a r e 9 more s t a b l e , w ith a h a l f - l i f e o f c i r c a one y e a r. They 10 a r e f ir m ly bound to s o i l and do n o t r e a d i l y m ig r a te . 11 In th e ab sen ce o f p r e c i s e knowledge o f human 12 s u s c e p t i b i l i t y , and in view o f th e ex trem e s e n s i t i v i t y 13 o f some s p e c i e s , i t is obvious t h a t v e ry sm a ll am ounts 14 o f TCDD in th e hunan en v iro n m e n t, in c e r t a i n c irc u m 15 s ta n c e s o f in tim a te e x p o su re , or o f abuse o r m is u se , o r 16 c a s u a l w orker p ro c e d u re s , m y (we r e p e a t m ay), have 17 s i g n i f i c a n c e . 18 Background C h em istry - I t a p p e a rs t h a t In 19 th e v e ry s n a i l c o n c e n tr a tio n of w hich we sp eak o f CDD's 20 ( p a r ts p e r b i l l i o n and p a r ts p er t r i l l i o n , o r nanogram s 21 p er m2 )V CDD's can be formed u n d er a wide v a r i e t y o f 22 c o n d i tio n s . T h e/ a p p e a r to be v e ry f r e q u e n tly form ed 23 by com bustion o f many m a te r ia ls and may, t h e r e f o r e , be 24 o f u b iq u ito u s ap p e aran c e a t low l e v e ls in th e e n v iro n 25 nient. Of im p o rtan ce to M onsanto is th e f a c t t h a t i t
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a p p e a rs t h a t th e y may be form ed when a n y a ro m a tic su b stance Is chlorinated under in d u s tria l conditions where, f o r exam ple, some w a te r u s u a l l y c o n ta m in a te s s o - c a l l e d d ry in te rm e d ia te s a lth o u g h some c h e m ic a l p ro c e s s e s (ch lo rin atio n of phenols under a lk a lin e con d itio n s (w ith h e a t) a r e more l i k e l y to produce CDD's th a n o th e r s . Be cause of M onsanto's involvem ent w ith such p ro cesses a t s e v e r a l l o c a t i o n s , CDD's a r e o f p a r t i c u l a r co n c ern to u s .
A n aly tical Background. I t is im portant to d i s t i n g u i s h between d e t e c t io n o f CDD's g e n e r i c a l l y , th e d e te c tio n o f TCDD's g e n e r i c a l l y , and th e s p e c i f i c i d e n t i f i c a tio n otf 2 ,3 ,7 ,8 TCDD.
Many l a b o r a t o r i e s , in c lu d in g M onsanto, can perform the f i r s t two I d a n t i f l e a Cions a t h ig h le v e ls o f s e n s i t i v i t y . Few car: p erfo rm s p e c ific * 2 , 3 , 7 ,8 TCDD a n a ly s is a t h ig h s e n s i t i v i t y . Some t h a t c la im to be a b le to do so a r e m ista k e n . I t is p ro b a b le t h a t Dow can perform th is a n a ly s is , alth o u g h thev do n o t do so ro u tin e ly , and th a t the U n iv ersity of Nebraska cannot do so a t p rese n t.
I t is a l s o im p o rta n t to b e a r in mind th e -m atrix In which th e CDD o f i n t e r e s t i s found. Some m atrices - w ater fo r example - p re se n t few er problems than o th ers and Monsanto a n a ly s ts a re a lre a d y c a p a b le o f p erfo rm in g a n a ly s is o f TCDD in su c h m a tric e s a t v e ry h ig h
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1 le v e ls of s e n s itiv ity . Other m atrices, p a rtic u la rly 2 p r o d u c ts , p r e s e n t v e ry many more d i f f i c u l t i e s , and we 3 have to a c c e p t t h a t in some c irc u m s ta n c e s th e s t a t e 4 o f th e a r t w i l l n o t p e rm it low l e v e l CDD a n a l y s i s , and 5 p a r t i c u l a r l y 2 , 3 , 7 , 8 TCDD i d e n t i f i c a t i o n . A d d itio n a lly , achieving the ultim ate in 7 a n a l y t i c a l s e n s i t i v i t y f o r TCDD' s i s e x tre m e ly demanding 8 o f tim e and s k i l l e d la b o r . I t ca n n o t be u n d e rta k e n on 9 a routine Q u a lity assurance* basis w ith any acceptable 10 commitment o f r e s o u r c e s , b u t must be r e s e r v e d f o r 11 s p e c i a l c irc u m s ta n c e s . 12 M onsanto A n a ly tic a l C a p a b il ity . A lthough 13 Monsanto a n a l y t i c a l c a p a b i l i t y in t h i s f i e l d i s h ig h ly 14 ad v an ced , and i s o n ly s u rp a s s e d by two or th r e e o th e r 15 f a c i l i t i e s in th e w o rld , th e r e a r e a number o f ways in l w hich i t can be im proved, a l l in v o lv in g e x p e n d itu re on 17 c a p i t a l and on p r o f e s s io n a l e f f o r t . 18 Recommendations - A ll co n cern ed a g re e t h a t 19 Monsanto m ust have a n a l y t i c a l s k i l l in t h i s a r e a s u f f i c i e n t 20 to : 21 1, D eterm ine TCDD and i f n e c e s s a r y 2 ,3 ,7 22 TCDD a t le v e l s t h a t a r e b i o l o g i c a l l y r e l e v a n t . I n th e 23 p r e s e n t s t a t s o f knowledge a n a l y s i s o f TCDD*s in term s 24 o f p a r ts p e r t r i l l i o n , and s t a t e o f th e a r t s p e c i e i a t i o n 25 o f 2 ,3 ,7 .8 TCDD i s re g a rd e d a s b e in g b i o l o g i c a l l y r e l e v a n t .
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
2. A u th o rita tiv e ly confirm , rebut or pronounce upon o f f i c i a l sta te m e n ts a b o u t the presence o f TCDD o r o f 2 , 3 , 7 * 3 TCDD t h a t a r e v a l i d l y m a d e a n d t h a t re q u ire f a c tu a l in fo rm a tio n fo r r e b u tta l. Again th is req u ires access to a n a ly tic c a p a b ility as s e t out in 1. a b o v e .
A ll 2oneerned a g re e th a t these req u irem en ts n e c e s s ita te the developm ent ol a d ed icated a n a ly tic f a c i l i t y an d t h a t a t p r e s e n t a t l e a s t DahiVs la b o r a to r y a t .ikt f a y con seems the m o st s u i t a b l e s i t e . I t h a s th e ad v an tag e o f b eing b o th an a c c re d ite d 'lb o ra to ry , and having a c c re d ite d a n a ly s ts .
V o l l e y A b o u t A^ia Lys i s - As p o i n t e d o u t a b o v e , t h e m o s t s e n s i t i v e a : * a l / s c s t o r I v D D ' s o r 2 , 3 , 7 , 3 TCDD r e q u ir e 2 3e y e ra 1 day- ' w o rk . I t I s , th e r V fo re , La0 o s v. i b l e , e 3 p e c i a 1 l y i n t h e c a ; 0 o f c h l o r i n a t e d p r o d u c t s such as th e chlorophenol-.s to perform q u a li ty a s u ra n c e a n a l y s i s f o r ^ T C D D o r .v e o f o r CTD*.: r,\ ^ i c h b a t c h o f p ro d u ct or to m onitor e ff lu e n ts of w orkplace c o n tin u o u sly f o r TCDD o r C C D *3 w i t h a n y a c c e p t a b l e c o . t m i t m e n t o f r e s o u r c e s . T h e f o l l o w i n g s t e p s 3 'n o u l d b e t a k e n i n o r d e r c o d e v e l o p a p o l i c y a b o u t o n g o i n g CuD a r . l TCDD a n a l y s i s when th e c a p a b i l i t y is a v a ila b le * .
I . A l i s t w i l l be made o f a l l p r o c e s s e s th a t in the l ig h t o f f e a s ib le ch em istry m ight give r is e
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1 to CDD's in a w o rk p la c e , p ro d u c t o r e f f l u e n t . (Res
2 p o n sib ility : G arrett, C a llis , C arpenter, Papagaorge).
3 2 . This l i s t w i l l be a n n o ta te d w ith any
4 f a c t s known a b o u t CDD's in t h a t c o n t e s t and w ith ' th e 5 circum stances of use or worker exposure. (R esp o n sib ility as 1.) 7 3. In the lig h t of 2. a p r io rity l i s t w ill
8 be d e riv e d f o r c o n s id e r a ti o n . ( R e s p o n s ib ility : Page, 9 G a rre tt, C a llis , C arp en ter, P&pageorge).
10 4. DM'H (P a g e t, Roush, L av in sk as) w i l l
11 c o n s id e r th e l i s t by th e method o f 'w o r s t case a n a l y s i s ' 12 i . e . where knowledge e x i s t s a b o u t CDD i t w i l l be con 13 s id e r e d on the b a s is t h a t a l l CDD is 2 ,3 ,7 ,3 TCDD and 14 t h a t th e most ex trem e human ex p o su re c a l l e d f o r by 15 p ro d u c t use o r w o rk p lace p r a c t ic e w i l l o c c u r, and th a t 16 can Is j e n s i t i v a as th e most s e n s i t i v e s p e c ie s . I t i s 17 e x p e c te d t h a t even in t h i s w o rs t c a se such an a n a ly s is 18 w i l l show t h a t CDD's a r e b i o l o g i c a l l y i r r e l e v a n t in 19 most c ir c u m s ta n c e s . Where su ch a n a ly s is ioes n o t give 20 re a s o n a b le and l e g a l l y s u f f i c i e n t a s s u ra n c e (Respon 21 s i b i l i t y : P age, P ark ) o f th e s a f e t y of the c irc u m sta n c e s 22 c o n s id e r e d , th e p r e d i c t p ro c e s s o r e f f l u e n t w i l l be 23 l i s t e d a s a p o s s ib le f o r a n a l y t i c a l in v e s c ig c io n and th e 24 CDD a n a l y s t s w i l l be r e q u e s te d to d ev elo p a p p r o p r ia te 25 me th o d s .
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To p re v e n t e x c u rs io n in to u n n e c e ss a ry a n a ly s is a .p o lic y w i l l be developed f o r s c r u tin iz in g such a n a ly tic a l requests* ' (R esponsibility fo r developing discussion paper to lead to policy, Page, C arpenter, Park),
5. Irre sp e c tiv e of any of the foregoing, an aly ses e ith e r w ith in Monsanto or o u tsid e w ill alw ays be u n d ertak en a t a s t a t e o f th e a r t la b o ra to ry when an o f f i c i a l body such a s OSHA. o r o th e r agency ta k e s sam ples
a t a M onsanto s i t e t h a t w i l l be o r a r e l i k e l y to bw a n a ly z e d f o r CDD! s by th e ag en cy . In su ch c irc u m sta n c e s p a r a lle l samples w ith a u th e n tic a tio n and unbrokanr ch ain s o f cu sto d y w ill always be taken (as w i l l be th e ca se when any o f f i c i a l body takes samples a t a Monsanto s i t e ) and tra n sm itte d as soon as p o ssib le fo r a n a ly tic a l tr e a tm e n t to Ward (DMEH) o r when Monsanto f a c u l t y i s unequivocally in place and co n fid en t, to th a t f a c ility w ith n o t i f i c a t i o n to Pa g e t/G a r re t t - EMEH. The Mon s a n to f a c i l i t y w i l l alw ays be p r e f e r re d over o u ts id e f a c i l i t i e s when th e re q u ire d a n a ly s is is w ith in the dem onstrated c a p a b ility o f the Monsanto f a c i l i t y ,
6. Where w o rkplace ex p o su re to CDD's i s p o s s ib le , c o n s id e ra tio n w i l l be given to a p p r o p r ia te methods o f a re a and p erso n al m onitoring (Roush, P ag et, G arrett).
7. In view o f lik e lih o o d o f o f f i c i a l
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i n s i s t e n c e on 'a p p r o p r ia te b i o l o g i c a l m o n ito rin g f o r
d i o x i n s ' ( s i c ! ) EMEH (Roush) w i l l c o n s id e r w ith con
s u l t a n t s w hat may be a p p r o p r ia te m e d ic a l m o n ito rin g
f o r CDD ex p o su re and w i l l d ev e lo p a p o lic y ."
Q Mr. je s s e e , I w ant to hand you w h a t's
been narked P la in tif f * E x h ib it #305 (Monsanto #233618)
an d a s k yrn to tale a lo o k a t t h a t 9 s i r .
A ll r i g h t . Mr. J e s s e e , you have had
o c c a sio n to look a t E x h ib it 7#305f have you n o t?
A Uh huh (y e s) .
Q And i t , lik e w is e , i s on M onsanto
l e t t e r h e a d and a p p e a rs to be a memorandum d a te d June
11, 1979, over Phocion S. P a rk 's s ig n a tu re , is th a t
c o rre c t?
A Yes.
Q You know who Phocion S, P ark is ?
A Yes.
Q Who i s Phocion S.P ark?
A H e'sE n v iro n m en tal C ounsel f o r Mon-
s a n to Company. Q
H e's a lawyer?
A ies.
q And t h i s docum ent a l s o shows you a s
having been copied?
A yes, i t does.
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1 Q And i s t h i s E x h ib it #305 somehow 2 re la te d to E x h ib it #304? 3 A I t ' s c o n n e c te d to some o f t h a t s t u f f 4 I re a d a b o u t d is c u s s leans and m eetin g s p r i o r . 5 Q And t h a t would e x p la in your b e in g 6 on th e re ? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Can you t e l l me i f th e p o lic y su g g e ste d 9 by E x h ib it 304, or an aly zin g fo r th ese v ario u s su b stan ce s, 10 d io x in s and so f o r t h , was t h a t p o lic y im p lem en ted , da n you know? 12 A W ell, to th e e x t e n t o f d e v e lo p in g 13 th e c a p a b i l i t y to do i t , y e s , I know t h a t was d one, b u t 14 how f a r i t goes beyond t h a t I d o n 't know. 15 Q In c o n n e c tio n w ith your b e in g c a l l e d 16 in f o r th e d is c u s s io n s t h a t a r e v a r io u s l y r e f l e c t e d in 17 304 and r e f e r r e d to in 305, d id you le a r n i f M onsanto 18 had in* th a p a s t a tte m p te d to m o n ito r o r t e s t f o r d io x in s ? 19 A No. 20 Q You d o n 't know w h eth e r th e y d id o r n o t? 21 A I do n o t, 22 Q Didyou s u b s e q u e n tly le a r n t h a t th e y d id ? 23 A No. 24 MR. CALWELL: O .K ., M r. J e s s e e . Thank 25 you v e ry much.
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1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10
11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
STATE OF ILLINOIS )
) SS. COUNTY 0 ? MADISCN )
I , M. JOY SPRINGER, a N o t a r y P u b l i c , d u l y
comr.issioned nod q u a l i f i e d in and fo r the County of
Madison, c Lste of I l l i n o i s , do hereby c e r t i f y th a t
o u r s u a n t t o n o t i c e came b e f o r e me on t h e 1 1 t h d a y
o f J u l y , 1 983 , a t t h e R a d i s s o n H o t e l , Room 2 1 5 , 9 th
" t r a e t and Convention P la o a , St. Louis, M isso u ri,
'
CN2 L. JdSSSE, who was by me d u l y sw orn t o t e s t i f y
to the tru th and nothing but the tr u th of h is knowl*
edge t o u c h i n g a n d c or.c? rn Log t h e m a t t e r s i n c o n t r o -
v e r s y i n t h i s t o r; j. ; tla *: he -..ns t h e r e u p o n c a r e f u l l y
examined t o n oath, m j his :r.aniitaticn reduced to
w r i t i n g - i n f e r my s u p e r v i s i o n ; t h a t th e d e p o s i t i o n i s
3 tru e reco rd o f the t ^ r i m o n y riven by th e w i t n e s s ;
and s ig n a tu r e of the v ' f :v'yc war n o t waived.
I FURTHTR CFRTI7"7 t h a t I am n e i t h e r a t t o r n e y
nor counsel fo r nor r e l a t e d to nor employed by and
of the p arties to the actio n in which th is deposition
is taken; and fu rth e r, th a t I an not a r e la tiv e or
employee of any attorney* or counsel employed by the
p arties hereto, or fin a n c ia lly in te re s te d in the
a c tio n .
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, IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have h e re u n to s e t my hand an d { f ix e d my n o t a r i a l s e a l on t h i s _ _ _ _ _ day of Ju ly , 1983.
f i \i
N otary Public w ithin and fo r t . County of tfadisoh, S ta te of I l l i n o i s ,.
i ... ^
ff . ii !I i
i
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