Document OE11okJYqjQ5wbVRGamkJaKXK

1 NO. 95-04-1728-D 2 MANUEL P. GONZALES, ET AL,) Plaintiffs, ) 3 VS . ) ) 4 OWENS-CORNING FIBERGLAS ) ) 5 CORP., ET AL, ) Defendants ) 6 IN THE DISTRICT COURT CAMERON COUNTY, TEXAS 10 3RD JUDICIAL DISTRICT 7 8 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF 9 JOHN E. HODGES 10 11 12 ANSWERS AND VIDEOTAPED ORAL DEPOSITION OF 13 JOHN E. HODGES, a witness produced at the instance of 14 the Plaintiffs, taken in the above styled and numbered 15 cause on the 23rd day of September, 1997, at 16 2:15 p.m., before MICHELLE McDANIEL, a Certified 17 Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of Texas, at 18 the offices of MEREDITH, DONNELL & ABERNETHY, located 19 at 6850 Texas Commerce Tower, 600 Travis Street, in 20 the City of Houston, County of Harris, State of Texas, 21 in accordance with the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure, 22 the stipulations hereinafter set forth and pursuant to 23 Notice. 24 25 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 2 1 APPEARANCES 2 3 MR. C. ANDREW WATERS LAW OFFICES OF ANDREW WATERS 4 400 South Zang, Suite 500 Dallas, Texas 75208 5 APPEARING FOR PLAINTIFFS 6 7 MR. JAMES V. HEWITT 8 MEREDITH, DONNELL & ABERNETHY 6850 Texas Commerce Tower 9 600 Travis Street Houston, Texas 77002 10 APPEARING FOR DEFENDANT 11 BROWN & ROOT, INC. 12 13 MR. R. HARDING ERWIN, JR. MATTHIESEN & CHASE, L.L.P. 14 3003 Eleven Greenway Plaza Houston, Texas 77046 15 APPEARING FOR DEFENDANT 16 ARMCO 17 18 MR. JUAN GONZALEZ (via telephone) ADAMS & GRAHAM, L.L.P. 19 222 East Van Buren, West Tower Harlingen, Texas 78551 20 APPEARING FOR DEFENDANTS 21 W. R. GRACE and PITTSBURGH-CORNING CORPORATION 22 23 24 ALSO PRESENT: 25 DANIEL PARIS, VIDEOGRAPHER DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 3 1 INDEX 2 3 WITNESS: JOHN E. HODGES 4 5 Examination by Mr. Waters.............................................Page 7 6 Examination by Mr. Gonzalez . ....................................Page 164 7 Examination by Mr. Hewitt.............................................Page 166 8 Re-Examination by Mr. Waters................................ Page 171 9 Examination by Mr. Erwin.............................................Page 182 10 Re-Examination by Mr. Waters................................Page 183 11 12 Witness' Signature ....................................................... Page 184 13 Corrigendum.......................................................................... Page 185 14 Reporter's Certificate ........................................... Page 187 15 16 EXHIBITS: 17 (No exhibits were marked.) 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 4 1 AGREEMENTS 2 3 AS PER RULE 11, the following agreements were 4 agreed to by and between the parties thereto, through 5 their respective attorneys appearing herein: 6 IT IS HEREBY agreed by and between the parties 7 hereto, through their attorneys appearing nerein, that 8 any and all objections to any question, except as to 9 form, or answer, except as to responsiveness, 10 contained herein may be made upon the offering of this 11 deposition in evidence upon the trial of this cause 12 with the same force and effect as though the witness 13 were present in person and testifying from the witness 14 stand. 15 IT IS FURTHER agreed by and between the parties 16 hereto, that an objection made by one counsel for the 17 respective parties shall be considered good for all 18 other counsel present. 19 IT IS FURTHER agreed by and between the parties 20 hereto, through their attorneys appearing herein, that 21 this deposition may be signed before any Notary Public 22 and thereafter returned into Court and used upon the 23 trial of this cause with the same force and effect as 24 though all requirements of the Rules and Statutes with 25 reference to signature and return had been fully DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 5 1 complied with. 2 IT IS FURTHER agreed by and between the parties 3 hereto, through their attorneys appearing herein, that 4 if the deposition is not signed and filed prior to any 5 hearing in this cause, that said deposition or a 6 certified copy thereof may be used on the trial of 7 this cause with the same force and effect as though 8 the same had been read and signed by the said witness. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 6 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 *** 3 MR. WATERS: Has he been 4 designated with respect to any particular 5 areas? 6 MR. HEWITT: Yeah. Mr. Hodges, I 7 think you'll see from the deposition 8 testimony, was out at the plant really for 9 a limited period of time with respect to 10 safety in the early Eighties. 11 MR. WATERS: Okay. 12 MR. HEWITT: And then for a short 13 period in the Seventies. And then beyond 14 that, you'll get his -- you'll have to ask 15 him guestions regarding his involvement. 16 MR. WATERS: All right. Fair 17 enough. 18 MR. HEWITT: But he is being -- he 19 is a Brown & Root employee. He's being 20 produced pursuant to the Court's 21 instructions. 22 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're on record 23 at 2:15 p.m. This is the videotape 24 deposition of John Hodges in the matter of 25 Manuel P. Gonzales, et al, versus DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 7 1 Owens-Corning Fiberglas Corporation, 2 et al. 3 Today's date is September 23rd, 4 1997. This deposition is being taken at 5 Meredith, Donnell & Abernethy, 600 Travis, 6 Suite 6850. 7 The videographer is Daniel Paris 8 with Diana Henjum Court Reporting 9 Services. Would counsel please announce 10 their appearance for the record. 11 MR. WATERS: Andy Waters for the 12 plaintiff. 13 MR. ERWIN: Harding Erwin for 14 Armco. 15 MR. HEWITT: Jim Hewitt for 16 Brown & Root USA, Incorporated. 17 * * * 18 JOHN E. HODGES 19 was called as a witness and, having been first duly 20 sworn by the court reporter, testified as follows: 21 * * * 22 EXAMINATION 23 * * * 24 BY MR. WATERS: 25 Q. Could you state your full name for the DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 8 1 record, sir? 2 A. John Edward Hodges. 3 MR. ERWIN: Not to interrupt; but, 4 Mr. Waters, can we have the same agreement 5 we had previously, that an objection by 6 one defendant is good for all defendants 7 present? 8 MR. WATERS: Yes. 9 MR. ERWIN: Thank you. 10 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) I'm sorry. Did you say 11 John Edward? 12 A. That's correct. E-d-w-a-r-d. 13 Q. 14 you, sir? Got you. All right. How old a man are 15 A. 48. 16 Q. How are you presently employed? 17 A. I'm employed by Brown & Root. 18 Q. In what capacity? 19 A. As a health safety and environmental 20 manager. 21 Q. How long have you had that title and 22 position? 23 A. At this particular title, about nine 24 months. 25 Q. All right. Sincelate -- DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 9 1 A. Since January. 2 Q. January of 1997? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. All right. Have you ever given a 5 deposition previously? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. Did that in any way relate to 8 asbestos or the hazards of asbestos? 9 A. No, sir. 10 Q. Fair enough. Did it involve other health 11 and safety matters with Brown & Root? 12 A. Yes, sir. 13 Q. You understand, then, that I'm going to be 14 asking you a series of questions, correct? 15 A. Yes, sir. 16 Q. If for any reason, you don't understand 17 one of my questions, doesn't make sense to you, or 18 whatever, would you stop me and ask me to rephrase it 19 or repeat it? 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. ' Okay. Prior to becoming manager -- let's 22 see. Is it health safety and environmental 23 management? 24 A. Yes, sir. That's correct. 25 . Q. Prior to that position, what was your DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 10 1 title? 2 A. Division safety manager. 3 Q. Division safety manager? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. And what division was that? 6 A. Forest products. / Q. Forest products? That was also for 8 Brown & Root? 9 A. That's correct, yes, sir. 10 Q. 11 products 7 Does B rown & Root manufacture Forest 12 A. No. We build paper mills, pulp mills, 13 plywood mills. 14 Q. Okay. So, that's the -- the construction 15 of the facilities that manufacture forest products? 16 A. Yes, sir. Yes, sir, that's correct. 17 Q. And how long were you the division safety 18 manager for forest products? 19 A. Basically since 1980. 20 Q. 1980 until January 1997? 21 A. That's correct. 22 Q. Does that -- did that work involve both 23 Brown & Root new construction, that is to say, of new 24 facilities; or did it also involve what I call 25 maintenance work or repair work to facilities that DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 11 1 were already in existence? 2 A. It would also involve what we call capital 3 improvements, what you're talking about, maintenance 4 facilities. 5 Q. Okay. Did, as part of that work, safety 6 manager -- division safety manager of forest products, 7 involve traveling on your part? 8 A. Yes, it did. 9 Q. Tell me some of the places that -- where 10 you would travel to -- to do that type of work. 11 A. Georgia, South Carolina, Canada, 12 California, Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona, Louisiana, 13 Alabama, Arkansas, Czech Republic. 14 Q. All right. So, Brown & Root would have 15 you travel throughout the United States as well as 16 overseas to perform your duties and responsibilities? 17 A. That's correct. 18 Q. And can you describe in a nutshell for me 19 what your duties and responsibilities were as division 20 safety manager for forest products 1980 to 1997? 21 A. I was a liaison between upper management 22 and the field safety person. I was also there to 23 provide guidance to the field safety person and be a 24 resource for him. 25 MR. HEWITT: Let's go off the DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 12 1 record. 2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It is 2:20 p.m. 3 We're off record. 4 MR. GONZALEZ: This is Juan 5 Gonzalez appearing for W. R. Grace and 6 Pittsburgh-Corning Corporation. Please 7 proceed. 8 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It is 2:22 p.m. 9 We're back on record. 10 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) So, you would be the 11 person -- the person between the safety people in the 12 field and at these particular sites and corporate 13 safety folks here in Houston? 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. All right. And who was your immediate 16 superior in the time frame 1980 to 1997? If it 17 changed, you can just explain that to me. 18 A. My immediate superior would have been 19 Emil Zerr. 20 Q. Emil who? 21 A. Emil Zerr, Z-e-r-r. He was the division 22 president. 23 Q. And that's in the whole time frame, '80 to 24 '97? 25 A. No. It would have changed to John Redmond DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 13 1 (phonetic) in probably the last two years. 2 Q. Okay. As the division safety manager, did 3 you have responsibility that addressed environmental 4 matters? 5 A. Yes, sir. 6 Q. Okay. Did you do any work with 7 Mr. Drysdale or Mr. Gaines? 8 A. Yes, sir. 9 Q. Okay. Where would -- where would they fit 10 into the structure? Would they be above Mr. Zerr or 11 Mr. Redmond, or is there some way you could describe 12 that? 13 A. They were part of our corporate industrial 14 hygiene department. And they would be -- it's a -15 it's a corporate group that's separate from the 16 business units, but all business units use their 17 services. So, they had no reporting responsibilities 18 to Zerr or Redmond or vice versa. 19 Q. Okay. So, in terms of your involvement 20 with those fellows, would that be if you needed advice 21 concerning an environmental problem or something like 22 that? 23 A. That's correct. 24 Q. Okay. Let's find out a little bit about 25 how you got into this. When did you start working for DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 14 1 Brown & Root? 2 A. March the 12th, 1971. 3 Q. Okay. And where was that? 4 A. 4100 Clinton, Houston. 5 Q. Is that 6 A. That's the corporate headquarters. 7 Q. Corporate headquarters? And what was your 8 title at that time? 9 A. I believe it was administrative assistant. 10 Q. Were you involved with safety or 11 environmental matters at that time? 12 A. No, sir. 13 Q. When did you first become involved with 14 safety or environmental matters? 15 A. Probably two weeks after initial 16 employment. 17 Q. Okay. And what did -- what did -- what 18 did your title become? 19 A. I was still doing administrative -20 Q. All right. 21 A. -- assistant duties. 22 Q. So, still back in 1971, you began to 23 have some responsibilities for health and safety 24 matters? 25 A. That's correct. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 15 1 Q. All right. Could you describe what the 2 nature of your duties and responsibilities were when 3 you began to do that health and safety work in the 4 Spring of '71? 5 A. The Brown & Root upper safety management 6 personnel were reviewing the Occupational Safety and 7 Health Act for testimony to congress, and I was 8 involved with that portion of it. 9 Q. Brown & Root was reviewing the proposed 10 regulations at that time? 11 A. Right. The regulations were out. They 12 were just -- they had been put out for comment, for 13 review and comment. 14 Q. Okay. But they hadn't yet been finalized? 15 A. That's correct. They hadn't yet gone into 16 effect That's correct. 17 Q. Okay. And Brown & Root was reviewing 18 those with an eye towards what kind of impact it might 19 have on their operations? 20 A. That's correct, yes. 21 Q. Okay. Was it recognized at Brown & Root 22 that the regulations could have a significant impact 23 on you-all's operations? 24 MR. HEWITT: I object to the 25 speculative form of the question. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 17 1 specific duties and responsibilities, let's say, 2 during 1971? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. What would those have entailed? 5 A. All of this -- I still had the 6 administrative duties of the safety department. 7 Q. Okay. What -- what -- would have been 8 involved with administrative duties of the safety 9 department? 10 A. Paying the bills, processing safety class 11 orders, that sort of thing. 12 Q. Okay. So, you had general duties and 13 responsibilities of an administrative nature, and then 14 you had the specific assignment that dealt with the 15 OSHA -- the new OSHA regulations? 16 A. That's correct. 17 Q. All right. Did you understand that there 18 had been regulations in place -- or strike that. 19 Did you understand that there had been 20 threshold limit values in place before OSHA for 21 limitations on how much asbestos people should be 22 exposed to? 23 A. I was not aware -- I'm not aware of it. 24 MR. HEWITT: I object to the form 25 of that last question to the extent it's DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 18 1 overbroad, vague, and assumes facts not in 2 evidence. 3 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Has it -- was it your 4 experience that Brown & Root was aware of and 5 interested in and concerned about regulations that 6 applied to it's work and to its facilities? 7 MR. HEWITT: Objection; speculative 8 and overbroad. 9 A. I -- I don't know. I don't understand the 10 question. 11 MR. WATERS: Can you read the 12 question back to him, please? 13 (The requested portion of the 14 record was read by the 15 reporter.) 16 MR. HEWITT: I also object to the 17 question on the grounds that it's 18 compound. 19 A. Well, I would say they were concerned, 20 yes. That's -21 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) And, for example, from 2 2 your own personal experience, they were concerned 23 enough about the impending OSHA regulations that 24 they had you and Mr. Nystrom working on this project? 25 A. I -- I don't know how Keith got involved DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 19 1 in working on the project. I don't know if it was 2 from orders from Brown & Root or if it was b ecause he 3 was on a committee. I don't know. 4 Q. Okay. Well, if he was on a comm ittee for 5 Brown & -- you mean he might have been somet hing 6 outside of Brown & Root? 7 A. That' s correct, yes. 8 Q. Okay. Is there any reason you c an think 9 of why Brown & Root, under any circumstance, would not 10 be aware of regulations that applied to its 11 construction and other businesses? 12 MR. HEWITT Object to the 13 overbroad, vague, speculative form of the 14 question. 15 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You can answer. 16 A. No, I'm not aware of anything. 17 Q. In the time frame that you've been with 18 Brown & Root, has it been your experience that they 19 have been aware of commitments and requirements and 20 obligations that may be stated in State or Federal 21 regulations? 22 A.. Yes. 23 Q. What was Mr. Nystrom's position or title, 24 if you can recall, when you started? 25 A. I believe he was assistant safety manager. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 20 1 Q. Okay. Other than yourself and 2 Mr. Nystrom, was there anyone else at that time who 3 had a significant amount of responsibility for keeping 4 up with or understanding or taking a position about 5 the regulations? 6 A. Yes, there was. 7 Q. Who would that have been? 8 A. Tommy Chadwick was the safety manager. 9 Q. How do you spell that last name? 10 A. C-h-a-d-w-i-c-k. 11 Q. Is Mr. Chadwick still alive? 12 A. I believe he just died. 13 Q. Did, in fact, Brown & Root and you and 14 Mr. Nystrom come up with a Brown & Root position or 15 comments about the OSHA regulations pertaining to 16 asbestos? 17 MR. HEWITT: Objection; 18 speculative. 19 A. I believe Mr. Nystrom did. I did not. 20 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Mr. Nystrom would 21 have come up with some kind of a policy statement or 22 comments that could have been provided to the Federal 23 government during that time frame? 24 A. That's correct, yes. 25 Q. All right. Did you ever -- have you ever DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 1 seen any such document that 2 A. No, sir. No, sir. 3 Q. -- indicated -- okay, Did you attend any 4 hearings in Washington or anywhere else concerning 5 whether or not the regulations should come into play? 6 A. No, sir. 7 Q. Okay. Do you recall Brown & Root's 8 position on the various regulations? 9 A. You know, we -- we were for some and 10 against some. 11 Q. All right. Okay. Fair enough. That's -12 is it fair to say that there were certain provisions 13 of the proposed regulations that Brown & Root -- that 14 Brown & Root felt were unnecessary? 15 MR. HEWITT: Objection; 16 speculative, overbroad, and vague. 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. And Mr. Nystrom 19 or Brown & Root through Mr. Nystrom would have made 20 their position, whatever it was, concerning the 21 various parts of the regulations, would have made that 22 position -- put that position forward to the 23 U.S. government? 2 4 A. That's correct. 25 Q. Did Mr. Nystrom attend any hearings in DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 22 1 Washington or anywhere else? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And did -- did he stay involved in that 4 process, or did you stay involved in that -- let's 5 start over. 6 Did you stay involved with that process 7 with Mr. Nystrom on into '72, '73, that type of 8 thing? 9 A. No, sir. 10 Q. Okay. Did you understand as of 1971 that 11 the regulations called for a -- a reduction in the PEL 12 or permissibility exposure level that would take place 13 in 1975? Do you remember that? 14 A. Permissible exposure level to what? 15 Q . Of asbestos. 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. Did you understand or do yourecall 18 from your review of the OSHA regulations with 19 Mr. Nystrom that they required that monitoring be done 20 to determine if there were unsafe -- potentially 21 unsafe levels of asbestos in the air? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And do you recall that that was an initial 24 requirement and that if, in fact, the levels were 25 above the PEL, that then there were a bunch of other DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 23 1 requirements that you had to follow to make it -- make 2 the environment as safe as possible? 3 A. Yes, sir. 4 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 5 overbroad form of that last question. 6 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Could you restate your 7 answer, because I -- it may have gotten crossed over. 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Did you have any involvement in the early 10 1970s with actual implementation -- that is to say, 11 putting into effect -- for Brown & Root or 12 Brown & Root facilities the OSHA asbestos regulations? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And where would that have been? 15 A. It would have been at Southland Paper, 16 Sheldon Texas. 17 Q. Sheldon? 18 A. Sheldon. 19 Q. Where is that? 20 A. Out by Channelview. It's northeast part 21 of Houston. 22 Q. I knew about a Southland Paper Mill out 2 3 near Lufkin. 24 A. Same family. 25 Q. Same family but different plant? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 24 1 A. Correct. 2 Q. Okay. Was Brown & Root involved with the 3 construction process at the Channelview plant? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. Okay. Was that newconstruction, orwas 6 it more in the nature of repair or maintenance work? 7 A. It was mostly new construction. 8 Q. Okay. And what was your involvement with 9 implementing the OSHA -- or using the new OSHA 10 regulations out there? 11 A. We had to remove some transitesiding to 12 tie the two buildings together. 13 Q. Okay. And did you understand that that 14 transite siding was an asbestos material? 15 A. We understood that it contained asbestos. 16 yes. 17 Q. All right. And when would this have been, 18 still in '71; or have they moved on to '72? 19 A. That would be 1973. 20 Q. '13. Okay. Up until 1973, had you had 21 any involvement with implementing or applying the OSHA 22 regulations? 23 A. No, sir. 24 Q. And speaking with Mr. Nystrom or any of 25 the other safety -- Mr. Chadwick or any of the other DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 25 1 safety people that were there when you got there in 2 '71, did you understand that the new OSHA regulations 3 were going to require a whole new way of doing 4 business with respect to asbestos? 5, A . No, I didn't. 6 Q. Okay. Did you understand that there had 7 or had not been regulations in place previously that 8 applied to the use of or work around asbestos? 9 A. I -- I can't get specific to the asbestos 10 part of that. I know that they had a safety program 11 before OSHA came out. To what extent they were 12 dealing with -- with asbestos, I'm not sure. 13 Q. All right. 14 MR. HEWITT: To that last question, 15 I object on the ground it assumes facts 16 not in evidence and it's overbroad. 17 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) The -- you said about two 18 weeks you did -- you were an administrative assistant 19 and then you got this particular assignment to work 20 with Mr. Nystrom? 21 A. Yes, in addition to the administrative 22 duties. 23 Q. Right. 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. Okay. When you started this assignment DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 26 1 with Mr. Ny strom, was that the first time you learned 2 that asbest os was a hazardous or a regulated 3 substance? 4 A. Regulated, yes. 5 Q. Okay. Did you understand that it was 6 regulated b ecause it was considered to be hazardous? 7 A. That's correct. ' 8 Q. And did -- did Mr. Nystrom or anybody else 9 at the faci lity tell you about some of the hazards or 10 some of the diseases that asbestos could cause? 11 A. No, sir. 12 Q. Okay. Did you understand, for example, 13 that it was known that asbestos exposure could cause 14 lung cancer 15 A. Yes. 16 MR. HEWITT: I object to the form 17 of that question on the grounds as it's 18 phrased, it's overbroad and assumes facts 19 not in evidence when you say "known." 20 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Can you -- I'm 21 sorry. Can you repeat your answer? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Okay. Do you know if you learned that 24 information after you arrived at Brown & Root? 25 A. No, sir, I did not. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 27 1 Q. You knew that beforehand? 2 A. Yes, sir, I did. 3 Q. Okay. And -- and how was it that you 4 learned before getting to Brown & Root in March of 5 1971 that asbestos could cause lung cancer? 6 A. I don't know. 7 Q. Okay. I mean, that's fair.Let's -- 8 let's talk a little bit about your educational 9 background. That may help clear it up. 10 A. All right. 11 Q. Where did come -- how did you get to 12 Brown & Root? 13 A. I graduated from the University of 14 Southern Mississippi and moved to Texas on my way to 15 another job and went to work for Brown & Root 16 temporarily. 17 Q. And just never left? 18 A. Never left. 19 Q. Okay. University of Southern Mississippi, 20 when did you graduate? 21 A. 1971. 22 Q. '71? Did you spend any time in the 23 military? 24 A. No, sir, I did not. 25 Q. Okay. What was your draft status, do you DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 28 1 recal1? 2 A. I was 2--S from 1967 to 1969, and then I 3 was 1-A. 4 Q. Okay. 2-S is a student deferment? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. Okay. And then you were 1-A after that, 7 but you managed to dodge the bullet? 8 A. I was -- I was in the first lottery, but I 9 drew No. 353. 10 Q. Okay. What was your course of study at 11 the University of Southern Mississippi? 12 A. I have a bachelor of science in business 13 administration. 14 Q. Did you have anycourses thatrelated to 15 industrial hygiene or industrial safety? 16 A. I had some health courses. I don't -- I 17 don't recall it -- no industrial safety courses. 18 Q. Just sort of a more general health 19 courses? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. Do you believe that it's morelikely than 22 not that you would have learned, for example, the 23 information about asbestos in one of those health 24 courses? 25 MR. HEWITT: Objection; DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 29 1 speculative. 2 A. That's possible. 3 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Is there anywhere 4 else other than those courses where you think you 5 might have picked up that information about asbestos 6 and cancer? 7 MR. HEWITT: Objection; 8 speculative. 9 A. Possibly the news media. 10 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. When you arrived 11 at Brown & Root in March of 1971, you had that 12 knowledge, limited though it may have been, already, 13 correct? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. Okay. Did you understand from speaking 16 with people like Mr. Nystrom and Mr. Chadwick that 17 they were also aware of the fact that one of the 18 hazards of asbestos is that it can cause lung 19 cancer? 20 MR. HEWITT: Objection; speculative 21 and assumes facts not in evidence. 22 A. I don't remember them speaking 23 specifically about asbestos. 24 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Well, you recall them -- 25 you recall, obviously, having conversations with DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 30 1 Mr. Nystrom about asbestos with the -- in the context 2 of the regulations, correct? 3 A. I recall going over the regulations 4 totally with Mr. Nystrom. None of them really stick 5 out in my mind as being 'specific. 6 Q. Fair enough. Fair enough. 7 MR. HEWITT: To be fair to the 8 witness, just to -- obviously, the OSHA 9 standards involved much more than asbestos 10 that was promulgated -11 MR. WATERS: Right. And I -- 12 MR. HEWITT: That's -- 13 MR. WATERS: Right. 14 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) And I should tell you 15 that when -- when I'm asking you these questions, 16 I'm specifically asking about the asbestos 17 regulations. 18 Was your -- were your efforts on behalf of 19 Brown & Roo t and this idea of giving comments to the 20 government, were those restricted to asbestos 21 regulations ; or did they cover a broader -22 A. The whole 1926 standards. 23 Q. All right. All right. Let me ask because 24 I asked the question before a more general way, and 25 you may hav e interpreted it that way. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 31 1 With respect to the asbestos regulations 2 themselves, is it -- is it your recollection that -- 3 that Brown & Root's position was some of those may not 4 have been necessary? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Okay. Do you have any recollection one 7 way or another as you sit here today about -- about 8 what Brown & Root's position -- official position was 9 about the asbestos regulations? 10 MR. HEWITT: Objection; 11 speculative. 12 A. I'd like clarification, please. In 1971? 13 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Yes, sir. 14 A. No, sir. I'm not -- I don't have any 15 recollection at all. 16 Q. Okay. How about in '72 or '73? 17 A. I know that -- that the company wanted us 18 to follow the regulations. 19 Q. All right. As of March or April 1971, 20 you recognized, because you already knew about this 21 cancer connection, you recognized that the 22 regulations -- the purpose of the regulations was to 23 reduce or eliminate injuries resulting from exposure, 24 correct? 25 A. Illnesses, yes. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 32 1 Q. All right. Illnesses. Fair enough. 2 Did you ever take any -- any seminars or 3 have any other kind of training while at Brown & Root, 4 let's say up until 1980, concerning the diseases that 5 could be caused by asbestos? 6 A. Specific to asbestos, no. 7 Q. All right. Was there anybody at 8 Brown & Root who was responsible for providing 9 educational materials or seminars or anything like 10 that concerning safety matters generally? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Who would that have been in the early 13 1970s? 14 A. It would have been Tommy Chadwick. 15 Q. Tommy Chadwick. All right. 16 A. Or his designee. 17 Q. All right. Do you have a specific 18 recollection of any of the subject areas that 19 Mr. Chadwick or whoever he appointed would -- would 20 provide this kind of information or seminars or 21 training? 22 A. Well, they would just schedule us in 23 different seminars. And it might be National Safety 24 Council; it might be other organizations. 25 Q. Okay. But insofar as your personal DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 34 1 the office? 2 A. Yes . 3 MR. HEWITT: Objection; 4 speculative. 5 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You can answer. 6 A. Yes, we did. 7 Q. All right. Do you remember, for example, 8 a publication called the National Safety News? And if 9 you don't, that's fine. 10 A. No, I don't recall the title. 11 Q. Was it your understanding from working 12 with other people in the safety department that 13 Brown & Root had been a member of the National Safety 14 Council for many years? 15 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 16 speculative form of the question. It's 17 also overbroad and vague. You're asking 18 the witness to speculate. 19 A. I don't recall anyone ever saying how long 20 we had been. 21 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Certainly you will 22 agree with me that Brown & Root was a member of the 23 National Safety Council well before 1995. 24 MR. HEWITT: Objection; 25 speculative, overbroad. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 35 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. And if 3 Brown & Root were to state under oath that it first 4 became a member of the National Safety Council in 5 1995, you would agree with me that that would be flat 6 out untrue? 7 MR. HEWITT : I object to the 8 of the question. It's misleading. 9 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You can answer. 10 A. As far as I know, we are a member. 11 Q. And have been at least since 1971? 12 A. That's my understanding, yes. 13 Q. Did you ever attend any of the National 14 Safety Council -- what are they called -- annual 15 meetings in Chicago? 16 A. Yes, I did. 17 Q. On how many occasions, approximately, have 18 you done that? 19 A. Maybe three. 20 Q. Did you do that in the early 1970s? 21 A. Yes, that's correct. 22 Q. Was that something that you looked forward 23 to? Itwas kind of a change of pace, something fun to 24 do? 25 A. Yes, sir. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 36 1 Q.. And did Mr. Nystr om or Mr. Chadwick 2 attend those, as well? And I apologize. I'm not 3 asking if they went specifics lly with you, but did 4 they generally -- were they a ttending those, as well? 5 A. I -- I don't reca 11 either one of those 6 gentlemen attending. 7 Q. Okay. Do you rec all anybody else at 8 Brown & Root who attended tha t you can recall, in the 9 early 1970s? 10 A Yes. 11 Q Who would that be 12 A Frank Thompson. 13 Q Who was Mr. Thomp son? 14 A At the time, he w as a safety coordinator. 15 Q Okay. 16 A They -- and that' s a similar title to what 17 I have I mean, similar resp onsibilities to what I do 18 now. 19 Q. Al 1 right. Is he still with Brown & Root? 20 A. Ye s, that's corre ct. 21 Q. Wh ere -- is he em ployed here at the 22 Downtown -- in -- what is the name of the street, 23 again? I 'm so rry. 24 A. Cl inton Drive, 25 Q. Cl inton Drive? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 37 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. He's over there? And when did 3 Mr. Thompson start with the company? 4 A. In the Sixties sometime. I'm not sure. 5 Q. Before you did? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. All right. And. how old a gentleman is he, 8 if you could venture a guess? 9 A. I would say mid to late 50s. 10 Q. Okay. Was he involved with the safety or 11 health department in 1971 when you arrived? 12 A. Yes, sir. 13 Q. Did you have any dealings with him on 14 the -- the issue of the hazards of asbestos or the 15 dangers of asbestos in the early 1970s? 16 A. No, sir. 17 Q. What did you understand his duties and 18 responsibilities to be when you arrived in 1971? 19 A. He was the safety coordinator for the 20 highway and paving department and Southwestern Pipe. 21 Q. What was Southwestern Pipe? 22 A. It was a pipe mill that Brown & Root 23 owned. 24 Q. That Brown & Root owned? 25 A. Uh-huh. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 38 1 Q. Where was that located? 2 A. Directly behind 4100 Clinton. 3 Q. And I'm sorry. It was called "Southwest 4 Pipe"? 5 A. Southwestern. 6 Q. Oh, I apologize. 7 When -- was that facility closed at some 8 point in time? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. When -- when was that, approximately, 11 Eighties? 12 A. No, I'm thinking before then. Late 13 Seventies, probably. 14 Q. Did you ever spend any time in that 15 facility, you, yourself? 16 A. Only after it closed. 17 Q. Do you recall if there were any steam 18 piping systems or boilers in that facility? 19 A. . No, I do not. 20 Q. Have you ever done any work at the -- what 21 was Southland Paper plant out in Lufkin? 22 A. Yes, I have. 23 Q. Okay. When were you most recently at that 24 facility? 25 A. I believe I was there in 1996, Spring of DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 40 1 A. Wallace 2 Q. And was 3 the safety team for 4 A. He was t 5 supervisor at Armco. 6 Q. Is he st 7 A. No, sir. 8 Q. Do you k 9 A. Yes, I d 10 Q. What was 11 A. Ruptured 12 Q. Was that 13 accident or 14 A. No, sir, 15 Q. Was it r 16 A. No, sir, 17 Q. Well, yo 18 don't really think i 19 won't ask you what i 20 What did 21 and responsibilities 22 you replaced Mr. Wal 23 '72? 24 A. The same 25 supervisor would havi DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 41 1 the work that's going on for safety and health A 2 concerns. 3 Q. Okay. And did -- did you spend your two 4 weeks there walking around or going from location to 5 location within the facility to observe the 6 Brown & Root work practices? 7 A. Yes, I did. 8 Q. Do you have any specific recollections as 9 you sit here today of the nature of the work that was 10 on -- ongoing at any of those specific sites? 11 A. Yes, I do recall some of the work. 12 Q. Tell me what you recall. 13 A. I recall them pouring some concrete. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. I recall them erecting some steel, an'd I 16 recall them erecting a -- either a smoke stack or a 17 tower of some sort. 18 Q. All right. Do you believe, as you sit 19 here today, there was probably other work going on 20 that you just can't recall? 21 MR. HEWITT: Objection; 22 speculation. 23 A. No. 24 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) As you sit here today, 25 you are certain that that is the only work you DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 42 1 observed? 2 A. Yes . 3 Q. Okay. How do you know that? 4 A. Well, because I remember what I was doing. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. And that was -7 Q. All right. And approximately how many 8 Brown & Root employees were there at the facility at 9 that time that you were responsible for as -- on the 10 relief safety job? 11 A. I would have to guess at that, and I would 12 say between 150 and 200. 13 Q. Okay. All of the work that you observed 14 in that two-week time frame was new construction as 15 opposed to repair or maintenance work? 16 A. That's correct, yes. 17 Q. Do you have any recollection of there 18 being any work involving asbestos or any involvement 19 with asbestos at that time? 20 A. No, sir, there was not. 21 Q. When did you next visit the Armco 22 facility? 23 A. No response. 24 Q. Let me -- let me ask you this question. 25 first: How long a period of time did you continue to DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 43 1 be classified as an administrative assistant with 2 these safety duties? 3 A. Probably up until early 1972. 4 Q. Okay. So, by the spring of '72 when you 5 had this Armco visit, you would have been 6 reclassified? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. And what would your position have been 9 then? 10 A. I'm not sure of the title. It may have 11 been assistant safety supervisor. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. It was a training period. 14 Q. You were called assistant safety 15 supervisor, but you were still undergoing training? 16 A. That's correct. \ 17 Q. And for how long a period were you 18 undergoing training on safety matters as an assistant 19 safety supervisor? 20 A. Until September of 1972. 21 Q. Okay. So, for about nine months or so? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. And in that nine months, did youreceive 24 continuous training in all areas of workplace safety? 25 A. Yes, sir. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 44 1 Q. Did that training include training about 2 hazardous substances, occupational hazards such as 3 asbestos? 4 A. Yes, it did. 5 Q. And did it include methods forreducing 6 the hazards of exposure to hazardous substances, 7 including asbestos? 8 A. Yes, it did. 9 Q. Did you receivetrainingconcerning the 10 nature of Brown & Root's responsibility -- or strike 11 that. 12 Did you receive training concerning the 13 nature of Brown & Root's corporate policy with respect 14 to hazardous substances or hazardous conditions that 15 resulted from Brown & Root work that could impact 16 other workers in the vicinity? 17 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 18 overbroad, speculative form of the 19 question. 20 A. I -- I don't remember a policy addressing 21 that. 22 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Do you have a 23 general recollection of how Brown & Root addressed 24 that situation? 25 A. We had safety and health procedures that DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 45 1 addressed that. 2 Q. Okay. Brown & Root has written safety and 3 health procedures that address the possibility that a 4 hazardous condition could extend to areas where 5 other -- other workers are located but not 6 Brown & Root employees? 7 MR. HEWITT: Objection; overbroad, 8 speculative. It's not tied to the 9 specific circumstances relating to this 10 lawsuit. 11 A. That -- that's part of the general safety 12 and health rules, yes. 13 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) And were those general 14 and -- general safety and health rules, were you 15 learning about those back in your training period in 16 1972? 17 A. Yes, I was. 18 Q. And what did the general safety and health 19 rules indicate was the procedure if Brown & Root 20 operations were to create or involve a hazardous or 21 potentially hazardous exposure that could extend to 22 other workers, non Brown & Root workers? 23 MR. HEWITT: Objection; speculative 24 and overbroad. 25 A. What -- I'm sorry. I didn't hear a DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 46 1 question in that. It sounded like a statement. Maybe 2 I missed a word. 3 MR. WATERS: Yeah, go ahead and 4 read that back to him. 5 (The requested portion of the 6 record was read by the 7 reporter.) 8 A. Well, our -- our safety and health 9 procedures are that we protect all of the people that 10 may be exposed to do the hazards, not just 11 Brown & Root employees. 12 Q. Okay. So, Brown & Root as early as 1972 13 recognized it's own responsibility to protect other 14 workers from potential hazards? 15 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 16 overbroad form of the question. 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) And from your standpoint 19 as a safety professional, you would agree that that's 20 an appropriate way for a corporation to -- to look at 21 health and safety, not just for its own employees but 22 for its other folks? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And is it your recollection that -- that 25 that principle and that responsibility was stated in DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 47 1 the written general health and safety rules as early 2 as 1972? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Were there specific procedures written 5 into those rules for how to -- how to communicate to 6 other workers or how to -- or what steps to take to 7 try to protect other workers when you had a common job 8 site with a lot of people going in different 9 directions? 10 MR. HEWITT: Objection; overbroad 11 and speculative. 12 A. Yes, there were. 13 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) And what -- if you can 14 recall generally, what -- how Brown & Root wanted its 15 employees to react to that situation and what they 16 would do or what the approach was? 17 A. Barricades, signs, employee watches, hole 18 coverage in the instance of exposure to holes. 19 Q. Okay. So, that there were a variety of 20 steps that the Brown & Root folks would take to make 21 certain that the hazardous condition, whatever it was, 22 would not be a danger or a potential hazard to people 23 who did not work for Brown & Root? 24 A. That's correct. 25 Q. Do you recall that any of those general DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 48 1 health and safety rules had specific application to 2 asbestos? 3 A. There were specific rules in the asbestos 4 procedures that called for barricades. 5 Q. Okay. And am I correct that Brown & Root 6 generally a dopted as its own rules, its own 7 procedures, its own policy, what we stated in the OSHA 8 regulations ? 9 A. As far as I know, yes. 10 Q. And Brown & Root's safety policies and 11 procedures -- well, Brown & Root would essentially 12 adopt whate ver the regulations stated concerning 13 hazards and how to deal with those hazards? 14 A. For the most part, yes. 15 Q. Can you think of any specific regulations 16 or regulato ry requirements, either State or Federal, 17 that Brown & Root did not adopt? 18 MR. HEWITT: I'll object to the 19 misleading form of the question. 20 A. No. 21 MR. HEWITT: It's a 22 mischaracterization of his testimony.' Go 23 ahead. 24 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Was your answer "no"? 25 A. That's correct. No. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 50 Q. The only one. Okay. A. Oh, yes. Q. And approximately how many Brown & Root employees were at that facility? 5 A. I'm going to have to guess at 200. 6 Q. Understanding that's an approximation. 7 A. Right. 8 Q. And what type of work were they doing when 9 got there in late '72? 10 A. They -- there was an explosion there which 11 destroyed the facility, and we went in to tear it out 12 and then rebuild it. 13 Q. Is that a refining operation of some sort? 14 A. They made the lemon freshen scent that 15 goes in borax and that sort of thing. 16 Q. Had the explosion destroyed the entire 17 facility? 18 A. For the most part, yes. 19 Q. Well, had -- had there been fatalities? 20 Had there been a serious -21 A. If I'm not mistaken, there were seven 22 fatalities. 23 Q. And, so, Brown & Root basically went in 24 and cleaned up the mess and rebuilt the place? 25 A. That's correct, yes. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 51 1 Q. Okay. Was -- did some of that work 2 involve removal, in whatever form, of insulation 3 materials that had been in place before the explosion? 4 A. Yes, it did. 5 Q. Okay. And did that include asbestos 6 insulation materials? 7 A. Wo, it did not. 8 Q. Okay. And how is it that you know that? 9 A. It was a brand-new facility, and all of 10 the materials in there were nonasbestos. 11 Q. When had the facilitybeen built? 12 A. It was -- they had justcompleted it. 13 It -- it blew up on it's initial run, initial 14 startup. 15 Q. Okay. Had Brown & Root built the facility 16 in the first place? 17 A. That's correct, yes. 18 Q. And was it sometime in 1972 that the 19 explosion took place? 20 A. September of 1972. 21 Q. Okay. So, you finished your training; and 22 this was -- they needed somebody there, and off you 23 went? Okay. 24 A. That's correct. 25 Q. Do you recall any of the installation DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 52 1 material s that were used on that job, their names? 2 A. No, I do not. 3 Q. How is it that you have an understanding 4 that the y were -- that no asbestos was used? 5 A. That's what the plant safety supervisor 6 told me what when I initially arrived on site. 7 Q. And that was a gentleman who was not a 8 Brown & Root employee? 9 A. That's correct. 10 Q. Do you recall his name? 11 A. No, I sure don't. 12 Q. Now, did you understand at that time that 13 if the s ite had been insulated with asbestos 14 material s, that the process of -- of removing or 15 cleaning up from the explosion was going to be much 16 lengthie r and more expensive? 17 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 18 speculative form of the guestion. Assumes 19 facts not in evidence. 20 A. It would also be slower because of the way 21 he would have to do it, yes. 22 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. And -- and because 23 it would be slower, it would be more expensive and all 24 of those types of things? 25 A. That's partially true. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 53 1 Q. All right. Did -- did you-all ever make 2 any effort to actually sample the insulation materials 3 that remained in place to confirm whether or not they 4 contained asbestos? 5 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 6 speculative form of the question. 7 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) If you can recall. 8 A. To my knowledge, no, it was not done. To 9 my knowledge, it was not tested, no. 10 Q. Okay. Is it your understanding that 11 nonasbestos thermal insulation materials were 12 available before 1972? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Okay. Is it your understandingthat they 15 were available in the 1960s? 16 A. I don't know about that. 17 Q. Did you make any effort to -- to check 18 with the Brown & Root folks that were involved with 19 the initial construction to confirm one way or the 20 other whether the materials were asbestos or 21 nonasbestos? 22 A. The project manager told me that they had 23 put nonasbestos insulated material on the piping. 24 Q. Okay. The project manager -25 A. Brown & Root project manager, correct. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 54 1 Q. -- for Brown & Root? Okay. 2 Did the project manager tell you that the 3 whole plant was asbestos-free, or did he just say that 4 the pipe covering was nonasbestos? 5 A. I specifically asked him about any 6 asbestos insulating material, and he said there was 7 none because it was specified in che contract not to 8 put asbestos-related material in it. 9 Q. And that plant would have -- do you know 10 approximately how long it took to build that plant? 11 A. I'm going to guess nine months maybe. 12 Q. So, probably the majority of that plant 13 was put together during 1972? 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. Okay. You'll agreewith methat you can't 16 tell if you just look at some pipe covering in place 17 whether or not it's asbestos? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And if you have pipecovering in place, 20 especially if it was installed before 1972, the proper 21 procedure is to do some kind of core sampling and 22 determine whether or not it contains asbestos? 23 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 24 overbroad form of that question. It's not 25 reasonably restricted to relevant time DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 55 1 periods or geographic locations or 2 circumstances relevant to this lawsuit. 3 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You can answer. 4 A. You can tell by taking a small portion of 5 it and crumbling it in your hand whether or not it has 6 asbestos in it -- 7 Q. Could you -- 8 A. -- tosome extent. 9 Q. To some extent? Okay. Have you actually 10 done that yourself? 11 A. Yes 12 Q. Have you ever personally observed the rip 13 out or tear out of asbestos thermal insulation? 14 A. By Brown & Root personnel? 15 Q. Well, let's start with by anybody. 16 A. Yes,'I have. 17 Q. Okay. And did you observe that that 18 process creates -- or can create a significant amount 19 of -- of dust? 20 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 21 overbroad form of the guestion. It's 22 speculative as phrased, not limited to 23 circumstances surrounding the facts 24 presented in this case. 25 A. The times that I have observed them DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 56 1 removing insulation have either been in a negative 2 pressure environment or they have been removing it 3 wet -- 4 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. 5 A. -- to where there was not a lot of dust 6 created. 7 Q. All right. Fair enough. So, your 8 observation of that process, there were measures 9 taken, such as what you've just described, that 10 reduced the amount of dust significantly? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. All right. And as you -- as you've 13 testified, when you remove or tear out that material 14 with the wetting method or with negative pressure, 15 then it produces some dust, but not a lot? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. All right. You've not had an opportunity 18 to observe the tear out or rip out of asbestos thermal 19 insulation without those protective mechanisms in 20 place? 2 1 A. No, I have not. 22 Q. Okay. You would agree with me that if 23 there was rip-out or tear-out work after 1971 without 24 those protective mechanisms in place, that that would 25 be a violation of the regulations? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 57 1 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 2 overbroad form of the question. It's also 3 ngt restricted to any sort of geographic 4 location and is speculative. 5 A. I -- I'm not sure that that would be a 6 violation, no. That's not my understanding that it 7 would be a violation. 8 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. 9 A. It would depend on the amount of dust put 10 in the air, the type of removal process that you went 11 through -- 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. Whether or not the substance was 14 encapsulated 15 Q. If there was a removal of asbestos 16 insulation, I think, at a minimum, you would agree 17 with me that the regulations would require air 18 monitoring to be done to determine the levels in the 19 air? 20 A. That's correct. 21 Q. Okay. 22 MR. HEWITT: You're talking about 23 the 1970s now, correct? 24 MR. WATERS: Right. 25 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Have you ever observed DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 58 1 Brown & Root employees involved with the removal of 2 asbestos? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And when was that for the first time? 5 A. 1973, Champion Paper -- I mean Southland 6 Paper. 7 Q. The one in Channelview? 8 A. Sheldon, correct. 9 Q. What was the nature of thatproject? 10 A. That -- we were putting in a No. 7 paper 11 machine. 12 Q. And what was the type of insulation that 13 was being removed? 14 A. It was the transite siding. 15 Q. Okay. Is that what you already told us 16 about earlier? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. Okay. And I think you already told us -19 there were precautions taken? 20 A. That's correct, yes. 21 Q. Was air monitoring done? 22 A. No, it was not. 23 Q. So, in that instance, even though you 24 didn't know the exact levels of fiber in the air 25 because you hadn't done air monitoring, you-all took DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 59 1 significant additional precautions to reduce or 2 eliminate the hazard? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And you'll agree with me that you don't 5 need to do air monitoring to know whether or not a 6 work process such as ripping out insulation can create 7 dust? 8 MR. HEWITT: I object to the 9 overbroad, vague form of the question. 10 A. Yes, but the amount of asbestos in the 11 dust is the main reason for the monitoring. 12 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Fair enough. Any other 13 instances where you have observed the removal or tear 14 out or rip out of asbestos material? 15 A. No, sir. No, sir. 16 Q. Knowing what you know -- I'm sorry. Do 17 you need a break or -18 A. No. I made noise in his microphone. 19 Q. Okay. Knowing what you know and what you 20 knew as of 1971 about asbestos and cancer and some of 21 the hazards of asbestos, if you were to observe a rip 22 out or tear out procedure that was creating visible 23 dust and there were no precautions being taken, is 24 that something that would concern you as a safety 25 professional? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 60 1 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 2 speculative form of the question. 3 A. Yes, it would. 4 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) And that's something that 5 would have concerned you as a safety professional as 6 early as 1972? 7 A. Yes, it would. 8 Q. If you observed that type of operation 9 with Brown & Root employees involved, what would you 10 have done? Would you have stopped the work? 11 MR. HEWITT: Objection; speculative 12 and assumes facts not in evidence. 13 A. I would have tried to find out what they 14 were tearing out and whether or not -- what 15 precautions they had already taken, what testing had 16 already been done. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. And if I didn't like the answer I got, 19 then, yes, I would shut it down. 20 Q. Are you familiar with the general 21 principle that in the absence of testing to confirm 22 whether or not insulation material is not asbestos, 23 that safety professionals are to -- to include that it 24 is, in fact, asbestos? 25 A. Yes. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 61 Q. And the purpose of that is to, again, avoid or eliminate or reduce potentially hazardous exposures to the workers? A. Yes. 5 Q. How long were you on the Rhodia Chemical 6 job? 7 A. Until January of 1973. 8 Q. Four or five months, something like that? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. Where did you go after that? 11 A. I went to Southland Paper at Sheldon. 12 Q. Now, the asbestos transite removal you 13 described, that was Brown & Root workers, right? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. Did you -- the Sheldon Southland Paper 16 facility, did it have a significant amount of steam 17 piping and insulated steam pipes? 18 A. There is a significant amount inside the 19 plant, yes. 20 Q. Okay. Did you have any observations 21 concerning the way Southland was dealing with asbestos 22 or the potential hazard from the insulation of their 23 plants? 24 A. In 1973, no. 25 Q. Did you at a later time come to understand DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 62 1 how they were addressing or if they were addressing 2 asbestos hazard in the plants? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. What did you -- what do you recall about 5 that? 6 A. They started marking, testing and marking 7 to tell which -- which insulation had asbestos and 8 which did not. 9 Q. And when did they start doing that? 10 A. I'm going to guess 1970s, late Seventies. 11 Q. Okay. How long were you at Southland? 12 A. I was there until May of 1974. 13 Q. So, about a year and a few months? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. Did you have occasion to go back later? 16 Is that why you're telling me about this marking? 17 A. Yes. Yes. 18 Q. Okay. Do you have an -- an understanding 19 or a recollection that the regulations required that 20 asbestos materials be marked or signs be placed on 21 them so that workers would understand the potential 22 hazard? 23 A. I know that that's a requirement; but I'm 24 not sure when it came into effect, and I'm not sure 25 when I became aware of it. I just know it -- it is a DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 63 1 requirement. 2 Q. Okay. You'll agree with me that the 3 purpose of that requirement is so that workers who 4 might not -- might not otherwise understand that 5 insulation materials could be hazardous would be able 6 to take proper precautions if they have to work around 7 it? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. And you'll agree with me that employees or 10 workers generally are not likely to seek or take 11 precautions around hazardous materials unless they 12 have been told or informed that, in fact, those 13 materials or hazardous? 14 MR. HEWITT: I object to the 15 overboard, speculative form of the 16 question. It assumes facts not in 17 evidence. It's highly speculative. 18 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You can answer. 19 A. The question was that employees -20 MR. WATERS: Let -- let me let her 21 read it back. Otherwise, I -- I won't get 22 it straight. Go ahead. 23 (The requested portion of the 24 record was read by the 25 reporter.) DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 66 that because we require our employees or ask our employees to ask if they're not sure. So, I can't see that a person would unknowingly be exposed to asbestos. 5 MR. WATERS& Okay. Let me again 6 object as nonresponsive. 7 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) I apologize. We're just 8 having a communication problem here. 9 The reason workers ask about potential -10 what's in the pipe covering, is because they know that 11 asbestos is hazardous and it may contain asbestos, 12 right? 13 MR. ERWIN: Objection; calls for 14 speculation. 15 A. I -- I agree, yes, sir. 16 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. And you'll agree 17 with me if they don't know asbestos is hazardous, then 18 they're not going to ask whether or not the pipe 19 covering contained asbestos because they're not going 20 to have any reason to be concerned about it? 21 MR. HEWITT: Objection; 22 speculative. 23 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) See what I'm -- 24 A. Well, yeah, I guess. I'm still not 25 comfortable with answering "yes" to that because, like DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 67 1 I say, we require a mask. And I -- I'm talking 2 specifically about Brown & Root employees. 3 Q. Okay. 4 MR. WATERS: And, again, let me 5 object to the nonresponsive portion. 6 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Put Brown & Root out of 7 your mind for a second. 8 A. Okay. 9 Q. You'll agree with methat if workers 10 are -- workers need to be educated about hazards; they 11 need to know about hazards so they can take their own 12 precautions ? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And if theydon't knowabout hazards and 15 haven't been hold about hazards, then they're probably 16 not going to take precautions because they don't know 17 about the hazard that they're facing? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Fair enough. Okay. After May of '74, 20 where did you go? 21 A. I went to the highway and paving group of 22 Brown & Root. 23 Q. For how long a period of time? 24 A. Until November of 1975. 25 Q. Any work -- anything having to do with DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 68 1 asbestos? 2 A. No, sir. 3 Q. Okay. What did you start doing in 4 November of '75? . 5 A. I went to work as the safety supervisor 6 out in the Pasadena field operations. 7 Q. Now, did that involve a number of sites? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Tell me some of them that you recall. 10 A. Ethyl, Exxon, Southland Paper, Stauffer 11 Chemical, Goodyear, Lubrizol, Shell, and -12 Q. Is that Shell -- sorry. Is that Shell 13 Deer Park? 14 A. Shell Deer Park. 15 Q. Okay, 16 A. Diamond Shamrock, also Shell out on 6, 17 whatever it's called. It's a research -- Shell 18 research facility. 19 Q. Okay. 20 A. Various docks in and aroundHouston. 21 Q. All right. There may be others, but have 22 you covered most of them? 23 A. Yeah. The grain elevators, we've been 24 working the grain elevators. 25 Q. All of these various facilities, did they DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 69 1 have Brown & Root maintenance crews working at them on 2 a regular basis? 3 MR. HEWITT: Object to the -4 A. It may have been -- 5 MR. HEWITT: -- overbroad form of 6 the question. 7 A. It may have been construction crews. It 8 depends on the projects. 9 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. 10 A. Some of them were maintenance and some of 11 them were capital improvements and some of them were 12 new construction. 13 Q. All right. Did you become familiar with 14 the fact that Brown & Root had for many years been 15 performing maintenance and construction work at the 16 Exxon Baytown facility? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And as faras the organizational 19 situation, were you -- you were the supervisor over -20 for safety matters over the ongoing operations at all 21 of these -- approximately 10 or 11 places? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Did you travel to all of the different 24 facilities at different times? 25 A. Yes. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 70 1 Q. Did any of the facil ities have safety 2 personnel on site? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Which ones did or di dn' t, to the best of 5 your recollection? 6 A. Exxon did.They had multiple personnel 7 out there. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. Ethyl did. At vario us times a Shell 10 operation would have. At variou s times Diamond 11 Shamrock would have. Southland at Sheldon would have. 12 Q. All right. Did you -- by this time, had 13 you become familiar with the -- the general 14 requirement that Brown & Root em ployees at these -- at 15 these sites were responsible to follow not only their 16 own safety regulations but those of the premises 17 owner? 18 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 19 overbroad form of th e question. 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Did you have any personal 22 conversations -- well, let me pu t it to you this 23 way: How long did you have this j ob? 24 A. Until November of 19 79 . 25 Q. Up until November of '19, other than the DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 71 1 two weeks you discussed earlier, had you -- did you 2 spend any time at Armco? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Was Armco one of the places where you were ' 5 safety supervisor? 6 A. It -- it would have been one of the jobs 7 out of the Pasadena field operations. 8 Q. All right. Okay. So, we need to add that 9 to the list you gave us earlier? 10 A. Right. 11 Q. Okay. Can you give me a sense of how many 12 times you would have visited the Armco safety facility 13 from '75 to '79 in that capacity? 14 A. I -- I don't think it was more thanthree 15 or four. 16 Q. Okay. And each time would have been for, 17 what, a day or two at most? 18 A. An hour or two at, most. 19 Q. As you sit here today, do you recall -- 20 can you rec all any particular operations at Armco that 21 you observe d in that time frame in those several hours 22 that you wo uld have been out there? 23 A. All of the operations I observed at Armco 24 were new co nstruction operations. 25 Q. All right. Were you aware at that time DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 72 1 that there was ongoing work that was in the nature of 2 repair work or maintenance work performed by 3 Brown & Root at the Armco facility? 4 MR. HEWITT: I object to the form 5 of the question. Assumes facts not in 6 evidence, and it's a misleading statement 7 of the evidence. 8 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You can answer. 9 A. I -- I knew that we did capital 10 improvement out there. 11 Q. Okay. What do you mean by "capital 12 improvement"? 13 A. Capital improvement is anytime that you 14 make a change to a facility. It may involve 15 demolition; it may not. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. There again, the demolition may be 18 performed by a contractor other than Brown & Root. 19 Q. All right. 20 MR. WATERS: Let me object to the 21 nonresponsive position. 22 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) But I think what you're 23 saying then is, when you use the word "capital 24 improvement," that means that some change or 25 modification work was being done to existing DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 73 1 structures, existing equipment, something of that 2 nature? 3 A. There's a poss ibility that it was done to 4 existing. It could just b e adding to 'an additional, 5 putting in a faster drive or something like that, 6 Q. In the time fr ame '75 to '79, do you 7 recall having any discussi ons or communications with 8 anyone with respect to asb estos or asbestos exposure 9 at the Armco facility? 10 A. No, I do not. 11 Q. Do you recall having any interaction with 12 anybody at Armco from '75 to '79 concerning safety 13 generally? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Who would that have been? 16 A. I believe Pete Johnson was out there at 17 one time. 18 Q. Now, was a -- he's a Brown & Root guy, 19 right? 20 A. He was a Brown & Root guy, yes. 21 Q. Anybody from Armco that -- 22 A. Oh, I -- I don't remember the guy's name.' 23 Yes, I do remember going to the safety office; but I 24 don't remember their names. 25 Q. Would you agree that to the extent DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 74 1 Brown & Root had been performing maintenance work 2 or what did you call it -- capital improvement work -- 3 A. Capital improvement. 4 Q. -- at some of these various facilities for 5 many, many years, that Brown & Root would have been 6 aware of their requirements for safety at the 7 workplace? 8 MR. HEWITT: I object to the 9 overbroad form of the question. It 10 assumes facts not in evidence and is 11 misleading with respect to the 12 circumstances surrounding the facts of 13 this lawsuit. 14 A. "Their" being the clients? Is that -- 15 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Right. 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. So, for example, if Brown & Root had been 18 doing a significant amount of maintenance or capital 19 improvement work or other work at the Exxon Baytown 20 facility since back in the Forties, you would agree 21 that Brown & Root wo uld be familiar with Exxon's rules 22 and requirements for safety and health at the Exxon 23 Baytown facility? 24 MR. HEWITT: I object to the 25 speculative form of that question. It DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C 1-800-780-2555 75 1 assumes facts not in evidence and is 2 misleading. I t's highly speculative for 3 this witness. 4 Q. (BY MR. WATERS ) You can answer. 5 A. Yes . 6 Q. Your answer is 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Any of these f acilities that we've just 9 discussed - - I guess we ca n put aside Armco for the 10 moment. Any of these faci lities, '75 to '79, do you 11 recall any discussions or any issues raised with 12 respect to asbestos or pos sible asbestos exposure? 13 A. No, I do not. 14 Q. Anything in th e time frame '75 to '79, do 15 you have any recollection of any special projects 16 concerning asbestos? 17 A. No, I do not. 18 Q. Do you have -- I take it, then, you don't 19 have any recollection, for example, of reviewing any 20 air sampling records conce rning asbestos in that time 21 frame? 22 A. No, I do not. 23 Q. Was there an i ndustrial hygienist on staff 24 for Brown & Root by Novemb er of '75? 25 A. I'm not sure o f when they came to work for DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 76 1 Brown & Root; but I would say, yes, there probably was 2 at that time, yes. 3 Q. Did you know Mr. Richardson? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And did you have any interaction with 6 Mr. Richardson in the November '75 to November '79 7 time frame? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. I take it from your earlier 10 discussions, that none of -- your earlier testimony, 11 that none of those communications or discussions with 12 Mr. Richardson in that time frame would have pertained 13 to asbestos, or at least none that you can recall? 14 A. None that I can recall, no. 15 Q. Fair enough. 16 A. Not specifically. 17 Q. Before November of '75, had you -- do you 18 recall any discussions with Mr. Richardson about the 19 hazards of asbestos? 20 A. No, I don't recall it. 21 Q. You don't recall everreceiving any degree 22 of -- of training from Mr. Richardson, either formal 23 or informal, about the hazards of asbestos back -- 2 4 going back to when you had your initial training in 2 5 '72? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 77 1 A. He was not around in '72; so, no. 2 Q. Okay. We're up to November of '79. What 3 happens next? 4 A. I was moved into the home office as 5 assistant safety manager under Wallace Campbell. 6 Q. That's back on Clinton Drive? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. And Mr. Campbell, was he at that time the 9 safety manager? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. Mr. Chadwick, what had happened to him? 12 A. Mr. Chadwicck had been replaced as 13 safety -- I guess he would have been safety director 14 for Brown & Root. 15 Q. I'm sorry. I got myself confused. Was -- 16 did you use the term safety manager and safety -- 17 A. That -- originally, safety manager was the 18 head guy. 19 Q. Oh, okay. 20 A. And then somewhere along the line, they 21 changed it. Safety coordinators are the ones that are 22 now safety managers. 23 Q. All right, sir. In any event, 24 Mr. Campbell would have been your direct superior -- 25 A. Yes, sir. That's -- DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 78 1 Q. -- starting November of '79? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. What were your duties and responsib ilities 4 as the assistant safety manager, starting in No vember 5 '7 9? 6 A. To support the safety manager and s upport 7 the job sites, be a liaison between the job sit es and 8 the home office. 9 Q. All right. Were you, in effect, th e 10 number two member of the safety department, beh ind 11 Mr. Campbell? 12 A. For the industrial civil division, yes . 13 Q. As opposed to what other divisions? 14 A. As opposed to -- Brown & Root's mad e up 15 of -- was made up at that time of like eight di fferent 16 divisions. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. And then it would have a corporate safety 19 department. 20 Q. Okay. So, Mr. -- Mr. Campbell was not -- 21 was he or was he not a member of the corporate safety 22 department, as well? 23 A. No. He was not a member, but he wa s -- he 24 did have dotted-line responsibility to corporat e 25 safety. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 79 1 Q. Okay. Did you ever have any discussions 2 with Mr. Campbell concerning asbestos or the hazards 3 of asbes tos? 4 A. Not that I recall. 5 Q. Okay. Did you continue to have 6 responsibility for involving some of Brown & -- 7 Brown & Root work sites both in the State of Texas and 8 nationwide? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And did you continue to travel to those 11 facilities? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. How long were you in the position of 14 assistant safety manager? 15 A. Until October of 1980. 16 Q. Okay. Then what happens? 17 A. Mr. Campbell died, and I moved up. 18 Q. And you became the safety manager? 19 A. For the industrial civil division, yes. 20 Q. And at that time you were how old? 21 A. 31 maybe. 22 Q. That's a pretty big job, isn't it? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Mr. Campbell was significantly older than 25 you? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 80 1 A. He was late 50s or early 60s. I'm not 2 sure . 3 Q. Okay. And your duties and 4 responsibilities covered literally dozens of work 5 sites around the country? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And all aspects of industrialsafety and 8 industrial hygiene and those areas? 9 A. I was primarily responsiblefor the 10 industrial safety with just -- the responsibility with 11 industrial hygiene had to do with notifying the 12 corporate industrial hygiene person. 13 Q. All right. And who would that have been 14 in this time frame? 15 A. It would have been Charles Richardson and 16 Steve Sellers. 17 Q. Okay. So, if you had issues come up at 18 any of the many job sites where you had 19 responsibilities that related to industrial hygiene or 20 industrial health, you would refer those matters to 21 Mr. Richardson or Mr. Sellers? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. Were youresponsible for workplace 24 training at the -- all thesevarious facilities? 25 A. Yes. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 81 1 Q. And did you -- 2 A. Safety training. 3 Q. Safety training. All right. And were you 4 then involved in distributing training materials or 5 literature to people on the job site so they could 6 educate the workers? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Do you have a recollection of any specific 9 training that pertained to the hazards of asbestos? 10 A. No. 11 Q. How long were you in that position? 12 A. That's -- I'm still in it. 13 Q. You're still in it. Right. Okay. Well, 14 it's kind of bad becoming boss so young. Where do you 15 go from there? 16 Has your -- has your position in any way 17 changed other than to probably get bigger and more 18 complex? 19 A. Basically, no. 20 Q. Okay. How many -- can you give us a sense 2 1 of approximately how many work sites and approximately 22 how many -- how many Brown & Root employees were under 2 3 your safety guidance or safety net, let's say, in 24 1980? 25 A. 19? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 82 1 Q. '80. 2 A. 3 guess . Probably 5,000. That's a -- that's a 4 MR. HEWITT: Don't guess or 5 speculate. 6 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) In your capacity as the 7 safety manager for the industrial civil division, have 8 you been since October of 1980 the seniormost 9 supervisory employee for Brown & Root involved with 10 safety management for the industrial civil division? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Who else? 13 A. The industrial civil division is no 14 longer. 15 Q. Okay. What is your specific title now, 16 then? Safety manager for what? 17 A. I'm primarily responsible for forest 18 products, minerals, heavy civil, and mining. 19 Q. Okay. October '80 -- let me ask you this: 20 Did you ever visit the Armco facility after November 21 of '79? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. When was that? 24 A. I'm not sure. It would have been in the 25 time frame after I moved up with -- DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 83 1 Q. After what? 2 A. After I moved up with Wally Campbell. 3 Q. Okay. All right. So, sometime after 4 October of '80? I'm sorry. Sometime after November 5 of '79? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. But before Mr. Campbell passed away? 8 A. It probably would have been after he 9 passed away. 10 Q. All right. 11 A. So, after October of '80. 12 Q. Is there just one instance that you 13 recall? 14 A. Well, I recall being out there, yes. 15 Q. Okay. Can you tell me any more than that? 16 Do you have any specific recollection of 17 what you were doing out there, what the nature of the 18 visit was? 19 A. It was just a job visit. I mean, it was 20 just -- 21 Q. i Okay. Any -22 A. No specific reason for being there. 23 Q. All right. 24 MR. HEWITT: Is this a good time 25 for a break? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 84 1 MR. WATERS: Sure. 2 MR. HEWITT: Let's take a short 3 break. 4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It is 3:43 p.m. 5 We're off record. . 6 (A recess was taken.) 7 THE VIDEOGRAPHER : It is 8 4:00 o'clock p.m. We'r e back on record, 9 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) In you r capacity as 10 safety manager from October '80 to the present, can 11 you tell me or do you recall any pa rticular instances 12 where there was a concern expressed about asbestos or 13 you needed to address an asbestos i ssue or anything of 14 that nature? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Okay. Tell me -- well, is that on a 17 number of occasions or one or two in particular or -- 18 A. Well, one stands out in my mind for sure. 19 Q. Let's take that one first. 20 A. And that was in May of this year. 21 Q. Okay. And what did that involve? 22 A. We had employees that were concerned about 23 insulation being removed, as to whether it contained 24 asbestos. 25 Q. Where was that? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 85 1 A. Luke, Maryland. 2 Q. I'm sorry? 3 A. Luke, L-u-k-e, Maryland. 4 Q. What kind of facility? 5 A. It's a paper mill. 6 Q. These were Brown & Root employees? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. And were they in the process of some 9 capital improvement work? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Okay. And they came across some older 12 insulation material? 13 A. No. Some -- another contractor was 14 removing insulation. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. And we were concerned with it because we 17 worked in the area. 18 Q. Okay. Now, Brown &Root has been involved 19 with the asbestos abatement itself, has it not, in the 20 past? 21 A. There is a group within Brown & Root that 22 does -- that has done asbestos abatement, yes. 23 Q. Okay. All right. This situation inLuke, 24 Maryland, did you personally get involved with that? 25 A. Yes. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 86 1 Q. Did you go to the facility? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Okay. And tell me a little bit moreabout 4 how that developed. 5 A. Well, the concern was that -- that the 6 insulation contained asbestos, is what the employees 7 thought. And we had it tested, and it did not. 8 Q. Okay. And do you have a recollection as 9 to -- or did anybody know when that insulation was 10 initially installed? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. Well, I don't know -- Idon't know 14 personally. 15 Q. Fair enough. In any event, the 16 appropriate -- you took what I'm sure you consider to 17 be the appropriate course of action, which was to test 18 the material and to determine whether or not it 19 presented any type of potential hazard? 20 A. The material hadalready been tested by 21 the facility itself. This contractor was removing 22 asbestos insulation as well as nonasbestos insulation. 23 And the employees just got concerned because they 24 thought that this was asbestos-containing insulation. 25 Q. Okay. And there was some removal of DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 87 1 asbestos insulation going on at the facility? 2 A. Yes. .3 Q. And then there was removal of other 4 materials where the concern was that it may have also 5 been asbestos? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And you sort of double-checked that 8 material and determined that it was not asbestos? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. But there was other material that was 11 removed that was asbestos? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Okay. Did any of theBrown & Root 14 employees claim or have any of the employees presented 15 a claim that they were exposed to asbestos in that 16 time frame? 17 A. A medical claim? 18 Q. Or a compensation claim, any type of 19 claim. 20 A. No. 21 Q. Okay. All right. What other instances do 22 you recall from '80 to '97 concerning asbestos in your 23 position as the safety manager? 24 A. Late -- late Eighties or earlyNineties, 25 we became concerned that some material that we were DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 88 1 working around may contain asbestos, so we shut down 2 the work and called in the client to test the 3 material. 4 Q. Where was that? 5 A. Champion Paper in Courtland, Alabama. 6 Q. And did it turn out that the material was. 7 in fact, asbestos? 8 A. Yes . 9 Q. Did that happen sort of in the same way as 10 Luke, Maryland; that is to say, you had employees who 11 were concerned that they might be getting exposed? 12 A. No . 13 Q. How did it come about? 14 A. When they removed the casing from the 15 insulation, it just did not look right to them. So, 16 they -- they stopped. 17 Q. And this is Brown & Root employees? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Okay. They were actually involved with 20 removing the material. Something about the appearance 21 of the material concerned them that it might be 22 asbestos? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. All right. And it was at that time that 25 you had the premise owner of Champion Paper go ahead DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 89 1 and test the material? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And, in fact, it was asbestos? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. All right. Do you recall, was there a 6 supervisor on the job who -- who noticed this 7 potential problem and brought it to your attention? 8 A. The safety supervisor is the one that 9 brought it to my attention. 10 Q. Okay. This safety supervisor for 11 Brown & Root who was on the job had a concern that 12 people might be getting exposed or had the potential 13 to get exposed to asbestos, so that's why he called 14 you? 15 A. The employees called him; and then he, in 16 turn, informed me of it. 17 Q. Okay. Is that normal procedure for 18 Brown & Root, if they -- if their employees get 19 involved with or interact with a material that they're 20 concerned may be asbestos, that you-all have the 21 premises owner test it? Is that sort of standard 22 operating procedure? 23 A. I would say that's general, yes. 24 Q. Okay. Does Brown & Root -- would it be 25 unusual for Brown & Root themselves to take a core DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 90 1 sample on somebody else's premises to determine what 2 the material consisted of? 3 A. No . 4 Q. Do you-all dothat, too? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Okay. Well, tellme under what 7 circumstances you do it one way as opposed to doing it 8 another way. 9 A. Well, if the client has already contracted 10 with someone to come out and test and -- which most of 11 them have now. They have gone out, tested, 12 identified, abated the asbestos, or, at the very 13 least, identified the asbestos-related material. In 14 case of future demolition, it would already be 15 identified. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. And it has to bemarked. 18 Q. Right. And you're familiar with the fact 19 from your professional background, that in -- in most 20 facilities, the asbestos material is marked in such a 21 way so that the workers and people who may have to 22 interact with it understand it's asbestos? 23 A. Normally, yes. 24 Q. Okay. On -- on that particular issue, if 25 we can go back to the 1970s up to the early 1980s, do DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 91 1 you recall whether or not Armco Steel had had in 2 place an ability or a contractor or some service to 3 determine whether certain materials might or might not 4 be asbestos? 5 A. I'm not aware if they did. 6 Q. Okay. You don't have any recall of ever 7 being told that -- that Armco had that type of service 8 in place? 9 A. No. 10 Q. In the 1970s and early 1980s, would 11 Brown & Root have been relying on Armco to advise it 12 of the presence of asbestos-containing materials and 13 the potential hazard that those materials may have -- 14 might create? 15 MR. HEWITT: Objection; 16 speculative. 17 A. I don't know. 18 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) As we discussed before. 19 in -- at least in the '70s, did Brown & Root -- was it 20 sort of the official policy to -- to assume that 21 insulation materials in place were probably asbestos 22 until and unless testing had indicated that they were 23 not? 24 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 25 speculative form of the question. It's DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 92 1 also repetitious. 2 . A. Overall, I'd have to say yes. 3 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Have you seen any 4 of the documentation that indicates that there was in 5 excess of 100,000 linear feet of asbestos pipe 6 covering at the Armco facility in the 1970s? 7 MR. HEWITT: Objection to the form 8 of the question. Assumes facts not in 9 evidence. It's misleading. 10 MR. GONZALEZ: I join in that 11 objection. 12 A. I don't recall the -- the amount of 13 asbestos. 14 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) When did Brown & Root's 15 work at Armco end? Was it when the plant closed? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. '83 or '84? 18 A. Now, they may have donesome work after 19 the plant closed. I'm not aware. My -- my 20 involvement with it, it probably ended in the late 21 Eighties, '83 or so. Maybe mid Eighties. 22 Q. Okay. All right. Other than the Luke, 23 Maryland, and Champion Paper facility in Courtland, 24 Alabama, what other specific experiences or 25 involvement have you had with the hazards of asbestos DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 93 1 in your position as the safety manager? 2 A. I -- I can't recall any. Those two just 3 stick out in my mind. 4 Q. Okay. Fair statement that in terms of the 5 amount of time you spend day to day working on safety 6 matters -- all kind of safety matters, I'm sure -- 7 that asbestos has not been a big part of your work 8 from October '80 to the present? 9 A. It's normally covered by our industrial 10 hygiene people. So, the answer to that for my part 11 would be "no." 12 MR. WATERS: Okay. Let me object 13 to that nonresponsive portion. 14 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Have you ever seen any 15 sampling results that indicate the amount of asbestos 16 dust in the air from the Armco facility at any time 17 from '71 to '83? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Okay. What sampling results have you 20 reviewed? 21 A. The sampling that Steve Sellers did at the 22 Armco facility in the bag house. 23 Q. All right. Do you recall -- did you 24 review that recently? 25 A. Yes. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 94 1 Q. As part of your preparation to testify? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Did you review any other documents besides 4 that particular document? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. What else did you look at? 7 A. He had two separate occasions where he did 8 some testing out there, if I'm not mistaken. And then 9 there were some other documentation pertaining to 10 Brown & Root's asbestos guidelines. 11 Q. Okay. And were these documents shown to 12 you in preparation for your deposition by Mr. Hewitt 13 or one of the other attorneys for Brown & Root? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Do you recall, from your review of those 16 documents, was the bag house sampling that was done, 17 was that in the later 1970s? 18 A. It was in 1980. 19 Q. It was in 1980? Okay. And the other 20 separate occasion that you recall seeing or reviewing 21 some -- 22 A. I believe it was 1980. Either '81 or '82. 23 Q. Okay. So, to the best of your knowledge, 24 there is no documentation that indicates air 25 monitoring o r air sampling for asbestos at the Armco DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 95 1 facility prior to '80 or '81? 2 MR. HEWITT: I object to the form 3 of the question. Assumes facts not in 4 evidence and is speculative. 5 A. I'm not aware of any, no. 6 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Mr. Sellers was -- 7 is an industrial hygienist? 8 A. I believe he was, yes. 9 Q. He was? Is he no longer employed with 10 Brown & Root? 11 A. Well, he's employed by Halliburton. 12 Q. Oh, okay. 13 A. But he's in the safety field there. 14 Q. Okay. Did you have any involvement 15 with -- or any -- yeah, any involvement with the 16 background for -- for those -- the sampling that 17 Mr. Sellers did in '80 or '81? . 18 A. No. 19 Q. Okay. Is it a fair statement that you're 20 not aware of any sampling being done with respect to 21 asbestos-containing pipe covering material at the 22 Armco facility? 23 A. I'm not aware of any, no. 24 Q. Would you agree with me that you're not in 25 a position to tell the jury in this case what DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 96 1 exposures may have taken place to asbestos or may not 2 have taken place to asbestos at Armco in the period 3 from 1960s, Seventies, and on into the Eighties? 4 MR. HEWITT: I object to the 5 speculative form of the question. 6 A. I would agree with that. 7 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Some quick items: 8 Would you agree with me, sir, that asbestos is a toxic 9 substance, based on your training and experience in 10 the field? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Would you agree with me -- you may already 13 have -- that you would consider asbestos fibers to be 14 a hazardous material? 15 A. Yes. 16 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 17 overbroad form of these last two 18 questions. 19 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Have youlearned 20 in your training and experience, sir, that asbestos 21 causes -- or asbestos exposure causes certain types of 22 lung diseases? 23 MR. HEWITT: Objection; 24 repetitious. 25 MR. ERWIN: Also, overbroad, vague, DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 97 1 and ambiguous. 2 A. I'm aware that there are some that say 3 that, yes. 4 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) All right. Let's talk 5 about some specifics. 6 Are you aware, for example, that asbestos 7 exposure can cause a type of lung scarring called 8 asbestosis? 9 MR. HEWITT: Again, I object to the 10 form of the guestion. It's calling for 11 the opinion of a medical expert, and it's 12 also imprecise under the circumstances in 13 which the alleged asbestos exposure can 14 cause that disease process. It's 15 imprecise and ambiguous. 16 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You can answer. 17 A. I'm aware that there's some that claim 18 that, yes. 19 Q. There's some that claim that? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Do you have any reason to believe that's 22 not the case? 23 A. Well, there are also others that don't -- 24 that claim that there's not. / 25 Q. Who are you aware of, sir -- is there DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 98 1 someone at Brown & Root that states that asbestos 2 exposure doesn't cause asbestosis? 3 A. No. 4 MR. HEWITT: Ob jection; misleading 5 and a mischaracterization of his 6 testimony. 7 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Are you aware of anyone 8 that you would consider or any author, any text book, 9 anyone who would consider that -- or state that 10 asbestos does not cause asbestosis? 11 A. No, sir. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. I can't give you a name, no. 14 Q. So, when you state -- stated earlier that 15 there are some who claim that asbestos causes 16 asbestosis, you personally would agree with that, 17 based on your experience and background and 18 professional training? 19 MR. HEWITT: I object to the form 20 of the question. It's repetitious. And, 21 again, it's an imprecise question in terms 22 of calling for an opinion of a medical 23 expert without any specifics as to the 24 circumstances surrounding whether asbestos 25 exposure could cause the disease process. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 100 1 foundation has been made. And 2 circumstances surrounding where alleged 3 asbestos exposure can cause that disease 4 process are not part of the question. So, 5 it's misleading and ambiguous. 6 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You can answer. 7 A. I'm not aware of the amount of exposure 8 that causes it. 9 Q. Okay. And have you become aware in your 10 professional training as a safety professional and as 11 a safety manager for Brown & Root that asbestos 12 exposure can cause lung cancer? 13 MR. ERWIN: Vague, ambiguous, 14 overbroad, not specific. 15 A. I'm -- I'm aware that there have been 16 claims for that, yes. 17 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) All right. Now, when you 18 say that you're aware there have been claims for that, 19 as you sit here, as the safety manager for 20 Brown & Root, do you dispute that asbestos exposure 21 can cause lung cancer? 22 A. No. 23 MR. HEWITT: I object to the form 24 of that last question. It's overbroad and 25 vague. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 101 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Is -- is your -- is whatever reservation you have about asbestos causing lung cancer have to do with whatever amount may be required, amount of exposure? 5 A. Amount and other factors. 6 Q. Okay. For example,what other -- 7 A. Smoking. 8 Q. Okay. Smoking. Certainly, you're aware 9 that smoking is a significant cause of lung cancer, 10 correct? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. And presumably -- well, I should 13 ask. As safety manager, are you involved or do you 14 have any involvement with efforts to have your 15 employees stop smoking cigarettes? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Okay. Are you awareof any other 18 materials out at Armco that were used such as the 19 thermal insulation, but any other materials besides 20 that, that exposure to which could cause cancer? 21 A. No. 22 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 23 speculative form of that last question. 24 Assumes facts not in evidence. 25 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Will you agree with me, DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 102 sir, that a corporation or company has a -- both a legal and a moral obligation to protect its workers from known hazardous substances? MR. HEWITT: I object to the form 5 of that question. It calls for a legal 6 conclusion on the part of the witness. No 7 predicate or foundation has been laid, and 8 it's overbroad. 9 MR. ERWIN: Also to the extent it 10 misstates the proper legal standard. 11 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You can answer. 12 A. I agree. 13 Q. Okay. Do you agree with me, sir, that a 14 corporation has both a legal and a moral obligation to 15 warn its workers that they may be exposed to 16 substances in the workplace that can cause cancer? 17 MR. HEWITT: I object to the form 18 of the question. Calls for a legal 19 conclusion. It's overbroad and misstates 20 the legal standard. 21 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) you can answer. 22 A. I agree. 23 Q. Do you agree with me, sir, that a 24 corporation or a company has a legal and moral 25 obligation to protect nonemployees working in the DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 103 1 vicinity who may be exposed to hazardous or 2 cancer-causing substances from that corporation's 3 operations? 4 MR. HEWITT: Same objections. It 5 calls for a legal conclusion and fails to 6 state the proper legal standard. And 7 it's'-- object to generally the improper 8 form of the question. It's in -- in 9 effect argumentative. 10 A. I agree. 11 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) And, lastly, doyou 12 agree, sir, that a corporation has both a legal and a 13 moral obligation to nonemployees working in the same 14 vicinity as -- as operations, if they may be exposed 15 to cancer-causing substances? 16 MR. HEWITT: Same objections. It's 17 also misleading. 18 A. I agree. 19 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) If-- and, again, I'm 20 asking you this question as a safety professional and 21 somebody who's had, goodness, 25 years, I guess, in 22 the field. 23 If a company knows that a particular 24 substance is hazardous or can -- or can cause cancer, 25 and also knows that there are specific regulations, DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 104 1 safety requirements for working around that material, 2 and fails to follow the regulations, would you agree 3 with me that that company is indicated to be -- or is 4 expressing a lack of concern for the safety of the 5 workers and people who may be exposed? 6 MR. ERWIN: Objection; vague, 7 ambiguous, and incomplete hypothetical to 8 the extent it's purporting to relate to 9 the facts in this case. 10 MR. HEWITT: It also assumes facts 11 not in evidence and does not relate to the 12 facts or circumstances in issue in this 13 lawsuit. 14 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You can answer. 15 A. I agree. 16 Q. And you as a safety professional would 17 presumably be critical of a company that failed to 18 follow regulations and, as a result, workers or even 19 nonemployees were exposed to cancer-causing 20 substances? 21 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 22 overbroad form of the question. 23 MR. ERWIN: It's vague and 24 ambiguous and calls for a legal conclusion 25 and misstates the legal standard. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 105 1 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You can answer. 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. In your opinion, sir, are products, 4 asbestos products, that in their normal use can let 5 off asbestos-containing dust, do you consider those 6 products to be potentially dangerous? 7 MR. HEWITT: I object to the form 8 of that question. It's ambiguous and 9 vague, speculative for this witness. 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) I want to talk to you 12 about a few documents from the Brown & Root corporate 13 files that were provided by the -- by the Brown & Root 14 lawyers -- 15 MR. WATERS: Let's go ahead and 16 change before I get into this. 17 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It is 4:24 p.m. 18 We're off record. 19 (A recess was taken.) 20 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It is 4:27 p.m. 21 We're back on record. 22 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Just very briefly, were 23 you -- did you have an opportunity to look at what's 24 been marked as Exhibit No. 1 or an earlier version of 25 Exhibit No. 1, a deposition notice for your DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 106 1 deposition? 2 A. No, I did not. 3 Q. Okay. So, you did not have an opportunity 4 to review a list of documents that you were supposed 5 to produce at the deposition? 6 A. Mike read those out yesterday. 7 Q. 8 phone ? Oh, he talked to you about it on the 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. No, in person. 12 Q. In person? All right. So, you met 13 Mr. Hewitt , the Brown & Root lawyer, yesterday? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. 16 met? For how long a period of time did you-all 17 A. An hour, two hours, hour and a half. 18 Q. Okay. What did you-all talk about? 19 MR. HEWITT: Well, I object to the 20 form of the question. 21 MR. WATERS: That's right. 22 MR. HEWITT: Instruct the witness 23 not to answer. 24 MR. WATERS: He's an employee. 25 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Do you still have any DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 107 1 educational materials, including books, class notes, 2 course outlines, or other materials related to 3 industrial health or safety in your office? 4 A. No, sir. 5 Q. Okay. How about seminar materials? 6 MR. HEWITT: Well, Brown & Root has 7 filed objections to the subpoena duces 8 tecum. Some -- 9 MR. WATERS: Yeah. I -- go ahead. 10 MR. HEWITT: Subject -- subject, 11 you know, to it we -- we have produced -- 12 previously produced some documents that 13 would have already been responsive to it, 14 anyway. 15 MR. WATERS: You mean back when I 16 took Heit, Drysdale, and Gaines' 17 depositions? 18 MR. HEWITT: No, I'm talking about 19 the -- 20 MR. WATERS: This -- 21 MR. HEWITT: -- the asbestos -- 22 MR. WATERS: Okay. 23 MR. HEWITT: -- package material 24 and the air sampling reports as well as 25 the Brown & Root contract documents DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 108 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 relative to work at the Armco Steel plant. With respect to specific items contained in that Request for Production -- and I don't mind you asking the witness to the extent he may have knowledge of certain things, but we have filed objections to those individual matters and certain matters that we'll just have to address to the Court. MR. WATERS: Well, my -- my biggest concern is -- and you may or may not know that -- but I -- this -- but I think you probably read Drysdale, Heit, and Gaines' previous depositions. And at that time, those depositions were taken at Clinton Drive; and they produced a large volume of material, none of which was made available for copying. But they produced it at the time of the deposition, and it was represented to me that it consisted of generally the industrial hygiene library and -- and general industrial hygiene materials for Brown & Root that pertained to asbestos. And I've specifically asked that DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 109 those be reproduced for the purpose of these depositions because they obviously have a direct application to what we're here for. And that -- what I'm gathering is you're not going to produce them. MR. HEWITT: Well, I didn't -- first of all, that's not -- I didn't appreciate that -- MR. WATERS: Take a look at -- MR. HEWITT: -- that was the contents of those exhibits. MR. WATERS: -- No. 14. MR. HEWITT: You know, I -- all I can say is if, you know, copies of those exist and you didn't -- you didn't request a copy of them? That sounds as if -- MR. WATERS: No. We settled the case, though. They were supposed to make me copies. We settled the case the next day. They did not make me copies. Now, it and may be that we should take the depositions later in the week at Brown & Root to be able to review those because they're fairly voluminous. But they're an important part of the DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 110 1 litigation. 2 MR. HEWITT: Well, I, as you know, 3 was not the Brown & Root lawyer in the 4 Hodge case. So, I don't know what 5 documents were produced at -- at those 6 depositions. 7 I'll just say on -- on the face of 8 it, that particular request doesn't fall 9 within, I feel, the gamma of -- of 10 Rule 167. 11 MR. WATERS: Why not? 12 MR. HEWITT: It fails to set out a 13 reasonable particular area of documents 14 for which production is sought. 15 MR. WATERS: Well, you know exactly 16 or your -- your people know exactly what 17 was produced at that deposition. I mean, 18 your people were there. 19 MR. HEWITT: Well, Andy, you and I 20 aren't going to resolve -- resolve this 21 now. And from the standpoint -- 22 MR. WATERS: Well, I want to get -- 23 I mean, if you're not going to produce 24 those for deposition by this week, I want 25 to get on the horn with the judge and get DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 111 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 an order, because that's ridiculous. That's stonewalling to the max. MR. HEWITT: Well, I'm not going to argue with you on the record on that. We -- we filed our objections. I -- MR. WATERS: Tell me -- MR. HEWITT: Again, I was not there at -- at the deposition. I don't know what documents were produced. If you're saying you want -- again, you know, I'll have to find out what documents were produced. I don't know what the extent that is. Are you saying the entire industrial hygiene library? MR. WATERS: Well, it's not -- I mean, it was probably two boxes of material. It was books, it was pamphlets, it was articles, it was a variety of educational and other materials that Brown & Root has maintained as its industrial hygiene library particularly maintaining to asbestos. So, let's take a break and call the judge. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It is 4:33 p.m. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 112 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 We're off record. (A recess was taken.) MR. WATERS: We have been discussing the fact that Brown & Root has not produced any materials whatsoever as requested in the subpoena duces tecum first provided more than a week ago- to Brown & Root concerning Item Nos. 1, 2, 4 -- I'm sorry. 1, 3, 4, 5, 14. And those documents are known to be in existence. They have been previously produced by Brown & Root. I believe -- as a matter of fact, I think it was as a result of a Court order. The documents are easily ascertainable by an interview with Mr. Drysdale or Mr. Gaines. They know where the documents are and what they are, and they have previously produced them. I understand in my discussions with Mr. Hewitt that he has not discussed that with any of the witnesses, and I would be happy to hear what efforts you've made to produce those documents. MR. HEWITT: Well, I'm not going to DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 113 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 argue with you on the record, Mr. Waters. MR. WATERS: You don't have to argue with me. You can just tell me what you -- MR. HEWITT: I -- I am going to tell you that we have filed proper objections to each of those individual item requests. They -- I might add that this amended deposition notice was served on us yesterday evening. MR. WATERS: There's been no change in the document request. It's precisely the same as it was a week ago. MR. HEWITT: Let me also add that Items 1, 3, 4, and 5 aren't even reasonably restricted to asbestos awareness or asbestos hazards. They're so overbroad, it's incredible and literally encompass thousands of documents. So, we stand by our objections to these requests. We have produced contract documents and documents relative to air sample and personnel sampling and monitoring out at Armco Steel plant as well as documents DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 114 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 contained within Brown & Root files relative to asbestos and safety at the workplace, which have been produced to you on numerous occasions. At this point, to try to reconstruct something that happened in a deposition over a year ago is a highly burdensome task and -- MR. WATERS: Have you read the depositions? MR. HEWITT: And we have just been -- this Request for Production is nothing but a form of harassment by the plaintiffs on Brown & Root -- MR. WATERS: Have you -- are you telling -- MR. HEWITT: -- which has been ongoing throughout this lawsuit. MR. WATERS: Have you read the depositions, Mr. Drysdale, Mr. Heit, and Mr. Gaines'? MR. HEWITT: Again, I'm not going to argue with you on -- on the record. MR. WATERS: Nobody is asking you to argue. I'm asking you to state your DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 115 position. MR. HEWITT: You and I are -- we -- I stated my position, and I have no further -- MR. WATERS: You're not going to answer that question? MR. HEWITT: What I'm going to do is, we're going to take this matter up with the Court. 1 MR. WATERS: We certainly are. 1 All right. Well, I'm going to 1 adjourn the deposition. It's not over. 1 We're going to have to come back once the 1 documents are -- have been produced. 1 I'm going to cancel the depositions 1 for later in the week unless I can get to 1 the Court before then, which seems 1 unlikely. 1 We'll take it all up with the Court 2 next Monday. I'll file a motion to compel 2 and for sanctions, and we will ask the 2: Court to give us the depositions with 2: proper production of the documentation 2. before we go forward with the depositions. 2! That's what's appropriate, and DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 116 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that's the way this should be handled. You had a week to respond to this issue. Nothing new, nothing different. These documents have been previously produced, and Brown & Root knows precisely what they are. And I told you exactly how you can find out where they are and what they are. And if you're not going to produce them, then there's no point in going forward with the depositions. They're significant documents, very relevant to the litigation. So... MR. HEWITT: Are you suggesting you don't want to go forward with the deposition of Mr. Crestani, either? MR. WATERS: I -- I can't. I mean, I'm not in a position to depose people when you don't produce documents that are relevant to the litigation. I mean, there's -- you tied my hands. - Not only that, I should state for the record that despite the fact that Mr. Heit, Mr. Drysdale, and Mr. Gaines were previously deposed in this asbestos DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 117 1 litigation, Brown & Root's taken the 2 position that we cannot use those previous 3 depositions. So, you're making us 4 redepose them; and you don't even want to 5 produce the documents that were produced 6 last time when they were deposed under 7 Court order. 8 I mean, what -- you don't give me 9 any option. So, I'm not going to be able 10 to complete this deposition. I'll ask all 11 the questions I can; but, obviously, I 12 cannot complete the deposition without 13 these significant materials that pertain 14 to industrial hygiene and safety, the 15 subject about which he's being questioned. 16 And we'll take it up next Monday. 17 Okay. We can go ahead and get back 18 on the video. 19 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It is 4:58 p.m. 20 We're back on record. 21 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Who was Mr. Harry Austin? 22 Do you recall that name? 23 A. I believe he was a vice president with 24 Brown & Root. 25 Q. Okay. Did he have some -- to the best of DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 118 1 your recollection, some responsibilities for health 2 and safety matters? 3 A. His -- in his position, he may have been, 4 over the personnel group, which, in turn, safety was 5 part of the personnel group. 6 Q. All right. Going back to the 1971 and 7 1972 time frame, did you understand that all of the 8 Brown & Root supervisors were supposed to become 9 familiar with the asbestos regulations? 10 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 11 overbroad form of the question. 12 A. I'm -- I don't recall. 13 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Do you recall a 14 gentleman named Stan Rauhut, R-a-u-h-u-t? 15 A. Rauhut, yes. 16 Q. And he was in the legal department, 17 correct? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Okay. Do you recall that he was -- he had 20 some involvement with interpretation of -- an 21 interpretation or application of the new asbestos 22 regulations? 23 A. His position, I think, dealt with all of 2 4 those regulations. 25 Q. Okay. Was he also involved with the -- DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 119 1 the -- with -- with Brown & Root's providing 2 commentary or comments' or feedback to the Fe deral 3 government about the regulations generally? 4 A. I -- I don't know about that. 5 Q. Did -- did he get involved with lobbying 6 efforts on' behalf of Brown & Root on regulat ory 7 matters? 8 A. I don't know. 9 Q. Do you recall that there were a series of 10 safety memos in the early 1970s that addressed the 11 OSHA regulations and the hazards of asbestos, any 12 recollection of that? 13 A. I don't recall specifically. 14 Q. Okay. Let me show you what's -- what is 15 identified as a Brown & Root office memo, OSHA safety 16 Memo No. 25 of November 7, 1972. And I guess we 17 should first -- let's see if you are copied on this 18 anywhere. Let's see. 19 A. No. 20 Q. Okay. 21 A. I don't believe there are any safety 22 personnelcopied on there. Those are all officers and 23 operations people. 24 Q. Okay. All right. And this is from 25 Mr. Chadwick, the manager of the safety department? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 12 1 exposures might be taking place? .A. Of a general nature, yes. Q. Okay. When you say that, what do you 4 mean? 5 A. Well, I know that they were -- I can't 6 recall a specific time frame, but I know there were 7 other documents coming out about asbestos and exposure 8 to asbestos. I know that there was monitoring going 9 on at select places. 10 Q. All right. Can you tell from looking at 11 this if any of the persons copied on this document are 12 at Armco Steel -- or were at Armco Steel, I should 13 say? 14 A. Safety coordinator, supervisors, and 15 trainees. It should have gone to the safety 16 supervisor at Armco Steel. 17 Q. All right. So, this document telling all 18 these folks at -- at Brown & Root that we need to know 19 where potential exposures are taking place would have 20 probably gone to a Brown & Root safety coordinator or 21 supervisor in -- at the Armco facility? 22 A. 23 Q. 24 of 1972? Yes. And who would that have been in November 25 MR. HEWITT: Objection; DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 122 1 speculative. 2 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) If you know. 3 A. Wallace Campbell. 4 Q. For Armco? 5 A. For Brown & Root. 6 Q. I'm sorry. I may have confused you with 7 my question. 8 Who would have been the safety coordinator 9 or supervisor responsible for Armco at that time? 10 A. For Armco the client? 11 Q. For the -- I'm sorry. For the Armco site. 12 A. For the Brown & Root people at Armco? 13 Q. Yes, sir. 14 A. That wouldhave been Wallace Campbell. 15 Q. Okay. I apologize. 16 And Mr. Chadwick goes on to state, "We 17 need to take dust samples at these work areas to be 18 sure we are within the permissible limits of five 19 asbestos fibers per cubic centimeter of air." 20 Okay. Did I read that correctly? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. Now, this was in November of 1972. 23 I think you've told us previously that you have not 24 seen any sampling results or -- and are not aware of 25 any sampling results prior to 1980 or '81 at the Armco DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 123 1 facility in the Houston area. 2 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 3 overbroad form of that question. I t' s 4 also misleading and a mischaracteri zation 5 of his testimony. 6 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Is that correct, s ir? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. Okay. So, to the extent Mr. Chadwi ck is 9 saying, "We need to do this dust sampling," in 1972 , 10 you don't have any knowledge that would indicat e that 11 that was done in any way, shape, or form at the Armco 12 facility until some eight or nine years later? 13 MR. HEWITT: I object to the form 14 of the question. It's a misstateme nt of 15 his testimony, and it's misleading. 16 A. I was not assigned to the Armco fac ility. 17 So, I would not be aware of any sampling that d id or 18 not take place there. 19 Q. Okay. 20 MR. WATERS: Objection to 21 nonresponsive. 22 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) My question simply put 23 is: You don't have any knowledge about and you 're not 24 aware of any sampling done between -- in the ei ght- or 25 nine-year period after this memo was produced? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 124 1 MR. HEWITT: Objection. 2 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) And you've' not seen any 3 sampling results that would indicate that, have you? 4 MR. HEWITT: Objection; misleading. 5 It's a mischaracterization of his 6 testimony, and it's repetitious. 7 A. No. 8 MR. ERWIN: I'm sorry guys. Did we 9 call our friend back? I don't know why 10 that dawned on me. 11 MR. WATERS: Let's go off the 12 record for a minute. 13 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It is 5:05 p.m. 14 We're off the record. 15 (A recess was taken.) 16 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It is 5:13 p.m. 17 We are back on record. 18 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Sir, with respect to the 19 eight- or nine-year period from the date of this 20 memorandum, until 1980 or 1981, would you agree with 21 me that you are not aware of any asbestos sampling 22 taking place at the Armco facility nor have you seen 23 any records that would indicate that any such sampling 24 took place in that time frame? 25 MR. HEWITT: Objection; DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 125 1 speculative, assumes facts not in 2 evidence, and is misleading. 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Who was responsible 5 within the safety and health department for actual 6 implementation of the regulations? 7 MR. HEWITT: Objection; overbroad. 8 A. It would start with whoever the head of 9 the safety department was, the manager of the safety 10 department.. Then it would go down through the 11 individual safety coordinator, down to the safety 12 supervisors, and out to the projects with the project 13 managers and the safety supervisors in the field. 14 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Let's talk, for 15 example, about the requirement for physical 16 examinations. 17 With respect to any particular job site, 18 what employee would be responsible to arrange for 19 those? 20 A. I believe it would be the personnel 21 director, personnel supervisor. 22 Q. For that particular facility, for example? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. Okay. Who would be responsible for 25 ventilation controls and adding ventilation controls DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 126 1 to the work site? 2 A. Whatever supervisor is in charge of that 3 particular work. 4 Q. Okay. So, that would be something that 5 would be outside of the safety department? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. What about the provision of 8 approved respirators and special clothing for work 9 around asbestos? 10 A. That would be supplied by the safety 11 department upon request by the supervisor of the 12 employees doing the work. 13 Q. Okay. So, if the supervisors specifically 14 requested those materials, the safety department would 15 then provide them? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. What about provision of a change room? 18 How would that take place? Would -- would that, 19 again, be requested by the work supervisors and then 20 provided by the safety department? 21 A. The change room would probably be provided 22 by the project manager. I mean, that -- that's a 23 large facility. It would not be the -- supplied by 24 the safety department, no. 25 Q. All right. With -- with respect to -- who DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 127 1 would be responsible at the work site for 2 recordkeeping, warning signs, and employee education 3 or notification? 4 A. Here again, it would be the supervisor of 5 the employees doing the work.with the assistance of 6 the safety department. 7 Q. Okay. All right. Have you ever seen any 8 documentation that would indicate that any of these 9 various measures were ever put into place for 10 Brown & Root employees at the Armco facility? 11 MR. HEWITT: I object to the form 12 of the question. It's overbroad. It's 13 speculative and assumes facts not in 14 evidence. 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) What -- what of these 17 various requirements have you seen documentation 18 about? 19 A. The respiratory protection, the protective 20 clothing, the barricades. And I can't recall what -21 else. 22 Q. Okay. Would those have all been with 23 respect to the bag house work that you described 24 earlier? 25 A. Yes. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 128 1 Q. Okay. Which was in approximately 1980? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. With respect to the decade of the 1970s, 4 am I correct that you have not reviewed any 5 documentation and do not have any information, . 6 personal information, personal knowledge, concerning 7 whether these various other measures were taken at 8 the Armco facility for Brown & Root employees in the 9 1970s? 10 MR. HEWITT: I object to the form 11 of the question. It's misleading, assumes 12 facts not in evidence, and essentially 13 assumes that the circumstances surrounding 14 this particular memo were somehow 15 applicable at a given -- particular time 16 at the Armco Steel plant. Therefore, the 17 question as phrased is misleading. 18 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You can answer. 19 A. I agree. 20 Q. Will you agree with me that from a safety 21 standpoint, that the most important aspect of all 22 these regulations is that initial monitoring 23 requirement? 24 MR. HEWITT: Objection; overbroad. 25 A. I would have to say "no." DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 129 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. What do you think is more important than that? A. Identification of material as being asbestos-containing. 5 Q. All right. And do you have any personal 6 knowledge that there were any efforts made in the 7 1970s to actually identify which of the thermal 8 insulation materials at the Armco facility that the 9 Brown & Root folks might work around contained 10 asbestos? 11 MR. HEWITT: Objection; overbroad 12 and not reasonably restricted to relevant 13 time periods or specific circumstances 14 relative to this lawsuit or specific 15 events out at the Armco plant. 16 A. I'm not aware of any, no. 17 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Let me show you again in 18 the Chadwick memo, November 7, 1972, where it states, 19 "Recordkeeping warning signs and employee notification 20 are required. This is especially important where 21 spraying, demolition, or removal of asbestos is 22 involved. " 23 , First of all, did I read that correctly? 24 A. Yes, you did. 25 Q. Okay. And would you agree with that DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 130 1 statement from Mr. Chadwick in 1972 that these 2 particular requirements, recordkeeping, warning signs, 3 and employee notification or education, were 4 especially important if there was any work going on 5 that involved the spraying, demolition, or removal of 6 asbestos? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. It goes on to state, "We recommend all 9 employees assigned to work with asbestos be given a 10 pulmonary function test and X rays as required or 11 produce evidence of passing this exam in the previous 12 year." 13 As you sit here today, sir, do you have 14 any knowledge or recollection as to whether or not 15 that was ever done in the 1970s for Brown & Root 16 employees at Armco? 17 MR. HEWITT: Objection; speculative 18 as to this witness. 19 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You can -- 20 A. I'm -- I'm not aware. 21 Q. It states also, "Isolation of other 22 employees from the work area is recommended." 23 Is that a recommendation that you as a 24 professional safety person would agree with? 25 A. Yes. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 131 Q. Okay. And -- and the whole idea there is that persons who aren't working hands-on with the material may very well have a significant exposure just from being in the area? MR. HEWITT: Object to the form of the guestion. Assumes facts not in evidence. It's misleading and speculative 8 as relates to issues -- circumstances 9 surrounding issues in this lawsuit. 10 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You can answer. 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Who is Mr. B. W. Bryant, if you know? 13 A. B. W. Bryant was -- I'm not sure of his 14 exact ti tie, but he was the one that was directly over 15 personne 1 services. He was the -- the -- I'm assuming 16 vice -- I don't know. Vice president over personnel 17 services 18 Q- All right. Let's take a look at a 19 memorandum from Mr. Chadwick to Mr. Bryant dated 20 November 16, 1972, just a short time, a week or two 21 after the one we just looked at. 22 MR. HEWITT: Excuse me, Counsel. 23 Do you want, for the record, to mark these 24 as exhibits so it will be clearer when we 25 read it back? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 132 1 MR. WATERS: Well, I think they're 2 going to be clear from the date. My 3 problem is I don't have an extra set, and 4 I really don't want to give up my 5 possession of what I've got. 6 MR. HEWITT: Well, I could run a 7 copy. 8 MR. WATERS: You really think 9 that's necessary? I mean, I -- I'm trying 10 to give you the date referral so you can 11 look at it. You've got it -- you've got 12 it right there in front of you? 13 MR. HEWITT: Yeah, but I just 14 thought it would be -- it would be clearer 15 for the record in the future. But let's 16 just see how it goes. 17 MR. WATERS: Okay. 18 MR. HEWITT: If -- I I might 19 want to revisit that with you. 20 MR. WATERS: All right. 21 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Again, this memorandum 22 from Mr. Bryant to Mr. Chadwick -- now, Mr. Bryant is 23 in management, correct? 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. All right. And Mr. Chadwick, we've DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 134 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. All right. It goes on to list a number of 3 engineering controls, work practices, and things of 4 that nature, some of which we've already discussed, 5 correct? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. And, again, it looks like -- two, four -- 8 about 15 different methods that are supposed to be 9 used to protect workers from asbestos? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Okay. And then moving on to the second 12 page, he goes and he talks again about this 13 requirement that this monitoring or sampling be done. 14 Do you see that? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Okay. And itindicates that when the 17 monitoring is being done, when they're taking these 18 samples, they're supposed to put up caution signs. Do 19 you see that? 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. Okay. And then let'slook here at the -- 22 how Mr. Chadwick finishes his letter. 23 "This will give you some idea of the 24 complexities of this problem faced by Brown & Root 25 until a substitute for asbestos is on the market in DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 135 1 large enough amounts for use in new construction." 2 Did I read that correctly? 3 A. Yes, sir. 4 Q. Okay. Now, you already new by this date 5 that substitutes were available for thermal insulation 6 because you knew and Brown & Root knew that an entire 7 facility had been insulated wich nonasbestos 8 materials. Is -- 9 MR. HEWITT: Object to overbroad. 10 MR. WATERS: Let me finish my 11 question. 12 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Isn't that what you told 13 us before? 14 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 15 overbroad form of the question. It 16 assumes facts not in evidence. 17 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You can answer. 18 A. Yes . 19 Q. Okay. And what you knew from your 20 experience at -- what was the name of the place, 21 again? 22 Rhodia. 23 Q. -- Rhodia, was that as early as the 24 beginning of 1972, nonasbestos thermal insulation was 25 available and that's what Brown & Root had used on DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 136 1 that job, correct? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. Okay. So, when Mr. Chadwick talks about 4 some future date when there will be a substitute 5 available, in actual fact, although he probably didn't 6 know it, Brown & Root knew that there was already an 7 available substitute, didn't they? 8 MR. HEWITT: Object to the form of 9 that question. Assumes facts not in 10 evidence and is speculative as to what 11 Mr. Chadwick knew or didn't know. It's 12 also misleading. It's a 13 mischaracterization of his testimony and 14 the document itself. 15 A. The way I read this, it says "is on the 16 market in large enough amounts." So, he's aware that 17 there is a substitute -- 18 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. 19 A. -- but it my not be in large enough 20 amounts. 21 Q. Okay. Well, it certainly waslarge enough 22 amounts for that other job you did,wasn't it,because 23 the place was asbestos-free? You built the whole 24 thing without using asbestos; am I right? 25 A. Correct. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 137 1 Q. Okay. So, if there were large enough 2 amounts available to build an entire manufacturing 3 facility in 1972, apparently Mr. Chadwick wasn't aware 4 of that at that time? 5 MR. HEWITT: Object; speculative, 6 assumes facts not in evidence, and is 7 misleading. We're comparing apples and 8 oranges relative to the facility that 9 Mr. Hodges is testifying to and anything 10 that Mr. Chadwick may be referring to in 11 his memo. 12 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You can answ 13 A. I would have to disagree with 14 statement. 15 Q. With whichstatement? 16 A. That it was available for one but not the 17 other. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. There -- there are differences in the 20 types, amounts, things to be insulated, and the 21 different size plants. So, because it was available 22 for one, may not necessarily be that it was available 23 in quantities nor be required or requested by the 24 client to be put in. 25 Q. All right. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 139 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And, so , for example , employee monitoring 3 medical monitoring records, and air sampling records 4 had to be retained for at least 20 years? 5 A. Yes . 6 Q. Do you recall that? All right. Were you 7 aware of that fact as early as 1971 or 1972? 8 A. I don't recall the specific time frames 9 now, but I do know that there were specific time 10 frames in place that changed from the initial time 11 frames to lengthier time frames. 12 Q. Okay. 13 MR. HEWITT: I'm going to object to 14 that earlier question regarding the time 15 frame of 20 years as assuming facts not in 16 evidence. 17 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Let me show you, again, a 18 memorandum from Mr. Chadwick to the project managers 19 and safety supervisors in January of 1973, 20 January 9th. 21 Now, would you have been a safety 22 supervisor at that time? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Okay. So, this is probably something that 25 you saw? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 140 A. Yes. Q. Okay. And the subject is recordkeeping for asbestos. And it states, "All records required by OSHA to be maintained shall be forwarded to the Houston safety office." Is that consistent with your recollection that from the various Brown & Root job sites around 8 the country, if there was any records such as air 9 monitoring samples required by OSHA, those would have 10 been forwarded to the Houston office? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. And the Houston office would have 13 maintained those records, I presume? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. All right. And then it -- in fact, it 16 specifically states under Item 2, "All records for 17 monitoring of dust samples and the laboratory report 18 shall be sent to the Houston safety office. A copy of 19 the report shall be retained at the job site." 20 Who in particular was responsible at the 21 Houston office for receiving and reviewing and 22 maintaining the dust sampling and monitoring records 23 in the early 1970s? 24 MR. HEWITT: Objection; overbroad 25 and speculative. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C . 1-800-780-2555 141 1 A. I -- I don't recall who was responsible at 2 that -- during that period you're looking at right 3 there. 4 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Well, did you have 5 any responsibility for reviewing air monitoring 6 records -- well, I guess I should ask this way: Do 7 you have any recollection when you were at the Houston 8 headquarters of even receiving any air monitoring 9 records in the 1970s? 10 A. No, sir. 11 Q. Okay. So, to the best of your 12 recollection, there may not even have been any 13 received -14 MR. HEWITT: Object -- 15 Q. -- in the early 1970s? 16 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 17 overbroad form of the question. It's 18 calling for the witness to speculate and 19 assumes facts not in evidence. 20 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You can answer. 21 A. I am not aware. 22 Q. Okay. But we can agree that Brown & Root 23 had a legal and regulatory obligation to start doing 24 sampling at its work sites as of, what, 1972? Was it 25 December of '72? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 142 MR. HEWITT: I object to the form of the question. Calls for a legal conclusion on the part of witness. It's overbroad and ambiguous. A. Yes. 6 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Did you understand that 7 fiberglass insulation was one of the types of 8 substitute for the asbestos insulation? Did you know 9 that one way or the other? 10 A. Well, I knew that fiberglass insulation 11 did not contain asbestos. So, yes, I guess the answer 12 is yes. 13 Q. Okay. Fair enough. On the subject of 14 when and where Brown & Root met its obligation to 15 provide air monitoring or air sampling, I want to show 16 you a memorandum dated November 15, 1977. And it's 17 from Mr. Richardson, who you've identified as being 18 the corporate industrial hygienist; is that right? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Okay. And who is Mr. Fred Samon 21 (phonetic)? 22 A. Fred Samon was the -- probably at that 23 time, he was the -- he had taken Tommy Chadwick's 24 place. 25 Q. Oh, okay. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 144 1 records make no reference whatsoever to individual 2 employees. 3 Is there any other reason you can think of 4 why Brown & Root was maintaining these -- this 5 information in confidential files? 6 MR. HEWITT: I object to the form 7 of the question on the ground it's 8 speculative and assumes facts not in 9 evidence. 10 A. Once again, all records related to 11 employee medical records and monitoring records are 12 confidential records. 13 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. But I want to show 14 you -- 15 A. It does not have to be personal. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. All records. 18 Q. All right. Even if the records make no 19 reference whatsoever to any individuals? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. Okay. So, that -- based on thatpolicy, 22 any and all monitoring records of any kind would be 23 confidential, stamped "confidential"? 24 A. That's -- yes. 25 Q. Okay. All right. Well, let's take a look DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 145 1 at these confidential records where Mr. Richardson 2 lists all of the times when monitoring was done at 3 Brown & Root operations. And -- let's see. It goes 4 in inverse order. 5 It looks like the first monitoring that 6 Brown & Root ever did was right there at the Clinton 7 Drive shop garage. Do you see that? 8 MR. HEWITT: I object to the form 9 of that question on the grounds it assumes 10 facts not in evidence. It's a 11 mischaracterization of what this document 12 purports to state and be, especially the 13 use of the world "all." 14 MR. WATERS: Well, that's not my 15 word. That's Mr. Richardson's word. If 16 you think "all" means something different 17 from -18 MR. HEWITT: Yes. 19 MR. WATERS: -- from 20 Mr. Richardson, that's fine. 21 MR. HEWITT: I object to the form 22 of the question on the grounds it's 23 misleading. 24 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. You can answer. 25 Do you recall the question? I'll be happy to rephrase DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 146 1 it. 2 A. That says the shop on Clinton Drive, yes. 3 Q. Okay. And it indicates on this list of \ 4 all of the sampling that Brown & Root had done up 5 until the fall of 1977, that the first such monitoring 6 they did was in July of '76 involving break and clutch 7 work right there in Houston, correct? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. And then it shows a number -- eight 10 additional instances in 1976 and 1977 where 11 Brown & Root completed the remainder of all of their 12 sampling up until October, 1977; is that correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. All right. And assuming that 15 Mr. Richardson is correct in his statement that this 16 is all of the monitoring that was done up until fall 17 of 'll, that would mean, would it not, sir, that no 18 monitoring was done by Brown & Root of asbestos 19 operations until the summer of 1976, four or five 20 years after OSHA came into effect? 21 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 22 misleading form of the question. Assumes 23 facts not in evidence. 24 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Is that correct, sir? 25 A. Based on this document, yes. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 147 1 Q. Okay. Do you have any information or any 2 personal knowledge that in any way is different from 3 this? I don't believe you do, based on what you said 4 before; but I need to know that, if you do. 5 A. No, sir. 6 Q. All right. Let's look, for example, at 7 the sampling that was done on October 6, 1977, where 8 there was some work done with asbestos blankets. Do 9 you see that? 10 A. Yes, sir. 11 Q. And it indicated that the exposures were 12 above the OSHA limits.. Do you see that? 13 A. Yes, sir. 14 Q. It went on to state that the blankets 15 should be -- to be substituted with fiberglass? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. Okay. What kind offacility dothey have 18 in La Grange, Texas? 19 A. Power plant. 20 Q. Oh. Is thataffiliated with anypremises 21 owner in particular, or is that a Brown & Root 22 facility? 23 A. No,. It's a -- -- it's a -- I don't know if 24 it' s Texas Utilities or who it is. It 's not -- no. 25 It's -- it 's for a die nt. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 148 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. But I'm not familiar with who the client 3 is. 4 Q. Fair enough. Let's take a look at another 5 document from Mr. Richardson addressed to Fred Samon 6 again, the safety manager. This is April 1, 1976, 7 related to the asbestos recordkeeping requirements. 8 If you'll just take a look at it with me. 9 Does it indicate that they changed the 10 retention period, the time frame when you had to keep 11 these records, from 3 years to 20 years? 12 A. Yes, sir. 13 Q. Okay. Do you recall thatchange taking 14 place in terms of your own involvement with -- with 15 environmental issues? 16 A. Basically, yes. 17 Q. Okay. To the extent there was air 18 monitoring done at any time after -- well, strike 19 that. 20 Let's take a look at another memorandum 21 from Carl Richardson. 22 MR. WATERS: By the way, I guess I 23 should state for the record, in case you 24 didn't realize this, these documents were 25 provided to us. Some of them I think I've DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 149 1 seen before, but they were provided to us 2 after I put together the Brown & Root 3 exhibit list. But we're obviously going 4 to use some of these documents as 5 exhibits. I haven't assigned them 6 numbers, but I wanted you to be aware of 7 that in case you, for some reason, 8 weren' t. 9 MR. HEWITT: Okay. Well, these 10 documents have been provided to you on 11 numerous occasions for long periods of 12 time. 13 MR. WATERS: On numero us occasions 7 14 MR. HEWITT: Yeah. Se veral 15 occasions that I can think of , anyway, 16 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Here' s a 17 memorandum dated November 26, 1979 -- and , by the way 18 where would you have been at that point i n time? 19 A. November of '79, I would have been in 20 the -- had just moved into the home offic e. 21 Q. All right. 22 A. Working under Wally Campbell. 23 Q. Under Wally Campbell. 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. Now, would Mr. Campbell's sup eriors have DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 150 1 been Mr. Samon who received this memorandum? 2 A. Wally would have reported directly to the 3 vice president in charge of the division, which 4 probably would have been Emil Zerr at the time, and 5 had dotted-line responsibility back to Fred Samon. 6 Q. All right. The gentlemen that are copied 7 on this memorandum of November 26, '79, Burt Hale and 8 Dale English, who were -- who were those gentlemen? 9 A. Burt Hale was the safety coordinator in 10 charge of the power division, which this memo is 11 obviously -- 12 Q. I see. 13 A. And Dale English eventually took Fred 14 Samon's place. What his job was at that time, I'm not 15 sure. Fred may have been working for him at that 16 time. I'm not sure. 17 Q. All right. Fair enough. Take a second, 18 if you will, and just look at this document so you can 19 familiarize yourself with it. 20 I take it, was that a document -- that was 21 not one of the documents that you were shown by the 22 Brown & Root lawyers? 23 A. No, I believe this was one. 24 Q. That was one of them? 25 A. Yes, I believe so. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 151 1 Q. Okay. All right. Well, then you -2 MR. HEWITT: Let's go off the 3 record for -- for a minute. 4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It is 5:43. 5 We're off record. 6 (A recess was taken.) 7 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It is 5:55 p.m. 8 We're back on record. 9 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Mr. Hodges, do you recall 10 a few moments ago I was asking you some questions 11 about the Richardson to Samon memorandum of. 12 November 15, 1977? 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q. The document that attaches a log of all 15 Brown & Root asbestos monitoring -- monitoring up to 16 October 1977? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. All right. We've just taken a break. Did 19 you have an opportunity to speak with Brown & Root's 20 counsel about this document during that break? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. All right. And do you have something you 23 wish to add to or change your previous answer 24 concerning this particular document? 25 A. Well, it could potentially, yes. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 152 1 Q. All right. Tell me what potentially, 2 after talking to the Brown & Root lawyer, you think 3 may be of significance. 4 MR. HEWITT: Well, I object to the 5 form of that question. It's 6 argumentative. 7 A. Well, I sought out the Brown & Root lawyer 8 because of my concerns about the document. 9 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) All right, sir. 10 A. It appears to me that this, rather than 11 being a sampling of exposure to asbestos during normal 12 work operations or during work operations for asbestos 13 removal, this, in actuality, was to try to get a 14 baseline of standard operations that are done across 15 the board, across the company, to find out what the 16 normal level of exposure was to the employees. 17 We did this in sound level studies, took 18 certain operations -- if you look down here at the 19 operations that they were doing, these are operations 20 that could be done on just about any job site. And it 2 1 was to find out about what type of exposure was there 22 in doing those operations. 2 3 Q. Okay. 24 A. So, what I'm saying is this does not 25 appear to me to be a document related to all of the DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 154 1 testimony, that you have not seen any other sampling 2 results from this time frame that indicate that 3 sampling of tear out or rip out work was done at some 4 other time or in some other way? 5 MR. HEWITT: Objection; it's 6 misleading and assumes, facts not in 7 evidence. 8 MR. WATERS: Why don't you just 9 stop the tape for a second. 10 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It's 6:31. 11 We're off record. 12 (A recess was taken.) 13 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It is 6:32. 14 We're back on record. 15 (The requested portion of the r 16 record was read by the 17 reporter.) 18 A. I'm not aware of any, no. 19 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. And to the extent 20 that this document may represent an effort to do a 21 baseline study of various operations, as you may -22 you may have indicated earlier, it's apparent that 23 that was not done, at least with respect to tear out 24 or rip out of insulation materials? 25 A. I think this was operations other than DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 155 1 that. 2 MR. WATERS: Let me object as 3 nonresponsive. 4 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Is -- is the answer to my 5 question "yes"? 6 A. Repeat the question again. 7 MR. WATERS: Read the question 8 back. 9 (The requested portion of the 10 record was read by the 11 reporter.) 12 A. The document does not indicate that, no. 13 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) All right, sir. Let me 14 show you another memorandum from Carl Richardson to 15 Greg Garvin (phonetic). Who is Mr. Garvin? 16 A. I don't know. 17 Q. Okay. The date's September 28, 1977. 18 Subject, asbestos exposure. Okay. 19 Have you seen this memorandum before? Do 20 you recall? 21 A. It -- it may have been in some of that 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. -- information I reviewed earlier. 24 Q. Now, we talked earlier about the initial 25 monitoring requirement; that is to say, the monitoring DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 156 1 that wa s required of people that were working with or 2 around asbestos to determine if there were any levels 3 of cone ern. Do you remember that? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. Now, in this 1977 memorandum, if 6 you'll look at the second paragraph, Mr. Richardson 7 discuss es the initial monitoring; and he says, 8 "Initia 1 monitoring and medical surveillance have been 9 emphasi zed on OSHA inspectors on other Brown & Root 10 job sit 11 Okay. Did I -- first, did I read that 12 correctly? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Do you have arecollection, sir, that the 15 OSHA inspectors had put some emphasis, in their 16 discussions with Brown & Root on this initial 17 monitoring requirement that we've been discussing? 18 A. No, Ido not. 19 Q. Okay. Have you ever --or did you in the 20 1970s, discuss with OSHA inspectors Brown & Root's -21 whether or not Brown & Root was following the 22 regulations? 23 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 24 overbroad form of the question. 25 A. I do not recall any conversations with DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 157 1 OSHA. inspectors to that effect. 2 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Did you ever have any 3 conversations with OSHA inspectors about asbestos at 4 all that you can recall? 5 A. Not that I can recall. 6 Q. Fair enough. 7 And here in the -- in the fourth 8 paragraph, Mr. Richardson, the industrial hygienist 9 for Brown & Root, indicates, "It is important to have 10 initial monitoring if possible." 11 Do you see that part of the last sentence? 12 A. Yes, I do. 13 Q. Okay. And that's something that you agree 14 with as well, don't you, sir, the importance of the 15 initial monitoring? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. Let me show you a document that's not 18 dated. It was produced by Brown & Root. It appears 19 to be a -- some sort of an information statement about 20 asbestos. I ask if you've seen that before? 21 A. Yes, I have. 22 Q. Okay. And is that, in fact, some sort of 23 a document that was put together by the Brown & Root 24 safety department or industrial hygiene folks? 25 MR. HEWITT: Obviously, if you DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C 1-800-780-2555 158 1 know. 2 A. I believe it was, yes. 3 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Is this something 4 that you would have reviewed in the Seventies, or you 5 would have seen it back then? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. Now, Brown * Root is a construction 8 company in the construction industry, correct, sir? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. All right. Here it indicates turning -- 11 about asbes tos, how is -- is it used, "It has about 12 3,000 diffe rent uses with about two-third s used in the 13 construction industry as various building products, 14 insulation, friction materials, and textiles." 15 Did I read that correctly? 16 A. Yes, you did. 17 Q. Okay. Were you aware, other than this 18 document, that two-thirds of the uses for asbestos 19 materials were in the construction industry in which 20 Brown & Root was involved? 21 A. No, I was not. 22 Q. All right. 23 MR. HEWITT: I'm going to object to 24 the form of that last question to the 2 5 extent it assumes facts not in evidence. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 159 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) All right. Okay. Where they talk about here what diseases may be caused by asbestos, they indicate, "Among some groups of workers who were heavily exposed to asbestos, as much as 20 to 25 percent of all deaths are due to lung cancer." First of all, did I read that correctly? A. Yes, you did. 8 Q. Would yo'u consider, sir, 25 percent of 9 deaths resulting from lung cancer to be a significant 10 risk, up to a guarter -- I mean -- yeah, one quarter 11 of the people with that type of exposure dying of lung 12 cancer? Do you consider that to be significant? 13 MR. HEWITT: I object to the form 14 of that question. It calls for an opinion 15 on -- on which no predicate or foundation 16 has been laid. It's misleading, also. 17 A. I think 25 percent is significant, yes. 18 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) All right. And then it 19. goes on to state that, "Asbestos workers are at 20 increased risk of mesothelioma, an otherwise uncommon 21 type of cancer not associated with smoking." All 22 right? And we've talked about that, haven't we? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And then it states that, "Above average 25 rates of cancer of the digestive system, esophagus, DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 160 1 stomach, colon, rectum, have been found in groups of 2 asbestos workers." 3 Separate and aside from this document -- 4 we haven't discussed this before -- but were you 5 aware, sir, in the context of your general 6 background and training that people exposed to 7 asbestos had above average rates of these other types 8 of cancer? 9 A. No, I was not aware of that. 10 Q. There's a section of this Brown & Root 11 document that -- "What is the roll of cigarette 12 smoking?" It indicates that people exposed to 13 asbestos that smoke have risks -- wait a minute -14 have a risk of lung cancer eight times that of smokers 15 in the general population. Do you see that? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. And what that tells you is, is that 18 somebody who is a smoker and exposed to asbestos is at 19 a -- at a dramatically increased risk over a smoker 20 who is not exposed, right? 21 MR. HEWITT: I object to the form 22 of the question. It calls for -- no -- no 23 predicate or foundation has been laid. It 24 calls for a medical opinion. 25 MR. ERWIN: Incomplete DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 161 1 hypothetical. 2 A. I agree. 3 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) All right. Did 4 Brown & Root have a policy in the 1970s about smoking 5 generally? Do you recall if workers were permitted to 6 smoke on the job? 7 A. Some jobs -8 MR. HEWITT: Objection; overbroad. 9 Go ahead. 10 A. Some jobs, yes; and some jobs, no. 11 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Did Brown & Root 12 have a specific policy to try to discourage employees 13 from smoking who were exposed to asbestos, or do you 14 recall? 15 A. I do not recall. 16 Q. All right. All right. It goes on to talk 17 about nonsmokers. All right? Do you see here in the 18 second paragraph? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Okay. "Nonsmoker asbestos workers have 21 more lung cancer than nonsmoking in general. They do 22 not experience the extremely high risk of cancer of 23 asbestos workers who smoke. However, they still are 24 at an increased risk of other asbestos-induced 25 diseases, including asbestosis, mesothelioma, and DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 162 1 gastrointestinal cancers." 2 Is that part of your background and 3 training, at least in-house with Brown & Root, that 4 folks who are not smokers still have this increased 5 risk of these other asbestos diseases, asbestosis, 6 mesothelioma, and the GI cancers? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And here they talk about some workers 9 exposed only a month or two in this have developed 10 asbestos-related diseases many years later. 11 Do you see that there in the last 12 paragraph? 13 A. Yes. [ 14 Q. Okay. All right. Here's another one. 15 "Some investigators have reported evidence of impaired 16 lung function in workers with less than ten years of 17 exposure to asbestos." 18 Do you recall learning that less than ten 19 years of exposure to asbestos could result in lung 20 damage? 21 A. Yes . 22 Q. Any idea whose handwritten notes are 23 attached to this? Do you recognize the handwriting? 24 A. None whatsoever. 25 Q. All right. Okay. Looking at the -- DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 163 1 again, the handwritten notes that are attached, 2 where it talks about lung cancer, "close" -- it says, 3 if you will read with me, "close association between 4 asbestos exposure and increased occurrence of lung 5 cancer." 6 Does that sound similar to what they 7 taught you about the connection between asbestos 8 exposure and lung cancer back in the early Seventies? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And then it lists for some other cancers, 11 esophagus, colon, stomach, and rectum? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Do you recall receiving training at 14 Brown & Root concerning those asbestos cancers? 15 A. I don't recall those, no. 16 Q. All right. Fair enough. 17 MR. WATERS: Why don't I pass the 18 witness; and if I've got something else. 19 I'll come back to it. But that way, if 20 Jim has got something, we can get -- get 21 you out of here. 22 MR. GONZALEZ: I've got a few 23 questions if nobody wants to go right now, 24 MR. HEWITT: Go ahead, 25 Mr. Gonzalez. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 164 1 *** 2 EXAMINATION 3 ** 4 BY MR. GONZALEZ: 5 Q. Sir, I'm Juan Gonzalez; and I'm a -- I'm a 6 defense lawyer for a couple of defendants in the 7 litigation in which you're testifying, sir. Let me 8 ask you a couple of questions. 9 You're not in a position, are you, sir, to 10 identify any particular asbestos-containing product 11 with any particular job site, are you? 12 A. No, sir. 13 Q. Pardon? 14 A. No, sir. 15 Q. Are you in a position, sir, to identify 16 any particular asbestos-containing brand name with any 17 particular job site? 18 A. No, I am not. 19 Q. How about any particular manufacturer of 20 asbestos-containing products with any particular job 21 site? 22 A. No, I am not. 23 Q. Are you in a position, sir, to identify 24 any particular asbestos-containing product, brand 25 name, or manufacturer in connection with use by any DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 165 1 particular plaintiff? 2 A. No, I'm not. 3 Q. Are you in a position to identify any 4 particular asbestos-containing product, brand name, or 5 manufacturer with any particular time frame? 6 A. No, I am not. 7 Q. How about with any particular employer, 8 contractor, or subcontractor? 9 A. No, sir. 10 Q. Are you in a position to identify any 11 product manufactured by W. R. Grace & Company of 12 Connecticut that may have contained asbestos with any 13 job, time frame, employer, subcontractor, or 14 plaintiff? 15 MR. WATERS: Objection; calls for 16 speculation. He's already told you he 17 can't identify any products. 18 A. No, sir. 19 Q. (BY MR. GONZALEZ) You can answer the 20 question, sir. 21 A. No, sir. 22 Q. How about any -- any product manufactured 23 or produced by Pittsburgh-Corning Corporation that may 24 have contained asbestos? Are you in a position to 25 identify any of those with any particular job site, DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 166 1 time frame, employer, contractor, subcontractor, or 2 plaintiff? 3 MR. WATERS: Objection; lack of 4 foundation, asked and answered. 5 Q. (BY MR. GONZALEZ) You can answer that 6 question, sir. 7 A. No, sir, I am not. 8 Q. Do you know what Monokote is, sir? 9 A. No, sir, I do not. 10 Q. Do you know what Zonolite is, sir? 11 A. No, sir, I do not. 12 Q. Do you know what Unibestos is, sir? 13 A. No, sir, I do not. 14 MR. GONZALEZ: Okay. Thank you, 15 sir. I pass the witness. 16 * * * 17 EXAMINATION 18 * * * 19 BY MR. HEWITT: 20 Q. Mr. Hodges, you indicated that there was a 21 Brown & Root group that had done asbestos abatement 22 that you had knowledge of; is that correct? 23 A. That's correct, yes. 24 Q. What, in general, is your understanding of 25 Brown & Root's work in terms of asbestos abatement out DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 167 1 in the workplace? 2 MR. WATERS: Objection; lack of 3 foundation. 4 A. That it's to be done by either specified 5 accrued contractors; or if it's done by Brown & Root 6 personnel, it will be done by the specially trained, 7 specially tested personnel that have been put in 8 place. 9 Q. (BY MR. HEWITT) Has that been your 10 experience in the years you've worked for 11 Brown & Root? 12 A. For the past probably 10 to 15 years, yes. 13 Q. Okay. And, in fact, is -- is Brown & Root 14 actively engaged and -- and seek out asbestos 15 abatement work? 16 A. No, sir, they do not. 17 Q. Okay. What has been your experience as 18 Brown & Root's attitude in those circumstances where 19 it may encounter insulation that does contain asbestos 20 at a given project? 21 A. We try to steer as clear of it as we can, 22 even to the point of not even subbing the work out, 23 but having the -- the customer hire their own 24 contractor to do asbestos abatement. 25 Q. Would that be somebody who specializes in DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 168 1 that type of work? 2 A. Yes, that's correct. 3 Q. You've indicated that you have had 4 occasion to review various internal memoranda and 5 documents relative to asbestos awareness and safety in 6 terms of asbestos in the workplace from Brown & Root, 7 correct? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. Okay. And some of those documents, I 10 believe, were authored by C arl Richardson; is that 11 correct? 12 A. That's correct. 13 Q. Okay. Based on your training and 14 experience in the safety department at Brown & Root, 15 would that memoranda that -- a great deal of which 16 Mr. Waters went over with you earlier on 17 cross-examination -- would that memoranda have been 18 passed down to the -- the field level -19 A. Yes. 20 MR. WATERS: Objection; calls for 21 speculation. 22 Q. (BY MR. HEWITT) -- based upon your 23 experience? 24 A. Certain of those memos would have, yes. 25 Q. And what makes you say that? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 169 1 A. I've done i t myself. 2 Q. And what wo uld be -- when you say "field 3 level," are you talking about the actual projects that 4 Brown & Roo t would be i nvolved in? , 5 A. That's corr ect. The safety supervisors 6 and the pro ject manager on the actual sites, 7 Q. Okay. You' ve been involved in monitoring 8 various pro jects on beh alf of Brown & Root over the 9 years in -- in terms of safety, correct? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. Do you reca 11 asbestos awareness or 12 asbestos ha zard trainin g ever being a topic of 13 conversatio n -- or excu se me -- a topic at safety 14 meetings at such projec t s? 15 MR. WATERS: Objection; asked and 16 answered. I asked him that. 17 A. Yes, I do remember. 18 Q. (BY MR. HEWITT) Okay. What do you recall 19 in that regards, just generally? 20 A. Well, we have had safety meeting topics 21 that have been mailed out to the projects relative to 22 various topics, among which have been asbestos. 23 We have also cautioned during safety 24 meetings that -- that the sites have done on their own 25 to caution the workers about the asbestos and if DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 170 1 there's a doubt, to contact the safety department so 2 they, can test it. 3 Q. And is this something that you have 4 knowledge of based upon your roll as a liaison between 5 corporate and the field? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. And with -- and in that regards. 8 Mr. Waters lodged an objection ago regarding asked and 9 answered. Would -- if he did ask you an earlier 10 guestion in that regards, what -- what were you 11 thinking about in terms of what he was asking you? 12 A. My interpretation of his question was, it 13 was specific -- do I remember specific memos and 14 specific times and specific instances where I was in 15 attendance at the meetings. And, no, I can't -- in 16 general, I would say, yes, we did that; but 17 specifically, I can't get specific about it, no. 18 Q. And referring to themeetings that you 19 have personally attended? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. That's how youinterpret theguestion? 22 A. Correct. 23 MR. HEWITT: We'll reserve further 24 questions until time of trail. 25 MR. WATERS: All right. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 171 1 MR. ERWIN: I reserve mine until 2 time of trial. 3 MR. WATERS: Just a couple of 4 follow-ups. 5 *** 6 R E-E XAMINATION 7 *** 8 BY MR. WATERS: 9 Q. Sir, I get the impression from the 10 testimony you just gave that Brown & Root has actively 11 tried to get away from the asbestos abatement or 12 removal work. Is that a fair statement? 13 A. That's fair. 14 Q. And you'll agree with me that one of the 15 principle reasons they've done that is that they 16 recognize, Brown & Root recognizes, that the rip out 17 or tear out or removal of asbestos insulation 18 materials is a highly dangerous and hazardous type of 19 work? 20 MR. HEWITT: Objection; speculative 21 and overbroad. 22 A. My impression of the reason that they had 23 gotten out of that business is that it's too costly to 24 pursue that business if you pursue it along the lines' 25 of the guidelines set down by the Federal government. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 172 1 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) All right. So, your 2 belief is that Brown & Root got out of the business 3 not for safety reasons, but rather because it wasn't a 4 money maker? 5 A. No. That's -- that's not entirely true, 6 no. I think safety is part of the concern; but I 7 think, as an overall picture, the cost factor ir- -- in 8 accordance also with the safety factors involved. 9 Q. All right. So, it's really a two-part 10 process? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. And with -- with respect to the safety 13 aspect. Brown & Root has recognized that that type of 14 work, the removal, rip out, tear out of asbestos 15 materials in place, is, in fact, a highly hazardous 16 operation? 17 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 18 overbroad form of the question. It's 19 speculative. 20 A. I don't know about the highly hazardous. 21 I think it's a hazardous operation, yes. 22 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Now, you indicated 23 that you feel like the information that was available 24 and the memoranda that were passed around corporate 25 headquarters would have found their way down to the DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 173 1 safety supervisors or the people at the job sites? 2 A. For the most part, yes. 3 Q. Okay. Now, you're not saying that any 4 particular document or any particular memo found it's 5 way to the work site, are you? 6 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 7 mischaracterization of his earlier 8 testimony. 9 A. I would have to see the memo before I can 10 make a determination on whether or not it more than 11 likely went to the field. 12 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) All right. In any event, 13 you will agree with me that Brown & Root's supervisory 14 employees at each and every job site were fully aware 15 of the ha zards of asbestos to the extent that their 16 employees , their -- that they were supervising were 17 working a round asbestos? 18 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 19 overbroad form of the question. It's not 20 reasonably restricted as to time period or 21 geographic location. 22 A. You -- you asked if the -- 23 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Let me ask it again. 24 A. Sure. 25 Q. Let me ask it again. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 174 1 A. All right. 2 Q. In the context of the 1970s and these 3 memoranda we've talked about, you'll agree with me 4 that the supervisory personnel at the Brown & Root 5 work sites, either in Texas or in other places, would 6 have been by the early 1970s fully aware, as was the 7 corporate headquarters, that asbestos was a hazardous 8 material and that significant precautions and 9 requirements had to be followed with respect to 10 working with it or around it? 11 MR. HEWITT: Objection; overbroad, 12 speculative, and compound. 13 MR. ERWIN: Also vague and 14 ambiguous. 15 A. I would agree that they were aware that it 16 was a regulated material. As -- as to their knowledge 17 about how hazardous and whether it was highly 18 hazardous, I can't say that. 19 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Well, certainly, 20 they would have recognized if there are a bunch of 21 rules about how you have to deal with it and all the 22 things you have to do to take care of the problem that 23 there is a hazard there, wouldn't they? 24 A. I would -- yeah, I would have to say, yes. 25 Q. Okay. And you would agree with me that if DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 175 1 on the local level at the sites, if the Brown & Root 2 supervisors did not fully implement those regulations 3 that they knew about, that they were probably just 4 being careless? 5. MR. HEWITT: Objection; 6 speculative, assumes facts not in 7 evidence. It's overbroad, vague, and 8 ambiguous. 9 A. I -- I can't -- I wouldn't be able to 10 answer that on a -- on a broad statement like that. I 11 would have to say it would depend on the individual 12 cases -- 13 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. 14 A. -- whether or not there was actual 15 asbestos exposure. 16 Q. Okay. But you don't -- you don't doubt 17 that at -- at the different work sites, certainly the 18 Brown & Root supervisory people would have had this 19 knowledge that this was a matter of potential concern, 20 at least? 21 MR. HEWITT: Objection; repetitious 22 and overbroad. 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) One moredocument which I 25 almost forgot about. We started talking about this DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 176 1 earlier, and I got off the track. I apologize. 2 It's a memorandum from Mr. Richardson, the 3 industrial hygienist for Brown & Root, to Fred Samon 4 dated November 26, 1979. 5 A. Okay. 6 Q. Okay? 7 A. Uh-huh. 8 Q. And we talked about it a little bit 9 because I asked you who Burt Hale and -10 A. Right. 11 Q. Okay. Now, here in 1979, Mr. Richardson 12 is talking about asbestos insulation tear out work, 13 just like what we've been talking about in this case, 14 that was to be performed as part of a job over there 15 in Mississippi, Jackson, Mississippi. 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. Do you see that? Now, did -- have you 18 seen this document before I showed it to you? 19 A. It may have been in that packet. I -20 Q. Okay. 21 MR. HEWITT: I'm sorry, Counsel. 22 Can we go -- briefly go off the record? 23 I'm sorry. 24 MR. WATERS: Do you need to look at 25 it? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 177 1 MR. HEWITT: Yes. 2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It is 6:57 p.m. 3 We're off the record. 4 (A recess was taken.) 5 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It is 6:57 p.m. 6 We're back on record. 7 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. And Mr. Richardson 8 is indicating that asbestos insulation tear out was 9 being performed in 1979 and that he had indicated -10 he had talked to someone and that he was to be 11 notified as to the date of insulation removal at the 12 plant so that he could allow the environmental health 13 section time to do the monitoring in order to comply 14 with the OSHA standard and to document employee 15 exposure levels. 16 Is that essentially the subject matter of 17 Mr. Richardson's memo? 18 A. Yes, sir. 19 Q. Okay. And Mr. Richardson goes on to state 20 that, "On November 20, 1979, I called Mr. Peterson 21 concerning this removal; and at that time I was 22 informed that they forgot to notify me about the 23 removal and the job was almost completed." 24 Did I read that correctly? 25 A. Yes, sir, you did. DIANA.HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C 1-800-780-2555 178 1 Q. Okay. Mr. Richardson is expressing 2 concern in this memo that as late as 1979, 3 Brown & Root is involved with tear out of asbestos ' 4 insulation and they're not completing the monitoring 5 work, as he says here, in order to comply with the 6 OSHA standard. 7 Isn't that what he's concerned about? 8 MR. HEWITT: I object to the form 9 of the question. It's speculative, 10 assumes facts not in evidence, and it's a 11 misstatements of what's contained in the 12 document itself. 13 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You can answer. 14 A. It appears to me that's the case. 15 Q. All right. If you as a safety 16 professional for Brown & Root, as late as 1979, had 17 been informed that asbestos insulation tear out work 18 was performed without doing the monitoring of exposure 19 as required under OSHA, that's presumably something 20 that would have concerned you, as well? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. And you recognize, I'm certain, 23 that what this memo talks about is a violation of the 24 OSHA regulations because they required that monitoring 2 5 be done? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 179 1 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 2 speculative form of the question. It's 3 misleading and assumes facts not in 4 evidence 5 A. I would have to agree with your 6 assessment. 7 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Then Mr. Richardson goes 8 on to say, "A more unified effort of communication is 9 needed between the job site, the division safety 10 office, and the corporate safety office on matters of 11 this nature." 12 Do you generally agree, sir, with 13 Mr. Richardson that this kind of problem could have 14 been avoided, perhaps, if there was better 15 communication between the job site, the division 16 safety office, and the corporate safety office? 17 MR. HEWITT: Objection; 18 speculative, and no predicate or 19 foundation has been made for this witness 20 to answer that question. 21 A. In this particular instance, that appears 22 to be the case. 23 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) All right. And do you 24 generally agree, sir, that that is important to try to 25 stop that kind of problem before it happens? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 180 1 MR. HEWITT: Same objections. 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) And you would agree with 4 me that with respect to whoever was in charge in 5 Jackson, Mississippi, of this work, that that person 6 was negligent in this instance, wasn't he? 7 MR. HEWITT: I object to the form 8 of the question. It calls for a legal 9 conclusion on the part of the witness and 10 is overbroad and vague and fails to set 11 out proper circumstances relative to this 12 lawsuit. 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Wetalked briefly 15 about safety meeting topics. Do you remember that? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And I think Iunderstand thedistinction 18 that you drew. 19 What you're telling us is that you recall 20 that there were materials related to the hazards of 21 asbestos, perhaps some of the things we looked at 22 here, that were sent to the various job sites for the 23 supervisors or local safety people to pass on down the 24 line? 25 A. Correct. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 18 1 Q. Okay. And what you can't tel 1 us is if, in fact, in every instance or in any inst ance those materials ultimately made their way down to the working man, can you? 5 MR. HEWITT: Objection ; repetitious 6 and a mischaracterization of his earlier 7 testimony. It's misleading. 8 A. I can tell you that the ones that were 9 sent to me to be filtered down got filter ed down, 10 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. What you can tell 11 us is, if you received those materials, y ou did what 12 you were supposed to; and, that is, you p assed them 13 down the line to the people that they cou Id help the 14 most, right? 15 A. That's correct. 16 Q. Okay. And in terms of what - - what 17 written materials may have been provided, you're 18 sitting here now, I guess, in 1997. You don't have 19 any specific recollection of a specific t ime when 20 those materials went out, do you? 21 MR. HEWITT: Objection ; overbroad 22 and vague. 23 A. No, sir. 24 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. So, e ssentially 25 what you're telling us is - let's see. Sometime DIANA-HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 182 1 between '73 and -- well, sometime in the Seventies or 2 Eighties is probably when that took place? 3 A. Yes. 4 MR. WATERS: Okay. I pass the 5 witness. 6 MR. ERWIN: Just a few questions. 7 *** 8 EXAMINATION 9 *** 10 BY MR. ERWIN: 11 Q. You-all agree with me, sir, that not every 12 tear out of asbestos-containing materials necessarily 13 presents a hazardous condition, would you not, sir? 14 A. I would agree with that. 15 Q. It depends on the amount of work being 16 done and what controls, if any, were being done around 17 the workplace, correct, sir? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. And you will agree that not every removal 20 of asbestos products would necessarily create a 21 hazardous condition, correct, sir? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. Again, it -- it depends on the amount of 24 work being done and what controls are in place, 25 correct, sir? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 183 1 A. Correct. 2 MR. ERWIN: No further questions. 3 MR. WATERS: Just a follow-up on 4 that. 5 *** 6 R E-E XAMINATION 7 *** 8 BY MR. WATERS: 9 Q. You will also agree, I presume, that every 10 time tear out work takes place under the regulations, 11 sampling or monitoring is required? 12 A. Yes. 13 MR. WATERS: No further questions. 14 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It is 7:04 p.m. 15 We're off record. 16 (Deposition concluded at 17 7:04p.m.) 18 -oOo19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 184 1 STATE OF TEXAS ) 2 COUNTY OF HARRIS ) 3 I, JOHN E. HODGES, HEREBY CERTIFY that I have 4 read the foregoing deposition, and that this 5 deposition, together with my corrections, is a true 6 and correct record of my testimony given at this 7 deposition. - 8 9 10 JOHN E. HODGES 11 12 13 14 SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO BEFORE ME by JOHN E. 15 HODGES, on this, theday of____; 16 A.D., 1997. 17 18 19 20 Notary Public in and for the 21 State of 22 23 24 25 My Commission Expires: DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 CO RRIGENDUM 185 I, JOHN E. HODGES, wish to make the following changes or corrections in the testimony as originally ' 5 given: 6 7 PAGE LINE CHANGE 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 JOHN E. HODGES 18 19 STATE OF TEXAS ) COUNTY OF) 20 SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO BEFORE ME, the 21 undersigned authority, by JOHN E. HODGES, the witness hereinbefore named, on this the day of 22 , A.D., 1997. 23 Notary Public in and for the State of 24 County of _________________________ 25 My Commission Expires: DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 186 1 STATE OF TEXAS * 2 COUNTY OF HARRIS * 3 4 I, MICHELLE MCDANIEL, a Certified Shorthand 5 Reporter in and for the State of Texas, do hereby 6 certify that the foregoing answers in response to the 7 questions propounded were made before me by 8 .JOHN E. HODGES, the witness hereinbefore named, after `9 said witness had been first duly cautioned and sworn 10 to testify to the truth, the whole truth and nothing 11 but the truth. 12 Further certification requirements pursuant to 13 Rules 205 and 206 will be certified to after they have 14 occurred. 15 I further certify the above and foregoing 16 deposition is a full, true, correct and complete 17 transcript of the proceedings had at the time of 18 taking of this deposition. 19 GIVEN 'UNDER MY HAND AND SEAL OF OFFICE on this 20 the 3Qth day of September, 1997. 21 22 23 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 5850 San Felipe, Suite 405 24 Houston, Texas 77057 (713) 952-6625 FAX (713) 952-6776 25 My Commission Expires: 12/31/98 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 187 1 SIGNATURE REQUIRED: 2 NO. 95-04-1728-D 3 MANUEL P. GONZALES, ET AL,) Plaintiffs, ) 4 VS . 5 OWENS-CORNING FIBERGLAS 6 CORP., ET AL, Defendants 7 IN THE DISTRICT COURT CAMERON COUNTY, TEXAS 10 3RD JUDICIAL DISTRICT 8 9 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF JOHN E. HODGES TAKEN ON SEPTEMBER 23, 1997 10 11 12 I, MICHELLE MCDANIEL, Certified Shorthand Reporter, CSR #5614, hereby certify that: 13 1. This deposition transcript is a true record of the testimony given by the witness named 14 herein, after said witness was duly sworn by me; 2. $ 859.00is the charge for the 15 preparation of the completed deposition transcript and any copies of exhibits attached thereto, charged to 16 Defendants Pro Rata as noted; 3. The deposition transcript was not 17 submitted to the witness for examination and signature, examination and signature having been 18 waived by the witness and all parties present; or 4. The deposition transcript was submitted on 19 September 30 to Mr. C. Andrew Watersfor the witness to examine, sign and return to DIANA HENJUM 20 REPORTING SERVICES, P.C., by October 23, 1997. 5. RETURN OF DEPOSITION TRANSCRIPT: 21 a: The deposition transcript was returned, properly executed by the witness, to the 22 deposition officer ( ). b: The deposition transcript was returned 23 unsigned because of ______ illness; ______ refusal to sign; ______ absence of witness; ______ no reason given. 24 c: The deposition was not returned ______. d: The deposition was retained by 25 by agreement of the Parties___________________________ DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 188 1 6. I further certify that the attached change/correction sheet contains any changes, and the 2 reasons therefore, made by the witness. 7. The original executed transcript, or a 3 certified copy thereof, if applicable, together with all exhibits, was ( ) was not ( ) delivered to the 4 Custodial Attorney, MR. C. ANDREW WATERS, LAW OFFICES OF ANDREW WATERS, 400 South Zang, Suite 500, Dallas, 5 Texas 75208 , on-, 1997 . 8. Pursuant to information made a part of the 6 record at the time said testimony was taken, the following includes all parties of record: 7 MR. C. ANDREW WATERS 8 LAW OFFICES OF ANDREW WATERS 400 South Zang, Suite 500 9 Dallas, Texas 75208 10 APPEARING FOR PLAINTIFFS Taxable Cost: $ 11 MR. JAMES V. HEWITT 12 MEREDITH, DONNELL & ABERNETHY 6850 Texas Commerce Tower 13 600 Travis Street Houston, Texas 77002 14 APPEARING FOR DEFENDANT 15 BROWN & ROOT, INC. Taxable Cost: $859.00 16 MR. R. HARDING ERWIN, JR. 17 MATTHIESEN & CHASE, L.L.P. 3003 Eleven Greenway Plaza 18 Houston, Texas 77046 19 APPEARING FOR DEFENDANT ARMCO 20 Taxable Cost: $ 21 MR. JUAN GONZALEZ (via telephone) ADAMS & GRAHAM, L.L.P. 22 222 East Van Buren, West Tower Harlingen, Texas 78551 23 APPEARING FOR DEFENDANTS 24 W. R. GRACE and PITTSBURGH-CORNING CORPORATION 25 Taxable Cost: DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 189 1 9. A copy of this certificate was served on all parties shown herein. 2 GIVEN UNDER MY HAND AND SEAL OF OFFICE on this the__.day of, 1997 . 3 4 5 6 CSR EXPIRATION DATE: 12/31/98 7 8 9 10 1> 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 Gonzales Group Taken on September 23, 1997 Multi-PageTM ________ -##5614 [3] 186:22 187:12 189:6 $- $[4J 187:14 188:10.15.20 ' [l] 143:14 '70 [i] 39:20 '70s [1J 91:19 '71 [3] 15:4 24:18 25:2 27:22 93:17 '72 [121 22:7 24:18 31:16 39:20 40:23 43:4 49:13 49:17 50:9 76:25 77:1 141:25 '73 [4] 22:7 24:20 31:16 182:1 '74 [l] 67:19 '75 [9] 68:4 71:13 73:6 73:12 75:10,14.24 76:6 76:17 '76[l] 146:6 164 [i] 3:6 166 [l] 3:7 167 [l] 110:10 171 [l] 3:8 182 [l] 3:9 183 [1] 3:10 184[IJ 3:12 185 [l] 3:13 187 [11 3:14 19[l| 81:25 1926 [lj 30:22 1960s [2J 53:15 96:3 1967 [l] 28:2 1969[ll 28:2 1970s [24] 23:10 32:13 33:4 35:20 36:9 37:15 57:23 62:10 90:25 91:10 92:6 94:17 119:10 128:3 128:9 129:7 130:15 140:23 141:9,15 156:20 161:4 174:2,6 1971 [IS] 14:2,22 16:15 17:2 22:10 27:5,21 29:11 31:12,19 35:11 37:11.18 39:14 56:23 59:20 118:6 139:7 20 [5] 139:4,15 148:11 159:4 177:20 200 [2] 42:12 50:5 205 [1 186:13 206 [l] 186:13 222(2] 2:19 188:22 23 [l] 187:9 23rd [2] 1:15 7:3 25 [5] 103:21 119:16 159:5.8.17 26 [3] 149:17 150:7 176:4 28 [l] 155:17 2:15(21 1:16 6:23 2:20 [l] 12:2 2:22 [i] 12:8 3- - 3 [4] 112:9 113:15 148:11 187:16 3,000[i] 158:12 3003 [2] 2:14 188:17 31 [l] 79:21 353 [l] 28:9 3:43 [l] 84:4 '77 [l] 146:17 1972 [28] 39:21 43:3,20 '79 [14} 70:25 71:13 73:6 45:16 46:12 47:2 51:18 4- - 73:12 75:10,14 76:6 77:2 51:20 53:12 54:13.20 60:6 4(4] 112:9,9 113:15 78:1,5 82:21 83:5 149:19 118:7 119:16 120:10 187:18 150:7 '80 [10J 12:23 82:1.19 83:4,11 84:10 87:22 93:8 95:1,17 '81 [4] 94:22 95:1.17 122:25 '82 [ll 94:22 '83(3] 92:17,21 93:17 121:24 122:22 123:9 129:18 130:1 131:20 133:17,24 135:24 137:3 138:13 139:7 141:24 1973 [6] 24:19,20 58:5 61:7,24 139:19 1974 [l] 62:12 1975(2] 22:13 67:24 400(3] 2:4 188:4,8 405(1] 186:23 4100 [2] 14:4 38:2 48 [l] 8:15 4:00(1] 84:8 4:24(1] 105:17 4:27(1] 105:20 '84 [U 92:17 1976 [3] 146:10,19 148:6 4:33 [i] 111:25 '97 [21 12:24 87:22 1977[iii 142:16 143:7 4:58(1] 117:19 146:5,10.12 147:7 151:12 'confidential [l] 143:14 151:16 153:18 155:17 156:5 5- - 1979(8] 70:24 149:17 5 [3] 112:9 113:15 187:20 -oOo [ii 183:18 -1- 1 [7] 105:24,25 112:8.9 113:15 148:6 187:13 I *A [21 28:3,6 10 [2] 69:21 167:12 100,000 [l] 92:5 103RD(2] 1:5 187:6 II [2] 4:3 69:21 12/31/98 [2] 186:25 189:6 12th[l] 14:2 14 [21 109:12 112:9 176:4,11 177:9,20 178:2 178:16 1980(14] 10:19,20 11:20 12:16 32:4 79:15 81:24 82:8 94:18,19,22 122:25 124:20 128:1 1980s [2] 90:25 91:10 1981 [l] 124:20 1990[l] 40:7 1995(2] 34:23 35:5 1996(2] 38:25 39:1 1997(13] 1:15 7:4 9:2 10:20 11:20 12:16 181:18 184:16 185:22 186:20 187:9 188:5 189:2 5,000 [l] 82:2 500(3] 2:4 188:4,8 50s [2] 37:9 80:1 5850(1] 186:23 5:05(1] 124:13 5:13[i] 124:16 5:43[i] 151:4 5:55[i] 151:7 5:58[i] 153:12 -6- 6(4] 68:16 133:17 147:7 188:1 600(4] 1:19 2:9 7:5 15 [5] 134:8 142:16 151:12 153:18 167:12 188:13 -2- 60s [2] 16:19 80:1 150 [1] 42:12 2(3] 112:8 140:16 187:14 6850(4] 1:19 2:8 7:6 16 [l] 131:20 2-S [2] 28:2,4 188:12 #5614 - allow JOHN E, HODGES 6:30[i] 153:14 6:31 [l] 154:10 additional [3] 59:1 73:4 146:10 6:32[i] 154:13 6:57(2] 177:2,5 -7- 7(5] 3:5 58:10 119:16 129:18 188:2 713(2] 186:24,24 75208 [3] 2:4 188:5,9 address [4] 45:3 84:13 108:9 138:16 addressed[S] 13:3 44:23 45:1 119:10 148:5 addressing [3] 44:20 62:1,1 adjourn [lj 115:12 administration [i] 28:13 77002(2] 2:9 188:13 77046(2] 2:14 188:18 77057(1] 186:24 78551 [2] 2:19 188:22 7:04(2] 183:14,17 administrative [8] 14:9 14:19 17:6.8.13 25:18,21 43:1 adopt [2] 48:12,17. adopted [l] 48:6 advance in 120:3 ________^ 8(1] 188:5 advice [i] 13:20 advise [i] 91:11 affiliated [i] 147:20 9- - 9(1] 189:1 95-04-1728-D[2] l:l 187:2 952-6625(1] 186:24 952-6776[i] 186:24 again [26] 36:23 61:1 66:5 67:4 72:17 97:9 98:21 103:19 111:7,10 114:22 126:19 127:4 129:17 132:21 134:7,12 135:21 139:17 144:10 148:6 155:6 163:1 173:23.25 182:23 9th [1] 139:20 against [i] 21:10 ago [5] 112:7 113:13 -A- 114:7 151:10 170:8 A.D [2] 184:16 185:22 abated [i] 90:12 agree [53] 34:22 35:5 46:19 54:15 56:22 57:16 59:4 63:2,9 65:10,19 abatement [7] 85.19,22 66:15,16 67:9 73:25 74:20 166:21,25 167:15,24 95:24 96:6,8,12 98:16 171:11 101:25 102:12,13,22,23 Abemethy[4] 1:18 2:8 7:5 188:12 ability [i] 91:2 able [6] 63:5 64:3 65:11 109:23 117:9 175:9 103:10,12,18 104:2,15 124:20 128:19,20 129:25 130:24 138:21 141:22 157:13 161:2 171:14 173:13 174:3,15,25 179:5 179:12,24 180:3 182:11 above [7] 1:14 13:10 182:14,19 183:9 22:25 147:12 159:24 agreed [5] 4:4,6,15,19 5:2' 160:7 186:15 agreement [2] 8:4 absence [2] 60:21 187:23 187:25 absolute [1] 133:22 agreements [i] 4:3 accident [i] 40:13 ahead [9] 46:3 48:23 accordance [2] l.2l 63:22 88:25 105:15 107:9 172:8 117:17 161:9 163:24 accrued [l] 167:5 air [24] 22:21 57:10,17,19 Act [i] 15:7 action [2] 86:17 143:8 actively [2] 167:14 171:10 58:21,24,25 59:5 75:20 93:16 94:24,25 107:24 113:23 122:19 133:17,23 139:3 140:8 141:5,8 . 142:15,15 148:17 actual [6] 23:10 125:5 136:5 169:3.6 175:14 actuality [i] 152:13 airborne [2] 33:14 120:5 al [6] 1:2,5 6:25 7:2 187:3 187:6 ADAMS [2] 2:18 188:21 Alabama^] 11:13 88:5 add [4] 71:8 113:8,14 92:24 151:23 alive [l] 20:11 adding [2] 73:4 125:25 alleged [2] 97:13 100:2 addition [i] 25:21 allow [l] 177:12 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 Index Page L Gonzales Group Taken on September 23, 1997 Multi-PageTM almost - Brown JOHN E. HODGES almost [2] 175:25 177:23 April [2] 31:19 148:6 171:11,17 172:14 173:15 author [i] 98:8 beyond [i] 6.13 along [2] 77:20 171:24 ambiguous [ii] 97:1.15 99:1 100:5.13 104:7.24 105:8 142:4 174:14 175:8 amended [l] 113:9 among [2] 159:3 169:22 amount[i8] 20 3 55:18 56:10 57:9 59:10 61:16 61:18 74:18 92:12 93:5 93:15 99:6 100:7 101:3.4 101:5 182:15.23 amounts [6] 135:1 136:16.20.22 137:2.20 ANDREW [6] 2:3.3 188:4.4.7.8 Andy [3J 7:11 110:19 153:9 announce [l] 7:9 annual [i] 35:14 answer [3] 4:9 19:15 23:7 26:21 34:5 35:9 48:24 55:3 60:18 63:18 72:8 75:4,6 93:10 97:16 100:6 102:11.21 104:14 105:1 106:23 115:6 128:18 131:10 135:17 137:12 141:20 142:11 145:24 151:23 155:4 165:19 166:5 175:10 178:13 179:20 answered [3] 166:4 169:16 170:9 answering [l] 66:25 answers pi 1:12 186:6 anytime [i] 72:13 area[5] 85:17 110:13 123:1 130:22 131:4 areas [7] 6:5 32:18 43:24 45:4 80:8 122:17 143:7 argue[5] 111:4 113:1.3 114:23,25 argumentative [2] 103:9 152:6 Arizona [i] 11:12 Arkansas [i] 11:13 ArmcO[S0] 2:16 7:14 39:19 40:5 42:21 43:5 71:2,4,12.20,23 72:3 73:9 73:12.21 75:9 82:20 91:1 91:7,11 92:6,15 93:16,22 94:25 95:22 96:2 101 18 108:1 113:25 121:12,12 121:16,21 122:4,9.10,11 122:12.25 123:11,16 124:22 127:10 128:8,16 129:8,15 130:16 188:19 arrange [l] 125:18 arrived [5] 26:24 29:10 37:11,18 52:6 articles [i] 111:18 asbestos [23S] 9:8,8 17:21 20:16 22:15,21 23:12 24:14,15 25:4,8,9 25:12 26:2,10,13 27:5 28:23 29:5,18,23 30:1,9 30:16,20 31:1,9 32:5,6 33:3,12 37:14,15 42:18 42:19 44:3,7 48:2.3 49:5 49:6,10 51:5 52:4.13 53:4 53:20 54:6,17,22 55:6,13 56:18 57:15 58:2 59:10 173:17 174:7 175:15 176:12 177:8 178:3,17 180:21 182:20 asbestos-containing [ii] 86:24 91:12 95:21 105:5 129:4 164:10,16,20 164:24 165:4 182:12 asbestos-free [2] 54 3 136:23 asbestos-induced [i] 161:24 asbestos-related [3] 54:8 90:13 162:10 asbestosis [8] 97:8 98:2 98:10,16 99:4,10 161:25 162:5 ascertainable [ij 112:16 aside [2] 75:9 160:3 aspect [2] 128:21 172:13 aspects [l] 80:7 assessment [ij 179:6 assigned [3] 123:16 130:9 149:5 assignment [3] 17:14 25:19.25 assistance [ij 127:5 assistant[u] 14.9,21 19:25 25:18 43:1,11,14 43:18 77:5 78:4 79:14 assisting [i] 16:24 associated [2] 143:24 159:21 association [l] 163:3 authored [ij 168:10 authority [i] 185:21 available [i2] 53:12,15 108:17 135:5,25 136:5,7 137:2,16,21,22 172:23 average^] 159:24 160:7 avoid [i] 61.2 avoided [i] 179:14 aware [46] 17:23,23 18:4 19:10,16,19 29:17 62:25 71:25 74:6 91:5 92:19 95:5,20.23 97:2,6,17,25 98:7 99:3 100:7,9,15,18 101:8,17 122:24 123:17 123:24 124:21 129:16 130:20 136:16 137:3 138:22 139:7 141:21 149:6 154:18 158:17 160:5,9 173:14 174:6,15 awareness [3] 113:17 168:5 169:11 away [3] 83:7,9 171:11 -B- b [3] 131:12,13 187:22 bachelor [l] 28:12 background [6] 27:9 90:19 95:16 98:17 160:6 162:2 bad[i] 81:14 bag [3] 93:22 94:16 127:23 barricades [3] 47:17 48:4 127:20 big [2] 79:22 93:7 biggerti] 81:17 biggest [i] 108:10 bills [l] 17:10 bit [4] 13:24 27:8 86:3 176:8 blankets [2] 147 8.14 blewp] 51:13 board [i] 152:15 boilers [i] 38:18 book[l] 98:8 books [2] 107:1 111:17 borax [i] 50:15 bosS[l] 81:14 boxes [l] 111:16 brand [3] 164:16,24 165:4 brand-new [i] 51.9 break [7] 59:17 83:25 84:3 111:23 146:6 151:18 151:20 briefly [3] 105:22 176:22 180:14 broad [i] 175:10 broader [i] 30:21 brought [2] 89:7,9 Brown [216] 2:11 6:19 7:16 8:17 9:11 10:8,10.23 11:14 14:1 15:5,9,17.21 16:3,4,11,24 18:4 19:2.5 19:6,9.18 20:13,14 21:7 21:13,14,19 23:11,12 24:2 26:24 27:4,12,15 29:11 30:19 31:3,8 32:3,8 33:18 anyway [2] 107:14 149:15 apologize [5] 36:2 38:6 66:7 122:15 176:1 apparent [i] 154:22 appear[2] 152:25 153:21 59:14,20,21 60:22.24 61:12,21 62:2,7,20 64:9 64:12,14,22,23 65:3.3,18 66:4,11.11,17,19 68:1 73:8,8 75:12,12,16,20 76:13,19.23 79:2,3 81:9 84:12,13,24 85:19,22 86:6 assume [2] 64:18 91:20 assumes [32] 18:1 25:15 26:18 29:21 52:18 60:12 63:16 72:5 74:10 75:1 92:8 95:3 101:24 104:10 125:1 127:13 128:11,13 131:6 135:16 136:9 137:6 based [8] 96:9 98:17 144:21 146:25 147:3 168:13,22 170:4 baseline [2] 152:14 154:21 basis [2] 69:2 153:7 34:13,22 35:3 36:8,19 37:22,24 39:3 40:3,6 41:6 42:8 44:10,13,15,23 45:2 45:6,19,22 46:11,12 47:14 47:20,23 48:5,10,11,17 49:23 50:3,23 51:15 52:8 53:18,25 54:1 55:14 58:1 appearance [2] 7:10 88:20 appearing [13] 2:5,10,15 2:20 4:5,7,20 5:3 12:5 188:10,14,19,23 apples [i] 137:7 applicable [2] 128:15 188:3 application [3] 48:1 109:3 118:21 applied [3] 18:6 19:10 25:8 applying [i] 24:21 appointed [i] 32:19 appreciate [2j 65:4 109:8 approach [i] 47:16 appropriate [4] 46:20 86:16,17 115:25 86:22 87:1,5,8,11,15,22 88:1,7,22 89:3,13,20 90:12,20.22 91:4,21 92:5 92:13,25 93:7,15 94:10 94:25 96:1,2,8,13,20,21 97:6,13 98:1,10,-15,24 99:5,10,18,22 100:3,11 100:20 101:2 105:4 107:21 108:24 111:22 113:16,17 114:2 116:25 118:9.21 119:11 120:5,6 120:17,25 121:7,8 122:19 124:21 126:9 129:10,21 130:6,9 133:18,25 134:9 134:25 136:24 138:6,15 140:3 142:8,11 143:4,6 143:13 146:18 147:8 148:7 151:15 152:11,12 153:2 155:18 156:2 157:3 157:20 158:11,18 159:3,4 159:19 160:2,7,13,18 161:13,20,23 162:5,17,19 138:19 141:19 144:8 145:9 146:22 154:6 158:25 175:6 178:10 179:3 assuming [3] 131:15 139:15 146:14 attached [S] 143:5 162:23 163:1 187:15 188:1 attaches [i] 151:14 attend [4] 21:3,25 35:13 36:2 attendance [i] 170:15 attended [3] 36:8 49:8 170:19 attending [2] 36:4,6 attention^] 89:7,9 attitude [i] 167:18 Attorney [i] 188:4 Baytown [3] 69:16 74:19 60:9 61:13 67:2,6,22 69:1 74:23 69:14 70:14 72:3,18 73:18 became [4] 35:4 62:25 79:18 87:25 become p] 14:13,18 69:13 70:13 100:9 118:8 138:22 becoming [2] 9:21 81:14 73:20 74:1,5,17,21 75:24 76:1 77:14 78:14 79:6.7 81:22 82:9 85:6,18,21 87:13 88:17 89:11,18,24 89:25 91:11,19 92:14 94:10,13 95:10 98:1 99:9 . 100:11,20 105:12,13 beforehand [i] 27:1 106:13 107:6,25 108:23 began[2] 14:22 15:3 beginning [i] 135:24 behalf [3] 30:18 119:6 169:8 109:23 110:3 111:20 112:4,8,12 114:1,14 116:5 117:1,24 118:8 119:1,6 119:15 120:10 121:18,20 122:5,12 127:10 128:8 behind [2] 38:2 78:10 129:9 130:15 133:24 belief [i] 172:2 best [4] 70:4 94:23 117:25 141:11 better [ij 179.14 134:24 135:6,25 136:6 138:13,15 140:7 141:22 142:14 143:6 144:4 145:3 145:6 146:4,11,18 147:21 149:2 150:22 151:15,19 between [i6] 4:4,6,15,19 152:2,7 156:9,16,20,21 approved [i] 126:8 approximation [i] 50:6 163:4,7,14 165:12,24 166:21,25 167:14,19,24 168:5,6 169:11,12,22,25 attorneys [5] 4:5,7,20 5:3 94:13 Austin [l] 117:21 5:2 11:21 12:11 42:12 78:7 123:24 163:3,7 170:4 179:9,15 182:1 157:9,18,23 158:7,20 160:10 161:4,11 162:3 163:14 166:21,25 167:5 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 Index Page 2 Gonzales Group Taken on September 23, 1997 Multi-Page1 Bryant - correct JOHN E. HODGES 167:11,13,18 168:6,14 169:4,8 171:10,16 172:2 172:13 173:13 174:4 175:1,18 176:3 178:3.16 188:15 Bryant [5] 131:12.13.19 132:22.22 build [3] 10:12 54:10 137:2 buildingm 15813 buildings [i] 2412 built 14] 39:6 51:11.15 136.23 bullet[l] 28:7 bunch [2] 22:25 174:20 burdensome [i] 114.8 Buren[2i 2:19 188:22 Burt [3] 150:7,9 176:9 Carolina[i] 11:i i cigarettes [i] 101:15 completed [5] 49:16 context (3j 30:1 160:5 case [13] 55:24 90:14 circumstance [ij 19:9 51:12 146:11 177:23 174:2 95:25 97:22 104:9 109:18 circumstances [H] 45:9 187:15 continue [3] 42:25 79 5 109:19 110:4 148:23 55:2,23 74:12 90:7 97:12 completing [i] 178:4 79:10 149:7 176:13 178:14 179:22 cases [l] 175:12 98:24 100:2 104:12 128:13 129:13 131:8 167:18 180:11 complex p] 81:18 continuous [ij 43.24 complexities [i] 134:24 contract p] 54:7 107-25 complied [ij 5:1 113:22 casing [i] 88:14 caused [4J 32:5 99:18.22 159:2 City {i] 1:20 COmply[2] 177:13 178:5 civil [7] 1:21 78:12 79:19 82:7,10,13.18 compound [2j 174:12 18.18 contracted [i] 90:9 contractor [7] 72:18 85:13 86:21 91:2 165:8 . causes [4] 96:21.21 98:15 claimpo] 87:14.15.17.18 100:8 87:19 97:17.19.24 98:15 causing [ij 101:2 99:3 caution [2] 134:18 claimed [l] 99:4 concern [li] 59:24 84:12 86:5 87:4 89:11 104:4 108:11 156:3 172:6 175:19 178:2 166:1 167:24 contractors [ij 167:5 controls [5] 125:25.25 134:3 182:16,24 169:25 claims [2] 100:16.18 concerned [is] 18.5,19 conversation [ij 169:13 cautioned [2j 169:23 186:9 clarification [i] 31:12 class u 17:10 107:1 18:22 33:1 60:5 66:20 conversations [5] 29:25 84:22 85:16 86:23 87:25 70:22 120:24 156:25 centimeter [i] 122.19 classified [i] 43:1 88:11,21 89:20 178:7,20 157:3 business[8] 13:16,16 certain [nj 21:12 41:25 cleaned [i] 50:24 concerning [20] 13:21 coordinator [7] 36:14 25:4 28:12 40:18 171:23 171:24 172:2 businesses [l] 19:11 -C- 47:21 91:3 96:21 108:6,8 138:24 152:18 153:5 cleaning [i] 52:15 16:25 21:4,20 32:4,10 37:19 121:14,20 122:8 44:9,12 48:12 61:21 73:12 125:11 150:9 168:24 178:22 clear [3] 27:9 132:2 75:16,20 79:2 87:22 112:8 certainly [6] 34:21 101:8 167:21 128:6 151:24 163:14 115'1,A0 136:21 174:19 clearer [2] 131:24 132:14 177:21 175 17 client [6] 88:2 90:9 concerns [2] 41:2 152:8 coordinators [i] 77:21 copied [5] 119:17,22 121:11 133:8 150:6 C [6] 2:1,3 185:1 187:24 188:4,7 C-h-a-d-w-i-c-k [ij 20:10 California [l] 11:12 calls [13] 64:15 66:13 102:5,18 103:5 104:24 certificate [2] 3:14 189:1 certification [ij 186.12 certified[6] l:16 5:6 186:4,13 187:12 188:3 certify [5] 184:3 186:6 186:15 187:12 188:1 122:10 137:24 147:25 148:2 clients [i] 74:14 Clinton [9] 14:4 36:24 36:25 38:2 39:12 77:6 108:15 145:6 146:2 close [2] 163:2,3 concluded [i] 183:16 conclusion [6] 102:6,19 103:5 104:24 142:3 180:9 concrete [i] 41:13 condition [5] 45:4 47:21 99:18 182:13,21 conditions [l] 44:14 copies [4] 109:14,19.20 187:15 copy [6] 5:6 109:16 132:7 140:18 188:3 189:1 copying [i] 108.18 core [2] 54:21 89:25 CORP [2] 1:5 187:6 142:2 159:14 160:22.24 165:15 168:20 180:8 CAMERON [2] 1:3 187:4 Campbell [is] 40:1.2,7 40:22 77:5,8,24 78:11,20 79:2,17,24 83:2,7 122:3 122:14 149:22,23 Chadwicck[i] 77:12 Chadwick [26] 20:8,11 24:25 29:16 32:14,15,19 36:1 77:11 119:25 122:16 123:8 129:18 130:1 131:19 132:22,25 133:14 134:22 136:3,11 137:3,10 138:5,12 139:18 closed [4] 38:7.16 92:15 confidential p] 143:17 92:19 143:24 144:5,12,23,23 Clothing [2] 126:8 127:20 145:1 clutch [l] 146:6 colon [2] 160:1 163:11 confirm [3] 53:3,19 60:21 comfortable [i] 66:25 confused [2] 77:15 12: coming [ij 121:7 congress [l] 15:7 corporate [i7] 12:12 13:13,15 14:6,7 44:13 78:18,21,24 80:12 105:12 142:18 170:5 172:24 174:7 179:10,16 corporation [io] 2:21 7:1 12:6 46:20 102:1,14 102:24 103:12 165:23 Campbell's [l] 149:25 Chadwick's [ij 142:23 comment [2j 15:12,13 Connecticut [i] 165:1 188:24 Canada [i] ll:ii Champion [4] 58:5 88:5 commentary p] 119:2 connection p] 31:2i corporation's pi 103:2 cancel [i] 115:15 88:25 92:23 cancer[26] 26:14 27:5 change [10] 35:23 72:14 29:6,19 31:21 40:15 59:20 72:24 105:16 113:11 100:12.21 101:3,9,20 126:17,21 148:13 151:23 102:16 103:24 159:5,9,12 185:7 comments [5] 20:15.22 30:19 119:2 153:8 Commercep] 1:19 2:8 188:12 Commission [3] 184:25 163:7 164:25 consider [7] 86:16 96:1 98:8,9 105:5 159:8,12 considered [2] 4:17 26 consisted [2] 90:2 correct pi9] 8:12 9:3,14 9:24 10:4,9,16,21 11:17 12:14 13:23 14:25 15:15 15:16,20 16:10 17:16 19:7 20:24 21:24 24:1,4 25:24 26:7 28:5,20 29:13,14 159:21.25 160:8,14 change/correction [i] 185:25 186:25 108:20 30:2 31:24 33:22 35:21 161:21,22 163:2,5,8 188:1 commitments p) 19:19 consistent [2] 133:21 36:20 42:16 43:7,16,22 cancer-causing [3] 103:2,15 104:19 cancerous [i] 99:18 cancers [4] 162:1,6 163:10,14 cannot [2] 117:2,12 capacity [4] 8:18 71:13 82:6 84:9 capital [io] 11:2 69:11 72:9,11,13,23 74:2,3,18 85:9 carefi] 174:22 careless [l] 175:4 Carl [3] 148:21 155:14 168:10 changed [6] 12:17,25 77:21 81:17 139:10 148:9 changes [2] 185:4 188:1 Channelview [3] 23:20 24:3 58:7 charge [5] 126:2 150:3 150:10 180:4 187:14 charged [l] 187:15 Charles [i] 80.15 CHASE [2] 2:13 188:17 check[i] 53:17 committee [2j 19:3,4 common [ij 47.7 communicate [i] 47:5 communication pj 66:8 179:8,15 communications [2] 73:7 76:11 companypo] 31:17 37:3 102:1,24 103:23 104:3,17 152:15 158:8 165:11 comparing [i] 137:7 140:6 construction [is] 10:1 10:23 19:11 24:3,5,7 39:11 42:14 53:19 69:7 69:12,15 71:24 135:1 158:7,8,13,19 contact [i] 170:1 contain [S] 65:3 66:11 88:1 142:11 167:19 contained [12] 4:10 24:15 53:4 66:19 84:23 86:6 108:3 114:1 129:9 Chemical [3] 49:21 61:5 compel [i] 115:20 165:12,24 178:11 68:11 compensation [i] 87.18 contains [2] 54:22 188: Chicago [l] 35:15 complete p] 117:10,12 contaminant [i] 33:14 cigarette [i] 160.11 186:16 contents pi 109:11 47:24 48:5,25 49:14,15' 50:25 51:17,24 52:9 53:25 54:14 56:16 57:20,23 58:8 58:17,20 61:9,14 62:14 63:8 77:7,10 78:2 80:22 83:6 85:7 101:10 106:9 118:17 120:1 123:6,7 125:23 128:2,4 132:23,24 133:2 134:5,6 136:1,2,25 140:14 144:20 146:7,8,12 146:15,24 149:24 151:13 151:17 153:24 158:8,9 166:22,23 168:2,7,8,11 168:12 169:5,9,10 170:6 170:20,22 172:11 176:16 180:25 181:15 182:17,18 182:21,22,25 183:1 184:6 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 Index Page 3 Gonzales Group Taken on September 23, 1997 Multi-PageTM ______ corrections - employees JOHN E. HODGES 186:16 danger[i] 47:22 designee [i] 32:16 146:25 148:5 150:18.20 25:22 37:17 40:20,24 43:2 corrections [2] 1845 dangerous [2j 105:6 despite [i] 116:23 151:14.20.24 152:8.25 78:3 80:3 133:15 185:4 correctly [li] 120:7 122:20 129:23 133:19 135:2 138:9 143:10 156:12 158:15 159:6 177:24 Corrigendum [l] 313 COSt[5] 172:7 188:10.15 188.20.25 costly [i] 171.23 Council [8] 32:24 33:17 33:19.24 34:14.23 35:4 35:14 counsel [6] 4:16,18 7:9 131:22 151:20 176:21 country [2] 80:5 140:8 County [7] 1:3.20 184:2 185:19,24 186:2 187:4 couple [3] 164:6.8 171:3 course [3] 28:10 86:17 107:2 171:18 dangers [l] 37:15 Daniel [2] 2:25 7:7 date [8] 7:3 124:19 132:2 132:10 135:4 136:4 177:11 189:6 date'sfi] 155:17 dated'[S] 131:19 142:16 149:17 157:18 176:4 dawnedfij 124:10 deal [3] 48:13 168:15 174:21 dealings 25:12 61:21 dealings [i] 37:13 dealt[2] 17:14 118:23 deaths [2] 159:5.9 decade [2] 33:3 128:3 deceased [2] 16:12,13 December^] 133:17 141:25 destroyed [2] 50:11,16 determination [i] 173:10 153:4,20 154:20 155:12 157:17.23 158:18 160:3 160:11 173:4 175:24 176:18 177:14 178:12 dying [l] 159:11 -E- determine^] 22:20 54:22 57:18 86:18 90:1 91:3 120:16.25 156:2 documentation [7] 92 4 E [23] 1:9,13 2:1,1 3:1,3 94:9.24 115:23 127:8.17 4:1,1,1 7:18.22 164:2 128:5 166:17 182:8 184:3.10.14 determined [l] 87:8 documents [32] 94:3,11 185:1,3.17.21 186:8 187:9 developed [2] 86:4 94:16 105:12 106:4 E-d-w-a-r-d [l] 8:12 162:9 107:12.25 110:5.13 111:9 Diamond [2]' 68:16 70:10 111:12 112:10.15.18.24 113:20.22.23.25 115:14 Diana [3] 7:8 186:23 187:19 116:4,12.19 117:5 121:7 138:24 148:24 149:4.10 150:21 168:5,9 died [4] 20:12 40:7,8 79:17 dodge [l] 28:7 differences [i] 137.19 doesn't [4] 9:17 65:21 98:2 110:8 different [i3] 23:25 32:23 47:8 69:23,24 78:15 done [45] 22:19 35:18 116:3 134:8 137:21 38:20 53:8 55:10 57:18 145:16 147:2 158:12 175:17 58:21,25 60:10,16 72:25 73:3 85:22 92:18 94:16 95:20 120:24 123:11,24 E-E[2] 171:6 183:6 early [22] 6:10 16:19 23:9 32:12 35:20 36:9 37:15 43:3 46:12 47:1 60:6 80:1 87:24 90:25 91:10 119:10 135:23 139:7 140:23 141:15 163:8 174:6 easily [ij 112:15 East [2] 2:19 188:22 educate [l] 81:6 educated [2] 65:12 67:10 education^] 127:2 130:3 courses [6] 28:14.16,17 decide [l] 16:5 28:19.24 29:4 decision [i] 65:13 digestive [i] 159:25 direct [2] 77:24 109:3 130:15 134:13,17 145:2 146:4,16,18 147:7,8 educational [4] 27:8 32:9 107:1 111:19 court [12] 1:2 4:22 7:8.20 Deer [2] 68:13,14 108:9 112:14 115:9.17.19 115:22 117:7 187:3 defendant^] 2:10,15 8:6 188:14.19 Court's [l] 6:20 defendants m 1.5 2.20 Courtland[2j 88:5 92:23 8:6 164:6 187:6,16 188:23 cover [i] 30.21 defense [i] 164:6 coverage [i] 47:18 deferment [i] 28:4 direction [l] 65:9 directions [ij 47:9 directly[3] 38:2 131:14 150:2 director^] 77:13 125:21 disagree [i] 137:13 disagreement [i] 99:6 148:18 152:14,20 153:22 154:3,23 166:21 167:4,5 167:6 169:1,24 171:15 178:25 182:16,16,24 Donnell [4] 1:18 2:8 7:5 188:12 dotted-line [2] 78:24 150:5 Edward [2] 8:2,11 effect [10] 4:12,23 5:7 15:16 23:11 62:24 78:9 103:9 146:20 157:1 effort [5] 53:2,17 120:16 154:20 179:8 efforts [5] 30:18 101:14 covered [5] 33:9,12 68:22 80:4 93:9 covering [8] 54:4,16,19 65:19 66:10,19 92:6 95:21 create [5] 45:20 55:18 59:6 91:14 182:20 created [l] 56:6 creates [i] 55:18 creating [i] 59:22 Crestani[i] 116:16 crews [3] 69:1,7 133:24 critical [l] 104:17 cross-examination [i] 168:17 crossed [i] 23:7 crumbling [l] 55:5 CSR [4] 186:22 187:12 189:6,6 degree [i] 76:21 discourage [i] 161:12 delivered [i] 188:3 discuss [l] 156:20 demolition [S] 72:15.17 discussed [8] 49:10 71:1 90:14 129:21 130:5 75:9 91:18 112:21 133:1 department [2S] 13:14 134:4 160:4 17:6,9 34:12 37:11.20 discusses [i] 156:7 78:10.19,22 118:16 119:25 120:11,25 125:5,9 125:10 126:5,11,14,20,24 127:6 157:24 168:14 discussing [3] 112:4 153:19 156:17 discussions [8] 73:7 170:1 75:11 76:10,11,18 79:1 depend [2] 57:9 175:11 deposem 116:18 112:20 156:16 disease [5] 97:14 98:25 99:14,15 100:3 deposed [2] 11.6:25 117:6 diseases]?] 26:10 32:4 deposition [42] 1:8,12 96:22 159:2 161:25 162:5 4:11,21 5:4,5 6:7,24 7:4 162:10 9:5 94:12 105:25 106:1,5 108:19 110:17,24 111:8 dispute [2] 99:9 100:20 113:9 114:7 115:12 distinction [i] 180:17 double-checked [i] 112:23 119:6 129:6 87:7 eight [6] 78:15 123:12,24 doubt [2] 170:1 175:16 124:19 146:9 160:14 down [13] 60:19 88:1 125:10,11 152:18 168:18 Eighties [7] 6:10 38:11 87:24 92:21,21 96:3 182:2 171:25 172:25 180:23 either [9] 36:5 41:16 181:3,9,9.13 48:16 56:1 76:22 94:22 Downtown [i] 36:22 116:16 167:4 174:5 dozens [ij 80:4 elevators [2] 68:23,24 draft [i] 27:25 Eleven [2] 2:14 188:17 dramatically [i] 160:19 eliminate [3] 61:2 31:23 59:2 drew [2] 28:9 180:18 Emil [4] 12:19,20,21 drive [8] 36:24.25 39:12 150:4 73:5 77:6 108:16 145:7 146:2 emphasis [l] 156:15 Drysdale[6] 13:7 107:16 emphasized [i] 156:9 108:13 112:17 114:20 employed [6] 8:16,17 116:24 36:21 40:6 95:9,11 cubic [l] 122:19 curiosity [i] 40:17 Custodial [i] 188:4 customer [i] 167:23 Czech [i] 11:13 -D- d [3] 3:1 185:1 187:24 Dale [2] 150:8.13 Dallas [3] 2:4 188:4,9 damage [l] 162:20 116:16 117:10,12 133:12 183:16 184:4,5,7 186:16 186:18 187:9,13,15.16,18 187:20,21.22,22,24,24 depositions [i3] 107:17 108:14,15 109:2,22 110:6 114:10,20 115:15,22,24 116:11 117:3 describe^] 11:18 13:11 15:1 described^] 56:9 61:13 127:23 designated [i] 6:4 distributed [i] 33:25 distributing [i] 81:4 DISTRICT [4] 1:2,5 187:3,6 division [i7] 10:2,3,5,17 11:6,19 12:21 13:2 78:12 79:19 82:7,10,13 150:3 150:10 179:9,15 divisions [2] 78:13,16 docks [l] 68:20 document [33] 21:1 94:4 113:12 121:11,17 133:4,8 133:10 136:14 145:11 duces [2] 107:7 112:6 due[i] 159:5 duly [3] 7:19 186:9 187:14 during [9] 17:2 20:23 54:13 141:2 151:20 152:11,12 153:2 169:23 dust [14] 55:19 56:5,10 56:15 57:9 59:7,11,23 93:16 105:5 122:17 123:9 140:17,22 duties [i6] 11:16,19 14:21 15:2 17:1,6,8,12 employee [i4] 6:19 47:17 52:8 65:10 82:9 106:24 125:18 127:2 129:19 130:3 139:2 143:23 144:11 177:14 employees [44] 42:8 45:6 46:11,21 47:15 49:2 49:5,9 50:4 58:1 60:9 63:9 63:19 65:1 66:1,2 67:2 70:14 81:22 84:22 85:6 86:6,23 87:14,14 88:10 88:17 89:15.18 101:15 120:4 126:12 127:5.10 128:8 130:9,16,22 144:2 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 Index Page 4 Gonzales Group Taken on September 23, 1997 Multi-PageTM employer - future JOHN E. HODGES 152:16 153:1 161:12 examine [i] 187:19 extrap] 132:3 far [3] 35:10 48:9 69:18 foregoing [3j 1844 173:14.16 example [i4] 18:21 26:12 extremely [2] 65:20 fasterpj 73:5 186:6,15 employer^] 165:7,13 166:1 employment [i] 14:16 encapsulated [i] 57:14 encompass [i] 113:19 encounter [i] 167:19 end[2] 92:15 133:18 ended [ii 92:20 engagedm 167:14 28:22 34:7 74:17 75:19 97:6 101:6 125:15,22 133:16 139:2 147:6 153:22 except [2] 4:8,9 excess [i] 92:5 excuse [3] 39:21 131:22 169:13 executed [2] 187:21 188:2 161:22 Exxon [5] 68:10 69:16 70:6 74:19,22 Exxon's [l] 74:21 eyepj 15:18 -F- facepi 110:7 faced [2] 134:24 138:6 fatalities [2] 50:19,22 FAXp] 186:24 Federal [5] 19:20 20:22 48:16 119:2 171:25 feedback [l] 119:2 feetp] 92:5 Felipe [l] 186:23 fellows [l] 13:20 felt [3] 21:14 120:11 foreseeable [i] 138:16 forest [8] 10:6,7,10,15.18 11:6,20 82:17 forgot [2] 175:25 177:22 form[70] 4:9 15:25 17:24 19:13 23:5 26:16 34:16 35:7 44:18 46:16 48:19 51:2 52:18 53:6 54:24 55:21 57:2 59:9 60:2 63:15 69:5 70:19 72:4 engineering [l] 1343 exhibit [3] 105:24.25 facilities [16] 10:15.24 143:15 74:9,25 91:25 92:7 95:2 English [2] 150:8,13 149:3 10:25 11:4 18:6 23:12 few [7] 62:13 105:12 96:5,17 97:10 98:19 99:23 entailed [ij 17:4 entire[4j 50:16 111:14 135:6 137:2 exhibits [7] 3:16,17 109:11 131:24 149:5 187:15 188:3 68:25 69:24 70:1 74:4 143:7 151:10 153:16 75:8,10 79:11-80:24 90:20 163:22 182:6 133:24 fiber [ij 58 24 100:23 101:23 102:4.17 103:8 104:22 105:7 106:20 114:13 118:11 123:3,11,13 127:11 entirely [ij 172:5 environment [2j 23:2 56:2 environmental [8] 8:19 9:22 13:3,21 14:11,14 148:15 177:12 exist[i] 109:15 existence^] ll:l 112:11 existing [3] 72:25 73:1,4 expensive [2] 52:16,23 experience [i4] 18:4,22 facility[52] 26:9 38:7,15 Fiberglaspj 1.4 7:1 38:18,24 39:12,15,19 41:5 187:5 42:8,22 50:4,11,17 51:9 51:11,15 61:16 68:18 fiberglass [3] 142:7,10 69:16 71:12 72:3,14 73:9 147:15 74:20,23 82:20 85:4 86:1 fibers [3] 96:13 120:6 86:21 87:1 92:6,23 93:16 122:19 128:10 131:5 135:15 136:8 138:18 141:17 142:1 143:17,19 144:6 145:8,21 146:22 152:5 156:24 158:24 159:13 160:21 172:18 173:19 178:8 179:2 180:7 equipment [i] 73:1 erecting [2] 41:15,16 Erwin [22]'2:13 3:9 7:13 7:13 8:3,9 64:15 66:13 96:25 99:1 100:13 102:9 104:6,23 124:8 160:25 19:18 64:1,3 96:9,20 98:17 135:20 161:22 167:10,17 168:14,23 experiences [l] 92:24 expert [3] 97:11 98:23 99:25 93:22 95:1,22 121:21 123:1,12,16 124:22 125:22 126:23 127:10 128:8 129:8 135:7 137:3 137:8 147:17,22 facing pi 67.17 field [15] 11:22,23 12:12 39:16 65:11 68:6 71:7 95:13 96:10 103:22 125:13 168:18 169:2 170:5 173:11 Fifties [i] 39:7 formal [i] 76:22 forth [l] 1:22 Forties [i] 74:20 forward [6] 21:22 35:22 49:13 115:24 116:11,15 171:1 174:13 182:6,10 183:2 188:16 esophagus [3] 40:ll 159:25 163:11 EXPIRATION [i] 189:6 Expires [3] 184:25 185:25 186:25 fact [20] 20:13 22:24 29:17 60:24 63:12 64:12 69:14 88:7 89:3 90:18 112:4,13 116:23 136:5 139:7 140:15 157:22 file [i] 115:20 filed[5] 5:4 107:7 108:7 111:5 113:6 files [4] 105:13 114:1 forwarded [2] 140:4,10 found [3] 160:1 172:25 173:4 foundation [7] 100:1 especially [5] 54:20 64:7 explain [i] 12:17 167:13 172:15 181:2 143:13 144:5 102:7 159:15 160:23 129:20 130:4 145:12 explosion^] 50:10,16 factor [i] 172:7 filtered p] 181:9,9 166:4 167:3 179:19 essentially [4] 48:11 128:12 177:16 181:24 et [6] 1:2,5 6:25 7:2 187:3 187:6 Ethyl [2] 68:10 70:9 eveningp] 113:10 51:3,19 52:15 factors [2] 101:5 172:8 expose [l] 65:13 facts [36] 18:1 25:15 exposed [22] 17:22 46:10 26:18 29:21 52:19 55:23 66:3 87:15 88:11 89:12 60:12 63:16 72:5 74:10 89:13 102:15 103:1,14 74:12 75:1 92:8 95:3 104:5,19 120:5,13 153:1 101:24 104:9,10,12 125:1 finalized [i] 15:14 fine [2] 34:9 145:20 finish p] 135:10 finished [i] 51:21 finishes [i] 134.22 four [4] 61:8 71:15 134:7 146:19 fourth [1] 157:7 frame[24] 12:16.23 19:17 20:23 42:14 71:21 73:6 75:14,21 76:7,12 80:14 event [3] 77:23 86:15 173:12 events [ij 129.15 eventually [i] 150:13 evidence [36] 4:il 18:2 25:16 26:19 29:21 52:19 60:12 63:17 72:6,7 74:10 75:1 92:9 95:4 101:24 104:11 125:2 127:14 128:12 130:11 131:7 135:16 136:10 137:6 138:20 139:16 141:19 144:9 145:10 146:23 154:7 158:25 162:15 175:7 178:10 179:4 159:4 160:6,12,18,20 161:13 162:9 exposure [40] 22:12,14 26:13 31:23 44:6 45:21 47:18 73:8 75:12 96:21 97:7,13 98:2,25.99:5,6,7 99:10,19 100:3,7,12,20 101:4,20 120:17 121:7 131:3 152:11,16,21 155:18 159:11 162:17,19 163:4,8 175:15 177:15 178:18 exposures [7] 61:3 96:1 99:22 121:1,19 147:11 153:6 127:13 128:12 131:6 135:16 136:9 137:6 138:19 139:15 141:19 144:8 145:10 146:23 154:6 158:25 175:6 178:10 179:3 failed pi 104:17 fails [4] 103:5 104:2 110:12 180:10 fair [25] 6:16 9:10 21:11 21:12 27:7 30:6,6,7 32:1 56:7 59:12 67:19 76:15 86:15 93:4 95:19 99:14 138:4 142:13 148:4 150:17 157:6 163:16 first [2S] 7:19 14:13 26:1 82:25 87:16 118:7 120:10 28:8 35:3 39:9,10,16,18 121:6 124:24 139:15 39:19,19 42:25 51:16 58:4 148:10 154:2 165:5,13 84:19 109:7 112:7 119:17 166:1 120:7,20 129:23 133:19 138:8 145:5 146:5 156:11 159:6 186:9 fit[l] 13:9 five [3] 61:8 122:18 146:19 flat [i] 35:5 folks [9] 12:13 46:22 47:20 53:18 121:18 129:9 138:12 157:24 162:4 frames [4] 139:8,10,11 139:11 Frank [i] 36:12 Fred [7] 142:20,22 148:5 150:5,13,15 176:3 Freeport [i] 49:21 freshen [ij 50:14 friction [i] 158:14 friend pi 124:9 folloW[S] 23:1 31:18 front [l] 132:12 exact[2] 58:24 131:14 exactly [3] 110:15,16 116:7 expressed [1] 84:12 expressing [2] 104:4 178:1 171:12,13 fairly [ij 109:24 fall [3] 110:8 146:5,16 70:15 104:2,18 follow-up [l] 183:3 follow-ups [1] 171:4 full [21 7:25 186:16 fully [4] 4:25 173:14 174:6 175:2 examm 130:11 examination [6] 3:5,6.7 3:9 187:17,17 examinations [i] 125:16 extend [2] 45:4,21 extent[i4] 17:25 25:11 55:8,9 73:25 102:9 104:8 108:5 111:13 123:8 148:17 154:19 158:25 173:15 familiar [7] 60:20 69:13 70:13 74:21 90:18 118:9 148:2 familiarize [i] 150.19 family p] 23:24,25 followed [l] 174:9 funp] 35:23 following [4] 4:3 156:21 function [2] 130:10 185:3 188:6 162:16 follows [l] 7:20 force [3] 4:12,23 5:7 future [4] 90:14 132:15 136:4 138:16 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 Index Page 5 Gonzales Group Taken on September 23, 1997 Multi-PageT G - installed JOHN E. HODGES great [i] 168:15 headquarters [6] 14:6,7 high [i] 161:22 impression [2] 171:9.22 -G- Greenway [2] 2:14 39:13 141:8 172:25 174:7 highly [7] 63:17 75:2 improper [i] 103:7 G [2J 4:1 185:1 Gaines [3] 13:7 112:17 116:24 Gaines'[3] 107:16 .108:13 114:21 188:17 Greg[(] 155:15 ground [2] 25:15 144 7 grounds [4] 18:17 26:17 145:9,22 health [26] 8:19 9:10.22 14:23 15:3.7 28:16.18.23 37:11 41:1 44:25 45:3.12 45:14,18 46:8.21 47:1 48:1 74:22 80:20 107:3 118:1 125:5 177:12 114:7 171:18 172:15.20 174:17 highway [2] 37:20 67:21 himself [2] 65:12,13 hirem 167:23 improvement [8] 72:10 72:12,13,24 74:2,3,19 85:9 improvements [2] 11:3 69:11 gamma [i] 110:9 group [6] 13:15 67:21 hear[2] 45:25 112:23 Hodge [ij 110:4 in-house [2] 33:2 162:3 garage [i] 145:7 Garvin [2] 15515.15 gastrointestinal [i] 162:1 gathering [i] 1094 85:21 118:4,5 166:21 groups [2] 159:3 160:1 guess [17] 37:8 39:14 42:11 50:5 54:11 62:10 66:24 75:9 77:13 82:3,4 103:21 119:16 141:6 heard [l] 99:15 hearing [i] 5:5 hearings [2] 21:4.25 heavily [i] 159:4 heavy [i] 82:18 general [22] 17:12 28:18 142:11 148:22 181:18 Heit [4] 107:16 108:13 30 24 33:9 44:23 45:11 guidance^] 11:23 81:23 14:20 116:24 45 13,14,18 47:1.25 60:20 70 13 89:23 108:22 120:10 121:2 160:5.15 guidelines [2] 171:25 94:10 help [2] 27:9 181:13 Henjum[3] 7:8 186:23 161:21 166:24 170:16 guy [3] 73:18,20 77:18 187:19 generalization [ij 65:25 guyS[l] 124:8 hereby [4] 4:6 184:3 186:5 187:12 generally [i3] 32:10 36:4 -H- 47:14 48:6 63:10 73:13 103:7 108:21 119:3 161:5 Hale [31 150:7,9 176:9 169:19 179:12,24 half [i] 106:17 gentleman [4] 16:18 Halliburton [i] 95:11 herein [7] 4:5,7,10,20 5:3 187:14 189:1 hereinafter [i] 1:22 hereinbefore [2] 185:21 186:8 37:7 52:7 118:14 hand[3] 55:5 186:19 hereto [4] 4:7,16,20 5:3 Hodges [18] 1:9,13 3:3 6:6.24 7:18 8:2 137:9 151:9 166:20 184:3,10.15 185:3,17,21 186:8 187:9 hold[l] 67:15 hole[l] 47:17 holes [l] 47:18 home [3] 77:4 78:8 149:20 horn[i] 110:25 hour [3] 71:18 106:17,17 hours [2] 71:21 106:17 house [3] 93:22 94:16 127:23 Houston [18] 1:20 2:9 2:14 12:13 14:4 23:21 68:20 123:1 140:5,10,12 140:18,21 141:7 146:7 186:24 188:13,18 INC [2] 2:11 188:15 include [S] 44:1,5 51:5 60:23 153:21 includes [l] 188:6 including [3] 44.7 107 1 161:25 incomplete [2] 104:7 160:25 Incorporated [ij 7.16 increased [S] 159:20 160:19 161:24 162:4 163:4 incredible [l] 113.18 indicate [io] 45:19 93:15 123:10 124:3,23 127:8 148:9 154:2 155:12 159:3 indicated [9] 21:391:22 104:3 147:11 154:22 166:20 168:3 172:22 gentlemen [3] 36:6 150:6,8 ' 189:2 handled [l] 116:1 Hewitt [172] 2:7 3:7 6:6 hygiene[i4j 13:14 28:15 177:9 6:12,18 7:15.15 11:25 80:8,11,12,19 93:10 indicates [7] 92:4 94:24 geographic [3] 55:1 57:3 hands [i] 116:21 15:24 17:24 18:7,16 19:12 108:21,22 111:14,21 134:16 146:3 157:9 173:21 hands-on [ij 131:2 20:17 21:15 23:4 25:14 117:14 143:13 157:24 158:10 160:12 Georgia [i] ll:ll GI[l] 162:6 handwriting [ij 162:23 handwritten [2] 162:22 given [10] 9:4 128:15 163:1 130:9 167:20 184:6 185:5 186:19 187:13,23 189:2 giving [l] 30:19 goes [14] 39:7 50:15 122:16 130:8 132:16 134:2,12 138:5 143:12 145:3 159:19 161:16 177:19 179:7 gone [6] 15:15 33:14,15 90:11 121:15.20 happy [2] 112:23 145:25 harassment [ij 114:13 Harding[3] 2:13 7:13 188:16 Harlingen [2] 2:19 188:22 Harris [3] 1:20 184:2 186:2 Harry [i] 117:21 Gonzales [3] 1:2 6:25 187:3 Gonzalez[i3] 2:18 3:6 12:4.5 92:10 163:22,25 164:4,5 165:19 166:5,14 188:21 good [3] 4:17 8:6 83:24 goodness [ij 103:21 Goodyear [ij 68:11 hazard pi] 47:22 59:2 61:22 62:2,22 64:25 67:17 86:19 91:13 169:12 174:23 hazardous [36] 26:2,6 44:2,6,14,14 45:4,20,21 47:21 61:2 63:5,11,13 64:5,10,13,22 65:18,19 65:22 66:11,17 96:14 102:3 103:1,24 171:18 26:16 28:25 29:7,20 30:7 30:12 31:10 34:3,15,24 35:7 41:21 44:17 45:7.23 46:15 47:10 48:18,21 52:17 53:5 54:23 55:20 57:1,22 59:8 60:1,11 hygienist [S] 75:23 95:7 142:18 157:8 176:3 hypothetical [2] 104:7 161:1 indicating [i] 177:8 individual [5] 108:7 113:7 125:11 144:1 175:11 individuals [l] 144:19 63:14 65:23 66:21 69:3,5 -i- industrial [30] 13:13 70:18 72:4 74:8,24 82:4 83:24 84:2 91:15,24 92:7 idea[5] 30:19 64:9 131:1 94:12 95:2 96:4,16,23 134:23 162:22 97:9 98:4.19 99:23 100:23 Identification [i] 129:3 28:15,15,17 75:23 78:12 79:19 80:7,8,10,11,12,19 80:20 82:7,10,13 93:9 95:7 107:3 108:21,22 101:22 102:4,17 103:4,16 identified [5] 90:12,13 104:10,21 105:7 106:13 90:15 119:15 142:17 111:14,21 117:14 142:18 143:13 157:8,24 176:3 106:19,22 107:6,10,18,21 107:23 109:6,10,13 110:2 110:12,19 111:3,7 112:21 112:25 113:5,14 114:11 114:17,22 115:2,7 116:14 118:10 121:25 123:2,13 124:1,4,25 125:7 127:11 128:10,24 129:11 130:17 131:5,22 132:6,13,18 135:9,14 136:8 137:5 138:17 139:13 140:24 identify [8] 129:7 164:10 industry [3] 158:8,13,19 164:15,23 165:3,10,17,25 informal [i] 76:23 illness [l] 187:23 information [i4] 26:24 Illnesses [2] 31:25 32:1 immediate [2] 12:15,18 impact [3] 15:18,22 44:15 impaired [l] 162:15 impending [ij 18:23 28:23 29:5 32:20 64:24 128:5,6 143:5 144:5 147:1 155:23 157:19 172:23 188:5 informed[5] 63:12 64:21 89:16 177:22 178:17 initial [14] 14:15 22:23 141:14,16 142:1 143:18 implement [i] 175:2 51:13,13 53:19 76:24 government [5] 20:23 21:23 30:20 119:3 171:25 172:15,20,21 174:7,17,18 182:13,21 144:6 145:8.18,21 146:21 implementation [2] 149:9,14 151:2 152:4 23:10 125:6 128:22 139:10 155:24 156:7,8,16 157:10,15 Grace [4] 2:21 12:5 165:11 188:24 graduate [i] 27:20 graduated [i] 27:13 hazards [29] 9:8 26:9 29:18 33:3,12 37:14 44:2 44:6 46:10,14 48:13,13 49:6,9 59:21 65:14 67:10 67:11,14,15 76:19,23 79:2 154:5 156:23 157:25 158:23 159:13 160:21 161:8 163:24 166:19 167:9 168:22 169:18 170:23 171:20 172:17 implementing [2] 24:9 24:21 importance [l] 157:14 important [7] 109:25 initiated [ij 143:8 injuries [i] 31:23 inside [i] 61:18 insofar [i] 32:25 GRAHAM [2] 2:18 188:21 81:9 92:25 113:17 119:11 173:6,18 174:11 175:5,21 128:21 129:2,20 130:4 173:15 180:20 176:21 177:1 178:8 179:1 157:9 179:24 inspectors [5] 156:9,15 156:20 157:1,3 grain [2] 68:23,24 Grange [i] 147:18 head [2] 77:18 125:8 heading [i] 65:8 179:17 180:1,7 181:5,21 188:11 imprecise [3] 97:12,15 98:21 installation [i] 51:25 installed [2] 54:20 86:10 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 Index Page 6 Gonzales Group Taken on September 23, 1997 Multi-PageTM instance - may JOHN E. HODGES instance [8j 1:13 47:18 laboratory [i] 140:17 lists [2] 145:2 163:10 11:21 15:5 82:10 132:23 5S:23 83:12 179:21 180:6 -J- lack [3] 104:4 166:3 167:2 literally [2] 80:4 113:19 manager [40] 8:20 9:21 181:2.2 instances [5] 59:13 84:11 87:21 146:10 170:14 instruct [2] 65:1 106:22 instructions [ij 6:21 Jackson[2j 176:15 180:5 laid [3] 102:7 159:16 JAMES [2] 2:7 188:11 160:23 Januaiy[6] 9:1.2 10:20 61:7 139:19,20 large(7] 108:16 126:23 135:1 136:16,19,21 137:1 Jim[2] 7:15 163:20 last [12] 13:1 17:25 20:9 23:5 25:14 96:17 100:24 insulated [5] 52:13 job [38] 27:15 42:10 47:7 101:23 117:6 157:11 53:23 61:17 135:7 137:20 49:18.20 52:1 61:6 70:23 158:24 162:11 literature [i] 81:5 litigation [5] 110:1 116:13,20 117:1 164:7 lobbying [i] 119:5 local [2] 175:1 180:23 located [3] 1:18 38:1 45:5 10:2,3,18 11:6,6.20 13:2 19:25 20:8 53:22.24.25 54:2 77:5.9.16.17 78:4.6 79:14,18 82:7,16 84:10 87:23 93:1 99:9 100:11 100:19 101:13 119:25 125:9 126:22 133:1 143:1 143:2 148:6 169:6 insulating [ij 54:6 78:7.7 79:22 80:18 81:5 83:19 89:6.11 120:16 lastly [l] 103:11 location [4] 41:4,5 57:4 managers [3] 77:22 173:21 125:13 139:18 insulation [44] 51:2.6 53:2.1 1 55:13 56:1.19 57:16.58:12 59:6 60:22 61:22 62:7 63:5 64:7 65:2 84:23 85:12.14 86:6.9,22 125:17 136:1.22 140:7.19 150:14 152:20 156:10 161:6 164:11.17.20 165:13.25 173:1.14 176:14 177:23 179:9,15 late [14] 8:25 37:9 38:12 39:14 50:9 62:10 80:1 87:24.24 92:20 120:10 133:23 178:2,16 LAW [3] 2:3 188:4.8 locations [3] 55:1 120:3 120:12 lodged [l] 170:8 log [4] 143:5,9,12 151:14 Manuel [3] 1:2 6:25 . 187:3 manufacture [2] 10:10 10:15 S6:22,24 87:1 88:15 91:21 180:22 101:19 129:8 135:5.24 142:7.8.10 153:22 154:24 158:14 167:19 171:17 jobs [5] 71:6 120:4 161:7 161:10,10 176:12 177:8.11 178:4,17 John [16] 1:9,13 3:3 6:24 interact^] 89:19 90:22 7:18 8:2.11 12:25 184:3 184:10,14 185:3,17,21 interaction [2] 73:11 186:8 187:9 76:5 Johnson [i] 73:16 interested [ij 18:5 join [I] 92:10 lawsuit [8] 45:10 55:2 74:13 104:13 114:18 129:14 131:9 180:12 lawyer [5] 106:13 110:3 152:2,7 164:6 lawyers [2] 105:14 150:22 learned [5] 26:1,23 27:4 28:22 96:19 longer [2] 82:14 95:9 look [18] 46:20 54:16 88:15 94:6 105:23 109:9 131:18 132:11 134:21 144:25 147:6 148:4,8,20 150:18 152:18 156:6 176:24 looked [3] 35:22 131:21 180:21 manufactured [2] 165:11.22 manufacturer [3] 164.19,25 165:5 manufacturing [ij 137:2 March [4] 14:2 27:4 29:11 31:19 mark[i] 131:23 internal [i] 168:4 interpret [ij 170:21 joined [i] 33:21 JR [2] 2:13 188:16 learning^] 45:15 162:18 looking [3] 162:25 121:10 141:2 marked [5] 3:17 62:20 90:17,20 105:24 least [io] 33:3 35:11 64.6 interpretation [3] 118:20,21 170:12 interpreted [ij 30:25 interrupt [i] 8:3 interview [ij 112.16 Juan [4] 2:18 12:4 164:5 188:21 judge [2] 110:25 111:24 JUDICIAL [2] 1:5 187:6 76:13 90:13 91:19 139:4 154:23 162:3 175:20 led [l] 64:13 left [2] 27:17,18 legal [16] 102:2,5,10,14 looks [3] 133:7 134:7 145:5 lottery [i] 28:8 Louisiana [i] 11:12 Lubrizol[i] 68:11 market [2] 134:25 136:16 markings] 62:6,6.16 Maryland [5] 85:1.3,24 88:10 92:23 mask[i] 67:1 inverse [ij 145:4 July[l] 146:6 investigators [i] 162:15 jury[i] 95:25 involve [io] 9:10 10:22 10:24 11:2.7 45:20 51:2 68:7 72:14 84:21 -K- 102:18,20,24 103:5,6,12 104:24,25 118:16 141:23 142:2 180:8 lemon [l] 50:14 lengthier[2] 52:16 involved [32] 14:10,13 keep[2] 49:13 148:10 139:11 15:8 16:3 17:8 18:25 22:3 keepings] 20:3 lengthy [1] 138:25 22:4,6 24:2 30:9 37:10 Keith [2] 16:8 18:25 less [2] 162:16,18 53:18 58:1 60:9 81:4 82:9 85:18,24 88:19 89:19 kept [l] 143:13 letter [l] 134:22 101:13 118:25 119:5 kind [13] 15:18 20:21 level [7] 22:12,14 152:16 129:22 130:5 138:12 32:3,20 35:23 54:21 81:14 152:17 168:18 169:3 158:20 169:4,7 172:8 85:4 93:6 144:22 147:17 175:1 178:3 179:13,25 levels [6] 22:21,24 57:18 involvement [i3] 6:15 knew [13] 23:22 27:1 13:19 23:9 24:8,21 42:18 31:20 59:20 64:12 72:9 58:24 156:2 177:15 liaison [3] 11:2178:7 Lufkin [3] 23:23 38:21 material [3S] 24:14 53:23 39:3 54:6,8 56:13 59:14 60:22 Luke [5] 85:1,3,23 88:10 64:14,23 65:21 85:12 92:22 86:18,20 87:8,10,25 88:3 lung [19] 26:14 27:5 29:18 96:22 97:7 100:12,21 101:3,9 159:5,9,11 160:14 161:21 162:16,19 163:2,4 163:8 88:6,20,21 89:1,19 90:2 90:13,20 95:21 96:14 104:1 107:23 108:17 111:17 129:3 131:3 174:8 174:16 materials [45] 32:9 33:24 -M- 51:3,6,10 52:1,14 53:2,11 53:20 62:20 63:5,11.13 M[8] 4:1 7:22 164:2 166:17 171:6 182:8 183:6 185:1 machine [i] 58:11 64:5 81:4 87:4 91:3,12,13 91:21 101:18,19 107:1,2 107:5 108:23 111:19 112:5 117:13 126:14 129:8 135:8 143:16 92:20,25 95:14,15 101:14 135:6,6,19 136:6,11 170:4 mailed [i] 169:21 154:24 158:14,19 171:18 118:20 148:14 142:10 175:3 library [3] 108:21 111:14 main[i] 59:11 172:15 180:20 181:3,11 involving [3] 42:18 79:6 Knowing p] 59:16,19 111:21 maintained [4] 111:20 181:17,20 182:12 146:6 knowledge [is] 29:12 likely [3] 28:21 63:10 140:4,13 143:16 matter[5] 6:24 112:13 Isolation [l] 130:21 issue [3] 37:14 84:13 90:24 104:12 116:2 issues [5] 75:11 80:17 131:8,9 148:15 item[3] 112:8 113:8 140:16 items [3] 96:7 108:2 113:15 itself [4] 85:19 86:21 136:14 178:12 53:8,9 94:23 108:6 123:10 173:11 123:23 128:6 129:6 130:14 147:2 166:22 limit [l] 17:20 170:4 174:16 175:19 limitations [i] 17:21 known [4] 26:13,19 102:3 limited [3] 6:9 29:12 112:10 55:22 knows [3] 103:23,25 limits [2] 122:18 147:12 116:6 line [4] 77:20 180:24 181:13 185:7 -L- L-u-k-e[i] 85:3 L.L.P [4] 2:13,18 188:17 188:21 linear [i] 92:5 lines [i] 171:24 list [5] 71:9 106:4 134:2 146:3 149:3 maintaining [3] 111:22 140:22 144:4 maintenance [i2] 10:25 11:3 24:6 42:15 69:1,10 69:15 72:2 74:1,18 138:6 138:14 majority [i] 54:12 maker [i] 172:4 makes [i] 168:25 man [2] 8:13 181:4 managed [ij 28:7 management [S] 9:23 115:8 175:19 177:16 matters [16] 9:11 13:4 14:11,14,24 32:10 43:18 69:20 80:20 93:6,6 108:8 108:8 118:2 119:7 179:10 MATTHIESEN[2] 2:13 188:17 max[i] 111:2 may[S9] 4:10,21 5:6 19:20 23:7 27:9 29:12 30:25 31:3 43:10 46:10 62:12 66:11 67:19 68:21 69:4,7 72:14,15,17 84:20 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 Index Page 7 Gonzales Group Taken on September 2-3-7, 1- '99' 7__________ 87:4 88:1 89:20 90:21 91:13 92:18 96:1.1,12 99:11 101:3 102:15 103:1 103:14 104:5 108:5.11,11 109:21 118:3 122:6 131:3 137:10.22 141:12 150:15 152:3 153:1 154:20,21,22 155:21 159:2 165:12.23 167:19 176:19 181:17 63:4 88:11.21 89:12 91:3 91:3.14 113:8 120:12,16 121:1 129:9 132:18 Mike[l] 106:6 military [l] 27:23 mill [4J 23:22 37:22 39:4 85:5 mills [31 10:12.12.13 McDANIEL [5] 1:16 186:4.22 187:12 189:6 mind [51 30:5 67:7 84:18 93:3 108:4 mean [18] 19:5 27:7 36:17 minefi] 171:1 58:5 72:1183:19 107:15 110:17.23 111:16 116:17 116:20 117:8 121:4 126:22 132:9 146:17 minerals [i] 82:18 minimum[i] 57:16 mining [i] 82:18 159:10 minute [3] 124:12 151:3 means [2] 72:24 145.16 160:13 measures [3] 56:8 127:9 128:7 mechanisms [2] 56:19 56:24 media [ij 29:9 medical [9] 87:17 97:11 98:22 99:25 139:3 143:23 144:11 156:8 160:24 mischaracterization [8] 48:22 98:5 123:4 124:5 136:13 145:11 173:7 181:6 misleading [26) 35:8 48:19 72:6 74:11 75:2 92:9 98:4 100:5 103:17 123:4,15 124:4 125:2 128:11,17 131:7 136:12 meeting [4] 49:8,9 137:7 138:19 143:20 169:20 180:15 145:23 146:22 154:6 meetings [8] 35:15 49:2 159:16 179:3 181:7 49:5 120:23 169:14,24 missed [l] 46:2 170:15,18 Mississippi [6] 27:14 member^] 33:18 34:13 27:19 28:11 176:15,15 34:22 35:4,10 40:2 78:10 180:5 78:21,23 misstatement [i] memo [13] 119:15,16 123:14 120:20 123:25 128:14 129:18 137:11 150:10 173:4,9 177:17 178:2,23 memoranda [S] 168:4 168:15,17 172:24 174:3 memorandum [i6] 120:23 124:20 131:19 132:21 139:18 142:16 misstatements [i] 178:11 misstates [3] 102:10,19 104:25 mistaken [2] 50:21 94:8 modification [i] 72:25 moment [i] 75:10 148:20 149:17 150:1,7 moments [i] 151:10 151:11 153:18 155:14,19 Monday [2] 115:20 156:5 176:2 117:16 memOS[3] 119:10 168:24 money [l] 172:4 170:13 monitor [i] 40:25 mentioned [ij 33,16 monitoring [46] 22:19 Meredith [4] 1:18 2:8 57:18 58:21,25 59:5,11 7:5 188:12 94:25 113:24 121:8 mesothelioma [5] 99:15 128:22 134:13,17 139:2,3 99:21 159:20 161:25 140:9,17,22 141:5,8 162:6 142:15 143:6,9 144:11,22 mess[l] 50:24 met [3] 106:12,16 142:14 method [ij 56:14 145:2,5 146:5,16,18 148:18 151:15,15 153:21 155:25,25 156:7,8,17 157:10,15 169:7 177:13 methods [2] 44:5 134:8 178:4,18.24 183:11 Mexico [l] 11:12 Monokotem 166:8 MICHELLE [5] 1:16 186:4.22 187:12 189:6 microphone [l] 59:18 month [i] 162:9 months [6] 8:24 43:21 43:23 54:11 61:8 62:13 mid [2] 37:9 92:21 might [20] 15:18 19:5 29:5 32:23,24 33:15 63:4 moral [4] 102:2,14,24 103:13 most[li] 38:23 48:14 Multi-Page1 McDANIEL - occupational JOHN E. HODGES 50:18 68:22 71:17.18 90:10.19 128:21 173:2 181:14 mostly [l] 24:7 non[i] 45:22 nonasbestos [8] 51:10 53:11,21.23 54:4 86:22 135:7,24 25:20 26:1,8 29:16 30:1,4 36:1 133:7 Nystrom's[i] 19:23 motion [i] 115:20 moved [7j 24.18 27.14 77:4 79:17 82:25 83:2 149:20 moving [l] 134:11 multiple [l] 70:6 must[l] 133:16 none [8] 30:4 54:7 76:10 76:11,13,14 108:17 162:24 nonemployees [3] 102:25 103:13 10.4:19 nonresponsive [8] 65 6 66:6 67:5 72:21 93:13 123:21 138:2 155:3 -O- O [7] 7:22 164:2 166:17 171:6 182:8 183:6 185:1 o'clock[i] 84:8 Oath[i] 35:3 object [77] 15:24 17:24 18:16 19:12 23:4 25:15 -N- Nonsmoker(i) 161:20 nonsmokers [i] 161:17 N [16] 2:1 3:1 4:1 7:22.22 nonsmoking [i] 161:21 164:2,2 166:17,17 171:6 171:6 182:8.8 183:6.6 nor [2] 124:22 137:23 185:1 normal [4] 89:17 105:4 N-y-s-t-r-o-m[i] 16:9 152:11,16 name [12] 7:25 20:9 36:22 normally [2] 90:23 93.9 39:15 52:10 73:22 98:13 northeast [i] 23:20 26:16 34:15 35:7 44:17 46:15 48:18 52:17 53:5 54:23 55:20 57:1 59:8 60:1 63:14 66:6 67:5 69:3 70:18 72:4.20 74^8,24 91:24 93:12 95:2 96:4,16 97:9 98:19 99:23 100:23 101:22 102:4,17 103:7 104:21 105:7 106:19 118:10 123:2,13 127:11 117:22 135:20 164:16.25 NoS[l] 112:8 128:10 131:5 135:9,14 165:4 named [4] 118:14 185:21 186:8 187:13 names [2] 52:1 73:24 National [9] 32:23 33:17 33:18,24 34:8,13,23 35:4 35:13 nationwide [i] 79:8 Notary [3] 4:21 184:20 185:23 noted [i] 187:16 notes [3] 107:1 162:22 163:1 nothing^] 114:13 116:3 116:3 186:10 notice [3] 1:23 105:25 136:8 137:5 138:1,17 139:13 141:14,16 142:1 143:18 144:6 145:8,21 146:21 152:4 155:2 156:23 158:23 159:13 160:21 172:17 173:6.18 178:8 179:1 180:7 objection [52] 416 8:5 18:7 20:17 21:15 28:25 nature [is] 15:2 17:13 113:9 29:7,20 31:10 34:3,24 24:6 33:9 41:9 44:10,13 noticed [i] 89:6 58:9 72:1 73:2 83:17 84:14 121:2 134:4 179:11 notification [3] 127:3 129:19 130:3 nearp] 23:23 notified [i] 177.11 necessarily [3] 137:22 182:12,20 notify [i] 177:22 necessary [2] 31:4 132:9 notifying [i] 80:11 need [to] 59:5,17 67:10 67:11 71:8 121:18 122:17 123:9 147:4 176:24 November [26] 67:24 68:4 70:24,25 75:24 76:6 76:6,17 77:2 78:1,4 82:20 83:4 119:16 121:23 needed[6] 13:20 51:22 122:22 129:18 131:20 84:13 120:11 143:8 179:9 142:16 149:17,19 150:7 41:21 45:7,23 47:10 60:11 64:15 65:5,23 66:13.21 91:15 92:7,11 96:23 98:4 104:6 121:25 123:20 124:1,4,25 125:7 128:24 129:11 130:17 140:24 154:5 161:8 165:15 166:3 167:2 168:20 169:15 170:8 171:20 174:11 175:5,21 179:17 181:5,21 objections [9] 4:8 103:4 103:16 107:7 108:7 111:5 113:7,20 180:1 needs [2] 65:14 120:3 151:12 153:18 176:4 obligation [6] 102:2,14 negative [2] 56:1,14 negligent [i] 180:6 netp] 81:23 Nevada [i] 11:12 never[2j 27.17,18 new [i] 10:23,23 11:12 17:15 24:5,7,9 25:2,3 42:14 69:12 71:24 116:3 118:21 135:1,4 news [2] 29:9 34:8 next [5] 42:21 77:3 109:19 115:20 117:16 nine [5] 8:23 43:21.23 54:11 123:12 nine-year[2] 123:25 124:19 Nineties [i] 87:24 nobody [2j 114:24 163:23 noise [l] 59:18 177:20 102:25 103:13 141:23 now [33] 36:18 52:12 142:14 57:23 61:12 68:7 73:18 obligations [2] 19:20 77:22 82:15 85:18 90:11 133:16 92:18 100:17 109:21 110:21 122:22 132:22 133:14 135:4 138:8 139:9 139:21 143:15 149:25 153:7 155:24 156:5 158:7 observation [i] 56:8 observations [i] 61.20 observe [4] 41:5 55:17 56:18 59:21 163:23 172:22 173:3 observed [9] 42:1,13 176:11,17 181:18 55:12,25 57:25 59:13 60:8 number^] 68:7 78:10 71:21.23 .84:17 134:2 146:9 obviously [7] 29:25 30:8 numbered [i] 1:14 109:2 117:11 149:3 numbers [i] 149:6 150:11 157:25 numerous [3] 114:4 149:11,13 occasion [4] 39:10 62:15 94:20 168:4 nutshell [l] 11:18 occasions [7] 35:17 84:17 94:7 114:4 149:11 Nystrom[22] 16:8,15,20 149:13,15 ' 18:24 20:2,14,19,20 21:18 21:19,25 22:7,19 24:24 occupational [2] 44:2 . . 15:6 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 Index Page 8 Gonzales Group Multi-PageTM occurred - pretty Taken on September 23, 1997 JOHN E. HODGES occurred [ij 186:14 original [i] 188:2 Paris (2] 2:25 7:7 65:11 66:3 80:12 106:11 167:22 occurrence [ii 1634 originally [2] 77:17 Park [2] 68:13,14 106:12 130:24 180:5 policies [l] 48:10 October [ii] 79:15 82:8 185:4 82:19 83:4.11 84:10 93:8 OSHA [33] 16:21,23 143:7 146:12 147:7 17:15.15,20 18:23 20:15 part [25] 11:5,7 13:13 16:21 23:20 25:10 45:11 48:14 50:18 93:7,10 94:1 personal [8] 18:22 32.25 policy [8] 20:21 44:13 70:21 128:6.6 129:5 44:20 48:7 91:20 144:21 144:15 147:2 161:4,12 151:16 off [17] 11:25 12:3 51:22 84:5 105:5.18 112:1 124:11.14 151:2.5 153:13 154:11 176:1.22 177:3 183:15 offering [ij 4:10 office [19] 34:1 73:23 77:4 78:8 107:3 119:15 120:3 140:5.10.12.18.21 149:20 179:10,10.16.16 186:19 189:2 officer [ii 187.22 22:18 23:12 24:9,9.21 25:2.11 30:8 33:13 48:7 119:11.15 138:23 140:4,9 146:20 147:12 156:9,15 156:20 157:1,3 177:14 178:6,19.24 otherwise[3] 63:4.21 159:20 outlines [ij 107:2 outside^] 19:6 126:5 overall [3] 92:2 138:21 172:7 overboard [i) 63:15 100:4 102:6 109:25 118:5 120:15 142:3 157:11 162:2 172:6 173:2 176:14 180:9 188:5 partially [ij 52:25 particular [37] 6:4 8 23 12:12 25:19 64:13 71:20 84:11.17 90:24 94:4 103:23 110:8,13 125:17 125:22 126:3 128:14.15 130:2 140:20 147:21 151:24 164:10,11.16.17 164:19.20,24 165:1,4.5,7 165:25 173:4,4 179:21 personally [5] 55:12 population [l] 160:15 85:24 86:14 98:16 170:19 portion [ioj 15:8 18:13 personnel [is] 15:6 46:5 55:4 63:23 67:5 55:14 70:2,6 113:24 118:4 93:13 138:2 154:15 155:9 118:5 119:22 125:20.21 131:15.16 167:6.7 174:4 position[34] 8:22 9:25 16:5.24 19:23 20:4,14 persons [2] 121:11 131.2 21:8.20.22.22 31:3,8.8 pertain [i] 117:13 43:8 72:21 79:13 81:11 pertained[3] 76:12 81:9 108:23 pertaining [2] 20:15 94:9 Pete [l] 73:16 81:16 87:23 93:1 95:25 115:1.3 116:18 117:2 118:3.23 164:9.15.23 165:3.10.24 possession [ij 132:5 officers [ii 119:22 overbroad [si] 18:1,8 particularly [l] 111:21 officeS[4] 1:18 2:3 188:4 188:8 Official [2] 31:8 91:20 Old [4] 8:13 16:15 37:7 79:20 19:13 21:16 23:5 25:16 26:18 34:17,25 44:18 45:7 45:24 46:16 47:10 54:24 55:21 57:2 59:9 65:24 parties [io] 4:4,6,15,17 4:19 5:2 187:18,25 188:6 189:1 69:5 70:19 74:9 96:17,25 parts [l] 21:21 100:14,24 102:8,19 Pasadena [2] 68:6 71:7 older [31 16:17 79:24 85:11 104:22 113:18 118:11 123:3 125:7 127:12 pass [4] 163:17 166:15 180:23 182:4 once [2] 115:13 144:10 one [34] 4:16 8:6 9:17 28:23 29:17 31:6 36:5 49:25 50:1 53:19 58:7 71:4,6 73:17 83:12 84:17 128:24 129:11 135:9,15 140:24 141:17 142:4 156:24 161:8 171:21 172:18 173:19 174:11 175:7.22 180:10 181:21 passed [5] 83:7,9 168:18 172:24 181:12 passing^] 130:11 past [2] 85:20 167:12 Peterson [i] 177:20 phone [i] 106:8 phonetic [3] 13:1 142 21 155:15 phrased [3] 26:18 55:22 128:17 physical^] 125:15 possibility [2] 45:3 73:3 possible [4] 23:2 29:2 75:12 157:10 Possibly [l] 29:9 potential [i3] 46:14 47:22 61:22 62:21 64:25 65:14 66:9 86:19 89:7,12 91:13 121:19 175:19 picked [i] 29:5 potentially [8] 22:20 picture [i] 172:7 45:21 61:2 64:22 105:6 pipe [13] 37:20,21.22 38:4 120:12 151:25 152:1 54:4,16,19 65:19 66:10 pouring [ij 41:13 66:18 92:5 95:21 153:22 power[2] 147:19 150:10 84:18,19 89:8 90:7 94:13 131:14,21 137:16.22 142:7,9 150:21,23.24 159:10 162:14 171:14 175:24 ones [31 70:4 77:21 181:8 ongoing [4] 41:10 69:20 72:1 114:18 operating [l] 89:22 operation [5] 50:13 60:8 70:10 172:16,21 operations [24] 15:19 15:23 45:20 68:6 69:20 71:7,20,23.24 103:3,14 119:23 145:3 146:19 152:12,12,14,18,19,19,22 153:5 154:21,25 opinion [6] 97:11 98:22 99:24 105:3 159:14 160:24 opportunity [4] 56:17 105:23 106:3 151:19 opposed [4] 42:15 78:13 78:14 90:7 option [i] 117:9 ORAL [i] 1:12 oranges [i] 137:8 orders ni:i 112:14 117:7 145:4 177:13 178:5 oyerlybroad [i] 99:2 paving [2] 37:20 67:21 overseas [i] 11:16 Paying [l] 17:10 Owens-Coming [3] 1:4 PEL [2] 22:11.25 7:1 187:5 people [27] 12:11 16:3 own [ii] 18:22 46:13,21 17:21 25:1 29:16 34:12 48:6.6.7 67:11 70:16 46:9 47:8,22 81:5 89:12 148:14 167:23 169:24 90:21 93:10 104:5 110:16 owned [2] 37:23,24 owner [4] 70:17 88:25 89:21 147:21 110:18 116:18 119:23 122:12 156:1 159:11 160:6,12 173:1 175:18 180:23 181:13 -P- per[2] 4:3 122:19 percent [3] 159:5,8,17 P [5] 1:2 2:1,1 6:25 187:3 perform [i] 11:16 P. C [2] 186:23 187:20 performed [5] 72:2,18 p.m[i9] 1:16 6:23 12:2,8 176:14 177:9 178:18 84:4,8 105:17,20 111:25 117:19 124:13,16 151:7 153:12,14 177:2,5 183:14 183:17 pace[l] 35:23 package [l] 107:23 performing p] 69:15 74:1 perhaps [2] 179:14 180:21 period [16] 6:9,13 39:2 40:21 42:25 43:13,17 packet [i] 176:19 45:15 67:23 96:2 106:15 page [ii] 3:5,6,7,8,9,10 3:12,13,14 134:12 185:7 123:25 124:19 141:2 148:10 173:20 pamphlets [l] 111:17 periods [4] 55:1 129:13 paperps] 10:12 23:15 138:25 149:11 23:22 38:21 39:4 58:5,6 permissibility [i] 58:10 61:11,15 68:10 85:5 22:12 pipes [1] 61:17 piping [3] 38:18 53:23 61:17 Pittsburgh-Coming [4] 2:21 12:6 165:23 188:24 place [37] 17:18,20 22:12 25:7 50:24 51:3,16.19 53:3 54:16,19 56:20,24 91:2,8,21 96:1.2 121:1.19 123:18 124:22.24 126:18 127:9 135:20 136:23 138:15 139:10 142:24 148:14 150:14 167:8 172:15 182:2.24 183:10 placed [l] 62:20 places [S] 11:9 69:21 71:4 121:9 174:5 plaintiff [4] 7:12 165:1 165:14 166:2 plaintiffs [6] 1:2,14 2:5 114:14 187:3 188:10 plant [18] 6:8 23:25 24:3 38:21 52:5 54:3,9,10,12 61:19 92:15.19 108:1 113:25 128:16 129:15 147:19 177:12 plants [3] 61:23 62:2 137:21 playpj 21:5 practices [2] 41:6 134:3 precautions [12] 58:19 59:1,23 60:15 63:6,11 64:3 65:12,20 67:12,16 174:8 precisely [2] 113:12 116:6 predicate [5] 99:25 102:7 159:15 160:23 179:18 premise [l] 88:25 premises [4] 70:16 89:21 90:1 147:20 preparation [3] 94:1,12 187:15 prepare [i] 143:9 preparing [i] 133:12 presence [i] 91:12 present[7] 2:24 4:13,18 8:7 84:10 93:8 187:18 presented [3] 55:24 86:19 87:14 presently [ij 8:16. presents [i] 182:13 president [4] 12:22 117:23 131:16 150:3 pressure [2] 56:2,14 presumably [3] 101:12 orders p] 17:11 19:2 88:5,25 92:23 organizational [ij 69:18 paragraph^] 156:6 157:8 161:18 162:12 organizations [i] 32:24 Pardon [i] 164:13 permissible [2] 22:14 122:18 permitted [i] 161:5 person [13] 4:13 11:22 11:23 12:11,11 49:24 Plaza [2] 2:14 188:17 plywood [l] 10:13 point [6] 38:8 114:5 116:10 133:11 149:18 104:17 178:19 presume [2] 140:13 183:9 pretty [l] 79:22 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 Index Page 9 Gonzales Group Taken on September 23, 1997 Multi-PageTM previous - resource JOHN E. HODGES previous [4] 108:14 protection [i] 127:19 108:13 114:9,19 120:7 138:24 139:3,3 140:3.8 180:15 117:2 130:11 151:23 protective [3] 56:19,24 previously [9] 8:5 9:5 127:19 25:7 107:12 112:11,19 116:5.25 122:23 provide [4] 11:23 32:20 126:15 142:15 primarily [2] 80:9 82:17 provided [9] 20:22 principle [3J 46:25 60:21 105:13 112:7 126:20.21 122:20 129:23 131:25 133:19 135:2 136:15 138:8 143:10 154:16 155:7,10 156:11 158:15 159:6 163:3 177:24 184:4 realize [l] 148:24 140:13.16,22 141:6.9 143:23,24 144:1,10,11.11 144:12,17,18,22 145:1 148:11 rectum [2] 160:1 163:11 redepose [i] 117:4 removal ps] 51:2 57:10 57:15 58:1 59:13 61:12 86:25 87:3 129:21 130:5 152:13 153:2 171:12.17 172:14 177:11.21.23 182:19 171:15 148:25 149:1.10 181:17 really [7] 6:8 30:4 40:18 Redmond [3] 1225 remove [2] 24:11 56:13 Prop) 187:16 providing [2] 32:8 119:1 65:7 132:4.8 172:9 13:11,18 removed[4] 58:13 84:23 problems 13:21 66:8 provision [2j 126:7,17 89:7 132:3 134:24 174:22 provisions [i] 21:12 179:13.25 Public [3] 4:21 184:20 procedure^) 1.21 45.19 185:23 54:21 59:22 89:17.22 publication [i| 34 8 procedures [7] 44 25 45:3 46:9 47:4 48:4.7.11 pulmonary [i] 130:10 proceed pi 12 7 pulpp] 10:12 proceedings [2] 61 purporting (l) 104:8 186:17 purports [I] 145:12 process [IS) 16:21 22:4 purpose [5] 31:22 39:22 22:6 24:3 52:14 55:18 61:1 63:3 109:1 56:8 57:10 59:6 85:8 pursuant [4] 1:22 6:20 97:14 98:25 100:4 133:23 186:12 188:5 172:10 pursue [21 171:24,24 reason [12] 9:16 19:8 reduce [3] 31:23 59:1 59:11 64:24 66:9.20 83:22 61:2 97:21 144:3 149:7 171:22 187:23 reduced [i] 56:10 reasonable [l] 11013 reducing [i] 44:5 reasonably [4] 54 25 reduction pi 22: li 113:16 129:12 173:20 refer [i] 80:20 reasons [3] 171:15 172:3 reference [3] 4:25 144:1 188:2 144:19 rebuild p] 50:12 referral [l] 132:10 rebuilt [i] 50:24 referring [2j 137:10 receive [3] 43:23 44:9,12 170:18 received [4] 33:23 refining [l] 50:13 141:13 150:1 181:11 refusal [i] 187:23 receiving [4] 76:21 regarding [3] 6:15 87:11 88:14 removing^] 52:14 56 1 56:2 85:14 86:21 88:20 repair [4] 10:25 24:6 42:15 72:2 repeat[3] 9:19 26:21 155:6 repetitious [6] 92:1 96:24 98:20 124:6 175:21 181:5 rephrase [2] 9.18 145.25 replaced [2J 40:22 77:12 report [2] 140:17,19 reported [2] 150:2 162:15 processing pi 17:10 put[l8] 15:12 21:22 49:18 140:21 141:8 163:13 139:14 170:8 reporter [9] 1:17 7:20 produce!*) 106:5 109:5 53:23 54:8,13 57:9 67:6 recently [2] 38:23 93:24 regards [3] 169:19 170:7 18:15 46:7 63:25 154:17 110:23 112:24 116:9.19 70:22 75:9 123:22 127:9 recess [7] 84:6 105:19 170:10 155:11 186:5 187:12 117:5 130:11 produced [21] 1:13 6:20 107:11.12 108:16,18 110:5,17 111:9,12 112:5 112:12,19 113:22 114:3 115:14 116:5 117:5 123:25 157:18 165:23 produces pi 56.15 product [5] 164:10,24 165:4,11,22 134:18 137:24 149:2 156:15 157:23 167:7 putting [3] 23:11 58:10 73:5 -Q- quantities pi 137:23 quarter^] 159:10,10 questioned pi 117:15 112:2 124:15 151:6 154:12 177:4 reclassified pi 43:6 recognize [3] 162:23 171:16 178:22 recognized [7j 15:21 31:20,21 46:13 138:13 172:13 174:20 recognizes pi 171:16 regular [l] 69:2 regulated [4] 26:2,4,6 174:16 regulations [S6] 15:10 15:11,22 16:4,21,24,25 17:15,18 18:5,23 19:10 19:21 20:5,15 21:5,8,13 21:21 22:11,18 23.12 24:10,22 25:2,7 30:2,3,17 30:21 31:1,9,18,22,22 Reporter's p) 3:14 reporting [4] 7:8 13:17 186:23 187:20 reports [1] 107:24 represent p] 143:25 154:20 represented [2] 108.20 153:3 reproduced [i] 109:1 production [4] 108:4 110:14 114:12 115:23 products [IS] 10:6.7,11 10:15,18 11:6,20 82:18 105:3,4.6 158:13 164:20 165:17 182:20 professional pi) 46:19 questionsp6] 6:15 9:14 9:17 30:15 96:18 99:11 117:11 151:10 153:17 163:23 164:8 170:24 182:6 183:2,13 186:7 quick [i] 96:7 quote [3] 133:16,18 recollection [25] 31:2.6 31:15 32:18 42:17 44:23 46:24 62:19 70:5 75:15 75:19 81:8 83:16 86:8 118:1 119:12 120:9,19 130:14 133.22 140:6 141:7,12 156:14 181:19 recollections [l] 41:8 48:8,12,15 56:25 57:17 62:19 70:16 103:25 104:2 104:18 118:9,22,24 119:3 119:11 125:6 128:22 156:22 175:2 178:24 183:10 regulatory p] 48:16 119:6 141:23 Republic [i] 11:13 request [6] 108:3 109:15 110:8 113:12 114:12 126:11 requested [9] 18:13 46:5 63:23 112:6 126:14.19 137:23 154:15 155:9 59:25 60:5 90:19 98:18 100:10,10 103:20 104:16 130:24 178:16 professionals [i] 60:23 programp] 25:10 project[i2] 18:24 19:1 53:22,24,25 54:2 58:9 125:12 126:22 139:18 167:20 169:6 143:14 -R- R [12] 2:1,13.21 4:1 12:5 165:11 171:6 183:6 185:1 185:1 188:16,24 R-a-u-h-u-t pi 118:14 R-h-O-d-i-a [l] 49:22 recommend [i] 130.8 recommendation pj 130:23 recommended p] 130:22 reconstruct [i] 114:6 record [42] 6:22 7:10 8:1 12:1,3,9 18:14 46:6 63:24 relate [3] 9:7 104:8,11 related [8] 28:14 40:15 80:19 107:2 144:10 148:7 152:25 180:20 relates [l] 131:8 relating [i] 45:9 relative [8] 108:1 113:23 114:2 129:14 137:8 168:5 requests [2j 113:8.21 require [4] 25:3 57:17 66:1 67:1 required[i3] 22:19 62:19 101:4 129:20 130:10 137:23 140:3,9 156:1 178:19,24 183:11 187:1 requirement [ii] 22:24 62:23 63:1,3 70:14 125:15 projects [8] 69:8 75:15 125:12 153:2 169:3,8,14 169:21 promulgated [l] 30.10 proper[7] 54:20 63:6 102:10 103:6 113:6 115:23 180:11 properly pi 187:21 proposed [2J 15:9 21:13 propounded [i] 186:7 protect [6) 46:9,13 47:7 102:2,25 134:9 raised [2] 40:17 75:11 Ratapj 187:16 rates [2] 159:25 160:7 rather [2] 152:10 172:3 Rauhutp] 118:14,15 rays [11 130:10 Re-Examination [2j 3:8.10 react [i] 47.15 read [29] 5:8 18:11,14 46:4,6 63:21,24 106:6 84:5,8 105:18,21 111:4 169:21 180:11 112:1 113:1 114:23 116:23 117:20 124:12,14 124:17 131:23 132:15 148:23 151:3,5,8 153:13 153:15 154:11,14,16 relevant pj 54:25 55:2 116:12.20 129:12 relief [2] 39:24 42:10 relieving [i] 39:25 155:10 176:22 177:3,6 relying [i] 91:11 183:15 184:6 187:13 remainder [i] 146:11 188:6,6 remained [i] 53:3 recordkeeping [5] 127:2 129:19 130:2 140:2 148:7 remember [i4] 22:13 29:22 33:5 34:7 39:15 42:4 44:20 73:22,23,24 records [24] 75:20 124:23 156:3 169:17 170:13 128:23 133:22 134:13 155:25 156:17 requirements [13] 4:24 19:19 23:1 48:16 74:6.22 104:1 127:17 130:2 138:23 148:7 174:9 186:12 research [2] 68:17,18 reservation pi 101.2 reserve [2j 170:23 171 :l resolve [2] no-.20,20 resource pi 11:24 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 Index Page 10 Gonzales Group Taken on September 23, 1997 Multi-PageTM respect - Sixties JOHN E. HODGES respect [23] 6:4.9 25:4 right[135] 6:16 8:13.25 129:9 130:15 133:24 sample [4] 53:2 90:1 seven [i] 50:21 31:1 44:13 73:8 74:11 75:12 95:20 99:11 108:2 124:18 125:17 126:25 127:23 128:3 133:15 138:14 153:17 154:23 172:12 174:9 180:4 respective [2] 4:5.17 respirators [i] 126:8 respiratory [i] 127:19 respond [i] 1162 response [2] 42:23 186:6 responsibilities [i4] 11:16.19 13:17 14:23 15:2 17:1.13 36:17 37:18 40:21 78:3 80:4.19 118:1 responsibility [io] 13:3 20:3 44:10 46:13.25 78:24 79:6 80:10 141:5 150:5 9:4 11:14 12:15 14:20 134:24 135:6.25 136:6 113:23 153:5 15:1,11 17:17 20:25 21:11 24:17 25:13.23 27:10 30:11.13,23.23 31:19 32:1 32:7.15,17 33:7,16 34:7 36:19 37:7 41:18 42:7 50:7 53:1 56:7,12,17 57:24 61:13 64:10 66:12 68:21 69:13 70:12 71:8 71:10.25 72:19 73:19 74:15 77:23 78:9 80:13 81:3,13 83:3,10,23 85:23 87:21 88:15,24 89:5 90:18 138:13.15 140:7 141:22 samples [S] 122:17 142:14 143:6 144:4 145:3 133:17 134:18 140:9,17 145:6 146:4,11.18 147:21 149:2 150:22 151:15 sampling [32] 54:21 152:2.7 156:9,16.21 157:9 75:20 93:15,19,21 94:16 157:18.23 158:7.20 94:25 95:16.20 107:24 160:10 161:4.11 162:3 113:24 122:24.25 123:9 163:14 166:21 167:5.11 123:17.24 124:3.21,23 167:13 168:6,14 169:4.8 171:10.16 172:2.13 174:4 133:23 134:13 139:3 140:22 141:24 142:15 175:1.18 176:3 178:3,16 146:4,12 147:7 152:11 188:15 154:1,3 183:11 92:22 93:23 97:4 100:17 Root's [16] 21:7 31:3,8 106:12,21 115:11 118:6 44:10.13 48:10 78:14 119:24 120.2 121:10.17 92:14 94:10 117:1 119:1 126:25 127:7 129:5 151:19 156:20 166:25 131:18 132:12,20.25 167:18 173:13 133:3.9,9,14 134:2 136:24 137:25 138:4 139:6 Rule [2] 4:3 110:10 San[i] 186:23 sanctions [l] 115:21 saw[i] 139:25 says [5] 136:15 146:2 156:7 163:2 178:5 scarring [l] 97:7 Seventies [7] 6:13 38:13 62:10 96:3 158:4 163:8 182:1 several [2] 71:21 149:14 shall [4] 4:17 140:4,18,19 Shamrock [2] 68:16 70:11 shape [l] 123:11 sheet [i] 188:1 Sheldon [7j 23:16,17,18 58:8 61:11,15 70:11 Shell [7] 68:11,12,12,14 68:16,17 70:9 shop [2] 145:7 146:2 short [3] 6:12 84:2 131:20 Shorthand [3] 1:17 186:4 187:12 responsible [i3] 32:8 42:9 70:15 80:9.23 82:17 122:9 125:4,18,24 127:1 140:20 141:1 responsive [l] 107:13 responsiveness [i] 4:9 restate [i] 23:6 140:15 141:2 142:18 rules [13] 1:21 4:24 45:12 scent [i] 50:14 144:18,25 145:6 146:7,14 45:14.19 47:1,5 48:1,3,6 147:6 149:21 150:6,17 74:21 174:21 186:13 151:1.18,22 152:1,9 153:7 run [2] 51:13 132:6 schedule [i] 32:22 science [i] 28:12 153:16 155:13 158:10.22 Ruptured [l] 40:11 159:1,18.22 160:20 161:3 SEAL [2] 186:19 189:2 second [] 67:7 134:11 161:16,16,17 162:14,25 163:16,23 170:25 172:1,9 -S- 150:17 154:9 156:6 161:18 Show [7] 119:14 129:17 139:17 142:15 144:13 155:14 157:17 showedp] 176:18 shown [3] 94:11 150:21 189:1 shows [l] 146:9 restricted [6] 30:20 54:25 57:3 113:16 129:12 173:20 result [5] 40:12 104:18 112:14 120:17 162:19 173:12 174:1 176:10 178:15 179:23 181:14 rip[*j 55:12 56:18 59:14 59:21 154:3.24 171:16 172:14 resulted [l] 44:15 rip-out [i] 56:23 resulting [2] 31:23 159:9 ripping [l] 59:6 results [7] 93:15,19 risk [7] 159:10,20 160:14 122:24,25 124:3 143:6 160:19 161:22,24 162:5 154:2 risks [l] 160:13 retained [4] 138:25 139:4 roll [2] 160:11 170:4 140:19 187:24 room[2] 126:17.21 S [2] 2:1 4:1 section [2] 160:10 177:13 shut [2] 60:19 88:1 safe [1] 23:2 see [23] 6:7 9:22 66:2,23 siding [3] 24:11,14 58:14 safety[i90] 6:10 8:19 119:17,18 132:16 133:3 sign [2] 187:19,23 9:11,22 10:2.3,17 11:5,6 11:20,22,23 12:11,13 13:2 14:10,14,23 15:3,5,6 17:6 17:8,10 19:25 20:8 24:25 134:14,19 143:7 145:3,7 147:9.12 150:12 157:11 160:15 161:17 162:11 173:9 176:17 181:25 25:1,10 28:15,17 32:10 seeing [2] 94:20 153:6 32:23 33:17,18,24 34:8 seek [3] 63:10 64:24 34:12,13,23 35:4,14 36:14 167:14 37:10.19 40:2,3,4,4,24 41:1 42:10 43:2,11,14,18 select [l] 121:9 43:19.24 44:25 45:2,11 Sellers [5] 80:16,21 signature [3] 3:12 4:25 187:1,17,17 signed [3] 4:21 5:4.8 significance [l] 152:3 significant [is] 15:22 20:3 55:18 59:1 61:16,18 74:18 101:9 116:12 117:13 131:3 159:9,12,17 174:8 retention [2] 138:23 148:10 Root [198] 2:11 6:19 7:16 45:14,18 46:8,19,21 47:1 93:21 95:6,17 8:17 9:11 10:8,10,23 48:1.10 49:2,4,9,18,23 seminar [i] 107:5 significantly [2] 56:10 79:24 return [3] 4:25 187.19.20 returned [4] 4:22 187:21 187:22,24 review [9] 15:13 16:23 22:18 93:24 94:3.15 106:4 109:23 168:4 reviewed[S] 33:25 93:20 128:4 155:23 158:4 reviewing [9] 15:6,9,17 16:3.21 75:19 94:20 140:21 141:5 revisitp] 132:19 Rhodia[4] 49:21 61:5 135:22.23 Richardson [28] 76:3,6 76:12,18,22 80:15.21 142:17 143:3,15 145:1,20 146:15 148:5,21 151:11 153:17 155:14 156:6 157:8 168:10 176:2.11 177:7,19 178:1 179:7,13 Richardson's [2] 145:15 177:17 ridiculous [l] iil:l 11:14 14:1 15:5,9,17,21 16:3,4,11.24 18:4 19:2,6 19:9,18 20:13,14 21:13 21:14,19 23:11,12 24:2 26:24 27:4,12,15 29:11 30:19 32:3,8 33:18 34:13 34:22 35:3 36:8,19 37:22 37:24 39:3 40:3,'6 41:6 42:8 44:15,23 45:2,6,19 45:22 46:11,12 47:14,20 47:23 48:5,11,17 49:23 50:3,23 51:15 52:8 53:18 53:25 54:1 55:14 58:1 60:9 61:13 67:2,6,22 69:1 69:14 70:14 72:3,18 73:18 73:20 74:1,5,17,21 75:24 76:1 77:14 79:7 81:22 82:9 85:6,18,21 87:13 88:17 89:11,18,24,25 91:11,19 94:13 95:10 98:1 99:9 100:11,20 105:12,13 106:13 107:6,25 108:23 52:5 59:24 60:5,23 68:5 69:20 70:1,16 71:5,12 73:12,23 74:6,22 77:5,9 77:13.13,16,16,17,21,22 78:4,6,10,18,21,25 79:14 79:18 80:7,10 81:2,3,23 81:23 82:7,10,16 84:10 87:23 89:8,10 93:1,5,6 95:13 99:9 100:10,11,19 101:13 103:20 104:1,4,16 107:3 114:2 117:14 118:2 118:4 119:10,15,21,25 120:11.24 121:14,15,20 122:8 125:5,9,9,11,11,13 126:5,10,14,20,24 127:6 128:20 130:24 133:1 138:13 139:19,21 140:5 140:18 143:2 148:6 150:9 157:24 168:5,14 169:5,9 169:13,20,23 170:1 172:3 172:6,8,12 173:1 178:15 179:9,10,16,16 180:15,23 109:23 110:3 111:20 Samon[7] 142:20,22 112:4,8.12 114:1,14 116:5 148:5 150:1,5 151:11 117:24 118:8 119:6,15 176:3 120:10 121:18,20 122:5 Samon'sp] 150:14 122:12 127:10 128:8 seminars [S] 32:2,9,20 32:23 33:2 senior[2] 49:23 143:1 seniormost [l] 82:8 sense [3] 9:17 71:11 81:20 Sent [4] 39:23 140:18 180:22 181:9 sentence [i] 157:11 separate [4] 13:15 94:7 94:20 160:3 September^ 1:15 7:3 43:20 49:17 51:20 155:17 186:20 187:9 series [2] 9:14 119:9 serious [i] 50:20 served [2] 113:9 189:1 service [2] 91:2,7 services [6] 7:9 13:17 131:15,17 186:23 187:20 set[5] 1:22 110:12 132:3 171:25 180:10 settled [2] 109:17,19 signs [6] 47:17 62:20 127:2 129:19 130:2 134:18 similar [3] 36:16,17 163:6 simply [i] 123:22 sit [7] 31:741:9,18,24 71:19 100:19 130:13 site [26] 39:11,11 40:4,24 47:8 49:18,20,24 52:6,13 70:2 81:5 122:11 125:17 126:1 127:1 140:19 152:20 164:11,17,21 165:25 173:5,14 179:9,15 sites [21] 12:12 41:10 68:7 70:15 78:7,7 79:7 80:5,18 81:21 120:16 140:7 141:24 156:10 169:6,24 173:1 174:5 175:1,17 180:22 sitting^] 181:18 situation^] 44:24 47:15 64:20 69:19 85:23 Sixties [l] 37:4 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P C. 1-800-780-2555 Index Page 11 Gonzales Group Taken on September 23, 1997 Multi-PageTM size - too JOHN E, HODGES size[ii 137:21 speculative [52] 15:25 Steps [2] 47:6,20 43:11,15,19 49:19 52:5 90:11 167:7 slower [2] 52:20.23 18:7 19:13 20:18 21:16 Steve [2] 80:16 93:21 68:5 69:19 71:5 89:6,8,10 testified [2] 7:20 56:13 small [2] 55:4 99:22 29:1.8,20 31:11 34:4.16 34:25 44:18 45:8.23 47:11 Stick [2] 30:4 93:3 121:16,21 122:9 125:21 126:2,11 127:4 139:22 testify [2] 94:1 186:10 Smoke [4] 41:16 160:13 161:6.23 smoker [2] 160:18.19 smokers [2] 160:14 162:4 smoking [8] 101:7.8.9 101:15 159:21 160:12 161:4.13 someone [3] 90:10 98:1 177:10 sometime^] 37:4 51:18 83:3.4 181:25 182:1 52:18 53:6 55:22 57:4 60:2.11 63:15,17 65:24 66:22 74:25 75:2 91:16 91:25 95:4 96:5 101:23 105:9 122:1 125:1 127:13 130:17 131:7 136:10 137:5 138:18 140:25 143:19 144:8 171:20 172:19 174:12 175:6 178:9 179:2.18 spell [l] 20:9 spend [5] 27:22 38:14 41:3 71:2 93:5 Still [15] 14:19,22 16:11 17:5 20:11 24:18 36:19 40:6 43:15 66:24 81:12 81:13 106:25 161:23 162:4 stipulations [i] 1:22 stomach [2] 160:1 163:11 stonewalling [l] 111.2 Stop [5] 9:18 101:15 153:10 154:9 179:25 Stopped [2] 60:10 88:16 supervisors [ii] 118:8 121:14 125:12,13 126:13 126:19 139:19 169:5 173:1 175:2 180:23 supervisory [4] 82:9 173:13 174:4 175:18 supplied [2] 126:10,23 Support [2] 78:6,6 supposed [6] 106:4 109:18 118:8 134:8,18 181:12 surrounding [6] 55:23 testifying [3] 4:13 137:9 164:7 testimony [is] 6:8 15:7 48:22 76:10 98:6 123:5 123:15 124:6 136:13 153:20 154:1 171:10 173:8 181:7 184:6 185:4 187:13 188:6 testing [5] 60:15.21 62:6 91:22 94:8 Texas [29] 1:3.17.19.20 1:21 2:4,8,9,14,19 23:16 27:14 49:21 79:7 147:18 somewhere [lj 77:20 . spraying [2] 129:21 straight [i] 63:22 74:12 98:24 100:2 128:13 147:24 174:5 184:1 sorry [16] 8:10 26:21 130:5 Street [4] 1:19 2:9 36:22 131:9 185:19 186:1,5.24 187:4 36:23 38:3 45:25 59:16 68:12 77:15 83:4 85:2 112:9 122:6.11 124:8 176:21.23 Sort[i3] 17:11 28:18 41:17 50:13.15 57:3 87:7 spring [6] 15:4 38:25 39:20,21 40:22 43:4 stack [i] 4i:i6 Staff [l] 75:23 stamped [i] 144:23 188:13 Strike [3] 17:18 44:10 148:18 structure [i] 13:10 structures pi 73:1 surveillance [l] 156:8 SWOm [5] 7:20 184:14 185:20 186:9 187:14 system [l] 159:25 systems [i] 38:18 188:5,9,12,13,18.22 text[i] 98:8 textiles [i] 158:14 Thank [2] 8:9 166:14 themselves [3] 31:2 64:4 88:9 89:21 91:20 153:23 Stanp] 118:14 student [i] 28:4 89:25 157:19,22 stand[2] 4:14 113:20 studies [l] 152:17 -T- thereafter [i] 4:22 Sought [2] 110:14 152:7 standard [8] 89:21 sound [2] 152:17 163:6 102:10,20 103:6 104:25 study [2] 28:10 154:21 styled [i] 1:14 T [7] 4:1 7:22 164:2 166:17 171:6 182:8 183:6 therefore [2] 128:16 188:2 sounded [l] 46:1 152:14 177:14 178:6 subbing [l] 167:22 takes [2] 99:12 183:10 thereof [2] 5:6 188:3 sounds [l] 109:16 standards [2] 30:9,22 subcontractor [3] 165:8 taking [io] 20:4 55:4 thereto [2] 4:4 187:15 South[4] 2:4 11:11 188:4 standpoint [3] 46:18 165:13 166:1 121:1,19 124:22 133:16 thermal [8] 53:11 55:13 188:8 110:21 128:21 subcontractors [ij 134:17 148:13 153:5 56:18 101:19 129:7 135:5 Southern [3] 27:14.19 stands [i] 84:18 120:4 186:18 135:24 153:22 28:11 Start [10] 13:25 22:5 37:3 Subject[9] 32:18 107:10 talks [5] 133:3 134:12 they've [ij 171:15 Southland [ioj 23.15,22 55:15 62:9 64:20 68:3 107:10 117:15 140:2 136:3 163:2 178:23 thinking [2] 38:12 38:21 58:5 61:11,15,21 125:8 133:16 141:23 142:13 143:4 155:18 tapem 154:9 170:11 62:11 68:10 70:11 Started [5] 19:24 25:25 177:16 task[i] 114:8 Thompson [3] 36:12,13 Southwest [l] 38:3 62:6 133:23 175:25 subjects [i] 49:5 taught [i] 163:7 37:3 Southwestern [3] 37:20 starting [2] 78:1,4 37:21 38:5 startup [i] 51:14 submitted [2] 187:17,18 Taxable [4] 188:10,15 subpoena [2] 107:7 188:20,25 thought [3] 86:7,24 132:14 speak [3] 49:1,4 151:19 State [27] 1:17,20 7:25 speaking [5] 24:24 29:15 19:20 35:3 48:16 79:7 29:22 64:8.19 98:9,14 103:6 114:25 112:6 SUBSCRIBED m 184:14 185:20 teampj 40:3 tear [17] 50:11 55:13 56:13,18 59:13.22 153:23 thousands [ij 113:19 three [2] 35:19 71:14 threshold [i] 17:20 special [2] 75:15 126:8 116:22 122:16 130:8 substance [4] 26:3 57:13 154:3,23 171:17 172:14 through [9] 4:4,7,20 5:3 specializes [l] 167:25 138:5 143:12 145:12 147:14 148:23 159:19 96:9 103:24 substances [8] 44:2,6 176:12 177:8 178:3,17 182:12 183:10 21:19 33:14,15 57:11 125:10 specially [21 167:6,7 177:19 184:1,21 185:19 specific[3] 17:1,14 25:9 185:23 186:1,5 - 30:5 32:6,17 33:5 41:8,10 45:9 47:4 48:1,3,15 81:8 82:15 83:16.22 92:24 100:14 103:25 108:2 statement [i2] 20:21 46:1 72:6 93:4 95:19 130:1 137:14,15 146:15 157:19 171:12 175:10 44:14 102:3,16 103:2,15 104:20 substitute [5] 134:25 136:4,7,17 142:8 substituted [l] 147:15 tear-out [ij 56:23 tearing [i] 60:14 tecum [2] 107:8 112:6 telephone [2] 2:18 188:21 throughout p] 11:15 33:25 114:18 tie [l] 24:12 tied [2] 45:8 116:21 times [8] 55:25 69:24 121:6 129:13.14 138:23 139:8,9 161:12 170:13,13 170:14,14,17 181:19,19 specifically [ii] 29:23 30:16 36:3 54:5 67:2 76:16 108:25 119:13 126:13 140:16 170:17 specifics [2] 97:5 98:23 specified [2] 54:7 167:4 speculate [3] 34:18 82:5 141:18 speculation [5] 41:22 64:16 66:14 165:16 168:21 states [10] 11:15 98:1 120:2 129:18 130:21 133:15 140:3,16 143:4 159:24 status [l] 27:25 Statutes [l] 4:24 Staufferm 68:10 stay [j] 22:3,4,6 Steam[3] 38:17 61:16,17 steel [9] 39:19 41:15 91:1 108:1 113:25 121:12,12 121:16 128:16 steer [i] 167:21 substitutes [i] 135:5 such [10] 21:1 44:2 56:9 59:6 90:20 101:18 124:23 140:8 146:5 169:14 suggesting [ij 116:14 Suite [5] 2:4 7:6 186:23 188:4,8 summer [ij 146:19 superior p] 12:16,18 77:24 superiors [l] 149:25 supervising [i] 173:16 supervisor [2i] 40:5,25 telling [5] 62:16 114:16 121:17 180:19 181:25 tells [l] 160:17 temporarily [i] 27:16 ten [2] 162:16,18 termp] 77:16 terms [10] 13:19 93:4 98:21 133:12 148:14 166:25 168:6 169:9 170:11 181:16 test [7] 86:17 88:2 89:1 89:21 90:10 130:10 170:2 tested [5] 53:9 86:7,20 70:9,10 71:12 145:2 160:14 170:14 title[ll] 8:21,23 10:1 14:8,18 19:23 34:10 36:16 43:10 82:15 131:14 today [6] 31:7 41:9,19.24 71:19 130:13 Today's [i] 7:3 r together^] 24:12 54:13 149:2 157:23 184:5 188:3 Tommy [4] 20:8 32:14 32:15 142:23 too [2] 90:4 171:23 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 Index Page 12 Gonzales Group Taken on September 23, 1997 Multi-PageTM took - Zonolitc JOHN E. HODGES tOok[9] 51:19 54:10 58:25 86:16 107:16 -u- 99:1 100:13,25 104:6,23 105:9 174:13 175:7 18:11,21 19:15 20:20 21:18 23:6 25:17 26:20 182:5 185:21 186:8,9 187:13,14,17,18,19.21,23 124:24 150:13 152:17 182:2 topic [2] 169:12,13 topics [3] 169:20,22 180:15 U [l] 185:1 U.S[l] 21:23 ultimately [ij 181:3 uncommon [i] 159:20 totally [l] 30:4 under[i5] 16:20 19:9 towards [i] 15:18 tOwer[6] 1:19 2:8.19 41:17 188:12.22 toxic [i] 96:8 track [i | 176:1 35:3 77:5 81:22 90:6 97:12 117:6 140:16 149:22,23 178:19 183:10 186:19 189:2 undergoing [2] 43:15 43:18 trail [ij 170:24 undersigned [ii 185:21 trained [2] 49:12 167:6 understand [25] 9:13,16 trainees [i] 121:15 17:17.10 .'8:9 22:10.17 training [36] 32:3,21 33:1 33:2.10.11,13,15 43:13 43:15.18.24 44:1,1,9.12 45:15 49:14,17 51:21 76:22,24 80:24 81:2.3.4,9 24:13 25:2,6 26:5,12 29:15 37:17 52:12 61:25 62:21 63:4 64:5 90:22 99:21 112:20 118:7 142:6 180:17 96:9,20 98:18 100:10 understood [2] 24:15 160:6 162:3 163:13 99:17 168:13 169:12 Unibestostij 166:12 transcript [9] 186:17 187:13,15,16,18,20,21.22 188:2 transited] 24:11,14 58:14 61:12 travel [4] 11:10,15 69:23 79:10 unified [i] 179:8 United [i] 11:15 units [2] 13:16,16 University [3] 27:13,19 28:11 unknowingly [l] 66:3 traveling [l] 11:7 unless [3] 63:11 91:22 Travis [4] 1:19 2:9 7:5 115:16 188:13 unlikely [2] 65:20 trial [4] 4:11.23 5:6 171:2 115:18 tried [2] 60:13 171:11 unnecessary [i] 21:14 trip [i] 39:16 unsafe [2] 22:20,21 true [5] 52:25 172:5 184:5 unsigned [i] 187:23 186:16 187:13 untrue [i] 35:6 truth [3] 186:10,10,11 unusual [i] 89:25 try [7] 47:7 114:5 120:25 up [31] 20:4,14,21 24:20 152:13 161:12 167:21 27:9 29:5 32:4 43:3 50:24 180:10 181:22 29:3,10,24 30:11,13,14 values [l] 17:20 Van [2] 2:19 188:22 variety [2] 47:19 111:18 31:13 34:5,21 35:2,9 41:24 44:22 45:13 46:3 46:18 47:13 48:24 52:22 53:7 55:3 56:4 57:8,24,25 various [18] 21.8,21 59:12 60:4 63:18.20 64:2 68:20,25 70:9.10 74:4 64:19 65:5,7 66:5,7,16,23 80:24 127:9.17 128:7 67:4,6 69:9 70:21 72:8.20 140:7 154:21 158:13 72:22 74:15 75:4 82:6 168:4 169:8.22 180:22 84:1,9 91:18 92:3,14 ventilation [2] 125:25 125:25 venture [i] 37:8 versa [i] 13:18 93:12,14 95:6 96:7,19 97:4,16 98:7 99:8 100:6 100:17 101:1,25 102:11 102:21 103:11,19 104:14 105:1,11,15,22 106:21.24 version [ij 105:24 106:25 107:9,15,20,22 versus [i] 6:25 via[2] 2:18 188:21 vice [5] 13:18 117:23 131:16,16 150:3 108:10 109:9,12,17 110:11,15.22 111:6,15 112:3 113:1,2,11 114:9 114:15,19,24 115:5,10 116:17 117:21 118:13 vicinity [3] 44:16 103:1 122:2 123:6,20,22 124:2 103:14 124:11,18 125:4,14 video [ij 117:18 videographer[23] 2:25 6:22 7:7 12:2,8 84:4,7 105:17,20 111:25 117:19 124:13,16 151:4,7 153:9 153:12,14 154:10,13 177:2,5 183:14 videotape [i] 6:23 127:16 128:18 129:1,17 130:19 131:10 132:1,8,17 132:20,21 135:10,12,17 136:18 137:12 138:1,4,22 139:17 141:4;20 142:6 143:21 144:13 145:14,19 145:24 146:24 148:22 149:13,16 151:9 152:9 153:10,16 154:8,19 155:2 VIDEOTAPED [3] 1.8 155:4,7,13 157:2 158:3 1:12 187:9 159:1,18 161:3,11 163:17 violation [4] 56:25 57:6 57:7 178:23 visible [1] 59:22 visit [7] 39:19,22 42:21 43:5 82:20 83:18,19 165:15 166:3 167:2 168:16,20 169:15 170:8 170:25 171:3,8 172:1,22 173:12,23 174:19 175:13 175:24 176:24 177:7 178:13 179:7,23 180:3,14 visited[i] 71:12 181:10,24 182:4 183:3,8 volume [i] 108:16 183:13 188:4,4,7,8 voluminous [i] 109.24 week [7] 109:22 110:24 VS [2] 1:3 187:4 112:7 113:13 115:16 116:2 131:20 188:2 Witness' m 3.12 witnesses [i] 112:22 word [4] 46:2 72:23 145:15,15 worked [2] 85:17 167:10 WOrker[3] 64:21 65:11 65:17 workers [33] 44:16 45:5 45:22,22 46:14 47:6,7 61:3.13 62:21 63:3.10 64:3,9 66:9 67:9.10 81:6 90:21 102:2.15 104:5.18 134:9 159:3.19 160:2 161:5,20,23 162:8,16 169:25 workplace [9] 40:12 43:24 74:7 80:23 102:16 114:3 167:1 168:6 182:17 world [l] 145:13 written [4] 45:2 47:1,4 181:17 -X- X[] 3:1 7:22 130:10 164:2 166:17 171:6 182:8 183:6 -Y- year[5] 49:14 62:13 84:20 114:7 130:12' years [18] 13:1 34:14 69:14 74:5 103:21 123:12 139:4,15 146:20 148:11 148:11 153:2 162:10,16 162:19 167:10,12 169:9 yesterday [3] 106:6.13 113:10 yet[2] 15:14,15 yOU-all[8] 33:23 53:1 179:24 trying [2] 16:17 132:9 turn [3] 88:6 89:16 118:4 turning^] 158:10 two [20] 13:1 14:15 16:6 24:12 25:17 39:23 41:3 51:13 52:15 70:25 77:2 78:14,15 79:17 80:17 82:25 83:2 90:25 115:8 115:19 117:16 132:4 134:18 143:6 146:4,12,16 151:15 159:10 updated [i] 143:9 -w- W[6] 2:21 12:5 131:12,13 165:11 188:24 wait[i] 160:13 waived [1] 187:18 weeks [5] 14:15 25:18 39:23 41:4 71:1 West [2] 2:19 188:22 wet[i] 56:3 wetting [i] 56:14 whatsoever [4] 112:5 58:25 89:20 90:4 106:15 106:18 182:11 you-all'S[i] 15:23 young[i) 81:14 yourself [5] 16:7 20:1 38:15 55:10 150:19 71:1,17.18 78:10 84:17 93:2 94:7 96:17 106:17 111:16 131:20 134:7 162:9 two-part [i] 172:9 two-thirds [2] 158:12 158:18 two-week [2] 40:21 42:14 type [17] 11:10 22:7 50:8 57:10 58:12 60:8 86:19 87:18 91:7 97:7 152:21 153:1 159:11,21 168:1 171:18 172:13 types [51 52:24 96:21 137:20 142:7 160:7 upper[2] 11:21 15:5 USA [i] 7:16 used [9] 4:22 5:6 52:1,4 101:18 134:9 135:25 158:11,12 uses [2] 158:12,18 using [2] 24:9 136:24 Utilities [l] 147:24 -V- V [2] 2:7 188:11 vacation [i] 39:24 vague[i6] 18:1 19:13 21:16 34:17 59:9 96:25 walkings] 41:4 144:1,19 162:24 Wallace [S] 40:1,22 77:5 122:3,14 Wally [4] 83:2 149:22,23 150:2 whole [7] 12:23 25:3 30:22 54:3 131:1 136:23 186:10 wish [2] 151:23 185:3 wants [2] 65:13 163:23 within [6] 41:5 85:21 warnp] 102:15 110:9 114:1 122:18 125:5 warning [3] 127:2 129:19 without [6] 56:19,23 130:2 98:23 117:12 136:24 Washington [2] 21:4 178:18 22:1 witness [32] 1:13 3:3 watches [l] 47:17 4:12,13 5:8 7:19 30:8 - 34:18 75:3 102:6 105:9 Waters [220] 2:3,3 3:5,8 106:22 108:5 130:18 3:10 6:3,11,16 7:11,11,24 141:18 142:3 163:18 8:4,8,10 12:10 16:2 18:3 166:15 179:19 180:9 -z- Z-e-r-rm 12:21 Zang[3] 2:4 188:4,8 Zerr[S] 12:19,21 13:10 13:18 150:4 Zonolitepj 166:10 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 Index Page 13