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FILE NAME: Johnson & Johnson (JAJ) DATE: 2017 Aug 17 DOC#: JAJ018 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Legal - Deposition of Dr. John Hopkins Part 3 * Page 746 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES 2 3 TINA HERFORD and DOUGLAS HERFORD, 4 Plaintiffs 5 vs Case No. BC646315 6 AT&T CORP., a subsidiary of AT&T INC. and its subsidiary PACIFIC BELL 7 TELEPHONE COMPANY, et al., 8 Defendants. 9 10 VIDEO DEPOSITION OF DR. JOHN HOPKINS 11 Day 3 12 Thursday, August 17, 2017 13 AT: 10:03 am 14 15 Taken at : 16 Shook Hardy & Bacon LLP 25 Old Broad Street 17 London EC2N 1HQ United Kingdom 18 19 Court Reporter: DEIRDRA JORDAN 20 21 22 23 24 25 Job No. 2657980 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 747 Page 749 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF NEW JERSEY 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF NEW JERSEY LAW DIVISION - MIDDLESEX COUNTY LAW DIVISION - MIDDLESEX COUNTY 2 2 3 DAVID CHARLES ETHERIDGE and 4 DARLENE PASTORE ETHERIDGE, 5 Plaintiffs, 6 vs Docket No. MID-L-0932-17 AS 7 BRENNTAG NORTH AMERICA, INC. 8 (sued individually and as successor-in-interest to 9 MINERAL PIGMENT SOLUTIONS, INC. and as successor-in-interest to 10 WHITTAKER CLARK & DANIELS, INC.) et al., 11 Defendants. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 IRMA VERDOLOTTI, 4 Plaintiff, 5 vs Docket No. MID-L-5973-16 AS 6 BRENNTAG NORTH AMERICA, INC. 7 (sued individually and as successor-in-interest to 8 MINERAL PIGMENT SOLUTIONS, INC. and as successor-in-interest to 9 WHITTAKER CLARK & DANIELS, INC.) et al., 10 Defendants. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF NEW JERSEY LAW DIVISION - MIDDLESEX COUNTY 2 3 RONALD MARTIN TEUSCHER and 4 SHANNON TEUSCHER, 5 Plaintiffs, 6 vs Docket No. MID-L-7249-16 AS 7 BRENNTAG NORTH AMERICA, INC. 8 (sued individually and as successor-in-interest to 9 MINERAL PIGMENT SOLUTIONS, INC. and as successor-in-interest to 10 WHITTAKER CLARK & DANIELS, INC.) et al., 11 Defendants. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 748 1 APPEARANCES 2 Appearing for the Plaintiffs: 3 SIMON GREENSTONE PANATIER BARTLETT, PC BY: CHRIS PANATIER, ESQ. 4 BY: LEAH C. KAGAN, ESQ. 3232 McKinney Avenue, Suite 610 5 Dallas, Texas 75204 214.276.7680 6 cpanatier@sgpblaw.com 7 8 Appearing for the Defendant Johnson & Johnson: TUCKER ELLIS LLP 9 BY: SHARLA J. FROST, ESQ. 405 Main Street, Suite 500 10 Houston, Texas 77002 972.537.4205 11 sharla.frost@tuckerellis.com 12 Appearing for the Defendant Johnson & Johnson: 13 SHOOK HARDY & BACON LLP BY: KATHLEEN FRAZIER, ESQ. 14 JPMorgan Chase Tower 600 Travis Street, Suite 3400 15 Houston, Texas 77002-2926 713.227.8008 16 kfrazier@shb.com 17 Appearing for Whittaker Clark & Daniels: 18 HOAGLAND LONGO MORAN DUNST & DOUKAS LLP BY: MARC S. GAFFREY, ESQ. 19 40 Paterson Street, PO Box 480 New Brunswick, New Jersey 08903 20 732.545.4717 mgaffrey@hoaglandlongo.com 21 22 23 24 25 Page 750 2 (Pages 747 - 750) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 1 A P P E A R AN CES...(continued) 2 Attending via telephone: LEVY KNIGSBERG LLP 3 BY: MOSHE MAIMON, ESQ. BY: DANIEL LATERRA, ESQ. 4 800 Third Avenue, 11th Floor New York, NY 10022 5 212.605.6200 mmaimon@levylaw.com 6 dlaterra@levylaw.com (For Plaintiff^ in die Lanzo matter) 7 8 RAWLE & HENDERSON LLP BY: WILLIAM T. POLASKI, ESQ. 9 Henry W. Oliver Building 335 Smithfield Street, Suite 1000 10 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15222 412.281.5000 11 william.polaski@rawle.com (For Cyprus Amax Minerals Company 12 and Imeiys Talc America in NJ cases) 13 HAWKINS PARNELL THACKSTON & YOUNG LLP 14 BY: OLIVER BUNDY, ESQ. 455 S. Figueroa, Suite 3200 15 U s Angeles, CA 90071-1651 213.486.8043 16 obundy@hptylaw.com (For Elizabeth Arden Inc., Revlon Inc., 17 Bristol-Myers Squibb Company and Yves Saint Laurent America, Inc. in Herford case) 18 19 FOLEY & MANSFIELD BY: M. AMADEA GROSECLOSE, ESQ. 20 300 South Grand Avenue, Suite 2800 U s Angeles, California 90071 21 213.283.2100 mgroseclose@foleymansfield.com 22 (For Unilever United States, Inc. and Conopco, Inc. in Herford case) 23 24 25 P ag e 751 Page 753 1 A P P E A R A N C E S...(continued) 2 M ON TG O M ERY M cCRA CKEN W A LK ER & RHOADS, LLP BY: RONALD E. HURST, ESQ. 3 123 South B road Street Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19109 4 215.772.7242 rhurst@ nunw r.com 5 (For Brenntag Specialties in Teuscher case) 6 DENTONS US, LLP 7 BY: ERIN CARPENTER, ESQ. 601 South Figueroa Street, Suite 2500 8 Los Angeles, California 90017-5704 213.243.6112 9 erin.carpenter@ dentons.com (For Im erys Talc America, Inc. and Cyprus 10 A m ax M inerals Company) 11 D RINK ER BID D LE & REA TH LLP 12 BY: JACK N. FROST, ESQ. 600 Cam pus Drive 13 Florham Park, N ew Jersey 07932-1047 973.549.7338 14 jack.frost@ dbr.com (For Johnson & Johnson in all but Herford) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A LSO PRESENT VIA TELEPHONE: DR. DAVID S. EGILMAN 24 VIDEOGRAPHER: LINDA FLEET 25 1 A P P E A R AN C E S...(continued) 2 ORRICK, HERRINGTON & SUTCLIFFE LLP BY: C. ANNE MALIK, ESQ. 3 BY: ALLEGRA NOONAN, ESQ, 1152 15th Street, N.W. 4 Washington, DC 2000S 202.339.8458 5 amaUk@orrick.com anoonan@onick.com 6 (For Johnson & Johnson) 7 HARRIS BEACH PLLC 8 BY: MATTHEW QUIRIN, ESQ. 100 Wall Street 9 New York, New York 10005 212.912.3505 10 mquirin@HarTisBeach.com (For GlaxoSmithKline in Teuscher case) 11 12 COSMICH SIMMONS & BROWN BY: LaKEYSHA GREER ISAAC, ESQ. 13 400 Vision Drive, Suite 200 Jackson, Mississippi 39211 14 601.863.2100 lakeysha@cs-law.com 15 (For Shulton, Inc., sued individually and as successor to The Shulton Group and/or 16 Shulton, Inc.; The Procter & Gamble Company, sued as successor-in-interest to The Shulton 17 Group and/or Shulton, Inc.; and Wyeth Holdings LLC, f/k/a Wyeth Holdings Corporation, f/k/a 18 American Cyanamid Company, sued individually and as successor-in-interest to The Shulton 19 Group and/or Shulton, Inc.) 20 KING & SPALDING LLP 21 BY: JULIA ROMANO, ESQ. BY: ALEXANDER CALFO, ESQ. 22 633 West Fifth Street, Suite 1700 U s Angeles, California 90071 23 213.443.4365 jromano@kslaw.com 24 (For Johnson & Johnson in Herford case) 25 Page 752 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 754 (On the record at 10:03 am) VIDEOGRAPHER: We are now on the record. This is the continued deposition o f John Hopkins. The date today is August 17,2017, and the time is 10:03 am. EXAMINATION: BY M R PANATIER: Q Thanks, and I will go to the board. All right, sir. So good morning. A Good morning. Q All right. One o f the things you brought up yesterday with a few o f the results that I had put on our board - A Mmmhmm. Q -- was that you said you were not sure whether or not those were results for the cosmetic grade or perhaps industrial; do you recall that? A I do recall that, yes. Q Okay. Well, I took that seriously because I want to make sure that we are very clear with the truth as far as what the results were, and I actually looked in some o f the documents and I think I have the answer for us; okay? 3 (Pages 751 - 754) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 1 A Mmm hmm. Page 755 1 (this is an industrial sample). Page 757 2 Q So this is exhibit 155. 2 A nd is that --that's w hat I've written right 3 (Exhibit 155 marked for identification) 3 here. Does that - do you agree with that? 4 And you can see if you turn to the second 4 A Yes. 5 page, this is from Vernon Zeitz to Roger Miller, and 5 Q Okay. 6 these are the two main guys we see from Windsor 6 A I agree with what you've written, yes. 7 Minerals; right? 7 Q All right. 8 A Yes. 8 Now, if we turn to the July 1,1975, samples, 9 Q And that again is the mining outfit that was 9 and if you turn to the actual results on the following 10 doing the physical mining o f the ore; correct? 10 page? 11 A Correct. 11 A That's Exhibit 79, yes. 12 Q Okay. 12 Q Right. That's from Exhibit 79. They have the 13 Now, if you go down I've blocked in a 13 same monikers. They have GI, W I and HC; correct? 14 section - - 1 ran out o f highlighter, so it's in green? 14 A They have those names, yes. 15 A Yeah. 15 Q Okay. 16 Q And you see here it says: 16 And for Confirmed asbestos visual, there were 17 "The samples represented both the industrial 17 a total o f nine results confirmed asbestos that you and 18 materials produced at the Gassetts (GI) a n d ... W indsor 18 I agreed to yesterday; right? 19 (W I) m ill sites and the ores used in the cosmetic 19 A They are described as low, low, low, low low, 20 production (HC)". 20 low, medium, low, low, yes. 21 Right? 21 Q Right. Confirmed asbestos; right? 22 A Yes. 22 - A That's what it states. 23 Q So those appear to be the designations they 23 Q Okay. 24 have for the sources for any sample; right? 24 And there are, I counted five entries for HC, 25 A They appear to be. 25 which would be the cosmetic ore; correct? Page 756 Page 758 1 Q Okay. 1 A If that is the correct designation, that would 2 A Yes. 2 be correct. 3 Q So I'm going to go ahead and stand up at our 3 Q And that does appear to be the correct 4 board so we can m ake clear exactly w hat we're looking 4 designation from Exhibit 155 I've ju st shown you; 5 at. 5 correct? 6 So the first document I pulled yesterday was 6 A Based on what we've got on Exhibit 155, that 7 from October 10, '74, and I have this up here. 7 would be a designation, yes. 8 (Exhibit 79, previously marked, handed to witness) 8 Q In fact, he says it's the ores used in the 9 And this was one sample where they found 9 cosmetic production; correct? 10 chrysotile fibers at .006 per cent; right? 10 A That's what he says, yes. 11 A Yes. 11 Q Okay. 12 Q Now, that sample was for DGI; right? 12 So there we have five instances o f confirmed 13 A That's what it says, yes. 13 asbestos in the cosmetic ore in the fines; right? 14 Q So we would correspond that, right, to 14 A That's in the fines, yes. 15 industrial m aterials at the Gassetts mill; right? 15 Q Okay. 16 A Yes. 16 And then for the fines we have then four 17 Q Do you believe that that's a fair way to do 17 other results, two for W I and two for GI in the fines, 18 that? 18 correct, for asbestos? 19 A With the data we have in front o f us, yes. 19 A That is correct, yes. 20 Q Okay. 20 Q Okay. 21 So more likely than not, that's probably an 21 Then if you go to the other column for -- 22 industrial sample; fair? 22 there should be a --yeah, that page, right, Table 2, 23 A It probably is, yes. 23 that's the sediment; right? 24 Q Okay. 24 A The sediment, yes. 25 So I'm going to put in parentheses here: 25 Q And in the sediment my count is you have two 4 (Pages 755 - 758) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 759 Page 761 1 results confirmed asbestos for the cosmetic and you 1 Q Okay. 2 have one for WI, which would be industrial, and two for 2 Based on the information we have from M r 3 GI, which w ould be industrial. 3 Zeitz as to how they coded it, you would agree with 4 So you have two asbestos results in the 4 that interpretation; correct? 5 cosmetic ore and three in the industrial. 5 A If that information is correct, the GI and the 6 Is that fair? 6 HC, that w ould relate to how you've described it. 7 A That's the interpretation based on the data we 7 Q All right. 8 have, yes. 8 And, again, as you sit here now, no reason to 9 Q Right, and you agree with that interpretation, 9 disagree with those designations; correct? 10 based on the data w e have; correct? 10 A I don't have any other information at this 11 A Based on the data that we have on our desk, 11 stage. 12 that w ould be the interpretation. 12 Q All right. 13 Q Okay. All right, sir. 13 So you would not disagree with it, as you sit 14 Any reason, as you sit here, to disagree with 14 here? 15 that reading o f it? 15 A I would not disagree with the data we have on 16 A I don't have any other information to hand 16 our desk. 17 other than w hat we have here. 17 Q And, I'm sorry, let's go ahead and look in the 18 Q Right. Okay. All right. 18 second colum n under Sediment; okay? 19 And now if you'll go to the last document 19 W hat I found was one result for asbestos in 20 there, that's the one that is November 5,1975? 20 the cosmetic; one result in W indsor industrial talc; 21 A This is Exhibit num ber 80. 21 and two asbestos findings in the Gassetts industrial 22 (Exhibit 80, previously marked, handed to witness) 22 talc. 23 Q Okay, and go ahead and turn to the first table; 23 Is that what you see? 24 okay? 24 A In the sediment, yes, yes. 25 There we have - you have fibers -- just let 25 Q All right. Okay, sir. Thank you. Page 760 Page 762 1 me know when you're ready? 1 If you go ahead and hand that over, I did 2 A Yeah. Just reading it. 2 want to ask you about one other thing, but I need to 3 Q Sure. 3 make sure I place it. 4 A So this relates to the fines, okay. 4 In the cover letter w hat he says is: 5 Q Well, I think they give us both, and you'll see 5 "Table 1 shows the actual fiber counts and 6 it there. 6 the approximate equivalent concentration in parts per 7 A Yes. 7 million o f the amphibole particles which we found in 8 Q The first column is the fines. The first two 8 these samples. Some o f them seem rather high, one had 9 columns are fines, because they tell us Fines part per 9 10 and one had 9 amphiboles. M ost o f these come in 10 million. 10 bundles o f 1 ,2 or 3 fibers with anywhere from 2-5 11 The second column is under the heading 11 amphiboles in a bundle". 12 Sediment; right? 12 Now, i f you'll take a peek here, sir, the - 13 A Yes. 13 and look in the fibers o f asbestos, for the results 14 Q And it tells us fibers in parts per million as 14 that he described as "rather high", the one with nine 15 well, does it not? 15 and ten fibers o f asbestos, were those in the 16 A It does. 16 industrial or were those in the cosmetic? 17 Q Okay. 17 A Well, ten is described as HC. 18 And there here's what I counted: I counted 18 Q So that's cosmetic; right? 19 that in the fines there w ere five results for fibers o f 19 A According to the particular letter that we had 20 asbestos for the cosmetic; there were two for W indsor 20 on Exhibit 79. 21 industrial talc; and two for Gassetts industrial talc. 21 And nine is described as HC, again, according 22 Let me know if you get the same count? 22 to the definition that we had on the letter o f Exhibit 23 A Yes, yeah. 23 79. 24 Q Okay. 24 Q So the two with nine and ten were both cosmetic 25 A Mmm, yeah. 25 ore; correct? 5 (Pages 759 - 762) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 763 Page 765 1 A Yeah. 1 question, w hich is: w ith this one in - this was - I'm 2 I should have said Exhibit 155 - 2 going to get rid o f this date here. We talked about 3 Q Yeah. 3 something else th e re ... 4 A - not 79. 4 But from 11.5.75, if the term "rather high" 5 Q And they were described as "rather high"; 5 levels o f asbestos was on the bottle, would any mother 6 right? 6 buy it? 7 A That's what the author has written, yes. 7 A No. 8 Q Okay. 8 Q Okay. 9 And then he also says that: 9 If it said, "Contains bundles o f asbestos 10 "Most o f these came in bundles o f 1 ,2 or 3 10 fibers", would you expect any m other to buy that 11 fibers w ith anywhere from 2-5 amphiboles in a bundle". 11 product for use on her child? 12 Right? 12 A No. 13 A Yes. He's used the word "amphiboles" on the 13 Q And similarly, sir, if the product said, 14 cover letter. 14 "Confirmed asbestos inside", or, "Contains bundles o f 15 Q Right? 15 asbestos", w ould any person --would you expect any 16 A But the word "asbestos" in the tabulation. 16 person to buy that talc for use on themselves? 17 Q Okay. 17 A No. 18 All right. So going back to a question that 18 Q All right. 19 I asked you yesterday, sir, i f Johnson & Johnson had 19 All right, sir. Now, what did you want to 20 stated that there was confirmed asbestos on a bottle of 20 read from? 21 Johnson's Baby Powder, w ould any m other buy that? 21 A Yes. I just wanted to clarify some o f the text 22 A If it was actually in the powder, that's the 22 from McCrone on Exhibit 80, because we've talked about 23 question, because this relates to sediment and fines 23 amphibole in one sentence and asbestos in another. 24 that would -- you would not expect to get in the actual 24 W hat the analyst appears to state when he 25 powder. 25 talks about one had ten and one had nine amphibole, Page 764 Page 766 1 Q The sediment you do not expect in the powder. 1 what he goes on to state in the next paragraph: 2 The fines do make it into the powder; correct? 2 "In several occasions we found amphibole 3 A The fines could make it into the powder, yes. 3 particles in the fines which we did not find in the 4 Q The fin e s- 4 sediment. Since most o f these amphibole particles are 5 A Yes. 5 rather small they w ould stay suspended... whereas the 6 Q --the fines are what you w ant in the powder; 6 larger, blocky, amphiboles or chunks o f amphiboles 7 correct? 7 [are] generally are not fibrous and are obscured by the 8 A Yes. Correct, yes. 8 ... talc p a rticle s..." 9 Q All right. 9 So I guess w hat I'm saying is to me there's a 10 A Yes. 10 little confusion as w hen people are talking about 11 Q And so if Johnson & Johnson actually said, 11 amphiboles in one sentence and asbestos in another. 12 "There is confirm ed asbestos in this product", on the 12 I'm just saying that it is a little confusing 13 product, do you expect any m other w ould buy that? 13 to the court. Certainly confusing to me. 14 A No, but let me just read this letter, if I may, 14 Q Okay. 15 to the court, because -- 15 A It's something we can probably look at. 16 Q Well, one moment -- 16 Q McCrone knows what asbestos is; right? 17 A Okay. 17 A McCrone knows w hat asbestos is. 18 Q --because I asked the question, and I'll let 18 Q Okay. 19 you say w hat you w ant to say. 19 A Yes. 20 A The answer, no. 20 Q And if you have an amphibole in a fibrous form, 21 Q Okay. 21 you have asbestos; correct? 22 So the answer to the question is no; correct? 22 A That would be the case. 23 A If that were --if that were the case. 23 Q All right. 24 Q Okay. 24 A Yes. 25 Now, hold on. Let me ask you the next 25 Q And so you w ould expect the chunky stuff to 6 (Pages 763 - 766) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 767 Page 769 1 drop down into the sediment; right? 1 MR FROST: No 157? 2 A Yes. 2 MR PANATIER: Oh, yeah, there is a 157. 3 Q And then the fines go on into the product; 3 Sony, this will be 157. Thank you, Sharia. 4 correct? 4 (Exhibit 157 marked for identification) 5 A Correct. 5 I've already skipped three from yesterday. 6 Q All right. 6 Q This is a memo from Ashton to - looks like 12 7 So if you turn the page, right, in the fines 7 people, December 20,1979. The subject is Italian Talc 8 what is the heading o f the column there? 8 for Johnson's baby powder, Initial 9 A Fines parts per million. 9 Shipments/Specifications, and the highlight there 10 Q W hat's the one next to that? 10 says -- well, right before it, it says: 11 A Sorry, fibers o f asbestos. 11 "Since writing the specs on a crash basis 12 Q Fibers o f asbestos, and that's w hat McCrone 12 last week, we now find Cyprus has adopted a new name 13 wrote; correct? 13 for the cosmetic talc prepared from Italian rock. The 14 A They did. 14 new name is SUPRA. This is exactly the same item 15 Q All right, sir. You can set that aside. 15 previously called talc 1615 AGIT. SUPRA talc will now 16 All right. This next one will be Exhibit 16 appear on related paperwork, from Cyprus. Therefore, 17 156. 17 we should now delete 1615 AGIT from the spec and change 18 (Exhibit 156 marked for identification) 18 it to SUPRA". 19 This is just some --sort o f some background 19 So Italian 00000,1615 AGIT and Supra, all 20 information for us. 20 the same stuff; right? 21 The 000 --or the not 000, the 00000, the 21 A Yes. 22 00000 Italian, that was also regarded a little bit 22 Q Okay. All right, sir. You can set that aside. 23 later when it was domestically ground as 1615 AGIT; 23 Here's Exhibit 158. 24 correct? 24 (Exhibit 158 marked for identification) 25 A That's m y understanding, yes. 25 All right. This is a memo from Dr Nashed, Page 768 Page 770 1 Q Okay. 1 May 11,1973, and the subject is Talc/Asbestos, Bureau 2 So if it was ground in Italy, it was the 2 o f M ines M eeting - Pfizer Comments. Memo to file. 3 00000; is that right? 3 Sometimes these guys would write a memo to 4 A Yes. 4 other people and sometimes they would write it to 5 Q And i f it was ground in the US, it was 1615 5 nobody and put it in the file; right? 6 AGIT; right? 6 A Yes. 7 A Correct. 7 Q Okay. 8 Q Same exact material, ju st one's ground in 8 All right. So the introductory paragraph 9 Italy, one's ground in the US; fair? 9 says: 10 A It should be the same, yes. 10 "Mr Norwood o f Pfizer Inc told me over the 11 Q Okay. All right. 11 phone that they are very gratified with the Bureau o f 12 M R GAFFREY: Chris, can we identify the 12 M ines meeting. 13 document? 13 He felt that he had made a good case for 14 M RPANATIER: Yeah, sure. This is - sorry, 14 analysis o f talc by TEM and he mentioned that he was 15 the document we're looking at is from D r Russell or RS 15 seconded by D r Langer o f Mt. Sinai and M r Sykes o f the 16 Russell --I don't know i f he's a doctor --to Dr 16 N ader group". 17 Nashed; correct? 17 And that would be Ralph; right? 18 THE WITNESS: Yes. 18 A Yeah, he was the head o f the Nader group, yes. 19 BY M RPA N A TIER: 19 Q Right. 20 Q All right. 20 And Ralph Nader was a consumer advocate; 21 M R GAFFREY: Date? 21 right? 22 M R PANATIER: Decem ber 3, '71. 22 A He was, yes. 23 Q All right, sir. You can set that aside. 23 Q Okay. 24 And then just, as we get a little bit later, 24 "His general feeling is that 'fibrous talcs 25 this will be Exhibit 158. 25 will be subjected to the asbestos standards, i.e., 7 (Pages 767 - 770) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 771 Page 773 1 Vanderbilt lost"'. 1 Q This is from M r Goudie. He says: 2 And remember you and I talked about sort of 2 "Over the past three years, there seems to 3 what Vanderbilt was trying to do yesterday; right? 3 have been general agreement that Transmission Electron 4 A Yes. 4 Microscopy is the only absolute proof with electron 5 Q "His main concern is to make sure that fibrous 5 diffraction for the identification o f asbestos in talc. 6 talc definition would not include platy talc. He felt 6 We have elected to use outside laboratories since any 7 that EM [that's electro microscopy] can be o f value in 7 results generated in-house were suspect". 8 establishing that platy talc is platy and not fibrous. 8 Do you know what he means by that? 9 I pointed out to him that TEM is hardly a 9 A Id o . It's a --it's a common thing I've seen 10 practical quality control procedure. He said that they 10 even with m any other areas o f study o f microbiology, 11 have five o f these machines at Pfizer and they are used 11 animal toxicology, where companies feel that i f you're 12 routinely. He doesn't see why FDA or others cannot do 12 going to talk to others, if it's done by an outside 13 the same". 13 agency, it m ay carry more weight. 14 Did I read that right? 14 It's not something I would subscribe to, 15 A You read that correctly. 15 though. It's not a comm ent I w ould agree with. 16 Q Now , we know that within the last year --this 16 Q Okay. 17 is May 11 o f '73 -- from our discussions yesterday, 17 "In view o f the latest findings at Windsor 18 that the CTFA has been leery o f the use o f TEM; 18 Minerals, it appears w ise that w e m aintain a closer 19 correct? 19 surveillance on both the ore and finished product on an 20 A That was an impression given by some 20 in-house basis. 21 correspondence w e reviewed yesterday. 21 The approximate cost o f a TEM plus 22 Q Okay. All right. 22 accessories is $175,000. I think it is something we 23 A nd Pfizer's telling --at this meeting, 23 perhaps should consider in the near future. Needless 24 Johnson & Johnson learns that Pfizer has five 24 to say, it was not forecasted for 1974". 25 transmission electron microscopes; right? 25 So, sir, based on this document, it's very Page 772 Page 774 1 A That's what it states. 1 clear Johnson & Johnson did not have a TEM at this 2 Q At this time, does Johnson & Johnson have any? 2 point; correct? 3 A '73 ... I --I don't know. 3 A Correct. They were obviously using, and 4 I w ould think the answer's going to be yes, 4 certainly I've seen a lot o f records --they were 5 though. Absolutely. Yes. 5 obviously using outside agencies to use their TEM. 6 Q Absolutely? 6 Q Right. 7 A Yes. 7 A Yes. 8 Q Okay. 8 Q But now they're saying based on apparently some 9 A Yes. 9 findings at Windsor, they want to go ahead and purchase 10 Q They certainly had the money to buy TEM i f they 10 one; right? 11 wanted; right? 11 A They --they're based on the fact that it's 12 A Yes. 12 obviously the w ay back in 1974 that the industry was 13 Q Okay. 13 m oving that people w ould tend to own their own 14 They could have bought just as many as Pfizer 14 transmission microscope, yes. 15 if they wanted; right? 15 Q All right. 16 A Yes. 16 Do you know if and when they actually bought 17 Q Okay. You can set that aside. 17 one? 18 So that was M ay 11, '73. 18 A I don't have that exact record. It implies 19 This is Exhibit 159. 19 that it w asn't forecast for '74. 20 (Exhibit 159 marked for identification) 20 Q Right. 21 This is January 3, '74. So this is eight 21 A The implication is it would be purchased after 22 months later. You see the subject is Purchase o f a 22 '74. 23 Transmission Electron Microscope Plus Attachments; 23 Q Okay. 24 right? 24 You can see up at the top there's another 25 A Yes. 25 highlight and this is another handwriting Pm going to 8 (Pages 771 - 774) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 775 Page 777 1 tiy to translate for you, and you tell me if it looks 1 A Yeah, that's what it reads. 2 right; okay? 2 Q Okay. 3 A Okay. 3 And what they were discussing there was a way 4 Q "What is cost o f each sample sent to McCrone or 4 to find asbestos at greater sensitivity in talc; 5 submitted to McCrone?" 5 correct? 6 Does that look right? 6 A They w ere discussing D r Pooley's patents. 7 A Yes, I think that's about right. 7 Q Right. 8 Q Right? 8 A Which related to asbestos in talc. 9 A Yeah. 9 It doesn't actually say any more than that, 10 Q A nd then the answer is: "Quick scan w ould be 10 b u t ... 11 about $30". 11 Q Okay. 12 It's either 30 or 50? 12 A It's a supposition. 13 A Yeah, I think it's the 50, b u t ... 13 Q Okay. 14 Q Okay. All right. 14 Now, are you aware o f any other work that 15 So the -- a quick scan by McCrone for any 15 Pooley w as doing on asbestos in talc other than his 16 samples, 30 or 50 dollars; fair? 16 concentration m ethod that had been discussed in 17 A Yeah. 17 numerous documents so far? 18 Q Okay. All right, sir. 18 A I'm not aware that he was doing other work. 19 This next exhibit will be 160. 19 Q Okay. 20 (Exhibit 160 marked for identification) 20 A But, there again, you know I've not been privy 21 Now , we're going to drop back into 1973 for 21 to w hat w ork he was doing in his laboratories at that 22 this document and recall that during that period o f 22 time. 23 time they are having conversations w ith Pooley about 23 He has quite a big laboratory. I've visited 24 his concentration method? 24 it and there's a lot o f work going on there. 25 A Yes. 25 Q But, obviously, Johnson & Johnson wouldn't have Page 776 Page 778 1 Q Right? 1 any authority over whether or not they may wish to keep 2 And that was a method to lower the 2 the whole thing confidential unless it was something 3 sensitivity to be able to detect chrysotile and 3 that they'd employed Pooley to do; correct? 4 tremolite; correct? 4 A That's --that's a supposition, yes. 5 A That was Dr Pooley's experiments, yes. 5 Q And that's a fair supposition; right? 6 Q Right. 6 A It's a reasonable one. 7 So this is March 30,1973, from Tom Shelley 7 Q Right. Okay. 8 to M r HL Warner, and cc'd are it looks like seven other 8 A As I say, I don't know what work Pooley was 9 folks, all folks we've seen before; right? 9 doing in addition to this. There could have been other 10 A Yes. 10 projects that he was doing that J& J was aware o f or 11 Q Okay. 11 familiar with. 12 He says: 12 You know, it's --on those four lines, we 13 "Harold, we will want to carefully consider 13 don't get a lot o f information. 14 the Pooley patents regarding asbestos in talc". 14 Q Regarding asbestos in talc patents, because we 15 And a patent is where you come up with a 15 know that's the subject? 16 technique or an invention or something and then you 16 A It is a subject, yes. 17 patent it, meaning no one can hopefully take it from 17 Q For this memo; right? 18 you? 18 A For that memo, yeah. 19 A Correct. 19 Q Where they're saying: 20 Q All right. Okay. 20 "... we m ay wish to keep the whole thing 21 "It's quite possible that we may wish to keep 21 confidential rather than allow it to be published in 22 the whole thing confidential rather than allow it to be 22 patent form and thus let the whole world know". 23 published in patent form and thus let the w hole w orld 23 Those were their words; correct? 24 know". 24 A Those are their words, yes. 25 Right? 25 Q All right. You can set it aside. 9 (Pages 775 - 778) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 779 Page 781 1 We discussed the Argonaut mine over the last 1 This is -- you can see in the top comer -- 2 two days. 2 CTFA method J4-1? 3 This w ill be Exhibit 161. 3 A That is the title, yes. 4 (Exhibit 161 marked for identification) 4 Q Fair? 5 And perhaps this will let us decide when it 5 A Yes. 6 came online or was approved for use. 6 Q Okay. 7 This is from Alan M arks, again cc'ing a 7 Now, this is the method that ultimately the 8 number o f people. July 16,1976. 8 CTFA passed. It is the method that they told the FDA 9 The subject is Johnson's Baby Pow der -- 9 they would put together instead o f the FDA actually 10 Support Argonaut Talc - Alternate Supply Project: 10 passing a regulation; correct? 11 "Dr JR Marshall: 11 A Correct. 12 Processed talc produced from the Argonaut 12 Q All right. 13 M ine o f W indsor M inerals Inc has been shown to be 13 And yesterday you told me this had been -- 14 suitable for the production o f JOHNSON'S ... Baby 14 went through tests and was validated by the CTFA as a 15 Powder. O n the basis o f the studies shown below, it is 15 reliable testing method for asbestiform amphibole 16 recom mended that Argonaut talc be approved as an 16 minerals in cosmetic talc; right? 17 alternate source o f talc for JOHNSON'S ... Baby Pow der 17 A Yes. 18 and shall represent a back up source in case o f unusual 18 Q Okay. 19 circumstances or need for greater supply". 19 Now, first thing about J4-1, does it test for 20 Is that what that says? 20 chrysotile? 21 A It does, indeed. 21 A It won't specifically separate chrysotile. 22 Q So it looks like the earliest approval date we 22 Q It is not designed to look for chrysotile at 23 have for use o f Argonaut talc w ould be July 16,1976? 23 all; correct? 24 A As an alternate, yes. 24 A Not by that methodology. 25 Q Right. 25 Q Okay. Page 780 Page 782 1 In case there was a mine strike or something 1 There was no CTFA methodology passed to look 2 like that? 2 for chrysotile in talc; correct? 3 A Yeah. 3 A N ot at that point, no. 4 Q Okay. 4 Q N ot at any point; correct? 5 Right. We have talked a lot about CTFA J4-1; 5 A No. Not CTFA, no. 6 right? 6 Q Okay. 7 A Yes. 7 In fact, it says on the title, Asbestiform 8 Q B ut w e have not yet looked at it. 8 Amphibole Minerals in Cosmetic Talc; right? 9 Now, CTFA J4-1 was the method for looking for 9 A That's the title, yes. 10 amphibole or asbestiform amphibole in talc that was 10 Q There were two parts to the test. The first 11 passed b y the CTFA; right? 11 was x-ray diffraction; right? 12 A That's correct. 12 A Yes. 13 Q Okay. T hat will be Exhibit 162. All right. 13 Q And the second was optical microscopy and 14 (Exhibit 162 marked for identification) 14 dispersion staining method; right? 15 And you could see up above it says issued 15 A That is the method, yes. 16 10-7 - and looks like 75 on the first page, but look 16 Q To be very clear, TEM is not part o f the method 17 at the second page. I think it's 10-7-76; right? 17 that was passed by the CTFA; right? 18 Feel free to look through all the pages if 18 A Not on the CTFA method, no. 19 you need to. 19 Q Right. 20 A Yeah. It's a very bad photocopy, b u t ... 20 Now, under Introduction, it says: 21 Q We got it from you. 21 "The method which has been adopted for the 22 A Yeah. Trouble is -- it is '76. 22 detection o f amphibole minerals in cosmetic talc is the 23 Q Okay. 23 generally accepted method o f x-ray diffraction. 24 A Yes. 24 Methods which appear in the literature for the 25 Q All right. 25 detection o f fibers amphibole, such as, transmission 10 (Pages 779 - 782) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 783 Page 785 1 electron m icroscopy with selected area d iffraction... 1 Right? 2 and electron m icroprobe,... have also been considered 2 A That's what it states. 3 since they are capable o f a lower level o f detection 3 Q And the reasons they give are the time it would 4 than by x-ray diffraction". 4 take for analysis, the expertise required and the 5 Now, a lower level o f detection means they 5 expense; right? 6 are more sensitive; correct? 6 A For quality --for routine quality control 7 A It does. 7 analysis. g Q They can detect things that are there but may 8 Q Right? 9 not be seen by x-ray diffraction or optical; correct? 9 A That's what it states, yes. 10 A Correct. 10 Q All right. 11 Q Okay. 11 Now, if you go to the very last page under 12 "However, they have not been adopted since 12 References, you can see they actually cite to a paper 13 they suffer from the drawbacks that the amount o f 13 by Rohl and Langer; right? 14 m aterial under examination is quite small (less than a 14 A They do, yes. 15 microgram) and the time for analysis, expertise 15 Q From 1974? 16 required, and expense o f equipm ent eliminates them as 16 A Yes. 17 routine methods". 17 Q Okay. 18 Right? 18 Right, sir. You can set that aside. 19 A Yes. 19 The next exhibit will be 163. 20 Q Certainly, i f Johnson & Johnson had wanted to, 20 (Exhibit 163 marked for identification) 21 either at this time or before, they could have set a 21 Now, the CTFA adopts J4-1 there officially in 22 routine TEM testing method in house; correct? 22 October of 1976, but here we are in January 20,1977. 23 A Or subcontracted it to an outside contractor. 23 This is called a Progress Report to the CTFA Scientific 24 Q Right, and we've seen some o f those results; 24 Advisory Committee Concerning the Task Force on Round 25 right? 25 Robin Testing of Consumer Talcum Products; right? Page 784 Page 786 1 A Back from, yes -- 1 A Yes. 2 Q Okay. 2 Q Okay. 3 A --even before 1976, yes. 3 You can see the second paragraph there, just 4 Q Okay. 4 so we know: 5 You wouldn't call them "routine", though, 5 "The Mt. Sinai Laboratory agreed to 6 would you? 6 participate in the CTFA-sponsored Task Force together 7 A Yes. 7 with FDA and cosmetic talc industry to test 8 Q In the early '70s? 8 1976-manufactured off-the-shelf products representing 9 A In the -- certainly a year or two before this. 9 the largest current market sales volume". 10 Q Okay. 10 And I'll stop there because one o f the 11 A This is dated '76, but some o f those records 11 criticisms that the industry levied on Lewin's samples 12 that in fact you've shown me this morning go back to -- 12 that he tested in '72 and '73 was they had been 13 was it '74? 13 m anufactured in '70 and in some cases before 1970; 14 Q I think those two we looked at this morning 14 right? 15 were '75? 15 A That is correct, yes. 16 A '75, yes. 16 Q So here they're looking at --they're doing a 17 Q Okay. 17 round robin test o f current production from 1976; 18 A Yeah. 18 right? 19 Q The next paragraph: 19 A They are, yes. 20 "The methodology presented is the most 20 Q Okay. 21 practical available, based on current technology. The 21 "It was further agreed that CTFA Method J4-1 22 use o f Transmission Electron Microscopy with Selected 22 (Detection o f Asbestiform Amphibole Minerals in 23 Area Electron Diffraction offers greater sensitivity, 23 Cosmetic Talcs) would be employed. The following 24 but is not presented since it is unsuitable for normal 24 laboratories are participating in this Task Force, 25 quality control application". 25 using either in-house analytical facilities or 11 (Pages 783 - 786) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 787 1 consulting service..." 1 2 And it lists McCrone, FDA, Mount Sinai and 2 3 various companies, including Johnson & Johnson; right? 3 4 A That's what it reads, yes. 4 5 Q Right. Go to the next page. There should be a 5 6 highlight there. 6 7 It says: 7 8 "The following products were included, in 8 9 addition to two standard talc samples spiked with 9 10 asbestiform amphibole minerals for use in verifying 10 11 instrument... sensitivity..." 11 12 So these seven products they list here are 12 13 the products, and then they have apparently two other 13 14 standard samples they spiked; right? 14 15 A That's right, yes. 15 16 Q They have Avon Beauty Dust, Ammens Medicated 16 17 Powder, Vaseline Intensive Care Baby Power, Cashmere 17 18 Bouquet Body Powder, Mennen Baby Magic Powder, Clouds 18 19 of Clairol Herbal Essence and Johnson's Baby Powder; 19 20 right? 20 21 A They do, yes. 21 22 Q Okay. 22 23 It says: 23 24 "A summary of test results will be compiled 24 25 as soon as all analytical reports have been received. 25 Page 788 1 It is hoped that this round robin will produce a 1 2 consistency o f test results among the CTFA m em b e r... 2 3 [committees][sic], FDA, and the Mt. Sinai Laboratory, 3 4 and that these current talcum products will be found 4 5 free o f asbestiform amphibole minerals." 5 6 Right? 6 7 A That's what it reads, yes. 7 8 Q So w hat they're going to do is they're going to 8 9 send those seven samples to a number o f different labs 9 10 and then test them using J4-1, w hich has already been 10 11 adopted; right? 11 12 A Yes. 12 13 Q Okay. 13 14 All right. This next one will be Exhibit 14 15 164. 15 16 (Exhibit 164 marked for identification) 16 17 This is about a month later. Two months 17 18 later maybe. 18 19 All right. Do you see this is dated 19 20 March 31,1977? 20 21 A It is, yes. 21 22 Q It's from John Schelz, the Chairman o f the CTFA 22 23 Task Force, and he's a Johnson & Johnson employee; 23 24 correct? 24 25 A Yes, I think he was, yes. 25 Page 789 Q Well, he wrote it on Johnson & Johnson letterhead? A Yes, yes, yes. Q Okay. A He was, yes, at the time, yeah. Q And it just says; "Dear Norm; The enclosed tables represent the initial work-up o f data received from participating laboratories in the Task Force on round robin testing o f consum er talcum products for asbestiform ... [minerals] [sic]". And then he talks about what the tables mean. Well, let's go ahead and turn to the tables. You should have Table 1. You should have all three. A Okay. Q Is that one Table 1? A Yes, yes. Q Okay. Now, it has a + sign for samples which failed CTFA Method J4-1 Parts I & II; right? A Yes. Q And that says: amphibole at greater than or equal to .5 per cent; right? A Yes. Page 790 Q They have, and I believe Mount Sinai didn't participate, so we're going to leave them out, okay, because I think that's w hat we're going to see in the documents. But they have FDA, Avon, Cheesebrough-Pond's, McCrone, Colgate-Palmolive, Cyprus, Mennen (also usin * McCrone) and Johnson & Johnson. The only one to find the half per cent spiked amphibole was the FDA; right? A Yes. Q None o f the others found it, even though it was there; right? A Yes. Q They all found 3.5 per cent anthophyllite; right? A They did, yes. Q But one, two, three -- six o f the seven didn't see the spiked tremolite in the talc at .5 per cent; right? A That is correct, yes. Q Using J4-1? A Yes. Q Okay. Then in the products - you go below, they've got products 1 through 7, and we saw the list on those 12 (Pages 787 - 790) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 791 Page 793 1 products on the previous document; right? 1 A I certainly do not know at this time, no. 2 A Yes. 2 Q Okay. 3 Q These are current production samples from 1976 3 A This was a blind test. 4 and three o f the products, 3 ,5 and 7, were failed by 4 Q Okay. 5 either two or three laboratories. 5 Well, whoever was the seventh product was 6 A That's what is stated on that table, yes. 6 failed by two companies; right? 7 Q Okay. 7 A It w ould appear so. 8 The -- leave out the FDA for now. Avon, 8 Q And whoever was the fifth product, then current 9 Colgate-Palmolive and Cyprus each failed at least one 9 production was failed by three labs; right? 10 o f the current production products; right? 10 A That would appear to be the case, yes. 11 A Yes. 11 Q And whoever was number 3 was also failed by 12 Q And yet each o f those companies, Avon, 12 three labs; right? 13 Colgate-Palmolive and Cyprus, failed to see .5 per cent 13 A That would be the case. 14 o f tremolite in the CTFA talc; right? 14 Q Okay. 15 A Those --those companies did fail to see it, 15 A Yes. 16 yes. 16 Q Okay. If you go to Table II, it's the third 17 Q Right. 17 table; okay? 18 Yet they were able to register however much 18 So their little legend there says Samples 19 was still present in 3 ,5 and 7; true? 19 which failed CTFA M ethod J4-1 Part I only by X-ray 20 A Yes. 20 Diffraction (amphibole detected at any statistically 21 Q Okay. 21 significant level). 22 Now, do you know who 3 ,5 and 7 were? 22 So you have literally every product that was 23 A I don't. 23 tested except for product num ber 2, J4-1 Part I 24 Q Okay. 24 detected amphibole by x-ray diffraction; correct? 25 Let's go back to the previous document, and 25 A Yes. Page 792 Page 794 1 if you go to page 2, he lists out the products. 1 Q Okay. 2 Now, those are not in alphabetical order; 2 All right, sir. You can go ahead and set 3 right? 3 that aside. 4 A They're not. 4 So we have then current productions from 1976 5 Q He lists out the seven products that are being 5 where there's quite a few that, at least according to 6 tested; true? 6 the industry's own standard, still contain amphibole 7 A He does, yes. 7 minerals; correct? 8 Q Now, he doesn't number them 1 through 7, does 8 A By - by that analysis, yes. 9 he? 9 Q Right, and then at least three o f them were 10 A No, no. 10 found to have failed Part I and II o f J4-1 ; correct? 11 Q Okay. 11 A By that analysis, yes. 12 So we don't know for sure which one's which; 12 Q Okay. 13 right? 13 (Reporter clarification) 14 A We certainly do not. 14 This next one will b e Exhibit 165. 15 Q But w e know the seventh one listed is Johnson's 15 (Exhibit 165 marked for identification) 16 Baby Powder; true? 16 Right. This is from Jack Schelz, again at 17 A In that particular letter written three months 17 Johnson & Johnson, and it looks like he's drafted a 18 previously -- 18 form letter to the round robin participants; right? 19 Q Okay. 19 A Yes. 20 A --it was the seventh. 20 Q Okay. 21 Q Right. 21 The first highlight: 22 A But, as you correctly say, we do not know for 22 "Inter-laboratory comparison o f our Task 23 sure that that was the case. 23 Force data indicates serious inconsistencies in the 24 Q Well, I'm here to ask you, Johnson & Johnson, 24 results; i.e., three ... o f the commercial products 25 do you know? 25 have each been declared by two or three o f the 13 (Pages 791 - 794) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 795 1 laboratories to have failed CTFA Method J4-1, Parts I & 1 2 II (asbestiform amphibole detected at a level o f ... 2 3 [greater than or equal to] .5%)". 3 4 And that's what you and I just went through? 4 5 A We did, yes. 5 6 Q Okay. 6 7 "The sample code, which is still in my 7 8 possession, has been released to no one". 8 9 So the only company that had the code is 9 10 Johnson & Johnson; right? 10 11 A It doesn't say that. There could well be other 11 12 companies or CTFA or FDA. They could well have been in 12 13 possession of that code. 13 14 What it - what it says is the J&U employee, 14 15 he's got a copy of the code, and it's not been released 15 16 to anyone. 16 17 Q Well, sir, Mr Schelz is the one running the 17 18 round robin; correct? 18 19 A He is a --certainly a co-ordinator, yes, on 19 20 the CTFA. 20 21 Q He's the Chairman of the CTFA Task Force on 21 22 round robin testing of consumer talcum products, 22 23 Central Analytical Laboratories at J&J; right? 23 24 A He's -- yes, he's acting in his role as a CTFA 24 25 organizer. 25 Page 797 for which samples were which; right? A In his role as a CTFA co-ordinator. Q Okay. Do you know if those codes were produced in this litigation? A I do not. Q Okay. "In view o f this situation, you are urged to attend a meeting o f this Task Force so that we might discuss these results and potential sources o f difficulty. It will be necessary for us to deliberate on a further course o f action which might include special training for the analysts and repeating the round robin". So he's saying one problem could be maybe your analysts were not trained; right? A That's what he states, yes. Q Okay. He's proposing retraining them; right? A Correct. Q Okay. M RGAFFREY: Can we just date that back? M R PANATIER: Yeah. That's April 21,'77. M RGAFFREY: Thank you. Page 796 Page 798 1 Q Right. 1 BY M R PANATIER: 2 You've not seen any other documents that 2 Q This next document is 166. 3 anybody but M r Schelz at Johnson & Johnson was 3 (Exhibit 166 marked for identification) 4 co-ordinating this round robin; true? 4 Okay, sir. This is --again, this is on CTFA 5 A As an individual, no. 5 letterhead; right? 6 Q Okay. Right. 6 A It is, yes. 7 And, as you sit here today as the company, 7 Q It is the minutes o f the CTFA Task Force on 8 you're not aware o f any others; correct? 8 round robin testing o f consumer talcum products, of 9 A I'm not aware o f other correspondence at that 9 which M r Schelz is the head; correct? 10 tim e which indicates any others. 10 A Correct. 11 Q Right. 11 Q At this meeting, you have Regina Gallagher from 12 I f --w hat M r Schelz is saying here is: the 12 J&J, George Lee from J&J, and you have folks from 13 sample code for the seven samples; 13 McCrone, as well as numerous other industry and CTFA 14 "... which is still in m y possession, has 14 people, including two from the FDA; right? 15 been released to no one". 15 A Correct. 16 Right? 16 Q Okay. 17 A That is what it states, yes. 17 "Dr Schelz..." 18 Q If everybody else had the code, why would he 18 That's the J& J fellow; right? 19 feel the need to say that, sir? 19 A Yes. 20 A I don't know. 20 Q "... opened the m eeting by asking participants 21 Q Okay. 21 to introduce them selves and then stated the Task Force 22 A I just made the comment that, as it stands, 22 objectives as: 23 that that's w hat it says. 23 1. 'Determine whether or not any 1976 24 Q Okay. 24 production o f major commercial talc products contain 25 Well, certainly M r Schelz at J&J had the code 25 asbestiform amphibole contaminants'". 14 (Pages 795 - 798) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 799 Page 801 1 Which we already know three o f them at least 1 this is an F; right? 2 did; correct? 2 A Yes. 3 A That's --that's an interpretation, yes. 3 Q Okay. 4 Q But you agree with th at-- 4 It says down second big paragraph: 5 A Yes, yeah. 5 "Dr Schelz then proposed a round robin 6 Q --based on the documents we've looked at? 6 partial retest employing a TENTATIVE REVISION of Part 7 A By the methods that are used. 7 II (CTFA Method J4-1) which incorporates suggestions 8 Q Right, which was J4-1? 8 from McCrone and other microscopists ... in which 9 A Yes. 9 instructions are more clear and precise". 10 Q Which was their endorsed method? 10 So perhaps that was the reason they had this 11 A At that time, yes. 11 failure of this round robin; right? 12 Q And it still is? 12 A It's a possible, yes. 13 A By CTFA, yes. 13 Q Okay. All right. 14 Q Okay. 14 Go down to the second to last paragraph: 15 "Number 2.: 15 "Dr Schelz proposed that the OSHA Field 16 "'Test and verify CTFA Method J4-1 for this 16 Memorandum be retained as the working definition of 17 purpose - assurance that the method is accurate, 17 fibrous asbestiform (emphasis placed on 5 length: 1 18 reliable and practical'". 18 width provision)..." 19 Right? 19 Now, are you aware that the CTFA J4 was using 20 A Yes. 20 a definition of asbestos or fibrous asbestiform that 21 Q It m ust be those things; correct? 21 occurred in an OSHA field memorandum? 22 A Yes. 22 A I was not aware at that time, no. 23 Q "He then reported, these objectives have not 23 Q Now, you see that Mr Schelz is proposing they 24 yet been achieved." 24 retain that definition; right? 25 Right? 25 A Yes. Page 800 Page 802 1 A That's what he reports. 1 Q Do you know whether or not at this time OSHA 2 Q Dr Schelz provided the results o f the completed 2 was still using that definition? 3 first round robin test: 3 A I do not know what OSHA were stating in 1977, 4 "... providing the following ta b le ..." 4 no. 5 And he has the products there and he's got 5 Q All right. Okay. 6 the spiked samples, right, and those --that's a 6 On the last page: 7 summary o f what you and I already looked at where, o f 7 "Dr Schelz suggested that no attempt be made 8 the seven samples, only one lab detected the CTFA 8 to prevent more than one participant from sending ... 9 tremolite spiked talc o f seven; correct? 9 [labs] [sic] to the same outside testing lab because 10 A That's correct. 10 results could provide insight into that testing 11 Q Now, one out o f seven, that's w hat percentage 11 laboratory's intra-laboratory's dependability". 12 o f seven? One seventh? 12 Right? 13 A Fourteen. 13 A Yes. 14 Q Fourteen per cent? 14 Q So if two people sent their tests to the same 15 A Give or take. 15 lab, and that lab came up with two different results, 16 Q Okay. 16 that w ould show that that lab m ight have inconsistent 17 So if you took a test and you got a 17 results; right? 18 14 per cent on it, that's -- that's like an F minus; 18 A That's --that's theoretically possible. 19 right? 19 Q Right. 20 A I'm sure. 20 A W hat it states the testing laboratory's 21 Q I mean, okay, U K has letter grades, right, or 21 inter-laboratory [sic] dependability, which is the 22 do they? 22 purpose o f doing this, you would lose that by --if 23 A Yes. 23 everyone sent them to the same lab, you wouldn't get 24 Q Okay. 24 that level o f divergence in results. 25 W hether you're on letter grades or pass/fail, 25 Q No, what he says is -- first, he doesn't say 15 (Pages 799 - 802) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 803 Page 805 1 "inter-laboratory", he says "intra -- laboratory", 1 A He proposes that as a --as a proposal, yes. 2 meaning inside one lab; right? 2 Q Right. 3 A Yes. 3 Do you know that it was ever actually 4 Q Meaning, let's say you -- let's say we took the 4 revised? 5 same sample, we divided it in two and we gave it to the 5 A I don't. 6 same lab, and in one they said positive and in one they 6 Q Okay. 7 said negative, that would suggest the lab has a problem 7 I f it's still in effect today, we know that 8 with their consistency; right? 8 the one round robin --are you aware o f any other round 9 A It would, yes. 9 robins that were done on this? 10 Q Okay. 10 A I'm not aware that any were. 11 A Yes. 11 Q Okay. 12 Q You can see that aside. 12 A I'm not aware that any were not done. 13 So we know in May o f 77, seven months after 13 Q Okay. 14 the CTFA has adopted J4, they've done a round robin 14 But we know that, based on this test the CTFA 15 with seven different labs and one lab got it right; 15 did, that die method, as employed by seven different 16 correct? 16 parties, including M cCrone, were not finding asbestos 17 A Yes. 17 that was intentionally added; correct? 18 Q Okay. 18 A At that early stage, that is the - that is the 19 Was J4-1 ever actually revised and adopted? 19 correct interpretation. 20 A I don't know whether J4-1 was revised. 20 Q Right. 21 Q Mmmhmm. 21 And by the way, Johnson & Johnson continued 22 A But what we do know is that the ability of 22 to use McCrone after this date; right? 23 outside and inside laboratories was certainly raised. 23 A Amongst other companies, yes. 24 The quality o f the ability was raised. 24 Q Okay. 25 Q Sure. 25 This next exhibit is 167. Page 804 Page 806 1 B ut w hat they --what M r Schelz's conclusion 1 (Exhibit 167 marked for identification) 2 was, a Johnson & Johnson employee, was that the methoc 2 August 9 --29,1977. This is a status 3 had yet to be shown to be reliable --his w ords - 3 report by George Lee to DD Johnston, and the subject is 4 accurate, reliable and practical; right? 4 Defense o f Talc Safety; right? 5 A Yes. 5 A Yes. 6 Q Okay. 6 Q And he's got a summary there, but he says: 7 That was his criticism o f the method. 7 "A brief status review o f the talc safety 8 Now, that is a method that over the last two 8 defense program is presented". 9 days you have been talking to me about how it was 9 Right? 10 validated; right? 10 A That's the title, yes. 11 A Yes. 11 Q So Johnson & Johnson actually has a talc safety 12 Q Okay. 12 defense program; right? 13 A Yes. 13 A Yes. 14 Q This round robin test certainly would not 14 Q Okay. 15 suggest it was valid at that point; right? 15 Let me see here. Here's what I wanted to ask 16 A At that point, what the author is suggesting is 16 you about. 17 that the objectives hadn't yet been achieved. 17 I told you that - - 1 represented to you that 18 He's not actually criticizing the method at 18 M ount Sinai didn't participate in the CTFA round robin. 19 this point. He's stating do the people w ho are doing 19 If you'll go to page 2, please, do you see at the top: 20 the testing require additional training in their 20 "The CTFA Round Robin retest o f major powder 21 abilities to use the method. 21 brands is incomplete. Mt. Sinai Laboratory has not 22 Q Well, he proposes a revision o f the method, 22 co-operated". 23 does he not? 23 Do you see that? 24 A That's --that's an option, yes. 24 A That's what it states, yes. 25 Q W ell, that's - 25 Q Okay. All right. 16 (Pages 803 - 806) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 807 Page 809 1 And then go back to the previous page. 1 We don't know - 2 So here we have M r J W enninger, Associate 2 A W ith -- with present cosmetic talcum powders. 3 Director o f Cosmetics Technology, FDA. Johnson & 3 Q Well, and, o f course, what we saw when 4 Johnson is saying that he expressed his opinion at the 4 employing J4-1, that at least three presently 5 NIOSH/OSHA asbestos workshop: 5 manufactured talcum powders failed J4-1; right? 6 "... that CTFA's self-regulating action and 6 A By that particular test on that particular 7 the prevailing data lead him to conclude that there are 7 round robin at that particular date. That's -- that's 8 no problems with present cosmetic talcum powders". 8 the data we have, yes. 9 Right? 9 Q That's right. At that particular time and date 10 A That's what he states. 10 and by the particular method, the one adopted by CTFA, 11 Q Okay. 11 they failed; right? 12 W as M r W enninger at the CTFA m eeting where 12 A On that particular date, yes. 13 they talked about J4? 13 Q Okay. So go ahead and go to the bottom o f page 14 A No, he was not, but there were other people 14 2. 15 from Food and Drug A dm inistration present. 15 It says: 16 Q Y eah,so-- 16 "Com starch market test is still underway. 17 A Two o f his colleagues were present. 17 Consumer attitude to com starch is highly favorable, 18 Q Right. 18 with stated overall preference for starch". 19 There were two people from FD A at the meeting 19 Right? 20 where it was clear that, in its current state, J4 was a 20 A That's w hat it states. 21 failure; right? 21 Q Right? 22 A Either the method was a failure or the ability 22 A Yeah. 23 o f the people using the m ethod needed to be improved. 23 Q So at least at this point in 1977, the 24 Q Including McCrone? 24 consumers, at least according to Johnson & Johnson, 25 A I don't know whether any o f those results -- we 25 liked com starch and preferred it? Page 808 Page 810 1 don't know whether McCrone actually was part o f those 1 A That's w hat it states. 2 results, do we? 2 Q All right? 3 Q We certainly do. 3 A Yeah. 4 A Do th e y - - did they fail to find? Okay. 4 Q All right. You can set that aside. 5 Q In the previous --and we can go back to that 5 This w ill be 168. 6 document -- 6 (Exhibit 168 m arked for identification) 7 A Sure. 7 Do you see, sir, that this is a Baby Products 8 Q - - if you'd like to? 8 Company Specification Change Request for Windsor 66 9 A N o, I'll take your w ord for it. 9 Talc; right? 10 Q Okay. 10 A That's the grade that's used in baby powder. 11 A Okay. 11 Q That's right? 12 Q M cCrone was working on behalf of, I believe, 12 A Yes, yes. 13 Avon and M ennen -- 13 Q And the date on this is June 27, '77; right? 14 A Okay. 14 A Yes. 15 Q --when they did the round robin? 15 Q And it says: 16 A Okay. 16 "Reason for change: To include a requirement 17 Q Okay, and they failed to see the spiked 17 for the absence o f asbestos in W indsor 66 Talc. 18 tremolite. 18 Right? 19 So we have two scenarios: either these two 19 A Yes. 20 FDA guys that were at the meeting didn't report back to 20 Q The presence or absence o f asbestos in talc is 21 W enninger; or they did and W enninger, in light o f those 21 something that we've seen Johnson & Johnson addressing 22 results, said, "Looks good to me"; right? 22 since the mid50s with the Battelle studies; correct? 23 A Well, that's --if D r --M r W enninger from FDA, 23 A Yes. 24 he expressed an opinion that there were no problems. 24 Q Okay, and the first time they put an actual 25 Q Okay. 25 specification in for their talc that it contained no 17 (Pages 807 - 810) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 811 Page 813 1 asbestos was 1977? 1 unreliable; correct? 2 A W ell, you showed me a document that says 1977. 2 A Correct. 3 I've not reviewed earlier ones where that word is used. 3 Q All right. 4 We do know that, even as far back as the late 4 Now, does this say anything, and I might be 5 1940s, the company used the words, "Freedom from 5 missing it -- does it say anything about testing by 6 acicular needles", which would be a proxy for asbestos. 6 TEM? 7 Q Okay. 7 A This is a factory specification. No, it does 8 So if we see "acicular needles", we know 8 not. 9 they're talking about asbestos? 9 Q Okay. 10 A That would -- asbestos would be included in 10 A No. 11 acicular needles. 11 Q Meaning the factory is required to do J4-1? 12 Q Okay. 12 A No, this is an addendum to a specification. A 13 Now -- but here it says: we are changing the 13 specification is norm ally three, four pages minimum. 14 specification for W indsor 66 to include -- which means 14 I've not seen the actual specification that 15 to add --a requirement o f absence o f asbestos; right? 15 preceded this, and to give an honest answer, I'd need 16 A That's w hat it states, yes. 16 to see the actual four page specification that preceded 17 Q If it already had a requirement for the absence 17 this. 18 o f asbestos, they wouldn't need to add it; right? 18 Q Well, the actual four page specification for - 19 A If it already stated that, they would not. 19 that w ould include things like microbial content, 20 Q Okay. 20 arsenic? 21 So it clearly did not before June o f '77; 21 A PH. 22 right? 22 Q Loss on ignition. All that stuff; right? 23 A On the word "Windsor 66". 23 A Yes, yes, yes, as well as asbestos. 24 W hat I don't know is whether the general 24 Q Well, it wouldn't say anything about asbestos, 25 overall wording o f Johnson's Baby Powder talc would 25 because they're adding it here; right? Page 812 Page 814 1 have included that. 1 A Well, it appears to be the case, but without 2 It relates to Windsor 66 talc. 2 actually seeing the proper specification, this says: 3 Q How long had they been using W indsor 66 talc by 3 we'll include a requirement. 4 this point? 4 Q Okay. A requirement for the absence o f 5 A Since '68. 5 asbestos? 6 Q Okay. So for about ten years; right? 6 A Correct. 7 A Yes. 7 Q They would not be adding this addendum if the 8 Q And this is the first time that a requirement 8 specification already required an absence o f asbestos. 9 that it be asbestos free is added to the specification; 9 That's common sense; right, sir? 10 correct? 10 A On the face o f it, it's common sense. 11 A On the documentation you're showing me, that 11 Q Okay. 12 would appear to be the case. 12 A But if we're dealing with this analytically and 13 Q And this is your documentation, is it not? 13 scientifically, I w ould expect to see the actual 14 A Yes, and what I said was I don't know if there 14 specification that preceded this document. 15 were earlier reports w hich required that. 15 Q Right. 16 Q Okay. 16 Let's go ahead and take a break now, because 17 Now, by the way, so if you look at the second 17 I'm m issing a document. M ight as well take it early, 18 page, it says: 18 i f that's okay. 19 "Add the following Description/Properties & 19 MS FROST: Okay. 20 Requirements Section: 20 (O ff the record at 11:03 am) 21 Asbestos (CTFA J4-1) none detected". 21 (On the record at 11:16 am) 22 Right? 22 BY M R PANATIER: 23 A Yes. 23 Q Sir, our next exhibit will be 169. 24 Q This is one month after the meeting where J4, 24 (Exhibit 169 marked for identification) 25 as run by seven different labs, was held to be 25 You know what? I'm going to give you the one 18 (Pages 811 -8 1 4 ) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 815 Page 817 1 that's flagged, so you can know what to turn to; okay? 1 Q That's fine. 2 I don't have a copy o f it. I only made the 2 A nd do you know w hat the detection limit is 3 two. So I'm going to try to rem em ber w hat it is. 3 ofTM7024? 4 That is TM7024; right? 4 A I don't know at this instant, no. 5 A Yes. 5 Q Okay. All right, sir. 6 Q That is Johnson & Johnson testing's method -- 6 There's one more highlight there. It says: 7 that's w hat TM means; right? 7 how large is the sample that they're supposed to take? 8 A It does. 8 A .1 gram. 9 Q For transmission electron microscopy for 9 Q Okay. So one tenth o f a gram? 10 asbestos in talc; right? 10 A Correct. 11 A Yes. 11 Q Is what is sonicated, and then they pull a 12 Q And what is the date on that? 12 small drop from that; correct? 13 A April 11,1977. 13 A They do, yes. 14 Q Right. Now, that's the earliest iteration o f 14 Q Okay. All right, sir. You can set that aside. 15 TM 70241 could find. 15 Now, I think this helps us answer the 16 Are you, as the company, aware o f any earlier 16 question or the proposition you just made, w hich is -- 17 version o f that testing method? 17 this is going to be Exhibit 170. Okay. See w hat that 18 A N ot with a Johnson & Johnson letterhead, no. 18 one is. 19 Q Okay. All right. 19 A That doesn't have a number yet. 20 Now, that would be Johnson & Johnson's method 20 MR PANATIER: Sharia, I'm sorry, w hat exhibit 21 for TEM that they authored or put together; right? 21 num ber was that? 22 A I would assume so, yes. I would also assume it 22 MR FROST: Thatw asl69. 23 related to in house testing, but it's an assumption. 23 M R PANATIER: 169. 24 Q All right. 24 MS FROST: Yes. 25 Take a look at the first flag, and there 25 M R PANATIER: Okay. So 170. Okay. Page 816 Page 818 1 should be a highlight, and what does that first 1 (Exhibit 170 marked for identification) 2 highlight say? 2 Here it is right here. 3 A It's Analysis Time. 3 So this is a document from 1983 from M cCrone 4 First sample: one man hour. 4 where McCrone is writing to Johnson & Johnson and the; 5 Each additional sample: one man hour. 5 are returning the results for a sample; correct? 6 Q Do you know how much or how in depth analysis 6 A Yes. 7 can be for TEM when looking for asbestos in talc in one 7 Q And they say no asbestos was found in the 8 hour? How much you can actually do? 8 sample, and it is HV66. 9 A I don't. 9 Now, that is Vermont 66; correct? 10 Q Okay. 10 A I would think that's a reasonable assumption. 11 If you'll go ahead and --is there another 11 Q Okay. 12 highlight on that page? I don't think there is. Go to 12 A Yes. 13 the next page. There should be a highlight on that 13 Q It says it was prepared according to test 14 page. 14 m ethod BPC --Baby Products Company, right --7024; 15 W hat does that say? 15 right? 16 A It says: 16 A Yes. 17 "Ultrasonic dispersion o f the talc powder in 17 Q And examined by TEM electron microscopy. 18 a carrier liquid is utilized as the sample preparation 18 So it is the method that Johnson & Johnson 19 technique". 19 was having outside labs employ to test their product; 20 Q All right. 20 correct? 21 Now, have you looked at this method before 21 A Correct. 22 today? 22 Q Okay. 23 A I've not read it, certainly not in the recent 23 McCrone says: 24 past. I m ay have done in the distant past, but it's 24 "The detection limit o f this technique is 25 not immediately familiar to me. 25 approximately .1% by weight o f asbestos". 19 (Pages 815 - 818) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 819 Page 821 1 Right? 1 has the ability to test product for quality o f talc. 2 A That's w hat it states, yes. 2 Q Okay. 3 Q Okay. 3 And they are someone who I think we 4 That's not very low, is it? 4 established yesterday has been testing for asbestos in 5 A If that's correct, correct. I would agree. 5 talc for Johnson & Johnson for well over a decade, 6 Q Okay, because w e saw before Johnson & Johnson 6 perhaps 15 years or so? 7 authored this test method or began employing it, we saw 7 A Yes, they're-- 8 that some o f M cCrone's detection lim its went down to 8 Q Maybe 20? 9 .0001; right? 9 A --certainly one o f --one o f several 10 A Yes. 10 companies -- 11 Q Okay. 11 Q Okay? 12 This is --this would be, what, a thousand 12 A - - that have been used. 13 times less detection than w hat McCrone was doing 13 Q And Johnson & Johnson, as a big company, I 14 before? 14 guess you guys have regular cost control measures that 15 A If they were following that particular test 15 m ean you audit your contractors from time to time; 16 method, yes. 16 right? 17 Q Okay. 17 A Yes. 18 It's clear, at least from this paper, that 18 Q Okay. 19 J& J had asked M cCrone to follow their test method; 19 Now, this audit o f RJ Lee is March o f 2012, 20 right? 20 and how often were they audited? 21 A They'd asked them to do a test, a test -- 21 A Well, we can hypothesize because it says date 22 Q Mmmhmm? 22 o f next audit is quarter one, 2014. 23 A --using that test method. 23 So, as this report was quarter one 2012, the 24 Q Right. 24 hypothesis would be two-yearly. 25 In looking over the document, sir, did you 25 Q Okay. Two times yearly? Page 820 1 look and see how many times McCrone received samples 1 2 from Johnson & Johnson employing test method 7024? 2 3 A I did not. 3 4 Q Okay. All right, sir. You can set that aside. 4 5 And when it comes to testing, if there's an 5 6 outside lab, typically, they do whatever the client 6 7 wants in terms of; we want you to test this m uch or 7 8 this often to this detection limit or using these 8 9 methods; right? 9 10 A That's -- that's normal. 10 11 Q Okay. 11 12 A You'd request a test to a certain protocol. 12 13 Q Okay. 13 14 This next one is going to be Exhibit 171. 14 15 (Exhibit 171 m arked for identification) 15 16 There you go, sir. 16 17 Now, we just jumped ahead to March o f 2012; 17 18 do you see that? 18 19 A Yes. 19 20 Q This is a contract manufacturing audit o f a 20 21 company called RJ Lee? 21 22 A Yes. 22 23 Q All right. 23 24 Now, who's RJ Lee? 24 25 A It's a com pany who, amongst other facilities, 25 Page 822 A No, every two years. Q Every two years? A Yes. Q So we should have an audit report o f RJ Lee, so long as they were a contractor, for every two years; fair? A N ot necessarily. Going forward, one would expect to see that, but retrospectively, I couldn't answer that. Q Okay. So going forward from 2012, we should have one for 14 and 16; right? A Well, it does say "tentative" next audit Q All right. A - 2014. Q All right. I f you want, sir, can you please turn to the page -- it's 5 o f the audit, and it says Observation; right? There's a table there? A Yes. Q Observation, observation rating, root cause/corrective action and target or actual completion date; right? A Yes. Q A nd under num ber 4 --well, it says: 20 (Pages 819 - 822) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 823 Page 825 1 "There was evidence o f deficiencies in the 1 correct? 2 document control process". 2 A They're saying they're not using it, yes. 3 Right? 3 Q Okay. 4 A That's w hat it states. 4 Let's go to the next page --no, they're not, 5 Q Okay. 5 no - 6 It says they were m issing, under num ber 2: 6 A No, they're not. No, I'll grant you that. 7 "Specifications/SOPs/Test Methods were not 7 They're saying there was no method. There 8 readily accessible for use at the point where required. 8 was no copy o f that method at the site. 9 More than one analyst was working from notes versus the 9 Q Yeah. They didn't say they weren't using it. 10 testing document". 10 A No, it doesn't. It doesn't say they were using 11 Right? You see that? 11 it either. 12 A Yes. 12 Q It just says they didn't have a test --a copy 13 Q And under Observation Rating, it says 13 o f it; right? 14 "critical"; right? 14 A They didn't have a copy o f it. 15 A Yes. 15 Q And the fact that they noted that they didn't 16 Q Number 4 says: 16 have a copy o f it and said that this w as critical 17 "There was no current [test m eth o d ]... 7024 17 suggests that they should have had a copy o f it because 18 for Asbestos at the site. R J Lee also indicated that 18 Johnson & Johnson took the tim e to m ake a note that 19 the test m ethod was not an optimal method for asbestos 19 they didn't have it? 20 testing". 20 A They did. 21 Right? 21 Q Okay. 22 A That's what they state, yes. 22 Next page under Observation Ratings, these 23 Q So in 2012 the test method has been in effect 23 are all m ajor --well, this one's major. 24 since at least 1977; right? 24 For RJ Lee, the second one down, it says: 25 A That's been a J&J test method. 25 "There is no overall housekeeping process Page 824 Page 826 1 Q That's right. TEM 7024? 1 that insures cleanliness in the facility and 2 A Yes. 2 laboratories --particulate matter observed on balance 3 Q Right. 3 and in sample chamber o f FTIR and XRF". 4 And here in 2012, RJ Lee tells Johnson & 4 Do you know what those are? 5 Johnson: 5 A FTIR is a microscope, Fourier Transform 6 "... the test method w as not an optimal 6 Infrared. 7 method for asbestos testing". 7 XRF, sorry, I don't, no. 8 Correct? 8 Q Okay. 9 A That's w hat they state. 9 "The laboratory areas were cluttered 10 Q Okay. 10 including the standard solutions that were stored in 11 A And one assumes they're using their own test 11 the XRD laboratory hood." 12 method. 12 Now, we know what XRD is; right? 13 Q W ell, do you know w hat they're using? Are you 13 A Yes. 14 ju st -- 14 Q Okay. 15 A Unless I've seen a report to say what test 15 "Procedure CHEM-0009 does not have an 16 method they were using, i f they didn't have a copy o f 16 indication as to w hat labware has been cleaned. There 17 the test method, they w ould --could well be using 17 needs to be some indication o f clean labware versus 18 their own test method. 18 labware not yet cleaned." 19 Q You don't know what they're using? 19 Right? 20 A Not from this document, no. 20 A Yes, that's what's stated, yes. 21 Q Okay. 21 Q So these were deficiencies, among others, that 22 A You'd need to see it on an actual report. 22 were noted by Johnson & Johnson in this specific audit; 23 Q Either way, they're telling Johnson & Johnson 23 right? 24 that 7024, which is J&J's method that we saw that they 24 A Yeah, they're typical housekeeping comments, 25 gave to McCrone, is not optimal for asbestos testing; 25 yes. 21 (Pages 823 - 826) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 827 Page 829 1 Q Right. 1 A It's quasi governmental, yes. 2 I mean, housekeeping's pretty important when 2 Q It's not governmental, though? 3 you're talking about testing substances for asbestos; 3 A Correct. 4 right? 4 Q Right. 5 A Yes. 5 I mean, you could say I'm a quasi basketball 6 Q I m ean, w e saw this issue in 1971 with Colorado 6 player, but if you ever saw m e trying to do a layup, 7 School o f Mines; right? 7 you'd probably say I wasn't. 8 A Yes. 8 But, anyway, what Johnson & Johnson says here 9 Q They wrote you and said: all our positive tests 9 to the U SP is: 10 on the samples w e did for you were invalid because we 10 11 m ust have contaminated them all; right? 11 "Thank you for the information on the USP ft 12 A T h ey - - they did, yes. 12 That looks like 19 Talc Monograph. 13 Q Okay. You can set that aside. 13 "We understand that the statement, 'Do not 14 Okay. We're going to go back to the '70s. 14 inhale', under dispensing information for talc was 15 So this is Exhibit 172. 15 placed there only as a suggested precaution in case the 16 (Exhibit 172 marked for identification) 16 talc contained asbestos. 17 This is W illiam C W aggoner, Manager, M edical 17 Current information does not indicate that 18 and Regulatory Affairs at Johnson & Johnson. 18 the warning is needed for talc, and w e feel strongly 19 Did you know him? 19 that the statement should be removed". 20 A No, I never met him. 20 Right? 21 Q Okay. 21 A Yes. 22 A No. 22 Q Okay. 23 Q And he's writing to Gordon W urster at United 23 So Johnson & Johnson is advocating to USP 24 States Pharmacopeial Convention. 24 that a "Do not inhale statement" not be required; 25 Now, that's commonly referred to as USP; 25 correct? Page 828 Page 830 1 right? 1 A On pharmaceutical talcs, yes. 2 A It is, yes. 2 Q Right. 3 Q And USP's not a government organization, is it? 3 A This is products that are sold for the dmg 4 A No. 4 industry. 5 Q It's a trade organization; correct? 5 Q Well, they certainly didn't have a "Do not 6 A No, no. 6 inhale" warning on their product yet, did they? 7 Q W hat w ould you call it? 7 A Correct. 8 A It's a quasi government organization. 8 Q And didn't for another 12,13 years; correct? 9 It is not - it's not like CTFA or those kind 9 A Correct. 10 o f organizations w here different companies come 10 Q All right. You can set that aside, sir. 11 together. 11 M R GAFFREY: W hat was the date o f that, 12 The role o f the United States Pharmacopoeia 12 Chris? 13 is to set a quality standard for drugs m ostly and 13 M R PANATIER: Sorry. That's 8.26.77. 14 excipients; drugs, being aspirin, acetaminophen, maybe 14 M R GAFFREY: Thank you. 15 heart drugs, beta blockers, all those kind o f things, 15 BY M R PANATIER: 16 and they w ill create a standard o f quality and purity. 16 Q All right, sir. This w ill be Exhibit 173. 17 And, likewise, what are called excipients; 17 (Exhibit 173 m arked for identification) 18 so, for example, talc is used in tablet-making. W hen 18 All right, sir. This is CTFA again. This is 19 you take an aspirin, there's usually talc in that 19 the task force on the round robin testing; right? 20 product, or could be talc in that product. 20 A Yes. 21 So they set a standard for the use o f an 21 Q Okay. December 6,1977. 22 excipient in a pharmaceutical preparation. 22 It says, and o f course there's one guy there 23 Q Okay. 23 from FDA, Clifton Wilson, and M r Schelz is kind of 24 So in answer to the question, "What is USP?" 24 leading the charge. He's the Chairman here? 25 you said it was a quasi governmental agency? 25 A He's the chairperson, yes. 22 (Pages 827 - 830) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 831 Page 833 1 Q "Dr Schelz opened the meeting with a detailed 1 A It should be, yes. 2 discussion o f the results o f the Round Robin analyses. 2 Q Okay. 3 Dr Schelz recommended the following modifications of 3 Do you know whether or not the CTFA Task 4 method J4-l". 4 Force ever adopted those detection limits for fibrous 5 For fibrous tremolite to allow .9 to 5 tremolite, massive tremolite and anthophyllite? 6 1.5 per cent by weight; right? 6 A I don't know the answer to that question. 7 A That's what it states. 7 Q That is certainly not an advocation for zero 8 Q For massive tremolite, .2 to .5 per cent by 8 tolerance for asbestos, is it? 9 weight; right? 9 A It is not. 10 A Yes. 10 Q You can set that aside. 11 Q And for anthophyllite, to allow 2 to 4 per cent 11 Okay. This will be Exhibit 174. 12 by weight? 12 (Exhibit 174 marked for identification) 13 A That's w hat it states. 13 I'm going to jum p into the '90s here. It is 14 Q Right? 14 two pages, so ju st try to hold them together. 15 A That's w hat they stated in '77, yes. 15 Let me staple those for you, since that's the 16 Q Yeah. 16 exhibit. Okay. Here you go. 17 So here's where I'm confused. You told me 17 A Thank you. 18 that Johnson & Johnson had a zero tolerance policy for 18 Q Right. So that is January 10,1994; right? 19 asbestos; correct? 19 A That's the date, yes. 20 A For Johnson & Johnson products, yes. 20 Q And this is a Summary o f Raw Material and 21 Q Right. 21 Finished Product Testing for Baby Powder Talc; right? 22 And here is an employee o f Johnson & Johnson 22 A Yes. 23 and he is heading up the CTFA Task Force for J4 -1; 23 Q So, theoretically, there's a raw material test, 24 right? 24 and then the finished product should be tested; right? 25 A Yes. 25 A Yes, yes. Page 832 Page 834 1 Q He's the Chairman o f that Task Force and he is 1 Q This is January o f '94, for our context. 2 advocating that the limits --I guess these would be 2 "As per your request, I have tabulated the 3 for the detection limits; right? 3 testing performed on the raw material and finished 4 A That's a guess, yes. 4 product for B aby Pow der T a lc ..." 5 Q Right. 5 And he talks about all sorts o f different 6 Either he's advocating for an allowance of 6 characteristics; right? 7 this much o f each o f these materials, or that he would 7 A Yes. 8 say those should be the detection limits for J4-1; 8 Q Okay. 9 right? 9 And if you look on the second page, sir, for 10 A That's not clear, b u t ... 10 asbestos, it says CTFA J4-1 frequency, composite o f two 11 Q It's one o f those two things; right? 11 silos and (B) each silo; right? 12 A Yes, yes. 12 A Yes. 13 Q Okay. 13 Q And 7024 (TEM) which is the test method you and 14 And he is advocating an allowance o f up to 14 I have talked about; right? 15 1.5 per cent fibrous tremolite; right? 15 A Yes. 16 A That's what's stated. 16 Q Quarterly composite o f all silos, monthly 17 Q A nd he's advocating up to .5 per cent o f 17 composite o f float feed; right? 18 m assive tremolite; right? 18 A Yes. 19 A Yes. 19 Q Okay. 20 Q And up to 4 per cent anthophyllite; right? 20 Now, how much material in a month goes 21 A That's what's stated. 21 through the float feed? 22 Q Because we know from the previous testing that 22 A Several tons. I don't know the exact number, 23 has been done that i f you have 1.5 per cent o f fibrous 23 but m any tons. 24 tremolite or 4 per cent, or even 2 per cent o f 24 Q So how would one take a composite o f the float 25 anthophyllite, that should be detected by J4-1; right? 25 feed? Does it go into a holding bin somewhere? 23 (Pages 831 - 834) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 839 Page 841 1 Q It says for 1A - that w ould be the CTFA J4 1 Let's talk about those. This will be Exhibit 175. 2 XRD/optical method; right? 2 (Exhibit 175 marked for identification) 3 A Yes. 3 There you go, sir? 4 Q "A composite sample is made from every two 4 A Thank you. 5 completed s ilo s ..." 5 Q Okay. So you've got a two page document there, 6 Meaning once you fill two silos, you take a 6 and the reason I chose two pages is these are slightly 7 composite; right? 7 different dates, in the mid-90s for the Windsor Mill, 8 A Yes. 8 but it's a diagram o f sort o f the layout o f all the 9 Q "... labeled w ith silo numbers and production 9 different equipment and the silos, and all o f that. 10 dates and forwarded to J& J Consum er Products for x-ray 10 Do you see that? 11 diffraction. Results are reported to W indsor 11 A Yes. 12 Minerals". 12 Q Okay. 13 Right? 13 Now, one's better than the other. So if you 14 A Yes. 14 want to look at the front page first, we can look at 15 Q So Johnson & Johnson is doing the J4 and giving 15 that one first. 16 the results to W indsor; right? 16 But you see over in the top right there are 17 A Yes. 17 the silos listed there? 18 Q Okay. 18 A Yes. 19 IB, which is for transmission electron 19 Q Right. 20 microscopy, that's TM7024? 20 And those silos each measure 325 tons; right? 21 A Yes. 21 A Yes. 22 Q Right? 22 Q So if you're doing CTFA J4-1 every time you 23 "Quarterly composite samples o f above silo 23 complete two silos and you're taking one composite of 24 samples will be evaluated by TM 7024 by CPI and data 24 two silos; right? 25 reported to W indsor Minerals". 25 A Yes. Page 840 Page 842 1 Who is CPI? 1 Q Then you are taking one sample o f a few grams 2 A Consumer Products Incorporated. 2 that is representative o f 650 tons; right? 3 Johnson & Johnson. 3 A Yes, yes. 4 Q So that's Johnson & Johnson again? 4 Q Okay. 5 A Yes. 5 And if you're taking quarterly - you're 6 Q Okay. 6 taking one tenth o f a gram o f all those composite grams 7 So Johnson & Johnson is either doing an 7 for however many silos you filled in the quarter; 8 internal evaluation or perhaps they're sending it to 8 right? 9 somebody else? 9 A Yes. 10 A Yes. 10 Q Okay. 11 Q Okay. 11 Now, they've got 12 silos listed there, silo 12 So for J4-1 we have a composite o f every two 12 1 through silo 12. 13 completed silos, and for quarterly TEM w e're going to 13 A Yes. 14 have a composite o f all silos; right? O f all the silo 14 Q Now that you're looking at this, do you have 15 samples that have been taken that quarter? 15 some appreciation for how m any o f these 325 ton silos 16 A Yes. 16 they were able to fill in a - in a quarter? 17 Q Right? 17 A Several, certainly. 18 A Yes. 18 Q All right. 19 Q Okay. 19 A Yeah. 20 How many silos could they fill per quarter? 20 Q All right. 21 A I don't know. 21 But what we know is that whenever J&J, and 22 Q All right. 22 this is their protocol, their testing protocol -- 23 A Several. 23 whenever they did J4-1 on two silos, it was one several 24 Q Okay. 24 gram sample from 650 tons o f talc; right? 25 Well, I have some diagrams o f these silos. 25 A Yes. 25 (Pages 839 - 842) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 843 Page 845 1 Q Okay. You can set those aside, sir. 1 analysis an absence of acicular crystal, which is -- 2 So those testing specifications we were 2 would have picked up asbestos were it present. 3 looking at, I'll be honest with you, those sort o f silo 3 Q There's a specification, and actual testing are 4 composite samples and then the quarterly samples, I 4 two different things; right? 5 didn't find anything earlier than I think the late '80s 5 A Yes. 6 or early '90s for that. 6 Q In order to meet the specification, the testing 7 I could easily be wrong, because there's so 7 has to occur at some routine period; right? 8 many documents in the case. 8 A Yeah, and the -- you know, going back to that 9 Can you tell me, as the company, when Johnson 9 stage, people talk about testing each batch, which 10 & Johnson began doing the J4 on tw o full silos, and 10 w ould have been a manufacturing batch. 11 then quarterly TEM as a routine? 11 Now, I don't know what size the manufacturing 12 A I don't know the answer to that, but certainly 12 batch was in the late '60s, early '70s, and o f course 13 before the date that was highlighted, 1994. 13 at that point when you said you didn't find all the 14 Q Okay. 14 records, the business at that tim e w as the W indsor 15 A W ay before. 15 Minerals, w hich is not part o f Johnson & Johnson at 16 Q W hen way before? 16 this time. 17 A Well, we know that the company adopted 17 Q Right. It became part o f Johnson & Johnson 18 transmission electron m icroscopy in the early '70s, as 18 when? 19 it was being developed with M cCrone, although they 19 A 1988. Y e s,'88,'89. So that timeframe. 20 didn't buy their own transmission microscope in house. 20 We'll say '89. 21 So they were certainly doing regular testing 21 Q Okay, but during the --during the '90s -- 22 and auditing on batches, and you've put up some 22 A Sorry, hang on. That's w hen we sold it. 23 batches -- 23 Q Yeah. 24 Q Mmmhmm. 24 A It was no longer part o f Johnson & Johnson ~ 25 A - in the last couple o f days, 1973, '74, which 25 Q In '89? Page 844 Page 846 1 were being evaluated. 1 A - in '89. That's what I m eant to say. 2 So on regular batches, there was a regular 2 Q Right. 3 evaluation. 3 A Yes. So it would not be unreasonable, after 4 Q And I guess w hat I'm asking is, yeah, I have - 4 1989, that you don't have all the records. 5 I was able to find some during different times? 5 Q I understand. 6 A Yes. 6 W hat I'm - now let's get the dates straight. 7 Q To me it appeared that sometimes it was for 7 A Yeah. 8 part o f the year it seemed to be regular, and then 8 Q Windsor Minerals was part o f Johnson & Johnson 9 you'd see a gap in time and then it would come back. 9 until 1989? 10 B ut that's ju st m y evaluation o f the 10 A Yeah, until - from 1968, yes. 11 documents. 11 Q Okay. 12 So can you tell me, as you sit here right 12 A And I meant to say 1968, it was owned by J&J, 13 now, and let's ju st say before 1970 did Johnson & 13 but from about '89, it w as sold to Cyprus Minerals. 14 Johnson have a routine test m ethod where their talc was 14 So hence you m ay not find all o f the records 15 being tested for asbestos? 15 that you m ay be looking for. 16 A Before 1970, they were using x-ray diffraction. 16 Q Okay. 17 Q I understand what m ethod was employed i f there 17 Did Cyprus, after 1989 when they bought 18 was testing. 18 W indsor Minerals, did they provide routine testing to 19 A Yes. 19 Johnson & Johnson? 20 Q Was there a routine testing method prior to 20 A After 1989 - 21 1970? 21 Q Yes? 22 A The answer is yes, and I think the evidence for 22 A --that was the -- yes, that's m y understanding 23 that is that there was a specification going back to 23 that they would do the same test process, yes. 24 the late '40s, early '50s which, as we mentioned 24 Q Now, let's go back to the '60s. 25 earlier this morning, requires under microscopic 25 A Yeah. 26 (Pages 843 - 846) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 847 Page 849 1 Q W e're going to do the '60s and the '70s. 1 A Okay. 2 A Yeah. 2 Q Right? 3 Q I think we have a clear - slightly clearer 3 A Yeah, yeah. 4 picture for the '80s, but for the '60s you said there 4 Q I may have looked at more. 5 was a requirement that you not have needle-like 5 A I think that's probably true. 6 acicular particles; right? 6 Q Okay. 7 A Crystals, yes. Particles, yes. 7 And perhaps I've spent too much time on that, 8 Q Okay. 8 but I did not see routine testing from the late '40s, 9 (Reporter clarification) 9 '50s, or even the '60s. 10 Are you able to direct me, as the company, to 10 So I'm asking you, as the company, can you 11 a document that w ould tell m e w hat m ethods were 11 tell m e, can you tell the ju ry where the results are? 12 employed specifically on how m uch and w hat the 12 A I don't know the answer to that question. In 13 frequency w as o f that testing? 13 fact, it could well be that they are in a factory 14 A Okay. The methods, certainly back in the 14 that's - you know, that was closed. 15 1950s, w ere optical microscopy. 15 The product was manufactured and filled in 16 W hat w as -- optical microscopy. You can look 16 N orth Brunswick at a factory called ESDP, and I think 17 under a microscope. Back in the '50s - '40s and '50s, 17 probably elsewhere, maybe Chicago. There were 18 and that w as supposedly done on each batch. 18 certainly manufacturing operations were going on, and 19 W hat I don't have the information is what was 19 maybe they were in those manufacturing plants. 20 the size o f the batch. 20 But I don't have them. I've not seen them. 21 Q And my question to you - 1 appreciate that - 21 Q Okay. 22 m y question to you is: what document do I look at that 22 A I have spoken to --we mentioned his name, Mr 23 tells me that? 23 Bill Ashton. We used to call him "Mr Talc", and Bill 24 A I understand that somewhere in the data th a t' 24 told me there was regular checks on the manufactured 25 was provided there is a specification for talc from 25 product on a batch to batch basis. Page 848 1 1949 onwards, or late '40s onwards. 1 2 I have seen that. 2 3 Q Right. 3 4 Then so at one point you have said it was 4 5 optical, and at another point you said it was XRD in 5 6 the '60s? 6 7 A That would be later. 7 8 In the 1940s, it was optical. 8 9 Q Okay. Then it moved-- 9 10 A And some point later when x-ray diffraction 10 11 became an established test method, and I don't have the 11 12 date when XRD was introduced, XRD was added to the mix, 12 13 yes. 13 14 Q And if there was regular testing in the'40s-- 14 15 late '40s? 15 16 A Yeah. 16 17 Q '50s and'60s, where is it? 17 18 A Do you mean the results? 18 19 Q The results? 19 20 A I don't know. 20 21 I've not -- you know, I've not -- I've seen 21 22 the same documents that you have. In fact, you've seen 22 23 more than I have. 23 24 Q Well, no, I've -- I've had them, the same exact 24 25 documents available to me that you have. 25 Page 850 Q Yeah. Sometimes -A That's verbal. Q Sure, and I appreciate that. Sometimes I've seen references to "macroscopic analysis"; right? A Under a microscope. Q No. I'm using the word macroscopic? A That's fine. Q W hich literally means I looked at it with my eyeballs; right? A Yes. Okay. Q Okay? Now, in some ways that's a way in a very kind o f crude way to say, "Well, that rock looks good, that rock does not look good"; right? A Yes. Q Okay. And sometimes you could say, "Well, I could tell that rock's going to have those needle-like particles in it for sure. I'll get rid o f that"; right? A Yes. Q But we don't actually have the results to sit here and go over, do we? 27 (Pages 847 - 850) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 851 Page 853 1 A No, no. 1 It's a question (hat one would need to put to 2 Q Now, in the '70s, okay, we have seen some 2 people who were involved in the manufacturing. 3 testing. 3 Q Okay. The next document is going to be 176. 4 Do you know -- can you testify that Johnson & 4 (Exhibit 176 marked for identification) 5 Johnson, in what they have provided in this case, has 5 So this is a document --it's a PowerPoint 6 given us all o f the testing to the extent it was 6 put together by the FDA and given by John Gasper, a 7 periodic, that was done in the early '70s? 7 chemist at the Office o f Cosmetics and Colors, 8 A I can testify that everything that you have or 8 December 15,2009; right? 9 have been given is everything that was available. 9 A Yes. 10 There is no m ore documentation. There is --none has 10 Q And Johnson & Johnson attended this meeting; 11 been retained or redacted. 11 correct? 12 Q Okay. 12 A 2009. Yeah. I don't know. 13 And you said that certainly the regular 13 I certainly didn't, but it's quite possible. 14 testing that is discussed in these 1990s documents 14 Q Okay. 15 happened earlier than the 1990s, and I believe you. 15 A I'm sure it's possible that someone from 16 A Yes. 16 Johnson & Johnson attended. 17 Q But for the - let's say from 1977 to 1970, 17 Q And I'll represent to you that there are 18 okay, so that seven years or so? 18 numerous follow up emails within Johnson & Johnson 19 A Yes. 19 regarding (his; okay? 20 Q We have seen some testing and we have seen that 20 A Yes. I'll accept that, yes. 21 some testing was done, but w hat was the protocol at 21 Q Okay. 22 that time, and do we have a document that says that? 22 So let's just look at some o f the things the 23 A If we don't have a document, either in this 23 FDA says here. 24 room or in your files, it's certainly not in m y files. 24 So if you go to - the pages are not 25 I don't have any additional documentation. 25 numbered, because it's a PowerPoint, but if you go to Page 852 Page 854 1 Q As you sit here today, can you say, "I am 1 there's a page called Talc Questions and it's - the 2 aware, I have reviewed a document that tells me what 2 first question is: Is cosmetic talc safe? 3 the frequency and testing policy was that would tell us 3 Right? 4 how often and on how much was tested in the '70 to 'l l 4 A Yes, yes. 5 time period"? 5 Q And so Mr Gasper from the FDA puts out some 6 A I've not reviewed that document. If it 6 hypothetical questions: 7 existed, you would have a copy. 7 "Is cosmetic talc safe? 8 W hat I can say is, having spoken to M r Bill 8 W hat is the actual composition o f talc used 9 Ashton, who was an employee from approximately 1950 9 in cosmetics? 10 to --he was still as a consultant well into the 2000s, 10 Is asbestos present? 11 he told m e verbally that, and I recognize that's 11 Specifically, at what level? 12 hearsay --that, verbally, it was --that analysis -- 12 Does this level present a significant health 13 sorry, that m icroscopic examination was done on a 13 risk?" 14 regular batch basis. 14 Right? 15 But I don't have the definition o f a batch. 15 A Yes. 16 Q Okay. 16 Q So here in '09, the FDA is asking these sort o f 17 Right. W hen Johnson & Johnson sold W indsor 17 hypothetical questions about cosmetic talc and 18 Minerals to Cyprus in '89 -- 18 m entioning asbestos; right? 19 A Yes. 19 A Yes. 20 Q - did Johnson & Johnson give all the sort of 20 Q Okay. 21 documents that went along w ith the running o f that 21 Go ahead and turn two more pages. This one 22 operation to Cyprus? 22 is entitled: 23 A I can't answer yes, I can't answer no because, 23 "Why Doesn't FDA Have This Information?" 24 again, that was a manufacturing operation and I've not 24 Right? 25 been involved in that manufacturing operation. 25 A Yes. 28 (Pages 851 - 854) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 855 Page 857 1 Q So the FDA has asked this question. It's at 1 Right? Okay. 2 the top o f their PowerPoint slide: 2 So here's my question, which is: to this 3 "W hy Doesn't FDA Have This Information?" 3 date, industry is not required in any way to give the 4 Bullet point one: 4 FDA anything; right? 5 "Cosmetics not subject to pre-market approval 5 A There's no --Congress has never required the 6 as industry does not routinely submit data". 6 cosmetic industry to provide that information to FDA. 7 Now, that's a true statement; correct? 7 And, of course, the same applies pretty well 8 A Yes. There's no requirement for premarket 8 around the world. You can - you don't need premarket 9 approval for cosmetics. 9 approval pretty well anywhere in the world for 10 Q Okay: 10 cosmetics. 11 "Ambiguity in Specifications 11 Q Right. 12 -- different ones exist. 12 Now, the closest we saw to them getting there 13 --w hich ones are followed? 13 was the FDA's proposed regulation in '73, which the 14 - are they being followed?" 14 CTFA convinced them not to go forward on, on the 15 These are some other questions the FDA has; 15 promise of self-regulation; correct? 16 right? 16 A Yes. 17 A That's correct. 17 Q Okay. 18 Q Okay. 18 This will be Exhibit 177. 19 The next one, he talks about different 19 (Exhibit 177 marked for identification) 20 analytical methodology. W e don't have to go over that. 20 And this here is a --you can see it's got 21 B ut his next page is: 21 the Johnson & Johnson Bates stamp on it; right? 22 "How can FDA obtain this information?" 22 A It does. 23 Right? 23 Q And this is a record of FDA talc submissions, 24 A Yes. 24 and these are communications between Johnson & Johnson 25 Q That's all it says on that page; right? 25 and the FDA; right? Page 856 Page 858 1 Now, if you turn to two more pages: 1 A Yes. 2 "Industry Can Volunteer Information". 2 Q And I actually did go through and count these 3 Right? 3 up. It goes from -- this is from July of '71 to 4 A Yes. 4 October o f'79. 5 Q And certainly we've seen communications between 5 A Yeah. 6 Johnson & Johnson and the FDA way back in the '70s over 6 Q Right? If you look on the last page? 7 and over and over again; right? 7 A Yeah. S A Yes. 8 Q And you don't have to go count them up, but I 9 Q Where they're -- 9 counted about a hundred communications between Johnson 10 A Yeah. 10 & Johnson and the FDA. 11 Q -- providing some data and they're advocating 11 Does that look too far offbase to you? 12 certain positions; right? 12 A No, it looks like there was a very good 13 A Yeah. The FDA and Johnson & Johnson, and 13 dialogue between Johnson & Johnson and FDA. 14 indeed other cosmetic companies, regularly would meet 14 Q Aha, and most of these are Johnson & Johnson to 15 with FDA if FDA had a question. 15 the FDA; right? 16 Q And we know that the FDA in mid-March of 1976 16 A Yes. 17 asked the CTFA if it would provide results of the 17 Q The great majority? IS company's periodic monitoring for asbestos; right? 18 A Yes. 19 A Yes. 19 Q It's sort of a one-sided conversation; right? 20 Q And ultimately the CTFA voted against doing 20 A Well, what we don't have here are any requests 21 that; correct? 21 from FDA. 22 A Apparently, yes. 22 But certainly J&J, I would read this has 23 Q Okay. 23 taken a responsible position to provide FDA with 24 And then that's all that's there. His last 24 whatever information they may need. 25 slide is "Questions?" 25 Q Well, is it --that's an interesting point. 29 (Pages 855 - 858) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 859 1 You just said that it is a record of Johnson 1 2 & Johnson providing the FDA with whatever they may 2 3 need; right? 3 4 A Yes. 4 5 Q Truly, it's a record of Johnson & Johnson 5 6 providing the FDA with what Johnson & Johnson wanted to 6 7 provide the FDA with; right? 7 8 A Well, that's an interpretation. 8 9 When I read what is presented here, it's a 9 10 pretty comprehensive set of documentation covering all 10 11 aspects of talc safety, discussions with FDA, 11 12 discussions with CTFA, a lot of information, including 12 13 confidential telephone conversations. 13 14 There's quite a lot of information there that 14 15 is saying that the company is keeping FDA in the 15 16 picture. 16 17 Q They're providing to them what they feel should 17 18 be provided to the FDA; right? 18 19 A Yeah, and I think if you go hack to some of the 19 20 very early meetings between Johnson & Johnson, CTFA and 20 21 FDA, there was an outcome of those that we will keep 21 22 you informed. 22 23 I'm pretty sure I remember those words are 23 24 part of that initial 1972, '71 conversations -- 24 25 Q Right. 25 Page 860 1 A --that we'll keep a dialogue. We'll keep the 1 2 door open and keep you --keep you involved. 2 3 Q Telling someone you'll keep them informed and 3 4 keeping them informed are two different things; right? 4 5 A Theoretically, hypothetically, yes. 5 6 Q Right. 6 7 A But I would argue that whatever documentation 7 8 is provided to FDA is reasonable. 8 9 Q I mean, I'll be honest. You know, I run into 9 10 people from tim e to time that I kind o f know, and I 10 11 say, "Hey, let's go get dinner some time", and both o f 11 12 us know it's not going to happen; right? 12 13 A Gee, that's terrible. 13 14 Q I know, but -- 14 15 A Do you really say that? 15 16 Q Well, I think sort of, maybe it's an American 16 17 thing w here sort o f both sides sort o f understand 17 18 that's a nice w ay to end the conversation, and then it 18 19 never happens. 19 20 But saying you're going to do something and 20 21 doing it are two different things; correct? 21 22 A Well, you've just told me, yeah. 22 23 Q Well, but I'm correct; right? 23 24 A You are correct. 24 25 Q Okay. 25 Page 861 A I f that's --yeah. Q And to be fair, people have said that to me and I understand they don't mean it either; okay? I'm going to use the chart real quick. So let's talk about the communications with the FDA; all right? The Battelle studies showing tremolite in the floats from the '50s and the '60s, can you testify whether those were provided to the FDA, sir? A Well, whatever's on this list was provided to FDA. If a --if you're highlighting a study that's not on here, then it was not. Q Right. I think I'm doing that. But, like I have been doing this whole time, I want to make sure I'm not m isrepresenting it. A Okay. Q Okay. So I'm giving you a chance to say, "No, Chris, I know that that was provided, and may not even be on that list, but I know it was provided". A Okay. Q Okay? So the Battelle studies in the '50s and the '60s where they're doing the flotation and they're Page 862 finding tremolite in just about every one o f them, can you say those were actually communicated to the FDA? A I don't know the answer. Q Okay. A Let's hypothetically say no if it's not listed. Q All right. A But - because this list begins from '71 ~ Q That's right? A --we don't really know. Q It begins in '71, but I'm not holding out the possibility that they could have sent something from earlier; right? A Absolutely. Q So that's why I'm giving you the opportunity to tell me, "No, Chris, they did tell the FDA about that". Okay? So we go through the '60s and then we get to 1971. The - let's see here ... The Colorado School o f Mines memo where, on 5.14.71, internal memo where Johnson & Johnson says: those non-talc particles are tremolite. Did that internal memo get sent to the FDA from 5.14.71? A According to this, the answer would be no. Q Okay. 30 (Pages 859 - 862) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 863 Page 865 1 Let's see here ... Let's look at some o f 1 A Yes. 2 these other tests here. 2 Q Johnson & Johnson didn't have to give them 3 7.29.71,1 think is that a date that's 3 that; right? 4 actually on there, 7.29.71? 4 Let's look at what we talked about earlier 5 A No. 5 this morning. 6 Q No? Okay. 6 Here, how about this, argonaut, because we 7 A 7.21. 7 know Argonaut came online in the late '70s. 8 Q Okay. 8 4.24.74, finding chrysotile and fibrous 9 A 7.23. 9 tremolite in the Argonaut deposit. Was that provided 10 Q Sure. 10 to the FDA? 11 7.29.71, Johnson & Johnson Baby Powder ore 11 A I don't see that, no. 12 has trace fibrous tremolite actinolite. 12 Q Okay. 13 No record that was sent; right? 13 And then what about this one, 7.8.74, 14 A I don't see that. 14 chrysotile asbestos in five production runs, tremolite 15 Q Okay. 15 in one sample. 16 Is 9.3.71 there, sir? 16 7.8.74. Was that provided to the FDA? 17 A No. 17 A I don't see that, no. 18 Q Okay. 18 Q Okay. 19 That one was .001 per cent chrysotile in 19 I'm not going to ask you about this one down 20 medicated powder. 20 here, because that one was probably industrial; okay? 21 Now, if you recall, this here was a 21 A Yes. 22 McCrone --McCrone study; correct? 22 Q Although it was the result o f asbestos in talc; 23 A Yes. 23 correct? 24 Q And by the way, their detection limit, they 24 A Industrial talc. 25 were able to find .001 per cent chrysotile; right? 25 Q Yeah. Page 864 Page 866 1 A They were. 1 Okay, but let's talk about these findings of 2 Q The detection lim it set up by Johnson & Johnson 2 asbestos. 7.1.75, confirmed asbestos, and 11.5.75. 3 for electron microscopy got down t o .1 per cent. So a 3 Can you see if those were communicated to the 4 hundred times less detection limit than McCrone was 4 FDA? 5 doing in '71; right? 5 A They're not on this list. 6 A A t that time, yes. 6 Q All right. 7 Q Okay. 7 A Yeah. 8 All right. 10.27.72. Is that on there? 8 Q Now, look, that's ju st one list that I found in 9 A No. 9 the document; okay? 10 Q Okay. 10 Can you - can you identify for us and the 11 Now, I'm going to tell you that I think there 11 jury how m any positive samples, such as these that we 12 is a record that the 10.27.72 m em o - this was the one 12 have up here -- how m any that came up for finding 13 that was revised, remember, w here they took out the 13 either the m ineral tremolite, anthophyllite, actinolite 14 percentages? 14 or asbestos, or a fibrous version o f the mineral? How 15 A Yeah. 15 m any were actually com m unicated to the FDA? 16 Q I think the revised version went to the FDA. 16 A I don't know the answer to that. 17 Okay? I'm ju st going to represent to you that, but the 17 Q Okay. 18 original did not. 18 A There are quite a few letters here, quite a few 19 Do you see any notation that the original 19 articles here w hich w ould indicate that there were that 20 memo went to the FDA? 20 correspondence with FDA. 21 A No, I don't, no. 21 Q There was correspondence with the FDA, but can 22 Q Okay. All right. 22 you actually testify that Johnson & Johnson told the 23 And, o f course, the --let's go to the 23 FDA that it had positive results for asbestos minerals 24 sampling. W e know the FDA got this, right, because 24 and asbestos? 25 they did it, the FDA analysis; right? 25 A Well, I mean, I just picked one here. 31 (Pages 863 - 866) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 867 Page 869 1 Q Mmmhmm. 1 Did you not tell me yesterday that the Hamm 2 A I've not seen this document before, but it's 2 mine was an industrial mine yesterday? 3 3.30.73, submission to FDA, scans on Johnson & Johnsoi 3 A I thought it was, but, again, I'm not 100 per 4 medicated powder. 4 cent certain. 5 I don't know what that scan was. There are 5 As I said a little while ago, on those 6 various letters, talc and asbestos, telephone 6 m anufacturing factory operations, it's not - it's not 7 conversation with the FDA, talc and asbestos. 7 my field o f expertise. 8 There's quite a lot o f dialogue with FDA on 8 Q Okay. 9 the topic o f talc and asbestos. 9 All right, sir. You can set that aside. 10 Q We've established that. 10 This w ill be Exhibit 179. 11 A Yeah. 11 (Exhibit 179 marked for identification) 12 Q A nd m y question w as how m uch o f that dialogue 12 This is a PowerPoint from Johnson & Johnson 13 was Johnson & Johnson telling the FDA, "Hey, by the 13 by Tim othy M cCarthy. W ho's he? 14 way, w e are finding asbestos m inerals and we are 14 A He's Director o f Toxicology in the Consumer 15 finding asbestos or fibrous asbestos"? 15 Products Company. 16 How much? 16 Q Okay. How long has he been there? 17 A You know, I really don't have the answer to 17 A W hen was this dated? 18 that question. 18 Q W e think, because this is a PowerPoint provided 19 Q AH right. 19 to us - w e think this is in the 2010s about? 20 You can set that aside, sir. 20 A That would figure. 21 A ll right. This w ill be 178. 21 Q Okay. 22 (Exhibit 178 marked for identification) 22 A Yeah, he wasn't there when I left in end o f 23 There you go, sir. 23 '98. 24 Okay. This is Material Specification Luzenac 24 Q All right. 25 America, W indsor Grade 66. 25 If you'll turn to the third to last page -- Page 868 Page 870 1 So this is from '97. You can see that on the 1 I'm sorry, fourth to last page. 2 second page; right? 2 A It begins - what's the heading? 3 A Yes. 3 Q Well, actually, I want you to go to the fifth 4 Q Okay. 4 to last page. It says Raw Ore Sampling? 5 (Reporter clarification) 5 A Yeah. 6 9.23.97. 6 Q The pages aren't numbered, I'm sorry. 7 I f you go to Acceptance, it's on page -- at 7 A They're not numbered, no. 8 the bottom it says 144 on the Bates. It's page 4 o f 10 8 Q Okay. 9 at the top. 9 It says Raw Ore Sampling. Then it says: 10 A Yes. 10 "RJ Lee detected the presence o f chrysotile 11 Q Right? 11 fibers (NM T 6.5 ppm) in certain raw ore samples by 12 And I just wanted to --I think this document 12 Transmission Electron M icroscopy". 13 helps us establish w hat mines, at least at this time, 13 Right? 14 were being used. 14 A Yes. 15 It says: 15 Q And it says: 16 "The following mine properties in Vermont are 16 "No asbestos fibers were detected in Johnson 17 qualified and approved to provide ore for processing 17 & Johnson talc product samples. 18 into Grade 66 talc: Ham mondsville M ine, Argonaut Mine ,18 N o asbestos fibers were detected using ... 19 Rainbow M ine, H am m M ine (Windham)". 19 XRD ... or Polarised Light Microscopy ..." under the 20 correct? 20 pharmacopeia compendia; right? 21 A Yes. 21 A Yes. 22 Q W ere any o f those mines also industrial talc 22 Q That's USP; right? 23 mines? 23 A It is, yes. 24 A I don't know. 24 Q Okay. 25 Q Okay. 25 W e probably don't need to talk about USP, but 32 (Pages 867 - 870) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 875 Page 877 1 9.3 fibers per cc; right? 1 And cc is a cubic centimeter; right? 2 A Yeah. 2 A Correct, yes. 3 Q A nd for baby diapering, it would be .16 t o .18 3 Q A nd baby d iapering,. 16 to .18 fibers per cc; 4 fibers per cc; right? 4 right? 5 A Yes. 5 A Yes. 6 Q And then they -- again, we saw this from the 6 Q All right, sir. You can go ahead and set that 7 '70s, they relate it to the workplace exposure limits; 7 aside. 8 right? 8 W ere you doing many PowerPoints when you were 9 A They do, yes. 9 at Johnson & Johnson? Were they big then? 10 Q Okay, and they say it would be lower, a lot 10 A I think you, when you're doing a PowerPoint, 11 lower than the workplace exposure limits; right? 11 it's im portant to keep it down to no more than ten 12 A Yeah, yeah. 12 slides. Otherwise, people lose the will to live. 13 Q Okay. 13 Q Yeah, that's true. 14 Now , as far as you know, the OSHA permissible 14 W ho is Joan Casal -- 15 exposure lim its do not govern consum er products used in 15 A Casalvieri. She's --I believe she was Head o f 16 the home; right? 16 Toxicology in the late '90s. 17 A No, no. 17 Q All right. 18 Q Okay. 18 A Certainly, early 2000s. Head o f Toxicology. 19 But they're just doing this as an exercise? 19 (Reporter clarification) 20 A They're doing this as - 20 C-A-S-A-L-I - 21 Q Yeah. 21 Q v. 22 A - - you know, this is what scientists do. They 22 A I-V-I-E-R-A. 23 play little games. 23 Q I. 24 Q Yeah. 24 A I. 25 A And let's take some numbers. We'll pull them 25 Q Close. Your pronunciation is better than the Page 876 Page 878 1 out here, put them together. 1 spelling. 2 Q Yeah. 2 A Yes. 3 A Let's see what might happen. 3 Q Casalvieri. 4 It's a "what if' exercise, and this is very 4 A Vieri, yes. 5 much a "what if' exercise. 5 Q Okay. All right. 6 Q Sure. Sure. 6 This is Exhibit 180. 7 A Yeah. 7 (Exhibit 180 marked for identification) 8 Q But this is a game they've played before, 8 A Thank you. 9 because they played this little game, as you say, in 9 Q All right. So this is an email at the top 10 the 1970s w here they calculated how m uch asbestos a 10 betw een she and Steve M ann and Robert Predale; right? 11 baby could be exposed to and then suggested a safe 11 A Yes. 12 level to the FDA. 12 Q And she just writes this email: 13 Do you remember that? 13 "Let's discuss a response. This should be 14 A That was -- yes, I do recollect that dialogue, 14 carefully explained. W e w ould like to avoid e-mails 15 yes. 15 referring to talc as a potential carcinogen". 16 Q A nd this would be some 25, maybe thirty years 16 Right? 17 after that. 17 A That's what it states. 18 A Yeah. 18 Q Now, there's a pretty big fight going on right 19 Q They've sort o f done the similar calculous 19 now on whether talc --set aside w hether there's 20 again; right? 20 asbestos in it --whether talc itself is a carcinogen 21 A Yeah. Someone's obviously said, "Let's look at 21 for something like ovarian cancer; right? 22 this again", yeah. 22 A I'm aware that that has been a topic in the 23 Q Okay, and they've decided that during a dusting 23 last few years, yes. 24 event, you would have these levels: for an adult, 4.5 24 Q Have you not been deposed in any o f those 25 to 9.3 fibers per cc. 25 cases? 34 (Pages 875 - 878) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 879 Page 881 1 A I have indeed, yes. 1 Q Does it kill people? 2 Q Okay. 2 A It can kill people. 3 And that fight regarding talc as a cause of 3 Q Okay. 4 ovarian cancer is something that, on a regulatory 4 A But there's a high success rate of treatment. 5 level, has been cropping up since the early '90s; 5 Q Let's hope so. 6 right? 6 Is mesothelioma a fatal cancer? 7 A Yes. 7 A Generally, yes. 8 Q And at every turn when someone like NTP, which 8 Q Okay, and mesothelioma is caused by asbestos; 9 is the National Toxicology Program, has proposed 9 correct? 10 listing talc - ju st talc, without asbestiform fibers, 10 A There is debate about that. 11 as they put it --as a carcinogen, Johnson & Johnson 11 There are parts o f the world where people get 12 and the industry has opposed that extremely, extremely 12 m esothelioma w ho've never been exposed to asbestos. 13 hard; right? 13 There are hypotheses around certain other 14 A Correct. 14 viral - certain viral conditions related to 15 Q Okay. 15 mesothelioma. 16 Because they does not believe it to be a 16 There's a lot o f hypotheses in the medical 17 carcinogen? 17 literature on non-asbestos mesothelioma. 18 A Absolutely. 18 Q I'm not asking you about hypotheses; right? 19 Q Okay. 19 I'm asking you about w hat is Johnson & Johnson's 20 The allegation, o f course, is that women who 20 opinion? Can asbestos cause mesothelioma? 21 use talc and pow der themselves, so called "perineal 21 A Yes. 22 application"; right? 22 Q Okay. 23 A Yes. 23 And what other known causes of 24 Q May result in the translocation o f talc fibers, 24 mesothelioma - not hypotheses, but what other known 25 because you can have fibrous talc; right? 25 causes outside o f asbestos does Johnson & Johnson Page 880 Page 882 1 A You can have fibrous talc, yes. 1 acknowledge as a cause o f mesothelioma? 2 Q Reaching the fallopian tubes and the ovaries 2 A Well, as I said, the current medical literature 3 and causing ovarian cancer? 3 is under debate, under dialogue, under discussion, and 4 That's the allegation; right? 4 quite a few leading scientists have proposed 5 A It's a hypothesis, yes. 5 non-asbestos causes for mesothelioma, particularly in 6 Q That's w hat Johnson & Johnson's position is: 6 areas where there's never been any exposure to 7 it's a hypothesis; right. 7 asbestos. 8 A Based on animal test data, yes. 8 There are certain parts o f the world where 9 Q And they have --any time the NTP has proposed 9 there's never been exposure to asbestos, and people are 10 it, J& J and the trade organizations have vigorously 10 saying, "W hy is that?" 11 opposed it; correct? 11 So, again - 12 A Not just the trade associations, but several 12 Q And what is the proposed cause in those areas? 13 academics, people who've got expertise in this topic, 13 A There are several viruses that are being 14 yes. 14 proposed. That's the key one. 15 Q Many, if not all, o f those being consultants to 15 Q So outside o f -- asbestos is an established 16 the industry and the trade organizations; correct? 16 cause o f mesothelioma? 17 A N ot necessarily, no. 17 A It is, yes. 18 But, you know, I'm not going to get into that 18 Q Okay. 19 dialogue because that's not w hat we're here to talk 19 A Yes. 20 about. A t least that's what I understand. 20 Q Outside o f that and a hypothesis that there may 21 Q Well, I mean -- 21 be some viruses in some areas? 22 A It's an ongoing dialogue. 22 A Yes. 23 Q Ovarian cancer is a fatal cancer; right? 23 Q Anything else that is - that Johnson & Johnson 24 A No, no. There's quite a high success rate 24 would say is a cause o f mesothelioma? 25 nowadays w ith treatment. But it is a cancer. 25 A I'm not going to speculate. 35 (Pages 879 - 882) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 883 Page 885 1 Q Okay. 1 would expect to start seeing cancers. 2 A Beyond that, it's speculation. 2 A Okay. W hen you get a cancer from an outside 3 Q Okay. All right, sir. 3 environmental agent, it's not just about a level. It's 4 This w ill be Exhibit 181. 4 about the duration, the amount o f exposure over a 5 (Exhibit 181 marked for identification) 5 lifetime, half a lifetime. 6 All right This is the CTFA specification 6 It's a bit like the issue o f a cigarette. If 7 for talc; correct, sir? 7 you take one draw on a cigarette, you're not going to 8 A It's got the CTFA letterhead, yes. 8 get lung cancer. I f you sm oke 40 a day all your life, 9 Q Okay. 9 the probability goes through the roof. 10 And we've talked about this generally, that 10 So it's not a case o f how much. It's how 11 the specifications for talc, whether they're a CTFA 11 m uch over time. 12 spec or a company spec, they usually list different 12 B ut certainly w hat I commented on, arsenic is 13 things here, like color, odor -- 13 a - it's in the environment. It's in our food. We 14 A Yes. 14 all eat it every day at lower levels. 15 Q -- identification, luster -- 15 Q Okay, yeah, but I appreciate all o f that. I 16 A Yes. 16 understand that that's how --that's how it builds up 17 Q - led? 17 in our body, and all o f that. 18 A Yeah. 18 But at w hat level does it become a - does it 19 Q - - asbestos; right? 19 actually increase the risk for cancer? 20 A Yes. 20 A I've not - I've not seen -- you'd need to look 21 Q They also list arsenic; correct? 21 at w hat animal studies are. You know, it's a normal 22 A Yes. 22 thing to say you dose rats for their lifetime at 23 Q And the CTFA specification allows 3 parts per 23 various dose levels. 24 million o f arsenic; right? 24 It's way, way more than 3 parts per million. 25 A It does, yes. 25 Q It is a carcinogen? Page 884 Page 886 1 Q W hat is Johnson & Johnson's specification for 1 A Yes, at way, way more than three parts per 2 the allowance o f arsenic? 2 million. 3 A I --I don't have that in front o f me. 3 Q All right. 4 Q Okay. 4 Let's take a break. 5 A I couldn't answer that question. 5 MS FRAZIER: Actually, lunch is here. 6 Q Okay. 6 M R PANATIER: That works, yeah. 7 A But, just as a toxicologist, not necessarily as 7 (O ff the record at 12:26 pm) 8 a Johnson & Johnson deposed individual, 3 parts per 8 (On the record at 1:19 pm) 9 million is a typical background level that you would 9 BY M R PANATIER: 10 find in m ost foods. 10 Q All right, sir. This w ill be Exhibit 182. 11 Certainly, rice grown in most parts o f the 11 (Exhibit 182 marked for identification) 12 world contains way, way m ore than 3 parts per million 12 I've never been in triple digit exhibits 13 o f arsenic. 13 before. You probably haven't either. 14 Q Okay. 14 A No. 15 A It's a natural - it's in the ground, plants 15 Q All right, sir. This is M ay 3,1972. 16 take it up in their roots, you eat it, we all eat it. 16 This is a memo from Shelley to Fuller. It 17 It's around. 17 says: 18 Q Okay. 18 "In our review meeting with Professor Pooley, 19 At some level, do you know the level at which 19 he indicated that the M RC in England was going ahead 20 point arsenic is implicated as a carcinogen, because it 20 with their study using government funds; i.e., they do 21 is a carcinogen; correct? 21 not seem to w ant money from us. This w ould m ean we 22 A At high levels, it is recognized as a 22 would not be able to play any role in guiding their 23 carcinogen. 23 work, etc., as we had previously thought. Their 24 Q And how high does it have to be before you 24 approach will be more toward the industrial talc ore 25 would say: well, it's carcinogenic at that level? We 25 rather than the uses o f baby powder. 36 (Pages 883 - 886) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 887 Page 889 1 This is unfortunate as we had expected 1 A He was the Research Director for Johnson & 2 otherwise". 2 Johnson UK. 3 And he says: we should carry out a different 3 Q All right. 4 study. Right? 4 This is the letter back to New Brunswick to 5 A Yes. 5 TH Shelley; right? 6 Q Now, one o f the things that you and I talked 6 A Correct. 7 about on the first day o f this deposition was about 7 Q Okay. 8 what would be proper versus improper influence in a 8 Just introductory, it's dated June 2,1972. 9 scientific study; right? 9 He says: 10 A Yes. 10 "Firstly, I was very heartened by the 11 Q Okay. 11 progress that is being m ade throughout the company on 12 A nd here w hat Johnson & Johnson is saying is 12 this Talc Project. I feel that we have now got the 13 that the M RC - do you know w hat that is? 13 situation pretty firmly under control and are in a very 14 A It stands for the Medical Research Council. 14 strong position to establish the purity o f our Baby 15 Q Okay. 15 Powder worldwide". 16 A It's a government body. 16 Right? 17 Q All right. 17 A Yes. 18 W hat they're saying here is MRC didn't want 18 Q And he says: 19 their money; right? 19 "The current picture in England is as follows 20 A Yeah. They had plenty o f their own. 20 ..." 21 Q And: 21 And he details the University of Wales, the 22 "This would mean we would not be able to play 22 Atomic Energy Research Establishment in Harwell, and 23 a role in guiding their work as we had previously 23 then he gets down to the Allen Clark Research Center; 24 thought". 24 right? 25 Right? 25 A Yes. Page 888 Page 890 j A That's what it states, yes. 1 Q Okay. 2 Q They had hoped to be able to play a role in 2 And he says: 3 guiding it, and if they aren't giving them any money, 3 "We have sent to them samples o f muscovite 4 they're not going to be able to do that; correct? 4 and chlorite and are waiting for a sample of 5 A Yeah. W hat it says is that: 5 anthophyllite from Fred Pooley for them to surface 6 "Their approach will be toward[s] industrial 6 decorate with platinum. W e anticipate that they will 7 talc w ork rather th a n ... uses o f baby powder". 7 show yet again that the surface decoration pattern is a 8 So it looks as though they were not 8 random one and cannot be used to characterise a mineral 9 interested in baby. The Medical Research Council were 9 species. W hen this work is completed we will certainly 10 interested in industrial talc. 10 encourage them to publish. M ost reputable journals are 11 Q Okay. 11 not particularly anxious to publish 'negative' findings 12 They said that was unfortunate; right? 12 and therefore w e m ay have to turn this paper around a 13 A W ell, I guess they were hoping to get some w ork 13 little in order to get it published in a good journal 14 done on baby powder. 14 (as opposed to the 'Journal o f Obstetrics & Gynaecology 15 Q Okay. 15 o f the British Com monwealth'!!)". 16 A A nd they were - you know, the MRC were doing 16 Did I read that right? 17 it on industrial talc. 17 A Yes. 18 Q Right. 18 Q Okay. 19 You can set that aside. Let's look at 19 So, first o f all, there's a research center 20 another one. This will be Exhibit 183. 20 that's doing some work that would be a "negative 21 (Exhibit 183 marked for identification) 21 study", meaning in science w hen you talk about a study 22 All right, sir. I f you look at who authored 22 proving something is related or is not related, if you 23 this, this is W R Dean. 23 show something is not related, that's called a 24 W e've seen his name, but I don't think I've 24 "negative study"; right? Generally speaking? 25 asked you who he was. W ho was he? 25 A Yes. It's usually considered to be o f low 37 (Pages 887 - 890) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 891 Page 893 1 interest. 1 A About the protocol, yes. 2 Q Right. 2 Q Yeah -- well, they don't say "protocol". 3 A If you don't find a problem, there's nothing 3 A Okay, the program. 4 there. It's negative, yeah. 4 Q Right. 5 Q Right. 5 A Yeah. 6 So Johnson & Johnson here is saying: we 6 Q "BIBRA have now changed their approach on this 7 expect a negative finding; it won't have m uch interest 7 and are proposing to look at the effect o f carbon 8 from journals; so we should turn it around; right? 8 particles in rabbit vaginas." 9 A Yeah. 9 Right? 10 Q But they're not the ones writing the paper. 10 A Yes. 11 Somebody else is? 11 Q So they're not even --well, let's continue, 12 A Well, yeah. 12 just so w e can be clear: 13 Q Right? 13 "They are proposing to examine the migration 14 A I don't know who the author would be. 14 o f carbon particles, but by what technique I do not 15 Q W ell, it's somebody at the Allen C lark Research 15 know. Again, however, reason appears to have prevailed 16 Center; right? 16 and the m ad rush into experiments with talc checked. 17 A Well, that's what it says, although I'm going 17 It is believed that the reason they have chosen carbon 18 to be honest, I've never heard o f the A llen Clark 18 particles is because they have some knowledge o f the 19 Research Center. 19 carcinogenicity potential o f this material". 20 I presume it's a contract facility. 20 Right? 21 Q W hoever it is, they would be the people doing 21 A Yes. Carbon particles have been used by 22 the work, not Johnson & Johnson? 22 several researchers in vaginal transfer research simply 23 A They would be doing the work, yes. 23 because they're -- they're easy to identify. 24 Q And Johnson & Johnson is talking about having 24 They've been used in several studies to look 25 to turn around whatever the result is so it would be 25 at talc migration as a proxy for talc migration. Page 892 Page 894 1 publishable; right? 1 So there are certainly studies out there in 2 A Yeah. Yeah. 2 the literature where carbon, which is easy to identify 3 Q Okay. Turn the page, please. 3 under a microscope, has been used as a proxy for any ~ 4 They get to the British Industrial Biological 4 any other material. 5 Research Association: 5 Q Sure, and I wasn't asking you why they used 6 "You may recall that BIBRA were proposing to 6 carbon. 7 embark on a program on the effect o f talc in monkeys. 7 A Yeah, yeah. 8 Dr Fuller, D r Hildick-Smith and I spoke to Dr Grasso at 8 Q I think you know w hat m y concern is. 9 BIBRA, w ho w ould have been carrying out this work, an< [ 9 Johnson & Johnson went to this researcher. 10 pointed out to him our grave m isgivings about the 10 They told him about their serious misgivings about his 11 various aspects o f the proposed programme". 11 work where he w as going to experiment on the effect o f 12 So there's a researcher who's going --who 12 talc on monkeys, and they changed to carbon instead o f 13 was planning to do this w ork at the British Industrial 13 talc; right? 14 Biological Research Association. 14 A Yeah, and, you know, as I've said before, the 15 Three guys, or two guys with J&J - no, three 15 use o f carbon particles in vaginal transfer experiments 16 guys, Fuller, Hildick-Sm ith and D ean --m eet with a guy 16 is long established for the simple reason that carbon 17 to dissuade him from doing it; correct? 17 particles are easy to identify under a microscope. 18 A Well, that's not necessarily --they say they 18 They're a proxy for other particles o f a 19 have grave misgivings about the aspects o f the proposed 19 sim ilar size. 20 program. 20 Q You've --you've said that. 21 I don't know what the program was. 21 A It's a well established --it's a well 22 Q Well, let's read the next paragraph. 22 established protocol. 23 A But they've obviously got misgivings. 23 Q Yeah, you've said that. So I'm going to ask 24 Q Sure. They have misgivings about the program; 24 you the question again, because I'm not asking you 25 right? 25 about carbon particles. 38 (Pages 891 - 894) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 895 Page 897 1 The British Industrial Biological Research 1 Q You did. 2 Association was going to do an experiment on talc. 2 A I did. 3 Johnson & Johnson -- three guys from Johnson & Johnsoi 3 Q Okay. 4 m et with the guy w ho w as going to do the experiment anc 4 A I actually meant Val Chisone. 5 expressed their grave misgivings about various aspects 5 Q You meant Italy; right? 6 o f the program and then they ended up changing their 6 A I meant Italy, yes. 7 approach, not dealing with talc at all; correct? 7 Q This is from Ashton to Hildick-Smith, May 8, 8 A That is -- that is the outcome, yes. 8 1973. It's called Italian Talc Safety, Case Histories 9 Q And the w ay they characterize it is: 9 o f Talc Workers, and it's got the Italian there. It's 10 "Again, however, reason appears to have 10 the Talc Society and Graphite from Val Chisone; right? 11 prevailed and the m ad rush into experiments with talc 11 A Yes. 12 checked". 12 Q In Pinerolo, Italy, which is where Johnson & 13 Is that what they wrote? 13 Johnson was getting its talc when it got it from Italy; 14 A That's what they wrote. 14 right? 15 Q Okay. 15 A Correct. 16 Now we can go down to the Medical Research 16 Q Okay. 17 Council, the M RC, which we addressed earlier; right? 17 "Attached is a report I told you I was going 18 A Yes. 18 to obtain from M r --D r Stefano o f Monaco. The report 19 Q Okay. 19 documents the non-existence o f any carcinogenic factor 20 They say: 20 related to long term exposure to ... talc. You will 21 "We understand that the MRC has not yet 21 note that Stefano's comprehensive review o f the 22 commenced its active programme, but is currently 22 situation can produce up to 2,000 case histories backed 23 testing its dusting apparatus. Fred Pooley has not yet 23 up by 9 Italian m ed ic al... [associations] in addition 24 applied to Zach Cartwright (probably the principal talc 24 to his own opinion. 25 distributor in the UK) for the 'cosmetic' grade o f talc 25 It seems to me that the Italian records give Page 896 Page 898 1 to be used in the MRC studies. W hen he does, we have 1 us the opportunity to fortify a position on talc safety 2 agreed with M r Miller, Managing Director o f Zach 2 that no one else in this country (e.g. Selikoff) can 3 Cartwright Ltd., that he will be supplied with Italian 3 produce". 4 00000 talc and that we will be given samples o f the 4 Now, they have -- they bring up Selikoff a 5 same material as that supplied to Fred Pooley". 5 good deal; right? 6 Now, do you know whether or not ahead o f this 6 A Yes. 7 proposed research Johnson & Johnson precleared about 7 Q Okay, and he was listed as one o f those, 8 a thousand cans o f baby powder for use in testing? 8 whatever, adverse or disfavorable people in that one 9 A I do not know. 9 memo we saw yesterday; right? 10 Q Okay. 10 A Correct. 11 A I do not know the answer to that. 11 Q Okay. 12 Q D id you not see any o f those documents in your 12 "As I mentioned earlier, Dr Stefano controls 13 review? 13 Italian talc exports out o f Italy. The report is the 14 A I did not, no. 14 property o f M r Feriy w ho controls Italian talc imports 15 Q Okay. 15 into the USA". 16 Are you familiar with a researcher named Dr 16 Who's M r Ferry? 17 Rubino? 17 A I've seen the name, but I can't remember what 18 A Yes. 18 his role is. 19 Q Okay. W ho's he? 19 Q All right. W e may see some m o re-- 20 A He's a researcher who's done work in the talc 20 A Yeah, sure. 21 m ines in Vermont. 21 Q -o fw h o h e is . Okay? 22 Q Okay. 22 So they're --right now, they're mulling over 23 This w ill be Exhibit 184. 23 doing a potential study o f the Italian miners; right? 24 (Exhibit 184 marked for identification) 24 A Yes, yes. 25 A Sorry, did I say Vermont? 25 Q Okay, and it looks like they're going to have 39 (Pages 895 - 898) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 1 to work through this Dr Stefano; right? Page 899 1 BY M R PANATIER: Page 901 2 A Yes. He appears to own the records, yeah. 2 Q It's not unusual to organize symposiums. 3 Q All right. 3 A Yes. 4 This w ill be Exhibit 185. 4 Q But they've stated what the goal o f the 5 (Exhibit 185 marked for identification) 5 symposium is before they even know who the speakers 6 We'll get back to Rabino and Stefano in a 6 are, before they even know what will be presented; 7 minute, but this one is next chronologically; okay? 7 correct? 8 So this is from Hildick-Smith to John Dean, 8 A Well, what they're saying is they hope that the 9 and he says: 9 data that's presented, i.e., data which shows the 10 "Dear Bob: 10 product doesn't have a problem , w ill diminish any 11 I was pleased to have the opportunity to talk 11 interest in health hazards. 12 to you recently concerning the symposium on talc that 12 In other words, I guess they're saying: we've 13 D r W agner appears to be interested in holding in the 13 got plenty o f good data. Let's talk about it. 14 Spring o f 1974. 14 Q W ell, they --they have a specific outcome in 15 As I had indicated to you, we are all very 15 m ind for the symposium; correct? 16 anxious to have such a sym posium held in the hope that 16 A Correct. 17 the data presented there w ill be such that there will 17 Q All right. You can set that aside. 18 be diminished interest in [the] health hazards o f 18 This w ill be Exhibit 186. 19 talc". 19 (Exhibit 186 marked for identification) 20 So they've stated their goal; right? 20 All right. This is an article published in 21 A Yes. 21 The Compass: Sigma Gamma Epsilon, January 1972; 22 Q Okay. They want --they w ant there to be a 22 correct? 23 diminished interest in the health hazards o f talc; 23 A Yes. 24 true? 24 Q And those are William Ashton's initials up 25 A Yes. 25 there at the top and handwritten; right? Page 900 Page 902 1 Q Okay. 1 A Yes. 2 "In an attempt to make such a symposium 2 Q Okay. 3 significant, we believe that there are a number o f 3 The title is Asbestosform Impurities in 4 investigators in this country who have significant data 4 Commercial Talcum Powder, published '72 by David W 5 in humans w ho could m ake valuable contributions in sue! 5 Snider, Dan E Pfeiffer and Joseph J Mancuso, and the 6 a symposium. I am sure that we would be able to 6 abstract says: 7 finance the transport o f investigators in this country 7 "Eighteen commercial talcum powders were 8 for the symposium, and this aspect may be o f some 8 examined by X-ray diffraction and the petrographic 9 interest to Chris Wagner". 9 microscope to determine the amount and type o f 10 They're basically saying J&J will fly people 10 asbestosform m ineral impurities w hich were fibrous 11 to England; right? 11 serpentine, tremolite, actinolite, and anthophyllite 12 A Yeah. 12 ... which varied in amount from 4 per cent to 13 Q Okay. 13 46 per cent". 14 "I am attaching a list o f possible speakers 14 Did I read that right? 15 and an indication o f the data that they could present". 15 A You did. 16 So he apparently sent a list o f that; right? 16 Q Okay. 17 A Apparently, yes. 17 They write down below at the other highlight: 18 Q Okay. So they are playing a role in 18 "According to Selikoff, Churg and Hammond 19 orchestrating a symposium; right? 19 (1964), asbestos is a proven carcinogen responsible for 20 A Yes. 20 both pulmonary and gastro-intestinal cancer". 21 Q Okay. 21 That's something that was certainly published 22 A That's --that's not unusual. 22 that Johnson & Johnson doesn't disagree with; right? 23 MR GAFFREY: Do you have a date on that? 23 A Correct. 24 M R PANATIER: Yeah, that date is 7.23.73. 24 Q "Eighteen samples o f commercial talcum powders, 25 MR GAFFREY: Thank you. 25 used as baby powders, shave talcum powders, and spray 40 (Pages 899 - 902) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 903 Page 905 1 talcum powders, in a wide price range were examined. 1 Bill Ashton to D r DR Petterson, June 18, 2 Labels on the commercial containers did not indicate 2 1973; right? 3 either the presence or the percentage o f impurities o f 3 A Yes. 4 the commercial powders". 4 Q Okay. It says: 5 And then it's a fairly short article, but you 5 "You recall the uncomfortable aspects o f a 6 can see they have a Table I on the first page for a 6 recent article by Bowling Green University on 7 qualitative mineral analysis by XRD; right? 7 'Asbestosform Impurities in Commercial Talcum Pow der 8 A They do, yes. 8 9 Q And, out o f the 1 8 ,1 think you've got nine 9 And that's what he's --he's referring the 10 that contain tremolite or actinolite; right? 10 article we just looked at; right? 11 A Yes. 11 A Yes. 12 Q You have six that contain anthophyllite? 12 Q And he calls it "the uncomfortable aspects"; 13 A Yes. 13 right? 14 Q And all but five contain serpentine; correct? 14 A Yes. 15 A Yes. 15 Q "As you decided, we instructed the Colorado 16 Q Now, serpentine is a bit o f a broader category. 16 School to take appropriate steps to advise Bowling 17 You and I have talked about it. It includes 17 Green where and how they had erred". 18 chrysotile, b ut it doesn't necessarily m ean chrysotile? 18 Right? 19 A That is very correct, yes. 19 A Yes. 20 Q Okay. 20 Q Now, we talked about Johnson & Johnson's 21 A Yes. 21 relationship with Colorado School o f Mines yesterday at 22 Q All right. If you go to the last page, please, 22 length, did we not? 23 sir, they then break down in Table II by m icroscope the 23 A We did, yes. 24 volume per cent o f asbestiform minerals in each o f the 24 Q W e had Colorado School o f Mines after a meeting 25 samples; right? 25 coming back to Johnson & Johnson and saying: oh, we Page 904 Page 906 1 A Yes. 1 contaminated all the stuff we said was positive for 2 Q Okay. 2 asbestiform minerals. 3 A ll right, sir. A re you fam iliar w ith this 3 Right? 4 paper? 4 A They did, yes. 5 A I don't think I have seen this one, no. It's a 5 Q We had Bill Ashton giving assignments to the 6 fairly obscure journal, isn't it? It's - w hat is it? 6 Colorado School o f Mines; right? 7 Q It's called T he C om pass? 7 A Yeah. 8 A C om pass, yeah. Sigm a G am m a Epsilon. 8 Q And here M r Ashton says: 9 Y eah. N o, I'm not fam iliar w ith that. 9 "As you decided, we instructed the Colorado 10 Q It's a n e a rth sc ien c es jo u rn a l. I lo o k e d it 10 School to take appropriate steps to advise Bowling 11 u p . It's still -- still aro u n d . 11 Green where and how they had erred". 12 A Still going? 12 Right? 13 Q Yeah. 13 A That's what it says. 14 A Okay. 14 Q Before anyone even talked to the people who 15 Q S o, a n y w a y , th is w a s p u b lis h e d th e re in '72; 15 authored that paper, they - Johnson & Johnson 16 right? 16 instructed the Colorado School o f Mines to go tell them 17 A Yes. 17 how they had gone wrong; right? 18 Q Okay. 18 A Yes. 19 So y o u c a n -- I w o u ld se t it asid e. W e m a y 19 Q Okay. 20 reference it; okay? 20 "You will be pleased to hear that the 21 N o w , I b e t y o u c a n g u e ss Jo h n s o n & Johnson 21 Colorado m en were very successful in accomplishing the 22 becam e aw are o f this paper? 22 delicate task o f getting Bowling Green to admit they 23 A Y ou're telling m e? 23 overlooked m any scientific errors in their entire 24 Q O kay. This w ill be Exhibit 187. 24 study". 25 (Exhibit 187 m arked for identification) 25 Did I read that right? 41 (Pages 903 - 906) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 907 Page 909 1 A You did. 1 Two were graduate students: 2 Q So Johnson & Johnson sticks to the Colorado 2 "J Mancuso is on the Geology Department staff 3 School on Bowling Green with regard to this paper 3 and acted as [an] advisor for the research and the 4 pretty much; right? 4 paper". 5 A Yeah, I mean, my read o f that is that they 5 Now, have you heard o f Mancuso? 6 contacted Colorado School o f Mines and said: what do 6 A I've seen the name, yes. 7 you think about this, and would you go and talk to the 7 Q Right. 8 authors? 8 Mancuso is a pretty well respected 9 Q Okay. 9 individual, is he not? 10 A And obviously the outcome o f that was that 10 A He is, yes. 11 Bowling G reen admitted that they'd overlooked the 11 Q Okay. 12 scientific errors in their study. 12 "Snider is presently with the Michigan 13 Q Well, let's see what that exchange actually 13 Geological Survey in Mt. Pleasant, M ichigan, and 14 was. 14 Pfeiffer is a geologist for Texaco in Midland, Texas. 15 This w ill be Exhibit 188. 15 We discussed the paper with M ancuso in Bowling Green 16 (Exhibit 188 marked for identification) 16 and held telephone conversations with Snider and 17 This is the memo, o f course, because there's 17 Pfeiffer. W e made it clear to these people that the 18 always a memo. This is June 8,1973, and this is from 18 data presented in their paper could lead to very 19 Caneer, w ho is at the Colorado School o f Mines; right? 19 serious charges against the products. They readily 20 A Yeah, yes. 20 agreed that their data could easily have errors, and if 21 Q To Bill Ashton; right? 21 so it would save them m uch possible embarrassment at a 22 A Yes. 22 later date by correcting their errors now". 23 Q Okay. 23 Okay? So the Colorado School o f Mines 24 It references at the top: 24 people, at the behest o f J&J, tell the authors that 25 "A paper entitled Asbestosform Impurities in 25 their paper could lead to very serious charges against Page 908 Page 910 1 Commercial Talcum Powders", published in the January 1 the products; right? 2 1972 issue o f The Compass o f Sigma Gamma Epsilon ... 2 A Yes. 3 stated that 18 commercial talcum powders examined 3 Q Okay. 4 contained from 4% to 46% asbestiform minerals". 4 Now, we know that in 1991 Alice Blount 5 And he goes on to describe more about it; 5 published a peer reviewed paper that found a whole 6 right? 6 bunch o f asbestos in Johnson & Johnson; correct? 7 A Yes, yeah. 7 A She --she claimed to have done. 8 Q Yeah. 8 Q Okay? 9 At the bottom he says: 9 A Yes. 10 "The people involved in the investigation 10 Q And if you look at the very next page, there's 11 were W T Caneer a n d ... Jerry Krause o f the Research 11 a table. Sample num ber 2 is who? 12 Institute and D r M aynard Slaughter o f the Colorado 12 A Sample number 2 is stated as J&J Baby Powder. 13 School o f Mines". 13 Q Right. That's Johnson & Johnson Baby Powder; 14 So Johnson & Johnson instructs these guys to 14 right? 15 go talk to the Bowling Green researchers; right? 15 A It is, yes. 16 A Yes. 16 Q And it says the quoted per cent o f asbestiform 17 Q And C olorado School o f Mines sends three people 17 minerals is how much? 18 to Bowling Green; right? 18 A It states 8. 19 A Yes. 19 Q 8 per cent. Okay. 20 Q All right. 20 So staying on that page, on num ber 7: 21 So first let's go to - go to page 4, please, 21 "They admitted they probably made many errors 22 Discussions with the Authors: 22 in conducting the project and seem[ed] anxious to 23 "O f the three authors, two were [written by] 24 graduate students (Snider and Pfeiffer) at the time the 23 rectify them before there is a possible accounting with 24 the FDA or some other agency". 25 paper was written". 25 So, basically, it was -- it was stated in 42 (Pages 907 - 910) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 911 Page 913 1 some way to these guys that there would be serious 1 minerals in their source ore and their talc; correct? 2 charges based on their paper and that there could be a 2 A W e've --we've -- you've shown results w hich 3 possible accounting with the FDA or some other agency; 3 indicated that. 4 right? 4 Q Right. 5 A Yes, although it doesn't state as to whom would 5 They also had microscopic results showing 6 be accounting with the FDA. 6 asbestiform minerals in their talc; correct? 7 The FDA could well be challenging the Bowling 7 A Well, you've shown results that indicated that. 8 Green group as to the validity o f their results. 8 Q Right. 9 Q I think that's very much what is being implied 9 I mean, we could just throw one out there: 10 here; right? 10 the M cCrone study having to do with 108T and 109T; 11 A Yeah. 11 right? Remember that one? 12 Q Is that the Colorado School o f Mines tells 12 A Yes, but that McCrone study, to my 13 them, "Hey, the FDA is going to come challenge you". 13 recollection, was later rereviewed with a different set 14 Right? 14 o f results. 13 A Yes. 15 Q Right. 16 Q Okay. 16 Well, the results where they simply pulled 17 And then if you turn the page to the last 17 the percentages out; right? 18 bit, it says: 18 A Okay. 19 "They apparently will not stand behind the 19 Q You remember that; right? 20 data presented in the paper if they are pressed to do 20 A I remember that, yes. 21 so. I also believe that they w ill retract the data 21 Q Okay. 22 after we present them our data and after they have had 22 Up to this point, since the '50s, they've 23 tim e to do some checking on their own". 23 been finding tremolite, which is an asbestos mineral, 24 Right? 24 in the source talc for Italian and Vermont; correct? 25 A Yes. 25 A It -- it is a possible asbestos material, but Page 912 Page 914 1 Q Now, so Johnson & Johnson sends Colorado Schoo ; 1 the majority o f tremolite that exists is in the 2 o f Mines to basically go, and I'm going to use the word 2 non-asbestosform. 3 "intimidate"; okay? 3 Q I understand. You've said that as a general 4 A Well, you can use the word. 4 point. 5 Q These people. I'm going to use it and ask if 5 A Yes. 6 you agree with it? 6 Q But we have - we have a board full o f results 7 A Yeah. 7 through 1973, sir, and does M r Caneer for the Colorado 8 Q Okay? 8 School o f Mines mention anywhere here that: by the way, 9 A I don't agree with it, but you can use the 9 we may not agree with your percentages, but Johnson & 10 word. 10 Johnson actually has some results that are consistent 11 Q All right. So you don't agree with it? 11 w ith w hat you said in your paper? 12 A No. 12 Did they do that? 13 Q They say that serious charges m ight be brought 13 A Not in this letter it doesn't say that, no. 14 against them; right? 14 But what they do say is that the Bowling 15 A It states that. 15 Green group spent an inadequate amount o f time and havi 16 Q And that there could be an accounting with the 16 admitted to making errors relative to the 17 FDA or some other agency; right? 17 identification and amount o f asbestiform minerals. 18 A Well, that's w hat it says in the letter. 18 They will not stand behind the data presented. 19 Q Okay. 19 Q W as the --well, they said once Colorado School 20 Now, they were using XRD and microscopic 20 o f Mines showed them some o f their stuff; right? 21 techniques to look for asbestiform m inerals in consum er 21 A It doesn't say showed them some o f their stuff. 22 talcs, including J&J; right? 22 You know, when scientists sit down together 23 A That's what it states, yes. 23 and talk about things, they usually do so on a pretty 24 Q As o f this date, June 8,1973, Johnson & 24 one-to-one guy basis. It's not a case o f going in 25 Johnson already had XRD results showing asbestiform 25 there, you know, hitting them with a club hammer. 43 (Pages 911 -914) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 915 Page 917 1 It's a case o f let's talk about this. W hat 1 A Yes. 2 did you do? How did you do it? Oh, you used two 2 Q Okay. 3 graduate students. Let's look at what you did and how 3 Go ahead and turn the --turn the page to the 4 you did it. 4 Introduction: 5 That would be my interpretation o f what went 5 "This report summarises the current status of 6 on. 6 w ork being carried out on talc in the UK as far as is 7 Q Okay. 7 known. The report has been split into three sections: 8 A I'm not suggesting they went in and beat them 8 [Section] a) Bodies known to J&J and with 9 up. 9 whom J&J have contact but no direct influence. 10 Q Well, that's your interpretation in light o f 10 b) Individuals who are undertaking discrete 11 the fact that they told them very serious charges 11 studies". 12 against the products could be levied, and that -- and 12 And: 13 that there could be a possible accounting with the FDA 13 c) Bodies undertaking work sponsored by 14 or some other agency. 14 J&J". 15 That's your read o f it? 15 Right? 16 A Yeah. 16 A Yes. 17 Q Okay. 17 Q Okay. 18 A But that doesn't mean it's done in an 18 It says here under the highlight: 19 aggressive way. 19 "The num ber o f groups examining talc is 20 Q Okay. 20 disturbing as it still appears to be an essentially 21 A It could be done as a one-offline. 21 uncoordinated exercise". 22 You know, the FDA might be interested. Would 22 So this is the second document we've looked 23 you stand in front o f the FDA and present your results? 23 at this m orning about Johnson & Johnson being disturbed 24 Q But my question to you was: did Colorado School 24 by research on talc; right? 25 o f Mines guys, w ho w ent and dealt w ith the --w ith Dr 25 A Well, they're disturbed because it's Page 916 Page 918 1 Mancuso --did they mention in their report that they 1 essentially uncoordinated. 2 told Bowling Green, "Hey, we've actually had results 2 Q Well, they would like to have some control over 3 that are consistent with what you reported"? 3 it; right? 4 A That's not reported in this letter. 4 A I think w hat they're saying is there's some -- 5 Q Okay. 5 there's probably a need to have some coordination. 6 A No. 6 Q Okay. That's your read o f it? 7 Q Right. Okay. 7 A Yeah. 8 That was Krause, Caneer and who from Colorado 8 Q Okay. 9 School o f Mines? 9 A They use that word. 10 I think it's the author, whoever the author 10 Q Sure. 11 is? 11 It doesn't mean coordinated through them. 12 A Maynard Slaughter. 12 That's how I read it. 13 Q Okay. Right. Okay. So three guys; right? 13 Would you agree? 14 A Yeah. 14 A Could well be - could be coordinated through 15 Q And Krause was one o f them; right? 15 D r Pooley. 16 A Yes. 16 Q Okay. 17 Q All right. This w ill be Exhibit 189. 17 A I mean, the key thing in science is it's 18 (Exhibit 189 marked for identification) 18 expensive and it's a misuse o f resources if two people 19 There you go, sir. 19 are doing an identical program. 20 Confidential, Talc --U K W ork Status, 1.6.73. 20 Q All right. Well, we'll see how they really put 21 It's by IW Sloan, it's to a number o f people, 21 it. 22 but the ones we know and are familiar with are Dr 22 Go ahead and go to the page at the bottom 23 Nashed, Hildick-Smith, Shelley, Fuller and Dean; right? 23 Bates 5087. Okay? 24 A Yes. 24 You can see there's section 1.1.6., 25 Q As well as some others; true? 25 Examination o f all "Talc" Imported to the UK. 44 (Pages 915 - 918) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 919 Page 921 1 Do you see that? 1 Q Okay. 2 A Yes. 2 And they're talking about something called 3 Q Okay. 3 Plessey Ltd Research, and there's an individual named 4 And if you go down towards the bottom, second 4 Mr GV Smith; right? 5 paragraph, it says: 5 A Yes. 6 "Dr Pooley is currently using a new 6 Q And this is the Allen Clark Research 7 concentration technique for amphiboles ..." 7 Laboratory. W e did see that earlier; right? 8 Which we're familiar with; right? 8 A Okay. 9 A Correct. 9 Q Okay? 10 Q "... w hich he has developed to re-evaluate all 10 A I didn't know that. 11 these samples. Italian 00000 grade, the first examined 11 Q Okay. 12 w ith the new technique w as amphibole free". 12 Background: 13 And then in handwriting it says: 13 "Mr Henderson ([the] Tenovus Research 14 "Actinolite in Verm ont --very little bit -- 14 Institute) in his original paper on Talc and Carcinoma 15 pick up by concentrating". 15 o f the Ovary and Cervix based his identification o f the 16 Right? 16 particles w hich he claims to have found on the 'typical 17 A That's what it states. 17 surface decoration pattern'. In preparation --[in] 18 Q So they're saying there is actinolite in 18 preparing replicas for examination under the electron 19 Vermont; right? 19 m icroscope the particle is shadowed with platinum 20 A Well, somebody's written that, yes. 20 deposited under vacuum. M r Henderson claimed that this 21 Q Okay. 21 pattern w as specific to talc and anthophyllite only". 22 Please turn to the page, at the bottom it's 22 So they're talking about the Tenovus 23 5095. 23 research, which we talked about I think two days ago? 24 Actually, go back a page because then we'll 24 A Yes. 25 know w hat w e're talking about. It's section 5., the 25 Q Which was some work that was being done on Page 920 Page 922 1 Toilet Preparations Federation. 1 ovaries to see if there was talc and/or asbestos in 2 Right? 2 them; right? 3 A Yes. 3 A Talc. From my recollection, the report was 4 Q Who is the Toilet Preparations Federation? 4 ju st talc, b u t ... 5 A Ifs the equivalent o f CTFA. 5 Q Langer, in '71 or '72, said he had looked at 6 Q Right. You told me that yesterday. 6 those samples and saw talc and chrysotile. 7 A Yes. 7 Do you remember that memo? That was from our 8 Q Go ahead and turn the page. 8 first day? 9 Under Implications, it says: 9 A Yes, I remember the memo. 10 "Work would be undertaken by the Industry as 10 Q Okay. 11 a whole, represented by the TPF. This undoubtedly 11 A Yes. 12 withdraws Johnson & Johnson further from the limelight 12 Q Okay. All right. All right. Go to the next 13 and this is certainly desirable. W ith our knowledge, 13 page. 14 consultant back up and resources, w e shall be able to 14 So implications o f this work funded by 15 m aterially influence any w ork undertaken". 15 Johnson & Johnson; right? 16 Did I read that right? 16 "This work discredits even further 17 A You did. 17 M r Henderson's paper in that the very basis o f 18 Q Okay. 18 Henderson's identification o f ... particles has been 19 Let's go to the next page. Actually, the 19 disproved. The particles seen by Henderson can 20 next one is 5099, or 5098, I'm sorry. 20 therefore be said only to contain Magnesium and 21 This is section c) from the front page, which 21 Silicon, i.e., a magnesium silicate". 22 was Bodies undertaking work sponsored by J&J? 22 And thusly not talc; correct? 23 A Okay. 23 A Yes. 24 Q Right. Do you see that? 24 Q Okay. 25 A Yes. 25 So they're talking about discrediting 45 (Pages 919 - 922) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 923 Page 925 1 another --another researcher; right? 1 A Yes. 2 A Well, they use the word "discredit". 2 Q --do you know whether or not that was -- paper 3 Q Yeah. 3 was ever withdrawn? 4 A But what they're saying is that his results 4 A Well, in science you don't withdraw a paper. 5 were not confirmed and not at that point valid. 5 You send a --usually a letter to the editor. 6 Q By their sponsored work; right? 6 Q Okay. 7 A By the laboratory that was doing the work, 7 A And I've seen m any o f those, as a small, you 8 yeah. 8 know, three paragraphs, two paragraphs. 9 Q They sponsored work, which they then used in 9 That's not unusual. 10 aim to discredit M r Henderson's w ork; correct? 10 Q Have you ever seen that for that paper? 11 A They - they sponsored w ork which -- the aim o f 11 A I've not, but there again, I hadn't actually 12 which, as w ith so m uch in research, is to seek the 12 seen the original. 13 truth, to get to the bottom o f things and find the 13 Q Until today? 14 truth. 14 A Until, yes, as I recollect, I don't recollect 15 What they found was a result which clearly 15 seeing it until today. 16 disproved the w ork that Henderson, w ho --you know, he 16 Q Okay. 17 was a specialist in a certain area, particularly 17 By the way, Dr Langer and Dr Rolle in 1976, 18 histology, but by using scanning m icroscopy with 18 they authored a paper about asbestos in consumer 19 platinum shadowing, that is very sophisticated. 19 talcums; correct? 20 Plessey Laboratories was an electronics 20 A They did, yes. 21 company who got a great deal o f expertise in 21 Q Right. 22 manufacturing new instruments, leading edge 22 Basically, following very similar protocol, 23 instruments. So they w ould have expertise that other 23 they pulled I think 19 or 20 o ff the shelves -- 24 people would not have. They wouldn't even be 24 A Yeah, yeah. 25 commercial necessarily at that point. 25 Q --and did analysis o f those and they found Page 924 Page 926 1 (Reporter clarification) 1 asbestos in a lot o f them; right? 2 They would not necessarily be commercialized 2 A They claimed to, yes. 3 at that point. If the Plessey Research Labs were doing 3 Q Okay. 4 sophisticated work and that work disproved the work 4 A But I also seem to recollect that Dr Langer 5 that Henderson had done, that was aim --as we aim to 5 wrote a letter to New York Times saying that there'd 6 seek the truth. 6 been some errors. 7 W e're m oving towards to leam more about it. 7 Q I think you're thinking about '71, which we 8 Q All right. 8 already talked about, where Mount Sinai found between 5 9 So I appreciate all you have to offer on the 9 and 25 per cent in some consumer talcums? 10 scientific process, but m y question was: this was 10 A Yeah. 11 research funded by J&J; right? 11 Q Is that what you're thinking about? 12 A Correct. 12 A It could be. 13 Q And the result is, in their own words, they can 13 Q Okay. 14 discredit --they can discredit further M r Henderson's 14 A But what I'm saying is there are -- there are 15 paper; right? 15 m echanisms for correcting the record. 16 A Yeah. 16 Q If you're going to officially correct a 17 Q That's what they say? 17 scientific study, you write the journal where it was 18 A Yeah, I mean, the results -- the work -- 18 published? 19 discredit M r Henderson's paper. 19 A You would normally do that, yes. 20 Q Yeah. Okay. 20 Q Okay. All right. 21 A Yeah. 21 Here's Exhibit 190. 22 Q You can set that aside. 22 (Exhibit 190 marked for identification) 23 Now, let me ask you, the Colorado School of 23 This is from 1973. You can see that at the 24 Mines paper, or not the Colorado School o f Mines paper, 24 top; right? 25 the Bowling Green paper we talked about earlier -- 25 A Yes. 46 (Pages 923 - 926) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 927 Page 929 1 Q It's typed up by Ashton? 1 W hat does -- what does that mean? 2 A Yes. 2 A I don't know. I wouldn't even dream to guess. 3 Q Right, and it's Happenings o f the w eek o f 3 Q Okay. 4 October 8, FDA Lewin Report: 4 "Italian broker thinks wide coverage o f Lewin 5 "BABY POW DER clean; S[hower] to S[hower] 5 splash coincident with Rabino visit could make Rabino 6 question mark; M[edicated] P[owder] trace tremolite. 6 scary". 7 Notice about report in pink sheet. Situation expected 7 What does that mean? 8 to hit press during next 5 days". 8 A Again, it's ju st speculative comment. 9 So they're monitoring what they know is 9 It's not something that --I don't know what 10 coming on Lewin; right? 10 the Italian talc broker was thinking or what his 11 A Yes. 11 opinion is. It's --it's not something that I can 12 Q Shower to shower, w e know that ultim ately Lewin 12 honestly comm ent on. 13 said there was asbestos in it and McCrone did; right? 13 Q Okay. 14 A Yes. Lewin did say that, yes. 14 Johns Manville, down at the bottom: 15 Q And so did McCrone; correct? 15 "ASBESTOS in our talcs. 16 A Yes. 16 Lemar thinks his people now cooled o ff due to 17 Q M edicated Pow der w e know had that additive that 17 possible m isinterpretation o f trace minerals. I have 18 they were finding chrysotile in; correct? 18 authorized Colorado to help JM out o f their pitfalls". 19 A M edicated Pow der had sodium sesqui citrate that 19 Right? 20 could be confused with chrysotile. 20 A Yeah. 21 Q W ell, okay, w e m ight go back and look at them. 21 Q Okay, and we talked about that yesterday? 22 I think we've already talked about it, but there was an 22 A We did indeed, yes. 23 additive to the M edicated Powder, which w as c a lle d ... 23 Q Right. 24 A Was that the boric acid, or the sodium sesqui 24 And JM started to get into something that J&J 25 citrate? 25 wasn't too keen on; right? Page 928 Page 930 1 Q No, it was neither. It was - it was from 1 A Yeah, JM were looking at a totally different 2 Johns M anville. It was called [something] sell. 2 talc, which is not a cosmetic talc. 3 I'll find it. We'll come back to that. 3 Q Well, they were looking at using the 4 Italian Talc Matters: 4 concentration method that had a higher level of 5 "RUBINO visit postponed to coming week". 5 sensitivity; right? 6 So they're talking about visiting Rubino; 6 A Yes. 7 right? 7 Q Okay. You can set that aside. 8 A Yes. 8 This will be -- are we 206? No. 9 Q So he's the guy that ultimately publishes a 9 A That was 190. 10 paper on the Italian miners; right? 10 Q Here it is. I got it, sorry. 191. 11 A Yes. 11 (Exhibit 191 marked for identification) 12 Q "Hildick-S[mith] now aware o f moving with 12 M R GAFFREY: Excuse me, 198 that went before, 13 dispatch since possibility J M ..." 13 w hat w as the date o f that? 14 That's Johns Manville? 14 M R PANATIER: Which one? 15 A It could be. 15 M R GAFFREY: 198 - I'm sorry, 189, the 16 Q Okay. 16 U nited Kingdom W ork Status Report? 17 A It's a guess. 17 THE W ITNESS: It says 1.6.73, but in British 18 Q "... JM could move into the situation if we 18 English, that's 1 June, '73. 19 dillydally". 19 MR GAFFREY: Okay. Thank you. 20 Right? That means we kind o f -- 20 BY MR PANATIER: 21 A Delay. 21 Q All right. Here you go, sir. This is 191. 22 Q Delay. Right. 22 Here you go. 23 "... Hildick not keen on idea to use Dr 23 Okay, sir, this is by Petterson. 24 Stefano as a professional filter on stu d y ... maybe he 24 A Yes. 25 is right". 25 Q October 26,1973. Subject, Epidemiological 47 (Pages 927 - 930) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 931 Page 933 1 Study o f Workers in Italian Talc Mines: 1 Q And here we have, on October 26,1973: 2 "Pete, I have read your note o f October 18th. 2 "I think it important that we originate this 3 There is no question b u t ... we should go forward and 3 study and therefore control the work". 4 as rapidly as possible. 4 That would be an example, using your own 5 My questions are on m inor items: 5 words, o f undue influence; correct? 6 1. I think it important that w e originate 6 A Well, if we were to take it literally, yes. 7 this study and therefore control the work". 7 But the word "control" here can have many 8 Did I read that right? 8 different meanings. It could also mean coordinate or 9 A Well, that was his opinion, so you --and 9 have a relationship with. 10 that's w hat you read. 10 Quite frankly, I don't think you could ever 11 Q Right? 11 control the Italians. 12 A Yes. 12 Q All right. Okay. 13 Q "Having the MRC group involved would be an 13 So "control" can have lots o f different 14 error at this point". 14 meanings is your answer? 15 Right? 15 A Yes. 16 A Yes. 16 Q Okay. You can set that aside, sir. 17 Q So they're saying: we should sponsor the talc 17 Keep hold o f your transcript, there. 18 study o f the miners and control the work; right? 18 Okay. N ext will be --this w ill be Exhibit 19 A Well, I don't see the word "sponsor". I don't 19 192. 20 see the word -- yeah, I don't see the word "sponsor", 20 (Exhibit 192 m arked for identification) 21 yeah. 21 There you go. December 12,1973. This is 22 Q W e'll get there. 22 from Hildick-Smith to Petterson, and the subject is 23 A Yeah. 23 again the Epidemiological Study o f Italian Talc Mine: 24 Q But they're saying: we should originate the 24 "On the 26th o f November, 1973, a meeting was 25 study and therefore control the work; right? 25 held with Professor Rubino, Director, Institute of Page 932 Page 934 1 A That's what is stated. 1 Industrial Medicine, University o f Turin to discuss the 2 Q Now, on Monday, I asked you some questions 2 epidemiological study he is willing to conduct on the 3 about what might be undue influence in scientific 3 miners o f a talc mine from which J&J in England 4 research. Do you recall that? 4 obtained their talc for commercial distribution". 5 A Yes. 5 Right? 6 Q Okay. 6 A Yes. 7 A nd this is from that transcript. This is 7 Q So now they're going to Italy to meet with 8 page 108 through 111 o f that transcript. 8 Rubino; right? 9 If you look there, I asked you this question: 9 A Yes. 10 "Undue influence would be what?" 10 Q Before the study is even started; right? 11 And you said: 11 A Yes. 12 "Undue influence would be visitations to the 12 Q Okay. 13 laboratory, looking at the results and saying, 'Do you 13 Then go to the last paragraph: 14 really m ean this?"' 14 "Professor Rubino intends to have reviewed 15 Now , w e saw Colorado School o f M ines do that 15 all the records o f employees in the mining company 16 w ith Snider and Mancuso; right? 16 books in the next month and aims to have all the data 17 A Well, they did visit that particular group. 17 on the cause o f death o f the m iners by July, 1974. He 18 Q All right. 18 will subm it a protocol for the study along with its 19 A Yes. 19 cost (estimated) and tim e o f completion. The protocol 20 Q And I said: 20 for the study will be reviewed by epidemiological 21 "Trying to control it?" 21 experts in this country to insure the procurement o f 22 And you said: 22 optimum data". 23 "Trying to control it, yeah". 23 Did I read that right? 24 Right? 24 A You did. 25 A Yes. 25 Q So this researcher is going to submit his 48 (Pages 931 - 934) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 935 Page 937 1 protocol to Johnson & Johnson first; right? 1 Now, they're having another meeting with him; 2 A Yes. 2 right? 3 Q And then Johnson & Johnson is going to have it 3 A Yes. 4 reviewed by other experts in the U S --well actually -- 4 Q And they're having a meeting with Stefano - 5 A Epidemiological experts. 5 and they're having a meeting with Stefano, who we know 6 Q Right. 6 controls all the talc exports o f the Italian talc to 7 He said in this country and Gavin 7 the US; correct? 8 Hildick-Smith at this time was where? In the US or was 8 A Yes. 9 he in Great Britain? 9 Q Okay. Let's pause and get the phone guys back 10 A He was in the US, yeah. 10 on. 11 Q In the US? 11 (O ff the record at 2:09 pm) 12 A Yeah. 12 (On the record at 2:11 pm) 13 Q Okay? 13 BY M R PANATIER: 14 A Yes, yeah. 14 Q So this is now another meeting where Johnson & 15 And, you know, that's not unusual. 15 Johnson is m eeting w ith Rubino and Stefano; right? 16 Q Well, I haven't asked you a question yet. 16 A Yes. 17 A Okay. 17 Q A nd Stefano --well, he's a doctor. He, 18 Q Okay? 18 apparently, according to the previous memo, controls 19 I'm only asking you w hat they're going to do, 19 the exports o f the Italian talc to the US; right? 20 which is, one, they have now met with Rubino; right? 20 A Yes. 21 A Yes. 21 Q Okay. 22 Q Two, they are talking about paying for it; 22 "Dr Stefano is not an employee o f the mine 23 right? He's going to give them the cost? 23 but acts as a medical consultant to Mrs Villa who is 24 A Yes. 24 the owner o f the mine, and he visits the company head 25 Q Right? 25 quarters once a month to act as a consultant. It was Page 936 Page 938 1 They -- he is going to provide them with the 1 he who interested Professor Rubino in the conduct o f an 2 protocol for it; right? 2 epidemiological study". 3 A Yes. 3 Did I read that right? 4 Q They're going to have it reviewed by 4 A You did. 5 epidemiological experts that they take it to; right? 5 Q Okay. 6 A Yes. 6 Go ahead and go to the second page: 7 Q To ensure the procurement o f optimum data; 7 "Dr Stefano is fully acquainted with the work 8 right? 8 o f Professor Rubino and will be acting as a monitor of 9 A Yes. 9 it and keep us informed o f the progress". 10 Q And somebody underlined "optimum"; right? 10 Did I read that right? 11 A Yes. 11 A Yeah. 12 Q Okay. 12 Q So the guy who controls the Italian exports is 13 Right, sir. You can set that aside. 13 going to serve as a m onitor for the researcher; right? 14 This w ill be Exhibit 193. 14 A Yes, although we haven't defined "monitor". 15 (Exhibit 193 marked for identification) 15 Q Well, we haven't defined "monitor", but what he 16 Now , this is February 14, '74. The subject 16 says is he's going to be basically be m onitoring Rubino 17 is the Italian study; right? 17 and then keep Johnson & Johnson informed o f the 18 A Yes. 18 progress o f the study; right? 19 Q Okay: 19 A Yes. 20 "On Saturday, February 9,1974, a meeting was 20 Q Okay. You can set that aside. 21 held w ith P rofessor... Rubino, Director, Institute o f 21 Does Rubino sound super-independent right 22 Industrial Medicines, U niversity o f Turin, a n d ... 22 now, as a researcher? 23 Umberto Stefano to review the status o f the 23 A I don't see why not. 24 epidemiological study being conducted by Professor 24 If Stefano is, as you use the word, 25 Rubino on the miners at the talc mine in Pinorolo". 25 "monitor", the word "monitor" can mean many different 49 (Pages 935 - 938) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 939 Page 941 1 things. 1 originally requested for him to explore. Accordingly, 2 It could equally mean someone who just 2 I plan to make immediate arrangements for $1,500 to be 3 coordinates and keeps in touch and keeps an eye on 3 credited to one o f Stefano's accounts here in the 4 things. It can have many different meanings. 4 States through his friends at Chas Mathieu & Co as a 5 Q All right. 5 partial honorarium for his services in the entire 6 M ay 14,1974. This is Exhibit 194. 6 matter". 7 (Exhibit 194 marked for identification) 7 Right? 8 A Yeah. 8 A Yes. 9 Q Ashton to Hildick-Smith, again having to do 9 Q So they're going to pay Stefano, too; right? 10 with (he Italian study; right? 10 A He's obviously medically qualified and 11 A Yes. 11 obviously has an input into the conduct o f the study. 12 Q "Dr Stefano has just advised us through Chas 12 Q He does. Is he listed as an author on the 13 Mathieu & Co that Professor Rubino is in need o f 13 study? 14 immediate m oney to continue the studies which you have 14 A I don't know. I can't remember. 15 in progress". 15 But he certainly was obviously involved. His 16 So it's very clear the money is coming from 16 m edical expert is being involved. 17 Johnson & Johnson; right? 17 Q Okay. We'll get to the study itself. 18 A It was obviously -- they're involved in 18 All right. You can set that aside, sir. 19 sponsoring. 19 By the way, on Tuesday I asked you, and this 20 Q Right. 20 is on the next page there o f your transcript, but I 21 A W hether it's full or part payment. 21 asked you: 22 Q Okay. 22 "Would Johnson & Johnson ever fund scientific 23 A Yeah. 23 research so that they could control it?" 24 Q "Neither D r Stefano or Rubino is clear on 24 And your answer was: 25 whether or not a payment has been in transit since your 25 "I hope not. I'm not aware that that has Page 940 Page 942 1 last visit there with them a few weeks ago. If not, 1 ever occurred". 2 then a payment should proceed without delay and I 2 Now, Johnson & Johnson, in their own words, 3 gather another $12,500 is in order". 3 said they wanted to originate the Rubino study so they 4 That's in '74 dollars. I mean, that's real 4 could control it; correct? 5 money; right? 5 A Well, that's what's written in a letter. 6 A Yeah, although, let's be real, it is quite 6 Q Right. 7 expensive to pay secretarial and monitoring assistants 7 A W hether it means control the outcome or just 8 to look at 1,600 records, go through them in detail, 8 coordinate the conduct to ensure that you've got the 9 read them, summarize them. 9 best data that was available. 10 There's - there's quite a lot o f work 10 Q Okay. 11 involved. 11 We need to take a quick break so we can prep 12 Q N o one is talking about how m uch w ork there is. 12 this one out. 13 A Yeah. 13 (O ff the record at 2:16 pm) 14 Q I was just asking you whether or not that was a 14 (On the record at 2:24 pm) 15 good deal o f money? 15 BY M R PANATIER: 16 A It sounds -- it's a good deal o f money, but -- 16 Q All right, sir. If you'll look at your 17 Q Okay. 17 testim ony from two days ago on page - looks like it's 18 A --it's a good deal o f work. 18 109, line 10 up at the top: 19 Q Okay. No one is disputing how m uch w ork there 19 "And what about sending a letter to the 20 is. 20 researcher saying, 'Here's the results we w ould like'"? 21 Next highlight: 21 And you said: 22 "Since Rubino has approached Stefano on this 22 "That would be unprofessional". 23 money m atter, it becomes essential that D r Stefano be 23 And I said: 24 awarded a partial honorarium for his current medical 24 "Okay. 25 surveillance and the background range findings I 25 It would be improper to exert influence on 50 (Pages 939 - 942) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 943 Page 945 1 the direction of the scientific study; correct?" 1 rural control group". 2 You said; 2 So they've stated the result they want? 3 "Yes". 3 A No, w hat they've stated is that: we know you're 4 "It would be improper to exert influence on a 4 going to present to a scientific meeting, and when you 5 scientific study to try and shape the results; 5 do present to a scientific meeting, and I've certainly 6 correct?" 6 done a few o f those, you get a very limited time slot. 7 Your answer was; 7 It could be 10, 15 m inutes at most. 8 "Yes". 8 So I think what they're saying is that in 9 Right? 9 your 10,15 minute tim e slot, this is the --this is 10 A Yes. 10 die kind o f data that's going to be m ost important. 11 Q Okay. 11 They could well have --I'm pretty sure they 12 This is Exhibit 195. 12 did --they looked at quantity o f dust exposure over 13 (Exhibit 195 marked for identification) 13 time, various other things that would no doubt come out 14 This is a letter from Gavin Hildick-Smith of 14 o f the study. 15 Johnson & Johnson to Professor Rubino, June 26,1974; 15 But they're saying in the ten, 15 minute time 16 right? 16 slot, this is the kind o f thing that would be most 17 A Yes. 17 interesting. 18 Q "Dear Professor Rubino: 18 They're giving a little bit o f opinion as to 19 I was pleased to be able to talk to you and 19 w here the scientific m eeting would get the most 20 learn that you will be submitting to me in the next few 20 benefit. 21 weeks the raw data that you have obtained in reviewing 21 Q Sir, they're not saying: here's what we think 22 approximately 75% of the mine workers and millers whose 22 is most interesting. 23 cause of death you are studying". 23 They said: 24 So, first of all, Johnson & Johnson is -- 24 "... we w ould be m ost interested in having 25 before the study is done or even written, they're 25 ..." Page 944 Page 946 1 looking at the raw data; right? 1 So what they want presented; right? 2 A Yes. 2 A Yes. 3 Q Okay. 3 Q Okay. 4 Then the next highlight: 4 And they state the result; correct? 5 "The data that I think w e w ould [most] b e ... 5 "... a t ... [the] m eeting w ould relate to the 6 interested in having presented at that m ee tin g ..." 6 cause o f death o f the miners and millers ..." 7 Because he's talking about when you have the 7 Now, if you stopped there, right --"we want 8 data you're going to present it; right? 8 data presented on the cause o f death o f the miners and 9 A Correct. 9 millers" --it doesn't tell the researcher what the 10 Q "... w ould relate to the cause o f death o f the 10 conclusion about the cause o f death is; correct? 11 miners and m illers w hich w ould show that the incidence 11 Answer that question first. 12 o f cancer in these subjects is no different from that 12 A This letter not does. 13 o f the Italian population or the rural control group. 13 Q Okay. 14 W e would like to have these data form ally presented and 14 "... which would show that the incidence o f 15 also have the data published in a suitable journal". 15 cancer in these subjects is no different from that o f 16 Right? 16 the Italian population or the rural control group". 17 A Yes. 17 The data hasn't even been processed yet; 18 Q So before the data has even been completely 18 correct, sir? 19 gathered, before the paper is written, before the 19 A That we don't know. There may have been verbal 20 person even publishes it, Johnson & Johnson says: 20 communication that indicated that the outcome was going 21 "... I think w e w ould be m ost interested in 21 to be exactly as you've described. 22 having presented at that meeting would relate to the 22 Q Well, sir, he said up top, that he has - he 23 cause o f death o f the m iners and millers w hich would 23 said: 24 show that the incidence o f cancer in these subjects is 24 "I was pleased to be able to talk to you and 25 no different from that o f the Italian population or the 25 learn that you will be submitting to me in the next few 51 (Pages 943 - 946) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 947 1 weeks the raw data that you have obtained in reviewing 1 2 approximately 75% of the mine workers and millers whose 2 3 cause of death you are studying". 3 4 A Yes. 4 5 Q So they haven't even finished reviewing the raw 5 6 data; correct? 6 7 A No, what he's saying is that: I spoke to you, 7 S either on the phone or whatever, and you've told me 8 9 you've done 75 per cent of the data. 9 10 It could well be that that 75 per cent showed 10 11 what they were looking for was, i.e., there's no 11 12 relationship between incidence of cancer in -- in the 12 13 exposed miners, and that it was no different from rural 13 14 control groups. 14 15 Q If they already knew what the result was, which 15 16 is a hypothesis you're putting out there, based on them 16 17 looking at only 75 per cent of the data, they still 17 18 felt the need to say what they wanted the conclusion to 18 19 be; right? 19 20 Even though, under your hypothesis, perhaps 20 21 they already knew it; right? 21 22 A Yeah. I mean, they don't actually use the word 22 23 "conclusion". 23 24 What you're saying is: in your ten minute 24 25 time slot, this is the kind of thing to focus on. 25 Page 948 1 Q Does this -- where - - 1have a red marker. 1 2 Can you please circle, and I might have 2 3 missed it, where it says; you have a ten minute time 3 4 slot, and so just talk about this issue? 4 5 A No, I can't circulate [sic] a ten minute time 5 6 slot. 6 7 What I did say is that I personally have 7 8 presented at symposia and very often you have a ten or 8 9 15 m inutes tim e slot. 9 10 So I was hypothesizing that if you do have a 10 11 ten or 15 minute tim e slot, focus on some o f the key 11 12 points. 12 13 It's a hypothesis. I was postulating. 13 14 Q Okay. 14 15 Sir, it doesn't say that, and it doesn't say: 15 16 just focus on some o f the key points. 16 17 They state the conclusion that they desire; 17 18 that the data w ould show the incidence o f cancer in 18 19 these subjects is no different from that o f the Italian 19 20 population or rural control group. 20 21 That is the conclusion; correct? 21 22 A They don't use the word "conclusion". 22 23 The sentence actually reads: 23 24 "The data that I th in k ... would be the m ost 24 25 ... [interesting] in having presented w ould relate to 25 Page 949 the cause o f death ..." Q Wait. No, no, no. Start over, because that's not what it says. They don't say what is most interesting. They say -- they say: "The data that I think we would be most interested in having p resen ted ..." Right? A That is what's read, yes. Q "... at that m eeting would relate to the cause o f death o f the miners and millers which would show that the incidence o f cancer in these subjects is no different from that o f the Italian population or the rural control group". First question: did I read that right? A You read that correctly. Q So we're on the same page as to what it says; right? A We are indeed, yes. Q Now, if a study shows that a working population's incidence o f cancer is no different than a control group with no exposure to whatever the subject dust or agent is, then you get to say: there's no increased incidence o f cancer in the exposed population; correct? Page 950 A Correct, yes. Q Okay. All right. You can set that aside. T hat was a letter from Johnson & Johnson to Rubino; correct? A Yes. Q Okay. Is Johnson & Johnson credited as an author on that paper? A No. Q This w ill be Exhibit 196. (Exhibit 196 marked for identification) All right. You can see this is a letter from Mr Ferry. We've seen reference to him; right? A Yes. Q He's the fellow who controls the imports of the Italian talc; right? A Yes. Q And it's to Bill Ashton at Johnson & Johnson; right? A Yes. Q It says: "Dear B ill..." And this is August 28, '74: "Dear Bill: I am happy to report that I have recently 52 (Pages 947 - 950) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 951 Page 953 1 heard from D r Stefano that the epidemiological study 1 and Graphite in] Val Chesone, would be most in order at 2 being conducted by Professor Rubino at Turin, Italy is 2 that time and would be m ost appreciated by them". 3 now in the final stages o f preparations. All 3 Did I read that right? 4 indications are that the report will be an excellent 4 A You did. 5 one and be most helpful in proving our contention of 5 Q Now, if you look at the handwriting, I'm going 6 the lack o f hazard in the manufacturing use o f talc". 6 to do some more handwriting translation for us; okay? 7 Did I read that right? 7 You tell me if you --if you agree with the 8 A You did. 8 highlighted part? 9 Q So he's -- he's been given indications by 9 "J&J will orchestrate Professor Rubino's 10 either Rubino or Stefano as to w hat the conclusions 10 reporting and presentations"? 11 are; right? 11 A Yeah. 12 A Yes. 12 Q Okay? 13 Q Okay. 13 A I think that's w hat it m ay say, yeah. 14 Now, he says that: 14 Q So Johnson & Johnson is going to orchestrate 15 "I believe that the time has now come when we 15 the actual researcher, his presentations and his 16 should begin to review in depth w hat plans Johnson and 16 reporting; correct? 17 Johnson has in the release o f this information to the 17 A Yeah. 18 scientific world. In connection w ith this, I think 18 Q Okay. 19 that it is m ost important to coordinate the release o f 19 A And, you know, again, you're dealing with a 20 any information o f the study with the people in Italy. 20 gentleman who is Italian. If you want to get him to 21 We m ust know firsthand w hat use, i f any, Professor 21 give a presentation at a symposium in the U nited 22 Rubino, the Italian health officials, and our mining 22 States, you're going to offer the guy a little bit of 23 interests in Italy plan for this report on their end". 23 help. 24 So they're talking about how do we coordinate 24 It's not unusual there. 25 the release o f this paper; correct? 25 Q Okay. Page 952 Page 954 1 A Yes. 1 A Organizing --they use the word "organize", I 2 Q Okay. Next highlight. 2 think. 3 Okay -- well, I'm going to read the whole 3 Q Yeah. 4 paragraph: 4 A "Orchestrate" means organize. So... 5 "In connection with the above, I have already 5 Q All right. Well, let's-- 6 requested that Dr Stefano make arrangements for me to 6 A I don't - 1 don't see anything nefarious or 7 visit Prof Rubino and the people at the mine site in 7 suspicious or malevolent in that in any way. 8 Italy. Because o f the dual nature o f our instituting 8 Q Well, I don't expect that you do. 9 and following these Italian studies ..." 9 This is Exhibit 197. 10 "Instituting" means they started them; right? 10 (Exhibit 197 marked for identification) 11 A They were involved in instituting them, yes. 11 Here you go. 12 Q Okay. 12 So this is October 30,1974. It's by Ashton 13 A Yes. 13 to Hildick-Sm ith regarding another visit to Turin; 14 Q "... I believe that it w ould be m ost essential 14 right? 15 for you to accompany me on such --on any such visit. 15 A Yes. 16 During that visit it will be possible for us to outline 16 Q Another meeting with Rubino; right? 17 an overall program w ith the Italians to coordinate the 17 A Yes. 18 release o f any information to the scientific community 18 Q And this is October 7 meeting: 19 and the w orld in general. In order to achieve maximum 19 "Rubino gave his talk before the 37th 20 impact with this study, I believe that you are in a 20 Congress o f the Italian Society o f Occupational 21 better position than any to oversee the overall program 21 Diseases". 22 based on the decisions m ade by your company as to the 22 So we're not even talking about him coming to 23 use o f this report and in this w ay adequately control 23 the States at this point to give a presentation. He's 24 the situation. I believe also that a personal word o f 24 doing it in his own backyard; right? 25 gratitude to our prin cip als,... [the Society for Talc 25 A He's getting a - yes, he's getting a dry m n 53 (Pages 951 - 954) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 955 Page 957 1 in his own backyard. 1 only to high grade cosmetic talc and avoid paragenetic 2 Q Okay. 2 mineral matters". 3 A Yes. 3 Now Johnson & Johnson is editing the paper 4 Q The highlight: 4 for substance; correct? 5 "He carried out your instructions and kept 5 A It looks like they're trying to clarify issues. 6 his talk in terms o f talc broadly without identifying 6 Q They are editing the paper for substance; 7 us or Val Chisone in any way whatever". 7 correct? 8 Right? 8 A W ell, they are clarifying it. 9 A Yes. 9 Q They are saying that the first page has to be 10 Q So they gave Rubino, the researcher, the 10 carefully revised and they're telling them why; right? 11 scientist, instructions to leave them and Val Chisone 11 A Yes, they're making a clarification, certainly. 12 out o f it; right? 12 Q And they're not listed as a coauthor; right? 13 A Yeah. 13 A No. 14 Q And he did? 14 Q Okay. 15 A Yes. 15 Mineralogical Aspects o f Rubino's Talc 16 Q Okay. Go to the next page. 16 Article: 17 The Publication o f the Preceding Talk: 17 "As it turned out, he asked me to talk about 18 "Rubino asked me to transport the Italian 18 the m ineral make-up o f the rocks in the mining 19 version to you so w e all can have the opportunity to 19 operation whence it became clear that miners are 20 comment on it or adjust it for publication in Italy 20 exposed to an entirely different mineralogical suite 21 under the proceedings o f Rubino's S o c iety ..." 21 than are millers. 22 So Rubino is actually giving it to Johnson & 22 More specifically, the miners are continually 23 Johnson so they can adjust it for publication in Italy; 23 drifting and drilling through the host rock to get at 24 right? 24 the talc which is then stoped out. Thus miners are 25 A It would have been -- the original was written 25 exposed to host rock ... which contains large amounts Page 956 Page 958 1 in Italian. It said transport the Italian version, so 1 o f muscovite (mica) and quartz (silica)". 2 that it can be published. 2 And you and I talked briefly about that, 3 Generally, you would publish -- most 3 which is the miners aren't really burrowing through 4 scientific reports are published in English language. 4 talc; right? 5 Q Let's read that real carefully: 5 A Well, until they get to the talc. 6 "... the opportunity to comment on it or 6 Q Right. 7 adjust it for publication in Italy ..." 7 A W hen they get to the talc, they're into the 8 A Yes. 8 talc. 9 Q Right? 9 Q Right. 10 So they're giving --Rubino is giving it to 10 A But they could be cutting through non-talc rock 11 Johnson & Johnson for publication in Italy to adjust 11 to get there. 12 it; right? 12 Q Right. 13 A O r to translate it. 13 A And that's called --they used the word "stoped 14 You still publish in the English language, 14 out". In other words, it's clearing. 15 even in Italy. 15 Q Right. 16 Q So he's proposing to give it to the sponsor of 16 "Your idea to tran sm it..." 17 the study; right? 17 Well, I need to read this for context: 18 A For translation. 18 "The millers never are exposed to those rock 19 Q Okay. 19 dusts or that mineral balance since millers only mill 20 "I have some mineralogical comments which I 20 talc, not host rocks. Rubino now needs a written 21 told to Stefano. The first page o f the article has to 21 reference communication on the mineral m ake-up o f the 22 be carefully revised. The mention o f two genetic 22 host rocks and talc ore. The geological report from 23 sources o f talc and the phrase which indicates that 23 Cardiff (on file at FDA here) is a useable reference 24 talc o f dolomitic origin has fibrous mineral content 24 for that and I gave you the appropriate pages yesterday 25 must be deleted. It is important that Rubino refer 25 for transmittal to Rubino. Your idea to transmit it as 54 (Pages 955 - 958) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 959 Page 961 1 a personal communication from you as opposed to other 1 independent researcher? 2 ways is an excellent idea. 2 A Yes. 3 In addition to the above it is advisable that 3 Q Okay. 4 Rubino have more than one reference which cites host 4 Let's look at the next sentence: 5 rock mineralization and absence from chrysotile". 5 "The manuscript, in my opinion, is written in 6 So, again, now they are saying: we need to 6 a form and style that is unacceptable for the Journal 7 give him more references for lack o f chrysotile; right? 7 o f Occupational Medicine. I have in mind to send the 8 A Yes. 8 manuscript when edited for factual accuracy to a 9 Q Lastly-- 9 science w riter who w ill hold it in confidence ..." 10 A And he goes on to say where he obtained that 10 Meaning don't tell anybody; right? 11 reference. 11 A W ell, don't publish it, yeah. 12 Q Yeah. 12 Q N ot publish it as his own. He's saying "hold 13 A From the Geological Library in Milan. 13 it in confidence"; right? 14 Q Yeah. Right. 14 A Yeah. 15 Johnson & Johnson is playing an active role 15 Q Don't tell anybody is w hat that means, isn't 16 in editing Rubino's paper and in providing him 16 it, sir? 17 assistance in getting additional references; right? 17 A It means hold it in confidence. 18 A Yes. 18 Q Right: 19 Q Okay. 19 "... and rewrite for the Journal o f 20 Lastly: 20 Occupational Medicine". 21 "It is apparent that he is interested in 21 A Yes, and, again, let me --let me give an -- 22 trace metal contents o f dust clouds but I did not want 22 Q Well, I'm asking you whether -- first o f all, 23 to get into that can o f worms on the visit". 23 I'm asking you whether that's what it says? 24 Did I read that right? 24 A That's w hat it says. 25 A You did. 25 Q Johnson & Johnson is talking about taking Page 960 Page 962 1 Q Okay. You can set that aside. 1 Rubino's paper and having it rewritten by someone who 2 This next one will be 198. 2 will keep it quiet so it be submitted to the Journal of 3 (Exhibit 198 m arked for identification) 3 Occupational Medicine; correct? 4 This is by Gavin Hildick-Smith, March 31, 4 A In the form that the Journal o f Occupation 5 '75, Talc --Rubino Transcript, to M r Lee: 5 Medicine required. 6 "Attached are a letter and manuscript 6 Every journal has what's called a "house 7 received from Professor Rubino. 7 style", the way you set out a report. Typically, in 8 The manuscript is intended for publication in 8 scientific journals, you describe the results, the 9 the Journal o f Occupational M edicine. The manuscript 9 methods that you use, the statistics. Everything is 10 should b e scrutinized by our statisticians and reviewed 10 done in a certain order, and every journal w ill have a 11 for factual accuracy". 11 different house style. 12 Johnson & Johnson is still playing an active 12 It was obvious from my reading o f that that 13 role, a very active role, in editing this paper before 13 the initial version o f the m anuscript would not have 14 it's published; correct? 14 m et the house style o f the Journal o f Occupational 15 A They're playing a role which is --it's not 15 Medicine. 16 unusual to say: look, we've got experts in statistics 16 So by - by sending it to an expert editor, 17 in house. You, D r Rubino, Professor Rubino, m ay not 17 they w ould m eet the requirements o f the journal. 18 have w ritten a report o f this type before and magnitude 18 Otherwise, the journal w ould not publish. 19 before. We'll help you out. 19 Q Nothing wrong with it at all, and that's why we 20 I don't see anything m alicious in that. It's 20 want it kept in confidence; right? 21 just saying: we'll help you out w ith the statistics. 21 A Well, you just - you don't circulate stuff 22 Q Is it Johnson & Johnson's -- 22 that's never been published. 23 A We're experts. 23 Q Exhibit 199. 24 Q Sorry -- is it Johnson & Johnson's opinion that 24 (Exhibit 199 marked for identification) 25 Professor Rubino was still doing this study as an 25 Up to this point --let's just be very 55 (Pages 959 - 962) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 963 Page 965 1 clear --up to this point, Johnson & Johnson has paid 1 Who's W aggoner? 2 for the Rubino study, at least in part; correct? 2 A I recollect I think he was a senior scientist 3 A They've made a financial contribution. 3 at Johnson & Johnson -- 4 Q They have, in their own words, originated the 4 Q Okay. 5 study; right? 5 A --Baby Products Company. 6 A Yes. 6 Q And this is one o f those letters to the file; 7 Q So they can "control" it; right? 7 right? 8 A Well, we haven't defined the word "control". 8 A Yeah. 9 Q I'm using their words. 9 Q It goes right in the file cabinet? 10 A Using the word, right. 10 A It does. 11 Q So they can control it; right? 11 Q Okay. 12 A They've used that word, yes. 12 A It's a record o f a meeting. 13 Q They have met with Rubino at least two times 13 Q All right. 14 before its publication; correct? 14 But it does look like, however, some people 15 A Yeah. Nothing unusual in that. 15 pulled it from the file, because you can see a few 16 Q Again, I didn't ask you whether there was 16 initials up top, as well as a received stamp; right? 17 anything unusual about it. 17 A Yes. 18 I'm asking you what they actually did. 18 Q So it's not like this one did just go straight 19 So they m et with him at least two times; 19 into the file; right? 20 right? 20 M R GAFFREY: W hat's the date on that? 21 A Yes. 21 M R PANATIER: This one is December 20,1974. 22 Q They wrote him a letter wherein they talked 22 Q And this one regards a meeting with the FDA on 23 about w hat they w ould like him to talk about at a 23 November 6, '74; right? 24 conference; correct? 24 A Yes. 25 A They did. 25 Q Okay. Page 964 Page 966 1 Q Right, as well as what expected the results to 1 Let's just go to the second to last page. 2 show, that being no more incidence o f cancer between 2 It's the page at the bottom is 294. 3 the miners and the millers and the general population; 3 This is what M r Waggoner says, or Mr 4 correct? 4 Waggoner: 5 A Yes, and we assume that, based on telephone 5 "Dr Schaffner..." 6 conversations, they probably already had that 6 He's FDA; right? 7 information. 7 A Yes. 8 Q They have told him that they want him to revise 8 Q "... then offered that although Johnson & 9 the entire first page; correct? 9 Johnson has supplied the FDA with a great deal o f data, 10 A Yes, if there were factual misunderstandings, 10 the question o f talc won't go away and more data will 11 especially from the Italian translation. 11 be needed on several fronts. Further that any data 12 Q Well, they want him to remove references to 12 would be welcomed, but there is a question whether or 13 fibrous dolomite; correct? 13 not data o f a negative nature w ill satisfy 14 A Yes. 14 consumerists". 15 Q T hey w ant him to include references about lack 15 W hat is a consumerist? 16 o f chrysotile; right? 16 A That's bad grammar. I think it would mean 17 A Yes. 17 consumer. 18 Q They're going to have it rewritten on the down 18 Q Okay. 19 low by somebody to put it in the form for publication 19 "Dr Shapiro questioned whether or not the 20 in the Journal o f Occupational Medicine; correct? 20 Rubino study could be related to the dusting o f a child 21 A Yes. 21 with talc. D r Schaffner then added that any data would 22 Q Okay. 22 be overshadowed by the fact that consumers aren't in 23 So this is Exhibit 199 that you're looking 23 mines, and consumerists are concerned with home-use. 24 at. If you go to --this is a paper --not a paper, 24 He agreed that the data may be very useful, but it 25 it's a letter --from W illiam C Waggoner. 25 really is difficult to relate to a home-use situation". 56 (Pages 963 - 966) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 967 Page 969 1 Did I read (hat right? 1 Q Okay. 2 A You read what his opinion was, yes. 2 A Yes. 3 Q And that was from the guy at the FDA; right? 3 Q Total 165,000; right? 4 A Yes. 4 A Yes. 5 Q Okay. 5 Q Okay. 6 You can set that aside. 6 So that tells us --that gives us at least an 7 Exhibit 200. 7 installment for this period that they were paying to 8 (Exhibit 200 marked for identification) 8 Rubino, 30,000? 9 A M ade it. 9 A Yes. 10 Q There's no fireworks or confetti going off; 10 Q Okay. All right. You can set that aside, sir. 11 right? 11 This will be 201. 12 Right. This is from Lee to Mullen, May 29, 12 (Exhibit 201 marked for identification) 13 75: 13 November 19,1975. This is from Ashton to 14 "[Dear] M r ... Mullen: 14 Lee. 15 Relative to our project spending meeting of 15 Ashton says: 16 M ay 19th, w e w ould like to identify the following, as 16 "I had a meeting with D r Rubino during my 17 elements o f the above, whose cost should be shared 17 recent visit to Val Chisone to get some first hand 18 between J& J International and ourselves in the current 18 impressions on his talc activities". 19 year because o f accruing benefits ..." 19 So Ashton went to Italy and met with Rubino 20 Meaning these studies they're referencing may 20 again; right? 21 be benefiting both J& J International as well as J&J US? 21 A Yeah. 22 A Yes. 22 Q "I arranged the meeting in the presence o f M r G 23 Q All right. Okay. 23 V illa..." 24 And then it lists these different studies, 24 W e know he's with the mining family; right? 25 and 1. is: 25 A He's the son. Page 968 Page 970 1 "E ffo rt..." 1 Q Right. 2 W ell, this isn't a study. This is a task: 2 A Yes. 3 "Effort regarding] Asbestos Identification 3 Q "... M r D Ferry o f Chas M athieu, USA and our 4 Methodology Talc Safety Studies Generation & Rebuttal 4 joint friend Dr Stefano, so there would be no doubt 5 Coordination". 5 that M r Villa would be up to the minute on the 6 Right? 6 information and any differences o f opinions". 7 A Yes. 7 Skip down: 8 Q $40,000 for that? 8 "Rubino has now received official acceptance 9 A Yeah. 9 from the Journal o f Occupational Medicine USA on his 10 Q Battelle Inhalation Studies. 10 m anuscript covering the entire mortality study as 11 Those were the hamster studies; right? 11 delivered at the San Francisco meeting this past 12 A They would be, yes. 75. Yes. 12 April". 13 Q Yeah. 13 So now it's been accepted; right? 14 A Yeah. 14 A It has, yes. 15 Q $52,000; right? 15 Q Go to the next page. 16 A Yes. 16 "Ferry advised the group that he sees no 17 Q Italian Talc M illers Pulm onary M orbidity Study, 17 benefit or need for the proposed pulmonary study as far 18 $30,000; right? 18 as the w orld talc m arket is concerned. He is 19 A Yes, yes. 19 apprehensive on any study which can produce results 20 Q Talc Safety Papers Presentation, $20,000; 20 less than clear cut and told Villa he was opposed to 21 right? 21 the study". 22 A Yes. 22 So apparently Rubino is proposing to do a - 23 Q Cardiff Consultant Agreement, $13,000. 23 what's called a "morbidity study"; correct? 24 That's Pooley; right? 24 A Yes. 25 A It would be, yes. 25 Q "Morbidity" means -- "mortality" means death; 57 (Pages 967 - 970) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 971 Page 973 1 "morbidity" means illness; right? 1 negatives". 2 A Yes. 2 So that's what the mine owner's son says; 3 Q Okay. 3 right? 4 And Ferry from Chas Mathieu, who is the 4 A Yes. 5 importer, is saying he's not too enthusiastic about it; 5 Q Okay. You can set that aside, sir. 6 right? 6 A Lots o f different opinions. 7 A He's the business guy and he didn't see any 7 Q Exhibit 202. 8 value in his particular use. 8 (Exhibit 202 marked for identification) 9 Q Okay. Well, here's what Ashton says: 9 All right. This is Rubino's published study; 10 "I advised the group that m y company was not 10 right? 11 prepared to finance such a study and that our opinion 11 A Yes. 12 was that the available cohort o f millers was too small 12 Q In the Journal o f Occupation Medicine? 13 for sound statistical significance. I also indicated 13 A Yes. 14 the study could extend over several years and m ight 14 Q It lists four authors: Rubino, Scansetti, 15 raise more unknowns than are presently discernible". 15 Piolatto and Romano; right? 16 That's what Ashton says; right? 16 A Yes. 17 A That's what he says. 17 Q Johnson & Johnson is not listed as an author; 18 Q So he's not in favor i f it either? 18 right? 19 A N ot at that stage, no. 19 A No. 20 Q DrStefano: 20 Q Neither is Stefano? 21 "Stefano was o f the opinion that the study 21 A No. 22 should be run and that it would prove to be a positive 22 Q Bill Ashton, Gavin Hildick-Lee [sic] Don 23 factor in the defense o f talc". 23 Ferry -- none o f those are authors here; right? 24 So he is suggesting he already knows what the 24 A They're not authors, no. 25 results will be; correct? 25 Q Even though we know that they were involved in Page 972 Page 974 1 A Yeah. 1 the generation o f this study; correct? 2 Q Okay. 2 A They were involved in --as an advisory role in 3 A He's confident about his product. 3 various points, yes. 4 Q Yeah. 4 Q And an editorial role; right? 5 "He seemed to think that J&J desired the 5 A Only in the sense of: can w e check your 6 study and that it would be a natural follow-up from the 6 statistics? Can we help you with your statistics? Can 7 mortality study. He indicated the study has a bearing 7 we ensure that the --there's no misunderstanding in 8 on a suit against Val Chesone and they may need the 8 technical terms? Which we discussed earlier. 9 results o f ... a study for their own purposes". 9 Q Yeah. 10 Right? 10 A Yeah. 11 A Yes. 11 Q And a --and a meeting with you lot role; 12 Q So they may want the study to defend against a 12 right? 13 lawsuit; right? 13 A Yes, we met, yeah. 14 A Yeah. 14 Q And a please delete certain references role? 15 Q Rubino: 15 A I didn't see the delete the references, b u t ... 16 "Rubino thinks the study should be run". 16 Q Delete the reference to fibrous dolomite. Add 17 That's all it says for him; right? 17 references to lack o f chrysotile; right? 18 A Yes. 18 A Yes. 19 Q Okay. 19 Q Okay. 20 M r Villa. Skip down: 20 Now, if you look at the end, usually this is 21 "Villa is opposed to opening up anything on 21 where you see acknowledgments for support or conflicts 22 talc which might unearth indefinite findings which can 22 o f interest; right? 23 be misinterpreted as negative. His overall view is 23 A Certainly, by American and British authors you 24 that he wants the positive aspects on any future talc 24 would, yes. 25 studies em phasized and undiluted with potential 25 Q Okay. 58 (Pages 971 - 974) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 975 Page 977 1 There is none; right? 1 talk to you about the Selevan manuscript and the 2 A Yes. 2 Selikoff meeting". 3 Q Okay. 3 So - 4 Then if you see at the very last paragraph, 4 Q Oh, maybe you misunderstood my question. 5 it says, just as an aside: 5 M y point is Hildick-Smith from Johnson & 6 "The small amount o f free silica in mills 6 Johnson is complaining about the --w hether or not 7 operations is due, as above mentioned, to the actual 7 someone else's work is a first-order scientific 8 incomplete screening o f talc inclusions. The same 8 document? 9 explanation could be given for the very small number of 9 A Yes. 10 fibers in air, caused by possible m icroinclusions o f 10 Q And he's complaining about it to a guy, Rubino, 11 rock containing little am ount o f tremolite". 11 w hose paper Johnson & Johnson had rewritten so it could 12 Right? 12 be published; right? 13 A Yes. 13 A Yeah, but don't forget that paper would have 14 Q Rubino actually explains the presence o f fibers 14 been peer reviewed before the Journal o f Occupational 15 in air based on tremolite; right? 15 Medicine w ould have published it. They w ould have senl 16 A That was his explanation. 16 it out to their own reviewers. 17 Q Okay. You can set that aside, sir. 17 What Hildick-Smith is saying here is that the 18 This will be Exhibit 203. 18 Selevan m anuscript at the Selikoff m eeting may not be a 19 (Exhibit 203 marked for identification) 19 first-order because it's not been reviewed as peer 20 From Gavin Hildick-Smith at J&J to Professor 20 reviewed. 21 Rubino, another letter; right? 21 Q Let's be clear, the Rubino paper was peer 22 A Yes. 22 reviewed by Johnson & Johnson before it was peer 23 Q Is it still Johnson & Johnson's opinion that 23 reviewed by anybody else; right? 24 this guy was an independent researcher? 24 A The w ord "peer reviewed" in --has two 25 A Well, yes. Why not? 25 different meanings there. Page 976 Page 978 1 Q Okay. Why not? Okay. 1 One, a review by Johnson & Johnson: can we 2 November 3,1977, and they're on a first name 2 help you with your statistics? Can we help you with 3 basis now: 3 the way you present the data so that it matches the 4 "Dear G iovanni..." 4 house style o f the Journal o f Occupational Medicine? 5 Right? 5 That is not the same as a peer review. 6 "I was pleased to have the opportunity to 6 A peer review is w hen the final m anuscript is 7 talk to you about the Selevan manuscript and the 7 put together and it is sent out by the Journal o f 8 Selikoff meeting. As I indicated to you, in my 8 Occupational Medicine, or another journal, to three, 9 opinion, the Selikoff meeting is designed to show how 9 four, different people to review that paper and say: 10 dangerous all dusts are and prom pt government to 10 w ould you go through this, check the statistics? How 11 introduce new regulations. Unfortunately, therefore, 11 is the data presented? 12 the m eeting will be very biased, and the quality o f the 12 That's peer review. 13 scientific information presented m ay be less than the 13 Q Sure, sure. I was using it more in the 14 best. The results o f the m eeting will be published in 14 vernacular. 15 the proceedings, but the data will not be refereed and 15 A Yes. 16 as such w ill not be a first-order scientific document". 16 Q Johnson & Johnson edited and revised Rubino's 17 So they're saying that to Rubino; right? 17 w ork before it was ever peer reviewed; correct? 18 A Yes. 18 A They made editorial comment and they made 19 Q They're literally saying --he's literally 19 assistance w ith some o f the statistics. 20 saying that to a guy whose paper he had to rewrite so 20 Q Okay. You say "assistance". They asked him to 21 it could get into a journal; right? 21 delete certain things; right? 22 A Well, I don't think it actually says that. 22 A O r rephrase it. 23 I'm reading the first fine, and maybe you can 23 Q Okay. 24 correct me: 24 Well, I guess it's technically rephrasing if 25 "I was pleased to have the opportunity to 25 you delete something. You're rephrasing the overall; 59 (Pages 975 - 978) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 979 Page 981 1 correct? 1 Q N ow he's w riting Stefano, and he says: 2 A But that could well be part o f the overall 2 "Dear Umberto: 3 review o f the way it's presented when it's translated 3 I was very pleased to have the opportunity to 4 from the Italian to the English version. 4 talk to you recently about the preparation o f Professor 5 I mean, we're talking hypothetically. 5 Rubino's manuscript for the December 4 meeting in 6 Q Well, no, no, it's not hypothetical if they 6 Washington". 7 said, "Get rid o f fibrous dolomite and add more 7 So that's our context; right? 8 references for lack o f chrysotile". 8 A Yes, yes. 9 That's not hypothetical. That happened; 9 Q Going down: 10 right? 10 "It is therefore most important that 11 A Yeah. 11 Professor Rubino's paper, as the first one on 12 Q Okay. 12 non-asbestos talc, submits the data he has already 13 A And I guess what I'm saying is that fibrous 13 obtained and that additional data be included in his 14 dolomite is not applicable because there w as no fibrous 14 paper to w hich w e can refer at the m eeting and which in 15 dolomite in -- in the talc. 15 the published proceedings w ill show that cosmetic grade 16 It was a case o f yes, they were going through 16 talc is neither a carcinogen nor harmful when used by 17 the mine. They m ay well have come across fibrous 17 consumers or m ined under m odem conditions. 18 dolomite, but if you're focusing on the talc, you focus 18 I have taken the liberty o f including a 19 on the talc. 19 discussion and conclusion for Professor Rubino's 20 Q The scientist put fibrous dolomite in his paper 20 paper". 21 and the com pany said, "Get rid o f it"; right? 21 Right? 22 A Because it probably wasn't applicable to the 22 A Yes. 23 product. 23 Q Johnson & Johnson is authoring the discussion 24 Q He says: 24 and conclusion for Professor Rubino to present at the 25 "As it would be nice to have a presentation 25 meeting; right? Page 980 Page 982 1 at Selikoffs meeting and a paper in his proceedings 1 A They presented a discussion conclusion to a 2 which refers to good scientific research on talc, I am 2 gentleman who does not have English as his first 3 taking the liberty o f enclosing a discussion section 3 language. 4 which I have written which perhaps you could include in 4 I do recollect that he had basic English, and 5 your paper with appropriate editing by you". 5 here's some information as to where you want to present 6 Right? 6 it. 7 A Yes. 7 A bit like we talked about having a house 8 Q So Johnson & Johnson is giving a discussion 8 style. You --you m ay need to say that this is the 9 section to Rubino to include in his presentation that 9 kind o f information that one would use in a conclusion 10 they wrote? 10 or a final discussion. 11 A Yes. 11 So yes, they're offering that information. 12 Q Okay. You can set that aside. 12 Q Sir, he's not offering a translation. He wrote 13 This will be Exhibit 204. 13 the discussion and conclusion and is asking him to 14 (Exhibit 204 marked for identification) 14 include it; correct? 15 This is November 3,1977. It is the same day 15 A That is correct, yes. 16 as the previous letter; right? 16 Q Okay. 17 A Yes. 17 A In the English language. 18 Q And, in fact, it is the same author. It's 18 Q And, in fact -- he doesn't say he has an 19 Gavin Hildick-Smith? 19 Italian version that he's working from, does he? 20 A Yes. 20 A But he w ould have, because he's Italian. 21 Q Right. 21 His original work is in Italian. 22 So he's told Rubino what he would like at 22 Q The bottom line is that Rubino didn't author a 23 this meeting, and said: I included a thing I wrote for 23 discussion or conclusion at all. Johnson & Johnson did 24 you to include; right? 24 for him to state and read to this group; correct? 25 A Yes. 25 A They did, yes. 60 (Pages 979 - 982) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 983 Page 985 1 Q Okay. 1 This will be Exhibit 206. 2 Up at the top it says: 2 (Exhibit 206 marked for identification) 3 " B ill..." 3 A Yes. 4 And this is cc W illiam Ashton. 4 Q This one's got a few packets o f paper; okay? 5 "Bill - Gavin Hildick-Smith informed me that 5 This is from Gavin Hildick-Smith to Stefano, 6 Stefano is writing the English manuscript for Rubino's 6 and he says --this is M arch 20,1978, and you can see, 7 SOEH paper". 7 actually, at the top in handwriting it says. 8 That's Society o f Occupational and 8 "Rubino. Italian Mine Morbidity Study". 9 Environmental Health; right? 9 A It does say that, yes. 10 A Yes. 10 Q Okay. 11 Q "Stefano is to approach Rubino on the addition. 11 I've gotten pretty good at learning these 12 W e all appreciate the delicacy o f this approach." 12 guys' handwriting, haven't I? 13 That's what we says; right? 13 A Yeah. Good for you. 14 A Yes. You don't want to tread on the guy's 14 Q Right. Yeah. 15 toes. 15 "Dear Umberto: 16 Q Especially when you're writing entire sections 16 Many thanks for your letter o f March 3 in 17 o f stuff for him to present; right? 17 w hich you kindly inform me that Rubino w ill probably be 18 A Well, the final sentences, yes. 18 doing a morbidity study in talc miners in Italy. 19 Q Okay. This will be Exhibit 205. 19 I think the study will be m ost interesting and I hope 20 (Exhibit 205 marked for identification) 20 that you will be kind enough to keep me informed o f it 21 All right. This is from Gavin Hildick-Smith 21 and the results obtained". 22 again to G Lee, Talc Study --Professor Rubino, 22 Right? 23 January 5,1978: 23 A That's w hat it says. 24 "Attached is a copy o f a letter addressed to 24 Q Okay. 25 M r W A sh to n ..." 25 I f you look at the very next page, it's a Page 984 Page 986 1 That's Bill Ashton. 1 confidential memo on University o f Turino letterhead; 2 "... which was placed in an envelope 2 right? 3 addressed to me. The letter suggests that Professor 3 A Yes. 4 Rubino is proposing a study on morbidity o f millers in 4 Q And it says under 1: 5 the Italian mine and that 'Donald' is involved with the 5 "Present status o f the problem. It has been 6 study. 6 inferred by some articles Kleinfeld, Selevan, Boundy, 7 Professor Rubino is, o f course, free to do 7 in the last years the possible carcinogenic role of 8 any studies he wishes, but I think it is important that 8 talc. All through these conclusions..." 9 those interested in identifying the morbidity o f talc 9 I think he means: 10 mine employees should be kept appraised o f any propose 110 "... Although these conclusions were partly 11 studies so that w e don't encounter any unnecessary 11 criticised during the W ashington SOEH meeting, it seems 12 'surprises"'. 12 necessary to publish data which underlines the 13 Right? 13 non-carcinogenicity o f non-asbestiform talc". 14 A Yeah. 14 Right? 15 Q Okay. 15 A Yes. 16 So it looks like Rubino is going to go 16 Q So this is the actual protocol; right? 17 forward w ith his m orbidity study; right? 17 You can look over it. 18 A Sure. 18 A Okay. 19 Q This is the study that J&J and Don Ferry at 19 Q Okay? 20 Chas Mathieu were against; correct? 20 And this is - so this is the protocol for 21 A Yeah, they didn't want to pay for it, yes. 21 the study; true? 22 Q It w asn't ju st they didn't w ant to pay for it. 22 A Yeah, it's a list o f what they -- the kind of 23 They didn't think it could benefit them; correct? 23 things they need to think about. 24 A Correct. 24 Q And so before they even do the study, before 25 Q Okay. You can set that aside. 25 the start even starts, they say it seems necessary to 61 (Pages 983 - 986) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 987 Page 989 1 publish data which underlined the non-carcinogenicity 1 population? 2 o f non-asbestiform talc; right? 2 A Yes. 3 A Yes. 3 Q That's kind o f a surprising result, isn't it? 4 Q Okay. Right. If you will turn to --it's the 4 A No, it isn't. 5 big chunk o f your paper there. There you go. 5 Q Okay. 6 And there it is: 6 A I'll explain why, but I don't want to interrupt 7 Mortality and Morbidity Among Talc Miners and 7 your flow. 8 Millers in Italy, and it's by all the same authors from 8 Q That's fine. 9 the first paper, except for they've gotten rid o f 9 And for millers, they expected 1.2 and they 10 Romano and added Gay; correct? 10 got zero; right? 11 A Yeah. 11 A Yes. 12 Q A nd you can see this says ''prepublication 12 Q Okay. 13 copy"? 13 Now, part o f that could be the "healthy 14 A Yes. 14 w orker effect"; right? 15 Q Right? 15 A Yes. 16 If you will, please, sir, first o f all, it 16 Q Okay. Is that what you were going to tell me? 17 appears that somehow Johnson & Johnson got a 17 A I was, yes. 18 prepublication copy; right? 18 Q Okay. 19 A Yeah. 19 So now let's look at cancers o f the larynx, 20 Q Okay. 20 esophagus and stomach; okay? 21 If you go to the page the Bates number that 21 A Yes. 22 says 9089, please. 22 Q For the miners, they have increased cancer o f 23 Okay? Do you see there's a -- 23 the larynx; right? 24 A Table. 24 A They do. 25 Q Is that 9089? 25 Q Expect 3.3, get 5; right? Page 988 Page 990 1 A No, sorry. Two pages turned at once. 1 A Yes. 2 Q It's all right. We'll get to that one. 2 Q For the esophagus, they expect 2.8 and they get 3 I think it's the next --yeah, you got it. 3 6. It's more than doubled; right? 4 Okay. 4 A Yes. 5 Now, remember from the - from the protocol 5 Q For stomach, they expect 21.7, they get 26; 6 it said: 6 right? 7 "It seems necessary to publish data which 7 A Yes. 8 underlined the non-carcinogenicity o f non-asbestiform 8 Q Okay. 9 talc". 9 For the millers, for esophageal cancer, they 10 So now we're looking at the table for the 10 expect 1, they get 4? 11 results; right? 11 A Yes. 12 A Yes. 12 Q And for the stomach, it's about equal. They 13 Q And under Miners you have: 13 expect 7.9, they get 7? 14 "All malignant neoplasms". 14 A Yes. 15 Right? You have a category for that? 15 Q And then other sites for the millers, they 16 A Yes. 16 expect 16.1, they get 24; right? 17 Q Right? 17 A Yes. 18 "Malignant neoplasm" is science talk for 18 Q Okay. 19 cancer? 19 So there are, at least for larynx in the 20 A It is. 20 miners, esophageal cancer in the miners, stomach cancer 21 Q Right. 21 in the miners, esophageal cancer in the millers and 22 It has lung, bronchus, trachea, and it says 22 other sites, you have increased cancer? 23 for miners you have 8 observed and 17 expected. 23 A You do. 24 So apparently these guys had half the rate of 24 Q Right. 25 lung, bronchus and trachea cancer as the general 25 So that would be --looks like five different 62 (Pages 987 - 990) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 991 1 areas where you have increased cancer among the 1 2 workers, as opposed to the general population; right? 2 3 A Yes. 3 4 Q Okay. 4 5 . All right, sir, and I think the next page - 5 6 I think it just restates the data by years worked? 6 7 A It does, yes. 7 8 Q Okay. All right. 8 9 So we have five increased areas o f cancer; 9 10 true? 10 11 A Yeah. 11 12 Q So the hypothesis o f it seems necessary to 12 13 publish data w hich underline the non-carcinogenicity o f 13 14 non-asbestiform talc, well, they didn't seem to see any 14 15 more lung cancer; right? 15 16 A Correct. 16 17 Q But they did see five different categories o f 17 18 cancer that were increased; true? 18 19 A They did, and o f course if we read the full 19 20 paper, they gave an explanation that, from my records, 20 21 from m y m em ory, 46 per cent o f the employees were 21 22 smokers. 22 23 Q Sure. 23 24 A And when you do a statistical or an 24 25 epidemiological study, you should coordinate your 25 Page 993 (Exhibit 207 marked for identification) And so this is the paper that came out in '79, Mortality and Morbidity among Talc Miners and Millers in Italy; right? A Yes. Q And this is (he published paper, is it not? A Yes. Q Okay. If you will, sir, please turn to page - on the side it's marked 359. A Yes. Q Okay? See the table there? A Yeah. Q There's categories o f causes o f death; right? A Yes. Q All causes, lung cancer, non-malignant respiratory disease, pneumoconiosis, and tuberculosis associated with pneumoconiosis and tuberculosis; right? A Yes. Q Where is the category for esophageal cancer? A W ell, it looks like it's been placed under all causes. Q Does it say that? A No, this is a simplified version o f that, I think. Page 992 Page 994 1 control group for smokers and non-smokers. 1 Q I'd say it's simplified all right, because 2 And so those are confounding factors. 2 esophageal cancer doesn't appear, does it? 3 Q Yes. 3 A It's not listed, no. It's a simplified 4 A So in this particular case, you could not 4 version. 5 exclude the fact that 46 per cent o f those miners and 5 Q Neither does stomach cancer, which was 6 millers were smokers. 6 increased; true? 7 Q Yes. 7 A Well, it's listed under all causes? 8 A It makes it difficult to interpret. 8 Q Well, it's not listed. There's a place for 9 Q Sure. 9 "all causes"; right? 10 A But that was the - that was one o f the 10 A This is a simplified version which lists as all 11 conclusions that cam e out o f that study. 11 causes, yes. 12 Q Okay. Well, two things on that. 12 Q Right. 13 First o f all, when you have results, you do 13 There's no line there for increased larynx 14 try to posit scientific explanations for them; right? 14 cancer; right? 15 A Yes. 15 A Correct. 16 Q Interestingly, though, no increased lung 16 Q Or other sites cancer; right? 17 cancer. All those smokers, no increased lung cancer; 17 A Yeah. 18 right? 18 Q So what we have is we know in die 19 A Yes. 19 prepublication version there are five categories o f 20 Q Okay. You can set (hat aside, sir. 20 cancer that are increased among the millers and miners; 21 So that was the prepublication version; 21 right? 22 right, sir? 22 A Correct. 23 A Yes. 23 Q Five categories, and yet in the paper there's 24 Q Okay. 24 no evidence that those individuals had increased 25 This is Exhibit 207. 25 cancer; correct? 63 (Pages 991 - 994) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 995 Page 997 1 That there were those five different 1 A This one? 2 categories o f increased cancer? 2 Q Is that it? 3 A That's not separated out, no. It's been 3 A Yeah. 4 combined. 4 Q So we know that in the prepublication version 5 Q It's not. 5 there were five different categories o f cancer that 6 So it says "all causes", and w e see for "all 6 were elevated; correct? 7 causes", in each category o f exposure years, you do 7 A There were five different categories that were 8 have far more observed than expected; right? 8 listed, yes. 9 A Yes. 9 Q That were elevated. The cancers were elevated 10 Q B ut remember the goal o f the paper w as to show 10 over background? 11 no increased cancer; right? 11 A Let me have a look... 12 A Well, yes. 12 Q Sure. 13 Q Right? 13 A Yeah, although we don't have statistics as to 14 So i f you ju st dropped them under all causes 14 whether that's a statistically significant difference. 15 and you don't include the fact that m any o f those were 15 Q W ell, they're listed just like the other 16 cancers, there's no w ay to know; right? 16 cancers; right? 17 A Yes. 17 A They're listed numerically, but there's no 18 Q Let's take-- 18 evidence that that was a -- w hat scientists call a 19 A It's been -- it's been simplified. 19 "statistically significant difference". 20 Q Okay. 20 Q Okay. I understand. 21 It's omitted stomach cancer, laryngeal 21 We have more cancers in five categories in 22 cancer, esophageal cancer and other site cancer; right? 22 the miners and millers than we do the general 23 A It's put them - because they were smaller 23 population; correct? 24 numbers, they've been combined together under a 24 A Yes. 25 heading, "All causes". 25 Q Okay. Thank you, sir. Page 996 Page 998 1 Q They were all increased cancers? 1 Now let's look at, in the actual paper that 2 A Yes. 2 is published, which you've looked at, we know that none 3 Q Right? 3 o f those five cancers are mentioned; right? 4 A Yes. 4 A Correct. 5 Q Let's take a quick break. 5 Q And you said that they were included in the 6 (O ff the record at 3:14 pm) 6 "all causes"? 7 (On the record at 3:27 pm) 7 A Well, I would - yeah, I was presuming that was 8 M R PANATIER: A bit o f housekeeping before I 8 the case. All causes. 9 forget. 9 Q You hoped they wouldn't simply make the numbers 10 Q Sir, have you read any depositions taken in the 10 disappear? 11 Teuscher case? 11 A Yes. 12 A No. 12 Q Right? 13 Q Have you read any depositions taken in the 13 A Yes. 14 Verdolotti case? 14 Q Okay. 15 A No. 15 Nevertheless, if they're all just roped into 16 Q Have you read any depositions taken in the 16 the "all causes", then we don't know the --anyone 17 Herford case? 17 reading this won't know that there were increased 18 A No. 18 cancers in the miners and millers in five categories; 19 Q Have you read any depositions taken in the 19 correct? 20 Etheridge case? 20 A Yes, although, because we've said before, I 21 A No. 21 don't know see any evidence there that those 22 Q All right, sir. 22 differences were statistically significant. 23 I'm going to back to the Mortality and 23 Q Well, sir, let's look at page 1 o f the report; 24 Morbidity paper, the second Rubino paper. 24 right? 25 Y ou should have it. 25 A Yeah. 64 (Pages 995 - 998) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 999 Page 1001 1 Q You have lung cancer; right? 1 A Yes. 2 A Yes. 2 Q I f you have 1, that m eans that's equal with 3 Q Right? 3 background -- 4 You don't have a statistical significance - 4 A Yeah. 5 significant increase in lung cancer, do you? 5 Q -right? 6 A No. 6 A Yeah, yeah. 7 Q But they report it? 7 Q So tell me what the SMR is for each o f those 8 A Correct. 8 cancers. 9 Q Okay. 9 So for larynx cancer in the miners, what's 10 So whether or not those were statistically 10 the SMR? 11 significant, the other five categories, they should 11 A The SM R is 152. 12 have been reported; correct? 12 Q That's elevated, is it not? 13 A W ell --w ell, it seems to m e that w hat this 13 A But that was on a population o f 5 observed and 14 paper is focusing on is pulmonary issues, lung issues. 14 3 exposed. 15 Q Well, let's see if --let's see what it says. 15 Q That's fine, sir, but they -- 16 Look at the last page o f the paper, please. 16 A Expected. I beg your pardon. 17 W hat they say in the middle paragraph there 17 Q Yeah, I hear what you're saying. 18 under their conclusions is: 18 A Yeah. 19 "In conclusion, our findings show that no 19 Q But there's a statistically increased amount o f 20 relationship has been found between Italian talc 20 larynx cancer; correct? 21 exposure and cancer, whereas pneumoconiosis m ay be 21 A Well, that's not statistically significant. 22 observed". 22 The --w hen you do statistics, you use a 23 Is that what they say? 23 probability, and there's a little --a single asterisk 24 A That's w hat they say, yes. 24 where the probability is less than .05 and a lesser one 25 Q Okay. 25 where the probability is less than .01, and that ~ Page 1000 Page 1002 1 And we know, based on the prepublication 1 that is not the case for the one you just spoke of, the 2 version, that five categories o f cancer were elevated; 2 esophagus. 3 right? 3 Q Sorry, let me grab my copy, which I thought I 4 A Yes. 4 had. Sorry, let me take a peek at it to make sure 5 Q Okay. 5 we're talking about the right thing. 6 A Although statistically -- 6 Actually, okay, if the P value is less than 7 Q You can set it aside. 7 .05, you have a 95 per cent confidence interval; right? 8 A --they were not significant. 8 A Yes. 9 Q Yet they reported lung cancer; right? 9 Q M ost epidemiological work is done to a 10 A They did. 10 95 per cent confidence interval; right? 11 Q Okay. Let me take a peek at that. You can set 11 A Yes, yes. 12 that aside, sir. 12 Q Sometimes you can get the P value to 13 Okay. Sir, you know what an SMR is; right? 13 99 per cent; right? 14 A Yes. Standard mean -- 14 A Yes. 15 Q Standard mortality ratio. 15 Q Or the confidence interval to 99 per cent; 16 A Yes. 16 true? 17 Q Right? 17 A Yes, yes. 18 A Mortality ratio. 18 Q Okay. 19 Q And a standard mortality ratio over 2 - over 19 So for --let's just look at - for other 20 200 is statistically significant for an increased risk; 20 sites, okay, take a peek at other sites. Right there; 21 right? 21 right? 22 A Yes. 22 They have a statistically increased risk for 23 Q Okay. 23 cancer, do they not, at a P value o f .05; right? 24 So take a peek here. Well, actually, sorry. 24 A They do, yes. 25 Anything over 1 -- 25 Q That's to a 95 per cent confidence interval; 65 (Pages 999 - 1002) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 1003 Page 1005 1 right? 1 draft, were in some way not significant, o f no 2 A Yes. 2 scientific value? 3 Q The miners have a statistically increased rate 3 A Yeah. W hat we're seeing here is --let's look 4 o f esophageal cancer o f - actually, it's o f 4 - 4 4 at miners. Lung cancer. They observed 2 people and 5 fold, or 400 as expressed in SMR, and that's 5 they expected 3.9. 6 statistically significant, too, is it not? 6 Q Yeah, so you've got -- you've got 2 people? 7 A It is on those numbers, yes. 7 A Yeah. 8 Q To a 95 per cent confidence interval; correct? 8 Q Yeah, and they saw in --they saw in larynx 9 A It is on those numbers, yes. 9 cancer 5 cancers, expected 3.3; in esophageal, 6 10 Q Aha. 10 cancers, expected 2.8; stomach, expected 21.7, saw 26; 11 Now, the other ones don't have the little 11 esophageal for millers, saw 4, expected 1; for other 12 asterisks by them, do they? 12 sites, saw 24, expected 16.1. 13 A They do not. 13 You had far more cancer incidence in these 14 Q But neither does lung cancer? 14 other sites than lung cancer and they weren't reported; 15 A No. 15 right? 16 Q Right? 16 A Y es,because- 17 But they reported lung cancer? 17 Q In fact, we know that several o f them were to a 18 A They did. They were focusing on the lungs. 18 P value o f 95 per cent, or to a confidence interval of 19 Q Yeah, but they reported a statistically 19 95 per cent; right? 20 insignificant result for lung cancer, yet they had 20 A Yes. 21 statistically significant results for esophageal cancer 21 Q Okay. 22 and for other causes; correct? 22 N ow - 23 A They did-- 23 A But when you do a P value using a statistician 24 Q Okay. 24 or a statistical analysis, you also need to look at the 25 A --but you cannot -- although you can do a 25 biological plausibility, and if you don't get round Page 1004 Page 1006 1 statistical analysis and get a result, if you have 1 your confounding factors, like cigarette smoking, if 2 numbers like observed 4, expected 1, or observed 6, 2 you don't deal with size o f population, it makes it 3 expected 2.8, those w ill not give you what's called 3 very difficult to come to a definitive conclusion. 4 "biological significance". 4 Q There were 5 extra cancers in the 5 A mathematician w ill say: yeah, P .05 -- 5 prepublication version that showed increased over 6 COURT REPORTER: Will say what, sorry? 6 expected; they were not in the publication version; 7 THE WITNESS: A mathematician would tell you, 7 correct? 8 or a statistician would say you get a P equals or is 8 A If we're talking about larynx? 9 less than .05. 9 Q No, listen to m y question. I'm just asking you 10 But that in this particular case would be of 10 a really simple question this time; okay? 11 questionable biological value because the num bers are 11 There were 5 cancers --5 total categories. 12 so small that attaining biological significance is just 12 A Five categories, yes. 13 not possible. 13 Q Okay, that showed increased cancer over the 14 Certainly in the main paper, as I recollect, 14 expected that were in the prepublication version and 15 they did state that there is a significant compounding 15 were om itted from the publication version; correct? 16 effect because so m any o f these guys w ere --were 16 A Correct. 17 smokers. 17 Q All right, sir. You can set that all aside, 18 BY M R PANATIER: 18 please. 19 Q Sir, the lung cancer that was actually reported 19 Okay. So this will be Exhibit 208. 20 in the paper -- you got the actual paper in front o f 20 (Exhibit 208 marked for identification) 21 you -- was observed 8, expected 17.2, observed 4, 21 And, Sharia, I'm going to let you look at it 22 expected 6.1. 22 just because I don't have another copy. 23 And you're telling me that numbers that are 23 MR FROST: Okay. 24 even greater than that for these other cancers that are 24 M R PANATIER: Okay. 25 in the prepublication edition, or the prepublication 25 MRGAFFREY: Is it 209? 66 (Pages 1003 - 1006) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 1007 Page 1009 1 M R PANATIER: 208. 1 Bob Roll called my attention to the enclosed 2 Q Here you go, sir. 2 brochure from DuPont extolling the use o f their DTA for 3 That document is dated 4.5.77; correct? 3 detecting asbestos impurities in talc". 4 A That's the date, yes. 4 So DuPont apparently has a DTA device that 5 Q Okay, and that is the test method -- is it 5 they say: hey, we can find asbestos impurities in this; 6 7019? 6 right? 7 A Yes. 7 A Well, that's w hat DuPont was saying, yes. 8 Q And that's for DTA for finding chrysotile; 8 Q Right. 9 right? 9 And, o f course, Johnson & Johnson has a 10 A It's titled Detection o f Serpentine Minerals in 10 testing m ethod to attem pt to do ju st that; right? 11 W indsor 66 Talc by DTA. 11 A That is apparently the case, yes. 12 Q Right. 12 Q Okay. 13 So it looks like for a time Johnson & Johnson 13 "You will note that they are suggesting its 14 had set up a testing method to do DTA-style testing for 14 use for detection o f chrysotile asbestos". 13 chrysotile; right? 15 Now, that's what you guys had a test method 16 A Yes. 16 for; right? 17 Q W hat is the detection limit for --in its -- 17 A Yeah. Yes, yes. 18 w hat is it called? 18 Q "In view o f your supreme skill in rapping 19 A Differential Thermal Analysis. 19 knuckles, I thought that you m ight want to write one o f 20 Q W hat's the detection limit on that? 20 your masterful letters chastising DuPont for 21 A Well, on page 2 it states: 21 perpetuating a m yth as far as cosmetic talcs are 22 "Approximately 0.5% w/w o f serpentine mineral 22 concerned". 23 m ay be detected by DTA". 23 Right? 24 Q Okay. 24 A Yes. 25 So .5, it's w hat we had for XRD as well; 25 Q So Johnson & Johnson is writing to the CTFA Page 1008 Page 1010 1 right? 1 telling them to go chastise DuPont for advertising a 2 A Yes. 2 DTA machine that they say could find asbestos 3 Q Okay. 3 impurities; right? 4 So at some point Johnson & Johnson thought 4 A Yes. 5 that they could use DTA to look for chrysotile at a 5 Q And that's exactly what Johnson & Johnson was 6 level o f .5 per cent; right? 6 doing internally, was looking with DTA for chrysotile 7 A Yes. 7 impurities; correct? 8 Q Okay. You can set that aside. 8 A There is a test method, Johnson & Johnson. 9 So we've talked about --I've asked you 9 That's what they were doing. 10 whether or not Johnson & Johnson ever tried to 10 Q Okay. 11 interfere w ith scientists, discredit them or anything 11 A O f course, the second attachment that you gave 12 like that, and so that's kind o f what we've been 12 to m e as part o f 209 - 13 talking about here. 13 Q Mmmhmm? 14 This is going to be Exhibit 209. 14 A --says that, as you can see from the attached 15 (Exhibit 209 marked for identification) 15 literature, DuPont is using as a selling point the DTA 16 So this is dated November 22,1977. It is 16 unit for the detection o f asbestos in cosmetic body 17 seven m onths after the docum ent I ju st show ed you; 17 talc. 18 right? 18 Q Right? 19 A Yes. 19 A So I think what he's saying is that they 20 Q This is from George Lee to Norm Estrin, who's 20 shouldn't be doing that. 21 the head o f the CTFA; right? 21 Q W hy? Johnson & Johnson was doing it. 22 A Yes. 22 It's because DuPont was advertising the fact 23 Q And the subject is Dupont Instrument Products 23 that they had a machine that was going to look for 24 Division Literature on DTA Unit: 24 asbestos in talc. 25 "Norm: 25 So Johnson & Johnson wrote to the CTFA and 67 (Pages 1007 - 1010) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 1011 Page 1013 1 said: hey, chastise these guys for perpetuating a myth 1 A Yes. 2 about asbestos in talc; correct? 2 Q Okay. 3 A Yes. 3 Go to the second page: 4 Q Which Johnson & Johnson was studying itself 4 "I spoke with some o f the ASTM and ISO 5 internally? 5 o fficials..." 6 A Yes, and "studying" is the right word. 6 Sorry, I'll wait for you. 7 At that stage, it was probably being the 7 A Thank you. 8 initial evaluation. There was no evidence that it was 8 Q "... about the uncomfortable business aspects 9 actually a fully approved something you would do on 9 o f the recent Paoletti article hoping they might have 10 every batch. 10 some ideas on how to compromise it". 11 But certainly initial evaluation, as I 11 Right? 12 recollect, in 'l l . 12 A That's what it says. 13 Q Are you --are you - is it Johnson & Johnson's 13 Q W e know that Ashton has written to Luzenac 14 testim ony that Johnson & Johnson at no time actually 14 about the Paoletti article and he says that it's 15 used that test method on batches o f talc to look for 15 published by a reputable organization in Rome; right? 16 chrysotile? 16 A Yes. 17 A No, it is not, no. 17 Q And then one month later -- less than a month 18 Q Okay. All right. 18 later, Ashton is saying he's trying to talk to ASTM and 19 This will be Exhibit 210. 19 ISO officials about how to compromise the Paoletti 20 (Exhibit 210 marked for identification) 20 article; right? 21 There you go, sir. 21 A Yeah. 22 This is Bill Ashton, 1984, and he writes to 22 Q That is the second time we have seen Johnson & 23 JP Grange as Luzenac. I think we saw another 23 Johnson individuals talk about compromising people who 24 correspondence to Luzenac maybe yesterday. 24 take roles that are adverse to their business; correct? 25 Luzenac is one o f the names in line with 25 A Yeah. Page 1012 1 Cyprus, Rio Tinto, Imerys; right? 1 2 A Correct. Yes, yes. 2 3 Q Okay. 3 4 Subject is Talc Asbestos, L Paoletti et al. 4 5 That's a paper. 5 6 "Attached is a copy of a paper which is very 6 7 important to the talc industry in your territory. It 7 8 alleges that a substantial number of talcs contain 8 9 fibers and/or asbestos. It is published by a reputable 9 10 organization in Rome. It has just appeared in this 10 11 month's issue of Regulatory Toxicology and Pharmacology 11 12 here in the States". 12 13 He asks do you have any information on what 13 14 prompted this, et cetera; right? 14 15 A Yes. 15 16 Q Okay. 16 17 So that's just for framework. You can see 17 18 that Ashton is concerned about this new paper; right? 18 19 A Yes. 19 20 Q Okay. You can set that aside. 20 21 (Briefly off the record) 21 22 (Exhibit 211 marked for identification) 22 23 Okay. Ashton. Okay. Again, October 23, 23 24 1984. The subject is just Airborne Dust Activities; do 24 25 you see that? 25 Page 1014 Q O kay. Y ou can set that aside, sir. One last little area and m y stack w ill grow no m ore, I prom ise. This w ill be 212. (E xhibit 212 m arked for identification) T here you go, sir. O kay. In y o u r review o f y o u r docum ents, did y o u see this docum ent? It's partially in E nglish, partially in Italian. It's from the Society o f Talc and G raphite in V al Chisone? A N o, I've n o t seen this. Q A ll right. A T his particular. Q G o to the page, at the bottom it's 349. It's 9349. M R FR O ST: Is this num ber 212? M R PANATIER: Yes. THE W ITNESS: Okay. B Y M R PANATIER: Q O kay. See there's a little section: "Im purities Present in Talc The harm ful elem ents according to p h a rm a c o p o e ia a n d c o s m e tic s ... General Rem arks [The] Survey o f the Elem ents Considered 68 (Pages 1011-1014) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 1015 Page 1017 1 Harmful by the Pharmacopoeias and on which Informatio n 1 and they're - they mention chrysotile and tremolite; 2 is Given also in Cosmetological Standards". 2 right? 3 And then if you go down there's another 3 A They mention that, yes, but there are other 4 section, Use o f Talcs in Pinerolo in Pharmaceutic 4 hard silicates. 5 Cosmetic Sector; right? 5 Q I understand. 6 A Yes. 6 And they're talking about those hard 7 Q Okay. 7 silicates being present in the Pinorolo talc; correct? 8 Then if you turn the page, it's got the title 8 A Well, what they're saying here is that talc 9 o f this. I think that's probably the English 9 impurities are classified as including hard silicates, 10 translation, Practical Guide to the R ecognition o f 10 and then on the second page it has to be considered 11 Impurities in Talc. 11 because they're extremely low hard silicate content. 12 Do you see that? 12 Q Yeah, but they're saying the - it says: 13 A Yes. 13 "The talc o f Pinorolo, for cosmetic use, 14 Q Okay. Right, sir. 14 that's m ined from the deposits o f the Val Chisone and 15 Now please turn to 9368, or I'm sorry, 9367. 15 Germanasca valleys in the north western Alps, has to be 16 Okay. It says Use o f Talcs o f Pinorolo in 16 considered as a product o f very high quality because: 17 Pharmaceutic and Cosmetic Sector; right? 17 The hard silicate contents are extremely low 18 A It does, yes. 18 (only tra c e s )..." 19 Q Okay, and then the very next page says: 19 So they're saying there are traces o f these 20 "Talc impurities may be classified as 20 hard silicates - 21 follows: 21 A That's what's written in this translation. 22 Very hard silicates, as chrysotiles and 22 Q - in their talc for cosmetic use; correct? 23 tremolites, o f amphibolitic derivation, namely with 23 A That's what's written in this translation, yes. 24 strict asbestos content". 24 Q All right. 25 Right? 25 That's Exhibit 2013 [sic]. Page 1016 Page 1018 1 A Yes. 1 (Exhibit 213 marked for identification) 2 Q One o f the impurities. That's the first one 2 So, o f course, Johnson & Johnson gets wind of 3 they list; right? 3 this. 4 A Yes. 4 This is written by Bill Ashton, September 24, 5 Q Then go ahead and go to the next page and 5 1974, Confidential; right? 6 there's another highlight there: 6 A Yes. 7 "The talc o f Pinorolo for cosmetic use, 7 Q "Mr G Lee 8 that's m ined from the deposits o f the Chisone and 8 Attached is a copy o f a damaging editorial 9 Germanasca valleys in the north western Alps, has to be 9 reference which states that Italian talc contains 10 considered as a product o f very high quality because: 10 traces o f hard silicates. It defines chrysotile 11 The hard silicate contents are extremely low 11 asbestos as a hard silicate. Obviously, the inference 12 (only tra c e s )..." 12 is that Italian talc contains traces o f chrysotile." 13 Right? 13 Did I read that right? 14 A Yes. 14 A That's - that's what is written. 15 Q A nd you know from the previous page that they 15 Q Okay. You can set that aside. 16 refer to hard silicates as chrysotiles and tremolites; 16 So Ashton is aware o f it at this point? 17 right? 17 A Yes. 18 A Yes, although hard silicates also would include 18 Q And he's M r Talc, as you've said? 19 quartz. W ould certainly include quartz. ,19 A Yes. 20 Q Quartz is a silicate? 20 Q N ext will be Exhibit 2014 [sic]. 21 A Yes. Oh, sorry, no. I'll retract that. Yes. 21 (Exhibit 214 marked for identification) 22 Q Okay. 22 Okay. Personal and Confidential. This is 23 A There are other silicates other than chrysotile 23 written by Ashton; okay? 24 and tremolite. 24 A Yes. 25 Q The term they're using here is "hard silicate" 25 Q Background: 69 (Pages 1015 -1018) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 1019 1 "The SVC publication..." 1 2 That's Society o f Val Chisone; right? 2 3 A Yes, yes. 3 4 Q "... publication was the brainchild o f M r 4 5 Gianfranco Villa son o f the owner o f the Val Chisone 5 6 talc operations." 6 7 So the son wrote that booklet; right? 7 8 A Yes, yes. 8 9 Q "Villa has been preparing the booklet for two 9 10 years and had his heart set upon the idea that it w ould 10 11 raise his personal reputation and talc and business to 11 12 new heights. H e had been following the talc/asbestos 12 13 controversy but only from disconnected pieces which 13 14 came to him through his agent in England or from J& J 14 15 staff. He figured that he has the best talc in the 15 16 world and other talcs had a lot o f asbestos in them so 16 17 he w ould capitalize on the m atter by putting out his 17 18 booklet which w ould force others to assay his talc, 18 19 find [that] his was better, and thereby put him in a 19 20 position to hold the top place in the high grade 20 21 market. 21 22 Villa decided to release the English version 22 23 about three months ago. He instructed his British 23 24 agent Cartwright to publicize it. A t that time he 24 25 visited B ob D ean in E n g la n d ..." 25 Page 1020 1 Now, Bob Dean is with Johnson & Johnson; 1 2 right? 2 3 A Correct. 3 4 Q "... with one of his Italian technicians. He 4 5 had hoped for commendation but came away frustrated and 5 6 mad. He had the impression in England that he was 6 7 being told to withdraw the booklet and reprimand 7 8 whoever put it together. He did not apparently 8 9 disclose that he himselfbad conceived the idea and had 9 10 taken two years to put the booklet together. 10 11 He has been aware of our epidemiological work 11 12 by virtue of the fact that he gives the permission to 12 13 have the records examined for former employee service. 13 14 My impression is that he always thought the study had 14 15 the objective of proving his talc the safest in the 15 16 world (which we find right) but it never occurred to 16 17 him that the study... [would] unearth some surprises." 17 18 Right. Let's go to the bottom of that page; 18 19 okay? 19 20 A Yes. 20 21 Q "Similarly, he tried to get Ferry..." 21 22 This is Don Ferry at Chas Mathieu; correct? 22 23 A Correct. 23 24 Q "... to push the release here i n ... [the US] 24 25 but Ferry did nothing other than send word back that he 25 Page 1021 was going to visit Gianfranco in Italy and bring me along for technical backup." So the son o f the mine owner writes this publication that you and I have looked at; right? A Yes. Q He wants it distributed. W ord gets back to Ashton and Ferry in the US, and they go to Italy to deal with it; right? A Yes. Q Page 2; "Thus it was necessary for us to prepare for a cold reception when visiting the Italian principals and tread with caution on all fronts". Under the heading Deliberations with Gianfranco Villa and Staff, down three quarters o f the way: "Villa then stopped talc talk and ordered lunch sent in during which time all o f us argued for about an hour evaluating the merits o f several bottles of different local wines which appeared out o f nowhere". Now, I understand that's how it goes in Italy. A It's very Italian. Q Right. S o-- Page 1022 A Believe m e, it's very Italian. Q You're hanging out, lunch comes, the wine comes; okay? A Yes, yes. Q "Villa then resumed talc talk by saying that it is not always possible to translate Italian into technical English. He explained that in Italian a trace o f something (such as chrysotile) actually means none at all could be found." Right? A Yes. Q Okay. "In Italian ,... trace m eans none at all, but it always comes out wrong in English." Okay? A Yes. Q So that's w hat he says? A It is, and I speak several languages - some not very well - but many European languages have much - very limited number o f words. Greek* for example, has got so few words it's almost impossible to get an accurate trace. Q If we get to the Greek talc, we'll talk about Greek; okay. A Okay. I'm just using that as an example. 70 (Pages 1019 - 1022) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 1023 Page 1025 1 Q Yeah. 1 their recent publication will have on the world talc 2 A I can see where he's coining from. 2 market. The publication o f the English version is 3 Q Yeah. 3 entitled 'Practical G uide To The Recognition O f 4 "I suggested that a committee be formed which 4 Impurities In Talc'". 5 would compromise M r Ferry, a top mineralogist from 5 Do you see that? 6 either Milan, Bologna or Rome, perhaps a scientist from 6 A Yes. 7 the Colorado School of Mines or the Montana School o f 7 Q Then it says: 8 M ines and that I would represent J&J on the committee 8 "I have assembled the attached technical 9 to help out. I proposed th a t ... comm ittee be 9 support for our deliberations with the Val Chisone 10 organized to carry out the w ork but that it be under 10 staff. I have arranged it in an order which should 11 the guidance o f an Italian business executive to 11 carry the m ost w eight as we proceed from one discussion 12 attack - to act as International President o f the 12 point to the next. The sensitivity and confidentiality 13 C om m ittee..." 13 o f... information are readily apparent. 14 So Johnson & Johnson and Ferry sort o f say, 14 The documents a r e ..." 15 "Let's form a whole committee to address this 15 The second one is: 16 situation"; right? 16 "A statement o f the mineralgica! absence o f 17 A Yes. 17 chrysotile asbestos in the talc mine". 18 Q Okay. 18 Right? 19 A Yes. 19 A Yes. 20 Q "... I proposed that it w ould be m ost effective 20 Q Okay. 21 if Gianfranco V illa w ould be President o f ... [the] 21 So they brought that with them when they 22 Committee to assure maximum benefit to cosmetic talcs 22 went; right? 23 the world over. Gianfranco Villa agreed." 23 A Yes. 24 Decisions Reached: 24 Q So they brought authorities they could show to 25 "Having obtained M r Villa's agreement that 25 M r Villa that says there's no chrysotile here; fair? Page 1024 Page 1026 1 his booklet needed a rewrite the following decisions 1 A Yes. 2 resulted. 2 Q Okay. You can set that aside. 3 He will stop the distribution on his booklet 3 This will be 216. 4 in England and to any English speaking countries. 4 (Exhibit 216 marked for identification) 5 M r Ferry will not release any copies in the 5 This is from Bob Dan to Ashton: 6 USA and [Mr] Villa now understands why he delayed till 6 "Dear Bill..." 7 now. 7 N ovem ber 26, '74, So this is all happening 8 It is up to Mr Ferry and me to cany through 8 in a pretty tight window; right? 9 with how we will revise, rewrite or rearrange the SVC 9 A Yeah. 10 publication for m axim um benefit to all concerned". 10 Q Okay. 11 This is the second time at least we've seen 11 "Dear Bill, 12 Johnson & Johnson rewriting someone's paper for them; 12 Thank you for your telex o f the 20th 13 right? 13 November, indicating that Gianfranco has had second 14 A Yes. It's -- again, it's an Italian paper. 14 thoughts about the publication in the English version 15 He's --he's offering help w ith the translation. 15 o f his booklet. 16 Q Okay. 16 You did a first class job on your visit and I 17 (Briefly o ff the record) 17 am sure that, after suitable amendment and slight 18 This will be Exhibit 215. 18 re-writing, the booklet can be m uch more helpful in 19 (Exhibit 215 marked for identification) 19 establishing the true safety record o f the Val Chisone 20 This is from Ashton to Don Ferry; right? 20 talc. 21 October 14,1974: 21 Attached for your interest is additional 22 "Dear Don, 22 confirmation that we have received via Zach Cartwright 23 Our objective in our upcoming visit to the 23 that Val Chisone have withdrawn their booklet. 24 Val Chisone --to Val Chisone --to the staff o f Val 25 Chisone is to forestall the upsetting impact which 24 Thanks again for keeping me in the picture 25 it 71 (Pages 1023 - 1026) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 1027 Page 1029 1 Bob Dean; right? 1 A - what M r Villa thought "trace" means. 2 A Yes. 2 Q Right. 3 Q So Johnson & Johnson went to Val Chisone, they 3 So this is from --you can see at the top, 4 had a meeting with Val Chisone, they drank a lot of 4 TALCOSVC? 5 wine. At the end o f the meeting, Gianfranco agreed to 5 A Yes. 6 withdraw the booklet and to allow Johnson & Johnson to 6 Q Society o f Val Chisone; right? 7 revise/rewrite it; correct? 7 A Yes. 8 A Yes. 8 Q And-- 9 Q Okay. 9 W hoever is on the phone, go ahead and mute 10 A A slight rewrite, it says here, yeah. 10 your phone, please. 11 Q Well, he says: 11 And it says now --this m ay be a European way 12 "... after suitable am endm ent and slight 12 o f listing dates, I'm not sure, but up at the top it 13 re-w riting..." 13 says 8.17, and then down under "DA VALCHISONE A 14 Right? 14 CARTW RIGHT", it says - 1 think that means "Telex" - 15 A Yes, yeah. 15 A Yes. 16 Q The part they were concerned about was w here it 16 Q 1400/74? 17 talked about chiysotile; right? 17 A Yeah. 18 A Yes. 18 Q W hat I can put together from this is this is 19 Q Okay. You can set that aside. 19 some tim e in 1974, b u t ... 20 Now, this is technically at the end o f my 20 A Yeah. 21 documents, but you said something about how you agree< 21 Q Okay? 22 with Mr Gianfranco that, in Italian, because you speak 22 A Could be. 23 several languages, "trace" means none; right? 23 Q All right. 24 A Put it the other way around. 24 Here's what it says: 25 If M r Gianfranco says "none", he may well 25 ''Re[garding] our visit to Portsmouth, Page 1028 Page 1030 1 have used the word "trace" as a mistranslation and 1 requested by Johnson yesterday and today we have had 2 that's w hat M r Gianfranco states. 2 the visit o f M r William H Ashton, Director o f the 3 Q Right. 3 Research Division of Johnson and Johnson USA. 4 A Franco Villa states. 4 W e have discussed the contents o f tremolite 5 Q You told me, from your knowledge of languages, 5 in our talc. In our booklet we speak of'traces'. By 6 that that is what you believed happened; right? 6 this word we mean 'a few parts on a million' whilst the 7 A Ido,yes. 7 Americans by this word mean a percentage till 8 Q Okay. 8 2 per cent. You see the discussion is about the 9 So I actually have a document that speaks to 9 meaning o f the word 'traces"'. 10 that, but it's in there. So w e have to take a break 10 Right? 11 for me to get that document. 11 A Yes. 12 Let's just run o ff real fast. 12 Q So this Italian clarifies exactly what we've 13 (O ff the record at 3:59 pm) 13 been talking about; right? 14 (On the record at 4:03 pm) 14 A Yes. Now he's talking about tremolite. 15 BY M R PANATIER: 15 Q Right, but - but it says what they mean by 16 Q Sir, have you read any depositions in the Lanzo 16 "traces". 17 case? 17 They don't mean zero, do they? 18 A No. 18 A Well, this individual, M r Ruddier Ldno, he's 19 Q Okay. 19 saying that it m eans a few parts per million. 20 This will be Exhibit 217. 20 Q Okay. 21 (Exhibit 217 marked for identification) 21 A few parts per million is not zero? 22 We were talking about what "trace" means; 22 A Correct. 23 right? 23 Q And in fact we've seen lots o f references, to 24 A Y es,w ell-- 24 when you're talking about something with trillions upon 25 Q Okay. 25 trillions o f individual particles, a few parts per 72 (Pages 1027 - 1030) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 1031 Page 1033 1 million can mean hundreds o f millions or billions in 1 A He's obviously got very strong feelings about 2 that small container; right? 2 what he describes as the quality o f the work as being 3 A It may do. 3 erroneous and intentionally misleading. 4 Q Okay. 4 Q Okay. 5 All right, sir. You can set that aside, 5 A That's his opinion. 6 please. 6 Q Yeah. 7 And then this is the other one that we didn't 7 And so did Johnson & Johnson instruct the 8 have printed before. This is 218. 8 Colorado men at this point, as they did in 1971, to go 9 (Exhibit 218 marked for identification) 9 and work with the --Rohl and Langer at Mount Sinai to 10 Going back to the Colorado School o f Mines, 10 w ork through the issues, as they did with the Bowling 11 lastly. 11 Green paper? 12 W e're kind o f talking about how they've been 12 A I don't believe they did that, no. 13 used by Johnson & Johnson to go and --I don't know -- 13 Q Okay. 14 deal with other researchers; right? 14 Is the Rohl and Langer paper still published? 15 A Well, that's your word. 15 A There is a --there is a Rohl and Langer paper 16 I would --I would argue that one o f the 16 published. 17 roles o f Colorado School o f M ines is to provide expert 17 Q Okay? 18 opinion. 18 A I don't know if it's the exact same title, but 19 Q Okay. 19 I do recollect there is a Rohl and Langer paper 20 Well, here's one o f their experts opinions 20 published in '76. 21 perhaps that we can explore. They're talking about the 21 Q Did -- did Art Langer or Rohl or Selikoff or 22 Rolle paper. This is June 4,1976; right? 22 any o f the authors there ever write to the journal 23 A Yes. 23 where it was published and say: we w ere wrong and we're 24 Q And I asked you, I said Rolle and Langer 24 sorry? 25 published a paper in '76 about what they found in 25 A I don't know if they ever wrote to the journal, Page 1032 Page 1034 1 consumer talcum powders; right? 1 no. 2 A They did, yes. 2 Q Okay. All right. 3 Q Okay. 3 To your knowledge, the paper has never been 4 So he's writing to - Jerry Krause from 4 withdrawn; correct? 5 Colorado School o f Mines is writing to W illiam Ashton; 5 A That's, to m y knowledge, correct. 6 right? 6 Q Okay. 7 A Yes. 7 Is the Colorado School o f Mines still a 8 Q And he says: 8 consultant to Johnson & Johnson? 9 "Enclosed are my comments on the paper by 9 A I don't know the answer to that. 10 Rohl, [and] L an g e r..." 10 Q All right. 11 Right? 11 A I don't know. 12 "I could have gone on almost indefinitely 12 Q And, lastly, with regard to the -- to any o f 13 commenting on errors in the paper but felt that to do 13 the --any o f the periodic testing that Johnson & 14 so w ould have been a waste. 14 Johnson did at any time, okay, I think you said that 15 I do feel that I have destroyed the 15 you believed there was periodic testing starting in 16 analytical basis o f the paper, and I think that the 16 '49; right? 17 conclusions the authors have drawn are invalid. It is 17 A Yes. 18 m y o p in io n ... the paper is not worthy o f publication. 18 Q And it would have been by batch? 19 I feel even stronger: to m e the paper is erroneous and 19 A Yes. 20 intentionally misleading and should be banned from 20 Q And would that have carried through, let's take 21 publication i f possible." 21 it up to '70 -- w ould that have carried through through 22 Do you know if it was ever banned, sir? 22 70? 23 A I'm sure it was not. 23 A I f the talc was being imported from Italy up 24 Q Does M r Krause seem like an objective scientist 24 until '68 the --m y records, from m y memory, is that it 25 at this point? 25 was coming in in hundred pound sacks. 73 (Pages 1031 - 1034) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 1035 Page 1037 1 And there was a sampling process whereby a 1 Q Okay. 2 certain number o f sacks were selected, and maybe one in 2 A Yeah, I can't be sure as to where the records 3 five, and they were evaluated. 3 went from a separate that was sold -- 4 Q Okay. 4 Q Sorry to interrupt you. 5 A So, to answer your question, there w as a -- 5 (Reporter clarification) 6 there was a process in place to evaluate batches. 6 A That was sold. The company was sold later. 7 Q Okay, and I guess w hat I'm asking is: did that 7 Q Okay. 8 occur from the late '40s through 1970? 8 A nd to the extent that any --any lots o f 9 A That is the --that is the belief that I have, 9 talc were tested and there was a positive XRD for 10 yes. 10 amphibole m inerals at any time, was that lot placed on 11 Q Right. 11 hold before it was used? 12 As you sit here today, you are unaware o f the 12 A The way the testing would have been done was it 13 whereabouts o f those test results; correct? 13 w ould not have been --it w ould not have been filled. 14 A That is correct, yes. 14 Q So if a lot was positive just by XRD, it would 15 Q D o you have any reason or explanation w hy we 15 have been rejected? 16 don't have those? 16 A T h a t- - that is my belief. 17 A I don't. I can hypothesize and say that maybe 17 Q Okay. 18 they were with the importer. 18 A Okay. 19 Is it Chas Mathieu? Yeah. 19 Q And by XRD, you're just detecting the mineral 20 Q Okay? 20 presence; correct? 21 A They may well have kept the records, but I 21 A Correct, yes. 22 don't know. 22 Q But that was grounds at J&J for rejection; is 23 Q All right 23 that true? 24 A I mean, if we're going back to, you know, 24 A That is the specification. 25 1950s, '60s, yeah, I've not necessarily -- I've not 25 Q Now, I asked you, and we have not sat down and Page 1036 Page 1038 1 seen those records, not for batch testing. 1 counted the number o f talc --total talc particles in a 2 But, as I said earlier, my understanding, 2 bottle o f --8 ounce bottle o f Johnson's Baby Powder, 3 speaking to M r Ashton, is that it was a regular 3 have we? 4 occurrence. 4 A No. 5 Q Right. 5 Q But I think yesterday I asked you, we're 6 And then did that stay a regular occurrence 6 talking easily into the trillions, probably numbers we 7 through the mid-'70s, through 1975? 7 don't know the name for, septillions, octillions; 8 A That is my impression, yes. 8 right? 9 Q Okay. 9 A Possibly, yes. 10 Now, have you personally laid eyes on any of 10 Q Okay. 11 those test results from regular batch testing, as 11 But if we're talking about --I got my 12 you've described it to me? 12 calculator out, because I ju st wanted to sort o f get an 13 A No, I have not, no. 13 idea o f w hat w e w ere talking about here. 14 Q All right. 14 If we just have something that's 1 15 A But, again, I wouldn't necessarily have asked 15 trillion -- okay, the num ber 1 trillion. W e have 1 16 to see those - those figures. 16 trillion particles, and .0 - well, 1 trillion, let me 17 Q If Johnson & Johnson had those, w ould you have 17 get it back --.0001 per cent o f that is chrysotile, we 18 expected those to have been produced in that giant dump 18 could figure out how m any o f those particles would be 19 o f paper that w e got? 19 asbestos; right? 20 A It depends where they were. 20 A You can do the math, yes. 21 If they were with Johnson & Johnson or with 21 Q Okay. 22 the mine in Vermont, if we're talking post-1968, they 22 And i f I w anted to know what .001 per cent 23 m ay not have been in the possession o f Johnson & 23 was, I would just multiply a trillion times .001; 24 Johnson, because the Vermont mine was essentially run 24 right? 25 as a separate company. 25 A Well, per cent is per hundred, so you've got to 74 (Pages 1035 - 1038) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 1039 Page 1041 1 p ut another 0 in - tw o 0s in. 1 All rig h t Thank you, Daniel. 2 Q So if it's .00001; right? 2 Then, Sharia, you want to memorialize our 3 A Yes. 3 agreement? 4 Q Okay. 4 MS FROST: Yes. 5 I'm ju st picking a super-low num ber out o f -- 5 W e have reached agreement with Plaintiffs' 6 out of my head. 6 counsel M r Panatier and his partner Ms Kagan that in 7 A Okay. 7 connection with the documents used in the deposition 8 Q So let's m ultiply it tim es - ju st to see w hat 8 that Johnson & Johnson will agree to stipulate to the 9 it comes out at, .00001 per cent; okay? 9 authenticity o f those documents which have a Johnson & 10 W ell, that's n o t p er cent. T hat's one 10 Johnson Bates num ber on them. 11 10,000th; right? 11 As to business records, Johnson & Johnson 12 A Yes. 12 will agree to stipulate to the business records 13 Q W e get 10 million; right? 13 position o f documents that have a Johnson & Johnson 14 A Yes. 14 Bates stamp num ber on them with the exception o f the 15 Q So even if --even if there were only 1 15 emails, for which w e w ill have a separate m eet and 16 trillion particles in a container and it w as .00001 16 confer. 17 chrysotile, w e w ould still have ten m illion fibers of 17 M R PANATIER: That's all correct, and just to 18 chrysotile; right? 18 be very clear on the business records stipulation, what 19 A By your maths, yes. 19 Johnson & Johnson is agreeing to is that they do meet 20 Q A nd that -- that w as a calculator. Y ou don't 20 the business records exception for hearsay. 21 disagree w ith that math, do you? 21 M R FROST: That is correct. 22 A I don't agree with the math, no - disagree 22 M R PANATIER: Okay. That's all agreeable. 23 w ith the math, no. 23 W as there anything else? 24 Q Okay. All right. 24 M R FROST: There is. 25 A n d then I kind o f threw out, y o u know , a 25 The parties agree to relieve the court Page 1040 Page 1042 1 trillion particles, but as a scientist can you give us 1 reporter o f her statutory duty to maintain the original 2 a ballpark o f how many particles o f -- total particles 2 copy o f the transcript in connection with the 3 o f talc you think are in one bottle o f 8 ounce 3 California cases, and Plaintiffs' counsel have agreed 4 Johnson's Baby Powder? 4 to maintain the original. To the extent that the 5 A That could take quite some time. 5 original is ever lost, the parties will agree to use a 6 You'd need to work out how many particles 6 copy, so long as it is a complete copy. 7 were in a gram or a tenth o f a gram, and then work up 7 The parties also agree that, for purposes o f 8 the numbers. 8 motion practice, that a rough draft copy o f the 9 It's not something I could do, you know, 9 transcript may be used until there is a receipt o f the 10 right now. 10 finalized certified copy o f the transcript. 11 Q Sure. 11 M R PANATIER: And, furthermore, Johnson & 12 But it's always been Johnson & Johnson's 12 Johnson extended our agreed time today. In exchange 13 policy that the total num ber o f fibers o f asbestos in 13 for that, I agreed that in our four cases, the SGPB 14 Johnson's baby powder be 0.0; correct? 14 cases, I w ould not ask to further depose the corporate 15 A Yes. 15 representative any further in those cases. 16 M R PA N A TIER : Okay. Let's go o ff the record 16 The only contingency would be that if Johnson 17 and w e'll talk about our stipulations together. 17 & Johnson produces any further documents in any o f 18 (O ff the record at 4:15 pm) 18 those cases, we would m eet and confer about a limited 19 (On the record at 4:24 pm) 19 further deposition, and the circumstances o f how that 20 M R LATERRA: We're not going to have any 20 deposition would take place would be part o f that meet 21 questions at this time. Again, this is Dan LaTerra for 21 and confer. 22 Stephen and Kendra Lanzo from Levy Knigsberg. 22 M R FROST: That is correct. That is our 23 MRPANATIER: Okay. 23 agreement. 24 For the Lanzo case. That was Levy 24 We also agreed amongst the parties that the 25 Knigsberg. 25 stipulation between Johnson & Johnson and Plaintiff 75 (Pages 1039 - 1042) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 1043 Page 1045 1 counsel to postpone the making and lodging o f any 1 2 objections would extend to all the Defendants present, 2 EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE 3 so that no party has waived any objections to any part 3 Exhibit 158....... Memo to File from Nashed (J&J) 4 o f the questioning or to any o f the documents by virtue 4 Re Talc/Asbestos Bureau of Mines 5 o f having not lodged the objection at the time in the 5 Meeting - Pfizer Comments 6 deposition. 7 M R PANATIER: That's agreeable. 8 MR GAFFREY: Thank you. 9 M R FROST: Finally, Plaintiffs' counsel will 10 m ark the flip-chart that he has been preparing as part 11 o f die deposition as an exhibit and w ill take 12 photographs o f the flip-chart pages w hich w ill be 13 provided to the court reporter to include as part o f 14 the transcript. 15 That chart in its entirety will be identified 16 as Exhibit num ber 219. 17 M R PANATIER: M m m hmm . Yeah. 6 JNJNL61_8745.......................... 769 7 Exhibit 159....... Letter Goudie (J&J) to Gaughran 8 And Shelley (J&J) Re Purchase of a 9 Transmission Electron Microscope 10 Plus Attachments /JNJMX68_17515....... 772 11 12 Exhibit 160....... Letter Shelley (J&J) to Warner (J&J) 13 Re Talc/Asbestos Patents 14 JNJAZ55_14444.........................775 15 Exhibit 161....... Letter Marks (J&J) to Marshall (J&J) 16 Re Johnson's Baby Powder - Support 17 Argonaut Talc - Alternative Supply 18 JNJMX68_8964......................... 779 18 I think that's everything. W e're off the 19 19 record. Exhibit 162....... J4-1 /JNJNL61 53222.................... 780 20 (W hereupon the deposition was adjourned at 4:28 pm ) 20 21 21 22 22 23 23 24 24 25 25 Page 1044 Page 1046 1 INDEX 1 2 PAGE 2 EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE 3 WITNESS: DR JOHN HOPKINS (Recalled)........................ 754 3 Exhibit 163....... Letter Schelz (J&J) to Petterson (CTFA) 4 Examination by MR PANATIER (Continued)....................... 754 4 Re Progress Report to CTFA Scientific 5 5 Advisory Committee Concerning Task Force 6 6 On Round Robin Testing of Consumer 7 EXHIBITS 7 Talcum Products 8 EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE 8 JNJNL61_21796......................... 785 9 Exhibit 155...... Memo Zeitz to Miller of Windsor 9 Exhibit 164....... Letter Schelz (J&J) to Estrin (CTFA) 10 Minerals re codes for industrial 10 Re Round Robin 11 vs Cosmetic VT /JNJMX68_2659........... 755 11 JNJNL61_20469...........................788 12 Exhibit 156...... Letter Russell to Nashed Re 12 Exhibit 165...... Letter Schelz (J&J) to Round 13 Examination of Johnson & Johnson 13 Robin Participants Re results 14 Italian Talcs /JNJAZ55J0 6 7 7 ...........767 14 JNJNL61_20544...........................794 15 Exhibit 157...... Letter Ashton (J&J) to Lee, et al 15 Exhibit 166..... Mort Westman Minutes CTFA Task 16 (J&J) Re Italian Talc for Johnson's 16 Force on Round Robin Testing of 17 Baby Powder Initial Shipments/ 17 Consumer Talcum Products for 18 Specifications JNJAZ55_24.............. 769 18 Asbestiform Amphibole Minerals 19 19 JNJNL61_20521........................... 798 20 20 Exhibit 167..... Letter Lee (J&J) to Johnston (J&J) 21 21 Re Status Report - Defense of Talc 22 22 Safety 23 23 JNJMX68J3482........................... 806 24 24 25 25 76 (Pages 1043 - 1046) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 1047 Page 1049 1 1 2 EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE 2 EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE 3 Exhibit 168....... Specification Change Request to 3 Exhibit 180. ...... Joan Casalvieri email Re Materials 4 Include a requirement for the 4 Being considered as a Potential 5 Absence of asbestos in Windsor 5 Carcinogen 6 66 Talc 6 JNJNL61 101025....................... 878 7 JNJMX68 18543.......................... 810 7 Exhibit 181. ...... Talc CTFA Specification 8 Exhibit 169....... J&J Standard Test Method re 8 JNJNL61 117787....................... 883 9 Determination o f Asbestos Minerals 9 Exhibit 182. ...... Memo Shelley (J&J) to Fuller (J&J) 10 In Windsor 66 Talc by TEM 10 May 3,1972 11 JNJMX68 3579........................... 814 11 JNJAZ55 4959......................... 886 12 Exhibit 170. ...... Letter Palenik (McCrone) to Aizapalo (J&J) 12 Exhibit 183. ...... Letter Dean (J&J) to Shelley (J&J) 13 Re TEM limit o f detection 0.1% 13 Re follow up on talc meeting 14 JNJMX68 3699........................... 818 14 April 28,1972 15 Exhibit 171. ...... J&J Contract Manufacturing Audit Report 15 JNJAZ55 6008......................... 888 16 For RJ Lee 16 Exhibit 184. ...... Memo Ashton (J&J) to Hildick-Smith (J&J) 17 JNJNL61 5496........................... 820 17 Re Italian Talc Safety Case Histories of 18 Exhibit 172....... Letter Waggoner (J&J) to Wurster 18 Talc Workers Society of Talc and Graphite 19 (USP re "Do not inhale1' statement 19 Val Chisone, Pinerolo, Italy 20 JNJNL61 20359.......................... 827 20 JNJAZ55 8888......................... 896 21 Exhibit 173....... CTFA Minutes Talc Task Force on 21 Exhibit 185. ......Letter Hildick-Smith (J&J) to 22 Round Robin Testing 22 Dean (J&J) Re Talc Symposium 23 JNJNL61 20414.......................... 830 23 JNJAZ55 6193......................... 899 24 24 25 25 Page 1048 Page 1050 1 1 2 EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE 2 EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE 3 Exhibit 174 ....... Memo Gallagher (J&J) to 3 Exhibit 186. ....... Asbestos Impurities in Commercial 4 Jones (J&J) Re Summary o f Raw 4 Talcum Powders, The Compass: Sigma 5 Materials and Finished Product 5 Gamma Epsilon article 6 Testing for Baby Powder Talc 6 JNJMX68 7031........................ 901 7 JNJAZ55 13621; JNJMX68 439............ 833 7 Exhibit 187. ....... Memo Ashton (J&J) to Petterson (J&J) 8 8 Re Talc/Asbestos 9 Exhibit 175........ Luzenae America Inc. West Windsor 9 JNJAZ55 1866........................ 905 10 Mill Schematic 10 Exhibit 188. ....... Memo Caneer (Colorado School of Mines) 11 JNJMX68 1483; 1313.................... 841 11 To Ashton (J&J) Re Meeting with 12 Exhibit 176 ....... Talc - FDA's Perspective by 12 Bowling Green Geological Staff 13 John Gasper J.D. (PowerPoint) 13 JNJAZ55 1871......................... 907 14 No Bates.............................. 853 14 Exhibit 189. ....... Confidential Talc - UK Work Status 15 Exhibit 177 ....... FDA Talc Submissions (July 7, 15 1.6.73, IW Sloan 16 1971 - October 1, 1979) 16 JNJAZ55 5084........................ 916 17 JNJNL61 13350......................... 857 17 Exhibit 190. ....... Memo Ashton (J&J) to DRP Re 18 Exhibit 178 ....... Material Specification Luzenae 18 Happenings Week of 10/8, FDA 19 America, Inc. Windsor Grade 66 19 Lewin Report 20 Talc 20 JNJMX68 10778........................ 926 21 JNJNL61 112140........................ 867 21 Exhibit 191. ...... Memo Petterson (J&J) to Hildick- 22 Exhibit 179 ...... "Adding TEM to the Global Talc 22 Smith (J&J) Re Epidemiological 23 Specification" P PT by M cC arthy 23 Study of Workers in Italian Talc 24 Of J&J 24 Mines 25 JNJNL61 112140........................ 869 25 JNJAZ55 2042......................... 930 77 (Pages 1047 - 1050) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 1051 Page 1053 1 1 2 EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE 2 EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE 3 Exhibit 192. ...... Memo Hildick-Smith (J&J) to 3 Exhibit 202. ....... Rubino, Mortality and Morbidity 4 Petterson (I&J) Re Epidemiological 4 Among Talc Miners and Millers in 5 Study of Italian Talc Mine 5 Italy 6 JNJAZ55 1583......................... 933 6 JNJNL61 53191........................ 973 7 Exhibit 193. ...... Memo Hildick-Smith (J&J) to 7 Exhibit 203. ....... Letter Hildick-Smith (J&J) to 8 Petterson (J&J) Re Epidemiological 8 Prof. Rubino, Turin, Italy 9 Study of the Cause of Death in 9 JNJAZ55 9126......................... 975 10 Italian Talc Miners 10 Exhibit 204. ....... Letter Hildick-Smith (J&J) to 11 JNJAZ55 1607......................... 936 11 Stefano, Monte Carlo, Monaco 12 Exhibit 194. ...... Memo Ashton (J&J) to Hildick- 12 JNJAZ55 9127......................... 980 13 Smith (J&J) Re Italian Talc 13 Exhibit 205. ....... Memo Hildick-Smith (J&J) to 14 Epidemiological Studies Val 14 Lee (J&J) Re Talc Study - 15 Chisone, Pinerolo, University 15 Prof. Rubino 16 O f Turin, Turino, Italy 16 JNJAZ55 9057......................... 983 17 JNJAZ55 9380......................... 939 17 Exhibit 206. ....... Letter Hildick-Smith (J&J) to 18 Exhibit 195. ...... Letter Hildick-Smith (J&) to 18 Stefano, Monte Carlo, Monaco 19 Prof Rubino, University of 19 JNJAZ55 9050.........................985 20 Turin, June 26,1974 20 Exhibit 207. ....... Rubino, Mortality and Morbidity 21 JNJAZ55 9378......................... 943 21 Among Talc Miners and Millers in 22 Exhibit 196. ...... Letter Donald Ferry (Charles 22 Italy 23 Mathieu) to Ashton (J&J) 23 No Bates............................. 993 24 August 28,1974 24 25 JNJAZ55 1588......................... 950 25 Page 1052 Page 1054 1 1 2 EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE 2 EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE 3 Exhibit 197. ....... Memo Ashton (J&J) to Hildick- 3 Exhibit 208. ...... Standard Test Method - Detection 4 Smith (J&J) Re Italian Talc 4 O f Serpentine Minerals in Windsor 5 Studies Visit to Prof Rubino 5 66 Talc by Differential Thermal 6 University of Turin, Italy 6 Analysis 7 JNJAZ55 1096........................ 954 7 JNJMX68 11557......................... 1006 8 Exhibit 198. ....... Memo Hildick-Smith (J&J) to 8 Exhibit 209. ...... Memo Lee (J&J) to Estrin (CTFA) 9 Lee (J&J) Re Talc - Rubino 9 Re DuPont Instrument Products 10 Manuscript 10 Division Literature on DTA Unit 11 JNJAZ55 9265........................ 960 11 JNJNL61 20439......................... 1008 12 Exhibit 199. ....... Memo to file, Waggoner (J&J) Re 12 Exhibit 210....... Letter Ashton (J&J) to Grange 13 Meeting with FDA, November 6,1974 13 (Luzenac) Re Talc Asbestos 14 JNJNL61 7290........................ 962 14 L Paoletti, et al 15 Exhibit 200. 15 JNJNL61 6............................. 1011 16 Talc Study - International Cost 16 Exhibit 211. ...... Memo Ashton (J&J) to Semple, Jones, 17 Sharing Project No. 0503.01 17 Kohler, Olcott Re Airborne Dust 18 JNJAZ55 10706....................... 967 18 Activities ASTM & ISO Meetings 19 Exhibit 201. ....... Memo Ashton (J&J) to Lee (J&J) 19 Montreal 10/14-10/18/84 20 Re Talc Discussions with Prof. 20 JNJNL61 126........................... 1012 21 Rubino, Turin, Italy, November 5, 21 Exhibit 212 ...... "Impurities Present In Talc ..." 22 1975, Project No. 0503.01 22 JNJAZ55 9347......................... 1014 23 JNJAZ55 9160........................ 969 23 Exhibit 213. ....... Confidential Memo Ashton (J&J) to 24 24 Lee (J&J), September 24,1974 25 25 JNJMX68 9499......................... 1018 78 (Pages 1051 - 1054) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 Page 1055 Page 1057 1 2 EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION 1 PAGE 2 CERTIFICATE OF COURT REPORTER 3 Exhibit 214......... Personal and Confidential, 3 I, DEIRDRA JORDAN, an Accredited Court Reporter, 4 Ashton (J&J) 4 hereby certify that the testimony o f the witness, JOHN 5 JNJAZ55J101....................... 1018 6 Exhibit 215......... Letter Ashton (J&J) to Ferry 5 HOPKINS, in the foregoing transcript taken on 6 Thursday, August 17,2017, was recorded by me in 7 (Chas Mathieu Company) 7 machine shorthand and was thereafter transcribed by 8 October 14,1974 8 me; and that the foregoing transcript is a true and 9 JNJAZ55 81......................... 1024 9 accurate verbatim record o f the said testimony. 10 Exhibit 216......... Letter Dean (J&J) to Ashton (J&J), 10 11 November 26,1974 11 12 JNJAZ55_9314........................ 1026 12 I further certify that I am not a relative, employee, 13 Exhibit 217......... Telex from Ruddier Ldno Re "trace" 13 counsel or financially involved with any o f the 14 In Italian 14 parties to the w ithin cause, nor am I an employee or 15 JNJAZ55_9320........................ 1028 15 relative o f any counsel for the parties, nor am I in 16 Exhibit 218........ Letter Krause (Colorado School) to 16 any w ay interested in the outcome o f the w ithin cause. 17 Ashton (J&J) Re Rohl & Langer 17 18 1976 18 19 JN JN L 6 1 J6 3 1 ........................ 1031 19 Signed: .......................... 20 Exhibit 219........ Flip-chart Visual 20 Name: DEIRDRA JORDAN 21 No Bates 21 Date: .......................... 22 22 23 23 24 24 25 25 Page 1056 1 CERTIFICATE OF DEPONENT 1 ERRATA SHEET Priority-One Court Reporting/Veritext 22 718-983-1234 ASSIGNMENT NO. Pl-2657980 3 I, JO H N HOPKIN S, hereby certify that I have read the 3 CASE NAME: Herford, Verdolotti, Teuscher & Etheridge v. foregoing pages, numbered 1 through 297, o f my Asbestos/Johnson & Johnson DATE OF DEPOSITION: 8/17/2017 4 deposition o f testimony taken in these proceedings on 4 WITNESS' NAME: Dr. John Hopkins Vol 3 Thursday, August 17,2017, and, with the exception o f 5 the changes listed on the next page and/or PAGE/LINE(S)/ CHANGE REASON /___ /______ /____ corrections, if any, find them to be a true and 6 accurate transcription thereof. 7 8 9 10 11 Signed: .......................... 12 Name: JO HN HOPKINS 13 Date: .......................... 14 15 16 17 18 19 19 / / / 20 20 Dr. John Hopkins Vol 3 21 (Notary not required in California) SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO 22 BEFORE ME THIS DAY 23 OF______________, 2017. 24 24 NOTARY PUBLIC 25 25 MY COMMISSION EXPIRES Page 1058 79 (Pages 1055 - 1058) Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 1 CERTIFICATE OF COURT REPORTER 2 3 I, DEIRDRA JORDAN, an Accredited Court Reporter, 4 hereby certify t h a t th testimony of the witness, JOHN '5 HOPKINS, in/'t^^ 'fregOin\t^l|hscr!ipt/tahew oh -.." 6 Thursday, jAugust 17, 207/ /'was.recorded by mein 7 machine shorthand and was thereafter transcribed by 8 me) and that the forfQihg transcript is true and 9 ^-ancvnjit verhatim'roord^Of the said testimony.' h ... : ': ; 12 .I further certify t ^ t l m n@t a relative, employee, 13 counsel or financially involved with any of the 14 parties to the within cause, nor am, I an employee or 15 relative of any cbuiisel for the parties, nOr am I in 16 any way interested in the outcome of th within cause. ;1 7 . 18 19 signed: 20 Na^fe: 21 Date; 23 24 25 B B SS* [& -1 0 3 1 ] Page 1 & & 746:16 747:10 748:10 749:9 750:8,12,13,17,18 751:8,13,19 752:2 752:6,12,16,20,24 753:2,11,14 763:19 764:11 771:24 772:2 774:1 777:25 783:20 787:3 788:23 789:1,21 790:7 792:24 794:17 795:1,10 796:3 804:2 805:21 806:11 807:3 809:24 810:21 812:19 815:6,18,20 818:4 818:18 819:6 820:2 821:5,13 824:4,23 825:18 826:22 827:18 829:8,23 831:18 831:20,22 839:15 840:3,4,7 843:10 844:13 845:15,17 845:24 846:8,19 851:4 852:17,20 853:10,16,18 856:6,13 857:21 857:24 858:10,13 858:14 859:2,5,6 859:20 862:20 863:11 864:2 865:2 866:22 867:3,13 869:12 870:17 874:19 877:9 879:11 880:6 881:19,25 882:23 884:1,8 887:12 889:1 890:14 891:6,22 891:24 894:9 895:3,3 896:7 897:12 902:22 904:21 905:20,25 906:15 907:2 908:14 910:6,13 912:1,24 914:9 917:23 920:12 922:15 935:1,3 937:14 938:17 939:13,17 941:4 941:22 942:2 943:15,24 944:20 950:3,7,18 953:14 955:22 956:11 957:3 959:15 960:12,22,24 961:25 963:1 965:3 966:8 968:4 973:17 975:23 977:5,11,22 978:1 978:16 980:8 981:23 982:23 987:17 1007:13 1008:4,10 1009:9 1009:25 1010:5,8 1010:21,25 1011:4 1011:13,14 1013:22 1018:2 1020:1 1023:14 1024:12 1027:3,6 1031:13 1033:7 1034:8,13 1036:17 1036:21,23 1040:12 1041:8,9 1041:11,13,19 1042:11,17,25 1044:13 1054:18 1055:17 1058:3,3 _____________0 ____________ 0 1038:16 1039:1 0.0 1040:14 0.1 1047:13 0.5 1007:22 000 767:21,21 00000 767:21,22 768:3 769:19 896:4 919:11 00001 1039:2,9,16 0001 819:9 1038:17 0009 826:15 001 863:19,25 1038:22,23 006 756:10 01 1001:25 05 1001:24 1002:7 1002:23 1004:5,9 0503.01 1052:17 1052:22 07932-1047 753:13 08903 750:19 09 854:16 0932-17 747:6 Os 1039:1_______ _____________ 1 ____________ 1 757:8 762:5,10 763:10 789:15,17 790:25 792:8 798:23 801:17 817:8 818:25 842:12 864:3 930:18 931:6 967:25 986:4 990:10 998:23 1000:25 1001:2 1004:2 1005:11 1038:14,15,15,16 1039:15 1048:16 1056:3 1,500 941:2 1,600 940:8 1.1.6. 918:24 1.2 989:9 1.5 831:6 832:15 832:23 1.6.73 930:17 1050:15 1.6.73. 916:20 10 756:7 762:9 833:18 868:8 873:18 942:18 945:7,9 1039:13 10,000 836:23 10,000th 1039:11 10-7 780:16 10-7-76 780:17 10.27.72 864:12 10.27.72. 864:8 10/14-10/18/84 1054:19 10/8 1050:18 100 752:8,13 869:3 1000 751:9 10005 752:9 10022 751:4 1006 1054:7 1008 1054:11 101025 1049:6 1011 1054:15 1012 1054:20 1014 1054:22 1018 1054:25 1055:5 1024 1055:9 1026 1055:12 1028 1055:15 1031 1055:19 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [10677 -196] Page 2 10677 1044:14 10706 1052:18 10778 1050:20 108 932:8 108t 913:10 109 942:18 1096 1052:7 109t 913:10 11 770:1 771:17 772:18 815:13 11.20.89. 838:8 11.5.75 765:4 11.5.75. 866:2 1101 1055:5 111 932:8 112140 1048:21,25 1152 752:3 11557 1054:7 117787 1049:8 11:03 814:20 11:16 814:21 11th 751:4 12 769:6 830:8 842:11,12 933:21 12,500 940:3 123 753:3 126 1054:20 12:26 886:7 13 830:8 13,000 968:23 1313 1048:11 13350 1048:17 13482 1046:23 13621 1048:7 14 800:18 822:11 936:16 939:6 1024:21 1055:8 1400/74 1029:16 144 868:8 14444 1045:14 1483 1048:11 15 821:6 853:8 945:7,9,15 948:9 948:11 152 1001:11 15222 751:10 155 755:2,3 758:4 758:6 763:2 1044:9 156 767:17,18 1044:12 157 769:1,2,3,4 1044:15 158 768:25 769:23 769:24 1045:3 1583 1051:6 1588 1051:25 159 772:19,20 1045:7 15th 752:3 16 779:8,23 822:11 875:3 877:3 16.1 990:16 16.1. 1005:12 160 775:19,20 1045:12 1607 1051:11 161 779:3,4 1045:15 1615 767:23 768:5 769:15,17,19 162 780:13,14 1045:19 163 785:19,20 1046:3 1631 1055:19 164 788:15,16 1046:9 165 794:14,15 1046:12 165.000 969:3 166 798:2,3 1046:15 167 805:25 806:1 1046:20 168 810:5,6 1047:3 169 814:23,24 817:22,23 1047:8 17 746:12 754:4 988:23 1056:4 1057:6 17.2 1004:21 170 817:17,25 818:1 1047:12 1700 752:22 171 820:14,15 1047:15 172 827:15,16 1047:18 173 830:16,17 1047:21 174 833:11,12 1048:3 175 841:1,2 1048:9 175.000 773:22 17515 1045:10 176 853:3,4 1048:12 177 857:18,19 1048:15 178 867:21,22 1048:18 179 869:10,11 1048:22 18 875:3 877:3 903:9 905:1 908:3 180 878:6,7 1049:3 181 883:4,5 1049:7 182 886:10,11 1049:9 183 888:20,21 1049:12 184 896:23,24 1049:16 185 899:4,5 1049:21 18543 1047:7 186 901:18,19 1050:3 1866 1050:9 187 904:24,25 1050:7 1871 1050:13 188 907:15,16 1050:10 189 916:17,18 930:15 1050:14 18th 931:2 19 829:12 925:23 969:13 190 926:21,22 930:9 1050:17 191 930:10,11,21 1050:21 19109 753:3 192 933:19,20 1051:3 193 936:14,15 1051:7 194 939:6,7 1051:12 1940s 811:5 848:8 1949 848:1 195 943:12,13 1051:18 1950 852:9 1950s 847:15 1035:25 196 950:10,11 1051:22 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [1964 - 215] Page 3 1964 902:19 1968 846:10,12 1036:22 197 954:9,10 1052:3 1970 786:13 844:13,16,21 851:17 1035:8 1970s 876:10 1971 827:6 862:18 1033:8 1048:16 1972 859:24 886:15 889:8 901:21 908:2 1049:10,14 1973 770:1 775:21 776:7 843:25 897:8 905:2 907:18 912:24 914:7 926:23 930:25 933:1,21 933:24 1974 773:24 774:12 785:15 899:14 934:17 936:20 939:6 943:15 954:12 965:21 1018:5 1024:21 1029:19 1051:20,24 1052:13 1054:24 1055:8,11 1975 757:8 759:20 969:13 1036:7 1052:22 1976 779:8,23 784:3 785:22 786:8,17 791:3 794:4 798:23 856:16 925:17 1031:22 1055:18 1977 785:22 788:20 802:3 806:2 809:23 811:1,2 815:13 823:24 830:21 851:17 976:2 980:15 1008:16 1978 983:23 985:6 1979 769:7 1048:16 198 930:12,15 960:2,3 1052:8 1983 818:3 1984 1011:22 1012:24 1988 845:19 1989 846:4,9,17,20 199 962:23,24 964:23 1052:12 1990s 851:14,15 1991 910:4 1994 833:18 843:13 19th 967:16 1:19 886:8 la 838:20 839:1 lb 838:22 839:19 lh q 746:17 2 2 758:22 762:10 763:10 792:1 793:23 799:15 806-19 809 14 823:6 831:8,11 839-94 873-14 889:8 910:11,12 1000:19 1005:4,6 1007-91 1021-10 1030-8 J. v J U 0 2,000 897:22 2-5 762:10 763:11 2.8 990:2 1004:3 1005:10 20 769:7 785:22 821:8 925:23 965:21 985:6 20,000 968:20 200 752:13 967:7,8 1000:20 1052:15 200,000 835:21 20005 752:4 2000s 852:10 877:18 2009 853:8,12 201 969:11,12 1052:19 2010s 869:19 2012 820:17 821:19,23 822:10 823:23 824:4 2013 1017:25 2014 821:22 822:14 1018:20 2017 746:12 754:4 1056:4 1057:6 1058:22 202 973:7,8 1053:3 202.339.8458 752:4 203 975:18,19 1053:7 20359 1047:20 204 980:13,14 1053:10 20414 1047:23 2042 1050:25 20439 1054:11 20469 1046:11 205 983:19,20 1053:13 20521 1046:19 20544 1046:14 206 930:8 985:1,2 1053:17 207 992:25 993:1 1053:20 208 1006:19,20 1007:1 1054:3 209 1006:25 1008:14,15 1010:12 1054:8 20th 1026:12 21 797:23 21.7 990:5 1005:10 210 1011:19,20 1054:12 211 1012:22 1054:16 212 1014:4,5,16 1054:21 212.605.6200 751:5 212.912.3505 752:9 213 1018:1 1054:23 213.243.6112 753:8 213.283.2100 751:21 213.443.4365 752:23 213.486.8043 751:15 214 1018:21 1055:3 214.276.7680 750:5 215 1024:18,19 1055:6 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [215.772.7242 - 68] Page 4 215.772.7242 753:4 216 1026:3,4 1055:10 217 1028:20,21 1055:13 21796 1046:8 218 1031:8,9 1055:16 219 1043:16 1055:20 22 1008:16 23 1012:23 24 990:16 1005:12 1018:4 1044:18 1054:24 25 746:16 876:16 926:9 2500 753:7 26 930:25 933:1 943:15 990:5 1005:10 1026:7 1051:20 1055:11 2657980 746:25 2659 1044:11 26th 933:24 27 810:13 28 950:23 1049:14 1051:24 2800 751:20 29 806:2 967:12 294 966:2 297 1056:3 2:09 937:11 2:11 937:12 2:16 942:13 2:24 942:14 3 3 746:11762:10 763:10 768:22 772:21 791:4,19 791:22 793:11 883:23 884:8,12 885:24 886:15 976:2 980:15 985:16 1001:14 1049:10 1058:4,20 3.3 989:25 1005:9 3.30.73 867:3 3.5 790:14 3.9. 1005:5 30 775:11,12,16 776:7 954:12 30,000 968:18 969:8 300 751:20 31 788:20 960:4 3200 751:14 3232 750:4 325 841:20 842:15 3400 750:14 349 1014:14 3579 1047:11 359 993:10 3699 1047:14 37th 954:19 39211 752:13 3:14 996:6 3:27 996:7 3:59 1028:13 4 4 822:25 823:16 831:11 832:20,24 868:8 902:12 908:4,21 981:5 990:10 1003:4,4 1004:2,21 1005:11 1031:22 4.24.74 865:8 4.5 874:25 876:24 4.5.77 1007:3 40 750:19 885:8 40,000 968:8 400 1003:5 405 750:9 40s 844:24 847:17 848:1,14,15 849:8 1035:8 412.281.5000 751:10 439 837:13 1048:7 455 751:14 46 902:13 908:4 991:21 992:5 480 750:19 49 1034:16 4959 1049:11 4:03 1028:14 4:15 1040:18 4:24 1040:19 4:28 1043:20 5 5 759:20 789:24 790:18 791:4,13 791:19,22 795:3 801:17 822:17 831:8 832:17 836:23 919:25 926:8 927:8 983:23 989:25 1001:13 1005:9 1006:4,11,11 1007:25 1008:6 1052:21 5.14.71 862:20,23 50 775:12,13,16 500 750:9 5084 1050:16 5087 918:23 5095 919:23 5098 920:20 5099 920:20 50s 844:24 847:17 847:17 848:17 849:9 861:8,24 913:22 52,000 968:15 53191 1053:6 53222 1045:19 535 751:9 5496 1047:17 5973-16 749:5 6 6 830-21 874-7 965:23 990:3 1004:2 1005:9 1052:13 1054:15 fi 1 1004-22 6.5 870:11 872:10 873-1Q 6.5.91 838:9 600 750:14 753:12 6008 1049:15 601 753:7 601.863.2100 752:14 60s 845:12 846:24 847:1,4 848:6,17 849:9 861:8,25 862:17 1035:25 610 750:4 6193 1049:23 633 752:22 650 842:2,24 66 810:8,17 811:14 811:23 812:2,3 818:9 867:25 868:18 1007:11 1047:6,10 1048:19 1054:5 68 812:5 1034:24 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [7 - 94] Page 5 7 7 790:25 791:4,19 791:22 792:8 838:18 910:20 954:18 990:13 1048:15 7.1.75 866:2 7.21. 863:7 7.23. 863:9 7.23.73. 900:24 7.29.71 863:3,4,11 7.8.74 865:13 7.8.74. 865:16 7.9 990:13 70 786:13 852:4 1034:21,22 7019 1007:6 7024 818:14 820:2 823:17 824:1,24 834:13 838:22 839:24 7031 1050:6 70s 784:8 827:14 843:18 845:12 847:1 851:2,7 856:6 865:7 875:7 1036:7 71 768:22 858:3 859:24 862:7,10 864:5 922:5 926:7 713.227.8008 750:15 718-983-1234 1058:2 72 786:12 902:4 904:15 922:5 7249-16 748:6 7290 1052:14 73 771:17 772:3,18 786:12 857:13 930:18 732.545.4717 750:20 74 756:7 772:21 774:19,22 784:13 843:25 936:16 940:4 950:23 965:23 1026:7 75 780:16 784:15 784:16 943:22 947:2,9,10,17 960:5 967:13 968:12 75204 750:5 754 1044:3,4 755 1044:11 76 780:22 784:11 1031:25 1033:20 767 1044:14 769 1044:18 1045:6 77 797:23 803:13 810:13 811:21 831:15 852:4 1011:12 77002 750:10 77002-2926 750:15 772 1045:10 775 1045:14 779 1045:18 780 1045:19 785 1046:8 788 1046:11 79 756:8 757:11,12 762:20,23 763:4 858:4 993:3 794 1046:14 798 1046:19 8 8 897:7 907:18 910:18,19 912:24 927:4 988:23 1004:21 1038:2 1040:3 8.17 1029:13 8.26.77. 830:13 8/17/2017 1058:3 80 759:21,22 765:22 800 751:4 806 1046:23 80s 843:5 847:4 81 1055:9 810 1047:7 814 1047:11 818 1047:14 820 1047:17 827 1047:20 830 1047:23 833 1048:7 841 1048:11 853 1048:14 857 1048:17 867 1048:21 869 1048:25 8745 1045:6 878 1049:6 88 845:19 883 1049:8 886 1049:11 888 1049:15 8888 1049:20 89 845:19,20,25 846:1,13 852:18 896 1049:20 8964 1045:18 899 1049:23 9 9 762:9 806:2 831:5 897:23 936:20 9.23.97. 868:6 9.3 875:1 876:25 9.3.71 863:16 90017-5704 753:8 90071 751:20 752:22 90071-1651 751:15 901 1050:6 905 1050:9 9050 1053:19 9057 1053:16 907 1050:13 9089 987:22,25 90s 833:13 841:7 843:6 845:21 877:16 879:5 9126 1053:9 9127 1053:12 916 1050:16 9160 1052:23 926 1050:20 9265 1052:11 930 1050:25 9314 1055:12 9320 1055:15 933 1051:6 9347 1054:22 9349 1014:15 936 1051:11 9367 1015:15 9368 1015:15 9378 1051:21 9380 1051:17 939 1051:17 94 834:1 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [943 - agencies] Page 6 943 1051:21 9499 1054:25 95 1002:7,10,25 1003:8 1005:18,19 950 1051:25 954 1052:7 960 1052:11 962 1052:14 967 1052:18 969 1052:23 97 868:1 972.537.4205 750:10 973 1053:6 973.549.7338 753:13 975 1053:9 98 869:23 980 1053:12 983 1053:16 985 1053:19 99 1002:13,15 993 1053:23 ________ a________ abilities 804:21 ability 803:22,24 807:22 821:1 able 776:3 791:18 842:16 844:5 847:10 863:25 886:22 887:22 888:2,4 900:6 920:14 943:19 946:24 absence 810:17,20 811:15,17 814:4,8 845:1 959:5 1025:16 1047:5 absolute 773:4 absolutely 772:5,6 862:13 879:18 absorption 871:20 abstract 902:6 academics 880:13 accept 853:20 acceptance 868:7 970:8 accepted 782:23 970:13 accessible 823:8 accessories 773:22 accompany 952:15 accomplishing 906:21 accounting 910:23 911:3,6 912:16 915:13 accounts 941:3 accredited 1057:3 accruing 967:19 accuracy 960:11 961:8 accurate 799:17 804:4 1022:22 1056:6 1057:9 acetaminophen 828:14 achieve 952:19 achieved 799:24 804:17 acicular 811:6,8 811:11 845:1 847:6 acid 927:24 acknowledge 882:1 acknowledgments 974:21 acquainted 938:7 act 937:25 1023:12 acted 909:3 acting 795:24 938:8 actinolite 863:12 866:13 902:11 903:10 919:14,18 action 797:12 807:6 822:22 active 895:22 959:15 960:12,13 activities 969:18 1012:24 1054:18 acts 937:23 actual 757:9 762:5 763:24 810:24 813:14,16,18 814:13 822:22 824:22 845:3 854:8 953:15 975:7 986:16 998:1 1004:20 add 811:15,18 812:19 974:16 979:7 added 805:17 812:9 848:12 966:21 987:10 addendum 813:12 814:7 adding 813:25 814:7 1048:22 addition 778:9 787:9 897:23 959:3 983:11 additional 804:20 816:5 851:25 959:17 981:13 1026:21 additive 927:17,23 address 1023:15 addressed 895:17 983:24 984:3 addressing 810:21 adequately 952:23 adjourned 1043:20 adjust 955:20,23 956:7,11 administration 807:15 admit 906:22 admitted 907:11 910:21 914:16 adopted 769:12 782:21 783:12 788:11 803:14,19 809:10 833:4 843:17 adopts 785:21 adult 874:25 876:24 adverse 898:8 1013:24 advertising 1010:1 1010:22 advisable 959:3 advise 905:16 906:10 advised 939:12 970:16 971:10 advisor 909:3 advisory 785:24 974:2 1046:5 advocate 770:20 advocating 829:23 832:2,6,14,17 856:11 advocation 833:7 affairs 827:18 agencies 774:5 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [agency - anybody] Page 7 agency 773:13 828:25 910:24 911:3 912:17 915:14 agent 885:3 949:23 1019:14,24 aggressive 915:19 agit 767:23 768:6 769:15,17,19 ago 869:5 921:23 940:1 942:17 1019:23 agree 757:3,6 759:9 761:3 773:15 799:4 819:5 912:6,9,11 914:9 918:13 953:7 1039:22 1041:8,12,25 1042:5,7 agreeable 1041:22 1043:7 agreed 757:18 786:5,21 896:2 909:20 966:24 1023:23 1027:5,21 1042:3,12,13,24 agreeing 1041:19 agreement 773:3 968:23 1023:25 1041:3,5 1042:23 aha 858:14 1003:10 ahead 756:3 759:23 761:17 762:1 774:9 789:14 794:2 809:13 814:16 816:11 820:17 854:21 877:6 886:19 896:6 917:3 918:22 920:8 938:6 1016:5 1029:9 aim 923:10,11 924:5,5 aims 934:16 air 975:10,15 airborne 873:13 1012:24 1054:17 al 746:7 747:10 748:10 749:9 1012:4 1044:15 1054:14 alan 779:7 alexander 752:21 alice 910:4 allegation 879:20 880:4 alleges 1012:8 allegra 752:3 alien 889:23 891:15,18 921:6 allow 776:22 778:21 831:5,11 1027:6 allowance 832:6 832:14 884:2 allows 883:23 alphabetical 792:2 alps 1016:9 1017:15 alternate 779:10 779:17,24 alternative 1045:17 amadea 751:19 amalik 752:5 amax 751:11 753:10 ambiguity 855:11 amended 838:9 amendment 1026:17 1027:12 america 747:7 748:7 749:6 751:12,17 753:9 867:25 1048:9,19 american 752:18 860:16 974:23 americans 1030:7 ammens 787:16 amount 783:13 885:4 902:9,12 914:15,17 975:6 975:11 1001:19 amounts 957:25 amphibole 762:7 765:23,25 766:2,4 766:20 780:10,10 781:15 782:8,22 782:25 786:22 787:10 788:5 789:23 790:9 793:20,24 794:6 795:2 798:25 919:12 1037:10 1046:18 amphiboles 762:9 762:11 763:11,13 766:6,6,11 919:7 amphibolitic 1015:23 analyses 831:2 analysis 770:14 783:15 785:4,7 794:8,11 816:3,6 845:1 850:6 852:12 864:25 903:7 925:25 1004:1 1005:24 1007:19 1054:6 analyst 765:24 823:9 analysts 797:13,16 analytical 786:25 787:25 795:23 855:20 1032:16 analytically 814:12 angeles 746:1 751:15,20 752:22 753:8 animal 773:11 880:8 885:21 anne 752:2 anoonan 752:5 answer 754:24 764:20,22 775:10 813:15 817:15 822:9 828:24 833:6 835:7 843:12 844:22 849:12 852:23,23 862:3,24 866:16 867:17 884:5 896:11 933:14 941:24 943:7 946:11 1034:9 1035:5 answer's 772:4 anthophyllite 790:14 831:11 832:20,25 833:5 866:13 890:5 902:11 903:12 921:21 anticipate 890:6 anxious 890:11 899:16 910:22 anybody 796:3 961:10,15 977:23 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [anyway - ashton] Page 8 anyway 829:8 871:2 904:15 apparatus 895:23 apparent 959:21 1025:13 apparently 774:8 787:13 856:22 900:16,17 911:19 937:18 970:22 988:24 1009:4,11 1020:8 appear 755:23,25 758:3 769:16 782:24 793:7,10 812:12 994:2 appeared 844:7 1012: 101021:20 appearing 750:2,8 750:12,17 appears 765:24 773:18 814:1 893:15 895:10 899:2,13 917:20 987:17 applicable 979:14 979:22 application 784:25 879:22 applied 895:24 applies 857:7 appraised 984:10 appreciate 847:21 850:4 885:15 924:9 983:12 appreciated 953:2 appreciation 842:15 apprehensive 970:19 approach 886:24 888:6 893:6 895:7 983:11,12 approached 940:22 appropriate 905:16 906:10 958:24 980:5 approval 779:22 855:5,9 857:9 approved 779:6 779:16 868:17 1011:9 approximate 762:6 773:21 approximately 818:25 852:9 943:22 947:2 1007:22 april 797:23 815:13 970:12 1049:14 arden 751:16 area 783:1 784:23 923:17 1014:2 areas 773:10 826:9 882:6,12,21 991:1,9 argonaut 779:1,10 779:12,16,23 865:6,7,9 868:18 1045:17 argue 860:7 1031:16 argued 1021:18 arranged 969:22 1025:10 arrangements 941:2 952:6 arsenic 813:20 883:21,24 884:2 884:13,20 885:12 a rt 1033:21 article 901:20 903:5 905:6,10 956:21 957:16 1013:9,14,20 1050:5 articles 866:19 986:6 arzapalo 1047:12 asbestiform 780:10 781:15 782:7 786:22 787:10 788:5 789:11 795:2 798:25 801:17,20 879:10 903:24 906:2 908:4 910:16 912:21,25 913:6 914:17 986:13 987:2 988:8 991:14 1046:18 asbestos 757:16,17 757:21 758:13,18 759:1,4 760:20 761:19,21 762:13 762:15 763:16,20 764:12 765:5,9,14 765:15,23 766:11 766:16,17,21 767:11,12 770:1 770:25 773:5 776:14 777:4,8,15 778:14 801:20 805:16 807:5 810:17,20 811:1,6 811:9,10,15,18 812:9,21 813:23 813:24 814:5,8 815:10 816:7 818:7,25 821:4 823:18,19 824:7 824:25 827:3 829:16 831:19 833:8 834:10 838:20 844:15 845:2 854:10,18 856:18 865:14,22 866:2,2,14,23,24 867:6,7,9,14,15,15 870:16,18 871:11 871:12 872:6,21 873:2,3,16,17 876:10 878:20 881:8,12,17,20,25 882:5,7,9,15 883:19 902:19 910:6 913:23,25 922:1 925:18 926:1 927:13 929:15 968:3 981:12 1009:3,5 1009:14 1010:2,16 1010:24 1011:2 1012:4,9 1015:24 1018:11 1019:12 1019:16 1025:17 1038:19 1040:13 1045:4,13 1047:5 1047:9 1050:3,8 1054:13 1058:3 asbestosform 902:3,10 905:7 907:25 914:2 ashton 769:6 849:23 852:9 897:7 905:1 906:5 906:8 907:21 927:1 939:9 950:18 954:12 969:13,15,19 971:9,16 973:22 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [ashton - baby] Page 9 983:4,25 984:1 1011:22 1012:18 1012:23 1013:13 1013:18 1018:4,16 1018:23 1021:7 1024:20 1026:5 1030:2 1032:5 1036:3 1044:15 1049:16 1050:7,11 1050:17 1051:12 1051:23 1052:3,19 1054:12,16,23 1055:4,6,10,17 ashton's 901:24 aside 767:15 768:23 769:22 772:17 778:25 785:18 794:3 803:12 810:4 817:14 820:4 827:13 830:10 833:10 843:1 867:20 869:9 877:7 878:19 888:19 901:17 904:19 924:22 930:7 933:16 936:13 938:20 941:18 950:2 960:1 967:6 969:10 973:5 975:5,17 980:12 984:25 992:20 1000:7,12 1006:17 1008:8 1012:20 1014:1 1018:15 1026:2 1027:19 1031:5 asked 763:19 764:18 819:19,21 855:1 856:17 888:25 932:2,9 935:16 941:19,21 955:18 957:17 978:20 1008:9 1031:24 1036:15 1037:25 1038:5 asking 798:20 844:4 849:10 854:16 881:18,19 894:5,24 935:19 940:14 961:22,23 963:18 982:13 1006:9 1035:7 asks 1012:13 aspect 900:8 aspects 859:11 892:11,19 895:5 905:5,12 957:15 972:24 1013:8 aspirin 828:14,19 assay 1019:18 assembled 1025:8 assignment 1058:2 assignments 906:5 assistance 959:17 978:19,20 assistants 940:7 associate 807:2 associated 993:18 association 892:5 892:14 895:2 associations 880:12 897:23 assume 815:22,22 836:11 873:18 874:14 964:5 assumes 824:11 assumption 815:23 818:10 assurance 799:17 assure 1023:22 asterisk 1001:23 asterisks 1003:12 astm 1013:4,18 1054:18 at& t 746:6,6 atomic 889:22 attached 897:17 960:6 983:24 1010:14 1012:6 1018:8 1025:8 1026:21 attaching 900:14 attachment 1010:11 attachments 772:23 1045:10 attack 1023:12 attaining 1004:12 attempt 802:7 900:2 1009:10 attend 797:9 attended 853:10 853:16 attending 751:2 attention 1009:1 attitude 809:17 audit 820:20 821:15,19,22 822:4,12,17 826:22 1047:15 audited 821:20 auditing 843:22 august 746:12 754:4 806:2 950:23 1051:24 1056:4 1057:6 authenticity 1041:9 author 763:7 804:16 891:14 916:10,10 941:12 950:7 973:17 980:18 982:22 authored 815:21 819:7 888:22 906:15 925:18 authoring 981:23 authorities 1025:24 authority 778:1 authorized 929:18 authors 907:8 908:22,23 909:24 973:14,23,24 974:23 987:8 1032:17 1033:22 available 784:21 848:25 851:9 942:9 971:12 avenue 750:4 751:4,20 avoid 878:14 957:1 avon 787:16 790:5 791:8,12 808:13 awarded 940:24 aware 777:14,18 778:10 796:8,9 801:19,22 805:8 805:10,12 815:16 852:2 878:22 904:22 928:12 941:25 1018:16 1020:11______ ________b b 834:11 917:10 1044:7 baby 763:21 769:8 779:9,14,17 787:17,18,19 792:16 810:7,10 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [baby - body] 811:25 818:14 833:21 834:4 863:11 874:3 875:3 876:11 877:3 886:25 888:7,9,14 889:14 896:8 902:25 910:12,13 927:5 965:5 1038:2 1040:4,14 1044:17 1045:16 1048:6 back 763:18 774:12 775:21 779:18 784:1,12 791:25 797:22 807:1 808:5,20 811:4 827:14 838:2 844:9,23 845:8 846:24 847:14,17 856:6 859:19 889:4 899:6 905:25 919:24 920:14 927:21 928:3 937:9 996:23 1020:25 1021:6 1031:10 1035:24 1038:17 backed 897:22 background 767:19 884:9 921:12 940:25 997:10 1001:3 1018:25 backup 1021:2 backyard 954:24 955:1 bacon 746:16 750:13 bad 780:20 966:16 balance 826:2 958:19 ballpark 1040:2 banned 1032:20 1032:22 bartlett 750:3 base 858:11 based 758:6 759:7 759:10,11 761:2 773:25 774:8,11 784:21 799:6 805:14 880:8 911:2 921:15 947:16 952:22 964:5 975:15 1000:1 basic 982:4 basically 874:17 900:10 910:25 912:2 925:22 938:16 basis 769:11 773:20 779:15 849:25 852:14 914:24 922:17 976:3 1032:16 basketball 829:5 batch 845:9,10,12 847:18,20 849:25 849:25 852:14,15 1011:10 1034:18 1036:1,11 batches 843:22,23 844:2 1011:15 1035:6 bates 837:13 857:21 868:8 918:23 987:21 1041:10,14 1048:14 1053:23 1055:21 battelle 810:22 861:7,24 968:10 bc646315 746:5 beach 752:7 bearing 972:7 beat 915:8 beauty 787:16 beg 1001:16 began 819:7 843:10 begins 862:7,10 870:2 behalf 808:12 behest 909:24 belief 1035:9 1037:16 believe 756:17 790:1 808:12 851:15 877:15 879:16 900:3 911:21 951:15 952:14,20,24 1022:1 1033:12 believed 893:17 1028:6 1034:15 bell 746:6 benefit 945:20 970:17 984:23 1023:22 1024:10 benefiting 967:21 benefits 967:19 best 942:9 976:14 1019:15 bet 904:21 beta 828:15 better 841:13 872:17 877:25 952:21 1019:19 beyond 883:2 biased 976:12 Page 10 bibra 892:6,9 893:6 biddle 753:11 big 777:23 801:4 821:13 836:21,25 837:1 877:9 878:18 987:5 bill 849:23,23 852:8 905:1 906:5 907:21 950:18,22 950:24 973:22 983:3,5 984:1 1011:22 1018:4 1026:6,11 billions 1031:1 bin 834:25 biological 892:4 892:14 895:1 1004:4,11,12 1005:25 bit 767:22 768:24 838:13 885:6 903:16 911:18 919:14 945:18 953:22 982:7 996:8 blend 836:14 blind 793:3 blocked 755:13 blockers 828:15 blocky 766:6 blount 910:4 board 754:8,14 756:4 914:6 bob 899:10 1009:1 1019:25 1020:1 1026:5 1027:1 bodies 917:8,13 920:22 body 787:18 873:12 874:20 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Ine. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [body - carcinogen] Page 11 885:17 887:16 1010:16 bologna 1023:6 booklet 1019:7,9 1019:18 1020:7,10 1024:1,3 1026:15 1026:18,23 1027:6 1030:5 books 934:16 boric 927:24 bottle 763:20 765:5 1038:2,2 1040:3 bottles 1021:19 bottom 809:13 837:14 868:8 908:9 918:22 919:4,22 923:13 929:14 966:2 982:22 1014:14 1020:18 bought 772:14 774:16 846:17 boundy 986:6 bouquet 787:18 bowling 905:6,16 906:10,22 907:3 907:11 908:15,18 909:15 911:7 914:14 916:2 924:25 1033:10 1050:12 box 750:19 bpc 818:14 brainchild 1019:4 brands 806:21 break 814:16 886:4 903:23 942:11 996:5 1028:10 brenntag 747:7 748:7 749:6 753:5 brief 806:7 briefly 958:2 1012:21 1024:17 bring 898:4 1021:1 bristol 751:17 britain 935:9 british 890:15 892:4,13 895:1 930:17 974:23 1019:23 broad 746:16 753:3 broader 903:16 broadly 955:6 brochure 1009:2 broker 929:4,10 bronchus 988:22 988:25 brought 754:12 912:13 1025:21,24 brown 752:12 brunswick 750:19 849:16 889:4 building 751:9 builds 885:16 bullet 855:4 871:10 873:11 bunch 910:6 bundle 762:11 763:11 bundles 762:10 763:10 765:9,14 bundy 751:14 bureau 770:1,11 1045:4 burrowing 958:3 business 845:14 971:7 1013:8,24 1019:11 1023:11 1041:11,12,18,20 buy 763:21 764:13 765:6,10,16 772:10 843:20 c c 750:1,4 751:1 752:1,2 753:1 827:17 877:20 917:13 920:21 964:25 ca 751:15 cabinet 965:9 calculated 874:19 876:10 calculation 874:17 calculator 1038:12 1039:20 calculous 876:19 calfo 752:21 California 746:1 751:20 752:22 753:8 1042:3 1058:21 call 784:5 828:7 849:23 997:18 called 769:15 785:23 820:21 828:17 849:16 854:1 879:21 890:23 897:8 904:7 921:2 927:23 928:2 958:13 962:6 970:23 1004:3 1007:18 1009:1 calls 905:12 campus 753:12 cancer 878:21 879:4 880:3,23,23 880:25 881:6 885:2,8,19 902:20 944:12,24 946:15 947:12 948:18 949:12,21,24 964:2 988:19,25 989:22 990:9,20 990:20,21,22 991:1,9,15,18 992:17,17 993:16 993:20 994:2,5,14 994:16,20,25 995:2,11,21,22,22 995:22 997:5 999:1,5,21 1000:2 1000:9 1001:9,20 1002:23 1003:4,14 1003:17,20,21 1004:19 1005:4,9 1005:13,14 1006:13 cancers 885:1 989:19 995:16 996:1 997:9,16,21 998:3,18 1001:8 1004:24 1005:9,10 1006:4,11 caneer 907:19 908:11 914:7 916:8 1050:10 cans 896:8 capability 874:5 capable 783:3 872:9 capitalize 1019:17 carbon 893:7,14 893:17,21 894:2,6 894:12,15,16,25 carcinogen 878:15 878:20 879:11,17 884:20,21,23 885:25 902:19 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [carcinogen - charges] Page 12 981:16 1049:5 carcinogenic 884:25 897:19 986:7 carcinogenicity 893:19 986:13 987:1 988:8 991:13 carcinoma 921:14 Cardiff 958:23 968:23 care 787:17 carefully 776:13 878:14 956:5,22 957:10 carlo 1053:11,18 carpenter 753:7 carried 917:6 955:5 1034:20,21 carrier 816:18 carry 773:13 887:3 1023:10 1024:8 1025:11 carrying 892:9 Cartwright 895:24 896:3 1019:24 1026:22 1029:14 casal 877:14 casalvieri 877:15 878:3 1049:3 case 746:5 751:17 751:22 752:10,24 753:5 764:23 766:22 770:13 779:18 780:1 792:23 793:10,13 812:12 814:1 829:15 837:2 843:8 851:5 885:10 897:8,22 914:24 915:1 979:16 992:4 996:11,14,17,20 998:8 1002:1 1004:10 1009:11 1028:17 1040:24 1049:17 1058:3 cases 751:12 786:13 878:25 1042:3,13,14,15 1042:18 cashmere 787:17 categories 991:17 993:14 994:19,23 995:2 997:5,7,21 998:18 999:11 1000:2 1006:11,12 category 903:16 988:15 993:20 995:7 cause 822:22 879:3 881:20 882:1,12,16,24 934:17 943:23 944:10,23 946:6,8 946:10 947:3 949:1,10 1051:9 1057:14,16 caused 881:8 975:10 causes 881:23,25 882:5 993:14,16 993:22 994:7,9,11 995:6,7,14,25 998:6,8,16 1003:22 causing 880:3 caution 1021:13 cc 875:1,4 876:25 877:1,3 983:4 cc'd 776:8 cc'ing 779:7 cent 756:10 789:24 790:8,14 790:18 791:13 800:14,18 831:6,8 831:11 832:15,17 832:20,23,24,24 863:19,25 864:3 869:4 902:12,13 903:24 910:16,19 926:9 947:9,10,17 991:21 992:5 1002:7,10,13,15 1002:25 1003:8 1005:18,19 1008:6 1030:8 1038:17,22 1038:25 1039:9,10 center 889:23 890:19 891:16,19 centimeter 877:1 central 795:23 certain 820:12 856:12 869:4 870:11 872:9 881:13,14 882:8 923:17 962:10 974:14 978:21 1035:2 certainly 766:13 772:10 774:4 783:20 784:9 792:14 793:1 795:19 796:25 803:23 804:14 808:3 816:23 821:9 830:5 833:7 835:11 836:23 842:17 843:12,21 847:14 849:18 851:13,24 853:13 856:5 858:22 872:21 877:18 884:11 885:12 890:9 894:1 902:21 920:13 941:15 945:5 957:11 974:23 1004:141011:11 1016:19 certificate 1056:1 1057:1 certified 1042:10 certify 1056:3 1057:4,12 cervix 921:15 cetera 1012:14 chairman 788:22 795:21 830:24 832:1 chairperson 830:25 challenge 911:13 challenging 911:7 chamber 826:3 chance 861:19 change 769:17 810:8,16 1047:3 1058:5 changed 893:6 894:12 changes 1056:5 changing 811:13 895:6 characterise 890:8 characteristics 834:6 838:14,19 characterize 895:9 charge 830:24 charges 909:19,25 911:2 912:13 915:11 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [charles - come] Page 13 Charles 747:3 1051:22 chart 861:4 1043:10,12,15 1055:20 chas 939:12 941:4 970:3 971:4 984:20 1020:22 1035:19 1055:7 chase 750:14 chastise 1010:1 1011:1 chastising 1009:20 check 974:5 978:10 checked 893:16 895:12 checking 911:23 checks 849:24 cheesebrough 790:5 chem 826:15 chemist 853:7 chesone 953:1 972:8 Chicago 849:17 child 765:11 966:20 chisone 897:4,10 955:7,11 969:17 1014:10 1016:8 1017:14 1019:2,5 1024:24,24,25 1025:9 1026:19,23 1027:3,4 1029:6 1049:19 1051:15 chlorite 890:4 choice 871:19 chose 841:6 chosen 893:17 chris 750:3 768:12 830:12 861:20 862:15 900:9 chronologically 899:7 chrysotile 756:10 776:3 781:20,21 781:22 782:2 863:19,25 865:8 865:14 870:10 871:2 872:9 874:10 903:18,18 922:6 927:18,20 959:5,7 964:16 974:17 979:8 1007:8,15 1008:5 1009:14 1010:6 1011:16 1016:23 1017:1 1018:10,12 1022:8 1025:17,25 1027:17 1038:17 1039:17,18 chrysotiles 1015:22 1016:16 chunk 987:5 chunks 766:6 chunky 766:25 churg 902:18 cigarette 885:6,7 1006:1 circle 948:2 circulate 948:5 962:21 circumstances 779:19 1042:19 cite 785:12 cites 959:4 citrate 927:19,25 claimed 874:11 910:7 921:20 926:2 claims 921:16 clairol 787:19 clarification 794:13 847:9 868:5 877:19 924:1 957:11 1037:5 clarifies 1030:12 clarify 765:21 957:5 clarifying 957:8 d a rk 747:10 748:10 749:9 750:17 889:23 891:15,18 921:6 class 1026:16 classified 1015:20 1017:9 clean 826:17 927:5 cleaned 826:16,18 cleanliness 826:1 clear 754:22 756:4 774:1 782:16 801:9 807:20 819:18 832:10 847:3 893:12 909:17 939:16,24 957:19 963:1 970:20 977:21 1041:18 clearer 847:3 clearing 958:14 clearly 811:21 923:15 client 820:6 Clifton 830:23 close 877:25 closed 849:14 closer 773:18 closest 857:12 clouds 787:18 959:22 club 914:25 cluttered 826:9 coauthor 957:12 code 795:7,9,13,15 796:13,18,25 coded 761:3 codes 797:4 1044:10 cohort 971:12 coincident 929:5 cold 1021:12 Colgate 790:6 791:9,13 colleagues 807:17 color 883:13 Colorado 827:6 862:19905:15,21 905:24 906:6,9,16 906:21 907:2,6,19 908:12,17 909:23 911:12912:1 914:7,19 915:24 916:8 924:23,24 929:18 932:15 1023:7 1031:10,17 1032:5 1033:8 1034:7 1050:10 1055:16 colors 853:7 column 758:21 760:8,11 761:18 767:8 columns 760:9 combined 995:4 995:24 come 762:9 776:15 828:10 844:9 911:13 928:3 945:13 951:15 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [come - confirmation] Page 14 979:17 1006:3 comes 820:5 1022:2,3,14 1039:9 coming 905:25 927:10 928:5 939:16 954:22 1023:2 1034:25 commenced 895:22 commendation 1020:5 comment 773:15 796:22 929:8,12 955:20 956:6 978:18 commented 885:12 commenting 1032:13 comments 770:2 826:24 956:20 1032:9 1045:5 commercial 794:24 798:24 902:4,7,24 903:2,4 905:7 908:1,3 923:25 934:4 1050:3 commercialized 924:2 commission 1058:25 committee 785:24 1023:4,8,9,13,15 1023:22 1046:5 committees 788:3 common 773:9 814:9,10 commonly 827:25 commonwealth 890:15 communicated 862:2 866:3,15 communication 946:20 958:21 959:1 communications 856:5 857:24 858:9 861:5 community 952:18 companies 773:11 787:3 791:12,15 793:6 795:12 805:23 821:10 828:10 856:14 company 746:7 751:11,17 752:16 752:18 753:10 795:9 796:7 810:8 811:5 815:16 818:14 820:21,25 821:13 843:9,17 847:10 849:10 859:15 869:15 883:12 889:11 923:21 934:15 937:24 952:22 965:5 971:10 979:21 1036:25 1037:6 1055:7 company's 856:18 comparison 794:22 compass 901:21 904:7,8 908:2 1050:4 compendia 870:20 871:13,17,19 872:2,23 873:4,17 compiled 787:24 complaining 977:6 977:10 complete 841:23 1042:6 completed 800:2 839:5 840:13 890:9 completely 944:18 completion 822:22 934:19 composite 834:10 834:16,17,24 835:4 836:10,12 836:13,14,17 839:4,7,23 840:12 840:14 841:23 842:6 843:4 composition 854:8 compounding 1004:15 comprehensive 859:10 897:21 compromise 1013:10,19 1023:5 compromising 1013:23 conceived 1020:9 concentrating 919:15 concentration 762:6 775:24 777:16 919:7 930:4 concern 771:5 894:8 concerned 966:23 970:18 1009:22 1012:18 1024:10 1027:16 concerning 785:24 899:12 1046:5 conclude 807:7 conclusion 804:1 946:10947:18,23 948:17,21,22 981:19,24 982:1,9 982:13,23 999:19 1006:3 conclusions 951:10 986:8,10 992:11 999:18 1032:17 conditions 881:14 981:17 conduct 934:2 938:1 941:11 942:8 conducted 936:24 951:2 conducting 910:22 confer 1041:16 1042:18,21 conference 963:24 confetti 967:10 confidence 961:9 961:13,17 962:20 1002:7,10,15,25 1003:8 1005:18 confident 972:3 confidential 776:22 778:2,21 859:13 916:20 986:1 1018:5,22 1050:14 1054:23 1055:3 confidentiality 1025:12 confirmation 1026:22 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [confirmed - correct] Page 15 confirmed 757:16 757:17,21 758:12 759:1 763:20 764:12 765:14 866:2 923:5 conflicts 974:21 confounding 992:2 1006:1 confused 831:17 927:20 confusing 766:12 766:13 confusion 766:10 congress 857:5 954:20 connection 951:18 952:5 1041:7 1042:2 conopco 751:22 consider 773:23 776:13 considered 783:2 890:25 1014:25 1016:10 1017:10 1017:16 1049:4 consistency 788:2 803:8 consistent 914:10 916:3 consultant 852:10 920:14 937:23,25 968:23 1034:8 consultants 880:15 consulting 787:1 consumer 770:20 785:25 789:11 795:22 798:8 809:17 839:10 840:2 869:14 871:8,11 873:2,10 873:13,16 874:19 875:15 912:21 925:18 926:9 966:17 1032:1 1046:6,17 consumerist 966:15 consumerists 966:14,23 consumers 809:24 966:22 981:17 contact 917:9 contacted 907:6 contain 794:6 798:24 903:10,12 903:14 922:20 1012:8 contained 810:25 829:16 908:4 container 1031:2 1039:16 containers 903:2 containing 975:11 contains 765:9,14 884:12 957:25 1018:9,12 contaminants 798:25 contaminated 827:11 906:1 content 813:19 956:24 1015:24 1017:11 contention 951:5 contents 959:22 1016:11 1017:17 1030:4 context 834:1 958:17 981:7 contingency 1042:16 continually 957:22 continue 893:11 939:14 continued 751:1 752:1 753:1 754:3 805:21 1044:4 contract 820:20 891:20 1047:15 contractor 783:23 822:5 contractors 821:15 contribution 963:3 contributions 900:5 control 771:10 784:25 785:6 821:14 823:2 889:13 918:2 931:7,18,25 932:21,23 933:3,7 933:11,13 941:23 942:4,7 944:13 945:1 946:16 947:14 948:20 949:14,22 952:23 963:7,8,11 992:1 controls 898:12,14 937:6,18 938:12 950:15 controversy 1019:13 convention 827:24 conversation 858:19 860:18 867:7 conversations 775:23 859:13,24 909:16 964:6 convinced 857:14 cooled 929:16 coordinate 933:8 942:8 951:19,24 952:17 991:25 coordinated 918:11,14 coordinates 939:3 coordination 918:5 968:5 copies 1024:5 copy 795:15 815:2 824:16 825:8,12 825:14,16,17 852:7 983:24 987:13,18 1002:3 1006:22 1012:6 1018:8 1042:2,6,6 1042:8,10 corn 809:16,17,25 corner 781:1 corp 746:6 corporate 1042:14 corporation 752:17 correct 755:10,11 757:13,25 758:1,2 758:3,5,9,18,19 759:10 761:4,5,9 762:25 764:2,7,8 764:22 766:21 767:4,5,13,24 768:7,17 771:19 774:2,3 776:4,19 777:5 778:3,23 780:12 781:10,11 781:23 782:2,4 783:6,9,10,22 786:15 788:24 790:20 793:24 794:7,10 795:18 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [ctfa - delay] Page 17 812:21 828:9 830:18 831:23 833:3 834:10 838:20 839:1 841:22 856:17,20 857:14 859:12,20 871:23 883:6,8,11 883:23 920:5 1008:21 1009:25 1010:25 1046:3,4 1046:9,15 1047:21 1049:7 1054:8 ctfa's 807:6 cubic 877:1 current 784:21 786:9,17 788:4 791:3,10 793:8 794:4 807:20 823:17 829:17 838:7 882:2 889:19 917:5 940:24 967:18 currently 895:22 919:6 cut 970:20 cutting 958:10 cyanamid 752:18 Cyprus 751:11 753:9 769:12,16 790:6 791:9,13 846:13,17 852:18 852:22 1012:1 ________d_______ d 970:3 1044:1 da 1029:13 dallas 750:5 dally 928:19 damaging 1018:8 dan 902:5 1040:21 dangerous 976:10 daniel 751:3 1041:1 daniels 747:10 748:10 749:9 750:17 darlene 747:4 data 756:19 759:7 759:10,11 761:15 789:9 794:23 807:7 809:8 839:24 847:24 855:6 856:11 880:8 899:17 900:4,15 901:9,9 901:13 909:18,20 911:20,21,22 914:18 934:16,22 936:7 942:9 943:21 944:1,5,8 944:14,15,18 945:10 946:8,17 947:1,6,9,17 948:18,24 949:6 966:9,10,11,13,21 966:24 976:15 978:3,11 981:12 981:13 986:12 987:1 988:7 991:6 991:13 date 754:4 765:2 768:21 779:22 797:22 805:22 809:7,9,12 810:13 815:12 821:21 822:23 830:11 833:19 838:8,9 843:13 848:12 857:3 863:3 900:23,24 909:22 912:24 930:13 965:20 1007:4 1056:13 1057:21 1058:3 dated 784:11 788:19 869:17 889:8 1007:3 1008:16 dates 839:10 841:7 846:6 1029:12 david 747:3 753:23 902:4 day 746:11 885:8 885:14 887:7 922:8 980:15 1058:22 days 779:2 804:9 843:25 921:23 927:8 942:17 dbr.com 753:14 dc 752:4 dd 806:3 deal 898:5 923:21 940:15,16,18 966:9 1006:2 1021:8 1031:14 dealing 814:12 895:7 953:19 dealt 915:25 dean 888:23 892:16 899:8 916:23 1019:25 1020:1 1026:5 1027:1 1049:12,22 1055:10 dear 789:7 899:10 943:18 950:22,24 967:14 976:4 981:2 985:15 1024:22 1026:6,11 death 934:17 943:23 944:10,23 946:6,8,10 947:3 949:1,11 970:25 993:14 1051:9 debate 881:10 882:3 decade 821:5 december 768:22 769:7 830:21 853:8 933:21 965:21 981:5 decide 779:5 decided 876:23 905:15 906:9 1019:22 decisions 952:22 1023:24 1024:1 declared 794:25 decorate 890:6 decoration 890:7 921:17 defend 972:12 defendant 750:8 750:12 defendants 746:8 747:11 748:11 749:10 1043:2 defense 806:4,8,12 971:23 1046:21 deficiencies 823:1 826:21 defined 938:14,15 963:8 defines 1018:10 definition 762:22 771:6 801:16,20 801:24 802:2 852:15 definitive 1006:3 deirdra 746:19 1057:3,20 delay 928:21,22 940:2 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [delayed - discredit] Page 18 delayed 1024:6 delete 769:17 974:14,15,16 978:21,25 deleted 956:25 deliberate 797:11 deliberations 1021:14 1025:9 delicacy 983:12 delicate 906:22 delivered 970:11 dentons 753:6 dentons.com 753:9 department 909:2 dependability 802:11,21 depends 1036:20 deponent 1056:1 depose 1042:14 deposed 878:24 884:8 deposit 865:9 deposited 921:20 deposition 746:10 754:3 887:7 1041:7 1042:19,20 1043:6,11,20 1056:4 1058:3 depositions 996:10 996:13,16,19 1028:16 deposits 1016:8 1017:14 depth 816:6 951:16 derivation 1015:23 describe 908:5 962:8 described 757:19 761:6 762:14,17 762:21 763:5 946:21 1036:12 describes 1033:2 description 812:19 1044:8 1045:2 1046:2 1047:2 1048:2 1049:2 1050:2 1051:2 1052:2 1053:2 1054:2 1055:2 designation 758:1 758:4,7 designations 755:23 761:9 designed 781:22 976:9 desirable 920:13 desire 948:17 desired 972:5 desk 759:11 761:16 destroyed 1032:15 detail 838:13 940:8 detailed 831:1 details 835:10 889:21 detect 776:3 783:8 detected 793:20 793:24 795:2 800:8 812:21 832:25 870:10,16 870:18 871:17 872:13,23 1007:23 detecting 872:9 1009:3 1037:19 detection 782:22 782:25 783:3,5 786:22 817:2 818:24 819:8,13 820:8 832:3,8 833:4 863:24 864:2,4 871:13 872:17 873:4,18 1007:10,17,20 1009:14 1010:16 1047:13 1054:3 determination 1047:9 determine 798:23 902:9 developed 843:19 919:10 device 1009:4 dgi 756:12 diagram 841:8 diagrams 840:25 dialogue 858:13 860:1 867:8,12 876:14 880:19,22 882:3 diapering 875:3 877:3 difference 997:14 997:19 differences 970:6 998:22 different 788:9 802:15 803:15 805:15 812:25 828:10 834:5 841:7,9 844:5 845:4 855:12,19 860:4,21 883:12 887:3 913:13 930:1 933:8,13 938:25 939:4 944:12,25 946:15 947:13 948:19 949:13,21 957:20 962:11 967:24 973:6 977:25 978:9 990:25 991:17 995:1 997:5,7 1021:20 differential 1007:19 1054:5 difficult 966:25 992:8 1006:3 difficulty 797:11 diffraction 773:5 782:11,23 783:1,4 783:9 784:23 793:20,24 839:11 844:16 848:10 902:8 digit 886:12 dilly 928:19 diminish 901:10 diminished 899:18 899:23 dinner 860:11 direct 847:10 917:9 direction 943:1 director 807:3 869:14 889:1 896:2 933:25 936:21 1030:2 disagree 759:14 761:9,13,15 902:22 1039:21,22 disappear 998:10 discernible 971:15 disclose 1020:9 disconnected 1019:13 discredit 923:2,10 924:14,14,19 1008:11 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [discrediting - dta] Page 19 discrediting 922:25 discredits 922:16 discrete 917:10 discuss 797:10 878:13 934:1 discussed 777:16 779:1 851:14 909:15 974:8 1030:4 discussing 777:3,6 discussion 831:2 882:3 980:3,8 981:19,23 982:1 982:10,13,23 1025:11 1030:8 discussions 771:17 859:11,12 908:22 1052:20 disease 993:17 diseases 954:21 disfavorable 898:8 dispatch 928:13 dispensing 829:14 dispersion 782:14 816:17 disproved 922:19 923:16 924:4 disputing 940:19 dissuade 892:17 distant 816:24 distributed 1021:6 distribution 934:4 1024:3 distributor 895:25 disturbed 917:23 917:25 disturbing 917:20 divergence 802:24 divided 803:5 division 747:1 748:1749:1 1008:24 1030:3 1054:10 dlaterra 751:6 docket 747:6 748:6 749:5 doctor 768:16 937:17 document 756:6 759:19 768:13,15 773:25 775:22 f 791:1,25 798:2 808:6 811:2 814:14,17 818:3 819:25 823:2,10 824:20 837:12 841:5 847:11,22 851:22,23 852:2,6 853:3,5 866:9 867:2 868:12 917:22 976:16 977:8 1007:3 1008:17 1014:8 1028:9,11 documentation 812:11,13 835:19 851:10,25 859:10 860:7 documents 754:24 777:17 790:4 796:2 799:6 835:21 843:8 844:11 848:22,25 851:14 852:21 896:12 897:19 1014:7 1025:14 1027:21 1041:7,9 1041:13 1042:17 1043:4 doing 755:10 777:15,18,21 778:9,10 786:16 802:22 804:19 819:13 839:15 840:7 841:22 843:10,21 856:20 860:21 861:14,15 861:25 864:5 875:19,20 877:8 877:10 888:16 890:20 891:21,23 892:17 898:23 918:19 923:7 924:3 954:24 960:25 985:18 1010:6,9,20,21 dollars 775:16 940:4 dolomite 964:13 974:16 979:7,14 979:15,18,20 dolomitic 956:24 domestically 767:23 don 973:22 984:19 1020:22 1024:20 1024:22 donald 984:5 1051:22 door 860:2 dose 885:22,23 doubled 990:3 doubt 945:13 970:4 douglas 746:3 doukas 750:18 d r 746:10 753:23 768:15,16 769:25 770:15 776:5 777:6 779:11 798:17 800:2 801:5,15 802:7 808:23 831:1,3 892:8,8,8 896:16 897:18 898:12 899:1,13 905:1,1 908:12 915:25 916:22 918:15 919:6 925:17,17 926:4 928:23 937:22 938:7 939:12,24 940:23 951:1 952:6 960:17 966:5,19 966:21 969:16 970:4 971:20 1044:3 1058:4,20 draft 1005:1 1042:8 drafted 794:17 drank 1027:4 draw 885:7 drawbacks 783:13 drawn 1032:17 dream 929:2 drifting 957:23 drilling 957:23 drinker 753:11 drive 752:13 753:12 drop 767:1 775:21 817:12 dropped 995:14 drp 1050:17 drug 807:15 830:3 drugs 828:13,14 828:15 dry 954:25 dta 1007:8,11,14 1007:23 1008:5,24 1009:2,4 1010:2,6 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [dta - epidemiological] Page 20 1010:15 1054:10 dual 952:8 due 929:16 975:7 dump 1036:18 dunst 750:18 dupont 1008:23 1009:2,4,7,20 1010:1,15,22 1054:9 duration 885:4 dust 787:16 945:12 949:23 959:22 1012:24 1054:17 dusting 874:20 876:23 895:23 966:20 dusts 958:19 976:10 duty 1042:1_____ ________ e_______ e 750:1,1 751:1,1 752:1,1 753:1,1,2 877:22 878:14 902:5 1044:1,7 e.g. 898:2 earlier 811:3 812:15 815:16 843:5 844:25 851:15 862:12 865:4 895:17 898:12 921:7 924:25 974:8 1036:2 earliest 779:22 815:14 early 784:8 805:18 814:17 843:6,18 844:24 845:12 851:7 859:20 877:18 879:5 earth 904:10 easier 873:22 874:13 easily 843:7 909:20 1038:6 easy 893:23 894:2 894:17 eat 884:16,16 885:14 ec2n 746:17 ed 910:22 edge 923:22 edicated 927:6 edited 961:8 978:16 editing 957:3,6 959:16 960:13 980:5 edition 1004:25 editor 925:5 962:16 editorial 974:4 978:18 1018:8 effect 805:7 823:23 892:7 893:7 894:11 989:14 1004:16 effective 1023:20 effort 968:1,3 egilman 753:23 eight 772:21 eighteen 902:7,24 either 775:12 783:21 786:25 791:5 807:22 808:19 824:23 825:11 832:6 840:7 851:23 861:3 866:13 886:13 903:3 947:8 951:10 971:18 1023:6 elected 773:6 electro 771:7 electron 771:25 772:23 773:3,4 783:1,2 784:22,23 815:9 818:17 839:19 843:18 864:3 870:12 872:6 921:18 1045:9 electronics 923:20 elements 967:17 1014:22,25 elevated 997:6,9,9 1000:2 1001:12 eliminates 783:16 elizabeth 751:16 ellis 750:8 else's 977:7 em 771:7 email 878:9,12 1049:3 emails 853:18 1041:15 embark 892:7 embarrassment 909:21 emphasis 801:17 emphasized 972:25 employ 818:19 employed 778:3 786:23 805:15 844:17 847:12 employee 788:23 795:14 804:2 831:22 852:9 937:22 1020:13 1057:12,14 employees 934:15 984:10 991:21 employing 801:6 809:4 819:7 820:2 enclosed 789:8 1009:1 1032:9 enclosing 980:3 encounter 984:11 encourage 890:10 ended 895:6 endorsed 799:10 energy 889:22 england 886:19 889:19 900:11 934:3 1019:14,25 1020:6 1024:4 english 930:18 956:4,14 979:4 982:2,4,17 983:6 1014:8 1015:9 1019:22 1022:7,14 1024:4 1025:2 1026:14 ensure 936:7 942:8 974:7 enthusiastic 971:5 entire 906:23 941:5 964:9 970:10 983:16 entirely 957:20 entirety 1043:15 entitled 854:22 907:25 1025:3 entries 757:24 envelope 984:2 environment 885:13 environmental 885:3 983:9 epidemiological 930:25 933:23 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [epidemiological - exhibit] Page 21 934:2,20 935:5 936:5,24 938:2 951:1 991:25 1002:9 1020:11 1050:22 1051:4,8 1051:14 epsilon 901:21 904:8 908:2 1050:5 equal 789:24 795:3 990:12 1001:2 equally 939:2 equals 1004:8 equipment 783:16 841:9 equivalent 762:6 920:5 erin 753:7 erin.carpenter 753:9 errata 1058:1 erred 905:17 906:11 erroneous 1032:19 1033:3 error 931:14 errors 906:23 907:12 909:20,22 910:21914:16 926:6 1032:13 esdp 849:16 esophageal 990:9 990:20,21 993:20 994:2 995:22 1003:4,21 1005:9 1005:11 esophagus 989:20 990:2 1002:2 especially 964:11 983:16 esq 750:3,4,9,13 750:18 751:3,3,8 751:14,19 752:2,3 752:8,12,21,21 753:2,7,12 essence 787:19 essential 940:23 952:14 essentially 917:20 918:1 1036:24 establish 868:13 889:14 established 821:4 848:11 867:10 882:15 894:16,21 894:22 establishing 771:8 1026:19 establishment 889:22 estimated 934:19 estrin 1008:20 1046:9 1054:8 et 746:7 747:10 748:10 749:9 1012:4,14 1044:15 1054:14 etheridge 747:3,4 996:20 1058:3 european 1022:19 1029:11 evaluate 919:10 1035:6 evaluated 839:24 844:1 1035:3 evaluating 1021:19 evaluation 840:8 844:3,10 1011:8 1011:11 event 873:12,15 876:24 events 874:20 everybody 796:18 evidence 823:1 844:22 994:24 997:18 998:21 1011:8 exact 768:8 774:18 834:22 848:24 1033:18 exactly 756:4 769:14 946:21 1010:5 1030:12 examination 754:6 783:14 852:13 918:25 921:18 1044:4,13 examine 893:13 examined 818:17 902:8 903:1 908:3 919:11 1020:13 examining 917:19 example 828:18 873:6 933:4 1022:21,25 excellent 951:4 959:2 exception 1041:14 1041:20 1056:4 exchange 907:13 1042:12 excipient 828:22 excipients 828:14 828:17 exclude 992:5 excuse 930:12 executive 1023:11 exercise 875:19 876:4,5 917:21 exert 942:25 943:4 exhibit 755:2,3 756:8 757:11,12 758:4,6 759:21,22 762:20,22 763:2 765:22 767:16,18 768:25 769:4,23 769:24 772:19,20 775:19,20 779:3,4 780:13,14 785:19 785:20 788:14,16 794:14,15 798:3 805:25 806:1 810:6 814:23,24 817:17,20 818:1 820:14,15 827:15 827:16 830:16,17 833:11,12,16 841:1,2 853:4 857:18,19 867:22 869:10,11 878:6,7 883:4,5 886:10,11 888:20,21 896:23 896:24 899:4,5 901:18,19 904:24 904:25 907:15,16 916:17,18 926:21 926:22 930:11 933:18,20 936:14 936:15 939:6,7 943:12,13 950:10 950:11 954:9,10 960:3 962:23,24 964:23 967:7,8 969:12 973:7,8 975:18,19 980:13 980:14 983:19,20 985:1,2 992:25 993:1 1006:19,20 1008:14,15 1011:19,20 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [exhibit - fda] Page 22 1012:22 1014:5 1017:25 1018:1,20 1018:21 1024:18 1024:19 1026:4 1028:20,21 1031:9 1043:11,16 1044:8 1044:9,12,15 1045:2,3,7,12,15 1045:19 1046:2,3 1046:9,12,15,20 1047:2,3,8,12,15 1047:18,21 1048:2 1048:3,9,12,15,18 1048:22 1049:2,3 1049:7,9,12,16,21 1050:2,3,7,10,14 1050:17,21 1051:2 1051:3,7,12,18,22 1052:2,3,8,12,15 1052:19 1053:2,3 1053:7,10,13,17 1053:20 1054:2,3 1054:8,12,16,21 1054:23 1055:2,3 1055:6,10,13,16 1055:20 exhibits 886:12 exist 855:12 existed 852:7 existence 897:19 exists 914:1 expect 763:24 764:1,13 765:10 765:15 766:25 814:13 822:8 836:2 885:1 891:7 954:8 989:25 990:2,5,10,13,16 expected 887:1 927:7 964:1 988:23 989:9 995:8 1001:16 1004:2,3,21,22 1005:5,9,10,10,11 1005:12 1006:6,14 1036:18 expense 783:16 785:5 expensive 918:18 940:7 experiment 894:11 895:2,4 experiments 776:5 893:16 894:15 895:11 expert 941:16 962:16 1031:17 expertise 783:15 785:4 869:7 880:13 923:21,23 experts 934:21 935:4,5 936:5 960:16,23 1031:20 expires 1058:25 explain 989:6 explained 878:14 1022:7 explains 975:14 explanation 975:9 975:16 991:20 1035:15 explanations 992:14 explore 941:1 1031:21 exports 898:13 937:6,19 938:12 exposed 871:12 873:3,13,16 876:11 881:12 947:13 949:24 957:20,25 958:18 1001:14 exposure 871:8 873:10 874:19,25 875:7,11,15 882:6 882:9 885:4 897:20 945:12 949:22 995:7 999:21 expressed 807:4 808:24 895:5 1003:5 extend 971:14 1043:2 extended 1042:12 extent 851:6 1037:8 1042:4 extolling 1009:2 extra 1006:4 extremely 879:12 879:12 1016:11 1017:11,17 eye 939:3 eyeballs 850:11 eyes 1036:10 ________ f_______ f 752:17,17 800:18 801:1 face 814:10 facilities 786:25 820:25 facility 826:1 891:20 fact 758:8 774:11 782:7 784:12 825:15 848:22 849:13 915:11 966:22 980:18 982:18 992:5 995:15 1005:17 1010:22 1020:12 1030:23 factor 897:19 971:23 factors 992:2 1006:1 factory 813:7,11 849:13,16 869:6 factual 960:11 961:8 964:10 fail 791:15 800:25 808:4 failed 789:20 791:4,9,13 793:6,9 793:11,19 794:10 795:1 808:17 809:5,11 failure 801:11 807:21,22 fair 756:17,22 759:6 768:9 775:16 778:5 781:4 822:6 861:2 874:16 1025:25 fairly 903:5 904:6 fallopian 880:2 familiar 778:11 816:25 896:16 904:3,9 916:22 919:8 family 969:24 far 754:22 777:17 811:4 858:11 875:14 917:6 970:17 995:8 1005:13 1009:21 fast 1028:12 fatal 880:23 881:6 favor 971:18 favorable 809:17 fda 771:12 781:8,9 786:7 787:2 788:3 790:5,9 791:8 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [fda - five] Page 23 795:12 798:14 807:3,19 808:20 808:23 830:23 853:6,23 854:5,16 854:23 855:1,3,15 855:22 856:6,13 856:15,15,16 857:4,6,23,25 858:10,13,15,21 858:23 859:2,6,7 859:11,15,18,21 860:8 861:6,9,11 862:2,15,22 864:16,20,24,25 865:10,16 866:4 866:15,20,21,23 867:3,7,8,13 876:12 910:24 911:3,6,7,13 912:17 915:13,22 915:23 927:4 958:23 965:22 966:6,9 967:3 1048:15 1050:18 1052:13 fda's 857:13 1048:12 february 936:16 936:20 federation 920:1,4 feed 834:17,21,25 feel 773:11 780:18 796:19 829:18 859:17 889:12 1032:15,19 feeling 770:24 feelings 1033:1 fellow 798:18 950:15 felt 770:13 771:6 947:18 1032:13 ferry 898:14,16 950:13 970:3,16 971:4 973:23 984:19 1020:21,22 1020:25 1021:7 1023:5,14 1024:5 1024:8,20 1051:22 1055:6 fiber 762:5 fibers 756:10 759:25 760:14,19 762:10,13,15 763:11 765:10 767:11,12 782:25 870:11,16,18 871:2 872:9 875:1 875:4 876:25 877:3 879:10,24 975:10,14 1012:9 1039:17 1040:13 fibrous 766:7,20 770:24 771:5,8 801:17,20 831:5 832:15,23 833:4 863:12 865:8 866:14 867:15 879:25 880:1 902:10 956:24 964:13 974:16 979:7,13,14,17,20 field 801:15,21 869:7 fifth 752:22 793:8 870:3 fight 878:18 879:3 figueroa 751:14 753:7 figure 869:20 1038:18 figured 1019:15 figures 1036:16 file 770:2,5 958:23 965:6,9,15,19 1045:3 1052:12 files 851:24,24 fill 836:11 839:6 840:20 842:16 filled 842:7 849:15 1037:13 filter 928:24 final 951:3 978:6 982:10 983:18 finalized 1042:10 finally 1043:9 finance 900:7 971:11 financial 963:3 financially 1057:13 find 766:3 769:12 777:4 790:8 808:4 815:15 843:5 844:5 845:13 846:14 863:25 884:10 891:3 923:13 928:3 1009:5 1010:2 1019:19 1020:16 1056:5 finding 805:16 862:1 865:8 866:12 867:14,15 891:7 913:23 927:18 1007:8 findings 761:21 773:17 774:9 866:1 890:11 940:25 972:22 999:19 fine 817:1 850:9 989:8 1001:15 fines 758:13,14,16 758:17 760:4,8,9,9 760:19 763:23 764:2,3,4,6 766:3 767:3,7,9 finished 773:19 833:21,24 834:3 947:5 1048:5 fireworks 967:10 firmly 889:13 first 756:6 759:23 760:8,8 780:16 781:19 782:10 794:21 800:3 802:25 810:24 812:8 815:25 816:1,4 841:14,15 854:2 873:11 887:7 890:19 903:6 908:21 919:11922:8 935:1 943:24 946:11949:15 956:21 957:9 961:22 964:9 969:17 976:2,16 976:23 977:7,19 981:11 982:2 987:9,16 992:13 1016:2 1026:16 firsthand 951:21 firstly 889:10 five 757:24 758:12 760:19 771:11,24 865:14 903:14 990:25 991:9,17 994:19,23 995:1 997:5,7,21 998:3 998:18 999:11 1000:2 1006:12 1035:3 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [flag - gassetts] Page 24 flag 815:25 flagged 815:1 fleet 753:24 flip 1043:10,12 1055:20 float 834:17,21,24 floats 861:8 floor 751:4 florham 753:13 flotation 861:25 flow 989:7 fly 900:10 focus 947:25 948:11,16 979:18 focusing 979:18 999:14 1003:18 fold 1003:5 foley 751:19 foleymansfield.c... 751:21 folks 776:9,9 798:12 follow 819:19 853:18 972:6 1049:13 followed 855:13 855:14 following 757:9 786:23 787:8 800:4 812:19 819:15 831:3 868:16 925:22 952:9 967:16 1019:12 1024:1 follows 889:19 1015:21 food 807:15 885:13 foods 884:10 force 785:24 786:6 786:24 788:23 789:10 794:23 795:21 797:9 798:7,21 830:19 831:23 832:1 833:4 1019:18 1046:5,16 1047:21 forecast 774:19 forecasted 773:24 foregoing 1056:3 1057:5,8 forestall 1024:25 forget 977:13 996:9 form 766:20 776:23 778:22 794:18 961:6 962:4 964:19 1023:15 formally 944:14 formed 1023:4 former 1020:13 fortify 898:1 forward 822:8,10 857:14 931:3 984:17 forwarded 839:10 found 756:9 761:19 762:7 766:2 788:4 790:11,14 794:10 818:7 866:8 871:2 872:6,7,22 873:19 874:10 910:5 921:16 923:15 925:25 926:8 999:20 1022:9 1031:25 four 758:16 778:12 813:13,16 813:18 973:14 978:9 1042:13 fourier 826:5 fourteen 800:13 800:14 fourth 870:1 framework 1012:17 francisco 970:11 franco 1028:4 frankly 933:10 frazier 750:13 886:5 fred 890:5 895:23 896:5 free 780:18 788:5 812:9 919:12 975:6 984:7 freedom 811:5 frequency 834:10 838:13,18 847:13 852:3 friend 970:4 friends 941:4 front 756:19 841:14 884:3 915:23 920:21 1004:20 fronts 966:11 1021:13 frost 750:9 753:12 769:1 814:19 817:22,24 837:18 837:21,25 838:4 1006:23 1014:16 1041:4,21,24 1042:22 1043:9 frustrated 1020:5 ftir 826:3,5 full 843:10 914:6 939:21 991:19 fuller 886:16 892:8,16 916:23 1049:9 fully 938:7 1011:9 fund 941:22 funded 922:14 924:11 funds 886:20 further 786:21 797:12 920:12 922:16 924:14 966:11 1042:14,15 1042:17,19 1057:12 furthermore 1042:11 future 773:23 972:24_________ ______ g______ g 969:22 983:22 1018:7 gaffrey 750:18 768:12,21 797:22 797:24 830:11,14 900:23,25 930:12 930:15,19 965:20 1006:25 1043:8 gallagher 798:11 1048:3 gamble 752:16 game 876:8,9 games 875:23 gamma 901:21 904:8 908:2 1050:5 gap 844:9 garding 968:3 1029:25 gasper 853:6 854:5 1048:13 gassetts 755:18 756:15 760:21 761:21 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [gastro - good] Page 25 gastro 902:20 gather 940:3 gathered 944:19 gaughran 1045:7 gavin 935:7 943:14 960:4 973:22 975:20 980:19 983:5,21 985:5 gay 987:10 gee 860:13 general 770:24 773:3 811:24 914:3 952:19 964:3 988:25 991:2 997:22 1014:24 generally 766:7 782:23 881:7 883:10 890:24 956:3 generated 773:7 generation 968:4 974:1 genetic 956:22 gentleman 953:20 982:2 geological 909:13 958:22 959:13 1050:12 geologist 909:14 geology 909:2 george 798:12 806:3 1008:20 germanasca 1016:9 1017:15 getting 857:12 897:13 906:22 954:25,25 959:17 gi 755:18 757:13 758:17 759:3 761:5 gianfranco 1019:5 1021:1,15 1023:21 1023:23 1026:13 1027:5,22,25 1028:2 giant 1036:18 giovanni 976:4 give 760:5 785:3 800:15 813:15 814:25 852:20 857:3 865:2 897:25 935:23 953:21 954:23 956:16 959:7 961:21 1004:3 1040:1 given 771:20 851:6,9 853:6 896:4 951:9 975:9 1015:2 gives 838:12 969:6 1020:12 giving 839:15 861:19 862:14 888:3 906:5 945:18 955:22 956:10,10 980:8 glaxosmithkline 752:10 global 1048:22 go 754:8 755:13 756:3 758:21 759:19,23 761:17 762:1 767:3 774:9 784:12 785:11 787:5 789:14 790:24 791:25 792:1 793:16 794:2 801:14 806:19 807:1 808:5 809:13,13 814:16 816:11,12 820:16 825:4 827:14 833:16 834:25 837:11 838:12 841:3 846:24 850:25 853:24,25 854:21 855:20 857:14 858:2,8 859:19 860:11 862:17 864:23 867:23 868:7 870:3 871:7 871:23 874:7 877:6 895:16 903:22 906:16 907:7 908:15,21 908:21 912:2 916:19 917:3 918:22,22 919:4 919:24 920:8,19 922:12 927:21 930:21,22 931:3 933:21 934:13 938:6,6 940:8 954:11 955:16 964:24 965:18 966:1,10 970:15 978:10 984:16 987:5,21 1007:2 1010:1 1011:21 1013:3 1014:6,14 1015:3 1016:5,5 1020:18 1021:7 1029:9 1031:13 1033:8 1040:16 goal 899:20 901:4 995:10 goes 766:1 834:20 858:3 885:9 908:5 959:10 965:9 1021:22 going 756:3,25 763:18 765:2 772:4 773:12 774:25 775:21 777:24 788:8,8 790:2,3 814:25 815:3 817:17 820:14 822:8,10 827:14 833:13 836:22 840:13 844:23 845:8 847:1 849:18 850:20 853:3 860:12,20 861:4 864:11,17 865:19 878:18 880:18 882:25 885:7 886:19 888:4 891:17 892:12 894:11,23 895:2,4 897:17 898:25 904:12 911:13 912:2,5 914:24 926:16 934:7,25 935:3,19,23 936:1 936:4 938:13,16 941:9 944:8 945:4 945:10 946:20 952:3 953:5,14,22 964:18 967:10 979:16 981:9 984:16 989:16 996:23 1006:21 1008:14 1010:23 1021:1 1031:10 1035:24 1040:20 good 754:9,10 770:13 808:22 837:8 850:15,16 858:12 890:13 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [good - head] Page 26 898:5 901:13 940:15,16,18 980:2 985:11,13 gordon 827:23 gotten 985:11 987:9 goudie 773:1 1045:7 govern 875:15 government 828:3 828:8 886:20 887:16 976:10 governmental 828:25 829:1,2 grab 1002:3 grade 754:17 810:10 867:25 868:18 895:25 919:11 957:1 981:15 1019:20 1048:19 grades 800:21,25 graduate 908:24 909:1 915:3 gram 817:8,9 842:6,24 1040:7,7 gram m ar 966:16 grams 842:1,6 grand 751:20 grange 1011:23 1054:12 grant 825:6 graphite 897:10 953:1 1014:10 1049:18 grasso 892:8 gratified 770:11 gratitude 952:25 grave 892:10,19 895:5 great 858:17 923:21 935:9 966:9 greater 777:4 779:19 784:23 789:23 795:3 1004:24 greek 1022:21,23 1022:24 green 755:14 905:6,17 906:11 906:22 907:3,11 908:15,18 909:15 911:8 914:15 916:2 924:25 1033:11 1050:12 greenstone 750:3 greer 752:12 groseclose 751:19 ground 767:23 768:2,5,8,9 884:15 grounds 1037:22 group 752:15,17 752:19 770:16,18 911:8914:15 931:13 932:17 944:13 945:1 946:16 948:20 949:14,22 970:16 971:10 982:24 992:1 groups 917:19 947:14 grow 1014:2 grown 884:11 guess 766:9 821:14 832:2,4 836:22 844:4 873:22 888:13 901:12 904:21 928:17 929:2 978:24 979:13 1035:7 guidance 1023:11 guide 1015:10 1025:3 guiding 886:22 887:23 888:3 guy 830:22 892:16 895:4 914:24 928:9 938:12 953:22 967:3 971:7 975:24 976:20 977:10 guy's 983:14 guys 755:6 770:3 808:20 821:14 892:15,15,16 895:3 908:14 911:1 915:25 916:13 937:9 985:12 988:24 1004:16 1009:15 1011:1 gv 921:4 gynaecology 890:14 h h 1fl3iV2 1044-7 half 790:8 885:5 988-24 hamm 868:19 869-1 hammer 914:25 hammond 902:18 hammondsville 868-18 hamster 968:11 hand 759 16 762 1 QfiQ-17 handed 756:8 759:22 handwriting 774:25 919:13 953:5,6 985:7,12 handwritten 901:25 hang 845:22 hanging 1022:2 happen 860:12 876:3 happened 851:15 979:9 1028:6 happening 1026:7 happenings 927:3 1050:18 happens 860:19 happy 950:25 hard 879:13 1015:22 1016:11 1016:16,18,25 1017:4,6,9,11,17 1017:20 1018:10 1018:11 hardy 746:16 750:13 harmful 981:16 1014:22 1015:1 harold 776:13 harris 752:7 harrisbeach.com 752:10 harwell 889:22 hawkins 751:13 hazard 951:6 hazards 899:18,23 901:11 he 755:20 757:13 757:24 761:6 762:17,21 head 770:18 798:9 877:15,18 937:24 1008:21 1039:6 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [heading - hypothesize] Page 27 heading 760:11 767:8 831:23 870:2 995:25 1021:14 health 854:12 899:18,23 901:11 951:22 983:9 healthy 989:13 hear 906:20 1001:17 heard 891:18 909:5 951:1 hearsay 852:12 1041:20 heart 828:15 1019:10 heartened 889:10 heights 1019:12 held 812:25 899:16 909:16 933:25 936:21 help 929:18 953:23 960:19,21 974:6 978:2,2 1023:9 1024:15 helpful 951:5 1026:18 helps 817:15 868:13 henderson 751:8 921:13,20 922:19 923:16 924:5 henderson's 922:17,18 923:10 924:14,19 henry 751:9 herbal 787:19 herford 746:3,3 751:17,22 752:24 753:14 996:17 1058:3 herrington 752:2 hey 860:11 867:13 911:13 916:2 1009:5 1011:1 high 762:8,14 763:5 765:4 880:24 881:4 884:22,24 957:1 1016:10 1017:16 1019:20 higher 930:4 highlight 769:9 774:25 787:6 794:21 816:1,2,12 816:13 817:6 902:17 917:18 940:21 944:4 952:2 955:4 1016:6 highlighted 843:13 953:8 highlighter 755:14 highlighting 861:11 highly 809:17 hildick 892:8,16 897:7 899:8 916:23 928:12,23 933:22 935:8 939:9 943:14 954:13 960:4 973:22 975:20 977:5,17 980:19 983:5,21 985:5 1049:16,21 1050:21 1051:3,7 1051:12,18 1052:3 1052:8 1053:7,10 1053:13,17 histology 923:18 histories 897:8,22 1049:17 hit 927:8 hitting 914:25 hi 776:8 hmm 754:15 755:1 803:21 819:22 843:24 867:1 1010:13 1043:17 hoagland 750:18 hoaglandlongo.c... 750:20 hold 764:25 833:14 933:17 961:9,12,17 1019:20 1037:11 holding 834:25 862:10 899:13 holdings 752:17 752:17 home 875:16 966:23,25 homogenize 837:9 homogenized 835:4,12,15,16,19 835:20 837:7 honest 813:15 843:3 860:9 891:18 honestly 929:12 honorarium 940:24 941:5 hood 826:11 hope 835:17 836:3 881:5 899:16 901:8 941:25 985:19 hoped 788:1 888:2 998:9 1020:5 hopefully 776:17 hoping 888:13 1013:9 hopkins 746:10 754:3 1044:3 1056:3,12 1057:5 1058:4,20 host 957:23,25 958:20,22 959:4 hour 816:4,5,8 1021:19 house 773:7,20 783:22 786:25 815:23 843:20 960:17 962:6,11 962:14 978:4 982:7 housekeeping 825:25 826:24 996:8 housekeeping's 827:2 houston 750:10,15 hower 927:5,5 hptylaw.com 751:16 humans 900:5 hundred 858:9 864:4 1034:25 1038:25 hundreds 1031:1 hurst 753:2 hv66 818:8 hypotheses 881:13 881:16,18,24 hypothesis 821:24 880:5,7 882:20 947:16,20 948:13 991:12 hypothesize 821:21 1035:17 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [hypothesizing - indicated] Page 28 hypothesizing 948:10 hypothetical 854:6,17 871:8 873:10,16874:18 979:6,9 hypothetically 860:5 862:5 979:5 i i.e. 770:25 794:24 886:20 901:9 922:21 947:11 idea 928:23 958:16,25 959:2 1019:10 1020:9 1038-13 ideas 1013:10 identical 918:19 identification 755:3 767:18 769:4,24 772:20 773:5 775:20 779:4 780:14 785:20 788:16 794:15 798:3 806:1 810:6 814-24 818:1 820-15 827-16 830:17 833:12 841:2 853:4 857:19 867:22 869 11 878-7 883:5,15 886:11 888-21 896:24 899-5 90M 9 904-25 907:16 914-17 916:18 921:15 922:18 926 22 930:11 933:20 936:15 939:7 943:13 950:11 954:10 960:3 962:24 967:8 968:3 969:12 973:8 975:19 980:14 983:20 985:2 993:1 1006:20 1008:15 1011:20 1012:22 1014:5 1018:1,21 1024:19 1026:4 1028:21 1031:9 identified 1043:15 identify 768:12 866:10 893:23 894:2,17 967:16 identifying 955:6 984:9 ignition 813:22 ii 789:21 793:16 794:10 795:2 801:7 903:23 illness 971:1 imerys 751:12 753:9 1012:1 immediate 939:14 941:2 immediately 816:25 impact 952:20 1024:25 implicated 884:20 implication 774:21 implications 920:9 922:14 implied 911:9 implies 774:18 im portant 827:2 877:11 931:6 933:2 945:10 951:19 956:25 981:10 984:8 1012:7 imported 918:25 1034:23 importer 971:5 1035:18 imports 898:14 950:15 impossible 1022:22 impression 771:20 1020:6,14 1036:8 impressions 969:18 improper 887:8 942:25 943:4 improved 807:23 impurities 902:3 902:10 903:3 905:7 907:25 1009:3,5 1010:3,7 1014:21 1015:11 1015:20 1016:2 1017:9 1025:4 1050:3 1054:21 inadequate 914:15 incidence 944:11 944:24 946:14 947:12 948:18 949:12,21,24 964:2 1005:13 include 771:6 797:12 810:16 811:14 813:19 814:3 964:15 980:4,9,24 982:14 995:15 1016:18,19 1043:13 1047:4 included 787:8 811:10812:1 980:23 981:13 998:5 includes 903:17 including 787:3 798:14 805:16 807:24 826:10 859:12 912:22 981:18 1017:9 inclusions 975:8 incomplete 806:21 975:8 inconsistencies 794:23 inconsistent 802:16 incorporated 840:2 incorporates 801:7 increase 885:19 999:5 increased 949:24 989:22 990:22 991:1,9,18 992:16 992:17 994:6,13 994:20,24 995:2 995:11 996:1 998:17 1000:20 1001:19 1002:22 1003:3 1006:5,13 indefinite 972:22 indefinitely 1032:12 independent 938:21 961:1 975:24 indicate 829:17 866:19 903:2 indicated 823:18 886:19 899:15 913:3,7 946:20 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [indicated - involved] Page 29 971:13 972:7 976:8 indicates 794:23 796:10 956:23 indicating 1026:13 indication 826:16 826:17 900:15 indications 951:4 951:9 individual 796:5 884:8 909:9 921:3 1030:18,25 individually 747:8 748:8 749:7 752:15,18 individuals 917:10 994:24 1013:23 industrial 754:18 755:17 756:15,22 757:1 759:2,3,5 760:21,21 761:20 761:21 762:16 865:20,24 868:22 869:2 886:24 888:6,10,17 892:4 892:13 895:1 934:1 936:22 1044:10 industry 774:12 786:7,11 798:13 ` 830:4 855:6 856:2 857:3,6 879:12 880:16 920:10 1012:7 industry's 794:6 inference 1018:11 inferred 986:6 influence 887:8 917:9 920:15 932:3,10,12 933:5 942:25 943:4 inform 985:17 information 759:16 761:2,5,10 767:20 778:13 829:10,14,17 847:19 854:23 855:3,22 856:2 857:6 858:24 859:12,14 951:17 951:20 952:18 964:7 970:6 976:13 982:5,9,11 1012:13 1015:1 1025:13 informed 859:22 860:3,4 938:9,17 983:5 985:20 infrared 826:6 871:20 inhalation 968:10 inhale 829:14,24 830:6 1047:19 initial 769:8 789:8 859:24 962:13 1011:8,11 1044:17 initials 901:24 965:16 input 941:11 inside 765:14 803:2,23 insight 802:10 insignificant 1003:20 installment 969:7 instances 758:12 instant 817:4 institute 908:12 921:14 933:25 936:21 instituting 952:8 952:10,11 instruct 1033:7 instructed 905:15 906:9,16 1019:23 instructions 801:9 955:5,11 instructs 908:14 instrument 787:11 1008:23 1054:9 instruments 923:22,23 insure 934:21 insures 826:1 intended 960:8 intends 934:14 intensive 787:17 intentionally 805:17 1032:20 1033:3 inter 794:22 802:21 803:1 interest 747:8,9 748:8,9 749:7,8 752:16,18 891:1,7 899:18,23 900:9 901:11 974:22 1026:21 interested 888:9 888:10 899:13 915:22 938:1 944:6,21 945:24 949:7 959:21 984:9 1057:16 interesting 858:25 945:17,22 948:25 949:4 985:19 interestingly 992:16 interests 951:23 interfere 1008:11 internal 835:14 840:8 862:20,22 internally 1010:6 1011:5 international 967:18,21 1023:12 1052:16 interpret 992:8 interpretation 759:7,9,12 761:4 799:3 805:19 859:8 915:5,10 interrupt 989:6 1037:4 interval 1002:7,10 1002:15,25 1003:8 1005:18 intestinal 902:20 intimidate 912:3 intra 802:11 803:1 introduce 798:21 976:11 introduced 848:12 introduction 782:20 917:4 introductory 770:8 889:8 invalid 827:10 1032:17 invention 776:16 investigation 908:10 investigators 900:4,7 involved 835:25 852:25 853:2 860:2 908:10 931:13 939:18 940:11 941:15,16 952:11 973:25 974:2 984:5 1057:13 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [irma - johns] Page 30 irm a 749:3 isaac 752:12 iso 1013:4,19 1054:18 issue 827:6 835:9 838:8,9 885:6 908:2 948:4 1012:11 issued 780:15 issues 957:5 999:14,14 1033:10 italian 767:22 769:7,13,19 896:3 897:8,9,23,25 898:13,14,23 913:24 919:11 928:4,10 929:4,10 931:1 933:23 936:17 937:6,19 938:12 939:10 944:13,25 946:16 948:19 949:13 950:16 951:22 952:9 953:20 954:20 955:18 956:1,1 964:11 968:17 979:4 982:19,20,21 984:5 985:8 999:20 1014:9 1018:9,12 1020:4 1021:12,24 1022:1 1022:6,7,13 1023:11 1024:14 1027:22 1030:12 1044:14,16 1049:17 1050:23 1051:5,10,13 1052:4 1055:14 italians 933:11 952:17 italy 768:2,9 897:5 897:6,12,13 898:13 934:7 951:2,20,23 952:8 955:20,23 956:7 956:11,15 969:19 985:18 987:8 993:4 1021:1,7,23 1034:23 1049:19 1051:16 1052:6,21 1053:5,8,22 item 769:14 items 931:5 iteration 815:14 iw 916:21 1050:15 _ _ _ _ J_ _ _ _ j 750:9 807:2 902:5 909:2 j& 1051:18 j&j 778:10 795:23 796:25 798:12,12 798:18 819:19 823:25 839:10 842:21 846:12 858:22 880:10 892:15 900:10 909:24 910:12 912:22 917:8,9,14 920:22 924:11 929:24 934:3 953:9 967:18,21 967:21 972:5 975:20 984:19 1019:14 1023:8 1037:22 1044:15 1044:16 1045:3,7 1045:8,12,12,15 1045:15 1046:3,9 1046:12,20,20 1047:8,12,15,18 1048:3,4,24 1049:9,9,12,12,16 1049:16,21,22 1050:7,7,11,17,21 1050:22 1051:3,4 1051:7,8,12,13,23 1052:3,4,8,9,12,15 1052:19,19 1053:7 1053:10,13,14,17 1054:8,12,16,23 1054:24 1055:4,6 1055:10,10,17 j& j's 824:24 j& u 795:14 j.d. 1048:13 j4 801:19 803:14 807:13,20 812:24 836:12,20 839:1 839:15 843:10 j4 -l 780:5,9 781:2 781:19 785:21 786:21 788:10 789:21 790:21 793:19,23 794:10 795:1 799:8,16 801:7 803:19,20 809:4,5 812:21 813:11 831:4,23 832:8,25 834:10 838:20 840:12 841:22 842:23 1045:19 jack 753:12 794:16 jack.frost 753:14 jackson 752:13 january 772:21 785:22 833:18 834:1 901:21 908:1 983:23 jerry 908:11 1032:4 jersey 747:1 748:1 749:1 750:19 753:13 jm 928:13,18 929:18,24 930:1 jnjaz55 1044:14 1044:18 1045:14 1048:7 1049:11,15 1049:20,23 1050:9 1050:13,16,25 1051:6,11,17,21 1051:25 1052:7,11 1052:18,23 1053:9 1053:12,16,19 1054:22 1055:5,9 1055:12,15 jnjmx68 1044:11 1045:10,18 1046:23 1047:7,11 1047:14 1048:7,11 1050:6,20 1054:7 1054:25 jnjnll 1045:6,19 1046:8,11,14,19 1047:17,20,23 1048:17,21,25 1049:6,8 1052:14 1053:6 1054:11,15 1054:20 1055:19 joan 877:14 1049:3 job 746:25 1026:16 john 746:10 754:3 788:22 853:6 899:8 1044:3 1048:13 1056:3,12 1057:4 1058:4,20 johns 928:2,14 929:14 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [johnson - keep] Page 31 johnson 750:8,8 750:12,12 752:6,6 752:24,24 753:14 753:14 763:19,19 764:11,11 771:24 771:24 772:2,2 774:1,1 777:25,25 783:20,20 787:3,3 788:23,23 789:1,1 790:7,7 792:24,24 794:17,17 795:10 795:10 796:3,3 804:2,2 805:21,21 806:11,11 807:3,4 809:24,24 810:21 810:21 815:6,6,18 815:18,20 818:4,4 818:18,18 819:6,6 820:2,2 821:5,5,13 821:13 824:4,5,23 824:23 825:18,18 826:22,22 827:18 827:18 829:8,8,23 829:23 831:18,18 831:20,20,22,22 839:15,15 840:3,3 840:4,4,7,7 843:9 843:10 844:13,14 845:15,15,17,17 845:24,24 846:8,8 846:19,19 851:4,5 852:17,17,20,20 853:10,10,16,16 853:18,18 856:6,6 856:13,13 857:21 857:21,24,24 858:9,10,13,13,14 858:14 859:1,2,5,5 859:6,6,20,20 862:20,20 863:11 863:11 864:2,2 865:2,2 866:22,22 867:3,3,13,13 869:12,12 870:16 870:17 874:19,19 877:9,9 879:11,11 880:6 881:19,25 881:25 882:23,23 884:1,8,8 887:12 887:12 889:1,2 891:6,6,22,22,24 891:24 894:9,9 895:3,3,3,3 896:7 896:7 897:12,13 902:22,22 904:21 904:21 905:20,25 905:25 906:15,15 907:2,2 908:14,14 910:6,6,13,13 912:1,1,24,25 914:9,10 917:23 917:23 920:12,12 922:15,15 935:1,1 935:3,3 937:14,15 938:17,17 939:17 939:17 941:22,22 942:2,2 943:15,15 943:24,24 944:20 944:20 950:3,3,7,7 950:18,18 951:16 951:17 953:14,14 955:22,23 956:11 956:11 957:3,3 959:15,15 960:12 960:12,22,24 961:25,25 963:1,1 965:3,3 966:8,9 973:17,17 975:23 977:5,6,11,11,22 977:22 978:1,1,16 978:16 980:8,8 981:23,23 982:23 982:23 987:17,17 1007:13,13 1008:4 1008:4,10,10 1009:9,9,25,25 1010:5,5,8,8,21,21 1010:25,25 1011:4 1011:4,13,14,14 1013:22,23 1018:2 1018:2 1020:1,1 1023:14,14 1024:12,12 1027:3 1027:3,6,6 1030:1 1030:3,3 1031:13 1031:13 1033:7,7 1034:8,8,13,14 1036:17,17,21,21 1036:23,24 1040:12 1041:8,8 1041:9,10,11,11 1041:13,13,19,19 1042:11,12,16,17 1042:25,25 1044:13,13 1058:3 1058:3 johnson's 763:21 769:8 779:9,14,17 787:19 792:15 811:25 815:20 880:6 881:19 884:1 905:20 960:22,24 975:23 1011:13 1038:2 1040:4,12,14 1044:16 1045:16 johnston 806:3 1046:20 joint 970:4 jones 1048:4 1054:16 jordan 746:19 1057:3,20 joseph 902:5 journal 890:13,14 904:6,10 926:17 944:15 960:9 961:6,19 962:2,4,6 962:10,14,17,18 964:20970:9 973:12 976:21 977:14 978:4,7,8 1033:22,25 journals 890:10 891:8 962:8 jp 1011:23 jpmorgan 750:14 jr 779:11 jromano 752:23 julia 752:21 july 757:8 779:8 779:23 858:3 934:17 1048:15 jum p 833:13 jumped 820:17 june 810:13 811:21 889:8 905:1 907:18 912:24 930:18 943:15 1031:22 1051:20 jury 849:11 866:11 ________ ________ k_______ k 752:17,17 kagan 750:4 1041:6 kathleen 750:13 keen 928:23 929:25 keep 776:21 778:1 778:20 859:21 860:1,1,2,2,3 877:11 933:17 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [keep - late] Page 32 938:9,17 962:2 985:20 keeping 859:15 860:4 1026:24 keeps 939:3,3 kendra 1040:22 kept 955:5 962:20 984:10 1035:21 key 882:14 918:17 948:11,16 kfrazier 750:16 kill 881:1,2 kind 828:9,15 830:23 850:14 860:10 928:20 945:10,16 947:25 982:9 985:20 986:22 989:3 1008:12 1031:12 1039:25 kindly 985:17 king 752:20 kingdom 746:17 930:16 kleinfeld 986:6 knew 947:15,21 know 760:1,22 768:16 771:16 772:3 773:8 774:16 776:24 777:20 778:8,12 778:15,22 786:4 791:22 792:12,15 792:22,25 793:1 796:20 797:4 799:1 802:1,3 803:13,20,22 805:3,7,14 807:25 808:1 809:1 811:4 811:8,24 812:14 814:25 815:1 816:6 817:2,4 824:13,19 826:4 826:12 827:19 832:22 833:3,6 834:22 835:9,24 837:6 840:21 842:21 843:12,17 845:8,11 848:20 848:21 849:12,14 851:4 853:12 856:16 860:9,10 860:12,14 861:20 861:21 862:3,9 864:24 865:7 866:16 867:5,17 868:24 871:19 872:21 875:14,22 880:18 884:19 885:21 887:13 888:16 891:14 892:21 893:15 894:8,14 896:6,9 896:11 901:5,6 910:4 914:22,25 915:22 916:22 919:25 921:10 923:16 925:2,8 927:9,12,17 929:2 929:9 935:15 937:5 941:14 945:3 946:19 951:21 953:19 969:24 973:25 994:18 995:16 997:4 998:2,16,17 998:21 1000:1,13 1005:17 1013:13 1016:15 1031:13 1032:22 1033:18 1033:25 1034:9,11 1035:22,24 1038:7 1038:22 1039:25 1040:9 knowledge 893:18 920:13 1028:5 1034:3,5 known 881:23,24 917:7,8 knows 766:16,17 971:24 knuckles 1009:19 kohler 1054:17 konigsberg 751:2 1040:22,25 krause 908:11 916:8,15 1032:4 1032:24 1055:16 kslaw.com 752:23 ________ 1________ 1 747:6 748:6 749:5 877:20 1012:4 1054:14 lab 800:8 802:9,15 802:15,16,23 803:2,6,7,15 820:6 836:16,17,17 labeled 839:9 labels 903:2 laboratories 773:6 777:21 786:24 789:10 791:5 795:1,23 803:23 826:2 923:20 laboratory 777:23 786:5 788:3 794:22 802:21 803:1,1 806:21 826:9,11 921:7 923:7 932:13 laboratory's 802:11,11,20 labs 788:9 793:9 793:12 802:9 803:15 812:25 818:19 924:3 labware 826:16,17 826:18 lack 951:6 959:7 964:15 974:17 979:8 laid 872:5 873:5 1036:10 lakeysha 752:12 752:14 langer 770:15 785:13 922:5 925:17 926:4 1031:24 1032:10 1033:9,14,15,19 1033:21 1055:17 language 956:4,14 982:3,17 languages 1022:18 1022:19 1027:23 1028:5 lanzo 751:6 1028:16 1040:22 1040:24 large 817:7 957:25 larger 766:6 largest 786:9 laryngeal 995:21 larynx 989:19,23 990:19 994:13 1001:9,20 1005:8 1006:8 lastly 959:9,20 1031:11 1034:12 late 811:4 837:13 843:5 844:24 845:12 848:1,15 849:8 865:7 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [late-Up] Page 33 877:16 1035:8 laterra 751:3 1040:20,21 latest 773:17 laurent 751:17 law 747:1 748:1 749:1 law.com 752:14 lawsuit 972:13 layout 841:8 layup 829:6 ldno 1030:18 1055:13 lead 807:7 909:18 909:25 leading 830:24 882:4 923:22 leah 750:4 learn 924:7 943:20 946:25 learning 985:11 learns 771:24 leave 790:2 791:8 955:11 led 883:17 lee 798:12 806:3 820:21,24 821:19 822:4 823:18 824:4 825:24 870:10 871:2 872:6,8 873:6,19 960:5 967:12 969:14 973:22 983:22 1008:20 1018:7 1044:15 1046:201047:16 1052:9,15,19 1053:14 1054:8,24 leery 771:18 left 869:22 legend 793:18 lemar 929:16 length 801:17 905:22 lesser 1001:24 letter 762:4,19,22 763:14 764:14 792:17 794:18 800:21,25 889:4 912:18 914:13 916:4 925:5 926:5 942:5,19 943:14 946:12 950:3,12 960:6 963:22 964:25 975:21 980:16 983:24 984:3 985:16 1044:12,15 1045:7 1045:12,15 1046:3 1046:9,12,20 1047:12,18 1049:12,21 1051:18,22 1053:7 1053:10,17 1054:12 1055:6,10 1055:16 letterhead 789:2 798:5 815:18 883:8 986:1 letters 866:18 867:6 965:6 1009:20 level 783:3,5 793:21 795:2 802:24 854:11,12 876:12 879:5 884:9,19,19,25 885:3,18 930:4 1008:6 levels 765:5 876:24 884:22 885:14,23 levied 786:11 915:12 levy 751:2 1040:22 1040:24 levylaw.com 751:5 751:6 lewin 927:4,10,12 927:14 929:4 1050:19 lewin's 786:11 liberty 980:3 981:18 library 959:13 life 885:8 lifetime 885:5,5,22 Ught 808:21 870:19 915:10 liked 809:25 Ukewise 828:17 limelight 920:12 Umit 817:2 818:24 820:8 863:24 864:2,4 872:17 1007:17,20 1047:13 Umited 945:6 1022:20 1042:18 Umits 819:8 832:2 832:3,8 833:4 871:13 873:4,17 875:7,11,15 linda 753:24 Une 915:21 942:18 976:23 982:22 994:13 1011:25 1058:5 Unes 778:12 Uquid 816:18 Ust 787:12 790:25 861:10,21 862:7 866:5,8 883:12,21 900:14,16 986:22 1016:3 listed 792:15 841:17 842:11 862:5 898:7 941:12 957:12 973:17 994:3,7,8 997:8,15,17 1056:5 Usten 1006:9 listing 879:10 1029:12 Usts 787:2 792:1,5 967:24 973:14 994:10 literally 793:22 850:10 933:6 976:19,19 Uterature 782:24 881:17 882:2 894:2 1008:24 1010:15 1054:10 litigation 797:5 little 766:10,12 767:22 768:24 793:18 838:13 869:5 875:23 876:9 890:13 919:14 945:18 953:22 975:11 1001:23 1003:11 1014:2,20 Uve 877:12 lkagan 750:6 11c 752:17 Up 746:16 750:8 750:13,18 751:2,8 751:13 752:2,20 753:2,6.11 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [local - mark] Page 34 local 1021:20 lodged 1043:5 lodging 1043:1 london 746:17 long 812:3 822:5 869:16 894:16 897:20 1042:6 longer 845:24 longo 750:18 look 761:17 762:13 766:15 775:6 780:16,18 781:22 782:1 812:17 815:25 820:1 834:9 837:22 838:23 841:14,14 847:16 847:22 850:16 853:22 858:6,11 863:1 865:4 866:8 876:21 885:20 888:19,22 893:7 893:24 910:10 912:21915:3 927:21 932:9 940:8 942:16 953:5 960:16 961:4 965:14 974:20 985:25 986:17 989:19 997:11 998:1,23 999:16 1002:19 1005:3,24 1006:21 1008:5 1010:23 1011:15 looked 754:23 780:8 784:14 799:6 800:7 816:21 849:4 850:10 904:10 905:10 917:22 922:5 945:12 998:2 1021:4 looking 756:4 768:15 780:9 786:16 816:7 819:25 842:14 843:3 846:15 930:1,3 932:13 944:1 947:11,17 964:23 988:10 1010:6 looks 769:6 775:1 776:8 779:22 780:16 794:17 808:22 829:12 836:16 850:15 858:12 888:8 898:25 942:17 957:5 984:16 990:25 993:21 1007:13 los 746:1 751:15 751:20 752:22 753:8 lose 802:22 877:12 loss 813:22 lost 771:1 1042:5 lot 774:4 777:24 778:13 780:5 859:12,14 867:8 875:10 881:16 926:1 940:10 974:11 1019:16 1027:4 1037:10,14 lots 933:13 973:6 1030:23 1037:8 low 757:19,19,19 757:19,19,20,20 757:20 819:4 890:25 964:19 1016:11 1017:11 1017:17 1039:5 lower 776:2 783:3 783:5 875:10,11 885:14 lunch 886:5 1021:18 1022:2 lung 885:8 988:22 988:25 991:15 992:16,17 993:16 999:1,5,14 1000:9 1003:14,17,20 1004:19 1005:4,14 lungs 1003:18 luster 883:15 luzenac 867:24 1011:23,24,25 1013:13 1048:9,18 1054:13________ _______ m_______ m 751:19 927:6 machine 1010:2 1010:23 1057:7 machines 771:11 macroscopic 850:6,8 mad 893:16 895:11 1020:6 magic 787:18 magnesium 922:20,21 magnitude 960:18 mails 878:14 maimon 751:3 main 750:9 755:6 771:5 1004:14 maintain 773:18 1042:1,4 major 798:24 806:20 825:23,23 majority 858:17 914:1 making 828:18 914:16 957:11 1043:1 malevolent 954:7 malicious 960:20 malignant 988:14 988:18 993:16 malik 752:2 man 816:4,5 manager 827:17 managing 896:2 mancuso 902:5 909:2,5,8,15 916:1 932:16 mann 878:10 mansfield 751:19 manufactured 786:8,13 809:5 849:15,24 manufacturing 820:20 835:9,10 835:25 845:10,11 849:18,19 852:24 852:25 853:2 869:6 923:22 951:6 1047:15 manuscript 960:6 960:8,9 961:5,8 962:13 970:10 976:7 977:1,18 978:6 981:5 983:6 1052:10 manville 928:2,14 929:14 marc 750:18 march 776:7 788:20 820:17 821:19 856:16 960:4 985:6,16 m ark 927:6 1043:10 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [marked - meeting] Page 35 marked 755:3 756:8 7.59:22 767:18 769:4,24 772:20 775:20 779:4 780:14 785:20 788:16 794:15 798:3 806:1 810:6 814:24 818:1 820:15 827:16 830:17 833:12 841:2 853:4 857:19 867:22 869:11 878:7 883:5 886:11 888:21 896:24 899:5 901:19 904:25 907:16 916:18 926:22 930:11 933:20 936:15 939:7 943:13 950:11 954:10 960:3 962:24 967:8 969:12 973:8 975:19 980:14 983:20 985:2 993:1,10 1006:20 1008:15 1011:20 1012:22 1014:5 1018:1,21 1024:19 1026:4 1028:21 1031:9 m arker 948:1 m arket 786:9 809:16 855:5 970:18 1019:21 1025:2 marks 779:7 1045:15 marshall 779:11 1045:15 m artin 748:3 massive 831:8 832:18 833:5 masterful 1009:20 matches 978:3 material 768:8 783:14 833:20,23 834:3,20 867:24 871:4,4 893:19 894:4 896:5 913:25 1048:18 materially 920:15 materials 755:18 756:15 832:7 872:10 1048:5 1049:3 math 873:22 874:13 1038:20 1039:21,22,23 mathematician 1004:5,7 mathieu 939:13 941:4 970:3 971:4 984:20 1020:22 1035:19 1051:23 1055:7 maths 1039:19 m atter 751:6 826:2 940:23 941:6 1019:17 matters 928:4 957:2 matthew 752:8 maximum 952:19 1023:22 1024:10 maynard 908:12 916:12 mccarthy 869:13 1048:23 mccracken 753:2 mccrone 765:22 766:16,17 767:12 775:4,5,15 787:2 790:6,7 798:13 801:8 805:16,22 807:24 808:1,12 818:3,4,23 819:13 819:19 820:1 824:25 843:19 863:22,22 864:4 913:10,12 927:13 927:15 1047:12 mccrone's 819:8 mckinney 750:4 mean 789:13 800:21 821:15 827:2,6 829:5 836:11 848:18 860:9 861:3 866:25 880:21 886:21 887:22 903:18 907:5 913:9 915:18 918:11,17 924:18 929:1,7 932:14 933:8 938:25 939:2 940:4 947:22 966:16 979:5 1000:14 1030:6,7,15,17 1031:1 1035:24 meaning 776:17 803:2,4 813:11 839:6 890:21 961:10 967:20 1030:9 meanings 933:8 933:14 939:4 977:25 means 773:8 783:5 811:14 815:7 850:10 928:20 942:7 952:10 954:4 961:15,17 970:25,25 971:1 986:9 1001:2 1022:8,13 1027:23 1028:22 1029:1,14 1030:19 meant 846:1,12 897:4,5,6 measure 841:20 measures 821:14 mechanisms 926:15 medical 827:17 881:16 882:2 887:14 888:9 895:16 897:23 937:23 940:24 941:16 medically 941:10 medicated 787:16 863:20 867:4 927:17,19,23 medicine 934:1 960:9 961:7,20 962:3,5,15 964:20 970:9 973:12 977:15 978:4,8 medicines 936:22 medium 757:20 meet 845:6 856:14 892:16 934:7 962:17 1041:15,19 1042:18,20 meeting 770:2,12 771:23 797:9 798:11,20 807:12 807:19 808:20 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [meeting - million] Page 36 812:24 831:1 853:10 886:18 905:24 933:24 936:20 937:1,4,5 937:14,15 944:6 944:22 945:4,5,19 946:5 949:10 954:16,18 965:12 965:22 967:15 969:16,22 970:11 974:11976:8,9,12 976:14 977:2,18 980:1,23 981:5,14 981:25 986:11 1027:4,5 1045:5 1049:13 1050:11 1052:13 meetings 859:20 1054:18 member 788:2 memo 769:6,25 770:2,3 778:17,18 835:14 862:19,20 862:22 864:12,20 886:16 898:9 907:17,18 922:7,9 937:18 986:1 1044:9 1045:3 1048:3 1049:9,16 1050:7,10,17,21 1051:3,7,12 1052:3,8,12,15,19 1053:13 1054:8,16 1054:23 memorandum 801:16,21 memorialize 1041:2 memory 991:21 1034:24 men 906:21 1033:8 mennen 787:18 790:6 808:13 mention 914:8 916:1 956:22 1017:1,3 mentioned 770:14 844:24 849:22 898:12 975:7 998:3 mentioning 854:18 merits 1021:19 mesothelioma 881:6,8,12,15,17 881:20,24 882:1,5 882:16,24 met 827:20 895:4 935:20 962:14 963:13,19 969:19 974:13 metal 959:22 method 775:24 776:2 777:16 780:9 781:2,7,8,15 782:14,15,16,18 782:21,23 783:22 786:21 789:21 793:19 795:1 799:10,16,17 801:7 804:2,7,8,18 804:21,22 805:15 807:22,23 809:10 815:6,17,20 816:21 818:14,18 819:7,16,19,23 820:2 823:17,19 823:19,23,25 824:6,7,12,16,17 824:18,24 825:7,8 831:4 834:13 839:2 844:14,17 844:20 848:11 930:4 1007:5,14 1009:10,15 1010:8 1011:15 1047:8 1054:3 methodology 781:24 782:1 784:20 855:20 968:4 methods 782:24 783:17 799:7 820:9 823:7 847:11,14 962:9 mgaffrey 750:20 mgroseclose 751:21 mica 958:1 michigan 909:12 909:13 microbial 813:19 microbiology 773:10 microgram 783:15 microinclusions 975:10 microprobe 783:2 microscope 772:23 774:14 826:5 843:20 847:17 850:7 894:3,17 902:9 903:23 921:19 1045:9 microscopes 771:25 microscopic 844:25 852:13 912:20 913:5 microscopists 801:8 microscopy 771:7 773:4 782:13 783:1 784:22 815:9 818:17 839:20 843:18 847:15,16 864:3 870:12,19 872:7 923:18 mid 747:6 748:6 749:5 841:7 856:16 1036:7 mid50s 810:22 middle 999:17 middlesex 747:1 748:1 749:1 midland 909:14 migration 893:13 893:25,25 milan 959:13 1023:6 mill 755:19 756:15 841:7 958:19 1048:10 miller 755:5 896:2 1044:9 millers 943:22 944:11,23 946:6,9 947:2 949:11 957:21 958:18,19 964:3 968:17 971:12 984:4 987:8 989:9 990:9 990:15,21 992:6 993:4 994:20 997:22 998:18 1005:11 1053:4,21 million 760:10,14 762:7 767:9 872:10 873:19 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [million - months] Page 37 874:14,22 883:24 884:9,12 885:24 886:2 1030:6,19 1030:21 1031:1 1039:13,17 millions 1031:1 mills 975:6 mind 901:15 961:7 mine 779:1,13 780:1 837:22 868:16,18,18,19 868:19 869:2,2 933:23 934:3 936:25 937:22,24 943:22 947:2 952:7 973:2 979:17 984:5,10 985:8 1021:3 1025:17 1036:22 1036:24 1051:5 mined 981:17 1016:8 1017:14 mineral 747:9 748:9 749:8 866:13,14 890:8 902:10 903:7 913:23 956:24 957:2,18 958:19 958:21 1007:22 1037:19 mineralization 959:5 mineralogical 956:20 957:15,20 1025:16 mineralogist 1023:5 minerals 751:11 753:10 755:7 773:18 779:13 781:16 782:8,22 786:22 787:10 788:5 789:12 794:7 839:12,25 845:15 846:8,13 846:18 852:18 866:23 867:14 903:24 906:2 908:4 910:17 912:21913:1,6 914:17 929:17 1007:10 1037:10 1044:10 1046:18 1047:9 1054:4 miners 898:23 928:10 931:18 934:3,17 936:25 944:11,23 946:6,8 947:13 949:11 957:19,22,24 958:3 964:3 985:18 987:7 988:13,23 989:22 990:20,20,21 992:5 993:3 994:20 997:22 998:18 1001:9 1003:3 1005:4 1051:10 1053:4,21 mines 770:2,12 827:7 862:19 868:13,22,23 896:21 905:21,24 906:6,16 907:6,19 908:13,17 909:23 911:12912:2 914:8,20 915:25 916:9 924:24,24 931:1 932:15 966:23 1023:7,8 1031:10,17 1032:5 1034:7 1045:4 1050:10,24 minimum 813:13 mining 755:9,10 934:15 951:22 957:18 969:24 minor 931:5 minus 800:18 minute 837:25 899:7 945:9,15 947:24 948:3,5,11 970:5 minutes 798:7 945:7 948:9 1046:15 1047:21 misgivings 892:10 892:19,23,24 894:10 895:5 misinterpretation 929:17 misinterpreted 972:23 misleading 1032:20 1033:3 misrepresenting 861:16 missed 948:3 missing 813:5 814:17 823:6 mississippi 752:13 mistranslation 1028:1 misunderstanding 974:7 misunderstandin... 964:10 misunderstood 977:4 misuse 918:18 mith 928:12 mix 848:12 mmaimon 751:5 mmm 754:15 755:1 760:25 803:21 819:22 843:24 867:1 1010:13 1043:17 mmwr.com 753:4 modern 981:17 modifications 831:3 moment 764:16 monaco 897:18 1053:11,18 monday 932:2 money 772:10 886:21 887:19 888:3 939:14,16 940:5,15,16,23 monikers 757:13 monitor 938:8,13 938:14,15,25,25 monitoring 856:18 927:9 938:16 940:7 monkeys 892:7 894:12 monograph 829:12 montana 1023:7 monte 1053:11,18 montgomery 753:2 month 788:17 812:24 834:20 934:16 937:25 1013:17,17 month's 1012:11 monthly 834:16 months 772:22 788:17 792:17 803:13 1008:17 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [months - note] Page 38 1019:23 montreal 1054:19 moran 750:18 morbidity 968:17 970:23,25 971:1 984:4,9,17 985:8 985:18 987:7 993:3 996:24 1053:3,20 morning 754:9,10 784:12,14 844:25 865:5 917:23 m ort 1046:15 mortality 970:10 970:25 972:7 987:7 993:3 996:23 1000:15,18 1000:19 1053:3,20 moshe 751:3 mother 763:21 764:13 765:5,10 motion 1042:8 mount 787:2 790:1 806:18 926:8 1033:9 move 928:18 moved 848:9 moving 774:13 924:7 928:12 mquirin 752:10 mrc 886:19 887:13 887:18 888:16 895:17,21 896:1 931:13 mt 770:15 786:5 788:3 806:21 909:13 mullen 967:12,14 1052:15 mulling 898:22 multiply 1038:23 1039:8 muscovite 890:3 958:1 mute 1029:9 myers 751:17 myth 1009:21 1011:1________ n n 750:1 751:1 752:1 753:1,12 1044:1 n.w. 752:3 nader 770:16,18 770:20 name 769:12,14 849:22 888:24 898:17 909:6 976:2 1038:7 1056:12 1057:20 1058:3,4 named 896:16 921:3 names 757:14 1011:25 nashed 768:17 769:25 916:23 1044:12 1045:3 national 879:9 natural 884:15 972:6 nature 952:8 966:13 near 773:23 necessarily 822:7 880:17 884:7 892:18 903:18 923:25 924:2 1035:25 1036:15 necessary 797:11 986:12,25 988:7 991:12 1021:11 need 762:2 779:19 780:19 796:19 811:18 813:15 824:22 853:1 857:8 858:24 859:3 870:25 885:20 918:5 939:13 942:11 947:18 958:17 959:6 970:17 972:8 982:8 986:23 1005:24 1040:6 needed 807:23 829:18 966:11 1024:1 needle 847:5 850:20 needles 811:6,8,11 needless 773:23 needs 826:17 958:20 nefarious 954:6 negative 803:7 890:11,20,24 891:4,7 966:13 972:23 negatives 973:1 neither 928:1 939:24 973:20 981:16 994:5 1003:14 neoplasm 988:18 neoplasms 988:14 never 827:20 857:5 860:19 881:12 882:6,9 886:12 891:18 958:18 962:22 1020:16 1034:3 nevertheless 998:15 new 747:1 748:1 749:1 750:19,19 751:4 752:9,9 753:13 769:12,14 889:4 919:6,12 923:22 926:5 976:11 1012:18 1019:12 nice 860:18 979:25 nine 757:17 762:14,21,24 765:25 903:9 niosh 807:5 nj 751:12 nmt 870:11 non 862:21 881:17 882:5 897:19 914:2 958:10 981:12 986:13,13 987:1,2 988:8,8 991:13,14 992:1 993:16 noonan 752:3 norm 789:7 1008:20,25 normal 784:24 820:10 885:21 normally 813:13 926:19 north 747:7 748:7 749:6 849:16 1016:9 1017:15 norwood 770:10 notary 1058:21,24 notation 864:19 note 825:18 838:20,22 897:21 931:2 1009:13 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [noted - okay] Page 39 noted 825:15 826:22 notes 823:9 838:23 notice 927:7 november 759:20 933:24 965:23 969:13 976:2 980:15 1008:16 1026:7,13 1052:13 1052:21 1055:11 nowadays 880:25 ntp 879:8 880:9 number 759:21 779:8 788:9 792:8 793:11,23 799:15 817:19,21 822:25 823:6,16 834:22 900:3 910:11,12 910:20 916:21 917:19 975:9 987:21 1012:8 1014:16 1022:20 1035:2 1038:1,15 1039:5 1040:13 1041:10,14 1043:16 numbered 853:25 870:6,7 1056:3 numbers 839:9 875:25 995:24 998:9 1003:7,9 1004:2,11,23 1038:6 1040:8 numerically 997:17 numerous 777:17 798:13 853:18 ny 751:4 0 objection 1043:5 objections 1043:2 1043:3 objective 1020:15 1024:23 1032:24 objectives 798:22 799:23 804:17 obscure 904:6 obscured 766:7 observation 822:17,21,21 823:13 825:22 observed 826:2 988:23 995:8 999-22 1001*13 1004:2,2,21,21 1005:4 obstetrics 890:14 obtain 855:22 897-18 obtained 934:4 943*21 947*1 959:10 981:13 985:21 1023:25 obundy 751:16 obvious 962:12 obviously 774:3,5 774:12 777:25 876:21 892:23 907:10 939:18 941:10,11,15 1018:11 1033:1 occasions 766:2 occupation 962:4 973*12 occupational 954:20 960:9 961:7,20 962:3,14 964:20 970:9 977:14 978:4,8 983:8 occur 845:7 1035:8 occurred 801:21 942:1 1020:16 occurrence 1036:4 1036:6 octillions 1038:7 October 756:7 785:22 858:4 927:4 930:25 931:2 933:1 954:12,18 1012:23 1024:21 1048:16 1055:8 odor 883:13 offer 924:9 953:22 offered 966:8 offering 982:11,12 1024:15 offers 784:23 office 853:7 official 970:8 officially 785:21 926:16 officials 951:22 1013:5,19 oh 769:2 837:20 837:25 905:25 915:2 977:4 1016:21 okay 754:20,25 755:12 756:1,20 756:24 757:5,15 757:23 758:11,15 758:20 759:13,18 759:23,24 760:4 760:17,24 761:1 761:18,25 763:8 763:17 764:17,21 764:24 765:8 766:14,18 768:1 768:11 769:22 770:7,23 771:22 772:8,13,17 773:16 774:23 775:2,3,14,18 776:11,20 777:2 777:11,13,19 778:7 780:4,13,23 781:6,18,25 782:6 783:11 784:2,4,10 784:17 785:17 786:2,20 787:22 788:13 789:4,16 789:19 790:2,23 791:7,21,24 792:11,19 793:2,4 793:14,16,17 794:1,12,20 795:6 796:6,21,24 797:3 797:7,18,21 798:4 798:16 799:14 800:16,21,24 801:3,13 802:5 803:10,18 804:6 804:12 805:6,11 805:13,24 806:14 806:25 807:11 808:4,10,11,14,16 808:17,25 809:13 810:24 811:7,12 811:20 812:6,16 813:9 814:4,11,18 814:19 815:1,19 816:10 817:5,9,14 817:17,25,25 818:11,22 819:3,6 819:11,17 820:4 820:11,13 821:2 821:11,18,25 822:10 823:5 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [okay - opinion] Page 40 824:10,21 825:3 825:21 826:8,14 827:13,14,21 828:23 829:22 830:21 832:13 833:2,11,16 834:8 834:19 835:2,8 836:1,5,9,15,24,24 837:10,16 838:11 839:18 840:6,11 840:19,24 841:5 841:12 842:4,10 843:1,14 845:21 846:11,16 847:8 847:14 848:9 849:1,6,21 850:12 850:13,18 851:2 851:12,18 852:16 853:3,14,19,21 854:20 855:10,18 856:23 857:1,17 860:25 861:3,17 861:18,22,23 862:4,16,25 863:6 863:8,15,18 864:7 864:10,17,22 865:12,18,20 866:1,9,17 867:24 868:4,25 869:8,16 869:21 870:8,24 872:25 873:8 874:12,24 875:10 875:13,18 876:23 878:5 879:2,15,19 881:3,8,22 882:18 883:1,3,9 884:4,6 884:14,18 885:2 885:15 887:11,15 888:11,15 889:7 890:1,18 892:3 893:3 895:15,19 896:10,15,19,22 897:3,16 898:7,11 898:21,25 899:7 899:22 900:1,13 900:18,21 902:2 902:16 903:20 904:2,14,18,20,24 905:4 906:19 907:9,23 909:11 909:23 910:3,8,19 911:16 912:3,8,19 913:18,21 915:7 915:17,20 916:5,7 916:13,13 917:2 917:17 918:6,8,16 918:23 919:3,21 920:18,23 921:1,8 921:9,11 922:10 922:12,24 924:20 925:6,16 926:3,13 926:20 927:21 928:16 929:3,13 929:21 930:7,19 930:23 932:6 933:12,16,18 934:12 935:13,17 935:18 936:12,19 937:9,21 938:5,20 939:22 940:17,19 941:17 942:10,24 943:11944:3 946:3,13 948:14 950:2,6 951:13 952:2,3,12 953:6 953:12,18,25 955:2,16 956:19 957:14 959:19 960:1961:3 964:22 965:4,11 965:25 966:18 967:5,23 969:1,5 969:10 971:3,9 972:2,19 973:5 974:19,25 975:3 975:17 976:1,1 978:20,23 979:12 980:12 982:16 983:1,19 984:15 984:25 985:4,10 985:24 986:18,19 987:4,20,23 988:4 989:5,12,16,18,20 990:8,18 991:4,8 992:12,20,24 993:8,12 995:20 997:20,25 998:14 999:9,25 1000:5 1000:11,13,23 1002:6,18,20 1003:24 1005:21 1006:10,13,19,23 1006:24 1007:5,24 1008:3,8 1009:12 1010:101011:18 1012:3,16,20,23 1012:23 1013:2 1014:1,7,18,20 1015:7,14,16,19 1016:22 1018:15 1018:22,23 1020:19 1022:3,12 1022:15,24,25 1023:18 1024:16 1025:20 1026:2,10 1027:9,19 1028:8 1028:19,25 1029:21 1030:20 1031:4,19 1032:3 1033:4,13,17 1034:2,6,14 1035:4,7,20 1036:9 1037:1,7 1037:17,18 1038:10,15,21 1039:4,7,9,24 1040:16,23 1041:22 olcott 1054:17 old 746:16 Oliver 751:9,14 omitted 995:21 1006:15 once 836:11 839:6 914:19 937:25 988:1 one's 768:8,9 792:12 825:23 841:13 985:4 ones 811:3 855:12 855:13 891:10 916:22 1003:11 ongoing 880:22 online 779:6 865:7 onwards 848:1,1 open 860:2 opened 798:20 831:1 opening 972:21 operated 806:22 operation 852:22 852:24,25 957:19 operations 849:18 869:6 975:7 1019:6 opinion 807:4 808:24 881:20 897:24 929:11 931:9 945:18 960:24 961:5 967:2 971:11,21 975:23 976:9 1031:18 1032:18 1033:5 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [opinions - panatier] Page 41 opinions 970:6 973:6 1031:20 opportunity 862:14 898:1 899:11 955:19 956:6 976:6,25 981:3 opposed 879:12 880:11 890:14 959:1 970:20 972:21991:2 optical 782:13 783:9 839:2 847:15,16 848:5,8 871:24 optimal 823:19 824:6,25 optimum 934:22 936:7,10 option 804:24 orchestrate 953:9 953:14 954:4 orchestrating 900:19 order 792:2 845:6 890:13 940:3 952:19 953:1 962:10 976:16 977:7,19 1025:10 ordered 1021:17 ordinating 796:4 ordinator 795:19 797:2 ore 755:10 757:25 758:13 759:5 762:25 773:19 863:11 868:17 870:4,9,11 871:3,4 871:12 872:9 873:3 874:3,8 886:24 913:1 958:22 ores 755:19 758:8 organization 828:3,5,8 1012:10 1013:15 organizations 828:10 880:10,16 organize 901:2 954:1,4 organized 1023:10 organizer 795:25 organizing 954:1 origin 956:24 original 864:18,19 921:14 925:12 955:25 982:21 1042:1,4,5 originally 941:1 originate 931:6,24 933:2 942:3 originated 963:4 orrick 752:2 orrick.com 752:5 752:5 osha 801:15,21 802:1,3 807:5 875:14 ounce 1038:2 1040:3 outcome 859:21 895:8 901:14 907:10 942:7 946:20 1057:16 outfit 755:9 outline 952:16 outside 773:6,12 774:5 783:23 802:9 803:23 818:19 820:6 881:25 882:15,20 885:2 ovarian 878:21 879:4 880:3,23 ovaries 880:2 922:1 ovary 921:15 overall 809:18 811:25 825:25 952:17,21 972:23 978:25 979:2 overlooked 906:23 907:11 oversee 952:21 overshadowed 966:22 owder 927:6 owned 846:12 owner 937:24 1019:5 1021:3 owner's 973:2 ________ P_______ p 750:1,1 751:1,1 752:1,1 753:1,1 927:6 1002:6,12 1002:23 1004:5,8 1005:18,23 pl-2657980 1058:2 pacific 746:6 packets 985:4 page 755:5 757:10 758:22 767:7 780:16,17 785:11 787:5 792:1 802:6 806:19 807:1 809:13 812:18 813:16,18 816:12 816:13,14 822:17 825:4,22 834:9 838:12 841:5,14 854:1 855:21,25 858:6 868:2,7,8 869:25 870:1,4 871:7,16 872:5 873:9 874:18 892:3 903:6,22 908:21 910:10,20 911:17 917:3 918:22 919:22,24 920:8,19,21 922:13 932:8 938:6 941:20 942:17 949:17 955:16 956:21 957:9 964:9 966:1 966:2 970:15 985:25 987:21 991:5 993:9 998:23 999:16 1007:21 1013:3 1014:14 1015:8,19 1016:5,15 1017:10 1020:18 1021:10 1044:2,8 1045:2 1046:2 1047:2 1048:2 1049:2 1050:2 1051:2 1052:2 1053:2 1054:2 1055:2 1056:5 1058:5 pages 780:18 813:13 833:14 841:6 853:24 854:21 856:1 870:6 958:24 988:1 1043:12 1056:3 paid 963:1 palenik 1047:12 palmolive 790:6 791:9,13 panatier 750:3,3 754:7 768:14,19 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [panatier - people] Page 42 768:22 769:2 797:23 798:1 814:22 817:20,23 817:25 830:13,15 837:18,20,22 838:3,5 886:6,9 900:24 901:1 930:14,20 937:13 942:15 965:21 996:8 1004:18 1006:24 1007:1 1014:17,19 1028:15 1040:16 1040:23 1041:6,17 1041:22 1042:11 1043:7,17 1044:4 paoletti 1012:4 1013:9,14,19 1054:14 paper 785:12 819:18 890:12 891:10 904:4,22 906:15 907:3,25 908:25 909:4,15 909:18,25 910:5 911:2,20 914:11 921:14 922:17 924:15,19,24,24 924:25 925:2,4,10 925:18 928:10 944:19 950:8 951:25 957:3,6 959:16 960:13 962:1 964:24,24 976:20 977:11,13 977:21 978:9 979:20 980:1,5 981:11,14,20 983:7 985:4 987:5 987:9 991:20 993:2,6 994:23 995:10 996:24,24 998:1999:14,16 1004:14,20,20 1012:5,6,18 1024:12,14 1031:22,25 1032:9 1032:13,16,18,19 1033:11,14,15,19 1034:3 1036:19 papers 968:20 paperwork 769:16 paragenetic 957:1 paragraph 766:1 770:8 784:19 786:3 801:4,14 892:22 919:5 934:13 952:4 975:4 999:17 paragraphs 925:8 925:8 pardon 1001:16 parentheses 756:25 park 753:13 parnell 751:13 p art 760:9 782:16 793:19,23 794:10 801:6 808:1 844:8 845:15,17,24 846:8 859:24 939:21 953:8 963:2 979:2 989:13 1010:12 1027:16 1042:20 1043:3,10,13 partial 801:6 940:24 941:5 partially 1014:8,9 participant 802:8 participants 794:18 798:20 1046:13 participate 786:6 790:2 806:18 participating 786:24 789:9 particle 921:19 particles 762:7 766:3,4,8 847:6,7 850:21 862:21 893:8,14,18,21 894:15,17,18,25 921:16 922:18,19 1030:25 1038:1,16 1038:18 1039:16 1040:1,2,2,6 particular 762:19 792:17 809:6,6,7,9 809:10,12 819:15 873:25 932:17 971:8 992:4 1004:10 1014:13 particularly 882:5 890:11 923:17 particulate 826:2 parties 805:16 1041:25 1042:5,7 1042:24 1057:14 1057:15 partly 986:10 partner 1041:6 parts 760:14 762:6 767:9 782:10 789:21 795:1 872:10 873:19 874:14,22 881:11 882:8 883:23 884:8,11,12 885:24 886:1 1030:6,19,21,25 party 1043:3 pass 800:25 passed 780:11 781:8 782:1,17 passing 781:10 pastore 747:4 patent 776:15,17 776:23 778:22 patents 776:14 777:6 778:14 1045:13 paterson 750:19 pattern 890:7 921:17,21 pause 937:9 pay 940:7 941:9 984:21,22 paying 935:22 969:7 payment 939:21 939:25 940:2 pc 750:3 peek 762:12 837:23 1000:11,24 1002:4,20 peer 910:5 977:14 977:19,21,22,24 978:5,6,12,17 Pennsylvania 751:10 753:3 people 766:10 769:7 770:4 774:13 779:8 798:14 802:14 804:19 807:14,19 807:23 845:9 853:2 860:10 861:2 877:12 880:13 881:1,2,11 882:9 891:21 898:8 900:10 906:14 908:10,17 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [people - pointed] Page 43 909:17,24 912:5 916:21 918:18 923:24 929:16 951:20 952:7 965:14 978:9 1005:4,6 1013:23 percentage 800:11 903:3 1030:7 percentages 864:14 913:17 914:9 performed 834:3 perineal 879:21 period 775:22 845:7 852:5 969:7 periodic 851:7 856:18 1034:13,15 permissible 875:14 permission 1020:12 perpetuating 1009:21 1011:1 person 765:15,16 944:20 personal 952:24 959:1 1018:22 1019:11 1055:3 personally 948:7 1036:10 perspective 1048:12 pete 931:2 petrographic 902:8 petterson 905:1 930:23 933:22 1046:3 1050:7,21 1051:4,8 pfeiffer 902:5 908:24 909:14,17 pfizer 770:2,10 771:11,24 772:14 1045:5 pfizer's 771:23 ph 813:21 pharmaceutic 1015:4,17 pharmaceutical 828:22 830:1 pharmacology 1012:11 pharmacopeia 870:20 872:4 pharmacopeial 827:24 pharmacopoeia 828:12 1014:23 pharmacopoeias 1015:1 Philadelphia 753:3 phone 770:11 937:9 947:8 1029:9,10 photocopy 780:20 photographs 1043:12 phrase 956:23 physical 755:10 pick 919:15 picked 845:2 866:25 picking 1039:5 picture 847:4 859:16 889:19 1026:24 pieces 1019:13 pigment 747:9 748:9 749:8 pinerolo 897:12 1015:4 1049:19 1051:15 pink 927:7 pinorolo 936:25 1015:16 1016:7 1017:7,13 piolatto 973:15 pitfalls 929:18 Pittsburgh 751:10 place 762:3 994:8 1019:20 1035:6 1042:20 placed 801:17 829:15 984:2 993:21 1037:10 plaintiff 749:4 1042:25 plaintiffs 746:4 747:5 748:5 750:2 751:6 1041:5 1042:3 1043:9 plan 941:2 951:23 planning 892:13 plans 951:16 plants 849:19 884:15 platinum 890:6 921:19 923:19 platy 771:6,8,8 plausibility 1005:25 play 875:23 886:22 887:22 888:2 played 876:8,9 player 829:6 playing 900:18 959:15 960:12,15 pleasant 909:13 please 806:19 822:16 892:3 903:22 908:21 919:22 948:2 974:14 987:16,22 993:9 999:16 1006:18 1015:15 1029:10 1031:6 pleased 899:11 906:20 943:19 946:24 976:6,25 981:3 plenty 887:20 901:13 plessey 921:3 923:20 924:3 pile 752:7 plus 772:23 773:21 1045:10 pm 886:7,8 937:11 937:12 942:13,14 996:6,7 1028:13 1028:14 1040:18 1040:19 1043:20 pneumoconiosis 993:17,18 999:21 po 750:19 point 774:2 782:3 782:4 804:15,16 804:19 809:23 812:4 823:8 845:13 848:4,5,10 855:4 858:25 871:10 873:11 884:20 913:22 914:4 923:5,25 924:3 931:14 954:23 962:25 963:1 977:5 1008:4 1010:15 1018:16 1025:12 1032:25 1033:8 pointed 771:9 892:10 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [points - presented] Page 44 points 948:12,16 974:3 polarised 870:19 polaski 751:8 policy 831:18 852:3 1040:13 pond's 790:5 pooley 775:23 776:14 777:15 778:3,8 886:18 890:5 895:23 896:5 918:15 919:6 968:24 pooley's 776:5 777:6 population 944:13 944:25 946:16 948:20 949:13,25 964:3 989:1 991:2 997:23 1001:13 1006:2 population's 949:21 Portsmouth 1029:25 posed 872:16,20 posit 992:14 position 858:23 880:6 889:14 898:1 952:21 1019:20 1041:13 positions 856:12 positive 803:6 827:9 866:11,23 871:23 906:1 971:22 972:24 1037:9,14 possession 795:8 795:13 796:14 1036:23 possibility 862:11 928:13 possible 776:21 801:12 802:18 853:13,15 900:14 909:21 910:23 911:3 913:25 915:13 929:17 931:4 952:16 975:10 986:7 1004:13 1022:6 1032:21 possibly 1038:9 post 1036:22 postpone 1043:1 postponed 928:5 postulating 948:13 potential 797:10 878:15 893:19 898:23 972:25 1049:4 pound 1034:25 powder 763:21,22 763:25 764:1,2,3,6 769:8 779:9,15,17 787:17,18,18,19 792:16 806:20 810:10 811:25 816:17 833:21 834:4 863:11,20 867:4 874:3,3 879:21 886:25 888:7,14 889:15 896:8 902:4 910:12,13 927:5 927:17,19,23 1038:2 1040:4,14 1044:17 1045:16 1048:6 powdering 873:12 873:15 powders 807:8 809:2,5 902:7,24 902:25,25 903:1,4 905:7 908:1,3 1032:1 1050:4 power 787:17 powerpoint 853:5 853:25 855:2 869:12,18 877:10 1048:13 powerpoints 877:8 ppm 870:11 873:18 ppt 1048:23 practical 771:10 784:21 799:18 804:4 1015:10 1025:3 practice 837:8 1042:8 pre 855:5 precaution 829:15 preceded 813:15 813:16 814:14 preceding 955:17 precise 801:9 precleared 896:7 predale 878:10 preference 809:18 preferred 809:25 prem arket 855:8 857:8 prep 942:11 preparation 816:18 828:22 921:17 981:4 preparations 920:1,4 951:3 prepare 1021:11 prepared 769:13 818:13 971:11 preparing 921:18 1019:9 1043:10 prepublication 987:12,18 992:21 994:19 997:4 1000:1 1004:25,25 1006:5,14 presence 810:20 870:10 903:3 969:22 975:14 1037:20 present 753:23 791:19 807:8,15 807:17 809:2 845:2 854:10,12 872:21 900:15 911:22 915:23 944:8 945:4,5 978:3 981:24 982:5 983:17 986:5 1014:21 1017:7 1043:2 1054:21 presentation 953:21 954:23 968:20 979:25 980:9 presentations 953:10,15 presented 784:20 784:24 806:8 859:9 899:17 901:6,9 909:18 911:20914:18 944:6,14,22 946:1 946:8 948:8,25 949:7 976:13 978:11 979:3 982:1 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [presently - proposition] Page 45 presently 809:4 909:12 971:15 president 1023:12 1023:21 press 927:8 pressed 911:20 presume 891:20 presuming 998:7 pretty 827:2 857:7 857:9 859:10,23 878:18 889:13 907:4 909:8 914:23 945:11 985:11 1026:8 prevailed 893:15 895:11 prevailing 807:7 prevent 802:8 previous 791:1,25 807:1 808:5 832:22 871:16 872:5 937:18 980:16 1016:15 previously 756:8 759:22 769:15 792:18 886:23 887:23 price 903:1 principal 895:24 principals 952:25 1021:12 printed 1031:8 prior 844:20 priority 1058:1 privy 777:20 probability 885:9 1001:23,24,25 probably 756:21 756:23 766:15 829:7 836:22 849:5,17 865:20 870:25 886:13 895:24 910:21 918:5 964:6 979:22 985:17 1011:7 1015:9 1038:6 problem 797:15 803:7 838:3 891:3 901:10 986:5 problems 807:8 808:24 procedure 771:10 826:15 proceed 940:2 1025:11 proceedings 955:21 976:15 980:1 981:15 1056:4 process 823:2 825:25 835:25 846:23 924:10 1035:1,6 processed 779:12 946:17 processing 868:17 Procter 752:16 procurement 934:21 936:7 produce 788:1 897:22 898:3 970:19 produced 755:18 779:12 797:4 1036:18 produces 1042:17 product 764:12,13 765:11,13 767:3 773:19 793:5,8,22 793:23 818:19 821:1 828:20,20 830:6 833:21,24 834:4 849:15,25 870:17 901:10 972:3 979:23 1016:101017:16 1048:5 production 755:20 758:9 779:14 786:17 791:3,10 793:9 798:24 839:9 865:14 productions 794:4 products 785:25 786:8 787:8,12,13 788:4 789:11 790:24,25 791:1,4 791:10 792:1,5 794:24 795:22 798:8,24 800:5 810:7 818:14 830:3 831:20 839:10 840:2 869:15 875:15 909:19 910:1 915:12 965:5 1008:23 1046:7,17 1054:9 prof 952:7 1051:19 1052:5,20 1053:8,15 professional 928:24 professor 886:18 933:25 934:14 936:21,24 938:1,8 939:13 943:15,18 951:2,21 953:9 960:7,17,25 975:20 981:4,11 981:19,24 983:22 984:3,7 program 806:8,12 879:9 892:7,20,21 892:24 893:3 895:6 918:19 952:17,21 programme 892:11 895:22 progress 785:23 889:11 938:9,18 939:15 1046:4 project 779:10 889:12 910:22 967:15 1052:17,22 projects 778:10 promise 857:15 1014:3 prom pt 976:10 prompted 1012:14 pronunciation 877:25 proof 773:4 proper 814:2 887:8 properties 812:19 868:16 property 898:14 proposal 805:1 proposed 801:5,15 857:13 879:9 880:9 882:4,12,14 892:11,19 896:7 970:17 984:10 1023:9,20 proposes 804:22 805:1 proposing 797:19 801:23 892:6 893:7,13 956:16 970:22 984:4 proposition 817:16 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [protocol - ralph] Page 46 protocol 820:12 842:22,22 851:21 893:1,2 894:22 925:22 934:18,19 935:1 936:2 986:16,20 988:5 prove 971:22 proven 902:19 provide 802:10 846:18 856:17 857:6 858:23 859:7 868:17 936:1 1031:17 provided 800:2 847:25 851:5 859:18 860:8 861:9,10,20,21 865:9,16 869:18 1043:13 providing 800:4 856:11 859:2,6,17 959:16 proving 890:22 951:5 1020:15 provision 801:18 proxy 811:6 893:25 894:3,18 public 1058:24 publication 955:17,20,23 956:7,11 960:8 963:14 964:19 1006:6,15 1019:1 1019:4 1021:4 1024:101025:1,2 1026:14 1032:18 1032:21 publicize 1019:24 publish 890:10,11 956:3,14 961:11 961:12 962:18 986:12 987:1 988:7 991:13 publishable 892:1 published 776:23 778:21 890:13 901:20 902:4,21 904:15 908:1 910:5 926:18 944:15 956:2,4 960:14 962:22 973:9 976:14 977:12,15 981:15 993:6 998:2 1012:9 1013:15 1031:25 1033:14 1033:16,20,23 publishes 928:9 944:20 pull 817:11 875:25 pulled 756:6 913:16 925:23 965:15 pulmonary 902:20 968:17 970:17 999:14 purchase 772:22 774:9 1045:8 purchased 774:21 purity 828:16 889:14 purpose 799:17 802:22 purposes 972:9 1042:7 push 1020:24 put 754:13 756:25 770:5 781:9 810:24 815:21 843:22 853:1,6 876:1 879:11 918:20 964:19 978:7 979:20 995:23 1019:19 1020:8,10 1027:24 1029:18 1039:1 puts 854:5 putting 947:16 1019:17________ _____ q_____ qualified 868:17 941:10 qualitative 903:7 quality 771:10 784:25 785:6,6 803:24 821:1 828:13,16 976:12 1016:10 1017:16 1033:2 quantity 945:12 quarter 821:22,23 840:15,20 842:7 842:16 quarterly 834:16 839:23 840:13 842:5 843:4,11 quarters 937:25 1021:15 quartz 958:1 1016:19,19,20 quasi 828:8,25 829:1,5 question 763:18 763:23 764:18,22 765:1 817:16 828:24 833:6 835:6 847:21,22 849:12 853:1 854:2 855:1 856:15 857:2 867:12,18 871:14 872:16,20 873:1 884:5 894:24 915:24 924:10 927:6 931:3 932:9 935:16 946:11 949:15 966:10,12 977:4 1006:9,10 1035:5 questionable 1004:11 questioned 966:19 questioning 1043:4 questions 837:23 854:1,6,17 855:15 856:25 931:5 932:2 1040:21 quick 775:10,15 861:4 942:11 996:5 quiet 962:2 quirin 752:8 quite 776:21 777:23 783:14 794:5 853:13 859:14 866:18,18 867:8 880:24 882:4 933:10 940:6,10 1040:5 quoted 910:16 ________ r _______ r 750:1 751:1 752:1 753:1 877:22 rabbit 893:8 rabino 899:6 929:5,5 rainbow 868:19 raise 971:15 1019:11 raised 803:23,24 ralph 770:17,20 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [ran - rejection] Page 47 ran 755:14 random 890:8 range 903:1 940:25 rapidly 931:4 rapping 1009:18 rate 880:24 881:4 988:24 1003:3 rating 822:21 823:13 ratings 825:22 ratio 1000:15,18 1000:19 rats 885:22 raw 833:20,23 834:3 870:4,9,11 871:3,4,4 943:21 944:1 947:1,5 1048:4 rawle 751:8 rawle.com 751:11 ray 782:11,23 783:4,9 793:19,24 839:10 844:16 848:10 902:8 reached 1023:24 1041:5 reaching 880:2 read 764:14 765:20 771:14,15 816:23 835:18 858:22 859:9 872:8 890:16 892:22 902:14 906:25 907:5 915:15 918:6,12 920:16 931:2,8,10 934:23 938:3,10 940:9 949:9,15,16 951:7 952:3 953:3 956:5 958:17 959:24 967:1,2 982:24 991:19 996:10,13,16,19 1018:13 1028:16 1056:3 readily 823:8 909:19 1025:13 reading 759:15 760:2 962:12 976:23 998:17 reads 777:1 787:4 788:7 948:23 ready 760:1 real 861:4 940:4,6 956:5 1028:12 really 860:15 862:9 867:17 874:14 918:20 932:14 958:3 966:25 1006:10 rearrange 1024:9 reason 759:14 761:8 801:10 810:16 841:6 893:15,17 894:16 895:10 1035:15 1058:5 reasonable 778:6 818:10 860:8 reasons 785:3 reath 753:11 rebuttal 968:4 recall 754:18,19 775:22 863:21 892:6 905:5 932:4 recalled 1044:3 receipt 1042:9 received 787:25 789:9 820:1 960:7 965:16 970:8 1026:22 reception 1021:12 recognition 1015:10 1025:3 recognize 852:11 recognized 884:22 recollect 876:14 925:14,14 926:4 965:2 982:4 1004:14 1011:12 1033:19 recollection 913:13 922:3 recommended 779:16 831:3 record 754:1,2 774:18 814:20,21 857:23 859:1,5 863:13 864:12 886:7,8 926:15 937:11,12 942:13 942:14 965:12 996:6,7 1012:21 1024:17 1026:19 1028:13,14 1040:16,18,19 1043:19 1057:9 recorded 1057:6 records 774:4 784:11 845:14 846:4,14 897:25 899:2 934:15 940:8 991:20 1020:13 1034:24 1035:21 1036:1 1037:2 1041:11,12 1041:18,20 rectify 910:23 red 948:1 redacted 851:11 refer 956:25 981:141016:16 refereed 976:15 reference 904:20 950:13 958:21,23 959:4,11 974:16 1018:9 references 785:12 850:5 907:24 959:7,17 964:12 964:15 974:14,15 974:17 979:8 1030:23 referencing 967:20 referred 827:25 referring 878:15 905:9 refers 980:2 regard 907:3 1034:12 regarded 767:22 regarding 776:14 778:14 853:19 879:3 954:13 regards 965:22 regina 798:11 register 791:18 regular 821:14 843:21 844:2,2,8 848:14 849:24 851:13 852:14 1036:3,6,11 regularly 856:14 regulating 807:6 regulation 781:10 857:13,15 regulations 976:11 regulatory 827:18 879:4 1012:11 rejected 1037:15 rejection 1037:22 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [relate - results] Page 48 relate 761:6 875:7 944:10,22 946:5 948:25 949:10 966:25 related 769:16 777:8 815:23 881:14 890:22,22 890:23 897:20 966:20 relates 760:4 763:23 812:2 relation 835:22 relationship 905:21 933:9 947:12 999:20 relative 914:16 967:15 1057:12,15 release 951:17,19 951:25 952:18 1019:22 1020:24 1024:5 released 795:8,15 796:15 reliable 781:15 799:18 804:3,4 relieve 1041:25 remarks 1014:24 remember 771:2 815:3 859:23 864:13 876:13 898:17 913:11,19 913:20 922:7,9 941:14 988:5 995:10 remove 964:12 removed 829:19 repeating 797:13 rephrase 978:22 rephrasing 978:24 978:25 replicas 921:18 report 785:23 806:3 808:20 821:23 822:4 824:15,22 897:17 897:18 898:13 916:1 917:5,7 922:3 927:4,7 930:16 950:25 951:4,23 952:23 958:22 960:18 962:7 998:23 999:7 1046:4,21 1047:15 1050:19 reported 799:23 839:11,25 916:3,4 999:12 1000:9 1003:17,19 1004:19 1005:14 reporter 746:19 794:13 847:9 868:5 877:19 924:1 1004:6 1037:5 1042:1 1043:13 1057:1,3 reporting 953:10 953:16 1058:1 reports 787:25 800:1 812:15 956:4 represent 779:18 789:8 853:17 864:17 1023:8 representative 836:7 842:2 1042:15 represented 755:17 806:17 920:11 representing 786:8 reprim and 1020:7 reputable 890:10 1012:9 1013:15 reputation 1019:11 request 810:8 820:12 834:2 1047:3 requested 941:1 952:6 1030:1 requests 858:20 require 804:20 required 783:16 785:4 812:15 813:11 814:8 823:8 829:24 857:3,5 962:5 1058:21 requirement 810:16 811:15,17 812:8 814:3,4 847:5 855:8 872:1 1047:4 requirements 812:20 962:17 requires 844:25 rereviewed 913:13 research 887:14 888:9 889:1,22,23 890:19 891:15,19 892:5,14 893:22 895:1,16 896:7 908:11 909:3 917:24 921:3,6,13 921:23 923:12 924:3,11 932:4 941:23 980:2 1030:3 researcher 892:12 894:9 896:16,20 923:1 934:25 938:13,22 942:20 946:9 953:15 955:10 961:1 975:24 researchers 893:22 908:15 1031:14 resources 918:18 920:14 respected 909:8 respiratory 993:17 response 878:13 responsible 858:23 902:19 restates 991:6 result 761:19,20 865:22 879:24 891:25 923:15 924:13 945:2 946:4 947:15 989:3 1003:20 1004:1 resulted 1024:2 results 754:13,17 754:23 757:9,17 758:17 759:1,4 760:19 762:13 773:7 783:24 787:24 788:2 794:24 797:10 800:2 802:10,15 802:17,24 807:25 808:2,22 818:5 831:2 839:11,16 848:18,19 849:11 850:24 856:17 866:23 911:8 912:25 913:2,5,7 913:14,16 914:6 914:10 915:23 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [results - right] Page 49 916:2 923:4 924:18 932:13 942:20 943:5 962:8 964:1 970:19 971:25 972:9 976:14 985:21 988:11 992:13 1003:21 1035:13 1036:11 1046:13 resumed 1022:5 retain 801:24 retained 801:16 851:11 retest 801:6 806:20 retract 911:21 1016:21 retraining 797:19 retrospectively 822:9 returning 818:5 review 806:7 886:18 896:13 897:21 936:23 951:16 978:1,5,6,9 978:12 979:3 1014:7 reviewed 771:21 811:3 852:2,6 910:5 934:14,20 935:4 936:4 960:10 977:14,19 977:20,22,23,24 978:17 reviewers 977:16 reviewing 943:21 947:1,5 revise 964:8 1024:9 1027:7 revised 803:19,20 805:4 864:13,16 956:22 957:10 978:16 revision 801:6 804:22 revlon 751:16 rewrite 961:19 976:20 1024:1,9 1027:7,10 rewriting 1024:12 rewritten 962:1 964:18 977:11 rhoads 753:2 rhurst 753:4 rice 884:11 rid 765:2 850:21 979:7,21 987:9 right 754:9,11 755:7,21,24 756:10,12,14,15 757:2,7,12,18,21 757:21 758:13,22 758:23 759:9,13 759:18,18 760:12 761:7,12,25 762:18 763:6,12 763:15,18 764:9 765:18,19 766:16 766:23 767:1,6,7 767:15,16 768:3,6 768:11,20,23 769:10,20,22,25 770:5,8,17,19,21 771:3,14,22,25 772:11,15,24 774:6,10,15,20 775:2,6,7,8,14,18 776:1,6,9,20,25 777:7 778:5,7,17 778:25 779:25 780:5,6,11,13,17 780:25 781:12,16 782:8,11,14,17,19 783:18,24,25 785:1,5,8,10,13,18 785:25 786:14,18 787:3,5,14,15,20 788:6,11,14,19 789:21,24 790:9 790:12,15,19 791:1,10,14,17 792:3,13,21 793:6 793:9,12 794:2,9 794:16,18 795:10 795:23 796:1,6,11 796:16 797:1,16 797:19 798:5,14 798:18 799:8,19 799:25 800:6,19 800:21 801:1,11 801:13,24 802:5 802:12,17,19 803:2,8,15 804:4 804:10,15 805:2 805:20,22 806:4,9 806:12,25 807:9 807:18,21 808:22 809:5,9,11,19,21 810:2,4,9,11,13,18 811:15,18,22 812:6,22 813:3,22 813:25 814:9,15 815:4,7,10,14,19 815:21,24 816:20 817:5,14 818:2,14 818:15 819:1,9,20 819:24 820:4,9,23 821:16 822:11,13 822:15,18,23 823:3,11,14,21,24 824:1,3 825:13 826:12,19,23 827:1,4,7,11 828:1 829:4,20 830:2,10 830:16,18,19 831:6,9,14,21,24 832:3,5,9,11,15,18 832:20,25 833:18 833:18,21,24 834:6,11,14,17 835:17 836:5,18 837:4,10 838:6,9 838:24 839:2,7,13 839:16,22 840:14 840:17,22 841:16 841:19,20,24 842:2,8,18,20,24 844:12 845:4,7,17 846:2 847:6 848:3 849:2 850:6,11,16 850:22 852:17 853:8 854:3,14,18 854:24 855:16,23 855:25 856:3,7,12 856:18 857:1,4,11 857:21,25 858:6 858:15,19 859:3,7 859:18,25 860:4,6 860:12,23 861:6 861:13 862:6,8,12 863:13,25 864:5,8 864:22,24,25 865:3 866:6 867:19,21 868:2 868:11 869:9,24 870:13,20,22 871:5,8,17,22,24 872:3,7,11,15,23 873:20 874:4,10 874:20 875:1,4,8 875:11,16 876:20 877:1,4,6,17 878:5 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [right - rock's] Page 50 878:9,10,16,18,21 879:6,13,22,25 880:4,7,23 881:18 883:3,6,19,24 886:3,10,15 887:4 887:9,17,19,25 888:12,18,22 889:3,5,16,24 890:16,24 891:2,5 891:8,13,16 892:1 892:25 893:4,9,20 894:13 895:17 897:5,10,14 898:5 898:9,19,22,23 899:1,3,20 900:11 900:16,19 901:17 901:20,25 902:14 902:22 903:7,10 903:22,25 904:3 904:16 905:2,10 905:13,18 906:3,6 906:12,17,25 907:4,19,21 908:6 908:15,18,20 909:7 910:1,13,14 911:4,10,14,24 912:11,14,17,22 913:4,8,11,15,17 913:19 914:20 916:7,13,13,15,17 916:23 917:15,24 918:3,20 919:8,16 919:19 920:2,6,16 920:24 921:4,7 922:2,12,12,15 923:1,6 924:8,11 924:15 925:21 926:1,20,24 927:3 927:10,13 928:7 928:10,20,22,25 929:19,23,25 930:5,21 931:8,11 931:15,18,25 932:16,18,24 933:12 934:5,8,10 934:23 935:1,6,20 935:23,25 936:2,5 936:8,10,13,17 937:2,15,19 938:3 938:10,13,18,21 939:5,10,17,20 940:5 941:7,9,18 942:6,16 943:9,16 944:1,8,16 946:1,7 947:19,21 949:8 949:15,18 950:2 950:12,13,16,19 951:7,11 952:10 953:3 954:5,14,16 954:24 955:8,12 955:24 956:9,12 956:17 957:10,12 958:4,6,9,12,15 959:7,14,17,24 961:10,13,18 962:20 963:5,7,10 963:11,20 964:1 964:16 965:7,9,13 965:16,19,23 966:6 967:1,3,11 967:12,23 968:6 968:11,15,18,21 968:24 969:3,10 969:20,24 970:1 970:13 971:1,6,16 972:10,13,17 973:3,9,10,15,18 973:23 974:4,12 974:17,22 975:1 975:12,15,21 976:5,17,21 977:12,23 978:21 979:10,21 980:6 980:16,21,24 981:7,21,25 983:9 983:13,17,21 984:13,17 985:14 985:22 986:2,14 986:16 987:2,4,15 987:18 988:2,11 988:15,17,21 989:10,14,23,25 990:3,6,16,24 991:2,5,8,15 992:14,18,22 993:4,14,18 994:1 994:9,12,14,16,21 995:8,11,13,16,22 996:3,22 997:16 998:3,12,24 999:1 999:3 1000:3,9,13 1000:17,21 1001:5 1002:5,7,10,13,20 1002:21,23 1003:1 1003:16 1005:15 1005:19 1006:17 1007:9,12,15 1008:1,6,18,21 1009:6,8,10,16,23 1010:3,18 1011:6 1011:18 1012:1,14 1012:18 1013:11 1013:15,20 1014:12 1015:5,14 1015:17,25 1016:3 1016:13,17 1017:2 1017:24 1018:5,13 1019:2,7 1020:2 1020:16,18 1021:4 1021:8,25 1022:10 1023:16 1024:13 1024:20 1025:18 1025:22 1026:8 1027:1,14,17,23 1028:3,6,23 1029:2,6,23 1030:10,13,15 1031:2,5,14,22 1032:1,6,11 1034:2,10,16 1035:11,23 1036:5 1036:14 1038:8,19 1038:24 1039:2,11 1039:13,18,24 1040:10 1041:1 rio 1012:1 risk 854:13 885:19 1000:20 1002:22 rj 820:21,24 821:19 822:4 823:18 824:4 825:24 870:10 871:2 872:6,8 873:6,19 1047:16 robert 878:10 robin 785:25 786:17 788:1 789:10 794:18 795:18,22 796:4 797:14 798:8 800:3 801:5,11 803:14 804:14 805:8 806:18,20 808:15 809:7 830:19 831:2 1046:6,10,13,16 1047:22 robins 805:9 rock 769:13 850:15,16 957:23 957:25 958:10,18 959:5 975:11 rock's 850:20 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [rocks - saying] Page 51 rocks 957:18 958:20,22 roger 755:5 rohl 785:13 1032:10 1033:9,14 1033:15,19,21 1055:17 role 795:24 797:2 828:12 886:22 887:23 888:2 898:18 900:18 959:15 960:13,13 960:15 974:2,4,11 974:14 986:7 roles 1013:24 1031:17 roll 1009:1 rolle 925:17 1031:22,24 romano 752:21 973:15 987:10 rome 1012:10 1013:15 1023:6 ronald 748:3 753:2 roof 885:9 room 851:24 root 822:21 roots 884:16 roped 998:15 rough 1042:8 round 785:24 786:17 788:1 789:10 794:18 795:18,22 796:4 797:14 798:8 800:3 801:5,11 803:14 804:14 805:8,8 806:18,20 808:15 809:7 830:19 831:2 1005:25 1046:6,10 1046:12,16 1047:22 routine 783:17,22 784:5 785:6 843:11 844:14,20 845:7 846:18 849:8 routinely 771:12 855:6 rs 768:15 rubino 896:17 928:5,6 933:25 934:8,14 935:20 936:21,25 937:15 938:1,8,16,21 939:13,24 940:22 942:3 943:15,18 950:4 951:2,10,22 952:7 954:16,19 955:10,18,22 956:10,25 958:20 958:25 959:4 960:5,7,17,17,25 963:2,13 966:20 969:8,16,19 970:8 970:22 972:15,16 973:14 975:14,21 976:17 977:10,21 980:9,22 981:24 982:22 983:11,22 984:4,7,16 985:8 985:17 996:24 1051:19 1052:5,9 1052:21 1053:3,8 1053:15,20 rubino's 953:9 955:21 957:15 959:16 962:1 973:9 978:16 981:5,11,19 983:6 ruddier 1030:18 1055:13 run 812:25 836:12 860:9 954:25 971:22 972:16 1028:12 1036:24 running 795:17 852:21 runs 865:14 rural 944:13 945:1 946:16 947:13 948:20 949:14 rush 893:16 895:11 russell 768:15,16 1044:12________ ________ s________ s 750:1,18 751:1 751:14 752:1 753:1,23 877:20 888:6 927:5,5 928:12 1044:7 1058:5 sacks 1034:25 1035:2 safe 854:2,7 876:11 safest 1020:15 safety 806:4,7,11 859:11 897:8 898:1 968:4,20 1026:19 1046:22 1049:17 saint 751:17 sales 786:9 sample 755:24 756:9,12,22 757:1 775:4 795:7 796:13 803:5 816:4,5,18 817:7 818:5,8 826:3 835:4 836:7 837:2 837:3 839:4 842:1 842:24 865:15 871:3 873:25 890:4 910:11,12 samples 755:17 757:8 762:8 775:16 786:11 787:9,14 788:9 789:20 791:3 793:18 796:13 797:1 800:6,8 820:1 827:10 835:16 839:23,24 840:15 843:4,4 866:11 870:11,17 890:3 896:4 902:24 903:25 919:11 922:6 sampling 838:13 864:24 870:4,9 874:8 1035:1 san 970:11 sat 1037:25 satisfy 966:13 Saturday 936:20 save 909:21 saw 790:25 809:3 819:6,7 824:24 827:6 829:6 857:12 875:6 898:9 922:6 932:15 1005:8,8 1005:10,11,12 1011:23 saying 766:9,12 774:8 778:19 796:12 797:15 807:4 825:2,7 859:15 860:20 882:10 887:12,18 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [saying - see] Page 52 891:6 900:10 901:8,12 905:25 918:4 919:18 923:4 926:5,14 931:17,24 932:13 942:20 945:8,15 945:21 947:7,24 957:9 959:6 960:21 961:12 971:5 976:17,19 976:20 977:17 979:13 1001:17 1009:7 1010:19 1013:18 1017:8,12 1017:19 1022:5 1030:19 says 755:16 756:13 758:8,10 762:4 763:9 769:10,10 770:9 773:1 776:12 779:20 780:15 782:7,20 787:7,23 789:6,23 793:18 795:14 796:23 801:4 802:25 803:1 806:6 809:15 810:15 811:2,13 812:18 814:2 816:16 817:6 818:13,23 821:21 822:17,25 823:6,13,16 825:12,24 829:8 830:22 834:10 836:16 838:18 839:1 851:22 853:23 855:25 862:20 868:8,15 870:4,9,9,15 871:7 874:2 886:17 887:3 888:5 889:9 889:18 890:2 891:17 899:9 902:6 905:4 906:8 906:13 908:9 910:16911:18 912:18 917:18 919:5,13 920:9 930:17 938:16 944:20 948:3 949:3,17 950:21 951:14 961:23,24 966:3 969:15 971:9,16,17 972:17 973:2 975:5 976:22 979:24 981:1 983:2,13 985:6,7 985:23 986:4 987:12,22 988:22 995:6 999:15 1010:14 1013:12 1013:14 1015:16 1015:19 1017:12 1022:17 1025:7,25 1027:10,11,25 1029:11,13,14,24 1030:15 1032:8 scan 775:10,15 867:5 scanning 923:18 scans 867:3 scansetti 973:14 scary 929:6 scenarios 808:19 schaffner 966:5,21 schelz 788:22 794:16 795:17 796:3,12,25 798:9 798:17 800:2 801:5,15,23 802:7 830:23 831:1,3 1046:3,9,12 schelz's 804:1 schematic 1048:10 school 827:7 862:19 905:16,21 905:24 906:6,10 906:16 907:3,6,19 908:13,17 909:23 911:12 912:1 914:8,19 915:24 916:9 924:23,24 932:15 1023:7,7 1031:10,17 1032:5 1034:7 1050:10 1055:16 science 890:21 918:17 925:4 961:9 988:18 sciences 904:10 scientific 785:23 887:9906:23 907:12 924:10 926:17 932:3 941:22 943:1,5 945:4,5,19 951:18 952:18 956:4 962:8 976:13,16 977:7 980:2 992:14 1005:2 1046:4 scientifically 814:13 scientist 955:11 965:2 979:20 1023:6 1032:24 1040:1 scientists 875:22 882:4 914:22 997:18 1008:11 screening 975:8 scrutinized 960:10 second 755:4 760:11761:18 780:17 782:13 786:3 801:4,14 812:17 825:24 834:9 868:2 873:11 917:22 919:4 938:6 966:1 996:24 1010:11 1013:3,22 1017:10 1024:11 1025:15 1026:13 seconded 770:15 secretarial 940:7 section 755:14 812:20 838:18 917:8 918:24 919:25 920:21 980:3,9 1014:20 1015:4 sections 917:7 983:16 sector 1015:5,17 sediment 758:23 758:24,25 760:12 761:18,24 763:23 764:1 766:4 767:1 see 755:4,6,16 760:5 761:23 771:12 772:22 774:24 780:15 781:1 785:12 786:3 788:19 790:3,18 791:13 791:15 801:23 803:12 806:15,19 806:23 808:17 810:7 811:8 813:16 814:13 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [see - shelves] Page 53 817:17 820:1,18 822:8 823:11 824:22 837:17 838:16 841:10,16 844:9 849:8 857:20 862:18 863:1,14 864:19 865:11,17 866:3 868:1 871:14 873:10 876:3 896:12 898:19 903:6 907:13 918:20,24 919:1 920:24 921:7 922:1 926:23 931:19,20,20 938:23 950:12 954:6 960:20 965:15 971:7 974:15,21 975:4 985:6 987:12,23 991:14,17 993:12 995:6 998:21 999:15,15 1010:14 1012:17,25 1014:8 1014:20 1015:12 1023:2 1025:5 1029:3 1030:8 1036:16 1039:8 seeing 814:2 885:1 925:15 1005:3 seek 923:12 924:6 seen 773:9 774:4 776:9 783:9,24 796:2 810:21 813:14 824:15 835:20,21 848:2 848:21,22 849:20 850:5 851:2,20,20 856:5 867:2 885:20 888:24 898:17 904:5 909:6 922:19 925:7,10,12 950:13 1013:22 1014:11 1024:11 1030:23 1036:1 sees 970:16 selected 783:1 784:22 1035:2 selevan 976:7 977:1,18 986:6 self 807:6 857:15 selikoff 898:2,4 902:18 976:8,9 977:2,18 1033:21 selikoffs 980:1 sell 928:2 selling 1010:15 semple 1054:16 send 788:9 925:5 961:7 1020:25 sending 802:8 840:8 942:19 962:16 sends 908:17 912:1 senior 965:2 sense 814:9,10 974:5 sensitive 783:6 sensitivity 776:3 777:4 784:23 787:11 930:5 1025:12 sent 775:4 802:14 802:23 862:11,22 863:13 890:3 900:16 977:15 978:7 1021:18 sentence 765:23 766:11 948:23 961:4 sentences 983:18 separate 781:21 837:11 1036:25 1037:3 1041:15 separated 995:3 September 1018:4 1054:24 septillions 1038:7 serious 794:23 894:10 909:19,25 911:1912:13 915:11 seriously 754:21 serpentine 902:11 903:14,16 1007:10 1007:22 1054:4 serve 938:13 service 787:1 1020:13 services 941:5 sesqui 927:19,24 set 767:15 768:23 769:22 772:17 778:25 783:21 785:18 794:2 810:4 817:14 820:4 827:13 828:13,21 830:10 833:10 843:1 859:10 864:2 867:20 869:9 877:6 878:19 888:19 901:17 904:19 913:13 924:22 930:7 933:16 936:13 938:20 941:18 950:2 960:1 962:7 967:6 969:10 973:5 975:17 980:12 984:25 992:20 1000:7,11 1006:17 1007:14 1008:8 1012:20 1014:1 1018:15 1019:10 1026:2 1027:19 1031:5 seven 776:8 787:12 788:9 790:17 792:5 796:13 800:8,9,11 800:12 803:13,15 805:15 812:25 851:18 1008:17 seventh 792:15,20 793:5 800:12 sgpb 1042:13 sgpblaw.com 750:6,6 shadowed 921:19 shadowing 923:19 shannon 748:4 shape 943:5 shapiro 966:19 shared 967:17 sharing 1052:17 sharia 750:9 769:3 817:20 1006:21 1041:2 sharla.frost 750:11 shave 902:25 shb.com 750:16 sheet 927:7 1058:1 shelf 786:8 shelley 776:7 886:16 889:5 916:23 1045:8,12 1049:9,12 shelves 925:23 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [shipments - small] Page 54 shipments 769:9 1044:17 shook 746:16 750:13 short 903:5 shorthand 1057:7 show 802:16 890:7 890:23 944:11,24 946:14 948:18 949:11964:2 976:9 981:15 995:10 999:19 1025:24 showed 811:2 914:20,21 947:10 1006:5,13 1008:17 shower 927:12,12 showing 812:11 861:7 912:25 913:5 shown 758:4 779:13,15 784:12 804:3 913:2,7 shows 762:5 901:9 949:20 shulton 752:15,15 752:16,16,17,18 752:19 sic 788:3 789:12 802:9,21 948:5 973:22 1017:25 1018:20 side 993:10 sided 858:19 sides 860:17 sigma 901:21 904:8 908:2 1050:4 sign 789:20 signed 1056:11 1057:19 significance 971:13 999:4 1004:4,12 significant 793:21 854:12 900:3,4 997:14,19 998:22 999:5,11 1000:8 1000:20 1001:21 1003:6,21 1004:15 1005:1 silica 958:1 975:6 silicate 922:21 1016:11,20,25 1017:11,17 1018:11 silicates 1015:22 1016:16,18,23 1017:4,7,9,20 1018:10 silicon 922:21 sfio 834:11 836:10 836:18 837:3 839:9,23 840:14 842:11,12 843:3 silos 834:11,16 836:10,11,17,21 837:3 839:5,6 840:13,14,20,25 841:9,17,20,23,24 842:7,11,15,23 843:10 similar 876:19 894:19 925:22 similarly 765:13 1020:21 simmons 752:12 simon 750:3 simple 894:16 1006:10 simplified 993:24 994:1,3,10 995:19 simply 893:22 913:16 998:9 sinai 770:15 786:5 787:2 788:3 790:1 806:18,21 926:8 1033:9 single 1001:23 sir 754:9 759:13 761:25 762:12 763:19 765:13,19 767:15 768:23 769:22 773:25 775:18 785:18 794:2 795:17 796:19 798:4 810:7 814:9,23 817:5,14 819:25 820:4,16 822:16 830:10,16,18 834:9 838:16 841:3 843:1 861:9 863:16 867:20,23 869:9 877:6 883:3 883:7 886:10,15 888:22 903:23 904:3 914:7 916:19 930:21,23 933:16 936:13 941:18 942:16 945:21 946:18,22 948:15 961:16 969:10 973:5 975:17 982:12 987:16 991:5 992:20,22 993:9 996:10,22 997:25 998:23 1000:12,13 1001:15 1004:19 1006:17 1007:2 1011:21 1014:1,6 1015:14 1028:16 1031:5 1032:22 sit 759:14 761:8,13 796:7 844:12 850:24 852:1 914:22 1035:12 site 823:18 825:8 952:7 995:22 sites 755:19 990:15,22 994:16 1002:20,20 1005:12,14 situation 797:8 873:5 889:13 897:22 927:7 928:18 952:24 966:25 1023:16 six 790:17 903:12 size 845:11 847:20 894:19 1006:2 skill 1009:18 skip 970:7 972:20 skipped 769:5 slaughter 908:12 916:12 slide 855:2 856:25 slides 877:12 slight 1026:17 1027:10,12 slightly 841:6 847:3 sloan 916:21 1050:15 slot 945:6,9,16 947:25 948:4,6,9 948:11 small 766:5 783:14 817:12 925:7 971:12 975:6,9 1004:12 1031:2 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [smaller - standard] Page 55 smaller 995:23 smith 892:8,16 897:7 899:8 916:23 921:4 933:22 935:8 939:9 943:14 954:13 960:4 975:20 977:5,17 980:19 983:5,21 985:5 1049:16,21 1050:22 1051:3,7 1051:13,18 1052:4 1052:8 1053:7,10 1053:13,17 smithfield 751:9 smoke 885:8 smokers 991:22 992:1,1,6,17 1004:17 smoking 1006:1 smr 1000:13 1001:7,10,11 1003:5 snider 902:5 908:24 909:12,16 932:16 society 897:10 952:25 954:20 955:21 983:8 1014:9 1019:2 1029:6 1049:18 sodium 927:19,24 soeh 983:7 986:11 sold 830:3 845:22 846:13 852:17 1037:3,6,6 solutions 747:9 748:9 749:8 826:10 somebody 840:9 891:11,15 936:10 964:19 somebody's 919:20 someone's 876:21 1024:12 son 969:25 973:2 1019:5,7 1021:3 sonicated 817:11 soon 787:25 sophisticated 923:19 924:4 sops 823:7 sorry 761:17 767:11 768:14 769:3 817:20 826:7 830:13 838:2 845:22 852:13 870:1,6 874:3 896:25 920:20 930:10,15 960:24 988:1 1000:24 1002:3,4 1004:6 1013:6 1015:15 1016:21 1033:24 1037:4 sort 767:19 771:2 841:8 843:3 852:20 854:16 858:19 860:16,17 860:17 876:19 1023:14 1038:12 sorts 834:5 sound 938:21 971:13 sounds 940:16 source 779:17,18 913:1,24 sources 755:24 797:10 956:23 south 751:20 753:3,7 spalding 752:20 speak 1022:18 1027:22 1030:5 speakers 900:14 901:5 speaking 890:24 1024:4 1036:3 speaks 1028:9 spec 769:17 883:12,12 special 797:13 1052:15 specialist 923:17 specialties 753:5 species 890:9 specific 826:22 901:14 921:21 specifically 781:21 847:12 854:11 957:22 specification 810:8,25 811:14 812:9 813:7,12,13 813:14,16,18 814:2,8,14 838:8 844:23 845:3,6 847:25 867:24 883:6,23 884:1 1037:24 1047:3 1048:18,23 1049:7 specifications 769:9 823:7 843:2 855:11 883:11 1044:18 specs 769:11 speculate 882:25 speculation 883:2 speculative 929:8 spelling 878:1 spending 967:15 spent 849:7 914:15 spiked 787:9,14 790:8,18 800:6,9 808:17 splash 929:5 split 917:7 spoke 892:8 947:7 1002:1 1013:4 spoken 849:22 852:8 sponsor 931:17,19 931:20 956:16 sponsored 786:6 917:13 920:22 923:6,9,11 sponsoring 939:19 spray 902:25 spring 899:14 Squibb 751:17 stack 1014:2 staff 909:2 1019:15 1021:15 1024:24 1025:10 1050:12 stage 761:11 805:18 845:9 971:19 1011:7 stages 951:3 staining 782:14 stamp 837:13 857:21 965:16 1041:14 stand 756:3 911:19914:18 915:23 standard 787:9,14 794:6 826:10 828:13,16,21 1000:14,15,19 1047:8 1054:3 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [standards - studying] Page 56 standards 770:25 1015:2 stands 796:22 887:14 staple 833:15 stapled 837:12 starch 809:16,17 809:18,25 start 885:1 949:2 986:25 started 929:24 934:10 952:10 starting 1034:15 starts 986:25 state 746:1 765:24 766:1 807:20 823:22 824:9 835:13 911:5 946:4 948:17 982:24 1004:15 stated 763:20 791:6 798:21 809:18 811:19 826:20 831:15 832:16,21 899:20 901:4 908:3 910:12,25 932:1 945:2,3 statement 829:13 829:19,24 855:7 1025:16 1047:19 states 751:22 757:22 772:1 785:2,9 796:17 797:17 802:20 806:24 807:10 809:20 810:1 811:16819:2 823:4 827:24 828:12 831:7,13 872:4 878:17 888:1 910:18 912:15,23 919:17 941:4 953:22 954:23 1007:21 1012:12 1018:9 1028:2,4 stating 802:3 804:19 statistical 971:13 991:24 999:4 1004:1 1005:24 statistically 793:20 997:14,19 998:22 999:10 1000:6,20 1001:19 1001:21 1002:22 1003:3,6,19,21 statistician 1004:8 1005:23 statisticians 960:10 statistics 960:16 960:21 962:9 974:6,6 978:2,10 978:19 997:13 1001:22 status 806:2,7 916:20 917:5 930:16 936:23 986:5 1046:21 1050:14 statutory 1042:1 stay 766:5 1036:6 staying 910:20 stefano 897:18 898:12 899:1,6 928:24 936:23 937:4,5,15,17,22 938:7,24 939:12 939:24 940:22,23 941:9 951:1,10 952:6 956:21 970:4 971:20,21 973:20 981:1 983:6,11 985:5 1053:11,18 stefano's 897:21 941:3 Stephen 1040:22 steps 905:16 906:10 sieve 878:10 sticks 907:2 stipulate 1041:8 1041:12 stipulation 1041:18 1042:25 stipulations 1040:17 stomach 989:20 990:5,12,20 994:5 995:21 1005:10 stop 786:10 1024:3 stoped 957:24 958:13 stopped 946:7 1021:17 stored 826:10 straight 846:6 965:18 street 746:16 750:9,14,19 751:9 752:3,8,22 753:3,7 strict 1015:24 strike 780:1 strong 889:14 1033:1 stronger 1032:19 strongly 829:18 students 908:24 909:1 915:3 studies 779:15 810:22 861:7,24 885:21 893:24 894:1 896:1 917:11 939:14 952:9 967:20,24 968:4,10,11 972:25 984:8,11 1051:14 1052:5 study 773:10 861:11 863:22 886:20 887:4,9 890:21,21,24 898:23 906:24 907:12 913:10,12 926:17 928:24 931:1,7,18,25 933:3,23 934:2,10 934:18,20 936:17 936:24 938:2,18 939:10 941:11,13 941:17 942:3 943:1,5,25 945:14 949:20 951:1,20 952:20 956:17 960:25 963:2,5 966:20 968:2,17 970:10,17,19,21 970:23 971:11,14 971:21 972:6,7,7,9 972:12,16 973:9 974:1 983:22 984:4,6,17,19 985:8,18,19 986:21,24 991:25 992:11 1020:14,17 1050:23 1051:5,9 1052:16 1053:14 studying 943:23 947:3 1011:4,6 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [stuff - taken] Page 57 stuff 766:25 769:20 813:22 906:1 914:20,21 962:21 983:17 style 961:6 962:7 962:11,14 978:4 982:8 1007:14 subcontracted 783:23 subject 769:7 770:1 772:22 778:15,16 779:9 806:3 855:5 930:25 933:22 936:16 949:22 1008:23 1012:4,24 subjected 770:25 subjects 944:12,24 946:15 948:19 949:12 submission 867:3 submissions 857:23 1048:15 submit 855:6 934:18,25 submits 981:12 submitted 775:5 962:2 submitting 943:20 946:25 subscribe 773:14 subscribed 1058:21 subsidiary 746:6,6 substance 957:4,6 substances 827:3 substantial 1012:8 success 880:24 881:4 successful 906:21 successor 747:8,9 748:8,9 749:7,8 752:15,16,18 sued 747:8 748:8 749:7 752:15,16 752:18 suffer 783:13 suggest 803:7 804:15 suggested 802:7 829:15 876:11 1023:4 suggesting 804:16 915:8 971:24 1009:13 suggestions 801:7 suggests 825:17 984:3 suit 972:8 suitable 779:14 944:15 1026:17 1027:12 suite 750:4,9,14 751:9,14,20 752:13,22 753:7 957:20 summarises 917:5 summarize 940:9 summary 787:24 800:7 806:6 833:20 1048:4 super 938:21 1039:5 superior 746:1 747:1 748:1 749:1 supplied 896:3,5 966:9 supply 779:10,19 1045:17 support 779:10 974:21 1025:9 1045:16 supposed 817:7 supposedly 847:18 supposition 777:12 778:4,5 supra 769:14,15 769:18,19 supreme 1009:18 sure 754:16,22 760:3 762:3 768:14 771:5 792:12,23 800:20 803:25 808:7 850:4,21 853:15 859:23 861:15 863:10 874:6 876:6,6 892:24 894:5 898:20 900:6 918:10 945:11 978:13,13 984:18 991:23 992:9 997:12 1002:4 1026:17 1029:12 1032:23 1037:2 1040:11 surface 890:5,7 921:17 surprises 984:12 1020:17 surprising 989:3 surveillance 773:19 940:25 survey 909:13 1014:25 suspect 773:7 suspended 766:5 suspicious 954:7 sutcliffe 752:2 SVC 1019:1 1024:9 sworn 1058:21 sykes 770:15 symposia 948:8 symposium 899:12,16 900:2,6 900:8,19 901:5,15 953:21 1049:22 symposiums 901:2 ________ t t 751:8 1044:7 table 758:22 759:23 762:5 789:15,17 791:6 793:16,17 800:4 822:19 903:6,23 910:11 987:24 988:10 993:12 tables 789:8,13,14 tablet 828:18 tabulated 834:2 tabulation 763:16 take 762:12 776:17 785:4 800:15 808:9 814:16,17 815:25 817:7 828:19 834:24 836:12,13 836:13 837:23 839:6 875:25 884:16 885:7 886:4 905:16 906:10 933:6 936:5 942:11 995:18 996:5 1000:11,24 1002:4 1002:20 1013:24 1028:10 1034:20 1040:5 1042:20 1043:11 taken 746:15 835:5 840:15 858:23 981:18 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [results - right] Page 49 916:2 923:4 924:18 932:13 942:20 943:5 962:8 964:1 970:19 971:25 972:9 976:14 985:21 988:11 992:13 1003:21 1035:13 1036:11 1046:13 resumed 1022:5 retain 801:24 retained 801:16 851:11 retest 801:6 806:20 retract 911:21 1016:21 retraining 797:19 retrospectively 822:9 returning 818:5 review 806:7 886:18 896:13 897:21 936:23 951:16 978:1,5,6,9 978:12 979:3 1014:7 reviewed 771:21 811:3 852:2,6 910:5 934:14,20 935:4 936:4 960:10 977:14,19 977:20,22,23,24 978:17 reviewers 977:16 reviewing 943:21 947:1,5 revise 964:8 1024:9 1027:7 revised 803:19,20 805:4 864:13,16 956:22 957:10 978:16 revision 801:6 804:22 revlon 751:16 rewrite 961:19 976:20 1024:1,9 1027:7,10 rewriting 1024:12 rewritten 962:1 964:18 977:11 rhoads 753:2 rhurst 753:4 rice 884:11 rid 765:2 850:21 979:7,21 987:9 right 754:9,11 755:7,21,24 756:10,12,14,15 757:2,7,12,18,21 757:21 758:13,22 758:23 759:9,13 759:18,18 760:12 761:7,12,25 762:18 763:6,12 763:15,18 764:9 765:18,19 766:16 766:23 767:1,6,7 767:15,16 768:3,6 768:11,20,23 769:10,20,22,25 770:5,8,17,19,21 771:3,14,22,25 772:11,15,24 774:6,10,15,20 775:2,6,7,8,14,18 776:1,6,9,20,25 777:7 778:5,7,17 778:25 779:25 780:5,6,11,13,17 780:25 781:12,16 782:8,11,14,17,19 783:18,24,25 785:1,5,8,10,13,18 785:25 786:14,18 787:3,5,14,15,20 788:6,11,14,19 789:21,24 790:9 790:12,15,19 791:1,10,14,17 792:3,13,21 793:6 793:9,12 794:2,9 794:16,18 795:10 795:23 796:1,6,11 796:16 797:1,16 797:19 798:5,14 798:18 799:8,19 799:25 800:6,19 800:21 801:1,11 801:13,24 802:5 802:12,17,19 803:2,8,15 804:4 804:10,15 805:2 805:20,22 806:4,9 806:12,25 807:9 807:18,21 808:22 809:5,9,11,19,21 810:2,4,9,11,13,18 811:15,18,22 812:6,22 813:3,22 813:25 814:9,15 815:4,7,10,14,19 815:21,24 816:20 817:5,14 818:2,14 818:15 819:1,9,20 819:24 820:4,9,23 821:16 822:11,13 822:15,18,23 823:3,11,14,21,24 824:1,3 825:13 826:12,19,23 827:1,4,7,11 828:1 829:4,20 830:2,10 830:16,18,19 831:6,9,14,21,24 832:3,5,9,11,15,18 832:20,25 833:18 833:18,21,24 834:6,11,14,17 835:17 836:5,18 837:4,10 838:6,9 838:24 839:2,7,13 839:16,22 840:14 840:17,22 841:16 841:19,20,24 842:2,8,18,20,24 844:12 845:4,7,17 846:2 847:6 848:3 849:2 850:6,11,16 850:22 852:17 853:8 854:3,14,18 854:24 855:16,23 855:25 856:3,7,12 856:18 857:1,4,11 857:21,25 858:6 858:15,19 859:3,7 859:18,25 860:4,6 860:12,23 861:6 861:13 862:6,8,12 863:13,25 864:5,8 864:22,24,25 865:3 866:6 867:19,21 868:2 868:11 869:9,24 870:13,20,22 871:5,8,17,22,24 872:3,7,11,15,23 873:20 874:4,10 874:20 875:1,4,8 875:11,16 876:20 877:1,4,6,17 878:5 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [right - rock's] Page 50 878:9,10,16,18,21 879:6,13,22,25 880:4,7,23 881:18 883:3,6,19,24 886:3,10,15 887:4 887:9,17,19,25 888:12,18,22 889:3,5,16,24 890:16,24 891:2,5 891:8,13,16 892:1 892:25 893:4,9,20 894:13 895:17 897:5,10,14 898:5 898:9,19,22,23 899:1,3,20 900:11 900:16,19 901:17 901:20,25 902:14 902:22 903:7,10 903:22,25 904:3 904:16 905:2,10 905:13,18 906:3,6 906:12,17,25 907:4,19,21 908:6 908:15,18,20 909:7 910:1,13,14 911:4,10,14,24 912:11,14,17,22 913:4,8,11,15,17 913:19 914:20 916:7,13,13,15,17 916:23 917:15,24 918:3,20 919:8,16 919:19 920:2,6,16 920:24 921:4,7 922:2,12,12,15 923:1,6 924:8,11 924:15 925:21 926:1,20,24 927:3 927:10,13 928:7 928:10,20,22,25 929:19,23,25 930:5,21 931:8,11 931:15,18,25 932:16,18,24 933:12 934:5,8,10 934:23 935:1,6,20 935:23,25 936:2,5 936:8,10,13,17 937:2,15,19 938:3 938:10,13,18,21 939:5,10,17,20 940:5 941:7,9,18 942:6,16 943:9,16 944:1,8,16 946:1,7 947:19,21 949:8 949:15,18 950:2 950:12,13,16,19 951:7,11 952:10 953:3 954:5,14,16 954:24 955:8,12 955:24 956:9,12 956:17 957:10,12 958:4,6,9,12,15 959:7,14,17,24 961:10,13,18 962:20 963:5,7,10 963:11,20 964:1 964:16 965:7,9,13 965:16,19,23 966:6 967:1,3,11 967:12,23 968:6 968:11,15,18,21 968:24 969:3,10 969:20,24 970:1 970:13 971:1,6,16 972:10,13,17 973:3,9,10,15,18 973:23 974:4,12 974:17,22 975:1 975:12,15,21 976:5,17,21 977:12,23 978:21 979:10,21 980:6 980:16,21,24 981:7,21,25 983:9 983:13,17,21 984:13,17 985:14 985:22 986:2,14 986:16 987:2,4,15 987:18 988:2,11 988:15,17,21 989:10,14,23,25 990:3,6,16,24 991:2,5,8,15 992:14,18,22 993:4,14,18 994:1 994:9,12,14,16,21 995:8,11,13,16,22 996:3,22 997:16 998:3,12,24 999:1 999:3 1000:3,9,13 1000:17,21 1001:5 1002:5,7,10,13,20 1002:21,23 1003:1 1003:16 1005:15 1005:19 1006:17 1007:9,12,15 1008:1,6,18,21 1009:6,8,10,16,23 1010:3,18 1011:6 1011:18 1012:1,14 1012:18 1013:11 1013:15,20 1014:12 1015:5,14 1015:17,25 1016:3 1016:13,17 1017:2 1017:24 1018:5,13 1019:2,7 1020:2 1020:16,18 1021:4 1021:8,25 1022:10 1023:16 1024:13 1024:20 1025:18 1025:22 1026:8 1027:1,14,17,23 1028:3,6,23 1029:2,6,23 1030:10,13,15 1031:2,5,14,22 1032:1,6,11 1034:2,10,16 1035:11,23 1036:5 1036:14 1038:8,19 1038:24 1039:2,11 1039:13,18,24 1040:10 1041:1 rio 1012:1 risk 854:13 885:19 1000:20 1002:22 rj 820:21,24 821:19 822:4 823:18 824:4 825:24 870:10 871:2 872:6,8 873:6,19 1047:16 robert 878:10 robin 785:25 786:17 788:1 789:10 794:18 795:18,22 796:4 797:14 798:8 800:3 801:5,11 803:14 804:14 805:8 806:18,20 808:15 809:7 830:19 831:2 1046:6,10,13,16 1047:22 robins 805:9 rock 769:13 850:15,16 957:23 957:25 958:10,18 959:5 975:11 rock's 850:20 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [rocks - saying] Page 51 rocks 957:18 958:20,22 roger 755:5 rohl 785:13 1032:10 1033:9,14 1033:15,19,21 1055:17 role 795:24 797:2 828:12 886:22 887:23 888:2 898:18 900:18 959:15 960:13,13 960:15 974:2,4,11 974:14 986:7 roles 1013:24 1031:17 roll 1009:1 rolle 925:17 1031:22,24 romano 752:21 973:15 987:10 rome 1012:10 1013:15 1023:6 ronald 748:3 753:2 roof 885:9 room 851:24 root 822:21 roots 884:16 roped 998:15 rough 1042:8 round 785:24 786:17 788:1 789:10 794:18 795:18,22 796:4 797:14 798:8 800:3 801:5,11 803:14 804:14 805:8,8 806:18,20 808:15 809:7 830:19 831:2 1005:25 1046:6,10 1046:12,16 1047:22 routine 783:17,22 784:5 785:6 843:11 844:14,20 845:7 846:18 849:8 routinely 771:12 855:6 rs 768:15 rubino 896:17 928:5,6 933:25 934:8,14 935:20 936:21,25 937:15 938:1,8,16,21 939:13,24 940:22 942:3 943:15,18 950:4 951:2,10,22 952:7 954:16,19 955:10,18,22 956:10,25 958:20 958:25 959:4 960:5,7,17,17,25 963:2,13 966:20 969:8,16,19 970:8 970:22 972:15,16 973:14 975:14,21 976:17 977:10,21 980:9,22 981:24 982:22 983:11,22 984:4,7,16 985:8 985:17 996:24 1051:19 1052:5,9 1052:21 1053:3,8 1053:15,20 rubino's 953:9 955:21 957:15 959:16 962:1 973:9 978:16 981:5,11,19 983:6 ruddier 1030:18 1055:13 run 812:25 836:12 860:9 954:25 971:22 972:16 1028:12 1036:24 running 795:17 852:21 runs 865:14 rural 944:13 945:1 946:16 947:13 948:20 949:14 rush 893:16 895:11 russell 768:15,16 1044:12________ s s 750:1,18 751:1 751:14 752:1 753:1,23 877:20 888:6 927:5,5 928:12 1044:7 1058:5 sacks 1034:25 1035:2 safe 854:2,7 876:11 safest 1020:15 safety 806:4,7,11 859:11 897:8 898:1 968:4,20 1026:19 1046:22 1049:17 saint 751:17 sales 786:9 sample 755:24 756:9,12,22 757:1 775:4 795:7 796:13 803:5 816:4,5,18 817:7 818:5,8 826:3 835:4 836:7 837:2 837:3 839:4 842:1 842:24 865:15 871:3 873:25 890:4 910:11,12 samples 755:17 757:8 762:8 775:16 786:11 787:9,14 788:9 789:20 791:3 793:18 796:13 797:1 800:6,8 820:1 827:10 835:16 839:23,24 840:15 843:4,4 866:11 870:11,17 890:3 896:4 902:24 903:25 919:11 922:6 sampling 838:13 864:24 870:4,9 874:8 1035:1 san 970:11 sat 1037:25 satisfy 966:13 Saturday 936:20 save 909:21 saw 790:25 809:3 819:6,7 824:24 827:6 829:6 857:12 875:6 898:9 922:6 932:15 1005:8,8 1005:10,11,12 1011:23 saying 766:9,12 774:8 778:19 796:12 797:15 807:4 825:2,7 859:15 860:20 882:10 887:12,18 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [saying - see] Page 52 891:6 900:10 901:8,12 905:25 918:4 919:18 923:4 926:5,14 931:17,24 932:13 942:20 945:8,15 945:21 947:7,24 957:9 959:6 960:21 961:12 971:5 976:17,19 976:20 977:17 979:13 1001:17 1009:7 1010:19 1013:18 1017:8,12 1017:19 1022:5 1030:19 says 755:16 756:13 758:8,10 762:4 763:9 769:10,10 770:9 773:1 776:12 779:20 780:15 782:7,20 787:7,23 789:6,23 793:18 795:14 796:23 801:4 802:25 803:1 806:6 809:15 810:15 811:2,13 812:18 814:2 816:16 817:6 818:13,23 821:21 822:17,25 823:6,13,16 825:12,24 829:8 830:22 834:10 836:16 838:18 839:1 851:22 853:23 855:25 862:20 868:8,15 870:4,9,9,15 871:7 874:2 886:17 887:3 888:5 889:9 889:18 890:2 891:17 899:9 902:6 905:4 906:8 906:13 908:9 910:16911:18 912:18 917:18 919:5,13 920:9 930:17 938:16 944:20 948:3 949:3,17 950:21 951:14 961:23,24 966:3 969:15 971:9,16,17 972:17 973:2 975:5 976:22 979:24 981:1 983:2,13 985:6,7 985:23 986:4 987:12,22 988:22 995:6 999:15 1010:14 1013:12 1013:14 1015:16 1015:19 1017:12 1022:17 1025:7,25 1027:10,11,25 1029:11,13,14,24 1030:15 1032:8 scan 775:10,15 867:5 scanning 923:18 scans 867:3 scansetti 973:14 scary 929:6 scenarios 808:19 schaffner 966:5,21 schelz 788:22 794:16 795:17 796:3,12,25 798:9 798:17 800:2 801:5,15,23 802:7 830:23 831:1,3 1046:3,9,12 schelz's 804:1 schematic 1048:10 school 827:7 862:19 905:16,21 905:24 906:6,10 906:16 907:3,6,19 908:13,17 909:23 911:12 912:1 914:8,19 915:24 916:9 924:23,24 932:15 1023:7,7 1031:10,17 1032:5 1034:7 1050:10 1055:16 science 890:21 918:17 925:4 961:9 988:18 sciences 904:10 scientific 785:23 887:9 906:23 907:12 924:10 926:17 932:3 941:22 943:1,5 945:4,5,19 951:18 952:18 956:4 962:8 976:13,16 977:7 980:2 992:14 1005:2 1046:4 scientifically 814:13 scientist 955:11 965:2 979:20 1023:6 1032:24 1040:1 scientists 875:22 882:4 914:22 997:18 1008:11 screening 975:8 scrutinized 960:10 second 755:4 760:11 761:18 780:17 782:13 786:3 801:4,14 812:17 825:24 834:9 868:2 873:11 917:22 919:4 938:6 966:1 996:24 1010:11 1013:3,22 1017:10 1024:11 1025:15 1026:13 seconded 770:15 secretarial 940:7 section 755:14 812:20 838:18 917:8 918:24 919:25 920:21 980:3,9 1014:20 1015:4 sections 917:7 983:16 sector 1015:5,17 sediment 758:23 758:24,25 760:12 761:18,24 763:23 764:1 766:4 767:1 see 755:4,6,16 760:5 761:23 771:12 772:22 774:24 780:15 781:1 785:12 786:3 788:19 790:3,18 791:13 791:15 801:23 803:12 806:15,19 806:23 808:17 810:7 811:8 813:16 814:13 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [see - shelves] Page 53 817:17 820:1,18 822:8 823:11 824:22 837:17 838:16 841:10,16 844:9 849:8 857:20 862:18 863:1,14 864:19 865:11,17 866:3 868:1 871:14 873:10 876:3 896:12 898:19 903:6 907:13 918:20,24 919:1 920:24 921:7 922:1 926:23 931:19,20,20 938:23 950:12 954:6 960:20 965:15 971:7 974:15,21 975:4 985:6 987:12,23 991:14,17 993:12 995:6 998:21 999:15,15 1010:14 1012:17,25 1014:8 1014:20 1015:12 1023:2 1025:5 1029:3 1030:8 1036:16 1039:8 seeing 814:2 885:1 925:15 1005:3 seek 923:12 924:6 seen 773:9 774:4 776:9 783:9,24 796:2 810:21 813:14 824:15 835:20,21 848:2 848:21,22 849:20 850:5 851:2,20,20 856:5 867:2 885:20 888:24 898:17 904:5 909:6 922:19 925:7,10,12 950:13 1013:22 1014:11 1024:11 1030:23 1036:1 sees 970:16 selected 783:1 784:22 1035:2 selevan 976:7 977:1,18 986:6 self 807:6 857:15 selikoff 898:2,4 902:18 976:8,9 977:2,18 1033:21 selikoff s 980:1 sell 928:2 selling 1010:15 semple 1054:16 send 788:9 925:5 961:7 1020:25 sending 802:8 840:8 942:19 962:16 sends 908:17 912:1 senior 965:2 sense 814:9,10 974:5 sensitive 783:6 sensitivity 776:3 777:4 784:23 787:11 930:5 1025:12 sent 775:4 802:14 802:23 862:11,22 863:13 890:3 900:16 977:15 978:7 1021:18 sentence 765:23 766:11 948:23 961:4 sentences 983:18 separate 781:21 837:11 1036:25 1037:3 1041:15 separated 995:3 September 1018:4 1054:24 septillions 1038:7 serious 794:23 894:10 909:19,25 911:1 912:13 915:11 seriously 754:21 serpentine 902:11 903:14,16 1007:10 1007:22 1054:4 serve 938:13 service 787:1 1020:13 services 941:5 sesqui 927:19,24 set 767:15 768:23 769:22 772:17 778:25 783:21 785:18 794:2 810:4 817:14 820:4 827:13 828:13,21 830:10 833:10 843:1 859:10 864:2 867:20 869:9 877:6 878:19 888:19 901:17 904:19 913:13 924:22 930:7 933:16 936:13 938:20 941:18 950:2 960:1 962:7 967:6 969:10 973:5 975:17 980:12 984:25 992:20 1000:7,11 1006:17 1007:14 1008:8 1012:20 1014:1 1018:15 1019:10 1026:2 1027:19 1031:5 seven 776:8 787:12 788:9 790:17 792:5 796:13 800:8,9,11 800:12 803:13,15 805:15 812:25 851:18 1008:17 seventh 792:15,20 793:5 800:12 sgpb 1042:13 sgpblaw.com 750:6,6 shadowed 921:19 shadowing 923:19 shannon 748:4 shape 943:5 shapiro 966:19 shared 967:17 sharing 1052:17 sharia 750:9 769:3 817:20 1006:21 1041:2 sharla.frost 750:11 shave 902:25 shb.com 750:16 sheet 927:7 1058:1 shelf 786:8 shelley 776:7 886:16 889:5 916:23 1045:8,12 1049:9,12 shelves 925:23 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [shipments - small] Page 54 shipments 769:9 1044:17 shook 746:16 750:13 short 903:5 shorthand 1057:7 show 802:16 890:7 890:23 944:11,24 946:14 948:18 949:11 964:2 976:9 981:15 995:10 999:19 1025:24 showed 811:2 914:20,21 947:10 1006:5,13 1008:17 shower 927:12,12 showing 812:11 861:7 912:25 913:5 shown 758:4 779:13,15 784:12 804:3 913:2,7 shows 762:5 901:9 949:20 shulton 752:15,15 752:16,16,17,18 752:19 sic 788:3 789:12 802:9,21 948:5 973:22 1017:25 1018:20 side 993:10 sided 858:19 sides 860:17 sigma 901:21 904:8 908:2 1050:4 sign 789:20 signed 1056:11 1057:19 significance 971:13 999:4 1004:4,12 significant 793:21 854:12 900:3,4 997:14,19 998:22 999:5,11 1000:8 1000:20 1001:21 1003:6,21 1004:15 1005:1 silica 958:1 975:6 silicate 922:21 1016:11,20,25 1017:11,17 1018:11 silicates 1015:22 1016:16,18,23 1017:4,7,9,20 1018:10 silicon 922:21 silo 834:11 836:10 836:18 837:3 839:9,23 840:14 842:11,12 843:3 silos 834:11,16 836:10,11,17,21 837:3 839:5,6 840:13,14,20,25 841:9,17,20,23,24 842:7,11,15,23 843:10 similar 876:19 894:19 925:22 similarly 765:13 1020:21 simmons 752:12 simon 750:3 simple 894:16 1006:10 simplified 993:24 994:1,3,10 995:19 simply 893:22 913:16 998:9 sinai 770:15 786:5 787:2 788:3 790:1 806:18,21 926:8 1033:9 single 1001:23 sir 754:9 759:13 761:25 762:12 763:19 765:13,19 767:15 768:23 769:22 773:25 775:18 785:18 794:2 795:17 796:19 798:4 810:7 814:9,23 817:5,14 819:25 820:4,16 822:16 830:10,16,18 834:9 838:16 841:3 843:1 861:9 863:16 867:20,23 869:9 877:6 883:3 883:7 886:10,15 888:22 903:23 904:3 914:7 916:19 930:21,23 933:16 936:13 941:18 942:16 945:21 946:18,22 948:15 961:16 969:10 973:5 975:17 982:12 987:16 991:5 992:20,22 993:9 996:10,22 997:25 998:23 1000:12,13 1001:15 1004:19 1006:17 1007:2 1011:21 1014:1,6 1015:14 1028:16 1031:5 1032:22 sit 759:14 761:8,13 796:7 844:12 850:24 852:1 914:22 1035:12 site 823:18 825:8 952:7 995:22 sites 755:19 990:15,22 994:16 1002:20,20 1005:12,14 situation 797:8 873:5 889:13 897:22 927:7 928:18 952:24 966:25 1023:16 six 790:17 903:12 size 845:11 847:20 894:19 1006:2 skill 1009:18 skip 970:7 972:20 skipped 769:5 slaughter 908:12 916:12 slide 855:2 856:25 slides 877:12 slight 1026:17 1027:10,12 slightly 841:6 847:3 sloan 916:21 1050:15 slot 945:6,9,16 947:25 948:4,6,9 948:11 small 766:5 783:14 817:12 925:7 971:12 975:6,9 1004:12 1031:2 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [smaller - standard] Page 55 smaller 995:23 smith 892:8,16 897:7 899:8 916:23 921:4 933:22 935:8 939:9 943:14 954:13 960:4 975:20 977:5,17 980:19 983:5,21 985:5 1049:16,21 1050:22 1051:3,7 1051:13,18 1052:4 1052:8 1053:7,10 1053:13,17 smithfield 751:9 smoke 885:8 smokers 991:22 992:1,1,6,17 1004:17 smoking 1006:1 smr 1000:13 1001:7,10,11 1003:5 snider 902:5 908:24 909:12,16 932:16 society 897:10 952:25 954:20 955:21 983:8 1014:9 1019:2 1029:6 1049:18 sodium 927:19,24 soeh 983:7 986:11 sold 830:3 845:22 846:13 852:17 1037:3,6,6 solutions 747:9 748:9 749:8 826:10 somebody 840:9 891:11,15 936:10 964:19 somebody's 919:20 someone's 876:21 1024:12 son 969:25 973:2 1019:5,7 1021:3 sonicated 817:11 soon 787:25 sophisticated 923:19 924:4 sops 823:7 sorry 761:17 767:11 768:14 769:3 817:20 826:7 830:13 838:2 845:22 852:13 870:1,6 874:3 896:25 920:20 930:10,15 960:24 988:1 1000:24 1002:3,4 1004:6 1013:6 1015:15 1016:21 1033:24 1037:4 sort 767:19 771:2 841:8 843:3 852:20 854:16 858:19 860:16,17 860:17 876:19 1023:14 1038:12 sorts 834:5 sound 938:21 971:13 sounds 940:16 source 779:17,18 913:1,24 sources 755:24 797:10 956:23 south 751:20 753:3,7 spalding 752:20 speak 1022:18 1027:22 1030:5 speakers 900:14 901:5 speaking 890:24 1024:4 1036:3 speaks 1028:9 spec 769:17 883:12,12 special 797:13 1052:15 specialist 923:17 specialties 753:5 species 890:9 specific 826:22 901:14 921:21 specifically 781:21 847:12 854:11 957:22 specification 810:8,25 811:14 812:9 813:7,12,13 813:14,16,18 814:2,8,14 838:8 844:23 845:3,6 847:25 867:24 883:6,23 884:1 1037:24 1047:3 1048:18,23 1049:7 specifications 769:9 823:7 843:2 855:11 883:11 1044:18 specs 769:11 speculate 882:25 speculation 883:2 speculative 929:8 spelling 878:1 spending 967:15 spent 849:7 914:15 spiked 787:9,14 790:8,18 800:6,9 808:17 splash 929:5 split 917:7 spoke 892:8 947:7 1002:1 1013:4 spoken 849:22 852:8 sponsor 931:17,19 931:20 956:16 sponsored 786:6 917:13 920:22 923:6,9,11 sponsoring 939:19 spray 902:25 spring 899:14 Squibb 751:17 stack 1014:2 staff 909:2 1019:15 1021:15 1024:24 1025:10 1050:12 stage 761:11 805:18 845:9 971:19 1011:7 stages 951:3 staining 782:14 stamp 837:13 857:21 965:16 1041:14 stand 756:3 911:19914:18 915:23 standard 787:9,14 794:6 826:10 828:13,16,21 1000:14,15,19 1047:8 1054:3 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [standards - studying] Page 56 standards 770:25 1015:2 stands 796:22 887:14 staple 833:15 stapled 837:12 starch 809:16,17 809:18,25 start 885:1 949:2 986:25 started 929:24 934:10 952:10 starting 1034:15 starts 986:25 state 746:1 765:24 766:1 807:20 823:22 824:9 835:13 911:5 946:4 948:17 982:24 1004:15 stated 763:20 791:6 798:21 809:18 811:19 826:20 831:15 832:16,21 899:20 901:4 908:3 910:12,25 932:1 945:2,3 statement 829:13 829:19,24 855:7 1025:16 1047:19 states 751:22 757:22 772:1 785:2,9 796:17 797:17 802:20 806:24 807:10 809:20 810:1 811:16 819:2 823:4 827:24 828:12 831:7,13 872:4 878:17 888:1 910:18 912:15,23 919:17 941:4 953:22 954:23 1007:21 1012:12 1018:9 1028:2,4 stating 802:3 804:19 statistical 971:13 991:24 999:4 1004:1 1005:24 statistically 793:20 997:14,19 998:22 999:10 1000:6,20 1001:19 1001:21 1002:22 1003:3,6,19,21 statistician 1004:8 1005:23 statisticians 960:10 statistics 960:16 960:21 962:9 974:6,6 978:2,10 978:19 997:13 1001:22 status 806:2,7 916:20 917:5 930:16 936:23 986:5 1046:21 1050:14 statutory 1042:1 stay 766:5 1036:6 staying 910:20 stefano 897:18 898:12 899:1,6 928:24 936:23 937:4,5,15,17,22 938:7,24 939:12 939:24 940:22,23 941:9 951:1,10 952:6 956:21 970:4 971:20,21 973:20 981:1 983:6,11 985:5 1053:11,18 stefano's 897:21 941:3 Stephen 1040:22 steps 905:16 906:10 Steve 878:10 sticks 907:2 stipulate 1041:8 1041:12 stipulation 1041:18 1042:25 stipulations 1040:17 stomach 989:20 990:5,12,20 994:5 995:21 1005:10 stop 786:10 1024:3 stoped 957:24 958:13 stopped 946:7 1021:17 stored 826:10 straight 846:6 965:18 street 746:16 750:9,14,19 751:9 752:3,8,22 753:3,7 strict 1015:24 strike 780:1 strong 889:14 1033:1 stronger 1032:19 strongly 829:18 students 908:24 909:1 915:3 studies 779:15 810:22 861:7,24 885:21 893:24 894:1 896:1 917:11 939:14 952:9 967:20,24 968:4,10,11 972:25 984:8,11 1051:14 1052:5 study 773:10 861:11 863:22 886:20 887:4,9 890:21,21,24 898:23 906:24 907:12 913:10,12 926:17 928:24 931:1,7,18,25 933:3,23 934:2,10 934:18,20 936:17 936:24 938:2,18 939:10 941:11,13 941:17 942:3 943:1,5,25 945:14 949:20 951:1,20 952:20 956:17 960:25 963:2,5 966:20 968:2,17 970:10,17,19,21 970:23 971:11,14 971:21 972:6,7,7,9 972:12,16 973:9 974:1 983:22 984:4,6,17,19 985:8,18,19 986:21,24 991:25 992:11 1020:14,17 1050:23 1051:5,9 1052:16 1053:14 studying 943:23 947:3 1011:4,6 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [stuff - taken] Page 57 stuff 766:25 769:20 813:22 906:1 914:20,21 962:21 983:17 style 961:6 962:7 962:11,14 978:4 982:8 1007:14 subcontracted 783:23 subject 769:7 770:1 772:22 778:15,16 779:9 806:3 855:5 930:25 933:22 936:16 949:22 1008:23 1012:4,24 subjected 770:25 subjects 944:12,24 946:15 948:19 949:12 submission 867:3 submissions 857:23 1048:15 submit 855:6 934:18,25 submits 981:12 submitted 775:5 962:2 submitting 943:20 946:25 subscribe 773:14 subscribed 1058:21 subsidiary 746:6,6 substance 957:4,6 substances 827:3 substantial 1012:8 success 880:24 881:4 successful 906:21 successor 747:8,9 748:8,9 749:7,8 752:15,16,18 sued 747:8 748:8 749:7 752:15,16 752:18 suffer 783:13 suggest 803:7 804:15 suggested 802:7 829:15 876:11 1023:4 suggesting 804:16 915:8 971:24 1009:13 suggestions 801:7 suggests 825:17 984:3 suit 972:8 suitable 779:14 944:15 1026:17 1027:12 suite 750:4,9,14 751:9,14,20 752:13,22 753:7 957:20 summarises 917:5 summarize 940:9 summary 787:24 800:7 806:6 833:20 1048:4 super 938:21 1039:5 superior 746:1 747:1 748:1 749:1 supplied 896:3,5 966:9 supply 779:10,19 1045:17 support 779:10 974:21 1025:9 1045:16 supposed 817:7 supposedly 847:18 supposition 777:12 778:4,5 supra 769:14,15 769:18,19 supreme 1009:18 sure 754:16,22 760:3 762:3 768:14 771:5 792:12,23 800:20 803:25 808:7 850:4,21 853:15 859:23 861:15 863:10 874:6 876:6,6 892:24 894:5 898:20 900:6 918:10 945:11 978:13,13 984:18 991:23 992:9 997:12 1002:4 1026:17 1029:12 1032:23 1037:2 1040:11 surface 890:5,7 921:17 surprises 984:12 1020:17 surprising 989:3 surveillance 773:19 940:25 survey 909:13 1014:25 suspect 773:7 suspended 766:5 suspicious 954:7 sutcliffe 752:2 SVC 1019:1 1024:9 sworn 1058:21 sykes 770:15 symposia 948:8 symposium 899:12,16 900:2,6 900:8,19 901:5,15 953:21 1049:22 symposiums 901:2 ________ t________ t 751:8 1044:7 table 758:22 759:23 762:5 789:15,17 791:6 793:16,17 800:4 822:19 903:6,23 910:11 987:24 988:10 993:12 tables 789:8,13,14 tablet 828:18 tabulated 834:2 tabulation 763:16 take 762:12 776:17 785:4 800:15 808:9 814:16,17 815:25 817:7 828:19 834:24 836:12,13 836:13 837:23 839:6 875:25 884:16 885:7 886:4 905:16 906:10 933:6 936:5 942:11 995:18 996:5 1000:11,24 1002:4 1002:20 1013:24 1028:10 1034:20 1040:5 1042:20 1043:11 taken 746:15 835:5 840:15 858:23 981:18 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [taken - task] Page 58 996:10,13,16,19 1020:10 1056:4 1057:5 talc 751:12 753:9 760:21,21 761:20 761:22 765:16 766:8 769:7,13,15 769:15 770:1,14 771:6,6,8 773:5 776:14 777:4,8,15 778:14 779:10,12 779:16,17,23 780:10 781:16 782:2,8,22 786:7 787:9 790:18 791:14 798:24 800:9 806:4,7,11 810:9,17,20,25 811:25 812:2,3 815:10 816:7,17 821:1,5 828:18,19 828:20 829:12,14 829:16,18 833:21 834:4 842:24 844:14 847:25 849:23 854:1,2,7,8 854:17 857:23 859:11 862:21 865:22,24 867:6,7 867:9 868:18,22 870:17 871:12 873:3,13 878:15 878:19,20 879:3 879:10,10,21,24 879:25 880:1 883:7,11 886:24 888:7,10,17 889:12 892:7 893:16,25,25 894:12,13 895:2,7 895:11,24,25 896:4,20 897:8,9 897:10,13,20 898:1,13,14 899:12,19,23 913:1,6,24 916:20 917:6,19,24 918:25 921:14,21 922:1,3,4,6,22 928:4 929:10 930:2,2 931:1,17 933:23 934:3,4 936:25 937:6,6,19 950:16 951:6 952:25 955:6 956:23,24 957:1 957:15,24 958:4,5 958:7,8,10,20,22 960:5 966:10,21 968:4,17,20 969:18 970:18 971:23 972:22,24 975:8 979:15,18 979:19 980:2 981:12,16 983:22 984:9 985:18 986:8,13 987:2,7 988:9 991:14 993:3 999:20 1007:11 1009:3 1010:17,241011:2 1011:15 1012:4,7 1014:9,21 1015:11 1015:20 1016:7 1017:7,8,13,22 1018:9,12,18 1019:6,11,12,15 1019:18 1020:15 1021:17 1022:5,23 1025:1,4,17 1026:20 1030:5 1034:23 1037:9 1038:1,1 1040:3 1044:16 1045:4,13 1045:17 1046:21 1047:6,10,21 1048:6,12,15,20 1048:22 1049:7,13 1049:17,18,18,22 1050:8,14,23 1051:5,10,13 1052:4,9,16,20 1053:4,14,21 1054:5,13,21 talcosvc 1029:4 talcs 770:24 786:23 830:1 912:22 929:15 1009:21 1012:8 1015:4,16 1019:16 1023:22 1044:14 talcum 785:25 788:4 789:11 795:22 798:8 807:8 809:2,5 902:4,7,24,25 903:1 905:7 908:1 908:3 1032:1 1046:7,17 1050:4 talcums 925:19 926:9 talk 773:12 841:1 845:9 861:5 866:1 870:25 880:19 890:21 899:11 901:13 907:7 908:15 914:23 915:1 943:19 946:24 948:4 954:19 955:6,17 957:17 963:23 976:7 977:1 981:4 988:18 1013:18,23 1021:17 1022:5,23 1040:17 talked 765:2,22 771:2 780:5 807:13 834:14 865:4 883:10 887:6 903:17 905:20 906:14 921:23 924:25 926:8 927:22 929:21 958:2 963:22 982:7 1008:9 1027:17 talking 766:10 804:9 811:9 827:3 891:24 919:25 921:2,22 922:25 928:6 935:22 940:12 944:7 951:24 954:22 961:25 979:5 1002:5 1006:8 1008:13 1017:6 1028:22 1030:13 1030:14,24 1031:12,21 1036:22 1038:6,11 1038:13 talks 765:25 789:13 834:5 855:19 target 822:22 task 785:24 786:6 786:24 788:23 789:10 794:22 795:21 797:9 798:7,21 830:19 831:23 832:1 833:3 906:22 968:2 1046:5,15 1047:21 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [technical - things] Page 59 technical 835:6 974:8 1021:2 1022:7 1025:8 technically 978:24 1027:20 technicians 1020:4 technique 776:16 816:19 818:24 893:14 919:7,12 techniques 912:21 technology 784:21 807:3 telephone 746:7 751:2 753:23 859:13 867:6 909:16 964:5 telex 1026:12 1029:14 1055:13 tell 760:9 775:1 843:9 844:12 847:11 849:11,11 850:20 852:3 862:15,15 864:11 869:1 906:16 909:24 946:9 953:7 961:10,15 989:16 1001:7 1004:7 telling 771:23 824:23 860:3 867:13 904:23 957:10 1004:23 1010:1 tells 760:14 824:4 838:23 847:23 852:2 911:12 969:6 tem 770:14 771:9 771:18 772:10 773:21 774:1,5 782:16 783:22 813:6 815:21 816:7 818:17 824:1 834:13 840:13 843:11 871:3 872:1,11,12 872:17,22 1047:10 1047:13 1048:22 ten 762:15,17,24 765:25 812:6 873:24 874:14,22 877:11 945:15 947:24 948:3,5,8 948:11 1039:17 tend 774:13 tenovus 921:13,22 tentative 801:6 822:12 tenth 817:9 842:6 1040:7 term 765:4 835:19 897:20 1016:25 terms 820:7 955:6 974:8 terrible 860:13 territory 1012:7 test 781:19 782:10 786:7,17 787:24 788:2,10 793:3 799:16 800:3,17 804:14 805:14 809:6,16 818:13 818:19 819:7,15 819:19,21,21,23 820:2,7,12 821:1 823:7,17,19,23,25 824:6,11,15,17,18 825:12 833:23 834:13 844:14 846:23 848:11 880:8 1007:5 1009:15 1010:8 1011:15 1035:13 1036:11 1047:8 1054:3 tested 786:12 792:6 793:23 833:24 838:19 844:15 852:4 1037:9 testify 851:4,8 861:8 866:22 testimony 942:17 1011:14 1056:4 1057:4,9 testing 781:15 783:22 785:25 789:10 795:22 798:8 802:9,10,20 804:20 813:5 815:17,23 820:5 821:4 823:10,20 824:7,25 827:3 830:19 832:22 833:21 834:3 842:22 843:2,21 844:18,20 845:3,6 845:9 846:18 847:13 848:14 849:8 851:3,6,14 851:20,21 852:3 895:23 896:8 1007:14,14 1009:10 1034:13 1034:15 1036:1,11 1037:12 1046:6,16 1047:22 1048:6 testing's 815:6 tests 781:14 802:14 827:9 863:2 teuscher 748:3,4 752:10 753:5 996:11 1058:3 texaco 909:14 texas 750:5,10,15 909:14 text 765:21 th 889:5 thackston 751:13 thank 761:25 769:3 797:24 829:10 830:14 833:17 838:4 841:4 878:8 900:25 930:19 997:25 1013:7 1026:12 1041:1 1043:8 thanks 754:8 985:16 1026:24 theoretically 802:18 833:23 860:5 thereof 1056:6 thermal 1007:19 1054:5 thing 762:2 773:9 776:22 778:2,20 781:19 860:17 885:22 918:17 945:16 947:25 980:23 1002:5 things 754:12 783:8 799:21 813:19 828:15 832:11 845:4 853:22 860:4,21 883:13 887:6 914:23 923:13 939:1,4 945:13 978:21 986:23 992:12 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [think - traces] Page 60 think 754:24 760:5 772:4 773:22 775:7,13 780:17 784:14 788:25 790:3 816:12 817:15 818:10 821:3 836:22 843:5 844:22 847:3 849:5,16 859:19 860:16 861:14 863:3 864:11,16 868:12 869:18,19 877:10 888:24 894:8 903:9 904:5 907:7 911:9 916:10 918:4 921:23 925:23 926:7 927:22 931:6 933:2,10 944:5,21 945:8,21 948:24 949:6 951:18 953:13 954:2 965:2 966:16 972:5 976:22 984:8,23 985:19 986:9,23 988:3 991:5,6 993:25 1010:19 1011:23 1015:9 1029:14 1032:16 1034:14 1038:5 1040:3 1043:18 thinking 926:7,11 929:10 thinks 929:4,16 972:16 third 751:4 793:16 869:25 thirty 876:16 thought 869:3 886:23 887:24 1002:3 1008:4 1009:191020:14 1029:1 thoughts 1026:14 thousand 819:12 896:8 three 759:5 769:5 773:2 789:15 790:17 791:4,5 792:17 793:9,12 794:9,24,25 799:1 809:4 813:13 886:1 892:15,15 895:3 908:17,23 916:13 917:7 925:8 978:8 1019:23 1021:15 threw 1039:25 throw 913:9 thursday 746:12 1056:4 1057:6 thusly 922:22 tight 1026:8 till 1024:6 1030:7 time 754:4 772:2 775:23 777:22 783:15,21 785:3 789:5 793:1 796:10 799:11 801:22 802:1 809:9 810:24 812:8 816:3 821:15,15 825:18 841:22 844:9 845:14,16 849:7 851:22 852:5 860:10,10,11 861:15 864:6 868:13 880:9 885:11 908:24 911:23 914:15 934:19 935:8 945:6,9,13,15 947:25 948:3,5,9 948:11 951:15 953:2 1006:10 1007:13 1011:14 1013:22 1019:24 1021:18 1024:11 1029:19 1034:14 1037:10 1040:5,21 1042:12 1043:5 timeframe 845:19 times 819:13 820:1 821:25 844:5 864:4 926:5 963:13,19 1038:23 1039:8 timothy 869:13 tina 746:3 tinto 1012:1 title 781:3 782:7,9 806:10 902:3 1015:8 1033:18 titled 1007:10 tm 815:7 839:24 tm7024 815:4,15 817:3 839:20 today 754:4 796:7 805:7 816:22 852:1 925:13,15 1030:1 1035:12 1042:12 toes 983:15 toilet 920:1,4 told 770:10 781:8 781:13 806:17 831:17 849:24 852:11 860:22 866:22 894:10 897:17 915:11 916:2 920:6 947:8 956:21 964:8 970:20 980:22 1020:7 1028:5 tolerance 831:18 833:8 tom 776:7 ton 842:15 tons 834:22,23 836:23,23 841:20 842:2,24 top 774:24 781:1 806:19 841:16 855:2 868:9 878:9 901:25 907:24 926:24 942:18 946:22 965:16 983:2 985:7 1019:20 1023:5 1029:3,12 topic 867:9 878:22 880:13 total 757:17 969:3 1006:11 1038:1 1040:2,13 totally 930:1 touch 939:3 tower 750:14 toxicologist 884:7 toxicology 773:11 869:14 877:16,18 879:9 1012:11 tpf 920:11 trace 863:12 927:6 929:17 959:22 1022:8,13,22 1027:23 1028:1,22 1029:1 1055:13 traces 1016:12 1017:18,19 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [traces - Umberto] Page 61 1018:10,12 1030:5 1030:9,16 trachea 988:22,25 trade 828:5 880:10,12,16 trained 797:16 training 797:13 804:20 transcribed 1057:7 transcript 932:7,8 933:17 941:20 960:5 1042:2,9,10 1043:14 1057:5,8 transcription 1056:6 transfer 893:22 894:15 transform 826:5 transit 939:25 translate 775:1 956:13 1022:6 translated 979:3 translation 953:6 956:18 964:11 982:12 1015:10 1017:21,23 1024:15 translocation 879:24 transmission 771:25 772:23 773:3 774:14 782:25 784:22 815:9 839:19 843:18,20 870:12 872:6 1045:9 transm it 958:16 958:25 transmittal 958:25 transport 900:7 955:18 956:1 travis 750:14 tread 983:14 1021:13 treatm ent 880:25 881:4 tremolite 776:4 790:18 791:14 800:9 808:18 831:5,8 832:15,18 832:24 833:5,5 861:7 862:1,21 863:12 865:9,14 866:13 902:11 903:10 913:23 914:1 927:6 975:11,15 1016:24 1017:1 1030:4,14 tremolites 1015:23 1016:16 tried 1008:10 1020:21 trillion 1038:15,15 1038:16,16,23 1039:16 1040:1 trillions 1030:24 1030:25 1038:6 triple 886:12 trouble 780:22 true 791:19 792:6 792:16 796:4 849:5 855:7 874:22 877:13 899:24 916:25 986:21 991:10,18 994:6 1002:16 1026:19 1037:23 1056:5 1057:8 truly 859:5 truth 754:22 923:13,14 924:6 try 775:1 815:3 833:14 943:5 992:14 trying 771:3 829:6 932:21,23 957:5 1013:18 tuberculosis 993:17,18 tubes 880:2 tucker 750:8 tuckerellis.com 750:11 tuesday 941:19 turin 934:1 936:22 951:2 954:13 1051:16,20 1052:6 1052:21 1053:8 turino 986:1 1051:16 turn 755:4 757:8,9 759:23 767:7 789:14 815:1 822:16 854:21 856:1 869:25 879:8 890:12 891:8,25 892:3 911:17 917:3,3 919:22 920:8 987:4 993:9 1015:8,15 turned 957:17 988:1 two 755:6 758:17 758:17,25 759:2,4 760:8,20,21 761:21 762:24 779:2 782:10 784:9,14 787:9,13 788:17 790:17 791:5 793:6 794:25 798:14 802:14,15 803:5 804:8 807:17,19 808:19,19 815:3 821:24,25 822:1,2 822:5 832:11 833:14 834:10 836:10,11,17 837:3 839:4,6 840:12 841:5,6,23 841:24 842:23 843:10 845:4 854:21 856:1 860:4,21 892:15 908:23 909:1 915:2 918:18 921:23 925:8 935:22 942:17 956:22 963:13,19 977:24 988:1 992:12 1019:9 1020:10 1039:1 type 902:9 960:18 typed 927:1 typical 826:24 884:9 921:16 typically 820:6 962:7 u iik 800-21 889-2 895:25 916:20 917-6 918-25 1050-14 ultimately 781:7 856-20 927-12 928-9 ultrasonic 816:17 umberto 936:23 981:2 985:15 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - 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A Veritext Company 718-983-1234 [william.polaski - yeah] Page 64 william.polaski 751:11 willing 934:2 wilson 830:23 wind 1018:2 windham 868:19 window 1026:8 Windsor 755:6,18 760:20 761:20 773:17 774:9 779:13 810:8,17 811:14,23 812:2,3 839:11,16,25 841:7 845:14 846:8,18 852:17 867:25 1007:11 1044:9 1047:5,10 1048:9,19 1054:4 wine 1022:2 1027:5 wines 1021:20 wise 773:18 wish 776:21 778:1 778:20 wishes 984:8 withdraw 925:4 1020:7 1027:6 withdrawn 925:3 1026:23 1034:4 withdraws 920:12 witness 756:8 759:22 768:18 930:17 1004:7 1014:18 1044:3 1057:4 1058:4 women 879:20 word 763:13,16 808:9 811:3,23 835:20 850:8 912:2,4,10 918:9 923:2 931:19,20 931:20 933:7 938:24,25 947:22 948:22 952:24 954:1 958:13 963:8,10,12 977:24 1011:6 1020:25 1021:6 1028:1 1030:6,7,9 1031:15 wording 811:25 words 778:23,24 804:3 811:5 859:23 901:12 924:13 933:5 942:2 958:14 963:4,9 1022:20 1022:21 work 777:14,18,21 777:24 778:8 789:9 886:23 887:23 888:7,13 890:9,20 891:22 891:23 892:9,13 894:11 896:20 899:1 916:20 917:6,13 920:10 920:15,22 921:25 922:14,16 923:6,7 923:9,10,11,16 924:4,4,4,18 930:16 931:7,18 931:25 933:3 938:7 940:10,12 940:18,19 977:7 978:17 982:21 1002:9 1020:11 1023:10 1033:2,9 1033:10 1040:6,7 1050:14 worked 991:6 worker 989:14 workers 897:9 931:1 943:22 947:2 991:2 1049:18 1050:23 working 801:16 808:12 823:9 949:20 982:19 workplace 875:7 875:11 works 886:6 workshop 807:5 world 776:23 778:22 857:8,9 881:11 882:8 884:12 951:18 952:19 970:18 1019:16 1020:16 1023:23 1025:1 worldwide 889:15 worms 959:23 worthy 1032:18 wr 888:23 write 770:3,4 902:17 926:17 1009:19 1033:22 writer 961:9 writes 878:12 1011:22 1021:3 writing 769:11 818:4 827:23 891:10981:1 983:6,16 1009:25 1026:18 1027:13 1032:4,5 written 757:2,6 763:7 792:17 908:23,25 919:20 942:5 943:25 944:19 955:25 958:20 960:18 961:5 980:4 1013:13 1017:21 1017:23 1018:4,14 1018:23 wrong 843:7 906:17 962:19 1022:14 1033:23 wrote 767:13 789:1 827:9 895:13,14 926:5 963:22 980:10,23 982:12 1010:25 1019:7 1033:25 wt 908:11 wurster 827:23 1047:18 wyeth 752:17,17 X x 782:11,23 783:4 783:9 793:19,24 839-10 844-16 848-10 902-8 1044:1,7 xrd 826:11,12 839:2 848:5,12,12 870-19 871 -20 903:7 912:20,25 1007:25 1037:9,14 1037-19 xrf 826:3,7 y yeah 755:15 758:22 760:2,23 760:25 763:1,3 768:14 769:2 770:18 775:9,13 775:17 777:1 778:18 780:3,20 780:22 784:18 789:5 797:23 Priority-One Court Reporting Services Inc. - 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