Document Nege935bQVKGQaL9gQj88LE5D

WITNESS> 1 NO. 19785-BH02 2 3 4 KELLY-MOORE PAINT COMPANY, INC., ) ) 5 Plaintiff, ) vs. ) IN THE DISTRICT OF 6 DOW CHEMICAL COMPANY, et al., ) ) BRAZORIA COUNTY, TEXAS 7) Defendants. ) 23RD JUDICIAL DISTRICT 8) 9 10 11 12 13 DEPOSITION OF GEORGE NAVARRO 14 15 The following deposition was given on the 9th 16 day of December, 2003, commencing at the hour of 1:09 p.m., 17 before Jenna Osborn, a Certified Shorthand Reporter, License 18 Number 8681. 19 The witness personally appeared at Community 20 Bank, 532 Broadway, King City, California. 21 22 23 24 25 Pag WITNESS> Page 2 1 INDEX 2 EXAMINATION BY: PAGE 3 MR. DUBIN 5, 75 4 MR. HAINES 65 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 DEPOSITION EXHIBITS 14 NAVARRO: PAGE 15 1 September 5, 1976 letter to Messers Larrison 39 16 and Piersall 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Appearance Pages 3, 4 24 Deponent's Signature Page 78 25 Reporter's Certificate Page 79 Pag 1 APPEARANCES (CONTINUED) 2 3 For the Deponents: 4 KAZAN, MCCLAIN,EDISON, ABRAMS, FERNANDE: 5 LYONS & FARRISE 6 Attorneys At Law 7 171 12th Street, 3rd Floor 8 Oakland, CA 94607 9 (510) 465-7728 10 BY: FRANK FERNANDEZ, ESQ. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 3 1 APPEARANCES 2 3 For the Plaintiff: 4 LANIER LAW FIRM 5 Attorneys At Law 6 6810 FM 1960 West 7 Houston, TX 77069 8 (713) 659-5200 9 BY: PATRICK N. HAINES, ESQ. 10 AND 11 PHILLIP N. SANOV, ESQ. 12 13 14 For the Defendants: 15 ORRICK, HERRINGTON, & SUTCLIFFE, LLP 16 Attorneys At Law 17 666 Fifth Avenue 18 New York, NY 10103-0001 19 (212) 506-3764 20 BY: MORTON D. DUBIN, ESQ. 21 AND 22 GLENN JONES, ESQ. 23 24 25 Pag 1 GEORGE NAVARRO, 2 testified under penalty of perjury as follows: 3 EXAMINATION BY MR. DUBIN 4 MR. DUBIN: Q. Can you please state your name and 5 current address for the record. 6 A. Sure. George Raul Navarro. George -7 Q. Right. What's your current address? 8 A. 629 Heritage Court. 9 Q. Is that in King City? 10 A. King City. 11 Q. We're here today to take your deposition. I 12 don't know -- I take it you have -- have you ever had your 13 deposition taken before? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Okay. I'm going to ask you a series of 16 questions and the reporter here will take down your answers. 17 And because of that, because there's a written transcript at 18 the end of the day, you have to answer me verbally. Either 19 by shaking your head yes or no won't work. 20 A. Oh, okay. 21 Q. You have to speak your answers. And I'll try 22 to make my questions clear. But if at anytime you don't 23 understand me, let me know and I will try to make them 24 clearer for you so that you can answer them to the best of 25 your ability. COMPANY> WITNESS> Page 6 1 Is that fair? 2 A. Yeah. If I can answer, yes. 3 Q. Okay. And you'll let me know if you don't 4 understand any of my questions? 5 A. Okay. 6 Q. Mr. Navarro, you are represented by an 7 attorney here today; is that correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. And who's that? 10 A. Frank. 11 Q. Mr. Fernandez? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Sitting next to you here today? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Okay. Is he your only attorney? 16 A. Only. 17 Q. Okay. You understand -- do you have an 18 understanding that you have been listed as a witness in a 19 case brought by Kelly-Moore Company against Union Carbide? 20 A. How is that again? 21 Q. You have been listed as a witness in a case 22 called Kelly-Moore versus Union Carbide. Did you know that? 23 A. Well they asked me to testify. 24 Q. Okay. And who asked you to testify? 25 A. I don't remember his name. Pag 1 Q. Where did you meet him? 2 A. I met him at Art's house. 3 Q. And that's Arthur Valdez? 4 A. Yeah. 5 Q. How did you end upcoming to Mr. Valdez's house 6 to meet Mr. Sanov? Did Mr. Valdez call you and invite you? 7 A. Yes. I think it was -- what was it? 8 MR. FERNANDEZ: The question is did you -- did Art 9 invite you to his house to meet Mr. Sanov. That's a yes or 10 a no or I don't remember. 11 THE WITNESS: Yes. 12 MR. DUBIN: Q. Did he explain why he was inviting 13 you over? 14 A. Well, I don't remember what he said. So I 15 can't -16 Q. You don't remember at all what the purpose of 17 the meeting was? 18 A. Well more or less, you know. But not -- you 19 know, just to ask questions, you know. 20 Q. Tell me what you remember about the purpose of 21 the meeting. 22 A. Just asked me some questions about if I knew a 23 person, you know -- what they call that? Those papers. 24 Death certificates or something. 25 Q. They invited you -- they asked you to come Page 7 1 Q. Is he sitting here today? 2 A. Yeah. 3 Q. Okay. Which gentleman is it? 4 A. At the end. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. Let me see, whose name -- well at the end. 7 Q. Mr. Sanov. 8 Have you spoken to any other attorneys from 9 Kelly-Moore who represent Kelly-Moore? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Who else have you spoken to? 12 A. This gentleman right here. 13 Q. Okay. The other Kelly-Moore attorney who's 14 with us today? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. But it was only 20 minutes. 18 Q. When did you first meet Mr. Sanov? When did 19 you first meet Mr. Sanov? The first attorney. 20 A. Oh, okay. I would say -- I don't know the 21 date but it was about maybe a month ago or something. 22 Q. And how did you meet him? 23 A. How did I meet him? I don't even remember. I 24 think they were going to make a report or something. That's 25 how I met him. Pag 1 over to ask you about if you knew a person. Who was that 2 person? 3 A. Paul Whitlock, which he was a real good friend 4 of mine. 5 Q. And did they ask you -- did they tell you 6 there was going to be anything else discussed at that 7 meeting? 8 A. No. Not really. You know, it was just... 9 Q. Who was there when you went to Mr. Valdez's 10 house? 11 A. Just the gentlemen, my -- Frank and me and 12 Art. 13 Q. Any other former workers from Union Carbide? 14 A. No. 15 Q. And how long did you meet that day? 16 A. Gee, less than an hour. 17 Q. Do you recall what you discussed? 18 A. Just asked me some questions, that's all. 19 Q. What questions did they ask you? 20 A. Just if I knew these -- this person, and I 21 said yes. Then he asked me if I knew another person, I said 22 yes. Then he just asked me some questions about, you know, 23 how is work over there, that's it. Probably the same kind 24 of questions you will ask me. 25 Q. Who was the other person they asked you about? COMPANY> WITNESS> Page 30 1 inside, you know. As long as it wasn't in the bagging 2 room -- when I started there you could smoke anywhere in the 3 plant, except the two bagging rooms. And then after awhile, 4 I don't know how many years, they banned it from -- no, 5 first they tried to stop you from smoking, you know, they 6 would say don't smoke. But then, you know, you would have 7 to go outside the gate and smoke. 8 Q. Okay. Do you know why they were telling 9 people not to smoke? Did they explain why? 10 A. I guess you get lung cancer. 11 MR. FERNANDEZ: Don't guess. Did they say why. If 12 that's what they said you can answer his question but don't 13 guess. 14 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. 15 MR. DUBIN: Q. Did they explain why, do you recall 16 them explaining why? 17 A. Go through that again. 18 Q. Do you recall them ever explaining that one - 19 the reason you shouldn't smoke if you worked in an asbestos 20 facility was because asbestos and smoking together could 21 increase your risk of lung cancer? 22 A. It could increase. But let me put it this 23 way, they said that our asbestos wasn't harmful. And 24 that -- that was told from the beginning. 25 Q. Who told you that? Page 1 Q. Did they explain why you should take 2 precautions if the asbestos was safe? 3 A. I thought I answered that question. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. I said only - 6 MR. FERNANDEZ: Maybe -- could you repeat your 7 question. 8 MR. DUBIN: Sure. 9 Q. I am trying to say if they told you the 10 asbestos was safe, did they explain why you would have to 11 take precautions, like respirators? 12 A. Well, we had our respirators but if there was 13 precaution why did people -- when I went in the bagging room 14 they would explain everything with me, to me without the 15 respirator, you know. Inside the bagging room when I first 16 started there. 17 Q. I am just trying to understand, I am sorry if 18 I am not being clear, but if - 19 A. It is probably not you, it is probably me that 20 I don't understand. 21 Q. No. 22 MR. FERNANDEZ: Listen to him. You are doing fine. 23 MR. DUBIN: Q. Yeah, you are doing fine. I am 24 sorry if I am not being clear. 25 I am trying to understand if they told you the Page 31 1 A. My main guy was Kronkhyte. 2 Q. Kronkhyte told you that? 3 A. Yeah, he is the one who hired me. 4 Q. When did he tell you that? 5 A. When I first started. 6 Q. When -- did he tell you that during training? 7 When did he tell you? 8 A. Well, I guess during training it must have 9 been because that's when I went in there to train for maybe 10 a day or four hours, and then they put me out in ship -- in 11 the shipping as a laborer. 12 Q. What exactly did he say to you? 13 A. I don't remember. 14 Q. Did he explain to you that certain types of 15 asbestos were harmful? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. What type - 18 A. Long fibers. And our asbestos was something 19 that it was short and it was -- I don't know what -- what 20 name -- crystal something. I don't know what it was but 21 that's what they said, it wasn't bad. 22 Q. Did they tell you that you shouldn't take any 23 precautions around this asbestos? 24 A. Precaution? In the bagging rooms. Just 25 don't -- wear your respirators. Page 1 asbestos was safe, why did -- did they explain why they were 2 requiring you to wear a respirator? 3 A. Oh. Probably it was mandatory by the 4 government for -- I don't know. It had to be something like 5 that for the government. They would take samples and all 6 that. 7 Q. Did they explain to you why if their asbestos 8 was safe they were not allowing smoking? 9 A. Oh, they allowed smoking at the beginning. 10 Q. Okay. Did they explain to you why if their 11 asbestos was safe they decided to eventually ban smoking at 12 the facility? 13 A. That was years, way before. I mean, that was 14 years before they cut that off. 15 Q. Do you recall they banned smoking in 1977? 16 A. It was '77? 17 MR. FERNANDEZ: He is asking if you remember 18 whether it was '77. 19 THE WITNESS: No, I don't remember it was '77, no. 20 Because maybe it was banned in the bagging rooms or 21 something like that but not in the outside because they used 22 to smoke. And when they told you not to smoke anymore they 23 would go out there and try to see if they could catch you, 24 just -- if they didn't like you they tried to catch you. If 25 they liked you they didn't care. COMPANY> WITNESS> Page 54 1 A. He didn't tell me nothing about my scan. He 2 just said I was all right. But that wasn't the spot. He 3 never told me nothing about my scan. 4 Q. And do you have any plans to go back to him 5 again soon? Did he ask you back in for follow-up? 6 A. Not for the scan, no. I am not going to ask 7 him for the scan because I already got the report, you know, 8 what the scan says. And that's why I can tell you for sure 9 he never told me nothing about it. 10 Q. And you don't have that with you today, I take 11 it? 12 A. No. 13 Q. What do you recall the report saying, of the 14 scan? 15 A. Well, I had scarring, some scarring and 16 some -- I can't tell you because I don't know the words. 17 It's some buildup on one side because -- there is some 18 words, I don't even know what they are so I can't tell you. 19 Q. That's fine. 20 All right. Let's talk -- you said originally when 21 you went to meet with some of the lawyers you talked about 22 Paul Whitlock. You remember that? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Paul Whitlock is somebody that used to work at 25 KCAC? Page 1 report? 2 A. What did they tell me exactly? I can't 3 remember exactly what they said but -- let me see. That 4 he -- that he died probably of asbestos or something like 5 that, but I told them, you know, it probably was the heart 6 because that's what he went in for. I can't remember 7 exactly the words. 8 Q. He went in for a heart surgery and he died 9 about a week and a half later? 10 A. No. No. Oh, no, no. He had a heart attack 11 and he didn't go to work for awhile, I don't know how long. 12 Then he went back to work but his leg was always getting 13 red. And they were swelled up. So then he stopped again 14 and he just not work, you know, he would just stay around 15 town. Then he -- they took him to Stanford. And when I 16 went and visit him, you know, he was -- he was -- I mean, he 17 was puff. You know. And I knew he wasn't too good, looking 18 too good. But -- because I knew all along that -- when he 19 died I was a pallbearer. 20 MR. FERNANDEZ: Pallbearer. 21 THE WITNESS: And when he died I was a pallbearer 22 for him. And you know, I didn't know his mom that good but 23 I talked to him a little bit. And the way I heard through 24 the company is that they took an autopsy on him and they 25 didn't have -- he didn't die of asbestosis, so that was -- I Page 55 1 A. KCAC. He was one at the beginning who started 2 there. 3 Q. A good guy? 4 A. Well to us he was a good guy but there were 5 some shifters they didn't like him. 6 Q. And what did you discuss about Paul Whitlock? 7 A. With the lawyer? 8 Q. Yeah, with the lawyers from Kelly-Moore. 9 A. Well, I can't say exactly the words I told 10 them but I -- I think I told them he was a good friend of 11 mine; that I saw him at Stanford when he passed away. And 12 you know, what else. That I lived with him one month or 13 three weeks; that he had a heart attack at the beginning so 14 he had some bypasses. They took a vein from his leg -- I 15 don't know if I told them that. They took a vein and his 16 legs would get red. I don't think I told them that. I 17 think at the end they took an autopsy on him I told them I 18 think. 19 Q. Did they tell you anything about his death? 20 Did they try to give you any information about what they 21 thought about his death? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Okay. What did they tell you? 24 A. That they got a report on him. 25 Q. Okay. And what did they tell you about that Page 1 think that's what I told them, you know. 2 MR. DUBIN: Q. Did you ever hear that he had an 3 autopsy over in Santa Clara County? 4 A. I don't know where he had it. If he had one. 5 All I know is, you know, the company told us that he died 6 because they took an autopsy. 7 Q. King City is not in Santa Clara County? 8 A. No. Santa Clara is up on top of San Jose. 9 Q. So you didn't know -- did you know that 10 Mr. Whitlock had had heart surgery again very recently 11 before he died? Did you know that? About a week and a half 12 before he died. 13 A. Before. Well they probably were trying to 14 make him better. I know I went over there to Stanford to go 15 see him. Because like I said, I lived with him for three 16 weeks or a month. 17 Q. Was John Myers also a pallbearer at his 18 funeral, do you know? Do you recall? 19 A. Let me see. You know, I don't know if he was 20 a pallbearer there. I don't know. I know he was there on 21 other people that died that he was driving the -- the -22 MR. FERNANDEZ: Hearse? 23 THE WITNESS: The hearse. I seen him driving the 24 hearse. 25 MR. DUBIN: Q. He worked at the local funeral COMPANY> WITNESS> Page 62 1 Q. Do you recall discussing anything about Union 2 Carbide with him recently? 3 A. Well we had talked about it just, you know - 4 the reason why because when I got that examination, man, he 5 was hey, you got asbestosis. I said no, the doctor didn't 6 tell me I had nothing. No, no, no, no, that's what this is, 7 scarring. I said no, I'm okay. The doctor didn't tell me 8 nothing. So then, you know, just for my protection, you 9 know, I contacted him. 10 Q. Did you receive Mr. Fernandez's name from 11 Mr. Valdez, is that how you contacted Mr. Fernandez? 12 A. No. No. I didn't get it from him. No. 13 Q. Who did you get his name from? 14 A. I can tell him that. We got it from -- see, 15 this is the way we got it because see, this lawyer, you 16 know, my son he is not a good -- I am not going to say he's 17 a bad kid - 18 MR. FERNANDEZ: He just wants to know how you got 19 my name. Short and sweet. 20 THE WITNESS: Well, I have to - 21 MR. FERNANDEZ: You don't have to talk about your 22 family. 23 MR. DUBIN: Q. You don't have to talk about your 24 family unless it's necessary to answer the question. 25 A. Okay. Miguel Hernandez, because he was a Page 1 behaved towards its customers, whether it informed them of 2 the health risks of asbestos or anything like that? 3 A. I don't know anything about them. No. 4 Q. Okay. So why are you willing to help them 5 out? 6 MR. HAINES: Object to the form of the question. 7 MR. DUBIN: Q. You can answer. 8 A. What's that? 9 Q. Why would you be willing to help them out in a 10 case when you don't know whether they had done bad things? 11 MR. HAINES: Object to the form of the question. 12 MR. FERNANDEZ: Do you know if you are going to be 13 helping anybody if you testify? 14 THE WITNESS: No. I am just telling the truth. 15 They just asked me if I could testify. 16 MR. DUBIN: Okay. I think that's it for right now. 17 Thank you very much for your time. 18 MR. HAINES: I'm going to ask you a few questions. 19 I don't have a lot to ask you. 20 MR. DUBIN: Do you want to take a short break or 21 you want to go through? 22 THE WITNESS: It don't matter to me. 23 MR. DUBIN: Let's go ahead. 24 /// 25 /// Page 63 1 lawyer for my son. And he is -- he was a lawyer for Art's 2 son too. So you see. 3 Q. So Mr. Hernandez gave you Mr. Fernandez's 4 name? 5 A. Right. 6 Q. And are you paying your lawyer, Mr. Fernandez, 7 any money? 8 A. I hope not. No. I mean, I haven't got 9 charged anything yet. 10 MR. FERNANDEZ: You haven't seen the latest bill. 11 MR. DUBIN: Maybe I should get you out of here 12 quickly. 13 Q. Have the lawyers from Kelly-Moore talked to 14 you specifically about actually coming down to Texas to 15 testify in a trial? They asked you about that at all? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Have you told them whether you are willing to 18 travel to Texas to testify? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And what did you tell them? 21 A. Well, I said I -- I mean, I can go. I mean, 22 if they -- I mean, this is just a -- I mean, tell the truth, 23 you know, whatever -- I'm not out there -- I am not here to 24 lie or nothing. I'm not telling you any lies. 25 Q. Do you know anything about how Kelly-Moore Page 1 EXAMINATION BY MR. HAINES 2 MR. HAINES: Q. Tell me, where did you grow up, 3 sir? 4 A. Yuma, Arizona. I was born in Mexico. I was 5 adopted to my aunt and my uncle when I was seven. I moved 6 to Yuma, Arizona with my aunt and my uncle that they adopted 7 me. And then when -- when I got married in '71, I moved 8 back to Mexico, and that was -- I lived there in Mexico for 9 two -- almost two years. Then I lost my job over there. 10 Then my wife's parents, they were working over here in the 11 fields in Greenfield and were at some camp. So we came over 12 here to visit, and then we decided to stay because my wife 13 said I wasn't doing nothing over in Yuma so she said we 14 might as well go over there to put you to work. So that's 15 where I came. 16 Q. So you have been here almost 30 years since 17 then? 18 A. Yes. I came over here. I was on Welfare and 19 I was going to this school, learning mechanics, you know. 20 So then I heard about the job, KCAC, and since I was living 21 here in the King City Motel, I went over there. The bus 22 driver that was taking me to Salinas, took me and he helped 23 me put the application in Union Carbide. He helped me fill 24 it out and that's -- that's how I been there. 25 Q. And you've been married since what, 1971 you COMPANY> WITNESS> Page 66 1 said? 2 A. Yeah. 3 Q. How many children do you have? 4 A. Three. And one granddaughter. 5 Q. Any great grandkids yet? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Now you worked at the Union Carbide plant from 8 1974 to about 1985; is that right? 9 A. Yeah. 10 Q. And then it changed over to a different 11 company that kept running it? 12 A. Right. 13 Q. I want to try to focus on those first 11 years 14 when Union Carbide was running the plant. Okay? 15 A. Uh-huh. 16 Q. You talked a little bit earlier about the 17 bagging area. 18 A. Uh-huh. 19 Q. Describe for me a little bit what a bagger 20 would do. How did a bagger do his job? 21 A. Okay. This is the person, not the bagger? 22 Q. Yes, sir,the person. 23 A. Okay. When I first started there? 24 Q. Yes, sir. 25 A. Okay. It was an open bagger. This is 244. Page 1 vacuum cleaner and it had socks inside, so every time you 2 fill it up, you had to open the door and then reach in there 3 and clean all the socks so it can drop all the material down 4 to the bucket so it could suck with. Otherwise you 5 wouldn't -- if it is not operating right it won't vacuum 6 right. So you have to clean the socks. Because sometimes 7 they were over filled, the hopper on the bottom. 8 Q. Did you also have to sweep up, was this like a 9 regular broom to clean up asbestos? 10 A. Yes. And then after awhile they -- like I 11 said, they improved. We put water hoses. 12 Q. When you first started, did you just wear a 13 mask that you would throw away or was it one you kept and 14 used over and over again? 15 A. Well, you would use it, the mask. The one we 16 had in the beginning we put it on and we used it and threw 17 it away. You know, but at first -- you know, they used to 18 tell me, you know, the more it's plugged up the better it 19 will filter. So you know. It would stop -- what he meant 20 was it would stop the asbestos from going in. Because they 21 would plug it up more if you use it for longer. Because - 22 and it would save money also. 23 Q. Did it make it hard to breathe when it was 24 plugged up like that? 25 A. Well, you know, to tell you the truth no, Page 67 1 Q. Yes, sir. 2 A. Okay. I put the bag in, it would clamp -- the 3 bags would clamp and start filling up. Okay. When it 4 filled up to ten pounds -- it was ten something, and I took 5 the bag out, I put in another thing and I push it -- I put 6 it inside and push it and it would flatten it. Okay. Then 7 I take the bag out, I turn it around, put it the other way 8 and I push it again and it would flatten it out. So I had 9 to flatten it out, you know, more or less so I could put it 10 in a bag. Then you put it in a bag and then you seal it. 11 And then you stack it. 12 Q. Okay. And you -- that one person did all of 13 that? 14 A. Right. And then you have to -- when you stack 15 it up on the pallet, then take it to the shipping department 16 over there and you just put it right there and then you go 17 back and do another pallet. 18 Q. Did these bags that were filled with asbestos 19 sometimes pop? 20 A. Like I mentioned to him, if you weren't a good 21 operator and you didn't regulate the air right or sometimes 22 the bags weren't glued right, they would pop. Because if 23 you put too much air pressure they would just blow it and... 24 Q. What happens when they popped? 25 A. You got dust all over. And then we had this Page 1 because I -- I mean, I was young at that time. I had a lot 2 of power. So it -- I could breathe through it, you know, 3 pretty good. So I would save it for a week, you know, then 4 a week I would get another one. So what you do is just take 5 it off, we had this little plastic bag, put it in the 6 plastic bag and put it in your back pocket. 7 Q. And you had overalls. Did they give you 8 overalls when you first started to work? 9 A. Yeah. We had white ones. When I first 10 started maintenance had one color and the mill had white 11 ones. 12 Q. Did you wear the overalls over your regular 13 street clothes? 14 A. Over my regular street clothes. 15 Q. And at the end of the day you would take the 16 overalls off and leave them in a locker? 17 A. Right. 18 Q. And then go home in the clothes you came in? 19 A. Right. Some people would take their shoes 20 home but I always -- that I remember I used to -- maybe not 21 in the beginning but most of the time I just left them 22 there, changed shoes. That's -- most -- maybe 50 percent of 23 the people would take their shoes home. 24 Q. Okay. Did you ever have to go clean up any of 25 the houses that had used asbestos in their attic for COMPANY>