Document NeKVxbqd8jdKQv4BjywB1rpMg

FILE NAME: RT Vanderbilt (RTV) DATE: 1991 Oct 24 DOC#: RTV251 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Legal - Deposition o f Charles P. M inckler [See Pg. 23] STATE OP NEW YORK SUPREME COURT ST. LAWRENCE COUNTY CHARLES P. MINCKLER and REGINA A. MINCKLER, Plaintiffs, VS R. T. VANDERBILT COMPANY, INC., ET AL, Defendants. Deposition of CHARLES P. MINCKLER taken on October 24, 1991 at the Law Offices of Setright, Ciabotti and Longstreet, 313 Montgomery Street, Syracuse, New York 13202. APPEARANCES: For the Plaintiff: SETRIGHT, CIABOTTI & LONGSTREET 313 Montgomery Street Syracuse, New York 13202 BY: MICHAEL LONGSTREET, ESQ. For the Defendants: (R.T. Vanderbilt & Gouverneur -Talc )__ SUGARMAN, WALLACE, MANHEIM & SCHOENWALD 49.9 S . W a r r e n . S t r e e t ---------------------------------- Syracuse, New York 13202 BY: SAMUEL VULCANO, ESQ. DAVID KALABANCA, ESQ. JOHN KELSE, ESQ. For the Defendants: (St. Joe Minerals & Fluor Corporation) MACKENZIE, SMITH, LEWIS, MICHELL & HUGHES 600 Onondaga Savings Bank Building Syracuse, New York 13202 BY: AVA RAPHAEL, ESQ. CORPORATE REPORTERS, INC. 1 Madison Boulevard Canastota, New York 13032 (315) 697-5211 AAAAEROBV LAWYER'S NOTES -i1 2 INDEX 3 4 WITNESS: 5 CHARLES P. MINCKLER 6 Examination by Mr. Longstreet 7 Examination by Mr. Vulcano 8 Examination by Ms. Raphael 9 Further Examination by Mr. Longstreet 10 Further Examination by Mr. Vulcano 11 PAGE 2 - 33 33 - 63 63 - 64 64 - 66 66 - 66 12 13 14 15_ 16 EXHIBITS 17 Exhibit 5 18 Exhibit 6 19 Exhibit 7 20 E-X- H - I-- MARKED -24-52-52- IDENTIFIED -24-54-52- 21 22 23 24 25 2 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 (It was stipulated by and between counsel for 3 the respective parties that this Examination 4 Before Trial be held pursuant to the provisions of 5 the Civil Practice Law and Rules, that the signing 6 and filing of the minutes are waived, that the 7 witness may be sworn by Christine M. Tamilia, 8 Notary Public, and that all objections, except 9 those as to form, are reserved until the time of 10 trial.) 11 CHARLES P. MINCKLER. called as a 12 witness, having been duly sworn, testifies as 13 follows: 14 EXAMINATION BY 15 HR._LQNGSTEEU___________________ _____________________ 16 MR. VULCANO: We probably ought to say the 17 stipulations will be the same as the deposition of 18 Mr. William M. Fuller that was just completed. 19 MR. LONGSTREET: You should know, Sam, before 20 we get started, Larry brought x-rays here this 21 morning that he got from the company, x-ray 22 reports. I don't know if you have them. 23 MR. VULCANO: I don't have them with me. 24 MR. LONGSTREET: I think we have the physical 25 reports here, too, that Charlie got for himself so -- 3 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 MR. KELSE: You picked them up from Bonnie? 3 WITNESS: I got them from Doug, well, Doug 4 and Bonnie both. 5 MR. VULCANO: Is that the stuff? 6 MR. LONGSTREET: I think it's stuff you asked 7 for previously but we just got it this morning. 8 MR. VULCANO: Is this an extra copy? 9 MR. LONGSTREET: No, you have it. 10 MR. VULCANO: I don't know whether I have it 11 with me. 12 (An off the record discussion was held.) 13 MR. LONGSTREET: Here's some more stuff, too. 14 I don't know what it is, it has something to do -- 15 _____ MR. VULCANO: This is stuff Mr. Minckler_____ 16 brought with him today? 17 MR. LONGSTREET: Right, but we can get going 18 while the copies are being made. 19 MR. VULCANO: She can do these, too. 20 MR. LONGSTREET: The other thing you should 21 know, Charlie is hard of hearing. 22 MR. VULCANO: Okay. 23 MR. LONGSTREET: So, you have to speak up, he 24 has to be looking at you sometimes when you talk. 25 4 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 EXAMINATION BY 3 MR. LONGSTREET: 4 Q Would you state your name and address for the 5 record? 6 A Charles Peter Minckler, Box 86, Edwards, New York 7 13635. 8 Q Where were youborn? 9 A Lyon Mountain. 10 Q Where is that in relation to the Edwards, 11 Gouverneur area? 12 A Oh, 60 miles east or 75 miles east. 13 Q How many brothers and sisters do you have? 14 A I have seven brothers and three sisters. 45- -- -- Q--- Are your parents latirll-al-ive ?-------------------- 16 A No. 17 Q Your brothers and sisters still alive? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Are they all healthy? 20 A Uh-huh. 21 Q Are any of them -- Strike that. 22 Have any of them been miners? 23 A All but one of the boys. 24 Q Where did your brothers work? 25 A Republic Steel, Lyon Mountain, Limeville. I got 5 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 one that worked at Gouverneur Talc. 3 Q What is his name? 4 A Warren. 5 Q Does he have any lung problems? 6 A Yes. 7 Q When did he stop working there? 8 A When did I? 9 Q No, Warren, when did he stop? 10 A I think it was June of this year he retired. 11 Q How old is he? 12 A Sixty-six. 13 MR. VULCANO: Age sixty-six? 14 WITNESS: Right. 45- --- Q----What I s -your wife's `name? -- 16 A Jane. 17 Q How long have you been married to Jane? 18 A Thirty-eight years. 19 Q How old were you when you got married? 20 A Eighteen. 21 Q Never been divorced? 22 A No. 23 Q Do you have any kids? 24 A Yes, four. Two boys, two girls. 25 Q Are they healthy? 6 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 A Yes. 3 Q Where do they live? 4 A One lives in Harrisville, one in Pitcairn, one 5 lives in Richville and one lives in Herman. 6 Q How far did you go inschool? 7 A Eighth grade, no, tenth grade. 8 Q Where was that? 9 A Lyon Mountain. 10 Q Do you know whatyear you left school? 11 A '51. 12 Q Could you tell usbriefly your work history prior 13 to your employment with the Gouverneur Talc Company? 14 A Well, I worked at Norstar Service Station, gas 4 5 - station, then I went to Pub lic Steel;-- I worked for------- 16 Pre-Stress Steel, Crucible Steel, I worked down there, 17 worked at Clinton County Highway Department, I worked for 18 the Town of Ellenburg Highway Department. I worked for 19 A1 Cola, I think that's about it. 20 Q How old were you when you started working at 21 Gouverneur Talc Company? 22 A Twenty-six. 23 Q And the jobs you had before you started working 24 there, were you in any dusty environments? 25 A Not really, working on the roads and stuff down 7 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 there. I worked at Pre-Stress Steel as a laborer. 3 Q There was some dust? 4 A There was some but nothing, you know, you had 5 respirators. 6 Q Do you smoke? 7 A No. 8 Q Have you ever smoked? 9 A No. 10 Q Have you ever tried smoking? 11 A Probably showing off a couple times. 12 Q When you were akid? 13 A Yes. 14 Q How did you come to get a job at the 4 5 - Gouverneur Talc -C o m p a n y ? -------------------- --- ------ 16 A Well, my brother worked there, he told me to go 17 down there because they were hiring and I went down. 18 Q Did they give you a physical when you started 19 working there? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Do you know what the results of that physical 22 were? 23 A Must of been okay, I went to work. 24 MR. VULCANO: Object to that as being 25 non-responsive. 8 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 Q Did anybody tell you what the results of the 3 physical were when you first started working? 4 A No. 5 Q Did they give you a chest x-ray when you first 6 started working there? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Did they tell you what the results of that were, 9 the first chest x-ray? 10 A No. 11 Q What job did you have at Gouverneur Talc? 12 A Laborer and trammer. 13 Q Could you tell us briefly what you did as a 14 laborer and how long you had that job? -45- --- A---- T-worked in the yard up on top, moved steel____ 16 around, cleaned up the yard, I held that job for two, 17 three years. Then I went tramming, trammed around the 18 stopes and stuff. 19 Q In your job as a laborer, was it dusty? 20 A No. 21 Q You said you had a job as a trammer. Tell us 22 briefly -- 23 A Scraping ore in the yards and stuff, then 24 sometimes I took it -- sometimes I used the Emco car. 25 Q What is an Emco? 9 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 A Emco is when a shovel runs underground on the 3 track. 4 Q How long did you have your job as a trammer? 5 A Twenty-six years, around, you know. 6 Q Did you work at any particular mine? 7 A Worked in Number 1 most of the time. 8 Q When you say Number 1, where is that? 9 A Belmont. 10 Q That's the one right across from the main office? 11 A Right. Sometimes I worked at Talcville when they 12 were short handed, vacations I worked up there. 13 Q The Talcville Mine, did that have a number on it? 14 A I think it was Number 3, I am not sure. 15 Q What did you do when you worked at Talcville or 16 Number 3 Mine? 17 A Trammer, door -- scrape door. 18 Q Down in the mine? 19 A Uh-huh. 20 Q Was it dusty down in that Talcville Mine? 21 A It was dusty in all the mines. 22 MR. VULCANO: Objection, non-responsive. 23 Q Was the dust different -- Strike that. 24 Was the amount of dust different down in that 25 Talcville Mine than it was in the Number 1 Mine? 10 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 A I wouldn't say so. 3 Q When did you work in that Talcville Mine? 4 A I think it was around '74, '75, in there. 5 Q Can you tell us about how long you worked in that 6 mine, weeks? 7 A Probably a week, this time a couple weeks, 8 probably work a week or couple days. I don't think I ever 9 worked over two weeks at a time over there. 10 Q Do you have an idea as to if you added up all 11 those weeks you worked there, how much time you worked in 12 the Talcville Mine? 13 A I wouldn't say it was six weeks, if I worked there 14 that long. 15 ____ Q Did you wear a respirator when you, were..wracking,------ 16 down in the mines? 17 A I wore a respirator since 1974 all the time. 18 MR. VULCANO: All the time? 19 WITNESS: All the time. 20 Q When you say all the time -- 21 A Except for lunch, you know, or if I was in the 22 dining room. 23 Q What was your normal day or normal custom in 24 practice, when would you put the respirator on? 25 A When I went underground. 11 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 Q You'd keep the respirator on for how long? 3 A Until just about when I come off. 4 Q Would you have to change your respirator from time 5 to time? 6 A Sometimes. 7 Q How often would you have to do that? 8 A Probably two, three times a day I'd change it. 9 Q Can you tell us what kind of respirator you wore? 10 A I wore this one for one or that one over there, 11 that goes in this box. 12 Q You're referring to a box that says it's been 13 marked as Exhibit 2, Moldex 2200? 14 A I wore those, I wore those over there, too. 15 _____________ MR. VULCANO: Just for the record, Mike, that 16 is Exhibit 2 from William Fuller's deposition. 17 MR. LONGSTREET: Marked 10/24/91. 18 Q You're saying that this Moldex 2200 is the type 19 you wore primarily or most of the time? 20 A Most of the time. 21 Q Did you have a preference for this type? 22 A Yes, they were better than that other. 23 Q The other one is what? 24 A That one right there. 25 Q This is Exhibit 1 dated today's date, 3M dust and 12 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 mist respirator. You're saying that the Moldex is a lot 3 better than 3M? 4 A Uh-huh. 5 Q How many of these would you go through in a day, 6 these repirators? 7 A Those things, sometimes you could use them two 8 days, all depends on where you were. 9 MR. VULCANO: Just for the record, I want to 10 make sure I know what he is talking about. The 11 disposable respirator? 12 WITNESS: This one right here. 13 MR. LONGSTREET: The Moldex 2200, right? 14 THE WITNESS: Yes. 15 Q Are you saving that the more dusty it was, the 16 more frequently you had to change your respirator? 17 A Oh, yeah. 18 Q Would you wear any other protective equipment when 19 you were down in the mines? 20 A Ear plugs. 21 Q What else? 22 A Hard hat, boots, safety belt. 23 Q Would you wearglasses? 24 A Yes, I had to wear glasses. 25 Q Did you have any problem wearing glasses and a 13 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 mask at the same time? 3 A Uh-huh. 4 Q Could you tell us about that problem? 5 A They never told me I had to wear a respirator, but 6 I had to wear my glasses all the time. Some places you 7 couldn't see from here to that wall, but you didn't need a 8 respirator but you needed your glasses on. 9 Q Well, as far as the problem of wearing both the 10 glasses and the mask at the same time, are you talking 11 about the glasses? 12 A They fogged up on you, you couldn't see nothing. 13 Q Was that something that happened very frequently, 14 did it happen all the time or not very often? 15 A Just when you wore them.___________________________ 16 Q Every time you wore them they were foggy? 17 A Just about every time, you looked down and then up 18 you had to -- 19 Q Could you do your job with your glasses fogged up? 20 A You had to. 21 Q Wearing fogged up glasses? 22 A You had to keep them clean but you had to do it 23 but I always wore the respirator. 24 MR. VULCANO: I am sorry you said you always 25 did? 14 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 THE WITNESS: Right. 3 Q You're saying when you had to choose between 4 wearing a respirator and the glasses -- 5 A I chose the respirator. 6 Q Now, could you describe for us the amount of dust 7 that you would encounter on a typical day down in Mine 8 Number 1? 9 A Well, some days I'd be scraping and this one 10 stope, the ore would fall down the track, you couldn't see 11 from here to that wall for about 3, 400 feet. 12 Q Ten, 12 feet from that wall? 13 A You couldn't see. 14 MR. VULCANO: I object, you asked typical day 15 ________ and he said -- _____________________________________ 16 WITNESS: That is not a typical day. Typical 17 day you could see dust there all the time. 18 Q Some days it's more dustier than others? 19 A Right. 20 Q Were there ever days that there was never dust at 21 all? 22 A Not really, not where I was. I was by the crusher 23 or on the 900 level, the other path goes right by there, 24 you opened up your dinner pal and you had the dust right 25 there. 15 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 Q We will get into what happened in your lunch hour 3 but as far as your normal working days, as far as the 4 areas you had to work, you're saying that was always dusty 5 but the dust levels vary? 6 MR. VULCANO: Objection. 7 A Oh, yeah. 8 Q Could you tell us how effective the respirators 9 were in keeping the dust out of your nose and mouth? 10 A Well, I don't know how effective it was, but it 11 was a lot better than not wearing them. I can't tell how 12 good they were. 13 Q Did they keep all the dust out of your nose and 14 mouth? 15 A Not all of it, but they kept a lot of it out.______ 16 Q As far as the company's position with regards to 17 wearing respirators, are you aware of whether the company 18 had a position at any time? 19 A What is that again? 20 Q What did the company do -- Strike that. 21 What did the company tell you about respirators? 22 MR. VULCANO: Objection. Which company, 23 Mike, Gouverneur Talc -- 24 MR. LONGSTREET: Yes, your employer. 25 A They never told me nothing until later years, like 16 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 '74. They never said you had to wear a respirator. As it 3 got later in years, you had to wear them, but when I first 4 got there, I don't know if they had them but since '74, I 5 know they had them because I wore them all the time. 6 Q Why did you wear them in '74? 7 A I worked with a couple of guys that weren't in too 8 good of shape, sick, most of them dead now. 9 Q Were you sick in 1974? 10 A No. 11 Q Did there come a time when your employer insisted 12 that you wear a respirator, you and the other employees? 13 A Oh, yeah. 14 Q When was that? 15 A I don't know when it was,-but.it was in the SH's__ 16 sometime, you had to wear them in certain places and 17 others you didn't have to. You didn't have to wear them 18 all the time. 19 Q What places would you have to wear them and what 20 places not? 21 MR. VULCANO: This is in the 1980's? 22 THE WITNESS: Yes. 23 A When you were using the Emco or scraping, you were 24 running around a crusher, you had to wear them, that's 25 about it. 17 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 Q Would you have to wear a respirator in the lunch 3 room or would the company tell you to do that? 4 A No, you didn't have to wear them in the lunch 5 room. 6 Q How about when you were going down the elevator? 7 A You didn't have to wear them then either but I did 8 a lot of the times, most of the times. 9 Q Was it possible for you to wear your respirator 10 and eat your lunch at the same time? 11 A No. 12 Q Was there dust in the lunch room? 13 A A lot of the times there was, yeah. 14 Q Could you describe for us what the dust was like 15 in the lunch room? _________ ________________________ 16 MR. VULCANO: Objection. 17 Q Just tell us what you remember seeing in the lunch 18 room as far as the dust. 19 A You had a lunch table a little bigger than that 20 one there, there was dust, you had to dust the table off. 21 Q Was there dust in the air? 22 A Well, there was sometime or another in order to 23 get on them tables. 24 Q As far as once you got out of the mine, on a 25 typical day, was it dusty in the area where you got out of 18 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 the mine? 3 A Yes, my car was dusty all the time inside, even 4 with the windows up it didn't matter. 5 Q Where would you park your cars? 6 A Right across from the corner house where the ore 7 goes from the mine to the mill, right across the driveway 8 from that in the parking lot. 9 Q So, you're only a few hundred feet from the front 10 door to the office of the Gouverneur Talc Company, that's 11 where you parked? 12 A Yes, right across the road. 13 Q And every day your car would be dusty on the 14 outside? 15 A No, not every day._________________________________ 16 Q How often would it be dusty? 17 A Two, three times a week or sometimes every day 18 during the week when the wind was blowing right. Then, 19 there were times they wet the ore down more, it wasn't 20 dusty. 21 Q Did anyone at the Gouverneur Talc Company ever 22 tell you that the talc was harmful? 23 A No. 24 Q Did anyone at the R.T. Vanderbit Company ever tell 25 you that the talc was harmful? 19 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 A No. 3 Q Do you recall having some sort of device on your 4 person which tested the air around you? 5 A Oh, yeah. 6 Q How often was that done? 7 A I think they comearound quarterly. 8 Q Do you know when they started doing that? 9 A Not really, no. 10 Q Could you describe for us the device that was 11 used? 12 A Well, they'd have a pump on your belt, you had a 13 thing here sucking dust in there to see -- they had 14 filters in there, little filters, some two hour, some one, 15 some eight-hour filters. They'd have a_thing on your back- 16 for noise level, a thing on your collar, that is all I 17 ever wore down there. 18 Q Now, when you were wearing those devices, I don't 19 know what you want to call it, were you assigned to 20 different areas of the mine? 21 A Oh, yeah. They'd send you different places. 22 Q Could you tell us what places they would send you 23 when you were wearing the dust collectors? 24 MR. VULCANO: Is this on some particular 25 occasion or in general? 20 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 MR. LONGSTREET: In general. 3 MR. VULCANO: I object on foundation. 4 A They send you to the cleanest places, they don't 5 send you where it's loaded up with dust but they put it on 6 when you worked the crusher and that crusher was dusty. 7 Q Do you have a recollection, as you sit here today, 8 of the times when you were wearing the dust collector? 9 Any specific times? 10 A No. 11 Q Who were some of the other fellows you worked with 12 over the years at Gouverneur? 13 A Carl Matthews, Harold Aye, John Conklin, 14 Bill Fuller, Ed Tario, Ed Flemmings, Ely Shippy, I can 15 .keep going on,-- there is a lot of them I worked with,-- a let 16 of guys. 17 Q Okay. Were you aware whether any of those fellows 18 have pulmonary problems as a result of the dust? 19 MR. VULCANO: Objection. 20 A Yes, pretty near all of them. 21 Q Did the Gouverneur Talc Company conduct physicals 22 on a regular basis? 23 A We either had the physicals every year or the 24 x-rays every two years or the x-rays every year and the 25 physical every two years or whatever, in the later years. 21 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 Q Who were the doctors that did the physicals? 3 A I think Dr. Dodd did most of them, Dr. Wright, 4 there was a Dr. Fung who did one on me, Dr. Vanslig did 5 the first one, there might have been more in between 6 there, I don't know. 7 Q Were those doctors your personal physicians or 8 were they employed or engaged by someone else? 9 A No, they come from Gouverneur Talc, Vanderbilt or 10 whoever hired them. Dr. Dodd is my family physician. 11 Q But when he did the physicals, was it something 12 you asked him to do? 13 A No, he did it for the company. 14 Q Did any of those doctors tell you of problems that _15_ -you--were having--w4th-your-lungs or your pu lmonary system?-- 16 A No. 17 MR. VULCANO: Objection. 18 Q Any time prior to August of 1989? 19 MR. VULCANO: Objection. 20 A No. 21 Q Did any of those doctors tell you, prior to 22 August of 1989, that you didn't have a problem with your 23 lungs or pulmonary system? 24 MR. VULCANO: Objection. 25 A No. 22 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 Q Did any of those doctors reveal the results of the 3 physical or the x-rays taken on behalf of the 4 Gouverneur Talc Company? 5 A No. 6 Q Have you ever been hurt -- Strike that. 7 Before August of 1989, had you ever been hurt? 8 A Yeah, I hurt my back or shoulder blade or back, 9 broke a couple of fingers, other than that, there hasn't 10 been nothing too serious, never missed any time. 11 Q When you say you hadn't missed any time, could you 12 be more specific about that? 13 A Well, I hadn't lost a days work in 23, 24 years, 14 something like that. I hadn't missed a day of work. JLSl. --- Q---- Prior -to August- of- '-89?---- ------------------- ---- 16 A Right. 17 (An off the record discussion was held.) 18 Q Have you ever met a fellow by the name of 19 Hugh Vanderbilt? 20 A I never met him personally, but I saw him. 21 Q When did you first see Mr. Vanderbilt? 22 A Well, he walked through the mine a few times and I 23 saw him in the carpenter shop. 24 Q Could you describe for us the circumstances 25 surrounding the time you saw him in the carpenter shop? 23 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 A Well, that is when he was having a lot of trouble 3 about the fibers or asbestos or something. He came up and 4 talked to us, there was pieces in the paper where it 5 didn't look too good for Vanderbilt and all this stuff or 6 Gouverneur Talc. He told us not to worry about it because 7 everything was under control. 8 Q Can you tell us specifically what you remember him 9 saying to you? 10 A Well, he said he was gonna work -- he spent a lot 11 of money trying to get this fiber, asbestos or whatever he 12 was calling this, taken care of, spent fifteen, 13 twenty million dollars on it, I guess he said if that 14 didn't work, he knew somebody that could help him out -15 pretty good.--- --------- --- -------------------------------- 16 Q Who was that? 17 A Some senator, he said -- I am not mentioning no 18 names, he said he had him right here. 19 Q When you say had him right here, you're pointing 20 to your back pocket? 21 A That's right. 22 Q How many people witnessed that speech that 23 Mr. Vanderbilt gave? 24 A Well, all the miners were there, the day shift, 25 all the millers were there, the day shift, I think all the 24 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 pit was there, but I am not sure, it was an open pit. 3 Q Were you ever told by anyone at the company 4 whether the product was asbestos or not? 5 A Nobody ever told me nothing about it. 6 Q Did there come a time in early 1989 when you made 7 an inquiry of somebody at the company concerning your 8 lungs? 9 A Yeah. 10 Q How did that come about? 11 A Well, I -- they sent one guy to Ogdensburg to some 12 specialist for his lungs. I couldn't breath so I asked 13 them if I could go. So, he said he didn't know if I could 14 go or not but he'd write to somebody that could let him 45- -knowi-- He-^wrote to Connecticut-"" somebody;-- they reviewe d - 16 my file, he said I couldn't go, there was nothing wrong 17 with me. 18 Q Who were you dealing with when you made that 19 request? 20 A Doug Beshardt (ph). 21 Q Who is he? 22 A Personnel Manager. 23 (An off the record discussion was held.) 24 (WHEREUPON EXHIBIT 5 WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.) 25 Q Charlie, I am showing you Exhibit 5 for 25 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 identification. What is that set of documents? 3 A This is what Doug sent down to see if I could go 4 get the physical, this is what I got back. 5 Q Did you read this over back in 1989? 6 A Yeah. 7 Q Now, there is a reference in the first page here -- 8 MR. VULCANO: Just before you start to read 9 or refer to them, so I don't put a standing 10 objection to any reading from or reference to 11 those documents, they're not in evidence. 12 Obviously there is nobody here to accept them into 13 evidence. There is no foundation to make those 14 that anyways. _UL _ __________ MR. LONGSTREET: I will just ask him a few 16 questions about the documents. 17 Q There is a reference in here to a Dr. Bolecky. Do 18 you know who that doctor is? 19 A I never saw him. 20 Q Did that doctor ever contact you? 21 A No. 22 Q Who told you that you wouldn't need further 23 medical attention? 24 A Well, Doug sent all that stuff back over from the 25 mill to me. 1 26 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 MR. VULCANO: Object to the last question. 3 Q Did you have a conversation with Mr. Beshardt 4 about the condition of your lungs or the need for future 5 medical attention? 6 A Yeah. 7 Q What did he tell you? 8 A He said he had contacted this guy to see if I 9 needed it and if I needed it, he'd recommend it. 10 Q After that conversation, did he tell you whether 11 you needed further medical attention or not? 12 MR. VULCANO: Objection. 13 A He said I didn't need it. 14 Q Prior to August of 1990, did you ever seek medical 45- -attention from ynnr nwn_persona1 physician for -- _________ 16 A No. 17 Q -- heart or lung problems? 18 A No. 19 Q When was the last time, prior to August of 1989, 20 that you had seen a physician for any medical problem, 21 other than the company's doctors? 22 A I don't know when it was, probably when I broke my 23 fingers. I never been to the doctors, probably the last 24 physical I had, that was the last time I seen a doctor. 25 Q Did there come a time in August of 1989 when you 27 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 went to see a physician? 3 A Yeah, I went to see Dr. Lax. 4 Q That's Dr. Michael Lax here in Syracuse? 5 A Right. 6 Q When did you see Dr. Lax? 7 A I think it was August 10th of '89. 8 Q What did Dr. Lax do for you? 9 A Well, he said I had a heart attack for one thing, 10 he sent me to Dr. Ashruf, he did a physical on me, sent me 11 back here to St. Joe's Hospital for catheterization. 12 Q Who performed the catheterization? 13 A Dr. Mark Reger. 14 Q Did there come a time that you found out the 15 results of the catheterization?__________________________ 16 A Yeah, that same day, I had to -- then they made an 17 appointment for surgery. 18 Q Who did the surgery? 19 A Dr. Isaac Levy. 20 Q When was the surgery done? 21 A September 28, 1989. 22 Q Did there come a time after the surgery that you 23 sought medical attention for your lungs? 24 A I still go to Dr. Ashruf every month or two 25 months 28 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 MR. VULCANO: Just object for non-responsive, 3 you asked him about lungs. 4 Q Does he treat you for your lungs? 5 A Both, I think. 6 Q Both your heart and lungs? 7 A I think so. 8 MR. VULCANO: That's Dr. Ashruf? 9 MR. LONGSTREET: Yes. 10 Q What has Dr. Ashruf told you about your lungs? 11 A I had talcosis. 12 Q When did Dr. Ashruf first tell you that? 13 A I don't know, when I go up there I try to do the 14 tredmill machine, I couldn't do that. He took me right off, he wouldn't let me do it at a l l . _________ 16 Q This was after your heart surgery? 17 A No, before. They wouldn't let me do that up 18 there, I had to come back down here to try it, Dr. Sipple. 19 Q Dr. Sipple is not your doctor, is he? 20 A No. 21 Q Who is he the doctor for? 22 A Insurance carrier, I think, I don't know who is. 23 Q When did you go see Dr. Sipple? A I don't know if it was in June of '90, probably. Q Other than Dr. Ashruf, have you seen any other 29 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 doctors for your lungs, Dr. Ashruf and Dr. Lax? 3 MR. VULCANO: Object to the form. 4 A No -- Dr. Reger, I seen him. 5 Q Can you tell us what sorts of things you can't do 6 now, that you could do before August of 1989? 7 A A lot of things I can't do, I can't lift nothing, 8 can't pull or push. I can walk. g Q Can you work? 10 A No. 11 Q Has a doctor -- 12 A I will get up in the morning, get breakfast and 13 have to take a nap. 14 Q Has a doctor told you you can't work? 45- --- A--- Y e a h .____________________________ ___________ _______ _____ ______ ______ _ 16 Q Who is that? 17 A Dr. Ashruf. 18 Q How has your lung condition effected the way you 19 live? 20 MR. VULCANO: Objection. 21 A Well, I can't hardly do anything, like I go try to 22 mow my lawn, that's probably a quarter as big as that 23 parking lot, it takes me two hours to mow it. 24 Q How big is it, an acre or two? 25 A My lot is 112 by 104. 30 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 Q Could you describe for us the condition of your 3 lungs as you sit here today? 4 MR. VULCANO: Objection. 5 A Some days my lungs are good, some days I can't 6 breath at all. 7 Q When you say your lungs are good, what do you mean 8 by that? 9 A Well, if it's cool weather and the humidity isn't 10 high, you can breath half way decent, but this summer when 11 it was hot and muggy, you had to go inside where there was 12 air conditioning or a fan or something. 13 Q As far as your ability to be engaged in physical 14 activity, how have your lungs been affected to that? 15 _____________ MR. VTtTr.AWO ; Objection.______________________ 16 A What was that? 17 Q As far as your ability to be engaged in physical 18 activity, how have your lungs been affected to that? 19 MR. VULCANO: Objection. 20 A I just can't do it. 21 Q Can you give us an example of what you can't do? 22 A Before, a cable would break and I couldn't do it, 23 you'd have to break it with a sledge hammer, you couldn't 24 pound it. A lot of times, I'd take a sling and pull it 25 down the drift, they didn't like that too good, I just 31 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 can't do it like I used to do. 3 Q Has your doctor told you whether you should be 4 exposed to dust anymore? 5 MR. VULCANO: Objection. 6 A He never told me. 7 Q Your current doctor? 8 MR. VULCANO: Objection. 9 A He didn't want me around dust at all. 10 Q Could you tell us what a normal day is like for 11 yourself? 12 A Yeah, I get up about 6:30, eat breakfast, take a 13 nap, go get the mail, come back probably take a nap, in 14 the afternoon I go for a walk, take a nap, you know, you 15 just can't do it. I walked 767 miles last year._________ 16 Q Have you had any problems with your heart since 17 the surgery? 18 A No. 19 Q Are you taking any medication? 20 A Yes. 21 Q What are you taking? 22 A Cardizem, Ecotrin. 23 Q What do those drugs do for you? 24 A Well, one of them Ecotrin, I think is an aspirin, 25 and the Cardizem thins your blood, I think. 32 1 MINCKLER ~ LONGSTREET 2 Q Has the talc affected your body in any other way, 3 other than your lungs? 4 MR. VULCANO: Objection. 5 A Not that I know of -- yeah, my fingernails all 6 clubbed up. 7 Q When you say your fingernails clubbed up, what do 8 you mean by that? 9 A Look at them, that is the first thing they look 10 at. 11 Q How long have your fingernails been like that? 12 A Twenty-six years. 13 Q Did any of the doctors tell you that you had 14 clubbing of your fingernails? 4 5 - --- A--- Yeah, L don^-t-know if it -was Dr. Bodd or Dr. -Rodey 16 somebody did, but he never told me but he'd look at them, 17 you know, a couple of them said there was nothing wrong 18 with them. 19 Q You're saying the company doctors looked at your 20 fingernails and saw what you're showing us today and said 21 there wasn't anything wrong with them? 22 MR. VULCANO: Objection. 23 A Yeah. 24 Q What were you making when you were working at 25 Gouverneur Talc? 33 t MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 A I think it was $591 a week. 3 Q Where did you get that number from? 4 A From my compensation cases. 5 Q Do you know how much you were making a year at 6 Gouverneur Talc, the year before you stopped working 7 there? 8 A Probably 32, $33,000, somethinglike that. 9 Q And Mr. Minckler, can you telluswhy you're not 10 working at Gouverneur Talc anymore? 11 MR. VULCANO: Objection. 12 A Yeah, the doctor says I can't work anymore. 13 Q If the doctor said you could work, would you be 14 working? -15- _____________ MR. VULCANO: Objection^---------------- -- -- 16 A I don't think I'd be working there. 17 Q Why is that? 18 MR. VULCANO: Objection. 19 A Because of the dust. 20 MR. LONGSTREET: I don't have anything 21 further, Sam. 22 EXAMINATION BY 23 MR. VULCANO: 24 Q Let me ask you a few questions. I think you said 25 both of your parents have died; is that true? 34 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 A Right. 3 Q What did your mother die of? 4 A They said she had lung cancer, I think she threw 5 up and couldn't get it out of her lungs. 6 Q How about your father? 7 A He was 78 and I think he died of old age. 8 Q Any other heart disease? 9 A Yup, since I had mine, my brother Howard, he's 72 10 years old, I have a brother Ross that had a bypass. 11 Q What was your brother's name again? 12 A Ross. 13 Q Ross? 14 A Right. 15 Q Now, hnw old is Rnss, about?---------------------- 16 A Well, 53 probably. He's retired from the service 17 so -- 18 Q Where did he work before he got sick? 19 A He'd been in the service all the time. 20 Q Which branch? 21 A Amy. 22 Q Did he ever work at Gouverneur Talc? 23 A No. 24 Q Ever work at St. Joe's? 25 A No. 35 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 Q Ever work in a mine? 3 A No, he is the one that didn't. 4 Q He had the same thing done? 5 HR. LONGSTREET: Objection. 6 Q What did you have, quadruple bypass? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Your brother Ross who never worked in the mines 9 had a triple bypass? 10 A Right. 11 Q Where did Howard work? 12 A Lyon Mountain. 13 Q In a mine? 14 A Right. 45- --- Q -- What-type of mine was that? 16 A Iron, ore. 17 Q They don't mine talc at Lyon Mountain, do they? 18 A No. 19 Q He had a heart attack as well? 20 A Yes, he says he did. 21 Q Any other heart disease that you're aware of in 22 your family? 23 A No. 24 Q Sir, when did you start working for 25 Gouverneur Talc? 36 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 A 1960. 3 Q And who was your family physician back in 1960, do 4 you remember? 5 A Well, we moved from Ellenburg, it must have been 6 Dr. -- well, 1960, it was Dr. Dodd down there, but up 7 there -- 8 Q You can't remember? 9 A No. 10 Q Well, let's try it this way. Why don't you tell 11 me the names of the family doctors you can remember having 12 between 1960 and 1989. 13 A Dr. Dodds. 14 Q Now, if I understand your testimony correctly, you 15. saw Dr. Dodds o n more than one--occasion--in-relation to---- 16 being an employee of Gouverneur Talc; is that true? 17 A No, I see Dr. Dodd every day. I went there just a 18 little while ago but he got me out of there. 19 Q In other words, you would go to Dr. Dodds on your 20 own? 21 A If I had a cold or flu shot or something. 22 Q When did you start seeing him as a family doctor? 23 A i960. 24 Q Did you continue to see him as a family doctor 25 whenever necessary up until 1989? 66 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 water down the road every day, lot of days they don't, lot 3 of days they do. 4 EXAMINATION BY 5 MR. VULCANO: 6 Q Mr. Minckler, the questions about wind blown talc, 7 whenever you might have experienced that, would that have 8 been on your way in or out of work? 9 A One of those times, I was in the hole eight hours 10 a day. 11 MR. VULCANO: No further questions. Thank 12 you. 13 (Proceedings were concluded) 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 67 1 2 CERTIFICATION 3 4 I, Christine M. Tamilia, Court Reporter, do hereby 5 certify that I attended the foregoing proceedings, 6 and took stenographic notes of the same, and that 7 the foregoing typewritten matter is a true and 8 accurate transcript of the same, and of the whole 9 thereof, to the best of my knowledge and ability. 10 11 12 13 14 Christine M. Tamilia 1J5 16 DATED:( C tC'H i uT', ( 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 37 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 A Oh, yeah, the kids still go there and everything. 3 Q During the years that you saw Dr. Dodds, between 4 1960 and '89, did he ever say anything to you about losing 5 weight? 6 A Well, they probably all did some time or another. 7 Q Did Dr. Dodds ever say that to you? 8 A I don't think so. 9 Q Anything about your diet? 10 A No. 11 Q Anything about more exercise, cutting down on the 12 amount of fat you ate or red meat, anything along those 13 lines? 14 A No, Dr. Dodds never did. _15_ --- Q-- Who did?----------------------------------- -- ---------- 16 A They told me, Dr. Levy or Reger, one of them. 17 Q That was in 1989? 18 A Right. 19 Q That was because of your heart? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Sir, you mentioned that at some point in time in 22 the last several years, Mr. Hugh Vanderbilt came to the 23 mine? 24 A Right. 25 Q And I think there was a meeting in the carpentry 38 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 shop? 3 A Right. 4 Q You were at that meeting? 5 A Yes. 6 Q Mr. Vanderbilt spoke? 7 A Right. 8 Q And did he speak about -- Strike that. 9 Did he say at that meeting that, if you recall, 10 that he did not believe there was asbestos in the mineral 11 mines at Gouverneur Talc? 12 A Yes, he did. 13 Q Did he say that more than once? 14 A I don't remember how many times he said it. 15 --- Q--- You mentioned that he indicated that he -spent, 1 16 think you said fifteen million dollars or something along 17 that line. Did he indicate that the money he spent, he 18 was spending to try to prove his belief that there was no 19 asbestos in the minerals? 20 A That's the way we took it, I guess. 21 Q You were there and you heard him speak, you 22 observed him, did he appear sincere in that belief? 23 A Yes, he did. 24 Q You left that meeting believing there was no 25 asbestos in that talc? 39 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 A Right. 3 Q That he spent a lot of money to prove it? 4 A Yes. 5 Q Did you understand that to reassure 6 Gouverneur Talc that Mr. Vanderbilt was doing what he 7 could to preserve the business at Gouverneur Talc? 8 A Right. 9 Q People were worried about losing their jobs? 10 A Right. 11 Q Were you worried about losing your job? 12 A Yes. 13 Q And Mr. Vanderbilt came up to reassure people that 14 he was doing what he could to preserve the jobs? 15_ --- A--- Right.--------------------------------------------- 16 Q Now, sir, you started working at Gouverneur Talc 17 in 1960? 18 A Yes. 19 Q And I think you said you were a laborer for a 20 certain period of time? 21 A Yeah, two, three years. 22 Q That is above ground? 23 A Above and below, both, where ever you're needed, 24 you go. 25 Q Was that mostly above ground? 40 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 A Mostly. 3 Q Then you became a trammer? 4 A Right. 5 Q And a trammer is below ground? 6 A Right. 7 Q Now, Mr. Fuller was here today. 8 A Right. 9 Q You saw him? 10 A Right. 11 Q He answered questions before you did. 12 A Yes. 13 Q And you worked with Mr. Fuller from time to time? 14 A Yes. 15 ---Q--- He -was, a- trammer also?----------------------------- 16 A Yes. 17 Q Now, sir, if I understand your testimony 18 correctly, in 1974 respirators were made available for 19 your use by Gouverneur Talc; is that true? 20 A Everyone didn't have to use them, they had them if 21 you wanted them. I wanted one. 22 Q Let me ask you again. Is it true that in 1974 23 Gouverneur Talc made respirators available? 24 A Yes. 25 Q If you wanted to use one, you could? 41 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 A Right. 3 Q You decided to use one? 4 A Right. 5 Q In 1974, respirators were made available, similiar 6 to the respirators that were marked as Exhibit 4 during 7 Mr. Fuller's deposition? 8 A No, I used the other one over there. 9 Q So, would that be the one that is in the bag that 10 is marked as Exhibit 3? 11 A Yes. It'd be this one right here. I don't know 12 what exhibit that is, that is a different respirator than 13 those here. 14 Q Let me ask you a question, sir. Beginning in 4 5 - 19 74-, a respirator similar-to t he one that y ou -took-out of 16 the plastic bag marked Exhibit 3 was available to use if 17 you wanted it? 18 A Yes. 19 Q And the respirator you pulled out from that had a 20 warning and other labels on the front of it? 21 A Right. 22 Q The other one in there, so we can figure it out 23 later, didn't have a warning on the front of it; right? 24 A Right. 25 Q Now, in 1974 when the respirator in the bag marked 42 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 as Exhibit 3 was made available to you, did anyone tell 3 you to use it? 4 A No. 5 Q Tell you you had to use it? 6 A No. 7 Q Nobody forced you? 8 A Right. 9 Q You decided to use it on your own? 10 A Right. 11 Q Why did you decide to use a respirator at that 12 time? 13 A Because, oh, six or seven guys couldn't breath, 14 they were just about dead, you watched their chest and I J5_ didn' t fool that -I was gonna- go-through-that-;-------------- 16 Q They would wheeze? 17 A I guess they would. 18 MR. LONGSTREET: That's not all, you went 19 through a type of breathing. 20 MR. VULCANO: I am describing the fact that 21 Mr. Minckler wheezed, I am not limiting that, that 22 is the only thing he said. 23 MR. LONGSTREET: I didn't think it was 24 wheezing, I thought it was heavy breathing. 25 Q You tell me. How would you describe it? 43 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 A Heavy breathing. 3 Q Now, you would have seen these other gentlemen 4 that you mentioned, who had heavy breathing and you 5 decided that you were going to wear a respirator such as 6 the one in the bag marked Exhibit 3, because you didn't 7 want to have that condition? 8 A That's right. 9 Q So, did you decide to use the respirator to limit 10 the amount of dust that you would breath? 11 A Yes. 12 Q And if I understand your testimony correctly, you 13 didn't miss a day of work in 22 or 23 years? 14 A I probably did lose time when I went to my 4 5 - father 's funeral,- but that's all.-------------------- ----- 16 Q And during that period of over 20 years that you 17 didn't miss a day's work, you wore a respirator everyday? 18 A Since '74. 19 Q Since 1974 until 1989, you wore a respirator 20 everyday; right? 21 A Right. 22 Q And you were working as a trammer? 23 A Right. 24 Q Throughout that period of time? 25 A Right. 44 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 Q Now, as a trammer, you would -- would you have to 3 mine, take broken ore and feed it through the stope, if I 4 am saying that correctly? 5 A Yes. 6 Q Sometimes would a cable break when you did the 7 tramming work? 8 A Yes. 9 Q Would you have to repair that? 10 A Yes. 11 Q That is hard work? 12 A Yes. 13 Q You'd wear your respirator? 14 A Yes. 16 on? 17 A 18 Q 19 time? 20 A 21 Q 22 A 23 Q 24 A 25 Q Yes. Now, sir, you worked with Bill Fuller from time to Yes. And he was a trammer? Right. Mr. Fuller wear a respirator? Not all the time. He'd take it off from time to time? 45 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 A Yes. 3 Q Was there any particular time that he would take 4 it off or not take it off or don't you know that? 5 A He'd take it off to smoke, if he had a cigarette, 6 sometimes he didn't smoke. He'd take it off, we'd talk 7 for a few minutes, sometimes we talked with it on. 8 Q You can't smoke a cigerette with a respirator on? 9 A He didn't smoke hardly at all. 10 Q Okay. Did you ever see Mr. Fuller -- Strike that. 11 You didn't smoke though did you? 12 A Never really have smoked, right, right, showing 13 off I have had a couple bottles of beer in my life but 14 that's it. 15- --- Q----M r . M-inckl-er ,-- did you need anybody to tell you to 16 wear a respirator back in 1974? 17 MR. LONGSTREET: I will object to that. 18 A No, I just wore it. 19 Q It was obvious that you ought to wear it? 20 MR. VULCANO: I object. 21 A Right. 22 Q Now, in your days as a trammer, sir, since 1974 -- 23 Strike that. 24 In your days as a trammer from 1974 on, would you 25 say you worked as hard as any other trammer? 46 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 A Probably worked harder than a lot of them. 3 Q You were a hard working employee? 4 A Right. 5 Q Most of the other trammers wear respirators? 6 MR. VULCANO: I object. 7 A A few of them did. 8 Q Well, did more people wear them or more people not 9 or aren't you able to tell me that? 10 MR. LONGSTREET: I object to that. 11 A More towards the end, towards the later years. 12 Q Let me rephrase the question. 13 MR. LONGSTREET: My objection is about time 14 frame because we're talking about 25, 30 years, .15. -------- something like that;------------------------------- 16 Q Beginning in 1974, did more trammers wear 17 respirators than not? 18 A 1974, I'd say I was about the only one that wore 19 it, then later years the other ones started to wear them. 20 Q I think you testified that at some point in time 21 there was some signs that said you had to wear 22 respirators? 23 MR. LONGSTREET: I will object. 24 A I didn't see no sign, but they posted them on the 25 bulletin board like around the crusher area, you had to 47 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 wear a respirator, if you were scraping, you had to wear a 3 respirator. 4 Q Let me rephrase that. 5 A I don't know about the mill. 6 Q I got confused and I am asking you about the 7 mines. In any event, at some point in time, was there 8 material posted on a bulletin board about wearing 9 respirators? 10 A Just in those areas like 3. 11 Q Crusher? 12 A Crusher. 13 Q Emco? 14 A Emco. J5u -- e-- And scraping?--------------------------------- -- ---- -- --- 16 A And scraping. 17 Q Where was this information posted? 18 A On a bulletin board. 19 Q Where was the bulletin board? 20 A Right by the time clock. 21 Q Above or below ground? 22 A Above ground. 23 Q When that material was posted, did you see it? 24 A Yes. 25 Q Did you read it? 48 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 A Yes. 3 Q Now, the crusher area, the operating an Emco or 4 scraping, are these some of the dustier operations in the 5 mine? 6 A Most of the time. 7 Q Now, if someone didn't wear a respirator in the 8 crusher area, while operating an Emco or while scraping, 9 was there some procedure that would be followed if they 10 were observed not wearing a respirator? 11 MR. LONGSTREET: I will object. 12 A Not really. 13 Q Did you ever see anyone get a warning slip? 14 A Nope. 45- --- Q---- Did you-know what a warning slip is?------------ 16 A Yes. 17 Q Were there warningslips? 18 A I don't think anybody got one. 19 Q Did you see one? 20 A I never got any. 21 Q Did you know if they ever existed? 22 A They said they would give them but I didn't see 23 any. 24 Q Mr. Minckler, at some point in time, did you begin 25 to experience shortness of breath? 49 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 A Yes. 3 Q When was that? 4 A Oh, probably, five, six years before that. 5 Q Five, six before 1989? 6 A Right. 7 Q Now, in 1989 you had a heart attack? 8 A They said I did, I don't know. 9 Q You have been told by your doctors in 1989 you had 10 a heart attack? 11 A Right. 12 Q About five, six years before that you experienced 13 shortness of breath? 14 A Yes. 45- --- Q----Have any of your doctors teld you that your------- 16 shortness of breath is related to your heart problem? 17 A Yes. 18 Q Which doctors told you that? 19 A Dr. Reger -- 20 MR. LONGSTREET: Object to the previous 21 question. 22 A Dr. Ashruf and Dr. Sipple has it on the report 23 there. 24 Q Dr. Sipple I think you said you were sent by the 25 compensation carrier? 50 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 A Yes. Whoever, the State insurance carrier or 3 whatever, nobody I ever saw before. 4 Q Did you ever talk to Dr. Ashruf about whether your 5 heart problem was in any way related to your exposure to 6 dust? 7 A Just that he told me it was. 8 Q He told you what? 9 A He said it was. 10 Q It was related to your exposure to dust? 11 A Right. 12 Q When did he tell you that? 13 A One of my visits. 14 HR. VULCANO: We served Interrogatories and -15- -------- in -answeringr- specif ical4y >-- in--answering the------ 16 Interrogatories that deal with medical injuries 17 being claimed by the Plaintiff, being 18 Mr. Minckler, you have responded by attaching 19 medical records. You produced one additional 20 medical record that I didn't have, dated November 21 27, 1990 from Dr. Ashruf. Do you have any other 22 records from Dr. Ashruf that I don't have? 23 MR. LONGSTREET: No, you have what I have. I 24 don't believe we have Dr. Ashruf's office notes, I 25 think we may have written for them but we didn't 51 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 receive them yet. 3 WITNESS: Doug Beshard should have that. 4 Q Sir, when did you have your bypass? 5 A September 28th. 6 Q 1989? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Was it before that that Dr. Ashruf told you that 9 your heart condition was related to your exposure to dust? 10 A I didn't see him until after that when he sent me 11 to St. Joe's for the catheterization. 12 Q That was before your operation? 13 A Right. I saw him that time, then not until after 14 the operation. 4 6 - --- Q---- Brd-you see him shortly" after the operation?------ 16 A I still see him, I see him steady. 17 Q The first time you saw him after the operation, 18 was that within a few weeks of the operation? 19 A No, because I couldn't go anywhere for fourteen 20 days, I don't know when it was. It was within a month or 21 so I saw him. 22 Q Let me ask you this: A month or so, 23 approximately, after your operation, your bypass, when you 24 saw Dr. Ashruf, is that when he told you that your heart 25 problem was related to your exposure to Gouverneur Talc -- 52 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 MR. LONGSTREET: I will object. 3 A I think so. 4 MR. LONGSTREET: I will object because Sam's 5 talking about your heart problem, I am not sure if 6 we're talking about before, after or if the heart 7 problem has different aspects to it. 8 MR. VULCANO: Could you please mark this? 9 (WHEREUPON EXHIBITS 6-7 WERE MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.) 10 Q Mr. Minckler, I am going to hand you what has been 11 marked for identification as Exhibit 7. That's several 12 pages that is labeled Interrogatories; is that true? 13 A I don't know what you're talking about. 14 Q Is this document labeled Interrogatories? 45- --- A----Right::-- --- --- --- --- -- -- -- -- -- --- ------ -------- 16 Q It's got thesticker that saysExhibit 7 on it? 17 A Right. 18 Q The last page of that document marked Exhibit 7 19 for identification contains a copy of your signature? 20 A Right. 21 Q And just above yoursignature it reads 22 Charles Minckler has read the foregoing first set of 23 Interrogatories and knows the context thereof, that the 24 same is true to his own knowledge except to the matters 25 therein stated and believes to be true. Is that what it 53 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 basically says? 3 A Right. 4 Q Did your attorneys ask you to sign this document 5 at some point in time? 6 A I don't think so. 7 Q You don't recall ever signing this document? 8 A I signed it in front of the notary public, didn't 9 I? 10 Q That is what I am asking. 11 A Yes. 12 Q Have you seen this document labeled Exhibit 7? 13 A I think so. 14 Q Then you signed back here where I just read that 4-5- -says that you believe-what~~is in~ this ttactnneTTt ~to~toe"true? 16 A Right. 17 Q Now, sir, do you know somebody -- are you familiar 18 with some attorneys, Oot and Associates? 19 A Yes. 20 Q Tell me how you're familiar with Oot and 21 Associates. 22 A They handled my compensation case. 23 Q And how were you first referred to Dr. Ashruf? 24 Who gave you that name? 25 A Dr. Michael Lax. 54 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 Q How were you first referred to Dr. Lax? 3 A A lot of guys were going there because they 4 couldn't breath. I think he's a State Medical Examiner, I 5 am not sure. 6 Q Did someone from Oot and Associates suggest to you 7 to go see Dr. Lax? 8 A No, co-workers. 9 Q Let me show you what has been marked as Exhibit 6. 10 I think your attorney showed you a copy. First of all, is 11 that a letter from Dr. Ashruf? 12 A I think so, yeah. 13 Q Does it appear to be addressed to Oot and 14 Associates? 45- --- A----Right------- -- ----------- ------ --- ---- ----------- 16 Q It says it's regarding you? 17 A Right. 18 Q Now, sir, let me read something to you, the first 19 paragraph reads, this is to your attorney, Dear 20 Attorney Oot, Mr. Minckler has coronary heart disease, I 21 do not see any relation between this and his occupational 22 exposure at Gouverneur Talc. 23 A That's what it says there. 24 Q Did Dr. Ashruf ever tell you he didn't see any 25 relation to your coronary heart disease and exposure at 55 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 Gouverneur Talc? 3 A Never told me that. 4 Q He told you just the opposite; is that your 5 testimony? 6 A Right. 7 Q Sir, did you know when you signed Exhibit Number 7 8 that one of the documents that was attached to it and 9 supplied in support of your case was what I now marked as 10 Exhibit 6? 11 A Uh-huh. 12 Q You knew the letter dated November 27, 1990 -- 13 A Right. 14 MR. LONGSTREET: Wait a minute, Sam, you're -45- ------ -- tryrng~t0~impeach "him from-a -copy.-- rf you want to 16 use the original -- 17 MR. VULCANO: You can give him the original 18 unless, Mr. Longstrret, is there some inaccuracy 19 in my Interrogatories that you found? 20 MR. LONGSTREET: There are a couple things 21 there, the first page, there is nothing attached 22 to the actual document, medical-wise. 23 MR. VULCANO: I have been supplied what has 24 been represented to me and Judge Dement (ph) to be 25 Answers to Interrogatories and I am berated about "l 56 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 the fact that I have had them and shouldn't 3 complain about their accuracy. Now, I think 4 you're telling me what I have is not accurate. 5 MR. LONGSTREET: I don't know. I see that 6 yours has a different front page than this, I 7 don't know what happened there. I am just 8 pointing that out because I happened to look over 9 at yours and I also noted on the originals there 10 are no medical records attached to it. I am not 11 sure if the medical records went to you after this 12 was executed because we may not have gotten the 13 medical records until after I signed them, and I 14 don't know whether it was attached to what went to 15 you-- or if*1-it was separated when it went over to--- 16 you. 17 MR. VULCANO: I don't really know that 18 sitting here so I will leave it at that. I guess 19 I would just ask on the record if any of the other 20 Answers to Interrogatories that I have been 21 provided have been ammended or diverse, however, 22 so we are certainly entitled to know which ones 23 are the answers. 24 MR. LONGSTREET: This looks like a clerical 25 difference. The caption on yours has a four on it 57 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 but I think the more significant point that you're 3 making is whether the medical records were 4 attached when he signed. I don't know, I don't 5 think we will ever know and unless you look at the 6 originals and this original does not have medical 7 records attached to it. So, that suggests to me 8 that you might have gotten the medical records in 9 the last shipment. 10 MR. VULCANO: I think these were supplied to 11 me on behalf of Mr. Minckler in support of your 12 client. 13 MR. LONGSTREET: We have given you everything 14 by way of medical records, which I don't think you 45- can sayr~------------------------------------------ 16 MR. VULCANO: And which I haven't said. 17 Q Mr. Minckler, you were no longer working at 18 Gouverneur during 1990, is that true? 19 A No. 20 Q Did you participate in any Gouverneur Talc 21 physicals in 1990? 22 A No. 23 Q I think you testified that from time to time you 24 would see a doctor at Gouverneur Talc, at the request of 25 Gouverneur Talc, is that true? 58 1 MINCKLER ~ VULCANO 2 A When they had the physicals, yeah. 3 Q Did any doctors suggest that you follow with your 4 family physician regarding heart problems or your heart 5 condition? 6 A No. 7 Q At some point in time, I think you said that you 8 asked Mr. Beshardt if you could go see a particular doctor 9 because you were having shortness of breath? 10 A Right. 11 Q When was that about, roughly? 12 A I don't know, it was in April or May, sometime in 13 there. 14 Q Of 1989? 15_ --- A--- Right.---------------------------------------------- 16 Q And what did you say toMr. Beshardt? 17 A He sent one guy down to get a physical. 18 Q Who wasthat, do youremember? 19 A Kenny Simmons, I wanted to know why we couldn't 20 get one, we should be able to get one, too. 21 Q Do you know who the lung specialist was that 22 Mr. Simmons was sent to? 23 A I am not sure, I think it was somebody in 24 Ogdensburg. 25 Q You basically wanted to know if you could have 59 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 y o u r lu n g s lo o k e d a t o r e x a m in e d b y a lu n g s p e c ia lis t ? 3 A R ig h t. 4 Q 5 tru e ? M r. B e s h a rd t s e n t p a p e rw o rk so m ew here; is t h a t 6 A R ig h t. 7 Q He g o t b a c k to yo u and s a id y o u r re q u e s t was 8 tu rn e d down? 9 A R ig h t. 10 MR. LONGSTREET: O b je c t t o th e fo rm . 11 Q W hat d id M r. B e s h a rd t t e l l you? 12 A He s e n t th e m p a p e rs b a c k . 13 Q T h a t is p a r t o f w h a t h a s been m arked as 14 E x h i b i t N u m b e r 5 ? 45- --------f t -- -- Y u p . -- - - ................. .................... - ------- --------------------------------- 16 Q Now, w hen yo u ta lk e d to M r. B e s h a rd t a b o u t h a v in g 17 y o u r c o n s e n t t o g o s e e a l u n g s p e c i a l i s t , d i d y o u e v e r 18 t a l k t o h i m a b o u t a n y h e a r t p r o b l e m ? 19 A No. 20 Q D id y o u e v e r a s k f o r a re v ie w o f y o u r h e a rt? 21 A No. 22 Q Y o u r lu n g s ? 23 A R ig h t. 24 Q He t o ld yo u th a t yo u w e re n o t g o in g to be s e n t to 25 a l u n g s p e c i a l i s t . D i d h e t e l l y o u t h a t y o u d i d n ' t n e e d 60 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 any medical attention whatsoever? 3 A He didn't say. 4 Q He was talkingabout your lungs? 5 A I don't know what he was talking about, he said I 6 was okay. 7 Q Wasn't the subject that you raised with 8 Mr. Beshard your lungs? 9 A Right. 10 Q You didn't tell him about your heart? 11 A Right. 12 Q When Mr. Beshardt got back to you about your 13 request to see a lung specialist, you didn't think he was 14 getting back to you about your heart, right? J-5- --- A--- No-:-------------------------- ------ -- -- -------- 16 Q The whole subject was yourlungs? 17 A Right. 18 Q Mr. Minckler, when you had company physicals from 19 time to time, what did you understand the purpose of those 20 physicals to be? 21 A To see what kind of shapeyou were in. 22 Q In what regard, overall? 23 A Right. 24 Q Did you understand that those physicals were to 25 take the place of a visit to a family doctor? 61 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 MR. LONGSTREET: I object. 3 A I went to a family doctor but he never did a 4 breathing test or hearing test. 5 Q You had a breathing test and ear test? 6 A Right. 7 Q Did you understand that that was to determine 8 whether or not you were having any hearing loss related to 9 your work? 10 A That's what it should have been for. 11 Q Lung problems related to your work? 12 A That's what it should have been for. 13 Q Is that what you understood? 14 A Right. JL5. --- Q-- -- What-elee--was-tested-- at-^fehose--company phys^cats? 16 A They checked your heart, listened to your heart, 17 checked your back, looked at my fingernails. 18 Q Mr. Minckler, where do you live now? 19 A Edwards. 20 Q How far is your home from the Gouverneur Talc Mine 21 that you worked at? 22 A Nine miles. 23 Q 24 now? How long have you lived in the house you live in 25 A Since 1960. 62 1 MINCKLER - VULCANO 2 Q Which is when you started working at 3 Gouverneur Talc? 4 A Right, right about that. I lived in an apartment 5 for a month or two. 6 Q Sir, are you claiming in this lawsuit that you 7 have ever been exposed to any dust from Gouverneur Talc 8 which migrated from the Gouverneur Talc Mines to your home 9 in Edwards? 10 A If it did, it come on my clothes. 11 Q Other than on your clothes? 12 A No. 13 Q In other words, you're not claiming it came in the 14 air from Gouverneur Talc to Edwards? 15 --- A-- -- Right , -no.-- -- -- -------------- ---- --- --- --- ------- 16 Q Sir, you're married, is that right? 17 A Yes. 18 Q Who lives at home with you now, any children? 19 A Just my wife. 20 Q Does your wife smoke? 21 A Yes. 22 Q What does she smoke? By that I mean, I assume she 23 smokes cigarettes. 24 A Winston I think. 25 Q Filtered cigarettes? 63 1 MINCKLER - RAPHAEL 2 Right. 3 Q How long has she smoked? 4 A Twenty years, probably. 5 Q And how much does she smoke? 6 A Probably half pack a day or something like that. 7 Q Anybody else who has lived with you and your wife 8 over the years smoke? 9 A No. 10 Q Your kids didn't smoke? 11 A No. 12 (A short recess was taken.) 13 MR. VULCANO: I have one other question or 14 maybe two. il --- Q----M r . M inckler,-- do you know whether in the course o-f 16 your medical treatment there has been any lung tissue 17 taken, a lung biopsy taken? 18 A I am not sure. 19 Q But as far as you remember, you don't remember? 20 A No. 21 MR. VULCANO: No further questions. 22 MS. RAPHAEL: Just one. 23 EXAMINATION BY 24 MS. RAPHAEL: 25 Q You have never worked for St. Joe's, have you? 1 64 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 A NO. 3 MR. LONGSTREET: I just have a few, they're 4 follow-ups to what Sam asked. 5 EXAMINATION BY 6 MR. LONGSTREET: 7 Q When Mr. Vanderbilt gave his speech, do you 8 remember when you were asked about that? 9 A Yes. 10 Q Did he ever tell you about a Federal Government 11 Study on the issue of whether the product was asbestos or 12 wasn't asbestos? 13 A Never told me. 14 Q Did he tell the workers that the Federal 15 -Government made findings--owhether^-or not the-product-was 16 asbestos or not? 17 A Never told me, never told us that I know of. 18 Q Now, there were questions about where signs were 19 posted, about where to wear a respirator and where not to 20 wear one. Do you know when the signs went up? 21 A '74, '75, '76, one of those years, it was never 22 mandatory to wear them for a long time. 23 Q There were also some questions about exposure to 24 talc outside of the work place. Have you ever been 25 exposed to Gouverneur Talc outside of where you work? 65 1 MINCKLER - LONGSTREET 2 A What do you mean, wind blown talc? 3 Q Yes. 4 A I have driven through windblown talc before. 5 Q Where? 6 A Just going to work or coming back,whether it's 7 dumping the waste or talc down at the meadow. 8 Q When you had to go and come from work, how would 9 you get there? 10 A Well, I'd have to drive right by the property for 11 a mile and a half, two miles down the road. 12 Q What's the name of the road? 13 A 812 and the other road is 58 down and 58 up and 14 812. 15 ---Q---- 812 is the-road that goes by Arnold Pi-t?--------- 16 A That's 58, 812 goes by where it caved in. 17 Q It's your testimony that you have driven through 18 wind blown talc when you go up and down that road? 19 MR. VULCANO: Objection. 20 A Yes. 21 Q How often would you be exposed to wind blown talc 22 going up and down that road? 23 A It's hard to say, sometimes you don't drive 24 through it, sometimes a week at a time, sometimes two, 25 three days it would be wind blown. They were supposed to