Document Ne93Lqk0qjNBzrbXQEpX8KrQy

7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 1 IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 1 TUESDAY, JULY 16, 2002 8:34 O'CLOCK A.M. 2 IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SAN FRANCISCO 3 HONORABLE DIANE ELAN WICK, JUDGE PRESIDING 4 DEPARTMENT NO. 611 -- --5 000 6 VICTOR TRINCHESE, > CASE NUMBER: 400787 3,, 4 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S -- 000--- THE COURT: GOOD MORNING, MEMBERS OF THE JURY. ) 7) PLAINTIFF, ) 5 THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THE TIME IS 6:34. , ALL 16 JURORS ARE PRESENT. COUNSEL ARE PRESENT. 8: -V- ) 9 7 MR. BRYDON, YOU MAY CALL YOUR NEXT WITNESS. MR. BRYDON: YES, YOUR HONOR. RAYBESTOS-MANHATTAN, ET AL > 10 ) 1 ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANT, UNION CARBIDE, WE WILL CALL CARLO 10 MARTINO. 11 DEFENDANT(S) . > 11 THE COURT: MR. MARTINO, IF YOU'D STEP UP TO THE WITNESS ) VOLUME 9 (PAGES 861-922) 12 ) A.M. SESSION 12 STAND, PLEASE. 13 13 THE CLERK: YOU CAN STEP AROUND TO THE CHAIR. RAISE YOUR 14 REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 15 TUESDAY, JULY 16, 2002 14 RIGHT HAND, PLEASE. -- -000------ 15 CARLO MARTINO, 16 17 16 CALLED AS A WITNESS IN THE ABOVE-ENTITLED MATTER, HAVING FIRST 18 APPEARANCES: 17 BEEN DULY SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: 19 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: PHILIP A. HARLEY, ATTORNEY T. SCOTT HAMES, ATTORNEY 13 THE CLERK: YOU CAN BE SEATED. PLEASE STATE AND SPELL 2 0 PAUL, HANLEY HARLEY 1608 FOURTH STREET, SUITE 300 19 YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD. 21 BERKELEY, CA 94710 20 THE COURT: IF YOU WOULD STATE YOUR NAME AND SPELL IT FOR (510) 559-9980 22 21 THE RECORD, MR. MARTINO. FOR THE DEFENDANT: JOHN R. BRYDON, ATTORNEY 22 THE WITNESS: YES. CARLO, C-A-R-L-O. MARTINO, 23 MCKENNA, LONG S ALDRIDGE STEUART STREET TOWER 23 M-A-R-T-I-N-O. 24 ONE MARKET 24 DIRECT EXAMINATION SAN FRANCISCO, CA 94105 25 (415) 267-4138 25 MR. BRYDON Q. MR. MARTINO, WOULD YOU TELL THE LADIES 26 REPORTED BY: BRENDA C. FIELDS OFFICIAL REPORTER 26 AND GENTLEMEN OF THE JURY WHERE YOU LIVE? 27 CSR NUMBER 7235 27 A. SUMMERVILLE, NEW JERSEY. 28 26 Q. AND YOU ARE A RETIRED GENTLEMAN; IS THAT CORRECT? BRENDA C., FIELDS, CSR NUMBER 7235 861 863 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 1 INDEX 1 2 WITNESSES 2 3 FOR THE DEFENSE:: DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS VOIR DIRE 3 4 MARTINO, CARLO 4 BY BRYDON 861 919 5 BY HARLEY 903 921 6 7 3 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 lb 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 13 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 26 27 27 26 26 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese A. YES; SIX YEARS. Q. AND FROM WHERE DID YOU RETIRE SIX YEARS AGO? A. UNION CARBIDE PLANT WHICH IS NOW A DOW PLANT. Q. AND THAT WAS LOCATED WHERE? A. IN PITTSKATAWAY (PHONETIC), NEW JERSEY. THE COURT REPORTER: IN WHERE? THE WITNESS: IN PITTSKATAWAY. THE COURT REPORTER: SPELLING? THE WITNESS: I DON'T KNOW. JUST PUT BOUND BROOK. MR. BRYDON Q. SO THAT'S ONE OF THOSE SUBURBS OF THAT BIG TOWN OF BOUND BROOK IS PITTSKATAWAY? A. THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S THE MAILING ADDRESS. Q. AND HOW LONG DID YOU WORK FOR UNION CARBIDE? A. ALMOST 48 YEARS. Q. SO IF WE COULD SET THE TIMEFRAME, ABOUT WHAT YEAR DID YOU GO TO WORK FOR THAT COMPANY? A. 1948. Q. AND YOU WORKED IN THAT COMPANY UNTIL ABOUT 1996? A. THAT'S RIGHT. Q. WOULD YOU JUST TELL THE JURY A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND? A. I WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL IN A SMALL TOWN IN PENNSYLVANIA. AFTER I GRADUATED, I WENT TO CARNEGIE MELLON TO GET A DEGREE IN CHEMICAL ENGINEERING. THAT WAS IN 1944. Q. DID YOU GO ALL THE WAY THROUGH FOUR YEARS TO GET YOUR DEGREE? A. NO. NO. IN 1945, I JOINED THE NAVY AND WAS TRAINED FOR ONE YEAR AS AN ELECTRONICS TECHNICIAN'S MATE. IN FACT, I WAS 862 864 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 1 STATIONED RIGHT HERE IN SAN FRANCISCO FOR ABOUT EIGHT MONTHS. 1 ON THE NAME BAKELITE. AND SO, THEY DECIDED TO CALL EVEN THE 2 Q. YOU ULTIMATELY DID GO BACK TO CARNEGIE AND GOT YOUR 2 THERMO PLASTICS, WHICH ARE NOT REALLY, NOT TECHNICALLY 3 BACHELOR OF SCIENCE DEGREE; IS THAT CORRECT? 3 BAKELITE PRODUCTS, BAKELITE BRAND PLASTICS, AND BAKELITE BRAND 4 A. YES. IT'S IN ENGINEERING. 4 POLYETHYLENE, BAKELITE BRAND POLYSTYRENE. 5 Q. AND ONCE YOU HAD THAT BACHELOR OF SCIENCE DEGREE IN HAND, 5 SO I THINK IT WAS ABOUT THAT TIME THAT EVEN POLYSTYRENE 6 DID YOU GO OUT AND TRY TO GET A JOB? 6 WAS SOMEHOW CONNECTED TO BAKELITE. 7 A. YES. 8 Q. AND WHERE DID YOU GO TO GET YOUR JOB? Q. WELL, WHY DON'T WE DO THIS. THE JURY HAS HEARD FROM LOTS 8 OF WITNESSES ABOUT BAKELITE BUT NOBODY THAT ACTUALLY WORKED 9 A. I HAD SEVERAL OFFERS BUT THE ONE THAT APPEALED TO ME MOST 9 WITH THIS MATERIAL. 10 WAS A JOB OFFER FROM WHAT WAS THEN KNOWN AS THE BAKELITE 10 WOULD YOU TELL THE LADIES AND GENTLEMEN OF THE JURY WHAT 11 DIVISION OF UNION CARBIDE. AND THEY PRIMARILY WORKED ON 11 BAKELITE WAS AS IT WAS MADE AT UNION CARBIDE IN -- LET'S START 12 VARIOUS PLASTIC MATERIALS. 12 WITH YOUR TIMEFRAME, IN THE LATE 1940'S, WITH THE COMPANY? 13 Q. WOULD YOU TELL THE LADIES AND GENTLEMEN OF THE JURY WHEN 13 A. DO YOU WANT ME TO DESCRIBE WHAT BAKELITE IS? 14 YOU ARRIVED AT UNION CARBIDE IN ABOUT 1948, WHAT WAS THE 14 Q. YEAH. FIRST, JUST TELL THE JURY WHAT BAKELITE IS AND HOW 15 BAKELITE DIVISION OF THAT COMPANY? 15 IT DIFFERS, SAY, FROM JUST A NORMAL PLASTIC? 16 A. DO YOU MEAN WHAT PRODUCTS WERE MADE THERE? 16 A. WELL, BAKELITE IS A REGISTERED TRADEMARK FOR THE FIRST 17 Q. YEAH. JUST TELL THE JURY A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT THE 17 SYNTHETIC POLYMER THAT WAS EVER INVENTED. 18 BAKELITE DIVISION OF UNION CARBIDE, WHAT THEY WERE DOING 18 IT WAS INVENTED BY DOCTOR BAKELAND, AND THAT'S HOW WE GET 19 THERE? AND THEN I'LL ASK YOU WHAT THEY HIRED YOU TO DO. 19 THE BAKELITE. BAKELITE WAS DERIVED FROM HIS NAME. HE GOT HIS 2 0 A. IT WAS PRIMARILY A MANUFACTURING FACILITY. AND THE 20 FIRST PATENT ON THAT MATERIAL IN 1910. 21 RESEARCH LABORATORIES WERE IN BLOOMFIELD, NEW JERSEY. 21 NOW BAKELITE IS A POLYMER MADE FROM PHENOL AND 22 THEY HAD JUST STARTED MOVING THE RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT 22 FORMALDEHYDE. AND INITIALLY, THAT WAS ALL IT WAS INTENDED TO 23 PEOPLE TO BOUND BROOK. THE NEW RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT 23 EE. 24 BUILDING OPENED JUST ABOUT THE TIME I JOINED THE COMPANY. 24 WHAT DOCTOR BAKELAND DISCOVERED WAS A WAY OF REACTING THE 25 MY INITIAL ASSIGNMENT WAS AS A PRODUCTION TRAINEE. I WAS 25 PHENOL FORMALDEHYDE IN A WAY THAT YOU FORMED A LONG POLYMER 26 SUPPOSED TO BE IN THE PRODUCTION DEPARTMENT. 26 CHAIN. 27 AND I WAS TRAINED FOR ABOUT A YEAR, WHICH CONSISTED OF 27 NOW THINK IN TERMS OF A TYPICAL CHAIN WITH LINKS TOGETHER. 26 GOING FROM DEPARTMENT TO DEPARTMENT IN THE MANUFACTURING 28 WHAT HE SUCCEEDED IN DOING WAS FINDING A WAY OF GETTING EACH 865 867 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 1 DEPARTMENT AND LEARNING EXACTLY WHAT WAS BEING DONE THERE. 1 OF THESE RINGS, WHICH WOULD BE THE PHENOLIC GROUP, TO LINK TO 2 AND AT THAT LOCATION THEY MADE PHENOLIC RESINS AND 2 ANOTHER PHENOLIC GROUP THROUGH THE FORMALDEHYDE UNITS. 3 PHENOLIC MOLDING MATERIALS, VINYL PRODUCTS. THEY WERE MAKING 3 SO YOU HAD PHENOL, FORMALDEHYDE, PHENOL, FORMALDEHYDE IN A 4 POLYSTYRENE. AND EVENTUALLY, THEY ALSO MOVED SOME 4 LONG CHAIN AND THAT HAD NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE. 5 POLYETHYLENE THERE. IT WAS ONE OF THE MAIN FACILITIES. 5 PHENOL FORMALDEHYDE WERE AVAILABLE BACK IN THE 1800'S AND 6 Q. AND THESE ARE WHAT ARE GENERICALLY REFERRED TO AS 6 PEOPLE ALWAYS CAME UP WITH GUNK WHEN THEY TRIED TO REACT THEM. 7 PLASTICS? 8 A. YES, THEY ARE. 7 WELL, THAT WAS REALLY THE BEGINNING OF THE PLASTIC 8 REVOLUTION. 9 Q. THIS WAS A PLASTIC ARM OR DIVISION OF THE UNION CARBIDE 9 NOW IN THAT LONG LINEAR FORM, YOU REALLY HAVE A MATERIAL 10 CORPORATION BACK IN THE 1940'S THAT YOU JOINED INITIALLY TO GO 10 THAT CAN BE MELTED, AND THEN IF YOU LET IT COOL, IT WILL 11 IN AND WORK IN THE PRODUCTIONASPECT? 11 BECOME SOLID AGAIN BECAUSE IT'S A THERMO PLASTIC. 12 A. THAT'S CORRECT. 12 AND IT WASN'T VERY USEFUL IN THAT FORM. SO WHAT HE ALSO 13 Q. WHAT EXACTLY DID THEY HIRE YOU TO DO? YOU WERE OUT OF 13 DISCOVERED WAS THAT IF HE ADDED ANOTHER CHEMICAL, WHICH WE 14 COLLEGE. YOU'RE GETTING A JOB. WHAT WAS IT THAT YOU WERE 14 CALLED HEXA. 15 INITIALLY GOING TO DO FOR THE COMPANY IN PRODUCTION? 15 Q. WHAT IS THAT? 16 A. INITIALLY, THE INTENTION WAS THAT I WAS TO BE A PRODUCTION 16 A. HEXA. HE FOUND THAT HEXA WOULD REACT WITH THE POLYMER AND 17 ENGINEER AND RECEIVE ASSIGNMENT IN ONE OF THE UNITS THERE. 17 LINK THESE LONG LINEAR CHAINS TO EACH OTHER. AND NOW YOU HAVE 18 BUT THERE WAS A RECESSION IN 1949, AND THE COMPANY DECIDED 18 NOT JUST THESE LONG LINEAR CHAINS, WE HAVE A CROSSLINK FENCE 19 THAT THEY DIDN'T NEED AS MANY PEOPLE FOR THE PRODUCTION AREA 19 AND THAT NOW IS A THERMOSET. 20 AS THEY ORIGINALLY THOUGHT THEY DID. AND THREE OF US WERE 20 YOU CAN'T MELT IT BECAUSE IT DOESN'T DISSOLVE IN ANYTHING 21 ASKED IF WE WOULD ACCEPT A POSITION IN THE RESEARCH AND 21 AND IT ACTUALLY DOESN'T BURN; SUPPORT COMBUSTION. IT WILL 22 DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT. 22 CHAR. 23 AND I LIKED WHAT I SAW; SO I DID ACCEPT THE POSITION. AND 23 NOW THAT DID HAVE USEFUL PROPERTIES AND THEN THAT BEGAN 24 I STARTED IN A PRODUCT GROUP IN THE POLYSTYRENE AREA. 24 THE -- TRIGGERED A SERIES OF EVENTS WHICH REVOLUTIONIZED THE 25 Q. AND DID YOU ULTIMATELY FIND YOURSELF WORKING IN THE 25 INDUSTRY IN THE NEXT 25 YEARS. 26 RESEARCH AREA IN A DIFFERENT TYPEOF PRODUCT; THE BAKELITE 26 THE INITIAL APPLICATIONS WERE WITHOUT ANY FILLERS IN IT AT 27 LINE OF PRODUCTS? 27 ALL. 26 A. YES. WELL, AT THAT TIME BAKELITE WAS TRYING TO CAPITALIZE 28 JEWELRY WAS A VERY -- ONE OF THE FIRST APPLICATIONS. 866 868 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 1 IF YOU GO ON THE INTERNET AND DO A SEARCH ON BAKELITE, YOU 1 PHENOL FORMALDEHYDE, THE HEXA, I THINK THAT YOU DESCRIBED IT, 2 GET A LOT OF REFERENCES TO PLASTIC BAKELITE JEWELRY. 2 AND YOU PUT THAT TOGETHER WITH THIS CHAIN LINK, YOU GET A HARD 3 DENTURES. IN FACT, AT ONE TIME BAKELITE CORPORATION HAD A 3 MATERIAL. BUT WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT THERMOSET IF YOU TRY TO 4 SUBSIDIARY CALLED THE BAKELITE DENTURE COMPANY. 4 PUT A MATCH TO THAT? 5 CIGARETTE HOLDERS. PIPE STEMS. 5 A. IT WILL CHAR BUT IT WON'T BURN. 6 THEN THEY FOUND SOME OF THE APPLICATIONS DIDN'T WORK OUT 6 Q. IS THAT ONE OF THE SIGNIFICANT DISTINCTIONS BETWEEN THE 7 TOO WELL BECAUSE THIS CROSSLINK RESIN, EVEN THOUGH IT HAD SOME 8 STRENGTH IN SOME APPLICATIONS LIKE LITTLE RADIO CABINETS, IT 8 THERMOSET TYPE OF PLASTICS AND JUST THE TRADITIONAL THERMO PLASTICS? 9 WAS NO STRONGER THAN, SAY, A GLASS COFFEE CUP. YOU DROP IT ON 9 A. WELL, THE TRADITIONAL DIFFERENCE IS ONE WILL MELT AND THE 10 THE FLOOR, IT BREAKS. 10 OTHER WILL NOT. THE PHENOLICS ARE UNIQUE IN THAT THEY DON'T 11 AND I THINK THAT'S THE TIME WHEN THE TERM CHEAP PLASTIC 11 SUPPORT COMBUSTION. THEY JUST CHAR. 12 WAS STARTED. 12 NOW SOME OF THE OTHER THERMOSETS WILL BURN. POLYESTER 13 FORTUNATELY, THERE WERE SOME VERY INNOVATIVE ENGINEERS 13 WILL BURN AND SUPPORT COMBUSTION. SO FORTUNATELY, PHENOLICS 14 WORKING ON THE MATERIAL AND THEY DID DEFINE THAT IF YOU DID 14 HAD BOTH CHARACTERISTICS. 15 ADD SOME REINFORCEMENT TO THE PRODUCT, YOU COULD FURTHER 15 Q. YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT ADDING CHEMICALS TO MAKE THIS 16 EXTEND THE RANGE OF PROPERTIES THAT YOU COULD GET WITH IT. 16 THERMOSET OR THIS MATERIAL THAT DOESN'T BURN. WE'RE NOT 17 AND THEY ALSO FOUND THAT THE PHENOLIC RESIN WAS AN 17 TALKING ABOUT ADDING THINGS LIKE WOOD FLOUR OR ASBESTOS AT 18 EXCELLENT GLUE. IT WOULD STICK TO ALMOST EVERYTHING. SO MOST 18 THIS POINT; ARE WE? 19 OF THE APPLICATIONS THAT WERE DERIVED FROM IT WERE THE RESULT 19 A. NO. I DIDN'T GET TO THAT POINT. DID YOU WANT ME TO GET 2 0 OF ITS EXCELLENT ADHESIVECHARACTERISTICS. 20 INTO THAT? 21 ONE OF THE APPLICATIONS THAT EVERYONE WOULD BE FAMILIAR 21 Q. NO. WE WILL GET THERE IN A WHILE. JUST TO UNDERSTAND 22 WITH IS PLYWOOD. PHENOLIC RESIN IS USED TO GLUE THE VENEER 22 THIS CONCEPT OF A HARD THERMOSET PLASTIC IS A COMBINATION OF 23 SHEETS TO EACH OTHER AND IT HAS A VERY GOOD WATER RESISTANCE; 23 CHEMICALS, SORT OF IN ITS PRISTINE STATE, THAT GENERALLY WILL 24 SO IF YOU LEAVE THE BOARD OUT, IT'S NOT GOING TO FALL APART. 24 25 ANOTHER APPLICATION WAS ADHESIVES. IT WAS BETTER THAN ANY 25 NOT MELT AS OPPOSED TO OTHER KINDS OF PLASTICS THAT WOULD MELT? 26 OF THE OTHER ADHESIVES THAT WERE AVAILABLE THERE; SO IT WAS 26 A. THAT'S CORRECT. AND IT ALSO HAS A VERY GOOD INSULATION 27 USED IN THE FURNITURE INDUSTRY AS AN EXCELLENT ADHESIVE. 27 CHARACTERISTIC. BOTH. WELL, PARTICULARLY ELECTRICAL 26 VARNISHES. IT WAS A NEW DIMENSION. IT WAS BETTER THAN 28 INSULATION. 869 871 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 1 ANY OTHER VARNISHES THAT WERE ON THE MARKET; SO YOU END UP 1 Q. NOW YOU HAD COMMENTED THAT IN TERMS OF THE HISTORY OF THIS 2 WITH MARINE VARNISHES AND VARNISHES FOR GYMNASIUM FLOORS, AND 2 INVENTION OF THIS MATERIAL, THAT DOCTOR BAKELAND PATENTED IT 3 SO FORTH. 3 BACK IN 1910. 4 Q. MR. MARTINO, WE'LL TALK ABOUT MORE SPECIFIC APPLICATIONS 4 WHEN YOU CAME TO UNION CARBIDE IN 1948 HAD IT ACQUIRED 5 LATER ON IN TESTIMONY. BUT IF I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'VE 5 DOCTOR BAKELIN'S COMPANY? WAS IT PART OF UNION CARBIDE AT 6 DESCRIBED HERE IS THIS PHENOLIC AND FORMALDEHYDE COMBINATION 6 THAT TIME? 7 DEVELOPED WHICH YOU CALLED A THERMOSET AS OPPOSED TO SOMETHING 8 THAT WAS CALLED A THERMOPLASTIC? 8 A. YES, IT WAS. THE ACQUISITION OCCURRED IN 1939. Q. AND IN THE TIME THAT YOU CAME TO THE COMPANY, DID UNION 9 A. YES. I BETTER GO BACK. I MENTIONED THESE LONG LINEAR 9 CARBIDE OWN A PATENT ON THIS THERMOSET THAT YOU'VE DESCRIBED? 10 CHAINS. AS LONG AS YOU DIDN'T LINK THEM TOGETHER, THAT'S A 10 MR. HARLEY: OBJECTION. LACKS FOUNDATION. 11 THERMO PLASTIC. YOU CAN HEAT IT. IT MELTS. COOL IT, IT WILL 11 THE COURT: DO YOU KNOW, SIR? JUST ANSWER YES OR NO. 12 BECOME A SOLID AGAIN. IF YOU MAKE A MISTAKE, YOU MELT IT AND 12 THE WITNESS: THE PATENT HAD EXPIRED IN 1927. 13 MOLD IT ALL OVER AGAIN. 13 MR. BRYDON Q. SO THERE WAS NO PATENT ON THIS PHENOLIC 14 BUT IF YOU DO ADD THE CROSSLINKING AGENT, YOU DO GET THIS 14 THERMOSET MATERIAL IN 1948 WHEN YOU CAME TO WORK IN THE 15 CHAINLINK FENCE. AND THEN WHATEVER YOU GET MOLDED OUT OF IT, 15 BAKELITE DIVISION OF UNION CARBIDE? 16 THAT'S IT. IF YOU MADE A MISTAKE, YOU JUST GRIND IT UP AND 16 A. THAT IS CORRECT. 17 THROW IT AWAY. 17 Q. NOW AT THE TIME THAT YOU WENT TO WORK FOR UNION CARBIDE 18 Q. THESE THERMO PLASTICS, IF YOU WERE TO PUT A MATCH TO A 18 CORPORATION, THEY WERE MAKING THIS KIND OF PHENOLIC RESIN 19 THERMO PLASTIC, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN? 19 MATERIAL THAT WAS BEING SOLD TO MANUFACTURERS OF END USE 20 A. IT WILL MELT. THAT IS A VERY GOOD TEST. IF YOU ARE 20 PLASTICS; IS THAT CORRECT? 21 INTERESTED IN FINDING OUT IF ONE OF THE PLASTIC ARTICLES 21 A. YES. THERE WERE TWO BUSINESSES REALLY. THE ONE BUSINESS 22 AROUND YOUR HOUSE IS A THERMO PLASTIC OR A THERMOSET, HEAT IT 22 IN ONE SIDE OF THE PLANT JUST MADE RESINS, BOTH LIQUID AND 23 UP A LITTLE BIT. 23 SOLIDS. THE SOLIDS WERE GROUND INTO A FINE POWDER LIKE A 24 Q. IT MAKES KIND OF A STINKY MESS, I ASSUME? 24 FLOUR. AND THERE WERE NO FILLERS ADDED TO THAT. AND ALL OF 25 A. YES. BE CAREFUL. ALSO, IT WILL BURN. BE CAREFUL ABOUT 25 THOSE WERE SOLD DIRECTLY TO CUSTOMERS WHO THEN TOOK AND MADE 26 THAT TOO. 26 ALL THESE OTHER MATERIALS THAT I DESCRIBED EARLIER. 27 Q. THEN YOU TALKED ABOUT THIS THERMOSET, THIS PRODUCT OR 27 THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PLANT WE HAD WHAT WE CALLED A 26 MATERIAL THAT DOCTOR BAKELAND INVENTED? IF YOU TOOK THIS 28 MOLDING MATERIAL PLANT WHERE WE MADE RESIN, BUT THEN WE GROUND 870 872 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 1 IT AND ADDED OUR OWN FILLERS AND PROCESSED THEM THROUGH AND 1 AND THE PHENOL FORMALDEHYDE WOULD BE FED INTO THESE VATS 2 CAME UP WITH WHAT IS KNOWN IN THE INDUSTRY AS PHENOLIC MOLDING 2 TO GET THE OTHER REACTION. 3 MATERIAL. 3 AND AFTER THE REACTION WAS COMPLETED, YOU WOULD TAKE THIS 4 AND IT LOOKS -- YOU TAKE IT OUT OF A BAG. IT LOOKS LIKE A 4 MOLTEN MASS THAT WAS IN THERE AND POUR IT OUT INTO BIG PANS 5 BLACK OR A DARK BROWN COARSE SAND. AND THEN THAT IS SOLD TO A 5 WHICH WERE PROBABLY ABOUT 4 FEET BY 8 FEET. 6 MOLDER WHO THEN FORMS A VARIETY OF PARTS: ELECTRICAL PARTS. 6 AND THE MATERIAL WOULD BE ALLOWED TO COOL IN THOSE PANS 7 YOU KNOW, STEAM IRON HANDLES, WASHING MACHINE AGITATORS. AND WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE WOULD BE AN AMBER COLORED GLASS 8 THESE ARE TYPICAL. POT HANDLES, TOASTER END HANDLES. 8 LIKE MATERIALS. MOST OF THE TIME IT WAS TRANSPARENT. 9 A VARIETY OF AUTOMOTIVE PARTS. A VARIETY OF ELECTRICAL 9 AND AFTER IT COOLED, IT WOULD BE BROKEN UP AND THEN FED TO 10 PARTS. ANY COMPLICATED SHAPE THAT IF YOU MADE IT FROM A BLOCK 10 GRINDERS AND FORMED INTO A POWDER; OR IT WOULD BE DISSOLVED IN 11 OF MATERIAL WOULD REQUIRE A LOT OF LABOR TO MACHINE THAT 11 A LIQUID AND SOLD AS A LIQUID RESIN. THAT WAS THE EXTENT OF 12 SHAPE. 12 IT IN THE RESIN AREA. 13 THE MOLDING PROCESS AND DOCTOR BAKELIN'SINVENTION ENABLED 13 Q. SO FOR A RESIN, IF SOMEBODY WAS MAKING A PRODUCT THAT THEY 14 US TO MAKE RADIO CABINETS, JUST LIKE THAT, AND REPLACE WOOD 14 WANTED TO USE THIS BAKELITE RESIN FOR, THEY WOULD GET IT 15 THAT REQUIRED A LOT OF EXTRA HAND LABOR. 15 EITHER IN A BAG THAT HAD BEEN GROUND UP IN A GRANULAR FORM OR 16 Q. LET'S GO BACK TO THE 1948/1950TIMEFRAME. YOU HAVE COME 16 THEY WOULD GET IT IN SOME KIND OF A LIQUID; CORRECT? 17 TO UNION CARBIDE. YOU'RE IN BOUND BROOK, NEW JERSEY. 17 A. THAT'S RIGHT. I THINK THEY COULD ALSO GET THE POWDERED 18 I GUESS, JUST TO BE COMPLETE. BOUND BROOK, IS THIS NEAR 18 MATERIAL IN A DRUM. 19 NEW YORK? IS THIS THE MIDDLE OF THE STATE? WHERE ARE WE 19 Q. BUT IT WAS EITHER IN A POWDER OR A LIQUID FORM? 2 0 TALKING ABOUT? 20 A. RIGHT. AND THE LIQUID FORM WAS USUALLY SHIPPED IN A STEEL 21 A. IT'S IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STATE. 21 DRUM. 22 Q. OKAY. WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF NEW JERSEY. YOU'VE GONE TO 22 Q. AND THIS KIND OF PRODUCT WOULD BE USED BY WHAT KIND OF 23 WORK FOR UNION CARBIDE. THEY ARE MAKING THESE PHENOLIC RESINS 23 COMPANIES? WHAT KIND OF COMPANIES WOULD UNION CARBIDE BE 24 AND PHENOLIC MOLDING COMPOUNDS AT BOUND BROOK. 24 SELLING THE PHENOLIC RESIN MATERIAL TO? 25 IN THE UNITED STATES, WAS THERE ANYWHERE ELSE THAT UNION 25 A. THE PLYWOOD COMPANIES. THE LAMINATORS. THE COATING 26 CARBIDE WAS MAKING THOSE PRODUCTS WHEN YOU CAME TO WORK FOR 26 MANUFACTURERS. ADHESIVES MANUFACTURERS. FOUNDRIES. 27 THEM? 27 ONE OF THE USES WAS TO MIX THE PHENOLIC RESIN WITH SAND 26 A. THE PHENOLIC MOLDING MATERIALS WERE ALL MADE IN BOUND 28 AND FORM MOLDS, AND THEN THEY USED THOSE MOLDS FOR MOLTEN 873 875 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 1 BROOK; NO PLACE ELSE. THE PHENOLIC RESINS WERE MADE AT ONE OF 1 STEEL TO CAST A PART. 2 THE OTHER PLANTS ON THE WEST COAST AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER WE 2 Q. YOU MENTIONED LAMINATORS. WOULD THESE BE THE KINDS OF 3 MADE THEM AT MARIETTA OR NOT. 3 COMPANIES THAT IF THEY WANTED TO MAKE A PRODUCT OUT OF THIS 4 Q. BUT IN THE 1950'S WHEN YOU GO TO WORK AT UNION CARBIDE IN 4 PHENOLIC RESIN MATERIAL, AND WAS TO DO IT IN A LAMINATED 5 BOUND BROOK, THERE'S A FACILITY THAT MAKES RESINS AND THERE'S 5 FASHION, YOU WOULD BE A COMPANY THEY COULD BUY THAT PRODUCT 6 A FACILITY THAT MAKES MOLDING COMPOUNDS; IS THAT CORRECT? 6 FROM TO MAKE, SAY, A LAMINATED BLOCK OR A LAMINATED BOARD? 7 A. THAT'S CORRECT. A. YES. THEY WOULD BUY FROM US. SOME OF THE BIG ONES GOT IT 8 Q. WOULD YOU TELL THE LADIES AND GENTLEMEN OF THE JURY WHAT AND DECIDED THEY WERE BUYING SO MUCH THAT THEY STARTED MAKING 9 THE PHYSICAL LAYOUT WASIN BOUND BROOK? 9 IT THEMSELVES. WESTINGHOUSE, FOR EXAMPLE, MADE LAMINATES AND 10 IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT; A NUMBER OF 10 THEY ENDED UP MAKING THEIR OWN RESINS TOO. 11 PLANTS? HOW IS IT SET UP SO WE KNOW WHERE THESE MATERIALS ARE 11 Q. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE RESINS. THERE WAS ANOTHER BUILDING 12 BEING MADE? 12 THERE WHERE THE MOLDING COMPOUNDS WERE MADE? 13 A. WELL, EACH BUILDING HAD A NUMBER; AND, OF COURSE, THERE 13 A. YES. 14 WAS A MAP THAT YOU COULD REFER TO AS, YOU KNOW, WHERE THOSE 14 Q. TELL THE LADIES AND GENTLEMEN OF THE JURY WHAT THE PROCESS 15 BUILDINGS WERE. 15 WAS AND HOW IT DIFFERED, IF AT ALL, FROM THE MAKING OF THE 16 Q. WAS THERE A BUILDING THERE WHERE THEY MADE THE RESIN 16 RESINS? HOW WOULD A MOLDING COMPOUND BE MADE WHILE YOU WORKED 17 MATERIALS? 17 FOR THE BAKELITE DIVISION? 18 A. YES. 19 Q. OKAY. COULD YOU JUST BRIEFLYTELL THE LADIES AND 18 A. THE PRODUCTION OF RESINS IS PRETTY MUCH LIKE I DESCRIBED 19 IN THE OTHER BUILDING. BUT THEN, THAT POWDERED RESIN WOULD BE 20 GENTLEMEN OF THE JURY AT BOUND BROOK IN THE 1950'S, HOW WAS 20 FED UP TO A RIBBON BLENDER, A VERY LARGE RIBBON BLENDER, IN 21 THIS RESIN MADE? 21 POWDERED FORM. 22 A. THE RESIN WAS MADE IN A BIG STEEL KETTLE, HUGE. PROBABLY 22 23 SOME OF THE BIG STILLS WE HAD WERE 4 FEET IN DIAMETER; AND 23 AND IT WOULD BE MIXED WITH ALL THE OTHER INGREDIENTS WHICH WERE ALSO IN POWDERED FORM. AND THIS BLENDER WOULD GET A VERY 24 SOME SMALL STILLS WE HAD IN THE LAB WERE MAYBE 18 INCHES IN 24 UNIFORM MIX OF EVERYTHING. 2 5 DIAMETER. 25 THAT MIX THEN WOULD BE FED DOWN CHUTES TO TWO HOT ROLLS. 26 AND INSIDE THESE BIG VATSWAS ANAGITATOR. AND THESE HAD 26 ROLLS ON OUR BIG UNIT WERE PROBABLY ABOUT EIGHT FEET LONG AND 27 CONDENSERS ON THE TOP TO TAKE GASES AND VOLATILES AND CONDENSE 27 ABOUT THREE FEET IN DIAMETER HEATED. 26 THEM AND BRING THEM BACK INTO THE PROCESS. 28 ONE ROLL WENT FASTER THAN THE OTHER AND THE MATERIALS 874 876 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 1 WHAT IT COST HIM BECAUSE OF OUR MISTAKE. 1 STACK UP THE NUMBER OF TREATED SHEETS TO GET WHATEVER 2 Q. NOW OVER THE YEARS IN TERMS OF WORKING WITH CUSTOMERS AND 2 THICKNESS YOU WANT. IF YOU WANT A THIN SHEET, YOU PUT ENOUGH 3 WORKING WITH FORMULATION, YOU HAD A GENERAL UNDERSTANDING OF 3 TO GET THAT THICKNESS. IF YOU WANT A 2 INCH SHEET, THEN YOU 4 WHAT YOUR MOLDING COMPOUNDS WERE GOOD FOR AND NOT GOOD FOR IN 4 HAVE TO PUT IN A LOT OF SHEETS BUT YOU GET UP TO THE 2 INCH 5 TERMS OF END PRODUCTS? 5 THICKNESS LIKE THAT. 6 A. WE KNEW ENOUGH TO SAY, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T THINK THIS IS 6 YOU PUT THOSE SHEETS BETWEEN TWO SHEETS OF METAL. THEY'RE 7 GOING TO WORK AND MAKE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS. AND USUALLY, THE FAIRLY THIN SHEETS WITH WHATEVER SURFACE APPEARANCE THAT YOU 8 CUSTOMERS -- IT WAS A TWO-WAY STREET. THEY WOULD TELL US WHAT 8 WANT. IF YOU WANT HIGH GLOSS, YOU HAVE HIGH GLOSS PANELS. IF 9 THEY WANTED AND WE WOULD TELL THEM IF WE COULD DO IT. 9 YOU WANT DULL, YOU PUT DULL PANELS IN. 10 Q. AND IN YOUR EXPERIENCE IN WORKING IN THE PHENOLIC RESIN 10 THOSE PANELS GO INTO A COMPRESSION PRESS, AND IT CLOSES 11 BUSINESS AND IN THE PHENOLIC MOLDING COMPOUND BUSINESS, DID 11 AND THE PRESS IS HEATED, SO THAT YOU APPLY HEAT TO BOTH SIDES 12 YOU EVER COME TO OBSERVE PANELS THAT WERE MADE OUT OF SOME 12 THROUGH THESE SHEETS OF STEEL THAT YOU PUT THE TREATED PAPER 13 KIND OF PHENOLIC RESIN MATERIAL? 13 ON. 14 A. YES. 14 AND AFTER A CERTAIN LENGTH OF TIME UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS, 15 Q. IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, HAD YOU EVER SEENSUCHPANELS HAVING 15 THE PHENOLIC RESIN MELTS AND THE SHEETS GET GLUED TOGETHER 16 BEEN MADE USING A MOLDING PROCESS? 16 UNDER HEAT AND PRESSURE AND SINCE THE PRESSURES ARE UP OVER A 17 A. NO. 17 THOUSAND PSI IN THE COMPRESSION PRESS, IT'S A PRETTY SOLID 18 Q. HOW IS IT THAT YOU OBSERVED -- 18 PANEL. THERE ARE NO SIDES. JUST A SHEET ON THE TOP AND THEN 19 A. LET ME CLARIFY THAT. 19 THE BOTTOM. 2 0 MR. HARLEY: YOUR HONOR -- 20 NOW YOU GO TO TRY TO MAKE THE SAME THING, LET'S SAY 3 BY 3 21 THE COURT: JUST A MOMENT, MR. MARTINO. 21 FOOT PANEL, OR, YOU KNOW, 4 BY 8, AND YOU WANT TO USE THE 22 THE WITNESS: SORRY. 22 GRANULAR PRODUCT I DESCRIBED BEFORE, WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO DO 23 MR. HARLEY: YOUR HONOR,I BELIEVE HE ANSWERED THE 23 IS UNIFORMLY DISTRIBUTE ALL OF THAT GRANULAR MATERIAL WHICH IT 24 QUESTION. 2 5 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 24 LOOKS LIKE A BLACK SAND ACROSS THIS 4 BY 8 OR 3 BY 3 PANEL. 25 IF, AS IS USUALLY THE CASE IN A MOLDING PROCESS, THE MOLD 26 MR. BRYDON Q. WAS THERE AN EXPLANATION YOU WANTED TO 26 IS ALREADY HOT, YOU DON'T HAVE MUCH TIME. SO YOU RUN THE RISK 27 ADD TO THAT QUESTION, SIR? 27 THAT THOSE GRANULES ARE GOING TO PRE-CURE BEFORE YOU END UP 26 A. YOU SAID MOLDING PROCESS AND IQUICKLY SAID, YES. IT 28 GETTING THAT UNIFORMLY DISTRIBUTED. 889 891 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 1 SHOULD BE MOLDING MATERIAL BECAUSE LAMINATING IS A FORM OF A 1 YOU HAVE ANOTHER OPTION. YOU CAN TAKE THAT MOLD OUT AND 2 MOLDING PROCESS ALSO. 2 USE IT COLD AND DISTRIBUTE IT. AND THEN YOU PUT IT IN THE 3 Q. HOW IS IT IN YOUR EXPERIENCE HAVING SEEN YOUR KIND OF 3 PRESS AND HEAT IT UP. 4 PRODUCTS USED OVER THE YEARS, THAT YOU HAVE SEEN ANY KIND OF 4 BECAUSE THAT MATERIAL IS A GRANULAR MATERIAL, YOU HAVE TO 5 PHENOLIC RESIN USED IN THE MAKING OF A PANEL AS OPPOSED TO A 5 HAVE SIDES ON IT SO IT DOESN'T SPILL OUT ONTO THE FLOOR; SO 6 SHAPED PRODUCT? 6 YOU NOW DON'T HAVE JUST A SIMPLE SHEET. YOU HAVE A BOX. AND 7 A. COULD YOU REPHRASE THAT AGAIN, PLEASE. IT HAS TO BE THICK ENOUGH TO WITHSTAND THE PRESSURES OF THE 8 Q. YES. IN YOUR EXPERIENCE WHEN YOU'VE SEEN PANELS -- AND 8 COMPRESSION THAT IS OCCURRING THERE; SO IT HAS TO BE A THICK 9 YOU TALKED ABOUT HOW YOU HAD OBSERVED PANELS THAT ARE OUT 9 MOLD AND IT'S HEAVY. 10 THERE. AND I BELIEVE YOU SAID YOU HADN'T SEEN IT DONE IN A 10 YOU'RE FURTHER RESTRICTED AND IF YOU MAKE YOUR MOLD A HALF 11 MOLDING PROCESS OTHER THAN VIA LAMINATION. 11 INCH THICK, THAT'S ALL YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE; A HALF-INCH THICK 12 IN OTHER WORDS, HOW DOES THE LAMINATING PROCESS WITH THE 12 PANEL. IF YOU WANT A ONE-INCH PANEL, YOU HAVE TO PUT IN A 13 USE OF PHENOLIC MATERIAL DIFFER FROM THE MOLDING PROCESS? 13 ONE-INCH DEEP MOLD WHICH MEANS ANOTHER MOLD. 14 A. I THINK I'LL HAVE TO GIVE AN EXPLANATION. 14 15 Q. AND THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING IS TO ASK YOU TO EXPLAIN THAT? 15 WHEREAS, THE LAMINATING PROCESS YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT. THE COURT: USE THE MICROPHONE, MR. MARTINO, AND REPEAT 16 A. WELL, IF IT'S OKAY, I'LL GO AHEAD WITH IT. 16 WHAT YOU SAID. IT'S ADJUSTABLE SO YOU CAN MOVE IT. 17 IN THE LAMINATING PROCESS, YOU TAKE -- LET ME TAKE A 17 THE WITNESS: SO IN THE MOLDING PROCESS USING MOLDING 18 SIMPLE ONE IN SOMETHING THAT EVERYBODY IS FAMILIAR WITH. 18 MATERIAL, YOU HAVE TO USE A MOLD AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE A MOLD 19 LET'S SAY, PAPER LAMINATES. YOU TAKE CRAFT PAPER VERY SIMILAR 19 FOR THE SIZE AND THICKNESS THAT YOU WANT; SO YOU HAVE A SERIES 20 TO THE CRAFT PAPER THAT YOU USE TO WRAP YOUR PACKAGES IN. YOU 20 OF MOLDS TO USE. 21 KNOW, IT'S SORT OFA BROWNISH COLOR. AND THAT IS FED THROUGH 21 IN THE LAMINATING PROCESS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT; SO 22 A VAT THAT CONTAINSA LIQUID PHENOLIC RESIN. 22 YOU END UP WITH A MORE CUMBERSOME, A MORE COSTLY PROCESS. 23 IT THEN GOES THROUGH AN OVEN WHERE THE MATERIAL IS DRIED, 23 AND THEN THERE'S ONE OTHER FEATURE HERE THAT IS VERY 24 AND WHEN THE SHEET COMES OUT IN DRIED FORM, YOU THEN CUT IT TO 24 IMPORTANT. IN THE MOLDING MATERIAL PROCESS, AS I DESCRIBED, 25 THE SIZE YOU WANT. IF YOU WANT TO 4 BY 8 PANEL, THAT'S WHAT 25 WE MAKE THE SHEET BUT THEN WE GRANULATE IT; SO YOU END UP WITH 26 YOU CUT. IF YOU WANT A 3 BY 3 FOOT PANEL, THAT'S WHAT YOU 26 LITTLE PARTICLES. THE BIGGEST ARE MAYBE AN 8TH OF AN INCH, 27 CUT. 27 MAYBE A LITTLE LARGER THAN THAT, OF DISCREET PARTICLES. 26 YOU THEN TAKE THAT MATERIAL AND YOU GO TO A PRESS AND YOU 28 AND IF YOU ADD FIBERS IN THERE, THE FIBERS IN ONE PARTICLE 890 892 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 1 RESINS AND MOLDING COMPOUND WERE MET? 1 Q. AND DID YOUR COMPETITORS MAKE PRODUCTS THAT WERE MINERAL 2 MR. HARLEY: OBJECTION. LACKS FOUNDATION. NO. ESTABLISH 2 FILLED? 3 A PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE ON THIS. 3 A. YES. 4 THE COURT: LAY THE FOUNDATION. 4 Q. DID YOUR COMPETITORS MAKE PRODUCTS THAT WERE MINERAL 5 MR. BRYDON Q. DO YOU KNOW WHAT UNION CARBIDE DID TO TRY 5 FILLED WITH ASBESTOS? 6 TO SEE TO IT THAT CUSTOMERS DURING THIS PERIOD WHEN UNION 6 MR. HARLEY: OBJECTION. LACKS FOUNDATION. CALLS FOR 7 CARBIDE COULDN'T MAKE THESE MATERIALS, WHAT THEY DID TO HELP HEARSAY. 8 SEE TO IT THAT THE MATERIAL WAS AVAILABLE? 8 THE COURT: I'M GOING TO ALLOW IT. 9 MR. HARLEY: OBJECTION. LEADING AND COMPOUND. 9 THE WITNESS: YES. 10 MR. BRYDON: IT'S A FOUNDATIONAL QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. 10 MR. BRYDON Q. AND IN 1952, WHEN THIS UNFORTUNATE 11 THE COURT: I'M GOING TO ALLOW IT. 11 ACCIDENT OCCURRED AT THE BOUND BROOK FACILITY, WAS UNION 12 MR. HARLEY: WELL, I DON'T WANT -- 12 CARBIDE BASICALLY NUMBER 1 IN THIS BUSINESS AS FAR AS ITS 13 THE COURT: COUNSEL, DO NOT ARGUE. 13 MARKET SHARE? 14 MR. HARLEY: OKAY. 14 A. YES. WE HAD ABOUT 50 PERCENT. 15 MR. BRYDON Q. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEY DID? 15 Q. I NOW WANT TO TAKE YOU TO A TIME PERIOD AFTER 1952 AND 16 A. YES, I DO. 16 INTO THE 1960'S? 17 Q. WHAT DID THEY DO? 17 A. WE NEVER REGAINED OUR ORIGINAL POSITION. I THINK THE BEST 18 MR. HARLEY: OBJECTION. FOUNDATION AS TO HOW HE KNEW. 18 WE EVER DID WAS ABOUT 25 PERCENT. 19 THE COURT: LAY THAT FOUNDATION, COUNSEL. 19 Q. AND IF WE TAKE OURSELVES TO ABOUT 1969 OR 1970, BASED ON 2 0 MR. BRYDON Q. HOW DO YOU KNOW? 20 YOUR WORKING AT UNION CARBIDE WITH THIS PRODUCT OVER THE 21 A. BECAUSE I WAS THERE WHEN IT WAS BEING DONE. I WORKEDWITH 21 YEARS, DID YOU HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING WHERE UNION CARBIDE WAS 22 PEOPLE WHO WERE INVOLVED IN THE BUSINESS. THOSE MATERIALS 22 23 WERE NOT LOCKED INTO SPECIFICATION. IT WAS EASY FOR THE 23 IN TERMS OF ITS MARKET SHARE IN THE LATE 1960'S? A. YES, I DO. 24 CUSTOMER TO BUY AN EQUIVALENT FROM OUR COMPETITORS AND JUST 24 2 5 SUBSTITUTE AN EQUIVALENT MATERIAL. 25 MR. HARLEY: OBJECTION. THE WITNESS: YES, I DO. 26 Q. WERE THERE SOME THAT THEY COULD NOT BUY AN EQUIVALENT 26 MR. HARLEY: OKAY. 27 MATERIAL FOR? 27 MR. BRYDON Q. AND IN CONNECTION -- WHO WAS NUMBER 1 IN 26 A. YES, BECAUSE THEY WERE LOCKED INTO SPECIFICATIONS. AND IN 28 THE LATE 1960'S OR EARLY 1970'S? 897 899 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 1 ORDER TO MAKE A SUBSTITUTION, THEY REQUIRED APPROVAL TO DO 1 A. DUREZ. 2 THAT. AND IN SOME CASES THAT INVOLVED EXTENSIVE TESTING; SO 2 MR. HARLEY: OBJECTION. OPINION TESTIMONY. 3 UNION CARBIDE GAVE THE FORMULATIONS TO OTHER COMPETITORS TO 3 THE COURT: LAY THE FOUNDATION. 4 PRODUCE MATERIAL TO KEEP THOSE COMPANIES IN BUSINESS UNTIL 4 MR. BRYDON: I THINK I'VE LAID THE FOUNDATION FOR THIS. 5 SUCH TIME WE COULD PRODUCE THEM AGAIN OURSELVES. 5 THE WITNESS: DUREZ. 6 Q. SO THERE WAS A PERIOD OF TIME WHERE THERE WERE ONLY 6 MR. BRYDON Q. MR. MARTINO, BEING INVOLVED IN THE 7 FORMULATIONS THAT ONLY UNION CARBIDE KNEW THAT CUSTOMERS BAKELITE DIVISION, YOU HAD TO KEEP AN EYE ON YOUR COMPETITORS; 8 WANTED THAT THEY GAVE TO COMPETITORS SO THAT THEIR NEEDS COULD 8 CORRECT? 9 BE MET? 9 A. YES. 10 A. YES. 10 Q. AND YOU WERE ABLE TO OBSERVE THE SHARE WITH WHICH YOUR 11 Q. WHO WERE SOME OF THE COMPETITORS OF UNION CARBIDE WHEN 11 COMPETITORS WERE COMPETING WITH YOUR COMPANY? 12 THIS EXPLOSION OCCURRED? 12 A. YES. 13 A. DUREZ. AT THE TIME THEY WERE A DIVISION OF HOOKER 13 Q. AND BASED ON WHAT YOUR COMPETITORS WERE DOING IN THE LATE 14 CHEMICAL. PLASTIC ENGINEER COMPANY, ALSO KNOWN AS PLENCO. 14 1960'S AROUND THE TURN OF THE DECADE OF THE 1970'S, WHO WAS 15 GENERAL ELECTRIC MADE ITS OWN MATERIALS AND USED THEM. 15 THE LEADER IN MARKET SHARE FOR THE PHENOLIC MOLDING PLASTIC 16 I THINK AT THAT TIME WESTINGHOUSE WAS ALSO MAKING ITS OWN 16 PRODUCTS? 17 MATERIALS AND USING THEM BUT THEY DID NOT SELL THEM. 17 A. DUREZ. 18 REICHHOLD. 18 Q. AND DO YOU KNOW THE RELATIVE SHARES OF THE OTHER COMPANIES 19 HOW MANY WAS THAT? FOUR? 19 THAT YOU HAVE DESCRIBED THAT WERE COMPETING WITH UNION CARBIDE 2 0 Q. THAT WAS FOUR OR FIVE. 20 DURING THE '60'S AND EARLY '70'S? 21 A. AND THEN THERE WERE TWOCOMPANIES: FIBERITE, WHO MADE 21 A. YES. 22 SPECIALTY PRODUCTS. AND RODGERS CORPORATION WHO ALSO MADE 22 Q. AND WHAT WAS THE RELATIVE SHARE OF OTHER COMPANIES? 23 SPECIALTY PRODUCTS. 23 A. WELL, DUREZ, OF COURSE, HAD ABOUT 40; ALMOST 50 PERCENT. 24 Q. NOW BEING IN THE RESEARCH SIDE OF THE PHENOLIC RESIN AND 24 PLASTIC ENGINEERING COMPANY HAD ABOUT 12 PERCENT. GENERAL 2 5 PHENOLIC MOLDING COMPOUND MATERIAL, YOU HAD A GENERAL 25 ELECTRIC HAD ABOUT 8 PERCENT. REICHHOLD HAD ABOUT FOUR OR 26 FAMILIARITY WITH THE KINDS OF PRODUCTS THAT YOUR COMPETITORS 26 FIVE PERCENT. WE HAD, I REMEMBER THE FIGURES, AT ONE TIME 17 27 WERE MAKING? 27 PERCENT. AND THE REMAINDER WAS SPLIT BETWEEN FIBERITE AND 26 A. OH, YES. 28 RODGERS. 898 900 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 1 THE COURT: OKAY. BEFORE WE BEGIN, IS ANYONE INTERESTED 1 SEE THAT. 2 IN A FIVE-MINUTE COMFORT BREAK? 2 Q. WHILE THE PRODUCT THAT BAKELITE WAS SELLING IN THE 1970'S, 3 OKAY; THEN WE'LL TAKE A FIVE-MINUTE COMFORT BREAK. 3 THE GREEN PRODUCT FOR HIGH ARC RESISTANCE ACTUALLY HAD BEEN 4 (RECESS TAKEN.) 4 TESTED FOR MILITARY SPECS UP TO 60,000 VOLTS; ISN'T THAT 5 THE COURT: THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THE TIME IS 9:53. 5 CORRECT? 6 AND ALL 16 JURORS ARE PRESENT AND COUNSEL ARE PRESENT. 6 A. I DON'T KNOW. 7 AND MR. MARTINO HAS RETAKEN THE STAND. Q. WELL -- 8 MR. HARLEY? 8 THE COURT: HAVE THOSE BEEN MARKED, COUNSEL? 9 CROSS-EXAMINATION 9 MR. HARLEY: YES. THESE ARE THE ONES I GOT THAT HAVE BEEN 10 MR. HARLEY Q. GOOD MORNING, MR. MARTINO. 10 11 A. GOOD MORNING. 11 Q. MR. MARTINO, DO YOU RECALL THAT YOU WERE DEPOSED LAST YEAR 12 Q. MY NAME'S PHIL HARLEY. I DON'T BELIEVE WE'VE EVER MET 12 IN MAY; ABOUT A YEAR AGO? MAY 2001? IN A SAN FRANCISCO CASE 13 BEFORE. AND I'M REPRESENTING MR. TRINCHESE. 13 KNOWN AS JAEGER (PHONETIC) VERSUS UNION CARBIDE. 14 MR. MARTINO, WHEN YOU GAVE THOSE MARKET PERCENTAGES, DO 14 A. YES. 15 YOU RECALL THAT TESTIMONY? 15 Q. AND DO YOU RECALL TESTIFYING IN THAT CASE THAT YOU HAD NO 16 A. YES. 16 INFORMATION AT ALL REGARDING UNION CARBIDE MEETING MILITARY 17 Q. MARKET OF WHAT? 17 SPECS OR WHICH PRODUCT MET MILITARY SPECS OR ANYTHING LIKE 18 A. THIS IS THE SHARE OF THE PHENOLIC MOLDING MATERIAL MARKET 18 THAT? 19 ONLY. 19 MR. BRYDON: YOUR HONOR, COULD I HAVE A PAGE AND LINE 2 0 Q. AND HOW MUCH OF THE SHARE OF THE NAVY MILITARY 20 PLEASE. 21 APPLICATIONS DID BAKELITE HAVE? 21 MR. HARLEY: I ASKED HIM FIRST WHETHER HE RECALLED THAT. 22 A. I DON'T KNOW. 22 MR. BRYDON: I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT HE SAID. 23 Q. HOW MUCH OF MILITARY APPLICATIONS DID BAKELITE HAVE? 23 MR. HARLEY: WELL, I'M ASKING HIM. 24 A. I DON'T KNOW. 24 THE COURT: YOU MAY ANSWER, MR. MARTINO. 25 Q. YOU POINTED OUT THAT DUREZ HAD SOME OF THEIR MOLDING 25 THE WITNESS: I MAY HAVE. THAT WAS MY FIRST DEPOSITION 26 PRODUCTS APPROVED FOR MILITARY SPEC. 26 AND I HAD EVERYTHING I -- INFORMATION I GAVE WAS FROM MEMORY 27 AND I'LL FIND THAT EXHIBIT NUMBER 904. AND YOU WERE ON 27 OF SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED 30 YEARS AGO. 26 THE PAGE THAT TALKED ABOUT MOISTURE RESISTANT SPECIAL 28 MR. HARLEY Q. AND PAGE -- IF YOU'D TAKE THAT BINDER 905 907 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 1 PROPERTIES AND SPECIAL APPLICATIONS; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? 1 THERE AND LOOK AT TAB 34 WHICH IS EXHIBIT 134, I THINK YOU'LL 2 A. THAT'S CORRECT. 2 FIND A COPY OF YOUR DEPOSITION. 3 Q. AND THIS PARTICULAR PAGE DENOTED MANY OF THOSE PRODUCTS AS 3 A. YES -- NO, THIS IS TRINCHESE? 4 BEING GLASS FILLED; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? 4 Q. NO. TAB -- YES. THAT'S YOURS. DO YOU HAVE THAT? 5 A. I DIDN'T LOOK THAT CAREFULLY. 5 A. YES. 6 Q. OKAY. DID DUREZ IN THIS BROCHURE DENOTE ANYTHING AS BEING 6 Q. OKAY. 7 MINERAL FILLED? 7 THE COURT: IT'S A DEPOSITION TAKEN WHEN? 8 A. I DID NOT GO THROUGH THE WHOLE BROCHURE. I JUST LOOKED AT MR. HARLEY: THIS WAS THE DEPOSITION TAKEN MAY 4, 2001 AND 9 THE PAGE AS I WAS DIRECTED TO LOOK AT IT. 9 THIS IS THE DEPOSITION THAT WE READ PORTIONS OF HIS 10 Q. DID YOU HAPPEN TO LOOK AT THE VOLTAGE REQUIREMENTS OF THE 10 DEPOSITION. 11 MATERIALS, THE DUREZ MATERIALS THAT HAD MILITARY SPECS ON IT? 11 Q. I'M GOING TO REPRESENT TO YOU, MR. MARTINO, THAT PARTS OF 12 A. NO, I DID NOT. 12 YOUR DEPOSITION WERE READ TO THE JURY IN THIS CASE. AND I'D 13 Q. THE HIGHER THE VOLTAGE, THE MORE STRENGTH AND HEAT 13 ASK YOU TO TURN TO PAGE 51. 14 RESISTANCE NEEDED IN THE MATERIAL; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? 15 A. THAT IS CORRECT. 14 A. YES. 15 Q. AND STARTING ON LINE 24, AND LOOK OVER ON -- GOING OVER TO 16 Q. AND THAT ASBESTOS WAS USED IN HIGH VOLTAGE ELECTRICAL 16 PAGE 52, PAGE 11. 17 APPLICATIONS BECAUSE OF BOTH ITS HEAT RESISTANCE AND ITS 17 A. YES. 18 ABILITY TO IMPART STRENGTH; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? 18 Q. YOU SEE THAT? 19 A. YES. AND SO WAS GLASS. 19 A. YES. 20 Q. AND THE MORE ASBESTOS YOU PUT IN, GENERALLY UP UNTIL A 20 Q. AND YOU WERE ASKED SPECIFICALLY DID YOU HAVE ANY 21 CERTAIN POINT, THE HIGHER STRENGTH AND LESS CONDUCTIVITY; 21 UNDERSTANDING AS TO WHETHER PHENOLIC RESINS MANUFACTURED BY 22 ISN'T THAT CORRECT? 23 A. NOT PHYSICAL STRENGTH. THE BETTER ARC RESISTANCE. 22 UNION CARBIDE BAKELITE QUALIFIED UNDER THE MINERAL FILLER 23 SPECIFICATIONS OF THE U.S. NAVY. AND YOUR ANSWER IS YOU 24 Q. ARC RESISTANCE. AND DID YOU SEE ANYTHING IN THESE 24 DIDN'T KNOW. ISN'T THAT CORRECT? 25 SPECIFICATIONS FOR DUREZ THAT THEY HAD A PRODUCT THAT WOULD GO 25 A. IN THAT TIME, IT WAS CORRECT. 26 UP TO 60,000 KILOVOLTS IN MILITARY SPEC TESTING? 26 Q. AND DO YOU HAVE -- AND THEN YOU WERE ASKED IF YOU KNEW OF 27 A. I ONLY LOOKED AT THE PAGES I WAS DIRECTED TO LOOK AT. I 27 ANYBODY WHO HAD THAT INFORMATION. YOU WOULDN'T -- 26 DID NOT GO INTO THEM IN THAT DETAIL. I'M SORRY. I DID NOT 28 YOU SAID YOUR ANSWER IS: WE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ON THE 906 90S 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 1 ANALYSIS THAT WE HAD DONE. 1 A. NO. 2 Q. SO YOU MET WITH UNION CARBIDE ATTORNEYS AND 2 Q. SOME PRODUCTS IN THE '40'S, '50'S AND '60'S CONTAINED AS 3 REPRESENTATIVES? 3 MUCH AS 50 PERCENT ASBESTOS; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? 4 A. WELL, I HAVE MET WITH THEM MANY TIMES SINCE THEN. YES. 4 A. THAT IS CORRECT. 5 Q. AND THEY'VE SHOWN YOU SOME DOCUMENTS TO HELP REFRESH YOUR 5 Q. AND SOMETIMES, IT WAS CHRYSOTILE ASBESTOS; AND IN ONE 6 MEMORY OR GIVE YOU INFORMATION? 6 PARTICULAR PRODUCT LINE, IT WAS CROCIDOLITE ASBESTOS? 7 A. WELL, THERE WERE DOCUMENTS THEY HAPPENED TO FIND AND THEY A. THAT'S CORRECT. 8 WANTED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY MEANT. 8 Q. AND AS I UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS, ASBESTOS ARRIVED AT THE 9 Q. AND DID THOSE DOCUMENTS HELP REFRESH YOUR MEMORY? 9 MOLDING FACILITY IN BAGS; IS THAT CORRECT, FROM CAREY, CANADA? 10 A. SOME DID. 10 A. YES. 11 Q. AND? 11 Q. AND THE BAGS WERE DUMPED INTO A HOPPER; AM I GETTING THAT 12 A. SOME DIDN'T. 12 CORRECTLY? 13 Q. DID YOU BRING ANY OF THOSE DOCUMENTS WITH YOU TODAY? 13 A. INTO A RIBBON BLENDER. 14 A. NO. 14 Q. THEY WERE ACTUALLY DUMPED DIRECTLY INTO THE BLENDER? 15 Q. GE, AS WELL AS BEING A COMPETITOR, WAS ALSO A CUSTOMER OF 15 A. YES, AS I RECALL, THEY WERE. 16 MOLDING MATERIALS; IS THATCORRECT? GENERAL ELECTRIC? 16 Q. AND INSIDE THIS BLENDER WERE THE GRANULES, THE DRY 17 A. THEY BOUGHT -- YOU KNOW, THEY USED THEIR OWN MATERIAL. 17 GRANULES OF THE RESINS? IB AND I'VE BEEN ASKED THAT QUESTION BEFORE. I DON'T HAVE A 18 A. WELL, THEY WEREN'T GRANULES. THE PHENOLIC RESIN WAS 19 RECORD OF WHAT WE SOLD TO GE OR SEEN ANY RECORDS, BUT IT IS 19 GROUND UP INTO A FINE POWDER LIKE FLOUR. 20 POSSIBLE THAT IF IT WAS SOMETHING THAT THEY DID NOT MAKE, AND 20 Q. SO IT WAS A POWDER? 21 WE DID, THAT WE COULD HAVE SOLD IT TO THEM; SO THERE COULD BE 21 A. POWDER, YES. 22 SOME SALES. BUT ONLY, YOU KNOW, UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES. 22 Q. SO YOU HAD THIS FINE POWDER OF BAKELITE. NOW, IT WAS 23 MR. HARLEY; WOULD YOU TURN TO PAGE 75 OF YOUR DEPOSITION. 23 FORMULATED INTO THE BAKELITE RESINS; IS THAT CORRECT? 24 LINE 16 THROUGH LINE 21. 24 A. YES. 25 QUESTION; DID YOU WORK AT ALL WITH GENERAL ELECTRIC AND 25 Q. AND THEN ASBESTOS WAS THEN ADDED TO THE SPECIFIED AMOUNT, 26 HAVE ANY FAMILIARITY WITH THE TYPE OF BAKELITE THEY PURCHASED. 26 ANYWHERE FROM 5 TO 50 PERCENT; IS THAT CORRECT? 27 ANSWER: THEY MADE THEIR OWN PHENOLIC MOLDING MATERIAL AND 27 A. THAT'S CORRECT. 28 BOUGHT FROM US WHAT THEY DIDN'T MAKE; SO THEY WERE BOTH A 28 Q. AND THEN THIS RIBBON BLENDER? 913 915 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 7/16/2002 Martino, Carlo in Trinchese 1 PRODUCER AND A USER? 1 A. NO. THE RIBBON WAS THIS WAY. 2 THE WITNESS: UH-HUH. THAT'SCORRECT. 2 Q. TURNED AS A CYLINDER? 3 MR. HARLEY Q. AND SQUARE D WASA CUSTOMER; IS THAT 3 A. THAT'S RIGHT. 4 CORRECT? 4 Q. AND THEN THE CYLINDER JUST TURNED THIS? HOW LONG WAS THIS 5 A. THAT'S CORRECT. 5 RIBBON BLENDER? 6 Q. YOU VISITED SQUARE D FACILITIES? 6 A. OH, MY GUESS IS FROM ME TO YOU. 7 A. YES. 8 Q. WHICH FACILITIES DID YOU VISIT? Q. OKAY. 12, 15 FEET? 8 THE COURT: JUST A MOMENT. LET ME PULL OUT MY HANDY 9 A. THE ONES IN LEXINGTON, KENTUCKY. 9 CHART. 18 FEET. 10 Q. WHAT WERE THEY MAKING THERE? 10 MR. HARLEY: OKAY. 11 A. OH, A WHOLE RANGE OF ELECTRICAL PARTS. 11 Q. DOES THAT SOUND ABOUT RIGHT? 12 Q. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THEIR SUBSTATION OPERATIONS; THEIR 12 A. THAT'S ABOUT RIGHT. YES. I AM IMPRESSED. 13 MANUFACTURE OF SUBSTATIONS? 13 THE COURT: AND IT'S FROM WHERE YOU'RE SITTING. 14 A. NO. 14 MR. HARLEY Q. AND MR. MARTINO, THEN THIS MIXTURE OF 15 Q. THEY WERE -- THEY BOUGHT A RANGE OF MOLDING MATERIALS FROM 15 POWDER BAKELITE AND ASBESTOS WAS SLOWLY FED INTO TWO PINCHER 16 UNION CARBIDE? 16 ROLLERS; HOT PINCHER ROLLERS? 17 A. YES. 17 A. I WOULDN'T SAY SLOWLY. 18 Q. THROUGHOUT THE PERIOD OF TIME THAT YOU WERE THERE? 18 Q. OKAY. 19 A. DURING SOME OF THE YEARS I WAS THERE; NOT ALL OF THE 19 A. THEY WERE CALLED ROLL MILLS. 2 0 YEARS. 20 Q. OKAY. 21 Q. HOW ABOUT IN THE '60'S? 21 A. AND THEY WERE FAIRLY BIG SIZED. WELL, DEPENDING ON THE 22 A. THEY DID BUY IN THE '60'S BUT I DON'T RECALL THE EXACT 22 SIZE OF THE UNIT. I THINK THE BIG UNIT I THINK I SAID THE 23 YEARS. 23 WIDTH WAS ABOUT EIGHT FEET AND THE DIAMETER ABOUT THREE FEET. 24 Q. AND THEY HAD MANUFACTURING FACILITIES OTHER THAN IN 24 THEY WERE FED INTO THE NIP. THAT'S WHERE THE TWO ROLLS MEET 2 5 LEXINGTON, KENTUCKY; ISTHAT CORRECT? 25 AND THEY ROTATED THIS WAY. 26 A. IF THEY DID, I DIDN'T VISIT THEM. I DON'T KNOW. 26 Q. OKAY. 27 Q. YOU DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT ANY OFFICES IN LOS ANGELES OR 27 A. ONE ROLL WENT FASTER THAN THE OTHER; SO THAT YOU'D GET 2B CHICAGO WHERE THEY MADE PRODUCTS? 28 SOME ROLLING ACTION OF THE MATERIAL IN THE NIP. 914 916