Document NE00aydz03GGDXBOBwwqK3198

1 1 IN THE COMMONWEALTH COURT OF PENNSYLVANIA 2 PENNSYLVANIA DEPARTMENT OF GENERAL: SERVICES, PENNSYLVANIA : 3 DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION, : PENNSYLVANIA PUBLIC UTILITY : 4 COMMISSION, PENNSYLVANIA EMERGENCY: MANAGEMENT AGENCY, and : 5 PENNSYLVANIA DEPARTMENT OF STATE : Plaintiffs : 6 Vs. : UNITED STATES MINERAL PRODUCTS : 7 COMPANY, CERTAINTEED CORPORATION, : CO URTAULDS AEROSPACE, INC., : 8 CHEMREX, INC., PHILIPS ELECTRONICS: NORTH AMERICA CORPORATION, : 9 ADVANCE TRANSFORMER COMPANY and : MONSANTOCOMPANY : 10 Defendants : NO.284 M.D.1990 11 BEFORE THE HONORABLE CHARLES P. MIRARCHI, JR. 12 March 3, 2000 13 Trial testimony in the above-captioned 14 matter, held at the Commonwealth Court of 15 Pennsylvania, City Hall, Courtroom 453, 16 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, on Friday, March 17 28, 2000, at 9:45 a.m., before 18 John W. Begley, a Registered 19 Professional Reporter - Notary Public there 20 being present. 2 1 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 22 1880 JFK BOULEVARD - 15TH FLOOR 23 PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA 24 215 - 988-9191 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60764 1 APPEARANCES: 2 2 HUMPHREY, FARRINGTON & MC CLAIN, P.C. 3 BY: KENNETHB.MCCLAIN,ESQUIRE 4 RALPH K. PHALEN, ESQUIRE 5 221 West Lexington - Suite 400 6 Independence, Missouri 64051 7 Phone: 816 - 836-5050 8 Representing the Plaintiffs 9 10 LAW OFFICES OF THOMAS W. HENDERSON 11 BY: THOMAS W. HENDERSON, ESQUIRE 12 One Oxford Center 13 Pittsburgh, PA 15219 14 Phone: 412-261-6474 15 Representing the Plaintiffs 16 17 MONTGOMERY, MC CRACKEN, 18 WALKER & RHOADS, LLP 19 BY: JOYCE S. MEYERS, ESQUIRE 20 123 South Broad Street 21 Philadelphia, PA 19109 22 Phone: 215 - 772-7452 23 Representing the Defendant Courtaulds 24 Aerospace, Inc. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 4 HOYLE, MORRIS & KERR BY: SUSAN K. HERSCHEL, ESQUIRE One Liberty Place - Suite 4900 1650 Market Street Philadelphia, PA 19103-7397 Phone: 215-981-5770 Representing the Defendant CertainTeed ! ? t J f 1 WHITE & WILLIAMS 3 2 BY: THOMAS M. GOUTMAN, ESQUIRE 3 KATHY A. O'NEILL, ESQUIRE 4 WILLIAM YOUNGBLOOD, ESQUIRE 5 One Liberty Place - 18th Floor 6 1650 Market Street 7 Philadelphia, PA 19102 8 Phone: 215 - 864-7000 9 Representing the Defendant Monsanto 10 Corporation 11 12 DANAHER, TEDFORD, LAGNESE & NEAL, PC 13 BY: KENNETH R. NEAL, ESQUIRE 14 Capitol Place 15 21 Oak Street 16 Hartford, Connecticut 06106 17 Phone: 860-247-3666 18 Representing the Defendant U.S. 19 Mineral Company 20 21 22 23 24 . 1 INDEX 2 Testimony of: John P. Woodyard 3 By Mr. McClain 10 4 By Mr. Neal 137 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 5 PAGE d ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 4ii TOWOLDMONOQ60765 4 68 1 THE COURT: I received one 1 MR. NEAL: We can call her up 2 other bit of information which I think 2 and have her come back. 3 should be important and passed on. Frank 3 THE COURT: She called here m 4 was down at the jury selection board and 4 this morning. 5 brought back a copy of the notice, the 5 MR. NEAL: Is that right? 6 summons to a prospective juror, which 6 THE COURT: She wanted a 7 contains a qualifying questionnaire, and 7 letter about returning to work. So I just 8 the first question of the qualifying 8 wanted to introduce you to this additional 9 questionnaire, on the qualifying 9 document that we did not have yesterday. 10 questionnaire is, "Have you ever been 10 MR. GOUTMAN: I appreciate it, 11 convicted of a crime punishable by 11 Your Honor. 12 imprisonment by more than one year? Yes 12 MR. EDGE: And that's the main 13 or no." Now, of course there are other 13 one. That goes to the house. Everybody's 14 questions that are more innocuous, but we 14 house. 15 were wondering how the jury selection 15 THE COURT: Which gives them 16 group handled that issue, and they did, 16 the date that they are supposed to report 17 and here's the summons, and, of course, 17 for jury duty. 18 that is signed and sent back, so that 18 Who do we -- t 19 question was asked of her when she was 19 MR. MCCLAIN: Woodyard. * 20 summoned for jury duty. 20 THE COURT: Any questions? 21 MS. MEYERS: How is a person 21 MR. GOUTMAN: No. We have a 22 supposed to know whether the crime is 22 different witness today. Mr. Hirsh had to 23 punishable by imprisonment for more than 23 return to Harrisburg, so Mr. Woodyard is 24 one year when she only got probation? 24 back from Chicago. 79 1 THE COURT: I'm not disputing; 1 THE COURT: As soon as we know 2 we were concerned about whether she knew 2 that all of the jurors are in we will 3 to answer that question. 3 start. 4 By the way, she didn't 4 MR. MCCLAIN: Are they here. 5 realize, I think, that having gotten 5 Frank? 6 probation she was per se guilty in a 6 MR. EDGE: No, we need two 7 criminal sense. She got money; she had to 7 more. 8 pay it back. She had to make restitution. 8 In the name of the 9 She was doing that. But I'm not 9 Commonwealth of Pennsylvania this 10 representing her; merely supposing. 10 Commonwealth Court is now declared open, 11 MS. HERSCHEL: So the 11 the Honorable Charles P. Mirarchi, Jr., 12 assumption is, Your Honor, that she 12 presiding. Please be seated. 13 answered that question no when she filled 13 Good morning, Your Honor. 14 it out and sent it back? 14 THE COURT: Good morning. i 15 THE COURT: Right. We didn't 15 (Jury responds good morning). 16 pull her file to see if she answered no, 16 THE COURT: Mr. Goutman. 17 although that might be interesting, to see 17 MR. MCCLAIN: I'm in the 18 how she answered it. 18 middle of my Cross with Mr. Woodyard, I 19 MR. EDGE: I could find out. 19 believe. 20 Judge. 20 MR. GOUTMAN: With agreement 21 THE COURT: I think that would 21 of counsel. Your Honor, I'm going to 22 be a good thing to look into, Frank. 22 explain to the jury that Mr. Hirsh had to 23 Because she if answered it yes, it raises 23 return to Harrisburg, so Mr. Woodyard is i 24 all kinds of interesting magillas. 24 back on the witness stand. He was in the ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60766 10 1 middle of Cross some time ago, so 2 Mr. Woodyard is back. 3 MR. EDGE: Just state your 4 full name for the record, sir. 5 THE WITNESS: JohnP. 6 Woodyard. 7 MR. EDGE: I remind you that 8 you are still under oath. 9-- 10 JOHN P. WOODYARD, recalled. 11 -- 12 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 13 Q. Just in case you didn't hear 14 that, somebody said, Mr. Woodyard, who's on 15 first and I said Woodyard. That was the 16 joke. 17 Good morning, ladies and 18 gentlemen. 19 (Jury responds good morning) 20 Good morning, Mr. Woodyard. 21 A. Good morning. 22 Q. Welcome back. 23 There was something that I 24 looked into while you were away. You had 12 1 MS. HERSCHEL: Mr. McClain, 2 can you tell us what 3 MR. MC CLAIN: Page five. 4 MS. HERSCHEL: -page? 5 MR. MCCLAIN: Five. 6 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 7 Q. Do you remember this language. 8 Mr. Woodyard? The abrupt U.S. PCB ban. 9 A. You are pointing where? I'm 10 sorry. 11 Q. Five. 12 A. Yes, sir. 13 Q. And do you remember telling me. 14 sir, in your testimony that the term abrupt 15 U.S. ban is not something I think I would 16 have written? 17 A. That's right. 18 Q. And you told me that the way 19 that I could check on that, you said at page 20 125 again you said, "I would not have used a 21 term like abrupt U.S. PCB ban because there 22 wasn't an abrupt U.S. PCB ban." Do you see 23 that? 24 A. Yes, sir. i n 1 said in your testimony, when I was examining 2 this book with you, that it had been changed 3 to a black edition, and so I got from my 4 local library on inter-library loan, I'm 5 sorry, I didn't buy another copy, a copy of 6 your black edition of this book. Do you 7 remember the discussion you and I had last 8 time you were here about the blue edition and 9 black edition? 10 A. Yes, sir, I do. 11 Q. And you told me at that time 12 that an editor had snuck some words in this 13 book. Do you remember that discussion? 14 A. Yes. I believe I said that the 15 books weren't the same. I couldn't recall 16 exactly where the changes were, but there 17 were some odd things that some editors had 18 done. 19 Q. Well, particularly what you told 20 me was that a phrase that I had pointed out 21 to you in this book, "The abrupt U.S. PCB ban 22 in 1976 was partly motivated by the discovery 23 of widespread low level PCB contamination 24 world wide." 13 1 Q. And so I went and looked in your 2 black book that you told me was the correct 3 edition of the book. Confirm for me, if you 4 would, that in the black book as well you 5 say, "The abrupt U.S. PCB ban in '76 was 6 partly motivated by the discovery of 7 widespread, low level, PCB contamination 8 world wide." 9 A. That's correct. 10 THE COURT: What page was 11 that? 12 MR. MC CLAIN: That's page 13 five of his black edition, Your Honor. 14 THE COURT: The same 15 numerical -- 16 MR. MC CLAIN: The same page. 17 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 18 Q. And so when you told the jury 19 when you were here on February second that 20 you would not have used that word that was 21 not correct; am I right? 22 A. That's right. I was mistaken. 23 Q. You did, in fact, use it in both 24 editions. 4 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60767 14 16 1 A. Yes, sir. 1 recommendation based upon NIOSH's 2 Q. Now, the subject, of course, was 2 recommendation that the one clean-up standard 3 that PCBs were banned becaqse of discovery of 3 be used. The one microgram clean-up 4 widespread low level PCB contamination world 4 standard. Do you remember that discussion? 5 wide; am I right? 5 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, Your 6 We should have pulled out the 6 Honor. That was not the record. I would 7 big boards. 7 like to go to side bar so as not to make a 8 A. No, I should have worn my 8 speaking objection. 9 bifocals today. 9 (Side bar discussion). n 10 Yes, that's correct. 10 THE COURT: Let's try here. i 11 Q. And that is true today, isn't 11 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, the 12 it? We have a world wide low level PCB 12 sequence, and I reviewed this last night, 13 contamination problem world wide. That's 13 the sequence of the testimony of 14 true? 14 Mr. Woodyard the last time he was here, it 15 A. No, that's not correct. 15 seems a while ago, but I did review the i 16 Q. That's what you wrote. 16 testimony, and that was that he was shown 17 A. There is evidence of PCB, 17 a document from NIOSH dating from 1995 18 extremely low level PCB contamination in the 18 recommending that the Department of Health 19 environment. 19 decide whether they wanted to follow the 20 Q. World wide. 20 NIOSH level or the EPA level, and then he 21 A. Throughout the world, yes. 21 was shown a document from one year earlier 22 Characterizing it as a problem is incorrect. 22 from DGS to the Department of Health 23 It is well below any levels that people 23 saying will you give us a recommendation. 24 consider harmful to human health. 24 That was one year earlier. Plaintiffs 15 1 Q. And it is a manufactured 2 problem, isn't it? In other words, it didn't 3 occur naturally. It was manufactured by a 4 company; am I right? 5 A. No, again, it is not a problem. 6 The PCBs, in fact, were manufactured by a 7 company. The fact that they are widespread 8 is due to releases, to mismanagement, to a 9 number of other things that we don't quite 10 understand. 11 Q. And it's not a natural process, 12 is it? 13 A. The process of a material like 14 that moving into the environment is certainly 15 a natural process. 16 Q. The manufacture of this material 17 was not a natural process, was it? 18 A. No, it is a synthetic product. 19 Q. All right. When we broke we had 20 looked, we had been looking at a series of 21 documents. We were talking about the 22 Commonwealth's use of the NIOSH clean-up 23 standard, and I think that when we broke we 24 were dealing with the Department of Health's 17 1 counsel's question now says that the 2 Department of Health was making a 3 recommendation as suggested by NIOSH. 4 He's got the years backwards. 5 MR. MC CLAIN: I'm sorry, but 6 you are not correct. Here's the letter 7 that, the Department of Health letter, and 8 it says, "After consultation with NIOSH we 9 have reviewed available PCB information 10 from numerous sources and are able to 11 recommend, NIOSH recommends that 12 occupational exposures can be used", so it 13 is all here to -- 14 MR. GOUTMAN: No, in reference 15 to that that is accurate. 16 MR. MC CLAIN: That's where 17 I'm going. 18 MR. GOUTMAN: I didn't 19 understand that to be the reference in 20 your question. 21 MR. MCCLAIN: Thank you. 22 MR. GOUTMAN: I withdraw my 23 objection. 24 BY MR. MC CLAIN: ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60768 18 1 Q. Mr. Woodyard, we were talking 2 about a letter that I will hand you again. 3 Counsel, it is Exhibit 3524. I'm sorry that 4 I didn't -- I gave you a copy last time and 5 I hope you still have it. 6 MR. GOUTMAN: Yes, I do, 7 Mr. McClain. 8 MR. MCCLAIN: Because I'm 9 going to put it up on the screen. You can 10 see it that way, too. 11 THE COURT: Is that a Monsanto 12 or, 3524 or was that -- 13 MR. MCCLAIN: Penn. Penn, 14 Your Honor. 15 Your Honor, I will hand you 16 the other copy and I will maybe ask 17 Mr. Woodyard to step down. 18 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 19 Q. I'm sorry, Mr. Woodyard. That 20 may be inconvenient, but did I give you a 21 copy? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. If you can back that up, 24 Mr. Henderson, so I can read it and then 20 1 able to recommend that the Commonwealth 2 follow the same recommendation issued by 3 NIOSH relating to potential PCB exposure to 4 workers and the public in air and on work 5 place surfaces." 6 Isn't that right? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. Go down, Mr. Henderson, would 9 you, to the NIOSH recommendation? 10 MR. HENDERSON: You can still 11 call me Tom. 12 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 13 Q. "NIOSH recommends that 14 occupational exposure to PCBs be reduced to 15 the lowest feasible level results of several 16 investigations of PCB surface contamination 17 in office buildings indicate that there's a 18 background level of surface contamination in 19 the range of .5 to one micrograms per 100 20 square centimeters; therefore, for surfaces 21 in the occupational environment that may be 22 routinely contacted by unprotected skin, 23 NIOSH investigators have recommended that PCB 24 contamination not exceed one microgram per 19 1 because I have given all of my copies away. 2 If you can focus it for us, bring it up 3 larger and focus it. 4 Your Honor, can we get some 5 courses on running this thing for 6 Mr. Henderson? Is that something The 7 Court's budget would allow? 8 THE COURT: I think it would 9 fit into the budget. I thought he was 10 doing well. 11 MR. MCCLAIN: It is 12 illegible. I have to do everything. 13 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 14 Q. This is the letter from Dr. 15 Noonan, the medical doctor, MPH, that was the 16 head of the Pennsylvania Department of Health 17 back in 1994; am I right? 18 A. Yes, sir. 19 Q. And he says, in response to the 20 question from the Department of General 21 Services and Department of Transportation, 22 "After consultation with NIOSH, we have 23 reviewed available PCB information from a 24 number of sources, NIOSH, OSHA, EPA, and are 21 1 100 square centimeters, the lowest feasible 2 level considering background contamination." 3 That was the recommendation that 4 the Department of Health made in 1994; isn't 5 that true? 6 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. And it is true, isn't it, that 8 they copied the other persons in the 9 Department of Health: Dr. Noonan, Mr. Hersh, 10 Dr. Logue, and the legislative offices, etc.; 11 am I right? 12 A. Yes, sir. 13 Q. This appears to be Dr. Hersh's 14 copy of the document because it is checked; 15 right? 16 A. Yes. That's correct. 17 Q. And from that time on, 1994, as 18 far as you know, that was the standard that 19 was put in place in the Transportation & 20 Safety Building; am I right? 21 A. No, actually that's incorrect. 22 That's the recommendation that was provided 23 in 1994. 24 Q. Yes. * ]! t 1 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60769 t 22 24 1 A- Internally. i 2 Q. Yes. 1 A. I don't recall my exact 2 language, but I characterized it as being 3 A. It wasn't until 1995 that NIOSH 3 something that I had only experienced in my 4 even provided a formal recommendation or 4 many years of work in transformer fire 5 feedback to the state. During that 5 situations. Never in a PCB release of any 6 two-and-a-half year period, up until the 6 kind. a 7 clean-up, even though the Department of 8 Health had adopted this in a memo, they never 7 Q. Have you read doctor - you know 8 who Dr. Melius is, don't you? 9 actually adhered to that standard. They 9 A. Yes, I'm familiar with him. 10 continued to operate, occupy the building at 10 Q. And you know that he is a 11 levels as high as ten micrograms. 11 recognized PCB health expert in the field? 12 Q. There were a number of things 12 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, Your i 13 that were done, but from 1994 on the 13 Honor. He's trying to requalify one of 14 recommendation of the Department of Health 14 his own witnesses. I don't think that's 15 was a one microgram standard; am I right? 15 appropriate through this witness. 16 That was the Department of Health's 16 MR. MC CLAIN: No, I'm not. i 17 recommendation from that time on; am I right? 17 I'm just asking him whether he knows about 18 A. That was the recommendation they 18 Dr. Melius. ! 19 wrote. That wasn't the standard that they 19 MR. GOUTMAN: I don't think it 20 followed. 20 is an appropriate question. 21 Q. Did the Department of Health 21 THE COURT: The question is is 22 ever vary from the one microgram standard, as 22 he, not that he knows that he is, so you 23 far as you know? 23 may, the objection is sustained, and you 24 A. Absolutely. The building, as we 24 may rephrase the question. 23 25 1 have seen from the data, had levels on 1 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 2 average between one and ten micrograms on 2 Q. You know Dr. Melius. 3 every floor. The Department of Health 3 A. Yes, I'm familiar with him. 4 continued to occupy the building. 4 Q. Are you familiar with his 5 Q. Show me any place where the 5 qualifications? 6 Department of Health ever made a different 6 A. I am familiar with him having 7 recommendation besides this, Mr. Woodyard. 7 encountered him on some transformer fires. 8 Do you have a document? 8 Q. He has been involved in some 9 A. No, I'm not claiming that at 9 expert panels on some of these buildings? 10 all; I'm just saying that they wrote this 10 A. At least one that I know of. i 11 down and they didn't abide by it. 11 Q. And you know that he's well 12 Q. Well, I don't want to argue with 12 known throughout the regulated community that 13 you. My question is very specific. This was 13 deals with PCBs; am I right? 14 the recommendation of the Department of 14 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection. This :I 15 Health in 1994; am I right? 15 is counsel testifying on behalf of his own 16 A. Yes, sir. 16 expert. 17 Q. And that continued to be the 17 THE COURT: Sustained. 18 recommendation until the building was 18 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 19 evacuated; am I right? 19 Q. And has he been active in the 20 A. Yes, it was, in writing, but not 20 issue of PCB contamination in buildings? 21 in practice. 21 A. His participation on projects 22 Q. Now, you mentioned your belief 22 that I'm familiar with has always been 23 that the NIOSH standard should only be 23 related to dioxins and furans, these 24 applied to transformer fires; am I right? 24 combustion by-products that we talked about I ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060770 i 26 1 before that are caused when transformer fires 2 occur. PCBs are also involved in these 3 projects, but the standard is typically set 4 for the dioxins and furans, so whether or not 5 he has any knowledge of PCBs is almost 6 irrelevant in these cases. 7 Q. Have you reviewed his testimony 8 in this case? 9 A. I may have. It has been a 10 while. 11 Q. Let me see if this refreshes 12 your recollection whether you have seen this 13 before. 14 MR. GOUTMAN: Can we approach. 15 Your Honor? 16 THE COURT: Yes. 17 (Side bar discussion). 18 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, it 19 is improper to attempt to impeach one 20 side's expert witness by reading the 21 testimony of another side's expert. It's 22 not an authoritative treatise. It is not 23 appropriate impeachment. He can't take 24 out and regurgitate his case in chief and 28 1 you can't just read your case in chief and 2 say do you agree or disagree with this. 3 That is improper. 4 MR. MCCLAIN: This is Cross 5 examination. 6 MR. GOUTMAN: It is improper 7 Cross examination. 8 MR. MC CLAIN: This is already 9 in the record. 10 MR. GOUTMAN: It doesn't 11 matter. 12 MR. MC CLAIN: This is already 13 in the record, Your Honor. The jury has 14 already heard it. The question I have 15 asked is not improper. 16 THE COURT: No, but it is. I 17 think what I'm hearing is that the 18 repetition of that testimony is giving 19 more substance to that testimony than what 20 the jury may give to it when they have an 21 opportunity to deliberate, whereas that is 22 not a factual situation that is adopted 23 completely, but it is a position that the 24 jury may find to exist, and therefore The 7 J 27 1 say do you agree with it or disagree with 2 it. 3 MR. MC CLAIN: He states that 4 the NIOSH standard only should be applied 5 in transformer fires. Dr. Melius offered 6 testimony contrary to that. I want to 7 know why he is the only one that thinks 8 that this only applies to transformer 9 fires. 10 MR. GOUTMAN: You can't do it 11 that way. 12 MR. MCCLAIN: You can do it 13 that way. 14 MR. GOUTMAN: You can't put on 15 your case again by reading your case in 16 chief to my witnesses and say, Do you 17 disagree or agree with that? This witness 18 already said that he views Dr. Melius's 19 qualifications in a very limited area. If 20 you want to show him one of Dr. Melius's 21 treatises or articles that he has written, 22 he hasn't written many, but if you want to 23 show him one and ask if this witness 24 believes it is authoritative, fine, but 29 1 Court sustains the objection. 2 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 3 Q. Do you know that both Dr. Melius 4 and Dr. Lemen -- 5 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, Your 6 Honor. He is about to repeat -- I think this 7 Court has ruled on that. I object. 8 THE COURT: I don't know what 9 the question is yet. 10 MR. GOUTMAN: Well, I think 11 the question is the problem. 12 MR. MC CLAIN: No, it is not 13 and I object to being interrupted on every 14 single question. 15 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, if 16 counsel -- 17 MR. MC CLAIN: It is not 18 appropriate. I didn't even ask a question 19 yet. 20 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, that 21 kind of comment should be made at side bar 22 and counsel knows it. 23 MR. MC CLAIN: Your Honor, I'm 24 frustrated. i '] # ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60771 30 32 1 THE COURT: We are going to 1 uncertain, asked to approach side bar 2 take a brief recess, Frank. 2 because I wasn't certain as where 3 MR. EDGE: This Court will 3 Plaintiff's counsel was going and I didn't 4 take a recess to the call of the crier. 4 want to make a speaking objection. The 5 MR. HENDERSON: Off the 5 second objection was sustained and I 6 record. 6 thought that counsel was going to ask a 7 (Off the record discussion) 7 question in derogation of The Court's 8 MR. MC CLAIN: Judge, it has a 8 earlier ruling. If that is a false 9 horrible disruptive effect on my ability 9 supposition I certainly apologize, but I 10 to ask questions before I can even get the 10 believe that the record will be clear that 11 question out to be interrupted with an 11 counsel has asked, on any number of 12 objection. I understood your ruling at 12 occasions, questions that were 1 13 the bench and I wasn't going to ask the 13 objectionable and The Court sustained the 14 question you told me not to ask. He's had 14 objection. It is certainly my obligation 15 to withdraw one objection so far that has 15 to my client to raise those objections 16 disrupted it and I don't want to come to 16 when I deem appropriate. What I object to 17 the bench before I ever ask a question 17 is when counsel, in open Court, makes a 18 each time. 18 speech in which he accuses me of 19 THE COURT: First of all, we 19 attempting to disrupt, in open Court 20 called a recess because it was getting a 20 before the jury, attempting to disrupt his 21 little bit personal, and Mr. McClain had 21 Cross examination. If he feels that it 22 not asked an improper question at that 22 should be made to The Court; not to the 23 point. It was a supposition on 23 jury, and I object to that. And there's 24 Mr. Goutman's part that he might ask an 24 no excuse for it, Your Honor. 31 33 1 improper question. The Court can't assume 1 MR. MC CLAIN: Yes, there is 2 that it is an improper question. 2 an excuse for it and let me tell you how 3 MR. HENDERSON: Of course not. 3 it develops, Mr. Goutman, just so you can 4 THE COURT: That's what we are 4 understand. What happened was that you 5 getting to. 5 stood up and started to object in the 6 MR. HENDERSON: The broader 6 middle of my question and The Corn! said 7 question is that this is disruptive and, 7 he hasn't even got his question out to you 8 frankly, based on what I have seen the 8 and you began making a further explanation 4 ) 9 last few days, including this morning, I 9 of your objection. You didn't ask to come 10 think it is a strategy not to permit 10 to side bar, and that then required me to 11 Mr. McClain to finish his questions, not 11 respond where I was standing, so these 12 to permit him to continue to effectively 12 improper statements that you make, you 13 Cross examine the witness. It happened 13 accuse me of, are invited by the way that 14 yesterday and it has already happened 14 you are approaching this thing and making 15 three times this morning. 15 objections, and the problem is is that it 16 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 111 16 is disruptive of my examination. Whether 17 leave aside that personal attack that I'm 17 you mean to do it or not it is and it 18 strategically and improperly trying to 18 continues to be. It is on every witness. 19 disrupt any Cross examination. I make 19 And so it leaves me a bit frustrated in 20 objections when I believe that a question 20 representing my client, on a witness that 21 has evidentiary problems with it. The 21 I believe is very vulnerable to Cross 22 Court, indeed, has sustained my 22 examination. It concerns me and it 23 objections. I think I have made three 23 concerns me that every question I have 24 objections. I withdrew one because I was 24 asked this morning you asked to approach ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60772 34 1 side bar on. 2 MR. GOUTMAN: That's 3 inaccurate and The Court knows that that 4 statement is inaccurate. In any event, I 5 mean, counsel has perhaps asked 70 6 questions and I have made three 7 objections. In any event, Your Honor, I 8 anticipated, perhaps wrongly, the question 9 and The Court was correct in noting that. 10 We shall now hear the question. My fear 11 was that we were going to get isn't it 12 true that Dr. Melius and Dr. Lemen said 13 that and that was the gist of The Court's 14 ruling, but perhaps I was too quick at the 15 trigger, and that would be the only 16 problem. 17 MS. HERSCHEL: And in that 18 instance, Your Honor, one of the problems 19 is with the jury hearing that question, 20 especially after the colloquy that we just 21 had at side bar. 22 THE COURT: The Court doesn't 23 presume that counsel is going to ask an 24 improper question. The Court can't assume 36 1 objection, it would be best to permit the 2 Cross examination to proceed without 3 interruption, although if there's a vital 4 reason for objection The Court is 5 certainly not curtailing the rights of 6 counsel to protect the interests of their 7 client. 8 MR. GOUTMAN: Well, Your 9 Honor -- 10 THE COURT: That works both 11 sides. 12 MR. GOUTMAN: Well, Your 13 Honor, I believe that many of Plaintiffs 14 counsel's questions and Cross examination 15 of our witnesses has been improper and I 16 will, as I think I must, in obligation to 17 my client, continue to object rightly and 18 appropriately, and I certainly don't view 19 anything that The Court has said 20 suggesting otherwise, and I certainly have 21 no intent and do not want to simply make 22 an objection for the purpose of 23 disruption. Thank you. 24 THE COURT: Anything further? 35 1 that. And The Court does regret when 2 counsel, both counsel, this isn't 3 earmarked to any one person, makes 4 improper personal charges against another 5 attorney. There's no place for it. And 6 each of you are, I think, among the top 7 attorneys and consequently it would not 8 behoove you to reduce yourselves to 9 personal attacks. Doing so in front of 10 the jury is certainly improper. 11 The length of this trial 12 undoubtedly has caused some testiness to 13 develop from time to time, and that's not 14 inconceivable, but by the same token, we 15 have to be more on guard. Ergo, we will 16 not have argument in front of the jury on 17 any issue. That's why The Court calls the 18 side bar, to give each an opportunity to 19 explain their position out of the presence 20 of the jury so that we don't infuse the 21 jury with information that they should not 22 be privy to or consider when they do 23 deliberate. 24 Unless there is a real serious 37 1 MR. MCCLAIN: No, Your Honor. 2 THE COURT: Okay. Let's bring 3 the jury back. 4 MR. EDGE: You may be seated. 5 This Court is back in session. 6 THE COURT: Mr. McClain. 7 MR. MC CLAIN: Your Honor, 8 Mr. Edge moved this TV up and my mother 9 would never let me watch TV this close. 10 MR. EDGE: It is bad for your 11 eyes. 12 MR. MCCLAIN: It is bad for 13 your eyes, so we will move it back with 14 his assistance. Now he has unplugged it. 15 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 16 Q. Mr. Woodyard, just one last 17 question on this area. Do you know whether 18 or not Dr. Melius was ever employed by NIOSH? 19 A. Yes, he was. 20 Q. And do you know whether Dr. 21 Lemen was employed by NIOSH? 22 A. I don't know. 23 Q. And just to remind us, were you 24 ever employed by NIOSH? i i J n ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60773 38 1 A. No, sir. 2 Q. Now, let's go to the next area, 3 an area that you talked about, and that was 4 loosely defined an analysis of fireproofing 5 bulk samples. That's contained in your 6 report. 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. Table five.Do you have your 9 report with you? 10 A. Yes, I do. Just a second. 11 A. What page is that on? I'm 12 sorry. 13 Q. The table is at page 32, but I 14 want to first discuss the narrative that you 15 supplied in your report, if we might. 16 A. Okay. 17 Q. You statehere in the narrative 18 finally, samples of asbestos debris -- 19 THE COURT: Mr. McClain, what 20 page? Excuse me. 21 MR. MCCLAIN: I'm sorry, Your 22 Honor. It is page 31,1 believe. Do I 23 have the correct page? 24 MS. HERSCHEL: Yes. 40 1 collected before the fire by Ewing from Mr. 2 Goutman; is that right? Mr. Goutman gave you 3 that information. 4 A. Yes, that's correct. 5 Q. And you relied upon the 6 information that he gave you; am I right? 7 A. The information as to who took 8 the samples of my analysis of the data. 9 Q. You put it in your report, 10 didn't you? 11 A. Yes, but I didn't use it as a 12 basis for looking at the data and deciding 13 what it meant. 14 Q. And it was incorrect, wasn't it? 15 A. Yes, that's true, it was not 16 Mr. Ewing; it was Law Engineering. 17 Q. And that information came from 18 Mr. Goutman is my only point. 19 A. That's correct. 20 Q. And what you now know is that 21 Mr. Ewing did not take however many samples 22 that you have in this report. What is it; 24 23 samples before the fire; am I right? 24 A. I believe it is 28. 39 1 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 2 Q. Page 31. It says -- have you 3 found it, Your Honor? 4 THE COURT: Yes. 5 MR. MCCLAIN: It is the 6 paragraph beginning "finally". 7 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 8 Q. "Finally, samples of asbestos 9 debris were collected before the fire by 10 Ewing and analyzed recently for this report." 11 You now know that statement to 12 be in error, do you not, Mr. Woodyard? 13 A Yes, sir, Mr. Goutman indicated 14 to me at the time that Mr. Ewing, or at least 15 he thought Mr. Ewing was employed by Law 16 Engineering, the people that actually took 17 the samples. 18 Q. So this information in your 19 report came from Mr. Goutman; is that right? 20 A. No, what came from Mr. Goutman 21 was the identification of Mr. Ewing as the 22 sampler. 23 Q. Right. You got that information 24 that the samples of asbestos debris were 41 1 Q. He only took six before the 2 fire; am I right? Ewing, that is. 3 A. That's correct. The samples 4 that are on the table aren't Mr. Ewing's 5 samples. 6 Q. So when you say, "These samples 7 presumably represent 'outer' fireproofing 8 that fell on the top of the ceiling tiles 9 over a period of years", that, too, may be 10 incorrect. 11 A. It is possible. That's correct. 12 Q. You have no real idea whether or 13 not these are outer fireproofing samples that 14 fell on top of ceiling tiles over the years 15 either, are you? 16 A. No, I am certain they are not 17 samples that fell on to ceiling tiles. What 18 is possible is that they still are outer 19 samples. I don't know that. 20 Q. You have don't know one way or 21 the other. 22 A. That's correct. 23 Q. But at the time that's what you 24 reported because you had received some ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES $ TOWOLDMONOQ60774 42 1 information from Mr. Goutman that they were 2 debris samples collected by Ewing; am I 3 right? 4 A. No, Mr. Goutman simply 5 identified Mr. Ewing as the sampler and 6 Mr. Ewing's report or testimony, somewhere he 7 described where he had collected his samples 8 and I was the one who made that connection 9 and included that information in my report. 10 Q. But the samples that actually 11 were - actually, you don't even know whether 12 they were asbestos debris samples, do you? 13 A. The samples that were 14 collected15 Q. The samples that were analyzed 16 here, you don't know that they were debris 17 samples. 18 A. No, I know they were asbestos 19 samples. 20 Q. And you don't know whether they 21 are outer or inner samples, do you? 22 A. As I said, they are asbestos 23 samples. They could well be outer. I'm sure 24 they are not inner samples. 44 1 Q. And so you don't know in this 2 case how the samples were taken, how deep 3 they took the samples, or anything else 4 because you never interviewed anyone from Law 5 Engineering about what they did; isn't that 6 right? 7 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection. 8 That's a compound question, Your Honor. 9 THE COURT: Overruled. 10 THE WITNESS: It is true that 11 I didn't interview anybody from Law to 12 find out exactly how they took the 13 samples. That's correct. 14 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 15 Q. And you had assumed that, 16 because you had reviewed Ewing's testimony 17 and what he collected was debris samples, 18 that this would be outer samples of 19 fireproofing; am I right? 20 A. That's what I stated in my 21 report, that's correct. 22 Q. It may not be true. You just 23 don't know. 24 A. That's correct. 4 i t 43 1 Q. Do you know? 2 A. Absolutely. 3 Q. How? 4 A. Because they were collected by 5 Law Engineering as part of an asbestos 6 survey. I have never seen anyone do an 7 asbestos survey where they scraped away the 8 outer fireproofing to sample inner 9 fireproofing except in this case where you 10 are looking for something other than 11 asbestos. 12 Q. Isn't it true that the way you 13 take samples, bulk samples of material, 14 Mr. Woodyard, I'm sorry, I was going to say 15 Hirsh but you are not him, isn't the way that 16 you take fireproofing samples that you take a 17 container, at least one of the ways you do 18 it, you take a container and press it into 19 the fireproofing and turn it? 20 A. That's one way 21 Q. That's one way that can include 22 both the surface layer of fireproofing and 23 material interior; am I right? 24 A. That's true. 45 1 Q. And you now know that these are 2 samples that were collected by Law and they 3 then went through a laboratory called Gannett 4 Fleming; isn't that true? 5 A. I went through a lab called 6 Gannett Fleming? I'm sorry. 7 Q. Didn't the samples, didn't the 8 samples go from Law Engineering, who 9 collected them, to a company called Gannett 10 Fleming, a laboratory that you are aware 11 exists? 12 A. Yes, I believe you are right. 13 Q. And from that laboratory then 14 they were sent to Mr. Goutman and then to 15 you; am I right? 16 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, Your 17 Honor. 18 MR. MC CLAIN: Let me clarify. 19 The samples were sent from my office, from 20 Gannett Fleming -- wait. From Gannett 21 Fleming to my office to Mr. Goutman to 22 you; am I right? 23 THE WITNESS: Almost. 24 MR. MCCLAIN: Is that the I i ] ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60775 46 48 1 clarification you wanted, Mr. Goutman? 1 sample results that were supplied to us, 2 MR. GOUTMAN: Thank you. 2 4009. 3 MR. MCCLAIN: You are 3 Now, this is the chart that is 4 welcome. 4 in your report, Table 5. 5 THE WITNESS: Yes, they were 5 This is at page 32, Your Honor. 6 sent to you, to Mr. Goutman, who in turn 6 I'm going to show this chart first. 7 sent them directly to the laboratory that 7 THE COURT: Fine. 8 he was using. He didn't send them to me. 8 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 9 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 9 Q. And this chart comes from, at 10 Q. So you have no ownership in that 10 least in part, from this document; am I 11 laboratory; am I right? 11 right? Exhibit 4009. 12 A. That's correct. 12 A. The analytical - I didn't look 13 Q. And you didn't receive the 13 through the whole document. The analytical .j 14 samples at the laboratory, did you? 14 results do, that's correct. 15 A. No, I did not. 15 O. And the descriptions that are 16 Q. Did the samples arrive with a 16 contained on these also come from Exhibit j 17 cover letter or any instruction to the 17 4009, don't they? 18 laboratory about how they were to be 18 A. The sample numbers? 19 analyzed? 19 Q. Sample numbers and the ? 20 A. No, I believe the samples were 20 descriptions about the locations of the 21 simply transmitted with a one or two line 21 samples or did you have another source of 22 transmittal letter, I suspect. 22 information for them? 23 Q. Did you ever see it? Did you 23 A. The sample numbers, yes, are on 24 ever that transmittal letter? 24 these documents. The sample description of 47 4 9 1 A. No, I don't think so. 1 where it came from I believe I would have 2 Q. So you don't know whether there 2 taken off of the actual labels that came with 3 was a transmittal letter or not. 3 the bags of asbestos to the laboratory. 4 A. No, what happens is that when 4 Q. And they are in the back there 5 the laboratory received the samples they 5 as well, are they not? 6 called me, as they should, not knowing where 6 A. Okay. I'm sorry. Yes, they 7 they came from, and asked what should be done 7 are. 8 with those samples. 8 MR. MC CLAIN: Now, Your Honor, 9 Q. Meaning that they knew that if 9 I move into evidence exhibit 4009. 10 they came from Mr. Goutman they should call 10 THE COURT: Admitted. 11 you? 11 BY MR. MC CLAIN: I 12 A. Yes. There had been other 12 Q. Now, let's show the jury those, 13 sample transmittals. Somehow the samples 13 if we can. We have blown those labels up 14 were probably identified as being from White 14 that are part of 4009. Let's get those out. 15 & Williams. 15 Now, here's the sample log. r 16 Q. So the laboratory, seeing that 16 Your Honor, this is this page :) 17 they are from White and Williams, would 17 from the exhibit. (Indicating). 18 naturally know to call you; is that what you 18 THE WITNESS: Okay. 19 are saying? 19 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 20 A. Yes, sir. 20 Q. This is the form that relates to 21 Q. And do you recall that they did 21 the samples that are here on top; am I right? 22 call you? 22 (Indicating). 23 A. Yes, sir. 23 A. I'm sorry. Show me again. 24 Q. Let me show you a copy of the 24 Q. This document. (Indicating). ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES ,4 TOWOLDMONOQ60776 50 1 A. Yes, sir, the three digit 2 numbers that are, what I will call the 400 3 series -- 4 Q. 400 series. 5 A. That's correct. 6 Q. And on those there is no 7 description about where they came from at 8 all; am I right? 9 A That's correct. 10 Q. And so not only on those samples 11 do we not know whether they are inner or 12 outer samples, you don't even know what 13 floors they came from; am I right? 14 A That's correct. 15 Q. In fact, this document in the 16 comer, the one that we were just looking at. 17 we blew that up and it says labels 001 18 through 014 used oldest date of 6/6/92. No 19 date available on label; am I right? 20 A. That's correct. 21 Q. So there was no date available 22 on those labels either; right? On the 23 samples that we just looked at. 24 A. Right. 52 1 us, please. 2 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 3 again he is inviting the witness to 4 speculate. I object. 5 THE COURT: Sustained. 6 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 7 Q. Mr. Woodyard, do you know 8 anything about these samples other than that 9 they came from the Transportation & Safety 10 Building? 11 A. I also know that they came from 12 the Transportation & Safety Building before 13 the fire. 14 Q. And that's all? 15 A. That's correct. 16 Q. And because you couldn't 17 correlate them with any floor you didn't 18 correlate them with any of Mr. Kominsky's 19 samples either, did you? 20 A. That's correct. When I first 21 created this table on a piece of paper I was 22 trying to find a way to compare the results 23 with Mr. Kominsky's results, and for those 24 samples there was no location noted I 4 i ! 1 J 1 51 1 Q. They were not dated. 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. Now, the samples that are at the 4 top may have all been from one floor; am I 5 right? 6 A. I don't know where they came 7 from. 8 Q. So it is possible -- 9 A. Except that they came from the 10 Transportation & Safety Building before the 11 fire. 12 Q. It could have been all from one 13 location; am I right? 14 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection. Calls 15 for speculation. The witness said he 16 didn't know where they came from except 17 before the fire in the Transportation & 18 Safety Building. 19 THE COURT: Sustained. 20 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 21 Q. What are the possibilities. 22 Mr. Woodyard? You describe them for us. 23 Although you don't know which one is 24 possible -- describe the possibilities for . 53 1 couldn't do that, so that's why they are 2 separated on top. 3 MR. MCCLAIN: Now, Your 4 Honor, just so we are clear, Exhibit 4007 5 C is the label blow-up of the part where 6 it says that there are no dates available. 7 and then 4007 B. 8 THE COURT: 4000 C is the 9 labeled. 10 MR. MCCLAIN: It actually 11 reads, "Labels 001 through 014 used oldest 12 date of 6/6/92. No date available on 13 label." 14 MR. GOUTMAN: Mr. McClain, can 15 I just see where you are referring? 16 MR. MCCLAIN: It says 4007 C. 17 And the other one is 4007 B, and that is 18 the full page for those same samples. 19 MR. MC CLAIN: And the chart, 20 Your Honor, from Mr. Woodyard's table is 21 4007 A and I move all of those into 22 evidence at this time. 23 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 24 Q. Now, in regard to these other ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60777 54 1 samples, there was some information on these 2 labels which had descriptions; am I right? 3 A. Yes. Let me turn to that page. 4 It is a little easier to read it. 5 Yes, sir, it included sample 6 identification number, a location, a project 7 number, I assume Law Engineering's project 8 number, and a sample date for each of the 9 samples. 10 Q. Now, in regard to these samples 11 that had some description, the last four 12 digits are the same, are they not, as the 13 samples found on the top part of the chart, 14 450,450. 15 A. Yes, the last three digits. 16 Q. Did I say four? 17 A. I believe so. 18 Q. The last three. 451 is the same 19 as 451 here. 20 A. That's correct. 21 Q. And this is 452 here; am I 22 right? (Indicating). 23 A. Yes, that's true for all of the 24 samples. 56 1 different, aren't they, from the top to the 2 bottom? 3 A. Order of magnitude being a 4 factor of ten. 5 Q. Yes. 6 A. Yes, typically they are. 7 Q. And so we just don't know about 8 these top samples. 9 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection. 10 Vague. I don't know what that question 11 means, we just don't know. 12 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 13 Q. We don't know very much about 14 them. 15 How is that? 16 THE COURT: Overruled. 17 THE WITNESS: We know enough 18 about them to be able to put them on this 19 chart, which means that they were 20 collected in the Transportation & Safety 21 Building and they were collected before 22 the fire. 23 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 24 Q. Let me ask you a hypothetical. 55 57 1 Q. They correlate in terms of the 1 Okay? If these are split samples, the top 2 last three digits precisely with the other 2 samples are splits of the bottom, what impact 3 group of samples; am I right? 3 might that have on your conclusions? 4 A. Yes, sir. 4 MS. HERSCHEL: Objection. No 5 Q. And so do you know whether or 5 foundation. 6 not these are split samples? 6 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, he 7 A. Split samples from what? I'm 7 already testified he doesn't believe that 8 sorry. 8 they are split samples. He's asking him 9 Q. What are split samples? 9 to assume an opinion he doesn't hold and I 10 A. Split samples are where you 10 object. 11 collect a sample and divide it into two parts 11 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 12 to be analyzed separately. 12 Q. Mr. Woodyard, did you consider 13 Q. Do you know whether or not these 13 that possibility? i 14 samples at the top are split samples of these 14 15 at the bottom? 15 A. No. Q. Let me ask you this in regard to 16 A. I would certainly hope not. The 16 these samples: Did you make any further 17 analytical results are very, very different. 17 inquiry about whether someone could determine 18 Q. Yes, they are, aren't they? 18 where these samples had come from? 19 A. Yes, I would assume they are not 19 A Well, if I understand your 20 splits. 20 question correctly, I'm asking Mr. Goutman if 21 Q. But you don't know? 21 there was any other information associated 22 A. No. 22 with those samples and he said no. 23 Q. In fact, the numbers are so, 23 Q. Did Mr. Goutman show you the 24 they are almost in order of magnitude 24 Gannett Fleming report on these same samples, ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060778 58 1 Mr. Woodyard? 3542. 2 MS. HERSCHEL: Objection, Your 3 Honor. I think we are going to need to 4 come to side bar on this one. 5 MR. MC CLAIN: As to whether 6 or not Mr. Goutman showed them to him? 7 THE COURT: I don't know for 8 what reason, but we will take the hike. 9 Off the record. 10 (Side bar discussion). 11 MS. HERSCHEL: Your Honor, if 12 I was premature, especially in view of our 13 discussion a little while ago I apologize, 14 but not only did Mr. McClain ask the 15 question, he began distributing the 16 document as though it was a document that 17 he was about to use, and this is a 18 document that Your Honor has made a clear 19 ruling is inadmissible in this case. 20 MR. GOUTMAN: For the record, 21 it is September 2,1999. This is The 22 Court's ruling. Page 49. September 2, 23 page 49. Do you want a copy of that? 24 MR. MC CLAIN: I asked him 60 1 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 2 Q. Didn't you tell us that you had 3 reviewed Mr. Cocciardi's tests in this case, 4 his reports? 5 A. Yes, sir. 6 Q. And you commented on those to 7 us, didn't you, when you were here when you 8 were testifying on Direct about Mr. Cocciardi 9 and his work in the building? 10 A. In some form, I'm sure. 11 Q. Before we get to this Gannett 12 Fleming report, I just wanted to ask you if 13 you had reviewed Mr. Cocciardi's reports 14 found in Penn 901 and Penn 885. Don't answer 15 until I have given them to counsel because I 16 have copies for them. 17 THE COURT: I assume copies 18 will be given to me? 19 MR. MC CLAIN: I'm sorry, Your 20 Honor. These are in evidence. They are 21 901 and 885. 22 BY MR. MC CLAIN:; 23 Q. Did you review these, 24 Mr. Woodyard? 59 1 whether Mr. Goutman had showed him this 2 document. I have not yet asked him any 3 questions beyond that. The foundation 4 that I will lay with him will be for The 5 Court to find whether it is significant or 6 sufficient. This is, these are the 7 results. 8 THE COURT: While this 9 document was ruled out, if this document 10 was shown to Mr. Woodyard, and if he used 11 it or reviewed it, then it may have 12 relevancy in his testimony. 13 MR. GOUTMAN: If he relied 14 upon it and views the test results as 15 reliable. 16 MR. MC CLAIN: We will hear 17 the question and answer. 18 THE COURT: The question is 19 did he rely upon it. We are not at that 20 stage yet. 21 MS. HERSCHEL: If I was 22 premature, I apologize. 23 THE COURT: It was not 24 premature to raise the objection. 61 1 A. I don't recall. 2 Q. You don't recall whether you 3 reviewed these? 4 A. Not specifically, no. 5 Q. Look them over. Let me see if I 6 can refresh your recollection. Look over at 7 Mr. Cocciardi's report on Exhibit 885. 8 MR. GOUTMAN: Mr. McClain, can 9 you show me where you are referring to? I 10 don't know what report you are on now. 11 MR. MCCLAIN: I'm at 885 and 12 I want him to review conclusion two. 13 MR. GOUTMAN: Can you hold on 14 for just a second while we review it 15 before the question is asked? 16 MR. MCCLAIN: Sure. 17 THE COURT: When you say the 18 conclusion, may I see where you are -19 MR. MC CLAIN: Two, Your 20 Honor. 21 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 22 Q. Do you recall reviewing that. 23 Mr. Woodyard? 24 A. Not specifically, no. 4 { i ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES # i TOWOLDMONOQ60779 I 62 64 1 Q. Were you aware that samples were 1 information you had were the final results; 2 taken from the building and analyzed of 2 am I right? 3 pre-fire collected asbestos bulk samples? 3 A. No, there was a lot of samples 4 A. No, I think I at first became 4 that were done, collected by the state, 5 aware of this when we were provided the 5 analyzed that included the quality assurance 6 samples to analyze. 7 Q. Were you provided a copy of the 6 data, they had a quality assurance program. 7 A lot of their work had been audited by other 8 Gannett Fleming report? 8 people. 9 A. No, I was not. 9 Q. The Skelly and Loy results as an r| 10 Q. You were never provided that 10 example. 11 report? 12 A. No. 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. You looked at the results, 13 Q. And so were you aware that the 13 didn't you? 14 very samples that you did an analysis on had 14 A. I looked at a lot of results, 15 been sampled and tested and results reported 15 but I also looked at a lot of their back-up, 16 back on before you reported results? 16 including their blanks, etc. The typical 17 A. I forget when I became aware of 17 type of things that you would look at in a 18 it. It was within the last year or two that 18 quality assurance review. 19 there had been other analyses done on the 19 Q. Did you have back-up on every 20 same samples. 20 sample that you looked at, sir? 21 Q. And did you review those prior 21 A. I believe so. Well, I looked at 22 to coming to Court today? 22 thousands of samples. Some of them I took 23 A. No, I did not. 23 and I looked at because of the reports 24 Q. Why not? 24 available and I had more back-up. I didn't 63 65 1 A. When I first became aware of it 1 request back-up on every sample. 2 I asked for the report, the documentation 2 Q. You didn't request back-up on 3 associated with it. The attorneys with White 3 every sample. 4 & Williams tried to find back-up material for 4 A. Yes. 5 this report. In other words, an analytical 5 Q. But these that you had results 6 report that we could use to evaluate, and 6 on you didn't even look at the results? 7 they could find none. Apparently there was 7 A. No. 8 none available. 8 Q. Were you -- 9 Q. So you did review Exhibit 3542 9 A. Because I couldn't critique the 10 or not? I'm unclear of your answer. 10 results. l 11 A. No, I did not. 11 Q. Were you told not to look at the 12 Q. How did you even know to ask for 12 results? 13 back-up material if you didn't review it, 13 A. No, I couldn't critique the 14 Mr. Woodyard? 14 results. 15 A No, because I was made aware 15 Q. You just didn't want to know 16 that Gannett Fleming had done analysis of 16 what was-- 17 these same samples, but there was nothing but 17 THE COURT: Wait a minute. I 18 a summary of their analytical results. There 18 don't know if we heard the end of his ,i 19 was no quality assurance back-up from the 19 answer. 20 lab, there was nothing except this report 20 MR. MCCLAIN: Right. 21 which doesn't tell me anything except the 21 THE COURT: You may finish. 22 final results. (Indicating). 22 You were saying why you didn't -- 23 Q. Mr. Woodyard, you looked at 23 THE WITNESS: Right, I was 24 thousands of samples with the only 24 told that there was analytical results \ ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060780 66 1 available for these samples from Gannett 2 Fleming from back in 1994,1 guess it is, 3 but when I asked for documentation 4 associated with that there was none and 5 they could find none. Now, assuming that 6 they are different from my results, which 7 I guess this is what this is all about. 8 that would be a logical thing to want to 9 do, is to be prepared to start comparing 10 the results and figuring out why there is 11 a difference. There is no way I could 12 figure out why there would be a 13 difference. 14 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 15 Q. I want to ask you whether you 16 know, as you sit there, that there is a 17 difference between their results and your 18 results. Do you know that? 19 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, Your 20 Honor. It goes to the substance of the 21 report and the foundation hasn't been 22 laid. 23 THE COURT: Sustained. 24 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 68 1 MR. MC CLAIN: How do we know 2 until he answers? 3 THE COURT: Overruled. 4 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 5 Q. You just accepted their word 6 without even looking at the report? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Is that what a careful scientist 9 does, Mr. Woodyard; he just accepts what the 10 lawyer tells him and doesn't look at the 11 paper? 12 A. A careful scientist wants to 13 have enough information to do the kind of 14 analysis that would be required. Why confuse 15 the issue with information that is 16 incomplete, probably inadequate from a 17 laboratory that as far as I could tell has 18 never done a PCB analysis in its entire 19 business critique. 20 Q. How do you know that? 21 A. The testimony from Gannett 22 Fleming people that this Court has heard 23 indicated that they had no experience in 24 doing this kind of work. That's not the kind * t J 1 67 1 Q. Mr. Woodyard, does not a careful 2 scientist try to look at all of the 3 information that is available before 4 rendering an opinion? 5 A. Yes, provided the information is 6 complete enough for him to evaluate. 7 Q. If you didn't even look at the 8 results how do you know whether it was 9 complete enough or not to evaluate? I mean. 10 if you didn't even read the report how do you 11 know what it contained? 12 A. Because I asked what information 13 was available and I was told there was 14 nothing but the final numbers. 15 Q. Again, the lawyers told you 16 this? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Was it the lawyers that told you 19 this? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And you just accepted their word 22 without looking at the paper? 23 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, Your 24 Honor. That is a misleading question. 69 1 of laboratory that I, personally, or other 2 scientists would send PCBs tests to. 3 Q. Tell the jury who from Gannett 4 Fleming they heard from. Who from Gannett 5 Fleming have we ever heard from in this 6 courtroom? 7 A. I'm talking about deposition 8 testimony from Mr. Brown. 9 Q. Did the jury hear anything about 10 that? 11 A. No, I don't think so. I'm 12 sorry. I stand corrected. 13 Q. And so all we have is, I guess, 14 what the lawyers told you not to look at. 15 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, Your 16 Honor. That wasn't his testimony. 17 THE COURT: Sustained. 18 MR. MC CLAIN: Let me withdraw 19 it. 20 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 21 Q. You didn't look at it because of 22 what the lawyers told you; am I right? 23 A. I didn't look at it because 24 there was no additional back-up associated ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES # TOWOLDMONOQ60781 I 70 72 1 with it. They went looking for back-up. I 1 Did you do any kind of statistical analysis 2 was aware of that process. They came back 2 to determine whether or not the results you 3 with nothing. Gannett Fleming had no files 3 found in these samples were statistically 4 on this except this report, which is 4 significant we have heard that term used in 5 incomplete. (Indicating). 5 this Court by Dr. James and others. 6 Q. Which you didn't even read. 6 A. Well, I would have and I have a 7 A. No. 7 statistical background and I could have; 8 Q. Didn't even read their report? 8 however, in all of the cases you see under 9 A. No. What would I do if I did? 9 the pre-fire PCB concentration results 10 All I would do is find out that there might 10 there's only one sample, and you can't do 11 be a difference and I wouldn't be able to 11 much statistical analysis when you have only 12 explain it. 12 got one data point per floor, for example. I 13 Q. Mr. Woodyard, I can't testify 13 couldn't statistically compare Mr. Kominsky's 14 about what you should have done; I'm just 14 results except on the surface here. 15 trying to ask you what you did do. 15 Q. So you couldn't do a statistical 16 A. I understand and I told you. 16 analysis. I 4 17 Q. So I'm trying to get to the 17 A. The only one that could have 18 bottom of it. 18 been done that was not done was comparing the J 19 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, Your 19 totals for the building, if you will. 20 Honor. I move to strike counsel's speech. 20 Q. I didn't mean to interrupt you. 21 THE COURT: Sustained. 21 Were you done? 22 MR. MC CLAIN: It was a 22 A. And as a statistician, the 23 speech. I apologize. Sometimes you get 23 results are so different between his and the 24 carried away. 24 ones that are on the left side, that I was 7 1 73 1 MR. MC CLAIN: The question 1 sure without doing the analysis that they 2 is -- 2 would have been significantly different. 3 THE COURT: Accepted and 3 Q. You didn't do it. 4 stricken. 4 A. No, I didn't. 5 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 5 Q. And without doing a test, a 6 Q. The point is, Mr. Woodyard, is 6 statistical significance test -- the reason 7 you knew the report that I just handed to you 7 you do a statistical significance test is to 8 existed and you did not review it; am I 8 determine whether or not your results can be 9 right? 9 explained by chance or whether there is 10 A. That's correct. 10 something else going on there other than that 11 Q. You knew or suspected that it 11 can be explained by chance; am I right? 12 reported results on the same samples that you 12 A. Yes, but as I said before, just 13 had analyzed; am I right? 13 so you are clear on this whole statistical 14 A. Yes, I believe -- I don't really 14 analysis issue, in most of Mr. Kominsky's 15 know specifically, but I knew they were some 15 cases, and it may have been all of them, we 16 of the same samples. 16 typically were talking about two samples. In 17 Q. Now, let's look at your results, 17 my case, on the same floors, we are looking 18 Mr. Woodyard. 18 at this bottom section of the table, we 19 Now, first of all, I didn't see 19 typically had one sample. You can't do a 20 in your report any statistical analysis of 20 statistical comparison with two samples i 21 these samples, did I? 21 versus one sample. It is a waste of time. 22 A Which samples are you referring 22 It doesn't work statistically. You need more ? 23 to? 23 samples. (Indicating) 24 Q. All of these. Any of these. 24 Q. Right. That's exactly the I ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60782 74 1 point. 2 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, Your 3 Honor to, counsel's comment about the 4 evidence. That's exactly the point. I 5 move to strike. 6 MR. MCCLAIN: It was a 7 transition, Your Honor. 8 THE COURT: Sustained. That's 9 exactly the point, is that it is not 10 needed. 11 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 12 Q. I want to follow-up on what you 13 said, then, Mr. Woodyard. 14 Without more samples you cant 15 do a statistical analysis; am I right? 16 A. That's correct. In this case 17 you are right. 18 Q. And just so that we are clear, 19 you don't know where on the 11th floor any of 20 these samples were taken. As an example, the 21 first sample came from the 11th floor. You 22 don't know where it was, whether it is the 23 north, east, south, west of the floor; am I 24 right? 76 1 building; am I right? 2 A. That's true. We don't know. 3 Q. And in this building, as I 4 recall -- how many square feet are on a 5 floor? 6 A. Typically it was what; about 7 60,000? 50 to 60 thousand. 8 Q. 60,000 square feet of floor. I 9 won't hold you to it. I can't remember off 10 the top of my head either. 11 But that's a lot of fireproofing 12 on a floor, isn't it? There was a lot of 13 fireproofing on every floor. 14 A. Yes, 50,000 square feet or 15 60,000 square feet. 16 Q. And one sample of that 17 fireproofing, what would you say, in a 18 typical sample, would you take two or three 19 inches of that fireproofing? Something like 20 that? 21 A. Fair enough. 22 Q. Okay. Now, even with that, 23 let's look at the samples. On the sixth 24 floor the pre-fire concentration of PCBs is 1 i % 75 1 A. No, I don't, just that it was 2 taken on the 11th floor. 3 Q. And you don't know where Mr. 4 Kominsky's sample was taken in comparison to 5 it, do you? 6 A. No, if I don't know where the 7 first sample is taken I don't know what to 8 compare it with. 9 Q. So just to make the point clear, 10 this sample could have been taken in the 11 northwest and this sample could have been 12 taken in the southeast? (Indicating). 13 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection. 14 Calls for speculation. The witness said 15 he didn't know where they were taken from. 16 MR. MC CLAIN: I'm just trying 17 to gave the range of where they might have 18 been taken from, Your Honor. 19 MR. GOUTMAN: He is inviting 20 speculation, Your Honor. I object. 21 THE COURT: Sustained. 22 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 23 Q. They could have been taken at 24 the same point or opposite points of the - 77 1 higher than the post-fire concentration of 2 PCBs; isn't that true? Looking at your 3 chart. 4 A. Yes, that was true for the 5 fire -- well, the fire floor, which is six, 6 and the floor immediately above it is five. 7 Q. Five. In fact, on five it was 8 15, which is higher than a number of 9 post-fire floors, like the ground floor and 10 the fourth floor, and almost the same as the 11 tenth floor; right? 12 A. Yes. 13 Your Honor, may I step over here 14 to the side so I can see? I'm kinking my 15 head. 16 THE COURT: Certainly. 17 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 18 Q. You could look at page five, Mr. 19 Woodyard 20 A. Since you are pointing at this 21 one let's work with this one. (IN) 22 Yes, the 15 result is higher 23 than some of the results Mr. Kominsky came up 24 with. That's true. ] ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60783 78 80 1 Q. And if it existed before the 1 A, Yes, that's true. 2 fire somehow after the fire it disappeared; 2 Q.Now, you talked about the 3 is that right? On the fifth floor. It was 3 average, and what we are looking at here is 4 zero in Mr. Kominsky's samples on that same 4 an average of all of these samples at the top 5 floor; right? 5 and all of the samples at the bottom to get 6 A. Is that a question? Yes, that's 6 this comparison of three and 17.7; am I 7 correct. That's why we use averages when we 7 right? 8 do analysis with these kinds of data and 8 A. Yes, that's correct. 9 that's why there is an average line down at 9 Q. And it is true, isn't it, 10 the bottom because it normalizes all of the 10 Mr. Woodyard, that as we pointed out, that 11 results so that you can actually compare the 11 even though there's more data available for 12 before and after difference rather than doing 12 the bottom samples, these results could not 13 what you are trying to do here and go point 13 be statistically verified based on the data 14 by point and see if there are a few that 14 that you had available; am I right? No 15 serve your purposes. 15 statistical test was done. 16 MR. MCCLAIN: Well, I ask that 16 A. No statistical test was done, J 17 that comment be stricken, Your Honor. 17 that's correct. Simply the computation of an 18 THE COURT: Sustained. 18 average, which is what we would normally do 1 19 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 19 to this kind of comparison. m 20 Q. The results on the ninth floor 20 Q. Have you done this kind of a 21 are higher than the results on the sixth 21 comparison before and after a fire? f 22 floor after the fire. The results on the 22 A. No, but I mean just in terms of 23 ninth floor before are higher than the 23 averaging numbers in a statistical fashion. 24 results after the fire on the sixth, fifth, 24 Q. You mean you have never done # 79 81 1 the fourth, aren't they? That's true? 1 this analysis, this specific analysis, before 2 A. Yes, but it doesn't mean 2 in a case, have you? 3 anything to me. What is important to me is 3 A. Not that I can recall. 4 the average, what is important to me is that 4 Q. So this is the first time you 5 on almost every one of those data points for 5 ever did this; right? 6 the same floor the level before the fire was 6 A. No, comparing numbers line by 7 lower than the level after the fire, on 7 line, floor by floor, is not complicated and 8 average a factor of five. 8 statistics associated with this are not a 9 Q. That certainly wasn't true on 9 complicated statistical analysis. 10 the fifth floor, was it? The data point on 10 Q. It may not be complicated, but 11 the fifth floor shows that it was 15 to zero 11 this is the first you have ever compared 12 before the fire as opposed to after the fire; 12 results, PCB results, before a fire and after 13 am I right? 13 in this fashion; am I right? 14 A. Yes, that's on the fifth floor. 14 A. Yes, I believe so. 15 That's correct. 15 Q. Let's look at another issue that 16 Q. And you found or Mr. Kominsky 16 you discussed with the jury, and that was the 17 found a higher level even on the ground floor 17 samples that were taken from the Milton 18 and basement, isn't that true, after the 18 Hershey School. Do you remember that 19 fire? 19 discussion you had with the jury? > 20 A. I missed the question. 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. The results of your analysis 21 MR. GOUTMAN: Could the 22 show that there was even an increase in the 22 witness resume the witness stand, please? 23 PCBs on the ground floor and basement in this 23 MR. MC CLAIN: Sure, Your 24 building; am I right? 24 Honor. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60784 82 1 THE COURT: Are you going to 2 be using this chart again? 3 MR. MCCLAIN: No, Your Honor, 4 and I will take that. 1068. 5 Is Penn Exhibit 1068, Your 6 Honor, in evidence. I will hand it up to 7 The Court. 8 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 9 Q. Now, these samples were analyzed 10 by a different laboratory; am I right? By 11 Skelly and Loy. 12 A. Yes, I believe they were done by 13 Skelly and Loy. 14 Q. And in regard to the Milton 15 Hershey School samples, what Skelly and Loy 16 reported was that the samples of fireproofing 17 taken from the Milton Hershey School had both 18 1254 and 1260 PCBs; am I right? 19 A. I'm sorry. Was your question 20 specific to fireproofing? 21 Q. Yes. 22 A. 1260 is cited as being in the 23 fireproofing and 1254 in wipe samples. 24 Q. And it says 1254 is in wipe 84 1 reading? 2 MR.MCCLAIN: Ms.Herschel 3 says that their records show that we 4 didn't put this in evidence. If we did 5 not, I move it at this time. No objection 6 they said. 7 THE COURT: Admitted. What 8 page are you reading from? 9 MR. MCCLAIN: Mr. Henderson 10 thought it was the third page and it says 11 "results". 12 THE COURT: Results. 13 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 14 Q. It says, "Additionally, PCB 1254 15 that was detected in the field blank 16 indicating wipe samples were likely 17 contaminated with PCB 1254 during laboratory 18 extraction and analysis. Since similar and 19 very low quantities of PCB 1254 only were 20 detected in both samples in the blank and no 21 PCB 1260 was detected in the samples, it is 22 likely that the only source of PCB in wipe 23 samples was the laboratory. In other words. 24 no PCBs were collected from the I beams or j 1 83 1 samples and it also was detected in the 2 field, isn't that true, from these samples? 3 A. Yes, according to the narrative 4 that's true. 5 Q. It says, additionally, PCB, this 6 is, Your Honor, on, I don't know, 7 Mr. Henderson, what page is that? Is it 8 numbered? 9 MR. HENDERSON: Page four. 10 MR. MC CLAIN: Page four, but 11 I don't believe it is numbered, Your 12 Honor. It is under "Results". 13 MS. HERSCHEL: Mr. McClain, 14 I'm sorry to interrupt you, but for the 15 record we have no, you said it was entered 16 into evidence, the document, and just for 17 the record, we have no record of that. 18 MR. MC CLAIN: Do you object 19 to it? 20 MS. HERSCHEL: No. 21 MR. MCCLAIN: I will offer it 22 into evidence at this time. I thought it 23 was in. 24 THE COURT: What page are we 85 1 ceilings from the wipe samples." Right? 2 A. That's what it says, that's 3 correct. 4 Q. And typically when there are 5 problems with the field blanks for a 6 scientist, such as yourself, that raises red 7 flags; am I right? 8 A. Yes, as it did here for the wipe 9 samples. That's correct. 10 Q. By the way, have you ever been 11 in the Milton Hershey School? 12 A. No, I have not. 13 Q. Do you know what kind of 14 ductwork they have in the Milton Hershey 15 School? 16 A. No, I do not. 17 Q. Okay. Let's go from schools to 18 air samples. 19 Your Honor, this is Exhibit 20 Penn 521 A. I don't know whether it is in 21 evidence or not, Your Honor, but if it's 22 not I move it into evidence. 23 THE COURT: Admitted. 24 BY MR. MC CLAIN: ;! ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60785 8 6 88 !1ij 1 Q. Now, Mr. Woodyard, you talked to 2 the jury about the air sampling results in 1 because air is moving through the 2 Transportation & Safety Building all the 3 this case, did you not? 3 time; am I right? 4 A. Yes, I did. 4 A. The reason for what? I'm sorry. 5 Q. And just so that we are clear 5 Q. To analogize it to a snap shot; 6 about air sampling, what happens is is that 6 am I right? 7 an air sampling pump is set up and air is 7 A. Because it is a dynamic 8 sucked through it on to a filter or a 8 situation. The one sample isn't necessarily 9 charcoal device or whatever the device is to 9 going to tell you everything that you want to 10 collect the contaminant that you are looking 10 know. ,1 11 for in the air and then it is analyzed in a 11 Q. So if you take a picture of the 12 laboratory; am I right? 12 jury today, it may change tomorrow in terms ' 1 13 A. Yes, that's correct. 13 of what they are wearing, even where they are 14 Q. And in regard to air sampling, 14 seated; am I right? 15 you mentioned something when you were talking 15 A. Yes, that's a snap shot. 16 to Mr. Goutman. You said it's not like a 16 THE COURT: Not where they are 17 snap shot; it is like a movie in this case. 17 seated. 18 Do you remember that statement that you made? 18 MR. MCCLAIN: Well, Your 19 A. Yes, Ido. 19 Honor, I don't know. It just depends on 20 Q. And the reason you said that was 20 the day. 21 because air samples have been criticized as 21 THE COURT: Possibly. 22 being snap shots in time; is that right? 22 MR. MCCLAIN: Hopefully no 23 A. The reason I said it is because 23 more changes. 24 an air sample takes a few hours to collect, 24 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 87 89 1 and in this case they were collecting a 1 Q. So the issue always in air 2 number of samples at the same time, so there 2 sampling, Mr. Woodyard, is how representative 3 is always some air sampling going on. 3 the sampling is; am I right? 4 Q. But my question was different 4 A. I'm sorry. What do you mean by 5 than your answer. My question was it is 5 representative? 6 true, isn't it, that air samples have been 6 Q. Meaning that you don't, you want 7 criticized by people in the industrial 7 to be sure that you have a sufficient sample 8 hygiene field as being snap shots in time; am 8 size to be sure you are characterizing the i 9 I right? 9 air in the building correctly as opposed to 10 A. I don't know that. 10 just taking a snap shot; am I right? 11 Q. You have never heard that 11 A. Yes, that's correct. )5 12 before? 12 Q. Now, one thing you told us about 13 A. No. 13 was limits of detection; right? 14 Q. Why did you mention that it was 14 A. Yes, we also talked about that. 15 not a snap shot in time; it was a movie in 15 Q. Now, let me see if we use the 16 this case if you have never heard that? 16 snap shot idea, let me see if I can use 17 A. I was thinking more in terms of 17 another home spun example of the limits of 18 the, in my case, the wipe sampling results, 18 detection and see if you can agree with this, 19 which are fixed time, one shot, take a sample 19 with a little bit of leeway, Your Honor, and 20 today. Air samples, I guess, could be argued 20 Mr. Goutman. I have got six children. If I 21 as snap shots if you only took, for example, 21 send them to their room to clean things up 22 one sample in the Transportation & Safety 22 and go up and look in the room and it looks 23 Building. 23 clean and never look under their beds I might i 24 Q. And the reason for that is 24 be misled. Has that ever happened to you, ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60786 90 1 Mr. Woodyard, with your daughters? 2 A. Yes, I suspect it has. 3 Q. Is that an example of a limit of 4 detection? That's the type of idea? It 5 depends on where you look or how closely you 6 look determines on what results you get? 7 A. Well, it is not a great example. 8 A better example might be eye sight. For 9 those of you who wear contacts or eye 10 glasses, as you put on different strengths of 11 glasses you can see clearer and clearer at a 12 distance. A person out of the courtroom, for 13 example, and at some point you can identify 14 somebody in the courtroom by name and that's 15 essentially your limit of detection with eye 16 glasses. 17 Q. Good example. It brings it 18 home. 19 You told the jury that in regard 20 to these samples that the limit of detection 21 for most of them was .5 or below. Do you 22 remember that testimony? 23 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection. If 24 he has a specific page cite -- 92 1 be seated. 2 Good afternoon, Your Honor. 3 THE COURT: Good afternoon. 4 (Jury responds good afternoon) 5 Mr. Woodyard. 6 Mr. McClain. 7 MR. MCCLAIN: Thank you, Your 8 Honor. I will improve my limit of 9 detection. I'm putting my glasses on. 10 Good afternoon, ladies and 11 gentlemen. 12 (Jury responds good 13 afternoon). 14 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 15 Q. When we broke we were talking 16 about the limit of detection and Mr. Goutman 17 asked me to find the reference to your 18 testimony. I have an except of it. It is 19 from January 28, 2000. Mr. Woodyard, at page 20 96 on that day you were talking about the air 21 samples, these samples that are taken through 22 pumps of the air. At that time you said, 23 that is if Mr. Begley took it down correctly, 24 "How sensitive are these tests? 91 1 MR. MC CLAIN: I do. I have 2 the pages actually if you want me to find 3 that testimony. 4 MS. HERSCHEL: It is a cite. 5 MR. MC CLAIN: I have the 6 excerpts. 7 Your Honor, while I'm looking 8 for this, if the jury wants to take a 9 stretch maybe to get us through lunch. I 10 can find those here in a minute and 11 maybe -- 12 THE COURT: We are getting 13 close to lunch. This might be an 14 appropriate time to take the luncheon 15 recess. 16 MR. MC CLAIN: All right. 17 MR. EDGE: This Court will 18 take a luncheon recess until 1:30 p.m. 19 Everyone remained seated until the jury 20 leaves the room. 21 (Court recessed for lunch) 22 MR. EDGE: In the name of the 23 Commonwealth of Pennsylvania this 24 Commonwealth Court is reconvened. Please 93 1 "Extremely. The typical 2 detection limit was less than half a 3 microgram per cubic meter." 4 Do you see that? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Then you said, "In some cases it 7 was as low as one tenth a microgram per 100, 8 so it could have been as much as a ten times 9 below what anyone would consider a guideline 10 or action mark". Right? 11 A. Yes, that's what it says. 12 Q. And the samples you were talking 13 about were those Skelly and Loy samples that 14 I handed you; am I right? 15 A. Yes, that was the basis for my 16 analysis. 17 Q. You told us that there were 18 nearly 4000 in the Skelly and Loy set. There 19 are, by my count, 3,634. Do you think that's 20 about right? Roughly. 21 A. Roughly. I think my figures or 22 perhaps the information in my expert report 23 was about 3600 or 37. 24 Q. When I counted them I got 3634. \ # ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60787 94 1 Will you accept that? 2 A. Yes, sir. 3 Q. And this sample set, as I look 4 through them, if you look at the first page, 5 maybe we can put this up to the jury, the 6 detection limit is listed under PQL, is it? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. Okay. As I look down this list 9 I see detection limits of, just so we are 10 clear about your testimony, you said that the 11 detection limit was less than half a 12 microgram per cubic meter; am I right? 13 A. I said the typical detection 14 limit was less than a half microgram per 15 cubic meter. 16 Q. But just so we are clear on what 17 that quantification would be, on this kind of 18 a scale, referring to the exhibit, we would 19 be talking about .5; am I right? 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. Just to put it in context. And 22 in looking through these samples there are 23 less than 2.5, less than 5.6, less than 6.4, 24 less than 6.2, 5.5,4.5, 3.9, 3.1, 6.1, 5.3, 96 1 that? 2 A. Thereabouts. According to mine, 3 it is 14 or 15. There are still a number of 4 them after that. It starts - 5 Q. To go down a little bit? 6 A. Pretty dramatically. 7 Q. And let me just ask you, it is 8 approximately 20 percent of the samples are 9 in these high detection range; isn't that 10 about right? Based on the numbers that we 11 are dealing with. Pages that is. We are 12 dealing with 100 pages. 13 A. That's true. It is about the -- 14 chronologically, by the way, is how these are 15 organized, so it is about the first ten or 20 16 percent of the air samples taken. 17 Q. We are in these high detection 18 settings; am I correct? 19 A. Yes, that's correct. 20 Q. And did you look at this issue? 21 As I counted it, there are 1890 of the 22 samples throughout the set -- 23 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, Your 24 Honor. We can't have testimony from 95 97 1 10.2, 3.4, 4.3, etc., down the list; am I 1 counsel as he counts it. 2 right? 2 THE COURT: Sustained. 3 A. Yes, sir. 3 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 4 Q. And just so the jury understands 4 Q. How many samples of these came 5 what that means, Mr. Woodyard, that means 5 from the sixth floor, Mr. Woodyard, out of 6 that if you are taking an air sample that has 6 these 3600 samples? 7 a detection limit, let's say, of 8.3 as we 7 A. I don't recall. I believe there 8 see up there on the screen, if you had 8.2 8 was a number in my expert report. 9 micrograms of PCBs in the air that test 9 Q. Can you look for it? 10 wouldn't detect it; am I correct? 10 A. No, I'm mistaken. I didn't * 11 A. More or less, yes. 11 break it out that way, so I don't know. j i 12 Q. Roughly. So that in regard to 12 Q. If you will look at it, look at 13 any samples that we have in this data set 13 it and get a sense of it, aren't more than 14 where the detection limit is 6.2, 5.9, 4.3, 14 half of them in the sixth floor? Look 15 3.4, any of those detection limits we don't 15 through the list. 16 know whether or not there was a lower amount 16 A. For the entire database? 17 of PCBs than that in the air; am I right? 17 Q. More than half of them are from 18 A. That's correct. 18 the sixth floor, aren't they? 19 Q. If you look through this 19 A. I looked at the first 20 pages 20 document, for the first 18 pages out of 100, 20 that you were citing and that's definitely 21 you find detection limits in these ranges 21 the case. In excess of half of them are 22 6.0, 5.5, 6.4, 5.9, 5.6, 6.3, 5.8, 5.3, 5.4, 22 sixth floor samples. 23 6.3, 4.2, 4.6, etc., all the way back to the 23 It looks like it is a third to a 24 18th page of these tests; am I right about 24 half. Something in that neighborhood. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60788 98 1 Q. And the half, just so we are 2 clear, is about 1800 of those samples, 3 roughly, come from the sixth floor; right? 4 A. Roughly, yes. That's fine. 5 Q. And on the sixth floor there was 6 no ventilation that was occurring with the 7 rest of the building; right? It was sealed 8 off. 9 A. Yes, it was being ventilated to 10 the outside. 11 Q. Following the fire. 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. Now, there's another thing that 14 I wanted to ask you about. In regard to 15 these samples that were at the lower 16 detection limit, how many of them were taken 17 on days when the building was being purged? 18 Can you tell us? 19 A. What do you mean by purged? I'm 20 sorry. 21 Q. Do you know, in this building, 22 that they were purging it from time to time? 23 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, Your 24 Honor. Counsel is testifying. 100 1 purging in your business? 2 A. I'm sorry. You are talking 3 about contaminants? No, it is simply to 4 bring in fresh air and mix it with the air 5 that has already been heated to control the 6 temperature, control air quality. 7 Q. Are you aware of whether or not 8 there was an attempt made to bring in more 9 outside air in this building to be sure that 10 the PCB levels did not increase? 11 A. Well, it is actually quite the 12 opposite, if I recall correctly. It started 13 with 100 percent outside air, which they 14 would have to heat in order to keep the 15 building warm in the winter and so close to 16 winter they began to mix recycled air with 17 outside air to save, presumably, on energy 18 costs, and they monitored the air levels 19 during that time to make sure they did not 20 increase, and they did not. 21 Q. How many of these samples were 22 taken when the building was in a 100 percent 23 mode of operation, outside air as opposed to 24 inside? Do you know? I t I y 99 1 MR. MC CLAIN: He asked me 2 what I meant by purge, Your Honor, and I 3 was just explaining it to the witness. 4 MR. GOUTMAN: And he's about 5 to give testimony, Your Honor. That's 6 inappropriate. If he has documents and so 7 forth, fine, but counsel can't give 8 testimony as to what he thinks he knows. 9 THE COURT: Overruled. That 10 was not offering testimony. 11 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 12 Q. Mr. Woodyard, do you know that 13 this building was being operated with greater 14 than 50 percent supplied air from outside 15 following the fire? 16 A. Yes, immediately after the fire, 17 I believe, it was 100 percent and then at 18 some point a couple months after it was 19 changed to about 50. 20 Q. And outside air is brought in in 21 a situation like this to be sure that 22 contaminants are not being spread around; we 23 are getting more outside air than inside air; 24 am I right? Isn't that the purpose of - 10 1 1 A. No, I don't know. 2 Q. Or how many of them were taken 3 with a 50 percent purge mode? Do you know? 4 A. No, not offhand. 5 Q. Let's talk about Mr. Ewing's 6 test for a minute. You are familiar with 7 that; is that right? 8 A. Yes, sir. 9 Q. And it is true, isn't it, or let 10 me ask you did you perform any tests in this 11 case to determine whether the ductboard could 12 release PCBs, a small chamber test or any 13 type of test like that? 14 A. Well, in a sense I considered 15 the building a test in my analysis. We went 16 through and looked at the air results we were 17 just looking at here, looked at the air 18 mixing results when they changed the 19 ventilation system, so in a sense it was a 20 giant chamber and we were looking to see if 21 there was an increase of PCB from the 22 results, and there was not, so in my view 23 that is as good an experiment, certainly 24 better experiment than some use. i * ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES m TOWOLDMONOQ60789 4 102 104 J 1 Q. Did you run a small chamber 1 didn't need to do a test. } 2 test, Mr. Woodyard? 2 Q. I understand that answer, but 3 A. No, I did not. 3 the question is you never said to them, I 4 Q. You are capable of doing that. 4 want to do a test and they never asked you to i 5 are you not? 5 do one; am I right? 6 A. Yes, I think so. 6 A. That's correct, because I 7 Q. You are a scientist who has 7 assured them that the information that I had 8 access to laboratories; am I right? 8 was satisfactory to me. 9 A. Yes. 9 Q. And that included those 14 fi 10 Q. You know these people that have 10 samples that you didn't know where they came ij 11 laboratories that have small chambers in them 11 from; am I right? 12 , don't you? 12 A. We are talking about off gassing i 13 A. I'm familiar with it, yes. 13 and ductboard and chamber tests and things J 14 Q. And a real easy way -- let me 14 like that? 15 back off on that. Let me start again. 15 Q. You are basing all of your 16 One way to have proven that 16 opinions on all of the information in your 17 Mr. Ewing was wrong was to design your own 17 report, aren't you, including the samples 18 test and to have done it in a small chamber; 18 that you told us about that you reported on ; 19 am I correct? 19 in terms of before and after, samples of the 20 A. That would have been difficult. 20 fireproofing? 21 The tests that he did were using equipment 21 A. Absolutely. 22 that was not designed to do that type of test 22 Q. So you were absolutely 23 and so he had some difficulty, obviously, 23 comfortable with your data from samples 450 24 making that happen. There is no standard way 24 through 463; am I right? 103 105 1 to run a test like that. I have done tests 1 A. Yes, they are pre-fire 2 similar to that with PCBs and other materials 2 fireproofing samples from the Transportation 3 in laboratories where it's not so much an off 3 & Safety Building. 4 gassing issue, but a measurement of a vapor 4 Q. Samples that you didn't know for 5 pressure, for example, so that's where a test 5 sure where they came from; am I right? 6 can be done because there are no standard 6 A. Yes, I did. They came from the 7 ways to do it. 7 Transportation & Safety Building before the 8 Q. And did you do that here? 8 fire. 9 A. No, I did not. 9 Q. What floor did they come from? Aw i 10 Q. Did you ask Mr. Goutman for an 11 opportunity to do that? 10 A. It didn't matter to me. I 11 didn't look through Mr. Cocciardi's data to \ 12 A. No. 12 see what samples were from what floor from 13 Q. Did he ask you? 13 the Milton Hershey School or the South Office : | 14 A. No. 14 Building. 15 Q. Did you ever say to Ms. 15 Q. Or the number of samples that 16 Herschel, I'm going to offer some opinions 16 had come from the sixth floor as opposed to n 17 about your ductboard. I would really like to 17 elsewhere; am I right? ;j 18 do a test to be sure about that? You didn't 18 A. That's correct. It didn't make 19 ever have a conversation with her about that 19 a difference to my analysis. i 20 subject, either? 20 Q. Or whether there was purging 21 A. No. As I said before, I was 21 going on. All of those things. You were 22 convinced, based on the data, based on the 22 comfortable with the data; right? 23 information about this building and what had 23 A. Yes, as I told you I knew all 1 24 been done for two-and-a-half years, that I 24 about the purging. This doesn't change my ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060790 106 1 opinion. 2 Q. And that included the tests from 3 Gannett Fleming on those same samples which 4 you didn't review; am I right? 5 A. Right. I knew that they had 6 done tests and I just dismissed them because 7 there was no supporting information. 8 Q. You just told us, in regard to 9 Mr. Cocciardi, you didn't have any supporting 10 information on his. You didn't know where 11 his tests were taken either; right? 12 MS. HERSCHEL: Objection to 13 the form of the question. 14 MR. MC CLAIN: Didn't you say 15 that? 16 THE COURT: Overruled. 17 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 18 Q. Didn't you say that? 19 A. I said I didn't know what floor 20 he took the samples from, which for the 21 purpose of my analysis didn't matter. 22 Q. All right. Let's leave 23 Mr. Ewing's tests aside then and talk about 24 your opinions regarding Mr. Kominsky's 108 1 According to the testimony, I think it was on 2 the order of 16 miles. 3 Q. 16 miles. And so you would be, 4 this two inches you told us about of tape 5 times 16 miles; is that right? 6 A. Yes, every inch of that 7 rectangular ductboard would have been sealed 8 with that tape. 9 Q. And it would have been heated to 10 between 250 degrees and 300 degrees 11 Fahrenheit; am I right? 12 A. I think Mr. Kominsky's testimony 13 was that the adhesive would get up to about 14 250. There is no data to support that, but 15 for the moment let's assume that is true. 16 Q. And you don't believe that 17 heating ductboard at 250 degrees would drive 18 off PCBs; is that correct? 19 A. That's correct. The PCBs would 20 be locked into the glue matrix. 21 Q. Now, did you ever say to Ms. 22 Herschel or anyone else, you know, there's a 23 real easy way to test this out. Let's put 24 this ductwork in a chamber and heat it to 250 4 t i i 3 1 107 1 testimony about the heat sealing tape. 2 Do you remember that testimony 3 that you gave the jury? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Now, in regard to this heat 6 sealing tape it sealed the ductboard at a 7 joint along one side; am I right? It would 8 be sealed here at this area as the duct was 9 folded. Is that how it worked? 10 (Indicating). 11 A. Yes, there would be a flap that 12 would go over the adjoining flap and then 13 they would be sealed with a piece of tape 14 over the top. 15 Q. Let me use a red pen so that we 16 can see. It would be sealed at this edge 17 here or outside? (Indicating). 18 A. Outside. 19 Q. At this edge. Throughout this 20 building; right? 21 A. Yes, sir. 22 Q. And how many miles of this 23 ductwork were in the building? 24 A. I haven't measured it. 109 1 degrees and see whether PCBs are driven off? 2 Did you ever say there to her? 3 A. No. No, I did not. 4 Q. You could have done that. 5 A. I didn't see a point to it. 6 Q. Did you do it? 7 A No, sir. 8 Q. Could you have done it? 9 A. Could I have done a ductwork 10 heating test? 11 Q. Yes. 12 A. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. 13 Q. Now, there are a few more things 14 I want to take you through from the article 15 that you wrote called "State-of-the-art 16 Technology for PCB Decontamination of 17 Concrete". Do you have a copy of that with 18 you? 19 A. No, I do not. 20 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, 21 this is Penn Exhibit 4006. 22 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 23 Q. Mr. Woodyard, is this paper, the 24 paper that you wrote, am I right, 3 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 0 i TOWOLDMONOQ60791 ,1 110 112 1 "State-of-the-art Technology for PCB 1 efficient job, so the term "rapidly becoming 2 Decontamination of Concrete"? 2 a major concern", at the time it was a 3 A. Yes, that's correct. 3 concern to environmental managers, and I 4 Q. I have taken some statements and 4 emphasized that, because they weren't always 5 there's page references that you can look at 5 sure of how to go about doing the clean-up, 6 them. We have already shown these to 6 what methods to use, what techniques, what i 7 counsel, but you can follow along there, if 7 equipment, and that's what the purpose of % ( 8 you want, or you can look on the board, 8 this paper, in fact, was about, was trying to 9 whichever is more convenient. 9 give them at least some information on the -- 1 10 In this paper you wrote, "In 11 situations where health risk concerns are of 10 Q. Let's look at some of that 11 advice you gave at the time. 12 greatest importance, surface and air 12 MR. GOUTMAN: Page, please. 13 contamination standards will often 13 MR. MCCLAIN: 119. 14 predominant. This is particularly true in 14 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 15 commercial office buildings where PCB 15 Q. You state, "Short and long term 16 contamination is present in paint or 16 liability from human exposure to PCB 17 concrete, on walls, furniture and equipment. 17 contamination of concrete is a manifestation 18 These are considered high contact areas for 18 of a perceived health risk. The mere 19 employees and, along with air, represent the 19 presence of PCB in the work environment or a 20 most Direct route of human exposure." 20 building structural member is considered a 21 Is that a true statement, 21 long term financial risk to the ultimate 22 Mr. Woodyard? 22 owner. Initial investigations reveal the 23 A. Yes, it is. We have been 23 presence of PCB will often precipitate both 24 talking about risk assessment for some time 24 ECRA clean-up and employee concerns over in 1 now and surface and air contamination is 2 fundamental to computing people's exposure 3 and how risk assessments actually develop 4 standards. 5 MR. MCCLAIN: Your Honor, I'm 6 sorry. That last quote, Your Honor, was 7 at page 120 from the paper. Now I'm going 8 to go to page 117. 9 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 10 Q. In this paper you wrote 11 "Decontamination of building structures and 12 equipment containing polychlorinated 13 biphenyls is rapidly becoming a major concern 14 to environmental managers in industry and 15 government." 16 Is that still a true statement, 17 Mr. Woodyard? 18 A. No, in the sense that in the mid 19 1980's, when this paper was being written, 20 there wasn't as much experience in doing the 21 kinds of things we were talking about here in 22 the courtroom. Here, 15 years later, of 23 course, things have changed and people have 24 learned a lot and do a much better, more 113 1 exposure. Property owners will then effect 2 rapid and thorough decontamination, rather 3 than risk the liability associated with 4 employee exposure." 5 Right? Is that what you wrote? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. And that's what you believe 8 today? 9 A. Certainly the part about rapid 10 and thorough decontamination, which is 11 typical. It wasn't typical at the 12 Transportation & Safety Building. But also a 13 big concern has always been once you find 14 PCBs in an old manufacturing plant, what do 15 you do about it? This ECRA abbreviation here 16 is a new one in The Court here. It is a New 17 Jersey Law back in 1983 or so that required 18 companies selling industrial property to do 19 sampling for a number of different things, 20 and one of them was PCB, and when some of 21 those old factories from back in the forties 22 and fifties were sampled they would find low 23 levels of PCB and they would do something 24 about it, and that's, in fact, that was ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60792 114 1 probably the biggest audience for this 2 particular article. 3 Q. In the concrete? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. Now, this is from page 119, Your 6 Honor. 7 "Indoor decontamination is more 8 commonly driven by concern for short or long 9 term human health than for environmental 10 protection. This concern for human health is 11 often prompted by the discovery of former PCB 12 spills and the presence of incidental 13 contamination in older facilities." 14 What is incidental 15 contamination? Can you tell us? 16 A. Incidental contamination in this 17 context typically would refer to tracking or 18 other means by which PCBs might show up on 19 the floor in a particular room. It's not a 20 necessarily identified spill where you had a 21 release, you had a puddle of liquid, you 22 clean it up, but some, maybe some remnants of 23 that that have been tracked around by 24 forklifts or shoes or what have you. 116 1 Court. 2 MR. GOUTMAN: Frankly, we went 3 over about 30 such things and I missed one 4 dot, dot, dot. Your Honor, and I apologize 5 to The Court and jury. 6 MR. MC CLAIN: It is at page 7 119. I will letter you slide on that one. 8 119. 9 MR. MC CLAIN: Mr. Goutman, 10 you read it. Go ahead. 11 MR. GOUTMAN: "Human health 12 exposure is usually associated with 13 surface or airborne contamination", and 14 this is what is missing, "neither of which 15 is typically associated with concrete 16 contamination." 17 MR. MCCLAIN: Okay. And the 18 rest of it is exactly as we have it up 19 there; right? 20 MR. GOUTMAN: Yes. 21 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 22 Q. Okay. Page 122,122 in the 23 article, Your Honor. The paragraph beginning 24 "The type". 115 1 Q. It says, "Human health exposure 2 is usually associated with surface or 3 airborne contamination. Nonetheless, routine 4 tracking or spillage on PCBs of concrete will 5 result in the need for concrete removal in 6 older plants where employees still could be 7 exposed." 8 That's what you were 9 recommending at the time? 10 A. Yes, because as I pointed out 11 before, when I was referring to this ECRA 12 standard, as before human health exposure -- 13 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, I 14 have an objection. Part of this quote was 15 left out. I think it should be read. 16 MR. MCCLAIN: That's fine. 17 We went over all of these 18 before, Your Honor, and counsel didn't 19 raise that objection and I don't object. 20 We have a dot, dot, dot where we left out 21 a fragment of a sentence. If the witness 22 would like to read it, that's fine, but 23 counsel didn't raise this objection when 24 we went over each one of these with The 117 1 THE COURT: I see it. 2 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 3 Q. "The type of PCB contamination 4 of concrete that is most frequently 5 encountered he and most difficult to treat is 6 just below the surface resulting either from 7 short-term spill contact or grinding of dry 8 deposits through tracking. PCB has been 9 shown, however, to penetrate concrete to much 10 greater depths than common sense would 11 indicate, through capillary action or other 12 physical mechanisms. Decontamination of 13 floors in particular sometimes shows PCB 14 penetration of .5 to two inches for even 15 small spills of limited contact time." 16 Is that what you found, 17 Mr. Woodyard, in your research? 18 A. Again, the focus of this article 19 is largely on industrial facilities. This 20 is, has been, and still is true in those 21 situations. This has really nothing to do 22 with the Transportation & Safety Building. 23 Q. Well, I understand that's your 24 position; I just have a question about what > i ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60793 I 118 120 1 you wrote. 1 A. Meaning that it has microscopic 2 MR. GOUTMAN: I object to 2 holes. It is like a microscopic sponge in 3 counsel's comment about what he 3 some respects where there's a void space. 4 understands or doesn't understand. I move 4 It's not as solid as it looks, basically. j 5 to strike it. 5 Q. "And thereby allowing 6 MR. MC CLAIN: I don't want to 6 penetration by either liquor or vapor 7 get into a fight, Your Honor, about 7 contaminants." 8 whether the witness was responsive or not. 8 You mean to tell me that 9 I just want to ask him questions about 9 concrete can absorb PCBs in a vapor form? 10 this article which The Court has 10 A. No, what this says is that 11 previously ruled on. 11 concrete can absorb vapors. It doesn't say 12 THE COURT: The objection is 12 anything about PCBs. ] 13 overruled. 14 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 13 Q. If PCBs are in a vapor can 14 concrete absorb them? 15 Q. This capillary action is 15 A. PCBs aren't typically in a 16 something that you have investigated in 16 vapor. I have not seen actual evidence of 17 regard to concrete; am I right? 17 where vapor PCBs have penetrated concrete. 18 A. Well, more generally in the 18 Q. Well, I'm asking can it. If 1 19 course of concrete clean-up work I have 19 PCBs are in a vapor can it penetrate 20 investigated the depth to which PCBs will go 20 concrete? 21 inconcrete. 21 A. I don't know under what 1 22 Q. Here at page 118 of that article 22 situations it would be a vapor that it could 23 you say, "Structural and ornamental concrete 23 penetrate the concrete. 24 has several attributes which combine to make 24 Q. Is this paper about PCB 119 1 this substance unique from a decontamination 2 standpoint. First, all concrete is porous to 3 some degree, thereby allowing penetration by 4 either liquid or vapor contaminants. Second, 5 concrete continuously ages and dries over its 6 life span, changing its porosity and its 7 ability to absorb contaminants. Third, and 8 perhaps more important, concrete is often an 9 integral structural component of the 10 building, so decontamination must be 11 performed; demolition and disposal is not 12 always an option." Right? That's what you 13 wrote? 14 A. Yes, that's what I wrote. 15 Again, this doesn't really apply to the 16 Transportation & Safety Building, but it is 17 certainly for a lot of buildings -- 18 Q. "Structural and ornamental 19 concrete has several attributes which combine 20 to make this substance unique from a 21 decontamination point. First, all concrete 22 is porous to some degree." 23 What does that mean? What does it 24 mean that concrete is porous? 12 1 1 contamination of concrete or not? 2 A. Yes, it is. 3 Q. And so when you put vapor 4 contamination in your paper about PCB and 5 concrete, it didn't have anything to do with 6 PCBs; am I right? 7 A. No, it had everything to do with 8 contaminants in general, which the people who 9 do this kind of work don't always work with 10 PCBs; they work on solvents and other 11 contaminants, which are commonly in vapor 12 form and you need to do more elaborate 13 concrete work to remove it. 14 Q. So when you put in this phase 15 about vapor contaminants and contamination of 16 concrete it didn't have anything to do with 17 PCBs. That's what you are telling the jury? 18 A. Yes, that's exactly what I'm 19 telling the jury. This doesn't say PCB 20 vapors. 21 Q. "Second, concrete continuously 22 ages and dries over its life span, changing 23 its porosity and its ability to absorb 24 contaminants." ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60794 122 1 Now, what does that mean? 2 A. Well, the porosity that I 3 mentioned before, that sponge type of look 4 that concrete would have if you looked at it 5 under a microscope, some of those void spaces 6 are full of water and over time, as the 7 concrete dries out, that water leaves the 8 concrete, so it increases the porosity in 9 some cases or it can just part the concrete. 10 It really depends on the concrete. 11 Q. All right. Now, finally -- 12 MR. GOUTMAN: Page, please. 13 MR. MC CLAIN: Page 128. 14 Page 128, Your Honor. 15 BY MR. MCCLAIN: 16 Q. It says, "In practice, because 17 many ongoing decontamination projects involve 18 industrial property transfer or long term 19 liability issues, leaving PCBs in place even 20 under a protective surface coating is not 21 always acceptable to the buyer." 22 Did I read that accurately? 23 A. That's true. In the context we 24 are talking about here is what I have been 124 1 experience leaving PCBs in place is not 2 always acceptable to the buyer; am I right? 3 That's what you wrote? 4 A. Yes, there may be situations 5 where buyers object to that for some reason, 6 and typically it was in those days, and this 7 is like 15 years ago, there were no clean-up 8 standards per se and buyers were confused 9 about what the clean-up level should be, so 10 they didn't want people just painting over 11 it; they wanted somebody to set a clean up 12 standard and that's what this kind of work is 13 all about. These days things are changed. 14 The Mega rule is in place. There are 15 concrete clean-up standards. It is a lot 16 easier than it was in 1985. 17 Q. And then there's a sentence we 18 left out of this blow-up, Mr. Goutman. Do 19 you want me to read that? 20 MR. GOUTMAN: I don't know which 21 one you are looking at. 22 MR. MC CLAIN: Furthermore. 23 We can pick up, "Like capping a landfill", 24 but we left out, "Furthermore. Do you 123 1 saying that the EPA safe level or some state 2 level that gives a buyer a comfort that it is 3 safe. 4 Q. And so you are saying that 5 leaving PCBs in place, even if it is cleaned 6 up to the EPA level, is not always acceptable 7 to the buyer; is that right? 8 A. No, not at all. Quite the 9 contrary, of all of the projects I have 10 worked on or even heard of, nobody has ever 11 removed every last molecule of PCB, so there 12 is always a clean-up standard. It is 13 typically the EPA safe standard and this goes 14 specifically to the question of whether or 15 not you are leaving levels above that 16 standard in place. 17 Q. It says, "Leaving PCB in place 18 even under a protective surface coating is 19 not always acceptable to the buyer"; isn't 20 that what you said? 21 A. Yes. Exact. 22 Q. So even if you coat the PCBs 23 with another material, like resin or an 24 epoxy, to keep it away from people, in your , 125 1 want that one? 2 MR. GOUTMAN: Why don't we 3 read the whole thing? 4 MR. MCCLAIN: Idon't care. 5 I showed you these before. I was being 6 sure about what I show to the witness. 7 MR. GOUTMAN: I apologize. 8 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 9 Q. "Furthermore, coatings have", 10 the sentence that is left out of here, 11 Mr. Woodyard, "Furthermore, coatings have 12 found little acceptance with state agencies 13 and the EPA as a permanent fix", and that's 14 true, isn't it? 15 A. That was true in 1985. Today 16 things are very, very different. It is 17 actually cited in the regulations as an 18 option if you want to use it at any level, by 19 the way. Above any safe level. 20 Q. It says, "Like capping a 21 landfill, coating PCB contamination in 22 concrete requires long term maintenance and 23 long term responsibility for the user." 24 That's what you wrote? ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60795 I f 12 6 1 A. Yes, if you are going to seal 2 high levels of PCBs in concrete you need to 3 make sure that stays good and doesn't get 4 worn out. 5 Q. "Like capping a landfill." What 6 does that mean? What does it mean to cap a 7 landfill? 8 A. Well, understand the audience 9 for this paper was other people in the 10 environmental field. When you close a land 11 disposal site, a sanitary landfill like your 12 solid waste disposal sites or hazardous waste 13 sites, when you close it you have to put 14 something on top. It is called a cap, and 15 basically it is an encapsulation tool. It 16 blocks moisture from going in, it blocks 17 vapors from going out. It is designed to 18 just entomb, if you will, the waste and 19 essentially that's the same sort of thing you 20 are doing if you are coating concrete, you 21 are sealing the PCBs in this case into the 22 concrete so that they can't go anywhere. It 23 is a pretty basic concept. 24 Q. Well, I understand, but we don't 128 1 coatings what you are saying is that the 2 people responsible for the building or the 3 plant or whatever the facility is would have 4 to continually monitor that coating to be 5 sure that it didn't break up; am I right? 6 A. If you leave PCBs underneath 7 that coating above what EPA would consider a 8 safe level, then there is always going to be 9 concern about release. If it is below that 10 level you don't have to seal it. You may 11 want to seal it for your own purposes, but it 12 is certainly no requirement under 13 environmental health regulations. 14 Q. It says, "For these reasons, 15 surface coatings are not considered a 16 decontamination technique per se but serve as 17 a finishing technique following 18 decontamination by other methods." 19 Am I right? 20 A. That was pretty much the case in 21 1985. 22 Q. And the name of this paper was 23 "State-of-the-art Technology for PCB 24 Decontamination of Concrete"; right? 12 7 12 9 1 all have the same experience that you do. Is 1 A. Yes, but the entire focus of 2 that a common thing that is done in the 2 this paper was cleaning concrete. 3 environmental field, capping a hazardous 3 Q. Mr. Woodyard, just one last 4 material? 4 thing I want to ask you about and then I will 5 A. Oh, absolutely. In fact, it is 5 sit down. 6 a requirement under most hazardous waste 6 Mr. Woodyard, you understand 7 regulations to cover either a landfill when 7 that it is the Plaintiffs theory in this 8 it's closed or even an outdoor spill. One of 8 case that the PCBs were spread through the 9 the options that you have with EPA, under 9 ductwork when they were heated during the 10 their standards is to put ten inches of soil 10 heating season, don't you? 11 over top of it and just compact the soil and 11 A. Yes, or somehow came out of 12 leave it there. 12 ductboard adhesive and entered the building. 13 Q. Is that why you wrote, "Leaving 13 Q. And I understand your theory of ) 14 PCBs in place, even under a protective 14 the case that it was spread through the fire. 15 surface coating, is not always acceptable to 15 That is your theory. 16 the buyer"? 16 A. Absolutely. All of it. 17 A. No, that's why I wrote that 17 Q. It is true, isn't it, that if ; I 18 coating requires long term maintenance and 18 there had been no PCBs in that ductwork, 19 responsibilities. You can't just paint it 19 regardless of whether they were spread 20 and leave it; you have to paint it and make 20 through the heating season or through the 21 sure that the paint stays where it is. 21 fire, they couldn't have been spread in the 22 Q. And that's an excellent question 22 Transportation & Safety Building, could they? 23 that I wanted to ask you about. If you leave 23 A. I'm not sure I understand the 24 PCBs in place then under one of these 24 question. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60796 130 1 Q. If there were no PCBs in the 2 ductwork there would have been no PCBs 3 spread, whether it was by the heating season 4 or by the fire from that ductwork; am I 5 right? 6 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, Your 7 Honor. Can we go to side bar? 8 THE COURT: Yes. 9 (Side bar discussion). 10 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, I 11 object to the hypothetical nature of this 12 question, assuming a fact that is not of 13 record and will never be of record which 14 is there was no PCBs there. I don't 15 understand where that hypothetical is 16 coming from. Additionally, it is in the 17 nature of an argument. He is not asking 18 for an opinion or anything; he is trying 19 to make a point that even if the fire 20 caused the PCB spread, we are nonetheless 21 responsible, so he is not seeking an 22 opinion or a fact or anything like that; 23 it is merely argument and I object to it. 24 MR. MC CLAIN: I'm asking him 132 1 foundation for this witness -- 2 MR. MC CLAIN: He's a chemist. 3 He's been qualified as a chemical expert. 4 THE COURT: Mr. Goutman. 5 MR. GOUTMAN: If I could just 6 respond, Your Honor, he has not been 7 qualified as a man who has ever 8 manufactured ductboard in his life. 9 THE COURT: What I understood 10 him to be is certified as an expert in PCB 11 clean-up; not in ductboard manufacturing. 12 MR. MC CLAIN: No, he reviewed 13 all of the ductboard tests from Ms. 14 Herschel manufacturing plant and rendered 15 the opinions about them based on her data, 16 and you allowed it over my objection, so 17 he was qualified as an expert in the 18 manufacture of this ductboard as it 19 relates to this case. 20 MS. HERSCHEL: No, Your Honor, 21 he was simply given technical information 22 that told him that they had submitted the 23 ductboard to various quality tests that 24 involved heat. It did not make him into m d 1 \ it 13 1 1 for his opinion. I'm asking him for his 2 opinion regardless -- 3 THE COURT: If I understood 4 the question, it was if there were no 5 PCBs. 6 MR. MC CLAIN: In the 7 ductwork. 8 THE COURT: That seems to be 9 argument rather than a question of 10 probative value because there are PCBs, 11 and consequently we are assuming a fact 12 that is not in evidence. 13 MR. MCCLAIN: I'm asking him 14 a different question and then maybe I can 15 follow-up with it. 16 THE COURT: We will see. 17 MR. GOUTMAN: Do you want to 18 ask the question here? 19 THE COURT: Give me the 20 question first. 21 MR. MC CLAIN: The question is 22 can ductboard be manufactured without 23 PCBs. 24 MR. GOUTMAN: There's no 133 1 an expert on the manufacture of ductboard 2 or whether it could be manufactured with 3 or without PCBs. 4 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, I 5 think this is in the nature of argument 6 again. He wants to make a point that you 7 can make ductboard without PCBs. Again, 8 the ductboard in this case did have PCBs 9 and asking this expert, who is a PCB 10 clean-up expert, about whether in 1965 11 ductboard could be manufactured without 12 PCBs is pretty far afield from anything 13 this witness has testified about or his 14 expertise. 15 MR. MCCLAIN: I'm just going 16 on what you qualified him to talk about. 17 He has talked extensively about the 18 manufacture of this ductboard from your 19 plants and how it was heated to 300 20 degrees, it never lost any of its 21 stability, that it all remained intact. 22 He reviewed the graph for the jury about 23 your ductboard. You are the one that 24 qualified him as an expert in this area. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60797 134 1 MS. HERSCHEL: But he offered 2 no opinions on what plasticizers could be 3 used or not used in glues. That's not his 4 area. It is just a big finish, Your 5 Honor. It is an argument. It is 6 improper. 7 MR. MC CLAIN: They went into 8 this extensively in their examination and 9 gave him all of the manufacturing 10 documents and reviewed them and said he 11 was familiar with them and knew how this 12 was all put together. They went to great 13 lengths to qualify him as an expert on 14 this ductboard. 15 MR. GOUTMAN: To the contrary, 16 Your Honor, we made a point that he was 17 not being offered as an expert in the 18 manufacture of ductboard. He was using 19 facts from the testing of the ductboard to 20 support his opinion concerning the 21 chemical behavior of PCBs in glue, which 22 he can do as somebody who knows something 23 about PCBs, but whether it could be 24 ductboard without PCBs, he's not been 136 1 A. Yes, I did. 2 Q. Did you ever see any warning on 3 that ductboard that it contained PCBs? 4 MS. HERSCHEL: Objection, Your 5 Honor. This is an expert. This is 6 outside the scope of what he's being 7 offered for Direct, Cross, or anything 8 else. 9 THE COURT: Overruled. 10 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 11 Q. Did you, sir? 12 A. No, I looked at the duct in 13 several different locations and didn't see 14 any labels. 15 MR. MCCLAIN: Thank you. No 16 further questions. 17 THE COURT: Mr. Neal. 18 MR. NEAL: Yes, sir. 19 MR. MC CLAIN: Your Honor, 20 just so the record is clear, what we would 21 like to offer into evidence are Exhibits 22 4006 F, 4006 G, and 4006 I. They were the 23 concrete paper excerpts that I just read 24 from and I would like to move those into 135 137 1 qualified as that. 1 evidence. 2 THE COURT: The question that 2 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, we 3 you really want to ask is whether or not 3 have an objection. We can state it at 4 ductboard back in 1965 or that era could 4 some other time if The Court could reserve 5 have been manufactured without PCBs, if I 5 ruling so that we could move along. 6 understand you correctly. 6 THE COURT: I will reserve the 7 MR. MC CLAIN: I was not going 7 ruling on it. 8 to ask that question, but I will. 8 MR. MC CLAIN: And likewise, 9 THE COURT: No, I'm just 9 Your Honor, 4006 B, 4006 E, 4006 D, and 10 trying - 10 4006 C are the other quotations that I 1I 11 MR. MC CLAIN: I could ask him 11 made from the concrete paper and I would 12 does he know and if he doesn't know he 12 move them into evidence at this time. 13 doesn't know and we will move off it. 13 THE COURT: We will reserve 14 MS. HERSCHEL: But it is not 14 ruling on them. 15 his area of expertise, Your Honor. 15 MR. NEAL: May I proceed, Your 16 THE COURT: But the point is 16 Honor? 17 it was made, it was in place, and the 17 THE COURT: You may proceed. 18 objection is sustained because it is a 18 MR. NEAL: Good afternoon, 19 fact. It is a non factor in this case. 19 ladies and gentlemen. 20 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 20 (Jury responds good afternoon) 21 Q. Mr. Woodyard, you did inspect 21 -- 22 this building; am I right? 22 BY MR. NEAL: 23 A. Yes, sir. 23 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Woodyard. 24 Q. Did you inspect the ductboard? 24 A. Good afternoon. ESQUIRE DE POSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60798 138 1 Q. Mr. Woodyard, you have testified 2 on Direct about certain opinions and in it 3 you have talked about opinions offered by Mr. 4 Kominsky and there are some areas, am I 5 correct, that you agree with Mr. Kominsky and 6 some areas, did you not? 7 MS. HERSCHEL: Mr. Neal, I'm 8 sorry. I can't hear you. 9 THE COURT: Mr. Neal, could 10 you use the microphone. 11 BY MR. NEAL: 12 Q. Let me start over again. 13 On your Direct testimony you 14 discussed not only your opinions, but you 15 discussed opinions and testimony from Mr. 16 Kominsky; is that correct? 17 A. Yes, sir. 18 Q. And there are some areas, am I 19 correct, that you agree with Mr. Kominsky and 20 some areas you disagree; is that correct? 21 A. That's true. 22 Q. And for the purposes of here 23 today I'm going to try to eliminate certain 24 areas so that we don't have to go over those, 140 1 was also another type of Aroclor there for 2 which there was no source. 3 Q. And which you indicated was 4 background level? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. So all we are concerned about is 7 known sources in the contamination aspect of 8 the Transportation & Safety Building and one 9 was 1262 and one was 1242; is that correct? 10 A. That's correct. 11 Q. That is what Mr. Kominsky 12 indicated also. Forget 1254; is that 13 correct? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. So that you have the PCB 16 contamination in the Transportation & Safety 17 Building from Aroclor 1262 and 1242; is that 18 correct? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And in that you are in agreement 21 with Mr. Kominsky; is that correct? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And, secondly, you have 24 testified that the source of that, forget for 4 1 u 4 4 i 139 1 so if you could bear with me. I can do it 2 from here. It is your testimony, is it not, 3 Mr. Woodyard, that the source or the PCB 4 contamination that was in the Transportation 5 & Safety Building came from Aroclor 1262 and 6 Aroclor 1242; is that correct? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. Okay. So that we have, and you 9 read Mr. Kominsky's testimony, have you not, 10 and you were present when he testified? 11 A. Yes. 12 Clarification on the last point. 13 You said the contamination in the 14 Transportation & Safety Building -- 15 Q. Correct. 16 A. -- came from 1262 and 1242. 17 Those were the types of Aroclors released 18 from the burnt light fixtures and ductboard. 19 Q. And as you have testified, the 20 contamination was from the 1262 and the 1242; 21 is that correct? 22 A. The contamination that we are 23 concerned with here in the clean-up sense, as 24 Mr. Kominsky pointed out in his report, there 14 1 1 the moment how it got there, the source of 2 the 1262 in the Transportation & Safety 3 Building was the adhesive/mastic from the 4 ductwork; is that correct? 5 A. Well, I believe my testimony was 6 that the difference between the pre-fire and 7 post-fire 1262 concentrations was the result 8 of the fire. 9 Q. But you also indicated that the 10 contamination in that building came from the 11 burning up of the ductwork which produced 12 Aroclor 1262 and from the light ballasts, 13 which produced 1242; is that correct? 14 A. Yes, maybe I'm just quibbling on 15 a fine point, but my point was that our data 16 showed that there was 1262 present from the 17 pre-fire samples. 18 Q. We will get to that in a moment. 19 A. But you understand my point. 20 There is a difference between what you said 21 and what I said. 22 Q. We are going to get to that, but 23 for the moment the 1262 that was the source 24 of the contamination was one of the Aroclors i m 1 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60799 142 144 1 found as a contaminant in the Transportation 1 BY MR. NEAL: 2 & Safety Building; is that correct? 2 Q. Let me see if I can narrow again 3 A. That's correct. 3 the areas. You are saying, and forget for 4 Q. And the source of that 1262 was 4 the moment, we will get to this, you are 5 the adhesive in the ductwork; is that 5 saying that there was some 1262 found 6 correct. 6 pre-fire; correct? 7 A. The source of the 1262 deposited 7 A. That's correct. 8 by the fire was the ductwork. 8 Q. The contamination we are talking 9 Q. So the source of the 1262, 9 about, forget for the moment, I know that's 10 Aroclor 1262, and I'm correct, it is the 10 part of your opinion, but forget for the 11 adhesive. We can call it adhesive or mastic 11 moment whether there was pre-fire, that the 12 from the ductwork; is that correct? 12 1262, as a result of the fire in your opinion 'I 13 Regardless of, we are talking about 13 came from the ductwork, the adhesive in the 14 regardless of whether it was deposited by the 14 ductwork; correct? 15 fire or, as Mr. Kominsky said, volatilized; 15 A. The 1262 that was deposited i 16 is that correct? 17 A. Well, just for clarification, I 16 during the fire came from the ductwork. 17 Q. And that's the only known source 18 want to make sure that everybody understands. 18 in the Transportation & Safety Building of 19 We have found in our testing that 1262 was 19 1262, as far as your review is concerned; 20 present in the pre-fire fireproofing samples. 20 correct? 21 I have not testified that that particular 21 A. That's correct. % 22 part of the 1262 came from the ductwork. We 22 Q. And the source of the Aroclor 23 have identified that as background for which 23 1242 was the light ballast; is that correct? 24 we have not identified a source. 24 A. Yes, that's correct. 143 145 1 Q. Mr. Woodyard, in your January 1 Q. Because, as far as you know, 2 28, 2000 testimony on page 61 you were asked, 2 that's the only known source in that building 3 "Sir", this is page 14, "based upon your 3 of Aroclor 1242. 4 experience of 20 odd years all over the world 4 A. Correct, and there is evidence 5 in PCB work could you tell the jury where the 5 that light ballasts burned in the fire. 6 PCBs came from in the T & S Building", and 6 Q. And it is your opinion also that 7 the answer was, "The PCBs came from PCB 7 the 1262 and the 1242 from the fire was 8 containing building products that were burned 8 deposited on the fireproofing; is that 9 up in the fire", and then you were asked 9 correct? 10 again-- 10 A. Yes, sir. 11 MR. GOUTMAN: What page were 11 Q. And so that the fireproofing was 12 you on? I can't keep up with you. What 12 the recipient of the 1262 and the 1242. 13 page are you on? 13 A. Yes, that's correct. i 14 MR. NEAL: Page 61. 14 Q. And it is your opinion, is it 15 THE COURT: I'm sorry. What 15 not, Mr. Woodyard, that it's not the source 16 page? 16 we are concerned with, it is how it got -- 17 MR. NEAL: 61, Your Honor. 17 you are saying that the fire spread the PCBs 18 THE COURT: May I have the 18 rather than volatilization spreading the 19 date again? 19 PCBs; is that correct? 20 MR. NEAL: That's January 28, 20 A. That's correct. 21 2000. 21 Q. And that's all in agreement with 22 MR. GOUTMAN: Where on 61? 22 what Mr. Kominsky testified to, correct, that 23 What line? 23 1262 came from the ductwork, the adhesive in 24 MR. NEAL: Line 14. 24 the ductwork; the 1242 came from the light ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOO6O8OO 14 6 1 ballasts and the fireproofing was the 2 recipient. 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Now, when did you visit the 5 site, the Transportation & Safety Building? 6 A. I believe both times was 1997. 7 I don't recall the exact dates. 8 Q. And prior to going out to the 9 site did you receive any information from 10 CertainTeed or Monsanto with regards to PCBs 11 in any of the products? 12 A. I may have. I really don't 13 recall. 14 Q. When you went there what was 15 your objective in going there? 16 A. Well, the first time it was more 17 or less a tour. It was on the non fire 18 floors, the floors that had recently been 19 occupied and it was to walk around and get 20 familiar with the building, look above the 21 ceiling. The ductwork, for example. But not 22 with any particular focus in mind. 23 Q. And what floors were you not 24 able to get on? 148 1 couple of cases open light fixtures and look 2 in. It was nothing terribly complicated and 3 no one directed us otherwise. 4 Q. How long were you there at that 5 site, at the Transportation & Safety 6 Building? 7 A Between, the first visit, 8 between half a day and a day; the second 9 visit again at least a half day. 10 Q. And in the second visit, when 11 you went there, was not for the purposes of 12 looking above the ceiling or anything else; 13 it was to look through the refuse; is that 14 correct? 15 A. Yes, the primary purpose of our 16 visit was to go on to the sixth floor and 17 look at the refuse and the general condition 18 of the floor. 19 Q. When you went there and you 20 looked above the ceiling did you have to push 21 the tile away, was it already open - 22 A. I think in a couple of cases the 23 ceiling tiles move up and down very easily. 24 You push on them. We pushed them up enough 147 1 A. Floors four through seven. 2 Q. So floors one through three and 3 eight through the penthouse you were able to 4 get on; is that correct? 5 A. Yes, that's correct. 6 Q. And when you went there you took 7 the tour and you said that you went above the 8 ceiling on a couple of occasions? 9 A. Yes, that's correct. 10 Q. What floors? 11 A. I don't recall. 12 Q. Were they the higher floors? 13 The lower floors? 14 A. I think it was both. 15 Q. You think maybe one of the lower 16 floors and one of the higher floors? 17 A. At least. I think that's a fair 18 statement. 19 Q. And were you, when you went 20 there and you went above the ceiling, did you 21 have to use any kind of protection? 22 A. No, we were escorted and all we 23 did, in looking above the ceiling, was to 24 push up the ceiling tiles and look in or in a _ 14 9 1 to look and see what the condition was. I 2 think in at least one case they had installed 3 a, if I'm not mistaken, a plexiglas shield 4 where you could actually look into the 5 ceiling without pushing one of the ceiling 6 tiles out of the way, so it made it easier to 7 do. 8 Q. And when you went above the 9 ceiling, I shouldn't say how long did you 10 remain above the ceiling, but how long did 11 you look? Did you look around to see where 12 everything was and where it was located? 13 A. In general. I would say maybe 14 less than a minute per look, if you will. 15 Q. And on that occasion you saw the 16 ductwork; is that correct? 17 A. Yes, I think in every case we 18 saw the ductwork, fireproofing. 19 Q. And when you looked at the 20 ductwork did you actually touch the ductwork? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Did you take any kind of sample 23 from the ductwork? 24 A. No, we did not. 1 J ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOO6O8OI I 150 152 1 Q. Were you told before you went 1 is adhesive; is that correct? 2 there that there was an allegation that the 2 A. Yes. 3 PCBs came from the ductwork? 3 Q. And they can be added to other 4 A. I don't recall the sequence, 4 things such as paint; correct? 5 quite honestly. 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. When you found out that the 6 Q. And other mastics; is that 7 allegation was that the 1262 came from the 7 correct? 8 ductwork did you ask to go back and look 8 A. Yes, that's my understanding. 9 again at the ductwork? f] 10 A. No. 9 Q. And we are talkingabout mastics 10 such as floor tile; is that correct? 11 Q. So you didn't touch it; is that 11 Underneath. 12 correct? 12 A. I don'thave experience and I 13 A. Right. 13 have not seen evidence that that's the case. 14 Q. And I think you testified that 14 I have seen evidence that there is PCB 15 from your observation it looked in good 15 contamination in some of this glue or mastic 16 condition. 16 material like there was in the Transportation 17 A. Yes, based on that, based on 17 & Safety Building, but it is at extremely low 18 other photographs I have seen. There was a 18 levels. It has no functional value in the 19 number of things that I relied on to have 19 mastic. It is an accident. Could be from 20 that opinion. 20 waste oil. It could be from other sources of 21 Q. What photographs did you look 21 contamination. 22 at? 22 Q. And let me ask you the question 23 A. There were photographs from a 23 outright: If PCBs are lost from an adhesive 24 couple different items I received. The 24 would it become brittle? 151 1 sampling work that was done pre-fire by Law 2 Engineering was an example. I think Mr. 3 Kominsky's photographs and his expert report 4 is another example. 5 Q. And your testimony was that if 6 the PCBs were not in the adhesive it would 7 have been brittle, is that correct, and the 8 ductwork would have fallen apart? 9 A Yes, I don't believe I testified 10 it would have been brittle; I think I 11 testified that the ductwork would have lost 12 its integrity and just started to collapse as 13 its adhesive went away. 14 Q. Do you recall testifying that in 15 the manufacturing process that it would have 16 become brittle, that is, the adhesive, if it 17 had lost the PCBs? 18 A. I don't remember testifying to 19 that effect. 20 Q. Mr. Woodyard, PCBs are added as 21 a plasticizer, is that correct, into certain 22 products? 23 A. Yes, that's correct. 24 Q. And in this particular case it 153 1 A. I suspect if all of the PCBs 2 were lost, let's start from that, if all of 3 the PCBs went out of it there would be no 4 plasticizers, so it certainly would be less 5 flexible. 6 Q. So if you testified on the same 7 day, January 28, 2000, on page 136, line 8 seven, where it says, "If the PCBs had left 9 the glue what would happen to the glue back 10 at the plant? 11 "Well, the glue is the 12 plasticizer so it would become rigid, 13 brittle." 14 A. Fair enough. The term left the 15 glue is kind of vague, but I'm assuming we 16 are talking about all of the PCBs left the 17 glue. 18 Q. Well, have you ever done tests 19 on an adhesive to see at what point it 20 becomes brittle? 21 A. No, I have not. 22 Q. Is there any article that you 23 can cite us to or textbook that indicates 24 that all of the PCBs have to be lost before ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060802 154 1 it becomes brittle? 2 A. No, I have not seen any such 3 article. 4 Q. Now, you also indicated that it 5 would fall apart; is that correct? 6 A. I don't know what exact terms I 7 used. I seem to recall saying it would have 8 collapsed if there was no glue holding this 9 rigid duct together. 10 Q. What do you mean by collapse? 11 A. Under its own weight. Part of 12 the structure of the ductwork is the glue, 13 and if the glue goes away or becomes brittle 14 or loses its integrity you would expect the 15 ductwork to have nothing holding it up at 16 that point. 17 Q. Well, we are talking about, if 18 we are talking about the ductboard, the 19 purpose of the adhesive was not to give it 20 rigidity, was it? 21 A. No, the primary purpose was to 22 attach the fiberglass to the foil. 23 Q. So that whatever - do you know 24 how much adhesive is added when they adhere 156 1 Q. Other than that you haven't 2 spoken, other than having these documents, 3 which you have referred to dining the course 4 of your testimony, you haven't spoken to 5 anybody from CertainTeed as to how they 6 manufacture it; correct? 7 A. In general, no. Like I said, I 8 did get some additional background on how 9 much was used to make it and things of that 10 nature. 11 Q. Where did you get that from? 12 A. From CertainTeed. 13 Q. Directly from CertainTeed. 14 A. Well, through counsel. 15 Q. You were never present to see 16 how it was manufactured; is that correct? 17 A. That's correct. 18 Q. You have never been present to 19 see how it is fabricated at the site; is that 20 correct? 21 A. No, that's correct. 22 Q. The only information you have 23 with how that ductboard, with its adhesive 24 and aluminum jacket, is fabricated is from f i J '^ 1 .j . 155 1 the ductwork to the foil? 2 A. Yes, I believe it is on the 3 order of five to eight grams per square foot, 4 I think is the number I recall. 5 Q. And so we are talking about a 6 situation where the ductboard, itself, 7 doesn't fall apart; correct, but you are 8 talking about the fact that the aluminum foil 9 would separate from the adhesive. 10 A. Yes, at least, and that would be 11 evident looking at the ductboard. 12 Q. Well, that ductboard, and you 13 have documents which were given to you by 14 CertainTeed which indicated how it was 15 fabricated; is that correct? 16 A. Actually the documents I 17 think--well, I'm sorry. Maybe I jumped 18 ahead. When you say fabricated you are 19 referring to how it is made into a 20 rectangular piece of duct or a flat piece of 21 duct? 22 Q. Correct. 23 A. Yes, that's correct. I had 24 instructions about that. 157 1 the documents which you referred to in your 2 Direct testimony; is that correct? 3 A. Yes, and as I mentioned at my 4 deposition testimony, I had some experience 5 making ductboard of other type, so I had a 6 pretty good idea how it is made. 7 Q. You never fabricated, itself, 8 I'm talking about the ductboard, itself, did 9 you? 10 A. No, I don't recall fabricating 11 using their ductboard. 12 Q. And you never saw them put it 13 together; correct? 14 A. No, that's correct. 15 Q. You never saw them do the 16 heating test, did you? 17 A. Heating? 18 Q. Cure it. 19 A. Oh, no, I didn't see that. You 20 are talking about the quality assurance 21 testing back at Gustin-Bacon? 22 Q. Right. 23 A. No, I never saw that. 24 Q. What did you do during that f J j ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060803 158 160 1 summer that you were there? 1 certain, I don't know how wide it would be, 2 A. The summer that I was -- 2 let's say an inch, they would cut a groove 3 Q. Saw fabrication of ductwork or 3 along there and then they would take off that 4 manufacturing of ductwork. 4 insulation so that the aluminum was there so 5 A. I'm confused. 5 that they could wrap it around, fit the 6 Q. You said you had a summer job. 6 joints together, and put the aluminum over 7 A. Oh, yes. I'm sorry. The work I 7 it; is that correct? 8 did, the summers when I was in college to 8 A. Yes, that's correct. 9 work my way through school, was in a sheet 9 Q. And when they do that on site, 10 metal shop or what is called a sheet metal 10 and this is on site now, they have to scrape 11 shop. It is basically a duct fabrication 11 away the adhesive on the aluminum foil, do 12 facility in North Jersey and we spent all day 12 they not? 13 making different shapes and sizes of ductwork 13 A. I believe so. To the extent 14 for ventilation contractors to install. 14 that they can. # 15 Q. That's cutting the pieces to the 15 Q. Well, doesn't it say in the 16 requisite size; is that correct? 16 documents which you were referring to, in the 17 A. Yes. Right, using different 17 instructions as how to do it, that you cut 18 sizes, using different types of materials of 18 away and take away the insulation and then 19 construction, using different types of 19 you scrape all of the adhesive from the 20 bending equipment or forming equipment or 20 overlapping aluminum foil? 21 sealing equipment. Duct tape, of course. 21 A. Right. 22 Q. Now, when that is fabricated, 22 Q. And then they take that aluminum 23 that being the ductwork is fabricated on 23 foil and they pull it tight and they staple 24 site, it comes in sheets; is that correct? 24 it; isn't that correct? 159 161 1 A. Yes, sir. 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. And these sheets have joint 2 Q. And on top of the stapling they 3 areas where it can be followed; is that 3 then put the heat sealing tape; is that 4 correct? 4 correct? 5 A. Yes. Actually, I think you have 5 A. That's correct. 6 to make the cut to make the fold. The sheet 6 Q. So that if the ductwork and the 7 just comes plain and you have to cut the 7 adhesive became brittle how would you be able 8 grooves. 8 to see, how would the ductwork just fail, how 9 Q. And you also have to, so that 9 would it just drop? You have stapling of the 10 you can join once you have cut it and you put 10 aluminum foil and you have heat sealing tape 11 it into a rectangle, you also have to cut 11 over the top. i 12 away some of that insulation so that you have 12 A. Well, you are talking, I'm 13 an overlapping piece of alluminum; is that 13 sorry, we have shifted subjects a little bit, 14 correct? 14 at least in my mind. Originally we were 15 A. Yes, sir. 15 talking about the ductwork. Now we are 16 Q. And in the documents which you 16 talking about the area where the tape is 17 gave us, which you said you relied upon, they 17 applied to the ductwork. 18 indicate, do they not, that when they cut 18 Q. No, what we are talking about is 19 away that insulation to give you the over 19 you said that if the adhesive became brittle 20 hanging piece of aluminum foil, and we are 20 while it was up there the ductwork would just 21 talking about four by 10's? 21 collapse. That was your testimony, was it 22 A. That's correct. 22 not? 23 Q. So we are talking about the ten 23 A. Yes. I understand. 24 foot length and they cut along there a 24 Q. And that would mean that the ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060804 162 1 aluminum foil would become apart from the 2 adhesive; is that correct? 3 A. Yes, that's true. 4 Q. But that it wouldn't collapse 5 because it is stapled on and has this heat 6 sealing tape on it so you wouldn't just have 7 a collapse of the aluminum; is that correct? 8 A. No, but it would be disfigured 9 in some way so that you would be able to look 10 at the outside and see that it is bubbled or 11 misshapened or something. Much like you saw 12 in the fire. For example, where there was 13 heat contact but not destruction. There was 14 some distortion of the ductwork that made it 15 look very different than what it does in the 16 rest of the building. 17 Q. But the only way you could tell 18 whether the adhesive was not adhering the way 19 it should or whether the adhesive had gotten 20 brittle would be actually cutting it and 21 taking a look at it, touching it as far as 22 the texture is concerned; correct? 23 A. If you -- like I said -- I 24 thought I was clear. If the adhesive starts 164 1 did you? 2 A. No, from what I saw there and in 3 photographs it was doing its job. It was 4 still intact. The ductwork was still rigid 5 and it was still working. 6 Q. And it would have been easy, 7 would it not, for you just to take a sample 8 of the aluminum foil and adhesive while you 9 were there on your site visit, would it not? 10 A. Certainly. If I had wanted to. 11 Q. And that would have proven 12 conclusively to you whether it was brittle or 13 not brittle; correct? 14 A. Yes, but, again, I have seen no 15 evidence that it was brittle in other 16 people's samples. 17 Q. How many miles of ductwork are 18 there in the Transportation & Safety 19 Building? 20 A. Again, I think the number was 16 21 miles. 22 Q. And so on the basis of going 23 above the ceiling for half a minute and 24 looking at the ductwork on two occasions you ;] 1 # j 163 1 to fail, the foil and the fiberglass are 2 going to separate. You are going to see some 3 evidence of that in looking at the outside of 4 the foil on the ductwork. 5 Q. Now, you had this aluminum foil 6 which is wrapped tightly around the 7 ductboard; is that correct? 8 A. Yes, sir. 9 Q. And it is stapled; correct? 10 A. Yes, sir. 11 Q. And there's a heat sealing tape; 12 correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. So how much would you see of the 15 aluminum foil buckling, dropping, or whatever 16 if it became brittle underneath? 17 A. I really don't know. I didn't 18 test it. 19 Q. You didn't test it. 20 A. I didn't test to see what would 21 happen exactly if you did what you are 22 describing. 23 Q. And you didn't test to see if, 24 in fact, the adhesive, itself, was brittle, 165 1 determined that the adhesive was not brittle; 2 is that correct? 3 A. No, the basis for my opinions 4 and my testimony certainly isn't as simple a 5 thing as inspecting the ductwork. I mean, in 6 order for that PCB, and we are talking about 7 five to eight grams per square foot, we are 8 talking about an adhesive that is 20 percent 9 or 18 percent PCB, that's a lot of adhesive 10 in that building. In order for that ductwork 11 to get that brittle, an incredible amount of 12 PCBs would have had to come out of the 13 ductwork, and it just wouldn't -- it is just 14 totally inconsistent with the data in this 15 case. 16 Q. But the easy way to tell if it 17 was brittle would be to take a sample of it. 18 To actually remove the aluminum foil and take 19 a sample; correct? 20 A. It is simple. If I had wanted 21 to do that. Certainly. 22 Q. If you had wanted to do that, 23 but instead you looked at it on two occasions 24 for about a half minute above the ceiling, j ] ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES i * TOWOLDMON0060805 166 168 1 looked at some photographs and made a 1 Tom, did you have these 2 determination that it wasn't brittle, that 2 marked? I only have the deposition 3 none of the PCBs had escaped; is that 3 number. 4 correct. 4 MR. GOUTMAN: The mark should 5 A. Two questions. As far as being 5 be on your copy. DCT. You are right. 6 brittle, I looked at it and looked at the 6 BY MR. NEAL: 7 information provided by other people and 7 Q. Do you have yours with you? 8 their analysis. I didn't see evidence of it 8 A. Yes, Ido. This is the one that 9 being brittle. 9 I had with me at the deposition. 10 As far as the PCBs still being 10 MR. NEAL: Your Honor, do you 11 11 there, sure, every sample that has ever been 11 have your copy? 12 taken show that PCBs are still in the 12 THE COURT: Tell me what you 13 adhesive in the ductwork. It is still doing 13 are referring to. 14 its job. 14 MR. NEAL: I will hand it up 15 Q. But you are saying that all of 15 to you. f 16 the PCBs would have to leave in order for it 16 MR. GOUTMAN: What exhibit i 1 17 to become brittle. How do you know that? 17 number? 18 A. I testified that I have seen 18 THE WITNESS: Mr. Neal, which 19 articles that show at what point some PCB 19 specific one are you talking about? 20 loss percentage, let's say, that duct 20 BY MR. NEAL: 21 actually would start to delaminate or fall 21 Q. Would you look at, please, DCT 22 apart or collapse or whatever. I don't know 22 20? It is a memo dated July 15,1964. 23 the answer to that question. 23 A. DCT 20. 24 Q. So that there could be PCB loss 24 THE COURT: Is that in the 167 169 1 without the adhesive becoming brittle to 1 exhibit that you have given to The Court? 2 cause the aluminum foil in the ductwork to be 2 MR. NEAL: Yes, there are a 3 damaged; is that correct? It is possible. 3 whole bunch of exhibits together that you 4 A Certainly it is possible, but as 4 can see. Those are the documents to which 5 we talked about during my deposition, the 5 Mr. Woodyard referred to. 6 testing protocols that are used or were used 6 THE COURT: We are going to 7 by Gustin-Bacon in making this material 7 take a short recess. 8 heated the PCBs to relatively high 8 (Court recessed) 9 temperatures, certainly a lot higher than 9 MR. EDGE: You may be seated. 10 they would have experienced in the building, 10 This Court is in session. 11 and in that process there might have been 11 MR. NEAL: May I proceed, Your 12 some material lost and it was designed to 12 Honor? 13 show that there wouldn't be any structural 13 THE COURT: Yes, you may. 14 change. 14 BY MR. NEAL: 15 Q. As a matter of fact, the 15 Q. Mr. Woodyard, did you have a 16 documents that you received to review in 16 chance took at what I guess is marked as DCT 17 connection with this indicated that after 17 20? ] 18 doing that process of heating it, in fact, 18 A. Yes, DCT 20 is what I think you 19 the bonding failed between the aluminum foil 19 originally called it. 20 and the adhesive; isn't that correct? 20 Q. And that's one of the documents 21 A. Could you say that again? 21 that was given to you; is that correct? 22 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, Your 22 A. Yes. 23 Honor if there's a document -- 23 Q. And I am correct that other than 24 MR. NEAL: Yes, I have one. 24 these documents and a brief conversation you ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOO6O8O6 170 1 had or information related to you about the 2 amount of adhesive, you didn't discuss any of 3 this with any employees of CertainTeed; is 4 that correct? 5 A. That's correct. 6 Q. And you never asked to go out 7 there and talk to anyone; is that correct? 8 A. No, that's correct. 9 Q. And with regard to the documents 10 you were provided, the talk about the one I'm 11 referring to, which is DCT 20, which is a 12 July 13,1964 memo, was a document in which 13 they were going through what is called the 14 curing process; is that correct? 15 A. Yes, specifically they were 16 looking at different adhesive blends and how 17 they affected the curing process. 18 Q. And how many PCBs, how much PCBs 19 was in there? 20 A. I was told it was 18 percent 21 roughly by weight, and there were about five 22 to eight grams of adhesive per square foot. 23 Q. And, again, it was used, the 24 PCBs were used as a plasticizer so that it 172 1 Q. I'm looking at the second 2 paragraph where it starts, "The first 3 adhesive used was Momingstar Paisley 2581." 4 A. Right. That's not the adhesive 5 we are talking about in this case. 6 Q. Do you know what adhesive was 7 used? 8 A. Adhesive aef-6 rewrite I think 9 is the one that's referred to down here 10 toward the bottom as the one that contains 11 Aroclor 1262. 12 Q. This is in July 15,1964; is 13 that correct? 14 A. I believe so. 15 Q. Do you know what Aroclor 16 Momingstar Paisley 2521 contained? 17 A. Not offhand. I don't know if it 18 is contained in these other documents I 19 provided you. 20 Q. But it is none of the documents 21 that you can recall reviewing; is that 22 correct? 23 A. Perhaps not. I provided you 24 copies with what I reviewed. 171 1 would remain pliable and soft; is that 2 correct? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And it would allow the bond to 5 keep its integrity; is that correct? 6 A. The bond between the fiberglass 7 and the foil, that's correct. 8 Q. And in this particular instance 9 they were testing a certain adhesive, putting 10 it through what is called the curing or 11 drying phase, and to determine whether the 12 adhesive was, in fact, acting as an adhesive 13 to bond the foil to the ductwork; is that 14 correct? 15 A. Yes, I believe so. 16 Q. And the first adhesive they 17 tried they heated it up in an oven and then 18 said after several weeks, after doing this, 19 and putting it in a carton, after several 20 weeks in the cartoon the facing would peal 21 way from the board under its own weight; is 22 that correct? 23 A. Which paragraph are you looking 24 at? . 173 1 Q. So whatever we have is what you 2 have in front of you; is that correct? 3 A. I believe so. 4 Q. So they tried this first 5 adhesive and found out that after the curing 6 process, when they put the ductboard with the 7 aluminum foil in cartons after a couple of 8 weeks the bond failed. Is that correct? 9 A. Yes, that's true. 10 Q. And then they tried another 11 adhesive; is that correct? 12 A. Yes, that's correct. 13 Q. And if you will take a look at 14 where it starts, "The second adhesive", it 15 says in the last sentence, "The expansion and 16 the drying of the adhesive, while the facing 17 and board were out of contact with each other 18 did not provide the well adhered product that 19 was required"; is that correct? So, again, 20 they were having a problem with the aluminum 21 film adhering to the ductwork; correct? 22 A. Yes, they were experimenting 23 with different types of adhesive to see which 24 ones worked best. * J I 1 I 1 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES m TOWOLDMON0060807 4 174 176 1 Q. Then they tried to do it with 1 necessarily what would cause air pockets to 2 the adhesive being wet and it still failed; 2 form between the foil and -- 3 is that correct? 3 Q. You just indicated earlier in 4 A. I think it refers to corrosion 4 your testimony that air pockets would form, 5 in that case. It didn't refer to the 5 bubbles. Bubbles are air pockets, are they 6 adhesive failing, but being packed wet, with 6 not? 7 the aluminum corroded after several weeks in 7 A. Well, yes, earlier in my 8 the carton. 8 testimony I was talking about how if the glue 9 Q. Which would then cause the 9 lost its integrity somehow and we were 10 aluminum to separate from the adhesive and 10 focusing on the plasticizer that it might 11 ductboard; is that correct? 11 delaminate essentially. The foil comes apart 12 A That I don't know. It certainly 12 from the fiberglass. There are.probably a 13 was a defective product if it was 13 number of ways that could occur, one of which 14 manufactured that way because there are 14 is would be a PCB loss. 15 corrosion related tests as part of the 15 Q. And an example of that is the 16 standard specifications. 16 drying out process; is that not correct? 17 Q. Then in the next one, DCT 137, 17 A. Drying outside process -- 18 do you have that in front of you? 18 Q. The curing process. The heating 19 THE COURT: That's the next 19 it up to a certain temperature to see if the 20 page; is that correct? 20 adhesive will fail. 21 MR. NEAL: Next page. That's 21 A. Yes. That's the purpose of the 22 correct. 22 experiment, is to make sure that they are 23 THE WITNESS: Okay. I'm 23 making a good product. 24 looking at it. 24 Q. And one, as you just indicated, 175 177 1 MS. HERSCHEL: Mr. Neal, can 1 one of the reasons for failure could be that 2 you wait just a second while I shuffle 2 the PCBs have volatilized or left the 3 away? 3 product; is that correct? 4 Sorry. 4 A I don't know that based on what 5 BY MR. NEAL: 5 I have seen here. 6 Q. Then, again, that was a test 6 Q. No, because you weren't there 7 involving trying to adhere the ductwork to 7 and you have done no tests in that regard; is 8 the aluminum; is that correct? 8 that correct? 9 A Yes, sir. 9 A That's true. 10 Q. And they indicate, in the second 10 Q. And you could have done a test l 11 to last sentence in that first paragraph, 11 where you take ductboard with the adhesive 12 "The biggest problem appears to be air 12 with aluminum foil, heated it up to see 13 pockets when the adhesive dries out of 13 whether, in fact, there was any loss of PCBs; 14 contact with the ductboard"; is that correct? 14 correct? You could measure that. 15 A. Yes, that's whatit says. 15 A. I could have done that, yes. 16 Q. So that we have the adhesive 16 Q. And one of the explanations, if 17 which is drying. It is not as pliable, it is 17 it leaves, then the bond fails between the 18 not as flexible, and the bonding fails in 18 adhesive and the aluminum foil; correct? 19 this particular test. 19 A That's one possible explanation. 20 A Yes. 20 Q. And in the memo you have and in 21 Q. And the PCBs were supposedly in 21 the memo you read previously the bond failed 22 that adhesive at the time they performed 22 between the aluminum foil and the adhesive; 23 these tests; correct? 23 is that correct? 24 A Yes, but the adhesive isn't 24 A. Right, but the reason why it ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOO6O8O8 178 1 failed is not clear. They didn't conclude it 2 was loss of PCB or anything in particular. 3 They are more concerned about whether the 4 bond holds. 5 Q. When you saw this and when you 6 read this did you call up CertainTeed and say 7 Hey, wait a minute. I'm a little concerned. 8 It says here it failed. Why did it fail? Do 9 you know? Did you ever ask them that? 10 A. No, I didn't see a need to given 11 the information that I already had. 12 Q. When you knew that one of the 13 reasons that it could fail is the loss of 14 PCBs did you ever ask them, Hey, did you ever 15 do a test to find out whether PCBs are lost 16 and that's one of the reasons why the 17 adhesive is failing? 18 A. Perhaps it's not clear. The 19 production process that was used is similar 20 to what we are talking about here with some 21 modifications, I assume. That process worked 22 fine. The ductwork that was produced, mass 23 produced, worked fine. The samples that I 24 saw in my laboratory that were received from 180 1 49. 2 A. Okay. I am. 3 Q. And that simply says, does it 4 not, that for heat sealing just run the heat 5 sealing tool over the entire taped surface, 6 making sure that the heat seal application is 7 uniform and thorough. This will activate the 8 tape to vulcanize the aluminum jacket; is 9 that correct? 10 A. Yes, we have talked about that 11 before. 12 Q. Did you ever see a demonstration 13 of that? 14 A. No, I did not. 15 Q. Did you ever see the heat 16 sealing tool that they used in 1965,1966, 17 and 1967? 18 A. No, sir. 19 Q. Do you know if the heat sealing 20 tool has changed from 1965 through '67 to 21 present day? 22 A. No, I don't. 23 Q. Do you know or did you ask 24 Gustin-Bacon how hot does that iron get, that . { ! 1 i j 179 1 the Transportation & Safety Building were 2 just fine. They were flexible. Why would I 3 assume that we have lost massive amounts of 4 PCB? 5 Q. Did you ever ask them have you 6 had problems with the aluminum foil coming 7 unglued from the adhesive? Did you ever ask 8 them whether they had had that problem in 9 '65,'66, and'67? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Now, when you talked about heat 12 sealing you talked about getting certain 13 documents to help explain to you what heat 14 sealing process was, as far as Gustin-Bacon 15 was concerned; correct? 16 A. By heat sealing you are 17 referring to the use of the iron or the tape? 18 Q. Correct. 19 A. Yes, we had duct cartoons and 20 other literature that were available to 21 explain to people how to use it. 22 Q. Well, which one did you use to 23 come to your opinion about how heat sealing 24 was done? Why don't you take a look at DCT 18 1 1 heat sealing iron? 2 A. No, I didn't. There was 3 information, I believe, in Mr. Kominsky's 4 report that said it was up to 350 degrees or 5 thereabouts. I forget the exact number. 6 Q. And so other than what Mr. 7 Kominsky has testified to, you didn't have 8 any independent knowledge of how hot it got. 9 A. No, I don't think so. 10 Q. Did you ever ask them how long 11 you run that heat sealing iron over this 12 tape? 13 A. I did and it was described much 14 as I described it to you, that it was run 15 across like you were ironing a shirt or 16 something. They did not identify a time 17 period or how long according to some 18 specification you had to hold it there. 19 Q. You testified in your testimony 20 here today that other than this, I'm saying 21 this, these documents, and a conversation 22 about the adhesive, you didn't speak to 23 anybody from CertainTeed? 24 A. No, sir. No. What I meant, I'm ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060809 182 1 sorry if I misspoke, but I asked the question 2 of Ms. Herschel, who passed that question on 3 to her people who had some historical 4 knowledge. Recognize that this is 35 years 5 ago. They had to find somebody with 6 experience on this particular product and 7 that's the feedback that I got, that it is 8 run pretty much like an iron would be run 9 evenly down a piece of tape. 10 Q. Do you know for how long they 11 run that iron over a section of the tape? 12 A. No, I would have to speculate if 13 I was going to use it for any computation. 14 Q. Do you know how much pressure 15 had to be used in which, by pressure I mean 16 they put the heat sealing iron and they hold 17 it there for a while and then push and hold 18 it there for a while. Do you know how much 19 pressure was used? 20 A. No, apparently pressure isn't 21 important. If pressure were important -- if 22 the amount of time were important, I mean as 23 an engineer that's what specifications are. 24 You tell somebody hold the iron for five 184 1 isn't that correct? It's not an instruction 2 manual? 3 A. It is in a sense because if the 4 manufacturer says it is this easy to do, then 5 that's the instruction manual they are going 6 to create rather than give you a phone book 7 size document to read just to put tape on a 8 piece of ductwork. 9 Q. So it is not important in your 10 opinion for the person doing the fabrication 11 to know anything more than running an iron 12 over a tape, run it along, and then keep 13 going on? 14 A. Thoroughly and uniformly. It is 15 a common sense type of direction and 16 instruction. I believe that as we discussed 17 when we talked about ironing patches and 18 lettering on my daughter's Indian princess 19 vest, it is that easy. It is not 20 complicated. And there's no need to make it 21 anymore complicated than this. 22 Q. So what you are saying is that 23 this doesn't require any skilled labor; it is 24 anybody who irons patches on to an Indian 183 185 1 seconds with ten pounds of pressure or 1 princess uniform or anything else can do it? 2 something very specific. The fact that they 2 A. In so many words. If it were 3 made it so easy indicates that it's not that 3 that complicated there would be certified 4 critical and it is probably faster. If it 4 tape applicators and people of that nature. 5 doesn't require you to sit on the iron or 5 I think this is way over blown. It is that 6 stand on it; simply hold it there and make 6 simple. 7 sure that the tape is applied uniformly and 7 Q. Isn't it important to make sure 8 that the adhesive melts. 8 that that heat sealing tape does adhere well 9 Q. That's speculation on your part 9 in order to keep the integrity of that duct 10 because you didn't talk to anybody; correct? 10 together? Isn't that important? 11 A. Well, it is speculation but it 11 A. The staples are doing the heavy 12 is also coupled with my 20 or 30 years of 12 lifting as we would say. That's the 13 experience as an engineer. This is a 13 structural connection and the tape is simply 14 specification. In the world that I work in 14 a seal. J 15 if it is that general it typically means that 16 it is that easy. 15 Q. So as far as you're concerned, 16 from what you can tell from this, these 17 Q. This cartoon that you referred 17 cartoons, the only thing, the only purpose of 18 to is a specification? 18 that tape is just to seal, and it doesn't 19 A I mean, it is an instruction 19 make any difference whether someone is 20 manual like you get with your VCR or 20 instructed properly in how to do it or not; 21 something like that which oftentimes is going 21 it should be just common sense. 22 to be more complicated than using an iron on 22 A. You, yourself, were pointing out 23 a piece of tape. 23 before how it is important the staple was to 24 Q. This is a brochure of some sort; 24 hold this duct together. That is what is ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOO6O810 186 1 doing the structural work. The tape is a 2 ceiling tape. It is designed to seal the 3 ductwork and make sure that it is essentially 4 airtight. 5 Q. So anybody off the street could 6 come and do that? 7 A. Absolutely. You are right. It 8 is common sense. My daughter could do that. 9 Q. How difficult would it have been 10 for you to ask for a demonstration on 11 fabricating ductwork including the heat 12 sealing process? 13 A. I suspect it would have been 14 pretty easy. 15 Q. So that if you wanted to you 16 could say, Hey. Look. I looked at the 17 cartoons and I think I can do it, but I would 18 like to see exactly how it is done. You 19 could have done that? 20 A. I could have done that, 21 certainly. 22 Q. But instead you just got maybe 23 ten or 12 documents and said on the basis of 24 that I know how it is done. I know how it is 188 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Who was it described to you by? 3 A. I can't recall. I can't recall. 4 Q. And how simple would it have 5 been for you to perform some kind of test in 6 which while this heat sealing process is 7 going on to measure whether there is any PCB 8 loss? 9 A. It would have been a pretty 10 complicated test as evidenced by the fact 11 that Mr. Ewing had trouble doing it. 12 Q. Well 13 A. And there's no standard approach 14 to doing this, so you would have to develop a 15 special protocol and make sure that 16 scientists had reviewed it and made sure that 17 it was acceptable. 18 Q. You, as a scientist, you would 19 like the best information possible; is that 20 correct? 21 A. Yes, that's true. 22 Q. And the best information 23 possible would have been to have a test, no 24 matter how complicated it was, performed; 187 1 fabricated. 2 A. Within certain reasonable 3 boundaries as an engineer. I was trained, if 4 you recall, as an industrial engineer and 5 what I used to be trained to do was to figure 6 out more efficient ways to make things. 7 Basically design, manufacturing and 8 installation processes like this. If it was 9 going to take somebody a minute of holding 10 that iron still, this iron that is so big or 11 thereabouts, on that tape until it is heat 12 sealed, then somebody at Gustin-Bacon is 13 going to probably lose their job because 14 nobody is going to buy that process. They 15 would have to have a bigger iron or do 16 something to make it faster. It makes 17 absolutely no sense that it takes more than a 18 few seconds. 19 Q. How big is the iron? 20 A. I don't recall. It is a couple 21 inches maybe. I have had it described to me. 22 I have not seen it, as I just said. 23 Q. So, again, it was just something 24 that was described to you; is that correct? 189 1 correct? That would be the best evidence of 2 whether there's a loss during the heat 3 sealing process. 4 A. If I thought it was justified I 5 certainly would have asked for it. You make 6 a good point. The fact is that if you take 7 the science that has already been done, if 8 you take vaporization rates, which have 9 already been developed in the laboratory, 10 published in the journals, and books and so 11 forth we have been alluding to here, you take 12 a worst case situation where you assume that 13 that adhesive is all PCB and you apply what 14 you have been talking about here and the 15 amount of ductwork, the amount of tape we are 16 talking about, you end up vaporizing in this 17 extreme worst case maybe 100th of an ounce of 18 PCB, which is no where -- it is no where near 19 accounting for the amount of PCB that 20 actually showed up in this budding after the 21 fire. It makes absolutely no sense to do a 22 test if your worst case scenario as 23 calculated doesn't get you anywhere near 24 where the facts are telling us we need to go. i ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOO6O811 190 192 1 Q. Did you do that calculation to 1 of the building after the fire. It already 2 find out how much PCBs would have been lost? 2 had smoke and soot deposits on it who knows 3 A. Oh, yes. Absolutely. 3 what else that might have already been ready m 4 Q. And you determined that -- what 4 to be mobilized in his test. 5 did you say; 100th of an ounce? 5 Q. You could have just as easily 6 A. Yes, I think that's the way the 6 done a test like that to verify Mr. Ewing's 7 calculation worked out. The number gets big 7 results, could you not? You could have done 8 as we talked about. 16 miles is - 8 it? 9 Q. After heating it up? 9 A. I could have, but as I just 10 A. Yes. 10 pointed out, given the math and given the 11 Q. You heated it up? Did you heat 11 science that is behind what I just did as a 12 the ductboard up? 12 calculation there's no point. It makes no 13 A. No, let me back-up just so you 13 sense to spend the money and time to do a 14 are clear on this. I assumed a certain very 14 test to try and show something that is 15 large length of ductwork in this building. 15 inconsequential. The amount of PCBs coming 16 16 miles or whatever. Two inch piece of tape 16 off this heat sealing process is almost zero. 5 17 and worked out the amount of surface area 17 Q. Mr. Woodyard, as a scientist the 18 that would have been contacted by that iron. 18 best evidence of that, not sitting down and 19 I assumed a five second contact time with the 19 calculating numbers and saying so many miles 20 iron at 250 degrees as Mr. Kominsky posited 20 and this and that, the best evidence would be 21 in his report. Then I went and computed how 21 to perform a test to verify any results you 22 much, based on pure PCB, not locked in the 22 got, isn't that correct, as a scientist? 23 glue but pure PCB how much would actually be 23 A. No, only if you are talking 24 vaporized in that time period and it came out 24 basic science. If somebody spent the time 191 193 1 to some -- it was a 100th of an ounce. We 1 and money to compute vaporization rates and 2 are talking about the equivalent of about a 2 we have been talking about this, that's great 3 drop of PCB for that whole building. 3 data. Let's use that data to the extent that 4 You were re asking me before, 4 we can. Creating or fabricating a chamber or m 5 this is coming back around, you asked me 5 some other type of test to do this sort of 6 before why I, perhaps, I'm being a little 6 thing makes no sense at all for the reasons I 7 cavalier about the amount of contact time. 7 just said. We got much better data from much 8 The answer is for that entire building if I 8 more reputable organizations. National 9 held that iron in place for 30 seconds, we 9 Institute for Standards and Technology. ) 10 are multiplying this one drop by six, so now 10 People like that at the federal government 11 we have six drops of PCB being emitted in 11 and universities who have done these tests 12 this entire building. This isn't in glue; 12 already. They have given you all the data 13 this is pure PCB, assuming that there's no 13 you need. 14 glue there. Why would I want to do a test? 14 Q. Have they done tests, you keep j 15 Because I have already computed, based on 16 good science, the worst case scenario. 15 saying that, have they done tests on the 16 release of PCBs from adhesives? 17 Q. Well, the worst case scenario, 17 A. No, they have done tests on PCBs 18 you saw Mr. Ewing's test, did you not? 18 all by themselves, which are more likely to 19 A. I saw the results of that, yes. 19 release than they would from an adhesive. 20 Q. And you saw when Mr. Ewing put 20 Q. And they find out that PCBs do 21 it in a small chamber test and heated up the 21 volatilize, do they not? 22 ductwork that PCBs volatilized, did you not? 22 A. At extremely, extremely low 23 A. Yes, but Mr. Ewing, among other 23 levels. 24 things, used ductwork that had been taken out 24 Q. Let's get into that. We have ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60812 194 1 PCBs in the environment, do we not? 2 A. That's correct. Again, at 3 extremely low levels. 4 Q. And we have PCBs that volatilize 5 from soil and sediment; isn't that correct? 6 A. There is evidence of that. 7 Again, extremely low levels. 8 Q. The fact of the matter is that 9 they volatilize, do they not? 10 A. Some PCBs do. Not the material 11 that we are talking about in this case. 12 Q. You have PCBs in sediment, in 13 bodies of water, do you not? 14 A. Yes, but that's apples and 15 oranges. We are talking about - 16 Q. We have - 17 A. Let me finish my answer first. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. We are talking about apples and 20 oranges here. PCBs that might have been 21 released decades ago into the environment 22 have nothing to do with PCBs that are locked 23 into a glue. 24 Q. We have, do we not, PCBs in 196 1 refer to reference books or literature in 2 order to learn more about a subject; is that 3 correct? 4 A. Yes, sir. 5 Q. And let me show you, in 6 Mr. Erickson's book he has a diagram, does he 7 not? Dr. Erickson has a diagram in his book, 8 does he not? 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 THE COURT: Is there one more? 11 MR. NEAL: I'm sorry, Your 12 Honor. I'm going to let Mr. McClain do it. 13 BY MR. NEAL: 14 Q. Dr. Erickson, in his book, has a 15 diagram, does he not, on pathways for the 16 cycling and transport of PCBs in the 17 environment? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And he indicates, does he not, 20 with PCBs being down in the sediment; is that 21 correct? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And then he gets up where he 24 follows its path from the sediment up to the # d 4 s 195 1 sediment, in bodies of water, do we not? 2 A. Yes, but it didn't necessarily 3 get there by vaporization, as you 4 characterized it. There are a lot of ways it 5 could. 6 Q. But to get out of that sediment 7 and to be deposited on foliage, tree foliage, 8 that occurs through a process of 9 volatilization, does it not? 10 A. It typically, based on the 11 literature that I have seen, would occur 12 because particles of aerosols or PCB would 13 attach to dust, would attach to other 14 particles that are already flying through the 15 area and that would carry it. PCBs, 16 regardless of the Aroclor, would much rather 17 be in a liquid or solid form. 18 Q. You are familiar, are you not, 19 with Mr. Erickson's book? 20 A. Yes, I am, sir. 21 Q. It is the "Analytical Chemistry 22 of PCBs"? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And you, as a scientist, would . 197 1 surface; is that correct? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And he talks about when it gets 4 to the surface evaporation taking place, does 5 he not? 6 A. Yes, he does use the word 7 evaporation. That's true. 8 Q. And as a matter of fact, that's 9 the principal form of transport and 10 deposition from either soil or from sediment 11 on to the foliage; is that correct? 12 Evaporation. 13 A To put this in context, we will 14 call this a cartoon for a movement. It is 15 just an attempt to show you how this process 16 works. The vaporization rate of PCBs is 17 millions of times slower than it is for 18 water. That's not what is on this diagram. 19 I realize it is difficult to show this on 20 this diagram, but if it took me a day to let 21 this cup of water evaporate, it would take a 22 million days for the same cup full of PCBs to 23 evaporate. That's accurate to the extent 24 that it shows what those few molecules are 4 ;i 4 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOO6O813 198 200 1 going to do when they evaporate and where 1 particular one. 2 they are going to go; it does not give you 2 Q. Which article have you looked 3 any sense at all for how slowly the process 3 at? 4 is really working. Some of the information 4 A. Which article? 5 that is underneath that diagram talks about 5 Q. Which articles? 6 incredibly low units of emission. The number 6 A. I don't recall all of them. I 7 is well below the numbers that we are talking 7 have seen a number of these in the course of 8 about in this case. 8 my work. 9 Q. This process taking place has a 9 Q. Why don't you just give us one. 10 lot of PCBs all over the place; correct? In 10 MR. GOUTMAN: Could you ask a 11 the environment. 11 question, Mr. Neal? 12 A. True, but I certainly wouldn't 12 BY MR. NEAL: 13 attribute them to volatilization as I think 13 Q. Which articles are you referring 14 you have attempted to do. 14 to about the vapor phase transport from soil 15 Q. Well, do you agree that the PCB 15 to foliage? 16 levels found on foliage result from vapor 16 A. I cant remember the article 17 phase transport from the polluted, for 17 offhand. I think it may have been a citation 18 instance, soil? Do you agree with that? 18 that I saw in a different book. 19 A. I would -- no, not as you have 19 Q. Which book? 20 characterized it. What I would say is that 20 A. Probably would have been the m 21 PCBs can vaporize from a water body like that 21 World Health Organization book on PCBs. 22 at extremely low levels, attach themselves to 22 Q. Do you have that here? 23 particles, the particles get on the leaves 23 A. No, I don't. 24 and, sine, PCBs could end up on the trees in 24 Q. When you came here did you do 199 1 that fashion. 2 Q. Let's switch for a moment to 3 soil. Do you agree that the PCB levels found 4 on foliage result from vapor phase transport 5 from the polluted soil and not contamination 6 from soil parts? 7 MR. GOUTMAN: Page, please. 8 THE COURT: May I ask where 9 you are reading? 10 MR. NEAL: Page 47, Your 11 Honor. If you look at page 47. 12 THE COURT: Of this exhibit? 13 THE WITNESS: I have no basis 14 to agree or disagree. I would need to 15 look at the article because it will talk 16 about what levels we are talking about. 17 It just talks about the PCB levels which 18 could be infinitesimal. It could be a 19 million times lower than what we 20 experienced n the Transportation & Safety 21 Building. 22 BY MR. NEAL: 23 Q. Have you looked at the articles? 24 A. I have looked at some. Not that 201 1 any kind of or in making your report did you 2 do any kind of research into the literature 3 on the volatilization of PCBs, whether it be 4 from soil, spills, adhesive; anything? 5 A. Yes, I looked at what the 6 evaporation rates and vapor pressures were 7 for different types of PCB. 8 Q. You looked at the evaporation 9 rates. Did you look at any kind of article 10 that dealt with research on the ability of 11 PCBs to volatilize, whether it be from 12 solids, liquids or whatever? 13 A. No, I wouldn't need to. We are 14 talking basic physics and chemistry. 15 Q. What basic physics are we 16 talking about? 17 First of all, what book would 18 you refer to for basic physics? 19 A. A basic physics book. A 20 textbook from college or high school even. 21 Q. When was the last time you 22 looked at that? 23 A. It has been a while. 24 Q. When was the last time you ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60814 202 1 looked at a textbook in regard to any 2 research on PCBs? 3 A. It has been a long time. I 4 don't look at high school and college 5 textbooks to do PCB research. 6 Q. And when you rendered your 7 opinion and report in this matter, did you 8 look at any literature, textbooks, anything. 9 or did you just sit down and write your 10 report? 11 A. No, of course I looked at 12 Mr. Erickson's book I looked at a number of 13 other papers. Just looking for information 14 on what is available in the way of PCB vapor 15 pressures, evaporation rates, and things like 16 that because it was important to this case. 17 Q. You were talking about PCB 18 evaporation rates. Vapor pressure. Anything 19 else? I'm talking about research where they 20 have done actual research and taken, say, a 21 building material to see whether it off 22 gasses. Did you ever look at any articles 23 dealing with that? 24 A. I looked for some articles 204 1 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, the 2 reason I just, for scheduling purposes, it 3 is our present intention now to file a 4 motion with the Court by mid day Monday 5 concerning the jury issue that we 6 mentioned. We would anticipate the 7 opportunity to argue on Tuesday. 8 THE COURT: Was that a motion 9 for mistrial? 10 MR. GOUTMAN: Yes, and we 11 would anticipate the opportunity to, if 12 The Court would entertain it, for argument 13 if The Court thinks it is necessary. A 14 good time for that, just looking forward, 15 might be Tuesday afternoon. If that's the 16 case, we can tell the jury not to come 17 back until Wednesday morning instead. 18 MR. MCCLAIN: Did I hear the 19 schedule right? You are going to file it 20 on Monday? 21 MR. GOUTMAN: Yes. 22 MR. MCCLAIN: We won't be 23 able to respond to it if we are going to 24 respond and argue in that fashion, so 4 i j 203 1 during the course of my work on that subject 2 and found very few that I considered to be 3 authoritative, if any. 4 Q. Did you consider any of them? 5 A. Certainly. I reviewed them and 6 looked at the information to see whether I 7 think it is relevant. 8 Q. Which article do you consider 9 authoritative on the volatilization of PCBs 10 from a building product? 11 A. I can't think of one offhand. 12 MR. NEAL: Your Honor, this 13 would be a perfect time for the break. 14 THE COURT: I think it is more 15 than a break. I think we are going to 16 adjourn. 17 MR. NEAL: Break for a number 18 of days, Your Honor. 19 THE COURT: We are going to 20 adjourn until Tuesday at one o'clock. 21 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 22 could we see The Court at side bar. 23 THE COURT: Fine. 24 (Side bar discussion) 205 1 there's no reason to put the trial on 2 hold. Our preliminary research shows it 3 is discretionary with the Court. I would 4 prefer that we just keep rolling. 5 THE COURT: Offhand, my 6 information is that it is discretionary. 7 but I'm not ruling at this point. I don't 8 want to preclude anyone, as I have not 9 precluded counsel from briefing or to have 10 other counsel respond by their brief, but 11 I don't know how you would have a brief by 12 Tuesday. 13 MR. GOUTMAN: Okay. Then we 14 will be prepared to proceed Tuesday. 15 THE COURT: I don't think we 16 can argue it on Tuesday based upon the 17 needs of counsel to do independent 18 research and prepare a brief. 19 MR. GOUTMAN: Fine. 20 THE COURT: Later in the week 21 we would do it. 22 MR. MC CLAIN: We will have 23 time. 24 MR. GOUTMAN: Okay. Fine. I ;] ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOO6O815 206 1 just wanted to bring the matter up so we 2 could get our signals straight. 3 MR. HENDERSON: Can we make it 4 1:30 on Tuesday? 5 THE COURT: 1:30 it is. 6 (Witness excused.) 7 (Court concluded 8 at 4:15 p.m.) 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 LAWYER'S NOTES 2 PAGE LINE 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 208 1 --2 CERTIFICATE 207 3 4 I hereby certify that the witness 5 was duly sworn by me and that the deposition 6 is a true record of the testimony given by 7 the witness. 8 9 10 11 12 s 13 John W. Begley, RPR 14 Dated: March 6, 2000 15 16 17 (The foregoing certification of this 18 transcript does not apply to any reproduction 19 of the same by any means, unless under the 20 Direct control and/or supervision of the 21 certifying shorthand report.) 22 23 24 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOO6O8I6 209 A abbreviation 113:15 abide 23:11 ability 30:9 119:7 121:23 201:10 able 17:10 20:1 56:18 70:11 146:24 147:3 161:7 162:9 204:23 about 7:2 8:7 11:8 15:21 18:2 24:17 25:24 29:6 38:3 44:5 46:18 48:20 50:7 52:8 56:7 56:13,18 57:17 58:17 60:8 66:7 69:7 69:9 70:14 73:16 74:3 76:6 80:2 86:2 86:6 89:12,14 92:16,20 93:13,20,23 94:1049 95:24 96:10 96:13,15 98:2 98:14 99:4,19 100:3 101:5 103:17,18,19 103:23 104:12 104:18 105:24 106:23 107:1 108:4,13 110:24 111:21 112:5,8 113:9 113:15,24 116:3 117:24 118:3,7,9 120:12,24 121:4,15 122:24 124:9 124:13 125:6 127:23 128:9 129:4 132:15 133:10,13,16 133:17,22 134:23 138:2 138:3 140:6 142:13 144:9 152:9 153:16 154:17,18 155:5,8,24 157:8,20 159:21,23 161:15,16,18 165:6,8,24 167:5 168:19 170:1,10,21 172:5 176:8 178:3,20 179:11,12,23 180:10 181:22 184:17 189:14 189:16 190:8 155:16 159:5 191:2,2,7 162:20 165:18 193:2 194:11 166:21189:20 194:15,19 190:23 196:2 197:3 added 151:20 198:5,8 152:3 154:24 199:16,16,17 additional 8:8 200:14 201:16 69:24 156:8 202:17,19 additionally above 77:6 83:5 84:14 123:15 125:19 130:16 128:7 146:20 adhere 154:24 147:7,20,23 175:7 185:8 148:12,20 adhered 22:9 149:8,10 173:18 164:23 165:24 adhering above-captioned 162:18 173:21 1:13 adhesive abrupt 11:21 108:13 129:12 12:8,14,21,22 142:5,11,11 13:5 144:13 145:23 absolutely 151:6,13,16 22:24 43:2 152:1,23 104:21,22 153:19 154:19 109:12,12 154:24 155:9 127:5 129:16 156:23 160:11 186:7 187:17 160:19 161:7 189:21 190:3 161:19 162:2 absorb 119:7 162:18,19,24 120:9,11,14 163:24 164:8 121:23 165:1,8,9 accept 94:1 166:13 167:1 acceptable 167:20 170:2 122:21 123:6 170:16,22 123:19 124:2 171:9,12,12 127:15 188:17 171:16 172:3 acceptance 172:4,6,8 125:12 173:5,11,14 accepted 67:21 173:16,23 68:5 71:3 174:2,6,10 accepts 68:9 175:13,16,22 access 102:8 175:24 176:20 accident 152:19 177:11,18,22 according 83:3 178:17 179:7 96:2 108:1 181:22 183:8 181:17 189:13 193:19 accounting 201:4 189:19 adhesives accurate 17:15 193:16 197:23 adhesive/mastic accurately 141:3 122:22 adjoining accuse 33:13 107:12 accuses 32:18 adjourn 203:16 across 181:15 203:20 acting 171:12 Admitted 49:10 action 93:10 84:7 85:23 117:11118:15 adopted 22:8 activate 180:7 28:22 active 25:19 ADVANCE 1:9 actual 49:2 advice 112:11 120:16 202:20 aef-6 172:8 actually 21:21 aerosols 195:12 22:9 39:16 aerospace 1:7 42:10,11 2:24 53:10 78:11 affected 170:17 91:2 100:11 afield 133:12 111:3 125:17 after 17:8 149:4,20 19:22 34:20 78:2,12,22,24 79:7,12,18 80:21 81:12 96:4 99:16,18 104:19 167:17 171:18,18,19 173:5,7 174:7 189:20 190:9 192:1 afternoon 92:2 92:3,4,10,13 137:18,20,23 137:24 204:15 again 12:20 15:5 18:2 27:15 49:23 52:3 67:15 82:2 102:15 117:18 119:15 133:6,7 138:12 143:10 143:19 144:2 148:9 150:9 164:14,20 167:21170:23 173:19 175:6 187:23 194:2 194:7 against 35:4 agencies 125:12 AGENCY 1:4 ages 119:5 121:22 ago 10:1 16:15 58:13 124:7 182:5 194:21 agree 27:1,17 28:2 89:18 138:5,19 198:15,18 199:3,14 agreement 9:20 140:20 145:21 ahead 116:10 155:18 air 20:4 85:18 86:2,6,7,7,11 86:14,21,24 87:3,6,20 88:1 89:1,9 92:20 92:22 95:6,9 95:17 96:16 99:14,20,23 99:23 100:4,4 100:6,9,13,16 100:17,18,23 101:16,17 110:12,19 111:1175:12 176:1,4,5 186:4 airborne 115:3 116:13 allegation 150:2,7 allow 19:7 171:4 allowed 132:16 allowing 119:3 120:5 alluding 189:11 aUuminum 159:13 almost 26:5 45:23 55:24 77:10 79:5 192:16 along 107:7 110:7,19 137:5 159:24 160:3 184:12 already 27:18 28:8,12,14 31:14 57:7 100:5 110:6 148:21178:11 189:7,9 191:15 192:1 192:3 193:12 195:14 although 7:17 36:3 51:23 aluminum 155:8 156:24 159:20 160:4 160:6,11,20 160:22 161:10 162:1,7 163:5 163:15 164:8 165:18 167:2 167:19 173:7 173:20 174:7 174:10 175:8 177:12,18,22 179:6 180:8 always 25:22 87:3 89:1 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176:11 apologize 32:9 58:13 59:22 70:23 116:4 125:7 apparently 63:7 182:20 APPEARANC... 2:1 appears 21:13 175:12 apples 194:14 194:19 application 180:6 1 4 ii ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOO6O817 210 applicators asbestos 38:18 attribute ban 11:2112:8 Begley 1:18 33:19 89:19 185:4 39:8,24 42:12 198:13 12:15,21,22 92:23 207:13 96:5 161:13 applied 23:24 42:18,22 43:5 attributes 13:5 behalf 25:15 black 11:3,6,9 27:4 161:17 43:7,11 49:3 118:24 119:19 banned 14:3 behavior 13:2,4,13 183:7 62:3 audience 114:1 bar 16:7,9 134:21 blank 84:15,20 applies 27:8 aside 31:17 126:8 26:17 29:21 behind 192:11 blanks 64:16 apply 119:15 106:23 audited 64:7 32:1 33:10 behoove 35:8 85:5 189:13 207:18 asked 6:19 authoritative 34:1,21 35:18 being 1:20 24:2 blends 170:16 appreciate 8:10 28:15 30:22 26:22 27:24 58:4,10 130:7 29:13 47:14 blew 50:17 approach 26:14 32:1,11 33:24 203:3,9 130:9 203:22 56:3 82:22 blocks 126:16 32:1 33:24 33:24 34:5 available 17:9 203:24 86:22 87:8 126:16 188:13 47:7 58:24 19:23 50:19 based 16:1 31:8 98:9,17 99:13 blown 49:13 approaching 59:2 61:15 50:21 53:6,12 80:13 96:10 99:22 111:19 185:5 33:14 63:2 66:3 63:8 64:24 103:22,22 125:5 134:17 blow-up 53:5 appropriate 67:12 92:17 66:1 67:3,13 132:15 143:3 136:6 158:23 124:18 24:15,20 99:1104:4 80:11,14 150:17,17 166:5,9,10 blue 11:8 26:23 29:18 143:2,9 170:6 179:20 202:14 177:4 190:22 174:2,6 191:6 board 6:4 110:8 32:16 91:14 182:1189:5 average 23:2 191:15 195:10 191:11196:20 171:21173:17 appropriately 191:5 78:9 79:4,8 205:16 belief 23:22 boards 14:7 36:18 asking 24:17 80:3,4,18 basement 79:18 believe 9:19 bodies 194:13 approximately 57:8,20 averages 78:7 79:23 11:14 31:20 195:1 96:8 120:18 130:17 averaging basic 126:23 32:10 33:21 body 198:21 area 27:19 130:24 131:1 80:23 192:24 201:14 36:13 38:22 bond 171:4,6 37:17 38:2,3 131:13 133:9 aware 45:10 201:15,18,19 40:24 45:12 171:13 173:8 107:8 133:24 191:4 62:1,5,13,17 basically 120:4 46:20 49:1 177:17,21 J 134:4 135:15 aspect 140:7 161:16 190:17 assessment 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164:13,15 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOO6O818 2 11 165:1,11,17 166:2,6,9,17 167:1 Broad 2:20 broader 31:6 brochure 183:24 broke 15:19,23 92:15 brought 6:5 99:20 Brown 69:8 bubbled 162:10 bubbles 176:5,5 buckling 163:15 budget 19:7,9 building 21:20 22:10,24 23:4 23:18 51:10 51:18 52:10 52:12 56:21 60:9 62:2 72:19 76:1,3 79:24 87:23 88:2 89:9 98:7 98:17,21 99:13 100:9 100:15,22 101:15 103:23 105:3,7,14 107:20,23 111:11 112:20 113:12 117:22 119:10,16 128:2 129:12 129:22 135:22 139:5,14 140:8,17 141:3,10 142:2 143:6,8 144:18 145:2 146:5,20 148:6 152:17 162:16 164:19 165:10 167:10 179:1 189:20 190:15 191:3 191:8,12 192:1 199:21 202:21 203:10 buddings 20:17 25:9,20 110:15 119:17 bulk 38:5 43:13 62:3 bunch 169:3 burned 143:8 145:5 burning 141:11 burnt 139:18 business 68:19 100:1 buy 11:5 187:14 buyer 122:21 123:2,7,19 124:2 127:16 buyers 124:5,8 by-products 25:24 C C 53:5,8,16 137:10 207:2 207:2 calculated 189:23 calculating 192:19 calculation 190:1,7 192:12 cad 8:1 20:11 30:4 47:10,18 47:22 50:2 142:11178:6 197:14 caded 8:3 30:20 45:3,5,9 47:6 109:15 126:14 158:10 169:19 170:13 171:10 calls 35:17 51:14 75:14 came 39:19,20 40:17 47:7,10 49:1,2 50:7,13 51:6,9,16 52:9 52:11 70:2 74:21 77:23 97:4 104:10 105:5,6 129:11 139:5 139:16 141:10 142:22 143:6 143:7 144:13 144:16 145:23 145:24 150:3 150:7 190:24 200:24 cap 126:6,14 capable 102:4 capillary 117:11118:15 Capitol 3:14 capping 124:23 125:20 126:5 127:3 care 125:4 careful 67:1 68:8,12 carried 70:24 carry 195:15 carton 171:19 174:8 cartons 173:7 cartoon 171:20 183:17 197:14 cartoons 179:19 185:17 186:17 case 10:13 26:8 26:24 27:15 27:15 28:1 43:9 44:2 58:19 60:3 73:17 74:16 102:1,18 81:2 86:3,17 104:13 108:24 87:1,16,18 191:21193:4 97:21101:11 chambers 126:21128:20 102:11 129:8,14 chance 73:9,11 132:19 133:8 169:16 135:19 149:2 change 88:12 149:17 151:24 105:24 167:14 152:13 165:15 changed 11:2 172:5 174:5 99:19 101:18 189:12,17,22 111:23 124:13 191:16,17 180:20 194:11 198:8 changes 11:16 202:16 204:16 88:23 cases 26:6 72:8 changing 119:6 73:15 93:6 121:22 122:9 148:1 characterized 148:22 24:2 195:4 cause 167:2 198:20 174:9 176:1 characterizing caused 26:1 14:22 89:8 35:12 130:20 charcoal 86:9 cavalier 191:7 charges 35:4 ceiling 41:8,14 Charles 1:11 41:17 146:21 9:11 147:8,20,23 chart 48:3,6,9 147:24 148:12 53:19 54:13 148:20,23 56:19 77:3 149:5,5,9,10 82:2 164:23 165:24 check 12:19 186:2 checked 21:14 ceilings 85:1 chemical 132:3 Center 2:12 134:21 centimeters chemist 132:2 20:20 21:1 chemistry certain 32:2 195:21 201:14 41:16 138:2 CHEMREX 138:23 151:21 1:8 160:1 171:9 Chicago 8:24 176:19 179:12 chief 26:24 187:2 190:14 27:16 28:1 certainly 15:14 cluldren 89:20 32:9,14 35:10 chronologicady 36:5,18,20 96:14 55:16 77:16 citation 200:17 79:9 101:23 cite 90:24 91:4 113:9 119:17 153:23 128:12 153:4 cited 82:22 164:10 165:4 125:17 165:21 167:4 citing 97:20 167:9 174:12 City 1:15 186:21 189:5 claiming 23:9 198:12 203:5 CLAIN 2:2,3 certainteed 1:7 8:19 9:4,17 4:7 146:10 10:12 12:3,5,6 155:14 156:5 13:12,16,17 156:12,13 17:5,16,21,24 170:3 178:6 18:8,13,18 181:23 19:11,13 certification 20:12 24:16 207:17 25:1,18 27:3 certified 132:10 27:1228:4,8 185:3 28:12 29:2,12 certify 207:4 29:17,23 30:8 certifying 33:1 37:1,7,12 207:21 37:15 38:21 chamber 39:1,5,7 44:14 101:12,20 45:18,24 46:3 46:9 48:8 49:8 49:11,19 51:20 52:6 53:3,10,16,19 53:23 56:12 56:23 57:11 58:5,24 59:16 60:1,19,22 61:11,16,19 61:21 65:20 66:14,24 68:1 68:4 69:18,20 70:22 71:1,5 74:6,11 75:16 75:22 77:17 78:16,19 81:23 82:3,8 83:10,18,21 84:2,9,13 85:24 88:18 88:22,24 91:1 91:5,16 92:7 92:14 97:3 99:1,11 106:14,17 109:20,22 111:5,9 112:13,14 115:16 116:6 116:9,17,21 117:2 118:6 118:14 122:13 122:15 124:22 125:4,8 130:24 131:6 131:13,21 132:2,12 133:15 134:7 135:7,11,20 136:10,15,19 137:8 204:18 204:22 205:22 clarification 46:1139:12 142:17 clarify 45:18 clean 89:21,23 114:22 124:11 cleaned 123:5 cleaning 129:2 clean-up 15:22 16:2,3 22:7 112:5,24 118:19 123:12 124:7,9,15 132:11 133:10 139:23 clear 32:10 53:4 58:18 73:13 74:18 75:9 86:5 94:10,16 98:2 136:20 162:24 178:1,18 190:14 clearer 90:11 90:11 client 32:15 33:20 36:7,17 close 37:9 91:13 100:15 126:10 126:13 closed 127:8 closely 90:5 coat 123:22 coating 122:20 123:18 125:21 126:20 127:15 127:18 128:4 128:7 coatings 125:9 125:11 128:1 128:15 Cocciardi 60:8 106:9 Cocciardi's 60:3,13 61:7 105:11 collapse 151:12 154:10 161:21 162:4,7 166:22 collapsed 154:8 codect 55:11 86:10,24 codected 39:9 40:1 42:2,7,14 43:4 44:17 45:2,9 56:20 56:21 62:3 64:4 84:24 codecting 87:1 codege 158:8 201:20 202:4 codoquy 34:20 combine 118:24 119:19 combustion 25:24 come 8:2 30:16 33:9 48:16 57:18 58:4 98:3 105:9,16 165:12 179:23 186:6 204:16 comes 48:9 158:24 159:7 176:11 comfort 123:2 comfortable 104:23 105:22 coming 62:22 130:16 179:6 191:5 192:15 comment 29:21 74:3 78:17 118:3 commented 60:6 commercial 110:15 COMMISSION 1:4 common 117:10 127:2 184:15 185:21 186:8 commonly > i 4 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOO6O819 212 114:8 121:11 conclusion 172:10 21:16 34:9 corrected 69:12 78:18 82:1,7 commonwealth 61:12,18 contaminant 38:23 40:4,19 correctly 57:20 83:24 84:7,12 1:1,14 9:9,10 conclusions 86:10 142:1 41:3,11,22 89:9 92:23 85:23 88:16 20:1 91:23,24 57:3 contaminants 44:13,21,24 100:12 135:6 88:21 91:12 Commonwealt... conclusively 99:22 100:3 46:12 48:14 correlate 52:17 91:17,21,24 15:22 164:12 119:4,7 120:7 50:5,9,14,20 52:18 55:1 92:3 97:2 99:9 community concrete 121:8,11,15 51:2 52:15,20 corroded 174:7 106:16 113:16 25:12 109:17 110:2 121:24 54:20 64:11 corrosion 174:4 116:1,5 117:1 compact 110:17 112:17 contaminated 71:10 74:16 174:15 118:10,12 127:11 114:3 115:4,5 84:17 78:7 79:15 costs 100:18 130:8 131:3,8 companies 116:15 117:4 contamination 80:8,17 85:3,9 counsel 9:21 131:16,19 113:18 117:9 118:17 11:23 13:7 86:13 89:11 18:3 25:15 132:4,9 135:2 company 1:7,9 118:19,21,23 14:4,13,18 94:7 95:10,18 29:16,2232:3 135:9,16 1:9 3:19 15:4 119:2,5,8,19 20:16,18,24 96:18,19 32:6,11,17 136:9,17 15:7 45:9 119:21,24 21:2 25:20 98:12 102:19 34:5,23 35:2,2 137:4,6,13,17 compare 52:22 120:9,11,14 110:13,16 104:6 105:18 36:6 60:15 138:9 143:15 72:13 75:8 120:17,20,23 111:1112:17 108:18,19 97:1 98:24 143:18 168:12 78:11 121:1,5,13,16 114:13,15,16 110:3 113:6 99:7 110:7 168:24 169:1 1 compared 121:21122:4 115:3 116:13 114:4 138:5 115:18,23 169:6,8,10,13 81:11 122:7,8,9,10 116:16 117:3 138:16,19,20 156:14 205:9 174:19 196:10 comparing 124:15 125:22 121:1,4,15 139:6,15,21 205:10,17 199:8,12 66:9 72:18 126:2,20,22 125:21139:4 140:5,9,10,13 counsel's 17:1 203:14,19,22 81:6 128:24 129:2 139:13,20,22 140:18,21 36:14 70:20 203:23 204:4 comparison 136:23 137:11 140:7,16 141:4,13 74:3 118:3 204:8,12,13 73:20 75:4 condition 141:10,24 142:2,3,6,10 count 93:19 205:3,5,15,20 80:6,19,21 148:17 149:1 144:8 152:15 142:12,16 counted 93:24 206:5,7 complete 67:6,9 150:16 152:21199:5 144:6,7,14,20 96:21 courtaulds 1:7 completely Confirm 13:3 context 94:21 144:21,23,24 counts 97:1 2:23 28:23 confuse 68:14 114:17 122:23 145:4,9,13,19 couple 99:18 courtroom 1:15 complicated confused 124:8 197:13 145:20,22 147:8 148:1 69:6 90:12,14 81:7,9,10 158:5 continually 147:4,5,9 148:22 150:24 111:22 148:2 183:22 Connecticut 128:4 148:14 149:16 173:7 187:20 Court's 19:7 184:20,21 3:16 continue 31:12 150:12 151:7 coupled 183:12 32:7 34:13 185:3 188:10 connection 36:17 151:21,23 course 6:13,17 58:22 188:24 42:8 167:17 continued 152:1,4,7,10 14:2 31:3 cover 46:17 component 185:13 22:10 23:4,17 154:5 155:7 111:23 118:19 127:7 119:9 consequently continues 33:18 155:15,22,23 156:3 158:21 CRACKEN compound 44:8 35:7 131:11 continuously 156:6,16,17 200:7 202:11 2:17 computation consider 14:24 119:5 121:21 156:20,21 203:1 create 184:6 t 80:17 182:13 35:22 57:12 contractors 157:2,13,14 courses 19:5 created 52:21 compute 193:1 93:9 128:7 158:14 158:16,24 court 1:1,14 6:1 Creating 193:4 computed 203:4,8 contrary 27:6 159:4,14,22 7:1,15,21 8:3 crier 30:4 190:21 191:15 considered 123:9 134:15 160:7,8,24 8:6,15,20 9:1 crime 6:11,22 computing 101:14 110:18 control 100:5,6 161:4,5 162:2 9:10,14,16 criminal 7:7 111:2 112:20 128:15 207:20 162:7,22 13:10,14 critical 183:4 concentration 203:2 convenient 163:7,9,12 16:10 18:11 criticized 86:21 72:9 76:24 considering 110:9 164:13 165:2 19:8 24:21 87:7 77:1 21:2 conversation 165:19 166:4 25:17 26:16 critique 65:9,13 concentrations construction 103:19 169:24 167:3,20 28:16 29:1,7,8 68:19 141:7 158:19 181:21 169:21,23 30:1,3,19 31:1 Cross 9:18 10:1 concept 126:23 consultation convicted 6:11 170:4,5,7,8,14 31:4,22 32:13 28:4,7 31:13 concern 111:13 17:8 19:22 convinced 171:2,5,7,14 32:17,19,22 31:19 32:21 112:2,3 contact 110:18 103:22 171:22 172:13 33:6 34:3,9,22 33:21 36:2,14 113:13 114:8 117:7,15 copied 21:8 172:22 173:2 34:22,24 35:1 136:7 114:10 128:9 162:13 173:17 copies 19:1 173:8,11,12 35:17 36:4,10 cubic 93:3 concerned 7:2 175:14 190:19 60:16,17 173:19,21 36:19,24 37:2 94:12,15 139:23 140:6 191:7 172:24 174:3,11,20 37:5,6 38:19 cup 197:21,22 144:19 145:16 contacted copy 6:5 11:5,5 174:22 175:8 39:4 44:9 48:7 Cure 157:18 162:22 178:3 20:22 190:18 18:4,16,21 175:14,23 49:10 51:19 curing 170:14 178:7 179:15 contacts 90:9 21:14 47:24 176:16 177:3 52:5 53:8 170:17 171:10 185:15 contained 38:5 58:23 62:7 177:8,14,18 56:16 58:7 173:5 176:18 concerning 48:16 67:11 109:17 168:5 177:23 179:15 59:5,8,18,23 curtailing 36:5 134:20 204:5 136:3 172:16 168:11 179:18 180:9 60:17 61:17 cut 159:6,7,10 concerns 33:22 172:18 corner 50:16 183:10 184:1 62:22 65:17 159:11,18,24 33:23 110:11 container 43:17 corporation 1:7 187:24 188:20 65:21 66:23 160:2,17 112:24 43:18 1:8 3:10 189:1 192:22 68:3,22 69:17 cutting 158:15 conclude 178:1 containing correct 13:2,9 194:2,5 196:3 70:21 71:3 162:20 concluded 111:12 143:8 13:2114:10 196:21197:1 72:5 74:8 cycling 196:16 206:7 contains 6:7 14:15 17:6 197:11 198:10 75:21 77:16 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060820 213 i D Defendants D 5:1137:9 1:10 damaged 167:3 defined 38:4 DANAHER definitely 97:20 3:12 degree 119:3,22 data 23:1 40:8 degrees 108:10 40:12 64:6 108:10,17 72:12 78:8 109:1 133:20 79:5,10 80:11 181:4 190:20 80:13 95:13 delaminate 103:22 104:23 166:21176:11 105:11,22 deliberate 108:14 132:15 28:21 35:23 141:15 165:14 demolition 193:3,3,7,12 119:11 database 97:16 demonstration date 8:16 50:18 180:12 186:10 50:19,21 department 1:2 53:12,12 54:8 1:3,5 15:24 143:19 16:18,22 17:2 dated 51:1 17:7 19:16,20 168:22 207:14 19:21 21:4,9 dates 53:6 22:7,14,16,21 146:7 23:3,6,14 dating 16:17 depends 88:19 daughter 186:8 90:5 122:10 daughters 90:1 deposited 142:7 daughter's 142:14 144:15 184:18 145:8 195:7 day 88:20 deposition 1:21 92:20 148:8,8 69:7 157:4 148:9 153:7 167:5 168:2,9 158:12 180:21 197:10 207:5 197:20 204:4 deposits 117:8 days 31:9 98:17 192:2 124:6,13 depth 118:20 197:22 203:18 depths 117:10 DCT 168:5,21 derogation 168:23 169:16 32:7 169:18 170:11 describe 51:22 174:17 179:24 51:24 dealing 15:24 described 42:7 96:11,12 181:13,14 202:23 187:21,24 deals 25:13 188:2 dealt 201:10 describing debris 38:18 163:22 39:9,24 42:2 description 42:12,16 48:24 50:7 44:17 54:11 decades 194:21 descriptions decide 16:19 48:15,20 54:2 deciding 40:12 design 102:17 declared 9:10 187:7 decontamination designed 109:16 110:2 102:22 126:17 111:11 113:2 167:12 186:2 113:10 114:7 destruction 117:12119:1 162:13 119:10,21 detect 95:10 122:17 128:16 detected 83:1 128:18,24 84:15,20,21 deem 32:16 detection 89:13 deep 44:2 89:18 90:4,15 defective 90:20 92:9,16 174:13 93:2 94:6,9,11 Defendant 2:23 94:13 95:7,14 3:9,18 4:7 95:15,21 96:9 96:17 98:16 determination 166:2 determine 57:17 72:2 73:8 101:11 171:11 determined 165:1 190:4 determines 90:6 develop 35:13 111:3 188:14 developed 189:9 develops 33:3 device 86:9,9 DGS 16:22 diagram 196:6 196:7,15 197:18,20 198:5 difference 66:11,13,17 70:11 78:12 105:19 141:6 141:20 185:19 different 8:22 23:6 55:17 56:1 66:6 72:23 73:2 82:10 87:4 90:10 113:19 125:16 131:14 136:13 150:24 158:13,17,18 158:19 162:15 170:16 173:23 200:18 201:7 difficult 102:20 117:5 186:9 197:19 difficulty 102:23 digit 50:1 digits 54:12,15 55:2 dioxins 25:23 26:4 Direct 60:8 110:20 136:7 138:2,13 157:2 207:20 directed 148:3 direction 184:15 directly 46:7 156:13 disagree 27:1 27:17 28:2 138:20 199:14 disappeared 78:2 discovery 11:22 13:6 14:3 114:11 discretionary 205:3,6 discuss 38:14 170:2 discussed 81:16 138:14,15 184:16 discussion 11:7 11:13 16:4,9 26:17 30:7 58:10,13 81:19 130:9 203:24 disfigured 162:8 dismissed 106:6 disposal 119:11 126:11,12 disputing 7:1 disrupt 31:19 32:19,20 disrupted 30:16 disruption 36:23 disruptive 30:9 31:7 33:16 distance 90:12 distortion 162:14 distributing 58:15 divide 55:11 doctor 19:15 24:7 document 8:9 16:17,21 21:14 23:8 48:10,13 49:24 50:15 58:16,16,18 59:2,9,9 83:16 95:20 167:23 170:12 184:7 documentation 63:2 66:3 documents 15:21 48:24 99:6 134:10 155:13,16 156:2 157:1 159:16 160:16 167:16 169:4 169:20,24 170:9 172:18 172:20 179:13 181:21 186:23 doing 7:9 19:10 35:9 68:24 73:1,5 78:12 102:4 111:20 112:5 126:20 164:3 166:13 167:18 171:18 184:10 185:11 186:1 188:11 188:14 done 11:18 22:13 47:7 62:19 63:16 64:4 68:18 70:14 72:18 72:18,21 80:15,16,20 80:24 82:12 102:18 103:1 103:6,24 106:6 109:4,8 109:9 127:2 151:1153:18 177:7,10,15 179:24 186:18 186:19,20,24 189:7 192:6,7 193:11,14,15 193:17 202:20 dot 115:20,20 115:20 116:4 116:4,4 down 6:4 18:17 20:8 23:11 78:9 92:23 94:8 95:1 96:5 129:5 148:23 172:9 182:9 192:18 196:20 202:9 Dr 19:14 21:9 21:10,13 24:8 24:18 25:2 27:5,18,20 29:3,4 34:12 34:12 37:18 37:20 72:5 196:7,14 dramatically 96:6 dries 119:5 121:22 122:7 175:13 drive 108:17 driven 109:1 114:8 drop 161:9 191:3,10 dropping 163:15 drops 191:11 dry 117:7 drying 171:11 173:16 175:17 176:16,17 duct 107:8 136:12 154:9 155:20,21 158:11,21 166:20 179:19 185:9,24 ductboard 101:11103:17 104:13 107:6 108:7,17 129:12 131:22 132:8,11,13 132:18,23 133:1,7,8,11 133:18,23 134:14,18,19 134:24 135:4 135:24 136:3 139:18 154:18 155:6,11,12 156:23 157:5 157:8,11 163:7 173:6 174:11 175:14 177:11190:12 ductwork 85:14 107:23 108:24 109:9 129:9,18 130:2,4 131:7 141:4,11 142:5,8,12,22 144:13,14,16 145:23,24 146:21149:16 149:18,20,20 149:23 150:3 150:8,9 151:8 151:11154:12 154:15 155:1 158:3,4,13,23 161:6,8,15,17 161:20 162:14 163:4 164:4 164:17,24 165:5,10,13 166:13 167:2 171:13 173:21 175:7 178:22 184:8 186:3 186:11 189:15 190:15 191:22 191:24 due 15:8 duly 207:5 during 22:5 84:17 100:19 129:9 144:16 156:3 157:24 167:5 189:2 203:1 dust 195:13 duty 6:20 8:17 dynamic 88:7 E E 5:1137:9 207:2,2 each 30:18 35:6 35:18 54:8 115:24 173:17 earlier 16:21,24 32:8 176:3,7 earmarked 35:3 easier 54:4 124:16 149:6 easily 148:23 192:5 east 74:23 easy 102:14 108:23 164:6 165:16 183:3 183:16 184:4 184:19 186:14 ECRA 112:24 113:15 115:11 edge 7:19 8:12 9:6 10:3,7 J 1 .j J i ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60821 2 14 * 30:3 37:4,8,10 204:12 130:19 201:20 28:5,7 31:19 explained 73:9 Fahrenheit 91:17,22 entire 68:18 evenly 182:9 32:2133:16 73:11 108:11 107:16,19 97:16 129:1 event 34:4,7 33:22 36:2,14 explaining 99:3 fail 161:8 163:1 169:9 180:5 191:8 ever 6:10 22:22 134:8 explanation 176:20 178:8 edition 11:3,6,8 191:12 23:6 30:17 examine 31:13 33:8 177:19 178:13 11:9 13:3,13 entomb 126:18 37:18,24 examining 11:1 explanations failed 167:19 editions 13:24 environment 46:23,24 69:5 example 64:10 177:16 173:8 174:2 editor 11:12 14:19 15:14 81:5,11 85:10 72:12 74:20 exposed 115:7 177:21 178:1 editors 11:17 20:21112:19 89:24 103:15 87:21 89:17 exposure 20:3 178:8 effect 30:9 194:1,21 103:19 108:21 90:3,7,8,13,17 20:14 110:20 failing 174:6 113:1151:19 196:17 198:11 109:2 123:10 103:5 146:21 111:2 112:16 178:17 effectively environmental 132:7 136:2 151:2,4 113:1,4 115:1 fads 175:18 31:12 111:14 112:3 153:18 166:11 162:12 176:15 115:12 116:12 177:17 efficient 112:1 114:9 126:10 178:9,14,14 exceed 20:24 exposures failure 177:1 187:6 127:3 128:13 179:5,7 excellent 17:12 fair 76:21 eight 147:3 EPA 16:20 180:12,15 127:22 extensively 147:17 153:14 155:3 165:7 19:24 123:1,6 181:10 202:22 except 43:9 133:17 134:8 fall 154:5 155:7 170:22 123:13 125:13 every 23:3 51:9,16 63:20 extent 160:13 166:21 either 41:15 127:9 128:7 29:13 33:18 63:21 70:4 193:3 197:23 fallen 151:8 50:22 52:19 epoxy 123:24 33:23 64:19 72:14 92:18 extraction false 32:8 76:10 103:20 equipment 65:1,3 76:13 excerpts 91:6 84:18 familiar 24:9 106:11117:6 102:21110:17 79:5 108:6 136:23 extreme 189:17 25:3,4,6,22 119:4 120:6 111:12 112:7 123:11149:17 excess 97:21 extremely 101:6 102:13 127:7 197:10 158:20,20,21 166:11 excuse 32:24 14:18 93:1 134:11 146:20 elaborate equivalent everybody 33:2 38:20 152:17 193:22 195:18 f ! 121:12 191:2 ELECTRONICS era 135:4 142:18 Everybody's excused 206:6 exhibit 18:3 193:22 194:3 far 21:18 22:23 194:7 198:22 30:15 68:17 1:8 Ergo 35:15 8:13 48:11,16 49:9 eye 90:8,9,15 133:12 144:19 eliminate Erickson 196:7 Everyone 91:19 49:17 53:4 eyes 37:11,13 145:1162:21 138:23 196:14 everything 61:7 63:9 82:5 166:5,10 elsewhere Erickson's 19:12 88:9 85:19 94:18 F 179:14 185:15 105:17 195:19 196:6 121:7 149:12 109:21168:16 F 136:22 207:2 FARRINGTON EMERGENCY 202:12 evidence 14:17 169:1 199:12 fabricated 2:2 1:4 error 39:12 49:9 53:22 exhibits 136:21 155:15,18 fashion 80:23 emission 198:6 escaped 166:3 60:20 74:4 169:3 156:19,24 81:13 199:1 emitted 191:11 escorted 147:22 82:6 83:16,22 exist 28:24 157:7 158:22 204:24 emphasized especially 84:4 85:21,22 existed 71:8 158:23 187:1 faster 183:4 112:4 34:20 58:12 120:16 131:12 78:1 fabricating 187:16 employed ESQUIRE 1:21 136:21 137:1 exists 45:11 157:10 186:11 fear 34:10 37:18,21,24 2:3,4,11,19 137:12 145:4 expansion 193:4 feasible 20:15 39:15 3:2,3,4,13 4:2 152:13,14 173:15 fabrication 21:1 employee essentially 163:3 164:15 expect 154:14 158:3,11 February 13:19 112:24 113:4 90:15 126:19 166:8 189:1 experience 184:10 federal 193:10 employees 176:11186:3 192:18,20 68:23 111:20 facilities 114:13 feedback 22:5 110:19 115:6 etc 21:10 64:16 194:6 124:1127:1 117:19 182:7 170:3 95:1,23 evidenced 143:4152:12 facility 128:3 feels 32:21 encapsulation evacuated 188:10 157:4 182:6 158:12 feet 76:4,8,14 126:15 23:19 evident 155:11 183:13 facing 171:20 76:15 encountered evaluate 63:6 evidentiary experienced 173:16 fell 41:8,14,17 25:7 117:5 67:6,9 31:21 24:3 167:10 fact 13:23 15:6 few 31:9 78:14 end 65:18 evaporate Ewing 39:10,14 199:20 15:7 50:15 86:24 109:13 189:16 198:24 197:21,23 39:15,21 40:1 experiment 55:23 77:7 187:18 197:24 energy 100:17 198:1 40:16,21 41:2 101:23,24 112:8 113:24 203:2 engineer evaporation 42:2,5 102:17 176:22 127:5 130:12 fiberglass 182:23 183:13 197:4,7,12 188:11 191:20 experimenting 130:22 131:11 154:22 163:1 187:3,4 201:6,8 191:23 173:22 135:19 155:8 171:6 176:12 Engineering 202:15,18 Ewing's 41:4 expert 24:11 163:24 167:15 field 24:11 83:2 39:16 40:16 even 22:4,7 42:6 44:16 25:9,16 26:20 167:18 171:12 84:15 85:5 1 43:5 44:5 45:8 29:18 30:10 101:5 106:23 26:21 93:22 177:13 183:2 87:8 126:10 'i 151:2 33:7 42:11 191:18 192:6 97:8 132:3,10 188:10 189:6 127:3 Engineering's 50:12 63:12 exact 24:1 132:17 133:1 194:8 197:8 fifth 78:3,24 54:7 65:6 67:7,10 123:21146:7 133:9,10,24 factor 56:4 79:10,11,14 enough 56:17 68:6 70:6,8 154:6 181:5 134:13,17 79:8 135:19 fifties 113:22 67:6,9 68:13 76:22 79:17 exactly 11:16 136:5 151:3 factories fight 118:7 76:21148:24 79:22 80:11 44:12 73:24 expertise 113:21 figure 66:12 153:14 88:13 117:14 74:4,9 116:18 133:14 135:15 facts 134:19 187:5 entered 83:15 122:19 123:5 121:18 163:21 explain 9:22 189:24 figures 93:21 129:12 123:10,18,22 186:18 35:19 70:12 factual 28:22 figuring 66:10 entertain 127:8,14 examination 179:13,21 file 7:16 204:3 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60822 2 15 204:19 files 70:3 filled 7:13 film 173:21 filter 86:8 final 63:22 64:1 67:14 finally 38:18 39:6,8 122:11 financial 112:21 find 7:19 28:24 44:12 52:22 59:5 63:4,7 66:5 70:10 91:2,10 92:17 95:21113:13 113:22 178:15 182:5 190:2 193:20 fine 27:24 48:7 98:4 99:7 115:16,22 141:15 178:22 178:23 179:2 203:23 205:19 205:24 finish 31:11 65:21 134:4 194:17 finishing 128:17 fire 24:4 39:9 40:1,23 41:2 51:11,17 52:13 56:22 77:5,5 78:2,2 78:22,24 79:6 79:7,12,12,19 80:21 81:12 98:11 99:15 99:16 105:8 129:14,21 130:4,19 141:8 142:8 142:15 143:9 144:12,16 145:5,7,17 146:17 162:12 189:21 192:1 fireproofing 38:4 41:7,13 43:8,9,16,19 43:22 44:19 76:11,13,17 76:19 82:16 82:20,23 104:20 105:2 142:20 145:8 145:11146:1 149:18 fires 23:24 25:7 26:1 27:5,9 first 6:8 10:15 30:19 38:14 48:6 52:20 62:4 63:1 71:19 74:21 75:7 81:4,11 94:4 95:20 96:15 97:19 119:2,21 131:20 146:16 148:7 171:16 172:2 173:4 175:11194:17 201:17 fit 19:9 160:5 five 12:3,5,11 13:13 38:8 77:6,7,7,18 79:8 155:3 165:7 170:21 182:24 190:19 fix 125:13 fixed 87:19 fixtures 139:18 148:1 flags 85:7 flap 107:11,12 flat 155:20 Fleming 45:4,6 45:10,20,21 57:24 60:12 62:8 63:16 66:2 68:22 69:4,5 70:3 106:3 flexible 153:5 175:18 179:2 floor 1:22 3:5 23:3 51:4 52:17 72:12 74:19,21,23 75:2 76:5,8,12 76:13,24 77:5 77:6,9,10,11 78:3,5,20,22 78:23 79:6,10 79:11,14,17 79:23 81:7,7 97:5,14,18,22 98:3,5 105:9 105:12,16 106:19 114:19 148:16,18 152:10 floors 50:13 73:17 77:9 117:13 146:18 146:18,23 147:1,2,10,12 147:13,16,16 flying 195:14 focus 19:2,3 117:18 129:1 146:22 focusing 176:10 foil 154:22 155:1,8 159:20 160:11 160:20,23 161:10 162:1 163:1,4,5,15 164:8 165:18 167:2,19 171:7,13 173:7 176:2 176:11177:12 177:18,22 179:6 fold 159:6 folded 107:9 foliage 195:7,7 197:11198:16 199:4 200:15 follow 16:19 20:2 110:7 followed 22:20 159:3 following 98:11 99:15 128:17 follows 196:24 follow-up 74:12 131:15 foot 155:3 159:24 165:7 170:22 foregoing 207:17 forget 62:17 140:12,24 144:3,9,10 181:5 forklifts 114:24 form 49:20 60:10 106:13 120:9 121:12 176:2,4 195:17 197:9 formal 22:4 former 114:11 forming 158:20 forth 99:7 189:11 forties 113:21 forward 204:14 found 39:3 54:13 60:14 72:3 79:16,17 117:16 125:12 142:1,19 144:5 150:6 173:5 198:16 199:3 203:2 foundation 57:5 59:3 66:21 132:1 four 54:11,16 83:9,10 147:1 159:21 fourth 77:10 79:1 fragment 115:21 Frank 6:3 7:22 9:5 30:2 frankly 31:8 116:2 frequently 117:4 fresh 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functional 152:18 fundamental 111:2 furans 25:23 26:4 furniture 110:17 further 33:8 36:24 57:16 136:16 Furthermore 124:22,24 125:9,11 G G 136:22 Gannett 45:3,6 45:9,20,20 57:24 60:11 62:8 63:16 66:1 68:21 69:3,4 70:3 106:3 gasses 202:22 gassing 103:4 104:12 gave 18:4 40:2 40:6 75:17 107:3 112:11 134:9 159:17 general 1:2 19:20 121:8 148:17 149:13 156:7 183:15 generally 118:18 gentlemen 10:18 92:11 137:19 gets 190:7 196:23 197:3 getting 30:20 31:5 91:12 99:23 179:12 giant 101:20 gist 34:13 give 16:23 18:20 28:20 35:18 99:5,7 112:9 131:19 154:19 159:19 184:6 198:2 200:9 given 19:1 60:15,18 132:21 155:13 169:1,21 178:10 192:10 192:10 193:12 207:6 gives 8:15 123:2 giving 28:18 glasses 90:10 90:11,16 92:9 glue 108:20 134:21 152:15 153:9,9,11,15 153:17 154:8 154:12,13 176:8 190:23 191:12,14 194:23 glues 134:3 go 16:7 20:8 38:2 45:8 78:13 85:17 89:22 96:5 107:12 111:8 112:5 116:10 118:20 126:22 130:7 138:24 148:16 150:8 170:6 189:24 198:2 goes 8:13 66:20 123:13 154:13 going 9:21 17:17 18:9 30:1,13 32:3,6 34:11,23 43:14 48:6 58:3 73:10 82:1 87:3 88:9 103:16 105:21 111:7 126:1 126:16,17 128:8 133:15 135:7 138:23 141:22 146:8 146:15 163:2 163:2 164:22 169:6 170:13 182:13 183:21 184:5,13 187:9,13,14 188:7 196:12 198:1,2 203:15,19 204:19,23 good 7:22 9:13 9:14,15 10:17 10:19,20,21 90:17 92:2,3,4 92:10,12 101:23 126:3 137:18,20,23 137:24 150:15 157:6 176:23 189:6 191:16 204:14 gotten 7:5 162:19 goutman 3:2 8:10,21 9:16 9:20 16:5,11 17:14,18,22 18:6 24:12,19 25:14 26:14 26:18 27:10 27:14 28:6,10 29:5,10,15,20 * 3 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60823 216 31:16 33:3 98:1148:8,9 190:11191:21 183:6 185:24 2:2 inconceivable 34:2 36:8,12 164:23 165:24 heating 108:17 205:2 hygiene 87:8 35:14 39:13,19,20 Hall 1:15 109:10 129:10 holding 154:8 hypothetical inconsequential 40:2,2,18 42:1 hand 18:2,15 129:20 130:3 154:15 187:9 56:24 130:11 192:15 42:4 44:7 82:6 168:14 157:16,17 holds 178:4 130:15 inconsistent i 45:14,16,21 handed 71:7 167:18 176:18 holes 120:2 165:14 46:1,2,6 47:10 93:14 190:9 home 89:17 I inconvenient 51:14 52:2 handled 6:16 heavy 185:11 90:18 idea 41:12 18:20 53:14 56:9 hanging 159:20 held 1:14 191:9 honestly 150:5 89:16 90:4 incorrect 14:22 57:6,20,23 happen 102:24 help 179:13 Honor 7:12 157:6 21:21 40:14 58:6,20 59:1 153:9 163:21 henderson 2:10 8:119:13,21 identification 41:10 59:13 61:8,13 happened 2:1118:24 13:13 16:6,11 39:21 54:6 increase 79:22 66:19 67:23 31:13,14 33:4 19:6 20:8,10 18:14,15 19:4 identified 42:5 100:10,20 69:15 70:19 89:24 30:5 31:3,6 24:13 26:15 47:14 114:20 101:21 74:2 75:13,19 happens 47:4 83:7,9 84:9 26:18 28:13 142:23,24 increases 122:8 81:21 86:16 86:6 206:3 29:6,15,20,23 identify 90:13 incredible 89:20 90:23 harmful 14:24 her 6:19 7:10 31:16 32:24 181:16 165:11 92:16 96:23 Harrisburg 7:16 8:1,2 34:7,18 36:9 illegible 19:12 incredibly 4 98:23 99:4 8:23 9:23 103:19 109:2 36:13 37:1,7 immediately 198:6 i 103:10 112:12 Hartford 3:16 132:15 182:3 38:22 39:3 77:6 99:16 indeed 31:22 115:13 116:2 having 7:5 25:6 herschel 4:2 44:8 45:17 impact 57:2 Independence 116:9,11,20 156:2 173:20 7:1112:1,4 48:5 49:8,16 impeach 26:19 2:6 118:2 122:12 hazardous 34:17 38:24 52:2 53:4,20 impeachment independent i 124:18,20 126:12 127:3 57:4 58:2,11 57:6 58:3,11 26:23 181:8 205:17 125:2,7 130:6 127:6 59:21 83:13 58:18 60:20 importance Indian 184:18 130:10 131:17 head 19:16 83:20 84:2 61:20 66:20 110:12 184:24 131:24 132:4 76:10 77:15 91:4 103:16 67:24 69:16 important 6:3 indicate 20:17 132:5 133:4 health 14:24 106:12 108:22 70:20 74:3,7 79:3,4 119:8 117:11159:18 134:15 137:2 16:18,22 17:2 132:14,20 75:18,20 182:21,21,22 175:10 143:11,22 17:7 19:16 134:1135:14 77:13 78:17 184:9 185:7 indicated 39:13 167:22 168:4 21:4,9 22:8,14 136:4 138:7 81:24 82:3,6 185:10,23 68:23 140:3 168:16 199:7 22:21 23:3,6 175:1182:2 83:6,12 85:19 202:16 140:12 141:9 200:10 203:21 23:15 24:11 Hersh 21:9 85:21 88:19 imprisonment 154:4 155:14 204:1,10,21 110:11112:18 Hershey 81:18 89:19 91:7 6:12,23 167:17 176:3 205:13,19,24 114:9,10 82:15,17 92:2,8 96:24 improper 26:19 176:24 Goutman's 115:1,12 85:11,14 98:24 99:2,5 28:3,6,15 indicates 30:24 116:11128:13 105:13 109:20 111:5 30:22 31:1,2 153:23 183:3 government 200:21 Hersh's 21:13 111:6 114:6 33:12 34:24 196:19 111:15 193:10 Healths 15:24 Hey 178:7,14 115:13,18 35:4,10 36:15 indicating grams 155:3 22:16 186:16 116:4,23 134:6 49:17,22,24 165:7 170:22 hear 10:13 high 22:11 96:9 118:7 122:14 improperly 54:22 63:22 graph 133:22 34:10 59:16 96:17 110:18 130:7,10 31:18 70:5 73:23 great 90:7 69:9 138:8 126:2 167:8 132:6,20 improve 92:8 75:12 84:16 134:12 193:2 204:18 201:20 202:4 133:4 134:5 inaccurate 34:3 107:10,17 greater 99:13 heard 28:14 higher 77:1,8 134:16 135:15 34:4 Indoor 114:7 117:10 65:18 68:22 77:22 78:21 136:5,19 inadequate industrial 87:7 greatest 110:12 69:4,5 72:4 78:23 79:17 137:2,9,16 68:16 113:18 117:19 grinding 117:7 87:11,16 147:12,16 143:17 167:23 inadmissible 122:18 187:4 groove 160:2 123:10 167:9 168:10 169:12 58:19 industry grooves 159:8 hearing 28:17 hike 58:8 196:12 199:11 inappropriate 111:14 ground 77:9 34:19 him 24:9,17 203:12,18,21 99:6 infinitesimal 79:17,23 heat 100:14 25:3,6,7 27:20 204:1 inc 1:7,8 2:24 199:18 group 6:16 55:3 107:1,5 27:23 31:12 honorable 1:11 inch 108:6 information guard 35:15 108:24 132:24 43:15 57:8 9:11 160:2 190:16 6:2 17:9 19:23 guess 66:2,7 161:3,10 58:6,24 59:1,2 hope 18:5 55:16 inches 76:19 35:21 39:18 69:13 87:20 162:5,13 59:4 61:12 Hopefully 108:4 117:14 39:23 40:3,6,7 169:16 163:11 179:11 67:6 68:10 88:22 127:10 187:21 40:17 42:1,9 guideline 93:9 179:13,16,23 118:9 130:24 horrible 30:9 incidental 48:22 54:1 guilty 7:6 180:4,4,6,15 131:1,13 hot 180:24 114:12,14,16 57:21 64:1 Gustin-Bacon 180:19 181:1 132:10,22,24 181:8 include 43:21 67:3,5,12 157:21 167:7 181:11182:16 133:16,24 hours 86:24 included 42:9 68:13,15 179:14 180:24 185:8 186:11 134:9,13 house 8:13,14 54:5 64:5 93:22 103:23 187:12 187:11 188:6 135:11 HOYLE 4:1 104:9 106:2 104:7,16 189:2 190:11 Hirsh 8:22 9:22 human 14:24 including 31:9 106:7,10 H 192:16 43:15 110:20 112:16 64:16 104:17 112:9 132:21 half 93:2 94:11 heated 100:5 historical 182:3 114:9,10 186:11 146:9 156:22 94:14 97:14 108:9 129:9 hold 57:9 61:13 115:1,12 incomplete 166:7 170:1 97:17,21,24 133:19 167:8 76:9 181:18 116:11 68:16 70:5 178:11181:3 171:17 177:12 182:16,17,24 HUMPHREY 188:19,22 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60824 217 ! 198:4 202:13 203:6 205:6 infuse 35:20 Initial 112:22 inner 42:21,24 43:8 50:11 innocuous 6:14 inquiry 57:17 inside 99:23 100:24 inspect 135:21 135:24 inspecting 165:5 install 158:14 installation 187:8 installed 149:2 instance 34:18 171:8 198:18 instead 165:23 186:22 204:17 Institute 193:9 instructed 185:20 instruction 46:17 183:19 184:1,5,16 instructions 155:24 160:17 insulation 159:12,19 160:4,18 intact 133:21 164:4 integral 119:9 integrity 151:12 154:14 171:5 176:9 185:9 intent 36:21 intention 204:3 interesting 7:17 7:24 interests 36:6 interior 43:23 Internally 22:1 interrupt 72:20 83:14 interrupted 29:13 30:11 interruption 36:3 interview 44:11 interviewed 44:4 inter-library 11:4 introduce 8:8 investigated 118:16,20 investigations 20:16 112:22 investigators 20:23 invited 33:13 inviting 52:3 75:19 involve 122:17 involved 25:8 95:4 107:3 26:2 132:24 116:5 121:17 involving 175:7 121:19 133:22 iron 179:17 137:20 143:5 180:24 181:1 204:5,16 181:11182:8 just 8:7 10:3,13 182:11,16,24 23:10 24:17 183:5,22 28:1 33:3 184:11187:10 34:20 37:16 187:10,15,19 37:23 38:10 190:18,20 44:22 50:16 191:9 50:23 53:4,15 ironing 181:15 56:7,11 60:12 184:17 61:14 65:15 irons 184:24 67:21 68:5,9 irrelevant 26:6 70:14 71:7 issue 6:16 25:20 73:12 74:18 35:17 68:15 75:1,9,16 73:14 81:15 80:22 83:16 89:1 96:20 86:5 88:19 103:4 204:5 89:10 94:9,16 issued 20:2 94:21 95:4 issues 122:19 96:7 98:1 99:3 items 150:24 101:17 106:6 106:8 117:6 .1 jacket 156:24 180:8 117:24 118:9 122:9 124:10 126:18 127:11 James 72:5 127:19 129:3 January 92:19 143:1,20 153:7 Jersey 113:17 158:12 JFK 1:22 job 112:1 158:6 132:5 133:15 134:4 135:9 136:20,23 141:14 142:17 151:12 159:7 161:8,9,20 162:6 164:7 164:3 166:14 187:13 john 1:18 5:2 10:5,10 207:13 join 159:10 joint 107:7 159:2 165:13,13 175:2 176:3 176:24 179:2 180:4 184:7 185:18,21 186:22 187:22 187:23 190:13 192:5,9,11 joints 160:6 193:7 197:15 joke 10:16 journals 189:10 JOYCE 2:19 jr 1:11 9:11 Judge 7:20 30:8 199:17 200:9 202:9,13 204:2,14 205:4 206:1 justified 189:4 July 168:22 170:12 172:12 K jumped 155:17 K 2:4 4:2 juror 6:6 KATHY 3:3 jurors 9:2 keep 100:14 jury 6:4,15,20 123:24 143:12 8:17 9:15,22 171:5 184:12 10:19 13:18 185:9 193:14 28:13,20,24 205:4 32:20,23 KENNETH 2:3 34:19 35:10 3:13 35:16,20,21 KERR 4:1 37:3 49:12 kind 24:6 29:21 69:3,9 81:16 68:13,24,24 81:19 86:2 72:1 80:19,20 88:12 90:19 85:13 94:17 91:8,19 92:4 121:9 124:12 92:12 94:5 147:21149:22 153:15 188:5 201:1,2,9 kinds 7:24 78:8 111:21 kinking 77:14 knew 7:2 47:9 71:7,11,15 105:23 106:5 134:11 178:12 know 6:22 9:1 21:18 22:23 '24:7,10 25:2 25:10,11 27:7 29:3,8 37:17 37:20,22 39:11 40:20 41:19,20 42:11,16,18 42:20 43:1 44:1,23 45:1 47:2,18 50:11 50:12 51:6,16 51:23 52:7,11 55:5,13,21 56:7,10,11,13 56:17 58:7 61:10 63:12 65:15,18 66:16,18 67:8 67:11 68:1,20 71:15 74:19 74:22 75:3,6,7 75:15 76:2 83:6 85:13,20 87:10 88:10 88:19 95:16 97:11 98:21 99:12 100:24 101:1,3 102:10 104:10 105:4 106:10 106:19 108:22 120:21124:20 135:12,12,13 144:9 145:1 154:6,23 160:1 163:17 166:17,22 172:6,15,17 174:12 177:4 178:9 180:19 180:23 182:10 182:14,18 184:11 186:24 186:24 205:11 knowing 47:6 knowledge 26:5 181:8 182:4 known 25:12 140:7 144:17 145:2 knows 24:17,22 29:22 34:3 99:8 134:22 192:2 Kominsky 77:23 79:16 138:4,5,16,19 139:24 140:11 140:21142:15 145:22 181:7 190:20 Kominsky's 52:18,23 72:13 73:14 75:4 78:4 106:24 108:12 139:9 151:3 181:3 L lab 45:5 63:20 label 50:19 53:5 53:13 labeled 53:9 labels 49:2,13 50:17,22 53:11 54:2 136:14 labor 184:23 laboratories 102:8,11 103:3 laboratory 45:3 45:10,13 46:7 46:11,14,18 47:5,16 49:3 68:17 69:1 82:10 84:17 84:23 86:12 178:24 189:9 ladies 10:17 92:10 137:19 LAGNESE 3:12 laid 66:22 land 126:10 landfill 124:23 125:21 126:5 126:7,11 127:7 language 12:7 24:2 large 190:15 largely 117:19 larger 19:3 last 11:7 16:12 16:14 18:4 31:9 37:16 54:11,15,18 55:2 62:18 111:6 123:11 129:3 139:12 173:15 175:11 201:21,24 later 111:22 205:20 law 2:10 39:15 40:16 43:5 44:4,11 45:2,8 54:7 113:17 151:1 lawyer 68:10 lawyers 67:15 67:18 69:14 69:22 LAWYERS 208:1 lay 59:4 layer 43:22 learn 196:2 learned 111:24 least 25:10 39:14 43:17 48:10 112:9 147:17 148:9 149:2 155:10 161:14 leave 31:17 106:22 127:12 127:20,23 128:6 166:16 leaves 33:19 91:20 122:7 177:17 198:23 leaving 122:19 123:5,15,17 124:1127:13 leeway 89:19 left 72:24 115:15,20 124:18,24 125:10 153:8 153:14,16 177:2 legislative 21:10 Lemen 29:4 34:12 37:21 length 35:11 159:24 190:15 lengths 134:13 less 93:2 94:11 94:14,23,23 94:23,24 95:11 146:17 149:14 153:4 let 26:11 33:2 37:9 45:18 47:24 54:3 56:24 57:15 61:5 69:18 89:15,16 96:7 101:9 102:14 102:15 107:15 138:12 144:2 152:22 190:13 194:17 196:5 196:12 197:20 letter 8:7 17:6,7 18:2 19:14 46:17,22,24 47:3 116:7 lettering 184:18 let's 16:10 37:2 38:2 49:12,14 71:17 76:23 77:21 81:15 85:17 95:7 101:5 106:22 108:15,23 112:10 153:2 160:2 166:20 193:3,24 199:2 0 1 % # ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60825 218 level 11:23 13:7 97:15 201:5,8,22 149:6 155:19 100:21101:2 45:18,24 46:3 14:4,12,18 listed 94:6 202:1,11,12 157:6 162:14 107:22 122:17 46:9 48:8 49:8 16:20,20 literature 202:24 203:6 166:1 183:3 164:17 170:18 49:11,19 20:15,18 21:2 179:20 195:11 looking 15:20 188:16 185:2 192:19 51:20 52:6 79:6,7,17 196:1 201:2 40:12 43:10 magillas 7:24 March 1:12,16 53:3,10,16,19 123:1,2,6 202:8 50:16 67:22 magnitude 207:14 53:23 56:12 124:9 125:18 little 30:21 54:4 68:6 70:1 55:24 56:3 mark 93:10 56:23 57:11 125:19 128:8 58:13 89:19 73:17 77:2 main 8:12 168:4 58:5,24 59:16 128:10 140:4 96:5 125:12 80:3 86:10 maintenance marked 168:2 60:1,19,22 levels 14:23 161:13 178:7 91:7 94:22 125:22 127:18 169:16 61:11,16,19 22:11 23:1 191:6 101:17,20 m^jor 111:13 Market 3:6 4:4 61:21 65:20 100:10,18 LLP 2:18 124:21147:23 112:2 mass 178:22 66:14,24 68:1 113:23 123:15 loan 11:4 148:12 155:11 make 7:8 16:7 massive 179:3 68:4 69:18,20 126:2 152:18 local 11:4 163:3 164:24 31:19 32:4 mastic 142:11 70:22 71:1,5 193:23 194:3 located 149:12 170:16 171:23 33:12 36:21 152:15,19 74:6,11 75:16 194:7 198:16 location 51:13 172:1174:24 57:16 75:9 mastics 152:6,9 75:22 77:17 198:22 199:3 52:24 54:6 202:13 204:14 100:19 105:18 material 15:13 78:16,19 s 199:16,17 locations 48:20 looks 89:22 118:24 119:20 15:16 43:13 81:23 82:3,8 Lexington 2:5 136:13 97:23 120:4 126:3 127:20 43:23 63:4,13 83:10,18,21 liability 112:16 locked 108:20 loosely 38:4 130:19 132:24 123:23 127:4 84:2,9,13 113:3 122:19 190:22 194:22 lose 187:13 133:6,7 152:16 167:7 85:24 88:18 I Liberty 3:5 4:3 log 49:15 loses 154:14 142:18 156:9 167:12 194:10 88:22,24 91:1 library 11:4 logical 66:8 loss 166:20,24 159:6,6 202:21 91:5,16 92:7 life 119:6 Logue 21:10 176:14 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176:23 180:6 41:9 44:22 132:2,12 124:23 125:20 89:22,23 90:5 low 11:23 13:7 201:1 51:4 59:11 133:15 134:7 126:5,11 90:6 94:3,4,8 14:4,12,18 man 132:7 61:18 65:21 135:7,11,20 130:22 136:21 95:19 96:20 84:19 93:7 MANAGEME... 73:15 77:13 136:10,15,19 136:24 152:16 97:9,12,12,14 113:22 152:17 1:4 81:10 88:12 137:8 204:18 156:7 162:11 105:11110:5 193:22 194:3 managers 124:4 128:10 204:22 205:22 162:23 181:15 110:8 112:10 194:7 198:6 111:14 112:3 137:15,17 McClain 5:3 182:8 183:20 122:3 146:20 198:22 manifestation 143:18 146:12 12:118:7 183:21 186:18 147:24 148:1 lower 79:7 112:17 169:9,11,13 30:21 31:11 187:8 188:19 148:13,17 95:16 98:15 manual 183:20 199:8 200:17 37:6 38:19 192:6 193:10 149:1,4,11,11 147:13,15 184:2,5 maybe 18:16 53:14 58:14 198:21 202:15 149:14 150:8 199:19 manufacture 91:9,11 94:5 61:8 83:13 likely 84:16,22 150:21 162:9 lowest 20:15 15:16 132:18 114:22 131:14 92:6 196:12 193:18 162:15,21 21:1 133:1,18 141:14 147:15 mean 33:17 likewise 137:8 168:21 173:13 Loy 64:9 82:11 134:18 156:6 149:13 155:17 34:5 67:9 limit 90:3,15,20 179:24 186:16 82:13,15 manufactured 186:22 187:21 72:20 79:2 92:8,16 93:2 199:11,15 93:13,18 15:1,3,6 189:17 80:22,24 89:4 94:6,11,14 201:9 202:4,8 lunch 91:9,13 131:22 132:8 MC 2:2,3,17 98:19 119:23 95:7,14 98:16 202:22 91:21 133:2,11 8:19 9:4,17 119:24 120:8 limited 27:19 looked 10:24 luncheon 91:14 135:5 156:16 10:12 12:3,5,6 122:1126:6,6 117:15 13:115:20 91:18 174:14 13:12,16,17 154:10 161:24 limits 89:13,17 50:23 63:23 manufacturer 17:5,16,21,24 165:5 182:15 94:9 95:15,21 64:12,14,15 M 184:4 18:8,13,18 182:22 183:19 line 46:21 78:9 64:20,21,23 M 3:2 manufacturing 19:11,13 Meaning 47:9 81:6,7 143:23 97:19 101:16 made 21:4 23:6 113:14 132:11 20:12 24:16 89:6 120:1 143:24 153:7 101:17 122:4 29:21 31:23 132:14 134:9 25:1,18 27:3 means 56:11,19 208:2 136:12 148:20 32:22 34:6 151:15 158:4 27:12 28:4,8 95:5,5 114:18 liquid 114:21 149:19 150:15 42:8 58:18 187:7 28:12 29:2,12 183:15 207:19 119:4 195:17 165:23 166:1 63:15 86:18 many 24:4 29:17,23 30:8 meant 40:13 1 liquids 201:12 166:6,6 100:8 134:16 27:22 36:13 33:1 37:1,7,12 99:2 181:24 liquor 120:6 186:16 199:23 135:17 137:11 40:21 76:4 37:15 38:21 measure list 94:8 95:1 199:24 200:2 97:4 98:16 39:1,5,7 44:14 177:14 188:7 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60826 219 measured 107:24 measurement 103:4 mechanisms 117:12 medical 19:15 Mega 124:14 Melius 24:8,18 25:2 27:5 29:3 34:12 37:18 Melius's 27:18 27:20 melts 183:8 member 112:20 memo 22:8 168:22 170:12 177:20,21 mention 87:14 mentioned 23:22 86:15 122:3 157:3 204:6 mere 112:18 merely 7:10 130:23 metal 158:10 158:10 meter 93:3 94:12,15 methods 112:6 128:18 MEYERS 2:19 6:21 microgram 16:3 20:24 22:15,22 93:3 93:7 94:12,14 micrograms 20:19 22:11 23:2 95:9 microphone 138:10 microscope 122:5 microscopic 120:1,2 mid 111:18 204:4 middle 9:18 10:1 33:6 might 7:17 30:24 38:15 57:3 70:10 75:17 89:23 90:8 91:13 114:18 167:11 176:10 192:3 194:20 204:15 miles 107:22 108:2,3,5 164:17,21 190:8,16 192:19 million 197:22 199:19 millions 197:17 Milton 81:17 82:14,17 85:11,14 111:24 114:7 105:13 118:18 119:8 mind 146:22 121:12 146:16 161:14 178:3 183:22 mine 96:2 184:11187:6 mineral 1:6 187:17 193:8 3:19 193:18 196:2 minute 65:17 196:10 203:14 91:10 101:6 morning 8:4 149:14 164:23 9:13,14,15 165:24 178:7 10:17,19,20 187:9 10:21 31:9,15 mirarchi 1:11 33:24 204:17 9:11 Morningstar misleading 172:3,16 67:24 MORRIS 4:1 misled 89:24 most 73:14 mismanagement 90:21110:20 15:8 117:4,5 127:6 missed 79:20 mother 37:8 116:3 motion 204:4,8 misshapened motivated 162:11 11:22 13:6 missing 116:14 move 37:13 Missouri 2:6 49:9 53:21 misspoke 182:1 70:20 74:5 mistaken 13:22 84:5 85:22 97:10 149:3 118:4 135:13 mistrial 204:9 136:24 137:5 mix 100:4,16 137:12 148:23 mixing 101:18 moved 37:8 mobilized movement 192:4 197:14 mode 100:23 movie 86:17 101:3 87:15 modifications moving 15:14 178:21 88:1 moisture MPH 19:15 126:16 much 56:13 molecule 72:11 93:8 123:11 103:3 111:20 molecules 111:24 117:9 197:24 128:20 154:24 moment 108:15 156:9 162:11 141:1,18,23 163:14 170:18 144:4,9,11 181:13 182:8 199:2 182:14,18 Monday 204:4 190:2,22,23 204:20 193:7,7 money 7:7 195:16 192:13 193:1 multiplying monitor 128:4 191:10 monitored must 36:16 100:18 119:10 monsanto 1:9 M.D 1:2 3:9 18:11 146:10 N MONTGOME... n 5:1 199:20 2:17 name 9:8 10:4 months 99:18 90:14 91:22 more 6:12,14 128:22 6:23 9:7 28:19 narrative 38:14 35:15 64:24 38:17 83:3 73:22 74:14 narrow 144:2 80:11 87:17 National 193:8 88:23 95:11 natural 15:11 97:13,17 15:15,17 99:23 100:8 naturally 15:3 109:13 110:9 47:18 nature 130:11 130:17 133:5 156:10 185:4 neal 3:12,13 5:4 8:1,5 136:17 136:18 137:15 137:18,22 138:7,9,11 143:14,17,20 143:24 144:1 167:24 168:6 168:10,14,18 168:20 169:2 169:11,14 174:21 175:1 175:5 196:11 196:13 199:10 199:22 200:11 200:12 203:12 203:17 near 189:18,23 nearly 93:18 necessarily 88:8 114:20 176:1 195:2 necessary 204:13 need 9:6 58:3 73:22 104:1 115:5 121:12 126:2 178:10 184:20 189:24 193:13 199:14 201:13 needed 74:10 needs 205:17 neighborhood 97:24 neither 116:14 never 22:8 24:5 37:9 43:6 44:4 62:10 68:18 80:24 87:11 87:16 89:23 104:3,4 130:13 133:20 156:15,18 157:7,12,15 157:23 170:6 new 113:16,16 next 38:2 174:17,19,21 night 16:12 ninth 78:20,23 NIOSH 15:22 16:17,20 17:3 17:8,1119:22 19:24 20:3,9 20:13,23 22:3 23:23 27:4 37:18,21,24 NIOSH's 16:1 nobody 123:10 187:14 non 135:19 146:17 none 63:7,8 66:4,5 166:3 172:20 nonetheless 115:3 130:20 Noonan 19:15 21:9 normalizes 78:10 normally 80:18 north 1:8 74:23 158:12 northwest 75:11 Notary 1:19 noted 52:24 NOTES 208:1 nothing 63:17 63:20 67:14 70:3 117:21 148:2 154:15 194:22 notice 6:5 noting 34:9 number 15:9 19:24 22:12 32:11 54:6,7,8 77:8 87:2 96:3 97:8 105:15 113:19 150:19 155:4 164:20 168:3,17 176:13 181:5 190:7 198:6 200:7 202:12 203:17 numbered 83:8 83:11 numbers 48:18 48:19,23 50:2 55:23 67:14 80:23 81:6 96:10 192:19 198:7 numerical 13:15 numerous 17:10 O____ Oak 3:15 oath 10:8 object 29:7,13 32:16,23 33:5 36:17 52:4 57:10 75:20 83:18 115:19 118:2 124:5 130:11,23 objection 16:5 16:8 17:23 24:12,23 25:14 29:1,5 30:12,15 32:4 32:5,14 33:9 36:1,4,22 44:7 45:16 51:14 56:9 57:4 58:2 59:24 66:19 67:23 69:15 70:19 74:2 75:13 84:5 90:23 96:23 98:23 106:12 115:14,19,23 118:12 130:6 132:16 135:18 136:4 137:3 167:22 objectionable 32:13 objections 31:20,23,24 32:15 33:15 34:7 objective 146:15 obligation 32:14 36:16 observation 150:15 obviously 102:23 occasion 149:15 occasions 32:12 147:8 164:24 165:23 occupational 17:12 20:14 20:21 occupied 146:19 occupy 22:10 23:4 occur 15:3 26:2 176:13 195:11 occurring 98:6 occurs 195:8 odd 11:17 143:4 off 30:5,7 49:2 58:9 76:9 98:8 102:15 103:3 104:12 108:18 109:1 135:13 160:3 186:5 192:16 202:21 offer 83:21 103:16 136:21 offered 27:5 134:1,17 136:7 138:3 offering 99:10 offhand 101:4 172:17 200:17 203:11 205:5 office 20:17 45:19,21 105:13 110:15 offices 2:10 21:10 often 110:13 112:23 114:11 119:8 oftentimes 183:21 Oh 109:12 127:5 157:19 J J ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60827 220 158:7 190:3 84:19,22 117:11121:10 182:11184:12 136:23 137:11 190:22,23 oil 152:20 87:21138:14 126:9 128:18 185:5 198:10 papers 202:13 191:3,11,13 Okay 37:2 144:17 145:2 137:4,10 overlapping paragraph 39:6 195:12 198:15 38:16 49:6,18 156:22 162:17 150:18 152:3 159:13 160:20 116:23 171:23 199:3,17 57:1 76:22 168:2 185:17 152:6,20 overruled 44:9 172:2 175:11 201:7 202:5 85:17 94:8 185:17 192:23 156:1,2 157:5 56:16 68:3 part 30:24 43:5 202:14,17 116:17,22 open 9:10 32:17 164:15 166:7 99:9 106:16 48:10 49:14 PCBs 14:3 15:6 139:8 174:23 32:19 148:1 169:23 172:18 118:13 136:9 53:5 54:13 20:14 25:13 180:2 194:18 148:21 173:17 179:20 own 24:14 113:9 115:14 26:2,5 69:2 o 205:13,24 old 113:14,21 older 114:13 operate 22:10 operated 99:13 operation 181:6,20 191:23 193:5 195:13 202:13 25:15 102:17 128:11154:11 171:21 122:9 142:22 144:10 154:11 174:15 183:9 76:24 77:2 79:23 82:18 84:24 95:9,17 115:6 100:23 205:10 owner 112:22 participation 101:12 103:2 rj oldest 50:18 opinion 57:9 others 72:5 owners 113:1 25:21 108:18,19 53:11 67:4 106:1 otherwise ownership particles 109:1113:14 once 113:13 130:18,22 36:20 148:3 46:10 195:12,14 114:18 115:4 159:10 131:1,2 ounce 189:17 Oxford 2:12 198:23,23 118:20 120:9 one 2:12 3:5 4:3 134:20 144:10 190:5 191:1 o'clock 203:20 particular 120:12,13,15 6:1,12,24 8:13 144:12 145:6 out 7:14,19 O'NEILL 3:3 114:2,19 120:17,19 16:2,3,21,24 145:14 150:20 11:20 14:6 117:13 142:21 121:6,10,17 20:19,24 179:23 184:10 26:24 30:11 P 146:22 151:24 122:19 123:5 22:15,22 23:2 202:7 33:7 35:19 P 1:115:2 9:11 171:8 175:19 123:22 124:1 * 24:13 25:10 opinions 26:19 27:7,20 103:16 104:16 44:12 49:14 10:5,10 59:9 66:10,12 PA 2:13,21 3:7 178:2 182:6 200:1 126:2,21 127:14,24 27:23 30:15 106:24 132:15 70:10 80:10 4:5 particularly 128:6 129:8 31:24 34:18 134:2 138:2,3 90:12 95:20 packed 174:6 11:19 110:14 129:18 130:1 35:3 37:16 138:14,15 97:5,11 page 5:2 12:3,4 partly 11:22 130:2,14 41:20 42:8 165:3 108:23 115:10 12:19 13:10 13:6 131:5,10,23 43:17,20,21 opportunity 115:15,20 13:12,16 parts 55:11 133:3,7,8,12 46:21 50:16 28:21 35:18 122:7 124:18 38:11,13,20 199:6 134:21,23,24 51:4,12,23 103:11 204:7 124:24 125:10 38:22,23 39:2 passed 6:3 135:5 136:3 53:17 58:4 204:11 126:4,17 48:5 49:16 182:2 143:6,7 72:10,12,17 opposed 79:12 129:11139:24 53:18 54:3 patches 184:17 145:17,19 73:19,21 89:9 100:23 146:8 149:6 58:22,23 184:24 146:10 150:3 76:16 77:21 105:16 150:6 153:3 77:18 83:7,9 path 196:24 151:6,17,20 77:21 79:5 opposite 75:24 165:12 170:6 83:10,24 84:8 pathways 152:23 153:1 87:19,22 88:8 100:12 173:5,17 84:10 90:24 196:15 153:3,8,16,24 89:12 93:7 option 119:12 175:13 176:16 92:19 94:4 pay 7:8 165:12 166:3 102:16 104:5 125:18 178:15 185:22 95:24 110:5 PC 3:12 166:10,12,16 107:7 113:16 options 127:9 187:6 190:2,7 111:7,8 PCB 11:21,23 167:8 170:18 113:20 115:24 oranges 194:15 190:17,24 112:12 114:5 12:8,21,22 170:18,24 116:3,7 194:20 191:24 192:10 116:6,22 13:5,7 14:4,12 175:21 177:2 124:21125:1 order 55:24 193:20 195:6 118:22 122:12 14:17,18 17:9 177:13 178:14 127:8,24 56:3 100:14 outdoor 127:8 122:13,14 19:23 20:3,16 178:15 190:2 129:3 133:23 108:2 155:3 outer 41:7,13 143:2,3,11,13 20:23 24:5,11 191:22 192:15 140:8,9 165:6,10 41:18 42:21 143:14,16 25:20 68:18 193:16,17,20 141:24 147:2 166:16 185:9 42:23 43:8 153:7 174:20 72:9 81:12 194:1,4,10,12 147:15,16 196:2 44:18 50:12 174:21 199:7 83:5 84:14,17 194:20,22,24 148:3 149:2,5 Organization outright 152:23 199:10,11 84:19,21,22 195:15,22 167:24 168:8 200:21 outside 98:10 208:2 100:10 101:21 196:16,20 168:19 169:20 organizations 99:14,20,23 pages 91:2 109:16 110:1 197:16,22 170:10 172:9 193:8 100:9,13,17 95:20 96:11 110:15 112:16 198:10,21,24 172:10 174:17 organized 100:23 107:17 96:12 97:19 112:19,23 200:21 201:3 176:13,24 96:15 107:18 136:6 paint 110:16 113:20,23 201:11 202:2 177:1,16,19 originally 162:10 163:3 127:19,20,21 114:11 117:3 203:9 178:12,16 161:14 169:19 176:17 152:4 117:8,13 peal 171:20 179:22 191:10 ornamental oven 171:17 painting 124:10 120:24 121:4 pen 107:15 196:10 200:1 118:23 119:18 over 41:9,14 Paisley 172:3 121:19 123:11 penetrate 117:9 200:9 203:11 OSHA 19:24 61:5,6 77:13 172:16 123:17 125:21 120:19,23 203:20 other 6:2,13 107:12,14 panels 25:9 128:23 130:20 penetrated ones 72:24 15:2,9 18:16 112:24 115:17 paper 52:21 132:10 133:9 120:17 173:24 21:8 41:21 115:24 116:3 67:22 68:11 139:3 140:15 penetration ongoing 122:17 43:10 47:12 119:5 121:22 109:23,24 143:5,7 117:14 119:3 only 6:24 23:23 52:8 53:17,24 122:6 124:10 110:10 111:7 152:14 165:6 120:6 24:3 27:4,7,8 55:2 57:21 127:11132:16 111:10,19 165:9 166:19 Penn 18:13,13 34:15 40:18 62:19 63:5 138:12,24 112:8 120:24 166:24 176:14 60:14,14 82:5 41:1 50:10 64:7 69:1 143:4 159:19 121:4 126:9 178:2 179:4 85:20 109:21 s 58:14 63:24 72:10,11,17 73:10 84:23 103:2 114:18 160:6 161:11 180:5 181:11 128:22 129:2 188:7 189:13 Pennsylvania 189:18,19 1:1,2,2,3,4,5 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60828 221 1:15,16,23 9:9 19:16 91:23 penthouse 147:3 people 14:23 39:16 64:8 68:22 87:7 102:10 111:23 121:8 123:24 124:10 126:9 128:2 166:7 179:21182:3 185:4 193:10 people's 111:2 164:16 per 7:6 20:19 20:24 72:12 93:3,7 94:12 94:14 124:8 128:16 149:14 155:3 165:7 170:22 perceived 112:18 percent 96:8,16 99:14,17 100:13,22 101:3 165:8,9 170:20 percentage 166:20 perfect 203:13 perform 101:10 188:5 192:21 performed 119:11175:22 188:24 perhaps 34:5,8 34:14 93:22 119:8 172:23 178:18 191:6 period 22:6 41:9 181:17 190:24 permanent 125:13 permit 31:10 31:12 36:1 person 6:21 35:3 90:12 184:10 personal 30:21 31:17 35:4,9 personally 69:1 persons 21:8 PHALEN 2:4 phase 121:14 171:11 198:17 199:4 200:14 Philadelphia 1:16,23 2:21 3:7 4:5 PHILIPS 1:8 phone 2:7,14 2:22 3:8,17 4:6 184:6 photographs 150:18,21,23 151:3 164:3 166:1 phrase 11:20 physical 117:12 physics 201:14 201:15,18,19 pick 124:23 picture 88:11 piece 52:21 107:13 155:20 155:20 159:13 159:20 182:9 183:23 184:8 190:16 pieces 158:15 Pittsburgh 2:13 place 3:5,14 4:3 20:5 21:19 23:5 35:5 122:19 123:5 123:16,17 124:1,14 127:14,24 135:17 191:9 197:4 198:9 198:10 plain 159:7 Plaintiffs 1:5 2:8,15 Plaintiff's 16:24 32:3 36:13 129:7 plant 113:14 128:3 132:14 153:10 plants 115:6 133:19 plasticizer 151:21153:12 170:24 176:10 plasticizers 134:2 153:4 please 9:12 52:1 81:22 91:24 112:12 122:12 168:21 199:7 plexiglas 149:3 pliable 171:1 175:17 pockets 175:13 176:1,4,5 point 30:23 40:18 71:6 72:12 74:1,4,9 75:9,24 78:13 78:14 79:10 90:13 99:18 109:5 119:21 130:19 133:6 134:16 135:16 139:12 141:15 141:15,19 153:19 154:16 166:19 189:6 192:12 205:7 pointed 11:20 80:10 115:10 139:24 192:10 pointing 12:9 77:20 185:22 points 75:24 79:5 polluted 198:17 199:5 polychlorinated 111:12 porosity 119:6 121:23 122:2 122:8 porous 119:2 119:22,24 posited 190:20 position 28:23 35:19 117:24 possibilities 51:21,24 possibility 57:13 possible 41:11 41:18 51:8,24 167:3,4 177:19 188:19 188:23 Possibly 88:21 post-fire 77:1,9 141:7 potential 20:3 pounds 183:1 PQL 94:6 practice 23:21 122:16 precipitate 112:23 precisely 55:2 preclude 205:8 precluded 205:9 predominant 110:14 prefer 205:4 preliminary 205:2 premature 58:12 59:22 59:24 prepare 205:18 prepared 66:9 205:14 presence 35:19 112:19,23 114:12 present 1:20 110:16 139:10 141:16 142:20 156:15,18 180:21 204:3 presiding 9:12 press 43:18 pressure 103:5 182:14,15,19 182:20,21 183:1 202:18 pressures 201:6 202:15 presumably 41:7 100:17 presume 34:23 pretty 96:6 126:23 128:20 133:12 157:6 182:8 186:14 188:9 previously 118:11177:21 pre-fire 62:3 72:9 76:24 105:1141:6 141:17 142:20 144:6,11 151:1 primary 148:15 154:21 princess 184:18 185:1 principal 197:9 prior 62:21 146:8 privy 35:22 probably 47:14 68:16 114:1 176:12 183:4 187:13 200:20 probation 6:24 7:6 probative 131:10 problem 14:13 14:22 15:2,5 29:11 33:15 34:16 173:20 175:12 179:8 problems 31:21 34:18 85:5 179:6 proceed 36:2 137:15,17 169:11 205:14 process 15:11 15:13,15,17 70:2 151:15 167:11,18 170:14,17 173:6 176:16 176:17,18 178:19,21 179:14 186:12 187:14 188:6 189:3 192:16 195:8 197:15 198:3,9 processes 187:8 produced 141:11,13 178:22,23 product 15:18 173:18 174:13 176:23 177:3 182:6 203:10 production 178:19 products 1:6 143:8 146:11 151:22 Professional 1:19 program 64:6 project 54:6,7 projects 25:21 26:3 122:17 123:9 prompted 114:11 properly 185:20 property 113:1 113:18 122:18 prospective 6:6 protect 36:6 protection 114:10 147:21 protective 122:20 123:18 127:14 protocol 188:15 protocols 167:6 proven 102:16 164:11 provide 173:18 provided 21:22 22:4 62:5,7,10 67:5 166:7 170:10 172:19 172:23 public 1:3,19 20:4 published 189:10 puddle 114:21 pull 7:16 160:23 pulled 14:6 pump 86:7 pumps 92:22 punishable 6:11,23 pure 190:22,23 191:13 puree 99:2 101:3 purged 98:17 98:19 purging 98:22 100:1 105:20 105:24 purpose 36:22 99:24 106:21 112:7 148:15 154:19,21 176:21 185:17 purposes 78:15 128:11 138:22 148:11 204:2 push 147:24 148:20,24 182:17 pushed 148:24 pushing 149:5 put 18:9 21:19 27:14 40:9 56:18 84:4 90:10 94:5,21 108:23 121:3 121:14 126:13 127:10 134:12 157:12 159:10 160:6 161:3 173:6 182:16 184:7 191:20 197:13 205:1 putting 92:9 171:9,19 P.C 2:2 p.m 91:18 206:8 Q______ qualifications 25:5 27:19 qualified 132:3 132:7,17 133:16,24 135:1 qualify 134:13 qualifying 6:7,8 6:9 quality 63:19 64:5,6,18 100:6 132:23 157:20 quantification 94:17 quantities 84:19 question 6:8,19 7:3,13 17:1,20 19:20 23:13 24:20,21,24 28:14 29:9,11 29:14,18 30:11,14,17 30:22 31:1,2,7 31:20 32:7 33:6,7,23 34:8 34:10,19,24 37:17 44:8 56:10 57:20 58:15 59:17 59:18 61:15 67:24 71:1 78:6 79:20 82:19 87:4,5 104:3 106:13 117:24 123:14 127:22 129:24 130:12 131:4 131:9,14,18 131:20,21 135:2,8 152:22 166:23 182:1,2 200:11 questionnaire 6:7,9,10 questions 6:14 8:20 30:10 31:11 32:12 34:6 36:14 59:3 118:9 136:16 166:5 quibbling 141:14 quick 34:14 quite 15:9 100:11 123:8 4 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES # I TOWOLDMONOQ60829 ii 222 150:5 146:13 147:11 172:9 183:17 114:22 resin 123:23 rewrite 172:8 quotations 150:4 151:14 referring 53:15 removal 115:5 respects 120:3 RHOADS 2:18 137:10 154:7 155:4 61:9 71:22 remove 121:13 respond 33:11 right 7:15 8:5 quote 111:6 157:10 172:21 94:18 115:11 165:18 132:6 204:23 12:17 13:21 115:14 187:4,20 155:19 160:16 removed 204:24 205:10 13:22 14:5 188:3,3 200:6 168:13 170:11 123:11 responds 9:15 15:4,19 19:17 ______ R_____ recalled 10:10 179:17 200:13 rendered 10:19 92:4,12 20:6 21:11,15 R 3:13 207:2 receive 46:13 refers 174:4 132:14 202:6 137:20 21:20 22:15 y raise 32:15 59:24 115:19 115:23 146:9 received 6:1 41:24 47:5 refresh 61:6 refreshes 26:11 refuse 148:13 rendering 67:4 repeat 29:6 repetition response 19:19 responsibilities 127:19 22:17 23:15 23:19,24 25:13 39:19 raises 7:23 85:6 150:24 167:16 148:17 28:18 responsibility 39:23 40:2,6 RALPH 2:4 178:24 regard 53:24 rephrase 24:24 125:23 40:23 41:2 range 20:19 recently 39:10 54:10 57:15 report 8:16 responsible 42:3 43:23 75:17 96:9 146:18 82:14 86:14 38:6,9,15 128:2 130:21 44:6,19 45:12 ranges 95:21 recess 30:2,4,20 90:19 95:12 39:10,19 40:9 responsive 45:15,22 rapid 113:2,9 91:15,18 98:14 106:8 40:2242:6,9 118:8 46:11 48:11 rapidly 111:13 169:7 107:5 118:17 44:21 48:4 rest 98:7 49:21 50:8,13 j 112:1 rate 197:16 recessed 91:21 169:8 170:9 177:7 202:1 57:24 60:12 61:7,10 62:8 116:18 162:16 restitution 7:8 50:19,22,24 51:5,13 54:2 rates 189:8 recipient regarding 62:11 63:2,5,6 result 77:22 54:22 55:3 i I 193:1 201:6,9 202:15,18 rather 78:12 145:12 146:2 Recognize 182:4 106:24 regardless 129:19 131:2 63:20 66:21 67:10 68:6 70:4,8 71:7,20 115:5 141:7 144:12 198:16 199:4 64:2 65:20,23 69:22 71:9,13 73:11,24 113:2 131:9 recognized 142:13,14 93:22 97:8 resulting 117:6 74:15,17,24 145:18 184:6 24:11 195:16 104:17 139:24 results 20:15 76:1 77:11 i 195:16 re 191:4 recollection 26:12 61:6 regards 146:10 Registered 1:18 151:3 181:4 190:21 201:1 48:1,14 52:22 52:23 55:17 78:3,5 79:13 79:24 80:7,14 read 18:24 24:7 recommend regret 35:1 202:7,10 28:1 54:4 17:11 20:1 regulated 25:12 207:21 67:10 70:6,8 recommendation regulations reported 41:24 59:7,14 62:15 62:16 63:18 63:22 64:1,9 81:5,13 82:10 82:18 85:1,7 86:12,22 87:9 115:15,22 16:1,2,23 17:3 125:17 127:7 62:15,16 64:12,14 65:5 88:3,6,14 89:3 116:10 122:22 20:2,9 21:3,22 128:13 71:12 82:16 65:6,10,12,14 89:10,13 124:19 125:3 136:23 139:9 22:4,14,17,18 regurgitate 23:7,14,18 26:24 104:18 Reporter 1:19 65:24 66:6,10 66:17,18 67:8 91:16 93:10 93:14,20 177:21 178:6 recommended related 25:23 reports 60:4,13 71:12,17 72:2 94:12,19 95:2 184:7 20:23 170:1174:15 64:23 72:9,14,23 95:17,24 reading 26:20 recommending relates 49:20 represent 41:7 73:8 77:23 96:10 98:3,7 27:15 84:1,8 16:18 115:9 132:19 110:19 78:11,20,21 99:24 101:7 199:9 reads 53:11 ready 192:3 recommends 17:11 20:13 reconvened relating 20:3 representative relatively 167:8 89:2,5 release 24:5 representing 78:22,24 79:21 80:12 81:12,12 102:8 104:5 104:11,24 105:5,17,22 real 35:24 91:24 101:12 114:21 2:8,15,23 3:9 83:12 84:11 106:4,5,11,22 41:12 102:14 record 10:4 128:9 193:16 3:18 4:7 7:10 84:12 86:2 107:7,20 108:23 16:6 28:9,13 193:19 33:20 87:18 90:6 108:5,11 realize 7:5 30:6,7 32:10 released 139:17 reproduction 101:16,18,22 109:24 113:5 197:19 58:9,20 83:15 194:21 207:18 191:19 192:7 116:19 118:17 really 71:14 103:17 117:21 83:17,17 130:13,13 releases 15:8 relevancy reputable 193:8 192:21 resume 81:22 119:12 121:6 122:11 123:7 119:15 122:10 136:20 207:6 59:12 requalify 24:13 return 8:23 124:2 128:5 135:3 146:12 records 84:3 163:17 198:4 rectangle relevant 203:7 request 65:1,2 9:23 reliable 59:15 require 183:5 returning 8:7 128:19,24 130:5 135:22 reason 36:4 58:8 73:6 159:11 rectangular relied 40:5 184:23 reveal 112:22 59:13 150:19 required 33:10 review 16:15 150:13 157:22 158:17 160:21 86:20,23 87:24 88:4 108:7 155:20 159:17 recycled 100:16 rely 59:19 68:14 113:17 173:19 60:23 61:12 61:14 62:21 168:5 172:4 177:24 186:7 124:5 177:24 red 85:6 107:15 remain 149:10 requirement 63:9,13 64:18 204:19 204:2 205:1 reduce 35:8 171:1 127:6 128:12 71:8 106:4 rightly 36:17 reasonable reduced 20:14 remained 91:19 requires 125:22 144:19 167:16 rights 36:5 187:2 refer 114:17 133:21 127:18 reviewed 16:12 rigid 153:12 reasons 128:14 174:5 196:1 remember 11:7 requisite 17:9 19:23 154:9 164:4 177:1 178:13 201:18 178:16 193:6 reference 17:14 11:13 12:7,13 158:16 16:4 76:9 research 26:7 44:16 rigidity 154:20 59:11 60:3,13 risk 110:11,24 recall 11:15 17:19 92:17 81:18 86:18 117:17 201:2 61:3 132:12 111:3 112:18 24:1 47:21 61:1,2,22 76:4 81:3 97:7 100:12 146:7 196:1 references 110:5 referred 156:3 90:22 107:2 151:18 200:16 remind 10:7 37:23 201:10 202:2 202:5,19,20 205:2,18 reserve 137:4,6 133:22 134:10 172:24 188:16 203:5 reviewing 112:21113:3 rolling 205:4 room 89:21,22 91:20 114:19 157:1 169:5 remnants 137:13 61:22 172:21 roughly 93:20 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060830 223 93:21 95:12 98:3,4 170:21 route 110:20 routine 115:3 routinely 20:22 RPR 207:13 rule 124:14 ruled 29:7 59:9 118:11 ruling 30:12 32:8 34:14 58:19,22 137:5,7,14 205:7 run 102:1103:1 180:4 181:11 181:14 182:8 182:8,11 184:12 running 19:5 184:11 S S 2:19 143:6 safe 123:1,3,13 125:19 128:8 Safety 21:20 51:10,18 52:9 52:12 56:20 87:22 88:2 105:3,7 113:12 117:22 119:16 129:22 139:5,14 140:8,16 141:2 142:2 144:18 146:5 148:5 152:17 164:18 179:1 199:20 same 11:15 13:14,16 20:2 35:14 53:18 54:12,18 57:24 62:20 63:17 71:12 71:16 73:17 75:24 77:10 78:4 79:6 87:2 106:3 126:19 127:1 153:6 197:22 207:19 sample 43:8 47:13 48:1,18 48:19,23,24 49:15 54:5,8 55:11 64:20 65:1,3 72:10 73:19,21 74:21 75:4,7 75:10,11 76:16,18 86:24 87:19 87:22 88:8 89:7 94:3 95:6 149:22 164:7 165:17,19 166:11 sampled 62:15 113:22 sampler 39:22 42:5 samples 38:5 38:18 39:8,17 39:24 40:8,21 40:23 41:3,5,6 41:13,17,19 42:2,7,10,12 42:13,15,17 42:19,21,23 42:24 43:13 43:13,16 44:2 44:3,13,17,18 45:2,7,8,19 46:14,16,20 47:5,8,13 48:21 49:21 50:10,12,23 51:3 52:8,19 52:24 53:18 54:1,9,10,13 54:24 55:3,6,7 55:9,10,14,14 56:8 57:1,2,8 57:16,18,22 57:24 62:1,3,6 62:14,20 63:17,24 64:3 64:22 66:1 71:12,16,21 71:22 72:3 73:16,20,23 74:14,20 76:23 78:4 80:4,5,12 81:17 82:9,15 82:16,23 83:1 83:2 84:16,20 84:21,23 85:1 85:9,18 86:21 87:2,6,20 90:20 92:21 92:21 93:12 93:13 94:22 95:13 96:8,16 96:22 97:4,6 97:22 98:2,15 100:21104:10 104:17,19,23 105:2,4,12,15 106:3,20 141:17 142:20 164:16 178:23 sampling 86:2 86:6,7,14 87:3 87:18 89:2,3 113:19 151:1 sanitary 126:11 satisfactory 104:8 save 100:17 saw 149:15,18 157:12,15,23 158:3 162:11 164:2 178:5 178:24 191:18 191:19,20 200:18 saying 16:23 23:10 47:19 65:22 123:1,4 128:1144:3,5 145:17 154:7 166:15 181:20 184:22 192:19 193:15 says 17:1,8 19:19 39:2 50:17 53:6,16 82:24 83:5 84:3,10,14 85:2 93:11 115:1 120:10 122:16 123:17 125:20 128:14 153:8 173:15 175:15 178:8 180:3 184:4 scale 94:18 scenario 189:22 191:16,17 schedule 204:19 scheduling 204:2 school 81:18 82:15,17 85:11,15 105:13 158:9 201:20 202:4 schools 85:17 science 189:7 191:16 192:11 192:24 scientist 67:2 68:8,12 85:6 102:7 188:18 192:17,22 195:24 scientists 69:2 188:16 scope 136:6 scrape 160:10 160:19 scraped 43:7 screen 18:9 95:8 se 7:6 124:8 128:16 seal 126:1 128:10,11 180:6 185:14 185:18 186:2 sealed 98:7 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111:18 117:10 139:23 184:3 184:15 185:21 186:8 187:17 189:21192:13 193:6 198:3 sensitive 92:24 sent 6:18 7:14 45:14,19 46:6 46:7 sentence 115:21124:17 125:10 173:15 175:11 separate 155:9 163:2 174:10 separated 53:2 separately 55:12 September 58:21,22 sequence 16:12 16:13 150:4 series 15:20 50:3,4 serious 35:24 serve 78:15 128:16 services 1:2,21 19:21 session 37:5 169:10 set 26:3 86:7 93:18 94:3 95:13 96:22 124:11 settings 96:18 seven 147:1 153:8 several 20:15 118:24 119:19 136:13 171:18 171:19 174:7 shapes 158:13 sheet 158:9,10 159:6 sheets 158:24 159:2 shield 149:3 shifted 161:13 shirt 181:15 shoes 114:24 shop 158:10,11 short 112:15 114:8 169:7 shorthand 207:21 short-term 117:7 shot 86:17 87:15,19 88:5 88:15 89:10 89:16 shots 86:22 87:8,21 show 23:5 27:20,23 47:24 48:6 49:12,23 57:23 61:9 79:22 84:3 114:18 125:6 166:12,19 167:13 192:14 196:5 197:15 197:19 showed 58:6 59:1125:5 141:16 189:20 shown 16:16,21 59:10 110:6 117:9 shows 79:11 117:13 197:24 205:2 shuffle 175:2 side 16:7,9 26:17 29:21 32:1 33:10 34:1,21 35:18 58:4,10 72:24 77:14 107:7 130:7,9 203:22,24 sides 36:11 side's 26:20,21 sight 90:8 signals 206:2 signed 6:18 significance 73:6,7 significant 59:5 72:4 significantly 73:2 similar 84:18 103:2 178:19 simple 165:4,20 185:6 188:4 simply 36:21 42:4 46:21 80:17 100:3 132:21180:3 183:6 185:13 Since 77:20 84:18 single 29:14 sir 10:4 11:10 12:12,14,24 14:1 19:18 20:7 21:6,12 23:16 38:1,7 39:13 47:20 47:23 50:1 54:5 55:4 60:5 64:20 81:20 94:2,20 95:3 101:8 107:21 109:7 135:23 136:11,18 138:17 139:7 143:3 145:10 159:1,15 161:1163:8 163:10 175:9 180:18 181:24 195:20 196:4 196:9 i J i A % ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60831 224 sit 66:16 129:5 124:5 137:4 southeast 75:12 standards stricken 71:4 111:1115:2 183:5 202:9 138:4,6,18,20 space 120:3 110:13 111:4 78:17 116:13 117:6 site 126:11 144:5 152:15 spaces 122:5 124:8,15 strike 70:20 122:20 123:18 146:5,9 148:5 156:8 157:4 span 119:6 127:10 193:9 74:5 118:5 127:15 128:15 156:19 158:24 159:12 162:9 121:22 standing 33:11 structural 180:5 190:17 160:9,10 162:14 163:2 speak 181:22 standpoint 112:20 118:23 197:1,4 164:9 166:1,19 speaking 16:8 119:2 119:9,18 surfaces 20:5 sites 126:12,13 167:12 178:20 32:4 staple 160:23 167:13 185:13 20:20 sitting 192:18 181:17 182:3 special 188:15 185:23 186:1 survey 43:6,7 situation 28:22 183:24 188:5 specific 23:13 stapled 162:5 structure SUSAN 4:2 M 88:8 99:21 191:1193:5 81:1 82:20 163:9 154:12 suspect 46:22 155:6 189:12 194:10 198:4 90:24 168:19 staples 185:11 structures 90:2 153:1 situations 24:5 199:24 202:24 183:2 stapling 161:2 111:11 186:13 110:11117:21 somebody specifically 161:9 subject 14:2 suspected 71:11 120:22 124:4 10:14 90:14 61:4,24 71:15 start 9:3 66:9 103:20 196:2 sustained 24:23 six 41:1 77:5 124:11134:22 123:14 170:15 102:15 138:12 203:1 25:17 31:22 89:20 191:10 182:5,24 specification 153:2 166:21 subjects 161:13 32:5,13 51:19 191:11 187:9,12 181:18 183:14 started 33:5 submitted 52:5 66:23 sixth 76:23 192:24 183:18 100:12 151:12 132:22 69:17 70:21 78:21,24 97:5 somehow 47:13 specifications starts 96:4 substance 74:8 75:21 97:14,18,22 78:2 129:11 174:16 182:23 162:24 172:2 28:19 66:20 78:18 97:2 98:3,5 105:16 176:9 speculate 52:4 173:14 119:1,20 135:18 148:16 someone 57:17 182:12 state 1:5 10:3 sucked 86:8 sustains 29:1 size 89:8 158:16 185:19 speculation 22:5 38:17 sufficient 59:6 switch 199:2 184:7 something 51:15 75:14 64:4 112:15 89:7 sworn 207:5 sizes 158:13,18 10:23 12:15 75:20 183:9 123:1 125:12 suggested 17:3 synthetic 15:18 Skelly 64:9 19:6 24:3 183:11 137:3 suggesting system 101:19 82:11,13,15 43:10 73:10 speech 32:18 stated 44:20 36:20 93:13,18 76:19 86:15 70:20,23 statement 34:4 Suite 2:5 4:3 ___ T______ skilled 184:23 skin 20:22 97:24 113:23 spend 192:13 118:16 126:14 spent 158:12 39:11 86:18 summary 63:18 T 143:6 207:2,2 110:21 111:16 summer 158:1 table 38:8,13 slide 116:7 134:22 162:11 192:24 147:18 158:2,6 41:4 48:4 slower 197:17 181:16 183:2 spill 114:20 statements summers 158:8 52:21 53:20 slowly 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145:17 72:22 8:16 supposedly 179:24 187:9 189:6,8,11 200:14 201:4 83:14 88:4 spreading statistics 81:8 175:21 197:21 solid 120:4 126:12 195:17 89:4 98:20 100:2 111:6 145:18 spun 89:17 stays 126:3 127:21 supposing 7:10 taken 44:2 49:2 supposition 62:2 74:20 solids 201:12 138:8 143:15 square 20:20 step 18:17 30:23 32:9 75:2,4,7,10,12 solvents 121:10 155:17 158:7 21:1 76:4,8,14 77:13 sure 42:23 75:15,18,23 some 10:1 161:13 175:4 76:15 155:3 still 10:8 18:5 60:10 61:16 81:17 82:17 ii 11:12,17,17 19:4 25:7,8,9 35:12 41:24 182:1 196:11 sort 126:19 183:24 193:5 165:7 170:22 stability 133:21 stage 59:20 20:1041:18 96:3 111:16 115:6 117:20 73:1 81:23 89:7,8 99:21 100:9,19 92:21 96:16 98:16 100:22 101:2 106:11 54:1,11 60:10 source 48:21 stand 9:24 164:4,4,5 103:18 105:5 110:4 166:12 64:22 71:15 77:23 87:3 84:22 139:3 140:2,24 69:12 81:22 183:6 166:10,12,13 174:2 187:10 112:5 125:6 191:24 202:20 126:3 127:21 takes 86:24 90:13 93:6 141:1,23 standard 15:23 stood 33:5 128:5 129:23 187:17 99:18 101:24 102:23 103:16 142:4,7,9,24 144:17,22 16:2,4 21:18 straight 206:2 22:9,15,19,22 strategically 142:18 166:11 taking 89:10 176:22 180:6 95:6 162:21 110:4,24 145:2,15 23:23 26:3 31:18 183:7 185:7 197:4 198:9 112:9,10 sources 17:10 113:20 114:22 19:24 140:7 114:22 119:3 152:20 27:4 102:24 103:6 115:12 123:12,13,16 strategy 31:10 186:3 188:15 talk 101:5 street 2:20 3:6 188:16 198:24 106:23 133:16 3:15 4:4 186:5 surface 20:16 170:7,10 119:22 120:3 south 2:20 122:5,9 123:1 74:23 105:13 124:12 174:16 strengths 90:10 188:13 stretch 91:9 20:18 43:22 72:14 110:12 183:10 199:15 i ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60832 225 talked 25:24 38:3 80:2 86:1 89:14 133:17 138:3 167:5 179:11,12 180:10 184:17 190:8 talking 15:21 18:1 69:7 73:16 86:15 92:15,20 93:12 94:19 100:2 104:12 110:24 111:21 122:24 142:13 144:8 152:9 153:16 154:17 154:18 155:5 155:8 157:8 157:20 159:21 159:23 161:12 161:15,16,18 165:6,8 168:19 172:5 176:8 178:20 189:14,16 191:2 192:23 193:2 194:11 194:15,19 198:7 199:16 201:14,16 202:17,19 talks 197:3 198:5 199:17 tape 107:1,6,13 108:4,8 158:21161:3 161:10,16 162:6 163:11 179:17 180:8 181:12 182:9 182:11 183:7 183:23 184:7 184:12 185:4 185:8,13,18 186:1,2 187:11 189:15 190:16 taped 180:5 technical 132:21 technique 128:16,17 techniques 112:6 Technology 109:16 110:1 128:23 193:9 TEDFORD 3:12 tell 12:2 33:2 60:2 63:21 68:17 69:3 88:9 98:18 114:15 120:8 143:5 162:17 165:16 168:12 182:24 185:16 204:16 telling 12:13 121:17,19 189:24 tells 68:10 temperature 100:6 176:19 temperatures 167:9 ten 22:11 23:2 56:4 93:8 96:15 127:10 159:23 183:1 186:23 tenth 77:11 93:7 term 12:14,21 72:4 112:1,15 112:21 114:9 122:18 125:22 125:23 127:18 153:14 terms 55:1 80:22 87:17 88:12 104:19 154:6 terribly 148:2 test 59:14 73:5 73:6,7 80:15 80:16 95:9 101:6,12,13 101:15 102:2 102:18,22 103:1,5,18 104:1,4 108:23 109:10 157:16 163:18 163:19,20,23 175:6,19 177:10 178:15 188:5,10,23 189:22 191:14 191:18,21 192:4,6,14,21 193:5 tested 62:15 testified 57:7 133:13 138:1 139:10,19 140:24 142:21 145:22 150:14 151:9,11 153:6 166:18 181:7,19 testify 70:13 testifying 25:15 60:8 98:24 151:14,18 testimony 1:13 5:2 11:112:14 16:13,16 26:7 26:21 27:6 28:18,19 42:6 44:16 59:12 68:21 69:8,16 90:22 91:3 92:18 94:10 96:24 99:5,8 99:10 107:1,2 108:1,12 138:13,15 139:2,9 141:5 143:2 151:5 156:4 157:2,4 161:21165:4 176:4,8 181:19 207:6 testiness 35:12 testing 134:19 142:19 157:21 167:6 171:9 tests 60:3 69:2 92:24 95:24 101:10 102:21 103:1104:13 106:2,6,11,23 132:13,23 153:18 174:15 175:23 177:7 193:11,14,15 193:17 textbook 153:23 201:20 202:1 textbooks 202:5,8 texture 162:22 Thank 17:21 36:23 46:2 92:7 136:15 their 35:19 36:6 63:18 64:7,15 64:16 66:17 67:21 68:5 70:8 84:3 89:21,23 127:10 134:8 157:11 166:8 187:13 205:10 themselves 193:18 198:22 theory 129:7,13 129:15 thereabouts 96:2 181:5 187:11 thing 7:22 19:5 33:14 66:8 89:12 98:13 125:3 126:19 127:2 129:4 165:5 185:17 193:6 things 11:17 15:9 22:12 64:17 89:21 104:13 105:21 109:13 111:21 111:23 113:19 116:3 124:13 125:16 150:19 152:4 156:9 187:6 191:24 202:15 think 6:2 7:5,21 12:15 15:23 19:8 24:14,19 28:17 29:6,10 31:10,23 35:6 36:16 47:1 58:3 62:4 69:11 93:19 93:21 102:6 108:1,12 115:15 133:5 147:14,15,17 148:22 149:2 149:17 150:14 151:2,10 155:4,17 159:5 164:20 169:18 172:8 174:4 181:9 185:5 186:17 190:6 198:13 200:17 203:7 203:11,14,15 205:15 thinking 87:17 thinks 27:7 99:8 204:13 third 84:10 97:23 119:7 THOMAS 2:10 2:11 3:2 thorough 113:2 113:10 180:7 Thoroughly 184:14 though 22:7 58:16 80:11 thought 19:9 32:6 39:15 83:22 84:10 162:24 189:4 thousand 76:7 thousands 63:24 64:22 three 31:15,23 34:6 50:1 54:15,18 55:2 76:18 80:6 147:2 through 24:15 45:3,5 48:13 50:18 53:11 86:8 88:1 91:9 92:21 94:4,22 95:19 97:15 101:16 104:24 105:11 109:14 117:8,11 129:8,14,20 129:20 147:1 147:2,3 148:13 156:14 158:9 170:13 171:10 180:20 195:8,14 throughout 14:21 25:12 96:22 107:19 tight 160:23 186:4 tightly 163:6 tile 148:21 152:10 tiles 41:8,14,17 147:24 148:23 149:6 time 10:111:8 11:1116:14 18:4 21:17 22:17 30:18 35:13,13 39:14 41:23 53:22 73:21 81:4 83:22 84:5 86:22 87:2,8,15,19 88:3 91:14 92:22 98:22 98:22 100:19 110:24 112:2 112:11115:9 117:15 122:6 137:4,12 146:16 175:22 181:16 182:22 190:19,24 191:7 192:13 192:24 201:21 201:24 202:3 203:13 204:14 205:23 times 31:15 93:8 108:5 146:6 197:17 199:19 today 8:22 14:9 14:11 62:22 87:20 88:12 113:8 125:15 138:23 181:20 together 134:12 154:9 157:13 160:6 169:3 185:10,24 token 35:14 told 11:11,19 12:18 13:2,18 30:14 65:11 65:24 67:13 67:15,18 69:14,22 70:16 89:12 90:19 93:17 104:18 105:23 106:8 108:4 132:22 150:1 170:20 Tom 20:11 168:1 tomorrow 88:12 tool 126:15 180:5,16,20 top 35:6 41:8 41:14 49:21 51:4 53:2 54:13 55:14 56:1,8 57:1 76:10 80:4 107:14 126:14 127:11161:2 161:11 totally 165:14 totals 72:19 touch 149:20 150:11 touching 162:21 tour 146:17 147:7 toward 172:10 tracked 114:23 tracking 114:17 115:4 117:8 trained 187:3,5 transcript 207:18 transfer 122:18 transformer 1:9 23:24 24:4 25:7 26:1 27:5 27:8 transition 74:7 transmittal 46:22,24 47:3 transmittals 47:13 transmitted 46:21 transport 196:16 197:9 198:17 199:4 200:14 transportation 1:3 19:21 21:19 51:10 51:17 52:9,12 56:20 87:22 88:2 105:2,7 113:12 117:22 119:16 129:22 139:4,14 140:8,16 141:2 142:1 144:18 146:5 148:5 152:16 164:18 179:1 199:20 treat 117:5 treatise 26:22 treatises 27:21 tree 195:7 trees 198:24 trial 1:13 35:11 205:1 tried 63:4 171:17 173:4 173:10 174:1 trigger 34:15 trouble 188:11 true 14:11,14 21:5,7 34:12 40:15 43:12 43:24 44:10 44:22 45:4 54:23 76:2 77:2,4,24 79:1 79:9,18 80:1,9 83:2,4 87:6 96:13 101:9 108:15 110:14 .. i ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60833 226 110:21111:16 128:6 152:11 158:18,19 volatilized 149:6 158:9 56:19,21 60:7 117:20 122:23 163:16 198:5 183:22 142:15 177:2 162:9,17,18 60:8 62:1,1,5 125:14,15 understand usually 115:2 191:22 165:16 171:21 62:7,10,13 129:17 138:21 15:10 17:19 116:12 Vs 1:6 174:14 185:5 64:1,4 65:8,11 162:3 173:9 33:4 57:19 UTILITY 1:3 vulcanize 180:8 190:6 202:14 65:22 71:15 177:9 188:21 70:16 104:2 U.S 3:18 11:21 vulnerable ways 43:17 72:3,21 73:16 197:7 198:12 117:23 118:4 12:8,15,21,22 33:21 103:7 176:13 74:20 75:15 207:6 126:8,24 13:5 187:6 195:4 81:17 82:9,12 try 16:10 67:2 129:6,13,23 W wear 90:9 84:16,19,24 138:23 192:14 130:15 135:6 V W 1:18 2:10,11 wearing 88:13 86:15 87:1 trying 24:13 141:19 161:23 vague 56:10 207:13 Wednesday 92:15,20 31:18 52:22 understanding 153:15 wait 45:20 204:17 93:12,13,17 70:15,17 152:8 value 131:10 65:17 175:2 week 205:20 97:20 98:15 75:16 78:13 understands 152:18 178:7 weeks 171:18 98:16,22 112:8 130:18 95:4 118:4 vapor 103:4 walk 146:19 171:20 173:8 100:21 101:2 135:10 175:7 142:18 119:4 120:6,9 WALKER 2:18 174:7 101:16,20 Tuesday understood 120:13,16,17 walls 110:17 weight 154:11 102:21104:22 203:20 204:7 30:12 131:3 120:19,22 want 23:12 170:21171:21 105:12,21 204:15 205:12 132:9 121:3,11,15 27:6,20,22 welcome 10:22 106:11 107:23 205:14,16 undoubtedly 198:16 199:4. 30:16 32:4 46:4 111:21113:22 206:4 35:12 200:14 201:6 36:21 38:14 well 11:19 13:4 115:8 124:7,8 turn 43:19 46:6 unglued 179:7 202:14,18 58:23 61:12 14:23 19:10 129:8,9,19 54:3 uniform 180:7 vaporization 65:15 66:8,15 23:12 25:11 130:1131:4 TV 37:8,9 185:1 189:8 193:1 74:12 88:9 29:10 36:8,12 136:22 139:10 two 9:6 46:21 uniformly 195:3 197:16 89:6 91:2 42:23 49:5 139:17 143:2 55:1161:12 183:7 184:14 vaporize 104:4 109:14 57:19 64:21 143:8,9,11 61:19 62:18 unique 119:1 198:21 110:8 118:6,9 72:6 77:5 146:23 147:3 73:16,20 119:20 vaporized 124:10,19 78:16 88:18 147:12,19,22 76:18 108:4 UNITED 1:6 190:24 125:1,18 90:7 100:11 148:4 150:1 117:14 164:24 units 198:6 vaporizing 128:11 129:4 101:14 117:23 150:23 151:6 165:23 166:5 universities 189:16 131:17 135:3 118:18 120:18 153:2 155:13 190:16 193:11 vapors 120:11 142:18 191:14 122:2 126:8 156:15 158:1 two-and-a-half unless 35:24 121:20 126:17 205:8 126:24 141:5 160:16 161:14 22:6 103:24 207:19 various 132:23 wanted 8:6,8 142:17 146:16 164:9 167:6 type 64:17 90:4 unplugged vary 22:22 16:19 46:1 153:11,18 170:10,13,15 101:13 102:22 37:14 VCR 183:20 60:12 98:14 154:17 155:12 170:21,24 116:24 117:3 unprotected ventilated 98:9 124:11127:23 155:17 156:14 171:9 173:17 122:3 140:1 20:22 ventilation 98:6 164:10 165:20 160:15 161:12 173:20,22 157:5 184:15 until 22:3,6 101:19 158:14 165:22 186:15 173:18 176:7 175:21 176:9 193:5 23:18 60:15 verified 80:13 206:1 179:22 183:11 178:24 179:1 types 139:17 68:2 91:18,19 verify 192:6,21 wants 68:12 185:8 188:12 179:2,20 158:18,19 187:11 203:20 versus 73:21 91:8 133:6 191:17 198:7 181:15 182:21 173:23 201:7 204:17 very 23:13 warm 100:15 198:15 182:22 185:2 typical 64:16 use 13:23 15:22 27:19 33:21 warning 136:2 went 13:1 45:3 185:22 191:4 76:18 93:1 40:11 58:17 55:17,17 wasn't 12:22 45:5 70:1 201:6 202:17 94:13 113:11 63:6 78:7 56:13 62:14 22:3,19 30:13 101:15 115:17 weren't 11:15 113:11 89:15,16 84:19 125:16 32:2 40:14 115:24 116:2 112:4 177:6 typically 26:3 101:24 107:15 125:16 148:23 69:16 79:9 134:7,12 west 2:5 74:23 56:6 73:16,19 112:6 125:18 162:15 183:2 111:20 113:11 146:14 147:6 wet 174:2,6 76:6 85:4 138:10 147:21 190:14203:2 166:2 147:7,19,20 whichever 114:17 116:15 179:17,21,22 vest 184:19 waste 73:21 148:11,19 110:9 120:15 123:13 182:13 193:3 view 36:18 126:12,12,18 149:8 150:1 while 10:24 124:6 183:15 197:6 58:12 101:22 127:6 152:20 151:13 153:3 16:15 26:10 195:10 used 12:20 views 27:18 watch 37:9 190:21 58:13 59:8 13:20 16:3 59:14 water 122:6,7 were 6:15 7:2 61:14 91:7 U ___ 17:12 50:18 visit 146:4 194:13 195:1 10:24 11:8,16 161:20 164:8 ultimate 112:21 53:11 59:10 148:7,9,10,16 197:18,21 11:17 13:19 173:16 175:2 uncertain 32:1 72:4 134:3,3 164:9 198:21 14:3 15:6,21 182:17,18 unclear 63:10 154:7 156:9 vital 36:3 way 7:4 12:18 15:24 18:1 188:6 201:23 under 10:8 72:8 167:6,6 void 120:3 18:10 27:11 22:12,13 white 3:1 47:14 83:12 89:23 170:23,24 122:5 27:13 33:13 32:12 34:11 47:17 63:3 94:6 120:21 172:3,7 volatilization 41:20 43:12 37:23 39:9,24 whole 48:13 122:5,20 178:19 180:16 145:18 195:9 43:15,20,21 42:1,11,12,13 73:13 125:3 123:18 127:6 182:15,19 198:13 201:3 52:22 66:11 42:15,16,18 169:3 191:3 127:9,14,24 187:5 191:24 203:9 85:10 95:23 43:4 44:2 45:2 wide 11:24 13:8 128:12 154:11 user 125:23 volatilize 96:14 97:11 45:14,19 46:5 14:5,12,13,20 171:21 207:19 using 46:8 82:2 193:21 194:4 102:14,16,24 46:18,20 160:1 j underneath 102:21 134:18 157:11158:17 194:9 201:11 108:23 125:19 47:14 48:1 50:16 51:1 widespread 11:23 13:7 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60834 227 14:4 15:7 WILLIAM 3:4 williams 3:1 47:15,17 63:4 winter 100:15 100:16 wipe 82:23,24 84:16,22 85:1 85:8 87:18 withdraw 17:22 30:15 69:18 withdrew 31:24 witness 8:22 9:24 10:5 24:15 26:20 27:17,23 31:13 33:18 33:20 44:10 45:23 46:5 49:18 51:15 52:3 56:17 65:23 75:14 81:22,22 99:3 115:21118:8 125:6 132:1 133:13 168:18 174:23 199:13 206:6 207:4,7 witnesses 24:14 27:16 36:15 wondering 6:15 woodyard 5:2 8:19,23 9:18 9:23 10:2,6,10 10:14,15,20 12:8 16:14 18:1,17,19 23:7 37:16 39:12 43:14 51:22 52:7 57:12 58:1 59:10 60:24 61:23 63:14 63:23 67:1 68:9 70:13 71:6,18 74:13 77:19 80:10 86:1 89:2 90:1 92:5,19 95:5 97:5 99:12 102:2 109:23 110:22 111:17 117:17 125:11 129:3,6 135:21 137:23 138:1 139:3 143:1 145:15 151:20 169:5 169:15 192:17 Woodyard's 53:20 word 13:20 67:21 68:5 197:6 words 11:12 15:2 63:5 84:23 185:2 work 8:7 20:4 24:4 60:9 64:7 zero 78:4 79:11 68:24 73:22 192:16 77:21112:19 118:19 121:9 0 121:9,10,13 124:12 143:5 151:1158:7,9 183:14 186:1 001 50:17 53:11 014 50:18 53:11 06106 3:16 200:8 203:1 worked 107:9 123:10 173:24 178:21,23 190:7,17 workers 20:4 working 164:5 198:4 works 36:10 197:16 world 11:24 13:8 14:4,12 14:13,20,21 143:4 183:14 200:21 worn 14:8 126:4 worst 189:12 189:17,22 191:16,17 wouldn't 70:11 95:10 162:4,6 165:13 167:13 198:12 201:13 wrap 160:5 wrapped 163:6 write 202:9 writing 23:20 written 12:16 27:21,22 111:19 wrong 102:17 wrongly 34:8 wrote 14:16 22:19 23:10 109:15,24 110:10 111:10 113:5 118:1 119:13,14 124:3 125:24 127:13,17 1 1:30 91:18 206:4,5 10 5:3 10's 159:21 10.2 95:1 100 20:19 21:1 93:7 95:20 96:1299:17 100:13,22 100th 189:17 190:5 191:1 1068 82:4,5 11th 74:19,21 75:2 117 111:8 118 118:22 119 112:13 114:5 116:7,8 12 186:23 120 111:7 122 116:22,22 123 2:20 1242 139:6,16 139:20 140:9 140:17 141:13 144:23 145:3 145:7,12,24 125 12:20 1254 82:18,23 82:24 84:14 84:17,19 140:12 1260 82:18,22 84:21 1262 139:5,16 139:20 140:9 140:17 141:2 141:7,12,16 141:23 142:4 142:7,9,10,19 X X 5:1 142:22 144:5 144:12,15,19 145:7,12,23 150:7 172:11 Y 128 122:13,14 year 6:12,24 13 170:12 16:21,24 22:6 136 153:7 62:18 137 5:4 174:17 years 17:4 24:4 14 96:3 104:9 41:9,14 143:3,24 103:24 111:22 15 77:8,22 124:7 143:4 79:11 96:3 182:4 183:12 111:22 124:7 yesterday 8:9 168:22 172:12 31:14 15TH 1:22 YOUNGBLOOD 15219 2:13 3:4 16 108:2,3,5 164:20 190:8 Z 190:16 1650 3:6 4:4 17.7 80:6 18 95:20 165:9 170:20 18th 3:5 95:24 1800 98:2 1880 1:22 1890 96:21 19102 3:7 19103-7397 4:5 19109 2:21 1964 168:22 170:12 172:12 1965 133:10 135:4 180:16 180:20 1966 180:16 1967 180:17 1976 11:22 1980's 111:19 1983 113:17 1985 124:16 125:15 128:21 1990 1:2 1994 19:17 21:4 21:17,23 22:13 23:15 66:2 1995 16:17 22:3 1997 146:6 1999 58:21 2 2 58:21,22 2.5 94:23 20 96:8,15 97:19 143:4 165:8 168:22 168:23 169:17 169:18 170:11 183:12 2000 1:12,17 92:19 143:2 143:21 153:7 207:14 21 3:15 215 1:24 2:22 3:8 4:6 221 2:5 24 40:22 250 108:10,14 108:17,24 190:20 2521 172:16 2581 172:3 261-6474 2:14 28 1:17 40:24 92:19 143:2 143:20 153:7 284 1:2 3 3 1:12 3,634 93:19 3.1 94:24 3.4 95:1,15 3.9 94:24 30 116:3 183:12 191:9 300 108:10 133:19 31 38:22 39:2 32 38:13 48:5 35 182:4 350 181:4 3524 18:3,12 3542 58:1 63:9 3600 93:23 97:6 3634 93:24 37 93:23 4 4.2 95:23 4.3 95:1,14 4.5 94:24 4.6 95:23 4:15 206:8 400 2:5 50:2,4 4000 53:8 93:18 4006 109:21 136:22,22,22 137:9,9,9,10 4007 53:4,7,16 53-17 21 4009 48:2,11,17 49:9,14 412 2:14 450 54:14,14 104:23 451 54:18,19 452 54:21 453 1:15 463 104:24 47 199:10,11 49 58:22,23 180:1 4900 4:3 5 5 20:19 48:4 90:21 94:19 117:14 5.3 94:24 95:22 5.4 95:22 5.5 94:24 95:22 5.6 94:23 95:22 5.8 95:22 5.9 95:14,22 50 76:7 99:14 99:19 101:3 50,000 76:14 521 85:20 6 6 207:14 6.0 95:22 6.1 94:24 6.2 94:24 95:14 63 95:22,23 6.4 94:23 95:22 6/6/92 50:18 53:12 60 76:7 60,000 76:7,8 76:15 61 143:2,14,17 143:22 64051 2:6 65 179:9 66 179:9 67 179:9 180:20 7 70 34:5 76 13:5 772-7452 2:22 8 8.2 95:8 83 95:7 816 2:7 836-5050 2:7 860-247-3666 3:17 864-7000 3:8 885 60:14,21 61:7,11 9 9:45 1:17 901 60:14,21 96 92:20 981-5770 4:6 988-9191 1:24 4 J f '# j '1 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 1 TOWOLDMONOQ60835