Document MMjvvnLRQ40qjQaBQYqYnKO7z
FILE NAME Paccar PAC DATE 1993 Aug 26
DOC PAC016
DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION Legal - Deposition of David Degenstein Rivenbark v Fibreboard Ex M
EXHIBIT M
o 6
oe
SKALC
1
IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
2
IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF ALAMEDA
3
100
4
MARY ANN RIVENBARK
5
:
Plaintiffs
6
COPY COPY
7
vs.
No. 711462-9
8 | FIBREBOARD CORPORATION ET AL
9
Defendants
10
/
11
12
13
14
DEPOSITION OF L. DEGENDS EGT ENE STIEINN
15
16
17
Taken before FRANK J. MASELLI JR
18
CSR No. 1496
19
August 26 1993
20
21
.
22
23
Aiken & Welch Inc.
Certified Shorthand Reporters
24
One Kaiser Plaza Suite 505
Oakland California 94612
25
510 451-1580
26
RECORD COP FILE
1
INDEX
2
3 | EXAMINATION BY MS JONAS
4
EXAMINATION BY MR LOMAS
,
5
6
7
EXHIBITS
8 | Exhibit A - Seven page document
9 |] Exhibit B- B- Thirteen page document
10 {| Exhibit C - Seven page document
11 | Exhibit D- D- One page document
12
Exhibit E - Ten page document
13
14
15
16 17
18 19 20
21 22 23
24
25
26
PAGE 5
12
222227 222227 222227 222227 222227
6 e
3
1 | DEPOSITION OF DAVID L. DEGENSTEIN
2
3
4
BE IT REMEMBERED that pursuant to Notice and on the
5
26th day of August 1993 commencing at the hour of 1:15
6 | p.m. in the offices of Bronson Bronson & McKinnon 505
7
Montgomery Street San Francisco California 94111-2514
8 |] before me FRANK J. MASELLI JR a Certified Shorthand
9
Reporter in and for the County of Contra Costa State of
10
California personally appeared DAVID L. DEGENSTEIN produced
11 | as a witness in said action and being by me first duly
12
sworn was thereupon examined as a witness in said cause
13
14
~7-000---
15
16
JUDY DIANE JONAS Kazan McClain Edises & Simon 171
17
Twelfth Street Third Floor Oakland California 94607
18
appeared on behalf of the Plaintiff
19
20
KENNETH E. KELLER Bronson Bronson & McKinnon 505
21
Montgomery Street San Francisco California 94111-2514
22
appeared on behalf of Defendant PACCAR Inc.
23
24
ROGER A. AGEN Dryden Margoles Schimaneck Hartman &
25 | Kelly One California Street Suite 3125 San Francisco 26 | California 94111 appeared on behalf of Defendant Ford Motor
4
1 | Company
2
3
VLADISLAV V. LUSKIN Paetzold White & Brodsky 101
4
California Street Suite 1875 San Francisco California
5 | 94111-5884 appeared on behalf of Defendant The E.J. Bartells 6 | Company
7
8
PATRICK M. HOWE Sullivan Roche & Johnson 333 Bush
9
Street San Francisco California 94104 appeared on behalf
10
of Defendant Abex Corporation
11
12
CONSTANCE NELSON Stevens Drummond & Gifford 1910
13
Olympic Blvd Suite 250 Walnut Creek California appeared on
14 | behalf of Defendant Wagner Electric Corporation
15
16
BRAD W. LOMAS Gordon & Rees 275 Battery Street 20th
17
Floor San Francisco California 94611 appeared on behalf of
18
Defendant Allied Signal
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
5
1
DAVID L. DEGENSTEIN
2
sworn as a witness by the Certified Shorthand Reporter
3
testified as follows
4
EXAMINATION BY MS JONAS
5
Q. Would you state your full name for the record
6
A.
David L. Degenstein
7
Q.
Thank you Mr. Degenstein good afternoon
8
A.
Hi
9
Q.
You're being produced here today as the custodian
10
of records for PACCAR is that correct
11
MR KELLER
I'm not sure he knows that
But he's
12 | being produced today not only as custodian of records but
13 | also as the corporate representative under 2025 on the topics
14
that you -- excuse me -- that you designated
15
I have objected to some of those and I'm not sure
16 | we ever resolved those objections But he is here to answer 17 | your questions both as the custodian and as the
18 | corporate --
19
MS JONAS Q. Okay So you're a representative
20
of PACCAR
21
A.
Yes
22
Q.
23
A.
24
Q.
25
26
weeks
Do you pronounce it PACCAR or PACCAR
PACCAR
PACCAR
Okay
Everyone has been getting it wrong for the last few
6
1
MR KELLER One other explanation When you say
2
are you a representative of he's being produced here on
3
behalf of He's not employed per se by PACCAR
4
You might want to ask him that
5
* MS JONAS
I see
6
Q.
Who do you work for
Kenworth
7
A.
Kenworth Truck Company
8
Q.-
Okay What is your position with Kenworth
9
A.
Manager of product safety and compliance
10
Q.
And how long have you been with Kenworth
11
A
Since June of 1979
12
Q.
And what was your position when you first joined
13 | Kenworth
14
A.
I was a junior design engineer
15
Q.
Have you ever given a deposition before
16
A.
Yes
17
Q.
How many times
18
A.
Eight maybe nine
19
Q.
Okay Including depositions in the last couple of
20
years
21
A.
Yes
22
Q.
All right If you have any questions about what
23
I'm getting at or don't understand my question then let me
24
know and I'll try to clarify
25
Otherwise I'll assume you understand the rules of
26
a deposition and I'll proceed
7
1
A.
Okay
2
Q.
Okay Do you have any position with the Peterbilt
3
Company
4
A.
No.
5
*
Q.
Have you ever worked for Peterbilt in any capacity
6
A.
No.
7
Q.
Do you have any position with PACCAR
8
..
No.
9
Q.
And Kenworth is a division of PACCAR is that
10 | correct
11
A.
An unincorporated division of PACCAR
12
MS JONAS Counsel are you producing the person
13 |] most knowledgeable in regards to the Peterbilt Division as
14 | well today
15
MR KELLER
No.
16
MS JONAS Do you have a reason An objection to
17 |
18
that notice MR
KELLER
No.
He's here to answer your
19 | questions He may have some knowledge about Peterbilt He
20
doesn't work for Peterbilt
21
To the extent he can answer your questions he will
22
answer your questions
23
MS JONAS
Because we have two notices
24
MR KELLER I understand
25
MS JONAS One for Peterbilt and one for the
26
Kenworth Division which I'll attach as an exhibit to the
8
1 | deposition
2
MR KELLER
As I advised your office it would be
3
essentially impossible to produce one person who could
4
testify as to Peterbilt and Kenworth
.
5
I chose to produce Mr. Degenstein here today
6
because it seemed to me that the Kenworth side of this issue
7 | was perhaps more relevant to you
-
8
time
At least at this point in
9
MS JONAS Q. So when you joined Kenworth in June
10 | of 1979 you were a junior design engineer
11
A
Yes
12
Q.
What did that involve
13
A.
I was an entry level engineer in the chassis and
14 | power train design group that was titled C500 Off highway
15
design section I believe is how it was titled
16
Q.
So you were involved in designing some portion of
17 | the trucks that were being manufactured by Kenworth
18
A.
That's correct
19
Q.
And how long did you hold that position
20
A.
Approximately until October of 1980
21
Q.
And then what was your new position
22
A.
Design engineer
23
Q.
And how long did you hold that position
24
A.
I believe until sometime in 1982
25
Q.
All right And then what
26
A.
Senior design engineer
9
1
Q.
Okay And then did that change
2
A.
Yes
3 4 5
6
Q.
At what point did you change your position
A.
September of 1987
*
Q.
And what was your new position
A.
Technical advisor to PACCAR Inc.
7
Q.
And what did that mean
8
..
I was the technical advisor to the parent company
9
of Kenworth PACCAR Inc. in their corporate law department
10
Q.
So what were your duties
11
A.
To assist the house attorneys in explaining
12
technical issues to them I reviewed some publications from
13
a technical perspective for accuracy
14
Q.
Do you have any training in law
15
A.
No.
16
Q.
Legal background
17
And then after that position did you change
18
positions again
19
A.
Yes
20
Q.
When was that
21
A.
January of 1990
22
Q.
And what was your new position
23
A.
Manager of product safety and compliance for
24
Kenworth Truck Company Current position
25
Q.
And that's your current position
26
A.
Nods head affirmatively
10
1
Q.
And in that capacity what are your
2 | responsibilities
3
A.
I manage the safety and compliance department
And
4
that particular department is assigned with the
5 | responsibility of insuring that our trucks comply with
6
federal motor vehicle safety standards and motor carrier
7
safety regulations other company industry standards
8
*
We review Kenworth product designs from a safety
9
perspective We act as sort of an house liaison group to
10
the design engineering department in giving advice on
11
particular designs
12
I'm on the engineering review committee which
13
reviews proposals to change the Kenworth product I also act
14 | as the company representative in product liability lawsuits
15
Q.
So then have you been produced in a capacity
16
similar to what you're doing here today as -- in depositions
17
on behalf of the company
18
A.
Yes
19
Q.
All right And all the other depositions that you
20
described you've been testifying in a similar capacity as
21
you are today As a corporate representative of Kenworth
22
A.
I believe so
I don't know
23
24
guess
MR KELLER If you know If you don't know don't
25
THE WITNESS I don't know if they all have been as
26
a company representative
11
1
MS JONAS Q. Have you testified in any asbestos
2
litigation before today
3
A.
No.
4
Q.
Have you testified in any depositions in which the
5
focus was the brakes that were used in Kenworth trucks
6
MR KELLER When you say the focus was the brakes
7
you mean the performance of them as opposed to perhaps
8
manufacture type composition
9
MS JONAS That's a good -- that's a good point
10
MR KELLER The only reason I asked there could
11 | be allegations of brake failure which I'm not sure you're
12
interested in
13
MS JONAS Right
14
Q.
Outside of brake failure cases where the focus was
15
on the manufacture of the brake products or the composition
16
materials contained in the products
17
A.
Not that I recall no
18
Q.
When was the Kenworth Company first incorporated
19
MR KELLER Let me object That assumes a fact
20
not in evidence He told you it not incorporated
21
MS JONAS Q. It's unincorporated
22
A.
That's correct it's unincorporated
23
Q.
Can you describe the beginning of the company
24
A.
Kenworth I believe began in the 1920's a company
25 | started out as the Gersick's Truck Company It was then 26 | some where in the late 20's I believe it was renamed to the
12
1
Kenworth Motor Truck Company
2
I believe it was 1945 Pacific Car and Foundry
3
purchased the Kenworth Truck Company
4
Q.
What year was that
*
5
A.
I believe it was 1945.
And --
6
Q.
Was Pacific Car already in the trucking business at
7
that time as far as you know
8
A. Pacific Car and Foundry was in -- was in -- yes
9
the trucking business They manufactured some components for
10
railroad cars and other type of vehicles like that
I
11 | believe logging type vehicles
12
Q.
Okay And then since that time has Kenworth
13
remained as an unincorporated division of Pacific Car
14
A.
Pacific Car and Foundry was changed to PACCAR in
15
1971. When PACCAR -- Pacific Car and Foundry I believe
16
incorporated and changed its name to PACCAR Inc. in 1971
17
With regard to Kenworth the -- there was no
18 | change or what influence that had I don't know
19
Q.
And what kind of trucks does Kenworth make
20
A.
We manufacture what's called Class 8 trucks
21
Q.
And are those the big rig trucks you see on the
22 | street
23
A.
A Class 8 truck is one with a gross vehicle weight
24
rating of thirty thousand and one pound and above
25
Q.
Is that the largest type of truck that's
26 | manufactured Largest class
e@
@
e
13
1
A.
Of those that have a class designation that I'm
2
aware of yes
3
Q.
And do you manufacture any other classes of trucks
4
or any other --
*
5
A.
We manufacture a Class 7 truck as well And
6
sometimes the weight rating of that truck brings it to a
7
Class 6
8
Q.-
Has Kenworth ever manufactured automobiles
9
A.
No.
10
Q.
Or any other vehicles
11
A
I believe at one time they manufactured buses
12
Q.
What is the relationship between Kenworth and
13
Peterbilt
14
A.
Peterbilt is an unincorporated division of PACCAR
15
Inc. that they're also a Class 8 truck manufacturer
16
Building some Class 6 and Class 7 as well
17
Q.
And are your operations merged in any way with
18
Peterbilt
19
MR KELLER Let me just object Question is vague
20
and ambiguous I'm not sure what you mean by operations
21 | merged
22
MS JONAS Q. Do you share any staff between the
23
two divisions
24
A.
I don't know
25
Q.
Well are the divisions physically located in the
26
same premises
14
1
A.
No.
II II II guess to -- the reason I say I don't
2
know is if -- if there's some sharing of some corporate
3
functions for the two divisions I don't know
4
There may be corporate accounting for example but
5 |] no Peterbilt Motor Company division office is presently
6
located in Newark California and -- at this time as well
7
as relocating to Denton Texas
8
And Kenworth Division headquarters is in Kirkland
9
Washington
10
MR KELLER
I assume when you asked your question
11
about the overlap of operations are you talking down at the
12
engineering design --
13
MS JONAS At any level really
14
MR KELLER Well I think --
15
MS JONAS Just trying to figure out the
16
relationship
17
MR KELLER I think that's the problem with your
18
question which is at the higher levels corporate
19
management
,
accounting law there may be some overlap
20
MS JONAS Q. Is that your understanding
21 | Mr. Degenstein
22
A.
If -- there is for instance a PACCAR Law
23
Department There is no Kenworth Law Department or Peterbilt
24
Law Department And I know that all of litigation goes
25
through Paccar's Law Department
26
Q.
Okay Okay Are there other parent corporate
@ @
15
1
offices that basically service the two divisions like the Law
2 Department
3
A. Today
4
Q.
Yes today that you're aware of
5
A. Yes
6
Q.
What would those be
7
A.
There is corporate purchasing corporate supply or
8
quality I guess based upon the way the question was phrased
9
the corporate administration I guess services both
10
divisions the executive levels
11
Q.
Of all the trucks that are out there today is
12
PACCAR the biggest manufacturer of large trucks in the
13 | country today
14
A.
By biggest do you mean the largest number
15
Q.
Yeah Largest number
16
A.
No.
17
Q.
Which company is
18
A.
It either Freightliner or Navastar
19
Q.
Now where would PACCAR come in the lineup if you
20 | know between you know Mack and Freightliner Navastar
21
International
22
A.
PACCAR combined Peterbilt and Kenworth is number
23
three
24
Q.
And how long has that been true
25
A.
I believe for the last year or two
26
Q.
I want to go through our notice for this
16
1 | deposition We're going to do a combined deposition records
2
for custodian of records and person most knowledgeable with
3
--
your
4
MR KELLER Fine
--
5
MS JONAS
agreement
6
Q.
So it will just be captioned for both And I want
7
to ask you first in your capacity as a custodian of records
8
for the Kenworth Division of PACCAR whether or not you
9
conducted a search for the following records
10
And then I'll ask you questions about the search
11
and what documents you're producing if any in response to
12
this
13
Do you have a copy of the notice
14
MR KELLER
I don't
15
MS JONAS You can show him as I go through this
16
MR KELLER
You want want me to make a copy
17
Discussion held off the record
18
MS JONAS Then we'll make an exhibit too so
19 | might as well make some extras
20
Short recess taken
21
MS JONAS Q. So if you look on page two of the
22
deposition notice it lists the various items that we had
23
asked to be produced at this time
24
The Item 1 could you take a look at that
25
A.
Witness complies
26
Q.
These will be attached as an exhibit
I'm not
17
1 | going to read everything on the notice
2
Do you have any documents responsive to that
3
request here today
4
MR KELLER Just for the record I would state
5
that we objected to certain of these items in these
6 | categories
7
I don't want to belabor the objections with
8 | reference now I assume they're incorporated by reference
9
MS JONAS Certainly That's fine
10
THE WITNESS Excuse me Could I have the question
11 | again-
12
MS JONAS Q. Sure What I'm going to do is just
13
go through to make it go faster if we could I'm going to
14 | go through each of the items on our deposition notice and ask
15
you if you have any documents that you're producing today
16
that are responsive to that request
17
A. Okay
18
Q.
So if you could just read the category and then
19 | tell me if any of the documents that you produced are
20
responsive to that request
21
So on Item 1 on page 2 - actually which one do
22 | you have in front of you
23
MR KELLER He has Kenworth
24
MS JONAS You have Kenworth Okay
25
MR KELLER If you know
26
THE WITNESS No.
18
1
MS JONAS Q. You're not producing any documents
2
MR KELLER
That assumes there are any
3
MS JONAS Q. Did you conduct a search for any
4 | documents responsive to this request
5
.. To number one
6
Q.
Yes
7
A.
Yes I did
8
Q.
And can you tell me how you went about doing that
9
A.
I spoke with individuals in the Engineering
10
Department at Kenworth and other departments at Kenworth
11
that were employed as near as I could recall back in the
12
50's or 1960's And tried to get some information from --
13
from them
14
Went through the Kenworth Engineering what we call
15
the checkout book for signing out drawings specifications
16 | and things like that and reviewed that those books under
17
categories having to do with brakes and axles and those
18
components
19
Q.
All right And how far back does that log date
20
A.
I don't know when the date of the log begins The
21
early entries are not dated Based upon the drawings that
22 | are listed in there it dates before 1950
23
Q.
Are you aware of any asbestos containing products
24
that were part of any Kenworth trucks
25
A.
From 19 -- from --
26
Q.
From 1950 to the present
19
1
A.
Yes
2
Q.
And that would be brakes brake linings
3
A.
Brake linings
4
Q.
And clutch pads
5
A. I don't know
6
Q.
Okay Any other materials that were asbestos
7 | containing that were used in Kenworth trucks in 1950 on
8
A.-
No. Not that I know of
9
Q.
Are you producing any documents responsive to the
10
second
request
? Item
number
2 on page ?
11
A.
Yes
12
Q.
And what documents are you producing today
13
A.
The documents that -- what we at Kenworth would
14
term axle specifications sheets
15
Q.
Okay Okay
16
Could you identify those for me
17
A.
Witness indicates
18
Q.
Just tell me what that is
19
A.
The axle specification sheets
20
Q.
Okay And let's make this Exhibit B to the
21
deposition And what is the date of that document
22
A.
There's several dates Each document has it's own
23 | date
24
Q.
Okay So this is a group exhibit
25
MR KELLER Yeah This was compiled by my office
26 | stapled in this fashion It's not the way in which they're
20
1
kept
2
MS JONAS
I see
3
MR KELLER These are the same type of documents
4
but for different days
.
5
MS JONAS
I see
6
Q.
Are these all business records kept within the
7 | Kenworth Division
8
A.
Yes
9
8
Okay And when you went through your files you
10 { located these records responsive to this request
11
A
That's correct
12
Q.
And you indicated this is not just one document
13 | but a series of documents from different periods of time is
14
that right
15
A.
That's correct
I'm -- each page is an individual
16 | document that exists on its own So for example the top
17 | one there is axle spec 105 and it was dated February
18
26 1950
19
And the second one was listed would be 113
20
and it would have it's own date And so on all through the
21
pile
22
Q.
And are these the different specifications for the
23 | Class 8 trucks starting in 1950 in terms of the brake and
24
clutch assemblies
25
A.
No. These are axle specifications
26
Q.
But the axle specifications include information as
21
1
to the brake and clutch assembly
2
A.
The axle specification includes information with
3
regard to brakes but it does not include information
4
regarding clutches
>
5
Q.
Okay Did you find any other documents that are
6
responsive to this request
7
A.
There's an axle chart 1859
8
Q.1
Let's go ahead and mark that as Exhibit C to the
9 deposition
10
This second document you've identified we've now
11
marked as Exhibit C to the deposition is specifications
12
relating to Timken axles from 1950
13
MR KELLER
No.
I think the one we've marked as
14 | Exhibit C is the one that has 1965 Timken axles That one
15
has not been marked yet That was on the back of the
16
document separate So --
17
MS JONAS Okay
18
Whereupon a seven page document the cover sheet
19
entitled Amended Notice of Taking Deposition of PACCAR
20
Inc.'s person most knowledgeable and custodian of records
21 | was marked as Exhibit A.
22
Whereupon a thirteen page document the cover
23
sheet entitled Kenworth Motor Truck Corp. Seattle U.S.A.
24
was marked as Exhibit B.
25
Whereupon a seven page document the cover sheet
26
entitled 1965 Timken Axles was marked as Exhibit C.
22
1
MS JONAS Q. And what information is contained
2
on Exhibit C the 1965 Timken axles document
3
A.
It's an axle chart that specifies an axle model
4
and then tells what size of brakes were on that axle
5
Q. What about this document that's identified 1950-51
6
Timken axle
7
A.
This is an earlier chart It is similar to the
8
Exhibit C.
It just covers the time period 1950 to 1951.
It
9
also is an axle chart of Timken axles and lists a particular
10
brake size
11
MR LOMAS Would that be Exhibit D then
12
MS JONAS Yes That's Exhibit D. Thanks Yes
13
Next in line
14
Whereupon a one page document entitled 1950-1951
15
Timken Axles was marked as Exhibit D.
16
MS JONAS Q. Were you able to locate any other
17
documents responsive to that request No. ?
18
A.
No.
19
Q.
Can you describe the search that you conducted to
20
obtain documents responsive to this request
21
MR KELLER I think he already did But tell her
22
again unless it's different
23
THE WITNESS
No.
I pulled the book that's used to
24
check out drawing numbers engineering specification numbers
25
and looked up a particular number that was in the book
26
Went over had to pull the microfilm card looked at
23
1
the microfilm card to see what it was -- what the particular
2
chart or specification was about if it dealt with the axles
3
or not
4
And then if it did made a copy of it If it
5
didn't just put it back in the drawer
6
MS JONAS Q. What is your corporate retention
7 policy
8
A.-
For any particular document or --
9
Q.
Just what's your general policy
10
MR KELLER
If you have one
11
THE WITNESS Well we have a policy but the
12 | retention is dependent upon what type of document you have
13 | Engineering drawings and specifications like these are kept
14 | as near as I can tell since -- they go back to day one
15
I believe dealer agreements which is another
16 | document that I think we'll talk about later I believe the
17
retention policy is seven or eight years
18
So it depends on what type of document what
19 {| category it goes into
20
MS JONAS Q.
Well what about documents that
21
would describe the -- parts that are used in the manufacture
22 | of Kenworth trucks
23
MR KELLER
I think he's answered your question as
24 | to brakes Now you want to know just about parts in general
25
MS JONAS Q. Well if you were to obtain a brake
26 | from a particular manufacturer would you keep the
24
1
specifications from that manufacturer as a matter of
2 corporate policy indefinitely
3
A.
If it's in the form of the -- like for example
4
this an axle specification and on this specification it
5
will say what brakes were supplied with the axle to Kenworth
6
Q.
But that's a Kenworth document What I'm asking
7
you about is whether or not you have documents concerning the
8
product the brake products that you're using on the Kenworth
9 | trucks documents which were produced by the manufacturer of
10
the brakes or the brake linings
11
A
So if I understand you you would mean for
12 |
13
example Q.
a Timken document Sure A Timken document
for example
14
A.
Well don't -- we don't have any
With regard to
15
the retention policy it doesn't cover that document because
16
it's not a PACCAR
document
or a Kenworth
Kenworth
.
17
Q.
So then all -- any material that you might have had
18
at one time regarding the Timken products have now been
19 | destroyed
20
MR KELLER
I think that misstates his testimony
21
I think he said that they don't receive those types of
22 |] documents I may be wrong
23
You can answer the question
24
THE WITNESS Well I -- I couldn't say that
25
they've been destroyed because I don't know if we received
26 | them
25
1
All I can say is when I went and asked -- those
2 | type of documents fall into an individual's file for
3
example so you would go and you would ask someone in the
4
rear axle group and you would say Do you have a Timken
5
file and they would say No or they would say It's
6
under T.
7
MS JONAS Q. Did you do that
8
A.
And I would go to the T and look under there and
9
there was no Timken file Now whether they had one before
10 | that I don't know I don't know if they had one to destroy
11
or not
12
Q.
Did you do that Did you go to the axle division
13 | and ask them if there were Timken documents
14
A.
I went to the -- the rear suspension rear axle
15 | group
Kenworth
that's within
Kenworth Truck Company
16
Q.
Who's in charge of that
, yes
17
A. Today
18
Q.
Yes
19
A.
Jim Leasner
20
Q.
How long has he had that position
21
A.
I believe about three months
22
Q.
And who was in charge before that
23
A.
Brian Lengrin
24
Q.
And how long was he in that job
25
A.
I want to say about a year
26
Q.
Okay Did anybody hold that job throughout the
26
1
relevant period of time here 1950's 1960's who's still
2 | with the company
3
A.
No.
4
Q.
Did you do anything else in your search that you
5
haven't already described in effort to obtain documents
6
responsive to request No. ?
7
A.
Other than going to the departments talking to
8
individuals looking at their files and going through the
9 | engineering drawings and the checkout books that's pretty
10 | much everything that was done that I can recall
11
Q
And do you have any documents responsive to request
12 | No. ?
13
MR KELLER Let me just state for the record
14 | this I one I think I do have to state the over breath of this
15 | request is to me incredible
16
Any document regarding any relationship between
17 | Kenworth and any other entity
18
him begin to look for that
I wouldn't know where to have
19
And so therefore I instructed him as I was
20 | objecting to it not to look for that I don't know what you
21 | want there
22
If you could be more specific I would certainly
23
allow him to tell you what he's done But -- that's
24 |) basically all the document --
25
MS JONAS You're representing he did nothing
26 | responsive
27
1
MR KELLER That's basically all the documents in
2
the company That's everything So I did not tell him to
3
look for everything
4
MS JONAS Q. Under item 4 do you have any
5
documents responsive to that request
6
A.
I believe that the dealer agreement --
7
Q.
Okay
8
A.
-- is the only document
9
MR KELLER And again I did -- let me state for
10 | the record I did object to this on cause for the extent you
11 | were asking for any document regarding business activity
12
between PACCAR and Kenworth and Peterbilt that could be an
13
incredible number of documents
I did not believe that's
14
what you were looking for
15
I instructed him to look for dealership agreements
16
for documents pertaining to the relationship between PACCAR
17
Kenworth Peterbilt and these other entities
18
MS JONAS Go ahead and have the dealer agreement
19
marked as Exhibit E.
20
Whereupon a ten page document entitled on the
21
cover sheet Dealer Agreement was marked as Exhibit E.
22
MS JONAS Q. So if I understand the -- your
23
testimony and the statements of your counsel there are
24
additional documents regarding business activity between
25 | PACCAR and Jenkins and Kenworth but you were instructed --
26
MR KELLER That's not what I said What I said
28
1
was there are obviously thousands if not hundreds of
2
thousands
thousands
documents
of
documents that detailed the business
3 | relationship between PACCAR and Kenworth and PACCAR and
4
Peterbilt since those are unincorporated divisions of
*
5
PACCAR
6
And the way your request is phrased those
7 | documents would come within that I certainly did not tell
8 | him to go look at each and every document to get the 9 | relationship between PACCAR Kenworth and Peterbilt
10
But what I told him was to go and look for other
11 | documents which would be outside of that To the extent --
12
if you want every document relating to business activity
13 | between PACCAR Kenworth and Peterbilt I have objected and
14
if the court orders me to do it I'll do it
15
But I can't believe that's what you're looking for
16
MS JONAS Q. So in your search for documents
17
responsive to request No. 4 did you do anything other that
18
what you've described previously to obtain documents
19
relevant to that request
20
A.
No. The process is the same See the dealer
21
agreements are just kept in a different location And the
22 | dealers agreement
document
is the
that exists for the
23
business relationship between J.T. Jenkins and PACCAR or
24
Kenworth
25
And I believe this one is the -- is the --what --what do
26 | I want to say The oldest one that we have or possibly the
@
)
.
@
29
1
newest one
2
I was mentioning earlier the retention policy for
3
dealer agreements is different from what we have for
4 engineering drawings
5
This is the only dealer agreement copy that we have
6
still on file
7
Q.
Is Inland Kenworth -- does that have any
8
relationship to your company
9
A.
Inland Kenworth is a Kenworth dealer is a current
10
Kenworth dealer
11
Q
And are you familiar with the fact that Inland
12 | Kenworth took over Jenkins
13
A.
I'm aware of the fact that the J.T. Jenkins
14 | dealership -- I believe their locations became Inland
15
Kenworth or were purchased by -- by Inland
16
Q.
Do you know where Inland Kenworth is located
17
Corporate headquarters
18
A.
I believe it's a Canadian company They were --
19
Inland Kenworth there's a dealership in British Columbia
20
and they expanded into -- into California
21
So I believe that their headquarters is in Canada
22
Q.
Does PACCAR have any ownership interest in Inland
23
Kenworth
24
A.
No.
25
Q.
It's not a division of PACCAR
26
A.
No.
r r)
31
1
breath or over breath as to certain of these specific
2
categories
3
THE WITNESS Okay
4
MS JONAS Q. Do you believe that you're the
5
person most knowledgeable to testify as to each of the items
6
listed you just reviewed or is there somebody else within
7
Kenworth or PACCAR who you believe would be better qualified
8
to address these topics
9
A.
No. I believe I'm probably the most qualified to
10
address the topics
11
Q.
All right And why do you believe you're the most
12
qualified to address the company's design and manufacturing
13
of items dating back to 1950
14
A.
Based upon the investigation that I've done in
15 | response to the request and just what I've learned going
16
back through the documents
17
Q.
Now you indicated earlier that you had gone to
18
some other people within the company to find out information
19
about what was going on in the 50's and 60's
20
Who did you talk to
21
A.
Wendell Amburgey
23
Q.
How do you spell that last name
23
A.
m
24
Q.
And where is he located
25
A.
In Kirkland Washington
26
Q.
And what is his position
30
1
MR KELLER If you'd look at the dealership
2
agreement that we produced this is the one that I think
3
talks about the change from J.T. Jenkins to --
4
MS JONAS
To Inland
*
5
MR KELLER
Inland Kenworth
6
MS JONAS hum affirmative
7
Q.
So what is the relationship if any between Inland
8 Kenworth Inc. and Kenworth Trucking Company
9
MR KELLER I think he's already answered that
10
THE WITNESS They're an independent Kenworth
11
dealer
12
MS JONAS Q. So Kenworth make the trucks and 11
13
Kenworth Truck Company makes the trucks and Inland Kenworth
14
Inc. sells them as a dealer
15
A.
No. Kenworth Truck Company manufacturers the truck
16
and sells it --
17
Q.
To Inland Kenworth
18
A.
To Inland Kenworth
19
Q.
Okay Let me go down to the list of items at the
20
bottom of the page I want you to just first preview the
21
four items that were -- that were listed here under the
22
person most knowledgeable notice
23
A.
Witness complies
24
MR KELLER While he's doing that anticipating
25
your question let me just make the same objections that I
26
either made in writing or stated on the record as to the
32
1
A.
I believe his job title is senior engineering
2
supervisor
3
Q.
And how long has he been with the company
4
A.
I believe he told me 1962
5
Q.- And who else did you talk to
6
A.
Gary Ziebell 1-1
7
Q.
And is he also with the Kirkland office
8
A.
Yes he is
9
Q.
And what is his position
10
A.
Specifications engineer
11
Q.
And how long has he been with the company
12
A.
I believe he said 1956
13
Q.
And who else did you talk to
14
A.
Carl Fisher
15
Q.
Is that e
16
A.
I don't know
17
Q.
And what's his position
18
A.
Western Region Parts Manager
19
Q.
Parts
20
A.
Parts
21
Q.
Okay And how long has he been with the company
22
A.
1957
23
Q.
Okay And who else did you contact
24
A.
That's all
25
Q.
As I understand it the Kenworth trucks back in
26
the 1950's primarily used Timken brake parts is that right
33
1
MR KELLER
Let me object
Assumes facts not in
2 | evidence I don't know how he can comment upon your
3
understanding
4
MS JONAS
Q.
Is that correct
5
A. I don't know
6
Q.
You don't know which brake products were used in
7
the Kenworth trucks in the 1950's
8
MR KELLER Let me object That wasn't your
9
question Your question was something about predominant or
10
used most
11
MS JONAS Q. Do you know which brake products
12
were used in the Kenworth trucks in the 1950's
13
MR HOWE I'll object Vague as to used
14
MR LOMAS Join
15
THE WITNESS If you're asking for which -- a
16 | percentage or what the quantities were of a particular brake
17
product I don't know
18
MS JONAS Q. Okay Well which manufacturer
19
supplied the brake parts for Kenworth trucks during the
20
1950's
21
A.
The -- the brakes were part of the axles and the
22
axle suppliers were Timken and Eaton
23
Q.
And did Eaton supply any of the axles for the Class
24
8 trucks
25
A.
Yes
26
Q.
And Timken supplied the axles for Class 8 trucks
34
1
and other classes well Or just class ?
2
A.
Just Class 8. It -- in those days I don't believe
3
Kenworth manufactured Class 7 or Class 6 trucks That's only
4 | been recently in the 1980's
5
Q. And did the axles come with the brake parts already
6
on them
7
A.
Yes
8
Q. As far as you know were all of those parts parts
9
that were manufactured by the supplier that is Timken the
10
axle supplier
11
In other words did Timken get any other parts from
12
any companies or did they manufacture all the components of
13 | the axles themselves
14
MR LOMAS Objection
Calls for speculation
15
THE WITNESS
Based on the records that Kenworth
16
has it appears that some of the components were manufactured
17
or supplied by entities different than Timken or Eaton
18
MS JONAS Q. Did Timken make brake shoes and
19
brake linings
20
A.
I don't know
21
Q.
Well I take it that the axles that arrived from
22
Timken had brake shoes and brake linings attached already
23
A.
That's correct
24
Q.
And those came directly from Timken
25
A. Yes Or --
26
Q.
Or Eaton
35
1
A.
Or through a distributor They were a Timken axle
2 | How they got to Kenworth I don't know for sure
3
Q.
Do you know who the distributor was of Timken axles
4
in the 1950's
5
A. I don't know if they had a distributor I'm just
6
saying I don't know how they got from Timken to Kenworth
7
They're a Timken name axle
8
Q.
And approximately what percentage of the axles that
9
Kenworth used during the 1950's came from Timken as compared
10
to Eaton
11
MR KELLER
I think that's been asked and
12
answered
13
THE WITNESS I don't have any record of the
14 percentage
15
MS JONAS Q. Well from having talked to the
16
various individuals who have been with the company over the
17 | years do they have any information about that
18
MR LOMAS Object to the form
19
THE WITNESS The only comment that was made by one
20 | individual was that the Timken axles were more popular on the
21 | West Coast and Eaton axles were more popular on the East
22 | Coast
23
Timken on the West Coast Eaton on the East Coast
24
I hope I said that right
25
MS JONAS Q. Eaton is
26
A.
That's what confuses me
36
1
Q.
Was that Mr. Ziebell who told you that
2
A.
Mr. Ziebell said that yes
3
Q.
Ziebell Okay
4
Now Kenworth had very strict specifications for
5 | what the axles had to look like for there trucks correct
6
MR KELLER I'll object The question is vague
7
and ambiguous
.
-
8
THE WITNESS
I guess I would say no
9
MS JONAS
Q.
Well
the
-
no
there were no
10
specifications for the axle components
,
11
MR KELLER That's a different question It's
12
argumentative You said very strict before
13
MR LOMAS Join
14
THE WITNESS You said they were strict
15
specifications that Kenworth had for axles
16
MS JONAS Q. Yes
17
A.
And I said no Kenworth had specifications for the
18
axles Kenworth didn't necessarily control the design of the
19 | axles
20
This axle commonly would be sold to other truck
21 | manufacturers as well and Kenworth didn't control the
22
specifications of that axle
23
But we do have axle specifications that list what
24
some of those parts are on them
25
Q.
And in those specifications are there indications
26 | of-- of-- are there specifications for the brake component as
37
1
well
2
A.
The brake -- the brake is specified but a
3
specification of the brake isn't specified I guess to be
4 | clear it's - it just lists for example a size of a brake
5 | but it doesn't tell you a lot of detail
6
In other words you couldn't manufacture a brake
7
from the information that Kenworth has listed on its
8
specifications
9
Maybe it would help --
10
MR KELLER Wait Before you do that her
11 | question was did it specify the composition of the brake
12
MS JONAS No. That wasn't my question
13
MR KELLER
Yeah
It was actually
14
MS JONAS I don't recall asking that one but
15 |] that's a good one too Before we get there why don't we --
16
MR KELLER Not that it's a good one You asked
17
did it specify such things as the composition of the brake
18
That was your question
19
MS JONAS Q. What I would like you to do is
20 | point to the section of this document which is marked as
21
Exhibit B in which the brakes --
22
MR KELLER Just for the record I know she
23 | doesn't mean to mislead you but you really do need to listen
24
to the question and answer the one she asks
25
MS JONAS
Q.
-- in which the brake parts are
26 | specified
38
1
A.
Do you want me to point out a brake part
2
Q.
Yes
If you would
3
A.
On specification R22 it lists a brake part
4 | It's the second second or possibly third item down That
5 | says number 35815 and 16 malleable brake shoe assemblies 6 | roller design Sixteen and half by seven by three
7 | quarter air brakes That is a brake part
8
Q.
Does that brake specification include any
9 | specifications about the brake linings
10
A.
I think that the problem I have in answering your
11
question is that your I guess you call this a specification
12 | And to me it's specifying as I said earlier it's -- it
13 | specifies a brake but it's not specifying all of the
14 | components to be able to build the part
15
Q.
Sure I understand
16
In other words it says that this -- that any brake
17
that is of this size would be acceptable that meets these
18
dimensions and is a roller design
19
A.
No. I don't believe that's what it's saying
20
Q.
Do you want to clarify
21
MR KELLER No. You've answered her question
22
MS JONAS Q. Well this is -- this is a Kenworth
23 | document which indicates what brake shoe assembly can go into
24
a Kenworth truck is that right
25
A.
No.
26
Q.
No. Okay Well then I apparently have not
39
1
followed you
2
A.
This is an axle specification and all it does is
3
it lists the parts that are -- and it doesn't list all of the
4 | parts
>
5
It lists some of the parts that go to make up an
6 | Eaton 22501 rear axle
7
MR KELLER I think the confusion is arising out
8
of your use of the word specification
9
MS JONAS Yeah
10
MR KELLER And he's used the word specifies
11 | That's what he's changed it to list --
12
MS JONAS Sure That's good
13
MR KELLER You're asking if this is a
14
specification from Kenworth It's not
15
MS JONAS
Yeah
I think I follow you now
16
Q.
So the axle arrives and basically this is a list of
17
what is on the axle
18
A.
But it's -- it's not a list --
19
Q.
Of some of the things
20
A.
Of everything
21
Q.
Of some of the things
22
A.
It is just a list of parts
23
Q.
Do you know the names of any manufacturers of brake
24
linings or brake shoes that were used on the axles of
25
Kenworth trucks in the 1950's other than Timken
26
A.
Yes
40
1
Q.
Who would that be
2
A.
Raybestos American Brake Block
3
Q.
Any others
4
A.
No.
5
Q.- And how do you know that Raybestos supplied some of
6 | the brake linings to Kenworth Truck
7
A.
It's listed on an axle specification
8
Q. Okay Where's the specification number
9
A.
It's in the lower right and the upper right hand
10
corner
11
Q.
179 Is that the specification you're
12 | referring to
13
A.
That specification lists a brake lining Raybestos
14
Manhattan brake lining
15
Q.
And is there another specification here that lists
16
an American Brake Block lining
17
A.
Yes
18
Q.
Which one was that
19
A.
172
20
Q.
Okay I see that American Brake Block
21
And what percentage of the linings on the Kenworth
22
trucks in the 50's came from Raybestos
23
A.
I don't know
24
Q.
What percentage came from American Brake Block
25
MR HOWE Vague as to the type of axle you're
26
talking about
41
1
THE WITNESS
I don't know
2
MS JONAS Q. And were there other manufacturers
3 | other than these two companies for the brakes linings
4
MR LOMAS Objection Asked and answered Vague
5
MS JONAS Q. In the 1950's
6
A.
Not that I know of
7
Q.
Is it your belief from having discussed this issue
8 | with the other individuals within Kenworth and reviewing the
9
records that Raybestos and American Brake Block supplied
10
most of the linings that were used on the Kenworth trucks in
11
the 1950's
12
A.
No.
13
Q.
But you don't know who did
14
MR LOMAS Assumes facts not in evidence
15
THE WITNESS I don't understand your question
16
MS JONAS Q. What I'm trying to get at is you
17
know you indicated that there are two companies who you know
18
for sure supplied brake linings
19
And you don't know what percentage of the trucks
20
you ended up using these linings It sounds like these were
21 | used on a few different axle assemblies but not necessarily
22
on all
23
And I'm wondering whether you know which brake
24
linings were used on the other axle assemblies
25
MR LOMAS Asked and answered
26
THE WITNESS
I don't know that there are other
42
1
axle assemblies And your earlier question though was
2 | asking -- asked me about the conversations with the other
3 | individuals if they said that it was only Raybestos and
4 | American Brake Block And they didn't say that it was
5
MS JONAS Q. Did they indicate that there were
6
other companies supplied brake linings
7
MR LOMAS Asked and answered
8
THE WITNESS They mentioned one other brake
9
manufacturer but they didn't know the time period
10
MS JONAS Q. Who was that
11
A
Bendix
12
Q.
Again is that Mr. Ziebell
13
A.
No.
14
Q.
Who was that
15
A.
Mr. Amburgey
16
Q.
Mr. Amburgey Okay
17
Did Mr. Amburgey indicate that the Bendix linings
18 | were being used at any time in the 1960's
19
A.
He didn't know
20
Q.
What did he say exactly if you can recall about
21 |] the Bendix linings
22
A.
He said that Bendix supplied brakes and that they
23
had developed a wedge type brake
24
Q.
And were those wedge type brakes -- did those wedge
25
type brakes satisfy the -- you're not going to like this word
26 | ~~ the specification for -- let me ask it a different way
43
1
2
word
MR KELLER You were right I didn't like that
3
MS JONAS Q. Could those wedge type brakes be
4
used on the Kenworth axles that were part of the Kenworth
5
trucks in the 1950's
6
MR LOMAS Objection to form Speculation
7
THE WITNESS
I don't know
8
MS JONAS
9 | brake linings --
10
MR LOMAS
Q. Does Kenworth currently use Bendix
Irrelevant
11
MS JONAS
Q.
-- on Kenworth trucks
12
A.
Not that I know of
13
Q.
So then they did for awhile and then stopped using
14
them
15
MR LOMAS Misstates prior testimony Irrelevant
16
THE WITNESS The only thing that I know is what
17
Mr. Amburgey said and that's it That they manufacture a
18
wedge type brake or they developed a wedge type brake and
19
that's it
.
20
MS JONAS Q. Were you able to locate any
21
documents pertaining to the brake linings supplied by Bendix
22
to Kenworth
23
A.
No.
24
Q.
If you were to search for documents in that
25
category how would you go about doing it
26
MR LOMAS Objection Assumes he didn't already
44
1
do that
2
THE WITNESS I would go through axle
3
specifications similar to what was done here
4
MS JONAS Q. From looking at these axle
5
specifications and if I understand your prior testimony
6 | some of the specifications don't list all of the parts is
7
that correct
8
A. The axle specification doesn't list every part that
9 | goes to make up a rear axle
10
8
And some of these specifications don't identify the
11
manufacturer of the brake linings that were used on the axle
12
A.
That's correct
13
Q.
If I wanted to know who supplied the brake linings
14
for the other axles where it's not indicated in the
15
specifications how could I find that out
16
MR KELLER From Kenworth you mean
17
THE WITNESS I don't believe you could
18
MS JONAS Q. Why is that
19
A.
Because I don't believe we know All we know is
20
what's on the axle specification chart with regard to what
21 | components were on that axle
22
If the specification chart doesn't say whose brake
23
it was Kenworth won't know
24
Q.
Well did -- when you manufactured a truck and it
25
was delivered to a dealer was the truck accompanied by
26 | product information information about the truck
45
1
MR LOMAS Calls for speculation
2
MR HOWE Ambiguous
3
THE WITNESS Any kind of documentation
4
accompanying the truck
5
MS JONAS Q. Right
6
MR LOMAS Vague as to time period too
7
MR KELLER
Can we take a brake
8
Short recess taken
9
MR KELLER Was there a question pending- pending-
10
Record read
11
THE WITNESS Are you talking at any time period
12
MS JONAS Q. Yes
13
A.
For example today
14
Q.
Well obviously mostly interested in what has gone
15
on historically in the 1950's and 60's But if you're
16
practice has changed over the years then you should let me
17 know
18
MR KELLER I object Question is vague and
19 | ambiguous and overbroad
20
You can answer if you can
21
THE WITNESS I don't know what documentation was
22 | supplied in the 1950's with the trucks
23
MS JONAS Q. What documentation is supplied with
24
the trucks now
25
A.
Operator's manual manuals for various components
26
from our component supplier for example Engine manual
46
1
transmission manual axle manual
2
Other accessories such as wheels and radios Any
3
component literature that can be supplied goes into the
4
glove compartment and is sent on with the truck
5
Q. Do you have manuals from Rockwell that you supply
6
to the dealers with the Kenworth truck today
7
A.
Yes
8
Q.-
And how long have you been supplying dealers with
9
Rockwell manuals
10
A.
I don't know
11
Q
Do you know what the earliest Rockwell manual is
12
that Kenworth Division would have in its possession
13
A.
No.
14
Q.
Does the Rockwell manual indicate the brake lining
15
that's used on the axle
16
A.
I don't know
17
Q.
Who would be the best person within the Kenworth
18 | Division to provide information about the Rockwell axles
19
A.
About Rockwell axles in general
20
Q.
Yeah About the use of Rockwell's well axles
21 | and specifications for the axles
22
MR KELLER You have some of that here
He's
23
already indicated to that extent he's the person most
24
knowledgeable
25
Is there something more over and above that you
26
can tell here If you think there is somebody else who is
47
1
more knowledgeable --
2
THE WITNESS I guess I don't understand the
3
question
4
MS JONAS Q. Well I asked you questions about
5
Rockwell You indicated you didn't know about the manual
6
what's in it and how long it's been supplied
7
I'm wondering who else within the Kenworth Division
8
might have a little more information about the Rockwell
9
axles
10
MR KELLER That's when you changed the question
11
One point you're talking about the manuals then you're
12
talking about the axles
13
To the extent your talking about the axles and to
14
the extent those are Timken axles you have that information
15
It is here It's been provided
16
It does indicate who the brake lining manufacturers
17
are So that's the problem I have with the question
18
MS JONAS Q. Do you recall the question I asked
19
A.
No.
20
Q.
Okay Is there somebody else within Kenworth who
21
might have a little more information about the Rockwell axle
22
than yourself
23
A.
Not that I know
24
Q.
Other than Raybestos American Brake Block and
25 | Bendix are there any other manufacturers of brake linings
26
that you're aware of that have ever supplied linings for the
48
1
Kenworth trucks .
2
MR LOMAS Objection Misstates his prior
3
testimony
4
MR LOMAS He stated earlier that he spoke to
5
somebody who mentioned the third name
6
You can answer
7
THE WITNESS At any time period
+
8
MS JONAS Q. Yes
9
A.
I believe today we get brake lining from Carlyle
10
Q.
How long has that been true that you've gotten
11
brake lining from Carlyle
12
A.
I don't know
13
Q.
Since the 1970's
14
A.
I don't know
15
Q.
Okay Any other companies that supply the brake
16
linings
17
A.
Rockwell
18
Q.
Does Rockwell manufacture its on brake lining
19
A.
I don't know
20
Q.
Well when it arrives on the axle does it have any
21
kind of insignia indicating the manufacturer
22
MR KELLER By it I assume you mean the lining
23
MS JONAS The lining
24
MR LOMAS Vague
25
THE WITNESS Are we talking about today
26
MS JONAS Q. Let's start with today
49
1
A.
When when brake lining arrives today on the
2
brakes there are -- I -- there are codes on the brake
3
lining
4
Q.
And the code would indicate the manufacturer of the
5
brake lining
6
MR KELLER If you know
7
8
no
THE WITNESS No. I -- the codes I'm referring to
.
9
MS JONAS Q. What do the codes refer to
10
A.
Refer to a friction compound
11
Q
So it refers to a particular material that's used
12
within that product
13
A.
Refers to a friction compound
14
Q.
Okay Are there other writings on the brake
15
linings other than that
16
A.
I don't know
17
d
Do the brake linings that are used on the Kenworth
18
trucks today still contain asbestos
19
A.
Not that I know of
20
Q.
What year was it that they stopped using asbestos
21 | containing brake linings on the Kenworth trucks
22
A.
Sometime in 1987
23
Q.
And why did they stop using asbestos containing
24 | brake linings in 1987
25
A.
Because nonasbestos brake lining that could meet
26
the requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 121
50
1
became available
2
Q.
And was that the first time that that product
3
became available
4
A.
Was 1987
5
MR KELLER By that product you mean
6
nonasbestos brakes --
7
MS JONAS Nonasbestos brake lining that met the
8
federal requirement
9
THE WITNESS I don't follow the question I'm
10
sorry
11
MS JONAS Q. Was that product the nonasbestos
12
containing brake lining available before 1987
13
MR KELLER If you know
14
THE WITNESS
I don't know
15
MS JONAS Q. Who would be the best person within
16 | Kenworth who could answer that question
17
MR KELLER Let me object That's vague and
18
ambiguous Assumes somebody within Kenworth would know that
19
as opposed to somebody who's involved in the manufacture
20
But you can answer if you can
21
THE WITNESS I don't know
22
MS JONAS Q. Who's the manufacturer of that
23 | product that nonasbestos containing brake lining
24
A.
Carlyle Abex Rockwell But rather than calling
25 | those manufacturers I would refer to those as suppliers
26
Who the manufacturers of -- who the actual manufacturers are
51
1
Kenworth doesn't know
2
Eaton may also be a supplier of nonasbestos brake
3
lining
4
Q.
Did Kenworth ever provide any warnings associated
5
with the asbestos containing products on its trucks
6
A.
No.
7
Q.
Did the manufacturers of the asbestos containing
8 | brake linings ever supply any warnings
9
A.
Not that I'm aware
10
Q.
Did Kenworth ever provide any information about the
11
maintenance of the -- or the brake work on the Kenworth
12 | trucks --
13
MR KELLER
Let me just object
I think the
14 | question is vague and ambiguous You mean frequency with
15
which it's done or do you mean the manner in which it should
16 | be accomplished
17
MS JONAS
Either really
18
Q.
Any information supplied by Kenworth to the dealers
19
about the maintenance of the brakes
20
A.
At any time
21
Q.
Yes
22
A.
Yes
23
Q.
When did they first start providing that
24 information
25
A.
I don't know
26
Q.
Okay Well what information has been provided to
52
1
the dealers about maintenance of the brakes
2
A.
I don't know what the specific information is other
3
than the -- what would now fall into the Kenworth maintenance
4
manual
5
Q. And what does the Kenworth maintenance manual
6
provide in regards to brake maintenance
7
MR HOWE Are we talking about today's manual
8
MS JONAS Q. Well start with today's And then
9
I'll ask you obviously what you know from previous manuals
10
A.
Well earlier when I asked you what time period
11
and you were saying today so --
12
Q.
Yeah
13
A.
-- so my answer was for today
14
What it specifically says about brake maintenance
15
I can't recall as we sit here today if there is a brake
16 | section in the Kenworth maintenance manual
17
Q.
Was there a brake section in the manual in the
18
1950's
19
MR LOMAS Speculation
20
THE WITNESS I don't know
21
MS JONAS
Q.
Is there any information in the
22 | Kenworth manual today or at any time to -- regarding safety
23 | precautions that should be used by individuals doing brake
24
work on the Kenworth trucks
25
A.
Any kind of warning
26
Q.
Yes
53
1
A.
For anything
2
Q.
Regarding brake work
3
A.
I don't know
4
Q.
If there were warnings is that something you think
5 | you
6
in your position
MR KELLER
would be aware of The question is vague and ambiguous
7
MS JONAS Q. Being manager of the product safety
8
and compliance is that something that you think you would be
9
familiar with if there were such warnings
10
A.
Whether or not there are warnings in the
11
maintenance manual -- I'm just saying I can't say if there
12 | are or not sitting here I'd have to look at the manuals
13
The manuals are rather thick and there's a lot of
14
documents in there What they all contain -- that's why I
15 | was saying specifically I can't sit here today and tell you
16
everything that's in the brake section of the maintenance
17 manual
18
But there is a brake section
19
Q.
Do you have any copies of the maintenance manuals
20
for the Kenworth trucks in the 1950's
21
A.
No.
22
Q.
What is the earliest manual that you have at
23 | Kenworth
24
A.
Sometime in the 1970's I recall
25
Q.
In terms of the Kenworth trucks that were
26
manufactured in the 1950's and early 1960's were there other
54
1
brake manufacturer's products that were used on those trucks
2
after the initial brake parts wore out
3
MR LOMAS Objection Misstates prior testimony
4
MR KELLER Could I have that back
5
THE WITNESS I didn't follow the question
6
MR KELLER
It sounded a little bit like
7 | Rockwell --
*
8
Record read
9
MR HOWE Objection Based on speculation
10
MR LOMAS Join in the objection
11
MR KELLER Do you understand the question
12
MR LOMAS Same objection
13
MS JONAS Q. Go ahead
14
A.
As I understand the question you're asking whether
15
or not there were other manufacturers of brake products I
16
guess other than what we listed in these axle specification
17
sheets that were used on Kenworth trucks after they had been
18 | delivered
19
Q.
Right
20
A.
And used as replacement parts
21
Q.
Yes
22
MR KELLER That's a better question Answer that
23 | one
24
THE WITNESS
I don't know
25
MS JONAS Q. You want to switch places I think
26
I like your questions
55
1
A.
No I don't want to switch places
2
Q.
Okay Because once it leaves the factory you
3
don't really know what would happen out in the field when
4
the truck is being maintained
5
A. Once it leaves Kenworth's possession
6
Q.
Right
7
A.
Kenworth doesn't operate repair facilities or
8 | things like that So with regard to those replacement parts
9
we don't -- they're not our repair facility so we don't know
10
what parts they use
11
I wouldn't want to characterize this as you know
12
-- we just don't know what happens to the trucks I mean the
13
trucks are out there They're in service They come in and
14
get repaired and --
15
Q.
And they're under warranty
16
MR KELLER For a period of time
17
THE WITNESS For a period of time Yes
18
MS JONAS
Let's let him answer --
19
MR KELLER No.
20
MS JONAS -- questions
21
MR KELLER No. I am letting him answer
22 | questions Your question is vague and ambiguous
22
MS JONAS If you have an objection state it
24
But I would rather get his testimony rather than yours
25
MR KELLER You're not getting mine When you're
26
getting mine you'll know you're getting mine
56
1
MS JONAS Q. How long is the warranty on the
2
Kenworth trucks
3
A.
At what time period
4
Q.
Let's start in the 1950's
"
5
A.
I don't know
6
Q.
1960's
7
A.
I don't know
8
Q. What is the warranty now
9
A.
Twelve months 100,000 miles on some components
10
Three years 300,000 miles on other components And I'm
11
aware of extended warranties that Kenworth arranges with
12
fleet customers in what we call dealer sponsored fleets
13
Q.
Did the Kenworth warranty ever encompass brake
14
components
15
A.
In what way
16
MR KELLER You have to ask questions if you want
17
his testimony You can't just shake your hide
18
If you don't understand the question then don't
19 | answer it
20
MS JONAS Q. I think the question stands What
21
don't you understand about my question
22
MR KELLER You don't stand have to -- if you
23
don't understand a question you don't have to answer it
24
MS JONAS Q. Were there some components of the
25 | brakes that were under warranty and others that were not
26
A.
At what time period
)
*)
:
e
57
1
Q.
In the 1950's
2
A.
I don't know what the warranty was in the 1950's
3
Q.
Who would be the best person to testify about the
4
warranties in the 1950's from Kenworth trucks
-
5
MR KELLER Assumes a fact not in evidence
6
Assumes there would be somebody today
7
THE WITNESS
I don't know
*
8
MS JONAS Q. Does the current warranty pertain
9
to any of the brake components
10
A.
A portion of it does
11
Q
What portion does
12
A.
The warranty warrants the truck to be free of
13
defects and I -- and so for example if a brake shoe was
14
defective it would be replaced under warranty
15
If a brake shoe wears out the lining just wears
16
down then it's repaired under maintenance That's not --
17
maintenance is not a warrantable type of a replacement of a
18
part
19
Q.
Okay I understand
20
NOW for a time Kenworth supplied replacement
21
brake parts to Kenworth dealers in the 1950's is that
22 | correct
23
A.
I don't know
24
Q.
Do you know if at any time Kenworth supplied
25
replacements brake parts to its dealers
26
MR KELLER Let me object The question is vague
r
@
;
e@
58
1
and ambiguous and overbroad
2
MR LOMAS Could I have the question back please
3
Record read
4
THE WITNESS At any time
5
MS JONAS Q. Yes
6
A.
Yes
7
Q.
When did they do that
8
A.
From 1971 I know Or I've been told excuse me
9
Q.
Do you know the period of time that Jenkins was a
10 | Kenworth dealer J.T. Jenkins
11
A
No.
12
Q.
Are you familiar with the J.T. Jenkins dealership
13
A.
I'm aware that Kenworth had a dealer J.T. Jenkins
14
yes
15
Q.
You're You're
counsel has represented
represented to us in
16
correspondence that PACCAR sold replacement brakes for its
17
Class 8 trucks to Jenkins during the period of time Jenkins
18
was a Kenworth dealer
19
Are you aware of that
20
MR KELLER Well first of all if you were aware
21
of that it would be the attorney privilege so I
22 | would-- would--
23
MS JONAS
There's no attorney privilege
24
to --
25
MR KELLER Excuse me
26
How would he know unless I told him
@
r)
59
1
MS JONAS Well as to this information --
2
MR KELLER
Let me finish also
I'm little
3
surprised that you want to now use that information You're
4
more than welcome to do so but when I made that
5
representation to you you didn't want to accept it
6
But go ahead you can answer her question If you
7
know whether PACCAR sold replacement parts at any point in
8
time to Jenkins you can answer it
9
And I think he has answered your question
10
THE WITNESS I've forgotten the question
11
.
MS JONAS Q. Do you know whether PACCAR sold
12
replacements parts for its Class 8 trucks to Jenkins during
13
the period of time Jenkins was a Kenworth dealer
14
MR HOWE Objection Speculation He said he did
16
not know when J.T. Jenkins was a dealer
16
MR LOMAS Join
17
THE WITNESS
Yes
18
MS JONAS Q. And for how long did they supply
19
replacement brakes
20
A.
I believe as I said earlier I'm aware of that
21
brake components may have been supplied to J.T. Jenkins since
22
1971. I don't know exactly how long J.T. Jenkins has been a
23
Kenworth dealer
24
Q.
Okay So if the brake linings wore out on the
25
Kenworth trucks prior to 1971 as far as you know then the
26
replacement parts would have come from somewhere else not
60
r
1 PACCAR
2
MR LOMAS Calls for speculation
3
MR KELLER I'd just object to your question as
4
being vague and ambiguous When you say come from PACCAR I
5
assume you don't mean to imply that they were manufactured by
6
us
7
MS JONAS No. I understand that they don't
8
.
MR KELLER Am I correct
9
MS JONAS Right
10
MR LOMAS Vague as to time
11
THE WITNESS My answer would be that prior to
12
1971 who J.T. Jenkins bought brake parts from I don't know
13
MS JONAS Q. Did the replacement brakes that
r
14
came from PACCAR or I should say were the replacement brakes
15
that came from PACCAR manufactured by Rockwell or by another
16
manufacturer
17
A.
Your earlier question was brake components And --
18
Q.
Yeah Components is what I'm talking about
19
A.
Were they supplied from Rockwell
20
Q.
Yeah By Rockwell or by another company
21
MR HOWE We're talking about post '71 correct
22
MS JONAS Yeah That's all he knows about
23
THE WITNESS And you were talking about -- maybe
24
if I just restate my understanding
25
MS JONAS
Q.
Sure
26
A.
You're talking about brake components supplied to
61
1
J.T. Jenkins since 1971 were they supplied to PACCAR by
2 Rockwell
3
Q.
Right
4
A.
I don't know
5
Q. Where did the replacement parts come from
6
A.
I don't know
7
Q.
Who would know that within Kenworth or PACCAR
8
A. I really don't know
9
Q.
Over what period of time was Timken a supplier to
10 | Kenworth of axles and brake parts
11
A
The axle specifications I believe are dated -- I
12 | believe there may be one from 1950.
13
look here
I could take a minute to
14
Q.
Okay
15
A.
1951 Appears to be one of the first
16
specifications So Kenworth had an axle specification from
17
1951
18
Based upon other research that I've done sometime
19
in the mid 1970's is when we stopped having Timken axles
20
Q.
So from 1951 through sometime in the 1970's
21
Kenworth used Timken axles
22
MR KELLER Let me just object to the question as
23
being vague and ambiguous You say Timken axles --
24
MS JONAS Timken or Rockwell
25
MR KELLER Okay
26
MS JONAS Axle
62
1
MR KELLER I understand you've been advised and
2
I have told Mr. Degenstein about the apparent relationship
3 | between Timken and Rockwell regarding use of the name and I
4
don't think he knew that
"
5
He can only tell from the drawing it says
6
Timken I don't think he would know actually who
7
manufactured
-
8
When you said Timken I assume you mean with the
9
name on it
10
MS JONAS
Timken or Rockwell
11
Q-
Is that correct From the early 1950's up until
12
the 1970's Kenworth used Timken or Rockwell axles on its
13
trucks
14
MR KELLER Well let me object It also
15
misstates his prior testimony He also told you about --
16
MS JONAS
I'm sorry
17
MR KELLER He also told you about Eaton
18
MS JONAS Was a supplier
19
THE WITNESS From 1951 through 1975 -- I guess
20
I - I have a hard time with some of the terms of being a
21
supplier or not
22
The name of the axles was Timken from say 1951
23
through 1975. And as I said earlier Eaton also supplied
24
axles during that time
25
Or Eaton was a -- has been an axle supplier as
26
well
63
1
MR HOWE Mr. Degenstein could you tell me which
2 | document you were referring to when you stated that Timken
3
axles or Kenworth began receiving Timken axles in 1951
4
MS JONAS Q. What he's trying to get you to do
5
is identify which page of Exhibit B you referred to You
6
want to just give us the specification number in the corner
7
A.
Well it goes back to my earlier statement in
8
saying supplies as well But the document I'm referring to
9
is R22
10
That -- this document doesn't say that Timken
11 | supplied axles It's the name of the axle itself It's an
12 | axle specification doesn't say when they started to supply
13 | it nor does it say when they ended
14
It's just we at that time had Timken axles to
15
install
16
MS JONAS Who do you represent counsel
17
MR HOWE Pardon
18
MS JONAS Who do you represent
19
MR HOWE I represent Abex
20
MS JONAS Q. Could any of the replacement brake
21 | parts that were supplied by PACCAR to the Kenworth dealers be
22 | used on other trucks other than the Kenworth and Peterbilt 23 | trucks
24
MR LOMAS Speculation
25
MR KELLER I'll join in that objection
26
THE WITNESS Brake component
component replacement
parts
64
1
could be used on other trucks other than Kenworth trucks
2
MS JONAS Q. International
3
MR LOMAS Vague Not a question Speculation
4
MS JONAS Q. Could the replacement parts be used
5 | on International Harvester trucks
6
MR KELLER Objection Calls for speculation
7
MR LOMAS Join
8
-
THE WITNESS
I don't know
9
MS JONAS Q. Freightliner trucks
10
MR KELLER Same objection
11
MR LOMAS Join
12
THE WITNESS
I don't know
13
MS JONAS Q. Mack
14
MR KELLER Same objection
15
THE WITNESS
I don't know
16
MS JONAS Q. Well you indicated that the
17 replacement parts could be used on other trucks
18 | know that
19
A.
I indicated that brake
component
replacement
How do you parts
20
could be used on other trucks because the brake component
21 | parts are not -- they're not specific to a Kenworth truck
22 | They're specific to a model of axle
23
So if Freightliner installed the same model axle as
24
a Kenworth possibly that part could be used on a
25 | Freightliner
26
Q.
Oh I see
65
1
Are there any brake dimensions that were used on
2
Kenworth trucks in the 1950's other than those that have been
3
identified in Exhibit B or Exhibit C D Rather Exhibit B
4
or D
5
A. Not that I know of
6
MR KELLER Counsel how much longer do you have
7
MS JONAS Not too much longer I don't think
8
MR KELLER
You want to finish before we take a
9 | break
10
We've been at it a couple of hours A short break
MR LOMAS
Short break would be fine with me
11
MR KELLER Do you want to finish your questioning
12 | or take a break now
13
MS JONAS
We could -- if you want to take a
14
break we could do that
15
MR KELLER We'll take five minutes
16
Short recess taken
17
MS JONAS Okay Back on the record
18
Q.
During the 1950's and 1960's were all of the as --
19
were all of the brake linings used on Kenworth trucks
20 |} asbestos containing
21
MR LOMAS
Speculation
22
MR KELLER Join
23
THE WITNESS We don't know
24
MS JONAS Q. Do you have a belief in that
25
regard
26
MR LOMAS Speculation
66
1
THE WITNESS We don't know one way or the other
2
MR KELLER When you say we you mean Kenworth
3
as opposed to you personally
4
THE WITNESS That's correct
5
"
MS JONAS
Q.
Who did you talk to about whether
6 | or not the brake linings contained asbestos in the 1950's
7
A.
Wendell Amburgey Gary Ziebell
8
Q.
And did they indicate -- did both of those
9 | gentlemen indicate to you that they didn't know whether or
10
not the brakes contained asbestos
11
A.
That's correct
12
Q.
So no one within Kenworth knows whether or not any
13 | of the brake parts used on these trucks in the 1950's or 60's
14
had asbestos in them
15
MR LOMAS Speculation He didn't talk to
16
everybody
17
THE WITNESS
I don't know
And that's because
18
those individuals were at Kenworth back in that time period
19
I'm not aware of any other individuals that were at Kenworth
20 | so I guess that's why I would say I don't know
21
Because someone who was employed at Kenworth in
22
1970 wouldn't know any more about 1950
23
MS JONAS Q. Well in 1987 Kenworth started
24 | using brake components that no longer contained asbestos is
22
that right
26
A.
In 1987 we had brake lining nonasbestos brake
67
1
lining that complied with 121 available and that's when we
2 | changed to it
3
Q.
So in 1986 you were using asbestos containing
4
brake linings on your trucks is that correct
5
A. No.
6
Q.
What were you using then
7
A.
There may have been brake lining prior to that that
8
was norasbestos and there may have been brake lining that
9
contained asbestos prior to that
10
What I was saying is that the switch over from
11 | asbestos brake lining to nonasbestos brake lining occurred in
12
1987
13
And there may have been some other brake lining
14
available in 1986 that was nonasbestos and we would have
15 | used it in those applications But I don't know
16
Q.
Do you have any specific information that you
17
looked at or that you know personally or from talking to
18
individuals at Kenworth that in fact there were other
19
nonasbestos containing brake linings available and used on
20 | Kenworth trucks in the 1950's and 1960's
21
A.
There isn't any information that I have found that
22
tells Kenworth what the composition of the brake lining was
23
in the 1950's and 60's
24
Documents that describe the brake lining are those
25
that are Exhibit is it B
26
Q.
B. Okay
68
1
In your capacity as the manager of product safety
2 | do you have occasion to read industrial hygiene studies
3
A.
No.
4
Q.
Who would be the individual within Kenworth who
5
would be in charge of product safety and industrial hygiene
6
matters outside of yourself
7
MR KELLER Let me object Assumes a fact not in
8
evidence that there is a person in charge of industrial
9
hygiene But you can answer
10
THE WITNESS Well you're asking -- you're asking
11
two things You're asking who is in charge of product
12 | safety or responsible for product safety today and
13
industrial hygiene
14
MS JONAS Q. Well you're responsible for
15 | product safety today aren't you
16
A.
That's correct
17
Q.
Yeah Who's responsible for industrial hygiene
18
A.
At Kenworth
19
Q.
Yes
20
A.
There isn't a person
21
Q.
In the 1950's was there an individual who was --
22
who was responsible for product safety
23
A.
In the broadest sense of individuals responsible
24
for product safety even today it's more than just myself
25
It would be everybody
26
In the 50's it would be everyone as well
I don't
69
1
believe there was individual with my job title in 1950
2 | however
3
Q.
Are you personally familiar with any hygiene
4
studies relating to asbestos containing brake components
5
A. No.
6
Q.
Do you have any information one way or the other
7
as to whether or not asbestos containing brake components
8
posed any danger to the health and safety of individuals
9
working on those trucks or in the vicinity of that work
10
MR KELLER Objection Calls for speculation
11
opinion and conclusion that this witness may not be qualified
12
to give An incomplete hypothetical
13
THE WITNESS Could you repeat the question
14
please
15
Record read
16
THE WITNESS
No.
17
MS JONAS Q. On the average how long do the
18 | brake linings last on the Kenworth trucks
19
the 1950's
Let's start with
20
MR HOWE Objection Speculation
21
MR LOMAS Join
22
MR KELLER Let me object It's an incomplete
23 | hypothetical and calls for speculation
24
THE WITNESS You can't determine an average
25
MS JONAS Q. What's the range
26
A.
Of how long brake linings would last
70
1
Q.
The brake linings yeah On a Class 8 Kenworth
2 | truck
3
MR HOWE Same objection
4
THE WITNESS Based upon my experience I have
5 | heard of people replacing brake linings from 30,000 miles
6
outward to 150 160,000 miles
7
MS JONAS Q. So you're saying on the Kenworth
8
trucks that some of the brake linings would last up to
9
160,000 miles the same brake lining on the truck
10
A.
I have heard people say -- you know based upon my
11
experience I have heard people state that they have had
12
brake linings last 150 160,000 mile range
13
Q.
Whose clutches did Kenworth use in the 1950's
14
1960's
15
A.
I don't know
16
Q.
Whose do you use now
17
A.
Spicer Rockwell And I believe Eaton has a clutch
18
Q.
How long have you used Spicer clutches
19
A.
I don't know
20
Q.
How long have you used Rockwell clutches
21
A.
I don't know
22
Q.
And Eaton
23
A.
I don't know
24
Q.
Who's in charge of the clutch department at
25 | Kenworth
26
A.
We don't have a clutch department
71
1
Q.
Who would be in charge of the division with
2 | information related to clutch parts in the Kenworth trucks
3
A.
The clutch parts are a purchased part They're
4
isn't anybody in charge of them The individual plants
5
--
purchase
purchase parts
6
The corporate purchasing may also -- may purchase
7
it as a -- as a commodity
8
Q. Corporate purchasing from PACCAR
9
A.
Yes
10
Q.
For both Peterbilt and Kenworth Divisions
11
A
Yes
12
Q.
Who's in charge of corporate purchasing for PACCAR
13 | Who's the head of that division
14
A.
I don't know that it's a division
The individual
15
in charge of corporate purchasing is Lou Catanio
16
Q.
How do you spell Catanio
17
A.
I don't know
18
Q.
Can you help us out a little bit
19
MR KELLER Well if you know you know If you
20 | don't you can't help them out a little bit Because
21 |] whenever you try to help them out it's never enough
22
Probably spelled like it sounds o
23 |] That's the best I can help you out
24
MS JONAS Q. What were the compositions of the
25 | brake linings in the 1950's used on the Kenworth trucks
26
MR KELLER Objection It's been asked and
72
1
answered
2
MR LOMAS Speculation
3
THE WITNESS The question is what is the
4
composition of the brake lining
5
MS JONAS Q. Yes
6
A.
Used in the 1950's and 60's
7
Q.
hum affirmative
8
A.
Kenworth doesn't know what the composition of the
9
brake lining was in the 1950's or 60's
10
Q.
Do you know whether or not J.T. Jenkins was also an
11
authorized dealer for the Peterbilt trucks in the 1950's and
12 | 60's
13
A.
No I don't
14
Q.
Are there any other documents available within the
15
Kenworth Division relating to brake products used on the
16 | Kenworth trucks in the 1950's and 60's other than those
17
you've produced today
18
A.
No. This is everything that I could fine
19
MS JONAS Okay That's all I have for now
20
EXAMINBYAMTRILO OMN AS
21
Q.
Mr. Degenstein my name is Brad Lomas I just have
22 | a very few follow questions
23
MR KELLER It might be helpful if you could let
24 | him know who you represent
25
MR LOMAS I represent Allied Signal
26
Q.
As I understand your testimony you did a thorough
73
1
search of the documents that Kenworth had which contained
2
information regarding Kenworth
Kenworth --
Kenworth
Kenworth purchases
,
3
handling or supply of truck brakes from 1950 to the present
4
is that right
5
A. Yes
6
Q.
And all of the documents that you found were
7
contained in Exhibits B and C is that correct
8
MR KELLER And D.
9
MR LOMAS Q. B and D is that correct
10
A.
Yes
11
Q
And none of those documents refer to Bendix or
12
Allied Signal is that correct
13
A.
That's correct
14
Q.
So the only information you have regarding Bendix
15 | products being purchased or handled or supplied by Kenworth
16
is the statement of Mr. Amburgey is that right
17
A.
That's correct
18
Q.
And no one else you spoke to told you this is that
19
right
20
A.
That's correct
21
Q.
And you were never yourself involved in the order
22
handling or supplying of Bendix products to J.T. Jenkins is
23
that right
24
MS JONAS I'm going to object to this whole line
25 | of questioning as to the form
26
Go ahead
Leading
eo
e
,
@
74
1
THE WITNESS No I personally didn't --was --was not
2
involved in distributing brake products to J.T. Jenkins
3
MR LOMAS Q. Okay And because Mr. Amburgey
4
didn't know the time frame you don't know whether any Bendix
5 | product was ever supplied to J.T. Jenkins from 1951 to '63
6
do you
7
MS JONAS Same objection
8
-
THE WITNESS That's correct I don't know the time
9
period nor did Mr. Amburgey know the time period
10
MR LOMAS Okay Pass for now
11
MR HOWE I have no questions
12
MS NELSON I have none
13
MR KELLER Are you done
14
MS JONAS Yes I am
15
But I do want to state for the record that I'm
16
not completing this --the --the deposition that we noticed
17
because I'm not satisfied that the person most knowledgeable
18
has been produced as to each of the catergories on the notice
19
sent
20
Nor do I believe that an adequate search has been
21
conducted to obtain the records identified in setting records
22
notice
23
So what I would like to do is continue this
24 | deposition until we can agree on a date when the person most
25 | knowledgeable and custodian of the records for the
26
catergories not satisfied here can be produced
75
1
And also there's a separate notice for the
2 | Peterbilt Division for deposition to be conducted today And
3
I would ask that counsel would identify the individual who
4 | will be produced from that division so that we can schedule
5 | another deposition
6
MR KELLER I guess what surprises me every
7 | deposition I've been to from your office that has been a
8
2025 has ended with that statement that the lawyer taking
9
the deposition was dissatisfied with the person designated
10
and the documents produced and an attempt was made to leave
11 } the depositon open
12
I don't agree with your characterization of our
13
attempt to produce Mr. Degenstein as to the person most
14 knowledgeable
15
He's indicated on the record why he is I believe
16
he is He's also indicated for you that he has searched for
17
all the documents and has produced all the documents he has
18
found with respect to Peterbilt
19
If you want to take somebody from Peterbilt we
20
didn't discuss that I'm surprised you don't spend more time
21
with Rockwell and Eaton But I certainly want to produce
22 | somebody from Peterbilt
23
I produced
produced
because
Mr. Degenstein
as I told you
24
because of the press of trial and the fact that Kenworth was
25
the truck or trucks that were being sold to Jenkins I don't
26
agree with your characterizations nor your attempt to leave
76
6
1
the deposition open as to him
2
MS JONAS Thank you Mr. Degenstein
3
4
5
.
was
concluded the 3:35 deposition
6
7
DAVID L. DEGENSTEIN
8
.
9
10
11
12
13
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15
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18
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20
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77
STATE OF CALIFORNIA
)
1
) COUNTY OF CONTRA COSTA )}
3
ss
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1111
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117
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I FRANK J. MASELLI JR a Certified Shorthand Reporter in and for the County of Contra Costa State of California do hereby certify
That the witness in the foregoing deposition named was present and by me sworn as a witness in the entitled action at the time and place therein specified
That said deposition was taken before me at said time and place and was taken down in shorthand by me a Certified Shorthand Reporter of the State of California and was thereafter transcribed into typewriting and that the foregoing transcript constitutes a full true and correct report of said deposition and of the proceedings that took place
IN WITNESS WHEREOF I have hereunder subscribed my hand and affixed my official seal this 30th day of August 1993
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In and for the County of Contra Costa State of California