Document MGzjr3dYgzoByzXKELYkk8Q7V
1
2
3
Vernon Puppe, deceased, by
4 Wanda Puppe, surviving spouse and Candice Brouse and
5 Deborah Lynn Puppe, surviving children,
6 Plaintiffs.
7 vs.
Civil No. A2-86-78
8
A C & S, Inc., a
9 Pennsylvania corporation,
et .a1 , 10
D e f e ndan t s.
11
1 2 DEPOSITION OF MICHAEL GREGORY, taken
1 3 pursuant to Notice of Taking Deposition, and
1 4 taken before Jeanne M. Gaughan a Notary Public,in
1 5 and for the County of Hennepin, State of
1 6 Minnesota, on the 28th day of October 1987, at '
f 1 7 4005 West 65th Street, Edina, Minnesota,
1 8 commencing at approximately 9:00 a.m. 19 20 * * * * *
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JOHNSON & DZIUK COURT REPORTERS
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1 APPEARANCES r 2 ROBERT G. GUBBE, P.A., By ROBERT G. 3 GUBBE, ESQ., 218 Cornelia Building, 4005 West 4 65th Street, Edina, Minnesota 55435, appeared on 5 behalf of the plaintiff. 6 7 LETNES, MARSHALL, FIEDLER & CLAPP, LTD., 8 By JAY FIEDLER, ESQ., 202 First Bank Building, 9 P.O. Box 1950, Grand Forks, North Dakota 58206, 10 appeared on behalf of American Hoist and Derrick. 11 1 2 FAEGRE & BENSON, By KIRK O. KOLBO, ESQ., 1 3 2300 Multifoods Tower, Minneapolis, Minnesota 14 55402-3694, appeared on behalf of U.S. Gypsum. 15 16 VOGEL, BRANTNER, KELLY, KNUTSON, WEIR &
t 1 7 BYE, LTD,, By LORI J. BECK, ESQ., 502 1st Avenue 1 8 North, Box 1389, Fargo, North Dakota 58107, 19 appeared on behalf of Clark Equipment. 20 2 1 VAALER, GILLIG, WARCUP, WOUTAT, 2IMNEY & 2 2 FOSTER, (Chartered), By ALLEN J. FLAXEN, ESQ., 23 Fifth Floor, Metropolitan Building, 600 Demers 24 Avenue, Grand Forks. North Dakota 58206-1617, 25 appeared on behalf of S.K. Wellman.
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INDEX
WITNESS-__M1chae1 G r egory
Examination
Mr. Gubbe
.
Mr. Fiedler
Mr. Kolbo
Mr. Beck
EXHIBITS {No Exhibits Marked.)
PAGE
4 17 21 23
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1 MICHAEL GREGORY,
2 having been duly sworn, was examined and
3 testified as follows:
4 5 EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. GU3BE:
..7 Q.
Would you state your full name and spell your
8 last name, please?
9 A.
Michael Gregory.
That's G-r-e-g-o-r-y.
1 0 Q.
And what is your present home address?
1 1 A.
165 Northland Avenue, Stillwater, Minnesota.
1 2 Q.
And how long have you resided there, Mr. Gregory?
1 3 A.
Eleven years.
1 4 Q.
And are you currently married?
1 5 A.
Yes.
1 6 Q. 17 A.
And your wife's name? Marsha.
A
1 8 Q.
And are you currently employed?
19 A .
Yes, I am.
20 Q.
And who are you employed with?
2 1 A.
Barry Blower, Division of Snyder General
2 2 Corporation.
2 3 Q.
And how long have you been employed there?
2 4 A.
Eight years.
25 Q.
In what capacity are you employed at Barry
JOHNSON & DZIUK COURT REPORTERS
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1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 A.
6 Q
7 A.
8 Q
9 A.
10 Q
11 1 2 A. 13 1 4 Q. 1 5 A. 1 6 Q. 17 1 8 A. 1 9 Q. 20 21 A. 2 2 Q. 23 2 4 A. 2 5 Q.
Blower?
Purchasing manager.
And have you been the purchasing manager
throughout your period of employment there?
Yes .
'
And what is your education, Mr. Gregory?
I have three years of college.
And where is that?
University of Minne s o t a.
And prior to Barry Blower, where were you
emp1oyed ?
For a short time at Hansman Industries in
Stillwater, Minnesota.
And prior to that?
American Hoist and Derrick. And how long were you employed at American Hoist
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and Derrick? Almost ten years. And in what capacity were you employed
at
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American Hoist and Derrick?
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As a buyer. Did you have employment prior to American Hoist
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and Derrick?
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Yes. With G T Sheldoff in Northfield,Minnesota.
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What kind of business is that?
!
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1 A. 2 Q. 3 A. 4 Q. 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 A. 9 10 1 1 Q. 12 13 1 4 A. 1 5 Q. 1 6 A. 1 7 Q. 18 19 20 A. 2 1 Q. 22 A. 2 3 Q. 24 25
Basically aerospace manufacturing. And in what position were you employed by them?
I was a buyer . As a buyer at American Hoist and Derrick, what were your job duties? , I purchased several different commodities. And which commodities did you purchase? Air brakes, brake linings, tools. There were a number of them. I can't remember all of them
right now.
With regards to the brake components, were you
the only person in charge of purchasing those
items?
For a period of time, yes.
Was that for the -- from 1970 to when?
From 1970 to 1977, I think.
t
And did anyone take your position or take over
purchasing of the brake friction products after
that?
Yes. A man by the name of Bud Koop, K-o-o-p.
And is Mr. Koop currently still alive?
No .
When you were purchasing for American Hoist and
Derrick, do you recall if there was any concern
expressed to you by anyone in the corporate
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1 2 3 A. 4 Q 5 A. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 Q
14 15 16 17 18 A.
19 Q 20
21 22 A.
23 Q
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ladder as to any problem with air-borne asbestos fibers? As regards to brake lining material? Yes, sir. Towards the end of the time that I purchased the material with the OSHA regulations, we did get letters -- we got some information from the brake lining vendors. And they had started to look at alternatives, some rubber-based friction materials. But this -- as I say, I turned the commodity over then, and I was no longer involved in that type of thing. Okay. When you say you started to get from the manufacturers, do you recall specifically -- or do you recall any of the literature specifically as to the possible health hazards of the air-borne asbestos fibers? I don't recall specific letters or memos, no. Do you recall if there was any effort made at that time to find an alternative to brake linings or clutch linings which contain asbestos fibers? I don't remember exactly what was done. Okay. During the time that you were with American Hoist and Derrick and purchasing the brake components, what companies were you
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1 2 A. 3 4 Q. 5 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 10 11 1 2 A. 1 3 Q. 14 15 1 6 A. 17 18 1 9 Q. 20 21 22 23 2 4 A. 25
purchasing from?
American Brake Block, Raybestos Manhattan, H. K.
Porter and John Mansville.
Are there any other companies that you can recall
at this time that wouid/ -- that you may have
purchased from?
No. No. And can you tell me if your purchases from those
four companies would have been for both
manufacturing departments and service departments
at American Hoist?
They were for both.
Was there any difference in purchasing from -- or
purchasing for either the manufacturing division
or the service division?
Generally service division -- parts that were f
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ordered for the service division were parts that
were no longer used in current production.
Okay. When you would purchase, would you
purchase -- would there be extra purchases made
that would exceed just the production for
replacement parts or would those be purchased as
they were needed?
.
There were parts that were ordered for stock.
There's material that was ordered for service
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stock or there were parts that were ordered per requirement. When you would purchase, was there any type of standard American Hoist purchase requirements or -- that would be given to the manufacturers of the components? What do you mean by requirements? Okay. Were -- okay. Did you have different types of asbestos-containing material that was ordered? There were different brand names or different vendor part numbers that we would order. Did you have specific specifications which these were ordered by? As I said, we would order them generally by vendor part number or if it was a molded brake
t block, it would be ordered per an American Hoist drawing showing the configuration, the whole pattern of the block. All right. And this would be something that would be supplied to the vendor. Right. Did you also order -- I!m looking right here at some invoices that were apparently sent to Raybestos Manhattan. And can you just briefly --
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I'm looking at one that's dated -- that appears
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to be dated September 26th, 1976. Would you tell j
me if that is the standard type of American Hoist '
and Derrick purchaseorder?
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Basically, yes.
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And does that contain your signature?
Yes, it does.
And on that, what does that indicate it was
ordered?
It shows that it was ordered as a molded lining
per the American Hoist and Derrick drawing.
Okay. And if you can help me -- how is that
.
identified or is that just identified with
American Hoist and Derrick's number?
The number listed here is an American Hoist and
Derrick drawing number.
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Is there any way to identify from that drawing
number what particular piece of equipment it
would go to? Or would we need to go to that
drawing to find out which piece of equipment it
would --
You would probably have to look on the drawing.
I would have no way of -- just by seeing that
number I would have no way of determining what
piece of equipment that went onto.
JOHNSON & DZIUK COURT REPORTERS
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1 Q. 2 3
Okay. When you were requested to particular parts, how did you get
order the information
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as to what you were supposed to order?
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4 A.
By a purchase requisition.
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5 Q.
And would that come from either service or
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6 7 A.
manufacturing? It would come from either one, service or
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8 manufacturing.
9 MR. FIEDLER: Can I just take a look at
1 0 what you are reviewing?
1 1 ( Mr. Fiedler is handed document
1 2 for review.)
rl 3 '*
....BgY-_ -^yujM' R"''.
G: UBBE:
14 Q.
Did you also order fabric linings?
1 5 A.
Yes. Woven fabric, yes.
1 6 Q.
Can you tell from this purchase order whether `
1 7 this was ordered as a replacement part or for
1 8 manufacturing?
1 9 A.
It shows the delivery point of the material to be
20 the service department. It shows that it's to be
2 1 delivered to Building 5 which was service.
2 2 Q.
And what was the code or designation for
2 3 manufacturing?
2 4 A.
Manufacturing would have a numbered location,
2 5 generally. I can tell as I remember from the
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account number and by the designation of where -
there was a numbered designation for the other
buildings or the other plant locations.
Okay. I have some correspondence here addressed
to a Mr. J, period, Reagan, R-e-a-g-a-n. at
American Hoist and Derrick. And this is dated
April 13th, 1987 from a Robert D. Taylor with
Raybestos Manhattan. Can you tell me who
Mr. J. Reagan is?
He is or was an engineer at American Hoist.
Do you know if he is still with American Hoist
and Derrick?
That I don't know.
Did you have any dealings in your purchasing with
Mr. Reagan?
Yes, I did.
Okay. In what regards?
I can't be specific. We purchasing people
interface with engineering people. It depends
upon what the particular situation was.
Did you ever have an opportunity to see the
products come in which you were
ordering for the different divisions? No .
Do you have any knowledge as to
i f replacement
JOHNSON & DZIUK COURT REPORTERS
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1 products were shipped out to various outlets, say
2 a crane service company in Fargo or Moorehead. if
3 they would be shipped in an Am-Hoist container or
4 if they would be shipped in a container supplied
5 with the logo of the manufacturer?
6 A.
I really don't know.
7 Q.
Who when you were there would have that
8 knowledge ?
9 A.
There's only one name that I can remember from
1 0 that area and he may not be the one, but there -is
1 1 a man named Roger Urbanski in service.
1 2 Q.
Do you know how that's spelled?
1 3 A.
U-r-b-a-n-s-k-i.
1 4 Q.
Now, this letter dated April 13th of 1976
1 5 indicates the -- some OSHA requirements relative
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to the maximum allowable air-borne asbestos
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1 7 fibers. Did you have knowledge before that time
1 8 , of OSHA requirements?
19 A.
I don't remember when I first became aware of
20 OSHA requirements.
2 1 Q.
Was this one of your concerns in purchasing?
2 2 A.
Not at the time, no.
2 3 Q.
Were you ever given any instructions by
2 4 engineering or by -- I assume you had a safety
2 5 director or something with Am-Hoist, did you not?
JOHNSON & DZIUK COURT REPORTERS
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1 A.
Yes. I think we did.
2 Q.
Do you recall the name of that person?
3 A.
No .
4 q.
Were you ever given any instructions either by
5 anyone in engineering or in safety as to OSHA
6 requirements for your purchasing?
7 A.
As it regards brake lining?
8 q.
Yes, sir.
9 A.
1 0 q.
Not that I can recall. Did you purchase or was there a difference in
1 1 purchasing the woven brake lining material as
12 opposed to the molded brake lining material?
1 3 A.
What do you mean by difference?
1 4 q.
Was there one particular company that you would
1 5 purchase woven material from as opposed to molded
1 6 material?
1 7 A.
Raybestos Manhattan was our major supplier of the
1 8 ,.......woven material.
19 q.
And was that for both replacement and
20 manufacturing or service and manufacturing
2 1 divisions?
2 2 A.
In reviewing those past purchase orders it looks
2 3 like it was basically for after-market
2 4 replacement.
25 q.
And with regards to purchasing of the molded
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i i brake blocks and that type of friction bearing -
friction material, was there any one particular
company that stands outin your mind who
you
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wouldpurchase MR.
from?
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FIEDLER:
Did yousay molded?
MR. GUBBE: Right.
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American Brake Block stands out as the major source that I can remember. Was there any requirement when you purchased from American Brake Block or one of the others when you purchased the molded brake blocks or brake linings? Was there any requirement that any Am-Hoist logo or American Hoist and Derrick name be applied to that brake item? It seems to me we asked, on the molded blocks, to have the American Hoist part number and their ` compound number put on the blocks. Okay. I think there is a statement on one of those purchase orders to that effect.
What about the woven material? Do you have any recollection as to that? I don't remember if it -- if he had any requirements like that or not. The woven material it appears was ordered in the
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hundred foot quantities or multiples of a hundred |
feet.
Does that -- _ do you recall that?
I would -- yeah. We ordered it -- that material
by the foot.
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So is that something that would then be cut to
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size either at American Hoist and Derrick or in yourservice department? Well, it would be cut to size at some point in
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time. Whether it was at the service department
or some other place, I don't know. Do you have any idea who was the purchasing -- or
the buyer for these items prior to your tenure at
American Hoist and Derrick?
I really don't. There was a number of buyers when I started there but I don't remember who
turned over the -- who I got the commodity from''
when I started there.
When you started there were the people -- the
suppliers and manufacturers the same as when you finished there? They were basically the same as when I stopped purchasing that item.
I notice in the -- at least in the Raybestos Manhattan documents -- at times they're concerned about, evidently, delivery problems.
JOHNSON & DZIUK COURT REPORTERS
1 A.
Yes. They were not very good when it came to
2 delivery.
3 Q.
Did you have that problem with any of the other
4 suppliers?
5 A.
Off and on.
,
6 Q.
John Mansville was not that great and American
7 Brake Block had their bad moments also.
8 MR . GUBBE : I have no further questions
9 time.
1 0 MR . K0LB0: I have --
1 1 MR . FIEDLER: There --
12
MR . K0LB0 :
_ - a few.
Go ahead.
13
1 4 EXAMINATION
1 5 BY MR. FIEDLER:
1 6 Q.
There was some questions regarding placement of a
17 logo on American Brake Block items. And you said
1 8 that it was requested that the Am-Hoist part
19 number and their compound be put on the blocks.
20 When you were saying "their compound," who were
2 1 you referring to?
2 2 A.
The vendor's compound number. There is a
2 3 statement on one of the purchase orders to that
24 effect under the molded brake line.
2 5 Q.
Can you readily find that? You're referring to
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1 2 A. 3 4 5 Q. 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 10 1 1 A. 1 2 Q. 13 1 4 A. 15 1 6 Q. 17 18 19 20 2 1 A. 2 2 Q. 2 3 A. 24 2 5 Q.
Purchase Order P67060.
Yeah. It says -- well, that's all strip
material. So plainly show -- okay. That isn't
the one I was looking at.
And it is to show the manufacturer and the
compound or style number.
Right. Now, with respect to that particular purchase
order, is the manufacturer then Raybestos
Manhattan?
-
That's correct.
And what is compound number? What does that
mean?
That would be the Raybestos Manhattan formulation
or formula that --
All right. Referring you to the letter of April
13th, 1976. And before we get to that
specifically -- you told us that your tenure at
American Hoist and Derrick was from 1970 to 1977
and that towards the end -
No. I worked there until 1979. All right. What was 1977?
That's when -- as I remember, that is when I
stopped purchasing the brake line material.
Why was that ?
JOHNSON & DZIUK COURT REPORTERS
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1 A.
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We got a new buyer in the department and the
commodities were divided up. The responsibility just shifted --
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Righ t. -- from you to another individual.
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That'sright. Now, did I understand your testimony to be that
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you did not become aware of any concern with
air-borne asbestos until the end of your time at
American Hoist?
As I remember.
Now, when you were saying the end of your time,
were you referring to 1979 when you left Am-Hoist
or 1977 when you quit buying?
1977 when I quit buying.
Now, can you place it any more specifically than /
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that? For instance, the letter that was referred ;
to you during direct examination carries a date
o f Apri1 1 9 7 6 . Uh-huh.
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Using that as a bench mark, can you be any more
specific as to when you became aware of any
concern regarding air-borne asbestos?
I cannot give a specific date on it, no. I know
that there was discussion on it about this period
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of time.
When you say this period of time, are you
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r e f e r ring to--
1975, 1976 period of time.
-
And prior to that period of time do you recall
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any discussions about it?
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No.
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Okay. And is it your recollection that the first
information you had regarding those concerns were
as a result of OSHA regulations and letters from
vendors?
To the best of my recollection, yes.
Do you recall a specific recollection as to what
vendors those would have been?
Which vendors -- .
Provided the correspondence we werejust talking
about.
*
No. I see that thereis a letter from
Raybestos
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Manhattan here. What other correspondence there
was, I don't remember.
And that's the letter we talked about dated April
13, 1976?
Yes . As far as the mold replacement parts were
concerned, was that a situation where essentially
JOHNSON & DZIUK COURT REPORTERS
1 an Item was ordered either by a part number or
2 according to a drawing; it was fabricated by the >
3 supplier and then sent to American Hoist?
4 A.
Yes.
5 Q. 6
So in effect the Am-Hoist then was receiving a completed good or a completed item. Completed
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7 component would probably be a better term.
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8 A.
Yes.
9 Q.
That's all I have.
10
1 1 EXAMINATION
1 2 BY MR. KOLBO:
.'
1 3 Q.
I have just a few questions. You mentioned H. K.
14
Porter as being one of thesuppliers during the
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15 16 17 1 8 A.
time you were a buyer. Do you have a
recollection as to what kind of products that /
were purchasing from H. K. Porter?
Not right offhand. They were not a large
,
you
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19 supplier of American Hoist.
20 Q.
Okay.
2 1 A.
Unless I were to see a purchase order that I had
2 2 placed with them -- I could probably identify
2 3 what the item was that I purchased from them
24 but - -
25 Q.
Okay. You sort of anticipated what my next
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question -- can you give me some idea of the
suppliers you mentioned, what percentage of
products would have been supplied by H. K.
Porter? I would say probably less -- less than 20
percent. Okay. Do you associate your purchases from H. K. Porter with any particular period or year
between 1970 and 1977?
It was during that whole period of time. But as
I said, they were not a major vendor of ours.
They were just a small source for us.
.
Okay. Were they a source you would purchase from
when you couldn't get somebody else or what would
be the circumstance?
There were some items that did specify
H. K. Porter as the vendor. Do you have any idea whether the H. K. Porter
products were asbestos containing?
I would assume that they were but I can't say for
sure what their compounds were. What was the policy of American Hoist at the time you were there with regard to keeping copies of purchasing orders or invoices? Did you retain
them?
JOHNSON & DZIUK COURT REPORTERS
. 23
1 A.
For a period of time. I don't remember exactly
2 what it was, if it was three years or what it
3 was .
4 MR. K0LB0 : I have no further
5 questions. Thank you.
6
7 EXAMINATION
8 BY MS. BECK:
9 Q.
Mr. Gregory, my name is Lori Beck and I represent
10 Clark Equipment in this case. Is it true that
1 1 when Am-Hoist ordered replacement parts that were
1 2 fabricated by the supplier and sent to Am-Hoist,
1 3 Am-Hoist had no say in what materials went into
1 4 those parts? They just received the parts that
1 5 were fabricated by the supplier and didn't, you
1 6 know, say, "Put in so much of certain compounds"?
17 A.
No. They -- to my recollection they never said,
1 8 you know, put in -- they never gave them a recipe
1 9 for it.
20 Q.
Okay. Am I correct in understanding that you
2 1 have no knowledge as to whether these friction
2 2 materials put any dust into the air when they
2 3 were used in cranes, for example?
2 4 A.
Never seen the operation or the usage of it. I
2 5 couldn't testify yes or no.
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1 Q.
You said 20 percent of the parts you ordered were
2 from H. K. Porter. Do you know the percentage of
3 parts that you got from the other suppliers.
4 MR. K0LB0: I will object to
5 m i scharacterization of testimony.
6 BY MS. BECK:
7 Q.
Less than 20 percent. Excuse me.
8 A.
I couldn't give a percentage figure, you know, on
9 the other three.
1 0 Q.
Now, these documents discussed by Mr. Gubbe, are
1 1 these documents that you've produced?
12 A.
No .
1 3 Q.
Do you know who produced these?
1 4 A.
I have no idea.
1 5 MR. GUBBE: For the record, they're out
1 6 of Raybestos Manhattan's files in New Jersey.
1 7 MS. BECK: Can we have copies of
1 8 these?
1 9 MR. GUBBE: I suspect so.
20 MR. FIEDLER: Just while we're on that
2 1 point -- we can put this on the record for my own
2 2 reco11ection, we will formally be requesting
2 3 production of documents.
2 4 MS. BECK: Okay. I don't have anything
2 5 further.
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25
1 MR. FLATEN: I have no questions.
2 MR. FIEDLER: No.
3 MR. GUBBE: Mr. Gregory, I guess we
4 have no further questions of you.
5 You have the ..right to read and sign and
6 have notice of the filing of your deposition with
7 the court. However, we would ask you if you
a don't mind you can waive the reading and the
9 signing because the court reporter not only is
1 0 very accurate, she has a tape recording and is
1 1 taking everything verbatim.
1 2 THE WITNESS: That's fine.
1 3 MR. GUBBE: Do you say you waive the
1 4 reading and signing?
1 5 THE WITNESS: I waive the reading and
1 6 the signing.
t
1 7 (The deposition concluded at 9:32
18 a.m. )
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1 STATE OF MINNESOTA ) ) ss .
2 COUNTY OF HENNEPIN ) 3 Be it known that I, Jeanne M. Gaughan, 4 took the foregoing deposition of Michael Gregory 5 on the 28th day of November, 1987, at 9:00 a.m. 6 That I was then and there a Notary 7 Public in and for the County of Hennepin, State 8 of Minnesota, and that by virtue thereof, I was 9 duly authorized to administer an oath; 10 That the witness before testifying was 1 1 by me first duly sworn to testify the whole truth 1 2 and nothing but the truth relative to said cause; 1 3 That the testimony of said witness was 1 4 recorded by me and transcribed into typewriting 1 5 under my direction; and that the deposition is a 1 6 true record of the testimony given by the witness 1 7 to the best of my ability; That I am not related 1 8 to any of the parties hereto nor interested in 19 the outcome of this action. 20 WITNESS MY HAND AND SEAL THIS 10th day 2 1 of November, 1987. 22
Jeanne M. Gaughan, Notary Public 23 24 25
JOHNSON & DZIUK COURT REPORTERS