Document MGvvkv7J7BaRYvv81eLGqNrDj
iYBUaU&IC Hmsestsite
122 EAST 42nd STREET NEW YORK, N. Y. 10017
August 10, 1967
Reference : 9593 Ser 6153B1-1917
Naval Ship Engineering Center Washington, D. C. 20360
Attention: Mr. V. 'Wiersma Head, Pumps, Blovers and Compressors Section Auxiliary Equipment Branch
Dear Sir:
.1967
Reference is made to MVSEC letter dated August 3,
Ve deeply appreciate your comments relative to the
draft of my report covering the Joint Meeting of June 27, 1967. These recommendations have been accepted, and I believe that the contents of the final report, as iseued, meets all of your requirements.
Very truly yours.
Prank P. Anderson Chairman
FEA:eu
Enclosure cc:(nsoo} Messrs. Jelly, Ellis, Freed, McGinnis, McGuckin,
Northam, Schanzlin, Sniffen, Lindros, McCaamon, Mstzgar, Navratil, Schivley, Schumacher, Baugh, Tuthill, Herndon, Weom, DeFerro, Donohue, Nelson, Smith, and L. G. Humphrey
SLM00147
REPORT:
Joint Conference: Representatives of the Naval Ships Engineering Center, Naval Ships Syfitebs Command, and Pump Manufacturers
PLACE OF MEETING: The Mayflower Hotel, Washington, B. C*
DATE AW TB:
Tuesday, June 27, 196? - - 9:30 A.M.
PRESENT:
Naval Ships Systems Command M. S, Cohen A. A. Napoletano
Hydraulic Institute J. F. Cooke D. F. Cress H. L. Glass M. F. Hagerstrom B. Hawks L. K. Herndon L. G. Humphrey P. H. Israel, Jr* I. A. Jelly E. E. Lindros C. G. McGinnis J. C. Northern R. F. Baashaus J. J. Paugh E. H. Schanzlln C. D. Stauffer H. J* Welch Frank P. Anderson
AUis-Chalmers Mfg. Co. Allis-ChaInters Mfg. Co.
Warren Pumps, Inc. Ingersoll-Band Company
DeLaval Turbine Inc. The Weinman Pump Mfg. Co. Buffalo Pumps Division Warren Pumps, Inc. Aurora Pump Division Byron Jackson Pumps, Inc. Ingersoll-Hand Company Worthington Corporation Worthington Corporation Warren Pumps, Inc. Tuthill Pump Company Fairbanks Morse Inc, Pump Div. DeLaval Turbine Inc. Institute Staff
Others
0. leFerro J, A. Donohue
A. D. Hale
R. H. Hundt R. E, Nelson W. K. Noble W. W. Smith
.Purpose of Meeting:
Pacific Pumps, Inc.
M. T. Davidson
American Machine & Foundry Co., Cuno Engineering Corp.
American Machine Foundry Co., Cuno Engg. Blackmer Pump Company Pacific Pumps, Inc. Sier Bath Div., Gilbarco, Ind.
This conference was arranged at the request of the Hydraulic Institute to provide an opportunity to discuss comments "by both members end non-members of the Hydraulic Institute relative to the following Specifications:
MIL-P-17881B - Pumps, Centrifugal, Boiler Feed (Kulti-Stage) MIL-P-l84?2D - Pumps, Centrifugal, Condensate, Feed Booster and
Distilling Plant KEL-P-18682A - Pumps, Centrifugal, Main Condenser Circulating
Discussion 'at `this time continued the work started on
March 16, 1967, when MIL-P-I7639B - Pumps, Centrifugal, Miscellaneous Service, vas reviewed in full detail.
COMMITTEE TO REVIEW MILITARY SPECIFICATIONS
EXHIBIT A jmE 26, 1967
SLM00148
Discussion:
Prior to this meeting all of the comments, folly identified and unedited, had been submitted both to the Navy Department Representatives and to all of the companies which had submitted comments.
In addition to the foregoing, all of the comments had been arranged to correspond to the sequence of the Specifications themselves. Ibis was to facilitate discussion. The text was not altered in this reorganization.
In response to a request from the Navy Department Representatives, the comments were roughly classified into categories by each submittor, at the meeting, as follows:
C - Clarification Requested A - Accept or No Comment R - Recommend N - Not recommended 1 - Low effort addition 2 - High effort addition 3 - low cost addition ^ - High cost addition
Attached as Exhibit No. 1 is a tabulation indicating those paragraphs on which comments were submitted. This tabulation indicates those paragraphs on which further action is required as a result of the foregoing discussion. Where no action is required, the paragraph number is merely listed with the comment, `'Comments discussed."
A copy of this tabulation vas submitted to the Navy Department Representatives subsequent to the meeting for confirmation of the under standing recorded.
Time and Place of Next Meeting:
The consensus was that there should be another Conference similar to this one in Washington, D. C., during the month of October, 1967.
Adjournment;
The feeling of everyone present indicated that this Conference had resulted in much better understanding, and the Navy Department Representatives were thanked for their cooperation and participation.
There being no further business, the Conference adjourned;
ATTACHMENT:
Reported by Frank P. Anderson Chairman Exhibit No. 1 - Tabulation covering Comments on KLL-P-17881B, MIL-P-18472D, ana MIL-P-18682A
SLM00149
REPORT OK JOINT CONFERENCE Navy Department Representatives and Pump Manufacturers
Washington, D. C. - June 2?, 196?___________ __
MH.-P-1T88IB - Pumps, Centrifugal, Boiler Feed (Multi-Stage)
General Paragraphs - Comments discussed.
3.1 - NAVSEC previously had sent letter to all former qualified bidders. Previously qualified manufacturers (on QPL) -will be able to bid under current specification, even if new design is involved. First unit in new contract must have the 500 hour endurance test and shock test. Design report MIL-1302 must be submitted if manufacturer is not on the QPL. Further, as mentioned in the foregoing letter, manufac turers already on the QPL are also required to submit this design report if their pimp has not had three years of satisfactory opera tion in service.
3*2.2.2 - NAVSEC advised that this is only a design requirement - not guarantee.
3.2.3.3 - NAVSEC advised that vibration ha3 not been a problem environmentally except in one known instance, but tests are required.
3.3.1.2 - Comments discussed.
3*31.3 - Ccnanents discussed. 3.3.1.7 - NAVSEC will modify 3.3.2 ~ Pump manufacturers asked to furnish data limiting K factors. NAVSEC
asked if the manufacturers would rather use single volute with shaft below first critical instead of complying with double volute require ments. This question was not answered at the meeting. 3.3,2.1.4 - Comments discussed. 3.3*2.1.6 - NAVSEC advised that individual stage venting not required. 3.3.2.2 - Comments discussed. 3.3.4.1 - NAVSEC will modify per March l6, 1967, discussion. 3.3.4.2 - Comments discussed. 3-3.4.5 - Comments discussed. 3-3-5-4 - NAVSEC will modify. 3.3*6.2 - Comments discussed. 3-3*6.3 - NAVSEC to consider this requirement further. 3.3.7*2 ~ NAVSEC has had problems. 3*3*7*3 - Comments discussed. 3.3*7-6 - Comments discussed.
3.3.8 - Comments discussed.
Exhibit No. 1
SLM00150
REPORT ON JOINT CONFERENCE Navy Department Representatives and Pump Manufacturers Washington, D. C, - June 27, 1967_____________
Rage 2
M3X-P-3.7881B (Contd.)
3*3*8.6 - Comments discussed,
3*3*8*7 - NAVSEC to consider this requirement further.
3.3.9 - Comments discussed,
3.3.9.1 - Comments discussed,
3.3*10*2 - NAVSEC to consider this requirement further.
3.3.11.2 - Comments discussed.
3,3.11.4 - Comments discussed.
3.4 - NAVSEC has had problems but vill consider alternate materials of equal or better service quality as general design application hut not for specific ship application.
3.4.1.3 - NAVSEC vill modify.
3.4.1.4 - KAVSEC will modify.
3*4.1,8 - Comments discussed.
3.4.1.9 - NAVSEC vill modify per March 16, 196?, discussion.
3.6 - NAVSEC vill discuss with staff paint experts.
3.6.2 - Comments discussed.
3*7*3 ~ Comments discussed.
3.8.2.6 - Comments discussed.
3.8.2.7 - NAVSEC advised that it did not intend that a complete set of special tools vas to he supplied with each pump.
3.8.2.8 - Comments discussed.
3*9.4.3*2 - Comments discussed.
3.9*5*2 - NAVSEC indicated that there vas no objection to the listing of Federal or Military Specs.
3*10.4 - Comments discussed.
3.10.5 - Comments discussed.
3.10.5(b) - KAVSEC vill clarify in coordination vith paragraphs 4.4.2.4 and 4.4.3.1.5(e).
3.10.5(d) - KAVSEC to clarify per March 16, 1967/ discussion.
Exhibit No. 1
SLM00151
REPORT ON JOINT CONFERENCE Navy Department Representatives and Pump Manufacturers Washington, D. C. - June 27, 196?...
E^ge 3
MIL-P-1788IB (ContcL. )
4.1.4 ~ Comments discussed,
4.2 - Comments discussed.
4.3 - Comments discussed.
4.4.1.3 and 4.4.1.4(a) - NAVSEC will consider this requirement further per March 16, 1967, discussion in connection with MIL-P-I7839S*
4.4.1.4 - NAVSEC will modify.
4.4.1.4(h) - Comments discussed.
4,4.1.6 - Comments discussed.
4,4.2 and 4.4.2.1 - Comments discussed,
4.4.2.2(a) - Comments discussed.
4.4.2.2(c) - NAVSEC will clarify.
4.4.2.3 - Comments discussed.
4.4.2.4 - NAVSEC will clarify. 4.4.3 . Comments discussed.
4.4.3.1 - Comments discussed. 4.4.3.1.4 - MVSEC will clarify per discussion of March 16, 1967.
4.4.3.1.5(e) - NAVSEC win clarify.
4.4.3.1.5(h) - NAVSEC advised that lineal extrapolation is intended.
6.2 - NAVSEC win discuss with staff metallurgists and win consider nitriding.
6.2.1 - Comments discussed.
6.3 - Comments discussed.
Exhibit No. 1
SLM00152
REFORT ON JOINT CONFERENCE Ifevy Department Representatives and Pump Manufacturers Washington, D. C. - June 27, 19^7_
Page k
MIL-P-18472D - Pumps, Centrifugal, Condensate, Feed Booster and Distilling Plant
General Paragraphs - Comments discussed.
2.2 - Comments discussed.
3.1 - Comments discussed.
3.2.1 - Comments discussed.
3.2.1.2 - Comments discussed.
3.4.1 - Comments discussed.
3.4.2 - Comments discussed.
3.4.2.4 - Comments discussed,
3.4.2.5 - Comments discussed.
3.4.4 - NAVSEC has had difficulties.
3.4.7 - Comments discussed.
3.4.9 - Comments discussed.
3.4.9.4 - Comments discussed.
3.4.15 - NAVSEC -will discuss with staff paint experts.
3.5 - Comments discussed,
3.5.1.1 - NAVSEC indicated intent to avoid large impellers - may revise.
3.5.1.2 - Comments discussed.
3.5.1.3 - RAVSEC will discuss with staff bearing experts but would like recommendations from pump manufacturers.
3.5.1.4 - Comments discussed.
3-5.1*5 - Comments discussed.
3.5.1.6 and 3*5* 1*7 - Pump manufacturers asked to furnish data limiting K factors. NAVSEC also advised that, instead of complying with double volute requirements, single volute with shaft below first critical could be furnished.
3-5.2, 3-5-3-1, 3,5.4 - NAVSEC has had difficulties.
3.5.5.3 - Comments discussed.
Exhibit No. 1
SLM00153
REPORT OK JOINT CONFERENCE Navy Department Representatives and Pump Manufacturers Washington, D. C. - June 27, 196?_______________ _
Page 6
m-P-l8U72D (Contd.)
4.1 - Comments discussed.
4.1.1 - Comments discussed.
4.1.4 - MVSEC advised that prevention of contamination is intended.
4.2 - Comments discussed.
4.2.1 - Comments discussed.
4.2.2 - Comments discussed.
4.3 - Comments discussed.
4.4.1.4 - MVSEC will consider this requirement further.
4.4.2.1 - Comments discussed.
4.4.2.2 - MVSEC advised that net flow dees not include recirculation.
4.4.3 - Comments discussed.
4,4,3.1 - Comments discussed.
4,4.3.1.x - MVSEC will modify.
4.4.3.1.4 - MVSEC to study clarification regarding frequency of readings and meaning of "surveillance.''
4.4.3.2.5 - Comments discussed.
4.4.3.3 ~ Comments discussed.
6.2 - MVSEC advlBed that MIL-S-867 or A$!m A2$6 Gr. CF-8 may not be used in connection with casing and impeller. MVSEC will consider modification to permit use with diffuser and channel ring castings for fresh water service.
6.3 - Comments discussed.
Exhibit No. 1
SLM00154
BEPOKT OH JOINT CONFERENCE Navy Department Representatives and Pimp Manufacturers Washington, D. C. - June 27? 1967________________________
Page 7
M3L-P-18682A - Pomps, Centrifugal, Main Condenser Circulating
General Paragraphs - Comments discussed.
3.1 - Comments discussed.
3.2.2.2 - Comments discussed.
3.2.4.1 - Ccmments discussed,
3.2.7.1.5 - NAVSEC advised that a different set of criteria would apply to grease lubricated hearing.
3.2.9 - NAVSEC will clarify per decision on MIL-P-I788IB.
3.2.10 - Comments discussed.
3.2.14.1 - NAVSEC advised that sea water is required where that is liquid pumped.
3.2.19 - Comments discussed. 3.2.20 - NAVSEC will clarify per decision on 1D>P-17635B.
3.3.2.2 - Comments discussed.
3-3*3.5*1 - Comments discussed,
3.3.3.11 - Comments discussed. NAVSEC indicated proof tests will he ac ceptable .
3.3.3.11.1 - NAVSEC will consider relaxation of this paragraph and will circulate results of Navy tests.
3.3.8.4 - NAVSEC advised no change per discussion March 16, 196? > regarding MIL-P-I7639B.
3.3.10.1 - Comments discussed.
3.4.3.1 - NAVSEC advised that it did not intend that a complete set of special tools was to he supplied with each pump.
3.4.3.2 - Comments discussed. Answer same as for 3^*3*1
3.6.4.3.2 - Comments discussed.
3.6.5.2 - Comments discussed.
3.7.4 - Comments discussed.
3.7.5 - Comments discussed.
4.2 - Comments discussed.
4.4.1.3 and 4.4.1.4(a) - Comments discussed.
Exhibit No. 1
REPORT ON JOINT CONFERENCE
Navy Department Representatives and Pump Manufacturers
Washington, P. C. - June 37, l$6f
____________ ______
Page 8
MEL-P-18682A. (Contd.)
l*.4.2.1 - Comments discussed.
4.4.3 - Comments discussed.
4,4.3*1 - Comments discussed. 4.4.3.1.4 - I2AVSEC will clarify per discussion of March l6, 196?.
4.4.3.1.5(h) - MSEC advised that lineal extrapolation is intended.
4.4.3*4.1 - NfiVSEC advised that this was covered in MXL-P-1T639.
6.2 - Comments discussed.
6.3 - Comments discussed.
Subsequent to the meeting, NAVSEC advised that no modifications to specifications MIL-P-I7639B, M3X-P-18472D, MIL-P-18682A, or m-P-1788lB will he issued by Naval Ship Engineering Center prior to July 1, 1968.
Exhibit No. 1
SLM00156