Document MEZzgXVyp21XazLxM18NZKQj

0001 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 2 NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA 3 EASTERN DIVISION 4 5 CASE NUMBER: CV-P-440-E 6 WALTER OWENS, et al., 7 Plaintiffs, 8 vs. 9 MONSANTO COMPANY, 10 Defendant. 11 12 STIPULATION 13 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED 14 by and between the parties through their 15 respective counsel, that the deposition 16 of JAMES NOLEN SIMS may be taken before 17 MICKEY TURNER, Commissioner, at the 18 offices of Fite & Miller at 4th Floor 19 SouthTrust Bank Building, Anniston, 20 Alabama, on the 14th day of October, 21 1999. 22 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND 23 AGREED that the signature to and the 0002 1 reading of the deposition by the witness 2 is waived, the deposition to have the OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036747 3 same force and effect as if full 4 compliance had been had with all laws and 5 rules of Court relating to the taking of 6 depositions. 7 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND 8 AGREED that it shall not be necessary for 9 any objections to be made by counsel to 10 any questions except as to form or 11 leading questions, and that counsel for 12 the parties may make objections and 13 assign grounds at the time of the trial, 14 or at the time said deposition is offered 15 in evidence, or prior thereto. 16 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND 17 AGREED that the notice of filing of the 18 deposition by the Commissioner is waived. 19 20 21 22 23 0003 1 INDEX 2 EXAMINATION BY: PAGE NUMBER: 3 Mr. Wright 8 4 5 PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBITS: OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036748 6 1-3 - Pages from "Standard 7 Manufacturing for 8 Methyl Parathion 47 9 4 - Drawing 101 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 0004 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 2 NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA 3 EASTERN DIVISION 4 5 CASE NUMBER: CV-P-440-E 6 WALTER OWENS, et al., 7 Plaintiffs, 8 vs. OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036749 9 MONSANTO COMPANY, 10 Defendant. 11 12 BEFORE: 13 MICKEY TURNER, Commissioner 14 APPEARANCES: 15 MITHOFF & JACKS, L.L.P., by 16 Mr. James L. Wright and Ms. Laura Ruth, 17 111 Congress Avenue, Suite 1010, Austin, 18 Texas 78701, appearing on behalf of the 19 Plaintiffs. 20 LIGHTFOOT, FRANKLIN & WHITE, 21 L.L.C., by Mr. William S. Cox, III, The 22 Clark Building, 400 20th Street North, 23 Birmingham, Alabama 35203, appearing on 0005 1 behalf of the Defendant. 2 SMITH, HELMS, MULLISS & 3 MOORE, by Mr. Michael E. Kelly, 300 North 4 Greene Street, Suite 1400, Greensboro, 5 North Carolina 27401, appearing on behalf 6 of the Defendant. 8 9 I, MICKEY TURNER, a Court 10 Reporter of Birmingham, Alabama, acting 11 as Commissioner, certify that on this OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036750 12 date, as provided by the Federal Rules of 13 Civil Procedure and the foregoing 14 stipulation of counsel, there came before 15 me at the offices of Fite & Miller, 4th 16 Floor SouthTrust Bank Building, 17 Anniston, Alabama, beginning at 9:30 18 a.m., JAMES NOLEN SIMS, witness in the 19 above cause, for oral examination, 20 whereupon the following proceedings were 21 had: 22 23 0006 1 JAMES NOLEN SIMS, 2 being first duly sworn, was examined and 3 testified as follows: 4 5 COURT REPORTER: Usual 6 stipulations? 7 MR. COX: That's fine. 8 MR. WRIGHT: Well, what are 9 the usual stipulations around here? 10 MR. COX: Basically reserve 11 except as to form of the question and 12 waive signature and no notice of filing. 13 MR. WRIGHT: And y'all can't 14 coach, right? OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036751 15 MR. KELLY: No. 16 MR. WRIGHT: Oh, that's not 17 part of it? 18 MR. KELLY: That's not part 19 of it. 20 MR. WRIGHT: Let's go off the 21 record just a second. 22 23 (Whereupon, a discussion was held 0007 1 off the record.) 2 3 MR. WRIGHT: Now we can 4 start. 5 MR. COX: You also are going 6 to talk about the fact that this is 7 noticed in a case in which Burr & Forman 8 is representing parties as well as the 9 Mithoff, Jacks & Shields firm and that 10 y'all gave them notice of the deposition 11 and they instructed you to proceed 12 without them? 13 MR. WRIGHT: Right, I will 14 let Laura make a little statement to that 15 effect. 16 MS. RUTH: Well, I don't want 17 to say they instructed us on this OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036752 18 specific one to "proceed without us." 19 What I can say is we told them about it 20 and told them to be in touch with us if 21 they wanted to be here and they chose not 22 to be here. 23 MR. COX: That's fine. 0008 1 EXAMINATION BY MR. WRIGHT: 2 Q. Now, Mr. Sims, thank you for 3 your patience. It's my understanding, 4 based on what we talked about just before 5 the deposition, that you have given a 6 deposition before? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. How many times? 9 A. Once. 10 Q. What kind of case was it 11 involved in? 12 A. A lawsuit, something about 13 Parathion, Niran, whatever you want to 14 call it. 15 Q. Okay. When was that 16 deposition? 17 A. I don't remember. Sometime 18 between '85 and now. It's been five or 19 six years ago. I don't remember the date 20 or the year. OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036753 21 Q. Okay. Your best estimate is 22 five or six years ago? 23 A. Yes. 0009 1 Q. Do you remember any of the 2 lawyers involved? 3 A. No, sir. 4 Q. Was it a case in which 5 somebody was claiming to have been 6 injured by Parathion? 7 A. I don't remember. 8 Q. Was it a Parathion pollution 9 case? 10 A. To the best of my knowledge, 11 yes. 12 Q. How long did that deposition 13 last? 14 A. Probably from about nine to 15 two, nine a.m. to two p.m., my part of 16 it. 17 MR. WRIGHT: Let's go off the 18 record for a second. 19 20 (Whereupon, a discussion was held 21 off the record.) 22 23 MR. WRIGHT: Let's go back on OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036754 0010 1 the record. 2 Q. What was the basic claim, to 3 the best of your understanding, in that 4 lawsuit? 5 A. I don't really know. I had 6 already retired and they called me for 7 deposition in Delaware. And it was 8 concerning pollution. Past that, I don't 9 know. 10 Q. When you said in Delaware, is 11 that where the deposition was? 12 A. Yes, sir. 13 Q. You had to go to Delaware? 14 A. Yes, sir. 15 Q. Okay. And who called you? 16 Do you remember who called you and asked 17 you to go over there? 18 A. Somebody from the plant 19 here. But, I don't know. 20 Q. You don't remember who it 21 was? 22 A. I don't remember who it was, 23 no. 0011 1 Q. Do you remember what kind of 2 questions they asked you? Just generally OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036755 3 what the general subject was about? 4 A. As I say, it was basically 5 pollution, waste treatment, this kind of 6 thing. 7 Q. Okay. I know I asked you 8 this and I can't remember what your 9 answer was. About how long did the 10 deposition last? 11 A. I believe it was from about 12 nine a.m. to two p.m., because I had a 13 flight out of Pennsylvania at five, so I 14 would say nine to two. 15 Q. And the best of your 16 understanding is it was somebody that was 17 suing Monsanto over Parathion pollution? 18 A. To the best of my 19 recollection, yes. 20 Q. Could it possibly have been 21 Monsanto suing an insurance company? 22 A. Possibly. 23 Q. Thank you for telling me 0012 1 that. The point of my asking if you have 2 given a deposition, or one of the points 3 of my asking if you have given a 4 deposition is just to make sure that you 5 understand what this process is. OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036756 6 And basically you understand, 7 I assume, that a deposition is 8 out-of-court testimony given under oath 9 in a lawsuit. Do you understand that? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And you understand that your 12 testimony can have the same force and 13 effect as if you were sitting on a 14 witness stand in court testifying? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Tell me -- I want to go into 17 your background just a little bit -- when 18 did you start with Monsanto? 19 A. April 5, 1960. 20 Q. Had you done other work 21 before you started with Monsanto? 22 A. I worked for Gordon Dairies 23 in Anniston for approximately nine years. 0013 1 Q. How old were you when you 2 started with Monsanto? 3 A. Twenty-six. 4 Q. Did you grow up in the 5 Anniston area? 6 A. Not born here, but the 7 majority of the time, yes. 8 Q. Now, what was your first job OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036757 9 with Monsanto? 10 A. Classified as an operator. 11 Q. What specifically did you do? 12 A. Well, we had several 13 different jobs. Each one of them had an 14 operator and that was my classification 15 when I first started out. I started out 16 training on the chlorinators in the 17 Aroclor Department. 18 Q. What exactly did you do with 19 the chlorinators? 20 A. We charged them with biphenyl 21 and then chlorinated them a certain 22 length of time, depending on the product 23 we was running. 0014 1 Q. How did you charge them 2 specifically? You turned gauges and let 3 the chlorine flow into the -- 4 A. We used a rotometer. 5 Q. A what? 6 A. A rotometer. 7 Q. What is that? 8 A. It's a glass tube with a 9 float in it that shows you the amount of 10 chlorine you are putting in. 11 Q. And how often a day would you OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036758 12 have to do that? 13 A. There again, depending on 14 which product you were running. We would 15 run anywhere from an hour to six hours, 16 depending on which gravity they wanted on 17 it. 18 Q. Were y'all on the continuous 19 batch process at that point? 20 A. Not at that time, no. 21 Q. So you would run separate 22 batches every day? 23 A. Individual batches, yes. 0015 1 Q. How many batches could you 2 run a day? 3 A. There again, it's how long 4 they run. A day or shift? What are you 5 asking? 6 Q. Let's break it down. Let's 7 start with shift. 8 A. 1221, maybe eight. That was 9 the quickest one we had. From there 10 maybe go to six, four, whatever. 11 Q. When you say eight, you mean, 12 eight hours? 13 A. Eight batches per eight-hour 14 shift. OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036759 15 Q. Oh, eight batches per 16 eight-hour shift. Okay. What were the 17 other products? You had 1221s. 1242 was 18 the next one? 19 A. 1242. 1268. 20 Q. 1268? 21 A. Yeah. 5460 and there might 22 have been another gravity or two in 23 there. 0016 1 Q. 1221, 1242, then it jumped to 2 1268? 3 A. There might have been a 4 1254. I'm not sure. 5 Q. No 1260? 6 A. I was thinking it was 1268. 7 We are talking thirty-five years ago. 8 Q. I know. Might have been 1260 9 instead of 1268? 10 A. Yeah, I was thinking 1268. 11 It might have been 1260. 12 Q. Did y'all do some 1268 in 13 Anniston? 14 A. I'm not saying we did a 15 1268. You said 1260, and I'm agreeing it 16 could have been 1260 rather than 1268. 17 Like I say, this is thirty-five years OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036760 18 ago. 19 Q. I understand. I'm just 20 asking if y'all made a 1268 in Anniston 21 anytime? 22 A. That's what I am telling 23 you. I thought it was a 1268. You said 0017 1 1260, so whichever one we made there. 2 Q. Okay. And then 5460? 3 A. I believe that was the 4 number. That was short of the solid. 5 Q. All right. Those are the 6 ones you remember? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. How many -- I am going to 9 call them lines. Y'all may have called 10 them something else. When you first 11 started, how many lines did they have in 12 operation at one time? 13 A. I don't understand what you 14 mean. 15 MR. COX: Object to the 16 form. 17 THE WITNESS: What? I 18 didn't hear you. 19 MR. COX: That's just a 20 technical objection. It's just made for OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036761 21 the record. 22 THE WITNESS: Oh. 23 Q. How many batches could you 0018 1 have make at once. 2 MR. COX: I'm sorry, Larry, 3 within the Aroclor Department? 4 MR. WRIGHT: Yes. Within the 5 Aroclor Department? 6 A. We had eight chlorinators. 7 Q. So you could make eight 8 different batches at once, or you could 9 have eight different batches going at one 10 time? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. And I assume it could be any 13 mix of these, right? 14 A. The 1242 was the most 15 popular, but it could have been any of 16 those numbers we talked about. 17 Q. How many operators would be 18 on shift at any one time? 19 A. Just on the chlorinator or in 20 the department. 21 Q. Let's focus on the 22 chlorinators for right now? 23 A. Two. OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036762 0019 1 Q. So two operators would run 2 all eight chlorinators? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Eight-hour shifts, generally? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Did you run twenty-four hours 7 most of the time? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Were there ever down periods 10 for regular maintenance? 11 A. Oh, yes. 12 Q. Explain how that worked, if 13 you would. 14 A. Clarify that a little for 15 me. 16 Q. Well, I mean, what kind of 17 routine maintenance would you do in which 18 you would take the chlorinators out of 19 service to do it? 20 A. Packing the pumps. 21 Q. Packing the pumps? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. What does that mean? 0020 1 A. There were -- the pumps had 2 packing in them, had a packing gland on OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036763 3 them that you could adjust to keep them 4 from leaking. They repacked them most 5 every day. They added packing if it 6 needed it, this kind of thing. 7 Q. Was that because the chlorine 8 was corrosive on the pumps? 9 A. That's out of my expertise. 10 1 can't answer that. 11 Q. Okay. Did you pack them when 12 they started leaking? 13 A. You had a packing gland with 14 an adjustment on it and you could adjust 15 them, you know, until the packing got 16 down and then maintenance came in and 17 repacked them. 18 Q. But what I am asking is, did 19 you know they needed to be repacked 20 because they were leaking? 21 A. Oh, yeah. They were leaking 22 into the pan. They had drip pans on each 23 pump to catch them as they did leak. 0021 1 Q. At that time, the Aroclor 2 area was not concreted, right, in '60? 3 A. The Aroclor area? 4 Q. Yeah. 5 A. Yes, sir. OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036764 6 Q. It was concreted? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 MR. WRIGHT: Let's go off the 9 record for a second. 10 11 (Whereupon, a discussion was held 12 off the record.) 13 14 THE WITNESS: Your last 15 question, you said the chlorinator area 16 or the Aroclor area? 17 MR. WRIGHT: I said the 18 Aroclor area. 19 THE WITNESS: The whole 20 thing wasn't. 21 MR. WRIGHT: Was not? 22 THE WITNESS: You know where 23 the storage tanks and all were? Some of 0022 1 that was not. I thought you said the 2 chlorinator area is the answer I gave 3 you. 4 MR. WRIGHT: We'll clear it 5 up. 6 Q. The chlorinator area itself 7 where the chlorinator sat, that was 8 concreted? OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036765 9 A. Right. 10 Q. But there were other parts of 11 the Aroclor Department that were not 12 concreted at that time? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Did there come a time when 15 the entire Aroclor Department got 16 concreted? 17 A. I can't answer that. I 18 wasn't there, in other words. 19 Q. So you moved to a different 20 job? 21 A. Oh, yeah. 22 Q. Okay. How long were you in 23 the Aroclor Department? 0023 1 A. The first time, approximately 2 six months. 3 Q. Iam going -- we are going to 4 come back to that, but let me trace your 5 job history and then we'll come back to 6 the Aroclor Department. 7 A. Okay. 8 Q. So the first six months you 9 worked in the Aroclor Department. Then 10 where did you go? 11 A. Niran Department. OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036766 12 Q. What was your job there? 13 A. Operator. 14 Q. What was your specific job 15 duties? 16 A. When I first went over there, 17 we made slurries and that was my job when 18 I first went there for maybe the first 19 six months or so. 20 Q. What does that mean, making a 21 slurry? 22 A. You mix acetone, PNP and soda 23 ash into a slurry that's used in the 0024 1 condensation reactors. 2 Q. Used in the what? 3 A. Condensation reactors. 4 Q. Was that your only job? 5 A. No, that was about the first 6 six months. 7 Q. Okay. Then what did you do? 8 A. I went to -- there was two 9 people. Two made slurries. When we 10 weren't doing that, one drummed and the 11 other one looked after waste treatment. 12 Q. Tell me about each of those 13 jobs. What did the one that was drumming 14 do? OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036767 15 A. Drummed out Parathion in the 16 mostly 55-gallon drums. 17 Q. Does that mean load the 18 Parathion into the drums? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. How did you do that? With a 21 hose? 22 A. No. There's a loading line. 23 Drums sitting on scales brought it up to 0025 1 weight. 2 Q. So you would roll it up to 3 the -- what would you roll it up to? 4 A. The weight or the drum? What 5 are you talking about rolling it up? 6 Q. Well, maybe I misunderstood 7 you. You said there was a loading line, 8 right? 9 A. Right. 10 Q. With rollers? 11 A. Drumming line. 12 Q. Drumming line. 13 A. Loading drums, whatever. 14 Q. Okay. And what was on 15 rollers? 16 A. The drums. You would roll 17 them up on the scales, fill them, roll OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036768 18 them off the scales on drums and carry 19 them to the warehouse. 20 Q. With a forklift, I assume? 21 A. (Witness nods head.) 22 Q. The other operator, you said, 23 was dealing with the waste? 0026 1 A. Waste treatment. 2 Q. Explain that, if you would. 3 A. We took readings off the air 4 compressors, caught samples out of the 5 basins, carried them to the lab for 6 analysis and made adjustments as 7 necessary. 8 Q. Caught samples of the 9 product, the Parathion? 10 A. Waste, waste treatment, 11 samples of the waste. 12 Q. Where did the waste come 13 from? 14 A. That's sort of broad. From 15 the Parathion Department, is that what 16 you are asking? 17 Q. Well, no. Right now, I'm 18 just focusing on what you did when you 19 were an operator doing that job. You 20 said you took samples of waste and took OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036769 21 them to the lab? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Where did you get the samples 0027 1 from? 2 A. Out of the basins. 3 Q. What basins? 4 A. The waste treatment basins. 5 Left -- go ahead. 6 Q. Can you draw a picture of the 7 Niran facility? 8 A. No, I'm not an artist, but I 9 will answer your questions if you will 10 make them a little clearer. We're talking 11 about a big area. 12 MR. COX: He's talking about 13 the large concrete lagoon, biological 14 treatment for the waste water that was 15 generated out of the Parathion unit, if 16 that helps. 17 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. That 18 helps. 19 A. Where the waste come from? 20 Q. Right. 21 A. Is that what you are asking? 22 Q. That's what I'm asking. 23 A. It came out of the OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036770 0028 1 department, went down through some 2 limestone pits to a holding tank. It was 3 pumped from there into the basins and 4 that's where we sampled it, checking the 5 PH, air, and it went from the basins into 6 a clarifier, sludge settled out and the 7 overflow went to the city after it was 8 sampled. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. Now -- 11 Q. Go ahead. 12 A. Just, go back to where we was 13 now, since we've got an idea of how the 14 waste run. 15 Q. And you would take samples 16 out of the concrete pits? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Would you take -- 19 A. We called them basins, yes. 20 Q. The basins. Would you take 21 samples out of the limestone pits as 22 well? 23 A. No. 0029 1 Q. So the only place you took 2 samples was from the basins? OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036771 3 A. And the overflow going to the 4 city. 5 Q. You took them two places? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And you said that, depending 8 on what the lab said, you would adjust 9 something? 10 A. We had huge blowers feeding 11 air in there to keep the bacteria alive. 12 We checked the PH to keep it neutral. 13 Depending on what the lab called back, we 14 adjusted the air flow or the PH. 15 Q. How long were you in that 16 job? 17 A. Probably six months. 18 Q. Then where did you go? 19 A. In the Parathion Department? 20 We are still in the Parathion Department? 21 Q. Iam just asking what your 22 next job was after the one you just 23 described. 0030 1 A. Running the thio acid. 2 Q. And what did that entail. 3 A. We used alcohol and P2 S5 to 4 make thio acid, which is -- we put a heel 5 in the tank, we put the P2 S5 in it and OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036772 6 put the alcohol into it and that come out 7 as thio acid. 8 Q. How long did it take for it 9 to turn into good thio acid? 10 A. There again, we are talking 11 thirty-five years ago. With two 12 reactors, we would usually get two or 13 three batches per shift, I think. 14 Q. And that was your sole job, 15 was to make that thio acid? 16 A. In that position, yes. 17 Q. How long did you stay in that 18 position? 19 A. Maybe a couple of years. 20 Q. Then what was your next job? 21 A. Condensation reactors. 22 Q. Still in the Parathion 23 Department? 0031 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. What exactly did you do in 3 that job? 4 A. We took the slurries we 5 referred to earlier. They were pumped to 6 condensation reactors and we added an 7 intermediate to that to make the finished 8 produce, the Parathion. OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036773 9 Q. What was the intermediate 10 that you added? 11 A. Pardon? 12 Q. You said you added an 13 intermediate? What was the intermediate 14 that you added? Do you remember? 15 A. No. We called it 16 intermediate. 17 Q. All right. I think I have a 18 diagram here. If I do, it will help me 19 understand it better and it might refresh 20 your recollection. 21 Okay. Just for the record, 22 this has two numbers, Bates numbers, 23 M17434 and DSW 050882. If s a page from 0032 1 the document entitled, "Standard 2 Manufacturing Process for Methyl 3 Intermediate and Methyl Parathion, 4 January, 1963." So that would be about 5 the time you were there, right? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. I think thisis the waste 8 system you were just explaining? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Up here at the top left, it 11 says, "Waste H20 Organics." And where, OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036774 12 again, is this waste coming from? 13 A. From the department. 14 Q. It's just all of the waste 15 from the Parathion Department? 16 A. This is located north of the 17 department. 18 Q. Okay. And it goes into 19 limestone neutralization pits, then goes 20 into these concrete hold basins and 21 that's what you would sample, right? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Okay. 0033 1 A. We were sampling up here 2 (indicating). 3 Q. The aeration basins? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Now, what's this coming in 6 here through the air filter and the air 7 blowers? 8 A. Just pulling air in through 9 the filters into the basins. 10 Q. I've got you. 11 A. Furnishing air for the -- 12 Q. All right. I think this is 13 intended to be a schematic diagram of the 14 whole process. I will ask you about that OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036775 15 in a second, but let me identify it. 16 It's DSW 050881 and it also bears the 17 number M17433. It's the previous page in 18 the document that I just mentioned. Can 19 you make that out? 20 A. This is -- I don't see thio 21 acid on here. This must be the -- 22 Q. Okay. See if that one is 23 better. 0034 1 MR. COX: That, for the 2 record, is DSW 050880. 3 A. Okay. Here's thio acid 4 reactor, going up to it (indicating). 5 Okay. Now, where were we? 6 Q. We were just talking about 7 the process. This one, this most recent 8 one, 050880, shows the thio acid process 9 that you were describing earlier, right? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Okay. And, then, does this 12 one show after the thio acid is made 13 where the, or how the Parathion is made? 14 By "this one," I am talking about 050881. 15 A. Okay. This is going to be 16 your hold tank. That's what we called 17 it. I don't know the technical name for OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036776 18 it. We put the slurries into the 19 condensation reactor and added acetone. 20 Q. That shows acetone and water 21 going in there? 22 A. Yes. This is a slurry tank. 23 This is the intermediate weight tank 0035 1 (indicating). It comes out and goes to 2 the crude Niran hold tank and into the 3 wash column. 4 Q. What was the wash column? 5 Describe that for me, if you would. 6 A. It was a column about two 7 foot in diameter, probably twenty foot 8 tall. 9 Q. What was its purpose, if you 10 know? 11 A. Probably to clean the PNP out 12 of the Parathion. 13 Q. Then it comes out of there -- 14 A. Goes to the settler. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. Into the dehydrator storage 17 tank, polished goods tank, finished goods 18 tank, into the drum. 19 Q. Was this area concreted? 20 MR. COX: When you are saying OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036777 21 "this area," you are talking about the 22 area of the condensation reactor? 23 MR. WRIGHT: No, the whole 0036 1 Niran area. 2 A. When I went over there, it 3 was. I assume it always had been. All 4 of these were suspended in the second 5 level or the third level. The floor was 6 just grating on the second and third 7 level. The floor was concreted. 8 Q. And then there were sewers in 9 the concrete floor? 10 A. That went to a trench on the 11 back side of the wall. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. The trench on the back side 14 of the wall went to the limestone bed, to 15 the hold tank. 16 Q. And that was the way it was 17 the whole time you were there, starting 18 in the early sixties? 19 A. Uh-huh (Witness nods head). 20 Q. All right. Just for 21 clarification, Niran is the same thing as 22 Parathion? That's just what y'all called 23 it? OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036778 0037 1 A. Right. 2 Q. Sometimes you called it 3 Niran, N-I-R-A-N? 4 A. Niran or Parathion is the 5 same thing. 6 Q. Okay. What job did we leave 7 off with? 8 A. Condensation reactor. 9 Q. What was your next job? 10 First of all, how long were you in that 11 job, condensation reactor? 12 A. A couple of years. 13 Q. And then? 14 A. I went to the -- let me see 15 your layout again. 16 Q. The layout? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. The intermediate side. We 20 had still chlorinators. I am trying to 21 think of which one I went on first. The 22 jobs were not in sequence with this 23 (indicating). 0038 1 Q. That's okay. 2 A. The chlorinators would be OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036779 3 next. 4 Q. Is that still in the Niran 5 Department? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. In that process we charged 9 thio acid and added chlorine. And from 10 there, it went to the stills, which is to 11 distill. And from there, went back to 12 intermediate where we were going into 13 condensation batch. 14 Q. How long were you in that 15 job? 16 A. Actually two jobs there. I 17 was over there eight years, probably a 18 couple of years in each job, just round 19 figures. 20 Q. Your whole time in the Niran 21 Department was eight years? 22 A. Eight to nine years. I don't 23 remember exactly. 0039 1 Q. When did it end, what year? 2 Do you remember? 3 A. Probably about '69. 4 Q. Where did the chlorine come 5 from? OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036780 6 A. Tank cars. 7 Q. Was that caustic chlorine? 8 A. I don't know what caustic 9 chlorine is. We just called it chlorine. 10 Q. Okay. There was a caustic 11 chlorine manufacturing area? 12 A. Yes. This didn't come from 13 there. 14 Q. Okay. This was shipped in by 15 tank cars? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. In '68 or '69, where 18 did you go? 19 A. Back to Aroclor. 20 Q. And what was your job when 21 you went back to Aroclor? 22 A. Chief operator. 23 Q. Chief operator? 0040 1 A. Uh-huh (indicating 2 affirmatively). 3 Q. What specifically was your 4 job then? 5 A. Sort of over the operators, 6 the drummers, the baker and everything. 7 Sort of shift foreman. 8 Q. I'm sorry? OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036781 9 A. Sort of shift foreman. 10 Q. Now, the facility got 11 expanded about that time, right, the 12 Aroclor facility? 13 A. Just before I went over 14 there. 15 Q. What was that expansion? 16 What did they add? 17 A. To the best of my 18 recollection, they added two continuous 19 chlorinators, larger than the single 20 ones. Larger than the ones we were 21 talking about earlier. 22 Q. So up until that time, up 23 until the addition in '68 or '69, 0041 1 everything had been batch chlorinators? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Now, did they keep the batch 4 chlorinators in operation as well as the 5 continuous chlorinators? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Were y'all still making the 8 same kind of products? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. You were just able to make a 11 lot more of them now after the addition? OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036782 12 A. I don't know. I can't answer 13 that. I don't remember what the 14 production rate was. 15 Q. Were you, as the operator or 16 the chief operator, were you in charge of 17 the operators for both the batch 18 chiorinators and the continuous 19 chiorinators? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. How many more operators were 22 there that were required to work the 23 continuous chlorinators? 0042 1 A. One. 2 Q. For both continuous 3 chlorinators? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. So one man could operate both 6 chlorinators? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. How long did you stay in that 9 job? 10 A. Approximately one year. 11 Q. Now, we talked about the 12 sewer in the Niran Department. The sewer 13 in the Aroclor Department, I assume that 14 there was a sewer opening under the, or OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036783 15 maybe more than one, under the 16 chlorinators? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Where did that go? 19 A. Which area? Directly under 20 the chlorinators? 21 Q. I just mean in that area, in 22 the chlorinator area. 23 A. It went into a sewer. 0043 i Q. Okay. Do you know where the 2 sewer went? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Okay. I have seen reference 5 to some limestone pits, but I don't think 6 they are the same limestone pits as we 7 were talking about with the Niran 8 Department? 9 A. They are not. 10 Q. Do you know whether the sewer 11-- well, when were -- well, let me start 12 off doing this: How many limestone pits 13 were there that you were aware of there 14 in the late sixties? 15 A. In the plant? 16 Q. Yes, sir. 17 A. The only ones that I am aware OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036784 18 of is the one we talked about in Niran, 19 Parathion. 20 Q. That's right. 21 A. And one in Aroclor. 22 Q. Okay. Where was the 23 limestone pit in relation to the Aroclor 0044 1 Department? Is it that one that's out 2 between the main plant and the old 3 Highway 202? 4 A. The main -- 5 Q. Yeah, I have seen on the 6 photographs -- that's why I wish I had 7 thought to have one here. I have seen, 8 and this is going to be actually upside 9 down, because this is south. No, this is 10 north (indicating). 11 MR. WRIGHT: Is that right, 12 Buddy? The mountain is here? 13 MR. COX: No, that's south. 14 MS. RUTH: South. 15 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. That's 16 what I thought. The old road came like 17 this, right? What do they call that 18 road? 19 MR. COX: Now it's called 20 Clydesdale. OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036785 21 MR. WRIGHT: Now called 22 Clydesdale. 23 THE WITNESS: That's not the 0045 1 mailing address, but go ahead. 2 Q. Okay. Well, this is Highway 3 202. The way it used to run was, it used 4 to run here and turned and ran alongside 5 the plant, right? 6 A. Right. 7 Q. Just generally -- 8 A. At that time, it was 78. 9 Q. It was 78? Okay. I didn't 10 know that. Where generally was the 11 Parathion Department? 12 A. It would have been over on 13 the west side, possibly northwest. 14 Q. You have to turn it over to 15 figure out the coordinates. Okay. So 16 this would be northwest over here 17 (indicating)? 18 A. Right. 19 Q. So somewhere in here was the 20 Niran (indicating)? 21 A. A little further up. Of 22 course, that's not to scale, I realize 23 that. It was on the northwest side. OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036786 0046 1 Q. And then where was the 2 Aroclor Department? 3 A. About here (indicating). 4 Q. Okay. And I have seen on the 5 photographs what looks to be a pit there 6 and then it has a ditch coming out, 7 something like that (indicating). Is 8 that the limestone pit there 9 (indicating)? 10 A. Possibly. 11 Q. Is that where -- 12 A. Where does this go after it 13 leaves the pit (indicating)? 14 Q. It goes to a drainage ditch 15 that then goes under Clydesdale and 16 eventually, I guess, goes to Snow Creek. 17 A. Up there where Clegorn Lake 18 used to be. 19 Q. Where what? 20 A. Clegorn Lake. 21 Q. Where was Clegorn Lake? 22 A. Right there where you are 23 talking about. 0047 1 MS. RUTH: Yeah, that's 2 right. That's where it used to be at OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036787 3 that time. 4 MR. WRIGHT: Not on the plant 5 property, or off of the plant property? 6 MS. RUTH: Off of the plant 7 property, I believe, on the lake. 8 THE WITNESS: No, it was on 9 the plant property. 10 MS. RUTH: Which side of 11 Clydesdale? 12 THE WITNESS: It would be on 13 the west side of Clydesdale. 14 MR. WRIGHT: Well, we have 15 just got to get the pictures, I guess. 16 MR. KELLY: Larry, can we 17 take just a couple of minutes? 18 MR. WRIGHT: Sure. 19 20 (Whereupon, a brief recess was 21 taken.) 22 23 (Whereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibits 0048 1 1-3 were marked for identification 2 and same are attached hereto.) 3 4 MR. WRIGHT: Let's go back on 5 the record. While we were on our little OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036788 6 break, I marked the three pages that we 7 were talking about from the "Standard 8 Manufacturing for Methyl Parathion." I 9 marked them as Plaintiffs Exhibits 1, 2, 10 and 3 or Sims Exhibits 1, 2, and 3 so 11 that they will be with the deposition so 12 people can refer to them when they read 13 the deposition. 14 MR. COX: Are you going to 15 mark your drawing? 16 MR. WRIGHT: I am trying to 17 decide whether to mark my drawing or not. 18 If you will get us the pictures -- 19 MS. RUTH: You'll have to 20 sign it, Larry. 21 MR. WRIGHT: Yeah, autograph 22 it. 23 Q. Let's go back to the 0049 1 drawing. Somewhere over here by the west 2 edge of -- well, you said by the west 3 edge or the east edge was the lake, what 4 you called Clegorn Lake? 5 A. That would be the northeast, 6 wouldn't it? I'm thinking from the front 7 of the office. It would be the east. 8 Q. Okay. So, between the OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036789 9 Aroclor Department and Clydesdale? 10 A. Right. 11 Q. And that was called Clegorn, 12 C-L-E-G-O-R-N? 13 A. Suits me. 14 Q. I am assuming it was named 15 after Mr. Clegorn, who worked there at 16 the plant? 17 A. I think so, yeah. 18 Q. Now, Clegorn Lake is not the 19 limestone pits that are related to the 20 Aroclor Department, or is it? 21 A. I don't know. 22 Q. So you just don't know? It 23 might be? 0050 1 A. It's possible. 2 Q. Okay. I will put a question 3 mark by that. But we know that somewhere 4 between the Aroclor Department and the 5 edge of the plant is something that y'all 6 referred to as Clegorn Lake? 7 A. Yes. I mean, you are about 8 right on your drawing coming this way, 9 because it's down north, really, of the 10 Aroclor Department to that drawing there. 11 Q. Okay. OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036790 12 A. That was there. 13 Q. All right. Now, going back 14 to your job, that's where we left off. 15 Your second time with the Aroclor 16 Department, you were the chief operator 17 for one of the shifts? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. So I assume there would be 20 three chief operators? 21 A. Four. 22 Q. Four? 23 A. We had a float shift, you 0051 1 know, that gets off there. 2 Q. And again, your job was to 3 make sure that all of the other operators 4 did their jobs, basically? 5 A. Basically. 6 Q. Any other specific duties 7 that you had other than just supervising 8 the other operators? 9 A. No, sir. 10 Q. How long did you stay in that 11 position? 12 A. Approximately one year. 13 Q. One year. Would that have 14 been -- well, do you remember when that OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036791 15 ended? What year? 16 A. Just guessing, '71, because 17 it was - I'm going to say '71. 18 Q. All right. Why did you -- 19 well, first of all, where did you go 20 next? 21 A. I went in the Maintenance 22 Department in the welding group. 23 Q. The Maintenance Department i 0052 1 the welding group? 2 A. Yes, sir. 3 Q. Why did you leave the Aroclor 4 Department and go to the Maintenance 5 Department? 6 A. It was real simple. Day 7 shift. 8 Q. So you were night shift at 9 the Aroclor Department? 10 A. All shifts. Floating shifts. 11 Q. Okay. Y'all would rotate, I 12 assume? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And when you went to the 15 Maintenance Department, you were always 16 on the day shift? 17 A. Yes. OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036792 18 Q. Who were the other chief 19 operators in the Aroclor Department when 20 you were there? And that would have been 21 70 to 71? 22 A. Yeah. 71 to -- the best I 23 remember, they shut Aroclor down in 72. 0053 1 It was still running when I left there. 2 I can't think of one of the chiefs 3 names. 4 Q. You can't remember any of 5 them? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Okay. How long were you a 8 welder in the maintenance department? 9 A. I am going to say five years, 10 including my training time. 11 Q. What was your next job after 12 that? 13 A. Pipefitting. 14 Q. Pipefitting? 15 A. Uh-huh (indicating 16 affirmatively). 17 Q. Would that have been all 18 through the plant wherever they needed 19 pipe run or was it any one particular 20 location? OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036793 21 A. I was assigned to the north 22 shop, which was the Parathion shop. 23 Occasionally, if one department got 0054 1 overloaded, they would move us, you know, 2 for a day or so, but basically the 3 Parathion Department. 4 Q. How long were you a 5 pipefitter there? 6 A. There again, four to five 7 years. Four years, probably. 8 Q. So that would be closing in 9 on 1980 by now, right? 10 A. Close. 11 Q. Okay. Then, where did you 12 go? 13 A. Went back to the welding shop 14 as the shop foreman, in the fab shop. 15 Q. How long were you there? 16 A. I retired from there in'85. 17 So we are talking four or five years 18 there. 19 Q. So you put in twenty-five 20 years all together? 21 A. Twenty-five and a half. 22 Q. Did you work, did you take 23 another job after you retired from OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036794 0055 1 Monsanto? 2 A. No, I sort of went into a 3 one-man welding business of my own. 4 Q. Are you still doing that? 5 A. No, sir. 6 Q. When did you stop all 7 together? 8 A. Let's see. Maybe '88. 9 Q. And since '88, you have been 10 completely retired? 11 A. Basically, yes. 12 Q. Let me go back to that last 13 year at the Aroclor Department then. 14 About how long after you left did they 15 shut the Aroclor Department down? 16 A. I don't know exactly. 17 Q. What is your best estimate? 18 A. A year, a year and a half. 19 Q. Did you know anybody that was 20 working in the Aroclor Department when 21 they shut it down, in any position? 22 A. I am sure Joe Webb, Douglas 23 Rich. 0056 1 Q. Iam sorry. I appreciate 2 that. Let me ask you though, this will OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036795 3 save time if you tell me what their jobs 4 were when you give me their names. Like 5 Joe Webb, what was his job? 6 A. Operator. The same for Doug 7 Rich. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. That's the only two that 10 comes to my mind right now. 11 Q. Are they still around? 12 A. The last time I was out 13 there, they were. This has been a year 14 or so ago. 15 Q. One year or so ago? So they 16 were still working? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. Both of those were in the 20 Shipping Department when I was last < 21 there. 22 Q. What did you hear about why 23 they were shutting down the Aroclor 0057 1 Department? 2 A. The same thing I hear today. 3 It is decided that it caused cancer in 4 mice, that birds, whatever, the eggs, 5 this kind of thing is the biggest thing I OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036796 6 remember about it. 7 Q. And was there any 8 announcement made there at the plant? 9 Did they hand out, I mean, did they -- 10 1 guess what I am wondering is, how did 11 y'all find out the Aroclor Department was 12 going to be shut down? 13 A. It started as rumors, but the 14 actual announcement, I don't remember. I 15 mean, everybody knew it was coming and 16 then the announcement wasn't a big 17 shock. I don't remember the announcement 18 if there was one. I'm not sure there 19 was one. 20 Q. Okay. 21 A. A lot of people involved in 22 it. 23 Q. Do you remember how long the 0058 1 rumors ran before the actual announcement 2 came down? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Okay. Did it feel like it 5 was relatively sudden or was there a long 6 lead time? 7 A. I would say probably six 8 months, maybe, it was talked about before OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036797 9 it happened. 10 Q. Okay. The plant manager 11 around that time was Jesse, is that 12 right? Do you remember? 13 A. No, I don't remember. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. He was there. I remember 16 that, but the time frame I don't 17 remember. 18 Q. All right. Who was your 19 direct supervisor in the Aroclor 20 Department? 21 A. Aroclor Department? 22 Q. The last time you were there, 23 I mean. 0059 1 A. Mark Williams. 2 Q. What was his title? 3 A. Production foreman. 4 Q. Do you remember who his boss 5 was? 6 A. Not the last time I was 7 there. 8 Q. Is Mark Williams still 9 around? 10 A. You mean alive? 11 Q. Either alive or around here? OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036798 12 A. As far as I know, he is. He 13 has had some problems. 14 Q. Had some health problems? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. What kind of health problems? 17 A. I'm not aware of them. I'm 18 not personally involved with him, but 19 just, he - 20 Q. Iam sorry, were you saying 21 something or were you through? 22 A. Just, I don't associate with 23 him personally. 0060 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. But just word of mouth, I 3 heard that he had some problems. 4 Q. Okay. I mean, was it cancer 5 or heart problems or you just don't know? 6 A. I don't remember that. 7 Q. Okay. Now, you yourself, I 8 guess you only spent, well, a year and a 9 half in the Aroclor Department, right? 10 A. Approximately. 11 Q. Do you ever remember anybody 12 going around and setting up monitors to 13 monitor the air for PCBs? 14 A. Not that I remember. OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036799 15 Q. I want to ask a little bit 16 about the health program there at the 17 plant. First, was there -- well, let me 18 -- I am not really sure how to ask it. I 19 know they had a company doctor. Was 20 there a company nurse? 21 A. Let me ask you this. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. When are we talking? 0061 1 Q. That's a good question. I'm 2 glad you asked that. Let's kind of trace 3 it from when you started in '60. What 4 kind of -- well, what kind of a health 5 department was there? And I am using 6 that term health department real broadly 7 to mean nurses or doctors or technicians 8 or whatever. 9 A. When I went there in '60, Dr. 10 Francis was the company doctor. Elmer 11 Schramm was safety personnel then. 12 Q. I am sorry? 13 A. Elmer Schramm was safety and 14 personnel man. And he looked after the 15 first aid and that kind of thing when Dr. 16 Francis wasn't there. But to the best of 17 my knowledge, we didn't have a nurse at OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036800 18 that time. 19 Q. Wasthe doctor out there 20 everyday? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. So he worked out there just 23 like you did? 0062 1 A. Everyday is a broad 2 statement. You know, everybody gets a 3 vacation, but basically every day, yes. 4 Q. I mean, he had a full-time 5 job being the company doctor? 6 A. It wasn't his full-time job. 7 He was there everyday. He had a practice 8 also. He was out there every morning, is 9 what I'm trying to say. 10 Q. That's good. I'm glad you 11 pointed that out. What did he do when he 12 came out there every morning? Did he 13 call workers in to see him or if you were 14 a worker and you had a problem you could 15 sign up to go see the doctor? How did 16 that work is what I am wondering? 17 A. Everybody got a physical once 18 a year. They scheduled one or two a day, 19 like that, or three, ever how many it 20 took to get everybody through in a year. OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036801 21 And then if you had a problem, you know, 22 you could go over there and see him. 23 But, basically, you scheduled so many a 0063 1 day to get their physicals and then, 2 other than that, if you had a problem, 3 you could go over there and talk to him 4 about it. 5 Q. Okay. Did you have a -- I 6 say "you," did the workers have a 7 physical every year the whole time you 8 were there? I mean, was that the company 9 policies that every worker has a physical 10 every year? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And the same doctor -- I say 13 the same doctor. The company physician 14 is the one that provided the physical? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Tell me what they did--1 17 say what they did -- what he did for the 18 physical. I mean, what did the physical 19 entail? 20 A. Number 1, a prostate check. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. Get that out of the way. 23 Just a basic routine physical, nothing OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036802 0064 1 elaborate. Listen to your heart, lungs, 2 look at your eyes, ears, this kind of 3 thing. 4 Q. Did he ask you questions 5 about your health or just look at you? 6 A. He would ask you if you had 7 had problems, you know. We usually 8 didn't. We was younger then. 9 Q. Did he draw blood? 10 A. Yes. Especially after Niran 11 came there, the blood sampling was a lot 12 more regular. 13 Q. When? I'm sorry. 14 A. After the Parathion came 15 there. 16 Q. Okay. When did the Parathion 17 come? 18 A. Probably '57, '58, in there. 19 No -- yeah. 20 Q. Now, you weren't there then? 21 A. No, I wasn't there. I 22 believe Parathion started up, Parathion 23 started up in '57 is when it started up. 0065 1 Q. Okay. So I guess you -- 2 A. That was after -- I didn't go OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036803 3 there until'61,'60. 4 Q. So you heard about how they 5 used to do things before the Parathion 6 started? 7 A. All my experience I am 8 talking about is after I went there. 9 Q. Yeah. I was just wondering. 10 You mentioned that they were more 11 particular about drawing blood after the 12 Parathion started up. And I was just 13 wondering if that was what you were told, 14 or if they got more particular about 15 people that worked in the Parathion 16 Department after you were there for a 17 while? 18 A. All I remember is when I was 19 in Parathion, they checked us once a year 20 for blood. 21 Q. They drew your blood? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Before you went to Parathion, 0066 1 for example, when you were in the Aroclor 2 Department that first year -- well, I was 3 going to ask, did they draw blood, but 4 since you had already moved to the 5 Parathion Department, that first year, I OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036804 6 assume you didn't get a -- well, your 7 first year physical would have been after 8 you had already gone to the Parathion 9 Department, right? 10 A. We had a preemployment 11 physical, yes. 12 Q. Did they draw blood on the 13 preemployment physical? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Was it your understanding, 16 and you may not know this, but was it 17 your understanding that they drew blood 18 on everybody that got a physical, no 19 matter where in the plant they worked? 20 A. It's my understanding, yes, 21 sir. 22 Q. Do you know what kind of 23 tests they did on the blood? 0067 1 A. Not specifically. I know it 2 was checked -- they set up a profile on 3 it and they checked it every year after 4 that to see if there had been any 5 changes. And exactly what they were 6 looking for, I don't know. 7 Q. Okay. They kept records, 8 though, so that when you went in for your OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036805 9 tenth physical he could look back and see 10 what you had -- 11 A. Yeah, see if there had been 12 any change. 13 Q. And that continued all the 14 way until you left? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Is Dr. -- was it Dr. Francis? 17 Is that the one you said? 18 A. (Witness nods head.) 19 Q. Is he still alive? 20 A. No, he's deceased. 21 Q. Were the records maintained 22 there -- well, let me ask it this way. 23 Did he have a specific office at the 0068 1 plant? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Is that where the records 4 were kept? 5 A. I assume. I don't know that. 6 Q. Okay. Where was his office? 7 A. The building is not even 8 there any more. But he was -- it was 9 just west. They had the Aroclor building 10 andabuildingjustwestofit. And he 11 was in the building just west of it, OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036806 12 between it and where the main office is 13 now. 14 MR. WRIGHT: Let's go off the 15 record a second. 16 17 (Whereupon, a discussion was held 18 off the record.) 19 20 Q. When the Aroclor plant was 21 shut down, was it dismantled? 22 A. Yes. For a while they left a 23 little of the still work up on the north 0069 1 end, but all of the control rooms and 2 everything was taken down. 3 Q. The chlorinators, all that 4 was gone? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Do you know what they did 7 with it when they took it down? 8 A. No, sir, I don't. 9 Q. Did you ever go over to the 10 landfill? 11 A. No, sir, never been there. 12 Q. Never once? 13 A. The whole twenty-five and a 14 half years. All that was out of OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036807 15 shipping. 16 Q. Shipping? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. They managed the landfill? 19 A. They were the ones that was 20 responsible for taking everything from 21 the plant up there. 22 Q. Do you remember any of the 23 people that were in shipping? 0070 1 A. Pat Gray, Harris Powell. 2 Q. Pat Gray, Harris Powell? 3 A. They were the two foremen. 4 Pat Gray was probably the supervisor. 5 The other -- not Johnny Edwards. What 6 did I just tell you? 7 Q. Pat Gray and Eric Powell, 8 MR. COX: Harris Powell. 9 A. Harris was probably the 10 foreman. Pat Gray was probably the 11 supervisor. 12 Q. What period of time was that 13 that they were the foreman and 14 supervisor? 15 A. Probably basically the whole 16 time I was there. 17 Q. Are they still alive? OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036808 18 A. Harris is, I know. Seems 19 like Pat, he might have died. 20 Q. Is he still around, Harris? 21 A. Yes, sir. 22 (Whereupon, a discussion was held 23 off the record.) 0071 1 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. Let's go 2 back on the record. We are looking at a 3 photograph that says it was taken March 4 10 of 1969. And it is designated 3-03. 5 And it says it is a one to three 6 thousand representation. 7 Q. Are you oriented, Mr. Sims? 8 Why don't you whirl that around, 9 A. Let me see. 10 MR. COX: Let's go off the 11 record. 12 13 (Whereupon, a discussion was held 14 off the record.) 15 16 Q. You had a couple of minutes 17 to orient yourself. Now I just want to 18 kind of point out some of the things we 19 have been talking about so that the next 20 time I look at these pictures I will know OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036809 21 what I am looking at. Where was the 22 Aroclor Department? You can point with 23 my pen here if you want to. 0072 1 A. Here (indicating). 2 Q. Was it this whole building 3 here or this whole area? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. What was this building here 6 to my right. Let me use directions. To 7 the east of the Aroclor Department? 8 A. Okay, this was a building 9 that used to have a storeroom in it. 10 Offices. Basically upstairs was 11 storage. The ground floor had offices 12 and maintenance offices, the shower and 13 salaried bath house. 14 Q. The what? 15 A. Salaried bath house, for 16 salaried employees. 17 Q. Oh, okay. 18 A. And Dr. Francis's office, 19 safety office, was all located on the 20 bottom floor. 21 Q. I've got you. 22 A. And the storeroom was down on 23 this end on the bottom floor. OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036810 0073 1 Q. Was that building there when 2 you started work? 3 A. Yes, sir. 4 Q. But it's been torn down now? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And where is the Niran area? 7 A. This is the Niran warehouse 8 (indicating). 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. And all of this is the Niran 11 area. 12 Q. All of those pipes and 13 things? 14 A. Yes, this is the production 15 area over here (indicating). 16 Q. Okay. What was this over 17 here (indicating)? 18 A. That was probably the old 19 chlorine plant. 20 Q. Did you ever have any 21 dealings with the chlorine plant? 22 A. No, sir. 23 Q. Do you know who was in charge 0074 1 of it, or if not somebody that was in 2 charge of it, who worked over there? OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036811 3 A. I am trying to think who the 4 foreman was over there. I don't remember 5 who the foreman was. I know Wade O'Brien 6 worked over there. He's deceased. Gene 7 Hill worked over there. He's still alive 8 and kicking. That's the only two I can 9 think of right now that worked over 10 there. I think they just had about two 11 to the shift. Other than that, I can't 12 think of the names. That is the only two 13 I can think of right now. I can't 14 remember who the foreman was. I believe 15 Nick Finley was the foreman there before 16 he went to Niran. 17 Q. Nick or Dick? 18 A. Nick. 19 Q. Nick Finley? 20 A. Uh-huh (indicating 21 affirmatively). 22 Q. Now, we might be able to see 23 Lake Clegom. The next picture I am 0075 1 handing you is a little bit, it looks 2 like it was taken a little bit higher 3 up. You can see more area with it. And 4 it is marked 1.04. And this was the 5 Aroclor Department. What this is OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036812 6 building right here that is kind of to 7 the north and east of the Aroclor 8 Department? 9 A. That's a warehouse. 10 Q. For the Aroclor or for 11 everything? 12 A. At one time, when Aroclor was 13 there, they had a lake here on this end, 14 but right now if s for everything. 15 Q. Okay. I am talking about 16 back when the Aroclor was running in '69, 17 would this have been the Aroclor 18 warehouse primarily? 19 A. I'm sure. This was the Niran 20 warehouse over here (indicating). That 21 would have been the Aroclor warehouse. 22 Q. Just to the northeast of that 23 big white building that was the warehouse 0076 1 there's what looks to be a pond or pit or 2 something. Do you see that? 3 A. I see it. I can't tell what 4 it is. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. But that's the general 7 location of it, yeah. 8 Q. Of what y'all called Lake OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036813 9 Clegom? 10 A. Uh-huh (indicating 11 affirmatively). 12 Q. You can see it a little bit 13 better on this other one, the first 14 picture we were looking at, 3-03. You 15 can see the warehouse building closer and 16 then just to the northeast you can see 17 that same kind of pits area. Does that 18 give you any better feel for it? 19 A. I was thinking it was a 20 little closer to this parking lot. It is 21 in the area, is all I can tell you by 22 that. 23 Q. And that's where the sewers 0077 1 from the Aroclor area ran down into that 2 and then into the drainage ditch? 3 MR. COX: Object to the 4 form. 5 THEWITNESS: Pardon? 6 MR. COX: You can answer. 7 MR. WRIGHT: You can answer. 8 He just objected. 9 MR. COX: I just objected to 10 the form. 11 A. There are storm sewers OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036814 12 probably. But, now, I don't know about 13 the sewers in the department. 14 Q. By storm sewers, you mean 15 when it rained and the water washed over 16 the area? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. It was routed out this way, 19 to the best of your understanding? 20 A. To the best of my knowledge. 21 Q. Was there another set of 22 sewers besides the sewers that carried 23 any rain water? 0078 1 A. I don't know. I don't know 2 how the sewers are laid out. 3 Q. Now, from time to time, y'all 4 would have spills, I assume, in the 5 Aroclor Department? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. When there was a spill, I 8 have seen reference in the documents that 9 there was a steam cleaning process? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Who was responsible for steam 12 cleaning, or for washing down the 13 department for that matter? 14 A. It could have been operators OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036815 15 or laborers. 16 Q. When you were an operator, 17 did you do that sometimes? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Who were the laborers, if you 20 remember? Or who did they work for, I 21 guess? 22 A. They worked for the chief 23 operator. 0079 1 Q. In your second tour in the 2 Aroclor Department, you had guys that 3 were responsible for washing things down 4 and so forth? 5 A. Yes. Obviously, it could go 6 to either group. If the chlorinators 7 happened to be down, or whatever job was 8 down, the operators would clean it up, 9 but if they were running then usually the 10 laborers did it. 11 Q. All right. And when they 12 washed things down or steam cleaned, 13 either one, the water, would that run 14 into what you are calling the storm 15 sewers? 16 MR. COX: Object to the form. 17 A. I don't know that. It might OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036816 18 have been a separate set of sewers. I 19 don't know, because I -- it run into the 20 sewer. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. This steam cleaning you are 23 talking about was after they had all, all 0080 1 could be got up was got up with sand or 2 Absorbol or something like that. 3 Q. Okay. Let's talk about 4 that. Say there was a spill or a pipe 5 leaked or something. How would y'all go 6 about cleaning it up? 7 A. Most of the time, we used 8 sand. Sand would absorb it. We would 9 put it in a metal drum and seal it up, 10 call shipping to come get it and they 11 would take it to the landfill. 12 Q. Is that the way you did it 13 both in 1960 and in 1969? 14 A. (Witness nods head.) 15 Q. You need to answer out loud. 16 MR. COX: You need to answer 17 out loud so she can take it down. 18 A. Yes. 19 MR. WRIGHT: Let's go off the 20 record a second. OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036817 21 22 (Whereupon, a discussion was held 23 off the record.) 0081 1 Q. Was the process, the cleanup 2 process the same in 1969 as it was in 3 your first tour in 1960? 4 A. Yes. Of course, there had 5 been a lot of improvements made between 6 the years. They went to closed pumps 7 with seals on them rather than packing, 8 and this kind of thing, that eliminated a 9 lot of the leaks. And continuous 10 chlorination cut down on the leaks, and 11 this kind of thing. 12 There had been a lot of 13 improvements made, but basically the 14 cleanup as far as if we had a spill, soak 15 it up, and at that time, I don't remember 16 when we started taking it to the mill, 17 but I think it was after then. But, as 18 far as I remember, it was the same as far 19 as cleanup and disposing of the drums and 20 the sand and this kind of thing. 21 Q. When did they switch the 22 pumps from the leaky pumps to the sealed 23 pumps? OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036818 0082 1 MR. KELLY: Object to the 2 form. 3 A. Sometime between '60 and 4 '69. I don't remember that. 5 Q. And, of course, we know the 6 continuous chlorinator came in in about 7 '68 or '69? 8 A. Probably before I went back 9 over there. 10 Q. And then, besides the pumps 11 in the batch chlorination area, were 12 there any other changes made that made it 13 not leak so much between 1960 and '69? 14 A. Most of our problem was 15 leaking pumps at the time. They made-- 16 they updated all of it. Practically all 17 of it was automatic at the time they shut 18 it down. 19 Q. What do you mean all of it? 20 I understand the continuous chlorination 21 process, but how did they change the 22 batch chlorinator process? 23 A. Well, just levels, chlorine 0083 1 flow, and all of this stuff, was 2 automated rather than doing it manually. OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036819 3 Q. Do you know when that was 4 done? 5 A. Sometime in that eight or 6 nine years I was gone. I don't remember 7 the time. 8 Q. How did that affect the 9 leakiness? 10 A. It really didn't. 11 Q. So the main thing that 12 affected the leakiness was the pump 13 changeover? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. What other things would cause 16 spills or leaks other than the pumps? I 17 mean, I guess people could drop something 18 on the floor? 19 A. Drop a sample or something 20 like that. Occasionally, you will have a 21 line leak, something like that. That's a 22 hard question to answer. It could be 23 several different things. 0084 1 Q. And where would the sand come 2 from that they would use to put on the 3 spills? 4 A. They had a sand box filled, 5 sitting out in the yard. If you needed OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036820 6 some, you just go out there and get it. 7 Q. With a wheelbarrow or 8 something? 9 A. Yes, you get whatever you 10 needed. 11 Q. They put the sand on there 12 and let it soak up as much as it could 13 soak up and shovel it into a barrel? 14 A. Uh-huh (indicating 15 affirmatively). 16 MR. COX: You need to answer 17 "yes" or "no" to make sure the record is 18 clear. 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And then the residue, what 21 they couldn't shovel up, would be washed, 22 was it at the end of the shift or -- 23 A. Just when you got a chance. 0085 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. During your shift. If you 3 didn't, you caught it. 4 Q. I'm sorry? 5 A. If you didn't, you caught it. 6 Q. Okay. You got in trouble? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Okay. So, at least by the OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036821 9 end of the shift? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. You would wash up all of the 12 residue from all of wherever you had 13 cleaned up? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And then that wash water 16 would go into the sewer system, or a 17 sewer system? 18 A. After you shovelled and swept 19 it up, you would use the steam system to 20 finish cleaning it up. 21 Q. What I'm saying is, the wash 22 water from the steam system would go down 23 into the sewer? 0086 1 A. Yes. Like I say, I wasn't 2 sure. There was two sewers there. 3 Q. I know. 4 A. It went into the sewer pack, 5 yeah. 6 Q. It went into asewer? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. I will have to talk to 9 somebody else to figure out where the 10 sewers went? 11 A. Yes. OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036822 12 Q. And that process was the same 13 in'60 and'69? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And I assume until the end of 16 your time there at the Aroclor plant? 17 A. As far as I know. 18 Q. Now, I want to go back to the 19 Health Department for a minute, because I 20 kind of lost my train of thought when we 21 were talking about that. 22 (Whereupon, a discussion was held 23 off the record.) 0087 1 Q. She just reminded me. Let me 2 finish this area and then we'll go back 3 to the Health Department and we'll 4 probably be done and we can all go eat 5 lunch. You say the sand was put in a 6 drum and shipping would take the drum to 7 the landfill? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. We talked about the steam 10 cleaner. Did y'all have work rags or 11 paper towels or anything for smaller -- 12 A. Yes. They had wipe-up rags, 13 cleanup rags, yes. 14 Q. And what happened to them? OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036823 15 After you wiped up with a wipe-up rag, 16 what did you do with it? 17 A. We put them in a disposable 18 drum to go to the landfill. 19 Q. Were there separate drums for 20 just trash? You know, were there trash 21 cans and then there were these special 22 drums? 23 A. Yes. 0088 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. For instance, in the lunch 3 room, naturally you didn't have the 4 material in there. You had napkins or 5 whatever. 6 Q. Okay. Out in the Aroclor 7 facility, were there trash cans and then 8 these barrels, or was it just one place 9 to dump trash out in the -- 10 A. No. You had the control 11 room. There was a trash can. Out in the 12 working area, production area, you had 13 drums to put it in, the contaminated 14 stuff, and it would go to the landfill. 15 Q. Was that the same in '60 and 16 '69? 17 A. To my knowledge, it was. OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036824 18 Q. Now, going back to the Health 19 Department, do you know if they ever did 20 blood tests for PCBs? 21 A. I don't remember that. 22 Q. When you worked in the 23 Aroclor area for the people that worked 0089 1 in the Aroclor area, when you came to 2 work, you were wearing a set of clothes? 3 A. Uh-huh (indicating 4 affirmatively). 5 Q. Is that the same clothes you 6 wore during your shift and then you went 7 home? 8 A. No. 9 Q. How did that work? 10 A. Monsanto furnished our 11 clothes, work clothes. They had a huge 12 bath house with lockers. We would go in 13 and change out of our street clothes, 14 have a shower. We would change out of 15 our street clothes, go to work, get off 16 work, take a shower and change back into 17 your street clothes. 18 Q. Was that the same in '60 as 19 it was in'69? 20 A. Yes. OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036825 21 Q. What about shoes? Did you 22 furnish your own shoes or did they 23 furnish shoes, too? 0090 1 A. Monsanto furnished them. 2 MR. WRIGHT: Let's go off the 3 record for just a second. 4 5 (Whereupon, a discussion was held 6 off the record.) 7 8 (Whereupon, a brief recess was 9 taken.) 10 11 Q. (BY MR. WRIGHT:) I asked you 12 about people that worked in the Aroclor 13 Department, and you gave me a couple of 14 names. And I just wondered if -- well, I 15 think I asked you specifically about 16 operators, other chief operators, and you 17 gave me two names. 18 A. The two names I gave you in 19 the Aroclor was operators. I didn't 20 remember any of the chiefs. 21 Q. That's right. They were just 22 operators. Do you remember anybody else 23 that worked in the Aroclor Department OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036826 0091 1 either in '60 or in '69 when you were 2 there, or 70? I keep saying '69, but 3 did you go back in '69 or in 70? 4 A. I'm not sure. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. I haven't got all of the 7 dates of my different jobs. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. It was somewhere in there. I 10 think I went into maintenance in 71. I 11 probably went over there in 70. 12 Q. So, let me ask my question, 13 then. Do you remember anybody else that 14 worked in the Aroclor Department either 15 in '60, your first tour there, or in your 16 second tour? 17 A. Bill Cameron. 18 Q. What was his job? 19 A. He was an operator. This was 20 in'60. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. That's all that comes to mind 23 right now, plus the other two, I guess. 0092 1 Q. Okay. Even if you don't 2 remember their names, do you know of any OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036827 3 of the people that worked in the Aroclor 4 Department that you have heard have had 5 cancer either when they were there or 6 after they left? 7 A. Not when they were there, I 8 don't remember. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. And most of them, I have lost 11 contact since retirement. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. I can't remember one that had 14 it, you know, when we were working there. 15 Q. What about sinceyou have 16 left that you have heard about people 17 that worked in that department that have 18 gotten cancer? 19 A. That's what I was saying. 20 Since then, I have lost contact with most 21 of them. And I don't -- I couldn't say 22 that I know anybody that did or didn't 23 have it. 0093 1 Q. You just haven't heard one 2 way or the other about any of those 3 folks? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Is there anybody that you can OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036828 6 think of that might know or that would 7 have a better handle on that than you? 8 A. The man that's coming in this 9 afternoon is a historian. 10 Q. All right. I will save that 11 for him, then. What was his job, the guy 12 that's coming in this afternoon? 13 A. The same, basically the same 14 as mine. He was an operator. I don't 15 think Dicky ever went into maintenance. 16 He was operator, production foreman. He 17 stayed in production most all the time. 18 Q. We'll talk with him, then. 19 20 (Whereupon, a discussion was held 21 off the record.) 22 23 Q. You don't remember anybody 0094 1 else that worked in Aroclor ever, other 2 than the ones you told me about? 3 A. Some of the ones from '60 4 that are dead? 5 Q. Yeah. 6 A. Joe Adcock, Bill Twyman, 7 Jesse Seay. 8 Q. I'm sorry? OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036829 9 A. Jesse Seay, S-E-A-Y. Little 10 Doc Norton. I don't know his first name, 11 but we called him Little Doc. 12 Q. Little Doc? Okay. 13 A. Harvey Hughes. 14 Q. Harvey? 15 A. Harvey Hughes. Neil Steen, 16 Fred Lackey, Red Haynes. I can't 17 remember his first name. We called him 18 Red Haynes. RayKimbrell. Some of them, 19 1 can put the faces up there, but I can't 20 put the name with it. That's all I can 21 remember. And most all of these were 22 from '60. 23 Q. And those guys are all dead 0095 1 now? 2 A. Not all of them, no. 3 Q. Which ones are still alive? 4 Let's leave it at that. That may be 5 simpler. Or you think they are still 6 alive? 7 A. I can't remember the names 8 now. Little Doc Norton. 9 Q. He's still alive? 10 A. Yes. Read them off to me. 11 MS. RUTH: Joe Adcock? OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036830 12 A. Deceased. 13 MS. RUTH: Dale Klineman? 14 A. Who? 15 MS. RUTH; Dale Klineman. 16 Did I get the name right? 17 MR. COX: I had Bill Twyman. 18 A. Bill Twyman. I'm sure he's 19 deceased. He was one of the older 20 laborers in '60. 21 MS. RUTH: Jesse Seay? 22 A. Deceased. 23 MS. RUTH: Harvey Hughes? 0096 1 A. Deceased. 2 MS. RUTH: Neil Steen? 3 A. Deceased. 4 MS. RUTH; Fred Lackey? 5 A. He's still here. 6 MS. RUTH: Red Haynes? 7 A. Deceased. 8 MS. RUTH: And I didn't get 9 the last name that well. Ray Kimbrell? 10 A. Ray Kimbrell. He'sstill 11 here. 12 Q. (BY MR. WRIGHT:) The guys 13 that died, you don't know how they died 14 or what they died from? OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036831 15 A. No, they retired from out 16 there, and most of them were older 17 employees when I went there, so -- 18 Q. So you know they are dead, 19 but you don't know how they died or why 20 they died? 21 A. Right. 22 Q. One other question about the 23 health area. Other than the annual 0097 1 physical, was there any other health 2 monitoring or health program for the 3 employees? 4 A. Are we talking '60 now? 5 Q. Either one? 6 A. Later there was. I don't 7 know when it started. It started, you 8 would wear a monitor little thing, 9 checking the air that you worked in. I 10 don't remember what year that started 11 in. I don't remember whether it was all 12 in '60 or not, but I do know that they 13 started at sometime-- 14 Q. What was it monitoring? I'm 15 sorry. 16 A. Just take a sample out of the 17 air, wherever you are. If you are OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036832 18 working in an area that you suspected 19 there was something, you could wear that 20 over a shift and they take it and analyze 21 it and see if anything was in it. 22 Q. Did they keep doing that all 23 the way until when you retired? 0098 1 A. They still do it. 2 Q. Do you know what they are 3 monitoring for? 4 A. No, I don't. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. No, I don't remember. Just 7 clean air, I suppose. I don't know. 8 Q. Anything else you can think 9 of along those lines? 10 A. No. After this came up, they 11 would sample anybody that wanted to be 12 sampled for this and, you know, tell you 13 whether you had it or not. I never had 14 it done, but I heard they were offering 15 that. 16 Q. When you say after this came 17 up, what do you mean? 18 A. All of this PCB stuff come 19 up, they offered the employees that 20 worked in it an opportunity if they OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036833 21 wanted to get tested. 22 Q. So, it was a voluntary test 23 deal? 0099 1 A. I suppose. I didn't -- like 2 I say, I didn't have it, but I heard some 3 people did. 4 Q. Iam going to ask you this, 5 but I don't expect an answer. Do you 6 remember any of the results from the 7 people that got it? 8 A. Never heard. 9 Q. All right. When was it that 10 they offered the voluntary testing to the 11 best of your recollection? 12 A. Where I heard about it was 13 from the company doctor, which is still 14 my primary physician, told me that some 15 of them was being sampled for it and the 16 company was doing it, if you wanted to 17 have it done. Like I say, I didn't elect 18 to do it and, naturally, he didn't 19 divulge any -- 20 Q. Sure. Is that recently you 21 mean, that he told you that recently? 22 A. I would say the last three or 23 four years or five years. OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036834 0100 1 Q. I have got you. I was under 2 a misunderstanding. I thought you were 3 talking about back in'70 or'71? 4 A. Oh, no. If they did it back 5 then, I don't know. 6 Q. Who is the company doctor 7 that your -- 8 A. Gehi. Kisham Gehi. 9 Q. I'm sorry? 10 A. Kisham, K-I-S-H-A-M, Gehi, 11 G-E-H-I. 12 Q. Is it an Indian name? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. When did he become the 15 company doctor? 16 A. When Francis quit, if that 17 helps you, eighties. 18 Q. So the only two company 19 doctors in your time were Dr. Francis, 20 until he retired, and then now this 21 Kisham Gehi? 22 A. Kisham Gehi. 23 MR. WRIGHT: Thank you, sir. 0101 1 That's all the questions I have. 2 MR. WRIGHT: Let's go ahead OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036835 3 and mark my drawing as Number 4. 4 5 (Whereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibit 4 6 was marked for identification 7 and same is attached hereto.) 8 9 FURTHER DEPONENT SAITH NOT 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 0102 1 CERTIFICATE 2 3 STATE OF ALABAMA 4 JEFFERSON COUNTY 5 OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036836 6 I hereby certify that the 7 above and foregoing hearing was taken 8 down by me in stenotype and the colloquy 9 thereto were transcribed by means of 10 computer-aided transcription, and that 11 the foregoing represents a true and 12 correct transcript of the testimony given 13 by said witness upon said hearing. 14 I further certify that I am 15 neither of counsel, nor of kin to the 16 parties to the action, nor am I in 17 anywise interested in the result of said 18 cause. 19 20 21 22 MICKEY TURNER 23 OWENS 10-14-1999 Sims, James Nolen.TXT[8/22/2017 4:09:20 PM] HARTOLDMON0036837