Document LKmyvj31xQm1qd2Y1Y0rew3z7

CARLO MARTINO SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES CAUSE NO. BC 374718 -x JIMMIE WHITMIRE and BARBARA WHITMIRE, Plaintiffs, -againstALFA LAVAL, INC., et al., Defendants. VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF: CARLO F. MARTINO Friday, February 8, 2008 Somerset, New Jersey Page 1 Reported in stenotype by: Rich Germosen, CCR, CRCR, RPR, CRR, CLR HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO -- Page 2 1 2 Videotaped Deposition of CARLO F. MARTINO, 3 taken in the above-entitled matter before RICH 4 GERMOSEN, Certified Court Reporter, (License No. 5 XI01847), Certified Realtime Court Reporter-NJ, 6 (License No. XR00168), NCRA Registered Professional 7 Reporter, NCRA Certified Realtime Reporter, 8 Certified LiveNote Reporter, and a Notary Public 9 within and for the States of New York and New 10 Jersey, taken at MARRIOTT COURTYARD SOMERSET, 250 11 Davidson Avenue, Somerset, New Jersey 08873, on 12 Friday, February 8, 2008, commencing at 9:20 a.m. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 APPEARANCES: (CONT'D.) 3 4 McKENNA LONG & ALDRIDGE, L.L.P. 5 BY: KELVIN T. WYLES, ESQ., 6 (appearing via speakerphone) 7 444 South Flower Street 8 Suite 800 9 Los Angeles, California 90071-2901 10 (213) 688.1000/(213) 243.6330 (FAX) 11 kwyles@mckennalong.com 12 Attorneys for FMC Corporation and 13 Union Carbide Corporation 14 15 GORDON & REES, L.L.P. 16 BY: HOLLY L. KERSHELL, ESQ., 17 (appearing via speakerphone) 18 275 Battery Street 19 Suite 2000 2 0 San Francisco, California 94111 21 22 (415) 986.5900 / (415) 986.8054 (FAX) hkershell@gordonrees.com 2 3 Attorneys for 3M Company 24 25 Page 3 1 2 APPEARANCES: 3 4 WATERS & KRAUS, L.L.P. 5 BY: WILLIAM A. GALERSTON, ESQ. 6 3219 McKinney Avenue 7 Dallas, Texas 75204 8 (214) 357.6244/(214) 357.7252 (FAX) 9 bgalerston@waterskraus.com 10 Attorneys for the Plaintiffs 11 12 MAYER BROWN, L.L.P. 13 BY: KATHERINE M. CLARK, ESQ. 14 71 South Wacker Drive 15 Chicago, Illinois 60606 16 (312) 701.7790 / (312) 706.8609 (FAX) 17 kclark@mayerbrown.com 18 Attorneys for Union Carbide Corporation and 19 Carlo F. Martino 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 APPEARANCES: (CONT'D.) "3 4 JACKSON & WALLACE, L.L.P. 5 BY: KRISTINA F. ALMQUIST, ESQ., 6 (appearing via speakerphone) 7 55 Francisco Street 8 6th Floor 9 San Francisco, California 94133 10 (415) 402.3318/(415) 982.6300 (FAX) 11 kalmquist@jacksonwallace.com 12 Attorneys for BW/IP, Inc. 13 14 15 THOMAS WH1TELAW & TYLER, L.L.P. BY: JEAN CHRISTIAN MICHEL, ESQ., 16 (appearing via speakerphone) 17 18101Von Karman Avenue 18 Suite 230 19 Irvine, California 92612 20 21 22 (949) 679.6400 / (949) 679.6405 (FAX) j michel @ twtlaw.com Attorneys for Rockwell Automation, Inc. 23 24 25 Page 4 Page 5 2 (Pages 2 to 5) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 6 Page 8 1 2 APPEARANCES: (CONT'D.) "J 4 K&L GATES 5 BY: JEFFREY N. KINSEY, ESQ., 6 (appearing via speakerphone) 7 Henry W. Oliver Building 8 535 Smithfield Street 9 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15222 10 (412)355.8231 /(412)355.6501 (FAX) 11 jeffrey.kinsey@klgates.com 12 Attorneys for Square D Company and Crane Co. 13 14 KNOX RICKSEN, L.L.P. 15 BY: KENNETH J. MCCARTHY, ESQ., 16 (appearing via speakerphone) 17 1300 Clay Street 18 Suite 500 19 Oakland, California 94612-1427 2 0 (510) 285.2500 / (510) 285.2505 (FAX) 21 kjm@knoxricksen.com 2 2 Attorneys for Leslie Controls, Inc. 23 24 25 1 2 APPEARANCES: (CONT'D.) 4 STEVENS, DRUMMOND & GIFFORD 5 BY: CONSTANCE S. NELSON, ESQ., 6 (appearing via speakerphone) 7 1910 Olympic Boulevard 8 Suite 250 9 Walnut Creek, California 94596 10 (925) 944.5550 / (925) 256-9669 (FAX) 11 davidgifford @ sdglaw.com 12 Attorneys for Crouse-Hinds 13 14 ALSO PRESENT: 15 DAVID T. SANDERS, CLVS, Legal Video Specialist 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 7 Page 9 1 2 APPEARANCES: (CONT'D.) 3 4 HOWARD ROME MARTIN & RIDLEY, L.L.P. 5 BY: PETER TUANN, ESQ., 6 (appearing via speakerphone) 7 1775 Woodside Road 8 Suite 200 9 Redwood City, California 94061-3436 10 (650) 365.7715 / (650) 364.5297 (FAX) 11 ptuann@hrmrlaw.com 12 Attorneys for IMO Industries, Inc., Eaton Corp. 13 and Cutler-Hammer, Inc. 14 15 HASSARD BONNINGTON, L.L.P. 16 BY: BARRY N. ENDICK, ESQ., 17 (appearing via speakerphone) 18 Two Embarcadero Center 19 Suite 1800 2 0 San Francisco, California 94111 21 (415) 288.9800 / (415) 288.9801 (FAX) 2 2 bne@hassard.com 2 3 Attorneys for Bechtel Corporation and 2 4 Bechtel Construction Company 25 1 2 INDEX 3 WITNESS 4 CARLO F. MARTINO 5 BY MR. GALERSTON 6 7 AFTERNOON SESSION 8 9 10 BY MR. GALERSTON 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EXAMINATION 20 142 142 HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 3 (Pages 6 to 9) 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO 1 2 EXHIBITS 3 DESCRIPTION PAGE LINE 4 (Exhibit 1 for 25 5 identification, multi page 6 6 document entitled Notice of 7 Continuance of Taking 8 Videotaped Deposition of 9 Defendant Union Carbide 10 Corporation's Person Most 11 Knowledgeable, not bearing 12 Bates stamps.) 13 14 (Exhibit 2 for 25 10 15 identification, multi page 16 document entitled Notice of 17 Taking Deposition of Carlo 18 Martino, not bearing Bates 19 20 stamps.) 21 (Exhibit 3 for 41 5 22 identification, handwritten 23 notes prepared by the 24 witness, not bearing Bates 25 stamps.) 1 2 EXHIBITS (CONT'D.) 3 DESCRIPTION PAGE LINE 4 (Exhibit 4 for 57 5 identification, multi page 15 6 document entitled History of 7 Bakelite, not bearing Bates 8 stamps.) 9 10 (Exhibit 5 for 58 13 11 12 identification, multi page document on Bakelite Company 13 letterhead entitled Phenolic 14 Resins and Molding Materials 15 by R.K. Louis, not bearing 16 Bates stamps.) 17 18 19 (Exhibit 6 for 95 identification, multi page 14 20 document entitled Phenolic 21 Molding Material dash 22 Asbestos Consumption Year 23 24 25 1969, bearing Bates stamps UCASB00916496 and UCASB00916497.) Page 10 1 2 EXHIBITS (CONT'D.) 3 DESCRIPTION PAGE LINE 4 (Exhibit 7 for 114 5 identification, multi page 2 6 document on Union Carbide 7 Corporation letterhead dated 8 February 29th, 1972, not 9 bearing Bates stamps.) 10 11 12 (Exhibit 8 for 121 identification, two-page 13 13 document dated October 5th, 14 1972, not bearing Bates 15 16 17 stamps.) (Exhibit 9 for 131 19 18 identification, two-page 19 document on William R. 20 Bradley and Associates 21 letterhead, dated November 22 28th, 1972, not bearing Bates 23 stamps.) 24 25 Page 11 1 2 EXHIBITS (CONT'D.) 3 DESCRIPTION PAGE LINE 4 (Exhibit 10 for 137 6 5 identification, multi page 6 document on Union Carbide 7 letterhead, dated March 14th, 8 1973, bearing Bates stamps 9 UCASBO1929086 through 10 UCASB01929087.) 11 12 (Exhibit 11 for 139 12 13 identification, multi page 14 document bearing Bates stamps 15 16 17 A03192 through A03206.) (Exhibit 12 for 187 12 18 identification, two-page 19 Union Carbide internal memo 20 dated May 29, 1973, not 21 bearing Bates stamps.) 22 23 24 25 Page 12 Page 13 HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 4 (Pages 10 to 13) 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO 1 2 EXHIBITS (CONT'D.) 3 DESCRIPTION PAGE LINE 4 (Exhibit 13 for 194 24 5 identification, multi page 6 document entitled Bakelite 7 Corporation Raw Material 8 Code, Number 1, RM-1 and up, 9 bearing Bates stamps A11948 10 through A11956.) 11 12 (Exhibit 14 for 202 2 13 identification, three-page 14 document bearing Bates stamps 15 UCASBO1875903, UCASBO187675 16 and UCASB00924626.) 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 EXHIBITS (CONT'D.) 3 DESCRIPTION PAGE LINE 4 (Exhibit 15 for 243 11 5 identification, multi page 6 document entitled Federal 7 Register, Volume 55, Number 8 30, Tuesday, February 13, 9 1990 slash Notices, not 10 bearing Bates stamps.) 11 ^original exhibits returned with original 12 transcript by HG Litigation Services to 13 Waters & Kraus 14 (exhibit index concluded) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 14 *Page 16 1 . 2 PRODUCTION OF DOCUMENTS AND/OR INFORMATION 1 3 Page Line 4 (none) 5 6 7 DIRECTION TO WITNESS NOT TO ANSWER 8 9 10 Page Line 229 23 230 23 11 12 13 QUESTIONS MARKED FOR LATER RULING 14 15 Page Line (none) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 S j I 1 | j | j ;; | | 1 I j 1 j | | .f 1 1 j ; Page 15 Page 17 1 2 IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED, by , 3 and between the attorneys for the respective parties 4 herein, that filing and sealing be and the same are 5 hereby waived. 6 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED 7 that all objections, except as to the form of the 8 question, shall be preserved to the time of trial. 9 10 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that the within deposition may be signed and sworn I ( f ? j : | f 11 to before any officer authorized to administer an S 12 13 oath, with the same force and effect as if signed and sworn to before the officer before whom the 1 ? 14 within deposition was taken. :: 15 j 16 )17 18 19 20 ; 21 1 ?22 23 24 25 HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-65 6-DEPO 5 (Pages 14 to 17) 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 18 Page 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO PROCEEDINGS THEVIDEOGRAPHER: Standby, please. Today is February 8th, 2008, and the time is approximately 9:20 a.m. The location is the Marriott Courtyard, 250 Davidson Avenue, Somerset, New Jersey. My name is David Sanders, video specialist of Legal Eyes, Inc., Denton, Texas. This Case No. BC374718 entitled Whitmire versus Alfa Laval, et al. and the deponent is Carlo Martino. The video deposition is requested by the Plaintiffs counsel Waters & Kraus. Counsel and all present will please identify themselves for the record. MR. GALERSTON: Yes, this is Billy Galerston here on behalf of Waters & Kraus and the Whitmires. MS. CLARK: Katherine Clark from Mayer Brown on behalf of Union Carbide and Mr. Martino. THE WITNESS: Carlo Martino. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO (Whereupon, the court reporter administers the oath to the witness.) CARLO F. MARTINO, residing at 125 River Road, Branchburg, New Jersey 08876, having been first duly sworn or affirmed by a Notary Public within and for the States of New York and New Jersey, was examined and testified as follows: EXAMINATION BY MR. GALERSTON: Q. Good morning, Mr. Martino. How are you today, sir? A. Yeah, fine. Thank you. Q. We are here taking your videotaped deposition in the Whitmire case. You understand that, sir? A. Yes. Q. I have been provided with some documents which have been represented to me as your notes from your review of material in preparation for this case, is that correct, sir? A. That's correct. Q. Okay. MS. CLARK: Well, sorry, just for Page 19 Page 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Counsel on the phone? MR. MICHEL: Jean Michel for Rockwell Automation, Inc. MS. NELSON: Connie Nelson for Crouse-Hinds. MR. ENDICK: Barry Endick for Bechtel Construction and Bechtel Corp. MR. KINSEY: Jeff Kinsey for Square D Company and Crane Co. MS. ALMQUIST: Kristina Almquist for BW/IP. MR. TUANN: Peter Tuann for IMO Industries, Inc. and Eaton Electronic, Incorporated. MR. GALERSTON: Whoever appeared for IP, please state your appearance again. MS. ALMQUIST: Kristina Almquist. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Are there any other counsel on the phone? (No response.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The deponent may now be sworn in. COURT REPORTER: (Complies.) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO the record that's also notes on the Baker transcripts. MR. GALERSTON: Okay. MS. CLARK: Did them together in preparation for today. MR. GALERSTON: Okay. BY MR. GALERSTON: Q. Sir, could you please state your full name for the record. A. Carlo Francis Martino. Q. How old a man are you, sir? A. I'll be eighty-one next month. Q. Okay. Mr. Martino, what is your home address? A. 125 River Road, Branchburg, New Jersey 08876. Q. Okay. And if I understand you correctly that is very close to here in Somerville, New Jersey? A. About twenty, thirty minutes away. yes. 6 (Pages 18 to 21) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Q. And if I understand you correctly based upon my drive in from the airport we are near Bound Brook, New Jersey, correct? A. Yes. Q. Bound Brook, New Jersey was the place that you were employed for many years by Union Carbide in its Bakelight Corporation, correct? A. Well, that was the mailing address. The location was actually Piscataway Township just outside of Bound Brook. Q. Okay. And that's all in this general area of New Jersey, correct? A. Q. Yes. Sir, the Whitmire case is set for trial beginning next week. Do you understand that, sir? A. Yes. Q. Do you know whether arrangements have been made for you to testify live at trial if the case does go to trial? A. None that I'm aware of. Q. Pardon me. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Page 24 $ i prevent you from being able to testify in the Baker case either here or in some other location in the next couple of weeks or so? A. In the next couple of weeks if it does take place I would prefer it to be here. j 1 Q. Okay. A. Because I'm not sure what the situation will be with my wife. 4 Q. Okay. Fair enough. But as far as the deposition going forward in terms of your schedule, there is nothing limiting - limitation in terms of your daytime schedule, it's just that because of your wife's health situation you need to be near home? i 1 -) j j if A. Q. That's right. Okay. Very fair. | Hopefully we'll get clarification whether or not our counsel has been able to work I out an arrangement for us to go forward in one or both between now and the conclusion of this deposition. Pardon me. (Whereupon, multi page document entitled Notice of Continuance of Taking | | 1 j 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 23 CARLO F. MARTINO I understand that your wife currently has some health issues and it makes it difficult for you to travel, is that correct? A. Q. Yes. Other than your wife's health concerns are there any other limitations on your ability to travel for trial or for deposition? A. On me, no. Q. Okay. As I understand the notes that have been provided are in two cases, the Whitmire and the Baker case and that's what you're prepared to testify, is that correct, sir? A. Yes. Q. There is a dispute between your counsel here and I, but between our California cohorts as to whether or not the case is going to go, this deposition is going forward in two cases or in just one. Do you understand that? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Do you know of any reason physical or schedule-wise for you personally that would 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ! 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Page 25 | | Videotaped Deposition of Defendant Union Carbide Corporation's Person Most Knowledgeable, not bearing Bates stamps, is received and marked as UCC Exhibit 1 for Identification.) | 1 | (Whereupon, multi page document entitled Notice of Taking Deposition of Carlo Martino, not bearing Bates stamps, is received and marked as UCC Exhibit 2 for Identification.) 1 | BY MR. GALERSTON: Q. Sir, I'm going to mark for you what I'm labeling Exhibits 1 and 2 to your deposition which are notices of deposition. Exhibit 1 is for a corporate representative and Number 2 is for you personally. A. (Reviews.) Q. And ask you, sir, have you had an opportunity to review those exhibits? A. To read this? Q. Have you had an opportunity to see them before just now? A. I was shown some documents last night. MS. CLARK: Do you have copies of | i 1 j & 7 (Pages 22 to 25) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-65 6-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 2 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO that, counsel? MR. GALERSTON: I have a copy for witness and a copy for me to work with. MS. CLARK: Let me see that, Carlo, this one. When was the individual notice sent? I don't believe I've seen this. Do you know? MR. GALERSTON: It was dated February 1st and the proof of service states that it was served on February 1st. MS. CLARK: Well, okay. I'll have to speak to our local about that. Maybe there is some confusion. I have not seen it. MR. GALERSTON: Okay. MS. CLARK: I think he has seen the other one. A. This keeps referring to my electrical, your electrical equipment. Your electrical equipment. I don't understand that. MS. CLARK: Just answer the questions. MR. GALERSTON: Okay. THE WITNESS: What's that? Page 28 j 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO policy? A. Only with regard to the area I was working in. Q. Okay. And by that you mean the Bakelite division? A. The Bakelite division and the research and development department. Q. Okay. And I understand that the division changed its name in reference over the years from 1948 until 1996 your date of retirement. A. Yes. Q. But when we talk about the Bakelite Corporation, the Bakelite division or the department, we're all, you and I understand we're talking about Union Carbide's business of manufacturing and marketing phenolic resin materials that were trademarked under the Bakelite trademark, correct? A. Yes. Q. Okay. You are the person most knowledgeable with regards to Union Carbide's \ 1 J % i % i 1 1 ! 1 i % \ i p- Page 27 Page 29 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO MS. CLARK: He's not asking you anything about that. THE WITNESS: Okay. MR. GALERSTON: Okay. BY MR. GALERSTON: Q. Sir, have you had an opportunity to review Exhibit Number 1? A. I've skimmed it. Q. Okay. A. Yeah. Q. Had you been provided with a copy of Exhibit Number 1 prior to today? A. No. Q. Okay. Are you in a position to testify whether you would be the person most knowledgeable regarding the various areas that are asked for in this Notice of Deposition? A. At this stage too. Q. Okay. Are you the person most knowledgeable at Union Carbide to testify with regards to Union Carbide's document retention 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 acquisition and mergers with related 3 phenolic-type corporations, correct? 4 MS. CLARK: Okay. 5 Vague. 6 A. I was not involved in those 7 activities, but I cannot give you the name of 8 anyone that is alive today that could provide any 9 more information than I could. 10 Q. Okay. 11 Other than Union Carbide 12 purchasing Bakelite Corporation and trying to get 13 into its own entity - 14 A. Uh-huh. 15 Q. - are you aware of any other 16 corporate acquisitions or mergers that Union 17 Carbide had with other phenolic resin companies? 18 A. Domestic? 19 Q. Domestic or international. 20 A. Domestic, no. International, we 21 did have affiliates that were partially owned or 22 fully owned. 23 Q. Okay. 24 ki What companies are you thinking of when you say that there were affiliates to Union | i; f 3 * l % ft 8 (Pages 26 to 29) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 3 0 Page 32 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Carbide? A. There was a Bakelite in Canada, one in England, one in Mexico. I believe for a time there was an association with a Japanese company. Q. Now, do you know if these were acquisitions or mergers or were these companies that were set up by Union Carbide? A. That I don't know. Q. Okay. We'll talk more specifically with regards to Bakelite Canada later, but do you know whether or not Bakelite Canada, Bakelite Japan or Bakelite Mexico ever marketed in the United States? A. Directly, no. Q. If directly no, but indirectly yes, what does that mean? MS. CLARK: Objection. Form. A. If there -- there are times we obtained Canadian product and we sold it, but they did not directly market themselves. Q. Okay. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Q. If I understand your previous testimony correctly Union Carbide's Bakelite division never manufactured any finished phenolic products, is that correct? A. Yes. Q. Would that be true for both thermosetting and thermoplastic products? A. True for thermosetting products. For thermoplastic products, we did for a time have a blow molding business, blow molding containers, industrial containers out of polyethylene. Q. Okay. And what kind of containers were they? A. Industrial drums. Q. Okay. A. And other large containers. Q. Like the large plastic trash bins? A. Yeah. Q. Or garbage bins? A. Yeah. Q. Okay. When was Union Carbide in that Page 31 Page 33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO And I think we'll -- like I indicated a moment ago, we'll talk a little bit more about Canada. At one point in time certain product lines you ceased to manufacture them in the United States, you sent them to the Canadian company, they manufactured it and then sold it back to you, Bakelite United States for distribution in the United States, is that correct? A. That was done on occasion. It wasn't common practice. Q. To the best of your knowledge it never happened with Mexico? A. No. Q. Did Union Carbide Bakelite division acquire any other companies in the United States that were manufacturing and marketing phenolic products? A. How far back do you want to go on that? Q. Let's go back to Union Carbide's acquisition of Bakelite Corporation in 1937? A. Yeah, none that I'm aware of. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO business, that line of manufacturing? MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. A. It was during the time I was there. I don't recall the exact dates. Q. Other than these blow molding plastic containers, did Union Carbide ever market any other finished products either I guess in the thermoplastics division? A. We also had a film division that manufactured Glad products. Q. And those are consumer products, correct? A. Pardon? Q. Those are consumer products, correct? A. Yes. Plastic wrap, bags, food bags. Q. Okay. Any other plastics the thermoplastic division sold? A. We also had a straw business, you know, straw to be used in soda cans, that sort of thing. 9 (Pages 30 to 33) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-65 6-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 34 Page 36 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Q. Like Dixie? A. (Indicating.) Q. Like Dixie straws? A. Yeah. That was a short period of time. Q. Okay. Anything else you can recall? A. For a time we also manufactured vinyl upholstery. Q. Okay. Anything else? A. If there are, were any others, I don't recall them. Those are the big ones. Q. Okay. We previously discussed and we'll get to it in a moment about the thermosetting products that contained asbestos. Did any of the thermoplastics products that Union Carbide manufactured and sold or even compounded even contain asbestos? A. None that I was aware of. Q. The third area of inquiry in the Notice of Deposition which is attached as Exhibit Number 1 to your deposition asks for a person 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Vague. Over - A. The power what? MS. CLARK: Wait. Q. Power generation? MS. CLARK: Vague. Overly broad. Just give me a chance. THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. MS. CLARK: If I'm making an objection, don't answer until I make it. Thank you. THE WITNESS: Okay. A. Not aware of any sales to power generators at all. Q. Okay. Thermosetting products is not something that would be normally sold to power generators because power generators would be an end user of thermosetting products, correct? MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Overly broad. A. They would be users of equipment that had thermosetting products in them. Direct Page 3 5 Page 37 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO knowledgable regarding sales catalogs, brochures, spec sheets, et cetera, with regards to Union Carbide's materials that were sold to Pacific Gas & Electric. Are you the person most knowledgeable with regards to Union Carbide Bakelite division sales to Pacific Gas & Electric? A. If they -- I had never -- I guess I am the most knowledgeable at this point, yes. Q. Okay. What knowledge, if any, do you have of sales made by Union Carbide to Pacific Gas & Electric? A. I'm not -- MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Overly broad. A. I'm not aware of any sales to them. Q. Are you aware of sales by Union Carbide to the power production industries in general? MS. CLARK: Objection. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO purchase of parts, of individual parts, I don't think so. Q. Okay. If I understand you correctly, and please correct me where I'm wrong, Union Carbide would compound and create the thermosetting materials which would be in various states be they granular or in powder form or whatever that would be sold to equipment manufacturers who would then use the raw material or the compounded material that Union Carbide had made, they would then inject it into their molds and their presses creating fittings which would then be used in electrical equipment and products that may have been sold to end users, porrect? MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Overly broad. Assumes facts. A. Well, Union Carbide made resins and molding materials and they were both sold to companies that would use those resins to make products. In the case of resins, they make laminates. In the case of molding materials it 10 (Pages 34 to 37) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 3 8 Page 40 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO would go to molders who would make whatever was required, whatever business they were in. Q. Okay. And I guess the point that I'm getting to is companies like Pacific Gas & Electric which were in the power generation business, they would not be in a situation to use the semi raw materials that Union Carbide was selling for thermosetting, correct? A. Yeah, I'm not aware of a company like that doing their own manufacturing of parts. Q. Okay. So the Number 4 area of inquiry which is information pertaining to model number, model name, symbol of Union Carbide's materials sold to Pacific Gas & Electric would be, nobody would be knowledgeable of that because they weren't being sold to Pacific Gas & Electric, right? A. That's right. Q. Likewise for area Number 5 with regards to packaging and logos associated with sales to Pacific Gas & Electric, no one would be knowledgeable about that because those sales did 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO it says the relevant time period to Pacific Gas & Electric again. A. The reference says your electrical equipment. I don't understand that. Q. Okay. You are familiar with sales of Union Carbide's Bakelite materials to Rostone, Allen-Bradley, Eaton, Rockwell, Cutler-Hammer and Square D, are you not? A. I'm aware of material sales, plastic material sales to Allen-Bradley, Cutler-Hammer and Square D. Rockwell, I would have to check the records. Same with the others. Q. Okay. Is there anyone who would be more knowledgeable with regard to those issues of sales than you with Union Carbide now? MR. CLARK: Objection. Misstates the description in the notice. A. At this stage I can't think of anyone else. Q. Pardon me. (Whereupon, handwritten notes Page 39 Page 41 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO not take place? A. That's correct. Q. Assume with me Section 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 all pertain to various aspects of sales to Pacific Gas & Electric. There would be no one knowledgeable with regard to those areas because Union Carbide did not make those type of sales, correct? A. That's, that's correct. Q. Section 12 calls for information pertaining to persons including but not limited to Oneida Rostone Corporation, Rostone Corporation, Allen-Bradley, Eaton Corporation, Rockwell Automation, Cutler-Hammer, Inc. and/or Square D, involved in supplying, molding, forming, fabricating and/or assembly of any and all of Union Carbide's equipment and/or asbestos-containing products which Union Carbide manufactured, assembled, sold or distributed prior to and during the relevant time period. A. (Reviews.) Q. Would you be the person most knowledgeable with regard to those sales, sir? MR. CLARK: Just for completeness, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO prepared by the witness, not bearing Bates stamps, is received and marked as UCC Exhibit 3 for Identification.) BY MR. GALERSTON: Q. Sir, I'd like to mark your notes as Exhibit Number 3 to the deposition. If you would be so kind as to mark those. A. Sure. You have a copy, don't you? Q. I do. I do. But I'd like to get a copy - I'd like to attach it to your original notes. A. The original. Q. Yes, sir, because in all likelihood it's probably going to be much easier to read than what I have here. A. Okay. Q. All right, sir. What we've now marked as Exhibit 3 which I understand are your handwritten notes from your review of materials in preparation for today's deposition, correct? A. Q. Yes. Okay. 11 (Pages 38 to 41) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 42 Page 44 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO What did you review in preparation for the deposition? A. There were I believe ten volumes of Whitmire depositions. Q. You mean Mr. Whitmire? A. Yes. Q. A. Okay. I think there were three volumes of Nance, yes, Donald Nance depositions. Q. Okay. That would be again related to a co-worker of Mr. Whitmire's? A. Yes. Q. Okay. A. There were three volumes. And then two volumes of the Baker depositions. Q. Okay. You have not reviewed any Union Carbide documents related to Union Carbide sales to any of the relevant Defendants in this case. Is that fair to say? MS. CLARK: Objection. Overly broad. Vague. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO 11th, 2007. Do you remember that, sir? A. Yes. Q. Okay. That was in the Donald Eubanks case, remember? A. Yes. Q. We were talking about Union Carbide's Bakelite products being sold to Square D, Cutler-Hammer, Eaton electric, Allen-Bradley, very similar cast of characters as we have in this case. Do you recall that, sir? A. Yes. Q. Okay. In that deposition we discussed generally the, your recollections of sales to those companies. Do you recall that? A. Uh-huh, yes. Q. Okay. Since that time of your deposition have you reviewed any additional materials related to Union Carbide sales, marketing Page 43 Page 45 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Beyond the scope of the notice. A. What do you mean by Defendants? Q. Square D, Union Carbide, General Electric, Westinghouse. A. Oh, the others in the case. MS. CLARK: Same objections. A. No, I have not. Q. Okay. Is it safe to assume that you haven't reviewed any documents relative to the case other than the depositions? A. That's correct. Other than these, I saw this one. Q. Okay. The Notice of Deposition? A. Yes. Q. Okay. You have not reviewed any Union Carbide materials or any documents from the Union Carbide Bakelite repository, correct? A. Q. No. Okay. Last time you and I met was in, I deposed you on - oops. Wrong deposition. July 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 h2s4 CARLO F. MARTINO activities of its Bakelite products to Square D, Allen-Bradley or Cutler-Hammer? A. No. Q. Okay. Is it -- would it be fair for me to rely upon the testimony that you gave in the Donald Eubanks case in understanding what you know about Union Carbide sales to Square D, Allen-Bradley and Cutler-Hammer? MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. A. Yes. Q. Okay. When is the last time that you reviewed Union Carbide documents from the Bakelite repository? A. Gee, I, I don't recall. Q. Okay. You went to work for Union Carbide in 1948, correct? A. Yes. Q. You retired in 1996? A. Yes, yes. Q. In 1996 shortly thereafter you 12 (Pages 42 to 45) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 46 Page 48 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO began testifying on behalf of Union Carbide? A. Yes. Q. As a consultant, correct? A. Yes. Q. In the last eleven years you have given how many depositions on behalf of Union Carbide? A. Over a dozen, yeah. Q. Okay. A. Some are between a dozen and a dozen and a half. Q. And I believe you testified two or three times at trial, is that correct? A. Two times. Q. Since you retired from Union Carbide can you tell me how many times you have gone to Chicago and reviewed documents in the Union Carbide Bakelite repository? A. I have not been in the repository. Q. I- A. When I first started I requested certain documents and was given those documents to review when it pertained to a case that I was involved in. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO referred to or went back and reviewed attachments to your depositions? A. Before the last deposition. Q. In Eubanks? A. Yeah, I did refer to the documents, I refreshed my memory on certain information. Now, those were more, those were documents I'd gotten from literature. I can't really give you a date when was the last time. Q. Okay. And when you say - in the Eubanks case we rightly or wrongly focused in on arc chutes. Do you recall that? A. That's right. Q. And as I recall, you had a couple of documents I think you pulled up off the Internet - A. That's right. Q. - with regards to arc chutes? A. That's right. Q. Okay. Page 47 Page 49 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Q. Okay. You understand the repository is really just forty-six boxes of material? A. Yeah, yes. Q. Okay. They're kept at counsel's office in Mayer Brown's office? A. Uh-huh. Q. When is the last time you requested to see documents that were stored in the repository? A. None within the past few years that I recall. Q. So in the last few years you have relied on your memory for your basis for your testimony. Is that fair to say? MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Misstates testimony. A. Some of the information was attached to some of the documents that I had given that I could make reference to. Q. When was the last time you !i1! I1-"y"'JJ;!!''yi v"J.I ;J1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO And when you say that you looked at some literature, is that what you were referring to? A. That and I think I refreshed my memory on the testing procedure for asbestos fibers. That's about it. Q. When you were requesting - early on you had indicated that you would request documents for review. Do you recall that, sir? A. Yes. Q. Did you have an index to the documents that were in the repository and that you could then select documents to review? A. No. Q. Okay. How was it that you determined what documents you wanted to review? A. It was primarily when I needed a formulation on a particular product I couldn't remember, you know, what the components were, and I would ask if they had it and if I could see it. Q. So like BM-5020, if you didn't recall it you'd say send me what you have on 13 (Pages 46 to 49) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 50 Page 52 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO 5020? A. Yes. In some cases it wasn't even sent. I would ask whoever was getting it for me to tell me what I wanted to know from the document. Q. Has counsel for Union Carbide sent you documents unsolicited from the repository? A. I've been sent sales scrolls to review. Q. Have you seen sales scrolls for Union Carbide sales to Square D? A. Not recently, no. Q. Okay. Have you seen them in the past? A. Q. I don't recall. Okay. I'll represent to you yesterday was my first day with the repository. A. Q. Uh-huh. And I saw documents which appeared to be sales lists or runs which had Square D, then it had a bunch of redacted information. A. Q. Yeah. And then there was some other 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO scrolls in the repository. Have you reviewed those? A. Not recently. Q. Okay. There are Cutler-Hammer sales scrolls. Have you reviewed those? A. Not recently. Q. What about the ones for General Electric? A. Not recently. Q. Westinghouse? A. Not recently. Q. You previously testified that the high temperature thermosettings were ones that contained asbestos and were sold to companies such as Square D, Cutler-Hammer and Allen-Bradley, correct? MS. CLARK: Objection. Compound. Overly broad. Misstates testimony. A. We sold some product that would withstand high temperatures to Square D. I don't Page 51 Page 53 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO information that I couldn't understand, but I don't have copies of it to ask you about so I'm going to refer to it in this general manner. A. Q. Yeah. Would that be the type of document that you're talking about when you talk about sales scroll, does that sound like it? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Because it says Square D, would have a year and it would have some product years on the left and there would be some numbers indicating I believe pounds and dollars. Is that a sales scroll? A. Yes. Q. Okay. So I'll represent to you that there are Square D sales scrolls in the repository. You don't know whether or not you reviewed those? A. Not recently, no. Q. Okay. There are Allen-Bradley sales 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 recall if Allen-Bradley or Cutler-Hammer bought 3 that product. I'd have to check the scrolls. 4 Q. Okay. 5 The same materials, the same types 6 of Bakelite products were also sold to General 7 Electric, were they not? 8 MS. CLARK: Objection. 9 Vague. 10 Overly broad. 11 Ambiguous. 12 A. General Electric was not - was a 13 competitor. We did sell to some of their molding 14 locations on occasion, but I don't know exactly 15 what we sold to them without going to the sales 16 scrolls and checking. 17 Q. Do you recall selling to General 18 Electric atomic phenolics division? 19 MS. CLARK: Objection. 20 Foundation. 21 A. Phenolics division? 22 Q. GE atomic phenolics. 23 A. Atomic? 24 Q. (Indicating.) i1 25............... A. Doesn't sound familiar, no. 14 (Pages 50 to 53) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 54 Page 56 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO MS. CLARK: Same objection. Q. Okay. G.E. lamp division? A. No, I did not. Q. G.E. insulating materials department? A. Q. No. G.E. medium transformer department? A. Q. Not familiar. G.E. chemical materials department? A. No. Q. G.E. laminated products department? A. If we did I'm not aware of any of the sales. Q. G.E. semiconductors? A. Semiconductors? Q. A. Yes, sir. I'm not aware of any sales to them. Q. G.E. power tools? A. No. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Carbide's Bakelite. Is that fair to say? MS. CLARK: Objection. Overly broad. Misstates testimony. A. Yeah, I'm not aware of any sales to them. I'd have to check the scrolls to be sure if we did sell anything to them. Q. I'll represent to you that - the documents will speak for themselves, but there are substantially more G.E. sales than the rest of the sales scrolls that I could find combined. G.E. sold a phenolic product called Textolite, correct? A. Q. Yes. Are you aware of any agreement between Union Carbide to provide phenolic materials to G.E. for Textolite? MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. Beyond the scope. A. If there was there wouldn't be the phenolic resin, but I don't know if we did sell them phenolic resin. Page 5 5 Page 57 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Q. G.E. silicon department? A. Not familiar with any sales to them either. Q. G.E. wiring cable department? A. No. Q. G.E. warehouse division? A. Q. No. G.E. housewares division? A. No. Q. G.E. service shops department? A. No. Q. G.E. missile and space vehicle department? A. No. MS. CLARK: I'm just going to object to this whole line as completely beyond the scope of the notice. Q. Sir, I'll represent to you those are all names of divisions that I took from the G.E., the Union Carbide sales scrolls to General Electric. A. Q. Yeah. You're not aware of any of these divisions of General Electric purchasing Union 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Q. Were you ever involved in negotiating an agreement to license General Electric to resell G.E. phenolic products under the name of Textolite? MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. A. No, I'm not. MS. CLARK: Vague. THE WITNESS: Sorry. (Whereupon, multi page document entitled History of Bakelite, not bearing Bates stamps, is received and marked as UCC Exhibit 4 for Identification.) BY MR. GALERSTON: Q. Sir, I'm going to hand you a document that I'm marking as Exhibit Number 4 and ask you to take a look at it and see if you're familiar with it. A. I have seen portions of this. I have not seen the entire document. Q. Okay. How is it that you've seen portions of this before? 15 (Pages 54 to 57) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 58 Page 6 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO A. It looks similar to a document I was shown when I first, on my first deposition of some submission to, with regard to our use of asbestos. I don't recall what the document was called. It was not this many pages. Q. Okay. (Whereupon, multi page document on Bakelite Company letterhead entitled Phenolic Resins and Molding Materials by R.K. Louis, not bearing Bates stamps, is received and marked as UCC Exhibit 5 for Identification.) BY MR. GALERSTON: Q. I'm going to hand you also what I've marked as Exhibit 5 which is a reprint of a presentation by R.K. Louis, okay, sir? A. Yes. Q. Exhibits -- are you familiar with Exhibit 5? A. I have not seen this before, no. Q. Okay. MR. CLARK: Can I see it? THE WITNESS: Sure. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Q. Okay. Is that stamp a stamp that you're familiar with? A. Yes, we used it frequently. Q. Okay. And your familiarity with that is from your work within Union Carbide? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Since you have only seen a portion of Exhibit Number 4, is it safe to say you don't know who the author of it is? A. That's correct. Q. Okay. When you say a portion of it, do you recall which portions you might have seen? A. The listing of the products that contain asbestos filler look familiar. Q. Okay. That's a portion on Page 3? A. Yes. Q. Okay. A. All the rest, you know, what I saw was a summary. It wasn't presented as a history. Page 59 Page 61 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 CARLO F. MARTINO BY MR. GALERSTON: Q. And I want to make sure that I don't confuse you - A. Yeah. Q. - with these two documents because they do have some similarity in their content and their design so Exhibit 4 you believe you've seen portions of it in a legal document prepared by Union Carbide's attorneys, correct? A. Yes. MS. CLARK: Objection. Misstates testimony. Q. And Exhibit 5 which is a reprint of a presentation is a document you've not seen before, correct? A. If I did I don't recall it. Q. Okay. Exhibit Number 4 on the first page it says history of Bakelite, correct? A. Yes. Q. And in the top right comer it says Union Carbide business confidential, 24 25 correct? A. Yes. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 125 CARLO F. MARTINO Q. Okay. You, I assume you don't know who prepared this, you don't know what the date of preparation is, do you? A. No. Q. Okay. Let me ask you about that section that you identified on Page 3. In the middle of the page there is a paragraph that says asbestos was used as a filler by Union Carbide in its plastics which were to be used as electrical switch boxes. plug-in receptacles and radio components. phenolic molding materials produced by Union Carbide which contained asbestos filler were. then listing BMZ-5250, BMM-5303, BMMC-2035, BMRS-2035, BMRS-5305, BMMA-5353, BMMA-5440 and BMMA-5441. A. (Reviews.) Q. Did I read that correctly, sir? A. Pardon? Q. Did I read that correctly? A. Yes. Q. Okay. 16 (Pages 58 to 61) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-65 6-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 62 Page 64 | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO To the best of your knowledge are those the only eight formulations that Union Carbide ever sold of Bakelite that would have contained asbestos? A. No, they are not. Q. Okay. I believe you previously testified that the number of Union Carbide Bakelite products that contained asbestos would change over time as low as ten percent at one point in time and then at a high around 1970 of forty percent of Union Carbide's formulations contained asbestos, correct? MS. CLARK: Object. Wait. Objection. Vague. Overly broad. Misstates testimony. A. Not formulations. I said forty percent of our volume. Q. Okay. Of sales? A. Of sales, yes. Q. Fair enough. I appreciate that distinction. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO think it was with the document I was referring to that I'd seen, in there it said that it had, was made with African Blue asbestos which is crocidolite fiber and there were no formulations available at that time for me to look at to confirm that and I assumed that was correct. When the formulation sheets did become available, I did have an opportunity to check out what we had on 5250 and in those formulation sheets it was a chrysotile long fiber asbestos that was shown, not the African, the Blue, African Blue crocidolite fiber. So from that point on, you know, I changed my testimony whenever I was asked about what was in 5250. Q. Have you reviewed Mary Jane Teta's testimony with regard to the use of crocidolite in Union Carbide Bakelite? A. Whose testimony? Q. Mary Jane Teta, an expert for Union Carbide? MS. CLARK: Objection. Misstates facts. A. I haven't seen that, no. MR. GALERSTON: Which fact is i 1 | | ! '$ 1 i | l \ Page 63 Page 65 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO In terms of the formulations, could you give me an idea of the percentage of the formulations of the Bakelites that were asbestos-containing? MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. A. I don't recall. That changed, as I told you before, it changed over a period of time. The only time I looked at the number of formulations with regard to which contained asbestos and which did not was somewhere in 73 when we were making, putting together the phenolic molding material handbook. And as I recall, it was roughly thirty to forty percent of the number formulations listed, but that doesn't mean anything as far as I'm concerned. It's the volume that you produce that I think is significant. Q. Which of these formulations that used asbestos contained crocidolite? MS. CLARK: Objection. Assumes facts. A. The BMZ-5250 at one point, and I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 1 24 CARLO F. MARTINO inaccurate? That she's an expert or that she works for Union Carbide? MS. CLARK: I stated my objection, counsel. MR. GALERSTON: Okay. BY MR. GALERSTON: Q. Sir, have you seen the testimony that Mary Jane Teta has given indicating that the incidents of mesothelioma at Union Carbide's Bound Brook facility is related to the use of crocidolite asbestos? A. No. MS. CLARK: Carlo, wait. THE WITNESS: Sorry. MS. CLARK: Objection. Misstates facts and the study. A. I haven't seen it, no. BY MR. GALERSTON: Q. Okay. Have you seen the Union Carbide submissions to the EPA with regards to the use of 1 25 crocidolite in its Bakelite products? r < 17 (Pages 62 to 65) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 6 6 Page 68 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO A. Q. No. I take it likewise you've not seen the information contained in the United States Federal Register indicating that Union Carbide used crocidolite in some of its Bakelite products? MS. CLARK: Objection. Misstates testimony. A. That was the document that I saw during my first deposition, and that showed that, that stated that 5250 contained the African Blue asbestos. Q. And based upon your review of the documents in the repository, you believed that to be inaccurate? A. Q. Yes. How many formulation sheets did you look at for 5250 to determine that? A. There was only one there. Q. Do you know what the basis of the filing with the federal government in publication in the Federal Register that would cause them to believe that crocidolite was in that product? MS. CLARK: Objection. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO opinions, correct? A. That's correct. Q. Do you know whether or not Union Carbide has filed a retraction with the federal government to indicate that the statement that was published in the Federal Register was inaccurate? A. Q. I'm not aware of it. Other than your independent investigation, have you done anything to make Union Carbide officials aware that you believe that the publication in the Federal Register is inaccurate? A. No, I haven't. Q. If the Federal Register publication was in 1990, that would have been during your tenure over the research and development division of Bakelite, correct? A. Well, we - I was no longer in the Bakelite business. I was in the thermoplastic business. Q. Fair enough. Union Carbide had sold off and discontinued its thermoplastic -- Page 67 Page 69 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Foundation. Calls for speculation. A. No, that's what I was hoping to find out when I looked, when I asked for the information. Q. Have you pressed further with counsel to come up with the information and the source of the information that was the basis of the federal filing? A. No. Q. Have you attempted to determine whether or not Union Carbide Bakelite division ever purchased crocidolite? A. Q. No. Have you looked in the repository for records that would indicate the purchase of crocidolite? A. Q. No. Have you -- since you weren't aware of Ms. Teta's testimony, I assume that you've not discussed it with Ms. Teta? A. That's correct. Q. Therefore, you have not had an opportunity to explore the basis for her 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO A. Yes. Q. - I mean its thermosetting division, right? A. That's right. Q. Bakelite was - it was sold, was it not? MS. CLARK: Objection. Misstates facts. A. The molding material business was not sold. We went out of the phenolic resin business I think around 1990 and I don't think that was sold either. Q. Okay. Just allowed it to lapse? A. That's right. Q. I take it since you've not reviewed Exhibit Number 4 extensively and only in part before, you do not rely upon it in providing any of your testimony with regards to industrial hygiene work that was done at the laboratory there in Bound Brook? A. No. Q. You to the best of your knowledge did not provide any information or the basis for any of the information that's in here. 18 (Pages 66 to 69) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 70 Page 72 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Is that fair to say? A. That's correct. Well, I - MS. CLARK: There is no question. Oh, okay, unless you need to clarify something. A. Will I get an opportunity to read this thoroughly? Q. That will be up to your counsel. A. Okay. Q. It will be an attachment to your deposition. A. Okay. Q. If you get it, you should be able to have an opportunity at that time. A. Okay. Q. I would like to draw your attention to Page 9 of this document. There is a section called Development of an Asbestos-Free Product. It's hard to read that part. A. (Reviews.) Q. Do you see that, sir? That's the title there. A. Yeah, yes. Uh-huh. Yes. Q. Okay. And, like I said, I'm filling in 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO A. Yes. Q. That's a typographical error there -- A. Yes. Q. - in the date? A. It must be because we were out of the business then. Q. Right. General Electric, I think we had the document here and we'll talk about it in a second, they announced that they were getting out of the asbestos-containing phenolics in 19721 believe, is that correct? A. Yeah, that's about right. Q. Okay. So you would agree with me that this appears to be a typographical error? A. Yes. Q. Okay. I think the next paragraph indicates as you've testified before that by 1974 Union Carbide had successfully eliminated asbestos from all of its products, but in 1975 the Bakelite phenolic resins were dropped from Page 71 Page 73 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO the blank there that it says Development of an Ashes, and then it's all blurred out, but I believe it's to say an Asbestos-Free Product. A. (Reviews.) Q. Do you see that? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And when you read the first sentence that appears to be what it says. It says by 1972 Union Carbide realized that it would be desirable to develop an asbestos-free molding compound? A. Yes. Q. Okay. It's the next sentence I want to ask you about. The next sentence says this decision received added impetus toward the end of 1977 when it was discovered that General Electric was planning to discontinue their manufacture of asbestos-containing heat-resistant phenolics by substituting an asbestos-free product. A. (Reviews.) Q. Do you see that, sir? 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 the Union Carbide product, correct? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Following that is a chronology of 5 acquisition of Bakelite Corporation and it has 6 the dates of purchase 1939 and then some of the 7 different name changes that the company went 8 through. 9 There is no indication of any 10 purchases of additional companies. 11 That's consistent with your 12 recollection of Union Carbide's business, 13 correct? 14 A. Yes. 15 16 Q. I'd like to turn your attention to the last two pages of the exhibit which are part 17 of the appendix. 18 A. (Reviews.) 19 Q. Do you see in the middle it says 20 description of Union Carbide products, excuse me, 21 it says description of Union Carbide produced 22 products containing asbestos. 23 Do you see that, sir? 24 A. Description of powder properties, ill is that what you're referring to? 19 (Pages 70 to 73) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 74 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. CARLO F. MARTINO No, sir. In the middle of the page. A. Oh, yes, okay. Q. Okay. Description of Union Carbide produced products containing asbestos. A. Yes. Q. Okay. Do me a favor if you would, would you read through these. I'm going to ask you if you generally agree with those descriptions of those products. MS. CLARK: Mr. Martino, I'd look to see that before you answer. THE WITNESS: Sure. MS. CLARK: Counsel didn't give me a copy and I need to look at that. Thanks. Okay. Do you want to re-ask the question? MR. GALERSTON: Let me make sure he's finished. A. Yes, would you repeat that? BY MR. GALERSTON: Page 76 | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO upon your testimony and the information contained in this when I read this the 2 indicates that that's a one step phenolic, correct? A. That's correct. Q. Okay. And that's what it says there in this description as well. This looks like it was something that was used for consumer goods, is that correct? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Next is BMRS-2035. Similar - it's a repeat, is it not? Yes, it is. We have 2035 listed twice, correct? A. One is BMRS. The other one is BMMC. Q. Okay. A. The BMRS version is used for injection molding process. Q. Okay. Because it's a resin, correct? A. (Indicating.) Q. So - and it's a liquid form? i f Page 7 5 Page 77 : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Q. Absolutely. Have you had an opportunity to read the description, sir? A. Yes. Q. Okay. The first description pertains to BMM-5303. Do you see that, sir? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Do you agree with the description that it is a low dust, two-step material formulated for appliance in electrical insulation parts? A. Those are generalized descriptions, yes. Q. Okay. Do you agree that it was especially recommended for mechanical automotive applications? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Next is BMMC-2035. A. (Reviews.) Q. If I understand it correctly based 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO A. No, no, no. They're both molding materials. Q. Okay. A. The BMRS is a coarser granulation for use in an ejector molding process for molding parts. Q. The last page of the document we see listing BMMA-5440/5441 which it describes as a general purpose compound, correct? A. Yes. Q. Is that your description of 5440? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Then it goes on to say since Bakelite products were no longer produced, a product description was not available for BMZ-5250, BMRS-5305 and BMMA-5353. A. (Reviews.) Q. Do you see that, sir? A. Yes. Now, the 5305 is not a familiar number to me. That could be a typographical error. Q. Okay. We did see BMRS-5305 listed on f 20 (Pages 74 to 77) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-65 6-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 7 8 Page 80 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Page 3. A. Yes. Q. Do you recall that, sir? A. Yes. Q. So if it was a mistake it's been picked up and carried forward? A. Carried forward to - Q. Throughout this document? A. Just to be sure that number should be checked with what we have in the repository. I don't recall any 5305. Q. Are there any products that you recall that Union Carbide manufactured that contained asbestos that are not listed here? MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. A. Again, it depends on the time frame. Q. Okay. And this doesn't tend to limit to a specific time frame. So if you're aware of another product that Union Carbide manufactured that contained asbestos from any time, could you identify that for me, please? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Q. Was - it was a very poorly-worded question. I apologize and I'll withdraw it. A general use formulation. correct? MS. CLARK: Same objections. A. The BMZ-5250. Q. No, a 5250 formulation. MS. CLARK: Same objections. A. I don't recall a general purpose 5250. Q. Okay. What was the general purpose Union Carbide Bakelite formulation that contained asbestos? MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Overly broad. A. It would be the 353 - the 5440 was the one that we - that contained asbestos we considered as a general purpose material. Q. Okay. A. There was at one time a 5498 that contained some asbestos, but then that was obsoleted. Page 7 9 Page 81 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. Vague. A. There would be a 53141 believe. Q. Okay. What about -- A. If you go back in time, you know, there could be many. I don't recall all the numbers. Q. Okay. You would agree with me that this is not an exhaustive list of Union Carbide Bakelite formulations that contained asbestos? A. That's right. Q. And I'll represent to you that in your Eubanks deposition you did identify 5314 as well as another formulation. A. Uh-huh. Q. I believe you also identified that 5250 was a general formulation as well, was it not? MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague and ambiguous. A. 5250 was a what? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Q. So my recollection was and I'll admit, I'm looking for it in the deposition, but was going from my recollection, if I'm recalling that there was what I thought was a BMMA-5250 which is a general purpose Bakelite that contained asbestos, my recollection would be incorrect? A. The 5250 number does not sound right. Q. Okay. A. We would not have a BMZ-5250 and a BMM-5250. Q. Why not? A. Well, the 5250, BMZ-5250 had long fiber asbestos. So if it was - we would not be using a long fiber asbestos in a granulated molding material. MS. CLARK: Counsel, would this be a good time for a break? MR. GALERSTON: Absolutely. MS. CLARK: We've been going for awhile. MR. GALERSTON: Absolutely. MS. CLARK: And he has to change 21 (Pages 78 to 81) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 82 Page 84 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO the tape. MR. GALERSTON: Absolutely. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 10:31. This ends Tape 1 of the videotaped deposition of Carlo Martino, we are off the record. (Whereupon, a short recess is taken.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Standby, please. The time is 10:46. This begins Tape 2 of the videotaped deposition of Carlo Martino. We are on the record. MR. GALERSTON: Thank you, sir. BY MR. GALERSTON: Q. Are you ready to go forward, sir? A. Yes. Q. Okay. We discussed briefly your Exhibit Number 3 which are your notes that relate to your review of the deposition transcripts. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO compensated different rates for different things. Seventy-five dollars for travel, correct? A. Yes. Q. A hundred and fifty dollars for review? A. Yes. Q. And then two hundred dollars for deposition? A. Deposition and testifying at the trial. Q. Okay. Very good. So you spent somewhere around nine to ten hours including the time that we spent here so far, correct? A. Yes. Q. Fair. I believe I'm finished with my questions regarding Exhibit Number 4. If you would could you turn to Exhibit Number 5, sir. Exhibit Number 5 is the presentation of Mr. Louis. A. (Reviews.) Q. Do you see that? Page 83 Page 85 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Can you tell me about how long you've spent preparing for your deposition today. A. I did it in sections. Each volume took anywhere from twenty minutes to thirty minutes, so there were fifteen. Around seven, eight hours. Q. Okay. In addition you had an opportunity to meet with counsel before the deposition too? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And how long did you speak in talking with counsel before the deposition? A. Oh, probably a couple of hours. Q. Okay. Would that have been this morning? A. No, last night. Q. Okay. Other than last night, had you spoke with anyone else in preparation for the deposition substantively, not scheduling? A. No. Q. Okay. If I recall correctly you're 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO A. Yes. Q. Okay. It states that this was based, this is part of a presentation that he made to the Milwaukee section of the Society of Plastic Engineers on May 14th, 1957. Do you see that? A. Yes. Q. Okay. You are an employee of Bakelite, correct? A. Yes. Q. In 1957 I should say? A. Yes. Q. Do you know Mr. Louis? A. I heard the name. I don't think I knew him personally. Q. Okay. It indicates that he is a technical representative. Do you know what a technical representative of Bakelite company is or meant in 1957? MS. CLARK: Can I see that? 22 (Pages 82 to 85) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-65 6-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 86 Page 88 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO A. That -- MS. CLARK: Wait, Carlo. Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. A. That generally referred to the salesperson who called on customers. Q. Okay. In 1957 what was your position with Bakelite? MS. CLARK: Object to form. A. I -- let's see. I was in the -- I believe I was still in the polystyrene business in R and D. Q. Okay. A. Let's see. '48. As best my recollection that's where I was. Q. Okay. Is it safe to assume that you didn't have anything and were not involved in the preparation of this document? A. That's correct. Q. In looking at it does it appear to be a document that Union Carbide and Bakelite company would have prepared in and around the time 1957? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Q. Okay. It says a phenolic resin asbestos composition, open paren, quote, Haveg, capital H-a-v-e-g, close paren, comma, Haveg Corp., close paren, has been developed which makes possible the economic production of large, complex pieces of equipment through simplified molding techniques. What - I'm confused by this reference to the Haveg or Haveg Corporation in that first sentence. Do you understand what that refers -- MR. CLARK: Wait. Q. -- to, sir? MS. CLARK: Wait, Carlo. Okay. Go ahead. A. Haveg was not part of Union Carbide or Bakelite. Q. Okay. A. My interpretation of this was that Haveg developed this composition and Louis is presenting it as an advance in the industry. Q. Okay. Page 87 Page 89 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. Calls for speculation. A. Okay. Q. Okay. Is there any reason for you to believe that this is not a Union Carbide Bakelite document? MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. Calls for speculation. A. Q. No. I'm not interested in the entirety of this document, but I did want to ask you a couple of things about the section where it deals with the phenolic resin asbestos composition which is found on Page 11 of the document. If you could look at that, sir. A. (Reviews.) Yes. Q. At the top of Page 11 at that first full paragraph do you see where it says phenolic resin dash asbestos composition? A. Yes. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Is this - in 1957 was Union Carbide marketing phenolic resin asbestos composition materials? A. Like this? Q. Correct. A. No. Q. When did Union Carbide start to market materials like that's referred to here? MS. CLARK: Objection. Misstates testimony. Assumes facts. Calls for - well, that's it. Vague and ambiguous also. THE WITNESS: Yeah. A. Would you repeat that question again? BY MR. GALERSTON: Q. When did Union Carbide's Bakelite Corporation begin to market its own phenolic resin asbestos composition material? MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Assumes facts. 23 (Pages 86 to 89) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-65 6-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 90 Page 92 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO A. Now, you're referring to marketing this product? Q. No, sir. Its own version. A. Its own version? Q. Yes, sir. MS. CLARK: Same objection. A. I -- I'd have to go back to the records as to when they first made an asbestos phenolic compound. It would be before I got into the business. Q. Okay. So prior to 1948 Union Carbide's Bakelite division was already marketing asbestos-containing phenolics, correct? A. Molding materials, yes. Q. Okay. And what we're -- if I understand it correctly what we see here on Page 11 this reference to the Haveg Corporation is that this is a special process that's different from what Union Carbide's Bakelite division was using, correct? A. Yes. Q. Okay. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Q. Okay. Which ones would not? MS. CLARK: Wait. Let me see Carlo. THE WITNESS: Here. MS. CLARK: I'm just going to object to vague as to time and overly broad. A. The general purpose phenolic materials would not have asbestos at that time. I would have to check records to determine for sure whether general purpose phenolic would improve water resistance with closure material contained asbestos or not. I don't think it did. I don't think the general purpose material with improved impact strength had asbestos in it. The special high impact resistant phenolic material described here I don't think we made at all. Particularly the cord filled fabric pulp, I mean fiber, well, fabric and cord filled. Fiber would have to be defined better. BY MR. GALERSTON: Page 91 Page 93 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO The next paragraph on Page 11 talks about asbestos fdler and the use of asbestos within the phenolic product. A. (Reviews.) Q. Do you see that, sir? A. Q. Yes. Okay. Following that it says that in addition to the basic types discussed, phenolics may be classified according to their intended use in commercial and industrial applications. And then it goes on to list general purpose phenolics, general purpose phenolics with improved water resistance, general purpose materials with improved impact strength and then special high impact resistant phenolics. A. (Reviews.) Q. Do you see those, sir? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Is it your understanding that all of those classes of phenolics would contain asbestos? A. No. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Q. On Page 13 we say the classifications for heat resistance phenolics? A. Yes. Q. The heat resistance phenolics, would they contain asbestos? MS. CLARK: Objection. Overly broad. Vague. A. I would have to check the records at that time as to whether the mineral filler they're referring to is asbestos or not. Q. You would agree with me at some time during Union Carbide's manufacture of Bakelite that its general purpose Bakelite did contain asbestos, correct? MS. CLARK: Objection. Overly broad. Vague. A. We had the 5440 which we called general purpose that contained some asbestos, but we also had large volume products called VMG5000 which did not contain asbestos. Q. And the 5440, what was the years it was manufactured with asbestos? 24 (Pages 90 to 93) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 94 Page 96 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. A. Would you repeat that question, please? Q. What years did Bakelite sell its 5440 formulation containing asbestos? MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. A. I'd have to check the records as when we started selling it. Q. Okay. Would you agree with me that the formulation had asbestos in it through the early nineteen-seventies before it was discontinued? MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. A. It was reformulated during the seventies and the asbestos was removed. That would so it would only be part of the seventies where it contained asbestos. Q. Well, there would be a short period of time before Union Carbide got out of the Bakelite - A. Yes. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO The title on this document is Phenolic Molding Material - Asbestos Consumption year 1999, correct, sir? A. Yes. Q. It's a two-page document. Have you had an opportunity to review this document prior to today? A. Yes. Q. Okay. When did you last review this document? A. Oh, about six years ago. Q. Okay. Was it in connection with a deposition? A. It was after a deposition. Q. Okay. A. When I saw - well, I saw it during a deposition. Q. Okay. Prior to that time when was the last time you saw it? A. Prior to that time? Q. Yes, sir. Page 95 Page 97 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Q. -- product line, correct? A. Uh-huh. Q. In 1969 what was your title with Union Carbide? A. I was the group manager of the phenolic molding material group. Q. Okay. (Whereupon, multi page document entitled Phenolic Molding Material dash Asbestos Consumption Year 1969, bearing Bates stamps UCASB00916496 and UCASB00916497, is received and marked as UCC Exhibit 6 for Identification.) BY MR. GALERSTON: Q. I'm going to hand you now what I've marked as Exhibit Number 6 to your deposition. A. (Reviews.) Q. I ask you to review that. I'll ask you some questions about that. A. Yes. Q. Okay. I've handed you now what's been marked as Exhibit Number 6. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO A. I don't recall. Q. Okay. The phenolic molding material division is, department or division, whatever you want to call it -- A. Yeah. Q. -- that was under your direction and control in 1969, correct? A. The customer service and R and D group were. Q. Okay. Do you know who prepared this document? A. Manufacturing. Q. Okay. If you look at Page 2 in the lower right-hand comer? A. Yes. Q. Appears to be some initials and a date. Do you see that? A. Yes. Q. HEK 1 slash 29 dash 70? A. Yes. 25 (Pages 94 to 97) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 98 Page 100 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Q. Okay. Do you know who that would be? A. Yes, Herve Kipp, H-e-r-v-e Kipp, K-i-p-p. Q. Okay. What was Mr. Kipp's title in 1969? A. I don't know. He - he worked in manufacturing. I don't recall what the title was. Q. Okay. The document here relates and reports asbestos consumption for the year of 1969 the phenolic molding materials and there is a list of various formulations on both pages that use asbestos, correct? A. Yes. Q. Across the top of Page 1 we see the product name in the far left column. Then we see 1969 sales and pounds, correct? A. Yes. Q. And then we see one, two, three, five columns that have references to RM- 18-B, RM-18-0, RM-18-P, RM-18-Q and RM-18-S. A. (Reviews.) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Foundation. Beyond the scope. A. One would be Carey mines. Q. Are you aware of anyone else in the 1969, 1970 time frame that was supplying asbestos fiber to Union Carbide Bakelite division? MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. A. I think we purchased some product from a Vermont asbestos company as well. I don't recall the name of it. Q. Okay. In looking at the chart we see the first listing for BMG-0500 BK25. A. (Reviews.) Q. Do you see that, sir? A. Yes. Q. Okay. I don't recall us ever discussing a 0500 formulation before. What does that refer to? A. It's just a product. Q. Okay. Page 99 Page 101 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Q. Do you see those, sir? A. Yes. Q. Those are references to different classes, classifications of asbestos fibers, correct? A. Not necessarily classifications, but suppliers. Q. Okay. Do you know who Union Carbide's supplier was of the RM-18-B fibers? A. 18-B? Q. Well, let me ask it this way: Do you know who - can you identify any supplier with any of these classifications? MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. Beyond the scope. A. I don't recall who each of these designations refer to. Q. Okay. Do you know within a range of who they would be in 1969? MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague and ambiguous. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO In the past we discussed that the first number indicates what type of process is used in creating if it's a single stage or a double stage. A. Yes. Q. What does zero stand for? A. That I don't recall. Q. Okay. If we look through further down on the list we see that there is a BMG-0500, a BMM-0500, BMMA-0500. A. Uh-huh. Q. The first line indicates that in 1969 Union Carbide sold ten thousand five hundred pounds of BMG-500, correct? A. Of the 0500, yes. Q. Correct. 0500. Thank you. The BK stands for the color. right, black? A. Yes. Q. The 25 refers to its packaging, is that correct? A. No. Q. What does the 25 refer to? 26 (Pages 98 to 101) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 102 Page 104 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO A. 25 is the colorant that's used. Q. Okay. The vast majority of these are 25, correct? A. Yes. Q. There is a few that are 35. What is - but they're all BKs, correct? A. Q. Yes. So what's the difference between BK25 and BK35? A. BK is black. 25 is nigrosine. I don't recall what 35 is. Q. Okay. What about, there's, I see a 15 and a 45 as well. Do you recall what those are? A. The 15 I think is carbon black. I don't recall what 45 is. Q. Okay. In reading this chart, correct me if I'm wrong, it indicates in the first row that BMG-0500 was thirty-eight percent RM-18-B, is that correct? A. Yes. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO A. 54. Q. BK45. Follow it across to the right and you'll see it's fifty-nine point six percent asbestos. A. Oh, I see. Yes. Q. You only sold one thousand nine hundred pounds of that. Do you know what that application is? MS. CLARK: Can I get that back? What's the number you said it was? MR. GALERSTON: BMGA - MR. CLARK: B- MR. GALERSTON: -430. MS. CLARK: 50? MR. GALERSTON: BK45. MS. CLARK: Right, but you said 59? I see a 5 - THE WITNESS: Over here (indicating.) MS. CLARK: Oh, sorry. I'm looking at the one right above it. I can't tell where counsel is reading. Okay. Page 103 Page 105 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Q. Okay. So of ten thousand five hundred pounds of that product that Union Carbide sold, three thousand nine hundred and ninety pounds of that were asbestos, correct? A. Yes. Q. Okay. As we go down the list we can see the variation of the asbestos content in the price that contained asbestos. Not all of these - Strike that. All of these did contain some asbestos, correct? A. All of these, yes. Q. Okay. In looking at this the highest asbestos content that I can see is in BMGA-5430 BK45 which was fifty-nine point six percent RM-18-Q. A. (Reviews.) Q. Do you see that, sir? A. What was the number again? Q. BMGA-5430. It's about ten down. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO BY MR. GALERSTON: Q. More importantly though the witness and I are on the same page. Are we not, sir? A. Yes, we are. MS. CLARK: Counsel, it is more difficult since you didn't give me a copy of your exhibits. So I'm kind of peering over his shoulder to see what you're doing. MR. GALERSTON: Counsel, you have your own copy in front of you. You brought it - they made copies for you yesterday when I made a copy at the office. Did they not give them to you? MS. CLARK: Pardon me? Yeah, they gave us copies of what you - MR. GALERSTON: They gave you copies of everything I made, right. MS. CLARK: Right, but as you've been going through marking your exhibits some I have and some I don't. MR. GALERSTON: But you do have this one, do you not? MS. CLARK: I do now, yes. 27 (Pages 102 to 105) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-65 6-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO OH 4 00 Page 106 Page 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 MR. GALERSTON: Well, you had it 3 before today. You had it from yesterday. 4 MS. CLARK: Counsel, that's not the 5 point. 6 When you're referring to exhibits 7 and pointing him to things, it would be nice to 8 have copies of what you're - anyway, move on. 9 MR. GALERSTON: Well, my point is 10 that you have it so. 11 12 BY MR. GALERSTON: 13 Q. Sir, before we got sidetracked, do 14 you see that BMGA-5430 BK45 is a fifty-nine point 15 six percent asbestos content, sir? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. It was a very small product. One 18 thousand nine hundred pounds of it was sold in 19. 1969. 20 Do you have any recollection of 21 what that application is for? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Okay. 24 I assume you don't have any idea 25 of whether or not the sales were greater or less 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO A. Customer, no. But that amount -- I don't know what customers bought that, no. Q. Okay. Do you remember what that formulation was used for primarily? A. It would be a general purpose type of product. Q. Okay. That product has a three point eight percent asbestos content, correct? A. Yes. Q. Looking at the bottom of that page you see the line where it says forward? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it indicates that in 1969 sales on this page alone represented fifteen million four hundred and thirty-two thousand pounds of Union Carbide products, correct? A. Yes. Q. And we would have to go across the row and do the addition to figure out exactly how much asbestos content was in each of those, but j 1 1 I t | | 1 Page 107 Page 109 j 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO than that of that product years before or year after? A. Not without checking the records. Q. Looking about, oh, three-quarters of the way down do you see a reference to BMMB-5020 BK25, sir? A. Yes. Q. Okay. You see there there was two million three hundred ninety-one thousand seven hundred pounds sold of that product. Do you recall that product formulation? A. How much -- you're looking at BMMB? Q. Correct, 5020. A. Right. Q. Two million three hundred ninety-one thousand seven hundred pounds sold? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Do you recall what that formulation was used for or who that customer would be? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 | 23 24 ' 25 CARLO F. MARTINO we see that 18-B there was one point zero nine one million pounds of asbestos and one point two million pounds of 18-Q, correct? A. Q. Yes. So we're looking at somewhere around two point five million pounds of asbestos represented on Page 1, correct? A. Yes. Q. Okay. On Page 2 we see the rest of the products that contained asbestos, the majority of them requiring that RM- 18-Q, you see that, sir? A. Would you repeat that again? Q. Page 2. A. Yes. Q. When we look at the asbestos content of these products these, I don't know, forty, forty-five different products, on Page 2 the vast majority of them called for the RM-18-Q, correct? A. Yes. Q. We see 1969 RM-18-B the total was one million one hundred and fifty-one thousand eight hundred and seven pounds, correct? | 3 j % \ 28 (Pages 106 to 109) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 110 Page 112 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO A. Yes. Q. RM-18-0, twenty-five thousand one hundred and sixteen pounds, correct? A. Yes. Q. RM-18-P, fifty-three thousand seven hundred and ninety pounds? A. Yes. Q. RM- 18-Q one million five hundred and seventy-six thousand one hundred and nineteen pounds? A. Yes. Q. And then RM-18-S sixty-seven thousand five hundred and sixty-three pounds, correct? A. Yes. Q. Do you know was this type of chart prepared for every year that Union Carbide manufactured asbestos-containing phenolic moldings? A. No. This was done for a study to determine if all of these products could be put on one production line. Q. Okay. If I understand it in the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO A. Yes, yes. Q. Do you have a recollection as to the asbestos consumption between 1968 and '69 whether or not this would have been higher or lower? MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. Calls for speculation. A. Would you repeat that again, please? Q. Sure. Do you recall whether or not Union Carbide's Bakelite's division consumption of asbestos would have increased or decreased in 1969 from its 1968 levels? MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. Calls for speculation. A. There was a gradual increase. I don't have any figures for '68, but there was a gradual increase up to this. This was the peak. Q. Okay. '69 was the high watermark for the asbestos consumption? Page 111 Page 113 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO nineteen-seventies there was a question of whether or not you could mechanize the production? A. Yeah. Q. Is that correct? A. Yes. Q. At the same time there was a study as to whether or not to go, to leave the Carey Canadian which had been the primary asbestos fiber supplier to Manville or possibly start using the Union Carbide Calidria, correct? MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Misstates facts. A. The Calidria was considered because of a pelleted product that they were making, and also I think they were delivering it in closed containers or were planning to anyway. As far as I know we did not leave Carey, at least during the time I was there. Q. Okay. Carey had been the primary supplier, but there was a look to see whether or not you would leave - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO A. Yes. Q. And then it tapered off until it barely dropped quickly and then ended, correct? A. Yes. Q. And that would have been '74? A. Yes. Q. In 1969 at the peak of Union Carbide's use of asbestos in its phenolic molding materials, Union Carbide and Bakelite were not putting any warnings on any of its materials as to the hazards associated with asbestos, correct? A. That's right. Q. The first warning on any Bakelite product appeared in what year? A. I think it - MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague and ambiguous. A. I think it was 1973. Q. Okay, sir. (Whereupon, multi page document on Union Carbide Corporation letterhead dated February 29th, 1972, not bearing Bates stamps, is received and marked as UCC Exhibit 7 for Identification.) 29 (Pages 110 to 113) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 114 Page 116 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO BY MR. GALERSTON: Q. I'm going to hand you what I've now, marked as Exhibit Number 7 to your deposition. A. (Reviews.) MR. GALERSTON: If you want to look at mine while he looks at that one and you can pass it back to me. MS. CLARK: Thanks. A. Okay. BY MR. GALERSTON: Q. Okay. Sir, what I've handed you there is Exhibit Number 7. Is that a document you're familiar with? A. Yes. Q. Okay. It's a multi page document with several attachments to it. Does it appear to be a complete document to the best of your knowledge? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO That would be you, correct? A. Yes. Q. This is talking about the transfer of certain formulations BMMA-5440/5441 BK25DC, BMRS-5440/5441 BK25DC. Then I think it says some, some or one in handwriting. A. What was that again? Q. Pardon? See where it says BMRS-5440? A. Okay, I see where you mean. Q. Slash 5441? A. Yes. Q. BK25DC? A. Right. Q. And then it says one or some. I'm not sure. Do you know what that says there? A. Looks like someone's initials. Q. Okay. And then BMMA-5138 BK25DC, correct? A. Yes. Q. These are products that are being transferred to Canada, correct? A. No. Page 115 Page 117 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Well, let me ask it this way. MS. CLARK: I'm going to object to foundation. Q. The documents that are attached, do you believe those are properly attached to that letter? MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. Calls for speculation. MR. GALERSTON: Thank you. A. And what was your question? BY MR. GALERSTON: Q. Do the attachments to this document, do these appear to be related to the subject matter that are Page 1 of Exhibit 7? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Exhibit 7 is a February 29th, 1972 Union Carbide memo which was directed to you, correct? A. Yes. Q. We see your name in the top left where it says C.F. Martino. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. CARLO F. MARTINO Where are they being transferred to? A. This is a transfer to the manufacturing organization. Q. Oh, okay. I think I've got it confused with another letter. So these are formulations that have been finalized and approved by R and D for actual usage? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Eight pages into this document there is the sideways chart (indicating). A. This one? Yes. Q. I believe so. It's - this is the materials unit grade for BMMA-5440/5441, correct? A. Yes. Q. Okay. In looking at this document and correct me where I'm wrong, this on the top indicates that this is a reformulation that replaced a former formulation of January 17th, . 30 (Pages 114 to 117) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-65 6-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 118 Page 120 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO 1972, correct? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Looking at this we see listings of the various components that are in this and we see on Line 1,2, 3,4, 5,6 we see material code Number 18176 RM-18-Q which we understand is a type of asbestos, correct? A. Yes. Q. Okay. THE WITNESS: (Indicating.) MS. CLARK: Okay. BY MR. GALERSTON: Q. It indicates in the -- well, after we have the RM-18-Q three hundred and sixty is a number that carries forward. Is that three hundred and sixty pounds per batch? A. That's, yes, pounds per mix. Q. Okay. So if the total weight is forty-two hundred pounds, this is somewhere around eight or nine percent of the total 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO The second paragraph it states that BMMA-5441 BK25DC nomenclature was established to identify this type product when additional testing is required for the government specification MIL-M-14F, comma, type CFG. A. (Reviews.) Q. Do you see that, sir? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Do you recall Union Carbide's Bakelite division having its BMMA-5441 placed on the government's qualified products list? A. I don't recall if we ever got that. I'd have to check the records. Q. Clearly according to this there was some attempt to get it on there, correct? A. Yes, yes. Q. Are you aware of any products that Union Carbide's Bakelite division had successfully placed on the military's qualified products list? A. Yes. There was a 05 - 07501 believe. Q. Okay. What kind of product was Page 119 Page 121 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO product, correct? A. Yes. Q. Okay. If you go to the next material sheet which is about five pages from the end which pertains to MR - BMRS-5440/5441. You see that one, sir? A. Yes. Q. Okay. We see the same formulation here, the RM-18-Q asbestos, three hundred and sixty pounds for a forty-two hundred pound batch, correct? A. Yes. Q. Again, approximately eight to nine percent of the total weight, correct? A. Yes. Q. And then the last page of the exhibit which is BMMA-5138 we see again the RM-18-Q asbestos three hundred and sixty pounds in a forty-two hundred pound batch, correct? A. Yes. Q. I want to go back to the first page of this exhibit. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO that? A. That was a mica-filled product. Q. Was that the only one to the best of your knowledge? A. I don't recall others. There may be others. I'd have to check the records. Q. Okay. (Whereupon, two-page document dated October 5th, 1972, not bearing Bates stamps, is received and marked as UCC Exhibit 8 for Identification.) BY MR. GALERSTON: Q. I'm going to hand you now what I've marked as Exhibit Number 8 which is an October 5th, 1972 Union Carbide memo regarding General Electric. A. (Reviews.) Q. You're familiar with this document, are you not, sir? A. Familiar with this document? Q. Yes, sir. A. Yes. Q. Okay. 31 (Pages 118 to 121) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-65 6-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 122 Page 124 | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO We discussed this tangentially earlier when we talked about the typographical error in the exhibit when it says that G.E. got out of or removed asbestos from its phenolics in 1972. Do you remember that? A. Yes. Q. Okay. This is an October 5th, 1972 memo that states that General Electric had announced that it was going to eliminate asbestos from its phenolics in 1972, correct? A. Yes. Q. Okay. This decision by General Electric to remove asbestos from its phenolics helped to move Union Carbide away from the use of asbestos. Would you agree? MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. Calls for speculation. A. Not initially. General Electric just immediately stopped producing product and introduced asbestos-free product which was not 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO of the molding R and D group. Q. Okay. Was manufacturing part of your responsibility? A. No. Q. Okay. So if General Electric's manufacturing facility was being cited for asbestos problems, that would not be something that would raise alarm bells in your mind for your operations, correct, because you weren't over manufacturing? A. We monitored our own operation. So we knew whether or not we met the OSHA regulations or not. Q. You weren't responsible for manufacturing, correct? A. No. Q. Okay. You weren't responsible for seeing that OSHA rules and regulations were followed as for the manufacturing facility, correct? A. I was not responsible for that, no. | | j I 1 | 1 } 1 1 i 1 | 1 Page 123 Page 125! 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO accepted very well. At this stage the decision as to what we should do had not been made. It certainly pushed us in that direction. Q. You see in the last partial sentence of Paragraph 1 it talks about one of General Electric's locations which was molding asbestos materials was cited for violations of OSHA regulations specifying the minimum asbestos content in the air. A. (Reviews.) Q. Do you see that, sir? A. Yes. Q. Do you recall hearing about that in 1972? A. No. Well, I'm on the distribution of the letter. When I received the letter I became aware of it. Q. Okay. In October of 1972 what was your position at Union Carbide? A. What was what? Q. What was your position? A. Oh, the general, the group manager 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 : 20 21 22 | 23 1 24 CARLO F. MARTINO Q. You were responsible for the lab, correct? A. Right, that's correct. Q. In the third paragraph in the middle of it there is a discussion with regards to what I understand to be one of Union Carbide's customers Texas Instruments. A. (Reviews.) Q. Do you see that, sir? A. Yes. Q. Okay. It states there, it says Texas Instruments which uses about seven hundred and fifty million pounds annually of Genal 4300, open paren, asbestos fdled, comma, is preparing to begin a full scale evaluation of G.E. heat resistant materials using other fdlers instead of asbestos. A. (Reviews.) Q. Did I read that correctly, sir? A. Yes. You said seven hundred and fifty million. I think that -- that's an awfully large 125 figure. I think it's seven hundred and fifty 1 i 5 ! M 32 (Pages 122 to 125) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 126 Page 128 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO thousand. Q. Okay. It says seven hundred and fifty M, capital M, right? A. Yeah, yeah. I don't think the total volume of molding materials was that high. Q. Okay. A. Anyway that -- Q. Well, I appreciate what you're saying. I have seen other times when people say that one M means thousands and two Ms means -- A. Yeah. Q. -- millions which I think must be something related to Roman numerals. I'm not certain. A. Yeah. Q. But it's your understanding that's seven hundred and fifty thousand pounds of Genal 4300, correct? A. Yes. Q. Genal 4300, what type of product is that? A. That was a G.E. molding material. Q. Okay. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Q. Page 2, Exhibit 8, the second to last paragraph, recommendations for Mr. Nelson as to what should be done. The second line of that paragraph says, first, it should immediately be determined with the existing OSHA requirements whether the molder risks any possible repercussions in OSHA violations by using asbestos fdled molding materials. A. (Reviews.) Q. Do you see that, sir? A. Yes. Q. Okay. You see off to the right it says can't do. Do you see that handwritten over there? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Do you know of any reason why Union Carbide could not determine whether or not the molder risks any possible repercussions in OSHA violations by using asbestos filled molding materials? Page 127 Page 129 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO This is a G.E. customer, not a Union Carbide customer, is that correct? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Genal, is it a phenolic? A. Genal is the name they use to designate their molding materials. Q. Okay. Is that different from Textolite? A. Yes. Q. What is your understanding of the difference between Textolite and Genal? A. Textolite is a laminate. Q. Okay. A. The Genal is the molding material. Q. The letter Exhibit Number 8 is signed by Mr. S.B. Nelson, correct? A. Yes. Q. Mr. Nelson is an industrial hygienist, is that correct? A. Is the what? Q. Industrial hygienist? A. I don't recall what his title was. I don't know. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO MS. CLARK: Objection. Assumes facts. Calls for speculation. Foundation. A. I don't know why he said can't do and I don't know who said it either. Q. Let me ask you this: In looking at Page 1 you see the handwritten note to E.A. Lawrence dash urgent? A. Yes. Q. And it's signed by E., is it Krummel? A. Krummel, yes. Q. Would you agree with me the "can't do" appears to be the same handwriting as Mr. Krummel's on Page 1 ? MS. CLARK: Objection. Calls for speculation. A. I don't know. Q. Okay. I assume you never discussed this letter or the notations on it with Mr. Krummel? A. That I what? Q. Discussed this letter? 33 (Pages 126 to 129) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 130 Page 132 | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO A. Q. Yes. Or the notations on it with Mr. Krammel? A. There was some discussion as what he meant by problem or opportunity. Q. Those would have been discussions that would have been contemporary in 1972? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Did you ever go back and discuss with him since you started testifying in asbestos cases with regards to any matters related to this letter? A. No, he's dead. Q. Okay. How long has he been dead? A. Oh, I guess fifteen, twenty years. Q. So he would have died prior to your retirement? A. Q. Yes. What about Mr. Nelson, is Mr. Nelson alive? A. I don't know. Q. Do you know if anybody at Union 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Q. Are you familiar with this exhibit? A. I have not seen it before. Q. Okay. Exhibit Number 9 as I indicated is a November 28th, 1972 letter from William R. Bradley to - we can't see exactly to who it is because it's covered up by a Union Carbide routing slip, correct? A. It is to D.R. Albright. Q. Okay. Well, sir, I'll represent to you that what we see here in the top left on the squiggly lines -- A. Yes. Q. - appears to be something that was taped on, posted or something like that because you see it covers up part of the letterhead from Mr. Bradley's, from William R. Bradley and Associates? A. Oh, yes. Q. Okay. You see right below that squiggly line it says dear Mr. Neal? | j ! | 1 * i ; 1 1 1 s j x i i Page 131 Page 133 f 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARLO F. MARTINO Carbide has made an effort to contact Mr. Nelson to discuss this letter or anything else he's done related to asbestos at Union Carbide's Bakelite division? A. No. MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. A. Q. No. Was Mr. Nelson still with Union Carbide when you retired in 1996? MS. CLARK: Foundation. A. I don't recall. (Whereupon, two-page document on- William R. Bradley and Associates letterhead, dated November 28th, 1972, not bearing Bates stamps, is received and marked as UCC Exhibit 9 for Identification.) BY MR. GALERSTON: Q. Sir, I'm going to hand you now a November 28th, 1972 letter marked as Exhibit Number 9 and ask you if you're familiar with this document? A. And what was your question? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ; 25 CARLO F. MARTINO A. Q. (Reviews.) And you can see off to the squiggly lines it says something about "ation," it looks like corporation and then something about looks like probably in New Jersey 08805. It appears that a portion of this letter is covered up? A. Yeah, I see what you mean. Q. Okay. You would agree with me that what is within the squiggly lines in the top left appears to be routing copies of this letter to various Union Carbide employees, correct? A. Yes. Q. Okay. One of those would include yourself, correct? See Mr. C.F. Martino? A. Okay. I did get a copy. Q. And you see there's an arrow written within that little square? A. Q. Yes. Indicating that this copy that we're looking at would have been sent to J.M. Swalm? | 1 1 j 5 ------fe 34 (Pages 130 to 133) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 134 Page 136 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 A. Uh-huh. 3 Q. Bound Brook, BB stands for Bound 4 Brook, Bound Brook, correct? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Not so easy for me to say. 7 So are you familiar with William 8 Bradley's work that he did where he came in and 9 did an industrial hygiene survey of the Bound 10 Brook facility? 11 A. I have to read this just to see, 12 to recall whether I, you know 13 Q. Certainly. 14 A. I'm on the distribution list so I 15 must have read it, but I just don't recall it. 16 Q. Fair enough. Take your time. Let 17 me know when you've finished looking at it. 18 A. Objection. 19 MS. CLARK: Thanks. 20 MR. GALERSTON: Certainly. 21 22 BY MR. GALERSTON: 23 Q. So my question, sir, was were you 24 aware of Mr. Bradley's work at the Bound Brook 25 plant in 1972? 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 MS. CLARK: Objection. 3 Foundation. 4 A. They're both chrysotile asbestos. 5 Q. You don't have any comment, do 6 you, with regards to the exposure levels that 7 Mr. Bradley found at the facility, do you? 8 MS. CLARK: Objection. 9 Vague and ambiguous. 10 Foundation. 11 A. No. I wasn't aware that that high 12 a fiber content was found. At least I don't, 13 didn't recall it. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. But I'm sure that there was rapid 16 reaction to this. 17 Q. Okay. 18 You're not - you're not in a 19 position to dispute Mr. Bradley's report? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Or to dispute the accuracy of the 22 Exhibit Number 9, are you? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Okay. 25 (Whereupon, multi page document on Page 135 Page 137 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 A. Not in this detail, no. 3 Q. Okay. 4 You don't recall the reporting 5 with regards to the handling of the asbestos 6 material in the plant? 7 A. No. 8 Q. You'll notice in the review of the 9 report it does not indicate what type of asbestos 10 is being used, does it? 11 A. No, it doesn't. 12 Q. It doesn't mention who the 13 supplier was as well. 14 Do you know what type of asbestos 15 would be used in 1972 and who the supplier was? 16 MS. CLARK: Objection. 17 Foundation. 18 A. Carey Mines was one of our biggest 19 suppliers, but there was one other. So I don't 20 know which he was doing the tests on. 21 Q. The Vermont supplier? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Do you recall what type or grade 24 that the Vermont supplier was providing that 25 Carey could not? 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Union Carbide letterhead, dated March 14th, 1973, 3 bearing Bates stamps UCASB01929086 through 4 UCASB01929087, is received and marked as UCC 5 Exhibit 10 for Identification.) 6 7 BY MR. GALERSTON: 8 Q. Sir, I'm going to hand you now 9 what I've marked as Exhibit Number 10 to your 10 deposition which is a March 14th, 1973 Union 11 Carbide internal memo regarding product labeling 12 asbestos. 13 A. (Reviews.) 14 Q. Okay? 15 A. Uh-huh, yes. 16 Q. Are you familiar with this 17 document, sir? 18 A. Well, I was on the distribution 19 list so I must have read it at the time. I don't 20 recall the details. Okay. Okay, yes, this was 21 the response to that experiment we ran. 22 Q. Okay. Okay. 23 I forgot to write the number down. 24 Exhibit Number 10, have you 25 reviewed that prior to today's deposition not 35 (Pages 134 to 137) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 138 Page 140 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 contemporaneous with the publication of this 3 document? 4 Let me re-ask that question. It's 5 a very, very bad question, okay. 6 MR. GALERSTON: Kate, you're not 7 doing your job. You didn't object to that as 8 being stupid. 9 MS. CLARK: I was trying to come up 10 with the 11 A. I don't give her a 12 MR. CLARK: - right descriptor. 13 A. I didn't give her a chance. 14 15 BY MR. GALERSTON: 16 Q. Mr. Martino, have you reviewed 17 Exhibit Number 10 in connection with your 18 testifying on behalf of Union Carbide in asbestos 19 litigation? 20 A. You mean before this? 21 Q. Yes, sir. Before today. 22 A. The experiment that this refers to 23 was discussed in some previous depositions, yes. 24 This particular letter I don't think - well, it 25 could have been included in some of the previous 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 study, or I guess study would be the right word, 3 that Mr. Neal did in the laboratory, is that 4 correct? 5 A. Yes, he did it with us. 6 Q. With us meaning research and 7 development? 8 A. I was involved, yes. 9 Q. Okay. 10 And when we look at Exhibit 10 and 11 we see reference to, excuse me, Paragraph 1 of 12 Exhibit 10 when it talks about Mr. Neal's 13 findings as to the hazard of exposure to airborne 14 asbestos in the handling of our present 15 asbestos-containing molding material products by 16 downstream users, that's referring to Exhibit 11? 17 A. Yes, but it's not a complete 18 statement. 19 Q. Which part is not complete? 20 A. The one in the letter. 21 Q. Okay. 22 There is portions or information 23 that you believe that's relevant that's found in 24 Exhibit 11 that do not find their way into 25 Exhibit 10? Page 139 Page 141 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 depositions too. 3 Q. Okay. 4 MR. GALERSTON: Do you have some 5 more labels? 6 COURT REPORTER: (Indicating.) 7 MR. GALERSTON: I thought so. 8 (Whereupon, multi page document 9 bearing Bates stamps A03192 through A03206, is 10 received and marked as UCC Exhibit 11 for 11 Identification.) 12 13 BY MR. GALERSTON: 14 Q. Sir, I'm going to hand you now 15 what I'm marking as Exhibit Number 11. 16 A. (Reviews.) 17 Q. And ask you if these appear to be 18 pages related to what you called the experiment. 19 A. Yes, uh-huh. 20 Q. Okay. 21 Exhibit 11 which is, the first 22 page says W.D. Neal, industrial hygiene 23 measurements 9/72 dash 12/73. 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. This is an industrial hygiene 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Okay. 4 Well, we can talk about that in 5 more detail. 6 MR. GALERSTON: I would suggest 7 we're about to ran out of time on the tape, we're 8 at a good breaking point. Let's break for lunch 9 and we can come back and talk about that. 10 MS. CLARK: Okay. 11 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 12 11:54. 13 This ends Tape 2 of the videotaped 14 deposition of Carlo Martino. 15 We are off the record. 16 (Whereupon, the witness is 17 excused.) 18 (Whereupon, a luncheon recess is 19 taken at 11:54 a.m.) 20 21 22 23 24 25 36 (Pages 138 to 141) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 142 Page 144 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 AFTERNOON SESSION 3 (1:04 p.m.) 4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Standby, 5 please. 6 The time is 1:04. 7 This begins Tape 3 of the 8 videotaped deposition of Carlo Martino. 9 We are on the record. 10 MR. GALERSTON: Thank you, sir. 11 12 CARLO F. MARTINO, 13 residing at 125 River Road, Branchburg, New Jersey 14 08876, having been previously duly sworn or 15 affirmed by a Notary Public within and for the 16 States of New York and New Jersey, resumed and 17 continued to testify further as follows: 18 CONTINUED EXAMINATION BY MR. GALERSTON: 19 Q. Mr. Martino, you're prepared to 20 continue? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. 23 Did you have a nice lunch? 24 A. Yes, I did. 25 Q. Okay. 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 cover, right. 3 4 BY MR. GALERSTON: 5 Q. Okay. 6 Sir, if we look at the second page 7 of Exhibit Number 11 which is Bates numbered 8 UCASB01875409. 9 A. (Reviews.) 10 Q. Do you see that, sir? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. It indicates testing done on 13 August 10th I assume 1991. 14 Do you see that, sir? 15 A. Where do you see the date? 16 Q. 8/10-1? 17 A. Oh, yes. It says 5, May 25th. 18 5/25. 19 Q. 5/25. Where do you see that, sir? 20 A. Right here (indicating). 21 Q. Okay. 22 The previous page. 23 A. Okay. 24 Q. The second page of the exhibit, 25 you see that one now? It's - if you look at the Page 143 Page 145 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 We were discussing Exhibits 10 and 3 Exhibit 11 which relate to some industrial 4 hygiene testing done by Mr. Neal at Union 5 Carbide, correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. 8 According to Exhibit 11 it states 9 there that the documents contained therein are 10 industrial hygiene measurements taken September 11 1973 through December of 1973. 12 A. (Reviews.) 13 Q. Do you see that, sir? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. What we have here I don't believe 16 extends into 1973, does it? I think we may have 17 an incomplete fde? I take that back. These 18 earlier ones are 1973, are they not? 5/30/02. 19 Let me ask you this, sir: Do you 20 see anything that says December 1972, '3 on it? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Okay. 23 MS. CLARK: Other than on the cover 24 you mean? 25 MR. GALERSTON: Yes, other than the 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 bottom it should be Page 409. 3 A. (Indicating.) 4 Q. Still - go 5 MS. CLARK: It's the second - 6 MR. GALERSTON: Right. He 7 hadn't - 8 9 BY MR. GALERSTON: 10 Q. Forward one more. No, not 11 backwards. Go back. I should say backwards, not 12 forwards. Excuse me. That one. 13 A. That one, okay. 14 Q. Okay. 15 Does it say 409 in the lower 16 right? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Okay. 19 When you look at the top it says 20 13 colon 40. 21 A. (Reviews.) 22 Q. Do you see that? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Okay. 25 And right below that you see it 37 (Pages 142 to 145) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO l *-- GO Page 146 Page 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 says asbestos testing? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. To the left of that it says 5 8/10/1, correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. It says August 10th, 1991? 8 MS. CLARK: Objection. 9 Misstates facts. 10 Q. What does that mean to you, sir, 11 8/10-1? 12 A. I don't know. 13 Q. Okay. 14 It says it's asbestos testing. 15 Then the product that appears is BMM-5303, is 16 that correct? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Okay. 19 MS. TAYLOR: Excuse me, one second. 20 I would like to confirm with the court reporter or 21 any counsel that this deposition only applies to 22 Whitmire and not Baker. 23 This is Gordon & Rees calling. 24 MS. CLARK: Who is speaking? 25 MR. GALERSTON: Who is speaking? 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 deposition or at trial regarding the contents of 3 these documents? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Okay. 6 Looking at the second page which 7 ends in Bates Number 409 we see 8-10-1 asbestos 8 testing of BMM-5303. 9 Right underneath testing it 10 appears to be the word damaged? Do you know? 11 MS. CLARK: Objection. 12 Misstates the document. 13 A. I can't make that out. 14 Q. Okay. 15 It says thirteen and a half and 16 then it looks like bags equals six hundred and 17 seventy-five pounds. 18 A. (Reviews.) 19 Q. Do you see that? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. Yeah. That's about right. 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. That should be fifty pound bags. 25 So that would be -- yeah. 1 i : 1 I 2 S | 1 ! | Page 147 Page 149 i i 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 1 CARLO F. MARTINO j 2 MS. TAYLOR: This is Elizabeth 2 Q. Okay. 3 Taylor from Gordon & Rees to confirm that this is 3 A. Would be right. j 4 only -- this deposition only applies to Whitmire 4 Q. And I believe it says in unit B j 5 and not Baker. 5 following the six hundred and seventy-five f 6 MR. GALERSTON: That has not been 6 pounds. That's the unit that was mixing the 7 concluded. That's an open issue. 7 product? 8 MS. CLARK: Yes, and just to be 8 A. Now, this - the tests were run in j 9 clear, it's our position, Union Carbide's position 9 our laboratory where we made our experimental j 10 that it applies to both, but there's an ongoing 10 materials. I'm not sure that this is the f 11 dispute about that. 11 experiment that I was involved with. 12 MS. TAYLOR: Okay. Thank you very 12 Q. Okay. 13 much. 13 Let me go ahead and let's go to i 14 MR. GALERSTON: All right. 14 the next page and see if this helps clarify. 15 15 We're now looking at Bates number 16 BY MR. GALERSTON: 16 ending in 410 which is the third page of Exhibit 17 Q. All right, sir. 17 Number 11. 18 We're looking at Page 2 of Exhibit 18 You see where it says 5/31 ? 19 Number 11 and I'm trying to understand the 19 A. Yes. 20 information that's contained in this exhibit. 20 Q. On the left? 21 You have had an opportunity to 21 A. Uh-huh. i 22 review the documents contained in Exhibit 11 22 Q. And it says started at 8:20. It 23 before, correct? 23 says personnel Bemie Greenbaum or some -- 24 A. Yes, I have. 24 A. Looks like Graebert. 25 Q. And have you actually testified by *2..5.. Q. Okay. Is that a name that you 38 (Pages 146 to 149) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 150 Page 152 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 recognize? 3 A. Graebert, yes. He used to be the 4 department head there. 5 Q. Okay. 6 Department head in laboratory or 7 in manufacturing? 8 A. Manufacturing. 9 Q. Okay. 10 Again, it says it -- it makes a 11 reference to unit B. That's a manufacturing 12 unit, correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. I take that back. I see personnel 16 G-r-a-e-b-e-i-a. Doesn't look like Graebert. 17 Q. Okay. Maybe Graebeia or something 18 like that? 19 A. Yeah, yeah. I don't recognize 20 him. 21 Q. Not somebody that worked in your 22 lab? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Okay. 25 Unit B, of course, we said you 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 dusty conditions. 3 MS. CLARK: It's up (indicating). 4 THE WITNESS: Oh, over there? 5 A. Okay, yes. 6 7 BY MR. GALERSTON: 8 Q. Okay. 9 It says due to dropping full bags 10 on floor prior to discharging 11 A. Uh-huh. 12 Q. -- in north chute. 13 A. Yeah. 14 Q. Also visible dust from dispersed 15 drum which was nearly filled with previously 16 emptied bags, correct? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Okay. 19 We go on and then we see that 20 there is some more testing done on 6/1 in two 21 locations, 6/1-1 and then 6/1-2? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Then summary it says OSHA sample 24 Carey two point five fibers per millimeter and 25 then right below it says Calidria 200X some j i 1 1 | 1 1 ( I I j Page 151 Page 153 | 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 indicated that would still be manufacturing, 3 right? 4 A. Unit B is one of the manufacturing 5 units. 6 Q. Okay. 7 Then it says time four minutes. 8 It says dumped six and a half bags Calidria, 9 correct? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And then it says 200X. 12 Do you know if that's for two 13 hundred pounds? 14 MS. CLARK: Foundation. 15 A. Calidria SG two hundred is a 16 designation of the pelleted asbestos. 17 Q. Okay. 18 So you read that to mean this is a 19 test of the pelleted Calidria? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Okay. 22 Then it goes on, it says rather 23 dusty conditions, correct? 24 A. I don't see the dusty condition. 25 Q. Following the Calidria 200X rather 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 numbers and then off to the right it says average 3 2.0, correct? 4 A. Yeah, yes. 5 Q. Were you involved in this testing? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Okay. 8 This is part of that study that 9 was done to see whether or not Union Carbide was 10 going to go to Calidria from the Carey that it 11 had been using? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Carey fibers? 14 A. Yes, the pelleted Carey - 15 Calidria. 16 Q. Was this testing that was done at 17 your request or was this testing that was done at 18 someone else's request? 19 A. Not my request. . 20 Q. So when we look at Exhibit 10 21 which talks about Mr. Neal doing some studies or 22 tests at the request of Mr. Martino and 23 Mr. Ealer, these are - what we looked at so far 24 in Exhibit 11 are not those tests, right? 25 A. That's right. ! J % { f 39 (Pages 150 to 153) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 154 Page 156 | 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Q. Okay. 3 Let's continue with Exhibit 11. 4 Looking at Bates number ending 5 413. 6 I'm sorry, 412,1 skipped ahead, 7 do you see that one ending in 412, sir? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. 10 It appears to be 3/27/73 at the 11 top left. 12 Do you see that? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Okay. 15 And over to the right it says bay 16 4 CB dust sampling. 17 A. (Reviews.) 18 Q. Did I read that correctly? 19 A. Bay 4 would be a manufacturing 20 area. 21 Q. Okay. 22 CB dust sampling, do you know what 23 that refers to? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Okay. 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 A. It is not. 3 Q. Okay. 4 This appears to be dated 3/30/73. 5 CB sampling Line 9, DFD 0144. 6 Do you know what that refers to? 7 A. That would not be a phenolic 8 molding material. I don't know what it is. 9 Q. Okay. 10 Over to the right about halfway 11 down the writing there, there appears to be a 12 calculation and then to the right it says 4.1 13 something slash -14 A. On Page 413? 15 Q. Yes, sir. 16 A. Yeah. 17 Q. I'll show you here. 18 A. Yeah. 19 Q. I've highlighted it on mine. 20 A. Okay. 21 Q. Right up there. See it says 4.1 22 something. 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Can you make out what that is? Do 25 you have any idea what that is? * s i 1 a 1 t l Page 155 Page 157 | 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Does this appear - what's 3 reported here also below that is 3/29/73 building 4 4 MM lab asbestos testing. 5 A. (Reviews.) 6 Q. Do you see that, sir? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. That's molding material lab. 10 Q. Okay. That would be your lab? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. Manufacturing. 14 Q. So again what we see on Bates 15 Number 412 would not be the studies that you had 16 requested being done? 17 A. That's right. 18 Q. Have you reviewed this document 19 before? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Okay. 22 Let's look at 413. The same 23 question, if you recognize this and does this 24 appear to be related to the testing that you 25 requested being done? 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 A. No. 3 MS. CLARK: Foundation. 4 Q. Okay. All right. 5 Let's go ahead and turn to the 6 next page which is, ends, Bates number ending in 7 414. 8 A. (Reviews.) 9 Q. This appears to be dated 3/26/73. 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Dust building 105 mezzanine. 12 Do you see that, sir? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Okay. 15 Are you familiar with building 16 105? 17 A. This is not even the phenolic 18 area. 19 Q. Okay. 20 A. It's one of the manufacturing 21 buildings. 22 Q. There's a reference to a name 23 Weiss, W-e-i-s-s. 24 Do you know who Mr. Weiss is? 25 A. Don't know. \ 40 (Pages 154 to 157) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 158 Page 160 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Q. Soltis, S-o-l-t-i-s right below 3 Weiss? 4 A. No. W-e-i-s-s? Yeah. 5 Q. Correct. 6 A. No, no, I don't know him. 7 Q. Soltis, S-o-l-t-i-s? 8 A. No, I don't know him. 9 Q. Okay. 10 Let's turn to the next page Bates 11 number ending in 415, date 2/26/73. 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Canadian Pacific Railroad. 14 A. (Reviews.) 15 Q. Do you see that, sir? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Have you reviewed this document 18 before, sir? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Okay. 21 In looking at this can you tell if 22 this is with regards to delivery of asbestos or 23 some other products? 24 MS. CLARK: Foundation. 25 A. I can't tell. 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 eight point two levels? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Okay. 5 Staying on Page 416, it appears to 6 be sample 1, open paren, it says JM Number 3. 7 Do you see that? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Do you recall studying 10 Johns-Manville fibers? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Okay. 13 Let's look at the next page Bates 14 number ending in 417. 15 A. (Reviews.) 16 Q. This seems to say something about 17 a parallel sample with Elliott Mason, New Jersey 18 Department of Labor. 19 Do you see that? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Okay. Unit B, bin, excuse me, 22 BMM-5303 BK25 seems to be what's being studied, 23 correct? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. It appears it says changes. Then Page 159 Page 161 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Q. Did Union Carbide receive its 3 Carey asbestos by rail? 4 MS. CLARK: Foundation. 5 A. I don't, I don't remember. 6 Q. Okay. 7 Let's turn to the next Bates 8 number ending in 416. 9 A. (Reviews.) 10 Q. It appears to be a date of 2/22 11 and it says asbestos, I can't make out the next 12 word. 13 Can you make that out, sir? 14 A. No, I can't. 15 Q. Asbestos something samples. It 16 looks like it's dated 2/16. 17 Have you reviewed this document 18 before, sir? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Towards the bottom of the writing 21 on that Page 416 there are some calculations with 22 some times. 23 Do you recall seeing reports 24 indicating exposure levels in the point six one 25 five, point four one, point three three or the 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 it says something bag slash 7RF9 at fifty pounds 3 equals three hundred and fifty pounds? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. That adds up. 7 Q. Seven bags? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Seven bags of 7RF9 at fifty pounds 10 equals three hundred and fifty pounds. Okay. 11 Do you know whose asbestos product 12 was referred to as 7RF9? 13 MS. CLARK: Objection. 14 Foundation. 15 A. No, I don't. 16 Q. Okay. 17 Would it surprise you to find out 18 that that's a Johns-Manville product? 19 A. It is? 20 Q. I believe it is. 21 A. Oh, okay. 22 Q. Appears to be start at 14:16:30. 23 Left until - it says start at 14:16:30. Stop at , 24 14:26:30. Equals ten minutes at twenty - at 25 twenty-one milliliters per minute equals twenty 41 (Pages 158 to 161) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 162 Page 164 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 liters. 3 Does that appear to be what it 4 says there, sir? 5 MS. CLARK: Foundation. 6 Calls for speculation. 7 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 8 A. I don't know what that means. 9 10 BY MR. GALERSTON: 11 Q. Okay. 12 Below that it says millipore 2 13 dash 8 dash 3 and then there is a chart that has 14 some countings. 15 A. Yeah. 16 Q. Which you'd agree with me it 17 appears to be the asbestos fibers that whoever is 18 doing this prepared this document found, correct? 19 MS. CLARK: Objection. 20 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 21 MS. CLARK: Calls for speculation. 22 Misstates facts. 23 A. I am not familiar with what he has 24 there. 25 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 would be asbestos? 3 A. I don't 4 MS. CLARK: Objection. 5 Foundation. 6 A. Is that 41-7 Q. 8. 8 A. - 8? It says carbon here. 9 Q. In the middle you see where it 10 says dump six bags carbon in two minute? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. 13 I see that as well. 14 I also see something about a dead 15 battery. 16 Carbon, was that an additive used 17 in phenolics? 18 A. Some -- 19 MS. CLARK: Vague as to time. 20 Go ahead. 21 A. Some carbon black was used for the 22 black 15, but this doesn't appear to be the 23 phenolic molding area. They're talking about 24 Banbury operator here. 25 Q. A what kind of operator? Page 163 Page 165 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 BY MR. GALERSTON: 3 Q. Okay. 4 You have not reviewed this 5 document prior to today? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Okay. 8 Next Bates number ending in 418. 9 It says weighted millipore filter for gravimetric 10 dust sampling. 11 A. (Reviews.) 12 Q. Do you see that, sir? 13 A. Which -- 14 Q. 418. 15 A. 418? 16 Q. No, no, the same document. 17 A. Oh, okay. 18 Q. Bates number ending in 418. 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Okay. 21 Do you recall reviewing this 22 document prior to today? 23 A. No, I do not see it. 24 Q. Do you know whether or not the 25 material that's being studied in this document 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 A. Banbury. 3 Q. What's a Banbury? 4 A. That's way down in the bottom. 5 Q. Okay. Yeah. I see that there by 6 A03202? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. What does a Banbury operator do? 9 A. A Banbury is like a big kneader. 10 Q. Measuring device? 11 A. Yeah, a mixing device, yeah. It's 12 like a machine that, a big dome machine. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. That's used for thermoplastics. 15 Q. Next is a document ending in Bates 16 Number 419 dated 12/6/72, dust samples for G.E., 17 Ealer or Martino? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Okay. 20 Does this appear to be related to 21 the studies that we talked about in Exhibit 10? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Okay. 24 It has four runs listed on the 25 left. It says Run 1, BMM-5303 BK25 with external 42 (Pages 162 to 165) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 166 Page 168 j 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 additive. 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. What does that mean? 5 A. It had some additive to keep the 6 dust down. 7 Q. Okay. 8 G.E. Ealer dumped five bags in 9 five minutes, five-minute intervals. Then it 10 says 2, dump on light dusting, is that correct? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. 13 Have you reviewed this document 14 prior to today? 15 A. I've seen the document that 16 summarizes this experiment. I haven't -- this 17 looks like the notebook sheet that was used 18 during the time it was running the experiment. 19 Q. This appears to be Mr. Neal's 20 notes from the time that he did this? 21 A. This is a notebook page. 22 Q. Okay. 23 Do you understand what that means 24 when he dumped five bags in five-minute intervals 25 2 dump on light dusting? 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Q. Okay. 3 5303 did contain asbestos, right? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Run 3 states that BMM-5303 black 6 as is unmodified filter clean Number 2 pump 7 something reduced found blue paper spacer between 8 filter and mat. Okay. 9 A. (Reviews.) 10 Q. Did I read that correctly? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. 13 Run Number 4, BME-5000 BK. 14 Another asbestos-containing product, correct? 15 A. Yes. No, not, not BMG-5000. That 16 was all wood flower fill. 17 Q. Okay. 18 As is dusty, but readily settled 19 Number 1 pump like 5303? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Okay. 22 Then it says Run 1, Slide 1, two 23 point nine fibers per milliliter. Then there is 24 a calculation three point three I believe it says 25 above. Page 167 Page 169 j 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 A. No. 3 Q. The next line it says Run 2, 4 BMG-2080 BK25, very dusty to exemplify wood 5 cellulose fibers? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Filter black? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Number 2 pump 68? 10 A. Can't tell what that is. It could 11 be on. 12 Q. I think above it was Number 2 pump 13 on 14 A. On. 15 Q. -- colon, light dusting. 16 A. Uh-huh. 17 Q. This just says Number 2 pump on. 18 Okay. 19 BMG-2080, do you recall whether or 20 not that is an asbestos-containing product? 21 MS. CLARK: Vague. Vague, 22 ambiguous. 23 A. At the time of this test - I'd 24 have to check the formula for, at this particular 25 date. It did not normally have asbestos in it. 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Can you tell? 3 MS. CLARK: Objection. 4 Misstates document. 5 Q. Can you tell what that says, sir? 6 A. Yeah. I don't know what that 7 means. 8 Q. Okay. 9 Then it says slide 2, three point 10 seven fibers per milliliter. Range three to four 11 fibers per milliliter. 12 Do you see that? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Okay. 15 Then right below that it says 16 something nine point zero. It appears that there 17 is some whiting out there. 18 Do you see that? 19 A. Yeah. 20 MS. CLARK: Objection. 21 Misstates document. 22 A. You know, these are all notes of 23 how he - referring to the equipment he was using 24 I believe. 25 Q. Okay. _______ ___________ 43 (Pages 166 to 169) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-65 6-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 170 Page 172 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 The next line says Run Number 2, 3 too dense to see fibers. Many tiny particles, 4 right? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Run 3, no sample collected, due to 7 inter -- 8 A. Leaf. 9 Q. - leaf in filter? 10 A. Right. 11 Q. Number 4, too dense to accurately 12 count. All fibers characterized of wood? 13 A. Uh-huh. 14 Q. Okay? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Okay. 17 This is the first time that you've 18 actually reviewed these notes from this test that 19 Mr. Neal did? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Okay. 22 Let's turn to the next page Bates 23 number, ending in Bates Number 420 dated 24 11/10/72. 25 Test for asbestos in finished 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 there, it says to R.W. -- 3 A. Cope. 4 Q. - Cope? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. 11/13/71 conflr -- 7 A. Confirmation. 8 Q. Confirmation. Okay. 9 Do you know who Mr. R.W. Cope is? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Okay. 12 All right. 13 Sample 3, repeat run of sample 1 14 with J. Sanderson. 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Close - open paren, more dust, 17 close paren. Pump disconnected in last minute, 18 close paren. 19 Am I reading that correctly? 20 A. (Reviews.) 21 Q. Then right below that it says 2, 22 open paren, some dust noticed blowing from drain 23 into filter, right? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Okay. Page 171 Page 173 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 products material BMM-5303 BK25 for G. Ealer, 3 correct? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. 6 This is again continuing in the 7 study that is referenced in Exhibit 10? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. 10 Sample 1, personal, five minutes 11 at two liters per minute. Dumping from fifty 12 pound bags, open paren, one per minute, close 13 paren, into fiber drum. 14 A. (Reviews.) 15 Q. Did I read that correctly? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. 18 Number 2, area sample four feet 19 away from drum, approximately one foot above and 20 away from natural draft. 21 A. (Reviews.) 22 Q. Did I read that correctly? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And in between those two, that one 25 and two there appears to be something written 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Number 5, repeat of Run 1 3 except 4 A. Material. 5 Q. - material. Thank you -- was 6 sprinkled? 7 A. Repacked. 8 Q. Repacked - thank you -- from drum 9 to used bags, then bags again dumped for tests. 10 Note, dust appeared just as severe as when fresh 11 material was first dumped from bags. 12 A. Uh-huh. 13 Q. Number 6, repeat of Number 2. 14 Then it appears to be number 15 slides 1, 2 and 3 which all have numbers 6.9, 16 10.6, 10.8, 7.1 which then is divided by four for 17 9.0 fibers per cc, correct? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Exhibit ending Bates Number 420, i 20 this is the first time that you've had an i 21 opportunity to review these notes too, sir? 22 A. Yes. ! 23 Q. Okay. i 24 This appears to be two separate i 25 studies that Mr. Neal was undertaking at your and 44 (Pages 170 to 173) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 174 Page 176 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Mr. Ealer's, Ealer's request? 3 A. Why do you 4 MS. CLARK: Assumes facts. 5 A. Why do you say separate? 6 Q. Are these continuation the same? 7 A. They're different dates. Okay. 8 Q. One appears to be studying the 9 handling of a finished product as stated at the 10 top of Bates number ending in 420 and the page 11 that's 419 appears to be the original mixing? 12 MS. CLARK: Objection. 13 Assumes facts. 14 A. They're both finished products. 15 Q. Okay. 16 419 is also studying the finished 17 product? 18 A. Yes. That's the BMM-5303. Plus 19 the others that are there too are finished 20 products. 21 Q. The next page is a page ending in 22 Bates Number 421 which is 10/11/72 nuisance dust 23 study done in building 105. 24 A. (Reviews.) 25 Q. Do you see that, sir? 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 prepared by Mr. Swalm which is his response to 3 Mr. Neal's work, correct? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. 6 Mr. Swalm's memo is dated March 7 14th, 1973. 8 Do you know the date of Mr. Neal's 9 report regarding his study? 10 MS. CLARK: Foundation. 11 Calls for speculation. 12 A. I don't remember the number -- the 13 date. 14 Q. Okay. 15 Would have preceded this one, 16 correct? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Have you reviewed Mr. Neal's 19 original report and findings since you have 20 retired from Union Carbide? 21 A. I did see it, yes. 22 Q. Did you see it in a deposition? 23 A. It was part of a deposition, yes. 24 Q. Okay. 25 I have not had an opportunity to Page 175 Page 177 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. This is not related to the work 4 that Mr. Neal was doing at your request, correct? 5 A. No. 6 Q. And page ending in Bates Number 7 422 appears to be a continuation of the previous 8 page, correct? 9 A. No. 10 MS. CLARK: Speculation. 11 Foundation. 12 A. No, it does not. 13 Q. Okay. 14 It says unit C continued. That 15 doesn't mean continued from the previous page? 16 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 17 Q. I agree with you, sir. They don't 18 appear to be related to me either now that I look 19 at them a little more closely. Okay. 20 So the two pages in Exhibit 11 21 which related to the work that Mr. Neal did at 22 your request were 419 and 420, correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Okay. 25 Exhibit Number 10 is a memo 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 find it. 3 Can you describe to me the length 4 of the report? 5 A. Oh. I don't recall how many 6 pages. I just recall, you know, what was in it. 7 Q. Okay. 8 And what was Mr. Neal's findings? 9 A. As I recall 10 MS. CLARK: Objection. 11 Foundation. 12 A. As I recall the 5303 that 13 contained thirty percent asbestos did not meet 14 OSHA regulation, minimum limits. Products that 15 contained less, fifteen percent or less asbestos 16 did. This was on a -- we were not allowed -- we 17 didn't finish the test. The OSHA regulation 18 allows you to go to a time weighted average over 19 an eighty-hour period which we didn't do. 20 It also allows you to analyze the 21 fibers and determine which are asbestos and which : 22 are cellulosic fibers which we didn't do. j 23 At that point we were told it 24 didn't make any difference what we came up with. 25 We're going to put labels on the bags and on 45 (Pages 174 to 177) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO CO O Page 178 Page 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 everything. So that was the extent of it. I 3 don't think we did any more work. 4 Q. The statement that we find in 5 Exhibit Number 10 in the last paragraph on Page 1 6 where it says that Mr. Neal took samples of 7 artificially created dust clouds which showed 8 that airborne concentrations well above the ten 9 fibers per cc ceiling exposure limit could, 10 comma, indeed, comma, be generated from products 11 containing high amounts of regular, open paren, 12 Carey, close paren, asbestos, period. 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. That's consistent with what you 15 were just describing, correct? 16 A. Yes, yes. This was done under the 17 worst possible conditions that we could think of. 18 Q. Prior to this testing that 19 Mr. Neal did in late 1972 or early 1973 to 20 determine the asbestos released from the handling 21 of Union Carbide's Bakelite materials, had any 22 other testing been done to determine whether or 23 not the end product would release asbestos fibers 24 when handled or mishandled? 25 MS. CLARK: Foundation. 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Q. Okay. 3 You're not aware of any such 4 studies? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Correct? 7 A. No. 8 MR. GALERSTON: Do you know what, 9 I'm sorry. I'm going to have to take a break. 10 MS. CLARK: Okay. 11 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 12 1:45. 13 We are going off the record. 14 (Whereupon, a short recess is 15 taken.) 16 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Standby, 17 please. 18 The time is 1:53. 19 We are on the record. 20 MR. GALERSTON: All right. 21 22 BY MR. GALERSTON: 23 Q. Sir, looking at Exhibit 10, the 24 second paragraph starting with OSHA 1910.93A. 25 A. (Reviews.) | i | 1 li 1 1 | % Page 179 Page 181 j 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Calls for speculation. 3 A. It was -- the routine testing was 4 done in manufacturing at the finished end of the 5 line to determine if there were, you know, if it 6 meant OSHA regulations and, you know, that's 7 before it went into the bags or Gaylords and as 8 far as I know we always passed. 9 Q. Prior to 1972 when OSHA was 10 enacted or late 1971 when the emergency standards 11 went into effect 12 A. Yeah, yeah. 13 Q. - had Union Carbide undertaken 14 any efforts to study whether or not asbestos 15 fibers released from its Bakelite 16 asbestos-containing products? 17 MS. CLARK: Foundation. 18 Calls for speculation. 19 Beyond the scope of the notice. 20 A. This is prior to when the OSHA 21 test was introduced? 22 Q. Correct. 23 A. Prior? 24 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 25 A. If there was I don't know. 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Q. Do you see that, sir? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Okay. 5 The paragraph starts off with a 6 recitation of the OSHA rule regarding labeling of 7 products containing asbestos. And it says except 8 where asbestos fibers have been modified by a 9 bonding agent, coating, binder or other material 10 so that during any reasonable foreseeable use, 11 handling, storage, disposal, processing or 12 transportation, no airborne concentration in 13 excess of the exposure limits prescribed will be 14 released. 15 The writer goes on to state that 16 under these terms effective July 7th, 1972 we, 17 meaning Union Carbide, chose to not label our, 18 Union Carbide's, asbestos-containing molding 19 materials presuming that with reasonable usage no 20 hazardous levels would be reached with our 21 products. We did not find high levels in final 22 product handling areas of our own production 23 operations, although dusty conditions were 24 encountered. 25 A. (Reviews.) 1 1 1 ( % * p 46 (Pages 178 to 181) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO 1 >-- 00 Page 182 Page 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Q. Do you agree with that statement, 3 sir? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. 6 What study had Union Carbide done 7 of its asbestos-containing Bakelite materials to 8 determine that the asbestos in it was bonded and 9 not readily released? 10 MS. CLARK: Objection. 11 Foundation. 12 Calls for speculation and an expert 13 opinion. 14 Beyond the scope. 15 A. Prior to this, these experiments, 16 as I mentioned before, was the measuring the 17 release from the product before it went into the 18 final package. 19 Q. Okay. 20 In 1972 when the OSHA standards 21 went in effect, Union Carbide understood that its 22 Bakelite materials that it was manufacturing and 23 selling were materials that were going to be used 24 by electrical equipment manufacturers to prepare 25 component parts for other materials that they 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Calls for speculation. 3 A. The finished molded part was made 4 to specifications with holes and attachments so 5 that it did not need to be machined or drilled. 6 It just could be attached or put into wherever it 7 was supposed to be put. That was not - we did 8 not consider that a potential problem. 9 We did run tests where we did our 10 own machine grinding on a molded plaque to 11 determine that in the event that it was done, 12 what was released be unsafe and as I recall, we 13 were well within OSHA limits, very low, but I 14 have not been able to find the documentation that 15 was made at that time and even though I've asked 16 for it, nobody seems to be able to locate it. 17 Q. Object to the non-responsive 18 nature of the answer. 19 When is it your recollection that 20 this testing of the plaque was done? 21 A. Probably in the same time frame as 22 this. 23 Q. Okay. 24 This being the 1992 - 72, 73 25 study? 1 s 1 I 1 1 1 ij * 1 Page 183 Page 185 \ 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 were going to sell to consumers, right? 3 A. Yes. 4 MS. CLARK: Objection. 5 Overly broad. 6 Ambiguous. 7 Q. Union Carbide knew that its 8 Bakelite materials would be molded into hard 9 plastic-type materials that would then be sent 10 into the field and used by third parties, 11 correct? 12 A. Yes. 13 MS. CLARK: Overly broad. 14 Ambiguous. 15 Give me a chance. 16 THE WITNESS: Sorry. 17 18 BY MR. GALERSTON: 19 Q. With that understanding what did 20 Union Carbide do to determine whether or not 21 asbestos fiber would be released when that 22 finished hardened plastic was used in the field? 23 MS. CLARK: Objection. 24 Beyond the scope. 25 Calls for expert opinion. 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Okay. 4 Would the study have been done by 5 Mr. Neal? 6 MS. CLARK: Foundation. 7 Calls for speculation. 8 A. Somebody would be there to take 9 the samples and run them, but I don't recall 10 whether it was Mr. Neal or not. 11 Q. Okay. 12 Prior to the studies which, the 13 1972, 1973 studies including the grinding of the 14 molded plaque and the studies done by Mr. Neal 15 which are reflected in Exhibits 10 and 11, is it 16 correct to assume that Union Carbide had not 17 attempted to study asbestos fiber release from 18 its Bakelite asbestos-containing products? 19 MS. CLARK: Objection. 20 Foundation. 21 Calls for speculation. 22 Beyond the scope. 23 A. Prior to the introduction of the 24 test? 25 Q. Yes. The ones that we just talked 1 1 1 f* . 47 (Pages 182 to 185) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 186 Page 188 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 about in Exhibits 10 and 11 and the plaque 3 grinding. 4 A. Oh, prior to that? 5 MS. CLARK: Same objections and 6 misstates testimony. 7 A. Tests were run in our laboratory 8 as soon as the OSHA test was made available to 9 determine whether the environment was safe for 10 people working there. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. That was done in all the 13 laboratories and repeated periodically. 14 Q. So as of '71, '72 time period, 15 correct? 16 A. Yeah, yeah. 17 Q. Prior to 1971 the enactment of the 18 emergency standards of OSHA and the studies that 19 we've seen reflected in Exhibits 10, 11 and the 20 molded plaque grinding study done by your lab, is 21 it fair to assume that Union Carbide did not 22 study asbestos fiber release from either its 23 finished products or the materials that it sold 24 to its customers? 25 MS. CLARK: Objection. 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Q. This is a multi materials meeting 3 that was held May 18th, 1973, correct? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. The memo was prepared by 6 F.A. Schillinger? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Is that correct? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And he was reporting to you, 11 Mr. Potter and Mr. Stringer, correct? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Okay. 14 The first section is with regards 15 to the movement of several product lines to 16 Canada, correct? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. It makes reference to 2080, 2035, 19 0750, 3001 and 5418 and - 5418, correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Were any of those 22 asbestos-containing formulas? 23 MS. CLARK: Foundation. 24 A. I'm not sure about -- I'd have to 25 look at the sheets to determine that. Page 187 Page 189 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Assumes facts. 3 Calls for speculation. 4 Foundation. 5 Beyond the scope. 6 A. Prior to that time, if anything 7 was done I was not aware of it. 8 (Whereupon, two-page Union Carbide 9 internal memo dated May 29, 1973, not bearing 10 Bates stamps, is received and marked as UCC 11 Exhibit 12 for Identification.) 12 13 BY MR. GALERSTON: 14 Q. Sir, I'm going to hand you now 15 what I'm going to mark as Exhibit Number 12 to 16 your deposition. 17 A. (Reviews.) 18 Q. I ask you if you're familiar with 19 that document, sir. 20 A. Okay. 21 Q. Okay, sir. 22 Exhibit Number 12 appears to be a 23 Union Carbide internal memo dated May 29th, 1973, 24 correct? 25 A. Yes. 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. I don't recall. 4 Q. When several of these, several of 5 these and other formulations were ultimately 6 successfully transferred to Canada or to Bakelite 7 Canada, correct? 8 A. Yes. I'm trying to recall why we 9 did this. 10 Q. Well, sir, my question is is that 11 when Union Carbide in the United States, the 12 Bakelite Corporation stopped creating and selling 13 phenolics in 1974, '75 time period, did Bakelite 14 Canada continue selling them? 15 MS. CLARK: Objection. 16 Foundation. 17 A. I left the area in 19, mid 1973 I 18 think to go to a new assignment. So I don't know 19 what happened after that. They were still in 20 business when I was there and we were still in 21 business. 22 I could understand this if these 23 were low volume products and some of them are. | 24 0750 was. 5418 was. 2080- I 25 MS. CLARK: There is no question 48 (Pages 186 to 189) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 190 Page 192 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 pending, Carlo. 3 THE WITNESS: Yeah, yeah, okay. 4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Counsel, can we 5 go off the record for a minute? 6 MR. GALERSTON: We certainly may. 7 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 8 2:07. 9 We are going off the record. 10 (Whereupon, a short recess is 11 taken.) 12 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Standby, 13 please. 14 The time is 2:08. 15 We are on the record. 16 MR. GALERSTON: All right. 17 18 BY MR. GALERSTON: 19 Q. I believe that we have 20 successfully solved our technical issues. 21 We were discussing Exhibit Number 22 12. 23 I want to ask you specifically on 24 Page 2 of Exhibit 12 25 A. Yeah. 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 3 BY MR. GALERSTON: 4 Q. What is a standard Gaylord? 5 A. That would refer to a standard 6 size. 7 Q. Okay. 8 Standard size box? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Is that a standard size electrical 11 box? 12 A. No. 13 MS. CLARK: Objection. 14 Misstates testimony. 15 A. No. A Gaylord is a package that 16 multi material was put into a barge and shipped. 17 Q. Okay. 18 So if I understand you correctly 19 Union Carbide's Bakelite materials would be 20 shipped out in bags? 21 A. (Indicating.) 22 Q. In drums? 23 A. (Indicating.) 24 Q. In boxes, correct? 25 A. Yes. Page 191 Page 193 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Q. - Number 10 talks about obsolete 3 twenty-nine inch Square D boxes. 4 A. (Reviews.) 5 Q. Do you see that? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. It says F.A. Schillinger was 8 supplying F.E. Potter or is it P.E. Potter? 9 A. P.E. Potter. 10 Q. P.E. Potter the specification on 11 these boxes versus standard Gaylords. 12 A. Uh-huh. 13 Q. Potter will determine if they can 14 be used for other customers to avoid the two 15 thousand six hundred and forty dollar write off. 16 What kind of boxes are you talking 17 about there, twenty-nine inch Square D boxes? 18 MS. CLARK: Objection. 19 Foundation. 20 Calls for speculation. 21 MR. KINSEY: Let me join. 22 A. No, I don't know. 23 COURT REPORTER: Who was that on 24 the phone? 25 MR. KINSEY: This is Jeff Kinsey. 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Q. Boxes I take it then came in 3 different sizes? 4 A. No. The box is the Gaylord. 5 Q. Okay. 6 How big is a Gaylord? 7 A. Oh, about roughly four-by-four. 8 Oh, actually more than that. Maybe 9 five-by-five-by-five. 10 Q. Okay. 11 Does the reference here to the 12 obsolete twenty-nine inch Square D boxes indicate 13 to you that Square D was a supplier of boxes to 14 Union Carbide? 15 MS. CLARK: Objection. 16 Foundation. 17 Calls for speculation. 18 MR. KINSEY: Join. 19 A. No, they did not supply Gaylords 20 to us. 21 22 BY MR. GALERSTON: 23 Q. Can you make any sense of what's 24 there in reference 10? ill MS. CLARK: Just wait. 49 (Pages 190 to 193) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 194 Page 196 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 A. I3 MS. CLARK: Carlo, wait a minute, 4 please. 5 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 6 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 7 A. If there was a twenty-nine inch 8 size Gaylord I was not aware of it. 9 10 BY MR. GALERSTON: 11 Q. Item Number 8 asbestos warning 12 label, new bags had been ordered with an asbestos 13 warning statement, delivery expected in June. 14 Is that consistent with your 15 recollection that the first warnings went out in 16 73? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Okay. 19 (Whereupon, multi page document 20 entitled Bakelite Corporation Raw Material Code, 21 Number 1, RM-1 and up, bearing Bates stamps 22 A11948 through A11956, is received and marked as 23 UCC Exhibit 13 for Identification.) 24 MR. GALERSTON: Okay. 25 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Q. And this appears to be a 3 follow-up. There is a Number 2 of the raw 4 material codes, correct? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. I believe it says copy and has a 7 date 6/87 on it? 8 A. On which page? 9 Q. Oh, actually I guess all of them 10 have it. The first page says 6/87, does it not? 11 See up where it says copy 6/87? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. There are different dates on each 15 of the pages. 16 Q. Okay. 17 So when we look at the second page 18 of this exhibit which is ending in Bates Number 19 400 it's revised 12/12/61, correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And then we see a definition of 22 the various asbestos fibers used by Union Carbide 23 in the Bakelite division for the reference of 24 RM-18. 25 RM-18-A means fibers grade 6-D Page 195 Page 197 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 BY MR. GALERSTON: 3 Q. Sir, I'm going to hand you what 4 I'm marking as Exhibit Number 13 to your 5 deposition. 6 A. (Reviews.) 7 Q. Are you familiar with Exhibit 13, 8 sir? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Okay. 11 Exhibit 13 is titled Bakelite 12 Corporation raw material code Number 1, RM-1 and 13 up, correct? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Then following we have I guess 16 some excerpts from a document. We have RM-18 17 which is asbestos, correct? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And then we have following that 20 RM-85-Talc, correct? The next page, the third 21 page? 22 A. The next page? 23 Q. The third page of the document, 24 yeah. RM-85-Talc? 25 A. Yes. Yes. 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 from Asbestos Fiber Distributors considered 3 obsolete as of 1961, correct? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. RM-18-A would be floats grade 6 7RF-4 obtained from asbestos fiber distributors, 7 correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. It doesn't say obsolete following. 10 Does that mean that they would be 11 a current supplier of those and as of 1961? 12 MS. CLARK: Objection. 13 Foundation. 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Next would be RM-18-C which would 16 be long fibers. 17 What does pound 30 mean? Is that 18 a length or is that just a class? 19 MS. CLARK: Objection. 20 Foundation. 21 Calls for speculation. 22 A. I don't know. 23 Q. Okay. 24 If we look down the list B does 25 not have obsolete following it. 50 (Pages 194 to 197) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 198 Page 200 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 The next one that doesn't have 3 obsolete following it is O, RM-18-0, asbestos 4 fiber KB-653-6D, Asbestos Corporation, Limited, 5 correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And that's followed by P which is 8 asbestos floats 7TF from Johns-Manville, correct? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. We go to Bakelite Corporation raw 11 material codes Number 2 which starts at Bates 12 document ending in 402 and we look on the second 13 page. This appears not to be limited to 14 asbestos, does it? This has a lot of other 15 things in it, does it not? 16 MS. CLARK: Are you looking at 402 17 or 3? 18 MR. GALERSTON: Following 402, 19 looking at 403. 20 MS. CLARK: Okay. 21 A. What was your question? 22 23 BY MR. GALERSTON: 24 Q. The products listed on Page 403 25 don't all appear to be asbestos, do they? 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Q. The next page Bates number ending 3 405 we see another grade of asbestos from Lake 4 Asbestos 5449, correct? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. That's as of 1964. 7 The next page Bates number ending 8 406 you see reference to 5563 asbestos grade 9 7RF-9. This is from Carey Canadian mines, 10 correct? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. That's the asbestos that you're 13 most familiar with, sir, is that correct? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. The last page of Exhibit Number 13 16 states that asbestos was referenced to RM-18, 17 correct? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Okay. 20 So whenever we see a reference to 21 RM-18 we know that's an asbestos component, 22 correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. In terms of the formulation with 25 regards to those asbestos floats that we saw on Page 199 Page 201 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 A. One is. 3 Q. 2383 are asbestos floats? 4 A. Yes, yes. 5 Q. Which also I assume that 6 references RM- 18-P? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. The rest of the materials on that 9 would not be asbestos, correct? 10 A. No, they're not. 11 Q. Okay. 12 The next page Bates number ending 13 404 we see product 5417 asbestos fiber grade 7D4 14 as supplied by Lake Asbestos division, correct? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Lake Asbestos, would that be the 17 crocidolite asbestos? 18 MS. CLARK: Objection. 19 Misstates the evidence and the 20 testimony. 21 A. I don't know. 22 Q. Are you familiar with the Lake 23 Asbestos? 24 A. I don't recall much about Lake 25 Asbestos. 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Page 403, Bates Number 403 the fourth or fifth 3 page of the exhibit, the reference code is 2383? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. I'm confused. If asbestos is 6 normally referred to by product code RM-18, would 7 it also be possible to find a reference to 2383 8 that would refer to asbestos? 9 MS. CLARK: Objection. 10 Foundation. 11 Calls for speculation. 12 A. During the time I was in the 13 business the RM-18 was the common way to 14 designate the materials. I don't - I'm not 15 familiar with this other method of describing 16 them. 17 Q. Okay. 18 MR. GALERSTON: We don't have a 19 stapler, do we? 20 COURT REPORTER: No. 21 MR. GALERSTON: Okay. 22 (Whereupon, three-page document 23 bearing Bates stamps UCASB01875903, UCASB0187675 24 and UCASB00924626, is received and marked as UCC 25 Exhibit 14 for Identification.) 51 (Pages 198 to 201) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-65 6-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO . Page 202 Page 204 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 3 BY MR. GALERSTON: 4 Q. Sir, I'm going to hand you what 5 I'm marking as Exhibit Number 14 to your 6 deposition which I will represent to you are 7 exhibits taken from your Eubanks deposition 8 related to the Square D Company. 9 A. (Reviews.) 10 Q. Okay. 11 You can see that they're marked 12 down the lower right with the Martino Exhibit 13 Numbers 6, 7 and 8 from your July 11th, 19 -- 14 excuse me, 2007 deposition. 15 Do you see that, sir? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. 18 As you'll recall we discussed that 19 these were formulations -- well, the first two 20 were formulations of asbestos-containing 21 phenolics that Union Carbide prepared for 22 Square D, correct? 23 MS. CLARK: Objection. 24 Assumes facts. 25 A. The first one is. 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 3 of what's been marked as Exhibit 14 is where 3 even certain formulations were retired which had 4 been associated with a Square D Company, correct? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And if we had an opportunity to go 7 through the entirety of the Bakelite repository. 8 we would find additional materials related to the 9 Union Carbide Square D relationship, correct? 10 MS. CLARK: Objection. 11 Vague and ambiguous. 12 Assumes facts. 13 MR. KINSEY: I join. 14 A. I don't know. 15 16 BY MR. GALERSTON: 17 Q. Well, you do know that there is a 18 sales scroll related 19 A. Yeah. 20 Q. - to Square D, correct? 21 A. Oh, that's right. Sales scroll 22 would show what we did sell them. 23 Q. Okay. 24 You and I both - you've seen it 25 before and I've seen it now too? Page 203 Page 205 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Q. What about the second one? 3 A. That was invention Square D on the 4 sheet, but 6935 was sold to anyone who wanted it. 5 Q. Okay. 6 So it wasn't exclusively for 7 Square D? 8 A. No. 9 Q. But this was a product that Union 10 Carbide was selling to Square D, correct? 11 MS. CLARK: Objection. 12 Foundation. 13 MR. KINSEY: I will join. 14 A. I would have to look at the sales 15 records to determine when it was sold and if it 16 was replaced by something else. 17 18 BY MR. GALERSTON: 19 Q. Well, there is no dispute that 20 Square D was a consumer of Union Carbide's 21 asbestos-containing Bakelite -22 A. Yes. 23 MS. CLARK: Objection. 24 Vague and ambiguous. 25 Q. We see Exhibit 3, excuse me, Page 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 A. Yeah, yeah. 3 Q. And you know that there is 4 additional documentation in the Bakelite 5 repository showing the Union Carbide 6 Cutler-Hammer relationship, correct? 7 MS. CLARK: Objection. 8 Vague and ambiguous. 9 A. It would show if we had and when. 10 Q. Well, you've testified already 11 today 12 A. Yeah. 13 Q. - and previously that there was a 14 commercial relationship between 15 A. Yeah. 16 Q. - Union Carbide's Bakelite 17 division and Cutler-Hammer, correct? 18 A. Yeah. 19 MS. CLARK: Vague as to time. 20 Q. You're aware that there is a sales 21 scroll in the repository relating to the sales of 22 Union Carbide's asbestos-containing Bakelite 23 materials to Cutler-Hammer, correct? 24 A. Yeah. 25 MS. CLARK: Objection. 52 (Pages 202 to 205) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO .......... ......... i Page 206 Page 208 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Vague. 3 Assumes facts. 4 Q. You're aware that there is 5 documentation in the Bakelite repository 6 regarding the commercial relationship between 7 Union Carbide's Bakelite division and the 8 Allen-Bradley company for asbestos-containing 9 Bakelite, correct? 10 MS. CLARK: Objection. 11 Objection. 12 Vague. 13 Assumes facts. 14 MR. GALERSTON: I will ask that you 15 let me get my question out -- 16 MS. CLARK: Sorry. 17 MR. GALERSTON: -- before you start 18 your objection too. 19 A. In answering those questions I 20 know there are sales scrolls there. I don't know 21 in relation to those customers whether there is a 22 sales relationship without looking at those sales 23 scrolls. 24 25 BY MR. GALERSTON: 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 to sales to General Electric? 3 MS. CLARK: Objection. 4 Vague and ambiguous. 5 You can answer if you know. 6 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 7 A. Yes, but the point I'm trying to 8 make is that we also sold chemicals and General 9 Electric was probably a good chemical purchaser. 10 So when you say numerous, we're talking about 11 everything Carbide sold, not just molding 12 materials. 13 Q. Okay. 14 MR. GALERSTON: I tell you what, 15 let's go ahead and take a break for the 16 videographer so he can change out his tapes. 17 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 18 2:28. 19 This ends Tape 3 of the videotaped 20 deposition of Carlo Martino. 21 We are off the record. 22 (Whereupon, a short recess is 23 taken.) 24 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Standby, 25 please. Page 207 Page 209 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Q. You've previously looked at those 3 sales scrolls, correct, for those three entities? 4 A. Well, Cutler-Hammer, 5 Allen-Bradley, Square D, they're familiar. 6 This last one, what was that one? 7 Q. Allen-Bradley was the last one. 8 A. Oh, Allen-Bradley, yeah. 9 Q. Okay. 10 As you sit here I represented to 11 you that those are there. 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. I've seen them as well. 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. I've represented to you that there 16 is voluminous records relating to General 17 Electric, but you're not familiar with those, 18 correct? 19 MS. CLARK: Objection. 20 Misstates the evidence. 21 A. Voluminous with regard to 22 everything we sold to them or molding materials? 23 Q. That would be a fair distinction. 24 Are you aware that there are sales scrolls in the 25 Bakelite repository relating to sales, relating 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 The time is 2:41. 3 This begins Tape 4 of the 4 videotaped deposition of Carlo Martino. 5 We are on the record. 6 7 BY MR. GALERSTON: 8 Q. Sir, in reviewing documents in the 9 repository I saw references to Union, excuse me, 10 yeah, Union Carbide's sale of Bakelite materials 11 to Square D in reference to BMG-5498. 12 I don't recall, is that one of the 13 asbestos-containing phenolics that we saw 14 referenced in one of the earlier documents that 15 listed those, is 5498 one of them? 16 MS. CLARK: Objection. 17 Q. Do you recall? 18 MS. CLARK: Objection. 19 Foundation. 20 Vague. 21 A. 5498 was made with and without 22 asbestos. It's a question of what, the time. 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. The time frame. 25 Q. What's the line of demarcation? f 53 (Pages 206 to 209) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 210 Page 212 s 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 MS. CLARK: Objection. 3 Foundation. 4 A. Well, we took asbestos out, began 5 taking it out in 1970. I don't remember when we 6 started putting it in. 7 Q. So it would -- 5498 would become 8 asbestos-free some time when the natural process 9 of removing asbestos occurred? 10 A. Right. 11 Q. But prior to that it was 12 manufactured with asbestos? 13 A. For a period of time and then 14 prior to that it had no asbestos. So somewhere 15 in the late sixties there was another transition 16 to asbestos and then later out of asbestos. 17 Q. The document I saw made a 18 reference to moving Square D to BMG-5498. 19 Do you recall some reason or some 20 rationale for moving Square D to BMG-5498? 21 MS. CLARK: Foundation. 22 Calls for speculation. 23 MR. KINSEY: Join. 24 A. What was the date that that was to 25 be done? 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 working for PSE&G? 3 A. He would have - the depositions 4 focus on the use of Bakelite to describe sheet 5 material, and that was lumped together with 6 Micarta which is a trademark for Westinghouse 7 laminate and Textolite which is a trademark for 8 G.E. laminates, and then he also calls a phenolic 9 a laminate. 10 So based on that, my conclusion 11 would be that he would have been exposed to 12 laminate-type materials and, therefore, if there 13 was any Union Carbide product in there, it could 14 only be the resin. And I can't -- from the 15 from the comments made I have no way of knowing 16 whether our resin was made to make those 17 laminates or Westinghouse used its own resin or 18 where it came from. And the resin would not 19 contain asbestos. 20 Q. Union Carbide's 21 asbestos-containing Bakelite materials were made 22 for manufacturing electric components by several 23 companies such as Square D, Allen-Bradley and 24 Cutler-Hammer, correct? 25 MS. CLARK: Objection. j s 1 i i s 1 1 ;! | } Page 211 Page 213 1 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 3 BY MR. GALERSTON: 4 Q. You know, I don't know. My note 5 does not say that. 6 A. It would depend on the date. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. Otherwise I don't know. 9 Q. As you sit here there is no 10 that has no recollection or reference for you? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Okay. 13 Sir, I've had an opportunity to 14 ask you questions about many of the documents 15 related to Union Carbide's Bakelite products. 16 I want to ask you about any 17 opinions that you may have formulated after your 18 review of materials in this case, okay? 19 A. Material in the what? 20 Q. In this case. 21 A. In this case? 22 Q. Have you formulated any opinions 23 as to whether or not you believe that 24 Mr. Whitmire would have been exposed to asbestos 25 from Union Carbide's Bakelite products while 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Assumes facts. 3 Overly broad. 4 Vague. 5 MR. KINSEY: Join. 6 A. Our phenolic molding materials was 7 one of the products used to make electrical 8 switch gear and that type, but it was not the 9 only product thermosetting resin that these 10 companies bought. 11 12 BY MR. GALERSTON: 13 Q. You 14 A. There are also melamine molding 15 materials, silicone molding materials, polyesters 16 and there are also many other, and some 17 thermoplastics. 18 So, you know, what a particular 19 molded part was made from could be any of those. 20 Q. I object to the non-responsive 21 nature of the answer. 22 Sir, my question was simply that 23 you were aware in the nineteen-fifties, 24 nineteen-sixties and through the seventies until 25 Union Carbide stopped selling Bakelite that Union \ | L 5 54 (Pages 210 to 213) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 214 Page 216 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Carbide's asbestos-containing Bakelite was used 3 by companies such as Square D, Cutler-Hammer and 4 Allen-Bradley to manufacture electrical 5 components such as switch gears, correct? 6 MS. CLARK: Objection. 7 Overly broad as to time. 8 Assumes facts. 9 Foundation. 10 A. It was used to make some of their 11 products. 12 Q. You, I believe you testified in 13 the Eubanks case that it was your belief that 14 Union Carbide's asbestos-containing phenolic 15 could not be used to manufacture arc chutes, is 16 that correct? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Okay. 19 Have you had an opportunity since 20 then to review deposition testimony of any of the 21 witnesses who testified in this case that they 22 did use asbestos-containing phenolics to 23 manufacture arc chutes? 24 A. No. 25 MS. CLARK: Objection. 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 asbestos-containing phenolics? 3 MS. CLARK: Objection. 4 Misstates evidence. 5 MR. KINSEY: Join. 6 A. I don't - I'd have to review 7 those depositions. I don't recall that part. 8 9 BY MR. GALERSTON: 10 Q. Electrical boxes were frequently 11 outfitted with a plastic board in the back of 12 them. 13 Are you familiar with what I'm 14 referring to, sir? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. The plastic board in the back of 17 electrical boxes, motor controllers or whatever 18 their purposes are would not be laminates, 19 correct? 20 MS. CLARK: Objection. 21 Misstates facts. 22 Calls for speculation. 23 A. It could be laminates. 24 Q. Sir, you have seen I assume on 25 numerous occasions electrical boxes with Bakelite Page 215 Page 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Misstates facts. 3 A. The statements made with regard to 4 arc chutes in those depositions stated that they 5 did not use phenolic arc chutes. 6 Q. Have you seen the testimony of 7 industrial hygienist Kenneth Cohen with regard to 8 testing of arc chutes to determine and to prove 9 that they had asbestos content in them? 10 MS. CLARK: Objection. 11 Misstates evidence. 12 A. Whose testimony? 13 Q. Ken Cohen. 14 A. Tim Cohen? 15 Q. Ken. 16 A. Oh, Ted? 17 Q. Ken, K-e-n, Ken Cohen? 18 A. Ken Cohen, was that one of the 19 depositions? 20 Q. In the Eubanks case. 21 ....... A. Oh. in the Eubanks case? ....... 22 Q. Yes, sir. 23 A. And would you repeat again what? 24 Q. His testimony with regards to his 25 testing to establish that arc chutes were 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 boards in the back? 3 MS. CLARK: Objection. 4 Q. Correct? 5 MS. CLARK: Objection. 6 Vague and ambiguous. 7 A. Bakelite boards as described in 8 the depositions were laminates. 9 Q. Sir, I'm not talking about what 10 was described in the deposition. 11 I'm talking about your personal 12 experience dealing with customers such as 13 Square D, Cutler-Hammer and Allen-Bradley and 14 their use of phenolic resins as boards in the 15 back of control boxes. 16 MS. CLARK: Is there a question 17 there? 18 Q. Are you familiar with that, sir, 19 that usage? 20 MS. CLARK: Objection. 2-1 Overly broad...... ............... ...................... 22 Vague. 23 Assumes facts. 24 MR. KINSEY: Join. I25 A. I'm hesitating because of the use 55 (Pages 214 to 217) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 218 Page 220 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 of Bakelite boards. I don't call them Bakelite 3 boards. I call them laminates. We didn't make 4 boards. 5 Now, some people in the industry 6 may call them Bakelite. 7 8 BY MR. GALERSTON: 9 Q. Union Carbide didn't make 10 anything, any products with it. They just made a 11 material for others to make into other things, 12 correct? 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q. So Union Carbide didn't make 15 laminates or boards or anything. They just 16 provided it to others who then used it as they 17 saw fit, correct? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. Have you reviewed the testimony of 20 any representatives from Cutler-Hammer, 21 Allen-Bradley or Square D in connection with 22 their use of Union Carbide's Bakelite materials? 23 MS. CLARK: Objection. 24 Misstates facts. 25 A. In these depositions? 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 My question is have you ever seen 3 corporate representatives testifying as to 4 Square D's use of Union Carbide's Bakelite in 5 Square D control boxes in other Square D 6 equipment? 7 MS. CLARK: Objection. 8 Vague. 9 Overly broad. 10 Ambiguous. 11 A. By testify that would have to be 12 at a trial, is that correct? 13 Q. No, I'm talking about you 14 reviewing it. Reading it. 15 A. Oh, reading it. 16 Q. Their deposition, their trial 17 testimony, their sworn Answers to Interrogatories 18 from Square D. 19 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 20 A. I don't remember seeing any of 21 that. 22 Q. Okay. 23 Have you - likewise I assume 24 you've never seen sworn testimony or Answers to 25 Interrogatories from anyone at Allen-Bradley Page 219 Page 221 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Q. In any deposition. Have you ever 3 reviewed any testimony of corporate 4 representatives from those companies regarding 5 their use of Union Carbide's Bakelite materials? 6 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 7 A. Volume 9 in this deposition was -- 8 were questions directed to Mr. Whitmire with 9 regard to what he -- whether or not he drilled, 10 cut, sanded any non-metallic part in a Square D 11 product and his testimony was that he did not. 12 That's one deposition, I assume that was by a 13 Square D attorney, an attorney representing 14 Square D who was asking the questions. 15 Any others, I don't recall 16 anything in the Eubanks case, but that was a long 17 time ago. I know Square D was involved there, 18 but I don't recall any Square D testimony that I 19 saw there. I can't remember any others. 20 Q. Okay. 21 And I apologize if my question was 22 not direct, but my question is, it's not 23 questioning by Square D lawyers or testimony by 24 men like Mr. Whitmire and their use of Square D 25 products. 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 regarding Allen-Bradley's use of Union Carbide's 3 phenolics in Allen-Bradley control boxes in other 4 Allen-Bradley electrical equipment, correct? 5 MS. CLARK: Assumes facts. 6 Overly broad. 7 Ambiguous. 8 A. That's correct. 9 Q. Likewise I assume that you have 10 not seen any sworn testimony, deposition, trial, 11 arbitration, Answers to Interrogatories from 12 Cutler-Hammer regarding Cutler-Hammer's use of 13 Union Carbide's Bakelite phenolics in its 14 electrical control boxes, motor controllers and 15 other electrical equipment, correct? 16 A. Yes. 17 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 18 THE WITNESS: Sorry, Kate. 19 20 BY MR. GALERSTON: 21 Q. Because Union Carbide's 22 asbestos-containing Bakelite was in an unfinished 23 form when it was shipped out, you would not 24 expect the final product that is actually 25 appearing in the field to have any Bakelite stamp 56 (Pages 218 to 221) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO -- Page 222 i 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 1 2 on it, would you? 2 3 MS. CLARK: Objection. 3 4 Vague and ambiguous. 4 5 A. That's correct. 5 6 Q. Bakelite was a trademark name, 6 7 correct? 7 8 A. Yes. 8 9 Q. Anyone who used Bakelite in their 9 10 promotional materials for their equipment would 10 11 have to be authorized by Union Carbide to do so 11 12 or subject to injunction, correct? 12 13 MS. CLARK: Objection. 13 14 Calls for speculation. 14 15 Beyond the scope. 15 16 A. During the period of time I was 16 17 there, yes. 17 18 Q. And is it safe to assume that 18 19 Union Carbide did allow its customers to use its 19 20 trademark Bakelite name in its promotional 20 21 materials if they were actually using Bakelite? 21 22 MS. CLARK: Objection. 22 23 Misstates facts. 23 24 Vague and ambiguous. 24 25 A. You're saying that they would 25 Page CARLO F. MARTINO don't think that was considered. No action was taken with regard to that. Q. If I understand you correctly, it's your opinion that Mr. Whitmire's use of Bakelite may very well be incorrect, is that correct? MS. CLARK: Objection. Unintelligible. Ambiguous. A. His use of the word Bakelite? Q. Correct. MS. CLARK: Same objections. A. No, it's commonly - in the laminate industry Bakelite was commonly used to refer to a laminate whether it was ours or not. So I would not say that it was incorrect. Incorrect as far as that we didn't make it, but it was a Bakelite type of product. Q. Okay. And that's my point. Is it your opinion that it wasn't Union Carbide's Bakelite, correct? A. Yes. Q. But you do know that Mr. Whitmire 224 Page 223 Page 225 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 advertise a part and say made from Bakelite BMG 3 something? 4 Q. They may reference that they use 5 Bakelite in their equipment. 6 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 7 Also calls for speculation. 8 Foundation. 9 A. I don't recall seeing anything 10 like that. 11 Q. Okay. 12 Were you aware of any efforts made 13 by Union Carbide in the nineteen-fifties and 14 nineteen-sixties to prevent its customers or 15 competitors from improperly using the Bakelite 16 term? 17 MS. CLARK: Objection. 18 Foundation. 19 Beyond the scope. 20 A. The use of the Bakelite term in 21 advertising by somebody other than Bakelite I 22 don't recall ever seeing. 23 The use of Bakelite verbally to, 24 with regard to a certain part or a certain 25 product, that I encountered frequently, but I 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 distinguishes between Bakelite, Micarta and 3 Textolite, right? 4 A. With regard to color. Well, let's 5 see. Bakelite he said was black and he said 6 Textolite was black so he didn't distinguish 7 between those two. I think he said he or was it 8 Nance said that the Micarta was gray in color and 9 he said the phenolic was brown in color, but he 10 said they were all sheet materials. 11 Q. Mr. Whitmire discussed working 12 around more than just sheet materials that 13 required 14 Strike that. 15 You agree with me that 16 Mr. Whitmire described working around other 17 plastic materials such as arc chutes and switch 18 gears in addition to the sheet material, correct? 19 MS. CLARK: Objection. 20 Misstates facts. 21 A. He - in his testimony he 22 mentioned arc chutes and so did Nance. 23 The deposition was very unclear as 24 to what if any molded parts he had any contact [25 with. It was very unclear. And my 57 (Pages 222 to 225) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 226 Page 228 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 interpretation was that when he was drilling or 3 sanding or so forth it was the laminate that was 4 used as an insulation that he was talking about, 5 not the molded part. I'd need more information 6 to be convinced that it was a molded part. 7 Q. Okay. 8 You've never worked in a 9 powerhouse, correct? 10 A. No. 11 Q. You've never worked as an 12 electrician maintaining and repairing electrical 13 equipment in a powerhouse, correct? 14 A. No. 15 Q. You're not in a position to 16 testify that the only materials that Mr. Whitmire 17 worked around would have been laminates, are you? 18 MS. CLARK: Objection. 19 Calls for speculation. 20 Overly broad. 21 A. All I can testify is that based on 22 what I read here I can't say what else he worked 23 with. 24 Q. You can't rely upon any external 25 expertise for you to say that the only thing that 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. - you're discounting that part, 4 correct? 5 MS. CLARK: Objection. 6 Misstates facts. 7 Argumentative. 8 A. I'm discounting what? 9 Q. When Mr. Whitmire testifies that 10 he worked with Bakelite 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. - you're saying that it really 13 wasn't Bakelite, it was a resin, right? 14 MS. CLARK: Objection. 15 Misstates fact and testimony. 16 A. What I'm saying is that based on 17 his testimony he convinced me that he was working 18 with laminates and if so and if our product was 19 used anywhere, then it would be as a resin for 20 one of those laminates, but even that is not 21 certain because you can't, you can't prove 22 whether it's ours or somebody else's. 23 Q. And it's your - oh. 24 A. With regard to anything else he 25 was working with, he did not make that clear in Page 227 Page 229 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 he would have worked on or around would have been 3 laminates, are you? 4 MS. CLARK: Objection. 5 Overly broad. 6 A. That the only thing that he worked 7 on - I wouldn't say that that's the only thing 8 that he worked on. I can only say that based on 9 the testimony I read that's the only thing that I 10 have that convinces me that there was work on 11 laminates. 12 If there was work on molded 13 products, that is not clear in the deposition and 14 I don't know whether he did or not. 15 Q. Okay. 16 Other than the testimony that he 17 worked on arc chutes which is a molded product, 18 correct? 19 A. Well, no. I think we went into 20 that in the Eubanks case. We thought it was a 21 laminate, a melamine glass laminate. 22 Q. Okay. 23 With regards to -- strike that. 24 With regards to other than his 25 testimony that he worked with Bakelite - 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 his deposition. So I don't know what else he 3 worked with other than the reference to the arc 4 chute. 5 Q. If I understand it correctly too 6 is that it's your opinion that if it were a resin 7 that was used to create a laminate, that would be 8 a non-asbestos, non-mineral containing product, 9 correct? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Assume with me if you would that 12 Mr. Whitmire did work with a Bakelite product and 13 that it was an asbestos-containing product, do 14 you have an opinion that Mr. Whitmire could not 15 have been exposed to asbestos from working with 16 that product in the manner that he describes in 17 his deposition? 18 MS. CLARK: Objection. 19 Totally inadequate hypothetical. 20 Beyond the notice. 21 Calls for expert opinion. 22 Don't answer that. 23 (Direction not to answer the 24 question.) 25 MR. GALERSTON: What's the basis of 58 (Pages 226 to 229) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 230 Page 232 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 not answering the question if he has an opinion? 3 I asked him if he has an opinion. 4 MS. CLARK: He's not testifying as 5 to exposure as a corporate representative of Union 6 Carbide. That's not in the notice and we object 7 to that it is totally beyond that. You know that 8 calls for an expert opinion. 9 10 BY MR. GALERSTON: 11 Q. Sir, is it correct that you are 12 not able to testify one way or the other as to 13 whether or not Bakelite products that contain 14 asbestos could release asbestos in the field as 15 described in use by Mr. Whitmire? 16 MS. CLARK: Objection. 17 Beyond the scope. 18 Misstates the testimony. 19 Counsel, he's not here to discuss 20 exposure questions 21 THE WITNESS: Well, I22 MS. CLARK: Don't answer that. 23 (Direction not to answer the 24 question.) 25 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 whether or not it was necessary to modify those 3 components in the fields when they were put in 4 the application? 5 MS. CLARK: Objection. 6 Misstates testimony. 7 A. All I can say is I have not seen 8 it done and I would like to see one of the 9 molders take a position on that, the one who does 10 make the molded part as to whether they would 11 tolerate someone modifying the part that they 12 design for a particular application and warranty 13 its performance if it was. 14 Q. You would -- 15 A. I haven't seen it, but I'd like to 16 see that. 17 Q. Okay. 18 You've seen testimony from 19 electricians indicating that they have cut, 20 sanded and drilled in Bakelite components in the 21 field, have you not? 22 MS. CLARK: Objection. 23 A. There -- in the cases I saw that 24 it was always when they were describing a 25 laminate and they called it Bakelite. It was not Page 231 Page 233 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 BY MR. GALERSTON: 3 Q. Sir, do you have an opinion as to 4 whether or not Bakelite could be cut, sawed, 5 drilled or sanded in the field? 6 MS. CLARK: Objection. 7 Vague and ambiguous. 8 A. If it is a molded part it is not 9 common practice to sand, drill or machine the 10 part. It's already made so the dimensions that 11 are required by the applications and its 12 performance is based on not only the product it's 13 made from, but the design. So any modification 14 of that part interferes with its performance. So 15 molded parts are not sanded, drilled and 16 machined. 17 Q. Sir, have you ever seen any 18 instructions from any of the Bakelite customers 19 to the end users with regards to how to work with 20 the Bakelite components in their products? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Sir, would you agree with me that 23 because Union Carbide and you were not involved 24 in the manufacturing of the Bakelite components, 25 you don't really have firsthand knowledge of 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 a molded part. 3 Q. You've seen testimony of 4 electricians testifying that they cut, drilled 5 and sanded Bakelite, correct? 6 MS. CLARK: Objection. 7 Asked and answered. 8 A. Bakelite as - and the product 9 they described as Bakelite was a laminate. 10 Q. You have seen testimony of 11 electricians describing cleanup after a Bakelite 12 component has been destroyed by either fire, 13 excessive arcing and other wear and tear, have 14 you not, sir? 15 MS. CLARK: Objection. 16 Vague and ambiguous. 17 A. In the Eubanks case he claimed 18 that he was cleaning up dust as a result of wear 19 and tear on the arc chute, but -- and in that 20 particular case I took the position that that 21 wasn't even a phenolic material. And the 22 literature that I found showed that in most cases 23 it's a laminate that's used to make the arc chute 24 so, but that's the one case I can think of. 25 Others, most others when they 59 (Pages 230 to 233) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 234 Page 236 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 called it Bakelite it was a laminate and that is 3 very common practice to cut - it's like plywood 4 versus a finished wooden dining room table. 5 Plywood you can cut, you know, to size and put it 6 anyplace else. That's analogous to a laminate. 7 A molded piece is more analogous 8 to a finished table. You buy the table. You 9 don't cut it. You buy a table to the size you 10 need it. And that's the way I see just the 11 molded part. You've gone to the trouble of 12 designing it to a certain shape, size and 13 dimensions. Why should you have to modify it 14 further to put it in? You wasted that mold, that 15 expensive mold to make this part that you're 16 going to cut anyway. So make it the right time, 17 the correct dimensions in the first place so it 18 doesn't have to be cut and save on the labor. It 19 doesn't make sense to me and I'd like to see a 20 molder say the same thing. 21 Q. I object to the non-responsive 22 nature of the answer. 23 You would agree that if field 24 conditions change 25 A. If what? 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 he used, burned and I think what he meant is it 3 carbonized. Phenolics does not support 4 combustion, but it does carbonize under intense 5 heat and then it conducts electricity. And my 6 interpretation of what he said was that he was 7 talking about the insulation, the insulation 8 board. He didn't say that a molded part 9 carbonized and had to be replaced. At least I 10 didn't see it. 11 Q. Did you see where he said that 12 that would result in the creation of dust in the 13 boxes? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Do you know of any efforts ever 16 made by Union Carbide or anyone in industry to 17 determine whether or not the carbonization of an 18 asbestos-containing phenolic component would 19 allow release of asbestos fibers? 20 MS. CLARK: Objection. 21 Foundation. 22 Beyond the scope. 23 Calls for speculation. 24 A. No. The situation never came up. 25 Q. When you say the situation never Page 235 Page 237 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Q. If field conditions change or if 3 there is a change in the box or if there is a 4 change in the equipment that are being ran 5 through a box, it may be necessary to add or 6 remove components. 7 Does that seem unreasonable? 8 MS. CLARK: Objection. 9 Overly broad. 10 Vague. 11 A. No, that's not unreasonable. 12 Q. Have you ever studied the effect 13 of fire on the ability of a phenolic, 14 asbestos-containing phenolic material to release 15 asbestos? 16 MS. CLARK: Objection. 17 Beyond the scope. 18 A. No. 19 Q. Did you see the testimony of 20 Mr. Whitmire where he discusses how sometimes a 21 piece of a part would become fried I believe was 22 his word and it would have to be pulled and 23 replaced? 24 A. He said the insulation, phenolic 25 insulation or Bakelite insulation, whatever term 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 came up, it's a subject that was never considered 3 for study by Union Carbide? 4 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 5 A. It was not a situation that ever 6 required our attention. 7 Q. You're not aware of anyone in 8 industry such as Cutler-Hammer, Square D, 9 Allen-Bradley, Rostone or anyone else who 10 manufactured asbestos-containing phenolic 11 components studying whether or not a carbonized 12 phenolic part would release asbestos fiber, have 13 you? 14 A. No. 15 MS. CLARK: Objection. 16 Overly broad. 17 Calls for speculation. 18 A. No. 19 Q. Have you reviewed any other 20 opinions other than the one that you stated with 21 regards to Mr. Whitmire that it was unlikely that 22 he used an asbestos-containing phenolic when what 23 he described was a laminate, do you have any 24 other opinions with regards to Mr. Whitmire's 125 claims in this case? 60 (Pages 234 to 237) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 238 Page 240 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 A. No. Those are the main issues. 3 the main points I came away from. I don't recall 4 any -- there was, of course, an inconsistency at 5 the beginning in Volume 1. He said that he had 6 to cut, drill, sand the Bakelite in the Square D 7 box, and then in Volume 9 when I think the lawyer 8 from Square D questioned him, he was asked if he 9 had to cut, modify or drill any non-metallic part 10 in the Square D equipment and he said no. So 11 there's an inconsistency there that if that's 12 important, you know, needed to be clarified. I 13 didn't understand why the difference unless he 14 forgot. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. You know, that he took one 17 position one time and not another. 18 Q. Okay. 19 The Baker case, I'm not familiar 20 with the Baker case, but I understand that you 21 are prepared to testify with regards to 22 Mr. Baker's claims, is that correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. The information that we discussed 25 generally relating to Union Carbide's Bakelite, 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 exhibit so they're in that stack. 3 THE WITNESS: My notes? 4 MS. CLARK: Your notes, we marked 5 them as Exhibit 3. There you go. 6 THE WITNESS: Okay. 7 A. Until 1983, 1976 to 1983. We were 8 not - although it's not - we were making resin 9 at that time. We were not making any molding 10 materials. He said he could see asbestos fiber 11 in the components and that all Bakelite had 12 asbestos in it which is not correct. It would 13 come in sheets, cut off what was needed. 14 Exterior was smooth. Did not cut or drill into a 15 controller. 16 He also said he worked with 17 circuit boards which are laminates with the 18 circuitry on, printed on it. So to me that's 19 another laminate case with all that applies to 20 such cases. 21 22 BY MR. GALERSTON: 23 Q. Okay. 24 Do you have any other opinions, 25 observations of the Baker matter? Page 239 Page 241 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 manufacture, sell, distribution, used by 3 companies in general that we've talked about in 4 the Whitmire case, that would all be applicable 5 to Mr. Baker as well? 6 A. That was even more clear that he 7 was very specific if that he used sheet material 8 and he gave the dimensions I believe was eighteen 9 by twenty-four and he described the thickness and 10 he said it was light brown in color and he used 11 it, as I recall, as insulation board, electrical 12 insulation board. So the same thing would apply 13 with regard to we - our resin could have been 14 used as the, to make the laminate and it did not 15 contain asbestos. 16 Now, he also stated that he worked 17 with these sheet materials from '76 I believe 18 to - I'd have to check my notes as to the final. 19 Q. Sure. 20 Your notes are Exhibit 3 I 21 believe, correct? 22 MS. CLARK: I think they were 23 marked as an exhibit in that stack. 24 THE WITNESS: What was that? 25 MS. CLARK: They were marked as an 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 A. We didn't - he described the 3 laminate as light brown. We did not make a 4 phenolic molding material light brown and we were 5 not in the color business in 1968. So wasn't 6 even a remote chance that a molding material 7 would even be used there. 8 Q. Is it possible for a purchaser and 9 user of Union Carbide's asbestos-containing 10 Bakelite phenolics to alter or change it in the 11 molding process to affect its color? 12 MS. CLARK: Objection. 13 Vague. 14 Calls for speculation. 15 A. Black, that's hard to change. You 16 can make it dull so that it looks gray or you 17 bum the material. Well, even then it will turn 18 black. It's still black. 19 Brown, that's a pretty dark brown. 20 Most dark browns you'd hardly see the difference 21 if you heated it too much. 22 Some of the colors that we used to 23 make it's possible to take a red, change the 24 color of the red, but that was unlikely because 25 molders knew what ranges they could use to make 61 (Pages 238 to 241) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 242 Page 244 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 the part. 3 Q. You indicated that Union Carbide 4 got out of the coloration - if I understand you 5 correctly Union Carbide did offer customized 6 coloring of its phenolics up to 1968, is that 7 correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And when did that practice start? 10 MS. CLARK: Foundation. 11 A. We just shut it down. 12 Q. But when did it start? 13 A. Oh, when did it start? 14 MS. CLARK: Foundation. 15 A. I don't know how far back. 16 Q. As far as you can recall? 17 A. They were in the color business 18 when I started there in '48. 19 Q. Okay. 20 And that wasn't limited one way 21 the fact that it was colored something other than 22 black was not indicative of whether or not the 23 phenolic material would have been 24 asbestos-containing or not, is that correct? 25 A. That's correct. 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 BY MR. GALERSTON: 3 Q. Okay. 4 Sir, I've handed you what I've 5 marked as Exhibit Number 15. 6 A. (Reviews.) 7 Q. As you can see on the top this 8 purports to be Page 5144 from the Federal 9 Register, Volume 55, Number 30, dated Tuesday, 10 February 13th, 1990. 11 Do you see that, sir? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Okay. 14 I'd asked you earlier about 15 certain representations made by Union Carbide 16 with regards to its asbestos-containing products. 17 Do you recall that testimony, sir, 18 or my questioning I should say? 19 A. That was a document that you 20 showed me I believe. 21 Q. I believe when we're talking about 22 the crocidolite 23 A. Yes, yes. 24 Q. - and I'd asked you about that, 25 do you remember that testimony? Page 243 Page 245 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Q. Any other opinions in the Baker 3 matter? 4 A. No, that's about it. 5 Q. Okay, sir. 6 (Whereupon, multi page document 7 entitled Federal Register, Volume 55, Number 30, 8 Tuesday, February 13, 1990 slash Notices, not 9 bearing Bates stamps, is received and marked as 10 UCC Exhibit 15 for Identification.) 11 12 BY MR. GALERSTON: 13 Q. I'm going to mark and ask you to 14 follow up on something we talked about earlier, 15 the Federal Registry. I know we got a copy of 16 the Federal Register from 1990. 17 I'm going to hand you what's been 18 marked as Exhibit Number 15 to your deposition. 19 A. (Reviews.) 20 MR. GALERSTON: And I do have an 21 extra copy. 22 MS. CLARK: Thank you. 23 MR. GALERSTON: It's hard to find 24 the clip when it's sitting on your tie. 25 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And my questioning on that? 4 A. (Indicating.) 5 Q. And I indicated to you that there 6 was documentation that reflected that Union 7 Carbide did use crocidolite in some of its 8 products? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. You testified that based upon your 11 subsequent review you found that BMZ did not 12 contain crocidolite, correct? 13 A. BMZ-5250, yes. 14 Q. I have gotten a copy of this 15 portion of the Federal Register which I've now 16 marked as Exhibit Number 15. 17 You have not previously seen this 18 document, have you, sir? 19 A. Not in its entirety, no. 20 Q. Okay. 21 You believe that you have seen the 22 portion starting on 5157 related to Union Carbide 23 Corporation, would that be correct? 24 A. The content is very similar to 25 what I had seen before. I can't say whether it's 62 (Pages 242 to 245) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 246 Page 248 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 exactly what I was shown without taking this and 3 comparing it to the attachment to my original 4 deposition which I think I still have. 5 Q. All right. 6 Well, regardless, in 1990 what was 7 your position with Union Carbide? 8 A. I was in the polyethylene 9 business. I was I believe group manager of the 10 molding area for polyethylene. 11 Q. Okay. 12 In 1990 or shortly before that in 13 1989, were you consulted in any way, shape or 14 form with regards to this EPA filing that Union 15 Carbide is making with the EPA regarding its 16 asbestos-containing products that it had sold in 17 the past? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Okay. 20 Do you know who at Union Carbide 21 would have been responsible for preparing the 22 information that is contained on Pages 5157 and 23 5158 related to Union Carbide's 24 asbestos-containing products? 25 MS. CLARK: Foundation. 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 1988. 3 A. Uh-huh. 4 Q. It also explains how individuals 5 may obtain more or all of the information 6 submitted to EPA. 7 A. (Reviews.) 8 Q. Do you see that, sir? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Okay. 11 The document starts on Page 5144 12 and the first company listed is the Amtico A3 division of American Biltrite, Inc. 14 Do you see that, sir, Number 1? 15 A. 51? 16 Q. No, no, on the first page. 17 A. Oh, yeah. 18 Q. You see the first company as you 19 go down it has 1 background, Roman 2 summaries 20 and then it has Number 1? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. It says the Amtico division of 23 American Biltrite, Inc.? That's the first 24 company listed here, correct? Right there in the 25 middle of Column 2? Page 247 Page 249 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Calls for speculation. 3 A. I don't know who prepared it and I 4 don't recall seeing any correspondence with a 5 name on it. What I saw previously, I don't 6 remember seeing any correspondence with a name on 7 it. 8 Q. As I indicated Union Carbide 9 Exhibit 15 is a section of the Federal Register 10 which is titled asbestos publications of 11 identifying information, correct, sir? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. It states under the summary, it 14 says this notice provides summaries of the 15 information submitted to EPA by manufacturers? 16 MS. CLARK: Wait. He's on the 17 first page. 18 A. Oh, on the first page? Okay. 19 Yeah. Okay. 20 Q. Sir, you see it says under - on 21 the first page of Exhibit 15 under summary it 22 says this notice provides summaries of the 23 information submitted to EPA by manufacturers and 24 processors of certain asbestos products in 25 accordance with the Asbestos Information Act of 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Okay. 4 And then if we turn to Page 5157 5 which is where I tabbed we see Number 25 Union 6 Carbide Corporation, correct? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Okay. 9 If you would, sir, why don't you 10 take a moment and read the entirety of the 11 information under Union Carbide Corporation, 12 okay? 13 A. Okay. Okay. 14 Q. Sir, is it your recollection that 15 you had an opportunity to review this in its 16 entirety before today? 17 A. This sounds similar to what I saw 18 about six years ago. 19 Q. Okay. 20 Have you had an opportunity to 21 Strike that. 22 Having read through this I'm going 23 to ask you if you see any information that you 24 believe that is inaccurate or mistaken? 25 A. Well - 63 (Pages 246 to 249) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 250 Page 252 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 MS. CLARK: Objection. 3 Overly broad. 4 A. The reference to the African Blue 5 asbestos, and we mentioned this earlier, I assume 6 that this was correct, but then as I told you 7 when we looked at the sheet, formula sheets, the 8 one that we found, that did not designate African 9 Blue asbestos. So I've assumed that that is the 10 correct one because it's the formula sheet. I 11 have not yet found a formula sheet which shows 12 the African Blue. 13 Q. The formula sheet that you recall 14 reviewing, do you recall what the date was for 15 that? 16 A. Okay. 17 Q. Okay. 18 You see it says here in the middle 19 of Page 5158 the middle column, second paragraph, 20 it says high impact heat resistant. Then it says 21 only manufactured until the mid nineteen-sixties. 22 A. (Reviews.) 23 Q. Do you see that, sir? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. That's why I was asking you do you 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 asbestos content as being fifty percent of 3 BMMZ-50 - BMMZ-5250. 4 Do you recall what the asbestos 5 content was in the formulation that you saw? 6 A. No, no, I don't. 7 Q. At fifty percent that would put it 8 on the high end of the asbestos content for Union 9 Carbide's asbestos-containing Bakelite, correct? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Do you recall which customers were 12 purchasing Union Carbide's BMMZ-5250? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Okay. 15 It says here that this would be 16 for very high voltage industrial electrical 17 switch gear, correct? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Okay. 20 Who were Union Carbide's 21 asbestos-containing Bakelite customers who are 22 manufacturing very high voltage industrial 23 electrical switch gear? 24 MS. CLARK: Objection. 25 Vague. Page 251 Page 253 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 recall the formula sheet that you saw. 3 Did you find the formula sheet or 4 was it provided to you by counsel? 5 A. I asked for it. It was - I 6 obtained it from the files. 7 Q. So counsel for Union Carbide 8 provided you with a single formula sheet for 9 BMMZ-5250? 10 A. Yes. 11 MS. CLARK: Object. 12 Belated objection. 13 Misstates facts. 14 Q. You don't have any personal 15 knowledge as to whether or not a thorough 16 investigation of all of the Bakelite repository 17 was made to find any additional references to 18 BMMZ-5250, do you, sir? 19 MS. CLARK: Objection. 20 Argumentative. 21 A. I asked for all and got the one. 22 So I had no reason to believe that there were any 23 others. 24 Q. Okay. 25 You see the reference there to the 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 MR. KINSEY: This is Mr. Kinsey, 3 calls for speculation. 4 MS. CLARK: Vague and ambiguous. 5 Foundation. 6 A. This product was not made. 7 In the same equipment that the 8 molding equipment was made. It consisted of the 9 long fiber asbestos ballmilled with resin so that 10 in its final form it was more like a mat. So it 11 would not be normally used in the typical 12 automated molding machines. Whoever used it 13 would have to use a molding method where they 14 could load this material by hand into the molding 15 machine. 16 The reason I give you that 17 background is it does limit who would use it 18 because it is, you know, a more labor intensive 19 product to handle. 20 Who of our customers would do that 21 I don't know at this stage. 22 23 BY MR. GALERSTON: 24 Q. Okay. 25 A. So I can give you the name of the 64 (Pages 250 to 253) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 254 Page 256 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 customer. Whether they would bother to use it or 3 not I don't know and the customers are the ones 4 that you already, we already talked about. 5 Q. Okay. Sir. 6 My other question is, is slightly 7 different, is just with regard to Union Carbide's 8 asbestos-containing Bakelite customers which ones 9 were manufacturing very high voltage industrial 10 electrical switch gear? 11 MS. CLARK: Objection. 12 Overly broad. 13 Calls for speculation. 14 A. In the early sixties I don't 15 recall who they were. We would have to go to the 16 records to find out. 17 Q. Is it safe to say that it would be 18 Cutler-Hammer, Square D and Allen-Bradley? 19 A. I20 MS. CLARK: Objection. 21 Asked and answered. 22 Foundation. 23 MR. KINSEY: Join. 24 A. I don't know. I don't remember 25 when Square D became a very good customer of ours 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 MR. GALERSTON: I think it was I 3 joint, Howard Rome. 4 A. I would have to go to the records 5 to answer that question. 6 7 BY MR. GALERSTON: 8 Q. You've previously testified, have 9 you not, that the high temperature phenolic 10 resins were the ones that contained asbestos and 11 they were primarily marketed to Cutler-Hammer, 12 Square D and Allen-Bradley? 13 A. Yes. 14 MS. CLARK: Objection. 15 Misstates testimony. 16 MR. KINSEY: We join. 17 18 BY MR. GALERSTON: 19 Q. In looking at this is there any 20 other statements that you would disagree with 21 that are contained in the federal registry? 22 MS. CLARK: If you need more time 23 to read it to answer that, feel free. 24 A. No. 25 Q. Absolutely. Page 255 Page 257 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 or what our relationship was with the other two 3 or if we were selling to other customers who we 4 lost to our competitors. So we'd have to go 5 through the scrolls and the sheets and to get a 6 very definitive answer we would have to look at 7 who bought BMZ-5250 during that time period. 8 9 BY MR. GALERSTON: 10 Q. Sir, my question was not related 11 to BMMZ-5250. 12 My question, sir, was isn't it 13 true that Cutler-Hammer, Square D and 14 Allen-Bradley were high voltage industrial switch 15 gear manufacturers in the nineteen-sixties? 16 MS. CLARK: Objection. 17 Foundation. 18 Overly broad. 19 MR. KINSEY: Also calls for 20 speculation. 21 Assumes facts not in the evidence. 22 Vague and ambiguous. 23 MR. TUANN: I join, Howard Rome. 24 COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry, and 25 what? 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 A. I don't see anything else other 3 than what we mentioned before. These are not all 4 of asbestos-containing resins that we made. 5 Q. Right. Under the general purpose 6 section 7 A. No, the heat resistant Bakelite 8 list, we list a number here. There were others. 9 Q. Right. 10 And same under the general 11 purpose, is that an exhaustive list of the 12 asbestos-containing general purpose formulas? 13 MS. CLARK: Foundation. 14 A. The 5330 is not familiar to me. I 15 would have to look to see if that is correct or a 16 typo. Those, of the asbestos-containing 17 materials those were the largest volume products. 18 5498 might fall into that category during the 19 period of time where we did add four percent 20 asbestos to it, but that was for a limited time. 21 Q. Okay. 22 The last paragraph of this section 23 says any asbestos-containing general purpose 24 Bakelite or heat resistant Bakelite was fully 25 encapsulated by the resin in the Bakelite sold by 65 (Pages 254 to 257) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO -- Page 258 Page 260 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Union Carbide. 3 A. (Reviews.) 4 Q. Do you see that, sir? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. You oversaw research and 7 development in the fifties and sixties, correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. What studies did research and 10 development do to determine the percentage of 11 encapsulated asbestos fibers in the general 12 purpose or the high impact heat resistant 13 Bakelite? 14 MS. CLARK: Vague. 15 Overly broad. 16 Foundation. 17 A. That conclusion - I thought -- 18 I'll give you my opinion. Well, I don't know of 19 any test specifically directed at proving that 20 all of the particles were completely 21 encapsulated. The amount of compounding that the 22 material got on the rolls and the way that the 23 resin was melted, there are usually no, nobody 24 questioned whether that was not, and it didn't 25 become an issue. 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 understand it correctly it's that when Union 3 Carbide studied the fiber release from its 4 asbestos-containing phenolics by grinding an 5 asbestos-containing plaque, the results were that 6 the fiber release was below the OSHA limits. 7 correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. I take it that your recollection 10 is that there was some detectable fiber released, 11 but it was - it was detectable, but it was below 12 the limits? 13 MS. CLARK: Foundation. 14 Assumes facts. 15 A. My recollection was it was very 16 low. 17 Q. What is very low to the best of 18 your recollection? 19 A. Oh, well 20 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 21 A. Just detectable. 22 Q. Okay. 23 And just so I'm clear, this is a 24 study that you recall that you have requested 25 that counsel find for you, but to date you have Page 259 Page 261 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 Q. Are you familiar with fiber 3 bundles? 4 A. Fiber bundles? 5 Q. Yes. 6 A. Clumps? 7 Q. Asbestos fiber bundles? 8 A. Yeah. 9 Q. Have you ever seen those? 10 A. Only if the material as not 11 properly compounded or we saw that when we used 12 the Calidria pelleted asbestos, but the molded, 13 molded plaques were made during the manufacture 14 of all our materials and they were carefully 15 examined to determine whether the dispersion of 16 the fillers was adequate. 17 Q. When Mr. Neal did the study 18 regarding asbestos fiber release from the molded 19 plaque, in 1972, '73 time frame, you testified 20 before that the exposures were below the OSHA 21 limit, correct? 22 A. That was my recollection. I don't 23 know that Mr. Neal was involved. 24 Q. Okay. 25 Well take out Mr. Neal and if I 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 never seen the results of this testing, correct? 3 A. Yes. 4 MS. CLARK: Objection. 5 Misstates facts. 6 Argumentative. 7 Q. Sir, did I misstate the facts? 8 A. I've asked if anything was in the 9 files, yes. 10 Q. And you were not given anything? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Correct? 13 A. No, no. 14 Q. Okay. 15 And when you asked that, you asked 16 that of Union Carbide's counsel, correct? 17 A. Yes. 18 MS. CLARK: Objection. 19 Argumentative. 20 Q. And prior to 1972 you're not aware 21 of any other similar testing done on any 22 asbestos-containing phenolic product, correct? 23 A. No. 24 Q. And since Union Carbide was out of 25 that business by 1974, 1975,1 assume no 66 (Pages 258 to 261) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-65 6-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 262 Page 264 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 additional testing was done? 3 A. Not by Union Carbide. 4 MS. CLARK: I think if you're going 5 awhile longer we should take a break. 6 MR. GALERSTON: Well, I was going 7 to say, I was going to suggest 8 MS. CLARK: We've been going for a 9 long time. 10 MR. GALERSTON: Why don't we go 11 ahead and take a break. I'll review my notes and 12 we'll come back and see what I have for you. 13 Want to take ten? 14 MS. CLARK: Okay. 15 MR. GALERSTON: If you want to take 16 five, five is fine with me. 17 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 18 3:52. 19 This ends Tape 4 of the videotaped 20 deposition of Carlo Martino. 21 We are off the record. 22 (Whereupon, a short recess is 23 taken.) 24 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Standby, 25 please. 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 deposition of Carlo Martino consisting of five 3 videotapes. 4 We are off the record. 5 (Whereupon, a short recess is 6 taken.) 7 MR. GALERSTON: Let's go on the 8 record. 9 This is counsel for the Plaintiffs. 10 I propose that we agree to stipulate that the 11 court reporter is relieved of any statutory duty 12 to maintain the original of this deposition. 13 Is that agreeable with you? 14 MS. CLARK: Yes. I think - isn't 15 the way it usually works, I'm not from California 16 either, you send the copy to me and if we don't 17 return it within a certain amount of time then 18 it's -- isn't it something like that? I mean we 19 still get the chance to review it is all I'm 20 saying. 21 MR. GALERSTON: No, no, I agree 22 with that. I don't believe that - this has 23 nothing to do with our use of the transcript. I 24 think this says that the court reporter doesn't 25 have to maintain original for the future, that the Page 263 Page 265 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 The time is 4:02. 3 This begins Tape 5 of the 4 videotaped deposition of Carlo Martino. 5 We are on the record. 6 MR. GALERSTON: All right. 7 Mr. Martino, I believe that I've 8 asked all the questions that I have at this time. 9 And at this point I'll pass the 10 witness. 11 Thank you, sir. 12 THE WITNESS: Oh, thank you. 13 MS. CLARK: Does anyone on the 14 phone have any questions? 15 (No response.) 16 MR. GALERSTON: Okay. 17 MS. CLARK: Okay. 18 I have no questions. 19 Thank you very much, Mr. Martino. 20 MR. GALERSTON: We're done. 21 THE WITNESS: Okay. 22 MR. GALERSTON: Thank you. 23 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 24 4:03. 25 This concludes the videotaped 1 CARLO F. MARTINO 2 original will be sent to me, a copy to you for 3 reading and reviewing and changes. 4 MS. CLARK: Okay. 5 MR. GALERSTON: And I will now take 6 possession of the original. 7 MS. CLARK: That's fine. 8 MR. GALERSTON: Anybody have an 9 objection on the phone? 10 (No response.) 11 MR. GALERSTON: Hearing none, all 12 done. 13 Thank you, sir. 14 All right. 15 Now we're off. 16 (Time noted: 4:06 p.m.) 17 18 / 19 / 20 21 22 23 24 Lii 67 (Pages 262 to 265) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 266 Page 268 1 2 STATE OF J Pg. of Pgs. 3 ) ss.: 4 COUNTY OF________ --- ) 5 I wish to make the following changes, for 6 the following reasons: 7 PAGE LINE 8 CHANGE: 9 REASON: 10 CHANGE: 11 REASON: 12 CHANGE: 13 REASON: 14 CHANGE: 15 REASON: 16 CHANGE: 17 REASON: 18 CHANGE: 19 REASON: 20 CHANGE: 21 REASON: 22 CHANGE: 23 REASON: 24 CHANGE: 25 REASON: 1 2 above. 3 4 5 CARLO F. MARTINO 6 STATE OF__ 7 COUNTY OF J 8 9 10 Before me,. , on 11 this day personally appearing CARLO F. MARTINO, 12 known to me to be the person whose name is 13 subscribed to the foregoing instrument and 14 acknowledged to me that they executed the same for 15 the purposes and consideration therein expressed. 16 Given under my hand and seal of office 17 this __ day of2008. 18 19 20 Subscribed and sworn to before me 21 thisday of2008. 22 23 24 25 Page 267 Page 269 1 2 PAGE LINE 3 CHANGE: 4 REASON: 5 CHANGE: 6 REASON: 7 CHANGE: 8 REASON: 9 CHANGE:. 10 REASON: 11 CHANGE: 12 REASON: 13 CHANGE: 14 REASON: 15 CHANGE: 16 REASON: 17 CHANGE: 18 REASON: 19 CHANGE: 20 REASON: 21 22 23 I, CARLO F. MARTINO, have read the 24 foregoing deposition and hereby affix my signature 25 that same is true and correct, except as noted______ 1 2 CERTIFICATE 3 STATE OF) ) :ss. 4 COUNTY OF J 5 I, RICH GERMOSEN, a Certified Court 6 Reporter, (License No. XI01847), Certified Realtime 7 Court Reporter-NJ, (License No. XR00168), NCRA 8 Registered Professional Reporter, NCRA Certified 9 Realtime Reporter, Certified LiveNote Reporter, and 10 Notary Public within and for the States of New York 11 and New Jersey, do hereby certify: 12 That CARLO F. MARTINO, the witness 13 whose deposition is hereinbefore set forth, having 14 been duly sworn by a Notary Public of the States of 15 New York and New Jersey, and that such deposition is 16 a hue record of the testimony of said witness. 17 I further certify that I am not related 18 to any of the parties to this action by blood or 19 marriage, and that I am in no way interested in the 20 outcome of this matter. 21 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set 22 my hand this day of2008. 23 24 RICH GERMOSEN, CCR, CRCR, RPR, CRR. CLR 25 LICENSE NO. XI01847 LICENSE NO. XR00168 68 (Pages 266 to 269) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 270 Page 272 1 2 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 3 FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES 4 CAUSE NO. BC 374718 5 -------------------------------------------- x 6 JIMMIE WHITMIRE and 7 BARBARA WHITMIRE, 8 Plaintiffs, 9 -against10 ALFA LAVAL, INC., et al,, 11 Defendants. 12 x 13 14 15 16 17 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION 18 DEPOSITION OF: CARLO F. MARTINO 19 Friday, February 8, 2008 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 Ms. Katherine M. Clark - (00:00:00) 3 Mr. Kelvin T. Wyles - (00:00:00) 4 Ms. Holly L. Kershell - (00:00:00) 5 Ms. Kristina F. Almquist - (00:00:00) 6 Mr. Jean Christian Michel - (00:00:00) 7 Mr. Jeffrey N. Kinsey - (00:00:00) 8 Mr. Kenneth J. McCarthy - (00:00:00) 9 Mr. Peter Tuann - (00:00:00) 10 Mr. Barry N. Endick - (00:00:00) 11 Ms. Constance S. Nelson - (00:00:00) 12 13 That pursuant to information given to 14 the deposition officer at the time said testimony 15 was taken, the following includes counsel for all 16 parties of record: 17 18 WATERS & KRAUS, L.L.P. 19 BY: WILLIAM A. GALERSTON, ESQ. 20 3219 McKinney Avenue 21 Dallas, Texas 75204 22 (214) 357.6244 / (214) 357.7252 (FAX) 23 bgalerston@waterskraus.com 24 Attorneys for the Plaintiffs 25 I f | | I J I | | j f j j 1 1 J j | ( f 1 Page 271 Page 273 11 2 2 APPEARANCES: (CONT'D.) 33 4 4 MAYER BROWN, L.L.P. 5 5 BY: KATHERINE M. CLARK, ESQ. 6 6 71 South Wacker Drive 7 I, RICH GERMOSEN, a Certified Court 7 Chicago, Illinois 60606 8 Reporter, (License No. XI01847), Certified Realtime 8 (312) 701.7790/(312) 706.8609 (FAX) 9 Court Reporter-NJ, (License No. XR00168), NCRA 9 kclark@mayerbrown.com 10 Registered Professional Reporter, NCRA Certified 10 Attorneys for Union Carbide Corporation and 11 Realtime Reporter, Certified LiveNote Reporter, and 11 Carlo F. Martino 12 Notary Public within and for the States of New York 12 13 and New Jersey, do hereby certify: 13 McKENNA LONG & ALDRIDGE, L.L.P. 14 That the witness, CARLO F. MARTINO, was 14 BY: KELVIN T. WYLES, ESQ., 15 duly sworn by the officer and that the transcript of 15 (appearing via speakerphone) 16 the oral deposition is a true record of the 16 444 South Flower Street 17 testimony given by the witness; 17 Suite 800 18 That the deposition transcript was 18 Los Angeles, California 90071-2901 19 submitted onto the witness or 19 (213) 688.1000/(213) 243.6330 (FAX) 20 to the attorney for the witness for examination, 20 kwyles@mckennalong.com 21 signature and return to me by 21 Attorneys for FMC Corporation and 22 23 That the amount of time used by each 24 party at the deposition is as follows: 22 Union Carbide Corporation I 23 I 24 25 Mr. William A. Galerston - (04:44:20) 25 , j ? 69 (Pages 270 to 273) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f CARLO MARTINO Page 274 Page 276 1 2 APPEARANCES: (CONT'D.) "3 4 GORDON & REES, L.L.P. 5 BY: HOLLY L. KERSHELL, ESQ., 6 (appearing via speakerphone) 7 275 Battery Street 8 Suite 2000 9 San Francisco, California 94111 10 (415) 986.5900/(415) 986.8054 (FAX) 11 hkershell@gordonrees.com 12 Attorneys for 3M Company 13 14 JACKSON & WALLACE, L.L.P. 15 BY: KRISTINA F. ALMQUIST, ESQ., 16 (appearing via speakerphone) 17 55 Francisco Street 18 6th Floor 19 San Francisco, California 94133 2 0 (415) 402.3318/ (415) 982.6300 (FAX) 21 kalmquist@jacksonwallace.com 2 2 Attorneys for BW/IP, Inc. 23 24 25 1 2 APPEARANCES: (CONT'D.) 4 KNOX RICKSEN, L.L.P. 5 BY: KENNETH J. MCCARTHY, ESQ., 6 (appearing via speakerphone) 7 1300 Clay Street 8 Suite 500 9 Oakland, California 94612-1427 10 (510) 285.2500/(510) 285.2505 (FAX) 11 kjm@knoxricksen.com 12 Attorneys for Leslie Controls, Inc. 13 14 HOWARD ROME MARTIN & RIDLEY, L.L.P. 15 BY: PETER TUANN, ESQ., 16 (appearing via speakerphone) 17 1775 Woodside Road 18 Suite 200 19 Redwood City, California 94061-3436 2 0 (650) 365.7715 / (650) 364.5297 (FAX) 21 ptuann@hrmrlaw.com 2 2 Attorneys for IMO Industries, Inc., Eaton Corp. 2 3 and Cutler-Hammer, Inc. 24 25 Page 275 Page 277 1 2 APPEARANCES: (CONTD.) "5 4 THOMAS WHITELAW & TYLER, L.L.P. 5 BY: JEAN CHRISTIAN MICHEL, ESQ., 6 (appearing via speakerphone) 7 18101 Von Karman Avenue 8 Suite 230 9 Irvine, California 92612 10 (949) 679.6400 / (949) 679.6405 (FAX) 11 jmichel@twtlaw.com 12 Attorneys for Rockwell Automation, Inc. 13 14 K&L GATES 15 BY: JEFFREY N. KINSEY, ESQ., 16 (appearing via speakerphone) 17 Henry W. Oliver Building 18 535 Smithfield Street 19 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15222 2 0 (412) 355.8231 / (412) 355.6501 (FAX) 21 jeffrey.kinsey@klgates.com 2 2 Attorneys for Square D Company and Crane Co. 23 24 25 1 2 APPEARANCES: (CONT'D.) "3 4 4 HASSARD BONNINGTON, L.L.P. 5 BY: BARRY N. ENDICK, ESQ., 6 (appearing via speakerphone) 7 Two Embarcadero Center 8 Suite 1800 9 San Francisco, California 94111 10 (415)288.9800/(415)288.9801 (FAX) 11 bne@hassard.com 12 Attorneys for Bechtel Corporation and 13 Bechtel Construction Company 14 15 STEVENS, DRUMMOND & GIFFORD 16 BY: CONSTANCE S. NELSON, ESQ., 17 (appearing via speakerphone) 18 1910 Olympic Boulevard 19 Suite 250 2 0 Walnut Creek, California 94596 21 (925) 944.5550 / (925) 256-9669 (FAX) 22 davidgifford@sdglaw.com 2 3 Attorneys for Crouse-Hinds 24 25 70 (Pages 274 to 277) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-888-656-DEPO 6d2eacd8-3d5d-45a0-b6ff-80715d643d0f