Document KRVy6Zp0BpBM5zQR3arKj94D2

THOMAS DICKSON Page 1 1 NO. 35116-02-03 2 CHRISTOPHER STOECKLER and ) IN THE DISTRICT COURT WENDY STOECKLER, ) ' Plaintiffs, ) VS. ) ) 159th JUDICIAL DISTRICT ) AMERICAN OIL COMPANY, ) (sued individually and as ) successor-in-interest to ) AMOCO OIL COMPANY and ) AMOCO, INC.), et al. ) Defendants ) ANGELINA COUNTY, TEXAS 8) 9 *************************************** 10 TELEPHONIC ORAL DEPOSITION OF 11 THOMAS G. DICKSON 12 OCTOBER 22, 2003 13 ORIGINAL 14 *************************************** 15 TELEPHONIC ORAL DEPOSITION OF THOMAS G. DICKSON, 16 produced as a witness at the instance of the 17 Plaintiffs, and duly sworn, was taken in the 18 above-styled and numbered cause on the 22nd of 19 October, 2003, from 11:57 a.m. to 1:52 p.m., before 20 Rebecca L. Stonerock, RPR, reported by machine 21 shorthand, at 900 Adams Street, Toledo, Ohio, pursuant 22 to the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure and the 23 provisions stated on the record or attached hereto. 24 25 DANA-0341.970 Henjum Goucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO tHOMAS DICKSON 1 APPEARANCES 2 FOR THE PLAINTIFFS MR. JOHN SMITH-GEORGE (By phote) 3 LAW OFFICES OF JOHN SMITH-GEORGE 10231 Warwick Boulevard . 4 Newport News, Virginia 23601 Phone: 757-223-1275 5 FOR DEFENDANT DANA CORPORATION AND THE WITNESS 6 MR. R. THOMAS RADCUFFE, JR DeHAY & ELUSTON 7 36 South Charlts Sired, Suite 1300 ' Baltimore, Maryland 21201 8 Phare: 410-783-7225 and 9 MS. JANET E HALES COOPER &WAUNSKI 10 900 Adana Street Toledo, Ohio 43624 . 11 Phone 419-241-1200 12 FOR DEFENDANT INTERNATIONAL TRUCK & ENGINE MS. DONEAN SURRATT (By phone) 13 ORGAIN, BELL & TUCKER 470 Orleans Street . 14 Beaumont, Texas 77704-1751 Phone 409-838-6412 15 FOR DEFENDANT FORD MOTOR COMPANY 16 MR. ARTHUR GRIMALDOD (By phone) BROWN McCARROLL 17 2001 Ross Avenue, Suite 2000 Dallas, Teas 75201 18 Phone 214-999-6100 19 FOR DEFENDANT MOBIL CORPORATION MR EDWARD A KALABUS (By phone) 20 DeHAY & ELUSTON 901 Mam Street, Suite 3500 21 Dallas, Texas 75202 Phone 214-210-2400 22 FOR DEFENDANT DAIMLERCHRYSLER 23 MR CARLOS MORALES (By phone) HAWKINS. PARNELL & THACKSTON 24 4515 Cole Avenue, Suite 550 Dallas, Texas 75205 25 Phone 214-780-5100 ' 1 FOR DEFENDANTS HONEYWELL INTERNATIONAL, INC. and GENERAL MOTORS CORPORATION 2 MS. AMY C. BRIMMAGE (By phone) THOMPSON & KNIGHT 3 1700 Pacific Avenue, Suite 3300 Dallas, Texas 75201 4 Phone: 214-969-1700 5 FOR DEFENDANT HENNESSEY INDUSTRIES MR. DAVID TOUN (By phone) 6 GERMER GERTZ 550 Fannin 7 Beaumont, Texas 77701 Phone: 409-654-6700 8 FOR DEFENDANT GUARD-LINE 9 MS. KATHY PARKER (By phone) DOGAN & WILKINSON 10 734 Delmas Avenue Pascagoula, Mississippi 39567 11 Phone: 228-762-2272 12 FOR DEFENDANT PACCAR MR. JASON M. KATZ (By phone) 13 WHITTENBURG, WHTTTENBURG, SCHACTER & HARRIS 600 North Pearl Street 14 Dallas, Texas 75201 Phone: 214-999-5700 15 FOR DEFENDANT BORG WARNER 16 MS. CATHY HENDRICKSON (By phone) FLANARY CARTER SCHUBERT ] 7 900 Jackson Street, Suite 600 Dallas, Texas 75202 18 Phone: 214-397-0333 19 ALSO PRESENT: MR. THOMAS G. DICKSON, 20 The Witness; and 21 MS. REBECCA L STONEROCK, The Court Reporter. 22 23 24 25 Page 2 Page 4 } 1 INDEX PAGE 2 Appearances................................................. 2-3 3 WITNESS: THOMAS G. DICKSON 4 Direct Examination by Mr. Smith-George....... 6 5 Cross-Examination by Mr. Grimaldo.............. 61 6 Cross-Examination by Mr. Katz..................... 64 7 Cross-Examination by Ms. Hendrickson.......... 65 8 Cross-Examination by Mr. Radcliffe............. 68 9 Redirect Examination by Mr. Smith-George... 71 10 Recross-Examinationby Mr. Katz................. 81 11 Reporter's Certificate................................ 85 I : j 1 I 1 ! j j 1 12 13 EXHIBITS 14 EXHIBIT PAGE MARKED 15 1 -- 6-30-83 Letter, Dickson to Duhl, 16 Bates SC-01-0000034.............................. 17 2--4-28-86 Letter, Miller to Ruhl, 42 18 Bates SC-02-0000661.............................. 44 19 3 -- Spicer Press Release, "Non-Asbestos 20 Facing Introduced by Spicer Clutch 21 Division" Bates SC-02-0000363/64.......... 45 22 4 -- 11-4-83 Intra-Company Comm., Dickson to 23 Fortenberry, Bates SC-01-0000359.......... 45 1 j 1 | | j | 24 5 -- 7-6-83 Letter, Rathbum to Boyle, Bates 25 SC-02-0000365........................................ 46 Page 3 Page 5 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 THOMAS G. DICKSON .3 4 Having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 5 EXAMINATION OF THOMAS G. DICKSON 6 BY MR. SMITH-GEORGE: 7 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Dickson. 8 A. Good afternoon. 9 Q. It may be "good morning" where you are. 10 Could you identify yourself for the record, please? 11 A. Thomas G. Dickson, D-I-C-K-S-O-N. 12 Q. And are you currently employed? 13 A. No, I'm retired. 14 Q. Okay. When did you retire? i 15 A. About three years ago. 1 16 Q. And where did you retire from? 17 A. I retired from Dana Corporation out of 18 Toledo. 19 Q. At the time you retired, what was your job 20 category? 21 A. I was a project engineer assigned to the 22 transmission division. 23 Q. And how long had you worked for Dana? 24 A. About 36 years, 37 years. 25 Q. Were you always employed by Dana Corporation ] Henjum Goucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO 2 (Pages 2 to 5) `THOMAS DrCKSON Page 6 8Page | 1 during that 36 years? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And you understand that you're appearing 4 today pursuant to a request for the most knowledgeable 5 person at Dana Corporation regarding friction 6 products? 7 MR. RADCLIFFE: Well, this is Tom 8 Radcliffe, and Fm not sure that that's accurate 9 . because the deposition notice that we have simply 10 states "Tom Dickson." It doesn't give us any 11 categories. We were never served with a deposition 12 notice under Texas Rules that required us to come 13 forward with a corporate spokesperson, a corporate 14 representative. 15 We are producing Mr. Dickson to testify 16 about his work experience and knowledge about the 17 clutches that Dana manufactured and sold, but we 18 don't -- this has not been noticed as a corporate rep 19 deposition. 20 MR. SMTTH-GEORGE: I appreciate that 21 Q. I don't have a CV for you, so I'd like to 22 kind of walk through your background. Can you tell me 23 first how far did you go in school? 24 A. I graduated with a BS in engineering, and 25 then during my work experience with Dana I received a 1 A. It ranged from project engineering to process 2 engineering. Had to do with time study. Almost all 3 of the aspects of the engineering portion of the 4 manufacturing area. 5 Q. At the point in time where you began with 6 Dana in 1964, were they manufacturing any 7 asbestos-containing friction products? 8 A. Not to my knowledge. I don't recall Dana 9 manufacturing any asbestos-containing friction product 10 material. 11 Q. Did they manufacture any during the 36 years 12 that you worked there -- or 30 years? 13 A. Not to my knowledge. 14 Q. Are you familiar with their acquisition of 15 Victor gaskets? 16 A. Only at arm's length. I knew they did it. 17 Q. Do you know when that occurred? 18 A. I can't recall exactly. 19 Q. Can you give me a decade? 20 A. I would guess it was in the 80's -- 21 MR. RADCLIFFE: Don't guess. 22 THE WITNESS: All right. I23 MR. RADCLIFFE: If you know, say so. But 24 if you don't know -- 25 A. I really don't know for sure. j j j j 1 | j I j | 1 ! j f f 1 j j j j | 1 Page 7 1Page 9 1 master's out of Bowling Green. 2 Q. And where was your BA received from? 3 A. It was a BS out of Ohio University. 4 Q. Okay. When did you -- when did you get that 5 degree? 6 A. Sixty-four. ' 7 Q. And after you got your degree, where were you 8 employed? 9 A. Dana Corporation, transmission division. 10 Q. And in the transmission division -- was that 11 in 1964? 12 A. Yes, it was. 13 Q. In that division, what was yourjob duties? 14 A. I was a hired -- hired initially as an 15 engineer in training for approximately a two-year 16 program they had. 17 Q. And where did you go after that? 18 A. I worked in the transmission divisional 19 offices as a draftsman for a short period of time, and 20 then went to the standard parts division in the 21 service parts area. 22 Q. And when did that occur? 23 A. Approximately'67. 24 Q. What was -- when you were an engineer in 25 training, what type of training did you receive? 1 Q. Now, did -- at any point in time during your 2 career at Dana, did they manufacture transmissions? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And when did that begin? 5 A. When I started in 1964, they were in the 6 process of manufacturing transmissions. And I 7 basically left Dana when the transmission division was 8 sold to an affiliate in Mexico. 9 Q. And that was in what year? 10 A. It was about three years ago. So it was 11 about '99,2000. Someplace in there. 12 Q. Were they manufacturing both manual and 13 automatic transmissions? 14 A. To the best of my knowledge, they only 15 manufactured manual transmissions. 16 Q. What type of cars -- in what makes or model 17 cars could the transmissions manufactured by Dana be 18 installed? 19 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. Go 20 ahead. .' 21 A. They did not manufacture transmissions for 22 cars that I knew of. 23 Q. What did they -- what type of motorized 24 equipment was the transmission manufactured for? 25 A. Transmission manufacturing was for trucks. J 1 I j | | f j 1 j j j j j j j 1 1 j ] Henjum Goucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO 3 (Pages 6 to 9) Thomas dickson Page 10 Page 12 | 1 Q. What type of trucks? 2 A. Medium and heavy-duty. The smallest 3 transmission I recall them manufacturing was for the 4 deuce-and-a-halfsize military vehicle. 5 Q. And the largest? 6 A. The largest would go in the 18-wheelers. 7 Q. Would Dana sell these transmissions to 8 entities that would incorporate them into vehicles 9 that were sold in the commercial market? 10 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to form. Go ahead. 11 A. Could you repeat that question? 12 Q. Were these transmissions sold directly to the 13 manufacturers of the trucks? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And whom did they sell their transmissions 16 to? 17 A. I could not give you all of the 18 manufacturers, but the major ones would be Mack 19 Truck -- or -- yeah, Mack Truck, Ford, Peteibilt, 20 Kenworth, Freightliner, International Harvester or 21 Navistar, White Motor, GM. I think that's it. 22 Q. Do you know if they were the exclusive 23 supplier of transmissions for those entities? 24 A. No, they were not. 25 MR. RADCLIFFE: When you say -- when you 1 Q. And what type of material were the gaskets 2 made out of? 3 A. I don't know. 4 Q. Do you have any knowledge of Dana 5 Corporation, during the time that you worked for them, 6 selling asbestos-containing gaskets? 7 A. Not to my knowledge. 8 Q. Did any of your job duties during the course 9 of your employment at Dana Corporation involve 10 asbestos-containing gaskets? 11 A. Not to my knowledge. 12 Q. Do you have any knowledge of what parts Dana 13 manufactured under the Victor trade name? 14 A. I know they manufactured gaskets, but that's 15 about the extent of it. 16 Q. And are you aware that they manufactured 17 manifold gaskets and head gaskets? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And were you aware that those gaskets were 20 made with a blend of elastomers and long asbestos 21 fibers -22 MR RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 23 Q. -- combined in a patented process to make a 24 gasket that gives you total sealing under the toughest 25 racing conditions? j | j j ] j I 1 j | j j | | 1 | Page 11 Page 13 j 1 say "they," you are talking -- Mr. Smith-George, you 2 are talking Dana, right? 3. MR. SMITH-GEORGE: Correct. 4 MR. RADCLIFFE: Okay. 5 Q. When the transmissions -- the manual 6 transmissions were manufactured, did they incorporate 7 asbestos-containing clutch discs? 8 MR RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 9 DEFENSE COUNSEL: Object to form. 10 MR RADCLIFFE: Go ahead. 11 A. They did not contain clutch discs that I knew 12 of. 13 Q. Did any of the parts of the transmission 14 contain asbestos that were manufactured by Dana? 15 A. Not to my knowledge. 16 MR RADCLIFFE: I don't want you to be 17 confused here, Mr. Smith-George. Do you understand 18 that a clutch is a completely different piece of 19 equipment than a transmission? 20 MR SMITH-GEORGE: I do and I don't. 21 MR RADCLIFFE: Okay. 22 MR SMI TH-GEORGE: Why don't -- I see what 23 you're saying. 24 Q. Did the transmission have any gaskets? 25 A. Yes. 1 MR RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 2 A. No. 3 Q. Are you aware of whether Dana Corporation or 4 any of the entities under their control ever 5 manufactured brakes? 6 A. No, not to my knowledge. 7 Q. Are you aware of whether Dana Corporation or 8 any of the entities under their control sold brakes? 9 MR RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. Go 10 ahead. 11 A. I believe they sold some attached to axle 12 products. 13 Q. Okay. And did they manufacture the axle 14 products, "they" meaning Dana? 15 A. They manufactured the -- the axle components, 16 but the brake components were purchased and attached. 17 Q. And do you know whom the brake components 18 were purchased from? 19 A. No, I don't. 20 Q. Do you know anybody in the corporation who 21 would have that knowledge? 22 A. No, I don't. 23 Q. Do you know how long Dana Corporation 24 manufactured axle components? 25 A. No, I couldn't give you the exact time frame. j 1 j j j j Henjum Goucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO 4 (Pages 10 to 13) THOMAS DICKSON Page 14 Page 16 . 1 Q. Do you know under what trade name those axle 2 components were manufactured under? . 3 A. The axle assemblies were sold under Spicer 4 Axle or Spicer Heavy-Duty Axle. 5 Q. And what type of vehicles were those axle 6 components incorporated into? 7 A. The axle components ranged from light truck 8 up through heavy truck. 9 Q. Would it be the same type of vehicles that 10 the transmissions were manufactured for? 11 A. They went into a smaller vehicle than some of 12 the transmissions would go into. 13 Q. What -- were these axle components sold 14 directly from Dana to the manufacturers of the 15 vehicles? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And can you tell me what entities purchased 18 those axle components? 19 A. Again, I can't name all of them. I would say 20 Ford and GM, Chrysler were the major supply -21 customers. 22 Q. How about the truck manufacturers that you 23 mentioned earlier. International Harvester, Mack and 24 the like? 25 A. Most of the same ones, yes. I don't believe 1 A. What is "this product"? 2 Q. The axle components we've been talking about. 3 A. Dana's manufactured axles at least since 4 World War I, and I'm not sure if it was before that or 5 not. 6 Q. Are they currently manufacturing them today? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And am I correct that you don't have ainy 9 personal knowledge of the composition of the friction 10 materials that are attached to the brake assemblies in 11 those cases where brake assemblies were incorporated 12 into the axles that were sold by Dana? 13 A. I do not have any knowledge of the 14 composition of the brake assemblies attached to the 15 axle. 16 Q. Do you -- when did -- if you know, when did 17 Dana acquire Spicer? 18 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 19 Spicer -- Spicer what? 20 MR. SMITH-GEORGE: Spicer division. 21 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 22 Q. Let me strike that and ask you a different 23 question. 24 A. Good. 25 Q. Was the Spicer division of Dana a separate ] j | j 1 j | j | . Page 15 Page 17 1 they sold to the West Coast, the Freightliner/ 2 Kenworth/Peterbilt group, but they sold some to 3 Navistar, Mack, Ford. 4 Q. Is there anybody in the corporation who has 5 more knowledge about the sale of the axle components 6 than you? # 7 A. I'm sure there is. However, I don't have a 8 name. 9 Q. When -- did Dana Corp. assemble the axle 10 components into a completed product? 11 A. "Completed" you mean an axle or "completed" 12 you mean a vehicle? 13 Q. I mean an axle. 14 A. Yes, they sold completed axles. 15 Q. And they included brake assemblies? 16 A. In some cases, I believe. 17 Q. Which cases would it include brake assemblies 18 and which cases would it not? 19 A. I'm not knowledgeable of that. It depended 20 on how the customer would specify the purchase. 21 Q. Were these -- what type of brakes were 22 attached to these axle components, disc or drum? 23 A. Again, I'm not knowledgeable of that 24 Q. Do you know how long Dana manufactured this 25 product, when it began and when it ended? 1 entity that was -- was ultimately acquired by Dana, or 2 was it an entity created by Dana? 3 A. Spicer was an engineer that developed a 4 universal joint about 1903. Dana was a financial 5 person that bought him out. From there they built 6 Dana Corporation, which consisted of a number of 7 divisions. Four of them sold under the Spicer 8 trademark: Axle, clutch, transmission and universal 9 joint. 10 Q. When did the Spicer division begin selling 11 clutches? 12 A. In the late 40's. 13 Q. And do they continue to do that today? 14 A. Yes --well, no. They were sold to Eaton. 15 Clutch division was sold to Eaton Corporation. 16 Q. And when was that? 17 A. I can't give you an exact time. It was in 18 the late 90's. 19 Q. Was Eaton one of the entities, if you know, 20 that sold brake assemblies to Dana for incorporation 21 into their axle components? 22 A. I don't know what Eaton sold to Dana or what 23 Dana sold to Eaton. 24 Q. During the manufacture -- what type of 25 clutches did Dana manufacture? ] Henjum Goucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO 5 (Pages 14 to 17) THOMAS DICKSON Page 18 Page 20 j 1 A. Various clutches, primarily for the heavy 2 truck market. 3 Q. And were these clutches that were 4 incorporated into manual transmissions? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Did Dana ever manufacture clutches that were 7 incorporated into automatic transmissions? 8 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. Go 9 ahead. 10 A. No. In the late 90's there were some people 11 that were automating a manual transmission and clutch 12 with electronics and hydraulics, but it was not an 13 automatic transmission as an Allison or a passenger 14 car automatic transmission. 15 Q. Did the clutches that were manufactured by 16 Dana for the use with manual transmissions contain an 17 asbestos disc with a flywheel? 18 DEFENSE COUNSEL: Object to form. 19 MR. RADCLIFFE: I'm sorry, we had a siren 20 interfere with that question. Would you mind 21 repeating it, please? 22 MR. SMITH-GEORGE: Sure. 23 Q. Did the clutches that Dana manufactured for 24 manual transmissions contain an asbestos disc for the 25 flywheel? 1 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 2 A. The asbestos material was liked in some cases 3 by the customer because of its engagement 4 characteristics. When the driver engaged the clutch, 5 it was somewhat smoother than the ceramic material at 6 that time. 7 Q. Do you know who supplied the 8 asbestos-containing clutch facing? 9 A. H.K. Porter and Raybestos were our two main 10 sources. 11 Q. How long did Dana manufacture clutches for 12 manual transmissions that contained an 13 asbestos-containing flywheel? 14 MR RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 15 A. Asbestos-containing material was in some of 16 the clutches when the -- when Dana Corporation 17 purchased the clutch division, and it was eliminated 18 from clutches in 1984. 19 Q. Do you know why they made the decision to no 20 longer use clutch facings that contained asbestos in 21 1984? 22 A. There were a number of reasons, but the 23 engagement characteristics of the ceramic material had 24 been improved drastically, the engine characteristics 25 developing higher torques had required a higher j . Page 19 Page 21 1 DEFENSE COUNSEL: Objection, form. 2 MR. RADCLIFFE: Objection, form. Go 3 ahead. 4 A. Spicer manufactured clutches that contained a 5 nonasbestos material and an asbestos material 6 depending on which assembly you purchased. 7 Q. How -- when did they first begin 8 manufacturing a clutch with a nonasbestos-containing 9 disc for the flywheel? 10 A. I believe they were manufacturing that when 11 Dana purchased the clutch division. 12 Q. In the 19 -- when? 13 A. In the late 40's, yeah. 14 Q. What type of application would permit the use 15 of a nonasbestos-containing disc for the flywheel as 16 opposed to using asbestos-containing? 17 MR RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 18 A. Any -- any application that you could use an 19 asbestos-faced material in you could use a 20 nonasbestos-faced material, as far as I can picture. 21 There are some cases you could use a nonasbestos 22 material or a ceramic material that you could not use 23 an asbestos-faced material. 24 Q. If the materials were interchangeable, why 25 did -- why was an asbestos clutch face used? 1 coefficient of friction than the asbestos material 2 contained, and the general feeling of the public 3 against asbestos had required us to look elsewhere for 4 a facing material. 5 Q. When you looked elsewhere for a facing 6 material, what steps did you take to replace the 7 asbestos? 8 A. Again, there were a number of steps. We 9 started in 19 -- well, in the mid 70's, let's say, and 10 requested our suppliers to look at alternative 11 materials that would give us the same characteristics 12 as the asbestos material. 13 Q. Why didn't you simply use the ceramic 14 materials that you were using in your 15 nonasbestos-containing clutch flywheels? 16 A. Again, because the general feeling -- or not 17 the general feeling, but the feeling by many customers 18 that there was a smoother engagement with the asbestos 19 material than the ceramic material. 20 Q. On overall performance, other than the smooth 21 engagement, was there any significant difference 22 between the performance of the asbestos-containing 23 flywheels and the nonasbestos-containing flywheels? 24 A. Again, if you're referring to nonasbestos as 25 the ceramic, the ceramic material would -- was capable Henjum Goucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO 6 (Pages 18 to 21) THOMAS DICKSON Page 22 Page 24 1 of higher torque capacities, it would wear at a much 2 lower rate so that you could obtain approximately 3 twice the life of the clutch. The negatives to it 4 were it was slightly more aggressive in engagement and 5 it had the potential to machine or cut the mating 6 surfaces such as the flywheel. 7 Q. What other materials did you use besides 8 ceramic? 9 A. When we moved away from asbestos lining, we 10 moved into a glass type of fiber lining. 11 Q. So up from the beginning in the 1940's until 12 1985, the only two uses of materials you had was 13 either asbestos-containing or ceramic for the 14 flywheels -- 15 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 16 Q. -- is that correct? 17 A. In 1983 we offered the asbestos -- the 18 nonasbestos fiberglass type material. 19 Q. And how well did that perform? 20 A It performed very nearly the same as the 21 asbestos material. That's what we eventually 22 superseded the asbestos material with, and it was a 23 matter of convincing our customers that it was capable 24 of doing the same type ofjob as the asbestos material 25 was. 1 but you keep on saying "flywheel," and I think that 2 Mr. Dickson has indicated that it's actually the 3 driven disc that may be asbestos-containing and not 4 the flywheel, just to be technically correct. 5 Q. Well, why don't we be really technically 6 correct and have you explain for me on the record, 7 Mr. Dickson, what is the part of the manual 8 transmission that contained asbestos. 9 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 10 A. The manual transmission doesn't contain 11 asbestos that I know of. 12 Q. Alright. What is the part of the clutch 13 that's incorporated into the manual transmission that 14 contains asbestos? . 15 A The clutch is a separate component in the 16 power train. There's an engine, a clutch, a 17 transmission, a drive line and an axle. A clutch is 18 bolted to the flywheel and the clutch contains -- 19 typical clutch contains, in a heavy truck, two driven 20 discs, an intermediate plate and what we call a 21 flywheel ring or clutch cover. And that's what's 22 bolted to the flywheel. 23 Q. What do you mean by a "driven disc"? 24 A. Driven discs are the discs that are driven -- 25 that -- that basically drive the input shaft of the 1 [ Page 23 Page 25 1 Q. So in 1983 when you introduced the fiberglass 2 substance, you actually had three alternatives: A 3 customer could purchase either the ceramic, the 4 fiberglass or the asbestos-containing; is that 5 correct? 6 A. That's correct ^ 1 Q. And then by 1985 you had phased out the 8 asbestos-containing? 9 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. Go 10 ahead. 11 A 1984 ~ January 1,1984 we stopped providing 12 asbestos-faced material. 13 Q. Did you -- did Dana take any steps to recall 14 or retrieve the asbestos-containing flywheels that had 15 been marketed prior to January 1 of 1984? 16 A No. The -- we did not feel there was any 17 problem with the asbestos-containing driven discs. It 18 was a matter of moving to another type of material 19 that was not as -- as objectionable to some of the 20 public. 21 Q. Could the fiberglass-containing flywheels be 22 used as replacement parts for those vehicles that had 23 been originally manufactured with the 24 asbestos-containing flywheels? 25 MR. RADCLIFFE: I don't mean to interrupt, 1 transmissioa The clutch is bolted to the flywheel. 2 When the pedal is down in the cab, the clutch is 3 released, which means the plate load, or spring load 4 of the clutch, is taken -- is taken off of it so that 5 the driven disc is free to turn separately from the 6 flywheel. As the driver engages the clutch, it 7 squeezes the driven disc, the intermediate plate and 8 the flywheel together to lock them up. 9 Q. So in that transmission -- in that clutch 10 there are two - two discs, one for each driven 11 A In a - in a typical 14-inch clutch, which 12 was the major seller at that time for heavy track. 13 there were two driven discs, an intermediate plate, a 14 clutch cover assembly, yes. 15 Q. Did each of the driven discs contain a -- in 16 those tracks where you used asbestos as a material on 17 a disc, did each of those discs contain that material? 18 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 19 A. Yes, the disc would -- would contain the same 20 material on both discs. 21 Q. And back to my original question, which is if 22 you were repairing a truck that had originally been 23 equipped with a clutch that had the asbestos material 24 on those two driven discs, could you use your 25 fiberglass material as a replacement when a repair was . j j S j | | | 1 Henjum Goucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO 7 (Pages 22 to 25) THOMAS DICKSON . Page 26 Page 28 | 1 necessary? 2 A. You could use the ceramic or the fiberglass 3 material. The clutches were changed as a complete 4 component, meaning that you changed the driven disc, 5 the intermediate plate and the cover all at the same 6 time. 7 Q. And there wouldn't be any problems associated 8 with replacing those driven discs with discs that 9 contained either ceramic or fiberglass -- 10 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 11 Q. -- any -- 12 A. Providing there wasn't any excess wear on the 13 flywheel, that's correct. 14 Q. And if there was wear on the flywheel? 15 A. Then you would need to resurface the flywheel 16 before you did it. 17 Q. Okay. But you could still use either 18 material? . 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. When, if ever, during the course of your 21 career at Dana did you become aware of any information 22 that exposure to asbestos could cause potential health 23 problems? 24 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. Go 25 ahead. 1 you would simply - "simply" is probably not the 2 proper term, but you would replace the driven discs 3 in toto? 4 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 5 A. Yes, normally you would replace the whole 6 clutch. You would unbolt it from the flywheel and 7 bolt a new clutch with driven discs to the flywheel. 8 Q. And during that process, it's your opinion 9 that you would never have to manipulate the faces of 10 the driven discs? 11 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 12 A. No, you wouldn't -- normally they -- you 13 didn't do anything to the faces. You picked the 14 products up and put them aside, but that was it. 15 Q. Do you know the percentage of asbestos that 16 was present in the asbestos discs that were used with 17 the manual transmissions that Dana sold to the various 18 manufacturers of light- and heavy-duty trucks? 19 A. No, I have no idea the percent of asbestos. 20 Q. Other than what we've talked about with 21 regard to the clutches, are you aware of any other 22 products that were sold by Dana that incorporated in 23 any form asbestos? 24 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. Go 25 ahead. ] ] j I Page 27 Page 29 1 A. I don't know that I can give you a date. I 2 would say sometime in the 70's, mid 70's. 3 Q. Can you tell me how you gained that 4 information? 5 A. Magazines, newspapers, general discussion. 6 concerns of -- of people. * 7 Q. Was there -- did you ever receive any written 8 information from your employer that exposure to 9 asbestos had the potential of causing health problems? 10 A. Not that I can recall, no. 11 Q. When a mechanic replaces or repairs a manual 12 transmission in a truck, what, if anything, would he 13 have to do to the faces or the material to the driven 14 discs? 15 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 16 A. Replacing the transmission has -- you would 17 not even touch the clutch facing material. 18 Q. Is there any occasion where you would repair 19 the clutch without replacing the transmission? 20 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 21 A. If you mean repair the clutch by changing the 22 clutch, yes, the clutch could be changed without 23 changing the transmission. 24 Q. And when you -- I'm just trying to see if I 25 understand this. When you are changing the clutch. 1 A. No, not that I could specifically say. I 2 have thoughts of some, but I -- I can't say for sure 3 that there was asbestos in them or not. 4 Q. What are the products that you suspect may 5 contain asbestos? 6 MR. RADCLIFFE: Well, I object to the 7 form. If you know, say so. But don't guess. 8 A. That's what I said, I don't know for sure 9 what was in other products. 10 Q. And during your career at Dana, would you 11 agree with me that the contact that you had would have 12 been to transmissions and clutch parts? 13 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. Go 14 ahead. 15 A. Axle, transmissions, clutches and universal 16 joints. 17 Q. And in your capacity with axles, you simply 18 are not familiar with die types of materials that were 19 incorporated in the brake assemblies that were ; j 20 attached to those axles? 21 A. That's correct. 1 22 Q. You indicated earlier that at a certain | 23 period of time during your employment at Dana you went j 24 to the service parts department? j 25 A. Correct. j Henjum Goucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO 8 (Pages 26 to 29) THOMAS DICKSON Page 30 Page 32 I I Q. And what was your job duty there? 2 A. To sell service parts to the OEM's, the 3 original equipment manufacturers. 4 Q. And what type of service parts were you 5 selling? 6 A. Transmission, clutch, universal joint and 7 axle. 8 Q. Was there another individual that would be 9 selling gasket materials? 10 A. I'm sure there was. I -- I don't even know 11 at that time whether we sold gasket materials. 12 Q. So you simply don't have any knowledge of 13 when Dana began selling gasket materials? 14 A. Correct 15 Q. Nor do you have any knowledge as to when they 16 sold gasket materials whether asbestos was 17 incorporated as a component of those gaskets? 18 A That's correct 19 Q. Did you, when you were in the service parts 20 department, sell any parts to domestic automobile 21 manufacturers for passenger cars? 22 A. I'm sure some of the parts that we sold to 23 the Chrysler, Ford and GM's went into light truck. As 24 far as passenger car, I have no idea if any of those 25 parts went into passenger cars. 1 manufacturers include any foreign companies? And by j 2 "foreign companies," I don't necessarily mean that 3 they're located outside the United States. They may 4 have distributors within the United States. 1 5 A No, at that time Mack Trucks wasn't a 1 6 foreign-owned company, so -- Mack, Brockway, Diamond 1 7 Rio were the main OEM's. We put on presentations to 8 then dealer organizations, but none of those sales | 9 were to foreign manufacturers that I knew of. i 10 Q. Was there an individual in your division that 11 sold to West Coast? | 1 12 A Yes. 13 Q. And in that capacity would he be selling to 14 those West Coast entities that you talked about f 15 earlier: Kenworth, Peterbilt, et cetera? 16 A Yes. 1 I 17 Q. And who are, to the best ofyour knowledge. 18 the West Coast manufacturers that bought Dana's I 19 clutches? 20 A The ones I named: The Peterbilt, Kenworth, | 21 Freightliner. 1 22 Q. How about International Harvester? | 23 A. International Harvester I consider Midwest, 1 24 and they were located in Fort Wayne at the time. We j 25 sold to them. 1 Page 31 Page 33 j 1 Q. During the time that you were with the 2 service department, did you sell any parts to foreign 3 car manufacturers or foreign buck manufacturers? 4 A. No, I didn't. 5 Q. Was that because of a limitation ofyour job 6 or is it because, to your knowledge, Dana didn't make 7 such sales? 8 A. In 19671 don't think we made many sales to 9 foreign products -- or foreign car manufacturers or 10 buck manufacturers. 11 Q. How long were you in that job? 12 A About three, four years. 13 Q. By the time you left in late 1960's/early 14 1970's, is your statement regarding the foreign 15 manufacturers still accurate? 16 A Yes. 17 Q. Where did you go after you left the service 18 department? 19 A. I went with the clutch division as an eastern 20 region sales representative -- sales and service . 21 representative. 22 Q. And who were you selling to? 23 A. I was selling to the East Coast original 24 equipment manufacturers. 25 Q. And did those original equipment 1 Q. GMC? Is that East Coast, West Coast -- 2 A. GMC we sold some to, but GMC got out of the 3 heavy buck business and I can't give you the date. 4 So the sales to GM -- GMC was not a major clutch 5 customer. 6 Q. When did the West Coast sales begin, if you 7 know? 8 A Ever since the West Coast started making 9 heavy bucks, I think they had Spicer-type clutch in 10 them. 11 Q. Do you know whether any of those clutches 12 were sold to Mercedes-Benz for them trucks? 13 A Mercedes-Benz I don't believe was even making 14 vehicles in the United States at that time, and they 15 hadn't purchased Freightliner by then either. 16 Q. What about Marmon? 17 A We supplied clutches to Marmon at some time. 18 I don't consider Marmon a foreign clutch manufacturer, 19 but 20 Q. No, I was just wondering if you had sold to 21 them. 22 A Yes. Any of the heavy-duty -- any of the 23 18-wheeler-type buck builders we probably supplied 24 some sort of clutch to. 25 Q. Is there any way of determining which trucks 1 1 1 1 | | 1 | j 1 s | j j Henjum Goucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO 9 (Pages 30 to 33) THOMAS DICKSON Page 34 Page 36 jj I the nonasbestos clutches were incorporated into and 2 which trucks the asbestos clutches were incorporated 3 into? 4 A. No, not without having a VIN number on the 5 vehicle where we could go back to the build sheet and 6 find out what the clutch number was that was supplied. 7 Q. In the same model year and make of track, 8 could either the ceramic be used or the asbestos, or 9 were they designated by model or model year? 10 A. The nonasbestos or asbestos clutch, if it was 11 a 14-inch clutch, let's say, could go in anyplace a 12 14-inch clutch would go. And it was specified either 13 by the end user or by the OEM. 14 Q. Were there any tracks that only contained 15 asbestos-containing clutches that Dana sold to? 16 A. Not to my knowledge. 17 Q. What types of trucks would a 14-inch clutch 18 be incorporated in? 19 A. Anything that had a 200-, 250-horsepower 20 diesel engine and up. 21 Q. Are there other size clutches for tracks 22 other than the 14-inch? 23 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And what are the other sizes? 1 A. Not that I can remember. I know there 2 were -- back in the -- you know, before my time back 3 in the early -- or the late 40's when the division was 4 purchased there were some smaller clutches sold for 5 the lighter vehicles, but during my period of time the 6 majority of the sales by far were the heavy trucks for 7 on highway. There were some light clutches sold in ag 8 and industrial, and those were all ceramic-faced 9 materials. 10 Q. During your course of employment in the 11 service department and as a sales representative, did 12 you sell any of the clutches for the light-duty 13 trucks? 14 A. I'm sure I did, but I can't specifically say 15 I sold ceramic or an asbestos product at that time. 16 Q. Does Dana still sell clutches for small 17 tracks? 18 A No. 19 Q. When did they cease? 20 A. They sold the clutch division to Eaton in the 21 late 90's. 22 Q. Up until the late 90's, were they continuing 23 to sell clutches for light-duty trucks like pickups? 24 A They didn't sell many clutches for 25 light-duty-type product at all from the -- from when I f j j j j ] j f Page 35 Page 37 1 A. For heavy track, there's a 15-and-a-half-inch 2 clutch. 3 Q. And what type of material did the 4 15-and-a-half-inch clutch have on the driven discs? 5 A. The same type of material that was used on 6 the 14-inch clutch: Either ceramic, nonasbestos or 7 asbestos. 8 Q. So is it true for any size clutch the 9 asbestos wasn't specified for any particular model 10 year or make? 11 A. The small clutches, if sold in a highway 12 vehicle-type application, would probably be asbestos 13 material back when we purchased the division in 40 14 the late 40's. We did not have much of that business. 15 The main sales at Dana were for the heavy track. And 16 in the heavy truck it could be asbestos or nonasbestos 17 or ceramic. 18 Q. When you talk about small trucks, are you 19 talking about pickups or some other type of vehicle? 20 A. Pickup -- yeah, pickup size truck. The-we 21 supplied a clutch for the Scout. It happened to be a 22 ceramic clutch, but that size vehicle could be -23 could have been an asbestos-type product. 24 Q. Do you recall any entities where you sold an 25 asbestos clutch for small trucks? 1 started with Dana in'64. The one exception I named 2 was the Scout. We did sell that, but it was a ceramic 3 product. Most of that business was with our 4 competitors. 5 Q. Did any of the clutch products that Dana 6 manufactured, did they sell in the aftermarkets? 7 A. We tried, yes. 8 Q. When did you begin that attempt? 9 A. I think ever since I've been with Dana they 10 tried to promote aftermarket sales. 11 Q. And would they sell that under the Spicer 12 name? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And how successful was that program? 15 A. Not very successful. 16 Q. Can you give me any estimation in volume of 17 sales percentagewise how much was aftermarket versus 18 OEM? 19 A. Are you referring to the light-duty product 20 now? 21 Q. No, I'm referring to any of the manual 22 clutches that contained asbestos. 23 A. I don't have a very good percentage. I can't 24 really pull out a number for sure on that. It was not 25 very high. In the heavy track market there were a j i j j j j j j j j j j j Henjum Goucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO 10 (Pages 34 to 37) THOMAS DICKSON Page 38 Page 40 1 number of local remanufacturers out there that were 2 undercutting our pricing considerably. 3 Q. Were any aftermarket sales made by Dana made 4 exclusively through Dana, or did they have 5 distributors? 6 A. Dana sold part of their products through the 7 OEM and their aftermarket distribution system, and 8 they sold to some independent warehouse distributors. 9 Q. Now, when you say they sold to OEM and their 10 aftermarket distributors, would their aftermarket 11 distributors put their name on the product or would it 12 be sold as a Spicer product? 13 A. In most cases, the sales through the OEM 14 would have the Spicer name on the product. In some 15 cases we were calling - we were putting on a label 16 like a Ford label so that the box would be a white box 17 with a Ford label on it. 18 Q. And Spicer's name wouldn't appear at all? 19 A. "Spicer" would appear on the clutch, but not 20 on the box. 21 Q. And who were the OEM entities that you sold 22 through their aftermarkets besides Ford? 23 MR. RADCL1FFE: Object to the form. 24 A. We sold all of the major heavy truck 25 manufacturers aftermarket or parts sales. Most of 1 Q. And do you recall when that occurred? 2 A. 1983 maybe,'4. Someplace in there. 3 Q. Do you recall where the trial took place? 4 A. Cincinnati, Ohio. 5 Q. Do you recall the name of the plaintiff? 6 A. Milford. 7 Q. Do you recall the name of the plaintiffs 8 attorney? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Have you been deposed before? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. How many times would you say you've been 13 deposed? 14 A. Twice. 15 Q. And when was the last occasion? 16 A. 1985. 17 Q. And do you recall where the case was pending 18 that you were deposed in? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Were you deposed in Ohio? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Do you recall the names of any of the 23 attorneys involved? 24 A. No. 25 Q. And when was the first time you were deposed? j i j j Page 39 Page 41 1 1 those were sold in a Spicer box. Ford, I believe, was 2 the only one that used what we call a "white box 3 concept" and their label. 4 Q. Would it say "Ford" or would it say 5 "Motorcraft"? 6 A. I believe it said "Ford," but I can't say 7 specifically which one it sold under. I believe it 8 was "Ford," "Ford Heavy Truck." 9 Q. Do you know how Dana sold their gasket 10 materials? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Do you know how Dana sold their axle 13 components? 14 A. No. 15 Q. So you don't know if they sold their axle 16 components in the aftermarket? 17 A. I believe their axle components in -- at 18 least in the light-duty, and I believe in the 19 heavy-duty, were sold through the OEMs only. They 20 were not sold through the independent warehouse 21 distributor organization. 22 Q. Have you ever testified at trial? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And in what type of case? 25 A. An asbestos case. 1 Was it in 1983 in the Milford case? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. What was the issue in Milford? 4 A. It was an asbestos case. 5 Q. For a mechanic? 6 A. For a mechanic. 7 Q. Did he work on trucks? 8 A. I believe he did. 9 Q. Is that the same for the case in 1985? 10 A. I don't recall exactly what the 1985 case 11 was. 12 Q. Was the substance of the opinions you offered 13 similar to what you've testified to today? 14 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 15 A. I believe so. 16 Q. Are you on a retainer from Dana? 17 A. I'm not on a retainer. I'm being--I'm a 18 consultant that is being paid for the time that I do 19 depositions. 20 Q. Now, at the time that you did the two prior 21 depositions and the trial testimony, you were actually 22 employed by Dana, correct? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. Is this the first deposition that you've 25 conducted since your retirement? j j j j 1 | j | i j Henjum Goucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO 11 (Pages 38 to 41) THOMAS DICKSON Page 42 Page 44 ] 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Have you reviewed any documents prior to 3 today's deposition? 4 A. Yes, some. 5 Q. What did you look at? 6 A. I looked at a letter to Ford Motor Company. 7 Q. Do you have that with you? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. What is the date of that letter? 10 A. June 30,1983. 11 Q. And what is the substance of the 12 correspondence? 13 A. It basically confirms that we were - plan on 14 using nonasbestos facings in our reman clutches. 15 MR. SMITH-GEORGE: Okay. Can we have that 16 marked as the first exhibit? 17 (EXHIBIT NO. 1 MARKED.) 18 Q. Have you brought any other documents with 19 you? 20 A. Yes. I have four other documents. 21 Q. Okay. Let's go through them serially. 22 What's the next one? 23 A. I have one to Sperry New Holland. 24 Q. What's the date of it? 25 A. April 28, 1986. 1 '84 was when we had made the complete change to the 2 nonasbestos. 3 Q. When was the decision to make the change? 4 When did that occur? 5 A. Well, as I said before -.- and I have 6 another -- what would be an announcement to the field 7 that we were offering nonasbestos materials in 1981, 8 August 13 of 1981. 9 Q. So between August of '81 and January of '84, 10 during the process of convincing your customers to buy 11 the fiberglass clutch, you were selling the remainder 12 of your asbestos clutches? 13 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 14 Q. Would that be accurate? 15 A. That's correct. I have -- also have with me 16 an internal memo to the sales manager that states we 17 were in the process of superseding all asbestos driven 18 disc assemblies to the nonasbestos, and that was dated 19 11/4/83. 20 MR. SMITH-GEORGE: Why don't we mark the 21 '86 document as Exhibit 2. 22 (EXHIBIT NO. 2 MARKED.) 23 Q. And as Exhibit Number 3 -- what's the next 24 document you had? 25 A. I had the press release of August 13,1981 -- | j j \ 1 j | j \ j Page 43 Page 45 1 Q. And what is the substance of the document? 1 MR. SMITH-GEORGE: All right. We'll mark j 2 A. Basically confirms that we were totally 2 that as 3. 3 asbestos free January 1,1984. 3 A. -- stating it was available. 4 Q. What did y*all do with -- let me ask it this 4 (EXHIBIT NO. 3 MARKED.) 5 way: How would you order the component parts to the 5 A. And I had the memo to the sales manager. ! 6 manual clutches? In other words, when you -- if you 6 MR. RADCLIFFE: Hold on. Are you caught 7 had to get the asbestos discs for the driven discs 7 up? 8 from either HK Porter or Raybestos, would you order 8 THE REPORTER: Thank you. 9 them in bulk or would you do it as the clutches were 9 MR. RADCLIFFE: Okay. Go ahead. 10 being manufactured? 10 MR SMITH-GEORGE: Well mark the memo to 11 A. I'm assuming you're talking about the clutch 11 the sales manager as Exhibit 4. 12 division now. 12 MS. HALES: What's the date on that? 13 Q. Correct. 13 THE WITNESS: Eighty-three. 11/4/83. j 14 A. The clutch division had standing orders with 14 (EXHIBIT NO. 4 MARKED.) 15 Raybestos and H.K. Porter for hundreds of clutch 15 Q. Did you bring any other documents with you? | 16 facings to be shipped a month. 16 A. One more. ] 17 Q. And at the time that you went asbestos free, 17 Q. Okay. j 18 did you have any inventory of material that was sent 18 A. It's a memo to -- or it's a letter to one of ! 19 by H.K. Porter and Raybestos? 19 our field customers, Consolidated Freightways, stating | 20 A. Yes. 20 that we were switching all our current facing j 21 Q. What did you do with that inventory? 21 materials from asbestos to a nonasbestos material. j 22 A. We used it. 23 Q. After January 1 of 1984? 22 Q. And what's the date of that? 23 A. July 6,1983. f 24 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 24 MR SMITH-GEORGE: Okay. Well mark that .25 A. No, not to my knowledge. January 1,1981 -- 25 as Exhibit 5. j Henjum Goucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO 12 (Pages 42 to 45) THOMAS DICKSON Page 46 Page 48 j 1 (EXHIBIT NO. 5 MARKED.) 2 Q. Did you review any documents that you haven't 3 brought with you today? 4 A. I glanced through some parts catalogues and 5 some material that was on file at the lawyer's office 6 here in Toledo. 7 Q. And what material was that? 8 A. It was copies of material that had been taken 9 from the clutch division. 10 Q. And what did it consist of? 11 A. Basically of the clutch catalogues. 12 Q. What did you find in reviewing those 13 catalogues? 14 A. Not a lot. Just refreshed my memory on the 15 products and that a little bit. 16 Q. Did the catalogues indicate which clutches 17 were asbestos-containing and which were not? 18 A. In some cases, yes. 19 Q. And is that indication by part number? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Were there any warnings in any of those 22 catalogues regarding the asbestos-containing clutch 23 products? 24 A. Not that I noticed. 25 Q. Do you know whether any warnings were ever 1 your -- well, do you have access to that document? 2 A. No, I don't. I just -1 feel that - that 3 Porter did put warnings on their material coming into 4 the plant towards the end of the 70's or the early 5 80's. 6 Q. Did Dana ever send to the United States 7 Government a material safety data sheet for the clutch 8 parts that they were selling? 9 A. Not to my knowledge. 10 Q. And just so I have a clear record, do you 11 also -- you would not have had access to wherever Dana 12 acquired the friction products that were incorporated 13 in die brake assemblies that they used on their axle 14 components; is that accurate? - 15 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 16 A. That's correct. 17 Q. And you also have no knowledge of whether 18 Dana ever sent a material safety data sheet regarding 19 any gasket materials that they sold? 20 A. Restate that agaia 21 Q. You also would not have any knowledge of 22 whether Dana ever submitted any material safety data 23 sheets for any gasket material that they sold? 24 A. That's correct. 25 Q. How much do you get paid for testifying? ] j j Page 47 Page 49 1 placed on any of the shipments of asbestos-containing 2 clutches? 3 A. To the best of my knowledge, there weren't. 4 As I said before, we really didn't consider the 5 product hazardous. 6 Q. When -- did you have ^'opportunity to 7 observe the materials that were sent by H.K. Porter 8 and Raybestos? 9 A. No, I didn't. 10 Q. So you don't know whether any of those 11 contained warnings at the time that you received them. 12 "you" being Dana? 13 A. I can't say I saw it, but I felt that towards 14 the early 80's -- and I may have seen a document, but 15 I felt they were warning on their boxes, their bulk 16 boxes to the plant. 17 Q. Do you know whether that document that you 18 saw is in the possession of your attorneys in the Ohio 19 office that you reviewed? 20 A. No21 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to form. Go ahead. 22 A. I don't believe it is. 23 Q. Do you know where you saw that document? 24 A. No, I don't. 25 Q. Do you have access to that document in 1 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 2 A. Two hundred and fifty dollars a halfday if I j 3 sign my form. j 4 Q. How -- how much time have you spent preparing [ 5 for this deposition? J 6 A. What did I say, five -- I don't -- I don't j 7 know because I haven't -- we haven't gone through all I 8 that. I've been over to the Toledo lawyer's office ! 9 five times, I believe, prior to this. 10 Q. And how much time did you spend on those 11 occasions? j 12 A. Maybe two, three hours a time in the office. j 13 Q. Besides reviewing the parts catalogues, what j 14 other activities did you engage in at those office - 15 at that office? | 16 A. General discussion on depositions, on what 17 was happening in -- with Dana in the -- in this field. 18 Q. Have you reviewed the testimony of j 19 Mr. Stoeckler? 20 A. No, I haven't. 21 Q. Who did you meet with when you went to the I 22 law office? 23 A. When I went to the firm? 24 Q. Yes. 25 A. Tom Radcliffe and -- Henjum Goucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO 13 (Pages 46 to 49) THOMAS DICKSON Page 50 Page 52 1 Q. On each of those five occasions? 2 A. No, I think one -- one of the occasions was a 3 phone conversation with Tom, one of them he wasn't 4 here. So that would leave, what, three? Three, I 5 think. 6 Q. And how long did those discussions last? 7 A. As I said, about three hours maybe. 8 Q. How much time was spent reviewing the 9 documents versus having discussions with the 10 attorneys? 11 A. I spent about three hours going through the 12 documents. One of the trips was to go through the 13 documents and see what was there. 14 Q. And other than the five documents that you 15 produced today, did you obtain copies of any other 16 documents from your view at the law office? 17 A I retained a copy of a parts catalogue. 18 Q. And what year was that catalogue? 19 A I don't recall right now. I believe it would 20 be in the mid 70's. 21 Q. And did you review that parts catalogue to 22 see what type of gasket material that Dana was 23 selling? 24 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 25 A No, I didn't. 1 MR. RADCLIFFE: Yes, I am. 2 Q. Do you know if anybody at -- any employee of 3 Dana ever filed a workers' compensation claim for an 4 asbestos-related disorder? 5 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 6 A. No, I don't. 7 Q. Did any of the records that you reviewed at 8 the law firm contain any workers' compensation 9 records? 10 A Not that I recall. 11 Q. Besides parts catalogues, what other type of 12 documents were contained within the area where you 13 spent three hours reviewing? 14 A Service manuals. 15 Q. Were the -- who -- where were the service 16 manuals -- whom were they from? 17 A The clutch division. 18 Q. So Victor put out a -- Fm sorry, Dana 19 Corporation put out a service manual for how to 20 install and repair their clutches? 21 A. Spicer clutch division of Dana put it out. 22 Q. And what was the earliest service manual that 23 you were able to review? 24 A. I believe there was one in the 60's, but 25 that -- like, '65 or '64, but I can't be sure of the j : i 1 j Page 51 Page 53 j 1 Q. Would that type of material be contained 2 within the catalogue? 3 A No, it wouldn't. 4 Q. Is this a catalogue specifically for 5 clutches? 6 A Yes. " 7 Q. This case is, at this point in time, set for 8 trial on November 17. Do you have any conflicts that 9 would prevent you from coming to Dallas -- I mean. 10 coming to Texas to testify? ' 11 A I don't have a calendar in front of me, but I 12 don't believe I do. 13 Q. Other than reviewing documents in preparation 14 for this deposition, have you done any other activity 15 since 1985 regarding Dana Corp. and any issues dealing 16 with asbestos? 17 A No, I haven't. 18 Q. What conversations did you have with the 19 attorney at the Ohio office? 20 MR. RADCLIFFE: I'm going to object. 21 Mr. Dickson is a consultant for Dana Corporation and 22 the conversations are covered by the attorney-client 23 privilege. 24 MR. SMITH-GEORGE: Are you going to 25 instruct him not to answer? 1 exact date. 2 Q. And how many manuals were there, if you can 3 estimate? 4 A. Maybe five or six. There-- 5 Q. And what was the latest one? 6 A. I believe there was one in the late 80's. 7 Q. Was there any indication in those service 8 manuals to use compressed air to blow out dust when 9 replacing a clutch? 10 A. No, there wasn't. 11 Q. Do you recall seeing any warning language or 12 cautionary language in any of those service manuals 13 regarding clutch repair or installation? 14 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. Go 15 ahead. 16 A There were warnings in the manuals concerning 17 how to measure things and how to do things. 18 Q. Was there any warnings or cautionary language 19 directed towards exposure to asbestos? 20 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. Go 21 ahead. 22 A. No, not that I could find. 23 Q. Other than service manuals and the parts 24 catalogues, what other type of documents, if any, were 25 contained within those documents that you reviewed? j j j ] j j 1 j j j j j j ] j j Henjum Goucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO 14 (Pages 50 to 53) THOMAS DICKSON Page 54 Page 56 1 A. There were some various interna] clutch 2 division documents. 3 Q. What was the genera] substance of those? 4 A. Some of them are -- are kind of what we 5 pulled out which you've tagged. There were some plant 6 reports of OSHA or insurance inspections. 7 Q. And did any of those plant reports deal with 8 the issue of dust from -- the dust that may contain 9 asbestos? 10 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 11 A Yes. I believe they -- they had some shop 12 readings of asbestos in the air. 13 Q. What type of shops were they? 14 A. It was a manufacturing shop. 15 Q. And do you recall what levels, if any, of 16 asbestos dust they checked in the air? 17 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 18 A. No, I don't recall exactly what the levels 19 were. 20 Q. Was it a measurable quantity? 21 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 22 A It was measurable, but I believe they were 23 all below OSHA standards. 24 Q. Do you know the dates of those documents to 25 determine what the OSHA standard was at the time? 1 A I can't say why it was installed I'm sure 2 the dust measurements had something to do with it. 3 Q. In your view of the documents, did you find 4 any documents that indicated that Dana had at any time 5 been cited for a violation of OSHA with regard to 6 exposures to asbestos? 7 A No, I did not see anything that Dana was 8 violating any OSHA. 9 Q. Other than the service manuals, the parts 10 catalogue and those dust studies and correspondence 11 similar to what we attached as exhibits, what other 12 documents, if any, did you review? 13 A That basically covers it. 14 Q. And have you - for those documents that 15 mention the replacement of asbestos, did you -- are 16 the five that we have marked as exhibits ail of the 17 documents that contain that content from those that 18 you reviewed? 19 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 20 A Could you repeat that question again? 21 Q. Sure. That's kind of convoluted. The five 22 documents that we have marked as exhibits all involve 23 Dana's approach -- execution ofremoving the asbestos 24 from some of their discs. Are those all of the 25 documents that mention that from that depository that i 1 1 3 I 1 | j 1 j Page 55 Page 57 | 1 A I can't give you an exact date. I believe it 2 was in the late 70's, early 80's. 3 Q. And this was a shop that was devoted to 4 clutch building? 5 A It was the area of the shop that the facings 6 were applied to - to the driven disc, to the steel 7 driven disc. 8 Q. How were they applied? 9 A. Riveted. 10 Q. Were they predrilled? 11 A. Yes. They were molded in. 12 Q. Were there any measurements of the unloading 13 operation of the facings before they were attached? 14 A. That was all done right in that area. I 15 believe whatever testing was done was all done in the 16 same area. 17 Q. Did those employees wear respirators? 18 A. No, not that I know of. 19 Q. Was there exhaust ventilation present? 20 A I believe exhaust ventilation was installed 21 around, again, the late 70's, early 80's. 22 Q. Was the exhaust ventilation installed as a 23 result of the dust measurements or was it installed 24 sometime prior to that? 25 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 1 you reviewed? 2 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 3 A I can't say they're all of them. I think 4 they represent all of them. 5 Q. Do you have a specific recollection of coming 6 across one that had that subject matter that you 7 didn't get a copy of? 8 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 9 A No, I can't say --1 can't pick out a 10 document that isn't included in this group, but -11 Q. Can you tell me the approximate volume of 12 documents that you reviewed by -- do you know what a 13 banker's box is? 14 A Yep. 15 Q. How many did you review? 16 A. One and a half small banker boxes. 17 Q. Do you know whether Dana has retained the 18 sales records for various part numbers for -- for the 19 clutches they sold to the various manufacturers? 20 A There weren't any sales records in those 21 boxes. There were some forecasts, but no sales 22 records. There might have been a few sales order 23 copies from Mack Trucks, but that was all that was in 24 there. 25 Q. Do you recall what the dates of those were? j | j 1 i Henjum Goucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO 15 (Pages 54 to 57) THOMAS DICKSON Page 58 Page 60 1 A. Those were the early 70's -- late 60's, early 2 70's Dana acquired the Mack Truck clutch business. 3 Q. In those documents that had sales 4 projections, was it broken down by ceramic and 5 asbestos-containing clutches? 6 A. No, it was broken down by ceramic versus 7 organic. 8 Q. And organic would include just asbestos or 9 other products in addition to asbestos? 10 A It would include asbestos or the 11 fiberglass - fiber -- glass-lined driven discs, 12 although most, ofthe forecast sheets that I saw were 13 during the time that it was -- that we had only 14 offered asbestos. 15 Q. Prior to 1984? 16 A Prior to 1984, right. 17 Q. And do you have any figures that you recall 18 of what the projected sales were for the organic? 19 A Not offthe top ofmy head except that the -- 20 since about 19 -- I'm going to say '73, '74, the 21 ceramic had been increasing in volume to where I would 22 estimate by 1980 about 50 percent of the sales were 23 ceramic in original equipment. 24 Q. So prior to that time Dana sold more organic 25 than ceramic? 1 A. Correct. 2 MR. SMTTH-GEORGE: Well, I want to thank 3 you for your time. I don't have any more questions. 4 THE WITNESS: All right. Thank you. 5 MR. RADCLIFFE: Anybody else on the phone 6 with questions? 7 MR. GRIMALDO: Yes. Arthur Grimaldo with 8 Ford Motor Company. I have a few questions for 9 Mr. Dickson. 10 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 11 EXAMINATION OF THOMAS G. DICKSON ! 12 BY MR GRIMALDO: 13 Q. Earlier you were talking about Spicer brakes 14 were sold to Ford in a boxed marked as "Ford." Do you 15 remember that testimony? 16 MR RADCLIFFE: I don't believe that's 17 what he said. He was talking about clutches, I 18 believe. 19 Q. I'm sorry, that's what I'm -- clutches, sir. 20 You were talking about Spicer clutches being sold to 21 Ford? 22 A I believe they were sold to Ford in a white 23 box with a Ford label. 24 Q. Do you recall what year the first time that 25 occurred? Page 59 Page 61 1 A Correct. And when we took the Mack clutch 2 business over at the beginning of 1970 - or the -- 3 1970's, I should say, we developed a specific product 4 that would handle the higher torque engine that Mack 5 had. It was called a "super-duty 14-inch clutch." 6 And that -- the 14-inch two-plate clutch was the 7 standard of the industry at that time. And the sales 8 on that -- because it could offer so much longer life 9 than the asbestos product, the sales continued to grow 10 through the 70's and on into the 80's. So there were 11 more and more people using the super-duty or 12 ceramic-type material every year. 13 Q. Was that offered only for Mack Trucks? 14 A. No, that was offered for Mack Trucks for one 15 year, kind of exclusive, and it was also our test 16 period. And then it was offered to the rest of the 17 industry after that. 18 Q. So 1970 was the test period? 19 A. I'm going to say 70 is probably the test 20 period. I'd have to look to get the exact dates, but 21 from '69 to 71, someplace in there. 22 Q. Prior to the development of that product, 23 what was the percentage of organic versus ceramics? 24 A Ten percent maybe. 25 Q. Ten percent ceramic, ninety percent organic? 1 A I can't. It would be, I would guess, in the 2 late 60's, early 70's. 3 Q. You said they were sold for their heavy 4 trucks. What trucks do you consider heavy trucks? 5 A. Anything over a 200-horsepower diesel engine. 6 Q. Do you know if this was true for all the 7 models of the Ford diesel trucks that were over 8 200-horsepower diesel engines? 9 A I can't say it was true for all of them, but 10 it was certainly the maj ority. 11 Q. Do you recall any specific models that would 12 have been true for? 13 A Seven thousand, eight thousand series. 14 Q. During that time period up until 1983, do you 15 recall how many -- do you know the percentage of 16 clutches that were being sold to Ford from the 60's 17 that were nonorganic clutches? 18 MR RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 19 A. I didn't understand the question too well. 20 Q. Okay. In the 1960's when Spicer was selling 21 clutches to Ford, do you know what percent of those 22 would have been nonorganic clutches? 23 A No, I can't tell you that for sure. It would 24 be -- again, you know, I'd have to go by my 25 recollection of the industry, which would be probably j j j j j j j j j j j | ! j : j j j [ i j i Henjum Goucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO 16 (Pages 58 to 61) THOMAS DICKSON Page 62 Page 64 j 1 90 percent would be asbestos and 10 percent ceramic. 2 MR. SMITH-GEORGE: Objection, 3 nonresponsive. 4 Q. And you also have attached a letter as an 5 exhibit dated June 1983 that -- to Ford that confirms 6 using nonasbestos clutches from that date forward; is 7 that correct? 8 A. Let me find it. 9 The letter is specifically directed towards 10 remanufactured clutches, but it's also true -- I mean. 11 the January 19 -- 1,1984 date was good for production 12 as well. 13 MR. GRIMALDO: Sir, that's all the 14 questions I have for you. Thank you. 15 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 16 MR. RADCLIFFE: Anybody else on the phone 17 with questions? 18 MR. SMI 1H-GEORGE: I've got one follow-up 19 ifnobody else has questions. 20 MR RADCLIFFE: I've got a couple. You 21 might want to withhold your follow-up. 22 MR SMITH-GEORGE: Okay. 23 MR. KATZ: Yeah, Pve got a couple 24 questions, too. 25 MS. HENDRICKSON: So do I. 1 Q. And do you remember what year that was? 2 A I can't put a year on it, but I believe it 3 would be in the late 70's -- 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. -- as their standard product. 6 MR KATZ: I believe those are all the 7 questions I have for you. Thanks for your time, 8 Mr. Dickson. 9 EXAMINATION OF THOMAS G. DICKSON 10 BY MS. HENDRICKSON: 11 Q. This is Cathy Hendrickson representing Borg 12 Warner. I have a few questions for you. Have you 13 ever spoken with any -- with anyone from Borg Warner 14 or any of its divisions? 15 A. I have. I can't tell you who or when, but I 16 have. 17 Q. Okay. Can you -- can you tell me what was 18 said? 19 A No. It would probably be at trade shows, 20 just general conversation. 21 Q. Do you remember any discussion whatsoever 22 regarding asbestos? 23 A. No, I don't. 24 Q. Okay. How about any asbestos products 25 contained in any clutch assemblies? Do you recall j j 1 s Page 63 Page 65 I 1 MR RADCLIFFE: Go ahead. People on the 2 phone, go ahead. 3 EXAMINATION OF THOMAS G. DICKSON 4 BY MR KATZ: 5 Q. Hi, Mr. Dickson. This is Jason Katz. I 6 represent Paccar. I just have a few questions for 7 you. 8 You don't have any personal knowledge of what 9 products were sent to Peteibilt or Kenworth, do you? 10 A I don't have personal knowledge of all the 11 products that were sent to Peterbilt or Kenworth, but 12 I know that we sent ceramic and nonceramic product to 13 Peterbilt and Kenworth. 14 Q. But you -- you can't testify that you know 15 whether the clutches sent to Peteibilt or Kenworth 16 were asbestos-containing or not? 17 MR SMITH-GEORGE: Object to form. 18 A I can testify that we had sent 19 asbestos-containing product to Peterbilt and Kenworth 20 prior to 1984. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. I will say Peteibilt -- or Kenworth, I 23 believe it was, was one of the track manufacturers 24 that changed to a ceramic-type facing very early in 25 the game. 1 ever discussing that with any Borg Warner 2 representative? 3 A No, I don't. 4 Q. Okay. Would you agree that there's no need 5 to sand or grind the surface of a new clutch lining 6 prior to installing it on a vehicle? 7 MR SMITH-GEORGE: Object to form. 8 A Correct. 9 Q. Okay. Other than in this suit, have you ever 10 heard of any mechanics engaging in this practice of 11 grinding or sanding? 12 MR SMITH-GEORGE: Object to form. 13 A. No, I haven't. 14 Q. Okay. What impact would sanding or grinding 15 the surface of a new clutch lining have on the 16 clutch's performance, if you know? 17 A It would probably throw the driven disc out 18 of balance. 19 Q. Would that be a practice that Dana would 20 recommend for its new clutches? 21 MR SMITH-GEORGE: Object to form. 22 A. No, Dana did not recommend doing anything 23 but installing the product as it came to them in the 24 box. 25 Q. Okay. Thank you. And I apologize if you j j j J i [ j ! j ' Henjum Goucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO 17 (Pages 62 to 65) THOMAS DICKSON Page 66 . Page 68 1 said this earlier. Can you give me the largest 1 mechanics the proper methods of clutch installation, 2 diameter of clutch disc that Dana made during the 2 removal and repair woric? 3 years 1970 to 1990? 3 A. Yes. 4 A. I believe it was the 15-and-a-half-inch 4 Q. Let me ask you a couple questions about 5 driven disc. 5 clutch installation. Strike that. 6 Q. And how about the smallest disc, smallest 6 For a -- for a Spicer clutch in the field, 7 diameter? 7 what type of work was done at most buck facilities? 8 A. We -- the smallest one that they made since 8 MR. SMITH-GEORGE: Object to form. 9 Dana acquired the company was a 6-and-a-half-inch or 9 A Well, there are two major things done to the 10 6-and-a-quarter-inch driven disc. 10 clutch. One was to adjust it and one was to remove it 11 Q. Okay. I think just one more question. Did 11 and replace, R&R. 12 Dana manufacture more passenger vehicle or more large 12 Q. For an adjustment, a clutch adjustment, would 13 truck clutches? . 13 there be -- well, let me ask you this: For a clutch 14 A. From the time I -- 14 adjustment, was that a -- was that a dirty job? 15 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 15 A Anything under the truck was a dirty job. 16 A -- was with Dana, they were large clutch, 17 heavy truck clutch vehicles. 16 Q. You were asked questions earlier about dust 17 from clutches. In your expenence, did you ever see 18 MS. HENDRICKSON: Okay. Thank you very 18 dust coming from clutches? 19 much. That's all the questions I have at this time. 19 A No, I -- I believe the discussion was -- 20 MR. RADCLIFFE: Anybody else on the phone? 20 before was dust in the shop. 21 MR. SMTTH-GEORGE: Just mine, but go 21 Q. Okay. In the field, did you ever see dust 22 ahead. Anybody else going? 22 coming from clutches? 23 MR. RADCLIFFE: Yeah, let me ask mine, and 23 MR. SMTTH-GEORGE: Object to form. 24 then you can go. 24 A. No, I did not see dust coming from the 25 EXAMINATION OF THOMAS G. DICKSON 25 clutches. There's a lot of dirt and grease and grime, Page 67 Page 69 1 BY MR. RADCLIFFE: 2 Q. Mr. Dickson, were the ceramic clutches and 3 the organic clutches interchangeable? 4 MR. SMITH-GEORGE: Object to form. 5 A. Yes. , 6 Q. And so the -- was there any difference in the 7 cost of a ceramic clutch versus an asbestos clutch? 8 A The ceramic clutch was more expensive. 9 Q. Who made the determination of whether or not 10 to include a ceramic clutch or an asbestos clutch? 11 MR. SMITH-GEORGE: Object to form. 12 A. The clutches were specified by two people: 13 Either the end user in the case of a fleet like 14 Consolidated Freightways, or the OEM in the case of 15 Ford or International Harvester or whoever. 16 Q. Did there come a time in your career when you 17 were in the field and able to witness clutch 18 installation, removal and IT1 call it generally 19 repair work? 20 A Yes. 21 Q. Did you have any training in clutch 22 installation, removal and repair work? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Did there come a time during your career when 25 you were in the field where you actually taught '--ESS 1 but it isn't dust like you see dust in the air. 2 MR. SMITH-GEORGE: Objection, 3 nonresponsive. 4 Q. Could there have been -- could there have 5 been some particulate matter -- if you opened up a 6 clutch, could you -- might there be some particulate 7 matter in the clutch? 8 MR. SMITH-GEORGE: Object to form. 9 A If you mean particulate matter by dirt and 10 grime and grease, yes. 11 Q. Okay. For a clutch adjustment, did that 12 require a person to take the clutch apart? 13 A No. 14 Q. For a removal and replacement, can you take 15 me through the steps required to do that? 16 A You'd remove the transmission, unbolt the 17 clutch from the flywheel, lay it aside, bolt a new 18 clutch into its place or a reman clutch and put the 19 transmission back together and adjust it. 20 Q. A "reman clutch," is that remanufactured? 21 A. Remanufactured. 22 Q. When the old clutch was taken off and put 23 aside, in your average repair shop what was done with 24 that old clutch? 25 MR. SMITH-GEORGE: Object to form. j j j j i j | j I 18 (Pages 66 to 69) Henjum Goucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO THOMAS HICKSON Page 70 Page 72 j 1 A. Thrown in a big drum. 2 Q. Was it thrown away? Was it sent back to be 3 remanufactured? 4 A. It was -- 5 MR. SMi l H-GEORGE: Object to form. 6 A. Depending on what shop you were in, it was 7 sent to a local remanufacturer or sent back to the 8 Spicer remanufacturer or it was scrapped. 9 Q. When you say "Spicer remanufacturer," what do 10 you mean? 11 A. We had a remanufacturing operation for a 12 period of time that basically rebuilt clutches. 13 Q. When did that remanufacturing operation 14 start? 15 A. Mid 70's. 16 MR. RADCL1FFE: No other questions. Back 17 to you, Mr. Smith-George. 18 MR. SMITH-GEORGE: Oh, okay. I thought 19 you said "another question." 20 , MR. RADCLIEFE: No. No, I'm sorry. No 21 other questions. 22 MR. SMITH-GEORGE: Okay. 23 EXAMINATION OF THOMAS G. DICKSON 24 BY MR SMITH-GEORGE: 25 Q. Let me ask you this: When you remove the 1 grease that you're into. It's a very dirtyjob, but 2 there isn't anything floating around in the air to 3 speak of. 4 Q. Where does the wear debris from the clutch 5 facing go as the car -- as the truck is being used? 6 A. It falls down into the bottom of the flywheel 7 housing, bell housing, flywheel, falls out the 8 inspection cover hole where the inspection cover 9 wasn't put back on. 10 Q. Do you have to remove the flywheel housing to 11 replace a clutch? 12 A No. 13 Q. Do you replace the whole component, and that 14 includes the flywheel housing? 15 A No, the flywheel housing is attached to the 16 engine, and it stays there. The engine -- it's 17 actually mounted into the truck frame by the flywheel 18 housing. The engine's mounted into the truck frame by 19 the flywheel housing. The flywheel is inside the 20 housing, and sometimes you needed to remove the 21 flywheel to have it worked on, but you never removed 22 the flywheel housing without removing the engine. 23 Q. Now, you indicated that you had an 24 opportunity to observe clutch -- clutch repairs on . 25 trucks. When did that occur? Page 71 Page 73 | 1 transmission to replace the clutch, do you have to 2 take off the bell housing? 3 A You take -- the transmission and the 4 transmission bell housing on a heavy truck all come 5 out together. 6 Q. Is the clutch mechanism within the bell 7 housing? 8 A The clutch is attached to the flywheel and 9 it's housed inside the transmission bell housing. 10 Q. So you have to remove the bell housing to get 11 access to the clutch? 12 A When you take the transmission down -- when 13 you pull a transmission in a heavy truck, the bell 14 housing comes with it. You unbolt it from the 15 flywheel housing -- you unbolt the bell housing from 16 the flywheel housing and the transmission and 17 transmission bell housing come out at one piece. 18 Q. And in the -- when you unbolt the bell 19 housing, if you had a clutch that had been used to the 20 extent that it needed to be replaced, would there be 21 the presence of dust? 22 MR RADCLEFFE: Object to the form. 23 A Again, I refer -- you referred to dust. I 24 refer to dust as something that floats in the air, and 25 no, there wouldn't be. It would be dirt and grime and 1 A When I went to the eastern region, 1970, '71, 2 part of my duties was to train the dealers and fleets 3 in that area as well as call on the OEM's. 4 Q. And what were you training them to do? 5 A. Training them to adjust the product or to R&R 6 the product, remove and replace. 7 Q. And where did you learn how to R&R the 8 product? 9 A. At the clutch division in Auburn, Indiana. 10 Q. And when did you get that instruction? 11 A Prior to going out to -- physically moving 12 out to the East Coast. 13 Q. What did that instruction entail? 14 A. Basically removing and replacing clutches. 15 Q. How long was the instruction? 16 A Two weeks. 17 Q. How often did you train individuals to do 18 that? 19 A. Probably put on 4 or 500 clutch schools 20 during my tenure in the eastern region. 21 Q. And how long would those schools last? 22 A. Could last anyplace from an hour to a couple 23 hours. 24 Q. How often did you have an opportunity to 25 observe mechanics in garages performing R&R on a ] j j j j j ] \ 1 I j j ! .(wwii 19 (Pages 70 to 73) Henjum Goucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO THOMAS DICKSON Page 74 Page 76 ! 1 transmission of a truck? 2 MR. RADCL1FFE: Object to the form. 3 A. Excuse me. Could you repeat that question? 4 Q. Sure. How often did you have an opportunity 5 to observe mechanics in the shop doing an R&R on a 6 clutch on a truck? 7 A I don't know. Maybe 3,400 times. Most of 8 the time when we put on a clutch school we'd have the 9 mechanic -- one of the mechanics or a couple of the 10 mechanics do a clutch removal and replacement. 11 Q. Now, was that in their facility? 12 A In most cases, yes. 13 Q. And you said this practice started in 1979? 14 A No, '71 about, *70, '71 when I first went out 15 to the eastern region, from then until about 76,77, 16 someplace in there, when I went back to Auburn. 17 Q. And during any of those R&R's, did you ever 18 see the mechanics using compressed air to clean out 19 the bell housing? 20 A No. We took the air hose away from them when 21 I was there. 22 Q. And why did you do that? 23 A. Because part of our presentation was that you 24 didn't use an air hose on a truck. It did create road 25 dirt/dust in the air if you blew it. Our instructions 1 MR SMTTH-GEORGE: I respectfully object 2 to responsiveness. 3 Q. I'm asking you when did you first become 4 aware of any health hazards associated with the 5 inhalation of asbestos dust and fibers, regardless of 6 the source. 7 MR RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 8 A I can't put a time on it. I would say in the 9 early 70's. 10 Q. And your opportunity to -- well, let me ask 11 you this: What would happen if you got grease on the 12 asbestos surface of the discs? How would that affect 13 the operation ofthe discs? 14 A. The grease would probably be gone within the 15 first engagement. 16 Q. Are you saying it would have no effect at 17 all? 18 A I don't think you'd notice it unless you 19 really smeared the disc with grease. But a little bit 20 of grease wouldn't even be noticed. 21 Q. And from your review of mechanics doing track 22 installation, have you ever observed them lightly 23 sanding the surface to remove grease spots? 24 A. No. 25 Q. When you were participating in these schools, I j i j j Page 75 Page 77 1 were to wipe the flywheels and any component parts 2 down with a solvent and a rag. 3 Q. Was there -- was any - was there any concern 4 for the entrainment of asbestos dust by using an air 5 hose on the bell housing or was it all just for 6 general dirt and grime? '. 7 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 8 A The reason for not using the air hose was 9 because you blew things out and got them in your eyes 10 and that sort of thing. There was no concern about 11 asbestos at the time that I knew of, anyway. 12 Q. Were you aware at this point in time, 70, 13 71, of any health hazards associated with the 14 inhalation of asbestos dust or fibers? 15 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 16 A. Not with friction product asbestos. I can't 17 say that I didn't know that there was insulation 18 things being written or going on at that time. 19 Q. When did you first become aware of 20 allegations of health hazards associated with the 21 inhalation of asbestos dust and fibers? 22 MR RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 23 A. I haven't become aware that there's a health 24 hazard with friction product asbestos. 25 Q. That wasn't my question. 1 did you ever instruct anyone to wear a respirator or a 2 dust mask? ! 3 A No. . 4 Q. When's the last time you performed one of j 5 these schools? 6 A Probably in the mid 80's, '85, '86. j 7 Q. And when's the last time that you had the j 8 opportunity to observe a mechanic performing an R&R on ] 9 a manual clutch? j 10 A Probably about that same time. 11 Q. And at any point in time during those j 12 observations, did you yourself wear a dust mask? 13 A No. j I 14 Q. Now, you said you conducted these schools, j 15 you believe, about four or five times; is that | 16 accurate? 17 MR RADCLIFFE: Object to the form Four J 18 or 500. j 19 Q. Oh, did you say 4 or 500? That's why I 20 asked. ] 21 A Right. I'd say 4 or 500 over that period of i 22 time. i 23 Q. So this is - this is something - you were : 24 in -- how long were you in the eastern region? j 25 A From about 71 to 76,77. Someplace in --- K 20 (Pages 74 to 77) Henjum Goucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO THOMAS DICKSON Page 78 Page 80 1 there. 2 Q. So you would do about a hundred of these 3 schools per year? 4 A. That's a rough estimate, yes. 5 Q. You had indicated that Kenworth was the first 6 to adopt die ceramic lining. Are you aware of whether 7 they purchased organic materials after that point in 8 time in the late 70's? 9 DEFENSE COUNSEL: Objection, form. 10 A Because of the way the clutch is specified, 11 the OEM's had to produce whatever the end user would 12 specify. And I would -- I can't say for sure once 13 Kenworth made the change to ceramic whether they ever 14 produced other product, but I would guess they did 15 simply because of the customer base. 16 Q. Do you have any documentation that would 17 contain the date upon which Kenworth made the decision 18 to go with the ceramics as their primary product? 19 A No, I don't. 20 Q. And do you know the individual in Dana Corp. 21 who would have the West Coast sales that would know 22 that information? 23 A I would have to think about that a while only 24 because I don't -- my memory doesn't remember names 25 very well. 1 ceramics, 50 percent organics. Did there come a 2 period in time prior to 1983 when that ratio changed? 3 A. I think what I said was from the 70's -- the 4 early 70's to 1980 the ceramic product grew from a 5 very low percentage to around 50 percent of the 6 business, around 1980. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. Those were forecasted figures. I didn't see 9 actual sales figures on them, but I feel they were 10 pretty close. 11 Q. And then the ceramics grew as the asbestos 12 was removed. If you compared the ceramics to 13 fiberglass, would it be true that the ceramics are 14 more in use today than the fiberglass ones, discs? 15 A. Yes. I think ceramics continued to grow, but 16 at a slower pace from 1980 to the present. 17 MR. SMITH-GEORGE: All right. That's all 18 the questions I have. Thank you. 19 MR. RADCLIFFE: Anybody else on the phone? 20 MR KATZ: I have one quick follow-up 21 question. This is Mr. Katz. 22 EXAMINATION OF THOMAS G. DICKSON 23 BY MR KATZ: 24 Q. Can you testify whether Dana Corp. sold any 25 brake products to Peterbilt or Kenworth? j 3 j j j , Page 79 Page 81 1 Q. How did you - what are you basing your 2 statement on that Kenworth at some point in time made 3 a decision to use ceramics as their primary 4 transmission material? 5 A. Well, when we -- when yve started the Mack 6 business on the East Coast with'that super-duty clutch 7 I talked about, that rapidly became a premium product 8 and a standard of the industry. And Kenworth was 9 always somewhat a leader in new products coming into 10 the industry that were being accepted well by fleets. 11 And Mack was using probably 70 percent ceramic with 12 that clutch, and sometime not too long after that 13 people started changing to it and Ijust recall that 14 Kenworth was one of the ones that changed in the 15 earlier part of that swing. 16 Q. Now, Mack, even though they had the 17 super-duty clutch, still used about 30 percent 18 organics on their trucks? . 19 A I would say they probably used about 20 20 percent maybe. They used some standard ceramic, we 21 call it, which was -- didn't have as many ceramic 22 buttons on the disc as the super-duty did. 23 Q. When - you had indicated earlier that from 24 those sales records that you reviewed there was a 25 point in time where the sales were about 50 percent 1 MR RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 2 MR SMITH-GEORGE: Object to form. 3 A I can't testify to that, no. I don't believe 4 they did, but I can't -- I can't say for sure. 5 Q. Okay. Who would have that information? 6 Would the West Coast representative have that 7 information? 8 A No. At that time -- at the time that we were 9 selling heavy truck product -- axles to the industry, 10 it was all being done out of the home offices. And 11 basically the heavy truck product was the old 12 International Harvester axle that Dana purchased, and 13 most of it was sold to International Harvester. It 14 would have been sales in the late 80's or 90's that it 15 would even be possible for Kenworth to put one of the 16 axles in, and I really doubt whether they ever 17 engineered a Spicer axle into that vehicle prior to 18 the late 90's, if they did at all. 19 MR KATZ: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Dickson. 20 THE WITNESS: Uh-huh. 21 MR SMITH-GEORGE: Just for a point of 22 clarification, was that question regarding brakes? 23 MR KATZ: Yes. 24 MR RADCLIFFE: That's what the question 25 was. j j 1 j j j HenjumGoucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO 21 (Pages 78 to 81) THOMAS DICKSON Page 82 1 MR. SMTTH-GEORGE: Okay. I land of missed 2 that. I don't have any more. 3 (Deposition concluded, 3:52 p.m.) 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I, THOMAS G. DICKSON, have read the foregoing deposition and hereby affix my signature that same is true and correct, except as noted above. THOMAS G. DICKSON THE STATE OF COUNTYOF___ Before me , on this day personally appeared THOMAS G. DICKSON, loiown to me (or proved to me under oath or through), (description of identity card or other document), to 10 be the person whose name is subscribed to the foregoing instrument and acknowledged to me that they 11 executed the same for the purposes and consideration therein expressed. 12 Given under my hand and seal of office on 13 this theof,. 14 15 NOTARY PUBLIC IN AND FOR 16 THE STATE OF _ 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 84 1 CHANGES AND SIGNATURE 2 PAGE LINE CHANGE REASON 3 ________________ ,____________________ 4 _________ ;_______ ' __________ 5 _____________________________ 6 '_________ _____________ " 7 ___________ ;____________ 8 ______________,___________________ ___ 9 _____________________________ '_______ 10 _______________,________________' 11 _________________ ^__________________ 12 _________ ,________ ___________________ 13 ________ _________ ,___________________ 14 _________________ ____________________ 15 ________ ' '_____________________ 16 _______________ _______________ __ 17 _____________ ;____________ 18 _____________________________ ^_______ 19 ________________ ;____________________ 20 _____________________________ |_______ 21 _______________ _______________ 22 ____________ __ _______________ 23 . ___________________________ 24 ______________ .___________ . 25 . ;_______ Page 83 1 NO. 35116-02-03 2 CHRISTOPHER STOECKLER and) IN THE DISTRICT COURT WENDY STOECKLER, ) 3 Plaintiffs, ) 4 VS. ) ) 159th JUDICIAL DISTRICT ) 5 AMERICAN OIL COMPANY, ) (sued individually and as) 6 successor-in-interest to ) AMOCO OIL COMPANY and ) 7 AMOCO, INC.), et al. ) Defendants. ) ANGELINA COUNTY, TEXAS 8 9 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION DEPOSITION OF THOMAS G. DICKSON 10 TAKEN ON OCTOBER 22, 2003 11 I, Rebecca L. Stonerock, Registered 12 Professional Reporter, hereby certify to the 13 following: 14 That the witness, THOMAS G. DICKSON, was duly 15 sworn by the officer and that the transcript ofthe 16 oral deposition is a true record of the testimony 17 given by the witness; 18 That the deposition transcript was submitted 19 onto the witness or the 20 attorney for the witness for examination, signature, 21 and return to me by; 22 That the amount of time used by each party at 23 the deposition is as follows: 24 Mr. Smith-George, 01:23 Mr. Grimaldo, 00:04 25 Mr. Katz, 00:02 Ms. Hendrickson, 00:02 Page 85 Henjum Goucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO 22 (Pages 82 to 85) THOMAS DICKSON 1 Mr. Radcliffe, (XM)6 Mr. Sixa'th-Gcorgc, 00:14 - 2 Mr. Katz, 00:02 3 . That pursuant to information given to the 4 deposition officer at the time said testimony was . 5 taken, the following includes counsel for all parties 6 ofrecord: 7 FOR THE PLAINTIFFS MR. JOHN SMTTH-GBORGE (By phone) 8 LAW OFFICES OF JOHN SMITH-GEORGE 10231 Warwick Boulevard 9 NewportNews, Virginia 23601 Phone: 757-223-1275 10 FOR DEFENDANT DANA CORPORATION AND THE WITNESS 11 MR. R. THOMAS RADCUFFE, JR. DcHAY<k ELUSTON 12 36 South Charles Street, Suite 1300 Baltimore, Maryland 21201 13 Phone: 410-783-7225 and 14 MS. JANET E. HALES COOPER &WAUNSKI 15 900 Adams Street Toledo, Ohio 43624 16 Phone: 419-241-1200 17 FOR DEFENDANT INTERNATIONAL TRUCK* ENGINE MS. DONEAN SURRATT (By phone) 18 ORGAIN, BELL & TUCKER . 470 Orleans Street 19 Beaumont, Texas 77704-1751 -- Phone: 409-838-6412 20 . FOR DEFENDANT FORD MOTOR COMPANY 21 MR. ARTHUR GRIMALDOD (By phone) BROWN McCARROLL 22 2001 Ross Avenue, Suite 2000 ' Dallas, Texas 75201 23 Phone: 214-999-6100 24 FOR DEFENDANT MOBIL CORPORATION MR. EDWARD A. KALABUS (By phone) 25 DeHAY * ELUSTON 901 Main Sheet, Suite 3500 . 1 Dallas, Texas 75202 Phone: 214-210-2400 2. FOR DEFENDANT DAIMLERCHRYSIER 3 MR CARLOS MORALES (By phene) HAWKINS, PARNELL & THACKSTON 4 4515 ColeAvenue, Suite 550 Dallas, Texas 75205 5 Phone: 214-780-5100 6 FOR DEFENDANTS HONEYWELL INTERNATIONAI^TNG and GENERAL MOTORS CORPORATION 7 MS. AMY G BRIMMAGE (By phone) THOMPSON* KNIGHT 8 1700 Pacific Avenue, Suite 3300 Dallas, Texas 75201 9 Phone 214-969-1700 10 FOR DEFENDANT HENNESSEY INDUSTRIES MR. DAVID TOUN (By phone) 11 GERMER GER7Z . 550 Fannin 12 Beaumont, Texas 77701 Phone 409-654-6700 13 FOR DEFENDANT GUARD-LINE 14 MS. KATHY PARKER (By phone) . DOGAN * WILKINSON 15 . 734 Dehnas Avenue Pascagoula, Mississippi 39S67 16 Phone: 228-762-2272 17 FOR DEFENDANT PACCAR MR JASON M. KATZ (By phone) IB WHTTTENBURG, WHITTENBURG, SCHACTER & HARRIS 600 North Pearl Street 19 Dallas, Texas 75201 Phone 214-999-5700 20 FOR DEFENDANT BORG WARNER 21 MS. CATHY HENDRICKSON (By phone) FLANARY CARTER SCHUBERT 22 900 Jackson Street, Suite 600 Dallas, Texas 75202 23 Phone: 214-3974)333 24 I further certify dud I am neither counsel 25 for, related to, nor employed by any ofIbc parties or Page 86 . 1 attorneys to the action in which this testimony was 2 taken; and further, that I am not financially or 3 otherwise interested in the outcome of this action. 4 Further certification requirements pursuant to 5 Rule 203 of TRCP will be certified to after they have 6 occurred. 7 CERTIFIED to bv me this the day of 8 ,2003. 9 10 REBECCA L. STONEROCK, 11 Registered Professional Reporter, 2501 Oak Lawn Avenue, Suite 435 12 Dallas, Texas 75219 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 88 j Page 87 Page 89 j 1 FURTHER CERTIFICATION UNDER RULE 203 TRCP I 2 The original deposition was/was not returned 1 3 to the deposition officer on 4 If returned, the attached Changes and ;j j 5 Signature page contains any changes and the reasons | 6 therefor; 7 If returned, the original deposition was 8 delivered to , Custodial Attorney; 9 That $ is the deposition officer's 10 charges to Plaintiffs for preparing the original | 1 I 11 deposition transcript and any copies of exhibits; 12 That the deposition was delivered in 13 accordance with Rule 203.3, and that a copy of this 14 certificate was served on all parties shown herein on 15 and filed with the Clerk. j | j 16 Certified to bv me this davof 1 17 . 2003. 18 REBECCA L. STONEROCK, 1 19 Registered Professional Reporter, 2501 Oak Lawn Avenue, Suite 435 j j 20 Dallas, Texas 75219 j 21 22 1 23 j S '1 Henjum Goucher Reporting Services 1-888-656-DEPO 23 (Pages 86 to 89)