Document KRMv2L55qZdQxZQjYjXD6E5Dw

FILE NAME Owens Illinois OWILL DATE 1980 Aug 19 DOC OWILL085 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION Detailed Timeline and Notes Taken on the Deposition of Everett Shuman by Barry Castleman DEPOSITION OUTLINE OF EVERETT C. SHUMAN Deposition taken August 19 1980 State College PA Discusses his wife's physical health and what he needs to do to care for her 77 years old Has been retired 12 years Grade school and high school in Milwaukee University of Wisconsin at Madison and obtained a degree in civil engineering in 1924 and Master's degree in civil engineering in 1926. After graduation became employed by the Portland Cement Association Research Laboratory Chicago Held that position from 1926 to 1938 1938 to 1941 was Head of Civil Engineering at Louis Institute in Chicago 1941 joined the research laboratory of the North Atlantic Division of Army Engineers at West Point And then his location was moved to Mount Vernon New York where he continued to the war effort In 1944 research in concrete as applied he joined Illinois Glass Company at Berlin NJ as a research engineer in the develop- - ment of calcium silicate thermal insulation From 1944 to 1950 he was located at the Berlin Plant engaged in research and development of calcium silicate 1950 was moved to home office in Toledo where he was Director of Research of the Division Was also employed at Toledo as a consultant to the sales department until 1958 when the Kaylo Division was bought by Corning Fiberglass Corporation From 1958 until 1961 he was employed one year in Toledo and two yearisn New York by Corning Fiberglass In 1961 joined Penn State University in the Institute for Building Research in the College of Engineering where he remained until retirement at age 65 in 1968 First became aware of thermal insulation that contained asbestos quite early because pieces I would build involved insulation and insulated with materials that were on of equipment that the equipment was the market at that time primarily 85 mag First became involved in insulating of heating equipment when a dryer for the drying of concrete aggregates at the Portland Cement Association was insulated p.11 p.17 p.18 p.19 p.19 21 Says that he believes Illinois Glass Company began making asbestos containing insulation products in 1943 and he learned that from John Seldon the man who hired Shumann for Illinois At the time he joined Illinois as a research engineer he was aware of whatever thermal insulations were on the market and would get samples or would have people get us samples and then from those samples he learned that several did contain asbestos The principal insulation product containing asbestos was 85 mag and there were several manufacturers that made the products such as Manville G.B.Mattison Ehret and others There were two others that he was aware of that made calcium silicate One was Pavco in California and Rubberoid which was located was another that made their in Gloucester insulation out NJ And there of almost entirely African asbestos under the tradename of Unibestos He claims that other containing products had' about 20 by way of asbestos fiber Claims that Superex had about 20 by weight of asbestos and that Unibestos had about 80 to 90 by weight of asbestos Talks about asbestos insulating cement From titm o te ime he was in the field and actually saw asbestos insulation being used and describes manner in which asbestos insulating cement was used Describes manner in which 85 mag was used in the field Describes the components of Kaylo Says that over a period of time Kaylo contained 18 by weight of asbestos Describes the wet slurry process by which Kaylo was made Describes the difference between hydrous calcium silicate insulation and 85 mag insulation Says that hydrous calcium silicate would insulate up to 1200 85 mag up to 450 Describes the Shuman joined sales and marketing of Kaylo Illinois Could fill in 1944 when small orders Claims that Kaylo is less dusty than because it isa stronger product and fryable as other materials other materials therefore not as p.30 p 32 Manville \ Claims that Illinois got all of its asbestos from Johns While he was at Berlin from 1944 to 1949 he claims he was never made aware of any health hazard with the inhalation of asbestos fibers associated Says in the 1949-50 period Manville facturing thermobestos a hydrous calcium product began manu- silicate While in the field used by insulation tools for Kaylo as he observed workers and toolosf trade that were the workers used the same for other materials While at Illinois he claimed there was an to find a substitute for the asbestos it was the highest priced ingredient and kaylo attempt because Says Illinois tried glass fibers mineral wool and organic materials such as bagasse and wood fibers case And he says we knew if there ever was a time that we'd have to abandon the asbestos that organic fibers would work In 1958 when he became employed by Corning he was used in the sales department as a consultant to help the sales people and of course with the acquisition many of the sales people weren't entirely familiar with kaylo and its properties So I would help any of the sales people or the sales offices that requested help as a consultant On occasion he would contact contractors directly Claims that in his capacity as Manager of Engineering Services for Corning Fiberglass he never received any complaints about the dustiness of Kaylo products Discusses solubility in connection with the asbestos insulation business and talks about it being relevant in terms of accidential wetting of the material Compares solubility of calcium silicate to 85 mag Note argument that can be made to jury that 85 mag would be soluble in the lungs whereas calcium silicate would not be soluble in the lungs When Shuman began at Illinois he initially reported to John Seldon and later reported to Mr. U.E. Bowes who P.38 39 was Director of Research of Illinois Says he first began reporting to Mr. Bowes a few months after he began with Illinois in 1944. In other words before to Mr. 1945 he Bowes was Mr. reportinags a research engineer Bowes was Director of Research for . the entire Illinois Glass Company He reported to Mr. Bowes continually until Mr. Bowes became ill and it would be in the later 1940's and then a Mr. Tom Collins became in charge of the Kaylo Division and then Shuman reported to Tom Collins Mr. offices were located in Toledo Between 1944 until the late 1940's Shuman reported directly to Mr. Bowes and got assignments directly from Mr. Bowes Between 1945 and 1947 Mr. Shuman was Berlin NJ plant manager In 1950 Shuman went to Toledo as Director of Research for the Kaylo Division of Illinois He believes there was a Director of Research for the entire Owens- Illinois Company in 1950 but cannot remember his name Between 1950 until 1958 his position as Director of Research for the Kaylo Division did not change and his position also included his consulting to the sales department Between 1950 and 1958 Shuman would travel from Toledo to Berlin NJ about twice a month He is familiar with Saranac Laboratories and can't remember when he first became familiar with it It was explained to Shuman that the company had a policy of being careful in its plant to avoid any hazards that it could avoid So they employed the called Saranac Laboratory which he understands it was a large industrial research laboratory that looked into hazards in plants Illinois had employed them for a number of years as I understood it Shuman arranged for a sample of Kaylo dust to be sent to Saranac but he never went to Saranac personally In between 1947 and 1949 he caused Kaylo dust to be sent to a recent deposition did Saranac he ever Laboratory see written Not until results of analysis done on Kaylo dust by Saranac However prior thereto he had heard verbal reports of the results of analysis or testing of dust from Mr. William Hazard During the whole period that Shuman was employed by Illinois Hazard was checking on plant operations Bill Hazard's function wasn't to tell us how to do it but what he was concerned with was the result If he Poy P.40 43 43 45 felt that the condition in a certain area was undesirable he would say this it would have to be changed And then we would change it and he would check to see if we had the change , The installations we were doing all along because that was part of the plan as to minimize the amount of dust that was in the area and the purpose for trying to minimize the amount in the of dust in the area was because industry that dust was a hazard it was recognized regardless of what the dust might be Describes the Sayreville NJ Illinois Kaylo Plant for making roof tile and describes in detail the wet slurry process by which the product is manufactured The end asbestos that went into the product at was the same as the asbestos that came the out mixing of the product at the finished end After the product was removed from the molds it was initially hauled by carts but later conveyors were installed and the conveyors were installed in 1948 or 49 Respirators were available all throughout the plant The man handling the tiles after they were taken out of the molds and either carried to the shaping room or put on a conveyor belt created dust to a small extent because you see the product then had been reacted so it wasn't dusty in the sense of a cloud of dust because there were no loose fibers or maybe I should see particles that would create dust But like everything else if you bumped it a little particles of dust might fly out But it was not considered to be a dusty operation One was able to see dust in the air at that operation only momentarily if something had bump it point of happened the to He visited the Sayreville NJ Illinois facility and observed the production line in operation and first observed the facility while it was being constructed And after the plant was in operation he visited it periodically and observed the production process The processes were essentially the same for the Kaylo process in Berlin NJ and Sayreville NJ in principals they were identical a 49 | 49 53 At the point of the operation when the product was being handled by workers after removal from the he would say there was less dust generated at mold Sayreville than the equivalent process at the Berlin NJ plant The finishing room is where the product as it came from the molds was taken and then whatever was necessary to end up with the sizes that were desired was accomplished and The then the product was packaged product was manufactured into in cartons for shipping the desired size by use of saws or sanders 46 When the product was saweidt generated dust and dust collecting equipment was installed in that area After the product was sawed it was handled by workers who placed it in cartons and that handling process did not particularly generate dust There would be somebody might what would local or localized dust generated where rub the finished product but it was not call a cloud of dust or dusty area per se Depending upon the destination of the finished product it was shipped by truck or by boxcar And there were workers at Berlin NJ whose job it was to load the boxed Kaylos onto boxcars and that would be at the shipping room In the finishing room at Sayreville there was no sawing only sanding on the top surface because from the autoclave the top surface of the Kaylo roofing tile would be rough There were dust collectors all around the finishing room where the sanding was going on The finished Kaylo roof tile was put on pallets because they were large pieces and it was easier to work with the product in the field when it was shipped in pallets He says the Sayreville plant went on line in about 1948 David Innes was the Plant Manager at Sayreville Between 1944 and 1949 Mr. Hazard sampled the air to test the dust concentration in the air at Berlin NJ This would usually occur when there were changes being made and Hazard would check an area where a change was made to see what effect that had on the dust concentration With regard to the frequency with which he communicated with Mr. Bowes while reporting to Mr. Bowes between 1944 and 1949 it was highly variable and it might be frequent and there might be a lull in between In addition of course since I was reporting to him I would mail him monthly activity report as was done for all departments The monthly activity report would discuss things that were physically under way such as research and develop- ment or something that happened in the field that was unusual And he did not report to Mr. visits that William Hazard had made to Bowes about the Berlin any NJ plant because he presumed that Mr. Bowes was aware of what Mr. Hazard was doing Mr. Shuman in return received a few reports or letters periodically from Mr. Bowes The nature of written correspondence he would receive | from Mr. Bowes was in the line of inquiry or suggestions as to something that might be investigated He is asked if health hazards he ever discussed with Mr. Bowes any that might be associated with inhalation of asbestos dust and fibers and he says this would come up as a routine thing because he was aware that the plant was improving its operating facilities and that we had been working with Mr. Hazard so if he had some specific question he might ask it . But he presumed that work was under way as had been planned p.54 That would include asbestos related health hazards among other things But then says he we didn't know anything about the significance of the inhalation of asbestos and he says we refers to the Berlin operation Shuman learned from Bill aratory's research which cribed as asbestosis Hazard about the found a reaction Saranac Labthat was des- He would have had these the early 50's probably discussions with 1952 or 1953 Mr. Hazard in Based upon what he saw in the field there was no change in Kaylo before 1958 or after 1958 He was a fulltime employee of Corning Fiberglass from 1958 until 1961 To the extent that there was something that had been prepared by the Sales Department regarding a catalogue or the drafting of product catalogues Shuman might be asked to check over what had been put together to make sure that there was nothing technically wrong in what had been done While employed by Corning Fiberglass Shuman reported was to Mr. H.T. Williams Mr. Williams a sales manager for industrial insulations There was usually a monthly sales 61 meeting that Shuman would attend and the meetings were conducted by Mr. H.T. Williams Periodically there was avice president who attended these monthly meetings but Shuman cannot remember his name After the early 1950's information he learned about some of the results of the Saranac studies with Kaylo and asbestos reaction he learned no additionalinformation | about potential health hazards associated with inhalation of asbestos or Kaylo And he received no information from Mr. Hazard in that regard During the period he was employed by Illinois he was acquainted with Dr. Shook who was the medical director for Illinois Dr. Shook was the medical director for Owens Illinois when Shuman started in 1944. Shook later became ill and Shuman can't remember what year it was that he dropped out of active service Shuman had no occasion to see Shook other than Shook's administration of the routine ray program for all em- ployees And Shuman never had any discussions with Dr. Shook regarding potential health hazards associated with inhalation of asbestos fiber It was important to Shuman to see how the Kaylo product was being used in the field and it was important to know this so that he could make any changes or alterations in the manufacturing process to make it was important to know where it a better would be product used and And under what conditions it would be used p.60 And when asked if it would be fair to say that it's important to know whether or not a product for example Kaylo can be used by applicators of the product safely and without hazards to themselves he says that would be implied that we were concerned of how the applicators would use it and the concern was for among other reasons the safetoyf the applicators I asked him to assume as a fact that in 1948 Saranac Laboratory wrote a letter to Illinois telling Owens Illinois that Kaylo inhalation in guinea pigs caused asbestosis and should be handled as an industrially hazardous product After asking Shuman to assume the existence of the 1948 Saranac Letter I asked him if it would have made a difference to him in his development to have the information and the only of the answer Kaylo product he makes is 62-64 p.64 66 p.67 that the only way I would make a change is if the orders came down from top management And when asked him 62 a for him to make change in the product he would have in the ordinary chain of command in communication Owens- Illinois would have received an order from Mr. Bowes to do so and Shuman says he would follow whatever he was asked to do and says the person who asked whom he reported Mr. that when him to do Bowes he was asked them was the to do things person to I asked him about exhibit ll article published by him in the Petroleum Engineer Magazine which April is a 1952 copy of edition an of He's asked what foundation or research he had available to him to indicate that hydrous calcium silicate is non- toxic and easy on the hands and his answer is the word toxic there as I were was brought up in chemistry no known poisons in calcium was poison and silicate and the lime and silica had reacted so that they were a calcium silicate not either lime or silica So there was no known poison substances in the material And I asked him if it was his understanding in April of 1952 that asbestos was toxic and he says that's right asbestos was toxic meaning poison And it is Shuman's understanding that poison is something that reacts chemically asbestos did or people in And in 1952 it was his understanding that not react chemically in any way with animals handling it and he says that the effect was more that was mechanical than chemical his understanding in 1952 p.65 At least Shuman is handed Exhibit OI which is a page document dated February 12 1943 signed by U.E. Bowes Director of Research and p.66 Shuman says that he believes that the signature is Mr. Bowes And with regard to Exhibit OI Shuman agrees that on first page of the document it looks like a reproduction an Illinois letterhead and that is the type of letterhead that he was familiar with while working with Owens Illinois during that time the of Shuman says he did correspond with Dr. Vorwald The correspondence with Vorwald had Saranac a sample of Kaylo dust with research to do which with sending to conduct And Mr. January Shuman never became aware in a report dated 30 1954 to Illinois of Dr. Vorwald describing Kaylo as having because of its asbestos contents toxic properties and he never saw that and if he about had seen that it may have changed his belief Kaylo being toxic Yes I presume I certainly would have weighed the comments By 1960 Shuman still claims that he had no understanding or belief that asbestos was a potentially toxic substance Howevetro me it meant that it was like silicosis but somewhat different Shuman identifies Exhibit OCF which is Corning Products Catalogue dated October an Owens 1960 Exhibit OCF contains certain technical information regarding Kaylo pipe covering and that is the type of technical information about which he would have been consulted by the sales department in Corning usually And the technical information contained in Exhibit OCF are data that had been accumulated by Illinois before Corning I presume these are the same data that took it over so Illinois had used Mr. Williams H.T.Williams had been an Kaylo Division of Owens Illinois before sales manager job at Owens Corning employee of the he took over the A Mr. Oscar Burch was the person who became director of research succeeding Mr. Bowes He denies that he has any knowledge about a Mr. M.D. Burch who worked at Corning and denies any knowledge of Corning Fiberglas having a position entitled Director of Personnel and Industrial Relations He knew Mr. Harold Boechenstein as President of Owens- Corning Fiberglas And he identifies Mr. W.P. Zimmerman as one of the officials of Corning Fiberglas and met him occasionally The name although Mr. Edward C. it does sound Ames does not ring any bells familiar and the fact that the name may have been connected to Public Relations Manager in Corning Fiberglas doesn't jog his memory The name Ira Brought does not ring any bells for him W.J. Stewart was with Owens Illinois but doesn't know if he was with Illinois in June of 1956. At one time he -10- 76 p.77 was General Manager of the Kaylo worked for Illinois at the Division same time And they Identifies Exhibit OI as 1956 and it bears the name a document dated June 12 E.C. Shuman Shuman doesn't recollect that being a memorandum he received during his employment with Illinois and remembers nothing about the contents p.73 Says that in June Illinois 1956 Mr. Hazard was still working for The name J.M. Robinson does not ring a bell Claims that the Kaylo manufactured at Berlin contained only chrysotile asbestos was taken from the Kaylo and that plant in when a sample of dust Berlin NJ and sent to Dr. Vorwald the dust samples would not have contained amosite Says he does not remember ever meeting Dr. Gerritt Schepers At the Berlin NJ plant they actually used equipmenitn the facility It was applied initially were not members of the asbestos but later on they were Kaylo to insulate by workers who workers union The workers who applied the Kaylo at Berlin plied respirators if there was a need to NJ were Whether sup- or not there was a need to depended on where the insulation work was being done If it was in an enclosed area the respirators would supplied when the where it might be be supplied And respirators were occasion arose meaning closed areas dusty and those closed areas would be pieces of equipment that were alongside of walls or places where it wasn't readily ventilated naturally And most indoor uses for applications of Kaylo at the Berlin plant would involve a situation where the person applying it would be provided with a respirator In the mid to late Company was Toledo like a zip code 40's the address of Illinois Glass 1 Ohio and the 1 was a postal designation Shuman doesn't recollect the name Mr. H.H. Renn He identifies Mr. M.M. for Illinois Olander Has no as being Director recollection of a of Personnel Mr. A.C. Hirth -11- p.80 81 82 In the early to mid 40's the name of Mr. was Josephine Grice Bowes secretary Says in 1950 or 1951 he was never consulted with regard to putting together a brochure about the health aspects of Kaylo insulation Claims that a Santocell product it was never made by Illinois by Manville and thinks was made After Hazard took samples of atmospheric dust Berlin NJ plant Hazard would report back to about whether the value was too high and that better pick equipment from the Shuman they needed The annual be read chest rays were sent to Saranac Lake to He says just once did he send Kaylo dust from Berlin to Saranac and that the initial shipment was a mistake and they had sent block and then Vorwald pointed out that they wanted dust so or his secretary that dust was sent That was the only shipment made -12-