Document K6DzV1rN2zg24Y4VbMVZGRNOo

FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 2 NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA 3 EASTERN DIVISION 4 5 WALTER OWENS, et al., ) 6 Plaintiffs, ) 7 8 vs. ) ) CIVIL ACTION NO. 9 ) CV-P-440-E 10 MONSANTO COMPANY, ) 11 Defendant. ) 12 13 DEPOSITION OF: CARL SMITH 14 15 In accordance with Rule 5 (d) of The 16 Alabama Rules of Civil Procedure, as Amended, 17 effective May 15,1988,1, TAMMY JENNINGS 18 GREGORY, am hereby delivering to MR. LARRY WRIGHT 19 the original transcript of the oral testimony 20 taken on the 27th day of October, 1999, along 21 with exhibits. 22 Please be advised that this is the same and 23 not retained by the court reporter, nor filed OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036838 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 2 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 with the Court. 2 The deposition of Carl Smith was taken 3 before Tammy R. Jennings Gregory, commencing at 4 3:00 P.M. on the 27th day of October, 1999, by 5 the Plaintiffs, at the law offices of Fite & 6 Miller, Anniston, Alabama pursuant to the 7 stipulations set forth herein. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txtf8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036839 22 23 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 3 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 APPEARANCES 2 3 Appearing For The Plaintiffs: 4 MITHOFF & JACKS, LLP 5 By: Larry Wright, Esquire 6 and Laura Ruth, Esquire 7 111 Congress Avenue, Suite 1010 8 Austin, Texas 78701 9 10 Appearing For The Defendant: 11 LIGHTFOOT, FRANKLIN & WHITE 12 By: Adam Peck, Esquire 13 TheClark Building 14 400 20th Street North 15 Birmingham, Alabama 35203-3200 16 17 SMITH, HELMS, MULLISS & MOORE 18 By: Michael E. Kelly, Esquire 19 300 North Greene Street, Suite 1400 OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036840 20 Greensboro, North Carolina 27401 21 22 Court Reporter: 23 Tammy R. Jennings Gregory 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 4 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 INDEX 2 3 Witness: Carl Smith 4 Stipulations...........................page 5 5 Examination by Mr. Wright............. page 7 6 Reporter's Certificate................ page 38 7 8 9 10 11 12 EXHIBITS 13 (No exhibits were marked for identification, 14 admitted, or attached as exhibits hereto.) 15 16 17 OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036841 18 19 20 21 22 23 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 5 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 STIPULATIONS 2 3 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED by and 4 between the parties through their respective 5 counsel that the deposition of Carl Smith may be 6 taken before Tammy R. Jennings Gregory, at the 7 law offices of Fite & Miller, Anniston, Alabama 8 on the 27th day of October, 1999. 9 10 11 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that 12 the signature to and the reading of the 13 deposition by the witness is waived, the 14 deposition to have the same force and effect as 15 if full compliance had been had with all laws and OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036842 16 rules of court relating to the taking of 17 depositions. 18 19 20 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that 21 it shall not be necessary for any objections to 22 be made by counsel to any questions, except as to 23 form or leading questions, and that counsel for 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 6 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 the parties may make objections and assign 2 grounds at the time of trial or at the time said 3 deposition is offered in evidence or prior 4 thereto. 5 6 7 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that 8 the notice of filing of the deposition is waived. 9 10 11 12 13 OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036843 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 7 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 STATE OF ALABAMA, CITY OF ANNISTON, 2 OCTOBER 27, 1999, 3 3:00 PM., 4 5 CARL SMITH, 6 having been first duly sworn, was examined and 7 testified as follows: 8 9 COURT REPORTER: Usual stipulations 10 okay? 11 MR. WRIGHT: Yes. OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036844 12 MR. PECK: Yes. 13 14 EXAMINATION BY MR. WRIGHT: 15 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Smith. Thank you for 16 coming down and visiting with us. Do you 17 still work at Monsanto? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Did you retire? 20 A. Retired December 31st,'97. 21 Q. What was your first j ob at Monsanto? 22 A. Laborer. Worked in the labor gang. 23 When you're hired in at that 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 8 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 particular period, you were hired in in the 2 labor gang. 3 Q. What year was that? 4 A. October 24th, 1966. 5 Q. And did you work in any particular area in 6 the labor gang initially? 7 A. Worked in all areas in the labor gang. 8 Cleaning up, cutting grass, just labor work. 9 Q. Okay. Did you ever clean tank cars -- OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036845 10 A. No. 11 Q. -- in the aroclor department? Was that 12 different laborers that did that, or did you 13 just luck out? 14 A. I believe that came under shipping laborers. 15 I think what you call maintenance laborers. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. There's two types of laborers. 18 Q. My understanding is there were also aroclor 19 -- what people are calling aroclor labors? 20 A. (Witness nods head.) 21 Q. You were not one of those? 22 A. I believe that's another group of production 23 laborers. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 9 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. All right. Maintenance laborer makes sense 2 judging from the duties you were talking 3 about. How long did you stay in that 4 position? 5 A. Approximately six months. I'm not just 6 absolutely sure, but it was close to half a 7 year. OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036846 8 Q. How old were you at that time? 9 A. Twenty-six. 10 Q. And what was your next job? 11 A. What they call a production operator in the 12 parathion department. 13 Q. How long did you stay in that job? 14 A. I was in there from--now, off and on until 15 the latter part of 1969. During this 16 particular time, there were cutbacks, one of 17 those particular times I went down to the 18 shipping department and worked in the 19 shipping department. 20 I believe actually two times during 21 that period. But I was laid off in 1969, 22 moved to Florida, came back to work in 23 December of '74 back in the parathion 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 10 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 department. 2 Q. Just out of curiosity, what did you do in 3 Florida? 4 A. I worked for a heavy equipment dealer. 5 Q. Where? OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036847 6 A. Tampa. 7 MR. WRIGHT: Off the record. 8 (Discussion off the record.) 9 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Okay. You came back in'74? 10 A. '74. 11 Q. What job did you come back to? 12 A. Back into production operator in parathion. 13 Q. Then where did you go, or how long were you 14 in that job? 15 A. I believe until probably the latter part of 16 '77, and then I moved into a new area they 17 had built called recycle department. And I 18 went up there as an operator, and then as a 19 chief operator. 20 Q. How long did you stay -- 21 A. Until -- well, 1980. And then I became 22 foreman of the recycling department. 23 Q. Did you stay in the recycle department until 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 11 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 you retired? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Okay. OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036848 4 A. Well, they shut down -- '86,1 guess, is when 5 they shut down the parathion department in 6 that area, and I then became equipment 7 specialist, project specialist for the 8 decontamination and dismantling of parathion 9 and recycle department. 10 Then I went into operations in PNP 11 department, and this was in '88,1 believe it 12 was. 13 Q. And how long did you stay in that job? 14 A. Okay. I was classified then as a relief 15 operator, and I was between PNP and the 16 shipping department. 17 Worked most of the time in PNP to 18 '96, then I became the supervisor in the PNP 19 department until I retired. 20 MR. WRIGHT: Let's go off the 21 record for a second. 22 (Discussion off the record.) 23 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Going back then to your 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 12 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 first tour with Monsanto, did you ever go to OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036849 2 the landfill during those years? 3 A. Not in the -- well, yes. I thought you was 4 talking about particular labor -- yes, I did. 5 When I was cut back from the parathion 6 department into -- 7 Q. -- the shipping department? 8 A. -- the shipping department, shipping 9 laborers. 10 Q. How long were you in the shipping department? 11 I got the impression it wasn't very long. 12 A. Very short. Six weeks. Not long at all. 13 Q. But during that period as part of the 14 shipping department, you'd go to the 15 landfill? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. Can you describe -- well, let's see. That 18 would have been '69, you said, I believe? 19 A. Earlier than '69. Probably '67, '68. 20 Q. Okay. Can you describe the landfill in '67 21 or '68? 22 A. The best I recall it we went through a locked 23 gate. It was a fenced area, and I think it 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 13 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036850 1 was three of us rode up in a big old flatbed 2 Chevrolet truck with about four pallets or 3 four drums each slid onto this truck. 4 And there was a huge hole in the 5 ground, and we backed up to a certain stop 6 where the truck wouldn't go in, and our job 7 was to get up on the truck and roll these 8 particular drums into this hole. 9 Q. Okay. What was in the hole? 10 A. Just other drums, just -- 11 Q. Anything besides drums that you remember? 12 A. Not that I recall at all. 13 Q. What was in the drums that you were throwing 14 in there? 15 A. I think what they call bottoms, bottoms from 16 the aroclor department where they drummed out 17 bottoms fromprobably residue from a still 18 operation. I'm not really sure, but I think 19 that's what they called it was bottoms from 20 aroclor. 21 Q. Could you tell if it was liquid or solid? 22 A. As far as I determined, it was solids. 23 Q. Okay. Was that the only thing that you took 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 14 OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036851 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 up there when you went up there? 2 A. In the parathion department, they have an 3 operation they call filter press cleaning 4 that consists of this screening coat atlocks 5 (phonetic), I believe. That's probably not 6 even what it is. 7 But anyway, this is granule or 8 powder that coats the screens, and when you 9 clean those filters, you clean that off and 10 put it in drums, andit was taken up there 11 also. 12 Q. And those are the only two things you 13 remember? 14 A. That's all I can remember. 15 Q. There was anybody else up there when y'all 16 would go up there? 17 A. A lot of times the contractor was up there. 18 Q. Do you remember who the contract was? 19 A. It may come to me in a minute, but I can't - 20 it was out here on West 10th Street. 21 Q. If it comes to you, just stop me and say I've 22 just remembered. Something concrete or -- 23 A. Anniston Concrete was the name of the OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036852 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 15 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 company. 2 Q. Do you remember who the -- any of the people 3 who were behind it? 4 A. It will come to me in a minute. 5 MR. WRIGHT: Mike, you remember 6 don't you? 7 MR. KELLY: McGinnis. 8 THE WITNESS: Ed McGinnis. 9 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Anybody else besides Mr. 10 McGinnis that you remember -- 11 A. That's really the only one. 12 Q. -- that worked up there? 13 A. He was the owner of the company. 14 Q. Was Mr. McGinnis up there himself or some of 15 his workers? 16 A. Just some of his workers. I was familiar 17 with Ed McGinnis and some of his worked from 18 my prior job working with Thompson Tractor, 19 and he had heavy equipment. 20 Q. Is he still alive? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Is the company still in business? OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036853 23 A. As far as I know, it's not. I think it went 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 16 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 out when he died. 2 Q. Do you remember hearing about events where 3 parathion would kill fish downstream in 4 Choccolocco Creek? 5 A. I believe that, yes. 6 Q. What do you remember about that? 7 A. The only thing I remember--and if I was 8 there, I really don't -- if I was, it was my 9 first year there, my first time being there 10 -- some of the parathion waste was released 11 into the stream into Snow Creek, I guess, 12 that killed the fish in Choccolocco. 13 Q. Do you know how it was released, what 14 happened? 15 A. No, I don't. 16 Q. Did that happen other times? 17 A. As far as I know, it did not. 18 Q. Now, I've heard, and I've seen in the 19 documents a lawsuit by somebody called 20 B-a-s-s, Bass. I assume it was a wildlife or OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036854 21 fishing organization-- 22 A. Right. 23 Q. -- against Monsanto over the Anniston plant. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 17 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Did you hear about that? 2 A. No, I didn't know that. 3 Q. Okay. Do you know what Bass is? 4 A. Well, it's 5 Q. Have you heard of it? 6 A. Yes, it's Bass Fishing Association. 7 Q. Where are they located, do you know? 8 A. Well, I think the original head quarters was 9 in -- if it's the National organization -- 10 was in Montgomery. 11 Q. Are they still in business? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Though you've heard about theorganization, 14 you don't remember hearing about that suit? 15 A. I don't remember that. Sure don't. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. That's a National organization with small 18 units. OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036855 19 Q. Chapters? 20 A. Chapters is what my -- 21 Q. Is there a Calhoun County Chapter? 22 A. I would assume. 23 Q. Just out of curiosity, are you a member? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 18 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. I used to belong to it. Not anymore. 2 MR. PECK: Bass Masters 3 Tournaments. 4 MR. WRIGHT: They sponsor those? 5 MR. PECK: Uh-huh (indicating yes). 6 Q. (By Mr. Wright) I think you show up in some 7 of these safety plans. Were you involved in 8 the safety committees and things? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Tell me about that, if you would, about your 11 involvement. 12 A. Well, during operations or during when I was 13 in operations, each department had their 14 safety committees, and I was on a different 15 number of those committees just as a member. 16 And when you were the foreman or OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036856 17 supervisor, you were the chairman of the 18 particular safety committees for your 19 department. 20 It discussed safety problems; it 21 discussed operational problems, concerns of 22 everything really. 23 Q. So your involvement would have been for many 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 19 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 years basically? 2 A. Right. 3 Q. Let's see. You were gone when the aroclor 4 plant shut down, weren't you? 5 A. Yes, I was. 6 Q. Before you left, had you heard it was going 7 to shut down? 8 A. I didn't -- no, I didn't. I didn't know. 9 Q. So when you left, everything was fine, and 10 when you came back, the whole section was 11 gone? 12 A. There was no aroclor plant, and some of the 13 old operators had bid into or rolled 14 operators into the parathion area. OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036857 15 Q. Did they talk about why the aroclor plant had 16 shutdown? Do you remember any conversations 17 or talk? 18 A. I really can't remember any of that. Sure 19 can't. 20 Q. When is the first time that you heard or 21 recall hearing about PCB contamination being 22 outside of the plant boundaries? 23 A. I believe the first time it was sort of 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 20 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 publicly announced was when they were 2 cleaning this Choccolocco Creek cleanup 3 project that they had down here. 4 Q. Just a few years ago? 5 A. Right. 6 Q. Okay. You don't remember hearing about PCB 7 contamination being outside the plant 8 boundaries before that, the recent publicity? 9 A. No, I don't. I really don't. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. Now, had I worked there, I may have, but that 12 was really not my interest. OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036858 13 Q. I understand. I understand. Did you hear 14 about mercury contamination being outside of 15 the plant boundaries? 16 A. Not -- no, I didn't. I've heard about the 17 mercury being stolen, but- 18 Q. I heard that last week. 19 A. But not any mercury contamination. 20 Q. Did you have your blood tested for PCBs when 21 they offered? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Why don't we take a quick break? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 21 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 (Short recess.) 2 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Were you ever involved in 3 any sampling other than sampling the 4 parathion waste water treatment? 5 A. Other than the -- other than the products in 6 parathion? 7 Q. Yeah. 8 A. The products in parathion and waste treatment 9 in parathion. That's the only sampling. 10 Q. Did you ever spend any time in the lab? OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036859 11 A. No, other than carrying samples is all. 12 Q. Do you know anything about their sampling, 13 either, I guess, sampling of water or waste? 14 A. I knew that we had stations in the plant 15 perimeter and different places where they did 16 sample air and water. 17 Q. Do you know if they ever sampled air for 18 PCBs? 19 A. I do not know. I can't answer that. 20 Q. What do you remember them sampling air for? 21 A. Well, in parathion days, it was -- had a 22 pretty good aroma out there, and they was 23 sampling -- just exactly what for, I really 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 22 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 don't know, but I know they were sampling the 2 air for the different contents to see if we 3 were doing any contamination. 4 Q. Okay. What kind of health concerns do you 5 remember there being at the plant related to 6 any of the chemicals that were used at the 7 plant? For example, I know with parathion, 8 there were cholinesterase -- OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036860 9 A. Right. 10 Q. -- monitoring, and, you know, every now and 11 then somebody would get their cholinesterase 12 inhibited. 13 A. Well, we had a by-product was hydrogen 14 sulfide, and it was a very poisonous gas. 15 Enough of it would kill you. 16 And we used quite a bit of 17 chlorine, chlorine gas. 18 Q. Did anybody ever get injured by the hydrogen 19 sulfide? 20 A. Yes, yes. 21 Q. Did they get overcome to the point where they 22 became unconscious? 23 A. Yes. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 23 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. About how many times did that happen? 2 A. I remember two incidents in my tenure that 3 that did happen. We tried to take all the 4 precautions that we knew existed, you know, 5 to keep that from happening, but I do 6 remember a couple of times. Ruptured disk OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036861 7 broke. 8 Q. Did the men recover? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Came back to work? 11 A. Right. 12 Q. You started to tell me about something else. 13 Chlorine. Any incidents with chlorine? 14 A. Yes, there's been chlorine incidents. I 15 guess one of the main problems that you had 16 with chlorine is you'd get a small leak in a 17 line, and you would walk into it before you 18 realized it, you know, and then you would get 19 the line repaired. 20 We had all the safety equipment, 21 Scott Air Packs, which is self-contained 22 breathing apparatuses, and just regular gas 23 masks, organic vapor gas masks. Everyone had 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 24 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 one, their own personal mask. 2 Q. As a result of the chlorine exposure, was it 3 primarily their lungs got burned? 4 A. Right. It was the lungs and throat. OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036862 5 Q. Anything else you remember? 6 A. It was another bad product that was called 7 intermediate. It was dangerous to your eyes. 8 Q. Which one was that? 9 A. Intermediate. 10 Q. Just called intermediate? 11 A. Called intermediate, right. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. But it was used in the process of making 14 parathion. 15 Q. Was anybody overcome by parathion? 16 A. Well, there was suspicion that it was 17 parathion when a couple of guys got overcome 18 in the tank car. I'm sure you've heard about 19 that. 20 Q. Actually, I didn't hear about that, so might 21 as well. 22 A. Cleaning out a tank car, and -- that had been 23 washed out like we normally wash out a tank 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 25 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 car with soda ash and hot water. And this 2 was in July of -- I don't know what year. OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036863 3 But anyway, they went into the tank 4 to wipe it down before reloading it with 5 either or ethyl or methyl parathion -- I 6 don't know which one -- to be shipped away, 7 and they was overcome with, I guess, 8 parathion poisoning. 9 Q. Did they end up dying? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Oh. Okay. 12 A. No. They made a complete recovery on that, 13 too. 14 Q. They came back to work? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Did they seem as mentally with it as they had 17 before the incident? 18 A. Yes, they were -- full recovery. 19 Q. Anything else you can think of? 20 A. Not really. 21 Q. Okay. Did you ever have any conversations or 22 discussions with the people in the community 23 there around the plant? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 26 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036864 1 A. I did not personally, no. 2 Q. Do you know of anybody that did? 3 A. We always turned -- if they called into the 4 department, we always told them to call the 5 lab. And I believe Gene Arnett took most of 6 the calls. I'm not real sure, but I think he 7 did. Someone in the lab. 8 And as far as I know, he would make 9 an effort to go out in the area to see what 10 it was. 11 Q. Okay. Do you know if he ever talked to the 12 people in the community about PCBs? 13 A. I can't answer that. I don't know. 14 Q. Did anybody ever talk to the people in the 15 community about PCBs to your knowledge? 16 A. To my knowledge, no. 17 Q. Okay. Now, the aroclor area was expanded, 18 and I've gotten varying dates on the 19 expansion, but it was sometime in the '69, 20 '70 21 A. That's real close. 22 Q. -- time frame. 23 A. That's the time that I would say it was. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 27 OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036865 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. That's what I'm going to ask you then because 2 that would have been -- you left about that 3 time? 4 A. (Witness nods head.) Right. 5 Q. And so I was going to ask you if you heard 6 about plans to expand the aroclor department 7 before you left? 8 A. Well, I know that it was, you know, after I 9 came back, it was all this talk -- well, dog 10 gone spend this much money to expand and 11 then, bam, shut it down, you know. 12 I think the expansion wound up 13 being a tank farm, best I recall, maybe 14 adding four different storage tanks across 15 the street right there from what Iremember. 16 Q. Was that done before you left? 17 A. I think it was done going on when I did - 18 when I left. 19 Q. Okay. Do you remember what month you left 20 '69? 21 A. Let's see. It would probably have been 22 around December.November or December. 23 Q. Very end of the year? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] 1-800-888-DEPO 28 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. (Witness nods head.) 2 Q. I can't remember whether I asked you this or 3 not, but what was your understanding of why 4 the aroclor plant shut down? 5 A. Because of aroclor being a suspected 6 carcinogenic is my understanding why it shut 7 down. 8 Q. And that came from people there at Monsanto 9 when you came back? 10 A. Is where I heard that? 11 Q Yes. 12 A. Yes, yes. 13 Q With regard to industrial hygiene, are you 14 familiar with the -- or with any records that 15 are kept on the health and safety -- not the 16 health and safety -- on the health of the 17 Anniston employees? 18 A. All our records, I understand, were kept. 19 I've never encountered the need to have to 20 check and see, but all of our records -- as a 21 matter of fact, I think that was a law that 22 they were supposed to be kept. 23 Q Did you have a physical every year? OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036867 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 29 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Yes, yes. 2 Q. I know they drew blood; right? 3 A. Right. 4 Q. Every time, even in the '60s? 5 A. Yes, it was -- it was about a six-weeks 6 interval -- six-to eight-week interval -- 7 that they drew blood. 8 Q. Now, that was at the parathion department? 9 A. Right, right. 10 Q. I guess I was talking just about in the 11 general physical that you may not -- being a 12 parathion worker most of the time -- 13 A. Well, general physical they also did. 14 Q. Do you know what tests they ran, what things 15 they checked? 16 A. Cholesterol, albumin, the whole list of -- 17 there is a name for that, and I forgot. Just 18 what all the pertinent things that's in your 19 bloodstream. 20 Q. Did they check for liver enzymes, for 21 example? Do you recall that? OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036868 22 A. I believe so, yes. 23 Q. Do you think -- and I'm taxing your memory 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 30 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 now -- do you think they tested for the liver 2 enzymes way back when you first started 3 getting the physicals, or is that something 4 that they added later on? 5 A. I couldn't -- I couldn't answer that. The 6 only thing I remember them changing in 7 physical, so to speak, or the blood is -- if 8 you remember you used to have just one number 9 as a cholesterol, and then they broke it down 10 to the high and the good and the bad, and I 11 do remember them making that change. 12 Q. When you went to the landfill that short 13 period of time, did you only take stuff to 14 one pit? 15 A. As far as I remember, it was in one pit. 16 Q. Okay. Were there other pits around? 17 A. Yes, there were other pits. 18 Q. Were they active? I mean, were people 19 dumping stuff in them at the same time as OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036869 20 y'all were dumping stuff in the pit you were 21 using? And I don't mean the exact same 22 minute. I just mean contemporaneously. 23 A. The best of my recollection, there was a 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 31 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 place where you put scrap, just 2 uncontaminated scrap is a part that I 3 remember. 4 Now, I can't -- that's really -- I 5 didn't make toomany trips up there to tell 6 you the truth. 7 Q. Was the TP incinerator up there? 8 A. No, no. 9 Q. Do you remember when that came? 10 A. It may have came when I was gone in that 11 four-year period too. I never went back to 12 the landfill after I came back. That was 13 really the only time that I'd ever had an 14 occasion -- 15 Q. Could you see the TP from the road or 16 anywhere? 17 A. No. OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036870 18 Q. How did you know it was up there, just heard 19 about it? 20 A. Just talk about it and from photographs of 21 the plant in the area. 22 Q. When would you have seen photographs, or why 23 would you have seen photographs of the plant? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 32 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Well, they were posted throughout the plant, 2 conference rooms. As a matter of fact, we 3 had plant photographs, what it looked like in 4 1930 and 19 -- on down the line. 5 Q. Were they still posted throughout the plant 6 when you left? 7 A. There was one -- there was one in the main 8 conference room. 9 Q. Was that the only one that was left? 10 A. Well, that's the only one--now, when I say, 11 "throughout the plant," I guess that's the 12 only one I mean. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. Just a conference room like this. 15 Q. Did they have several pictures though? OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036871 16 A. No. 17 Q. The reason I'm asking you that is because you 18 said a little while ago that there was 19 pictures of how the plant looked at different 20 times. 21 A. Well, Dan Truitt had one in his office -- Dan 22 Truitt was an accountant -- of a picture of, 23 I believe, in the '30s. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 33 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. And then they used to have a picture of the 3 plant with parathion, aroclor, all of it, and 4 then they upgraded the picture. I remember 5 the plane flying around and taking the 6 pictures, and he upgraded that picture. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. And then they upgraded that picture when they 9 removed parathion. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. That's the pictures I remember. 12 Q. Now, did you actually see those pictures 13 after they were developed? OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036872 14 A. They were for anybody to see. 15 Q. They were--the pictures you were talking 16 about were on the walls? 17 A. Right. 18 Q. Okay. And they were still on the walls when 19 you left? 20 A. As far as I remember, yeah. 21 Q. Do you know if there were ever any pictures 22 made of the aroclor department itself? 23 A. I -- no, I don't. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 34 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. What about a video or a movie or anything 2 like that of any part of the plant for that 3 matter? 4 A. The only video I remember they made, which I 5 never did see, was a safety film about how to 6 handle parathion, a parathion spill. 7 Q. Would that have been in the '70s? 8 A. Yes, yes. 9 Q. Do you know if there were similar films made 10 about other parts of the plant? 11 A. I never did hear about it because it was a OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036873 12 lot of focus on safety in the parathion. I 13 do know that. 14 Q. Okay. Where was that film kept, do you know? 15 A. I have no idea. I don't know. 16 Q. Do you remember who prepared it or -- by 17 "who," I don't mean the person's name 18 necessarily. But was it the safety 19 department or industrial hygiene or the 20 parathion department itself or St. Louis, for 21 that matter? 22 A. I think it was a corporate effort. I don't 23 believe it was just a local -- just a local 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 35 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 film. 2 Q. Okay. Can you think of some people who spent 3 more time at the landfill than you did? 4 A. Well, this gentleman you just interviewed, 5 Jesse Abernathy, did. I thought. 6 Q. Okay. 7 MS. RUTH: Maybe his memory says it 8 all then. 9 MR. PECK: He didn't remember much. OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036874 10 Q. (By Mr. Wright) He didn't remember much. 11 A. There was an Amos Payne -- not Amos Payne. 12 Amos Payne's dead. Amos Mixon. I don't know 13 if that name has ever come up. 14 MR. KELLY: Mixon? 15 THE WITNESS: M-i-x-o-n, with an 16 "M". But I think he's very old and in 17 terrible health right now. 18 He drove one of the skip trucks. 19 There was Sam White, which he's dead. 20 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Is Mr. Mixon still in the 21 area? 22 A. I believe he lives in Jacksonville, but he's 23 -- I think he's got Alzheimer's. Him and 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 36 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 his wife both is in bad shape. 2 Q. You mentioned somebody else. 3 A. Sam White. Sam's dead. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. Abney, Johnny Abney. He worked in shipping 6 along that time. 7 Q. Is he still alive? OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036875 8 A. He's still living, but I don't know -- I 9 don't know what kind of -- he's pretty old 10 himself. 11 Q. Is he still in the area? 12 A. I think so. 13 MR. PECK: A-b-n-e-y. 14 THE WITNESS: Right. 15 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Anybody else you can think 16 of? 17 A. Another guy that worked in shipping was Homer 18 Broadwell, B-r-o-a-d-w-e-1-1. 19 MR. PECK: Deceased or alive? 20 THE WITNESS: He's still alive. 21 He's about eighty-five years old. 22 Cecil Beard's dead. Let's see. 23 Who else? I really can't think of anybody 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 37 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 right now that's still alive and kicking. 2 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Okay. Thank you for your 3 time, sir. 4 A. Okay. 5 OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036876 6 (Deposition concluded at 3:40 p.m.) 7 FURTHER THE DEPONENT SAITH NOT. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 38 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS CERTIFICATE 3 STATE OF ALABAMA ) OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036877 4 CALHOUN COUNTY ) 5 6 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the above and 7 foregoing transcript was taken down by me in 8 stenotype, and the questions and answers thereto 9 were transcribed by means of computer-aided 10 transcription, and that the foregoing represents 11 a true and correct transcript of the testimony 12 given by said witness. 13 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither 14 of counsel, nor of any relation to the parties to 15 the action, nor am I anywise interested in the 16 result of said cause. 17 18 19 20 21 TAMMY R. JENNINGS GREGORY Notary Public, State of Alabama 22 MY COMMISSION EXPIRES: 9-12-2001 23 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO OWENS 05-15-1988 Smith, Carl.txt[8/22/2017 4:10:11 PM] HARTOLDMON0036878