Document K5kw9nyOJ5rpwvEXr9LK700

FILE NAME Keene KNE DATE 1983 Aug 29 DOC KNE005 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION Legal - Deposition of Dwight Lord Satterthwaite with BC notes 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 22 23 24 25 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA NORFOLK AND NEWPORT NEWS DIVISIONS In Re All Asbestos Cases : C.P. 77-1 Oral Deposition of DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE taken pursuant to notice at 427 Norma Road Ambler Pennsylvania on Monday August 29 1983 beginning at approximately 5:15 p.m. before Brigitte A. Strain Registered Professional Reporter Public there being present APPEARANCES GLASSER AND GLASSER BY RONALD F. SCHMIDT 504 Plaza One ESQUIRE Norfolk Virginia Phone 804 625-6787 Representing the Plaintiffs | 1 BALLARD SPAHR ANDREWS AND INGERSOLL i BY ANDREA HOLTZMAN DRUCKER ESQUIRE ! 30 South 17th Street 20th Floor | Philadelphia Pennsylvania 19103 Phone 215 564-1800 ; Representing the Raymark Industries | UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL DIVISION TORTS BRANCH BY LINDA A. HALPERN ESQUIRE 521 12th Street N.W. Room 504 Washington D.C. 20530 Phone 202 724-7460 Representing | | 40G MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT DCAONTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 K. APPEARANCES cont LaBRUM AND DOAK BY JOHN F. LEDWITH ESQUIRE 700 IVB Building Philadelphia Pennsylvania Pennsylvania Phone 215 561-4400 19103 Representing Keene Corporation Corporation 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 400 MARKET STREET OHU ADELPHIA ADELPHIA PA 1910E KNIPES COURT COURT COURT DEPARTING DEPARTING SERVICE SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 INDEX INDEX WITNESS DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE BY MR SCHMIDT BY MR LEDWITH 4 -- 1 25 45 1 -- 58 BY MS HALPERN = 35 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COHEN SQUDZ SQUSD QUDZ Z SQUDZ DEOODTINE DEOODTINE SERVICE SERVICE DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 4 THE COURT REPORTER Any stipulations MR LEDWITH It's my understanding that all objections are reserved until the time of trial except as to the form of the question MR SCHMIDT That is correct 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 It is hereby stipulated and agreed by and among counsel for the respective parties that reading and signing are waived and that all objections except as to the form of questions be reserved until the time of trial and that any objection by one defense counsel will inure to the benefit of all other defense counsel present DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE after having been first duly sworn was examined and testified as follows DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR SCHMIDT 0 Good morning For the record sir could you 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 kK 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 5 state your full name and present home address A. Right Dwight first name W Middle name Lord R Last name Satterthwaite W Satterthwaite Q What is your present home address sir A. 427 Norma Road Ambler Pennsylvania Q. And you have been living in Ambler for quite some time A. How long Q. Couple of years right A. Two years Q. Sir when you start working for Ehret Magnesia Manufacturing Company A. 1936 Q And when did you stop working for the company A. 1975 Q. Do you recall what the name was on your payroll check when you left the company what the name of the company was at that time MRS SATTERTHWAITE State the companies you worked for that's all You started with Ehret and then it became I think I'll leave It will be best Don't worry about anything If it confuses 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COHEN COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 K 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 6 you at all just say I don't know or I can't remember That's all Whereupon Mrs. Satterthwaite left the room BY MR SCHMIDT Q. That's good advice I understand that Ehret changed its name at some point to Baldwin A. Yes Q. Then the name changed to Keene Corporation MR LEDWITH I would object to that That's a clearly leading question MR SCHMIDT Okay BY MR SCHMIDT Q. What name changes were there after Ehret if you remember now A. Baldwin Q. Was there any name change after that Whereupon the witness answered his phone BY MR SCHMIDT Q. I had asked you about the name changes from Ehret and you mentioned Baldwin Was there a name change after that A. It Was really part of Keene Corporation I 400 MARKET STREFT PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KAIPES COHEN COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 9300 215 92B 9300 Ss DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 don't know just when that happened Q. What name Was on your payroll check when you left do you remember A. I do not remember Q. Now in 1936 when you started with Ehret what was your job at that time A. I was a clerk in the sales department Q. How long was that your job approximately A. I was transferred in 1945 to the contract division warehouse office in Philadelphia Q. During that first job between 1936 and 1945 where was your office located then A. Valley Forge Q. And did you visit the Ehret plant at Valley Forge when you had that job A. Not really Only I would say to consult sometimes with the shipping department on the first floor of the -- In other words the office -- the plant building was different separate from the office building It was in the same just a little distance between them You entered another building to get where they were and I used to go out into that office not very often Q. What products were being made in the Valley Forge plant during that first ten years you were 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 00 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 with the company A. Primarily the 85 percent magnesia pipe and boiler insulation Q. And when you did have occasion to visit the plant itself did you see any part of the manufacturing process of those products A. No not -- never got involved with that I got involved in the factory only with the shipping department Q. Can you describe what you observed in the shipping department during that period A. Well mainly the - in the shipping department near it they had a - they had chutes coming down from the floor above And that was the cartoning of the material the block form and the flat cartons that type That would come down these chutes and I observed this quite often I had some doings with the shipping department which was in the factory factory office shipping but not very much I mean maybe a small amount every day particularly if we were shipping something Q. And what if anything would happen when the blocks would come down the chute A. Well it would create a dust In other words they would hit the bottom of this metal-- 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES =iGsCOURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928-9300 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 9 1 like a skid thing you know and then there was a carton there and they would just take the stuff and put it in When they hit the bottom of that chute it created a cloud of dust Now I can't tell you What the dust was Could be a combination of things but it was a whitish dust because the material was white Q. This was the 85 percent magnesia block A. Yeah or covering This particular one I'm talking about the slabs yes -- The covering was that was cartoned in a similar manner Q. The 85 percent magnesia block are you aware of how much asbestos was in that A. Well it's called 85 percent supposedly because its 15 percent something else I think there's a couple of small -- I would say that eight or ten percent was probably asbestos fiber but I -- you know I wasn't in the technical end of it I never paid too much attention to that I was mainly with figures dollars and figures how to make a buck Q. Now with respect to this process by which the blocks would come down the chute and create the dust what special equipment if any was given to employees for that job 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 19156 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 928 93090 300 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 10 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. They were supposed to wear -- they were given a mask and supposed to wear a face mask Q. What would happen if they didn't wear it oe Tete A. Well basically they would get a warning or en two then it was automatic dismissal But they gave ot they were a little bit lenient at the plant because it was something new at that time and it was ungodly hot out 120 to 130 degrees you know no air conditioning so they was the guys that the masks helped them a lot helped them get some oxygen or get -- at least keep out the -- you know the fibers in the air Q. Now sir when did you first become aware of the disease asbestosis A. Well I would say -- I don't know exactly when but it was basically I think after I moved down to Cumberland Street Q. Pardon when A. I think it was after 1945 1945 is I moved from Valley Forge down to the other operation Q. Do you recall approximately when it was that you did become aware of that disease asbestosis A. Well I never thought I was -- I never thought about it as affecting me because the warehouse was a little different than the plant It 400 MARKMAREKETT STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928-9300 1s de niat* 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 11 wasn't anywhere near as big It was right on the street and the doors were open and we didn't really have to handle it that much We had Our trucks that delivered to our jobs and it didn't really get handled too much Q. Insofar as the plant when did you become aware of asbestosis A. Because I had left the plant ~- I visited the plant occasionally the years that I was down running the contract division but I didn't pay much attention to the plant then only to have conferences with the owners of the company and executives of the company And that was it right back to Cumberland Street in my little office and operated the contract division Q. Insofar as relation to the plant was it before you moved to Cumberland Street in 1945 that you became aware of asbestosis or after you moved MR LEDWITH I object He already testified to that It's a leading question THE WITNESS 1945 that was when that -- is when I took over the contract division BY MR SCHMIDT Q. The masks that you mentioned what was the 400 PHILADELPHIA MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 1910A KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 93920 8 90 300 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 12 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 purpose of those masks A. In the factory Q. Yes A. To keep the dust from -~- In other words they wore the mask where they were around this material at the point where it was dusty when they were cracking the containers or handling it The slightest handling of it ~-- now you could say it was asbestos and you can say it wasn't but it was basically magnesia But you had to have a small amount of asbestos with it Lord knows We didn't want to use asbestos We had to get it through Canada in cars and whatnot but it was the only way at that time anyway that you could use it to mold the magnesia into shapes Q Why didn't you want to use asbestos A. We didn't want to use ~- It was the only thing we knew about The along In the early days fiberglass later came there was no fiberglass insulation as such And I think all of our competitors who made magnesia used - I'm sure that Mattison did and I know Manville did And I know Philip Carey did Q. You indicated that you didn't want to use asbestos Why was that 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 13 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 24 25 A. Well there Was a general feeling I think that asbestos -- not many people knew about it except that it's fire proof Most people could think only of theater curtains when they heard the word asbestos or something I think it's fire resistant and fireproof But for that reason is why it had that advantage in what might have been competitive material Q. What was this general feeling that you mentioned A. You know that -~ Q. As far as asbestos yes sir A. I think the feeling in general was that the more you were around asbestos in a pure form of any kind the more likely it would be to cause you trouble probably Q. Are you talking about lung trouble A. I would say that would be the main thing Q. And when did you first understand that to be the case A. Well shortly after I started work there Q. You started work there in ~- A. 1936 Q. Now the products that were made there the magnesia pipe covering and block -- you indicated 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 928 93090 300 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 14 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that you were in sales between 1936 and 1945 Who were your customers during that period A. Well they were mostly contractors insulation contractors Wherever -- in the territory that we covered which was mostly the Eastern Seaboard We didn't ship -- we didn't do business on the coast too expensive freightwise SO most of our material came out of the Valley Forge plant All of the material that came into our warehouse was incorporated in the five county area plus New Jersey plus local And we had certain customers which is one of the reasons maybe that we're here today I don't know but we had a very close relationship with the American Viscose Corporation And it was through my connection there with one of the top men that We were given the two huge renovation jobs in Virginia for American Viscose One in Nitro West Virginia One in Front Royal Virginia Those jobs were done -M- I ran them I had the superintendent running those jobs out of Philadelphia This rest were all hired out of the union except for maybe a couple foremen and the job superintendent Q. During that first ten year period you were 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE -928 9300 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 15 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 with the company 1936 to 1945 to what extent if at all were you involved in sales to the Navy or to the government A. Yes Navy some smaller divisions of the H government Quite a bit in the Navy through the Navy Yard We bid on their inquiries particularly the Philadelphia Navy Yard Q. In terms of the total volume of their sales during that period what percent would you estimate were to the Navy A. Well I would -- it's a guess I would guess maybe 20 percent 25 percent Q. Now after 19 - in 1945 you indicated that your job at Ehret changed What was the new job you started at that point A. They -- the -- Ehret operated a branch office in Philadelphia engaged primarily in handling the contract work hiring of insulators as needed ordering the material What was your question again - Q. Basically I wanted to know what your job what your new job was that you assumed in 1945 what that involved A. This involved -- In other words the company had an office in Philadelphia which sold materials 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 928 93090 300 kc.coy DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 16 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 out of the warehouse but mainly it was on a supplying basis application bid on the insulation material In 1945 upon the retirement of the former manager who was for many years with Ehret Mr. Supplee -- Mr. Supplee was there almost from the beginning He retired And he was -- sent me down to run that operation in Valley Forge Q. If you would like to rest a few minutes that will be fine One thing you have to do is sort of keep your voice up SO this lady can pick up what you're saying A. Right Q. So I take it in 1945 your office moved to Philadelphia A. Yeah I moved really Q. You moved A. Yeah I mean they had -- Q. The office was already there A. Yes and a man was temporarily running it for a small amount of time until they got ready to send me down there Q. And your job title at that point was contract manager or -- A. Branch manager is what -- when I took that 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 17 job Q. And did that remain your job until you left in 1976 or 19757 MR LEDWITH I object to the question MR SCHMIDT On what basis MR LEDWITH It's leading BY MR SCHMIDT Q. Were you branch manager up until you left in 1975 or did you take some other job MR LEDWITH Same objection THE WITNESS Same objection MR LEDWITH You can answer the question THE WITNESS I retired in 1975 BY MR SCHMIDT Q. Now what were the materials that you were in involved in selling as the branch manager of Ehret in Philadelphia A. Well 85 percent magnesia which we stored not in huge quantities in our warehouse but we had to carry a respectable amount of it because people from Philadelphia would want - they would want to come get it and pick it up the same day you know in small orders but We - and we got - whenever We got to a certain point the factory would send us 400 MARKET STREFT PHILADELPHIA PA 191 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 93920 8 90 300 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 18 another trailer load of material which we always -- we told them what size and what thicknesses we need They would send it down and we'd start over again Q. Were there other materials that were sold out of that warehouse in addition A. Yes there were I mean some low pressure insulation We carried commonly known as Aircell wool felt had been replaced These were low quality efficient and they were all doomed when fiberglass came out That replaced nearly all that type of material over the years Q. That replaced the Aircell A. And the wool felt and anti sweat and all And a lot of the cork-- well lot of cork is still used Q. Were there any other products other than the 85 percent magnesia pipe covering and block and the Aircell and the wool felt that were sold out of the Philadelphia office A. We carried insulation ~-- two or three insulating cements two or three grades of insulating cement Actually we had never had a very large amount in the warehouse because it Was - Most of the time it was overnight to get it from the 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 K.< cone 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 19 plant I mean a couple of days If we had a sudden run on something we could replenish it Particularly they would pay attention to their own branch You know I'm sure some of their customers got a little mad at them if they fell behind on shipping dates because who are you going to feed your son or your law you know Q. You mentioned insulating cements Do you recall any of the names of the insulating cements that Were sold out of the Philadelphia branch A. Yes Powerhouse Was one Super Powerhouse was one later on manufactured by Baldwin or Baldwin Q. Do you recall any other cements other than the Powerhouse and Super Powerhouse A. And the asbestos cement which we imported from Canada There was no commercial production so that was stamped on every Q because there-- there are a few asbestos deposits in the United States but very scattered hardly worth doing anything with So everybody has to use the Canadian material Q. Do you recall any other kinds of cements that were sold out of the Philadelphia branch A. Well as I said Powerhouse would be one asbestos cement Was sold in 50 and 100 pound bags 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 93920 8 90 300 <yee 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 20 Not as much of that that was in the process of being replaced by the Powerhouse type cement which was a much more efficient insulation than asbestos and still was fireproof Q. Are you familiar with Number One Plus A. Yeah that's -- Q. What was that A. That's a Super Powerhouse BEH Plus Number One Plus yeah Q. So I take that's a cement A. Yeah Q. Are you familiar with Thermasil A. Yes Q. What is that A. That's a calcium silicate pipe - or block insulation or both That was a trade name Q. And were both of those materials also sold out of the Philadelphia branch A. Yes later Q. Now I understand that you were branch manager between 1945 and 19757 A. Yes I didn't think that was true when I heard it 30 years in the same plant but that's --~- that was it I mean you know I visited the Valley Forge plant quite often on business We discussed =e 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 1910 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 21 things but I was headquartered that long on Cumberland Street I retired at age 65 -- 63 Q. At the time that you retired I think in 1975 A. Yes Q. At that point in time were there any of these different materials that you mentioned not being sold out of the Philadelphia branch A. No. I think we sold the same type of material that we did prior to 1975 Q. These different materials that you have mentioned here Who made those materials What company or companies made those materials A. Well you mean the cements and the type of pipe covering Q. Yes A. We made magnesia and we made what was known as high temperature insulation which our trade name was Enduro This was for 1,800 degree limits Magnesia was 600 degree limits They were replaced mainly by calcium silicate which was a 1,200 degree That's high enough You don't have to specialize it Q. When you say we do you mean Ehret A. Yes Ehret Q. Now what about the cements Do you know where they were made or who made them 400 MARKET SSTREET TREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 93920 8 90 300 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 22 A. Well basic asbestos cement which we used most of by far that was a Canadian product It was all marked Canadian product Every bag was marked no commercial production in the United States That was to keep people from hollering about using imported material from other countries Q. What about the Powerhouse and Super Powerhouse that you mentioned that replaced that A. They were mineral wool basis and were actually I think the trade name of Baldwin Hill Q. What about the Number One Plus A. Number One Plus might have been somebody else's I think Could be 8 If you don't remember that's fine A. Yeah It's hard to remember that far back but -- Q. These materials where were they stored in connection with the Philadelphia branch A. The Philadelphia branch was primarily a warehouse operation a fairly good size about half a block long on the 1300 block of Cumberland Street right near the North Broad Street station of the Reading Q Was your office in that warehouse A. Yes it was divided by the big door the big 400 MARKET STREET PHILADE OMIA PHILADE OMIA PHILADE OMPHILIADEAOMIA DA 10106 KNIPES a ea ee eee ee e Uh ee ee ee eee PHONE 215 928 9300 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 23 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 heavy metal door Q. These materials in the warehouse in Philadelphia to what extent were they stored in their original containers A. Mostly-- I mean of course we had to split cartons I mean We had a small business as well as a big business we were furnishing our jobs with material but a lot of people were picking up from us you know a carton here carton there for their own use or something for doing a little -- some little plumber's - the employers had a job to do Rather than contract somebody to do it he would do what he wasn't supposed to do put the insulation on himself which was ~- this we didn't like but after all we could not refuse to sell it Q. I take it that by and large they were in their original containers A. Yes Q. During the time you were branch manager how often would you visit those areas of the warehouse where A. these products were Well I would say stored as an average probably at least once a day Sometimes -~- I mean it was right there You just opened the door Sometimes it was easier to do that than give an instruction to MARKET 406 ee STREET OE KNIPES SQUST DEPORTING DEPORTING SERVICE PHONE 93920 8 90 300 E DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 24 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 somebody rather than to pick up the intercom phone I mean it was just right there Q. And was this true up until the time you retired A. As far as I can recall yes Q. I understand these were Ehret an Baldwin Hill materials MR LEDWITH Objection Leading question BY MR SCHMIDT Q. Who made these materials MR LEDWITH Well I would ask what materials are you referring to BY MR SCHMIDT Q. The pipe covering and block and cement in the warehouse that we have been talking about A. Well for instance all of the - any magnesia or calcium silicate insulation that we would have in the warehouse would have been manufactured in Valley Forge Other materials which we had to stock such as Aircell wool felt pipe covering were purchased from Norristown Magnesia and Asbestos Company Q. What about the cement A. Cements Number One BEH Super Powerhouse 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 1910 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 25 Powerhouse BEH Q. BEH meaning Baldwin A. Baldwin MR SCHMIDT Was there an answer to that on the record THE COURT REPORTER Yes BY MR Baldwin , SCHMIDT Q. During these visits to the part of the warehouse right outside the door where these products were stored during the time that you were branch manager did you ever see anything on the containers of these materials that would warn people who were using these materials that asbestos dust could be harmful A. I never saw them myself that I can recall warnings Q. Thank you I don't have any further . questions I think the other people here may have some questions for you A. Okay sir CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR LEDWITH 400 MARKET STREET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300  DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 26 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Do you want to take a break A. I shouldn't because all I'll do is smoke a cigarette I'm trying to cut that out MR SCHMIDT It's up to you whatever you would like THE WITNESS Let's go ahead BY MR LEDWITH Q. Mr. Satterthwaite when did the branch at Cumberland Street close down A. I don't know that I know that I have always said that I left there -- I retired in 1975 And as far as I know I was - that's when the branch was closed Q. But you didn't retire from that branch location did you A. I believe so I didn't go back to the Valley Forge at any point that I remember Q. Didn't you work in the main office in Princeton for a while A. That's a part at the end my wife remembers but I -- that clearly is a blank to me What is a blank working in Princeton A. Yeah For any length of time Of course my memory is even worse now than it was then about these things You go back too far It's -- just a 4000 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 27 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 stone wall hits me Q. What's that with your memory A. Yeah Q. You are having a problem with your memory isn't that right A. Yes somewhat Particularly if it's quite a while ago Q. Has your memory gotten worse in the past year A. Well I think it has to a point that I sometimes forget things quicker than I would a couple -- even a couple of years ago In other words to me that's probably just disintegration in general I'm in the seventies I mean I have had a lung problem anyway all my life pneumonia at age five I have had three attacks of pneumonia before I was 15 years old That's serious Each time it rendered my lungs less So for the last 15 or 20 years there is no way I can run from here to that car there As long as I can walk and walk slowly as long as I lie in bed or sleep no problems Q. You're under treatment by a doctor for -- A. From time to time There is nothing that can be done about it It's simply a restriction in my lungs that cannot be -- the only thing you have to be careful is not to make it worse and one of the 4K MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 KPe bane * etneag DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 28 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 things you should never do is smoke for instance Q. You're also under treatment for a heart problem A. No. I don't know where that came from As far as I know I never had any heart trouble Q Mr. Satterthwaite the best recollection you have now is that you remained manager of the Cumberland Street branch up until the time you left the company A. Yes Actually that's when I left to retire which was a little bit before the usual age I just decided I had enough of it Q. You were never an officer of the company were you A. No not at Ehret Magnesia Q. And essentially your job from 1936 to 1945 was as an inside salesman isn't that right A. Right clerk in the sales department Q. You were a clerk A. Yeah Q. Who did you work - A. For the vice president in charge of sales John D. DuBois Q. A. You were 22 when you started was 23 1936. I was born in 1913 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COHEN COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 93920 8 90 300 i 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 29 Q. When you ran the contracting branch would you characterize your job as sales there A. Basically I -- one thing was peculiar I had never worked as a pipecoverer never in the field and most --- that was a big part of the job I never had that experience I never thought you had to have it We had a capable man doing it for me who knew - who was an asbestos worker himself who retired as many did and became superintendents of -- because they still had the know maybe not -- you know up to know what to do Q. Are you saying you had a superintendent who ran jobs for you A. Well we had an outside superintendent who paid J who handled only the contract part of the work Because see we sold materials too Of course he'd have nothing to do with that We had almost as big a material sales business as we did contract Q. So you spent most of your day at the place on Cumberland Street A. Yes I -- We had an efficient superintendent two of them when We were very busy who went out on almost every job every day almost without exception checking And I did all the buying all the billing 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT PEROPTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 E E 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 30 of course I did the billing or told them what to bill when to bill Typical branch manager's job Had to be careful I didn't get -- step on Valley Forge's toes too much They might think I was pretty dispensable He's not indispensable Q. You were never involved in the manufacturing side of the business were you A. No other than the location of the sales department in the building next to the factory in Valley Forge And I used to walk out in the plant occasionally Generally only to the shipping department which was only about 50 yards -- 50 feet inside the -- from the door to the office part I used to go out there to check on the shipping sometimes see if they were getting the stuff out on time Too many cartons lying around so on but most of the time I never had particular reason to go into the plant very off Q. You were never involved in formulating the composition of the material A. No. Q. Your answer is no A. No response MR LEDWITH Off the record Discussion held off the record 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 1915 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 31 BY MR LEDWITH Q. You're not a chemist by training are you A. No. ' Or a geologist A. No. I have no degrees of any kind except one year at Haverford College Q. You went one year at Haverford or two years A. One I think No I guess maybe two yeah MR SCHMIDT Pardon I didn't hear that question MR LEDWITH I said did you go one or two years at Haverford THE WITNESS I think only one I'm not sure I think it's one not two because it was approaching the deep depression period BY MR LEDWITH Q. When you went to the warehouse how often would you go to the warehouse from '36 to 457 Would be it be once a month once a year A. To the warehouse on Cumberland Street Q. I'm sorry The finishing department at Valley Forge MR SCHMIDT I think he called it shipping 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KAIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 Com DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 32 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR LEDWITH Q. I'm sorry A. Did I visit it did you say Q. Yes A. Well I -- only if there were complaints that certain orders Were not being shipped on time And actually there that had happened occasionally That was really M the vice president had the authority more than I had as an assistant I mean - In other words I did not go out into the plant very often And when I did it was only into the first part of it to the shipping floor And there was some dust around in there When they were loading these blocks in cartons there would be a little but outside of that I never really got around -- didn't even -- I never even saw a lot of the plant where the earlier -- where the starting manufacturer began the molding all these processes to come up with the pipe insulation and blocks They were all molded in the finishing department Q. Was Mr. DuBois still there when you left A. I think so yeah Q. A. Let me -- I thought I would have never forgotten the answer to that question 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 E DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 33 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Was he your boss A. He was a tough one Q. Was he your boss when you left for the contracting division A. I don't think so I think I asked Mr. Ehret Junior who was president of the company if he would think about giving me a crack at replacing Mr. Supplee as a contract manager of the branch office I - figured I asked him this for one reason that I don't see any possible promotion for me here because they were all taken There were only four executives Russell Crawford in Norristown was the secretary and Al Ehret Junior was president John DuBois was vice president in charge of sales and Henry Howell was vice president in charge of purchasing Q. Were you essentially in the same position in 1945 as when you started in '36 A. Well I had had -- they were -- let me put it this way They were fairly well satisfied with my work at Valley Forge and I got periodic increases I was not unhappy there But when this opportunity came because of Mr. Supplee's ill health and whatnot I asked for a crack at a lot more responsibility and consequently assuming they'll pay me a better wage 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 1910 KAIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE Jil PHONE 215 928 9300 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 34 which he did But essentially for the nine years that you were there you were doing inside sales work A. Yes inside sales Q. And from '36 to '45 where did Ehret sell most most of its products A. Well we had - they had a distributorship all - reasonably -- not on the Pacific coast but far as ~- We had a Chicago office and a smaller warehouse and We had contracts ~~ We dealt mostly with contractors who had their own facilities mechanical contractors or insulation contractors which we manufactured insulation and did ship often often to our competitors Q. Is that who you dealt with mostly mechanical contractors A. Yes and large industrial firms who some of them wanted to deal direct Q. How about in the period from 1936 to '45 did you deal mainly with mechanical contractors A. Yes Insulation was nearly always a sub of the plumbing heating and air conditioning contractors unless it was a very large job or unless it Was a large industrial company such a American Viscose and again because they let their 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 35 insulation work directly to us And they had -- that's when they were on a tremendous expansion I spent five years in Virginia and West Virginia not steadily but going down there at least two or three times a month Q. What years were they do you remember Was that in the sixties A. Let's see now This would be in the fifties The first one in 1954 was Nitro - or Front Royal Virginia And the second one was -- my mind is bad Nitro West Virginia Q. Did you do any selling on the road during the period '36 to '45 A. No. Q. I have no other questions BY MS HALPERN Q. Mr. Satterthwaite I'm Linda Halpern I'm with the Department of Justice I'm going to ask you some questions now to0 When you were with the contracting unit in Philadelphia did you ever sell any of the fireproofing sprays that Baldwin made Fire spray or any of those A. NO to my knowledge MARKET ~ " ai nd ORLA B 1010 KNIPES COHEN COURT BEDORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 36 Q. You did sell you mentioned earlier to the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard is that correct A. We sold insulation to them yes 0 Now Were any of these sales in the form of blanket sales agreements do you remember that term A. I don't think we ever had that relationship with them We had contracts for purchase from the Philadelphia Navy Yard For instance they purchased materials from US all the time Q. Did you sell them material from 1945 on into the 1960's A. Yes although mainly -- yes I'd say we did Generally because they wanted material in a hurry and if we had to ship it through Valley Forge they were running backlogged then We had to keep as much as We could in the warehouse It spoiled them Q. When you would sell to a customer did you make a practice of doing some sort of a background investigation about the customer before you would sell the product A. If it were any -- involved any sizeable amount of work before we'd get into that we would have to take it up with our home office to see if they wanted to go out of the territory or okay the ~- doing something differently They more or less bid 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 1910 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 i.Ba d l DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 37 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 as a contractor Q. Now I'm not talking about contract work where you have to arrange for the people to go out and put the insulation on I'm just talking generally about selling Baldwin supplies or materials to purchasers A. Yes Q. Would you do some sort of a credit check or some kind of a background check on the customer or would you just sell them the stuff if they wanted it A. Well if it was a new customer somebody we weren't selling generally I would ask for a credit reference or get Valley Forge to ask for a credit reference Q. Would you check on anything else about them besides whether their credit was good anything else that you had to check A. Well mainly what they would furnish me with or -- either the information in or give me a copy of the D and B Report Q. Dun and Bradstreet Report A. Yes on the case -- firm involved Q. NOW you occasionally sold -- Well it's more than occasionally You sold asbestos products to the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard right You said 4 MARKET STREET STREET HNIPES eee PHONE 215 928 9300 Ss DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 38 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 already that you had A. Yeah Q. Did you ever send -MR LEDWITH Off the record Discussion held off the record BY MS HALPERN Q. When you sold material to the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard and any other Shipyard that you sold to what factors did you consider when you were deciding how to make the sale Obviously you don't have to check the federal government's credit reference but were there other factors that you considered or not A. The price we would quote them charge them would depend on several factors It was one whether it was a hundred dollar order or a hundred thousand dollar order which they had -- hundred thousand dollars is a little high for one but we had -- you had to check -- credit was never a question if you were dealing with the government And we made sure that the material that we furnished to the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard met their specification Q. Okay Did you ever go yourself or send 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA P^ 10106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 vey 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 39 somebody to check to see how the materials were being installed at the Shipyard A. Not really no because they were doing all their own The Navy Yard had maybe a hundred pipecoverers employed in the forties and fifties Q. Did you ever ask any Navy personnel questions about how your materials were being used A. No. Q. Did you have any reason to A. No. Primarily they were going into the making of vessels or refurbishing them equipping vessels maintenance of the vessels as well as possibly new construction Q. Nobody from the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard ever made you any promises about how they would use your products once they purchased them did they A. Well they would - We knew they were using it to insulate hot surfaces whether it be a pipe or a flat surface Q. What was your connection with Miles Wilson Did you work for him or was he in another chain of command altogether A. He was not involved in the contracts operation as such Q. Do you recall what his title was 400 MARKET STREET Prui ADELPHIA ADELPHIA PA 19102 KNIPES COURTCOURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE a 40 a 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. No Response Q. Was he involved in sales A. He was involved in sales I think but I think completely out of Trenton wasn't he out of Baldwin Hill Q Did you ever sell anything to anybody on an as is basis A. On a what Q. As is A. No. What do you mean insulating material Q. Right A. Not to my knowledge I mean some goods get damaged we'd throw them out if the cartons got wet or something but I can't remember selling damaged insulation Q. I'm going to ask you about some names and I'd like you to tell me if you know who these people are Does the name J. A. McCague A mean anything to you A. A- - Q. A. Q. A Not off -- no I have to say All right How about an F. Watson A. Frank Watson 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928-9300 iE:> 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 41 Q. Do you recall that name A. I remember him yes I had some dealings with him Q. Do you have any idea where he would be today A. No I don't I don't know whether he was -- I think he was slightly older than I and I'm '70 SO he's probably retired if he's anywhere Q Did you have any dealing with the people who did the purchasing for Baldwin or Baldwin people like Mr. Forina A. Yes I mean not really dealing with but I knew him pretty well Q. Do you know who replaced him when he left A. No I do not Q. At the time that you left the Valley Forge plant and took over the contract unit in Philadelphia did you at that point already know that there might be some problem with breathing | asbestos MR LEDWITH I object to that because it's a leading question It's been already gone over MS HALPERN I'm entitled to ask leading questions He's not my witness counselor 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 HAIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 42 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR LEDWITH I object It's a leading question MS HALPERN Well that's fine I'm a third party defendant and I'm on cross examination as far as I'm concerned ra we BY MS HALPERN wanes Q. Did you know that there might be some danger in connection with breathing asbestos prior to the time you left Valley Forge and went to the ON Philadelphia contract unit MR LEDWITH I object BY MS HALPERN You can answer the question anyway Would you restate it again At the time that you -- in 1945 when you Went to the contract unit in Philadelphia at that point in time did you already know there was some problem or some danger of breathing asbestos or did that knowledge come later MR LEDWITH I object BY MS HALPERN Answer the question anyway Yes I knew that there was a danger Okay Was that something that had you read 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA DA 10106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928-9300 E DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 43 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 or something that you heard or -- MR LEDWITH I object to the question THE WITNESS I could only say again that there -- if I was -- if I Were out in the plant at any time or in the work -- doing anything with this material - whoever went into the plant really was supposed to wear a mask at all times because of the -- of the dust in the air Call it asbestos maybe it's wrong or maybe it's right because this dust -- the 80 percent magnesia itself the material was very dusty And it's exactly -~ it's a little whiter than the asbestos cement or asbestos but they're entirely different as far as the insulation value is in the magnesia and the asbestos It's only there because you have to have something there with a fiber that -- you could use fiberglass if you wanted to MR LEDWITH May I have that answer read back Whereupon the Court Reporter read back the pending answer BY MS HALPERN 400 MARKET STREET KNIPES me mt ew wm, Fier PF Pia PHONE 215 928 9300 k DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 44 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. During the period that you were in the contract office in Philadelphia you have testified that you sold to the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard you sold to building contractors A. Yes Q. Or contractors insulation contractors A. Insulation contractors and industrial customers Q. What kind of industrial customers A. Well those who -- for instance American Viscose for one Q. American West Coast A. Viscose Q. What kind of company is that A. This is the company that is involved in our case in Virginia and West Virginia Q What kind of a company is it What do they make or do if you know A. They make various and different chemicals I can't tell you too much about them but it's a chemical operation Q. You sold them asbestos insulation products A. Yes and tremendous amounts 0 Did you ever buy asbestos insulation products 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 Ss 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 45 from other companies such as Manhattan or Unarco for resale to the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard A. No. 0 Items that you yourself didn't carry A. Can't think of any Q. For example did you ever buy any asbestos tape from somebody else and then turn around and sell that to the Philadelphia Shipyard A. NO not that I recall Q. I don't have any other questions MS DRUCKER No questions MR SCHMIDT up one area here I'd like to just clear REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR SCHMIDT Q. When you were with the Philadelphia branch between -- when you were manager of the Philadelphia branch between 1945 and 1975 who were the customers for the materials warehouse there A. Who were the customers Q. Yes sir A. Well it varied and industrial customers and plumbing and steam fitting companies who owned their 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 <wad 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 46 own insulation - the heating contractor -- in most big jobs the insulation is kept out of the contracts because the insulation is so important today that it becomes a separate bid or a bid It used to be that nearly all the pipe covering that was ever used was generally a sub CLAS generally just a -- just sold to w direct to the consumer ' You indicated for the 1936-45 period that 20 percent of your sales were to the Navy To what extent did you make sales to the Navy out of Philadelphia during the 1945-1975 period A. You're talking about the amounts Q. Yes A. I don't know that I can even guess at that intelligently They had -- sometimes they would call us up and get a small order without even competition Most of it was the result of bidding and larger ones specifically I think it was up to the Navy Yard to do - what they did generally is that they had -- they favored everybody a little bit In other words anybody who faithfully quoted them on contracts was going to get an order now and then They didn't want it all in one spot They didn't want to sign a contract Q. Can you estimate for me as far as material 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 HNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928-9300 wel ic Rie-ony DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 47 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 sales go in the 1945-1975 period what percentage of the sales of insulation materials were to the Navy A. It would have to be a real guess but I'd say now of course you're talking about -- the thing here that gets a little hairy about it is the Valley Forge office back at Ehret Magnesia maintained a right to quote the U.S. Government at any time In other words our territory was not considered tight -- and they -- the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard was they had had -- had the right it was said that we could bid as long as they didn't say they were going to bid instead and they didn't or they couldn't They could Q. Was there any difference like in the size of the sales made from Valley Forge as compared to the size of the sales from Philadelphia Do you understand that question A. Yes I think I do But most of the time most of the Navy the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard material required inspection before shipment most of it So therefore mostly it was shipped from the plant because the inspector had work in the plant to do other things to do I mean the Navy -- they almost had a man there permanently But they had one out 400 MARKET S STREET TREESTRET T PHU ADELPHIA ADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 K DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 48 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of Norristown it was to help -- I'd say 20 or 30 hours a week anyway checking requirements for Navy or Navy sub Q. Are you familiar with the firm of C. E. Thurston A. Yes When I say familiar I mean I know the company I know Mr. Thurston and he used to be a distributor or a contractor for Ehret Q. During the time you were in charge of the Philadelphia branch 1945 to 1975 how were sales to C. Thurston accomplished That is were they through Valley Forge or were they through Philadelphia primarily A. Never through me Q. Were they handled then by Valley Forge A. Yes Our territory -- see really the branch's territory was basically limited to the five metropolitan counties and Philadelphia That was our territory wanted However if American Viscose something done and they wanted it done in Nitro West Virginia We went there But basically we hired local and did local work We kept the warehouse fairly well stocked SO - because it was the waiting time at the plant I mean you could get an emergency We had -- 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 k DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 49 everybody got to depend on us for fast deliveries because we had a sizeable warehouse That paid for us Other people wouldn't meet deliveries It kind of spoiled them because -- it hurt us in the long run because they expected us to drop everything Q. Was it cheaper to handle the large sales 10 through Valley Forge than through Philadelphia A. Yes it would be I mean but sometimes they wanted stuff in a hurry Normally any sizeable one --= the order came to us but the order went from me to 11 the factory to ship to the Philadelphia Naval Yard 12 and bill the branch office at our distributorship 13 regular price And they would allow us the 14 difference between what We sold the Navy and of 15 course the branch cost were their profits 16 17 Q. Now you have indicated that you realized there was a problem with asbestos shortly after 18 coming with the company in 1936. My question -- 19 MR LEDWITH I object to that I'm 20 not sure he said that 21 22 23 24 25 MR SCHMIDT Would you find that part of the transcript here It's in the beginning I just want to ask the question you mean by shortly after What did 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 1910 COHEN COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 === DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 51 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. What did you mean by shortly after coming to Ehret when you understood that be the general feeling A. Coming to Ehret Q. What did you mean by shortly after coming to Ehret A. Shortly after beginning employment with Ehret Q. Yes A. Okay Well that would be 1936 is when I started working for Ehret Magnesia Manufacturing Company And I remained at the home office in Valley Forge until they sent me down to the branch office in 1945. So I was nine years in Valley Forge before I ever went to Philadelphia MR SCHMIDT Could you read that back aloud please again Whereupon the Court Reporter read back the following questions and answers Q. What was this general feeling that you mentioned A. You know that -- Q. As far as asbestos yes sir A. I think the feeling in general was that the more you were around 400 MARKET STREET Chell ADET 1912E KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 52 asbestos in a pure form of any kind the more likely it would be to cause you trouble probably Q. Are you talking about lung trouble A. I would say that would be the main thing Q. And when did you first understand that to be the case It A. Well shortly after I started work there BY MR SCHMIDT Q. My question is What did you mean when you said shortly after coming to work there A. The work at Valley Forge Q. Yes sir A. Say that again what I didn't answer Q. Well you before no you answered the questions I asked I'm just going to ask you a limited question about what you answered I don't understand part of your answer that's all MR SCHMIDT Please read it back again Whereupon the Court Reporter read back the following questions and answers 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 53 Q. What was this general feeling that you mentioned A. You know that -- Q. As far as asbestos yes sir A. I think the feeling in general was that the more you were around asbestos in a pure form of any kind the more likely it would be to caause you trouble probably 10 Q. Are you talking about lung 11 trouble 12 A. I would say that would be the 13 14 os 15 16 main thing Q. And when did you first understand that to be the case A. Well shortly after I started 17 work there 18 BY MR SCHMIDT 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. My question now is What did you mean when you said shortly after you started working there within what period of time A. I only worked in two locations One was the Valley Forge plant And the other one was Cumberland Street And I know that I started in '36 at Valley Forge And I was transferred to 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 E DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 54 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Philadelphia in '45 in '45 as contract manager Q. How soon after you started with the company in 1936 approximately how soon was it before you came to the understanding that has just been mentioned A. What understanding Q. That asbestos was a problem or could be a problem MR LEDWITH I object to that question THE WITNESS He objected to that BY MR SCHMIDT Q. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be answered A. Repeat it once more Q. How soon after you started at Valley Forge in 1936 did you come to understand that breathing asbestos could be a problem MR LEDWITH I object to that question too THE WITNESS Which means I'm not permitted to say MR LEDWITH You can answer the question I am registering my objection on the record The Court will decide the 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 s DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 55 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 objection at a later date THE WITness huh Now will you word me just once more so I know it's right BY MR SCHMIDT Okay MS HALPERN If I could interpose at this point We're going to have the question again and then we're going to have an objection again and then we're going to be asking the question again It might be a lot simpler if you state a continuing objection to a particular question so we don't have to have an objection every time the question is asked MR LEDWITH I prefer to register my objection to each question MS HALPERN In other words you prefer to interrupt the line of questioning each time with an objection MR LEDWITH Characterize it as you wish but I will reserve my right to object to the question MR SCHMIDT One more time I'm sorry read back the testimony from the 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 1910F KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 56 beginning those three questions there Off the record Discussion held off the record Whereupon the Court Reporter read back the pertinent testimony as follows Q. What was this general feeling that you mentioned A. You know that -- Q. A. As far as asbestos yes sir I think the feeling in general was that the more you were around asbestos in a pure form of any kind the more likely it would be to cause you trouble probably Q. Are you talking about lung trouble A. I would say that would be the main thing Q. And when did you first understand that to be the case A. Well shortly after I started work there BY MR SCHMIDT Q. Do you remember me asking those questions and you giving me those answers a little while ago that 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COHEN COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 = DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 57 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 she just read A. I would think so I am sort of in my dotage but I think I can -- Q. In connection with those questions what did you mean when you said shortly after you came there A. To Ehret Magnesia Q. Yes sir A. Shortly How long a period after I came there -~ in there Q. Yes A. That what happened that I -- Q. That you came to understand what she jsut read A. Q. How long a period of time after -You came there did you come to understand that A. Oh . # I would say -- I don't know but very shortly I mean although I was hired to do a job that was in part of the plant that did not have the asbestos problem because it was an office building but that I realized that I -- that my work in the sales department would occasionally take me out into the plant My boss MI DuBois would sometimes Want something out there from the shipping department or something and send me out into the 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 58 plant and get it 8 By very shortly do you mean less than a year or more than a year MR LEDWITH THE WITNESS Object What do you mean by very shortly I mean less than what BY MR SCHMIDT Q. Less than a year or more than a year A. On what Q. You used the phrase very shortly What did you mean by that A. Very shortly after -- Q. Coming there A. I don't know exactly but I would think very --: I didn't -- the first 30 days I would say Maybe sooner It was a known fact it was a problem Q. Thank you I don't have any further questions RECROSS EXAMINATION BY MR LEDWITH Q Mr. Satterthwaite during the questioning by Miss Halpern you referred to American Viscose Company 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19100 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 ke.at 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 59 A. Yes Q. And you said that words to the effect that it's involved in cases in Virginia A. Well it's -- I assumed it that this thing started -- I heard this started in Virginia And somehow I got information somewhere I don't know that it must be these two -- these jobs because We never contracted in Virginia Never had men in Virginia Q. But you believe that this case that this deposition is being taken in involves American Viscose Company A. Well I don't know how to answer that I mean we bid on the work in Philadelphia The home office was in Philadelphia All my dealings with the company was in Philadelphia And everything was handled out of Philadelphia And I think in the contracts all we did was man the job for them All we did was hire people locally to apply the material which we furnished because it J we operated under a union shop pipe insulators And we were allowed to only send a man and helper out in the territory Q. Well to go back to my original question Do you know of any cases arising out of American Viscose 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 ic wae 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 61 A. Yes Q. What happened in that 30 day period A. I was -~ As far as I knew I was hired as an assistant to the sales manager and I don't recall what I meant by that if I said a ten or whatever waiting period or whatever it was you said 30 Q. I used the period 30 days A. 30 days Well I got a tip from a friend of mine to go up and see a Mr. John DuBois at a plant called Ehret Magnesia Manufacturing Company which I had never heard of who wants a young man help him out I went up there met Mr. DuBois met Mr. Ehret And they hired me That was in 1936. And in 1945 they put me out to the contract division My employment with Ehret -- with -~ our work with American Viscose goes back from way back It just so happened that there -- if those -- an expansion plant had been built in New Jersey or Connecticut or New York we wouldn't have had a prayer Q. Well to get back when you started in 1936 did you know anything about the insulation business when you started A. Not really no I knew there was such a 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 k 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 62 thing but you know but pipecovering -- I had seen I just happened to see it not looking for it but I and then suddenly I - as soon as I started there I started to read books about it Q. About what A. About insulation and what it does and what it doesn't do and what it d how it is applied how it's made Q. time Did you read books about asbestos at that A. Pamphlets and things yes Q. Do you remember -- A. Actually it didn't seem to make much difference because what I was doing then was just assisting the vice president in charge of sales and learning a little bit about how he handled his job what his duties were What they were apparently thinking eventually of somebody him in X number of years who could replace | Q. Did you learn anything about masks when you first went there A. a A. About what Masks for your face No. a No 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 Ss 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 63 A. Not when I first went there because -- not until I saw how the plant -- I guess saw them some of them wearing masks This was back early when they weren't very popular Now I think they have rules have had for some time now that if they're caught -- I just heard this lately ~- if a man in the plant up there now is caught without a face mask in certain areas he is fired on the spot Q. What plant is that A. Valley Forge Q. You heard that recently A. Yes That's what I heard Scuttlebutt Q. Can you tell us -- A. But they're having trouble with the masks up there where there's dust asbestos all over the place Q. When did you first become aware of any problems with asbestos MR SCHMIDT Objected to as repetitious THE WITNESS Well I said when I started to work there I knew somebody who had worked there but he said there should be no problem You're not -- don't -- they won't take you in the plant You don't have 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 COHEN COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 Ke DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 64 10 1 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to go in the plant You don't have to go out in the -- you'll be in an office isolated --- in a building that's separate from the manufacturing and warehousing operation And you should have no problem He said the offices are air conditioned Later I think But SO I very seldom got out into the plant As I say only when I had a problem with the shipping department the shipping department Was in the corner of a part of the plant right nearest the office building BY MR LEDWITH Q. Was there a problem in the plant A. What Q. Was there a problem A. Well there Was -- there was no question about the dust that was around Q. There was dust in the plant A. Yes particularly in the loading platform where they packed them in the cartons there would be a cloud of dust go up and that dust -- this is why ta and in handling any of those asbestos slabs they would tend to dust And the plant was told by the safety people they would have to Wear a mask And most of the help in the plant areas where this was 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928-9300 E E DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 65 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 happening were pretty -- not very well educated to say the least I'm not going to say black because they weren't all black but they would not -- they could not stand that thing on their nose And they'd throw them way And they'd get warned once or twice then they got fired Then they get a set of new ones and the same thing would happen Q. Set of new what new employees A. New employees Most of the -- the wages were low and there was unemployment and this job took no skills really just putting stuff in cartons But And they wouldn't wear their masks half the time and they'd get fired when they didn't maybe one morning So it certainly was a -- it had to be a hazard working there steadily I'm sure 0 Because the dust -- A. huh hazard of breathing because even the mask they certainly did -~ stopped ninety percent of the problem but they would get so hard SO tough on the guys at 110 degrees out there They were tight masks They would just -- they'd just throw them down in disgust sometimes and walk out They can't stand -- can't breathe with it and can't breathe without it Q. I have no other questions Mr. Satterthwaite MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 66 MS HALPERN MR SCHMIDT No questions No more questions Witness excused Deposition concluded at 1:25 p.m. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 9300 " 215 928 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 67 - CERTIFICATE COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA COUNTY OF PHILADELPHIA I Brigitte A. Strain Registered Professional Reporter Public within and for the County of Philadelphia Commonwealth of Pennsylvania do hereby certify that the foregoing 10 testimony of Dwight Lord Satterthwaite Was taken 11 before me at 427 Norma Drive Ambler Pennsylvania 12 on Monday August 29 1983 that the foregoing 13 testimony was taken in shorthand by myself and 14 reduced to typing under my direction and control 15 that the foregoing pages 1 to 66 contain a true and 16 correct transcription of all of the testimony of 17 said Witness 18 19 20 BRIGITTE A. STRAIN 21 Notary Public 22 23 on 24 25 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 1 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE 68 I have read the foregoing deposition and the answers given by me are true and correct to the best of my knowledge information and belief 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 22 23 24 25 DWIGHT LORD SATTERTHWAITE Sworn to and subscribed before this me a Notary day of Public NOTARY PUBLIC 1983 400 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COURT REPORTING SERVICE PHONE 215 928 9300 /s