Document JNLqpog1VvaKn2qjapjVoDn36

DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS 1 2 3 if J-'Mj MISSIONARY ' 'CHURCH, at al., srm or maema a Tta circuit oust or caukxh cajsrrr 1 2 witness: Paul Georg* - m.3 BY ATEIB 4 BT MR. DAVIDSON Plaintiffs, CIVIL ACTION H14BSR 6 versus 7 CY-96-243 KCKSAWTO CtHPAHY, at ai., 8 Defendants. 9/ 10 U 12 deposition or paul gsxs bbbb 13 The deposition ol Paul 66019a Benignus, was 11 taken before Misty Perry, as Cceaissiaoar, 15 ccHfienciog at 10:20 aji., 00 April 22od, 1998, by 16 the Plaintiffs, at risb&r's Restaurant, 2110 Main LI Street, Belleville, Illinois, pursuant to the jlfl stipulations set forth herein, 19 20 21 Regional Reporting Service, Inc. 755 Halnut Street 22 Gadsden, Alabasa 35901-0755 |23 6 7 Plaintiffs' 8 Benignus 9 Exhibit (toe 10 Exhibit Two (D U Exhibit Three 83 12 Exhibit roar 104 13 Exhibit Five 123 14 Exhibit Six 135 - 15 Exhibit Set 149 16 Exhibit Eight 155 17 Exhibit Hine 166 18 Exhibit Tea 169 19 Exhibit Eleven 174 20 Exhibit Twelve a 184 22 Ho other exhibits were larked for identificatioo, Q offered, or attached as exhibits hereto. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, IHC. 1 APPEARANCES 2 3 For the Plaintiffs: 1 JACX ATXDf, Esq. KASONITZ, BEHSCW, TORRES ( FRH2MAH, L.L.P 5 1301 Avenue of the Aaericas Hew York, Hew York 10019-6022 6 DOtALO a. STOOR?, Esq. STEMART, COOT ( SMITH 1131 Leighton Avenue Anniston, Alabasa 36202 10 For the Defendants: U GERARD H. DAVIDSON, JR., Esq. SMITH, HELMS, MULL1SS & MOORS, L.L.P. 12 300 Horth Greene Street Greensboro, north Carolina 27401 13 WLLHM S. OS, IH, Esq. M iionroor, nwn 1 mm, i.l.c. 300 Financial Center 15 505 20th Street North Birsingha, Alabaaa 35203 16 in 18 19 Stipulations Page 4 -v* .er's CartificaU |22 23 REGICSAL fSKKTDC SERVICE, IHC. 1 STIPULATIONS 2 IT 15 STIPULATED AH) AGREED, by and 3 between the parties, through their respective 4 counsel, that the deposition of Paul George 5 Benign, lay be taken before Misty Perry, as 6 Cceaissiooer and Hotary Public, Alabaaa at Large, 7 at Belleville, Illinois, on April 22nd, 1998, 6 rrienring at 10:20 a.i. 9 IT 13 STIPULATED AH) AGREED that notice 10 of filing by the Ctsaissiaoec is waived. 11 12 lU it 15 16 17 18 19 20 a 22 23 RESIGNAL REPORTING SERVICE, DBS. 1 3 HARTOLDMONO013609 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS 1 purposes. Aoi index these 2 drciBstascts, i! in dea't 3 have tte right to call his 1 to trial, ueald praftr to 5 sake sore tint -- i m. DAVIDS The record is 7 dear. 8 M. Ami: All right 5 *. STOMP - Ub itcorf ia 10 as dear a* it caa to. Sot n if you last to sate aa omu objection yea sate it u because if there's sese wy it that Jadr wots to rephrase IS the quastiea or y'all dea't u uant S(Bstfein| is, I think 17 it's only lair to both 11 sides to do it ai il you're 19 going to trial. 20 m. DAVOS Okay, that's a fine. 22 ml Aral: nut's Um. 23 KL STOIAIT*. Tb^a we won't use UdSU UKXTU5 SOVICK, IK. 1 the usual stipulations. 2 3 EXAMINATION 4 BY MR. ATKIN: 5 Q. Mr. Beningnus -- Is It Beningnus? 6 A. Benignus. 7 Q. Benignus. 8 A. Or if you were a Bellevlllian -- or it 9 was predominantly German. It was 10 Benignus. 11 Q. How do you prefer? 12 A. I gues3 we'll go with Benignus. 13 Q. Okay. It's easier for me. Thank you. 14 Good morning to you, 3ir. 15 A. Good morning to you. 16 Q. Can you state your full name, please. 17 for the record? 18 A. Paul George Benignus. 19 a. And where do you live, Mr. Benignus? 20 A. 47 Metcalf, M-e-t-c-a-l-f, Drive. 21 Q. In Belleville? 22 A. Belleville, Illinois, 62223. 23 Q. Okay. Can you tell us, please, sir, REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 2 7 8 HARTOLDMONO013610 1 2 A. 3 5 Q. 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 10 A. 11 12 13 Q. 14 15 A. 16 17 Q. 18 A. 19 Q. 20 21 A. 22 Q. 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS what your educational background is? I have a bachelor of science degree in chemistry and a master of science degree in chemistry. Okay. Do you recall when you obtained those degrees? In '33 and '34. Okay. And where did you get the degrees? The bachelor's was at Illinois College. The master's was at Washington University at St. Louis. Okay. Can you tell us a little bit about your employment history? I started at Monsanto in September of '34, and I retired in '74. You began in 1934 -- I'm sorry. I started in '34. '34. So you worked for Monsanto for forty years? Right. Okay. Can you tell us what positions you held at Monsanto? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 9 1 2 3 4 5 Q. 6 7 A. 8 9 Q. 10 A. 11 Q. 12 13 A. 14 15 Q. 16 17 18 A. 19 Q. 20 A. 21 22 23 Q. whatever came along. It's no big deal. And I also spent soma time as a chemist in the plant -- in a plant laboratory, all in the manufacturing department. Which plant laboratory are you referring to? This is all on South Second Street, organic division. In St. Louis? In St. Louis. Okay. What did you do as a chemist in the plant lab? It was plant control analysis and the process. I'm sorry. I didn't catch the end of that. You have to speak up loud so that we -- I'm sorry. I'm sort of hoarse. Okay. No problem. But it was plant control laboratory or whatever process I was associated with at a given time. What do you mean by plant control? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 A. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Q. 15 A. 16 Q. 17 A. 18 19 20 Q. 22 A. 23 Well, in '34, as was the case with all new chemists, I spent two years in the analytical laboratory doing routine analytical work, testing the quality and the products that were manufactured at the organic chemical division plant on South Second Street. After that, I spent about a year in special analytical work. And that takes us up to, say, 1939, when I was sent to research -- to specifically the application research laboratory and I-- Where was that located? I'm sorry. Also on South Second Street. Okay. We didn't leave South Second Street until 1957, when we moved to Creve Coure. Okay. What did you do? What type of special analytical work did you do? Well, I don't remember the details. If it wasn't the routine analytical work, REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 10 1 A. 2 3 4 5 Q. 6 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 12 A. 13 14 15 16 17 Q. 18 19 20 21 22 A. 23 Q. Well, when you make a chemical, you have to control the process, and there is analytical work to be done to pursue and monitor the process. Okay. When you talk about the process. what do you mean? The manufacturing process? Yes, manufacturing of chemicals. Okay. And when you say controlling the manufacturing process, what do you mean by that? Well, when you make something, you have to have It under control. It's -- You follow the process. It'3 a reaction -- You control their reaction, 13 probably the way to put it. Okay. When you worked -- first began working and did analytical work and then when you subsequently did special analytical work, did any of that work involve PCB3? No. , Okay. How about the work you did when REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 3 11 12 HARTOLDMON0013611 1 2 3 s Q. 6 A. 7 8 9 Q. 10 A. 11 Q. 12 13 A. 14 15 16 17 18 Q. 19 A. 20 21 22 Q. 23 A. DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS you were working as a chemist in the plant control laboratory? Did any of that work involve PCBs? No. Okay. What did you do after that? After that, we already went to research -- that was in 1939 -- the application research laboratory. And did you do research? Yeah, that's what you'd call it. Okay. Then what type of research did you do? Well, there were the two main areas that we addressed ourselves to. One was wood preservation, using pentachlorophenol. Do you know how to spell these words? Okay. If you can do that, then -- P-o-n-t-a- -- chloro -- c-h-l-o-r-o- -- phenol -- p-h-e-n-o-1, pentachlorophenol. Thank you. Which was a wood preserver against REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 13 1 A. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 Q. 20 21 22 A. 23 Not PCB, but PC tree -- three. You're familiar with what I'm saying? Aroclor -- that was our trade name -- A-r-o-c-l-o-r. The product was 5460. That identified it. It's a solid. It's a resin. The fifty-four hundred identifies it as a derivative terphenyl, t-e-r-p-h-e-n-y-1. And the sixty percent is chlorination by weight, and the four -- the second four -- indicates that it is a distilled material. Or this is a resin, and the answer to your question. I employed that on a wood-treating formulation to -- specifically to treat window frames and sash, where the active ingredient was the pentane. which we already spoke of. Okay. After your work in applications research, what did you next do with Monsanto? From there -- I believe it was 1942, perhaps even in Ml -- I was asked to REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 Q. 6 A. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Q. 14 A. 15 Q. 16 17 18 A. 19 20 Q. 22 Q. 23 termites and fungus, blue mold, rotter organisms, superficial mold. The other area of activity there was on plasticizers. What do you mean by plasticizers? Well, if you have a resin -- as to pick one, like polyvinyl chloride, which is very common -- that's a solid. And to make it into a film, you have to add a plasticizer to make this solid pliable and flexible like a piece of paper or vinyl plastic. Okay. , A plasticizer softens a resin. How long did you work in the research -- in the research -- application research area? I worked there until -- X would say until the end of 1941 or -- Okay. ' -- 1942. Did any of the work that you did in applications research involve PCBs? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 14 1 2 3 4 5 Q. 6 A. 7 8 9 10 Q. 11 12 A. 13 14 Q. 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 Q. 20 21 22 A. 23 Q. join and work for Mr. Lynn Watt, the head of the development department of the organic chemicals division, all of this on South Second Street. What were you asked to do for Mr. Watt? I had a -- my own laboratory, and I performed the laboratory work for the organic chemical division's requirements. When you say you performed laboratory work, what would you do? I would do any lab work that's required. Okay. Application, analytical. And did you report directly to Mr. Watt? Yes. Okay. And did any of the work that you did -- the laboratory work that you did in that capacity involve PCBs? Yes, to a slight degree. Can you explain what you mean? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 4 15 16 HARTOLDMON0013612 1 A. 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Q. 15 16 A. 17 18 19 20 Q. 21 A, 22 23 Q, DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS On behalf of Anniston, I was asked to do some routine analytical work. checking certain physical constants of several Aroclor, A-r-o-c-l-o-r, products. MR. ATKIN: Okay. You know what. we're going to just -- Yeah, we*re going to go off the record for a second. (Discussion held off the record*) MR. ATKIN: okay. We're back on the record. I'm sorry. You were telling us about the work that you did on behalf of Anniston? Yes. It didn't amount to much. I checked several physical constants on Aroclor products. exact ones. I don't recall the Okay. What do you -- But I remember it was done for Anniston. What do you mean by checked the REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 17 1 A. 2 Q. 3 A. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 15 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 A. 21 22 23 Yes. Okay. Watt provided the money and the wherewithal for having toxicological work done on behalf of Anniston. And I think by then, Krummrlch was producing -- not in 1935, I don't think -- but in the war period, Krummrich was established to have two independent sources of supply. Okay. Do you know approximately when this toxicological work began, in so far as it relates to Anniston because I know that you were thinking that Krummrich didn't come on board until later. But -- I think that's right. Okay. When did the toxicological work regarding -- Well, my estimation of this -- I wasn't connected with it, but I heard about it. I heard about Kettering, Keyhole labs, and so on and so forth. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 A, 6 7 8 Q. 9 10 11 A. 12 Q. 13 A. 14 15 16 Q. 17 A. 18 Q. 19 A. 20 22 23 Q. physical constants? Determined them, measured them. Do you recall what types of physical constants you checked and determined? Density and -- Well, certain routine things. I don't remember what they all were. Did you do any work at that time as part of your laboratory work regarding the;toxicity of PCB3? I did not, but that's a good question. Thank you. For thi3 reason: Mr. Watt, my boss. hired Dr. Kelly, who I believe came in 1935. I'm not sure of that. What wa3 Dr. Kelly's first name? Emmet. Okay. And he was the medical director. And later on, an early assistant was Elmer Wheeler, who wa3 an industrial hygienist reporting to Dr. Kelly. And did Dr. Kelly report to Mr. Watt? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 18 1 Q. 2 A. 3 4 5 Q. 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 A. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Q. 19 A. 20 21 Q. 22 A. 23 Okay. And when I heard that -- I would say it was around 1943, and that's as close as I can estimate it. Okay. Do you know what type of work wa3 done? Yeah. Can you tell us about that? Well, it was toxicological work. It started the toxicity, the vapor. They exposed animals, rabbits, rat3, and dogs -- I think soma monkeys -- to the vapors of PCB3 emitted at elevated temperatures. You don't have any -- much vapor pressure of PCB3 at room temperature, and they did some skin toxicity tests. On the animals? Yes, and also on -- on humans -- No, wait a minute. Yeah, on humans too. Where was that done? That was done, as I recall, at the Barnard Free Skin and Cancer Hospital REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 5 19 20 HARTOLDMON0013613 1 2 Q. 3 A. 5 S Q. 7 8 A. 9 10 11 12 13 14 Q. 15 A. 16 17 Q. 18 A. 19 Q. 20 A. 21 22 23 Q. DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS in St. Louis. Do you know when that was done? Hell, approximately -- This time, it went on for a number of years. This was various -- long-time testing. Do you know what the results were of the skin toxicity tests that were done? Yeah, X know the result that was. The result was that the Aroclor 1254, fifty-four percent chlorination, was neither a skin irritant nor a skin sensitizer in accordance with a standard skin-testing procedure. And who made that determination? As X already indicated, the Barnard Free Skin and Cancer Hospital. Can you -- Is Barnard, B-a-r-n-a-r-d? Right. Okay. Free Cancer and Skin? Free Cancer and Skin, right. It was a free hospital. People who had cancer could be treated there free of charge. This is in St. Louis? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 21 1 2 3 4 5 A. 6 7 8 9 Q. 10 11 A. 12 13 14 15 16 Q. 17 18 19 20 A. 21 22 23 Q. regarding studying the vapor and the effects of the vapor on rata and rabbits. This is back in the 1940s, correct? That's my estimation of it, yea. because I'm estimating this from the standpoint as to where I was at that time, not that I was involved in this. Right. You weren't personally involved in this? I was not personally involved, so it's hearsay on my part. But as best I can answer your question, it is -- I said, I think, '43. It would be in that time frame. Okay. Did you ever learn what the results were of the toxicological testing that was being done on the rats and rabbits at that time? Well, this isn't expressed in terms of LD-50s. Is that clear in your mind? It's not in mine -- in my mind. Well, why don't you tell us what your REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 A. 2 3 Q. 4 A. 5 Q. 6 7 8 9 A. 10 11 12 Q. 13 A. 14 15 16 Q. 17 18 19 A. 20 22 Q. 23 Yes. It was very competent -- a very fine hospital on cancer. Is it still in existence? Do you know? Yeah, I think so. Okay. Do you re -- Do you know the names of the physicians at the Barnard Free Cancer who were involved in this -- in this study? I -- I'm not sure because I wasn't there. I don't know which doctors did this. Okay. They had a research laboratory. It wasn't all medical. It was some research work. I know that. Do you recall the names of anyone at Barnard Free Cancer and Skin Hospital who was involved in this study? Well, you keep saying who was involved. I can't answer that because I don't know specifically. Okay. That's fine, you said that there was toxicological work done also REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 22 1 2 3 A. 4 5 6 Q. 7 8 9 10 11 A. 12 13 14 15 16 17 Q. 18 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 A. 23 best understanding of what the LD-50 means? Well, that was an expression of -- They had an expression, LD-50. I'm sorry. I don't really know what it is. Okay. That'3 fine. As far as you know, though, wa3 the determination of the LD-50, was that the essence or the purpose of the testing that was done -- toxicity testing done at that time? That was an expression that meant something to the people in connection with this work. It was an expression ' that dealt with the amount required to cause a threshold exposure or something like that. Caused a certain number of deaths in the study animals? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. I don't know. I wasn't in that. Okay. I merely answered your question. I am . not a toxicologist. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 6 23 24 HARTOLDMON0013614 1 Q. 2 A. 3 Q. 5 6 7 A. a q. 9 A. 10 Q. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 A. 18 19 20 Q. 21 22 A. 23 Q. DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS I understand. Okay. And I also understand that you did not -- you were not personally involved in any toxicological work that was done -- That's correct. -- on PCBs; is that right? That's correct. Okay. Other than the testa that were done on the rats and rabbits and -- to determine the LD-50 and the skin toxicity tests that you told us about, were there any other tests being done in the 1940s at Monsanto with regard to PCBs? Well, this test wasn't done at Monsanto. As I told you, it was done in toxicological laboratories. Right. But was it a test that was being done on behalf of Monsanto? Yes. Okay. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 25 1 Q. 2 A. 3 Q. 4 A. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Q. 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 20 21 22 23 Q. Okay. -- originally. Who were they? Well, I'll mention names. Harold Bible was one. They were the officers of Anniston. You're aware that Mr. Queeny bought Anniston, and they moved these people, the management, from Anniston to St. Louis in 1935. So it was management people and technical people and marketing people -- very fine people. Okay. What did you -- What did you do for the inorganic chemicals division? Pardon? I'm sorry. What did you do for the inorganic chemicals division? Oh. My specific assignment -- and this was quite specific -- was to work on PCBs for nonelectrical uses. I'm differentiating here as versus dielectric applications and uses. Okay. What work did you actually do? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 A. 2 Q. 3 4 5 A. SQ. 7 A. 8 Q. 9 10 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 A. 15 16 Q. 17 A. 18 19 20 22 23 My bos3 paid for it. Okay. Were there any other types of toxicity testing being done in the 1940s regarding Aroclors? Not to my knowledge. Okay. I think that's correct. Okay. How long were you involved in the position -- in the laboratory work that you did for the organic chemicals department? The development department. Thank you. I was involved there until 1947, October. What did you do then? I left the organic chemicals division, and I was asked -- I was invited by the inorganic chemicals division to join them. I knew them very well. They were in St. Louis in the same building, and these were people from Anniston -- REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 26 1 A. 2 3 4 Q. .5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 A. 9 910 11 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 A. 17 18 19 Q. 20 A. 21 q. 22 A. 23 Q. I did not do any lab work. I didn't have a lab then anymore. I had an office. And what did you do? Were you involved in administration? No, I was a technical person. Okay. And that pertains until I retired. So let me see if I have this straight. From the time you started working for the inorganic chemicals division, in or about October 1947 -- Yeah, -- until the time that you retired in or about 1974, right? No. I don't want to confuse you here. but I see I am. But it's not confusing -- Okay. Perhaps we -- -- if we can go slowly through this. Sure. All right. We got to 1947. Right. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 7 27 28 HARTOLDMON0013615 1 A. 2 3 Q. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 Q. 17 A. 18 19 Q. 20 A. 21 22 Q. 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS And we're up where I started with the organic chemicals division -- Okay. -- which wa3 the old Swann Chemical, if you will. And I was there -- to go ahead and clarify this -- until# I would say 1951. Then, I was moved back -- At the behest of a new president, I was moved back to the organic chemicals division. And PCBs -- I merely went along. PCBs were moved from the inorganic division# and they came under the organic division now. And I was asked to go along# so that clarifies this. Okay. And then X was again with the organic division until I retired in 1974. Okay. So that gives you the whole perspective. Okay. But from the time that you began working on PCBs, did the work that you REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 29 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 A. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 20 21 22 Q. 23 division -- Yes. And you did work on nonelectrical uses of PCBs? You've got it correct. What did you do? What did I do? I reported to Paul Long, who was the -- His title was Director of Development. And at one time, I found what my title was. I did have one. Assistant Director of Development. Mr. Long handled the inorganic chemicals of the inorganic chemical division. I was assigned to handle the Aroclor-PCB interest. Okay. When you say -- And were you involved in development -- Excuse me. I called it the development department because that was what it was called. To be more factual# we really didn't develop anything. That's what I'm trying to understand. What did you do? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 did on PCBs involve nonelectrical uses? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And that's from 1947 until the time 4 that you retired? 5 A. _ No. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. It was 1947 until I left the inorganic 8 division and was moved with the 9 products into the organic division. 10 Q. Okay. And did that work in the organic 11 division -- Did you continue to do work 12 13 . 14 15 A. regarding PCB3 in connection with when you were transferred back to the organics division? Yes. 16 Q. Okay. What did you do? 17 A. 18 Well, now we are up to -- I think we got to 1951, didn't we? 19 Q. Okay. I'm sorry, but before -- I don't 20 ' mean to interrupt. Before 1951 -- From 1947 until -- 22 A. Okay. 23 Q. -- 1951 when you were in the inorganics REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 30 1 A. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Q. IS A. 17 18 Q. 19 20 A. 21 g. 22 23 A. We did not develop anything that I can think of. What I did# to better answer your question, I pursued the applications that came to be as a result of development and uses by people in industry. They would find a use for the material, and I would acquaint myself with it as I could -- to the best of my ability and as it might be of interest to us to follow this. I'm telling you that these applications and uses were developed outside of us. We didn't develop these things. Okay. But we pursued them by way of getting acquainted. Okay. And these are for nonelectrical use3? Nonelectrical uses. What is the difference between organic chemicals and inorganic chemicals? Organic chemicals are organic. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 8 31 32 HARTOLDMON0013616 1 Q. 2 A. 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 Q. 17 A. 18 Q. 19 A. 20 21 22 23 Q. DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS '{That do you mean by that? They're not Inorganic. Okay. We are organic. We burn, don't we? That's one simple way of saying it. Inorganic are salts. They don't burn. Calcium phosphate -- Well, sodium phosphate, calcium phosphate, and these inorganic chemicals made by the inorganic chemical division of Anniston, they do not burn. They're water. Well, some are, and 3ome aren't. Organic things are -- a simple expression, wood is organic. Now you have the difference. 1 don't know that we need to go on into that. We don't need to. We don't need to. There'3 organic, and there'3 aliphatic. Okay. Do you know the difference? The organic are a ring structure. The aliphatic is a chain structure of carbon atoms. Okay. Thank you. From 1951 until the REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Q. 11 12 13 14 IS 16 A. n 18 19 20 21 Q. 22 23 . on the '47 to '51 -- MR. ATKIN: No, I think we're from '51 to -- MR. STEWART: We're past that. MR. DAVIDSON: Post '51? MR. STEWART: Post *51. THE WITNESS: We're past -- We hit '51 when I left the -- MR. ATKIN: We're on a roll. I guess my question is -- The question I have now is: Was there anyone at Monsanto or a department at Monsanto that was responsible for doing its own product development regarding PCBs specifically? I'm inclined -- Well, I will 3ay yes affirmatively. Yes, the organic division had departments, development and marketing, and so on and so forth. And should I go on from there now? Well, maybe I can help you. MR. DAVIDSON: Let him a3k the question. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 3 4 A* 5 Q. 6 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 Q. 2n 22 23 time that you retired, you were back doing work under the organics department, correct? Yes. Okay. And is it the same type of work that you just described to us, in other words, regarding product development? I told you, we didn't develop anything. Right, right. But, I mean, it's the same type of work, in other words, where customers would come up with applications -- Yes. -- or ideas for the product? Yes, yes. You understand it. Then you would evaluate or assess that; is that right? Yes. Okay. Did Monsanto have a -- MR. DAVIDSON: Excuse me. Jack. I'm a little confused about what time you were asking about then. Are you still REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 34 1 Q. 2 3 4 5 A. 6 7 8 9 10 Q. 11 A. 12 Q. 13 A. 14 Q. 15 A. 16 17 A. 18 19 20 21 22 Q. 23 When you 3ay developments, was there a specific area within the organics division that was responsible for developing products containing PCBs? No, they had laboratories. There was a plasticizer laboratory where they tasted plasticizers in which PCBs in various ways functioned as a plasticizer and -- What did they test them for? What? What did they test them for? The plasticizers? The PCBs, specifically? Oh, the PCBs. MR. DAVIDSON: If you know. I don't know specifically, but I answered the question in a general way by saying PCB3 are known plasticizers for various resins, so that's a general response. Okay. Other than testing of plasticizers, was there anyone in the REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 9 35 36 HARTOLDMON0013617 1 2 3 5 6 A. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Q. 14 A. 15 16 17 Q. 18 19 20 21 A. 22 Q. 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS organic division or a department within the organic division that was specifically charged with or had responsibility for developing products that would contain PCBs? X would say yes. Not products that Monsanto sold, but probing the use of plasticizers of interest to Monsanto, which Monsanto made, to see their applicability in the plastics industry. They probed us. We didn't sell plastics. Okay. Monsanto had a plastic division at Springfield and so forth. Thi3 was a plasticizer laboratory. Did that -- that area or that department within that organic division that was responsible for probing the use of plasticizers -- Yes. Was that -- Did it have a specific name, that department? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 37 1 Q. 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 6 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 A. 11 12 13 Q. 14 A. 15 16 Q. 17 18 19 20 21 A. 22 Q. 23 A. Is that the way he was known? Was that his reputation? You heard it. I heard it from you just now. Okay. Mr. Darby, at some point in time, was the head of the plasticizer laboratory; is that right? Yeah, that was what he did. Okay. Do you know from when to when? No, I didn't -- I think you just now said that you thought 1951. I was not associated with this anymore. Okay. Other people can answer that specifically. Do you know the names, other than Mr. Darby, the names of anyone else who headed the plasticize -- plasticizer laboratory from 1951 to 1974, the time you retired? Who headed it? I think Darby. Just Darby? I think. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 A. 2 3 Q. 4 5 6 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 A. 12 Q. 13 A. 14 Q. 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 20 Q. 22 23 It was known to me as the plasticizer laboratory. Okay. Who headed that laboratory in 19517 And actually, can you tell us, if you could, who headed it from 1951 until -- Was it still in existence in 1974 when you left? X would think 30. Okay. Can you tell us who headed that plast -- Well, Joe Darby. Joel? Joe. Joe. Joe Darby? Darby, yeah. Was he In charge of that plasticizer laboratory in 1951? He was connected with it. I don't know if he was in charge of it. Okay. Do you know -- Joe Darby and his -- No, wait a minute. Joe Darby and his college of plasticizer knowledge. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 38 1 Q. 2 A. 3 Q. 4 A. S Q. 6 A. 7 8 Q. 9 10 11 A. 12 13 14 Q. 15 A. 16 17 18 Q. 19 A. 20 21 22 23 Okay. I think he -- Well -- I*ra sorry. I -- I think he's still alive, as I am. Okay. Do you know where he,lives? Last I knew, he lived in St. Louis. I don't know. Okay. Prom 1951 until the time that you retired, what type of work were you doing, you specifically? From -- I would say 1951, when PCBs were moved back to the organic division, I did go along.. Right. I could have stayed with the southern gentlemen from Anniston. I wa3 invited to, but I went to the organic division. Okay. What did you do there? And a change had occurred. Dr. Jenkins, Russell Jenkins, in Anniston, the Director of Research, had handled the dielectric technology with the Inventors and the owners of the use REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. iq 39 40 HARTOLDMON0013618 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Q. 15 A. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS patents for the dielectric technology. specifically, the dielectric food and capacitors and transformers. Now, this work and communication between Jenkins and Frank Clark, the inventor -- Frank Clark was a GE at Litchfield. Now, when Aroclor was moved out of the inorganic division to the organic division, Dr. Jenkins was moved from Anniston, where he was Director of Research. He was moved into the research department under Dr. Krydis, K-r-y-d- -- I think, i-s -- Krydis. Okay. And that left a void. And what happened, I was asked to meet Frank Clark and his people from General Electric Company. And their request wa3 that X should join the American Society for Testing and Materials where they were active and also become active in the International Electrotechnical Commission, which is work of interests REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 41 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q. 10 11 A. 12 13 14 15 16 17 Q. 18 19 20 21 A. 22 Q. 23 A. documenting the test procedures specifically, in great detail, every I dotted, every T crossed, the test procedure specified officially, that shall be used to characterize the materials part. And the materials part was the synthetic dielectrics of the askarel class. That i3 what ASTM did. Okay. And why were you asked to get involved with that? Because that was what I was supposed to help do on behalf of the electrical industry and our own interests as manufacturers. We didn't make capacitors or transformers, but we made askarel. Okay. And was there representation at ASTM on behalf of other companies in the electrical -- of companies in the electrical industry, among GE and -- Oh, yes, that's what it was all about. Okay. This wa3 the electrical industry -- REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 Q. 8 9 A. 10 Q. 11 A. 12 Q. 13 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 20 Q. 22 23 along these lines worldwide, and also participate the various degree in the I triple E, the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers. Well, I got the message, and that's what I did as a technical person. Did that work specifically involve PCBs? Sure, that's what it was. Okay. Askarel is the generic name. And did ASTM have -- Withdrawn. What was ASTM's interest in askarel? Well, I'll tell you what ASTM did. Okay. Before you do that -- I'm sorry. Can you tell us what ASTM is? American Society for Testing and Materials. Okay. ' I emphasized testing to answer your question. That mean3 they were responsible for developing and REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 42 1 2 3 Q. 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 a 9 10 A. 11 Q. 12 13 14 A. 15 16 17 18 Q. 19 A. 20 21 22 23 Q. committee and subcommittee B of section D-7, I think was the official name. Okay. And that's what you did until you retired? Essentially, yes. Okay. You told us a little bit earlier about your knowledge of certain toxicity testing that was done on PCBs in the 1940s. Do you remember that? Yes. Okay. Do you recall whether toxicity testing on PCBs was done at Monsanto during the 1950s? I don't believe so because what I'm thinking of should have been completed by then. Maybe it wasn't. I don't know. I wasn't in that area. Okay. I've been close to the medical department earlier, but at this stage, I wa3 in there connected with the electrical business. Okay. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. n 43 44 HARTOLDMON0013619 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS 1 A. 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 Q. 11 12 13 A. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 A. 23 And incidently, when you asked about this, we already saidthe work wasn't done at Monsanto. It was done on behalf of Monsanto by toxicological laboratories. What I wish to say now is that this was on behalf of the electrical industry also. And they knew the resultsand thefindings, etcetera. Okay. And that's because the results and the findingswere shared with them; is that right? Yes. MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. THE WITNESS: Huh? MR. DAVIDSON: I just entered an objection to a leading question. THE WITNESS: Oh. MR. ATKIN: Well, okay. That's all right. Excuse me. What I wanted to say is that they were aware of this as well as REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 45 1 2 3 4 Q. 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 A. 9 10 11 Q. 12 A. 13 Q. 14 15 16 A. 17 Q. 18 19 A. 20 Q. 21 22 23 emeritus. THE WITNESS: You don't have to put that down. Okay. What did you do as a consultant during that six-month period? I did next to nothing. Okay. I was -- I gave you an answer. I wasn't being 30 facetious when I told you. I understand. You understand? X do. And did you receive a regular -- your regular salary during that time period? Yes. Okay. Do you know how much it was at that time? No. Okay. You've given -- Well, before X ask the next question, let me just tell you, if you need to take a break at any point in time, just let me know, okay? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 3 Q. 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 A. 8 Q. 9 A. 10 Q. 11 12 A. 13 14 Q. 15 16 A. 17 Q. 18 19 A. 20 Q. 22 23 Monsanto. Monsanto was not alone in this. Okay. After leaving Monsanto, did you work for anybody else? Are you kidding? Is that a no? Yes. Yes, it's a no? Yes, it's a no. Okay. Why did you leave Monsanto? Just to retire? Retire -- mandatory retirement. It was the law of the land, out at sixty-five. Okay. And you're not presently employed, are you? No. Okay. After leaving Monsanto, did you ever do any consulting work for them? I did some consulting work, yes. When was that? From 1974 for six months, I think it was. It took them six months to retire me. By this time, I was employee REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 46 1 A. 2 Q. 3 4 A. 5 6 7 Q. 8 A. 9 Q. 10 A. ii 12 13 Q. 14 A. 15 Q. 16 17 IS 19 A. 20 Q. 21 A. 22 Q. 23 All right. That's no problem. And are you on any medications today? I take some inhalants. 1 take -- doctor -- I am on Atrovent. Are you familiar with that? A little. A little. Do you know what it is? Well, it's an inhaler, right? Yes, Atrovent, and another thing. Beclovent, which expands the tube going into the lung. Okay. It facilitates breathing. Do either of those medications interfere with your ability to understand any of ray questions here today? No. Good Heavens. They have no effect on -- They don't Interfere with anything. Okay. Good. So if I ask you a question, and you answer it, I'm going REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 12 47 48 HARTOLDMONO013620 1 2 3 A. 5 Q. 6 7 A. a Q. 9 A. 10 Q. 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 15 A. 16 n Q. 18 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS to assume that you understood my question, okay? Well, if 1 don't, I'll try to ask you to repeat it. Excellent. Thank you. Have you ever testified before? Yes. Okay. At depositions? Tes, like this. Like this here today. Have you also testified at trial? No. Okay. How many depositions did you testify in? My guess is perhaps six or seven, something like that. And was all the testimony that you gave in those six or seven cases -- Was that in connection with PCB litigation? Yes. Okay. And was all of the testimony that you gave subsequent to the time - that you retired from Monsanto? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 49 1 2 Q. 3 4 A. S Q. 6 7 8 9 A. 10 11 12 Q. 13 A. 14 15 Q. 16 A. 17 18 Q. 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 23 A. believe. Okay. And how long did your deposition last? A day, not over a day. Okay. And do you recall when -- Withdrawn. Do you recall the names of any other cases that you gave testimony in? Well, I'll do my be3t. I don't catalog these things in my mind. I'll do ray best. Thank you. One was a Cecil Scott case. That dealt with Westinghouse. Okay. Any others that you can recall? Yeah, there was a Gerard Hopkins case on the west coast. Do you recall when you gave testimony in the Cecil Scott case? That was some years ago. When you say some years, can you give us a -- just your ballpark? I'll do my best. '98 -- Gee, time REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 A. 2 Q. 3 4 5 A. S Q. 7 8 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 A. 14 15 Q. 16 A. 17 Q. 18 19 A. 20 Q. 22 A. 23 Yes. Okay. When was the last time you testified in a deposition in connection with the PCB case? I think about two year3 ago. Okay. And do you recall where that case was venued? MR. DAVIDSON: That may be -- not be a term he's familiar with. Okay. Do you recall where that case was, you know, where the court -- Well, I know where I was deposed -- here. Here at this restaurant? Yeah. Do you know where the court was where that case was being heard? No. Okay. Do you recall the name of the case? Now we're getting with it. It had to do with a pipeline. Transwestern, I REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 50 1 2 Q. 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 A. 7 Q. 8 A. 9 q. 10 11 12 A. 13 14 IS Q. 16 A. 17 Q. 18 A. 19 Q. 20 21 A. 22 23 Q. flies. I would say, perhaps, '93. Okay. What about the Hopkins case? Do you know when that was? That was later. Okay. How much later? Call it two years later. Perhaps 1995? Perhaps. Okay. Do you recall the names of any of the other cases? You told us about three cases so far. There was a case about a -- It involved an insurance company. It Involved a building in Jacksonville, Florida. Wa3 that a PCB ca3e? Yeah. Okay. That's what they called it. Okay. Do you remember the name of that case? No, I don't. But I know what it was about. What was it about? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 13 51 52 HARTOLDMONO013621 1 A. 2 3 5 6 7 Q. 8 9 A. 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 15 A. 16 17 Q. 18 A. 19 Q. 20 A. 21 22 Q. 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS Somebody took It upon himself to replace the askarel transformers that were running In splendid condition. They replaced those transformers with non-PCB transformers, and then they wanted somebody to pay for this. Was Monsanto a defendant in that case, to your knowledge? Well, I was called. I was deposed, so X suppose. I don't know what happened. Okay. That's fine. You told us about Smith, Scott, Hopkins, and the insurance company case. Do you recall the others that you gave testimony in? There wa3 some others. There was one in Ida -- Nevada. Wa3 that a Nevada Power ca3e? Yeah, yes, sir. Okay. Any others? Well, I don't think we got up to six or 3even. I'm not sure. Okay. That's fine. Let me ask you this: In connection with the testimony REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 53 1 A. 2 Q. 3 A. 4 5 6 7 A. 8 9 10 11 12 13 Q. 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 A. 18 19 Q. 20 21 22 23 In the morning, it was. Okay. Just in the morning? They didn't take me to lunch, so -- MR. STEWART: They're cheap. MR. ATKIN: We'll keep that off the record. So it went through twelve o'clock. should I say, when they left shortly after twelve o'clock. MR. DAVIDSON: We were afraid y'all would blame us for taking -- Okay. Did you review any documents with them when you met yesterday? They showed me some documents. Okay. Do you recall which ones? No, I have no way to recall the documents. Okay. And so when we go through some of the documents, I'll show you -- I'll ask you about them and whether you actually looked at them yesterday. Okay? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 A. 12 Q. 13 A. 14 Q. 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 Q. 20 A. 22 A. 23 Q. that you gave in those cases, the depositions, did you receive any kind of compensation from Monsanto? No. Okay. Are you receiving any type of compensation for -- in connection with today'3 appearance? No, sir. Okay. Did you meet with anyone to prepare for your testimony here today? Yes. Who did you meet with? The two gentlemen here. Okay. And when did you meet with them? Yesterday. Okay. Who are you referring to, by the way? Buddy Cox -- Okay. -- and Gerard Davidson. Okay. And you met with them yesterday? Yes. How long did you meet for? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 54 1 A. 2 Q. 3 4 A. S Q. 6 7 A. 8 9 Q. 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 A. 15 Q. 16 A. 17 Q. 18 19 A. 20 Q. 21 22 A. 23 Fine. Okay. Do you receive a pension from Monsanto? Ye3. Okay. . Is it from Monsanto, or is it from Solutia? You're right. It's Solutia. Excuse me. Okay. How much is your pension? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. All right. Do you receive any other types of benefits from Monsanto other than besides your pension? No, no. Okay. What about health benefits? Oh, yes. I have the insurance you get. Okay. If you get hungry and you want to take a break, you let me know, okay? I'm not hungry. Okay. If you get tired, you let me know, and we'll take a break. Okay? All right. MR. ATKIN: Okay. I'm going to REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 14 55 56 HARTOLDMONO013622 1 2 3 5 6 7 a 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 Q. 20 21 A. 22 Q. 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS mark this for identification purposes as Banignus One. This is a December 5th, 1969 memo from Mr. Benignua to D. A. Olson. And it bears Bate's Number 1002562570. (Benignua Exhibit Number One was marked for identification.) I would ask you to just take your time and review it, if you could? MR. ATKIN: Am I boring you, Donald? Okay. Okay. Mr. Benignu3, do you recall this letter? Yes. Okay. Did you see that letter yesterday when you met with the -- Yes. -- attorneys. Okay. Who is Mr. D. A. Olson? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 57 1 2 3 4 Q. 5 A. 6 7 3 9 Q- 10 A. 11 12 Q. 13 14 15 16 A. 17 Q. 18 19 A. 20 21 22 23 his name. Oh, that 3ays his initials. Okay. Kountz was an engineer. Kuhn -- Kuhn, I imagine he was -- I'm not sure. Okay. Munch -- that's Dr. Ralf Munch. He was in the research department. Richard -- Bill Richard, he was the director of the research department. Okay. Jim Bryant was in the marketing department. Okay. Why -- Withdrawn. As part of your job at this time in 1969, did you have interactions with the marketing department? I was in it. You were part of the marketing department at that time? Yes, that's how one would call it. I was a technical person in the marketing department. Although I was the -- designated as a marketing manager, I was a technical person. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 A. 2 3 Q. 4 5 A. 6 v Q. 8 9 A. 10 11 Q. 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 A. 20 Q. 22 Q. 23 A. D. A. Olson is in the marketing department. Okay. What was his title in the marketing department? Do you know? He was an assistant to the -- to Bergen, who is the manager. I'm sorry. I didn't catch that -- the end of that. Bergen, Howard Bergen. He's on head distribution. H. S. B-e-r-g-e-n. Okay. Mr. Olson worked under Mr. Bergen; is that right? Yeah, that's correct. Okay. Why don't you tell us about who the other people are in this letter? Who's Mr. Kun? Kuhn was -- Or is it Kuhn? He's an engineer. Okay. Wait a minute. Kountz was an engineer. Okay. Who is Kuhn? Kuhn -- I'm trying to read what'3 after REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 58 1 Q. 2 ' 3 A. 4 5 Q. 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 10 11 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 17 18 A. 19 20 21 Q. 22 A. 23 Q. Okay. What do you mean by a technical person? Exactly what it says. I'm not a salesman. Okay. Now, you state in the first paragraph of this letter -- Yes. Over six months ago, we pointed out impending need for Monsanto to provide an incinerator either on Monsanto property or elsewhere to effectively dispose of scrap Aroclor. That'3 correct. Okay. Why was there an impending need at that time for Monsanto to have an incinerator to properly dispose of PCBs? Because at this time frame, 1969, scrap Aroclor was scheduled, let me say, to arrive from industry at Monsanto -- Where -- -- to get rid of it. Where at Monsanto? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 15 59 60 HARTOLDMONO013623 1 A. 2 3 Q. 5 6 7 Q. 8 9 10 11 A. 12 Q. 13 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 19 20 21 22 A. 23 Q. DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS This would have been directed to the Krummrich plant. Okay. I'm saying that in deference to Anniston. It wouldn't have gone to Anniston. Okay. And so, if I understand you correctly, because scrap Aroclor was scheduled to arrive at the Krummrich plant -- Anticipated, yes. -- anticipated to arrive; therefore. you:felt a need that there should be an incinerator to take care of that -- Exactly. -- scrap PCB? Okay. At this time, when you wrote this letter, December 5th, 1969, had any customers already begun shipping scrap Aroclor to Monsanto's Krummrich facility? X doubt it. Okay. Did that subsequently take place REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 61 1 2 Q. 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 7 8 9 10 11 A. 12 Q. 13 A. 14 15 16 17 18 Q. 19 A. 20 Q. 21 A. 22 23 best way to do it. yes, incinerate it. Okay. In the -- In the next paragraph. the second paragraph -- Uh-huh (indicating yes). -- you say: We were surprised to learn at a meeting last Wednesday that thi3 request has not received support. First of all, when you say that we were surprised, who are you referring to? We. I was one. Anybody else? Well, I guess -- yes, the people around there that would be interested in this. I don't know exactly who to nominate here. Munch and the people of distribution. Those are the we's. Okay. Yep, What was Munch's title? Director -- Munch was a technologist -- Dr. Munch was a technologist in research under Dr. Richard. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 A. 5 6 7 8 Q. 9 A. 10 11 12 Q. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Q. 22 Q. 23 A. at some point in time? Yes. Okay. And when did that start? Well, Monsanto went out of the offering, supplying nonelectrical use. PCB3 in 1970. So you see, December 5, '69, that's pretty close. Uh-huh (indicating yes). And that is what the tenor -- the situation was when I passed this information along. Okay. Now, when you -- When you discussed the fact that the impending need for Monsanto to provide an incinerator to disclose of the scrap Aroclor, was that because you believed that incineration was the best method for disposing of PCBs? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. you can answer. X can answer? yeah. I would say that would have been the REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 62 1 Q. 2 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 A. 10 11 Q. 12 13 A. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 So when you say we were surprised, you are referring to yourself and Dr. Munch? And Richard -- Dr. Richard, Jim Bryant. And what kind of doctor was Dr. Richard? Chemistry, I think. Okay. Bergen, who was the director of the department. Okay. Why did you write thi3 letter to Olson? He was -- His job, as I already said. was in marketing. A -- I think he was an assistant to Bergen at that time. Yeah, he was -- Well, he was the assistant to Howard Bergen. He wa3 the man best to address it to. There's only one person in the whole thing here who should do and is going to have to do something, and that's the engineer, Kountz. I couldn't build an incinerator. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 16 63 64 HARTOLDMONO013624 1 Q. 2 3 5 A. 6 7 8 Q. 9 A. 10 U Q. 12 A. 13 Q. 14 15 16 17 18 A. 19 20 21 22 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS Why didn't you -- I guess what I'm trying to get at is: Why didn't you address the letter to Kountz as opposed to Mr. Olson? Oh, it is addressed to Kountz. Yes, sir. It's a polite way. That's why he'a on here. Okay. It was sort of a boost, as one would : say, politely done. Okay. Get that incinerator going. All right. In the third paragraph, you say -- You refer to the fact that you anticipated that Monsanto would have to dispose of a million pounds of askarels a year. That i3 Bryant's estimate from -- He was a salesman, a specialty -- specialized salesman, I should 3ay. He wa3 calling on electrical industry, and this is his estimated -- Obviously, it comes from the electrical industry. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 65 1 Q. 2 3 A. 4 5 Q. 6 7 8 9 10 A. ii 12 Q. 13 14 A. 15 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 Q. 20 21 22 A. 23 What do you mean by distillation of PCB scrap? Well, distill -- Excuse me. Is your question: What is distill? No. My question is: What -- When you said that a certain amount, apparently seven hundred thousand pounds, would hopefully be incinerated and distilled. what did you mean by that? Oh, I didn't say that. That would be -- Oh, I'm sorry. Withdrawn. You're absolutely right. Yeah, yeah. I understand. Okay. You're all right. Yeah, okay. Right. When you say that seven hundred thousand pounds -- Yeah, okay. -- would be returned to the plants and distilled, what did you mean by it? What did you mean by that? That is basically taking this, in quote, 3crap -- Now, the scrap here REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 Q. 2 3 4 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 9 10 11 12 A. 13 14 15 16 Q. 17 A. 18 19 Q. 20 22 23 A. All right, okay. And then, apparently. of that million pounds, in the fourth paragraph, you say three hundred thousand pounds needs to be incinerated. Yeah, that's what I say. Okay. Now, why would Monsanto only have to incinerate three hundred thousand pounds if in the previous paragraph, you stated that it had to dispose of a million pounds? The answer to that is another estimation, and the estimation is that the incinerator would destroy three hundred thousand pounds. Okay. And the -- Then it goes on to speak about the remainder. Okay. And you say the remainder can be returned -- hopefully can be returned to Monsanto's plants and distilled. correct? Yes, that's what it says. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 66 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ii 12 Q. 13 A. 14 Q. 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 19 20 21 22 A. 23 Q. implies scrap relative to the electrical industry, I would say, which has to be of a very high degree of refinement, impurity. We can go into depth into this if you want to. . Now, what is being implied here is that three hundred thousand pounds will be destroyed. It's gone. The remainder, as you say, seven hundred thousand pounds, would be run through a still to brush it up, to clean it up. We're talking liquid PCBs? Yes, we're talking strictly liquid. Okay. Yes, you're right. Okay. Now, once the process got underway and Monsanto, in fact, started to take back scrap from its customers, wa3 the remaining, approximately seven hundred thousand pounds a year, distilled? Was it, in fact, distilled? I don't know the answer to that. Okay. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 17 67 68 HARTOLDMONO013625 1 A. 2 Q. 3 5 A. 6 7 Q. 8 9 A. 10 Q. 11 A. 12 13 Q. 14 15 A. 16 17 18 19 Q. 20 21 22 A. 23 Q. DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS I was not in the plant. Okay. Do you know what effect, if any, the distillation process has on PCB scrap waste? Well, it would -- The term they used, it's one way of cleaning it up. Cleaning it up. What do you mean by that? Purifying it. Purifying it from what? Well, that's a good question. From contaminants, whatever they might be. Do you know what contaminants might be in existence in PCBs? Not -- You're going to have to ask specifically. Where did it come from? I don't know where this scrap came from. But, in general, are you aware of the possibility that contaminants could exist in P -- in manufactured PCBs? In manufactured PCB3? In PCBs? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 69 1 2 3 Q. 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 12 13 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 A. 18 19 20 21 22 23 decisions by the people in the organic division and the nonelectrical area. Hava you ever heard of the possibility of the existence of dibenzofurans -- Ye3. -- and dibenzodioxin3 in PCBs? MR. DAVIDSON: Let me object. Di- what? Dioxins. MR. DAVIDSON: Wait a minute. Just let me object to the question. MR. ATKIN: Okay. You may answer. May I? Yes. There is no evidence that -- You're talking about damaged PCB as a result of overheating and partial pyrolysis. Under those very high temperature conditions -- I'll answer your question. Yes, that can lead to the formation of chlorobenzofurans, REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 A. 2 Q. 3 A. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Q. 14 A. 15 16 17 18 Q. 19 20 22 A. 23 That we supply? Yes. No, there are no impurities in what we supplied. It was all made to the electrical grade specification, which we already discussed in terms of ASTM and requirements, which are very exacted. Everything wa3 manufactured to those specifications, so any contamination that occurred didn't occur at Monsanto. It occurred somewhere in the industry. Okay. And what this contamination was, you would have to probe these things, which, of course, I don't do. I didn't know where this stuff came from. Okay. And after the PCB scrap was distilled, or a portion of it was distilled, what happened to -- What happened to it? It didn't go in the electrical industry. What it was used for was REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 70 1 2 3 4 Q. 5 6 A. 7 Q. ' 8 A. 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 15 16 A. 17 18 Q. 19 20 21 22 23 correct. There is no evidence of any dioxin ever occurring as a result of this. Okay. Is there evidence of the development or formation of furans? Yes. Okay. Under these very high temperature conditions that are destructive to the PCB. Okay. Do you know if any testing was done at Monsanto's facilities and Krummxich in Anniston to determine whether or not furans were being created during the manufacture of PCBs? During the manufacture? No, it wasn't created there. Okay. Do you know if any -- Do you know whether PCBs -- Withdrawn. Do you know whether Monsanto ever did any testing to determine whether or not furans were ever released from any of the scrap PCB that Monsanto took REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 18 71 i 72 HARTOLDMONO013626 1 2 A. 3 5 A. 6 7 Q. 8 9 10 11 A. 12 Q. 13 14 15 16 Q. 17 A. 18 19 Q. 20 A. 21 Q. 22 A. 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS back from customers? I don't know the answer to that question but -- MR. DAVIDSON: Don't speculate. I can't answer. No, I don't know the answer. Do you know whether or not Monsanto ever tested -- did any testing to determine whether any furans were created during the manufacture of PCBs? Not to my knowledge. Okay. If, in fact, that did take place, do you think you would be aware of it? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. You can answer. Whether -- Are you talking about manufacture at -- Yes. -- Monsanto? Yes. Because the furan, as far as I'm concerned, arises not from damaging the REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 73 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 0 Q. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 A. 18 19 Q. 20 21 A. 22 Q. 23 A. MR. STEWART: Can we take a short break? MR. ATKIN: Sure, absolutely. {A short break was taken.} MR. ATKIN: Okay. We're back on the record. Mr. BenignU3, in the last paragraph in this memorandum, you state: At the present time, our only means for disposal i3 to a landfill. We are warned that this will no longer be acceptable. And what I want to ask you is: When you say we are warned, who was warned? Excuse me. What did you -- I didn't get the question. Okay. It says: We are warned that this will no longer be acceptable. Oh. So I'm asking you: Who was warned? Who was warned? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 3 4 Q. 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 15 16 17 18 A. 19 20' Q. 22 23 Q. fluid at Monsanto, but from damaging it in the industry. One example would be a heat exchanger. What do you mean by that? What do you mean by a heat exchanger? A boiler, if you will. Okay. Heat transfer. And that would be one example where the possibility would exist for the creation of -- When it's overheated. No. let me just finish the question. That would be one possibility where -- for the creation of furans during the -- from PCBs, correct? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. Yes. That's one way it could, in my opinion, occur. Okay. But that has nothing to do with Monsanto. Okay. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 74 1 Q. 2 A. 3 Q. 4 A. 5 Q. 6 A. 7 Q. 8 9 A. 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 15 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 23 A. Yeah. I don't know. Generioally -- Are you referring -- -- Monsanto. -- aenerically to Monsanto? Yes. Okay. When you say we are warned, who was doing the warning? I would say that was from the EPA people. Okay. And then in the last paragraph, you indicate in the last sentence: Accordingly, Mr. Kountz will now explore incineration, and Mr. KUhn will explore distillation at our plants. Correct? Oh, ye3. Okay. Did doc -- Is it Dr. Kountz or Mr. Kountz? Mister. Did Mr. Kountz ever explore incineration options? Well, he was the guy that was told to REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 19 75 76 HARTOLDMONO013627 1 2 Q. 3 5 Q. 6 A. ^ Q. 8 9 A. 10 Q. 11 12 A. 13 14 Q15 16 A17 Q. 18 19 20 21 22 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS build an incinerator. okay. And was an incinerator, in fact, built? YG3. In Krummrich? Yea. There waa never an incinerator built in Anniston, correct? That'3 correct. Okay. Did Doctor -- la it Dr. Kuhn or Mr. Kuhn? I think Mr. Kuhn. I really don't know. See, he'a in the plant. pkay. Did he ever explore distillation -- the distillation issue? I don't know. Okay, okay. Let'a go on to the next document. MR. ATKIN: I'm going to mark this as Benignus Two for identification purposes at thi3 deposition. This ia a December 8th, 1969 REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 77 1 Q. 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 A. 15 Q. 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 A. 23 Q. Mr. Benignus, have you had a chance to look at thi3 memorandum? Yes, I'm reading it. Okay. Well, take your time. Uh-huh (indicating yea) . Okay. You've had a chance to review that document? Yes. Okay. Did you review that document yesterday when you met with Monsanto'a lawyers? I believe so. Okay. I'm not sure, but I would think so. Okay. The --- do you -- Do you recall receiving this document? Yes. Okay. And the author of this document ia Mr. Kountz that you referred to -- Yes. -- earlier? An engineer. Right. Who was N. T. Johnson? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 70 1 memorandum from Mr. Kountz 1 A. He waa sales manager for the districts. 2 to various people, 2 He wa3 in charge of the district 3 including Mr. Benignus. It 3 offices. 4 bears a Bate's Number -- 5 several different sets of 6 Bate'a Numbers. I'll U3e 7 one of them. It's 100257 8 and 100258, a two-page 9 document. 10 (Benignus Exhibit Number 4 Q. 5 A. 6 7 Q. 8 A. 9 Q. 10 Okay. And who was R. -- J. R. Fallon? He waa in the product group aa versus the district. Okay. He was in the product group. Now, in the first paragraph of this memorandum, Mr. Kountz says: And there 11 Two waa marked for 11 ia a strong feeling in some parts of 12 identification.) 13 MR. DAVIDSON: Excuse me. Is 12 our business group that incineration 13 facilities are needed for disposal of 14 this the mark? 15 THE COURT REPORTER: Uh-huh 14 contaminated Aroclor. A serious 15 question and doubt do exist as to 16 (indicating yes). 16 whether landfill is the proper disposal 17 MR. ATKIN: Okay. Let's go 17 method. Do you see that? 18 off the record for a 19 second. 18 A. 19 Q. I read it. Okay. Which parts of the business 20 (Discussion held off the 20 group had a strong feeling that record.) 22 MR. ATKIN: Okay. We're back 21 incineration facilities were need for 22 scrap PCBs? 23 on the record. 23 MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 20 79 80 HARTOLDMONO013628 1 A. 2 Q. 3 5 6 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 12 13 14 A. 15 Q. 16 17 18 19 A. 20 Q. 21 22 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS I don't know. Okay. Do you know what it was about landfilling that raised a, in quote. serious question in doubt, end quotes. as to whether it was the proper disposal method for PCBs? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. I do not know. Okay. Do you know who at Monsanto had a serious question in doubt regarding . landfills as a proper disposal method for; PCB3? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. I really don't know. Okay. Do you recall any discussions at Monsanto on that -- on that -- on that topic? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. I had none. Okay. Now, on the next page, in the first -- in the first full sentence. after the paragraph that's labeled D, it 3ays: Interest has been generated REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 81 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Q. 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 23 Let's mark Three. For the record, Benignus Three is a memorandum dated September 27th, 1974, to D. Wood from J. G. Bryant. It is a one-, two-, three-, four-, five-page memorandum. It bears Monsanto Bate's --- It bears the Bate's Number MONS 029193 through 029197. MR. DAVIDSON: Could you repeat Bate's Numbers? MR. ATKIN: Certainly. 029193 through 029197. (Benignus Exhibit Number Three was marked for identification.) If it'll expedite things a little bit. I should -- Yeah. -- tell you I'm only going to ask you questions about the contents of -- some of the contents on page two. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 A. 8 9 10 11 12 13 Q. 14 15 16 17 A. 18 19 Q. 20 A. 22 23 again in incineration, and we have started tracing our own original steps. Okay. What original steps were being traced here with regard to the incineration of -- MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. I can't answer that. I don't know. It . reflects a state of flux. It's not established, and this was not an easy thing to address. And this is an interim situation that is being reported here. Were you involved at all in the decision-making process with regard to incineration versus landfilling for PCB scrap? By now, I believe you have concluded I was not. Okay. I just wanted to clarify that. Yeah. Okay. And that's all I have on that one. MR. ATKIN: Do you have Three? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 82 1 A. 2 Q. 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Q. 15 16 A. 17 Q. 18 A. 19 Q. 20 A. 21 Q. 22 A. 23 On page two. Okay. But if you would like to read the whole document, you know, that's fine. No, let's go ahead. Okay. , MR. DAVIDSON: No, I want you to read It. MR. STEWART: Let's go off the record. (Discussion held off the record.) MR. ATKIN: Okay. We're back on the record now. Who was -- Do you recognize this document? Yes. Okay. How do you recognize it? By the people that are listed here. Okay. Did you -- I don't think I got a copy of this. Okay. Can you see the date up there, December -- September? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 21 83 84 HARTOLDMONO013629 1 Q. 2 A. 3 Q. 5 A. 6 7 Q. 8 9 10 A. 11 12 Q. 13 14 A. 15 Q. 16 A. 17 18 Q. 19 20 21 22 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS September 27th, 1974, correct? And I think we said when I was retired, Right. So you were no longer there. I3 that what you're saying? Well, X guess I wa3 sitting there somewhere. Okay. Well, let me ask you this: Did you review this document yesterday with the -- Monsanto's attorneys? I'm not actually sure, but I understand the document. Okay. But you're not sure whether you looked at this document yesterday? I'm not sure. Okay. I guess if it was of interest to the attorney, I did. Okay. This document mentions a meeting that was held to discuss the minutes of safe handling of PCB fluids and materials for disposal of waste fluids and industrial benefits of polychlorinated biphenyl dielectric REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 85 1 2 A. 3 4 Q. 5 6 A. 7 8 9 10 Q. 11 A. 12 Q. 13 A. 14 15 16 17 Q* 18 19 20 21 A. 22 Q. 23 held? Well, the subject indicates why it was held. Okay. Do you know who attended? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. Some people on here did not attend, I would say, and some did. Some weren't even with Monsanto. There were people from the industry, etcetera. And customers? Yes. Okay. One there from Canada and outside people. This reflects, see, the 17th of May -- i.e. -- see, wasn't it Raab Pittsfield? Okay. On page two of the document -- I'm going to be true to ray word and ask you about page two. If you see the first full paragraph -- Yeah. The la3t two sentences say as follows: Wheeler also reviewed the requirements REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 6 A. 7 8 Q. 9 A. 10 11 Q. 12 13 A. 14 15 IS Q. 17 18 19 20 A. 22 Q. 23 fluids. Did you participate in that -- in that meeting? Where are you reading this? That's the -- that's the heading of that document. Oh, oh, oh, I'm sorry. I would think yes. Okay. I would think, although it was very close to my retirement. Okay. Do you know who organized the meeting? Who arranged it? I -- It'3 so close to my retirement, I . hesitate that I did, but I didn't get a copy of it that I saw. Okay. But and just -- If you can just focus in on my question. I asked you: Who -- Do you know who organized the meeting? And if you don't know -- I'm not going to answer that because I don't know. That's fine. That's fine. And do you know what the -- why that meeting was REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 86 1 2 3 4 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 A. 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 Q. 20 21 22 23 A. necessary within Monsanto to produce new products. He expressed the intent of these requirements is to prevent a reoccurrence of the PCB-type situation. Do you see that? Ye3. Okay. Who is Wheeler? Wheeler was the industrial hygienist who reported to the director of -- the medical director, Dr. Emmet Kelly. Okay. Do you know what Mr. Bryant meant when he said that-- when he said that Mr. Wheeler was intending that the requirements would prevent the reoccurrence of the-PCB type situation? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection as to what Mr. Bryant would think. Okay. Do you know -- Do you know what Mr. Bryant is referring to when he 3ays that Mr. Wheeler wanted to prevent a reoccurrence of the PCB-type situation? It would be conjecture. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 22 87 88 HARTOLDMONO013630 1 2 3 5 A. 6 7 8 Q. 9 10 A. 11 Q. 12 A. 13 14 Q. 15 A. 16 17 Q. 18 19 20 21 A. 22 Q. 23 A. DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS MR. DAVIDSON: I don't want you to guess or conjecture. I just want you to answer if you know. Yeah, I don't want to guess it. I'd be guessing what's in somebody else's mind. Well, ware you at -- You were at the meeting, right? At the meeting? Yea. Were you at this meeting? I believe not because I didn't even get a copy. Okay. That's September 27, and I retired in October. Okay. Perhaps I misunderstood. I thought you had testified earlier that you believed that you did attend this meeting. This meeting? Yes. X doubt it very much. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 89 1 2 3 A. 4 Q5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Q. 12 A. 13 14 Q. 15 16 A. 17 18 19 20 Q. 21 A. 22 Q. 23 PCB-type situation? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. No. Okay. Were you aware of -- Did you ever learn of the fact that there were discussions taking place at Monsanto about preventing the reoccurrence of the PCB-type situation? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. You may answer. You can answer. I can? Well, nobody wanted the reoccurrence of this, obviously. When you say a reoccurrence of this, what are you referring to? Well, maybe I shouldn't have said it that way. I don't understand this statement here in the report. Am I allowed to ask a question? No? No, you're here to testify. Pardon? You're here to give answers, unless you don't understand my question. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 Q. 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 6 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 A. 20' 22 ' 23 Okay. My answer would be no. Okay. Do you -- Do you recall any discussions at Monsanto about new product production requirements. preventing a reoccurrence of the PCB-type situation? No. You weren't privied any such discussions? MR. DAVIDSON: Asked and answered. IHi object. THE WITNESS: What? MR. DAVIDSON: I'm objecting. He's already -- It's just the question he just a3ked. He just asked it in a different way. I don't really understand your question. Were you a participant in any discussions at Monsanto about preventing a reoccurrence of the REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 90 1 A. 2 3 4 Q. 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 9 10 A. 11 Q. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 No, I don't. I'm trying to understand the question. I'm trying my best to understand it, and I'm not getting it. Okay. I think my question was -- was a-- As written here. Right. What did that -- What did he mean by that? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. I. don't know. Did -- Actually, my question was: Were you aware of any discussions taking place at Monsanto regarding preventing the reoccurrence of the PCB-type situation? MR. DAVIDSON: I'll object. It's asked and answered about three or four different ways now. MR. ATKIN: All right. THE WITNESS: What? MR. ATKIN: Well, I think the characterization of his REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 23 91 92 HARTOLDMONO013631 1 2 3 5 S Q. 7 A. a Q. 9 10 11 A. 12 Q. 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 17 IB 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS answer -- It's Inappropriate. THE WITNESS; I'm lost. I'm sorry. MR. ATKIN: Okay. That'3 fine. On -- Further down on that page -- Yes. It says It discusses a question by Ernie Bergenstein of Ferranti Packard -- Yeah. Is that a customer? Yes, in Canada. Okay. And one of the -- The second question that Mr. Bergenstein poses is: Can Monsanto make some distribution to the public on the fact that the askarel does not disperse? Do you see that? Yes. Okay. Did Monsanto ever make any distribution to the public to the affect that askarel does not disperse? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 93 1 Q. 2 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 A. 7 Q. 3 9 A. 10 Q. ii 12 13 A. 14 15 Q. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Okay. Do you know if PCBs disperse if they are discharged or leached into a water supply? Ye3. Biodegrade i3 the word. Okay. Okay. Do they biodegrade? Yep. If they are discharged or leached into a body of water? It's got nothing to do with it. So it wouldn't affect their biodegradability? Is that what you're saying? It doesn't affect the biode -- not to any extent. Okay. In the next -- In the next line. there's an answer given to that question. It says: W. B. Papageorge replied that Monsanto plans to publish the data on the soil studies. Do you know what data Mr. Bryant is referring to here? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. Yeah. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 A. 3 4 5 S Q. 7 A. 8 Q. 9 A. 10 Q. 11 12 13 14 Q. 15 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 22 23 A. MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. Monsanto certainly informed who Monsanto possibly could inform of this dispersing business, which really i3 saying biodegrade. Okay. I believe. Why don't we use that term, then? Okay. Did Monsanto ever make any distribution to the public to the affect that askarels do not biodegrade -- MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. -- or with regard to the biodegradability of PCBs? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. That was general knowledge. Okay. Sir, do you know if anyone at Monsanto ever told the residents of Anniston, Alabama that PCBs do not disperse? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. I have no idea. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 94 1 Q. 2 A. 3 4 5 6 7 8 Q. 9 A. 10 11 12 Q. 13 A. 14 15 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 Q20 21 22 A. 23 Okay. What data is he referring to? Our laboratory on biodegradability question did run some 3oil stability te3t3 to try to get a better understanding and reading about biodegradability. Monsanto did work on this, as did others. Okay. We're not the only ones that did that work, and I would assume -- or I would say this is what Papageorge refers to. Who was Papa -- Who was Papageorge? Papageorge, he had been plant manager in Anniston. And by now, September, 1974, Papageorge was at St. Louis. Okay. And Monsanto did soil studies on PCBs? In the laboratory, yes. When did -- When did Monsanto first start doing that? MR. DAVIDSON: If you know. I don't know. MR. ATKIN: Obviously, he can't REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 24 95 96 HARTOLDMONO013632 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 19 20 Q. 21 A. 22 23 Q. DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS testify about things he doesn't know. MR. DAVIDSON: You don't put anything in a date frame for him so -- MR. STEWART: That doesn't have anything to do with a date frame. That's just -- MR. DAVIDSON: Certainly it does. MR, ATKIN: It's okay. okay. I asked him if he knows when Monsanto first did soil studies on PCBs. Before I retired. Okay. Was it shortly before you retired? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. Leading. Do you know if it was in the 1970s? Yeah, I would -- It would be in the 1970s. Okay. Are you aware -- REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 97 1 2 A. 3 4 Q. 5 6 7 8 9 10 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 published its soil studies on PCBs? Specifically on soil study, not to my knowledge. I don't know if we did. That's fine. Which moves U3 on to -- MR. ATKIN: How much time do we have left? THE VIDEOGRAPHER: About five minutes. MR. ATKIN: Okay. Let's see if we can -- MR. STEWART: Why don't you wait about that, and let'3 put something on the record. You've objected to leading the witness. We would be calling Mr. Benignus and, frankly. Mr. Lavinskus too, and anybody who was a former employee of Monsanto under Rule 43(b). And we reserve the right of that Rule in REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 A. 2 Q. 3 4 5 6 A. 7 8 9 Q. 10 11 A. 12 Q. 13 14 15 A. 16 17 18 Q. 19 20 22 A. 23 Q. That i3 my best estimate. Okay. Fine. Do you know -- do you know -- Have you ever heard that Monsanto did 3oil studies on PCBs prior to the 1970s? I can't pin it. That was done in a laboratory under the auspices of the research department. Who wa3 in charge of the research department at that time? Dr. Richard. Okay. Do you know specifically who worked on these studies -- on the 3oil studies of PCBs? That's what I'm trying to think, and I can't think about his name. I see his -- I see him, but I can't -- Okay. Do you know what the results were of the soil studies that were conducted by Monsanto on PCBs in the 1970s? No. Okay. Do you know if Monsanto ever REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 98 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 the State of Alabama to ask him leading questions. He's quite a gentleman. I assume the other gentlemen are too. But we would presume that they would be -- In the nature of a witness, it would be rather hostile to our case. And 30, as a consequence of that, we call upon that Rule. MR. DAVIDSON: Well, I think under the Rule, you have to demonstrate that they're hostile. And it ha3 to be ruled upon that you will be able to call them that way. and you're the one who told me that I have to make all of the objections. So that's the reason for the objections. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 25 99 100 HARTOLDMONO013633 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS 26 1 MR. STEWART: I understand 101 1 folks, including 103 2 that. 2 Mr. Beningus -- Benignus. 3 MR. ATKIN: Okay. 3 The second has attached MR. STEWART: The only 4 to it -- Let me do it that 5 objection I was referring 5 way for clarification. The 6 to was the leading 6 first document, the 7 objection, and I think the 7 pollution letter, has 8 Rule would be exactly what 8 Bate's Numbers STR 002310 9 I said it would be. But 9 and 002311. The second 10 that's up to you. 10 document, which is an 11 MR. DAVIDSON: Well, we beg to ii attachment to the first 12 differ and -- 12 one, has Bate's Numbers STR 13 MR. ATKIN: Right. That's 13 002314 and 002315, it look3 14 fine. 14 like. 15 MR. DAVIDSON: -- we need to 15 MR. DAVIDSON: I'm going to 16 clear the record. 16 enter an objection to this 17 MR. ATKIN: Sure. Absolutely, 17 document as being 18 absolutely. 18 incomplete. If, in fact -- 19 MR. STEWART: Absolutely. 19 MR. ATKIN: Well, you know -- 20 MR. ATKIN: Okay. Let'3 take a 20 MR. DAVIDSON: -- 2314 dash 15 21 break for lunch. 21 i3 an attachment to the 22 (A lunch break was 22 other document, then there 23 taken.) 23 would appear to be two REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 102 104 1 MR. ATKIN: Okay. We're back . 1 pages in between them 2 on the record after a lunch 2 missing. 3 break. 3 I don't have any -- 4 And we're going to 5 mark for identification _ 6 Benignus Four, I believe, 4 MR. ATKIN: Sure. 5 MR. DAVIDSON: -- problem with 6 you going ahead and asking 7 which is a document bearing 7 questions about it, but I'm 8 a whole bunch of different 9 designations. But I'm 8 not sure it's a complete 9 document. 10 going to go with the one 11 that starts STR 002310. 10 MR. ATKIN: Okay. 11 (Benignus Exhibit Number 12 And it's a one-, two-, 12 Four was marked for 13 three-, four-page document, 14 through STR 00231 -- It 13 14 Q. identification.) Mr. Benignus, do you recognize this 15 looks like it says 316. I 15 document? 16 don't know why that would 16 A. lea, I recognize it. 17 be. 314, 311 -- Well, 17 Q. Okay. And you were copied on this 18 that'3 -- actually, it -- 19 The first document, which 18 19 A. document, right? Yes. 20 is a pollution letter, 20 Q. Okay. This is a February 16th, 1970 dated February 16th, 1970, 21 pollution letter from N. T. Johnson to 22 from N.T. Johnson, St. 22 a whole bunch of folks -- 23 Louis, to a whole bunch of 23 A. Yeah. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMONO013634 1 Q. 2 A. 3 Q. 5 6 7 A. 8 9 10 Q. 11 A. 12 13 Q. 14 15 16 A. 17 Q. 18 19 A. 20 21 22 Q. 23 A. DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS -- including yourself, correct? Right. Okay. In the first paragraph of this memorandum, Mr. Johnson writes -- Withdrawn. Who is N. T. Johnson? That was Norman Johnson. He was the man in charge of the district sales offices -- Okay. The district sales managers reported to Johnson. Okay. And the folks that this was sent to, were these folks all in the marketing department? Well, some of them in Brussels. Well, I guess what I meant -- the folks that -- Yeah, yeah, okay. I think you've got it right. They're connected with marketing, these people are. Okay, okay. Yes. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 105 1 Q. 2 A. 3 4 Q. 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 9 10 11 A. 12 Q. 13 14 IS Q. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Okay. February 18, and this is February the 16th. Right. Yes, correct. Okay. Why didn't Mr. Johnson want any other recipients of thi3 memorandum to give answers to customers' proposed questions in writing? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. I don't know. Okay. MR. DAVIDSON: I withdraw my objection. Okay. Now, in the next paragraph, Mr. Johnson writes -- Withdrawn. Let me just ask you a little bit more about that. Do you remember any discussions at all with anyone about the fact that Mr. Johnson was requesting the people who receive thi3 letter not to answer customers' proposed questions orally, but only in REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 Q. 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 9 A. 10 Q. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22 23 A. All right. Do you know who drafted this document, the first two pages? Yeah -- Well, that was Norman Johnson. Okay. He signed it. Okay, all right. Now, in the first paragraph in this -- of this document -- Uh-huh (indicating yes). -- the memorandum. This is the -- Mr. Johnson's states: Attached is a list of questions and answers, which may be asked of you by customers receiving our Aroclor-PCB letter. You can give verbal answers; no answers should be given in writing. . Let me ask you first: When he -- Mr. Johnson mentions customers receiving the Aroclor-PCB letter, is that letter what's referred to? And is that letter attached as the -- the attachment to this memorandum? Yes. Yeah, I was -- yeah. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 106 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 6 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 A. 17 Q. 18 19 20 A. 21 22 23 writing? I have no idea. Okay. In the next paragraph, Mr. Johnson writes: We want to avoid any situation where a customer wants to return fluid. Do you see that? Yes. And then he goes on and concludes that paragraph by stating: We don't want to take fluid back. Sell him the replacement. Right? Right. Okay. And "We don't want to take fluid back" is underlined, correct? Yes. Okay. And did Monsanto anticipate that its customers would want to return ECB-containing products? I'm not qualified to answer this because this has nothing to do with me. I'm in the electrical industry and this -- The reason I was reading this REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 27 107 108 HARTOLDMONO013635 1 2 3 5 6 7 a q. 9 A. 10 Q. 11 12 13 14 15 A. 16 17 18 Q, 19 A. 20 Q. 21 22 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS through carefully was when I was reading Pydraul -- Pydraul -- Pydraul -- and somewhere Therminol -- Well, that's not dielectrics. That's not my business. I really had -- X was copied in on this, but it has nothing to do with me. Okay. I understand that, but -- Oh. But my question is: Whether you know -- Do you know whether or not Monsanto anticipated that its customers would want to return PCB-containing products? That's why I just said what I did. You're asking me about the hydraulics fluid area where I wasn't so I -- So you don't know? I don't know. Okay. Well, what about in your area? Did Monsanto anticipate that customers would want to return PCB-containing products? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 109 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 6 7 8 9 A. 10 Q. ii 12 A. 13 Q. 14 15 16 A. 17 18 19 20 Q. 21 22 23 A. paragraph -- Yeah. It says as follows: Take the offense -- off fence, I guess. Don't let a customer or competitor intimidate you. I doubt if our competitors know whether their product could present a problem to our environment. Okay, yeah. Hell, again -- Okay. Well, allow me ask the question, if I could. Yes, sir. Do you know which competitors Mr. Bryant was referring to? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. Hell, it mentions here in the memo, Houghton, Scauffer, Carbine. Those are people that -- That's the reason I mentioned that. Okay. When he -- When he refers to their products, do you know which products he was referring to? Their products. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 A. 2 3 4 5 6 7 Q. 8 A. 9 10 Q. 11 12 13 14 A. 15 Q. 16 17 18 A. 19 20 Q. 22 A. 23 Q. Well, here we are in 1970. That is February, early '70. Somewhere in '70, you see, the nonelectrical wa3 shut down. That didn't pertain in the electrical industry. Nothing changed there that I know of. Right. That's why I'm saying to you -- Thi3 doesn't pertain to where I was. Okay. Did you have a sense at all why Monsanto did not want to take back PCB fluids from its customers? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. I don't know. Okay. Do you know what replacement Monsanto was looking into to sell to its customers? See, here again, you're talking about hydraulics fluids, and I don't know. Okay. On page two of this memorandum -- Yeah -- oh, that one. Towards the end of the first REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 110 1 Q. 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 6 7 8 9 A. 10 Q. 11 12 13 14 A. 15 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 20 Q. 21 A. 22 Q. 23 Do you know which specific products? No, I do not. Okay. And in the beginning of the next paragraph, Mr. Johnson says: He should also recognize, in parentheses, point this out to your customer, close parens. He must clean up, period. Do you 3ee that? Yes. Okay. Has Mr. Johnson referring to cleaning up PCB-containing wastes or materials? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. Hell, I wasn't in the area. I don't know what he's talking about. Okay. Hell, when you received the memorandum, did you read it? To be honest, I suppose, but I don't know whether I did. It'3 not my area. Okay. It'3 not in the electrical business. Okay. Did you review this document yesterday with -- with Monsanto's REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 28 Ill 112 HARTOLDMONO013636 1 2 A. 3 Q. 5 Q. 6 7 8 9 A. 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 A. 15 Q. 16 A. 17 18 Q. 19 A. 20 Q. 21 22 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS lawyers? I don't know that, either. Okay. I'm sorry. That's all right. Do you know if Monsanto ever told its customers that they had to clean;up PCB; wastes or materials? I don't know. It*3 in an area where I wasn't. Okay. Did Monsanto itself undertake clean-up of PCB-contalning wastes or materials in 1970? At our plant? Yeah. X don't know that we had at that time. I don't know the situation. Okay. Thi3 is nonelectrical. Do you know if Monsanto ever undertook any clean-up efforts at its Anniston, Alabama facility? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 113 1 2 Q. 3 A. 4 Q. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 A. 13 14 15 16 Q. 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 21 22 23 A. I'm not asking questions. Right. But that's -- I believe they did, as far as I know. Okay. But my question asked: Do you know whether -- Do you know, either from your personal knowledge, or did you hear from anyone else, whether or not Monsanto ever undertook any efforts to clean up PCBs in the soil, the water, or the air in Anniston? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. Well, I wasn't at the plant. I had no contact with them. I don't think I'm in a position to know an answer to that. I don't know. That's fine. You don't know? I really don't know. That's fine. Did Monsanto ever tell its customers about dangers or precautions in the manufacturing or handling of Aroclors? Can you say this again, please? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 A. 2 3 Q. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 A. 11 12 Q. 13 A. 14 15 A. IS Q. 17 18 A. 19 20 Q. 22 23 I'm trying to think. I don't know. I wasn't at the plant. Okay. Specifically, do you know -- were you ever told -- Did you ever hear that Monsanto ever undertook any efforts to clean up PCBs in the soil. air, or bodies of water in the Anniston Community? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. Well, at what time? And what -- What are you talking about? Okay. How about in 1970? Well, 1970 -- MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. I 3hould answer? Yes, sir. MR. DAVIDSON: Yes. Well, February of *70? February of '70? Any time in 1970? Any time in 1970? I thought -- I'm not sure, but I -- X believe Anniston shut down about this time. Didn't we -- Oh, REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 114 1 2 3 4 A. 5 6 7 Q. 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 15 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 A. 20 Q. 21 22 A. 23 Q. MR. ATKIN: I -- Can you read it back, please? (Record read.) My customers didn't manufacture Aroclors. That's why -- Did I miss you? No, no. That's -- that's -- Pardon? No, no. You're right. In the manufacture of products containing Aroclors -- Oh, oh. -- or in the handling of Aroclors to put into products manufactured by such customers? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. Yes, yea. Is the answer yes? Yes. Okay. What -- What did Monsanto tell them? I know what I told -- What did you tell -- REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 29 115 116 HARTOLDMONO013637 1 A. 2 Q. 3 5 Q. 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 A. 10 11 Q. 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 21 22 23 A. DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS -- the area where I was. Okay. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you. What did you tell them? Well, I wrote a booklet. And what was the booklet called? Did it have a name? Yea. What was it called? The Proper Handling of pc -- of Aroclor3 in the Electrical Industry. Did you put that booklet together yourself? ' Yea, air. Okay. Wa3 all the information contained in that booklet baaed on your own personal knowledge? Yea. Okay. Do you recall generally what types of information you gave to customers in that bulletin regarding the handling and precautions, if any. that should be taken when using PCBs? What this -- The focal point of thi3 REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 117 1 2 3 Q. 4 5 6 7 A. 8 9 10 Q. 11 12 13 A. 14 15 Q. 16 17 18 A. 19 Q. 20 A. 21 22 23 a short chapter of ray understanding of it, yes. Did you consult with anyone else from Monsanto about what kind of Information you should put into the health hazard section of the booklet? Yes, it was passed through the medical department. I wouldn't put this out myself. When you say the med -- passed through the medical department, do you know who specifically looked at the material? I would say Elmer Wheeler, but with the knowledge of Dr. Kelly. Okay. Do you recall what types of health risks or health hazards you discussed in that booklet? Yes. Okay. What did you discuss? The pertinent thing I said as clearly and briefly as possible so anyone reading it can understand it -- should be able to -- Do not breathe the vapors REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Q. 19 20 22 Q. 23 A. publication waa to inform the users of PCB dielectrics, whether for capacitors or whether for transformers* how to handle this, how to purify it -- very critical material 7- and how to avoid containing -- contaminating the fluids. It explains how to unload a tankcar they received. But this is top unloading with dry nitrogen to protect it from moisture. And it goes in great depth of presenting the test procedures used by ASTM characterizing these fluids for use in the electrical industry. It presents all of that data. And it -- That's the purpose of proper handling of it. Okay. Was there anything in that booklet about health hazards associated with PCBs? ' Yes. Well, what do you recall about that? Well, I'm sure if I wrote it, it's got REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 118 1 2 3 Q. 4 A. 5 6 7 a 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 17 ia 19 A. 20 Q. 21 22 23 A. or the fumes emitted from PCBs at elevated temperature. Okay. Anything else? Yes, avoid prolonged contact or exposure to the skin. There's no big problem here. But In reasonable time, wash it off with soap and water. And then, you know, don't wait on it -- If your clothes get a spill on them or saturated, change your clothes. Now, in the second to la3t paragraph on page two -- Yes. It says: We can't afford to lose one dollar of business. Was Monsanto concerned that it was going to lose business, PCB business? Where I was, no. I'm not asking you about where you were. I'm asking about Monsanto in general? I can't answer this in general. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 30 119 120 HARTOLDMONO013638 1 Q. 2 3 A. 5 6 7 a 9 A. 10 Q. 11 A. 12 Q. 13 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 19 20 A. 21 22 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS Okay, you don't know? Is that what you're saying? I know from where I was. But I'm not asking you about from where you were. I'm asking you about whether you know about Monsanto in general. Do you know if Monsanto in general was concerned about losing PCB business? No. No, you don't know? No, I don't know. Okay. Did Monsanto ever refuse to take back PCBs because it did not want to lose one dollar of business? I don't know the answer to that. Okay. Did Monsanto continue to sell Aroclor 1254 and Axoclor 1260 because it did not want to lose one dollar of business? I can't answer that. Okay. That's all I have on that document. MR. ATKIN: Now, the next document, which we will REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 121 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 B 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 through 0011073 are a document called "Possible Customer Questions on PCBs.n (Benignus Exhibit Number Five was marked for identification.) MR. ATKIN: Yeah, we've got to get a -- Yeah, I'm sorry. Thank you. THE WITNESS: Oh, I'm sorry. MR. ATKIN: Not your fault. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: I just went off. MR. ATKIN: Oh, you just went off? Okay, good. That's fine. (Discussion held off the record.) MR. DAVIDSON: I would like to note an objection on this document as well based upon its completeness -- or REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 122 1 mark as Benignus -- What 1 lack of completeness -- and 2 number are we up to, 3 Donald? 4 MR. STEWART: About Five. 5 MR. ATKIN: Thank you. 6 Benignus Five is a 7 document with an 8 attachment. The first two 9 pages are the same exact 10 document as the first two 2 that it's very difficult to 3 bear a copy and difficult 4 to read. I would like to 5 point out that Mr. Atkin 6 has directed the witness -- 7 this wa3 off the record -- a has directed the witness' 9 attention to certain 10 questions and answers that 11 pages of Exhibit Four, and 12 attached to it are 13 another -- one, two, three. 14 four, five, six, seven. 15 eight, nine, ten, eleven --16 twelve pages bearing Bate's 11 he has read. And he has 12 not, therefore, read the 13 entire document. 14 MR. ATKIN: That'3 fine. Okay. 15 MR. STEWART: When you say he 16 has not read the entire 17 Numbers FGL 0011062 through 17 document, you mean 18 FGL 0011073. 19 We're going to mark 18 Mister -- 19 MR. ATKIN: Mr. Benignus. 20 this for identification as 20 MR. DAVIDSON: Ye3, Benignu3. Benignus Five. The 22 documents bearing Bate's 21 MR. ATKIN: I don't think he's 22 making any assumptions as 23 Numbers FGL 0011062 23 to whether I've read the REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 31 123 124 HARTOLDMONO013639 1 2 Q. 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 A. 23 Q. DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS document, Donald. Okay. Let's start by asking you about question four on page FGL 001067. The question reads -- question four: You must have quite a control problem at your plants. I would think Monsanto's Aroclor plants are the major polluters. How are you handling control? And the answer given is: The Aroclor products we make to sell at a profit, so economics dictates maximum housekeeping, minimum losses. The Aroclor process is a dry process or a closed system. Did you -- Now, before I ask you about that specific question on that, I want to ask you: Did you look at this document yesterdaywith Monsanto*3 attorneys? I didn't -- I didn't -- No. No? That's the best I can say. Okay.Then we -- We would like your REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 125 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 6 7 a 9 A. 10 11 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 A. 16 Q. 17 A. 18 19 20 Q, 21 22 A. 23 Q. Anniston Community? Not that I know of. Okay. Do you know, sir, whether Monsanto disposed of PCB wastes in a manner that resulted in the contamination of the air, the soil, and the bodies of water in and around the Anniston Community? (Witness shakes head negatively.) MR. DAVIDSON: you'll have to answer out loud. MR. ATKIN: Thank you. Oh, excuse me. No. You don't know? I don't know. Okay. I want to make one comment so -- MR. DAVIDSON: No, you've answered the question. Is there something you would like to add to your answer? Yes. Well, what is it? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 19 20 A. 22 23 best answer. Yeah. Okay. Do you know whether Monsanto had maximum housekeeping at it3 Anniston plant? I can't answer that. Okay. The next question asks -- Question five: How does Monsanto think Aroclors can get into the environment and cause so much pollution? And the answer is: Disposal, leakage from systems using it, spills, etcetera. Do you know -- I'm sorry. Do you see that? Yes. Mr. Benignus, do you know if Monsanto disposed of PCB wastes into the bodies of water surrounding the Anniston Community? I don't know that. Okay. Do you know, sir, if Monsanto ever spilled PCBs that ended up in the bodies of water surrounding the REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 126 1 A. 2 3 4 5 6 7 Q. 8 A. 9 10 Q. 11 12 13 14 15 16 Q. 17 18 19 20 21 22 Q. 23 Are you aware that the tankcars, to avoid spoilage and to retain purity of the dielectrics -- I'm talking about -- were top-unloading? You couldn't open the bottom. You can't spill it out of . the bottom -- Okay. -- to avoid spillage. I wanted to say that. Okay. Thank you. MR. ATKIN: Let's go off the record for one second, ju3t one second. (Discussion held off the ' record.) Okay. The last sentence in the answer to question number six says: There is a method available for sampling air. Do you see that? MR. DAVIDSON: Excuse me. We are lost. Oh, I'm sorry. Back on -- On question six, on page FGL 0011067. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 32 127 128 HARTOLDMONO013640 1 A. 2 Q. 3 A. 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 A. 15 Q. 16 17 18 19 20 21 A. 22 Q. 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS Yeah, six. Right. See the last sentence in -- Yes, -- second sentence in the answer? Yes. There is a method available for sampling air? Yes. Okay. Do you know if Monsanto ever took any air samples from the Anniston Community? From the community? Yes. Not to my knowledge. Okay. Now, question number seven says -- It states in part: What precautions can I take to prevent (a) employee problems and (b) escape of vapors into the atmosphere? Do you 3ee that? YQ3. Okay. And the answer says: Articles on PCB interference with pesticides REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 129 1 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 6 A. ? Q. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 A. 19 20 Q. 21 A. 22 23 issue? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. Not that I know. Okay. In the next session called Toxicity -- Uh-huh (indicating yes). -- question one states -- this conceals with this -- This concerns, rather, if PCB is a danger to fish and birds, how about humans? And the answer 3ays: The amounts being found in the environment are not considered a danger to human3 or fish. The whole question on chlorinated pesticides relates to birds. Do you know if that was a true statement at the time that it was made? Let me read it. I wasn't there when it was made. Okay. Please do. The amounts being found in the environment are not considered a danger to humans or fish. It's not considered REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 10 11 12 A. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22 Q. 23 analysis have mentioned the possibility of loss through the atmosphere from vaporization when Axoclors are heated. We find this hard to believe, and it warrants considerable investigation. Do you 3ee that? Yes. Okay. Did Monsanto find it hard to believe that there might be losses to the atmosphere when PCBs are heated? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. When you heat Aroclor to high temperatures, there are fumes; whereas, at ambient temperatures, normal temperatures, there are no fumes. Now, I don't know what the man who wrote this specifically has in mind. I can address your answer by saying: If you heat Aroclor, PCBs, to high temperatures, yes, there will be fumes. Okay. Did Monsanto ever undertake a considerable investigation of this REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 130 1 2 3 Q. 4 ,5 6 A. 7 8 Q. 9 A. 10 ii 12 13 Q. 14 A. 15 16 Q. 17 A. 18 19 Q. 20 A. 21 22 23 a danger to humans. I'm answering that now, today. Okay. But I'm not asking you about today. I'm asking whether this statement was true when it was made. I would think the part to humans is true. Okay. Now, about the fish, I'm not sure at that time whether it was known. Is it, or isn't it? See, this is early on. Thi3 is in 1970. Uh-huh (indicating yes). I don't know to what extent there was any danger to fish. Okay. I know it was found to some extent in fish. Okay. But I don't know -- Evidently, it hadn't -- Here it says they're not considered a danger. Well, I have to accept what -- their statement. They REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 33 131 132 HARTOLDMONO013641 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS 1 30 -- 2 MR. DAVIDSON: Can I note -- 3 MR. ATKIN: Oh, yeah. We -- I 4 think you should note. 5 though, that there's 6 certain high- -- Hhy don't 7 we note that there*a 8 certain high-lighting on 9 it. And I'll represent 10 that the high-lighting was 11 done by our firm. 12 And that's Benignus Six 13 for identification. 14 MR. STEWART: Is this Six? 15 MR. ATKIN: That is Six. 16 (Benignus Exhibit Number 17 Six wa3 marked for 18 identification.) 19 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay. I 20 went off. 21 MR. DAVIDSON: Let's take a 22 break. 23 MR. ATKIN: Okay, sure. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 Q. 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 A. 10 Q. 11 A. 12 Q. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 A. 20 Q. 21 A. 22 Q. 23 (A break was taken.) Okay. This is a March 10th, 1969 memorandum from Mr. Richard, correct? Tes, Dr. Richard. Dr. Richard. What was his -- What was his position again? Director of Research. Okay. What type of research? All for this -- for this product group. Okay. Including PCBs? Yes. Okay. And thi3 is the -- The subject is: Notes On Meeting; dated 3-6-69, Industrial Bio-Test Laboratories, Inc.; Reference, Aroclor - Wildlife. And you were one of the people who received a copy of this memorandum. correct? Right. And do you remember receiving it? No. Okay. Did you look at this document yesterday with Monsanto's lawyers when REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 34 135 136 HARTOLDMONO013642 1 2 A. 3 O. 5 Q. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 A. 17 Q. 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS you prepared for this deposition? I don't think so. Okay. I don't recall. Okay. On the second page in thi3 document, in the middle of the page, it says that E. Wheeler will report on program to date. And it lists what appears to be several studies that were being undertaken or that were going to be undertaken. Is that an accurate description? Yes. Okay. Now, Roman numeral number one under there -- Ye3. -- discusses a rat tissue residue study and acute levels for Aroclor 1242, 1244 -- 1254, rather -- sorry -- 1260, and 5460. Okay. Do you know if that -- those studies were ever undertaken? I don't know but -- REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 137 1 Q. 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 A. 9 10 Q. 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 A. 15 Q. 16 17 18 A. 19 Q. 20 A. 21 Q. 22 23 Roman numeral three. Fish toxicity -- The TLM? No, I don't. Okay. Do you know if any fish toxicity studies were undertaken by Monsanto relating to -- X-- -- relating to PCBs? I'm sorry. I don't think they were. I never saw a fish. Okay. And you don't know the results of any studies, fish -- No. -- toxicity studies? No. Okay. Roman numeral number four talks about chicken toxicity. Do you see that? Yes. Reproductive egg and meat residue -- Yeah. And it says: To go ahead with the study, but add enzyme and hormone experiments plus calcium metabolism REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 Q. 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 A. 8 Q. 9 10 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 A. 15 Q. 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 22 Q. 23 A. Okay. I wasn't told. I didn't -- Were you ever told about the results of any -- No. -- studies, rat tissue studies? No. Okay. Roman numeral number two talks about chicken ti33ue residue study and acute levels. Do you know if that study was ever undertaken? Not specifically, no. Meaning you don't know? I don't know. Okay. And you don't know anything about the results? No, I don't. Okay. Same question for number three, Fish toxicity TLM. Firstly, do you know what TLM stands for? You say it referring to number what? Number three. Oh. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 138 1 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 9 A. 10 Q. 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 15 16 A. 17 Q. 18 19 A. 20 Q. 21 22 23 studies and egg shell thickness. Correct? Yes. Do you know if that study wa3 ever undertaken? No, I don't. Okay. And you don't know anything about the results? No. Okay. Roman numeral number five talks about Mallard Duck -- Aquatic Bird -- Uh-huh (indicating yes). -- Same type study as for chickens. Do you know if that study was ever undertaken? No, I don't. Okay. You don't know the results, do you? No. Okay. Number seven -- I'm sorry. Number six discusses three generation reproduction study in rats, eighteen months. Start now. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 35 139 140 HARTOLDMONO013643 1 2 3 A. 5 6 A. 7 Q, 8 9 10 11 A. 12 Q. 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 17 18 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 23 A. DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS Do you know if that was ever undertaken? No. Okay. And you don't know anything about the results? No. Number seven discusses atwo-year study in rats, twenty-six months. Start now. Do you know if that was ever undertaken? No, X don't. Do you know anything about the results? No. Okay. I -- Well, it's just two more -- three more. Number eight discusses a two-year study in dogs, twenty-six months. . Do you know if that was ever undertaken? No. And you don't knowanything about the results, do you? No. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 141 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 6 7 8 9 A. 10 Q. 11 12 13 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 19 20 21 A. 22 Q. 23 Do you 3ee that? Yes. And Roman numeral three atatea: Atmosphere and streams around our manufacturing plants and major customers. Need to establish a norm and an acceptable atandard. Do you aee that? Xes. Okay. Did Monsanto ever establish a norm and an acceptable atandard for PCB levela in the atmosphere and streams around its manufacturing plants? Not that I know of. Okay. Do you know if Monsanto ever conducted any tests to determine whether the PCB levels in the air and streams around its Anniston facility exceeded or were within certain levels? I do not. Okay. Now, since I don't have the document in front of me -- Can X just REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 Q. 2 3 4 5 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 10 11 12 13 14 A. 15 Q. 16 17 18 A. 19 Q. 20 A. 22 23 Okay. Well, how about number nine: Subacute Fish Study. Start immediately. Consider possibility of reproductive cycle. Do you know if that study was ever undertaken? No. Okay. And the last one discusses metabolic studies. Do you know what types of metabolic studies were being contemplated by Monsanto regarding PCB toxicity? MR. DAVIDSON: Obj ection. No, I don't. Okay. And you don't know anything about any -- whether any such studies were conducted -- No, I don't. -- or what the results were? No. Okay. Now, on the last page of this document, there is a heading called "Defense seems to have these elements." REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 142 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 u 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 see that for a second? Thank you. Yeah, the first full paragraph. I would like you to read that, if you could. And then I'll ask you some -- a question about it. MR. DAVIDSON: You're referring to the first full paragraph above the statement: Defense seems -- THE WITNESS: Okay. MR. ATKIN: No, I'm referring to this paragraph: Discussed requirements -- THE WITNESS: Oh, Discussed -- MR. ATKIN: Wait, wait, wait. I take that back. I'm sorry. Can I 3ee that for a second? I apologize. Yeah -- Weil, I'll give it to you. But why don't I just read it into the record, and then I'll give it to you to look at. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 36 143 144 HARTOLDMONO013644 1 2 Q. 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 A. 12 Q. 13 14 A. 15 Q. 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS THE WITNESS: All right. It says: Discussed requirements of sampling fish and water in San Francisco Bay, location of a lot of Risebrough's accusations versus PCB and possible site of very low Aroclor usage. L. Beer indicated forty thousand dollars for this kind of job. Wheeler and Richard said four thousand dollars plus a rowboat. Uh-huh (indicating yes). Do you remember any discussions about that? I had none -- No. Okay. I didn't ask you whether you had any -- Oh, no. Do you recall any discussions at Monsanto about that? No. Okay. No. Okay. Does it seem odd to you that in response to an estimate for sampling fish and water for PCBs, Mr. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 145 1 A. 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 6 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 A. 23 Q. Yeah, they do. MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. Oh. Do you know what Dr. Richard meant when he said that this was the only way out long term? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. X don't. Okay. Do you recall any discussions about that? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. No. , Okay. Do you recall whether there were any discussions about Monsanto -- Monsanto's only way out long term -- Withdrawn. Do you know whether he was referring to Monsanto avoiding liability or responsibility for cleaning up PCBs? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. I have no idea. Okay. You can put that document away. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 A. 20 Q. 22 Q. 23 Wheeler and Mr. Richard would suggest that they would only be willing to spend one-tenth of that amount? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. I don't know. . Okay. Now, Roman numeral five states: Not discussed but possibly obvious. Can we find out whether product degrades in nature so that it does not accumulate? Only real way out long term. Do you 3ee that? Yea, Okay. And Monsanto -- Did Monsanto undertake studies to determine whether PCBs degrade in nature? They did laboratory tests that I saw -- Okay. -- to try to measure degrading. Okay. And what were the results? It doesn't degrade rapidly. Okay. In fact, PCBs persist in the environment, don't they? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 146 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 MR. ATKIN: This is now Six. Okay. Let'3 move on to Number Seven. Do you have a copy of it? No? Yeah, Thank you. For identification purposes. Benignus Seven is a document dated October 1st, 1970. It'3 a letter from Mr. Papageorge, Manager, Environmental Control, to Mr. F. R. Viland, Senior Buyer, Purchasing Department, Transformer Division of Westinghouse Corporation. MR. DAVIDSON: The Bate's Number? MR. ATKIN: Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you. The Bate's Number is 703133 and 703134. It also bears Bate's Numbers NEV 003895 REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 37 147 148 HARTOLDMONO013645 1 2 3 5 6 7 Q. 8 9 10 11 A. 12 Q. 13 14 A. 15 Q. 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 A. 20 21 Q. 22 A. 23 Q. DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS 003896. (Benignua Exhibit Number Seven wa3 marked for identification.) (Discussion held off the record.) Okay. We're back on the record. This is an October 1st, 1970 letter from Papageorge to Mr. Viland. And you were copied on thi3, correct? Right. Okay. Doyou recall receiving this letter? Yea. Okay. Do you recall reading it when you received it? Yes. Do you recall any discussions about it? X recall when the test was done by Hatfield in 1938. X wa3there. Okay. Tell me a little bit about that. May I speak now? Sure. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 149 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Q. 8 A. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Q. 16 A. 17 Q. 18 iJ* 2u 21 22 23 here. This is correct the way it was done. Usually the wood is treated. Here, the soil was treated with a sterilant, proposed sterilant, assumed -- expected to be sterilant, soil sterilant. Okay. Well, and the -- an untreated stake -- I suppose a two-by-four would have been the logical thing -- was put in the center where this hole was dug out and treated at different layers with PCB a3 indicated. This is a correct indication of what happened. Okay. Now, it gives the results here and -- Well, before you -- we talk about the results, what was the purpose of this study? The purpose of the study was to find out whether Aroclor 1242, which was different from pentachlorophenol, which is an active chlorophenolic group. It REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 A. 2 Q. 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 A. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22 23 Okay. As opposed to -- As opposed to what you were doing before? Yeah. Okay. Thi3 wa3 done, going back -- I told you 19 -- Now, wait a min -- '39. In *39, I went -- Okay. In 1939, as I told you, I went into the applications research section of the organic division. Now, this is dated -- This test was started in '38. I told you I got there in '39. Well, mas o menos -- six months. It'3 not important. What I tell you, I know it was Aroclor 1242, as it 3ays trichloro -- Aroclor. Ira Hatfield -- I spoke to you about doing more upon wood preservation. He was the man heading that up, and he had been to Gainesville, Florida. I knew that, and he put in this test exactly as it says REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 150 1 2 3 4 5 6Q. 7 A. 8 9 10 11 12 13 Q. 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 A. 18 19 20 Q. 21 A. 22 23 is an active fungicide. Aroclor 1242 does not have any active, reactive group. It is very stable. Okay? So this is why the 1242 wa3 put into the 3oil -- Uh-huh (indicating ye3). -- rather than into the wood, being impregnated with an active fungistat or fungicide to see whether the termites would eat an unpreserved piece of wood in that kind of soil. And that's about the way it came out. Okay. Did Monsanto suspect in 1938 that PCBs are not biodegradable? I have no idea. In 1938 -- At the time that this study was done? Weil, I don't know what was in Hatfield's mind, and I didn't -- I was not asked this question. I don't know. Okay. Who wa3 Hatfield? Ira Hatfield was the fellow who was the head of the biological little group that existed there at this time. He REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 38 151 152 HARTOLDMONO013646 1 2 Q. 3 5 A. 6 Q. 7 A. 8 Q. 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 15 ISA. 17 Q. 18 19 20 21 22 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS reported to Mr. Watt. Okay. Do you know who directed that this study be done? Was it Mr. Hatfield or -- Yes, he did that. Was it his idea? Yeah. And the results of the 3tudy confirmed that PCBs do not degrade much -- MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. -- because the PCBs that had been deposited in the soil by Monsanto in 1938 were still there more than thirty years later, right? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. That's what the report says. Okay. Now, in this letter, a Mr. Papageorge is discussing his attempt to persuade a Dr. Loughry of the Pennsylvania agency to allow Westinghouse to get -- to get rid of its PCBs and landfills in Pennsylvania. MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 153: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 L6 17 19 Q. 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 A. 23 Q, , a one-page memorandum written by Mr. Benignus, subject, General -- dated October 26, 1971; subject. General Electric Capacitor Department; St. Louis visit, October 25,26. MR. DAVIDSON: Bate's? MR. ATKIN: Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you. Bate's Number -- bearing Bata's Number MONS 098309. (Benignus Exhibit Number Eight was marked for identification.) (Discussion held off the record.) Okay. Do you recall this document. sir? Yes. Okay. Do you recall writing it? Yes. Okay. Did you review this document REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 Q. 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 9 10 11 A. 12 13 14 15 16 Q. 17 18 19 20 22 23 Correct? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. Well, it say3 so. Okay. Do you recall any discussions about this at Monsanto? No, I was not in that. Okay. Why were you -- Why were you given a copy -- sent a copy of thi3? Do you know? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. I think because of what we already covered. The test by Hatfield, who was in the group I was in in 1938, that's what this document refers to. And that' s the reason. Okay, all right. That'3 all I have on that document. MR. ATKIN: Let us mark for identification as Benignus Seven, a one-page -- MR. COX: Eight. MR. ATKIN: Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you. Benignus Eight, REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 154 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 6 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 12 13 14 15 A. 16 17 Q. 18 A. 19 20 21 22 23 yesterday with Monsanto's attorneys? I think 30. Okay. Now, in the last paragraph of the memo, number five, you state: The time is rapidly approaching when we, in parentheses, the speaker may be Dr. Pozefsky of GE, close parens -- Uh-huh (indicating yes). -- will have to stand up before ANSI and give understandable and convincing evidence about this regarding Aroclor 1016. I would like to ask you first: What is ANSI? ANSI i3 American National Standards Institute. What does it do? This is a committee that is very similar to ASTM, which we defined ASTM as being a development of teat methods and standards. ANSI doesn't develop the official test methods, but both of these organizations, if you will ~ REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 39 155 156 HARTOLDMONO013647 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Q. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS Above them would come the Bureau of Standards, who didn't do any work. The work wa3 done with ASTM and ANSI, but that'3 just the way it was then. Bureau of Standards reports to Congress, which is the law of the land. So ANSI is a very important and influential committee representing the interests of the electrical industry. And in this instance, a capacitor's section and a transformer's section, which led to ANSI C-17 or C-117. okay. When you said that the time is rapidly approaching when you will have to -- when we will have to stand up before ANSI and give understandable and convincing evidence about this regarding Aroclor 1016, what is the "this" referring to? What will you have to stand up before ANSI and give understandable and convincing evidence about? This is where -- Paragraph five answers REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 157 1 2 3 4 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 9 A. 10 Q. 11 A. 12 Q. 13 14 15 A. 16 17 18 Q. 19 20 A. 21 22 23 available at this time is not sufficient and lacks conviction required for U3 to present our case at ANSI, barely even on an interim ba3i3. What do you mean by that? What I said. Can you elaborate a little bit? MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. We need more information. About what? About biodegradability of Aroclor 1016. Okay. Was Monsanto required to give information on biodegradability of PCBs -- of Aroclor 1016 to ANSI? Nobody 3tood over us with a club. We had sought to present this and determine it. Was ANSI looking for Monsanto -- for answers from Monsanto on that issue? It says here our group here at Monsanto -- if I read this right, and I wrote it -- is the source of such information at this point in time -- REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 Q. 3 A. 4 5 Q. 6 A. 7 8 9 10 Q. 11 12 13 14 15 A. 16 17 Q. 18 19 20 22 Q. 23 this, your question. Okay. It'3 about the migration and how biodegradable is Aroclor 16 -- 1016, correct? Yes. In terms of realistic conditions of organisms and time and al3o knowledge about what is formed after biodegration. Okay. So that'3 what -- That's the issue that you have to stand -- that you said the time was rapidly approaching when we would have to stand up before ANSI? Meaning, you know, Dr. A1 Pozefsky of GE. Okay. And then you go on to say: His only source of the essential data and information is our group at Monsanto. Was that true? I would 3ay so. Okay. And then you -- Okay. The last sentence states: The information REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 158 1 2 Q. 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 A. 7 0 Q. 9 A. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 certainly. Okay. Did Monsanto ever appear before ANSI regarding thi3 issue? Sure. Okay. When? 1971, the nonelectrical business was shut down. Right. The electrical business continued by approval from Congress, and it shut down in 1977. So, In that time frame. ANSI C-17 -- I guess i3 the number If I remember, or 117 -- was active. Now, this calls for -- This portrays activity at ANSI. Now, how fast this came about, I can't exactly say. It was in action, involved, for several years. It took several years to compile the report at ANSI. There was a lot of work done there. So to answer your question specifically, I can tell you this: It was before I retired in '74. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 40 159 160 HARTOLDMONO013648 1 Q. 2 A. 3 5 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 A. 10 Q. 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 15 16 A. 17 18 19 20 21 Q. 22 A. 23 Q. DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS Okay. And here we were at '71. Well, pick an answer about half way. Did Monsanto present information to ANSI along the lines of what -- of what you discussed in thi3 memorandum? Yes, sir. Okay. Who made that presentation? I don't know who presented it. Okay. Do you know what the substance was of the -- of the presentation? of the biodegrade -- In other words, do you know what specifically was told to ANSI by Monsanto? Yes. What was told and conveyed to ANSI and elsewhere was the findings. the results, of the laboratory biodegradable -- biodegration test3 that we spoke of. The ones that were begun in 1938? Oh, no. Okay. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 161 1 2 3 4 5 6 Q. 7 A. 8 9 10 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 work at ANSI. I knew the people on the one hand in the capacitor'3 section from -- I always forget the initials -- E -- EEIA. Yeah, electrical -- that was the capacitors section. Okay. They addressed the problems or whatever in the capacitor business. Here, under our ANSI committee, is the transformer section, people who make transformers. I knew who was knowledgeable and could serve. Now, I didn't do any of the work. Papageorge was on deck in '71. Yeah. See, he has a copy. He had moved from Anniston to St. Louis by then to work on this. He was elected chairman of ANSI committee. And underneath is A1 Pozef3ky of GE -- Hudson Falls -- headed up the capacitor's section. And I think it was T.K. Slought or Ed Raab, T. K. Slought being Westinghouse, headed up the -- I'ra pretty sure it was REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 A. 2 3 4 5 6 7 Q. 8 A. 9 Q. 10 A. 11 12 Q. 13 14 15 16 A. 17 18 19 Q. 20 A. 22 23 That was -- Excuse me. That thing in 1938 never went anywhere. It never went commercial. It wasn't used. It was just a little test blot in Florida by Hatfield. It's got nothing to do with this. Okay. Although, I was knowledgeable of this. Okay. No. This is the lab work that we discussed with Monsanto. Okay, okay. And do you recall specifically any of the results of the lab work that were conveyed or discussed with ANSI by Monsanto? Well to explain this, I was chairman of the steering committee -- so you'll understand. Okay. What was the steering committee? The steering committee in my job was to select and point out people who I knew would be qualified from the electrical industry to carry out the goals and the REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 162 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Q. 8 A. 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 17 A. 18 19 Q. 20 21 22 23 Slought -- headed up the transformer's section. And those were the working committees, and they did the work. They received this information that you were asking about. Right. And it wa3 given to them, the people at ANSI. And it was handled, and it was reported and published. And did ANSI publish the data that had been given them by -- Oh, yes. There's an ANSI publication. Okay. Did it discuss specifically or deal specifically with the issue of biodegradability of Aroclor 1016? Well, it discussed a lot of things. It wasn't written for that. okay, was there anything issued or written by ANSI after the presentation that wa3 made to ANSI by Monsanto regarding the biodegradability of Aroclor 1016? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 41 163 164 HARTOLDMONO013649 1 A. 2 Q. 3 A. 5 Q. 6 A. 7 8 9 Q. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS I don't know for aura. Okay. But thin was no secret information. It was dissemination. Okay. That*s why we had the ANSI committee to disseminate the state of the art and the information of the industry. Okay. Thank you. I'm done with that. THE WITNESS: Can you go off the record a minute? MR. DAVIDSON: Let's take a break. MR. ATKIN: Sure. I'm -- (A break was taken.) MR. ATKIN: Let us mark for identification as Benignus Nine a two-page document, which is a cover page, followed by a second page entitled "Index." The cover page is entitled "The Proper Handling of Aroclors REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 165 1 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 A. S Q. 7 8 9 10 A. 11 Q. 12 13 14 15 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 21 22 23 dealt with dermatology and toxicology; is that right? Yeah, right. Okay. Now, this is dated 12-1-54. Yes. Is that the first time that you put together such a booklet on the proper handling of Aroclors and their mixtures? I think so. Okay. To your knowledge, did Monsanto -- Did anyone from Monsanto ever put together a booklet on the proper handling of Aroclors and their mixtures in the electrical industry prior to December 1st, 1954? No. Okay. MR. ATKIN: Let me -- Let's mark as -- MR. DAVIDSON: I will -- Just for the record, I will note an objection to the last REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 Q. 20 22 A. 23 Q. and Their Mixtures in the Electrical Industry;" Monsanto Chemical Company; P. G. Benignus; 12-1-54. That -- These two documents bear Bate's Numbers AIM 001811 and ADM 0011812. (Benignus Exhibit Number Nine was marked for identification.) Mr. Benignus, you testified earlier about a document called "The Proper Handling of Aroclors'' that you had -- a booklet that you had put together. Right. Okay. Is this the booklet that you were referring to? Ye3. Is thi3 -- These two pages are just the cover and the first page, the index of that document, correct? Right. Okay. And chapter nine of the booklet REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 166 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 a 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 exhibit, Number Nine, as being incomplete. MR. ATKIN: Okay. Unintentionally. MR. ATKIN: Okay. Exhibit Number Ten that we will mark for identification i3 a one-, two-, three- -- ail right, four page3. The first two pages -- The first page is bearing Bate's Number ADM 001268, dated May 1st, 1956; Monsanto Chemical Company, and then it says P.G. Benignus on the bottom, entitled "The Proper Handling of Aroclors and Their Mixtures in the Electrical Industry." The second page, ADM 001267, is the index to that publication. The third and REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 42 167 168 HARTOLDMONO013650 1 2 3 5 6 7 a 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 15 IS 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS fourth pages of this exhibit bear Bate'3 Numbers ADM 001343 and ADM 001344. They are entitled "Chapter Nine," "Dermatology and Toxicology." (Benignu3 Exhibit Number Ten was marked for identification.) Yeah. All I really would like you to do is just to identify this, if you could. MR. DAVIDSON: Okay. I -- Let me put an objection on the record as to it not being a complete document. The numbers are not in sequence, and it's not clear that the second two pages -- MR. ATKIN: Right. MR. DAVIDSON: -- that pages REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 169 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 9 A. 10 Q. 11 A. 12 Q. 13 A. 14 15 Q. 16 A. 17 Q* 18 A. 19 Q. 20 21 22 A. 23 1956? They needed more copies. Okay. Was it exactly the same, to the beat of your knowledge? Yeah. Okay. Now, Chapter Nine here refers to -- The laat two pagea refer to dermatology and toxicology? Yea. Okay. Did you draft that chapter? Yea. By yourself? By myself, but with approval from medical. With approval from whom? I'm sorry. Medical. The medical. Okay. Mr. Wheeler? Yea. And when you say you drafted it, where did you get the information that went into this chapter? We discussed earlier skin patch tests. This is what is spoken about here in REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 43 171 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Q. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Q. 15 16 17 18 A. 19 Q. 20 22 A. 23 Q. three and four are actually the chapter reference. MR. ATKIN: Right, Right. That'3 what I would like to ask him, actually. MR. DAVIDSON: Okay. Okay. Let me ask you first about the -- the first two pages. MR. STEWART: Now, is this Exhibit Ten? MR. ATKIN: Yes, this is Exhibit Ten for identification. Let me ask you about the first two pages. Is this a booklet that you put together in 1956 on the proper handling of Aroclors and their mixtures? Yes. Okay. How does -- Do you recall how, if at all, it differs from the one that you put out in 1954? Same thing. Okay. Why did you issue a new one in REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 170 1 2 Q. 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 7 A. a q. 9 10 A. 11 12 13 Q. 14 A. 15 Q. 16 A. 17 Q. 18 19 A. 20 Q. 21 A. 22 23 the skin patch test. All right. And it also discusses experimental work on animals -- Yea. -- regarding aafe concentrations of vapors in workrooms, correct? * Yea. And where did you get that information from? From what we discussed earlier, which was the work done at Kettering, Keyhole, Drlnkard -- okay, other laboratories? ' Yes. Okay. On toxicology. When you say Drinkard, you're referring to the Drinkard Study? Yea. And when was that done? Well, again, during that time frame . when I was at -- in the organic . chemicals development department REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. . 172 HARTOLDMONO013651 1 2 Q. 3 5 6 Q. 7 A. 8 Q. 9 A. 10 11 12 Q. 13 14 A. 15 Q. 16 17 A. 18 19 20 21 22 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS prior -- I'd say prior to 1947, Do you know what the Drinkard Study found? No, I can't differentiate at this time -- All right. -- from the other. Okay. As I told you, I happened to be in the area. I was not assigned to anything in this work. Did you ever hear that PCBs can be -- can cause damage to the liver? Yes. Did you ever hear that PCBs can cause systemic injury? Really not, but if you say so. MR. ATKIN: Okay. Let's mark for identification Benignus -- MR. COX: Eleven. MR. ATKIN: -- Eleven. Thank you. A two-page -- two pages, bearing Bate's REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 173 1 A. 2 Q. 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 7 A. a Q. 9 10 A. 11 Q. 12 13 14 A. 15 16 17 18 Q. 19 A. 20 Q. 21 22 A. 23 -- on a drum. Okay. So as far as you know, thl3 is a-- Label. -- a label that was put on Aroclor 1254 drums; is that right? Yes. Okay. When they were sent to customers? Yes. Okay. Do you know when Monsanto started putting these labels on drums -- on Aroclor 1254 drums? I don't know when it was first started, but a3 far as I'm concerned, I knew about thi3 in 19 -- I would 3ay around mid 1940. Okay. That's my estimate. Okay. Do you have any involvement in the drafting of this label? No. But it uses what you just read in my publication, but the publication was REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 A. 16 Q. 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 A. 22 23 Q. Numbers ADM 00221 and ADM 002218. I suspect that the first page might have been cut off, but I can't tell the Bate's Number. (Benignus Exhibit Number Eleven was marked for identification.) (Discussion held off the record.) Okay. Let me ask you first about the first document. All right. Do you know what this is? Yes, I would think so. Okay. What is it? It looks like a label for a drum -On -- On a drum? Is that what you said? Serving industry which serves mankind. Aroclor. Caution. (Reading.) That would be a place to put it -- Okay. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 174 1 2 Q. 3 4 A. 5 6 Q. 7 A. 8 9 10 11 12 Q. 13 14 A. 15 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 Q. 20 21 22 A. 23 later than this statement. Did you look at the labels in coming up with the publication? Did you take -- I didn't look at them, no. But I knew what was supposed to be on the label. Okay. How did you know that? Because of what it says here, by prolonged and repeated contact with the skin and prolonged breathing of vapor and dU3t. 1254 wasn't dusty. It was a liquid, but that's beside the point. Okay. Do you know who drafted this -- this warning label? I would say the label department. They had a labeling department. A labeling department. Within which group? The organic chemicals division. Okay. And who headed up that department at the time you worked for Monsanto? I know who was in it. He's dead. And now, who headed it up, I can't remember REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 44 175 176 HARTOLDMONO013652 1 2 3 Q. 5 A. 6 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 A. 11 12 13 14 Q. 15 A. 16 17 18 19 20 21 Q. 22 A. 23 Q. DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS it at the moment. I see the guy, but I can't remember. Okay. Do you know when this label was -- was drafted? I would say -- MR. DAVIDSON: You don't have to guess if you don't know. I don't know exactly when. Do you know approximately when? The materials had to be labeled as to what's in the drum, you know. So just when this statement, if that's what you're getting at -- Yep. -- was put on -- I don't know when that was first put on. But the way it reads, this particular statement, I would say, as I already said, somewhere in -- around 1940 -- Wait a minute. It was '40 -- mid 1940s, I guess. Okay. I think. The -- If you could, turn to the second REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 177 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 A. 9 10 Q. 11 A. 12 13 14 15 Q. 16 17 18 A. 19 Q. 20 21 A. 22 23 Aroclor 1254 in the 1940s, do you know if this label, the first label that appears on the second page, on ADM 002218 -- whether that label was put on the drums in addition to the first label that's on page ADM 00221 or whether this is a subsequent label? This -- Okay. This is subsequent. This identifies 1254, a product. Right. And then it ha3 the caution label. I tried to tell you to the best of my ability when that was invoked. What does it say? What does this say here? It bears a date, but I cannot read it. It might just be a form number. I don't know. 19 -- '39? Is that possible? No, I don't want to -- -- *46, i3 it? Does anyone have a magnifying -- Well, not you. You're too young. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 Q. 6 7 8 9 10 A. 11 12 Q. 13. 14 15 16 A. 17 18 Q. 19 A. 20 Q. 22 23 page -- Uh-huh (indicating yes). -- of -- MR. COX: It's Eleven. B Eleven. Okay. I just want to ask you just -- if you know when -- are these -- Are these other labels that were used on PCBs? This was a statement that should appear on the drum package. Okay. Did this appear on the drum package -- Do you know when this type of statement appeared on the drum packages of PCBs? It had appeared before I wrote my -- Well, this - Okay. -- which was written in '54. I'm 3orry. When you testified earlier that -- that the first page is a label of a drum that was used -- label that was used on the drum of -- drums of REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 178 1 Q. 2 3 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 9 A. 10 Q. 11 A. 12 13 Q. 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 Q. 20 A. 21 Q. 22 A. 23 Well, I can't see. Just to the best of your -- to the best of your ability. You were trying to -- You were going to explain what the -Yes. -- difference -- What I would like to know is what the sequence is of these different labels. This was first. Okay. And I think we pinpointed that one. Now, you'll see here: Caution -- I'm sorry when you say "this," you're referring to the label -- First label. -- first label that we looked at, which wa3 on ADM -- Correct. -- 00221? Right. Okay. Now, you will notice here, It's different. Caution. Contains REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 45 179 180 HARTOLDMONO013653 1 2 Q. 3 A. 5 Q. 6 A. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Q. 14 A. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS chlorinated hydrocarbons. Right? Yea. It'a not specific for one of the Aroclors, aa the first one is. okay. I believe that this second -- And X don't know what the difference is between that one and the one below it. It both says: Contains chlorinated hydrocarbons. I believe the answer to this is that this came after -- to answer your question. Uh-huh {indicating yes) And I would aay this was with reference, not to a specific PCB, but to a blend of PCB with Chlorobenzenes tritetrachlorobenzenea. So we have a mixture of chlorinated hydrocarbons. you 3ee, which is correct in that these labels would have gone onto drum packages that were sent to the transformer users. Okay. Do you know approximately what REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 181 1 2 Q. 3 A. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. Is that right? To my knowledge, they didn't. And to further -- maybe help -- You see, this is the caution statement. The product name is not shown. Okay. This would apply to transformer blends made by Monsanto and shipped by Monsanto, but it would also apply to transformer blends using the General Electric Company trade name, rather than Monsanto's -- No, these -- Okay. These caution statements would have been put on the drums headed for the transformer users and GE and Westinghouse with their given trade names, not Aroclor. That's not on here. But Pyrenal, that was a trade name of GE; or it could be Inerteen, the trade name of Westinghouse; or Allis-Chalmer3, they use chlorexol. See, these users had their own trade names, and they may order REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 A. 6 7 Q. 8 9 10 A. 11 Q. 12 13 14 A. 15 Q, 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 22 23 time frame these labels -- this -- the labels that appear on the second page, on ADM 002218, when these labels were used -- when they began to be used? No, I don't, other than it was after such a specific label. Okay. Did you know if there were any subsequent labels that were used for the Aroclor products? Such as this? Yes -- No, not subsequent to the one on the first page, but subsequent to the ones on the second page. To the ones on the second page? Yeah. Do you know if there were any further labels? X don't think so. As far as we know, then, these labels that you see on the second page were -- were labels that were put on drums. And these labels did not change during the time, you know, until the time that you left Monsanto -- REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 182 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Q. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Monsanto to send a certain transformer askarel to some service shop somewhere. And to identify that they're getting the right thing, the label would indicate that, but it would also have this warning statement on it. Okay. You can -- I'm done with that one. MR. ATKIN: Let me hand you what's going to be marked for identification a3 Papageorge -- I'm sorry -- as Benignus Twelve. And this is a document with -- a ten-page document entitled "The PCB-Pollution Problem;" January 21st and 22nd, 1970; St. Louis Meeting with General Electric Company, bearing Bate's Numbers SCM 037621 through SCM 037630. (Benignu3 Exhibit Number REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 46 183 184 HARTOLDMONO013654 1 2 3 5 S 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Q. 18 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 A. 23 Q. DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS Twelva was marked for Identification.) (Discussion held off the record.) MR. DAVIDSON: Let me comment, I suppose, with respect to B Twelve and on the representation of Mr. Atkin. This is a rather lengthy document, and Mr. Benignus has not written -- read the entire document, but has read the paragraph that you have directed him to. MR. ATKIN: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Benignus, the document reports on a PCB-pollution problem meeting that took place in January of 1970, correct? Yes. Okay. Do you recall that meeting? Yes. Do you recall being present at that REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC.* I 185 1 2 Q. 3 A. 4 5 Q. 6 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Wheeler knew him. Okay. The purpose was to discuss what was known about the PCB problem. Okay. Ifd like you to turn to page two, if you could, to this section that -- Okay. -- that you just read, section D, which is entitled "Status of Aroclor Studies At Industrial Bio-Test. Table 2." Uh-huh (indicating yes). Okay. Now, this -- This goes on to say: In essence, results reported by Mr. Wheeler on chronic animal toxicity tests and animal reproducibility tests underway are not as favorable as we hoped or anticipated. Do you recall, Mr. Benignus, what toxicity tests in animal reproducibility studies were not as favorable as Monsanto had hoped for that are being referred to here? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 A. 3 4 Q. 5 A. 6 7 Q. 8 9 A. 10 11 Q. 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 A. 17 18 19 20 22 23 meeting? I recall arranging for that meeting to be held -- Okay. -- in St. Louis -- yeah. Okay. I arranged for the meeting. Who asked you to arrange for the meeting? I don't know it specifically. It didn't matter. Okay. But you recall that you arranged it? Yeah, because I knew the people. Okay. What was the purpose of the meeting? The purpose of the meeting was to discuss with General Electric -- and their representatives were from Pittsfield. He and I arranged a meeting. Mr. Gerad -- Gerade, GE toxicological consultant, I really didn't know him. Dr. Murphy, GE, New York, Environmental, I didn't know, but REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 186 1 A. 2 Q. 3 A. 4 Q. 5 A. 6 7 8 9 10 Q. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 23 A. I don't recall specifically. Do you recall generally? Generally, yes. And what do you recall generally? Well, what it says. Evidence -- maybe I shouldn*t of said alarming evidence -- of the effect of hatchability and production of thin egg shells regards white leghorn chickens. Okay. This is the -- you're referring to the next sentence, which saying ~ which says, in quotes: Particularly alarming is evidence of the effect on hatchability and production of thin egg shells regards white leghorn chickens. The studies involved Aroclor 1242, 1254, and 1260. So are those the -- Those are the studies that you're referring to? Yes. Okay. Did you draft this mem -- this memo? . Well, who signed it? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 47 187 188 HARTOLDMONO013655 1 Q. 2 3 5 6 Q. 7 8 9 10 11 A. 12 13 14 Q. 15 A. 16 17 18 Q. 19 20 21 22 A. 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS I believe you -- Well, it has -- I don't want to -- I believe you did. Take a look at page ten, the last page. Oh, January 26, 1970 -- Yeah, X drafted it. Okay. And what was particularly, alarming, if you recall, about the evidence of the effect on hatchability and production of thin egg shells of white leghorn chickens? Well, as much as I said just a moment ago, to me, it wasn't all that alarming but -- Well, why did you use that terminology? Yeah, why did X use it? Because I think someone else felt that way, and I picked that terminology up. Do you recall what about those studies specifically, about hatchability and production of thin egg shells regarding white leghorn chickens was disturbing? Well, the chicken has thin egg sheila. which all chickens tend to have in the REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 189 1 2 3 4 Q. 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 9 10 11 A. 12 Q. 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 17 18 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 23 A. oyster shells and feed them calcium. So this exacerbated that. So it'3 not desirable. Okay. And that wa3 the basis for it. Uh-huh (indicating yea). The -- The last sentence there 3ays: Some of the studies will be repeated to arrive at better conclusions. Do you see that? Yes Were the studies repeated? I don't know. Do you know if Monsanto ever had testing done regarding hatchability and production of eggs which arrived at better conclusions than the original studies that are being referred to here? I do not know -- No. Okay, okay. Do you know who was doing the tests on white leghorn chickens? No. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22 23 spring of the year. This is why if 1 you're raising chickens, it's a good idea to feed them some oyster shells. 3ome calcium. You know about this. Now -- . MR. STEWART: He doesn't, but I do. MR. ATKIN: He's right. Now, your question: What is detrimental? If the egg shell is too thin, the chicken, when it bumps into it, it breaks too easily. And that was a complaint about DDT and the environment, and PCB was included in bird egg shells. It 3eeraed they reduced the population, they thought, of certain species of sea gulls or whatnot, so it*3 an undesirable thing. Because these chickens, as I said, they tend to have thin egg shells in the spring of the year. I know this firsthand. That's why you buy oyster -- cracked REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 190 1 Q. 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 A. 6 7 ' 8 Q. 9 A. 10 11 12 13 14 Q. 15 A. 16 17 Q. 18 19 20 21 22 A. 23 Okay. Was it somebody from IBT, from Industrial Bio-Tests? I don't know. Okay. What I did here -- MR. DAVIDSON: That's okay. He didn't ask you a question. Is there something you wanted to add? I was going to say -- By in large, what I did here was compile what information of the progress report that was at hand at this point in time, and I didn't do thi3 work. Okay. So that it could be discussed with the people from GE. Do you recall any discussions regarding what you wrote in this sentence, that the studies should be repeated to get better conclusions? Do you recall any discussions about that? No. Somebody must have injected this into this, and I carried it on. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 48 191 192 HARTOLDMONO013656 1 Q. 2 A. 3 5 Q. 6 A. 7 Q. 8 9 10 11 A. 12 13 Q. 14 A. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS Do you remember who it was? No, I don't remember. I don't know unless you pick it up out of here. Was it Wheeler or -- Okay. You don't know? I don't know. Okay. Do you know, sir, whether Monsanto had a practice in general to repeat toxicity studies that they found were not favorable? No. MR. DAVIDSON: Objection. You don't know? No. MR. ATKIN: Give me one minute. All right. Thankyou very much, Mr. Benignua.We're done. THE WITNESS: Okay, Jack. MR. DAVIDSON: I want to go off the record. (Discussion held off the record.) REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC.1 2 3 4 5 193 1 A. 2 Q. 3 A. 4 Q. 5 A. S Q. 7 A. 8 Q. 9 10 11 A. 12 Q. 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 A. 17 Q* 18 19 20 21 22 23 Yea. Are you in -- generally in good health? Yes. And you play golf regularly? Yes. And you play tennis regularly? Yes. All right, air. ^ In the courae of your employment with Monaanto, were you ever peraonally expoaed to PCBs? Yes. Did you ever get them on your skin? Yes. Did you ever have occasion to breathe the vapora from the PCB3? Yes. Do you have any concern at this time for the fact that you were exposed to PCBs during your career? MR. STEWART: Note an objection. MR. ATKIN: Objection. MR. STEWART: We'll object to the Improper -- REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 2 3 BY MR. DAVIDSON: EXAMINATION 4 Q. Mr. Benignus, I'm Gerard Davidson, and 5 as you know, I've been representing you 6 today. And I have just a couple of 7 follow-up questions. 8 9 A. 10 Q. 11 Let me ask you your current age? Eighty-eight. And when will you -- When is your birthday? 12 A. 13 Q. 14 15 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 August 30th. All right, sir. And you testified earlier in your deposition that in doing laboratory work early on, you did lab work on PCBs; is that correct? Yes. You also testified earlier that you were taking some inhalants for assisting your breathing? Yes. 22 Q. Is that the only medication you're on 23 now? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 194 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ii 12 13 14 15 IS 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 MR. DAVIDSON: I didn't get finished with the question. MR. STEWART: Well, we want to let the witness know that we may have objections -- MR. DAVIDSON: Okay. MR. STEWART: Self-aervlng. MR. DAVIDSON: If you will give them -- This not -- cross-examination. I think if you're going to call him aa your witness, as an adverse witness -- Give them an opportunity -- MR. STEWART: An adverse witness would -- direct examination. MR. DAVIDSON: Give them an opportunity to object. which I'm sure they want to do. THE WITNESS: Uh-huh (indicating yes). REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 49 195 196 HARTOLDMONO013657 1 Q. 2 3 5 A. 6 Q. 7 A. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 DEPOSITION OF PAUL GEORGE BENIGNUS . Do you currently have any concern about your own health, based upon the fact that youhad exposure to PCBs during your -- No. -- career atMonsanto? No. MR. ATKIN: Note my objection. MR. DAVIDSON: That*3 all I have. (AND FURTHER DEPONENT SAITH NOT.) 197 REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1 I do hereby certify that the witness wbose 2 attached deposition was taken before ae was by ae 3 first duly cautioned and swore to tall nothing but ! the truth in the cause aforesaid; that the 3 testimony contained herein was by ae reduced to 6 writing in the presence of said witnesses by Beans 7 of stenography and afterwards transcribed by Beans 8 of coaputer aided transcription. The foregoing is 9 a tree and accurate transcript of the whole of the 10 testiaony given by said witness, as aforesaid. 11 I do further certify that I aa not 12 connected by blood or aarriage with any of the 13 parties or their attorneys or agents and that 141 aa not an eaployee of any of tbea, nor 15 interested in tbs natter of controversy. 16 IN trrostt BB&0P, I have hereunto 17 set ay band and affiled ay notarial seal at 18 Gadsden, Alabasa, County of Etowah, this 8th of 19 Kay, 1998. 20 130 : | 22 Misty Perry Notary Public, Alahaaa-at-Larg# 23 My Cosaisslon Expires: 11-12-2001 REGICUAL fSPCRTBS SERVICE, DC. 50 HARTOLDMONO013658