Document JJMEEppaj04ka4bXB64ng9ajZ

Me Rae 34 1 Bernard McNamara or to be briefed by Dr. Bernard 2 l McNamara? . & 3 MR. TAYLOR: Objection to form, 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ; 12 particularly the word briefed. a . Yes, I believe he has come over to describe his programs to me at times. Q . Did he talk to you and describe to you v the program, the defoliation program or his work wi th -her b ic id es? A. In general terms,yes. . Q. Do you remember the contents of those discussions? 13 A. I sure don't. That's 20 years ago. 14 Q. Dr. McRae, were you aware that Edgewood 15 Arsenal was doing work in terms of chemical Warfare 16 agents? Was that part of your responsibility? 17 A. I was aware of what they were doing, yes. 18 Q. Did it come to your attention that ( 19 Edgewood Arsenal was checking and working with the> 20 . feasibility of using dioxin as a chemical warfare 21 agent? 22 MR. TAYLOR: Objection to form. 23 a . No, that never came to my attention. 24 q . Did you know -- 25 a . As a matter of fact, I'm not even sure it's w a g a a n d spinelli i Me Rae 35 1 true but 9 0 ahead. 2 Q. Did you know Dr. Frit2 Hoffman^ ait 3 Edgewood Arsenal? V 4 A. No, I did not. 5 Q. Did you have occasion to read at any time 6 a report entitled the Hoffman Trip Report? 7 A. I'm sorry, I couldn't recall whether I did or 8 no t . 9 Q. Did- you regularly receive reports from 10 the laboratories at Edgewood Arsenal? 11 A. No, not regularly at all, 12 Q. Did you know Dr. Benjamin Witten from 13 Edgewood Arsenal? 14 A. The name seems familiar but no, I don't think I 15 know him. 16 Q. Do you recall having discussions with Dr. 17 McNamara regarding Agent Orange or any of the 18 herbicides in use in Viet Nam? 19 A. I recall his describing this program in general 20 and what they were doing with respect to herbicides. 21 Q. Were you aware. Dr. McRae, that in 1963, 22 Edgewood Arsenal was investigating the toxicity of 23 the herbicides in use in Viet Nam? 24 MR. TAYLOR: Objection to form. 25 A. Well, I don't think I can answer that quite w ag g an d spinelli certified shorthand reporters 43 A. I don't recall him at all. Q* Dr. Bernard McNamara, you've indicated % that you knew him. Dr. Charles Minarick from Fort petrick, did you know Dr. Minarick? A. Yes, I did. Q. Did you have occasion to meet with Dr. Minarick? A. Yes. Q. Was the subject of the herbicides in use in Viet Nam ever the occasion of any of those meetings with Dr. Minarick? A. I recall meeting with him many times on these programs and I imagine herbicides must have come up in some of them Q. Do you remember the substance of any of your discussions with Dr. Minarick regarding the herbicides in use in Viet Nam? A. I'm sorry. That's too long ago. I couldn't give you a good answer on that. Q . When you were meeting with General Delmore and Dr. McNamara and Dr. Minarick, can you tell me -- I understand that you can't remember the substance of the conversations because it was long ago, but what areas would you have been interested i in given your general duties and responsibilities? W O Q O Q p c T s p j n g llj -- _ |TTBri^ ^ ! ^ ^ ^ 0 f ^ a n ^ re_ 9 ^ e ^ ____ Me Ra e 44 1 MR. TAYLOR: Objection on grounds of 2 asking for speculation. ^ 3 Q. You can answer. 4 A. I could have been interested in any areas that 5 related to chemical and biological warfare. 6 Q. Do you recall whether you spoke with D r 7 Minarick as to his recommendations as to which 9 agents should be used in Viet Nam? .Herbicide agents 9 I'm referr ing to . 10 MR. TAYLOR; Objection to form. 11 A. I just can't remember that. I'm sorry. That's 12 a long time ago. 13 Q . Would you look at I think It's the third 14 page of your report. There's a list of attendees at 15 this meeting. Do you have that in front of you? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. I'd like to go down the list with you. 18 Did you know Dr. Thurston of the,Office of Secretary 19 of Defense? That would be the fourth name on the 20 list. 21 A. Certainly not well. 22 Q. But you had occasion to meet with him? 23 A. Yes, I have had. 24 Q . Were the agents 2,4,5-T and 2,4-D, was 25 that something that you discussed with Dr. Thurston? w a g a an d spinelli certified shorthand reporters Mc Rae - direct 95 1 Q You made recommendations to the President1 2 science advisor concerning which projects were 3 effective 4 A. Sometimes we did that, yes. 5 Q. The President's science advisor in turn 6 would make those recommendations to the President of 7 the United States? 0 MR. TAYLOR: Objection to form. 9 A Yes. 10 Q. Do you recall receiving reports from 11 various agencies within the Defense Department that 12 had an interest in projects involving herbicides, 13 receiving reports from those agencies? 14 A. As I've said, we received reports from the 15 Department of the Army and from the Office of 16 Defense, Research and Engineering regarding 17 herbicides, yes 18 Q. Did you usually read those reports? 19 A Yes. 20 Q. Were you familiar with what is known as 21 the Office of the Assistant Chief of Staff for Force 22 Development sometimes called OACSFOR? 23 A. Yes, I'm aware of that. 24 Q. Do you recall if you had any contact with T.5 people that were in that staff office?