Document Gmg9YB9aR9EkLo4rm6ER4R84m

msrrrcrz. Z:~C. t , 210 ROtrn: ,. of the BOARDOF DIP~CTORS Tues day , June 17, 1975. at 3:30 A.l~_ Innisbrool~. Tarpon Sprin!:s. r'lorida J. ~7.Greenen ,:.. t. :~essier Si~on. ~icc-rresident :~. it. ~:oc111i :t. R.. Zac."arias S. S. COOl:a,. J. L. Cle~~ ~FrICE?.S I'P.!.SE::r . ~. Gat~e. President A. A. Laus, r~ea~u~er _. ~':. ::Jrisla:lE. Secrc~ary ? Gor=~n. Counsel .c , .j c :.~. 1-1are!:1OntCorporatiot1 Bendix Corporatiot1 Drassbestos ~~nufac.tunll& Rayl:. as t::.;- :14,!ll':a t:tau. L"K!. Carlisle Corporation Abe.'t Corporation. S. ~. '.lellman Corporat1.on Cot'l'- Gat~e Corporation ~~renont Corporation Friction :~terials S~dards Cl~P? & :isenberg Institute _~e~ Corporation 0:Fe der a t i on uro;:,e::n ::andacturers of :ric:io" ~:ate=ials (?E:~:) :-.-,e '._. :;" -- :.-.c :~~~:i:ig :-;cl~ -:<lrc:"113, 1:;75 n a d b een cis:r:ibuted. :(0 '::'::-:"::::'':~.=: .. ~:-:: s;;gf~S:cd- :"~o n ~otio .. c c Ly r.J~dc. s e conde d , arid unani::'lously _- --..-7' . .~......... .1 ~-:: , PLAINTIFF'S i EXHIBIT IWv, molfiD :anutes of the ::eet1nu cf the Boa:e of D~rectors - 10 - June 17. 1975 Upon OOtion duly cadet seconded and un3r.i~ously passed it ~as ~S0LV~: Tnat the report of t~e ~ual1ty Control Su:'-Cotr.r.Uttee be accepted as 'Jritten. ,'~SBESTOS STUDYCO:::rTTEE f.EPO!tT :ir. Drislaoe read the report for the Chairman, ~1r. 1. H. ~!eaver. Please refer to Exhibit 9. !~. ~;eaver' s report expressed concern on the accusations that have been pressed against the industry concerning the asbestos standards.' Be revi~.ed some of the activities of the resulatory agencies over the past year. The last four para- graphs in ?lr. Heaver's report aroused sone controversy. One director susses ted that the last four para~raphs ~e deleted. ':here is a serious question as to uhether the OSltA. 2 fiber per ce limt (Hhich is to be effective July 1, 1976) can be met by friction caterial manufac~urers. ;~. Heaver indicated in his repart that installers of friction caterial are now coming und~r the surveillance Df Dr. Selikoff and ot!ler pr<lponents of stronger regulation. Several t:;eI:lbers brought up the point that eveQ wid! t.he r~suLu:1oc.s !:here is a ~reat difficulty io getting labor to help in cO'Cpliaoc.e. Even ~hen. it is written into the 1~1 and instructions are placed irt the work place the working people do not cooperate. Counsel Has questioned as to the contents of this report ':7here !1r. Ueaver indicated that he did not see any justification for a change in. the attitude of t.~e regulatory agencLes , I: -;.as s ta t.ed that this \.as llr. Ue.aver' s vi~'"Point. Legal Cour~el stat~d t.~at this is not a legal Matter and does not e~ose the Institute. It '~as questioned ~hether sections of this re~or~ as ~tten could ill any nay har: the Institute. Legal Counsel indicated that this t:as not: the case. Upon notion duly ':lade. secor.ded and pas s ed , ~,Tit~ five af:it::lat:ive ne~ative, it ~3S and :"-:00 :;,:::S~l.V::l: To accept the report of the Asbestos Study Committee as written. :.t th~ .~arch 13, 1975 :;eeti:1S of the ::'oa:-c of I:'irectors, the Secretary ~.J'as advisee to cerrcac t the Asbes t cs Infor.:!a:ion .".ssociation (!,L;) t.~it:h tOne ieea of Ci5~us5in= ?cssi~le financial assistance to the Asscciatioh. !~. Drislane ~;rcte :::-. : .cr ene s s , Secretary of A!A after the neetinr ?.::.,j had just received a r epLy , I~ :~. ::ere::.ess: reply he Lnd Lca t ad :,is ~??:eciation and that: 0-: ~is ::-:ecuth~ CCl"!:!:':tee for t~:: offer by t~e I~stitute. :io~;E:va=. the Association f~l: :h: c es t :c:lY to s uppo r t t n e r..I.; ~."c::.~ =y i:1di~"ic9,;~1 :7:e-:::a.rs b'eco='lin~ me~ers of :~~ 1.5~~3tC3 I~for~atic~ Association. ~e i~~ica:2~ t~e r~neral fee scructure :::a: :-..!:."~es:cs ',"as cc~sici=:':"::': a s urv ev c:: :::,e :1c.a.:":~_ ~:'s:c:)., of \,o:-ke.:-s i:'l O:ie C'f t":1-:ir ?1,,::1t5_ 7::~y, 2S an i:;ci-::'::i.ial co:::?any pere s?o:;scri::.g a::':: ?ayi:1Z fer ~ scr.'ey ':~ic~ =o'~ld :,e c. help to all i:idust:;'. ~ie ir.cica~eci ::::a.:. i: ::oulc ~e je::er :f i;.c~s::ry ?artici?ated i:1 :~e activities of t~e Asbestcs :~fcrnat1on :.ssocia:io:1 tc sl.,;?port si~ilar ty?E:S 0: '.:orl~. ::e :~li: :.>.:i"C :::!1e :...s..soca~,"tion di= need t::e s~?port of our T'lem:'ers. -1 . -, / ,/ :~:4ute! c: :;,e :~ec!:1r:~ cf :he ;card of Dir~c:ors -11 - June 17, 1975 ':::. Jrisla:".! c.:'S?la::;c soce T'0ster~ that had b een sezt =:)' ::r. ::ereness of the . .~=estos r=;or=at~c: :~so=i~tion. these postcrs had been received at Innisbroo~. ::,ese pcs t ar s had ::i::::. such as "I! you clonlt sncke no<~. doolt start. If you do $~cke ~uit." a::d":ac"..l'.:::ellS: spills--!l.ever dry s~.'ecp.' There '1ere others to :-.::l? cal:. v ~!' the! .~G.~:.::~ to '.:orkers concernin; the asbestos eust problem. A 701~:t~at ~as ~C~= ::aised several tioes is that the worker~ should be advised :: :~e s:;ric~~=ess c: :he pro~lem. These posters ~re e~ assist in ~ettin~ this =e$sa~~ across. It ~7as sug~ested that participation in the Asbestos Info~Ation /..:;scci=.t:'c:: as =e::-"::'e:s,~ould help friction materia~s naoufacturers '-rith the ~~;;'estcs ?!'c~lem. ::l(; Sccrctar:~ .:as ;;~"'is!d to send a copy of ~'1r. :~ereness lettar of JU!1e 12, 1975 :0 the =e==e::shi~. i~Cicatins the AlA's invitation to have the~ join their ~sso- ciatic:l. ~t this ?C~~~ ft ~as stated that the ;~bestos Study Co~~ttee had passed a :-esolcti::r. as fo110;75: 'That the Ccmci ttee requests eUidance from the aoaTd of ~irecto=s =c~c~r~~g the ?ro~lem of the euo fi~er/cc li:dt and the laCk of :eaal::ili t:! of t~e ::c!:1:"ranefilter t:lat..~odfor :,easure!'lent of. fiber eeenes ," ~e "'~bestos S~'~::y (;u~t;tee nel"o::rs H.:!re c01.lI.:eneJ tho: u:'i:~ t1:.e ~er~r.1ne fllt:er :ech~que is ~~e on17 ~ethod new available for ~easuri:: asbestos eoncentra~ons it is a ~cst c~reli~~la tool for enforcenent of the o~o fibers/ec licit. In searc~i~; for :cica~ce for the Co~:tee one Director stated that our objection tc '.l:~ 0: -:::'i:o :::ct..~c~for enf or cement; HOt:s.lC not be constructive. It uould~just stir ~a::e=s C? 'it~o'.lt ,rovi:1~S an glterna:ivc. 50~e re~ulatory ~uthorit1as are rece?ti ve ,:~~r!! sugses :10:15 are nede for i~!'ovement. Si::Iply indicating our ~i~s~!is:action ::i t:' the t!l~:::,rane filter oethod for enforceI:lent: m@ht be co~sicier~c as 2 ne:ative attitude .:...Jire::tc= ~:a~::ci ~:..~: '.:::'e hycienists ~~ill use cO::=Jonsense a.,d realize the :a.llii::'lity ~f t;;~ =~:::"!'ane filter tachnique. !t is fairl~ t:ell 1:.na;:n in -~~:~~t~,, a~~ ~over~~;~: that t~{s techniou.e is falli~le. ~~,11e the directors :::;resse:: ~c:-.:.~::::: c''-~r ~::e c.::~ of this .:lS a!! (!:1:o:'c~~::: t.ool. t:hey do no~ feel ::-:a~ c..."'1Y :::;;;:i :u:,:; ~od ::.=:1. ::':loul~ ~<: e>:pre::scc tc ~;;::.~co~c~rni:lG its use. It '.:a.~ tel: ::-;at t:'0:2 a:::for:l:l8 t~!! uS:~:. rclatio:"lS arc ai:are of the dispari~ in :~:~~=~~1~=~ t~i! :=~b~i~c~. .'::: ::-.:'s =::..::: ::.: . .!:i~ 0: ::-:e ::-::7:, incicat~c ::12:: :'c:-l: 1':<'.d bec!l. done in Europe ::=::==::i::: ; ~~;:;2.i::: ::::0 cc~~tin~. He said t.::a: :-::'5 as':>es tos associ.;:;:ior. ~aI:Jbre ::::-.::' :=.2.=. :: :.' ::..~.a':.te (:ra~ce) thad Ci:1e:-=?c:-: ~:~:-~~i~:fo= ~he association in ::-.; ~:.=.~:'i:-.~ :.~:': ::'~:-.:i:::: ,"r(!~. ,:e:::~ers ex~~a.~:,a c.li:c!:: ?::c see ~O" ... the counts ::-:~ :-';:. ::::5 '7'!: ::':::" :C:- 2 r::?ort C~ this 5 t'~~:;' :: ~.~assu~?ested that there :"5 nc ::~:.= ~~:::~ ~: ~;as~=in~ :~e as~~stos conce:ltr~tion anc it is nost 1il:ely --_'5:~:~,.';' ~ :::;:. ~':'::: t~.~s :-::=:~10C re[arcilzss of c.~'l i .q.u:: frc'-l ~'1e Institute .-.. _ ... -._-.-; . or - ,.'::' :::-;;=:-,:~: ~ :-:,:c..ie '''; ..icr:. ha~ ":leen s:-:C"~:: ::: G:eat Eritain by Granada .' ::;:-.::':::.: '::::2.:=.:" :>~=::--:'.S:a::~.:ird :~sta~e?' 7";-,1.5 :::;vie had intervietvs -::~ith e::::; ..::::-.~= :z~.~:'.:";:"::=c:,,.:1 -=J~\, c.~c ~:-. ?,e~:":-~C'ff 0: ::~t::-~:Si:lai. They cisccssec :~.:2.' ::-.. -:::>.-=.:=-:. =:=: s~.:.I.2.=a.l yc;a.=~ a~c ~:-:~~ :csul~e= :.:'- ::-.e 2 fi~ers/cc l:"=i: . .:. -:::== :--:::~:-.: :-(;';=,:,::;" c: C~:.:. ':Jy Jr. L~i::so:::: :'::-::ca:ec to Jr. S~likoff t.:-:at t~.e : ::':-::::,':: ::':-::': ~.:-:: ~,~t ':>e satisf2ctory. :-;-.e cc::::-cv~:sy ::,erueen Jr. :~:i;;:::=.::: :-::. :'.;":':-.sc~,:;','as s:lo~.-:1in this ::'1:-.. T::e arE1..-::e::t.cente:-ec on ::.:-.:=:-;:::a:~:i::-, c: ::',C: 5~a:i:stics. It ';~s rc:c:-_-:-:~::~=c :~Gt t:,c T:ovie be shO."-.".n ':inutes of :he ~;eeti::& o~ the Board of ~irectors - 12 - June 17, 1975 The ~ecreeary brou;ht u? for discussion the fact that a Congressuoman from ;ietl Jersey CIrs. :1illicent Fe!r.'lickh)as proposed legislation for the sale of Cnrysotile asbestos froM the national stockpile. So~e individual asbestos users and the Asbestos Infort:l.3tioAnssociation supported ~1rs. Fem-rick 1n this leeislation. ~e purpose of the legislation is to help industry reduce une~plo~~ent brought on by the asbestos shortage. The number of tons that might be released is about 10,000. It is not felt that this is really siGnificant out in any case its release cannot hurt. The Secretary uas directed to tIrite a letter to 11rs. Fenwick 10 support of this legislation. A~r.lUhL HEE'IIllG COUHITTEE l1r.Drislane read the report for the Chairman of the Annual :ieed.n~ Committee, :~. Sarton. S-e, e txhibit 14. In summary, the report recommended a return to Innisbrook in June 1976, and if that was not satisfactory, ~~e Phoenix-Scottsdale area. Upon motion duly made, seconcied and unanimously passed i' ~a .. r.ESOLVED: That the report of the Annual !,jeeting Committee be accepted as i7ritten. HISTORICAL SALES REPORTI:i1G The Secretary read a report on Historical Sales t~hich is EJdl1b1.~13. In essence, par::icipation vas good Tolith15 of 19 members reporting. The reporting has been moved to a quarterly basis as of l~rch 31, 1975. (!his ~as de~ded at the 30ard of Directors ::eeting on Harch 13, 1975). It:!tllediateplryior to. the ::leeting,~he accountants advised tha t the :iarch 31 report 'uas ready and '-'ould be distributed to the ma~ership. At this poi~t, tha subject of listing those reportinc in each catecory ~;.as brought up. At the present time, the names of the companies re?Qrting in at least one category are listed at the bottom of the report, and the nucber of coopanies (but not the names) reporting in each particular category also is listed, e.g., X number of oecbers reported 0rake linings, Y number of m~bers re?c~ted brake blocks, etc. It had been sU8gestec that the names of the mer~ers repc~ti~; i~ each of these categories also be listed. so that the composite saLes figu:-as in each category ~:ill be racre me andng f uL, TIle objection to lis-;ing the r.l~!"".1r:elpeorrsting in each category is t.....at the Insti.tut.emus t; be careful i: s~les ~ata is passed out to members. It is apparent that if only ~~o ':.c:::;'.cr;serereporting in a category one ne::oer ~:ould,know the quant1tie~ of :he ot~~r reportin3 ~eober. At a level of th~ee repcr::in~, one might ~e~ a ?~etty good ~an~le. At fcur and above the data p~obably could not be broken ccr::"7': t o in:iivicual ::cr::bers.Legal Counsel vas q".le~iedccncerr.i.ng this ?:-o::le.=:.. ~e i~di:ate.~ that there should be no problem if at least four ~er~ repc=:icg :, ~ ~a=~ cc:cgcry. UpC: :oticc duly'=acie, seconded and unaninously ~assed it Das ~:SJLV~: Teat the Eoa~d of Jirectors r~co~ends that'the Historical Sales ~e.port list the na~es of those reportinG in each category "'hen there are at least four ~eporting in chat category. 'linutes of ::."le!:~cti!!r ef c.'1. ~oord of "ir.etor. - IG - JU.~I'b~IS7S ~!hile ::r. Sinon ~;~ su--:;sti:le" t~at a~~i~!1ncTltD~~ould be ::tad!! for the Ait'lCO drilled vers f cas , ::r. :-~;clli di~ not con~ur. :~r. :'oa11i st3ted that: (1) these ar~ not ori;1:21 eQci~~:nt r~l~as~~. (2) Further ~e have no: indicated shoe drilli:1~ ~.'hether it ~:~!: druo C~ ~isc in the pas t , (3) Further, if the Institute uere to set: \;? !lu~er~ b as ed on Ainco I s drlllin~ p3tter~s ue wouLd be setting UP :\ieco as a sta:"lcarc. :!r. ::oalli felt that if ue ~,'ere to take such action, . it ~.ould put Aicco bc\;stries in a position above others uho might'decide on drilline for replace~nt oarket shoes. Lbe Directors su~ported the Data Book and Technical Co~ttee posit10~ of not ?rovid1n~ n~I assignoents to parts made by a replace:x.:1t car:~et supplier such as Ai.oco. The !r.stitute releaseD. ~!:~i:"':7..-:cnts'ill cont t nuc to ~e C.:l5e.~ on C'ri-:o:!.nal'C'uipment ~=Th~l2 :.~::..,,~ ce f~rt~e= l'::Jsir:~s:.trc113ht the 4":te..,~~or. C'f "t.'1e Bo;u-,f of ~ireetors, U~O:l ~o:ior. duly ~ade. seconded and un~~~ously passed it uas Adjourned: ~::0P. :. ~"? Dds Lane Seer':tOlI')' June 1975 ASBESTOS STUDY COHMITTEE REPORT :.~::s:::.::iustrh.l.canag ers az-e well aware ef the Lncz-eas i.ag amount of ~:'::ltehey =.;s:.devote to ;:::-oble!':O:s-elatingto occupational and environ:nental haz az-cs , ~ :-ecent yea:-s ::e7.gove~ent agencies have been created which have b::-oad ~c~e:-s to inves:.igate, regulate and centrol industrial operaticns. During the ~ame neriod the uandates of traditional agencies also have been broadened in :-es~e~t to envi:-c~ental concerns, and frequently there are du~licate and som~times cor~licting functions. Coincidentally, the scienti~c community has been producing an increasing volume of evidence regarding hitherto unsuspected health ~azards associated with various raw materials, chemicals and manufacturi..-.g met~ods. Adding further -:'0 the burdens these developments place on industrial managers is a fal' m:>re mili:.ant union attitude on occupational health matters. Union spokescen, such as I. W. Abel, Tony Mazzochi and Sheldon Samuels, freely admit they have been negligent in facing these issues in the past. However,' recently a new attitude has been in evidence and it is exemplified by Mazzochi's stat.e!!lentthat., "We live in a nation of corporate law breakers." Samuels has no't been as charitable; he prefers to use the term "Corporate Mlrderers." .. The p:-esent cion objective, as stated by Ma.zzochi, is to "use professionals to educate Labor-er's to understand health hazards" and to "use collective bargai.ni.Dg to get legislatio~ necessary to obtain good occupational health care." The ~ CIO has an active campaign to use the news media to get the message across ~o the ge~eral FJblic as well as to their members. The f:-iction ~aterials industry position with respec~ to the aSbestos health issl.leis abost ~que. Few other industries are as heavily dependent. upon asbestos for the successful performance of their products, and ~roper handling of occu?ational ~d envi:-onmenta~ problems associated with the use of asbes~os is essential to the survival of manufacturers of asbestos-based friction ma~rials. DlIi~~ the pas~ year yo~ Asbestos Study Committee has worked closely with OSHA, E?J.., lEOSH and "':oheisrubcontractors as well as with ..A..IA./NA regc:rding new st.2ndards 2..'1rdegarding changes to existing standards and guidelines for :regulation o~ asbest~s as ~e~l as other naterials. We have sought to keep abreast of new info~a~~on rega~=ing asbestos health effects, control methods ~~d regulations ==2..~a~~"gfr~= ~~e ~edical/scientific communities, various gove~-ment offices and c:~e:- =~~ces. =~e rollo~~g high~ights should be of interes~. OSHA ~=~~=p=se~ s~~dards for arsenic ~~d for ketones presen~ new formats ~:h e=;~~s:= en the action level concept, on ~ork practi~es and C~ ~:-ovec ==~ical sur.ei11~'1ce. Expected :-evisicns to t~= asbestos s:'2..-:~a:;'::-:'::::~l.y.ill folle;-: erie. of t.he se f'orraa t s . I..i ttle or no ::.~ze :.:::-::r:;ec:,e:' ~- pe:::iss:~l.e 2.:"=~O:"=--~: concent.rat Icns 0::- Ln mc::.i- ~~e e:-:-2~:O~S ~ss~~~ion by CSr~ tha~ the f:-ic1.ionoate~als indust:-y :=~lc ~ecia:.e~y cc=?ly ~itt ~he 2 fpce st~~card hopefully has bee~ , -2- 2azardous =aterial :abelL~ is ~~der stuCy by an O~~~ aivisory comcittee, ~~d labor ~embers have called f:r ch~~es i~ asbestos product labeling. NIOSE A new electron microscope laboratory has been provided at Cincinnati and is being used to investigate the quantity and size distribution of asbestos fibers and other aerosols i= occupational en\~ror~ents. Emphasis is on submicron particles and fibers less than 5 microns long. EPA EPA is undertaking a thorough investigation of the presence of asbestos in all areas of t.he environment. The work involves contract studies, in-house research and joint activities ~th other ~ov~rnment aga~cies. There is considerable concern regarding the effectiveness of the "no visible emissions" standard in protecting the public from airborne asbestos. Pressure is on EPA from labor representatives and medical and envirpnmental groups for a "no detectable level n regulation. ErA proposed waste disposal restrictions would create problems for some friction materials manufacturers. FDA A delay has been imposed on FDA's proposal to ban use of asbestos i~ fil:ers for beverages and food products ~~til they C~~ conduct eA~er~e~ts to dete~~e if long te~ exposure to inges~ed asbestos fibers represe~t a definitive hazard to huoan health. A fo~ ~llion dollar animal feeding study has bee~ ~~p=oved for de~er~i~ation of health effects from inges~ing various doses of v~ious kinds of asbestos. FTC s Ln Ln r~s""'onse c ~ ~_""_w __ ., . C:::~I(~~-QerCt,,.: i~ """"'-....J 'r - ..... "o."J'"'-oaQ~_e_ .,s ... _ .~.. t r~~-,\,,0 c::. ,..,Q .. ~ .. i-""' .1.......,4.0.. __ ..... c, group) in reg~rd to labeling of as~es~os-ccn~~i~ing ~~o~ucts. ::'1::-: :'$ ::'0 "::lO'I'm action by this age:;cy _.. :-egar:'to asbes tos at this ti=e. '- \ - 3- ) CDC Tnis agency of HE~ ,~as issued a report indicatL~ adverse effects on pulconary function due to exposure to asbestos at two locations o~e of ~hich was a textile based friction material pl~~t in New E.:"..gland. MEDICAL Selikoff continues predictions of epidemic of asbes~os re2ated death and disease in years to ceme. He emphasizes the mesothelicca hazard and the fact no known dose level is "safe" and is pointing to the possible health significance of shorter, smaller fibers or particles not now covered by standards. 5elikoff people have been actively promoting hazards associated with asbestos emissions frem brake lining wear and frem brakeserVice operations. Acknowledgment of association b~tween asbed~os ~o~ur~ ~ increased GI cancer has become accepted practice during.the pa~ year. T~e above and other activities and publicity during recent months offers ample evidence that controversy and concern over asbestos has in no wa::! slackened. Ma.IJy seem to think the fact that OSHA, EPA, NIOSH and others rece~ have beeD devoting considerable attention to other toxic materials has taken some of the heat orf asbestos. While this mas- be true as far as the over-all envircmmental and occupational health picture is concerned, I see no significan~ ~ange in the attitude of regulatory agencies, ~edical researchers, labor, or enviroDm~~ groups in regard to the hazards of asbestos. Nor do I see eIr3 justification for such change.' T~e friction materials ~dustry should pursue all available ~Aans ror'achieving cO!Il~lia."w'i1tche the 2 fiber per cubic millileter standard and a1.l other re~uixements of the OSHA asbestos'reguiations as promptly as possible. It should be kept Ln ::lind tne promulgated regulations are a ".:ninimumst.andard.IT Wherever possible ~Jre protection than that afforded by the standard should be provided for :riction =~~eria~s ~orkers exposed to asbestos dust. q;:asis should be given to worker instruction and training i::l methods for r educLTlgtir":lornedust generation and for minimizing exposure to dust that is generated. ?:-oductlabeling and other means should be employed to thorougbly inform:':: c~sto~ers ~~d the public of the dangers associated with improper use, fabr2ction, ~andlir~ or disposal of asbestos-containing friction ~ateria~s. In-plant a-~tis~cL~ c~c.paigns~ould be laudable. Yo~ ~:==':'-:teseolicits ccmnerrts and questions concerning ::..:.;s:as"a:n.d fut".re act ; -r: :ies, and rill endeavor t o follow events in :he above =="'""11.ioanreedas and <:':o1t~e~ asp:cts of the asbes:os/health con1.roversy during ~e following year. ?espectfullY submitted,