Document Gm9JokXnX6RBoZEn96vEYXBqN

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COJRT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF WEST VIRGINIA CHARLESTON, WEST VIRGINIA JAMES M, ADKINS, A d m i n i s t r a t o r o f the E s ta te o f R alph E . A dkins, D eceased, e t a l, P la in tiffs, vs. aMONSANTO COMPANY, D e la w a re C orporation, D efendant, ) ) > ) ) ) ) No. ) ) ) ) ) 81-2098 D eposition o f LEE A. MILLER taken, on b e h a lf o f th e P la in tiffs. *************** e R e p o r t e r : M. J o y S p r i n g e r J am es M ay R epo r tin g S erv ice CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS R.R. 2 - SOX 65 EDWARDSVILLE. ILLINOIS 62025 . j s # 1821 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 . / 18 o 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF WEST VIRGINIA CHARLESTON, WEST VIRGINIA 1 JAMES M. ADKINS, A d m in is tra to r ) of the E sta te of Ralph E. A dkins, ) Deceased, e t a l, ) ) Pla in tl f f s , ) ) vs. ) MONSANTO COMFANY, a D elaware Corpora tto n , ) ) ) ) D efendant. ) No. 81-2098 APPEAPANC2S: M essrs, Calve 11, McCormick & Peyton, by W. S t u a r t C a lw e ll, J r . , and John H. Skaggs, E s q ., Es q ,, M essrs, 3ow les, McDavid, G raff & Love, by P. M ichael P lesk a , E sq ., and John Woods, Esq. For P la in tif fs , For Defendant. ii i i 1 i 1 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED by and between 1 counsel fo r the p la in tif f s and counsel fo r the defendant t h a t th e d e p o s itio n o f LEE A. MILLER may be tak en pursuant* to Rule 26(a) of the F ed eral Rules of C iv il P rocedure, on J u ly 18, 1983, a t the R ad isso n H o te l, Room 215, 9th! S tre e t and Convention P laza, S t. L ouis, M issouri, b ef te i J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E RV I C E V 1 * . V' i" ) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 M. JOY SPRINGER, a N o tary P u b lic w ith in and f o r the County of M adison, S ta te of I l l i n o i s ; th a t the issuance of n o tic e and dedimus Is w aived, and th a t th is d ep o sitio n may be ta k e n w ith th e same f o rc e and e f f e c t as i f a l l F ederal ru le s and s ta tu to ry requirem ents had been complied w ith. IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED Chat any and a l l objections to a l l or any p a rt of th is d ep o sitio n , except o b je c tio n s as to form of the q u estio n s asked or answ ers g iv e n , a r e h ereb y re s e rv e d and may be r a is e d on the t r i a l of th is cause; and th a t the sig n atu re of the deponent Is n o t waived. LEE A. MILLER p ro d u ced , sworn and examined on b e h a lf o f th e p l a i n t i f f s , deposes and says as follow s: EXAMINATION , BY MR. CALWELL: (Whereupon th e r e p o r te r marked P la in - t i f f s 1 D ep o sitio n E x h ib it #355 (Monsanto .#236180 and #236181) c o n s is tin g of 2 pages; J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 2  y f l 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q What is your p o s itio n th e re ? A I rm a G eneral Manager of the N u tritio n a l Chemicals D iv isio n . Q Would you t e l l us w hat your e d u c a tio n i s . A I g o t my B a c h e lo r' s in C h em istry from Augustana C ollege in Rock I s la n d , 111 in ois . I have a Ph. D. in O rganic C h em istry from the U n iv e r s ity o f I l l i n o i s . Q When d id you g e t your Ph, D? A 1955. Q And a f t e r g e t t i n g t h a t d id you go to work? A I jo in e d Monsanto d ir e c tly out of s c h o o l, and I have been w ith them 28 y e a rs now. S ta r te d in re s e a rc h , worked in to th e b u sin e ss end of the co rp o - ra t io n . Q You say you s t a r t e d in r e s e a r c h in 1955? A Yes. Q What was your jo b then? A I was r e s e a r c h c h e m ist in D ayton, Ohio, in the then C e n tra l R esearch L a b o ra to rie s. tion? Q Is t h a t now M onsanto R e sea rc h C o rp o ra- * A Yes, i t is . -Q And how lo n g were you in t h a t p o s itio n ? JAMES MAYRFPORTINfi FOUU-C - 1% _^ A i *' v. . 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A For six y e a rs. During 1961, I had a few p ro m o tio n s, b u t I d i d n 't r e a l l y re a c h a management le v e l from the R and D a re a . Q And were you d o in g la b o r a to r y t e s t s , is th a t what you were doing? A R eally lab o rato ry research . A ttem ptin g to d ev elo p new p ro d u c ts t h a t m ight be u s e f u l to the c o rp o ra tio n . . Q During your s t i n t th e re in Dayton did you work w ith any c h lo ro p h e n o ls ? A Yes. I worked w ith both 2 ,4 - d ichlorophenol and 2 ,4 ,5 -tric h lo ro p h e n o l along w ith p en tac h lo ro p h e n o l. These p ro d u c ts were used in h e lp in g new compounds th a t m ight have p o te n tia l h e rb ic id e a c t i v i t y . Q So you worked w ith d ic h lo r o p h e n o l, pentachlorophenol and trich o lo rp h en o l? A T richolorphenol. Q Did you do any work in c o n n e c tio n w ith a p ro d u c t th a t was .m anufactured a t th e N itro P la n t c a lle d 2 ,4 ,5 -T ? A No. Q Was your work w ith tr lc h l o r o p h e n o l in any way r e l a t e d to 2 ,4 ,5 -T ? A Only in th e sense th a t p a r t i c u l a r m oiety was in c lu d e d in 2 ,4 ,5 - T , b u t o th e r th an t h a t i t J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G q c o u i r c - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 | 18 1 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 was q u ite se p a ra te . Q Old you r e l y on what M onsanto knew about the production of 2,4,5-T and the use of tric h lo ro phenol in th a t process in the work th a t you were doing w ith trichlorophenol? A No, no. Q uite d i f f e r e n t c h e m istry . Q 3ut you d id n * t r e f e r to any m a te r ia ls t h a t the comoany may have had r e l a t e d to t h a t p ro c e ss? A No. I c o n s u lte d o n ly the p u b lis h e d l i t e r a t u r e t h a t was a v a ila b le d u rin g t h a t tim e. Q During th is s ix -y e a r perio d were you g e n e ra lly aware of a fam ily of su b sta n c e s c a lle d dioxins ? A Not r e a l l y . T hat was b efo re they b ecame w e ll known. Q :'J e li, were th ey known .then? A To my know ledge, th ey were n o t. Q And t h i s would have been in the 1955 to '61 period? A '55 co *61. Q To your kncxv le d g e , d u rin g your work w ith dichlorophenol, pentachlorophenol and tric h lo ro phenol, you did n o t co n sid er a d io x in in the work th a t you were doing th e re , is th a t r ig h t? *A No. T h a t's c o r r e c t . IAL.CTC? . . . w _____________________________ ' " * 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 . 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 > Q Now, a f t e r 1961 w hat d id you do? A In 161 I came to S t. L ouis as a P ro je c t Manager in the Commercial Development D epartm ent of th e O rganic Chenfcals D iv isio n of M onsanto, and I h eld th a t jo b u n t i l May of T65 when I became a S e c tio n Manager in t h a t same d ep a rtm e n t. Q Now, what d id your jo b e n t a i l ? I s t h a t th e same su b sta n c e s or was th a t' a d i f f e r e n t a r e a a l l together? A No. T his was a b u s in e s s o r ie n te d o p eratio n th a t d id n f t involve la b o ra to ry work a t a l l , an d from t h a t d a te fo rw ard , from the *51 d a te fo rw a rd , I have not been involved in lab o rato ry ex p erim en tatio n . Q So *61 was th e l a s t tim e t h a t you w ere down in th e la b s , r ig h t? A R ight. Q What d id you do in t h i s new p o s i t i o n , '61 to '65? A What we were tr y in g to do is b r in g on a m ajor new food in g r e d ie n t s e c tio n f o r M onsanto, and I was in charge of in tro d u c in g th e food I n g r e d ie n ts , among theca b ein g fu m aric a c i d , c o ld w a te r s o lu b le fu m a ric a c id , and ad ip ic acid . Q together? i This was an e n t i r e l y d i f f r e n t a r e a a l l J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E J "T ' 1 A I stayed w ith th a t job u n til February 2 o f 1968, and a t t h a t tim e I tr a n s f e r r e d to New York C ity 3 t o s e rv e a s th e p r e s id e n t of a new Monsanto a c q u i s i t i o n , 4 M onsanto F la v o r E ssence Company, w hich was a company 5 involved in fla v o r and frag ran ce in g re d ie n ts. 6 Q And t h a t s u r e ly had n o th in g to do 7 w ith the fla v o r of 2,4,5-T and trich lo ro p h en o l? 8 A Righu. 9 Q And, a g a in , th a t sounds lik e a b u sin ess 10 o r ie n te d k in d o f job? 11 A Very much so . 12 Q And how Long were you in New York? ^ 13 A I was in New York th ro u g h J u ly of 14 '7 4 . Came back to S t. Louis a s th e D ir e c to r of R e s u lts 15 Management o f M onsanto. T his is w hat I 'd d e s c r ib e a s 16 a p e rs o n n e l o r ie n te d f u n c tio n . 17 Q Now, in t h a t f u n c tio n d id you w ork vrfth 18 Mr. H arb iso n ? 19 A Yes. Mr. H arb iso n was th e le a d e r 20 a t t h a t tim e o f t h a t r e s u l t s management f u n c tio n . 21 Q And was t h a t th e b r a in c h ild o f John 22 H anley? 23 A Y es. 24 Q And was H anley P r e s i d e n t a t t h a t tim e? 25 -A Yes. I th in k he may have been P r e s i d e n t ,. . . .. T' t 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 U 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and Chairman a t t h a t tim e . I f d n eed to c o n s u lt some n o te s on t h a t , b u t it* s r e a d i l y a v a i l a b l e . Q Is th a t a corporate s ta ff position th a t you went to? A Yes. I t was in e f f e c t an o p eratin g company s t a f f p o s itio n . I worked f o r Monsanto I n d u s tr ia l Chem icals, one of fiv e o p e ra tin g u n its a t th a t tim e. q And H arb iso n was n o t a s s ig n e d to an o p e r a tin g d i v i s i o n l i k e MIC? He was up in th e company level s ta ff, is th at rig h t? A That*s c o rre c t. Q Were you a n o tch below him in term s o f -A Y es. He worked f o r th e D ir e c to r o f p e rs o n n e l a t t h a t tim e , Bob V ara (p h o n e tic ^ and I r e p o r te d t o a Managing D ire c to r, H arold B ie b e l, Q So you were charged w ith im plem enting th i s Management By R e s u lts Program in MIC, I suppose? A C orrect. Q And H arb iso n was ch arg ed w ith imp lem en tin g Management By R e s u lts in a l l th e com panies? A C orrect. Q O.K. How long w ere you in t h a t .s lo t? A I was in t h a t s l o t u n t i l November 1 s t of 1975. At th a t time I became G eneral Manager of the P ro cess C hem icals D iv is io n in MIC. iA .. . t. ... ...... 1 Q Now, when you became a s s o c ia te d w ith 2 MIC, I g u e ss, in 1974, th e N itr o P la n t was in th a t 3 operating division? 4 A Yes. A c tu a lly , the Organic D ivision 5 became a p a r t o f MIC when i t was formed in 1971, so in 6 t h a t sense I was a s s o c ia te d th ro u g h o u t t h a t p e rio d w ith 7 MIC. 8 Q A l l r i g h t . Now, when you became 9 a s D c ia te d w ith MIC, were you made aw are a t any tim e 10 of a problem t h a t N itr o had w ith a c h lo ra c n e r e l a t e d n to the 2 ,4 ,5 -T process? 12 A Not a t t h i s tim e . In November o f 1976 13 I became G eneral ifenager of th e S p e c i a lt y Chem icals 14 D iv is io n , and my r e c o l l e c t i o n i s t h a t I became aware 15 o f th i s concern a b o u t d io x in somewhere in th e fo llo w in g 16 S p rin g , th e S p rin g o f '7 7 . 17 Q T h a t's th e f i r s t tim e you r e a l l y run 18 a c ro s s t h i s su b sta n c e ? 19 A The f i r s t tim e I ran a c r o s s i t in 20 th e M onsanto c o n te x t. Now, th e S eveso in c id e n t was 21 p ro b a b ly around 1975 a n d , o f c o u r s e , t h a t was w id e ly 22 r e p o r te d in th e p u b lic and t e c h n i c a l p r e s s ; so I was 23 c e r t a i n l y aw are o f i t a t t h a t tim e , b u t, a s I r e c a l l , 24 t h a t was my f i r s t aw a re n ess o f th e d io x in is s u e . 25 Q When you became a G en e ra l Manager o f JA M E S MAY B F o n o T i N i ; c f b w i c c  1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 l 17 t . 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 S p e c ia lty C hem icals D iv is io n , is t h a t s t i l l p a r t o f MIC? *` A I t 's gone through se v e ra l transform a- tio n s sin ce and no longer is a d iv is io n th a t d ir e c tly corresponds to th a t o p e ra tio n , but one of the re sp o n si- b i l i t i e s was th e N itr o P la n t. Q In *76? A In '7 6 , rig h t. Q And was t h a t b ecau se w h ate v er su b - stances the sp e c ia l chem icals were were a ls o m anufactured there a t N itro? A B a s ic a lly i t was because S p e c ia lty Chemicals had the bulk of the p la n ts th e re a t N itro P la n t e x c e p t f o r th e p h o sp h ate p l a n t s , so we d i d n 't have t h a t many more ch e m ic als a t N itr o b u t we had th e resp o n sib ility for th at plant. Q How long d id your jo b a s G en eral Manager of S p e c ia lty Chem icals D ivison la s t? A Through th e end of th e year 1969. Q What happened then? A I became G eneral Manager of N u tritio n s 1 Chemicals as of January 1, 1980. Q You s t i l l have an a s s o c i a t i o n w ith th e N itr o P la n t in *79? A Through 1979 I d id h av e, y es. - Q Was t h a t in c o n n e c tio n w ith your IAUCC L.A V n r n / ^ n T ik i/ ' er-r>w>i- . 1 G eneral M anagership of the N u tritio n a l Chemicals - - i 2 A S p e c ia lty Chemicals ended in *79. 3 Q Then you w ent on to G en eral Manager 4 of N u tritio n a l Chemicals, and th a t had nothing to do - 5 A Only i n d i r e c t l y . Two ox our p ro d u c ts 6 a r e made a t N itr o . 7 Q what are those? 8 A P ro d u c t c a lle d MHA, w hich is an 9 acronym fo r m ethionine hydroxy-analog. T h a t's a syn10 t h e t i c amino a c id used in an im al f e e d s , p o u ltr y f e e d . 11 The second p ro d u c t c a lle d S a n to q u in , S - a - n - t - o - q - u - i - n , 12 Monsanto tr a d e name fo r a n t i e x i d a n t a l s o used to p r e i 13 ~rvs fe e d t u f f s . 14 0 Does the fa n to q u in p ro c e s s in v o lv e 15 the c h l o r i n a t i o n of a benzene rin g ? 16 A No. N e ith e r o f th o se p ro c e s s e s do. 17 A raw m a te r ia l f o r S an to q u in is a p ro d u c t c a l l e d p a r a 18 n itro b e n z e n e go in g bach a l l th e way t o th e b e g in n in g . 19 T hat in tu r n comes from c h lo ro b e n z e n e . So in t h a t s e n se 20 i t d o es, b u t i t r s a b o u t f i v e or s i x s te p s b e fo re we g e t 21 down to our p a r t o f th e p r o c e s s . 22 Q Does t h a t e n t i r e p ro c e s s ta k e p la c e 23 a t N itro ? 24 A No. i t ta k e s p l a c e , i t s t a r t s l i f e 25 a t Krummrich, t h a t 's our e a s t s id e p l a n t , goes to Queeny J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 1 f o r a p ro c e s s, back to Krummrich and then to N itro a g a in , 2 so i t 's e s s e n tia lly a four-departm ent operation. 3 Q So th e c h lo r in a te d p a r t o f t h a t p ro c e ss 4 ta k e s p la c e some p lace o th e r th an N itro ? 5 A At Krummrich, Q A ll r i g h t . When you had ysur jo b s 7 w ith MIC, d id you have d i r e c t lin e com m unication to th e 8 M ed ical D epartm ent, was t h a t p a r t o f y>ur fu n c tio n ? 9 A On an a s - r e q u ir e d b a s i s . No d i r e c t 10 lin e s in the r e p o r tin g s e n s e . U Q Your name a p p e a rs on some docum ents 12 t h a t r e l a t e to a th in g c a lle d the N itr o Task F o rce o r 13 N itr o H e a lth S tudy Task F o rc e . Do you r e c a l l th a t? 14 A Yes. The Chairman o f a h a t Task F o rc e , 15 I th in k , was F red H o lc a p fe l, who was my D ir e c to r o f T M a n u fa ctu rin g r e p o r tin g to me. 17 Q A ll r i g h t . ' Why were you on t h a t 18 Ad Hoc Committee o r t h a t Task F orce? 19 A My r e c o l l e c t i o n , I was n o t on th e 20 T ask F o rce b u t r a t h e r H o lz a p fe l, w ho's my im m ediate s u b 21 o r d in a te ,- c h a ir e d i t and assem b led th e a p p r o p r ia te group 22 of people to run th a t o p e ra tio n , 23 Q And you w ere m erely c o p ie d w ith th e 24 p aper t h a t was g e n e ra te d ? 25 A Yes. J A M E S MAY R F P f i R T l N r . R P R U i r r Q Did you have any d i r e c t involvem ent w ith the N itro H ealth Study Task Force? A I fd say in d ire c t involvement ra th e r th an d i r e c t . I c e r t a i n l y was s u p p o rtiv e o f the Task F o rc e , was aw are o f what was going on b u t d id n ' t p a r t i c i p a t e in the ro u tin e m eetings. Q Mr. H arb iso n r e f e r r e d to th e N itr o Task Force and the N itro problem as a m a te ria l problem and s a id th a t in keeping w ith the Monsanto irfanagement by Rewards Program th a t th a t m a te ria l problem would have stopped s h o rt of him ex cep t in an in fo rm a tio n a l sen se w ith you. A Uh huh (y e s ), VJould th a t be tru e ? A I think ch at's a f a ir d escrip tio n , y e s . I was c e r t a i n l y a p p r is e d o f th e m ajor th in g s t h a t w ere going on b u t n o t d a y - in , d a y -o u t. Q In keeping w ith theManagement by Rewards system ,th e n , were you kind o f the --d id you have th e sa y o v er t h i s Mr. K o lz a p fe i who was c h a ir in g th e th in g ? A He re p o rte d to me and o b v io u sly had a g reat deal of influence, surely, Q In t h a t se n se d id you have some r e s p o n s ib ility fo r th a t N itro Task Force? A Yes. 1 Q And in k eep in g w ith t h a t p a r t o f your _ / 2 j o b , d id y o u have to bee one f a m i l i a r w ith th e h i s t o r y 3 of the N itro problem and a l l th at? 4 A In an overview way, yes. 5 Q You d id n 11 u n d e rta k e an y in d iv id u a l 6 or sp ecific in v estig atio n of that? 7 A No, n o t p e rs o n a lly . 8 Q And a t th e end o f 1979 you moved on 9 to some o th e r u n i t , some o th e r job? 10 A Yes. 11 Q Did your a s s o c i a t i o n w ith th e N itr o 12 problem end a t th a t p o in t in time? -- / 13 A Yes. 14 Q And s in c e t h a t tim e have you had an y 15 in v o lv e m e n t in th e ongoing h e a l t h s tu d i e s ? 16 A None a t a l l . 17 i 18 Q You j u s t l e f t t h a t in th e d u s t, r i g h t ? A Moved on. ' 19 Q When you w ere a t l e a s t in name re s p o n - 20 s ib le fo r the N itro Task F orce, did you have occasion, to 21 become f a m ilh r w ith an y work done by Mr. U d e ll in th e 22 an aly sis of substances for dioxin or anything lik e that? 23 A No. 24 Q Didn* t review an y s tu d ie s t h a t M onsanto 25 had made in y e a rs p a s t t h a t in v o lv e d t e s t i n g o f v a r io u s J A M E S MAV R F P n H T i w r . c c o w i r - c J3F-- . i ' I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 p ro d u cts'fo r dioxin? A X was aw are a t th e time o f th a t 1949 in c id e n t a P ro fe s s o r S uskind was c a lle d in and d id a n e a r-te rm stu d y which was viewed a s jo u rn e y p o s it iv e , and I was a p a r t o f th e d e c is io n to a g re e to have him come back in a g a in . T his w ould have been back in a b o u t probably F a ll of *78, I guess, to i n i t i a t e another study. Q A ll r i g h t , s i r . I want to hand you w h at's been marked P lafctiffs* E x h ib it #355 (Monsanto #236180 and #236181), w hich i s a J a n u a ry 24, 1979, Mon- s a n to memo, I th in k , a u th o re d by F red H o lz a p fe l, i s * th at correct? A C orrect. list? Q And y o u 're shown on th e d i s t r i b u t i o n A R ig h t. A c tu a lly , I 'm shown on a d ire c t copy b a sis. not? Q You have r e a d t h a t docum ent, have you A Yes. Q And th e re i s no re a s o n to b e lie v e you d id n 't get i t , rig h t? A No. Q In about the second or th ird paragraph r e f e r e n c e i s made to th e 2 , 4 , 5-T p ro c e s s a s d e s c r ib e d JAMES MAVDCDnnnii/- err,...-- 1 by Mr. H o lz a p fe l a s , "O urs was a d i r t y p r o c e s s ." Do 2 you know w hat t h a t means? 3 A My i n t e r p r e t a t i o n o f t h a t would mean 4 th e r e were numerous b y p ro d u c ts . T here w a s n 't 100% y ie ld 5 2 .4 .5 - T. 6 Q Would t h a t in c lu d e d io x in ? 7 A In re tro s p e c t, yes. 8 Q So is " d i r t y 11 in t h a t c o n te x t maybe 9 a term of a r t , perhaps, in the chem ical in d u stry ? 10 A I th in k so . A d e s c r i p t i v e th in g . 11 You c a l l a c le a n p ro cess so m eth in g t h a t w ould g iv e a 12 v e ry h ig h y ie ld o f the p ro d u c t y o u 'r e a f t e r . D ir ty 13 p ro c e ss i s one t h a t g iv es an a r r a y o f m a te r ia l and you 14 ^ l e c t o u t th e m a te r ia l . 15 Q I th in k t h a t same p a ra g ra p h o f t h a t 16 e x h i b i t H o lz a p fe l o b s e rv e s , "We w ere p la g u ed w ith c h l o r 17 acne p ro b lem s." Did you know w hat he was t a l k i n g a b o u t 18 th e re when you re a d th a t? 19 i A I c e r t a i n l y u n d e rs ta n d th e s e n te n c e . 20 I d i d n 't have an y p e r s o n a l ex p o su re t o t h a t . My r e c o l 21 l e c t i o n i s we were in th e p ro c e s s o f g o in g o u t o f t h a t 22 2 . 4 . 5 - T b u s in e s s somewhere a lo n g a b o u t 1973, so ray 23 p e rs o n a l e x p e rie n c e d u rin g t h a t tim e was a p r e t t y m inim al 24 o v e rla p . 25 -Q You d i d n 't nnke a n y in q u ir y y o u r s e lf l i M T C U A V D r O f t O T i n i - r~ - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 U 15 16 17 1 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 about th is ch lo racn e problem? ' A No, X d id n o t. Q Fa i r to sa y you J u s t a c c e p te d H olz- a p fe l's observation as true? A R ight. Q X want to hand you w h a t's been marked E x h ib it #356 (Monsanto #8322238, #8322244 and #8322245), w hich looks lik e a memorandum on M onsanto l e t t e r h e a d dated F ebruary 5, 1979, au th o re d by Lee A. M ille r , and i t e n c lo s e s a tw o-page memorandum o f s o r t s . Ask you to take a look a t th a t. A 0. K. Q Dr. M i l l e r , th e tw o-page memorandum a tta c h e d to the l a t t e r , t h a t was w r i t t e n b y y )u , th e l e t t e r ? A The l e t t e r was w r i t t e n by me, and my r e c o l le c tio n was th e tw o-page a tta c h m e n t was som ething > I c o lla b o r a te d on w ith H o lz a p fe l. Q How d id you d e te rm in e in 1957 t h a t th e causative agent fo r chloracne m s id e n tifie d as being a dioxin? A X c a n 't respond d ire c tly to th a t. To my kncxiledge, t h a t was a r e t r o a c t i v e c o n c lu s io n ,, b u t th a t m ight be in e r r o r . I 'r a n o t aware o f th a t. Q Would a tim e l i n e be a f a i r way to d escrib e th a t two-page document? 1 A Yes, i t w as. 2 Q What was th e purpose o f d e v e lo p in g th a t? 3 A W ell, he was to tr y to put in to t o t a l 4 c o n te x t th e h i s t o r y o f how we g o t to t h a t then c u r r e n t 5 s itu a tio n which led Suskind to re q u e st an o p p o rtu n ity to come back in and do an a u d i t .jhich le d th e S t e e l 7 workers to request the opportunity to send S e lik o ff or 8 h is team in to do an a u d it. 9 Q And in fo rm a tio n c o n ta in e d in t h a t tim e 10 l i n e , a s f a r as you know, was f a i r l y a c c u r a te ? 11 A B est o f our a b i l i t y to p u t it to g e th e r 12 a t t h a t tim e , y e s. 13 Q L et oe hand you w h a t's been marked 14 E x h ib it v357 (Monsanto *8322313). 15 A O.K. 16 . Q Would yxi b r i e f l y d e s c r ib e t h a t f o r th e 17 r e c o r d , p le a s e . 18 A T his is a l e t t e r from F re d H o lz a p fe l 19 to ms a s o f Iferch 21, 1979, b a s i c a l l y h i g h l i g h t i n g th e 20 need fo r. b e t t e r com m unication to our em ployees in term s 21 o f our o v e r a l l s a f e t y program s, p a r t i c u l a r l y a s th e y 22 r e l a t e to c h e m ic a l e x p o s u re s . 23 Q You know i f any a c t i o n was ta k e n 24 a f t e r th e s u g g e s tio n th e r e in *57 a b o u t im proving th e 25 com m unication a b o u t h e a l t h and s a f e ty ? J A M E S MAY R F P n o T tK ir. BCO/t/*c Il 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 n 12 13 14 15 16 17 1 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A I r e a lly c a n 't r e c a ll. I would assume t h a t I t was. Q I'm going to hand you #358 (Monsanto #233577 an d #233578). As you re a d i t , y o u 'l l n o tic e i t makes r e f e r e n c e to some k in d o f c o n f r o n ta tio n c o u rs e . I see th a t in a number of documents. I'm j u s t c u rio u s , d id you take the c o n fro n ta tio n course? A No, I d id n o t. This co u rse was b a s ic a l l y a course designed to help the P la n t Manager and th e s t a f f perform more e f f e c t i v e l y in c o n f r o n ta tio n a l s i t u a t i o n s , su ch a s being in te rv ie w e d by th e c r o s s , so on and so fo rth . ^ I s t h a t som ething new t h a t M onsanto is undertaking? A I th in k th is was p ro b ab ly the second one o f i t s k in d . The f i r s t f o r th e N itr o r i a n t . Q Would you j u s t b r i e f l y 'e s c r ib e t h a t fo r the record. A T his i s a nemo from Jim McKee, who a t th e tim e was D ire c to r o f P u b lic R e la tio n s in M onsanto, to Joe N olan and M ontie T hro d ah l. Nolan was th e head of a l l public re la tio n s , public a ffa irs . T hrodahl,. of co u rse , is th e key S enior Vice P re sid e n t in ch arg e o f the environm ental sa fe ty issu e. Q O.K. I'm going to hand you w h a t's JA M E S MAY R C D O D Tiw r; c c b w i/ 'c I been marked P l a i n t i f f s 1 E x h ib it #359 (Monsanto #8322875), 2 and s p e c ific a lly d ire c t your a tte n tio n to the second 3 paragraph on th a t l e t t e r which appears to have been 4 w r i t t e n by you, Lee A. M il le r , d ated i^ y 10, 1979. 5 W hile you' r e lo o k in g a t t h a t , l e t me go ahead and hand 6 you E x h ib it #360 (Monsanto #8322918), and ask you to 7 look a t the f i r s t paragraph of th a t. That e x h ib it is 8 a l e t t e r from Mpntie Throdahl addressed to you, dated 9 June 1, 1979. 10 A O.K. 11 Q In E x h ib it #359 in the second p a r a 12 g rap h you make m ention o f some r i s k y s i t u a t i o n and 13 th en in th e f i r s t p arag rap h o f 360, I b e l i e v e , you t a l k 14 a b o u t the many i n t e r r e l a t e d and d i f f i c u l t s i t u a t i o n s 15 a t th e N itr o P l a n t . New, what a re you ta lk in g a b o u t th e re ? 16 A T h e re ' s twod i f f e r e n t peoplew r i t i n g 17 th o s e l e t t e r s . I w ro te 359 ar.d Mon t i e T h ro d ah l w ro te 18 360. I can sp eak f o r my l e t t e r . 19 Q O.K. 20 A And my. c o n c e rn , asI in d ic a te d in 21 th e l e t t e r , was th e tim in g on the E e lik o f f and S u sk in d 22 s t u d i e s . -My r e c o l l e c t i o n .is th e y were b o th com m issioned 23 a lm o s t s im u lta n e o u s ly in th e F a l l o f 1978, an d y e t , 24 S e l i k o f f g o t o f f th e ground much more q u ic k ly th a n 25 S u sk in d d id . My l e t t e r is e x p re s s in g some co n c ern a b o u t JAM Fq MAY BtrPAO Tiw r: c rD \/i/-r ' y * 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 i3 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 o u r i n a b i l i t y to g e t Dr. S u sk in d on th e move to do the study and the concern th a t c le a rly i f the S elik o ff data sh o u ld be n e g a tiv e and sh o u ld come o u t p r io r to S uskind b e g in n in g h is w ork, we would have been v e ry v u ln e ra b le indeed. T hrodahl's l e t t e r , I'm n o t sure e x a c tly what h e 's ta lk in g a b o u t. I s u s p e c t he m ight be ta lk in g n o t o n ly a b o u t th e d io x in is s u e b u t p o s s ib ly th e o ld PAB problem t h a t goes back many y e a rs . Q So in th e one you w ro te , you j u s t w anted to be s u re we g o t S u sk in d o u t th e r e f i r s t , r i g h t ? A R ig h t. I w anted to be a b le to say in the S e lik o ff d a ta , i f i t appeared, I wanted to a t l e a s t be a b le to sa y we had S u sk in d underway and n o t make i t lo o k a s i f we were d o in g a r e a c t i v e th in g . Q L e t me hand you w h a t' s been marked P l a i n t i f f s ' E x h ib it *361 (Monsanto #8323075 th ro u g h -#8323079), and i t ' s a l e t t e r from W illiam J . M cC arville on Monsanto le tte r h e a d , dated June 25, 1979, to Montie T h ro d ah l an d y o u 'r e shown a s a copyee on t h i s o ne, and i t a l s o e n c lo s e s a memorandum o f some fo u r p ag es. Why d o n 't you g la n c e th ro u g h i t . The th in g I 'm i n t e r e s t e d in is on th e f i r s t page o f th e a tta c h m e n t un d er M ajor Issu es th e re a re four major issu es id e n tifie d th e re , so take a look through th a t. A O.K. J J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E M* Q Down In th e f o u r m ajor i s s u e s , would you read those to th e ju ry . A F i r s t i s s u e , !,I s th e N itr o P la n t a s a f e p la c e ? " Number two, "A re a l le g e d h e a l t h e f f e c t s from tr ic h lo r o p h e n o l, 2 ,4 ,5 - T an d PAB d i f f e r e n t from e a r l ie r fin d in g s?" T hird i s , "Are a lle g a tio n s from employees and o th e rs about e a r l ie r , s e c re tiv e dumpings/ d is p o s a l o f contam inanted tr ic h lo ro p h e n o l on N itro property valid? I f so, is th a t of m aterial concern today?" Four, " Is th ere a co n tin u in g exposure of s ig n ific a n c e to d ioxins or o th e r compounds in th e N itro P lan t today? In the community today?" Q During the time th a t you were a sso c ia te d w ith th is Task Force and, I guess, u n til the end of f i s c a l - - or was th a t y ear end? A Year end, 1979. Q Do you know i f th o se is s u e s were answered? A I d o n 't r e c a ll they were answered q u ite as d e f in itiv e ly as th is would su g g est they were going to be, b u t I would say the im pression I l e f t the d iv is io n w ith in *79 was t h a t th e is s u e was p r i m arily an h i s t o r i c a l one and th a t th e Suskind stu d y appeared to be very prom ising, a lth o u g h , a t th a t time we d i d n 't have th e f i n a l d a t a . 1 Q A side from the Suskind s tu d ie s , was 2 th e r e a n y th in g e l s e , you r e l i e d on to make th e c o n c lu s io n s 3 th a t you j u s t did? 4 A X guess in p a rt, H o lzap fel's opinion, 5 the opinion of our m edical p eo p le, in c lu d in g Dr. Roush, 6 who is much more know ledgeable abcxit th e d a ta th a n we 7 had ourselves and th a t Suskind had been g ath e rin g . 8 Q Now, Mr. H arb iso n s a id i f th e r e w ere 9 two people he c o u ld go to to f in d o u t an sw ers about-, t h i s 10 s i t u a t i o n , i t would be you an d Dr. Roush. Are you sa y 11 ing t h a t Roush is the guy t h a t r e a l l y had th e h a n d le on 12 t h is ? 13 A I would sa y he c o u ld g iv e you more 14 d e t a i l e d in fo rm a tio n th an I c o u ld , b u t I would c e r t a i n l y 15 sa y a t th e end o f *79 my q u a l i t a t i v e judgm ent sras p o s i 16 t i v e in a l l th e fo u r p o in ts . 17 Q And t h a t was p r i m a r i l y b ased on your 18 c o n v e rs a tio n s w ith Roush, H o lz a p fe l a n a some knowledge t h a t 19 you had a b o u t S u sk in d 1s work? 20 A The p r e lim in a r y p e r s p e c tiv e w ork from 21 S u sk in d 1s w ork. 22 it i)id you s e e a n y w r i t t e n r e p o r t s o r 23 in fo rm a tio n from S uskind? 24 A No, T h at was one o f o u r g r e a t f r u s 25 t r a t i o n s . We w ere p u sh in g v e ry h a rd f o r th e S u sk in d d a t a . 1A U C C U AV n I-- I don' t have any o cc asio n to se e i t to d a y , so i t may have we 11 been iss u e d .. Q Do you know how i t i s t h a t you had iriorination th a t Suskind* s work was v e ry prom ising? A I t came back th ro u g h the M ed ical Departm ent, c e r ta in ly Roush h im s e lf, Throdahl and* I b e lie v e , George L ev in sk as who worked f o r Roush, were a l l making c o n ta c ts w ith S uskind on an in fo rm al b a s is . Q Was t h i s so m eth in g t h a t he j u s t would have to ld you? A Yes. We had been t a l k i n g a b o u t, ''When's the S uskind stu d y g o in g to be p u b lis h e d , w r i t t e n up? W ell, we d o n 't have any h a rd d a ta y e t b u t h is g en eral fe e lin g is i t looks p ro m isin g ." I t would be th a t kind o f a comment. Q I want to hand you w h a t's been marked E x h ib it #362 (Monsanto #8323203 through #8323205), and i t ' s a memo from F red H o lz a p fe l d a te d J u ly 9, 1S79, and y o u 're shown a s having been p r e s e n t a t a m eeting t h a t th e memo r e c o r d s . What I'm r e a l l y i n t e r e s t e d in i s r e f e r e n c e i s made to a m o r t a l i t y e x p e rie n c e o r s tu d y r e la te d to the 1949 in c id e n t, and I th in k i t ' s in the f i r s t paragraph, but you go ahead and look a t i t . A L et me c o r r e c t one t h i n g . The c o p ie s show a s th o se p r e s e n t p lu s and i t goes down C a r p e n te r , J A M E S MAY R E P O R T tN f i q P R U i r r .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 " i? 20 21 22 23 24 25 M i l l e r , e t c e t e r a . So I w a s n 't a t t h a t m e e tin g b u t I got a copy of th is. Q On t h a t m o r t a l i t y s t u d y , i s t h a t t h e Suskind-Zack m ortality study th a t's referenced there? A I c a n ' t say f o r c e r t a i n on t h a t . I have the im p re ssio n t h a t i t was one t h a t was done in p a r t w i t h i n M onsanto. T h a t may have been Zack a n d p a r t by S u sk in d . I do r e c a l l the r e s u l t s of t h a t s tu d y were encouraging to us a t th a t time. .. Q In your connection w ith th is N itro 'Task F o rce e p i s o d e , a i d you l e a r n how the m o r t a l i t y s t u d y was t o be c o n d u c t e d o r who was t o be i n c l u d e d in i t or anything like that? A Not i n d e t a i l . To my k n o w l e d g e , t h e p lan was to r e s u r r e c t a l l m edical re c o rd s c o v e rin g d e a th s of people th a t were in the N itro population, compare those to deaths in the population a t large and reach conclusions as to rela tiv e risk . Q Who had d i r e c t s u p e r v i s o r y r e s p o n - s i b i l i t y f o r t h a t s t u d y i n s o f a r a s back was c o n n e c te d t o i t , i f you know? A My r e c o L l e c t i o n i s t h a t F e r d Me yer was the person managing t h a t s tu d y w i t h i n th e M edical Department. Q And would he have been u n d e r Roush? JA ME S MAY RFPDBTINCi qFBVirp o- A He w ould have been w orking f o r Roush. Q And was Roush in t h a t p o s itio n on the date of th a t study? A Yes, he was. Q So in term s o f e x a c tl y how the dead p o p u la tio n was d e fin e d , I could probably ask Dr. Roush, rig h t? A I think th a t's rig h t. s q O.K. L et me hand you 363 (Monsanto 3323313 th ro u g h 7*8323320), and i t ' s a n o th e r memo from Fred H olzap fel, and i t ' s dated August 24, 1979,and looks lik e you got a copy of i t . I th in k item number 6 on page 2 th e r e is some r e f e r e n c e made to exam ining some N itr o em ployees who were h ir e d a f t e r 1973. T hat*s what I'm p rim arily in te re s te d in . A Uh huh (y e s) . Q Do you know i f t h a t s tu d y was a c t u a l l y done ? A I d o n 't know. Q I f you d o n 't know w h eth er i t was d o n e , you o b v io u s ly d o n 't know the r e s u l t s , r i g h t ? A No. Q " I want to hand you 364 (Monsanto #236245 and 236246), w hich i s a n o th e r memo from F red H o lzap fel, and i t ' s dated October 15, 1979, and, I g u ess, J A M F i MAV B C D nnTiM rt ccn\iiiT - 1 y o u 'r e a copyee on t h a t . What I'm c u rio u s a b o u t, r e f e r - \w ^ 2 en ce i s made in th e second p a ra g ra p h on page 1 to some 3 wipe sam ples and w ater sam ples. Take a look a t th a t. 4 A Uh huh (yes ) . 5 Q With re fe re n c e to the wipe sam ples, 6 a s id e from th e ones r e f e r r e d to t h e r e , do you know i f 7 any o th e r wipe samples were taken a t N itro to t e s t fo r v 8 dioxin? 9 A 1*131 sim p ly n o t t h a t c lo s e to i t . 10 Q I f you were going to a s k somebody n a b o u t t h a t , who would you ask ? 12 A I would th in k I ' d a s k p ro b a b ly Royce o 13 S c o t t , who was th e P la n t Manager a t t h a t tim e , o r 14 George Ross c o u ld g e t the r e c o r d s . He m ight n o t have 15 been p e r s o n a lly in v o lv e d . 16 Q O.K. I w ant to hand you y e t a n o th e r 17 memo from F red H o lz a p fe l d a te d O ctober 29, 1979, on 18 w hich you*re shown a s a co p y ee, and on the t h i r d p ag e, 19 p a ra g ra p h 9 th e r e i s r e f e r e n c e to d io x in c o n te n t o f 20 ch lo racn e c y s ts . This s u b je c t appears s e v e ra l tim es 21 in th e m in u tes o f th e N itr o H e a lth S tu d y Task F o rc e , 22 so ta k e a lo o k a t t h a t an d se e i f you re c o g n iz e th a t23 l i t t l e is s u e , 24 A I do have a vague r e c o l l e c t i o n o f t h a t , 25 Q O.K. Did th e y e v e r g e t aro u n d to d o in g JA M ES MAY R E P O R T I N G F B u r r c th is , te stin g th is for dioxin? **' A I don' t r e a l l y know t h a t , Q You d o n 11 e v e r remember a n y th in g o th e r than th ey were p lan n in g to do i t , rig h t? A Right. See, the problem here is th at t h i s i s now two months b e f o r e y e a r e n d , and i f t h e y had done i t , I p ro b a b ly would n o t have known i t . Q A gain, would Roush be th e guy to ask? A X th in k s o . My o th e r r e c o l l e c t i o n is t h a t the second h a l f o f *79 th e pace o f meeting, o f th e N itr o Task F o rce were slo w in g down a g a i n s t th e p e r c e p tio n we th o u g h t th in g s were coming i n to p la c e reasonably w e ll, th a t i s , the data were not as concerning as we once f e a r e d th e y m ight b e. Q Did you come to u n d e rs ta n d why th e r e was t h i s f e a r t h a t th e d a ta m ight n o t be a s f l a t t e r i n g as you hoped i t would be? A W ell, I th in k the public press a t t h a t tim e on d io x in was more n e g a tiv e than i t i s to d a y , Seyeso in c id e n t and so on. Q X want to hand you 354 (Monsanto #004300 through #004847), ask you i f you've ever seen th at before. A No, I 've never seen th a t. I sim ply h av en ' t se en i t b e f o r e . I t ' s an Ag Company r e p o r t , 1 o b v io u sly , on th e 2 ,4 ,5 -T p ro cess. This is the kind 2 ' o f th in g ^ th a t would n o t n o rm ally f in d i t s way in to 3 p la n t management hands. I t would fin d i t s way to the 4 operating lev el of the p lan t. 5 MR. CALVELL: O .K ., D o cto r. Thanks 6 a lo t. 7 8 9 10 Lee A. M il le r n 12 13 U 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JA M E S MAV F P n o T iN r . ^ F o v r r c Spr*4 STATE OF ILLINOIS ) ) SS. COUNTY OF MADISON ) I , M. JOY SPRINGER, a N o t a r y P u b l i c , duly commissioned and q u a lif ie d In and fo r the County of Madison, State of I l l i n o i s , do hereby c e r t i f y t h a t p u r s u a n t t o n o t i c e came b e f o r e me on t h e 13 t h d a y o f J u l y , 1933, a t t h e Rad i s son H o t e l , Room - 1 5 , 9 t h S t r e e t and C o n v e n t i o n P l a z a , S t . L o u i s , M i s s o u r i , TJC A. MILLER, who was by me d u l y sworn' to t e s t i f y to the tru th and n o th in g but the / tr u th of his knowledge touching and concerning the m a tte r s in c o n tr o v e r s y in t h i s c a s e ; t h a t he was thereunon c a re fu lly examined upon oath, and his e x a m i n a t i o n r e d u c e d t o w r i t i n g u n d e r my s u p e r v i s i o n ; th at the deposition is a true record of the testim ony given bv the w itness; and sig n a tu re of the w itness was n o t waived. I FURTHER CERTIFY t h a t I am n e i t h e r a t t o r n e y n o r c o u n s e l f o r n o r r e l a t e d t o n o r em ployed by and of the n a rtie s to the a c tio n in which t h i s d e p o s i t i o n is ta k e n ; and f u r t h e r , t h a t I am n o t a re la tiv e or employee of any a tto rn e y or counsel employed by the p a rtie s h e re to , or f i n a n c i a l l y in terested in the action. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have h e re u n to s e t my hand a n d a f f ix e d my n o t a r i a l s e a l on t h i s _____ day of Ju ly , 1983. Notary Public w ith in and fo r the County of M adison, S ta te of I l l i n o i s . JA M ES MAY R E P O R T IN G S E R V IC E