Document GKd4Gd6v5eQrgng7wK52Mr6Rv

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEVADA NEVADA POWERCOMPANY ) ) Plaintiff, ) -vs- ) # CV-S-89-555-LDG ,) MONSANTOCOMPANY, et al., ) ) ) Defendants. ) CONTINUATION OF THE DISCOVERY DEPOSITION OF PAUL BENIGNUS On the part of the Plaintiff July 15 & 16, 1993 OJ Concannort & Jaeger General Court Reporters 705 Olive Street, Suite 604 St. Louis, Missouri 63101 (314) 421-1000 WATER PCB-00049478 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEVADA 2 NEVADA POWERCOMPANY, ) 3) Plaintiff, ) 4 -vs- > CV-5-39-555-LDG (LRL) 5 MONSANTOCOMPANY, et al., ) ) ) 6) Defendants. ) 7 8 *** 9 INDEX 10 WITNESS: Page: 11 PAUL BENIGNUS 12 Direct Examination 13 Questions by Mr. Bradley on 7-15-93....................112 Questions by Hr. Bradley on 7-16-93....................199 14 Questions by Mr. Morgan....................................... .... . 27 8 Cross Examination by Mr. Dauer........................................ 279 15 Redirect Examination by Mr. Bradley ............................. 200 16 EXHIBITS 17 Exhibit A............................................ 135, 144, 148, 155, 157, 168, 175, 197, 199, 204, 205, 209 18 Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit 4 81.........................................258 Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit 4 292 ........................................ 247 19 Plaintiff'3 Deposition Exhibit # 336 ......... 244 Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit 4 418 .... ..................... 249 20 Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit 4 424 .................... . . . . 252 Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit 4 431 ........................................ 259 21 Plaintiff'8 Deposition Exhibit 4 865 ................................... .274 Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit 4 867 ........................................ 243 22 Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit 4 872 . ............................. 266 Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit 4 1118....................................211 23 Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit 4 1145............................. 221 Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit 4 1149. . . ........................ 240 24 Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit 4 1158.................................. 233 Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit 4 1159* ............................. 235 25 Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit 4 1163......... 236 - 109 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049479 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 E x a i b I T S (tcontinuing) 2 Plaintiff' s Deposition Exhibit 0 1175.............................. 238 PIaintiff' 8 Deposition Exhibit 0 1177............................. 273 3 Plaintiff' a Deposition Exhibit * 1185.............................. Plaintiff' a Deposition Exhibit 0 1190.............................. 230 246 4 Plaintiff* a Deposition Exhibit 0 1202.............................. 251 Plaintiff' a Deposition Exhibit # 1206.............................. 255 5 Plaintiff1 a Deposition Exhibit 0 1254.............................. 254 Plaintiff 3 Deposition Exhibit * 1335.............................. 250 6 Plaintiff' a Deposition Exhibit t 1377........................... 2 47, 264 Plaintiff' a Deposition Exhibit 0 13 93.............................. 242 7 Plaintiff a Deposition Exhibit 0 1403.............................. 259, 278 Plaintiff' a Deposition Exhibit 0 1404............................. 264 8 PI aintiff s Deposition Exhibit 0 1432.............................. 256 Plaintiff' a Deposition Exhibit 0 1456. ......................... 261 9 Plaintiff a Deposition Exhibit 0 1470. ...... 271, 273 Plaintiff a Deposition Exhibit 0 1470A ......................... 272 10 Plaintiff s Deposition Exhibit 0 1475.............................. 259 Plaintiff a Deposition Exhibit 0 1492 .............................. 270 11 Plaintiff a Deposition Exhibit 0 1515.............................. 263 Plaintiff' a Deposition Exhibit 0 1534............................. 267 12 Plaintiff s Deposition Exhibit 0 1535.............................. Plaintiff a Deposition Exhibit 0 1552.............................. 276 262 13 Plaintiff' s Deposition Exhibit 0 1575.............................. Plaintiff s Deposition Exhibit 0 15 93.............................. 256 264 14 Plaintiff a Deposition Exhibit 0 1616.............................. 216, 279 PI ai ntiff a Deposition Exhibit 0 1617.............................. 253 IS Plaintiff' a Deposition Exhibit 0 1618.............................. 2 45 Plaintiff' a Deposition Exhibit 0 1621.............................. 257 16 Plaintiff* a Deposition Exhibit 0 1623.............................. 268 Plaintiff * a Deposition Exhibit 0 1629. ...... 265 17 Plaintiff a Deposition Exhibit 0 1637............................. 252 Plaintiff a Deposition Exhibit 0 16 41.............................. 232 1 8 Plaintiff a Deposition Exhibit * 16 42.............................. Plaintiff a Deposition Exhibit 0 16 53.............................. 19 PI aintiff a Deposition Exhibit 0 1656.............................. Plaintiff a Deposition Exhibit 0 1664.............................. 253 261 260 275 20 Plaintiff a Deposition Exhibit 0 1670.............................. 269 21 22 23 24 25 - 110 - CONCANHON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049480 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT POR THE DISTRICT OP NEVADA 2 3 NEVADAPOWER COMPANY, ) ) 4 Plaintiff, ) 5 -VS- ) ) 5 CV-S-G9-555-LDG (LRL) 6 MONSANTOCOMPANY, et al., > ) ) 7) Defendants, ) 8 9 CONTINUATION OP THE DISCOVERY DEPOSITION OP WITNESS, 10 to be used in an action pending in the District Court of 11 the United States, for the District of Nevada, wherein 12 NEVADA POWER COMPANY is the Plaintiff, and MONSANTO COM 13 PANY, et al., are the Defendants, pursuant to Notice, under 14 the provisions of Rule 26 of the Rules of Civil Procedure, 15 taken on July 15 & 16, 1993, at Fischer's Restaurant, 2201 16 W. Main, Belleville, Illinois, before Mark D. Concannon, a 17 Notary public Within and for the State of Missouri. 18 APPEARANCES 19 The Plaintiff was represented by Attorney Ralph A. Bradley of the law firm of Jones, Jones, Close & Brown, 20 Chartered, 700 Bank of America Plasa, 300 South Fourth Street, Ste* 700, Las Vegas, Nevada 89101. 21 The Defendant, Monsanto, was represented by Attorney 22 Scott R. Bauer of the law firm of Kirkland & Ellis, 1999 Broadway, Ste. 4000, Denver, Colorado 70202. 23 The Defendant, Westinghouse, was represented by 24 Robert P. Morgan, In-House Counsel, Westinghouse Electric Corporation, Westinghouse Building, Gateway Center, 25 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15222, - Ill - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049481 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 PAUL BENIGNUS, 2 of lawful age, Laving been previously sworn to tell the 3 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, deposes 4 and says on behalf of the Plaintiff, a3 follows: 5 DIRECT EKAMINATION 6 QUESTIONS BY MR. BRADLEY: 7 Q. Mr. Benignus, this is a continuation of the 8 deposition that ve began with you some time ago, and you 9 understand that you are still under oath? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And the same rules willapply, and those rules 12 are that, if I ask a question that you don* t understand, I 13 will expect you to tell me. All right? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. If at any time you want to take a break, you 1G just let us know and we*11 accommodate it. All right? 17 A. All right. 18 Q. Did you read thetranscript of the first por 19 tion of your deposition before coming here today? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And did you review any documents to prepare 22 for today's deposition? 23 A. No. 24 q, Did you speak with any attorneys between the 25 end of your -- the first portion of your deposition and - 112 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049482 COMPUTER aided transcription 1 today's date? 2 A. yes. 3 Q. How many times did you meet with attorneys? 4 A. Once. 5 Q. And when was that? 6 A. Yesterday. 7 Q. was that Mr. Peatherstone you met with? 8 A. NO. 9 Q. Who was that? 10 A. It was John and Scott. 11 Q. John Tatlock? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And Scott Bauer? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Have you been told that you were listed as a IS potential witness in this lawsuit? 17 A. I found that out this morning. 1 8 Q. And did you review a document that indicated 19 those areas that you might testify on if this case goes to 20 trial? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. I am going to cover those with you now. and I 23 am going to try ray best not to repeat questions that I have 24 already asked, and if you think that I am asking something 25 that I previously asked and you answered, let me know. All - 113 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049483 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 tight? 2 A. Right. 3 Q. During the first time we met to have your 4 deposition taken, you spoke about the specifications for 5 the various dielectric fluids, at least in part. Do you 6 recall that? 7 A. Yea. 3 Q. Other than what youhave already testified 9 regarding those specifications, is there other information 10 you have regarding the specifications for the various 11 dielectric fluids manufactured by Monsanto which contain 12 PCB*s, including Inerteen and Pyranol? 13 MR. BAUER: Object to the form. Overbroad. 14 Without a response to a specific question, I don't know how IS you could answer that, but you can if you are able. 16 A. I thought wecoveredeverything. Certainly, 17 everything that there is is published in the booklets that 1 8 we covered, so there is nothing beyond that. 19 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) As I understand it, when 20 Monsanto received an order for dielectric fluids containing 21 PCB* s, the specifications accompanied the requests for the 22 product; is that correct? 23 A. I'll answer this as brief as I can by saying 24 yes, but not always would there be -- it would be not 25 always accompanied by a copy of the specification, no. But - 114 - CONCANNON i JAEGER WATER PCB-00049484 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 the reason I aay yea is because indirectly the specifica 2 tions are all documented and known and published with ASTM, 3 and available and so forth - nothing withheld or anything. 4 Q. And who was it that developed the specifica 5 tions for the Monsanto dielectric fluids that contained 6 PCB's? Were those its customers? 7 A. It was General Electric who invented PCS' s 6 originally, or discovered them as a dielectric, back in 9 1930. Mr. Frank Clark, and he patented the invention and 10 discovery and documented the specifications that General 11 Electric celt necessary and required to meet their needs in 12 the dielectric area for capacitor and transformers. 13 Monsanto then adhered to these specifications, 14 and all of these were officially documented by Mr. Clark in 15 those days, and Monsanto, Dr. Jenkins, and the electrical 16 utility people, and other makers of capacitor and trans 17 formers who participated in the function of American 18 society for testing and materials. 19 Q. Some of the Inerteen and Pyranol products, in 20 addition to containing PCB's, contained other chemicals; is 21 that true? 22 A. That is correct. 23 Q. Did Monsanto manufacture any Inerteen that 24 contained PCB's and any additional chemicals? 25 A. We blended that, yes. - 115 COIICAHtlOH U JAEGER WATER PCB-00049485 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. And did you make blends for General Electric, 2 as well? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And why was it that you made the blends? 5 A. Because we were asked to. 6 Q. And the request would coiae in from one of your 7 customers? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And would the items to be blended be identi 10 fied by your customers? 11 A. Yes. By the official specification, which 12 would have been the specification originating at General 13 Electric and according the specifications say at 14 Westingnouse or the other people. 15 Q. Did Monsanto, aa far as you know, ever make 16 recommendations to its customers about what mixtures were 17 to have in any blends of Pyranol or Inerteen? 18 A. Fundamentally, no. We followed what we were 19 told to make. 20 Q. was one of the items that was occasionally 21 used in the blends, trichlorobenzene? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Where did Monsanto obtain the trichlorobenzene 24 that it used in blends for either Pyranol or Inerteen? 25 A. Hooker, Niagra Falls, New York. - 116 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049486 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. And what is hook, Miagra Falla, Mow York? 2 A. Chemical manufacturer. 3 Q So Monsanto did not manufacture its own tri 4 chlorobenzene? 5 A. Dy and large the answer is no. However, there 6 was a period, I don't know when, that Monsanto also had 7 trichlorobenzene. I can* t document that. Usually it was 0 purchased from Hooker, with approval from GE, who purchased 9 the same material from nooker, and at times. I'm sure you 10 know, GE did their own blending, too. 11 Q. When you said -- and don't let me misquote 12 you? you let rae know if I'm not quoting you correctly. But 13 when you indicated there was a period of time when Monsanto 14 had its own trichlorobenzene, did you mean that there was a 15 period of time when Monsanto manufactured its own 16 trichlorobenzene? 17 A. I think so. 18 Q. And how was itdeterminedwhether Monsanto or 19 GB would make a blend? 20 A. That was determined purely onconvenience, 21 from business economic considerations. 22 Q. And was the decision General Electric's on 23 whether they or Monsanto would make blends of General 24 Electric products containing PCB's? 25 A, Yes. - 117 COMCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049487 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. And the same would be true for Westinghouse? 2 A. Yea. 3 Q, And the same would bo true for any of 4 Monsanto's customers who purchased PCB products from 5 Monsanto? 6 A. Well, the answer Is yes, but Z don't know who 7 made these blends. I don't know that anybody did. They 8 bought them either from GE or from us. When GE licensees 9 and their patents and licenses were effective, everybody 10 bought through GE, who would instruct Monsanto to ship wnat 11 was wanted to their licensees. 12 Q. Did you indicate that General Electric had a 13 patent regarding the specs for the production of PCB 14 dielectric fluid? 15 A. Not for the production, but for the use. 16 Q. And did Monsanto ever purchase that patent? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. We didn't need to. We didn't use it. 20 Q. Did Monsanto ever sell PCB dielectric fluid to 21 any customer other than westinghouse or General Electric? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Did you sell them to Allis-Chaimers? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Was that pursuant to a GE license arrangement? - 118 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049488 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Yes. 2 HR. BAUER: Object. Indefinite as to time. 3 A. Originally -- Repeat the question please. 4 Q. (by Mr* Bradley) Did the sale of Monsanto PCD 5 dielectric fluid to Allis-Chalmers result because they were 6 a licensee of GE7 7 A. Originally, yes. 8 Q. And when did that change? 9 A. When their patents expired. 10 Q. Do yourecall roughly when that was? 11 A. Roughly, that was -- I would set a rough time 12 frame, 1950. . 13 Q. right. Are you familiarwith the term "busi 14 ness group* in relation to Monsanto production of PCD's? 15 A. I would say yes. 16 Q. Were you ever a member of Monsanto* s business 17 group regarding the production of PCB's? 18 A, I would say yes. 19 Q. And what period of time were you a member of 20 Monsanto's PCB business group? 21 A. I am trying to figure out what answer you want 22 here. Are you asking when did I become associated v/ith 23 PCB* s? 24 Q. Let me make it clearer, then. We have learned 25 through other testimony that there was something that was - 119 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049489 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 referred to as the business group relating to PCB's, and 2 what I am interested in knowing is whetner you were ever a 3 member of what you believed was a business group relating 4 to PCB's at Monsanto. 5 A. Hell, I am going to answer your question as G clearly as I can. I became associated with PCB's in 1947; 7 and that was the inorganic chemicals division; and then 9 that, the PCB's -- Incidentally, my involvement with PCB's 9 was not electrical at that point in time, it was non 10 electrical, specifically, nonelectrical. All electrical 11 transactions were handled between Dr. Jenkins, the research 12 director, inorganic division, and GE, Mr. Frank Clark. 13 They handled the electrical. 14 The business group -- I am trying to answer 15 your question. You say a business group. The business 16 group there amounted essentially to a man sitting in an 17 office in St. Louis who would get phone call3 from GE 18 instructing Monsanto to whom and to how much of the 19 dielectric material to ship. 20 Q. All right. 21 A* I am trying to keep it in context with the 22 electrical. And I was not involved with the electrical at 23 this point in time. 24 q. When were you involved with the electrical? 25 A. This runs up to 1951; and there, at that time, - 120 COMCAMMOM & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049490 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 the business of PCB's -- Aroclora was our trade name -- was 2 moved from the inorganic division to the organic chemicals 3 division, and I was asked to go along with it, which I did. 4 Q. So you have been involved in the manufacture 5 of PCB1s at Monsanto, for the electrical Industry, since 6 1951 or *52 until your retirement in 1974? 7 A. In essence, yes, but realize I was not a 8 manufacturing man. Let's get this in context. I have 9 always been a technical man. When you talk to me about a 10 business group, I get the feeling, the connotation, you're 11 wondering whether I was a salesman or a marketing man, a 12 businessman. I'd like to clarifyt I was a technical 13 person associated with the business group that you* re 14 alluding to. 15 Q. What do you mean when you say you have always 16 been a technical man? 17 A. I have always -- I started in as a chemist in 18 analytical areas, and then in research areas, and develop 19 ment areas, with the technology, not the sales or the 20 marketing or the business, as you may think of it. If you 21 were talking to me about nonelectrical -- the electrical, 22 to me, was always highly specialized and technical. 23 Q. Okay. Are you able to estimate the number of 24 customers Monsanto had during the period of time it manu 25 factured PCB's up until your retirement, the number of - 121 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049491 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 customers Monsanto had that purchased those PCB's? 2 A. Again, you're directing this question to the 3 electrical industry, right? 4 Q, Yes, 5 A. I will divide my answer into two parts: One 6 would be the capacitor manufacturers, and the other would 7 be the transformer manufacturers. Now, in the capacitor 8 category, as also in the transformer category, there were 9 not more than a handful, five fingers, in either group, who 10 were relatively large. I say, "relatively," and then there 11 were smaller people. 12 And to answer your question as fully as I can, 13 in the ca>acitoc area I guess we could account for perhaps 14 fifteen companies, some of whom were very small and 15 specialised? and in the transformer area, overall, total, 16 that is just about as good a number as I can give you in 17 that area, 18 Q. Okay. So fifteen for transformer, as well, 19 about? 20 A. Yes. Of which, as I said, there were only a 21 few large manufacturers. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. And by "large," keep in mind that askarel is a 24 specialty dielectric as compared to transformer mineral 25 oil. In i ts business and manufacture, Aroclor, as with - 122 CONCAMNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049492 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 PCB' a, was a very small specialty item. 2 Q. Up until your time of retirement was Monsanto 3 1he sole supplier of PCB'a to the manufacturers in the 4 United States selling capacitors and transformers? 5 MR. BAUER) Objection. Lacks foundation. 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Okay. How is it that you 8 know that Monsanto is the sole supplier? Is that just 9 something that you felt that you knew while you were a 10 Monsanto employee? 11 A. You might say that? but realistically, as you 12 know, it was manufactured in Prance, in Germany. Anybody 13 could have bought it. They paid twenty-five percent more 14 for the same thing they got here. It doesn't make sense, 15 does it? There was no reason to. I have no knowledge, no 16 -- I never knew of any, and I don't believe there wa3 any. 17 It wouldn't have made sense. 18 Q. If Monsanto -- 19 A. The reasons that we started talking about, the 20 specifications documented with ASTM, the technical aspects 21 of this as established in this country, was very, very 22 important. They weren't going to take a chance with stuff 23 coming in unless there was something very critical, and 24 there never was. We supplied what anybody needed or 25 wanted. - 123 - CON CAN NOLI & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049493 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. While you were at Monsanto did you talk with 2 other Monsanto employees about Monsanto -- Let me rephrase 3 the question after the door is closed. 4 While you were a Monsanto employee, did you 5 have any discussions with any Monsanto employees that would 6 lead you to believe that Monsanto either was or was not the 7 sole supplier of PC3's to the united States manufacturers 8 of capacitors and transformers? 9 A. NO. 10 Q. Did you -- And all of my questions, Mr. 11 Benignus, have to do with the period of time that you were 12 an employee of Monsanto; and if I ever want you to address 13 a period of time other than when you were an employee, I 14 will let you know. 15 During the time that you were at Monsanto, did 16 you see any documents that would have indicated that these 17 American manufacturers of capacitors and transformers were 10 receiving pcb's from any source other than Monsanto? 19 A. I retired in 1974. I am trying to put this 20 into context. You must he talking about, certainly, after 21 1970, when Monsanto -- I shouldn't be asking questions, you 22 know. 23 MR. BAUER; Just answer the question, Paul. 24 Do you need it read back? 25 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) I think I asked you whether - 124 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049494 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 you reviewed any documents that would indicate that any 2 American manufacture of capacitors or transformers pur 3 chased PCB's from any source other than Monsanto. 4 A. I am going to say no, to the best of my know 5 ledge, because I would not have been involved. 6 Q. And General Electric certainly knew the 7 specifications for dielectric fluid during the period of 8 time that it was purchasing PCB's from Monsanto. Isn't 9 that fair to say? 10 A. Certainly. 11 Q. And it's fairto say that all of Monsanto's 12 customers of dielectric fluids containing PCB's were fairly 13 knowledgeable of the specifications for that dielectric 14 fluid when they made the purchases. That is fair to say, 15 too, isn* t it? 16 A. I can't say for sure on that -- 17 Q. Okay. 16 A. -- that everybody was familiar with every 19 thing. 20 Q. Would you have expected that to be true for 21 Westinghouse, though? 22 A. I would certainlysay so, yes. 23 Q. All right. 24 A. I would hope, for everybody, butI can't 25 answer you categorically. - 125 CONCANNOH fc JAEGER WATER PCB-00049495 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. There was never anything withheld from any 3 body. Never. 4 Q. I want to talk, now, for a moment, about the 5 blends that included trichlorobenzene? 6 A. Okay. 7 Q. Did Monsanto blend Aroclors with trichloro 8 benzene pursuant to specifications provided to Monsanto by 9 Westinghouse? 10 A. We would have, certainly. 11 Q. All right. And is the same true for General 12 Electric? 13 A. Certainly. 14 Q. Do you recall when Monsanto first began the 15 blending of Aroclors with trichlorobenzene for General 16 Electric? 17 A. You're taking me back to the beginning, which 18 is 1930, I'd say. It was before my time. I really don't 19 know at that point in time whether GE was doing their own 20 blending and Monsanto was just making the PCB. I don't 21 know. And if that were the case, when Monsanto first 22 started blending, that was before my time. Frank Clark, 23 the inventor, he is the one who decided the blend he 24 wanted. I know what this product was, and we made it going 25 way back. The firGt one was called Pyranol. Pyranol is a - 126 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049496 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 GE trade name, Pyranol 1467 is the first transformer blend 2 that I know of, the blend of Aroclor 1260 and trichloro 3 benzene, and that goes back many years before my time. 4 Q. And how about for Vfestinghouse? Do you know 5 when the first -- 6 A. They bought the same thing. They were 7 licensees at that time. 8 Q. So it would have been before 1947? 9 A. Oh, yes. 10 Q. And do you know whether Monsanto conducted any 11 studies on the toxicity of the blends that it was asked to 12 prepare for any of its customers of dielectric fluids? 13 A. I think you ought to ask that question of the 14 medical people. 15 Q. But you are not aware of any? 16 A. Well, sure, I'm aware of studies that were 17 made of the toxicity, and publications of that. Of course, 18 I'm aware. 19 0. And are you aware of any studies on the 20 toxicity of the blends, as opposed to PCB's? 21 A. Mo, I am not. You understand it's a blend of 22 chlorobenzenes mixed with PCB's. The one I am familiar 23 with is on PCB's. 24 Q. Do you know whether -- I apologize. I can't 25 remember specifically the question that I asked before, so - 127 COMCAMNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049497 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 you tell me if I have asked it again* or your attorney 2 wilt. Do you know whether Monsanto conducted any of its 3 own studies on the toxicity of the blends it manufactured, 4 or dielectric fluids. 5 is that what I asked before? MR. BAUERi That seems to be the same ques 7 tion, but go ahead and answer it. 8 A. I* 11 answer that the best I can. As I say, I 9 wasn't in the medical department. Check with them, but 10 it's my impression that these studies were made and paid 11 for by Monsanto, by outside people. 12 Q. And do you know whether General Electric per 13 formed any studies of the toxicity of the blends that it 14 either made itself or requested Monsanto to make for it? 15 A. I can't answer that. 16 Q, And I take it you couldn't answer the same 17 question about westinghouse if I asked it. 18 A. I would say yes. I am aware they both had 19 medical departments and industrial hygiene; I can go that 20 far. I can't speak beyond that. 21 Q. Can you tell me your knowledge of when GE 22 first had a medical department? 23 A. NO. 24 Q. Can you tell me whether they had a medical 25 department before 1960, say? - 128 CONCANWON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049498 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Well, I would certainly think they had a 2 medical department before 1960. 3 Q. Would you expect that they had one, a medical 4 department, before 19507 5 HR. BAUER* Object to the form. 6 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Do you have knowledge of 7 whether GE had a medical department before 1950? 8 A. I would ascume so. It's a big corporation. 9 HR. BAUER* Paul, give him your knowledge and 10 your recollection, but don* t assume. 11 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) You are not supposed to 12 speculate or guess. You1re supposed to give me your best 13 estimates, if you are able to do that, but you are not 14 supposed to speculate. 15 So is it your best estimation, or is it pure 16 speculation? 17 A. It's not pure speculation. I'm not speculat 18 ing on anything here. I*m not speculating on anything. 19 Q. Is it your best estimate that Westinghouse had 20 a medical department before 1950? 21 A. Without any speculation on my part, I would 22 have to say I would assume so; it's a big corporation. 23 Q. All right. Do you recall any of the 24 chemicals, other than trichlorobenzene, that Monsanto used 25 in any of the blends it prepared for any of its dielectric - 129 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049499 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 fluid customers? 2 A. YeB. 3 0. Name for me the chemicals that you can recall. 4 A. We already spoke of trichlorobenzene. There 5 were times when a different chlorobenzene was used. There 6 was a mixture, also from Hooker, composed of trichloro 7 benzene and tetrachlorobenzene. 8 q. Are there any other chemicals that you can 9 recall making in the blends besides the trichlorobenzene 10 and the mixture? 11 A. The fundamental blend was always a blend of 12 PCB's and chlorobenzenes. That was the fundamental 13 formula. 14 Q. Wa3 there ever a time when you manufactured 15 blends that did not follow the fundamental formula? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. We made what we weretold to make. 19 Q Did anyone that you know of at Monsanto ever 20 learn of any adverse health effects to humans from exposure 21 to any of the chlorobenzenes? 22 A. To my knowledge, no. That is as far as I can 23 answer that one. To my knowledge, no. 24 Q. In your priordeposition I asked you questions 25 regarding your informal or formal or anywhere-in-between - 130 COHCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049500 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 review of documents in the raedical department regarding 2 PCS's. Do you recall that? 3 A. I recall that. 4 Q. Do you recall -- Well, then -- and now I am 5 not talking about your prior deposition, but 'm interested 6 in knowing if there was ever a time during your employment 7 at Monsanto when you felt confident that you knew the 3 contents of the medical department's files regarding the 9 health and environmental effects of the blends for 10 dielectric fluids that Monsanto was selling to its 11 customers? 12 A. I can't say that I knew everything in the 13 medical; I wasn't in the medical department. 14 Q. So, is it fair, then, to say that while you 15 were a Monsanto employee you were never confident that you 16 knew all of the information about the health or environ 17 mental effects of the blends Monsanto was manufacturing -- 18 HR. BAUER* Object to the form of the ques 19 tion. 20 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) -- of dielectric fluids? 21 MR. BAUER* Oh. Sorry. Object to the form of 22 the question now. 23 A. Well, I didn't know everything, no. 24 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Okay. 25 A. How could I? - 131 ________________________________________i CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049501 COMPUTER AIDED TRAMSCRIPTION 1 Q. On the other hand, you have indicated before 2 that you felt that you knew -- Let me ask it this way: 3 Actually, I think I will leave the topic. 4 Were you ever involved in the development of 5 any labels that may have been attached to the products 6 manufactured by Monsanto that contained PCB dielectric 7 fluids? 8 A. 9 Q. 10 A, Wot directly, no. were you involved indirectly? I was knowledgeable. 11 Q. All right. Who within Monsanto was responsi 12 ble for developing the labels that were attached to the 13 containers that had PCB dielectric fluid manufactured by 14 Monsanto? 15 A. That would be, in the terms you use, the 16 business group. 17 0. Okay. 18 A. The manager. 19 Q. Are you able to put a name to that person? 20 A. Yeah. Mow, understand,the organic division 21 is wha* I'm addressing here now* They always have had a 22 labeling department. 23 q. And that would nave been true from 1951 or 24 52, at least when you joined the organic division, up to 25 the time of your retirement? - 132 - CONCA1INON it JAEGER WATER PCB-00049502 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A, Yes. 2 Q. Do you recall thenames of any of the indi 3 viduals who directed the labeling department of the organic 4 division? 5 A. The name that I recall, his last name was 6 Sido, 1 think. 7 Q. Would you spell that, as best you can? 8 A. S-i-d-o, I think. 9 Q. Okay. Were you ever asked to comment on any 10 of the labels that Monsanto affixed to the containers of 11 the PCB dielectric fluid that it manufactured? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And who asked you to reviewthose? 14 A. I was asked by this man. That1s why I 15 referred you to him. 16 Q. Do you recall when it was that he asked you to 17 review the label or labels? 18 A. The specific time, no, but I do recall having 19 been asked. 20 Q. Do you recall if you were asked on more than 21 one occasion to review any labels? 22 A. I would say that was it. 23 Q. And do you recall, whether the time that you 24 were asked to review the label or labels was before or 2 5 after 1960? - 133 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049503 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. I don't know that. 2 Q. Do you recall which label you were asked to 3 r ev i ew ? 4 A. 5 Q. The label on the drum containing PCD. Do you recall whether you were asked to review 6 more than one label? 7 A. They* re all supposed to be the same. 8 Q. Okay. And did Mr. Sido indicate to you what 9 you were supposed to do in your review of the label? 10 A. I was supposed to give my knowledge and my 11 thought as to what should be on that label, yes. 12 Q. Do you know whether Mr. Sido asked anyone 13 within Monsanto's medical department to comment on the 14 adequacy of the label? 15 A. I can* t answer that. 16 Q. Do you know whether you were the designee from 17 the medical department who reviewed the label at Mr. Sido's 18 request? 19 MR. BAUER* Object to the form of the ques 20 tion. He's not in the medical department. 21 MR. BRADLEY: I know that. I said the 22 designee of the medical department. 23 Why don't you read the question back. 24 (Thereupon, the reporter read back the question.) 25 q. (by Mr. Bradley) I'll restate the question. - 134 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049504 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Do you know whether you were a designee of, not from, the 2 medical department in making the review of that label? 3 A, I'd say no, because they didn' t. 4 Q, Okay. Do you know whether any of Monsanto's 5 customers blended PCB's with -- in dielectric fluid with 6 anything other than chlorobenzenes? 7 A. No, they didn't. 6 MR. BAUER: Just so this is clear, we're 9 talking about dielectric fluids? 10 MR. BRADLEY < Yes. 11 MR. BAUER: Do you understand what he said? 12 A. It would be crazy if they did. It wouldn't be 13 an askarel. It wouldn't be official. Nobody would be that 14 stupid. Somebody would be crazy if they did. It would be 15 an odd ball. Excuse me. 16 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) I am going to show you my 17 copy of a document, Monsanto Company's preliminary designa 10 tion of possible trial witnesses, parens, fact, parens 19 closed, pursuant to order entered April 9th, 1993, Exhibit 20 A, which has your name, and ask you to review item number 21 five on that, L 22 A. Yes, I read it. 23 Q. May I have it back? 24 A. Oh, sure. 25 Q. Were there scavenger -- I'm now looking at - 135 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049505 COMPUTER AIDED TRAMS CP. IPTIOH 1 number five, and five reads that you may give testimony 2 regarding the nature, purpose and origin of the chlorinated 3 benzene or scavenger slash additives mixed with PCB fluids 4 for use as transformer or capacitor fluids. I read that 5 correctly, didn't I? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Were there scavengers oradditives mixed with 8 PCB fluids for use as transformer or capacitor fluids other 9 than chlorinated benzene? 10 A. There were scavengers that were added in small 11 amounts. 12 Q. What is a scavenger? 13 A. These are chlorobenzene and the -- Excuse me. 14 I will restate that sentence. Chlorinated benzenes and 15 chlorinated biphenyls. They can, under certain circum 16 stances, have emitted from them install amounts, very small 17 amounts, of hydrogen chloride ions, which are objectionable 18 from a dielectric point of view. Therefore, the word 19 "scavenger" sometimes defines maybe better by calling it a 20 getter. These getters latch onto these slight amount of 21 molecules of undesirable ionic contaminant material, which 22 is the hydrogen chloride; and that is the purpose, to latch 23 onto that. Now, these scavengers are In there in the 24 amount of a few tenths of a percent, a very small amount. 25 Do you understand the chemistry of this? - 136 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049506 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Should I go Into this a little bit more? 2 Q. Yes, please, because you're explaining it not 3 just to me but to a prospective jury. 4 A. All right. Well, the chlorinated benzenes, to 5 begin with, they* re a major component in large amounts, 6 maybe fifty or sixty percent of the formula. So are the 7 chlorinated biphenyls. That is the gut of the product, the 8 dielectric. The chlorobenzenes are in there to thin the 9 chior obi phenyla for better low-temperature flow. 10 How, the scavengers are added in very small 11 amount, a few tenths of one percent to get, grab onto, 12 scavenge, latch onto, whatever you want, of chloride ions, 13 hydrogen chloride, that are and can be emitted from this 14 base dielectric mixture consisting of major portion 15 chlorinated benzene, and chlorinated biphenyl. 16 GE used, originally, tin tetraphenyl, t-i-n 17 t-e-t-r-a-p-h-e-n-y-1, as a scavenger, and that was part of 18 their patent. Now, they said, in case of -- I am going to 19 use the term "mild arcing." What is mild arcing? Any 20 arcing is pretty potent. Incipient arcing, that word was 21 used. This presence of this tin tetraphenyl was said to 22 protect the core and the coil of the transformer from 23 excessive damage that may have occurred had this scavenger 24 which ties up this hydrogen chloride not been there. That 25 is the story. - 137 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049507 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Now, in the case of a severe arc, forget it. 2 Dut that is the purpose for the mild arcing. In the normal 3 operation of an askarel transformer it's normal that there 4 is some degree of mild arcing that goes on. That is 5 normal * 6 Q,, What is arcing? 7 A. Arcing is the interruption of an electric 8 current. It's the interruption of power. 9 Q. And what happens in a transformer if there is 10 arcing? 11 MR, BAUERt Objection. Overbroad, and lacks 12 foundation, but you can answer. 13 A. Well, normal mild arcing, as can occur in any 14 askarel transformer, and this is normal, as I said, some 15 molecules of hydrogen chloride are liberated, and this is 16 in there to latch onto that so that it isn't corrosive. 17 That is in the normal operation, and the scavengers are in 18 there for normal operation conditions, 19 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) And if there were severe 20 arcing in an askarel-filled transformer, would that present 21 a problem? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. what kind of problem would that present? 24 A. When you have a severe arc of a dielectric 25 fluid, no matter what the fluid is, you're having a real - 138 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049508 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 problem on your hands, 2 Q. And what kind of. problem? The transformer 3 would blow up, stop working, or what? 4 A. It certainly would stop working. The power is 5 interrupted, yes, and it1s called a primary explosion. 6 These units are sealed, some hermetically 7 sealed, welded shut, in which case a gas is generated, 8 which is hydrogen chloride, way beyond what any scavenger 9 could pick up, and they induce pressure and you've got a 10 bomb. How there can be a primary explosion. It is very, 11 very rare -- I want to emphasize that -- to have a primary 12 explosion in the mineral oil transformer, but you sure can 13 have one. 14 Q. What does the scavenger do with the hydrogen 15 chloride atoms once it locates and attaches itself to it? 16 A. It neutralizes it, in essence. That's why 17 it's there. 18 (Thereupon, a short recess was taken.) 19 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) You were never a part of 20 Monsanto's medical department; is that correct? 21 A. That is correct. 22 Q. Were you ever a designee of Monsanto's medical 23 department for any purpose? 24 A. Ho. 25 Q. Were you ever in charge of relaying medical or - 139 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049509 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 toxicological information regarding PCB's to any unit with 2 in Monsanto? 3 A. Not in any formal assignment or any formal 4 way. However, I would have relayed anything I knew. 5 Q. But if somebody really wanted to know what 6 medical or toxicological information existed on PCB's, they 7 would have had to contact Monsanto1 s medical department? 8 MR. BAUERt Object to the form, 9 A. Yes. Or industrial hygiene, which is a part 10 of medical. 11 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Who was the head of 12 Monsanto's industrial hygiene department between '52 and 13 74? 14 A. Elmer Wheeler was the head. Now I don't know 15 if that ran all the way to '72 or not. But that's my 16 answer. I don't know when Elmer retired. 17 Q, All right. You indicated that GE used tin 18 tetraphenyl as a scavenger. Did they use any other -- any 19 thing other than tin tetraphenyl as a scavenger? 20 A. Yes. Now, I'm going to have to talk a little 21 bit here. 22 HR. BAUER: You have already answered his 23 question. He will have another one for you now, I' n sure. 24 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Tell me what other items 25 they used as scavengers. Now it's your turn to talk a - 140 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049510 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION I little bit. 2 A. I anticipated it. 3 Okay. So you will understand, tin tetra4 phenyls nave limited solubility, which is not a nice S feature to have. It's nicer when it stays in solution. 6 Often it was out of solution, and when the formulation 7 might have been run through a filter press to take out 0 moisture, you took the scavenger out along with it. 9 Now, yes, they eventually changed to epoxide 10 scavengers. They gave up tin tetraphenyl, to answer your 11 question, and adopted epoxides. 12 Q. Did the epoxides have particular names? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. What were their names? 15 A. I don* t recall the specific names. They were 16 di-epoxides. They had two expoxide groups, and they had 17 long chemical names. If I could think of it I would give 18 them to you. 19 Q. I take it they had bettersolubility. 20 A. Yes. Exactly. 21 Q. Did Monsanto blend in either of those scaven 22 gers for products it manufactured and sold to General 23 Electric? 24 MR. BAUER* Object to the form. Indefinite as 25 to time. But you can answer. - 141 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049511 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Yea. 2 Q. (by Me. Bradley) Over what period of time did 3 they do that? 4 A. I can't answer that specifically. After they 5 stopped using tin tetraphenyl, and that was after sometime 6 in the fifties. 7 Q. All right. 8 A, Maybe late fifties. I don't know exactly. 9 Q. Where did Monsanto obtain the di-epoxide 10 scavengers? 11 A. I don't recall. 12 Q. Do you know whether they were purchased or 13 whether Monsanto manufactured them? 14 A. They were purchased. 15 Q. Were there any other scavengers other than the 16 di-epoxide scavengers or the tin tetraphenyl that were 17 added to the GE formulations? 18 A. No, not to my knowledge. 19 Q. Now, let's turn to Westinghouse. 20 A. Okay. 21 Q. Did Westinghouse use a scavenger as part of 22 the blends for its PCB dielectric fluid? 23 A. Ye3. 24 Q. What scavenger did Westinghouse use? 25 A. They used the same thing that was specified in - 142 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049512 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCR IPTION 1 the GE formula. As long as the GE patents were in effect 2 and they had a license under GE, they used the same thing. 3 Q. You indicated that that patent ended in the 4 fifties? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. What did Westinghouse use as scavengers when 7 the patent expired? 8 A. In fact, before the patent expired, just to be 9 specific in detail, v/estinghouse adopted the use of an 10 expoxide, specifically, that name, phenoxy propene oxide, 11 that's one name. Do you want another name for it? 12 Q. Well, let's hear the other name. 13 A. Glyciayl, g-l-y-c-i-d-y-1, phenyl, 14 p-h-e-n-y-1, either, e-t-h-e-r. Thoseare the two names. 15 Q. Did Westinghouse -- 16 A. Conveniently it was called PPO. Tnat is what 17 it was known by, PPO. 18 Q. Did Westinghouse use any scavengers other than 19 PPO as part of its PCB dielectric fluid blend? 20 A. No. That's what they continued to use. 21 Q. All right. Did Monsantoblend in any scaven 22 gers for any other of its customers purchasing PCB 23 dielectric fluids, other than what it had as scavengers for 24 GE and Westinghouse? 25 A. NO. - 143 - CONCANNON 6 JAEGER WATER PCB-00049513 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. Did the scavenger have the aarae purpose when 2 U3ed in transformers as it did when it was used in 3 capacitors? 4 MR. BAUERs Object to the form. 5 A. Essentially, it's synonymous. They were both 6 there to capture small amounts of the objectionable hydro 7 gen chloride ionic material. 8 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) I am now looking at item six 9 on that exhibit, where it says that you will provide testi 10 mony on the method and nature of shipment of Aroclor con 11 taining dielectric fluids to customers, and, in particular, 12 to Westinghouse and GE? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. What method was there in the shipment of 15 Aroclor dielectric fluids to customers, and in particular 16 GE and Westinghouse? 17 A. Well, the prime thing here for packaging for 18 shipment of dielectric insulating fluid, which, particular 19 ly in the case of use for capacitors, requires an extremely 20 high degree of refinement. Now the thing or concern is to 21 avoid having this highly refined dielectric fluid contami 22 nated from anything in our environment. PCB's are polar 23 and therefore very sensitive to trace the contaminations of 24 ionic impurities and in infinitesimal amounts that you 25 can* t Isolate, you can* t identify them. You see only their - 144 CONCANNOIl & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049514 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 effect, for instance, in terms of the dilatorious effect on 2 dissipation factor. So in handling these, the purpose is 3 to avoid contaminating the fluid, to get it in the purest 4 possible form to the customer. Therefore, the tank cars 5 were used only for shipping PCB's, nothing else. The drums 6 were special drums, tested to be sure that there is minimum 7 contamination. I can't say absolutely no contamination, 8 that the sealing compound, the liner in the drum, the 9 lining material, is not dilatorious or has any adverse 10 affect on the quality of the fluid. So that is very much 11 the nature of the shipment and handling of the material, to 12 avoid getting it contaminated. 13 Q. Were the drums also used -- Well, let me back 14 off for a moment. 15 You indicated that the tank cars were only 16 used for PCS transport? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. But I take it the same was not true for the 19 dr urns? 20 A. Oh, yes. These were only new drums, not 21 reused. 22 Q. And the tank cars were transported by what? 23 A. Rail. 24 Q. And the drums were transported by what? 25 A. Usually by truck, but they could be a car - 145 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049515 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 load, a freight car load of drums. 2 Q. When did Monsanto begin putting labels on 3 drums containing PCB dielectric fluid? If it did. 4 A. Excuse me? 5 Q. Well, I haven't established that you put 6 labels on the drums. I assumed that they put labels on the 7 drums. 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. They did put labels on the drums. 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. When did Monsanto begin putting labels on the 12 drums that they used to transport the PCD dielectric 13 fluids? 14 A. Early 1940's. 15 Q. I don't suppose you remember what the early 16 labels indicated? 17 A. Sure, I do. 18 Q. What do you recall them saying? 19 A. I recall that the label said, "Avoid breathing 20 the fumes and the vapors, avoid prolonged contact with the 21 skin. 22 Q. Was there ever a time when the label changed 23 on the drums? 24 A. Not in regards to this. 25 Q. And did the tank cars have the same label on - 146 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049516 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 them? 2 A. I think the lease boards had the same label. 3 0. what is a lease board? Is that the same as a 4 tank car? 5 A. When you ship a tank car, there is a board, 6 and that is where the name comes from. You are talking 7 about an area I wasn't in. The lease board is the papers, 8 the bill of lading that is nailed onto this and tells what 9 the product is in the tank car and so forth. It's a con 10 tainer, the tank car; and in my opinion, yeah, it should 11 have had the same thing. We're talking about something 12 that is very, very important here, from a medical point of 13 view, from a health point of view. I am going to repeat 14 it. My creed always has been, and it's very easy to 15 understand, "Avoid breathing the fumes or the vapors, avoid 16 prolonged contact with the skin," period. 17 Q. The -- Did Monsanto ship PCB*s, PC3 dielectric 18 fluid, to its customers in any container other than drums 19 and tank cars? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And what were those? 22 A. Well, the small package. I think atone time 23 they had a ten-gallon package. I know they had a five- 24 gallon drum. They called it pail, p-a-i-1. 25 Q. Any other containers that Monsanto used to - 147 - COMCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049517 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION - | i 1 ship the PCS dielectric fluids to its customers? 2 A. No. Not to my knowledge. 3 Q. Is there any method or nature of shipment of 4 Aroclor containing dielectric fluids to Monsanto's custo 5 mers that you have not described? 6 A. No. 7 0. All right. I am now looking at item seven on 8 Exhibit A. It says, "Monsanto's evolving knowledge, infor 9 mation, and/or belief regarding the environmental presence 10 of PCS's and Monsanto's response to it." Did I read that 11 correctly? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Okay. When did -- Let me back off for a 14 moment. 15 I am taking your personal deposition here, so 16 I am only interested in what you personally know. When do 17 you have personal knowledge that anyone at Monsanto gained 18 knowledge regarding the environmental presence of PCB*s? 19 A. I would put this at 1961, I guess.. 20 Q, Okay. And what knowledge was there in 1961 21 regarding the environmental presence of PCB'a? 22 A. Word had come to us in the states from abroad, 23 from Sweden, that, I believe PCB's were found in fish or 24 birds, from the sea. 25 Q. is that the Jensen and Whitmeier report? - 148 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049518 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And it* s my memory that their report was 3 issued around 1966 or 1967, and what my understanding is 4 doesn't really important, but are you confident of the 1961 5 date? 6 A. Well, I'm really not. 7 Q. Let me ask it this way 2 How did Monsanto S become aware of the situation in Sweden? 9 A. This was relayed to Monsanto at St. Louis from 10 our representatives who were based in London. 11 Q. And how did your representatives in London 12 learn about the situation in Sweden? 13 A. I don't know the details. 14 Q. Do you know whether it was a result of a re 15 port or a press conference, or a conference, or some other 16 manner in which the information may have been transmitted? 17 A. I donc t know. 18 Q. And when Monsanto received word of the situa 19 tion in Sweden, was that the first time Monsanto had know 20 ledge, information, and/or belief regarding the environ 21 mental presence of PCB's? 22 A. I would say, yes. 23 Q. What did Monsanto do in response to learning 24 of the environmental presence in Sweden? 25 MR. BAUER} Objection. Overbroad. Involves - 149 COHCAHNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049519 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 many, many things over many years, but you can answer it to 2 the extent you are able. 3 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Again, I'm only interested 4 up to the time you retired. You can't speak of anything 5 beyond your retirement, 6 MR. BAUER: That is still seven years. It's a 7 very broad question. 8 A. What did I know was done -- 9 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) By Monsanto in response to 10 its knowledge, information, or belief regarding the 11 environmental presence of PCB's? 12 A. Obviously, this was to the attention of our 13 medical people and industrial hygiene people, and it's my 14 impression, since you* re asking me my impressions, that 15 this was certainly discussed with counterparts at General 16 Electric and at Westinghouse, and with others who knew 17 about this and certainly would be interested in it. 18 Q. All right. Other than the situation in 19 Sweden, did Monsanto gain any other knowledge, information 20 or belief regarding the environmental presence of PCB* s? 21 A. To my knowledge -- it's better if you ask 22 these questions of the medical people, but you* re asking 23 about my knowledge -- yes. I heard a report that PCB had 24 been found in, I think, a peregrine falcon, off the coast 25 of Baja, California, I believe. - 150 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049520 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q, All eight. What other knowledge, information, 2 and/or belief did Monsanto obtain regarding the environ 3 mental presence of PCB' s? I am interested now in your 4 telling me everything that you are aware of that Monsanto 5 knew or gained information on or believed regarding the 6 environmental presence of PCB1s from the time that you 7 learned of the situation in Sweden up until the time you 8 retired. 9 A. I don't know that it'a critical or whether 10 it's exactly before or exactly after 1974 when I retired, 11 30 i may be mixed up a bit on this, but X certainly heard 12 that PCB's had gotten into mink. 13 Q. All right. Anything else? 14 A. I remember that. I had heard that PCB's had 15 somehow got into chickens. I heard that. 16 Q. Anything else? 17 A. That's all I recall. 18 Q, Did you ever hear that PCB's were wnat was 19 claimed to be ubiquitous in the environment? 20 A. Excuse me. Define "ubiquitous." 21 Q. Pervasive. 22 A. Persistent? 23 Q. Pervasive. 24 A. Meaning what? 25 Q. That it was all over the environment. - 151 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049521 COMPUTER AIDED TRAMSCRIPTION 1 A. NO. 2 Q. And did you hear that they were persistent? 3 A. Certainly. 4 Q. What did you hear aboutthat? 5 A. PCB' 6 are veryrefractive, stable materials. 6 They biodegrade very slowly. They're inert, 7 Q. Their stability in part is what makes them 8 useful in dielectric fluid. 9 A. Right. 10 Q. Did you speak with anyone from the medical 11 department regarding what you have relayed to us about the 12 environmental presence of PCD*s and Monsanto gaining 13 knowledge of that? 14 A. Ho, not I. 15 Q. And what wasMonsanto'sresponse to what it 16 learned of the situation in Sweden, the peregrine falcon 17 off the course of Baja, California, and the PCB's getting 18 into mink and chickens? 19 A. Monsanto certainly pursued these things to the 20 best of their ability, and certainly didn't discard any of 21 this, or pass it by. Obviously, they -- I don't know what 22 they did, but they certainly pursued it. 23 q, if I asked you what they did to pursue it, you 24 wouldn't know the answor? 25 A. No. - 152 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049522 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. In fact, after learning of the situation in 2 Sweden* Monsanto increased its production of PCB'sj isn't 3 that true? 4 A. Because of them learning this in Sweden? 5 Q. No, not becauseof it, but after they learned 6 of the situation in Sweden, Monsanto increased itB produc 7 tion of PCB'b; isn't that true. 8 MR. BAUER: Object to that. Indefinite as to 9 time, and to the form. But you can answer it. 10 A. What period in time are you talking about? 11 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Well, 1968. 12 A. Well -- 13 Q. Let me ask it this way, Mr. Benignus: Do you 14 know whether Monsanto's PCB production in 1967 was greater 15 than its production in 1966? 16 A. I would say it was very similar. 17 Q. Do you know whether Monsanto's production of 18 PCB'a increased at all in the late 1960's. 19 A. Essentially, it would have been very similar. 20 Q. Do you know whether Monsanto* s production of 21 PCB'a increased in the early seventies? 22 A. in the early seventies it was shut down. 23 Q. Do you know whether Monsanto's production -- 24 A. The nonelectrical was shut down in the 25 seventies. That's when we shut down nonelectrical procluc- - 153 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049523 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 tion. 2 Q. In 19707 3 A. Yes. So there was a very drastic, dramatic 4 termination of production in 1970. 5 Q, And Monsanto knew that PCB's were very stable 6 when they began their manufacture. Isn't that fair to say? 7 MR. BAUERi Object to the form. Lacks 8 foundation. He is talking about the 1930's. But go ahead S and answer, if you're able, Mr. Benignus. 10 A. That is why GE picked it - one or the reasons. 11 Q. {by Kr. Bradley) You have spoken with enough 12 people at Monsanto and read enough documents to know that 13 Monsanto manufactured PCB's in part because PCB's were so 14 stable. Is that not fair to say? 15 A. We manufactured them at the request of General 16 Electric for the electrical industry, and one of the 17 reasons they were interested in them is because it is a 18 stable dielectric. 19 Q. As far as you know, did anyone at Monsanto or 20 GE or Westinghouse do any studies on the stability of PCB's 21 to determine what would happen to PCB's if they escaped 22 into the environment? 23 MR. BAUER: Object to the form of the ques 24 tion. It assumes a fact not in evidence, which is that the 25 technology was available in the thirties to do that. But - 154 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049524 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 you can answer, if you are able, Mr. Benignus. 2 A. What period are you talking about? 3 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Ever. 4 A. About PCB doing what? 5 Q. Whether Monsanto, General Electric or 6 Westinghouse performed any studies on PCB's and their 7 stability to determine what would happen if PCS's escaped 8 into the environment. 9 A. Monsanto, after there was environmental 10 objection -- and the only reason for any objection was the 11 persistence as expressed by environmentalists, so there was 12 no reason other than that to object, but they objected that 13 it was persistent -- there were studies at that late point 14 in time by Monsanto on soil studies, trying to determine 15 the migration of PCB's in different types of soil. That 16 was done. 17 Q. Were there any studies done on that topic 18 prior to the situation in Sweden becoming known, whenever 19 that was in the 1960's? 20 MR. BAUER: Objection. Lacks foundation. 21 A. No. Not to ray knowledge. 22 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) And when you used the terra 23 "persistence" in regard to PCB's, is that the same as 24 referring to PCB's as stable? 25 A. Yes, uh-huh. - 155 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049525 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 (Thereupon, a luncheon recess was taken,) 2 Q. (by Mr, Bradley) You indicated this morning 3 that, in regards to item seven on attachment A, that you 4 are not the person to ask what particular things Monsanto 5 pursued in response to its acquisition of knowledge, infor 6 mation, and/or belief regarding the environmental preeence 7 of PCB'si is that correct? 8 A, That is correct, 9 MR. BAUERt Object. 10 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Whatever your testimony was, 11 I was attempting to summarize it, and if I have misstated 12 it, then we'll rely on what your answer was previously. 13 Who would be the appropriate person within 14 Monsanto, if there is such a person, who could tell us what 15 Monsanto pursued regarding its evolving acquisition of 16 knowledge, information, and/or belief regarding the envi 17 ronmental presence of PCB's between the time period when 18 Monsanto first learned of the situation in Sweden and the 19 time of your retirement? 20 MR. BAUERt Objection. Lacks foundation, 21 specifically if there is any one person who could testify 22 regarding all of that. But you may answer, if you know. 23 A. This question should be directed to the 24 industrial hygiene people and to the medical people. 25 Q, (by Mr. Bradley) Okay. I am now going to - 156 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049526 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 look at item eight -- Well, have you now told me all that 2 you are aware of regarding Monsanto's evolving knowledge, 3 information, and/or belief regarding the environmental 4 presence of PCB's? 5 A. Yes* 6 Q* I am now going to move on to item eight, then. 7 Did Monsanto provide information to its PCB customers 8 regarding the physical properties of the PCB dielectric 9 fluids they were purchasing? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. What other information if any, did Monsanto 12 provide to its customers for PCB's? 13 HR. BAUER: Objection. Overbroad. 14 MR. MORGAN: I'll join in the objection. 15 Q. (by Mr, Bradley) Go ahead andanswer. 16 A. Well,answering this interms of the litera 17 ture in technical bulletins that I formulated, one can 18 begin with, I think in 1954, the proper handling of PCB in 19 the dielectrical industry, and that was a compilation on my 20 part of the official test specifications, and the method 21 ology# as documented by the American Society of Testing and 22 Materials, for the test procedures for determining the 23 physical constants. That was provided as a convenient 24 reference to anyone interested of the official documenta 25 tions and publications by ASTM, as formulated there by our - 157 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049527 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Committee D-27, where, certainly, General Electric, 2 Westinghouse, Allis-Chalraera, and other significant users 3 of PCB dielectrics attended and participated in drawing up 4 and documenting these things on behalf of the electrical 5 industry. Q. What is the Committee D-27? 7 A. ASTM of course is one of the largest technical 8 organizations in the country* Committee D-27 is a subcom 9 mittee of the dielectrics. And specifically, I am refer 10 ring to the work done there on synthetic dielectrics, wnich 11 are the PCB's, as versus mineral oil, although this commit 12 tee also handled mineral oil dielectrics. 13 Q. So D-27 was a subcommittee of the dielectrics 14 Of ASTM? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Did Monsanto provide information to its cus 17 tomers regarding the toxicity of the blends it was manu 18 facturing for dielectric use which included PCB'a? 19 A. Again, I refer to literature that I formulated 20 from information from information from primarily ASTM. The 21 information given on toxicity was this* Avoid breathing 22 the fumes and the vapors, and avoid prolonged contact with 23 the skin. Now, it would go a little beyond that and say 24 that if it saturated the clothes by a spill, launder the 25 clothes with soap and water; and if the fluid got into the - 158 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049528 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 eye, expect it to sting, normally; and don't worry, there 2 would probably be no injury to the eye, but soothe the eye 3 with vegetable oil and see an ophthalmologist. He may have 4 something a little more sophisticated than the vegetable 5 oil you may have. But there was never known to be any 6 damage to the eye from people getting it in their eye. So 7 anything I wrote to give guidance was, as I just said, 8 avoid breathing the fumes and vapors which were generated 9 at elevated temperatures. You don't encounter this at 10 ambient room temperatures, but at elevated temperatures the 11 fumes are generated, and they are irritating and should not 12 be breathed. 13 Q. What was the title of the document you pre 14 pared in 1950? 15 A. In 1954, I think itwas. 16 Q. All right. 17 A. "The Proper Handling of Askarel Dielectrics in 18 the Electrical Industry," I think is the title. 19 Q. And did that volume have a section where you 20 reported that people should avoid breathing the fumes and 21 vapors and should avoid prolonged contaot with the skin? 22 A. Exactly. 23 0. Did it have the other information you have 24 talked about regarding using soap and water for soiled 25 clothing? - 159 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049529 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. I think so. 2 Q. And did anybody review that document before, 3 or after you wrote it and before it was disseminated to 4 Monsanto customers? S A. I would say yes. 6 Q. And who would that have been? 7 A. That would have been the medical, or 8 industrial hygiene people, who were together. 9 Q. And did the document that you wrote in 1954 10 indicate that fumes from PCD's are toxic primarily because 11 they can attack the liver and kidney? 12 A. It may well have. 13 Q. Are you aware of any other document prepared 14 by Monsanto that it distributed to its customers or to any 15 one within the electrical utility industry that indicated 16 anything about the ability of PCB*s to be toxic primarily 17 because they can attack the liver and kidney? 18 A. I think it was probably in this -- I would 19 have to look it up, but it may well be in there, that it 20 would be proper to be there. 21 Q. And other than the booklet that you prepared, 22 are you aware of my other booklet or letter or label or 23 document in any form that Monsanto distributed to its 24 customers or to members of the electrical utility industry 25 indicating that PCB's aro toxic and can cause damage to the - 160 CONCAHNON > JAEGER WATER PCB-00049530 COMPOTER AIDED TRAil SCRIPT ION 1 liver and kidney? 2 A. Monsanto had the various reports from the 3 medical literature/ in fact/ an entire bibliography, refer 4 ring to people like. Drinker, Treon, was it, and other 5 people who had studied these things, and from the stand 6 point of the medical people. 7 Now, I was not putting together a brochure on 8 the medical aspects of this thing. I was putting together 9 a brochure on the technology of the specifications, the 10 methodology for the standard procedures for testing physi 11 cal and electrical constants, and to advise people about 12 the difference in character of askarel dielectrics -- I'm 13 talking about transformers -- as versus the characteristics 14 of transformer mineral oil. That was the purpose of ray IS writing. My writing wasn't geared as a medical presenta 16 tion, but Monsanto had these things available, and, I know, 17 distributed such information when the occasion arose when 18 someone inquired about it. I am aware of that, and I am 19 aware that others in the electrical industries who had 20 medical departments would have had the same. Keough, was 21 that one? I forget all of these, because it wasn't in my 22 area. 23 Q. But I take it, then, you don't recall seeing 24 any particular documents that Monsanto distributed that 25 talked about injury to the liver and kidney from exposure - 161 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049531 COMPUTER AIDED TRAMSCRIPTION 1 to PCB* 3? 2 A, I recall that. This probably was included, 3 and may well have been in this thing that I put together* 4 I don't remember offhand now; I don't have the booKlet. 5 Q. I don't understand your answer. Other than 6 whether or not it exists in your booklet, you don* t remem 7 ber any particular document that Monsanto provided to its 8 customers that had that information in it. Is that what 9 you're telling us? 10 MR. BAUER* Objection. The characterization. 11 He referenced Drinker's work and Treon's work, already. 12 MR. BRADLEY; Well, He didn't indicate that 13 that was provided to customers. 14 Let me make quite clear, then, the information 15 that I'm seeking. I want to know, other than what is in 16 your 1954 report, whether you recall any document authored 17 by Monsanto that informed its customers or members of the 18 electrical utility industry that there could be liver or 19 kidney damage from exposure to PCB's. 20 A. I think that statement was made in such 21 literature. I think. 22 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) In the medical literature 23 that was -24 A. Mo. In the kind of literature we're talking 25 about here I wouldn't be a bit surprised if I had - 162 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049532 COMPUTER AIDED TRAH3CRIPTI01J 1 inducted that statement. It would have been orderly to do 2 80. 3 Q. Other than what you may have said in your '54 4 document/ do you recall any other Monsanto document that 5 contained that information? 6 A. Direct to the electrical industry? 7 Q. Or to Monsanto's customers. 8 A. There were subsequent publications directed to 9 the electrical industry that may have included this 10 comment. 11 Q. And whether it did or not, you just can't 12 recall now? 13 A. I can't recall at the moment. 14 Q. Do you remember what the general nature of 13 those documents might have been? 16 A, Yes. There is a document subsequent to the 17 one we're talking about that was compiled, and it's title 13 is "Transformer Askarel Maintenance Guide." I think that 19 was the title, and that had a -- although that wasn't 20 medical literature, by any means, but that, too, had a very 21 brief section of comments about the medical aspects of this 22 that may have included what you're asking about. May well 23 have. I'd have to look in the booklet. 24 Q. You indicated Monsanto had an entire bibli 25 ography which included Drinker and Treon. - 163 CONCANHON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049533 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Ye3. 2 Q. Was the bibliography developed and maintained 3 by the medical department or the industrial hygiene 4 department, one or the other? 5 A, I would think 30. And it was available then. 6 I have seen the bibliography and copies of it referring to 7 these various articles from the medical literature, and 8 when an occasion arose or if someone specifically asked for 9 that kind of a thing, I know that it was available and 10 distributed. 11 Q. When is the last time you saw the bibliogra 12 phy? Was it before you retired? 13 A. Yes. This was long before I retired. 14 Q. Would you say it was in -- Well, what year was 15 it that you last recall seeing the bibliography? 16 A. That I last saw it? 17 Q. Yes. 18 A. I don* t know when I last 3aw it. It was there 19 as long as I was there. 20 Q. All right. So it was there at least between 21 the time that you joined the organics division and the time 22 of your retirement. 23 A. Oh, yes. It was there. 24 Q. So between 1952 and 1974? 25 A. It was certainly there. - 164 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049534 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. And was It updated to include new information? 2 A. I think so. At times it probably was - the 3 bibliography. There were subsequent things that would come 4 up, and I imagine, if there was anything of significance, 5 they'd bring it up. 6 Q, Did you discuss the bibliography with Elmer 7 Wheeler or Emmett Kelly or anyone within the medical 8 department or the industrial hygiene department? 9 A. Not that I know of. 10 Q. Well, informally, did anyone ever indicate to 11 you that the bibliography that you have referred to was 12 updated to include new significant studies relating to 13 PCD's? 14 A. Nobody specifically said that to me. 15 Q. Okay. Was the bibliography on some typewrit 16 ten pieces of paper? 17 A. Yeah. Like this. 18 Q. Do you recall roughly how many pages it was? 19 A. It was quite a number of articles from the 20 literature, yes. But it may all have been on one page. It 21 would have been a full page. 22 Q. Do you recall whether, between the period of 23 52 and '74, the bibliography got longer? 24 A. No, I can't recall that. Most of this work 25 was done significantly before, say, 1970, and that sort of - 165 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049535 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 thing. 2 Q. How was the bibliography referred to between 3 1952 and 1974? Did it have a title? 4 A. Yes, it would have had a title, perhaps it 5 was just "Bibliography." 6 Q. And was it within the medical department or 7 industrial hygiene files relating to Aroclors? 8 A. I would expect so. 9 MR. BAUER: Mr. Benignus, I would caution you, 10 give your recollection, not necessarily what you would 11 expect. If you have a recollection, give it to him. If 12 you don't have a recollection, tell him you don't have a 13 recollection. 14 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) I really only do want you to 15 tell me what you do remember. Do you remember where the 16 bibliography was located, whether it was in the PCD section 17 or files of the medical department or the industrial 18 hygiene department? 19 A. I can't answer that, I wasn't in that depart 20 ment, so I don't know. 21 Q. where was it when you saw it? 22 A. It was in our area. 23 Q. Your area being the organics division? 24 A. Yes. And even prior to that. 25 Q. And when you viewed the bibliography, did it - 166 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049536 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 indicate that it was generated by the medical department or 2 the industrial hygiene department? 3 A. I think so. 4 Q. Do you recall whether it had a name on it? 5 A. I don* t recall a name. 6 Q. Describe for me the ways in which Monsanto 7 would provide information to its customers purchasing PCS 8 dielectric fluids regarding the toxicity of the mixture or 9 blend, and let iae help you a little bit. I'm interested in 10 knowing -- We talked about labels. 11 A. Uh-huh. 12 Q. And we talked about your '54 volume? 13 A. Uh-huh. 14 Q. what other ways, if there were any, did 15 Monsanto provide information to its customers or to the 16 electrical utility industry regarding the toxicity re 17 garding of the Aroclor blends that Monsanto was producing? 18 A. That would arise if some of these customers, 19 or anybody, contacted us and requested information. 20 Q. you also had instruction booklets, because I 21 -- Well, let me ask it this way* Did Monsanto prepare 22 instruction booklets regarding the Aroclor blends that it 23 produced? 24 A. 25 Q. use instructions. So yes is the answer? - 167 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049537 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Yes, 2 Q. Okay. And other than the instruction book 3 lets, did Monsanto provide any other written material to 4 its customer or to members of the electrical utility re 5 garding the toxicity of the Aroclor blends that Monsanto 6 was making? 7 A. Not to my knowledge. 8 Q. What communications took place between 9 Monsanto and any of its PCB dielectric fluids users that 10 would have resulted in Monsanto giving them information 11 regarding the toxicity of the Aroclor blends they were 12 purchasing? 13 HR. BAUER: Objection. Overbroad, lacks 14 foundation that Mr. Benignus would know all the ways that 15 such communications would be conveyed. 16 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Well, I am referring, again, 17 to item eight on Exhibit A, which indicates you have know 18 ledge of communications, and, of course, I'm only inter 19 ested in what you know. Tell me what you know about com 20 munications between Monsanto and its customers for PCB*s 21 regarding the toxicity of the Aroclor blends that the cus 22 tomers were purchasing. 23 A. There were certainly some inquiries. There 24 were very few in number that came in. They were very rare. 25 And if such an inquiry came in it would have been answered, - 168 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049538 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 and it would have been referred to our medical department 2 and asked them to answer this thing. And there has been 3 that. Very rare, very few. I'm trying to think. 4 Q. 5 inquiry? Are you talking now about a written or an oral 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. By a specific customer? 0 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. Other than those specific inquiries, 10 did Monsanto provide any workshops or hold meetings for its 11 customers where it communicated what Monsanto knew about 12 the toxicity of the Aroclor blends it was selling? 13 A. I am not familiar with any of that. 14 Q. Did Monsanto hold any kind of workshops or 15 meetings with its PCB customers to impart what information 16 Monsanto had acquired or learned or believed about the 17 environmental presence of PCB'a and Monsanto's response to 18 it? 19 A. Very much so. 20 Q. When did those occur? 21 A. Well, they occurred after 1970. And I would 22 say, between the period of 1971 and when I was retired in 23 *74, it was very active in that period. That is when the 24 environmental thing got underway, as far as my knowledge of 25 this, it starting with discussions at ASTM, and reports - 169 - CONCAHNON 6 JAEGER WATER PCB-00049539 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 there, and then it came up through these technical organi 2 zations, IEEE, NEMA, National Electrical Manufacturers 3 Association, finally, ANSI, American National -- ANSI, they 4 were the apex. 5 It all starts down here with ASTM, and then 6 you had the transformer committees, that's IEEE, people 7 specifically in the transformer industry, organizations 8 like Doble Engineering, who served the transformer users, 9 EPRI, no doubt, and over here were the capacitor people, 10 with the same kind of thing in the capacitor area. That 11 came under NEMA, which serves the transformer, which was 12 IEEE. Some of these people served on both committees. And 13 then, after NEMA, then this was brought up into ANSI, 14 American National Standards Institute, and that was the top 15 of the triangle, and right above that was the law of the 1C land. Congress, So that was the flow of these things. 17 And when the environmentalists had convinced 18 Congressmen, and so forth, and this stuff was active, we 19 worked as fast as we could to get the consensus from all of 20 these people, government people, academia, transformer 21 makers, capacitor makers, the Bureau of Standards, the 22 insurance underwriters, the government agencies, and so 23 forth, to get the consensus as to what needs to be pub 24 lished to disseminate for anyone interested or concerned 25 about the thinking and the best suggestions of this - 170 CONCANHON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049540 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 environmental situation in regards PC3 dielectrics. 2 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) And was the consensus 3 attempted through a committee known as the C107 Committee 4 of ANSI? 5A Yes. That was the final. 6 Q. And Bill Papageorge was the head of that 7 committee, waan't he? 8 A. Yes. He was the head, and ray role there -- it 9 was just right before my retirement. I retired in '74, and 10 these things got into print, I think, in '74, and some of 11 the organizations earlier printed. I think MBNA, IEEE got 12 into print in 1973, I believe. 13 Well, my role there was as chairman of the 14 steering committee. I wasn't going to do any of the work. 15 I was leaving. I was retired. I was on the shelf. But I IS knew the people. And Papageorge, as I remember, was 17 chairman, and then in the working groups, the people who 18 did the work, you had people like Pozefsky in the capacitor 19 section; he was the GE man. You had Raab, from GE, and 20 Sloat, from Westinghouse, in the transformer area. Both of 21 those men, by the way, have passed away. 22 Q. Other than what you have described with the 23 ANSI C107 Committee and the flow chart that you described, 24 and tne workshops or meetings that you indicated, were 25 there any other methods whereby Monsanto communicated with - 171 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049541 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 its PCB customers regarding the PCB problems and Monsanto's 2 response to it? 3 A* Yes. 4 Q. What were those? 5 A. The maintenance guide for transformer askarel. 6 Now, that was compiled by myself before all of this 7 environmental situation broke. We could establish the 8 date. 9 Now, after the environmental thing broke and 10 it was formulated and formalized by this committee work, 11 with the consensus of everybody, that was incorporated into 12 this transformer askarel maintenance guide, and that was 13 distributed to any or all of our customers, or anybody else 14 who wanted it. 15 Q. Do you recall who wrote the section in the 16 maintenance guide that you referred to regarding the 17 environmental presence of PCB'a and Monsanto's response to 18 it? 19 A. I did not compose that. This was formulated 20 from the information that had developed at ANSI C107. 21 Q. All right. Other than what you have now 22 described, were there any other forms of communications 23 between Monsanto and its PCB customers regarding the 24 environmental presence of PCB's and Monsanto's response to 25 it? - 172 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049542 COMPUTER AIDED TRAMSCR IPTION 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. What other forms of communication? 3 A. Letters. 4 Q, What other forms of communication? 5 A. Telephone. 6 Q. What other forms of communication? 7 A. You talk with people. a Q, Have we talked about all of the forms of com 9 munication between Monsanto and it3 PCD customers regarding 10 the environmental presence of PCS's and Monsanto's response 11 to it? 12 A. To the beat of ray ability. 13 Q. And the letters and phone calls, would those 14 have been primarily individual inquiries from customers? 15 MR. BAUERt Object to the form of the ques 16 tion. 17 A. They were letters, required, necessary, to in 18 form Monsanto* s customers of the status, where are we with 19 all of this, because this is a radical change. That was 20 communicated by writing, where we were, and what needs to 21 be done, or will be done. Communicated in writing, and it 22 was said, also, verbally. 23 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) And was there a standard 24 letter or letters that were written by Monsanto to its PCD 25 customers informing them of the environmental presence of - 173 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049543 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 PCB and Monsanto*s response to it? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. How many letter or letters were there on that 4 topic that were sent to your customers, as best you can 5 recall? 6 MR. BAUERt Object to the form. How many 7 different standard form letters as opposed to different 8 individual letters that went out to the different 9 customers? 10 MR. BRADLEY: Yes. 11 A. I don't know. You don't need many. 12 Q. (by Hr. Bradley) Okay. Well -- 13 A. One form letter that spells it out is enough. 14 Q. Yeah. And I have reviewed one form letter, 15 and I want to know whether or not there is more than one 16 form letter, because if there is, then I will request from 17 your counsel that I get a look at it. 18 MR. BAUER: I can stipulate for the record 19 that we have produced many more than one in this case. We 20 have produced more than one. Not a raft, but more than 21 one. 22 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) In addition to the form 23 letters, would there have been letters regarding individual 24 inquiries from specific customers? 25 A. If there were any, yes, they'd have to be - 174 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049544 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 answered individually. 2 Q. And on the phone communications, would those 3 have been standard phone communications given to all PCQ 4 customers, or would those have been primarily in response 5 to individual inquiries? 6 A* In response to individual inquiries. 7 Q. Okay. I am now moving on to item nine of 8 Exhibit A, Between 19 -- Let me ask this question: Are 9 you able to describe for me Monsanto* s knowledge, informa 10 tion, and/or belief regarding the knowledge, understanding 11 and sophistication of Monsanto's transformer and capacitor 12 customers, such as GE and Meetinghouse, with regard to PCB 13 fluids for any period other than 1952 to 1974? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Okay. Over -- Why don* t you tell me what 16 Monsanto's knowledge, information, and/or belief was from 17 the earliest point in time you.are able to identify regard 1 8 ing the knowledge, understanding and sophistication of 19 Monsanto's transformer and capacitor customers such as GE 20 and Westinghouse with regard to PCB fluids. 21 MR. MORGAN: Object to the form of the ques 22 tion. 23 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) He objected to the form of 24 my question. He thinks that I didn't ask a correct ques 25 tion. Go ahead and answer. - 175 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049545 COMPUTER AIDED TRAMSCRIPTION 1 A* You had ray mind set on the environmental 2 thing. That's where my mind is. so I'll answer it in those 3 terms. I would say it was Monsanto's belief regarding the 4 knowledge and understanding, the sophistication of S Monsanto's transformer and capacitor customers such as GE 6 and v/estinghouse in regard to the environmental situation, 7 it was certainly my feeling and, I would have to say, 8 consensus, feeling that people like GE and westinghouse had 9 as much information and knowledge in depth as we had. They 10 were just as active as we were. For instance, at ASTH and 11 on these committees and so on and so forth, yes, the 12 industry was quite well informed. That is not to say that 13 there isn't some transformer user somewhere that was not 14 informed, was not active, and so forth, but the prime 15 people were just as informed as we were. We were all 16 together, and the government agencies, as well. 17 Q. Between the time that the situation in Sweden 18 became known and the time of the completion of the work of 19 the ANSI C107 Committee -- 20 A. Yea. 21 Q. -- what was Monsanto's knowledge, information, 22 and/or belief regarding Westinghouse* 9 knowledge, under 23 standing and sophistication regarding the topic of the 24 environmental presence of PCB's. 25 MR. MORGAN: Object to the form of the ques- - 176 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049546 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 tion. Calls for hearsay, overspeculation, overbroad and 2 vague. 3 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Go ahead and answer. 4 A. I would answer that by saying it would be 5 better to direct this question to the industrial hygiene 6 and medical people; but as far as I am concerned, I was 7 aware from my contact with people as you have here, 8 Westinghouse and GE and some of those people working on our 9 committees, they knew as much as I did. 10 Q. And what was Monsanto's information, knowledge 11 and belief about Westinghouse*s knowledge, information, or 12 belief of environmental problems associated with PCB*s 13 prior to the situation in Sweden becoming public? 14 HR. BAUER: Object to the form of the ques IS tion. 16 A. Relative to the environment situation, I don't 17 know. 18 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) And what was Monsanto's 19 knowledge, information, or belief regarding Westinghouse's 20 knowledge of the toxicity of the Aroclor blends it was 21 using over any period of time that you were employed at 22 Monsanto? And for the purpose of your answer, I would like 23 you to identify the time period you* re referring to. 24 MR. BAUER: Object to the form of the ques 25 tion. - 177 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049547 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 MR. MORGAN; Object to the form of the ques 2 tion. 3 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Okay. Let merephrase it, 4 then. During the period between 1935 and 1950, what was 5 Monsanto's knowledge, information, and/or belief about 6 Westinghouse's knowledge of the toxicity of the Aroclor 7 blends it was asking Monsanto to manufacture for it? 8 MR. BAUER: Objection. Lacks foundation. 9 I-1R. MORGAN; Join the objection. 10 A. I wasn't there. I wasn't involved with it 11 during that period of time. 12 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Between '35 and '50? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. All right. So you're unable to answer that 15 question for that period of time? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Between 1952 and 1974, when you retired, what 18 was Monsanto's knowledge, information and belief regarding 19 Westinghouse's knowledge of the toxicity of the Aroclor 20 blends it was contracting with Monsanto to manufacture? 21 HR. BAUER: Objection. Lacks foundation that 22 this witness would know everything that Monsanto knows. 23 But you can answer to the extent you are able. 2 4 MR. MORGAN: Also object to the form of the 25 question. - 178 COMCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049548 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. I was not in the industrial hygiene or medical 2 area* I did know that Meetinghouse, GE, probably some of 3 the other customers, had medical departments, to some 4 extent, and personally I was of the impression that these 5 people knew, certainly, about what you have already talked 6 about, the toxicity of PCB's, and had the bibliography we 7 referred to* 8 Q. How do you know they had the bibliography you 9 referred to? 10 A. I'm sorry. It's conjecture. I can't say 11 that. I* ra sorry. 12 Q. Okay. So, when you -- 13 A. 1 wasn* t in that area. 14 Q. When you began in 1952 -- 15 A. Uh-huh. 16 a. -- working with PCB's - 17 A. Uh-huh. 18 Q. -- were you under the impression that 19 Westinghouse had its own medical department? 20 MR. BAUER: Object to the form of the ques 21 tion. 22 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) When you -- In 1952 what was 23 your opinion, if any, regarding whether Westinghouse had a 24 medical department? 25 MR. MORGAN; Object to the question. Asking - 179 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049549 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 him for an opinion. Why don't you ask him if ho knows or 2 doesn' t know. 3 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Go ahead and answer the 4 question. 5 A. I knew - If you're asking about Westinghouse 6 and GE, I knew they had a medical department. 7 Q. So you knew Westinghouse had a medical depart 8 ment in 1952? 9 A. I can* t swear to it. All right? 10 Q. Is it fair to say that you knew Westinghouse 11 had a medical department round 1952? 12 A. I was never at theirWestinghouse medical 13 department. I didn't deal with the Westinghouse medical 14 department. You'd better ask the question of our medical 15 people rather than myself, because I don't want to put in 16 any conjecture on it. 17 Q. Well, let me ask it this way: In 1952 did you 18 believe that Westinghouse had amedicaldepartment? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. old you believe in '52 that GE had a medical 21 department? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Did you believe between 1952 and 1974 that 24 both GE and Westinghouse continued to have medical depart 25 ments? - 180 - COHCAUNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049550 COMPUTER AIDED TRAHSCRIPTIOtJ 1 A. Well, without assuming anything, yeah, 2 Q. And did you have a belief between 1952 and 3 1974 whether the Westinghouse medical department knew the 4 medical literature that wa3 published on the toxicity of 5 PCB and Aroclor blends? 6 MR, BAUER: Give me the question again. 7 MR. BRADLEY: The toxicity of PCB and Aroclor 8 blends. 9 (Thereupon, the reporter read back the question.) 10 MR. BAUER: Object to the form of the ques 11 tion, specifically the use of the term, "belief," which may 12 invite testimony other than testimony from personal know 13 ledge . 14 THE WITNESS: I don't know. I lost the whole 15 thing, now. 16 MR. BRADLEY: Okay. Why don't we take a break. 17 (Thereupon, a short recess was taken.) 10 MR. BRADLEY: Would you read back the last 19 question. 20 (Thereupon, the reporter propounded the previous 21 question.) 22 MR. BAUER: Same objection as stated before. 23 A. I was never at the Westinghouse medical 24 department, and I don't recall ever talking to anyone at 25 the Westinghouse medical department, and I am really not - 181 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049551 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 qualified to answer the question. 2 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Okay. Then let's move on 3 from number nine to number ten of Exhibit A. 4 Have you already described essentially the 5 relationship that Monsanto had with its PCB dielectric 6 fluid customers? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Between 1952 and 1974, what was Monsanto's 9 knowledge,, information, and/or belief regarding the 10 hazards, if any, to users of PCB*a or of transformers or 11 capacitors containing PCB fluids? 12 MR. BAUER: Object to the form of the ques 13 tion. Lacks foundation. 14 A. He were -- I was not, and I can't recall 15 knowing of an instance where any of these customers called 16 us about a problem with hazard, toxicity or handling of 17 these fluids in that period of time. 1 8 Q. Between '52 and '74 were there any hazards to 19 users of PCB's? 20 MR. BAUER: Object to the fora of the ques 21 tion. Lacks foundation. 22 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Well, let me ask it this 23 way: You were not in the medical department. You have 24 indicated that, correct? 25 A. Right. - 182 COHCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049552 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. You were not in the industrial hygiene 2 department. 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. Are you qualified to describe for me the 5 hazards, if any, to users of PCB's between 1952 and 1974? 6 A. I didn't encounter any. 7 Q* My question is, are youqualified to talk B about the hazards, if any, to users of PCB*s between 1952 9 and 1974, considering you were never a part of the medical 10 department? 11 A. I would be qualified to the extent of saying, 12 "Very definitely avoid breathing the fumes and the vapors 13 in any situation, and avoid prolonged contact with the 14 skin. " 15 Q. Okay. And is it true that, between 1952 and 16 1974, you, at least, had the belief that there were no 17 hazards to users of PCB's if they avoided breathing the 18 vapors and they avoided prolonged contact with the skin? 19 A. Yes, sir. Yes. 20 Q. Relative to what you have been describing as 21 the need to avoid prolonged contact with the skin, how much 22 contact is prolonged contact? 23 MR. BAUERt Object to the form. Lacks founda 24 tion. 25 Q, (by Mr. Bradley) Well, let me ask it in a way - 183 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049553 COMPUTER AIDED TRAN3CRIPTION 1 that maybe will be a better form. What did you mean when 2 you have told us that users of PCB's should avoid prolonged 3 contact with the skin? 4 A. All right. What I have in mind is this8 if 5 I'm working with the material and it spills on my skin, I 6 would wash it off with soap and water. That doesn't mean 7 that I would be upset about this and rush to do it. In a 8 normal way I would wash it off with soap and water, I 9 would do this particularly if I were going to lunch short 10 ly, and I would do this if I were going to go home shortly. 11 I would wash my hands. 12 Let me say this: If it spills on my clothes 13 by accident and saturates my clothes, I would want to take 14 those clothes off and have them laundered. It was standard 15 practice for people working in plants handling this to 16 change their clothes, maybe not every -- What I mean is 17 this: They have work clothes that were not their street 18 clothes. They would have a locker, for example; and in our 19 plant we provided a shower for the people making it. Now, 20 I never heard of any problem or trouble arising in this 21 area from contact with the skin. 22 MR. BAUERi If you recall, what do you mean by 23 prolonged. That was the question. Have you ansv/ered that 24 question? 25 THE WITNESS: I am trying to answer it. Maybe - 184 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049554 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 not the way it should be. 2 Let me say, if ~ right now, if we had a 3 bucket or a pail of this and I put my arms in it and washed 4 it, then I wouldn't be upset by this whatsoever, I might 5 say, "Well, wait a minute. I'm going to go to the washroom 6 and wash my hands." 1 wouldn't want to sit here unneces 7 sarily the rest of the day with my hands wet with PCS/ 8 neither would it be on tomorrow. It would be washed off 9 before then. I wouldn't expect anything to happen to my 10 skin; it never has. So that is -- Prolonged would be if I 11 left it on and went home with it on my hands, and so forth. 12 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Let's say, for example, that 13 day you work from 8:00 to 5:00 and you took a lunch from 14 12:00 to 1:00 and you spilled some on your hands about 8tl5 15 in the morning. Would you wait until lunchtime to wash 16 your hands? 17 A. Ho, not purposely. But if that was what 18 happened, I wouldn't be upset with it, at all, but I would 19 wash it off when it was convenient, before that. 20 Q. Okay. And did Monsanto -- Let me start all 21 over again. Surely you knew that individual power compan 22 ies purchasing transformers and capacitors that had PCB's 23 in them would come in contact on occasion with the PCB'a; 24 isn't that true. 25 MR. BAUER: Object to the form of the ques- - 185 COMCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049555 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 tion. 2 A. I would expect this to happen, yes. 3 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Okay. And did Monsanto in 4 form the electric power companies that were going to pur 5 chase the transformers and capacitors that contained the 6 PCB* s that Monsanto employees change their clothes daily 7 when those workers are exposed to PCB*s? 8 A. Not to my knowledge. 9 Q. Did Monsanto inform electric utility companies 10 purchasing transformers and capacitors with PCB'a that 11 Monsanto provided a shower for its employees who worked 12 with PCB'a? 13 A. They may have, but not to my knowledge. 14 Q. It's true, is it not, that Monsanto at one 15 time between 1952 and 1974 actually paid its employees for 16 twenty minutes of shower time if they were working in areas 17 where they were exposed to PCB's? 18 MR. BAUER: Object to the form. Lacks founda 19 tion. 20 A. I don't know that. I was not in the plant. 21 This should come from whoever was in the plant. I do not 22 specifically know. 23 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Did Monsanto inform electric 24 utility companies who were purchasing transformers and 25 capacitors containing PCB*s that it was standard practice - 186 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049556 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 in plants handling PC3'a to have the workers change from 2 their street clothes to their work clothes while they were 3 working with PCB's? 4 A. I never got into that* Now, what the medical 5 or hygiene people did, I don't know. 6 Q. Between 1952 and 1974, if a worker was exposed 7 to PCB's in the early part of his or her shift and didn't 8 wash until they cook their shower, would that have been 9 prolonged contact with the skin, as you have used that 10 phrase during your deposition? 11 MR* BAUER: Object to the form of the ques 12 tion. Calls for speculation and is an incomplete hypo 13 thetical . 14 A. I am a bit confused as to just what the 15 question really is asking. 16 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Well, I am interested in 17 your use of the term "prolonged contact with the skin,* and 18 my question is If a worker was exposed to PCB's at 8:15 19 in the morning and worked an 8:00 to 5:00 shift, and they 20 didn* t cleanse themselves until they took a shower around 21 5:00 p.nu, would that constitute prolonged skin contact as 22 you have used that phrase during your deposition? 23 MR. BAUER: Same objection to the question. 24 He has already explained what he meant by "prolonged," 25 directly, and using speculative hypothetical doesn't add - 187 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049557 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 to the answer. 2 A* I have to know what is meant by "exposure/" 3 you see* I am confused. I am hung up on that. I know 4 where people worked eight-hour daya, day in and day out/ 5 worked with open vats bigger than this table, with 6 dielectrio in there, PCB dielectric in there, at ambient 7 temperature, somewhat like this, and the whole thing was 8 open. The vat had been an impregnating vat, holding 9 capacitors, and had not been sealed, these holes were 10 sealed by soldering shut underneath the fluid. Why? To 11 keep the air from the room contacting the fluid. Now, 12 these people were exposed to the open fluid the whole day, 13 and it didn't bother them. Now, if somebody was exposed to 14 PCB* s at an elevated temperature and the stuff is hot and 15 they got their whole arm into it, that*3 a different 16 exposure. 17 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Bow about if they have their 18 arm into it and it*s not hot, and that is the exposure, and 19 it's the people working with the vats that you have just 20 described? 21 A. Uh-huh. 22 Q. if they don't clean their arm until the end of 23 an eight-hour shift, would that constitute prolonged con 24 tact with the skin as you have been using it during your 25 deposition? - 188 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049558 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 MR. BAUERt Same objections. 2 A. Well, they didn't put their bare hands into 3 this. It vas -- I haven1t see them solder this shut, but 4 you've got the soldering iron and the solder; you don't 5 have to put your hands under the fluid to do this. The 6 fluid is only about this deep over the top. I am just 7 talking about one thing here. 8 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Well, then, let me ask it 9 this way* If the worker had the equivalent of sticking XO their arm into a mixture of PCS'o up to their elbows and 11 did not keep it there for more than ten or fifteen seconds, 12 and then withdrew it, and that happened at the beginning of 13 an eight-hour shift, and they didn't clean their arm until 14 the end of their eight-hour shift, would that constitute 15 prolonged contact with the skin as you have used that 16 phrase in your deposition? 17 MR. BAUERi Object to the form of the ques 18 tion. 19 MR. MORGANt I join in the objection. 20 A. That would not meet with my approval. 21 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) That would be prolonged 22 contact with the skin? 23 A. Sure. 24 Q. And if that same worker washed their arm be 25 fore lunchtime, and the exposure happened shortly after the - 189 COHCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049559 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 shift began, ao let's say 8:01 a.m., and they washed it at 2 noon, would that constitute prolonged contact with the skin 3 as you have used the phrase during your deposition? 4 MR. BAUER: Object to the forra of the ques 5 tion, and also asked and answered, this time. 6 A. In ray personal opinion, I wouldn't approve of 7 that. 8 Q. 9 A. 10 Q. {by Mr. Bradley) Okay. There is no need for it that I know of. Do you have any information at all regarding 11 any communication between Monsanto and electric utility 12 companies using transformers and capacitors containing 13 PCS's? 14 A. 15 a. Did we ever have any direct communication? Yes. 16 A. I would cay yes. 17 Q, Okay. And with whoa did -- Do you recall any 18 direct communication with Nevada Power Company? 19 A. NO. 20 Q. Do you recall any direct communication with 21 any particular electric utility company? 22 A. Not in particular, no. 23 Q. And do you know whether those communications 24 came from large electric utility companies? 25 A. I would meet people from the electrical utili- - 190 - COHCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049560 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 ty companies. Those who served on our committee worked 2 with ASTM. and so forth. 3 Q Okay. Other than committee work did you meet 4 with any members of the electrical utility industry? 5 A. At one time I did. 6 Q. And under what circumstances did you meet with 7 them? 8 A. This was when the Edison Electric Institute. I 9 knew, had made a survey of the electrical utilities to find 10 out what utilities were using askarel PCS transformers and 11 what utilities did not use PCB transformers. 12 First of all. the PCB transformer is a 13 specialty item, more costly than mineral oil. and it is a 14 judgment matter on the part of somebody there as to whether 15 they feel it necessary to spend the extra money to put in 16 an askarel transformer instead of the cheaper mineral oil 17 and to make a judgment about what is their particular view 18 or possible hazard to humans from the standpoint of fire. 19 And the direct competitor to the askarel transformer. I 20 would say. is the open dry type. Mow. there is considera 21 tion here. You can't very well put an open dry type where 22 you* re going to have water flooding. 23 0. But my question, though, was. what circum 24 stances did you have the communication with the electric 25 utility company? - 191 - COMCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049561 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. I am leading to that. 2 Q. Okay, 3 A. And so, there are these choices and 4 differences/ and, obviously/ it's of interest to Monsanto. 5 Well/ if they prefer the askarel, why? If they don't elect 6 to use it/ also why? 7 That was the occasion of my calling them. No a other reason. So we called on a number of these utilities 9 and inquired about this. 10 Q. Do you recall how many utilities you contacted 11 about that? 12 A. Oh/ I think there was a pageful of them/ half 13 a pageful of them. 14 Q. And of the half to full page, roughly half of 15 those used askarel and half of them used dry transformers, 16 or what was the -- 17 A. Something like that, yes. There was about a 18 half-and-half mix, and we were curious. Well, wnat goes on 19 here? So we spoke to the utility people* 20 Q. Other than that, have you had any communica 21 tions with customers of transformer and capacitor manu 22 facturers for equipment that contained PCB's? 23 A. Of the customers? 24 Q. Yes. 25 A. Of the manufacturers? - 192 - CONCAHHON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049562 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. Yes. 2 A. NO. 3 Q. Okay. Between 1952 and 1974, did you com*4 municate with any trade or industry association regarding 5 the toxicity of PCS's? 6 A. I would have to say that this was discussed at 7 our technical meetings, certainly. It came up from time to 8 time one way or another. 9 0. It came up in the technical meetings of what? 10 A. In discussions andconversationswith people 11 at ASTM, for example, that they were aware of the toxi 12 cology that we referred to, yes. 13 Q. Other than ASTM, what other trade or industry 14 associations did you have contact with regarding the 15 toxicity of PCB* s 16 ?A. By far it was my contacts at ASTM, addition 17 ally the work, the standards and so forth that were set in 18 this country, this information was disseminated around the 19 world, in Europe and France, where they made PCB*s, in 20 England, where we made PCB*a, in Germany, where they made 21 PCB*s, and in Russia, and also Italy. That was very much 22 my work, was traveling worldwide, international, going 23 around and talking to the manufacturers, and so on and so 24 forth. 25 While I think of this, this brings up this - 193 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049563 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 point about when I said 1961, we want to correct that; it 2 should have been probably 1966. 3 Q. You are talking about the date that you became 4 aware of the situation in Sweden? 5 A. Yeah. And this brings to mine, in 1966, for a 6 good part of it, I was out of this country, you see. I 7 ween't sitting in St. Louis to receive this. I waan't on 3 the receiving end of this communication. In fact, 1 was in 9 Australia. And in '66 or '67 I was also in Japan. I 10 traveled a great deal in Europe. I traveled in Sweden, 11 where this thing originated. I wondered, well, who uses 12 PCB there? I knew they used it to make capacitors in 13 Sweden. Is this where it came from? I don't know. 14 Q. What trade or industry associations within the 15 United States did you have communications with, if any, 16 other than ASTM, regarding the toxicity of PCO's? 17 A. That's it. I'd say ASTH. Mow, realize that 18 ASTM, people like Doble Engineering -- you're familiar 19 with, I imagine? 20 Q. Yes. 21 A. They aerva the transformer makers with guid 22 ance, so at ASTM, the Doble representatives were always 23 there, and I would have had contact with them, and we would 24 have discussed anything of interest regarding toxicity, or 25 whatever. - 194 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049564 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. Between 1952 and 1974, did any trade or 2 industry association disseminate any information regarding 3 toxicity of PCD* s? 4 A . ye s. 5 Q. Which association and which year? 6 A. I just mentioned Doble. They had their guy. 7 And, you see, you run this up to 1974, you're running up 8 through the environmental thing, in fact. 9 Q. The question was about the toxicity and not 10 the environmental presence. Is that how you took my 11 question? That's how I intended it. 12 MR. BAUER: But that assumes that publications 13 triggered by the environmental issue did not also talk 14 about toxicity, which is not an assumption that you ought 15 to make. 16 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Go ahead and answer the 17 question, if you remember it. 18 A. What organizations between *52 and '74 dis 19 seminated Information that was available to the electrical 20 industry, the utilities and the users, about toxicity? Was 21 that the question? 22 Q. Yes* 23 A. All right. Again, I'll Btart with Doble; we 24 just finished talking about them. They published a book 25 let, revised their booklet, in fact, to include the - 195 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049565 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 environmental thing. You're running into *74. Now IEEE, 2 the institute of Electronic and Electronic Engineers, had 3 their guide from many years back, and that was reissued in 4 this time frame that you are talking about, and it certain 5 ly mentions about toxicity, and then there was -- Who else had a guide? Well, I'm sure the transformer makers would 7 have had guides. I'm sure they had literature. I didn't 8 write that. I can tell you this. 9 Q* The question was about trade or industry 10 associations. 11 A. Well, yeah. We'll go back to IEEE. NEMA, 12 National Electrical Manufacturers Association, yes, that is 13 one that issued a guide, and certainly discussed this. 14 Then eventually ANSI cornea in there. That is in 1974, so 15 that was the top of the triangle, as we spoke. Wait a 16 minute. No, that is not a trade association. I was going 17 to say S.D. Warren and people who clean up transformers and 18 that sort of thing. They had literature and guides. But 19 that is not a trade organization. I listed the ones. 20 Should I go over them again? 21 Q. No, I have them. And did those same trade 22 associations publish information on the environmental 23 presence of PCB's? 24 A. Yes. On the revised final revision of their 25 literature, guides, directions that were out so many years, - 196 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049566 COMPUTER AIDED TRAMSCRIPTION 1 they redid them to include that, yes. Yes, indeed. That 2 occasioned it. 3 Q. And were there any other trade or industry 4 associations that you're aware o that published informa 5 tion on the environmental presence of PCB's, other than 6 what you have already described? 7 A. No, not to my knowledge. I can't think of 0 any. 9 Q. Between 1952 and 1974, was PCB present in 10 mineral oil electrical equipment? 11 MR. BAUERt Object to the form. Lacks 12 foundation. 13 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) I am now looking at item 14 sixteen, which is an area that indicates you're going to 15 testify about Monsanto's knowledge, information and/or 16 belief, if any, regarding the presence of PCS's in mineral 17 oil electrical equipment. So between '52 and *12, did you 18 become aware whether PCB's were present in mineral oil 19 electrical equipment? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. What did you learn? 22 A. That very small amounts of PCB's did indeed 23 get in the mineral oil. It was a very incidental contami 24 nant, in very small amounts. 25 Q. Did you ever learn whether Monsanto intention - 197 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049567 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 ally added PCB's to mineral oil? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Did you ever learn whether General Electric 4 intentionally added PCB's to mineral oil? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Did you ever learn whether Westinghouse 7 intentionally added PCB's to mineral oil? 8 A. No, sir. 9 Q. To your knowledge, what was the greatest per 10 centage of PCB's detected in mineral oil electrical equip 11 ment oetween the period of 1952 and 1974? 12 A. I don't know, other than it was a very inci 13 dental, small amount that we're talking about. 14 Q. Less than onepercent, less than five percent? 15 A. Oh, yes. Parts permillion, you're into. 16 That needs very special analytical tools to find it. 17 MR. BRADLEY: Okay. I think this would be a 18 good time to break for the day. 19 MR. BADER: Okay. 20 (Thereupon, the deposition was adjourned until ten 21 o'clock the following morning, July 16th, 1993, at which 22 time the following proceedings were had:) 23 24 25 - 198 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049568 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 CONTINUATION OP DIRECT EXAMINATION 2 QUESTIONS BY MR. BRADLEY: 3 Q. Are you ready, Paul? 4 A* Yes. 5 Q* Mr, Benignus, we're here on the second day of 6 your deposition, July 16th -- 7 MR. BAUBRt And it's the third day, the second 8 consecutive day. 9 MR. BRADLEY: Pine. 10 Have you had a chance to talk with any of your 11 attorneys between the end of yesterday's deposition and 12 this morning regarding your deposition testimony? 13 A. My answer is no. 14 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Do you have in front of you 15 Exhibit A, which we referred to yesterday, which has the 16 listing of Monsanto's expectations regarding your testimony 17 in this litigation? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. I am going to be referring, now, to item 20 seventeen. 21 A. All right. 22 Q. Did Monsanto enter into special undertaking 23 agreements with GE, Westinghouse, and other PCB dielectric 24 fluid users regarding the sale and use of PCB's? 25 A. Yes. - 19 9 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049569 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. When were those special undertaking agreements 2 begun? 3 A. I can give you approximate timing on this, and 4 in 1970 the top management at Monsanto said we can no 5 longer spend the time, top management, in discussing 6 nothing but what we're hearing, objections to PCB, and this 7 has to stop, and the directive came down, we will stop, and 8 they did stop tor all nonelectrical, on the premise that 9 there are replacement substitutes available. So that ter 10 minated nonelectrical. 11 When the electrical industry heard of this, 12 word came, "Do not let Monsanto take the precipitous action 13 Monsanto took with the nonelectrical users, that there are 14 no fire fire-resistant replacement dielectrics." There 15 weren* t then, there are none now, and there probably never 16 will be. So, on that basis and that insistence, the 17 electrical industry insistence that there would be great 18 harm done to the country, and government people got pulled 19 in on this for their consideration, that we would have to 20 continue to supply PCB's for the electrical industry. 21 To answer your specific question, Monsanto now 22 agreed to go along with that on this basis: We will supply 23 only to manufacturers of capacitors and transformers, and 24 the premise was this is a closed apparatus, not open, as 25 the nonelectrical, plasticizers and so forth -- This was a - 200 COHCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049570 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 closed hermetically sealed apparatus -- and that it would 2 be monitored, and that the sale would be only to the raanu3 facturers of the apparatus, and that it would be done on 4 the basis of a hold-harmless agreement, and they all had to 5 sign this or they were not able to obtain it. 6 Now, supply to any others than people who did 7 not manufacture tne apparatus would have to come from the 8 manufacturer of the apparatus, not from Monsanto. 9 Q. You mentioned a hold-harmless agreement. What 10 was the hold-harmless agreement? 11 MR. BAUER) Object to the form to the extent 12 it calls for a legal conclusion, but you* re welcome to give 13 him your understanding. 14 A. I would haye to say, whatever that means, 15 "hold harmless," 16 Q. (by Hr. Bradley) All right. If somebody sued 17 Monsanto -- 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. -- relating to their manufacture of PCB 20 fluids, somebody else would pay if it was determined that 21 Monsanto had any responsible. Is that your understanding? 22 MR. BAUER) Object to the form. Calls for a 23 legal conclusion. It's not specific as to a document that 24 is not before us, but subject to that you can answer. 25 A. I'd gone along with that, yes. - 201 CONCANNON 6 JAEGER WATER PCB-00049571 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) What was Monsanto's purpose, 2 as you understood it, in requiring the hold-harmless agree 3 ments? 4 A, Appreciate that at this point in time this was 5 a tremendous change o attitude towards PCB, which had 6 never caused any problems in the environment, other than by 7 now it was Known it was found in a peregrine falcon in 8 Baja, California, as we discussed, and now the discussion 9 and consideration was in parts per million and parts per 10 billion. This boggled my mind and boggled everybody else*q 11 mind. Can't speak for everybody else, but this is the 12 tenor of the thing, "What is going to happen hero." 13 0. What was Monsanto's purpose, then, in 14 requiring the hold-harmless agreements before it sold PCB 15 dielectric fluid to any manufacturers of capacitors and 16 transformers? 17 A. To hold Monsanto harmless if something 18 happens. 19 Q. And what was the effect, if any, of Monsanto 20 entering into those hold-harmless agreements with its 21 dielectric fluid customers? 22 MR, BAUER: Objection. Vague. 23 A. One effect, obvious, it restricted the ability 24 to obtain PCB'a. It restricted it. Only a very limited 25 number of people were able to obtain it, and, therefore, - 202 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049572 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 this facilitated the ability to monitor and account for 2 details about what was going on. Now, that is one aspect. 3 Another aspect to this is, Monsanto wanted to 4 get out o the business altogether. Because of the 5 requests from the industry, electrical industry, or on 6 behalf of the electrical industry, we continuedi and, as 7 3aid, there was no known acceptable proven replacement, 8 certainly no fire-resistent replacement that anyone knew 9 of. And this, now, allowed the head people in the 10 electrical industry, it gave them time to ferret out, seek, 11 probe for a replacement. It gave Monsanto time in our 12 research to do things we had never done before, which is 13 make capacitors, experimentally, not transformers, to see 14 if we could find an acceptable replacement. We spent a lot 15 of money on this; we came up with nothing* 16 Now, the bottom line here i3, when was this 17 now terminated? Well, I had retired, but I know it cer18 minated in 1977, and the clearly understood posture at 19 Monsanto was, as soon as a suitable replacement is found, 20 Monsanto shuts down promptly. This was done. It was done 21 the minute GI3 announced they were going to market with 22 dioctilthalate as a replacement for PCB in capacitors* 23 That shut the business down. 24 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) When did GE make that 25 announcement? - 203 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049573 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Well, I think I was 1977. 2 Q. All right. Are there any documents that state 3 that Monsanto wanted to get out of the PCB`s altogether, 4 including the manufacture of dielectric fluids containing 5 PCB* 3? 6 A. I don't know. 7 Q. And Monsanto was never a manufacturer of any 8 equipment that was used in dry transformers. That* s true, 9 isn't it? 10 A. Well, yes. I understand what you're asking, 11 and the answer is yes. We didn't supply components to dry- 12 type transformers. Maybe some resin or plastic that 13 Monsanto would make somewhere. I don't know. I can't be 14 categorical about this. To answer your question, the 15 answer is no. . 16 Q, And Monsanto didn't itself manufacture dry 17 transformers. 18 A. Oh, no. 19 Q. Looking at item seventeen on Exhibit A, have 20 you now discussed with us all of the effects of the special 21 undertaking agreements with GE, Westinghouse, and other PC3 22 dielectric users that is referenced in item seventeen? 23 A. Could I hear that back? 24 (Thereupon, the reporter read back the question.) 25 MR. BAUER* Object to the form of the ques- - 204 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049574 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 tion. Without having a specific question posed to him, and 2 with the potential of having his recollection refreshed 3 with documents, he may have other things to say; and, 4 therefore, the form of the question is objectionable. But 5 he's certainly welcome to give you anything else that he 6 can think of that he would have in response to such a broad 7 question. 8 MR. BRADLEY; Well, I am interested in the 9 specific things that you know and the specific things that 10 you might testify in relation to paragraph seventeen of 11 Exhibit A. 12 MR. BAUER: Tnat's my point. Without knowing 13 what the question is that is posed to him, without seeing 14 what documents we may use to refresh his recollection, he 15 can't tell you today what he'll testify about, necessarily, 16 but he* s welcome to give you his recollection and under 17 standing of everything that's within that context. 18 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Mr. Benignus, I can't expect 19 you to testify here today about things you don't know. So, 20 as you sit here today, tell me as best you know, have you 21 covered what you have meant by effects, what was meant by 22 effects of the special undertaking agreements referenced in 23 item seventeen of Exhibit A? 24 MR. BAUER: Well, I am going to object to that 25 question on the grounds that it's calling for speculation, - 205 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049575 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 so it's not his word, effect, since he didn't write the 2 document. 3 But you can answer, Mr. Benignus. 4 A. I am doing my best to answer it. I am giving 5 you the overall posture and framework of what went on. It 6 was upsetting to people, to our customers, I can say that. 7 That was an effect. It shook them up. They were afraid 8 they would be forced out of business. 9 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Any other effects that you 10 can think of? 11 A. Well, I'm still thinking about that one. And 12 as I already said, it's only the top people, you know, whom 13 I am referring to. As I told you already, we tried to find 14 a replacement. It didn't fly* It was up to GE. They did 15 find a replacement and had the economic facilities to go to 16 market. Now, that creates quite an economic situation in 17 the industry for people who don't have their clout. That 18 is an effect. 19 Westlnghouse, in transformers, also probably 20 in capacitors, power capacitors, may have started to use 21 something other than PCB at this period. I am not sure. I 22 know later on they did, in certain capacitors. It was 23 highly disruptive, and GE had developed, earlier, Pyranol 24 Two, using an epoxide with PCB, and now they came out with 25 epoxide added to the dioctilthalate, and patented it. And - 206 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049576 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 if you wanted to use it, well, you had to pay. Now, that 2 is very disruptive from what it had been. 3 I'm just trying to give you effects. I don't 4 know that they really -- S Q. Is it fair to say that Monsanto was worried 6 about potential lawsuits regarding its manufacture of PCD'a 7 and that was one of the reasons they required their 8 dielectric fluid customers to enter into the hold-harmless 9 agreements? 10 A. I can't say that. I wasn't in -- 11 Q. The hold-harmless agreements had a somewhat 12 disrupting affect on the dielectric fluid industry? 13 A. It would be disruptive to me if something I 14 had been using for years and years and years with no 15 trouble whatsoever, and all of a sudden I was told I can't 16 get it unless I signed a hold-harmless agreement. I mean, 17 what the hell. 18 Q. Do you know what Monsanto required its cus 19 tomers who entered into these hold-harmless agreements to 20 inform their customers about the existence of these 21 hold-harmless agreements? 22 A. I would certainly think so. There was no 23 restriction on this. In fact, as I already said, you said 24 their customers, meaning customers of the people who made 25 transformers, I guess you're talking about? -- - 207 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049577 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. Yes, 2 A. -- who might need makeup fluid and that sort 3 of thing. 4 In the past those people, whoever they may 5 have been, were at liberty to come to Monsanto and ask for 6 a pail, or whatever they wanted, a drum* No problem. Now, 7 all or a sudden, they can't do this. They* re going to have 8 to go to the transformer maker. So - 9 0. Do you know whether Monsanto required its 10 customers who entered into these hold-harmless agreements 11 to inform their customers of the existence of the hold12 harmless agreement? 13 A. I can't answer this categorically. 1 would 14 assume -- Well, I can't assume. 15 Q. Do you know whether General Electric informed 16 its customers of the existence of a hold-harmless agreement 17 between GE and Monsanto? 18 A. Again, I can't assume. 19 Q. All right. Have you seen any document that GE 20 had informed their customers of the existence of the hold21 harmless agreement they entered into with Monsanto? 22 A. I can* t recall that. 23 Q, All right. Didn't anybody ever tell you that 24 General Electric had informed their customers that they had 25 entered into a hold-harmless agreement with Monuanto - 208 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049578 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 regarding the purchase of PCB dielectric fluid manufactured 2 by Monsanto? 3 A, They had no reason to tell me this. I can't 4 really say, and I retired in '74, and we're talking about 5 almost this period in time, and I wasn't really into the 6 details of the business part of it. 7 Q. And do you know whether Monsanto required 8 Westinghouse to inform its customers that Westinghouse had 9 entered into a hold-harmless agreement with Monsanto 10 regarding Westinghouse's purchase of PCB dielectric fluid 11 from Monsanto? 12 A. I don't feel qualified to answer that. 13 Q. You j ust don* t. 14 A. I just don't. 15 Q. Have you ever seen any documents that would 16 indicate that Westinghouse had informed its customers that 17 it had entered into that type of hold-harmless agreement 18 with Monsanto? 19 A. Not that I recall. 20 Q. Did anyone from Westinghouse or within 21 Monsanto ever indicate to you that Westinghouse was telling 22 its customers that it had entered into the hold-harmless 23 agreement with Monsanto? 24 A. They didn't come to me to tell me that. 25 Q. Okay. Would you now look at number eighteen - 209 - COMCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049579 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 on Exhibit A? And I an interested in whether, in your 2 opinion, you have already covered that topic in the depo 3 sition testimony that you have already given. 4 MR. BAUER: By that you mean entirely? I 5 think he gave some testimony that bears on that topic, but 6 is your question whether he has anything else to say on 7 that topic? Specific questions may elicit more specific 8 answers than a general question. 9 But to the best of your ability, you may 10 answer that. 11 A. Okay. I was not active myself in this. I 12 will tell you my -- more than my impression, I think, what 13 I knew, because you don't want any conjecture. The ques 14 tion asked Monsanto's knowledge, information and/or belief 15 regarding the ability of its PCD customers to assess and 16 use information from Monsanto or other sources regarding 17 PCB and to determine for themselves what information to 18 present to their customers, when and how. , My answer is 19 yes* GE, WestingnousG, Allis-Chalmers, others, had the 20 ability to take the information, whatever Monsanto sub 21 mitted, and use it to pass on to their customers. 22 I'd say this particularly addresses transform 23 ers rather than capacitors, just in passing. We certainly 24 had impression and understanding. By we, not I, Monsanto, 25 that is what it's asking, Monsanto. You can get other - 210 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049580 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 people'.s Input, that people in the industry had ability to, 2 it says, assess and use information, and Monsanto certainly 3 supplied information to the transformer makers, and that 4 these transformer makers would determine for themselves 5 what information to present to their customers, when and 6 how. Well, they certainly did present information. I am 7 well aware of that. Now, when and how? That was at this 8 point in time in general, and the how, I guess written, 9 verbal. That is my best answer. 10 0. (by Mr. Bradley) All right. In fact, in 1971 11 Monsanto requested that GE and Westinghouse inform its 12 customers of the problems associated with PCB'si isn't that 13 true? 14 A. I would say yes. 15 Q. I take it that you are not aware of any con 16 tact with or inquiry from Nevada Power before the filing of 17 this lawsuit regarding PCB dielectric fluids. 18 A. That is correct. 19 Q. Okay. And I take it, also, you are not aware 20 of any inquiry to Nevada Power by Westinghouse, GE, or 21 Monsanto? 22 A. That is correct. 23 Q. I am going to show you Plaintiff's Exhibit 24 1118 and ask that you review that document for me. 25 A. What is the date of this thing? - 211 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049581 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. I will represent to you that Bill Papageorge 2 said the date was October 15, 1969. 3 A. Oh. Okay. 4 Q. nave you seen this document before today's 5 date? 6 A. I don't think so, 7 Q. All right. Looking at the first page of it, 8 it says that on 15 October the ad hoc committee, consisting 9 of Messrs. H. Ferrar, P, Hodges, B. John, W. Richard. B. 10 Wheeler issued a report summarizing the polychlorinated 11 biphenyl (PCB) pollution problems from the known available 12 information to date. That is what it says/ is that cor 13 rect? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Did you ever review a report prepared by those 16 individuals that summarize the polychlorinated biphenyl 17 pollution problem from the known available information? 13 A. Mot that I remember. 19 Q. Did you ever review any conclusions, informa 20 tion or recommendations that developed as a result of the 21 report prepared by those gentlemen? 22 A. Mot that Z remember. 23 Q. Would you turn, please, to pagefive? Under 24 Roman Humeral V-A, would you read that, please? 25 A. "Legal liability" -- - 212 CONCAHNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049582 COMPUTER AIDED TRAUSCRIPTION 1 Q. You can just read it to yoursei. 2 A. Oh,Excuse me. All right, 3 Q Under that section it says, "All customers 4 using these products have not been officially notified 5 about known effects, nor do our labels carry this informa 6 tion. " I read this correctly; is that correct? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Did anyone within Monsanto inform you that as 9 of, or on or about October 15, 1969, that Monsanto had 10 determined that all customers using PCD dielectric fluids 11 manufactured by Monsanto had not been officially notified 12 about their known effects, nor do Monsanto labels carry 13 that information? 14 A. Had not beenofficially notified. They got IS notified shortly after, when Monsanto said, "You're not 16 getting any," as far as the nonelectric was concerned. 17 That was pretty plain. They got the notice right there, 18 promptly. That is why I asked what was the date. 19 Now, whether this was contained on the label, 20 how are you going to get this on the labels? This is pre 21 posterous. I appreciate what somebody here was trying to 22 convey. There is no way you can put all of this about this 23 bird or that fish. 24 This, incidentally, is one -- I think you are 25 getting into the area -- As I see this document, I go - 213 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049583 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 through the whole thing, this is the turmoil it tnrew the 2 company into. These people are doing the best to respond 3 to that, and Monsanto's answer was, "Get out," and tney 4 did. 5 Q, Are you done now? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. I don* t want to interrupt you. 8 Okay. I take it, though, that nobody within 9 Monsanto informed you in late '69 that Monsanto believed 10 that its labels did not carry known information about the 11 effects of its PCB dielectric fluids? 12 MR. BADER: Objection. Asked and answered. 13 THE WITNESS* What? 14 MR. BAUER: I Baid, "Asked and answered." 15 A. Nobody informed me, no. 16 Q. (by Hr. Bradley) Okay. Would you now turn to 17 page -- 18 A. Well, may I again say that, if I understand 19 what is written here, how are you going to put this on a 20 label? 21 Q. You were not responsible for creating a label; 22 somebody else was. 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Would you now turn to page six, under Roman 25 Numeral VII, towards the bottom of the page. - 214 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049584 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A, Yes. 2 Q. "Involvement with other producers" is next to 3 Roman Numeral VIIt is that correct? 4 A. other producers of what? 5 0* Would you read the first full sentence under 6 that section, and read it out loud, if you would for the 7 court reporter. 8 A. "Although Monsanto is most probablyresponsi 9 ble for the U.S. contamination and jointly responsible with 10 HCL for the United Kingdom problem, we cannot accept 11 responsibility for the world." Oh, I begin to understand 12 it now. 13 Q. My question first is, what was MCL in 1969? 14 If you know. 13 A. Monsanto Chemical, Limited, whichrefers to 16 our operation in Ruabon, South Wales. They manufactured 17 PCB'S. 18 Q. Do you agree with the statement that in 1969 19 Monsanto was most probably responsible for the U.S. 20 contamination regarding PCB's? 21 MR. BAUER* Object to the form of the ques 22 tion. Lacks foundation. 23 A. I don't know why we're responsible for it. I 24 can't answer that. That is a legal question. Monsanto was 25 the solo producer of PCB in the United States, I think - 215 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049585 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 that is what they* re alluding to here, 2 Q, (by Hr. Bradley) And there are graphs at the 3 back of this exhibit, correct? 4 A. I believe so, 5 Q. Have you seen those graphsbefore today? 6 A. I don't think so. 7 Q. All right. Did you ever review any of the 9 data, raw data, generated by Industrial Bio-Test Laboratory 9 regarding their testing in the 1970's of Monsanto's Aroclor 10 products? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Did ever visit theIndustrial Bio-Test 13 Laboratories? 14 A. No. 15 Q, Did you know Dr, Paul Wright? 16 A. NO. 17 Q. I am now going to show you Plaintiff's Exhibit 18 1616 and ask whether you have ever seen that document 19 before. 20 A. Well, I would have to answer your question, 21 yea, I have seen this. I received a copy. 22 Q. And is that a true and accurate copy of the 23 document that you received? 24 A. I would say yes. I don't know that all of it 25 is here. Is it? Page two, I have. But, yeah, the answer - 216 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049586 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 is yes. 2 Q, And was it Monsanto's practice to maintain 3 copies of those types of records as part of its regularly4 conducted business? 5 A. Certainly did. 6 MR. BAUER: Well, this is a General Electric 7 document* 8 MR. BRADLEY: I understand what it is. I am 9 asking him questions about it. 10 MR. BAUER: Does Mr. Benignus know if he 11 received a copy of the General Electric trip report? 12 MR. BRADLEY: Well, Counsel, he's already said 13 that he did. 14 MR. BAUER: Well, he assumed that he did 15 because he looked and saw his name, Mr. Bradley* 16 MR. aRADLEYi Well, you are now putting words 17 in his mouth. He never said he assumed that he did. He 18 said that he did. 19 A. Let's say I did. 20 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) All right. 21 A. There is no reason why I couldn't have seen 22 it. 23 Q. The document summarizes a report that was held 24 between representatives of Monsanto and representatives of 25 General Electric; is that correct? - 217 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049587 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. It says at St* Louis, Missouri* I was at St. 2 Louis, Missouri. 3 Q. And do you know whether it was the regular 4 practice of attendees at meetings held within St. Louis to 5 prepare summaries of the information that was presented at 6 those meetings? 7 HR. BAUER* Object to the form. Vague aa to 8 who's preparing the memorandum, which company they were 9 representing, 10 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Go ahead and answer. 11 A. Somebody had written up or responded to or 12 recorded this kind of a meeting, certainly. 13 Q. All right. And may I see that for a moment, 14 please? 15 A. uh-huh. 16 Q. This document is a trip report of a trip to 17 St. Louis, January 21 and 22, 1970, and it indicates the 18 purpose of the trip was to meet with Monsanto Chemical 19 personnel for a discussion of environmental safety aspects 20 associated with these polychlorinated biphenyls and indi 21 cates that you wore one of a number of people present at 22 the meeting; is that correct? 23 A. I would say so. 24 Q. I don't suppose you would happen to remember 25 that particular meeting? - 218 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049588 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Let'3 see. I think, vaguely. There were many 2 meetings that came about, and I know those people came to 3 St. Louis. 4 Q. Do you recall at that meeting someone from 5 Monsanto Company informing all of the participants of the 6 information contained at number three under "Discussions 7 and Conclusions," which reads, "Monsanto Co. is the sole 8 North American supplier of polychlorinated biphenyl"? 9 MR. BAUER: Object to the form of the ques 10 tion. 11 A. It's a true statement. 12 . MR. BAUER: Mr. Benignus, that was not his 13 question. 14 Would you read back the question. 15 MR. BRADLEY: Well, do you have an objection? 16 MR. BAUER: Yes. I would like Mr. Benignus to 17 listen to the question, and answer. 18 A, Oh, I'm reading the three. 19 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Is number three accurate; 20 let me ask that. 21 A. Monsanto Company -- 22 MR. BAUER: That's fine, Ralph. 23 A. -- is -- was the sole North American manu 24 facturer of polychlorinated biphenyl. 25 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) That is not what number - 219 CONCANHON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049589 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 three says, though, is it? 2 A. No. It eays "supplier,** but that's what's 3 been implied here. 4 Q.Well, my question is -- 5 A. Now, wait a minute. We were not the sole 6 supplier, if you want to get nit-picking technical. 7 Q. I want to get nit-picking technical. Who else 8 was a supplier in North America? 9 A. And the time was 1970? 10 0. Yes. 11 A. This is before the electrical terminated. I 12 assume the nonelectrical terminated. Now, Monsanto was the 13 sole manufacturer, strictly speaking. Nit-picking, 14 Monsanto was not the sole supplier, as we already went 15 through this. Monsanto supplied to the transformer -- and 16 this is transformer, I would assume. In any event, it is 17 transformer area. Monsanto supplied, as we discussed, on a 18 restricted hold-harmles3 agreement to transformer makers 19 who qualified and signed the agreement. Now, they in turn, 20 under that agreement, as I recall, could themselves supply, 21 if needed, as a makeup, a top-off, if it's required. They 22 could supply that. That is what I am getting at. Maybe 23 that is beyond what this is saying. 24 Q, If they supplied it under the hold-harmless 25 agreement, if any of the companies supplied PCD*s, it would - 220 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049590 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 have been PCB's that had been manufactured by Monsanto; is 2 that correct? 3 A. Of course. 4 MR. BAUER; Object to the form of the ques 5 tion. Calls for speculation. 6 MR. BRADLEY: Did you get his answer? 7 MR. BAUER: Paul, don't forget to let me 8 object before you answer. Okay? Or at least give me a 9 chance to object before you answer. 10 THE WITNESS: Okay. 11 Q. (by Mr.Bradley) Iwill take thatexhibit 12 back. I am now going to show you Plaintiff's Exhibit 1145 13 and ask that you review that document. 14 A. Okay. 15 Q. And it would be helpful to me if I could come Id around and stand next to you for my questions. Is that all 17 right? 18 A. Sure. 19 Q. Have you seen this document before today'a 20 date? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And these are the minutes ofmeetings of 23 capacitor and transformer working groups of the ANSI 24 Committee C107 on use of askarel and askarel-aoaked 25 materials? - 221 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049591 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 MR. BAUER; Object to the form of the ques 2 tion. You're reading the front of the document, but it's 3 obvious from the fact that the second page is labeled 4 number seven that it is not the document. 5 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) 1145 begins with page six, 6 does it not? See the number six down there, Mr. Bonignus? 7 A. Yes. 8 q. And then it goes on to number seven, eight, 9 and nine. I don't know what part this was or what entire 10 complete document this was a part of, but does this appear 11 to you to be the minutes of a meeting in Chicago, Illinois, 12 Pebruary 8 and 9, 1972, of the capacitor and transformer 13 working groups? 14 A. That is correct. 15 Q. All right. And is this a true and accurate 16 copy of the minutes that you received regarding that 17 meeting? 10 A. well, it sure is -- I am sure it's correct. 19 Q. Well, was it Monsanto's -- 20 Do you have an objection? 21 MR. BAUER; Did you look at the d*tes on the 22 bottom of each page, Mr. Benignus? The last page is dated 23 December, 1971* 24 HR. BRADLEY; Off the record for a minute. 25 (Thereupon, a short discussion was had.) - 222 CONCANNOS 4 JAEGER WATER PCB-00049592 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTIOtl 1 MR. BRADLEY: Back on the record, 2 MR. BAUER: For the record, I have been 3 instructed not to object in ways that are not proper under 4 the Federal Rules of evidence. I would like to point out 5 for the record, Mr. Benignus is eighty-three years old, and 6 I would appreciate it if we all moved in a manner that 7 allowed Mr. Benignus not to make assumptions and to read 8 the document and study the document before he answers the 3 questions posed. 10 MR. BRADLEY: I move to strike the colloquy of 11 counsel and note for the record that during the last 12 portion of his comments he was looking at Mr. Benignus in 13 an effort to educate him and attempt to influence, in my 14 opinion, his testimony. 15 MR. BAUER: That's fine. Let's take a break. 16 Mr. Benignus, let's take a break, 17 (Thereupon, a short recess was taken.) 18 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Mr. Benignus, this particu 19 lar document begins at the bottom with page six, and it 20 goes to what appears at the bottom of the last page, which 21 says nine on iti is that correct? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And at the bottom of pagenine it says 24 December 15, 1971. That is correct, is it not? 25 A. Yes. - 223 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049593 COMPUTER AIDED TRAN SCRIPTION 1 Q. And on all of the other pages it says February 2 3 to 9, 1972, doesn't it? 3 A, I see that now, yes* 4 Q. Do you some the letters NEV 024431 is what is 5 on the first page; is that correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. I111 represent to you that that is the Bates 8 numbering system of Monsanto and that they provided those 9 materials to us and that it had that Bates number on it. 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Do you see the next Bates number? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Is it consecutive? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. la the next Bates number consecutive? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Is page ninea consecutive Bates number? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. All right. So, for whatever reason, the last 20 page of this document has a different date. Now, on page 21 eight there is a listing of information beginning with A 22 and going through H; is that correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. On page nine it begins with I; do you see 25 that? - 224 COHCAHNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049594 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. All right. Is there anything about this 3 document, other than the different date on the last page, 4 that would indicate to you that it's not a true and 5 accurate copy of the minutes of that meeting that you 6 testified earlier that you received? 7 HR, BAUER: Object to the form of the ques 8 tion. It's not a complete document, and object to the use 9 of an incomplete document. 10 But you can answer the question, Mr. Benignua. 11 A. I'm sorry there is this commotion over the 12 document. 13 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Other than the different 14 date, does it appear to be a true and accurate copy or the 15 minutes that you received? 16 MR. BAUER: Same objection. 17 A. I would say yeah, it appears. It would be 18 nice if the thing could be presented without all of the 19 controversy. 20 Q. (by Hr. Bradley) In fairness, we should say, 21 other than the portion on the first page, which has some 22 yellow markings on this particular copy, that wasn* t on 23 your copy, was it? 24 A, I don't know. 25 Q. All right. Now, mostly what I want to get at - 225 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049595 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 with tills document, do you see under the section entitled 2 "Members present" it has capacitor working groups and names 3 and affiliations? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Were the peoplelisted undercapacitor working 6 group, the members of the ANSI C107 working group? 7 A. Exactly* 8 MR. BAUER: Object to the form. Indefinite as 9 to time. 10 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) In February of 1972 were the 11 people listed under "Capacitor Working Group" in fact the 12 members of the capacitor working group of the ANSI 13 Committee C107? 14 A. Ye8. 15 Q. Were the affiliations of the those people in 16 Pebruary of '92 the same as are listed on the first page of 17 this exhibit? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. All right. So N.R. Clark wa3 a member of the 20 capacitor working group in Pebruary of '72, and that person 21 was with Universal Manufacturing Company? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. was Universal Manufacturing Company a company 24 who in 1972 purchased PCB dielectric fluid from Monsanto? 25 A. Yes. - 226 - C0NCANN0N & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049596 COMPUTER AIDED TRAMSCRIPTION 1 Q. And A,St D-o-t-y is another member, and that 2 person is affiliated with Mallory & Company? 3 A* Ye s 4 Q. Was Mallory & Company amanufacturer of trans 5 former capacitors in 1972? 6 A. Capacitors, yes. 7 Q. Right. And did they purchase PCBdielectric 8 fluid from Monsanto in *72? 9 A. I think Monsanto was supplying PCB* s to the 10 industry at that point in time. 11 Q. Okay. And S.G. Hammer in `72 was with McGraw- 12 Edison Power Systems; is that correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. 15 A. 16 Q. 17 in 1972? J.F. Kuzela was with Sangamo Electric Company? Yes. Was Sangamo also a manufacture of capacitora 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And R.D. McClain of Westinghouse was a member 20 o the capacitor working group? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And E.M. Moore was with theElectrical 23 Utilities Company? 24 A. Yes, 25 Q. what was theElectrical Utilities Company in - 227 - CO N CAN H OH S JAEGER WATER PCB-00049597 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 February of 1972? 2 A* They made capacitors. 3 Q. And A. Pozefsky was the chairman in February 4 of *72, and he was from GE? 5 A. Yea. 6 Q. And R.L. Rollins was a member of the coranit7 tee, and he was with the Jard Company? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q And was the Jard Company a company that manu 10 factured capacitors in February of 1972? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And it also lists the members of the trans 13 former working group of the ANSI Committee C107 in February 14 of 1972; is chat correct? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And on that date W.S. Grogan was a member, and 17 that person was with Allis-Chaimers? 18 A. I don* t know Grogan. 19 Q. The document at least indicates that person 20 was with Allis-Chalmers. 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And Allis-Chalmers was a manufacturer of 23 transformers in February of 1972? 24 A. Yes. I can say yes. 25 Q. And H.A. Onishi from Commonwealth Edison was a - 228 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049598 COMPOTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 member ? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And E.L. Raab, R-a-a-b, was chairman of the 4 transformer working group* and he was from GE? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And W.C. Reinhardt was amember* and he was 7 from Central Moloney Transformer Division? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And they weremanufacturers* aswell* Central 10 Moloney Transformer Division? 11 A. He're getting so detailed and so on and so 12 forth here* I am going to say this: Moloney went out of 13 the transformer-naking business at some point in time that 14 I cannot pinpoint. You*re asking* are they manufacturing 15 transformers. Maybe yes, maybe no. I am telling you they 16 went out of the business* and I don't know. 17 Q. All right. At some point they were a manu 18 facturer ? 19 A. Yes. At some point* approximating this period 20 of time* they were. 21 Q. Okay. And A.L. Pickley. 22 A. Rickley. 23 Q. I'm sorry. Rickley* from DobleEngineering? 24 A. Right. 25 Q. And was Doble Engineering manufacturing trana- - 229 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049599 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION ' ------------------ 1 1 formers? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Do you know what service they were providing 4 in February of '72? 5 A. Yes. Through the years, Doble Engineering 6 provided very fine, very useful data, information, par 7 ticularly in the transformer area, as to how to maintain 8 askarel transformers, the character of transformer askarel, 9 and they analyzed transformers for the condition of the 10 fluid on behalf of utilities and other people. They 11 provided a very fine service. 12 Q. All right. And itindicates that W.E. 13 Shoulders appeared as a representative for an F.P. -- 14 A. Langefeld. 15 Q. All right. And that person was from Union id Electric Company? 17 A. Yes. St. Louis. 18 q. And was Union Electric Company amanufacturer 19 of transformers in '72? 20 A. Ho, a utility in St. Louis. 21 Q. All right. And T.K. Sloat was amember of the 22 transformer working group, and he was from Westinghouse? 23 A. Right. 24 Q. All right. I am now going toshow you 25 Plaintiff's Exhibit 1185 and ask you to review that for me, - 230 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049600 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 pi ease. 2 A. That1s ray name. 3 Q. 4 ment. 5 All right. Would you now review that docu On the record, while your reviewing that, I am 6 not going to ask you specific questions about the contents, 7 but just what you're familiar with it and whether it's a 6 true and accurate copy. 9 A. Thank you. 10 Q. You* re welcome. 11 A. Okay. 12 Q. Have you seen that document before? 13 A. Yea. 14 Q. Is that adocument that you authored? 15 A. Not unilaterally, by a long shot. 16 Q. old you preparethe document? 17 A. My name is on it. I would assume that I pre 18 pared it, yes. 19 q. And you prepared that on or about January 26th 20 of 1970? 21 A. That's what it says. 22 Q. And at the top of the first page it says "The 23 PCB-Pollution Problem, January 21 and 22, 1970, St. Louis 24 Meeting With General Electric Co.;" is that correct? 25 A. Yes. - 231 - CONCANWON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049601 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. Do you recall attending a meeting with General 2 Electric Company in January of 1970 regarding the PCB- 3 pollution problem? 4 MR. BAUERt Objection. Asked and answered. 5 A. Specifically, at the moment, I don't recall, 6 but -- 7 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) All right. And was it 8 Monsanto's practice to generate minutes of the meetings 9 that it held with General Electric in January of 1970 10 regarding meetings it held with them? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And did Monsanto maintain copies of those 13 minutes as part of its regularly-conducted business? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And is this a true and accurate copy of the 16 minutes that you prepared regarding that meeting? 17 A. Yes, and as I told you, I didn't prepare all 18 of this myself. 19 Q. All right. Then I should say it's a true and 20 accurate copy of the document you put together. 21 A. Right. 22 Q. All right. I am now going to show you Plain 23 tiff's Exhibit 1641. And let's hand it to your attorney 24 first. 25 A. All right. - 232 - COMCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049602 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. And when he's done reviewing it, you can re 2 view it, please. 3 A. Okay. 4 Q. This is anOctober 29, 1971 letter to A.M. 5 Salazar who is secretary of ANSI Committee C107? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. At thebottom itsays, "Best regards, P.G. 8 Benignus." Do you recall whether you authored that docu 9 ment? 10 A. Yes, I did. 11 Q. And is this a true and accurate copy of the 12 document you authored on or about October 29, 1971? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And did you author that document on or about 15 the time of your making a recommendation regarding the 16 appointments to head subcommittees of C107? 17 A. Yes. 10 Q. And was it Monsanto's regular practice to keep 19 copies of letters of that sort as part of its regularly20 conducted business? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And did Monsantomaintain that as part of its 23 regularly-conducted business? 24 A. Yes. 25 q I am now going to show youPlaintiff's Exhibit - 233 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049603 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 1158, and I will first hand it to your attorney. 2 Have you had a chance to review that document? 3 A. NO. 4 0. All right. Take your time, and let me know 5 when you have completed your review. 6 I'd like to make a suggestion. The way we've 7 handled dealing with documents and witnesses authenticating 8 them and addressing hearsay issues in the past with Mr. 9 Featherstone was to have me provide a set of documents, and 10 the witness then would go off with the attorney and review 11 the entire set, and when the review was completed then we'd 12 all reassemble. That seemed to be an efficient way of 13 handling it, and I would like to suggest that with this 14 witness and these sets of documents. 15 MR. BADER: That's fine with me. 16 MR. BRADLEY: All right. Off the record. 17 (Thereupon, a short recess was taken.) 18 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) I am now showing you 19 Plaintiff's Exhibit 1158. Have you had a chance to review 20 that document? 21 A. Yes, I think so. 22 Q. Is this a document written by A.N. Salazar 23 regarding minutes of a February 23rd 1971 committee on use 24 and disposal of askarel? 25 A. That is what I interpret at this time. - 234 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049604 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. Have you seen this document before? 2 A. I don*t remember specifically, but that is 3 what it is. 4 Q. Do you happen to Know whether this is a true 5 and accurate copy of the minutes prepared by Mr. Salazar? 6 A. I certainly would think so, 7 Q. Was it the practice of the members of the 8 committee on the use and disposal of askarel to prepare 9 minutes of the meetings that they held in February of 1971? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And did Monsanto maintain copies of those 12 minutes as part of its regularly-conducted business? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And it indicates which members were present 15 and their affiliations; is that correct? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. And it indicates what others werepresent, 18 along with their affiliations; is that correct? 19 A. Right. 20 Q. I am now going to show you Plaintiff'e Exhibit 21 1159. You reviewed this document before with your attor 22 ney; is that correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Is this a February 10, 1971 letter from A.M. 25 Salazar to participants in the proposed ANSI committee on - 235 COHCANNOH & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049605 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 aakarel In electrical equipment? 2 A. That is what it says. 3 Q. Have you seen the document before? 4 A. I would think so. 5 Q. Is this a true and accurate copy of the 6 document that you saw before? 7 A. Seems to me it is* 8 Q. All right. And back in Pebruary of *71/ do 9 you know whether it was the regular practice of the pro 10 posed participants in the ANSI committee on askarel to 11 write confirming letters regarding their telephone conver 12 sations? 13 A. Yes. 14 g. And did Monsanto maintain a copy of this 13 letter as part of its regularly-conducted business? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. I am now showing you Plaintiff's Exhibit 1163. 18 You reviewed this document with your attorney? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Is this a document you have seen before? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. It's dated November 18th, 1970, and its titled 23 "PCB Pollution, Proposed ANSI Committee Suggested 24 Composition;* is that correct? 25 A, That is the title, yes. - 236 COHCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049606 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. Do you know who prepared this document? 2 A. This is not my handwriting on here, if this is 3 significant, but otherwise it's a list of people, and if I 4 am not mistaken, it's a list that I -- I think it's a list 5 that I prepared, although some of these people I am not 6 acquainted with. 7 Q. All right. And except for the handwriting on 8 the first page of that exhibit, is this a true and accurate 9 copy of the list that you saw back around November 18, 1970 10 regarding the proposed ANSI committee suggested composi 11 tion? 12 A. 13 Q. I would think so, yes. I think so. And do you know whether this list was 14 generated at or about the time that there were suggestions 15 being made on the composition of the ANSI committee? 16 A. Yes. 17 q. And was the document generated as part of 18 Monsanto13 regularly-conducted business? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And was it maintained within Monsanto's 21 regularly conducted business? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. I am now going to show you Plaintiff's Exhibit 24 1160. You reviewed that document before with your attor 25 ney ? - 237 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049607 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Yes. 2 Q* It* s entitle, "Chronological Steps With 3 Respect to Initiation of an American National Standards 4 Committee on Askarel Used in Electrical Equipment}" is that 5 correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay, Have you seen thisdocument before? 8 A. It is not exactly clear to me. 9 Q. You don't know whether you have seen it 10 before? 11 A. No, I don't. I am not sure that I have seen 12 this one before, 13 Q. Okay. I am now going to show you Plaintiff's 14 Exhibit 1175. That also is a document you have reviewed 15 with your attorney} is that correct? 1 <5 A. Yes. 17 0. And that is entitled "SteeringCommittee of 18 ANSI C107," and indicates that you are the chairman from 19 Monsanto? 20 A, Yes. 21 Q. And it indicates the names of different indi22 viduals and their affiliations; is that correct? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. And the designation next to the individuals' 25 names might either be TR, TR & C, or just plain C; is that - 238 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049608 COMPUTES AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 correct? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Would the TR indicate that those individuals 4 are members of the transformer subcommittee of the ANSI 5 C107? 6 A. Their interest is in transformers. Where it 7 says TR 6 C, that means transformer and capacitor. 8 Q. Okay. Is this a document that you 3aw before 9 today? 10 A. Yes, I would think so. 11 Q. is this a true and accurate copy of the 12 document you saw before today1s date that was the same as 13 Plaintiff's Exhibit 1175? 14 A. Appears to be. 15 Q. And is this a document that was prepared on or 16 about the date, or --Excuse me. Do you know the date that 17 it was prepared? 18 A. No, I don't. I'm looking for it. 19 Q. Can you tell me whether it was prepared on or 20 about the time that you had obtained the names of the 21 different individuals listed on the exhibit? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And was it -- Was this document prepared as 24 part of Monsanto's regularly-conducted business? 25 A. I don1t think Monsanto prepared this. - 239 COMCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049609 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. All right. Who do you think prepared it? 2 A. I don't know. 3 Q. Is this a document that Monsanto maintained 4 within the course of its regularly-conducted business? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. I am now going to show you Plaintiff's Exhibit 7 1149, and I think, because I have a telephone call, I am 8 going to come back to it. Gave me two minutes? 9 A. Sure. 10 (Thereupon, a short recess was taken.) 11 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Is this a document that you 12 have seen before? 13 A. I am trying to answer your question. This was 14 May of 1972, and I want to point out something to you: I 15 retired in '74. At this point in time I was sort of on the 16 sidelines, and I don't know if X am even mentioned on this 17 thing. The committee had been formed, as it shows. There 18 was no need to show who the steering chairman wa3, and -- 19 well, here, "Others Present," it says I was present. So I 20 was present at whatever generated this. Now, you* re asking 21 if I ever saw this. I don't recall specifically. Evident 22 ly Salazar wrote this. I was -- 23 Q. Okay. Let me ask a question, then. In May of 24 1972 -- 25 A. Uh-huh. - 240 C0NCANH0N & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049610 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q -- were the 3ame members of the capacitor 2 working group as of February 8 or 9, 1972, sometime members 3 of the capacitor working group on May 25, 1972? 4 A. Yes. S Q. And in addition, there was an H.A. Onishi of 6 Commonwealth Edison who was a member in May of '72; is that 7 correct? 8 A. 9 Q, It so states. All right. And apparently in May of *72, 10 Onishi went from the transformer working group to the 11 capacitor working group; is that correct? 12 A. That is what it says. 13 Q, All right. And were the members of the trans 14 former working group in May of '72 the Bame as the members 15 of the transformer working group in February of *72? 16 A. It seems to be. 17 Q. It doesn't have T.K. Sloat of Westinghouse 18 listed -- Is that correct? -- as a member in '72? 19 MR. BAUERi Object to the form. The designa 20 tion is "Members Present." 21 Q. (by Hr. Bradley) Well, do you know if in May 22 of '72 Sloat was still a member of the transformer working 23 group? 24 A. Oh, sure. Yes. 25 Q. And that is all I have relative to thiB set of - 241 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049611 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 documents. 2 Why don't we take our lunch; and what I am 3 going to do is to have another set of documents here so 4 that when you're finished with your lunch period you can 5 come back and review some more, and I will have them 6 sitting right here where Mr* Benignus sits. 7 MR. BAUER: Fine. 8 (Thereupon, a luncheon recess wa3 taken.) 9 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Mr. Benignus, have you had 10 an opportunity to review Plaintiff's Exhibit 13937 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And is this a document that you authored? 13 A. Yes, 14 Q. And this particular copy has some yellow high 15 lighting and orange highlighting; is that correct? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. The one you prepared didn't have the high 18 lighting and didn't have the -- on the second page it 19 didn't have the handwriting that says "Ex i 1349" at the 20 bottom; is that correct? 21 A. Yen. 22 Q, And this is a December 3rd, 1971 memo that you 23 wrote to W.R. Richard regarding a meeting with Westinghouse 24 at St. Louis, Thursday, December 16, 1971; is that correct? 25 A. Yes. - 242 CONCAMMOM & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049612 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. And did you prepare that document at or about 2 the time that you learned of the information that is con 3 tained in the document? 4 A* Yes. 5 Q And is that a document that ~ the type of 6 document that Monsanto generates as part of its regular 7 business activity? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And was this document kept within Monsanto as 10 part of its regularly-conducted business? 11 A, Yes. 12 Q. Have you had a chance to review Plaintiff's 13 Exhibit 867? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q is this a document that you authored? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. is this a true and accurate copy of the docu 18 ment that you authored on August 4, 1971? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. is this a document that youprepared shortly 21 after receipt of HR 10085# which is referenced in the 22 document? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Is this document the type of document that 25 Monsanto generated as part of its regular business - 243 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049613 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 activity? 2 A. Monsanto didn't generate it. I was merely 3 passing this attachment, I was passing that on to Bergen. 4 It was a transmittal. 5 Q. And it was normal within Monsanto for you to 6 transmit that sort of information? 7 A. Oh, yea. 8 Q. And did Monsanto maintain that document as 9 part of it's regularly-conducted business? 10 A. I don't know whether they did or they didn't, 11 but I transmitted it to Bergen. 12 Q. Would you expect this letter to be maintained 13 at Monsanto? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Have you had a chance to review Plaintiff's 16 Exhibit 336? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Is this a copy of a letter to you dated March 19 22, 197 2? 20 A. 21 Q, 22 A * 23 Q. 24 date? 25 A. Yes. And the author is T. K-a-t-a-y-a-m-a. Ye s. And have you seen this document before today's Yes. - 244 - COHCAHNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049614 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. Is this a true and accurate copy of the letter 2 sent by Hr. Katayama to you on March 22nd, 1972? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Did Mr. Katayama write that letter in response 5 to questions you presented in a letter to him March 20th, 6 197 2? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And was it Monsanto'sregular practice to 9 maintain copies of letters of this sort as part of its 10 regularly-conducted business? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And did Monsanto maintain this document as 13 part of its regularly-conducted business? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Haveyou had chance to review Plaintiff's 16 Exhibit 1618? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. What is that? 19 A. Well, that is the proper handling of Aroclor 20 and their mixtures in the electrical industry. 21 Q. And is that a document you authored on or 22 about May 1, 1956? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And that a true and accurate copy or the 25 document you wrote on that date? - 245 COHCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049615 COMPUTER AIDED TRAHSCRIPTION 1 A* Yea. 2 Q. And was it a part of Monsanto's regular busi 3 ness to generate documents of that sort? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And was that document maintained aa part of 6 Monsanto'8 regularly-conducted business? 7 A. Yea. e Q. Have you had a chance to review Plaintiff's 9 Exhibit 1190? 10 A. Yes. n Q. Is that a document you have seen before 12 today's date? 13 A. I don't recall this one. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. I don't recall this. 16 MR. BRADLEY: Off the record for a moment. 17 (Thereupon, a short colloquy was had.) 18 MR. BRADLEY: Back on the record. The 19 attorneys have agreed that the exhibits that Mr. Benignus 20 is referring tor all of the exhibits that come up during 21 Mr. Benignus' deposition, will not go with the court 22 reporter. 23 MR. BAUER: At least all of the ones that have 24 been marked Plaintiff'9 exhibits. We have not gotten any 25 documents yet that that is not true of. - 246 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049616 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 HR, BRADLEY: And you won't. 2 MR. BAUER: Okay. 3 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Younow have before you 4 Plaintiff's Exhibit 292. Is that a document that you have 5 seen before? 6 A. I don't recall it, 7 Q. You now have before you Plaintiff's Exhibit 8 1377. Is that a document you have seen before? 9 First, have you had a chance to talk with your 10 lawyer about this exhibit? 11 A. This? 12 Q. Yea. 13 A* Yes. 14 0. Okay. 15 A. Now, December, 1971, at St. Louis, meeting, 16 Monsanto, on Inerteen. It was a meeting with Westinghouse, 17 so Wcstinghouse people and Monsanto people at the meeting. 18 NR. BRADLEY: All right. I'm sorry. Would 19 you read back the question and the answer, please? 20 (Thereupon, the reporter read back a portion of the 21 testimony.) 22 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Haveyou seen this document 23 before? 24 A. I really don't recall it, but I certainly know 25 the meeting. - 247 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049617 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. I want you to now look at the last page of the 2 exhibit. It Indicates production and sales of PCB* s by 3 Monsanto Industrial Chemicals Company for the years 1960 to 4 1971i is that correct? 5 A. That'a what it says. 6 Q. And do you recall those figures being dis 7 cussed at the meeting that was held December 16? 1971 at 8 St* Louis with Monsanto people and Westinghouse people? 9 A. I think they were. Doesn* t it say here 10 something about how much Monsanto makes? 11 Q. My question was whether you recall those 12 figures being discussed at the meeting. 13 A. Specifically, no. 14 0. do you recall whether in1966Monsanto was 15 producing roughly thirty-two thousand nine hundred twenty16 five -- 17 A. Million. Mo. This is in short tons. 18 Q. Short tons of PCB's? 19 A. No. I never reported it in short tons. That 20 is why I know this isn* t mine. But I have no reason for 21 challenging it. 22 Q. And it shows an increase between -- There was 23 an increase between *66 and *67 in total U. S. production 24 in total PCB's by Monsanto/ is that true? 25 MR. BAUER* Object to the form of the ques- - 248 COMCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049618 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 tion. You pointed your finger at the document. Now, are 2 you asking him whether that's what the document shows, or 3 what his recollection is? 4 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) My question didn't have 5 anything to do with the document* My question is* Did 6 Monsanto's production of PCB's increase between 1966 and 7 1967. 8 A. I have no recollection of whether it did or it 9 didn* t. 10 0. Can you tell who authored this document? 11 A. No, I can't, not from what's here. As I said, 12 this is a report in 3hort tons; it's not my figure. I 13 don* t know who authored this. 14 Q. And you have no memory of having seen the 15 document before? 16 MR. BAUERi Objection. Asked and answered. 17 A. No, I don't remember this. 18 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Okay. Plaintiff's Exhibit 19 418 is now in front of you. Is this a document you have 20 seen before? 21 A. You mean reviewed? 22 Q. No, I don't mean you reviewed it with your 23 attorney. I mean before today's date. 24 A. Before today's date, I'd say no. I looked at 25 this. There is no reason why I needed to. And I never saw - 249 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049619 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 this before. 2 Q. All right. 3 MR. BAUERi Off the record a second. 4 (Thereupon, a short colloquy was had.) 5 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Are there any portions of 6 Plaintiffs Exhibit 418 that you have seen before today's 7 date? 8 A. I have not seen this, but I sure agree with 9 it. 10 Q. By "this,* you1re referring to the February 11 18th, 1970 letter by Donald Olson? * 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Are there any portions of the exhibit that you 14 have seen before today* s date? 15 A. No. 16 Q. All right. Let's move on to another exhibit, 17 then. 18 A. Did I get a copy of that? Well, I wasn't 19 called on to do anything, and it wasn't in my area. 20 Q. I am now snowing you Plaintiff's Exhibit 1335. 21 Is that a document you've seen before today's date? 22 A. I must have received a copy of it, so I would 23 say yes. 24 Q. Is this a true and accurate copy of the letter 25 W.B. Papageorge wrote on July 6, 1970 to Hr. Wilburn that - 250 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049620 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Nad you receiving a blind carbon copy? 2 A. I would say so, that it is. 3 Q. And is this a documant that appears to have 4 been written in response to the reading or' a process 5 specification entitled "Disposition of Scrap Inerteen and 6 Inerteen Contaminated Materials"? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And was it Monsanto* s practice to generate 9 documents of this sort as part of its regularly-conducted 10 business? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And was this document maintained at Monsanto 13 as part of its regularly-conducted business? 14 A. Seems to be, yes. 15 Q. You now have in front of you Plaintiff's 16 Exhibit 1202. Is that a document you have seen before 17 today* s date? 18 A. I wrote it. 19 Q. Is this a true and accurate copy of the docu 20 ment you wrote on June 9th, 1970 to Mr. Edward Raab at 21 General Electric? 22 A. Yes. 23 0. Did you write this letter on or about the time 24 that Mr. Raab posed some questions to you in a June letter? 25 A. Yes, - 251 CONCAHNON 6 JAEGER WATER PCB-00049621 COMPUTER AIDED TRAMSCRIPTIQH 1 0, And did you generate this document as part of 2 Monsanto's regularly-conducted business? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Was the document maintained as part of 5 Monsanto's regularly-conducted business? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. You now have beforeyou Plaintiff'sExhibit 8 424. Is that a document you have seen before today? 9 A. I don* t recall this one, no. 10 Q. All right. You now have in front of you 11 Plaintiff's Exhibit 1637. Is that a document you have seen 12 before today's date? 13 A. I don* t think so. Richard wrote it out, copy 14 to Monsanto. I don't recall it. It was nothing I did any 15 thing with. Yeah. Dr. Richard wrote this thing, but 16 copies went, and it shows I got a copy. I don't recall it, 17 and I didn't do anything about it. 18 Q. So you wouldn* t know whether this is a true 19 and accurate copy? 20 A. Oh, I would think it is. I don't know why it 21 wouldn't be. 22 Q, is this a document that was prepared regarding 23 a meeting that was held March 6th, 1969 with Industrial 24 Bio-Test Laboratories? 25 A. That's what it says. - 252 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049622 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. And was it Monsanto's practice to generate 2 notes of meetings such as this as part of its regularly3 conducted business? 4 A. Yes. A meeting that was held, it would be 5 true, yes. 6 Q. And was this document maintained at Monsanto 7 as part of its regularly-conducted business? 8 A. Seems as though it would. 9 MR. BRADLEYi Off the record for a moment. 10 (Thereupon, a short colloquy was had.) 11 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Mr. Benignus, you have in 12 front of you plaintiff's Exhibit 1642. Is that a docu 13 ment you have seen before today's date? 14 A. I don't recall it. 15 Q. Who is M.E. Scoville? 16 A. ile was at General Electric at Hudson Falls, 17 New York. I knew him well. 18 Q. And now I am showing you Plaintiff's Exhibit 19 1617. Is this the cover sheet and index and chapter nine 20 of a document you prepared entitled, "The Proper Handling 21 of Acoclors and Their Mixtures in the Electrical Industry"? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And dated 12-1-54? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Is this a true and accurate copy of the cover - 253 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049623 COMPUTER AIDED TRADSCRIPTION 1 page, index page and chapter nine of the document that you 2 prepared in 1954? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Did you prepare this document as part of the 5 regularly*-conducted business activities at Monsanto? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Was this document maintained as part of the 8 regularly--conducted business at Monsanto? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. I am now showing you Plaintiff's Exhibit 1254. 11 Is this a document you have seen before? 12 X'q sorry. Let me go back to Plaintiff's 13 Exhibit 1617. (fas this document prepared on or about the 14 time that you collected the information that is presented 15 in chapter nine? Did you understand my question? 16 A. I believe I did. 17 0. At some point you collected information to 1 Q prepare this particular report, correct? 19 A. Yes. This was the first printing, yea. We 20 collected information. 21 Q. And then after you collected the information, 22 you prepared this document? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. The document was prepared shortly after you 25 gathered the information? - 254 CONCAMHON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049624 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. All right. Plaintiff's Exhibit 1254, is that 3 a document you have seen before today? 4 A. I think so. 5 Q. This is a November 4th, 1971 letter from Bill 6 Papageorge to Mr. Raab? 7 A. Yes. 8 0. And it shows you receiving a copy? 9 A. Yes. 10 0. Is this a true and accurate copy of the letter 11 that Hr. Papageorge wrote to Mr. Raab? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And do you recall Mr. Raab asking you some 14 questions in September or October of 1971? 15 A. I don't recallthat, but no doubt that 16 transpired, because this is the response to that. 17 Q. Okay. And this apparently is a response to 18 questions posed to you by Mr. Raab? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And was this document generated as part of 21 Monsanto's regularly-conducted business? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Was itmaintained within Monsanto as part of 24 its regularly-conducted business? 25 A. Yes. - 255 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049625 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. I am now snowing you Plaintiff's Exhibit 1205. 2 Have you seen that document before today* s date? 3 A. No. No. I have seen data in here. It's 4 familiar, but I haven't seen this* There is no reason why 5 I should, I guess. 6 Q. All right. I am now showing you Plaintiff's 7 Exhibit 1432. Is that a document you have seen before 8 today? 9 A. I'd say no. 10 0. All right. 11 A. I'd say no. 12 Q. Did you see that your name was referenced here 13 in the document? 14 A* I just now noticed this, yes. IS MR. BAUERj Is tnat a pending question? 16 MR. BRADLEYt That was a question and that was 17 an answer. 18 MR. BAUERj So there is no pending question? 19 MR. BRADLEY: There is no pending question. 20 MR. BAUER: Okay. 21 A. Oh. Notice this is action, Benignus slash 22 Bryant. Well, I was informed, probably. I don't know that 23 I was informed. Bryant, in a sense, was with me, and this 24 is really Bryant, not me. It just so happens I'm -- I had 25 nothing to do with this document. - 256 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049626 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. And you have never seen it before today's 2 date? 3 A. NO. 4 Q. I am now showing you Plaintiff's Exhibit 1575. 5 Is this a document you saw before today? 6 A. It shows that I received a copy of it. I 7 would say I did receive a copy of it. 8 Q. And this is a May 13th, 1969 document regard 9 ing Aroclor analysis in pesticide residues? 10 A. Oh, yes. Yes. 11 Q. And apparently it was in response to a visit 12 of Professor Widmark, of University of Stockholm, in May of 13 '697 is that correct? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q, Is this a true and accurate copy of the docu 16 ment you saw on or about May 13th, 1969? 17 A. I would say yes. 1 8 Q. And was this document generated as part of the 19 regular business activity at Monsanto? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And was it maintained in Monsanto's files as 22 part of its regularly-conducted business? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q, I am now showing you Plaintiff's Exhibit 1621. 25 Have you seen that document before today? - 257 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049627 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. I wrote it. 2 Q. And you wrote this on orabout December 5th, 3 196 9? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Did you write it in response to learning at a 6 meeting roughly within a week before you wrote it that a 7 request had not received support? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Is this a true and accurate copy of the letter 10 you wrote December 5th, 1969? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Did you generate this letteras part of 13 Monsanto's regularly-conducted business? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And did Monsanto maintain a copy of this as 16 part of its regularly-conducted business? 17 A. Yes. 1 8 Q. Now in front of you is Plaintiff's Exhibit 81. 19 Is this a document you have seen before today* s date? 20 A. I recall this. I don't know that I got -- I 21 know what this refers to. I don't know that I got a copy 22 of this. 23 Q. The first two pages are a retyped version, for 24 clarity, of what appears on the third page. Do you recall 25 whether you received the third page of that particular - 258 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049628 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 exhibit? 2 A. I can't recall. I recall what was going on. 3 Q. Right. Well# ifyou don* t recall receiving 4 the exhibit, then I won't ask you questions about it. 5 A. Okay. 6 Q. You now have infront of you Plaintiff's 7 Exhibit 1403. Is that a document you saw before today? 8 A. I would say yes; I received a copy of this. 9 It was by Wheeler. That is his signature. 10 Q. And does this appear to be a letter in re 11 sponse to a July 19# 1956 request for toxicity information 12 addressed to Mr. Wheeler? 13 A. Yea. 14 Q. And is this a true and accurate copy of the 15 letter from Mr. Wheeler to Mr. Speicher? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Is this a document that was generated as part 18 of Monsanto's regular business activity? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. (fas the documentmaintained withinMonsanto's 21 files as part of its regularly-conducted business? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Now I'm going to show youPlaintiff's Exhibit 24 1475. Is this a document you have seen before today? 25 A. No. I don't recall this. - 259 - COMCANHON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049629 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. I am now going to show if you Plaintiff's 2 Exhibit 431. Is that a document you have seen before 3 today ? 4 A. I don't recall this. 5 Q. Is this Monsanto -- 6 A. Wait a minute. I was copied in here, so I 7 received it, but I don't recall it. 8 Q. Is this Monsanto's letterhead in the top 9 left-hand corner? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Do you see the name of Dr. Richard down at the 12 bottom? 13 A. Oh, yes. Here it is, and Bill R. here, and 14 here's Bill Richard. 15 Q. And who was Bill Richard? 16 A. He was the director of research in our area, 17 in the fluids and electrical industry area. 18 Q. Do you see the other people here as receiving 19 copies? 20 A. 21 Q. 22 of 196 8? Yes. Were they allMonsanto employees inDecember 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. I am now going to show youPlaintiff's Exhibit 25 1656. Is this a document you have seen before today? - 260 - COHCANNOH & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049630 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Yes* Yes. It was to me. 47* Q. Is this a document that you refer to as a call 3 report? 4 A. 5 Q. Yes. And was it essentially the memorialization of 6 a telephone call of 7-22-1970# between Bill Papageorge and 7 Don McClain, Kin Tison, and Lou Scheof? 8 A. I'd have to say yes, that is what it says. 9 This is Randall Graham's sales report. 10 Q. All right. And is this a true and accurate 11 copy of the call report that you received on or about July 12 22, 1970? 13 A. . Yes. 14 Q. Was this the type or document that Monsanto 15 generated as pact of its regularly-conducted business? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Was this copy maintained within Monsanto's 18 files as part of its regularly-conducted business? 19 A. Ye s. 20 0. I am now showing you Plaintiff's Exhibit 1653. 21 Is this a document you have seen before today? 22 A. Well, this is primarily nonelectrical. 23 Q. So is it a document you have seen before 24 today? 25 A, I don* t think so. - 261 - COSICANMON JAEGER WATER PCB-00049631 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. All right. I am now Bhowing you Plaintiff's 2 Exhibit 1456. Is this a document you have seen before 3 today? 4 A. I can hardly see it* 5 Q. I think it says, "Organic Chemical Division" 6 -- I can* t read the rest of it on the front page, but I see 7 down here I think it says, "Monsanto." 8 A. Yea. No, I have not seen this before. This 9 is a plant -- 10 Q. A plant manual? Operations manual? 11 A. Wait a minute. Yes. Where else would there 12 be chlorine gas but in the plant. "Hold your breath. Go 13 across the wind." That has something to do with the plant. 14 I don't have anything to do with this. 15 q, All right. I am going to she you Plaintiff's 16 Exhibit 1552 and ask if you have seen that document before 17 today. 18 A. Oh, this is the agenda, and somebody called on 19 us. 20 Q. This is an agenda of a PCS effluent standards 21 meeting held February 28th, 1974? 22 A. Well, I retired in '74. 23 Q. You retired in --> 24 A. October. 25 Q. October of '74. - 262 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049632 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Yes. This was a meeting. I don't know if I 2 was there or not. 3 Q. Do you recall seeing this document before? 4 A. I can't specifically recall that. I was on my 5 way out the door. 6 Q. Okay. I am now showing you Plaintiff's 7 Exhibit 1515/ and my question is whether you have seen the 8 document before today. 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. This is a letter from J.G. Bryant to Lou 11 Shoaff at Westinghouse, dated April 24th, 1970? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Is this a true and accurate copy of the letter 14 sent that date from Mr. Bryant to Mr. Shoaff? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. was this letter a memorialization of the con 17 tents of a telephone call held between the two? 18 A. I would say yes. 19 Q. And was this document generated as part of 20 Monsanto's regularly-conducted business? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Has itmaintained in the files of Monsanto as 23 part of Monsanto'a regularly-conducted business? 24 A. Yes. 25 MR, BRADLEY* Let's take a break, and I will - 263 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049633 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 give you the last pile of documents to review. Off the 2 record. 3 (Thereupon, a short recess was taken.) 4 Q, (by Mr. Bradloy) Back on the record. Mr, 5 Benignus, you now have in front of you Plaintiff's Exhibit 6 1404 which appears to be the same as Plaintiff's Exhibit 7 1377 except that the print on 1377 is smaller and there are 8 some different other numbers on it. 9 MR. BAUERi As Mr. Benignus pointed out when 10 we were off the record the last page of 1404 is unattached. 11 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Is 1404 a document you have 12 seen before today's date? 13 A. I'm not sure. I'm familiar with what's in 14 here; that's for sure. But this is Westinghouse, isn't it? 15 Well, it is Westinghouse. It's a Westinghouse document. 16 It says, "Meeting with Monsanto on Inerteon." It's a 17 Westinghouse document. Yes. 18 Q. All right. You now have in front of you 19 Plaintiff's Exhibit 1593. Is that a document you have seen 20 before today? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And this is a letter from Bill Papageorge to 23 W.R. Richard, dated September 13 of 1971? 24 A. Yea. 25 Q. Is this a true and accurate copy of that - 264 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049634 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 letter? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q* Was this letter generated as part of the 4 regular business activity of Monsanto? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. was this record maintained as part of 7 Monsanto's regularly-conducted business? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Is the letter in response to a recent 10 telephone call from Dr. Lyon Mandclcorn of Westinghouse? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. I am going to show you Plaintiff's Exhibit 13 1629. Is this a document have seen before today? 14 A. Yos. Sure. Has to be, yea. 15 Q. This is a letter you wrote? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Has your signature on it? 18 A* Yes. 19 Q. DatedFebruary 18, 1971. 20 A. Yes. 21 Q, Is this a true and accurate copy of the letter 22 you wrote on thatday? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. To whoradid you write thisletter? 25 A. That is an open -- to whoever we put their - 265 - COHCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049635 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 name In there. 2 Q. So this was a form letter? 3 A. Yes. This was a form letter, and it was my 4 assignment to introduce 1016 to the capacitor industry as a 5 replacement for 1242* 6 Q. And was this written on or about the time that 7 you received that assignment? 8 A. Yea. 9 MR. BRADLEY: Off the record for a moment. 10 (Thereupon, a short discussion was had.) 11 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Did you write this document 12 as part of your regular business responsibilities at 13 Monsanto? 14 A. 15 Q. Yes. Okay. And was a copy of this maintained in 16 Monsanto's files as part of its regularly-conducted busi 17 ness? 18 A Yes. 19 Q. I am now showingyou Plaintiff's Exhibit 872. 20 Is this a document you have seen before today? 21 A. Yes, 22 Q. This is a letter from Bill Papageorge to you 23 dated January 19th, 1973? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Is this a true and accurate copy of that - 266 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049636 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 record? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Was this letter written to you shortly at ter 4 the completion of the final draft of the guidelines for the 5 proper use, handling and disposal of Askarels? 6 A. Yes, 7 Q. And was this written as part of the regular 8 business activities at Monsanto? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q, And was the document maintainedin Monsanto's 11 files as part of its regularly-conducted business? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. You now have in front of you Plaintiff's 14 Exhibit 1534, Is this a document you have seen before 15 today ? 16 A. I received a copy of this. 17 0. Is this a true and accurate copy of the letter 18 that you reviewed? 19 A. I believe it to be. 20 Q. And this is a letter from PaulGann to Hank 21 Mankedick at westinghou^e? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And was the letterapparently confirming a 24 telephone conversation of July 12th, 1972? 25 A. Yes. - 267 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049637 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. And was the letter generated as part of 2 Monsanto's regularly-conducted business? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And was it maintained in Monsanto's files as 5 part of Monsanto's regularly-conducted business? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. You now have in front of you Plaintiff's 8 Exhibit 1623. Is that a document you have seen before 0 today? 10 0. This is a letter from Mr. Raab to Mr. Olsen at 11 Monsanto dated July 1, 1970? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Is this a true and accurate copy of that 14 letter with the attachment? 15 A. Tbi3 is a General Electric thing here. 16 Q. The attachment has aGeneral Electric caution 17 for can and drummed Pyranol? 18 A. Right. 19 Q. And is that also a true and accurate copy of 20 something that you reviewed with the letter of July 1. 21 1970, which is Plaintiff's Exhibit 1623? 22 A. Yes. Raab submitted this, and it would have 23 been reviewed and accurate* 24 Q. And did Monsanto make those types of reviews 25 as part of its regularly-conducted business? - 26 8 - CONCAHNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049638 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Must have, yes. 2 Q. And did Monsanto maintain a copy of that as 3 part of its regularly-conducted business? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. You now have in front of you Plaintiff s 6 Exhibit 1670. Have you seen that document before? 7 A. Well# Iwrote it. 8 (Thereupon# the reporter read back as follows: 9 "QUESTION: You now have in front of you Plaintiff's 10 Exhibit 1623. Is that a document you have seen before 11 today? ANSWER: Yes. QUESTION: This is a letter from Mr. 12 Raab to Hr. Olsen at Monsanto dated July 1st, 1970? 13 ANSWER: Yes. QUESTION: Is this a true and accurate copy 14 of that letter with the attachment? ANSWER: This is a 15 Ceneral Electric thing here. QUESTION: The attachment ha3 16 a General Electric caution for can and drummed Pyranol? 17 ANSWER: Right. QUESTION: And is that also a true and 18 accurate copy of something that you reviewed with the 19 letter of July 1# 1970, which is Plaintiff's Exhibit 1623? 20 ANSWER: Yes. Raab submitted this, and it would have been 21 reviewed and accurate. QUESTION: And did Monsanto make 22 those types of reviews as part of it's regularly-conducted 23 business? ANSWER: Must have, yes. QUESTION: And did 24 Monsanto maintain a copy of that as part of its regularly25 conducted business? ANSWER: Yes." - 269 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049639 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) I take it, since you wrote 2 this, that you have seen it before? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. is this a true and accurate copy of the letter 5 that you wrote on July 7, 1970 to Mr. Rissinger at 6 Westinghouse? 7 A. Yea. 8 Q. Did you write this shortly after receiving an 9 article from the WashingtonStar about PCS's? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Did you generate that document as part of the 12 regular practice of Monsanto* s business activity? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q, And was a copy oftnat kept in the course of 15 Monsanto'a regularly-conducted business? 16 A. Yes, 17 Q. You now have in front you Plaintiff's Exhibit 18 1492. Have you seen that document before today? 19 A. I was copied in. 1 would say yes. 20 Q. And this is an October 1, 1970 letter from 21 Bill Papageorge to Mr. Viland at Westinghouse? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And it's in response to apparently a request 24 from Mr. Viland for some information? 25 A. Yes. - 270 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049640 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. And was this letter generated as part of 2 Monsanto's regularly-conducted business activities? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And was a copy of this maintained within 5 Monsanto's files as part of its regularly-conducted busi 6 ness? 7 A. Yes. 8 0. I am now showing you Plaintiff's Exhibit 1470. 9 Have you seen that document before today? 10 MR. BAUERj I'm going to object to the charac 11 terization of this as a document. It is a file containing 12 five or six different documents in reverse chronological 13 order, and the front page is a covor note of the file, and 14 I guess I would like them, or request them to be 1470A, D, 15 C, and D, etc., because it's fairly obvious from looking at 16 it that it* s a number of different documents. 17 Q. (by Mr, Bradley) I am going to withdraw my 18 question that's pending and ask you this question: I want 19 to know if you're familiar with any of the contents of that 20 exhibit. 21 A. There are a number of different things. This 22 one I have never seen. 23 Q. By "This one," you mean something that has 24 Earl M, Potter's name at the bottom of it? 25 A. Yes. - 271 - CONCANNOH & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049641 COMPUTER AIDED TRAll SCR IPTION 1 Q. All right. Just tell me if you're familiar 2 with any of the pieces of paper within chat exhibit. 3 A. I would say this one. I was copied in on 4 this, so I -- 5 Q. You're referring to a June 5th, 1972 -- What 6 would you call this document? 1| 7 A. I would call this a document from Dr. Paton 8 to, well, to all of these people, and the subject is PCD 9 labels, drums and notices. 10 Q. Before I have the court reporter take any 11 action, this is a two-page document that you're referring 12 co as the June 5th, 1972 document from Cumming Paton; is 13 that correct? 14 A. Yes. 15 flR. BRADLEY: I am going to have the court 16 reporter mark each of those pages as Plaintiff's Exhibit 17 1470A. 18 (Thereupon, the reporter marked Plaintiff's Deposi 19 tion Exhibit 1470A, for identification.) 20 Q. (by Mr, Bradley) Is exhibit 1470A a true and 21 accurate copy of the letter sent from Cumiuing Paton to 22 these people? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And was the memo written shortly after agree 25 ment was reached regarding PCB labels, drums, and notices? - 272 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049642 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Yes. I want to make one thing clear here: 2 This has to do not with the toxicity warning. This has to 3 do with the addition of the environmental instructions. 4 That is what this deals with, not that this gets out of 5 context, that this is the first time we're putting a 6 warning label on the drum. 7 Q. All right. Was this document generated as 8 part of the regular business activity at Monsanto? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Was a copy maintained at Monsanto as part of 11 its regularly-conducted business? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Are there any other pieces of paper within 14 1470 that you have viewed before today? 15 A. I did not receive this. I am not familiar 16 with this, but it's valid. 17 Q. You are not familiar with the document written 18 by J.M. Uaggart dated May 29th, 1972? 19 A. That is correct. 20 Q. Are there any other pieces of paper within 21 1470 that you have seen before today? 22 A. This was written by the legal department, and 23 I have not seen this, 24 Q. All right. Are there any pieces of paper 25 within 1470 that you are familiar with that we have not - 273 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049643 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 talked about? 2 A. No. We have been through it. 3 Q. Okay. You now have in front of you Plain 4 tiff 's Exhibit 1177. Is that a document you have seen 5 before today? 6 A. I am copied in, so I would have received this. 7 Q. Okay. And this is a document written by W.B. 8 Papageorge to Dr. posefsky with an attachment of questions 0 and answers for ANSI regarding PCS's? 10 A. It's Dr. A. Posefsky, P-o-s-e-f-s-k-y. 11 Q. is this a true and accurate copy of that docu 12 ment? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q.And was this generated shortly after Bill 15 Papageorge prepared a question-and-anewer list for 16 responding to PC3 inquiries? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Was it generated as part of the regular busi 19 ness activities of Monsanto? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q, And was a copy maintained in Monsanto's files 22 as part of its regularly-conducted business? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. You now have in front of you Plaintiff's 25 Exhibit 865. Is that a document that you have seen before - 274 - CON CANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049644 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 today ? 2 A. I knew Dr. Dakin very well; he was the head of 3 research at Westinghouse. Yeah. I wrote it. 4 Q. All right, is this is a true and accurate 5 copy of the letter that you wrote to Mr. Dakin on August 6 7th, 1972? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Was this letter written in response to a 9 question that Mr. Dakin hadposed to you, in part? 10 A. Yeah. Yes. 11 Q. And was this letter written by you as part of 12 the regular business activities of Monsanto? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Was it raaintainod in Monsanto's files as part 15 of Monsanto's regularly-conducted business? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. You now have in front ofyouPlaintiff's 18 Exhibit 1664. Is this a document you have seen before 19 today? 20 A. well, there's my name. I don't know that 21 that's ray initials tnere. But from Olson, that is my name. 22 I may have received this. I had nothing to do with thi6. 23 Q. I arainterested inknowingwhether you recall 24 seeing this before so that you can tell us whether this is 25 a true and accurate copy of what you received previously. - 275 - COMCAMNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049645 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. I would have to say it seems to me it's a copy I 2 of what this thing originally was. 3 Q. All right. It's a true and accurate copy? 4 A. I would have to say so. 5 Q. And was this a document written for the people 6 listed on the first page of the exhibit on or about the 7 time that the information was collected in the exhibit? 8 A. Yea. 3 Q. And was this document generated as part of the 10 regular business activities of Monsanto? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And was a copy of it maintained in Monsanto's 13 files as part of Monsanto1s regularly-conducted business? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. You now have in front of you Plaintiff a IS Exhibit 1535, a letter from Paul Gann to Mr. C.R, Jordan of 17 Westinghouse dated June 23rd, 1972. It also has some hand 18 writing on it. Absent the handwriting, is this a document 19 you have seen before today? 20 A. I don* tthink so. 21 Q. All right. One -- 22 A. Wait a minute. I was copied in on it. I know 23 the subject matter in it. 24 q. But you don't recall seeing the letter before? j 25 A. I think, since I was copied in, that I must - 276 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049646 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 have seen it. 2 Q. Are you able to tell us whether this is a true 3 and accurate copy of the letter Paul Gann sent to Mr. 4 Jordan on June 23rd# 19727 S A. It appears so. 6 Q. Was this letter written in response and to 7 confirm a telephone conversation of that same date between 0 Mr. Gann and Mrs. Sikes? 9 A. It so states, yes. 10 Q. And was this document prepared as part of the 11 regular business activities of Monsanto? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Was it maintained as part of the regularly14 conducted business activity of Monsanto? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Let me ask you one final question. Some of 17 the exhibits that I have 3hown you have highlighting in IS different colors. The copies that you viewed didn't have 19 those color highlightings. That's true, isn't it? And let 20 roe -- With your attorneys assistance, I am trying to simply 21 establish that, when you reviewed those letters and they 22 were maintained in the files, it was without the highlight 23 ing. 24 Q. Oh, yes. 25 MR. BAUER: I'll state for the record that we - 277 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049647 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 understood that we wore looking at the underlying document 2 without the highlighting. 3 MR. BRADLEY: I understood that, as well. 4 Mr. Benignus, I have no further questions. 5 Thank you. 6 QUESTIONS BY MR. MORGAN: 7 Q. Hr, Benignu3, we've been introduced; I'm Bob 8 Morgan of Westingnouse. I don't know if Mr. Bradley asked 9 you this question or not. I'm going to ask you to take a 10 look at Exhibit 1403 again. If he already asked you, I 11 apologize. There is some handwriting on this document 12 1403, and I want to know if you know whose handwriting that 13 is. 14 A. No. I don't know whoso handwriting that is. 15 Q, So when you were talking about your recollec 16 tion of that document, you did not recall seeing that hanc17 v/riting before; is that correct? 13 A. I think that would be correct. Evidently this 19 is a copy that has handwriting on it, and there wouldn't 20 have been handwriting on mine. 21 Q. Great. That is a letter directed to Mr. 22 Speicher of westinghouse? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q, Did you know Mr. Speicher? 25 A. I knew who he was. I never met him, but this - 278 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049648 GOIIPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 is one way how I was well acquainted that Westinghouse 2 would have counterparts in industrial hygiene, as we had. 3 And similarly with GE, and so forth. And I didn't ever 4 meet Hr. Speicher, but here's a letter to him; and he wrote 5 me, once, you see; and I would then refer, knowing he was 6 in industrial hygiene, I would have referred him to 7 Wheeler. And 1 guess this is one of the responses. 0 Q. Do you recall ever meeting somebody from the s Westinghouse*s industrial hygiene department? 10 A. I can't --Where was it located? 11 Q. Pittsburgh, I suppose. 12 A. I suppose. My contacts were Sharon, South 13 0o3ton, Bloomington, years ago Pittsburgh, when they had 14 the old capacitor plant. But I was never in -- I wasn't in 15 the research labs, and Doc Dakin was a good friend of mine, 16 and they had very good research personnel. 17 Q. But as far as the Westinghouse's industrial 18 hygiene department, you don't recall meeting anybody from 19 that particular department? 20 A. NO. 21 MR. MORGAN: I think that is all of the ques 22 tions I have. Thank you. 23 MR. BAUER: Mr. Benignus, I have a couple on 24 behalf of Monsanto. 25 CROSS EXAMINATION - 279 - CONCANNON 6 JAEGER WATER PCB-00049649 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 QUESTIONS BY MR. BAUER; 2 Q. would like to show you what has been marked 3 earlier as Plaintiff's Exhibit 1616, which is a trip report 4 entitled "St. Louis, Missouri, January 21 & 22, 1970," and 5 you earlier testified about your recollection of having 6 seen this document before. On what was that based when you 7 had said that? 8 A. That was based on a quick look before I knew 9 it was a trip report; and I thought this was a distribution 10 list, but on more careful looking, I see it is a list of 11 personnel that were in attendance. That is not a distribu 12 tion list. 13 Q. As you sit here now do you recall whether or 14 not you have seen this particular exhibit before today? 15 A. Well, I don't ever recall getting this report, 16 no. 17 MR. BAUERi That i3 all of the questions I 18 have. 19 MR. BRADLEY: Just a few, Mr. Benignus. Would 20 you hand me that? 21 THE WITNESS; Suret 22 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 23 QUESTIONS BY MR. BRADLEY: 24 Q. Earlier I asked you some questions about item 25 three on that exhibit. Do you recall the questions and the - 2 80 - CONCANHON 6 JAEGER WATER PCB-00049650 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION X answers that we both gave? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And the questions, orexcuse me, the answers 4 to the questions that you gave that I directed towards 5 paragraph three are true, regardless of whether or not you 6 have ever seen this document before; is that true? 7 MR. BAUER: Object to the form of the ques 8 tion. I'm not sure how he can answer that without seeing 9 all of the questions and answers. 10 But you can answer it if you are able. 11 A. Well, I'll answer it on the basis as to how I 12 interpret this statement. 13 Q, (by Mr. Bradley) Well, myquestion, though, 14 was whether you recalled all of the questions that I posed 15 to you and the answers you gave regarding item three on 16 that exhibit. 17 A. I don't recall everything I said, no. 18 Q. Well, let me ask it this way, then: Does the 19 fact that you have never seen this exhibit before alter any 20 of the answers that you provided regarding item three on 21 that exhibit? 22 A. Not at all. 23 MR. BRADLEYj Okay. I have nothing further. 24 MR. BAUER: I nave nothing further. 25 MR. MORGAN: And I have nothing further. - 2 81 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049651 COMPUTER AIDED TRAMSCRIPTION 1 MR. BRADLEYs Thank you, Kr, Benignus, 2 THE WITNESSt You're welcome. 3 4 5 PAUL BENIGNUS 6 Subscribed and aworn to before me thisday 7 Of _ ________________, A. D., 1993. 8 MY COMMISSION EXPIRES. 9 10 Notary Public, within and 11 for the State of Missouri 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - 2 82 CONCANNON 6 JAEGER WATER PCB-00049652 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 STATE.OP MISSOURI ) ) SS 2 COUNTY OP ST. LOUIS ) 3 If Mark D. Concannon, a Notary Public within and for 4 the State of Missouri, duly commissioned, qualified and 5 authorized to administer oaths and to take and certify to 6 depositions, do hereby certify that pursuant to Notice in 7 the civil cause now pending and undetermined in the 8 District Court of the United States, within and for the 9 District of Nevada, entitled NEVADA POWER COMPANY, 10 Plaintiff, -vs- MONSANTO COMPANY, et al,. Defendants, to be 11 used in the trial of said cauue in said Court, I was 12 attended at Fischer'a Restaurant, 2201 W. Main, in the City 13 of Belleville, State of Illinois, by Ralph A. Bradley, 14 attorney for the Plaintiff; by Scott R. Bauer, attorney for 15 the Defendant Monsanto; by Robert P. Morgan, in-house 16 counsel for Defendant Westingnouse; and by PAUL BENIGNUS, 17 the witness, in said office on July 15 and 16, 1993. 1 8 The said witness, PAUL BENIGNUS, being of sound mind 19 and being by me first carefully examined and duly cautioned 20 and sworn to testify the truth, the whole truth and nothing 21 but the truth in the case aforesaid, thereupon testified as 22 is shown in the foregoing transcript, said testimony being 23 by me reported in shorthand and caused to be transcribed 24 into typewriting, and that the foregoing pages correctly 25 set out the testimony of the aforementioned witness, PAUL - 2 83 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049653 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 BENIGNUS, together with the questions propounded by counsel 2 and the remarks and objections of counsel thereto, and is 3 in all respects a full, true and complete transcript o the 4 questions propounded to and the answers given by said 5 witness; end that said testimony, so transcribed, was 6 subscribed to by the witness on the day of 7 , A. D., 1993 . 8 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not of counsel nor 9 attorney for any of the parties to said suit, nor related, 10 nor interested in any of the parties or their attorneys. 11 I FURTHER CERTIFY that Plaintiff's Deposition 12 Exhibit 1470A, marked for identification and attached to 13 and made a part of this deposition, is the identical 14 exhibit referred to and identified by the witness in the 15 foregoing deposition. 16 WITNESS HY HAND and Notarial Seal, given this _______ 17 day of, A, D. , 1993, at St. Louis, Missouri. 18 MY COMMISSION EXPIRES MARCH 21, 1994. 19 20 21 MARK D. CONCANNON, 22 Notary Public, within and for the State of Missouri 23 24 25 - 2 84 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049654 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 PAUL BENIGNUS 2 3 - DEPOSITION CORRECTION SHEET - 4 In Re: NEVADA POWER Vs. MONSANTO 5 Upon reading his deposition transcript and before aubacrib ing thereto, the deponent indicated the following: 6 7 Page Line should read: 8 Reason assigned for change: 9 Page Line should read: 10 Reason assigned for change: 11 page Line should read: 12 Reason assigned for change: 13 Page Line should read: 14 Reason assigned for change: 15 Page Line should read: 16 Reason assigned for change: 17 Page Line should read: 18 Reason assigned for change: 19 Page Line should read: 20 Reason assigned for change: 21 Page Line should read: 22 Reason assigned for change: 23 page Line should read: 24 25 PAUL BENIGNUS - 2 86 - CONCANNOH & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049655 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 PAUL BENIGWUS 2 3 - DEPOSITION CORRECTION SHEET 4 In Res NEVADA POWER Vs. MONSANTO 5 Upon reading his deposition transcript and before suoscrib- ing thereto, the deponent indicated the following: 6 7 Page 115 Line 12 should read capacitors and transformers 8 Reason assigned for change mistranscription 9 Page 115 Line 16 should read capacitors and trans 10 Reason assigned for cnange mistranscription 11 Page 118 Line 9 should read When GE licensed PCBs 12 Reason assigned for change clarification 13 Page 120 Line 18 should read to whom and how much 14 Reason assigned for change mistranscription 15 Page 135 Line 3 should read they didn't designate me. 16 Reason assigned for change clarification 17 Page 136 Line 19 should read defined maybe better 18 Reason assigned for change mistranscription 19 Page 139 Line 12 should read askarel transformer 20 Reason assigned for change mistranscription 21 Page 143 Line 10 snould read epoxide, specifically 22 Reason assigned for change mistranscription 23 Page 144 Line 23 snould read to trace contamination by mistranscription 24 ________ 25 PAUL BENIGNUS - 2 86 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049656 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 PAUL BENIGNUS 2 3 - DEPOSITION CORRECTION SHEET - 4 In Re: NEVADA POWER Vs. MONSANTO 5 Upon reading his deposition transcript and before subscrib ing thereto, the deponent indicated the following: 6 7 Page 152 Line 5 should read: nonreactive, stable 8 Reason assigned for change: mistranscription 9 Page 158 Line 20 should read: delete second "from information 10 Reason assigned for cnange: mistranscription 11 Page 191 Line 20 should read: are other considerations here 12 Reason assigned for change: clarification 13 Page 194 Line 18 should read: at ASTM 14 Reason assigned for change: mistranscription 15 Page 200 Line 14 should read: delete first "fire" 16 Reason assigned for change: clarification 17 Page Line snould read: 18 Reason assigned for change: 19 Page Line should read: 20 Reason assigned for change: 21 Page Line snould read: 22 Reason assigned for change: 23 Page Line snould read: 24 25 PAUL BENIGNUS /V - 2 86 - CONCANHOH & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049657 (JCJ 1*1 ir1 U VL R A X UCd u i Afti* o x c i 1 PAUL BENIGNUS 2 3 - DEPOSITION CORRECTION SHEET - 4 In Re: NEVADA POWER Vs. MONSANTO 5 Upon reading his deposition transcript and before suoscrib ing thereto, the deponent indicated the following: 6 7 Page M3 Line should read: fi 'USOl 8 Reason assigned for change: 9 Page Linesnould read: -t-vt- 10 Reason assigned for cnange: 11 Page JjCf LineJ should read: Oi'nA. ^*'/**Jmi*4l 12 Reason assigned for change: 13 Page Linej0 should read: 14 Reason assigned for change: 15 PagLine | should read: 16 Reason assigned for change: 17 Pagejty/" Line *j snould read: lUk'feuikU*- 18 Reason assigned for cnange: 19 Page/^^ Line^ should read: l tybb 20 Reason assigned for change: 21 Page }jj ^Line frQ snould read: 22 Reason assigned for change: 23 Page Line vy`~^ snould read: 24 25 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049658 LU i'l.t'U xEiK tiium i nni'l j in x \j n 1 PAUL BENIGWUS 2 3 - DEPOSITION CORRECTION SHEET - 4 In Re: NEVADA POWER Vs. MONSANTO 5 Upon reading his deposition transcript and before suoscribing thereto, the deponent indicated the following: 6 7 Page Line ^ should read: 8 Reason assigned for change: 'fl&h' y` 1 9 Page / ^j^Line )j should read: 'Tt&'T i'7 10 Reason assigned for cnange: 11 Page /ifS/ Line J should read: 12 Reason assigned for change: 13 Page Line J should read: -7^7^Ano(_ -- -- 14 Reason assigned for change: 15 'age Line (j should read: 16 Reason assigned for change: 17 >ag e/ffc Line f ^ should read: t 18 Reason assigned for cnange: 19 >age?^? Line )^ should read: ^ JfAjfe 'jH^d 20 Reason assigned for change: e<-V/f * " fy,le-- 17 ` 21 'age A(0 l Line ./ snould read: 22 Reason assigned for change: 23 ige Line snould read: 24 25 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049659 a Ul\ muuy A W/ ^ 4 * *w% 1 PAUL BEUIGUUS 2 3 - DEPOSITION CORRECTION SHEET - 4 In Re: NEVADA PO/7ER Vs. MONSANTO 5 Upon reading his deposition transcript and before suoscribing thereto, the deponent indicated the following: 6 7 Page&^ L*ne 9 ^ should read: 8 Reason assigned for change: 9 Page $.Q(( Line snould read: cfAb&fy'' 10 Reason assigned for cnange: 11 Page #/(? Line Qij- should read: V 12 Reason assigned for change: 13 Page// Line ( should read: 14 Reason assigned for change: 'TYlH- 15 Page Line yf should read: 16 Reason assigned for change: 17 Page ine }(p snould read: *iy .j 18 Reason assigned for cnange: 19 Page^^y Line / 7 should read: 20 Reason assigned for change: 21 Page^ltf^ Line snould read: 22 Reason assigned for change: 23 Page^// Line J^^snould read: o 24 25 PAUL BENIGNUS - 2 86 - 4^ ____ CONCASHOH & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049660 . ___________ _ 'S' COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 of 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. BRADLEY: Thank you, Mr. Benignus. THE WITNESS: You're welcome. PAUL BENIGNUS Subscribed and sworn to before me this ___ , A. D., 1993. MY COMMISSION EXPIRES __ JOSEPHUS S. NISIOCX NOTARY PUBUC STATE OF MISSOURI ST. toutsCOUNTY nYCCftUSSKJN EXP. OMI. 15.1093 day '<* J' yijoMceJ?. ^ 'Notary Public, within and for the State of Missouri - 2 82 - WATER PCB-00049661