Document G599YxvwvOmg9BE2nKwOKykkm

TXUFBOKE HUDSON *4196 Manufacturing Chemists' Association, Inc. (FOUNDED 167J) 1825 Connecticut Avenue, N. W. Washington 9, D. C. MINUTES OF MEETING PLASTICS COMMITTEE Royal York Hotel, Toronto, __________ October 17, 1961 Canada PRESENT: Messrs. Walter H. Salzenberg, E. I. du Pont de Nemours S Co. T, T. Miller, W. R. Grace Co. W. J. A. Connor (for K. J. Nelson), Enjay Chemical Co. W. C. Goggin, The Dow Chemical Company T. J. Kinsella, Allied Chemical Corporation W. C. Lowrey (for Martin Buck), Shell Chemical Company R. K. Mueller, Monsanto Chemical Company John J. O'Connor (for A. R. Marusi), Borden Chemical Co. G. Murray Scott, Dow Chemical of Canada, Limited F. H. Carman, Manufacturing Chemists' Association, Inc. The meeting was called to order at 11:00 a.m. with Mr. Salzenberg in the Chair. BUILDING PROGRAM (a) Liaison Committee The Joint MCA-SPI liaison committee on building code prob lems has arranged a meeting for October 25, 1961, which fits in with the schedule of Frank Ambrose, SPI Committee Chairman, to be in the East. (b) Plastics in Building Committee CMA 078467 A capsule report of the October 5, 1961 meeting of the Plastics in Building Committee, as summarized by Mr. Demarest, in cludes : (1) It was the general consensus that something must be done to backstop the SPI on the West Coast smoke toxicity challenges regarding plastic materials by San Francisco building officials and the International Conference of Building Officials, The Committee hopes to recommend something to the Plastics Committee at its Novem ber 14, 1961 meeting. (2) The building representatives favor a U/L survey of he literature on combustion products of building materials, although hey are currently considering projects proposed by four other labora tories , (3) Orville Pierson of Rohm Haas Co, was elected Chairman Ia Edwin Edberg of Koppers Co,,, Inc. as Vice Chairman, replacing " Akin and Orville Pierson, respectively. Plastics Committee Meeting October 17, 1961 page 2 (4) As of last week, the SPI had not succeeded in "pull ing together" any group of members to support and participate in the "How-To-Do-It Carnival" at the NAHB annual meeting and show. The PIB Committee still wants the MCA to sponsor a plastics industry demonstration if the SPI definitely will not, and voted to request up to $3,000 and the assignment of Mr. Demarest full time for two months to organize same. Since the NAHB deadline was October 13, this had been discussed with two members of the aforementioned Liai son Committee; in view of the fact that: (a) participation in the Carnival was of direct interest to one or more groups within the SPI, (b) there was an extremely short time for any group in the SPI or the MCA to produce a good demonstration, (c) handling by MCA could lead to criticism of setting a precedent in acting where the fabricators should have direct interest, and (d) Mr. Demarest's time had been committed for development of a primer, it was the recommendation of the Committee members and the Washington staff that MCA forego participation as an association. Subsequent to the above, the NAHB urged that they be allowed to obtain some demonstrations by one or more companies on plastics and that they use MCA as a sponsor. The Washington office was of the opinion that this should more properly be done under the SPI as a sponsor and this was reported to the NAHB. The Plastics Committee concurred with this decision on the part of the staff and the Liaison Committee. UNDERWRITERS* LABORATORIES The Advisory Committee met with the project director on October 4, A brief report prepared by Mr. Demarest was read by the Secretary as follows : The lab-testing is substantially completed, Mr, L. M. Kline commented, with Mr. Baron Whitaker present, that he is very favor ably impressed by plastics* performance in the electric arc-tracking tests. Mr. Kline stated he had a very difficult time setting the vaporizer and vacuum cleaner afire; he finally resorted to blowtorch or gasoline-soaked rag (which some of the Advisory Committee criti cized). The first complete draft of Mr. Kline's report is due Novem ber 15, with December 6 set aside should another meeting be necessary, lhe atmosphere of the meeting seemed cordial and cooperative, although perhaps not so much so as last meeting in May. Mr, Whitaker advised that any possible plastics-in-building study by U/L would not be under him. The MCA Plastics in Building Committee had voted it favored a literature-search on smoke generation and toxicity of combustion products of building materials; Mr. R. B. Akin is to discuss this with Whitaker and others on October 18. Secretary then advised that the contract for completion of the Present program has been signed for a total of $33,000, of which `=*400 had been paid through September 30, 1961. It is believed -pie funds are available to complete the project as now outlined. CMA 078468 Plastics Committee Meeting October 17, 1961 page 3 The September 1, 1961 deadline for new requirements for plastic components in air conditioners had caused no complications and manu facturers appear to be complying with little difficulty. One report indicates that satisfactory shielding has been possible at a cost of 30$-60$ per conditioner in the designs which were questionable in the past. The project director is participating in a regional SPE-RETEC meet ing on Plastics in Major Appliances, October 25, 1961 in Louisville, Kentucky, at which time he will report on the findings of this MCAsponsored research. TECHNICAL DATA BOOK W. C, Goggin commented on conclusions reached by W. F. Busse (du Pont Co.), W. F. Bartoe (Rohm Haas Co,), and F. H. Carman follow ing extensive discussions with A. G. H. Dietz and F, J, McGarry of M.I.T. and Eric Baer of University of Illinois (and author of the SPE's forthcoming book "Engineering Design for Plastics"). The MCA representatives had agreed that: (1) Revision of "Technical Data on Plastics" in the present format can hardly serve a purpose which is already being handled by other data tables and accordingly should not be undertaken; (2) There is no strong reason for or against issuance of a supplement at this time to include new plastic materials since the 1957 issue; (3) Based on the suggestions of the technical representatives on new format, the building sub-committee's expressed need for engi neering data useful in that industry, and on the plan suggested by Messrs. Dietz and McGarry, editing such a publication would require a two-man year effort at $25,000 per year; (4) The objective for this new publication should be an engi neering handbook for plastics which will enable students, designers end engineers to make better and more extensive use of plastics in *11 types of applications in such industries as building, marine, automotive, industrial, transportation, and appliances. t (5) An engineering handbook as described in Item (4) above is >** sufficient importance to suggest partial diversion of fundamental research funds for an interim period to support this publication if new monies are not forthcoming. ^ul3sequently, and after careful study of the forthcoming SPE book the authors, these representatives concluded that this SPE publi cation should take care of the needs of the industry for an engineer'j' ^a?dbook on Plastic materials; also, that further activity in 'Piling or subsidizing such a publication by MCA would be a dupli- l0n of effort and should not be undertaken at this time. CMA 078469 Plastics Committee Meeting October 17, 1961 Page 4 To assist in distribution of the SPE book and to get it in the hands of the proper engineering personnel for which it is intended, Dr. Goggin had been consulting with SPE representatives on accept able plans in which MCA could help. He supplied the memorandum at tached hereto as Exhibit A as a report on action taken by the SPE. Following discussion, the Plastics Committee agreed that the technical representatives should be asked to consider the above recommended plan for assisting the SPE and whether or not funds should be temporarily diverted from one of the research projects on plastic materials. The discussion and decision of the Plastics Committee are reported in the attached letter prepared by T. T. Miller (Exhibit B). As a matter of interest, it was reported that the SPE had drop ped sponsorship of the Plastics Institute, although it is possible that certain individuals are still going ahead with this promotion. ASA SECRETARIAT SUPPORT Chairman Salzenberg distributed copies of a letter from G, F. Hussey, Jr., Managing Director of American Standards Association acknowledging support of the Secretariat for the Technical Commit tee on Plastics of the ISO in the amount of $6,500 (copy of letter attached as Exhibit C). ANNUAL FALL PLASTICS CONFERENCE A letter from Henry Avery as chairman of the Committee on Arrange ments for the 1961 Fall Conference was read by the Secretary, and is attached hereto as Exhibit D. On the suggestion that Ira Ellis be invited to speak each year and give an economic forecast, Chairman Salzenberg advised that Mr. Ellis had indicated to him he would be delighted to take care of this in the business session on Thursday morning. The Plastics Committee asked that these suggestions be referred to the Arrangements Committee for the next Annual Fall Plastics Group Conference. PLASTICS - INSTITUTIONAL SEATING The flammability problem in connection with school seating in the "test Coast area was considered by this Committee in May, June and September. A recent report (attached hereto as Exhibit E) from George Wash of Phillips Chemical Company indicates there is still interest in use of non-flammable materials, but there is no crisis at this time. CMA 078470 Plastics Committee Meeting October 17, 1961 Page 5 PLASTIC TRASH CANS As a matter of interest, members were advised that SPI had had an ad hoc committee meeting of interested member representatives on September 6, 1961 in St. Louis. Certain affirmative steps are being taken by the plastics representatives to obtain information on flammable properties, and it was agreed that these, together with a former St. Louis building commissioner, will arrange future meetings with the St. Louis Fire Prevention Bureau head. NEXT MEETING The next meeting of the Plastics Committee is to be held on November 14, 1961 at the Manhattan Club, New York City. It was agreed that the chairman and former chairman of the Plastics in Building Committee should be invited to report on general develop ments in the building program and specifically on steps they be lieve should be taken on the toxicity and smoke hazards problem. TORONTO MEETING Following a review of the luncheon program and special guests invited, the suggestion was made that the Committee plan one meet ing a year in Canada at a time and place consistent with other meetings or exhibitions of interest to the plastics industry. This proposal was approved. WHEREUPON adjournment was taken at 12:15 p.m. for lunch at which the following were special guests of the Association: W. G. Aird, Executive Vice President, Reichhold Chemicals (Canada) Limited 0. G, Ball, Toronto District Manager, Canadian Chemical Company J. H. Childs, Manager, Plastics Division, Du Pont of Canada Limited W, T. Cruse, Executive Vice President, The Society of the Plastics Industry, Inc, George M. Hale, Manager, Canadian Resins 6 Chemicals Division, Shawinigan Chemicals Limited A. W. Hutchison, Manager, Chemical Division Shell Oil Company of Canada Limited Gerald Ray, General Manager, Borden Chemical Company, Canada H. D. Ross, Vice President and General Manager Shawinigan Chemicals Limited J. Southwell, Director of Sales S Development, Chemicals and Plastics Division Union Carbide Canada Limited S. Sutherland, President, Shawinigan Chemicals Limited. Respectfully submitted, ated 10/18/61 **3*et to Approval F. H. Carman, Committee Secretary CMA 078471 Exhibit A Memo on SPE-MCA Cooperation Regarding the Book "Engineering Design for Plastics" On Thursday, October 5, 1961, the Technical Volumes Committee of SEE met in New York City to consider the possibility of MCA co-sponsoring the above-named book being edited by Professor Eric Baer. The Committee passed a resolution authorizing Chairman R. F. Boyer to discuss this subject informally with Dr. W. C. Goggin so that he could take it up with the Executive Committee of MCA at its Toronto meeting. The Technical Volumes Committee suggested the following points as being basic to cooperation: 1. Since the Baer book is completely planned already and all of its authors selected, Dr. Baer would retain full editorial responsibility. 2. Again, because of the advanced state of this book, the word "co-sponsor" seemed inappropriate. Instead it was suggested that the front of the book carry an endorsement page written by someone in MCA. 3 It was felt that the authors and the editor of this book, as well as the Society, should not suffer any financial penalty through MCA buying a block of books at a special discount rate. If the discount from Reinhold Publish ing were greater than 4l$, then our authors would suffer in terms of total royalty, especially since the free books given away by MCA would undoubtedly detract from the direct sale of the books by Reinhold to individuals. If MCA agreed to endorse this book, the Committee felt that we should reserve the right to accept other endorsements by recognized bodies if so requested, as, for example, by SPI. If these general conditions are acceptable to MCA, then a formal letter should he sent by MCA to SPE (either to R. F. Boyer as chairman of the Technical Volumes Committee, or to some officer of SPE). The Technical Volumes Committee would then take this up at its January AOTEC Meeting as a formal request from MIA. If the Technical Volumes Committee approves the request formally, it would make a recommendation to the Engineering Board, which in turn would make a recommendation *' SPE Council. Since the manuscripts will not be ready until May of 1962, it was felt that the delay in going through formal channels of SEE would not be serious. R. F. Boyer ### "t Monday, October 9, 1961, the SEE Council met in Detroit and decided to discuss question of MCA cooperation with SEE on the book "Engineering Design for Council accepted and approved the recommendation of Dr. Boyer's ecr.nical Volumes Committee with regard to this potential cooperation. ^P'-ed by M;A October 20, 1961 W. C. Goggin CMA 078472 COPY From: " W. R. Grace & Co. Polymer Chemicals Division 225 Allwood Road, Clifton, N. J. Exhibit B October 18, 1961 Mr. William T. Cruse The Society of the Plastics Industry, Inc. 250 Park Avenue New York 17, New York Dear Bill: This is to summarize for you what I told you in Toronto Tuesday concerning some discussions which the MCA Plastics Committee had held during its Toronto meeting. In investigating for the Committee whether it should bring up to date and republish the MCA-sponsored Technical Data Book on Plastics, Bill Goggin and a group of member technical representatives had come to a tentative conclusion that the costs of doing so, estimated at $50,000, and the time required, estimated at two years, might be out of line with the results obtainable, especially in view of two considerations: (a) Much of the data is already duplicated, up-dated and republished annually in the Modern Plastics Encyclopedia. (b) A very extensive volume to be entitled "Engineering Design for Plastics," now in preparation under SPE sponsorship for publication by Reinhold next spring, may contain much additional data that would normally be included in the Data Book. The MCA Plastics Committee is therefore asking its Technical Committee to examine the subject matter of "Engineering Design for Plastics," which is being edited by Professor Eric Baer of the University of Illinois, and for which Individ'*1 chapters are being written by various technical experts among the plastics raw saterials producers and the university staffs, and to report back to the MCA Flastics Committee at its December meeting. At that time, the Plastics Committee intends to consider possibly endorsing the book, purchasing perhaps a thousand :"pies, and distributing them with MCA'5 compliments to a carefully selected list engineering designers who could be reasonably expected to make good use of the "tck in designing articles and components to make effective use of plastics. It is estimated that this could cost MCA up to $15,000. The SPE Council, upon recommendation of the SPE Technical Volumes Committee, the SPE Engineering Board, voted on October 9 to approve in principal, subject 7 ae6otiation of details, the idea of MCA becoming a sponsor along the lines out-taed above, with a formal proposal to be submitted by MCA for consideration by the Ty^tnical Volumes Committee at its January AUIEC Meeting. The SPE reserves the r'VL to aocePt other endorsements if so requested, and the MCA sentiments expressed , Toronto were that this would be quite appropriate so long as the other sponsors I ** of high standing. I ^ (over) CMA 078473 Mr. William T. Cruse 2- - Exhibit E October 18, 1961 In recognition of the increasing areas of cooperation between SPI and MCA, I was therefore requested to inform SPI as promptly as possible of this situation, so that SPI would be apprised In advance and have time to consider whether it too might wish to become a sponsor and distribute additional copies over and beyond the 1,000 which MCA will probably underwrite. In such event, MCA would of co cooperate by showing SPI its distribution list so that duplications could be avoided. If there is any interest on SPI's part or any further information that SPI needs, please let me know. MCA's Technical Committee will also be asked to consider whether there is still further technical information with regard to designing in plastics which will not adequately-have been covered in any SPI, SHE or MCA sponsored literatim together with suggestions as to how and by whom such information might best be compiled, edited, sponsored and published in the future. Very truly yours. TTMia.3 cc Mr. Walter H. Salzenberg Mr. Frank H. Carman Mr. William C. Goggin T. T. Miller President Copied by MCA October 20, 1961 CMA 078474 COPY Exhibit C TO: Mr. Walter H. Salzenberg, General Manager Pdlychemicals Department E. I. du Pont de Nemours St Company Wilmington, Delaware September 22, 1961 FROM: G. F. Hussey, Jr. Managing Director, American Standards Association, Inc. U. S. Member, International Organization for Standardization 10 East 40th Street, New York l6, N. Y. Dear Mr. Salzehberg: Correspondence during the summer culminated in the receipt by the ASA, on August 14, of funds in the amount of $6500 from the Manufacturing Chemists' Association, Inc. toward support of the Secretariat for Technical Committee 6l on Plastics (TC 6l) of the International Organization for Standardization (ISO), which Secretariat is held by the ASA at the request of the American plastics industry. Receipt of this money was acknowledged by my letter of August 18 to Mr. F. H. Carman, Technical Director of the MCA. Knowing, however, that this support results from the recommendation of the Executive Committee of the MCA Plastics Group and that the recommendation understandably was made only after very thorough study and delibera tion, I am anxious to extend the ASA acknowledgement to the Committee as well. I It would be most appreciated therefore if as Chairman of the Plastics Group Execu tive Committee you would convey the thanks of the ASA to the Committee members for their consideration of this matter and for their favorable action in recognizing the expense incurred by the ASA in providing their industry with this particular service. As you probably know the ASA has held the ISO/TC 6l Secretariat since the inception of the project in 1951* As the activity expanded quite rapidly the costs of main taining the Secretariat and providing for American industry participation naturally increased proportionately until they reached that present figure of $6500 per year. Tc cover those costs heretofore it has been necessary for the ASA to "borrow" funds from those paid by other industries for other purposes. This of course can becbme very embarrassing, and thus the decision of the Executive Committee and of the Plastics Group to underwrite this special service is indeed gratifying and reassuring. i..e support thus provided will permit continuation of the extensive and fruitful TC 6l program and of full scale USA participation and leadership In it, the ser vices for which the ASA Is indeed glad to furnish so long as they are desired and &re backed by American plastics interests. Without this assumption of responsi bility by the MCA Plastics Group, a critical review of this particular activity certainly would have been necessary. It Is therefore with a sense of real relief &s veil as a strong feeling of appreciation that I extend these thanks of the Association to the Executive Committee members for their understanding of the Situation and for their helpfulness therewith. *ain your courtesy in conveying these feelings to the Committee members will be fc-st appreciated. W- E. Brown H. Carman T* T. Miller A* C. Webber CMA 078475 Copied by MIA October 20, 1961 c 0 P Y PITTSBURGH CHEMICAL COMPANY Grant Building Pittsburgh 19, Pa* Henry Avery Executive Vice President Exhibit D October 1961 Mr. Frank H. Carman Manufacturing Chemists' Assn., Inc. 1825 Connecticut Avenue, N. W. Washington 9, D. C. Dear Frank: On behalf of the Plastics Committee, I thank you for your kind letter of September 19th, regarding the Oyster Harbors Meeting arrangements. I am sure that all the previous chairmen of the Committee on Arrangements have had the same experience I had and found that--under your able direction and planning-the chairman's job is a very enjoyable one. I think the Golf Committee did an outstanding job and am writing to them in appreciation. IIn regard to speakers, I believe there should be some rule that unless one or }wo members have heard the proposed speaker in action on the podium, he should be looked at with a jaundiced eye. Also, a number of members suggested that we might attempt to have Ira Ellis speak to us on an annual basis. In fact, they said they would be glad to get up and attend an 8:30 meeting, if it took that to fit him into our program. I very sincerely believe there is some con tinuing benefit to having an economic forecast performed annually, and--if possible--by the same person. This may be too much to ask of Mr. Ellis, but there might be some way we could provide such a service to the Plastics Group. Thanks again for all your help; and if there Is any way that I can be of service in the future, please do not hesitate to call on me. Best personal regards. Sincerely, $/ Henry Avery 2A:ms Mr. W. H. Salzenberg, Chairman, Plastics Committee Mr. T. T. Miller, Vice Chairman, Plastics Committee c 0 P Y PHILLIPS CHEMICAL COMPANY Bartlesville, Oklahoma October 3, l$6l Exhibit E Plastic School Seating File: 8-Wa-3<S2-6lPC Mr* Wm. T. Cruse The Society of the Plastics Industry, Inc. 250 Park Avenue New York 17, N, Y* Mr* Frank H. Carman Manufacturing Chemists' Association, Inc. 1825 Connecticut Avenue, N. W. Washington 9j E. C* Gentlemen: Here is some information from our West Coast office on the above subject. I thought you would like to be advised. It was written by our Sales Engineer to our District Manager in Pasadena, California. "Today (9-26-6l), at the request of the Los Angeles City School System, I met with Frank Watson of the Supply and Standardization Department, to discuss plastic school seating. In the course of our conversation, the flammability problem reared its head. They are very interested in using plastic seats; but, they feel that the resin must be flame-retardant or self-extinguishing. The example they gave was when one student decides to give another student a 'not- seat'. The fire will eventually consume the plastic seat and if this occurs at recess or at the end of the school day, the fire could conceivably spread throughout the rest of the school before being discovered. They pointed out that the present hardwood seats would burn, of course, but since it Is approxi mately l/2 to 3/V' thick, it is doubtful that a single match could be held long enough to cause the problem that would be encountered with the plastic seats. "I discussed using flame-retardant compounds, pointing out that although it has self-extinguishing characteristics, we feel it defeats its purpose by diminishing other desirable properties of the material. However, they would like small sheet samples containing flame-retardant compounds and sheet coated with a fire retardant clear coating. "...................... I feel we can be of assistance not only to our customers, but to the plastics industry in general by pursuing and overcoming this problem." Very truly yours, /s/ George Wash George Wash, Director Plastics Sales Division GW :bak ^Pied by MIA October 20, 1961 CMA 078477