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FILE NAME: Uniroyal (UNIR) DATE: 1993 Apr 13 DOC#: UNIR101 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Legal - Deposition of Dr. John G. Wells 4 ''igfS 1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF JACKSON COUNTY STATE OF MISSISSIPPI * 2 3 4 ' IN RE: - 5 ASBESTOS PERSONAL INJURY CASES ABRAMS NOS. 6 88-5422 (2) , 89-5088 (2) , 89- 5121(2), 90-5247(2), 88- 5420 (2) ,89- 5252 (2) ,90- 5069(2), 90-5322 (2) , 7 89- 5153(2), 90- 5352 (2) , 89-5268(2), 90- 5045 (2) , 90- 5274(2), 88-5181 (2) , 91-5187(2), 91- 5098 (2) , 8 91- 5000(2), 90-5387(2), 91-5119(2), 90-5369 (2) # 91-5135 (2) , AND 91.-5178 ( 2 ) . 9 10 11 d e p o s i t i o n OF p fEB ^ G W 7 .1 12 DR. JOHN G. WELLS ULL;--,,,- -- - u l_z:\ j 1 3 14 15 April 13, 1993 16 10:00a.m. 17 18 100 Wagon Yard Plaza 19 Carrollton, Georgia 20 21 Danette L Holbrook, CCR-B-1355 22 23 24 25 A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, J R ., & ASSOCIATES APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL On behalf of the Plaintiffs: JOHN J. MCCONNELL, Jft., Esq. Ness, Motley, Loadholt,.. Richardson & Poole Two Charles Street * Providence, Rhode Island 02904-2269 On behalf of Uniroyal: RICHARD L. FORMAN, Esq. Forman, Perry, Watkins & Krutz Suite 1200 One Jackson Place 188 East Capitol Street Jackson, Mississippi 39201 On behalf of Ericsson: H. LANE YOUNG, II, Esq. Freeman & Hawkins 4000 One Peachtree Center Atlanta, Georgia 30308 On behalf of Hopeman Brothers, Inc.: BEVERLY D. POOLE, Esq. Saunders, Bell, Fortenberry and Corson, P. One Lefleur's Square - 4735 Old Canton Road P. O. Box 16295 Jackson, Mississippi 39236 On behalf of Dr. Wells: DAVID1 H. TISINGER, Esq. KEVIN,BUICE, Esq. Tisinger, Tisinger, Vance & Greer 100 Wagqn Yard Plaza Carrollton, Georgia 30117 Also Present: Laura Norris Kimberly Chunn A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 3 1 2 INDEX TO EXAMINATIONS 3 Examination * 4 Cross-Examination by Mr. McConnell Direct Examination by Mr. Forman 5 Recross -Examination by Mr. McConnell Redirect Examination by Mr. Forman 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 : 2 5 Page 6 181 188 189 A. WILLIAM ROBERTS , J R ., & ASSOCIATES Plaintiff -.Exhibit__ INDEX 70 EXHIBITS Description Page 1 Notebook containing correspondence from 1956 to the '80s received by or sent from Dr. Wells 8 2 Notebook containing deposition of Dr. Wells in the case of Lois Hurtt in 1983 8 3 Notebook containing information relating to dust counts 9 4 Notebook containing information relating to asbestos dust 9 5 Notebook containing letters from Mr. Forman 9 6 Notebook containing reprints on asbestosis disease and a case presentation regarding chronic diffuse interstitial fibrosis of the lungs 10 7 Pages 335, 336, and 337 of the book "The Proceeding of the Biological Effects of Asbestos" held in 1964 in New York 15 8 Window Shade 15 9 Window Shade 15 10 -, . Documents mailed or sent to Dr. Wells by Mr. Forman 17 11 * Midget Impinger 18 12 Document Dated 5-10-4.6 containing results of the - survey made from the October 1945 x-ray findings 58 A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 % 18 19 . 20 21 22 23 24 25 13 X-ray Card * 80 14 Engagement Slip 80 15 Material on Lois Jackson Hurtt ` 80 16 Dr. Wells' 1957-1958 report 95 17 1957 Asbeston Medical and X-ray Survey Summary of findings 109 18 Lois Hurtt's ,, medical records 166 A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 6 1 DR. JOHN G. WELLS, . 2 having been first duly sworn, was examined and 3 testified as follows: 4 CROSS-EXAMINATION 5 BY MR. MCCONNELL: 6 Q. Dr. Wells, could you state your 7 full name for the record. 8 A. John G. Wells. 9 Q. And home address, sir? 10 A. 6 Woodland Trail, Newnan, Georgia. 11 Q. Newnan, Georgia? 12 A. Newnan, Georgia. 13 Q. How about your business address, if 14 you still maintain one? 15 A. I'm retired, but I maintain an 16 office in my :former business office, that is 41 17 Jefferson Street. 18 Q. In Newnan, Georgia? 19 A . In Newnan, Georgia. 20 Q. Your date of birth, sir? 21 A. 29 May, 1921. 22 Q. Have you received a copy, Dr. 23 Wells, of the deposition notice with the 24 attachment requesting that you bring certain 25 material with you? A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 7 1 A. I did yesterday afternoon. 2 Q. You received it yesterday 3 afternoon? 4 A. (Witness nods head affirmatively.) 5 Q. And in response to that notice, did 6 you bring certain materials with you? 7 A. I brought the material you see 8 before you. 9 MR. TISINGER: One thing'we 10 didn't bring and we're not going to 11 bring is these patient records. I hope 12 that didn't sound hostile. That's just 13 a privacy thing that I don't feel like 14 we can breach. 15 MR. MCCONNELL: And there's no 16 need us getting in a fuss on this record 17 about it. We may bring an appropriate 18 motion if need be after we review that 19 which wasn't produced, but I understand 20 your position. And I just didn't want 21 my silence to be considered as 22 acquiescence in that matter. 23 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Doctor, can you 24 categorize for us what you did bring with you in 25 some sort of general sense, what you got to look A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 8 1 for, and what did you bring. 2 A. I have several notebooks, one of 3 which contains various correspondences which I 4 received or sent from 1956 through sometime in the 5 '80s . 6 MR. MCCONNELL: Why don't 7 we -- while we're going to discuss that 8 notebook for a minute, why don't we, for 9 the record, have that marked as 10 Plaintiff's Exhibit l. 11 (Document was marked for 12 2. 3 identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 1.) A. I have another notebook which 14 contains a deposition that I gave in 1983. 15 Q. We will have that marked as 16 Plaintiff's Exhibit 2, and that's in the case of 17 Lois Hurtt? * " 18 A. That is correct. 19 (Document was marked for 20 identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 2.) 21 A. The third notebook has certain 22 information relating to dust counts as obtained 23 historically and at the U.S. Rubber Company plant 24 in Hogansville. -- \ 25 MR. MCCONNELL: We will have A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 9 - 1 that marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit 3. 2 (Document was marked for 3 identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 3.) 4 A. Another notebook that simply 5 relates to certain documents or reprints that I 6 have or got in asbestos dust. 7 MR. MCCONNELL: That's 8 Plaintiff's Exhibit 4, and that's 9 contained in a white notebook. - 10 (Document was marked for 11 identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 4.) 12 A. Another notebook containing certain / 13 letters from Mr. Forman and the service for 14 bringing documents to this deposition. 15 MR. MCCONNELL: We will have 16 that marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit 5. 17 (Document was marked for. 18 identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 5.) 19 A. Another notebook containing certain 20 reprints on asbestosis and a case presentation 21 which I ha.d regarding the chronic -- regarding 22 chronic diffuse interstitial fibrosis of the 23 lungs. * 24 MR. MCCONNELL: I will have 25 that marked Plaintiff's Exhibit 6. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 10 1 (Document was marked for 2 identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 6.) 3 A. There's a book, the Proceedings of 4 the Biological Effects of Asbestos which was held 5 in 1964 in New York. 6 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) That's your 7 original copy? 8 A. That's my original copy. * 9 Q. You received that at the conference 10 -- shortly after the conference? 11 A. Shortly afterwards, yes. 12 Q. We certainly don't need to make a 13 copy of that. If you give me one second to just 14 leaf through it for a minute. 15 Doctor, if you'd help me here, it 16 may speed it up. Do you know what page your 17 comments are contained on? - 18 MR. FORMAN: 335 through 337. 19 MR. MCCONNELL: If we could 20 just have marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit 21 7 pages 335 through 337 of the book. 22 `` MR. TISINGER: Would it 23 satisfy you to let us make a copy of 24 that for you and then put the stioker on 25 that? A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 11 1 MR. MCCONNELL: Absolutely. 2 MR. TISINGER: And I'm going 3 to refrain from using the next number. 4 Are we going to put a number on -- 5 that's already 1, okay. 6 MR. MCCONNELL: So the Xerox 7 of those three pages would be a Plaintiff's Exhibit 7, 335, 336, and 9 337; and for the record, we will show 10 that Dr. Wells produced his entire 11 original 1964 Annals. 12 A. There are two window shades which 13 contain a great deal of evidence regarding patient 14 workers at the U.S. Rubber company. 15 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) You are going 16 to have to explain that to me. 17 MR. TISINGER: See those" 18 things, you are not going to be able - 19 I don't know what you are going - 20 MR. FORMAN: Those are just 21 demonstrative. You asked for that. We 22 don't anticipate offering these into 23 evidence, but we may use them for 24 demonstrative purposes. * 25 (A discussion ensued off the A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 12 1 record.) 2 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Doctor, we're 3 looking at two window shades with a graph 4 appearance. It appears on the one that we're 5 looking at there are about 135 names on the 6 left-hand side followed by what would appear to be 7 their age, their race, their sex; followed by a 8 column with their job classification; followed by 9 a column -- by a number of columns with numbers. 10 MR. FORMAN: That's the best 11 way to do it. 12 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Does that best 13 describe what we're looking at? 14 A. That basically describes each 15 worker-patient at the time this was done -- which 16 I'm not absolutely sure -- between 1963 and 1967; 17 and further describes the clinical symptoms which 18 they expressed to me; the objective signs which I 19 discerned; and certain laboratory information, 20 basically respiratory physiology information that 21 I obtained'* on them. 22 Q. What was the purpose of putting 23 this graph together at that time? 24 A. The purpose was to serve -as a 25 collection point, as it were, to -- from which I A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 13 1 could derive information. 2 Q. Epidemiological type of 3 information? ' 4 A. Basically for me it was information 5 that I could use to see it more as a picture 6 rather than individuals as such. 7 Q. These weren't in your primary 8 patient treatment records, were they? 9 A. No. 10 Q. This is an extrapolation from your 11 records and your -- 12 A. This is the extrapolation of what I 13 considered to be the pertinent information on each 14 worker-patient. 15 Q. And the purpose of doing this was 16 so that you could look at the worker population as 17 a whole instead of from -- ' 18 A. The purpose of doing this -- really 19 that's probably correct, looking at it as a whole; 20 and also it was -- it was set up so that -- I had 21 ideas at bhat time of writing a paper on it, and 22 it was to serve as a work source you might say. 23 Q. Now, you have individual medical 24 records on each of these 135 people or "thereabouts 25 whose names appear on this window shade? A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., Sc ASSOCIATES 14 1 A. Yes, I do. 2 Q. And this was done sometime after 3 1963? ' 4 A. I believe it was. 5 Q. And there's a second window shade 6 that you brought with you? 7 A. It has basically work on lung 8 function studies. 9 Q. For these same 135 people? 10 A. No. Other people, and some of them 11 are probably the same. I haven't looked at these 12 in years really. 13 Q. This really was a window shade? 14 A. Yeah. That's the way I could - 15 Q. Very ingenious. 16 A. - - t o have something which to 17 tabulate and roll it up and bring it down. 18 Q. Okay. So we're looking at a second 19 window shade, Dr. Wells, that again contains 20 patients' names on the left-hand side; and then it 21 must be 50-odd columns with numbers to the right 22 of the names; is that correct? 23 A. That is "correct. 24 Q. And this was a reporting-of lung 25 functions? A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES A. Lung functions. Q. Did this window shade that we're looking at come after your compilation on the Shade l or were they contemporaneous, if you recall ? A. I think they were done more or less contemporaneous, but I can't tell you specifically and exactly. * Q. But sometime after 1963? A. That is correct. Q. Or thereabouts. MR. MCCONNELL: I don't know what to do with these. I've never been given a window shade at a deposition before. Well, why don't we mark the first one as Plaintiff's Exhibit 8 and mark the second one as Plaintiff's Exhibit 9; and why don't we -- if it's agreeable with all counsel -- give them to the custody of Dr. Wells -- keep them in the custody of Dr. Wells should we need to' look at them at some future time. (Documents were marked for identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit Nos. 7, 8, A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 16 1 and 9.) 2 A. And the last exhibit - 3 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Why don't we 4 hold on one second. ` 5 MR. TISINGER: Let me say I 6 hope I've got these stickers on the 7 right ones. I'll check in just a 8 minute. Let me see. 9 MR. MCCONNELL: I think it 10 will be pretty obvious to us. The one 11 with the 135 names should be the lower 12 number, 8 . 13 MR. TISINGER: It'S 8 . 14 MR. MCCONNELL: And then the 15 second one would be 9. 16 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Dr. Wells, you 17 also brought with you* various loose papers? 18 A. Uh-huh. 19 Q. Can you describe that somehow? 20 A. These are basically copies of 21 documents which Mr. Forman either mailed to me or 22 brought to me in the course of asking questions t 23 about what went on. 24 MR. MCCONNELL: Why don't, we 25 rubber band that stack and we will call A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 17 1 that Plaintiff's Exhibit 10. 2 MR. FORMAN: And some of them, 3 Jack, may have come from these other 4 notebooks as well. It'd all kind of 5 mixed together. 6 A. There's quite a bit of duplication 7 in that stack. 8 MR. MCCONNELL: I've picked up 9 on some of that already, sure. * 10 (Document was marked for 11 identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 10.) 12 MR. MCCONNELL: I think the 13 1984 TLV from the ACGIH was the top 14 piece on the exhibit, so we will put it 15 on that. And just for the record, the 16 stack is about 4 inches high. 17 A. And the last thing I brought is I 18 guess really for historical interest is the Midget 19 Impinger that was used at Hogansville to make all 20 the dust counts down through the years, from 1942 21 to 1972. - 22 Q. We will tag the Midget Impinger as 23 Plaintiff's Exhibit 11; and again if it's 24 agreeable with all counsel, just give t>hat to your 25 custody to keep and hold. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 18 ' 1 A. I would rather have it in my 2 custody, too. 3 (Document was marked for 4 identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 11.) 5 Q . Now, out of historic curiosity, can 6 you show me how this works? 7 A. Yes, sir, I can. 8 Q. First of all, let me ask you: 9 Doctor, did you purchase this yourself? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Who purchased this? 12 A. Uniroyal, U.S. Rubber Company did. 13 Q. Could we, for the sake of the 14 record, could we refer -- because I will have the 15 same problem -- could we refer to the defendant as 16 Uniroyal, realizing that during your period -- a 17 good portion of your time it was known as U.S. 18 Rubber; but when we say Uniroyal -- 19. A. That would be a whole lot simpler. 20 Q. And for me, too, if that's 21 agreeable with counsel. 22 MR. FORMAN: Okay. 23 MR. MCCONNELL: Thank you. 24 A. All right. This is a device that ; " 2 5 operated on suction. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 19 1 MR. TISINGER: Please don't 2 find any asbestos in my office. 3 A. I don't think there's any asbestos 4 here. And the operator simply went around each 5 station, each worker -- and I never did it myself 6 -- and held this with a little sampling device on 7 the end. 8 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) End of the 9 rubber tube? 10 A. At the end of the rubber tubing; 11 and as the worker worked around his loom or 12 whatever he was working on, the sampler walked 13 with him, followed him, lock stepped with him; and 14 moved this thing to create a 10 millimeter mercury 15 of vacuum. And they did it for several minutes 16 and took this collection bottle that was appended 17 to this to the counting room, did certain things 18 with it, put it under the microscope, and counted 19 the dust. 20 Q. Now, you weren't involved in that 21 process at**all, were you? 22 A. I was not. 23 Q. How is it that you have possession 24 of the Midget Impinger? " 25 A. I think it came into my possession A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 2 0 1 simply because in 1972 they had no further use for 2 it and somebody asked me if I wanted it, and I 3 said I sure would like it.* 4 Q. Someone from Uniroyal? 5 A. Yes. You can see I'm not totally 6 familiar with the use of this thing. It takes 7 time to work it. 8 Q. I'm impressed so far. ,, 9 A. But this little thing has quite a 10 history to it. 11 Q. Now, how many Midget Impingers, do 12 you know, prior to 1972 did Uniroyal own for its 13 Hogansville plant? 14 A. To my knowledge this is the only 15 one. 16 Q. There was one. 17 A. The dust was counted using other * 18 Midget Impingers which were supplied by the safety 19 department of Uniroyal operating out of New York, 20 and the Georgia Department of Public Health also 21 came down and checked; and I presume -- I don't 22 know this for a fact -- but I presume they used 23 their own Midget Impinger and counting device and 24 microscope; but as far as the Uniroyal operation 25 was concerned, that is the one that was used for A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 21 1 those 30 years. 2 Q. In the 1940s and '50s and into the 3 '60s, was the Midget Impiiiger that we've marked 4 as Exhibit 11 state of the art for dust 5 collection? 6 A. Yes, it was. It was not only state 7 of the art for Uniroyal but for the entire United 8 States. 9 Q. Okay. Doctor, let me ask you a few 10 background questions. You have had your 11 deposition taken before in an asbestos related ~ 12 case? us#'' 13 A. Once ten years ago. 14 Q. Okay. And that's in the Lois Hurtt 15 case? 16 A. That is correct. 17 Q. And that's the deposition 18 transcript that you provided to us? 19 A. That is right. 20 Q. Was there ever a time that you 21 testified *at a trial or a hearing other than that 22 deposition with regard to Lois Hurtt? 23 A. No, sir: 24 Q. Have you ever testified -in any case 25 involving asbestos in any regard at a deposition, A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 22 1 at a hearing, or at trial other than the Lois 2 Hurtt deposition in 1983? 3 A. Not to my knowledge. I did talk to 4 various attorneys from various places in the early 5 1980s. I kept no record of those talks. 6 MR. TISINGER: But, Doctor, I 7 think he's asking you about actual 8 official proceedings. 9 A. No, okay. ' 10 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) I will be glad 11 to ask you now about the attorneys you spoke to. 12 A. But as I say, I don't think it ever 13 proceeded any further than that. 14 Q. Were some of these attorneys that 15 you saw in the early 1980s from Uniroyal? 16 A. Were some from Uniroyal? 17 Q. Yes, sir, or representing Uniroyal? 18 A. With the exception of Gail Sanders, 19 who represented Uniroyal and worked in New York 20 who came down at or around that time, all of the 21 other attorneys were plaintiffs' attorneys. 22 Q. Do you remember any of their names? 23 A. No, sir, I don't. 24 Q. Do you remember what they discussed 25 with you? A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 23 1 A. They were looking for information 2 regarding specific patients. I think they were on 3 fact-finding missions actually. 4 Q. When was the' first time, sir, that 5 you were contacted by any attorney representing 6 Uniroyal in the case that brings us together 7 today? 8 A. In the case of what? 9 Q. That brings us here today, the 10 Jackson County, Mississippi case. 11 A. I think Mr. Forman contacted me 12 sometime in November 1992. 13 Q. The first letter in a binder that 14 you have marked as -- that we've had marked as 15 Exhibit 5, there's a November '92 letter from Mr. 16 Forman. Would that be at or about the time that 17 you were first contacted by someone representing 18 Uniroyal in the Jackson County, Mississippi case? 19 A. That is correct. Mr. Forman 20 telephoned me first, and then followed with this 21 letter of the 20th of November. 22 Q . W h a t did he tell you or ask of you 23 in November of '92 with regard to the Jackson 24 County cases? - 25 A. He introduced himself by A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 2 4 1 telephone. He said that he was representing 2 Uniroyal in a case that had originated in 3 Pascagoula, Mississippi. 'He asked if I would be 4 willing to discuss with him the information that I 5 had available regarding my participation in the 6 Uniroyal work. I said yes. 7 Q. And he then came to visit with you? 8 A. Then he came to visit. 9 Q. On how many occasions? - 10 A. I think he's been there six or 11 seven times. I fd say six or seven times. 12 Q. Did there come a time when he asked 13 you whether you would be willing to testify on 14 behalf of Uniroyal in the Pascagoula cases? 15 A. I believe there was. I don't 16 recall a specific request, but I'm sure that it 17 was made. - 18 19 about? Q- What did he ask you to testify 20 A. The truth as I knew it. 21 .Q. About what? 22 AV* About the Uniroyal -- basically 23 about my experience at-Uniroyal. 24 Q. And did you agree to comg to 25 Pascagoula or Jackson County, Mississippi to A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 25 1 testify live at trial? 2 A. I didn't really until he told me 3 that I would probably. I'thought it was only the 4 deposition. But he said you'would probably be 5 asked to come to the trial. I said I would 6 probably come, subject to paying my airfare. 7 Q. I assume he agreed to pay your 8 airfare? ,, 9 A. I assume he did. . 10 MR. FORMAN: Maybe a bus. 11 (A discussion ensued off the 12 record.) 13 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Doctor, did he 14 tell you who the plaintiffs were that you would be 15 testifying against if you came to Pascagoula? 16 A. No. 17 MR. FORMAN: Excuse me. I 18 object for the record, testifying 19 against someone. I'm sorry if I 20 interrupted you. 21 _ MR. TISINGER: That was just 22 the sctme comment, just the form of the 23 question T 24 A. He did not tell me who the 25 plaintiffs were. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 2 6 1 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Do you know how 2 many plaintiffs there are? 3 A. I have no idea. 4 Q. Do you know where they worked? 5 A. I have an idea. I think I asked 6 him a question that they represented workers of 7 the Pascagoula Shipyard. I think I recall his 8 saying something about Litton Industries in the 9 first conversation I had with him; but it was 10 relating, as I understood it, to shipyard work at 11 Pascagoula Shipyard during World War II. 12 Q. You don't know the name of any of '^0 13 the plaintiffs? 14 A. I have no idea. 15 Q. Do you know the names of any of the 16 other defendants besides Uniroyal? 17 A. No, sir. I have not asked, and 18 that information was not given to me. 19 ' Q. Let's get a little background. 20 I've reviewed your deposition given in the Lois 21 Hurtt case1, so maybe we can move through this 22 rather quickly. 23 You graduated from Duke with a 24 Bachelor of Science in chemistry? - 2 5 A. That is correct. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 2 7 1 Q. You attended John Hopkins Medical 2 School? 3 A. For the record, that's Johns. 4 Q. Thank you. Someone who spent last 5 year in Baltimore, I should know that. 6 You graduated from the Johns 7 Hopkins Medical School? 8 A. Yes, sir. 9 Q. What year was that, sir? 10 A. 1950. 11 Q. Did you do a residency or 12 internship after the Johns Hopkins Medical School \y 13 A. I did a year of internship and a 14 first year of assistant residency in internal 15 medicine. 16 Q. Where did you do that? 17 A. At Barnes Hospital in Saint Louis 18 at Washington University. And I did a senior 19 assistant residency in medicine and became chief 20 resident of medicine for two years at Vanderbilt 21 University Medical School in Nashville, Tennessee 22 Q. What year did you complete your 23 residency? 24 A. 1954. 25 Q. Dr. Wells, have you ever visited A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 28 1 the Saranac Lake Laboratories? 2 A. I never have. I know people who 3 have spent time there, and I knew something about 4 Saranac; but I've never been there. 5 6 there. Q. Tell me who you knew spent time 7 A. A man named Dr. Ben Branson who 8 preceded me as resident at Vanderbilt and who 9 subsequently became a resident -- a professor in 10 medicine at the University of Alabama, Birmingham. 11 Q. Have you ever discussed testimony 12 in asbestos litigation with Dr. Branson? 13 A. No, I have not. 14 Q. Did you know Dr. Branson has 15 testified in the past in asbestos litigation? 16 A. N o , I didn't. 17 Q. You'v6 never visited Saranac Lake 18 or done any work on behalf of - 19 A. Never have. 20 Q. Where did life bring you after 21 1954? - 22 A. To Newnan, Georgia. 23 Q. How did that happen? 24 A. I suppose I followed a great circle 25 route and came from Baltimore to St. Louis to A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 29 1 Nashville to Newnan via friends. I was looking to 2 practice. I grew up in a big city, as it were, in 3 Baltimore. I was looking to practice in a small 4 community. 5 Q. And friends told you about an 6 opportunity in Newnan? 7 A. That is correct. 8 Q. And what did you do once you first 9 came to Newnan in 1954, hang a shingle and open up 10 shop? 11 A. My wife and I agreed on entering 12 the city limits that this looked like the town 13 that we wanted to live in; and we had no reason to 14 think otherwise as we met people, and I think we 15 took a vacation; and I negotiated for space and 16 opened my practice in July 1954. 17 Q. And ydu opened up as an internist, 18 general practitioner? 19 A. No. As an internist. 20 Q. What states, Dr. Wells, do you hold 21 a license *to practice medicine in? 22 A. Georgia. 23 Q. Only Georgia? 24 A. I held a license to practice 25 medicine in Maryland and Georgia in 1954. As time A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 30 1 went by, there was no reason to keep that ege tor any scare except Georgia, 3 Q. 4 medicine? Are you board certified in internal 5 A. I am in internal medicine, 6 Q. When did you receive your board 7 certification? 8 A. 1968 . 9 Q. Is that the only certification that 10 you hold is in internal medicine? 11 A. That is correct. 12 Q. You are not a radiologist? 13 A. No, sir. 14 Q. You are not an industrial 15 hygienist? 16 A. No, sir. 17 Q. You have no specific training, 18 formal training in asbe stos related disease? 19 A. No speci fic formal training except 20 what I had from Dr. Eug ene Pendergrass who was the 21 professor-of radiology at the University of 22 Pennsylvania on the int erpretation of x-rays of 23 asbestotic patients. 24 Q. And when did that -- - 25 A. That occ urred 1956 or -- late 1956 A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 31 1 or '7 or early 1957. I'm not sure just when. It 2 was at the very outset of the work that I 3 undertook at Uniroyal 4 (A break was taken.) 5 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Doctor, I'm 6 going to show you what's marked for the trial as 7 Plaintiff's Exhibit 3859. It's on United States 8 Rubber stationary. In fact, we found a copy that 9 you turned over to us today. ' 10 I ask you if you've ever seen that 11 document before? It's dated July 25th, 1959. 12 A. I believe I have. 13 Q. And you recognize that as United 14 States Rubber stationary from the Hogansville, 15 Georgia plant at that time? 16 A. Uh-huh. 17 Q. Why don't you describe what that 18 three page document is as you understand it. 19 A. I'll have to look at it and read it 20 again. This is a letter from Mr. A. C. Link that 21 I understood was delivered to each Asbeston 22 employee at his home. 23 MR. MCCONNELL: Just so to 24 record's clear, Asbeston is cap - 25 A-s-b-e-s-t-o-n. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 32 1 A. That was the patented United States 2 Rubber Company for their asbestos operation, and 3 it was a name of a mill in Hogansville that 4 produced asbestos textiles. 5 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) So this was, as 6 you understand it, delivered to the Asbeston 7 employees in July of 1959 individually to their 8 homes? 9 A. That is correct; to each Asbeston 10 employee. And in it Mr. Link went on to say that 11 in order to answer certain questions that had 12 arisen regarding asbestosis and the Uniroyal plant 13 operation and that had arisen in the minds of the 14 workers, their families, and the community he was 15 going to meet with them. These meetings -- I 16 don't know whether he said I would be present or 17 not, but he said he would be and certain 18 management personnel -- and I think I was there at 19 just about all of them, if not all of them -- in 20 small groups, explain to them what -- in small 21 groups period. 22 He went on to say what Uniroyal had 23 done since the inception of the plant in 1942 to 24 safeguard their health, to recognize that there 25 was a dust hazard, to state that they had been A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 3 3 : 1 undertaking means of controlling that dust hazard; 2 the dust hazard being something that they knew was 3 there but they did not know how to define it nor 4 did anybody else at the time. 5 Q. Until you came along? 6 A. Pardon me? 7 Q. I said until you came along? 8 A. I helped define it. 9 Q. Sure. Well, I don't mean to 10 interrupt you; and we're going to get into that in 11 some detail as we go along. But where I am right _ 12 now, it does, in fact, refer to you -- and this 13 was what I want to ask you -- in this letter to 14 the Asbeston employees it says that you are 15 outstanding -- and I don't challenge that in the 16 least right now -- it says that you are a chest 17 radiologist. That's' not correct, is it? * 18 A. I don't think that that is 19 literally correct. 20 Q. You are not board certified -- 21 A. I'm not board certified. I believe 22 that he probably said that on the basis of my 23 instruction and indoctrination from Dr. 24 Pendergrass and from what he understood.of my 25 overall background. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 34 1 Q. But you would not have described 2 yourself in 1959 as a chest radiologist, would 3 you? 4 A. I would not, no. 5 Q. Doctor, let me turn for a minute to 6 some general medical issues. 7 A. Do you want this back? 8 Q. It doesn't matter. Before we get 9 off that because I'm going to forget to ask: What 10 we marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit 1, your 11 correspondence, what exactly is that 12 correspondence of? What caused you to group this 13 series of papers together? Is this everything you 14 received from Uniroyal or sent Uniroyal, is this 15 what makes up that binder? 16 A. Basically I'm a collector. 17 Q . I can tell. 18 A. My wife accuses me of never 19 throwing anything away. And I suppose I've got 20 just about everything somewhere that ever had been 21 done there. This was an effort to put it in one 22 place, the*- communications to and from me and 23 various other* people in an effort to put it 24 chronology order so that I can refer to it. 25 Q. And you did this contemporaneous A. WILLIAM ROBERTS J R ., & ASSOCIATES 35 1 with receiving or sending out a particular * 2 document ? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. And this isn't something you 5 compiled for this litigation? 6 A. No, it is not. 7 (A discussion ensued off the 8 record.) 9 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Dr. Wells, do 10 you agree that the clinical course of a person 11 suffering from asbestosis is insidious and it's 12 marked by a slowly progressive loss of strength, 13 pep, and energy and sense of well-being? 14 MR. FORMAN: For the record, I 15 object to questions of Dr. Wells about 16 current clinical issues. We are not 17 offering him in that area for this-case; 18 but you can answer it if you choose to 19 . do that, Dr. Wells. 20 A. Did I write that? 21 ,,Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Yes, sir 22 Av It sounded familiar. 23 Q. ' Do you agree with that? 24 A. Yes, I do. 25 Q. Do you still agree with that A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 3 6 1 A. Let me say this please, sir: My 2 intermittent, call it that, association with 3 asbestosis has declined over the last ten years. 4 I have no opinions regarding it other than those I 5 formed during the time I was actively involved in 6 the work. I'm not aware -- I have not followed 7 the literature in the last ten years closely. I'm 8 not aware of any basically new information. 9 Q. When you were practicing -in Newnan, 10 Georgia and seeing Uniroyal employees on a regular 11 basis, you described asbestosis as an insidious 12 disease? W- 13 A. It is. 14 Q. And that it has a slowly 15 progressive loss of strength for the worker and 16 their pep and their energy? 17 A. That was part of the subj-ective 18 complaints the workers basically gave. 19 Q. In 1954, Dr. Lonza who came to the 20 Hogansville plant who issued a report as I 21 understand* you've reviewed -- and we'll talk about 22 that -- said that the workers were suffering from 23 very serious anxiety concerning asbestosis. 24 Did you also observe that,? 25 A. To my knowledge, the first patients A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 38 1 operated full blast, 24 hours a day, seven days a 2 week doing government work. 3 Asbestos was a declared essential 4 material. It was under the -- as I understood and 5 understand, it was under the authority of the war 6 production board. 7 Q . Doctor, could I interrupt you just 8 for a second? You were not -- you did not come to 9 Uniroyal until 19 -- 10 A. Not until 1956, but I'm trying to 11 explain the background as I understand it to the 12 question that you addressed to me about the 13 anxiety. 14 Q. But you have no independent 15 knowledge about Uniroyal and who required what in 16 that plant? 17 A. Only through my reading -- 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. -- and what evidence I recall, 20 although not being able to state specific 21 conversations with the people who were there. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. Three basic people, being Mr. Link 24 and Mr. Austin and Mr. Alexander. But at any 25 rate, they were exposed to fairly high dust in the A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., * ASSOCIATES 39 1 war years; and I put in to it that they got the 2 asbestos to work; and they were told what to do 3 with it, and they weren't given much material to 4 apply -he engineering that they wanted to apply. 5 Q. Let me ask you this: From your 6 reading and your knowledge of that period, do you 7 know whether the workers in the 1940s and 1950s 8 before you got there were ever told of the dangers 9 of asbestos as Uniroyal knew it? * 10 A. I cannot give you a specific 11 conversation or a specific document, but I believe 12 that the workers understood that they were working 13 in a potentially dangerous atmosphere. 14 Q. What makes you think that? 15 A. I believe that the patients -- the 16 workers -- the worker-patients thought that the 17 company was attempting through dust control to 18 take care of them. So that when in 1953 the first 19 two patients were diagnosed as having asbestosis, 20 it came as a shock and surprise and a source of 21 concern. * 22 Q. Again, you weren't there? 23 A. I was ntt there. 24 Q. And you had no -- you have no 25 independent knowledge of those -- A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 40 1 A. I have no independent knowledge 2 except the physician of one of the patients, Dura 3 Nell Todd, was a friend of mine and a particular 4 -- and I suppose a graduate of Johns Hopkins with 5 whom I had some contact. 6 Q. Which of the Todds? 7 A. Dura Nell Todd. I talked 8 subsequently -- in 1956 I had occasion to talk 9 with Dr. Neely. His name was Levron Neely. I had 10 occasion to talk with him and obtain information 11 from him about Dura Nell Todd and even obtained a 12 copy of the postmortem examination that was done 13 on her. 14 Because there was a level of 15 anxiety that had arisen and was apparently 16 detected by Dr. Lanza's group, the company 17 undertook to make further consultations. Actually 18 Lanza's group in 1954 was an effort -- I think he 19 came after Dura Nell Todd was diagnosed and after 20 -- who was the other one, Mildred Yates? There 21 was another one that was diagnosed at that time. 22 The company -- let me regress a 23 minute. During the '40s historically they had - -24 and I cannot tell you the specific time sequence 25 except to say during the '40s they had followed A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 4 1 1 the advice of all their engineers who attempted to 2 create an atmosphere of dust control. They 3 followed the advice of the safety executive, Mr. 4 Frederick Sands, Mr. Fred Sands of New York, who 5 also came down and looked at them. They followed 6 the advice of the Georgia Public Health section 7 that was involved in industrial processes. They 8 even had the Georgia Public Health people -- whom 9 I tried to track down in 1983, the department and 10 the people involved. And by 1983, I was told that 11 the original department involved with Uniroyal in 12 the 1940s was defunct. *Sg*5'' 13 Q. Why did you try and track them 14 down? 15 A. I was trying to get some 16 information on what the Georgia Department of 17 Public Health required as a minimal allowable - 18 maximum allowable concentration, the 5 million 19 particles per cubic foot year; and I was trying to 20 get some documentation on that from Georgia. I 21 knew then-what had been recommended nationally, 22 but I wanted to get the Georgia experience; and I 23 could not run it down because people who were 24 working were no longer around. . 25 At any rate, they had Georgia A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 42 1 Public Health people reading x-rays from time "x" 2 through 1948. There was a great level of 3 dissatisfaction, as I understand it, with their 4 reading because they simply didn't get the reports 5 back in time or fashion. 6 So in 1948 they had employed a Dr. 7 Grady who worked in LaGrange and had been the 8 chief of radiology at a major militaryhospital in 9 Washington. I can't think of the name of it. 10 Anybody recall that name? 11 MR. FORMAN: I'm sorry? 12 THE WITNESS: Do you know the 13 name of the place Dr. Grady came from up 14 in Washington? 15 MR. FORMAN: I think it's in 16 the records. I think it's Walter Reed. 17 I don't remember. ~ 18 A. Walter Reed. They employed him to 19 read x-rays, and he did so from 1948 to 1956 when 20 I came on board. They also contacted Dr. Eugene 21 Pendergrass who was professor of radiology at the 22 University of Pennsylvania and well-known and 23 recognized and accepted as an expert and authority 24 on the radiographic interpretation of trhe 25 pneumoconiosis and including asbestosis. And his A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., Sc ASSOCIATES 43 1 apparent job description at that time was to back 2 up and give his interpretation of any x-rays that 3 D r . Grady felt uncertain about, and he did so on 4 numerous occasions. 5 In 1950, they had the -- Uniroyal 6 had the Institute of Industrial Hygiene from 7 Pittsburgh come down and make further 8 recommendations of dust control. There were no 9 specific, as I recall the documents, . . 10 recommendations regarding medical supervision; but 11 there were many recommendations regarding dust 12 control. 13 Q. Doctor, let me ask you: At the 14 time when you're actively involved with Uniroyal, 15 what did you know about the Industrial Hygiene 16 Foundation and its makeup and purpose, if 17 anything? _ 18 A. In the beginning, I really didn't 19 know a great deal about it. It was somewhere 20 along the line my understanding of the Industrial 21 Hygiene Foundation was contributed to or 22 participated in by several different groups or 23 industries, a*s it were, pooled -- this is my 24 thinking or understanding of it -- as i^t were, 25 pool the resources to form this thing. And their A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 44 1 basic job was to look into industrial hygiene. 2 Q. Had you ever heard it referred to 3 as a creature of industry? 4 A. N o , I haven't . 5 Q. Nobody told you that at the time? 6 A. No. I have never heard it referred 7 to nor have I ever seen anything in print. 8 Q. I don't have it with me, but maybe 9 some day I will get a chance to show you. 10 A. Dr. Paul Gross I think was one of 11 the prominent investigators and has worked there 12 and I think several other places; but he's done a 13 great deal of laboratory work investigating 14 exposure at the workplace. It seemed like -- to 15 me, it seemed to be a legitimate place. 16 Q. In fact, you referred to it once as 17 an independent agency, didn't you, in your report? 18 A. I cannot specifically answer your 19 question. If you can show it to me, I can answer 20 you. 21 'Q You said that checks by independent 22 agencies, such as the state of Georgia Department 23 of Health, the Industrial Hygiene Foundation, and 24 the New York Office of U.S. Rubber Company -- and 25 I will show you Page 1 of Plaintiff's Exhibit A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 45 1 6669, 1957-58 report. 2 A. That was my impression at the time. 3 Q. No one at Uniroyal told you 4 anything different than that? 5 A. I had no feeling or thought that 6 Uniroyal had approached them with anything but the 7 desire for better dust control. 8 Q. And they never gave you access to 9 any of the internal Industrial Hygiene -Foundation 10 material? 11 A. No, sir. 12 Q. The question I think we got off on 13 the tangent on was did you - 14 A. What I was trying to do, Mr. 15 McConnell, was lead up to 1953 again, if you will 16 let me just ramble. I will try not to incriminate 17 myself and also give you what you are asking for. 18 They got these people the letter 19 from them, which I -- and in part dated sometime 20 later by the people who came back said that they 21 had, in fact, put the controls into being; and I 22 think the 'lildustrial Hygiene Foundation said -- it 23 may have been the Lanza's group -- that their dust 24 control was at the forefront of the --^was as good 25 as any in the industry. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 46 1 Q. Let me just -- while you mentioned 2 Dr. Lanza's group, let me ask you: At the time 3 what information did Uniroyal give you about Dr. 4 Lanza's background, if any? 5 A. I have a document, a reprint, that 6 came into my possession at a time that I could not 7 quote. I don't know. But it shows work that 8 Lanza had done in 1935 at the request of certain 9 asbestos textile organizations. And all Dr. Lanza 10 said, Lanza, McConnell, and somebody else had said 11 at that time -- ^ 12 Q. No relation. 13 A. -- had said in his reprint was that 14 at the request of certain textile producing 15 people, he had been asked to investigate the 16 asbestosis problem in these mills. He did not. I 17 don't know who the people were that asked him. 18 It's not stated. 19 Q. Were you aware from the 1930s 20 through the 19 -- late '40s or 1950s who Dr. Lanza 21 was employed by? 22 A. It was my understanding from 23 reading that reprint that he was employed by the 24 Metropolitan Life Insurance Company. -- 2 5 Q. And were you given or were you told A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 1 by Uniroyal or anyone else at the time about 2 Dr. Lanza's involvement in editing that 1935 3 report? 4 MR. FORMAN: Excuse me. For 5 the record, I want to object to the form 6 of the question. It's assuming Uniroyal 7 may have had some knowledge about any 8 editing. I don't know if that's been 9 established or not. * 10 A. I don't know. 11 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Did they tell 12 you -- did anyone at Uniroyal ever tell you about 13 Dr. Lanza's involvement in editing the cancer work 14 done at the Saranac Lab in the 1940s? 15 MR. FORMAN: Same objection. 16 A. No. 17 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) So what was 18 your impression of Dr. Lanza in the 1950s when you 19 began working at Uniroyal knowing that Dr. Lanza's 20 group had come in a few years previous to your 21 arrival there? 22 A.s The New York -- let me look at the 23 reference I have here,' please. 24 Q. Sure. Feel free at any-- time, 25 Doctor, to make use of the materials you brought A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 4 8 1 with you. All right. 2 A. He came in. He represented the 3 Institute of Industrial Medicine of New York 4 University, Bellevue Medical Center. Dr. Lanza at 5 that point in time was an unknown man to me. 6 However, I was aware of New York University. I 7 was aware of the Bellevue Medical Center. They 8 were first rate institutions; and coming from 9 there immediately in my mind, Lanza is first rate, 10 doing first rate work. 11 So that when this report of his 12 came into my possession, I was perfectly willing 13 to look at it with an eye -- with a feeling that I 14 was regarding somebody who was authoritative on 15 what he was writing. 16 Q. And no one at Uniroyal told you 17 anything other than that? " 18 A. I never had any pumping by them in 19 that regard. 20 Q. When did the Lanza report from 1954 21 that is Pl-aintiff's Exhibit 3844 come into your 22 possession? 23 A. Which one is that ? 24 Q. The one that' s in front -of you 25 M R . FORMAN: He's just giving A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 4 9 1 you his exhibit number. 2 A. I think it came into my possession 3 sometime early on; and by early on, I mean when I 4 started my work. And that was in late 1956 or 5 early 1957. 6 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) At the time you 7 first started doing work for Uniroyal, late 1956, 8 early 1957, you had an ongoing private practice in 9 Newnan, Georgia? 10 A. That is correct. 11 Q. And there came -- you have 12 previously testified during that period that about 13 25 percent of your professional time was spent 14 with Uniroyal work and about 75 percent of your 15 time was spent in private practice. Is that still 16 your recollection? 17 A. That was the impression a^ked of me 18 ten years ago and that was the top of my head 19 response. 20 Q. What is the majority of your work? 21 ~A. The majority of my work was related 22 to my clin i'ca 1 practice. 23 Q- " Your private practice? 24 A. Private practice. _ 25 Q. Tell me about the first contact you A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 50 1 had from someone and who that was at Uniroyal. 2 A. In 1956 a Mr. Robert Todd came to 3 my office for a complete examination, and he 4 complained fundamentally of peptic type 5 indigestion. And in the course of working him up, 6 I discovered that he had something going on in his 7 lungs. 8 As I recall then, and as I tend to 9 recall since, he pretty steadfastly denied any 10 symptoms relating to his lungs; but for some 11 reason, I had a chest x-ray done. And I 12 discovered this activity going on in his lungs. 13 And the lack of any knowledge to the contrary, I 14 suspected that it was due to asbestosis disease. 15 At that point in time, I knew 16 virtually nothing about asbestosis disease except 17 that it was an occupationally induced i-njury or 18 sickness. 19 Q. Where did you learn that, Dr. 20 Wells, that it was -- that asbestosis was an 21 occupationally induced disease? 22 A. I can't tell you. 23 Q. But as a general practitioner 24 practicing in a town of less than 5,000- in Newnan, 25 Georgia, you -- A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 5 1 1 A. I'd like to say that - 2 Q. I'm sorry. As an internist -- my 3 apologies -- practicing in a small town less than 4 5,000 people in Newnan, Georgia, you were aware - 5 A. Probably closer to 10,000. 6 Q. Closer to 10,000. You are not 7 going to let me get the whole question out, are 8 you? 9 MR. FORMAN: Just let him 10 finish the whole question. 11 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) As an 12 outstanding internist practicing in a small town 13 in Georgia, Newnan, Georgia, you were aware in the 14 early 1950s of a disease known as asbestosis, 15 correct? 16 A. I think that I had heard of it. 17 Q. And you knew that it was- caused by 18 breathing in asbestos dust? 19 A. What I knew or didn't specifically 20 know, I didn't give a lot of thought -- I don't 21 recall giv-ing any thought to it; but in the course 22 of my indoctrination and training over the years 23 of my training, that would become a cause of 24 asbestosis disease. _ 25 Q. And that was throughout the 1940s A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 52 1 and early 1950s that training and indoctrination? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. I'm sorry. So I interrupted you. 4 You did an x-ray on Mr. Todd and you suspected 5 that the changes that you saw in the x-ray were 6 due to asbestosis disease. What happened next? 7 A. It must be remembered that his wife 8 had been diagnosed as having asbestosis disease in 9 1953; and in late 1956 was terminally ill. This 10 of course was something very close to Mr. Todd. 11 Q. Did Mr. Todd tell you that? _ 12 A. Yes, he did, in the course -- that : 13 was something I learned in the course of a routine 14 examination. I took not only the present illness, 15 as it were; but the past history and the family 16 history and everything else about him. 17 Q. You never treated prior -to that 18 time his wife? 19 A. I did not. I never treated prior 20 to that time or subsequent to that time. 21 .Q. Okay. 22 A.` But I did get it. 23 Q. She als*o worked at the Uniroyal 24 Hogansville plant? _ ' 2 5 A . Yes . A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 5 3 : - 1 Q. Go ahead. I'm sorry, again I 2 interrupted you. 3 A. Okay. With what I found and what I 4 knew of his family situation, I wrote a letter to 5 Uniroyal. I don't know right offhand now whether 6 it was to the personnel director, Mr. Alexander or 7 Mr. Link, the plant manager; but somebody in a 8 responsible position recommending that Mr. Todd be 9 removed from the asbestos dust atmosphere because 10 I thought that he had asbestosis. 11 In the course of time, apparently 12 many wheels were rutting. This was my initial 13 impression, my initial contact in the course of 14 time I was asked to come to Hogansville and speak 15 and talk rather with Mr. Alexander and Mr. Link 16 and Mr. Fort who was the assistant plant manager 17 and perhaps Mr. Austin. - 4. . 18 At that time I learned from them 19 that they had a situation of concern on their part 20 that they had had diagnosed two workers with 21 asbestosis. disease, that several others were under 22 a cloud of suspicion; and they wanted me to think 23 about that problem and to make recommendations to 24 them that -- any recommendations that I^might make --r 25 regarding what they should do. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 54 1 Q. You met with a handful of 2 management people at the Hogansville plant? 3 A. Correct. I met with the leading 4 management of the plant. 5 Q. And some of those people told you 6 that they had two workers diagnosed with 7 asbestosis disease and several others under a 8 cloud of suspicion? 9 A. Yes. That's my recollection. If 10 you have something to the contrary, I'd be glad to 11 read it and amend what I said; but that's my ^ 12 recollection. w 13 Q. I have something to the contrary 14 but not to what you are testifying about. Let me 15 show you -- I'm going to show you, Doctor, what's 16 marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit 7192, and a copy of 17 it appears to be in -the material that Mr. Forman 18 sent you that we've marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit 19 10 . 20 And in that material is two pages. 21 And let m$ ask you: Prior to meeting with the 22 attorney fb Uniroyal, had anyone at Uniroyal ever 23 given you Plaintiff's -Exhibit 7192 dated May 10th, 24 1946? _ : - 2 5 A. Until Mr. Forman showed that to me A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR -, & ASSOCIATES 5 5 1 sometime in the last few weeks, that's the first 2 time I ever had any knowledge of it. 3 Q. You would agree with me that the 4 information that's contained in Exhibit 7192 dated 5 May 10th, 1946 - 6 A. This is what you are talking 7 about ? 8 Q. Yes, sir. Differs from the 9 information that Uniroyal management told you 10 personally, Dr. Wells, in your first meeting with 11 them in 1956? 12 A. Yes, it does. 13 Q. And that's because the document 71 14 -- I don't mean to lean over you -- but that's 15 because Document 7192 contains a list of 24 16 workers with first stage asbestosis and 34 workers 17 essentially negative for asbestosis but_ showing - 18 and underline the word more -- fibrosis than last 19 x-ray. You nodded your head? 20 A. What is the question? 21 Q. What I just reflected is what the 22 Document 7192 reflects for 1946? 23 A." That's what it reflects. 24 Q. And the first time you saw that 25 document was -- A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., Se ASSOCIATES 56 1 A. That's not necessarily truly, but 2 that's what it reflects. 3 Q. The first time you saw that 4 document was 19 -- 5 A. '93. 6 Q. While we're into family 7 relationship, let me ask you: Are you related to 8 a Mr. Wells who is captioned on 7192? 9 A. No. I've never even met' him. 10 Q. Do you know who Mr. Wells is or 11 recollect that name from the time? 12 A. I asked. He had something to do 13 with -- I don't really know that I remember the 14 answer. He either was one of the plant engineers 15 or one of the plant safety men. 16 Q. And the copy that you gave to us, 17 Dr. Wells, of 71 -- Exhibit 7192 that MY. Forman 18 had given to you in 1993, there's some handwriting 19 next to the name of Lewin, L-e-w-i-n, Green. Let 20 me show you that, and ask you: First of all, sir, 21 is that your handwriting? 22 A. That's my handwriting. 23 Q. When did you make that handwriting? 24 A. I did that very recently*, 1993. 25 Q. Why did you do that? A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 57 1 A. I was trying to make a connection. 2 First of all, I saw a Buddy Green as an asbestos 3 worker-patient. And I was trying to make the 4 connection with that man, and this is really a 5 memo to myself to identify Lewin Green. That's 6 all. 7 Q. Could you? 8 A. I knew his wife. His wife Nellie 9 Pitts was my patient. 10 MR. TISINGER: Which Green? 11 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Lewin Green No. _ 12 4 on that exhibit? Ntfp? 13 A. Yeah, No. 4 four. I knew many of 14 Nellie Pitts' relatives. It was just basically 15 something I put down when I was trying to identify 16 him in my own mind. " 17 Q. The name stuck out? - 18 A. Yeah. But I never knew the man. 19 Q. Now, you made some notes about I 20 think his date of death. Could you read what you 21 wrote in that -- 22 AV Died 1956 allegedly of asbestosis. 23 Father of Lewis (Buddy) Green, husband of Nellie 24 Pitts. _ / 2 5 Q. Ms. Pitts, is that her maiden name, A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 58 1 Pitts; or did she subsequently marry? 2 A. That was her second husband's name. 3 Q. Now, how did you know that 4 information, that he died in '56 from asbestosis? 5 Did you look up -- did you look that up? 6 A. I think that, as I said, Nellie 7 Pitts was a patient of mine; and I think I got her 8 chart out and looked at it. And upon the 9 information I got was that her husband died in 10 1956 allegedly of asbestosis disease. 11 Q. You wrote that in your medical 12 record and you wrote that on the document that's 13 before you? 14 A. I believe that's where the 15 information comes from. 16 MR. MCCONNELL: I'd like that 17 copy -- or actually it's already _ 18 marked. Why don't we flag that 19 particular copy and mark that -- we're 20 removing three pages from Plaintiff's 21 Exhibit 10, and we will mark that as 22 Plaintiff's Exhibit 12. 23 * (Document was marked for 24 identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 12.) 25 A. Well -- A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 5 9 1 q . While we're talking about it - 2 jumping ahead of where I wanted to be -- but do 3 you recognize any of the other names of the 24 4 people who are listed here in 1946 with first 5 stage asbestosis? 6 A. I recognize D. R. Burch. 7 Q. Tell me about Mr. Burch. 8 A. He was a private patient. I never 9 saw him for Uniroyal. 10 Q. What do you know about his 11 subsequent -- 12 A. I would have to get his chart out 13 to see. I don't recall whether or not he was an 14 asbestosis patient. Essie V. Burch, I knew as 15 Essie Burch who died of carcinoma of the breast. 16 Lewin Green I did not know. 17 Q. Was Essie Burch a patien-t of yours? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Private? 20 A. Both private and Uniroyal 21 worker -patient. 22 'Cf.` Now, D. R. Burch, was he - 23 A. He was -her husband. 24 Q. Was he an Asbeston employee? 25 A. He was, but not when I saw him. He A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 60 1 had retired, and I don't recall why. 2 Q. Okay. Now, how about Mr. Ralph 3 Hornsby? 4 A. Ralph Hornsby was an Asbeston 5 worker who was also a private patient. 6 Q. What do you know about - 7 A. Who as I recall -- and everything I 8 say about these people I have got to say is what I 9 recall, and I have not gotten any of their charts 10 out or scarcely any of their charts out to 11 review. I just simply haven't. 12 Q. I certainly understand that, 13 Doctor; and I appreciate your best recollection 14 today. 15 A. Ralph Hornsby I do not think had 16 asbestosis disease. He had basically a variety of 17 atheroscleroticvascular disease, multi-myocardial 18 infarctions and so on. 19 Lucille Lundsford I never saw as an 20 asbestos patient. 21 ..Q. Did you see her as a private 22 patient? ' 23 A. * I saw her as a private patient. I 24 never could make up my own mind -- I did not make 25 up my own mind during the time I saw her that she A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 61 1 had asbestosis because the x-ray revealed a 2 pattern with which I was not familiar, having 3 developed a type of pattern at Uniroyal. 4 Put that in another frame, I wrote 5 somewhere that in my experience at Hogansville the 6 advent of asbestosis followed a more or less 7 normal maturation progression. Dr. John Knox had 8 written and disagreed with that, but that was my 9 experience; and Lucille Lundsford did not follow 10 the pattern. 11 Q. That you saw in other Uniroyal 12 employees ? 13 A. Pardon me? 14 Q. She did not follow the pattern that 15 you saw -- 16 A. She did not follow the pattern that 17 I had developed. ' * ' 18 Q. From Uniroyal employees? 19 A. From Uniroyal. 20 Q. Do you know whether Ms. Lundsford, 21 L-u-n-s-f~o-r-d, is still alive? 22 A. I don't know. 23 Q. I didn't ask you that. Do you know 24 Alice Johnson, do you know whether Ms. Johnson is 25 alive? A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, J R ., Sc ASSOCIATES 62 1 A. I don't know. I never knew her. 2 Q. And Ralph Hornsby? 3 A. He's dead. 4 Q. What did he die from, if you 5 remember? 6 A. He died from -- I believe he died 7 of a myocardial infarction, a heart attack. 8 Daner Mills, T. B. Neighbors, I did 9 not know. Bessie Powers I'm not sure that I 10 knew. I did know -- I did not know a Powers. I 11 don't recall knowing a Powers with a first name 12 Bessie. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. Clyde Reynolds I knew. I don't 15 recall whether or not he had asbestosis. 16 Q. How did you know Mr. Reynolds? 17 A. As a worker-patient. ,, 18 Q. How many internists were there, by 19 the way, Doctor", in Newnan in the late '50s, early 20 '60s? 21 A. In the early '60s? 22 23 when. Qv If it changes, you can tell me -- - 24 A. When I came, I had to educate 25 certain people that I was not an internist wearing A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR.. & ASSOCIATES 6 3 1 a white suit. 2 MR. TISINGER: You are asking 3 him that as an internal medicine 4 specialist, aren't you? I mean board 5 certified? You are using an internist 6 meaning somebody trained in internal 7 medicine as opposed to family 8 practitioners? 9 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Correct, yeah. 10 How many internists? 11 A. I was the first internist. The 12 second internist came -- Dr. Earnest Barron came 13 in 1962 I think, and so by then there were two of 14 us . 15 Q . Okay. 16 A. Now about ten. 17 Q. So Clyde Reynolds, did you see him 18 as a private 19 A. No. I saw him as a Uniroyal 20 patient. 21 *. MR. FORMAN: Let me ask a 22 question for clarification just to make 23 sure we're on the same page. 24 When you say you do or do not 25 know whether they had asbestosis, are A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 64 1 you talking about at a later time when 2 you saw them and examined them? 3 THE WITNESS: No. I don't 4 recall right now. 5 MR. FORMAN: I mean the time 6 frame when you say I don't know, what 7 time frame are you saying? 8 THE WITNESS: I see what you 9 mean. What I'm saying is I don't recall 10 without specific reference to charts 11 whether or not I ever thought they had . 12 asbestosis. 13 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) You have no 14 recollection? 15 A. I have no recollection. 16 Q. Fine, sure. 17 A. I would like to make a comment 18 regarding some of these now or later on. 19 Q. Let's go through the list. 20 MR. TISINGER: Could we have a 21 break just for a few minutes. 22 ' ' (A break was taken.) 23 Q. (By Mr * McConnell) Dr. Wells, one 24 question I did forget to ask you when ,ye were 25 going through this: Have you ever published any A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 65 1 medical literature about asbestos related 2 diseases? 3 A. I had hoped to, but I simply never 4 got around to it. 5 Q. Now, you had made a note on 6 Plaintiff's Exhibit 12 that Mr. Lewin Green died 7 in 1956 allegedly from asbestosis. Did any of the 8 management people at Uniroyal tell you when you 9 first met with them that one of their employees 10 had died from asbestosis? 11 A. No. I don't recall anybody telling 12 me such a thing, and I don't know that this man 13 died of it. I don't know for a fact that he died 14 of i t . 15 Q. Where did you get the information 16 -- you will agree with me that Mr. Lewin Green is 17 listed on this Uniroyal document as a first stage 18 asbestotic? 19 A. That's what it says. 20 Q. Where did you get your note that he 21 died from asbestosis? t 22 A.* I believe that as I told you, I 23 believe I got1 it from the -- looking in her -- his 24 first wife's -- or his wife's at the time chart. 25 When I took the history, I asked about her family; A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES and I think that she said my husband died in 1956 and probably said I think he had asbestosis disease. That's the source of that information. Q. And your notes say from Mrs. Green's records that she reported to you that her husband died in 1956 from asbestosis? A. You are asking me where it all came from, and this is where I think it came from. Q. We marked as -- A. If on review of my records I find it came from somewhere else, I would have to stand corrected; but that's what I think. Q. That's fine. Plaintiff's Exhibit 6 is a binder that has a case presentation on diffuse interstitial fibrosis of the lung. Where did you make this case presentation? A. Medical society probably. Q. The Medical Society of Georgia? A. Coweta County Medical Society. It might have been at the Fourth District Medical Society. ..I don't recall. It was years ago. "O': So your local group of doctors, your local group of doctors you presented a case to report to them -- _ A. Yes. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 67 1 Q. -- on interstitial fibrosis of the 2 lung; and when was this, Doctor, do you remember? 3 A. I think the patient died in 1967. 4 So I suspect it was at or around that time. 5 Q. Okay. We were reviewing the list 6 71 -- Plaintiff's Exhibit 12, in the trial Exhibit 7 7192, May 10th, 1946; and I think we stopped at 8 Clyde Reynolds, No. 11. 9 Did you know Andrew Resser, Rosser? 10 A. I don't recall nor do I recall 11 Houston Walker. James Wright, I might have 12 known. Right now I just don't recall the name. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. Jack Purgason, Robert Christian, I 15 did not know. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. Gordon Cook I did know. " 18 Q. Tell me about Mr. Cook. 19 A. All right. Gordon Cook did develop 20 asbestosis disease. I cannot specifically tell 21 you when, -but I can specifically and categorically 22 tell you that in 1945 he did not have it. 23 Q. How do 'you know that? 24 A. Because I have an x-ray from 1945 ; 25 and it doesn' t show it, not even what I classified A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 68 1 as the earliest form of asbestosis. 2 Q. When is the last time that you 3 looked at Mr. Cook's x-ray? 4 A. Within the month. 5 Q. 6 look at it? Okay. What made you go back to 7 A. After I got this document. 8 Q. From Mr. Forman, the attorney for 9 Uniroyal? 10 A. From Mr. Forman. 11 Q. Did he ask you to go back and check 12 your records? 13 A. No, he didn't. I was curious. As 14 a matter of fact, I have taken pictures of several 15 series of x-rays in preparation perhaps to make a 16 paper. 17 Q. And was Mr. Cook's one of them? 18 A. Mr. Cook was one of them. 19 Q. So Mr. Cook progressed from a 20 clear, non-asbestotic lung to an x-ray where you 21 could diagnose advanced asbestosis? 22 a y Sure. 23 Q. ** Over what period of time did that 24 change occur? - 25 A. I'd have to get his chart out and A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 6 9 1 look, but over a number of years. 2 Q. But you would agree that in Exhibit 3 7192 Mr. Cook is listed as first stage asbestosis 4 as No. 17 on this document? 5 A. Come again. 6 Q. Mr. Cook is listed under the first 7 stage asbestosis? 8 A. Yes. On Exhibit 12 he was listed 9 as first stage asbestosis, and I would 10 respectfully disagree. 11 Q. In parentheses after that one, it 12 does say beginning first; isn't that right? 13 A. That's what it sa y s . 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. But my x-ray doesn't show anything 16 Q. As you read it? 17 A. As I read it. 18 Q. Somebody at Uniroyal clearly read 19 it different? 20 MR. FORMAN: I object to the 21 f orm.( 22 A." Nobody at Uniroyal read it. It was 23 my understanding that the public health doctors at 24 the time these were done was doing the reading. 25 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) How do you know A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 70 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 * 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that? A. There is a document in here somewhere going over the -- where is that? It's a one or two page document that relates -- I can't find it immediately, but it relates to who was reading the x-rays; and it was the Georgia Department of Public Health. Q. I failed to ask you before. Go back to the list. Above the date it says the word "dispensary." Was there a dispensary at the Hogansville plant? A. There was a dispensary when I began work, and I assume that it had been there previously. Q. Tell me about the dispensary as you knew it in the mid to late 1950s. A. It was a small area run by the plant nurse where she took care of minor -- did minor first aid on the workers and referred them to the local physicians if they needed further work. I don't think she gave shots. I don't think she'-gave any more than an aspirin pill. She did give some medicine under the direction of their physicians, but basically it was just a first aid station. ' A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 71 1 Q. Could you turn to Page 2 of Exhibit 2 12 and ask you if you recognize the name of -- the 3 signature at the bottom. 4 A. I do not know that signature. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. I know who it is, though. 7 Q . Who is it? 8 A. And I found out who it is by asking 9 - - b y calling up a lady in Hogansville and asking 10 her. She said that was Mr. Jim Guy's first wife. 11 Mr. Jim Guy was the plant safety man. 12 Q. Who did you call to find that out? 13 A. The lady who succeeded her as plant 14 nurse, Ms. Grace Hipp. 15 Q. Is Ms. Hipp -- where does Ms. Hipp 16 live currently? 17 A. She 's* retired and living- in 18 Hogansville. 1.9 Q. Hogansville. How long was Ms. Hipp 20 plant nurse? 21 -A. I think she became plant nurse in 22 1947, somewhere at or around that time. 23 Q. Until when? 24 A. Until she retired sometime in the 25 '80s. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR -, & ASSOCIATES 72 1 Q. Did you ask Ms. Hipp if she had 2 ever seen this 1946 document? 3 A. No, I did not. 4 Q. Did you tell her that this came 5 into your possession? 6 A. I told her that I had a document in 7 my possession signed by Charlie Mae Guy and asked 8 her who Charlie Mae Guy was. 9 Q. You didn't tell her about the 10 listing of the asbestotic? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Why don't we go back to the list 13 and ask you about Mozelle Cook, if I'm pronouncing 14 the name correctly. 15 A. Mozelle Cook is Gordon Cook's wife. 16 Q. Were there a lot of husband-wife 17 teams? 18 A. Yes; lots of people. She is - 19 she's still living as far as I know. She not only 20 was somebody whom I saw at Hogansville, but she 21 became a private patient over the years. She had 22 chronic bronchitis. To my knowledge, she never 23 had asbestosis disease. 24 Q. Have you been given any explanation 25 as to -- by anyone, and particularly Mr. Forman, A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, J R ., & ASSOCIATES 73 1 or anyone you've spoken to since this document 2 first came into your possession as to how this 3 list was compiled or who compiled this list? 4 A. It's a mystery to me. I have no 5 knowledge whatsoever. 6 Q. 7 currently? Where is Mrs. Cook living 8 A. In Hogansville. 9 Q. How far is Hogansville from Newnan? 10 A. About 19 miles. 11 Q. Okay. How about Clara Casper? 12 A. That's Cosper. 13 Q. Cosper? 14 A. Clara Cosper is a worker-patient 15 whom I also have an x-ray dating back to 1945 of. 16 She did not have asbestosis by my criteria at that 17 time nor I believe did she ever. . 18 19 Q. Is Ms. Cosper still alive? A. I d on't kn o w . 20 Q. She's not still a private patient 21 -- was she ever a private patient? 22 a :` She never was. 23 Q. So you saw her just at the request 24 of Uniroyal? 25 A. For Uniroyal. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 7 4 1 Q. Okay. How about Lucy Daniel? 2 A. Lucy Daniel is dead. And I do not 3 know what she died of, but she did have 4 asbestosis. It is my recollection that she did 5 not develop evidence of asbestosis until some time 6 in the late '50s or '60s. 7 Q. That's according to your -- 8 A. My criteria. 9 Q. Were you seeing Ms. Daniel as a 10 A. No -- yeah, I think I w a s . I'm 11 sure 12 We went the whole gambit, didn't 13 we? 14 A. Yeah. We covered the water 15 fountain. I saw so many of these people, and it's 16 been some years. I'm not totally clear. 17 MR. T-ISINGER: In fairness to 18 all the parties -- and there are a lot 19 of parties I understand to this case - 20 be careful not to speculate unless you 21 are seasonably comfortable about it; and 22 if you "do speculate, make certain that 23 you say `that you are speculating. 24 THE WITNESS: Are you talking 25 to me or him? A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 75 1 MR. TISINGER: You. 2 MR. MCCONNELL: He tried to 3 talk to me but I wouldn't listen to him. 4 THE WITNESS: I tried to 5 listen to him. 6 Q. 7 Mr. Hammett ? (By Mr. McConnell) How about 8 A. I don't know him. 9 Q. 10 Hammett. Okay. Or Ms. Hammett, E .. D. 11 A. I don't know the name. 12 Q. How about James Henson? 13 A. I recall seeing him. I cannot tell 14 you anything about him. 15 Q. Preston Hornsby? 16 A. Preston Hornsby I saw for Uniroyal 17 and also over the years as a private pa_tient. 18 Q. Is he related to Ralph Hornsby? 19 A. His brother. 20 Q. 21 alive? .. Okay. Is Mr. Preston Hornsby still 22 'a : No, sir. He died of a stroke. 23 Q. ** How about Lois Jackson? 24 A. I knew a Jackson by another name. 25 I don't know a Lois Jackson. . A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 7 6 1 Q. How about -- we've now gone through 2 the 24 names under first stage asbestosis. The 3 next one is unclassified, and the name there is 4 the name Lillie S. Walburn. 5 A. I don't know that person. 6 Q. Okay. Do you know -- you were 7 deposed in the Lois Hurtt case. Do you know Mrs. 8 Hurtts' maiden name? 9 A . N o , I don't . 10 Q. You have no reason to disagree if I 11 were to tell you that her maiden name was Jackson? ***th, 12 A. I have no reason to agree or 13 disagree. 14 Q. You could review your records 15 probably and find her maiden name? 16 A. I don't know that I could. I 17 didn't normally ask married women what -their 18 maiden name was. 19 Q. You were ahead of your time, 20 weren't you? 21 vA. The second part of that -- and I've 22 got to disagree with my attorneys' rules briefly 23 -- I can't find Lois Hurtt's chart. 24 Q. You've gone back to look for it and 25 just can't find it? A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 77 1 A. I've gone back to look for it. 2 Q. I don't remember from reading your 3 deposition, did you have it in 1983 when you were 4 deposed? 5 A. Sure did. May I say something 6 else? 7 MR. TISINGER: Go ahead. I 8 don't think I'm going to stop you. 9 MR. MCCONNELL: He's just a 10 potted palm in the legal profession. 11 THE WITNESS: I apologize, but 12 there's so much I do recall. ?. 13 A. In that deposition there was 14 something they referred to as an accordion folder 15 which had a lot of information about Ms. Lois 16 Hurtt; and at the end of that deposition, the 17 information that I had brought to it was submitted 18 for copying. The fact that I don't have it makes 19 me wonder if I ever got it back. 20 Q. Okay. 21 A. The fact that I can't find it at 22 any rate. 23 Q." Let me,-- we will make a copy of 24 this afterwards and show you a document and ask 25 you -- forget the writing on it, but ask if you A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 78 1 can describe the form and ask you if that's 2 something that 's familiar to you. 3 MR. MCCONNELL: I will show it 4 to Mr. Forman first. 5 MR. FORMAN: What's the 6 question? 7 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) I asked you if 8 you recognize that form. 9 A. I do not recognize it. .. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. Lois Jackson is Lois Hurtt? 12 Q. I'd like for you to tell me that. 13 A. I don't know. 14 MR. TISINGER: That's been 15 marked as an exhibit. Maybe you better 16 not write on it. 17 MR. MCCONNELL: Yeah. You best 18 not. 19 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Let's just do 20 this while w e 1re at it. Do you mind if I come 21 around the.re, Doctor? 22 X-.' N o . *k MR. MCCONNELL: We will have 24 these both marked, Rick. We will mark 25 this as Plaintiff's Exhibit 13. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES to .to 79 1 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Lois Jackson's 2 name appears as the employee on an x-ray card, 3 x-ray survey record; and her identification number 4 is 258-10-1246; is that correct? 5 A. That's what it says. 6 Q. Okay. Let me show you what we will 7 mark as Plaintiff's Exhibit 14. 8 MR. FORMAN: Can we just mark 9 the whole folder? 10 MR. MCCONNELL: No; only 11 because this is some of my -- I should 12 have just pulled these. This is my 13 work. 14 MR. FORMAN: Well, I would 15 object to marking things out of 16 context. I think we ought to mark the 17 whole folder because there may be other 18 documents in there that pertain to 19 those; and it's obvious that these are 20 records pertaining to it. 21 ^ MR. MCCONNELL: Yeah. As long 22 as I nan go through it to make sure none 23 of our ri'otes are in there, sure. Let's 24 mark this as 14; and then we will mark 25 the whole compilation as 15. And 15 ' A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 80 1 will be the material on Lois Jackson 2 Hurtt. 3 (Documents were marked for 4 identification as Plaintiffs Exhibit Nos. 13, 14, 5 and 15.) 6 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Do you 7 recognize the document captioned engagement slip? 8 A. I do not. 9 Q. The name on that is Lois J. Hurtt, 10 H-u-r-t-t. 11 A. I see that. 12 Q. And is that was your -- Mrs. Hurtt, 13 Lois J. Hurtt, who later became your patient or 14 was referred to you by Uniroyal? 15 A. No. She was seen almost 16 exclusively for Uniroyal. I saw her on one 17 occasion briefly on an office visit relating to 18 something that had nothing to do with asbestosis. 19 Q. Mrs. Hurtt suffered from asbestosis 20 when you examined her? 21 .A. Not initially. 22 At some point in time? 23 A. ` At some point in time, yes. 24 Q. And the number on the document that 25 says Document 14, Lois J. Hurtt is 258-10-1246, A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 81 1 which is the same number as the x-ray card for 2 Lois Jackson as shown on Plaintiff's Exhibit 13? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. Okay. I show you what's been 5 marked as Exhibit 15 and ask you -- these are very 6 bad reproductions -- but is that the Lois J. Hurtt 7 that you knew in Xeroxed form? 8 A. I do not recognize her as anybody. 9 Q. Okay. Doctor, let's see .if we can 10 sort of quickly go through the 34 people who are 11 named under the heading essentially negative for 12 asbestosis but showing more -- and more is 13 underlined -- fibrosis than the last x-ray; and my 14 question on each will be; Do you know the person, 15 and are they still alive, and did they suffer when 16 you saw them from asbestosis? 17 A. The first four I don't recognize. 18 Roy Cornwell I did see for Uniroyal, and he did 19 develop asbestosis. I do not know when he 20 developed it, I don't know. I think he is dead. 21 .. Numbers 6 and 7 are names that I do 22 not recognize. 23 Q. Elmira Creppe and Homer Dodson. 24 A. That's correct. Roxie Evans, I 25 think Roxie Evans is one of the first two who came A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 82 1 down with aabestosis. I never saw her for 2 Uniroyal. I did see her as a private patient. 3 Q. I'm a little confused. Doctor. 4 What do you mean was one of the first two who came 5 down with asbestosis? That you examined? 6 A. No. 7 Q. That they told you about? 8 A. We referred earlier to two people 9 who had been diagnosed as having asbestosis in 10 1953 . 11 Q. That's what the management at 12 Uniroyal told you during your first meeting with 13 them? 14 A. I think so. I think Roxie Evans 15 was one of them. I know Dura Nell Todd was the 16 other. 17 Q. So they only told you about Dura 18 Nell Todd and Roxie Evans when you first met with 19 the Uniroyal officials in 1956? 20 A. I believe Roxie Evans was the 21 second one. 22 Okay. That's fine. Is Ms. Evans 23 still alive?" ^ 24 A. No, she is not. 25 Q. Why don't we turn the page and A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES start at No. 9. A. W. C. Fuller is a name I don't recognize. Will Gilley I did know. I don't recall whether he developed asbestosis or not. Q. Do you know if he's alive? A. I do not know. I don't think he is, but I don't know. He was an older man at the time. So I suspect he's not. Naomi Gray I did not know. Florence Green -- I knew several Greens, but I don't recollect that one. Grady Higgins, Joe Hyatt, Moreland Kelley, Rufus Lowe I did not know. Cleey Montgomery I believe I saw for Uniroyal. I don't think that I thought she had asbestosis disease. I do not know if she is living. If I say, Mr. McConnell, I don't think that anybody had it, that's subject to review of the records; but this is my recollection. Q. That's fine, sir. Thank you. I appreciate, that. X.s Erma Lee McDonald was seen by me at Uniroyal. She became a private patient, and she died of coronary thrombosis. Q. When you say -- and I guess I A. WILLIAM ROBERT.0 , JR., & ASSOCIATES 84 1 should have asked you this before, when you saw 2 someone at the request of Uniroyal, did you see 3 them at your private office or did you go to 4 Hogansville? 5 A. No. Basically I saw them at 6 Hogansville. 7 Q. Where did you work out of? 8 A. In the dispensary. 9 Q. That's fine. Go ahead. Did you 10 maintain -- let me ask you: Did you maintain 11 files on people that you saw for Uniroyal at your 12 private office? 13 A. It was in the same file folder. 14 Q. As you would do a private patient? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. Vera McKeen, I don't recall that 18 name. Clarence McCambry I don't recall. Frank 19 Ragland I did see. I recall him. I think he had 20 asbestosis. I don't know if he's living. 21 . Trenton Raughton I don't 22 recognize/'-`Davis Reid I don't recognize. Annie 23 Margaret Sanders I did see for Uniroyal. Whether 24 or not she had it, I don't recall. I don't know 25 if she's living. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS J R ., & ASSOCIATES 8 5 1 Emma Ruth Shellnut I recall; and 2 again, I don't recall whether she has asbestosis. 3 Q. Do you know if she's alive? 4 A. Nor if she's alive. Alfred 5 Shierling, Etta Shierling, Mildred Sloman, Mattie 6 Stevens, Clastelle Talley, Sally Ruth Thrash, 7 Curtis Turner, and Mildred Stone I do not recall. 8 Dura Nell Todd I was introduced to 9 by her husband. I did not see her as a.patient. 10 I'm trying to understand what this meant when I 11 saw her. I would point out a question regarding 12 the interpreter or the man who dictated these 13 things, I presume would be the man who interpreted 14 the x-rays. 15 Q. Let me ask you that: You don't 16 know that? 17 A. Well, the man who -- it would have 18 to be the report of who interpreted -- whoever 19 interpreted the x-rays that was quoted here. 20 Somebody, a doctor, I would assume had to say this 21 patient had asbestosis. 22 Okay. 23 A. * I raise a question regarding the 24 doctor's ability to interpret asbestosis by the 25 x-ray inasmuch as he's saying in this second group A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 86 1 of 34 people that they were essentially negative 2 for asbestosis but showing more fibrosis; and 3 fibrosis is the disease of asbestosis. I would 4 submit from my standpoint that he didn't really 5 know what he was looking at. 6 Q. You have never seen a document - 7 A. I've never seen this before. 8 Q. You've never seen that? 9 A. No, sir. . 10 Q. No one at Uniroyal ever gave it to 11 you? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Do you wish they had? 14 MR. FORMAN: Object to the 15 fo r m . 16 A. I don't know that it would have 17 made any difference to what I did. 18 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) But they 19 clearly didn't pass this information on to you? 20 A. It was not passed on to me. 21 .Q. And they gave you information that 22 counters -*-`*is different than the information 23 contained in "this document? 24 A. That's correct. 25 Q. And you know of no document between A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 87 1 1946 and the 2 that anyone 3 currently or 4 information 5 A. No document. 6 (t : 7 Q. 8 welcome back 9 A. 10 Q. 11 Exhibit 6 a i 12 some medical 13 A. '^SS? 14 yeah. 15 Q 16 report on in 17 correct? 18 A. She had no association at all with 19 asbestos. 20 Q. She never worked at Hogansville? 21 N, A. N o . 22 *Q* She had no known asbestos exposure? 23 A. She was a secretary from Alabama, 24 as I recall. 25 Q. I have not had a chance to review A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 88 1 this. We just received it this morning. What was 2 your opinion of the cause of interstitial 3 fibros is ? 4 A. Idiopathic. I had no idea. 5 Q. How did you rule out asbestos as 6 the cause? 7 A. You couldn't rule it out. And 8 again, I haven't read that recently; but in order 9 to make the diagnosis of asbestosis, you've got to 10 be certain of exposure to asbestos; and I had no 11 reason for expecting that. 12 Q. Because she didn't report a history 13 to you of asbestos exposure? 14 A. As I recall she did not. 15 Q. You say in here, I think it's 16 consistent with what you said, that it brought a 17 striking resemblanceto the type of pulmonary 18 fibrosis secondary to asbestos exposure seen in 19 this area. 20 A. (Witness nods head affirmatively.) 21 - MR. TISINGER: You have to 22 answer out loud. 23 A . Yes . 24 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) You jnay have - 25 I apologize, you may have said this: What type of A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 89 1 office setting was it, do you know? 2 A. I don't know really. 3 Q. You don't know if it was affixed to 4 a plant? 5 A. I have no idea. It was -- she was 6 an office secretary; and whether she was close to 7 a plant or in the middle of town, I don't know. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. I don't recall at any rate. 10 Q. Okay. But she had no relationship 11 at all to Hogansville? 12 A. As far as I know she did not. 13 Q. And you produced it today just 14 because it dealt with the topic of fibrosis? 15 A. That's correct. 16 Q. Let's turn to your report in 19 - 17 your review in 1957 and 1958. . 18 (A discussion ensued off the 19 record.) 20 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Tell me about 21 what you initially were asked to do by Uniroyal 22 such that this document was produced. 23 A. They asked me if I would be 24 interested in -- no, they didn't. They^asked me 25 what I would recommend they do as regards the A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 90 1 medical program. They said that they had a dust 2 count data bank. They said that they had the 3 x-ray data bank. They had had no formal medical 4 examination program. The examinations had been 5 done by local physicians. There was no 6 correlation therefore between the workers' medical 7 health history and findings and the data that 8 related to their x-ray changes and dust count 9 accumulation. . . 10 Q. Let me just stop you for a second, 11 Doctor. In all of your medical training and 12 conversations you had with Uniroyal people before 13 you conducted this or before you put together your 14 report, do you know whether such a correlative 15 study comparing medical condition with dust counts 16 had ever been done before? 17 A. I didn't at the time. . 18 Q. You had never known that this -- 19 . A. I did not at the time. 20 Q. Okay. I'm sorry, go ahead. And no 21 one at Uniroyal told you that they knew of any 22 that existed? 23 A. They did not. 24 Q. Okay. I'm not implying that they 25 A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 9 1 1 A. Yeah. 2 MR. FORMAN: Let me ask for 3 clarification. Are you talking about 4 other than the Lanza report? I'm not 5 sure what you mean by that. 6 MR. MCCONNELL: I think I got 7 my answer so I'm -- 8 MR. FORMAN: I'm just not sure 9 if you understood what he was asking 10 because I think he's told you he was 11 aware of the Lanza report. 12 THE WITNESS: I was aware of v,-.. 13 it. When I went down to make this 14 recommendation, I was not aware of it. 15 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) When were you 16 given the Lanza report? 17 A. I don't know. . 18 Q. Now, you didn't just duplicate what 19 Dr. Lanza did in 1954? 20 A. I do know this: I was given the 21 Lanza 1953-'4 report after I submitted a 22 recommendation to them. I did not know that, in 23 essence, they said whart I said. 24 Q. Okay. They did not have,, the ;T- 2 5 correlative data presented in that Lanza report A. WILLIAM ROBERTA, JR., & ASSOCIATES 92 1 that you have in your '57-'58 report? 2 A. No. The Lanza report did tabulate 3 the dust count data, but it made no attempt to 4 correlate the x-rays and the clinical status of 5 the individual workers. 6 Q. And as far as you know, that was 7 the first time that had been done, to correlate 8 the dust count data with the medical data? 9 A. That's the first time I saw any 10 record of it. 11 Q. And to this day, you've never seen 12 any study that precedes your '57-'58 report that 13 correlates dust count with medical data, have you? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Okay. And, in fact, doesn't Dr. 16 Lanza -- if you could turn to the Lanza report on 17 Plaintiff's Exhibit 3844 dated January 5th, 1954. 18 A. I've got it here somewhere. 19 Q. If you don't, I can gladly give you 20 a copy. I thought it was in this book. 21 .. MR. FORMAN: Here it is. 22 'AV New York, oh, okay. 23 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) If you would 24 turn to Page 2. In the fourth paragraph, it 25 says: The findings however existed largely as A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 9 3 1 separate facts and had not been brought together. 2 In other words, neither the results of clinical 3 and radiological examination nor of industrial 4 hygiene survey had been assembled in a form where 5 they might be integrated. 6 That's, in fact, what you did in 7 '57 and '58, isn't it? 8 A. That's correct. 9 Q. That's the very information that 10 Dr. Lanza in 1954 said was missing. You did it 11 in '57 and '58? 12 A. That's right. 13 Q. Okay. First of all, when did you 14 actually author the '57 and '58 report? 15 A. It was either in the latter part of 16 1958 or early part of 1959. 17 Q. You don't have a specific - 18 A. I don't have a stamp that gave the 19 specific time. 20 Q. And just so the record's clear, 21 when we re-fer to your '57 and '58 report, we're 22 referring to Plaintiff's Exhibit 6669 for the 23 record. 24 Your '57-'58 report was a form of 25 an epidemiological study, wasn't it? A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 94 1 A. I suppose you could characterize it 2 that way, but it was not meant strictly speaking 3 to be an epidemiological study. It was simply 4 meant to describe what was going on at the 5 Uniroyal plant in Hogansville. 6 Q . Over -- 7 A. Over a period of time. 8 Q. On a broad-range basis? 9 A . Yes . 10 Q. Including dust counts for over - 11 A. 15 years. 12 Q . 15 years, a decade and a half, and 13 over a hundred and a half workers? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Okay. Let me just show you 16 Plaintiff's Exhibit 6669 and ask you -- it appears 17 to be an 18-page report I will show it -to your 18 attorney first, Doctor; and then we will show it 19 to Mr. Forman. I'm merely going to ask you: Is 20 that the report that you authored for Uniroyal in 21 the '58-'59 time frame? 22 A. This is the report. 23 Q. This is the report. That's a true 24 and accurate copy of the report that yau -- 25 A . I think it i s . A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 95 1 Q. -- authored in '58 and '59 for 2 Uniroyal; yes, sir? 3 A. Y es, s i r . 4 MR. MCCONNELL: Why don't we 5 -- we will have a copy of that marked 6 as Plaintiff's Exhibit 13 -- no, 16. 7 MR. BUICE: I think David was 8 fulfilling that function, as I recall. 9 He had them dated and everything. - 10 (Document was marked for 11 identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 16.) 12 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Doctor, who did 13 you submit your report to? 14 A. At Hogansville you mean? 15 Q. Yes, sir. 16 A. I believe that they were sent to 17 the personnel man. They were sent to Uniroyal. 18 My secretary addressed them, and I don't believe I 19 ever looked at an envelope that she used to 20 address them; but they were sent to basically the 21 man in charge of industrial relations and Mr. 22 Link. 23 Q. Who was the man in charge of 24 industrial relations? ,, 25 A. That was John Alexander. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 96 1 Q. Who physically typed the report, 2 someone in your office or somebody - 3 A. Someone in my office. 4 Q. And who reproduced it, someone in 5 your office or someone at Uniroyal? 6 A. What do you mean reproduced? 7 Q. Made a copy of it. 8 A. For whom? 9 Q. Okay. That's a good question. You 10 one - 11 A. I'm not trying to be - 12 Q. No, no, I understand. You had the 13 original done and typed at your office? 14 A. She typed it in duplicates. She 15 had a carbon paper. 16 Q. A little before my time. You 17 didn't just throw it in the word processor. 18 A. We didn't have one. 19 Q. Who did you send the original to? 20 A. I sent the original to Hogansville, 21 and that was -- I think it went to the industrial 22 relations man. 23 Q. And who" did you send the carbon 24 papered copy to? 25 A. I sent it to my chart. I kept it A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 9 7 1 as a record. - 2 Q. Okay. And then did you also make 3 another copy for Mr. Link? 4 A. Oh, no. 5 Q. So you sent one copy to Uniroyal? 6 A. I sent one copy to Uniroyal. 7 Q. You kept one copy? 8 A. I kept one copy. 9 Q. And the copy that is in Plaintiff's 10 Exhibit 1 of your notebook that you produced 11 today, is that the original copy of your '57 -'58 12 report? 13 (A discussion ensued off the 14 record.) - 15 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) ]Doctor, before 16 we broke I had asked you is that the original 17 carbon copy to your knowledge that' s in your book 18 marked Plaintiff's Exhibit 1? 19 A. I believe it is, but I wouldn't 20 swear to it; but it's -- I think we made only one 21 carbon copy of anything. Sometimes she made two 22 carbons, but this comes through clearly enough to 23 probably be the first carbon. 24 Q. Okay. You'd agree with "me, Doctor, 25 wouldn't y o u , that your '57-'58 report was a very A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 98 1 significant study? 2 MR. FORMAN: Object to the form. 3 A. I would say, yes. It was 4 significant for us; and insofar as for the first 5 time brought U.S. Rubber Company's information 6 together. It was a point reference in the point 7 of departure. 8 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) You are proud 9 of that study, aren't you? 10 A. Yes. I have no reason not to be. 11 Q. Do you know, Doctor, whether - 12 A. I never looked at it as something I 13 was proud about. But if you asked me am I proud, 14 I am. I thought a good job was done. 15 Q. I think a lot of people will agree 16 with you. 17 A. Sure.- _ 18 Q. Do you know whether Uniroyal 19 considered your report a confidential report? 20 MR. FORMAN: Object to the 21 formv 22 *''``` MR. BUICE: Doctor, I'll just 23 ask you a question: Do you know what 24 somebody else considered? 25 THE WITNESS: No, I don't know. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 99 1 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Did people 2 Uniroyal ever tell you that they considered it 3 confidential report ? 4 A. N o . I don't think that I put 5 confidential on it, no . I'm pretty certain 6 without factual knowledge that it had distribution 7 throughout the company to people who should have a 8 need to know. 9 Q. Do you have any personal knowledge 10 of whether that report was ever distributed 11 outside the company? 12 A. I do not. 13 Q. You do not know whether - 14 A. I do not know whether or not it was 15 distributed. 16 Q. No one at Uniroyal ever asked you 17 to present that report to anyone outside the 18 company? 19 A. I think I have to answer you this 20 way: They didn't ask me to present that report, 21 but they did ask me to go to specialists textile 22 institute meetings and tell other physicians from 23 other companies what we were doing. 24 Q. We will get to that, ATI", in a 25 second. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, J R ., & ASSOCIATES 100 1 A. That's the closest I can^say that 2 they asked me to do that. 3 Q. You were never asked permission by 4 anyone at Uniroyal to publish that report? 5 A. No. I asked and received 6 permission when I originally started doing work 7 for them for the right to publish if I accumulated 8 sufficient knowledge or sufficient information to 9 publish. I did have that right. 10 Q. Did people at Uniroyal have that 11 right? 12 A. Well, it was my work. So I presume V5&S? 13 -- I don't know how to answer that question. 14 Q. Uniroyal paid for your time in V 15 putting that report together? 16 A. They paid for my time and going 17 down and seeing patients. I presume that the fee 18 that they paid me was compensation for everything 19 X did. But I wasn't asked to get a report like 20 this out to them. I simply did it because it was 21 -- I thought it was something to do that needed X _ s 22 being done. % 23 Q. No one from Uniroyal told you that 24 Dr. Lanza in 1954 had recommended this -very type 25 study to be done before you did the report? A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 101 1 A. No. I can't exactly tell you what 2 the time sequences are. I can tell you this: 3 That when I made the original presentation to them 4 and told them what I thought should be done and 5 they accepted that as a premise on which to 6 operate, they had not told me that they had that 7 recommendation by Lanza's group before. 8 I suppose when I subsequent 9 into possession of Lanza's report that my saying 10 what they had previously recommended corroborated 11 the idea and fortified it in their mind and made a 12 long background of developing events down there 13 resolved to go ahead and do it. 14 Q. But nobody at Uniroyal asked you to. 15 put together this correlative report comparing 16 dust counts with medical records? 17 A. No. It was my recommendation to 18 them, and I think I've got a letter here 19 somewhere. 20 THE WITNESS: Do you know 21 where* it is, Rick? 22 MR. FORMAN: I'm not sure 23 which it is. 24 MR. BUICE: Do you want Jiim to 25 look for that letter, or would you A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 102 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 ..17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 rather go ahead? - MR. MCCONNELL: He can look for it. That's fine. A. Dear Mr. Link, I think this is it. Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Could you give us the date on the letter, Doctor. A. December 17th, 1956. Mr. Link - do you have that copy? Q. I'm going to look. No, I do not personally. That doesn't mean - A. I would be most happy to initiate a medical program in your asbestos division intended to detect and hopefully to prevent the advent of serious pulmonary disease. It would be of necessity a long-range program with emphasis on careful history and physical examination, basic laboratory studies and serial chest x-rays. Because of the job, quote, unquote, job -threatening implications of this work, it seems especially important in the beginning that time be ta'ken for education and reassurance that these medical examinations are being done at the company's expense for the benefit of the workers. Q. This is your letter? ~ A. This is my letter to him. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, J R ., & ASSOCIATES 103 1 Q- And this is your recommendation? 2 A. These are my recommendations. 3 Q. Doctor, to your knowledge, was your 4 -- has your report ever been published? 5 A. N o . 6 Q. By anybody? 7 A. Huh-u h . 8 Q. At any time? 9 A. If it has been, I don't know; and I 10 wouldn't think that anybody would publish my work 11 without my knowledge. 12 Q. Okay. Do you know whether your 13 report has ever been -- was ever provided in the 14 1950s or the 1960s to the ACGIH? 15 A. I had several dealings with Dr. 16 Lewis Cralley, several conversations with him I 17 should say. And certain members -- whose names I 18 don't recall -- of the Georgia Department of 19 Public Health started in the early '60s and during 20 the '60s, during that time Dr. Cralley was 21 initiating a program. 22 Q. Doctor, could I stop you just for a 23 second and maybe I wasn't clear. Dr. Cralley was 24 with the United States Public Health Service? 25 A. United States Public Health A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 104 1 Service. 2 Q. In asbestos litigation, we let our 3 alphabet soup get to us and think everyone knows 4 what we're referring to. Let me rephrase it. 5 Was your 1957-'58 report ever 6 provided to anybody in the American Congress of 7 Governmental and Industrial Hygienist, the ACGIH, 8 or its TLV, Threshold Limit Values Committee? 9 A. To my specific knowledge, did 10 somebody tell me it was, I don't have that 11 knowledge. 12 Q. You don't know or you have not seen 13 anything that leads you to believe that anyone at 14 Uniroyal ever provided your '57-'58 report to 15 anyone involved with the TLV committee at the 16 ACGIH; is that correct? 17 A. I don't know that they d-id. 18 Q. I'm sorry. You don't know that 19 they did, is that what you said? 20 A. I know that Dr. Cralley of the 21 United Sta-tes Public Health Service wanted 22 Uniroyal to participate in a long-range program 23 that he had that did something similar to what I 24 had been doing and was doing. _ 25 For various reasons when they asked A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 105 1 me, I said to Uniroyal, I don't think that 2 Uniroyal -- it would be in Uniroyal's best 3 interest to participate in that. But I dothink 4 that everything that we have developed should be 5 made available to Dr. Lewis Cralley and his 6 group. Dr. Lewis Cralley was I think he either 7 was U.S. Governmental Industrial Hygienist or at 8 least he conversed with them. 9 Q. Do you know whether Uniroyal - 10 A. I was -- somewhere along the line 11 it came to my awareness that Uniroyal had given 12 U.S. Public Health Service certain data pertaining 13 to the information developed at Hogansville. What 14 data they gave them, I do not know. Exactly when . 15 they did it, I don't know; but I think it was 16 around 1970 or thereabouts. 17 Q. You have no knowledge at-all, do 18 you, Doctor, that Uniroyal ever in the 1950s or 19 1960s gave your report to anyone at the United 20 States Public Health Service, do you? 21 '-A. I don't have any definite 22 knowledge. 23 Q. And you have no knowledge that 24 anyone at Uniroyal ever gave your '57-'58 report 25 to anyone with the ACGIH or its TLV committee? A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 10 6 1 A. I do not know. . 2 Q. In fact, you have no knowledge at 3 all, do you, Doctor, whether anyone at Uniroyal 4 ever gave your report to anybody outside of the 5 company, do you, your report? 6 A. I have no knowledge that they gave 7 my specific 16, 20 page, whatever it is, report. 8 I do have knowledge that they asked me to meet 9 with other doctors of other textile -- asbestos 10 textile producing industries and share our 11 experience with them. 12 Q. The data, the actual physical data 13 that's contained in your report, the numbers, was 14 not shared with anyone outside of the company by 15 anyone from Uniroyal? I don't mean you, sir, 16 right now. By anyone - 17 A. I do not know. " 18 Q. Okay. You were aware, were you 19 not, sir, in the late 1950s that the ACGIH TLV 20 committee had set a maximum permissible standard 21 for asbestos exposure? 22 A. I don't know when I became aware of 23 it, but I was aware of'the maximum admissable 24 concentration of 5 million particles per- cubic 25 foot year. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 10 7 1 Q. You clearly knew prior to writing 2 your report that a body had promulgated 5 million 3 particles per cubic foot as the TLV; isn't that 4 correct ? 5 A. I don't even think TLV was in the 6 literature at that time. If it was, I didn't know 7 it. It was called maximum allowable 8 concentration, MAC; but it was the same thing. 9 Q. You were aware that a body outside 10 of Uniroyal had promulgated or put forth 5 million 11 particles per cubic foot as the maximum allowable 12 concentration of asbestos? V 13 A. Yes. I was aware or became aware. 14 I don't know the specific date. 15 Q. And you'd agree with me that your 16 report shows instances of disease below the 5 17 A 18 million particles per cubic foot maximum allowable concentration in the late 1950s? 19 MR. FORMAN: Object to the 20 form. I don't believe it says that. 21 'A. I don't know without going back to 22 this that I would agree with that. It shows 23 incidences of disease -- I will stand corrected on 24 revised reading -- but I don't think th^t anybody 25 that I reported as having asbestosis disease had A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 108 1 been uniformly and throughout their career 2 subjected to exposure of less than 5 million 3 particles of cubic foot year. I think all the 4 people that I thought had asbestosis disease had 5 been, in fact, exposed to greater doses. 6 Q. Where did you come up with the 7 addition to the 5 million particles per cubic 8 foot? You've added the term "year". Tell me how 9 that was developed and why you used that. 10 A. Well, a million particles per cubic 11 foot year, I think I have subsequently read that 12 some of the other people used it; but when I used 13 it, I thought it was original. It was just 14 something that I developed. 15 It was like a lot of other things, 16 other people thought the same thing at the same 17 time but they were not in communication`with each 18 other. 19 Q. Okay. Doctor, I'm going to show 20 you what's marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit 6666, 21 dated October 3rd, 1957. We will mark it as 22 Plaintiff's Exhibit 17 to the deposition and ask 23 you: Prior to meeting with the attorney for 24 Uniroyal, had you ever seen that document before? 25 Let me rephrase that: Prior to A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 109 1 meeting with Mr. Forman in November of "92, had 2 you ever seen that document before? 3 A. No, sir. I can't even read most of 4 this one. What's this say? 1957 asbestos medical 5 and x-ray, what? 6 Q. Asbeston I think it is. Let me get 7 my copy. 1957 Asbeston medical and x-ray survey 8 summary of findings. 9 A. Okay. Well, I'm looking -at it. I 10 have not -- this is the first time I've ever 11 looked at it. 12 Q. Why don't you take a look at it. 13 MR. BUICE: Is yours readable, 14 or is it not? 15 MR. MCCONNELL: That's 16 probably the best one there is, Kevin, 17 that we've got. - 18 (Document was marked for 19 identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 17.) 20 A. I do not remember seeing this 21 document. * 22 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Okay. 23 A. I did not compile that information. 24 Q. And was this information .given to 25 you by anyone at Uniroyal before you -- A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 110 1 A. This is the first time I. remember 2 seeing it. 3 Q. Okay. Let me just go through this 4 with you, Doctor. How about -- if you don't mind, 5 I hate to hover over people because it's not very 6 polite; but it may be the easiest way to do it. 7 This report in 1957 says that 118 8 active employees and eight had been transferred. 9 Is that about the number of employees that you 10 recall in that time period at the Asbeston 11 company? 12 A. I think 134. 13 Q. Okay. 63 of them had for five or 14 more years been exposed to greater than 5 million- 15 particles per cubic foot. 17 had been exposed for 16 five or more years to dust less than 5 million 17 particles, and 46 had been exposed to less than 5 18 years -- excuse me. For less than five years of 19 less than 5 million particles, okay. 20 Part B: Of the 63 employees above 21 in No. 1 above who have been exposed for more than 22 five years to greater than 5 million particles, 43 23 had normal chest x-rays, 6 had questionable, 9 24 suspicious, 4 moderate, and 1 advanced; right? 25 A. That's what it says. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES Ill 1 Q. Okay. Of the 17 people who were 2 exposed for more than five years to dust of less 3 than 5 million particles -- so they were exposed 4 to less than the maximum allowable concentration 5 -- of those 17, 6 had suspicious symptoms of 6 early asbestosis and 2 had questionable lung 7 conditions. 8 BUICE: And your question is 9 is that what the document says? ` 10 MR. MCCONNELL: Yes. 11 A. That's what I read here. ^ 12 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) And this information was never provided to you by anyone 14 from Uniroyal? 15 A. N o . 16 Q. Excuse me? 17 A. No, not to me. I don't even know 18 the origin of that information even now. 19 Q. Down in the lower corner there's 20 two initials, L. R. Did you know anyone by the 21 initials . R. at Uniroyal? 22 A. Where is that? 23 MR. BUICE: You are speaking 24 of the top writing in the lower le-ft? 25 MR. MCCONNELL: Yeah. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 112 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 * . .1 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. BUICE: And we will assume that's L. R. You really can't tell from this copy anyway. MR. MCCONNELL: Yes, it's L. R. A. At this point in time I can't say who that might have been. Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Did you know the name of Mr. Alexander's secretary? A. I might have, but it's long gone. Q. It doesn't come to you now? A. No. Q. And you don't know whether this information was ever shared with anybody outside of Uniroyal? A. I never knew about that information until this afternoon. Q. When I showed it to you? A. When you showed it to me. Q. Okay. Doctor, to your knowledge in the late '50s who had the power or authority to change the maximum allowable concentration? MR. FORMAN: Object to the for m . " _ Q. (By Mr. McConnell) What group or A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, J R & ASSOCIATES 113 1 organization or body or - 2 MR. FORMAN: You are asking 3 him if he knew at that time? 4 MR. MCCONNELL: Correct. 5 A. I don't think I knew at that time. 6 Prior to -- somewhere along the line I acquired 7 the impression that the maximum allowable 8 concentration arose from the American Congress of 9 Governmental Industrial Hygientist. After 1972 it 10 was OSHA. 11 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Did anyone at 12 Uniroyal ever ask you to present your paper to 13 anyone at the American Congress of Governmental 14 and Industrial Hygienist? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Did anyone at Uniroyal ever ask you 17 to present your paper to anyone involved with 18 OSHA? 19 A. No. I had talked at length with - 20 again I say with Dr. Lewis Cralley. He knew and 21 understood what I had done. Whether he saw that 22 paper or not, I don't know. 23 Q. You never have seen a document 24 where Uniroyal gave the United States Public 25 Health Service your report, have you? A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 114 1 A. I have not. 2 Q. Okay. Doctor, have you ever been 3 provided any information at any time to the 4 present about the Uniroyal workers in the Passaic, 5 New Jersey plant? 6 A. N o . 7 Q. Did you know that Uniroyal - 8 A. I did not even know they had a 9 plant there. May I ask you, did they?. . 10 Q. Yeah. They seem to have forgotten 11 about it, too. 12 A. Did they work with asbestos fibers 13 there? 14 Q. They made fluid, sealing gaskets 15 type materials in Passaic, New Jersey. 16 A. I know nothing of the Passaic 17 plant. 18 Q. Nobody at Uniroyal has ever told 19 you about the Passaic, New Jersey plant? 20 A. I never heard the name except from 21 having lived for three months in New Jersey. 22 Q. You missed the hot spot in 23 Passaic. 24 You performed annual exams on all 25 Asbeston employees? A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 115 1 A. We attempted to. 4?. 2 Q. Were you ever asked by Uniroyal to 3 conduct exams on former Asbeston employees? 4 A. I don't think that I was. I cannot 5 give you the names, but I did do exams on some 6 former employees. 7 Q. Was that part of your private 8 practice? 9 A. I think that was probablypart of 10 my private practice. We're talking about 11 information that happened 35 years ago, 30, 35 12 years ago; some that I remember quite clearly, and 13 some of it is lost in the fog of the past. 14 Q. Sure. Were you ever asked by 15 Uniroyal, Doctor, to do a mortality study on 16 Asbeston employees? 17 A. As such, no. . 18 Q. Did Uniroyal ever provide to you 19 death certificates to review of its former 20 Asbeston employees? 21 \A. They did not. r .s 22 Q. What did the annual exam that you 23 conducted for Uniroyal consist of in the early - 24 the late part of the '50s, early part oj the '60s? 25 A. For the first three or four years, A. WILLIAM ROBERT'S , JR., & ASSOCIATES 116 1 it consisted of complete internist type.exams; 2 which was an examination of history taking 3 in-depth, a complete physical examination, 4 excluding rectal exams on men and breast and 5 pelvic exams on ladies; lest if they were told 6 they were doing fine, they have a false sense of 7 security, they were all advised to see their 8 personal physicians for those omitted parts of the 9 exam. ' 10 The x-rays were reviewed. The dust 11 data was applied; complete blood counts, CBC, 12 so-called, were obtained. That's the red count 13 hemoglobin, hematocrit, white blood differential 14 sedimentation rates. The urinalysis was done. 15 Skin tests for histoplasmosis and tuberculosis was 16 done using histoplasmin and PPD. And vital 17 capacities using a rather primitive type 18 instrument called a Preston-Scott apparatus were 19 obtained. 20 It was on the basis of that kind of 21 information that the window shades were compiled 22 and this report derived. In 1960 or thereabouts, 23 I began doing static lung studies which was an 24 effort to measure the total accessible -lung 25 parameters of inspiratory capacity, expiratory A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 117 1 reserve, total lung capacity, total volume, all of 2 the things that could be easily measured. 3 As time went by I obtained a helium 4 measuring machine, wherein I did derive residual 5 volumes. The residual volume of the lung is that 6 part which we can't measure at the bedside which 7 enabled me to add -- added to the previously 8 described measurements to get the total on the 9 volume. I obtained and purchased myself., as a 10 matter of fact, a nitrogen analyzer which enabled 11 me to make judgments regarding the distribution of 12 gas within the lung. We performed what were 13 called nitrogen washoffs. 14 In the early '60s, I began using 15 what was called a two level of oxygen method of 16 studying oxygen, of studying diffusion of gas 17 throughout the lung. That was -- it was done 18 using equipment which was prehistoric basically. 19 I recall calling especially glass 20 makers from New Jersey to California to make this 21 stuff for..me so that we could measure using a 22 particular'gas method to develop by the man I knew 23 as a professor at Johns Hopkins when he was in the 24 Navy of measuring carbon dioxide and oxygen. 25 We ultimately obtained an electrode A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 118 1 method of measuring the tensions of carbon dioxide 2 and oxygen; and given the data on the pH which was 3 terribly important in blood gases and an analysis 4 of blood gases and an analysis of the gases 5 inspired and expired air. 6 I went to Augusta# Georgia and 7 spoke to Dr. Lewis Ellison who was an associate or 8 assistant professor in medicine of physiology who 9 did the blood gas studies for her husband who's a 10 cardiac surgeon and correlated what I was doing 11 with what she was doing so that we were sure we 12 were doing the right thing; and we were. 13 We then started doing this two 14 level of oxygen method of diffusion which was a 15 very beautiful thing, but it was very time 16 consuming and very difficult. When machines 17 became available, carbon monoxide analyz-ing, 18 carbon dioxide analyzing machines became 19 available, we went to what is called a steady 20 state method of studying diffusion which was still 21 time consuming but was done because it was my 22 thinking at the time, going back to the original 23 premise of the whole thing, the earlier we get the 24 worker-patient, the sooner we can diagnose and 25 sooner he will be out of the level of danger, if A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 119 1 there is such a thing. 2 We went to the carbon monoxide 3 diffusion because I thought at the time that 4 probably one of the earliest p re-radiographic, 5 pre-symptomatic changes of people with asbestosis 6 disease was a diffusing effect. I am not 7 absolutely certain what the answer is even now. 8 By 1970 I had been in practice 16 9 years. I was devoting a great deal of time to 10 Uniroyal on my spare time, but I also had a 11 practice that was eating me up. I had no 12 associate at the time. I didn't have any time, & - 13 and I had to start not doing some things I would 14 like to have done with this; as far as 15 documentation, as far as analytical 16 interpretation, as far as going to meetings and 17 talking, as far as printing, writing stuff up for 18 the journals, and what not. I think I say that 19 particularly because a thrust of a lot of the 20 questions have been, why didn't you tell somebody 21 about it. ** 22 Q. I've never asked why didn't you 23 tell, Doctor. I actually compliment you on your 24 full report on your '57-'58 report. If^I've given 25 you that impression, I apologize. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 120 1 My question to you is: Why didn't 2 Uniroyal? 3 A. I don't know why Uniroyal did. I 4 have some thoughts on it, but they're only 5 speculation so there's no point in getting into 6 it; but I can say Uniroyal did do this: They 7 encouraged me to share my knowledge or punitive 8 knowledge with anybody who had a reasonable right 9 to have this information. 10 The way Uniroyal evidently looked 11 at it was is they're fellow competitors to members 12 of the asbestos textile industry. I shared this 13 information. I didn't read the paper. I wasn't 14 invited to talk, as a matter of fact, at the New 15 York Conference on Biological Effects of Asbestos; 16 but I was asked -- I was allowed to talk I guess I 17 said for three minutes and talked for 13 or 18 longer; and my comments are excerpted in this. 19 They're not all there. I know they're not. I 20 don't know what else - 21 Q . We will get into that in a minute. 22 A. But what I'm trying to say is they 23 didn't make me keep what I learned to myself. 24 Q. They had you share it you said 25 the American Textile Industry, are you referring A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 12 1 1 to the American Textile Institute, the ATI? 2 A. The members who sent physicians to 3 the ATI, yes. 4 Q. And have you been shown any 5 internal documents by anyone at Uniroyal from the 6 ATI about -- 7 A. I wasn't in the - 8 MR. BUICE: Doctor, be sure 9 you let him finish the question. 10 A. I'm sorry. Did you finish your 11 question? 12 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) I did. 13 A. I was not in the loop of receiving 14 reports. 15 Q. Okay. And you have no knowledge 16 other than what you've discerned from yourself 17 about the purpose of the ATI, its stated purpose 18 within its minutes or its goal of the ATI itself? 19 A. I'm not sure I understand what you 20 are getting at. 21 Q. You've never been provided by 22 anyone from Uniroyal information about what the 23 purpose and goals of the ATI, the American Textile 24 Institute, are? ~ . 25 A. I have somewhere here, I think A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 122 1 here, letters of -- 2 THE WITNESS: Where is that 3 thing, do you know, on ATI? 4 MR. FORMAN: There may be some 5 material over there in that stack 6 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Is that 7 the one? 8 A. Yeah , uh-huh, that's it 9 Q. That 's in 1973? - 0 A. Yeah . And I have read it . I 11 detail it to you, but I understand it's basically 12 what it was in 1945 or '6 with some amendments 13 that were procedural. 14 Q. Were you of the impression -- under. 15 the impression that you gave annual exams to every 16 Asbeston employee employed at the time? 17 A. I missed some workers some years. 18 I examined everybody whom the plant got up for me 19 to examine. 20 Q. You don't independently know 21 whether the plant got everybody up to see you in a 22 given year or not? Did you have any internal 23 check against personnel rosters? 24 A. I don't think everybody -- I think 25 I missed certain people certain years for various A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 12 3 1 reasons; sometimes they were sick, sometimes they 2 were out on leave, sometimes they left town and 3 then came back subsequently at a later date. 4 I think the plant made a g 5 effort to try to get everybody down there. 6 Q. But you had no internal check on 7 that and it wasn't your responsibility to? 8 A. It wasn't my responsibility. 9 Q. You examined who Uniroyal sent to 10 you? 11 A. That's right. 12 Q. Okay. Doctor, when I asked you 13 about the mortality, had you ever been requested 14 by Uniroyal to do a mortality study, you said not _ 15 as such I think. It wasn't quite a definitive 16 n o . 17 A. If I did say that, I gave you a 18 wrong impression. I was never asked to do a 19 mortality study, period. 20 Q. Okay. You didn't mean to imply 21 anything else by that? 22 A.' No. 23 Q. Okay. When did you personally, 24 Dr. Wells, become aware of the relationship 25 between asbestos and cancer? A. WILLIAM ROBEF.TS , JR., & ASSOCIATES 12 4 1 A. It was when Dr. John Knox came to 2 visit me in the plant that I was made part of that 3 visit, and I think that was sometime in the early 4 '60s or late '50s. 5 Q. There's a letter in 1959 from Dr. 6 Knox, if that's what you are referring to. 7 A. Yeah. That's what I'm looking 8 for. Here it is. At any rate -- here it is, 9 January 1959 . ' 10 At or around 1959 or 1960, I saw 11 Dr. Knox personally. He stayed in my home, as a 12 matter of fact. I became aware at that time from 13 Dr. Knox of two studies that had been done in 14 England, one examining the asbestos textile 15 workers who had worked for varying periods of time 16 up to 20 years and longer before 1933. And in 17 that population of people, there was a "fairly high 18 incidence of asbestosis and pneumoconiosis, we 19 call asbestosis; and a significant incidence of 20 lung cancer. The percent I can't recall or I 21 don't recafll. 22 Because of the work of Meriwether 23 and Price in 1929, the factory inspectors, or 24 whatever the British call themselves, instituted a 25 series of reforms that were put into place over A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 125 1 the next three or four years, so that by 1933 the 2 dust control had been significantly improved in 3 the textile industry in England. 4 In 19 -- I think Doll had written 5 the first paper in 1933 regarding the asbestosis 6 and lung cancer incidences prior to then. Either 7 Knox and Doll or just Knox by himself in 1953 8 wrote a 20 year follow-up. Dr. Knox's comments in 9 that paper and/or to me -- and/or to me' were that 10 the incidence of cancer 20 years earlier were less 11 than they were in the population as a whole in 12 Britain and Wales. So the question really was 13 moot at that time in my mind of whether or not 14 there was a significant relationship between 15 cancer and asbestosis. 16 When Dr. Sullecoff came along in 19 17 -- several other papers were published 1 became 18 aware in 1964 in various countries relating to the 19 incidences of cancer and pneumoconiosis of 20 asbestos. Dr. Sullecoff introduced in America the 21 great concept or the new concept of associated 22 cancer. 23 Q. The new concept to you at the time? 24 A. To me at the time. - 25 Q. You don't have any knowledge, A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 12 6 1 independent knowledge about what folks at Uniroyal 2 knew prior to that time about the association, do 3 you? 4 A . I d on't -- 5 Q. Other than yourself? 6 A. I don't have any independent 7 knowledge. They knew at least by 1959 or '60 what 8 Dr. Knox told me from his experience; but whether 9 they knew anything before then, I don't know. 10 Q. When is the first time that you 11 personally began to tell Uniroyal employees about 12 the association between asbestos and lung cancer? 13 MR. BUICE: May I ask for 14 clarification. You said Uniroyal 15 employees. Are you talking about - 16 MR. MCCONNELL: Asbeston 17 employees. I'm sorry. " 18 MR. BUICE: None -management 19 people? 20 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Correct. I 21 mean the people that you were yearly examining. 22 A. This would have to be a guess. 23 Q. How about your best effort of an 24 estimation? - 25 A. By the first time having gone to A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 12 7 1 New York to hear the -- to audit the asbestos 2 conference in late 1964 and having audited that 3 conference which was in considerable degree 4 devoted to the relationship of cancer and asbestos 5 dust exposure and mesothelioma. It was probably 6 around that time, which would be 1965, early 1965, 7 that I made any mention to workers. 8 Q. Around what, 1965? 9 A. Yeah. I think that either in the 10 '57-'58 report or in some subsequent report to 11 Uniroyal, I made comment on the fact that we had 12 -- that I had in my examination of workers down 13 there encountered either no cases of lung cancer 14 or subsequently I think one case of lung -- one - 15 patient with lung cancer. 16 My feeling throughout my entire 17 work with that thing was that I was n o t "impressed 18 with the incidences of lung cancer in asbestos 19 patients. ` 20 Q. You, in fact, did state in your 21 report, Pl`aintiff's Exhibit 6669, the '57-'58 22 report, that so far there's been no suspected or 23 proven cases of pulmonary tuberculosis or 24 bronchogenic carcinoma either in the workers with 25 asbestosis or in those with no evidence of the A. W I L L I A M R O B E R T S , J R . , Sc A S S O C I A T E S 12 8 1 disease. . 2 A. That would make one think that I 3 knew about lung cancer earlier, but I don't 4 specifically recall when I knew. But I know I 5 knew when -- I know I can date it at least from 6 Dr. Knox's visit with me because he related his 1 experience. 8 Q. And that could, in fact, be about 9 the time that you wrote the report? 10 A. I think his was a little later. 11 Q. Did Uniroyal receive your report 12 prior to July of 1959, do you know? 13 A. I'm sure they did. I'm not sure, 14 but I believe they did. 15 Q. You have I know in the past talked 16 about and we showed you earlier in your deposition 17 the letter that you said went to all employees in 18 July of 1959. 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 Q. July 25th, 1959. Would you agree 21 with me that there's no mention at all of cancer 22 or bronchiogenic carcinoma in the letter that went 23 to all employees in 1959? 24 A. Without specifically reading all 25 three pages again, I couldn't agree with you; but A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 129 1 if you say it's so, I will stipulate it. 2 Q. Okay. You have no reason to 3 disagree with that, how's that? 4 A. Yeah. 5 (A discussion ensued off the 6 record.) 7 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Doctor, does 8 asbestosis progress after removal from asbestos 9 exposure? 10 MR. FORMAN: Again, to the 11 extent you are asking for a current 12 clinical opinion on that, he's not being 13 offered for that purpose. 14 MR. BUICE: I join in that on 15 form. 16 A. During the period in which I was 17 actively involved it did in some worker-patients, 18 and it did not seem to in others. 19 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Showing you 20 again the letter that -- hold on one second, 21 Doctor. - 22 I'm going to show you Plaintiff's 23 Exhibit 3846. It's a letter from Dr. Pendergrass 24 dated March 26th, 1957 and ask you: Ig. that 25 addressed to Mr. Sands? A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 13 0 1 A. It's addressed to Mr. Sands. 2 Q. It's one of the management people 3 at Uniroyal? 4 A. Uh-huh. 5 Q. Were you provided a copy of that 6 letter from Dr. Pendergrass, do you recall? 7 A. Well, I wish I had known what he 8 thought of me in 1957. I was provided with a copy 9 of this within the month. ' 10 Q. In 1993? 11 A. I was very pleased to see what 12 Dr. Pendergrass said. 13 Q. Well, besides saying nice things 14 about you, Dr. Wells, and I assume most people - 15 that know you do, besides saying nice things about 16 you, Dr. Pendergrass in there says, if you agree 17 with me on Page 2: We still do not have any good 18 data to justify the statement following: 19 Asbestosis may not progress if the patient is 20 taken out of a harmful atmosphere and placed in a 21 clean atmosphere. 22 A. Yes. And I think had I at the 23 time, I could go back to several references and 24 cite words or the thoughts of the authorities of 25 the day that once you're removed -- the thoughts A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 13 1 1 being that once you removed the workers .from 2 asbestos exposure, there was no further 3 development. 4 Q. But now the national expert that 5 you referred to that Uniroyal hired, Dr. 6 Pendergrass, to read the asbestos x-ray did tell 7 management at U.S. Rubber in March 25th, 1957 that 8 there was no good evidence to deny progression 9 after exposure had ceased. ' 10 A. I think that's what it said. 11 Q. And then in 1959 - 12 MR. FORMAN: Did you have 13 something else you wanted to add? 14 A. Yeah. I would simply say that 15 still I think Dr. Lanza's report said, noting 16 those two patients who had -- two worker -patients 17 who had asbestosis that if any further a'sbestosis 18 were to -- any more asbestosis were to appear in 19 other workers, that it would probably come from 20 the same area of era of exposure as those two 21 people canie from. And that once I think the 22 comment was made in his report that the dust level * 23 having been gotten down to a fairly safe level, 24 they could anticipate very little subsequent 25 trouble. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS JR. , Sc ASSOCIATES 132 1 Q. After reviewing Dr. Lanza's 1954, 2 can you tell me whether Dr. Lanza makes any 3 reference to the 1946 internal Uniroyal memo 4 showing 24 first stage asbestosis? 5 A. I don't think he did. 6 Q, In fact, what Dr. Lanza reports is 7 -- what Dr. Lanza reports is different than the 8 information that's contained on this 1946 - 9 A. There's a letter copy that I have, 10 not addressed to me from, Dr. Pendergrass. Is 11 that the Pendergrass letter you were just showing 12 me? 13 Q. Yeah, for 1957. 14 A. No. This is -- I don't think this 15 is it. I think this letter -- I think I'm telling 16 you accurately. Dr. Pendergrass came on board 17 down there about 1948. I think that he. came on 18 board -- among other many reasons, the reason that 19 I feel that he came on board is that the company 20 was dissatisfied with the radiographic 21 interpretations to that point. They were 22 dissatisfied* with communications with the Georgia 23 Public Health' Service. 24 Dr. Pendergrass wrote to somebody 25 in Hogansville, presumably Mr. Link, that the A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 133 1 films that they were using were inadequate and 2 that the machine they were using was inadequate, 3 did not have sufficient power; and that he 4 inferred that they ought to improve on that 5 situation. 6 That's the closest they come to any 7 kind -- that's the closest that anybody comes to 8 any kind of even peripheral reference to this kind 9 of stuff. I don't know where it came from. 10 Q. But you do know you were never 11 shown it? 12 A. I was never shown it. 13 Q. And you were given information that 14 is not in conformity with the information 15 contained in that document? 16 A. That is correct. I'd like to say 17 something right here-if I may. I don't-know if 18 it's germane or not, but I think I should say it. 19 Q. I think probably you should wait 20 for a question. 21 >A. Well, it's -- 22 '" MR. BUICE: Is it responsive 23 to something you've been asked? 24 THE WITNESS: It's in response 25 to the inference I think that Uni royal A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 134 1 management was hiding things, from my 2 impression. 3 All the contacts I had with 4 the management, the high management, at 5 Uniroyal -- this is Mr. Link; Mr. Fort; 6 Mr. Alexander; Mr. Austin, who is in 7 charge of the Asbeston factory -- gave 8 me the feeling that I was dealing with 9 high-class people. They were not .only 10 -- well, I've had just a brief exposure 11 to you this morning and afternoon; but I 12 have the same kind of feeling of dealing 13 with somebody who's a thoroughbred. 14 I thought that of these men. 15 They never were devious, to my 16 knowledge, with me in any respect. They 17 supplied me with everything I ever, 18 asked. They were willing to deal openly 19 and aboveboard with the workers. Which 20 my initial stipulation was, we do deal 21 with..the workers that way; and they were 22 in support of that the whole way. 23 " That may not be totally 24 germane, but I think that it should be 25 said because I do get the feeling that A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 135 1 the plaintiffs are trying to bring ,,out 2 the point that they were hiding stuff 3 from me and from everybody else. If 4 they were, I didn't know it. 5 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) So they were 6 successful if they were? 7 A. Well, they were successful; and I 8 have no explanation of this information you've 9 shown me. But I do have certain exceptions to 10 what was shown that I can document or at least 11 demonstrate on my own book. 12 Q. So you've made reference to a 13 couple of those. But even you'd agree with me 14 that you noted more than two of those people on 15 that list had asbestosis which is different from 16 the information you were given in 1956? 17 A. I didn't say when they had 18 asbestosis. I'd have to go back to my records to 19 find out when they were diagnosed that; but in 20 this original paper, I think -- yeah, on Page 10 21 there is a list of six patients with Ill-plus 22 asbestosis, and they're so and so and so and so. 23 Column 2 is the date -- if I'm 24 right, is the date at which x-ray changes were 25 first discerned by me in review of their x-rays. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 136 1 I attempted -- I had an x-ray view box of 12 2 screens. My whole idea -- and I think probably 3 Dr. Pendergrass gave me that idea -- was get them 4 up and review them serially forward and backward. 5 If there were 12 x-rays, let us say, with No. 1 6 being the earliest and No. 12 being the latest, I 7 could see asbestosis if it was there on 12. And 8 going back 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6 and so on, you can 9 see the asbestosis in lessening degrees so that 10 maybe when you got to 1, you couldn't see 11 anything; or maybe in No. 2, you could begin to 12 see looking backward but not forward that that was !3 the earliest changes. 14 Q. You'd agree with me, Doctor, that 15 there are a number of people on that 1946 list 16 that you never heard of? 17 A. Yes. . 18 Q. And you never examined? 19 A. Right. 20 Q. So you have no information about 21 them except that we know in 1946 someone at 22 Uniroyal thought they had asbestosis? 23 A. I was told regarding those people, 24 those absentee workers -- not absentee jput absent 25 workers, that many had left the employ of the A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 13 7 1 plant, many moved. There virtually was .no other 2 work in Hogansville except the Uniroyal work. It 3 was the only major plant there. 4 Q. Who told you that? 5 A. I don't know, but any one of a 6 number of people. 7 Q. They didn't tell you -- nobody told 8 you specifically about these people? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Because you just saw this document 11 a few months ago? 12 A. You just said thepeople who 13 weren't there were people who had left. It never 14 occurred to me to inquire, oh, why did they leave 15 or anything. The answer was if they didn't have 16 work at Hogansville -- after 1945, the 24 hour day 17 business I think kind of slowed down. That's one 18 reason they left. 19 Q. Doctor, did there come a time when 20 you were of the opinion personally that asbestosis 21 was a progressive disease, that is, that it 22 continued to worsen after removal from dust 23 exposure? 2 4 MR. FORMAN: Object to t-he 25 form. He's already answered I think A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 13 8 1 that he saw it in some incidences and 2 some he didn't. 3 A. That's what I think I said 4 earlier. As an example, the man who got me into 5 the whole thing, Robert Todd, to my knowledge is 6 still living. I have seen - 7 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) When's the last 8 time you saw Robert Todd? 9 A. About two years ago, just before I 10 retired. I have seen changes that I thought were 11 early asbestosis revert on subsequent x-rays. 12 I've seen patients that I put in their impression 13 question mark, asbestosis. I've seen comments 14 I've made on subsequent reports saying on the 15 review of these things there is nothing there. 16 Q. What happened with Robert Todd? 17 A. Robert Todd worked out his lifetime 18 and is in retirement. 19 Q. It's been your position from 20 everything I've read that it was Uniroyal's policy 21 that once -a worker was diagnosed with asbestosis 22 by you they were removed from the Asbeston 23 facility? 24 A. They were seen in conference and 25 removed. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 139 1 Q. And, in fact, in 1983 in the Lois 2 Hurtt deposition, you said, quote, it would be 3 reprehensible to transfer a sick employee back 4 into the Asbeston dust exposure. Do you still 5 agree with that? 6 A. I still agree with that, although 7 -- I still agree with it, period. 8 Q. In fact, that transfer back would 9 be -- would have been against company policy? 10 A. No. It would have been against my 11 recommendations. 12 Q. Against your recommendations. 13 Robert Todd was one of the workers who had Grade 14 Ill-plus asbestosis in your '57-'58 report; isn't 15 that right? 16 A. (Witness nods head affirmatively.) 17 Q . And Grade I -- 18 A. And he seems not to have 19 progressed. 20 Q. Grade I is the lowest? 21 A. Yes . 22 Grade II is the -- 23 A. '* By the criteria that I established 24 - I want to say to you that initially the 25 Premise was that I would take on the job to learn A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 14 0 1 all that I could learn about asbestosis as it 2 occurred in the Hogansville Uniroyal plant. 3 As I showed Mr. Forman, all that 4 was known in my standard textbook of medicine 5 Harrison's Textbook of Medicine printed 1950, 6 Cecil's Textbook of Medicine printed 1947 -- these 7 are major textbooks that are revised every so 8 often. In Cecil's, it was nothing at all except 9 two words in connection with psittacosis. 10 Harrison, on a page with two columns on it, it was 11 about 2 inches on one column of asbestosis which 12 basically said asbestosis is a disease of the 13 lungs brought about by exposure to asbestos dust. 14 Q. You could have figured that out 15 yourself. 16 A. Yeah. I could have figured that 17 out. As a matter of fact, I had figured that 18 out. That didn't tell me anything. 19 My knowledge specifically and 20 basically of asbestosis proceeded from there. And 21 as I pointed out to Uniroyal to the management, I 22 conceived ''o-f- my job as learning what could be 23 learned about* it in or^er to remove the 24 patient-worker from asbestos exposure once the 25 disease was diagnosed. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 14 1 1 I did not tell a worker-patient 2 that he had the disease if I had not diagnosed 3 it. I did diagnose it on the basis of all the 4 information I got. It was a judgment call. There 5 were no ironclad, hard and fast rules. There may 6 be now, but they're still set up on the basis of 7 best judgment of the people setting them up. 8 Q. Doctor, in light of all the 9 asbestosis disease you saw come out of the plant, 10 did you ever recommend to Uniroyal management that 11 it get out of the asbestos business? 12 A. No, I didn't. 13 Q. You didn't? 14 A. I didn't because for one simple - 15 reason: These are graphs showing the effects of 16 dust control at Uniroyal in Hogansville, and these 17 are on different stations. These are bar graphs 18 showing the results of effected -- of the efforts 19 at dust control. 20 I thought at the time -- I'm not so 21 sure that'-it's still not true -- that if the dust 22 exposure could be brought sufficiently low, then 23 this minimum threshold value would come into 24 reality and the patients could work a rifetime at 25 work and retire and fish and live their life out. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, J R ., & ASSOCIATES 142 1 Q. What did you believe that level to 2 be? 3 A. I did not know. The level that I 4 was -- was the lowest obtainable level. 5 Q . What did you -- 6 A. Or possible. 7 Q. What did you report to the New York 8 Academy of Science in 1964? 9 A. I went overboard a little bit 10 there, but I think philosophically I was correct. 11 Q. I think a lot of people agree with 12 y o u . 13 A. But I would say also that we could 14 avoid a lot of deaths in automobiles if we take up 15 the horse and buggy. We have a certain risk in 16 life to everything. 17 Q. Let me ask: You don't deny that 18 you told the international gathering in 1964 that 19 as far as a safe level of asbestos dust is 20 concerned, your only conclusion from Hogansville, 21 Georgia iff that there is no safe level. The safe 22 level is nil, n-i-1; and anything above the safe 23 level represents certain risks? 24 A. I think I would put in ^ - 25 Q. Well, let me first ask you, Doctor, A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 14 3 1 do you -- 2 A. I know that's what it says. 3 Q. You don't deny saying that to the 4 international conference? 5 A. This is not a total excerpt -- this 6 is not an excerpt -- this is not a quotation of 7 everything I said. The last sentence, the safe 8 level is nil and everything above that safe level 9 represents -- I would interpret a certain risk. 10 Q. Let me just ask you: You don't 11 deny saying that to the New York Academy of 12 Sciences in 1964, do you? 13 A. I don't deny saying in essence 14 that, but I'm not sure that I didn't say a certain 15 risk. 16 Q. Okay. It doesn't say a, the word 17 "a" is missing? . 18 A. But it doesn't say everything else 19 I said either. 20 Q. And in the sentence before that you 21 said there is no safe level. 22 *AV The safe level is nil. 23 Q. ** And you never printed a 24 clarification or a retraction, sent a letter to 25 the New York Academy of Sciences or anything about A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 144 1 that, have you? 2 A. I did not. 3 Q. In fact, to your knowledge, do you 4 know whether, in fact, your comments have been 5 relied on and quoted by other physicians 6 throughout the world? 7 A. Somebody -- I don't know whether 8 they've been -- I think they've only been relied 9 on by those whose ax was convenient to grind with 10 that particular stone. 11 Q. You've never seen it published or 12 commented upon? 13 A. Yes. I have seen -- I saw a 14 published comment by somebody in response to it in 15 a presentation to Congress where they quoted me, 16 and I think a Dr. Addingly from England, in fact, 17 that was there. * - 18 Q. How about a citation from Dr. 19 Parris or Dr. Murphy in quoting you? 20 A. I said something I think at New 21 York abou*t, 50 to 60 million particles per cubic 22 foot year Viposure being the point at which I 23 began to see asbestos workers, asbestos patients. 24 Dr. Wolfsie said at somg. meeting he 25 made that comment that that had been a finding. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 14 5 1 The meeting was attended by Dr. Murphy .and Dr. 2 Farris, is it? 3 Q. Uh-huh. 4 A. Who had a somewhat similar 5 experience with shipyard workers I think in New 6 England. I had a brief note from Dr. Farris 7 somewhere along that line saying that -- quoting 8 that and saying that Dr. Wolfsie had said that and 9 that they were interested because their results 10 were essentially the same. 11 Q. Let me go back to Mr. Todd before 12 we deviated. I'm going to show you what's been 13 marked for the trial as Plaintiff's Exhibit 7308 14 and ask if you recognize the handwriting on that - 15 two page document? 16 A. May I go back to one thing else 17 regarding the minimum you are talking about? 18 Q. Sure. 19 A. The recommendations that I made on 20 Page 17: Pulmonary asbestosis is an industrial 21 health and preventative medicine problem of the 22 first magnitude. This study suggests that the 23 primary and most important factor in acquiring of 24 the disease is the individual workers "total 25 accumulative exposure -- total accumulative A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 146 1 exposure to asbestos dust. , 2 Previous safe levels of 5 million 3 particles per cubic foot year must be revised 4 radically downward. The only concession is short 5 of an ideal zero exposure being the minute or 6 maximum relationship between the diminishing 7 returns versus increased exposure to asbestos. 8 And when I came in 1964 and made that statement in 9 New York, I had that particular paragraph in mind. 10 Q. And you told Uniroyal in 1958-'59 11 that the current standard of 5 million particles 12 per year -- the 5 million particles per cubic 13 foot had to be revised radically downward? 14 A. And I submit that they were doing 15 so at the time and subsequently have shown by 16 these graphs of exposure. 17 Q. You also said that it would be of k 18 great interest in value if more extensive studies 19 could be undertaken regarding the nature and 20 degree incapacity in most patients that 21 demonstrated a suspected asbestosis. Was that V ' * 22 ever done? 23 A. May I see that, please? 24 Q. Yes. It's the same page-you are 25 reading from, the second to the last paragraph. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 14 7 1 A. To a degree it was done with the 2 diffuse work. 3 Q. That's the work that you did in 4 your yearly exams? 5 A. No. I did that supplementary to 6 them in my office where we did -- studied stated 7 diffusion of carbon monoxide in the lungs. 8 Q. Is that what you said the machine 9 you bought yourself - 10 A. No. That was helium or nitrogen 11 analyzer. 12 Q. Was that study ever written up? 13 A. N o . 14 Q. Do you recognize the handwriting on 15 that document? 16 A. No. 17 MR. BUICE: That is, for the 18 record, 7308. 19 A. This is not my handwriting. I 20 don't know whose it is. 21 "Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Now, some point 22 in time you diagnosed Mr. Todd with asbestosis; is 23 that right? 24 A. 1956. 25 Q. Okay. In 1956 you recommended to A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 14 8 1 management that he be removed from the Asbeston 2 facility to a non-asbestos exposure job? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And they did that? 5 A. I'm sure they did that. 6 Q. And that was the right thing to do? 7 A. I think it was. 8 Q. Do you know where Mr. Todd was 9 transferred to? 10 A. It says here Reid Mill. 11 Q. What was Reid Mill, do you know? 12 A. It was a kind of textilemill. 13 MR. BUICE: You are saying 14 what the document says? Do you know was 15 the question. Do you personally know? 16 A. Oh, okay. He was transferred - 17 all I know personally is that he was transferred 18 within the mill out of asbestos. 19 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) And that would 20 jive that it was sometime in the late 1950s that 21 that occurred? > '' 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. The technical legal term "jive". 24 A. Okay. ~ 25 MR. BUICE: I'm more A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 149 1 comfortable with that than some of the 2 initials that you used that I'm hoping 3 you are asking the right question. 4 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Do you know 5 what happened to Mr. Todd subsequent to his 6 transfer out of the Asbeston department? 7 A. Work wise or physical wise? 8 Q. Yes, sir, work wise. 9 A. He continued to work at.Uniroyal 10 until he retired at 65 I believe. 11 Q. He retired at age 65? 12 A. Age 65. 13 Q. Do you know what the initials C&S 14 15 A. C&S? 16 Q. C ampersand S, C&S. 17 A. Not without some connecting 18 information. 19 Q. Do you know what C&S would stand 20 for in the context of a textile operation? 21 -A. No, I don't. I can't think of what 22 it would stand for. 23 Q. * How about the initials ASB? 24 A. Same response. 25 Q. In the context of an asbestos A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 150 1 textile operation, do you know what ASB .would 2 stand for? 3 A. Asbestos, that's what it might be 4 related to. 5 Q. Do you know the term card and 6 spinning? 7 A. Yes, I do. 8 Q . Was there a card and spinning 9 division or operation within the Asbeston 10 department? 11 A. Yes, there was. 12 Q. And the carding andspinning, 13 aren't they, in fact, some of the highest dust 14 count levels that you saw prior to your -- or 15 within your report in the carding and spinning 16 department? 17 A. I'm pretty sure the carding was. 18 They varied. They were among -- they all trended 19 down. There were discrepancies between the levels 20 of various divisions, but all of them trended 21 down. *. 22 Q. In the early 1960s, the carding and 23 spinning was some of the highest? 24 A. Early 1960s, the highest-of any of 25 them were 3 million particles per cubic foot year A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 15 1 1 in the '60s; and mostly it was less than 2. 2 Q. So the people in the carding and 3 spinning department were still being exposed to 4 asbestos ? 5 A. People working anywhere in the mill 6 would be exposed to asbestos. 7 Q. In the Asbeston mill? 8 A. In the Asbeston mill. 9 Q. Doctor, let me again hand you 7308; 10 and would you read the entry on this document for 11 April 18th, 1963. 12 A. Where do you want me to - 13 Q. The entry for April 18th, I believe 14 it is, 1963 for Robert Todd. 15 A. Transferred to ASB C & S . 16 Q. So that would be seven years after 17 you diagnosed him with asbestosis disease and 18 recommended that he be removed from asbestos 19 exposure? 20 A. There was a machine outside of the 21 plant flod*r -- of the plant production floor. 22 Q. Doctor, I apologize. Can you first 23 -- the question is just pretty simple. 24 A. Yes or no? * 25 Q. Yeah. Mr. Todd was transferred to A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 152 1 the Asbeston carding and spinning department seven 2 and a half years or seven plus years after you 3 diagnosed him with Grade Ill-plus asbestosis? 4 BUICE: And he can assume the 5 accuracy of the statement on the 6 record? 7 MR. MCCONNELL: It's a 8 document produced by Uniroyal. 9 MR. BUICE: What I'm saying is 10 he said he didn't have personal 11 knowledge of that, and - 12 A. Yes. I don't have personal 13 knowledge. My personal impression, my personal 14 thought was that he never went back in the . 15 asbestos floor. I don't know whose handwriting 16 this is. I know that he begged me to recommend to 17 Mr. Link and others to let him go back-- in. I know 18 it came up with Mr. Link. I think that somewhere 19 I said it would go against everything we were 20 trying to do to let him back in. 21 -* Irregardless of what it says, I'd 22 have to ask Mr. Todd if he ever went back in to 23 verify that. ~ 24 Q. Let me show you -- I'm you showing 25 7308 again, the entry on October 17th, 1966, A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 15 3 1 transferred to lead man finishing. 2 A. Finishing. 3 Q. Exposure to asbestos dust ceased in 4 what date, October 1966? 5 A. That's what it says. 6 Q. That's ten years after you 7 diagnosed him with asbestosis. Is that a correct 8 reading of 7308? 9 A. That's what that says. I have no 10 disagreement with reading that. 11 Q . If that, in fact, were the case 12 with Mr. Todd, would that fit your definition of 13 reprehensible behavior? 14 A. If, in fact, it were true, it - 15 would. I do not know it's true. 16 Q. But you have no reason to challenge 17 the document that I showed you? -- 18 MR. BUICE: I believe you were 19 commenting on something that bothered 20 you about it. 21 "A. I have reason to challenge that 22 against what I said -- what I thought I knew of 23 Mr. Todd's exposure of my personal contacts with 24 Mr. Todd were he begged me to go back tuo Asbeston 25 because he said he was feeling fine, and where I A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 154 1 steadfastly said I can't make that recommendation, 2 Robert. I don't know that he went back. 3 It certainly looks like he did from 4 that reference you gave me, but I would question 5 it. I would question the legitimacy of the 6 record. 7 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Because you 8 would have -- because that would have been 9 reprehensible behavior? , . 10 A. Well, no. It would have gone 11 against the policy. 12 Q. Doctor, did you -- you saw a 13 document that we showed you dated 1946 where 14 Uniroyal listed various people who were diagnosed 15 in the 1940s with asbestosis; is that right? 16 A. I did. 17 Q. I just showed you that._ And you 18 personally diagnosed and know that there were 19 people diagnosed with asbestosis in the 1950s; is 20 that right? 21 .A. I'm sorry. I didn't follow that. 22 You personally diagnosed some 23 people and kn'ow that other people from the 24 Uniroyal plant were diagnosed with asbestosis in 25 the 1950s; is that right? A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, J R ., & ASSOCIATES 155 1 A. I know that two people were 2 diagnosed in 1953, and 1957 and '8 I diagnosed 3 several others. I also know that of those people 4 who were diagnosed in 1946, I saw x-rays of three 5 of them I think who I would say by my criteria, 6 which were judged by others to be too advanced, I 7 would say they did not have asbestosis. 8 Q. Some of them did? 9 A. Well, the ones that I was able to 10 review. 11 Q. And some you just don't know 12 because you just saw this document? 13 A. I don't know. That's right. 14 Q. Okay. Did you diagnose people from 15 the Uniroyal Asbeston plant in the 1960s with 16 asbestosis ? 17 A. Lois Hurtt is one I can -think of. 18 Q. Any others? I'm not looking for 19 the name; but you did, in fact, diagnose people in 20 the 1960s? 21 ''A. I can't tell you. I think I *Vv . \4 22 probably did , but I can't tell you. 23 Q. How about in the 1970s? 24 A. I have never gotten up my 25 information to answer those questions. I'd have A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR.. & ASSOCIATES 156 / 1 to go back over all the charts and see. I'm 2 sorry, but I just don't have it. 3 Q. But you know at least you can 4 recall Lois Hurtt in the 1960s? 5 A. Very well. 6 Q. And you believe there may be 7 others, you just don't know it right now? 8 A. I think there may be, but I'm not 9 sure. I think we got -- in this original group, 10 we've got the large bulk of the people who were 11 exposed to large -- relatively large amounts of 12 asbestos dust, and they're all in the early '40s. 13 Q. And, in fact, after your report, 14 you saw dust - you believe that Uniroyal got a 15 good handle on its dust control problem? 16 A. I thought they had an excellent 17 handle on it. h 18 Q. And that was sometime at the end of 19 the 1950s? 20 A. Right. 21 "Q. I'm going to show you 7359, 22 Plaintiff's Exhibit for the trial, and ask you as 23 best you can -- let me just first show it to, 24 Rick. 25 A. I said I thought they had an A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 157 1 excellent handle and - 2 Q. Why don't you just wait a second so 3 Rick can -- 4 MR. BUICE: Are you completing 5 your prior response? 6 THE WITNESS: Yes. 7 MR. BUICE: May he be allowed 8 to do that? 9 MR. MCCONNELL: Rick's just 10 preoccupied, that's all. 11 MR. BUICE: I'm sorry. Now go 12 ahead so he can listen to you now. 13 A. But to my knowledge at that time, 14 we were the only company who were correlating 15 literal dust counts to total exposure and what had 16 happened to the patients. 17 By looking at the graphs_ and seeing 18 the downward trend made me feel like they had a 19 good handle. 20 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) That's fine. 21 I'm showing you Plaintiff's Exhibit 7359 which is 22 also Uniroyal Exhibit U-43 for this trial. And it 23 is a citation to Uniroyal dated 1974, okay. 24 I'm going to draw your attention to 25 the last page under comments. Let's see. First A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 15 8 1 of all# I'm going to put you to the test and make 2 sure I read this correct: Company was very candid 3 and cooperative during the inspection. They've 4 been taking air samples for many years and have 5 developed many control measures. That's what 6 you've told us about today, right? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Medical controls were impressive. 9 Somebody -- you know when you get these, documents, 10 they wipe the reporting person's name out -- so 11 blank informed us that their asbestosis cases 12 occurred several years ago, '40s and early '50s 13 when they had massive exposures. There have been 14 no cases of cancer which attributes -- which blank 15 attributes to asbestos. Blank states that they 16 have not had any -- they have not had asbestosis 17 since controls were implemented. 18 A. If I'm blank and they had that 19 impression, then that's probably right. 20 Q. I don't know that you are blank. 21 Are you bl^ank? Did you talk to OSHA in 1974? 22 XV I'm blank on a lot of questions you 23 are asking me*. 24 MR. BUICE: His question, 25 though, seriously was whether or not you A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 159 1 were the person informing OSHA of that. 2 A. No. I had contacts with OSHA. 3 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Well# thank 4 you; but I sort of thought you told me earlier you 5 had no contact with OSHA. 6 My question to you first is: Did I 7 read that correctly? 8 A. As far as I know you did it. 9 Q. And didn't you previously, tell us 10 that in here it states that there have not - 11 Uniroyal has not had any -- has not had asbestosis 12 since controls were implemented? 13 A. Controls -- I'm not quite certain 14 what you mean by that question because the 15 controls of some kind were implemented from the 16 word go. Now, what -- can you rephrase that in 17 some way so that I could understand it?. 18 Q. I wish I could rewrite OSHA's 19 citations, but they haven't given me that power 20 yet. This says that somebody states, somebody 21 told OSHA ..that Uniroyal has not had asbestosis 22 cases -- have not had asbestosis since controls 23 were implemented. - 24 A. What do they mean by that, and 25 when? A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 160 1 Q. I'm asking you that. , 2 A. I don't know. 3 Q. Is that in conformity with your 4 knowledge of your diagnosis of cases of asbestosis 5 at least in Lois Hurtt's case if not others in the 6 1960s and perhaps 1970s? 7 MR. FORMAN: I object to the 8 form since that document doesn't specify 9 when they are talking about controls 10 what controls are they talking about. 11 Are they talking about OSHA controls or 12 what ? 13 MR. BUICE: Join that, 14 please. 15 A. I want to be helpful, but I don't 16 know how to answer that question because I don't 17 understand the question. I don't know the time 18 frame that they are talking in. I don't know what 19 controls they're talking about. 20 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) And you have no 21 independent knowledge -- *r.__ 22 A. And I do not at this point in 23 time. I could get the*information, especially if 24 somebody will give me a clerk. I could- get the 25 information about who had what and when, but I do A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 161 1 not at this point in time have any specific 2 recollection of later asbestosis patients in the 3 1970s. 4 Q. But you do at least of Lois Hurtt 5 in the 1960s? 6 A. I do of Lois Hurtt in 1964. 7 Q. 1964. 8 MR. MCCONNELL: How about we 9 take a five minute break and let me 10 group and talk to my partner. 11 (A break was taken.) 12 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Plaintiff's 13 Exhibit 3845 is a letter from Dr. Pendergrass to a 14 Mr. Sands at Uniroyal dated November 26th, 1955. 15 I #m going to show you that and ask you if you've 16 ever seen that document before. 17 A. I have not seen this before. I 18 have not seen that before, but I'm very interested 19 in it. 20 Q. I will make you a copy before you 21 leave if you like. This is the Dr. Pendergrass 22 that -- 23 A. That's Jim Pendergrass. 24 Q. -- Uniroyal hired as th, so to 25 speak, expert to come down and consult with them A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES on asbestos. Do you agree with Dr. Pendergrass when he wrote to Uniroyal that when he says, when we can demonstrate x-ray evidence of asbestosis, the disease is well-advanced? A,. I think that's probably right. Q.. And let me show you -- that was Plaintiff's Exhibit 3845. Let me show you Plaintiff's Exhibit 3838, a January 20th, 1959 letter from John Knox in England and ask you if you've seen that letter before. A., To Mr. Sands, I'm pretty sure I've got this. Let me look in here. I have that. Q. You do. Doctor, let me ask you: Do you agree with Dr. Knox when he wrote to Uniroyal in 1959 and said at the bottom of the first page, about the middle of the last paragraph : Of course if there is considerable suspicion that fibrosis of the lung may be present, further exposure to dust is highly undesirable? A. Do I agree with thosestatements? Q.' Yes, sir. A. Yes, I do. Q. Doctor, let me ask you -- A. I've got to disagree with my A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 163 1 statement. To the extent that I can be certain 2 that fibrosis is present, I then think that any 3 further exposure is undesirable. 4 Q. You have to be certain first? 5 A. I want to be reasonably certain. 6 Q. Reasonably certain? 7 A. And reasonably certain is based on 8 the parameters of my own investigation of 9 Hogansville at the time I was doing it.. . 10 Q. When did you stop consulting for 11 Uniroyal? When did the relationship end? 12 A. Probably the 19th of January 1991. 13 Q. Probably, that sounds pretty 14 specific to me. 15 A. That's the day I retired. 16 Q. Is that right? Did you do the 17 yearlies up until -- . 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. - - u p until -- did you ever see a 20 case of mesothelioma - 21 .A. Yes. 22 QV -- out of the Hogansville plant? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Did you see cases of lung cancer? 25 A. I do not specifically,recall -- and A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 164 1 I can't recall the name -- more than one patient 2 with lung cancer. 3 Q. From the Hogansville plant? 4 A. (Witness nods head affirmatively.) 5 Q. When did you see the mesothelioma, 6 about, what year? 7 A. I think that was around 19 -- 8 either 1970 or 1980. I'm not sure which. She was 9 my patient, and I saw her; and I helped her right 10 to the end, tried to help her. 11 Q. Did you know a gentleman by the 12 name of Lester Rice? 13 A. Rice? 14 Q. Yes, sir. Lester Rice? 15 A. No, I did not. 16 Q. You don't recall right now whether 17 18 A. I don't recall that name. 19 Q. Okay. Did the woman have pleura 20 mesothelioma? 21 A. She had a pleura mesothelioma. 22 Doctor, let's turn to the much 23 talked about -Hogansville employee, Lois Hurtt. 24 A. Okay. I'll have to go a lot on 25 recollection with her because, as I say, I could A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 165 1 not -- I tried because I anticipated being asked 2 about her, and I tried to find her chart; and I 3 could not. 4 Q. Let me see if I can just -- that's 5 your deposition. You had testified that you 6 diagnosed Mrs. Hurtt with asbestosis in 1964 and 7 there upon recommended that she be removed from 8 asbestos exposure. 9 A. If that's what the record shows, 10 yes, I think that's about right. 11 Q. And you testified in that 12 deposition as well that you suspected that Mrs. 13 Hurtt had asbestosis sometime in the 1950s? 14 A. I think that's right. 15 Q. And if you believed that Mrs. Lois 16 Hurtt, was formerly Ms. Lois Jackson, someone at 17 Uniroyal suspected that she had asbestosis in the 18 1940s? 19 A. That's what that indicates. 20 Q. Okay. Let me hand you portions of 21 Plaintiff'-s Exhibit 15 which we had marked this 22 morning and what we're referring to as the Lois 23 Hurtt file as we produced it and ask you if these 24 16 reports are true and accurate copies of medical 25 reports that you generated at the time concerning A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 166 1 your medical evaluation of Lois Hurtt? 2 A. You got all of what I can't find. 3 Q. I will say for the record we didn't 4 take them from you. 5 A. I'm sure these are copies of my 6 records. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. Okay. Since I can't find my chart, 9 may I have copies of these? 10 MR. MCCONNELL: You are most 11 welcome to these, yes, sir. We pulled 12 that out of Plaintiff's Exhibit 15. Why 13 don't we make -- for future 14 authentication reasons, why don't we 15 make those Plaintiff's Exhibit -- we 16 will make those Exhibit 18 and just 17 reflect that they have come out of 15, 18 Plaintiff's Exhibit 15. 19 (Document was marked for 20 identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 18.) 21 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) Let me ask you 22 a question^" Why didn't you tell Mrs. Hurtt that 23 you suspected' she had asbestosis before 1964? 24 A. Why did I not? 25 Q . Yes, sir. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., Sc ASSOCIATES 16 7 1 A. Probably the answer I could give 2 you is a generic answer. I didn't tell anybody 3 they had asbestosis until I was reasonably certain 4 that they had asbestosis; and for me to become 5 reasonably certain is to have a sufficient number 6 of data which encompassed what they told me, how 7 they felt, which encompassed objectively what I 8 found which included x-rays that had developed to 9 a point where I could recognize asbestosis as I 10 had learned to recognize it at Uniroyal, and which 11 encompassed certain physiological studies which we 12 were beginning to do. 13 When I had -- when I felt that 14 their weight of that evidence pointed towards 15 asbestosis, I would tell a patient-worker that 16 that patient had, in fact, had asbestosis. I did 17 not tell them before *because telling them before 18 -- I felt in 1964 and before -- to load 19 information of that kind, a diagnosis of that 20 kind, on a patient was unfair to them until I was 21 certain that they had it. Because in small 22 community -- first of all, it was unfair 23 emotionally and psychologically. Perhaps we were 24 more eternalistic as physicians then aa. physicians 25 are today; but that was my feeling at that point A. W I L L I A M R O B E R T S , J R . , Sc A S S O C I A T E S 168 1 in time and still is. 2 Workers worked in a small 3 community. If they were of any duration and were 4 getting some years, they frequently found as I 5 think as I recall Mrs. Hurtt did that having 6 developed certain work motions, certain muscles to 7 do certain work motions and having been 8 transferred to another section of the mill, 9 none -asbestos exposure, they simply did. not 10 measure up to the demands of a new job requiring 11 new muscle action, that meant that they were out 12 of a job essentially unless they could find one 13 elsewhere. In a small community that was a 14 difficult thing to do. 15 So to impale them with the 16 diagnosis of asbestosis was to put a lot of 17 hardships on them including the mental and 18 emotional aspects, the aspects of not being able 19 to find or having difficulty to find another job. 20 The certainty of never being able to get 21 insurance.. All that stuff entered into my 22 reasoning for not doing it. 23 Q. Shouldn't that have been the 24 patient's choice? 25 A. I don't know. You might say one A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 169 1 could take the side that it should have been the 2 patient's choice. 3 I cite you another example more 4 close to home and more contemporaneous: My wife 5 who is 71 years old has been having a great deal 6 of trouble with her right shoulder. I took her to 7 an outstanding sports medicine man, and she was 8 told that he had a total tear of that shoulder of 9 a rotator cuff, that she would have to undergo 10 surgery which would be prolonged which she would 11 have to undergo rehabilitation which would be 12 prolonged. They told me more of this stuff than 13 they told her. 14 If she had access to all the 15 information that I have, she wouldn't sleep at all 16 at nights. She would worry, and I know it. She's 17 not a worrying kind.' She's a very pragmatic 18 person; but she's a human being, and she would 19 worry about this. I'm trying to spare her. She's 20 got to face it. What's the point of drilling her 21 with it. ** 22 It was the same way with the 23 patients. They had things to face. If I knew 24 they had it, I told them; but if I only suspected 25 they had it, I didn't tell them. That was my A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 170 1 philosophy of medicine. It is my philosophy of 2 medicine. It's the way I function. 3 Q. But isn't the difference using your 4 analogy that your wife isn't doing anything by not 5 knowing to further injure herself and the workers 6 in the Asbeston department were continuing harmful 7 exposure and you had information that could have 8 stopped that? 9 A. That's a reasonable point. I think 10 again 30 years ago at the time -- I'm not sure 11 what I'm about to say to you is really entered as 12 a great, great weight in my thinking, but I 13 thought -- I do recall thinking at the time that 14 the amount of exposure that was being -- which the 15 worker was being exposed was very small. I did 16 not develop the thinking that I expressed in 1964 17 until that point in time. 18 I thought at the point at that 19 point in time prior to 1964 that the workers were 20 the -- that the risk had been materially 21 diminished by the engineering in the plant. 22 Again, you^ve got -- I want to say this: Starting 23 from scratch 'except for an academic background, 24 this thing, this program as far as I was concerned . 25 was created de novo. I started the starting A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., Sc ASSOCIATES 171 1 line. I established for us and for me all the 2 parameters that were established. They weren't 3 anybody else's. They were John G. Wells' work, 4 and I operated by them. 5 I got such help as I could get it 6 from Dr. Pendergrass, from Dr. Knox, to a certain 7 degree from Dr. Kenneth Smith at Johns -Mansvi11e . 8 Dr. Pendergrass and Knox specifically were very 9 helpful to me. I began to accumulate a library 10 where I did have access to other thinking. That 11 library is expanded considerably after the 1964 12 conference. But prior to that time, you could say 13 I was working in a vacuum as far as outside 14 information was concerned. . 15 I did what I did based upon my 16 entire training as a physician, as a scientist 17 physician. I applied the best judgment- I could. 18 If it's wrong in hindsight, it's wrong in 19 hindsight; but it certainly was not intentionally 20 wrong. It was based upon the best judgement I 21 could apply. 22 Q. Did you have discussions with 23 anyone at Uniroyal about when you did or did not 24 diagnose somebody with asbestosis? - 25 A. When I did or did not? A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 172 1 Q . Yes, sir. 2 A. You mean the time to say you have 3 asbestosis as opposed to the time to be quiet? 4 Q . Yes, sir. 5 A. I'm not categorically certain that 6 I ever had a specific conversation, which would 7 have been essentially with Mr. Link. Mr. Link was 8 a man that I could talk to. There was no reason 9 why -- the lines of communication with Ta'im were 10 very open, both as a plant boss and as a private 11 patient. I saw him also as a physician to a 12 patient over a long period of time, starting 13 sometime after this began, all this work at 14 Uniroyal began. 15 It is conceivable that I might have 16 said in essence what I said to you just a few 17 minutes ago, but I don't have any documentation; 18 but I think I was fairly open and fairly candid 19 with Mr. Link as far as his work was concerned. 20 Q. Doctor, did you have any 21 conversations with Dr. Kenneth Smith from 22 Johns-Mansville about his theory about when and 23 how and if to inform fhe worker about occupational 24 hazards? -- 25 A. I have one clear memory and several A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 173 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ' 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 hazy memories of Dr. Kenneth Smith. The clear memory is that he showed me x-rays of patients, workers of Johns-Mansville who had asbestosis which he described as early which I described as very late. They were just different. The inference being that they also did not have a program in place for early detection. My feeling about Johns-Mansville was that thank God I'm working for somebody who's looking out for their people. I really felt that about it. I didn't feel Johns-Mansville, from what I knew about them, was really looking into the problem. Not what I knew about them, what was shown to me by Dr. Kenneth Smith. Q. You never had discussions with him about when and if and how to - A. I never had a philosophical discussion. Q. Nothing about talking to the workers? .A. No. Let me re-focus back again on Lois Hurtt. In May of 1961 -- and do you have all your reports in front of you, I don't know where they went to. Why don't you pull out May 1st, '61. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 174 1 In 1961, Doctor, you reported in 2 your medical records that Mrs. Lois Hurtt had 3 suspected asbestosis of Grade I degree. 4 A. Okay. 5 Q. Do you see that on Page 2? 6 A. I see that. You want to ask me 7 some more questions, or do you want me to answer 8 what's already been asked of me ten years ago 9 about this here? . 10 Q. You are going to tell me about the 11 typographical error? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Why don't you tell me about it. 14 A. Suspected asbestosis by the 15 criteria that I set up was just exactly what it 16 said. Grade I after it would have been 17 ridiculous. I didn'.t pick it up. That's all it 18 is. It's not a typographical error. Well, it 19 is. The error is mine for not picking it up. 20 Q. Now, how do you know that the word 21 "suspected." isn't a typographical error and that 22 it should `read asbestosis Grade I? 23 A. " I would get a clue to that just 24 simply from reading what I said about the x-ray. 25 As on all previous occasions, previously renders A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 175 1 an interpretation of lower lung difficulty. 2 Vascular markings do appear fairly distinct. In 3 the absence of lack of distinction, in the absence 4 of blurring the vascular markings, I did not make 5 a diagnosis of asbestosis disease. 6 Q. But you told her that she had no 7 evidence, no evidence it says at the bottom, of 8 asbestosis disease. 9 A. In the light of hindsight making a 10 categorical statement like that, it was probably 11 not the right thing to do. But it was the best 12 effort I could make at the time. It was 13 consistent with what I told you a few moments 14 ago. If I had opened the door and said what's 15 this, and said things in such a way as this lady 16 would say, what's this fellow hiding from me? 17 Then it just seems I would have- shot myself in the 18 foot. 19 She didn't have any clear-cut 20 evidence of asbestosis disease that I thought at 21 the time. - 22 Q. You did tell me earlier that you 23 agreed with Dr. Pendergrass where he said that 24 when you can demonstrate x-ray evidence,of 25 asbestosis the disease is wel1-advanced. A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 176 1 A. That's what he said. 2 Q. You told me earlier you agreed with 3 that. 4 A. I may have said -- I may have 5 agreed with you. I may have been too obliging. 6 I'm not certain that I absolutely knew it was 7 well -advanced. 8 Let me put that in another way. 9 Dr. Pendergrass did not recognize the radiographic 10 changes that he could state categorically were 11 asbestosis until the disease was far advanced. 12 And it may be that that's what he meant by that 13 statement. I tried to push back to an early time 14 on the radiographic changes the point of 15 diagnosis. 16 Q. Well, with Lois Hurtt you also 17 didn't follow Dr. Knox's recommendation in his 18 January 20th, 1959 letter, Exhibit 3838, where he 19 says that if there's considerable suspicions - 20 underlying the word "suspicions" -- that fibrosis 21 of the lung may be present, further exposure to 22 dust is highly undesirable, did you, in Lois 23 Hurtt's case nor from what I understand was your 24 practice with the other workers? ^ 25 MR. FORMAN: I'm going to A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 177 1 object to form. I don't think he said 2 considerable -- 3 A. I think I answered your question 4 with my statement a few moments ago. I obviously 5 didn't think there was considerable enough 6 suspicion to make the diagnosis. If I had, I 7 would have stated it. 8 Q. (By Mr. McConnell) But Dr. Knox, 9 just for the record, doesn't refer to diagnosis, 10 he says suspicion that fibrosis is present. 11 A. Yes. I think I can also tell you 12 that somewhere else in Dr. Knox's writing is that 13 they didn't begin to suspect it until it was very, 14 very late, traditionally and customary. He also 15 said the pneumoconiosis panel in England were 16 very, very conservative and required pretty far 17 advanced information'on that patient on- which to 18 base the diagnosis. 19 So that when you are quoting me 20 there, you are not quoting the whole body of 21 information from which he's coming. 22 Q. But I'm quoting the information on 23 January 20th, 1959 he'sent to management at 24 Uniroyal. _ 25 A. Again, you are not quoting -- you A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 178 1 are quoting me one fish out of the lake. You are 2 not showing me the lake. 3 Q. I will be glad to show you the lake 4 that he sent to Uniroyal at the time to see if -- 5 I just want the record clear because there's no 6 smoke or mirrors or tricks here. There's nothing 7 in that letter that he sent to Uniroyal on January 8 20th, 1959 that counters that statement, is there? 9 A. That counters what statement? 10 Q. That when there is considerable 11 suspicion of fibrosis of the lung one should be 12 removed from dust exposure. 13 A. No. There's nothing in it; but 14 I've got to say to you that when they got 15 suspicious, they were like Kenneth Smith's x-rays 16 at Johns-Mansville, they were far advanced. For 17 them to be suspicious, they had to have- -- and his 18 x-rays also, Dr. Kenneth Smith's and Dr. John 19 Knox's x-rays of asbestosis early were what I 20 called late. 21 -.Q. Dr. Knox -- and I don't think we've 22 said it in'this deposition -- so the record's 23 clear was a medical consultant to Turner Brothers, 24 an asbestos company in England? _ 25 A. I think so. He was a medical A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 179 1 director. 2 Q. And Kenneth Smith was a medical 3 director for the Johns-Mansville, an asbestos 4 company in the United States? 5 A. Yeah. 6 Q. Do you know whether Dr. Pendergrass 7 had any connec ion with an asbestos company other 8 than to serve s a consultant to Uniroyal? 9 A. I don't know for a fact. I know 10 that he had ac 11 whether or not 12 company, I don 13 Q. If you give me one minute, I think 14 I'm about done, Doctor. 15 A. But for the record -- and I think 16 it's important to emphasize from my point of view 17 that the point in time of diagnosis for.Dr. John 18 Knox was at a point considerably later when they 19 were reasonably certain of asbestosis. As I said, 20 Dr. Knox showed me x-rays of reasonable certainty 21 of x-rays-that were far advanced from what I saw 22 for early asbestosis. 23 Q. Let me ask you this: Is your 24 philosophy about -- that you discussed about when 25 to tell the patient they had asbestosis or not to A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 180 1 tell the patient if they had asbestosis, is that 2 the same for any diagnosis that you've seen in 3 your general internist practice, or was that 4 special to people with asbestosis disease? 5 A. I might tell in my office somebody 6 who came in complaining of chest pain, I would 7 know that almost -- you work a lot, just as you 8 do, by intuition. I would know almost intuitively 9 that they were concerned about heart disease. I 10 would say, let's check this out. 11 There's a little bit of 12 difference. They knew between that and a Uniroyal patient, who many instances were my private "0k 13 14 patients -- unsolicited I might add. They knew I 15 was there looking for asbestosis disease. That 16 was the whole purpose of my being there; hoping 17 not to find it but looking for it. _ 18 With what I thought I knew at the 19 time when I learned how to diagnose it, the 20 purpose was to learn how to diagnose it as early 21 as possible and remove them. But the purpose 22 again was not to remove them until I had a 23 diagnosis. They knew what I was there for. 24 MR. MCCONNELL: I don'tjiave _ 2 5 anything further. Dr. Wells, thank A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 181 1 you. . 2 MR. FORMAN: I have just a 3 couple follow-up questions, Dr. Wells. 4 DIRECT EXAMINATION 5 BY MR. FORMAN: 6 Q. You were just asked about a letter 7 dated January 20th, 1959 from Dr. Knox to M r . 8 Sands. Can you find that. 9 A. On January 20th? 10 Q. Yes, sir, 1959. 11 A. Yes, sir. A***s.t 12 Q. I believe that was marked to be 13 Plaintiff's Exhibit 3838, and you were asked about 14 the statement if there is considerable suspicion 15 that fibrosis of the lung may be present, further 16 exposure to dust is highly undesirable. 17 Now, let me ask you to trurn to the 18 end of the letter, if you will, please, to Page 3; 19 and look in the last paragraph. And did Dr. Knox 20 also report with respect to the opinions of Dr. 21 Pendergrasfs and an x-ray diagnosis of asbestosis 22 that with regard to the radiologic classification 23 of asbestosis I should include only two states, 24 asbestosis moderately advanced and asbestosis 25 markedly advanced. Do you see that? A. WILLIAM ROBERT3, JR., & ASSOCIATES 182 1 A. Yes, I see that. 2 Q. And does he also further say, I 3 feel certain that the roentgenographic diagnosis 4 of the clinically early stage of asbestosis is not 5 entirely reliable. His recent pronouncements on 6 this subject suggest that his views have not 7 altered significantly from this. When we are 8 considering the early case, I think that is a most 9 important matter to bear in mind. In fact, I 10 occasionally find radiological appearances and new 11 entrance to the industry subjective of early 12 asbestosis, although they have never been 13 exposed. Did he also report that. Dr. Wells? 14 A. Did Dr. Knox report that? 15 Q. Yes. 16 A. Yes. He said that; and essentially 17 in paraphrase he said to me, as I attempted to say 18 earlier that -- and as he showed me, his 19 diagnostic entry was at a stage that was pretty 20 far advanced in comparison with ours. And again I 21 say I made comment of this to Mr. Link, and I vt 22 think I've got something in here that says so, 23 that both he and Kenneth Smith, John Knox and 24 Kenneth Smith, showed me x-rays of early 25 asbestosis which were comparable to what we A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 18 3 1 diagnosed as late asbestosis. 2 So when we say -- when you quote 3 what he says about suspicion of fibrosis, when 4 they're talking about suspicion of fibrosis, 5 they've got pretty good evidence that patient, in 6 fact, has got fibrosis because the x-ray -- if we 7 had waited on the Uniroyal patients to develop the 8 changes that they had that they determined as 9 earlier, then I think everybody would have been 10 comfortable. I'm sure they would have been. 11 Q. Dr. Wells, did you try to find a 12 way to diagnose asbestosis as early as you 13 possibly could in the patients? 14 A. Yes, I did. 15 Q. Was there ever a time in your 16 experience at the Uniroyal plant when you ever 17 intentionally withheld telling a patien-t they had 18 a diagnosis if you believed they did? 19 A. No, absolutely not. 20 Q. Was there ever an occasion when 21 anyone at-bhe plant, any official, ever asked you 22 to withhold making the diagnosis? 23 A. Absolutely not. 24 Q. Or to withhold telling ^ patient 25 that they had a diagnosis of asbestosis - A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 184 1 A. NO. 2 Q. - - i f you had made a diagnosis? 3 A. N o . 4 Q. Were you ever asked to shade any 5 finding you made in any way of a patient in favor 6 of the company when you made these examinations? 7 A. I wasn't; not in any way, form, or 8 fashion. 9 Q. Did the plant ever refuse to give 10 you any equipment that you asked for to carry out 11 your examinations? 12 A. They not only didn't refuse, I felt 13 a little bit reluctant to ask them for everything 14 I wanted; and I bought some of it myself. 15 Q. Did anyone at the plant ever 16 suggest to you that you should not publish any of 17 the findings that you made at the plant-? 18 A. N o . 19 ' Q. Did they indicate to you whether 20 they would ever have any objection to your 21 publishing any of your findings? 22 A. N o . 23 Q. And did you indicate to them that 24 you wanted to publish the findings? ,, 25 A. I had indicated that to them on A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 185 1 more than one occasion. 2 Q. And was there ever any objection 3 raised to that? 4 A. N o . 5 Q. Was there ever an occasion, Dr. 6 Wells, in which you used anything other than your 7 best absolute good-faith clinical judgment in 8 determining whether a patient had asbestosis? 9 A. I could not tell you a specific 10 occasion. 11 Q. Was there any instances you found 12 in your dealing with any of the officials of the 13 plant where you felt they ever acted in anything 14 other than in good faith with respect to the 15 workers at the plant? 16 A. No. I thought they were open and 17 aboveboard with me throughout the entirety of my 18 dealings with them. Mr. Link and his successor - 19 although I did not cover the successors as 20 intimately as I did with Mr. Link, but I thought 21 they were*'all open and aboveboard with me. 22 They didn't discuss with me the 23 business side of the process. I didn't bring it 24 up with them. It wasn't what I considered my 25 purview, but they did answer any questions that I A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 18 6 1 asked them; and they supplied as much help to me 2 as I felt I could receive. 3 Q. Did you ever have any experience, 4 Dr. Wells, of examining a patient and having a 5 question of whether there was asbestosis present 6 and later examination concluded that, in fact, it 7 was not present? 8 A. Yes, sir. I can't -- again, I 9 cannot quote you specific a reference at this 10 time; but I can clearly recall the chart of one 11 individual who had had a diagnosis of asbestosis 12 suspected at a particular date wherein I said in 13 my notes at a subsequent date on review of 14 everything available, I just simply had revised my 15 opinion this patient does not have asbestosis 16 disease. 17 Q. Are you aware of any instance in 18 your dealings with the company in which, to your 19 knowledge, the company ever deliberately failed to 20 advise any employee of a diagnosis of asbestosis 21 and of th information that was available? 22 A. No. Every patient that -- on whom 23 I made the diagnosis, I personally saw. There was 24 never any equivocation or questioning that they 25 wouldn't b e . A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 187 1 Q. And were you ever asked not to tell 2 a patient you had made a diagnosis? 3 A. No. 4 Q. You need to speak up for the 5 record. 6 A. Never. 7 Q. Did you come to know the men at the 8 plant that you talked about today, like Mr. Link 9 and Mr. Alexander, Mr. Austin, Mr. Fort, people 10 like that? 11 A. Did I come to know them? 12 Q. Yes . Did you have occasion to see 13 them a number of times over the years that you 14 were there? 15 A. Y es, I did. 16 Q. And do you think you had enough 17 contact with them to' determine whether-they were 18 dealing in good faith with you there? 19 A. I felt that they always - 20 MR. MCCONNELL: I'm going to 21 object to the form of the question, but 22 go ahead. 23 A. Well, irn essence I think I had 24 answered that question early on by saying I 25 thought they were men of high character and A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 18 8 1 integrity. I never had any doubt. 2 MR. FORMAN: That's all I have. 3 RECROSS -EXAMINATION 4 BY MR. MCCONNELL: 5 Q. As far as you knew, Doctor? 6 A. As far I knew. 7 Q. Let me ask you this: Were you ever 8 consulted in the 19 -- late 1950s by anyone at 9 Uniroyal where they attempted to devise a cost -- 10 the cost per pound of cloth for exposing their 11 workers to asbestosis? 12 A. No, sir. 13 Q. And as to the 1959 letter that you 14 said was sent to the employees, you thought -- you 15 believed it was delivered to their homes, the July 16 '59 letter? 17 A. I believe it was deliver-ed to their 18 homes, yes. 19 Q. Were you shown a copy of that 20 letter for input prior to being sent out? 21 -A. No, sir. I was not shown a copy. 22 I did not participate in the production of that 23 letter. 24 MR. MCCONNELL: Thank yQU. 25 MR. FORMAN: Just one follow-up on A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 189 1 that. 2 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 3 BY MR. FORMAN: 4 Q. Dr. Wells, did any officials at the 5 plant ever complain to you about the cost of 6 occupational disease at the plant with respect to 7 diagnosing the cases of asbestosis that you made? 8 A. No, they did not. 9 Q. In other words, did they ever say 10 anything like, well, you are costing us money by 11 making a diagnosis of asbestosis? ""V. 12 13 A. No, sir. Q. Did they ever complain to you in 14 any way about making a diagnosis? 15 A. They did not. 16 MR. MCCONNELL: I'm also done, 17 Dr. Wells. Let*me just state for the 18 record that you have been kind enough to 19. provide us with tremendous amounts of 20 paper this morning in response to a 21 notice that I know you just received in 22 the last day or two. So rather than 23 conclude the deposition, I'm going to 24 reserve my right to have the pleasure of 25 questioning you again -- I won't assume A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 19 0 1 anything -- after we have a chance.to 2 get copies of these that your personal 3 attorney has been so kind to agree to 4 make copies for us or have copies made. 5 So I just want the record to reflect 6 that at end of your deposition, and I 7 want to thank you for your time. I sure 8 appreciate it. 9 MR. FORMAN: Let me state for 10 the record we do not agree to hold the 11 deposition open. Any questions you want 12 to ask of Dr. Wells can be asked at this 13 time, and we don't want to impose any 14 further imposition on him by asking him 15 to reappear for another deposition. 16 MR. MCCONNELL: Just so the 17 record's clear, I have not had the- 18 chance -- and I think folks can probably 19 testify to this -- to in any way, shape, 20 or form even look at let alone study the 21 volumes of documents that you've 22 produced today; and that was my reason 23 for holding it, not for anything that I 24 could have asked you prior to that, 25 time. But I'm sure we will battle that A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES at a future time before different . people; and again, I thank you, Doctor, for your time and thank your attorneys for that time. (A discussion ensued off the record.) MR. MCCONNELL: The exhibits 1 through 18 are not being attached to this deposition but will be sent to both counsel for Uniroyal. MR. FORMAN: That's fine. MR. MCCONNELL: And counsel for plaintiffs as soon as Dr. Wells' personal counsel can have the copies made. MR. BUICE: Except Exhibit 11. MR. MCCONNELL: Dr. Wells just said he would like to read and sign the deposition if that's procedure in Georgia. * MR. BUICE: Very good. (Deposition concluded at 4:00 p.m.) A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 192 1 2 3 CERTIFICATE 4 5 STATE OF GEORGIA: 6 COUNTY OF FULTON: 7 I hereby certify that the foregoing 8 transcript was taken down, as stated in 9 the caption, and the questions and answers 10 thereto were reduced to typewriting under 11 my direction; that the foregoing pages 1 12 through 191 represent a true, complete, and 13 correct transcript of the evidence given 14 upon said hearing, and I further certify 15 that I am not of kin or counsel to the 16 parties in the case; am not in the regular 17 employ of counsel for any of said parties; 18 nor am I in anywise interested in the resul t 19 of said case. 20 This, the 14th day of April 1993. 21 22 23 DANETTE L. HOLBROOK, CCR-B-1355 My commission expires on the 24 26th day of November 1993. 25 A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 19 3 1 DEPOSITION OF DR. JOHN G. WELLS/DLH I do hereby certify that I have read all 2 questions propounded to me and all answers given by me on April 13, 1993, taken before 3 Danette L. Holbrook, and that: 4 ____ 1) There are no changes noted. _ _ _ 2) The following changes are noted: 5 Pursuant to Rule 30 (7)(e) of the Federal 6 Rules of Civil Procedure and/or the Official Code of Georgia Annotated 9-ll-30(e), both of which 7 read in part: Any changes in form or substance which you desire to make shall be entered upon the 8 deposition...with a statement of the reasons given...for making them. Accordingly, to assist 9 you in effecting corrections, please use the form below: 10 Page No.___ Line No.__ should read: 11 12 And the reason for the change is: 13 ___________________________________ 14 Page No. Line No. should read : - 15 16 And the reason for the change is : 17 18 Page No. 19 Line No. should read : 20 And the reason for the change is : 21 22 Page No. ___ Line No.__ should read : 23 24 And the reason for the change is : - 25 A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 19 4 1 Page No.___ Line No.__ should read : 2 3 DEPOSITION OF DR. JOHN G. WELLS/DLH 4 And the reason for the change is: 5 Page No. 6 Line No. should read: 7 And the reason for the change is: 8 9 Page No. 10 Line No. should read : 11 And the reason for the change is : 12 13 Page No. 14 Line No. should read : 15 And the reason for the change is : 16 17 Page No. 18 Line No. should read : 19 And the reason for the change is : 20 21 Pace No. 22 Line No. should read : 23 "* And the reason for the change is : 24 25 Page No. Line No. should read : A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., Se ASSOCIATES 19 5 1___ _______________ ___________________________________ 2___ ________________ _________________________________ And the reason for the change is:_____________ 3 ______________ _________________________________ 4 Page No.___ Line No.__ should read: 5 _________________________________________________ 6 IZ Z IZ Z IIIZ Z Z Z Z Z IZ Z Z Z IZ Z Z Z I^ IZ Z Z I 7 8 9 10 11 12 s 13 14 15 16 17 . 18 19 20 21 . 2 2 * -- 23 * . 24 25 ' A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 196 1 DEPOSITION OF DR. JOHN G. WELLS/DLH And the reason for the change is : 2 3 Page No. Line No. should read : 4 5 And the reason for the change is : 6-- 7 Page No. Line No. should read : 8 9 And the reason for the change is: 10 -- 11 Page No. Line No. should read : 12 13 And the reason for the change is : 14 -- 15 Page No. Line No. should read : 16 17 And the reason for the change is : 18 -- 19 Page No. Line No. should read: 20 21 And the reason for the change is : 22 -- 23 Page No. Line No. should read : 24 25 And the reason for the change is : A . WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 19 7 1 _ 2 Page No.___ Line No.__ should read: 3 Z Z = Z Z Z Z ^ = = Z Z Z I= IZ Z Z Z Z 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 * 18 19 20 21 .. 2 2 2 3 " . 24 25 A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 19 8 1 DEPOSITION OF DR. JOHN G. WELLS/DLH And the reason for the change is : 2 3 Page No. Line N o . should read : 4 5 And the reason for the change is : 6 7 If supplemental or additional pages are necessary, 8 please furnish same in typewriting annexed to this deposition. 9 10 DR. JOHN G. WELLS 11 Sworn to and subscribed before me, this the ___ day of ______ 1993 . 12 13 Notary Public. My commission expires: 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. WILLIAM ROBERTS J R . , & ASSOCIATES  1 1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF JACKSON COUNTY STATE OF MISSISSIPPI 2 3 4 IN RE: 5 ASBESTOS PERSONAL INJURY CASES ABRAMS NOS. 6 88-5422(2), 89-5088(2), 89-5121(2), 90-5247 (2) , 88- 5420(2), 89-5252(2), 90-5069(2), 90-5322 (2) , 7 89- 5153(2), 90-5352(2), 89-5268(2), 90- 5045 (2) , 90- 5274(2), 88-5181(2), 91-5187(2), 91-5098 (2) , 8 91- 5000(2), 90-5387(2), 91-5119(2), 90-5369 (2) , 91-5135(2), AND 91-5178(2). 9 10 CORRECTIONS ONLY 11 DEPOSITION OF 12 DR. JOHN G. WELLS 13 14 15 April 13, 1993 16 10:00 a.m. 17 18 100 Wagon Yard Plaza 19 Carrollton, Georgia 20 21 Danette L. Holbrook, CCR-B-1355 22 23 24 25 A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 193 1 DEPOSITION OF DR. JOHN G. WELLS/DLH I do hereby certify that I have read all 2 questions propounded to me and all answers given by me on April 13, 1993, taken before 3 Danette L. Holbrook, and that: 4 ____ 1) There are no changes noted. /_2) The following changes are noted: 5 Pursuant to Rule 30 (7)(e) of the Federal 6 Rules of Civil Procedure and/or the Official Code of Georgia Annotated 9-11-30(e), both of which 7 read in part: Any changes in form or substance which you desire to make shall be entered upon the 8 deposition... with a statement of the reasons given...for making them. Accordingly, to assist 9 you in effecting corrections, please use. the form below: 10 Page No .JV J ine No should read: 11 12 And the reason for the change is: f*&**tna*i^__________ 13 14 Page N o . ^ _ Line No.ii_ should read: 15 JUf\ LftNzti----------------------------- 16 And the reason for the change is 17 18 Page No.^_ Line Noi;_ should read: 19 r^/tsA/rf A/&.*_______________________ 20 And the reason for the change i s : 21 22 Page No .3 Line No. should read: 23 ~ UJUAtlA LiAttZ rOXWAtu________________ 24 And the reason for the change is 25 ii7icL A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 194 1 Page N o .6 Line No 2 ___ j(SLL*7jj'.d ^ TAc^J should read 3 DEPOSITION OF DR. JOHN G. WELLS/DLH . 4 And the reason for the change i s : 5 Page N o .ql Line No.^L_ should read: 6 ** 7 And the reason for the change is cumof 8 9 Page No .7H Line No./*-*r should read: 10 ^ __________ _________________________ 11 And the reason for the change is: 12 13 Page No.i^_ Line. No._ should read: 14 Vc^7/ <^uttXd SbXlsHs-CcXf~_____ 15 And the reason for the change IS 16 17 Page N o .H Line No._i_ should read: 18 19 And the reason for the change is : 20 21 Page N o .<2o Line No.Z__ should read: 22 rtd jjc irtVC, i+ jjh f id __________________ 23 And the reason for the change is 24 25 Page No ./Vfl Line No.2_ should read: A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 195 1 2 And the reason for the change is 3 4 Page No .flC> Line No .*-7 should read: 5~ Y f** *+/*-*ouU, srvi/+i'i/v**\ aHo -e ~i*eAo'oo**!' 6 OUA-CJ ____________________________ 7 /lZJ-VH/ - 0*1a*t<^oAk//o ^tM^ZcI^O 8 9 * /?7 U*n^ * jhi-L*-$C /kJUiC/ Q 10 -Cjfr / ^ ^^^*0*4- 11 12 /QG-^tr *i~l 'SCm **0c 13 0 ttAi/cj <4 ^i^cLO^nx 14 f\+, &*U, V 15 xAvC h*uu/ /a^Myt^ice, 16 /&LQA*+Ks - ow/ OAHyZc^O 17 't.n ? /t*to l 4Lutaci AL-cl- <~I^U<ujf 18 - Cr//u^j 19 ^ncldlc/ ~ 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 196 1 DEPOSITION OF DR. JOHN G. WELLS/DLH And the reason for the change is : 2 3 Page No. Line No. should read : 4 5 And the reason for the change is : 6 1 Page No. Line No. should read : 8 9 And the reason for the change is : 10 11 Page N o . Line No. should read : 12 13 And the reason for the change is : 14 15 Pacre No. Line No. should read : 16 17 And the reason for the change is : 18 19 Page No. Line No. should read : 20 21 And the reason for the change is : 22 23 Paae No. Line No. should read : 24 - 25 And the reason for the change is : A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES 197 1 2 Page No.___ Line No.__ should read: 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR & ASSOCIATES 198 1 DEPOSITION OF DR. JOHN G. WELLS/DLH And the reason for the change is : 2 3 Page No. Line No. should read : 4 5 And the reason for the change is : 6 7 If supplemental or additional pages are necessary, 8 please furnish same in typewriting annexed to this deposition. 9 10 C-- crfe. JOHN G. WELLS 11 Sworn to and subscribed before me, this the C*~ day of 1993. 12 ijjL fi 13 Notary Public. My commission expires MYCOMMISSIONEXPIRESFEBRUARYIS,19. - - ^ 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 IHDW(If\ 22 Y 1 0 893 23 y) 24 25 A. WILLIAM ROBERTS, JR., & ASSOCIATES